# Radio Company R/O preference.



## R651400

Having never sailed with Marconi, IMR or Siemens and looking at SN gallery picture of British tramp Harpagus and the trials and tribulations of the R/O was there some sort of pecking order in radio companies to R/O assignment ie the best going to the blue-eyed boys?


----------



## Varley

Between Marconi and IMR the view at college was that IMR was more demanding and wouldn't simply grab a ticketed yob from the college gates. That's why I went with Marconi (and didn't regret it a bit).


----------



## R651400

"Je regrette rien" accepted but there must surely within Marconi's enormous though not quite monopoly over British flag ships been those who got the "Southern Cross" liner class and others who got the "Southern Harvester" whaler class as I suspect on a consistent basis?


----------



## richardwakeley

and what's wrong with southern harvester? i am fortunate enough to know a c/e in jardines whose first trip to sea as j/e was on that one.


----------



## R651400

only a j/e? 
I knew the R/O on Southern Harvester so don't get your point unless you have a penchant for watching harpooned whales from the flensing deck of the Harvester to the bloated sun-burned whales stretched out on the promenade deck of the Cross?


----------



## R719220

When I got my ticket (November '59) there was what was referred to as a bit of a depression in shipping. Absolute joke compared to what was to come.

Accordingly, and desperate to get to sea, I applied to Marconi, IMR and Siemens. Despite having done my training on Siemens gear I was determined to go with the first job offer I got.

IMR. Wonderful. Even when working for them (and with the occasional falling out) I never, ever regretted it.

There were aspects of going to sea that I would have preferred not to do.....never wanted tankers, never wanted to go up the Gulf. Personal choices, not criticising anybody else's choices. With IMR, never had to.

Although only at sea for a short time (four and a bit years) I had the most amazing choice of ships. For a young lad it was pretty much a dream come true. What an amazing collection of long-gone companies I sailed with:-

Houlder Bros (Ore Carriers Ltd)

Anchor Line of Glasgow

Cunard

Blue Star

South American Saint Line

Nerdrum's

Furness Withy (if I remember correctly, a subsidiary thereof - Johnson Warren)

Trader Navigation

Times varied from a fortnight long leave relief to 18 months. However, all enjoyable and part of my personal history.

Never forgotten. Never regretted. Wonderful.

Thanks IMR.


PS Was certainly never a blue-eyed boy, just the way it worked out.


----------



## Ron Stringer

There was an interview before being accepted. From memory it was fairly cursory but enough to enable a sketchy profile to be created which would guide decisions as to the type of ship to put the newly-qualified R/O aboard for his initial 6-months supervised sea time. 

During that time the supervising senior R/O would be expected to observe progress and to make a final report to the Marconi office where the youngster signed off at the end of the period. Points of significance would be noted on the R/O's record card prior to deciding his next appointment. 

Similarly, instructors at successive training courses would be asked to give their views on course attendees, to complement the record. Any comments (good and bad) from shipping companies' superintendents or Masters also went into the pot. Over time a picture was built up and where possible, the R/O's abilities and experience were matched to the requirements of the shipowner/vessel. 

In practice, supply and demand tended to take over. When someone fell ill, failed to arrive back on board on time, or when there was a sudden change of sailing date or port, the poor Staff Clerk could be left with only minutes to find a replacement and get him to the ship. In such cases, availability was often the deciding factor.

So there was a big slice of chance involved in many appointments.

In the case of the senior positions on large passenger ships it was a matter of getting lucky intitially to be appointed there and then keeping your nose clean with the Chief R/O to be allowed to remain and work your way up the hierarchy. Getting the appointment to be Chief R/O depended on your relationship with the appointing Marconi Office manager and Staff Clerk (who noted your ability to retain more junior colleagues) and feedback from the superintendent concerning your social abilities - i.e. whether or not you kept their customers happy.

Much like any other job.


----------



## cajef

I found when I was with Marconi having a 1st Class PMG and Radar certificate tended to ensure you were offered better ships, when I was on the Empress of Canada the juniors usually had 1st Class tickets, maybe they did not want RO's with better tickets to leave and go freelance.


----------



## Varley

So, when I was put with an agreeable drunk for my first trip it was 'on plan'?

I regret that I did not appreciate that I, too, should have been more agreeable when I found myself in the same position (I/C, that is, not drunk. Well, not often).


----------



## IAN M

I made two voyages with Dick Molland on the Glengarry in 1949/50 after which he got a 1st Class Ticket and left Holts because he didn't want to be promoted to purser. 

His subsequent employers were Brocklebank, Marconi, Redifon (ashore and afloat), the Crown Agents, Clan Line, the RFA (Royal Fleet Auxiliary), Ferranti (in Edinburgh), and Marconi again before settling for a shore job in London. 

Dick and I kept in touch and I made his letters into a book called 'Letters from a Radio Officer'. This was serialized in QSO (the journal of the Radio Officers' Association) and is now available on Amazon Kindle. Dick, I must add, was critical of ALL employers.


----------



## Bob Murdoch

I got my Radar ticket between my first part of my second class (I failed morse the first time) and getting my 2nd class. Was employed by Marconi in Glasgow within a couple of hours of getting my results and picking up my ticket. No real interview. I made sure I was holding my ticket in view when I entered the office, having been laughed out the door at Paddy Henderson's down the road. I was 16 and looked it!
Fill in a form, do you want an advance to get yourself kitted out. Here is your appointment for a medical. Report back herd when you pass. Then down to the shipping office a couple of days later to get my discharge book etc.
I guess I must have had something in common with Ron as I did the second 3 months of my 6 months on the Golfito too.
I was only with Marconi for a couple of years before going out to the Union SS Co in NZ, but again, a hand written letter to the London office (P&O) and got letter enclosing a rail voucher down to London for a medical. No interview, just a medical and an X-Ray
Wish it was all happening again, dont we all!
Cheers Bob.


----------



## Bill.B

After leaving the RFA in late 74 I went to work for Kelvin Hughes Sea Staff. They were pushing the Electronics Officer training and job and that is what I wanted to do. They were a great company to work for and were more than fair in dealing with us. Bob Cherry and Rita Roth were great people to work for. I only left to join CP because of more money and did my REO training with them. KH did offer me the REO course but I had already made up my mind. Had a great time on the UBC and Denholms ships. Luckily I was sent to two bad boy ships that no one wanted, Jebsens Sealnes and Swiftnes and had a ball. They even called me up on Swiftnes after two months and asked if I wanted to get off due to previous R/O experiences. I did 6 months on both and enjoyed it all. Lots of sea time but great crews.


----------



## Peter Eccleson

Varley said:


> Between Marconi and IMR the view at college was that IMR was more demanding and wouldn't simply grab a ticketed yob from the college gates. That's why I went with Marconi (and didn't regret it a bit).


Dave, you went to MIMCO and I went to IMR - we went through the same gate ! 
What companies did you sail with? 

Pete


----------



## Varley

Pete, Like you I put the detail in my profile!

