# CITY OF ADELAIDE - World's oldest clipper ship to make final voyage. - Merged threads



## jbryce

It looks like moves to save the old vessel are to be abandoned following a consultant's report saying that she can not be restored to an acceptable level. 
The Sunderland Maritime Heritage group has been seeking to acquire the vessel since 2000, after it was first announced that she was to be dismantled.The ship was built at Sunderland in 1864 at William Pile's shipyard for trade to Australia and it was hoped to restore her in Sunderland and make her the centrepiece of a local Maritime Centre, to commemorate the proud shipbuilding history of the River Wear.
She has been rotting away in Glasgow since sinking in 1991 and has listed building status. It is understood that the Scottish Maritime Museum will have to seek Government permission to dismanle her.
(Good news about this ship, see posts from 12th August 2006) (Applause)


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## Pat McCardle

jbryce said:


> It looks like moves to save the old vessel are to be abandoned following a consultant's report saying that she can not be restored to an acceptable level.
> The Sunderland Maritime Heritage group has been seeking to acquire the vessel since 2000, after it was first announced that she was to be dismantled.The ship was built at Sunderland in 1864 at William Pile's shipyard for trade to Australia and it was hoped to restore her in Sunderland and make her the centrepiece of a local Maritime Centre, to commemorate the proud shipbuilding history of the River Wear.
> She has been rotting away in Glasgow since sinking in 1991 and has listed building status. It is understood that the Scottish Maritime Museum will have to seek Government permission to dismanle her.


See gallery/sailing ships I posted the postcard print & info this morning.
Regards, Pat


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## tom e kelso

*s.v. Carrick*

The Carrick, originally the wool clipper City of Adelaide, and which also carried passengers on the outward leg to Oz, and penultimately the RNVR club ship in Glasgow passed to ownership of the Scottish Maritime Museum about 1992. Since then, she has been "mouldering" high and dry on a slipway which originally was part of the long defunct shipyard at Irvine. All efforts to obtain finance for her restoration over the intervening years have proved fruitless; this ,in addition to the Sunderland approach, latterly included interest from the South Australian government with the object of transporting her on a pontoon/dock-ship to Adelaide for restoration there.
Apart from justifying the cost, the plan apparently fell through because of the problems there would be in getting the sea-going pontoon over the bar into Irvine harbour without very considerable dredging costs.
Up until 2 or 3 years ago, no rent was charged for the use of the slipway, but when this changed it became an added burden to the running costs of the museum which could not be sustained. Formal application has now been made to demolish what is in effect a "listed building"

Tom Kelso


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## BarryM

The problem with the CoA was that although "everybody" said she must be preserved, "nobody" was actually prepared to put hand in pocket and stump up. The irony of it is that when somebody appeared in 2005 who was prepared to spend - and spend heavily - on restoration, it was too late. An extensive and in-depth survey revealed that by the time all the rotten bits were replaced, the end result would have been a replica and not a restored original. A case of "jack-up funnel, fit new ship". Thus the best that can be achieved is to record its demolition for posterity and salvage sections to demonstrate the composite iron/teak construction.


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## James MacDonald

*Carrick*

Ive just seen the Scottish TV news about the intention of breaking up of the Carrick ,one of the last Clyde built clippers. At present she lies in a sorry state beached in Irvine with little chance of being restored ( a price of 15M GBP was mentioned ) Glaswegians remember her with fondness berthed at Clyde street for many years as the RNVR Club. During the news clip the news reader said her initial name was the City of Adelaide ,Well Im over the moon as Im presently looking at my wall with a large painting of the City of Adelaide. How is that for coincidence.


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## Gulpers

James,

Lots on Carrick on the Web.
Here are a couple of examples: (Thumb) 
http://www.historyscotland.com/features/svcarrick.html
http://www.worldshiptrust.org/save.html


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## Pat McCardle

James MacDonald said:


> Ive just seen the Scottish TV news about the intention of breaking up of the Carrick ,one of the last Clyde built clippers. At present she lies in a sorry state beached in Irvine with little chance of being restored ( a price of 15M GBP was mentioned ) Glaswegians remember her with fondness berthed at Clyde street for many years as the RNVR Club. During the news clip the news reader said her initial name was the City of Adelaide ,Well Im over the moon as Im presently looking at my wall with a large painting of the City of Adelaide. How is that for coincidence.


Err!! Clyde built (EEK) No way James (Ouch) She was built at William Pile's SUNDERLAND yard as City of Adelaide (Thumb) The members of Sunderland Maritime Heritage have had so many attempts at getting funding for Her so as to restore Her to Her former glory but have been knocked back. Look at www.sunderlandmaritimeheritage.org.uk for a full history. (Thumb) What TV station were you watching?


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## John_F

During the news clip the news reader said her initial name was the City of Adelaide ,Well Im over the moon as Im presently looking at my wall with a large painting of the City of Adelaide. How is that for coincidence.[/QUOTE]James,
Snap! Here's my painting, oil on board:
http://www.shipsnostalgia.com/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/15701/sort/1/cat/524/page/1
Painting is by C.J.Guise & executed, I think, about the turn of the last Century.
Kind regards,
John F.


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## Pat McCardle

John_F said:


> During the news clip the news reader said her initial name was the City of Adelaide ,Well Im over the moon as Im presently looking at my wall with a large painting of the City of Adelaide. How is that for coincidence.


