# Legionnaires' fear on cruise ship (BBC News)



## SN NewsCaster (Mar 5, 2007)

Five Britons are thought to be among six cruise ship passengers taken to hospital in Sweden with symptoms of Legionnaires disease.

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## JoK (Nov 12, 2006)

Someone's not cleaning the Spas.


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## Pompeyfan (Aug 9, 2005)

Doctors aboard Black Watch would have known right away if this was Legionnaires' disease before the passengers left the ship. It is a very simple test.

And if it is Legionella pneumophila affecting them all, it would have almost certainly been caught on board. This is not transmitted by person to person. The various forms Gastroenteritis is often blamed on passengers by passing the buck, but not in this case. It has an incubation period of 2 to 10 days. 

And cleaning the ship to eradicate all traces of bacteria as Fred Olsen say, may not be enough in this case. It will help of course, but almost certainly not by cleaning alone.

This is more of engineering good practice, than simply good hygeine practice alone. It is a combination of both. The bacteria thrives in warm stagnant water, in rain tanks and air-conditioning systems. It can colonise in shower heads etc. People inhale water droplets contaminated. 

Black Watch is an old ship and I wonder if her engineering is more of a challenge to keep this bacteria away?.

The elderly and those with respiratory problems are most at risk with Legionella, as are smokers. Also, when infected, it can spread to other parts of the body through the bloodstream. Antibiotics are essential to get rid of it. David


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## Ian (Mar 27, 2004)

*Fred Olsen ship*

Anyone know what the present day Quaranteen rules are for Cruise ships Etc ?. 
serious question honestly things must have changed a bit since my time at sea
(?HUH) .
Regards Derbyroy


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## Gavin Gait (Aug 14, 2005)

Its only a year since the Black Prince had exactly the same problems...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/edinburgh_and_east/5066916.stm

You'd think they would have learned the lesson first time round.

Davie(Thumb)


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## Pompeyfan (Aug 9, 2005)

Firstly Legionnaires diesease is totally different to the gastro problems aboard Black Prince or any other ship.

Legionnaires cannot be passed from passenger to passenger. It would have been caught from the same source.

If it is found to be from Black Watch, they have far bigger problems that cleaning the ship for stomach bugs.

Quarantine was far easier during my time at sea because we had a Isolation Hospital which was part of my Crew Hospital complex. We isolated illnesses that could be caught by others, including notifiable disease of course. The latter is a minefield, and not always clear cut. The main use of the isolation section was things likes Measles which we had a lot of when a liner transporting children from A to B. But any passenger or crew that needed to be isolated was sent to my isolation section. Now, passengers and crew are kept in cabins which is not so secure in my opinion.

The doctor on all cruise ships would have a list of notifiable disease, but they would not always know for certain if the patient had this or that, so would air on the side of caution which is why stomach bugs today are always diagnosed by the media as Norovirus, when it may not be. This summer you can be pretty sure that many ourbreaks shore side at least will be the bacteria form of Gastroenteritis, not viral. David


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## SN NewsCaster (Mar 5, 2007)

*Cruise ship Britons in hospital (BBC News)*

Seven British cruise ship passengers remain in a Swedish hospital with suspected Legionnaire's disease.

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## Tmac1720 (Jun 24, 2005)

David, please forgive my ignorance and feel free to correct me if I am wrong but is it possible that this "bug" could be piped through the vessel from one contaminated area via the air conditioning system? In which case is it possible the crew as well as the passengers would be at risk. The reason I ask is it is bad enough the passengers being ill but if enough of the crew were incapacated that would surely put the vessel safety at risk.


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## fred henderson (Jun 13, 2005)

I fully support David's point that Legionnaires' disease is entirely different from the viral infections that are everywhere (At least 10 times worse in any NHS hospital than on a well run cruise ship). The BBC should not confuse the public by linking the two.

Legionella is far more serious and is usually caused by inadequate maintenance of air conditioning systems, bathrooms or spa facilities. In August 2002, seven members of the public died and 180 people suffered ill health as a result of an outbreak of legionella at a council-owned arts and leisure facility in the town centre of Barrow-in-Furness, ***bria. Most of these victims were merely walking past the vents from the air conditioning plant.

If these people really have legionella than Fred Olsen are in serious trouble and the negligent engineers concerned could face criminal prosecution.

Fred(Thumb)


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## JoK (Nov 12, 2006)

Tmac1720 said:


> David, please forgive my ignorance and feel free to correct me if I am wrong but is it possible that this "bug" could be piped through the vessel from one contaminated area via the air conditioning system? In which case is it possible the crew as well as the passengers would be at risk. The reason I ask is it is bad enough the passengers being ill but if enough of the crew were incapacated that would surely put the vessel safety at risk.


I can't see it because Legionaries Disease is related to tower cooling of AC that you have in buildings. Ships AC is a closed circuit, either chilled water or freon.


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## Pompeyfan (Aug 9, 2005)

Fred is quite correct, if this is Legionnaires disease, Fred Olsen certainly have a problem. And we have still not heard what it really is, why the delay?. Finding out is a very simple test.

Tmac

A simple answer to your question is that Legionnaires disease is spread through by aerosols from a contaminated water system which is why it is an engineering problem.

The bacteria which causes legionnaires disease thrives in temperatures between 20 and 50C.

The bacterium was discovered in 1976 following an outbreak at an American Legion convention in Philadalphia.

As indicted above, and what others posters have said, the infection is kept under control by good engineering practices. This should not be a problem if water systems, cooling towers, evaporative condensers, showers and spas etc are properly maintained. 

The bacteria is widespread in water and ponds, but cause no problems. It is only when water systems as mentioned above are constructed where the bacteria grows if not properly maintained. It is bascially all about correct temperature control and cleaning, replacing corroded parts, scale and algae should be removed, shower heads cleaned and so on.

An engineer would be far better qualified to explain this than me. I know what the bacteria is, how it is caught, and how to identify it. But engineers are the best people to keep in under control which is why Fred Olsen could be in trouble as Fred said. David


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## K urgess (Aug 14, 2006)

From what I heard on the news this morning the disease was picked up while the two passengers where in Russia and has nothing to do with the ship itself.


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## SN NewsCaster (Mar 5, 2007)

*Two get Legionnaires' on cruise (BBC News)*

Two ship passengers test positive for Legionnaires' disease as a cruise around Europe is cut short.

More from BBC News...


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## Pompeyfan (Aug 9, 2005)

Its the news I expected. Doctors on board would have known straight away. 

Lets hope for Fred Olsen's sake that the source was found shoreside. David


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