# Grimsby Fishing Vessels



## Clem

Hi everyone, I've started this thread to discuss Grimsby fishing vessels. I'm in the process of compiling a database of the above and, would welcome any contributions on this theme. ie. photo's, stories of life on board, histories of the vessels etc.

Hopefully as this thread develops, it can become a reference point for people with similar interests.

Regards

Clem


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## brixhamrfc

*Grimsby trawlers*

Clem, I have photos of Apollo and Silver Stream if they are any good to you, regards, Trev


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## Clem

That would be great Raymond, you do have my email?

Apollo being GY139, ex. GY227, ex. GY605. I have no record of Silver Stream.

Cheers

Clem


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## glenn

Silver Stream GY 386 Burnt out during refit towed to New Holland for scrap see my gallery for pics


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## glenn

Try these two sites Clem loads of good stuff on them
http://web.ukonline.co.uk/rayricho/index.htm
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/grimsby.trawlers/
The first one is the home page for Consols & second is the home page for sindwinders good hunting


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## brixhamrfc

*Grimsby trawlers*

Clem, Silver Stream and Apollo are/were similar longliners. Apollo GY 36, and Silver Stream GY 386. I'll post a couple of photos onto the gallery for you, regards, Trev.........Glenn, you are quite right of course, Silver Stream was burnt out (well, the wheelhouse was) during a refit. Trev


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## brixhamrfc

*Silver Stream & Apollo*

Hi again, I posted photos of these 2 some time ago, they are amongst the first loaded on the fishing vessel bit, page 106 approx.


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## Clem

Thanks Trev, Glenn. I've checked out your galleries, nice pictures. The Consol's website is a favourite of mine. The Sidewinder site is new to me, so thanks again.

Clem


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## Clem

Hi everyone, here is a list of vessels I'm currently researching. So if anyone reading this has any information of any kind relating to these vessels (including pics), please let me know by posting here or by PM.

Regards

Clem

GY6	Ross Kelly
GY19	Stockham
GY22	Northern Eagle
GY65	Lancer
GY68	Tagalie
GY110	Northern Princess
GY121	Northern Prince
GY142	Northern Sea
GY148	Spurs
GY190	Northern Spray
GY204	Northern Gem
GY245	Euryalus
GY249	British
GY263	Cradock
GY280	Mildenhall
GY289	Northern Dawn
GY333	Boston Valetta
GY354	Peken
GY389	Taipo
GY395	Lifeguard
GY427	Northern Sky
GY440	Northern Sun
GY453	Kyoto
GY457	Clixby
GY467	Digby
GY484	Port Vale
GY507	Recordo
GY511	Varanis
GY596	Boston Coronet
GY600	Osako
GY625	Recono
GY661	Tokio
GY664	Lemberg
GY679	Garola
GY689	Okino
GY810	Strephon
GY1037	War Duke
GY1306	Xylopia
GY1367	Kirmington
GY	Katie Louise
GY	Efficient


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## Clem

*GY280 Mildenhall*

Starting with *GY280 Mildenhall*, I have not yet discovered how she was lost and, I don't have an image of her. If anyone knows, please post.

Official Number: 162893 
Port of Registry: Grimsby
Number: GY280 
Name: Mildenhall
Callsign: GYDX 
Type: Steam Trawler	
Built: 1/35 
By: Cochrane & Sons Ltd; Selby 
Gross Tonnage: 434 
Net Tonnage: 237
Length: 156ft. 
Beam: 25.9 ft.
Draught: 14.1 ft.
(Note: Measurements are in Feet and Tenths of Feet)
Engines: T. 3Cy. 110 NHP 
By: Amos & Smith Ltd; Hull
Owner: H. Croft Baker; Grimsby 
Comments: 1/35 built as GY126 Drangey; Admiralty service purchased 8/39 or 1/40 as A/S trawler FY195 sold 46; 6/46 registered GY280 Drangey; 3/47 renamed GY280 Mildenhall; other owners 1/35 Rinovia Steam Fishing Co. Ltd (manager J.G.Little); 7/37 Drangey SF; Admiralty; 6/46 Hull Ice Co; 11/46 H. Croft Baker
Fate: Ran aground, Murmansk coast, 1/11/48


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## wully farquhar

*fishing vessels*

Hi Clem,Great you started this thread,hopefully there will be more broken down fishermen!!! will put things on.
Cheers,-------Wully (Thumb) (Applause)


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## Clem

*GY280 Mildenhall*

In her guise as the A/S trawler Drangey FY195, the Mildenhall was involved in the rescue of survivors from the liner Empress of Britain when she was bombed and torpedoed in the 39/45 conflict.

Ref: *The Role of the CPR (Canadian Pacific Railway) Ships in World War II * 

"In late October 1940 the best-known of the CPR's liners and flagship of the company's Atlantic Fleet, the magnificent Empress of Britain, was the next victim of enemy action. She was travelling alone to Glasgow from Suez via South Africa, when she was bombed off the northwest coast of Ireland by a Focke Wulf Condor plane. The "Condors" were long-range aircraft used by the Luftwaffe to bomb merchant ships and to spot convoys for the U-boats. When the Condor attacked Empress of Britain the ship's crew put up a determined defense, but they were unable to shoot down the plane and its hits caused terrible fires to break out. Soon the fires were so out of control that the vessel's master, Captain C.H. Sapsworth, was forced to give the order to abandon ship. Forty-five lives were lost as a result of the attacks. *The survivors, which included women and children, were rescued later that afternoon by the Polish destroyer Burza, the British destroyer HMS Echo and three British naval trawlers Cape Agona, Drangey, and Paynter.* The still burning Empress remained afloat and the next day two Royal Navy tugs, Marauder and Thames took her in tow with the intention of bringing her in safely to port. She was surrounded by escort ships, but in spite of the escorts' vigilance, two days later on October 28th, the German U-boat, U-32, managed to sneak by the escorts and torpedo the crippled Empress. She sank within ten minutes. At 42,348-tons, Empress of Britain was the largest Allied passenger liner to be sunk and the biggest merchant ship loss of the war."


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## Clem

wully farquhar said:


> Hi Clem,Great you started this thread,hopefully there will be more broken down fishermen!!! will put things on.
> Cheers,-------Wully (Thumb) (Applause)


  I never got the chance to be a broken down fisherman Wully. (*))


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## trawlercook

HI CLEM I SAILED ON SEVERAL OF THE BOATS YOU MENTIONED ROSS KELLY BOSTON CORONET WHEN OUT OF LOWESTOFT AND THE KIRMINGTON AND ALL THE OTHER SLIEGHTS BOATS WADDINGTON ,FISKERTON,SYESTON AND SCAMPTON WAS MY FAVORIT NEARLY A YEAR.I LIVE IN HULL AND IF YOUR NEAR I COULD SHOW YOU AS MANY PICTURES OF TRAWLERS AS YOU WANT.I BUILD MODELS OF TRAWLERS ALL THE TIME AND YOUR WELCOME TO COME AND SEE SOME.OTHER WISE I HAVE MY OWN WEB SIGHT [email protected] THERE ARE A FEW ON THERE,IF I CAN BE OF ANY HELP IN ANY WAY PLEASE DROP ME A LINE AS I,M AN OLD FISHERMAN WASHED ASHORE IN MY YOUTH (SOB SOB)


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## Clem

Hi Colin, thanks for your interest, I'll email you later. The ships I'm checking out were ones a relative of mine worked on. He retired from fishing in the 70's and, now he's keen to have his memoirs put down for posterity. This ties in with my interest with the industry.

Regards

Clem


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## trawlercook

Clem Whats His Name I Fished From 1965 To The End Thats When I Ended Up In Lowestoft But I Did Quite A Long Time In G.y.in Many Firms We May Have Come Across One And Other In Cotties White Knight Albion Many Other Watering Holes I Often Missed The Last Ferry Home
Regards Colin


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## Clem

Email on it's way Colin.

Cheers

Clem


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## ruud

Ahoy,

Just found me this "old" piccie of the Northern Crown GY-284;
*Northern Crown*,
An example of a new steam trawler with triple expansion engine, the Northern Crown, of 804 tons gross, is one of the largest trawlers built in 1953.She was constructed at Selby by Cochrane & Sons,Ltd., for Northern Trawlers, Ltd., of Grimsby, and is a sister of Northern Sceptre, under construction by the same builders.


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## Clem

*GY297 Northern Sceptre*

Hi everyone, here's some detail of Northern Sceptre of the same class as the Northern Crown & Northern Jewel. 

Rudd, I just found out one of my uncles was on the Northern Crown, the trip before she ran aground and sank, in 1956. I'll chase up some more info. on the her and post it on here.

Regards

Clem


*GY297 Northern Sceptre*

Official Number: 184919 
Port of Registry: Grimsby
Number: GY297 
Name: Northern Sceptre
Callsign: MQTQ 
Type: Steam Trawler (oil burner)	
Built: 2/54 
By: Cochrane & Sons Ltd. Selby 
Gross Tonnage: 804 
Net Tonnage: 291
Length: 183 ft. 4 in. 
Beam: 32 ft. 
Draught: 16 ft. 5 in?
Engines: Triple expansion 3 Cy. 
By: Amos & Smith Ltd. Hull 
Owner: Northern Trawlers Ltd. 
Manager: John Bennett 
Comments: Same class of ships (Northern Crown, Northern Sceptre and, Northern Jewel) built in the same yard 
Fate: Scrapped 10/78


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## glenn

*Call Sign*

Call Sign Northern Sceptre was MQTQ


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## Clem

glenn said:


> Call Sign Northern Sceptre was MQTQ


Thanks Glenn, I'll update the post.


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## martin johns

Hi Clem,
Do you need any info on Grimsby boats that operated from Devon or Cornwall in the last thirty odd years? I'm not too good on the oldies i'm afraid.
Regards, Martin.


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## Clem

Please do, Martin, any contribution you care to make would be most welcome. What kind of fishing were/are these GY boats involved in? I think some went round in the late 70's for Mackerel.

Cheers

Clem


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## Clem

*GY453 Kyoto*

*GY453 Kyoto*

Official Number: 139319 
Port of Registry: Grimsby
Number: GY453 
Name: Kyoto
Callsign: GWDJ 
Type: Steam Trawler	
Built: 1917 
By: Cochrane & Sons; Selby 
Gross Tonnage: 262 
Net Tonnage: 104
Length: 121.8ft. 
Beam: 22.6 ft.
Draught: 12.2 ft.
(Note: Measurements are in Feet and Tenths of Feet)
Engines: Triple Expansion; 3 Cylinder; 76 RHP 
By: C.D.Holmes & Co. Ltd. Hull 
Owner: Japan Steam Fishing Co. (H.L.Taylor) 
Manager: C.Taylor
Comments: Built as H575 Cornelian (Kingston Steam Trawling Co.) till 1928; sold to Stewart Trawling Co. Hull; 7/30 to Grimsby as GY262 (Overseas Steam Fishing Co.); to Aberdeen (W.F. McIrvine) as A443 3/37; sold to J. Craig in 1940; Admiralty Service Hired 1/40 as A/P (Auxiliary Patrol) Trawler (Renamed Forfeit 1940) returned 6/46; 1/47 to Grimsby as GY453 Kyoto (Japan Steam Fishing Co.) 
Fate: Sold to Holland for scrapping 5/62


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## treeve

*GY393 Malaga*

Found this photo

Best Wishes
Raymond


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## treeve

*GY758 Imperia*

And another,
All Best, Raymond


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## Clem

Raymond, I've got info. on both these trawlers (Malaga & Imperia). I'll get round to posting soon.

Thanks

Clem


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## Clem

*GY758 Imperia*

Official Number: 134749 
Port of Registry: Grimsby
Number: GY758 
Name: Imperia
Callsign: MKGM 
Type: Steam Trawler	
Built: 1912 
By: Cook Welton Gemmell Ltd; Beverly 
Gross Tonnage: 213 
Net Tonnage: 88
Length: 117.2 ft.
Beam: 21.5 ft.
Draught: 12.1 ft.
(Note: Measurements are in Feet and Tenths of Feet)
Engines: Triple Expansion; 3 cylinder; 58 RHP 
By: Amos & Smith Ltd; Hull 
Owner: Trawlers (White Sea & Grimsby) Ltd (1937) 
Manager: J. N. Bacon 
Comments: Owners; 10/12 Pelham Steam Fishing; 7/13 North Western Steam Fishing; 3/14 Grimsby & North Sea Steam Fishing; 8/21 Trawlers White Sea & Grimsby Ltd; 1/46 T.C. & F. Moss; Admiralty Service; 1-6pdr; Hired 1914-19; Nov 1939 Boom gate vessel; returned Nov 1945
Fate: Scrapped 3/57


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## WLH

Clem said:


> Starting with *GY280 Mildenhall*, I have not yet discovered how she was lost and, I don't have an image of her. If anyone knows, please post.
> 
> Official Number: 162893
> Port of Registry: Grimsby
> Number: GY280
> Name: Mildenhall
> Callsign: GYDX
> Type: Steam Trawler
> Built: 1/35
> By: Cochrane & Sons Ltd; Selby
> Gross Tonnage: 434
> Net Tonnage: 237
> Length: 156ft.
> Beam: 25ft. 9in.
> Draught: 14ft. 1in.
> Engines: T. 3Cy. 110 NHP
> By: Amos & Smith Ltd; Hull
> Owner: H. Croft Baker; Grimsby
> Comments: 1/35 built as GY126 Drangey; Admiralty service purchased 8/39 or 1/40 as A/S trawler FY195 sold 46; 6/46 registered GY280 Drangey; 3/47 renamed GY280 Mildenhall; other owners 1/35 Rinovia Steam Fishing Co. Ltd (manager J.G.Little); 7/37 Drangey SF; Admiralty; 6/46 Hull Ice Co; 11/46 H. Croft Baker
> Fate: Ran aground, Murmansk coast, 1/11/48


ex Drangey GY126/46. A/S 39/46. Wrecked 1/11/48 Cape Nyemetski, Finland. WLH


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## Clem

Thanks WLH, a nice piece of information. I'm wondering if the crew survived. My uncle had left her in May of '47 but, he has no recall of her loss.

Clem


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## Brumlebass

Hello!
I have a photo of the old smack named "Esther". She was built in Grimsby in 1888, and was sold to the Faroe Islands in the 1930's I think. Then someone told me that she was sold back to Grimsby in 1996 (?). I took a picture of her back in the 80's. Maybe not a pretty sight, but are you interested? If you are, I'll have to scan the photo first. Then I'll guess I should load it up on shipsnostalgia?


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## Clem

*Esther*

Please do, any image of a vessel of that age would be interesting to see. Do you know what she got up to in Faeroe?

Regards

Clem


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## Brumlebass

Hello again!
I have just loaded up two images of Esther and Johanna under "Fishing wessels". One of them is not of good quality, the other one is from a book. Anyway: they are nice old ships. Is "smack" actually the right word for that kind of wessels? My english is not very good as you can see... In the Faroes they call them "slupp". Do you know if Esther really is located in Grimsby now?


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## john shaw

Clem

re trawlers you are currently researching:

my wife (she of the pic of the Lacerta) has a limited edition print by an artist, Adrian Thompson, called "The Call of the Sea". This shows the fish dock 1950s with the hydraulic tower to left distance.The featured boats are
GY80 Rapallo
GY252 Remindo (G F Sleight)
GY357 Athenia (Sir Thos. Robinson&Son)
*GY453 Kyoto* (H.L. Taylor & Co)

the latter is shown from stbd quarter view,as if moving away from the first 2 trawlers shown in the foreground,side by side alongside-- but neither the name nor number of Kyoto are shown on the hull.

The print is framed and glazed, and too large to scan-- I don't know how it would photograph, but I would be prepared to try?

The print was obtained from the Gy Telegraph in a readers' offer approx 1999/2000, if you are able to contact anyone / have any contacts at the Telegraph. Presumably, the artist (if you could trace him) has a photo from which he made the painting-- and may well have others?


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## Clem

Brumlebass said:


> Hello again!
> I have just loaded up two images of Esther and Johanna under "Fishing wessels". One of them is not of good quality, the other one is from a book. Anyway: they are nice old ships. Is "smack" actually the right word for that kind of wessels? My english is not very good as you can see... In the Faroes they call them "slupp". Do you know if Esther really is located in Grimsby now?


Hi there, they're great images you've posted of the Esther & Johanna. How nice to see a vessel built in the 19th century still, recently, working. A friend of mine has a register of Grimsby sailing smacks (the Johanna is certainly a smack), next time I see him I'll check out the details of the Esther and post the info. here. I'm not aware if she is now back in Grimsby.

Thanks Brumblebass

Clem


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## Clem

john shaw said:


> Clem
> 
> re trawlers you are currently researching:
> 
> my wife (she of the pic of the Lacerta) has a limited edition print by an artist, Adrian Thompson, called "The Call of the Sea". This shows the fish dock 1950s with the hydraulic tower to left distance.The featured boats are
> GY80 Rapallo
> GY252 Remindo (G F Sleight)
> GY357 Athenia (Sir Thos. Robinson&Son)
> *GY453 Kyoto* (H.L. Taylor & Co)
> 
> the latter is shown from stbd quarter view,as if moving away from the first 2 trawlers shown in the foreground,side by side alongside-- but neither the name nor number of Kyoto are shown on the hull.
> 
> The print is framed and glazed, and too large to scan-- I don't know how it would photograph, but I would be prepared to try?
> 
> The print was obtained from the Gy Telegraph in a readers' offer approx 1999/2000, if you are able to contact anyone / have any contacts at the Telegraph. Presumably, the artist (if you could trace him) has a photo from which he made the painting-- and may well have others?


Thanks for that John. I'll check out the artist, Adrian Thompson, I've never seen any of his paintings. The Telegraph, I'm aware, has a large collection of maritime photos but they are on the pricey side. I would expect the same would go for any prints they may have to sell.

Thanks for your offer to photograph the print yourself, if you could? The print taken out of doors in natural light and photographed could possibly avoid problems with flash glare.

I've already got one photo of the Kyoto, anchored in the Humber, waiting for the tide before landing. Also have you seen Jenny Morgan's, oil on canvas painting, in this thread?

Re: the first U.K. trawler to fish off Greenland, I'm still looking around (maybe someone else is aware), if I find anything I'll post here.

Best wishes

Clem


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## K urgess

Clem

If your mate's list contains owners names I'd be grateful for some info.

My gear grandfather's apprenticeship papers were registered in Grimsby in 1862 and I'm trying to find out which fishing smack it was. I have the owner/skipper's and possibly the mate's names. 

By 1870/71 he was in Hull on the smack "Sovereign" Official number 16748. She was 38 tons built in Plymouth in 1851 and registered in Hull in 1863. She was broken up in 1878 and struck off the registry in 1883. She ended up in Yarmouth after being sold in 1871. I have more details of crew etc if anyone else is doing research.

Cheers


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## Clem

Marconi Sahib said:


> Clem
> 
> If your mate's list contains owners names I'd be grateful for some info.
> 
> My gear grandfather's apprenticeship papers were registered in Grimsby in 1862 and I'm trying to find out which fishing smack it was. I have the owner/skipper's and possibly the mate's names.
> 
> By 1870/71 he was in Hull on the smack "Sovereign" Official number 16748. She was 38 tons built in Plymouth in 1851 and registered in Hull in 1863. She was broken up in 1878 and struck off the registry in 1883. She ended up in Yarmouth after being sold in 1871. I have more details of crew etc if anyone else is doing research.
> 
> Cheers


No problem, I'll have a look next time I visit him. Can you let me have the owners/skippers name, it could narrow things down a little? 

I've got a copy of the Seagoing Apprentices of Grimsby Index, but I'm afraid it only covers 1879-1937. I know Grimsby's (modern) apprentice system started in 1850, I'm afraid I don't have records for those first 28 years.

Cheers

Clem


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## K urgess

Clem

Many thanks for the kind offer. I had visions of not getting much further with my search. Because of what I'm about to tell you I probably won't anyway but thanks in advance for trying.

I really need the official number if possible so that I can spend more megabucks at the Canadian maritime heritage site.

My great grandfather's indenture (which is kept at the Dock Office Museum in Hull) is dated 19th July 1862 and registered at Grimsby on the 23rd. His name was John Donovan, which he later changed to Thomas Donovan, is translated as Thomas Douman in the 1871 census, Thomas Donmon on his marriage certificate and Thomas Dunham from 1881 census onwards. He lived in Hull from sometime in the 1860s to his death in 1925 and always listed himself as a fisherman. He was a foundling so I can find no record of his origins and I'm beginning to doubt some family legends. (*))

The master's name is given as Robert Gouldsbrough of Grimsby. He is traceable as a sailmaker in Sculcoates, Hull in 1851, a smack owner in Yarmouth in 1861 and back to a sailmaker in Hull, Hornsea and Owthorne in the following years. This may mean that his smack was registered in Yarmouth unfortunately but I'm sure he was still the owner. The name spelling also varies quite a bit. A lot of "southern" boats were coming up to nick our fish at this time because of the Brixham trawl and the discovery of the big cod pits in the North Sea but I'm sure you know all that.

The witness to the indenture is Thos. Bailey as close as I can get. He was probably the mate 'cos he was indentured to an Avison Terry, ship owner, in Hull in 1835.

Gouldsbrough was apprenticed to a sailmaker in Hull in 1832 so he was getting on a bit.

My GGFs names don't appear on the crew lists at Hull archives except for a J.Dunham in 1906 and on the Don and the Knot in 1906 and 1910 respectively as J. Donovan but they may not have been him. I know he must have signed on between 1871 and 1914 but I haven't found him for certain yet.

I hope I haven't overloaded you with useless information and look forward to your reply even if it's negative. (Thumb) 

Cheers


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## Clem

That is an interesting history you have there, lets hope Robert Gouldsbrough crops up as an owner of a Grimsby fishing smack around that time. Then perhaps this would help confirm the vessel your relative worked on.

Regards

Clem


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## mattarosa

I'm happy to see this thread as this is an interest of mine.

I've collected quite a bit of information about Grimsby fishing vessels and it's mostly unsorted "somewhere on my computer". I'll try to dig anything relevant out as this thread develops and see if I can contribute something useful sometime.

Hilary


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## Clem

Hi Hilary, welcome to SN and this thread in particular. If you have any info/pictures regarding the particular ships in post #9 of this thread, I'd be grateful.

How did your interest in GY trawlers develop, do you have any connections with the industry?

Regards

Clem


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## mattarosa

Clem said:


> Hi everyone, here is a list of vessels I'm currently researching.
> 
> GY65	Lancer
> 
> I assume this is the trawler that was supposedly spying on the Soviets between 1949 and 1954. If so, there is a 'log' here:
> 
> http://www.offmsg.connectfree.co.uk/mainpage.htm
> 
> I've used the quotation marks because I don't know whether it is genuine or not, not because I have a view either way. I don't know enough to be anything but open minded.
> 
> Hilary


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## mattarosa

Clem said:


> Hi everyone, here is a list of vessels I'm currently researching. So if anyone reading this has any information of any kind relating to these vessels (including pics), please let me know by posting here or by PM.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Clem
> 
> GY110	Northern Princess
> 
> The following is from The Times of Friday, Nov 18, 1960, page 10 under the heading TELEGRAMS IN BRIEF:
> 
> OSLO - The Grimsby trawler Northern Princess, grounded near Tromso since Monday, was refloated by the Norwegian salvage vessel Uller.
> 
> 
> Is this sort of information of interest? I love to read about everything that happened - strange catches, groundings etc etc, but it may not interest everyone!
> 
> Hilary


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## mattarosa

How did your interest in GY trawlers develop, do you have any connections with the industry?


Hi Clem
Absolutely none. Although my mother came from Grimsby, I live in London and the nearest I've ever got to the industry is the fish and chip shop. I think that's why I find it so interesting. I have a very unadventurous life doing a mundane office job.

I love research though and I'm an avid collector of useless information. Maybe some of it might actually be useful to someone at last.

Hilary


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## Clem

mattarosa said:


> Is this sort of information of interest?


Any, and all Hilary. I'm aware of the diary kept by the Radio Officer (Al Bowles) on the Lancer. A relative of mine was deckhand on her from October 1950. He was unaware of any covert activity going on but, remembers they received lots of 'attention' from Soviet gunboats by their presence in those waters.

The same relative also worked on the Northern Princess, albeit sometime before her grounding which I was unaware of. Thanks for bringing this to my attention.

Clem


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## mattarosa

Spurs GY148

I'm not sure if this is the right Spurs. GY148 was in Olsens of 1953 but there was another Spurs GY697 in Olsens of 1974 and this relates to 1961 but I'm sure someone on here will know. Anyway, another grounding from the Times.

Times, Friday March 17, page 11

REYKJAVIK - The Grimsby trawler Spurs (399 tons) grounded in Dyrafjordur Bay, north-west Iceland, was pulled afloat by the Icelandic freighter Tungufoss (1,176 tons) and another Grimsby trawler, the Viviana (455 tons).


Phew! Icelandic spelling tests must be a lot harder than English ones.


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## Clem

This would have been GY148 Spurs (Consols), she was scrapped in April 1962. GY697, of the same name (Wendover Steam Fishing), was built in July of 1962.

That's great, thanks.


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## mattarosa

GY190 Northern Spray

I have a few items on the Nothern Spray from the Times (I do have other info than Times info, but everything I have found so far that is on your list is Times info):

Times, Thursday Jan 21, 1937 Pg 9
RESCUES FROM DROWNING
ROYAL HUMANE SOCIETY AWARDS

The silver medal of the Royal Humane Society was awarded at a recent meeting of the society to Ernest Hill, 28, a dock hand, of Radcliffe Road, Fleetwood, who, on November 8, 1936, saved Harold Daniels, 18, a dockhand, of Victoria Street, Fleetwood, when he caught his foot in a rope on board the steam trawler Northern Spray and fell into the sea off Patrixfjord, Iceland. Hill dived in in full fishing kit, and supported Daniels, who was collapsed, until both men were hauled to safety after considerable difficulty.
_______________________________________________

It does say 'dockhands' but from the context I would think they were more likely to be deckhands.

More to follow later.


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## mattarosa

GY190 Northern Spray

Times, Saturday Oct 21, 1961, pg 4

TRAWLERMEN REFUSE TO SAIL
GRIMSBY, OCT 20
Dissatisfaction among members of the United Fishermen's Union at Grimsby confined trawlers to the port today. Some of the crews refused to sail because they said the vessels were understaffed or had non-union men on board.
The main dispute is concerned with the trawler Northern Spray, from which eight men have been suspended by the owners, Northern Trawlers Ltd. This vessel, together with three others, has been tied up in dock and union officials say they will remain idle until the suspended men are reinstated.

Times, Monday Oct 23, 1961 pg 6
TRAWLER DISPUTE ENDS
GRIMSBY, Oct 22
Eight Grimsby fishermen, who were suspended by Northern Trawlers Ltd, after refusing to sail in the firm's trawler Northern Spray, because their union was not recognized, have been reinstated. The crews of three other vessels who struck in sympathy have agreed to go back to sea. A settlement was reached yesterday after a meeting between the Grimsby Trawler Owners' Associaton and Mr John Butt, manager of Northern Trawlers Ltd, which was followed by discussions between Mr Butt and Skipper C.W.A. Chapple and Mr Peter Ireland, president and secretary respectively of the United Fishermen's Union, to which the eight suspended men belong.


I think I've got one more, but have to go and have my hair cut now!


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## mattarosa

john shaw said:


> Clem
> 
> re trawlers you are currently researching:
> 
> my wife (she of the pic of the Lacerta) has a limited edition print by an artist, Adrian Thompson, called "The Call of the Sea".
> 
> Your wife has excellent taste!
> 
> I also have this lovely print and mine is not in a frame, but it is too big for my scanner. If you (or your wife) don't fancy taking it out into the garden, I could have a go at photographing it.
> 
> There is actually a picture of The Call of the Sea, though not a brilliant one, on this website:
> 
> http://www.visitgrimsby.co.uk/origins.htm
> 
> Hilary


----------



## mattarosa

Clem said:


> Starting with *GY280 Mildenhall*, I have not yet discovered how she was lost and, I don't have an image of her. If anyone knows, please post.
> 
> Clem
> I have a report on the loss of the Mildenhall. It is an Acrobat file. But I don't know the house rules here. Can I post an attachment and if so, how?
> 
> I also have a picture, though a poor one. Not sure how to upload that either.
> 
> Sorry to be pathetic. Must be the haircut.
> 
> Hilary


----------



## mattarosa

Clem said:


> GY190	Northern Spray
> 
> BRITISH SKIPPER FINED IN ICELAND
> REYKJAVIK, Oct 27
> Dennis Pougher, skipper of the Hull trawler Peter Cheyney, was today fined 300.000 kronur (about £2,500) for fishing inside Icelandic waters. Pougher, who admitted the charge, told the court at Isafjordur, north-west Iceland, that his radar had broken down.
> The Peter Cheyney was arrested yesterday by the Icelandic gunboat Odinn after she had sailed from Isafjordur, where she had put ashore 20 shipwrecked seamen from the Grimsby trawler Northern Spray.


----------



## Clem

Great articles you're posting here Hilary. I know very little of the cir***stances surrounding the loss of the Spray.

Thanks for posting.

Clem


----------



## mattarosa

Clem said:


> GY280	Mildenhall
> 
> Clem
> I figured out how to attach, but my file is too big. I will gladly email it to you if you wish.
> 
> I have uploaded the picture, wish I had a better one.
> 
> Hilary


----------



## mattarosa

Clem said:


> GY280	Mildenhall
> 
> I found this picture advertised as Mildenhall Crew 1930s on my computer.
> 
> Hilary


----------



## Clem

*GY280 Mildenhall*

I think the photo of the Mildenhall and her crew from the 1930's is of GY124, built in April 1936 before being taken over by the Admiralty at the start of the war.

GY280 was ex. Drangey (built January 1935) till her name change to Mildenhall in March 1947.

This threw me for quite awhile (a few months ago) until I found that the owners H Croft Baker had two Mildenhalls!


----------



## Clem

Thanks for the report Hilary, I'll enjoy reading it over a malt!

Also the photo of the crew of *'the other'* Mildenhall (GY124) is very interesting. It might just be I had another relative on her as well! (*)) One of the crew certainly looks familar. Any chance you can email the full size photo to scrutinise?

Cheers

Clem


----------



## mattarosa

Clem said:


> GY280	Mildenhall
> 
> My last post of the evening. Two more references to Mildenhall.
> 
> Mildenhall
> 
> A stray mention in 1939 in connection with the loss of the Hull trawler St Sebastian:
> 
> The Times, Thursday, Mar 23, 1939; pg. 4
> 
> INQUIRY INTO LOSS OF TRAWLER
> VAIN ATTEMPTS AT RESCUE
> HULL, March 22
> 
> A Board of Trade inquiry was opened at Hull Law Courts yesterday into the stranding and total loss, with a crew of 16 men, of the Hull steam trawler St Sebastian on September 29 last on the coast of Bear Island in the Arctic Circle. The Wreck Commissioner, Mr J. G. Trapnell, K.C., was assisted by three nautical assessors.
> Mr E.M. P****y, for the Board of Trade, said that the vessel was homeward bound from the Bear Island fishing grounds when the accident occurred. He read out a series of wireless messages sent out by the St Sebastian when she struck the rocks, which were picked up by a number of vessels. The last of the messages was received in the early hours of the morning from the wireless operator of the St Sebastian in which he said that the chart-room was filling with water.
> Evidence was given by Skipper James Myers, of the steam trawler Cape Duner, who said that he and five other trawlers attempted to get near the wreck, but the seas were so heavy that he found it impossible. The witness with five of his crew attempted to land on the island from the leeward in the hope of rescuing any men who had got ashore, but they failed to reach the shore and the trawler Kingston Cairngorm picked up their boat and saved them. Eventually a party of 10 from his vessel and the trawler Davy landed at another point. They found the wrecked trawler being pounded by heavy seas, but could see no sign of life.
> Skipper R. H. Broomhead, of the Grimsby trawler Mildenhall, gave evidence that he reached the scene the following day and while watching the ship for any signs of life saw her break in two.
> 
> ---------------------------------------------
> 
> The Times, Wednesday, Nov 03, 1948; pg. 3
> 
> BRITISH TRAWLER LOST IN ARCTIC
> Lloyd's agent at Tromso reported yesterday: A wireless message from H.M.S. Romola reports that the British steam trawler Mildenhall has gone aground south-west of Cape Nyemetsky. The vessel is a total loss, but the entire crew of 21 have been saved and will be landed at Tromso.


----------



## john shaw

mattarosa said:


> john shaw said:
> 
> 
> 
> Clem
> 
> re trawlers you are currently researching:
> 
> my wife (she of the pic of the Lacerta) has a limited edition print by an artist, Adrian Thompson, called "The Call of the Sea".
> 
> Your wife has excellent taste!
> 
> I also have this lovely print and mine is not in a frame, but it is too big for my scanner. If you (or your wife) don't fancy taking it out into the garden, I could have a go at photographing it.
> 
> There is actually a picture of The Call of the Sea, though not a brilliant one, on this website:
> 
> http://www.visitgrimsby.co.uk/origins.htm
> 
> Hilary
> 
> 
> 
> Hilary-- yes,that is indeed the same picture-- I will try to photograph tomorrow for Clem,but if it does not succeed perhaps you would also do it- I'll report back! Thanks
Click to expand...


----------



## mattarosa

[QUOTE=

Mr E.M. P****y, for the Board of Trade

Oh dear, if the BoT man's name is important to anyone, they'll have to figure it out or email me.


----------



## Clem

Thanks John, look forward to seeing the print.

Hilary, great job with your contributions today, hope you carry on finding these little gems.

Good Night.

Clem


----------



## mattarosa

Clem said:


> GY204	Northern Gem
> 
> I'm pretty sure you must be aware of the book Coxswain in the Northern Convoys by Sid Kerslake. For anyone that isn't, it is online at Naval-History.net:
> 
> http://www.naval-history.net/WW2Memoir-RussianConvoyCoxswain.htm
> 
> There are quite some references to Northern Spray in it, as well.
> 
> Here's a little item from the Times on the Gem:
> 
> The Times, Wednesday, May 13, 1953; pg. 8
> 
> GRIMSBY CATCH LANDED IN HOLLAND
> The Grimsby trawler Northern Gem, which landed 33,000 stones of fish at Ijmuiden, Holland, on Monday, was making an experiment, the owners said yesterday. "Rather than let our ships lay up I would prefer that they land their catches on the Continent," said a spokesman of the firm. "It does seem fatuous that German ships should discharge at Grimsby while we send vessels to Holland, but it is preferable to laying up ships."
> 
> By the way, someone mentioned in a post about the Grimsby Telegraph having pictures. Their archives are online so it is easy to check whether they hold a picture of a particular trawler or not. I am guessing everyone with an interest in Grimsby trawlers already knows this, but I can post the URL if anyone needs it.
> 
> Hilary


----------



## mattarosa

Northern Dawn GY289

There is a really good picture of Northern Dawn here:

http://www.photos.is/gallery2/search.php?searchstring=northern+dawn

A small item from the Times:

The Times, Wednesday, Oct 29, 1958; pg. 9

HAMMERFEST, NORWAY - Firemen here worked through the night to put out a fire in the bunkers of the 620-ton Grimsby trawler Northern Dawn. Damage was not extensive.


----------



## mattarosa

Here is a pic of Boston Valetta GY333


----------



## mattarosa

Taipo GY389

The Times, Saturday, Mar 15, 1947; pg. 2

STEAMER DESTROYED BY FIRE
The steamer Empire Jonquil, 369 tons, was destroyed by fire in the North Sea, 40 miles off the Humber, early on Thursday morning. Four of the crew were lost, and four others were landed yesterday by the trawler Taipo.
The Empire Jonquil was bound from Jarrow to Chatham with coke when she caught fire. The four members of the crew who lost their lives were Skipper S.C. Whisker (Middlesbrough), Chief Engineer Hugh Murphy (Ellesmere Port), A.B. Charlie Stott (Stonehaven) and John Hall, aged 16 (Middlesbrough).


----------



## mattarosa

Lifeguard GY395

The Times, Thursday, Jul 07, 1960; pg. 12

ROYAL NAVY FOILS ICELAND GUNBOAT
REYKJAVIK, July 6 - The British destroyer Palliser intervened to prevent the Icelandic gunboat Thor from arresting the Grimsby trawler Lifeguard off Iceland during the night, it was reported here today.
The three ships waited all night pending orders to the destroyer from the British Admiralty. Late today the Palliser informed the Thor that she would not allow the arrest as the trawler had been fishing on the high seas, and not inside the four-mile limit and 12-mile limit as the Thor had alleged. The Lifeguard then sailed for home, and the Thor abandoned the chase.

(news of the Northern Spray as well as the Lifeguard in the following item):

The Times, Friday, Oct 25, 1963; pg. 10

£2,150 ICELAND FINE ON TRAWLER
REYKJAVIK, ICELAND, Oct 24 - Mr Oleson, skipper of the Grimsby trawler Lifeguard (668 tons), was fined 160,000 kronur (about £2,150) today on a charge of fishing inside Iceland's 12-mile limit. The Lifeguard was escorted into port by a fishery inspection vessel on Monday after the escort vessel fired a shot across her bows.
Isafjordur police court ordered confiscation of the trawler's catch and equipment. Mr Oleson told the court he lost his trawl while outside the limit and was trying to get it back.
Meanwhile, the Icelandic coastguard vessel Odinn today attempted to salve the Grimsby trawler Northern Spray (620 tons) whose crew of 20 men were rescused yesterday when the vessel ran aground in Isafjordur Bay in a storm.
Another British trawler, the James Barrie (666 tons) shot a rescue line across to the stranded vessel, hauling to safety eight crew members in a lifeboat. The Odinn rescued the rest of the crew.

Picture of Lifeguard attached.

That's all for now. Got a ceiling to paint.

Hilary


----------



## Clem

Great posts Hilary. They add up to a very interesting read, thanks for kick starting this thread and if you have any more nuggets, please carry on posting. I'd rather be reading these than painting any ceiling!

Clem


----------



## mattarosa

Clem said:


> Great posts Hilary. They add up to a very interesting read, thanks for kick starting this thread and if you have any more nuggets, please carry on posting. I'd rather be reading these than painting any ceiling!
> 
> Clem


Me too, but it had to be done. 

I'll keep on trawling (!) through my files to see what I have, but I thought I would post a list of the trawlers I'm particularly interested in, just in case anyone has any info.

GY328 Edwardian
GY696 Sheldon
GY369 Curtana
GY365 Etrurian
GY284 Hammond
??? Sindonis
GY375 Equerry
GY1017 Kastoria
GY350 Staunton
GY924 Unitia
GY630 Nairana
GY759 Lord Northcliffe
GY440 Northern Sun
GY466 Vendora
GY1037 War Duke 

Thanks
Hilary


----------



## mattarosa

Northern Sun GY440

The Times, Wednesday, Feb 14, 1962; pg. 9

FATAL ACCIDENT IN GRIMSBY TRAWLER
OSLO, Feb 13

The first officer of the Grimsby trawler Northern Sun, Mr Roy Ferrand, was killed and the skipper, Mr George Lively, was badly injured in an accident off the coast of Norway last Sunday. The trawler sailed to Harstad and the skipper was taken to hospital, where he had an arm amputated.
The ship is on her way back to Grimsby with the body of the first officer. Both the captain and the first officer come from Grimsby.


----------



## mattarosa

Port Vale

I think there may have been more than one Port Vale, but here goes on what I have:

The Times, Monday, Oct 28, 1974; pg. 1

BRITISH TRAWLER'S CREW RESCUE
Reykjavic, Oct 27 - All 18 men on board the Grimsby trawler Port Vale were rescued after their vessel ran aground off the east coast of Iceland in a gale last night.
The rescue was made by an Icelandic rescue team. Its leader said the weather had been terrible, with a dangerous surf.

The Times, Wednesday, Dec 03, 1975; pg. 6

ICELANDERS FORCE LONE SKIPPER BACK TO FLEET
From MIchael Horsnell 
On board the support ship Miranda off south-east Iceland, Dec 2
The Grimsby trawler Port Vale was escorted from the North Cape of Iceland by the Icelandic coastguard vessel Ardvakur today after her trawl had been cut.
The Ardvakur, a small armed tender, stole up in darkness on the Port Vale while she was within the 50-mile limit; the coastguard ship pretended to be a trawler by carrying a trawl light on her mast.
The trawl cutting ws the price paid by her skipper, Mr John Rimmer, for refusing to join the main British trawler fleet off south-east Iceland.
For several days the Port Vale had fished alone and unprotected off the north-west coast more than 200 miles from the safety box designated by Mr Taff Davis, the commander of the British Goverment's defence ship Star Aquarius. 
Tonight the Port Vale was heading for the main fleet where 49 trawleres had been fishing safely.
Before the trawl-cutting incident she had been constantly harassed by angry Icelandic fishermen. It was the first trawl-cutting incident since early last week when the trawler William Wilberforce suffiered a similar fate.
The British operations off the south-east coast have been deterring the Icelandic gunboats, though one Icelandic trawler, with Nordic bravado, sailed across the bows of the ocean-going defence tug Lloydsman and the Government support ship Miranda just before midday.
Frigate withdrawn: HMS Leopard, the first of three Royal Navy frigates sent to protect British trawlers fishing off Iceland, has been withdrawn and is to pay a courtesy visit to Grimsby on Thursday before returning to her home base of Portsmouth.


----------



## mattarosa

GY664 Lemberg

The Times, Tuesday, Sep 14, 1937; pg. 11

A storm during the week-end damaged enough apples to fill 150,000 barrells, about one-tenth of the Nova Scotian crop, and wrecked the trawler Lemberg on Sable Island. Her crew were rescued. Communications have been much disruped by the gale.

Not sure if this is the right Lemberg. I've seen a picture of a Lemberg on Redcar rocks. How many times could one trawler get wrecked?


----------



## mattarosa

Northern Sky GY427

The Times, Wednesday, Aug 13, 1958

BRITISH SKIPPER FINED £2,200
REYKJAVIC, Aug 12 - Alf Kissack, skipper of the Grimsby trawler Northern Sky (620 tons), was today fined 100,000 Icelandic kronor (about £2,200) in a magistrate's court at Seydisfjord, East Iceland on fishery charges. He was also ordered to pay the equivalent of about £700 costs. Fishing gear valued at £1800 and a catch of fish valued at £240 were confiscated.
Kissack was charged with fishing inside Icelandic territorial waters. There was also a charge relating to the size of the msh of the trawler's nets. The court said the fine was larger than usual because of the skipper's behaviour towards the officers of an Icelandic gunboat.
It was stated that the trawler would be allowed to sail from Seydisfjord later tonight. She was intercepted by the gunboat Odin [sic] on Sunday.


----------



## trotterdotpom

mattarosa said:


> Port Vale
> 
> I think there may have been more than one Port Vale, but here goes on what I have:
> 
> The Times, Monday, Oct 28, 1974; pg. 1
> 
> BRITISH TRAWLER'S CREW RESCUE
> Reykjavic, Oct 27 - All 18 men on board the Grimsby trawler Port Vale were rescued after their vessel ran aground off the east coast of Iceland in a gale last night.
> The rescue was made by an Icelandic rescue team. Its leader said the weather had been terrible, with a dangerous surf....QUOTE]
> 
> Here's a picture of "Port Vale" aground in Iceland. She is the same "Port Vale" I sailed on in 1968. Photo by courtesy of www.arcticcorsair.f9.co.uk
> 
> John T.


----------



## Clem

*GY484 Port Vale*



trotterdotpom said:


> Here's a picture of "Port Vale" aground in Iceland. She is the same "Port Vale" I sailed on in 1968. Photo by courtesy of www.arcticcorsair.f9.co.uk
> 
> John T.


Hi John, nice to hear from someone who worked on her. GY484 Port Vale is, to my knowledge, the only Grimsby ship of this name. You probably already know she was built in October 1957 by the Goole Ship Building & Repair Co. Ltd. in Goole for Consols subsidiary Wendover Steam Fishing Co. 

Colne Shipping Co. (Lowestoft) purchased her in June 1978. She became LT309, and went on to standby duties in 1981 before being sold for scrap on 07/01/87.

Can you tell us a little about your time on the Port Vale? My uncle, was Mate on her in 1962 fishing off the Faeroe's.

Regards

Clem


----------



## daveb

*John Monger*

hi not sure how this works, i am trying to gather info on my grandfather John Monger of 33 Carr lane CleEthorps. He was the captain of various fishing trawlers sailing out of Grimsby. he received and M.B.E and an D.S.C and was at both Dunkirk and Normandy. i cannot find his trawlers name which was converted to a mine sweeper and went up as far as ark-angle and Murmansk (please excuse the spelling). i would also like to find out what were the reasons if any for the awards or did everyone get them. Many thanks i hope i find some answer here.


----------



## treeve

Have you had a look through the Dunkirk "little ships" website?
http://www.adls.org.uk/


----------



## trotterdotpom

*Skipper John Monger*

Dave,

On the Grimsby trawler website "Sidewinder", currently being rebuilt after some technical problems, there is a section on Grimsby Skippers. John C. Monger is mentioned as Skipper of "Ernest Holt", but no other information. See http://www.embark.to/sidewinder. The site belongs to Ray Richardson and he may be able to help you further. 

Another site that may be of interest is "Harry Tates Navy" (Google will find it) - lots of information about requisitioned trawlers in WW2 and fishermen who ended up in the RN.

Good luck.

John T.


----------



## Clem

Hi Dave, you can also try this link. It may help also it has a forum where you may pick up some info.

Regards

Clem 

Records of Service in Royal Navy - For Service 3rd September 1939 to Present Day 


Pay, Pensions and Personnel Administration
AFPAA (Centurion)
RN Records and DPA 
Room 086
Centurion Building 
Grange Road 
Gosport
Hants PO13 9XA 

Tel. 023 9270 2174 Fax.023 9270 2211

http://www.harry-tates.org.uk/


----------



## trotterdotpom

Dave, 

I asked my old boss and trawler guru, Barney Warman about "Ernest Holt" and here's what he said:

"Oh yes the Ernest Holt was a nice looking trawler, something like the St Amante class but she was just for the White Fish Authority, didnt land catches and that sort of thing, just went around the various grounds checking the water temps and that sort of thing, probably the odd haul to see if there was fish at certain places. You never saw her in the fish dock alwayus in the Royal dock"

She must have been a research ship - wonder if there are any photos about?

John T.


----------



## Clem

*GY591 Ernest Holt*

Here's a couple photos of GY591 Ernest Holt. She was built for M.A.F.F. in December 1948 by Cochrane's of Selby. She worked out of Grimsby and Leith in her capacity as a Fisheries Research Vessel. I have record of her going to Lowestoft in March 1971.

Clem


----------



## trotterdotpom

Thanks, Clem - fast as a farting snake as they say down here. It's true she was a handsome vessel.

John T.


----------



## daveb

*Ernest Holt*

There we go December 1948 captain on her maden voiage E.R.Ingham from Burnley and her fishing skipper was J.C.Monger my Grandfather, have a puplication and photo from Grimsby telegraph Jan 16 2006. She was a research ship and was alway moored at the Royal dock. what i am realy interested in are the war years when fishing vessels were converted to mine sweepers. etc etc which ship did he captain both to Dunkurk and Normandy.

cheers

Dave


----------



## Clem

daveb said:


> what i am realy interested in are the war years when fishing vessels were converted to mine sweepers. etc etc which ship did he captain both to Dunkurk and Normandy.
> 
> cheers
> 
> Dave


That could be difficult without accessing your grandfathers service records. When did he receive his DSC and MBE? You could search The London Gazette for these awards, maybe mention is made of his ship/ships.

Clem


----------



## daveb

Thanks for the help am will try the other sites and let you know how i get on!!!


----------



## Nelson

*Grimsby Trawlers.*

Hi Clem,
Very interesting to see this new thread. In late `60s I worked for a while for Ross Trawlers in Grimsby, as R/O, sailing on the Ross Kandahar, and the Ross Jupiter. The Kandahar was Icelandic fishing, and the Jupiter middle water, i.e. Faeroes. I`d been deep sea since going to sea, and life on these vessels was a real eye-opener. At the time, I was living in N.Wales, so you can imagine the struggle to get home, have a couple of nights at home, and then back to GY for sailing after 3 days ashore. It was all too much in the end, so I got a job in Fleetwood, firstly with Hewett trawlers, and then with Wyres. Getting too and from Fleetwood only took about 4 hours, which was much easier.


----------



## Clem

*GY123 Ross Kandahar*



Nelson said:


> Hi Clem,
> Very interesting to see this new thread. In late `60s I worked for a while for Ross Trawlers in Grimsby, as R/O, sailing on the Ross Kandahar, and the Ross Jupiter. The Kandahar was Icelandic fishing, and the Jupiter middle water, i.e. Faeroes. I`d been deep sea since going to sea, and life on these vessels was a real eye-opener. At the time, I was living in N.Wales, so you can imagine the struggle to get home, have a couple of nights at home, and then back to GY for sailing after 3 days ashore. It was all too much in the end, so I got a job in Fleetwood, firstly with Hewett trawlers, and then with Wyres. Getting too and from Fleetwood only took about 4 hours, which was much easier.


Hi Nelson, did you ever work with skipper Barry Jacklin on the Kandahar? He had her for three trips from the beginning of '69 (all Icelandic trips), before having the Kashmir for over a dozen trips. He also skippered the Kelly, Kelvin, Khartoum and Ross's Archer.

You must have spent most of your time ashore travelling between GY and your home! I can understand how Fleetwood suited you better. How did fishing in Fleetwood compare to Grimsby?

Regards

Clem


----------



## fishdockroad

*John Burlingham 1917*

Hi everyone,

anyone have any info on what I believe was a Grimsby vessel??? The John Burlingham. Her Ships bell is at auction tommorow morning and I'm struggling to confirm either way her origin. I have numerous reference books regarding Grimsby but would love a definitive list of all the trawlers that sailed out of much loved port. Is there such a list??? he bell is engraved John Burlingham 1917. No mention of Grimsby is this the norm? I always understood that the ships bell was engraved with the name and its port. Any info would be greatly appreciated either on the afore mentioned ship or as to were I can find more info on the numerous companies etc.


----------



## Clem

*GY829 John Burlingham*

Hi F.D.R. Here's some info. regarding GY829 John Burlingham/Rehearo

Official Number: 143801 
Port of Registry: Grimsby
Number: GY829 
Name: John Burlingham
Callsign: n/k 
Type: Steam Trawler	
Built: 07/1917 
By: Cook Welton & Gemmell Ltd. Beverly
Gross Tonnage: 266 
Net Tonnage: 105
Length: 125.2 ft.
Beam: 22 ft. 
Draught: 12.2 ft.
(Note: Measurements are in Feet and Tenths of Feet)
Engines: T. 3 cy. 62 RHP
By: Amos & Smith Ltd. Hull
Owner: G.F. Sleight 
Comments: Built for the Admiralty as ‘Non Standard’ (hull) Castle Class minesweeper; Armament 1-12pdr 1-Bomb Thrower; Owners 1/1920 Sir G.F. Sleight (4/20 Renamed Rehearo); 11/33 G.F. Sleight & R.L. Humphreys; Admiralty Service 9/40 Minesweeper Returned 12/45 or 1/46; 5/49 G.F. Sleight & Sons 
Fate: Scrapped 1961


For a pretty complete list Grimsby side trawlers try to find a copy of this:

'The Steam Trawlers and Liners of Grimsby' by Charles B. Cox ISBN 0 9513927 4 3

The author also published a catalogue of Grimsby fishing smacks.

Will you be at the auction, if so, would it be possible to get a photo of the ships bell?

Cheers

Clem


----------



## birgir

Hello.

I have not figured out yet, how to operate on such message boards, so this is the first attempt. 

The Esther, (smack to the english, "kutter" to the Icelandic, and "Slup" to the Faroese.) was first registered in Iceland under the strange name "Grimsby Ice Company", or G.I.C. It belonged to a company in Seydisfjordur, called "Gardar" which was controlled by the British Hewett or Hewitt family. 

Second enquiry. From about 1910 the Grimsby shipowner Alec Black had a number of trawlers registered in Thorshavn, the Faroe Islands as property of a certain Christian Evensen. Does anybody have any information about this.


----------



## Clem

*GY157 G.I.C./Esther*

Hi Birgir, I'll have a look in some books to see if I can come up with some info. for you.

Could this, GY157 GIC, be the Esther?

Clem

<Edit: This photograph appears to be GY152 Sea King or Frolic>


----------



## fishdockroad

*John Burlingham 1917*

Thanks Clem,

i think thats the book they always use out when I go to the reference library i'll try to get hold of a copy. I'm going to the auction now so will try to get a photo of the bell, if i can keep up with the bidding and am lucky enough to buy the bell i'll definatly send you a photo. Fingers crossed.

Fishdockroad


----------



## Clem

FDR, if you live in or near Grimsby, I think the Library used to sell them but they could be out of print now.


----------



## fishdockroad

*John Burlingham 1917*

Hi Clem,

I got the Bell. I'm absolutly delighted I'll post some photos asap. I checked with the library at Gy but they dont have any copies left.

Thanks for all your help.

FDR


----------



## Clem

Congratulations, look forward to seeing the photos.

Clem


----------



## mattarosa

glenn said:


> Silver Stream GY 386 Burnt out during refit towed to New Holland for scrap see my gallery for pics


What sort of trawler is Silver Stream, please? It's an odd looking thing!


----------



## mattarosa

*The Call of the Sea*



john shaw said:


> Hilary-- yes,that is indeed the same picture-- I will try to photograph tomorrow for Clem,but if it does not succeed perhaps you would also do it- I'll report back! Thanks


Remember John drawing attention to the print called The Call of the Sea last week? The artist is selling prints of it on ebay £5.99 post free. I'm not on commission or anything, just thought you might be interested. 

There is another called Northern's Pride, which is of Northern Pride and Northern Duke.

Hilary


----------



## mattarosa

fishdockroad said:


> Hi Clem,
> 
> I got the Bell. I'm absolutly delighted I'll post some photos asap. I checked with the library at Gy but they dont have any copies left.
> 
> Thanks for all your help.
> 
> FDR


I just wanted to say congratulations on your purchase, I think it's brilliant how things get "rescued" by enthusiasts. If not for that, everything would be gone.

Clem - was the Rehearo actually originally registered at Grimsby under the name John Burlingham? I haven't got that one on my list, so perhaps I should add it.


----------



## birgir

Clem said:


> Hi Birgir, I'll have a look in some books to see if I can come up with some info. for you.
> 
> Could this, GY152 GIC, be the Esther?
> 
> Clem


HI Clem.

Unfortunately, the general characteristics of the smacks/kutters is such that it is very difficult to say whether two pictures are of the same ship, or different ones. 

Esther is best known in Iceland for the rescue of the crews of 4 open fishing boats, 38 men, on march 24. 1916. She was sold to the Faroese in 1924.

Birgir


----------



## Clem

mattarosa said:


> Clem - was the Rehearo actually originally registered at Grimsby under the name John Burlingham? I haven't got that one on my list, so perhaps I should add it.


Hi Hilary, it does seem that way. She was registered at Grimsby in January 1920 but, not renamed until April of that year.


----------



## Clem

birgir said:


> HI Clem.
> 
> Unfortunately, the general characteristics of the smacks/kutters is such that it is very difficult to say whether two pictures are of the same ship, or different ones.
> 
> Esther is best known in Iceland for the rescue of the crews of 4 open fishing boats, 38 men, on march 24. 1916. She was sold to the Faroese in 1924.
> 
> Birgir


Thanks for that. When I visit a friend I'll check his books to see if there was more than one G.I.C. The year 1916 helps.

Were the crews of these four boats line fishing?

Clem


----------



## fishdockroad

mattarosa said:


> I just wanted to say congratulations on your purchase, I think it's brilliant how things get "rescued" by enthusiasts. If not for that, everything would be gone.
> 
> Clem - was the Rehearo actually originally registered at Grimsby under the name John Burlingham? I haven't got that one on my list, so perhaps I should add it.


 Thanks for that, have now posted a photo.


----------



## fishdockroad

*John Burlingham 1917*

Hi all,

hopefully I've managed to post a photo of the bell. I'm new to this forum and just have to say that I think its great. Obviously a lot of knowledgable people out there. The posts have raised a few questions mind. If the John Burlingham was'nt registered in Grimsby until 1920 where was it registered up until that date? 

Did the number GY829 stay with the ship when she was renamed? And why did they rename them?

And finally the biggest question of all for myself at the moment is who was John Burlingham?? 

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Fishdockroad


----------



## mattarosa

fishdockroad said:


> Hi all,
> 
> >hopefully I've managed to post a photo of the bell.
> 
> >And finally the biggest question of all for myself at the moment is who was >John Burlingham??
> 
> The bell is brilliant, I am envious. Where are you going to put it?
> 
> Over 500 trawlers were built for the Admiralty during the First World War as part of a programme to replace fishing trawlers that had been requisitioned for minesweeping, and lost. The vessels under this programme were named after the crew of the HMS Victory and the HMS Royal Sovereign at the time of the Battle of Trafalgar.
> 
> I don't know whether the John Burlingham was one of these, but it was built in 1917, so I think it is quite possible it was.
> 
> Hilary


----------



## mattarosa

*Stockholm*

There is a picture for sale on ebay, the description of which says it is 
GY15 Stockholm.

Is there such a trawler? Does anyone have any details?

This is another (of many!) not on my list.

Thanks
Hilary


----------



## Clem

*GY829 John Burlingham/Rehearo*



fishdockroad said:


> Hi all,
> 
> hopefully I've managed to post a photo of the bell. I'm new to this forum and just have to say that I think its great. Obviously a lot of knowledgable people out there. The posts have raised a few questions mind. If the John Burlingham was'nt registered in Grimsby until 1920 where was it registered up until that date?
> 
> Did the number GY829 stay with the ship when she was renamed? And why did they rename them?
> 
> And finally the biggest question of all for myself at the moment is who was John Burlingham??
> 
> Any help would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> Fishdockroad


Hi FDR, Great photo of a piece of Grimsby's maritime past. Where do you plan to keep it?

In answer to your question, it looks like she was GY829 all her time in GY till being scrapped.

From what I can see. She was launched in 1917, it looks like she was 'Admiralty' until her sale to Grimsby in 1920. However, in a book I have, it says, 'The above trawlers at the date of purchase [by the Admiralty?] were completing for their normal task of fishing.' I don't know what this implies. 

Could the Admiralty's requirement for minesweepers have changed?

Cheers

Clem


----------



## Clem

*Stockholm/Stockham?*



mattarosa said:


> There is a picture for sale on ebay, the description of which says it is
> GY15 Stockholm.
> 
> Is there such a trawler? Does anyone have any details?
> 
> This is another (of many!) not on my list.
> 
> Thanks
> Hilary


Hi Hilary, two *Stockhams* I'm aware of. GY89 Stockham, ex. Kingston Peridot, built in 1929.

GY19 Stockham built 1949. Sister ship to GY85 Laforey, which was lost with all hands in 1954. Skipper Bill Mogg of the Laforey was one of my relative's first deep sea skipper in the 1940's, he thought very highly of skipper Mogg. The same relative also worked on the Stockham prior to her sister ships loss. He never thought much of the Stockham, not a good sea boat.

Maybe GY15 Stockholm should read GY19 Stockham? Do you have a thumbnail of the photo on offer?

Cheers

Clem


----------



## trotterdotpom

Clem said:


> Hi John, nice to hear from someone who worked on her. GY484 Port Vale is, to my knowledge, the only Grimsby ship of this name. You probably already know she was built in October 1957 by the Goole Ship Building & Repair Co. Ltd. in Goole for Consols subsidiary Wendover Steam Fishing Co.
> 
> Colne Shipping Co. (Lowestoft) purchased her in June 1978. She became LT309, and went on to standby duties in 1981 before being sold for scrap on 07/01/87.
> 
> Can you tell us a little about your time on the Port Vale? My uncle, was Mate on her in 1962 fishing off the Faeroe's.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Clem


I did three trips to Iceland in Port Vale in 1969. Pretty sure the Skipper was Bill Hardie Jr ( known as "Wiggy") - a whizz kid in his early 20s at the time.

The main thing that stands out in my mind is that she was one of, if not the, last distant water trawler in Grimsby without automatic steering. The deckies refused to sail without it and the company hastily installed a mickey mouse system which operated from the magnetic compass - details very hazy now.

I have a great picture of the ship, painted by Steve Farrow, which, along with others in his collection, was available at the Fishing Museum, Grimsby.

John T.


----------



## mattarosa

Clem said:


> Maybe GY15 Stockholm should read GY19 Stockham? Do you have a thumbnail of the photo on offer?
> 
> Clem
> Now why didn't I think of that?
> 
> Now attached.
> 
> Hilary


----------



## daveb

*J.C.Monger*

Hi again, still struggling to get info but having looked at web sites suggested here i can only find him as skipper of Ernest Holt he was on it from its maiden voyage till he retired. I Have two other ship names so maybe you guys can help. i am not sure if these were there operational names during the war? they were the Recono and Red sky. can you help?


----------



## Clem

*Port Vale*



trotterdotpom said:


> I did three trips to Iceland in Port Vale in 1969. Pretty sure the Skipper was Bill Hardie Jr ( known as "Wiggy") - a whizz kid in his early 20s at the time.
> 
> The main thing that stands out in my mind is that she was one of, if not the, last distant water trawler in Grimsby without automatic steering. The deckies refused to sail without it and the company hastily installed a mickey mouse system which operated from the magnetic compass - details very hazy now.
> 
> I have a great picture of the ship, painted by Steve Farrow, which, along with others in his collection, was available at the Fishing Museum, Grimsby.
> 
> John T.


Automatic Pilot, beats a rope beckett on the wheel.

Can you post a photo of the painting? It'd be nice to see.

Cheers

Clem


----------



## trotterdotpom

Clem said:


> Automatic Pilot, beats a rope beckett on the wheel.
> 
> Can you post a photo of the painting? It'd be nice to see.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Clem


I'll see if I can get a scan done of it somewhere (is that legal?).

By the way, in those days Port Vale were in the 4th Division - did you ever play against them, Malcolm?

John T.


----------



## fishdockroad

Clem said:


> Hi FDR, Great photo of a piece of Grimsby's maritime past. Where do you plan to keep it?
> 
> In answer to your question, it looks like she was GY829 all her time in GY till being scrapped.
> 
> From what I can see. She was launched in 1917, it looks like she was 'Admiralty' until her sale to Grimsby in 1920. However, in a book I have, it says, 'The above trawlers at the date of purchase [by the Admiralty?] were completing for their normal task of fishing.' I don't know what this implies.
> 
> Could the Admiralty's requirement for minesweepers have changed?
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Clem


 Thanks Clem,

the bells going to go in my kitchen i think. I've got a couple of other items with a direct grimsby link so i'll post some photos for all to view. One further question Clem if you dont mind 'do you know if the bell would have stayed with the ship when it was renamed? 

Fishdockroad


----------



## fishdockroad

mattarosa said:


> fishdockroad said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> >hopefully I've managed to post a photo of the bell.
> 
> >And finally the biggest question of all for myself at the moment is who was >John Burlingham??
> 
> The bell is brilliant, I am envious. Where are you going to put it?
> 
> Over 500 trawlers were built for the Admiralty during the First World War as part of a programme to replace fishing trawlers that had been requisitioned for minesweeping, and lost. The vessels under this programme were named after the crew of the HMS Victory and the HMS Royal Sovereign at the time of the Battle of Trafalgar.
> 
> I don't know whether the John Burlingham was one of these, but it was built in 1917, so I think it is quite possible it was.
> 
> Hilary
> 
> 
> 
> Hi Hilary,
> 
> thanks for the info. HMS victory's crew did indeed have a Burlingham though his first name is listed as being Jho ??? Possibly a misprint so i'll deve a little further.
> 
> The bell by the way is going in my kitchen, though I've been warned not to ring it again as I scared the cat and dog half to death.
> 
> Fishdockroad
Click to expand...


----------



## Clem

*GY625 Recono, GY591 Ernest Holt*



daveb said:


> Hi again, still struggling to get info but having looked at web sites suggested here i can only find him as skipper of Ernest Holt he was on it from its maiden voyage till he retired. I Have two other ship names so maybe you guys can help. i am not sure if these were there operational names during the war? they were the Recono and Red sky. can you help?


Hi Dave, GY625 Recono was built 9/15. Owned by Sleights until she was scrapped in 3/62, built by Cook Welton & Gemmell of Beverly. She served in both wars. A relative of mine also worked on her in 1953. When was your grandfather on her? I'm trying to find out if she was a 'bridge aft sider' (maybe built a bit late for that), any clues? I'll post some more detail of her later.

I can't find Red Sky in GY, but have 'Red Sky, Admiralty Wood Drifter, built 1918. She also served in WWII.

I’ve found another couple of photos of GY591 Ernest Holt. Can you see your grandfather?

Cheers Clem


----------



## Clem

*GY15 Stockholm or GY19 Stockham?*



mattarosa said:


> There is a picture for sale on ebay, the description of which says it is
> GY15 Stockholm.
> 
> Is there such a trawler? Does anyone have any details?
> 
> This is another (of many!) not on my list.
> 
> Thanks
> Hilary


Hi Hilary. If you compare your picture of 'GY15 Stockholm' with this one of GY19 Stockham, would you agree they probably the same ship? It seems to me the ebay source has mistaken the text.

Cheers

Clem


----------



## mattarosa

Clem said:


> Hi Hilary. If you compare your picture of 'GY15 Stockholm' with this one of GY19 Stockham, would you agree they probably the same ship? It seems to me the ebay source has mistaken the text.
> 
> Clem
> I think you are right. Thanks for looking.
> Hilary


----------



## mattarosa

fishdockroad said:


> HMS victory's crew did indeed have a Burlingham though his first name is listed as being Jho ??? Possibly a misprint so i'll deve a little further.
> 
> Could it be Jno? that's quite common in historical do***ents as an abbreviation for John - though it's not much shorter than the original name!


----------



## mattarosa

*John Burlingham*

According to the Official HMS Victory website

http://www.hms-victory.com/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=64&Itemid=67

it is Jno Burlingham who was English, age 20 and a Landsman (whatever that was).


----------



## mattarosa

*Landsman*

A Landsman is a person who has not been to sea before and has no experience of the Royal Navy. The Landsman was the lowest rank in the Royal Navy at that time.

(courtesy of Google)


----------



## daveb

*J.C.Monger*



Clem said:


> Hi Dave, GY625 Recono was built 9/15. Owned by Sleights until she was scrapped in 3/62, built by Cook Welton & Gemmell of Beverly. She served in both wars. A relative of mine also worked on her in 1953. When was your grandfather on her? I'm trying to find out if she was a 'bridge aft sider' (maybe built a bit late for that), any clues? I'll post some more detail of her later.
> 
> I can't find Red Sky in GY, but have 'Red Sky, Admiralty Wood Drifter, built 1918. She also served in WWII.
> 
> I’ve found another couple of photos of GY591 Ernest Holt. Can you see your grandfather?
> 
> Cheers Clem


Cool thanks he is picture 4th male from right just his head showing his wife is in fron to him in black dress i have sent to my mom to try and find out who the other people are. John Monger Retired from the Ernest Holt and was on her from her maden voyage in 1948 so i assume he was not on GY 625 at the same time but what do i know. My Grandfather passed away in 1987 at age 86. this is amazing i will try and find out more from my mom's sister who still lives in Clethorps in there family home.

many many thanks i am so excited i cant tell you


----------



## john shaw

Trotterdotpom:did three trips to Iceland in Port Vale in 1969. Pretty sure the Skipper was Bill Hardie Jr ( known as "Wiggy") - a whizz kid in his early 20s at the time


"Port Vale" was featured within the past couple of weeks in the Gy Telegraph "Bygones" supplement.


----------



## Clem

*GY484 Port Vale*

Hi John. I'm sure everyone knows, but there's a good article about GY484 Port Vale on the Cosolidated Fisheries Ltd. website.

http://web.ukonline.co.uk/rayricho/vale.htm

Have you turned up any more info. about GY641 Lacerta, Greenland etc?

Regards

Clem


----------



## john shaw

My outlaws promise to raid the files when we get back from France early Oct-- they are (as usual) tucked away in an attic somewhere--they believe there may be trawlers related stuff there-- when I get any further I'll update you. Re the painting, it will not photograph with the glazed frame, and I don't think she who must be obeyed would thank me for ruining her expensive frame-- perhaps Hilary would photograph her copy as discussed previously? Regards.


----------



## trotterdotpom

*Port Vale*



john shaw said:


> "Port Vale" was featured within the past couple of weeks in the Gy Telegraph "Bygones" supplement.


Thanks John, I'll see if it's still on their website.

Clem, here is a scanned copy of 'Port Vale' painted by Steve Yarrow. Steve has painted numerous Grimsby trawlers, all of this quality. Think he has a website but unable to find it at the moment.

John T.

Whoops - having some trouble adding photo, will try again.

Tried again but picture file seems to be too big - anyone got any ideas?


----------



## mattarosa

daveb said:


> Cool thanks he is picture 4th male from right just his head showing his wife is in fron to him in black dress i have sent to my mom to try and find out who the other people are. John Monger Retired from the Ernest Holt and was on her from her maden voyage in 1948 so i assume he was not on GY 625 at the same time but what do i know. My Grandfather passed away in 1987 at age 86. this is amazing i will try and find out more from my mom's sister who still lives in Clethorps in there family home.
> 
> many many thanks i am so excited i cant tell you


Brilliant. Are you able to date the picture from the people in it that you know?


----------



## mattarosa

*Unitia*

Does anyone know whether 

GY924 Unitia and

A 663 Unitia

are the same trawler?

Thanks
Hilary


----------



## Clem

*GY591 Ernest Holt*



mattarosa said:


> Brilliant. Are you able to date the picture from the people in it that you know?


Hi Hilary/Dave. I can confirm the photo of your Grandfather & Grandmother was taken in 1956. Also in the photo are the Mayor and Mayoress of Grimsby (Alderman Matt Quinn and his wife), you can see the Mayoral chains round his neck.

The Captain Blighe figure, stood next to the Mayoress, I thought was your grandfather until you told me different!

Cheers

Clem


----------



## Clem

trotterdotpom said:


> Thanks John, I'll see if it's still on their website.
> 
> Clem, here is a scanned copy of 'Port Vale' painted by Steve Yarrow. Steve has painted numerous Grimsby trawlers, all of this quality. Think he has a website but unable to find it at the moment.
> 
> John T.
> 
> Whoops - having some trouble adding photo, will try again.
> 
> Tried again but picture file seems to be too big - anyone got any ideas?


I use Photoshop to resize jpegs (ie. 600x450), then save *copied* files, at about 75kb.

I'll google 'steve yarrow' it'd be interesting to see his work. Have you seen Jenny Morgan's paintings? Have a look in my gallery, or search in Fishing Vessels gallery. She's a very talented artist, my favourite.

Cheers

Clem


----------



## mattarosa

Clem said:


> I'll google 'steve yarrow' it'd be interesting to see his work.


Could it be Steve Farrow?

http://www.trawlerart.com/index.htm


----------



## trotterdotpom

mattarosa said:


> Could it be Steve Farrow?
> 
> http://www.trawlerart.com/index.htm


Sorry, silly me - the 'F' looks like a 'Y'. It is Steve Farrow.
Being a technotwit, still having trouble with upload of picture.

John T.


----------



## Steve Farrow

*Steve Farrow*

Hi Clem,
I received your email this morning and have just replied. Thanks for directing me to this web site, I shall be a regular visitor from now on!
If I can help with any trawler photo's then please ask and that applies to anybody reading this.
Steve Farrow www.trawlerart.com


----------



## Steve Farrow

mattarosa said:


> I just wanted to say congratulations on your purchase, I think it's brilliant how things get "rescued" by enthusiasts. If not for that, everything would be gone.
> 
> Clem - was the Rehearo actually originally registered at Grimsby under the name John Burlingham? I haven't got that one on my list, so perhaps I should add it.


 Hi FDR,
I have a decent photo of the REHEARO. If you eamil me I will forward this to you .
Steve


----------



## mattarosa

Steve Farrow said:


> Hi FDR,
> I have a decent photo of the REHEARO. If you eamil me I will forward this to you .
> Steve


Many thanks, Steve, and welcome here. I am sure you will be a big help to us all.

I have emailed re the pic.

Hilary


----------



## mattarosa

mattarosa said:


> Many thanks, Steve, and welcome here. I am sure you will be a big help to us all.
> 
> I hope we can be of help to you somehow as well.


----------



## trotterdotpom

Steve Farrow said:


> Hi Clem,
> I received your email this morning and have just replied. Thanks for directing me to this web site, I shall be a regular visitor from now on!
> If I can help with any trawler photo's then please ask and that applies to anybody reading this.
> Steve Farrow www.trawlerart.com


Welcome aboard, Steve. 

You may have seen that I have a print of one of your paintings. I'm sure I'm just one of many to admire your talent.

I used to live a few doors down from the "Lifeboat" on Cleethorpes front - is it still jumping?

John T.


----------



## Clem

Steve Farrow said:


> Hi Clem,
> I received your email this morning and have just replied. Thanks for directing me to this web site, I shall be a regular visitor from now on!
> If I can help with any trawler photo's then please ask and that applies to anybody reading this.
> Steve Farrow www.trawlerart.com


Welcome to SN Steve, I'm very pleased you could join us. Thanks for the email, I will post the images soon.

Regards

Clem


----------



## Clem

*GY484 Port Vale*

Official Number: 181392 
Port of Registry: Grimsby
Number: GY484 
Name: Port Vale
Callsign: MXWY
Type: M. Trawler	
Built: 10/57 
By: Goole Shipbuilding & Repair Co. Ltd. (Goole) 
Gross Tonnage: 427 
Net Tonnage: 140
Length: 138 ft. 8 in. 
Beam: 28 ft. 4 in. 
Engines: Diesel 
By: Mirrlees Bickerton & Day; Stockport 
Owner: Wendover Fishing Co. (Grimsby) Ltd. 
Manager: Consolidated Fisheries Ltd. Grimsby 
Comments: 3/75 to Consolidated Fisheries Ltd; 7/78 to Colne Group (Colne Shipping Co.) Lowestoft; registered as LT309; ’81 oil rig standby
Fate: 07/01/87 sailed to scrapyard

Attatched is Steve Farrow's painting of this vessel, courtesy of John T.


----------



## mattarosa

*Specs*

Clem

Your specs are great, do you have any for any of the ships in my list (message #69)?

About to try and photograph the print I have (Call of the Sea) for everyone to see. Adrian Thompson used to have a website, but I can't find it now. As I mentioned, I have seen prints of his on ebay.

Hilary


----------



## mattarosa

*Call of the Sea*

Sorry, this is the best I can do. It is a bit scewiff because it is in a place where the sun is shining on it today!

The photo may not be brilliant, but the painting is lovely. It is signed by the painter who has added the message

"Remembrance of those who face peril on the sea!"

Hear, hear.

Hilary


----------



## john shaw

Hilary-- thanks for doing that-- nice inscription on yours, ours (#186) just has artists signature-- you must have influence!! regards.


----------



## Steve Farrow

trotterdotpom said:


> Welcome aboard, Steve.
> 
> You may have seen that I have a print of one of your paintings. I'm sure I'm just one of many to admire your talent.
> 
> I used to live a few doors down from the "Lifeboat" on Cleethorpes front - is it still jumping?
> 
> John T.


 Thanks for those kind words John.........Sorry to say that the Lifeboat Hotel was demoished a few years ago to make way for new flats!


----------



## Clem

mattarosa said:


> Clem
> 
> do you have any for any of the ships in my list (message #69)?
> 
> Hilary


Hi Hilary, sorry for not getting back to you. I'm a little disorganised at the moment, I need to look through the thread and compile a 'to do' list! At the moment I seem to be tackling the latest posts first. I promise I'll get things in order of first come first served. (*)) 

Thanks for you patience, and thank you for posting 'The Call of the Sea'.

Clem


----------



## birgir

Clem said:


> Thanks for that. When I visit a friend I'll check his books to see if there was more than one G.I.C. The year 1916 helps.
> 
> Were the crews of these four boats line fishing?
> 
> Clem



HI.

The G.I.C was registered in Iceland in 1898. The open boats (from the fishing village "Grindavík") were had both long-lines and nets. They were at the time still oared, as Grindavík, because of it´s absence of harbour facilities could not support heavier engine-powered boat. Thus the large crews.

Birgir.


----------



## Clem

Thanks for that information Birgir. I'll be able to check, this week, to see if the photo I posted is the same vessel.

Regards

Clem


----------



## Clem

*GY1037 War Duke*

Hi Hilary, I'm sure I can find more info. as I've read about this ship. If so I'll update this post and give you a pm.

Cheers

Clem

Official Number: 139941 
Port of Registry: Grimsby
Number: GY1037 
Name: War Duke
Callsign: GKCG 
Type: Steam Trawler	
Built: 04/17
By: Cook Welton & Gemmell Ltd. Beverly
Gross Tonnage: 246 
Net Tonnage: 97
Length: 117.4 ft.
Beam: 22 ft.
Draught: 12.7 ft.
(Note: Measurements are in Feet and Tenths of Feet)
Engines: T 3cy 75 RHP
By: Great Central Co-op Engine & Ship Repairing Co. Ltd. Grimsby
Owner: Nottingham Trawling Co. Ltd.
Manager: J.N. Bacon 
Comments: 04/17 built for White & Willows; 07/19 Yarborough Steam Fishing; 08/24 H. Bacon; 09/30 Nottingham Trawlers; Admiralty Service 11/39 or 06/40; M/S pennant FY582; A/P trawler 44; 12/44 Parkholme Trawlers; 07/49 Trawlers (Grimsby) Ltd; 04/53 Derwent Trawlers; 01/56 A. Banninster (Trawlers) Ltd. 
Fate: Scrapped May 1963


----------



## mattarosa

john shaw said:


> Hilary-- thanks for doing that-- nice inscription on yours, ours (#186) just has artists signature-- you must have influence!! regards.


Absolutely no influence, I'm afraid, but perhaps an influential friend? I got the print as a Christmas present.


----------



## mattarosa

Clem said:


> Hi Hilary, sorry for not getting back to you. I'm a little disorganised at the moment, I need to look through the thread and compile a 'to do' list! At the moment I seem to be tackling the latest posts first. I promise I'll get things in order of first come first served. (*))
> 
> Thanks for you patience, and thank you for posting 'The Call of the Sea'.
> 
> Clem


If lack of organisation was an Olympic sport, I'd be a cert for the British team. There is absolutely no hurry, Clem, I'm not going anywhere. Any help, whenever, will be appreciated.


----------



## mattarosa

birgir said:


> HI.
> 
> The G.I.C was registered in Iceland in 1898. The open boats (from the fishing village "Grindavík") were had both long-lines and nets. They were at the time still oared, as Grindavík, because of it´s absence of harbour facilities could not support heavier engine-powered boat. Thus the large crews.
> 
> Birgir.


Have you seen this?

http://www.nhsc.org.uk/index.cfm/event/getVessel/vref/170

I've forgotten what the question was, so I'm not sure whether this provides any answers.

Hilary


----------



## mattarosa

*War Duke*



Clem said:


> Owner: Nottingham Trawling Co. Ltd.
> 
> Thanks for the spec, Clem. I had to smile at the owner. I was born and bred not too far from Nottingham, and the only link with the sea I was aware of was the annual pit trip to Skegness.
> 
> Hilary


----------



## Clem

Hi Hilary, Lloyds had War Duke's owners as Kottingham, that threw me at first.
Pleased you found that link to Esther/GIC, though the spelling is open to question. She could have been Ester.

Is your interest in the War duke specific. As you know, I had a relative working on her as a deckie in the 40's possibly his father too.

Clem


----------



## Steve Farrow

mattarosa said:


> Clem said:
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe GY15 Stockholm should read GY19 Stockham? Do you have a thumbnail of the photo on offer?
> 
> Clem
> Now why didn't I think of that?
> 
> Now attached.
> 
> Hilary
> 
> 
> 
> Clem,
> I have just posted a photo of the STOCKHAM in the gallery
> Steve
Click to expand...


----------



## Clem

*GY19 Stockham*

Thanks Steve, showed it to my relative.

Clem


----------



## Kerbtrawler

*Wellard GY300 or EL Capitan GY450*

Clem I have all of the tech spec on this vessel but nothing stories wise 

Do you or anyone out there have any 
reason for asking is my Grandfather was a deckie on her back in the late 40's and early 50's.
cheers


----------



## Clem

*Wellard GY300 or EL Capitan GY450*

Hi Kerbtrawler, it'd be great if you could post the spec of this ship on here. I remember reading something about the Wellard so, I'll have a look around in my books.

Clem


----------



## Clem

*GY157 G.I.C./Esther/Ester & GY398 Ross Tiger*

Hi Brumblebass & Birgir, I've found a little about the GY157 G.I.C./Esther/Ester (spellings differ), along with Hilary's link to the: National Register of Historic Vessels.

I can confirm she is in Grimsby, tied up alongside the sidetrawler GY398 Ross Tiger in the Alexandra Dock outside the National Fishing Heritage Centre.

I visited Grimsby in January 06 and took some photos of GY398 Ross Tiger, you can see GY157 Esther's bow in the photograph. Next time I go to GY. I'll take some photos of her and post them here.

Note: In previous posts I referred to G.I.C. as GY152. GY157 is the correct number. I have since corrected relevant posts.

Regards

Clem 


Official Number: 94083 
Port of Registry: Grimsby
Number: GY157
Name: G.I.C.
Type: Ketch; Trawler	
Built: 06/1888 
By: T. Collinson; Grimsby
Registered Tonnage: 85.04
Length: 76 ft. 
Beam: 25.5 ft. 
Draught:11.3 ft.
(Note: Measurements are in Feet and Tenths of Feet)
Owner: Great Grimsby Ice Co.
Skipper: J. Collinson
Crew (Men): 2
Crew (Boys): 3 
Comments: Sold to Yarmouth 05/1896?
Fate: Awaiting restoration in Grimsby; ‘Designated Vessel’ by the National Register of Historic Vessels

http://www.nhsc.org.uk/index.cfm/event/getVessel/vref/170

“Sold at auction on 4 May 1888, this Grimsby sailing smack was launched on 15 June 1888 and named G.I.C. With a crew of two men and three boys she fished for the Grimsby Ice Co. Ltd. until April 1896? when she was sold to Great Yarmouth. In 1902 she was sold to Iceland and renamed ESTHER. Twenty years later she was sold on to the Faeroe Islands, where she remained for the next seventy years. Sold back to Grimsby in 1992, she was incorporated into the historic fishing fleet of the National Fishing Heritage Centre.”


----------



## Kerbtrawler

*Wellard GY 300*

Original Name EL CAPITAN GY 450
Built for Earl Steam Fishing Co by Cook Welton & Gemmel 
Date of Build 28/07/1937
Yard No 626
Official Number 164429
Call Sign GZYP

The Length 173 X 28.6 X 14.6, with a Quarter deck 89' and a Fo'scle of 37'
Gross Tons 514, Net Tons 280
Engines 135 NHP, Triple Cylinder 15", 25" & 42" x 27"
Boiler 1 SB 220lb Spt
Producing 12.8 Knots by Amos & Smith.

07/1938 went to Crampins Steam Fishing Co
10/1939 Rqd as A/S Name unchanged Pennant FY 137
Joined the 21st A/S Strike Group, Took part in the Norwegian Campaign
1942 Loaned to USN from February and returned in October and was transferred to the South African Station.
Returned 1945
Acquired by Crampins 1946 registry to GY 300 

Her Colours were:
Funnel yellow C on Blue band between yellow and black top. Hull black with white line red boot topping.

was Broken up 09/1961

My Grandfather sailed on the Wellard for 3 months back in 46' as a deck hand,before being reunited with her in 1950. Signed on as a 3rd hand from 20/04/1950 to 18/09/1950. His next trip with the Wellard wasn't until 25/01/1951 when signed on again as 3rd hand until 16/05/1951. next it was 06/12/1951 but as a deck hand until 24/04/1952 his last time with the vessel was 18/05/1952 until 11/10/1952 again as deck hand.


----------



## Clem

*GY393 Malaga*

Hi Raymond, in reply to your post on page 1 of this thread. GY393 Malaga, here's what I found.

Regards

Clem


Official Number: 146901 
Port of Registry: Grimsby
Number: GY393
Name: Malaga
Callsign: n/k
Type: ‘Castle Class’ Steam Trawler	
Built: 1917 
By: Port Arthur Shipbuilding Co. Ontario Canada
Gross Tonnage: 217
Net Tonnage: 123
Length: 125.7 ft. 
Beam: 23.5 ft.
Draught: 12.7ft.
(Note: Measurements are in Feet and Tenths of Feet)
Engines: T 3cy 
By: n/k
Owner: Boston Deep Sea Fisheries
Comments: Built as either HMS TR1 or TR2; 09/1926 to Boston Deep Sea Fisheries
Fate: Lost 1935

Naval Specification
Gross Tonnage: 275
Displacement: 360
Dimensions: 125.5 ft. pp x 23.5 ft. x 12.75 ft.
Armament: 1 x 12 pdr (TR8 only)
Machinery: 1 shaft triple expansion 480 iHP
Speed: 10.5 knots

Notes: HMS TR8 is the only known armed minesweeping trawler of this class on completion, TR1-TR10 (Photo Attatched).


----------



## Clem

*RE: Post #157*

Thanks for posting that info. Just checked out your website, great job Trevor.

Good Luck

Clem


----------



## Clem

*GY300 Wellard*



Kerbtrawler said:


> ...my Grandfather was a deckie on her back in the late 40's and early 50's.
> cheers


GY300 Wellard. A. H. Barratt. Died 15th July 1947.

R.I.P.


----------



## Clem

*GY328 Edwardian*

Hi Hilary, I found this.

Regards

Clem

Official Number: 161004 
Port of Registry: Grimsby
Number: GY328
Name: Edwardian
Callsign: GWYS 
Type: Steam Trawler	
Built: 01/1931
By: Cook Welton & Gemmell Ltd. Beverly 
Gross Tonnage: 348 
Net Tonnage: 148
Length: 140.3 ft.
Beam: 24.6 ft.
Draught: 13.3 ft.
(Note: Measurements are in Feet and Tenths of Feet)
Engines: T 3cy 96RHP
By: Amos & Smith Ltd. Hull
Owner: Loyal Steam Fishing Ltd. Grimsby 
Manager: W.W. Butt 
Comments: Admiralty Service Hired as M/S trawler 09/39, later purchased Sold 01/46 08/1948 To Hull (Hellyer Brothers Ltd.) renamed H576 Opehlia; Loyal SF had another Edwardian (GY704) lost in 1930 
Fate: Scrapped 1954


Fatalities: Boon, Roy, William. Seaman Cook HMT Edwardian, RNPS died 11/08/40

Lest We Forget


----------



## Steve Farrow

Hi all,
I have posted a couple of photo's of the Wellard in the Gallery
Steve.


----------



## mattarosa

*Launch of Atlantic Seal*



Clem said:


> Hi Hilary, I found this.
> 
> Thanks Clem, that's great.
> 
> I found something today as well which I wanted to share. I bought a battered old book, and I didn't hold out any great hopes of it, but I found this pic/article about the launch of Atlantic Seal. It wasn't a Grimsby registered trawler, but I hope you will allow it in your Grimsby Fishing Vessels thread because it was built in Grimsby, by Doigs.
> 
> I have an interest in Doigs, so if anyone has any info about them (history, stories, pics, anything, says she, hopefully) I'd be ever so grateful.
> 
> Hope you like the item. I've posted it here, but....I hate to come over all girly, but I haven't figured out how to post to the gallery yet.
> 
> Thanks again for the Edwardian specs, Clem.
> 
> Hilary


----------



## mattarosa

mattarosa said:


> Clem said:
> 
> 
> 
> I hate to come over all girly, but I haven't figured out how to post to the gallery yet.
> 
> Figured and posted.
> 
> I'm quite good at parking as well !
Click to expand...


