# Scrubbers



## alaric

You may have noticed in the Marine Press that there is currently a lot of interest in fitting Exhaust Gas Scrubbers.
This is because the current 3.5% Sulphur content allowed in HFO is due to be reduced to 0.5% on 1st January 2020 unless scrubbers are fitted. Cost of installing scrubbers to existing ships is high, but a lot less than converting to LNG.
I have no knowledge of modern scrubbers but remember (with some dread) the Howden hydro-cyclone scrubbers fitted to the Foster Wheeler Controlled Superheat boilers in 5 of Shaw Savill’s big IC’s built in the 1940s.
When working well these devices worked really well, which was clearly seen by the colour of the water O/B discharge, particularly when sootblowing was in progress.
However, it was a different matter when one of the cyclone drains blocked. A stream of black water cascaded down from the funnel to the boileroom tanktops accompanied by a strong smell of rotten eggs. A big effort was required to clear up the resulting mess. Consequently, the equipment was not used as much as it should have been.
Any tales of new or old scrubbers?


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## seaman38

alaric said:


> Any tales of new or old scrubbers?


Sorry, I'm a gentleman, I couldn't possibly comment upon past dalliances (Eats)


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## Samsette

seaman38 said:


> Sorry, I'm a gentleman, I couldn't possibly comment upon past dalliances (Eats)


"Change yer water girls, its tente."

The cry heard aboard any number of the big liners having the finishing touches applied after refit for peacetime passenger service. Not the ones seaman38 would have dallied with. I guess we shall never find out, him being a gentleman and all.(Smoke)


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## willincity

Trust a deck chap to come wandering into a thread when he read "Scrubbers" as the subject matter. 


Times I've done that when I heard the C/E say we'll have to pull that unit when we're in Valparaiso.


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## spongebob

willincity said:


> Trust a deck chap to come wandering into a thread when he read "Scrubbers" as the subject matter.
> 
> 
> Times I've done that when I heard the C/E say we'll have to pull that unit when we're in Valparaiso.


I have had a bit to do with scrubbers in the land boiler field , big ones, small ones , cyclones, bag filters , electrostatic ones all with their pros and cons but WC's comment about pulling units raises a question that has passed me by now and then.
That is in my day , the days before container ships and before rapid turn arounds , there always seemed to be plenty of time to pull pistons in port and also find time for fun and games. Often such maintenance was done ahead of schedule to clear the way for a little more leisure at the next more desirable port.
But what happens nowadays? I see these hard working container ships , logg carriers, tour liners etc hitting Tauranga port for a minimum of time , sometimes arriving in the dead of the night and off again by the next sunset and I often wonder how they cope with the maintenance during short stop overs..
Just asking like,

Bob


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## seaman38

willincity said:


> Times I've done that when I heard the C/E say we'll have to pull that unit when we're in Valparaiso.


Job n Finish ! and we deckies always helped with the rigging, so you could get to the Skandi Bar (after us)[=P]


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## willincity

seaman38 said:


> Job n Finish ! and we deckies always helped with the rigging, so you could get to the Skandi Bar (after us)[=P]


You sound like a PSNC man to me 
And of course Jako's bar for afters


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## seaman38

willincity said:


> You sound like a PSNC man to me


Yes, many, many, many moons ago, it apparently was some type of penance. Dolores is probably a great great grandmother by now(Smoke)


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## alaric

willincity said:


> Trust a deck chap to come wandering into a thread when he read "Scrubbers" as the subject matter./QUOTE]
> 
> Yes, I knew the subject and my carefully phrased question would attract this type of response. I had hoped that there would also be some comment on cleaning up exhaust gases. I was too optimistic!


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## seaman38

alaric said:


> willincity said:
> 
> 
> 
> Trust a deck chap to come wandering into a thread when he read "Scrubbers" as the subject matter./QUOTE]
> 
> Yes, I knew the subject and my carefully phrased question would attract this type of response. I had hoped that there would also be some comment on cleaning up exhaust gases. I was too optimistic!
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, just messroom banter, again apologies don't know anything about mechanical scrubbers, but always interesting to read the comments of those that do. We are always on a learning curve, no matter how old we are
Click to expand...


