# Female RN Officer closed black out curtains on the bridge



## sternchallis (Nov 15, 2015)

*A Royal Navy warship nearly crashed into a fishing boat - after the officer on look-out closed the curtains and couldn't see where she was going.*
Lieutenant Rebecca Stanley shut a ‘blackout curtain’ so she could get on with other work during the night shift ( perhaps a bit of dhobying and ironing) on type 23 frigate HMS Sutherland, a court martial heard.
Lt Stanley even told a surprised colleague on the ship’s bridge that if anyone asked ‘she wasn't behind the curtain’.
The court heard that as she couldn't see outside, the frigate was being operated by an officer who could not keep a visual look out and had ‘an extremely limited picture’ of where other vessels were . And they want equality, well rig the grating and break out the 'Cat o' Nine Tails'.
Its becoming too much like the USN.


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## Stephen J. Card (Nov 5, 2006)

*A Royal Navy officer has been fined £4,000 after a warship narrowly avoided crashing into a fishing boat.*
Lt Rebecca Stanley, 31, admitted to negligently hazarding a ship while aboard Plymouth-based HMS Sutherland in the North Sea on 5 June last year.
Bulford Court in Wiltshire heard how Lt Stanley had shut the blackout curtains to complete other work while in charge of the ship's look-out.
Assistant Judge Alan Large told her she would be "severely reprimanded".
Lt Stanley was supposed to be in charge of the ship's lookout between 01:00 and 04:00 BST during her night-shift.
Instead she decided to prepare for a manoeuvre she had no experience of, away from her duties.
The court heard how Lt Stanley told a colleague that if anyone asked "she wasn't behind the curtain".
*'Wrong and foolish'*
At the time the frigate was being operated by an officer who could not keep a visual look out and had "an extremely limited picture" of where other vessels were, the court was told.
As a result, the 4,000 tonne warship came within just 600 yards (548 metres) of a 118ft (36 metre) long Dutch fishing boat, which had to change direction at the last minute.
Prosecuting, Lt Solomon Hartley told the court: "She thought she had it all under control.
"She didn't have things under control and had things turned out differently she could have collided with the Jan Cornelis."
Defending, Commander Kay Chadwick said Stanley had not been "sleeping or using her phone".
Lt Stanley told the court: : "It was wrong and foolish of me to put the ship in that situation… I let myself and the ship's company down".
"Words cannot justify how sorry I am for the damage I almost caused."



How many people on the bridge at night? Two? Five? Ten? Only OOW? Where were the lookouts, radar people, juniors etc?


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## trotterdotpom (Apr 29, 2005)

On the bright side nothing happened, what a bunch of dibber dobbers they must be in the navy. Couldn't they have told her off and put her on coffee cup washing for a few weeks?

John T


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## YM-Mundrabilla (Mar 29, 2008)

Thought better of it ................... ?


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## Mad Landsman (Dec 1, 2005)

One is supposed to disregard the gender of the Officer, they are 'all equal' nowadays.
So, just the Officer of the watch then. This OOW was the only person responsible for keeping a look out? What happened to delegation and initiative? Was everyone else present of the 'point and shoot' character, do as ordered and nothing more? Or were they capable of a degree of cunning in order to set her up? 

I can see her problem to some extent. In times past a junior officer, having been warned that he, or she, would be responsible for a manoeuvre or evolution would be running it through their head and verbally discussing it. Now they are apparently required to formulate a written action plan with all the associated gubbins that goes with it, using probably a tablet computer which would be a distraction in itself.


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## sternchallis (Nov 15, 2015)

Yes Stephen, I always thought RN ships were top heavy with bridge watchkeepers causing a stability problem.
Your average Scouse seaman lookout would have spotted the lights of a fishing boat and reported it to 2/O, getting a brownie point.
Whilst involved with Ship and Port security plans for MN ships post 911, an RN type wrote the boilerplate for the plans and he even put in about the 'radar operator' in port (who was he kidding), so who was looking after radar at sea in that instance, did he not flag it up to the loot, then you would have had Jnr officers on watch with her, didn't they see it. What happened to all this 'team' stuff they are always talking about.


