# Seamans Discharge Book



## FREEBEE

When was the first Seamans Discharge Book/ and I.D. Book issued, and who now keeps the record of the old applications? Is it possible to access this information?
Regards
Freebee


----------



## Billy1963

Hello Freebee,

All depends on what years you are looking at. There are no copies of actual Discharge Books, but records known as CRS10 service files detail the same information found within a Discharge Book.

MERCHANT NAVY SEAMAN'S SEA SERVICE RECORDS 

1999 - 2002 Sea Service Records 

The MCA at Cardiff is able to provide details of a merchant seaman's service for the above years. This information is taken from the ships official logbooks and crew agreements on which the seaman sailed. There is a charge of £11.00 per logbook to extract this information, the details of which are then included on a Certificate of Sea Service in respect of the seaman. Further charges are made for additional information and these are listed below. 


1973 to 1999 Sea Service Records 

This MCA at Cardiff is not able to supply information concerning the sea service details of individual Merchant Seamen from 1973 to 1999. After 1973 the Registrar General was not required by legislation to keep these records. 

1941 to 1972 Fifth Register of Merchant Seaman's Service 

These records are held at The National Archives in classification BT 382. The Fifth Register of Seaman’s Service 1941 to 1972. 

Records of individual Merchant Seamen's sea service details are held in alphabetical surname order. These details include the following information: Name of seaman, Date and place of birth, Discharge (Seaman’s) book number, Rank, Details of the ships on which he served. These include: 

Name of ship and official number, date of engagement (Joining ship), Date of discharge (Leaving ship), whether ship was a foreign going of home trade vessel, and records in some cases National Insurance contributions. Details shown in these records are similar to those contained in an individual seaman's discharge book. 

1913 to 1940 Fourth Register of Merchant Seaman's service. (Please note these records actually start from 1919 as all WWI records were destroyed) 

These records are available at The National Archives and are held on Microfiche in the following classifications BT 348: Register of Seamen, Central Index, Numerical Series (CR 2), BT 349: Register of Seamen, Central Index, Alphabetical Series (CR 1) and BT 350: Register of Seamen, Special Index, Alphabetical Series (CR 10). These three classes were combined in one classification namely BT 364 Register of Seaman, Combined Numerical Index (CR1, CR 2 & CR 10) and were made up by extracting combinations of cards from the other three classes. 

The original records for the above named classifications are now held at the following address: Southampton Archives, Southampton City Council, South Block, Civic Centre, Southampton, S014 7LY. This office is open Tuesdays to Fridays 9.30am to 4.30pm, with one late evening opening each month. There is no charge for a personal visit. Alternatively enquiries for information from the records may be made by post, e-mail or fax but there will be a charge for this.

1854 - 1856 Third Register of Merchant Seaman's service 

This register of Merchant Seamen service was opened in 1854. This was arranged in alphabetical order and contained the following details of seaman: age, place of birth, details of voyage, including name of ship and port of departure. In 1856 it was considered that the obligation to maintain a register of seaman was satisfied by the crew list and the register was closed. 

The records of this are held at The National Archives in the following classification BT 116: Register of Seamen: Series 111. 

1845 - 1854 Second Register of Merchant Seaman's Service 

The Merchant Shipping Act 1844 stipulated that every British seaman should have a register ticket. The details given when applying for a ticket were: Name, Date and place of birth, Date and capacity of first going to sea, Capacity since: any Royal Navy ship served in, and capacity; Present employment at sea, home address. 

These records are held at The National Archives under the following classifications: BT 113: Registers of Seaman's Tickets. (1845-1853), in Certificate number order. BT 114: Alphabetical Index to registers of Seaman’s Tickets. BT 115: Alphabetical Register of Masters Tickets. 

1835 to 1844 First Register of Merchant Seaman's service 

The registration of seamen was introduced by the Merchant Shipping Act 1835. These records are held at the Public Records Office under the following classifications: BT 120: Register of Seamen Series 1. (1835-1836). These records are arranged alphabetically. BT 112: Register of Seamen: Series 11 (1835-1844). BT 119 Alphabetical Index to Seamen. This index provides the registration number of the seaman.