----------



## Steve Farrow

Hi Hilary....Do you have any information about J.S. Doig's having a drydock at GY. I'm only aware of their slipways, but mention of the dry-dock keeps cropping up!
I will post a photo of the Atlantic Seal in the Gallery. She was managed by Bannisters when she fished from Grimsby They then bought her and re-named her the Saxon Ranger


----------



## Clem

*GY1396 Saxon Ranger ex. Atlantic Seal*

Hi Hilary & Steve. You may find this link interesting, the demise of the Saxon Ranger.

http://www.westcoastdivepark.com.au/


----------



## Steve Farrow

Hi Clem,
Intersting indeed. It seems abetter option than the burng gun!
Regards
Steve


----------



## Clem

*GY1396 Saxon Ranger ex. Atlantic Seal*

At least she's still earning, $25 dollars per day per person to dive, over three years. I reckon she's paid back her scrap value plenty.

How long did you work on her Steve, was the accomodation/working conditions ok?

Cheers

Clem


----------



## Steve Farrow

I only did one 'Pleasure trip' It was the Easter of 1963 and I was waiting to join the MN with Buries Markes. The Skipper was a family friend, Tommy Darwood and we fished off the Outer Hebredes and sheltered in Stornaway from atrocious weather.
I also had a couple of trips on the Regardo in 1960, the Ross Lion in 1961 and the Ross Kestrel in 1962. Peter Edge, the manger of Ross Trawlers, called me in his office and asked me if I thought he was running a passenger ships!
Steve


----------



## Clem

Steve Farrow said:


> Peter Edge, the manger of Ross Trawlers, called me in his office and asked me if I thought he was running a passenger ships!
> Steve


Ha, that's funny. Did you have to sign articles?


----------



## Steve Farrow

Yes I signed on as super-cargo!
Steve


----------



## Steve Farrow

Clem.
On a different hread but still dealing with fishing vessels, I have quite a few seine netters that I photographed over the years. If anybody has a particular vessel they would like, and it is in my collection they can have a copy with pleasure.
Steve


----------



## Clem

Yes Steve, I visit Grimsby now and then to photograph fishing boats. It's a desolate place now, compared to the past, quite eerie.

Clem


----------



## Clem

*GY305 Laurids Skomager/Rachael S*

Steve, I photographed GY305 Laurids Skomager (another of the small boats), tied up in Grimsby a few months ago. She's now called the Rachael S, same Reg.

I've posted her photo, along with your painting of her.


----------



## Steve Farrow

Just posted the BEKIMAEL and HULL CITY. How do you post thumbnails?
Steve


----------



## Kerbtrawler

Steve, go to post reply and scroll down until you see manage attachments

there is a size of file restriction

hope this helps


----------



## mattarosa

Steve Farrow said:


> Hi Hilary....Do you have any information about J.S. Doig's having a drydock at GY. I'm only aware of their slipways, but mention of the dry-dock keeps cropping up!
> 
> Hi Steve
> I don't know but I can find out. I know someone who served his apprenticeship there. Will try and call him tomorrow.
> 
> Hilary


----------



## mattarosa

Clem said:


> Hi Hilary & Steve. You may find this link interesting, the demise of the Saxon Ranger.
> 
> Thanks Clem. I had heard about this, so it was interesting to read about it.
> 
> Hilary


----------



## mattarosa

Steve Farrow said:


> Clem.
> On a different hread but still dealing with fishing vessels, I have quite a few seine netters that I photographed over the years. If anybody has a particular vessel they would like, and it is in my collection they can have a copy with pleasure.
> Steve


Steve
I'd be interested in seeing some pics of seine netters. Is that the most common way to catch fish nowadays? Why is the net called a seine net?

Questions questions.

Hilary


----------



## mattarosa

mattarosa said:


> Steve Farrow said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hi Hilary....Do you have any information about J.S. Doig's having a drydock at GY. I'm only aware of their slipways, but mention of the dry-dock keeps cropping up!
> 
> Steve
> Sent an email and got this reply:
> 
> "Yes Doigs had a small dry dock within its facilities. This was located to
> the West of the yard close to the Shear legs (used for fitting out and
> lifting engines into the ships)."
> 
> I will see what else I can find out.
> 
> Hilary
Click to expand...


----------



## Steve Farrow

Thanks Hilary, I'm certainly keen to find out more about this dry-dock, but finding any information surroundind it's existance has proved negative. I would appreciate any help with this one. 
Did you receive the photo of the Doig's workers that I sent last night?
Regards
Steve


----------



## mattarosa

Steve Farrow said:


> Thanks Hilary, I'm certainly keen to find out more about this dry-dock, but finding any information surroundind it's existance has proved negative. I would appreciate any help with this one.
> Did you receive the photo of the Doig's workers that I sent last night?
> Regards
> Steve



Hi Steve
I don't think I received the photo, but I can't remember whether I checked my emails. I was home quite late (for me) and had been partying just a little.
Thank you anyway. 

I assume it is the pic in the thumbnail here, which is great. Do you know what date it was taken?

Hilary


----------



## Steve Farrow

Hi Hilary,
It was 1967 according to the writing on the back of the photo. Third from right is John Dunham whose father, Skipper Ben Dunham was lost on the RIVIERE in 1953.
I write a monthly article to accompany a trawler painting in the Grimsby Telegraph's Bygones publication, so if you would like me to email any of the these to you it wouln't be a problem
Regards
Steve


----------



## mattarosa

Steve Farrow said:


> Thanks Hilary, I'm certainly keen to find out more about this dry-dock, but finding any information surroundind it's existance has proved negative. I would appreciate any help with this one.
> Did you receive the photo of the Doig's workers that I sent last night?
> Regards
> Steve



Steve
Got chance for a very quick chat with my acquaintance this morning, but afraid we spoke more about your picture than about the dry dock. Will try to do better when there is more time.

Anyway, snippets from the conversation:

He thinks there was a picture in the Telegraph or Bygones recently which showed the dry dock, but he didn't think to scan it (bright spark!)

He said he could draw it from memory, and will do so when he has time.

Re the picture:

He says the guys in the picture were shipwrights working on what was known as the big slipway and they are preparing the slipway ready for a ship coming. This slip was larger than the rest and could take smaller freight cargo ships as well as trawlers. Doigs used to repair some of these ships on this slipway including royal naval auxiliary supply ships. This is also the slipway used to lengthen the Ross "K" class trawlers.

I have been surprised not to be able to find out very much at all about Doigs so any info you come across would be welcome. I will pursue the dry dock story as and when I have a bit more time.

Thanks for sharing the picture.

Hilary


----------



## Steve Farrow

Hi Hilary,
That's brilliant stuff.....slowly getting there! I think this is the photo from the paper, plus a shot of the Delphini on the Big Slip.
Steve


----------



## Clem

Very interesting folks. I might have heard that Doigs was owned by one of the big trawler companies. Could I be right?

Clem


----------



## mattarosa

Clem said:


> Very interesting folks. I might have heard that Doigs was owned by one of the big trawler companies. Could I be right?
> 
> Clem


Clem
I don't think so originally, but I think it was eventually taken over by the Ross Group.

Hilary


----------



## Clem

That's right Hilary, was that about the time the Ross's K class trawlers were being lengthened by Doigs?


----------



## Clem

*GY696 Sheldon*

Official Number: 132128 
Port of Registry: Grimsby
Number: GY696
Name: Sheldon
Callsign: GYGT 
Type: Steam Trawler
Built: 04/12
By: Cook Welton & Gemmell Ltd. Beverly
Gross Tonnage: 288
Net Tonnage: 144
Length: 130.1 ft.
Beam: 22.2 ft.
Draught: 12.2 ft.
(Note: Measurements are in Feet and Tenths of Feet)
Engines: T 3cy 89 RHP
By: Amos & Smith Ltd. Hull
Owner: Standard Steam Fishing Co. Ltd. 
Comments: Admiralty Service; Hired as A/P trawler 1915-19; armament 1-12pdr 2-machine guns?; 01/40 Sold to Sir Thomas Robinson & Son (Grimsby) Ltd. Admiralty Service 05/40; 03/42 M/S; 03/44-01/45 fuel carrier 
Fate: Presumed lost in severe weather sometime after 30th January 1953 while steaming to the Faeroese fishing grounds

Fatalities

T. R. Beesley-Skipper
R. T. Beesley-Mate
H. V. Wass-Chief Engineer
B. Cullen-2nd Engineer
H. Hess-3rd Hand
S. B. Blastland-Deckhand
C. A. Robinson-Deckhand
J. W. Swinscoe-Deckhand
G. H. Young-Deckhand
T. Bell-Trimmer
K. Burrett-Trimmer
T. S. Carlton-Trimmer
J. Hayward-Trimmer
S. King-Cook

Two crew had taken ill and were put ashore at Kirkwall (K Hotson-Cook and A. Alger-Deckhand). To be replaced by S. King and G. H. Young.

R.I.P.


----------



## mattarosa

Clem said:


> Official Number: 132128
> Port of Registry: Grimsby
> Number: GY696
> Name: Sheldon
> 
> Thanks for this Clem. Oh to be so well organised!


----------



## mattarosa

Clem said:


> That's right Hilary, was that about the time the Ross's K class trawlers were being lengthened by Doigs?


The Ross Group made their offer in June 1963 and the deal was done by January 1964.


----------



## Clem

mattarosa said:


> Clem said:
> 
> 
> 
> Official Number: 132128
> Thanks for this Clem. Oh to be so well organised!
> 
> 
> 
> I'm getting there
Click to expand...


----------



## Clem

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clem 
That's right Hilary, was that about the time the Ross's K class trawlers were being lengthened by Doigs? 



mattarosa said:


> The Ross Group made their offer in June 1963 and the deal was done by January 1964.


The K class were rebuilt 1966/67.

Clem


----------



## mattarosa

*GY696 Sheldon*

Following Clem's posting of the specs, with the sad details of Sheldon's loss, here are a couple of pieces from the Times about it.

The Times, *Tuesday, Feb 17, 1953*; pg. 5
TRAWLER PRESUMED LOST
ANOTHER STILL MISSING
(first part is item about the loss of the Lowestoft trawler, Guava - I'll transcribe this if anyone is interested)
---
Grimsby, Feb 16
No news has been received of the Grimsby trawler Sheldon, of 278 tons, which was last heard of on January 30 and was due back today from a voyage to the Faroes. The owners, Sir Thomas Robinson and Son, state that they have not yet abandoned hope, and that the Sheldon is presumed to be drifting helplessly, as was her sister ship, the Sargon, missing for seven weeks in 1923.

The Times, *Thursday, Feb 19, 1953*; pg. 4
HOPE ABANDONED FOR MISSING TRAWLER
Grimsby, Feb 18
The owners of the Grimsby trawler Sheldon , of which nothing has been heard since January 30, stated today that there can now be no further hope for the safety of the vessel and her crew of 14. From reports received from other trawlers it is presumed that the Sheldon was caught in a sudden gale on January 31 and sank.

The Times, *Wednesday, Feb 25, 1953; pg.5*
A lifebuoy belonging to the Grimsby trawler Sheldon, missing since leaving Orkney on January 30, has been picked up at Burra, Shetland.

Hilary


----------



## mattarosa

*Oh dear*



Clem said:


> mattarosa said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm getting there
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not. (Sad)
Click to expand...


----------



## mattarosa

mattarosa said:


> The Ross Group made their offer in June 1963 and the deal was done by January 1964.


You can't keep a good woman down!

The Times, *Monday, Jun 17, 1963*; pg. 18
ROSS GROUP
Ross Group have made an offer for the entire share capital of J S Doig (Grimsby) Ltd, shipbuilders and ship repairers. The directors of J S Doig are recommending acceptance of the offer.

Hilary


----------



## mattarosa

*Steve's Dry Dock*

Steve
I don't know the source of this picture, but it is called

"Naval patrol boat on Doig's dry dock".

Hilary


----------



## Clem

Nice work Hilary. Are you a hoarder, do you have plenty of old copies of the Times stuffed under your bed? (Read)


----------



## mattarosa

Clem said:


> Nice work Hilary. Are you a hoarder, do you have plenty of old copies of the Times stuffed under your bed? (Read)



No (thank goodness, I'm about to move). I got it all from the Times Digital Archive at my library. It's a great source, I spent endless weekends getting it all and I doubt I've got it all. When I see a trawler mentioned here, I'll always look to see if I've got anything. I also have some interesting stuff about the fishing industry in general or at Grimsby which I'll post as and when I have time. 

If there's anything you want me to look for, give me a shout. I have emailed you what I have on Guava.

Hoarder? Definitely.

Hilary


----------



## mattarosa

*Guava*



mattarosa said:


> I have emailed you what I have on Guava.
> 
> I don't know the LT reg but I assume it is the same as the Grimsby registered Guava GY272 ???
> 
> Hilary


----------



## mattarosa

*Rehearo and Doigs*

Here is a nice story which links two things we have spoken about recently, that is the Rehearo and Doigs. It may even throw a little light on Steve's dry dock question. Here, Doigs appear to have been using someone else's dry dock.

The Times, Wednesday, Jun 21, 1933; pg. 4
High Court Of Justice Probate, Divorce, And Admiralty Division, Damage In Dock: Dock Custom At Grimsby, The Rehearo
Before Mr Justice Langton
His Lordship gave judgment for the defendants in this action, which raised a question as to a dock custom at Grimsby. The plaintiffs, Messrs George F Sleight and owners of the steam trawler Rehearo , sued the defendants J S Doig (Grimsby) Limited, ship-repairers, for damage sustained by the Rehearo in dry dock.
The facts, shortly stated, were that in October 1932, the Rehearo was lying in No. 3 Graving Dock at Grimsby (which is owned by the L and N.E. Railway Company), undergoing repairs by the defendants. Certain bow plates had been stripped off, with the consequence that when water was readmitted to the dock the vessel had to float on her bulkhead. It happened that, unknown to everybody, there were a number of open rivet holes in the bulkhead, through which water penetrated, causing the trawler to sink and sustain damage.
Mr D B Somervell, K.C., and Mr G. St C. Pilcher appeared for the plaintiffs; Mr J Dickinson, K.C., and Mr Cyril Miller for the defendants.

JUDGMENT
Mr Justice Langton, in giving judgment, held that there had been no surrender of the vessel by her owners to the repairers for the purpose of repairs and that there was no agreement by the defendants safely to keep the vessel during the repairs. He further held that, as regarded the particular dry dock in question and vessels of the class of the Rehearo, there existed a custom in Grimsby by which responsibility for the care of the vessels during repairs rested with the owners or insurers. At the same time he exonerated the plaintiffs’ watchman of negligence in failing to detect the inflow of water in time to prevent the damage.

Hilary


----------



## Steve Farrow

*Graving Docks*

Number 3 Graving Dock referred to in the REHEARO case, was in the Fish Dock. That dry-dock along with number 2 Graving Dock were filled in some years ago and in their later years became home to many of the inshore craft.
These dry-docks ran parallel to each other with number 3 to the East.
Number 1 Graving Dock was in the Royal Dock, to the East of the Dock Tower
Steve


----------



## Steve Farrow

mattarosa said:


> Clem said:
> 
> 
> 
> Official Number: 132128
> Port of Registry: Grimsby
> Number: GY696
> Name: Sheldon
> 
> Thanks for this Clem. Oh to be so well organised!
> 
> 
> 
> I have only ever seen one photo of the SHELDON and it shows her alongside the coal-drops in No3 fish dock.
Click to expand...


----------



## Clem

*GY272 Guava*



mattarosa said:


> mattarosa said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have emailed you what I have on Guava.
> 
> I don't know the LT reg but I assume it is the same as the Grimsby registered Guava GY272 ???
> 
> Hilary
> 
> 
> 
> Hi Hilary, thanks for the email.
> 
> GY272 Guava is a different ship. She was lost on the 29th September 1957, after she had been sold and renamed. Cut in half by a Yankee Destroyer. I'll post what I have of that story some other time.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Clem
Click to expand...


----------



## Clem

*GY696 Sheldon*



Steve Farrow said:


> mattarosa said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have only ever seen one photo of the SHELDON and it shows her alongside the coal-drops in No3 fish dock.
> 
> 
> 
> Very nice painting Steve. Have any relatives of the lost crew ever approached you for a print?
> 
> I don't know if you have ever painted the Leicestershire, my great uncle perished when she was lost in 1938.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Clem
Click to expand...


----------



## mattarosa

Steve Farrow said:


> Number 3 Graving Dock referred to in the REHEARO case, was in the Fish Dock. That dry-dock along with number 2 Graving Dock were filled in some years ago and in their later years became home to many of the inshore craft.
> These dry-docks ran parallel to each other with number 3 to the East.
> Number 1 Graving Dock was in the Royal Dock, to the East of the Dock Tower
> Steve


Your local knowledge is so helpful. I haven't visited Grimsby since I was a child (too many other commitments, work and eldercare) but I am thinking of moving somewhere up the East Coast when I retire. A few years off yet, though (but not that many!)

I had many relatives in Grimsby and we often came for holidays, but I barely remember it really. I can't ever remember seeing a trawler in Grimsby, and it is quite possible I never went to the docks area. I have much stronger memories of Cleethorpes (evidenced by numerous photos of gangs of our family on Cleethorpes beach) and staying in a caravan at Ingoldmells.

For me, research into the fishing industry in Grimsby is historical, something I read about in books or hear other people tell me about. For you, I guess, it is a part of your life that once was there and now is not.


----------



## mattarosa

[QUOTE=Clem;76664
GY272 Guava is a different ship. 

Thanks for the info. I was only guessing anyway, hadn't checked.

Hilary


----------



## Steve Farrow

Clem said:


> Steve Farrow said:
> 
> 
> 
> Very nice painting Steve. Have any relatives of the lost crew ever approached you for a print?
> 
> I don't know if you have ever painted the Leicestershire, my great uncle perished when she was lost in 1938.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Clem
> 
> 
> 
> The painting went to a relative of one of the crew and at least two of the prints did. Some times when I hand these pictures over, I hear the very moving and personal and heart breaking stories from these relatives.
> I was asked to paint the Aquarious ( bacon's ) for a lady who, as a child, had gone down dock to see her dad sail on the tide. As the ship sailed out of the lock-pits, he opened the wheelhouse door and waved back at her. That was the last time she saw him. She hit a mine 15 miles SE x E of the Outer Dowsing Light Vessel on 25th Feb 1945. Attached are thumb nails of AQUARIUS & LEICESTERSHIRE.
Click to expand...


----------



## Clem

Steve Farrow said:


> Clem said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...I was asked to paint the Aquarious ( bacon's ) for a lady who, as a child, had gone down dock to see her dad sail on the tide. As the ship sailed out of the lock-pits, he opened the wheelhouse door and waved back at her. That was the last time she saw him. She hit a mine 15 miles SE x E of the Outer Dowsing Light Vessel on 25th Feb 1945.
> 
> 
> 
> So many tragic tales.
Click to expand...


----------



## Steve Farrow

mattarosa said:


> Your local knowledge is so helpful. I haven't visited Grimsby since I was a child (too many other commitments, work and eldercare) but I am thinking of moving somewhere up the East Coast when I retire. A few years off yet, though (but not that many!)
> 
> I had many relatives in Grimsby and we often came for holidays, but I barely remember it really. I can't ever remember seeing a trawler in Grimsby, and it is quite possible I never went to the docks area. I have much stronger memories of Cleethorpes (evidenced by numerous photos of gangs of our family on Cleethorpes beach) and staying in a caravan at Ingoldmells.
> 
> For me, research into the fishing industry in Grimsby is historical, something I read about in books or hear other people tell me about. For you, I guess, it is a part of your life that once was there and now is not.


The Fish Docks have played a huge part in my life, from when I first saw all those steam trawlers in the late 1950's, stem on the 'North Wall' all steam and smoke! What a sight it seemed. So much activity. I was a vessel recorder on the lock pits for a short period, and remember one day logging 83 arrivals and sailings. That of course includes the seine netters and inshores.
It's a different story now, and very sad to see the decay in all of our fishing ports.
I will email some phot's when I get a little time.
Steve


----------



## john shaw

mattarosa said:


> Y I have much stronger memories of Cleethorpes (evidenced by numerous photos of gangs of our family on Cleethorpes beach) and staying in a caravan at Ingoldmells.
> 
> Hilary-- ditto-- days out to Cleggy (we lived only 30 miles away), but most holidays late 50s/early 60s were to Ingoldmells or Skeggy in caravans. Ah, it was a simple but great childhood back then.
> 
> DON'T go back-- it'll make ya weep. Those places are the pits now.


----------



## Clem

*GY661 Tokio*



Steve Farrow said:


> It's a different story now, and very sad to see the decay in all of our fishing ports.
> I will email some phot's when I get a little time.
> Steve


That's a sad sight Steve. My uncle skippered her very early on, 62/63'ish, when she was quite new. He said she was a lovely ship.

Owned by 'Diamonds' before being used by the navy.

This pic. is when she had been taken around opposite the fish market, prior to being devoured by the cutters torch!

Clem


----------



## mattarosa

[QUOTE=john shaw;76722

Ah, it was a simple but great childhood back then.

DON'T go back-- it'll make ya weep. Those places are the pits now.

It certainly was. I lived in a pit village in Notts and once a year they had the pit trip when two or three trains would take the whole village to Skeggy. Even if your family had nothing to do with the pit or the Coal Board, someone wangled you a ticket. The ticket would say Train A, Train B etc. Everybody went. The village would be like the Marie Celeste, but bigger and on land.

Can you imagine that nowadays? It would be on the National Burglars Union calendar of events.


Hilary


----------



## mattarosa

Steve Farrow said:


> Clem said:
> 
> 
> 
> Attached are thumb nails of AQUARIUS & LEICESTERSHIRE.
> 
> 
> 
> The Times, Tuesday, Feb 01, 1938; pg. 14
> FEARED WRECK IN ORKNEYS
> 15 LIVES BELIEVED LOST
> One of the six bodies washed ashore on the Orkney Islands during the week-end was identified yesterday, and there now seems little doubt that they are all from the trawler Leicestershire, of Grimsby. The number on part of a wireless set washed up with the bodies had led to its being identified as part of the equipment of the trawler, which should have returned to port last night.
> The vessel set out for the fishing grounds on January 7, and the last heard of her was at 1.44 a.m. on Friday, when she was in touch with Wick Radio Station and reported her position as 30 miles north-west of Sule Skerry, a desolate island in the Orkney group.
> The body identified was that of Harold Burkitt, a trimmer. He was identified by his mother, who said that her son had on one arm the tattoo marks of a swallow holding a letter in its beak and on the other arm a heart with the letter “M,” which was the initial letter of the name Muriel. Burkitt was 23.
> The fifth and sixth bodies were washed ashore yesterday on the Orkney island of Hoy. One has tattooed on the left forearm a dagger and serpent. A cotton kitbag which has come ashore bears the initials “L.E.S.”
> It was stated at Grimsby last night that the names of the Leicestershire’s crew are:-
> A. Evans, skipper; G. Neslin, mate; C. Slater, first engineer; R. Holloway, second engineer; A. Booth, third engineer; N. Revell, H. Byron, J. Connelly, H. Millor, deckhands; Harold Burkitt and A. Miller, trimmers; A. Blyth, steward; H. Sywords and H. Lancaster, firemen; and R. Mortland, wireless operator.
> 
> I have attached a terrible (sorry) thumbnail of the memorial to the skipper and crew of the Leicestershire.
Click to expand...


----------



## Clem

*GY241 Leicestershire*

Thanks for posting that Hilary, can you tell me, is the image taken from the memorial in the Orkneys?

Best wishes

Clem


----------



## mattarosa

Clem said:


> Thanks for posting that Hilary, can you tell me, is the image taken from the memorial in the Orkneys?
> 
> Best wishes
> 
> Clem


I'm afraid I can't tell you, Clem, it's just another thing I found under my bed.

Hilary


----------



## mattarosa

Clem said:


> Thanks for posting that Hilary, can you tell me, is the image taken from the memorial in the Orkneys?
> 
> Best wishes
> 
> Clem


Clem
Have a look at this page under "Worse things happen at sea"

http://www.joanglee.co.uk/#St. James Square, Grimsby


----------



## mattarosa

*Trawlers with names ending in shire*

Our posts about the Leicestershire have made me wonder how many of these trawlers there are and whether they were all Grimsby registered.

I have the following:

GY528 Argyllshire
GY520 Ayrshire
GY196 Bedfordshire
GY398 Berkshire
GY286 Berkshire
GY899 Cambridgeshire
GY180 Cambridgeshire
GY742 Cheshire
GY766 Devonshire
GY524 Fifeshire
GY496 Hallamshire (a red herring in this list, perhaps?)
GY 85 Hampshire
GY332 Hertfordshire
??? Leicestershire
GY426 Lincolnshire
GY251 Lincolnshire
GY924 Oxfordshire
??? Rutlandshire

Are there any more?

Hils

PS - if anyone can fill in the blanks, please do.


----------



## Sebe

Found this thread very interesting as it brought back so many memories. Born in Cleethorpes and raised in Grimsby. Spent many a day down the North Wall or fishing at the Fish Dock entrance in late 50's/early 60's. Did a pleasure(?) trip on Ross Hawk (my uncle, Colin Chandler, was Mate) before leaving school. Had a spell as a 'barrow boy' while waiting for exam results and then joining MN.
Only get down to the docks now for the Open Day if I am in UK, but I understand that these are coming to an end(?).
What a change there is now when you remember the docks full of vessels and all the industry associated with it - it really is a sad sight today.
So Guys, keep up the good work - it certainly brings back memories for me.

Sebe (Applause)


----------



## mattarosa

Sebe said:


> Found this thread very interesting as it brought back so many memories. Born in Cleethorpes and raised in Grimsby. Spent many a day down the North Wall or fishing at the Fish Dock entrance in late 50's/early 60's. Did a pleasure(?) trip on Ross Hawk (my uncle, Colin Chandler, was Mate) before leaving school. Had a spell as a 'barrow boy' while waiting for exam results and then joining MN.
> Only get down to the docks now for the Open Day if I am in UK, but I understand that these are coming to an end(?).
> What a change there is now when you remember the docks full of vessels and all the industry associated with it - it really is a sad sight today.
> So Guys, keep up the good work - it certainly brings back memories for me.
> 
> Sebe (Applause)



Hi Sebe
I can sometimes find a little story about trawlers that are mentioned, but is an extremely small one for Ross Hawk.

The Times, Thursday, Mar 07, 1968; pg. 2
The Grimsby trawler Ross Hawk was blown ashore in the Humber at Cleethorpes, Lincolnshire, last night.

What was it like doing a pleasure trip? If it was before you left school, you must have been very young. Weren't you scared?

Hilary


----------



## mattarosa

*Shore leave*

I'm off to my mum's, which is a computer free zone, for the weekend, so no more from me for a little while. I hope you all have a great weekend.

Hilary


----------



## Clem

*GY657 Ross Hawk*



Sebe said:


> Found this thread very interesting as it brought back so many memories. Born in Cleethorpes and raised in Grimsby. Spent many a day down the North Wall or fishing at the Fish Dock entrance in late 50's/early 60's. Did a pleasure(?) trip on Ross Hawk (my uncle, Colin Chandler, was Mate) before leaving school. Had a spell as a 'barrow boy' while waiting for exam results and then joining MN.
> Only get down to the docks now for the Open Day if I am in UK, but I understand that these are coming to an end(?).
> What a change there is now when you remember the docks full of vessels and all the industry associated with it - it really is a sad sight today.
> So Guys, keep up the good work - it certainly brings back memories for me.
> 
> Sebe (Applause)


Hi Sebe, I'm glad you find this thread interesting, thanks for contributing.
I'll get round to posting some details of GY657 Ross Hawk when I get the time. 
I've noted Colin Chandler was Mate on her. Do you have a rough date you sailed, also can you remember the skippers name at that time or any other of the crew?

Best regards

Clem


----------



## Clem

mattarosa said:


> I'm off to my mum's, which is a computer free zone, for the weekend...
> Hilary


Have a good weekend Hilary.

Clem


----------



## Sebe

Clem said:


> Hi Sebe, I'm glad you find this thread interesting, thanks for contributing.
> I'll get round to posting some details of GY657 Ross Hawk when I get the time.
> I've noted Colin Chandler was Mate on her. Do you have a rough date you sailed, also can you remember the skippers name at that time or any other of the crew?
> 
> Best regards
> 
> Clem


Hi Clem,

The Ross Hawk was fairly new - I remember her arrival from builders, so I think it must have been the summer 1961 when I did a trip, as I joined the MN October 1962 and had spent the summer months on the docks. Can't remember the rest of crew now (another senior moment!) and unfortunately my uncle 'crossed the bar' some time ago. I do know that he sailed on the Bombardier for some time , and prior to Ross Hawk, he was on Restrivo or one of that class.

Just checked the Sidewinder site and Jack Ibbotson was skipper on the maiden voyage of Ross Hawk and I think it was still him when I did the trip. 

Sebe (Thumb)


----------



## Roger Griffiths

mattarosa said:


> Our posts about the Leicestershire have made me wonder how many of these trawlers there are and whether they were all Grimsby registered.
> 
> I have the following:
> 
> GY528 Argyllshire
> GY520 Ayrshire
> GY196 Bedfordshire
> GY398 Berkshire
> GY286 Berkshire
> GY899 Cambridgeshire
> GY180 Cambridgeshire
> GY742 Cheshire
> GY766 Devonshire
> GY524 Fifeshire
> GY496 Hallamshire (a red herring in this list, perhaps?)
> GY 85 Hampshire
> GY332 Hertfordshire
> ??? Leicestershire
> GY426 Lincolnshire
> GY251 Lincolnshire
> GY924 Oxfordshire
> ??? Rutlandshire
> 
> Are there any more?
> 
> Hils
> 
> PS - if anyone can fill in the blanks, please do.



RUTLANDSHIRE GY335 O/N164417 registered at GY 7/9/1936
LEICESTERSHIRE GY241 O/N164401 registered at GY 25/1/36 LOST 28/1/38
HALLAMSHIRE GY496 O/N67757 registered at GY 1875-1893
AYRSHIRE GY393 O/N108474 registered at GY 1897-1906

Roger


----------



## mattarosa

Roger Griffiths said:


> RUTLANDSHIRE GY335 O/N164417 registered at GY 7/9/1936
> LEICESTERSHIRE GY241 O/N164401 registered at GY 25/1/36 LOST 28/1/38
> HALLAMSHIRE GY496 O/N67757 registered at GY 1875-1893
> AYRSHIRE GY393 O/N108474 registered at GY 1897-1906
> 
> Roger


Hello Roger
Thank you for your help.
Hilary


----------



## Clem

*GY369 Curtana*

Hi Hilary, hope you had a nice weekend.

Here's your next installment.

Clem


Official Number: 160873 
Port of Registry: Grimsby
Number: GY369
Name: Curtana
Callsign: GTNM 
Type: Steam Trawler
Built: 12/29
By: Cook Welton & Gemmell Ltd Beverly
Gross Tonnage: 354 
Net Tonnage: 149
Length: 140.2 ft.
Beam: 24.6 ft.
Draught: 13.2 ft.
(Note: Measurements are in Feet and Tenths of Feet)
Engines: T 3cy 96 RHP
By: C.D. Holmes & Co. Ltd. Hull 
Owner: Loyal Steam Fishing Co. Grimsby
Manager: W.W Butt
Comments: Ex. H701 Lady Enid; 06/37 to Grimsby; Admiralty Service; Hired as M/S 08/39-10/45; Armament 1-12pdr; 08/53 sold to Fleetwood
Fate: Scrapped 08/55

Note: She was still named Lady Enid while first registered in Grimsby (Lloyds 1937-38) This vessel is not to be confused with H702 Lady Enid


Fatalities

Henry Davidson (22) deckhand
93 Flinton Street, Hull
Lost overboard, S/T H701 Lady Enid
White Sea, 24th January 1937

R.I.P.


----------



## mattarosa

Clem said:


> Hi Hilary, hope you had a nice weekend.
> 
> Here's your next installment.


Thanks Clem. I had a very nice weekend. A friend had lent me all six volumes of "Distant Grounds" so I had plenty of trawler interest in my weekend. It was interesting to see those old films of the times Steve was reminiscing about.

Hilary


----------



## Clem

*Distant Grounds*

Yes, they're very good videos, I've seen one them and a few other titles that don't spring to mind.

Clem


----------



## mattarosa

*Cypress*

Does anyone have any details of a trawler called Cypress that was operational in 1900? 

I have just come across a horrible story about a Grimsby skipper called Benjamin Baggott who, in an assault on the high seas, threw turpentine over a ***** (who presumably was a member of the crew) and set fire to it. 

I hope he isn't Baggott's ancestor, as he sounds like a very nasty piece of work.

Hilary


----------



## mattarosa

*Germania*

Another mystery trawler (a mystery to me anyway), the Germania, said to be a Grimsby steam trawler. 

In August 1900, the Germania was in collision with the steam Jaegersborg of Copenhagen in the North Sea off Blyth. Three of the crew were saved, but seven were lost, including the skipper, who had the very appropriate name of Fysch (Thomas Wilson Fysch).

Anyone know anything about the Germania?

Hilary


----------



## mattarosa

mattarosa said:


> I hope he isn't Baggott's ancestor, as he sounds like a very nasty piece of work.
> 
> Hilary


Sorry for the scrambled message. I meant, I hope Baggott isn't anyone on here's ancestor!


----------



## Roger Griffiths

Hello,
I have nothing on CYPRESS 
GERMANIA GY 540 O/N99715 on GY register 1893-1900 Lost in the North Sea 29/July/1900


----------



## mattarosa

Roger Griffiths said:


> Hello,
> I have nothing on CYPRESS
> GERMANIA GY 540 O/N99715 on GY register 1893-1900 Lost in the North Sea 29/July/1900


Thank you for your help again, Roger. Do you know how many Grimsby trawlers there have been EVER? I think it must be something over 3,000 including the sailing trawlers.

Hilary


----------



## Steve Farrow

*Number of Grimsby trawlers*

Hello,
The question of how many Grimsby trawlers there were in Grimsby is an interesting one. According to Charles Cox's excellent "Steam Trawlers & Liners of Grimsby", he lists 1,824 vessels. He also published "Sailing Trawlers & Liners of Grimsby" This deals mainly with the Dandy-rigged smacks (ketch) that used a beam trawl, and the smacks that fished with long-lines.
These numbered 1,258. Large numbers of wooden Seine-net vessels with their pale blue hulls, were also based here although their origin was Denmark.
I believe that only three of these survive today.
Regards
Steve
Thumb nail is of the TOKIO being scrapped


----------



## Roger Griffiths

Hello Steve, 
Yes, an interesting one and I think one that could never be totally accurate.
My list contains the basic details of some 3,800 GY fishing vessels registered before 1930. I reckon you could add, what, 600/700 vessels registered after that date. Any more ideas or points of view?

regards
Roger


----------



## mattarosa

Steve Farrow said:


> Hello,
> The question of how many Grimsby trawlers there were in Grimsby is an interesting one. According to Charles Cox's excellent "Steam Trawlers & Liners of Grimsby", he lists 1,824 vessels. He also published "Sailing Trawlers & Liners of Grimsby" This deals mainly with the Dandy-rigged smacks (ketch) that used a beam trawl, and the smacks that fished with long-lines.
> These numbered 1,258. Large numbers of wooden Seine-net vessels with their pale blue hulls, were also based here although their origin was Denmark.
> I believe that only three of these survive today.
> Regards
> Steve
> Thumb nail is of the TOKIO being scrapped


So my estimate of 3,000+ was not over the top. It was just a guess. It is a stupendous number. Just think of all the lives down the years that will have depended on them. Not only the fishermen themselves, but shipwrights, netmakers, fish salesmen, fish workers, shopkeepers and all the other ancillary industries. 

Steve, I have sent you an email. I hope it arrives safely as my email of 15th September obviously didn't.

Hilary


----------



## mattarosa

Roger Griffiths said:


> Hello Steve,
> Yes, an interesting one and I think one that could never be totally accurate.
> My list contains the basic details of some 3,800 GY fishing vessels registered before 1930. I reckon you could add, what, 600/700 vessels registered after that date. Any more ideas or points of view?
> 
> 
> Well, it looks like my 3,000+ was a serious underestimate! And that I have quite a few (hundreds and hundreds) missing from MY list.


----------



## Steve Farrow

*Grimsby fishing vessels*

Where do you start from? Is it the fishing craft that worked out of the Haven before any of the docks were built, or the very first registration pre-fixed with GY? Then do you include the small inshores? If it is the introduction of steam trawlers, is the starting point the first wooden smack to be fitted with an auxilliary steam engine or the first iron hull trawler without sails? I don't really think it can be defined but the handfull of ships that are left certainly can! 

Hilary.......Haven't received your emails as yet.
Regards
Steve


----------



## mattarosa

*Mum's mystery minesweeper*

Over the weekend, I was telling my mum about all the things we have been talking about here, especially Steve's memories of what Grimsby used to be like. I also inflicted on her several hours of 'Distant Grounds'. 

This all led to her reminiscing about her childhood and teenage years in Grimsby before the war (mum is 84). She told me one very nice story about a chap who got her a pass onto the docks one day and told her to meet him there with a basket, which he filled with fish. I sensed this might have been a budding romance, but obviously the fish didn't get him anywhere at all, as my mum married my dad, who was a Grenadier Guard and had nothing to do with Grimsby, the sea or fish.

A vivid memory for mum was a day when she was walking home from work. The family were living in Cleethorpes at the time (they flitted every five minutes and lived all over Grimsby, Cleethorpes and Little Coates) and she says she was walking along the "main road". She looked out to sea (if it is the sea, my geography is none too bright) and saw a "minesweeper" standing on its end (sorry I don't know which end) with half of it sticking out the water, having been hit by a mine. I asked her if it was a trawler and she was not sure.

Mum says this must have been no later than April 1940, because she then joined the army and wasn't in Cleethorpes any more. She thinks it was early 1940 and not 1939 but she is not sure.

Anyone got any ideas what this ship (minesweeper? trawler?) might have been? I have looked in British Naval Vessels Lost at Sea and the only possibility I can see in the Humber was the trawler Benvolio mined off Humber 23 February 1940. I think that was a Fleetwood trawler. In another part of the list, though, it said off Spurn Head. As I said, my geography is not too bright, and I don't know if you would be able to see that from Cleethorpes.

Can anyone throw any light on mum's mystery minesweeper?

Hilary


----------



## mattarosa

Steve Farrow
Haven't received your emails as yet.
Regards
Steve[/QUOTE said:


> I must be Spam! I will try again now (2121 hours)


----------



## Steve Farrow

*Mine sweeper*

Hello Hilary,
The name of that ship could be quite a poser. Many trawlers and sweepers were blown up in the Humber Estuary and they could have come from anywhere in the UK. It was very early in the war though and that should narrow it down a little. Spurn Point is about four miles from Cleethorpes front, so these semi submerged wrecks would be visible at low water. The Benvolio was lost 'Off' the Humber so that suggests out in the North Sea.
I will try and dig a little deeper.
Regards
Steve
The thumb-nail is the HMT William Brady later Tokio


----------



## mattarosa

Steve Farrow said:


> Hello Hilary,
> I will try and dig a little deeper.
> 
> Thanks Steve. I thought it was worth a try since it was right at the beginning of the war and in such a specific location.
> 
> Mum got quite talkative over the weekend, and I also heard the story of the skipper next door who did a midnight flit to Aberdeen when he could not pay off his debts and, to my amazement, the fact that she nearly went on a pleasure trip to Greenland or Iceland (can't remember which), along with his daughter, on his trawler, but her mother would not let her go.
> She cannot remember the name of the trawler, but she thinks the skipper was called Woods.
> 
> Any sign of my email?
> 
> Hilary


----------



## Steve Farrow

I have re-checked my emails and nothing has arrived from you. This happens sometimes!
[email protected]tlworld.com 
Regards
Steve


----------



## Clem

Hi all, I've been busy these past couple of days.

Great stories from your mam Hilary, they certainly put you in mind of those uncertain times many years ago.

I'm amazed at the number of fishing vessels once registered in Grimsby alone. Imagine the British Isles as a whole? The seas around our coast must have been a hive of activity with ships steaming to and from the fishing grounds.

Regards

Clem


----------



## mattarosa

Clem said:


> Hi all, I've been busy these past couple of days.
> 
> Great stories from your mam Hilary, they certainly put you in mind of those uncertain times many years ago.
> 
> I'm amazed at the number of fishing vessels once registered in Grimsby alone. Imagine the British Isles as a whole? The seas around our coast must have been a hive of activity with ships steaming to and from the fishing grounds.
> 
> I'll probably get banned for saying this but... no wonder there aren't any fish left.


----------



## mattarosa

*Ross Kelly*

An early morning question before I go to work.

I have on my list GY125 Ross Kelly. My source (apparently) is Olsens of 1975.

Was there another Ross Kelly ex-Kelly GY6? 

I have seen a little drawing on Ross Kelly on Doigs slipway, cut in half. I think I must have seen that on Ray Richardson's sidewinder site. Would that have been GY6?

Any help appreciated.

Hilary


----------



## Steve Farrow

*Ross Kelly*

Hello Hilary,
Yes, they are the same ship. Built in 1956 at Cochranes Shipyard in Selby as a middle water trawler. Six of these 'K' class ships were built, four were fitted with steam engines and two with diesels.
The steam powered ones were....Kelly, Kipling, Kashmir and Kelvin. The two diesels were the Kandahar and Khartoum.
In January 1962 the Kelly was re-named Ross Kelly and in 1967 she worked out of Newfoundland for about a year before returning. She was given a new fishing number GY. 125. In July 1982 she left for Lowestoft and was converted for oil-rig stand by work for Colne Shipping, and renamed Caicos. This work she carried out until September 1987 when she was sold to a Spanish breaker and scrapped.
In 1966-7 they were all 'Chopped in two' and lengthened by 23 feet and out went the steam engines and boilers and in went new Ruston Diesels. This gave these trawlers a new lease of life to fish deep water.
Another steam trawler, the Joseph Knibb was later renamed Kenilworth then, Ross Kenilworth. She foundered off Iceland in May 1962.
Steve


----------



## mattarosa

Steve Farrow said:


> Yes, they are the same ship


Thanks Steve, that is brilliant information.

Did you get my email this morning? (I am at work now so can't tell)


----------



## Steve Farrow

*Ross Kelly*

Sent you an email....almost a book! It will hopefully await you when get home.
Regards
Steve


----------



## mattarosa

*A Dolphin*

The next trawler I would like to ask about is Atlantic Dolphin. I know this was not a Grimsby trawler, but it was built in Grimsby, by Doigs again. I think it was built for Milford Haven but I seem to recall seeing picture of it with a London registration. I think it was a stern trawler and perhaps one of the first to have diesel engines (not sure about this).

I was wondering whether the trawler ever fished out of Grimsby, and what its eventual fate was.

Anyone have any information about this? 

Hilary


----------



## Steve Farrow

*Atlantic Dolphin*

Hello Hilary,
The Atlantic Dolphin was built about 1961 by Doig's in GY and fished out of here for a few years before being sold to Peru. Photo's of her seem scarce.
I will try and get hold of one. Here is one taken from aft looking for'ard. The wheelhouse is almost the same as that of the Atlantic Seal.
regards
Steve


----------



## Steve Farrow

Hello Clem,
Help! How do I replace that United Nations flag next to my name and replace it with a red duster or Union Flag?
Steve


----------



## Clem

Hi Steve, I can't remember, give us a mo. and I'll have a look.

Cheers

Clem


----------



## Clem

Steve Farrow said:


> Hello Clem,
> Help! How do I replace that United Nations flag next to my name and replace it with a red duster or Union Flag?
> Steve


Right, got it. Scroll up (top left), click 'User CP', click 'Edit Profile', scroll down to 'Your Country', then select 'U.K.' this gives you the Union Flag.


----------



## Steve Farrow

Thanks Clem.....I think it's sorted
Steve


----------



## trotterdotpom

*Ross Kelvin*



Steve Farrow said:


> Sent you an email....almost a book! It will hopefully await you when get home.
> Regards
> Steve


Hi Steve,

Interesting to read about 'Ross Kelly' and the other K boats. These ships were mentioned on another thread ages ago and the general consensus was that they were all named after former RN destroyers - is that correct?

I did a pierhead jump from Bridlington on 'Ross Kelvin' in '68. She was chartered by the White Fish Authority to test some new kind of fishing gear in the North Sea. Skipper was one of the Hodson Skipper Dynasty (possibly Eddie) - he leapt around the bridge doing a great rendition of "I'm the King of the Swingers" from the "Jungle Book" film which was just out at the time. 

Any chance of a photo of Ross Kelvin? 

John T.


----------



## Steve Farrow

*Ross Kelvin*

I'm fairly certain that they were named after destroyers as you said. 
I have attached a photo of the Ross Kelvin after she was lengthened, as a thumbnail. She had the distinction of being the very first trawler to be built with a transom stern.
If you email me, I will send others of her.
Regards
Steve


----------



## mattarosa

Steve Farrow said:


> I'm fairly certain that they were named after destroyers as you said.


The Times, Tuesday, Sep 20, 1955; pg. 4
TRAWLER LAUNCHED
The Kelly, first of six new deep sea trawlers to be named after destroyers in the flotilla which earned fame early in the last war under the command of Lord Mountbatten, was launched at Selby, Yorkshire, yesterday.

The Times, Friday, Mar 09, 1956; pg. 12
H.M.S. KELLY SURVIVORS ON TRAWLER TRIALS
PRESENTATION OF CREST TO NAMESAKE
The new Kelly, named after the destroyer that became a wartime legend under the command of Lord Mountbatten, sailed from Hull on her river trials yesterday. This Kelly is not a warship but a middle water trawler for the Grimsby fleet. Survivors of the original Kelly, sunk in May 1941, in the battle for Crete, sailed on the new Kelly's trials as guests of the owners, Trawlers Grimsby, Ltd.
Lord Mountbatten, now the First Sea Lord, sent a signed photograph of himself which is to hang in the wheelhouse, and members of the Kelly Reunion Association brought with them a replica of the Kelly's crest and a picture of the ship's company taken in Malta two days before she went down. These were presented to skipper Jack Shepherd, of Craven Road, Cleethorpes, who will command the trawler.
The only Kelly survivor in uniform yesterday was Chief Yeoman of Signals Leonard Smith, a staff instructor attached to the Humber Division, R.N.V.R. He was on the bridge of the H.M.S. Kelly with Lord Mountbatten when she capsized; and he and his captain were swept into the sea and swam together for two and a half hours before they were picked up. 
The Kelly is the first of five new trawlers for Trawlers Grimsby, Ltd. She is 448 tons and was built at Selby.

Hilary


----------



## mattarosa

*Lengthening trawlers*

The Times, Friday, Aug 13, 1965; pg. 13
ROSS CONVERTING FOUR MORE TRAWLERS
Ross Group, the £27m food company, is to spend nearly £600,000 converting four middle water trawlers to distant water vessels. The trawlers - Ross Kelly, Ross Kipling, Ross Kashmir, and Ross Kelvin - will be lengthened by 23ft 6in to 163 ft, and converted from steam to diesel.
Since two other "K" class trawlers, Ross Khartoum and Ross Kandahar, were similarly lengthened in 1963 their earnings have increased by 50 per cent.

Hilary


----------



## Steve Farrow

*'K' Class*

Hi Hilary,
Thanks for that fascinating account from the Times......It must have been a very moving occasion for the lads off HMS Kelly.
Did you receive my email ok last night?
Regards
Steve


----------



## mattarosa

Steve Farrow;78389
Did you receive my email ok last night?
Regards
Steve[/QUOTE said:


> Yes I did, Steve, and replied. Is it me or is it you? If you receive it, I have a PS "it's mine" (subject to structural integrity, no gazumping etc)


----------



## Clem

Hi folks, the information you have posted about Ross's K class is really good, and of great interest to me.

Thanks

Clem


----------



## mattarosa

Clem said:


> Hi folks, the information you have posted about Ross's K class is really good, and of great interest to me.
> 
> Hi Clem
> They are an interesting bunch of trawlers, I rather like the names, Kandahar, Khartoum etc.
> 
> I just noticed I have become a Senior Member, which makes me feel very old indeed.
> 
> Hilary


----------



## mattarosa

*Another of my mysteries*

Here is another of my mysteries to keep your little grey cells working. I am as good as Quiz Night at the pub, don't you think?

I have attached a thumbnail and I am interested to find out what these two vessels are. This picture is copyright of the Telegraph in GY, but I hope they would forgive me posting it for the educative purpose of identifying the subjects (that's my excuse anyway).

The one at the back looks like 324 and looks like GY so could be the Indian Star? or Northern Rover? The one at the front is more problematical as the number has been practically scraped off.

I am hoping someone may have seen this pic before and knows the answer to the conundrum.

I'd also be interested to know exactly what is happening here. Are they being painted?

Hilary


----------



## mattarosa

*Another mystery pic*

This is another one I can't identify.

Any clues?

Hilary


----------



## Steve Farrow

*Quiz night*



mattarosa said:


> Here is another of my mysteries to keep your little grey cells working. I am as good as Quiz Night at the pub, don't you think?
> 
> I have attached a thumbnail and I am interested to find out what these two vessels are. This picture is copyright of the Telegraph in GY, but I hope they would forgive me posting it for the educative purpose of identifying the subjects (that's my excuse anyway).
> 
> The one at the back looks like 324 and looks like GY so could be the Indian Star? or Northern Rover? The one at the front is more problematical as the number has been practically scraped off.
> 
> I am hoping someone may have seen this pic before and knows the answer to the conundrum.
> 
> I'd also be interested to know exactly what is happening here. Are they being painted?
> HilHelloary,
> These two vessels are wooden seine netters or gill netters on the slips in GY. the one astern is the BEVERLEY GY 324. This was also the port reg. of the INDIAN STAR which was scrapped in 1957 as the NORTHERN ROVER. It can be confusing when these numbers are sometimes used many times!
> The other ship much more difficult to pin down, but I will see what I can find out. These ships are hauled out of the water periodically, usually for a bottom clean and a new coat of anti- fouling paint. Also general maintainance work, ie, replaceing anodes and re-caulking.
> Steve
> Hilary



Hello Hilary,
These two vessels are wooden seine netters or gill netters on the slips in GY. the one astern is the BEVERLEY GY 324. This was also the port reg. of the INDIAN STAR which was scrapped in 1957 as the NORTHERN ROVER. It can be confusing when these numbers are sometimes used many times!
The other ship much more difficult to pin down, but I will see what I can find out. These ships are hauled out of the water periodically, usually for a bottom clean and a new coat of anti- fouling paint. Also general maintainance work, ie, replaceing anodes and re-caulking.
Steve


----------



## Steve Farrow

*Trawler aground*



mattarosa said:


> This is another one I can't identify.
> 
> Any clues?
> 
> Hilary


Thiis the deep-water trawler NORTHERN DAWN GY 289 sat on the beach off Grimsby Fish Docks. This sometimes happed when they were trying to make the lock pits on a quickly ebbing tide.
Steve


----------



## mattarosa

Steve Farrow said:


> Hello Hilary,
> These two vessels are wooden seine netters or gill netters on the slips in GY. the one astern is the BEVERLEY GY 324. This was also the port reg. of the INDIAN STAR which was scrapped in 1957 as the NORTHERN ROVER. It can be confusing when these numbers are sometimes used many times!
> The other ship much more difficult to pin down, but I will see what I can find out. These ships are hauled out of the water periodically, usually for a bottom clean and a new coat of anti- fouling paint. Also general maintainance work, ie, replaceing anodes and re-caulking.
> Steve


I can see now that it is smaller than the ones I mentioned, must have been bleary eyed before. I'm supposed to be doing some sorting out/packing today so got up early to have my daily Internet fix before I start.

The numbers are confusing, but many people seem to have them all sorted out in databases and stuff. Must be a man thing. I have got a list, but the Beverley G324 was not on it. It is now.

Many thanks for all your help. It is interesting to find out about the cleaning/painting. I like the romantic side of trawlers, if there ever was one, bobbing about in the sunset and so forth, but I find the reality of them fascinating as well.

Hilary

PS - there was only one hanging basket!


----------



## mattarosa

Steve Farrow said:


> Thiis the deep-water trawler NORTHERN DAWN GY 289 sat on the beach off Grimsby Fish Docks. This sometimes happed when they were trying to make the lock pits on a quickly ebbing tide.
> Steve



Steve
Many thanks. I declare you a super sleuth, the Hercule Poirot of Grimsby trawlers.
Hilary


----------



## Steve Farrow

*The other vessel*



mattarosa said:


> Steve
> Many thanks. I declare you a super sleuth, the Hercule Poirot of Grimsby trawlers.
> Hilary


Hilary,
The other vessel on the slips, seems to be the LOCHEARN GY250. Check out the thumbnail and see what you think.

Just like a ship.........your hanging basket will need a lot of water!

Steve


----------



## mattarosa

Steve Farrow said:


> Hilary,
> The other vessel on the slips, seems to be the LOCHEARN GY250. Check out the thumbnail and see what you think.
> Steve


I'm tempted to make a comment about her bottom looking big in this.

I tried typing Lochearn into the search box and the pick of the 2 seine netters on the slips did not come up, so I'm not sure. What did come up was 3 pics of Jubilee Quest. I'm not sure what the connection is. I think Jubilee Quest was (is?) one of the Asda ones, isn't it? I don't know all that much about any fishing vessels but I know least about ones that fished at Grimsby recently (seine netters etc) or might be fishing there now. What, if anything fishes out of Grimsby now? I remember reading about a Spanish trawler registered at Grimsby (Erimo) running aground on the Tiger's Tail at Fleetwood and bunging up the passage for allcomers for ages. I think that must have been about 4 years ago.

Now... I better go and do some packing.


----------



## mattarosa

*Seine netter*

Steve
While you are in a sleuthing mode, do you know the name of this one?

Hilary


----------



## mattarosa

*And finally*

I must stop posting Telegraph pics or they will come and get me, but do you know the name of this one?

And why the teddy bear?

Right... to the packing....


----------



## Steve Farrow

mattarosa said:


> I must stop posting Telegraph pics or they will come and get me, but do you know the name of this one?
> 
> And why the teddy bear?
> 
> Right... to the packing....


Hilary,
The Teddy's name remains elusive but the vessel is the TANANA. 
I will get back to you after I have edited a couple of photo's I took today of two french trawlers ( they had been landing whiting.)
Keep packing...dont forget the watering can!
Steve


----------



## Steve Farrow

mattarosa said:


> I'm tempted to make a comment about her bottom looking big in this.
> 
> I tried typing Lochearn into the search box and the pick of the 2 seine netters on the slips did not come up, so I'm not sure. What did come up was 3 pics of Jubilee Quest. I'm not sure what the connection is. I think Jubilee Quest was (is?) one of the Asda ones, isn't it? I don't know all that much about any fishing vessels but I know least about ones that fished at Grimsby recently (seine netters etc) or might be fishing there now. What, if anything fishes out of Grimsby now? I remember reading about a Spanish trawler registered at Grimsby (Erimo) running aground on the Tiger's Tail at Fleetwood and bunging up the passage for allcomers for ages. I think that must have been about 4 years ago.
> 
> Now... I better go and do some packing.


The JUBILEE QUEST and the JUBILEE INTREPID are owned by the Jubilee Fishing Company ( Andrew Allard ). They are relatively new vessels and are still working from the port. They also undertake fishery research work.
I think there may be three seine netters still using that method and a few gill-netters. I'll try and put an exact figure on them.
Took some photo's this morning of two French trawlers that landed whiting here and I've posted them in the Gallery.
Steve


----------



## Steve Farrow

mattarosa said:


> Steve
> While you are in a sleuthing mode, do you know the name of this one?
> 
> Hilary


You've cornered me this time Hilary......I looked through several Olsen's Almanacs butcame up with nothing. Mine only go up to 1984, so this was taken after that. Hmmmm.
Steve


----------



## Steve Farrow

Steve Farrow said:


> You've cornered me this time Hilary......I looked through several Olsen's Almanacs butcame up with nothing. Mine only go up to 1984, so this was taken after that. Hmmmm.
> Steve


Found it!!! She was called the LILLIAN and in about 1984 became the SARAH H. and rigged as an auto-liner for catching dog-fish for John Hancock.
Glad to be of help
Steve


----------



## mattarosa

Steve Farrow said:


> Found it!!! She was called the LILLIAN and in about 1984 became the SARAH H. and rigged as an auto-liner for catching dog-fish for John Hancock.
> Glad to be of help
> Steve


Catching dog-fish for John Hancock sounds like a sitcom. Who is John Hancock?

Many thanks for the info, I hope I have not wasted half of your Sunday. The Telegraph archive is wonderful, but there aren't any names, and sometimes you can't even check it if you know the name because it might have said "a typical seine netter" or a "docks scene" or a "Grimsby trawler" so even the indexer might not have known. Still, they got it all out there very quickly, and it might have taken another 10 years with more details, so I am not complaining.

Thanks for all your help today.

Hilary


----------



## mattarosa

*Grimsby trawler sinks Zeppelin*

My last guessing game of the day. I saw this magic lantern slide on ebay a while back, though I forgot to bid for it. I don't have a magic lantern anyway.

I know the King Stephen was mixed up with a zeppelin somehow, but not sure if this is the King Stephen.

Any info welcome.

Hilary

PS - Steve, I have thought about the painting, if you don't hear from me by tonight, please let me know on here.


----------



## mattarosa

*BRITISH trawler sinks zeppelin (it's got GY on though)*



mattarosa said:


> My last guessing game of the day. I saw this magic lantern slide on ebay a while back, though I forgot to bid for it. I don't have a magic lantern anyway.
> 
> THIS magic lantern slide!


----------



## Steve Farrow

mattarosa said:


> mattarosa said:
> 
> 
> 
> My last guessing game of the day. I saw this magic lantern slide on ebay a while back, though I forgot to bid for it. I don't have a magic lantern anyway.
> 
> THIS magic lantern slide!
> 
> 
> 
> I will email the story of the KING STEPHEN to you, its an interesting one!
> Steve
Click to expand...


----------



## mattarosa

*Miramar Ship Index*

I expect most of you ship enthusiasts will already know about this index, but I am posting the link just in case. It does contain fishing vessels, providing they were powered. I looked up Staunton and Atlantic Dolphin and both were there. 

If you click on "About the Miramar Ship Index" it gives you a good explanation of the index.

Happy hunting.

Hilary

http://www.miramarshipindex.org.nz/


----------



## Clem

*Miramar Ship Index*



mattarosa said:


> I expect most of you ship enthusiasts will already know about this index...
> 
> Happy hunting.
> 
> Hilary
> 
> http://www.miramarshipindex.org.nz/


Thanks Hilary, I'll have a play around with that.

Sorry I haven't posted any more vessel details recently, been rushed off my feet.

Best Wishes

Clem


----------



## Steve Farrow

Thanks Hilary, that could be really useful. 
Steve


----------



## mattarosa

Clem said:


> Thanks Hilary, I'll have a play around with that.
> 
> Sorry I haven't posted any more vessel details recently, been rushed off my feet.
> 
> Best Wishes
> 
> Clem


Use it with caution, Clem, like all such things it is well intentioned and represents a huge effort, but it is an index so everything needs to be checked.

I'm supposed to be rushed off my feet as well as I am moving shortly and took the day off to sort out some things, but the spirit and the flesh are both weak so I'm not working as hard as I should be.

This is a tea break!

Hilary


----------



## mattarosa

*Tea break over*

Just because I took a tea break, you didn't all have to go out in sympathy. This is a good forum, so please help to keep it lively!

I thought someone might be interested in this ad by British Trawlers from the 
1950s. Not sure how good the thumbnail will be, but hope you can see it OK.

Hilary


----------



## Steve Farrow

Would that trawler have a skeleton crew?
Steve


----------



## mattarosa

*Lamp*

This lamp was for sale on ebay and I was thinking of bidding on it as I thought it would be good for my new house. It was described as a masthead lamp, made of copper, with E Bacon & Co, Grimsby stamped on it. Would that be the manufacturer?

Would this lamp have been on a trawler?

In the event, I forgot to put in a bid and it was sold for £72. 

Hilary


----------



## mattarosa

Steve Farrow said:


> Would that trawler have a skeleton crew?
> Steve


Very funny!


----------



## Steve Farrow

mattarosa said:


> This lamp was for sale on ebay and I was thinking of bidding on it as I thought it would be good for my new house. It was described as a masthead lamp, made of copper, with E Bacon & Co, Grimsby stamped on it. Would that be the manufacturer?
> 
> Would this lamp have been on a trawler?
> 
> In the event, I forgot to put in a bid and it was sold for £72.
> 
> Hilary


E.Bacon, ie Edwin Bacon, is or are still trading in Grimsby with thier engineering company.
Edwin Bacon senior started out with sailing smacks then put his money into building steam trawlers and the family continued this progress with a fleet of modern North Sea diesel trawlers until the mid- 1980's when the industry all but collapsed. 
This copper mast-head lamp would have been made in thier workshops and looks like a spare ( part of a full set ) which would have been carried in case of emergency. 
Steve


----------



## mattarosa

Steve Farrow said:


> E.Bacon, ie Edwin Bacon, is or are still trading in Grimsby with thier engineering company.
> Edwin Bacon senior started out with sailing smacks then put his money into building steam trawlers and the family continued this progress with a fleet of modern North Sea diesel trawlers until the mid- 1980's when the industry all but collapsed.
> This copper mast-head lamp would have been made in thier workshops and looks like a spare ( part of a full set ) which would have been carried in case of emergency.
> Steve



You are a mine of information. Thank you.


----------



## mattarosa

*Illustrious*

Steve
Re the pic you posted of Ross Illustrious, this grey blur is her being launched.

The Times, Thursday, Apr 07, 1966; pg. 19
The 234ft. freezer trawler Ross Illustrious being launched yesterday at the Ross Group shipyard of Cochrane and Sons at Selby. A diesel trawler built to process 550 tons of fish each trip, the Ross Illustrious will have a service speed of over 14 knots fully loaded. She is the fourth stern-fishing vessel of her kind for the Ross Group fleets at Grimsby and Hull.

I don't think the Illustrious was registered at Grimsby, was it? From your picture it seems to be a Hull registration.

Hilary


----------



## mattarosa

*Records*

Are there any records for the Ross Group anywhere? I think they would have inherited Doigs records, wouldn't they?

I wrote once to the Ross Group asking about this, but they did not reply.

Hilary


----------



## Steve Farrow

*Ross Group*



mattarosa said:


> Are there any records for the Ross Group anywhere? I think they would have inherited Doigs records, wouldn't they?
> 
> I wrote once to the Ross Group asking about this, but they did not reply.
> 
> Hilary


Hi Hilary,
Yes, the Ross Illustrious was Hull registered, H.419. as was the Ross Implacable H.6. & Ross Intrepid, H.353.
Ross Group became swallowed up into British United Trawlers, which was a combination of Hull and Grimsby owners, so what happened to all of their records I don't know. Ross Group bought out Cochranes Shipyard in Selby and I was told that its records are at the Maritime museum in Hull. I also heared that a book is going to be published about that Selby yard and the vessels built there. If it is anything like the book about Cook, Welton & Gemmell, by Michael Thompson, Dave Newton, Richard Robinson & Tony Lofthouse, it will be well worth waiting for. 
Does anybody out there know any more about this second book?
Steve


----------



## mattarosa

Steve Farrow said:


> I also heared that a book is going to be published about that Selby yard and the vessels built there. If it is anything like the book about Cook, Welton & Gemmell, by Michael Thompson, Dave Newton, Richard Robinson & Tony Lofthouse, it will be well worth waiting for.
> Does anybody out there know any more about this second book?
> Steve


Hi Steve
I haven't heard about it, but agree it would be great. Maybe it's the same people? Michael Thompson has done several books. I have a feeling I emailed him once to see if he had a picture of Staunton but I can't find the email now. Someone like Alec Gill might know. You can find him on the Internet. If I see anything I will certainly let you know.
Hilary


----------



## mattarosa

Steve Farrow said:


> Hi Hilary,
> Yes, the Ross Illustrious was Hull registered, H.419. as was the Ross Implacable H.6. & Ross Intrepid, H.353.Steve


Steve
Your picture is called Ross Vanguard and Ross Illustrious, but I think I see H6, which you say is Ross Implacable. I'm confused!

They are fine looking trawlers, whatever their names and numbers. I hope you don't mind but I used this picture as background on my desktop.

This picture was taken in Grimsby wasn't it? What exactly is the stumpy tower in the picture. I collect postcards and have a few that I think have tower in it. I've attached an example.

Hilary


----------



## mattarosa

*Cochranes*

I've been Googling Cochranes a bit. Cochranes Shipyard still exists as a postal address. You can get double glazing there, conservatories, get your car fixed, get a dodgy MOT for all I know. How sad.

Found this exchange on a site called warsailors.com, so hopefully Steve's wish for a book about Cochranes may come true one day, although this is 6 months old. If it is a book like the CWG one, an awful lot of work would be involved.

Q: Are there any books for the ship yard Cochranes of Selby?
A: Not that I know of but I believe the authors who did CWG have been looking at producing one.

Hilary


----------



## Steve Farrow

mattarosa said:


> Steve
> Your picture is called Ross Vanguard and Ross Illustrious, but I think I see H6, which you say is Ross Implacable. I'm confused!
> 
> They are fine looking trawlers, whatever their names and numbers. I hope you don't mind but I used this picture as background on my desktop.
> 
> This picture was taken in Grimsby wasn't it? What exactly is the stumpy tower in the picture. I collect postcards and have a few that I think have tower in it. I've attached an example.
> 
> Hilary


Well spotted. My mistake, I had it written down as the Illustrious and it should read Implacable, I will try and alter it somehow. Thanks for that Hilary.
Steve


----------



## Steve Farrow

mattarosa said:


> Steve
> Your picture is called Ross Vanguard and Ross Illustrious, but I think I see H6, which you say is Ross Implacable. I'm confused!
> 
> They are fine looking trawlers, whatever their names and numbers. I hope you don't mind but I used this picture as background on my desktop.
> 
> This picture was taken in Grimsby wasn't it? What exactly is the stumpy tower in the picture. I collect postcards and have a few that I think have tower in it. I've attached an example.
> 
> Hilary


Your picture shows the Royal Dock Hyraulic Tower and the smaller Hydraulic ac***ulator tower. The latter was built on the opposite side of the lock and was first used in 1892. 
Water was pumped up to large holding tanks in the main dock tower and the huge pressure was used to operate the lock gates and the fifteen dockside cranes and also for salt water hose pipes used for washing down the fish market etc. The smaller ac***ulator tower was of a more efficient design and it soon replaced the Dock Tower as a provider for this water pressure.
The main tower is now a grade1 listed building and the smaller tower a grade 2.
Steve


----------



## mattarosa

Steve Farrow said:


> Your picture shows the Royal Dock Hyraulic Tower and the smaller Hydraulic ac***ulator tower. The latter was built on the opposite side of the lock and was first used in 1892.
> Water was pumped up to large holding tanks in the main dock tower and the huge pressure was used to operate the lock gates and the fifteen dockside cranes and also for salt water hose pipes used for washing down the fish market etc. The smaller ac***ulator tower was of a more efficient design and it soon replaced the Dock Tower as a provider for this water pressure.
> The main tower is now a grade1 listed building and the smaller tower a grade 2.
> Steve


Thank you for the information, very interesting. I have always wondered what that second tower was that I had seen on the postcards.

My postcard collection is best described as motley. I collect postcards from Grimsby, but only if they are to do with fishing; also whalebone arches and beached whales (for the simple reason I was reading Moby Dick at the time I decided to collect postcards, but don't like whale hunting) and fish! I have one which combines Grimsby and the whales, a whale towed into Grimsby by the SS Cetus in 1907. As for the fish, I have them from Cleethorpes, Weymouth, South Shields, Yarmouth, Brighton, Southend, Brightlingsea, Hull, Cromer, Skegness and, of course, Grimsby.

I hope Clem doesn't mind me turning his Grimsby fishing vessel thread into a sentimental journey, but when the cat's away.....!!!

Hilary


----------



## Clem

mattarosa said:


> I hope Clem doesn't mind me turning his Grimsby fishing vessel thread into a sentimental journey, but when the cat's away.....!!!
> 
> Hilary


Keep it up folks, I'm sorry I'm not posting right now, It's all very interesting. Steve, your knowledge of the Grimsby scene is fantastic. 

I'm looking in now and then and, this all makes fascinating reading.

Regards

Clem


----------



## Steve Farrow

It was you who pointed me to this wonderful web site Clem, and I am ever grateful.....not getting much painting done though! It's a bit addictive.
Steve


----------



## mattarosa

Steve Farrow said:


> It was you who pointed me to this wonderful web site Clem, and I am ever grateful.....not getting much painting done though! It's a bit addictive.
> Steve


I've been as quiet as a mouse all day. You should have done 3 paintings 
ha ha ha


----------



## mattarosa

mattarosa said:


> I've been as quiet as a mouse all day.


I'm awake now, though!

I've just been looking in the gallery. Great paintings of Pintail and Red Falcon, Steve. Was Pintail one of the Gamecock Fleet? I've read the book called Red Charger, which might have been a sister ship to Red Falcon?

Wully F also posted a great picture of a Grimsby ?trawler GY120 Eventide. It say gillnetter, of which I have never heard. I've heard of sidewinders and beam trawling, and stern trawling and lining and seine netting, but gillnetter is a new one on me. I've obviously still got a lot to learn!

Hilary


----------



## Steve Farrow

mattarosa said:


> I'm awake now, though!
> 
> I've just been looking in the gallery. Great paintings of Pintail and Red Falcon, Steve. Was Pintail one of the Gamecock Fleet? I've read the book called Red Charger, which might have been a sister ship to Red Falcon?
> 
> Wully F also posted a great picture of a Grimsby ?trawler GY120 Eventide. It say gillnetter, of which I have never heard. I've heard of sidewinders and beam trawling, and stern trawling and lining and seine netting, but gillnetter is a new one on me. I've obviously still got a lot to learn!
> 
> Hilary


Although the PINTAIL was Hull registered, she was sailing out of Fleetwood with a fleetwood crew and was owned by Brixham Trawlers Ltd. There is an account of this rescue and the wreck itself and many others in a small book that Tommy Cecil wrote "The Harsh Winds of Rathlin" in 1993. Tommy died after a dive (the bends) on 21st September 1997, aged 51.
Can't post any more pics until tomorrw.....quota's up!
Steve


----------



## mattarosa

*Loveden*

Steve
You have been posting some terrific pictures, again. I hope you have an endless supply as I can't get enough of them!

Your posting of a picture of Loveden reminds me of a story I read about the Loveden involving "piracy". I'll see if I can dig it up and post it.

Hilary


----------



## Steve Farrow

Hilary,
It's the same old story. I didn't press the shutter enough when I was surrounded by all those ships. I have thousands of photo's of fishing vessels but the vast majority I didn't take and don't know who holds the copyright.There are still some more to post though!
Steve


----------



## mattarosa

*Piracy on the high seas*

On Monday, Jul 11, 1966, the following snippet appeared in the Times:

S.O.S. TRAWLER FOUND
The Grimsby trawler Loveden, which sent out an S.O.S. on Saturday from fifty miles north-east of the Humber, was found yesterday off the German coast after an air-sea search.

What happened was a rare story of piracy. In fact, in the course of this story, the Times found it necessary to explain what piracy is, as follows:

The Times, Thursday, Jul 14, 1966; pg. 1
Our Legal Correspondent writes:-
Piracy is robbery on the high seas. It has always been an international offence since pirates act in waters which do not belong to any sovereign state. Even in recent years there have been many prosecutions, though the offence has been more common in the China seas than in the waters surrounding Britain.

In the course of telling this story, I am not going to reveal the names of those involved. After all, 1966 is not so long ago (I was a teenage Beatlemaniac at the time) and some of the people may still be alive. But I think the story is worth retelling as a colourful example of some of the more unusual things that happened on board Grimsby trawlers.

What happened was summed up by the prosecution at Grimsby Magistrates’ Court on 27 July 1966.

Mr Christopher Bourke, for the prosecution, in a case at Grimsby Magistrates’ Court yesterday, in which five men were charged with piracy on the high seas, said that as the skipper of a trawler was tuning into the wireless he was seized and overpowered, and tied hand and foot in his cabin.
They were charged jointly that between July 8 and 11 upon the high seas they assaulted and put in fear of their lives certain mariners, namely the skipper, the mate, the chief engineer, an engineer and the cook, in a British ship, the fishing trawler Loveden, and stole certain goods from the ship.
The charge said they stole a lifeboat and its contents, and a pair of binoculars, cigarettes and cigars, paraffin, beer and orange juice, a £10 note, 15s in cash, and a holdall, the property of the various mariners.
‘Effects of drink’
Mr Bourke said that happily in modern times the charge of piracy did not overcrowd the assize lists but there were crimes from time to time on the high seas in which there were such elements of violence, confinement, the fear of the victims, of theft and other well-known rudiments of piracy that clearly it was the only charge to be used.
The fishing trawler Loveden sailed from Grimsby on Saturday, July 9, for the North Sea fishing grounds. There was a crew of 10 – the five accused and the five men mentioned in the charge.
During the course of that afternoon the five accused were seen drinking both beer and wine.
There was a provision for a beer ration for the men but it was irregular for them to have wine in their possession. There was no doubt that by the late afternoon they were suffering from the effects of the drink.
“About five o’clock when the skipper was in the wireless room, which is next to his cabin, he was visited by one of the “pirates”, who asked for a wireless message to be sent to his mother.
“The skipper was ready to do this and was tuning to the Humber Radio when 2 of the “pirates” came to the wireless room and overpowered him and tied him hand and foot and carried him into his cabin and there left him on his bunk.”
About 10 minutes later the cook, who had gone to the bridge in response to a message from one of the “pirates”, was taken to the skipper’s cabin similarly trussed.
The cook freed himself twice and the skipper tried to send a distress signal after which they were fastened about the neck with ropes and led like cattle to the forehold where the trawler nets are stored and were confined there in the darkness for the next few hours.
Lifeboat lowered
The mate, who went to his cabin from the bridge in response to the message from one of the defendants, found one of the “pirates”, who overpowered him and left him locked in his cabin. He was later taken to the forehold, where he joined the skipper and cook.
They were returned to the cook’s cabin and later sighted land, thought to be the German coast. The defendants lowered the lifeboat and rowed for shore.
Mr Bourke said: “After being detained at various places abroad these five men were returned to this country and have since been held in custody and come before you today charged with piracy.”

Various lists of what was taken were published, with and without the orange juice. The most comprehensive was this one:

A lifeboat, a pair of binoculars, an electric drill, a quantity of spanners, and other stores, namely 2,540 cigarettes, 40 cigars, 5 ¾ lb of tobacco, a gross of matches, five gallons of paraffin, and 192 bottles of beer; and that they also stole (from individuals on the Lovedon) a cap, an electric torch, a cigarette lighter, a quantity of provisions, a holdall, a pair of binoculars, and £10 15s.

Other reports say it was a cloth cap (there must have been a fashion victim aboard) and that the £10 15s included a £10 note.

The Loveden returned to Grimsby, as did the pirates not very long after.

The Times, Wednesday, Jul 13, 1966; pg. 12
Trawler boarded by police
From Our Correspondent
Grimsby, July 12
After the Grimsby trawler Loveden arrived back in port today the skipper said that he was bound and locked in his cabin on Saturday while five members of the crew took one of the trawler’s boats and rowed towards the German coast.
The trawler, owned by E Bacon and Co., left Grimsby on Saturday. Before the radio was put out of action a distress signal had been sent out and a 30-hour search for the vessel followed.
“We were six hours out of Grimsby”, the skipper said, “when the mate, myself and the cook were seized by five men, bound and locked up. The men took a boat and started to row towards the German coast. After they had left we were released by the engineer.”
Mr Jack Winn, for the owners, said that after the trawler had arrived home it was boarded by the police and statements taken from the remaining crew. The five men who left the trawler would be replaced and the trawler would set sail again this week. 
* * *
Our Bonn Correspondent writes:-
Five men from the Loveden, who spent Monday night in gaol in Bremen, were taken on board the Swedish ferryboat Prince Hamlet, bound for Harwich, last night. They are due to arrive there this morning.

On the same day, the Times printed a picture of the 5 pirates disembarking from a west German police vessel at Emden Harbour yesterday. They were later extradited back to Britain.

The pirates were eventually committed for trial.

The Times, Friday, Jul 29, 1966; pg. 6
Five trawler men sent for trial
Five members of the crew of the Grimsby trawler Loveden were committed for trial to Buckinghamshire Assizes by Grimsby Magistrates yesterday on charges alleging piracy.
>
>
A defence certificate for two counsel was granted to each of the accused. Bail was granted to two of the men on condition, to which they agreed, that they surrendered their port record books, reported to the police twice a week, and found a surety for £100 each with their own recognizances of £100 each.
The other three men were committed in custody.

The case was heard in Aylesbury on 5 October 1966. One man was discharged and the rest were imprisoned for several years. The sentence on two of the men could not start until they had completed an existing sentence for housebreaking.

One of the men appealed in January 1967 but his appeal failed and he had to serve 63 extra days, which was the period he spent in prison as an applicant for appeal. Apparently he had 9 previous convictions.

I’m sorry this story is so long winded, but it was obviously felt to be an important case by the self-righteous Times (the piracy was stated to be “against the peace of our Sovereign Lady the Queen, her Crown, and Dignity.”), and received a lot of coverage.

A year later, there was another incident on board the Loveden, which was reported as follows:

The Times, Monday, Feb 13, 1967; pg. 4
POLICE TAKE MAN OFF TRAWLER
The Grimsby trawler Loveden which was hijacked by five crew members at sea last July has had to return to port from the North Sea fishing grounds after more trouble on board. Police went out to her by tug as she arrived off the port, arrested a fisherman, and took him ashore. He will appear in court today charged with an offence concerning damaged equipment.

Something to read over your Sunday breakfast, anyway.

Hilary


----------



## mattarosa

*Pictures*

Good morning Steve
I have been looking at your pictures this morning, probably just as you were posting them as I saw the 9 new photos change to 10 when I arrived and when I looked the 10th was one of yours.

Even when your pictures are not of Grimsby trawlers, I find them vibrant and real. You were able to get up so close and obviously had a good camera and a good eye.

Like you, I wish you had spent your entire boyhood and young manhood wandering around the docks taking pictures of everything that moved, and some things which didn't. But life has to be lived as well as recorded!

I think we trawler lovers are lucky that there are so many pictures around, and so many generous people who are willing to share them, either by publishing them, selling them, or just emailing them to interested people.

I suspect there is another haul of photos kicking around ex-trawlermen's homes, maybe not of the best quality, but historic nevertheless. They will all disappear soon, I suspect, as they get thrown out following deaths. A friend told me recently his father used to use old photographs as coasters before he died. Pity we can't gather them up and copy them first. Can't you persuade your Telegraph friend to start a campaign to collect and archive them? Or the local history library?

After all, you don't have half enough to do!!!!!!

Sites like this do a lot to preserve the past, of course.

Hilary


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## mattarosa

*Senior Member Steve*

I forgot to congratulate you on becoming a Senior Member.

That cardigan really suits you!


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## Steve Farrow

Hi Hilary,
Follow that,as they say. Where do I start? The LOVEDEN incident I suppose.
I was in the chart room of the LA COLINA, an iron-ore carrier, when the news came on the radio. I was the only Grimsby crew member and got quite a lot of stick over this.......potential pirate ( mutineer was the term ) in their midst and all that!
Back home it was obviously a big story for the media, but most people put it down to too much booze and stupidity. Ater all, ahere could they have gone? So, they had to be made examples of, and rightly so. I remember talking to Ross Bacon of Lindsey Trawlers and he said he was in the Merchant Navy at the time, steaming up the English Channel when it was on the radio. He said he blurted out " Thats one of my old mans ****** ships"!
But he saw the funny side of it.
Thanks for the compliment about my pics, but I only really tried to capture those amazing ships. I used a Zorki 4K in the mid-seventies, it was a Russian copy of a Leica and had a fantastic Jupiter lens. Then came an Olympes OM 10 a lot more advanced but I never achieved the same quality. Others came and went until I discovered digital in the way of a Canon Shureshot G5. What a super little camera ( still use it ) My latest is the Olympus E-500 series.......also brilliant. All that is missing are the subjects we loved to snap the most. 
I know a few collectors of trawler photo's but it is often their choice to keep then in their albums and closed. I respect that, but these are often 'skipped' when they die. 
The Telegraph have a good selection but so many were thrown out accidentally a few years ago and lost forever. They are protective of their copyright because it is there to make money.
In my ignorance I don't really know what a senior member is!
Steve


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## trotterdotpom

*Loveden*

Thanks for reminding us of the Loveden incident, Hilary. I seem to recall that, at the time, there was still a death penalty for piracy, so the lengthy sentences the buccaneers received were actually the soft option. 

The story seems quite comical now but imagine being tied up in the dark on a ship being commanded by drunks - pretty scary. Hang on that reminds me of......never mind!

The courts could be quite strict on fishermen though - the Grimsby Telegraph used to be full of reports like "Fred Blogs was fined one pound for being a disobedient fisherman when he did not show up for sailing time", etc.

John T.


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## mattarosa

Steve Farrow said:


> In my ignorance I don't really know what a senior member is! Steve


I think it means you have posted over 100 messages. For a chatterbox like me that is no prob.

Are you posting mystery pics now? You posted a lovely thumbnail but no name. Is it Galilaean, which is very hard to spell.

You seem to have recorded quite a lot of trawlers on their absolutely last legs, just before they were burnt up, redolent with rust yet still looking robust. Steve Pulfrey did " Grimsby Trawlers: Final Years of the Side Trawler" but you could do an update on that. "Grimsby Trawlers: Romantic Rust" would be a good title.

Actually, I did have an idea for another book. You mentioned pleasure trips you went on, and I know a lot of Grimsby youngsters went on such trips. It seems incredible now. Political Correctness and Health and Safety regulations would never allow it. I think it would be great if someone collected some of these stories and illustrated it with photos of trawlers that they had got from their friend at the Telegraph, or paintings that they had done themselves. Hey, I think I have even thought of someone that could do it ha ha. With the interest generated by the TV series The Trawlermen, maybe it might even become a best seller.

Seriously, I don't blame the Telegraph for guarding their copyright. Modern technology must be quite a challenge to them as it is all too easy to scan and distribute pictures and people forget about copyright. There is still quite a big market for books though, I see so many of them on ebay and Amazon and they fetch good prices. Maybe one way to make money out of their pictures would be to publish books using some of the pictures. I'd buy them.

There you are - a whole library full of hypothetical books. I have a fertile imagination when I have time. I gave myself the morning off after three solid days of sorting/packing, but my time is nearly up, so I better get going. Next shift starts at noon.

Happy Sunday!
Hilary


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## mattarosa

trotterdotpom said:


> The courts could be quite strict on fishermen though - the Grimsby Telegraph used to be full of reports like "Fred Blogs was fined one pound for being a disobedient fisherman when he did not show up for sailing time", etc. John T.



Hi John
I spent several Saturdays in the British Library Newspaper Library in Colindale poring through Grimsby Telegraphs looking for one such report, but having no idea of the date of the incident, I could never find it. All that was remembered by the person asking me to look was the headline that was something along the lines of "Three best-dressed fishermen...." and something like missed the boat or failed to sail or some such. 

I agree with you it must have been frightening to be trussed up and locked up. If anything had happened to the ship, those people would have been completely helpless. One of the newspaper reports, to increase the readers' understanding of the full horror, pointed out that the skipper and the crew that were the victims were in their fifties. There was a definite suspicion that they meant victimisation of the elderly and aged. Being in my fifties now, that bit isn't quite so funny!

Hilary


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## Steve Farrow

Hi Hilary,
Sorry, but I thought I'd typed the name....Yes it's the GALILAEN, one of Sir Thomas Robinson's middle water ships. I will get back to the site after I have burnt the dinner!
Steve


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## trotterdotpom

mattarosa said:


> ...... One of the newspaper reports, to increase the readers' understanding of the full horror, pointed out that the skipper and the crew that were the victims were in their fifties. There was a definite suspicion that they meant victimisation of the elderly and aged. Being in my fifties now, that bit isn't quite so funny!
> 
> Hilary


Thanks Hilary. I felt quite spry until I read that!

John T.


----------



## dunbar

Hello daveb

Re- Skipper J.C. Monger

MBE 02.01.1956 New Year 56
DSC 22.12.1942 for GOOD SERVICES IN MINESWEEPING, THE NORE 10.42

01.02.1940 (08.1942) HMS RED SKY Admiralty Wood Drifter (Minesweeping)
10.1942 ! HMS COLONSAY (MINESWEEPING BASE, GRIMSBY)

07.1945 No appointment listed

Fishing Skipper, Research Vessel 'Ernest Holt' Ministery of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food 1950s.

T/Skipper 07.11.1939 A/T/Ch Skpr 06.01.1944

Born Tendring Essex 18.05.1903 Died Grimsby 05.1989

Hope this helps

Regards John


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## mattarosa

trotterdotpom said:


> Thanks Hilary. I felt quite spry until I read that!
> 
> John T.


I'm moving house, the packers are due tomorrow, and I am so tired, I may never feel spry again!

Hilary


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## mattarosa

*Laforey*

In accordance with my habit of posting whatever bits of information I have about the trawlers Steve posts pictures of, here is an item from the Times about the Laforey. There may have been further news in the following days, if so I missed it.

The Times, Tuesday, Feb 09, 1954; pg. 6
CREW OF 20 MISSING
From our correspondent
Grimsby, Feb 8
The 609-ton trawler Laforey of Derwent Trawlers, Ltd., Grimsby, has been found capsized at Sendingen, west of Floro, according to a message received here late today from the agents at Bergen. There was no trace of the crew of 20. A salvage vessel was stated to be on the scene and two Norwegian lifeboats were searching for the crew, who might have taken to their own boats.
One of the first to pick up the Laforey's distress call was Mr. H. Short, general manager of the Rinovia Steam Fishing Company of Grimsby. While awaiting a call to one of his company's vessels, Mr Short was operating a short-wave radio receiver when he heard a repeated distress signal from the Laforey followed by the announcement, "We have gone ashore. Urgently need assistance." As the position of the vessel was being given the signal faded.
The Laforey was commanded by Skipper W. Mogg, of Carr Lane, Grimsby, one of the port's best known skippers. He has on board with him as mate his son Kenneth, aged 32, who lives in Queen Mary Avenue, Grimsby, and was married last July. Skipper Mogg, aged 57, was in command of minesweepers during the war and was awarded the D.S.C. and the M.B.E. for his services.
* * *

There is an account of the loss of the Laforey on the Arctic Corsair website:

http://www.arcticcorsair.f9.co.uk/corsair/index.htm

On 7 Feb 2004 The Grimsby Telegraph marked the 50th anniversary of the sinking of the trawler with a detailed account.

Hilary


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## Clem

*GY85 Laforey*



mattarosa said:


> On 7 Feb 2004 The Grimsby Telegraph marked the 50th anniversary of the sinking of the trawler with a detailed account.
> 
> Hilary


Thanks for posting that Hilary. I hope everyone who reads of her loss reflects, for a moment, on what must have been the terrible last moments of life for the crew, and for the crews of more recent losses. Some of whom have already been mentioned here, on Ships Nostalgia.

R.I.P. the crew of Laforey


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## Steve Farrow

My sentiments also. I worked with an ex-skipper called Herbert Craven many years ago, and they had just landed when he heared that the LAFOREY had been lost with all hands. His son was on her as deckie-learner. I don't think Herbert went to sea much after that. He never got over it.
Steve


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## WLH

Can anyone help with a photograph of Strathallan GN15, she landed in Grimsby around 1960's: Kingston Cyanite H237. James Brodigan H142.
will appreciate any assistance.
Regards....................WLH


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## K urgess

*The Girl Pat*

Can anyone shed any light on this news story from 1936, please.

I know nothing more than is written in the caption. I came across it while sorting some ancient magazines for the bin.


