# Iron barque



## Shipbuilder

Miniature iron barque under construction. Scratchbuilt.
Bob


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## jerome morris

Looks to be another masterpiece.


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## Shipbuilder

Thanks, I think it will be my best so far, as I am taking my time over it.
Bob


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## makko

A very instructive picture Bob of the method of construction. I will be following the build.
Rgds.
Dave


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## Shipbuilder

This is what it was like 19 days ago!
Bob


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## Samsette

I think it wonderful, that such a beauty should emerge from such a crude beginning.


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## Shipbuilder

I am certainly no great craftsman as far as carving is concerned, so I just fudge along the best way I can, usually bringing screams of anguish from skilled model shipbuilders. I have very little patience, and as far as I am concerned, the end justifies the means(Jester) I don't have the money, space, time, or patience to bother with kits, and they are too limiting anyway, as they just seem to be an endless stream of warships with the obligatory _Cutty Sarks, Victorys, Bountys_ and _Titanics_ thrown in!(EEK)
Here is a similar barque, but the one shown above will be shown in a sea under full sail.
Bob


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## James_C

Very nice indeed Bob.


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## Farmer John

Have you seen Basil Lubbock's books, available for free on the Internet, many fantastic pictures and also diagrams of hull forms.

https://archive.org/search.php?query=basil lubbock


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## Shipbuilder

I have a lot of the Lubbock books, but thanks for link, as there are one or two there that I do not have.
Bob


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## makko

Shipbuilder said:


> This is what it was like 19 days ago!
> Bob


Zounds! Talk about ugly duckling! Thanks!


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## Roger Emmins

A real ship!!!!


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## Shipbuilder

Thanks,
Here are some small ladders. The rungs are 38 swg tinned copper wire. The sides are also tinned copper wire, but a bit thicker. The runbgs are soldered to the sides. It took about five minutes to make the pair of them.
Bob


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## jerome morris

Bob, Nice ladder work, and think you for posting with the english pound and american quarter for scale. A big help as I do not see many english pound coins on this side of the pond.


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## Shipbuilder

I specifically hung on to the quarter for that purpose, as I am aware that the majority of my readers are in the US. When rulers appear in the images, these days I use the decimal side, as in the past I have been asked what inches are(EEK) I suppose just about everyone knows about millimeteres though! Did a lot more today, but it does not appear much because it is repetitive. Have coiled down the tiny ropes along the bulwarks next to the fore and mainmasts, & fife rail. Also fitted the poop ladders and handrails. Currently making the compass platform, after which I will post more images.
Bob


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## Bill Morrison

Bob I can only marvel at what you can produce. In #7 you say you have no patience I wonder what you would come up with if you had.
It's a long time past since I tried building models of any kind to many other things take up my time.
F.J. suggested Basil Lubbock books for plans etc. ( Lubbock is my hero ) but for anyone into sailing vessel modeling David R MacGregor's book Fast Sailing Ships contains great plans and information and through his book he mentioned Captain H Paasch's Illustrated Marine Encyclopedia 1890. I have managed to find a copy published more recently at a moderate price It is one of the most explicit books on ships, sailing or early steam I have ever read.
Bill


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## Shipbuilder

Bill,
I have the 1894 edtion of Paasch, as you say, it is excellent. Also the MacGregor and Lubbock books. I do have a lot of ancient-blackened plans picked up over the years, and have taken to drawing new ones using the old ones as reference. It is too expensive buying them from museums, and then they want an extra load of cash if you have the audacity to want to publish them!(Cloud).
I rarely spend more than 50 hours or so building a model, spread out over a few weeks, so I don't waste too much time on them. I simply could not face spending years builidng them, like some do! Here are two of my home-drawn plans. (I spent a year sailing in the _Bandama_).
Bob


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## Farmer John

Bill Morrison said:


> F.J. suggested Basil Lubbock books for plans etc. ( Lubbock is my hero ) but for anyone into sailing vessel modeling David R MacGregor's book Fast Sailing Ships contains great plans and information and through his book he mentioned Captain H Paasch's Illustrated Marine Encyclopedia 1890. I have managed to find a copy published more recently at a moderate price It is one of the most explicit books on ships, sailing or early steam I have ever read.
> Bill


I am a newcomer to Lubbock's books, I have just read "Jack Derringer" and bits of it are a bit over the top, but his description of trying to furl a sail in a gale is brilliant, very clearly descriptive and your heart is in your mouth. You are just lining up more books for me to find and read, I am going to need more time.


