# Tiny nav and floodlights



## tugboat

I'm looking for some advice from you seasoned modellers. 
I have a static scratch-built supply boat model that I part built many years ago and lurking on this forum has stimulated a desire to finish it and do it justice. There is a lot of finishing fitting out to do yet but I have been wondering about what to do with it when it is finished. Seems a shame to just stick it back in the bookcase where it is out of the line of sight and I wondered about mounting it on the wall in a proper case where it would be in view. 
Then I started thinking about whether it might be possible to light it so it appeared to be steaming at sea of an evening, but being a newbie I don't know all the sources of gear. I also don't know all the tricks and wheezes that you guys have learned over the years. I have seen working nav and floodlights but they are all way too big. The model is 1:100 so just over 2 feet long and the navlights would need to be about 3mm tall. The floods would need to be about 5mm x 3mm. I'm guessing that lights that small, even if available wouldn't throw much light, so thought I'd ask you guys if my plan is achievable. 
Are there any fibre optic solutions that might do the trick? I don't really want to just stick a light in the top of the case, that kinda looks a bit like showing off somehow. I'm looking more to create a diorama without all the surrounding bits, if that makes any sense.
Thanks for any help/ advice/ cunning tricks you may be able to offer.


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## Shipbuilder

Use Light Emitting Diodes (LEDs). They are very small and use very little current. You can get high brilliance ones and their life-expectancy is 100,000 hours. Current drain is only about 100mA. A 3mm LED from Maplin costs about £1.69! You can get them in white, blue, green, red, amber & orange. You can even get flashing LEDs.
Bob


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## tugboat

Thanks Bob, I'll certainly look into that. I appreciate your help.


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## Satanic Mechanic

I'm not really a modeller, but as well as Maplins (a shop I love) RS also do an excellent range of mimature and subminature LEDs in a large variety of colours and voltages. 

http://uk.rs-online.com


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## billyboy

How about the "grain of wheat" bulbs the railway modelers use?


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## Shipbuilder

The trouble with grain of wheat bulbs is that they have a filament inside that has a limited life. OK if you have an easy way of replacing them. LEDs with life expectancy of 100,000 hours plus are a far better option. You can't look comfortably into a "high brilliance" LED - they really are bright. But if they are too bright, just reduce the voltage and their life-span will increase as their brilliance decreases.
Bob


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## Don Matheson

I would use LEDs for this project. If its going to be in a case LEDs will give a long life so less trouble replacing them if required, LEDs lasting much longer than normal miniature bulbs.
RS components which are easy to access in the UK, have a wonderful range of LEDs both in size and brightness so your Nav lights would be dimmer than your floodlights. They have green and red in the same sizes to fit with your nav lights.
Most supply boats sailed with their floodlights on, so you could use some brighter lights from the masts or cross trees shining down across the deck.
Check on the internet for sizes and power requirements.
I recently got some for a railway locomotive and the headlights were brighter than the ditch lights.

Don


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## tugboat

Thank you all for this info. I looked at the Maplin site earlier and their small LEDs (unless I have misunderstood) are 3mm diameter and about 7mm long. I'm not sure how I could accomodate those without making them look out of scale. I had hoped to find some about 3mm long and correspondingly narrower but I guess I may be 'up a gumtree' on that. Please come back with any more ideas and thoughts on the matter, all greatly appreciated. I'll have a look at the RS catalogue tomorrow. If all else fails, maybe there are tricks that can be used to disguise the out of scale bulbs. I'll get my camera sorted tomorrow and post some shots, so you can picture the problem areas. Thanks all.


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## Satanic Mechanic

you could maybe have a wee look at fibre optics if you fancy it and size is a major factor


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## John Dryden

I know this may be of no use to you but I bought 5 cigarette lighters the other day from the pound shop.I never noticed but my daughter pointed out they have a bulb in them as well.Anyway looking at it now it has 3 little batteries attached to the light and one larger battery for the ignition,so possibly with a bit of a delicate salvage operation at 5 for a pound it might be an idea.


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## michael charters

There are led's with three connection, by revesring the polarity they will give red, yellow or green emittions. Radio shack or radio spares have them. good for port and starboard lights. 1;100 scale.


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## Don Matheson

Tugboat Been looking around and here is a site that supplies 1mm LEDS which should fit your needs.
They also do Fibre Optics which are brilliant but the only problem in Model Boats is getting them to retain their brightness when you bend them tightly on a corner, to fit into a light fitting for example but good if you play around and learn how to do it.
You could use the F/Os for the nav lights and LEDS for the floodlights which would give you a good lighted appearance due to brightness.
The website is American but will teach you a lot of what you are looking for.

http://www.fiberopticproducts.com/Leds.htm

Hope this helps

Don


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## tugboat

Don, thank you so much, I'll look at that as soon as I can.