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## Clem

*Girl Pat*



Marconi Sahib said:


> Can anyone shed any light on this news story from 1936, please.
> 
> I know nothing more than is written in the caption. I came across it while sorting some ancient magazines for the bin.


Hi there. Wully started a thread about the Girl Pat in 'Fishing Vessels.'

http://www.shipsnostalgia.com/showthread.php?t=6805

In this thread I posted a link to the BBC website, where you can listen to an article recorded for Radio 4, telling of the Girl Pat's epic journey across the Atlantic to Devils Island amongst other places.

I never knew she'd stopped off at Lowestoft.

Regards

Clem


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## mattarosa

Marconi Sahib said:


> Can anyone shed any light on this news story from 1936, please.
> 
> I know nothing more than is written in the caption. I came across it while sorting some ancient magazines for the bin.


Hi Fubar
Clem has already directed you to the BBC's Making History programme about the Girl Pat. You will find other stuff too if you Google it.

Of course, the Times had a lot to say about it as the story caught the imagination of everyone. I had the packers in today as I am moving house and now I'm supposed to be making things shipshape but instead I borrowed a chair from my neighbour so I could respond to this. My computer has not yet been disconnected and is sitting on a shelf all forlorn, the only portable thing left in an empty flat (except for me).

The Times reported heavily on the trial of the Orsbornes who stole the Girl Pat. I don't have time to go into all that. But here is an editorial which I think sums up most people's feelings about the incident. Stealing a ship is very naughty but this was kind of FUN.

The Times, Friday, Oct 23, 1936; pg. 15
The Girl Pat
Autumn is upon us, but for the past four days the Old Bailey has put up a spirited rearguard action against the encroaching drabness of the season. Mystery and adventure are always in demand, and the prosecution of George Black Orsborne, mariner, and James Black Orsborne, grocer - who were yesterday sentenced to eighteen months' and twelve months' hard labour respectively - has provided a wealth of both. It is difficult not to entertain a sneaking gratitude towards the two men whose curious and unsuccessful adventure has sent us all vicariously sailing on a desperate mission across tropic seas. The little trawler's voyage of 8,000 miles began at Grimsby on April 1, and she seems never quite to have shaken off the associations connected with that date. She carried a crew of four. On the subject of his plans George Orsborne seems to have been at times suspiciously reticent, and at others suspiciously voluble. At Corcubion in Spain the log was tampered wtih and false names were given; and later the crew disguised their ship with a coat of white paint. They were headed now for the African coast, and the elder Orsborne was talking vaguely of fishing for pearls at Capetwon. The end of May found them at Dakar, where Orsborne seems to have feared unpleasantness on the part of the natives. Here one of the crew went ashore sick. With that strange aimlessness which has been a feature of the case the Girl Pat then crossed the South Atlantic, changed her name to the Kia Ora, and arrived off Georgetown in Btitish Guiana. By this time the eyes of the world were upon her - or would have been upon her if the world had known where she was - and an aeroplane came out to identify the truant. That was the end of the voyage. The Orsborned had had a run for somebody else's money; but none of their various alleged schemes - pearl-fishing, smuggling, gun-running - had come to a head, and the Girl Pat had not been sold.
The elder Orsborne claims to have accepted an offer of £5,000 for the "rights" in his remarkable story, and the Judge, in his summing-up, commented severely on the thoughtlessness of any newspaper proprietor capable of making such an offer in such cir***stances. It would indeed be a dangerous and foolish precedent to establish, since it might conceivably encourage other would-be adventurers to spectacular breaches of the law. But it would be difficult to emulate the Orsbornes. Apart from the length of their voyage and their happy-go-lucky methods (they appear to have relied entirely on a small school atlas for navigation purposes), they maintained to the end an air at once tough and enigmatic. They kidnapped a ship; and, though others may do the same with greater skill and in even more romantic cir***stances, it will be no easy task to make fact - as the Orsbornes have - so very much stranger than the fiction which it powerfully suggests.

Hilary


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## mattarosa

*Ancient magazines*

Fubar
I hope no ancient magazines are going in the bin without being checked for wonderful stories and pictures like the one you found!
Hilary


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## K urgess

Thanks, Clem

Great story. Now that I've heard it it rings a distant bell.

Since she was built in Lowestoft (according to the BBC) and she looks very new in the photo, it could have been taken just before delivery.

Cheers


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## K urgess

Hilary

Many thanks for the extra info. I listened to the BBC programme while posting my reply to Clem so missed your posting until I'd finished mine.

Don't worry, I scour these magazines with a magnifying glass for interesting titbits. I was thinking of starting an "Old News" thread to rival Rushie's latest pickings from the media.

Cheers


----------



## Clem

*Girl Pat*



mattarosa said:


> The Times reported heavily on the trial of the Orsbornes who stole the Girl Pat. I don't have time to go into all that.
> 
> Hilary


Hi Hilary, I hope your move is going well, good luck in your new home.

If you ever do get time, would it be possible to email me or post the trial reports that the Times published. I know someone, apart from myself, who'll be very interested to read what went on.

Regards

Clem


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## Steve Farrow

mattarosa said:


> Fubar
> I hope no ancient magazines are going in the bin without being checked for wonderful stories and pictures like the one you found!
> Hilary


I found an old Telegragh article about our 'GIRL PAT'. It was written by one of the ex- Editors, Peter Chapman. I have scanned it and will post it in the gallery because of my atrocious typing skills!
Steve


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## mattarosa

Clem said:


> Hi Hilary, I hope your move is going well, good luck in your new home.
> 
> If you ever do get time, would it be possible to email me or post the trial reports that the Times published. I know someone, apart from myself, who'll be very interested to read what went on.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Clem


Clem
I am moving to temporary "lodgings" for a few weeks, and hope to move into my new house before Christmas. The place I am going has no phone, so no Internet!!!!!

I will still be able to get access at work in lunch hours and after hours, so will try to keep up. Will also post or mail you the reports you have requested.

Hilary


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## mattarosa

Steve Farrow said:


> I found an old Telegragh article about our 'GIRL PAT'. It was written by one of the ex- Editors, Peter Chapman. I have scanned it and will post it in the gallery because of my atrocious typing skills!
> Steve


Steve 
You have painted so much of Grimsby's history. Have you ever done exhibitions?

Also, have you ever painted Etruria? If not, maybe that could be the one after Atlantic Dolphin (it's a 4-bedroom house!!!).

Hilary


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## Steve Farrow

Hi Hilary,
I had an exhibition at the National Fishing Heritage Centre last year that ran for about eight weeks. It went very well I'm glad to say. 
As to the ETRURIA, there were two. The first was built in 1893 and was sold Blyth before going to France and the second was built in 1930 as the Hull trawler LADY ELSA. I have'nt painted either of them, but it could be arranged! I have attached a thumbnail of my latest one, the NORTHERN QUEEN
Steve


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## roy roberts

Hi Clem
Just sending a bit of info on the Grimsby trawler Cradock. Built by Cochrane of Selby in 1936 as Admiral Drake fishing out of Hull name changed that year to Stella Canopus. 418 gross tons 152-8 ft in length. 1946 transferred to Grimsby fishing number GY263 name changed to Cradock same year. In 1954 transferred back to Hull renamed again as Stella Rigel. 1955 transferred again back to Grimsby and given the name Cradock again GY11. 1960 to Belgium probally as scrap. I sailed on her around 1956 under the command of skipper Tommy Morgan .
Roy Roberts


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## Steve Farrow

roy roberts said:


> Hi Clem
> Just sending a bit of info on the Grimsby trawler Cradock. Built by Cochrane of Selby in 1936 as Admiral Drake fishing out of Hull name changed that year to Stella Canopus. 418 gross tons 152-8 ft in length. 1946 transferred to Grimsby fishing number GY263 name changed to Cradock same year. In 1954 transferred back to Hull renamed again as Stella Rigel. 1955 transferred again back to Grimsby and given the name Cradock again GY11. 1960 to Belgium probally as scrap. I sailed on her around 1956 under the command of skipper Tommy Morgan .
> Roy Roberts


Hi Roy,
Have'nt seen you for a while now mate, hope you are well and look forward to your postings here.
I want to pick your brains on the THORNWICK BAY in the near future, if I remember right you did sail on her didn't you?
Steve


----------



## Clem

*GY263 Cradock*



roy roberts said:


> Hi Clem
> Just sending a bit of info on the Grimsby trawler Cradock. Built by Cochrane of Selby in 1936 as Admiral Drake fishing out of Hull name changed that year to Stella Canopus. 418 gross tons 152-8 ft in length. 1946 transferred to Grimsby fishing number GY263 name changed to Cradock same year. In 1954 transferred back to Hull renamed again as Stella Rigel. 1955 transferred again back to Grimsby and given the name Cradock again GY11. 1960 to Belgium probally as scrap. I sailed on her around 1956 under the command of skipper Tommy Morgan .
> Roy Roberts


Welcome to you Roy, thanks for posting the info. on your old ship, Cradock. One of my relatives worked on her from '47, till he was called up for National Service. The skipper then was Bill Mogg and his son-in-law, Tommy Evans, was Mate. Bill's son Ken was deckie at that time. They were fishing the White Sea, and getting some good trips in.

What was the old girl like when you were on her, were you still going far afield?

Nice of you to join us here, hope you enjoy this site and tell us all a few yarns.

Best wishes

Clem


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## roy roberts

*cradock*



Clem said:


> Welcome to you Roy, thanks for posting the info. on your old ship, Cradock. One of my relatives worked on her from '47, till he was called up for National Service. The skipper then was Bill Mogg and his son-in-law, Tommy Evans, was Mate. Bill's son Ken was deckie at that time. They were fishing the White Sea, and getting some good trips in.
> 
> What was the old girl like when you were on her, were you still going far afield?
> 
> Nice of you to join us here, hope you enjoy this site and tell us all a few yarns.
> 
> Best wishes
> 
> Clem


Hi again Clem,
While i was on the Cradock she was fishing the Faroe Islands but still earning good money as Tommy Morgan was a top skipper fishing these grounds. I changed over with him when he took command of the Kashmir on her maiden voyage. I was with him about two years.
Roy


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## mattarosa

*New info*

I have got some new (to me) info about Atlantic Seal and Dolphin and some of the Saxons (all Doig-built) which I will post when I have chance (over the weekend, I hope).

Does anyone know what the fate of the Dolphin was? We've already touched on the fate of the Seal.

Hilary


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## Steve Farrow

The last I heared of the ATLANTIC DOLPHIN was when she was sold to Peru. I will attempt to find more on this one
Steve


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## mattarosa

Steve Farrow said:


> The last I heared of the ATLANTIC DOLPHIN was when she was sold to Peru. I will attempt to find more on this one
> Steve



I'd be really interested to know. 

Did you ever have any further thoughts on mum's trawler? Do you think it might have been the one I said?

The one I have already forgotten the name of!!!!!!!

Hilary


----------



## mattarosa

mattarosa said:


> Did you ever have any further thoughts on mum's trawler? Do you think it might have been the one I said?
> 
> The one I have already forgotten the name of!!!!!!!
> 
> Benvolio, mined off the Humber 23 Feb 1940. I think it was Hull registered. I'll see if I can find a picture and ask her if she recognises it!!!!!
> 
> Hilary


----------



## mattarosa

mattarosa said:


> mattarosa said:
> 
> 
> 
> Did you ever have any further thoughts on mum's trawler? Do you think it might have been the one I said?
> 
> The one I have already forgotten the name of!!!!!!!
> 
> Benvolio, mined off the Humber 23 Feb 1940. I think it was Hull registered. I'll see if I can find a picture and ask her if she recognises it!!!!!
> 
> Hilary
> 
> 
> 
> Do you think this is it? Built 1930? I'm not very good at the technical side, being more of a romantic!!!
> 
> http://www.fleetwood-trawlers.connectfree.co.uk/benvolio.html
Click to expand...


----------



## Steve Farrow

Not her Hilary, she was built in 1949! Too late. It will be an difficult task to pin that one down. So many ships were sunk in the Humber and of course they could have come from almost anywhere. If you had a specific date it would be very helpful. I will peruse!
Steve


----------



## mattarosa

Steve Farrow said:


> Not her Hilary, she was built in 1949! Too late. It will be an difficult task to pin that one down. So many ships were sunk in the Humber and of course they could have come from almost anywhere. If you had a specific date it would be very helpful. I will peruse!
> Steve


Don't spend too much time on it. Mum is not even sure it was a trawler!

Have a great weekend.

Hilary


----------



## treeve

Hello, I am looking for three Belgian built PZ reg fishing vessels,
I have trawled through the MAFF/DEFRA lists 1996-2006 and come
up with 14 Belgian built vessels; four of them became GY Reg.
Please can anyone tell me if any of these were PZ169 Carlisa,
PZ303 Barenne II or PZ388 Semper Paratus?

GY154 Bounty B13544 1985 / GY127 Jenny en Aaltine / GY89 Cornelis Gert Jan [1996-2006]
GY269 De Kaper B13827 1986 / DS10 Albion B13827 1986 [1997-2005]
GY1463 Black Jack C17019 1987 [2001-2006]
GY902 Morning Star C17435 ???? [2002-2006]

Thank you, Best Wishes, Raymond


----------



## fishdockroad

*Drypool Eng, Dry Dock Co Ltd, Hull*

Hi there,

once again I'm poaching information rather than offering any but am hoping someone may be able to clear something up for me. Five or so years ago I got my hands on two Makers plaques. The gentleman said that they came off the Ross Panther. The first was a large Ruston and Hornby makers plaque who I know did build a lot of the engines. The second one however was as my title 'Drypool Eng, Dry Dock Co Ltd, Hull 1960'. Earlier investigations by myself have led me more to believe that The Ross Panther was built by Cochranes of Selby???? If anyone can clear this up and offer any info regarding the said company I'd greatly appreciate it.

Fishdockroad


----------



## Steve Farrow

*Ross Panther*

All I can offer is that the ROSS PANTHER was definately built by Cochranes of Selby in 1958, and her engines were Ruston & Hornby, but the Drypool Engineering Company built and repaired working vessels.ie, they lengthened the ROSS KANDAHAR in 1963. The thumbnail is the builders plate on the ROSS JAGUAR.
Steve


----------



## Roger Griffiths

Hello,
By coincidence there a number of similar artifacts being offered on e-bay

http://search.ebay.co.uk/search/sea.../ws/&fkr=1&from=R8&satitle=trawler&category0=

I wonder?

Roger


----------



## Steve Farrow

Hi Roger, 

You make an interesting point! I have another photo showing the ROSS TIGER'S plate, which is identical to the ROSS JAGUAR'S. I really can't understand where the Drypool comes from? If you zoom in on the image all will be revealed!
Steve


----------



## 2548hopw

*Grimsby Trawlers*

I have a lovely original painting of the GY623 "S.T Regardo" built in 1923. The painting is titled "Safely Home" dated 1950, and shows the said vessel entering Grimsby. Artist M.M. Thornton. If you want a copy I will have a go at scanning it etc and sending it to you. Cheers Steve


----------



## Clem

2548hopw said:


> I have a lovely original painting of the GY623 "S.T Regardo" built in 1923. The painting is titled "Safely Home" dated 1950, and shows the said vessel entering Grimsby. Artist M.M. Thornton. If you want a copy I will have a go at scanning it etc and sending it to you. Cheers Steve


Hi Steve, I'd certainly be interested in seeing this painting.

Regards

Clem


----------



## Clem

*GY365 Etruria*

Hi Hilary, welcome back, not seen you around for a couple of days.

Here's the spec of GY365 Etruria:

Official Number: 162195 
Port of Registry: Grimsby
Number: GY365
Name: Etruria
Callsign: GRQT
Type: Steam Trawler	
Built: 08/30
By: Cook Welton & Gemmell Ltd. Beverley
Gross Tonnage: 373
Net Tonnage: 158
Length: 143.5 ft.
Beam: 24.7 ft.
Draught: 13.2 ft.
(Note: Measurements are in Feet and Tenths of Feet)
Engines: T 3cy. 96 RHP
By: C.D. Holmes & Co. Ltd. Hull
Owner: Great Grimsby & East Coast Steam Fishing Co. Ltd.
Comments: Built as H287 Lady Elsa for Jutland Amalgamated Trawlers Ltd. Hull; 02/37 to Grimsby registered as GY365; 06/37 renamed Etruria; Hired as Auxiliary Patrol Trawler 05/40; Boom Defence Vessel 11/40-02/46; 1953 to Belgium
Fate: Scrapped 1953?


----------



## Steve Farrow

*Regardo*



Clem said:


> Hi Steve, I'd certainly be interested in seeing this painting.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Clem


Hi Clem,
That name brings back memories! Did my first trip ( and second & third ) on the REGARDO when I was thirteen, in the summer of 1960. The Hull trawler St. HUBERT trawled up a mine and it blew up, killing several of her crew on 29.8.1960. Survivors were taken off but the ship foundered. As a young lad hearing this on the radio, I looked at every haul with eyes like saucers , and sure enough 'half a mine' dropped on the deck! Harmless as it was, the skipper, Tommy Darwood, took a gutting knife and carved slices of this grey stuff and after drying it out over the galley stove ( I was hiding with my fingers in my ears by this time! ) he took it and placed it in a bucket on the fore-deck and told one of the deckies to through a match in it. He refused, so the mate stepped in and did the deed. I have never seen such a rush of flame skywards, before or since! I was later told that he ( the skipper ) blew up the galley stove on the AMPULLA a couple of years previous. 
Funny how little things remain in your memory!
Steve 
She was built in 1915 and not 1923.


----------



## Roger Griffiths

Steve Farrow said:


> Hi Roger,
> 
> You make an interesting point! I have another photo showing the ROSS TIGER'S plate, which is identical to the ROSS JAGUAR'S. I really can't understand where the Drypool comes from? If you zoom in on the image all will be revealed!
> Steve



Hello Steve,
A quick search of A2A reveals the following
http://www.a2a.org.uk/search/do***e...l&keyword=Drypool Engineering&properties=0601

You will note that Drypool ( who as far as I know never built a fishing vessel) took over Cochranes in 1969. Since all the CAT class were built by Cochranes between 1957 and 1960. I find the seller on E-Bays claim that it was the ORIGINAL MAKERS PLAQUE of ROSS CIVET somewhat eronious. I for one will not be bidding.

regards
Roger


----------



## Roger Griffiths

The link has been timed out but here it is

Hull City Archives: Drypool Engineering and Dry Dock Limited 


The contents of this catalogue are the copyright of Hull City Archives
Rights in the Access to Archives database are the property of the Crown, © 2001-2006

To find out more about the archives described below, contact Hull City Archives

Drypool Engineering and Dry Dock Limited

Catalogue Ref. DBD
Creator(s):
Drypool Engineering and Dry Dock Limited, Hull

[Access Conditions]
Open to consultation, unless otherwise indicated

[from Administrative History] First listing in the local directories is in 1916. Recorded as marine engineers, Drypool Engineering Company Limited had its registered offices at 180 High Street. The works were based at 86, Church Street.(Kelly's Directory of Hull p573) By 1919, both the works and the registered offices were based on Church Street, the former still at 86 with the latter now at 88. Officially it was called Drypool Engineering Company (Hull) Limited, with a telephone number of Central 2604 and a telegraphic address of "enforce, Hull".(Kelly's Directory of Hull 1919 p266). However the 1921 entry lists the office and works as being at 86 Church Street, whilst the 1925 entry uses 88.(Kelly's Directory of Hull 1921 p283 and 1925 p301) The following year saw a new office at 1 High Street.(Kelly's Directory of Hull 1926 p312) In the ensuing years there were no significant changes.

[from Administrative History] In 1963, they employed 300 men, although the Managing Director, Mr R.J. Shepherd, commented on the prospects not being very good.(Hull Daily Mail 3/1/63 p6) There was an expansion into Bridlington in 1965, with the take over of H.J. Shepherd Engineering.(Hull Daily Mail 6/5/1965 p10 1969) saw Drypool taking over Cochrane & Sons of Selby, the shipbuilders.(Hull Daily Mail 2/1/4969 p10) Late that same year, The M.D., Mr Shepherd died with Mr Philip Curtis replacing him.(Hull Daily Mail 25/4/1969 p7 and 9/5/1969 p1) In 1972 Drypool Engineering and Dry Dock Limited was a private company working in the field of ship repairs and shipbuilding with seven bases of operation. In Hull these were as follows: main offices and general repairs at 1, High Street; Humber Street, general repair work; engineering work at Church Street; machinery installation at William Wright Dock; general repair and electrical work at Union Dry Dock and in the town of Selby, ship building at the Ouse Shipyard.(R A Barnes 1972 Unpublished Thesis University of Hull.) The design work and materials purchasing was undertaken at Selby



Roger


----------



## Steve Farrow

Clem said:


> Hi Hilary, welcome back, not seen you around for a couple of days.
> 
> Here's the spec of GY365 Etruria:
> 
> Official Number: 162195
> Port of Registry: Grimsby
> Number: GY365
> Name: Etruria
> Callsign: GRQT
> Type: Steam Trawler
> Built: 08/30
> By: Cook Welton & Gemmell Ltd. Beverley
> Gross Tonnage: 373
> Net Tonnage: 158
> Length: 143.5 ft.
> Beam: 24.7 ft.
> Draught: 13.2 ft.
> (Note: Measurements are in Feet and Tenths of Feet)
> Engines: T 3cy. 96 RHP
> By: C.D. Holmes & Co. Ltd. Hull
> Owner: Great Grimsby & East Coast Steam Fishing Co. Ltd.
> Comments: Built as H287 Lady Elsa for Jutland Amalgamated Trawlers Ltd. Hull; 02/37 to Grimsby registered as GY365; 06/37 renamed Etruria; Hired as Auxiliary Patrol Trawler 05/40; Boom Defence Vessel 11/40-02/46; 1953 to Belgium
> Fate: Scrapped 1953?


Etruria was lengthened in 1939 to 160' and they replaced her straight stem with a raked one and altered her old style stern with a cruiser type. This was said to give her more speed through increasing her water-line length, but to the detriment of her sea keeping qualities, and was regarded as a 'Dirty' ship.
She was attacked and hit by a bomb on 18th December 1939. this exploded in the foc'sle killing three of her crew who were sheltering there. Around 15 bombs were used in this attack, and she was also machine-gunned. Although extensively damaged, she limped back to port.
She had a very colourful history indeed!
Steve


----------



## Clem

*GY623 Regardo*



Steve Farrow said:


> Hi Clem,
> That name brings back memories! Did my first trip...


Nice one Steve, stories like that should be published for all to enjoy.
You're right, I've got her built in 1915 too.


----------



## Steve Farrow

Roger Griffiths said:


> The link has been timed out but here it is
> 
> Hull City Archives: Drypool Engineering and Dry Dock Limited
> 
> 
> The contents of this catalogue are the copyright of Hull City Archives
> Rights in the Access to Archives database are the property of the Crown, © 2001-2006
> 
> To find out more about the archives described below, contact Hull City Archives
> 
> Drypool Engineering and Dry Dock Limited
> 
> Catalogue Ref. DBD
> Creator(s):
> Drypool Engineering and Dry Dock Limited, Hull
> 
> [Access Conditions]
> Open to consultation, unless otherwise indicated
> 
> [from Administrative History] First listing in the local directories is in 1916. Recorded as marine engineers, Drypool Engineering Company Limited had its registered offices at 180 High Street. The works were based at 86, Church Street.(Kelly's Directory of Hull p573) By 1919, both the works and the registered offices were based on Church Street, the former still at 86 with the latter now at 88. Officially it was called Drypool Engineering Company (Hull) Limited, with a telephone number of Central 2604 and a telegraphic address of "enforce, Hull".(Kelly's Directory of Hull 1919 p266). However the 1921 entry lists the office and works as being at 86 Church Street, whilst the 1925 entry uses 88.(Kelly's Directory of Hull 1921 p283 and 1925 p301) The following year saw a new office at 1 High Street.(Kelly's Directory of Hull 1926 p312) In the ensuing years there were no significant changes.
> 
> [from Administrative History] In 1963, they employed 300 men, although the Managing Director, Mr R.J. Shepherd, commented on the prospects not being very good.(Hull Daily Mail 3/1/63 p6) There was an expansion into Bridlington in 1965, with the take over of H.J. Shepherd Engineering.(Hull Daily Mail 6/5/1965 p10 1969) saw Drypool taking over Cochrane & Sons of Selby, the shipbuilders.(Hull Daily Mail 2/1/4969 p10) Late that same year, The M.D., Mr Shepherd died with Mr Philip Curtis replacing him.(Hull Daily Mail 25/4/1969 p7 and 9/5/1969 p1) In 1972 Drypool Engineering and Dry Dock Limited was a private company working in the field of ship repairs and shipbuilding with seven bases of operation. In Hull these were as follows: main offices and general repairs at 1, High Street; Humber Street, general repair work; engineering work at Church Street; machinery installation at William Wright Dock; general repair and electrical work at Union Dry Dock and in the town of Selby, ship building at the Ouse Shipyard.(R A Barnes 1972 Unpublished Thesis University of Hull.) The design work and materials purchasing was undertaken at Selby
> 
> 
> 
> Roger


This take over appears to have occurred five or six years after the Cat class had been built. Does this prove these builders plates are from other later vessels?
Steve


----------



## Kerbtrawler

*John G Watson - ????*

Can anyone help me identify the vessel John G Watson

All that I have is that it Foundered May 30th 1930

I can't find it in any of my records

Thanks


----------



## Steve Farrow

Kerbtrawler said:


> Can anyone help me identify the vessel John G Watson
> 
> All that I have is that it Foundered May 30th 1930
> 
> I can't find it in any of my records
> 
> Thanks


Hi Trevor,
According to Togill's Requisitioned trawlers part 2, he has two ships of that name. The first one built in 1910, converted as a minesweeper and lost through collision near Stornaway on 31st October 1915. The second ship, built in 1916, converted as an escort. 235 gross tons, and armed with one 6pdr AA gun. Admiralty No 3322. Port Reg SN 305. Returned to owners in 1919
Hope this is of some help
Steve


----------



## Kerbtrawler

Thanks Steve,
All that I need to do now is make the link to Grimsby

I totally forgot to check Toghill's


----------



## Steve Farrow

Roger Griffiths said:


> Hello Steve,
> A quick search of A2A reveals the following
> http://www.a2a.org.uk/search/do***e...l&keyword=Drypool Engineering&properties=0601
> 
> You will note that Drypool ( who as far as I know never built a fishing vessel) took over Cochranes in 1969. Since all the CAT class were built by Cochranes between 1957 and 1960. I find the seller on E-Bays claim that it was the ORIGINAL MAKERS PLAQUE of ROSS CIVET somewhat eronious. I for one will not be bidding.
> 
> regards
> Roger


Hi Roger, I just feel sorry that somebody will buy these in good faith, but I don't see how any item such as these can possibly be authenticated, unlike perhaps a ships bell with the name on it, but even these can be faked!
Steve


----------



## Roger Griffiths

Hello Steve,
I have just checked Lloyds register 1962/63 and it confirms Cochranes as the builder of all the CAT class. I just may send the seller an e-mail and see what transpires.

regards
Roger


----------



## fishdockroad

*Ross Panther*

Hi all,

interesting to read comments regarding 'Drypool Eng Company' of Hull. My thoughts are the same as everyone elses in that they definetly werent the original makers. I've included a jpeg of my plate that is different to the one on E bay as mine is dated 1957. I also emailed the seller asking for more details and raised the question regarding where she was built but as of yet no answer. I'll keep you posted.

Fishdockroad


----------



## Steve Farrow

fishdockroad said:


> Hi all,
> 
> interesting to read comments regarding 'Drypool Eng Company' of Hull. My thoughts are the same as everyone elses in that they definetly werent the original makers. I've included a jpeg of my plate that is different to the one on E bay as mine is dated 1957. I also emailed the seller asking for more details and raised the question regarding where she was built but as of yet no answer. I'll keep you posted.
> 
> Fishdockroad


I thought this an interesting paagraph about the Ross Valiant
"Trawler 'Ross Valiant'


A distant water stern trawler built for Ross Trawlers by Drypool Engineering & Dry Dock Co Ltd of Hull. Notes on Paxman records suggest the vessel's hull may have been constructed by Cochrane & Sons Ltd of Selby before fitting out by Drypool.
Engines: Three 8YLCZ, each rated 1,135 bhp at 1,000 rpm. These engines were despatched from Colchester during February and March 1964.
Electrical Machinery: Engines driving tandem generators, 445kW DC generators for propulsion and 200kW AC alternators for the service load. Electrical machinery manufactured by Laurence Scott & Electromotors of Norwich. The propulsion machinery had a one hour rating of 480kW."

Perhaps after the Cat class, some of the trawlers were indeed built at Cochranes and fitted out at Drypool. The Ross Valiant was built in 1964.
It must be do***ented somewhere. Perhaps Arthur Credland at the Hull Maritime Museum could enlighten us!
Steve


----------



## mattarosa

*Aground off the Forum*

All
Please don't think I have deserted you. I have vacated my flat and am camping with a friend - no Internet access (doing this at the office). Until I find an Internet cafe or arrange to stay on at work for a sesh, I won't be able to participate much. 

I have, however, been able to keep up with the great pics Steve is continuing to post, and I will try and catch up with the forum tomorrow or the next day.

In the meantime, keep up the good work. It's all very interesting.

Hilary


----------



## Roger Griffiths

Steve Farrow said:


> I thought this an interesting paagraph about the Ross Valiant
> "Trawler 'Ross Valiant'
> 
> 
> A distant water stern trawler built for Ross Trawlers by Drypool Engineering & Dry Dock Co Ltd of Hull. Notes on Paxman records suggest the vessel's hull may have been constructed by Cochrane & Sons Ltd of Selby before fitting out by Drypool.
> 
> Perhaps after the Cat class, some of the trawlers were indeed built at Cochranes and fitted out at Drypool. The Ross Valiant was built in 1964.
> It must be do***ented somewhere. Perhaps Arthur Credland at the Hull Maritime Museum could enlighten us!
> Steve


Hello Steve, 
I have had a reply (below) from the seller on E-Bay which lends support to your thinking. We all associate engineering of Hull and Grimsby fishing vessels with either Amos and Smith or C D Holmes but of course in the late 50's/early 60's both companies, along with the rest of the industry were in decline. So maybe some of the later "Cats" were fitted out by Drypool Engineering.
regards
Roger


Hi Roger, I've been in contact with the person who I origionally got the plaques from(I did have two), as it's a family member who was in the right place at the right time when they were being decommissioned, and he informs me that this is in fact the engineering makers plaque that was mounted on the bulkhead facing aft overlooking the main and winch engines. I assume this is why it's a makers plaque for Drypool Engineering as opposed to Cochranes. I hope that this clarifies things.


----------



## Steve Farrow

Hi Roger,
I have been trying so hard to think where I've seen these Drypool plates and you may have solved the quandry. If these brass plates were mounted in the engine-room, then I must have seen them many times without taking too much notice. One snag remains though, and here is what I have copied and pastied from the ebay seller's ad.........
"These plaques were mounted externally just underneath the bridge window, as you can see from looking at any archive photos of similar trawlers from that era."
Hmmmm!
Steve
Thumbnail is the Ross Tiger's wheelhouse


----------



## fishdockroad

Steve Farrow said:


> Hi Roger,
> I have been trying so hard to think where I've seen these Drypool plates and you may have solved the quandry. If these brass plates were mounted in the engine-room, then I must have seen them many times without taking too much notice. One snag remains though, and here is what I have copied and pastied from the ebay seller's ad.........
> "These plaques were mounted externally just underneath the bridge window, as you can see from looking at any archive photos of similar trawlers from that era."
> Hmmmm!
> Steve
> Thumbnail is the Ross Tiger's wheelhouse


Hi all below is the reply I got from the seller of the plate on Ebay. Does it make things clearer for anyone?? Maybe??? mine did come off the Ross panther after all?? Just not from the position I first thought.

Hi there, I've been in contact with the person who I origionally got the plaques from(I did have two), as it's a family member who was in the right place at the right time when they were being decommissioned, and he informs me that this is in fact the engineering makers plaque that was mounted on the bulkhead facing aft overlooking the main and winch engines. I assume this is why it's a makers plaque for Drypool Engineering as opposed to Cochranes. This could also be the scenerio with your plaque from the Ross Panther. If you do a google search for Ross Tiger, about the eighth link down is 'Tail of a Tiger'this gives details of all the 'Cat Class' trawlers including launch dates etc, and states that they were all built by Cochranes of Selby

Fishdockroad


----------



## trawlercook

the plaque on the front of a trawlers bridge denotes the yard that built the trawler.
in the engine room was another plaque that denotes the builder of the engines.
so infact there were two plaque,s on every ship,and all the trawlers that were built at beverly in the years after 1950 fitted out in princess dock which now has a great ugly shopping center built in it


----------



## mattarosa

Kerbtrawler said:


> Can anyone help me identify the vessel John G Watson
> 
> All that I have is that it Foundered May 30th 1930
> 
> I can't find it in any of my records
> 
> Thanks


Unfortunately, I don't have any Olsens close to 1930, in fact the only pre-1930 one I have access to is 1916.

In this is John G Watson, official number 129342 Reg A327 built 1910.

Unfortunately, this must be the first John G Watson (which according to Steve met its demise the year before, but it must have been after the compilation date) so does not help you at all.

Sorry I could not do more.

Hilary


----------



## mattarosa

Clem said:


> Hi Hilary, welcome back, not seen you around for a couple of days.
> 
> Here's the spec of GY365 Etruria:
> 
> Thanks for this, Clem.
> 
> Here are my usual extracts from the Times relating to Etruria. She seems to have got arrested a time or two. There is a write up of Etruria's story in Grand Old Ladies (thanks, Steve, for that info).
> 
> The Times, Monday, Dec 12, 1949; pg. 4
> Norwegian Detention Of British Trawlers
> From Our Correspondent
> OSLO, Dec. 11
> The Grimsby trawler Etruria was escorted into Hammerfest yesterday by the fishery protection ship Soeroe. It had been stopped when fishing west of Nordkyn, near where the trawler Neljs was stopped for alleged illegal fishing earlier last week. The commander of the Soeroe said that the Etruria was well inside the waters which Norway held to be territorial waters, but possibly on the right side of the line recognized by the British authorities. The skipper of the Nelis who was filed on December 8 £754 with £750 charges, has appealed to the Supreme Court.
> In September Britain referred the dispute with Norway over fishing areas to the International Court at The Hague, stating that the Norwegian decree of 1935 unlawfully purports to close considerable areas of sea which, under international law, are high seas.
> 
> The Times, Thursday, May 04, 1950; pg. 4
> Russians Arrest Grimsby Trawler
> The Standard Steam Fishing Company, owners of the Grimsby trawler Etruria, yesterday confirmed that the trawler had been boarded by a Russian crew and taken to Murmansk. The Ministry of Agriculture and Fisheries later stated that the trawler was arrested on May 1 by a Russian warship. No official notification has been received. With a crew of about 20, the Etruria left Grimsby on April 19 for the White Sea.
> 
> The Times, Saturday, May 13, 1950; pg. 4
> Grimsby Trawler Released
> Moscow Broadcast
> From Our Correspondent
> Oslo, May 12
> The British trawler Etruria, released by the Russians yesterday, put in the Norwegian port of Honningsvaag tonight to take on bunker coal and ice, and later left accompanied by another British trawler to which it will transfer its load of fish caught in open seas after its departure from Russia. The transfer of fish from one vessel to another is forbidden in harbour. The Etruria is expected to return to Honningsvaag tomorrow to prepare for another trip to the White Sea. The captain refused to give any information about the trawler’s visit to Russia, having been instructed to remain silent.
> Moscow radio reported last night that the Soviet Foreign Ministry , in a Note to the British Embassy on May 9, said the Etruria was fishing within Soviet territorial waters when Russian frontier guards detained it on May 1. The Note said Etruria was then 170 kilometres (about 106 miles) east of Murmansk in the Barents Sea and within a mile and a half of the Russian coast. The skipper, Chapman “recognized the fact of unlawful fishing “ within Russian territorial waters and signed “an appropriate do***ent.”
> The radio said the British Embassy paid the fine imposed on the trawler and the Etruria was immediately released.
> 
> The Times, Thursday, May 25, 1950; pg. 3
> Trawler’s return from Russia
> The Grimsby trawler Etruria, which was detained by the Russians on the Murmansk coast for 10 days, arrived in the Humber last night with 11,000 stones of cod, caught off the Norwegian coast.
> 
> Hilary


----------



## mattarosa

*Heroism or Hokum?*

Another ebay mystery to exercise the little grey cells.

On sale today, a WW2 magazine, dated 1940, including an article entitled:

Grimsby Trawler Downs 2 Nazi Aircraft

I have attached a thumbnail.

Was there really such a ship as the Arctic Trapper? And, if not, is this just wartime censorship concealing the real name of the trawler, or is it hokum?

Hilary


----------



## Kerbtrawler

Yes there was a vesel called the Arctic Trapper GY217

She was eventually sunk off ramsgate
Her oringinal name was Sprayflower sailed out of Hull and was renamed 10/1939

Official Number 160109
built 1928
352GT

Cheers


----------



## mattarosa

Kerbtrawler said:


> Yes there was a vesel called the Arctic Trapper GY217
> 
> She was eventually sunk off ramsgate
> Her oringinal name was Sprayflower sailed out of Hull and was renamed 10/1939
> 
> Official Number 160109
> built 1928
> 352GT
> 
> Cheers


Thanks, that is really interesting to know. I thought it sounded like a made up name!

Hilary


----------



## mattarosa

*Tokio*

Steve
The picture that you posted in the gallery of Tokio is really sad! I bet Tokio was a fine ship once.

Hilary


----------



## Steve Farrow

mattarosa said:


> Steve
> The picture that you posted in the gallery of Tokio is really sad! I bet Tokio was a fine ship once.
> 
> Hilary


Hi Hilary,
Yes, the TOKIO and her sisters, OKINO, HONDO & ERIMO were indeed fine ships of their time. They fished the North Sea mainly, and were good steady earners and easily recognised by their forward raking bridges, which gave a good view of the working area and also apparently cut out a lot of reflections at night!
The TOKIO was sold to the Admiralty who re-named her BULLSEYE as she was used for towing target floats. Then she went into private hands and eventually was abandoned, so she was broken-up.
Steve
Thumbnail is the ERIMO


----------



## Steve Farrow

Sorry....wrong thumbnail! That is the previous ERIMO, here is the last one
Steve


----------



## Clem

*GY661 Tokio*

Hi everyone, here's a photo of the Tokio. An ex. skipper went to see her on Grimsby's North Wall, for one last time. Sadly there wasn't that much left of the ship as they had already began cutting.

Clem


----------



## Steve Farrow

It must be heart breaking to witness your old ship being ripped apart after going through so many experiences together.
Here is another photo of her. Finished with engines.
Steve


----------



## Steve Farrow

*Jon. G. Watson*



Kerbtrawler said:


> Thanks Steve,
> All that I need to do now is make the link to Grimsby
> 
> I totally forgot to check Toghill's


Hi Trevor,
I have just been given some information regarding the John G. Watson.
She was built by Hall Russells of Aberdeen in 1916 and went straight into Admiralty service as a mine-sweeper/escort. Her Admiralty number was 3322 and she had 1 x 6pdr AA gun. 235 tons.
Returned to her owners in 1919, Registered SN 35.Irvin & Son owners. Sunk off Longstone 20. 05.30 So nothing new, apart from the owners.
Regards
Steve


----------



## Kerbtrawler

Thanks for that Steve 

as you know any bit of information can lead who knows where

Cheers


----------



## grahamhussey

hi there i sailed on the ross kelly on my first trip deep water as galley boy i remember settlings of £53 i was rich (lol) the next trip the skipper (george quickfall) was lost and we had to go into iceland for 3-4 days while another skipper flew out to us (dave scott) the year 1972


----------



## Clem

*GY6 Ross Kelly*

Hi Graham, welcome to SN, thanks for your post. Can you tell us a little more about how your skipper was lost? A couple of my relatives were on GY6 Ross Kelly, ten years previous, in 1962. Skipper Barry Jacklin and Bo'sun Clive Jacklin.

I hope you've got lots of stories to share with us all.

Regards

Clem


----------



## mattarosa

Clem said:


> Hi Graham, welcome to SN, thanks for your post. Can you tell us a little more about how your skipper was lost? A couple of my relatives were on GY6 Ross Kelly, ten years previous, in 1962. Skipper Barry Jacklin and Bo'sun Clive Jacklin.
> 
> I hope you've got lots of stories to share with us all.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Clem


Welcome from me, too, and I quite agree with Clem, it has got far too quiet around here. I am temporarily severed from the Internet at home (which is VERY difficult to bear) but I will try and post a couple of pictures in my "Which trawler might this be?" series!!!

Love to hear more about your time aboard Ross Kelly.


----------



## Steve Farrow

Is that the trip when the skipper of the ROSS KELLY allegedly committed suicide by going over the side? I seem to remember this incident, but have no facts.
This thumbnail is when the KELLY was a new steam trawler 
Steve


----------



## Clem

*GY284 Hammond*

Hi Steve, see you're online. Hi Hilary, here's the next installment: 

*GY284 Hammond*

Official Number: 164403 
Port of Registry: Grimsby
Number: GY284 
Name: Hammond
Callsign: GYRW
Type: Steam Trawler
Built: 02 /36
By: Cochrane & Sons Ltd. Selby
Gross Tonnage: 452 
Net Tonnage: 191
Length: 161.8 ft.
Beam: 27.1 ft. 
Draught: 14.2 ft.
(Note: Measurements are in Feet and Tenths of Feet)
Engines: T 3cy 132 NHP
By: Amos & Smith Ltd. Hull
Owner: Perihelion Steam Fishing
Manager: H.G. Crampin
Comments: 08/39 Crampin Steam Fishing; Admiralty Service; Hired as A/S Trawler 08/39; Pennant FY149; Armament 1-4in; Lost; Sunk by aircraft at Aandalsnes Norway 25/04/40; Skipper J. Crockett; Salved 02/42; Commissioned in Kriegsmarine as V6115 Salier; ‘47 renamed Vesturskin (Faeroes); ‘54 renamed Sletnes; owner A/S Heinsa; Manager; Gunnar Wirum; Kristiansund (Norway)
Fate: n/k

By 1959/60 (Lloyds entry) she had a lot of work done to her. Gross 466; Net 184; Length 176 ft. 8 in.


http://www.harry-tates.org.uk/veteranstales34a.htm

http://www.harry-tates.org.uk/veteranstales21a.htm

http://www.harry-tates.org.uk/veteranstales21b.htm

http://blog.360.yahoo.com/jamesesq

http://www.unithistories.com/officers/RNR_officersC.html


----------



## Clem

*GY6 Ross Kelly*



Steve Farrow said:


> Is that the trip when the skipper of the ROSS KELLY allegedly committed suicide by going over the side? I seem to remember this incident, but have no facts.
> This thumbnail is when the KELLY was a new steam trawler
> Steve


Hi Steve, there was another apparent suicide in 62, the 2nd engineer was lost overboard. A box search was made but his body was never recovered.

Clem


----------



## Steve Farrow

Hi Clem, 
I had the photo of the sunken HAMMOND as the BRADMAN.......thanks for putting that right!
Here she is in happier times
Steve


----------



## Clem

To be honest Steve, the picture of the Hammond in the link doesn't, to me, relate well with your pic. What's your opinion?

Clem


----------



## Steve Farrow

It's difficult to say because,when these ships were converted to sweepers or escorts, a lot of structural change took place, ie the boat deck was removed and alterations to the wheelhouse was usual. 
I have her as eventually owned by Faroese and renamed Vesturskin and later as Sletnes under Norwegian owners after the war.
Steve


----------



## Clem

I'm reading now that five of Crampin's 'Cricketers' were lost in WW2, Hammond, Bradman and Larwood on the same day in the Norwegian campagin. Four were later commissioned into the Kriegsmarine.


Clem


----------



## Steve Farrow

Clem
After studying the photo claiming to be the HAMMOND, I stand by it being the BRADMAN. She was the only ship of that class at that time to have a modern bridge., were the HAMMOND had a full veranda. You can clearly make out the wheelhouse door & this is in the same position as the BARNETT's
The Hammond was modified after the war. See what you think ......Any body else with an opinion on this?


----------



## Clem

*HMT Hammond ???*



Steve Farrow said:


> Clem
> After studying the photo claiming to be the HAMMOND, I stand by it being the BRADMAN. She was the only ship of that class at that time to have a modern bridge., were the HAMMOND had a full veranda. You can clearly make out the wheelhouse door & this is in the same position as the BARNETT's
> The Hammond was modified after the war. See what you think ......Any body else with an opinion on this?


Steve.

After comparing the following images, I don't believe HMT ??? is the Hammond. I don't have any pics of Bradman, Larwood, or Jardine (these were all sunk in the Norway campaign), Leyland sank off Gibralter.

HMT ??? certainly looks similar to Barnett, yet Barnett (HMT Blackfly) survived the war, being scrapped in 1960.

Clem


----------



## mattarosa

*Hammond*



Clem said:


> Hi Steve, see you're online. Hi Hilary, here's the next installment:
> 
> Many thanks, Clem.
> 
> Hilary


----------



## mattarosa

Steve Farrow said:


> Clem
> After studying the photo claiming to be the HAMMOND, I stand by it being the BRADMAN. She was the only ship of that class at that time to have a modern bridge., were the HAMMOND had a full veranda. You can clearly make out the wheelhouse door & this is in the same position as the BARNETT's
> The Hammond was modified after the war. See what you think ......Any body else with an opinion on this?



Very interesting discussion, Steve and Clem. I don't really have an opinion, but I wish I could have a good root through my books and see if I had anything relevant. Unfortunately, most are in storage until I move again.

Here is a picture from a Grimsby Official Guide, not sure what year but sometime in the late 50s perhaps? I don't expect you to identify the front trawler from just the bit you can see, though you might identify the one at the back (is it Flying Wing?). I wondered, however, about the Roman numerals on the front one. Are they on the trawler or on the photo? What are they for? 

Hilary


----------



## Steve Farrow

Clem said:


> Steve.
> 
> After comparing the following images, I don't believe HMT ??? is the Hammond. I don't have any pics of Bradman, Larwood, or Jardine (these were all sunk in the Norway campaign), Leyland sank off Gibralter.
> 
> HMT ??? certainly looks similar to Barnett, yet Barnett (HMT Blackfly) survived the war, being scrapped in 1960.
> 
> Clem


So it must be the BRADMAN, all the others like her survived. Here is the BARNETT ( Blackfly ) Note the similarity to the Bradman.....what you can see of her!
Oh, I wonder what Hilary's pick and mix trawler quiz is going to be............Hmm
Steve


----------



## mattarosa

*Hilary's Quiz*



Steve Farrow said:


> So it must be the BRADMAN, all the others like her survived. Here is the BARNETT ( Blackfly ) Note the similarity to the Bradman.....what you can see of her!
> Oh, I wonder what Hilary's pick and mix trawler quiz is going to be............Hmm
> Steve



It's going to be "Guess the invisible trawler" as I can't attach the thumbnail. I am not seeing the place for attaching any more. I'm going to try logging in again and see what happens. 

Hilary


----------



## mattarosa

*Out of steam*



mattarosa said:


> It's going to be "Guess the invisible trawler" as I can't attach the thumbnail. I am not seeing the place for attaching any more. I'm going to try logging in again and see what happens.
> 
> Hilary


Nothing happened. Steve, I have emailed you the pic, perhaps you could post it for me? 

Hilary


----------



## Clem

Steve Farrow said:


> So it must be the BRADMAN, all the others like her survived. Here is the BARNETT ( Blackfly ) Note the similarity to the Bradman.....what you can see of her!
> Steve


Hi Steve, that's a good image of HMT Blackfly, the modified bridge structure looks a lot more substantial than the one of the wrecked HMT ???

Until I see pics of Larwood, Jardine, even possibly Leyland. I'll reserve judgment on the vessels identity. But she certainly doesn't look like Hammond.

Has anyone got pictures of the pre-war 'Cricketers,' even better if they are in wartime guise?

Cheers

Clem


----------



## Steve Farrow

Hi Clem,
Here are the JARDINE,LEYLAND & BRADMAN
Steve


----------



## Steve Farrow

mattarosa said:


> Very interesting discussion, Steve and Clem. I don't really have an opinion, but I wish I could have a good root through my books and see if I had anything relevant. Unfortunately, most are in storage until I move again.
> 
> Here is a picture from a Grimsby Official Guide, not sure what year but sometime in the late 50s perhaps? I don't expect you to identify the front trawler from just the bit you can see, though you might identify the one at the back (is it Flying Wing?). I wondered, however, about the Roman numerals on the front one. Are they on the trawler or on the photo? What are they for?
> 
> Hilary


Hi Hilary,
Because of the problems you are having with 'logging on' here is your thumbnail of the two un-named trawlers.
Steve


----------



## Clem

Steve Farrow said:


> Hi Clem,
> Here are the JARDINE,LEYLAND & BRADMAN
> Steve


Well Steve, if HMT ??? isn't Larwood  , she must be Bradman. Now all we've got to do is find a pic. of Larwood to confirm she has the veranda around the wheel house.

Who fancies telling the publisher of HMT Hammond??? what we've come up with?

Clem


----------



## Steve Farrow

Here she is....or was. I have just been told I have uploaded the max three files!
Steve


----------



## Clem

*GY690 Golden Hope or Flying Wing*



Steve Farrow said:


> Hi Hilary,
> Because of the problems you are having with 'logging on' here is your thumbnail of the two un-named trawlers.
> Steve


Hi Hilary/Steve, The image showing GY690 could be Golden Hope (ON 109536), if not Flying Wing (ON 138939).

Steve, your painting of Flying Wing differs (at the stern) from Hilary's photo. I would start by guessing Hilary's photo is Golden Hope.

Cheers

Clem


----------



## Steve Farrow

Clem said:


> Well Steve, if HMT ??? isn't Larwood  , she must be Bradman. Now all we've got to do is find a pic. of Larwood to confirm she has the veranda around the wheel house.
> 
> Who fancies telling the publisher of HMT Hammond??? what we've come up with?
> 
> Clem


Just posted the LARWOOD in the gallery
Steve


----------



## Steve Farrow

Clem said:


> Hi Hilary/Steve, The image showing GY690 could be Golden Hope (ON 109536), if not Flying Wing (ON 138939).
> 
> Steve, your painting of Flying Wing differs (at the stern) from Hilary's photo. I would start by guessing Hilary's photo is Golden Hope.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Clem


Clem,
The GOLDEN HOPE was sold to Holland in 1905 and the other ship has a cruiser stern........much later, so I think it must be the 'WING'. Don't go by the painting.............I may have had a night out!
Steve


----------



## Clem

Steve Farrow said:


> Clem,
> The GOLDEN HOPE was sold to Holland in 1905 and the other ship has a cruiser stern........much later, so I think it must be the 'WING'. Don't go by the painting.............I may have had a night out!
> Steve


 Oh well, that tangent never got off on a 'Wing' and a Prayer.

Going back to Larwood, she can be ruled out of the equation, Bradman it is.

Cheers

Clem


----------



## mattarosa

Steve Farrow said:


> Hi Hilary,
> Because of the problems you are having with 'logging on' here is your thumbnail of the two un-named trawlers.
> Steve



Hi Steve
Thanks for posting my "tangent" as Clem called it!! His wing and a prayer comment made me laugh.

I seriously didn't expect you to identify that bit of a trawler in front, but was interested in the Roman numerals. You called them draught marks in your email. Does that mean they are permanent and that every trawler would have them? I have seen a few pics of trawlers out of the water but have not noticed them before.

Hilary

PS - I still don't get "manage attachments" or whatever I had before. Do you think I've been banned from posting attachments?


----------



## mattarosa

*Posting attachments*

I got it!!! Yesterday and this morning, when I clicked on the paperclip, I got "Error on page". I just tried it again and it worked. 

I am going to post a thumbnail just to prove it. Here's a couple more to have a crack at, impossible or not.

Hilary


----------



## mattarosa

*P.s.*



mattarosa said:


> I got it!!! Yesterday and this morning, when I clicked on the paperclip, I got "Error on page". I just tried it again and it worked.
> 
> I am going to post a thumbnail just to prove it. Here's a couple more to have a crack at, impossible or not.
> 
> Hilary


Sorry the quality of the pics is so poor.


----------



## Steve Farrow

You got there in the end.
Draught marks are a feature on all ships, and indicate the depth at which the vessel sits in the water. they are painted on both sides of the ship, fore and aft. The known draught is important for various reasons, one of them being the necessity of knowing how much water lies beneath the ship when navigating in shallows. If you know the depth from the soundings then the draught is deducted and this give the depth beneath the ship..........it really is whole science on its own especially when dealing with the Plimsoll line, but I am not going there!
Your thumbnail on the left is the BOMBARDIER. My first wife's grandfather was skipper of her for a number of years from new, Sid Brennan, and by all accounts he was quite a character, often taking several cats to sea with him!
Steve


----------



## Steve Farrow

mattarosa said:


> I got it!!! Yesterday and this morning, when I clicked on the paperclip, I got "Error on page". I just tried it again and it worked.
> 
> I am going to post a thumbnail just to prove it. Here's a couple more to have a crack at, impossible or not.
> 
> Hilary


The second vessel also appears to be the BOMBARDIER but maybe a slight chance that it caould be the LANCER or Lifeguard
Steve


----------



## grahamhussey

Steve Farrow said:


> Is that the trip when the skipper of the ROSS KELLY allegedly committed suicide by going over the side? I seem to remember this incident, but have no facts.
> This thumbnail is when the KELLY was a new steam trawler
> Steve


hi all further to my first trip on the ross kelly i recall that the cook sent me to the bridge to see if the old man wanted any breakfast but found noone around when i reported this to the cook all hell broke loose with the ship being seached over and over when we finally got back to grimsby i was summoned to the board of trade offices and had to give a statement (a bit intimadating for a 15 year old ) i cant remember the verdict but another strange turn of fate was the mate on the kelly (jeff peters) was lost in similar cir***stances off a grimsby seiner a few years later again i cant remember the vessel or the year maybe one of you can thanks gray


----------



## Steve Farrow

This also happened on the small trawler SUNNINGDALE which was returning from Grimsby after being bought on the continent. One of the crew went on the bridge and the bridge door was open and the skipper George 'Stumpy' Reynolds was missing. It is a fact that when a lot of drowned fishermen and yachtsmen's bodies are recovered, their 'flies' are undone. When the weather is scuffly they say "one hand for yourself and one for the ship" Eastily done I should imagine!
Steve


----------



## peppie

sunningdale GY-1388 was a small dutch beamtrawler,does anyone out here knows what happened to her? also information wanted on birkdale GY-1401


----------



## mattarosa

Steve Farrow said:


> You got there in the end.
> Draught marks are a feature on all ships, and indicate the depth at which the vessel sits in the water. they are painted on both sides of the ship, fore and aft. The known draught is important for various reasons, one of them being the necessity of knowing how much water lies beneath the ship when navigating in shallows. If you know the depth from the soundings then the draught is deducted and this give the depth beneath the ship..........it really is whole science on its own especially when dealing with the Plimsoll line, but I am not going there!
> Your thumbnail on the left is the BOMBARDIER. My first wife's grandfather was skipper of her for a number of years from new, Sid Brennan, and by all accounts he was quite a character, often taking several cats to sea with him!
> Steve



Thanks, Steve, that is really interesting. I have never noticed these marks before.

Hilary


----------



## mattarosa

Steve Farrow said:


> The second vessel also appears to be the BOMBARDIER but maybe a slight chance that it caould be the LANCER or Lifeguard
> Steve


Thank you! Your picture is a lot better than mine.


----------



## Steve Farrow

My turn now! This appeared in the Grimsby Telegraph today. Can anyone identify the vessel? GY 349 is not in Olsen's 1950, 57, 61 or 67 almanacs.
The coal-fired fish dock tug dates it pre-1964 At first glance, she looks like a seine netter, but she has a funnel and a hooded hatchway on the foredeck on the port side.
Steve


----------



## treeve

Interesting - that's one of the Reg Nrs missing from my GY list. In the confusion of this year, I have ommitted the link to the page. I must
correct that ....


----------



## Kerbtrawler

The only GY 349 goes back to 1930 vessel called Bloom but this vessel doen't look to be that old....

So the Gaunlet is thrown down to see who can id this one....LOL


----------



## Kerbtrawler

Of course it could be the Tanana GY 349
belonged to the Clay deep fishing Co in 1953
The only problem I see is the weight = 14.18 t

But its all I have

cheers


----------



## Steve Farrow

The tonnage for that TANANA does seen a bit on the low side I agree. Is that net tons though? If so it is only relating to cubic space, ie One ton is 100 cubic feet of space.
So it's quite possible this could be the TANANA of 1953.....
Any more ideas on this one?
The second TANANA was built in 1960,GY.647
Steve


----------



## wully farquhar

Hi Steve,I have a photograph of the Tanana GY 349 lying hard aground on a island in the Westray Firth Orkney,the crew being saved by the Stronsay lifeboat,this happened in 1958.I cannot post the pic.because it is in a book that i have,you know the score with copy-rights.It is definatly the same boat as the funnel at the back of the superstructure stands out clear in the pic.
Wully.


----------



## Steve Farrow

Thanks for that Wully. She doen't appear in the 1957 Olsen's but maybe she was new in 1958.
Steve


----------



## Steve Farrow

Thanks Wully
That has put that one to rest! Definately TANANA
Steve


----------



## Kerbtrawler

Just one point 

Is the Tanana classed as a trawler or Snibby

The reason for asking is that she was definately a Snibby and thats the reason she was so elusive in the books.

Not that it matters as it was still a fine vessel

I will have the tech spec later in the week on her if anyone is interested.

Cheers


----------



## Steve Farrow

Tanana was a seiner or 'Snibby' but these are all in Olsen's Almanacs
Steve


----------



## Steve Farrow

mattarosa said:


> Hi Steve
> Thanks for posting my "tangent" as Clem called it!! His wing and a prayer comment made me laugh.
> 
> I seriously didn't expect you to identify that bit of a trawler in front, but was interested in the Roman numerals. You called them draught marks in your email. Does that mean they are permanent and that every trawler would have them? I have seen a few pics of trawlers out of the water but have not noticed them before.
> 
> Hilary
> 
> PS - I still don't get "manage attachments" or whatever I had before. Do you think I've been banned from posting attachments?


Here'a a problem photo that I have been trying to identify for too long now,
GY 3547 and I was originally given this before the days of photoshop, so I don't think it's been doctored. It said PEKEN, but there is no name visible!. 
Could it have asumed another identity for an early film perhaps?
Steve


----------



## Clem

*GY354 Peken*

That's a strange one Steve, I've seen a few photos that look to have been touched up. I wonder if, when processed, the name and number were 'enhanced' for easier identification? If this was GY354 (the funnel markings appear to be 'Diamonds'), could the 7 have been added by mistake, or deliberately to confuse, ie. in wartime?

Clem


----------



## treeve

Only one on my list ...
GY354
PEKEN
Trawler 228 tons, built 1907. 1 x 6pdr gun. 
Hired 1914-1919 and as a minesweeper 07/1940-08/1945.
ON 127823
228grt 119nrt 120.0 x 22.0 x 11.4ft 66nhp
Built 1907 Cochrane & Sons Ltd, Selby 
Yard Nr 401
Owner Henry L Taylor, Grimsby


----------



## Kerbtrawler

My grandfather was the chief skipper of the Peken
she was given the Pennant 24 in the WW1 conflict

I have an old photo of the vessel 

during the WW2 she carried the Pennant FY 1821

She was built for Diamonds Steam Fishing Co

she had the following markings
Funnel three white diamonds on broad red band between two blue bands seperating yellow from black top. Hull black red boot topping

She was actually renamed in 1919 as Pekin
Call sign was MCSY

Cheers


----------



## Clem

*GY354 Peken*

Here's a very poor image of GY354 Peken to compare with Steve's photo.

Clem


----------



## Kerbtrawler

Its the same photo I have as well Clem


----------



## Kerbtrawler

Hi Treeve 

The engines where 
Triple Cyl 12", 21" & 34" x 24"
Engine by Holmes of Hull

eventually Scrapped 09/1958


----------



## Clem

*GY354 Peken*

Hi Trevor, the picture came from the old Welhome archives (now closed), a photocopyed thumbnail.

Ref: the spelling of Pek*i*n; Lloyds 37/38 still have her as Pek*e*n.

Cheers

Clem


Official Number: 127823 
Port of Registry: Grimsby
Number: GY354
Name: Peken
Callsign: MCSY 
Type: Steam Trawler	
Built: 01/08
By: Cochrane & Sons Ltd. Selby
Gross Tonnage: 228
Net Tonnage: 119
Length: 120 ft.
Beam: 22 ft.
Draught: 11.4 ft.
(Note: Measurements are in Feet and Tenths of Feet)
Engines: T 3cy. 66RHP
By: C.D. Holmes & Co. Hull
Owner: Diamonds Steam Fishing Co. Ltd.
Manager: H.G. Hopwood
Comments: 01/08 H.L. Taylor; 10/22 Diamond Steam Fishing Co. Ltd.
Admiralty Service: Tr 228/07; 1-6pdr. Hired as M/S 1914-19 (spelt Pekin in most WWI lists); 07/40-08/45 as FY1821 
Fate: Scrapped 09/58


Clem


----------



## Kerbtrawler

Sorry to hear about the closure of the welhome galleries

What happened to all the archives they had?


----------



## Clem

Grimsby Library now holds, at least, the photographic collection from Welhome Galleries.

Clem


----------



## Clem

*GY354 Peken*

Attatched is a copy of my relatives Port Record Book showing GY354 Peken.

Clem


----------



## Kerbtrawler

Isn't that where they used to be kept?

From what I remember it was the library and the telegraph that held between them all of the photo's, then when the Museum opened it took them and then they went to the welhome galleries.

Hmmm. what goes around comes around


----------



## Steve Farrow

Clem said:


> Grimsby Library now holds, at least, the photographic collection from Welhome Galleries.
> 
> Clem


 The photographic collection has been returned to the library in Grimsby, but the files and news cuttings of everything that ever happened to these fishing vessels have gone over to Hull! This does not surprise me. The Grimsby fishery section in our library was acknowledged as being amongst the most comprehensive in the world. It was not greatly advertised but students of the industry used it fully until the National Fishing Heritage Centre opened here and the man in charge demanded that all should be his. So it was, and lots of material was archived there with viewing by appointment only, and the bulk of it went to the Welholme Galleries was which relatively cold and damp and totally the wrong environment, both for the photographic collection and the public. Perhaps it should have been left where it had been for so many years and enjoyed in it's entirety. 
Steve


----------



## Kerbtrawler

You get my vote on that Steve,

No disrespect HULL - But why on earth would we send our history over there!!!!


----------



## Steve Farrow

Clem said:


> Hi Trevor, the picture came from the old Welhome archives (now closed), a photocopyed thumbnail.
> 
> Ref: the spelling of Pek*i*n; Lloyds 37/38 still have her as Pek*e*n.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Clem
> 
> 
> Official Number: 127823
> Port of Registry: Grimsby
> Number: GY354
> Name: Peken
> Callsign: MCSY
> Type: Steam Trawler
> Built: 01/08
> By: Cochrane & Sons Ltd. Selby
> Gross Tonnage: 228
> Net Tonnage: 119
> Length: 120 ft.
> Beam: 22 ft.
> Draught: 11.4 ft.
> (Note: Measurements are in Feet and Tenths of Feet)
> Engines: T 3cy. 66RHP
> By: C.D. Holmes & Co. Hull
> Owner: Diamonds Steam Fishing Co. Ltd.
> Manager: H.G. Hopwood
> Comments: 01/08 H.L. Taylor; 10/22 Diamond Steam Fishing Co. Ltd.
> Admiralty Service: Tr 228/07; 1-6pdr. Hired as M/S 1914-19 (spelt Pekin in most WWI lists); 07/40-08/45 as FY1821
> Fate: Scrapped 09/58
> 
> 
> Clem


Just found this of the PEKEN Clem!
Steve


----------



## Kerbtrawler

Thats a fine photograph Steve.


----------



## Kerbtrawler

Steve, 
would it be possible to get a copy of the photo to put with my grandads file I'm compiling, it would probably end up on the part of my website covering his life at sea.
send me a PM Thanks


----------



## Clem

*GY354 Peken*



Steve Farrow said:


> Just found this of the PEKEN Clem!
> Steve


Great stuff Steve, my uncle will be pleased to see her again.


----------



## Steve Farrow

Kerbtrawler said:


> Steve,
> would it be possible to get a copy of the photo to put with my grandads file I'm compiling, it would probably end up on the part of my website covering his life at sea.
> send me a PM Thanks


If you send me an email I will gladly forward the photo
Steve


----------



## treeve

Clem thought this list may be of use, so I have, at last, placed it on line.
http://freepages.family.rootsweb.com/~treevecwll/grimsbyreg.htm
( Part of Hearts of Oak )
It merely lists the Registrations and the vessels names. 
If anyone has any additions or corrections, I would be pleased
to revise the list. I am currently transcribing the PZ registration
vessels from 1865-1963. If you have any specific requests, I 
will keep an eye open and get back as soon as I can.
Best Wishes, Raymond


----------



## Clem

Thanks Raymond, this list will be a great point of reference. I've already put the link into 'my favourites.'

Best wishes

Clem


----------



## Kerbtrawler

Raymond,
interesting lists of the vessels

Think you should have done it sooner...LOL

well done


----------



## Clem

*GY92 Sindonis*

Hi Hilary, here's the next one on your list.

Cheers

Clem

Official Number: 163953 
Port of Registry: Grimsby
Number: GY92
Name: Sindonis
Callsign: GYBR
Type: Steam Trawler
Built: 11/34
By: Smiths Dock Co. Ltd. South Bank; Middlesbrough 
Gross Tonnage: 440
Net Tonnage: 164
Length: 162.1 ft.
Beam: 26.7 ft.
Draught: 12.9 ft.
(Note: Measurements are in Feet and Tenths of Feet)
Engines: T 3cy. 99RHP
By: Smiths Dock Co. Ltd. South Bank; Middlesbrough
Owner: Loyal Steam Fishing Co. 
Comments: Ex. Sudanese (Hellyer Bros. Ltd. Hull); 02/39 to Grimsby as GY92; 05/39 renamed Sindonis till 03/40
Fate: 29/05/41 Sunk by aircraft at Tobruk

Admiralty Service: (ex. Soudanese?) Purchased as A/S Trawler 08/39; Pennant FY120; Armament 1-4in; 29/30 Sep. 40 involved in the sinking of Italian submarine Gondar helped rescue all but 2 of submarines crew

http://www.navy.gov.au/spc/history/ships/stuart1.html


Skipper J. Crockett 04/40 (ex. HMT Hammond FY149)

http://www.unithistories.com/officers/RNR_officersC.html


----------



## mattarosa

*Sunningdale/Sudanese/GY.3547*



Clem said:


> Hi Hilary, here's the next one on your list.
> 
> 
> Many thanks, Clem.
> 
> As you and the other regulars might have gathered, I am struggling to keep up here while having no Internet access at home. There are other threads I would love to contribute to as well, but I'm just sticking to this one as best I can.
> 
> I have found a way in which I might be able to keep up and contribute a little. I can make a temporary copy of the last page in the thread on my stick, take it home, look in my files and see if I have anything useful, then bring notes back to post the next morning. That's the theory anyway.
> 
> So here is my very small contribution to the recent discussions - some of it quite a while ago, but I'll try to improve the turnaround!
> 
> The Times, Monday, Apr 10, 1967; pg. 3
> INQUIRY INTO TRAWLER SKIPPER’S DEATH
> A Board of Trade inquiry will be held tomorrow into how a Grimsby trawler skipper, Mr George Reynolds, aged 50, died while he was helping to deliver a “mini-trawler” for Stenton Trawlers Ltd, of which he had just been made a director. Mr Reynolds went overboard from the trawler Sunningdale as she sailed for home across the North Sea.
> 
> 
> The Times, Thursday, Mar 23, 1939; pg. 16
> TRAWLER AND STEAMER IN COLLISION
> The Hull trawler Sudanese and the steamer Grangemouth (1,419 tons) came into collision during a hail storm 17 miles north of the River Humber yesterday. According to messages from the Sudanese, she had taken off the passengers and crew of the Grangemouth, which was badly holed and was asking for tugs. In response the Grimsby tug Lynx and the Humber lifeboat set out.
> 
> GY.3547
> I came across this in Cox’s Steam Trawlers and Liners of Grimsby.
> 
> “Readers may have seen a photograph of GY.3547, and led to believe it was a Grimsby vessel. Even when used as an illustration, is titled incorrectly, omitting the full stop which is clearly visible in the photograph, probably because the name was not known. Even a casual glance will show there is no name on the bows, no port letters and numbers on the quarter or funnel, as required by the regulations before a vessel can be registered. It was never a Grimsby vessel, being in fact the Admiralty Mersey class vessel Edward Williams, which became the Cape Trafalgar, of Hull. The GY was the port of delivery of the vessel, and the number the Admiralty number of the Edward Williams. The photo was probably taken about 1922, before its journey to Hull.”
> 
> Now all you experts can start poring over your pictures of the Cape Trafalgar to see whether you think Cox was right.
> 
> Hilary


----------



## Steve Farrow

Brilliant detective work Hilary. I have the book by Cox as you know, but totally failed to spot that! Do you have the details of the loss of the pair trawler MARGARETHE BOJEN in 1979. A friend of mine lost his bother, Terry Spencer, on her when she capsized in the North Sea. The skipper was John 'Lemon' Richardson All the crew were lost.
Steve


----------



## mattarosa

Steve Farrow said:


> Brilliant detective work Hilary. I have the book by Cox as you know, but totally failed to spot that!
> 
> It was in the small print!


----------



## mattarosa

Steve Farrow said:


> Brilliant detective work Hilary. I have the book by Cox as you know, but totally failed to spot that! Do you have the details of the loss of the pair trawler MARGARETHE BOJEN in 1979. A friend of mine lost his bother, Terry Spencer, on her when she capsized in the North Sea. The skipper was John 'Lemon' Richardson All the crew were lost.
> Steve



I will have a look, Steve. I by no means have everything the Times may have printed about trawlers and the fishing industry and what I have is fairly random, but every now and then something relevant pops up.


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## birgir

Hello.

I have been following the discussions here without having anything to contribute, because I have little access to useful data. BUT I can definetely state that the picture of GY.3547 is not of a mersey class trawler, like Cape Trafalgar. The hull shape is wrong, and the wheelhouse too.

Birgir Thorisson, Iceland.


----------



## Clem

Hi folks.
I've just looked at some pics of a Mersey class trawler and, I agree with Birgir, the images don't seem to compare with Steve's GY3547. I have seen a photograph of a 'Strath' Class trawler, and it seems more like GY3547.

I'll put the image of HMS Richard Bennett into this post as soon as I've scanned it.

I have to say, having cross referenced info. from Cox's publications many times in the past, I've yet to find an error in his works.

Cheers

Clem

Edit: I'm having second thoughts now I've looked at Richard Bennett again.


----------



## Steve Farrow

Hi Birgir,
Well spotted!
After finding a photo of the Cape Trafalgar, built in 1917, the picture of GY3547 is definately not that ship. In fact the Mersey class had whalebacks.
So Charles Cox had the wrong information, but he is no longer with us to defend himself. 
Here is a thumbnail of Mersey Class, Cape Trafalgar which would have been taken in 1923 when Hudson Brothers bought her.
So it is back to the drawing board!
Steve


----------



## mattarosa

Steve Farrow said:


> Do you have the details of the loss of the pair trawler MARGARETHE BOJEN in 1979.
> 
> Sorry Steve, I don't have anything on this. Wish I could have helped.
> Hilary


----------



## mattarosa

Steve Farrow said:


> Hi Birgir,
> 
> So it is back to the drawing board!
> Steve


Oh dear, well at least I gave you all something to do!

Cox must have got this info from somewhere, I wonder what the source was?


----------



## mattarosa

*Gy.3547*



birgir said:


> Hello.
> 
> I have been following the discussions here without having anything to contribute, because I have little access to useful data. BUT I can definetely state that the picture of GY.3547 is not of a mersey class trawler, like Cape Trafalgar. The hull shape is wrong, and the wheelhouse too.
> 
> Birgir Thorisson, Iceland.


Hello Birgir

Do you have any theories about what GY.3547 may be?

Hilary


----------



## Steve Farrow

My theory is that the trawler in question is in fact the PEKEN. She was built in 1908 for H.L. Taylor and remained with that firm all her life, being scrapped in September 1958. Her port registration was GY 354. The build of the ship in the photo fits well with "The cut of her jib". Apart from the obvious missing name Funnel reg numbers and different funnel colours. Why was an extra number added? Which leads me to think she was either used in an early film, or was on passage incognito., ie decoy ship.
Any ideas anybody?
Steve


----------



## Kerbtrawler

I am intrigued for obvious reasons about this vessel 

I have checked Q Ships by Carson Ritchie and there's no mention of the Peken
But thats not proof either way about the extra number

Cheers


----------



## Kerbtrawler

Is there anyway of dating the Photo?

I have spoken to my father and He has no recollection of the trawler being anything other than a minesweeper

Looking forward to further news on this


----------



## birgir

mattarosa said:


> Hello Birgir
> 
> Do you have any theories about what GY.3547 may be?
> 
> Hilary


Hello Hilary and others.

I have no basis do theorize from, but the most probable cause is an error in Cox´s data. The error could be on both ends, a wrong number attributed on paper to the later Cape Trafalgar, or those who painted these numbers on the ships may have mixed up the numbers on the ships. In either case we would need to know which ships received their numbers at the same time, (either in paint, or on paper) and if there are many possible candidates, only pictorial evidence of a mersey class ship with a strath-class number painted on it would identify the ship. A large task to attempt, unless you have good data on these numbers, and their usage. (Could the Peken have got her number modified by the Navy in such simple manner as just adding one letter?)

This is just speculation.

Birgir


----------



## Kerbtrawler

Hi birgir,
after opening all of the various photo's posted, using Adobe photoshop to manipulate the photo's it is quite obvious that your statements are correct the vessel shown as GY 3547 is definately not the Peken.

As you say the bridge is all wrong as well as the other features

Having had time to also look at the drawings of the various vessels it clearly shows the difference in the bow stern and wheelhouse, the Strath class has a taller wheelhouse than that of the Mersey class and the bow arrangement is totally different.
Its not unlike the drawings showing an 86' wood drifter type vessel

Still doesn't help ID the vessel but I for one am no convinced its not the Peken


----------



## Steve Farrow

The PEKEN I was referring to was not Strath, Mersey, or Castle class as she was built in 1908. If you compare the photo GY 3547 with the PEKEN photo, the only obvious structural differences are on the hurricane deck in the latter photo which has the white plates removed, and the stern has had a small deckhouse built for a toilet and locker. After serving through two world wars many changes took place on these trawlers. In fact a lot of the ' bridge aft side' ships had their wheelhouses uprooted from aft and built forward of the funnel. Very confusing when researching these ships!
Steve


----------



## Steve Farrow

I am trying to obtain any relevant information regarding the loss of the Grimsby seine net vessel, the FOURISLES, which was lost with all hands in October 1961.
The first reports were in the Grimsby Evening Telegraph on 20th Oct, with the headlines..."The search is on for missing seiner." Then further reports stated that wreckage had been washed ashore on the Dutch coast.
Any help with this will be much appreciated. Maybe a photo will come to light!
Steve


----------



## Jan H

LO-339-Richard Bennett-built at Aberdeen, Hail Russel in 1917.
GY-354-Peken is built at Cochrane, Selby in 1908.
Jan.


----------



## Jan H

Sorry, it is -LO-439 !!! Richard Bennet.
Jan.


----------



## Steve Farrow

mattarosa said:


> Over the weekend, I was telling my mum about all the things we have been talking about here, especially Steve's memories of what Grimsby used to be like. I also inflicted on her several hours of 'Distant Grounds'.
> 
> This all led to her reminiscing about her childhood and teenage years in Grimsby before the war (mum is 84). She told me one very nice story about a chap who got her a pass onto the docks one day and told her to meet him there with a basket, which he filled with fish. I sensed this might have been a budding romance, but obviously the fish didn't get him anywhere at all, as my mum married my dad, who was a Grenadier Guard and had nothing to do with Grimsby, the sea or fish.
> 
> A vivid memory for mum was a day when she was walking home from work. The family were living in Cleethorpes at the time (they flitted every five minutes and lived all over Grimsby, Cleethorpes and Little Coates) and she says she was walking along the "main road". She looked out to sea (if it is the sea, my geography is none too bright) and saw a "minesweeper" standing on its end (sorry I don't know which end) with half of it sticking out the water, having been hit by a mine. I asked her if it was a trawler and she was not sure.
> 
> Mum says this must have been no later than April 1940, because she then joined the army and wasn't in Cleethorpes any more. She thinks it was early 1940 and not 1939 but she is not sure.
> 
> Anyone got any ideas what this ship (minesweeper? trawler?) might have been? I have looked in British Naval Vessels Lost at Sea and the only possibility I can see in the Humber was the trawler Benvolio mined off Humber 23 February 1940. I think that was a Fleetwood trawler. In another part of the list, though, it said off Spurn Head. As I said, my geography is not too bright, and I don't know if you would be able to see that from Cleethorpes.
> 
> Can anyone throw any light on mum's mystery minesweeper?
> 
> Hilary


Hi Hilary,
This has just been given to and may be the minesweeper your mum saw, standing on it's end.
The HMT SEA KING hit a mine near the Lower Burcom buoy ( Off Fuller St bridge ) on the 9th October 1940 and blew up. She could be seen clearly from Cleethorpes. The dates don't quite tally but not many were lost in that area.
Steve


----------



## mattarosa

Steve Farrow said:


> Hi Hilary,
> This has just been given to and may be the minesweeper your mum saw, standing on it's end.
> The HMT SEA KING hit a mine near the Lower Burcom buoy ( Off Fuller St bridge ) on the 9th October 1940 and blew up. She could be seen clearly from Cleethorpes. The dates don't quite tally but not many were lost in that area.
> Steve


Hi Steve
I am about to hit the road to go to mum's so I will ask her. She said she went in the army in April 1940 and was not in Grimsby any more, but she could have got the date wrong or not been walking home from work (as she said) but on leave.

I did mention the Benvolio to her and mentioned Spurnhead and she said it was definitely in that direction. I have no idea whether the Lower Burcom buoy is also in that direction.

Thank you for the information, I will report back next week. Have a good weekend.

Hilary


----------



## birgir

HI.
This place has gone rather quiet, so i am going to throw in a query. Below is what i found on the Consols web.

GY 84 NEBRIS.
BUILT: 1912.
BUILDERS: Cochrane & Son, Selby.
GROSS TONNAGE: 303.
NETT TONNAGE: 121.
LENGTH: 135ft.
BREADTH: 23.5ft.
DEPTH: 12.6ft.
OFFICIAL NUMBER: 146981.
HISTORY: Built for Icelandic owners as Ingolfur Arnason.
October 1924.
Bought by Consolidated Steam Fishing & Ice Co.
September 1927.
Registered to Consolidated Fisheries.
FATE: Scrapped in May 1937.

To this I can add that the Ingolfur Arnarson was sold to the French navy in 1917, which sold off its trawlers to french companies at the end of WW1. How did it end up in Grimsby, and does anybody have a pic of the ship in this later live. 

Birgir Thorisson, Iceland.


----------



## Steve Farrow

Hi Birgir,
I have a grainy photo of the NEBRIS GY 84, but do not know her history other than what you have kindly provided.
Regards
Steve


----------



## birgir

Hi Steve.

Thank you for the photo. There exist in Iceland many photos of the ship as new. It had then (like some other ships at the time) two lifeboats, sitting in a cradle just behind the funnel. I wonder what was the inconvenience that caused the boats to be moved back, either one boat behind the galley, or two boats on a boatdeck erected above the galley, behind the rear mast.
I noticed from pictures in the C.W & G book that many trawlers built just before WW1 had such boatdecks, but they seem to have been removed later. Do you know when and why.
And finally, (and connected to the Nebris). The trawlers Ceresio and Kings Grey were sold to Hull in 1922. They seem to have passed through the hands of a company named Rushworth. Was that a major trawler operator that went under after WW2? (I noticed that at least some of the older trawlers bought by Consols 1923-24 seem to have passed through that company.)

Birgir


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## Roger Griffiths

Just a little more on NEBRIS from my own notes and information kindly supplied by Maurice Voss.
Her O/N was 146891 not 146981 According to the returns of Grimsby Fishing vessels 1933-1938 she entered the GY register 22/10/1924. So a little question mark
316 grt blt 1912 Cochrane & Sons, Selby (540) C 10.1912 
12-17 INGOLFUR ARNARSON P.J. Thorsteinsson, Reykjavik Ic/ 
17-19 SINGE French Navy patrol vessel 
19-24 SINGE René Petit, Dieppe Fr/ 
24-25 NEBRIS SA Pêcheries Ostendaises, Ostend Be/ 
25-28 NEBRIS Consolidated Steam Fishing & Ice C° Ltd (Sir John D. Marsden, Bart.), Grimsby Br/ 
28-37 NEBRIS Consolidated Fisheries Ltd, Grimsby Br/ 
1937 BU Rosyth by Metal Industries Ltd, work began 26.5.1937 

Birgir,
If you have a decent photograph as INGOLFUR ARNARSON I would be pleased to receive it.

thanks and regards
Roger


----------



## birgir

Hi Roger.
Thanks for the information. One correction. The original owner should be listed as Fiskiveidafelagið Haukur (literal translation The Hawk Fishing company), P.J. Thorsteinsson manager.
Now for pictures. I have a copy in my computer, but it is copyrighted by the Reykjavík Photographs Museum, so I don´t know if I am allowed to share it. (It is however not a good copy, but the museum holds the origininal films). Secondly, I have not yet fathomed how one posts a picture on this website.

Birgir Thorisson.


----------



## Roger Griffiths

Hello Birgir,
Thank you for the correction. No worries concerning the photograph, some one has kindly sent one via e-mail.

Roger


----------



## birgir

Hi. Roger.

Good thing that you have a copy. I contacted the museum (their homepage is www.ljosmyndasafnreykjavikur.is ). The bad new is that they charge about 20 pounds per picture. However the copyright expires in 2008. You can see the picture I have in mind on their website. http://ljosmynd.rvk.is/fotoweb/Prev...441EAAD8BAAD9CFA550438BF7E1B402440B86C9B3E56E

I dont know if this endless string will work, but it was pretty hard to find the pic, their search engine is very in-efficient.

Birgir


----------



## Roger Griffiths

Many thanks Birgir,
I got there in the end. The trick is to click on the main page

http://www.ljosmyndasafnreykjavikur.is/ 

and then on the link

http://ljosmynd.rvk.is/fotoweb/Prev...441EAAD8BAAD9CFA550438BF7E1B402440B86C9B3E56E

regards
Roger


----------



## birgir

Ceresion and Kings Grey.

Does anyone have an old picture of them, (They are of interest to me because the were operated out of Hafnarfjordur by Hellyers of Hull for 6 years, (1924-29) but I have found no pictures of them locally.

Birgir


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## birgir

*Unknown Grimsby trawler.*

Hi everyone.

Anybody have an idea which ship this is?

Birgir


----------



## Steve Farrow

Birgir,
It has what looks to be a 'C' in the funnel, which could narrow her down to one of Crampin's fleet. her number appears to read GY 12?? If the last two numbers could be seen, the answer would be easy! The OPHIR 111 was GY 1220, could this be her?
Steve


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## birgir

Steve

I have no idea. This picture is downloaded from the net sometime this century. What is of interest is the (presumabley) unusual use of sail. It was reported that British trawlers could be recognised around Iceland, (at least early in the 20th century by the use of mezan (aft) sail, but this ship has two sails forward, and this is the only steam trawler pic which I have seen of that. So when would the ophir III have been around?
Birgir.


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## Steve Farrow

The OPHIR 111 was originally the OPHIR from Hull, built in 1903, so she may well have carried sail like this, although it wasn't common practice for long. These early steam trawler skippers were brought up in sailing smacks and old habits die hard! The steam engines were not particularly powerful so when the wind blew fresh from the right direction and speed was important, the sails were used to assist. Plus they had the added benifit of dampening the rolling motion!
It was the carriers that mainly carried sails
Steve


----------



## birgir

I have seen the thumbnail on the left in a book with the caption "a trawler of the oldest sort. Thus the use of sail would presumably have come to an end early in 20th century. Ophir III would presumably have been renamed in WW1 and the picture is therefore younger. I wonder however, when the use of sail came to an end. I noticed in Board of trade enquiries into ships losses, trawlers were still being referred to as e.g. ketch rigged, in the thirties. 
What purpose did it serve? Was it just a fossilized mode of expression, or where british trawlers still using sail in the thirties?
Birgir


----------



## Steve Farrow

Steam trawlers still carried their mizzen sails in the 1950's, largely as a steadying sail. The seine netters carried main and mizzen until the 60's in some cases. It seems to be having a comeback and I can't see why they ever stopped carrying them.
Steve


----------



## birgir

Steve.
you seem to have a huge collection of photos. How about the trawlers I asked about, Kings Grey and Ceresio? When I was in Hull a decade ago, I saw a post war pic of Ceresio without a boat deck. 

Birgir Thorisson


----------



## Steve Farrow

Sorry Birgir, I don't have either of those two ships.
Steve


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## mattarosa

*Friends in Conflict*

I have not contributed anything at all for quite some time because of my temporary housing arrangements. I am quite fed up with my life as a refugee and I’m looking forward to moving into my new house on 8 December and hope to be up and running normally again by New Year.

I’ve been looking at the fine pictures which Steve has been posting in the gallery, and checking my files to see whether the Times had anything to say about any of them. I found that three of them were involved in Cod War incidents, which were made much of in the press. These were Ross Khartoum, Everton and Vivaria.

ROSS KHARTOUM was involved in a fairly routine incident as Cod War incidents go. On 31 August 1964, she was arrested by the Icelandic gunboat Thor while allegedly fishing within Iceland’s 12-mile limit south of Langanes peninsula. It was said that when the gunboat approached the trawler the crew cut their trawl and attempted to escape. The gunboat fired three blank rounds and then three warning shots, after which the trawler hove to, and was then escorted into Seydisfjordur, eastern Iceland, where Dennis Speck, aged 38, the skipper of the Ross Khartoum was fined 260,000 kronur (about £2,160) and had his catch and equipment confiscated. 

On 1 September 1972, Iceland imposed a 50-mile fishing limit. An interesting article was published by the Times on 2 September 1972 which outlined the stance of the two countries, which was basically a case of “Friends in Conflict” (which was later the title of a book written by Hannes Jonsson, who I think was Iceland’s Minister for Information) on the subject. Iceland said the outcome in the end would be the same as that after the imposition of the 12-mile limit in 1958 (which it was) while Britain said (or at least Commander Charles Adams, captain of the trawler support ship Miranda, said) “The trawlermen are going to keep on fishing” (which, sadly, they haven’t). At this time, apparently, the British trawlers had all painted over their numbers and names to prevent identification, and the Icelanders moved among the fleet taking pictures and trying to identify them (a bit like our “guess the trawler” items here!) According to the Times, Iceland was not as good at this as you guys are because they identified a trawler as Prudella 391, which was believed to be Brucella H291. One trawler that was successfully identified, however, was the Grimsby trawler EVERTON, and her captain Bill Hardy, was warned that he was fishing inside the limit. 

In May 1973, the EVERTON was fired on by the Icelandic gunboat Aegir, and caused a flurry of name-calling, with Britain expressing shock at the “shameful attacks” and Iceland accusing Britain of acting like a bully issuing threats against a small defenceless nation. While the politicians swapped insults, the Everton was preparing to rejoin the fishing fleet after being patched up by frogmen working from the ocean-going tug Statesman.

