# Dunkirk evacuation 1940



## picktish bull (Jul 27, 2011)

I'm not sure if this is the right place to post this question, but does anyone know if the Admiralty held a complete record of all the craft, ships and boats, which took part in the Dunkirk evacuation and if so, is it available, please?

Thanks a lot, 
Kenny


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## audierne (Sep 20, 2008)

Good Evening,
Are you interested in any particular ship / boat / vessel?
There is a book by Russel Plummer called "THE SHIPS THAT SAVED AN ARMY" (Patrick Stevens, 1990) that lists the craft that took part in operation "Dynamo".
Regards,
Gerard


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## picktish bull (Jul 27, 2011)

Hello Gerard,

Many thanks for your reply and for the information. It was a wee craft called 'Condor' that i was interested in. I believe that she did not return from Dunkirk beaches.

Regards, 
Kenny


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## audierne (Sep 20, 2008)

Hello Kenny,
no trace of "Condor" in the book, I'm afraid, but will keep looking.
Any details of the boat ?
Regards ,
gerard


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## picktish bull (Jul 27, 2011)

Thanks for that Gerard. I think I have spelled the name correctly. I don't have any details except that it was a very small boat with shallow draught. Little more than a dinghy with a cover over the wheel. I don't think they had outboard motors then so I suppose it must have had a small in-board engine. The sort of thing you see dozens of these days in harbours and used for a spot of in-shore fishing. Capable of carrying no more than half a dozen or so blokes I should think. Would it be too small for the name to be registered in the book? It would have been towed over with a lot of others by a tug. Certainly too small to cross the Channel under her own power. Many thanks for taking the trouble to look.
Regards, 
Kenny


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## audierne (Sep 20, 2008)

Sorry, no luck.
There is one "Conidaw" mentioned (page 161) but that is a twin-screw ketch 80 feet long (still in existence in 1990) that left Calais on May 25th with 165 men on board. Not what you are looking for.
Have you tried to get in touch with :
1) The Association of Dunkirk Little Ships (ADLS)
or 2) The Dunkirk Veterans Association ?
They may be able to help.
Regards, 
Gerard


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## rickles23 (Oct 13, 2006)

*Operation Dynamo /Operation Aerial*

Hi,

Less well known, 'Operation Aerial’
From June 15th. – 25th. 139, 812 British soldiers were transported to England.
Consisting of:
17,062 French,
24,352 Poles, 
4,938 Czechs, 
163 Belgians, 
2,282 vehicles, 
315 guns and all kinds of military equipment from the ports of Cherbourg, Jersey, Guernsey, St Malo, Brest , Nantes, La Pallice, St-Nazaire, Le Verdon, Bordeaux and St-Jean-de-Luz.

Several large Belgian ships took part:
Prince Baudouin.
Prince Charles.
Prince Leopold.
Prins Albert. 
Princess Marie Jose.
Princess Astrid.
Princess Josephine-Charlotte.

More information is available if required.
Regards


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## picktish bull (Jul 27, 2011)

Gerard,

Many thanks for looking for Condor for me. No, i haven't tried the ADLS or DVA, but i will do. Thanks for the suggestion.

Rickles,
Thanks a lot for the information on Op. Aerial. I hadn't realised that the evacuation from western France was given a separate code name. I know that this is where the Lancastria was lost and that her captain, Rudolph Sharp, OBE, went on to be master of the Laconia, although didn't survive her sinking by U-156 two years later.

Regards, 
Kenny


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## ben27 (Dec 27, 2012)

good morning pickish bull.4thjuly.2013.07:13.re:dunkirk evacuation.1940.i have been readind this thread with interest.i don't know all the places to look for your information.but any boat(privately ownd)was required to sign T.124x articles,that gave the navy authority over the craft,it might give you another avenue of inquiry,good luck,ben27


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## spongebob (Dec 11, 2007)

As a byline, my recent read of "The Second World War" by Antony Beevor mentions that a launch owned and manned by a surviving officer on the Titanic, Commander Charles Lightoller, was there doing its bit for the evacuation. 

Bob


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## audierne (Sep 20, 2008)

That is SUNDOWNER, still in existence. Owned by East Kent Maritime trust and based at Ramsgate. (Plummer, op. cit., p.176)


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## picktish bull (Jul 27, 2011)

Hello Ben27,
Many thanks for that steer. Do you know where i would be able to source those forms, please? Would it be Kew?

Bob, thanks for filling a knowledge gap. I had often wondered whether Lightoller survived the Great War. It was Kenneth More was it not who played Lightoller in the proper film about the sinking of Titanic, A Night to Remember?
He clearly did survive and WW2 as well I trust.

Thanks everyone for your interest in my enquiry.