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## jg grant

Great stuff SB. Anyone interested in American/Canadian fishing schooners from the early twentieth century and further back should consult American fishing schooners from 1880-1920(?), not sure of the time frame. By Howard Chapelle. It contains Photographs,plans and drawings of every part of these ships with dimensions.


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## Bill Morrison

Farmer John said:


> I am a newcomer to Lubbock's books, I have just read "Jack Derringer" and bits of it are a bit over the top, but his description of trying to furl a sail in a gale is brilliant, very clearly descriptive and your heart is in your mouth. You are just lining up more books for me to find and read, I am going to need more time.


F.J. I came upon Basil Lubbock by chance. The Shore Bosun is a great reader and we used to go to the local library every week. while she was selecting her books I would browse the reference section and came across The Colonial Clippers by B.L. I found the information in it amazing there was all the old Aberdeen Sailing Ship Companies I had never heard of so I went looking for more of his books.
His first one was Round the Horn Before the Mast which is an account of his voyage in a sailing ship from San Francisco to England and from that he went on to record as much about the sailing ships before they disappeared.
Bill


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## Farmer John

I just wrote a long comment back to you, adding very little but advancing nostalgia, but I miss spelt Privilege and the God of computers threw all my tears of memory away.


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## Shipbuilder

After 49 hours work (timed on a stopwatch), spread over 32 days, the hull is now complete, and all ready for the masting and rigging. The hardest part is now over, as rigging these miniatures is far easier than making the hull and deck details. The ship will be shown in a sea, under full sail. I have already assembled the display case, but not veneered the edges yet. The sea and sea base have also been made, but not finalised yet. This model has followed the usual path as far as interest by fellow ship modellers is concerned. Namely, a small number who are interested, to begin with, but trailing off as the build progresses. Merchants ships (so I am often told), do not possess the appeal of warships, and therefore, we do not often see many models of them!
Bob


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## Samsette

The warship that equals the beauty of this iron barque has yet to be designed.


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## James_C

Bob,
Looks beautiful already.


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## makko

Good going, Bob! What fascinates me is the amount of detail in the fittings. A question - Are the "poles" on the bowsprit as-are on the real one or are they rigid fixing points for the sails/rigging?
Best Rgds.
Dave


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## Shipbuilder

Not really sure what you mean by "poles!". The short things sticking out above the bowsprit are tightly twisted 38swg wires that give me something to glue the wire stays to when I am rigging. The thing sticking out under the bowsprit is the short martingale that is soldered end-on to the bowsprit to support the bowsprit stays when they go on. All the rigging will be fine copper wire. The three hollow masts will slide over the three stubs sticking out of the deck. 
Bob


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## Bill Morrison

I can't believe that the rough outline in #5 is your latest photo. The finished article will be worth waiting for.
Bill


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## makko

Shipbuilder said:


> Not really sure what you mean by "poles!". The short things sticking out above the bowsprit are tightly twisted 38swg wires that give me something to glue the wire stays to when I am rigging. The thing sticking out under the bowsprit is the short martingale that is soldered end-on to the bowsprit to support the bowsprit stays when they go on. All the rigging will be fine copper wire. The three hollow masts will slide over the three stubs sticking out of the deck.
> Bob


Thanks Bob!
I laboured to find a description! Hard points for rigging. How easy/fiddly is it to work with the fine copper wire?
Rgds.
Dave


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## Shipbuilder

I find it extremely easy! Stretch a bit of fine copper wire slightly with two small pairs of pliers, and put it down again. It will not spring back like an elastic band, but will remain straight. Cut off the length required with a scalpel, measuring with dividers. Pick it up in centre with tweezers. Dip each end in contact adhesive, and place it in position on the model. No knots, nothing fiddly at all, but very few ship modellers ever try, the usual comment being "I could never do that!" 
Bob


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## kewl dude

To my very untrained eye The Euterpe somewhat resembles your model?