I have just seen your Three Quays service. Malcolm Vincent's was the first business card in my file after making Super. Saw him two weeks ago at IMarEST HQ dinner. You should joins us if just for the nosh up (and it is far more interesting than that).


----------



## expats

Varley said:


> Between Marconi and IMR the view at college was that IMR was more demanding and wouldn't simply grab a ticketed yob from the college gates. That's why I went with Marconi (and didn't regret it a bit).



I went with Marconi in 1964 and never regretted it....I got good ships and 'duff' ships (usually I found the duff uns more to my taste)....

I had no ambition to join Passie jobs as I'm allergic to 'spit and polish and joined the MN for the reason on the old Marconi advert, "well paid to see the world" (the second bit was true)... I, and those like me, saw a world that has long gone. I count myself very fortunate...

As for Marconi...I contacted Sarcoidosis and was off work for months...The company bent over backwards to be helpful...coasters, internal and college courses, etc. and finally a shore job....

Ashore didn't suit and I went back freelancing and, again, no regrets...ended my seagoing life with Sealink...


----------



## beedeesea

By "duff" ships do you mean easy-going, lack of B/S ones?

Brian


----------



## expats

beedeesea said:


> By "duff" ships do you mean easy-going, lack of B/S ones?
> 
> Brian


Yes! What I'd call "Go away; stay away" ships....Liverpool Marconi depot told me that they weren't popular with R/Os and was surprised when I said that was just what I wanted,,,


----------



## R651400

Can't think of a better port to sail or be attached to than Liverpool and with no disrespect to tramp shipping were there clunkers that sailed with port of registry Liverpool on their stern?


----------



## richardwakeley

I went 'direct employ' with the late great Blue Funnel Line straight from college, and look back with great nostalgia to my first trip from Birkenhead to Liverpool, via Cebu. Unlike IanM's friend, i did go through the purser route, but abdicated to being a lecky in later years.


----------



## Peter Eccleson

Varley said:


> Pete, Like you I put the detail in my profile!
> 
> I have just seen your Three Quays service. Malcolm Vincent's was the first business card in my file after making Super. Saw him two weeks ago at IMarEST HQ dinner. You should joins us if just for the nosh up (and it is far more interesting than that).


Dave
Was in TQMS same time as Vic Oram/Chris Winkley. 
Would like to meet up - when, where is the next one?


----------



## Varley

Pete, Didn't know Chris Winkley. Dealt often with Vic.

Around same time next year, I'll keep you advised (breath and memory permitting. You could, of course, join up now!).


----------



## BobClay

Joined Marconi straight from Leith Nautical in 1970 with 2nd Class and Radar. Did 3 months junior time on a Ben Boat then the subsequent 3 months on my own on a Stephenson Clarke 'flattie.' Great trip, but virtually useless as junior training time as no HF, very little key work. I'm afraid that poisoned me a l bit for Marconi, although I did another 13 monther on a Bank Boat with them. Did Kelvin Hughes and then freelanced and went up to Southampton off my own bat in 1975 to get MED and General in parallel. Actually went back to Marconi after this (flat broke after 6 months of college paying my own way) and did a trip on a Mobil super-tanker but then I got a job with CP Ships who proved the best employer I've worked for during my sea time. Stuck with them until the end. So for me Radio Companies were poor employers and their pay was poor to say the least.


----------



## R651400

When I took my 2nd Class Leith Nautical '56 in the 1st Class group the one and only Marconi man frightened us youngsters with tales of Indian coast hijackings for two years etc. Another was a character Clive Knibb from Blue Funnel so that's where I applied. I have to admit with only 2nd Class PMG I got a few deep-sea clunkers but they were all Chinese crewed, spotlessly clean and wonderful food and of course my choice of run always the Far East. Moved on to freelance when GTZB said it was time for promotion to coloring in cargo plans and doing crews wages etc etc. Freelance was the best move I made when at sea.


----------



## Naytikos

I 'fell into' Marconi's because at Plymouth Tech. one had to take positive action to avoid it. However I wasn't there long enough to notice whether there was a pecking order or not. So I don't know whether being treated like dirt by the counter clerks at East Ham depot was just normal or only for recent employees.

3m 18d on an old Ben-boat and then I was on my own for a couple of trips to Italy on a GSNC boat of just less than the 1600grt divide.
Then I got a Bank boat which ended up in Avonmouth. That MIMCo depot sent me as relief a couple of times, where I felt like a fish out of water as I wasn't 'the usual sparks'.
And that was it for the UK flag.

I suppose if I had stuck around and found there was a hierarchy I would have quit then anyway.


----------



## R651400

I've always maintained the stranglehold particularly Mimco/GTZM over the Radio Officer employment within the British MN was to our detriment in the sense of not belonging to any particular shipping company. 
I can only think of one other flag that did the same ie the Dutch with Radio Holland/PDRH and again my limited experience as supernumerary on Blue Funnel,s Teiresias/PHXB confirmed this ..


----------



## Ron Stringer

R651400 said:


> I've always maintained the stranglehold particularly Mimco/GTZM over the Radio Officer employment within the British MN was to our detriment in the sense of not belonging to any particular shipping company.


When I went to sea in 1960 I did not see any evidence of a MIMCo "stranglehold" on the employment of Radio Officers in the British Merchant fleet, let alone elsewhere. They certainly employed the greatest number but as far as I know, had to compete for every one. Their position arose because of a number of factors: initially they were the only company able to supply radio stations to ships and to provide the men trained (at their own expense and in their own training colleges) and qualified to operate that equipment. 

Later as competition became established, they benefited from the cost advantages of scale as the rate of design change was slow and the same product could remain in production for years, assisted by the reluctance of shipowners to purchase untried products from new suppliers. They also had the advantage that most shipowners were only prepared to pay the bare minimum in order to meet the regulations, whether that was in terms of equipment or manpower costs. When you are building to a minimum standard, there is little scope for innovative or cost-saving designs, making it hard for new-comers to make head-roads into the existing market.

Even after WW2 this situation changed only slightly, which is why a 1945 design such as the *Oceanspan* could remain in production for over 2 decades and still be selected as the main transmitter by some British owners. The equipment market didn't really begin to open up until the appearance of SSB in the 1960s. But that was not due to any MIMCo "stranglehold", rather the reluctance of would-be competitors to commit to the investment required.

Similarly it took several periods of R/O shortages post-war to persuade some shipowners that they would be better off employing their own men rather than relying on MIMCo or one of the other two main operating companies. The fact that they did not make that decision many years previously was entirely down to them, not the radio operating companies.

The NMB pay and leave rates for all grades were negotiated between the shipowners and the unions. The shipowner knew exactly what the radio operating companies had to pay their men and what they in turn charged the owner. In no way were the radio companies in the driving seat, since their customers had full details of all the costs and margins involved and negotiated accordingly when contracting for the manning of a ship.

Bearing in mind the cost of running equipment training courses for R/Os on full pay and expenses (I enjoyed a few!) I cannot believe that the manpower supply business made any huge amount of profit in the postwar years. The low wages paid to R/Os by the radio operating companies were a direct consequence of the low wages negotiated by the shipowners, courtesy of the NMB agreements.