James,
Snap! Here's my painting, oil on board:
http://www.shipsnostalgia.com/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/15701/sort/1/cat/524/page/1
Painting is by C.J.Guise & executed, I think, about the turn of the last Century.
Kind regards,
John F.[/QUOTE]

What station?


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## James MacDonald

*Carrick*



Pat McCardle said:


> Err!! Clyde built (EEK) No way James (Ouch) She was built at William Pile's SUNDERLAND yard as City of Adelaide (Thumb) The members of Sunderland Maritime Heritage have had so many attempts at getting funding for Her so as to restore Her to Her former glory but have been knocked back. Look at www.sunderlandmaritimeheritage.org.uk for a full history. (Thumb) What TV station were you watching?


Sorry Pat,
I must have picked her up wrong, but she was in Glasgow for so long she is almost ours anyway.


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## Pat McCardle

James MacDonald said:


> Sorry Pat,
> I must have picked her up wrong, but she was in Glasgow for so long she is almost ours anyway.


Hi! James. A sorry state She is in. A few members from SMH have been to see Her on a few occaisions at Irvine but the end is nigh for what is only one of 3 composite built ships left in the world.


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## 6639

it's quite amazing that such a repulsion to scrapping the vessel is made by such a government as the australian parliament and yet one doesn't see them leading by example and dipping into their deep purses and coughing up a few million to help save such a fine vessel.if all of these substantial protesters put their money where their mouths are instead of relying on us little people all the time,we wouldn't let such heritage be squandered in such vast quantities.


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## dom

*U.k.adelaide's Most Historic Ship Saved?*

a u.k. commercial property developer,Tim Roper,is attempting to save the highly significant Carrick, ex City of Adelide,HMS Carrick ,described as the earliest surviving clipper ship and the only wooden sailing passenger ship of the 19th cent.in Great Britain.
Mr Roper now owns the 176ft long vessel that was facing imminent destruction at her slipway in scotland. the new owner plans to move the 860 tonne ship to falmouth as a floating restaurant,art gallery,hotel collage or office space near Trelissick gardens, accessible by road or river.
launched in Sunderland in 1864 City of Adelaide carried cargo and passengers beyween London and Adelaide,Aust. researchers have estimated that more than 60% of the currant populaton of the state of South Australia can trace their families arrival in Australia to the City of Adelaide.
in 1887 she was sold and ued for cargo only,first as a collier between the Tyne and Dover,and then on the north atlantic timber trade.in 1893,she was converted to a floating isolation hospital on the river Test at Southamton,the british admiralty bought her as a training ship for volunteer reservist in 1923 and renamed her HMS.Carrick and towed her to Irvine on the Clyde, where she remained untill 1949.
renamed Carrick,she was moved to Greenock and commissioned as a naval drill ship,then late used as a Roya lNavy Volunteer Reserves of Scotland Headquarters untillshe wa abandoned in 1990. by 1991 the then 127yr old was close to being a total loss,but was salvaged by the Scottish Maritime Museum and moved to Irvine in 1992 for further restoration as a static exhibit,however,funds were not available to prevent the ship from decay


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## jbryce

*City of Adelaide*

(Applause) Hope that the project comes to fruition as I would hate to see the ship broken up and scrapped.



 dom said:


> a u.k. commercial property developer,Tim Roper,is attempting to save the highly significant Carrick, ex City of Adelide,HMS Carrick ,described as the earliest surviving clipper ship and the only wooden sailing passenger ship of the 19th cent.in Great Britain.
> Mr Roper now owns the 176ft long vessel that was facing imminent destruction at her slipway in scotland. the new owner plans to move the 860 tonne ship to falmouth as a floating restaurant,art gallery,hotel collage or office space near Trelissick gardens, accessible by road or river.
> launched in Sunderland in 1864 City of Adelaide carried cargo and passengers beyween London and Adelaide,Aust. researchers have estimated that more than 60% of the currant populaton of the state of South Australia can trace their families arrival in Australia to the City of Adelaide.
> in 1887 she was sold and ued for cargo only,first as a collier between the Tyne and Dover,and then on the north atlantic timber trade.in 1893,she was converted to a floating isolation hospital on the river Test at Southamton,the british admiralty bought her as a training ship for volunteer reservist in 1923 and renamed her HMS.Carrick and towed her to Irvine on the Clyde, where she remained untill 1949.
> renamed Carrick,she was moved to Greenock and commissioned as a naval drill ship,then late used as a Roya lNavy Volunteer Reserves of Scotland Headquarters untillshe wa abandoned in 1990. by 1991 the then 127yr old was close to being a total loss,but was salvaged by the Scottish Maritime Museum and moved to Irvine in 1992 for further restoration as a static exhibit,however,funds were not available to prevent the ship from decay


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## Pat McCardle

See www.sunderlandmaritimeheritage.org.uk for further details / hstory of vessel. Good news indeed (Thumb) She is actually the oldest surviving composite built vessels in the world.