San Diego California Museum Ship 1863-1906 Euterpe - Star of India 1906 to present.

https://sdmaritime.org/visit/the-ships/star-of-india/

Quote
The world’s oldest active sailing ship. She began her life on the stocks at Ramsey Shipyard in the Isle of Man in 1863. Iron ships were experiments of sorts then, with most vessels still being built of wood. Within five months of laying her keel, the ship was launched into her element. She bore the name Euterpe, after the Greek muse of music and poetry.

Euterpe was a full-rigged ship and would remain so until 1901, when the Alaska Packers Association rigged her down to a barque, her present rig. She began her sailing life with two near-disastrous voyages to India. On her first trip she suffered a collision and a mutiny. On her second trip, a cyclone caught Euterpe in the Bay of Bengal, and with her topmasts cut away, she barely made port. Shortly afterward, her first captain died on board and was buried at sea.

After such a hard luck beginning, Euterpe settled down and made four more voyages to India as a cargo ship. In 1871 she was purchased by the Shaw Savill line of London and embarked on a quarter century of hauling emigrants to New Zealand, sometimes also touching Australia, California and Chile. She made 21 cir***navigation's in this service, some of them lasting up to a year. It was rugged voyaging, with the little iron ship battling through terrific gales, “laboring and rolling in a most distressing manner,” according to her log.

The life aboard was especially hard on the emigrants cooped up in her ‘tween deck, fed a diet of hardtack and salt junk, subject to mal-de-mer and a host of other ills. It is astonishing that their death rate was so low. They were a tough lot, however, drawn from the working classes of England, Ireland and Scotland, and most went on to prosper in New Zealand.
Unquote 

http://www.bruzelius.info/Nautica/Ships/Merchant/Sail/E/Euterpe(1863).html

Quote
Euterpe
A full-rigged iron ship built in 1863 by Gibson, McDonald & Arnold, Ramsey, Isle of Man, Great Britain. Her original dimensions were 205'5"×35'2"×23'4" and tonnage 1197 GRT, 1197 NRT and 1107 under deck tons. The measurements after the 1901 rebuilding are 62,47×10,73×6,55 meters 62,47×10,73×6,55 meters [205'6"×32'6"×21'6"] and tonnage 1318 GRT and 1247 NRT.

Rigged with royal sails and double topsails.
Unquote

Built in 1863 this describes highlights of her history including the following plus much more:

Quote 
1865 Dismasted in a gale off Madras and had to be repaired at Trincomalee.
1867 Sold to David Brown, London. Used in the India and South America trade. 
1871 Sold to Shaw, Savill & Co., London. She was intended for passenger and freight on the New Zealand trade. 
1897 Sold to Hawaiian owners. 
1899 Sold to the Pacific Colonial Ship Co. (J.J. Moore), San Francisco, CA. 
1900 October 30 US registry. 
1901 Sold to the Alaska Packers' Association, San Francisco, and was re-rigged as a three-masted barque. Used in the Alaskan salmon cannery industry. 
1906 Renamed the Star of India 
1908 Re-rigged as a barque 
1923 Last sailing season 
1926 Sold to James Wood Coffroth for the Zoological Society of San Diego, CA. To be used as the centerpiece of a planned museum and acquarium. 
1959 A group of citizens of San Diego formed the "Star of India Auxiliary" to support the restoration of the ship. Presently a museum ship in San Diego.
Unquote

There are many more voyage details like the examples below: 

Quote
1873 Sailed from the British Isles to Dunedin in 117 days. 
1874 April 25 - August 30 Sailed from London to Wellington in 127 days. 
1875 December 14 - April 11 Sailed from London to Lyttleton in 119 days. 
1876 January 1 - April 11 Sailed from the British Isles to Lyttleton in 100 days.
Unquote

I took the following four color photographs (scanned from paper pictures) 1992 from https://www.nps.gov/cabr/index.htm Cabrillo National Monument California.

