# Life on the Docks



## fgairdner (Nov 10, 2008)

Hello, 

I am wondering if anyone knows of any good sources that explains what life was like at the ports for the Merchant Mariners as well as the stevedores.

In specifics, I am trying to find out how long it took to load a Merchant Ship (i.e. Liberty Ship). As well as how they were loaded and how many men it took to load them.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

FG


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## John Rogers (May 11, 2004)

Thats a loaded question (pardon the pun) a Liberty ship or Ft Boat woulds normally take a week to load and unload with four or five men below in the holds and about four men above at the hatch with 2 men on each winch times 5 holds. On dockside you had about four men for each sling load that was slung ashore. Then you had men in the warehouse and on the trucks and locomotives,so you see its hard to put a number on them. I would guess and say about 100 to 120 men to a ship.
Maybe another member could add to this.

John.


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## Monket (Mar 8, 2007)

I think it would depend on the cargo and the port facilities.
For example I can remember loading thousands of tons of grain by conveyor belt in Baton Rouge in a few hours and taking three weeks to discharge it by canvas sling in Rijeka, Yugoslavia.


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## spongebob (Dec 11, 2007)

During WW2 when the prompt handling of ship cargoes was critical to the overall war effort and as most people were patroitic enough to pull their weight this work was done at creditable speeds.
Come the post war period, the late 40's and the fifties saw a different attitude and result as waterside workers in ports around the world started to bid for better conditions by going slow or by striking for periods of time. Some of this industrial action was justified, some not and it must have varied in its intensity in different countries.
The Melbourne docks were notorious for many years while the New Zealand scene saw the Government de-register the water front workers union in 1951 and bring in the police and all armed services as wharf labour.
This was supplemented by ships crews who worked their own cargoes to turn the ships around.
The speed of handling also depended on the nature of the cargo be it frozen lamb carcasses or butter boxes, cheese crates or wool bales as typical of NZ exports. or loading large cases of new motor vehicles or tractors as export from the UK.
I recall loading ingots of pig iron from Whyalla in Australia's Spencer gulf when they dropped perhaps twenty tons at a time by hoisting the railway waggons over the hold and opening the bottom. Virtually every light bulb in the ship was stuffed as a result and the electrician had to clean out all the local retailers in the town to get us back to sea.
On arrival in Auckland the cargo workers stood in the hold and picked up the ingots one at a time to place them in a small bin that was then craned ashore. No magnetic grabs in those days/that port but as the ship's crew were mostly Aucklanders we were not disapointed.
As an engineer I can only quote my observations but given the nature of the cargo there must be hundreds of deck crew members that can offer qualified guidance.

Bob


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## Pat Kennedy (Apr 14, 2007)

The manning scale for loading a ship with general cargo on Liverpool docks was as follows;
Holdsmen 8
deckhands 3 if using derricks, 1 if using quayside crane.
Quayside, 1 at the stage end, 3 in the shed .
1 mobile crane/fork lift driver.
1 tally clerk
1 hatch boss.
A total of 18 men per hatch, plus ship's foreman and wharfinger.
A typical 5 hatch ship eg Henderson line 'Pegu' would take ten days to fully load in Birkenhead, using four quayside cranes and one derrick gang, employing around ninety men. If they put a night shift on, which they did fairly frequently, loading would take a week, and employ around 180 men.
This doesnt take into account the men employed in receving cargo from road or rail into the warehouse prior to and during the actual loading of the ship, usually another 8 to 10 men.
You can see why containerisation was such a widespread success.
Pat


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## slick (Mar 31, 2006)

All,
One of my abiding memories and I am sure of West African "Logging Members", was to see the use of bullwires and snatch blocks loading timber in the loading ports, floaters and sinkers etc, or loading Rhodesian Maize in Port Elizabeth by split bag through alternately spaced hatchboards.
The bags were carefully cut along the hand sewn seam tellings off all round if the burlap was nicked.
One feature was very big gangs at both places.
Yours aye,
Slick


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## Pat Kennedy (Apr 14, 2007)

