# What are the Correct Rules for Courtesy Flags



## alastairrussell (Jun 19, 2007)

On 7th June a P and O Passenger ship entered Cairns Harbour (AUS) with a British Blue ensign flighing from the extreme right hand side of the mast. When she was being turned around off her Berth the UK flag was swapped for an AUS blue ensign?

I have photographs of both Flags!


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## Mad Landsman (Dec 1, 2005)

The Blue ensign would indicate that the Captain is probably an RNR Officer - That is his personal ensign and does not go with the ship. 

In port the Ensign would be flown on the stern and the Courtesy flag, not an Ensign, worn on the starboard hoist of the main mast.

All correct as I see it.


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## woodend (Nov 23, 2009)

I'm afraid it sounds to me like a serious 'boo boo' was dropped and whoever put the flags up for arrival grabbed the wrong Blue Ensign. (RNR Blue Ensign picked out of the flag locker instead of the Australian National Blue Ensign. Easily done.) Probably got a right Royal bollocking when it was spotted. 
Courtesy ensign is flown at the starboard yard but I have never heard of the RNR Blue Ensign being flown there. That is flown at the gaff when under-way or over the stern when anchored or moored and then only if there is RNR entitlement by way of the Captain.[=P]


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## chadburn (Jun 2, 2008)

Mad Landsman said:


> The Blue ensign would indicate that the Captain is probably an RNR Officer - That is his personal ensign and does not go with the ship.
> 
> In port the Ensign would be flown on the stern and the Courtesy flag, not an Ensign, worn on the starboard hoist of the main mast.
> 
> All correct as I see it.


Flag etiquette goes back a long way and is based on the R.N. version on how it should be carried out, the RNR Officer requires a Warrant to be able to use the Blue Ensign and indeed it is responsibility to ensure that when he leaves the vessel his Blue Ensign goes with him.
Ensigns are worn not flown.


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## slick (Mar 31, 2006)

All,
Re - the wearing of a Blue Ensign, I seem to remember, the Master another Officer and a PO/ Rating were required to be RNR Officers.
In Palm Line (early 60's) one Master always required that this minimum was required and maintained on his ship, indeed I was moved on as I wasn't RNR.
On Paying Off I went home (East Ham) and whilst on leave made enquiries regarding joining the RNR, I was told that the RNR weren't looking for former or current personnel serving in 'Tramps', end of my enquiries.

Yours aye,
slick


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## trotterdotpom (Apr 29, 2005)

I've done a couple of P&O cruises from Brisbane and both Captains were Italian - cool dudes but unlikely to be in the RNR. Which ship was it that was in Cairns?

As Woodend says, it is most likely that someone dropped a bollock and hoisted the wrong flag. 

It used to be that the correct courtesy flag for a Merchant Ship in Australia was the Australian Red Ensign but apparently they can fly the national flag now ... either that or nobody gives a sh1t anymore.

John T


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## chadburn (Jun 2, 2008)

Just to add to my # 4, if the Warrant Holder goes ashore for any particular reason but is still in Command of the vessel the Blue Ensign remains worn, however if he goes on leave and therefore no longer in Command the Blue Ensign is removed. 
In regard to the comment by Slick there is possibly another reason why the Master insisted on that level of compliment regarding RNR, all to do with the Cold War etc.


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## Mad Landsman (Dec 1, 2005)

Yes Chad, Flag flown, Ensign worn - I got it the wrong way round but realised that I may have made a mistake after I shut down - couldn't bother to go back on line to check.... 

Thinking further - It all depends where exactly the flag or ensign were flown or worn. 
If it was in the centreline it was correct for an ensign, while underway, as I understand; If it was on the starboard yard then it was correct for the courtesy flag. 

As John T says the Australian Merchant Ensign is red - So was the intention to use the National Flag or the National Ensign? The Ensign being strictly correct - but what if you do not have one in the locker?


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## Aberdonian (Apr 7, 2011)

*Courtesy Flag*

My recollection is the courtesy flag is flown from the foremast crosstree, stabd.
This on a vessel with more than one mast, of course.

Keith


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## Mad Landsman (Dec 1, 2005)

Just as a matter of interest - An occasion when both the (Blue) Ensign and the Courtesy ensign/flag are worn on the mast. Together with Cunard house flag and the Pilot flag. 