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## Gulpers

*Merged Threads*

There were three separate threads on City of Adelaide / HMS Carrick.
I’ve merged them together for continuity’s sake. (*))


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## Pat McCardle

Well done & Thanks Ray (Applause)


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## Gulpers

Nae bother Pat (*))


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## Ian

*Hms Carrick*



jbryce said:


> It looks like moves to save the old vessel are to be abandoned following a consultant's report saying that she can not be restored to an acceptable level.
> The Sunderland Maritime Heritage group has been seeking to acquire the vessel since 2000, after it was first announced that she was to be dismantled.The ship was built at Sunderland in 1864 at William Pile's shipyard for trade to Australia and it was hoped to restore her in Sunderland and make her the centrepiece of a local Maritime Centre, to commemorate the proud shipbuilding history of the River Wear.
> She has been rotting away in Glasgow since sinking in 1991 and has listed building status. It is understood that the Scottish Maritime Museum will have to seek Government permission to dismanle her.
> (Good news about this ship, see posts from 12th August 2006) (Applause)


From the Scotish Sun the Carrick is to be saved made into floating Hotel dated 24th cant remember where its getting moved to she frew the paper out but its def in it good news though.
Bobby(Glasgow)


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## jbryce

bobby388 said:


> From the Scotish Sun the Carrick is to be saved made into floating Hotel dated 24th cant remember where its getting moved to she frew the paper out but its def in it good news though.
> Bobby(Glasgow)


I believe it is going to Falmouth, more info here:
http://www.sunderlandtoday.co.uk/ViewArticle2.aspx?SectionID=1107&ArticleID=1694894&ArticlePage=1


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## BarryM

*The Facts*

Sorry to throw cold water on this thread but The CoA/Carrick has not been sold and is still very definitely owned by the Scottish Maritime Museum and no other. Mr Roper has made an approach to the SMM but has not made a detailed offer nor concluded a deal to date (13/10/06)

As the vessel is, uniquely, an 'A' listed building, an application for 'Recorded Deconstruction' is shortly (November) to be considered by North Ayshire Council. If granted the deconstruction will be filmed, photographed, drawings made and whatever can be saved will be conserved to demonstrate the construction and trade. If possible, parts may be donated to other museums etc., with an interest.

As I wrote above, by the time somebody came up with the money to spend on the vessel, she was just too far gone. By the time all the heavily corroded frames and rotten timbers were replaced, very, very little of the original ship would be left. Cheaper to build a replica - which is just what the old lady would become. Very sad but ships are only built for a limited life and the CoA was well past her sell-by date and nobody until now (much, much too late) was prepared to fund any work. When the UK values its Maritime Heritage instead of just paying lip-service to it, other vessels may not be too late to be saved but don't hold your breath.


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## Semaj

Funny enough I was looking at an old Taggart serial titled Cold Blood and the old HMS Carrick was shown in better times, I can't believe Glasgow let it get into that state.(MAD)


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## john shaw

this is a photo of the City of York, of about the same vintage i believe to the Adelaide, but feel free to correct me if I am mistaken


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## Iain Crosbie

Carrick now to be "deconstructed". For story see this link:
http://www.theherald.co.uk/news/news/display.var.1133748.0.0.php


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## Bruce Carson

*Carrick to be Broken Up*

The Glasgow Herald reports today that the North Ayrshire Council planning commission has granted consent to allow the ship to be broken up. Those at a council meeting agreed that the vessel was beyond the point of being a successful restoration project.

http://www.sunderlandmaritimeheritage.org.uk/adelaide.htm
http://www.historyscotland.com/features/svcarrick.html
http://www.nhsc.org.uk/index.cfm/event/getVessel/vref/	433
http://www.ilfsac.org.uk/sthaust_cofa.php

Bruce C


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## jay cresswell

Carrick 

Pity we can't do something with the Carrick given the way the New Zealanders rescued the Edwin Fox, which was in dreadful condition
Jay Cresswell
Aberdeen


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## Chris Isaac

If they sign Hargreaves from Bayern they won't need Carrick !


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## jbryce

*A petition has been started to save the vessel and background is as follows, please support and sign the petition. Many thanks in anticipation of a favourable response:*

The City of Adelaide is the older sister of the Cutty Sark. These two ships are the last two 19th century composite clipper ships left anywhere in the world. While the Cutty Sark is the last tea clipper in the world, the City of Adelaide is the last passenger clipper ship. As such she is the forerunner of the SS Great Britain and the ocean liners. As a result the City of Adelaide is a maritime icon of international historical significance. 

She has the potential to contribute hugely to culture, tourism and the local economy. While the SS Great Britain being the first ocean liner tells the story of the early ocean liners, the City of Adelaide uniquely can tell the story of their sailing predecessors - the passenger clipper ships. She is a forgotten icon and must be safeguarded, her condition stabilised and then eventually restored to her former glory. If she is scrapped now this option will be ruled out forever. To lose this unique, priceless and irreplaceable historic ship would be a national tragedy, scandalous, unforgivable and a huge loss to Britain's cultural heritage. 

She was later used as a stationary hospital and accommodation hulk, and then spent many years as a floating Naval Reserve clubhouse in Glasgow as HMS Carrick from 1923 to 1990.. 


PLEASE SAVE THE WORLD'S LAST PASSENGER CLIPPER SHIP - THE CITY OF ADELAIDE BY CLICKING ON THIS LINK:

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/cuttysarksister/

She is currently at the Scottish Maritime Museum in Irvine. You will find the historic details of her here: 

http://www.nhsc.org.uk/index.cfm/event/getVessel/vref/433


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## BarryM

*Don't waste your time*

Will any of the signatories put their hands in their pockets rather than just sign their names and why haven't they done so in the past? Some will - most wont and that's the tragedy of this vessel: too little and far too late. The City of Adelaide is simply too far gone to be saved and, as I have explained before, restoration would be so extensive that all that would result would be a replica. There are other vessels which _*can *_be saved - far better to finance those.