The strangest rig I ever saw was in Hull, where we were discharging a few hundred tons of copra in sacks. the dockers ran the runners off the derricks and replaced them with gantline sized rope falls, which were taken not to the winch barrel, but to the drum ends. The winch was put on full, and left on, and the the man on the drum end surged to stop, and threw off turns to lower. It was amazingly fast, but I doubt the health and safety gurus would allow such a practice these days.
Pat


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## andysk (Jun 16, 2005)

When loading fruit in South Africa, from memory (not so good now !) and from a couple of slides I took down the hatch, there were about 15 + guys in the hatch unloading from the crane and at least one man on deck controlling the cranes, of which there were often 2 to a hatch. When I find the pics I'll post them (if they are any good !)

They seem OK, so he they are !


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## Hugh Ferguson (Sep 4, 2006)

Only one answer to that-*Hard Graft*. I still have a memory of the first loading day of a Glen Line ship in the KG.v Dock, London, in 1949. Cement in bags over the entire bottom of No.2 Lower Hold. They were on piece work and some of those guys, as they lifted a cwt. bag of cement off of the tray that had just come whizzing down into the hold, ran, yes ran across the hold to drop it in position in the furthest recesses of the largest cargo space there was in those ships. They did that, with the occasional break, from 8am to 7pm. No wonder obesity was not in much evidence in those days!


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## rivet (Feb 18, 2006)

*life on the docks*

have you read 'Dockland Apprentice' 
its about life in the london docks during the 1950's
its available on Amazon
rivet


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## signalman (Jul 3, 2007)

Hugh, have you seen dockers running with a hindquarter of Argentinian beef? I tried one on my back once and couldn't get off my knees once I had gone down.

I have a signed copy by the author of 'Dockland Apprentice'.

Signalman.


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## Bill Davies (Sep 5, 2007)

Pat Kennedy said:


> The manning scale for loading a ship with general cargo on Liverpool docks was as follows;
> Holdsmen 8
> deckhands 3 if using derricks, 1 if using quayside crane.
> Quayside, 1 at the stage end, 3 in the shed .
> ...


Pat,

I do not think your post is complete without some reference to 'the welt' and 'the piggy'

Brgds
Bill


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## Pat Kennedy (Apr 14, 2007)

Bill, 
As I understand it, the welt was introduced to Liverpool by the United States Military, who wanted work to continue without any tea breaks, so the men were encouraged to work at half strength down the hold, and rotate 1 hour on, 1 hour off, but keep up 'production' so to speak. This was not unduly difficult for gangs discharging military equipment and supplies, but the practice was soon adopted throughout the port and spread to the quay crowd as well as the holdsmen. The only ones who were not involved in the welt were crane drivers tally clerks and hatch bosses.
The welt was tolerated by the employers right up until the 1970's, when casual work was abolished and dockers were given regular full time employment.
Despite there only being 4 holdsmen working at any one time, I can testify as an ex overhead crane driver, that the loading ships I usually worked on could not have been loaded any faster than they were, the crane never stopped, 0800-1900, with a one hour lunch break.
My usual area of work was at the West Float in Birkenhead, loading Bibby Line, Paddy Hendersons, Hall and City Line, Harrisons,and Chile boats. with forays over to Liverpool from time to time.
Pat


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## jrell (Nov 7, 2008)

When I first left the sea to work ashore many of the Docks still had the welt and it was not until the abolition of the Docks Labour scheme did the spelling stop then numbers were reduced and performance fell.In the old system the old dockers were given the easier jobs and the younger ones performed the hard graft as most ports were on piece work the harder they worked the more they got. I was on the board of a local dock labour board and helped to end the scheme but I think we got carried away and reduced manning levels to far and did away with piece work, things slowed down and we also lost all the comedians, by the time I retired many of the ports had lost their enjoyment for those working there.Mind it could be just that I'm getting old!


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## Santos (Mar 16, 2005)

I didnt care how long it took to load as long as it was as long as possible in Liverpool - gave me more time with my gal -(Jester) 

Chris.


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## fgairdner (Nov 10, 2008)

*Thanks!*

Thanks so much for all of the responses, some great stuff. 


Does anyone know of any books or online sources that explains life on the docks/shipyard during WW2? 

