# Stud Boxes.



## Ron Dean (Aug 11, 2010)

No, not the boxes in which to keep shirt collar studs, but Engineering Stud Boxes.
The ones used to fix a stud (studbolt), into a (usually blind) tapped hole.
Instead of using two nuts locked together to tighten the studbolt, then releasing the two nuts, you would use a "Stud Box".
As an apprentice in the 1950's, one of my first jobs was to make a selection of Stud Boxes.
These were made by drilling & tapping a short length of hex. bar with a blind hole. A small plug of copper would then be fed into the bottom of the blind hole.
When the stud was fitted & tightened, the Stud Box would be easily removed and the stud itself would remain tightened in the hole down to the plain portion of the stud.
A torque spanner was used to ensure the stud was the correct tight fit in the hole. (we didn't use loctite or pneumatic tools to drive in the studs in those days).
I still have a set in my toolbox, 3/8 - 3/4 inch (BSW & UNC).
Does anyone else have any of these antique artefacts - if so, when did you last use them?

Ron.


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## Shandy (Aug 6, 2008)

I have a centre finder for round bar, adjustable tap wrenches and a surface gauge all still in good condition from the early sixties.


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## chadburn (Jun 2, 2008)

Not forgetting to cut the pressure release groove in the stud before screwing the stud into the casting Ron. I still have my ex Govt surplus hockey stick bearing scraper in the canvas sheath I sewed together with Palm and needle.
Various marking off tools including 'odd legs'(Jester)
Never used them for over 20yrs


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## Ron Dean (Aug 11, 2010)

chadburn said:


> Not forgetting to cut the pressure release groove in the stud before screwing the stud into the casting Ron. I still have my ex Govt surplus hockey stick bearing scraper in the canvas sheath I sewed together with Palm and needle.
> Various marking off tools including 'odd legs'(Jester)
> Never used them for over 20yrs


Ah yes, bearing scrapers - I still have half a dozen - spoon ended, penny ended & various curved ones - all made from old files.
I'm still using them occasionally for taking off sharp edges where draw filing would be a bit drastic. Pointed ended ones I use to put a slight chamfer on drilled holes and I've found they're much better than a Stanley knife or a file, when used on upvc door or window frames, where a shaving needs to be taken off when expansion has occurred due to hot sunny conditions.
As an aside, when I served my time, a fellow apprentice was very lucky not to lose an eye, when he decided to make a centre punch out of a round file. (Ouch)

Ron.


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## Steve Hodges (Feb 12, 2007)

On one trip the Stud Box was what we used to call one Junior Engineer's cabin - I'm saying no more.....


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## Ron Dean (Aug 11, 2010)

Steve Hodges said:


> On one trip the Stud Box was what we used to call one Junior Engineer's cabin - I'm saying no more.....


Well I guess on that trip, the Stud Box was also where the Golden Rivet was kept. (Thumb)

Ron.


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## A.D.FROST (Sep 1, 2008)

The stud box we made was drilled all the way through with a bolt in one end so you could get it off after.Still got my vice grip, 'V' blocks, stud extractor,scriber and centre pop(all home made)


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## Ron Dean (Aug 11, 2010)

A.D.FROST said:


> The stud box we made was drilled all the way through with a bolt in one end so you could get it off after.Still got my vice grip, 'V' blocks, stud extractor,scriber and centre pop(all home made)


Yes - I do remember the ones you describe. The ones I made were in the first few weeks of my apprenticeship and I think it was really a set exercise to drill & tap a blind hole.

Ron.


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## chadburn (Jun 2, 2008)

Ron Dean said:


> Yes - I do remember the ones you describe. The ones I made were in the first few weeks of my apprenticeship and I think it was really a set exercise to drill & tap a blind hole.
> 
> Ron.