In June 1973, VIVARIA was involved in an incident that was possibly exaggerated by both sides for propaganda purposes. Iceland claimed that their coastguard vessel Avakur was “rammed.” The ships on the British side were the tug Irishman and the trawler Vivaria. Depending on which side you believe, this was either an act of aggression by British “pirates and buccaneers” which rendered the Icelandic vessel unseaworthy and endangered the lives of 15 seamen, or it was an accidental scrape resulting in a trivial dent in the side of the Icelandic vessel and caused by its aggressive behaviour. I suspect the truth was somewhere in between.

I hope this is of some interest and of no offence, as I think Birgir is from Iceland, and most of the rest of us are from Britain. It would be interesting to hear Iceland’s version of events we only had the chance to read about in British newspapers. I actually have a little booklet putting Iceland’s side but, of course, it is currently in storage along with the rest of my worldly goods. I am very interested in the Cod Wars because they had such a big impact on the course of the fishing industry here. I can see both sides in the dispute. I suppose it just wasn’t possible to have an outcome that everybody would be happy with, even if the official outcome of the dispute was “compromise”. Though these were called “wars”, there were no fatalities. I think that friendly relations between Britain and Iceland now exist. I’d love to visit Iceland as I think it is a very interesting country and it would certainly cater to my interest in fishy things. 

Hilary


----------



## birgir

Hi Hilary.
No offence is taken, but I would like to explain the reason why we were so upset with the incident involving Vivaria and Arvakur (not Avakur). Arvakur was not a gunboat, it was never armed. It was a vessel of the coastguard, but it was the lighthouse tender. It was hounded by number of much bigger and faster ships, which repeatedly tried to ram it. 
It was a strange "war". When the Everton was fired upon (by a 19th century 12 pounder, leftover from the Danish navy,) the coastguard captain informed the trawler skipper were the round would hit, and told him to move the crew away.
These were heady days. I was young, and developed a vitriolic hatred of everything British, (yet failed to notice that there was any connection between Everton the trawler and Everton the football club. Somehow it never clicked that the saturday football match on tv was from the same country as the bloody trawlers.) Well my anti-british attitudes have abated (still highly prejudiced against Land Rover and Range Rover cars) though.

Birgir


----------



## Anchorman

*Everton shelled in cod war*

The previous links were very interesting. I was on the Statesman when the Everton got shelled. I have a scan of a photo somewere of the incident, which I will put on the Gallery, when I find it. It was certainly an interesting time. If I remember right the skipper finished the trip with the "biscuit tin" and cement box repair. I believe he was an ex boxer but didnt recognise the name given in the previous posts.


----------



## Steve Farrow

The skipper of the EVERTON at the time of the incident was George 'Cocker Mussel'. I think the funnel was holed and the bow section.
Steve


----------



## grahamhussey

hi all further to the everton being shelled i was galley boy on that trip my first trip back after losing a couple of digits on the ****nal (another story) i was only 15 at the time cocker mussel was skipper (sadly died last year) we also had a newspaper reporter with us i believe from the daily express he used to send reports back home all the time so i guess these must be in the archives somewhere his name was gerry ? bigir is correct about us being told where the next shell was to be aimed the captain of the gunboat wanted to shell our rudder but cocker told him no way where we going forward so he didnt fire at us aft i think we had about 7 holes in our hull (i could easily be wrong on that one) we also had the support vessel miranda tied alongside us for a short time i have sailed with one or two of the lads since 73 and one told me he had part of a shell the he had found in the fishroom the next trip. when we went home we where told not to speak to any reporters on the quay (i heard say we would get some money off the daily express (i'm still waiting lol) ) strangely noone had a camera on that trip not even the reporter even more strange you couldnt move on the everton the next trip because of them i only did 2 trips on the everton i then went to college
keep up the chat
regards gray


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## Anchorman

Yes it was skipper mussel, I remember now. I went on the Everton to place the pumps off the Statesman, to pump out once the navy had fixed the hole. I got soaked in the focsle (I think you call it whaleback) and spent a while in the galley getting dry and full of stew. We followed the gunboat back to Iceland, but not sure why. It was a real eyeopener for me seeing how you guys worked.


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## grahamhussey

hi all one of the shots went through the starboard side forward through the anchor hawser pipe and out through the portside so yes your right anchorman when you said you were soaked to the skin because i think there was over 10 feet of water down the fore hold (if you had some stew and it was nice i made it if it wasnt then it was the cooks fault lol)
gray


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## scorpio69

Clem said:


> Hi everyone, I've started this thread to discuss Grimsby fishing vessels. I'm in the process of compiling a database of the above and, would welcome any contributions on this theme. ie. photo's, stories of life on board, histories of the vessels etc.
> 
> Hopefully as this thread develops, it can become a reference point for people with similar interests.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Clem


Hi.
I too am compiling a database of my 1200 [approx] 60 x 60 slides of fishing vessels & fishing vessel repairs. I have quite a lot of the slides with 'Lesley Garland Picture Library' & online with www.alamy.com 
I am looking for back copies of Olsen's fishermans nautical almanac from 1975 to 1986. If you know of any spare copies anywhere I would be eternally grateful. I need to tie-up fishing vessel names with their numbers & fishing vessel numbers with their names etc.
Best regards
Ian


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## birgir

Hi everyone.

Just a *****ly footnote. The Everton cannot have been shelled, because the Icelandic coast guard had no shells, only solid shots. I have always understood the term shell, as relating to a shell filled with explosives. Perhaps the more proper term would be a more archaic "bombarded".

Birgir Thorisson


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## grahamhussey

hi birgir
explosive or not i know they certainly made holes 
gray


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## mattarosa

*Friends*



birgir said:


> Hi Hilary.
> No offence is taken, but I would like to explain the reason why we were so upset with the incident involving Vivaria and Arvakur (not Avakur). Arvakur was not a gunboat, it was never armed. It was a vessel of the coastguard, but it was the lighthouse tender. It was hounded by number of much bigger and faster ships, which repeatedly tried to ram it.
> It was a strange "war". When the Everton was fired upon (by a 19th century 12 pounder, leftover from the Danish navy,) the coastguard captain informed the trawler skipper were the round would hit, and told him to move the crew away.
> These were heady days. I was young, and developed a vitriolic hatred of everything British, (yet failed to notice that there was any connection between Everton the trawler and Everton the football club. Somehow it never clicked that the saturday football match on tv was from the same country as the bloody trawlers.) Well my anti-british attitudes have abated (still highly prejudiced against Land Rover and Range Rover cars) though.
> 
> Birgir


Hi Birgir
It is very interesting to hear how things looked from your side of the water, and to hear from others who were involved. It really makes history come to life. It is good that we are all friends here, sharing a common interest in fishing vessels.

I am not sure what you have against Land Rover and Range Rover cars, but though these type of vehicles have become very fashionable and a status symbol, I haven't got one, because I love my red VW Golf.

Hilary


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## mattarosa

*November events*

You have all gone very quiet again, so I thought I would try to wake you up.

The following are all events in which Grimsby trawlers (or drifters or smacks) were involved during the month of November in various years. Unfortunately, all of these involve casualties. I don't know what the actual statistics are but I would guess that casualties were (are?) greatest in the winter months. I listen to the shipping forecast every morning before going to work, and at the moment gales and poor visibility feature strongly.

I can do some more like this if anyone finds it of any interest or value because I only looked at part of my files.

Hilary

NOVEMBER EVENTS

1901 
Thursday, November 25
Shipping Casualties
Anxiety is felt in Grimsby on account of the protracted absence from the port of the steam trawler AMAZON. The Amazon is owned by Messrs G and J Alward, and sailed on a North Sea voyage about 18 days ago and has not yet returned. The North Sea voyage usually lasts some ten days. The vessel had the ordinary trawler's crew of nine or ten hands. There is anxiety, too, with regard to Mr H Smethurst's cod smack JAMES STEPHENSON, of Grimsby; it is feared that she has gone down with all hands. The smack left port three weeks ago and was provisioned for the usual voyage. She carried seven hands. The steam trawler SVINO, of Grimsby, has towed into North Shields the steamer Fredensborg, of Copenhagen, which was disabled owing to her intermediate shaft breaking. The Fredensborg had previously collided with the steam trawler LACONIA whilst the latter was trying to render her assistance. The crew of the steam trawler GALATIA, of Grimsby, made a gallant, but unsuccessful attempt to tow into port the derelict brigantine, Jensen, which she found drifting in the North Sea about 130 miles NE of the Spurn on November 15. The Galatia took the derelict in tow, but she leaked so badly that she sank on November 16, taking a cargo of coal to the bottom.

1915
Thursday, November 25
The Grimsby trawler FITZROY has been given up as lost with her crew of nine hands. Nothing has been heard of her since October 11, when she was last seen by the Grimsby trawler NARBERTH CASTLE.

1923
Friday, November 30
The Grimsby trawler DEE was sunk in collision with the trawler REPORTO on the Humber late on Wednesday night. The crew were saved.

1928
Monday, November 12
The Grimsby drifter BELOVAR has been sunk in collision with the Grimsby trawler DELILA in the mouth of the Humber. The trawler towed the drifter for 20 minutes until her decks were awash. The crew of five were then taken off and the vessel sank.

1947
Monday, November 10
The Hull trawler Thomas Altoft was reported on Saturday night to be ashore on the rocks off the island of Harris. The crew of 15 were all rescued in rough seas by the Grimsby trawler FLANDERS. It was feared that the Thomas Altoft might become a total loss.

1953
Tuesday, November 3
After a tow of 130 miles, which took 30 hours in a southerly gale and rough seas, the Grimsby trawler CHURCHILL brought another Grimsby trawler, the COVENTRY CITY, safely into Scrabster, Caithness, early yesterday. The Coventry City had her propeller fouled by a hawser while fishing.

1955
Wednesday, November 2
Grimsby Trawler Lost Off Iceland
FOUR OF CREW DROWNED
The Grimsby steam trawler BARRY CASTLE (380 tons) has foundered off the coast of Iceland in bad weather, the British Trawler Federation stated last night. She had a crew of 18.
The trawler, which belonged to Consolidated Fisheries Ltd, of Grimsby, got into trouble while fishing in big seas and sank soon after she had been taken in tow by the Hull trawler Princess Elizabeth. The trawlers STAFNES and VIVIANA were standing close by at the time and the naval fisheries protection boat Romala was also near.
The Barry Castle is the fourth British trawler to be lost off Iceland this year.
REYKJAVIK, Nov 1 – Four members of the crew of the Barry Castle were drowned. Ten other men jumped to safety on the decks of another trawler which steamed alongside the Barry Castle as she went down. Five were pulled out of the sea. The trawler sank suddenly.
Our Grimsby correspondent writes: The missing men in the Barry Castle are Chief Engineer R Worrell, aged 57; Second Engineer J Stewart, aged 65; Third Hand James William Barber, aged 55; Deck Hand Sidney Grant, aged 61.


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## birgir

Hi Hilary.

Your account of the Barry Castle reminded me of the description of her sister, the Valafell, in the book Grand Old Ladies. The comment was that this type of ships, (the Fish class naval trawlers) were so bad seaboats that they needed two echosounders, one in the bottom of the ship, like normal ships, and another on top of the bridge.
The Icelandic account I have of the sinking says that the bunkers started to leak. (apparently late in the evening), off the western fiords. At 0300 in the morning, the skipper called up Princess Elizabeth, asking her to take Barry Castle in tow, because sea in the engine room was forcing them to shut down the engines. The tow was difficult in heavy weather. Just after noon the following day, Barry Castle fired distress rockets and radioed that the ship was sinking. As Princess Elizabeth slowed down, Barry Castle healed over on the side, and quickly sank stem first. The Viviana and the Stafnes steamed alongside, and 10 men succeeded in jumping abord the Viviana, while the Stafnes recovered 3 from the sea. The Cape Portland picked two more from the sea. The survivors were transferred to the Stafnes, which took them to Isafjordur where they were transferred to the Romula which took them to Reykjavik, from where they flew home.

Birgir


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## Steve Farrow

Very interesting reading Hilary! An aquaintance of mine was a young lad on the Barry Castle on that trip. He said that she had steel decks and I think he said the steel bobbins badly cracked a manhole cover, letting sea water pour in. He was thrown in the sea when she went over and he was dragged out of the water by his hair by Skipper Jim Gamble on the Viviana, thus saving his life.
The ships bell was trawled up some years later and presented to the National Fishing Heritage Centre.
The Barry Castle was built as a Fish Class and called the Grayling.
Steve


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## mattarosa

birgir said:


> The Viviana and the Stafnes steamed alongside, and 10 men succeeded in jumping abord the Viviana, while the Stafnes recovered 3 from the sea. The Cape Portland picked two more from the sea. The survivors were transferred to the Stafnes, which took them to Isafjordur where they were transferred to the Romula which took them to Reykjavik, from where they flew home.
> 
> Hi Birgir
> Thanks for all that extra information, which is very interesting. In all my reading about trawlers, I am constantly impressed by how much trawlers helped each other in such emergencies. I suppose they must never have known when they might need help themselves, but the humanity and bravery of the crews in helping each other is remarkable.
> 
> I am also constantly shocked by how many casualties and tragedies there were over the years. Were as many Icelandic trawlers and fishermen lost over the years as British ones?
> Hilary


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## mattarosa

Steve Farrow said:


> Very interesting reading Hilary! An aquaintance of mine was a young lad on the Barry Castle on that trip. He said that she had steel decks and I think he said the steel bobbins badly cracked a manhole cover, letting sea water pour in. He was thrown in the sea when she went over and he was dragged out of the water by his hair by Skipper Jim Gamble on the Viviana, thus saving his life.
> The ships bell was trawled up some years later and presented to the National Fishing Heritage Centre.
> The Barry Castle was built as a Fish Class and called the Grayling.
> Steve



Hi Steve
Thanks for the extra details, and the picture. Obviously (and thankfully) the boy had some hair, and not a shaved head, or fuzz, which seems quite fashionable now.

I can see that if I post details of relatively recent events (if 1955 can be described as recent), there is a good chance of someone on here having some personal connection to it, and adding details, which is great. I'll have to bear that in mind for future posts, as not many people are likely to remember things, or even to know anyone who remembers things, that happened in 1901 !!
Hilary


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## birgir

Hi. Time to revive this thread.

What can you tell me about this trawler. Friesland Gy 459?

Birgir


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## Steve Farrow

Built as the BALMORAL CASTLE GY 530, in 1899 by the Dundee Ship Building Co for the Grimsby Castle Line. In June 1908 sold to Holland. In May 1909 re-named Friesland GY 459. July 1917 sold to Zaree St Fg Co Lost 21.May, 1921 25 miles from Spurn Point.
268 gross tons, 121 net tons
Steve


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## Roger Griffiths

On GY reg as FRIESLAND 5/May/1909 O/N 110904

Roger


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## mattarosa

Here is an item from the Times about Friesland.

The Times, Thursday, May 25, 1922; pg. 5
Probate, Divorce, And Admiralty Division. Loss Of A Grimsby Trawler: Manager's Successful Appeal. The Friesland
(Before the Right Hon. Sir Henry Duke, President, and Mr Justice Hill, sitting as a Divisional Court, with Nautical Assessors.)
The court allowed this appeal by Mr Henry Burns, the registered manager of the steam trawler Friesland, of Grimsby, owned by the Zaree Steam Fishing Company Limited, from the decision of a Court of Formal Investigation held at Great Grimsby in July and August 1931, ordering him to pay to the Board of Trade £200 towards the expenses of the enquiry into the abandonment and subsequent sinking of the Friesland in the North Sea, about twenty five miles from the Spurn Light, on May 12, 1931.
The Friesland, which had been laid up in the Alexandra Dock for about five months, left Grimsby on May 12 on a fishing voyage. Soon afterwards it was discovered by the engine room staff that she was making water, but no report of this was made to the master until much later, when, although every effort, as the court found, was made to save her, she had to be abandoned and she sank. Evidence was given that before the ship left the superintendent engineer suggested that she should be dry-docked as she had been lying in dock for some months, but this was not considered by Mr Burns to be necessary.
The Court of Inquiry exonerated the navigating officers from blame, but severely censured the engineers for not having told the master that the vessel was making water at a much earlier time than they did. The Court was unable to determine the cause of the inrush of water which caused the vessel to founder, but came to the conclusion that she must be presumed to have been unseaworthy when she left Grimsby. They reported as follows:-
Under ordinary cir***stances the Court could not necessarily blame an owner for not docking his vessel solely because she had not been out of dock for ten and a half months, but considering she had been laid up five months in the Alexandra Dock in which, according to the evidence of Mr Waddingham (superintendent engineer) timber might rise up when the water was disturbed and damage the ship’s bottom, the Court considers Mr Henry Burns to blame for not accepting Mr Waddingham’s suggestion that she should be dry-docked and thoroughly examined before she went to sea.
From that finding Mr Burns now appealed, on the grounds that there was no evidence or no sufficient evidence that the vessel was unseaworthy when she left port, or that he had been guilty of negligence and that he had been taken by surprise and had had no opportunity of adducing evidence on the question of the possibility of damage by timber and the necessity for dry-docking the vessel.
Mr J A Compton, K.C., and Mr Harold Simmons appeared for the appellant; Mr J B Aspinall for the Board of Trade; and Mr H C S Dumas for underwriters.
The President, in giving judgment, said he dissented from the proposition that there was an obligation of prudent and reasonable conduct which required the appellant to know that the Friesland lying in the Alexandra Dock was exposed to special risk from timber rising up and damaging her bottom. The appeal would be allowed, without costs.
Solicitors – Messrs Woolfe and Woolfe, for Messrs Wainwright, Woolfe, and Brown, of Grimsby, for the appellant; the Solicitor to the Board of Trade; and Messrs Pritchard and Sons, for Messrs A M Jackson and Co., of Hull, for underwriters.

Hilary


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## mattarosa

*Another November Event*

Another November event from the past - the loss of the trawler Golden Deeps, a trawler with a lovely name, which came to such a sad end. R.I.P.

The Times, Tuesday, Nov 08, 1932; pg. 14
Grimsby Trawler Wrecked Watchers Unable To Help, 12 Bodies Recovered FROM OUR CORRESPONDENT.
OSLO, Nov.7
Thirteen members of the crew of the trawler GOLDEN DEEPS, of Grimsby, lost their lives when she was wrecked off Breiviksbotn, on Sörö Island, off the north-west coast of Norway, yesterday. Her master, Captain Norman, and two passengers, of who one is the brother-in-law of her owner and the other a Grimsby fish-merchant, are safe, as they were on shore at the time of the wreck.
The trawler anchored at 1 pm off Breiviksbotn, and the master and his passengers went ashore. About
3 pm the gale increased to hurricane force, making communication with the trawler impossible, and in a squall the anchor chain parted. As the trawler began to drift the crew could be seen working to drop another anchor, and twice the ship was brought up against the wind; but in vain. The heavy seas drove her before them, and when about 150 yards from the shore she struck and disappeared under the surf. Only her masts and funnel were partly visible.
All the inhabitants of the little fishing village gathered on the shore, but were quite unable to help. Some of the crew tried to swim ashore, but perished in the surf; others clung to the masts and it was not until three hours after the trawler had struck that their shouts for help ceased.
During the night 12 bodies were washed ashore. It is supposed that some accident crippled the trawler’s engines after the anchor chain had parted.

The Times, Monday, Nov 14, 1932; pg. 11
News in Brief
The Norwegian warship Fridtjof Nansen will convey to Tromsoe for burial the bodies of the men who perished in the sinking of the Grimsby trawler Golden Deeps.

Steve has painted a beautiful picture of the Golden Deeps, which can be seen on his website.

http://www.trawlerart.com/11.htm

Hilary


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## mattarosa

*And another November event*

Just so I am not only ever posting sad news, here is a nice story of the bravery of the crew of a Grimsby trawler in November 1913.

1913 November 25
Rescue Of A Shipwrecked Crew. Fishermen's Bravery.
The Grimsby steam trawler HALCYON returned to port yesterday having on board, Captain Christiansen and 16 men, the crew of the Norwegian barque Nebo, which had been wrecked in the North Sea.
The Nebo, which was bound for Cardiff with timber, experienced violent weather yesterday week, and was badly damaged by the gale during the next two days. By Wednesday she had lost every shred of canvas, her bulwarks had been carried away, and she was awash from stem to stern. She was drifting helplessly on to the Horn Reef when the Halcyon sighted her distress signals. The trawler bore down, but the weather was too wild to attempt rescue work, and throughout Wednesday and Thursday the Halcyon stood by. The storm moderated to some extent on Friday morning, and the Halcyon’s mate, Samuel George Inch, of Grimsby, and William Dennis, the third hand, of Cleethorpes, got out the trawler’s boat. The vessels were but a few cables’ length apart but so rough was the sea that it took the men nearly two hours to reach the wreck. They took off seven of the Finnish seamen, pulled with them to the trawler, and twice repeated their dangerous journey, thus rescuing the whole of the crew. The waterlogged barge was left drifting about 270 miles from Spurn Head. Captain Christiansen spoke in terms of great praise of the fishermen’s gallantry. He said they were splendid brave fellows.
(On Thursday, 16 April 1914, on behalf of the King of Norway, the Mayor of Grimsby awarded a silver cup to Skipper George Starmer, and silver medals and certificates to Samuel George Inch and William Dennis of the Grimsby trawler, Halcyon, for gallantry in rescuing the captain and 16 hands of the Norwegian barque Nebo, which foundered during a heavy gale last November. Four journeys had to be made by Inch and Dennis in a small boat, to take off the shipwrecked crew.)

Hilary


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## roy roberts

Hi Clem, 
Just thought i would let you know my book is on sale again in W.H.Smith's has about 100 photos in it. The told me a few months ago it was out of print so they must have done a Xmas run on it. It is called Trawlers Of Humberside.There may be a few members out there interested.
 R. Roberts


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## Clem

Thanks Roy, I take it you mean WH Smiths in GY? I'll pay them a visit next time I get over that way.

Regards

Clem


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## mattarosa

*Where did everyone go?*

I just got my Broadband back after my house move, and came here for a visit, but found the place deserted. Perhaps you are all celebrating the New Year a day or two early?

Anyway, Happy New Year to everyone, and hope for lots more interesting posts here next year.

Hilary


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## birgir

Hi Hilary.

Welcome back. I suspect that the reason for things going quiet here may have something to do with the appearance of the Fleetwood online archive website, which has details about 3000+ trawlers. So rather than inquire here, one has a pretty good chance to find details there.

However, not all ships are there. There was a Grimsby trawler called ANDROMACHE, (313 grt) sunk by U-boat in april 1917. Do you know anything about that ship. (I just got Vol 1 of a huge biographical lexicon for Icelandi skippers and mates, which records this ship to be built according to the precepts of skipper Asgeir Torfason, her designated skipper, who previously 1913-14 was skipper of the Colonia. So is this story true? Who owned these ships?)

Happy new year.

Birgir Thorisson


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## Clem

Hi folks, I'm still here looking in now and then. Best wishes for the New Year all.

Clem


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## Kerbtrawler

birgir said:


> Hi Hilary.
> 
> Welcome back. I suspect that the reason for things going quiet here may have something to do with the appearance of the Fleetwood online archive website, which has details about 3000+ trawlers. So rather than inquire here, one has a pretty good chance to find details there.
> 
> However, not all ships are there. There was a Grimsby trawler called ANDROMACHE, (313 grt) sunk by U-boat in april 1917. Do you know anything about that ship. (I just got Vol 1 of a huge biographical lexicon for Icelandi skippers and mates, which records this ship to be built according to the precepts of skipper Asgeir Torfason, her designated skipper, who previously 1913-14 was skipper of the Colonia. So is this story true? Who owned these ships?)
> 
> Happy new year.
> 
> Birgir Thorisson


Hi Birgir Happy New Year
Here's the info on the trawler

Built 02/1914 by Cochranes of Selby
GY 31
Official No 135997
313Gt 160Nt
140 x 24 x 12.5
Quarter Deck 77'
Foc'sle 20'
Original Owners Buckworth & Mumby of Cork
04/1916 went to Leith Owners

The Andromarche Skipper was made Prisoner when the vessel was captured 
The vessel was then Sunk
This all Happened off Portland nr Iceland. The vessel was on its way from Hull to Iceland according to Lloyds War losses

regards
Trevor


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## birgir

Thank you Trevor.

Strange though to have owners of Grimsby trawlers in Ireland.

Birgir


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## Kerbtrawler

Hi Birgir,
Its not really surprising due to the fact that during this time there were over 1800 trawlers of various types and sizes registered at the port

Have a good week 
regards
trevor


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## mattarosa

*Sargon*

Steve
I noticed that this month's "We shall not see their like again" in the Bygones tells the story of the wreck of the Sargon in 1948. As usual, I checked to see what the Times had to say about it. I was surprised to find that there must have been an earlier Sargon, which also came to a very sad end.

The Times, Saturday, Feb 17, 1923
Fears are entertained at Grimsby that the local trawler Sargon has been lost. The vessel left the Lofoten Islands homeward bound on February 3, and ordinarily the voyage to Grimsby would take only five days.

The Times, Wednesday, Feb 21, 1923
The Grimsby trawler Sargon was yesterday officially given up as lost with all hands. No news has been heard of the vessel, which carried a crew of twelve, since she left the Norwegian coast early this month on the homeward voyage.

Hilary


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## mattarosa

*Sargon 1948*

Here is what the Times said in 1948

The Times, Saturday, Mar 20, 1937
GRIMSBY TRAWLER WRECKED
ELEVEN LIVES LOST
Reykjavik, Dec 3 – The six survivors of the crew of the Grimsby trawler Sargon, which was wrecked in Patreksfjord, are being cared for at farms. Ten others of the crew died of exposure and another was washed overboard.
The Sargon, which left Hull for Iceland on November 24, was caught by a gale miles from shore. Her captain and crew made a great fight to reach the relative shelter of the fjord and succeeded in reaching the outer stretches, but strong winds and high seas prevented their gaining the harbour.
Coastguards and farmers from the scattered villages near the fjord went to help, in answer to a radioed S.O.S. as the Sargon began to founder. For hours they struggled to reach a point where they could get a lifeline to the trawler. After rigging the line they hauled in, in a bosun’s chair, those of the crew who had sufficient strength left to clamber into it. Mountainous seas and a 70-mile-an-hour gale made it impossible for either the Sargon’s lifeboats or rescue vessels from the shore to be launched.
The Sargon is a complete wreck. Rescue parties were standing by today to try, at the first favourable opportunity, to recover the bodies.

The Times, Monday, Dec 06, 1948
TRAWLER SURVIVORS WELL CARED FOR
Reykjavik, Dec 5
The six survivors from the Grimsby trawler Sargon, which was wrecked on the west coast of Iceland on the evening of November 30, are being well cared for and should soon recover. The news of the rescue was delayed because of storm damage to communications on the west coast.

The Times, Wednesday, May 11, 1949
LOSS OF THE SARGON
COURT’S TRIBUTE
Hull, May 10
The findings were delivered today of an investigation ordered by the Ministry of Transport and held at Hull Guildhall before Mr K S Carpmael, K.C., into the loss of the steam trawler Sargon. This vessel was wrecked off the west coast of Iceland on December 1 last. Eleven lives were lost. Six men were rescued by lifeline.
The court of inquiry found that very bad weather was the cause and that there was no question of any wrongful act by the owners, skipper or any other person. No blame could be attached to the skipper, Mr A. E. Jenner, of Hull, who lost his life, for seeking the shelter of Patreksfjord or for dodging about on various courses after finding that his anchor would not hold. The court of inquiry also found that that the Sargon was seaworthy when she left her home port and that the lifesaving appliances complied fully with the regulations.
The court paid tribute to the fortitude of the skipper and the crew, most of whom perished from exposure in a severe gale and snowstorm, and to the efforts made by the rescue party on shore.


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## mattarosa

*Sargon mystery*

Now I am wondering whether there was only one Sargon after all because I found this little piece in the Times in 1953.

The Times, Tuesday, Feb 17, 1953
Grimsby, Feb 16
No news has been received of the Grimsby trawler Sheldon, of 278 tons, which was last heard of on January 30 and was due back today from a voyage to the Faroes. The owners, Sir Thomas Robinson and Son, state that they have not yet abandoned hope, and that the Sheldon is presumed to be drifting helplessly, as was her sister ship, the Sargon, missing for seven weeks in 1923.

So it looks as if the Sargon presumed lost in 1923 was found, but for some reason, the Times is silent about this good news.

Anyone know more about this story?

Hilary


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## Steve Farrow

*Sargon*

It's good to see you back again Hilary..................and as always, with an interesting tale!
The SARGON was indeed given up for lost, as reported in the Times, and the story of her harrowing tale was summed up by the Grimsby Evening Telegraph as "Back from the dead."
It's along story and it would take a book to do it justice, but I will attempt to condense it.
The Sargon left Grimsby on January 12th 1923 for the fishing grounds of the White Sea with a crew of twelve men. The next day she spotted the distress signals of of another trawler, the Ethel Nutton and took her in tow. Slowly she began to sink, so all of her crew were transferred over to the Sargon. Just prior to releasing the tow-line it parted, injuring one of the Sargon's crew Mr. H. Beavers of Grimsby. It was decided to land him in Leith and his replacement was a Granton lad called John Bell (17).
After heading out once again to the fishing grounds, she encountered heavy weather for most of the way.
On Febrary 3rd, she arrived at the Lofoten Islands with her fish room full and set course for home. Just 24 hours later she was hit by violent storms and snow which made navigating almost impossible. It was relentless and on February 6th it intensified and blew her way off course. Three days later the coal and food supplies had all run out. All the hapless crew could do was rig distress signals in the hope that a passing ship would see them.
Back in GY nothing had been heard from her and so, on 20th of February she was pronounced as 'Lost with all hands'.
On board the trawler, the situation became dreadful. all the wood and rope had been burnt to try and attract attention to any passing ships. Fish was taken from the catch as the only available food.
On the 27th she was spotted by the German trawler Schleswig Holstein and taken under tow to Iceland, where she docked on the 2nd March.
A message was sent home saying " Sargon towed in by German trawler today,Sargon without coal. Burnt all gear, and crew without food except for fish for 16 days. Sargon picked up off Ingolgsfolde. Towed about 200 miles. Sargon requires 70 tons of coal, small boat, provisions and engineroom stores. (signed) Agent Reykjavik.
At home the relatives of the crew had actually been paid the insurance money from the Lincolnshire Steam Trawlers Mutual Insurance Co Ltd. in the belief that the crew had perished.
A tremendous welcome awaited the ship on her return home with all of the families on the dockside to greet themA local reporter described the men as looking emaciated.
The last member of the crew to leave the ship was very cheerful "Oh come on," said an anxious lady as the man clambered onto the quay. His reply came back, " All right,don't worry, I,m a dead man and you can't expect a dead man to hurry!" Then he went away laughing.

This text has been loosly quoted from Steve Richards excellent book about Grimsby trawlers...Grand Old Ladies.

Steve


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## mattarosa

Steve Farrow said:


> It's good to see you back again Hilary..................and as always, with an interesting tale!
> 
> An interesting tale, indeed, but you are the teller. It is such a life enhancing story, you have to wonder why the Times did not report it (or not that I have found, I will investigate further now I have some names and dates). Perhaps newspapers only like bad news?
> 
> I can't help wondering if the relatives had to give the insurance money back? I expect they did. Still, I can't even imagine the joy of discovering that someone you loved and thought was dead was still alive. That feeling would be worth paying for!
> 
> Hilary


----------



## Steve Farrow

*Sargon*

Hi Hilary,
I have sent you an email with the full article that was printed in the early 1980's.
It was such an event at the time and as you may imagine, over the years a lot of myths have cropped up about some of the wives re-marrying and so on, but the facts are here. The crew said they ate dead rats and seagulls, but with all that fish, I would have an open mind on that claim!
regards
Steve


----------



## treeve

I have just completed the pages on

*Selected Grimsby Trawlers*
THEBAN GY 937 and My great Uncle Charles Forward
STAUNTON GY350, DRUMMER GY 1097, LYNX II GY 133, 
BROMELIA GY 113, TRIBUNE GY 563, MALTA GY 325, 
NADINE GY 138, ATHENIAN GY 357, ATHELSTAN GY 648,
LIBYAN GY 938, WIGMORE GY469
http://freepages.family.rootsweb.com/~treevecwll/gt.htm
If anyone can add anything to the accounts or details
I would be grateful.

Please does anyone have photographs of 
THEBAN GY 937, MALTA GY 325, NADINE GY 138,
STAUNTON GY350, DRUMMER GY 1097, TRIBUNE GY 563

Steve Farrow and Roger Griffiths have already 
been very kind and helpful,
so thank you again.

Best Wishes, Raymond


----------



## mattarosa

treeve said:


> I have just completed the pages on
> 
> STAUNTON GY350
> 
> Hi Raymond
> I've had a very quick look at your pages and they look great. I look forward to studying them in detail after work.
> 
> I have a friend whose fisherman father was on the Staunton immediately before the war, but when the trawler went off to war, he did not as his young wife was expecting. A very lucky escape for him, he lived into his 80s.
> 
> If you ever find a photograph of Staunton, I would love to see it. I've been hunting for one for years, and I'm not the only one!
> 
> Hilary


----------



## treeve

Hi Hilary, would the fisherman father's name be Clarke, by the way?
I believe we have exchanged emails before re picture of STAUNTON.
Best wishes, and thanks, Raymond


----------



## mattarosa

treeve said:


> Hi Hilary, would the fisherman father's name be Clarke, by the way?
> I believe we have exchanged emails before re picture of STAUNTON.
> Best wishes, and thanks, Raymond


Hi Raymond
No, not Clarke. I told you I wasn't the only one!

We may well have exchanged emails before. I've asked everyone I've ever heard of.

I admire you for publishing your researches. I might do the same if only I had time. Still, only 9 years to retirement (and counting).

Hilary


----------



## Steve Farrow

*Trbune*

Hi Ray,
While not technically the TRIBUNE shown here, this is her after being renamed LORD BEACONSFIELD.
Add me to the growing list of people wanting the STAUNTON! It is for a good friend of mine, James Freer who lost a relative on her.
I am also keen to obtain a photo of the Grimsby trawler SARPEDON if any body has one.
Regards
Steve


----------



## jcullen

Hi
Iam also looking for info on the sheldon, as my grandad was lost on her.
john


----------



## mattarosa

*Sheldon*



jcullen said:


> Hi
> Iam also looking for info on the sheldon, as my grandad was lost on her.
> john


Hi J
I posted a small item from the Times about the Sheldon in connection with our discussion about the Sargon, but there were a couple more. Here they are in case they are of interest.

The Times, Wednesday, Jan 28, 1925
The trawler Sheldon, of Grimsby, has been seized off the coast of Finmark of a charge of fishing in Norwegian territorial waters, and has been taken into Vardo.

The Times, Saturday, Aug 02, 1952
GRIMSBY TRAWLER ARRESTED
Torshavn, Faroe Islands, August 1 – The 278-ton Grimsby trawler Sheldon was arrested for alleged illegal fishing today and taken to Torshavn.

The Times, Thursday, Feb 19, 1953
HOPE ABANDONED FOR MISSING TRAWLER
Grimsby, Feb 18
The owners of the Grimsby trawler Sheldon, of which nothing has been heard since January 30, stated today that there can now be no further hope for the safety of the vessel and her crew of 14. From reports received from other trawlers it is presumed that the Sheldon was caught in a sudden gale on January 31 and sank.

The Times, Wednesday, Feb 25, 1953
A lifebuoy belonging to the Grimsby trawler Sheldon, missing since leaving Orkney on January 30, has been picked up at Burra, Shetland.


I assume your grandad was on board in January 1953?

Hilary


----------



## mattarosa

*From the top of the dock tower*

I was quite interested to see this view of Grimsby docks in a postcard which is for sale on ebay. I have collected postcards of Grimsby for some time, but have never seen this one. What part of the docks is shown?

Unfortunately, I won't be adding this one to my collection as bidding is already up to £13 and there are still 3 days to go.

Hilary


----------



## treeve

Thank you, again, Steve, 
for that fine picture of a very smart looking ex TRIBUNE.

The information I have is that a seaman by the name of Clarke avoided death on the STAUNTON because he was on leave at the time of sailing.


----------



## mattarosa

*Sheldon*

I missed one...

The Times, Wednesday, Feb 11, 1953
APPEAL FOR NEWS OF TRAWLER
The Ministry of Agriculture and Fisheries appealed yesterday for information about the missing Grimsby trawler Sheldon which, with 14 men on board, left Kirkwall, Orkney, on January 30. Mr Frank Robinson, the managing director of the owners, said last night that the trips often occupied 19 or 20 days and the ship would not be overdue if she did not return until the weekend, or even on Monday. But as they had not heard from the skipper by radio as usual they were naturally a little anxious in view of the bad weather.


----------



## Steve Farrow

Hi Hilary,
Your photo was taken from the Dock Tower, looking at the Royal Dock and towards Grimsby Town centre. The Humber is to the back of the cameraman.


----------



## Steve Farrow

jcullen said:


> Hi
> Iam also looking for info on the sheldon, as my grandad was lost on her.
> john


Hi John,
If you send me an email, I will attach what information I have about the SHELDON ( Quite lengthy )
Steve [email protected]


----------



## GeoffOlsen

*OT. Olsens from Grimsby*

Hi all,

My great great grandfather was O.T Olsen - "Compass adjuster, Nautical Instrument Maker, Flag Manufacturer, Chart & Nautical Bookseller and Publisher of the Olsen's Fisherman's Nautical Almanac""...as he described himself in the coverleaf of his book, "The Fisherman's Practical Navigator" in 1878. 

His business was based in Cleethorpe Road Grimsby and one of his passions (amongst many others!) was fishing Smacks. (Originally sailing vessels, usually sloop or ketch-rigged, used primarily in British coastal waters - as I expect you well know).

I have a copy of "The Fisherman's Practical Navigator" and it lists 12 pages, each page with approximately 45 boats "Registered at the port of Grimsby" showing Name, Tonnage, Fishing Capacity, When Built, and the Owners Name and where it was Built.

I would be most happy to share any information with you of any interest, in any way you desire.

Regards,
Geoff Olsen Melbourne, Australia (Thumb)


----------



## Steve Farrow

Hi Geoff,
That is a very generous offer indeed. I would certainly like a copy of the pages you have.
I used to own an octant made by Olsen's here in Grimsby, made of ebony! Worth a few pounds now I should imagine. My last purchase from them was a set of parallel rules ( brass roller type ) in 1970. Bob Parson's was one of the compass adjusters at that time and a real character!
Regards
Steve


----------



## mattarosa

GeoffOlsen said:


> Hi all,
> 
> My great great grandfather was O.T Olsen
> 
> 
> Hello Geoff
> 
> You are very lucky to have such an illustrious ancestor.
> 
> I agree with Steve, this is a fantastically generous offer. I would dearly love to see a copy of these historic pages.
> 
> I now feel completely disgruntled about my Grimsby ancestors who, despite my interest in the sea, refused to have anything to do with it, and instead became plumbers, shoemakers, vets and the like
> 
> Hilary


----------



## jcullen

*re sheldon*



mattarosa said:


> Hi J
> I posted a small item from the Times about the Sheldon in connection with our discussion about the Sargon, but there were a couple more. Here they are in case they are of interest.
> 
> The Times, Wednesday, Jan 28, 1925
> The trawler Sheldon, of Grimsby, has been seized off the coast of Finmark of a charge of fishing in Norwegian territorial waters, and has been taken into Vardo.
> 
> The Times, Saturday, Aug 02, 1952
> GRIMSBY TRAWLER ARRESTED
> Torshavn, Faroe Islands, August 1 – The 278-ton Grimsby trawler Sheldon was arrested for alleged illegal fishing today and taken to Torshavn.
> 
> The Times, Thursday, Feb 19, 1953
> HOPE ABANDONED FOR MISSING TRAWLER
> Grimsby, Feb 18
> The owners of the Grimsby trawler Sheldon, of which nothing has been heard since January 30, stated today that there can now be no further hope for the safety of the vessel and her crew of 14. From reports received from other trawlers it is presumed that the Sheldon was caught in a sudden gale on January 31 and sank.
> 
> The Times, Wednesday, Feb 25, 1953
> A lifebuoy belonging to the Grimsby trawler Sheldon, missing since leaving Orkney on January 30, has been picked up at Burra, Shetland.
> 
> 
> I assume your grandad was on board in January 1953?
> 
> Hilary


Thanks for your info,
Yes my grandad was on board he was Bernard Cullen


----------



## shawn

Hello. First post on the site.

Been trying to some research into an oil painting my parents have. It is a steam trawler that is connected to my great-grandfather Ernest Rhodes. The ship has a "*Federal*" flag and has the number *GY1054*. I've done a search through the internet and the only thing I can find is this page, but it doesn't mention Federal at all. The painting is near identical to this, apart from it being in colour and a couple of flags added. Is Federal the name or has this something to do with its role and the name will probably be Majestic? (Sorry for being thick: I know nothing about trawlers...bit sad really as it is part of my history)

http://float-trawlers.lancashire.gov.uk/index.php?a=wordsearch&s=item&key=Wczo2OiJneTEwNTQiOw==&pg=1

Been on Steve Farrow's site (got strange return email via your "fill the form" link btw) and also a couple of other sites listed on this thread but can find no info.

Thanks in advance
Saw the link for this site on an old metro today btw. (Thumb)


----------



## shawn

I've taken a pic with my phone so you can see the oil painting we have, below with the Majestic photo from the link above.


----------



## shawn

No mention of the GY number tho...
http://www.mikes-place.connectfree.co.uk/fwdgal5/fd144majestic.html


----------



## Steve Farrow

Hi Shawn,
The FEDERAL was owned by the Pelham Steam Fishing Company, Grimsby. She was built in 1898 and registered in January 1899, by Cochcrane & Cooper's shipyard in Beverley, Yorks. In 1905 she was sold to a Cardiff company
She was 189 gross tons, 67 net tons, 112.6' long 21' beam 
Hope this helps a little
Steve
Was this a painting by George Race?


----------



## shawn

Hi Steve. Thanks. Slightly different info to the float-trawlers website.

Just called my mum and it is indeed by G. Race in 1899. 
The ship is actually named "Federal" in the oil painting (just in front of the GY number) hence why we thought it was called Federal. Plus has Federal on the front pennant.


----------



## Steve Farrow

*Federal*

Hi Shawn,
George Race was local to the Grimsby area and was classed as a 'Pier head painter' i.e. he would sketch the ships quickly as they approached the docks, go home and paint them and then it was a case of tracking down the crews ( particularly the skippers ) on the fish dock with the hope of selling them. Today these paintings are collectable because they were a 'snapshot' of each ship in colour..............something the camera could not do in those days
Steve


----------



## Clem

Hi Shawn, you'll find there were two ships with the Grimsby registration GY1054

Majestic o/n 98714 built 1890

Federal o/n 109017 built 1898

Are you interested in both ships or just Federal?

Regards

Clem


----------



## shawn

*Steve:*(Thumb) Thanx. Very interesting. Will do a search for him to find out some info..unless you have some bookmarked links already ?

*Clem:* Just the Federal in the colour painting. 
So they aren't the same ship then? Now I'm confused..haha. 

Right, so the Federal did exist on that number, built in 1898. How did it come to be on the same numer as the Majestic and is it coincidence they are the same type of ship? Was the Majestic sunk/scrapped before the Federal was built and the number passed onto the Federal in 1898?


----------



## mattarosa

shawn said:


> I've taken a pic with my phone so you can see the oil painting we have
> 
> Hi Shawn
> What a great picture. It really cheers me to realise that people have mementos of the Grimsby fishing industry in their front rooms (or other rooms, someone here was putting a trawler bell in his kitchen) so it won't be completely forgotten. I haven't heard of George Race (isn't Steve a mine of information?) but the picture looks so very fresh. Thanks for sharing it with us and good luck with your research.
> 
> Hilary


----------



## shawn

Thanks Hilary.
Can't seem to find too much about it tho. I think it will be one of those things that is written down in a book somewhere in the history of Grimsby Trawlers and not on the internet. Can't find much about George Race on the net neither.


----------



## Steve Farrow

Hi Shawn
If you contact John Wilson at the Archive section in the Town Hall Grimsby, He should be able to give you more information about George Race.
John Wilson, on 01472 323581, or Email [email protected]
Good luck
Steve


----------



## shawn

Thanks Steve (Thumb)


----------



## Steve Farrow

*Hazeldene*

I posted a photo of what I thought was the trawler HAZELDENE in the Gallery, but this may be the St Cloud. Here is another view of her although this picture is a poor image. It also has Hazeldene wrtten on the back. Anybody any ideas as to the location?


----------



## mkeeble

Hello Clem,
I was a deckhand on Grimsby Trawlers in the 1960's and I recall many of the vessels you refer to on this page.
Do you want some stories?

Michael Keeble


----------



## Clem

That would be great Michael, feel free to post here, I'm sure everyone will be pleased to hear what you have to say.

I look forward to your posts and, welcome to Ships Nostalgia.

Clem


----------



## shawn

Clem said:


> Are you interested in both ships or just Federal?





shawn said:


> Just the Federal in the colour painting.


Did you have any info for me clem ??


----------



## Clem

Sorry Shawn, I have nothing further to add to what Steve already posted about GY1054 Federal, if I do ever come across anything I'll post it here for you.

Clem


----------



## shawn

aah..ok. Cheers.
Have spoken to John Wilson and he's put me in touch with the museums manager. 
Will post up if I hear anything new.


----------



## GeoffOlsen

*The Fisherman's Practical Navigator (pub. 1878) inc. Grimsby ships*

Hi all,

I have worked out how to post a message and an attachment to this site (easy of course), and I've tried to upload even one page from the following book to enable anyone interested to know the type of info in this book. However, even x1 page I have scanned from this book is above the 19.2k limit for the forum - and fair enough I guess. 

So here are a few more details and if your're after this type of data - please let me know and I'd be more than happy to send this info on (via e-mail if required). The book is "The Fisherman's Practical Navigator" published in 1878 by OT. Olsen and show the cover, TOC, and all pages relating to ships registered at Grimsby at the time of publication in 1878. (a total of ~2.2Mb incl, x11 pages).

As previosuly posted (and yes, I am so proud of this!)...OT. Olsen was my great great grandfather and described himself as "Compass adjuster, Nautical Instrument Maker, Flag Manufacturer, Chart & Nautical Bookseller and Publisher of the Olsen's Fisherman's Nautical Almanac" in the front of this book.

Contact me internally via an internal 'forum message' or e-mail.

Regards,
Geoff Olsen.
[son of John Christian Olsen]
[sone of Jack (John) Olsen]
[son of Arent Oscar Olsen]
[son of Ole Theodore Olsen (OT. Olsen)]


----------



## Roger Griffiths

*World War 1 loss.*

Hello,
Looking for a trawler sunk on 15/Aug/1917. I think it may be the ALICE GY541 but cannot confirm this.
Could anyone shed any light please.

Thanks and regards
Roger


----------



## Kerbtrawler

Roger,
its not the Alice as the Reg didn't belong to her

I will have the answer for you shortly

Are you sure of the date?

cheers


----------



## Roger Griffiths

Thanks for the speedy reply,
I have ALICE as GY541 on the list from GY archives but if it is incorrect that may explain things.
UC63 reported "GY541 sunk early on August 15, 1917 off the Humber."

regards
Roger


----------



## Kerbtrawler

Roger sorry but I have mislead you a little 

There was an Alice reported missing 14/08/1917 but her reg was not GY541
the only other grimsby vessel lost on that date was the Sophron which was mined Firth of Tay

just to confuse things 

GY 541 belonged to Dinmar which became the Silanion

What I will do is investigate a little deeper when I get home tonight for you

cheers


----------



## Roger Griffiths

Thanks for the help Trevor,
Could you tell me your source concerning the ALICE going missing on 14/August/1917.

regards
Roger


----------



## Kerbtrawler

Sure 
it comes from the Loss List of Grimsby Vessels 1800-1960 by David Boswell
"14th Aug 1917 ALICE (MFV) Missing since 14.8.1917" 

It is one of only a small number of craft that don't show up in the Charles Cox lists

I have now also checked the Index of ships registered at Grimsby 1824 - 1918 and again there is no mention of this particular Alice

This is turning into a bit of a mystery!!

We may as they say have to cast a wider net to land this one


----------



## Roger Griffiths

OK thanks Trevor,
I will take a look see next time I am at TNA in the meantime I will get on to the Grimsby Library to see if there is anything in the Telegraph.
Anything of any interest i'll make a post.

regards
Roger


----------



## GeoffOlsen

*Two Smacks registered as "Alice" in Grimsby!*

[Exciting thread guys+gals!]

I read this thread and thought you may be interested in this info. to assist with further research.

This text is taken straight from "The Fisherman's Practical Navigator" published in 1878, by OT. Olsen - in the chapter "List of Smacks Registered at the Port Of Grimsby" (amongst 9 other ports). 

I am writing because interstingly, there are two(2) entries for ships named "Alice"!

Listing #1:
No. 83
Name. Alice 
Tonnage. 42
Fishing Capacity. Trawl
When Built. 1862
Owners Name & Address. J. Ward, do (ie.Grimsby)

Listing #2
No. 255
Name. Alice 
Tonnage. 18
Fishing Capacity. Whelk
When Built. 1869
Owners Name & Address. L. Smith, do (ie.Grimsby)

This listing is alphabetical and the page (as well as 11 others on Grimsby) is available as a scanned pdf file of ~2Mb. If anyone wants a copy of this just e-mail me directly to this address (which I will describe here rather than write in full so I don't get spammed!) it is: geoffolsen[AT]bizcraft[DOT]com[DOT]au

Regards,
Geoff [son of John Christian Olsen > son of John (Jack) Olsen > son of Arent Oscar Olsen> son of Ole Theodore Olsen (OT. Olsen)]


----------



## Roger Griffiths

Hello Geoff,
Thank you for your input and kind offer.
UC 63 described GY 541 as a "Motorfischer" -- motor fishing vessel. The location of the sinking is given as 53°38'N, 0°55'E and happened early on August 15th.
Given that David Boswell describes ALICE as an MFV and most of the fishing vessels around at this time would have been steam powered, I am convinced that ALICE was the vessel who was attacked in this incident. I just need a few facts to substantiate this theory.

regards
Roger


----------



## Clem

Hi Hilary, here's the next ship on your list:

Official Number: 160836 
Port of Registry: Grimsby
Number: GY375
Name: Equerry
Callsign: GTWD
Type: Steam Trawler	
Built: 06/29
By: Cook Welton & Gemmell Ltd. Beverly
Gross Tonnage: 360
Net Tonnage: 149
Length: 140.2 ft.
Beam: 24.6 ft.
Draught: 13.2 ft.
(Note: Measurements are in Feet and Tenths of Feet)
Engines: T. 3cy. 96 RHP
By: C.D. Holmes & Co. Ltd. Hull
Owner: Loyal Steam Fishing Co. Ltd. 
Manager: W.W. Butt
Comments: Built as H50 Lady Eleanor for Jutland Amalgamated Trawlers (Hull); 03/37 sold to GY registered as GY375; 06/37 renamed Equerry; Admiralty Service; Hired as M/S 08/39-04/45; Pennant No. FY668

Fate: Scrapped 08/58


Note: Some time after being sold to Grimsby GY375 Equerry had a new bow added; this should explain the differing measurement and tonnage quoted in various sources.

There’s a photo of Equerry in ‘Grimsby Trawlers’ ISBN 1872167314

Also same photo here: http://www.mikes-place.connectfree.co.uk/grimsbygal2/equerry.html

Regards

Clem


----------



## Kerbtrawler

Hi Roger,
Following on the Alice Gertrude she was GY 925 and had been sold onto Spanish owners.
The vessel was on its way to Spain at the time of the attack. 
I will have the actual details over the weekend which are coming from the Grimsby archives.

Cheers


----------



## Roger Griffiths

Hello Trevor,
Thank you for your continued interest. I look forward to the info from Grimsby archives.
Another vessel sunk by UC63
FRANCES GY903, 20 grt, sunk 28/June/1917 10 miles NE Spurn Point. She seem very small to me. Was she a liner or what? any details appreciated.

regards
Roger


----------



## Kerbtrawler

Hi Roger 
the FRANCES
GY 903
Built 1887
20 Gt 9 Nt
Off No 119627
56 x 11 x 5.5
went to Crampins 1913
A Bannister 1915
Reported lost 1917 28th June
She was a snibby

Hope this helps

cheers


----------



## Roger Griffiths

Thanks again Trevor,
I have her as ON 93135 built 1888 on GY reg 18/Aug/1913 ex H1018

regards
Roger


----------



## mattarosa

*Equerry*



Clem said:


> Hi Hilary, here's the next ship on your list:
> 
> Thanks, Clem. You are a star. I've been really busy settling into my new house so haven't been around much. I'll be back soon.
> 
> Hilary


----------



## Roger Griffiths

*Alice*



Kerbtrawler said:


> Sure
> it comes from the Loss List of Grimsby Vessels 1800-1960 by David Boswell
> "14th Aug 1917 ALICE (MFV) Missing since 14.8.1917"
> 
> It is one of only a small number of craft that don't show up in the Charles Cox lists
> 
> I have now also checked the Index of ships registered at Grimsby 1824 - 1918 and again there is no mention of this particular Alice
> 
> This is turning into a bit of a mystery!!
> 
> We may as they say have to cast a wider net to land this one


Hello Trevor,
I have done a little more digging. The port number for ALICE was in fact GY541
It is contained in the returns of Grimsby fishing vessels 1914-1918 and confirmed by John Wilson at NE Lincs archives from her registry. Bad news is she had No official number so I cannot trace her logbooks.
Given what facts are avalable. I think it is "Highly Probable" that ALICE was sunk by UC63.
I have added John Wilsons reply for your records.
regards
Roger


Dear Roger,
Thank you for your enquiry. According to the register of sea fishing boats here (ref. 365/4/2, p.271) the "Alice" GY541 was "missing since 14 August '17". The register does not give any Official Number. The "Alice" was built at Whitby in 1903, and was registered at Grimsby on 12 July 1915, by the East Anglian Steam Fishing Company Ltd at Grimsby Fish Docks. (No evidence of any Admiralty Service ever appears in these registers). A note appears to add that she was "formerly SH 282" (?=Scarborough)


----------



## Kerbtrawler

That's excellant news Roger,

But I'm a little confused as when I had the Library check the records they couldn't find anything.

But at least it now fits with your information.

I will update my records accordingly

cheers


----------



## shawn

Just an update about George Race and The Federal Gy 1504:

John Wilson at NE Lincs Archives had no phots, but had a listing in the Register of Ships. No crews or voyages mentioned.
He then passed it to the museums manager at the Heritage Centre. She said they have no objects relating to The Federal but passed on the information to the Central Library. They do not hold any copies of paintings or photos, but did have some references from the Evening Telegraph 1970: a readers letter from Norwich after information about George Race, which had two replies in further editions.

I received the photocopied clippings today from the Library about George. They are dated almost 40 years ago now..so any family location information will probably not be correct anymore. But at least there's some new info on him. (Thumb)


----------



## Clem

Good luck in your searches Shawn.


----------



## Koromo

*Grimsby Smack Owner up from Barking*

Greetings all

My partner's gr-gr-gr-grandfather was John Forge, a sailmaker and smack owner born 1808 in Barking, Essex. He is gazetted as a bankrupt in _The Times_ newspaper in 1858, at which point he moved up to Grimsby, perhaps as a result of the Grimsby Dock/Railway Company's encouragement at the time. 

From snippets of information found on the web, his boat was named _Brilliant,_ and one apprentice on board was taken from the Marylebone Poorhouse, a 14-yr-old named Charles Cuerton (who by 1881 is working for the railways in Grimsby).

In 1861, John Forge is described as a smack owner and inn keeper in Grimsby. By 1871, he a licensed victualler only with no mention of an interest in fishing boats. He and his wife ran the 'Navigation Inn' at 12 Cleethorpes Road, Grimsby. John Forge died in 1880, his wife Ann Forge is still described as being at the Navigation Inn in a 1919 trade directory at the grand age of 100, although she had in fact been dead for 2 years by then!

I would be most interested to hear if by chance there is any corroborative evidence of the above, eg. was there a _Brilliant_ fishing smack in the Grimsby fishing fleet; is John Forge's name listed anywhere as a smack owner?

_Note:_ there is a Thomas R Forge, another smack owner and chandler, who also moved from Barking to Grimsby but I have not found any family connection to him yet.

Very many thanks
Koromo


----------



## Steve Farrow

I am trying to find out what happened to the stern trawler ATLANTIC DOLPHIN LO. 123. She was built by Doig's Ship builders in Grimsby about 1960/61 for Storgram Trawlers Ltd but managed by Alfred Bannister & Son GY. She worked out of the port for a few years but I would appreciate any information as to who she was sold to and where.
Regards
Steve


----------



## treeve

I have just written up a web page for the HMT Royalo (Grimsby GY941);
she was blown up in Mount's Bay 1940.
Please can anyone help with a photograph or one of a sister vessel?
I have listed the six men who died on her.

Best Wishes, Raymond


----------



## janathull

Hi Clem,
I sailed out of Grimsby for a while on the small trawler Samantha with Pete Tinnisen in charge, good money. Regards janathull


----------



## Steve Farrow

Raymond,
If you send me an email I will reply with photo's of several of her identical sister-ships.
Regards
Steve www.trawlerart.com


----------



## treeve

Steve, you're a star!


----------



## treeve

*Sleight of Grimsby*

A heap of questions ....

Please can anyone tell me what was the final fate of
GY65 ROLANDO
GY320 ROXANO
GY360 RIALTO
GY647 ROLLO
GY654 REFORMO
GY1146 RINTO
GY1199 RINALDO
GY1206 REMO
GY1208 RODRIGO

Were any of the following Sleight vessels?
What was the date of build and final fate?
GY13 REMILLO
GY13 REVERTO
GY16 RECTO
GY48 RUBICO
GY80 RAPALLO
GY84 RUBATO
GY104 REVERTO
GY235 REVIGO
GY252 REMINDO
GY296 REVIGO
GY368 REGGIO
GY400 RAPIO
GY464 ROMEO
GY616 RIO
GY668 RECOLO 
GY731 REBONO
GY735 ROMEO
GY796 RHENO
????? REMARGO
I have identified 57 Sleight vessels other than these 19.

Was the reg of RECEPTO, Built 1914; Mined 1917, GY254 or GY245? 

Best Wishes, Raymond


----------



## Papa Bear

Hi Clem. Not a fisherman but have dealt with in the transportation mode for many years. Was brought up in the Orkney Islands and now live on Vancouver Island so have been around fish and fishing boats all my life. An excellent reference work on the Grimsby Trawler is a book by Paul King and Steve Pulfrey. 
" The Final Years of the Side Trawler ". The book was published by Hutton Press 1991. It is an excellent read, much history, fleet lists and many many pictures.
Hope this is of some use.


----------



## Clem

Cheers Papa Bear, I've got a copy of the book you mentioned in my collection, yes it is a great read with some nice photos too.

Hi Raymond, maybe Kerbtrawler can help you with your interest in Sleights ships. I know he too has an interest in the companys fleet. 

I'm struggling to find time for things trawlers right now, although I look in here most days.

All the best folks

Clem


----------



## Tommy Kirkpatrick

On the Fleetwood online archive of trawlers site it has GY654 Reformo as being scrapped in 1960.My grandfather was mate on her when she was stationed in Orkney during the war.


----------



## treeve

Thanks for that ... I never thought to look at FD for info on GY.
I became interested in the vessels because of the two I knew of that
were sunk off Cornwall, one here in the Bay and one off Falmouth.
As there did not appear to be a list of their vessels, I thought I would
assemble one, and add whatever information that could be found.
One of a number of ongoing projects to keep my mind active!!


----------



## treeve

I gather Sleights had the biggest steam trawler fleet in the world in 1880.


----------



## treeve

*Sleight vessels 1893 onwards*

B Built; Bu Broken Up; M Mined; W Wrecked; T Torpedoed;
R Returned to owners – Fate unknown
SC Sunk in Collision; SA Sunk by Aircraft; LN Last Known;
F Foundered

GY22 ROTO – B1904/BU1952
GY23 RENOVO – B1904/SC1940
GY65 ROLANDO – B1896/R1919
GY181 RIANO – B1906/BU1960
GY185 RIGOLETTO – B1906/BU1956
GY228 REMARKO – B1914/M1916
GY229 RELONZO – B1914/M1941
GY253 RETAKO – B1914/BU1962
GY254(245?) RECEPTO - B1914/M1917
GY264 RETURNO – B1914/BU1962
GY265 RESTRIVO – B1914/BU1962
GY298 REPERIO – B1907/BU1962
GY320 ROXANO – B1907/R1945
GY360 RIALTO – B1897/R1919
GY373 REVELLO – B1908/F1959
GY380 REPORTO – B1908/BU1956
GY399 ROLULO – B1909/W1915
GY507 RECORDO – B1910/BU1955
GY508 RESONO – B1910/M1915
GY510 REPRO – B1910/M1917
GY512 RENCO – B1910/BU1956
GY528 RONDO – B1893/W1915
GY605 RONSO – B1915/BU1962
GY623 REGARDO – B1915/BU1962
GY625 RECONO – B1915/BU1962
GY647 ROLLO – B1899/R1919
GY654 REFORMO – B1899/S1938/R1946
GY663 RALCO - B1911/BU1955
GY666 RESPONSO – B1911/W1915
GY670 RELEVO – B1912/W1916
GY721 REMEXO – B1912/BU1959
GY826 RENZO – B1913/BU1955
GY829 REHEARO – B1917/BU1961
GY836 RODINO – B1913/SA1940
GY839 RODOSTO – B1913/BU1956
GY843 REMAGIO – B1913/BU1956
GY852 REMILLO – B1919/M1941
GY868 RENARRO – B1913/M1918
GY870 RIPARVO – B1913/SC1918
GY914 RISKATO – B1916/BU1956
GY926 RESPARKO – B1916/SA1940 Falmouth (Penryn)
GY941 ROYALO – B1916/M1940 Mount’s Bay
GY942 RESOLVO – B1913/BU1941
GY946 RISTANGO – B1913/F1940
GY952 RETRUDO – B1914/BU1956
GY1019 RESPONDO – B1905/LN1938
GY1029 RESMILLO – B1917/SA1941
GY1063 REFUNDO – B1917/M1940
GY1089 REMINDO – B1917/T1918
GY1103 RESERCHO – B1917/M1939
GY1146 RINTO – B1900/R1919
GY1199 RINALDO – B1900/R1920
GY1206 REMO – B1900/R1920
GY1208 RODRIGO – B1900/R1919
GY1232 ROSCO – B1902/BU1951
GY1233 ROSARENO – B1902/W1940
GY1267 RIGHTO – B1920/BU1962
GY1268 REBOUNDO – B1920/BU1962

Obviously, the way to do this properly would be to 
see the Grimsby Shipping / Fishing Vessel Registers.

Best Wishes, Raymond


----------



## Steve Farrow

treeve said:


> A heap of questions ....
> 
> Please can anyone tell me what was the final fate of
> GY65 ROLANDO
> GY320 ROXANO
> GY360 RIALTO
> GY647 ROLLO
> GY654 REFORMO
> GY1146 RINTO
> GY1199 RINALDO
> GY1206 REMO
> GY1208 RODRIGO
> 
> Were any of the following Sleight vessels?
> What was the date of build and final fate?
> GY13 REMILLO
> GY13 REVERTO
> GY16 RECTO
> GY48 RUBICO
> GY80 RAPALLO
> GY84 RUBATO
> GY104 REVERTO
> GY235 REVIGO
> GY252 REMINDO
> GY296 REVIGO
> GY368 REGGIO
> GY400 RAPIO
> GY464 ROMEO
> GY616 RIO
> GY668 RECOLO
> GY731 REBONO
> GY735 ROMEO
> GY796 RHENO
> ????? REMARGO
> I have identified 57 Sleight vessels other than these 19.
> 
> Was the reg of RECEPTO, Built 1914; Mined 1917, GY254 or GY245?
> 
> Best Wishes, Raymond


Ray
I have emailed the information to you which should answer your questions. The Recepto was GY254. Sleights had another trawler....the Siluria, built in 1907 and came from Milford Haven in 1915 GY801. She was renamed the Rivigo in March 1952 and scrapped in December 1955.
REGARDS
Steve


----------



## treeve

I have a good picture of the Thomas Tiompkin which was also connected with Sleights/Baker, I believe. Many thanks for your kind help, Steve.


----------



## treeve

Is there any connection between Ernest Sleight Trawler owner 
and Sir George F Sleight (G F Sleight & Son), the company I am researching?


----------



## treeve

*Atlantic Dolphin LO123 / La Coquille A678*



Steve Farrow said:


> I am trying to find out what happened to the stern trawler ATLANTIC DOLPHIN LO. 123.


I looked at FLOAT, and then followed the lead ... found two references,
both in French .. 

Les autres bâtiments hydrographes affectés au CEP furent La Pérouse A 750 (ex-Sans Peur), achetée en 1962 et transformée en bâtiment de 2ème classe et La Coquille A 678 (ex-Atlantic Dolphin). ancien chalutier anglais de 447 tonnes, transformé en 1965 en bâtiment hydrographique de 2ème classe pour effectuer la surveillance radiologique et l'étude biologique de la faune sous-marine. 
http://www.netmarine.net/g/dossiers/mururoa/index.htm

Coquille 1966-1974 (12-12-2004) - Soumis par Amhydro - Dernière mise à jour : (19-02-2005)

COQUILLE 
1966 - 1974
Ex chalutier anglais (baptisé Atlantic Dolphin), il est acheté début 1965.De mai 1965 à mi-1966, il est transformé à l'****nal de Cherbourg et est réarmé le 15/10/66.La Coquille est alors affectée au C.E.P. et est utilisée pour la surveillance radiologique et l'étude biologique de la faune sous-marine dans le Pacifique.Elle est condamnée le 04/02/74 et est vendue au civil en mars 1975.
Dimensions : 38 x 8 x 4.3 m Tonnage : 475 tW (555 pc) Effectif : 23 hommes Vitesse : 11.5 noeuds Effectif : 2 off. + 21 h.

Looks like she was scrapped after 1975, but maybe not.
Best Wishes, Raymond


----------



## treeve

Re : La Coquille
Looks like two others have an interest in her ...
http://www.netmarine.net/g/annonces/indexinfos2005.htm


----------



## treeve

*Sleights*



treeve said:


> Is there any connection between Ernest Sleight Trawler owner
> and Sir George F Sleight (G F Sleight & Son), the company I am researching?


Forget that question, I have found out the relationship.
However there is not much to be found on the history of the family.
Best wishes, Raymond


----------



## treeve

*Coronatia GY1224 ex SN337*

As I have been searching CWGC for casualties of another vessel,
I came across deaths on the CORONATIA, 12th December 1916.
Yet she was returned to her owners, and then in 1939-1946 she
was requisitioned again and returned to Grimsby owners.
Can anyone help with the incident in 1916?


----------



## mickandfra

Hi Clem,

Mike Kiely here in W Coast Ireland,a new member.

If its of any interest to you,I worked on board a brilliant vessel called WHITEBANK. She came to Carrigaholt,West Clare,a little fishing port on the West of the mighty Shannon Estuary.She came around 1988 or thereabouts if you wish I could get more definite info as I still keep in contact with the people who brought her here.She went to work immediately on her arrival as she came from Grimsby but she underwent major refit to wheelhouse/accomodation galley etc around mid 90s.I can send you photograph if I can find one of her.She was sold 2 years ago to become a pleasure cruiser. Fabulous boat with a brilliant history while in Ireland,put plenty a bob in lots of lads pockets!!

Thanks Clem,

Mike Kiely


----------



## treeve

Just uploaded a potted history of George F Sleight and Ernest Sleight
at http://freepages.family.rootsweb.com/~treevecwll/sleights.htm
Comments, additions and corrections would be welcome.
I am working on the pages for the vessels, separately.
Best Wishes, Raymond


----------



## treeve

*Marlborough, Europe*

The Times - 8th Jan 1910
Grimsby Trawler sunk
The Grimsby trawler MARLBOROUGH brought into Grimsby last night seven survivors, out of a total crew of nine, of the Grimsby trawler EUROPE, which sank early yesterday morning while fishing 30 miles from Spurn Head, after being run into by a steamer.
The trawler was struck with great force and, heeling right over, began to sink rapidly. Eight of the crew jumped into the sea, but the ninth man managed to break the fastenings of a small boat and to scramble into her. He was thus able to go to the assistance of the men swimming in the sea and six were picked up. Two others, Garrett (the mate) and Jenkinson (the chief engineer), who had been carried by the tide a considerable distance away, were drowned before the boat could reach them. A little later the Marlborough sighted the boat and its occupants and picked them up. they were all in an exhausted condition.


----------



## treeve

*Silverdale, Straton*

The Times - 8th February 1911
The Loss Of A Grimsby Trawler
The inquiry was resumed at Grimsby yesterday into the loss of the skipper and four of the crew of the Grimsby trawler SILVERDALE after collision with the Grimsby trawler STRATON off Newsand Lightship on Saturday.
The skipper of the Straton, Daniel Jacob Joensen, was called to answer an allegation of the Silverdale's mate that the Straton had not rendered all possible assistance in saving life. The Straton's skipper said that when he saw the Silverdale coming ahead he reversed his own engines, but collision was unavoidable. The Silverdale sank in two minutes, but the witness threw lifebelts overb, exhibited flares, and did all he could to pick up any men. He rescued the steward and cruised about the vicinity until daylight.
Samuel Peters, a deck hand, said he saw the Silverdale's bows sticking above the water, but he did not tell his skipper. Neither did he hear the shouts of the chief engineer and the other man who were said to have been there. It did not occur to him to tell his skipper that part of the ship was still out of the water. The Straton cruised about looking for any men in the water.
The Court found that the skipper and four men of the Silverdale had been drowned as the result of their vessel's coming into collision with the Straton, and that the skipper and the crew of the latter did everything possible to rescue lives.


----------



## treeve

*City Of Lincoln*

The Times - 3rd October 1905
The Loss Of A Grimsby Trawler
Details are now forthcoming of the cir***stances attending the wreck of the steam trawler CITY OF LINCOLN. The City of Lincoln left Grimsby on Wednesday, September 20, for the Faroe fishing bank, and left there for home on Friday morning at 9 am with a good catch of fish. The skipper and the mate were on the watch up to 3 am on Saturday morning. They saw a light then bearing south, which they reckoned was Skule Kerry. the second mate then took the watch, and the captain left the course to steer SE by S. About three quarters of an hour later the vessel struck. The whistle was sounded, and several of the islanders gathered on the shore. Owing to the high sea and exposed position of the vessel, as well as the darkness, very little could be done to effect a rescue. No boats could be put off the shore, and the trawler's own boat was already smashed. The only chance now was to get a line to the vessel. The men in the ship and the people on the shore seemed to consider everything that was possible to make a connexion. The islanders tried to shoot balls on board, with samll lines attached, also to fly a kite. All was to no purpose. About 7 am the chief engineer jumped overboard, and witht he aid of a lifebelt he got ashore. When picked up by the islanders he was exhausted. About 8 am two men were washed from the forecastle. The captain, H Harris, attempted now to swim ashore. He did well until almost within the grasp of the islanders. A large wave came and dashed hima away to some wreckage, and he seemed to be killed. His body has since been recovered. His head was much cut. Shortly after 8 am the mate, W Hutcheson, fell out of the rigging. He got very near to the shore, and then disappeared. the men were now very much exhausted and cold, and about 1 pm J Dyce, deck hand, also fell out of the rigging and was drowned. 
About this time one of the crew had got a ball of net twine and an iron shackle. Keeping the end, he threw the ball towards the shore. the bight of the line blew far enough ashore to be intercepted by another line from the shore. This now enabled the men to pull off a small fishing line with a stout line attached. Having secured this they now rigged a very fair life saving apparatus, and within half an hour the remaining six were all landed safely. The men are being well cared for on the island, and are being given clothes. They hope to go on board the vessel perhaps at low tide, if the weather will permit. The vessel is now about two lengths from the shore with a list to port, and at high water the hull is submerged. the funnel is gone and one mast is standing. the cargo of fish is scattered all about the beach. The vessel is ashore in newbigging bay, Papa westray, which is a very exposed place.
The following are the list of saved :-
Andreas Agg Millin, engineer
Charles Wege, second engineer
W Carnell, deck hand
J C Bray, trimmer
T Ringwood, second mate
Otto N Olsen, deck hand
T Kare, splitter
Drowned :-
Harvey Harris, master - married and family
J Dyce, deck hand - single
D Peter Hagard, deck hand, Faroe
steward - name unknown
Messrs Hagerup, Doughty & Co the owners of the City of Lincoln, have sent a special steamer to the Orkneys to bring home the bodies of the five men drowned.


This has to be one of the most horrifying stories I have transcribed.
I think we should all consider these deaths and the struggles that 
go on today, when we look at a slab filled with fish at the market.


----------



## treeve

*Tunisian, Castor, Velocity, Cardiff, Mercury, Vulture*

The Times - 11th June 1915
More Grimsby Losses
Trawler Skipper's Escape From Submarine
Four more Grimsby trawlers, the TUNISIAN, the CASTOR, the VELOCITY and the CARDIFF were yesterady reported sunk in the North Sea by a German submarine - all on Wednesday. A fifth vessel, the MERCURY, escaped after an exciting chase.
the Tunisian, Castor, Velocity and Mercury were all fishing in the same locality on Wednesday morning when the submarine appeared and fired a shot over the group. The German commander then signalled that the crews would be given five minutes in which to take to the boats. as soon as the crew of the Tunisian had got clear of their ship the Germans sent some men on board with explosives. Skipper Mercer of the Mercury, saw his chance of escape. he ordered his men to chop away the gear and giving his vessel full steam dashed away at top speed. The Germans blew up the Tunisian and th eother vessels, and then started in pursuit of the Mercury, but as she had a good start and was doing 10 knots she got away.
All the crews were ultimately picked up and landed.
The crew of the Cardiff were brought to Grimsby last night by the steam trawler VULTURE. The skipper [of the Cardiff] states that at 3.30 on Wednesday morning when he sighted a submarine there were three other vessels trawling to westward and one away east of him, and with some idea of affording them a chance of escape he set off at full speed to lure the submarine away from the others. The German commander opened fire, and the fourth shot sank the Cardiff.


I am filled with awe and respect for these brave men, 
such bravery and friendship towards their fellows.


----------



## Hornelen

mattarosa said:


> Clem said:
> 
> 
> 
> GY280	Mildenhall
> 
> My last post of the evening. Two more references to Mildenhall.
> 
> Mildenhall
> 
> A stray mention in 1939 in connection with the loss of the Hull trawler St Sebastian:
> 
> The Times, Thursday, Mar 23, 1939; pg. 4
> 
> INQUIRY INTO LOSS OF TRAWLER
> VAIN ATTEMPTS AT RESCUE
> HULL, March 22
> 
> A Board of Trade inquiry was opened at Hull Law Courts yesterday into the stranding and total loss, with a crew of 16 men, of the Hull steam trawler St Sebastian on September 29 last on the coast of Bear Island in the Arctic Circle. The Wreck Commissioner, Mr J. G. Trapnell, K.C., was assisted by three nautical assessors.
> Mr E.M. P****y, for the Board of Trade, said that the vessel was homeward bound from the Bear Island fishing grounds when the accident occurred. He read out a series of wireless messages sent out by the St Sebastian when she struck the rocks, which were picked up by a number of vessels. The last of the messages was received in the early hours of the morning from the wireless operator of the St Sebastian in which he said that the chart-room was filling with water.
> Evidence was given by Skipper James Myers, of the steam trawler Cape Duner, who said that he and five other trawlers attempted to get near the wreck, but the seas were so heavy that he found it impossible. The witness with five of his crew attempted to land on the island from the leeward in the hope of rescuing any men who had got ashore, but they failed to reach the shore and the trawler Kingston Cairngorm picked up their boat and saved them. Eventually a party of 10 from his vessel and the trawler Davy landed at another point. They found the wrecked trawler being pounded by heavy seas, but could see no sign of life.
> Skipper R. H. Broomhead, of the Grimsby trawler Mildenhall, gave evidence that he reached the scene the following day and while watching the ship for any signs of life saw her break in two.
> 
> Nice to fined a bit about my Grand father we have a paper cutiing from the Hull daily mail and the cup shown in the picture. I am now trying to marry things up. Has anyone got any more info on the Vessel or anyone who new my Grand father.
> 
> Thanks
Click to expand...


----------



## gerbil1

*Can you help*

Hi I have bought a danish built boat from your area and was wondering if you had head of it when it was fishing the boats name was Orlik now the White Horse
Kind Regards
Kevin


----------



## sirrom

I have a photo of whitebank i took when attending grimsby tec fisheries course,lying on the wall near the repair yards..spent more time on the wall than the classroom...


----------



## willie_howe

*lowestoft trawler guava*

any information on this trawler i believe my grandfather was on her when she was lost


----------



## Roger Griffiths

Hello,
I am 99% sure on this one.
This trawler was built at Lowestoft in 1935 as BRITISH COLUMBIA official number 162901 for Grimsby Motor trawlers GY153. Sold to the Admiralty 1939.
Sold 1948 to Claridge Trawlers of Lowestoft. Lost with all 11 hands 31/Jan/1953 probably by capsizing in a great storm.
For futher details there is a file in the National archives
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/...19397&CATLN=6&Highlight=,GUAVA&accessmethod=0
Also I should imagine Lowestoft library will have lots of local information. I have found them very helpful in the past.
[email protected]
T Reeve has a good contact in Lowestoft but i'm buggered if I have an address. No doubt if Raymond reads this he will put you right.

Roger


----------



## Steve Farrow

willie_howe said:


> any information on this trawler i believe my grandfather was on her when she was lost


Here is the British Coumbia sailing from Grimsby.....possibly the first purpose built diesel trawler along with her sister, the British Guiana.
Steve


----------



## LarsB

Hi all,
let me first introduce myself.
I am a diver living in Scotland and I am very interested in wreck diving. 
At the moment I am looking for information about the steam trawler Sophron, which sunk 22 August 1917 east of St Andrews by the German U-boat UC-41.
I think it was registered in Grimsby (GY58??).
I would really like to get more information about the ship and its history. 

Regards,
Lars


----------



## Steve Farrow

Hi Lars,
This was the second trawler to carry that name. The first was GY.58 and was lost in 1902 at Sule Skerry. The second was built by Cook, Welton & Gemmell at Beverley and registered on the 17.6.1903 as GY.1270. Her Off.No was 113244, yard No 348, 195 gross tons, 62 net tons, 113.7' loa, 21' b, 11.2'd, Engines by Amos & Smith 58hp, 10 knots, Owners ....The Standard Steam Fishing Company of Grimsby.
She was requisitioned by the Admiralty in December 1914 and converted into a mine sweeper. Admiralty No 725, Armed with 1 x 6pdr.
Regards
Steve


----------



## LarsB

Thank you very much Steve.
I hope to dive her this summer, so I try to get as much information as I can. Do you know if there are any photos around? Maybe of a similar ship.
Cheers,
Lars


----------



## Steve Farrow

*Sophron*

Hi Lars,
Here is the SCOOPER that was built in 1900 as the KASTORIA and she has the same dimensions in every way......sister-ship.
Regards
Steve


----------



## willie_howe

Roger Griffiths said:


> Hello,
> I am 99% sure on this one.
> This trawler was built at Lowestoft in 1935 as BRITISH COLUMBIA official number 162901 for Grimsby Motor trawlers GY153. Sold to the Admiralty 1939.
> Sold 1948 to Claridge Trawlers of Lowestoft. Lost with all 11 hands 31/Jan/1953 probably by capsizing in a great storm.
> For futher details there is a file in the National archives
> http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/...19397&CATLN=6&Highlight=,GUAVA&accessmethod=0
> Also I should imagine Lowestoft library will have lots of local information. I have found them very helpful in the past.
> [email protected]
> T Reeve has a good contact in Lowestoft but i'm buggered if I have an address. No doubt if Raymond reads this he will put you right.
> 
> Roger


hi roger thanks for that my father was from lowestoft came to oban during the war with the marines he was telling me about the quava before he died only getting round to what happened to her now


----------



## nicolina

The Northern Spray Had Gone Ashore While Dodging At Isafjord 

She Was Skippered By Peter Fenty Who Wqas Standing In For Regular
Skipper Roy Kurz Who Was Onshore On Holydays


----------



## nicolina

NORTHERN CROWN WAS SHIFTING GROUNDS HAD COME FROM GREENLAND AND WAS ON HER WAY TO THE SOUTH COAST OF ICELAND WHEN SHE STRUCK AND
UNDERWATER ROCK
THE RESCUE OF HER WHOLE CREW WAS THANKS TO 2 CIR***STANCES
1:HER CHIEF ENGINEER DID AN EXXELENT JOB IN THE ENGINEROOM PREVENTING TO MUCH WATER TO COME IN TO FAST.
2: THE USE OF INFLATABLE LIFERAFTS DID CERTANELY PLAY A MAJOR ROLE
IN THAT ALL HER CREW WHERE PICKED UP BY AN THE ICELANDIC COAST GUARD.

sKIPPER AT THE LOSS WAS COLIN NEWTON BROTHER OF BUNNY THE BEAST
STANDING IN FOR REGULAR SKIPPER AUGUST EBENEZERSON


----------



## nicolina

Alec Black Had Some Trawlers Registered In Faroes Under Danish Flag
This Was Because The Could Fish Inside The New Fishery Limit Line Of 3 Miles Wich Closed All The Moray Firth Area For British Trawlers
The Vessels Was:
Earl Hereford- Fezenta-celine E.t.c


----------



## nicolina

Skipper On Maiden Trip Of Port Vale Was Dennis Loveday
First Ship Of A Series Of 10 For Consolidated Fisheries Of Grimsby
All Built By The Goole Shipbuilders


----------



## nicolina

Mr.barrat Was Her Skipper


----------



## Steve Farrow

*Northern Crown*



nicolina said:


> NORTHERN CROWN WAS SHIFTING GROUNDS HAD COME FROM GREENLAND AND WAS ON HER WAY TO THE SOUTH COAST OF ICELAND WHEN SHE STRUCK AND
> UNDERWATER ROCK
> THE RESCUE OF HER WHOLE CREW WAS THANKS TO 2 CIR***STANCES
> 1:HER CHIEF ENGINEER DID AN EXXELENT JOB IN THE ENGINEROOM PREVENTING TO MUCH WATER TO COME IN TO FAST.
> 2: THE USE OF INFLATABLE LIFERAFTS DID CERTANELY PLAY A MAJOR ROLE
> IN THAT ALL HER CREW WHERE PICKED UP BY AN THE ICELANDIC COAST GUARD.
> 
> sKIPPER AT THE LOSS WAS COLIN NEWTON BROTHER OF BUNNY THE BEAST
> STANDING IN FOR REGULAR SKIPPER AUGUST EBENEZERSON


This is an article that I wrote for a local paper. I think it's worth re-telling here because of the cir***stances as you rightly say.


On October 11th 1956, the steam trawler NORTHERN CROWN was wrecked after stranding on the rocky islet of Eldey, eight miles South West of Reykjanes Point off Iceland’s West coast.
Her lifeboats were washed away and the twenty man crew had only inflatable life-rafts to carry them to safety under the watchful eyes of Skipper Colin Newton.
These new rubber dinghies proved to be very reliable and aided by the Icelandic gunboat THOR, all of the men survived the ordeal.
57 men had been saved by these rubber dinghies over a period of one year with four Humber trawlers being lost; the OSAKO, JANE JORGENSEN, and St. CELESTIN.
The NORTHERN CROWN’S SOS was picked up in Iceland at 6.45 am that morning, and the gun-boat THOR sailed immediately reaching the stricken trawler at 9.20 am. Her engine-room was completely flooded by 8 am, for during the night the weather had been really atrocious with a howling South West gale.
Skipper Colin Newton was acting as relief skipper so her regular skipper August Ebernezersson could take two trips off for a holiday.
As the THOR left the scene with the rescued fishermen the NORTHERN CROWN disappeared beneath the waves.
The following day news reached Grimsby that the trawler had sunk in 60 fathoms of water, but all the men had survived thanks to the gun-boat THOR.
The men were taken to Reykjavik and were soon on their way home.
The story of one mans heroism soon became clear, the Chief Engineer Mr. A. E. Horsley of Daunbney St. Cleethorpes, had been on watch when the ship struck the rocks. Immediately he switched off the three oil- burners as the engine-room began to fill with sea water and oil.
He said “The skipper rang down to go astern and my second engineer Mr. A. Letch managed to pull the lever over. The skipper then rang to go ahead and with a little trouble I had managed to manipulate the stop valve.”
That action almost certainly saved the trawler from hitting the rocks again.
Fireman Mr. Frank Mitchell went so far as to declare of the Chief “If it had not been for him I don’t think we would have been here now.”
He claimed that with the engine-room flooded to a depth of four feet, Mr. Horsley turned the trawler ahead after she had struck the reef. “To do that he had to lie down almost on top of the oil with one hand holding a rail and the other trying to turn the wheel. This by some miracle he managed to do. I think only one man in 1,000 would have attempted to do what our Chief Engineer did.” He told a Grimsby Evening Telegraph reporter.
Even when the men were in the life-rafts their problems weren’t over. Once over the side, the rafts began to drift alongside and very close to the crippled trawler. With a lot of wooden planking hanging down from the damaged trawler, there was a danger of it splitting and puncturing the rubber boats. The crew frantically pushed themselves away from the ship and eventually broke free of her. 
One of the life-rafts capsized and deckhands Douglas Stoneman and John Andrews of Grimsby, were trapped inside the upturned inflatable. Other men who had been thrown into the water, quickly righted the dinghy.
All of the survivors gave glowing praise for these inflatables and stated that without these they would have probably perished.
A reception in Iceland was attended by Captain Kristofersson of the THOR and her other crew members. He was presented with an inscribed silver cigarette box and the Icelandic Life Saving Association received a cheque for £300.
Also there were representatives of the Reykjavikian Skymaster aircraft which led the search, the crew of the MUNINN, which also helped in the search and other officials.
The NORTHERN CROWN was launched on March 17th 1953 at the yard of Cochranes in Selby. She was 180 feet long and had a gross tonnage of 750.
Her only sister-ship was the NORTHERN SCEPTRE.
Regards
Steve


----------



## treeve

Roger Griffiths said:


> [email protected]T Reeve has a good contact in Lowestoft but i'm buggered if I have an address. No doubt if Raymond reads this he will put you right. Roger


Hi Roger ....
I had a considerable degree of kind help, on an exchange basis from ...
Terry Lynes of the Heritage Workshop Centre

LOWESTOFT RECORD OFFICE 
Central Library, Clapham Road, Lowestoft, Suffolk, NR32 1DR 
Tel: (01502) 405357 
Fax: (01502) 405350 
Website: http://www.suffolkcc.gov.uk/sro/ 

Terry Lynes
Assistant Project Manager
Heritage Workshop Centre, 
80a High Street, Wilde's Score, Lowestoft, Suffolk, NR32 1XN
[email protected]

as well as a number of kind individuals and from councillors.

Lowestoft Records Office, in line with all Records offices, do normally charge for search and do***entation copies.

Hope that helps,
Best Wishes
Raymond


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## nicolina

The Northern Crown(Kopanes) was not a sistership to Crown and Sceptre

Had a different bridge structure among other things


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## nicolina

The Lord Baconsfield was sold to the Faroes around 1935 and re-named
Skalaberg and fished up to the 50thies.
Fishermen from the Faroes knew her as many had sailed in her when shee was fishing in Canada. 
Beeing chartered to learn Canadians to fish with trawlers
Skipper was Danish born Peter Jensen who lived in Grimsby.
They also sailed with him in Offa amd Rayan de Oer


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## birgir

Hello Nicolina.

Nice to see a Faroese here.

I am also interested in old trawlers. I would like to learn something more about the trawlers Alec Black registered in the Faroe Islands before WW1. How many were they? I think I know about the Fortuna, Earl Hereford, Earl Monmouth?, Thora, Pauline, Erling, Fortuna, Belovar? 
What difference did they make for the Faroese economy? (e.g. how were they crewed? did they create employment ashore? etc.)
Who was Christian Evensen? What had he to do with this enterprize?