----------



## R651400

Perhaps stranglehold was a tad strong but without question Marconi and other radio companies monopolised the radio side of British MN employment from beginning to end. 
I went to sea in '56 with a 2nd Class PMG and had I wished to sail with a company I have a minor connection with ie Runcimans there was no chance of being directly employed by them but to join Marconi and accept their conditions of service. 
I referred to Radio Holland simply because the Radio Officer on board Blue Funnel's Teiresias/PHXB actually inferred he would have been happier to have been company employed as he enjoyed NSM the Dutch BF subsidiary the ship and its voyages.
At the time I passed my ticket Marconi was breaking down your college door to employ and by the end of the 60's by what I've read here it all dried up leaving certificated passes without a snowball in hell's chance of a berth. I personally feel this situation would have been a lot better as say the case of the Greeks and others had the entire British MN been direct-employ


----------



## Shipbuilder

Having trained on Siemens gear at Wray Castle, 1959/60, I joined AEI. Usual thing, general cargo ship, iron ore carrier and couple of colliers. I then asked to be appointed to the iron ore carrier _Sagamore_ that I had just discovered was coming out of lay-up.
This was granted without argument. Whenever I felt like a voyage off, I just sent an AEI Svc message from Biscay, and relief was there on arrival. Always seemed to get more leave than I was due, and they always let me return to the _Sagamore_. I thought they were a great company and was dismayed to find out that Marconi had taken them over when I was on leave. I contacted Marconi to confirm I was returning to _Sagamore_ towards the end of my leave. I was told abruptly that appointments were made by the office and not the sea staff! Consequently, I resigned and joined B & C. Two weeks later whilst awaiting a B & C appointment, they (B & C) contacted me and said that Marconi had been in contact, and because of a few R/O resignations, they couldn't find an R/O for the _Sagamore_, could they borrow me for one trip! B & C agreed for me to go for one voyage, saying they would keep my job offer open. I declined the request and went off on the _Richmond Castle_, living happily ever-after! 
Summary - AEI was a great radio company to work for!
Bob


----------



## P.Arnold

*Radio Company*

I sailed with Marconi for 10 years. I recognised I was an employee and my vessel of appointment was not down to my whims and fancies. I had good ships in that time and was disappointed on one or two occasions when I could not go back on a ship that I had previously spent one or two years on. But I was an employee, to be employed to fulfil the exigencies of the service, much the same as working shore based. 

I had thought of going Freelance, not direct employee. The idea was curtailed after discussions came about with 'Freelance R/Os' who expounded on the benefits of Freelance, ie salary, who then went on to state that as self employed they had to pay for their own repatriation, arrange their NI and tax, and pay for their leave. It suited them, but not me.

As and aside,.... referring to Ron Stringer's note on slow design of equipment etc, and the experience of older members of this forum.

I had on occasion to bring a ship from Port Glasgow to Manchester. I was to have a junior. This was in 1971. My 'junior' had been at sea during WW2, had been torpedoed twice. Had been an R/O with aircraft during the Berlin airlift, then left and joined Kelvin Hughes, land based. When redundancies came about, he opted to go back to sea as an R/O. Marconi's obliged, and to get his sea time in he came with me.

On showing him the radio room, kitted out with O'Span VII, Mercury, Elettra receivers, Auto guard etc etc.

I said, "Bet you have seen some changes since you left the sea"

"NO", came the reply.

No use getting older if you don't get ,,, now what was that?


----------



## Shipbuilder

I didn't see it as unreasonable asking for what I wanted. If they had refused, I would just have accepted it, but they didn't! I knew that I could have earned more money privately employed, but AEI suited me fine, Marconi did not. But it did not stop Marconi trying "beg a favour" from me, even though I had left! 
When I left AEI (or Marconi as it had become), I was on £67 a month after 4 years. My starting pay in B & C was £85!
Bob


----------



## Troppo

Macaroni's Australian equivalent (AWA) certainly had a strangle hold on R/O employment.

There were only 2 or 3 ships that were direct employ. The rest were AWA.

It was good and bad - I enjoyed the variety early in my career, but would have preferred to work for a big shipping company directly, like the Australian National line (ANL).

I ended up working for the one shipping company (via AWA) for 8 years, so I saw both sides.


----------



## Ron Stringer

R651400 said:


> Perhaps stranglehold was a tad strong but without question Marconi and other radio companies monopolised the radio side of British MN employment from beginning to end.


I still think you are puffing up your argument. "Monopoly" in the beginning was certainly true - hell Marconi's created the ship-borne radio service and the radio officer, so until anyone else copied them, they could have been said to hold a monopoly. But radio was too important a facility to be left in the hands of any one company and governments around the world were quick to allow others into the field to widen their shipping companies' access to marine communications. Well before WW2 there were independent training establishments for R/Os and it was possible for any shipowner or manpower supplier to employ their own men. That they preferred to do otherwise did not create a monopoly; they voluntarily chose to take the easiest way out and let others worry about the training and provision of R/Os.

The fact that the marine radio supply companies employed such a large proportion of radio officers aboard UK ships was more down to decisions take by (sceptics may say apathy on behalf of) shipowners than any action, monopolistic or otherwise, taken by the radio companies. Making, supplying and repairing equipment was a doddle compared with running a manpower supply service to maintain a round-the-clock, world-wide, provision basis. 

R/O Peter, while staggering back to the, ship falls into a storm drain in KL and is hospitalised. His ship is about to sail for Colombo and must have a replacement without delay. "Make sure that the replacement has experience on our data logging system and can handle the new radars aboard, which have been giving some problems. So what it is Bank Holiday weekend? Get me the man at once or the radio room order for the new building(s) at Hyundai will be going elsewhere." 

Every man who went sick, went AWOL on the coast of Oz/NZ, whose wife or girlfriend sent him a Dear John, whose parent/spouse was taken ill, who had a row with the Captain, or took to the bottle, all required an immediate response. Someone had to be found from the limited pool of people available - on leave, on in-house training courses or wherever. No possibility of temporarily "promoting" a junior engineer or navigating apprentice on board to cover a watchkeeping position. Not hard to see why many owners were reluctant to make the change to direct-employ.


----------



## R651400

You're lengthy replies in Marconi support appear a helluva lot more puffy than anything I've advocated on an open employment situation giving certificated British Radio Officers a choice of shipping company.
I'm not au fait with other nationalities but the most powerful Union in Greek shipping when I was freelance was the their equivalent of the British ROU which in my case gave me a starting salary equivalent to that of a Chief Officer...
Is your own Marconi cradle to grave situation not clouding the real issue on how it could have been with a similar situation under the Red Duster?
Three simplistic things to ponder choice of shipping company, wages and status.


----------



## P.Arnold

Ron
To clear my good name.
I wasn't that R/O Peter.
Now where was I in KL?


