# HARRY ALBERT WARD b 1901



## Ene (Mar 8, 2008)

Hi Gents, here is a hard one.

Has anyone run into a relative of mine called Harry Ward. He served in the RN during the war and the Merchant Marine afterwards.

A Cousin of mine met him when he joined a ship in Cape Town about 1958, having missed his own ship sailing.

I know the information is minimal, but I have asked about exact dates, ships names etc. without success.

He had a Brother who also served in the Merchant Marine, he was Albert John Fayle, known as 'Johnny', the latter was 9 years younger and a bit of a rascal. (I know, plenty of those about. Ha ha.).

Regards


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## Hugh MacLean (Nov 18, 2005)

Was he born in London? This may or may not be his Seaman's Pouch: http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/...SearchInit=4&SearchType=6&CATREF=BT+372/25/84

Regards
Hugh


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## Ene (Mar 8, 2008)

Wow, that was quick, thanks Hugh, you obviously know your way around the National Archives Site. I had tried it once, but could not get the hang of it.

It is quite possible that this may be our man, albeit with the initials reversed. I shall have to get a London relative on the case at Archives.

I would still like to keep the search for shipmates afloat though, as he was, I understand, a bit of a Rascal.


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## Hugh MacLean (Nov 18, 2005)

Energumen said:


> It is quite possible that this may be our man, albeit with the initials reversed.


Have I missed something here. You asked for Harry Albert Ward b 1901? Of course the H. A. may not be Harry Albert but you wont know that unless you get the file but the date and place of birth should give you further confidence or not.
Regards
Hugh


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## Ene (Mar 8, 2008)

Hi Hugh, no, sorry you haven't missed something. Some records had him as A H and some H A, I was just in a pickle.

Regards


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## Roger Griffiths (Feb 10, 2006)

Energumen,
Could you give us his date and place of birth otherwise we will be going round in circles.
Hugh there is a Albert H Ward on FMP born Liverpool

regards
Roger


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## Ene (Mar 8, 2008)

Hello, thanks for you interest.
I have a probable birth, which ties with the dates of the Seaman's Pouch, found by Hugh. 19.09.1901 @ Bromley Workhouse Stepney. There was no Father shown, but the Mother and Siblings are all known to me.
I am just trying to trace any data and shipmates who may have known him.

I have followed up the pouch details supplied by Hugh, and am awaiting a postal application from National Archives, to secure a copy. I will of course advise on the result, which I am very hopeful will be positive.


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## Hugh MacLean (Nov 18, 2005)

Energumen see below, any connection? Could be a mistake but.... 

Normandy COMNO pouch.
this man also has the same Dis A. number as H.A. Ward - similarities also with DoB. 

Any thoughts on that, Roger?

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/...560&CATLN=7&Highlight=,R106198&accessmethod=0


Regards
Hugh


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## Ene (Mar 8, 2008)

Hello again Hugh, thanks for still being in there sweeping the channels for debris, ha ha. That is interesting, as the dob is exactly three years earlier to the day, the R number is, as you say the same, as is the surname, also Henry is the usual proper name for Harry.
He definitely served in the war as well, but it was thought that was in RN. I can see no area on him as yet, but I most certainly will keep the reference for a later foray into the records.
Thanks again
Regards


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## Roger Griffiths (Feb 10, 2006)

Hugh MacLean said:


> Energumen see below, any connection? Could be a mistake but....
> 
> Normandy COMNO pouch.
> this man also has the same Dis A. number as H.A. Ward - similarities also with DoB.
> ...


Seems to me a Catalogue error. If Energumen gets hold of the "Seaman's Pouch" in BT372/25/84 and if it is negative, we can then look at BT 391/112/131
As we know people do change their names for whatever reason,
Let's see what transpires.


regards
Roger


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## ray1buck1 (Sep 4, 2005)

The only Christopher Henry Ward that I can find was aged 35 with 18 years service when he signed on the “Langleeford” in Swansea 9th April 1935 ( DoB circa 1900) as an AB he was 5’ – 8 ½ “ in height weight 154 lbs with tattoos on left & right arms Crucifixes 
The ship arrived in New 14th May 1935 having sailed from Quebec Canada 8th May 1935, she was expected to sail 17th May for Sagua La Grande Cuba

There are several Christopher Ward’s 
“Empire Chapman” he signed on in 7th February 1945 in Swansea as an AB aged 47 with 32 years service again with Tattoos, the ship arribed in New York 19th March 1945 having sailed from Swansea 14th February 1945

There is also a Christopher Harold Ward as an AB Signed on the “Kaipaki” 19th December 1948 in Sydney aged 52 (DoB circa1897 )
Ray


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## Ene (Mar 8, 2008)

Hi Gents, I am appreciatively popping in occasionally to keep an eye on your deliberations.
Regards


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## Ene (Mar 8, 2008)

Hi Gents, I am awaiting family responding to mails.
Regards
E


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## Ene (Mar 8, 2008)

*Harry Albert Ward*

Hello Gents, thanks for all your help.
My word this Rascal has not made life easy for anyone.