Birgir Thorisson, Iceland.


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## Chase

nicolina said:


> The Northern Spray Had Gone Ashore While Dodging At Isafjord
> 
> She Was Skippered By Peter Fenty Who Wqas Standing In For Regular
> Skipper Roy Kurz Who Was Onshore On Holydays


Peter Fenty was my grandfather he died at the age of 58. He also captained a ship named the Vanessa-Ann. He then named my mother this.


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## nicolina

Vanessa Ann was Peter Fenty first command she was a North Sea trawler
owned by Consolidated Fisheries of Grimsby.
At that time he was one of the youngest skippers in Grimsby.
Later he went on skippering the distant trawlers.Among others are:
Lord Jellicoe Vindora e.t.c

He lost one vessel the Northern Spray in 1963 she went ashore in Isafjord Iceland .All the crew where saved.
As i am at sea at the moment i cant give you more names as i have records
at home and will snd you more names when i come back home.


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## nicolina

Have never seen the names of:Erling Fortuna and Belovar.
But you do not have 2 names: Fezenta Ceceline.
It did have quite an impact as local fishermen got to know how to fish with trawl as well as mending/rigging/repairing trawls.
By this they got a chance to get berths on GY trawlers as well as they where in demand when The Faroes got their own trawlers.
From that time a lot of expressions regarding trawl fishing are in English
Examples:Codline-Messenger-Bagstrops-Quarterropes e.t.c
The trawlers did saltfishing i.e.splitting+saalting the catch on some trips.
mr:Evensen was the son of an smack owner in Faroes who mowed to Hull where he worked/lived and he was as one could say:Corresponding owner


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## Chase

nicolina said:


> Vanessa Ann was Peter Fenty first command she was a North Sea trawler
> owned by Consolidated Fisheries of Grimsby.
> At that time he was one of the youngest skippers in Grimsby.
> Later he went on skippering the distant trawlers.Among others are:
> Lord Jellicoe Vindora e.t.c
> 
> He lost one vessel the Northern Spray in 1963 she went ashore in Isafjord Iceland .All the crew where saved.
> As i am at sea at the moment i cant give you more names as i have records
> at home and will snd you more names when i come back home.


I was told the story many times, and the fact he because a skipper at 21. I think thats still one of the youngest ages to get the licence to this day.


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## nicolina

Lemberg was an ex GY trawler sold/charterd to Canada in the 20thies


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## nicolina

There was an photo of him in the papers along with his protegie mrarwood
ore was it Hodson???


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## Roger Griffiths

treeve said:


> Hi Roger ....
> I had a considerable degree of kind help, on an exchange basis from ...
> Terry Lynes of the Heritage Workshop Centre
> 
> LOWESTOFT RECORD OFFICE
> Central Library, Clapham Road, Lowestoft, Suffolk, NR32 1DR
> Tel: (01502) 405357
> Fax: (01502) 405350
> Website: http://www.suffolkcc.gov.uk/sro/
> 
> Terry Lynes
> Assistant Project Manager
> Heritage Workshop Centre,
> 80a High Street, Wilde's Score, Lowestoft, Suffolk, NR32 1XN
> [email protected]
> 
> as well as a number of kind individuals and from councillors.
> 
> Lowestoft Records Office, in line with all Records offices, do normally charge for search and do***entation copies.
> 
> Hope that helps,
> Best Wishes
> Raymond


Thanks Raymond,

regards
Roger


----------



## birgir

For Nicolina;

That Erling was registered in the Faroes I have from the excellent book on Cook, Welton & Gemmel, built trawlers. If you don´t have it, I highly recommend it.

I mentioned Fortuna and Belovar, because they did go salting.

It is strange that this "school" in trawling did not lead to the emergence of a domestic trawling industry in the Faroese until the later thirties. (I regard the Royndin, Nypan, Grimur Kamban, and Magnus Heinason as failed experiments.)

What do you know about the dane Peter Jensen?

A trawler owner named Oleson in Grimsby, was he from the Faroes?

Regards,
Birgir Thorisson.


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## nicolina

Yes you are rigth I did mix the names it was Martin Olsen and not Peter Jensen
who was in Canada and who owned Offa and other trawlers.
Both where skippers in GY Peter Jensen did sail mainly for Atlas/Lettens
Beeing one of their top skipper taken ships on maiden voyages pre-war times.
Another Danish skipper sailing for Atlas was Axel Olsen i do not know if he was an relative of Martin Olsen who lived for years in Canada before mowing back to GY. I think he died there not sure.
Another Danish skipper in GY was August Waage who was an top skipper in GY
pre-war times took a couple of new ships out for Markham-Cooks.
As the Danes did start to fish for flats in Northern Norway they had good knowlegde of the grounds and some went to England to fosh with trawlers.
In Hull you had the famous skipper Trolle in Kingstons skipper at sea 70 years old he had sons who also where skippers'
And skipper Enevoldsen who let his son into the lifeboat as his trawler sank but went down with his ship. one of the Lords in Hull. Sons name Harold
His son also became an trawler skipper. there where other to such as Chris Christensen who sailed for Helliers and who bougth his own trawler Leonidas on wich he was lost overboard
There was also an skipper Rasmussen who went down in a trawler loss
No records but only my human memory. More names when i come home


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## birgir

Nicolina.

A number of icelandic skippers "made it" in Hull and Grimsby. Among them was August Waage, who obviously counted as a dane, before Iceland got independence. Similarly Faroese would have been counted as danes. Was anyone who you mentioned faroese.
Peter Jensen is, I presume, identical with "danish Peter", who was Black´s top skipper, before Hellyer lured him away. Whether danish Peter was with Lettens before WW1 is problematic, because at least in 1905, he was with Black.
Also, I have seen "Oleson and Ogmundson" mentioned as trawler owners in Grimsby, (Hekla GY 394). Since Ogmundson is not Icelandic, as the name would suggest, he must be either Faroese or Norwegian. Is Oleson a misprint for Olsen?

Birgir Thorisson


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## nicolina

I am sure that August Waage whom the people in GY referred to as Wagge was
Danish born.
There was an Icelandic skipper in GY August Ebenezerson
Are you thinking about him???
Some Faroese used to sail with him both pre and post war.
He had relatives in GY who also where skippers Bjarni and Sverri Ebenezerson.
Peter Jensen had a good spot for fishing flats named after him.
Peturs Hol nearby Vestman Island.
He was with Helliers but mowed back to GY as he took some of Lettens boats built in the late 30thies on their maiden voyages.
Faroese skippers in Gy :
Christopher Davidson
Harold Davidson (son of above)
Chris Davidson(son of Harold)
Mathias Davidson(nephev of Christopher)
Daniel Joensen
Nap Isaksen
Andreas(Andy) Jensen
Cant give you any more at time beeing have to look into records
I am at sea just now


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## Sebe

I sailed with Glenn Waage in the 1960's on board the Ellerman cadet ship. His father was a trawler owner, but Glenn decided to go 'big boating' - I think there was some problem with passing eyesight test which disqualified him from obtaining deck officer certificates. He was the most knowledgable and practical seaman that I had the pleasure to sail with and he was a natural artist with many paintings to his credit. Unfortunately, he has now crossed the bar.

Sebe


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## Supern

*Grimsby Trawlers*

Born in Grimsby and have trawlers in the blood.. Last member of my family to sail on them was my Uncle, great grandfather went to sea on them earing in ear and knitted his sea jumpers. Very interesting


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## afewleft

Mathias Davidson, was my uncle.He was skipper of the Laforey, taken ill on-board, he sadly died in Iceland.

Chris Jenson is another for your list nicolina, I think he was a relation of big Andy.


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## birgir

Nicolina.

You may be sure, but the fact remains that August Waage (Gudjon Agust Gudmundsson Waage) was born in Iceland (The farm of Stóru-Vogar) on august 18th. 1889.  The family name Waage was derived in the mid 1800s from the farmstead name. August Waage drowned off the Rutlandshire in 1940. His son Glen is recorded as a (aircraft) pilot.

August Ebenezerson had an older brother, Gudmundur, who was also a trawler skipper in Hull and Grimsby. Bjarni was a generation older. He was for a long time with Martin Olsen, as mate and skipper. His brother Jón Halldór (John H. Ebenezerson) was also a skipper in Britain.
August Ebenezerson´s son, Valdimar is also recorded as Grimsby skipper in the latest Icelandic skippers biographical lexicon.

Many Icelanders skippered Alec Black´s trawlers before WW1, including those registered in the Faroes. E.g. Gudmundur Jónsson (Verdens storste torskemorder, according to the danish press, in the tventies), skippered Earl Hereford in 1913-14. Joakim Gudbjartsson skippered Fortuna, and later several ships for Thomas Bascomb.

Anecdote about Peter Jensen.
He was very secretive about his special place, "Peter´s Hole". Hellyers tried to place promising mates with him to learn, but he was reluctant to divulge his secret. "Snowy" Worthington was one of them, and according to Peter he had no future. But Hellyers gave Snowy a ship, and the next time Peter came to his hole, he found Snowy there trawling. He had just played stupid in order to put Peter off his guard.

Birgir Thorisson.


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## nicolina

Hallo Birgir.
Who was Sverri Ebenezerson ????
in GY his Nickname was Overland Sverri as he grounded many trawleres!!!!
One of them beeing Northern Spray wich went ashore in Iceland in 1953 just 10 years before going ashore again and becoming a total loss.
Jonleif


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## nicolina

Hallo Afewleft:

Are you sure it was Laforey?????

Have been told it was on the Cunningham he became ill.
Brougth ashore in Iceland wheren he doed in a Hospital
Nicolina


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## afewleft

Hi nicolina,
you may be correct, my aunt told me that uncle Matt had been the skipper of the Laforey, I presumed that was the ship he'd been taken ill on. Maybe Steve will know.

Sverri Ebenezerson, theres a name from the past. I sailed with him many times in Consolidated, a great character & a gentelman.


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## birgir

Hello Jonleif:

Sverri Ebenezerson is unknown to me. I thought I knew that he was the brother of August, but according to the new biographical lexicon he was not one of the brothers, and alas, only volume 1, A-E has been published so far, so his entry has not been published. (In Iceland we list people by first names, so Sverri Ebenezerson is under S.)

Birgir Thorisson.


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## nicolina

Would you recommend one to by a copy of the Icelandic book:

Islendskir Skipstjørnarmenn: Is the title the rigth one???

Do accept the facts about August Waage.
Are yoyu sure he was lost overboard????
Grimsby Fishermen Loss list say died onboard ???? Not went owerboard!!!!

Yes Gudmundur a Skalla was one of the best trawlers skipper you had'
Did he not have a brother who also was trawler skipper.

Joachim Gudbjartson also sailed for Consols in GY

Icelandic skippers who lived in GY :
Paul Adelsteinson
August Ebenezerson
Bjarni Ebenezerson
Sverri Ebenezerson
Valdimar Ebeneserson
Thor Eyvindson
Ossie Johanneson
Helgi Johanneson???
Thor Olgeirson sen
Thor Olgeirson jun
Karl Sigurdson
Sigurd Thorsteinson
Have you more names to add of Icelandic skippers who settled/lived in Grimsby ???
Jonleif


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## nicolina

Hallo Afewleft:
Could You please give us some name of the trawlers You sailed on 
with Sverri Ebenezerson as skipper?????
Jonleif


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## nicolina

Hallo Afewleft:

Your uncle Matt had a cousin lost during WW2 while skipper on King Eric

Was his name Harold???? I am not so sure!!!

He was the father of Chris Davidson also skipper.i.e. Filey/Thornvick Bay

Jonleif


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## Steve Farrow

Here is an article about the Grimsby trawler WIGMORE that I wrote for the Grimsby Telegraph Bygones...........................
The Grimsby trawler WIGMORE

On the 18th of November 1939, six trawlers were steaming in convoy off Rattray Head, North West Scotland. They were the SARPEDON (No. 1), CONSBORO (No. 2), ANDANES (No. 3), SARONTA (No. 5), WIGMORE (No. 6) and MURMANSK (ex- NIGHT WATCH) No. 7.
According to the report for the Admiralty written by the Convoy Officer 
on board the SARPEDON (vessel No1);
“At 11.20pm I was awakened by the third hand who told me that there had been an explosion followed by a flash. In two minutes I was on the bridge and saw that one of our convoy No 6 had been hit.
The third hand was at the wheel, I ordered hard to starboard from our course which was NxW1/2N. After this the Skipper came up and took over.
We were about one and a half miles away and saw flashing lights in the water coming from lifebuoy lights. These we at once headed for but could not see anything. We then circled round the convoy to the position of No.6, in the meantime No. 5 (SARONTA) had launched his lifeboat, and I would like to point out the great credit due to this Skipper as by this time only 12 minutes had elapsed since the accident.
All that could be seen was the wreckage, that is to say mattresses, drawers, wood and dead fish. We found out later that No. 5 had picked up 2 lifebuoys belonging to No. 6.
It is respectfully pointed out that during the voyage the two ships No. 2 and No. 6 had maintained perfect station keeping, and that if as I am sure, was the ease, No. 6 was in allotted station at the time. The explosion was not from a mine or No. 2 would have been the unlucky ship.
From the position of the ships in the convoy, it points to a direct case of torpedoing.
Not being certain of the nature of the explosion I sent no wireless message as per instruction No. 15.
We remained stopped until daylight in the case of mines being in the vicinity, and in the hope of gathering more evidence.
All we were able to see, however, was two pieces of wreckage. The WIGMORE sank with all hands in about 3 minutes. After a good look round the vicinity we proceeded to Wick to report to Naval authorities.
The position of the incident was approx. 57 degrees 59 minutes N. 2 degrees 11 minutes W.”
Signed by Reginald H. W. Jackson.
Lieutenant, R.N.V.R.
Convoy Officer.
Signed by A. Donovan.
Skipper S/T SARPEDON.

Until recently, U-18 had been credited with the sinking of the WIGMORE, but in depth research by Roger Hollywood and Swedish born Jan-Olaf Hending, found the true culprit to be U-22. Close inspection of both the U-bouts records leave no doubt as to this conclusion.
At 2306 on the 18th November 1939, U-22, fired two G7e torpedo’s at the second and third ships in the convoy and missed. Four minutes later the U-boat fired another G7e at the sixth ship and hit her. The WIGMORE sunk immediately. 
Sixteen crewmen perished in the WIGMORE, the second trawler to be lost in WW2.( The first being the LYNX 11.).
The crew are as follows;

Skipper Walter Bore 176, Welholme Road, Grimsby.
Mate, W. H. Lodge 14, Tennyson Rd, Cleethorpes.
Third Hand. J. Foley 43, Harrington St., Cleethorpes.
Chief Engineer, F. Moore, 123, Victor St., Grimsby.
Second Engineer, A. Harwood, 107, Willingham St., Grimsby.
Cook, E. Winn, 25, Lovett St., Cleethorpes.
Trimmer, G. Germaney, 25, Tunnard St., Grimsby.
Trimmer, E. H. Hewson, 70, Gilbey Rd., Grimsby.
Deckie, J. Fisher, 151, Daubney St., Cleethorpes.
Deckie, H. Dumbleton, 135, Castle St., Grimsby.
Deckie, F. W. Smythe, 186, Lord St., Grimsby.
Deckie, W. Goodwin, 1, Ashtree Drive, Grimsby.
Deckie, H. Bromfield, 126, Park St., Grimsby.
Deckie, H. Clayton, back of 22 Armstrong St., Grimsby.
Deckie, J. Ottely, 27, Lawson Ave. Grimsby.
Wireless operator, R. W. Jackson, 371 Convamore Rd., Grimsby.

The WIGMORE was built in 1928 by Cook, Welton & Gemmell at Beverley for Letten Brothers as the EMBASSY. In 1932 she was owner by E.C. Grant and the following year she was re-named WIGMORE. In 1935 she was acquired by the Clan Steam Fishing Company.


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## afewleft

Hi nicolina,
Sverri Ebenezerson was mate & thirdhand in Consolidated when I sailed with him. Think his skippering days where over. He was the son of August Ebenezerson.

In regards to Chris Davidson, I think his father was Harold. I know Chris sailed with Matt, & was mate with him quite sometime. My Aunt said that three cousins had come from Faroe together. Matt, Harold, the other who's name I don't know.

regards


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## nicolina

Hallo Afewleft:

Christopher Davidson went to GY in late 18thies as apprentice on a smack in
Grimsby for 4/5 years he then went to fish with an smack with skipper Crampin. Must have mowed to Hul later as he also sailed on Hull trawlers.

He was mate on a Hull trawler wich went ashore on the South Coast of Iceland around 1906 I think the trawlers name was Southcoates 
He won a Brawery Medal at that incident by swimming ashore with a rope wich enabled the rest of the crew to get safely ashore.

His Nephew Matt came down to GY early in the 19thies starting as an deckie
learner and later becaming a skipper him self.

What year did you sail with Sverri???
Jonleif


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## afewleft

Hi nicolina,
interesting piece of family history thanks. A well deserved medal, not the nicest place for a swim.

Sailed with Sverri on the Barnsley,early seventies, Paddy Blaney skipper, Sverri was thirdhand. Also he was on the Grimsby town & the ****nal, about the same period. 

Sverri was bosun of the ****nal at the time we had a collision with the Aldershot, in 1973. Taking avoiding action from the Aegir, we recieved a nasty bang on the port side, from the Aldershot's bow. Right in Sverri's berth, who was turned in at the time. He was a bit shocked but otherwise OK, his cabin a bit drafty.

The joke in Consol's at the time, was when the Aldershot went a stern Sverri's suit hung on her bow, not true, but a good story. Both ships finished up in Thorshavn for repairs.

regards


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## birgir

Hallo Jonleif.

It is strange that the biographical lexicon does not mention Sverri among Agust Ebenezerson´s children. It seems very authoritative, and states unequivocally that Agust Waage fell overboard. But the main sources are often obituaries, and they can of course contain errors. Whether you should buy the book (Islenskir Skipstjornarmenn) depends on your interests. It is far more comprehensive than the previous one (Skipstjóra og styrimannatal), and very vell illustrated. There are 2-4 pictures of ships and related items every page, in addition to pictures of almost all the men.

Gudmundur a skalla had a brother, Jon Otti Jonsson who was skipper of the Walpole RE 239 from 1921-1932. That ship was built for Jon Oddsson, who was the most successful Icelandic skipper in Britain, especially as the owner of Oddson & Co. in Hull in the thirties. Walpole was built in 1914 for a partnership, with Jon Oddsson owning 1/4, William Letten and his nephew another 1/4 each, and a forth man (not named in Oddson´s biography) owning the remaining quarter. The ship was sold to Iceland, in 1920. Jon Oddson had signed on one of Lettens trawlers, Volante in 1908, as a deckhand. He was skipper by 1913. His brother Gisli Oddson also became a skipper, before returning to Iceland in 1916 when foreigners were barred from skippering british trawlers. (Gisli was the no 2 man among Icelandic skippers until he went down with his ship Leifur heppni, in the great storm, "halavedrid" 8/2 1925. He was second to Gudmundur a Skalla when salting, and second to Thorarinn Olgeirsson (Thor Olgeirsson sen) as fresh-fish expert.)
Helgi Johannesson you mention is presumably Helgi Jonsson, who was with Consols. 
Arni Eyjolfsson Byron was the first Icelandic skipper in Britain.
Asgeir Torfason was there just before WW1, until the ban on foreigners sent him home. His entry says that he skippered the Colonia, and the Andromache, which was built "under him", according to his specification.
Jon Hansson died on the Lord Davenport.
Thorsteinn Thorsteinsson skippered the Belovar in 1912. It is reported that Alec Black paid him full wages while he was ashore obtaining the British skipper certificate, and had a trawler of the largest type built for him to command, but for some reason, he returned to Iceland in the fall of 1912, and claimed the ship then commanded by Thorarinn Olgeirsson (the Marz). Thorsteinn was a bigger shareholder in that ship, so Thorarinn yielded. Thorarinn then took the Great Admiral for Grant and Little, (becoming later the son in law of Little sen. and business partner of Little jun. (Rinovia). The Great Admiral was registered in Reykjavik as the personal property of Thorarinn from 1912 to 1915. It most certainly had nothing to do with Moray Firth, because Thorarinn Olgeirsson never fished there.) Thorarinn Olgeirsson´s brother, Einar Olgeirsson settled in Grimsby, and owned two trawlers with Joe Little jun. (Vinur/British and Scottish). I do not know if he was a skipper.

Paul Adalsteinsson father, Adalsteinn Palson was for a while in Britain with Jon Oddson, but they did not get along, so he returned to Iceland.
Hromundur Josefson was skipper of Earl Hereford before Gudmundur Jonsson.

There are others, but my memory is failing me just now.

Let me repeat the question about "Ogmundson". (Oleson´s partner in the Hekla GY 394.) A man with that name must be either Faroese or Norvegian, as he is not Icelandic.
What can you tell me about Martin Olsen/Oleson?

Birgir Thorisson.


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## nicolina

Hallo Birgir:
In Faroes we have a similar series of books about the fishing vessels and who
skippered them e.t.c.
You do only get small bits of infos on Martin Olsen from skippers who sailed with him especially the time he spent in Canada.
The most famous trawler skipper in the Faroes went with him as an apprentice
it was in the Offa early in the 30thies.
There is an Canadian book about NatSea the big Canadian trawling companin it there are a smalmpiece about the time he spent pioneering trawl fishing for the Canadians.
Almost certain title is NET PROFITS take a look in Google!!!
I have been informed by friends in GY that August had 4 sons.
VALDI: Vorking for a motor company for a lifetime
SVERRI: Trawler skipper
RABBI: Working in the clothing/garment industry
AUGUST jun:Working in the grocery trade

In Hull was a skipper sailing for Lord Line Olaf Thordarson sound Icelandic???

Jon Oddson was Lord Fisher the first ship he owned himself????
Ore was it co-owned with Helliers ????
Was he the one wich was sent to IoM during WW2???
Was it 3 ore 4 new trawlers he had built for himself???


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## nicolina

Birgir:

Title of book is:Net Profits:The Story of National Sea Products.

Author: Stephen Kimble

Publisher: Yankee Books 1990

ISBN-10:0921054084
ISBN-13:978-0921054085

Amazon had copies for sail.

Have you heard about a Belgian book about their fisheries around Iceland
from 1945 to 1995???? Has infos/photos of all Belgian trawlers who fished
around Iceland in this period


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## birgir

Jonleif.

Olafur Thordarson was one of a number of ship-less former trawler skippers who worked as fishing masters for british trawling companies. Some resided in Britain, others were picked up in Reykjavik. Others that come readiliy to mind are Magnús Runólfsson (biography published) Jón Árnason, Gudmundur Johannsson, and Gudmundur Sigurdsson. All pre-war.

Jon Oddson was initially with the Lettens, in Grimsby, but during WW1 he became involved with some unnamed partners, who bought Walpole from the previous partnership (Oddson, 2 lettens, and an unnamed). With Walpole requisitioned for the war, they bought ever smaller and older trawlers, Molly Hawk, City of London, and Poachard. Jon Oddson was the skipper, and the war years were very profitable. But after the war, taxes, and mismanagement seem to have wiped out the war profits very quickly, and the company was terminated about 1920. Oddson is reticient about this venture in his biography, mentioning neither his partners nor the company with name. Oddson was a shareholder in the Icelandic company that bought Walpole, but it went under in 1923. In 1922 he signed a 5 year contract with Hellyers, and moved to Hull. He formed Oddson & Co. in 1927 and bought Lord Fisher from Hellyers, and they managed it for him. In 1929 he had a new trawler Kopanes built, (to the same design as Thorarinn Olgeirsson Venus, which is reputed to be to Thorarin´s (unusual) specification. Other sisterships were Blakkur and Vinur for Thorarins partners). 
After Lord Fisher´s loss in 1931, he had a new ship built, Rifsnes, which was a slightly modified Kopanes. In 1933-34 he had two new ships, Reykjanes and Brimnes built by Smith´s Dock, but sold Kopanes to a friend J.B. Willows. At the same time he left Hellyers and Willows took over the management. Later he went ashore when Oddson & Co started an office. Jon Oddson believed that the larger trawler owners began to regard him as a threat, and therefore arranged for his arrest and detention on the Isle of Man at the start of WW2.
He was arrested as a supporter the british fascist leader Oswald Mosley, but to his surprise, his interrogation was mainly about his trawling business.
He had donated money to Oswald in the early thirties, and acknowleged that he had then expressed public support for his anti-depression policies, but denied any connection to his fascist party.
What Jon Oddson did not know, and what was not revealed until much later, was that british naval intelligence had developed an obsession with the phantom idea of German Submarines using neutral and even british registered trawlers as scouts. That was revealed post war to have a total chimera.

Birgir Thorisson


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## nicolina

Hallo Birgir:
Mr: Thordarson was skipper both in Hull and Grimsby as he mowed with his ship
Lord Hawk to Grimsby around 1963 and sailed from there the rest of his career.

As far as i remember Martin Olsen mowed back to Grimsby in the late 30thies
and worked as some kind of a superviser????

Halllo!!!! Anybody out there who has any infos about Martin Olsen Danish born
trawler skipper in Grimsby????????????
Jonleif


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## gil mayes

Wow. The details you two come up with. Could I bring things a bit lower and ask about two trawlers that Birgir mentions? BELOVAR (122751) (GY109) was fishing out of Fleetwood in 1912. She sailed on a Rockall trip 31.1.1913 under Sk. George Schofield and ten crew. She was last seen fishing of the Outer Hebrides on 4.2.1913 and was posted missing on 6.2.1913. How does this square? 
GREAT ADMIRAL (127825) (GY733) was, according to LR sold to T. Olgeirsson, Reyjkjavik. Is this ownership correct and do you have a Rejkjavik PRN for her? She fished from Fleetwood 1935 to May1940 when she was requisitioned.
I think that it is now generally agreed that in 1939/40 there was some collusion between U-boats and fishing vessels, particularly off the West Coast of Ireland, mainly in a supply role. By the very nature of that coast it was almost impossible to catch anyone at it, but reports there were.
Gil.


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## birgir

Hello Gil.
Belovar seems to have moved to Fleetwood after having spent most of 1912 salting under command of skipper Thorsteinn Thorsteinsson. I should however note the in Icelandic accounts, the ship is called Belle of War, which I think is the man recording the memories trying to make sense of the name mentioned by the racontant.
I do not have exact times for his stay there, but the normal salting season was jan-jun. Thorsteinn Thorsteinsson may have spent some time ashore in 1912 obtaining a british skippers certificate, I do only know that Alec Black paid for it, but for some reason, he severed his connection with Black, and returned to Iceland, and claimed the command of the trawler Marz RE 114 (ex Seagull, from Hull), in september, from Thorarinn Olgeirsson, who was as I previously mentioned a smaller shareholder in that venture.

Thorarinn turned up in october 1912 in the Great Admiral (RE 152). He was registered as its owner, but the contract price was 7000 pounds, none of which he paid, and the "sellers" Cyril Grant and Joe Little , could reclaim the ship at any time for the same amount. He is quite lucid about it in his biography, that this was just pro-forma, and he did not in fact own the ship. He had however already established himself as top skipper. The British owners reclaimed the ship in 1915, when the Royal Navy wanted it, so they seem to have known about these pro forma deals. Similarly the Royal Navy got trawlers registered in the Faroes by Alec Black, trawlers registed in Esbjerg, Denmark, (in the name of G.E. Forum) by a certain Barratt (or Garratt. Are they one or two persons?).

Your statement; 
I think that it is now generally agreed that in 1939/40 there was some collusion between U-boats and fishing vessels, particularly off the West Coast of Ireland, mainly in a supply role. By the very nature of that coast it was almost impossible to catch anyone at it, but reports there were.

This is a surprising to me. Our local expert on Iceland and World War 2, (Thor Whitehead) looked at this issue in both his books about the immediate pre-war period, and the phoney war period, and he made a special study of the activities of the british naval intelligence. (Iceland´s Peasant Party organization, strongly nationalistic, anti-capitalististic, anti-socialist, strongly identified with the co-operative movement, was monitoring Iceland fiords and villages for british naval intelligence, searching for German uboats and. They found nothing.) Whithead states that this idea, was a baseless obsession by naval intelligence.
So where do you get the information about the collusion? I know of a number of U-boat men´s account that they would approach local fishing boats, in order to obtain fresh fish, for which they used to offer payment. Naturally the unarmed fishermen tended not to resist the "trade". This was however most common in the west indies. I would no call this collusion, which would suggest that fishermen were spying for the U-boats.

Birgir Thorisson 
His conclusion


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## gil mayes

Very many thanks Birgir, that information sorts a few things out for us at Fleetwood Maritime Heritage Trust.
My reference to U-boats and fisherman concerned the West coast of Ireland.
Gil.


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## cyland

Hello Brigir,

I am the grandson of Paul Adalsteinsson and was wondering how you knew him and Adalstein Pallsson?


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## birgir

Hallo cyland.
I did not know either of them personally, just from written accounts. 

I am very much interested in the old steam trawlers, originally just Icelandic, but later it has extended to british, french and german ships. 

As grandson of Páll Aðalsteinsson, do you have any information about the Rinovia company? Thorarinn Olgeirsson states that HE was not an owner after 1936, (when the King Sol was built), but a british publication claims that the company was icelandic owned. So if not Thorarinn, then who?
The reason I am a bit sceptical about Thorarinn Olgeirsson account, is that he wrote it and published during the first cod war. He thus emphazises his "icelandic" credentials, and downplays his "british" interests.

regards, Birgir Thorisson.


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## nicolina

Hallo Cyland:
To my knowledge your grandfather wemt to GY at the age of 17 and went to sea with Sigi Thorsteinson he gained his skipper certificate in the mid thirties.
Dont know wich trawlers he commanded pre war years but he took a trawler 
on her maiden voyage in 1939.
During the war he had the old VOLESUS and did run her up to Iceland all the war time.
Ships he had post war:Alsey-King Sol-Rinovia-Andanes(Took both out new)
When the Abunda Fishing co was formed he was one of the owners and was 
skipper on the Abunda ex Prince Philiph for some time.
If you do look on WIKIPEDEA they have some more infos about Rinovia co


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## birgir

Hello Jonleif and Cyland.

I just had a look at the Wikipedia entry for Rinovia, and find it likely that it is based on incomplete information. Some of the ships mentioned are not theirs. (Akranes and Langanes, are presumably the ships owned by Consols, built, 1929 to 1930).
Paul Adalsteinson, born 1916 cannot be a founder of Rinovia. Instead Joe Little was probably the original "main man". The funnel markings look identical to what Thorarinn Olgeirsson had on his ship Belgaum. 
Thorarinn Olgeirsson sold Belgaum in 1925 to a company called Fylkir, whose main man, but not majority shareholder was Adalsteinn Palsson. (He was ousted as skipper in 1932, and went to Britain for a year, but resumed command of the Belgaum in 1933, his successor not proving to be as competent a fisherman.) The company Fylkir had two trawlers post war, and sold the latter to Newington of Hull in mid-sixties. But latterly, there has been a company operating in Britain as Fylkir ltd, trading in fish. I do not know the connection, but believe there is some between them.

Birgir Thorisson


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## nicolina

Regarding:Icelandic trawler Fylkir RE 161 lost by mine exploding in trawl while hauling her fishinggear of NW Iceland in 1956.
Replaced by Fylkir RE 171 deliverd in 1958 from CWG in Beverley.
This trawler was part of a series of 4 trawlers beeing built for Bostons.
First out was Prince Charles the next 2 where sold off .
One went to Bostons susidiary in Boulogne i.e the stLouis .
This trawler was later transferred to GY and became Boston Comanche.
The 3rd one was Fylkir and one can assume that both Paul Adelsteinson who was the son of a major shareholder in the trawler as well as mr Olgeirson have played some role in getting the contract from Bostons.
The 4th trawler was for Hull William Wilberforce who later came to Grimsby.
Regarding the name Øgmundson i am sure that there was an skipper in Iceland
with hat name as several Faroese have sailed with him on both Juni and Mai
I think his first name was Benedikt


A son of him married a woman from the Faroes.


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## birgir

Hallo Jonleif.

Yes, Benedikt Ogmundsson was a skipper in Hafnarfjörður from 1931 until 1962. He was definetely not Oleson´s partner in Grimsby.

Olafur Thordarson on Ross Hawk cannot be the same man as I had in mind. That one started his skipper career on trawlers in 1915. I know nothing about the latter Olafur Thordarson.

The wikipedia article about Rinovia mentioned that the company had close ties to the Icelandic consulate in Grimsby. Not surprising, as the consul was Thorarinn Olgeirsson senior.
Does anyone here know who is compiling these company histories for Wikipedia?
Birgir Thorisson


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## Steve Farrow

I'm trying to obtain a photograph of the Icelandic trawler ASKUR RE 33. Can any of you kind gentlemen help with this one? 
Kind regards
Steve 
[email protected]


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## davetodd

Steve Farrow said:


> I'm trying to obtain a photograph of the Icelandic trawler ASKUR RE 33. Can any of you kind gentlemen help with this one?
> Kind regards
> Steve
> [email protected]


Hello Steve
I found "Askur RE 33 " at
www.photo.is
go to Photo GalleryII 
go to Old Ships
go to Advanced Seach and type in Askur in search box.You should get two thumbnails which are watermarked so it may mean purchasing from Iceland.
This site is a gold mine for fishing vessel images etc. but I found it quite slow to load.
Best regards
Dave Todd


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## davetodd

Steve Farrow said:


> I'm trying to obtain a photograph of the Icelandic trawler ASKUR RE 33. Can any of you kind gentlemen help with this one?
> Kind regards
> Steve
> [email protected]


Hello Steve

The CORRECT web address for PHOTO.IS is www.snorrason.is
Sorry for the previous error
Best Regards
Dave


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## nicolina

Hallo Birgir:
In Hull there was an skipper John Thordarson before WW2
I know of 2 trawler he was skipper on:Lord Hewart Bayflower
He was married and had many children!!!!!

Olaf Thordarson.skipper on these Hull trawlers:
Admetus Newby Wyke Lord Beaty Lord Howe Lord Alexander Lord Hawk
He went to GY when the 10 Lord Line trawlers where transferred to fish out
of GY arond 1962/63'
It was not Ross Hawk but Lord Hawk other trawlers he skippered in GY
Lord Willoughby Lord Fraser Lord Beatty


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## Steve Farrow

Thanks Dave................but I cannot seem to connect to that web site.
Alan Kirman an ex-marine fitter at Consol's and Taylor's, sends his regards for he remembers you well!
Steve


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## Gavin Gait

Steve I have a link to it on my own PC I'll sent you the link when i get home this afternoon (Thumb)


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## nicolina

Hallo Birgir:
Some more infos regarding Martin Olsen:
Owner of GY trawler Ryan D"Or from 1914 to 1917 when it was sold to Canada
he went along as skipper and stayed untl earlie 30thies.
Back in Gy he owned following trawlers in GY.
Offa GY 975 in 1931 as she was lost the same year.
Offa GY827 from 1932 until she was scrapped in 1937
Itonian GY 108 from 1933 till 1935
Lord Baconsfield Gy 563 from 1933 till 1935
He took Lettens/Atlas Visenda on her maiden voyage in 1937.
In his last year he worked as an marine superintendant fo an GY trawler company.
One Gunnar Olsen was also skipper on the Offa Relative? I do not know.
One Axel Olsen was also an succesfull skipper with Lettens/Atlas post war.


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## nicolina

Hallo Afewleft:
Your uncle Matt Davidson was skipper on the Kingston Onyx/Moorsom in 1946
she was not re-named then.
On her way home from the White Sea in 46 she went to the assistance of Hull
trawler Kingston Pearl ex Scottish GY who had been hit by a tremendous wave
and was disabled.By very skillfull monouvre Matt took of some of Pearls crew and stood by her until a rescue vessel came from Norway to tow her in for repairs.
Matts cousin lost in WW2 as skipper of King Eric was Francis Harold Davidson.


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## nicolina

Hallo Birgir:
Regarding a trawler HEKLA GY 394

Only trawler in GY named Hekla is Consolidateds HEKLA GY 118 
Built Selby 1929 scrapped in 1960.

Trawlers in GY with fishing number 394
Rex: GY 394 1891 till 1903
Lord Strathmoore: GY 394 1914 till 1917
Lifeguard: GY 394 1954 till 1968
Lifeguard had number GY 94 but as it add up 13 and the Laforey lost in 1954
had number GY 85 also add up 13 wich is an unlucky number she had her number changed. Better safe than sorry!!!!


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## nicolina

Hallo Birgir:
Some more Icelandic skippers in UK.
B Sigurdson in Hull

A Godmund in Grimsby

Scandinavian skippers in Hull:
Christian Agerskov
Chris Christiansen
Peter Christiansen
J Dahlgren
Harold Enevoldsen
Thyge Enevoldsen
Peter Hansen
Olaf Henriksen
Paul P Larsen
Karl Nielsen
Christian N Pedersen
Niels M Pedersen
Martin Pedersen
Peter Petersen
Tom Petersen
Frank Rasmussen
Soren Sorensen
Norman Trolle 
Sam Trolle


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## wolfee

Hello all.

reaul Adalsteinsson, my father sailed with him for most of his career, for Rinovia and Abunda/Boston Deep sea until Pauls retirement. They were good friends and as a child I remember Paul coming to visit us on many occasions.

My earliest but vague memory, is as a very young child in the early fifties being on the bridge of the Andanes for a visit from Prince Philip. There was a photo (sadly lost) of me sitting on the bridge chair and my hand being shaken by the Prince, all I can remember though is all the trawlers decked out in bunting and flags, and the little velvet collared coat I was wearing.lol.

Also slightly linked to the above. I was on a pleasure trip in the early sixties, onboard the Abunda. I cannot remember the skippers name, but there was an almighty hoo ha about it because we were stuck in the pack ice with the gear wrapped around the screw. I believe it was the Thor that came to rescue us, and a diver had to go down beneath the ice to cut away the gear. I seem to remember that the story was in the local and daily papers, particularly a photo of the diver astride a small iceberg, and quoted as "I ride the ice horse"!.
I must get to library and try to find it, but if anyone has any info I would be very interested.

cheers J.


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## birgir

Hello.
For some reason my last post did not get posted. 
My source for the Hekla GY 394, belonging to Oleson and Ogmundson is the book Grand Old Ladies by Steve Richards. The year was 1930.

Birgir Thorisson


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## nicolina

Hello Birgir:
Have had a look at Steve Richards book the trawler name/number list he has
does also include snibbies i.e.seine netters !!!!!
Any chance that your Hekla was an seine netter???
Just an suggestion


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## Steve Farrow

This may well have been a seine netter. By 1934 it is not listed in Olsen's Almanac. Does anyone have a 1930 or '31 Almanac?
Steve


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## birgir

I do not know what kind of ship this Hekla GY 394 was, but understood his list to be a list of trawlers, with the gaps representing minor vessels.

On a related matter. Could anyone with access to Olsen´s almanac or Lloyds register provide details about Jon Oddsson´s and associates, WW1 company, (It owned ships named Walpole, Poachard, City of London, Molly Hawk and Ensign.) Who were his partners, did it go into forced or voluntary liquidation?

Birgir Thorisson


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## Thor Whitehead

Hello.
Can someone give me information on the career of Lewis Walton who founded the The Marine Steam Fishing Co. in 1936. 
Best regards,
Thor W.


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## nicolina

Hallo Birgir:
Regarding Oddsons partners:
In Charles B Cox list on Grimsby trawlers no owner for City of London are for the 
period 1916 to 1920 Most peculiar as his records are very accurate.
For the Molly Hawk Pochard and Walpole he has an mr:R D Clark as owner.

Molly Hawk GY 634 period 1916 to 1917
Pochard GY 1069 ----- 1917 --1918
Walpole GY 296 ----- 1918 --1920
This mr:Clark is also mentioned as owner following Grimsby trawlers
Cylvida GY 217 period 1929 to 1933
Lindum GY 619 ------ 1915 -- 1916
Fuchsia GY 669 ----- 1915 -- 1916
Worsley GY 506----- 1929 ---1933
This mr:Clark seems to a short term owner. 
Sorry this is all i can help you with


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## birgir

Hallo Jonleif.

Thank you. I suspected that it was either A.M. Smith, or R.D. Clarke, (Clark or Clarke?), because both individuals are listed as owning mortgages in ships sold to Iceland. 
According to Oddsom, the City of London was sold to Spain, to a buyer that only paid the first installment, and was then never heard from again.

What is the exact name of Charles B. Cox´s list of Grimsby Trawlers?

Similarly, you seem to have a fairly complete register of skippers, is that from a published source, and if so, which? I would be interested in obtaining both.

I just saw an entry on the Hull Trawler website for the Mackenzie H 349, (Later Austri RE 238/GK 238). It related an event on 15 july 1913 mentioning a number of crewmen, including TWO skippers, (Emil Agerskow and Niels Kristian Nielsen) and several other skandinavian sounding names. I had deduced from the names of ships that the Neptune company was some sort of Thomas Hamling subsidiary. Do you know if that is correct deduction? Also, was this skandinavian colony specific to this ship, or had it something to to with the company?
A third question. At the end of WW1 many trawlers returning from war service seem to have passed through the hands of (shortlived?) companies, such as Yarborough, Fresh Fish Supplies, etc. I have been wondering about the nature of these companies. Where they shortlived attempts by new people to establish themselves in the trade? (crushed by the collapse of prices in the post war deflationary recession), or a ploy by old interests to cir***vent war profit taxes. (as e.g. changing corporate embodiements of the Hellyer fleet).

Birgir Thorisson


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## JEFF LEWIN

anyone remember the " volesus" , and her skipper owner, jim newton ? i spent 3 wk on her in 68 during my leave from the training ship arethusa. i was sea sick for most of the trip. strangely enough, never again, whilst in the royal navy. is jim still around ?


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## nicolina

Hallo Birgir:

The name of the list is:The Steam Trawlers and Liners of Grimsby
Author: Charles B Cox
Published: 1989 Includes a loss list of Grimsby trawlers.
To obtain it i think you have to try the NET ore advert for copy.

The skippers name are collected private over time from varios sources.

Danish skippers in Hull:
Emil Agerskov was one of 4 brothers who lived in Hull the other brothres where Christian Waldemar and Søren.
One of abowe brothers had a son who i think was named Karl Agerskov he changed his name to Charles Fieldwood i.e.Same name but in English.
He was for a time secretary of Grimsby Trawler Officers Guild.
Niels Kristian Nielsen migth be the father of Hull skippers Charles and Kenneth Nielsen as their father was also an trawler skipper
The Danes had a good knowledge of the Norwegian Coast and White Sea fishing grounds where to catch flats/plaices as they had been fishing this species for a long time with seine netters.
Migth well be an Hamling subsidiary as the Firth Steam Trawling was. 
Will revert to third question later


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## nicolina

Brothers Bernard and Colin Newton bougth the Volesus officialy in 1968 althoug she had her name change in 1966 and there where a photo in Fishing News of 
her at the slip in Grimsby with both brothers standing in front of her as the new owners of her.
Colin Newton was her skipper from the autum 1966 until he went onboard the
Boston Lincoln in mid 1968.
I have wonder why she was named Volesus but maybe Paul Adelsteinson had a stake in her and as he did so well during the war in the old Volesus so why not have a lucky name??? Pure speculation from me


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## wolfee

The Paul Adelsteinson connection is possible as she sailed for Boston Deep Sea.
I did a trip on her about '71 I think?, cannot remember who skippered her, but do remember that she wasn't the best sea ship and was not in the best of condition . We had quite a few engine problems that trip and the heating kept breaking. Only trip I did where I nearly landed in Debt.


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## Steve Farrow

JEFF LEWIN said:


> anyone remember the " volesus" , and her skipper owner, jim newton ? i spent 3 wk on her in 68 during my leave from the training ship arethusa. i was sea sick for most of the trip. strangely enough, never again, whilst in the royal navy. is jim still around ?


 The Volesus was built as the Boston Fury in 1956 by Cook Welton & Gemmell.
She later became the Abunda and finally the Volesus. At this point she had a new forward raking wheelhouse fitted.Scrapped in 1978.
Steve


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## nicolina

Hallo Steve:
Was Volesus the one with her Port side Fore Castle deck lengthened?????
They once tried out a gutting machine situated below there.
Maybe it was the Belgaum???


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## Steve Farrow

I made an enquiry through a Mr Wrack whose father Charles Wrack was manager at Boston Deep Sea, and you are correct. It was the Volesus.
Steve


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## nicolina

Enquiry about Grimsby trawler William Grant GY25 R/N Gatooma GY25 in 1933
bought from France in 1929 ex Sagittaire.
This must have been on of the largest trawler sailing out of Grimsby before the war 185 feet long and a Gross tonnage of 742 ton.
Fishermen from the Faroes did sail on her under both names and one was sailing as Fishingmaster when she was lining for halibuts in Greenland.
She did do salting trips and had Faroese deckhands for the special job of splitting and salting the fish They where hired on a fixed daily payment. 
She was sold to Italy in 1938 and re-named Enrico Gismondi.
She was based in the Finnish White Sea port Petsamo and had a mixed Italian
and Faroese crew and the skipper was Faroese.
2 other trawlers from the same company where also stationed there and they
had the same crew arrangement their names Anguila and Tonno.
The war cut short the operation.
What was the reason to by such a big trawler in a time when the great depression caused by the Wall Streat crack had reached Europe??????
Any information on this trawler is much welcomed.


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## Steve Farrow

*Gatooma*

Nicolina,
Here is a small photo of the Gatooma.....I will try and seek out some answers!
Regards
Steve


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## nicolina

Thanks Steve for the exxelent shot of the Gatooma.
She certainly looks like a big French salt fish trawler who fished on the Grand Banks of New Foundland and not a fresh fish trawler.
She must have been quite different to work compared to Grimsby trawlers at that time.
The distance between the gallows is quite long so the trawl must have had extra lengthened pieces to get the cod end onboard!!!!
The trimmers must have had a hard job with all the coal she must have used and the sizes of her coal bunkers.
Wonder how she was to work with when lining for halibuts???
She was built by Ateliers et Chantiers de Bretagne in Nantes in 1921
Dimensions:189,3 x29,6x13,2


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## jolynn

*the trawler bradford GY132*

hi, have you any photo,s of the bradford, she was lost on the 26 oct. 1916 while serving with the r.n.p.s. in queenstown ireland, the year before she was involved in the rescue of the suvivers of the lusitania, thanks, regards john


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## nicolina

Regarding the name Gatooma: I had a look into the WEB and did see that the name is of an Rhodesian city Gatooma population 80000.
In todays Zimbabwe its name has changed to Kadoma


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## jolynn

*the trawler bradford GY132*

hi, just a bit more info. on the bradford, her admiralty no. was 829 in case this helps, thanks again, regards, john


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## Roger Griffiths

*Hekla Gy 394*

Hello, 
As suggested it seems she was a motor seiner of 60 grt. first on GY register 10/9/1926.
Seems she was modified around 21/10/1930 and renamed MOUNT HEKLA 41grt
O/N 160999. Total loss 28/11/1934. There are crew agreements @ MUN to support these facts

regards
Roger


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## Eggo

What was the farthest fishing grounds the old sidewinders fished. I read of one Grimsby trawler fishing in the St Lawrence seaway in the 50's so I suppose this must have been one of the most distant grounds for a vessel returning to Grimsby. ?


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## kat

*Family History*

I am tracing my family tree and recently discovered that my great grandfather died on board a seine net drifter in 1924. His name was James Robert Smith and he was 2nd hand. The ships name looks like Record / Kecord/ Recoid / Kecoid. His address at the time was Lovett Street, Cleethorpes. Can anybody help with the name of the boat or suggest where i might find further information.

Many Thanks

Kat


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## davetodd

Eggo said:


> What was the farthest fishing grounds the old sidewinders fished. I read of one Grimsby trawler fishing in the St Lawrence seaway in the 50's so I suppose this must have been one of the most distant grounds for a vessel returning to Grimsby. ?


Hello Eggo
Are you sure you mean St.Lawrence Seaway?
This was not opened until 1959 and commences at Montreal Canada and is a series of locks connecting the Great Lakes to the St.Lawrence River.All are classed as inland waterways I suppose.
Much of the steel for the conversion of the Jaques Cartier Bridge at Montreal
to allow seagoing vessels to enter the seaway was shipped from Tees port of Middlesborough in 1958.
Farthest fishing grounds probably Novaya Zemlya, North Russia.Nuclear testing ground.
Best Regards
Dave Todd


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## gil mayes

In 1935 a Fleetwood trawler did an experimental trip to the grounds off the East Coast of USA, which were rich in hake and not fished by the Americans. From FMHT database.

"MARGARET ROSE (1) (GY355) (1931-1933)
O.N. 161009. 428g 172n 145.7 x 25.6 x 13.6 feet
T.3-cyl by Amos & Smith Ltd, Hull 

5.2.1931: Launched by Cochrane & Sons Ltd, Selby (Yd.No.1100) for Boston Deep Sea Fishing & Ice Co Ltd, Grimsby as Margaret Rose. 3.1931: Completed. Registered at Grimsby (GY355). 7.4.1931: Sailed on her maiden from Fleetwood. 5.9.1932: Sailed from Fleetwood for East coast of USA on a trial trip to exploit the supposed hake grounds a few miles offshore, the trip to take from 24 - 32 days. The trip was not a success. 8.1933: Sold to Pêcheries de la Morinie, Boulogne (P. Ficheux, manager). Renamed Marguerite Rose. 1940: Sunk at Dunkirk by French forces as a block ship."
Gil.


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## Eggo

davetodd said:


> Hello Eggo
> Are you sure you mean St.Lawrence Seaway?
> This was not opened until 1959 and commences at Montreal Canada and is a series of locks connecting the Great Lakes to the St.Lawrence River.All are classed as inland waterways I suppose.
> Much of the steel for the conversion of the Jaques Cartier Bridge at Montreal
> to allow seagoing vessels to enter the seaway was shipped from Tees port of Middlesborough in 1958.
> Farthest fishing grounds probably Novaya Zemlya, North Russia.Nuclear testing ground.
> Best Regards
> Dave Todd


Sorry about that, I meant St Lawrence, I can remember reading an account in the Grimsby Evening Telegraph of a side winder fishing there but can't remember its name. Incidentaly ,I have been on the Seaway ,1966 on Crystal Crown and 1970 on Somersbydyke but was unaware that it opened in 1959. Les


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## nicolina

Hello Eggo:
Novya Zemla is one fishing ground furtherst away from the Humber.

But British tawlers have also fished the Disko Bank in Greenland and that is also quite an distance to steam would estimate it to be a longe r steam than up to Novya Zemla by just looking at an Globus.
Disko has nothing to do with dancing but is an island in Greenland.

If the Evelyn Rose went to the Georges Bank ore Browns Bank on the American East coast she certainly had some distance to steam:
The Germans give up steaming distances in days at average speed 12 knots
from Germany to following fishing areas:
New Foundland 10 days
Labrador 11days
Georges Bank 12days


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## mkeeble

*Grimsby Trawlers*

I was a deckhand in the 1960's on the deepwater trawlers.
On the Ross Valiant we fished off the Grand Banks when there was still fish to catch.
The skippers were Pete Crane and ? Smith
Crane was tops - Smithy was @@##


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## davetodd

Hello Les
Nicolina may be right about Disko.
I have been to both Novaya Zemlya and Davis Strait.
S.T.Hull City to Novaya Zemlya in 1961 with Thorein Olgierson as skipper (Hope I've spelt his name correctly,I think his father was Iceland Consulate in Grimsby )Told to leave the area by Russian Navy due to Atomic testing on N.Z.
S.T.Grimsby Town to the edge of the icefield in the Davis Strait 1962.Skipper then was "Bomber Harris". Drydocked on return to Gy after puncturing the forepeak and bending the prop due to grounding leaving Julianehab.
However on both trips fishing was started before reaching the final areas so "Steaming time " to each place was not direct.
Still a long way there and a long way back!
Best Regards
Dave Todd


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## mkeeble

*Submarines*



Steve Farrow said:


> The second vessel also appears to be the BOMBARDIER but maybe a slight chance that it caould be the LANCER or Lifeguard
> Steve


I know I am a bit late with this comment but we used to call both the Bombardier and the Lifeguard submarines 'cos they never went over a wave only under them.
They we hard to crew 'cos they were so dangerous
mkeeble


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## mkeeble

nicolina said:


> Brothers Bernard and Colin Newton bougth the Volesus officialy in 1968 althoug she had her name change in 1966 and there where a photo in Fishing News of
> her at the slip in Grimsby with both brothers standing in front of her as the new owners of her.
> Colin Newton was her skipper from the autum 1966 until he went onboard the
> Boston Lincoln in mid 1968.
> I have wonder why she was named Volesus but maybe Paul Adelsteinson had a stake in her and as he did so well during the war in the old Volesus so why not have a lucky name??? Pure speculation from me


Bernard Newton was called "the beast" allways the last to pull in the nets. But he got a crew 'cos he allways landed a catch!


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## nicolina

Hallo Mkeeble: 
The skipper on the Ross Valiant was Thomas Smith(Tommy) he went into
The Boston Company.
Skipper on the Boston Kestrel and Boston Phantom and the Volesus.

Took the stern trawler Boston Halifax on her maiden voyge


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## Eggo

nicolina said:


> Hello Eggo:
> Novya Zemla is one fishing ground furtherst away from the Humber.
> 
> But British tawlers have also fished the Disko Bank in Greenland and that is also quite an distance to steam would estimate it to be a longe r steam than up to Novya Zemla by just looking at an Globus.
> Disko has nothing to do with dancing but is an island in Greenland.
> 
> If the Evelyn Rose went to the Georges Bank ore Browns Bank on the American East coast she certainly had some distance to steam:
> The Germans give up steaming distances in days at average speed 12 knots
> from Germany to following fishing areas:
> New Foundland 10 days
> Labrador 11days
> Georges Bank 12days


Hi Nicolina & Mkeeble,Think Valiant was a freezer ? was interested in old side winders as went to Bear Island in 1962 on Ross Rodney 'Skipper Piggot'. 12 day steam seems rather excessive for a wet fisher using ice, would they have used salt in those days from Grimsby ?


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## davetodd

Don't think any Grimsby deepsea sidewinders used salt instead of ice since 
WW2. Ice was locally made and supplied crushed directly to the fishroom.
If memory serves, steaming time to Iceland in 1950 on "Spurs" was just over 3 days (Summer time) and to Bear Island with Hull City in 1963 about 4days.(Summer)
Average speed of "Spurs" about 10 or 11 Kn. and for the Hull City about 12Kn.
Fastest sidewinder I believe was "Vivaria" (Mirlees Diesel Engine) capable of 16 or 17 Kn.
Voyage time of 20 days was common.
Dave.


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## nicolina

Hallo Dave Todd:
The name was Thorarin Olgeirson junior his father was former skipper and co-owner of the Rinovia Company Thorarin Olgeirson senior.
His younger brother Jon Olgeirson became Icelandic Counsil in Grimsby after his father who was Counsil for many years.
The skipper you do call Bomber Harris is it Joseph Harris????


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## nicolina

Hallo Mkeeble and Dave Todd:
Jack Piggot was an middle water skipper who took the Ross Rodney as skipper in 1963/64 but he went back into the Cat boats.
Regarding salting the Grimsby trawlers Northern Eagle and Northern Princess was in Greenland in 1955 and did salt their catches.
I think it was because of flooded markets and low fish prices.
They picked up special crew in the Faroes for splitting the fish as well as working in the fish room as this was done in a different way.
Skipper on the Northern Eagle was Henry Self Grimsbys most experinced skipper regarding fishing the Greenland fishing grounds.
Skipper on the Northern Princess was Jack Steeny


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## nicolina

Hallo Dave Todd:
Not everybody will aggree that the Vivaria was the fastest ship out ot Grimsby.
Many people hold the Boston Concord as the fastest ship???
The Boston Boeing sister ship to the Concord was also very fast.


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## nicolina

Hallo Mkeeble:
Beast ore not a beast always was top in daily average on money and in the end the deckies where interested in what was on the sheet on settling day!!!!!
So no problems in getting a good creew:


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## nicolina

Hallo Mkeeble:
The Stockham was reputed to put her bow under water when she left Grimsby and did put the bow up when back in Grimsby????

Have been told that some of the worst ships was the ex Fish Class ships re-built into trawlers i.e. Valafell Burfell e.t.c
Really very poor sea ships-shipped a lot of water.


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## davetodd

nicolina said:


> Hallo Dave Todd:
> The name was Thorarin Olgeirson junior his father was former skipper and co-owner of the Rinovia Company Thorarin Olgeirson senior.
> His younger brother Jon Olgeirson became Icelandic Counsil in Grimsby after his father who was Counsil for many years.
> The skipper you do call Bomber Harris is it Joseph Harris????


Hello Nicolina
Thanks for the Olgeirson correction.
Regarding Harris I'm not sure of his name.
I sailed with him twice on "Carlisle" once to Greenland for Christmas 1962where Halibut froze on deck,28 days that trip and just managed to avoid landing in debt.
Then to Iceland,a breeze compared to the Greenland outing!
Sailed with him again in summer 1963 on Grimsby Town to Greenland.

He was about 35 to 40 years,5ft.9in.approx.Well built,dark hair thinning and bit his finger nails to nothing.

Does this identify him?

Dave


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## nicolina

Regarding fishing in New Foundland and the Grand Banks.

If my memorie serves me rigth on of Grimsbys first skipper to fish these areas
after WW2 was Mark Snowy Tomlinsonwho went there in the Northern Chief in 1956 a year later Jasper Pidgen went there with the Coldstreamer.

But fishing these areas regularily started with the freezers.


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## nicolina

Hello Dave:

Never seen him but he skippered following trawlers:
W Wanderer-Carlisle-GY Town-Aldershot-Everton-B-Rovers-****nal-Port Vale
Notts County-Notts Forest-Gillingham.
Suppose it is the same skipper.


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## gil mayes

Never heard that the ex Fish class were poor seaboats, Nicolina, after all they were based on Cochrane's GULFOSS (160976)(GY146), 358grt/1929. Consols bought five of the class so they must have had something going for them. Two came to Fleetwood BLAEFELL (166657)(FD40)ex (GY456) ex Bonito and JULIA BRIERLEY (168578) (FD103) ex Cardiff Castle (SA66) ex Grilse.
Gil.


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## nicolina

Hallo Gil Meyes:

Maybe some one who actually sailed on them will comment about this matter.

After all they would know who is rigth about the matter????


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## nicolina

Hallo Dave:

Do you know how he got his nickname Bomber Harris?????


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## Eggo

nicolina said:


> Hallo Mkeeble and Dave Todd:
> Jack Piggot was an middle water skipper who took the Ross Rodney as skipper in 1963/64 but he went back into the Cat boats.
> Regarding salting the Grimsby trawlers Northern Eagle and Northern Princess was in Greenland in 1955 and did salt their catches.
> I think it was because of flooded markets and low fish prices.
> They picked up special crew in the Faroes for splitting the fish as well as working in the fish room as this was done in a different way.
> Skipper on the Northern Eagle was Henry Self Grimsbys most experinced skipper regarding fishing the Greenland fishing grounds.
> Skipper on the Northern Princess was Jack Steeny


Your right Piggot was skipper of Ross Rodney in 1963, just checked my papers. What would be the longest time tou could keep fish on ice before it went bad. Les


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## gil mayes

You are right Nicolina. Did anyone do a trip in an ex Admiralty Fish class trawler, ie. BLAEFELL, BARRY CASTLE, CARDIFF CASTLE/JULIA BRIERLEY, SWANSEA CASTLE or BURFELL? As the original GULFOSS was lost in 1941 it is doubtful if anyone who sailed in her commercially is reading these posts. Comments on seakeeping please.
Gil.


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## nicolina

Hallo Gil Mayes:

To say that the Fish class Admiralty trawlers was based on the Gullfoss type
is not quite rigth as they where 6 feet longer!!!!!
And that can mean an whole world to a ship both positive as well as negative!!!!
The Gullfoss class built by Cochranes of Selby are as follow:
Green Howard Scrapped in 1956
Gunner Sold to FD in 1954
Hekla Scrapped in 1960
Stalberg ---------- 1956
Gullfoss War loss 1941
Langanes Lost in 1935
Akranes War loss 1941
Alafoss Scrappes 1956


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## nicolina

Hallo Eggo:
That does depend on the type of fish you are fishing but British tawlers who mainly did catch cod and haddocs(Fish and Chips) would had the fish older 14 days condemmned. But a starwed market could maybe take them!!!!!!!
The Norwegian who caugth Ling and Tusk with long lines landed fish up to 3 weeks old but they mainly went to salting when brougth ashore.
Blue Ling does also keep well in ice up to 18 days.


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## Steve Farrow

This is an article I wrote in a local paper recently about the Valafell.

VALAFELL

The Grimsby trawler VALAFELL was built for the Admiralty by Cochrane’s & Sons of Selby and launched on the 10th December 1942.
She was one of the “Fish” class and given the name BREAM. On completion she was an anti-submarine vessel and was mainly deployed on the Russian convoys.
After the war she was sold to Consolidated Fisheries of Grimsby in 1946 and given the port registration of GY.383.
On May 12th 1952, news came that she had been arrested by the Russians for illegal fishing. The crew were held for twelve days and the incident caused quite a stir!
A report in the Grimsby Evening Telegraph on that day said, “The VALAFELL was arrested and was last seen in the early hours steaming Eastwards under escort by two Russian naval vessels.” She had been fishing four miles North East of Vaida Bay of the North Russian coast.
On April 23rd, she left Grimsby for the fishing grounds under the command of skipper Jimmy Hobson, whose previous command had been the NORTHERN SPRAY.
Three days after her arrest, there was still no news of the VALAFELL……and that silence and frustration and disturbing lack of communication was to continue until May 22nd.
It was later learned that the trawler had been fined 300 roubles before being released. A telegram to her owners said that she was heading westward, so it was assumed that she had been held in the port of Murmansk, but whether her catch had been disposed of was unknown. But it seemed her problems were far from over.
Six days after her release came a report that five members of her crew had been arrested in the Norwegian port of Honingsvaag after refusing to return to the fishing grounds.
Five Norwegians replaced the arrested crewmen and she sailed for the White Sea fishing grounds.
On June the 16th 1952, she finally arrived back in her home port of Grimsby, and the crew immediately declared that they were definitely outside the Russian fishing limits. The Russian charts however showed the opposite!
After a few days, Skipper Hobson told his version of the cir***stances and said “I asked for some stores, meat, sugar, butter and potatoes which were all very expensive. They had no fresh meat to offer, and what was provided was from their army stores.
They were treated fairly and with scrupulous courtesy. Mark Norman, a deckhand from Humberstone recalled, “The first thing we knew was when the Russians were climbing over the rail with their bayonets fixed! They took us to Port Vladimir about thirty miles from Murmansk. One of the guards pulled off his cap badge and gave it to me, so in return I gave him my Merchant Navy badge!”
In July 1955 she was arrested again, but this time by the Icelandic’s and escorted into Akureyri while under the command of Skipper Arthur Bunce.
They were fined 74,000 kroner (£1,600) 
The late Harry Hutson sailed on her in the early 1950’s as a radio operator and recalled that she was a very bad sea ship, heavy on coal at full speed but with very good lines. She had iron decks from amidships to aft.
“My recollection of this class of ship was that they were the only trawlers out of Grimsby to carry two echo sounders for the specific purpose of measuring the depth of water both under and over the ship! They should have had a bung for the funnel too!”

So..... Harry Hutson was't over impressed with their sea-keeping qualities, and he was a much respected fisherman (radio officer) and later author.
Steve


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## gil mayes

Thanks Steve, I missed VALAFELL (166654) (GY383) ex Bream and also NEATH CASTLE (168577) ex Mullet. Must take the word of one who sailed in her, but the question must remain, why did Consols buy them and hang on to them for so long (VALAFELL scrapped 1961), if they were uneconomic and such poor seaboats? Where they cheap ex Admiralty?
Gil.


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## davetodd

nicolina said:


> Hallo Gil Meyes:
> 
> Maybe some one who actually sailed on them will comment about this matter.
> 
> After all they would know who is rigth about the matter????


Fish Class Trawlers
Altough I never sailed on any of this class, as an apprentice marine fitter with "Consols" from 1953 to 1958 I worked on all SIX of those fishing out of GY.
Perhaps my comments may shed some light on their sea-keeping qualities.
Comparing the Fish class with the "Football" class built by SmithsDock from 1933 onwards:-
Fish class Length 148ft Beam 25.1ft Depth 13.2ft G.ton. 380
Football Length 150ft Beam 25.4ft Depth 12.2ft G.ton. 398

The significant difference is clearly the depth of keel (assumed Aft )
Further, that having worked on all of the "Consols" fleet in this period there is a lasting memory of the feeling of compactness of the engineroom of the Fish class compared to others. This suggests to me that the shape of the hull was more "rounded" in these vessels and less "square" than the "Football" class.
This would mean that bouyancy was less and account for the depth of keel in the water.
When the vessel was "iced" and moved to the coal "drops" for bunkering
it was always the case that when the bunkers were full then the after fishroom would also be filled.
A very clear memory at this point was the low freeboard that remained,probably no more than 2ft.
Since this class of vessel was less efficient than the "Football" class regarding fuel consumption (don't think they had superheaters fitted,but could be wrong) then a maximum load of coal was needed if fishing in Icelandic waters.
So,with a fully loaded ship, with rounded hullshape and very little freeboard
any moderate sea would certainly climb aboard.

An attempt to improve fuel efficincy was tried on the Neath Castle. Automatic stokers were fitted to the boilers three furnaces which would enable cheaper coal (slack) to be burnt. This was abandoned quickly after a trial trip when the skipper said "If I blew the whistle once there wasn't enough steam to blow it again" 
Best Regards
Dave Todd


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## davetodd

nicolina said:


> Hallo Dave:
> 
> Do you know how he got his nickname Bomber Harris?????


Sorry,no I don't.
Could be a reference to Sir Arthur Harris (WW2 Bomber Command )
Met another Harris who was a project director with Anglian Water Authority in 1976 and his nickname was "Bomber"
Regards
Dave


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## Eggo

Seem to remember early 60's a vessel called something like Ross Kelechakis , fitting out in Grimsby and was supposed to be going to the Red Sea for prawns. Anyone know anything about that. Les


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## gil mayes

Many thanks Steve for your comments and Dave for your reflections on the two classes (ex Fish & Footballers (Batch 1). All these comments in this thread have certainly added a lot more info on the ex Fishs. Dave, you are correct that the ex Fish did not have superheaters and this would certainly make them less efficient as in both classes the triples were similar dimensions and developed roughly the same horsepower. Your comments about depth, this is depth in the hold from the uppermost continuous deck to topside of keel. The mean draught of both classes was roughly the same when coaled and iced 14'-0". CARDIFF CASTLE was converted to oil firing in 1947, did you work on her?
Gil.


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## davetodd

Eggo said:


> Seem to remember early 60's a vessel called something like Ross Kelechakis , fitting out in Grimsby and was supposed to be going to the Red Sea for prawns. Anyone know anything about that. Les


Hello Les
Ross Keletchekis ID 5354597 ( from Miramar Ship Index )
Cargo Ship 2317 tons Built 1948 at Lorient ****nal

1st name Tell for Cie.de Nav.Mixte Marseilles until 1966
2nd name Ross Keletchekis for Ross Persian Seafoods

Broken up 20 Jan.1981 at Gadani Beach Pakistan.

Best Regards
Dave


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## Eggo

davetodd said:


> Hello Les
> Ross Keletchekis ID 5354597 ( from Miramar Ship Index )
> Cargo Ship 2317 tons Built 1948 at Lorient ****nal
> 
> 1st name Tell for Cie.de Nav.Mixte Marseilles until 1966
> 2nd name Ross Keletchekis for Ross Persian Seafoods
> 
> Broken up 20 Jan.1981 at Gadani Beach Pakistan.
> 
> Best Regards
> Dave


Nice one Dave know anything about it. Les


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## davetodd

Hi Gil.
No,never worked on Cardiff Castle.I think she was transferred to Fleetwood or Milford Haven in 1952.Worked on Valafell,Blaefell and Burfell.
Swansea Castle,Neath Castle and Barry Castle all of which remained as coal burners during my apprenticeship.

Strange how some memories come back and some disappear.

Three instances re. the Fish Class come to mind but can't remember the ships names.

First concerned a skipper requesting heavier tow warps after coming "fast" twice in one trip and parting the warps and losing gear.
Heavier warps were fitted and off he went.Coming "fast" again, the warps didn't part and the vessel heeled over and was saved, so it is said, by the forward gallows frame collapsing.
I saw this wreckage when she returned to GY after completing her trip using port side gear only. Warps were returned to original size.

Second memory was triggered by Steve's comment by Harry Hutson:-
"She had iron decks from amidships to aft"
Steel decks did run from the break at the well deck to the stern ( well deck had timber decking on top of the steel deck ) and had cast iron circular bunker lids and frames fitted in way of the bunkers port and starboard.
These were of the screw type and the very coarse threads were coated with
tallow ,securely fixed in place after taking on coal.
The bottom bobbins of the trawl as you probably know drop from about 5ft in height onto the deck between the two gallows frames.
On more than one occasion this impact would damage the bunker lid/frame or even knock it through into the bunker.
Remedy for this was often to drop a cowhide over the hole quickly followed by a bobbin.Good job the bottom bobbins were bigger than the hole where bunker lid was!

Third is the fact that the water end of the exhaust condenser was made entirely of gun metal! Normally these were of cast iron. Perhaps a requirement of the RN who placed the original order for the vessels?
Apprentices ( 2 ) used to get 2/6 for stripping out every tube,cleaning all tubes and condenser shell,replacing all tubes and repacking at each end.Final water test.
All by the light of a carbide lamp.
Enough of that,the deck gang will be crying in their beer.

Best regards
Dave


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## gil mayes

Superb Dave, this is what this site is all about, thanks for sharing your memories with us. Yes CARDIFF CASTLE came to Fleetwood in 1952 for Clifton Trawlers and was renamed JULIA BRIERLEY (FD103) lasting until the end of 1961 when Boston sold her to Belgium for scrap (a better price than BISCO).
Gil.


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## Steve Farrow

I believe it was the bobbins dropping onto the steel deck and bunker lid on the Barry Castle that caused a fracture leading to her sinking in heavy weather. It was suggested that had she had the usual wooden deck covering then some sort of timber and canvas could have been nailed over the fracture!
Steve


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## nicolina

Regarding the Fish class beeing built as same type as Gullfoss e.c.t.

By looking at photos of both tyoes one does notice following differences:

Gullfoss type: Classic trawlers stern and a straigth stem no flare of bow

Fish Type: Cruiser type stern and angled stem and flared bows

Cant uderstand how these ships can be compred??????
So Steve please put photos of them so everybody can see for themself.


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## nicolina

Sorry Steve:
Skipper on the Valafell when arrested in Iceland was Arthur Wood Bruce.
Other trawlers Skipper Bruce was on:
Burfell Blaefell Lincoln City Port Vale Real Madrid Carlisle Aldershot Spurs2 e.t.c


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## Steve Farrow

Thanks for that correction Nicolina.........Bruce it was!
Regards
Steve


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## davetodd

Hello Les
Don't know for certain but I believe she was fitted out by Ross Engineers with Jackstone Froster plate and block freezers.
Ross Group had aquired shares in the local company of Jackstone Freezers (Frank Fenner had secured at least one patent for his plate freezer invention and remained with the company.)
These freezers were manufactured in Grimsby.The plates were of aluminium construction and made by a company called Torbinia who had premises in Brereton Ave in Cleethorpes.
The plates were mounted on galvanised steel framed carriages and moved either horizontally or vertically depending on requirements by pneumatic rams.
Gas used was Freon (don't remember the number,probably 10 or 12)
Initial testing of the "Gas" system was with compressed air and soapy water(watch for the bubbles) and the final test was with the system charged with Freon then checking for leaks using a "Tilley" lamp.
If the flame of the lamp changed colour (can't remeber if was from green to blue or visa versa) then you have a leak.
These plate freezers became well known worldwide and if you are interested a good website is www.jackstonefroster.com where you will find a history page.
Conclusion is that Ross Group envisaged a market for prawns and/or shrimps 
so invested some time and money by using the Ross Keletchekis.
Best Regards
Dave


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## Eggo

davetodd said:


> Hello Les
> Don't know for certain but I believe she was fitted out by Ross Engineers with Jackstone Froster plate and block freezers.
> Ross Group had aquired shares in the local company of Jackstone Freezers (Frank Fenner had secured at least one patent for his plate freezer invention and remained with the company.)
> These freezers were manufactured in Grimsby.The plates were of aluminium construction and made by a company called Torbinia who had premises in Brereton Ave in Cleethorpes.
> The plates were mounted on galvanised steel framed carriages and moved either horizontally or vertically depending on requirements by pneumatic rams.
> Gas used was Freon (don't remember the number,probably 10 or 12)
> Initial testing of the "Gas" system was with compressed air and soapy water(watch for the bubbles) and the final test was with the system charged with Freon then checking for leaks using a "Tilley" lamp.
> If the flame of the lamp changed colour (can't remeber if was from green to blue or visa versa) then you have a leak.
> These plate freezers became well known worldwide and if you are interested a good website is www.jackstonefroster.com where you will find a history page.
> Conclusion is that Ross Group envisaged a market for prawns and/or shrimps
> so invested some time and money by using the Ross Keletchekis.
> Best Regards
> Dave


Thats interesting Dave , as you have it down as a cargo vessel I wander if it was a klondyker and not actually catching the prawns? The Suez Canal closed in 66 I think so I suppose that had an effect. Les


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## Kerbtrawler

davetodd said:


> Hello Les
> Don't know for certain but I believe she was fitted out by Ross Engineers with Jackstone Froster plate and block freezers.
> Ross Group had aquired shares in the local company of Jackstone Freezers (Frank Fenner had secured at least one patent for his plate freezer invention and remained with the company.)
> These freezers were manufactured in Grimsby.The plates were of aluminium construction and made by a company called Torbinia who had premises in Brereton Ave in Cleethorpes.
> The plates were mounted on galvanised steel framed carriages and moved either horizontally or vertically depending on requirements by pneumatic rams.
> Gas used was Freon (don't remember the number,probably 10 or 12)
> Initial testing of the "Gas" system was with compressed air and soapy water(watch for the bubbles) and the final test was with the system charged with Freon then checking for leaks using a "Tilley" lamp.
> If the flame of the lamp changed colour (can't remeber if was from green to blue or visa versa) then you have a leak.
> These plate freezers became well known worldwide and if you are interested a good website is www.jackstonefroster.com where you will find a history page.
> Conclusion is that Ross Group envisaged a market for prawns and/or shrimps
> so invested some time and money by using the Ross Keletchekis.
> Best Regards
> Dave


Hi Dave,
those plate freezers use to be used a lot with Ammonia,
I use to build them and install them all around the world for frank and I have lost count on the number of times i was either covered in Hydraulic oil or got a freezer burn, that and the sight of Frank getting his hands dirty.....

Still a lot of the jacko lads around though

cheers


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## cocksure74

*You son of a pirate!!*

Good day,

After years of searching for this story Ive finally found it.Ive heard so many stories about this after several drinking sessions speaking to "old" fisherman who were friends with my father.As you have probably guessed by the subject,my Father was one of the men who "rowed" to the German coast...

If anyone knew in a bit more about this story then I will be more than happy to hear about it.

God bless you Dad

Miss you

Your loving Son

Rod x


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## cocksure74

Sorry Im new to this site,

That last comment was reading the story by "Mattarosa" page 13

Regards

Rod


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## birgir

Hi Jonleif. (Nicolina)
You wrote;
"Regarding the Fish class beeing built as same type as Gullfoss e.c.t.

By looking at photos of both tyoes one does notice following differences:

Gullfoss type: Classic trawlers stern and a straigth stem no flare of bow

Fish Type: Cruiser type stern and angled stem and flared bows

Cant uderstand how these ships can be compred??????
So Steve please put photos of them so everybody can see for themself."

I read that the Fish Class was based on the Gullfoss class. Now, the old form of stearn and stem were obsolete by 1940, so the Fish-class would be the Gullfoss-type "modernized". A number of trawlers had been modified in such a way just before the war, which always meant lengthening them. I remember reading in the book "Grand Old Ladies" (which had Hutson´s comment about the Valafell) about the C.W.&G. built Etruria (ex Lady Elsa) that she was a very bad sea boat. This was a lengthened ship. I wonder whether there was something about the lengthening that made the convertions bad sea boats, or if it was just a case of some bad, some good. I wonder if anyone knows about it, e.g. ships like Alsey GY 460.

Birgir Thorisson


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## Steve Farrow

Hi Birgir......It seems that the fish class were indeed based loosely on the Gulfoss design, but VERY loosely I imagine! Here are two photo's....Burfell & Akranes.


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## nicolina

Hello Daveb:

Regarding your Grand father John Calver Monger here are some Crampins ships
he was skipper on:Grand Fleet Invertail Consbro


----------



## nicolina

Hallo Clem:

Here are some more trawlers that Barry Jacklin skippered in GY.

Thuringia Lifeguard Vanessa Aldershot Blackburn Rovers Huddersfield Town


----------



## davetodd

*Photograph query*

In the Gallery, Tanker section is a photograph posted by macrae on the 25th July 2007. At the time of writing it is on page 10.
The title is BP Tanker in Aussie (Newcastle).about 1959
The poster is unsure of the actual tanker but in my opinion the tanker is not the main subject of the photograph.
It appears to be the two trawlers close by moving in the opposite direction.
They look very much like middle-water steam sidewinders of Ross Group (Ex-Sleights)
The leading vessel seems to be towing the other, perhaps on their way to a breakers yard.
If they are in Australian waters I would be very surprised.
I look forward to any comments by readers of this forum.
Best Regards
Dave Todd


----------



## Steve Farrow

Well spotted Dave..........Six of these Ross (ex-Sleights) coal burners went to Belgim for scrap in March 1962. Reboundo, Restrivo, Retako, Righto, Ronso and Recono. We can discount the Righto because she had her veradah removed for a rounded wheelhouse. The trawler astern has had her radar removed ready for the breakers. I believe the last to coal burners to leave GY were the Athenian & Sardinian....one towing the other!
Steve


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## nicolina

Regarding Trawler modification:
Jon Oddson had one of nthe first trawlers built by Smiths Dock to a new design
wich made them better sea ships as well as having good speed and beeing very economical fuelvise.
This type of ships became very popular I.E.Football Class Shire boats. e.t.c
In the book about Beverley built trawlers one can see that many owners of trawlers built at Beverley went up to Smiths Dock to have their trawlers coverted/ lengthened with cruiser stern as well as new bows to improve their
capabilities regarding -towing-speed and getting a better seaboat.
From the number of conversions it must have been successfull:


----------



## Clem

nicolina said:


> Hallo Clem:
> 
> Here are some more trawlers that Barry Jacklin skippered in GY.
> 
> Thuringia Lifeguard Vanessa Aldershot Blackburn Rovers Huddersfield Town


Hello Nicolina, here's a complete list of ships, Barry Jacklin skippered, in chronological order.

Clem


GY148 SPURS
GY47 ROSS KHARTOUM
GY60 KELVIN
GY6 ROSS KELLY
GY40 VINDORA
GY590 VIANOVA
GY321 THURINGIA
GY395 LIFEGUARD
GY65 LANCER
GY257 VANESSA
GY60 ROSS KELVIN
GY123 ROSS KANDAHAR
GY122 ROSS KASHMIR
GY706 BLACKBURN ROVERS
GY702 HUDDERSFIELD TOWN
GY612 ALDERSHOT


----------



## nicolina

Regarding Vesturskin ex Hammond.

When she was in the Faroes she had a different bridge 
Only verandas on both sides and not in front of bridge
Must have had her bridge altered by either the Faroese ore the Germans?????
After having seen a photo of the Bradman her bridge looks just like the one on Vesturskin i.e.no veranda in front of weelhouse.


----------



## nicolina

Hallo Steve:
Your ex father in love Sid Brennan i have as skipper of following trawlers:
Le Tiger Lacennia Bombadier Black Watch Royal Lincs
do you know of other trawler he was skipper on ???
Was he a relative of Harold Brennan who was skipper on the Mildenhall when lost


----------



## nicolina

Hello Steve:
Regarding skippers missing from trawlers at sea both skipper George Quickfall 
and George Reynolds have been mentioned but other went missing to:
Alex Jappy went missing on the Reboundo
Harold E Chandler went missing on the Ogano
William H Corn went missing on the Andanes
August Waage went missing on the Ruthlandshire


----------



## Steve Farrow

nicolina said:


> Hallo Steve:
> Your ex father in love Sid Brennan i have as skipper of following trawlers:
> Le Tiger Lacennia Bombadier Black Watch Royal Lincs
> do you know of other trawler he was skipper on ???
> Was he a relative of Harold Brennan who was skipper on the Mildenhall when lost


Hi Nicolina,
Sid Brennan was my ex wife's grandfather and was quite a character it seems. He took the Bombardier from new and did well in her. He even named his house after the ship! 
He was known for taking several cats to sea with him which seems a strange environment for the poor animals.
I don't know of the other ships that he skippered.
Harold Brennan was his brother.
Steve


----------



## nicolina

Help wanted:
In 1923 a Grimsby trawler was hit by a freak wave wich smashed her bridge
and 3 men where washed/flushed overboard and lost.
Among these men where her skipper D J Mikkelsen from the Faroes.
I think that the initials stands for either Daniel Jacob ore Daniel Johan.
So anyboby who knows about this accident?????
Cant be often that such an incident does happen.


----------



## nicolina

Steve thanks for reply about Harold Brennan.

Regarding taking cats to sea we had a trawler skipper here in the Faroes who always took his cat to sea and when the weather was good and he was walking on the bulwark aft to the towing block and swinging his tail they always had a good haul.
So he really was a special cat she could also sense when an airplane was coming long before anybody could hear it as from time to time they where harassed by enemy planes but escaped unharmed.
This skipper sailed through the whole WW2 fishing at Iceland and landing into
Fleetwood and never had a mishap during all the War years so it must have been a Lucky Cat


----------



## nicolina

Hallo Treeve:

Regarding the loss of City of Lincoln and collision between Straton and Silverdale

The skipper of Stratton Daniel Jacob Joensen came from the Faroes

Deckhand Daniel Jacob Højgaard who drowned on the City of Lincoln was also on of many from the Faroes who went to sail out of Grimsby in those days.


----------



## nicolina

Hallo Birgir:

Just came across this in a Hull Trawlermen Loss List:

Arnie Bryon 346 st George Street Hull skipper on S/TShakespear H994
Lost by enemy action in Firth of Forth 7 February 1917

Suppose this is Icelander Arni Eyjolfson. No age given.

John Hanson (age 30) 42 Salthouse Lane Hull

Lost with 7 shipmates of the Lord Davenport H273

Wrecked at the Island of Hoy Orkneys 18 March 1928


----------



## birgir

Hi Jonleif

yes, the identity of Arnie Byron as Arni Eyjolfsson was confirmed in earlier exchange on this forum.

A strange anecdote relating to John (Jón) Hanson. Tryggvi Ofeigsson (in the Imperialist H2) claimed to have discovered an important fishing grounds (Svortuloft) by accident in 1926. It was a peculiar year, with record catches by inshore boats, but very bad season on traditional trawling grounds, so Tryggvi went searching. He noticed a british trawler in apparent difficulties. When he came closer, he saw John Hansson ship, (Frobisher? questionmark in the original) and the trouble was the the trawl was so full with cod, that they could not get it in. Tryggvi writes that some british trawlers did not even then have the mechanism to divide the trawl and get the catch in in smaller entities (bags). John Hanson was in one of them, and since he was looking for plaice, and such, he went away looking for better fishing grounds!! when he had extricated himself from his overfishing trouble. But Tryggvi Ofeigsson dropped a buoy, and made a good trip from that spot.

Birgir Thorisson


----------



## Steve Farrow

nicolina said:


> Hallo Gil Mayes:
> 
> To say that the Fish class Admiralty trawlers was based on the Gullfoss type
> is not quite rigth as they where 6 feet longer!!!!!
> And that can mean an whole world to a ship both positive as well as negative!!!!
> The Gullfoss class built by Cochranes of Selby are as follow:
> Green Howard Scrapped in 1956
> Gunner Sold to FD in 1954
> Hekla Scrapped in 1960
> Stalberg ---------- 1956
> Gullfoss War loss 1941
> Langanes Lost in 1935
> Akranes War loss 1941
> Alafoss Scrappes 1956


Hi Nicolina,
On the ships builders (Cochranes) plans for the construction of the 'Fish' class, it states "General Arrangement for GULLFOSS-Fish Class". ie, they were to be built from the same plans but the stem was raked so giving a longer overall length.
Regards
Steve


----------



## storybooks

Well, I’m amazed.
This is the only other place in the world that I have found mention of the “Ross Keletchekis”
I actually sailed her out to the Persian Gulf in Jan/Feb 1967 and left her in Cape Town in May of 1968.
She was indeed the “Tell” and already well past her sail by date even when acquired by Ross Group. I believe that she was previously used to transport wine around the Mediterranean – hence the need for her “ice breaker” bow!
She was converted in Grimsby into a freezer factory/fridge storage/supply ship and when we arrived in the Gulf (after a few delaying adventures in Algeria, Malta and Suez), we were joined by a fleet of fifteen brand new Mexican Gulf type boom trawlers all named after Iranian girls and a number. Miriam 1, Gadam 3 etc. 
The whole enterprise, “Ross Persian Seafoods Corporation” was a joint venture between Ross Group, Mr Keletchekis (a Greek tycoon) and, I think, the Shah of Iran! The name was, of course, always shortened to “Ross K” which infuriated Mr Keletchekis.
The fishing boats were mostly skippered by Panamanians with a few Greeks thrown in and the labour was supplied locally. 
The fleet captain was a larger that life Texan “Eddie” Edmunds and some of the Panamanian’s names were amazing, “Edwin Winslow MacTaggart “ springs to mind!
The boats caught the prawns, they were headed and tailed alongside and then we sucked them up, mechanically graded them and then froze them into five pound blocks which were boxed with the Ross logo.
When we had sufficient on board, we would go alongside either an American or Japanese reefer and transship at sea. The prawns were not caught for the UK market. In those days, we neither ate them nor could we afford them.
If I remember rightly, the block freezers were not all that reliable and we actually sailed from Grimsby with engineers on board trying to get then working before we arrived on station. I don’t remember that they were very successful (a difficult task out at sea!) so much so that after a year in the Gulf, we steamed all the way to Cape Town for a complete refit.
I didn’t know what had become of her after that as I left from there and didn’t revert to my old job in Ross Group but I am amazed that she lasted until 1981. 
I have some photos of her in the Gulf if anyone is interested.


----------



## storybooks

I forgot to ask - what's a "klondyke" please?


----------



## willowbankbear

Has anyone got any info on what happened to the Grimsby owned Longliner `Wendy Pulfrey`Bck.198 ? 
I worked on her in 1991-92 & loved every minute of it, The skipper was John Roberts from Grimsby & she was owned by Jens Bojen or JBA fish sales. Any info would be greatly appreciated thanks


----------



## wully farquhar

Think she got the chain saw a few year ago.


----------



## radioguy

*grimsby trawlers*

clem have you any details of a trawler called ross kelvin i sailed on her as the radio operator 1964. or can you provide a photograph please ,
radioguy


----------



## trotterdotpom

radioguy said:


> clem have you any details of a trawler called ross kelvin i sailed on her as the radio operator 1964. or can you provide a photograph please ,
> radioguy


Ken, did you get my PM? If you send your email address by PM, I have two photos for you.

John T.


----------



## treeve

Re : City of Lincoln and collision between Straton and Silverdale
Thanks,Nicolina, for the updates to The Times reports.
Best Wishes, Raymond


----------



## radioguy

*ross kelvin*



trotterdotpom said:


> Ken, did you get my PM? If you send your email address by PM, I have two photos for you.
> 
> John T.