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## skilly57

A few years back the friendly coach of the Australian netball team referred to the NZ netball team as 'just a bunch of scrubbers'! The Aussie coach's name is 'Plummer', so I guess she would know what a scrubber looks like.

But it now seems 'our' scrubbers are going to be in high demand from 2020, so they will be the winners in the end!


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## Ron Stringer

This rush to fit scrubbers comes about because the coastal countries,especially in the EU and Scandinavia, are concerned about the high sulphur levels and other nasties in the sort of fuel that ships burn. Although cars in Western Europe are facing ever-tighter restrictions on noxious emissions, ships in port and on the routes close to shore have been able to polluting the air without limit.

So after much pressure (and delay) it has been agreed at IMO that, in port and certain designated areas of the sea, ships will have to use a cleaner fuel such as LPG, or will have to fit exhaust gas scrubbers to remove the contaminants. Seems a reasonable contribution to protecting the environment at sea.

Except that the nasties that are washed out of the exhaust gases are allowed to be discharged overboard. Nice one *IMO*.


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## gordonarfur

There were plenty of them in Wellington and Auckland in the late fifties and early sixties and all free!!


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## sternchallis

And they would ofteñ say to a young cadet or 1st trip Junior, " I have never been on a ship before, but isn't the weather step a bit high."


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## david freeman

sternchallis said:


> And they would ofteñ say to a young cadet or 1st trip Junior, " I have never been on a ship before, but isn't the weather step a bit high."


I am lost is this the same as steam on the er handrails? and please go for a long wait?


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## OilJiver

david freeman said:


> I am lost is this the same as steam on the er handrails? and please go for a long wait?



It was cooling water on the ER handrails David. But no, not the same.

Another version of previous might be, _“I’ve never been on a ship before. Which way to the heads?”
_

Hope that helps.


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## sternchallis

OilJiver;296990Another version of previous might be said:


> “I’ve never been on a ship before. Which way to the heads?”
> [/I]
> 
> Hope that helps.


Or " I 've never been on a ship before, but your stern spring is a bit tight.
Ditto, sounds like No2 Genny is knocking its bottom ends out."

Very much Kiwi/ Aussie coast when the Forced Draught and Heavy Lift jobs used to come on board on the 1st & 2nd nights in port, then we got organised and invited the nurses or telephone swb girls down and they were nice girls and some were even nice good girls.

" I like the girls that do. I like the girls that don't, but of all the girls I hate the most, are those that say they will then they don't".


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## norm.h

sternchallis said:


> ...... then we got organised and invited the nurses or telephone swb girls down ......".


"_Would any of your young ladies care to join us for a cocktail party_?"

Yeah, right (LOL)


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## sternchallis

norm.h said:


> "_Would any of your young ladies care to join us for a cocktail party_?"
> 
> Yeah, right (LOL)


We also added ' in the Officers Cocktail lounge or Saloon'.

Now you have to have been on the New Zealand or Australian coast in the liner trades on a smart Refrigerated cargo ship, for that to work. A large clean Orange Funnel with a big Bleu Star on both sides, well lit up at night. Not some Bank line tramper.
Very often as soon as the shore phone was connected up it would be ringing and the plaintive cry would be, 'party on a Star boat ' from some female voice.
Anybody from P&O, Shaw Saville and Port Line can vouch for this..

As we normally pulled pistons first port, one time we had a ************ ( Mouri girl, normally with half a set of teeth) helping the 3/E as he miked the liner, she was writing the readings down as he shouted them out. Obviously Toe Tector Flip Flops in those days.
The Kiwi Coast was something else. Its been known for the JB from the crews bar to turn to on staging to paint the ships side as the crew were sleeping their beery night off, being still too drunk to go on staging.


