# information for Blue Funnel Vessel "Menelaus"



## Nairny (Jul 23, 2019)

Hello
My Father was a young cadet on the Blue Funnel Vessel "Menelaus" 
It left Great Britain 1955 .
He is turning 90 this year and I wanted to gather any information about the trip that I could compile into a gift for him

Any advise on what I can gather in terms of records or photos and how to go about it. We are based in Australia
His name is John Nairn 

Thanks 
Nick


----------



## BillH (Oct 10, 2007)

Nick, is the date 1955 correct? His age does not sit right if a young cadet in 1955. Also there was not a vessel of that name in the fleet (1952 - 1957)

I am presuming you perhaps meant 1935 which would be this one

MENELAUS (3rd) (1923 - 1952) Calchas class steel steamship.
O.N. 147235. 10,307g. 6,319n. 495.5 x 62.3 x 39.6 feet.
Four steam turbines by the North Eastern Marine Engineering Company Ltd., Newcastle, reduction geared to twin propeller shafts. 6,500 SHP. 14½ kts.
1.5.1923: Launched by the Caledon Shipbuilding & Engineering Company Ltd., Dundee (Yard No. 274), for the Ocean Steamship Company Ltd. 
1923: Completed. 
25.12.1940: Whilst in convoy WS5A, enroute to the Mediterranean was attacked 700 miles west of Cape Finisterre by the German battleship ADMIRAL HIPPER but was rescued by convoy escorts HMS’s BERWICK and BONAVENTURE. 
1.5.1942: Attacked by the German commerce raider MICHEL, in a position 700 miles S.W.of St. Helena, but escaped at speed. 
1952: Sold to the British Iron & Steel Corporation, and allocated to W.H. Arnott, Young Ltd., for demolition at Dalmuir. 
25.6.1952: Delivered.

Photo in gallery - use link below

https://www.shipsnostalgia.com/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/273087/title/s-smenelaus/cat/510

Below is the details of the vessel built in 1957.

MENELAUS (4th) “M” class steel motorship.
O.N. 187169. 7,869g. 4,566n. 494' 8" x 65' 4" x 28' 10¼ " oa
6-cyl. 2 S.C.S. A. (750 x 1500mm) B&W type by Harland & Wolff Ltd., Belfast. 8,000 BHP. 16½ kts.
15.3.1957: Launched without ceremony (due to a shipyard industrial dispute) by the Caledon Shipbuilding & Engineering Company Ltd., Dundee (Yard No. 509), for the Ocean Steamship Company Ltd. 
9.1957: Completed. 
1972: Transferred to Elder Dempster Lines Ltd., and renamed MANO. 
8.1977: Renamed OTI. 
12.5.1978: Sold for £176,000 to Leon Rivera Lines Company Ltd., (Thenamaris Maritime Inc., Greece, managers), Cyprus, and renamed ELSTAR. 
21.2.1979: Delivered to Dong Kuk Steel Company, for demolition at Busan.

Photo in gallery - use link below

https://www.shipsnostalgia.com/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/260748/title/menelaus/cat/510


----------



## Pat Kennedy (Apr 14, 2007)

Nick, 
As Bill said, there is something wrong with the dates you stated. If your Dad is 90, then presuming his cadetship started at age 16, that would put the date of his first ship as around 1945.
That fits with Menelaus (III), launched in 1923 at Caledon shipyard in Dundee. 
She had an adventurous war, as Bill has detailed above.

I would suggest you get your Dad a copy of _Ships in Focus, Blue Funnel Line_, available on Amazon. It is a handsome hardback book with photographs of virtually every Blue Funnel ship from _AGAMEMNON_ in 1866 to _BARBER PRIAM _in 1977.
_MENELAUS_ features on page 73.


Also, Merchant Fleets 6, Blue Funnel Line by Duncan Haws has a splendid line drawing of the ship and details of her build and history.
This is also available on Amazon.
Both these books will, I'm sure bring back some long ago memories for your Dad.

Best regards, 
Pat.
PS, I was in the later Menelaus, in 1959, 1960, and in 1962. A right bloody workhouse she was too!


----------



## eddyw (Nov 6, 2007)

Some info on 1923 "Menelaus" here:
http://www.clydemaritime.co.uk/node/592


----------



## Pat Kennedy (Apr 14, 2007)

Incidentally, we always pronounced the name as Menalaws. But I saw the movie Troy a few years ago, and learned the proper pronunciation was Menalayus.(Thumb)


----------



## stein (Nov 4, 2006)

Pat Kennedy said:


> Incidentally, we always pronounced the name as Menalaws. But I saw the movie Troy a few years ago, and learned the proper pronunciation was Menalayus.(Thumb)


I was on a Wilhelmsen ship named after a French town, Tourcoing" and when I phoned the Wilhelmsen office once asking if there existed some construction drawings of the ship I used my best French pronounciation. I was asked to repeat the name twice. Then the man got it. "Oh, you mean "Tirrkoang," he said, in perfect Norwegian. And I felt not a little silly.

