# Could you please help me identify the name of this ship type?



## karsten00 (Jan 6, 2015)

I tried to identify it but wasn't sure. Too small to be a windjammer, I suppose.


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## Boatman25 (May 17, 2010)

Looks like a 3 masted frigate to me - you can see the gun ports


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## Basil (Feb 4, 2006)

Someone's gone in for ancient symbology just a bit.
Wheelbarrow on the main tops'l ??

Just looked up The Judgement of Paris.
Guy (Paris) has to decide which of three women is the best looking; fraught enough with any ladies BUT this lot are Goddesses.
Ends in tears, of course.


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## karsten00 (Jan 6, 2015)

Boatman25 said:


> Looks like a 3 masted frigate to me - you can see the gun ports


Thank you so much! I knew that this was the right place to come, to ask this question. Really appreciate it.

As for the symbolism on the sails, the image is an ad for a new youth-oriented Church campaign from the Mormons, so I imagine that the images on the sails likely have a meaning that is specific to that faith.

Here's the original ad, with the text included:

http://www.judgmentofparis.com/gallery/2015-01-00-new-era-eng-41a.jpg


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## trotterdotpom (Apr 29, 2005)

karsten00 said:


> I tried to identify it but wasn't sure. Too small to be a windjammer, I suppose.....
> 
> I thought "windjammer" was another name for a butt plug.
> 
> John T


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## stein (Nov 4, 2006)

A wind-jammer was once of course an epithet for one of those flat bottomed, bluff bowed big droghers who could not move unless pushing half the world's oceans ahead of it, dragging the other half along after it, and in the course of this jamming all there was of wind. That it later on came to mean something like a square-rigger, or even a clipper, would not have been understood by those who made a living setting and reducing sail.

So what does that Greek myth mean to the Mormons: a choice of wives every evening?


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## TOM ALEXANDER (Dec 24, 2008)

Nice picture -- I think I can just make out an upper yard on the mizzen which would make it officially a ship. I also think that the yards should be squared more to the apparent wind as depicted by the main mast pennant. The sea state is a bit confusing to ascertain the apparent wind direction also. Best guess of time is somewhere around the mid to late 18th century - 1750 - 1790?? Like I said --- Nice picture.


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## cueball44 (Feb 15, 2010)

karsten00 said:


> Thank you so much! I knew that this was the right place to come, to ask this question. Really appreciate it.
> 
> As for the symbolism on the sails, the image is an ad for a new youth-oriented Church campaign from the Mormons, so I imagine that the images on the sails likely have a meaning that is specific to that faith.
> 
> ...


This image is an illustration by David Stoker. I tried many times to find the name of the vessel to no avail. I think it resembles a BRIG.


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## stein (Nov 4, 2006)

No, it doesn't - a brig has only two masts. Being a bit generous one could say that this ship has four, inasmuch as she carries a spritsail topmast on the bowsprit, something that had long disappeared when ships had that sort of hull with those kind of quarter galleries. So she resembles a fantasy ship.


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## cueball44 (Feb 15, 2010)

I am sure it is the vessel "SHTANDART". A Frigate.


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## stein (Nov 4, 2006)

Here's one Shtandart that looks like she could carry a spritsail topmast. Though she could be even narrower and taller aft. Being as she should sail though, she does have to be seaworthy, and a few compromises will have to be made. A silhouette/sail plan a bit down on this page is probably about right: http://www.shtandart.ru/en/frigate/history/original/ I have a book on Columbus' ships btw, with a great number of replicas - and they have undergone serious change during the last two hundred years.


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## cueball44 (Feb 15, 2010)

stein said:


> Here's one Shtandart that looks like she could carry a spritsail topmast. Though she could be even narrower and taller aft. Being as she should sail though, she does have to be seaworthy, and a few compromises will have to be made.


Just GOOGLE ship "sthandart images". I am sure you will agree that it is the vessel in the illustration. Even down to the figure head.


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## stein (Nov 4, 2006)

cueball44 said:


> Just GOOGLE ship "sthandart images". I am sure you will agree that it is the vessel in the illustration. Even down to the figure head.


Oh, I never meant to dispute that, that the ship in the painting might be meant to represent a ship meant to represent a historical one, even though I still insist on putting the H before the T. I am just practicing a little pride and prejudice in view of me having said that the details were not perfectly aligned in time. (==D)


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## cueball44 (Feb 15, 2010)

stein said:


> Oh, I never meant to dispute that, that the ship in the painting might be meant to represent a ship meant to represent a historical one, even though I still insist on putting the H before the T. I am just practicing a little pride and prejudice in view of me having said that the details were not perfectly aligned in time. (==D)


I have the feeling that the illustration by David Stoker had been touched up with those symbols on the sails, and the colour of the pennant and flag. The religious reference was not on the first image. Do you think he was trying to get us interested in the Mormons ?. And no where can I find a photo of that image amongst the "SHTANDART" ones.


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## duquesa (Aug 31, 2006)

*Could you please help me identify the name of this ship type*

It is absolutely typical of a corsair or privateer circa 1780's. Certainly may be a "fantasy" but that is the background. I have just completed the total renovation of a 3ft model of a French craft of this type.
Lots of sail and pretty fast.


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## Bill Morrison (May 25, 2013)

Hi Karsten, I have had a look through my Sailing Ships and Their Story by E Keble Chatterton and the nearest I can find is the one in this attachment.


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## cueball44 (Feb 15, 2010)

Frigate Shtandart. 300 hundred years ago, upon the order from Tzar Peter and Governor Menshikov, began the construction of the first Russian ships for the new Russian Navy in which Shtandart became the Flag Ship.


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## TOM ALEXANDER (Dec 24, 2008)

stein said:


> No, it doesn't - a brig has only two masts. Being a bit generous one could say that this ship has four, inasmuch as she carries a spritsail topmast on the bowsprit, something that had long disappeared when ships had that sort of hull with those kind of quarter galleries. So she resembles a fantasy ship.


I almost agree about the fantasy, although in retrospect the original picture does resemble the Russian "Sthandart" project of a reproduction. On closer inspection the one outstanding feature perhaps is the lateen sail on the mizzen, rather then the spanker.


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