Without snapping the Tap on the smaller sizes(Jester)


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## Ron Dean (Aug 11, 2010)

chadburn said:


> Without snapping the Tap on the smaller sizes(Jester)


I'm glad you posted that Geordie Chief - it must have jogged a brain cell.
The tradesman I was working for at the time, told me the purpose of the task I was given was to develope a "Fitters Feel".
Mmmm... I've just mentioned it to my wife who reckons I've still got it. B\)

Ron.


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## chadburn (Jun 2, 2008)

Very true Ron, there were numerous tasks that required that "Feel'-------------in Engineering terms of course!!!!


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## AlbieR (May 18, 2007)

Surprised nobody has mentioned the Zeus Tables, the fitter turners Bible. Still have my original that I bought in January 1964 at the start of my apprenticeship, well used and still in use today, albeit retired the same as myself.

AlbieR


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## actingjunior (Dec 10, 2008)

I've still got my 1965 Bahco shifter in the left leg pocket of my boiler suit and a wheel key in the right leg pocket, because, if I take the wheel key out I fall over to the left. Can anyone figure this out ?


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## Jim Harris (Mar 16, 2008)

We had a pre-apprentice trade school in Edinburgh, where we made everything from callipers to a small bench vice.

Still have 'em all!!

Regards,

Jim.


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## chadburn (Jun 2, 2008)

actingjunior said:


> I've still got my 1965 Bahco shifter in the left leg pocket of my boiler suit and a wheel key in the right leg pocket, because, if I take the wheel key out I fall over to the left. Can anyone figure this out ?


You need to move your 'Tackle' from the normal left side position over to the right to compensate(Jester)


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## ART6 (Sep 14, 2010)

A.D.FROST said:


> The stud box we made was drilled all the way through with a bolt in one end so you could get it off after.Still got my vice grip, 'V' blocks, stud extractor,scriber and centre pop(all home made)


I still have my stud boxes as you describe, made by me during my apprenticeship although they are of limited use nowadays as they are all in Whitworth threads. Not a big deal though, since it's easy to make another one with this new-fangled metric thread. I also have in my workshop centre finders, inside and outside calipers, tee squares, that I was pressurised into crafting from steel in my technical school at the advanced age of thirteen, and I still use them regularly XXX years later. A few of them traveled the world with me.

There were other tools that came later, and had to be crafted to meet a particular application. Like a set of hand made cranked screwdrivers to be able to deal with Bailey meters adjustments when I was sailing as 3/E on steamships. 

But in my limited universe the obsession with tools goes further. My grandfather was a master craftsman, and around a hundred and ten years ago he built a large bookcase out of solid English oak. The front window of that bookcase is stained glass from an abandoned medieval church in rural England. It portrays a medieval knight and his lady, and I have researched them so that when I look at their images on the glass I can almost feel that I can communicate with them. I still have the tools that my grandfather used to craft that bookcase, although with modern developments I (sadly) don't use them. I still have that bookcase, and it is a family heirloom. 

Over the years I have used it to stress to my now grown children that they must always preserve their tools, whether they are physical or intellectual, and never simply discard them as of no further value. As a much respected chief engineer said to me on my first trip, "Never discard anything, tool or a bit of scrap. It might save your life one day!"

Possibly that is why my attic is pressing my house into the ground and access to my workshop is becoming difficult!


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## A.D.FROST (Sep 1, 2008)

ART6 said:


> I still have my stud boxes as you describe, made by me during my apprenticeship although they are of limited use nowadays as they are all in Whitworth threads. Not a big deal though, since it's easy to make another one with this new-fangled metric thread. I also have in my workshop centre finders, inside and outside calipers, tee squares, that I was pressurised into crafting from steel in my technical school at the advanced age of thirteen, and I still use them regularly XXX years later. A few of them traveled the world with me.
> 
> There were other tools that came later, and had to be crafted to meet a particular application. Like a set of hand made cranked screwdrivers to be able to deal with Bailey meters adjustments when I was sailing as 3/E on steamships.
> 
> ...