----------



## cajef

R651400 said:


> the British ROU


And they were a useless waste of space with no clout as far as negotiating anything was concerned, when I enquired with their rep. in Liverpool about going freelance when I left college with a 1st Class ticket all he did was talk me out of it and kept saying I should join Marconi, seeing as he practically spent all his time in their office it didn't surprise me.


----------



## R651400

That surprises me cajef
My only experience of the ROU was reading their magazine "Signal" that had a list of Marconi/Siemens/IMR representatives one could contact world-wide including then free-lance Norman Yarrow with Niarchos and whom I had the occasion to meet in the Gulf. 
Norman from memory was a keen ROU rep and as far as I know at this time circa 1960 many free lance slots came via the ROU with possible reason being a first avenue to explore when a FOC company was in urgent need of a R/O replacement.


----------



## Ron Stringer

R651400 said:


> You're lengthy replies in Marconi support appear a helluva lot more puffy than anything I've advocated on an open employment situation giving certificated British Radio Officers a choice of shipping company.


Not at all, I am not trying to make a case so cannot be accused of exaggerating its validity. 

On the other hand you claim that there was not an open market in the supply/employment of Radio Officers aboard the British Merchant ships. In support of your argument and without providing any evidence, you first claimed that Marconi had a "stranglehold" on the supply of R/Os to the British MN. When I queried that statement, you modified your position slightly, to an equally sweeping "Marconi and other radio companies monopolised the radio side of British MN employment from beginning to end."

I then pointed out that apart from the early, start-up years, where the service, established by Marconi, could be considered a largely experimental/voluntarily fitted facility (i.e from the inception of marine radio in 1900 until the introduction of international regulations following the loss of *Titanic* in 1912),there was neither a monopoly nor a stranglehold by any one company. If there had been, the ITU Radio Regulations and the SOLAS agreements could never have come into existence.

From that time onwards, there was as open a market in the UK as there ever was in Greece. I agree that, unlike the Greek situation that you describe, the British ROU/REOU were not major suppliers of R/Os but make no comment on whether or not I consider that was a good thing.

BTC and Shell, P&O and B&C, Blue Funnel and Elder Dempster are examples of large UK shipping companies that went down the direct-employ route (some earlier than others). They didn't do anything that every UK shipping company could not have done at any time post-WW1. I don't know why so many British shipping companies decided not to choose that option but I am convinced that they did not do so because of a non-existent, Marconi "stranglehold", or (ignoring the oxymoron) any "monopoly" of several radio companies.


----------



## trotterdotpom

cajef said:


> And they were a useless waste of space with no clout as far as negotiating anything was concerned, when I enquired with their rep. in Liverpool about going freelance when I left college with a 1st Class ticket all he did was talk me out of it and kept saying I should join Marconi, seeing as he practically spent all his time in their office it didn't surprise me.


I'm pretty sure I got a Freelance job through the REOU. Their Agency operation was stuffed up by MNAOA because of apparent sour grapes.

John T


----------



## Naytikos

Ron, your background details are always fascinating.
R651400, having followed a similar career route I agree with most of your points.

I believe it boils down to market forces: free competition for the services of an R/O meant that an individual could usually negotiate his own conditions. When I first went to Niarchos the normal contract for all sea staff was 12 months, (at a time when UK articles were still two years). I asked for six and got it without any questions. I then stayed 15 months on my first ship with them and thereafter could ask for anything within reason. There was a degree of co-ordination between Greek-owned companies with respect to salaries, but that didn't get in the way of private deals being done at all levels: It just depended upon what was necessary to keep the show on the road.

I think that because Marconis were a British company and UK flag ships were the first to make use of wireless communications most British shipowners, not really willing to bear the cost of specialised equipment they were not familiar with, nor a skilled person to operate it, brushed the whole concept to one side by engaging an outside contractor to deal with it.
As mentioned by RS651400 Radio Holland were in a similar position, as were DEBEG in Germany.
Other flags did not have home-grown suppliers of equipment, much less operators, and so a free market for both arose.


----------



## Troppo

Very good point re home grown suppliers.


----------



## R651400

Troppo said:


> Macaroni's Australian equivalent (AWA) certainly had a strangle hold on R/O employment...


 As I saw circa '58 when I went for an interview in Sydney and though salary was on par with British direct-employ and I was accepted, decided to stay where I was.


----------



## expats

trotterdotpom said:


> I'm pretty sure I got a Freelance job through the REOU. Their Agency operation was stuffed up by MNAOA because of apparent sour grapes.
> 
> John T


I was a Marconi 'techie' at Grimsby in the early 1970's (lasted no time at all) and I got a Freelance job thru the REOU rep.....He sorted me out several trips....one was a strikebound ship in Newcastle, I signed for 6 months and spent 6 weeks at home - on pay waiting for a call....


----------



## jimg0nxx

The ROU rep in Hull was I believe the main freelance recruiter. Think his name was Reg White.


----------



## johnvvc

I obtained my 2nd. Class PMG at the Wireless Academy at Colwyn Bay and subsequently joined Marconi. In retrospect I must have thought it was the thing to do, I was probably unaware of the various options and College staff may well have suggested Marconi as a possible employer. In any event this was my first job and I was probably a bit green ‘round the gills. A short while later crossing the Atlantic on an ore carrier I was even greener ‘round the gills !!!

As time passed and I met and spoke to other R/O’s the possibility of going freelance started sounding more interesting – until I went aboard a Greek rust bucket in Taiwan – Keelung or Kaoishung – can’t remember which. The R/O was a Scotsman and as the Greek was berthed just astern of us he came across and introduced himself. We had a few beers and he invited me over. 

To say it was an eye opener would be an understatement. The ship wasn’t old – she was an antique and had radio gear to match… Some of the gear didn’t work and the R/O didn’t have spares, he said he’d given up trying to get shore assistance as the shipowner didn’t want to pay. He said that when he joined he’d found he had only one aerial so I gave him a spare coil of copper wire I had. 

I’m sure the above was not typical and few freelance berths ended in tears but it did put me off. 

Ironically I had earlier enquired with Universe Tankships and when I came back from the Far East I got a telegramme asking me if I was still interested as they required an R/O on, I think it was the Daphne or the Apollo. By then of course I’d decided to stay with Marconi - better the devil you know etc etc.

During my time with Marconi I sailed on colliers, ore carriers, banana boats and tramps and had a great time. In their defence I always found them good to work for. Apart from the fact that their wages left a bit to be desired, seem to remember I started on £37 a month, the main complaint one often heard was that it could be almost impossible getting any leave. I never found this to be a problem. If I’d been on board for a while, wanted some leave and the ship was due in the UK I would send the appropriate depot a telegramme saying I would be paying off and requesting they arrange a replacement. It was never refused.

When I eventually came ashore I joined the Coast Station Service, only leaving when it became obvious that the service could not continue in it’s present form.

It’s been said so many times but we really were at sea at the best time, now with small crews and quick turnarounds it could never be the same.

Incidentally I never went back to do my 1st – and half way through a Radiolocator Mk4 Radar Course at Cardiff I was sent to joint a ship at short notice. Whether this impacted on my sea going career I will never know – and I don’t really care.