The Scottish Maritime Museum Trust which owns the CoA is struggling to get enough funding to keep the other artefacts it has in good order and at present cannot open year-round because it cannot afford the staff wages. Will the petition signatories contribute to those?

These sort of petitions are just too easy to sign up to; far more difficult to take concrete action.

Barry M


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## BarryM

The petition also has its facts wrong,i.e. "The City of Adelaide was the forerunner of the SS Great Britain".

The GB was built 1843 - The CoA was built 1863.


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## Pat McCardle

From tonight's, 01.08.07, Sunderland Echo. Yout thought's shipmates?


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## quietman

God save us from the philistines


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## DAVIDJM

far more better to have upright and rebuilt and enclosed at the centre of a seafront complex, that is if she cant be refloated and put back to sea again


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## BarryM

DAVIDJM said:


> far more better to have upright and rebuilt and enclosed at the centre of a seafront complex, that is if she cant be refloated and put back to sea again


David, She's simply too far gone and there is a strong suspicion that any attempt to relaunch her will cause her to break up. Adelaide and Sunderland have been offered sections of her but they are not interested; the moneys' not there.

BarryM


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## gdynia

No doubt another piece of Maritime History lost to us


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## BarryM

Not lost entirely. Sections retained by the Scottish Maritime Museum will demonstrate why the ship's construction is so special and various artefacts will also be retained. Film, still photos, plans and various other written records will also be kept. At the end of the day, if nobody is prepared to put their hand in their pocket (and for all the noise from various quarters this never happened) then the Museum has no alternative. Better for something to survive than nothing at all and the ship is well beyond restoration. I've no doubt that when this all happens that some people will still be wringing their hands and crying about the desecration of our Heritage. Simple truth - Heritage costs - and too few are prepared to contribute.


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## quietman

BarryM said:


> David, She's simply too far gone and there is a strong suspicion that any attempt to relaunch her will cause her to break up. Adelaide and Sunderland have been offered sections of her but they are not interested; the moneys' not there.
> 
> BarryM


Ive been away for a few days so have not seen any press on the adelaide, but have seen reports in the press stating that she is not in as bad condition as some reports would have us believe.


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## SN NewsCaster

*Clipper ship is thrown lifeline (BBC News)*

A firm is appointed to review the future of the world's oldest passenger clipper ship, The City Of Adelaide.

More from BBC News...


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## Doug Shaw

SN members from Glasgow would likely know this vessel as the _SV Carrick_. I could be wrong, but I think at one time she was used as the HQ for the RNVR (Glasgow) or for some similar function.

Regards
Doug


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## S. Toth

Hopefully the best will come from this. She is such a historical piece, older then the cutty sark.


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## gordy

Doug, your right.
I managed to get aboard her after her move from the city centre berth to Prices Dock. 
I think she had a bit of an incident with one of Glasgow's bridges on the way down.
There was such a feeling of optimism that she was going to be looked after, sadly it was downhill all the way.


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## Scurdie

Doug Shaw said:


> SN members from Glasgow would likely know this vessel as the _SV Carrick_. I could be wrong, but I think at one time she was used as the HQ for the RNVR (Glasgow) or for some similar function.
> 
> Regards
> Doug


Yes, Doug, that is indeed correct. She was a landmark in the centre of Glasgow in the 1970's. The RNVR let some of the space aboard to other organisations too; for example, the Ocean Youth Club's Scottish office was aboard her for a while. Unfortunately, she sank at her berth there on at least one occasion, apparently because she settled at low tide on some old piles that punctured her hull. Now ashore in Irvine, her present rotting state is an eyesore, and there have been moves for her demolition. Sad though that would be, my personal view is that restoration from her present condition would leave very little that is original, and therefore be of questionable value.


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## Don Matheson

As Scurdie says her present condition is very poor and she is indeed an eyesore. It is proposed to move her from Irvine, a place I thought was her last chance ever, and its been mentioned that Adelaide would like to take her. 
Personally I dont think she would get off the slip and on to a barge. She would then need to be lifted to a larger barge for towing to Australia or kept on the barge and lifted or floated onto a transporter for her voyage.
Having known her for many years it hurts me to say I dont think they can do it and I honestly dont think it would be worth it.
I would love to be proved wrong but I doubt I will.

Don


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## eriskay

In my view, she was still salvageable when she came down from the Clyde to the specially prepared berth at Irvine but was simply left there to deteriorate as the years passed on. The old story - insufficient funds and interest. In later years, she was covered (cocooned) in plastic - probably the worst thing that could have been done as any water or dampness was retained and accelerated the rotting and corrison process with humidity, condensation, etc. Whereas if left open she would have at least had the wind drying her out as fast as she got wetted.

I don't think there was an incident when she was moved from her old berth into the river and passed under the bridge. That was all carefully planned beforehand and she cleared it by the claculated few inches. (A friend and work colleague travelled down on her and photographed the entire operation) She did take the ground again when lying alongside at Princes Dock and had to be repaired again and refloated for the rerst of her passage down to Ayrshire - perhaps that's what Gordy heard about?

Have heard all the rumours of her going back to Adelaide, or Sunderland where she was built by William Pile, but even ten years ago she was not fit for either. Her frames are in very poor condition and she could not sustain pulling/lifting/flotation etc. The extent of frame replacement, and complete replacement of her double skin timbers, would no longer reflect restoration or preservation but rather renewal. As has been mentioned above by Scurdie, the value of such an exercise is questionable, and certainly the very high cost involved would not be justified - probaly in excess of £15 millions.