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## tugboat

*Some pics*

Here are some photos showing the scale of things. My masts are currently solid dowels, but I could replace with brass tube. The bore would be pretty small, so I'm thinking fibre optic would fit easiest. However, I hadn't realised there is a problem with bending them sharply. Assuming I get the light to the right place, how might I then get the spread of light to make it look like a proper nav light?Ah, woes galore! 
It might seem premature to be thinking about this stuff, but I would need to open up the structure of the model to install the lighting, so no point in making rails and winches until this is decided upon. 
I need to fit 2 floods side by side on each funnel facing aft. Rectangles about 5mm x 3mm would be to scale so think I could use leds for those, maybe put a reflector behind. Do the leds give off much heat? Wondering if I could fit a lens on the floods?


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## Satanic Mechanic

I work a fair bit with fibre optics - they are not super sensitive to bending just so long as you dont 'crease' them and upset the internal reflections. Nice smooth radii and they are fine


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## Satanic Mechanic

tugboat said:


> Here are some photos showing the scale of things. My masts are currently solid dowels, but I could replace with brass tube. The bore would be pretty small, so I'm thinking fibre optic would fit easiest. However, I hadn't realised there is a problem with bending them sharply. Assuming I get the light to the right place, how might I then get the spread of light to make it look like a proper nav light?Ah, woes galore!
> It might seem premature to be thinking about this stuff, but I would need to open up the structure of the model to install the lighting, so no point in making rails and winches until this is decided upon.
> I need to fit 2 floods side by side on each funnel facing aft. Rectangles about 5mm x 3mm would be to scale so think I could use leds for those, maybe put a reflector behind. Do the leds give off much heat? Wondering if I could fit a lens on the floods?


LEDs are wonderfully efficient and the amount of heat given of is minimal


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## jerome morris

Tugboat, These guy' know a thing or two about what your after.http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php#22


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## forbesbrb

after reading about using leds i would like to ask do you not need to fit resistors with leds.


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## 6639

yes, and that's the thing i don't understand anything about, so can offer no helpo myself other than to say they seem to be the way to go as per model lighting.


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## tugboat

My apologies for not coming back sooner. Thank you all for your input, I've had a quick look at Model Mayhem and that looks to be a rich source of info and help. I'm hoping that very soon I'll have the time to get stuck into the model. No doubt I'll have more questions in due course, never too proud to ask!
Cheers, all.


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## Tankman

Take a look at the LEDs offered by this company: 

www.component-shop.co.uk 

They do them as small as 2.1mm as well as 5mm ultra-bright and will supply the correct resistors for your supply voltage.

Chris


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## Don Matheson

Tugboat Been looking at your mast photos and the center one shows that you need three lights in a very close area. My suggestion would be to change it to a brass mast. This done you could try the following with LEDs. these can be reduced to one wire if you use the brass tube as the return which will give you more room to get your lights in. Use the brass and cut holes where you want to put the light and place the lantern outside it against the mast, if you want you can isolate one light from the other thus giving a more concentrated light. A second light could be used for the lower light and again isolate it (if you want) from the other light.
The stern light which you show as close to the mast could be brought closer to the mast and used with the same light as the upper forward light, just drilling through to allow light into the lantern which would be closer to the mast than the photo.
This allows you to fit LEDs as the nav lights by drilling straight through and gather all your wires inside or under the bridge.

The problem with fibre optics in this scale is that while perfect for the forward lights the stern light requires three or at least two bends which would be quite tight and thus destroy their light. However if you bring the lantern closer to the mast you could quite easily install LEDs ending their run at the hole you drilled for the lanterns. If you cant bend the fibre into the lantern then try polishing the end of the fibre which should increase the light emitted.
Hope you understand my thinking on this and tht some of it may help.

Don


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## tugboat

Hi Don, thanks for your input. I only need to fit one light up each mast in order to show her 'steaming', though it occurs to me that if the led failed it would be a headache to replace, so maybe a good idea to fit two. I had already proposed the idea to use brass tube for the masts, to hide the wires, assuming I can get the right size. Using the mast itself as the return is a good wheeze though, and may well be useful in order to accomodate 2 lights on a mast. Shall have to practise my soldering skills!! Thinking I could take one wire from each led up to the top of the mast and solder them to the brass in one hit. What do you think?


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## Don Matheson

Tugboat You should not have a problem getting brass tube for your boat. Any model shop near you which does boats or model railways will (or should) carry brass tube which comes in all model sizes from rod through to tube and each size fits inside the one bigger. Makes it easy to put steps into masts.
When you are going to fit the lights in the mast you should practice a bit outside the mast before fitting. It may be possible to leave the light just at the entry to the mast letting it shine up and out the holes you have for your lantern. This may just give you enough light from an easily accessed place. If you have to run them up inside the mast, wire them before running them in and cover the joints with heatshrink or electrical tape to avoid interference. 
Another way is to build a separate light carriage using the brass tube I mentioned, you can build it to your satisfaction outside the mast and if you make them with the lights at the right height just run it in when you are happy with your work.
Anything else I can help with or to elaborate on these ideas let me know. Not always on line but always at home just now.

Don


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