Happy memories.


----------



## Ron Stringer

P.Arnold said:


> Ron
> To clear my good name.
> I wasn't that R/O Peter.
> Now where was I in KL?


No, it wasn't you! The name came into my head out of the mists of times long past.

In 1961 I was on a _*Radiolocator IV/Quo Vadis*_ course in Cardiff and finished the MkIV course but the evening before *Quo Vadis* course started I was sent by train to Avonmouth to join Constantines' mv _*Lochwood*_, whose regular R/O had been rushed to hospital. By Sods' Law, of course she was sailing that night, for Cardiff, and had a *Quo Vadis* radar.

During the trip, on the way back from Tunis to Avonmouth I got a telegram saying that my father had suffered a heart attack and was in hospital in Manchester and I would be relieved on arrival. I was relieved by an elderly gentleman who complained that he had been roused from his bed that morning and taken by taxi to the ship because my intended relief had gone elsewhere.

Some years later, long after I went ashore, I was talking to a MIMCo technician about our time at sea and discussing 'happenings'. He told me about the time that he was at home, having finished his leave but was enjoying an extension because they couldn't find a ship for him. He was looking forward to a few more lunchtimes in the pub when he got a telegram asking him join a Constantine's ship a couple of days later in Avonmouth to relieve the R/O, whose father had suffered a heart attack. 

However much to his disgust, since he was looking forward to a leisurely cruise around the Med, the night before he was due to join he got another panic telegram directing him to Heathrow instead, to fly out to a run-down tramp in KL, where the R/O had fallen into a drainage ditch and suffered one or more broken limbs. Apparently he had a terrible time on that ship until he could get off some months later. The Old Man had a down on R/Os and made many references to his predecessor who was referred to as Permanently Pissed Peter.


----------



## P.Arnold

Ron
Never in KL and never "permanently Pi..". Well I don't think so.


----------



## GBXZ

Looking back I do not seem to remember or recall any advice from Riversdale as to where or who you could or should work for. I and a few others were sent to Mimco in Pall Mall and that was that. Next stop the Shipping Federation for a discharge book and ID card. 
I worked (served?) two years with MIMCO, no regrets and I Moved on to a more interesting company. 
I never got to keep my Marconi pay book.


----------



## R651400

Keeping the reference point within living memory in 1956 from the six companies mentioned #37 only two (Blue Funnel and P&O) were direct employ and to that I can add a handful of others eg Brocklebank, NZSC, Union Castle, Reardon Smith, Paddy Henderson etc. 
A swift glance at Le Fleming's ABC of Ocean Liners of the time shows the R/O count for all the direct-employ above was something like the equivalent to one Marconi manned company ie Ellermans and that is without mentioning the enormous complement of R/O's supplied by Marconi/Simens/IMR to British flag tanker(BTC/Shell etc) tramp (Ropner/Buries Marks etc) or (where applicable) British coastal shipping companies.
The end result of this was (whether one accepts the the terminology radio company stranglehold/monopoly or not) that all British certificated PMG2 or PMG2+radar R/O's had little or no option but to join one of the radio triumvirate and accept their conditions of service and salary. I consider myself very fortunate to have had an alternative choice.
Naytikos has probably hit the nail on the head for the main reason why the majority of British ship-owners preferred the radio company to direct-employ option and can one really blame them.
Reading various SN comments over the years on this very same subject and by interpretation it could be said that had UK flag R/O employment been entirely direct-employ plus consolidation on similar par with the Greeks perhaps the demise of our chosen metier may have been a lot slower or if at all.


----------



## expats

jimg0nxx said:


> The ROU rep in Hull was I believe the main freelance recruiter. Think his name was Reg White.


That's him.....It was a conversation with him that got me onto Freelance; one of the best decisions I've ever made....I owe him a lot


----------



## R651400

johnvvc said:


> ....Ironically I had earlier enquired with Universe Tankships and when I came back from the Far East I got a telegramme asking me if I was still interested as they required an R/O on, I think it was the Daphne or the Apollo....


 Not giving any specific date for this one all I can say is you missed out on freelance's Golden Goose. 
D K Ludwig's National Bulk Carriers and Universe Tankships was like trying to get into Fort Knox in my time.


----------



## Peter Eccleson

expats said:


> That's him.....It was a conversation with him that got me onto Freelance; one of the best decisions I've ever made....I owe him a lot


Never found the REOU a very effective organisation in my time at sea (up to 1981). Perhaps 'morphing' into an employment agency was about as useful as they got.
We had a flagging out dispute on Cunard Countess in about 1978 and the REOU just rolled over and supported the NUS at the time without lobbying Cunard R/O's opinion or giving us the facts.


----------



## expats

Peter Eccleson said:


> Never found the REOU a very effective organisation in my time at sea (up to 1981). Perhaps 'morphing' into an employment agency was about as useful as they got.
> We had a flagging out dispute on Cunard Countess in about 1978 and the REOU just rolled over and supported the NUS at the time without lobbying Cunard R/O's opinion or giving us the facts.


I can't say I ever had much involvement with the REOU as an organisation. However, I found the individual 'reps' I contacted of great help....
When working for Sealink I did a 'General Cert'....Two days before the exam the Sealink supervisor (an ex-captain) insisted that I returned to duty. He refused to listen to any reason and threatened to have me sacked when I refused...The Harwich rep attended a meeting with me and managed to get management backing in allowing me to take the exam and then return...


----------



## Steven Lamb

A cheapo box of King Eddy's from the States or from the ship's bond normally did the trick for Bob Porter in the Marconi Liverpool office - I always got good jobs off him !

Happy days
Rgds / 73's
Lamby


----------



## Varley

Poor old Bob. If you'd given those to a dishonest man he'd have sent you to the Stonehaven.


----------



## R651400

I know you don't mean GND but more the birthplace of my first-born. Was there a reason for Denholm's (which I assume was the company) giving this name?


----------



## Varley

I would have said Stonehavenradio. Wouldn't I?

No, Stonehaven/GYXD ex Hopepark. Perhaps if your firstborn had been a Denholm that would have been a good reason! I hope he or she does not deprecate my used of GYXD as my ringtone. The only office wallah still with us who might know is my leader Mr. Brown. Haven't spoken to him for years.

When I remember all the names I will tell you the story of why she was, for some, a punishment.

(Punishment ship, Chief! Punishment ship! what the f... do you think we're on now?)


----------



## randcmackenzie

Ah, yes - punishment ship.

The of repeated cry on the Dalma was ' The sack is no threat here!'


----------



## Varley

I had overlooked Dalma. I am not so sure she didn't come second (or perhaps third if we include Morar). No 'fridge on Stonehaven was ever as well stocked 'though!


----------



## R651400

Varley said:


> I would have said Stonehavenradio. Wouldn't I?


But of course and why should I have questioned one of SN's puritanicals?
On thread subject Stonehaven/GYXD does move the goal posts somewhat from a myriad of Marconi cargo liner to tramp ship choice in the beginning and ending with Denholm's punishment hulks?


