# Container placement



## caladhmor (Feb 23, 2012)

I've always wondered how crew knew which containers to put where
-Light ones on top
-Heavy on bottom
-flammable up front
and so on ,
What i am asking is , are all the containers but in different sections in port depending on the size ans content or does each ship have its own area for the containers it will be loading ?
(Eat)


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## jamesgpobog (Feb 18, 2012)

caladhmor said:


> I've always wondered how crew knew which containers to put where
> -Light ones on top
> -Heavy on bottom
> -flammable up front
> ...


I'm guessing, I know next to zero about this. My guesses are based on some minuscule knowledge I _think_ I have about how some railroads work here in USA.

What I'm guessing is that there is some sort of scanning/computer program combination. Every container probably has it's own 'packing slip (Bill Of Lading?) that is coded to the container. Then it would be a matter of scanning all containers at a facility and spreadsheeting it out as to which go to what ship when, and which get loaded in what order.

But it's just a guess...


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## Andrew Craig-Bennett (Mar 13, 2007)

Container terminals are very dependent on IT...


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## Duncan112 (Dec 28, 2006)

When the Southampton container terminal was first commissioned the port staff had spent several weeks playing with matchboxes and dinky toys to decide on the best arrangement for the containers, and it all relied on the strad carrier drivers being able to read the container number - come opening day and it snowed rendering the numbers illegible!! (all pre pc and lap top days).

Thinking of snow, strad carriers don't handle very well in it - I remember seeing one end up in the dock in Hamburg due to skidding!!


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## John Cassels (Sep 29, 2005)

Unfortunatly , ships personnel have little to do with the pre-stow .

Containers arriving on a terminal -export and import are terminal stowed for
port of discharge/ method of onward transport , weight , commodity(block
stow) , underdeck/on deck, imco class etc , etc.


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## caladhmor (Feb 23, 2012)

Are the crew of the ships then given information on which container is where ?


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## Derek Roger (Feb 19, 2005)

caladhmor said:


> Are the crew of the ships then given information on which container is where ?


They would have too caladhnor otherwise they would not be able to determine the vessels stowage plan and calculate the stability / GM.


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## Klaatu83 (Jan 22, 2009)

Nowadays, the pre-stow plan is generally worked out by shore-based office personnel before the ship arrives in port. There simply isn't time for the ships' officers to do it. However, although the ships' officers usually only get the pre-stow on arrival, they are still responsible to check it for mistakes, and are held fully responsible for anything in the stowage or the manifest that isn't correct. 

You don't necessarily want to place all the heavy containers on the bottom and all the light ones on top. That can result in excessive GM (too much stability), which can cause the ship to snap-roll, leading to damaged cargo, or even the loss of entire containers overboard.

There are very strict regulations regarding the placement of dangerous cargoes. Some containers are required to be stowed on deck, away from the crew's quarters, or separated from each other. Failure to comply with those regulations can result in fines against the ship. 

Ships are provided with a stow plan, and an officer is always on deck observing loading and unloading. However, since there are usually multiple cranes working simultaneously at different hatches, sometimes as many as five at once, from a practical standpoint it is usually impossible for the officer to keep track of all the cargo that is moving on and off the ship. Although there is a "checker" posted at each hatch, he works for the stevedore, rather than for the ship, and does not necessarily look out for the interests of the ship, especially if cargo becomes damaged during loading or unloading. Usually, the best that can be accomplished by the ship's officer is to ensure that the hatches are properly closed and secured, that all the refrigerated containers are plugged in and running at the designated temperature, and that the container lashings are properly secured, prior to sailing.


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## Andrew Craig-Bennett (Mar 13, 2007)

Klaatu's description is perfect. 

The terminal planners have at least a second mate's certificate, but this is so that they understand what is to be done and why - it does not make them responsible for the safety of ship and cargo.


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## Varley (Oct 1, 2006)

Has anyone mentoned one favourite shoreside 'trick'? Quite often refridgerated containers - left on diesel in the park - were moved onboard as operational.

It was far from unusual to have to continue on diesel until the electrical faults had been fixed!


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## Michal-S (Nov 30, 2010)

Stowage planning is mostly done on shore, nowadays, though I had a chance to work in some charters-during my time as chief mate-when I was doing it relying on, mostly, scant and continuously changing information from charterers or agents. To execute proper distribution planners or supercargoes doing the job are provided with ship's loading data by charterer (there are specific forms of questionnaires presented to ship or ship-owner usually at the beginning or just before beginning of charter period asking for all details concerning stowage of different sizes of containers, limitations related to hatch-covers opening sequence, cranes positioning, hanging containers cells where it is necessary to find 20' container to be able to load another 40' on top without loosing slots etc. Questionnaire always asks for dangerous cargo carriage possibility and reefer connections.
Where to find all these informations? As for general stowage: stability booklet, capacity plan and cargo securing manual and, for dangerous cargo distribution, annex to the Certificate of Compliance for Carrying Dangerous Cargoes.
Generally-one must know his ship, it makes job easier.


