# Lobnitz triple expansion engine



## fitzcarraldo (Jul 18, 2014)

Dear All

I have just taken delivery of a 600hp triple expansion engine as fitted to the clearance dredger "Robert Weir" that operated within preston docks, lancashire. After a considerable amount of time and negotiations the engine has finally been delivered to our site in the famous seafaring county of Staffordshire!! just don't mention the titanic.... before we go any further a bit about myself, quite young at 39 I hope! served my time as a shore side electro/mechanical engineer (4 year apprenticeship), ran to sea and became engineer officer with ARC marine aggregate dredgers, then Maersk followed by a short stint on the elderly diesel electric environmental research ship Cirolana that was full of asbestos and leaked stern tube oil then Hanson aggregates on dredgers again sucking up un-exploded ordnance finally sailing as chief engineer on the UK's only touring theatre ship with no handover, engineroom in Norwegian and no money for up keep.......and managed to **** of my previous employer in the national newspaper the Guardian after speaking to a reporter "off the record", so those bridges got burnt.
Anyway, i went to sea after visiting the engineroom of the Manxman after my dad took me there when very young just after it arrived in Preston docks. From that day i had to go to sea, the only shock i had is that no enginerooms exist like that which was a major disappointment. As things started to get more modern, in the end i did not enjoy the modern machinery spaces of today and I dreaded the moment I would be having an argument with a LCD display on the side of a common rail main engine, mid atlantic and no power probably like the scene of charlie and the chocolate factory where they ask the computer where is the wonka ticket and the computer basically tells them to bugger off.

After I left sea I started my own business working with pumps etc and this has grown and last year we purchased a rural yard in Staffordshire that just so happened to have a Victorian railway goods shed......a shed that is perfected for a mock up steam ships engineroom. After getting permission from my wife, she is used to this by now as the emergency generator for the yard is a paxman 6rphx engine and the one for the house is a gardner 4lw 1942, the Lobnitz engine finally arrived this August the day before our wedding so along with the preparations for the following day we had a 90 ton crane unloading a steam ships engine.

The main reason for this message is the potentially very important information all those retired engineers have on the operation of such triple expansion engines. I would like to start posting frequent threads on our progress as the engine requires a full rebuild and as we deal with each item I will give a description of what we have done, a few pictures and any advise we need to keep all that grey matter out there working!

So all those engineers who have triple expansion engine experience, the telegraph has just been put on standby!

Mark Wildon

p.s the next thread will be about moving the dam thing as we need to get it inside one of our main workshops without a crane, the Romans may give us a few ideas on this one


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## chadburn (Jun 2, 2008)

Keep them coming, although a long time ago I have had experience on the Lobnitz built engine.


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## AlbieR (May 18, 2007)

Still not grown up then Mark just getting bigger toys, nice to see you have moved on from airport fire engines at least. Best of luck with it!


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## chadburn (Jun 2, 2008)

Just make sure the turning gear is in.(Thumb) Can you still get parts for the Junkers Ring loading spring?


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## fitzcarraldo (Jul 18, 2014)

AlbieR said:


> Still not grown up then Mark just getting bigger toys, nice to see you have moved on from airport fire engines at least. Best of luck with it!


Well Albie! long time no speak, I bet you miss the quality food and senior engineers on the Arco Bourne!! I do miss them MB275's!!

Well it was the sale of the last crash tender to one of the worlds biggest copper mines that has funded the purchase of this engine, growing up........never.


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## fitzcarraldo (Jul 18, 2014)

chadburn said:


> Just make sure the turning gear is in.(Thumb) Can you still get parts for the Junkers Ring loading spring?


The turning gear........its stuck in! seized.

I will get some pictures of the engine over the weekend. The plan is to move the engine indoors within the next two weeks and to start the strip down, once we have the cylinders covers off etc and pull the pistons then depending what we find will determine what my next google search will be...."junkers ring loading spring suppliers.com"!

I am not looking forward to stripping down the piston rod seals, I have not even tried looking yet for replacements for United states packing company. My plan is to fully strip down the engine but to leave the bed plate, columns and main cylinder block undisturbed due to disturbing any alignment but remove the crank etc so that every thing is clean, rebuilt or replaced. I am giving myself two to three years to complete. The building it will be going in needs little work but the engine will be restored fully before being moved into place on the new concrete foundations.


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## AlbieR (May 18, 2007)

Hi Mark,
Have a look at this link
http://archiveshub.ac.uk/data/gb248-ugd215;ugd356;ugd130/4;ucs004
I now live on Kintyre and am in Glasgow on a regular basis, if you see anything you want looking up give me a shout on a PM.
Albie


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## lrjohn (Nov 18, 2007)

Mark,
You have to visit Southampton and come on board SS Shieldhall, which has two triple expansion engines and was also built by Lobnitz in 1955.
John


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## John Rogers (May 11, 2004)

Who made the steam engines they put in the old Fort Boats. They give the HP in my Discharge Book but no name.


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## Mad Landsman (Dec 1, 2005)

SS Shieldhall engines:

http://www.shipsnostalgia.com/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/37149/title/sheildhallengine-ro/cat/all


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## A.D.FROST (Sep 1, 2008)

John Rogers said:


> Who made the steam engines they put in the old Fort Boats. They give the HP in my Discharge Book but no name.