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## seaman38

sternchallis said:


> . Not some Bank line tramper.
> .


Alas Sternchallis, you are totally misguided on that. Whilst doing a two year stint on a Ropner tramper trading from China, Canada, Japan to East and West Australia. It was my duty as a clean looking, blonde, blue eyed, tanned lithe young man to visit the Local Hospital and arrange a meeting with Matron to enquire whether or not she would grant permission for her charges to join us for an evenings entertainment, she herself was of course invited as the Captain's guest. Permission was always granted, and Matron never came as she didn't want to spoil her charges enjoyment.

The nurses were always happy with the high quality of food, drink, entertainment and men, and remarked what a pleasant change it was to meet polite real men, rather than those self opinionated stuffed shirts who sailed on those vessels with a big blue star or a red funnel with two black stripes, who thought they had a right to get into their knickers because they (the men) wore long white socks!(==D)


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## spongebob

The little Union co ship, Navua , was painted all white with buff decks in order to reflect heat while plying the Pacific islands banana run and while in this garb she spent time off season coasting all ports , Bluff to Auckland .
Her colours gave her a bit of class over the other Union ships with black hulls and buff toward orange brown top sides. 
our real secret weapon when inviting girls aboard for a party was the Mate,
His older sister was the matron at the Karitane training hospital for baby care nurses so we were able to have the damsels aboard with almost official approval each time we hit Dunedin or nearby Port Chalmers.
Great times , nice girls, some nicer than others depending on your taste or luck or whatever. 
A few romances developed and one engineer married a sheep farmers daughter to spend the rest of his life in them thar hills.
They were great times.

Bob


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## gordonarfur

I can certainly vouch for the girls telephoning the "home boats" for a bit of action especially in the smaller ports of Timaru, New Plymouth etc, but i never experienced any of that in the Union Co irrespective of the colour of the hull or anything else, in my opinion they were a dead beat bunch.


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## spongebob

Who were Gordon, the crew or the girls that came on board?
I must admit that a Union Co ship in an NZ port might be seen as too close to home for some but it wasn't a handicap on the Aussie coast .
One time in The tiny SA port of Edithburg the party was so big that a visitor invited us all ashore to Mum and Dads and a piano, what a night.

Many little experiences come to light

Bob


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## sternchallis

Not many wore long white socks, apart from the Mates and the Old man.
As they were plastic, mine soon got ditched as they were far too hot in the Tropics and replaced with short (bless their) cotton socks.
I never bought the white canvas shoes either but wore the black leather ones until I found even the Old Man on one ship wearing leather sandals, so I thought there were far more practical and cooler.

Not that we were in uniform at our parties, it would have been a case of beer should anyone who had been.
The only times I remember leaving the ship in uniform, was just as I joined the company and had to go ashore to the P.O. in Liverpool of all places during my lunch hour on the 'ship's bike' (and got told the error of my ways by the lads) and once in Barry to visit a HM Submarine, drinking the Officers fridge dry between 4 of us and two of them.


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## Varley

Socks and sandals. One of Pa's stories (when discretely letting me down from being a Sandhurst reject) was his recounting of an RN voyage to the East (not sure if it was his on the way to Singapore after hostilities or hearsay). The young surgeon had prescribed sandals as a permanent solution to another officers athlete's foot. The 'Owner' claimed this resulted in him being improperly dressed and so deemed him to be medically unfit for duty. The only salvage from this disregard of the taxpayers money this was that the senior medic to whom the 'owner' complained when they arrived out east fully supported the diagnosis and treatment.

Another anodyne was "My boy, in this life you will at some time have ****s above you. The difference with the forces is that you cannot, as you should, give them two fingers".

His wisdom did not extend to the involvement of hosiery.


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## gordonarfur

spongebob - good comment, some of the black gang needed cleaning up so it was rather difficult at times to differentiate between the sexes.