I have eventually sent for and received the Seamen's Pouches records mentioned, ( well, BT372/25/74 at least, though I requested and paid for BT 391 etc. as well).

The original pouch 372/0025 was dated 11.03.1948 with a birth date of 19.09.1897 and in the name of Christopher Henry Ward born London.
However, it had been crossed through and changed to Harry Albert Ward born 19.09.1901, (at some later date, probably after he submitted a name and date change form on 26.04.1965, which is in the file.
The irony being that there is also a new seamans card issued to him on 06.Jan 1959 in the name of Christopher Henry and an application for a seaman's card dated one day later in the name of Harry Albert Ward both using same N I Number etc.

It is a right buggers muddle. Ha ha ha.
Regards


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## Ene (Mar 8, 2008)

Hi Hugh, you mention Normandy Comno Pouch.
I am not sure what that means, but the BT391 stuff for war years has not arrived and I called them and they claimed it was all copied. Guess what! They are shut now till January. Where do public servants find enough working days in the year to strike?. Ha ha
Regards


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## Ene (Mar 8, 2008)

ray1buck1 said:


> The only Christopher Henry Ward that I can find was aged 35 with 18 years service when he signed on the “Langleeford” in Swansea 9th April 1935 ( DoB circa 1900) as an AB he was 5’ – 8 ½ “ in height weight 154 lbs with tattoos on left & right arms Crucifixes
> The ship arrived in New 14th May 1935 having sailed from Quebec Canada 8th May 1935, she was expected to sail 17th May for Sagua La Grande Cuba
> 
> There are several Christopher Ward’s
> ...



Ray, bless you, that is my man, as I have a form CRS 56 stating that he was discharged from the Taipaki on 11.04.1949.
The crucifix tattoos on right arm also tie up and on one form he claims a Wife in Swansea in 1959.

Ray, where did you find this info please?.

Regards


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## ray1buck1 (Sep 4, 2005)

Send me your email address in a Private Message I'll send copies of the ships manifest
click on my name top left
Ray


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## Ene (Mar 8, 2008)

*Harry Albert Ward*



ray1buck1 said:


> Send me your email address in a Private Message I'll send copies of the ships manifest
> click on my name top left
> Ray


Thank you so much Ray, I have mailed you separately.
Much appreciated.
Regards


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## Hugh MacLean (Nov 18, 2005)

> you mention Normandy Comno Pouch.
> I am not sure what that means


The file BT 391 holds the COMNO pouch similar to the seaman's pouch in BT 372. COMNO stands for Combined Office Merchant Navy Operations. This file is concerned with the liberation of Europe 6th June 1944 - 8th May 1945 i.e. Normandy and beyond.

As you are discovering, researching individuals can throw up some surprises...keep plugging away you will get there in time. 

Regards
Hugh


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## Ene (Mar 8, 2008)

Hugh MacLean said:


> The file BT 391 holds the COMNO pouch similar to the seaman's pouch in BT 372. COMNO stands for Combined Office Merchant Navy Operations. This file is concerned with the liberation of Europe 6th June 1944 - 8th May 1945 i.e. Normandy and beyond.
> 
> As you are discovering, researching individuals can throw up some surprises...keep plugging away you will get there in time.
> 
> ...


Hi Hugh, thanks again for explaining that. It proves what I thought, none of this stuff the NA sent was for the 391 pouch, despite them having charged me for it and then insisted that they had sent it all together. So now I will have to wait until the civil service gets back to work, or hell freezes over. (Probably contemporaneous events, knowing my luck), Ha ha
Regards


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## Ene (Mar 8, 2008)

*Harry Albert Ward*

Hi Gents.

Well I never, BT 391 eventually arrived today.

More mysteries to investigate.

Thanks all who have helped with this mystery tour. I am very much indebted.
Regards


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