Hi john, just found your message ,having a bit of trouble with my talktalk broadband, my ordinary email is available via PM. I would be delighted to receive any photographs of the Ross Kelvin.

I look forward to seeing your pictures,many thanks for your swift reply,
ken 
ps did I read somewhere that you knew Barney Wharman ?


----------



## mattarosa

*Ask the experts*

Good morning everyone
I hope you have all had a good summer, I have had an extremely busy one, which is why I have not been here very much. I have tried to keep up with your interesting discussions, but just not had time to post.

Like many of you, I have been trying to collate a list of all the trawlers that were registered at Grimsby, and all the names, numbers and owners they had, and I have a couple of questions I thought some expert here might throw some light on.

In Cox's "The Steam Trawlers and Liners of Grimsby" I have noticed that a few trawlers are shown as one name, and then all of a sudden it's that name + II. An example:

8/1906 PRETORIA GY180
5/1915 PRETORIA II 

Does anyone know why this happened? Were they real changes of name (would the II have been painted on the trawler?) or were they just some sort of technicality?

My second question is about the few trawlers that Cox says have "no official number". I think there is a size limit for needing an official number (I'm a bit vague about this, is it 20 tons? is it net or gross?) but there are a couple that look as if they should have an official number, but don't. Why would this happen?

As always, any help greatly appreciated. I hope as the winter approaches and the grass stops growing, I might be able to spend a bit more time here!

Thanks
Hilary


----------



## mattarosa

storybooks said:


> Well, I’m amazed.
> This is the only other place in the world that I have found mention of the “Ross Keletchekis”
> 
> By complete coincidence, since I had never heard of the Ross Keletchekis before, I saw a photo of her in an eBay shop yesterday.
> 
> Hilary


----------



## K urgess

Ken (Radioguy)
I removed your email address as per site policy.

If it was left there would be a good chance you'd end up with a lot of spam.
Please send John T. a PM with your email address to make contact.

Regards
Kris


----------



## Kerbtrawler

*The Cat Class Trawlers*

Hi all I am looking for the definative list of cat class trawlers

Just the names will be good but if you feel like adding any other info that too would be appreciated

cheers


----------



## Steve Farrow

Hi Trevor,
Technically the Ross Lion was the first of the 'Cat' class, but she was a prototype and quite different to the ships that followed and somewhat smaller. I did a 'pleasure trip' in her in 1961 at the age of 14. She was a notoriously bad sea ship! In fact she sank in the Atlantic when fishing from Canada.
The second was the Tiger, followed by the Leopard, Jaguar, Panther, Cougar, Cheetah, Lynx, Jackal, Puma, Genet, Civet, and the Zebra. Obviously not all cats but the name stuck after the first ships were built. Only one was lost.....the Ross Puma on the 1. 4.68.
The Ross Tiger is moored outside the Fishing Heritage Centre here in GY, and the Ross Jaguar is now called the Jaguar and was converted into a three masted sailing schooner and is at this time in the Pacific.
They were the most successfull of all the middle water trawlers and popular with thier crews.
Regards
Steve


----------



## Kerbtrawler

Thanks for that Steve 
Now starts the task of the research for each of them.


----------



## nicolina

Hello Kerb Trawler

The Cat class although beeing named sisterships they where not alike all of them

The older ones had cruiser sterns while the later ones had transom sterns.

Same goes for their propulsion machinery wich was not quite identical althoug supplied by same manufacturer Ruston and Hornsby.

It varied in power and numbers of cylinders.

Take a look into Lloyds List wich have all correct infos on the Cat boats

Their apperance from outside is anyway wery much alike.


----------



## Kerbtrawler

Thanks Nicolina,

I am already trawling (no pun intended) the Lloyds registers, and my Olsens
Hoping this will give me the bulk of information to get started.

Cheers
(Thumb)


----------



## radioguy

*Ross Kelvin*



trotterdotpom said:


> Ken, did you get my PM? If you send your email address by PM, I have two photos for you.
> 
> John T.


Thanks for reply,John,I would be delighted to receive your photographs, send me a PM for my email address Cheers ,Radioguy


----------



## K urgess

Radioguy,
I've edited your post to remove the email address if you wish to contact Trotterdotpom send a PM.
To do this click on private messages at the top of the page and type in trotterdotpom as the addressee in a new message.
Email addresses in public forums tend to attract a lot of spam from the bad boys out there which s why it's against site policy.

Cheers
Kris


----------



## mattarosa

*Gy73*

I have attached a picture of a painting. Does anyone know which trawler this is, please?

Hilary


----------



## Steve Farrow

Hi Hilary,
If it is GY 73.......it could be the ABYDOS, built in 1905....lost 1907 and owned by Roberts & Ruthven. The WARSTAR was also GY73 and was built in 1914 for Sir Alec Black, but with the sailing smacks in the painting I would go for the first one!
Best regards
Steve


----------



## mattarosa

Steve Farrow said:


> Hi Hilary,
> If it is GY 73.......it could be the ABYDOS, built in 1905....lost 1907 and owned by Roberts & Ruthven. The WARSTAR was also GY73 and was built in 1914 for Sir Alec Black, but with the sailing smacks in the painting I would go for the first one!
> Best regards
> Steve



Thanks, Steve. It is for sale on ebay and I thought it was quite nice, though not nearly as nice as one of yours, of course! 

Have you painted any of the Saxon somethings?


----------



## Steve Farrow

mattarosa said:


> Thanks, Steve. It is for sale on ebay and I thought it was quite nice, though not nearly as nice as one of yours, of course!
> 
> Have you painted any of the Saxon somethings?


Hi Hilary,
You are too kind! The Saxon trawlers were owned by the Bannister family and I haven't painted any of their ships as yet, but plan to paint one of them in the near future. I bumped into the grandson of one of the owners two weeks ago and had a fascinating in depth conversation with him about his family background and history. He even lent me a box of family papers and photographs. Sir Alf Bannister started out as a deck boy on the sailing smacks, worked his way up to become skipper and eventually owner. He had the forsight to see the advantage of the new steam trawlers that were begining to emerge and put his money into these.
He became quite a prominent figure in the town and indeed it was left to him to show the Prince of Wales (Edward) around the docks and one of his trawlers.....the ROLLS ROYCE.
Regards
Steve


----------



## Harry's Bar

*History Grimsby Trawlers*

(A) Hi Clem,
I believe i still have a signed copy of Old Grimsby trawlers by a Grimsby historian, (Charles Ecburg?) I'm in Dubai untill October, if you would like to view it - whatever - i can post it on to you, when you finish with it just return by post, if interested send me your addy.


----------



## mattarosa

Harry's Bar said:


> (A) Hi Clem,
> I believe i still have a signed copy of Old Grimsby trawlers by a Grimsby historian, (Charles Ecburg?) I'm in Dubai untill October, if you would like to view it - whatever - i can post it on to you, when you finish with it just return by post, if interested send me your addy.


Is this a book? I collect books about Grimsby and the fishing industry, but I don't know one by this name. Would be very interested in finding out more about it.

Thanks
Hilary


----------



## nicolina

Hallo Mattarosa:
The authors name is: Charles Eckberg
Title:Grimsby Fish-The story of the port and the decline and fall of the deep water industry.
mr Eckberg was fishing reporter for the local paper. Grimsby Evening Thelegraph.
There is a copy on Amazon- Priced at 165 Dollars!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Another book about Grimsby has been published this month.

The author iseter Chapman
Title:Grimsby-The story of the worlds greatest fishing port
It cost 12.99 Pound


----------



## mattarosa

nicolina said:


> Hallo Mattarosa:
> The authors name is: Charles Eckberg
> Title:Grimsby Fish-The story of the port and the decline and fall of the deep water industry.
> mr Eckberg was fishing reporter for the local paper. Grimsby Evening Thelegraph.
> There is a copy on Amazon- Priced at 165 Dollars!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> Another book about Grimsby has been published this month.
> 
> The author iseter Chapman
> Title:Grimsby-The story of the worlds greatest fishing port
> It cost 12.99 Pound


Thanks, Nicolina. I think I have Grimsby Fish. I think I also have Peter Chapman's book, so this may be a reprint. 

I am not sure as I still haven't unpacked my books following my move last December.

Hilary


----------



## BarryJ

*Izaak Walton Gy217*

Does anyone have a photo of this trawler?

I believe she was bought from Swansea (SA47) in Feb 1925, by John E. Rushworth, Fish Docks, Grimsby, and in Mar 1929 she was bought by R. Clarke, Grimsby, before transferring to Milford as the CYLVIDA M146, 1933-37, when she was broken up.

BarryJ


----------



## Clem

Harry's Bar said:


> (A) Hi Clem,
> I believe i still have a signed copy of Old Grimsby trawlers by a Grimsby historian, (Charles Ecburg?) I'm in Dubai untill October, if you would like to view it - whatever - i can post it on to you, when you finish with it just return by post, if interested send me your addy.


Thanks for the offer Harry, I'm in the middle of moving house at the mo. so when I get settled in the new house I'll contact you.

Best wishes

Clem


----------



## Kerbtrawler

Just to let you all know I have just finished uploading the details of the Northern Boats 
Would appreciate any comments both positive or negative

Please have a look at 

trevorstrawlers.googlepages.com/home

Look forward to your reviews

cheers


----------



## mattarosa

Kerbtrawler said:


> Just to let you all know I have just finished uploading the details of the Northern Boats
> Would appreciate any comments both positive or negative
> 
> Hi Trevor
> I've only had a very quick look as I have a very early meeting. You have obviously done a lot of work and I will look forward to having a really good browse later on.
> Hilary


----------



## Kerbtrawler

Thanks for that Hilary,
I was wondering if you would find some stories on the trawlers that I could add

It would help fill out there history,

Let me know 
Cheers


----------



## mattarosa

Kerbtrawler said:


> Thanks for that Hilary,
> I was wondering if you would find some stories on the trawlers that I could add
> 
> It would help fill out there history,
> 
> Let me know
> Cheers



Of course, I will see what I can do.


----------



## mattarosa

Kerbtrawler said:


> Thanks for that Hilary,
> I was wondering if you would find some stories on the trawlers that I could add
> 
> It would help fill out there history,
> 
> Let me know
> Cheers


Hi Trevor
Here's quite an exciting rescue story involving the Northern Crown, which appeared in the Times on Friday October 12, 1956

Wrecked Trawler's Crew Saved Rescue Vessel Guided By U.S. Aircraft

The owners of the 804-ton Grimsby trawler, Northern Crown, which stranded on rocks off the south-west coast of Iceland yesterday morning, later received messages by telephone that the crew of 20, and the skipper Colin Newton of Cleethorpes, were safe.
The messages stated that the trawler's SOS was picked up by an Icelandic gunboat in Reykjavic and the Icelandic fisheries protection vessel Thor went in search. An American aircraft also flew out and guided the Thor to the trawler.
By that time the trawler's engine room was flooded and her two lifeboats had been washed away. The skipper advised the crew to take to their inflatable rubber life-rafts and all were picked up unharmed. When the Thor left for Reykjavic the trawler was gradually sinking.
The Northern Crown, owned by Northern Trawlers Ltd, was built in 1953. She left Grimsby for Iceland last Saturday.

Hilary


----------



## mattarosa

Kerbtrawler said:


> Thanks for that Hilary,
> I was wondering if you would find some stories on the trawlers that I could add
> 
> It would help fill out there history,
> 
> Let me know
> Cheers



And here's one from Saturday, January 14, 1967, in which the Northern Sceptre does a Titanic, but luckily without the tragic consequences.

Trawler Hits Iceberg In Storm 
Reykjavic, Jan 13 - The Grimsby trawler Northern Sceptre was towed in here today after hitting an iceberg on fishing grounds north-west of Iceland.
The 804-ton trawler grounded on the iceberg on Wednesday morning, but was pulled off by the Fleetwood trawler Robert Hewett.
With her rudder and steering out of order and a leak in the boiler room, the Northern Sceptre was towed for two days in stormy weather to the Icelandic capital by the Robert Hewett.
One of the crew of the disabled trawler broke a leg.

Hope this is the sort of thing you had in mind, Trevor, will look out some more when I have some more time. Sadly, duty calls me now.


----------



## mattarosa

*Northern Wave*

Here's quite an interesting one about the Northern Wave.

Tuesday, Jan 24, 1956
Quick-Freezing Fish At Sea Trawler's Successful Experiment 

Grimsby, Jan 23 - A successful experiment, designed to bring uniformity in the quality of fish landed at British fishing ports by quick-freezing the early catches at sea, has been carried out by the Grimsby trawler Northern Wave. The experiment is being sponsored by the White Fish Authority, the Government, and the Distant Water Fishing Vessel Owners' Development Committee.
Equipped with special plant the Northern Wave, which left Grimsby on December 31, has returned from her maiden voyage with a catch of 23,500 stone. Of this 5,000 stone was quick-frozen while the vessel was on the Norwegian fishing grounds. The unfrozen part of her cargo was sold in the normal way on Grimsby market today, and that which had been quick-frozen was distributed among firms taking part in the experiment. It will be thawed out and dispatched to inland dealers who will later report on the reaction of their customers.


----------



## Steve Farrow

Hi Hilary,
Here is the article I wrote about the stranding of the Northern Crown, sister-ship to the Northern Sceptre. 

'On October 11th 1956, the steam trawler NORTHERN CROWN was wrecked after stranding on the rocky islet of Eldey, eight miles South West of Reykjanes Point off Iceland’s West coast.
Her lifeboats were washed away and the twenty man crew had only inflatable life-rafts to carry them to safety under the watchful eyes of Skipper Colin Newton.
These new rubber dinghies proved to be very reliable and aided by the Icelandic gunboat THOR, all of the men survived the ordeal.
57 men had been saved by these rubber dinghies over a period of one year with four Humber trawlers being lost; the OSAKO, JANE JORGENSEN, and St. CELESTIN.
The NORTHERN CROWN’S SOS was picked up in Iceland at 6.45 am that morning, and the gun-boat THOR sailed immediately reaching the stricken trawler at 9.20 am. Her engine-room was completely flooded by 8 am, for during the night the weather had been really atrocious with a howling South West gale.
Skipper Colin Newton was acting as relief skipper so her regular skipper August Ebernezersson could take two trips off for a holiday.
As the THOR left the scene with the rescued fishermen the NORTHERN CROWN disappeared beneath the waves.
The following day news reached Grimsby that the trawler had sunk in 60 fathoms of water, but all the men had survived thanks to the gun-boat THOR.
The men were taken to Reykjavik and were soon on their way home.
The story of one mans heroism soon became clear, the Chief Engineer Mr. A. E. Horsley of Daunbney St. Cleethorpes, had been on watch when the ship struck the rocks. Immediately he switched off the three oil- burners as the engine-room began to fill with sea water and oil.
He said “The skipper rang down to go astern and my second engineer Mr. A. Letch managed to pull the lever over. The skipper then rang to go ahead and with a little trouble I had managed to manipulate the stop valve.”
That action almost certainly saved the trawler from hitting the rocks again.
Fireman Mr. Frank Mitchell went so far as to declare of the Chief “If it had not been for him I don’t think we would have been here now.”
He claimed that with the engine-room flooded to a depth of four feet, Mr. Horsley turned the trawler ahead after she had struck the reef. “To do that he had to lie down almost on top of the oil with one hand holding a rail and the other trying to turn the wheel. This by some miracle he managed to do. I think only one man in 1,000 would have attempted to do what our Chief Engineer did.” He told a Grimsby Evening Telegraph reporter.
Even when the men were in the life-rafts their problems weren’t over. Once over the side, the rafts began to drift alongside and very close to the crippled trawler. With a lot of wooden planking hanging down from the damaged trawler, there was a danger of it splitting and puncturing the rubber boats. The crew frantically pushed themselves away from the ship and eventually broke free of her. 
One of the life-rafts capsized and deckhands Douglas Stoneman and John Andrews of Grimsby, were trapped inside the upturned inflatable. Other men who had been thrown into the water, quickly righted the dinghy.
All of the survivors gave glowing praise for these inflatables and stated that without these they would have probably perished.
A reception in Iceland was attended by Captain Kristofersson of the THOR and her other crew members. He was presented with an inscribed silver cigarette box and the Icelandic Life Saving Association received a cheque for £300.
Also there were representatives of the Reykjavikian Skymaster aircraft which led the search, the crew of the MUNINN, which also helped in the search and other officials.
The NORTHERN CROWN was launched on March 17th 1953 at the yard of Cochranes in Selby. She was 180 feet long and had a gross tonnage of 750.
Her only sister-ship was the NORTHERN SCEPTRE.'
Regards
Steve


----------



## mattarosa

Steve Farrow said:


> Hi Hilary,
> Here is the article I wrote about the stranding of the Northern Crown, sister-ship to the Northern Sceptre.
> 
> Steve
> Brilliant.
> 
> One day I will find out something you don't already know about Grimsby trawlers.
> 
> But not today!
> 
> Kind regards
> Hilary


----------



## mattarosa

*Northern Sceptre*

I found another stray reference to the Northern Sceptre.

In September 1956, there was a Grimsby fish docks centenary exhibition, which lasted for a week.

Events during the centenary week included the finals of an all-British beauty competition for the title of Fisheries Queen. A special date stamp was approved by the Post Office for the occasion. The 800-ton Arctic trawler, Northern Sceptre, was open to the public, along with the Fisheries Research ship Ernest Hold and the fishery protection ships.


Wonder if Steve knew about the beauty contest ha ha.

Hilary


----------



## mattarosa

mattarosa said:


> Wonder if Steve knew about the beauty contest ha ha.
> 
> 
> Probably even knows who won!!


----------



## mattarosa

mattarosa said:


> the Fisheries Research ship Ernest Hold
> 
> Sorry, that should have read Ernest Holt.


----------



## Steve Farrow

mattarosa said:


> mattarosa said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wonder if Steve knew about the beauty contest ha ha.
> 
> 
> Probably even knows who won!!
> 
> 
> 
> Steve was just an innocent ten years old in September '56!
> What happened?
> Steve
Click to expand...


----------



## Steve Farrow

Here's an article about the NELLIE BRUCE......

NELLIE BRUCE

After a successful venture with five sailing smacks, William Wesney Crampin had the foresight to invest in a new steam powered vessel which he had built by the Dundee Shipbuilding Company in 1898. He named her the NELLIE BRUCE, and she was to be the first of almost eighty ships owned by the Crampin family, ( and their subsidiaries ), in the years up until 1965, when the company was sold to Ross Group.
NELLIE BRUCE was built for lining and worked the rich fishing grounds at Greenland and Iceland, mainly for halibut and cod.
In September 1916, she was sold to the Grimsby fishing company, White & Willows. 
At 09.30 am, on the 30th October of that year, when line fishing off the South East coast of Iceland in forty fathoms of water, under the command of Thomas Bell, a German U-boat was sighted approaching from the West, in position 64° 30"N 11° 57"W, about three miles distant. Without warning, the submarine opened fire on the unarmed NELLIE BRUCE, with the first six shots falling wide of the vessel. Skipper Bell ordered the boat to be lowered over the side ( this was always kept full of provisions and drinking water during the war). With all fifteen crew in the boat, they pulled away from their vessel as quickly as possible as the U-boat closed in. They counted up to forty shots and when the firing ceased, their ship had disappeared. 
Skipper Bell set sail and headed for the land. At midnight he decided to anchor in about seventy fathoms of water using fishing line, but the wind began to freshen and it started raining heavily, so two hours later he decided to proceed towards the land which was sighted at daybreak. They ran the boat ashore and set off to seek help as they were all numb with cold and soaked through. They came to a farm house named Kross, where they stayed over night and were warmly received by the Icelanders. The following day it was decided to take them to Stödvarfjord by motor boat. The weather was so bad that it delayed them for another day. From here they were transferred to Faskrudsfjord before being returned home to Grimsby.

NELLIE BRUCE. Off No. 108495
Steel screw steamer.(fishing trawler)
Built February 1898, by Dundee Shipbuilding Co.,Dundee., Scotland.
192GRT.
112ft L, 21.1ft B, 11.1ft D.
Triple expansion engine and one single ended boiler operating at 190lbs/sqin
pressure, supplied by Cooper & Greig, Dundee.
One Deck.
Owners : (1910) W.W Crampin.
Port of Reg. : Grimsby. GY 494 
Skipper : (1910) W.Wright.

1905. New boiler fitted.
1916. 30th October. Sunk by gunfire from German submarine U-24 , off Beru
Fiord, Iceland,

The following information is available on www.uboat.net 

The submarine responsible for the sinking was the U-24 (Class U-23), commanded by Walter Remy. She was launched on the 24th March 1913 at Germaniawerft, Kiel.
On the 26th October 1914, under the command of Rudolf Schneider, she was the first U-Boat to attack an un-armed merchant ship without warning. This was the SS Admiral Ganteaume, which was torpedoed but not sunk.
On the 22nd November 1918, she surrendered, after sinking a total of 33 ships, excluding warships. She was broken-up at Swansea in 1922. 

Regards
Steve


----------



## Steve Woodward

Excellent but sad story steve - thanks


----------



## Kerbtrawler

mattarosa said:


> And here's one from Saturday, January 14, 1967, in which the Northern Sceptre does a Titanic, but luckily without the tragic consequences.
> 
> Trawler Hits Iceberg In Storm
> Reykjavic, Jan 13 - The Grimsby trawler Northern Sceptre was towed in here today after hitting an iceberg on fishing grounds north-west of Iceland.
> The 804-ton trawler grounded on the iceberg on Wednesday morning, but was pulled off by the Fleetwood trawler Robert Hewett.
> With her rudder and steering out of order and a leak in the boiler room, the Northern Sceptre was towed for two days in stormy weather to the Icelandic capital by the Robert Hewett.
> One of the crew of the disabled trawler broke a leg.
> 
> Hope this is the sort of thing you had in mind, Trevor, will look out some more when I have some more time. Sadly, duty calls me now.


Thats exactly what I was looking for Hilary,
Thanks for the stories,
Think you and Steve need to get together because between you I think you could cover an awful lot of stories.

Cheers


----------



## Steve Farrow

Kerbtrawler said:


> Thats exactly what I was looking for Hilary,
> Thanks for the stories,
> Think you and Steve need to get together because between you I think you could cover an awful lot of stories.
> 
> Cheers


I wonder what we would talk about?


----------



## birgir

Hello Folks.

Two short comments.
NELLIE BRUCE. A crew of 15 seems large for such a small trawler. Was she long-lining when lost?

Who owned the Grimsby Alliance St.F. Co ? 
(What I am thinking about, is the transfer of ships from established pre-WW1 companies to other companies at the end of the war. It could be either a generational transition, or pro-forma transfer of ownership between own companies, by the old owners. Hellyers of Hull seem to be an obvious case of the latter, but what about Grimsby owners?)

Birgir Thorisson


----------



## Steve Farrow

Hi Birgir,
I can't help you with the owners, but the Nellie Bruce was definately lining at the time of her loss. I have just posted a photo of her in the gallery.
Regards
Steve


----------



## shipnils

*GY.716 Pavlova*

Hello all!

Anybody who can help me with some facts about this steam trawler of vintage 1912?

From 1931 "Euthamia" and sold again in 1936 and renamed "Margaret Rose".
In Royal Navy service both WWI and WWII as minesweeper. (FY.56 and FY.802).

Sold to Norwegian owners in 1946 and renamed "Morna" (R-4-H) and owned by Valdemar Skogland A/S, Haugesund.
Sold to Belgian breakers 11.1951.

Can anybody help me with owners when British? I am also interested in fishing/port numbers and details about her naval years as minesweeper.

Any photo of her her when British will be very much appreciated. I have a photo of her as "Morna" if any should be interested in a copy.

Then I am looking forward to hear from you experts on Grimsby / British trawlers!

Best regards
Terje Nilsen


----------



## donald mckay

Pavlova s/n 134736 GY716 radio callsign hwkq Built of steel in 1912 at Beverley net tons 191 Steam horse power 68 owned in 1927 by TW Bascomb of Grimsby


----------



## aavh

Launched as Pavlova By Cook Welton & Gemmell Hull Beverley. 
O.N. 134736 342 gross tons 140ft x 24 ft 68 NHP Amos & Smith Hull
Launched 20.04.1912 for South Western Steam Fishing Co Ltd Grimsby. GY 716
1914 Requisitioned by Royal Navy as minesweeper. No FY 56 1919 Returned to Owners
1915 sold to Thomas Baskcomb Grimsby renamed "EUTHAMIA " on 10.12.1931.
22.10.1935 Sold to Fred Parkes Grimsby .
14.02.1936 Sold to Parkholme Trawlers Fleetwood.
03.06.1936 Sold to Mar Rose Ltd Fleetwood renamed " MARGARET ROSE "
19.03.1940 Sold to Loch Fishing Co Ltd Hull
March 1940 Sold to Royal Navy as minesweeper No FY 802
29.04.1946 Sold to O/S A/S Anglo, Haugesund Norway renamed " MORNA "
1951 Sold to Soc Anon Elbros Belguim for scrapping
Info from Book Cook Welton & Gemmell 1883 - 1963


----------



## Steve Farrow

shipnils said:


> Hello all!
> 
> Anybody who can help me with some facts about this steam trawler of vintage 1912?
> 
> From 1931 "Euthamia" and sold again in 1936 and renamed "Margaret Rose".
> In Royal Navy service both WWI and WWII as minesweeper. (FY.56 and FY.802).
> 
> Sold to Norwegian owners in 1946 and renamed "Morna" (R-4-H) and owned by Valdemar Skogland A/S, Haugesund.
> Sold to Belgian breakers 11.1951.
> 
> Can anybody help me with owners when British? I am also interested in fishing/port numbers and details about her naval years as minesweeper.
> 
> Any photo of her her when British will be very much appreciated. I have a photo of her as "Morna" if any should be interested in a copy.
> 
> Then I am looking forward to hear from you experts on Grimsby / British trawlers!
> 
> Best regards
> Terje Nilsen


Terje,
If you send me an email through my web site I will forward a photo of the Pavlova. www.trawlerart.com
Regards
Steve


----------



## shipnils

*GY.716 Pavlova*

Good morning!

Thank you for a fast reply to my question.
But I am still looking for her fishing / port numbers when registered in Fleetwood and Hull.
Anybody who can help with this matter?

Best regards
Terje


----------



## Steve Farrow

*Pavlova*

Terje,
In Olsen's 1934 almanac, the Euthamia still carries the reg. GY716. She is not listed in the 1938 Almanac which I cannot understand, but in 1937 she was no longer fishing. It seems that she carried her GY716 up to WW2.
Hope this helps
Regards
Steve


----------



## shipnils

*GY.716 Pavlova*

Thanks a lot for your help, Steve!

Regards
Terje


----------



## treeve

Just to clarify things, can someone please offer some advice.
Which is correct when giving port registrations ....
a) GY.216
b) GY 216
c) GY216
d) GY-216
I assume it is better to give the registration before the name.
Best Wishes, Raymond


----------



## wully farquhar

I would go to say GY 216 treeve,letters space numbers.
Cheers,----Wully


----------



## treeve

Thanks Wully .. I have seen, and used, various combinations.
Some use the "dot" on the ship itself. It is just that I have a
lot of lists and histories to write up, and I may as well get it right!!
Best Wishes, Raymond


----------



## treeve

I am working up a list of GY vessels under headings of each of the Fleets.
Please can anyone fill in the two missing Registrations?
Northern Trawlers of London (H Markham) 
All based at Grimsby.
All built 1936; 655 grt.
GY 490 NORTHERN FOAM
GY 204 NORTHERN GEM
GY 169 NORTHERN PRIDE 
GY 440 NORTHERN SKY
GY 190 NORTHERN SPRAY
GY 184 NORTHERN WAVE 
NORTHERN GIFT
NORTHERN REWARD 

Best Wishes, Raymond


----------



## davetodd

Hi Raymond
Northern Reward GY 431


----------



## aavh

Northern Gift GY 332


----------



## davetodd

Hi aavh re. Northern Gift
The number GY 332 was the number originally held by the Hertfordshire
ON 164418 built 1936 by Smiths Dock Middlesbrough.
Renamed Northern Gift in 1951.
I think Raymond is looking for the trawlers built 1936 in Germany.
Don't have her GY number as yet.
This vessel was renamed Kari in 1947,then Gronland in 1950 and finally broken up in Germany in 1957.
Best regards
Dave Todd


----------



## treeve

Thanks for the help ... actually that does it, Dave and aavh,
as I have the two sets of numbers so now I can eleminate
them and it will give me the German built ships reg (easy?!!)
All Best, Raymond


----------



## treeve

The process of elimination means that 
Northern Gift was GY 704
and
Northern Reward was GY 694

Best Wishes, Raymond


----------



## davetodd

Raymond
GY 694 was Northern Reward, a motor trawler built 1962 not built 1936 in Germany.

Best regards
Dave Todd


----------



## Steve Farrow

Raymond,
The German built Northern Gift was registered as LO. 166 and was never given a GY number. As Dave stated, she was re-named in 1947.
I noticed that you didn't have the Northern Dawn, Duke or Sun listed.
Regards
Steve


----------



## davetodd

treeve said:


> I am working up a list of GY vessels under headings of each of the Fleets.
> Please can anyone fill in the two missing Registrations?
> Northern Trawlers of London (H Markham)
> All based at Grimsby.
> All built 1936; 655 grt.
> GY 490 NORTHERN FOAM
> GY 204 NORTHERN GEM
> GY 169 NORTHERN PRIDE
> GY 440 NORTHERN SKY
> GY 190 NORTHERN SPRAY
> GY 184 NORTHERN WAVE
> NORTHERN GIFT
> NORTHERN REWARD
> 
> Best Wishes, Raymond


Raymond
1960 Olsens gives Northern Sky as GY 427, but this may have been issued in 1947 after she was released from R.N.
Many vessels were given a "new" number after release at the end of WW2,
The same Olsens gives N.Sun as GY440 and N.Duke as GY442
Best regards
Dave Todd


----------



## treeve

This is good, Steve and Dave. Thank you for the info.
The initial list needs to be reviewed and extended.
I will be back ....
All best, Raymond


----------



## Kerbtrawler

Hi Raymond,
follow my link for the answers on the Northern fleet

cheers


----------



## treeve

Hi Trev, well, I have found the original build list 1936,
and now I discover that you have the lot ... excellent
that saves me doing it, I will simply point to your URL.
I see that you have started some Sleights - I am currently
working on the entire fleet list and their histories. I already
have some family and other history online of the Sleights.
Best Wishes, Raymond


----------



## Kerbtrawler

thats great,
I didn't realise the amount of time it takes to gather all the info.
I have the complete list of sleights vessels for all of the family but starting to source all of the info is an emence task.

My grandfather was skipper for a couple of sleights boats and Steve was kind enough to paint the Reporto for me many years ago.

I hope you have a lot of spare time.

Let me know if I can help in any way.

As to the Northern fleet its still being added to as I recieve more and more from the Forum and research the archives
The latest I am adding are the court records of any of the incidents that happened.

Its never ending.....(==D)


----------



## treeve

Hi Trev, I have as much time as is humanly possible, like all day and night!!
I was unsure, now that I have discovered that you have started, that I
would be treading on toes. If you have no objections I would like to carry on.
I aim to do something like I have done with the Podd Fleet. Also working
on the Breach Fleets of Lowestoft. Amongst others, of course.
Best Wishes, Raymond


----------



## Kerbtrawler

Hi Raymond,
Got no toes to tread on.... Ha Ha..

The way I look at it, is the more of us that can report on the boats and keep the stories alive the better,

Just make sure you don't give up (Thumb) 

Let me know how its going, and remember, any info I have I am only too glad to share. 


Have a good week end

Cheers


----------



## birgir

Pavlova; Steve Farrow

Hi, 
Your picture of Pavlova surprised me. I had always assumed that the 140 footers built ca 1912 by C.W.& G. were more or less identical. But the Pavlova seemed to have a longer deckhouse below the bridge, and the funnel further back than "normal" trawlers. Why?

Was she an experimental ship in any way? The low registered hp might indicate Alec Black was experimenting with french type (newfoundland) long range (salting) trawlers. (The 160´ Passing had the same features, I suspect the 150´Sweeper to, but I have not seen a good picture of her.) 

And finally, whose funnel marking is Pavlova carrying on the pic?

regards

Birgir Thorisson.


----------



## Steve Farrow

*Pavlova*

Hi Birgir,
I can't help you with your query about the Pavlova's design, but I can tell you that her funnel markings are those of Thomas Bascomb Ltd. Buff funnel with a red band containing a white diamond with a black top.
Here is the only photo I have of the Sweeper, and one of the Passing leaving Grimsby. I posted the Sweeper in the Fishing Gallery on October 14. It comes up in the seach.
Regards
Steve


----------



## treeve

I have seen spellings Baskcomb and Baskcombe ...
is this the same family as Bascomb? Which is correct?
Trying to sort out a list ...
All best , Raymond

ps Unless someone has already done it? !


----------



## davetodd

Good question,Treeve.
I have been using Basckomb in my listings but after reading your query have looked further.
Free BMD has more then one Thomas W. BASKCOMB births etc. in Caistor,which was the early registration district for Gimsby and Cleethorpes.
Also 1935 Olsens has the spelling as BASKCOMB throughout.
Absent voters for Gimsby WW1 also have BASKCOMB's listed.
I will now have to edit my entries for T.W.B******b
Best Regards
Dave Todd


----------



## treeve

I will drop that list then, where on the web will
you be placing it? I will add your URL to the page.
Best Wishes, Raymond

ps got your PM, David. I will continue with my list. Thank you.


----------



## crazytaxi9

Nelson said:


> Hi Clem,
> Very interesting to see this new thread. In late `60s I worked for a while for Ross Trawlers in Grimsby, as R/O, sailing on the Ross Kandahar, and the Ross Jupiter. The Kandahar was Icelandic fishing, and the Jupiter middle water, i.e. Faeroes. I`d been deep sea since going to sea, and life on these vessels was a real eye-opener. At the time, I was living in N.Wales, so you can imagine the struggle to get home, have a couple of nights at home, and then back to GY for sailing after 3 days ashore. It was all too much in the end, so I got a job in Fleetwood, firstly with Hewett trawlers, and then with Wyres. Getting too and from Fleetwood only took about 4 hours, which was much easier.


Did you ever sail with Barry stokes who was skipper on the above cheers


----------



## Kerbtrawler

hey raymond stop dropping lists

when you do the lists I bet you will have different information to that on the other lists.

You are still going to do the sleights aren't you!!!

cheers(Thumb)


----------



## treeve

I have 15 Maritime projects on the go, some extend outwards
to form sub-projects, but I really do not want to invade other
people's plans, so I am rather wary, I guess. No, the only one
I have dropped for good is that of Consolidated Fisheries, as that
has been completed and I will add their url to my pages.
Sleights is a "passion of mine". As is Breach of Lowestoft. 
All Best, Raymond


----------



## Kerbtrawler

That's ok then,

Where are you posting the url's?

Once I finish the Ross trawlers I will probably be tapping you for some info on Sleights if you don't mind

Cheers


----------



## treeve

Hearts of Oak includes pages on various Grimsby vessels.
http://freepages.family.rootsweb.com/~treevecwll/hoo.htm
I will have an offshoot page to place these lists on.
Probably be a month or so before I have it in a readable fashion.
Then the really hard work starts!!
All Best, Raymond


----------



## treeve

Just in case anyone was unaware of these ..

Consolidated Fisheries of Grimsby
CROWNIES OF LOWESTOFT: The Steam Trawler Fleet Of Consolidated Fisheries
Malcolm R White ISBN: 9780953248537 
Consolidated Fisheries Ltd was one of the largest operators of fishing vessels in Britain. 
Based in Grimsby, a sizable fleet operated from Lowestoft from 1920 until 1955

The full fleet list and details are at
http://web.ukonline.co.uk/rayricho/


----------



## brixhamrfc

Dont know if this helps you Clem, but I discovered an ex-Grimsby vessel , lying at Topsham, near Exeter yesterday.....the Grena Dawn. Now appears to be a houseboat, and seems to be Danish built by the look of her. Sadly didnt have my camera with me, but I am often up that way, so will be better prepared next time !! kind regards, Trev


----------



## Kerbtrawler

Just a quick update

I have now with the help from Roger uploaded the logs for the Northern Fleet during WW2

Cheers


----------



## 00_Doyle

*The Challenger GY reg*

Hi

I am trying to find some information and pictures of a trawler called the Challenger, built in 1916 and sold to a Filey fishing family sometime thereafter and was renamed the Pride in 1920.

It maintained it Gy registration which I am also looking for 

regards
phil


----------



## mattarosa

*Challenger*

Hi Phil
I don't have a Challenger built in 1916 on my list. Hope someone else can help you.

Hilary


----------



## Kerbtrawler

Hi 
the only challenger I have was built 1899 GY 1052

I know that this is not the correct one but are you sure of the name and year?

The other Challenger is even older 1861 

I will have a look at a couple of other lists a little later just incase you don't get any other replies

cheers


----------



## Steve Farrow

Hi Phil,
The Challenger was GY 846, 25 nett tons and built in 1916 at St. Monans and owned by S. Chapman of Grimsby.
Because of her tonnage, she doesn't appear in Chrles Cox's liss of trawlers, but is in Olsen's Almanac of 1920.
Hope this helps.
Regards
Steve


----------



## 00_Doyle

That the one - I had the last two digits GY *46 and was unsur eof the first, thak you so much.........

All I need now is a picture, this boat was owned by my Dad's Uncle from Filey and was known as the the 'Pride' but still held its GY reg..........I have one picture form the scarborough newspaper, but I was hoping I could get a better copy........

thank you for your help
Phil


----------



## 00_Doyle

Does the Olsen's Almanac cover fishing vessels out of Filey, port of reg is scarborough ? as I am also trying to find the SY reg for a boat called Just Reward.......owned by William Colling of Filey pre 1935.......


----------



## Roger Griffiths

Hello, 
GY846 first registered in GY 29/2/1916 as CHALLENGER name changed to PRIDE 1919.
Mined off east pier Scarborough 16/10/1940. 4 crew lost
BROUGHTON, Skipper, CHARLES SAMPSON, Fishing Vessel Pride (Grimsby). Fishing Fleet. 8th September 1942. Age 41. Son of Richard Ward Broughton and Fanny Broughton; husband of Amy Broughton, of Cleethorpes, Lincolnshire.
COLLING, Mate, WILLIAM, Fishing Vessel Pride (Grimsby). Fishing Fleet. 16th October 1940. Age 38. Husband of M. Colling, of Scarborough, Yorkshire
CRAWFORD, Engineer, FRANCIS, Fishing Vessel Pride (Grimsby). Fishing Fleet. 16th October 1940. Age 35.
HUNT, Mate, HENRY CHARLES, Fishing Vessel Pride (Grimsby). Fishing Fleet. 8th September 1942.
The CWGC has the vessel as PRIDE OF THE HUMBER for 2 of the entries all my records say she was named PRIDE.

Roger


----------



## hulltrawler

Hi Roger , listed in 1920 Lloyds Appendix as Pride of the Humber 

Shown in 1924 Olsens as Pride Gy846 - Owned H C Middleton Cleethorpes 
Regards Chris


----------



## Roger Griffiths

Hello Cris,
I suspect that entry in Lloyds refers to the 150 grt trawler PRIDE OF THE HUMBER. built CWG 1893 o/n 102930 H231 lost off Flat Holm 02/01/1910
Attached my information from the returns of Grimsby fishing boats 1914-18 and 1934-38.

regards
Roger


----------



## 00_Doyle

Roger your are right this is the fishing boat i am looking for, as stated previously i already had the last two numbers of th GY ref. 

Collings and crawford were on the boat at that ill fated time....see picture attached


----------



## 00_Doyle

William Colling also had another boat prior to the Pride, called Just reward, I am also after the SH...... reg number for this fishing vessel, can any one help with this one.......


----------



## mattarosa

*Just Reward*

Phil
There is a Just Reward in the 1926 Olsen, but it is Lowestoft registered, so is probably not the one you are after.

Just in case, it is LT 726; ON 145775; 42 net tons; built 1919 Lowestoft, owner C. E. Beamish and others, Lowestoft.

Hilary


----------



## Bitkin

Hello, I have had a most interesting read through this thread on my way to trying to find some information on Grimsby trawler Pekin. I know that she had several skippers, and was fascinated to read of Clem's relative. I am researching for my step sister, and her great grandfather (Richard Sheppard)was also skipper of the Pekin during WW1, as an RNR. The picture that I have is the same one as posted above, and I wonder if (please forgive my total ignorance) someone could tell me what type of fishing vessel she was, ie, deep sea or whatever. 
Before this, Richard was listed as Master Mariner on board "Friend", Grimsby. Please does anyone know anything about this one?


----------



## 00_Doyle

Thank you, I'm not sure but it could be the one, my Dad said it was a Keel boat..... it was taken by the Ministry of Defence for Dunkirk.........1939 / 1940
Any furthe rinfo would be helpful.


----------



## Roger Griffiths

There was another vessel named PRIDE OF THE HUMBER a 6grt motor vessel GY1246, she was mined 8/9/1942. Lloyds war losses calls her PRIDE *OF* HUMBER and records none of her crew were lost.
However closer inspection of the CWGC records say that this was not the case. The men recorded as lost from PRIDE were in fact the men mentioned in the newspaper article. The others I mentioned were lost from PRIDE OF THE HUMBER. Sorry for any confusion.
All I have on JUST REWARD is the same as Hilary but Lloyds reg 1937/38 says her POR was London. My records say Lowestoft.
I can find no reference to a trawler of this name being at the evacuation of Dunkirk 1940. 

regards
Roger


----------



## treeve

What has happened with the website Little Ships of Dunkirk, by the way?
http://www.adls.org.uk/ Site not found, so I get told.

I don't know of a Grimsby "Friend" ...
All best, Raymond


----------



## 00_Doyle

I don't want to appear dumb, as I have only just started researching fishing vessels for boats coming out of Filey and Scarborough to add depth to my Family Tree, but where do you get copies of the shipping records and Olsens Almanacs ?

many thanks for your help


----------



## mattarosa

00_Doyle said:


> I don't want to appear dumb, as I have only just started researching fishing vessels for boats coming out of Filey and Scarborough to add depth to my Family Tree, but where do you get copies of the shipping records and Olsens Almanacs ?
> 
> many thanks for your help



Olsens are quite hard to get hold of and very expensive because we are all after them. I don't know where you live but Grimsby Library has a good collection, also Hull, I think, though I only know this from the Internet as I live down south. People here are very willing to do lookups in Olsens that they have. This is a really friendly, helpful place.

Roger knows a lot about the records, I think, and there are many here who have expertise and seem more than happy to help.
Hilary


----------



## Kerbtrawler

Good Morning 

The only friend I can Find for now is in Cox's list,

Friend GY 636
Dandy Trawl
Off No 76708
built 07/1877

There is also The Friends Gy 826 but again is very old Built in 01/1882
She spent some time in Gt yarmouth.

cheers


----------



## Bitkin

Good morning Kerbtrawler, and thank you for that; however both those "Friends" were built a few years too late for my man Richard Sheppard, who was Master of Friend, in 1881. His story is fascinating as he started life in a London Workhouse, then in 1861 lied about his age to serve an apprenticeship on board "Lisa" a Billingsgate trawler. He became a Master Mariner in the late 1800s. 
Anyway, thank you for your help
Sally


----------



## Steve Farrow

Bitkin said:


> Hello, I have had a most interesting read through this thread on my way to trying to find some information on Grimsby trawler Pekin. I know that she had several skippers, and was fascinated to read of Clem's relative. I am researching for my step sister, and her great grandfather (Richard Sheppard)was also skipper of the Pekin during WW1, as an RNR. The picture that I have is the same one as posted above, and I wonder if (please forgive my total ignorance) someone could tell me what type of fishing vessel she was, ie, deep sea or whatever.
> Before this, Richard was listed as Master Mariner on board "Friend", Grimsby. Please does anyone know anything about this one?


I will post a photo of the PEKEN in the Fishing Gallery. She was built by Cochranes Shipbuilders of Selby, & first registered in January 1908 and owned by H.L. Taylor (Diamond Steam Fishing Company Ltd of Grimsby) GY. 354. She was a typical coal-burning trawler of her time and would fish mainly in the North Sea and at the Faroes although sometimes she would venture much further. she was120 feet in length, 22 feet in beam, 228 gross tons and 119 nett tons. Her official builders No was 127823. Scrapped in September 1958.
In 1914 she was requisitioned by the Admiralty and converted into a mine sweeper. Named PEKIN in WW1. Returned to fishing in 1919.
There was also a vessel built in1917 called the Festing Grindall and re-named Pekin in 1919 but obviously saw no war service! 1920 reverted back to her old name.
Regards
Steve www.trawlerart.com

The Friend was registered in Grimsby from 1887- 1894 and her off number was 76708. She was not a fishing vessel but probably involved in the coasting trade out of the Royal Dock. Hence the Master Mariner and not Skipper!


----------



## 00_Doyle

Mattrosa, I will take Just Reward to teh Lowestoft forum, to see if I can get any more info.....thanks


----------



## Bitkin

Good evening, and I apologise for posting without waking my brain up this morning! Clearly the Friend that Kerbtrawler found built in 1877 is a distinct possibility,(after all, 1877 does come before 1881!!). and thank you and Steve for all that information.

By way of interest - Richard appeared twice on 1881 census. Once at home, where along with his family he had two lodgers, George and Henry Dodson, who were apprentice fishermen; and then on board "Friend" again with George and Henry. One can only imagine that they were recorded as they sat down to a hearty breakfast together, perhaps discussing the coming day's fishing, and then were recorded again later in the day when they were out at sea? The fact that they were indeed fishermen though, makes me wonder if the vessel that Steve has found is the incorrect one.


----------



## Steve Farrow

*Friend*

Hi Bitkin,
Kerbcrawler was dead right about FRIEND beind a fishing smack! Her dimensions were, 76.04' x 20' x 10.2'. crewed by 3 men & 2 boys. Charles Cox's book has R. Shepherd as her owner until she was sold in October 1894 to O. Halvorsen. She would have looked like the smack Hibernia in this photo.
Steve


----------



## Bitkin

Steve, - you have really made my night, and thank you for the picture of what the vessel would have looked like. (I really appreciate the fact that all of you experts realise that I am completely new to all of this). I was pretty certain that Richard Sheppard owned the Friend,(the spelling of his name varied constantly between Sheppard and Shepherd) but was not sure, and this seems to be conclusive. If I could buy you a drink, I would!!!
Sally
ps. This makes me think.......... I have discovered that the two fishermen living with him were relatives of his wife. Considering Richard's background, surely he could not have afforded to buy Friend by himself? Therefore I now need to delve into the parents of his wife and see how wealthy they were!!


----------



## Steve Farrow

In Cox's Sailing Trawlers and Liners of Grimsby, he lists two smacks with the same name of ALPHA. GY. 569.........7/1876-96 and GY. 67.........2/1887-97. It seems odd to have two vessels with the same name fishing out of the port at the same time. Confusing to say the least but was this really the case or are these dates wrong. I am researching a George Butler who was lost off a smack with this name on November 17th 1893 aged 34. Any thoughts on this would be most welcome!
Steve


----------



## Kerbtrawler

Hi Steve,
I have sent you a PM with some details that will hopefully be useful to you

Cheers


----------



## davetodd

Hi Steve
1935 Olsens have the following:-
Alert 125973 BF 70 Henry Findlay Portsoy Banff and others
Alert ? BF 133 Alexr.Watt Gardenstown and others

Betty ? INS 48 W.McLeman Senr.,Avoch and others
Betty ? INS 198 James Souter and others Lossiemouth

Daisy ? FR 385 F.watt & A.West Frseraburg
Daisy ? FR 900 J.Ritchie and others Aberdeen

Handy 117508 SY 2 A.Nicholson and others Stormoway
Handy ? SY 555 Murdo Matheson Gravir

Inter Nos ? PZ 46 David Sleeman Senr. and others Mousehole
Inter Nos ? PZ 46 David Sleeman Senr. and others Mousehole

Irene 117977 BCK 341 R.Irvin & Sons Ltd N.Shields
Irene 120362 BCK 196 Adam Gordon Portgordon and others

Ivy 119675 INS 10 G.McPherson and others Hopeman
Ivy ? INS 248 Wm.Cormack and others Lossiemouth

Liberty ? BF 429 James Addison and others Cullen
Liberty 177509 BF 1269 George Reid Buckie Banff and others 

Rose ? SY 179 M.Nicholson and others Lewis
Rose 119658 SY  112 A.T.Bruce Portknockie and M.Mcleod Strnwy.

Rugby 139924 GY 994 Rugby S.F.Co.Ltd.
Rugby 96194 GY 1160 Gy.Trawler Owners Direct Fish Supply Co.Ltd.

Thistle 114511 LT 408 Con.Fisheries Ltd. Grimsby
Thistle 119374 LT 495 Geo.Mitchell Lowestoft

Viola 125823 BF 897 G.Flett jr.and others Findochty
Viola 125846 BF 968 Forbes West Gardenstown and others

Winner 119674 BF 1805 P.J.T.and P. Reid Portgordon
Winner ? BF 391 G.and A.Ritchie Whitehills Banff

So it would seem that the example you gave for 1876
to 1897 was not uncommon in 1935.
The entry for Inter Nos appears to me to be just a double entry of the same vessel.
One observation is that the vessels with same names and ports of registration do not have the same owners, which tends to rule out a replacement vessel due to loss or sale, or perhaps not.
The double naming/port reg. occurs mostly in Scotland and in Banff more than any where else.
Not sure if this has any significance.
Best Regards
Dave


----------



## Roger Griffiths

Steve Farrow said:


> In Cox's Sailing Trawlers and Liners of Grimsby, he lists two smacks with the same name of ALPHA. GY. 569.........7/1876-96 and GY. 67.........2/1887-97. It seems odd to have two vessels with the same name fishing out of the port at the same time. Confusing to say the least but was this really the case or are these dates wrong. I am researching a George Butler who was lost off a smack with this name on November 17th 1893 aged 34. Any thoughts on this would be most welcome!
> Steve


Hello Steve,
According to the returns of Grimsby fishing boats 1893-1898, there were indeed two ALPHA'S around at this time.

ALPHA GY67 O/N88903 a liner of 91 nrt, on GY reg 2/2/1887
and 
ALPHA GY569 O/N73241 a trawler of 74 nrt, on GY reg 29/3/1890

The crew lists for 1893 for the vessel O/N 88903 are at MUN
http://www.mun.ca/mha/holdings/viewcombinedcrews.php?Official_No=88903
I cannot find a crew list for the vessel O/N 73241

If Geo. Butlers death was recorded correctly ( A good number of fishermen were not) then there should be a record in the National Archives 
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/...tails.asp?CATID=374673&CATLN=6&accessmethod=5
The information given in the BT334 series is as follows: 

Name of ship, official number, port of registry, date of death, place of death, name of deceased, sex, age, rating [for seamen], rank or profession or occupation [for non-seamen], nationality and birthplace, last place of abode, cause of death, remarks. 
The registers cover the period 1891-1964 and there are indexes arranged both by ships' names and individuals' names. Entries in the indexes in red ink refer to passengers; those in black ink to crew. 

Regards
Roger


----------



## Steve Farrow

Thanks for all the above information............I will knuckle down to see what, if any details are recorded of his loss, only the date (Nov 17th 1893) and the smack's name ALPHA have been given to me.
Regards
Steve


----------



## hulltrawler

*Alpha 1893*

Hi Steve 
NE lincs have crew lists for the Alpha 1893 :

http://dscalm.nelincs.gov.uk/DServe/DServe.exe?dsqApp=Archive&dsqDb=Catalog&dsqCmd=Search.tcl

Place Alpha in ( Any text )

Hope this helps 

Chris.


----------



## RobertB

*Grimsby Trawlers*

Hi, I have a load of old Grimsby & Hull trawler photographs which I could copy onto a cd-rom for you if you would like them. Please send your address via e-mail & the disc could be with you towards the end of the week. Regards RobertB.


----------



## Steve Farrow

Thanks Chris.............I have just been in touch with N. E. Lincs archive section and they are looking into it for me. I will let you know if I have any luck!
Regards
Steve


----------



## Steve Farrow

*Photographs*



RobertB said:


> Hi, I have a load of old Grimsby & Hull trawler photographs which I could copy onto a cd-rom for you if you would like them. Please send your address via e-mail & the disc could be with you towards the end of the week. Regards RobertB.


Hi Robert,
Thank you for the offer, I have sent you a P/M
regards
Steve


----------



## hulltrawler

Hi Steve 

No problem hope you find him and relevant info, I did notice if you place George Butler in, it returns 3 hits of a skipper with same name?.

Regards Chris.


----------



## Steve Farrow

Hi Chris,
Archives can't find anything! I have his skippers certificate but that does not mean he was skipper at the time of his loss. Two smacks called Alpha complicates matters! I will dig deeper....
Regards
Steve


----------



## hulltrawler

Worth a try there are several instances of 2 Hull smacks with the same name at the same time. And there are many smacks and fishermen which swapped between Hull and Grimsby on a regular basis dependant on the markets at either.
Good Hunting.


----------



## Steve Farrow

hulltrawler said:


> Hi Steve
> 
> No problem hope you find him and relevant info, I did notice if you place George Butler in, it returns 3 hits of a skipper with same name?.
> 
> Regards Chris.


Chris........yes George Butler crops up as skipper of three smacks, Star of Hope, Volunteer and Hopeful, but not on the Alpha. I now have his 1893 final settling sheet with all of his and his wife's rent and subs deductions that states 'Mr. George Butler late Skipper ALPHA.'
Final deduction of £5.0.0 'For vessel at Iceland?
Getting nearer!
Regards
Steve


----------



## mattarosa

*Bradford*

Hello everyone

Does anyone have a picture of Grimsby trawler Bradford please? The grandfather of a friend of mine was aboard in 1911.

Hilary


----------



## 00_Doyle

Does anyone have any info on 'Just Reward' SH5, keel boat from Scarborough....many thanks Phil


----------



## itfc rules

Could anyone help me track down info and pics of the Carlisle, She fished from lowestoft in the late 70's - 80's but came into grimsby often.


----------



## Richard Nielsen

birgir said:


> Hallo Jonleif.
> 
> Thank you. I suspected that it was either A.M. Smith, or R.D. Clarke, (Clark or Clarke?), because both individuals are listed as owning mortgages in ships sold to Iceland.
> According to Oddsom, the City of London was sold to Spain, to a buyer that only paid the first installment, and was then never heard from again.
> 
> What is the exact name of Charles B. Cox´s list of Grimsby Trawlers?
> 
> Similarly, you seem to have a fairly complete register of skippers, is that from a published source, and if so, which? I would be interested in obtaining both.
> 
> I just saw an entry on the Hull Trawler website for the Mackenzie H 349, (Later Austri RE 238/GK 238). It related an event on 15 july 1913 mentioning a number of crewmen, including TWO skippers, (Emil Agerskow and Niels Kristian Nielsen) and several other skandinavian sounding names. I had deduced from the names of ships that the Neptune company was some sort of Thomas Hamling subsidiary. Do you know if that is correct deduction? Also, was this skandinavian colony specific to this ship, or had it something to to with the company?
> A third question. At the end of WW1 many trawlers returning from war service seem to have passed through the hands of (shortlived?) companies, such as Yarborough, Fresh Fish Supplies, etc. I have been wondering about the nature of these companies. Where they shortlived attempts by new people to establish themselves in the trade? (crushed by the collapse of prices in the post war deflationary recession), or a ploy by old interests to cir***vent war profit taxes. (as e.g. changing corporate embodiements of the Hellyer fleet).
> 
> Birgir Thorisson


Hi,

I have some do***ents about the Neptune Steam Fishing Company somewhere. I think that John Robinson was secretary and part owner. Thomas Hamling had an interest, as did Arthur Hudson. I can't find any record of it after the First World War. 

I would be very interested in any further information.

Thank you,

Richard


----------



## Richard Nielsen

nicolina said:


> Hallo Birgir:
> 
> The name of the list is:The Steam Trawlers and Liners of Grimsby
> Author: Charles B Cox
> Published: 1989 Includes a loss list of Grimsby trawlers.
> To obtain it i think you have to try the NET ore advert for copy.
> 
> The skippers name are collected private over time from varios sources.
> 
> Danish skippers in Hull:
> Emil Agerskov was one of 4 brothers who lived in Hull the other brothres where Christian Waldemar and Søren.
> One of abowe brothers had a son who i think was named Karl Agerskov he changed his name to Charles Fieldwood i.e.Same name but in English.
> He was for a time secretary of Grimsby Trawler Officers Guild.
> Niels Kristian Nielsen migth be the father of Hull skippers Charles and Kenneth Nielsen as their father was also an trawler skipper
> The Danes had a good knowledge of the Norwegian Coast and White Sea fishing grounds where to catch flats/plaices as they had been fishing this species for a long time with seine netters.
> Migth well be an Hamling subsidiary as the Firth Steam Trawling was.
> Will revert to third question later



Emil Agerskov/Agerskow was one of three brothers- the other two were Soren and Waldemar (who was put on the roll of honour in 1888- does anyone know what for, or how to find out?).

Christian and Charles (who changed his name to Fieldwood) were sons of Emil Agerskow.

Niels Kristian Nielsen was the grandfather of Kenneth Nielsen (whose father Arthur was also a skipper). I have not heard of Charles Nielsen- he is no relation.

Richard


----------



## Richard Nielsen

I'm not sure if this is the right thread for this, but does anyone know how to find information about Scarborough trawlers?

Thanks,

Richard


----------



## Steve Farrow

hulltrawler said:


> Worth a try there are several instances of 2 Hull smacks with the same name at the same time. And there are many smacks and fishermen which swapped between Hull and Grimsby on a regular basis dependant on the markets at either.
> Good Hunting.


Hi Chris,
I managed to find out the smack George Butler was lost off...........ALPHA GY 67. I have the settling sheet with all the debits written in copperplate for the year 1893 until his loss in November. It seems they had been fishing at Iceland in June and July and called in to purchase some more bait and sell the catch. The cost of this bait was £4. which he paid by cheque. Well, one ALPHA was a beam trawler and the other, GY 67 was a long-liner. He was definately skipper but we don't know if he was washed overboard, pushed (it did happen) or if he fell. It seems to have been quite common place. Over a twenty year period from 1880, 278 young apprentice lads were lost at sea. It is difficult to imagine the horrors of what thes crews witnessed and endured. Many were forced into fishing from the workhouses in the midlands because the smack owners could not find enough crews owing to the rapid expansion of the industry. Some came from orphanages and others from the penal system. A few made good and became skippers and eventually owners themselves but for the vast majority it must have been hell. 
Then of course there are the losses amongst the skippers, mates and deck hands, never to return. From 1876-1895, 1112 fishermen were lost off smacks from Grimsby alone. 
Regards
Steve


----------



## Roger Griffiths

Steve Farrow said:


> Hi Chris,
> I managed to find out the smack George Butler was lost off...........ALPHA GY 67. I have the settling sheet with all the debits written in copperplate for the year 1893 until his loss in November. It seems they had been fishing at Iceland in June and July and called in to purchase some more bait and sell the catch. The cost of this bait was £4. which he paid by cheque. Well, one ALPHA was a beam trawler and the other, GY 67 was a long-liner. He was definately skipper but we don't know if he was washed overboard, pushed (it did happen) or if he fell. It seems to have been quite common place. Over a twenty year period from 1880, 278 young apprentice lads were lost at sea. It is difficult to imagine the horrors of what thes crews witnessed and endured. Many were forced into fishing from the workhouses in the midlands because the smack owners could not find enough crews owing to the rapid expansion of the industry. Some came from orphanages and others from the penal system. A few made good and became skippers and eventually owners themselves but for the vast majority it must have been hell.
> Then of course there are the losses amongst the skippers, mates and deck hands, never to return. From 1876-1895, 1112 fishermen were lost off smacks from Grimsby alone.
> Regards
> Steve


Hello Steve,
See attached from BT334/8. You will note that out of 13 deaths recorded on that page 5 or maybe 6 were fishermen, 3 from GY all of whom were lost overboard.
You will also note Thomas Butler age 17 who's address is given as Grimsby Ice Company Home. I think you are correct when you talk about their life being hell.


regards
Roger


----------



## treeve

Fearsome times. Terrifying thought.


----------



## treeve

Hello Richard,
My schedule gives that Scarborogh Records are held at 
County Records Office
Malpas road, Northallerton, North Yorkshire DL7 8AF
website www.north.gov.uk
Fishing Vessel Records for 1869-1988.
Whitby also for 1869-1896 and 1914-1988
Best Wishes, Raymond


----------



## Steve Farrow

Roger Griffiths said:


> Hello Steve,
> See attached from BT334/8. You will note that out of 13 deaths recorded on that page 5 or maybe 6 were fishermen, 3 from GY all of whom were lost overboard.
> You will also note Thomas Butler age 17 who's address is given as Grimsby Ice Company Home. I think you are correct when you talk about their life being hell.
> 
> 
> regards
> Roger


Thank you for your reply Roger, and the attached BT334/8. I sent the relevant name, dates & ships officail number to the Nation Archives and received a reply from 

Maritime History Archive

Memorial University of Newfoundland

St. John's, NL
It seems they hold the crew agreements for the ALPHA but the search fees seem on the high side at $40 plus a charge for each page scanned and emailed or posted. As I am researching this for a friend, I shall leave that decision in his hands. Personally I think I would have to persue this to the end!
Regards
Steve


----------



## birgir

Neptune, Richard Nielsen

Thank you for your reply. I am interested in the business side of the trawling industry, (as well as the ships). What kind of data do you have about the Neptune company?

By the way, it is obvious that the company was wound up at the end of WW1
The ships are sold off, and no new ones replaced them. This has something to do with war-profits taxation. (The model I have in mind is from the aviation industry, the re-incarnation of the Sopwith concern as Hawker).

Birgir Thorisson


----------



## Steve Farrow

Roger Griffiths said:


> Hello Steve,
> See attached from BT334/8. You will note that out of 13 deaths recorded on that page 5 or maybe 6 were fishermen, 3 from GY all of whom were lost overboard.
> You will also note Thomas Butler age 17 who's address is given as Grimsby Ice Company Home. I think you are correct when you talk about their life being hell.
> 
> 
> regards
> Roger


Roger,
Please forgive me but when you posted this attachment, I was so focused on Thomas Butler's loss and wondereing if there was a connection, I completely missed George Butler above him. This is what we have been searching for.........The cir***stances of his loss and where it occurred. You have answered this on both counts!
I shall now visit my friend who is Georges great grandson and produce your do***ent for him.
This triptic is from left to right, Skipper George Butler(lost) his father (illigitimate) The sixth Earl of Wentworth, Thomas Wentworth-Fitzwilliam, and the son of George, William Butler, skipper of the St, Malo.
Many thanks
Steve


----------



## Richard Nielsen

treeve said:


> Hello Richard,
> My schedule gives that Scarborogh Records are held at
> County Records Office
> Malpas road, Northallerton, North Yorkshire DL7 8AF
> website www.north.gov.uk
> Fishing Vessel Records for 1869-1988.
> Whitby also for 1869-1896 and 1914-1988
> Best Wishes, Raymond


Thank you Raymond,

I found the site- it is www.northyorks.gov.uk - must have a trip to Northallerton to have root through the archives.

Has anyone heard of James Johnson who was a Scarborough trawler owner (according to Lloyds' Register)? He had a number of ships c.1920. The ships I can remember off-hand are:

J.W.Johnson
Mary A. Johnson
Polly Johnson
Flo. Johnson

I have a photo of J.W. Johnson which I will post when I work out how and where to do it.

Any information would be most welcome.

Thank you,

Richard


----------



## treeve

Glad you found it - I will update my folio.
If you have the dates, that makes your search all the easier.
The Registers contain a wealth of detail on vessels and on owners.
A quick look .. found a James Johnson vessel of Hull, seems the Bosun
had a run in with the Russians over illegal fishing and was warned he would
be shot next time he was seen. Don't know if this is of your family, though.
All Best, Raymond


----------



## treeve

Launched 1918 as John Aikenhead (Admiralty)
Castle Class (134 ft oa; 125 ft 6in x 23 ft 6 in x 12 ft 9 in hold)
1 shaft recip engine VTE 480 ihp
290 grt
127 nrt
86 hp; 10.5 knots
Built Cook Welton & Gemmel, Beverley
Completed as Fishing Vessel; 
1919 sold J Johnson of Scarborough named Polly Johnson SH171
1922 sold Massey of Hull H322
1939 Req converted to minesweeper
1940 Operation Dynamo (Dunkirk)
29th May sunk Aircraft Attack off Dunkirk

All Best, Raymond


----------



## treeve

Admiralty vessel Thomas Evison eventually found her way to a J W Johnson, presumably your James Johnson? You can find her on the FLOAT database.


----------



## gil mayes

Not quite right Raymond. As AVONDEE (143898) she passed to Peter & J. Johnstone Ltd, Aberdeen, not John W. Johnson, Scarborough who had the BERU (132096). The purchase of ex Admiralty trawlers by the Johnson family (and their backers)was, I suggest, speculative. 
In the mid 1920s James Johnson, Penguin Lodge, Scarborough had the following trawlers owned/managed.
EVERGREEN (116124), 180grt/1903
G. H. Cambridge
SCORPION (98764), 155grt/1891 - broken up 1927
James Johnson Fish Selling Co Ltd
BEN HOPE, ex Crocus (112930), 160grt/1900
SKERNE, ex Sonntag, Rover (98730), 150grt/1891
Peasholm Steam Fishing Co Ltd
EUPHONY, ex Elbe (106753), 165grt/1897
This is a James Johnson trawler from FMHT database.
BETTY JOHNSON (SH50) (1921-1927)
Ad.No.3782. O.N. 143256 290g 127n (later 281g 108n) 125.5 x 23.5 x 12.7 feet
T.3-cyl by Amos & Smith Ltd, Hull

24.9.1918: Launched by Cook, Welton & Gemmell Ltd, Beverley (Yd.No.403) (“Castle” class) for The Admiralty as John Gulipster. 17.4.1919: Completed as a fishing vessel 1919: Sold to J. Johnson, Scarborough. Renamed Betty Johnson (SH50). 1921: Sold to Prince Fletcher Trawlers Ltd, Fleetwood (Harry Melling & P. Fletcher, managers). 1924: In Wyre Dock explosion caused by 1cwt drum of carbide (for lamps) falling from slings into engineroom bilge and bursting open, gas generated ignited by boiler heat. Two men died and three seriously injured. 1927: Sold to Melling Trawlers Ltd, Fleetwood (Henry Melling, manager). 29.12.1927: Renamed Annie Melling (FD168). 1930: Henry Melling ceased to be manager. 12.1931: Sold to Farrows Steam Fishing Co Ltd, Hull. 17.12.1931: Fleetwood registry closed. 18.1.1932: Renamed Andrew Marvel (H399). 23.3.1933: Sold to Hudson Steam Fishing Co Ltd, Hull (Hudson Brothers Trawlers Ltd, managers). 19.12.1935: Sold to Thomas L. Devlin & Sons, Granton (T. L. Devlin, manager). 1936: Renamed Comitatus (GN39). 28.8.1939: Requisitioned for war service and converted for minesweeping duties (P.No. FY.633). 1942: Sold to Mrs E. D. Breen, Edinburgh 9.10.1945: Returned after restoration and survey at Glasson Dock. Sold to Dinas Steam Trawler Co Ltd, Fleetwood. 2.1952: Sold to Queen Steam Fishing Co Ltd, Grimsby. 2.1952: Granton registry closed. 2.1952: Registered at Grimsby (GY228). 19.6.1956: Sold to Van Heyghen Freres S.A., Ghent for demolition.
Gil.


----------



## treeve

Glad you cleared up that one Gil; 
and I am glad that someone has all the gen on James Johnson to help Richard. 
Best Wishes, Raymond


----------



## Roger Griffiths

Richard Nielsen said:


> Has anyone heard of James Johnson who was a Scarborough trawler owner (according to Lloyds' Register)? He had a number of ships c.1920. The ships I can remember off-hand are:
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you,
> 
> Richard


All I have is from Lloyds register 1943/44 
Johnson James
6 West Pier
Scarborough
Scarborough Pure Ice and Cold Storage co. Ltd.
Two fishing vessels owned BERU 1911 195 grt and MACAW 1909 187 grt.

regards
Roger


----------



## gil mayes

By the end of the 1940s, James Johnson, address as supplied by Roger, managed the MACAW for General Discount Trust Ltd. John W. Johnson, same address owned the BERU as previously stated. 

From FMHT database. I would be grateful if anyone could confirm her date of sale for demolition and if possible the breaker.

MACAW (M18) (1912-1914)
O.N. 128745. 187g 69n 110.8 x 21.0 x 11.7 feet
T.3-cyl by W. V. V. Lidgerwood, Coatbridge
Boiler by R. Stephenson & Co Ltd, Hebburn

7.12.1908: Launched by Smith’s Dock Co Ltd, North Shields (Yd.No.393) for Sidney M. Price, Milford; Cornelius C. Morley, Hakin; Edward Gerrish, Stoke Bishop & Frederick R. Greenish, Haverfordwest (Sidney M. Price, manager) as Macaw. 1.1909: Completed. 27.1.1909: Registered at Milford (M18). 7.7.1909: Sold to David Waters, Haverfordwest. 11.1912: Transferred to Fleetwood. 8.1914: Requisitioned for war service and converted for minesweeping duties (Ad.No.145). Returned. 6.9.1919: Sold to Swansea Steam Trawling Co Ltd, Swansea, (Harry E. Rees, manager). 22.12.1921: Bosun, Joseph Shervin died from fractured skull sustained while weighing anchor in rough weather. 26.12.1931: Dragged her anchor in thick fog off Capel Island and went ashore on the Black Rocks between Ballycotton and Garryvoe, Co. Cork. Attended by Ballycotton lifeboat and salvage tug Roode Zee. Refloating unsuccessful. Vessel undamaged. 3.1932: Refloated. 1.4.1932: Arrived Milford. 28.8.1933: Sold to Harry E Rees, Milford Haven. 12.35: Sold to William Gove, Aberdeen. 11.12.1935: Milford registry closed. 12.1935: Registered at Aberdeen (A388). 1942: Sold to James Johnson, Scarborough. 1945: Sold to General Discount Trust Ltd, Scarborough (James Johnson, manager). 1951: Sold for demolition ? 
(Not in 1952-53 LR).


----------



## billblow

Steve
Thats fine found it on MFV Desire BF71 question site as you know thank you. Out of interest I have the pre WW1 Atlas funnel marking from the Lloyds list and it shows blackcap broad yellow band over broad blue band with a red A over, no thin white lines and black funnel body,
Bill


----------



## Charles Madsen

Has anybody heard of the fishing boat LA Madsen that was lost off Iceland in 1949 with the loss of all hands. The skippers name was Ivar Kristian Madsen


----------



## davetodd

Steve Farrow said:


> My turn now! This appeared in the Grimsby Telegraph today. Can anyone identify the vessel? GY 349 is not in Olsen's 1950, 57, 61 or 67 almanacs.
> The coal-fired fish dock tug dates it pre-1964 At first glance, she looks like a seine netter, but she has a funnel and a hooded hatchway on the foredeck on the port side.
> Steve


Whilst re-indexing the photo. collection at Gy Library I found the following:-

GY 349 Katrina Thomsen (at least one photograph)
Added to this is information from Malcolm Stockdale who is my right-hand man for extra info.
O.N. 364919 Built 1944 in Denmark Gt 45 Net 17 Owner V.Thomsen

Regards

Dave


ps to Steve, I was actually looking for a query you raised about adding thumbnails, haven't found it yet!


----------



## Steve Farrow

Thanks for this Dave.............much appreciated.
Steve


----------



## mattarosa

davetodd said:


> Whilst re-indexing the photo. collection at Gy Library I found the following:-
> 
> GY 349 Katrina Thomsen (at least one photograph)
> Added to this is information from Malcolm Stockdale who is my right-hand man for extra info.
> O.N. 364919 Built 1944 in Denmark Gt 45 Net 17 Owner V.Thomsen
> 
> 
> Steve - Katrina Thomsen is in the 1987 Olsen and confirms the details above, except the owner then was Securikey Ltd, Farnborough, which is odd. Farnborough is not very near to the sea!
> 
> Hilary


----------



## Steve Farrow

Hi Hilary,
I have just seen that the Katrina Thomsen is listed in 1984 Olsen's with her owner as Villy J. Thomsen, CLEETHORPES.............much closer to the sea than Farnborough!
Here is the original query from the paper,
Regards
Steve


----------



## billblow

GY 349 in 1978 Olsens with the name Quest built Denmark 1944 but a different gross than is mentioned above. Then owned by Christensen Fishing Company Limited Grimsby. I might be wrong but the photo shown just seems pre the dates we are talking.


----------



## gil mayes

As in many other cases, Official Numbers are the very important in establishing identity. I do not have a 1978 Olsen's but in 1981 O.N. 364919 was GY349 under the name of ZAREPTA, same details as quoted by Hilary et al. By 1984 she was owned by Securikey Ltd, Farnborough, nothing unusual in having ownership registered to a person residing in an inland town. I share billblows doubts about the date of the photograph.
Gil.


----------



## Steve Farrow

I should have remembered this from October last year..................it's the TANANA, GY 349 built in 1953 and lost by stranding at Westray Firth, Orkney in 1958.
You can make out the funnel abaft the wheelhouse.
Steve


----------



## dparkinson7

*Re Polly Johnson*



treeve said:


> Launched 1918 as John Aikenhead (Admiralty)
> Castle Class (134 ft oa; 125 ft 6in x 23 ft 6 in x 12 ft 9 in hold)
> 1 shaft recip engine VTE 480 ihp
> 290 grt
> 127 nrt
> 86 hp; 10.5 knots
> Built Cook Welton & Gemmel, Beverley
> Completed as Fishing Vessel;
> 1919 sold J Johnson of Scarborough named Polly Johnson SH171
> 1922 sold Massey of Hull H322
> 1939 Req converted to minesweeper
> 1940 Operation Dynamo (Dunkirk)
> 29th May sunk Aircraft Attack off Dunkirk
> 
> All Best, Raymond


Polly Johnson was one of 6 M/S trawlers caught by enemy bombers alongside the East Mole 29 May 1940 along with HMS Grenade (destroyer)which was also sunk in the incident. Polly Johnson managed to get away from the Mole under her own steam but sank not far off. 
I have detailed information. If anyone is interested please let me know.

David


----------



## willowbankbear

Has anyone got any info on the pair teams that operated from GY back in the 70`s & 80`s?
Particularly The Leanda, it was BCK registered & paired with the Carl Borum . The skipper of Carl Borum was Riley & the other skipper was Steve ?

The Pairs I remember landing into Wick were Lochearn & Falkenborg, Kronborg & Jasarann, Delvan + Carol Ann, Sarah Thinnesen + Pickering, Wendy Pulfrey + Janet Sate, Coromandel + Frances Bojen, Jean Scott + Sharronelle, Leanda + Carl Borum, Jaqueline Borum+ Trendsetter, Andrew Borum + ?? , Tino + Samantha, Im sure there were a few others .... can anybody remember??

Is Melvin Cox from the Lochearn still alive, he was quite a character


----------



## Steve Farrow

willowbankbear said:


> Has anyone got any info on the pair teams that operated from GY back in the 70`s & 80`s?
> Particularly The Leanda, it was BCK registered & paired with the Carl Borum . The skipper of Carl Borum was Riley & the other skipper was Steve ?
> 
> The Pairs I remember landing into Wick were Lochearn & Falkenborg, Kronborg & Jasarann, Delvan + Carol Ann, Sarah Thinnesen + Pickering, Wendy Pulfrey + Janet Sate, Coromandel + Frances Bojen, Jean Scott + Sharronelle, Leanda + Carl Borum, Jaqueline Borum+ Trendsetter, Andrew Borum + ?? , Tino + Samantha, Im sure there were a few others .... can anybody remember??
> 
> Is Melvin Cox from the Lochearn still alive, he was quite a character


If you look at my posts in the fishing Gallery you will find some of the seiners and pair trawlers you mention.
Sorry to tell you I think Mel Cox passed away last year.
Regards
Steve


----------



## Kerbtrawler

*Alberia GY 588*

Hi All 
Looking for some details on the Alberia
She was owned by Crown SF until 1934 when she transferred to Fleetwood, purchased by Mount SF, Did she retain the GY port Reg?

she later went onto Milford Haven and was renamed Alberic
again did she retain the GY reg and what date did she transfer?

Thanks for the help


----------



## aavh

According to the Steam Trawlers and Liners of Grimsby she was Launched as GY 506 for Crown Steam Fishing. Sold to Portugal May 1910. Registered as GY 588 in November 1910 for Crown Steam Fishing. Sold to Fleetwood May 1934. Lost 1941


----------



## Kerbtrawler

Thanks for that,
Don't suppose you have any details of the portugese sale?

also I have a large gap from 1910 to 1931, any idea's

cheers


----------



## TSJ59

Hello - There's conflicting records for _ALBERIA_ Cook, Welton and Gemmell entry for _ALBERIA GY 506_:
Official No. 127854 Regist'd 17/03/1910 Crown S.F. Co. Ltd, Grimsby.
11/5/1910 Sold to Empreza De Pesca A Vapor Ltda, Portugal, renamed _REO TEJO._
17/5/1919 Sold to Royal Navy as a auxiliary patrol vessel, No. FY 175. renamed _ARCTURUS_ (1918) _ARCTURUS II._
17/05/1919 to Cruz Bros. Gibraltar renamed _ALBERIA_
1920 to Empreza De Pesca A Vapor Ltda, Portugal. 
1928 to Cia Portuguesa De Pesco, Lisbon.
1978 Vessel sold to shipbreakers and broken up.

Cheers, Terry


----------



## gil mayes

From FMHT database. Any corrections/additions gratefully received.
ALBERIA (GY588) (<1913-1934)
O.N. 132091. 286g 112n 130.2 x 23.5 x 12.3 feet 
T.3-cyl by Amos & Smith Ltd, Hull

7.9.1910: Launched by Cochrane & Sons, Selby (Yd.No.474) for Crown Steam Fishing Co Ltd, Grimsby (Messrs Moody & Kelly, managers) as Alberia. 11.1910: Completed. Registered at Grimsby (GY506). 5.1911: Sold to Companhia Portuguesa de Pesca, Lisbon. Registered at Lisbon. 11.1911: Sold to Crown Steam Fishing Co Ltd, Grimsby (George E. J. Moody, manager). Registered at Grimsby (GY588). 1913: Fishing from Fleetwood. 12.1914: Requisitioned for war service and converted for minesweeping duties (Ad.No.768). 1919: Returned (Sir George E. J. Moody, manager). pre1927: Delete manager. 5.1934: Sold to Mount Steam Fishing Co Ltd, Fleetwood (W. M. Kelly, manager). 8.1934: Sold to Alberic Steam Fishing Co Ltd, Fleetwood (C. H. Friswell, manager). Renamed Alberic (GY588). 4.1940: Requisitioned for war service and converted for minesweeping duties (P.No. NR). 1940: R. Neave appointed manager. 3.5.1941: Sank in Scapa Flow after being rammed by destroyer HMS St. Albans (P.No. I.15); all crew lost.
Gil.


----------



## Kerbtrawler

Hi Terry,
thanks for the info about the CWGB boat but its the wrong one 
The one I'm after has the official number of 132091

Thanks anyway

Hi Gil
Thats the fella I was stuck on 
Cheers

cheers


----------



## Kerbtrawler

Just one last point 

I can't seem to locate any details of the incident which took all the lives of the crew, I have checked Lloyds war losses both volumes 1 and 2, its mentioned in Warships of ww2 by Lenton but thats it, Toghill doesn't elaborate any further and same goes for JJ colledge volume 2.

Me thinks it might be a trip to the TNA in London to see what's there, unless anyone here can help

Cheers


----------



## gil mayes

Perhaps we had the location wrong.
From WW2 Admiralty Day-by-Day Diaries.
"3.5.1941 Minesweeping trawler ALBERIC (286grt, T/Lt R M Johnson RNVR) was sunk in an accidental collision with destroyer ST ALBANS in Pentland Firth".
Gil.


----------



## Roger Griffiths

Hello Trevor,
ALBERIC is mentioned in Colledge Vol 2 which gives she was sunk at Scapa.
She would not be in Lloyds war losses or BVLS as these are only concerned with vessels sunk or damaged by enemy action.
Gil what do you make of the attached from returns of Grimsby fishing vessel 1929-33. Reference to M/RG 1305. Was she ever registered at Milford?

regards
Roger


----------



## gil mayes

Roger. As far as we can determine she was never Milford registered, I am not quite sure how this idea has come about. "M/RG 1305" was the authorisation for the name change. Another example I can quickly quote is EDOURD NIERINCK (141962)(FD412) "1924: Sold to Scarisbrick Steam Trawlers (Fleetwood) Ltd, Fleetwood (The Clifton Steam Trawlers Ltd, managers). (M/RG 1480/24) Renamed Edward Walmsley (FD412)". This is lifted from the returns of fishing boats at Fleetwood which you kndly made available to us.
Gil.


----------



## Kerbtrawler

Hi Roger,Gil
I have the reference for the Milford transfer from C Cox Lists
But I can't locate any details about it which might suggest that the entry in the registers was incorrect.

Either way thanks for all this input

cheers


----------



## gil mayes

Trevor. I can see nothing in my copy of Cox for ALBERIA/ALBERIC (Entry 27) that would suggest a Milford transfer, he is virtually the same as our history profile which, like all our records, is, where possible, taken from original sources. Anyway if you are happy that you have the correct vessel details, that is the main thing.
Gil.


----------



## Kerbtrawler

Sorry Gil you are quite correct, I'm going senile in my old age(==D)


----------



## Richard Nielsen

Richard Nielsen said:


> Thank you Raymond,
> 
> I found the site- it is www.northyorks.gov.uk - must have a trip to Northallerton to have root through the archives.
> 
> Has anyone heard of James Johnson who was a Scarborough trawler owner (according to Lloyds' Register)? He had a number of ships c.1920. The ships I can remember off-hand are:
> 
> J.W.Johnson
> Mary A. Johnson
> Polly Johnson
> Flo. Johnson
> 
> I have a photo of J.W. Johnson which I will post when I work out how and where to do it.
> 
> Any information would be most welcome.
> 
> Thank you,
> 
> Richard


Now uploaded in the fishing vessels section of the gallery.

Richard


----------



## mattarosa

*Gy20*

Happy Sunday, everyone.

Is this Leonora? 

I think you have painted Leonora, haven't you, Steve?

Grimsby Fishing Vessels has not been very active lately. I'll have to see if I can find any stories to get you all talking again!

Hilary


----------



## Steve Farrow

Hi Hilary,
This Leonora was GY 20 but was owned by Edwin Bacon and there funnels were painted black with two red bands seperated by a white band, so this does not fit the picture. However the photo has been 'hand painted' so the numbers may have been added. The other trawler to be registered as GY 20 was the Hypatia, built in 1896 and sold to Hartlepool in 1899 and was owned by Rushworth St Fg Co., but the funnel colours are wrong for this also!

Here is the text I wrote to accompany the painting...........
LEONORA Built just after the turn of the last century, the Grimsby trawler LEONORA was typical of the early steam trawler designed to replace the ketch rigged (or dandy rig) sailing smacks. Although the smacks were superb sea ships and handled well in most conditions, they were no match for the speed and reliability of the steam trawler, which could spend more time on the fishing grounds not having to rely on the wind and tides.
Some owners had the foresight to invest heavily in building steam trawlers and one of these men was Edwin Bacon who founded Lindsey Trawlers. This family business was handed down through several generations until the industry could no longer survive and the last vessels were sold in the 1980’s.
Edwin Bacon had the LEONORA built by Cochrane’s Shipyard in Selby Yorkshire in 1904 along with other ships that were almost identical i.e. the AQUARIUS, the LEO, the LINDSEY the ORMONDE and many more.
Most of these trawlers were requisitioned by the Admiralty in both world wars and the losses were great. The LEONORA escaped this duty and was left to continue her work of catching fish. On 16th April 1940, she sailed from Grimsby for what was to be her last voyage. Unfortunately she met her fate in the North Sea while working off Scarborough. The exact cause of her loss was not known and she was listed as missing with all hands since the 16th April 1940. It was generally assumed that it would have been the result of hitting a mine.
Her wreck was found by Skipper Fred Normandale and members of Scarborough’s sub-aqua club after a tip-off by Grimsby skipper Bill Hardie junior while working sixty miles East of the town in 1982.
Five wrecks of trawlers were found in close proximity, and the LEONORA was lying on her port side in about twenty fathoms of water and in surprisingly good condition. The bridge had gone, but no other damage was visible.
Two of the other vessels were the trawlers PENN and the HERCULES from Grimsby.
The missing crew of the LEONORA were as follows:
Skipper, Ernest William Garrod (49) of Stanley St, Grimsby.
Mate, Charles Stanley Swallow, 25, Grafton St. Grimsby.
Third hand, N.E. Loraine (40). Kingsway, Cleethorpes.
Deckhand, R.A. Newman, (18) Phelps St. Cleethorpes.
Deckhand, S. Jackson, Grafton St.
Trimmer, Ernest Philpots, (36). Barcroft St. Cleethorpes.
Cook, John Holmes, (56). Wellington St. Grimsby.
Chief engineer, Walter Cook, (62), David St. Grimsby.
Second engineer, George Hallam, (52) Tiverton St. Cleethorpes

The painting depicts her returning home from the North Sea having passed the Spurn Lighthouse and making her way to the Grimsby fish docks.

217 gross tons, 80 nett tons, engines 90 horse power.
115 feet loa. 21.5 feet beam, 11.5 feet draught.
Official builders No. 118926
I painted this trawler for Charles Newman who told me he waited at the bus stop outside the Clee Park pub in Cleethorpes for his brother to return home. He kept returning to the same bus stop ...,but of course, his brother never came home.

Steve


----------



## billblow

Hilary Steve
The hand tinted postcard is correct for once. The white LY on a red flag on a white band was the original Lindsey funnel livery. Steve there is in the Central Library a micro film of the 1907 Olsen's coloured plates and this is clearly seen. 
E Bacon also had the Dolphin S F Co Ltd which had a Flag of red white red horizontal bands and I guess but not sure they at some time around 1913 when Dolphin disappears the red white red horizontal bands of Lindsey and Arctic appear
Bill


----------



## billblow

Steve 
You can see the old Lindsey and Dolphin liveries on the mysticseaport site of the Lloyds Book of House Flags & Funnels. Dolphin is plate 409 Lindsey plate 595. Save you going up town
Bill


----------



## Steve Farrow

Bill,
I can't thank you enough for pointing this out............and the Lloyds Book of House Flags & Funnels. Life is one big learning curve, and then you.............
Regards

Steve


----------



## Steve Farrow

I have looked at the web site of Mystic Seaport and found the house flags and funnel markings..............this must have been a well kept secret! Absolutely brilliant and thanks again Bill
Steve


----------



## mattarosa

billblow said:


> Hilary Steve
> The hand tinted postcard is correct for once.
> 
> So it is the Leonora?
> 
> Thanks very much for clearing this up, Bill.
> 
> Hilary


----------



## Roger Griffiths

Just a snippet.
The full names of those lost on LEONORA from here last logbook.

regards
Roger


----------



## McFlett

I notice there was some discussion earlier on an unknown GY 349 which was solved. I would be most interested if anyone knows of any information regarding the wooden steam drifter GY 349 BLOOM. All the info I have is at the bottom of this page http://www.bodangora.com/mcibb/listcomp.html


----------



## Roger Griffiths

McFlett said:


> I notice there was some discussion earlier on an unknown GY 349 which was solved. I would be most interested if anyone knows of any information regarding the wooden steam drifter GY 349 BLOOM. All the info I have is at the bottom of this page http://www.bodangora.com/mcibb/listcomp.html


All I have is O/N 125845, 87grt, registered in GY 24/12/1923. GY registry closed 29/12/1934 broken up. Owned 1929 Garrett and Jeffs
I am sure others will give more details.

regards
Roger


----------



## Steve Farrow

mattarosa said:


> billblow said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hilary Steve
> The hand tinted postcard is correct for once.
> 
> So it is the Leonora?
> 
> Thanks very much for clearing this up, Bill.
> 
> Hilary
> 
> 
> 
> I think we can say that this is definately the LEONORA, pre-1913....................With thanks to Bill!
> I have posted the painting of her in the Gallery
> regards
> Steve
Click to expand...