Kenny


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## audierne (Sep 20, 2008)

Good evening, Kenny,
One small brick for the wall...
in "BEF ships before, at and after Dunkirk" World Ship Society 1999, section 4, "other "dynamo" ships, John de S Winser states on page 105 :
CONDOR Motor yacht (Youles) - on harbour duty at Dover.
I'm afraid that is all there is. Do you know a Mr Youles listed as owning the boat at the time ? It may be a lead.
Did the boat stay in Dover ? Who to ask ?
Good luck !
Gerard


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## ben27 (Dec 27, 2012)

good day picktish bull.12thjuly 2013,01:37,ret124x)I did not get a form.i signed on at my pool in London.(the M.N.pool are in all britich ports)they were in my day,but in the case of Dunkirk small ships,the R.N.would have signed all boat owners at the port of departure.you could approach the R.N.it would not be secret.i wish you luck.regards ben27


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## picktish bull (Jul 27, 2011)

Thank you both for your replies.

I'll get in touch with the RN records office and see what they have. She did not return from Dunkirk, so I would imagine would appear in two lists - those going out and those lost.

I'll post any results. Many thanks,


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## audierne (Sep 20, 2008)

Bon courage,
Regards,
Gerard


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## Biggles Wader (Jul 18, 2013)

picktish bull said:


> Hello Ben27,
> Many thanks for that steer. Do you know where i would be able to source those forms, please? Would it be Kew?
> 
> Bob, thanks for filling a knowledge gap. I had often wondered whether Lightoller survived the Great War. It was Kenneth More was it not who played Lightoller in the proper film about the sinking of Titanic, A Night to Remember?
> ...


Indeed he did.A remarkable man in many ways.He used to live at East Cliff Dover,possibly a candidate for a blue plaque?


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## Duncan112 (Dec 28, 2006)

http://www.shipsnostalgia.com/galle.../title/plaque-to-commander-lightoller/cat/all


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## Biggles Wader (Jul 18, 2013)

Duncan112 said:


> http://www.shipsnostalgia.com/galle.../title/plaque-to-commander-lightoller/cat/all


Good to see he got a plaque.


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## Duncan112 (Dec 28, 2006)

Almost opposite to where I live, Lightollers were mill owners in the town, pillars of the local Church, then sometime in the late 1910's, early 1920's the entire family vanished from the town.


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## CommanderChuff (Dec 29, 2012)

*Cmdr Lightoller (Titanic survivor), RN, DSC + Bar*



Biggles Wader said:


> Indeed he did.A remarkable man in many ways.He used to live at East Cliff Dover,possibly a candidate for a blue plaque?


This is an article which I produced for the South Easter Raiway historical society which provides some more detail on the Commander. A very brave man and worth while researching. His expolits in Dunkirk are particulalry interesting.

Commander C Lightoller, RN, DSC + Bar, MiD:
Charles Herbert Lightoller was the second officer on board the RMS Titanic, and the most senior officer to survive the Titanic disaster in 1912. He was promoted to Commander after distinguishing himself in the Royal Navy in World War I and was decorated for gallantry in both World Wars. In the 1920’s he become a property owner and managed a guesthouse in London. The house was owned by the South Eastern and Chatham Railway and was leased from the Southern Railway in 1925. Cmdr’s Lightoller connection with sea continued in the inter-war period as the owner and skipper of a motor yacht. In the emergency evacuation of 1940 he took the boat into action to help to save the British Army from Dunkirk. Although Cmdr Lightoller is best remembered for that night in 1912 the legacy of the Titanic has never left him. But his brave exploits in two World Wars exemplified his conduct as a professional mariner and in answering the call to arms. From surviving disaster and action at sea he suc***bed to the Great London Smog of 1952.
Titanic Aftermath.
In 1913 Lightoller returned to sea as First Officer on the ‘Oceanic’ and upon the declaration of war became Lieutenant Lightoller aboard the now HMS Oceanic as the Royal Navy took over the ship. Three weeks later the Oceanic broke up in a storm and was gone. Lightoller's next assignment was to the Campania, a 13,000 ton Cunard liner converted to seaplane carrier. ‘Lights’ now found himself as the observer in a Short 184 seaplane. In June 1915, during a Grand Fleet exercise off Iceland, he was the observer on the only plane able to get into the air. They located the Blue Fleet, and for the first time in history, a plane sent up by a fleet at sea succeeded in locating an enemy fleet. Just before Christmas 1915 he was given command of the torpedo boat HMTB 117. In July 1916 he employed a crewman with particularly sensitive hearing as an early warning device to detect the low flying Zeppelin L31 in complete darkness. After engaging the enemy with the deck gun several shots were seen to hit the airship. For this action he was awarded the Distinguished Service Cross and was promoted to the commander of the torpedo-boat-destroyer ‘Falcon’ with the Dover Patrol. The Dover Patrol was formed to maintain the Dover Barrage and as an escort group of small warships. The barrage was a submarine detector and minefield stretching 25 km across the Dover Straits. The patrol performed sterling work in protecting the shipping lanes across the Narrow Seas between Dover and Dunkirk. The presence of the patrol closed off the Dover Straits from German shipping entering the English Channel en-route to the Atlantic Ocean. The force was notable for its involvement in the Zeebrugge Raid on 22 April 1918, but started the war with a motley and varied collection of any ship with the capability of mounting a gun and floating. During this time Lightoller was living with his in rented premises at Elizabeth House, 8 East Cliff, Dover. This large and imposing apartment block is now a Grade II Listed Building. In July 1918 he rammed and sank the German submarine U-110 in his new command the destroyer ‘Garry’ for which he was awarded a bar to his D.S.C. and promoted to Lieutenant Commander.
In the interwar period, the depression years, he odd jobbed as an innkeeper, chicken farmer, author and property speculator. The Lightollers opened a guest house in Belgrave Road and after a few years had had some minor success in property speculation. 