Attached:

StarIndia1992-001-E.jpg 
There were SO many spectators that I needed to sneak this picture in between two people. The view below is the Ballast Point area of San Diego Silver Gate ship channel. Star of India being towed out by tug. Gray US Navy floating dry dock. I have seen Nuke Subs in that dock. The buildings are Navy Personnel Housing. They also have a couple of multi-story, motel type, Navy housing on floating barge hulls. 

StarIndia1992-003-E.jpg
Note the CHP - California Highway Patrol - helicopter.

StarIndia1992-006-E.jpg
StarIndia1992-007-E.jpg
Later in the day sailing back in Silver Gate. Bottom of the middle mast is that a blown out sail?

Attached:
1873-StarIndia-Shaw-Savill-Euterpe.jpg (60.0 KB) 
StarIndia1992-001-E.jpg (50.9 KB) 
StarIndia1992-003-E.jpg (59.6 KB) 
StarIndia1992-006-E.jpg (62.2 KB) 
StarIndia1992-007-E.jpg (66.2 KB)

Greg Hayden


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## Shipbuilder

Fairly similar, although mine was a barque with only the fore and mainmasts square-rigged, the mizzen being fore-and aft sails only. _Euterpe_ was initially a full-rigged ship, square on all three, but is now a barque, and the painted ports have gone.
Bob


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## makko

Shipbuilder said:


> I find it extremely easy! Stretch a bit of fine copper wire slightly with two small pairs of pliers, and put it down again. It will not spring back like an elastic band, but will remain straight. Cut off the length required with a scalpel, measuring with dividers. Pick it up in centre with tweezers. Dip each end in contact adhesive, and place it in position on the model. No knots, nothing fiddly at all, but very few ship modellers ever try, the usual comment being "I could never do that!"
> Bob


Brilliant! I build plastic aircraft kits, mostly WW2. I have just finished a Stuka and have now started a Condor 8. I have never been able to "stretch sprue", it usually goes on fire or doesn't go thin enough. I shall try your tip for antennaes - It will (if I can do it!) make a big difference to my models.

I have recently been building a lot of wings-up carrier aircraft and have to find the time to take some photos and upload to the gallery.

Thanks, Bob!
Rgds.
Dave


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## stein

So what are those davits aft of the sidelights for? Here (in my link) she has an ordinary anchor tackle rigged from the cross trees, and she would not have that if they were meant to serve as anchor davits, I think. But then she would not have cat-heads either... http://www.clydeships.co.uk/view.php?ref=5785


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## Shipbuilder

_East African_ davits.
They certainly weren't for the anchors as they are too far back! I have no idea. I must have put them there because they were visible in a photograph, but after all this time, can't remember. I would not normally put davits in that position.
Bob


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## Shipbuilder

I have now begun the masting and rigging, starting with the shrouds and ratlines on the fore lower mast, topmast and t'gallant mast, plus the forestay and cap stays. The next task will be to set up similar rigging on the main and mizzen. Then with the three masts firmly stayed, I will move on to setting and rigging the fore and aft sails before completing the standing rigging. Sometimes, I wonder if any other fellow model shipbuilders build this type of ship, as I haven't seen any others around in ages, although the viewing figures here are extremely high!
Bob


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## makko

Beautiful, Bob! Makes my eyes hurt just looking at the photo.
Rgds.
Dave


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## Shipbuilder

Thanks,
For anyone interested in this type of model ship construction, various details with illustrations are given in the 30-page practi*** : Scratchbuilding Merchant Sailing Ships, A Dying Art. This is one of the first practi***s that I made, and although it has no plans in it, it gives a lot of basic modelling hints and tips, including making the seas with the polystyrene foam method, namely, the steel barque _Marjory Glen_, shown here, plus the basics of rigging with wire. The practi*** is 30 pages in length. Click this link, and scroll down to read the synopsis. Then, if you wish to purchase a download, a Paypal button is provided for £2.49. http://payhip.com/b/RnMf
Bob