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## caladhmor (Feb 23, 2012)

Would it be possible for container ships to have all there top containers level instead of high in places and low in others ?
Surely this would be an advantage as less wind would catch it ? ?


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## Michal-S (Nov 30, 2010)

caladhmor said:


> Would it be possible for container ships to have all there top containers level instead of high in places and low in others ?
> Surely this would be an advantage as less wind would catch it ? ?


Theoretically-yes, but stowage of containers is determined by sequence of ports and terminals on the way. It is nearly impossible to find container vessel that would have one port of loading and one for discharging. Sometimes it can be 10 ports, either way, with cargo operations going in-and-out in each of them. Each container move costs hundreds of dollars, so it will be a priority to avoid re-stows digging for obstructed cargo below. That is why we have to live with all those "Manhattan-views" on decks.


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## LaFlamme (Feb 1, 2011)

This thread is very interesting (as many are - I love this site). Totally ignorant of container ships and the work involved in loading/unloading these large ships, I am finally learning the basics and it gives me a better understanding: it is not at all as simple as I imagined it.

Wasn't there a related thread recently, that discussed the stability of container ships? That was also very instructive. I am continually impressed by the ***ulative knowledge of this group. And humor !!


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## Wallace Slough (Mar 21, 2009)

My brother-in-law was master with Sealand and subsequently Maersk-Sealand for many years. As noted by Klaatu, the stowage plan is completed ashore, and the ship receives a copy upon sailing. He relayed to me an experience wherein he'd sailed from a port in the far east (I believe Keelung) and prior to debarking the pilot, found the vessel to very unstable. The ship had a negative GM, and would heel over to either side and lay there until a sea would push her over to the other side as I recall him telling me. In any case, he turned the ship around and brought her back into port where the ship had to have the cargo discharged and restowed; a very expensive operation. It was found that when loading in mainland China, the stowage plan had not been followed by the longshoremen and the ship had not been loaded according to the plan. In any case, he was in hot water with the management in the US for bringing the ship back into port, but was completely backed up by the senior management in Denmark for his decision. He obviously made the correct decision in my mind, and it was remarkable that middle management in the US questioned his decision before being backed up by senior management abroad. It sounds like a case of a bean counter trying to manage a ship.


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## James_C (Feb 17, 2005)

I was on a course a couple of years ago with a few lads sailing on Maersk container ships, and the subject of cargo stowage/declared weights etc came up during one 'smoko'.
These chaps from Maersk (sailing on their larger ships) told me that after they've uploaded all the cargo information into the stability computer, there's always a larger difference between calculated vs actual drafts with the latter being deeper than the former, usually over 1m, at times even 2 metres. 
For a large container ship, that's many thousands of tonnes of improperly declared cargo weights in unknown locations onboard - with obvious potential implications for stability.
Although it must be said it's not surprising, bearing in mind just how many containers the modern day behemoths carry.


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## Klaatu83 (Jan 22, 2009)

Varley said:


> Has anyone mentoned one favourite shoreside 'trick'? Quite often refridgerated containers - left on diesel in the park - were moved onboard as operational.
> 
> It was far from unusual to have to continue on diesel until the electrical faults had been fixed!


When I was in the Med we dealt with quite a few reefers powered by diesel engines. A favorite trick of the shoreside people, particularly in Egypt, was to syphon out most of the fuel prior to loading. The engine would soon run out of fuel, and then it would be up to the ship's personnel to replenish the tanks. 

Another of the problems encountered with reefers was that, since they are carried on deck, they are usually among the last containers to be loaded on board. As a result, the longshoremen are often just at the point of finishing up, and preparing to leave, by the time the ship's electrician gets a chance to plug them in and find out whether they are working properly. It often seemed as if the shoreside people deliberately held the bad ones until just before sailing time, and sometimes we had a difficult time catching the bad ones in time, and getting the shoreside people to fix or remove them before the ship sailed. If the ship gets stuck with a bad reefer then the condition of the cargo inside becomes the ship's responsibility, and it is up to the crew to fix it.


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## jamesgpobog (Feb 18, 2012)

> It sounds like a case of a bean counter trying to manage a ship.


 Oh hell yes. We are _*very*_ good at that. I completely loathe those smarmy little rat-faced bureaucratic weasels.


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