They were based on a NEM(North Eastern Marine}T/E.Mostly built by Dominiom Engineering Workshops, and Canadian Vickers,(nameyour FORT)


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## A.D.FROST (Sep 1, 2008)

You'll run out of money and wives before you run out of steam(Hippy)


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## fitzcarraldo (Jul 18, 2014)

AlbieR said:


> Hi Mark,
> Have a look at this link
> http://archiveshub.ac.uk/data/gb248-ugd215;ugd356;ugd130/4;ucs004
> I now live on Kintyre and am in Glasgow on a regular basis, if you see anything you want looking up give me a shout on a PM.
> Albie


Thanks for the other, I will be going to Preston Archives to look at the original build specification for the "Robert Weir", they have all the do***ents to include engine drawings and machinery space layout.

One thing I am very interested in is how did they drive the inboard dredge pump, the engine has two very crude dog clutches and I "assume!" that one drove the prop and the other drove the dredge pump via a drive shaft that penetrated the forward engineroom bulkhead via some sort of shaft seal so in the event of pump failure the pump room took the flooding only, something the Arco Bourne knew all about. The engine also has a governor which was connected to the main crank via a leather belt, my thoughts are that as this was adjustable did this governor possibly do two jobs, one was overspeed and the other was the operation of the dredge pump at fixed speed. This theory has one major problem, did this crude steam driven dredger have a variable pitch propeller to enable all this to happen or are we missing another separate steam engine driving the pump but this does not explain the two dogs clutches, you would still need propulsion when dredging a dock and to operate the dredge pump at the correct speed without a variable pitch prop would require some serious skill maneuvering a ship at full speed around a dock basin! 

I am sure we will all find out soon though.


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## fitzcarraldo (Jul 18, 2014)

A.D.FROST said:


> You'll run out of money and wives before you run out of seam(Hippy)


I have told her it is part of a master plan, open a residential care home for old marine engineers, we can just sit them all in font of the engine with mugs of tea with it slowly turning over and take the cash! We are after a medium and slow speed diesel to complete the set up!!

If any social services inspector condemns the accommodation, food, overall living standards all we will say is it all forms part of the maritime experience, they love it!!!


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## A.D.FROST (Sep 1, 2008)

fitzcarraldo said:


> I have told her it is part of a master plan, open a residential care home for old marine engineers, we can just sit them all in font of the engine with mugs of tea with it slowly turning over and take the cash! We are after a medium and slow speed diesel to complete the set up!!
> 
> If any social services inspector condemns the accommodation, food, overall living standards all we will say is it all forms part of the maritime experience, they love it!!!


Be careful even Dr.Diesel committed suicide when he saw what he had created.


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## Varley (Oct 1, 2006)

Are you sure it wasn't the Engineers of Dresden that did for him? Fearing an end to the reign of hot fog and a return to school for combined tickets?

The same motive, different suspects.


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## fitzcarraldo (Jul 18, 2014)

More like a dodgy handrail or I had heard those "Evac" sewage systems on cruise ships could be quite aggressive!


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## Varley (Oct 1, 2006)

Covert action by Fred Carnot's army?


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## chadburn (Jun 2, 2008)

fitzcarraldo said:


> Thanks for the other, I will be going to Preston Archives to look at the original build specification for the "Robert Weir", they have all the do***ents to include engine drawings and machinery space layout.
> 
> One thing I am very interested in is how did they drive the inboard dredge pump, the engine has two very crude dog clutches and I "assume!" that one drove the prop and the other drove the dredge pump via a drive shaft that penetrated the forward engineroom bulkhead via some sort of shaft seal so in the event of pump failure the pump room took the flooding only, something the Arco Bourne knew all about. The engine also has a governor which was connected to the main crank via a leather belt, my thoughts are that as this was adjustable did this governor possibly do two jobs, one was overspeed and the other was the operation of the dredge pump at fixed speed. This theory has one major problem, did this crude steam driven dredger have a variable pitch propeller to enable all this to happen or are we missing another separate steam engine driving the pump but this does not explain the two dogs clutches, you would still need propulsion when dredging a dock and to operate the dredge pump at the correct speed without a variable pitch prop would require some serious skill maneuvering a ship at full speed around a dock basin!
> 
> I am sure we will all find out soon though.


Bucket Dredgers had a similiar sort of layout where there were two Dog Clutches one either side of the Engine. When moving the Dredger the Ladder clutch was disengaged and the vessel was propelled to the desired position. The Prop clutch was disengaged and the Ladder Clutch engaged. Dredger movement was not by using the Prop but by the Winches which were situated for and aft, the Wires from the Winches were then secured to hard points on the river bank or anchors in the riverbed, the for and aft, side to side movement was done by the Winches which had Telegraphs from the Bridge under the hand of the Dredge Master who may not be the Skipper.
Suction Dredgers usually have a seperate pump engine, if as it appears in your case you wonder if the pump was driven by the main engine and the Prop was also clutched in that could cause problems if the Pump suddenly stopped due to a blockage whilst the vessel was underway.


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## John Rogers (May 11, 2004)

A.D.FROST said:


> They were based on a NEM(North Eastern Marine}T/E.Mostly built by Dominiom Engineering Workshops, and Canadian Vickers,(nameyour FORT)


Thank You for the PM and the info.(Thumb)


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