Considering the history of this vessel, and the fact that the is one of only two of that class (composite construction fast clipper) remaining, it is tragic that in this country we cannot do what has been successfully done in the Scandanavian countries, America, Canada, etc., given our long and once-proud maritime heritage.


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## eriskay

Couple of images posted in my Gallery


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## Gulpers

*City of Adelaide probably heading for Australia*

BBC News report:

The City of Adelaide was built in Sunderland in 1864 and has lain on a Scottish slipway for 10 years.

Scottish Culture Minister Fiona Hyslop has now named a group from Adelaide, Australia, as the preferred bidder.

Campaigners from Sunderland said they would fight on to bring the ship back to the North East.

Ms Hyslop said: "The City of Adelaide has an illustrious past shared by two nations, Scotland and Australia."

"This bid gives us the opportunity to save the ship, build on that link and open up the potential for both countries to recognise partnerships and shared heritage on an international scale."

BBC article *here*


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## Ray Mac

Like a lot of things wrong with Sunderland, we have a council with no ambition.(egg) or vision. Maritime history none in Sunderland.

Ray


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## Billieboy

Burned Toast said:


> Like a lot of things wrong with Sunderland, we have a council with no ambition.(egg) or vision. Maritime history none in Sunderland.
> 
> Ray


They must have left all their enlightenment at the football stadium!


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## Gulpers

Burned Toast said:


> Like a lot of things wrong with Sunderland, we have a council with no ambition.(egg) or vision. Maritime history none in Sunderland.
> 
> Ray


Ray (Burned Toast),

To be fair, the Scots don't seem to have covered themselves with glory over this matter either! [=P]


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## chadburn

Gulpers said:


> Ray (Burned Toast),
> 
> To be fair, the Scots don't seem to have covered themselves with glory over this matter either! [=P]


Or the other vessel's they have in their "Care" including what was once a superb former RAF 60ft pinnace when it was delivered to them after a period in private hands.


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## BarryM

The covering on the CoA/Carrick is not "plastic" but a breathable membrane similar to Gortex and it lets the air through but resists water. Funding for this was provided by a businessman who at one time had an interest in restoring her.


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## Don Matheson

Can you tell me more Barry as I live quite close to her and am interested in anything that can be done with the Carrick. Despite any covering that you mention, I feel she could only be rebuilt where she is as any movement now would be fairly unpredictable due to her present condition.
Please tell us more

Don


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## BarryM

*Carrick/City of Adelaide*

Don,
As you can tell from the date it is quite a while since I last logged in here. 

Without going into all the ins and outs, at one time the Scottish Maritime Museum was reasonably well funded but the advent of smaller local authorities created a situation where the SMM had to live 'hand to mouth' and teetering on the brink of bankruptcy. Why is the Irvine operation only open for part of the year? Because it cannot afford to open full-time. The financial position has improved over the past year but is still far from good and all industrial museums struggle. That being said, you can appreciate why so little was available to spend on the Carrick/City of Adelaide. By the time somebody came on the scene who was prepared to inject funds, it was too late and the scheme fell though as repairs would have left so little of the original that it would be a reproduction and not a restoration. Add to this, the idea of putting her back to sea was scuppered by modern Regs. 

The SMM idea was for controlled dismantling. Filming, sketching, making plans and retaining bits of what could be preserved. The Ayatollahs of various heritage trusts were horrified by this; as far as they were concerned the ship must be preserved intact and at all costs. This ignored the fact that they could not contribute anything in hard cash and neither would anybody else. 

I do know that when some of the concrete ballast was dug out all traces of the iron frames it contained had gone, the hull is in a pretty poor state and lifting/moving it would surely be problematic?. 

The Australians have decided to take her back home and seem to think it is feasible. I hear that they have constructed a lifting frame and are trying to ship it to Irvine. If they manage it, then what?

I understand they intend to roll the frame on hydraulic bogies to the dock which is just upstream of its present location, load it onto a barge, take it out to sea and back-load it onto a semi-sub transporter vessel.

Points to think of are:

1. Will the hull survive movement to the dock? There is bound to be some twisting of the frame.

2. How will a barge get up to the dock given the current silting of the channel and, even if it can in light condition, how will the laden barge get back to the sea?

3. Will the barge (with vessel still on top) be loaded onto the semi-sub transporter? If transfer from barge to transporter at sea is envisaged, a very large crane will have to be mobilised. 

I won't go on but you can see that this is a huge technical problem with no little expense and no certainty of success. 

Ships then and now, are built for a specific service life to give a financial return. Anything beyond that time incurs expense that plenty pay lip-service to but few, very few, are prepared to finance. I hope to be watching when - if? - the Australian team start operations but I'm not holding my breath that they will get her away in one piece - if at all.

Barry M


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## SkyFire

Thinking that the barge to semi-sub transporter could be easy, just load the barge onto the transpoter. ???


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## billywinkle

Why dont they just dismantle the ship and then rebuild it replacing what they need to when they get back to Australia?.


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## Don Matheson

SkyFire getting the barge onto the transporter is an everyday job to the transporters.
Getting City of Adelaide from her slipway to the barge may be its last ever move, dont care what people think, and i would love to be wrong. Moving her should have been done many years ago if ever. Another problem is she sits on a slip ad the water at the river end is very shallow as nothing has been launched there for many years so it has never been dredged. Irvine had her own bucket dredger to keep this area deep but I think she went about 1958-60.
Very shallow water right out to the sea now and I dont know is a tug with a large barge could get in to her.
Having very strong winds today but wont be able to see her until next week. Perhaps someone nearbye could get a photo to show her present condition.