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## gordonarfur

Seaman 38 do I detect a note of resentment or jealousy in your posting? it was a well known fact that the uniformed gentlemen who manned the conference lines ships to OZ and NZ were in fact the creme de la creme of the MN which was well known by the young ladies who at the slightest hint of a party rushed eagerly to board our vessels for for entertainment before their numbers be restricted by the old man.


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## seaman38

gordonarfur said:


> Seaman 38 do I detect a note of resentment or jealousy in your posting?


Nay Lad! not a bit of it! Served my time with a Liner company when the moon was young! Went to sea to see the world and decided that Liner companies regular bus service runs were not for me and would not give me that opportunity, but tramping did. There were good tramps and bad tramps and you could move from one to the other and not even leave the ship, just a change of Master would do it. On the whole I must have been lucky, I sailed mostly on the good, with good Masters, good shipmates, good crews, good food and accommodation, the war built ones left a bit to be desired in the latter respect, but that was only to be expected. Saw countries and ports I never would have on a liner trade, enjoyed the uncertainty of it, but it's horses for courses and some preferred to know how their lives were set out in the immediate future. Oh! and we did wear uniforms whilst aboard, (mostly Hong Kong tailored Khakis) but not at the parties, but on one ship the Master insisted on whites entering and leaving port...………………….Happy Days


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## norm.h

sternchallis said:


> We also added ' in the Officers Cocktail lounge or Saloon'.
> Now you have to have been on the New Zealand or Australian coast in the liner trades on a smart Refrigerated cargo ship, for that to work. A large clean Orange Funnel with a big Bleu Star on both sides, well lit up at night.......


Yep, providing you had one, or access to it.
Otherwise, cabin party................
Luv the mention of Port Chalmers and Timaru - happy days.

Submarine in Barry ? when would that have been? My home town.

The trouble with lighting up our funnel was that it also showed up the black exhaust generated by the Brush diesels driving the frig machinery!
The scrubbers mentioned in the OP would have been a big help.


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## sternchallis

Norm.h your query about a submarine in Barry, was Summer 1978, perhaps june-August, I would have to look at my discharge book on that one. 
I had just done a voyage and we came into Barry to lie up until a cargo was found, along with 2 other BSL ships. I do remember us going ashore night before I was to travel home and had spent the night drinking draught cider. 
That seemed a long train journey home to Hull, no restaurant car or drinks service, hot as heck, I think I felt every gap in the lines, was spitting feathers by the time I got to Hull. Of course then bottled water was not part of your attire as it seems to be now.
Happy days.


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## norm.h

Cheers......
By 1978 I'd left Barry 9 years, so wouldn't have been aware.
I do remember 2 subs came in during my apprenticeship [early 50s] which we looked over, but weren't treated to any drinks.
I've seen pics on some Barry web sites of BS ships laid up in Barry.
I was on Australia Star [1] - rose to the dizzy heights of 2nd Freezer.

Sorry ladies & gents - way of topic.


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## norm.h

Is there any truth in this? 
Source: https://www.independent.co.uk/envir...bber-carbon-dioxide-environment-a9123181.html

"_Global shipping companies have spent millions rigging vessels with “cheat devices” that cir***vent new environmental legislation by dumping pollution into the sea instead of the air, The Independent can reveal.

More than £9.7m has been spent on the devices, known as open-loop scrubbers, which extract sulphur from the exhaust fumes of ships that run on heavy fuel oil.

This means the vessels meet standards demanded by the International Maritime Organisation (IMO) that kick in on 1 January.

However, the sulphur emitted by the ships is simply re-routed from the exhaust and expelled into the water around the ships, which not only greatly increases the volume of pollutants being pumped into the sea, but also increases carbon dioxide emissions.

The change could have a devastating effect on wildlife in British waters and around the world, experts have warned."_


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## Varley

Scrubbers are presently legitimate device for reducing atmospheric pollution both 'open loop' (ie sea water in, spray, discharge overboard like IG Scrubbers) and 'closed loop' (the uptake gas washings are is treated and recirculated).

Some jurisdictions have banned operation of open loop scrubbers (PRC I think being one).