Thanks again, it is quite a pleasure reading all of the experiences. 

Frank


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## K urgess (Aug 14, 2006)

I found this description of Hull docks interesting, Frank.
http://www.shipsnostalgia.com/showpost.php?p=127549&postcount=100
Cheers
Kris


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## Hugh Ferguson (Sep 4, 2006)

Click HERE for a fine photo of a ship all set for handling "break-bulk" cargo in Hong Kong-the fastest cargo handling I ever saw. Read comments attached to the picture.


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## fgairdner (Nov 10, 2008)

*Thanks*

Very nice story. Thanks!

This is a great site with some fabulous pictures of the construction process.

http://dlg.galileo.usg.edu/liberty_ships/BuildingLibertyShips/

FG


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## KYRENIA (Aug 10, 2007)

"Dockland Apprentice" is more from a shiprepair workers memories. A better book about dockers would be Jack Dash`s "Good Morning Brothers" or "London Docklands"
Cheers John.


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## Bill Davies (Sep 5, 2007)

Hugh Ferguson said:


> Click HERE for a fine photo of a ship all set for handling "break-bulk" cargo in Hong Kong-the fastest cargo handling I ever saw. Read comments attached to the picture.


It is a shame that nobody had the foresight to have bought one of the'china boats' and maintained her. Could have even turned her into a training ship. A 'Conway' of sorts.


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## Pat Kennedy (Apr 14, 2007)

Hugh Ferguson said:


> Click HERE for a fine photo of a ship all set for handling "break-bulk" cargo in Hong Kong-the fastest cargo handling I ever saw. Read comments attached to the picture.


Hugh, 
They used to work cargo like this in Manila also. I remember on the Memnon two of us being on derrick watch for three nights, with seven gangs working cargo into lighters on each side. We worked solid throughout the whole 3 nights adjusting both the yardarm and inboard derricks constantly to the stevedores requirements. 
At least in Hong Kong they adjusted the gear themselves.
Pat


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## Cutsplice (May 23, 2008)

In New York on Cunards Ivernia, we encountered a dock strike which lasted for about 4 weeks. After a short period there was a Presidential decree that all mail and perishible cargo was to be discharged, with the aid of the US army.
The US army members were not allowed to work cargo onboard the ships only on the quayside. All shipboard operations were to be carried out by the ships crew. We had parcel mail in the squares of all the hatches, I was working in the hold, draging heavy mail bags to put into the cargo nets was not easy. For obvious reasons dockers hooks were not allowed, it was the hardest days work I ever did, my body ached for days after. At that period of my life what takes me all night to do now, I could do all night then. One thing I certainly learned at the time was to respect dockers as workers, never did I think of them as lazy b.....s again. By the way we got a bonus of 4 hrs overtime for our efforts.


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## Hugh Ferguson (Sep 4, 2006)

I wonder how many of you sailed in cargo ships equipped with steam reciprocating winches. They were incredibly noisy. Scattered all over the ship, as they were, there was always a couple of them just a few yards away from where you were hoping to get some sleep! 
Some of the rigs were extraordinary: I can remember one, (in Hong Kong, where else). Working overside and shore-side at No.3, the two standing derricks were used swinging, and in order to use power on the guys they had hitched up the unused winches at No.4 by running wires right through the working alley. How the winchmen at No.4 knew when to slack away or heave I can't remember but it worked very well and very fast.
Cargo work always fascinated me, but when it wasn't executed efficiently it was a pain. It was the same in Japanese ports, fast and skillfull and a joy to watch. To me, dockers who knew there stuff were not labourers, they were skilled labourers and there job was full of hazards, and dangerous if done carelessly.


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## jrell (Nov 7, 2008)

I sailed on the SS Mahanada with a steam winch right above my cabin its amazing how we did sleep.In the good old days there were Stevedores and dockers.The Stevedores had a wealth of knowledge in loading ships and worked on the ships. The dockers worked on the shore and had no knowledge of cargoes.Both groups were experts in how to pinch any interesting cargo.


