# Other (telegraphy-related) jobs for R/Os (?)



## Worldspan (Jan 2, 2012)

Back in the 50s and 60s there were a fair number of openings for R/Os who didn’t want to go to sea. Coast stations are the obvious example but outfits like the DWS and GCHQ also recruited those with PMG tickets. I remember seeing adverts for ops to join the British Antarctic Survey and I know that the International Red Cross had its own radio ops – but perhaps these were all Swiss? Until when were airlines recruiting R/Os and how easy was it to convert a PMG?

It would be interesting to hear from anyone (or about anyone) with regard to any of the above.

W


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## Moulder (Aug 19, 2006)

I recall recruitment ads for Radio Ops at Scotland Yard - can't decide whether they were in Signal or the Telegraph though.

(Thumb)


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## Worldspan (Jan 2, 2012)

OK ... yes, Scotland Yard had an its own intercept station at Denmark Hill and this was almost certainly brought into GCHQ. But when? Do you remember when you saw the advert? 

On the other hand, the advert may have been for RT ops at headquarters.

On a slightly different tack, I read somewhere that the first experiments with radio in police cars involved the use of WT!

W


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## Duncan112 (Dec 28, 2006)

Seem to recall that a few went to work for GCHQ in the early '80's


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## Varley (Oct 1, 2006)

I remember a seminar in the 80s as to the future of R/Os - my own take was that we should be aiming for educated electricians and that operating could be allocated elsewhere. There was a lady representative of GCHQ who was very upset that the flow was towards dropping of morse.


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## King Ratt (Aug 23, 2005)

I always thought that electricians were educated. One I knew had as much radio knowledge as myself. Are you listening, LouisB!


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## cajef (Feb 8, 2012)

R651400 said:


> Mid 50's there still existed the Special Certificate


Still existed in the 70's, I knew someone that passed it then and got employed as an operator on the rigs.


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## holland25 (Nov 21, 2007)

The Falkland Islands used to advertise for Radio Ops from time to time ,and I also remember one of the South Atlantic Islands looking for a Post Master with W/T quals. I applied for a job as a comms officer with the Australian civil air authority in about 1964, were PMG cert holders would be considered,I wasnt successful.I was given the address of the United Nations Field operations which I was told used R/Os, that was about 1974. I think 1956 was about the end for air radio ops,though they had been in decline for a few years prior.Luckily for me, computer communications became a big thing and it got me through to retirement.


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## Worldspan (Jan 2, 2012)

OK about the 'Specials' ... someone I knew had such a ticket and worked on trawlers for a couple years. Then he came ashore and ended his career as someone senior at GCHQ. 

W


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## Worldspan (Jan 2, 2012)

Regarding the reference to BBC Caversham ... I thought the BBC employed only linguists for radio monitoring. Were the applicants also required to be fluent in certain languages? 
W


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## IMRCoSparks (Aug 22, 2008)

Dewline


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## Worldspan (Jan 2, 2012)

I bet I'm too late (too old) to apply but what was the date of that advert?
W


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## Worldspan (Jan 2, 2012)

OK ... I'd forgotten about Interpol. They used to send some stuff in p/l around 5 mc/s. There was also a big net nearby for the French Gendarmerie. The latter had dipoles for HF at all their local posts until some 10 years ago. Some of the masts remain but are used for VHF aerials.
W


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## beedeesea (Feb 28, 2006)

Were all coppers trained to receive morse, or did they have specialists for the task?

Brian


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## Worldspan (Jan 2, 2012)

I believe they employed ex RN telegraphists.
W


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## endure (Apr 16, 2007)

GCHQ used to recruit at Riversdale the three years that I was there. The problem was you'd talk to them and come away none the wiser as to what you'd be doing if you landed a job.


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## IMRCoSparks (Aug 22, 2008)

The Canadian ad was dated 1961. It was sent to me when I was Jr R/O on Sylvania by Cape Race radio/ VCE? There was an operator who, I'm sure, must have also been in Human Resources with the govt.
He called me up on the 4-8 watch and asked if I might be interested. So I said "might be" Glad I declined although I did end up in Canada 10 years later.
I think the exchange rate at that time was 1 UK pound = 3 Canadian Dollars

Ken


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## Ron Stringer (Mar 15, 2005)

When I started at Brooks Bar, Manchester in 1958 there were several people studying for the aeronautical equivalent of the PMG with the intention of joining BOAC. Much later I became friends with Herb Blaker, a lovely American who had been a R/O on the Pan-Am Clipper flying boat services, flying from San Francisco out to Hawaii and down to South America.