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## Barrie Youde

In the present political climate can it really be proper to continue any discussion as to scrubbers in the present august and immaculate company?


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## Varley

Don't tell me. Another special interest party lobbying in the Brexit melee? Where do they stand? (Perhaps that should be "What position have they adopted?").


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## gordonarfur

most of the scrubbers I came across were in Auckland or Wellington and they had very little or nothing to do with the black gang


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## sternchallis

If the Greens had their way we would be living in caves eating nuts and berries. 
Everything in modern life produces some sort of pollution somewhere, you are not going tomget rid of it.
So the black satanic mills have gone from our landscape, but they are still producing pollution in another part of the world where life is cheap.

Ask a Green about all the pollution that is caused to ship a bike made in China to the UK instead of it being made in Nottingham as they used to be.
These electric car batteries are not that green by the time you have dug the fancy metals out of the ground and shipped them around the world a few times before they reach the car buyer.
Then a Green wants a new house to live in, so they cut trees down and destroy farmland so he can.
And which western country is the largest polluter, the US.


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## KEITHMAR

With apologies to Alaric, I know nothing about Co2 scrubbers ,But as a long serving NZS . man, a little of the other kind ?but a little story comes to mind , nothing to do with Co2. nor scrubbers .third day discharging , dock Sud Buenos Aires, after a party the night before, one of the Cadets came into the bar at midday to inform Us that there was to be a big party at the home of one of the nurses from the British Hospital and she was inviting six or eight officers to attend , The girls would meet Us at the station, as we had to go by train to the house. GREAT!! SO at 8 o clock ,there We were ,clea n shirts , and carrying a couple of cases of Tenants!! The train journey took over two hours, deep into "The Campo"of Buenos Aires Province then the train stopped in the middle of nowhere,The girls made Us get off , and the train left Us on a wooden walkway,total blackness , except the stars,Then boom,! all the lights came on which showed a road with coloured lights leading up to "THE HOUSE".Parked outside the house were a lot of fancy cars AND Sulkies, elegant little traps and two or three horses in a paddock," What the Frig are We doing here" We all said , Well We didn·T say it Then,I think We were all in shock, But proceeded into "THE GARDEN" ............ about 70 people, tables of food roast pig, roast lamb and beef .Waiters with ***merbunds,Our tennants disappeared somewhere, but the truth is We were treated Royally with much respect,at Midnight the music started a mixture of Argentine folk music and rock and roll. and We danced and drank,to await the first train back to The City about 5am but about 2in the morning , and whilst I could speak clearly ,I decided that I must thank The Hostess The party girl" for Her generosity,I asked where Her parents were , to thank Them too. AND I PROMISE, THIS is what She SAID "Daddy is in a conference in London , and Mummys gone Shopping in Bond Street!!!............GOBSPACKED!!..........It turned out on the way back the girls told Us that she was an excellent student nurse , Her Father was South American general manager of shell oil.But the Land was owned by The Mother.But We had a good time. Apologies again Alaric for coming "OFF THEAD!


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## alaric

#38 
No need to apologise Keith, with the title I gave this thread I didn't expect all replies to be confined exclusively to cleaning up flue gas!
But you have strayed way off course, I don't see any link to scrubbers of any type, but a memorable party it seems.


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## sternchallis

Good one Kiethmar, I like it. Anybody sailing on a reefer always got to civilised ports for a reasonable time and had some good parties with the likes of the local Nurses Home or Telephone Switchboard girls.
These tanker, bulker and box boat people have never lived. As soon as the phone was connected up in NZ, it would be ringing asking if there was a party that night " Party on a Star boat?" was the cry, and I am sure the same with Port line, P&O and NZS and other Reefers.
The scrubbers would arrive 1st night and be given short shrift.
The OM on one ship asked the agent in Malta to supply/ invite girls from the office to a party/ BBQ on the boat deck during the summer whilst we were Mediteranean moored. What a night that was. All nice girls and some were even good girls.


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