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## Varley (Oct 1, 2006)

I was wondering along the same lines as Malcolm. When the old man went "behind the curtain" in the strait of Messina leaving me to cover I was not by myself. A lookout (at least) on the wing and the helmsman (he would not have been out of earshot to a loud call being in the crapper, two doors, same level).


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## Stephen J. Card (Nov 5, 2006)

Where was the ship at that incident? Not in the middle of the South Atlantic or even the North Sea... the ship was right at the start of traffic scheme approaching Straits of English Channel!


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## Big Budgie (Mar 30, 2012)

YM-Mundrabilla said:


> Thought better of it ................... ?


Probably for the best!


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## john24601 (Nov 18, 2008)

As in all court cases unless you were there at the hearing and heard all the facts then you are not in a position to make credible comments. The press always pick & choose what facts to report so that the story can be made more sensational.


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## Mad Landsman (Dec 1, 2005)

#10
Quite true, which is why the comments on this forum are mainly couched as speculation or questioning those parts which are not reported.


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## sparks69 (Dec 18, 2005)

Is there not more than one person on a bridge watch ?
There was in my day.


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## Stephen J. Card (Nov 5, 2006)

sparks69 said:


> Is there not more than one person on a bridge watch ?
> There was in my day.



Depends if the sails had to be set or furled.  

I fairly certain there would be several people on bridge of a warship. The problem in this case the OOW was the senior watchkeeper.

Stephen


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## trotterdotpom (Apr 29, 2005)

I recall stepping out onto the bridge for a *** one afternoon in mid-Atlantic. The 2nd Mate was engrossed in chart corrections. I looked out of the window and there was a big ship which appeared to be heading straight towards us. I thought about saying "Have you seen this ship?" but opted for a tactful "Where do you think this ship has come from?" The 2nd Mate looked up saying: "What sh ... aaaaaaaargh!" He ran round the chart table and swiftly put us into an emergency U turn. Phew! Missed it by that much. The other ship sailed blissfully on. And I never told a soul.

John T


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## Mad Landsman (Dec 1, 2005)

Or,
That's an odd pronunciation, the p in ship sounded just like a t.


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## Stephen J. Card (Nov 5, 2006)

trotterdotpom said:


> I recall stepping out onto the bridge for a *** one afternoon in mid-Atlantic. The 2nd Mate was engrossed in chart corrections. I looked out of the window and there was a big ship which appeared to be heading straight towards us. I thought about saying "Have you seen this ship?" but opted for a tactful "Where do you think this ship has come from?" The 2nd Mate looked up saying: "What sh ... aaaaaaaargh!" He ran round the chart table and swiftly put us into an emergency U turn. Phew! Missed it by that much. The other ship sailed blissfully on. And I never told a soul.
> 
> John T



Just a coincidence that the 2nd Mate on the other ship was making chart corrections as well.


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## sternchallis (Nov 15, 2015)

Well spotted Stephen. Being the 12/4 pm watch, everybody was doing deckhead surveys and didn't feel the alteration of course, OM included.
Must have been a freak wave, the manouvre.


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## John Cassels (Sep 29, 2005)

trotterdotpom said:


> I recall stepping out onto the bridge for a *** one afternoon in mid-Atlantic. The 2nd Mate was engrossed in chart corrections. I looked out of the window and there was a big ship which appeared to be heading straight towards us. I thought about saying "Have you seen this ship?" but opted for a tactful "Where do you think this ship has come from?" The 2nd Mate looked up saying: "What sh ... aaaaaaaargh!" He ran round the chart table and swiftly put us into an emergency U turn. Phew! Missed it by that much. The other ship sailed blissfully on. And I never told a soul.
> 
> John T


Now why would you have wanted to tell anyone ?.