----------



## FREEBEE

Hello Billy,
Many thanks for a very comprehensive reply. I am tracing details of my Gt Gt Grandfather who was a master mariner and was at sea from 1846 to 1874, and other members of the family who was at sea in more recent years.
The next question is when was the first photograph ID used?
Regards
Freebee


----------



## R58484956

Billie, Once again you are an encyclopedia of knowledge for which many of us have been thankful.


----------



## Roger Griffiths

FREEBEE said:


> Hello Billy,
> Many thanks for a very comprehensive reply. I am tracing details of my Gt Gt Grandfather who was a master mariner and was at sea from 1846 to 1874, and other members of the family who was at sea in more recent years.
> *The next question is when was the first photograph ID used?
> Regards
> Freebee*


*


From 1918 to 1921 a special index was included in the Fourth Register of Merchant Seamen. It would seem that there was some concern as to the situation in Ireland and the powers thatbe, felt there was a need for an improved ID system for merchant seamen. This resulted in CR10 cards indexed alphabetically. Apart from sea service they would include place and date of birth and rank, or rating. They would also describe physical appearance, I.E. 5ft 10 inchs, blond hair, blue eyes etc, a mugshot photograph and maybe Trade union and medical insurance.
Photographs ceased after 1921 untill the Fifth register of merchant seamen in 1941.
See examples here
http://www.irishmariners.ie/photo-gallery.php


Roger*


----------



## FREEBEE

Hi Roger,
Many thanks for the ID photo info. Do you know if there is a British Mariners list similar to the Irish one that can be viewed online?
Regards
Freebee


----------



## Roger Griffiths

FREEBEE said:


> Hi Roger,
> Many thanks for the ID photo info. Do you know if there is a British Mariners list similar to the Irish one that can be viewed online?
> Regards
> Freebee


Simple answer----No

If you had told Billy your GGrandfather was a master mariner, I guess he would have given you different information as officers records are classified differently.
If you could post your GGrandfathers full name, date and place of birth, we may be able to give you help in finding his seagoing records.


regards
Roger


----------



## Hank

Just to add a bit to what has already been written: the Discharge Book came in to use in the early 20th century. My grandfather got his (no. 89012) in Feb 1901. Before then the seamen got a loose paper discharge certificate.
The earliest use of photographs that I have was on the CR10.
The link below you will take you to a webpage where you can see pictures of an old discharge book, an 1892 discharge certificate and a CR10, amongst other things.
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/chinaboats/docs.html
Cheers, John


----------



## FREEBEE

Hi Roger and John,
Many thanks for the additional info. I already have my Gt Grandfathers sea going records which I got from the Guildhall Library, in London and Greenwich. It is that we are short on Photo`s of some of my other sea going relatives, hence the query as to when photo`s was used for the I.D. Book and Discharge Book.
Regards Freebee


----------



## krebsy

i'd like to view my discharge book please no R538888


----------



## Roger Griffiths

The easiest way to view your MN service records 1946-1972 is to look at your form CRS 10. This will be stored at the National Archives at Kew in piece BT382/2561
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/...ails.asp?CATID=8125865&CATLN=6&accessmethod=5
These are records of individual Merchant Seamen's sea service details are held in alphabetical surname order. These details include the following information: Name of seaman, Date and place of birth, Discharge (Seaman’s) book number, Rank, Details of the ships on which he served. These include: 
Name of ship and official number, date of engagement (Joining ship), Date of discharge (Leaving ship), whether ship was a foreign going of home trade vessel, and records in some cases National Insurance contributions. Details shown in these records are similar to those contained in an individual seaman's discharge book.
There are no records of Service between 1972 and 1999
Also you have a Seamans "Pouch" in the piece BT372/1367/141
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/...79031&CATLN=7&Highlight=,KREBS&accessmethod=0
The contents of "Pouchs" vary from single registry cards
to ID Cards, photographs, letters, applications forms and other ephemera. 
You cannot see any of these records online. Best bet is to visit Kew yourself and view for free. If not you would need to employ a researcher or use TNA's research service.

Roger


----------



## LucyKnight

Discharge book records
Is there any way of viewing discharge book records of merchant navy officers , discharge book and seaman's books no's etc after 1972 available now, or proof that you were signed on on ship's articles easily availablle.