----------



## Varley

I don't think the thread was specifically Marconi or tramping. But I bow to your more liberal sensibilities. GYXD was, I suppose, just an excuse to talk of myself. She wasn't even under Bob's wing but East Ham (where, indeed, one was summonsed by morse - but they had a sense of humour there as well).


----------



## R651400

I actually thought that East Ham to St Vincent Street or was it Square had somewhat evaporated...
Leave you to talk Denholm's..


----------



## trotterdotpom

Steven Lamb said:


> A cheapo box of King Eddy's from the States or from the ship's bond normally did the trick for Bob Porter in the Marconi Liverpool office - I always got good jobs off him !
> 
> Happy days
> Rgds / 73's
> Lamby


Now I know where I went wrong! After I blotted my copy book with Marconis, Mr Porter wouldn't let me do the voyage after coasting on a cargo ship but he put me on another one sailing from Cardiff to Glasgow. I rang him from Glasgow and asked if I could go deep sea and he said no but would I fly over to Rotterdam to join some other cargo ship to do the coast. I was tempted because doing the coast was a riot but it was obviously all going to end in tears so I told him to jam it.

That same day, I wandered down to Buchanan Street and discovered that the grass really was greener on the other side of the street.

John T


----------



## Varley

R651400 said:


> I actually thought that East Ham to St Vincent Street or was it Square had somewhat evaporated...
> Leave you to talk Denholm's..


Strange indeed. To protect commercial interests the Stonehaven was not officially managed by Denholm but by Stonehaven Ship Management 3? Renfield Street - the back door of 120 St. Vincent Street. Perhaps it was meant to aid the subterfuge that they dealt with East Ham (not sure if Glasgow ever did personnel....?). Both Marconi and Denholm Ship Management have indeed gone. The latter subsumed into AngloEastern. The Denholm Group is still very much alive 'though, just not in ship management.


----------



## P.Arnold

Steven Lamb said:


> A cheapo box of King Eddy's from the States or from the ship's bond normally did the trick for Bob Porter in the Marconi Liverpool office - I always got good jobs off him !
> 
> Happy days
> Rgds / 73's
> Lamby


Never got any bad ships from Bob, however after just getting my 6 months sea time in, he did say he had a good ship for me.
How long is the trip? I asked
You'll like this one,
How long is the trip? I asked
You get to fly to New York
How long, etc etc.
12 months.
One of the best experiences, on a 1609grt Booth Line from New York, through the W Indies, up the Amazon to Iquitos. 4 round trips total,lasting 15 months.


Good times
I still see Bob


----------



## R651400

Varley said:


> (not sure if Glasgow ever did personnel....?).


So Buchanan Street previously mentioned a figment of imagination? 
Was thinking along the lines of St Vincent Street by day as a freelance operative eg "Naess" and by night if you were that way inclined and had the money.. Bottle of Shettleston Beaujolais" inclusive...


----------



## Varley

Sorry OM but I can't reference Buchanan Street on this thread. However Intercity House was in Buchanan Street and that housed that part of the empire to which Sir Ian decamped sometime after I came ashore. It also housed the minibulker empire of Bob Speedie and Denholm MacLay but I thought they were all 1599ers and none of us (wearing R/O hat, here) would have needed to darken that doorstep.

I didn't know we did any direct employ until after I came ashore (but that is probably the big head). The ex Naess Crusader (for instance) was Kelvin Hughes contract.


----------



## trotterdotpom

It was I who mentioned Buchanan Street - stomping ground of Scottish Ship Management.

John T


----------



## R651400

Ooops misread your post ie assumed there must've been another Marconi or maybe an IMR office somewhere on Buchanan Street...


----------



## Varley

There certainly was a depot in Glasgow. The last address I can see is Loanbank Quadrant, Helen Street, Govan. Thinking back on it the GTV appointments were made from Liverpool despite actual calls in Greenock which reinforces my thoughts that it didn't do crewing (a busy building and repair area of old maybe it was assigned only that business).


----------



## trotterdotpom

All Marconi manning on the west coast was handled by Liverpool after about 1971.

John T


----------



## R651400

Passing thru the bustling port of Leith in 1954 and seeing the Marconi office daily en route to Leith Nautical College it always looked a sad dismal hole giving little inspiration to where my future metier lay. 
Happily one of the staff was a very obliging gentleman ie the technician who kitted out GTZM gear on Henry Robb Leith new-builds who allowed me to see how it was done circa '55 on Wilson's "Rollo" and Currie's "Zeeland.."
Question still hits me today with a PMG2 pass what ship I would have been assigned to from GTZM Leith par comparison with East Ham or Southampton and one wonders as I recall why all LNC PMG passes prior to mine opted for IMR Glasgow?


----------



## Varley

The perception while at college was that IMR sought the cream of the crop - 2nd class never seemed to be much of an issue (not so many passenger vessels in our time I expect). I think it more likely that the difference would be in owner and the company and depot contracted. I am sure IMR must have contracted someone's punishment ships from time to time.

(I have just found my second joining instruction, first as FIRST! for the Tilapa at Genoa for GBP 24 per month. This was arranged by MIMCO's SOUTHAMPTON Depot).


----------



## bbyrne98

trotterdotpom said:


> All Marconi manning on the west coast was handled by Liverpool after about 1971.
> 
> John T


.. except for Morecambe Bay ...


----------



## bbyrne98

Steven Lamb said:


> A cheapo box of King Eddy's from the States or from the ship's bond normally did the trick for Bob Porter in the Marconi Liverpool office - I always got good jobs off him !
> 
> Happy days
> Rgds / 73's
> Lamby


Ah, so that's how it was done ... I recall in my naievety writing to Robin Seaton bleating about favouritism in Liverpool (we all did stupid things in our youth, let's be honest) .. should have copied Bob in but, em, forgot. I can vividly recall Bob's face as he (justifiably) threw the letter at me. To be fair, I was quite impressed that it had gotten back to Liverpool in a remarkably short time from Hobart. Anyway, we made up later when I worked alongside him, and was always a pleasure. 

He never struck me as a chap who'd be swayed by cigars so, tell me Steve, what's your operational definition of a 'good job'?? Maybe my accusation had some validity?


----------



## Ron Stringer

Varley said:


> I am sure IMR must have contracted someone's punishment ships from time to time.


You can be sure that all the Operating Companies were involved in selling 'pups' to gullible R/Os whenever it suited. They didn't pick and choose their customers so every Company ended up with a (very) mixed bunch of sips and shipowners. So some poor sparks had to take the jobs that were at end of the stick that wasn't so sweet-smelling. Look at my post #16 on this thread to see an example involving IMR.

http://www.shipsnostalgia.com/showthread.php?t=114402&highlight=Frenulina



Varley said:


> I have just found my second joining instruction, first as FIRST! for the Tilapa at Genoa for GBP 24 per month. This was arranged by MIMCO's SOUTHAMPTON Depot).