Don


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## SkyFire

We will just have to see what happens, it would be nice if they can save her. Beginning to have doubts though. 

At the very least, hopefully someone can get lots of measurements off the hull, so a kit of her could be produced.


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## BarryM

billywinkle said:


> Why dont they just dismantle the ship and then rebuild it replacing what they need to when they get back to Australia?.


I'd suggest that:-

1. Money. The Australian project is very tight for cash and dismantling/transport and rebuilding will be very expensive.

2. The full hull survey showed that so much new timber would have to be put in that the result would be a reproduction and not a restoration. It would be cheaper to build a replica in Australia. NB The Australians intend to _conserve _the vessel as is; they do not have the cash to restore her.

Yes, back-loading a transport barge into a semi-sub transporter off the coast, weather permitting, is technically feasible. However, that ties up the barge until it is released in Adelaide and returned to the UK/Europe and that costs money in charter fees and towage. Unless some kind shipowner offers to donate the barge and towage free of charge (unlikely, given the distance involved) the Project Group will have to find the money to pay for it. Perhaps they do have the contingency to pay for it but they do not have funds to spare. 

The project is already at least 18 months behind schedule with no sign that anything can be done before Spring 2012. 

As Don confirms, the river has not been dredged for years and is heavily silted. (The SMM already have problems moving larger vessels without grounding.) I have not seen anything in the Australians' plans that indicate how they will overcome this problem. A fully deballasted cargo barge draws very little water but a barge loaded with the City of Adelaide certainly will. 

If the CoA was capable of bearing her own weight in the water without buckling, I suppose that you could strap floatation tanks alongside and launch her with salvage pumps going like the clappers. However, without the support of a cradle, it is very doubtful if she can be moved without breaking up.


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## Pat McCardle

So, by tonights local BBC news, HMS ADELAIDE has been bought by interests in the South Australian City of Adelaide. Where the hell does the BBC get their researchers from? This is not a new story, the majority of folk in Sunderland would like to see Her back to Her birthplace but have been hampered by a Labour council that has wasted £ooo's on fountains & floating dustbin lids to name a couple of follies. So, if Sunderland doesn't get City of Adelaide back I wish our Aussie cousins all the best with her preservation & restructuring.

What's happening with this country of ours, celebrating Great Britain as a former Empire(BBC1 tonight 2100) & Her Majesty's diamond jubilee & yet forgetting what gave us the title 'Great'......Our Shipbuilding & Seafarers!


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## Gulpers

Pat McCardle said:


> What's happening with this country of ours, celebrating Great Britain as a former Empire(BBC1 tonight 2100) & Her Majesty's diamond jubilee & yet forgetting what gave us the title 'Great'......Our Shipbuilding & Seafarers!


Hear, hear Pat. (Applause)
When I saw that you had resurrected this thread, I thought that you were going to tell us how much restoration work had been completed on ADELAIDE in Adelaide. Wishful thinking, eh! [=P]


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## frangio

Saw on the news the other night that she had been "occupied" in protest over the move. Irvine is just up the coast from me and unfortunately I think the museum's original plans just were not matched by their budget. Still, if they hadn't saved her at the time there would be no remains to argue over! Just a shame that the UK doesn't seem to value it's Maritime Heritage.

From a personal point of view I will be very sad to see her go. I remember her as the Carrick, RNVR club, moored at Glasgow and walked past her almost dailly when at Nautical College!


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## Chillytoes

As some members have already pointed out, the money is not there for such projects. The bottom line really is that you cannot possibly save everything. Wherever could you put it all? And who would look after it?
For any restoration project there must be a realistic plan for its future so that the hopefully finished result (provided it does not run out of steam beforehand) does not merely become a sink demanding more and more money.


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## 5036

I live not far away and it has broken my heart to watch her deteriorate. I attended several RNVR functions on her in the 70's and 80's, the last being a week before her first sinking. The museum at Irvine are underfunded and lacking in professional management, they never had any chance of doing anything with this old lady. No-one else at that time wanted her so I suppose the very fact that she ended up in Irvine saved some of her.

If Adelaide do take her, I hope they do a complete restoration so that future generations can see the magnificence of British Naval architecture, technology of the time and the shipbuilding skills that we were once proud of. It seems that we Brits are incapable of doing it ourselves.

ps Imagine if a bank spent a few million on her instead of putting it into the pockets of their chief gambling staff. PR, job creation, inspiration of future generations - all things that create wealth - which can be put into a bank account.

Good Wiki article here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_of_Adelaide_(1864)


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## John Briggs

*CITY OF ADELAIDE - World's oldest clipper ship to make final voyage.*

The link attached takes you to the City of Adelaide website with a countdown to the final voyage from Scotland to Australia.

I found the website fascinating with many interesting videos and the story of this wonderful restoration project.

http://cityofadelaide.org.au/


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## TOM ALEXANDER

Wow!! John. You got me all excited with the heading -- "Final voyage" ---immediately conjured up a vision of her running down her Easting, full and bye with stuns'ls set and a bone in her teeth. But if she can be saved the same way as the Cutty Sark, well jolly good show! Real nostalgia here! (Thumb)(Thumb)


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## Cisco

I signed some petition regarding her preservation in Scotland some years ago . However her future looked excedingly gloomy and I thought she had been cut up and burnt by now.