There is also the book "Blue Funnel Line: a photographic History" by Ian Collard, Menelaus III on page 80 and 81. And "Blue Funnels in the Mersey in the 1920's" by C. H. Milsom. A good picture of Menelaus III on page 43. The first is a small horizontal format soft-cover book published in 2013, the second a stapled magazine format Sea Breezes publication first published in 1988. Presumably they are both cheap.


----------



## Nairny (Jul 23, 2019)

Hello All
Thanks for your generosity of your time I appreciate the responses !
I will some further digging (Will keep me away from the cricket headlines!)
Best Regards
Nick


----------



## Pat Kennedy (Apr 14, 2007)

stein said:


> I was on a Wilhelmsen ship named after a French town, Tourcoing" and when I phoned the Wilhelmsen office once asking if there existed some construction drawings of the ship I used my best French pronounciation. I was asked to repeat the name twice. Then the man got it. "Oh, you mean "Tirrkoang," he said, in perfect Norwegian. And I felt not a little silly.
> 
> There is also the book "Blue Funnel Line: a photographic History" by Ian Collard, Menelaus III on page 80 and 81. And "Blue Funnels in the Mersey in the 1920's" by C. H. Milsom. A good picture of Menelaus III on page 43. The first is a small horizontal format soft-cover book published in 2013, the second a stapled magazine format Sea Breezes publication first published in 1988. Presumably they are both cheap.


I remember C H Milsom, he was editor of Sea Breezes magazine during the 1970s/80s. He published an article I had written concerning a voyage in the Memnon I did in 1960, and paid me the princely sum.of £30.
The TV series, Zena the Warrior Princess was a good resource for learning the proper pronuncistion of Blue Funnel ships names. I did read Robert Graves Greek Myths to find out about these charactefs but of course pronunciation was purely a matter of guesswork.
Tourcoing I would have got right, only because I heard it mentioned somewhere and was very taken with the sound of it.
Regards,
Pat


----------



## BillH (Oct 10, 2007)

"I would suggest you get your Dad a copy of Ships in Focus, Blue Funnel Line, available on Amazon. It is a handsome hardback book with photographs of virtually every Blue Funnel ship from AGAMEMNON in 1866 to BARBER PRIAM in 1977.
MENELAUS features on page 73".

Thanks for the plug, Pat. Doesn't seem like 21 years since it was published.


----------



## Pat Kennedy (Apr 14, 2007)

BillH said:


> "I would suggest you get your Dad a copy of Ships in Focus, Blue Funnel Line, available on Amazon. It is a handsome hardback book with photographs of virtually every Blue Funnel ship from AGAMEMNON in 1866 to BARBER PRIAM in 1977.
> MENELAUS features on page 73".
> 
> Thanks for the plug, Pat. Doesn't seem like 21 years since it was published.


My colleagues presented me with a copy when I retired in 2010.
It is indeed a beautiful book Bill and it is on my bookshelf within reach as I type this.
You are, I take it Bill H in between John Clarkson and Roy Fenton?(Thumb)


----------



## BillH (Oct 10, 2007)

Hi Pat,
Yes you take it correctly

Bill


----------



## backsplice (May 23, 2005)

I remember as a lad 2 years before I went to sea myself I watched the 
Menelaus take shape at the Caledon Shipyard Dundee there was another Bluie being built at the same time Menetheus (from memory)


----------



## makko (Jul 20, 2006)

My Dad was "made up" to 3/E, acting really as an extra 2/E on Menestheus when new. The engine controls jammed in Hong Kong harbour and she collided with a Chinese ship. I have to get the details again and scan his photos. He was being prepared for a Superintendency with BF but ended up teaching Marine Eng Cadets at Birkenhead Tech from 1968 onwards.
Rgds.
Dave


----------



## BillH (Oct 10, 2007)

backsplice said:


> I remember as a lad 2 years before I went to sea myself I watched the
> Menelaus take shape at the Caledon Shipyard Dundee there was another Bluie being built at the same time Menetheus (from memory)


MENESTHEUS “M” class steel motorship.
O.N. 187180. 8,510g. 4,873n. 494' 8" x 65' 4" x 28' 10¼ " oa
6-cyl. 2 S.C.S. A. (750 x 1500mm) B&W type by Harland & Wolff Ltd., Belfast. 8,000 BHP. 16½ kts.
26.8.1957: Launched by Mrs M. Hill at the Caledon Shipbuilding & Engineering Company Ltd., Dundee (Yard No. 510), for the Ocean Steamship Company Ltd. 
2.1958: Completed. 
1972: Transferred to the China Mutual Steam Navigation Company Ltd. 
7.1977: Transferred to Elder Dempster Lines Ltd., and renamed ONITSHA. 
19.5.1978: Sold for £148,000, to Palermo Shipping Company Ltd., (Thenamaris Maritime Inc., Greece, managers), Cyprus, and renamed ELISLAND. 
1978: Sold to Lung Fu Steel and Iron Company Ltd., Kaohsiung, for demolition. 
12.3.1979: Delivered. 
12.4.1979: Work commenced.