----------



## Steve Farrow

Roger Griffiths said:


> Just a snippet.
> The full names of those lost on LEONORA from here last logbook.
> 
> regards
> Roger


Many thanks for the full names Roger, I can now add these to what I have
Regards
Steve


----------



## Steve Farrow

McFlett said:


> I notice there was some discussion earlier on an unknown GY 349 which was solved. I would be most interested if anyone knows of any information regarding the wooden steam drifter GY 349 BLOOM. All the info I have is at the bottom of this page http://www.bodangora.com/mcibb/listcomp.html


If you would like me to email a photo of the BLOOM, then please email me.

[email protected] 

Regards
Steve


----------



## McFlett

Steve Farrow said:


> If you would like me to email a photo of the BLOOM, then please email me.
> 
> [email protected]
> 
> Regards
> Steve


That is most kind of you Steve.


----------



## mattarosa

Roger Griffiths said:


> Just a snippet.
> The full names of those lost on LEONORA from here last logbook.
> 
> regards
> Roger


I certainly seem to have woken this thread up by posting a simple query and much interesting info has been posted and exchanged.

Roger, I have noticed before that you seem to be a very experienced researcher. Can you tell us anything more about logbooks? What exactly are they? Are they extant for all trawlers or just lost trawlers? What information do they contain? Where can they be accessed? etc etc

Hope you don't mind me asking, but I am sure a lot of people would be interested in this.

Perhaps you could write a book in the Society of Genealogists series "My Ancestor was a....". Yours would be called My Ancestor was a Trawlerman.

I am very good at thinking up books other people could write. Ask Steve Farrow, I have thought up several he could write!

Hilary


----------



## mattarosa

Steve Farrow said:


> mattarosa said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have posted the painting of her in the Gallery
> regards
> Steve
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks, Steve. Since the paintings that you do are commissioned by people with a connection to whatever trawler they are asking you to paint, I think you must get a lot of invaluable information that probably would be otherwise lost. You are always very generous in sharing this info with others that are interested (thank you). And, by the way, it's another book you could write:
> 
> "Paint My Trawler" by Steve Farrow.
> 
> I can already see it sitting on the shelf at all the bookshops in Grimsby, with one of your paintings on the cover!
> 
> Hilary
Click to expand...


----------



## Steve Farrow

Hilary,
There are those who try to write books and those who try to paint pictures..............I just attempt to keep in the latter!!!

But seriously, I find it very satisfying when I can help people who in some cases have been looking for information for many years. If it is sitting on the hard drive of my PC or in a closed book in my book case, then it's good to delve into files or pages and pass on what I can. This applies to many kind members on this great site........if time and thought can help someone who maybe researching the loss of relatives or of certain ships, then I will sit here all day! I have just given a CD to Grimsby library of all the J. S. Doig's photograph's that were loaned to me by Jack Bell. Also a CD of seine netters I have taken over the years and one of some trawler photo's. All of these will be available to the public in the near future.
As you know, I have a painting published each month in the local Grimsby Telegraph 'Bygones' but writing the tale to accompany these can be almost as time consuming as the painting! And you want me to write a book! Ha!
Here is an example of the text to accompany the CAMBRIDGESHIRE 
CAMBRIDGESHIRE

In September 1935, the new steam trawler CAMBRIDGESHIRE joined the Grimsby firm of Shire Trawlers who had her built at Smith’s Dock in Middlesborough. At the launching ceremony, ten year old Margaret Cook, from Grimsby, smashed a champagne bottle across her bows. She was the youngest person ever to have christened a vessel at the yard. She came to do the honours through her father Mr. Frank Cook was one of the partners and a director of Markham Cook Ltd for whom she was built ( Shire Trawlers ). 
Her first skipper was an Icelander Helgi Johannsen, a popular man and one of the ports top earners. 
Dennis Roberts, who was later to become an executive member ( and trawler owner ) with Ross Group, remembers one of her early trips well. “The weather was quite good on the way out but we took a battering on the way back,” he recalled. Nevertheless it was another good trip for the Cambridgeshire, consistently a good money earner. But her crew had to work hard for it!
“The skipper started us fishing at midnight on December 23/24 and we were at it with only a two hour break in 36 hours,” he said. “ Of those two hours, half-an-hour was for our Christmas dinner and the remainder was for a brief rest.”
He remembered another Bear Island trip, when they caught over 3,000 kits in just three days fishing and was back in port in just twelve days.
The Cambridgeshire often landed catches in excess of 3,000 kits in those days, but things were to change dramatically.
With the outbreak of the Second World War, she was requisitioned by the Admiralty, and was soon to be in the thick of things, for one afternoon in June 1940, she dragged on board no fewer than 1.009 men, survivors of the troopship LANCASTRIA, which had been bombed and sunk while evacuating British troops from Brittany. More than 4,000 British soldiers drowned after the 16,000 ton LANCASTRIA was repeatedly bombed and went down just after leaving St. Nazaire. Within minutes the sea was filled with soldiers struggling to stay afloat.
Some were badly burned, and many more coated in oil from the sinking liner. The only vessel to come to the rescue was H.M.T. CAMBRIDGESHIRE, formerly one of the most successful of the distant water vessels to operate from Grimsby.
The CAMBRIDGESHIRE, stripped of her former crew and fitted with the latest asdic equipment, was now a man of war, no matter how humble. But that afternoon, she more than earned her keep. There were still Grimsby men on board her…..Her skipper was Billy Euston and her chief engineer was George Beasley. Also in her crew was Cleethorpes man Charles Board.
Dodging repeated air attacks, she spent several hours scooping men from the water. At one time they were packed like sardines in the engine room, and the fish room, the stokehold and on deck. Eventually there was not enough room for another man on the ship, which was by now dangerously low in the water. All the lifeboats, rafts and lifejackets were thrown overboard to help the men still floundering in the sea. Then the CAMBRIDGESHIRE headed away from the scene of the disaster.
She went alongside the transport JOHN HOLT and transferred her biggest ever catch, but her work was far from over. That night she crept back into St Naziere and took off the entire British and French High Command who had escaped the German Army pouring through France. Among those taken back to Plymouth that night was the Commander of the Second British Army Corps. General Sir Alan Brooke, together with other senior British and French Officers.
No details of this action were release to the public until after the war, for fear of destroying morale.
The CAMBRIDGESHIRE carried on with her duties and when stationed at Swansea, answered an S.O.S from a torpedoed ‘Banana boat’ in the Bristol Channel. On arrival at the scene, only an up-turned life-boat could be seen and faint cries coming from within. When it was righted, six very lucky and frightened crew men were found.
The ship survived the war and after being sold to Hull in 1947, she was re-named the KINGSTON SAPPHIRE.
She was scrapped in 1954.

Regards

Steve


----------



## billblow

Great stuff Steve.
Steve anything on my question did the vessels that Dennis Roberts owned within the Ross empire have anything different on their Ross Group funnel livery? as mentioned by Jimmy Sheader.
Bill


----------



## Roger Griffiths

mattarosa said:


> Roger, I have noticed before that you seem to be a very experienced researcher. Can you tell us anything more about logbooks? What exactly are they? Are they extant for all trawlers or just lost trawlers? What information do they contain? Where can they be accessed? etc etc
> 
> Hope you don't mind me asking, but I am sure a lot of people would be interested in this.
> 
> Perhaps you could write a book in the Society of Genealogists series "My Ancestor was a....". Yours would be called My Ancestor was a Trawlerman.
> 
> I am very good at thinking up books other people could write. Ask Steve Farrow, I have thought up several he could write!
> 
> Hilary



Hello Hilary
My ancestor was a Turf Accountant. Posh name for a Bookie! They reckon there is book in everyone, it's just having the time and inclination to do it.

FISHING VESSEL LOGBOOKS
Before the Merchant Shipping (Fishing Boats) Act 1883 records of fishermen and fishing boats were lumped in with the general merchant shipping and seamen records.
The 1883 act decreed among other things such as certification of skippers and mates that fishing boats must be numbered and lettered, have official papers and be entered on a separate register. The act also said that proper crew agreements and logbooks should also be kept.
Logbooks and crew agreements are usually stored together. In the case of fishing vessels over 25 tons they are for a period of six months as opposed to yearly for merchant vessels. There are two major repositories where these do***ents are stored The National Archive at Kew, London and the Memorial University of Newfoundland. Kew contains 1914- 1918 and 1939 -1950 plus samples from other years. MUN contains most of the others which have survived. Lots have been destroyed. There are also earlier ones in local archives. 
Search for logbooks via ships official number. Their primary advantage for researchers is that they give the names and address's of crew members and they record specific incidents. (see attached from the logbook of DANDARA) However when a vessel is lost then so is the logbook but in most cases a copy of the crew list is kept onshore. (see attached re WIGMORE which is presented on a Merchant vessel Logbook. I think there must have been a wartime shortage in Grimsby as the LEONORA'S is the same) Logbooks are not definitive and need to be used with other original sources such as the vessels registration do***ents, landing books, etc so that a clear picture can be obtained. One of the problems with fishing vessel records especially online and publications such as Cox and Parker is that mistakes are made and then perpetrated over again until they almost become fact.
For a much better explanation on archival material regarding fishing vessels, read Chapter four of MERCHANT SHIPPING AND SEAMEN ISBN 1 873162 49 9 by Kelvin Smith and the Watts brothers. It's not comprehensive but it is the best around.

regards
Roger


----------



## mattarosa

Roger Griffiths said:


> FISHING VESSEL LOGBOOKS
> 
> Roger
> Thanks very much for all that useful information and for the examples. Funnily enough, I have done research at Kew and obtained log books from Newfoundland many years ago, but that was for a passenger steamer that went between Hartlepool and Hamburg, and it didn't spring to mind that the sources would be the same for fishing boats.
> 
> I find it very difficult to do anything more than dabbling at the moment because I have a very demanding full time job, but when I retire I hope to get on to some of these things, and your information will be very useful.
> 
> Many thanks for taking the time and the trouble.
> 
> Believe it or not, I've never been into a bookies.
> 
> Hilary


----------



## Steve Farrow

Bill,
I have just been speaking to a friend of mine, Mally Stockdale, who thinks (90%) that Dennis Roberts ships had a red flag as opposed to the green of Ross's. Personally I can't remember, but he is usually right!

Steve


----------



## billblow

Steve
We might be getting near to an answer. It does seem like there was something different occuring. Jim Sheader who mentioned it also told me about Dennis Roberts taking the Ross Falcon to Iceland to try out a new type of French 50ft Trawl and then flying home and leaving Jim Gladwell to bring the Falcon home. Any way it would be nice to know 100% about the funnel livery.
Bill


----------



## Steve Farrow

In "The Final Years of the Side Trawler" (Grimsby Trawlers) by Paul King and Steve Pulfrey, the Ross Falcon's trip to Iceland is covered on pages 96-99.
Steve


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## Supern

I am very interested in the Grimbsy Trawlers my Uncle went to sea on them for years and years Norman Shaw. My great grandfather was a skipper and my other uncle's family owned the first freezing works in Grimsby. My Great Grandfather on my other side was harbour master at Boston. I was born in Grimsby and I come from a long line sea people, hence I married a merchant seamen and love the sea.

My cousin in Grimsby is tracing people in our family that went to sea.


----------



## mattarosa

*The Northern somethings*

I haven't contributed much of late as have been rather short of free time. I noticed Steve and Nicolina have posted excellent pictures of the Northern somethings (thanks to both of them), so I thought I would have a look in the Times to see if there was anything interesting. 

I think these trawlers came to England as wartime reparations from Germany, but although I have read a lot about the conferences in Yalta and then Potsdam at which wartime reparations were decided, I didn't see anything specific about trawlers, so I turned to looking for items and stories about the individual vessels. I will start to post these now. I apologise if I have posted any of these before as I can't really remember what I have posted in the past. Hope there will be something of interest to someone anyway.
Hilary


----------



## mattarosa

*Northern Crown*

Friday, Oct 12, 1956
Wrecked Trawler's Crew Saved 
Rescue Vessel Guided by US aircraft

The owners of the 804-ton Grimsby trawler, Northern Crown, which stranded on rocks off the south-west coast of Iceland yesterday morning, later received messages by telephone that the crew of 20 and the skipper, Colin Newton, of Cleeethorpes, were safe.
The messages stated that the trawler's SOS was picked up by an Icelandic gunboat in Reykjavik and the Icelandic fisheries protection vessel Thor went in search. An American aircraft also flew out and guided the Thor to the trawler.
By that time the trawler's engine room was flooded and her two lifeboats had been washed away. The skipper advised the crew to take to their inflatable rubber life-rafts and all were picked up unharmed. When the Thor left for Reykjavik the trawler was gradually sinking. 
The Northern Crown, owned by Northern Trawlers Ltd, was built in 1953. She left Grimsby for Iceland last Saturday.

***************************

Monday, Oct 22, 1956
Life-Saving Equipment For Trawlers 

In a letter to the Times from J Croft Baker, President of the British Trawler Federation dated 19 October on the subject of Life Saving Equipment for Trawlers, he mentions the Northern Crown, saying

... Only last week the big Grimsby trawler Northern Crown struck a reef south of Iceland in bad weather and sank in deep water two hours later. Her full crew of 20 men saved themselves in two life-rafts after the lifeboats had been swept away...

The letter mentions that in 1955 nearly 100 trawlermen were lost at sea in the sinking and stranding of 25 British fishing vessels and that in this year (1956) three trawlers had been lost, two from Grimsby and one from Hull, and that in no case was there a single casualty. Croft Baker argues that this is due to the inflatable life-rafts now carried.

Also mentioned is a report by the Medical Research Council called The Hazards to Men in Ships Lost at Sea 1940-44. Has anyone ever seen this? It is a wartime report, but obviously trawlermen continue to face those hazards in peacetime.


Hilary


----------



## mattarosa

*Northern Foam*

An exciting story about Northern Foam


Wednesday, Sep 03, 1958
Iceland Sailors Board British Trawler 
Frigate Regains Control After Rescue Dash, Dramatic Exchange Of Messages

Orders to resist all boarding-parties as vigorously as possible were radioed to skippers of British trawlers in the Icelandic 12-mile fishery zone by the frigate Eastbourne after the first determined attempt today by Icelandic gunboats to take over British vessels. Mr Frank Pitts, skipper of the Cape Campbell, at once ordered his crew to assemble all implements and axe handles that could be used to repel boarders. He gave his chief engineer instructions for immobilizing the ship if necessary.
Ten miles from the Cape Campbell and 6.5 miles east of Hornesness, the Grimsby trawler Northern Foam was the first to be approached. At 8.30 am she radioed that an Icelandic gunboat was on either side of her. The Eastbourne replied: "Resist vigorously and immobilize your ship". Then from the Northern Foam came this message: "If you do not hear from me you will know they have got into the wireless room. They are coming towards us, about 10 men in a boat. 
Five minutes later the wireless operator reported that five Icelanders had boarded the trawler and wanted the skipper to go on board the gunboat. The skipper had refused to leave his ship. At 9.10 the Northern Foam sent this message: "I am shut in the wireless room. The two gunboats are alongside. We are not moving. The men are not armed." The Eastbourne replied: "Can you get away even with the men on board? We are approaching as quickly as possible at 25 knots."
The Northern Foam - "We cannot move. We shall wait for you to come alongside. The gunboats are Thor and Maria Julia. There are two Icelanders on the bridge, one on each side of the skipper. They are putting an officer onboard with a haversack. I cannot see what is in it. Thor is sending some more men on board. That means 10 in all. They are taking the ship over by force."
The Eastbourne - "Do not let the ship move. Immobilize her." Northern Foam - "I think we are moving. I am out of communication with the bridge."
At 10.30 a message from the Northern Foam reported: "We have now stopped again. They have stopped all voice tubes. Will you hurry aboard please? I have shut myself up in the wireless room." The Eastbourne - "You are doing a grand job. This is the Commodore speaking."
At 10.42 the Eastbourne reported that she was parleying with the Thor and that the Maria Julia had left and appeared to be making for another trawler. The Eastbourne had sent a party on board the Northern Foam and they were now in control of her.
The Grimsby trawler Lifeguard reported at 11.40 that the Maria Julia was trying to board her but she was resisting. "The skipper is down on the deck helping the lads to resist arrest. The skipper has just yelled to the gunboat that he does not intend to be boarded. Gunboat has sheared off. While alongside she holed one of her bulwarks".
This evening the Hull trawler Loch Doon was hailed by the Thor and told to follow her to the nearest harbour. The Loch Doon replied, putting it politely: "Go away and leave us alone. You have caused us enough trouble."
The Thor left as the Eastbourne approached.


----------



## mattarosa

*Northern Foam*

Wednesday, Sep 03, 1958
Instructions From London 
An Icelandic Report On Use Of Force 

The Icelandic coastguard service reported this morning that an Icelandic patrol boat had put six unarmed sailors on board the Grimsby trawler Northern Foam off the east coast. The trawlermen made as though to resist but changed their minds, said the report. Soon the British frigate Eastbourne came up and ordered the Icelandic sailors to abandon the trawler but this they refused to do.
The British "Captain Anderson" then went on board the Icelandic patrol boat for consultations. The conversation between the captains was recorded and Captain Anderson was said to have promised to seek instructions from London whether to take the sailors off by force. Soon afterwards he sent men on board and removed the Icelanders by force.
At this time, the report continued, the Icelandic patrol boat warned the British frigate that according to exact sextant computation all three ships were within the four-mile limit recognized by Britain, but Captain Anderson went ahead nevertheless. 
Other Icelandic sailors, said the report, tried to board another British trawler near by, but the trawler crew resisted, using crowbars, clubs, hot water, hoses, etc. The Icelandic sailors gave up the attempt.
Reporting yesterday to the Admiralty, Commodore Barry Anderson, in command of the fishery protection squadron, said he had discussed with the captain of the Thor the next steps to be taken after a Royal Navy boarding party had been put on the trawler Northern Foam. The Icelandic captain apparently refused to take back on board his ship the members of his boarding party. Commodore Anderson thereupon decided to remove them and they were taken from the trawler to the Eastbourne "as guests". 
An Admiralty spokesman emphasized that reports from the Eastbourne made it clear that no violence of force had been used on either side. "We also have a statement that the incident occurred outside the four-mile limit" he said.
The incident took place in dense fog, in latitutude 63 deg. 13 north, longitude 13 deg.15 west. The captain of the Eastbourne is Lieutenant-Commander R C Mayne. The skipper of the Northern Foam (238 tons) is Mr J Crockwell, a Newfoundlander who now lives in Cleethorpes. All his crew come from Grimsby or Cleethorpes. The Northern Foam is owned by Northern Trawlers Ltd.


----------



## mattarosa

*Northern Foam*

There are lots more mentions of the Northern Foam, probably all connected to this incident. I will try to post some more stories later, but now, sadly, I have run out of time.

Hope you are all having a good weekend. It is very sunny here.

Hilary


----------



## mattarosa

*Northern Dawn*

I decided to do just one more because it is a little one.

Friday, Nov 13, 1936
Casualty Reports

Fleetwood, Nov 12
Four men from Spanish s. Mari, bound from Workington to Barry Dock, left steamer in small boat for supplies from Isle of Man. Could not afterwards find Mari and men picked up by trawler Northern Dawn and landed at Fleetwood. Small boat swamped.


I am puzzled by this one as obviously this can't have been a reparation trawler as the war hadn't even started yet.


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## birgir

Hello Hilary.

I think we discussed this some long time ago. The origins of the Northern trawlers has nothing whatsoever to do with war reparations, but rather Nazi economic policies. They sharply reflated the depressed economy with unlimited spending on armament, and related infrastructure. In order to maintain their overvalued mark, they imposed sharp controls over foreign trade, going from free trade to a barter system. The German boom was highly profitable to private enterprize, including Unilever, but they could not take the profits out of Germany because of the controls. Unilever then thought up a brilliant scheme to get value out of Germany. They ordered 15 big trawlers, (the Northerns), a fleet of whalers (with names prefixed Southern ...), a whale factory ship, and a fleet of tankers. Thus German shipyards built ships, paid for by Unilever´s german profits, the ships were moved to UK and eventually sold there. All these ships proved to be valuable assets during WW2. That the ships did not find immediate buyers may have something to do with the overvaluation of the German Reichsmark, which was held at an artificial level, that was far out of touch with reality. Thus German products were priced out of world markets, and the paper value of the ships in pounds, using official exchange rate, was far too high, compared with ships prices in Britain.

Birgir Thorisson.


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## mattarosa

Birgir
Many thanks for the explanation. Obviously I had completely the wrong idea in my head, but you have set me straight now.
Hilary


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## mattarosa

*Olsen 1938*

I have a big favour to ask. Does anyone have the 1938 edition of Olsen's Almanack and would be prepared to let me have a scan or a photocopy of the very last page? I think there would only be three or four trawlers on it. This page is missing from the copy held in Grimsby library.

Hope someone can help.
Hilary


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## mattarosa

*Olsen 1938*

I mean the very last page of the trawler list, not of the almanack itself.
Thanks.


----------



## treeve

*Alfred Bannister vessels 1900-1919*

I have been trying to trace my great uncle Charles Forward, 
between the time he moved from Salford to Hull, and when
he lost his life on the THEBAN GY 937 in 1919. I have his
home address and the fact that his son had been mortally injured
previously on HMS LYNX. Terry has very kindly informed me that
Charles (senior) was on NORTHUMBRIA GY 169 in 1911. In the process,
I found that there was no list of Alfred Bannister’s vessels as such.

I have “Charles Bernard Cox” on order, 
but I have assembled the following.

Vessels owned by Alfred Bannister or subsidiaries.
Period 1900-1919
Alfred Bannister Trawlers Ltd 
East Anglia Steam Fishing Company Ltd EASFCo
Forward Steam Fishing Company Ltd. FSFCo
Spurn Steam Fishing Company SSFCo

Algoma; SpurnSFCo; GY 6.
Andes; GY 5.
Argentina; GY 566. NICA
Bernicia; EastAngliaSFCo; 1910 GY 473.
Brittannia; 1910 GY 410.
Buzzard;II GY 825.
Camenes; GY 531
Dee; GY 513.
Derwent; GY 525.
Don; GY 517. NICA
Dovey; GY 425. NICA
Edinboro Castle; GY 1285
Ephraim ? GY ????
Eulalia (Ocana) GY 273
Ferret; GY 438 NICA
Frances GY 903
Irwell; GY 1176 NICA
Kalso; 1910 GY 725
Kestrel; GY 831
Kuno; 1910 GY 1129 NICA
Mercia; EASFCo; 1910 GY 1212
Napier; GY 597 NICA
Northumbria; EASFCo; GY 169 – Charles Forward (Deck Hand) 1911.
Northward; ForwardSFCo; 1910 GY 110
Onward II; FSFCo; 1910 GY 87
Ophir (II); 1910 GY 171
Orizaba; 1910 GY 356
Ostero; GY 200
Othello; 1910 GY 333
Saxon II (1894); GY 722 NICA
Sir James Reckitt; GY 1203 NICA
Southward; GY 288
Sylvia; GY 1112
Teuton; 1900 GY 795
Videro; GY 980 NICA
Wessex; EASFCo; 1910 GY???? NICA

Please can anyone confirm this list, add any Registrations.
NICA = No information currently available (as far as I am concerned!)

Best Wishes, Raymond


----------



## TSJ59

Raymond - At first glance _Wessex_ was GY.1231. Cannot find _Ephraim_ or anything close to it!

Cheers, Terry


----------



## Kerbtrawler

Ephraim was a Fleetwood boat but went to Bannister some time between 1908 and 1913 when she went french owners she's not shown in the Cox records


----------



## treeve

Thanks Terry ... I have a few now to add to my GY list.
and that is the Ephraim that I have Tevor, she probably kept her FD reg, 
Best Wishes, Raymond


----------



## Roger Griffiths

Hello all,
I have EPHRAIM O/N 127564 FD218 on FD register 22/8/1908 sold French 6/8/1913. Gil Mayes will have here full SP.


regards
Roger


----------



## Steve Farrow

Raymond,
Charles Cox has the Saxon 11, built as the Saxon and first registered in November 1894. Built by Cook, Welton & Gemmel, Hull.
119 gross tons,37 nett tons, 88.5' long,(LBP?) 20.1 beam, 10.7'd Off no.104190
Owner Onward St. Fg. Co. 
January 1915 Saxon 11. May 1920.........North Shields.

Regards
Steve


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## treeve

Thank you Roger & Steve. 
All Best, Raymond


----------



## treeve

Many thanks to Bill for sending the complete Bannister list via email.
Best Wishes, Raymond


----------



## gil mayes

From FMHT database. As always, grateful for any corrections/additions, particularly her fate.
EPHRAIM (FD218) (1908-1911) 
O.N. 127564. 260g (246g) 101n (94n) 125.0 x 22.0 x 12.2 feet
T.3-cyl by Shields Engineering Co Ltd, North Shields

30.6.1908: Launched by Smith’s Dock Co Ltd, North Shields (Yd.No.381) for West Coast Steam Fishing Co Ltd, Fleetwood (J. E. Rushworth, Grimsby, manager) as Ephraim . 22.8.1908: Registered at Fleetwood(FD218). 8.1908: Completed. 1911: Sold to Alfred Bannister (Trawlers) Ltd, Grimsby. 1913: Sold to Soc. de Pécheries de la Mediterranée, Marseilles (J. Arman, manager). 6.8.1913: Fleetwood registry closed. 1913: Renamed Marie Frédéric. Registered at Marseilles. FATE pre 1924.
Gil.


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## treeve

Thanks Gil, excellent.
My copy of Cox has arrived today ... were they all signed by him?
Raymond


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## mattarosa

Raymond
Although I am not able to lay my hands on it right now, I am pretty sure my copy of Cox is not signed.
Hilary


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## treeve

Hi Hilary, hmm, seems I have gotten a bargain.
Best Wishes, Raymond


----------



## mattarosa

*Brandur GY111*

May 01, 1967

Iceland court puts skipper in custody 
Reykjavik, April 30
Mr Bernard Newton, skipper of the Grimsby trawler, Brandur, was today remanded in custody after being brought back to Reykjavik by an Icelandic patrol boat. He had left port early yesterday morning with two Icelandic police guards on board the trawler, while a charge of poaching within the Icelandic fishing limits was still being considered by the court.
The Brandur's return to Reykjavik last night ended an extensive six-hour sea and air search for the ship.
The police guards said they were in the skipper's cabin with the bosun when they heard the winches working and the ship moving.
When they tried to leave the cabin they discovered the door was locked, they said. Having kicked it open they rushed to the bridge, and demanded that the ship be stopped, but they were told that the skipper was in command, and they must not interfere.
As soon as the ship had left port, said the police, her registration number, GY111, was painted over with white paint to read HU525 on the side, and 
HU252 on the funnel. Then all the lights were switched off.
Although harbour guards and pilots saw the trawler leave, nobody realised what was happening as trawlers are permitted to leave the port without the aid of pilots.
It was not until about 7 am yesterday that a search for the vessel began.
An aircraft sighted the trawler at 11.28, and soon afterwards the patrol boat, Odinn, reached her. When one of the policemen pulled the engine telegraph lever to stop at 12.06 the skipper did not object. The ship then turned round and headed back for Reykjavik, where she arrived at about 9.30 pm.
The Brandur had been lying in Reykjavik harbour since early Tuesday pending investigation of alleged poaching off the south-west coast of Iceland. The skipper's defence was that while fishing outside the limit he had got a heavy object in the trawl. Fearing that this might be a mine he had used the greatest care in pulling it in, with the result that the trawler drifted inside the limit, and was apprehended by a patrol boat. The heavy object proved to be a rock.
The trawler had not been put formally under arrest, although the ship's papers had been seized by the examining magistrate.
Mr Newton told reporters on his return here today that he had intended to go far out to sea, and then take a southerly course. "I was desperate. I hoped to fool the Icelanders by taking a northerly course and by changing the registration number on my ship."

May 04, 1967
Grimsby trawler hearing ends 
Reykjavik May 3
The Icelandic state prosecutor today brought an additional indictment against Mr Bernard Newton, skipper of the Grimsby trawler Brandur, of having by force and threats of violence left Reykjavik harbour on Saturday morning while court proceedings for infringement of the fishing limit were still pending.
The hearing of the case ended today, and the court is expected to give judgment on Friday.
Skipper Newton admitted in court today that he had locked the Icelandic police guards in his cabin and repainted the registration numbers on his trawler. In defence, he stated that he had not been formally ordered to stay in the harbour.

May 06, 1967
Iceland court convicts skipper 
Reykjavik, May 6

Bernard Newton, skipper of the Grimsby trawler, Brandur, was today sentenced to three months' imprisonment for having unlawfully left harbour while a case against him for alleged poaching was in progress.
He was also found Guilty of unlawful fishing inside the Icelandic fishing limit, and fined 300,000 kronur (about £3,000). The catch and gear, valued at 383,000 kronur, were confiscated.
A surety of £10,000 was set to allow Mr Newton and his ship to leave Iceland pending an appeal to the Supreme Court.
Mr Newton telephone to Weelsby Trawlers Ltd last night to say he would put out to sea and not go home to Grimsby. A company spokesman said the skipper was determined to get back to work.


----------



## tomjon

you whant to come down to grimsby and talk to some of the ex fishermen


----------



## tomjon

*g quickfall*



nicolina said:


> Hello Steve:
> Regarding skippers missing from trawlers at sea both skipper George Quickfall
> and George Reynolds have been mentioned but other went missing to:
> Alex Jappy went missing on the Reboundo
> Harold E Chandler went missing on the Ogano
> William H Corn went missing on the Andanes
> August Waage went missing on the Ruthlandshire


i was on the ross kelly when george whent missing i gave him his last cup of tea tomjon


----------



## DennisT

*Grimsby Fishermen*



Clem said:


> Hi everyone, I've started this thread to discuss Grimsby fishing vessels. I'm in the process of compiling a database of the above and, would welcome any contributions on this theme. ie. photo's, stories of life on board, histories of the vessels etc.
> 
> Hopefully as this thread develops, it can become a reference point for people with similar interests.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Clem


I don't know if this is the correct site to ask but I am a genealogist and wish to trace any living relatives of the Denison Family.

My Great Grandfather was John Denison, a Trawler Captain. known as Hawthorn Jack because of his walking stick. His son Frank was also a Captain and two of his son's, Ivor and Alan also went to sea. Frank's brother, Cyril, was was killed in 1941 on board the OPHIR II.

I know from an article in the Grimsby Telegraph dated 5 December 2002 that in 1961 Ivor served as mate on the GY48 ****nal.

Any further information greatly appreciated.


----------



## TSJ59

Hello Dennis - Welcome to the Forum.

There is some information on Denison's on the N.E. Lincolnshire Archives site *Click Here*

Cheers, Terry


----------



## nicolina

Alan Dennison seems to have started as skipper with the Crampin Co in the early 60thies and the going into the Ross Group before he went to the Boston Co.
Wellard 61 Bradman 61 Then a spell with the Atlas Co Vianova 61 Vanessa 62
Bradman 62 Trueman 62 Bradman 63-64 and some months in 65 He then went to
the Ross Group as a regular skipper:
Ross Renown 65-66-67 Ross Trafalgar 68 Ross Revenge 68 Ross Valiant 68.
He now goes to the Boston Co and having stern trawler experience he takes.
Boston Lincoln 68 and when the Boston Comanche is bough from France he took her: Boston Comanche 68.69-70-71 Then a couple of trips in the Boston Concord in 1971-72 Then on the William Wilberforce 72-73-74-75-76-77
And a couple of trips in the Boston Kestrel in 1977 and that's all i have on him.
His brother Ivor Dennison i only have as skipper on the Real Madrid but dont have any date on when!!!!
If my memories serves me right there where either on ore two with the name Dennison on the Mildenhall when she was wrecked in 1948 and i think Alan was on her then but i am not sure.
I am convinced that other will add up to what i have told you and give you more informatios on your relatives.


----------



## TSJ59

Hello again - Some more on Alan and Ivor on the Sidewinder site / Skippers *Click Here*

Cheers, Terry


----------



## Steve Farrow

Granada Television made a short but excellent film in 1965 called "DECKIE LEARNER" in which a young lad goes to sea on his first trip on board the Ross Renown and her skipper was Alan Denison............if you can get hold of a copy it's worth a look. Black an white but good quality.
Steve


----------



## Tomejen

*Steam Trawler Orontes.*

Hi folks, this is my first attempt at posting.
My grandad Chris (Lars Christian Bernhardt Jensen to give him his full moniker) was on the S.T. Orontes out of Mulgrave, Nova Scotia after WW1.
He then came back to Grimsby with her as 1st mate 1920. Does anyone have any other info about her?
The pic is one that I bought from Grimsby Fishing Heritage.

Official Number 105040 
Gross Tonnage 178 
Length 111.5 ft 
Breadth 21 ft 
Draught 11.5 ft 
Built by Cochrane & Cooper, 1885 
Owner Lancashire Fishing Co Ltd 

History 

March 30 1895 Launched by Cochrane & Cooper, Beverley (Yd.No.125) for Thomas Hamling & Co Ltd, Hull as Orontes. 
1895 Completed. Registered at Hull (H282). 
1906 Sold to Lancashire Steam Fishing Co Ltd, Fleetwood (J. Marr & Son Ltd, managers). 
January 09 1906 Registered at Fleetwood (FD54). 
1912 Sold to Wallace Fisheries Ltd, Vancouver, BC. 
February 17 1912 Fleetwood registry closed. 
1912 Registered at Vancouver. 
July 1919 Sold to Northwold Steam Fishing Co Ltd, Grimsby (T. Sowerby, manager). Registered at Grimsby (GY411). 
1920 Sold to T. Sowerby, Milford Haven. 
1924 Sold to Robert D. Roberts, Grimsby. 
September 1926 Sold to Orontes Steam Fishing Co Ltd, Grimsby (W. H. Johnston, manager). 
January 1933 Sold to A. McKay, Milford Haven (R. L. Hancock, manager). 
1935 Sold to R. L. Hancock, Milford Haven. 
1937 Sold to owners in the Netherlands for demolition. 

Information courtesy of Gil Mayes.


----------



## tomjon

any body got any pics of the ross juno she fished out of grimsby


----------



## davetodd

MT Ross Juno GY660 O.N.303272 built 1961 at Beverley for Crampin as Padgett.
Sold to Ross Group 1965 and re-named Ross Juno.
Grimsby Library have one photograph of this vessel as Ross Juno GY660
Best Regards
Dave


----------



## mattarosa

*Ross Revenge*

Hi all
Can anyone help me a little with the history of Ross Revenge? I have two numbers for her - GY709 and GY718 but I'm not clear whether this is the same trawler and if so, why the different numbers?

I see a notice on the Ross Revenge site calling for old crew members to help make a do***entary. Not sure if that is up to date, anyone know any more about it? That would be an interesting history, I think.

Hilary


----------



## Steve Farrow

mattarosa said:


> Hi all
> Can anyone help me a little with the history of Ross Revenge? I have two numbers for her - GY709 and GY718 but I'm not clear whether this is the same trawler and if so, why the different numbers?
> 
> I see a notice on the Ross Revenge site calling for old crew members to help make a do***entary. Not sure if that is up to date, anyone know any more about it? That would be an interesting history, I think.
> 
> Hilary


Hi Hilary,
As far as I'm aware the only fishing number the Ross Revenge had was GY 709 
Incidentally, one of her skippers, John Meadows telephoned me about a month ago. He made a lot of money in her and broke a few port landing records.
Regards
Steve


----------



## mattarosa

The 1974 Olsen's says GY718. I suppose this must be a mistake?

I must be feeling better, as I felt bored this morning, and spent a while doing one of those avatars. The one I chose is a detail from a postcard I own and says "A sweet little sole".

As if.

Hilary


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## mattarosa

*Ross Revenge (again)*

Steve
I'm still puzzled. This pic is clearly Ross Revenge and the number looks like GY718. Is it just an optical illusion? This is the skipper you mentioned, Meadows. No idea where this pic came from, perhaps you sent it to me?

Hilary


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## gil mayes

Cox does have her as GY709, but as Hilary says she is GY718 in Olsen's and clearly thus in the photograph. I recorded her as GY718 in "British Coastal Ships, Tugs & Trawlers" in 1974, so where did GY709 come from? Are we both missing something?
Gil.


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## davetodd

Lord Jellicoe built 1962 had a fishing reg as H228.
Transferred to Grimsby in 1963 and had fishing reg as GY 709.
Transferred to Colne Shipping of Lowestoft in 1981, presumably kept GY709 until then.
As far as I can see Ross Revenge had GY718 from1969 to 1979.

But of course I could be wrong.

Best of luck
Dave


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## trotterdotpom

Hilary, it sure looks like GY718 to me and it looks like Dave has tracked down the real GY709.

For interest, the following site has some good photos of the ship from her time as the Icelandic Freyr (RE1), through her Grimsby days and on to her Radio Caroline incarnation: http://www.rossrevenge.co.uk/index.htm

One interesting snippet is that when she was handed over by the Icelandics, she was manned by a mixed English and Icelandic crew on her trip to Grimsby - a bit of a novelty I thought. 

On another site, singer, Rick Wakeman, who is campaigning to have her declared a heritage site, says that she once towed an aircraft carrier - sounds a bit implausible, does anyone know the cir***stances? Rick's interest in the ship is presumeably because of her Radio Caroline days.

Nice Avotar - at first I thought the umbrella and a surfboard were an unlikely combination!

John T.


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## Steve Farrow

*Ross Revenge*

Hilary,
You are correct in saying the Ross Revenge was GY 718, I've attached a thumbnail here. Mr. Cox erred on this one, well spotted!

Like the avatar. Well 'plaiced'

Steve


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## gil mayes

As far as I recall, when 'owned' by Silas Oates she towed the props clear of the ARK ROYAL after the shafts had been cut by explosives. This was at the breaking berth in Cairnryan.
Gil.


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## trotterdotpom

Thanks Gil - Rick Wakeman was partially right I suppose.

John T.


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## mattarosa

Thanks to everyone for the help. Just to put a seal on it, I hope a fine painter won't mind me posting a thumbnail of one of his excellent paintings!

Hilary


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## Magnus Ganson

mattarosa said:


> Hi all
> Can anyone help me a little with the history of Ross Revenge? I have two numbers for her - GY709 and GY718 but I'm not clear whether this is the same trawler and if so, why the different numbers?
> 
> I see a notice on the Ross Revenge site calling for old crew members to help make a do***entary. Not sure if that is up to date, anyone know any more about it? That would be an interesting history, I think.
> 
> Hilary


Hilary I sailed as mate on the Ross Revenge in 1971,I have been contacted by Alan Beech who is hoing to get a few of the old crew members together to make a 'fishing video' they would spend a weekend on board sharing memories and experiences, he is hoping it will happen sometime this summer. Magnus


----------



## Steve Farrow

Magnus,
Have you been in touch with her old skipper, John Meadows, he may well be interested!

Steve


----------



## Magnus Ganson

Steve Farrow said:


> Magnus,
> Have you been in touch with her old skipper, John Meadows, he may well be interested!
> 
> Steve


Hi Steve I haven't heard from John for years,I don't know where he's got to.


----------



## Magnus Ganson

Magnus Ganson said:


> Hi Steve I haven't heard from John for years,I don't know where he's got to.


My brother still lives in cleethorpes,although I live down in Kent


----------



## mattarosa

Magnus Ganson said:


> Hilary I sailed as mate on the Ross Revenge in 1971,I have been contacted by Alan Beech who is hoing to get a few of the old crew members together to make a 'fishing video' they would spend a weekend on board sharing memories and experiences, he is hoping it will happen sometime this summer. Magnus



Hi Magnus
That's good to hear. I wish you all luck with the project.
Kind regards
Hilary


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## gkh151

Magnus,

Did you know a friend of mine Scott Watson he was on the Revenge with John Meadows. He is now a Skipper himself. I think at the moment he has a stern dragger out of Iceland.

Graham


----------



## Steve Farrow

Magnus Ganson said:


> Hi Steve I haven't heard from John for years,I don't know where he's got to.


Hi Magnus,
John Meadows is still in Cleethorpes and lives a few streets away from me. I spoke to him on the phone a couple of months ago and he said he doesn't have a PC. A great pity because he could tell us so much!

Steve


----------



## Magnus Ganson

Hello Graham,the name rings a bell but there were so many crew members over the time I spent on the Revenge.I was mate of her from May 1971 to January 1972.


----------



## Magnus Ganson

Steve Farrow said:


> Hi Magnus,
> John Meadows is still in Cleethorpes and lives a few streets away from me. I spoke to him on the phone a couple of months ago and he said he doesn't have a PC. A great pity because he could tell us so much!
> 
> Steve


Thanks for that Steve, If you speak to John again please send him my regards,and you wont believe what he could tell you!!!!


----------



## nicolina

Hallo Magnus:
I have you as skipper on following Grimsby trawlers:
Northern Queen+Eagle+Chief+Isles
Ross Kashmir+Juno+Panther
Are they all OK and did you skipper other trawlers???


----------



## Ronnie Williams

I have a very old [and large] painting, off a Grimsby fishing smack called the 
Clyde, going to the aid off a floundering sailing ship, the name appears to be 
Mathilda registered Oria? the signature is covered by the old oak frame and I'm lothe to undo it, I've been trying to find out some information about it
I wondered if you could help thanks.
RW


----------



## gil mayes

Pic taken at Fleetwood, Raymond. As usual any corrections/additions gratefully received.
MALAGA (GY393) (1926-1935)
O.N. 146901. 271g n 125.7 x 23.5 x 12.7 feet
T.3-cyl by National Shipbuilding Co, Goderich, Ontario

1.1917: Orderered by The Admiralty (paid for and built under direction of RCN) (Canadian “Castle”- “T.R.” class) from Collingwood Shipbuilding Co Ltd, Ontario (Yd.No.59) and subcontracted to Dominion Shipbuilding Co Ltd (Thor Iron Works), Toronto. 15.6.1918: Completed as TR.13. 8.1919: Paid off and laid up. 1921: Accepted offer of Rose Street Foundry & Engineering Co Ltd, Inverness (Captain D. J. Munro) for reconditioning and lay-up prior to sale. Brought over at The Admiralty’s expense. 1920s: After renovation laid up in Caledonian Canal. 9.1926: Sold to Boston Deep Sea Fishing & Ice Co Ltd, Fleetwood (Fred Parkes, manager). 22.9.1926: Renamed Malaga (GY393); fishing out of Fleetwood. 14.12.1929: Sailed Fleetwood for West of Scotland/Butt of Lewis grounds. 27.12.1929: Berthed at Stornoway with forecastle and fish room flooded having struck submerged rocks off Butt of Lewis. 5/6/7.1933: Chartered by Italian Government to provide support for a transAtlantic flight involving 20 to 30 aeroplanes. 9.5.1933: Sailed Fleetwood for NW Atlantic. 19.5.1933: Arrived St. John’s, Newfoundland. 18.10.1935: On a trip to West of Scotland grounds (Sk. G. A. Novo). In severe storm conditions, missing off Portrush, Co. Antrim; crew of twelve lost. 20.12.1935: Grimsby registry closed. 
Gil.


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## Magnus Ganson

nicolina said:


> Hallo Magnus:
> I have you as skipper on following Grimsby trawlers:
> Northern Queen+Eagle+Chief+Isles
> Ross Kashmir+Juno+Panther
> Are they all OK and did you skipper other trawlers???


Hello Nicolina, yes they are all correct. I was also skipper of the Ross Kandahar, Ross Kelly,Ross Tiger, and theNorthern Sea


----------



## gkh151

Hi Magnus,

Just out of interest when where you skipper of the Tiger and what did you think to her. I was there with Bill Hodson in 1971.

Graham


----------



## Magnus Ganson

gkh151 said:


> Hi Magnus,
> 
> Just out of interest when where you skipper of the Tiger and what did you think to her. I was there with Bill Hodson in 1971.
> 
> Graham


Hi Graham, I was skipper of the Tiger in1977,I was also mate of her with Dennis Avery after that, she was a fine boat.


----------



## billblow

Magnus
Jimmy Sheader Jag, Zebra, etc signed on here but I don't see much activity from him but hopefully he will see some of these threads and respond
billblow


----------



## mattarosa

Ronnie Williams said:


> I have a very old [and large] painting, off a Grimsby fishing smack called the
> Clyde, going to the aid off a floundering sailing ship, the name appears to be
> Mathilda registered Oria? the signature is covered by the old oak frame and I'm lothe to undo it, I've been trying to find out some information about it
> I wondered if you could help thanks.
> RW


Ronnie
Do you have any idea of date or location? There was a fatal collision between 2 steamships, one being called Mathilda, off Flamborough Head in December 1925. There is a Clyde GY317, built in 1891, but I think that was a steam trawler and not a fishing smack. 

If the 1925 incident was the right one, there are a few more details in the Times, but I am rather doubtful whether this is the right time.

Hilary


----------



## Magnus Ganson

billblow said:


> Magnus
> Jimmy Sheader Jag, Zebra, etc signed on here but I don't see much activity from him but hopefully he will see some of these threads and respond
> billblow


Have you been on the Grimsby skippers site??


----------



## Ronnie Williams

mattarosa said:


> Ronnie
> Do you have any idea of date or location? There was a fatal collision between 2 steamships, one being called Mathilda, off Flamborough Head in December 1925. There is a Clyde GY317, built in 1891, but I think that was a steam trawler and not a fishing smack.
> 
> If the 1925 incident was the right one, there are a few more details in the Times, but I am rather doubtful whether this is the right time.
> 
> Hilary


thanks for answering my query,the Matilda is definately a sailing ship, the trawler could well be steam, I'll try to post a photograph, but I dont know how it will come out, it has glass in the frame and the reflection may distort the image
ronnie


----------



## mattarosa

*Gy300*

Happy Saturday everyone!

I am looking for a little help to solve an inconsistency.

On my list of Grimsby trawlers I have one GY300 called MORVINA. The source appears to be Olsens 1916. I have checked and Olsen 1916 definitely says Morvina.

However, someone just sent me a picture of GY300 NORVINA (this is clearly typed on the caption).

Does anyone know which is the correct name for this trawler, please?

Hilary


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## davetodd

1934 edition of Olsen's Almanac gives:-
MORVINA O.N. 137004 GY300 Call letters MFNZ Nett Ton. 109
Horse power 75 Built 1914 at Beverley Owner Kottingham T.Co.Ltd. Grimsby

Miramar Ship index gives:-
Morvina O.N. 1137004 Trawler Gross Ton. 226 built 1914 by C.W.&Gemmel at Beverley.
Wrecked off N.Egilsay 13.5.36

Conclusion is that the name on the picture "Norvina" is in error.
Best regards
Dave


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## Steve Farrow

I have a photo of this vessel and it also states NORVINA, but looking closely it seems the name on the bow is MORVINA and she has Kottingham funnel markings. Black top, red bottom seperated by a white star on a black band between two white bands. 

I have attached a painting of the Rononia belonging to the same company.

Bill might help if I've got this wrong!

Steve


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## mattarosa

*Morvina*

Thank you, Dave and Steve. You guys are great. Your pic is the same as the one I was sent, Steve, though yours is better quality. You can see the caption, which clearly says Norvina, but based on your conclusions, I will file it as Morvina. Thanks for the help.

Hilary


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## mattarosa

Steve Farrow said:


> I have attached a painting of the Rononia belonging to the same company.
> 
> Your painting of the Rononia is lovely, Steve. I'd love to have all your paintings collected in a book, but I've taken the hint and won't mention it!


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## Steve Farrow

Ha!..........Maybe one day Hilary! I am about to post the Reperio in the Gallery!

I think the mis-naming may be a 'Typing error' in our local paper that has done an excellent job of reproducing a series of old postcards, and this has been one of them.
This is becoming more common as time passes, simply because the older editors and reporters that grew up with the fishing industry are retiring and being replaced by younger people who have little knowlege of it. Pressures being what they are, do not allow them the luxury of time to cross referrence most features.
Two weeks ago there was a photo of the the Edlei, a seine netter (originally), sailing down the Humber, and the caption said it was a tug!
But I suppose everything afloat is now called a 'Boat', according to the media.

Been to the framers yet???


----------



## mattarosa

Steve Farrow said:


> Been to the framers yet???


I left the painting with the framer when I visited my mum last weekend. I am hoping to get it back, framed the same at the Dolphin, next week, though the framer is slow sometimes so it might be the time after that. I will send you a pic of the Dolphin and the Seal (or Ranger) sailing together on my wall then.

Hilary


----------



## mattarosa

Steve Farrow said:


> Ha!..........Maybe one day Hilary! I am about to post the Reperio in the Gallery!
> 
> I think the mis-naming may be a 'Typing error' in our local paper that has done an excellent job of reproducing a series of old postcards, and this has been one of them.
> This is becoming more common as time passes, simply because the older editors and reporters that grew up with the fishing industry are retiring and being replaced by younger people who have little knowlege of it. Pressures being what they are, do not allow them the luxury of time to cross referrence most features.
> Two weeks ago there was a photo of the the Edlei, a seine netter (originally), sailing down the Humber, and the caption said it was a tug!
> But I suppose everything afloat is now called a 'Boat', according to the media.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Luckily there are people like you, and others on this site, who are knowledgeable and interested in sharing the knowledge.
> 
> I think even I could tell the difference between a seine netter and a tug, but I'm not sure!
> 
> Hilary
Click to expand...


----------



## nicolina

Question regarding Grimsby trawler Night Watch GY 26
Charles B Cox has following:
Reistered: 2/1929 as Night Watch GY 26
Lost 10/38 register closed: Abandoned Sem Island 1/10-1937
Registered: 3/1939 as Murmansk GY 45
1940 Lost

The Beverley book has her as:
1929: Night Watch GY 26
2/10-1937 Lost Sem Island
1938: Salvaged
1939: Murmansk GY45
1940: Grounded at Brest France
1942: Salvaged and joined German Navy
1944: Reported missing War Loss

Miramar has her as:
1926: Night Watch 
1939:R/N Murmansk
1947:R/N Oceanie
1969: Scrapped

My question was she a war loss ore did she survive and became an French vessel???


----------



## billblow

Steve
Just come across your mention of Kottingham's colours. Yes thats more or less as I have it but as usual there is always something comes along to make you think. There is around a tinted print or post card of the Rononia I think it is were there red funnel is much more of a pink. When in doubt I show both with a comment on my uncertainty. With Bacons as managers may guess would be they would use their red paint up so ergo red as Lindsey.........
Edit reason ....message for Steve. ....I'll post a Kottingham funnel on the markings forum


----------



## mattarosa

billblow said:


> Steve
> Just come across your mention of Kottingham's colours. Yes thats more or less as I have it but as usual there is always something comes along to make you think. There is around a tinted print or post card of the Rononia I think it is were there red funnel is much more of a pink. When in doubt I show both with a comment on my uncertainty. With Bacons as managers may guess would be they would use their red paint up so ergo red as Lindsey.........


You are right to be wary of prints and pictures. I once went to the Horse of the Year Show and found that many of the red riding coats I'd seen on TV were, in reality, faded to pink.


----------



## Steve Farrow

Nicolina,
I have the Murmansk (Nigh****ch) as grounded on 17th June 1940 and abandoned. Salvaged in 1942 by the German Navy and commissioned as patrol boat PB 06. Lost in 1944. From Toghill's Royal Navy Trawlers.

Steve


----------



## Steve Farrow

billblow said:


> Steve
> Just come across your mention of Kottingham's colours. Yes thats more or less as I have it but as usual there is always something comes along to make you think. There is around a tinted print or post card of the Rononia I think it is were there red funnel is much more of a pink. When in doubt I show both with a comment on my uncertainty. With Bacons as managers may guess would be they would use their red paint up so ergo red as Lindsey.........
> Edit reason ....message for Steve. ....I'll post a Kottingham funnel on the markings forum


Bill,
As you remark, there is always something to make you think! Some years ago, I contacted Tom Wood, (The local editor of Fishing News then) whose hobby and interest was trawler funnels. His father was a customs officer and when young Tom was taken on the docks, he was fascinated by the array of different colours of the ships, so he copied and recorded them.
It was Tom who told me when I was about to paint the Rononia, that Kottingham's had a red funnel that was a shade between red lead and pink. I noted this down in a book using a water colour wash, and tried to produce this in my painting but I feel it should have been a bit lighter.
Perhaps Edwin Bacon got his painters to mix a little white with his red! 

Regards

Steve


----------



## billblow

Steve
Your photo of the Night Watch GY 26 she is carrying the all yellow funnel of the Nocturne S.F.Co Ltd a company in which Sir G.E.Moody was involved and possibly owner.


----------



## mattarosa

Hi Bill
Owner, per 1939 Olsen, is Nocturne Fishing Co Ltd.
Hilary


----------



## billblow

Hilary
This blooming S for Steam seems to come and go all the time with many of the companies full titles. Cox has Nocturne S F Co Ltd, Fleetwood Float has Nocturne S F Co Ltd and just had a peep on plimsollships and it has Nocturne F Co Ltd, and you say Olsens has Nocturne F Co Ltd. If and when I'm ready to put the disc out with the funnel's on I must find the most reliable source for the company titles.
Oh and Steam Trawling Co is often also Steam Trawl Co, I never know if it is to save space or if it is worth checking deeper.
Bill


----------



## mattarosa

billblow said:


> Hilary
> This blooming S for Steam seems to come and go all the time with many of the companies full titles. Cox has Nocturne S F Co Ltd, Fleetwood Float has Nocturne S F Co Ltd and just had a peep on plimsollships and it has Nocturne F Co Ltd, and you say Olsens has Nocturne F Co Ltd. If and when I'm ready to put the disc out with the funnel's on I must find the most reliable source for the company titles.
> Oh and Steam Trawling Co is often also Steam Trawl Co, I never know if it is to save space or if it is worth checking deeper.
> Bill


Bill
I see what you mean. Olsen definitely has Nocturne F Co Ltd in 1939, same in 1934 and 1938.

One of the members here is very interested in the fishing companies. Maybe Birgir? or Nicolina? They may be able to throw some light.

Do you think it possible that some of the company names changed from time to time, maybe even slight changes in the name, for tax reasons in the same way big corporations register and dissolve companies nowadays?

Hilary


----------



## mattarosa

*P.s.*

Bill
I bid on, and won, some of those trawler funnel cards on ebay yesterday. Not sure which they are as it was a mixed lot. I will bear in mind your comments about the pretty colours, and wait for your authoritative disk to be available. We have seen how careful your research is, and I am sure we are all looking forward to seeing the results.
Hilary


----------



## mattarosa

*Trawler print*

I've just seen the attached advertised for sale on ebay. It is a reproduction.from a book I think, of a painting by Cecil King. The item is advertised as an Icelandic trawler but clearly bears the designation GY and the numbers 54. It is not clear whether it is GY54 as there is something obscuring where another number could be, so it could be GY540, 541, 542 etc. It's also not clear whether this is a painting of an actual Grimsby trawler. 

Anyone know anything about this, or care to guess.

Hilary


----------



## billblow

Hilary
If it is a Grimsby trawler it's a poor copy. It's painted in 1904 and there were then.
GY 540 Germania GY 548 Cetus belonging to the Grimsby & North Sea Steam Trawling Co. Black funnel with very broad red band. GY 547 Plymouth owned by Hagerup & Doughty black funnel, broad yellow band with entwined HD on it. GY 546 Stromo owned by Henry Smethurst black funnel, broad greeny/blue band. GY 544 Zenobia owned in 1904 by W & A Lambert black funnel with flag of horizontal red white & blue stripes from top down and containing a black L.
Bill
Edit. reason comment. Thats why for folks carrying out reseach in the future a good data base of funnel liveries may be of some help to them in certain cir***stances.
Bill


----------



## david.hopcroft

Hi Clem

I wonder if you have a photo of the Ross Kandahar GY123. A friend is compiling an article and is looking for a photo. I was at Humber Radio for many years, so I remember all the names in your thread.

David
+


----------



## TSJ59

David - Did you see the replies to your post re: _Ross Kandahar_ in *Ship Research*?

Cheers, Terry


----------



## mattarosa

*Ross Daring*

Here is the article about Ross Daring from Sidewinder. Hope it is of some interest.
Hilary


----------



## mattarosa

*Ross Daring*

Here is a story involving the Ross Daring from the Times newspaper of Friday May 27, 1966

DIVE TO DEATH OFF SHIP
'Going home to see girlfriend'
Hull, May 26
When a trawler was four miles offshore after leaving for the fishing ground a spare hand, aged 19 said he was going home to see his girlfriend and dived overboard, it was stated today at a Board of Trade Inquiry here.
The inquiry was to confirm the skipper's log that the spare hand, Eric Fuller, of Hedon Road, Hull, and Clive Davies, aged 31, third hand, of Fountain Street, Hull, were lost, presumed drowned, from the Hull trawler, St Romanus, off Spurn Point.
Skipper Peter Grayburn, aged 31, of Hamlyn Avenue, Hull, said the ship had stopped for engine repair. Weather and visibility were good but there was a strong ebb current. After the two men dived in a message was sent to the Grimsby trawler Ross Daring nearby. A man dived overboard from her but, although he reached one of the other two men, the man sank and was lost. The Ross Daring man swam back to his ship.
Skipper Grayburn said he searched the area for an hour and a half. 
After a trawler had sailed, he added, men often said they did not want to sail and were going over the side, but it was usually just talk. Fuller probably thought he could swim ashore.
Geoffrey Clarkson, mate, of Beecroft Street, Hull, said Fuller was looking forward to coming home again and to his forthcoming marriage.
The acting marine superintendent, Mr Stanley West, who conducted the inquiry, said the three men who attempted rescue, and particularly George Cooper of the Ross Daring. Their names were being forwarded to the proper authority. Davies lost his life going to the aid of a shipmate. The skipper's log was confirmed.


----------



## trotterdotpom

*Lumpers and Bobbers*

Recently someone asked where the names "lumpers" and "bobbers", the workers on the fish docks in Grimsby and Hull respectively, came from and why they used different names in each port. I'm not sure if it was on this thread or not.

I asked my friend Barney Warman (now 84 and former Radio Controller of Ross Trawlers), who worked on the Grimsby fishdock as a 14 year old in the late '30s, but he didn't know. He did however send me the following description of the fishdock which I thought might be of interest to Grimsby aficionados. I also asked about the clogs that the fishdock workers wore right up until the late '60s and maybe later.

"Yes I wore those Clogs, black hard leather tops, wooden soles which had the old steel quarter inch "shoe" nailed to them, and you wore the old hob socks with them. That was the footwear on the Grimsby Docks about the fish markets anyway,, one would be up ended on the slime blood and gore otherwise. I used to be at the Stand as each Merchants piece of the pontoon was called, at 0730 hrs and with one of the older men get up in the oft and sort out what fish boxes would be required to dispaatch the processed fish when prepared weighed and all that sort of thing. After that they had to be washed out and lined up ready. , then Bill and I had to get round to the market auctions which started at the Seine net boat end right up towards the Lockpits, you may have noticed all the small white boats there. then we would follow the sales along, collecting the boxes of fish ear marked with our particular Tally putting them on the barrow and getting them back to the Stand, then back again behind the Sales looking for our Tallies, collecting and rushing back to the stand and this went on all the way round to the last landing of fish on the old Pneumonia where the deep water vessels landed. So you would come through the prime fish Seine net stuff, Northsea stuff, Westard and n Scottish stuff . on to the Faroese landings then the deep water. The Gaffers would buy according to the trade in of course. This process could be over by say 1100 hrs then it would be all let loose to get the 12 o clock earlies prepared, packed and away to the allocated train wagons which as you know were all round the pontoons. Then you could have your lunch feeling knackered, that took about 20/30 mins then back to the graft
and believe me it was always non stop especially Mon and Thurs. You could perhaps have it all over and go home say from 1700 to 1900 hrs. Each firm had its own off pontoon office and there you would go to remove your clogs and hob socks a process which exuded enough steam to run a cylender. Then cycle home. Hell John they were busy days."

I asked Barney how the deep water pontoon bacame known as "Pneumonia" and he sent me some more info:

"Grimsby pontoon, hell it was a crazy place especially on those heavilly fished mkts, following those sales and literally fighting to get your "tallied boxes " of fish onto your barrow and when you had loaded with about 12 or more 10 stone boxes on it getting it back to your "Stand" unloading it and then back to the sales for more. If the gaffers went mad and bought a load of fish with having a lot of trade in then we could have a lorry or horse and cart as they were still on the go then. Yes that long pontoon where the deep water vessles landed was called Pneumonia for some reason it got all the wind and bad wx in winter time and the lads working on the stands along it really felt the wx. The clogs were our own. and had to be cared for with wax was it / and the Horse shoes on the soles were always wearing out or coming adrift resulting in you tripping up occasionally so they had to be renewed. I went there on leaving school at 14, my dad got me in with his old school pals who were then Fish Merchants
It really was donkeys work John, as Ive said when we had finished and we went off the Stand to the office to unrig etc I was near too tired to take the dam clogs off, butof course I did after having five minutes breather, on the old bike and home. Sometimes if we finished early I would stop on the Stand wehn the others had gone home and salvidge some of the fish that had been put in those big offal barrels and practice filleting etc. , and taking some home, when I think back now as writing this they were such happy days really.
I left it in 1941 and enlisted into the RAF in May of that year."

When I asked Barney if it was OK to put his stuff on SN, he replied with the following:

"Well if I had known you wanted to put that GY Pontoon stuff onto the market I could have embelished it more, but was only thinking about it this mng when walking the park, that pontoon from one end (near the lock pits ) to the other end at Pneumonia was at early mng auction times like looking at those Equitorial Ant marches you see on the TV, then when it is all calmed down and all the fishmerchants have their respective quantitiies of fish on their stands the business of cleaning it filleting it and packing it into the different sized boxes according to recieved mail o rders to hand. Icehouse men continually rolling up large kits of ice to cntral points which you collect from when needed on your stand, Offal barrels in the same way, and all the time trying to keep the stand clear so you can pack fish into the boxes, ice them up and nail them shut and stand other boxes on top and go through that process until all the orders to hand are contained. Then came the time to stand the Tallied boxes up and load them onto your barrows for delivery about the pontoon to wherever yor wagon to Coventry, Hitchen, Norweich etc may be. As you came to these required wagons you unloaded respective boxes and then the Dockboard men with their little barrows would run them into the wagons and stack them up inside. Whilst one or two of you were doing this routine the rest of the staff usually the filleters would be icing back the unsold fish and cleaning up the stand. On that last job I had before enlisting there was Albert drayton the gaffer, his foreman Ted Cullum, two filleters Danny and Alf, then there was Bill Lowe who I horseworked with, he was crackers, one of those that would go red in the face and beserk when rummaging about those huge fish squares for our tallied kits. Hell he was a fanatic and I think everyone on the docks knew it. I used to like packing those orders, you would have your say 10 stone box there all clean and iced, a layer of grease proof, in goes for Mr.smith say of Peterborough, 4 stone of headless cod, a layer of ice, 2 stone of 1 lb plaice, 2 stone of cat fish fillets, layer of ice and perhaps a stone of crabs., cover it with grease proof, ice it up bang on the lids nail up and there she was. Hell i can feel it all now."

Hard times.

John T.


----------



## davetodd

Barra-boys with clogs on, skidding down the wet concrete ramps, no brakes, no steering except by an art learnt after many collisions and scattered boxes of fish accompanied by much shouting and swearing.
This activity along with many others went on for decades.
The lack of brakes was matched in the "Fish Dock" lorries, which were ex-WW2 service vehicles of any type you can think of.
No number plates, no insurance, no indicators, no lights, maybe a brake now and then. Never allowed off the docks but went anyway.
Exciting times, busy times.
Thank you for reminding us of the atmosphere John T.

One correction for you.
Hob socks is spelt ABB Socks.
You have clearly related what you heard and probably added the "h" to "ob"
Abb wool was/is a rough thick wool which still contains quite a lot of the natural oil. Makes it somewhat water repelant.

Thanks again.

Dave
and no licence required to drive them.


----------



## trotterdotpom

No worries Dave. I just cut and pasted what Barney sent, but I'll pass your reply on to him. He'll be pleased you liked it.

John T.


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## Charles Madsen

Hi to all, I was very interested in the scandanabian skippers sailing out of Grimsby. Does anyone know of my father Ivar Kristen Madsen whos seiner the LA Madsen LO276 (Previous LO 269) was lost with all hands in 1949 while sailing out of Grimsby.
We lived in Vivian Avenue and where neighbors with Sigi Thorensen the Icelandic Skipper.
I can find no recorded record of the ships loss.


----------



## mattarosa

trotterdotpom said:


> Barney Warman (now 84 and former Radio Controller of Ross Trawlers), who worked on the Grimsby fishdock as a 14 year old in the late '30s
> 
> Hi John
> I found Barney's recollections very interesting. I didn't have much idea what lumpers did (I thought they only unloaded the trawlers). A friend's father was a lumper, but that would have been after the Second World War. I have also collected a few postcards of the pontoon at Grimsby but, for some reason, they seem to be all around 1900-1910. I am really glad Barney didn't get the chance to embellish his descriptions, for they are wonderfully vivid just as they are.
> 
> Hilary


----------



## Happy Days

willie_howe said:


> any information on this trawler i believe my grandfather was on her when she was lost


Hello willie howe, my father was skipper of the Guava but left her just before she was lost, I knew your grandparents and went to school with one of their sons. Whose son are you? I believe I have a photo of the Guava somewhere and I know I have the order of service leaflet from the Memorial Service held in Lowestoft giving the names of the crew.
I lived in Fir Lane in Lowestoft.
Contact me if I can give you any more info,
Happy Days


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## misskiss

hi my nan only had 1 son Alan Fisher and my mum Sheila Fisher so you went to school with Alan who now lives in Australia and has done for 42 years. i would love any info you have copied i would refund any costs if you give me your personal e mail/ address etc i like to get new info for my mum as a surprise. my name is jill gurney thankyou so much jill xxxxx
(Address and email removed as this is a public site. Please use the private message system to exchange such details)


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## Magnus Ganson

Very quiet on here, where is every body


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## nicolina

Hallo Magnus:

Who would you consider to be one of Grimsbys most consistent distant water trawler skippers regarding catching fish/ making moneys?????

What about a top 10 list ???


----------



## rexy

*Northern Reward LO 168*

Does anybody have a photo of the NORTHERN REWARD LO168 built 1936 and initially sailing out of Fleetwood but later being transferred to Grimsby GY431
rexy


----------



## timo

nicolina, I belive Jonny Meadows made quite a bit of money (Ross Revenge), Cocker Mussel and Don Lister landed many a good trip too some of the middle water skippers landed with regular good settlings as well, Hull had some top earners, Billy Brettel and Roy Waller are 2 names that come to mind.


----------



## john hill

hi anybody 
do you know of any history about the trawler the northern reward


----------



## john hill

i would also like any information on the trawler 'FAVORITA'


----------



## john hill

rexy said:


> Does anybody have a photo of the NORTHERN REWARD LO168 built 1936 and initially sailing out of Fleetwood but later being transferred to Grimsby GY431
> rexy


Hi what conection do you have with the northern reward please, think that my g/father was killed on this vessel in 1937 when the reward was going to the aid of tyhe stranded trawler FAVORITA


----------



## osta

i have photo of vessel in war rig just come across another one with a/s coldstreamer astern in convoy duty


----------



## rexy

*northern reward*



osta said:


> i have photo of vessel in war rig just come across another one with a/s coldstreamer astern in convoy duty


I ve spoken to my father and even though t is a photo of the trawler after his father served on it he would be delighted to see it.
thanks very much....if anybodys wondering John Hill is my cousin, so James Robinson is OUR grandad.


----------



## Kerbtrawler

*Northern reward*



rexy said:


> Does anybody have a photo of the NORTHERN REWARD LO168 built 1936 and initially sailing out of Fleetwood but later being transferred to Grimsby GY431
> rexy


Hi Rexy
have a look at my web site
just click on the link at the bottom of this email and go to Grimsby trawlers then onto Northerns
the one your looking for is at the bottom of the page

cheers


----------



## johnblack5

Hello
As part of the search for Captain John Smith 10474 I have found that he served on 3 trawlers all out of Grimsby:
Russel in 1911 GY192
Godra in 1913
Anson in 1911 GY976)(it seems that this names was changed a number of times: Saturn-Lindern-Macedonia.

Do you have any other information on these vessels ?.

Can you recommend a book showing life as a fisherman in Grimsby 1900-1940 

Yoiurs is a super site.


John


----------



## mattarosa

Hi John
I agree, this is a wonderful site, with many knowledgeable and helpful members.

Re your question about books, "Out of Grimsby" by Alf May is about a fishing family and covers from the 1830s to the 1930s so far as I remember.

I'm sure other members will suggest others.

Good luck with your research.
Hilary


----------



## JANE MILLER

I am trying to trace any information I can about the Rononia. My grandfather was lost with this trawler in 1942 and I am trying to put as much info together for my father who will be 75 in July. He was only 9 years old when my grandfather was lost but he can remember visiting the trawler with his dad on many occassions. If you have any pictures or prints, I would be very grateful if you could let me have copies.

Hoping you can help. Kind regards,

jane Miller


----------



## Santos

Jane,

There is a painting of Rononia on this site at http://www.shipsnostalgia.com/showth...t=6320&page=41 just put in the link and scroll down to post 1024 by Steve Farrow - he posted the painting.

Also there is a mention of the sinking *here*

Also quite alot of information on the RONONIA *here*

Kind regards 
Chris.


----------



## Yorvick

My father spent his working teenage years pre WW2 fishing the arctic circle on his father's trawler he has written a small journal describing his experiences - if you wish I can send extracts to you. His whole family going back many generations were fishermen from Grimsby and Hull, and he writes of 7 uncles who drowned honourably at sea. My gg Grandmother was widowed twice 1864 and 1880 by the death of her husbands at sea. But it did not stop her sons, nor her daughters becoming involved in the fishing industry. Just let me know if you are interested in seeing the extracts.


----------



## davetodd

johnblack5 said:


> Hello
> As part of the search for Captain John Smith 10474 I have found that he served on 3 trawlers all out of Grimsby:
> Russel in 1911 GY192
> Godra in 1913
> Anson in 1911 GY976)(it seems that this names was changed a number of times: Saturn-Lindern-Macedonia.
> 
> Do you have any other information on these vessels ?.
> 
> Can you recommend a book showing life as a fisherman in Grimsby 1900-1940
> 
> Yoiurs is a super site.
> 
> 
> John


Hello John
Russell Steam trawler O.N.123585 built 1906 at Beverley 248 gross tons for A.Grant GY192 Served as minesweeper from 1915 for R.N. as Russell II
Then with H.L.Taylor Owner. Broken up in 1957.

Anson Steam trawler O.N. 118943 built 1905 at Beverley 83 net tons
In 1934 the owner was Chas.Dobson port no.GY47. Nothing further known.

Godra?
Could this be ?
GADRA Steam trawler O.N. 127847 built 1909 at Beverley 219 gross tons 106 net tons. Owner Howe S.F.Co. GY485. ( One photograph at Grimsby Library )
Mined 1941.

Hope this is of some help.

Best Regards
Dave


----------



## Roger Griffiths

*Dinorah Gy1107*

Hello all,
Steam trawler DINORAH 118304 GY1107, 192grt, had been sailing from Grimsby to the North Sea fishing grounds when she detonated a mine on the 28th April 1945 and sank off Bridlington with the loss of 11 crew.
I have her owner as A A Davidson in 1938. Was he still the owner at the time of her loss?

thanks and regards

Roger


----------



## gil mayes

Roger, this is what we have at FMHT. As usual grateful for any corrections/additions.
DINORAH (GY1107) (1944-1945)
O.N. 118304. 192g 37n 110.0 x 21.0 x 11.2 feet
T.3-cyl by N.E. Marine Engineering Co Ltd, Sunderland

6.1903: Launched by Smith’s Dock Co Ltd, North Shields (Yd.No.698) for The Castle Steam Trawlers Ltd, London (G. H. D. Birt, manager) as Picton Castle. 7.1903: Completed. Registered at London (LO177). 23.7.1903: Sailed Milford for SW of Ireland grounds (Sk. Joseph Huddlestone). 30.7.1903: Returned Milford with boiler trouble. 31.7.1903: Leaking tube caulked. 1.8.1903: Sailed for fishing grounds. 3.8.1903: Boiler tube leaking again. 4.8.1903: At about 11.30 p.m. a boiler explosion occurred; Michael Kennedy, fireman killed and Nicholas Atkinson, Chief Engineer badly scalded (subsequently died in hospital). Put into Berehaven (Castletown), Co. Cork. 1.10.1903: BOT Inquiry at Milford found that the explosion was caused by the back of the combustion chamber being encrusted with salt and soot and not kept clear. 8.1906: London registry closed. 13.8.1906: Registered at Swansea (SA??). 13.8.1906: G. H. D. Birt, Milford Haven appointed manager. 29.8.1906: Crawford Heron, Swansea appointed manager. 9.1906. Sold to Emprela Lisbonesa, Lisbon. 1.10.1906: Swansea registry closed. 10.1906: Renamed Dinorah (B459). 1911: Sold to W. H. Dodds, Aberdeen. Registered at Aberdeen (A505). 8.1914: Requisitioned for war service and converted for minesweeping duties (Ad. No. 288). 11.1917: Sold to Overseas Steam Fishing Co Ltd, Grimsby (W. H. Beeley, manager). Registered at Grimsby (GY1107). 1919: Returned. 9.1920: Sold to Bowering’s Steam Fishing Co Ltd, Grimsby (Beeley & Sleight Ltd, managers). 12.1932: Sold to John Buchan, Aberdeen. 1935: Sold to Gorspen Steam Trawling Co Ltd, Aberdeen (A. J. Spence, manager. 1936: Sold to A. A. Davidson, Aberdeen. 12.1940: Sold to J. Bennett (Wholesale) Ltd, Grimsby (W. A. Bennett, manager). 10.1944: Sold to Thornton Trawlers Ltd, Fleetwood (J. Marr & Son Ltd, manager). 28.4.1945: Foundered off Bridlington, believed by mine contact. All crew lost*. (Lost* - W.G. Dyble, A.E. Dyer, F. Rix, A.R. Quantrill, R.H. Lott, T. Balderson, C.F. Mortlock, J.T. Lamb, R.G. Rowbotham, E.G. Bacon, C. Kirk). 
Gil.


----------



## Roger Griffiths

Hello Gil,
Thank you very much for your usual comprehensive reply.

best regards
Roger


----------



## gil mayes

Roger, the Fleetwood Steam Trawler Database would be nothing like as comprehensive without your input over the years.

Small correction, typo,etc, Grimsby registration date should read. 
"1917: Sold to Overseas Steam Fishing Co Ltd, Grimsby (W. H. Beeley, manager). 9.11.1917: Aberdeen registry closed. 12.11.1917: Registered at Grimsby (GY1107)".
Gil.


----------



## Don Armour

Hello Magnus,

Just found this forum, saw your name and thought I'd drop you a line.

Don Armour
Radio Op 
Ross Kelvin 1969/70


----------



## johnblack5

Hi Hilary
Many thanks I will look out for it. I now have Trawlers of Humberside which is very interesting.

John


----------



## johnblack5

Hi Dave

Many thanks for the info. I purchased the crew lists for the listed boats which are very interesting. The name was listed incorrectly in the NELC archives, as you say it is GADRA. Any idea as to who I should contact for a copy of the photo.
It seems that at 13 years of age he was living in Northwich, at 21 he was a deck hand and at 25 a skipper. I suspect he may have attended a training scholl in Grimsby but none of the information is on line, Kew is very expensive, £45 to look for simple things.
Anyway, I am getting there slowly.

Thanks again

John


----------



## davetodd

John
I will have a look at the photo of the GADRA at Grimsby library next week and let you know the quality and how to purchase it.

Have re-checked the "Anson" GY976.
As far as I can find, the Anson did not have the Number GY976
GY976 was built in 1916 at Goole and was originally the COMMANDER LINDEN.
Bought by T.Robinson and renamed MACEDONIAN
Served in WW2 as SATURN Pennant No. FY823 as Minesweeper and Esso (Fuel carrier) returned to commercial use December 1945. Broken up 1961.
The date you gave for J.Smith's service on Anson was 1911 which seems to be in conflict with the build date of Commander Linden 1916!
Are you certain of the service dates?

Grimsby library have a photo of the Macedonian and I will look at that also.
But it may not be the one you are looking for.
Best Regards
Dave


----------



## johnblack5

Hello
I would be interested in reading this. My Grandfather John Smith was a deck hand on a Grimsby trawler at 21 (1909) and a skipper at 25. He died of old age in Grimsby with many relatives but so far I cannot find one of them.

Regards



John


----------



## johnblack5

Hi Dave
I also found this discrepancy. I obtained my data from the crew list.RefNo	208/5/55/47 

Repository	Archive 
Title	Anson 
Date	1911 
Description	vessel Anson; owner Wm Grant; skipper Geo H Green, certificate 4766. Crew: Geo H Green 4766 Skipper Aged 39 Leeds, R E George 8364 2nd Hand 28 Gorleston, T Law 1st Eng 35 New Holland, R Greenacre 2nd Eng 29 Kings Lynn, W C Cook 3rd Hand 21 Grimsby, J Duffield 4th Hand 26 Manchester, W Townsend 4th Hand 24 Grimsby, J Brooks Trimmer 42 Leytonstone, E Huntingdon Steward 46 Hartlepool, R Greenacre 1st Eng 29 Kings Lynn, W Fisher 2nd Eng 23 Hull, G Johnson 4th Hand 51 Birkenhead, F Smith Trimmer 53 Bury St Edmunds, W Townsend 4th Hand 24 Grimsby, T Rising 4th Hand 38 Gorleston, John Smith 10474 Mate 23 Northwich, T Law 1st Eng 35 New Holland, G Greenacre 2nd Eng 29 Kings Lynn, A George 8364 Mate 28 Gorleston, J Brooks Trimmer 42 Leytondstone, H Canfield Spare Hand 20 Ipswich, E Webster 2nd Eng 28 Grimsby, R Greenacre 2nd Eng 29 Kings Lynn, J Woolnough 3rd Hand 50 Lowestoft, J Ayers 2nd Eng 48 Leeds, J Duffield 4th Hand 26 Manchester, E Hetherington Steward 47 Hartlepool, H Emmerson 3rd Hand 24 Notts, S Rising 4th Hand 39 Gorleston, G Mackin Trimmer 31 Queenstown, S Codd 8678 2nd Hand 28 Barrow Haven. 

This can be seen on the NELC archives.


----------



## johnblack5

Dave
I have just checked the crew list, the Anson is listed as GY47, not sure where I got the other number from. John


----------



## johnblack5

Hi Dave
I found an earlier record where he served on the St George GY83 as a deck hand age 21, info on NLEC site but I searched under Northwich to find it. It seems as if all the records run out in 1913, prehaps this is where the details were transferred to Kew. He was listed on my fathers marriage certificate as being a skipper in 1934 and he died of old age in Grimsby, date unknown so far.

John


----------



## Roger Griffiths

Hello John,
It is important when searching for details of British vessels and in particular fishing boats that you use the vessels Official Number. This number is unique to the vessel no matter how many name changes and different ports she may have been registered at.
For example ANSON O/N109835 on GY register 2/12/1898 GY976 lost 5/6/1904
ANSON O/N 118943 on GY register 21/5/1905 GY47. Same name different vessel.
That said I cannot find crew lists in the timescale for the vessels you mention.
I think you would be better served looking for his Skippers certificates and working backwards.
The following is From the National Archives website.


9. Later records, c. 1910 onwards
From 1910, a combined index to masters, mates, engineers and skippers and mates of fishing boats was started to replace those formerly kept in registers (BT 127 , BT 138 and BT 141 ). The term index for this collection (as used in RGSS) is misleading: it is not an index to any other records. In effect it replaced the earlier registers and indexes and became a self-indexing register. It was kept in card form covering the period 1910 to 1930. It covers home and foreign trade and each card gives:

Name 
Certificate number 
Date of passing 
Date and place of birth 
Rating 
Port of examination 
The cards are of different colours depending on the type of qualification; white cards are for masters and mates, pink cards are for Engineers and green for Skippers and Mates of fishing boats. The index is available, on microfiche, as Index to Certificates of Competency, Masters, Mates, Engineers and Fishing Officers, Home and Foreign Trade, 1910-1930 (BT 352 ). Information found in this class often falls outside the nominal dates indicated.

Chronological registers of the issue, or reissue of certificates are to be found in:

BT 317 Registers of Masters and Mates Certificates Passings and Renewal (1917-1977) 
BT 318 Registers of Examinations for Certificates of Masters, Mates and Engineers, Returns of Passings and Failures (1928-1981) 
BT 320 Register of Engineers Passes and Renewals (1913-1935) [in process of transfer], these records are to be found at the National Maritime Museum under references RSS/ENG/5-6. 
BT 396 Registers of Passes and Renewals of Certificates of Competency for Fishing Officers (Skippers and 2nd hands) 1883-1959 
These registers give brief details of the issue of certificates. The entries are arranged in date order and give:

Date received 
Christian name 
When [examined] 
No 
Grade 
Port sent to 
Surname 
Port of examination 
Date 


Dave,
I cannot find details of the previous names you mention for SATURN O/N 138985. As fare as I know she was taken by the RN directly from the builders and kept the name SATURN throughout her life. Could you give me your source please.


Thanks and regards

Roger


----------



## davetodd

Roger,
After checking my information, here are the sources:-
Saturn GY976 WW1 Admiralty No.2971 from Dittmar & Colledge
Saturn GY976 O.N. 138985 MGFC built 1916 Goole Owner Trawlers ( White Sea & Grimsby ) Ltd Grimsby from 1934 Olsen's Fishermans Nautical Almanack.
Saturn FY823 WW2 from Lenton & Colledge
Saturn GY976 O.N.138985 MGFC built 1916Goole Owner Trawlers Grimsby Ltd.
from 1947 Olsen's Fisherman's Nautical Almanack.
Macedonian GY976 O.N.138985 MGFC built 1916 Goole Owner Lindern Fishing Co.Ltd Grimsby from 1960 Olsen's Fisherman's Nautical Almanack.
I now can see that the other names (Commander and Lindern) may be in error.
These two names appear on the excellent FLOAT website when searching for Saturn or Macedonian. I'm sure you are familiar with this website Roger.
Next week I will check Olsens entry for 1960 with Lloyds Register.
Regards
Dave


----------



## davetodd

johnblack5 said:


> Hi Dave
> I found an earlier record where he served on the St George GY83 as a deck hand age 21, info on NLEC site but I searched under Northwich to find it. It seems as if all the records run out in 1913, prehaps this is where the details were transferred to Kew. He was listed on my fathers marriage certificate as being a skipper in 1934 and he died of old age in Grimsby, date unknown so far.
> 
> John


John,
Making some guesses now:-
Was your Grandfather apprenticed as a fisherman in Grimsby?
If so, then John Wilson at the N.E.Lincs Archives will have that record I'm sure.
Many fishermen joined the RNR during the times that you give for your Grandfather's service. It is most likely that he joined also.
If that is the case, then the National Archives should have his service records. BT 377/7 is the index by name for the Trawler section.
Finally, do you have any addresses for John Smith in all of your data.
Address was sometimes written for a crewman in the ships crew list that you have quoted with the 208 prefix.
I have a 1911 local directory for Grimsby & Cleethorpes which I can look through if you have any addresses as a starting point.

Regards
Dave


----------



## johnblack5

mattarosa said:


> Hi John
> I agree, this is a wonderful site, with many knowledgeable and helpful members.
> 
> Re your question about books, "Out of Grimsby" by Alf May is about a fishing family and covers from the 1830s to the 1930s so far as I remember.
> 
> I'm sure other members will suggest others.
> 
> Good luck with your research.
> Hilary


Hi Hilary
I found a copy on Abebooks.com so I will be able to learn more on the lives of Trawlermen. Many thanks for your help.

John


----------



## johnblack5

johnblack5 said:


> Hi Dave
> I found an earlier record where he served on the St George GY83 as a deck hand age 21, info on NLEC site but I searched under Northwich to find it. It seems as if all the records run out in 1913, prehaps this is where the details were transferred to Kew. He was listed on my fathers marriage certificate as being a skipper in 1934 and he died of old age in Grimsby, date unknown so far.
> 
> John


Some more information concering the daughter Christine. She married a Benjamin Reynolds who was killed by a mine shortly after the war ended, one very unlucky man.

No	Surname
Rank
Service Number
Date Of Death
Age
Regiment/Service
Nationality
Grave/Memorial Ref.
Cemetery/Memorial Name

1 REYNOLDS, BENJAMIN THOMAS NICHOLSON 
Second Hand 24/04/1946 31	Fishing Fleet	United Kingdom	Panel 125.	TOWER HILL MEMORIAL

Ships listed are as follows: 

HMT Earl Essex 

Built 7/1/1914

Launched 1/4/1914

Earl Steam Fishing Co. Ltd Grimsby

Requisitioned by the RN August 1914 and used as a minesweeper Pennant No. FY 292

Between the wars she returned to Grimsby in her role as a fishing trawler.

Requisitioned by the RN November 1939 and used once again as a minesweeper Pennant No. FY 852

Returned 29/2/1946

24/4/1946 while fishing in the North Sea a mine got caught in the trawl and exploded sinking the vessel. Trawler Vera Grace that was fishing near to Earl Essex and had seen the explosion picked up only one survivor. 10 crew were lo


----------



## johnblack5

Roger Griffiths said:


> Hello John,
> It is important when searching for details of British vessels and in particular fishing boats that you use the vessels Official Number. This number is unique to the vessel no matter how many name changes and different ports she may have been registered at.
> For example ANSON O/N109835 on GY register 2/12/1898 GY976 lost 5/6/1904
> ANSON O/N 118943 on GY register 21/5/1905 GY47. Same name different vessel.
> That said I cannot find crew lists in the timescale for the vessels you mention.
> I think you would be better served looking for his Skippers certificates and working backwards.
> The following is From the National Archives website.
> 
> 
> 9. Later records, c. 1910 onwards
> From 1910, a combined index to masters, mates, engineers and skippers and mates of fishing boats was started to replace those formerly kept in registers (BT 127 , BT 138 and BT 141 ). The term index for this collection (as used in RGSS) is misleading: it is not an index to any other records. In effect it replaced the earlier registers and indexes and became a self-indexing register. It was kept in card form covering the period 1910 to 1930. It covers home and foreign trade and each card gives:
> 
> Name
> Certificate number
> Date of passing
> Date and place of birth
> Rating
> Port of examination
> The cards are of different colours depending on the type of qualification; white cards are for masters and mates, pink cards are for Engineers and green for Skippers and Mates of fishing boats. The index is available, on microfiche, as Index to Certificates of Competency, Masters, Mates, Engineers and Fishing Officers, Home and Foreign Trade, 1910-1930 (BT 352 ). Information found in this class often falls outside the nominal dates indicated.
> 
> Chronological registers of the issue, or reissue of certificates are to be found in:
> 
> BT 317 Registers of Masters and Mates Certificates Passings and Renewal (1917-1977)
> BT 318 Registers of Examinations for Certificates of Masters, Mates and Engineers, Returns of Passings and Failures (1928-1981)
> BT 320 Register of Engineers Passes and Renewals (1913-1935) [in process of transfer], these records are to be found at the National Maritime Museum under references RSS/ENG/5-6.
> BT 396 Registers of Passes and Renewals of Certificates of Competency for Fishing Officers (Skippers and 2nd hands) 1883-1959
> These registers give brief details of the issue of certificates. The entries are arranged in date order and give:
> 
> Date received
> Christian name
> When [examined]
> No
> Grade
> Port sent to
> Surname
> Port of examination
> Date
> 
> 
> Dave,
> I cannot find details of the previous names you mention for SATURN O/N 138985. As fare as I know she was taken by the RN directly from the builders and kept the name SATURN throughout her life. Could you give me your source please.
> 
> 
> Thanks and regards
> 
> Roger


Hello Roger

Many thanks for your input, I will forward it to my daughter who resides in London and can look at the records in Kew without me considering a bank loan. Initially all I had were the trawler names, these came from searching the NLEC archive, the numbers came after many hours searching on the internet, some were wrong.
I was only able to correct them when I received the crew lists which I purchased, they give the name and number so hopefully I now have them correct. 
By reading many of the messages on this web site and reading "Trawlers of Humberside" I am slowly learning about the business, I knew it was hard, but, not just how hard it really was for both husband and wife, it seems as if apprentices did not have an easy life either. 
The other part of the history can be seen by reading my notes to Dave, it concerns one of the daughters Christine and the Earl Essex (no ref).