Goodon'em...


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## Pat McCardle

Well lets hope you Aussies can do what we in Sunderland wanted to do with Her. Good luck!!


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## Ray Mac

Pat McCardle said:


> Well lets hope you Aussies can do what we in Sunderland wanted to do with Her. Good luck!!


They had more vision Pat, than our councillors a shower of sh***te(H)


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## ben27

good day john briggs,forever a seaman.24th aug,2013,11:48.re:city of Adelaide, worlds oldest clipper ship makes final voyage,thank you for posting the informative link.and thanks to all the volonteeres who made it possible.to preserve this historical vessel.regards ben27


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## 5036

I pass her every day and am familiar with her as the office of The Clyde Cruising Club in the 70's and 80's when she belonged to the RNVR. 

In the 70's GlasgowCorporation tried to charge rates on her but David Shaw was able to argue that the ship could be ready to got sea in an hour but the only thing stopping it was the Corporation's Jamaica Bridge.

I was on board at a twenty first birthday party the week before she sank in 1989 and saw her after her second sinking in 1991. I pass her most days on the slip at Irvine and a sorry sight she is. I hope her future is secured but one thing is for sure, there will be a lot of new timber. The analogy of a wooden boat is "I have owned this brush for forty years. It has had five handles and forty brush heads but it is as good as the day I bought it."


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## Gulpers

BBC article *here* on City of Adelaide's hand over to Australian Group.


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## 5036

She is now on a barge and away from her land berth.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-24009434


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## John Gurton

We have it booked into Chatham about 21st September for 6 weeks. Might be about same time as the Medway Queen gets towed in to Gillingham Dock.


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## Pat McCardle

http://cityofadelaide.org.au/the-project/transportation.html


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## A.D.FROST

When its gone its GONE


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## brvhrtjimmy

*city of adelaide*

not quite sure what forum to put this,but if this isn't the corect one maybe a moderater could move it,anyway its about the city of Adelaide,i put a couple of photos on and I see on some other photos that's been uploaded theres been some comments in the form of questions about the project,well I just thought this link would answer most of them plus any more that's in the offing 
http://cityofadelaide.org.au/
hope its is of interest 


Brvhrtjimmy


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## barry john macauley

brvhrtjimmy said:


> not quite sure what forum to put this,but if this isn't the corect one maybe a moderater could move it,anyway its about the city of Adelaide,i put a couple of photos on and I see on some other photos that's been uploaded theres been some comments in the form of questions about the project,well I just thought this link would answer most of them plus any more that's in the offing
> http://cityofadelaide.org.au/
> hope its is of interest
> 
> 
> Brvhrtjimmy


Surprised that this post has not garnered more interest.
It is truly heartwarming that there are such selfless and dedicated people among us. Good luck with the nearly complete project Brvhrtjimmy.
On a lighter note, it is nice to know that some of the punters went willingly in those far off days.
barry mac.
(Applause)


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## brvhrtjimmy

yes extremely dissapointing,didnt expect such lack of interest the meagre 70 odd views  kinda sorry i posted it now.
Brvhrtjimmy


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## Biggles Wader

See the other thread in "Tall Ships"
And good for the Aussies.Did what no one else could get together.


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## brvhrtjimmy

thanks Biggles Waderi had no idea when i put my post on that this one was here so thanks again,i have photos of the work thats going on that i took a couple of day ago,i put one of the tug on here and one of her on the barge on here also.

Brvhrtjimmy)


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## eriskay

*City of Adelaide / Carrick*

City of Adelaide departed Irvine harbour at top of the tide this afternoon and is now passing the Heads of Ayr on her passage South. Kind of sad to see her leave, large crowd turned out again to witness this historic event.


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## brvhrtjimmy

I have put a photo in the tug section of her getting towed from Irvine today ,and yes quite a crowd there of which I was one (==D)


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## 6639

god bless them all in this project..........I hope and pray that she gets there safely with her tow.


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## JIMMY HAMILTON

Follow her progress on AIS.... type in Dutch Pioneer, the tug towing the barge...


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## eriskay

nhp651 said:


> god bless them all in this project..........I hope and pray that she gets there safely with her tow.


She will not be under tow to Adelaide, only to the Thames area, or across to Holland, then loading on board a special heavy-lift ship for the oceanic transportation to Southern waters. Just now, i.e. 14:30 hours on Saturday, she is half way between Dublin and Holyhead and moving along at a credible 7.2 knots. (Applause)


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## brvhrtjimmy

some info for interested parties she wont be going to Holland, her first stop is chatham then on to greenich then back to chatham, for the heavy lift ship, as this site is full of seafarers I would be gratefull for any info as to why you think the tug took the channel between ierland and isle of man and not isle of man and uk coast is it because if you are traveling south down the irish sea you mast take the route between ierland and isle of man .

Brvhrtjimmy


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## eriskay

*City of Adelaide*

Note your info that the loading on heavy-lift vessel will take place on this side of the Channel and not the other side as was rumoured a few weeks back.

As for the choice of route, not aware of any protocol determining the optimum passage and, if not mistaken, when the Barge was delivered up to the Firth by the *Dutch Pioneer*, they came up North between on a course that took them between Ireland and the Isle of Man, which suggests it is optional?