----------



## capnbobnz (Aug 23, 2012)

I was never in Blue Flue, in the opposition, Ben Line, but the above thread reminds me of a funny story a Ch. Engineer once told me.
In the early fifties before TV was enjoyed by everybody, in the Greenock Dockyard, which I believe built a few Blue Flue ships, a foreman who had TV was quizzed every day about what he had seen on the TV the night before.
One morning after being asked what he had seen the night before, he said, "Ach it was a funny sort of play, seemed to be set in ancient Greece, but ah tell ye whit, all the characters were named after Blue Funnel ships".


----------



## Pat Kennedy (Apr 14, 2007)

backsplice said:


> I remember as a lad 2 years before I went to sea myself I watched the
> Menelaus take shape at the Caledon Shipyard Dundee there was another Bluie being built at the same time Menetheus (from memory)


The last of the "M" class, the _Maron_ was built at Caledon. She was launched in Feb 1960 and handed over in April of that year.
I was one of the deck crew sent up to Dundee to take her firstly on sea trials and then around to Glasgow to commence loading for her maiden voyage to the far east.
On the way to Glasgow we anchored off Gordonstoun School near Lossiemouth and a couple of the school's whalers brought a party of pupils to inspect the ship. (_Maron_ was adopted by Gordonstoun which had links to the Holt family)
We were all sent down the holds to sweep up while they were aboard, but chiefly, I think, to prevent us making raucous comments to the toffs. 
While we were on passage to Glasgow, the seamen's strike broke out, so_ Maron_ just pottered around the West coast of Scotland for a few days to stop us from walking off in Glasgow. 
Eventually though, we ran out of provisions and went in to KGV.
By that time the strike was winding down so we decided to stay on and after loading was finished we sailed to Liverpool and docked inGladstone drydock for for some tail end work, then after working by for a few days we sailed her over to Birkenhead and paid off.(Thumb)


----------



## megabit (6 mo ago)

There are confused postings above.... The ship you almost certainly want want is the one my uncle was an officer on: Motor Vessel MENELAUS built by Caledon Shipbuilding & Engineering Co. Ltd. in 1957 for Ocean Steam Ship Co. Ltd. - A. Holt & Co., Liverpool, Refrigerated Cargo

Though your dates do not work out for Menelaus ( launched in 57) it was not the first of its class. That I believe was PELEUS and that launched in 1949 so it is possible maybe he served initially on PELEUS and later on MENELAUS (they look much the same) - incidentally it is one of that class which is the anachronistic ship you see going down the Suez in Lawrence of Arabia! Maybe your dad was on it. 

We still have an old back metal box from it with MENELAUS in white letters on it. Not sure what it was for. Incidentally it was MENELAUS or one of its sister ships of the same class. Maybe he knew my uncle Ken Jones!


----------



## jmcg (Apr 20, 2008)

Sorry, but I must disagree with the posting above.

The "P" class were wholly distinct from the "M" class. The "P" class were much lager and faster than the "M" class.

P's were steamers capable of 18+ knots whilst the Ms were motor ships with a maximum service speed of 16 knots.

I sailed on Menelaus - horrible voyage. Mighty glad to get back to to the "H" and "A" class.

BW

J


----------



## megabit (6 mo ago)

Responding to the above. I did not realise the Menelaus and Peleus meant M class and P class. You will note I said "I believe" so was not asserting the Menelaus and Peleus were the same class. I am delighted to be corrected and to learn more. 
I am guessing none of these ships had the stabilizers we see on modern ships. We imagine crew are used to it.. 
My uncle was a seasoned seadog who on his very first trip as a wartime apprentice ended up mid-Atlantic in a rowing boat - his ship now somewhat beneath the waves thanks to a U-Boat, picked up at 4am by another ship (The convoys were ordered not to stop for men in the water and got back to Liverpool by a bit of a circuitous route!) and h got his masters ticket on his 21st birthday or whichever it was that was the very youngest he could have been to have the ticket.

BUT he did tell us on return from one trip in Menelaus all the crew were sick as dogs! Ah well. He is sadly gone and Menelaus got broken up in the Far East in the seventies I think. He always used to say his ships and memories were now just razor blades ( recycled steel) which was sad.

I hope it was nevertheless scrapped under its original name ( someone will clarify hopefully ). I don't like ships having their names changes - it feels wrong.

As a married man, my uncle left Blue Funnel wishing to be more with his wife, so maybe a bit humbling to do so but joined the Belfast Steamship company and worked as a first officer on the RORO Ulster Prince and Ulster Queen. He was home very other day compared to being away for months. 

Both these vessels ended up sold first to Greeks and then to Arab companies with multiple name changes. The Prince ended up becoming "razor blades" at an Indian breaking shore and following an Engine Room explosion the former the Queen but then the 'Al Kahfain" sank and lies inverted on a reef just off Safaga in the Middle East.


----------