Redemption:
The Lightollers managed the house as a guesthouse for a number of years, and we can assume it was a profitable business as the Commander purchased the 60 foot motor yacht Sundowner in 1929 and carried out an extensive update and alterations. In the intervening years towards the next big adventure the Lightollers sailed the boat on long distance voyages. The Lightollers started their war together as spies working for the Admiralty. In July 1939 they sailed their boat along the German coastline making a survey of ports and beaches in the guise of an elderly couple on vacation. The next disaster to involve the Commander was the evacuation at Dunkirk in which he rescued 130 men from the beaches and returned them to Ramsgate under a hail of enemy gunfire. The Sundowner was designed for just 21 people and Cmdr Lightoller was 66 years old in command of a crew of an 18 year old sea scout named Gerald Ashcroft and his eldest son. Under constant air attack Lightoller was able to spot the movement of an attacking aircraft at the moment that the bomb was released and took avoiding action. The boat suffered damage from several near misses but survived to return to Ramsgate with its cargo of evacuees.

Commander Lightoller continued in sea operations in small craft for the duration of the war and was awarded a Mention in Dispatches in World War II, to join his Distinguished Service Cross and bar for gallantry in World War I. He was 72 years old when he was demobbed from war service and six years later he suc***bed to heart failure, aged 78. He was just one of 4,000 people who died from the effects of the environmental disaster now known as the Great London Smog of 1952.


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## picktish bull (Jul 27, 2011)

Thanks a lot for this, Commander Chuff and sorry for the later response. I greatly admire Charles Lightoller. We do not often see his likes today. Whilst there are undoubtedly some very fine young people about today, sadly I do not believe that they are in sufficient quantity to repeat what our grandparents and parents did, if they were called upon to do so. Vale, Kenny


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## Bruros (Mar 12, 2015)

*The Reiver*

Hi Pictish Bull.....like the "handle " Y'ken !
I've recently finished my late Grand-dad's Biography....he was in The RN in both ww's. The Requisitioned Ship he was 2nd Engineer on, and later Chief, was ordered to Dunkirk, but on the way there was diverted to St.Malo, to destroy Radio Masts and a Radio Station....which she did. BUT, the ship was dive bombed while alongside, and was towed home with a flooded E.R. ...The Ship was HM Armed Steam Yacht "Cutty Sark".... a wee " Destroyer look alike ".Interesting reading on a Google Search. I'm sure if yis poke aroond enough on Google, you'll find the List.
Cheers the 'noo n'all, Bruce Graham


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## surfaceblow (Jan 16, 2008)

The 75 Anniversary of the Dunkirk Evacuation will begin on the 16 of May where the Little boats will gather at the Royal Docks London. The full schedule can be found at 
http://intheboatshed.net/2015/01/06/...h-anniversary/

Joe


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## picktish bull (Jul 27, 2011)

How y' doin' Bruce, Thanks for the comment, although i'm not sure how the 'k' got into Pictish and I can't get in to amend it. If a moderator is reading this, please take out the 'k' for me.
Your Granddad did well to survive two world wars. I'm busy writing a Great War biography just now about an RE on the Western Front. I found the Cutty Sark on Google. Very interesting. There cannot be many men who have actually owned their own warship on active service (Smoke)

Thanks for the heads up on the 75th anniversary Joe. The security will be tight for that but i hope it is not spoiled by some clown.

Yours aye, 
Kenny


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## Bruros (Mar 12, 2015)

Hi Kenny, Thanks for the reply. Yes indeed, I thought the same about survival of Grand-dad Edgar !WW1 Battle of Coronel, then Battle of Falkland Islands; then WW2 Dive bombed in HMS"Cutty Sark " while alongside at St.Malo.E.R.Flooded...towed home, the the next month Operation Aerial, again damaged by enemy action, while on the way to France , Engine Room flooded a second time ,,,"staggered " home on one engine ! Talking about RE's...I had an Uncle John Hopkins, my Mam's younger Bro... born 1907 d.2002...a good innings for my favorite Unc ! My Son-in-law is a Major with the 9th Airborne Div. RE's , some 15 years ago when I first met him , he was a Sapper. "Well done that man Sah !"Hear from you again should you want more details of Unc.John ! Cheers Aye , Bruce G.


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