Transiting the Suez Canal on the Queen Mary 2 when the Captain was a retired RNR Officer:


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## Chris Isaac (Jul 29, 2006)

Mad Landsman said:


> Just as a matter of interest - An occasion when both the (Blue) Ensign and the Courtesy ensign/flag are worn on the mast. Together with Cunard house flag and the Pilot flag.
> 
> Transiting the Suez Canal on the Queen Mary 2 when the Captain was a retired RNR Officer:


That's fine, the Blue Ensign is on the gaff, it would be moved to the stern once the vessel is no longer under way.


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## richardwakeley (Jan 4, 2010)

On modern ships with just a Radar/Signal mast, the courtesy flag is worn on stbd side of it, with ship's national ensign down aft. In any case, the courtesy ensign must be the higher. About 14 years ago I was on a short voyage aboard a Hong Kong flag Bulker in the USA, installing radars. On standby on the afternoon 4-8, approaching the Aransas Pass pilot station, a young first trip cadet was sent to hoist the courtesy ensign. I was just enjoying the scenery on a fine evening as we went through the pass, with a lot of shoresiders watching us go through on our way up to Corpus Christi. About half an hour later we were suddenly surrounded and boarded by armed forces from rubber outboard boats, all mustered aft under armed guard and questioned one by one, in a very unfriendly manner. The US flag was upside down. This was just a few months after 9-11.


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## alastairrussell (Jun 19, 2007)

Thanks for all the Info supplied.

The ships name was the Dawn Princess.

The flags flying from her flag mast when she entered Cairns harbour were the following:

From port to starb.

1 A flag which I could not recognise but it was the same as the 
flag flying up front on the focsle.

2-3 The P&O house flag or a pilots flag(or Vice Versa)?? 

4 A large UK red ensign on the centre line. 

5 A slightly smaller UK blue ensign to starb. This was the flag that was swapped with a de-faced Australian blue ensign when ship was being turned around to point down river.


In Australia the Southern Cross defaced red ensign is restricted to registered commercial vessels and that all yachts and small craft fly the defaced Blue ensign


I apologise for not being up to posting a photo on this site.

Thanks again for all your help

Alastair


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## Mad Landsman (Dec 1, 2005)

Woodend at #3 seems to have hit the nail on the head! - A big boo boo!

I was just giving the benefit of doubt - undeserved as it happens.


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## Binnacle (Jul 22, 2005)

In Long Beach on the day of president Kennedy's funeral longshoremen complained that our courtesy flag was not at half mast, so we obliged. Our Red Ensign was at half mast.


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## trotterdotpom (Apr 29, 2005)

alastairrussell said:


> Thanks for all the Info supplied.
> 
> The ships name was the Dawn Princess.
> 
> ...


Did flag 1 have four triangles of blue, white, red, yellow?That is the P&O house flag

If flag 2-3 was white and red (vertical), that is the H flag meaning "I have a pilot on board".

Flag 5 is the Australian National Flag, i.e. a UK Blue Ensign with the southern cross added. Not sure if the Australian National Flag should be described as a defaced blue ensign or not.

"Dawn Princess" is a commercial vessel so, according to your criterion, she should have been flying the Australian Red Ensign (see above comment re "defaced"), but this topic has arisen in the past and apparently it is now OK for ships to use the blue national flag as a courtesy flag even if I don't like it.

Mad Landsman commented (#*) that the ship may not have the correct flag on board but a ship regularly visiting Australian ports should have one, you'd think. However, a British ship manned by Italians and Filipinos probably doesn't give a fish's t1t.

John T

PS If the ship was arriving from overseas, she should also have been flying the yellow Q flag meaning "my vessel is healthy", otherwise there was a fair chance she was carrying herpes, AIDS and the Common Cold.


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## Stephen J. Card (Nov 5, 2006)

I have seen a few 'interesting' flags on some of the Saga ships. 

Malta ensign or Bahamas ensign (depending which ship) on the stern of the gaff when underway. Pilot flags, Q, Saga houseflag and courtesy flags.... all quite correct.