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## joe-ei5ge (Dec 14, 2013)

not the case, I worked in Tanzania 1993, tough station, over 330k refugees under plastic. geneva was our home base and we used a 3 element beam pointing north QSO with bern radio (HEB) the system was Pactor (Radio Telex) for in country comms we used a Folded DP Barker Williamson wire antenna ( most hotel had such antennas on roof space back in the day before Satellite) I used a long version (180Ft) of that ant for Ham Radio. eventually came ashore in malin head a few years ago. ( came across the first R/O in Sydney Radio another long story)


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## Varley (Oct 1, 2006)

King Ratt said:


> I always thought that electricians were educated. One I knew had as much radio knowledge as myself. Are you listening, LouisB!


Unfortunately it was a moveable feast (as the superstitious would mark it). No one can deny the education and training of those from the gas board and mines but there were a lot (the majority) with exclusively monkey-see-monkey-do style apprenticeships. I can't believe you thought the stock was homogeneously well equipped for their task.


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## Moulder (Aug 19, 2006)

Worldspan said:


> OK ... yes, Scotland Yard had an its own intercept station at Denmark Hill and this was almost certainly brought into GCHQ. But when? Do you remember when you saw the advert?
> 
> On the other hand, the advert may have been for RT ops at headquarters.
> 
> ...


The add specified required morse speeds and was circa early 70s.

(Thumb)


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## Worldspan (Jan 2, 2012)

joe-ei5ge said:


> not the case, I worked in Tanzania 1993, tough station, over 330k refugees under plastic. geneva was our home base and we used a 3 element beam pointing north QSO with bern radio (HEB) the system was Pactor (Radio Telex) for in country comms we used a Folded DP Barker Williamson wire antenna ( most hotel had such antennas on roof space back in the day before Satellite) I used a long version (180Ft) of that ant for Ham Radio. eventually came ashore in malin head a few years ago. ( came across the first R/O in Sydney Radio another long story)


Thanks for the account of the Red Cross set up in Tanzania. OK that the ops were not all Swiss. How many people were in the comms department at your camp?

You mention in-country comms - was this from the camp to Land Rovers and the like? I've seen shots of Red Cross vehicles (these days 4x4 saloons) with a longish whip aerial. So did you work them via SSB or what? And in what frequency band, I wonder? And what kind of equipment did the cars have? I've lost track of the sunspot cycles now but remember years ago listening to Land Rovers on farms in South Africa using AM on frequencies around 30 m/cs. I had a bit of ex RAF kit (perhaps from the Gee network) and this worked as a converter feeding into a CR300 - or was it a CR100? In any event, it weighed a ton and was an ex RN receiver.

It would be interesting to know more and thanks in advance.

W


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## sandhopper (Mar 15, 2013)

Back in 1977/1978 I saw the adverts for Scotland Yard communication technicians. As the only newspaper/magazine I read was the Signal, I presume it was in that.
Met an ex UN radio op in the middle east back in the early 90s. He enjoyed the job but it would seem the pay was not great.


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## John Dryden (Sep 26, 2009)

I knew an ex R/O who got a job working within UK embassies,the pay was off the scale and the perks even better.He would never tell me what the job involved..official secret act he said.


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## Worldspan (Jan 2, 2012)

Yes, this would have been the DWS (Diplomatic Wireless Service) and they handled communications between embassies and the FO in London. Incidentally, most of those guys probably got made redundant (like the R/Os) with the increased use of satellite comms. I wonder what happened to them ... perhaps they got offered jobs with GCHQ (?)


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## sandhopper (Mar 15, 2013)

Worldspan said:


> Yes, this would have been the DWS I wonder what happened to them ... perhaps they got offered jobs with GCHQ (?)


Two months ago I was chatting to a semi-retired DWS ex forces bod. He kept referring to "the office". Seems he spent his time going round doing installations and upgrades. Cannot expect the pen pushers to operate beyond proforma filling.

Pitcairn was another place, the last w/t op died about 2years ago.