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## Shipbuilder

I have now completed the remainder of the shrouds and ratlines, but not yet fitted them. They are made from tinned copper wire, soldered together. The silver ones show a pair of them before spraying with black paint. This is not a difficult, or even time-consuming process. Unfortunately, however, most ship modellers decide that it is too difficult, and return to the time-honoured methods of setting up each shroud separately, and then settling down to tie hundreds of tiny knots to put the ratlines on. I am very grateful that I do not possess the patience and dedication to even contemplate that sort of thing!(Jester)
Bob


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## Shipbuilder

Saturday, 19th May, 2018 - Iron barque -
I have now completed all 16 sets of shrouds and backstays, plus the capstays on each mast. The bowsprit stays have also been fitted. The next task is quite a boring one, set and rig 13 jibs and staysails. - Bob


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## Farmer John

I am really enjoying watching this magic model take shape. My wife is wonderfully dexterous and infinitely patient but she will persist in making quilts. If only I could turn her to this.


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## Shipbuilder

John,
The problem is seldom about skills, or lack of them when it comes to miniatures, it is more a question of if they actually want to do it. My wife usually paints the seas on the models, and has occasionally made figureheads or done a bit of fancy painting. She even started a topsail schooner build once. It was coming along OK, but she got fed up of it and stopped.
Maybe it is a bit of an incentive if you wife was told that these miniatures can fetch hndreds of pounds, and occasionally top the £1,000 mark!:sweat:
Bob


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## Shipbuilder

Monday, 21st May, 2018
I have now set and rigged seven of the 13 jibs and staysails - quite a tedious task. I am now 39 days into the build, having worked a total of 65 hours on it so far. I am very pleased with how it is going. It has an unusual number of jibs and staysails, and I will be glad when they are complete, and I can move on to completing the standing rigging, and setting and rigging the twelve square sails, spanker and gaff topsail. Bob


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## Shipbuilder

Once again, not much interest in this one from fellow ship modellers, and a disaster all round!(Sad) I eventually completed it, and sold it within a few days to someone on the continent for several hundred pounds. Sent it out via insured delivery courier. They badly damaged it on the way out, and added considerably more damage to it on the way back. I refunded the buyer in full, including transport costs, and put in an insurance claim 32 days ago. So far, they have said "damage limited to sails!" but not offered to pay me anything. They are now ignoring my e-mails. This has virtually finished me as far as model shipbuilding is concerned. No longer prepared to send them out by courier, even in UK, so it is collection only from now one. I am realistic enough to realise that very few will go along with this, but at age 74, I guess it doesn't matter all that much. I have pretty much recovered from the shock, and I am building again, but at a very slow rate. Here are the before and after images. 
Bob


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## Bill Morrison

A crying shame Bob. If anything of a fragile nature is entrusted to any of the couriers or shipping companies is a 50/50 chance it will arrive in tact.
It can be a risk to send things of high value even if insured as the object may have a higher value to the recipient than the insured value.
I know of one case where a piece of art work went missing between the UK and New York, in hind sight if the person involved had managed to come to the UK they would almost certainly be in possession of it.
I hope you are still going to make a few models for your own pleasure and display them here from time to time as I and some others on SN enjoy watching your progress.
Bill


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## Shipbuilder

Thanks Bill,
We have been quite lucky really, they have safely delivered 49 models for us in the last ten years to as far away as the Far East, Australia, USA, the Continent as well as a lot in the UK and Ireland. I know damage can occur, but it is partucularly annoying when they go silent on the insurance. Still heard nothing! There are a small number of collectors who live locally, so production will not cease as long as they want them. I should be able to repair the _Gulf Stream_, but am reluctant to do anything to it until the insurance is sorted out, one way or the other! The repair will not be easy, as it is stuck in the sea, and is therefore harder to move around during re-rigging. Also will need to guard against damaging the sea!
Bob


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## jerome morris

Not easy to repair a model that was just finished a short time ago.
Good luck with the insurance company and the model repair Bob.


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## Shipbuilder

Thanks Jerome,
That is correct. Today, they agreed to pay 66% of my claim which is better than expected, so it is no longer a total disaster, but still bad enough! Collection only from now on! Too much stress over the past 34 days - I can now move on.
Bob


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