David,

Your figure (monetary, not physical) is somewhat suspect. If you went to sea in 1971 as stated in your SN profile, you would have been paid substantially more. When I approached MIMCo for a job in 1959 the rate was 28 pounds Sterling per month and when I eventually got a ship in June 1960 the starting rate had risen to 36 pounds Sterling. I suspect that by 1971 it would have been about double that. Someone on here will no doubt have the actual rates!


----------



## Varley

Ron Stringer said:


> You can be sure that all the Operating Companies were involved in selling 'pups' to gullible R/Os whenever it suited. They didn't pick and choose their customers so every Company ended up with a (very) mixed bunch of sips and shipowners. So some poor sparks had to take the jobs that were at end of the stick that wasn't so sweet-smelling. Look at my post #16 on this thread to see an example involving IMR.
> 
> http://www.shipsnostalgia.com/showthread.php?t=114402&highlight=Frenulina
> 
> 
> 
> David,
> 
> Your figure (monetary, not physical) is somewhat suspect. If you went to sea in 1971 as stated in your SN profile, you would have been paid substantially more. When I approached MIMCo for a job in 1959 the rate was 28 pounds Sterling per month and when I eventually got a ship in June 1960 the starting rate had risen to 36 pounds Sterling. I suspect that by 1971 it would have been about double that. Someone on here will no doubt have the actual rates!


Ron, What I should have said is that the instruction was to sign articles at GBP 24/month. If I remember correctly I was actually paid GBP 82(4?)/month as junior so this must have been more. I can't remember if advances etc were even paid from the articled figure, as accrued, or if one was already expected to settle with a cheque.

I had been idly and unsuccessfully looking for my pay book. Would that have been taken back on resigning?


----------



## Varley

Ron, What I should have said is that I was instructed to sign articles at GBP 24/Month. As junior I was paid GBP 82 or 84 per month so this must have been more.

Don't remember if already we were settling advances by cheque or if they did come out of the articled amount.

I have been idly, on and off and unsuccessfully looking for my pay book. Would this have been surrendered on resignation?

Re figure. House guest, junkets etc. find me at 19 St 5 but I managed to put the brake on it at that for last two months. I am now free again so can get back to losing it.


----------



## jimg0nxx

David, yes the paybook was surrendered on resignation. I remember asking to retain it but was told that was not possible.
Jim


----------



## Ron Stringer

David,

In my time you had the option of having either 4, 8 or 12 pounds per month of your salary paid aboard ship. All on-board expenses and advances were subtracted from the amount you had selected. Any over-spend had to be settled in cash or cheque by you prior to leaving the vessel. MIMCo retained the balance of your salary until the end of the voyage (up to 2 years, remember) and you paid off unless, like me, you were a bolshie sod/extremely careful with money, and had it paid into your bank account each month.

I am pretty sure that the pay-book remained the property of MIMCo and was retained by them when you left the Company. I think that is true, others can correct me if they know better. I still have my Seaman's Identity Card, my Discharge Book and my 1st Class PMG Certificate but not my pay-book and I'm sure I would have kept it if permitted.


----------



## R651400

Varley said:


> The perception while at college was that IMR sought the cream of the crop...


When I said all LNC passes previous to mine I should have added during my study time. 
I actually got the impression from the few who did pass in that period preferred IMR partly for the prestige to be a first trip 10th R/O on either Queen Mary/GBTT or Queen Elizabeth/GBSS and as far as I know IMR had all the big Cunarders in their stable with the only exception I recall Mauretania/GTTM. 
You say there were few liner outfits when you first went to sea but back in '56 there was a plethora.
P&O, NZSC, Union Castle and Bibby were all direct employ.
Orient, Canadian Pacific, Royal Mail were in the Marconi stable plus Cargo companies that had the occasional liner such as BI, Shaw Savill, Elder Fyffes. Ellermans etc
Certainly a very good chance of getting a liner for your first trip with either IMR or Marconi though I'm not too sure about Siemens who may possibly have had some liner pickings. 
nb I've quoted this info from memory and I'm sure after 60 years there will be more than one or two glitches... 
Happy days.


----------



## R719220

If my memory serves me correctly, pretty sure some of the Royal Mail "Loch" boats were Siemens.


----------



## R651400

Thanks R71 I had a feeling the old Highland class liners were Siemens but wasn't sure.


----------



## Bob Murdoch

Sorry Ron, but your memory is out also. The starting rate when I joined MIMCo in 1958, April, was £32 per month, which surprised me as the literature when I started studies in 1956 said £28 and that was what I expected but was pleasantly surprised.
I seem to remember that there was a pay rise during my time on the Golfito which would be up to your £36 I guess.
cheers Bob


----------



## cajef

When I started with Marconi in June 63 I was on the princely sum of £48 which went up to £52 after six months, I thought I was well off as a couple of my old school friends had started work as bank clerks on about £30 per month.


----------



## Bob Murdoch

cajef said:


> When I started with Marconi in June 63 I was on the princely sum of £48 which went up to £52 after six months, I thought I was well off as a couple of my old school friends had started work as bank clerks on about £30 per month.


I think we were well off. I was still 16 when I joined Marconi and £32 per month plus food etc was great. I had trouble spending it all[=P] I dont think!
Anyhow, wish it was all starting again, but I am happy and content with where the 58 year trip has brought me
Cheers Bob (Thumb)


----------



## trotterdotpom

Bob, at age 16 did they let you buy beer?

John T


----------



## Varley

Ron, I am sure I would have kept it too and that Jim must be right - my memory suggests that you could present it at any depot and get an advance (perhaps only if your pay was in arrears) so surrendering on leaving does make some sense. Thanks both.


----------



## Ron Stringer

Bob Murdoch said:


> Sorry Ron, but your memory is out also. The starting rate when I joined MIMCo in 1958, April, was £32 per month, which surprised me as the literature when I started studies in 1956 said £28 and that was what I expected but was pleasantly surprised.


Clearly the literature I was sent in 1959, Bob, was the same that you saw in 1956! The wages had changed but the paperwork lagged behind, as usual. 

I think that the jump to £36 took place earlier in 1960 and I recall thinking that if the salary went up so quickly (from £28 to £36 in only one year, as I thought) I would soon be well-off. It was only later that I found out that the frequency and amount of R/O's salary increases were far less!


----------



## Ron Stringer

R719220 said:


> If my memory serves me correctly, pretty sure some of the Royal Mail "Loch" boats were Siemens.


And the big 'A' passenger boats.


----------



## Moulder

Joined Marconi July 1972 - starting pay as Junior R/O was £84 per month.

The paybook did indeed have to be surrendered on leaving the company as was the small 'advances' book.