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## Hugh Ferguson (Sep 4, 2006)

Arrived back in London in the Glenartney 21st Nov.1949. There had been a major dock strike and the government of the day had decided enough was enough, so in came the army (& the Navy). We were the first ship to have this honour which began with the arrival of a small army of Coldstream Guardsmen, and a contingent of sailors from Chatham to work and direct the cranes. AND, it was filmed by Gaumont British for cinemas.
It took them most of the morning to get the hatches and beams off of No.3 directly in front of the bridge structure, and the newsreel people had the walkaway in front of the passengers promenade deck to set up their cameras for a perfect view overlooking that hatch.
Eventually, after what can only be descibed as pandemonium-the hatchman, instead of directing the crane driver with hand gestures, bawled at full volume, _Train Right, Train Left etc_ (towards the end of that day he had lost his voice!!!), the cargo was brought into view. It was a solid dance floor of Ceylon tea chests, and the soldiers, having no cargo hooks, couldn't think of a way to get the first one out. Eventually, somebody found a tool-probably a bayonet-and with tea spilling all over the place a slingful was at last, ready to be swung ashore. 
After a week of that they had got to the bottom of the lower tween deck, and they thought it was the bottom of the *hold*. I left to go on leave, but when I returned the ship was still discharging her London cargo!
If anyone should imagine that a dockers' work is unskilled he could not be more mistaken.


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## Pat Kennedy (Apr 14, 2007)

Well yes, they were skilled allright, but not always in a good way. Does anyone remember the infamous practice known in Glasgow as 'a Liverpool face', and in Liverpool as 'a Glasgow face' and no doubt by different names all over the world?
This was when a seemingly perfect stow of cargo was revealed to be a chaotic, higgledy piggledy mess behind a carefully constructed front.
Pat


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## Supergoods (Nov 25, 2007)

jrell said:


> I sailed on the SS Mahanada with a steam winch right above my cabin its amazing how we did sleep.


I remember those cabins very well, the original open steam winches had been replaced by "silent" steam enclosed oil bath winches, which were somewhat quieter, by the time of my first trip in 1958.

I believe they were prototypes for the winches on the post Manaar new builds.

Ian


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## joebuckham (Apr 1, 2005)

Pat Kennedy said:


> Well yes, they were skilled allright, but not always in a good way. Does anyone remember the infamous practice known in Glasgow as 'a Liverpool face', and in Liverpool as 'a Glasgow face' and no doubt by different names all over the world?
> This was when a seemingly perfect stow of cargo was revealed to be a chaotic, higgledy piggledy mess behind a carefully constructed front.
> Pat


when on the thistledhu on a nigerian national charter, loaded glasgow and liverpool for the west coast. when discharging our nigerian lager, in lagos, if my memory serves me well we uncovered a small space in the lower hold, definitely not on any cargo plan, of about 3 metres square, and 2 metres high. this space was furnished with a stack of cases for a table and with a pack of cards and numerous guinness cans scattered around.


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## tugmistress (Jun 26, 2008)

I'll have to find time to read this thread properly, but i only cut my teeth on hull docks a few years ago. i started there in dec 2001 - a total newbie to the situation and there was a 'book' going as to how long i lasted, the longest anyone said was a fortnight lol i left hull docks in october 2002 to work the docks up here and i'm still at it 
thanks for some good (i hope) links and idea's for reading fodder guys


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## looneylectrics (Nov 17, 2006)

Hugh Ferguson said:


> Click HERE for a fine photo of a ship all set for handling "break-bulk" cargo in Hong Kong-the fastest cargo handling I ever saw. Read comments attached to the picture.



I remember the Cape Grenville unloading bagged sugar at Tie coo (phoneticly correct) sugar warf in Hong Kong in 1960 when one of the slings snapped and the derrick flipped up vertical, rotated 180 degrees and came down again. It remained upside down for the rest of the trip and was still used with SWL upside down, I think.

We went from Honk Kong to Christmas Island for bulk phosphate? which we discharged at Port Kembla. Then took bulk coal from Newcastle NSW to Japan none of which used the derricks but I think when we picked up sugar in Fiji they used derricks to lift it on board before cutting the bags open to dump in the hold as bulk. I can't believe they would load the ship by carrying it aboard with manual labour.


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