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## Gulpers

There is no reason to go east of the Isle of Man when transiting southwards in the Irish Sea. The simple fact is that the distance is shorter going west of the Isle of Man.

The attached screen dump from SN's AIS feed clearly shows the tug's progress. (Thumb)


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## brvhrtjimmy

the presevation society's own website has this announcment
Buckingham Palace announces Duke of Edinburgh will greet clipper City of Adelaide in London on 18 October 2013

Buckingham Palace has announced that HRH the Duke of Edinburgh will be involved in a celebration next month at Greenwich, London, marking the return of the clipper City of Adelaide to South Australia.

The Greenwich event, details of which are still being finalised, will be held on Friday 18th October.

The clipper, being carried on a giant barge, will be moored in the River Thames - close to its world famous and younger 'sister' the Cutty Sark - before beginning its long journey to Port Adelaide.

yes and thanks for that info Gulpers looking at the map iys pretty obvious that it is shorter had i done the same then i wouldnt have had to ask the question (egg)

Brvhrtjimmy


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## vickentallen

Think the reason for the IOM,, ,,Ireland route, lot of gas rigs and windmill erection off Morecambe Bay area, if anything went wrong with the tow you have a bit of searoom on the Irish side and a bit of shelter from prevailing westerlys.
That's the way I'd go........


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## brvhrtjimmy

Name: DUTCH PIONEER http://www.vesseltracker.com/en/Ships/Dutch-Pioneer-I320288.html
IMO: 9229544
Time: 25-09-2013 16:09:57 UTC

PORT: The vessel DUTCH PIONEER has moored at berth. ( Port: Chatham )

she has now completed the first part of her long voyage safely(Thumb) (Applause)


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## stores

*City Of Adelaide*

Hard To Believe Its Actually Happening, To Be Saved And Restored, And The Other Side Of The World ! Never Thought It Would Happen, Every Year A Worse Condition. Must Be Hard To Know Where To Start First On A Hull So Neglected, ? Would Imagine Quite Difficult To Find The Skilled Craftsmen Now. But Congratulations To All Concerned, And Her Rebirth. Stores.


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## brvhrtjimmy

stores said:


> Hard To Believe Its Actually Happening, To Be Saved And Restored, And The Other Side Of The World ! Never Thought It Would Happen, Every Year A Worse Condition. Must Be Hard To Know Where To Start First On A Hull So Neglected, ? Would Imagine Quite Difficult To Find The Skilled Craftsmen Now. But Congratulations To All Concerned, And Her Rebirth. Stores.


it is a preservation project as opposed to a resoration project the work will preserve her so she doesnt get any worse a full restoration i am led to belive would be in the region of between 9million and 12 million pounds so dont know what that would be in aussi dollars,the people who are involved have put there own money into it, none of them get paid and they also rely on donations, so they are to be commended for the work they are doing and the free time they have put in and still to put in ,if you just think what the cost has been up till now they have spent a lot of money,i was doing a project on this for another site and while on it i learned the cost of the tug was £6000 per day which rises to £10,000 per day for towing, she arrived in the clyde on the fith of september and left on friday the 20th with her on the barge so quite a bit spent and a lot more cost to come.

Brvhrtjimmy


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## 5036

What next?

http://www.oldsaltblog.com/2013/10/...e-home-limbo-will-new-government-write-check/


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## brvhrtjimmy

clicked on your link Nav I have left a comment on there page.

and after all the work that's been done and money spent I hope it turns out the way it was first intended.

James Barr


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## JIMMY HAMILTON

I think the main reason for going down the Irish side would be because of the designated shipping lanes...


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## 5036

brvhrtjimmy said:


> clicked on your link Nav I have left a comment on there page.
> 
> and after all the work that's been done and money spent I hope it turns out the way it was first intended.
> 
> James Barr


It would be a great shame if rival politics stymies a noble venture.


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## brvhrtjimmy

my apoligies to eriskay,seems the info I was given at the time about it not going to Holland was incorrect, http://www.news.com.au/travel/trave...tually-australia/story-e6frfq80-1226743528643.

the tug dutch pioneer is on its way to zeebrugge, with the barge in tow.

James Barr


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## 5036

More info on the lift:

http://www.oldsaltblog.com/2013/11/...d-heavy-lift-mv-palanpur-for-her-voyage-home/


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## SkyFire

She is now in Adelaide, Australia.


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## Bosun ken

It's possible I'm living in a dream world , N.S.W. ,,,. The City of Adelaide arrived in port Adelaide on the 2 nd of February . There was no news of this event ,from the media here, I only found out while browsing on U , tube .
If anyone wants to know in detail , about the" City of. Adelaide " go to this site .


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## spongebob

Ken, the NZ media gave the arrival event plenty of coverage, maybe Valentine NSW is too far away to notice!

Bob


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## Bill Morrison

An article in the Scottish newspapers today. A woman author called Rita Bradd made the voyage to Adelaide on the vessel M.V. Palanpur which transported the City of Adelaide. It would seem thy followed a similar course to which the sailing ship may have taken. On the City of Adelaide's maiden voyage a young kept a diary describing the voyage and Rita Bradd has done the same. She hopes the write a book comparing the two and if successful some of the proceeds would go to the future up keep of the City of Adelaide.
Bill


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## A.D.FROST

Watched BBC "Coast Australia" Last which featured the City Of Adelaide still in a mess but at least they saw its potential and put their money were there mouth was.Unlike the UK.Best of luck in completing the job and don't let it be another Titanic II.


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