(Thumb)


----------



## Bob Murdoch

trotterdotpom said:


> Bob, at age 16 did they let you buy beer?
> 
> John T


My first ship was the BTC Falaise, on coasting articles. We got a duty free allowance of 200 **** and one bottle of spirits per month. I could claim and pay like everyone else. By the time I went on the Golfito, I had reached 17! There I could sign a chit like everyone else, though to be honest, I was not much interested in beer.
My next ship Elleman's Wilson Line's Tasso, on my own, was where I was introduced to the pleasures of alcohol and the dire after effects, by a great bunch of mainly Hull shipmates. 
I am afraid my pleasure in beer et al , lasted up till about a year ago, when I seem to have lost it, still enjoy my wine, rum etc. though
Only place I got asked my age was my first day in NZ in thelong bar of the Waverly in Auckland, I was 18 by then. The barman told me I was in the wrong bar anyway, NZSCO blokes drank in the back bar so I w ent there with no further problems.
great days indeed
cheers Bob


----------



## R651400

Moulder said:


> Joined Marconi July 1972 - starting pay as Junior R/O was £84 per month....


Amazing the low Marconi/IMR/Siemens pay scale some ten years after I left free-lancing. 
Circa 1960 freelance a qualified R/O similar to quotes was on £100 pm plus bonuses.
Recall a qualified American R/O with me in Marchessini who had some physical disability and didn't make US flag standards..
God knows what salary scale he would have achieved under the US flag compared with mine and other free-lancers of the time.


----------



## R719220

Ron Stringer said:


> And the big 'A' passenger boats.


Yes. Amazon, Arlanza and Aragon (The Three Graces?).

It beggars belief now to think of the confidence in the future that Royal Mail must have had to have these ships built in just two years only to see everything turn to dross so quickly over the next five years.


----------



## Wismajorvik

R719220 said:


> Yes. Amazon, Arlanza and Aragon (The Three Graces?).
> 
> It beggars belief now to think of the confidence in the future that Royal Mail must have had to have these ships built in just two years only to see everything turn to dross so quickly over the next five years.


Believe Royal Mail had contracts with the Brazilian and Argentinian governments to ship immigrants from Iberia to those countries which paid for the A boats build.
In the summer of 1962 I was taken on by AEI, (Siemens) at £38 17s 6d per month but by the time I was found a ship this had risen to £40 10s per month.


----------



## jimg0nxx

I started with Marconi in January 1962 and was also on £38 17s 6d, which was the NMB rate at that time.


----------



## R651400

I started freelance with Niarchos in March 1960 at £75..
Greek R/Os on Greek flag and Greek owned flag of convenience ships were paid more.. Something out of kilter somewhere!


----------



## jimg0nxx

Undoubtly the rate on FOC ships was higher, but I believe most got little or no leave pay. The rate quoted on British ships was the starting rate and increments came into play after 6 months and annually. I am sure some FOC ships were good, but I remember a UK R/O from a Greek owned Liberian ship coming on board Trecarrell in Rosario begging for food - a most unhappy chappie.


----------



## R651400

To bum food from another ship (Hungry Hains!) anywhere is bad enough in itself but Rosario where meat was presumably cheap and steaks as big as double decker buses is mind boggling. Was he a vegetarian?
Can only speak for myself moving from four years direct employ with it's higher than radio company pay scale, cradle to grave trimmings ie leave and ultimately a pension in exchange for a vastly higher salary not to mention zero bullsh1t was incentive enough.
The Greek equivalent of the ROU was a very powerful body negotiating their members' salary should be on par with the 1st Mate and C/E. 
FOC gave Greek ship owners a chance to cir***vent this but not by much. 
Outside the Greek spectrum better payers were companies like Universe Tankships and National Bulk carriers and occasionally other flags such as Scandinavian and Israel.


----------



## david.hopcroft

When I started with AEI straight out of college in April 1963 it was £40.10s. 

David
+


----------



## P.Arnold

R719220 said:


> Yes. Amazon, Arlanza and Aragon (The Three Graces?).
> 
> It beggars belief now to think of the confidence in the future that Royal Mail must have had to have these ships built in just two years only to see everything turn to dross so quickly over the next five years.


Didn't these A boats go over to Shaw Saville 'white heron' fleet with Southern Cross and Northern Star, named Akaroa, Arawa, ??

No use getting older if you don't get..... Where was I?


----------



## Troppo

I have been told by a friend who was a P and O passenger ship R/O that the company only took on new R/Os from certain colleges.

Is this so?


----------



## trotterdotpom

Do you mean for technical ability or because of "Class conciousness"? I attended a few colleges at one time or another and there wasn't much difference between any of them. I knew a couple of blokes from Grimsby (very salubrious) who joined P&O Passenger Division. 

In the days when a First Class ticket was a requirement on passenger ships, I suspect they would have taken anybody who had one.

John T


----------



## Troppo

trotterdotpom said:


> Do you mean for technical ability or because of "Class conciousness"?
> 
> John T


Both, so I was told.

Sounds like typical P and O BS...

B\)


----------



## Ivor Lloyd

I went to sea in 1942 as Junior (3rd) R/O.
Wages £9.17s.6d per month. This was supplemented by a monthly War Bonus payment of £10 per month whilst on Articles
Ivor


----------



## Roger Bentley

Signed on Bibby's Lancashire as 4th RO in September 1950 - We sailed on my 17th birthday In October. Pay was £20 a month. Mind you we did get the UN extra when in Korean Waters, mine came to £5. Paid off with just over £6. So it did help. Great days still remembered as I suppose all first trips were. Cheers, Roger


----------



## Wismajorvik

Recollect submitting our own pay sheets with AEI. Basic plus Tanker allowance, East of Suez allowance, Sundays at Sea, Prolonged voyage allowance. Claiming 5s 4d a day subsistence allowance while on earned leave. Doubt if I ever got one right!


----------



## R651400

Troppo said:


> Sounds like typical P and O BS...


 It was a direct employ liner company who demanded high qualifications from it's new entrants... Were you one of them?


----------



## david.hopcroft

Re #100 this is what they 'morphed' into.

David
+


----------



## Troppo

R651400 said:


> It was a direct employ liner company who demanded high qualifications from it's new entrants... Were you one of them?


With the greatest possible respect, pull your head in.

I was but a humble P and O GCD (general cargo division) juniour. 

Did you see my post? It had a smiling emoticon at the end, which indicates that I was joking....having sampled the delights of P and O and the Naval Reserve for 27 years, I know all about pointless BS...

Lighten up.


----------



## R651400

Sorry if I touched a raw nerve.. Not really into emoticons or whatever they're called. Thought you may have sailed P&O but obviously not..


----------



## GBXZ

Posh R/Os in the P&O eh? That sort of implies posh Engineers.


----------



## R651400

I draw this not from personal experience but a dear friend of mine and his lovely wife both spending their entire sea-time with P&O. 
You can almost say the evocative word posh smacks of P&O and they certainly maintained the highest of demand when it came to recruitment.


----------



## trotterdotpom

GBXZ said:


> Posh R/Os in the P&O eh? That sort of implies posh Engineers.


"Posh" is relative, GBXZ. I knew some roughies who worked for P&O but they could turn it on if they wanted to. 

I do recall going home for a meal with a lady in Auckland and she expressed surprise that I didn't eat with the food hanging out of my mouth. Mind you her ex husband was a Chief Engineer.

John T


----------