----------



## Hugh MacLean

From 1972 - 1999 the answer is no. The MCA at Cardiff can give information but only after 1999. 
Regards
Hugh


----------



## LucyKnight

*discharge book records*



Hugh MacLean said:


> From 1972 - 1999 the answer is no. The MCA at Cardiff can give information but only after 1999.
> Regards
> Hugh


Thanks for that info Hugh. Regarding ships articles after 1972, can one obtain proof of being on ships that way.


----------



## Hugh MacLean

Hi Lucy,
Between the dates of 1972 until 1999 the MCA were not required by legislation to keep these records so you wont find details there or at the National Archives. For details of service after 1999 you should contact the MCA at Cardiff.

Regards
Hugh


----------



## Jacko123

Oddly enough I received yesterday my grandfather's discharge books from my mother. The first ships are HMS Eaglet August 1919 and RFA Petrobus September 1919. They go right up to Ramore Head December 1955. My first Ship was Ramore Head 1958. Also sailed on several of his ships, RM Deseado. Raeburn (called Canadian Star when I sailed on her) and the RM Durango. Takes you back a bit. RIP Tommy


----------



## clang777

*Canadian Merchant Navy CDC or Ship Logs*

I'm producing a do***entary film about a man who worked in the Canadian Merchant Navy and the Canadian Army during WWII. The vessel was the "Walter B. Reynolds" owned by Hall Corp. Any ideas on how I could find the shipping logs (1942 - 45) and CDC details of fireman Roger Morneau?


----------



## knighta

clang777 said:


> I'm producing a do***entary film about a man who worked in the Canadian Merchant Navy and the Canadian Army during WWII. The vessel was the "Walter B. Reynolds" owned by Hall Corp. Any ideas on how I could find the shipping logs (1942 - 45) and CDC details of fireman Roger Morneau?


Try the Department of Veteran's Affairs in Charlottetown PEI. When Canadian merchant seamen were declared to be veterans circa 1998, many of the Transport Canada Marine Safety offices sent their Shipping Master's Signing-On books to Veterans Affairs, as they were being inundated with requests for WW2 info from men who had long ago lost their Discharge Books.


----------



## 12548

*Crs10*

Just a query as to why there may not be a CRS10 Record held on ones Service.but there is a Seamans Pouch!
Is this perhaps because of the time served ?
Thank You


----------



## Hugh MacLean

joller6 said:


> Just a query as to why there may not be a CRS10 Record held on ones Service.but there is a Seamans Pouch!
> Is this perhaps because of the time served ?
> Thank You


CRS 10 docket books were introduced in January 1941 (Fifth Register of Seamen 1941 - 1972).

There could be a few reasons why there is no CRS 10, starting with the fact that the seaman's service may have been prior to Jan 1941. These records are held in the Fourth Register of Seamen and there will be no CRS 10. 

If he did serve beyond 1941, there should be a record if you are looking in the right place, but you also have to accept that the record could have been lost, misfiled or destroyed.

Regards
Hugh


----------



## 12548

Thank you ,however I received an Email from the National Archieves saying that there was no CRS10 for me.(Well actual words were "We cannot locate any CRS10 Record for this person) My service was after the date you mention
Appreciate the reply though.


----------



## Hugh MacLean

Two things come to mind.

Who did you get to look for you, was it the National Archives or a researcher?
I have tried to get files from Kew in the past and was told there were none or they were incomplete and later had a reliable person check for me and turn up the goods.

The second point would be to do with your surname which can also be a bit of a mare when pulling the correct file from Kew. I suspect I know you and the file could be getting mixed up in the Mac/Mc at Kew - am I correct?

Regards
Hugh


----------



## 12548

Hi Hugh
Yes you do know me LOL 
Yes there is that possibility about the Surname mix up as you say,and I just had the NA do that search for me.
I think that in time I will be able to get to the NA and do my own checking,just a matter of time. 
This is all just curiosity on my part as I have said in the other site I have my Papers and Photo from my Seamans Pouch ,but am just curious as to why there may not be a CRS10 ??
Thanks Hugh! Clever Lad you are! LOL


----------