But there us always an extra on the yard like the following:

1. Blue ensign on the yard... Captain RNR

2. Flag of St David on the yard.... Captain David Warden-Owen

3. Cornish ensign on the yard... Cornish Captain!

4. One extra event. Greenland, Bahamas ensign, Saga houseflag. I gave a plain flag St Perrins to the Captain. He also flew the Cornish ensign on the yard. The plain flag was hoisted as a stem jack. Made this painting while I was on board. OK... all just in good fun. Who would ever understand. Well, someone in head office saw it and asked a few questions. The painting with the flags as shown stayed as it was. ;-)


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## David Wilcockson (Jul 10, 2005)

Stephen, may I congratulate you on the fantastic painting of the Liberty Ship Blijdendyk that is onboard the Eurodam, nostalgia indeed.


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## Laurie Ridyard (Apr 16, 2014)

How to fold a flag.....


https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10156987533405123&set=p.10156987533405123&type=3&theater

Laurie.


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## Stephen J. Card (Nov 5, 2006)

Thanks David. I like the ARNHEM in the distance. Might be HAL paintings but I always try to slip in a red ensign here and there. ;-)

Hope you enjoyed EURODAM. Fine ship. No doubt. 

Stephen


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## Stephen J. Card (Nov 5, 2006)

Laurie Ridyard said:


> How to fold a flag.....
> 
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10156987533405123&set=p.10156987533405123&type=3&theater
> ...



I didn't expect this one!


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## John Campbell (Aug 30, 2005)

It is now becoming common place, for foreign flagged vessels visiting Scotland, to fly the Saltire instead of the proper"Courtesy" flag which is the Red Ensign.
I was amused to hear a remark from a group of Shetland Mariners ,who were standing on the quayside as a Portuguese cruise liner berthed, that this vessel was flying a Saltire and not the Red Ensign . They said this is Shetland not Scotland and she should be properly flying the Red Ensign anyway.


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## trotterdotpom (Apr 29, 2005)

Funny how the Scots think Shetland is in Scotland but the Shelties don't. A bit like the Scots think that most Australians don't think Scotland is in England.

Hope this doesn't cause a rabid response from the usual quarters but how did Shetland vote in the Eurovision referendum?

John T


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## Mad Landsman (Dec 1, 2005)

trotterdotpom said:


> Funny how the Scots think Shetland is in Scotland but the Shelties don't. A bit like the Scots think that most Australians don't think Scotland is in England.
> 
> Hope this doesn't cause a rabid response from the usual quarters but how did Shetland vote in the Eurovision referendum?
> 
> John T


John:
True, Scotland is not in England - Both countries are part of Britain. 

From the Shetland News.
Out of 12,231 votes cast, 56.5 per cent (6,907) voted to remain, while 43.5 per cent (5,315) voted to leave.

Keep the flag flying (Thumb)

Malcolm.


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## trotterdotpom (Apr 29, 2005)

"True, Scotland is not in England - Both countries are part of Britain."

I know that ML, it's the average blue singleted Aussie in the street I'm talking about. The Jockanese, even the ones who live downunder, can't accept that most Aussies regard everyone from the UK as a "Pom". Only the Scots seem to think that's an insult.

John T


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## hughesy (Dec 18, 2007)

trotterdotpom said:


> "True, Scotland is not in England - Both countries are part of Britain."
> 
> I know that ML, it's the average blue singleted Aussie in the street I'm talking about. The Jockanese, even the ones who live downunder, can't accept that most Aussies regard everyone from the UK as a "Pom". Only the Scots seem to think that's an insult.
> 
> John T


Knew this Aussie chippy from Queensland, one Friday night in the alehouse after work and I quote 'Eh Hughesy never read a book in my life mate" to which I replied believe me Paul this is really apparent, think he went back to Aussie. he was always banging on about the UK how crappy it was and all the "Poms" coming to Aussie,
I told him he should read The Fatal Shore by Peter Hughes, its a big thick book, it would only take someone like him about ten years to read it, then his sentence would be up and he could go back to Ireland, where his people came from?.He had a good sense of humour Paul. Good rugby League player too, not seen him for yonks, 
must be back in Queensland. All the best to him he was a good lad.

all the best Hughesy


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