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## J. Davies (Dec 29, 2010)

My Morse teacher at Brunel Tech in Bristol was Bill Donley, may he rest in peace. A wonderful man. He never sailed on ship, but refered to a past career in UK government communications working in embassies all over the world. Those days are long gone.


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## Larry Bennett (Aug 28, 2005)

Worldspan said:


> Regarding the reference to BBC Caversham ... I thought the BBC employed only linguists for radio monitoring. Were the applicants also required to be fluent in certain languages?
> W


When I left Brunel Tech in Bristol in 1979 I managed to obtain a post at the BBC at Caversham as an electronics technician, maintaining the radio receivers and recording equipment. Used to see many of the linguists there, some of whom rather looked down on us who worked "downstairs". There was a 3 month training course at the BBC Engineering Training Centre at Wood Norton near Evesham before we were despatched to our places of employment.

Luckily I had my name held on file with the GPO Maritime Radio dept and they invited me for interview the day after I started at Caversham - I sailed through the interview and morse test and commenced employment at GKA in January 1980. 

So there were plenty of jobs around for R/Os if you looked hard enough - but very few using cw skills with the exception of GCHQ and the military.


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## Larry Bennett (Aug 28, 2005)

J. Davies said:


> My Morse teacher at Brunel Tech in Bristol was Bill Donley, may he rest in peace. A wonderful man. He never sailed on ship, but refered to a past career in UK government communications working in embassies all over the world. Those days are long gone.


Remember Bill very well. A real gentleman and a highly-decorated aviator during WW2. He never spoke about his wartime experiences, although there were rumours of his involvement in bombing raids. As you say he subsequently found a career in the Government Comms Services (Diplomatic Wireless Service?) and ended up at Brunel. 

Larry +


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## Peter Eccleson (Jan 16, 2006)

An old friend from the WC Colwyn Bay (George Petrakis - you will remeber him Varley) passed his 'Special' and went to sea Greek Flag in the 70's.
Had a chat with him in the Indian Ocean when he was on a Liberian Registered tanker.


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## Varley (Oct 1, 2006)

Peter, Yes, I remember him well but only up till we managed to close Colwyn Bay a year short of completion of our course. Didn't he sail with his Pa, a Master?


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## M29 (Apr 20, 2007)

Larry Bennett said:


> Remember Bill very well. A real gentleman and a highly-decorated aviator during WW2. He never spoke about his wartime experiences, although there were rumours of his involvement in bombing raids. As you say he subsequently found a career in the Government Comms Services (Diplomatic Wireless Service?) and ended up at Brunel.
> 
> Larry +


Hi
Bill's career in the RAF started as a gunner/wireless operator which is of course were his signal experience came from. He completed his full tour of ops on bombers and was seriously wounded. He trained as a pilot and completed two more tours of ops flying four engined bombers (Halifaxes). He was highly decorated both as an NCO (all air crew were sargents) and as a comissioned officer. His aircraft was fitted with "Fishpond" which was code for a PPI display radar. With the aid of this, his crew claimed two german night fighters shot down.
After WWII he stayed on in the RAF, his last offensive action being Bombing over Egypt during the Suez Crisis, from the RAF base in Malta.
He was then in NATO liaison over the use of the V Bomber force and also trained on the Vulcan for the satisfaction of flying one and to speak from experience when discussing their use in a possible WWIII situation.

I knew most of the above personally from Bill but he didnt't talk generally about it.

Many of the Faculty staff were surprised to learn of the above when much of it was read out in a speech by the head of Faculty at Bill's retirement.

He was, as has been said one of lifes gentlemen, sadly missed


Best Wishes

Alan Melia


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## M29 (Apr 20, 2007)

J. Davies said:


> My Morse teacher at Brunel Tech in Bristol was Bill Donley, may he rest in peace. A wonderful man. He never sailed on ship, but refered to a past career in UK government communications working in embassies all over the world. Those days are long gone.


Hi Jon
See my reply to Larry above.

Best Wishes

Alan


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## Peter Eccleson (Jan 16, 2006)

Dave
Don't think so, but it was with his Dad's company.

Peter


Varley said:


> Peter, Yes, I remember him well but only up till we managed to close Colwyn Bay a year short of completion of our course. Didn't he sail with his Pa, a Master?


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