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## trotterdotpom (Apr 29, 2005)

John Cassels said:


> Now why would you have wanted to tell anyone ?.


I didn't. That's why I wondered why some clipe on that navy ship dobbed in the OOW. We're all God's children.

John T


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## Mad Landsman (Dec 1, 2005)

There is always that to consider John, as I alluded in #5. 
One can wonder at what point the bridge team noticed a problem looming, how long did they wait until mentioning it, timing might have been the key. 
Until someone writes their memoirs we will never know what the 'team' relationship might have been.


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## sternchallis (Nov 15, 2015)

Perhaps they didn't like the idea of a female officer and one that was not doing her job correctly.
Don't they have a cabin full of radar and stuff with a responsible officer in charge?


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## Varley (Oct 1, 2006)

The young are better at 'inclusiveness' (although I am not sure how much of it is down to the social engineering of a short lived product). Is the demographic of RN seastaff of an age where inclusiveness is not just an aspiration to be lip served but genuine(ish).


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## sternchallis (Nov 15, 2015)

Pardon!


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## Varley (Oct 1, 2006)

Not really a convincing 'pardon!' to one who had his young lady ETO manoeuvred out when her usefulness as a presentable face in passenger accommodation ran out of passenger ship in which her continuing presentability ceased to be a lever.

(An episode where I was distinguished only by my silent acquiescence).

The morning brings me the realisation that last night's (above) is unintentionally disingenuous. My interests lay in the provision and support of technically competent 'servants'. If society requires that their employment must be also contingent on the demographic being balanced by other attributes unrelated to the primary task then don't expect me to engage (especially when there are plenty of those wishing to engage against).


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## trotterdotpom (Apr 29, 2005)

Mad Landsman said:


> There is always that to consider John, as I alluded in #5.
> One can wonder at what point the bridge team noticed a problem looming, how long did they wait until mentioning it, timing might have been the key.
> Until someone writes their memoirs we will never know what the 'team' relationship might have been.


I'd forgotten about the cast of thousands that they have on navy ships. How come the whole lot of them weren't in the cart? You'd think at least one of them would have said: "Ahem, there's a fishing boat out here." The idea of a board meeting to discuss a change of course is interesting too."

John T


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## phdad (Sep 5, 2019)

Stephen J. Card said:


> *A Royal Navy officer has been fined £4,000 after a warship narrowly avoided crashing into a fishing boat.*
> Lt Rebecca Stanley, 31, admitted to negligently hazarding a ship while aboard Plymouth-based HMS Sutherland in the North Sea on 5 June last year.
> Bulford Court in Wiltshire heard how Lt Stanley had shut the blackout curtains to complete other work while in charge of the ship's look-out.
> Assistant Judge Alan Large told her she would be "severely reprimanded".
> ...


Usually at least two officers on watch on the bridge after sundown. Funny, I would have thought that after the RN gave up their liquior allotments they could afford more watch officers. Well anyway they still have seamen (almost forgot) sailors.?


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## pedormont (Dec 6, 2013)

sternchallis said:


> *A Royal Navy warship nearly crashed into a fishing boat - after the officer on look-out closed the curtains and couldn't see where she was going.*
> Lieutenant Rebecca Stanley shut a ‘blackout curtain’ so she could get on with other work during the night shift ( perhaps a bit of dhobying and ironing) on type 23 frigate HMS Sutherland, a court martial heard.
> Lt Stanley even told a surprised colleague on the ship’s bridge that if anyone asked ‘she wasn't behind the curtain’.
> The court heard that as she couldn't see outside, the frigate was being operated by an officer who could not keep a visual look out and had ‘an extremely limited picture’ of where other vessels were . And they want equality, well rig the grating and break out the 'Cat o' Nine Tails'.
> Its becoming too much like the USN.