Sailed on a ship that was carrying scrap.There was more ended up down the ER than No.1Hatch and a ME that should have been down No.1 Hatch(Doxford)(Jester)


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## Tony Cook (Feb 27, 2014)

I served a 5 year apprenticeship in the 50's proberbly like many of you guy's, and made all the usual, stud boxes, calipers, knives etc, etc. some of which I still have and am proud of having lasted that long.
It's not supprising that many things are nowhere near as good as they were, when an apprentice can complete a trade in less than 2 years. Got me stuffed.


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## ART6 (Sep 14, 2010)

Tony Cook said:


> I served a 5 year apprenticeship in the 50's proberbly like many of you guy's, and made all the usual, stud boxes, calipers, knives etc, etc. some of which I still have and am proud of having lasted that long.
> It's not supprising that many things are nowhere near as good as they were, when an apprentice can complete a trade in less than 2 years. Got me stuffed.


I recall, still with some unease, a test where one was issued with a piece of (I think something like) 1/4 inch steel plate and a length of 2 inch round bar about 3 inches long (no EU metrics then). The idea was that one had to first carve a round hole, a square hole, and a triangular hole in the plate, and then cut the round bar so that it would fit neatly into each of the holes in the plate, using hand tools. Dear God, that took forever! Once completed the supervisor would admit the bar stock to each of the holes, through which it was expected to pass through with no more than finger pressure.

The first time I faced that was in technical school at the advanced age of fifteen, but only after I had first made the calipers, scribers, etc. that permitted me to even mark out that eternally damned plate! 

Later, during my apprenticeship in the Glasgow shipyard, I signed up for a night school arc welding class run by foreman welders from the yard. There I learned to weld "blind" with no mask and running a fillet and a seam behind my back. These guys were TRADESMEN, and they were unforgiving. If the weld **** didn't peel off the weld as it cooled, then we all had to labour into the night until it did. Chipping hammers and wire brushes were forbidden!

Many years later, approaching retirement, I worked for a while for an American-owned company here in Ireland. After a career in management I found myself back on the tools, because I somehow wanted to be. I wanted to be a tradesman again for a while.

The company used a lot of lifting equipment that had to PL tested, and they had it made by a local firm. One day a new set was delivered, and it was rubbish. The boss asked my opinion, and I said that the welds would never pass inspection. The upshot was that he asked if I could fabricate them, so I set about it, carving 30mm steel plate, cutting it with an oxy-acetylene cutter that I built using a 12v battery drill, and welding it before sending it off for the PLTs. Generally it took two days before the equipment was returned, because all of the welds had to be checked.

Then, to my bewilderment, the things I had made started to come back the same day. I called the testers to ask why, and the answer to my astonishment was "We don't check your company's weld any longer because they are always spot on. We just stick 'em on the test rig." I could still do that after years of management, when I thought that I had lost the skills that the shipyard taught me.

That is the real value of apprenticeships. Its purpose is to train craftsmen. I would not pretend to be one of them, but with all of the obsession with degrees and other advanced qualifications, who is going to pass the basic test of manual skill? Who is going to make the things that those of advanced education design? Robots? Who is going to reach management without understanding from personal experience what is involved in making that widget? Why even should they? 

It stood me in damned good stead over the years, because as I progressed in management and even to board level in a plc I still never lost touch with how the shop floor worker thought. I didn't say "I can do this as well as you can." because that was no longer my role. I didn't have to demonstrate that I could weld as well as one of our fabricators could, because my role became to facilitate them and not to humiliate them.

Perhaps this is where our Western society has gone off track. There are people who have manual skills that can be cultivated, and there are those who have mental skills that can also be cultivated. It doesn't make one superior to the other. It just demonstrates that they are both interdependent. No-one would seriously suggest that PhD could be obtained in two years, so why suggest that a craftsman could be trained in that time?


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