That could be squared away in no time if the USN would break out the rum tots and the Royal Navy sober up. Down the hatch!


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## gordonarfur (May 27, 2018)

she was probably fixing her hair or checking her make up ? far more important than looking out for other ships. The other question what is the range of the ships radar? as I recall it was 5 miles ranging out to 40 plus miles the occasional peep would have alerted her surely..


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## Steve Hodges (Feb 12, 2007)

Are merchant ships required to officially record " near miss" incidents as civil aircraft are? I ask because this thread brought to mind an incident on a steam turbine VLCC back in the 70's; I was 3/E and the ship was running with unmanned engine room, either Indian Ocean or Persian Gulf. I was duty engineer with alarms switched to my cabin, and I got called from my scratcher around 5am by the flashing red LED's ( the rat's eyes ) and the penetrating squeaker. Leapt out, donned boily and boots, and scampered down to the control room. All hell had broken loose, the turbines had tripped on low vacuum, boilers shutting down on high pressure, God knows what else. I don't know why I didn't press the general engineers alarm, and because I had answered the original alarm in time it didn't wake the C/E. We had been running the condenser on "scoop" circulation, and I could see that the vacuum was actually recovering by itself, so I was able to reset everything and get the show back on the road by myself from the control room. I phoned the bridge and told them we were back underway, logged everything , left things on UMS and went topsides. There I saw from the wake that we had damn near done a 90 degree turn and there was another ship on our beam. The sudden turn had reduced the flow through the condenser scoop causing everything to trip. I went and phoned the Mate on the bridge to ask what had happened , but I just got blanked, he was clearly not going to admit to me that anything untoward had happened. I didn't pursue it - it was all in the E/R log anyway and all the engineers knew - but I often wondered if the Old Man was ever told. Maybe he was, and just decided to draw a veil over it - no harm done, no unnecessary report to make to the company. But I would be interested to know, are ships legally required to report "near misses"?


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## Varley (Oct 1, 2006)

If that was an unplanned manoeuvre necessary to avoid a collision then I think 'yes'. Try MGN 564 - I don't think all the IMO incidents are included except in as much as they are dangerous but I cannot access an IMO/SOLAS description at the moment.


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## John Cassels (Sep 29, 2005)

Steve , can you remember which side was the other ship on when you saw it ?.


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## Steve Hodges (Feb 12, 2007)

John Cassels said:


> Steve , can you remember which side was the other ship on when you saw it ?.


Sorry John, I could not. It was forty-odd years ago, and nowadays I have trouble remembering what I had for breakfast. I just recall the other vessel as being much closer than I had seen one before while full away on passage. I'm quite sure that there was no whistle signal from our vessel though, or everybody would have been out of bed. Reflecting on the incident though, she was built in 73-74 and very well equipped, so would she have had some sort of helm movement recorder on the bridge? We certainly had full alarm printout in the ER. The thing that I remember most is that nobody seemed to want to talk about it, which made me suspect that we might have been partly in the wrong. I'll never know now, that's for sure.


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## Varley (Oct 1, 2006)

My turn to be the anorak.

Why did the main circ not cut in automatically when the scoop flow fell too low (requirement for UMS steamer, surely). I would almost have expected a blackout due insufficient spinning reserve rather than an almost graceful failure (or turned graceful by your intervention).


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## Steve Hodges (Feb 12, 2007)

Varley said:


> My turn to be the anorak.
> 
> Why did the main circ not cut in automatically when the scoop flow fell too low (requirement for UMS steamer, surely). I would almost have expected a blackout due insufficient spinning reserve rather than an almost graceful failure (or turned graceful by your intervention).


A good question. I haven't been thinking about it for 13 days , though, just haven' t been online. I think it is quite possible that the main circ did start up, (no chance now of remembering the full details), but the dip in the vacuum was enough to trip. As I said before , what I remember most clearly is that no one topsides seemed to want to talk about the evasive action.


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