Many thanks for your help.

John


----------



## johnblack5

davetodd said:


> John,
> Making some guesses now:-
> Was your Grandfather apprenticed as a fisherman in Grimsby?
> If so, then John Wilson at the N.E.Lincs Archives will have that record I'm sure.
> Many fishermen joined the RNR during the times that you give for your Grandfather's service. It is most likely that he joined also.
> If that is the case, then the National Archives should have his service records. BT 377/7 is the index by name for the Trawler section.
> Finally, do you have any addresses for John Smith in all of your data.
> Address was sometimes written for a crewman in the ships crew list that you have quoted with the 208 prefix.
> I have a 1911 local directory for Grimsby & Cleethorpes which I can look through if you have any addresses as a starting point.
> 
> Regards
> Dave


Hello Dave

I have found a web site where they will search the records of Sea Fishing Apprentices, for the NLEC you have to employ a searcher which I am loth to do at this stage.
I have the following address for Skipper Smith
Address 483 Weelsby St (1911)
Address 70 Cooper Road (1913)
Address 168 Barcroft St (1916)
Address 363 Grimsby Road (1917).

Second wife’s full name was Kate Eliza Vickers from Horncastle. They gave birth to a daughter Christine on the 11th November 1917 while living at 363 Grimsby Road, Cleethorpes.

You will see from the mail that I had a reply from a friend of your, it is good to be in the hands of experts.

John


----------



## johnblack5

Yorvick said:


> My father spent his working teenage years pre WW2 fishing the arctic circle on his father's trawler he has written a small journal describing his experiences - if you wish I can send extracts to you. His whole family going back many generations were fishermen from Grimsby and Hull, and he writes of 7 uncles who drowned honourably at sea. My gg Grandmother was widowed twice 1864 and 1880 by the death of her husbands at sea. But it did not stop her sons, nor her daughters becoming involved in the fishing industry. Just let me know if you are interested in seeing the extracts.


Hello
I would be very interested to read the extracts, what do you need, email address, or ?

Regards


John


----------



## davetodd

davetodd said:


> Roger,
> After checking my information, here are the sources:-
> Saturn GY976 WW1 Admiralty No.2971 from Dittmar & Colledge
> Saturn GY976 O.N. 138985 MGFC built 1916 Goole Owner Trawlers ( White Sea & Grimsby ) Ltd Grimsby from 1934 Olsen's Fishermans Nautical Almanack.
> Saturn FY823 WW2 from Lenton & Colledge
> Saturn GY976 O.N.138985 MGFC built 1916Goole Owner Trawlers Grimsby Ltd.
> from 1947 Olsen's Fisherman's Nautical Almanack.
> Macedonian GY976 O.N.138985 MGFC built 1916 Goole Owner Lindern Fishing Co.Ltd Grimsby from 1960 Olsen's Fisherman's Nautical Almanack.
> I now can see that the other names (Commander and Lindern) may be in error.
> These two names appear on the excellent FLOAT website when searching for Saturn or Macedonian. I'm sure you are familiar with this website Roger.
> Next week I will check Olsens entry for 1960 with Lloyds Register.
> Regards
> Dave


Roger

Checked the 1959 Lloyds Register and found the following:-
Macedonian O.N.138985 Owner Dominion Steam Fishing Co. Ltd.
Built Goole 1916 230GT 107NT length 102.2' beam 22'
ex Commander Lindern 51
ex Saturn 47

This then shows that FLOAT website is correct.

John,
Am still loking into the addresses you posted.

Regards
Dave


----------



## Roger Griffiths

Hello Dave,
Thanks for taking the time and trouble to do the look ups. I will update my records accordingly.
Next time I am at TNA I will try and get hold of her registry to see exactly when the name changes and change of owners occured.

Regards
Roger


----------



## johnblack5

davetodd said:


> Roger
> 
> Checked the 1959 Lloyds Register and found the following:-
> Macedonian O.N.138985 Owner Dominion Steam Fishing Co. Ltd.
> Built Goole 1916 230GT 107NT length 102.2' beam 22'
> ex Commander Lindern 51
> ex Saturn 47
> 
> This then shows that FLOAT website is correct.
> 
> John,
> Am still loking into the addresses you posted.
> 
> Regards
> Dave


Many thanks Dave, just received a copy of "Sea Fishing Apprenticeships of Grimsby" that is this evening taken care of. From a wee look inside it is a wonder any of them completed training, the Foreign Legion seems like the Boy Scouts in comparison.

From Google it seems the streets I listed still exist, what sort of area's are they now ? 

John


----------



## davetodd

John
1910-1911 Directory for Grimsby and Cleethorpes has the following:-

483 Weelsby Street Grimsby Occupant Wm.Draper Cabinet maker.
Weelsby St. was and probably still is the LONGEST street in Grimsby.
Built in the late 19th Century, the majority of these houses were terraced,two or three bedrooms,outside privvy,gas lighting,front door straight onto the street ,small backyard onto alleyway.
Residents had many and varied occupations.
Many of the original 500 or so houses are still there and occupied.

70 Cooper Road Occupant P.Graham Storeman.
This road is at the end of Weelsby St. and was built early 20th Century.
Terraced houses again, but slightly larger and better equipped than Weelsby St.
Three good sized bedrooms, four rooms downstairs outside toilet, Front garden, albeit small and a good sized back garden.
Residents tend to have trades.
My father and his parents etc. lived in the next road (Columbia Rd.) at this time (1912 onwards) Schools nearby and all the properties still occupied.

168 Barcroft Street Cleethorpes Occupant J.W.Hughes
Similar to Cooper Road but generally larger rooms.
Built around the same time as Cooper Road.
Schools on the doorstep and plenty of local shops etc.
Residents as Cooper Rd.
All properties fully occupied to date.
My Grandfather lived at 161 Barcroft St, before moving to Columbia Rd.

363 Grimsby Road Cleethorpes.Occupier Wm.Gillman Skipper.
These were and still are fine buildings in this area.

Large three or four bedrooms,bathroom,front and back gardens.
Residents are typically professional or in business.
Schools local as well as shops,churches etc.
Trams run past the front of the house.
Still command a high (local) price.
Looks like this John Smith progressed nicely up the property ladder, but having said that, most of the houses were rented in the period you are interested in.

Also bear in mind that the information for the directory may not be up to date nor is accuracy assured.

Best Regards
Dave


----------



## johnblack5

davetodd said:


> John
> 1910-1911 Directory for Grimsby and Cleethorpes has the following:-
> 
> 483 Weelsby Street Grimsby Occupant Wm.Draper Cabinet maker.
> Weelsby St. was and probably still is the LONGEST street in Grimsby.
> Built in the late 19th Century, the majority of these houses were terraced,two or three bedrooms,outside privvy,gas lighting,front door straight onto the street ,small backyard onto alleyway.
> Residents had many and varied occupations.
> Many of the original 500 or so houses are still there and occupied.
> 
> 70 Cooper Road Occupant P.Graham Storeman.
> This road is at the end of Weelsby St. and was built early 20th Century.
> Terraced houses again, but slightly larger and better equipped than Weelsby St.
> Three good sized bedrooms, four rooms downstairs outside toilet, Front garden, albeit small and a good sized back garden.
> Residents tend to have trades.
> My father and his parents etc. lived in the next road (Columbia Rd.) at this time (1912 onwards) Schools nearby and all the properties still occupied.
> 
> 168 Barcroft Street Cleethorpes Occupant J.W.Hughes
> Similar to Cooper Road but generally larger rooms.
> Built around the same time as Cooper Road.
> Schools on the doorstep and plenty of local shops etc.
> Residents as Cooper Rd.
> All properties fully occupied to date.
> My Grandfather lived at 161 Barcroft St, before moving to Columbia Rd.
> 
> 363 Grimsby Road Cleethorpes.Occupier Wm.Gillman Skipper.
> These were and still are fine buildings in this area.
> 
> Large three or four bedrooms,bathroom,front and back gardens.
> Residents are typically professional or in business.
> Schools local as well as shops,churches etc.
> Trams run past the front of the house.
> Still command a high (local) price.
> Looks like this John Smith progressed nicely up the property ladder, but having said that, most of the houses were rented in the period you are interested in.
> 
> Also bear in mind that the information for the directory may not be up to date nor is accuracy assured.
> 
> Best Regards
> Dave


Hello Dave

Many thanks for your excellent work, when I have some more detail in place I think I will have to drive to Grimsby. Maybe buy you a pint, or, two.
One of the stories I was told about my Grandfather was that when he got back from a voyage his wife complained about a new gas cooker. It appears that nobody at the Gas Board took any notice so he carried it out and put it on the tram lines, my guess is that he was then living at 363 Grimsby Road.
If, as we suspect he was a Grimsby apprentice then I can well believe it. If you could survive that you had to be really hard, my new book "Grimsby Fishing Apprentices" is mind boggling, while full of facts it is easy to read and when you think that this was only 100 years ago it is amazing.
Again, many thanks, it really is appreciated.

John


----------



## Steve Farrow

Hello John,
The book you have just aquired gives an amazing account of life on the sailing smacks that was endured by the appentices (and the other crew also).
If you can get your hands on Edward Gillett's, 'A History of Grimsby' it also gives a vivid account in a chapters called 'The arrival of the Smacks' and 'Smacks, Apprentices and Owners' It really paints an eye-opening picture of the corruption within the town amongst it's councillors and fishing vessel owners (many owners sat on the council and were magistrates and dished out sentences to their own crews).

Here is a photo of 363 Grimsby Road taken this morning....much moderised and up for sale! Quite a large house.

Regards

Steve


----------



## johnblack5

Steve Farrow said:


> Hello John,
> The book you have just aquired gives an amazing account of life on the sailing smacks that was endured by the appentices (and the other crew also).
> If you can get your hands on Edward Gillett's, 'A History of Grimsby' it also gives a vivid account in a chapters called 'The arrival of the Smacks' and 'Smacks, Apprentices and Owners' It really paints an eye-opening picture of the corruption within the town amongst it's councillors and fishing vessel owners (many owners sat on the council and were magistrates and dished out sentences to their own crews).
> 
> Here is a photo of 363 Grimsby Road taken this morning....much moderised and up for sale! Quite a large house.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Steve


Hello Steve

Many thanks for your message and especially the photograph. I will have a look for the book you describe. Some of the reports in my book are really shocking, many of these lads died throught sheer negligence.. Corruption on councils seems to be continuing in 2008, at least there are now a FEW rules.
I am waiting for some birth certificates to arrive, they should show me if he moved again, possibly to Cleethorpes where his daughter Christine was married.
Photo shows my latest hobby, model engineering.
Again many thanks.

John


----------



## johnblack5

Hi Dave
Sally made her first visit to the National Archives in Kew, she was amazed at the size of the place, a reading room like a football field. It takes some time to find your way around and work out how to use the various machines, all very impressive.
Anyway, she found my greandfathers records under the Certificates of competency, 2nd hand in 1910 and Skipper status in 1912 which all ties in with the crew lists I have, it seems that the Gadra was his first role as Skipper. The certificates were issued in Grimsby. Next week Sally will make another visit and we should get some copies.

Best wishes


John


----------



## Steve Farrow

John,
I don't know if you have a photo of the Gadra, so I have attached one here!

Steve


----------



## johnblack5

Hello Steve
Many thanks for the photo, his first ship as Skipper, I am learing a lot about Grimsby and fishing really fast. Did you see my reply to Dave about his certificates, all received in Grimsby. Dave is also looking for a photo. I have lots of books on marine steam engines, even a full set of works drawings for a triple expansion engine. Would the Gadra have a compound engine ?

Many thanks

John


----------



## davetodd

johnblack5 said:


> Hello Steve
> Many thanks for the photo, his first ship as Skipper, I am learing a lot about Grimsby and fishing really fast. Did you see my reply to Dave about his certificates, all received in Grimsby. Dave is also looking for a photo. I have lots of books on marine steam engines, even a full set of works drawings for a triple expansion engine. Would the Gadra have a compound engine ?
> 
> Many thanks
> 
> John


Hello John
I'm sure Steve is monitoring your replies when he can.
Regarding the engine for Gadra, I will check Lloyds Register for the engine type.
The L.R. usually give cylinder sizes (dia.) and stroke length.
Guess she was a triple.But will check.
Think I know what you're looking for since I served my apprenticeship on trawler engines in Grimsby.Steam and Diesel types.
Sailed for many years with both types in the Merchant Navy from 1958 to 1975.
You might like to look for my posts entitled "From Dad's Diary" in the Fishing vessels forum.
This is an engineers diary of two GY fishing vessels during 1953, my father was Chief Engineer on both.
Hope you gain some insight from the entries.
Regards
Dave
P.S. Fine looking workmanship on your model attached earlier.
Well done.


----------



## johnblack5

Thanks again Dave, I will have a look at the engineers diary. It seems we have a mutual friend, Jennie from the Library, she has been most helpful.
My father served his time with Yarwoods in Northwich and was a superb craftsman.

John


----------



## treeve

*GY 263 Sea Lady (?)*

I am trying to identify just when Sea Lady was GY 263; others with that Port Reg are Agile, Stella Canopus and Cradock but that was all before 1954(?); Sea Lady was a Belgian built vessel, Ostende 1948, became BM 10 Sea Lady in 1972. Headed for Grimsby after that date. Later history is (BA263) (*PZ 582* ) (OB167) (PL 20), but I have as yet found no record of her under the reported subsequent name of Marlene Ellen. Any advice please, I have searched Penzance Registers 1970-1990 and Defra/Maaf lists 1996-2006. Best Wishes, Raymond


----------



## billblow

Raymond
Sea Lady GY 263 ON 359890 in my 1978 Olsen's at Grimsby. Owner John Nicklin and Others Cleethorpes. Sorry don't know when she came or when she went.
Bill


----------



## treeve

Thank you Bill, that ON is vital to be able to check, as I will have to go through the shipping Registers again, she may not have had the name reported. Now I can make my start date no earlier than 1978. Best Wishes, Raymond


----------



## johnblack5

Your Dad's diaries are really interesting, it must be the most unusual shopping trip ever, beats Sainsbury's. Your diaries must be equally interesting, I have read of some amazing repairs to triple expansion engines.

John


----------



## johnblack5

*Out of Grimsby by Alf May*



johnblack5 said:


> Hi Hilary
> I found a copy on Abebooks.com so I will be able to learn more on the lives of Trawlermen. Many thanks for your help.
> 
> John


Hello Hilary
I really found this book rewarding, especially after reading "Sea fishing Appretices of Grimsby". Alfs book showed very clearly how the dangers inherent in sea fishing together with unemployment affected Grimsby family life. It showed how people overcame these terrible hardships by helping one another and how this really was a situation which only existed in sea fishing commuities working in dangerous waters. The book left me feeling great admiration for the people of Grimsby who lived through such times. I know that my Grandfather must have suffered many of those hardships. 

Best wishes


John


----------



## sallyann-1958

Has anyone any Images of the Drangey?


----------



## johnblack5

Hi Dave
Just where among all the Lloys gen is the register you use.

John


----------



## davetodd

Hello John,
My local Reference Library in Grimsby has a good range of Maritime publications including many years publication of Lloyds Registers.
If you are considering carrying out your own research the following may be of help.
If your local library in the UK do not have copies of these registers I'm sure they will be able to tell you where to find them. 
These are large, heavy volumes, (usually more than one volume per year)
The outer cover of each indicates where they originally came from e.g. Port of Spain Trinidad Pilot. Grimsby Lloyds Surveyor Office etc.
They are arranged in vessel name alphabetical order and contain a vast amount of information.
Consequently, if a search is started for a particular vessel it is essential that one has the following:-
Name of vessel. (Watch out for names which are initials only)
Which year the vessel had that name. (Name change is not uncommon)
Country of registration in that year.
Additionally, the type of vessel may be relevant, since it is common for more than one vessel to have the same name in the same year and registered in the same country. (If the tonnage is known this may help discriminate between two or more vessels of the same name in the same year of the same type registered in the same country)
The more information the better.
I have spent some time going through selected years to identify some vessels, photographs of which are held in the Grimsby Library.
I do not always have success.
Hope this answers your query.
Best Regards
Dave


----------



## davetodd

Hello Sallyann-1958.
If you can get to the Grimsby Library, Reference section, they can let you look at three photo's of the Drangey GY126 ON162893 built 1934 at Selby.
One of the photographs shows her as owned by Rinovia S.F.Co.Ltd of Grimsby and two as the WW2 requisitioned Anti-Submarine Trawler Pennant No. FY195.
Best Regards
Dave


----------



## Steve Farrow

*Drangey*

hi Sallyanne,

Here two photo's of the Drangey as a thumnails

Regards

Steve


----------



## billblow

Hello Sallyann-1958
Both photo's Steve's sent you are pre-war with that Grimsby port registry number of GY 126. The funnel is grey with black cap and the flag is the Icelandic national flag, this was the funnel livery of the Rinovia Steam Fishing Co Ltd of Grimsby.
After war service she returned to Grimsby with the port registry number GY 280 and was sold to H Croft Baker and Sons who renamed her Mildenhall, sadly the Mildenhall was lost 1/11/1948 on the Murmansk Coast.
Bill


----------



## johnblack5

Many thanks Steve, I will check with Taunton Library. I thought you might have found some way og getting into Lloyds direct.
Time to relax now after a morning on the lathe.

John


----------



## treeve

*GY 263 Sea Lady*

I have searched again, through the FV Registers, and found (it was entered in another Register than the one expected).
Ex BA 272 MARLENE ELLEN PZ 582 
Built 1948 Ostend Belgium 
Motor Trawler
Overall Length of Hull 57.7 feet
Length 51.3 feet
Breadth 16.7 feet
Depth 6.3 feet
Tonnage Gross 24.29; Net 24.29
Crew 4
Registered 18th April 1978
Skipper J O'Connor
Owner E L Fisheries Ltd, 17 Market Place, Penzance
3rd December 1982 Registry Cancelled, Vessel transferred to Isle of Man.

In 1978 then she was registered Penzance, until 1982 when she became IOM.


----------



## johnblack5

johnblack5 said:


> Hello Dave
> 
> I have found a web site where they will search the records of Sea Fishing Apprentices, for the NLEC you have to employ a searcher which I am loth to do at this stage.
> I have the following address for Skipper Smith
> Address 483 Weelsby St (1911)
> Address 70 Cooper Road (1913)
> Address 168 Barcroft St (1916)
> Address 363 Grimsby Road (1917).
> 
> Second wife’s full name was Kate Eliza Vickers from Horncastle. They gave birth to a daughter Christine on the 11th November 1917 while living at 363 Grimsby Road, Cleethorpes.
> 
> You will see from the mail that I had a reply from a friend of your, it is good to be in the hands of experts.
> 
> John



Dave

I have some additions to this information:

On the 31st Mar 1924 Shipper Smith and his wife Kate Eliza, formerly Vickers had a son named Ernest Smith, his address is given as being 
362 Cleethorpes Road, Grimsby. Sadly the marriage only lasted until the end of the war when his trawler his a mine.

In addition I now have the marriage certificate for his daughter Christine. She married Benjamin Thompson Nicholson Reynolds on the 26 Dec 1938, Benjamin was a Skipper as was his father John Francis Reynolds, their address is given as being 90 Grimsby Road.

It seems that a large part of my family were dedicated to the sea. Maybe someone reading this may recognise something leading to more detailed information.


Regards



John


----------



## mattarosa

johnblack5 said:


> Hello Hilary
> I really found this book rewarding, especially after reading "Sea fishing Appretices of Grimsby". Alfs book showed very clearly how the dangers inherent in sea fishing together with unemployment affected Grimsby family life. It showed how people overcame these terrible hardships by helping one another and how this really was a situation which only existed in sea fishing commuities working in dangerous waters. The book left me feeling great admiration for the people of Grimsby who lived through such times. I know that my Grandfather must have suffered many of those hardships.
> 
> Best wishes
> 
> 
> John


Hi John
I am glad you found it helpful.
Kind regards
Hilary


----------



## johnblack5

davetodd said:


> Hello John
> Russell Steam trawler O.N.123585 built 1906 at Beverley 248 gross tons for A.Grant GY192 Served as minesweeper from 1915 for R.N. as Russell II
> Then with H.L.Taylor Owner. Broken up in 1957.
> 
> Anson Steam trawler O.N. 118943 built 1905 at Beverley 83 net tons
> In 1934 the owner was Chas.Dobson port no.GY47. Nothing further known.
> 
> Godra?
> Could this be ?
> GADRA Steam trawler O.N. 127847 built 1909 at Beverley 219 gross tons 106 net tons. Owner Howe S.F.Co. GY485. ( One photograph at Grimsby Library )
> Mined 1941.
> 
> Hope this is of some help.
> 
> Best Regards
> Dave


Hi Dave
Did you manage to find the photo of the Gadra in the Library ?. It was a delight for me to find on the Marriage Certificate for my grandfathers daughter Christine that there were 3 people, all Skippers, John Francis Reynolds, Benjamin Thompson Nicholson Reynolds, and John Smith.

Have a nice weekend

John


----------



## davetodd

johnblack5 said:


> Hi Dave
> Did you manage to find the photo of the Gadra in the Library ?. It was a delight for me to find on the Marriage Certificate for my grandfathers daughter Christine that there were 3 people, all Skippers, John Francis Reynolds, Benjamin Thompson Nicholson Reynolds, and John Smith.
> 
> Have a nice weekend
> 
> John


Hello John
The library have one photograph of GADRA.
Not very clear and is taken of her on the slipway at Grimsby Fish Dock probably 1920's.
There is obvious damage to the bow on the port side and much chalked words eg.OFF.
That is all I have found so far.

More info. from Lloyds Register for 1921-1922.

Russel ON 123585 Captain F.W.Lane
GT246 NT100 built 1906 Cook,Welton&Gemmell Beverley
Owner W.Grant L.125 B.22 D.11.8Triple expansion Steam Engine by C.D.Holmes of Hull HP12.5" MP22" LP35" Stroke 24" 70RHP Boiler Press.180

Gadra ON 127847 Captain J.G.Larne 
GT219 NT106 built 1909 Cook,Welton&Gemmell Beverley
Owner Grant&Baker S.F.Co.Ltd. L.117 B.21.6 D.11.5 T3exp by Great Central Eng.Co.Ltd HP12" MP21.5" LP34" Stroke24" 69RHP Boiler Press 180

Saturn ON 138985 Captain S.Wood
GT230 NT107 built1916 Goole Ship Buil'g Co.Ltd.
Owner Grimsby&NorthSea Steam Trawling Co. J.R.Mackrill mgr.
L.120.2 B.22.0 D.12.1 T3exp by C.D.Holmes of Hull HP12.5"MP21.5" LP35" Stroke 24" 76RHP Boiler Press 180

By the way, can you be more precise regarding when John Smith died in 1934?
There may be an entry in the local paper archives.

Best Regards
Dave


----------



## johnblack5

Hello Dave
Many thanks for the information. The year 1934 was the year he attended my fathers wedding, we do not know at this stage just when he died. Sally is mailing me a copy of his skippers certificate.
I checked with Taunton Library but drew a blank, they are going to determine just what they could get hold off.
We found a later address for 1924 362 Cleethorpes Road , Cleethorpes , is this another step up the ladder ?.

I hope you are enjoying the same sunshine as we are in Taunton.

Best wishes


John


----------



## Gordon Stewart

*HMT Strephon*



Clem said:


> Hi everyone, here is a list of vessels I'm currently researching. So if anyone reading this has any information of any kind relating to these vessels (including pics), please let me know by posting here or by PM.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Clem
> 
> GY6	Ross Kelly
> GY19	Stockham
> GY22	Northern Eagle
> GY65	Lancer
> GY68	Tagalie
> GY110	Northern Princess
> GY121	Northern Prince
> GY142	Northern Sea
> GY148	Spurs
> GY190	Northern Spray
> GY204	Northern Gem
> GY245	Euryalus
> GY249	British
> GY263	Cradock
> GY280	Mildenhall
> GY289	Northern Dawn
> GY333	Boston Valetta
> GY354	Peken
> GY389	Taipo
> GY395	Lifeguard
> GY427	Northern Sky
> GY440	Northern Sun
> GY453	Kyoto
> GY457	Clixby
> GY467	Digby
> GY484	Port Vale
> GY507	Recordo
> GY511	Varanis
> GY596	Boston Coronet
> GY600	Osako
> GY625	Recono
> GY661	Tokio
> GY664	Lemberg
> GY679	Garola
> GY689	Okino
> GY810	Strephon
> GY1037	War Duke
> GY1306	Xylopia
> GY1367	Kirmington
> GY	Katie Louise
> GY	Efficient


Hi Clem,
I'm new to this forum but have come across this message from you regarding the Grimsby trawlers. My father served in HMT Strephon during the second world war and was based out of Aberdeen. My father passed away several years ago and I can't be certain that this is the same Strephon you are looking for information on. 
I have scanned his wartime photo album which has quite a few of the wartime trawlers including Strephon. They are posted here- http://picasaweb.google.com.au/gstewart49/JimmyStewart02 
If you wanted better scans of particular pictures please let me know and I will see what I can do. When I was young my father was a keen model maker and made a very nice model of the Strephon which I now own. 

Regards

Gordon Stewart


----------



## mattarosa

*Strephon*

I haven't contributed very much lately as I have been very busy at work. 

Here are a few stray refs to the Strephon from the Times.

The Times, Friday, Nov 17, 1933
CASUALTY REPORTS (from Lloyds)
JOSEPH BURGIN – Grimsby, Nov 16 – Steam trawler Joseph Burgin, of Grimsby, reported sunk at sea. Master and crew of nine hands all told were landed at Grimsby this afternoon by Grimsby trawler Strephon.

The Times, Monday, Sep 04, 1939
TRAWLER CREW RESCUED
Early yesterday morning the Wick lifeboat City of Edinburgh rescued 13 members of the crew of the Grimsby trawler Navarre, which went ashore in dense fog with high seas running at Skirsa Head, Caithness. Because of the rocks the lifeboat could not reach the trawler, and two members of the crew were rescued by breeches buoy. The Grimsby trawler Strephon then arrived, but attempts to tow the Navarre off by the Strephon and the lifeboat failed. Finally, after great difficulty, the lifeboat manoeuvred its way as near the Navarre as possible, and the remaining 11 members of the crew jumped on to the lifeboat.

The Times, Wednesday, Jan 19, 1955
LIFEBOAT FROM MISSING TRAWLER SEEN
The owners of the missing trawler Gipsy Queen (114 tons), last heard of a week ago when fishing off the Danish coast, received a report that a ship’s lifeboat with markings LT.166 had been seen last Thursday. The report originated from the Grimsby trawler Strephon. The Gipsy Queen left Lowestoft on January 9 on a fishing trip. She is owned by the West Hartlepool Steam Navigation Co Ltd.

Hilary


----------



## mattarosa

*Gadra*

And a very brief ref to the GADRA.

The Times, Thursday, Feb 17, 1921
The Grimsby trawler Gadra was sunk in the Humber on Tuesday night after collision with another trawler, but no lives were lost.

Hilary


----------



## Steve Farrow

Hi Gordon,
Here are a couple of thumbnails of the STREPHON

regards

Steve


----------



## Gordon Stewart

Thanks Steve. For a while there I thought your ship and the one from my fathers album must have been different ships but when I looked closely I could pick up some unmistakable details like the wheelhouse windows. I'm guessing your photos are pre-war (?) and that the flybridge on top of the house in my fathers photos were added by the RN.


----------



## Steve Farrow

Hi Gordon,
I would say that both of the photo's were taken in the 1950's (Morris Minor in the background). The one of her alongside the coal-hoists shows no radar scanner, so I would assume mid 50's. The fly bridge was definately added when she was converted into a mine-sweeper in 1940.
I have just posted a painting of mine in the Gallery.

Regards

Steve


----------



## davetodd

Steve Farrow said:


> Hi Gordon,
> I would say that both of the photo's were taken in the 1950's (Morris Minor in the background). The one of her alongside the coal-hoists shows no radar scanner, so I would assume mid 50's. The fly bridge was definately added when she was converted into a mine-sweeper in 1940.
> I have just posted a painting of mine in the Gallery.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Steve


Steve is right, I would add that it is the early to mid fifties.
Steve's first thumbnail shows at left a steam trawler alongside on the North Wall.
Usually trawlers woud lie here to receive fuel oil from barges.
Also can be seen further to the right, a vessel stem on to the North Wall
which looks like a Lancer/Bombadier type of oil burning steam trawler.
This type were built 1949 onwards.
Regards
Dave


----------



## johnblack5

davetodd said:


> Hello John
> The library have one photograph of GADRA.
> Not very clear and is taken of her on the slipway at Grimsby Fish Dock probably 1920's.
> There is obvious damage to the bow on the port side and much chalked words eg.OFF.
> That is all I have found so far.
> 
> More info. from Lloyds Register for 1921-1922.
> 
> Russel ON 123585 Captain F.W.Lane
> GT246 NT100 built 1906 Cook,Welton&Gemmell Beverley
> Owner W.Grant L.125 B.22 D.11.8Triple expansion Steam Engine by C.D.Holmes of Hull HP12.5" MP22" LP35" Stroke 24" 70RHP Boiler Press.180
> 
> Gadra ON 127847 Captain J.G.Larne
> GT219 NT106 built 1909 Cook,Welton&Gemmell Beverley
> Owner Grant&Baker S.F.Co.Ltd. L.117 B.21.6 D.11.5 T3exp by Great Central Eng.Co.Ltd HP12" MP21.5" LP34" Stroke24" 69RHP Boiler Press 180
> 
> Saturn ON 138985 Captain S.Wood
> GT230 NT107 built1916 Goole Ship Buil'g Co.Ltd.
> Owner Grimsby&NorthSea Steam Trawling Co. J.R.Mackrill mgr.
> L.120.2 B.22.0 D.12.1 T3exp by C.D.Holmes of Hull HP12.5"MP21.5" LP35" Stroke 24" 76RHP Boiler Press 180
> 
> By the way, can you be more precise regarding when John Smith died in 1934?
> There may be an entry in the local paper archives.
> 
> Best Regards
> Dave


Hello Dave
There are many references to C D Holmes of Hull on the web, it seems they built both the complete thing, engine and all.
I am not getting any further with my search for Captain Smith career after 1913. A gentleman, Terry found this reference in the list of apprentices:

Apprentice..............Date indentured..............Ref. no/ Reg. / Page
SMITH John.......... 30 Nov 1904...................... 208 / 1 / 12 / 6

But, since providing this data has not been in contact. Even the Vicar at the church where Tina was married, St Aidans has left for a new job and phones go unanswered. I thought that with his latest move to Cleethorpes Road he may be buried there. Still, nothing like a challenge is there.
I thought my book list may be of interest to you:
The Marine Steam Engine by Sennet and Oram
Marine Engineering Practice by Drover
Verbal Notes and Sketches by Sothern, 2 vols
The Marine Power Plant by Chapman
Board of Trade Orals. Marine Engineering Knowledge
Modern Steam Practice and Engineering by John G Winton massive 1117 pages
A Manual of Marine Engineering by Seaton.

You probably used some of these books yourself. Now all very difficult to find.

Many thanks for all your help


John


----------



## johnblack5

Hi Dave
I now have a copy of my Grandfathers certificate, not a lot of information on it but here goes.
John Smith dob 1884 Northwich Cheshire
Certificate 10474 2nd hand 04-10-1910
Certificate " Skipper 30-03-1912

Port of examination Grimsby.

At least I now have a do***ent.

Regards


John


----------



## davetodd

johnblack5 said:


> Hello Dave
> Many thanks for the information. The year 1934 was the year he attended my fathers wedding, we do not know at this stage just when he died. Sally is mailing me a copy of his skippers certificate.
> I checked with Taunton Library but drew a blank, they are going to determine just what they could get hold off.
> We found a later address for 1924 362 Cleethorpes Road , Cleethorpes , is this another step up the ladder ?.
> 
> I hope you are enjoying the same sunshine as we are in Taunton.
> 
> Best wishes
> 
> 
> John


Hello John
Getting a bit confused with the addresses you have submitted:-
1917:- 363 Grimsby Road (Grimsby Road is in Cleethorpes)
1924:- 362 Cleethorpe Road Cleethorpes (Cleethorpe Road is in Grimsby)
Can you verify house numbers and street/road,town and dates?
If they came from a BMD cert. then they are probably correct.
Dave.


----------



## johnblack5

Hi Dave

The addresses came from certificates:

362 Grimsby Road coming from Ernest certificate in 1924
363 Grimsby Road coming from Christines certificate in 1917

I thought the same thing when I saw the numbers but assumed that they were different roads. 

I have today received the following from Taunton.

John

Attached is a link that may help.

National Maritime Museum http://www.nmm.ac.uk/server/show/conWebDoc.588
This page gives research advice and has contact details for National Archive, Southampton City Archive http://www.southampton.gov.uk/leisure/localhistoryandheritage/archives/services/enquiry.asp and the Registry of Shipping and Seamen. Unfortunately most archives and museums etc. will charge a fee for research (unlike libraries, who tend to do all research free of charge).

Regards
Jeremy Speck
Information Librarian

I will see if there is anything I can use and let you know.


John


----------



## c/o george clifford

Clem said:


> Hi everyone, I've started this thread to discuss Grimsby fishing vessels. I'm in the process of compiling a database of the above and, would welcome any contributions on this theme. ie. photo's, stories of life on board, histories of the vessels etc.
> 
> Hopefully as this thread develops, it can become a reference point for people with similar interests.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Clem


I'm interested in vessels around 1880/1890's, especially Sando, steam codman, that steamed out of Grimsby 13th Nov 1889. It was shipwrecked off Iceland . I have family connections to this vessel. 
In April 1939 an article was written by one of the surviving sailors, 50 years after the event. (See Grimsby Telegraph, and reprinted Nov13th 2000.


----------



## mattarosa

c/o george clifford said:


> I'm interested in vessels around 1880/1890's, especially Sando, steam codman, that steamed out of Grimsby 13th Nov 1889. It was shipwrecked off Iceland . I have family connections to this vessel.
> In April 1939 an article was written by one of the surviving sailors, 50 years after the event. (See Grimsby Telegraph, and reprinted Nov13th 2000.



I have posted some references to a trawler called Sando under your other thread (Sando shipwreck). If this was the same trawler, it was not shipwrecked in 1889/90 but went missing for 5 months icebound.

There are also some other stories as Sando seemed to be a trawler in the news quite often.

Hope something there is of help.

Hilary


----------



## johnblack5

Hello Dave
Exciting news, My Grandfather John Smith was a fishing apprentice, A gentleman named Terry has sent me a copy of his page in the records.
His address in Northwich fits so I am 100% sure it his him.
It states that the port and registry of ship is Nero, any info on that name ?
It shows his Saving Bank details but not very clearly, Terry is going to send me enlargements. My book "Sea fishing apprentices of Grimsby" now really means something.

John


----------



## johnblack5

More info Dave, I managed to zoom in on the page.
Name of master was: Orient S J & Co Ltd
Bound for 4 years 7/12/1887-30/11/1904
Lived at 40 Grafton Street, Grimsby
Previos job, working in a leather factory. 
All his reports were excellent. Good lad.

John


----------



## billblow

*Nero GY 718*

johnblack5
Trawler Nero GY 718
Built 1898 by Mackie and Thomson at Govan
Gross tonnage 150
Owned by the Orient Steam Fishing Co Ltd Grimsby
Sold to Norway 03/1904
Funnel livery for the Orient Steam Fishing Co attached
Bill


----------



## davetodd

davetodd said:


> Hello John
> Getting a bit confused with the addresses you have submitted:-
> 1917:- 363 Grimsby Road (Grimsby Road is in Cleethorpes)
> 1924:- 362 Cleethorpe Road Cleethorpes (Cleethorpe Road is in Grimsby)
> Can you verify house numbers and street/road,town and dates?
> If they came from a BMD cert. then they are probably correct.
> Dave.


John
Some anomolies seem to be creeping in regarding John Smith.

In one of your postings you give his dob as 1884 Northwich, yet his apprenticeship you give as 7/12/87 to 30/11/04.

Perhaps the start date is really 7/12/1897?

Further to the addresses you gave.
A look through the electoral rolls at Grimsby library shows that
1918, 363 Grimsby Rd. Cleethorpes have John Smith and Kate Eliza Smith
listed as registered voters.

These names do not appear at this address after 1918. I looked up to 1932.

362 Grimsby Rd. Cleethorpes did not exist in 1924 (the address from the birth cert. for Christine)

In fact, the houses on the opposite side to 363 were not built until after
1930.

Time for a recap I would suggest and make sure that with a name like John Smith you have not switched tracks along the way.

Dave


----------



## johnblack5

davetodd said:


> Lord Jellicoe built 1962 had a fishing reg as H228.
> Transferred to Grimsby in 1963 and had fishing reg as GY 709.
> Transferred to Colne Shipping of Lowestoft in 1981, presumably kept GY709 until then.
> As far as I can see Ross Revenge had GY718 from1969 to 1979.
> 
> But of course I could be wrong.
> 
> Best of luck
> Dave


Hi Dave

On John Smith appreticeship papers it lists under name and port register NERO. When I searched under Heart of Oak it gives me the following:

Nero, Starbank, Lord Rothchild and finally Ross Revenge with the number GY718, would this be the trawler on which he was trained.

John


----------



## billblow

johnblack5
Starbank GY 718 came to Grimsby from Aberdeen in 1915 and immediatly changed her name to Lord Rothschild Gy 718. Ross Revenge GY 718 not until 07/1964
Billblow


----------



## johnblack5

davetodd said:


> John
> Some anomolies seem to be creeping in regarding John Smith.
> 
> In one of your postings you give his dob as 1884 Northwich, yet his apprenticeship you give as 7/12/87 to 30/11/04.
> 
> Perhaps the start date is really 7/12/1897?
> 
> Further to the addresses you gave.
> A look through the electoral rolls at Grimsby library shows that
> 1918, 363 Grimsby Rd. Cleethorpes have John Smith and Kate Eliza Smith
> listed as registered voters.
> 
> These names do not appear at this address after 1918. I looked up to 1932.
> 
> 362 Grimsby Rd. Cleethorpes did not exist in 1924 (the address from the birth cert. for Christine)
> 
> In fact, the houses on the opposite side to 363 were not built until after
> 1930.
> 
> Time for a recap I would suggest and make sure that with a name like John Smith you have not switched tracks along the way.
> 
> Dave


Dave, first the recap then the apologies;

1.0 DOB is correct 7/12/1884.
2.0 Date of indenture-30-11-04 which I think is 30-11-1904 20 yrs of age
3.0 Date of registry 17-12-04
4.0 Date of confirming indenture 30-1-05 which I think is 30-01-1905
5.0 Term served 14-12-08 which I think is 30-1-1908 age 24

I have a birth certificate for Ernest Smith, DOB 31 st Mar 1924, parents Kate Eliza Smith formerly Vickers and John Smith, skipper, where born is 362 Cleethorpes Road Grimsby.

I have a birth certificate for Christine Smith DOB 11 Nov 1917, parents as above with the address of 363 Grimsby Road Cleethorpes.

From the crew list for the Gadra I have his address as being 70 Cooper Road, Grimsby the date being Jan 1913.

From the birth certificate of my father in 1911 I have the address of 483 Weelsby St Grimsby when he was married to his first wife Catherine Alexander Smith, formerly Hallifax, spelling correct two l's.

168 Barcroft Street is where they were living when Catherine died.

It looks as if I cocked up the apprentice dates but everything else I have check with the certificates.

I will attempt to attach a copy of the apprentice file for you.


John


----------



## johnblack5

johnblack5 said:


> Hi Dave
> 
> On John Smith appreticeship papers it lists under name and port register NERO. When I searched under Heart of Oak it gives me the following:
> 
> Nero, Starbank, Lord Rothchild and finally Ross Revenge with the number GY718, would this be the trawler on which he was trained.
> 
> John





davetodd said:


> Hello John
> Getting a bit confused with the addresses you have submitted:-
> 1917:- 363 Grimsby Road (Grimsby Road is in Cleethorpes)
> 1924:- 362 Cleethorpe Road Cleethorpes (Cleethorpe Road is in Grimsby)
> Can you verify house numbers and street/road,town and dates?
> If they came from a BMD cert. then they are probably correct.
> Dave.


Dave

I have tried to send you a copy of the apprentice log but it fails to load, too large I guess, I will try again.

John


----------



## johnblack5

johnblack5 said:


> Dave
> 
> I have tried to send you a copy of the apprentice log but it fails to load, too large I guess, I will try again.
> 
> John


File too big, any ideas ?.

John


----------



## johnblack5

billblow said:


> johnblack5
> Trawler Nero GY 718
> Built 1898 by Mackie and Thomson at Govan
> Gross tonnage 150
> Owned by the Orient Steam Fishing Co Ltd Grimsby
> Sold to Norway 03/1904
> Funnel livery for the Orient Steam Fishing Co attached
> Bill


Hello Bill

Many thanks for the picture. It seems that she ended her days with Radio Caroline, they have a super site showing lots of pictures.
http://www.rossrevenge.co.uk/history.htm, It looks a very modern ship.
Would this be the one my grandfather would have served on as an apprentice ?.

Regards



John


----------



## davetodd

SLOW DOWN johnblack.
Hearts of Oak site shows some of the different vessels that carried that 
GY 718 number.
Bill told you that Ross revenge didn't get GY 718 until July 1964.
Regarding the image size:-
If you have "Paint" as an option, scan your image to "Paint" then choose the "Skew" option from the edit file.
Reduce to a 200 or 300kb size.
Try again.
Best of luck
Dave


----------



## johnblack5

davetodd said:


> SLOW DOWN johnblack.
> Hearts of Oak site shows some of the different vessels that carried that
> GY 718 number.
> Bill told you that Ross revenge didn't get GY 718 until July 1964.
> Regarding the image size:-
> If you have "Paint" as an option, scan your image to "Paint" then choose the "Skew" option from the edit file.
> Reduce to a 200 or 300kb size.
> Try again.
> Best of luck
> Dave



Sorry Dave, I thought that once you were given a GY number then that was it, it seems it is a number that can be moved to another boat.

I have skewed at 50 % so will give it a try.

I think that the 362/363 business is simply an error made at the time the certificates were written, not the first mistake I have come across.


John


----------



## johnblack5

I had to go down to 25% for it to work.

John


----------



## johnblack5

Hi Steve
The local library obtained the book by Gillet, very interesting times, from pirates to fishermen. It must have been like the wild west on a saturday night.

Regards


John


----------



## johnblack5

Hi Dave
I will ask for a copy of Bessie Smiths birth certificate, she was born in 1921. My reason for getting Ernests bith certificate was to find his last address but as 362 Cleethorpe road does not exist I am left with a problem.
I assume your records show another name occuppying 363 Grimsby Road after 1918. Ernests bith certificate gives Kate Eliza formerly Vickers as his mother and John Smith Skipper as his father. I will also ask the NELC registration people to double check the address.

Regards


John


----------



## Steve Farrow

Hi John,
The book is rather heavy going but a great insight into the development of Grimsby............and yes a bit like the wild west I suppose with the meteoric rise of the fishing industry, all helped by the new railway infrastructure. Alas, all but disappeared now! It went as fast as it came but the trawler owners had a good hundred years.
Regards
Steve


----------



## davetodd

johnblack5 said:


> Hi Dave
> I will ask for a copy of Bessie Smiths birth certificate, she was born in 1921. My reason for getting Ernests bith certificate was to find his last address but as 362 Cleethorpe road does not exist I am left with a problem.
> I assume your records show another name occuppying 363 Grimsby Road after 1918. Ernests bith certificate gives Kate Eliza formerly Vickers as his mother and John Smith Skipper as his father. I will also ask the NELC registration people to double check the address.
> 
> Regards
> 
> 
> John


John
Confusion still reigns.
On June 10 2008 you posted 362 & 363 Grimsby Rd as the birth place from certificates.
Grimsby Road is in Cleethorpes.
On June 12 2008 I posted to let you know that 362 GRIMSBY ROAD CLEETHORPES did not exist in that time frame.
362 CLEETHORPE ROAD did exist and in 1910/11 the occupant of that house was given as Mrs.James Alward.
Time for another recap perhaps.
Best Regards
Dave


----------



## johnblack5

davetodd said:


> John
> Confusion still reigns.
> On June 10 2008 you posted 362 & 363 Grimsby Rd as the birth place from certificates.
> Grimsby Road is in Cleethorpes.
> On June 12 2008 I posted to let you know that 362 GRIMSBY ROAD CLEETHORPES did not exist in that time frame.
> 362 CLEETHORPE ROAD did exist and in 1910/11 the occupant of that house was given as Mrs.James Alward.
> Time for another recap perhaps.
> Best Regards
> Dave


Hi Dave
If we take the electorial roll for 1918 then we have Kate and John living at 363 Grimsby Rd, Cleethorpes. 
We have Christines bith certificate dated 11 Nov 1917 also giving 363 Grimsby Rd, Cleethorpes, as the address.
That all seems to be OK
Then we have Ernest birth certificate 31st Mar 1924 address 362 Cleethorpes Road, Grimsby. 
So I assume the family in 1924 were living in 362 Cleethorpes Road, Grimsby

Is this now correct.


John


----------



## johnblack5

Hi Steve
How did the apprentices learn navigation, did they use sextants and tables + some maths, learn at sea, or, at school. No Decca, no GPS, one huge sea to cover and not all of it was good fishing. Any ideas.

John


----------



## Steve Farrow

Hi John,
They were taught by the skippers and crews of the smacks that they worked on. Generally it was magnetic compass, and a hand lead line which gave the depth of water and the nature of the sea bed by placing tallow in the base of the lead. This picked up any sand, shingle or other material that could roughly indicate their whereabouts.........to a very experienced skipper! They carried their own charts and guarded them closely as good fishing grounds would be marked on them. In later years, pressure was put upon the owners to give the lads some shore based education and this in Grimsby was the Fisher lads Institute in Orwell Street. When certificates for skippers and mates were introduced, they were in fact insurance tickets handed out by Insurance companies owned by the trawler owners!
Attached is a thumb nail of George Butler's certificate. He was washed overboard from the smack ALPHA on 7/11/1893 aged 34.
Hope this helps,
Steve


----------



## johnblack5

Steve Farrow said:


> Hi John,
> They were taught by the skippers and crews of the smacks that they worked on. Generally it was magnetic compass, and a hand lead line which gave the depth of water and the nature of the sea bed by placing tallow in the base of the lead. This picked up any sand, shingle or other material that could roughly indicate their whereabouts.........to a very experienced skipper! They carried their own charts and guarded them closely as good fishing grounds would be marked on them. In later years, pressure was put upon the owners to give the lads some shore based education and this in Grimsby was the Fisher lads Institute in Orwell Street. When certificates for skippers and mates were introduced, they were in fact insurance tickets handed out by Insurance companies owned by the trawler owners!
> Attached is a thumb nail of George Butler's certificate. He was washed overboard from the smack ALPHA on 7/11/1893 aged 34.
> Hope this helps,
> Steve



Many thanks Steve, Were records kept of who attended the Fisher Lads Institute ?, I now have the information which reveals that my Grandfather, John Smith was an apprentice in Grimsby completing his 4 year term in 1908.
I suppose that once on the fishing grounds the skipper kept a record of all movements in order to be able to plot a course for home after some weeks at sea then plotting for an offset from Grimsby such that when he saw land he knew which side of Grimsby he was. No doubt the smart skippers would also plot a course allowing for the effect of the currents, not so easy, many must have got lost and had a long journey home.
Thanks again for taking the trouble to let me know.

John


----------



## Steve Farrow

John,
If any records exist of those who attended the Institute I would think they would be kept in the archives by N E Lincs Coucil, at the Town Hall. The man to contact is John Wilson. Unfortunatly I don't have a contact number. 

Grimsby Library published a booklet in 1966 called "The Fishing Log of Edwin Green Smith, 1884-1888" It is the day to day account of wind direction fishing grounds and catches.

Steve


----------



## billblow

North East Lincolnshire Archives Tel 01472 323585 John Wilson Archivist
www.nelincs.gov.uk/leisure/archives Email [email protected]


----------



## johnblack5

Thanks Steve, I will try to obtain a copy and contact John Wilson re the lists of students.

Regards


John


----------



## johnblack5

Dave
362 Cleethorpes Rd has quite a story attached to it which is being unravelled

1918 Goldstone family living there 
1919 John and Kate Smith 
1921 " " 
1922 " " 
1923 " " John has a J next to his name which apparently means he was a Juror 
1924 John and Kate Smith as before 
1925 Isaac Goldstone and his family - Israel, Percy and Rachael. No sign of the Smiths 
1926 John and Kate are listed again at this address 
1927 the Goldstones again and no Smiths 
1929 Goldstone 
1930 Goldstone 

I will let you know when I have more details.


John


----------



## mkeeble

*Pete Crane*

Can any of you guys help me. I am trying to trace Peter Crane Skipper of the Ross Revenge, Ross Valiant etc in the late 1960's


----------



## davetodd

johnblack5 said:


> Dave
> 362 Cleethorpes Rd has quite a story attached to it which is being unravelled
> 
> 1918 Goldstone family living there
> 1919 John and Kate Smith
> 1921 " "
> 1922 " "
> 1923 " " John has a J next to his name which apparently means he was a Juror
> 1924 John and Kate Smith as before
> 1925 Isaac Goldstone and his family - Israel, Percy and Rachael. No sign of the Smiths
> 1926 John and Kate are listed again at this address
> 1927 the Goldstones again and no Smiths
> 1929 Goldstone
> 1930 Goldstone
> 
> I will let you know when I have more details.
> 
> 
> John


John
That seems to be correct.
Starting a little earlier and refering to the indenture for John Smith, the address looks like 114 Grafton St. to me.
The 1904 Elct.Roll for 114 has no electors registered
40 has no electors registered.
The 1905 Elct.Roll for 114 has George Owen Williams as a registered elector.
40 has no electors registered.
Obviously this may have no relevance to your search, but you never know.
The 1911 Elct.Roll for 483 Weelsby St. has Jihn Smith as a registered elector.
Owner of this property seems to be Charles Jame Emptage
who also owns 28 Harold St. Grimsby. This would imply to me that John Smith is the tenant.
1913 and 1914 Elct .Roll has no registered electors at 70 Cooper Rd.
1918 Elct.Roll for 362 Cleethorpe Rd. Grimsby has Israel Goldstone as a registered elector.
1919 Elct Roll for 362 Cleethorpe Rd. has John and Kate Smith as registered electors.
This continues until 1924 but in 1925 the registered electors are Isaac Goldstone (Juror) Israel Goldstone + Percy and Rachael.
Once again it appears to me that John Smith is a tenant here.
So this agrees with what you have said.
If a later address is found then further info. can be gained from Electoral rolls
to fill in the missing years.
The 1935 Electoral register has 7 John Smiths (without a second initial )
listed as living in Cleethorpes and 9 in Grimsby.
Keep looking John.
Best regards
Dave


----------



## davetodd

johnblack5 said:


> Sorry Dave, I thought that once you were given a GY number then that was it, it seems it is a number that can be moved to another boat.
> 
> I have skewed at 50 % so will give it a try.
> 
> I think that the 362/363 business is simply an error made at the time the certificates were written, not the first mistake I have come across.
> 
> 
> John


John 
I agree 363 should be discounted for now.
Regarding the thumbnail of the indenture.
It is clear that John Smith was apprenticed to the Company and not to an individual master/skipper.
The only ship mentioned is Nero but that does not mean she was the only ship John Smith sailed in.He may have sailed in any or all of that Company's fleet at some time.
He seems to have a satisfactory apprenticeship and to gain his mate's and then skipper's "Tickets" in quick time is well done.
Best Regards
Dave


----------



## davetodd

mattarosa said:


> And a very brief ref to the GADRA.
> 
> The Times, Thursday, Feb 17, 1921
> The Grimsby trawler Gadra was sunk in the Humber on Tuesday night after collision with another trawler, but no lives were lost.
> 
> Hilary


Hilary
Your post set me wondering about the sinking since the Gadra is entered in Letton and Colledge as an armed patrol vessel form 1939 to 1940 when she was returned to commercial use.
Reported lost on 6th January 1941.
After searching at the local library I found the attached .
This would suggest to me that the Gadra had been refloated and repaired to sreve again.
Some information (Adverts) on the attachments may trigger memories.
Best regards
Dave


----------



## mattarosa

Hi Dave
Despite the detailed explanation of the location, I would definitely need satnav!

Thanks for the very interesting information. It proves that you should always cross check your sources, or you may only have part of the story.

Hilary


----------



## johnblack5

davetodd said:


> John
> That seems to be correct.
> Starting a little earlier and refering to the indenture for John Smith, the address looks like 114 Grafton St. to me.
> The 1904 Elct.Roll for 114 has no electors registered
> 40 has no electors registered.
> The 1905 Elct.Roll for 114 has George Owen Williams as a registered elector.
> 40 has no electors registered.
> Obviously this may have no relevance to your search, but you never know.
> The 1911 Elct.Roll for 483 Weelsby St. has Jihn Smith as a registered elector.
> Owner of this property seems to be Charles Jame Emptage
> who also owns 28 Harold St. Grimsby. This would imply to me that John Smith is the tenant.
> 1913 and 1914 Elct .Roll has no registered electors at 70 Cooper Rd.
> 1918 Elct.Roll for 362 Cleethorpe Rd. Grimsby has Israel Goldstone as a registered elector.
> 1919 Elct Roll for 362 Cleethorpe Rd. has John and Kate Smith as registered electors.
> This continues until 1924 but in 1925 the registered electors are Isaac Goldstone (Juror) Israel Goldstone + Percy and Rachael.
> Once again it appears to me that John Smith is a tenant here.
> So this agrees with what you have said.
> If a later address is found then further info. can be gained from Electoral rolls
> to fill in the missing years.
> The 1935 Electoral register has 7 John Smiths (without a second initial )
> listed as living in Cleethorpes and 9 in Grimsby.
> Keep looking John.
> Best regards
> Dave


Hello Dave, Many thanks for all this good work. The address which is clear on my copy is 49 Grafton St. I found some additional details of the Goldstone link:

----- Original Message --- 
Fishermen Prisoners. 

The Grimsby Branch of the Royal National Mission to Deep Sea Fishermen, under the direction of Miss Newnham, has made the care of the fishermen prisoners its particular war work. From November, 1914, to November, 1918, some 33,909 food parcels were sent out to the fishermen prisoners, and 1,697 parcels of boots and clothing, without which the men would have fared badly in starving Germany.

In addition to this, war widows and wives were helped, some o1,049 17s. 6d. being spent in this relief work, a large proportion of the money coming from the South Adelaide Fund. To help wives and widows knitting work was also provided, Mrs. H. L. Taylor and Mrs. J. Smith helping greatly in the organisation of this work. It was started in December, 1914, and continued until the 14th of May last. The total garments knitted were: -- 7,255 pairs of sea boot stockings, 605 pairs of socks, 33 Jerseys and 36 pairs of Meltor twine gloves, for which o948 5s. 11d. was paid in wages. 

Grandmother Kate busy knitting.

From Google it shows that Israel Goldstone was absent for the 1919 census, he was then: Israel Goldstone of 362 Cleethorpes Road 202164 PTE 1/5 West Yorks Infantry.

I also learnt more about this period og Grimsbys history. I will now order some more marriage certificates for his daughters in order to establish which of the Smiths in 1935 is the one we are looking for.

Again, many thanks

John


----------



## davetodd

mattarosa said:


> Hi Dave
> Despite the detailed explanation of the location, I would definitely need satnav!
> 
> Thanks for the very interesting information. It proves that you should always cross check your sources, or you may only have part of the story.
> 
> Hilary


The attached may help with navigation to the GADRA. I don't have SATNAV either.
Dave


----------



## mattarosa

Dave
Thanks for sharing this interesting map. Hope you enjoy the rest of the weekend.
Hilary


----------



## johnblack5

Steve Farrow said:


> John,
> If any records exist of those who attended the Institute I would think they would be kept in the archives by N E Lincs Coucil, at the Town Hall. The man to contact is John Wilson. Unfortunatly I don't have a contact number.
> 
> Grimsby Library published a booklet in 1966 called "The Fishing Log of Edwin Green Smith, 1884-1888" It is the day to day account of wind direction fishing grounds and catches.
> 
> Steve


Booklet no longer available Steve.

John


----------



## Steve Farrow

I will see if any second hand copies crop up in the near future!

For those people interested, there is a thread about G. F. Sleight's trawlers in the Ship Research section.

Steve


----------



## johnblack5

Hi Steve and Dave
Just to let you know we are heading for the Mountains In Brecon for a couple of weeks. However, I must thank everyone on the Nostalgia web-site for being so friendy and helping me to solve the movements of Skipper John Smith.
Best wishes

John

I will be back !!!!


----------



## treeve

I have just received some interesting information (though very little). Robert George Reeves of Grimsby (who apparently came from Brixham with other members of the family around 1860), owned a smack GY 414 named BURTON (though I suspect it was BARTON ON.67704 of 1873), the sister vessel was named STATHER. Is there any chance anyone can offer any advice please, or information. Best Wishes, Raymond


----------



## billblow

Raymond
I think you will find it is Burton.
Burton Stather is a village in Nth Lincs between S****horpe and the Humber.
Don't know anything about the vessel Stather
Bill


----------



## gil mayes

GY414 BURTON (67704) 1st Class Smack was registered at Grimsby 12.9.1892. The early Returns do not always show closing of register but she is not recorded in 1899.
Gil.


----------



## Steve Farrow

From Cox's, "Sailing Trawlers and Liners of Grimsby".......
BURTON registered on 3/1873. Built by J. Wray of Burton Stather.. Dandy trawl. 68.87 reg tons, 72' length,x 19.2' x 10.05'. 3men & 2 boys.
R. G. Reeves (Owner) 1/1882 J. Plastow (Owner). ( W. Clerke, J. L. Johnson, & Gempton, skippers.) 4/1897 H.Greer (Owner) Off No 67704
Sold to Norway 4/1897. 

Steve


----------



## treeve

Thanks very much, Bill, Gil and Steve; I had the Barton and ON given by another relative of RG Reeves, who had clearly been given the wrong information; That is brilliant. Best Wishes, Raymond


----------



## davetodd

mattarosa said:


> Hi Dave
> Despite the detailed explanation of the location, I would definitely need satnav!
> 
> Thanks for the very interesting information. It proves that you should always cross check your sources, or you may only have part of the story.
> 
> Hilary


Hilary
Gadra lives to fight another day.
The attached from Grimsby Evening Telegraph 15th March 1921
Best regards
Dave


----------



## treeve

Now, here's a question ... How can I get a copy of 
Charles Bernard Cox - "Sailing Trawlers and Liners of Grimsby";
Amazon is out of stock; I suspect anyone that has a copy will hang on to it
unless attacked by Ninja warriors. And even then a struggle would ensue.
Google does not come up trumps at all. All best, Raymond


----------



## Steve Farrow

Raymond,
It was printed locally by Grimsby Copy Centre 251, Cleethorpe Road, Grimsby in 1990, but I having just telephoned them, no cpies are available.
Regards
Steve


----------



## treeve

Thanks Steve, I suspected as much ... rather rare. I have just received a very kind offer, which I have accepted gratefully. Best Wishes, Raymond


----------



## hallifax

has anyone got a colour photo of northern reward please


----------



## Kerbtrawler

Sorry Stephen 
I've only got black and white, but I will keep looking


----------



## treeve

Don't forget Steve's painting of Northern Gift, sister ship to Northern Reward on trawlerart.


----------



## Kerbtrawler

Well remembered that man...

cheers


----------



## johnblack5

Hi Dave

While on holiday I bought a copy of "A Life on the Humber, Keeling to Shipbuilding by Harry Fletcher" an interesting book now free to anyone who wants it, just pay the postage.

Byee

John


----------



## Steve Farrow

*Northern Reward*



hallifax said:


> has anyone got a colour photo of northern reward please


I have emailed two pics of the Northen Reward to Trevor.

Regards

Steve


----------



## johnblack5

Hi Dave
Just a thought. On the marriage certificate for Christine Smith in 1938 the address for both parties is shown as being 90 Grimsby Road, can you check this one. In the past the bride married from the parents address, why her husband is included I do not know, rather racy for the time. The groom was Benjamin Thompson Nicholson.

Regards


John


----------



## Kerbtrawler

Hi Steve,

Thanks to your Help we able to have the full vessel put onto my Father Birthday Cake celebrating his 80th 

The Northern reward looked good enough to eat - bad pun i know but couldn't help it,

Once again thanks


----------



## treeve

I have just been notified by Malcolm Cameron that Staunton GY 350 (including picture) is included in the book Maritime, by the late John Jeffries; 
ISBN No. 9780955 663406 
http://www.jjmaritime.co.uk/ 
Best Wishes, Raymond


----------



## Steve Farrow

*Staunton*

Raymond,
The picture of the STAUNTON you refer to is a painting I did of her using a sister ship because no photo of her has been published to the best of my knowledge.

Regards

Steve


----------



## mattarosa

Steve Farrow said:


> Raymond,
> The picture of the STAUNTON you refer to is a painting I did of her using a sister ship because no photo of her has been published to the best of my knowledge.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Steve


My heart nearly stopped when I saw the words photo and Staunton together. Steve has some idea how long I have been looking for a picture of her.

Why is your picture of Staunton in this particular book, Steve (or Raymond) - did the author serve on Staunton?

And I am sure I must have asked you this before, Steve, but what ship is your painting of Staunton based on? I understood (not sure where or who from) that Staunton did not have any sister ships, but that seems to be wrong information.

Hilary


----------



## Steve Farrow

Hilary,
I must admit I felt the same way! When I saw it was a painting of mine, I remembered that the author of the book contacted me a few years ago asking if he could use the image. 
Staunton's sister ships were SHERATON, SICYON, PRETORIA and the BRITISH EMPIRE, all built by CW&G.
Hope this helps,
Regards
Steve


----------



## treeve

I received the email today, and in view of the interest in Staunton, I thought it as well to pass this on ... I am glad it is your excellent painting Steve. John Jeffries has passed on apparently, and left a great deal of information, pictures and stories for all to enjoy. Best Wishes, Raymond


----------



## di1604

*Velinda GY29*

Hi does anyone have any information/Pics on the Velinda GY29, please


----------



## johnblack5

Hello Dave
As you did not reply to my last request for help I am wondering if you are fit and well, Please let me know, without you I make little progress.

Regards


John


----------



## davetodd

*Velinda*



di1604 said:


> Hi does anyone have any information/Pics on the Velinda GY29, please


Grimsby Reference Library have four photographs of Velinda GY29.
She was built in 1956 at Beverley as an oil-fired steam trawler.
Official Number 184948 779 Gross Tons 296 Nett.
Owners were Atlas Steam Fishing Company Limited.
This vessel is quite a leap from your earlier query regarding Apprentices of the 1800's!
What is the connection?
Regards
Dave


----------



## di1604

davetodd said:


> Grimsby Reference Library have four photographs of Velinda GY29.
> She was built in 1956 at Beverley as an oil-fired steam trawler.
> Official Number 184948 779 Gross Tons 296 Nett.
> Owners were Atlas Steam Fishing Company Limited.
> This vessel is quite a leap from your earlier query regarding Apprentices of the 1800's!
> What is the connection?
> Regards
> Dave



Hi Dave, no connection, someone I know was named after it, and asked me if I could find out anything about it for them.


----------



## Kerbtrawler

di1604 said:


> Hi does anyone have any information/Pics on the Velinda GY29, please


I can send you a picture of the velinda along side in Grimsby Docks if you want

let me know

cheers


----------



## di1604

Hi that would be great thanks, do you know what happened to her?


----------



## davetodd

di1604 said:


> Hi that would be great thanks, do you know what happened to her?


Sorry di, should have added to my info. for you.
Velinda GY29 Broken up in 1976.
Dave


----------



## Kerbtrawler

I will send it tonight please send me your email by PM 

cheers


----------



## di1604

Received picture ,she is really pleased. Thank you from me and her


----------



## Roger Griffiths

A little off topic.
Hello all,
Has anyone any idea on how the requistioned Aberdeen trawler MIRABELLE ex EDWARD BARKER was lost.
She was based at GY and was being used as an Esso when she was sunk in collision 17/9/1944.
I have read she collided with a boom but cannot substantiate this.
Any idea's?
thanks and regards 
Roger


----------



## treeve

Generally reported as being rammed by accident.
http://www.aberdeenships.com/single.asp?searchFor=abel&index=101389
http://web.ukonline.co.uk/rayricho/1921.htm
Best Wishes, Raymond


----------



## Roger Griffiths

Hello Raymond,
I have seen those links. I know she was in collision/rammed. I am trying to find out by whom/what.

best regards
Roger


----------



## gil mayes

Roger

Probably old hat. MIRABELLE was requisitioned 25.11.1939 and designated as a M/S until 1.2.1940, from 22.4.1940 to 7.3.1942 she operated as a Patrol vessel and from 1.4.1944 she was on miscellaneous Naval duties. As an Esso/smoke making trawler she was at Normandy as part of Group B sailing Rosyth 10.6.1944, Solent 11.6.1944 as part of Convoy ETC6 arriving Mulberry B 12.6.1944. Her record just ends "sunk 17.9.1944" but given time it is possible that more info is contained in ADM199.
Gil.


----------



## Roger Griffiths

Morning Gil,
Thanks for that. I suspect the answer is in ADM199. Will look at the war diaries next time I am there.


regards
Roger


----------



## Roger Griffiths

*EMERALD and DIAMOND*

Hello,
Has anyone got any career details of these two trawlers who apparently were fishing out of Grimsby in 1944. EMERALD T C & F Moss 104172 and DIAMOND T C & F Moss 104168

regards
Roger


----------



## aavh

According to Cox & Toghill


Emerald 104172 built 1894 Cochranes Beverley 150g 63n 101ft x 20.5ft x 11ft 45hp
06.1894 Registered at Grimsby GY 613 to T C Moss, 29.05.1917:Requisitioned as Fishery Resrve Vessel. 1919: Returned to Owners. 3.1921: Owned by T C & F Moss, 10.1943: owned by Great Grimsby & East Coast Steam Fishing Co Ltd. 26.01.1944: Missing.

Diamond 104168 built Cochranes Beverley 150g 63n 101ft x 20.5 x 11ft 45hp.
05.1894: Registered at Grimsby GY 603 to T C & F Moss 29.05.1917: Requisitioned as Fishery Reserve Vessel. 1919: Returned to Owners. 
01.1946: Owned by Jubilee Fishing Co Ltd London, 06.1952: Scrapped.


----------



## Roger Griffiths

Hello Andy,
Thanks for the input. 
The reason I asked is that I have seen it claimed on another forum that both these vessels sailing together with IRANIAN GY728 were torpedoed early in 1944.
An eye witness report apparently.
Think I'll go to Specsavers.

rgards
Roger


----------



## Steve Farrow

I was given a handwritten do***ent containing the instructions for the building of a new sailing smack. I have typed it out for clarity for those who maybe interested in this type of vessel......

The Specification for a new Sailing Smack, to be built by John Bell at his shipbuilding yard, Union Dock, Great Grimsby.


Length of hull 70 feet. Breadth of beam 20 feet, Depth of hold, 10' x 6" inches. Hull to be of American Elm, sided 8" x 12"
Stem and stern post to be of oak, sided 8" Deadwood to be bolted with 1" iron bolts.
(Floors and timbers) to be of oak & sided 6 to 7 inches.
(Keelson) To be of oak & sided 8"x 10" and to be bolted with 1" iron bolts.
(Outside planking) To be of American Elm of Oak 2 ½ " thick up to height mark. From shoulder to topsides to be of oak 32" thick, bolted through.
(Carling) To be of oak 1 ½ " thick and fastened with spikes and two bilge planks on each side to be 2 ½ " thick, fastened with 5/8 " metal bolts in every alternate timber.
(Stanchions) To be of oak, sided 5 ½ " x 4 ½ " 
(Clamps) To be of oak, sided 2 ½ " thick
(Shelves) To be of oak, 5" thick, bolted with 11/16 " iron bolts in the usual way.
(Pawl Bitts) To be of oak 8" square and to same.
(Fastenings) To be fastened with oak treenails and all necessary bolts to be of metal up to the ballast mark.
(Beams) To be of oak and about 22 in number, sided and moulded 6 ½ " x 7" and fastened with 2, ¾ " bolts in each end.
(Knees) To have twelve in each side, fastened with 5/8" iron bolts as usual. Also from iron shaped on each side down to bilge, fastened with 13/16" iron bolts.
(Covering Board) To be of oak 2 ½" thick, fastened with iron bolts.
Windlass & Dandy winch bitts to be of oak, sided 4" x 12" 
Fore winch bitts to be of oak sided 5" x 12" with oak knees fastened with 11/16" iron bolts.
Skylight hatchways, bollard and all deck framing, to be secured and bolted in the usual way.
(Decks) To be of good redwood & fastened with enough spikes.
Horse, mainsheet block, bowsprit bitts & belly bollard to be of oak, rolled & fashioned with iron bolts as usual.
Rails and warping chocks to be of oak or elm fastened with nails or bolts.
(Bulwarks) To be of oak 1" thick round the bows and the remainder to be of 1" plane deal, fashioned with iron bars.
(Caulking) To be caulked with good oakum and pitch.
(Chainplates) To be bolted, with ¾ " iron bolts.
(Cabin-Fishroom) These to be of deal & fitted up as customary as in port.
(Pumps) To find one & one slush pump and all necessary ironwork used in the construction of the hull of a trawling smack & complete the same up to a workmanlike manner.
Also, to find one new boat.


…………………………………

The price of the said smack to be nine hundred and fifty pounds.

SIGNED……JOHN GUZZWELL, 

This day Twenty sixth day of September One Thousand Eight Hundred & Eighty-Five (26/09/1885)

..................................

Steve


----------



## RayL

Thanks for the fascinating reading on this thread. In the summer of 1968 I did a trip out of Grimsby in the 'Ross Kashmir', and the purpose was just to try and keep my 'ticket' valid so I would, if necessary, be able to return to the M.N. as a R/O (for the last 12 months I had been working for B.R. in Nottingham).

Almost immediately I was struck down with seasickness - the reason being the different motion on such a small vessel. It took me two days to adjust, and even so I had a repeat later in the 16-day voyage. At least it excused me from having to do my share of the 'cod liver oil' work!

We broke down off Iceland and had to use rockets to deliver ropes to a trawler that came to our rescue. It towed us to the Faeroe Islands - a nice bonus to visit a remote place like that. A special bolt was flown to us there and the engine was restored.

Somebody raided my cabin as we docked at Grimsby (I was on the bridge) and I lost a couple of personal items.

The final irony - I had done it all for nothing because I later discovered that you had to go to sea for a minimum of a month to keep your ticket alive!


----------



## mattarosa

Steve Farrow said:


> I was given a handwritten do***ent containing the instructions for the building of a new sailing smack. I have typed it out for clarity for those who maybe interested in this type of vessel......
> 
> Very interesting, Steve. I've just had some furniture delivered made of oak, but it was made in Vietnam, I don't think we have much oak left here.
> 
> Obviously your "recipe" also requires craftsmen to put it all together, not sure we have many of them either.
> 
> Hilary


----------



## mattarosa

RayL said:


> In the summer of 1968 I did a trip out of Grimsby in the 'Ross Kashmir'
> 
> Hi Ray
> Thanks for sharing this story with us. The only thing I know about the Ross Kashmir is that in 1965 (I think) it was lengthened and converted to diesel, along with several other Ross trawlers, but I expect others on this site know more.
> 
> What a shame you were sick, and that the trip was pointless in terms of your original goal, but it was still an experience that most people never have, and you have obviously vividly remembered it.
> 
> Hilary


----------



## Steve Farrow

Hi Hilary,
Craftsmen they certainly were! I'm not a shipwright but having watched many of these people set to work with thier many varied tools, I have a great appreciation for them. The sharp edges of thier adze's and chizels would turn blue within minutes as they shaped those hardwoods!
Those skills are still out there but in fewer numbers.

Steve


----------



## gil mayes

As a shipwright, nice to be appreciated.
Gil.


----------



## kazB

Hi all, just joined the forum today, I had googled the name of the ship my grandad was lost with and this forum came up.
I've read the previous posts on The Sheldon which I found very interesting, I have been to the local library and printed off copies of the reports in the local paper.

What I'd really like to do now is find out more about grandads life, other ships he sailed on, he was in the Navy, can I find out more about his naval career?

Also my family have connections with the Lifeboat station at Cromer (according to family rumour) so any pointers would be much appreciated.

I still live in Grimsby so any help I can give other members, I'd be more than happy.

Thanks Karen.


----------



## johnblack5

Hi Karen
We are on the same quest, find out about my grandfather. A lady who has been really helpful is Jennie in the Grimsby Library, you should have a chat with her. I found out the my Grandfather, John Smith has been a Grimsby Fishing Apprentice, I managed via Kew to obtain a copy of his ticket. His first wife died after only 6 years and through this site I have managed to obtain a photograph of this lady, my Grandmother. I finally got to him living in Cleethorpes with a new wife and 4 daughters, there my trail has ended.
Good luck with your search, this is a super site.

John


----------



## kazB

Hi John

Thanks for replying!

It may have been Jennie who helped me find all the newspaper reports from The Sheldon - very helpful lady. I'll have to go back and see her though to see what else I can find out!

Have just started looking into my grandfather's apprentiship but I don't know much about him yet and I don't think he's a Grimsby lad.
Did you find that out at the library?

As for your grandfather's new family have you tried genesreunited it's good for finding more recent ancestors!

Karen


----------



## Steve Farrow

Hi Karen,

What was the name of your grandfather?

If you go to the Gallery and type SHELDON, an image of one of my paintings will show......Here is what I wrote in the Bygones.



As the violent storm of late January and early February in 1953 swept across the United Kingdom and beyond, reeking havoc and destruction along its path, ships out at sea struggled to survive the hurricane force winds and mountainous seas.
One such vessel was the 41 year old Grimsby trawler SHELDON and her 14-man crew.
She had sailed from Grimsby on 26th January and after calling at Kirkwall, left that port on the 30th, the night before the fierce storms, heading for the Faroe fishing grounds.
For twelve days nothing was heard of her and an appeal was made through the BBC to try and make contact.
A spokesman for her owners, Sir Thomas Robinson & Son Ltd. Said, “ Sheldon may have her wireless out of action and may be somewhere off the west coast of Scotland.”
All ships were told to keep a look-out for her and the fisheries protection vessel, COQUETTE began to make a search of the area where they thought she might be. There was south-easterly gale with heavy seas and snow at the time with 31 trawlers sheltering in Cromarty Firth.
Fears that she had been lost gradually hit home and it was assumed that she had been swamped by huge seas. It was particularly tragic in that the skipper, Tom Beesley, had his 24 year old son Roland on board as mate. Two other crew had travelled out to join her, replacing two sick crew.
The owners said that of the 23 of their ships that had been out at sea during the gales, only the SHELDON failed to make it back, but about 10 of them had suffered damage. 
The Grimsby trawler BURFELL had spoken to the SHELDON at 1pm on the 30th January, but since then nothing more had been heard.
On the 14th February, the Grimsby Evening Telegraph reported that several flights from Scottish Command had been made over an area to the north of the Orkneys. The trawler CUNNINGHAM had been steaming about three hours behind the SHELDON but heard and saw nothing more of her. No wreckage had been found at that stage and the air and sea search was continuing. Then on the following day, the 18th February, the owners officially abandoned all hope for the ship. At the outset Mr Frank Robinson had personally visited the relatives of the crew to keep them all informed about the situation.
On the sad day that hope was abandoned, the port missioner Mt Albert Broughton took the sad news to the families.
Just one week later a lifebuoy from the SHELDON was picked up in the Shetlands at Hamna Voe.
Of the crew, 10 were married men. Skipper Beesley (57) lived in Garnett St Cleethorpes. He had been skipper of the ship for five years.
His son Roland lived in Humberstone Rd Grimsby.
The chief engineer H. V. Wass (51) Frankland Place, Cleethorpes,
Second engineer Mr B. Cullen (43) Wades Avenue, Grimsby. 
Third hand Mr H. Hess, (38) Grimsby Rd Cleethorpes.
Deckhands, Mr S. B. Blastland (30) Pelham St, Grimsby.
J.W. Swinscoe, (29) Park St Grimsby.
Mr. G. H. Young (54) , Fraser St Grimsby.
Deckhand-Trimmers, Mr. T. Bell, (42) Fuller St Cleethorpes
Mr. T. S. Carlton, Bedford St Grimsby.
Firemen, Mr. K. Burrett,(36), Eleanor St Grimsby.
Mr. J. Haywood (28) Elliston St Cleethorpes.
Cook, Mr. S. King, (30) Edward St Grimsby.
When the SHELDON put into Kirkwall, the cook, Mr. K. Hotson of Springfield Rd , Leicester and deckhand, Mr. A. Algar of Lovett St Cleethorpes left the vessel due to illness.

The SHELDON was built by Cook, Welton and Gemmell in Beverley and launched in 1912. Her owners were the Standard Steam Fg Co. Ltd. In 1915 she was requisitioned by the Admiralty and converted into a mine-sweeper.
She was returned in 1919.
Bought by Sir Thomas Robinson & Sons Ltd. In January 1940.
1940 saw her in the admiralty once again as an auxiliary patrol vessel, then in March 1942, converted into a mine-sweeper again. Returned to fishing in 1945.
288 gross tons
144 net ton89hp engines
Armed with WW1 6pdr
Bomb thrower
2 x machine guns
Admiralty No 1407Pennant No 4.143 (APV)

Steve


----------



## kazB

Thanks for that Steve, it's hard to imagine how the families must have felt!

My grandad was Bernard Cullen, my dad Jack being his elsest son, he was 20 at the time of his dad's death with 5 younger siblings.

Your account is very good, I do have the Bygones with it in.

Thanks again, Karen.


----------



## davetodd

johnblack5 said:


> Hello Dave
> As you did not reply to my last request for help I am wondering if you are fit and well, Please let me know, without you I make little progress.
> 
> Regards
> 
> 
> John


Hello John,
Sorry for the delay.
Had a look for some more info. for you today.
This what I found.
1935-6 Grimsby Cleethorpes Directory 
90 Grimsby Rd. Cleethorpes Occupant J.Smith
92 " " " T.Smith

1938 Electoral Roll
90 Grimsby Rd. Cleethorpes John Smith & Kate Smith
92 " " Tom Smith & Annie Maria Smith
+ Fred Harness & Annie Harness

1939 Electoral Roll
90 Grimsby Rd. Cleethorpes John Smith & Kate Smith
92 " " Francis Hanneman & Ethel Hanneman

No Electoral rolls during WW2

1945-46 Electoral Roll
90 Grimsby Rd. Cleethorpes Millicent Beaumont & Walter J. Beaumont
92 " " Douglas Buttle & Joyce Wison.

Best Regards
Dave


----------



## mattarosa

*Gy73*

Hello all

I have recently seen these two pictures on the Internet, both of GY73.

Can anyone help me identify them please?

Hilary


----------



## johnblack5

Hello

If anyone reading this is passing by 90 Grimsby Road then please take a photo for me. Last known home of my Grandfather in 1939. If you know where me moved after that then you have solved a mystery.

Thanks


John


----------



## Roger Griffiths

mattarosa said:


> Hello all
> 
> I have recently seen these two pictures on the Internet, both of GY73.
> 
> Can anyone help me identify them please?
> 
> Hilary


Hilary,
I suggest the colour pic is the CWG built WAR STAR 136005.

regards
Roger


----------



## Steve Farrow

mattarosa said:


> Hello all
> 
> I have recently seen these two pictures on the Internet, both of GY73.
> 
> Can anyone help me identify them please?
> 
> Hilary


Hi Hilary,

The first picture is the anchor seiner JOHANNE S, built at Fredrikshaven in 1938. In 1957 she was owned by Anglo Danish Trout Co Ltd. Grimsby. 
I can just remember her sailing out of GY.

Regards

Steve


----------



## davetodd

Hilary,
GY73.
Johanne S
Confirm Steve's comments and add that Johanne S was listed in the 1960 Olsen's almanac and still listed as GY73 in 1965.
Owners in 1960 given as Anglo Danish trout Co.
Grimsby Library have five photographs of Johanne S as GY73

Warstar
Agree with Roger's comments re Warstar.
Served as Minesweeper in WW1 Adm.No.1633 from August 1915 to 1919.
!934 appears in 1934 Olsen's with owners Earl S.F.Co.Ltd. Grimsby
Served in WW2 as FY292 from 1940 to February 1946.
In 1947 appears in Olsen's as A130 owners Wm.&J.Wood Aberdeen
In 1960 Olsen's appears as A130 owners Wm.Wood & others.
But I have her as broken up in 1959.
Grimsby Library have one photograph of Warstar as A130
However, this ifnormation re. Warstar does not confirm that the coloured image is this vessel, but it could be.
It would seem that she was registered at Aberdeen after WW2.
Perhaps that would help date the painting.
Best Regards
Dave


----------



## Roger Griffiths

Hello Dave,
WARSTAR was on the GY register from 14/5/1914 until being sold to Irish interests on 16/9/1938. She made a brief return on 22/5/1940 as GY294 before being sold to the Admiralty on 23/9/1940.
As far as I know there were 3 previous vessels which carried the port number GY73
JUNO 1859-?
CONFIDENCE o/n 56969 1869? -3/11/1894
ABYDOS o/n 118949 5/7/1905-20/3/1907
The vessel in the pic looks like she carried a radio so my money would be on WARSTAR circa 1920/30.

regards
Roger


----------



## davetodd

Roger Griffiths said:


> Hello Dave,
> WARSTAR was on the GY register from 14/5/1914 until being sold to Irish interests on 16/9/1938. She made a brief return on 22/5/1940 as GY294 before being sold to the Admiralty on 23/9/1940.
> As far as I know there were 3 previous vessels which carried the port number GY73
> JUNO 1859-?
> CONFIDENCE o/n 56969 1869? -3/11/1894
> ABYDOS o/n 118949 5/7/1905-20/3/1907
> The vessel in the pic looks like she carried a radio so my money would be on WARSTAR circa 1920/30.
> 
> regards
> Roger


Roger,
I agree.
The Abydos ON 118949 was owned by Roberts and Ruthven but since she was lost in 1907 I have discounted her.
Warstar is the favourite.
Dave


----------



## mattarosa

Thanks Roger, Steve and Dave, for the information. Very helpful, as always.

Hilary


----------



## gil mayes

Hilary
Better late than never.
WARSTAR (GY73) (1914-1915 & 1922-1928)
O.N. 136005. 225g 112n 117.0 x 22.0 x 12.1 feet
T.3-cyl by Amos & Smith Ltd, Hull

12.2.1914: Launched by Cook, Welton & Gemmell Ltd, Beverley (Yd.No.289) for Pelham Steam Fishing Co Ltd, Grimsby (Alex Black, manager) as Warstar. 14.5.1914: Registered at Grimsby (GY73). 5.1914: Completed. Fishing from Fleetwood. 8.1914: Requisitioned for war service and converted for minesweeping duties (Ad.No.1633). 2.11.1915: Sold to Harold Croft Baker, Cleethorpes. 7.10.1918: Sold to Harry Woods & Others, Grimsby. 10.10.1918: Re-registered at Grimsby (GY73). 1919: Returned. 26.1.1920: Sold to Smithfield Trawlers Ltd, London (W. Goldstein, manager). Fishing from Fleetwood. 12.1920: Sold to Lewis Trawling Co, Grimsby. 8.1922: Sold to Earl Steam Fishing Co Ltd, Grimsby (Sir Alec Black, Bart, manager). Transferred to Fleetwood. 1928: Transferred to Grimsby. 16.9.1938: Sold to Mathew J. McCabe & W. M. M. Curtis, Dublin (A. Williams, manager). 17.9.1938: Grimsby registry closed. 9.1938: Registered at Dublin (D121). 1939: Sold to W. M. M. Curtis, Dublin. 5.1940: Sold to Earl Steam Fishing Co Ltd, Grimsby (Sir Alec Black, Bt, manager). 5.1940: Dublin registry closed. 22.5.1940: Registered at Grimsby (GY294). 5.1940: Requisitioned for war service and converted for auxiliary patrol duties 1940: Sold to The Admiralty. 23.9.1940: Grimsby registry closed. 6.1942: Converted for minesweeping duties (P.No.FY.292). 5.1944: Converted to a fuel carrier (“Esso”). 10.1944: At Milford, port duties. 9.1945: Towing at Milford, “To return to fishing”. 10.1945: Paid off C&M at Plymouth. 5.1946: Sold to William Wood, Aberdeen. 5.1946: Registered at Aberdeen (A130). 10.1959: Sold to BISCO (£2050) and allocated to Shipbreaking Industries Ltd for demolition at Charlestown, Fife (Contract No.72E). 2.11.1959: Arrived Charlestown from Aberdeen towing Gunton (A12). 7.11.1959: Delivered. 21.3.1960: Demolition commenced. 
Gil.


----------



## mattarosa

Many thanks, Gil. Warstar had a very interesting and varied career!

Hilary


----------



## jimbrechin

mkeeble said:


> Can any of you guys help me. I am trying to trace Peter Crane Skipper of the Ross Revenge, Ross Valiant etc in the late 1960's


I last saw Pete in Nigeria in 1981, how time flies. The next I heard of him was as Skipper of the Putford Athena.
Unfortunately Pete passed away a few years ago.

Jim


----------



## TSJ59

*S.T. Queenborough GY 658*

Hi All

The fate of Grimsby’s Steam Trawler _Queenborough_ GY 658 is shown by Clydebuilt Ships Database and other sources as:_ “Went Missing After - 30/05/1917”_ but CWGC lists nine casualties remembered on Tower Hill Memorial with the date of death 21/03/1917. Just wondering if anyone knows of any subsequent details of her loss that may have emerged to convince CWGC the loss was war related and on that date?

Cheers, Terry


----------



## Brushy

Clem, I served my apprenticeship with Northern Trawlers from 1945 to 51. I have some pics of the northern boats and some stories too. My step fater was a trawler skipper for many many years. My uncle was Dod Osbourne of the "Girl Pat ' fame.
Cheers and all the luck in your research.
Bob Broome


----------



## Roger Griffiths

*S/t Queenborough Gy658*



TSJ59 said:


> Hi All
> 
> The fate of Grimsby’s Steam Trawler _Queenborough_ GY 658 is shown by Clydebuilt Ships Database and other sources as:_ “Went Missing After - 30/05/1917”_ but CWGC lists nine casualties remembered on Tower Hill Memorial with the date of death 21/03/1917. Just wondering if anyone knows of any subsequent details of her loss that may have emerged to convince CWGC the loss was war related and on that date?
> 
> Cheers, Terry



Hello Terry,
A strange one this.
Some of the citations at Tower Hill say QUEENBOROUGH was sunk by an enemy submarine eg.
*COLLETT, Trimmer, CHARLES, Steam Trawler "Queenborough" (Grimsby). Mercantile Marine. Drowned, as a result of an attack by an enemy submarine, 21st March 1917. Age 42. Husband of Mrs. Collett, of 47, Rut-land St., Grimsby. Born in London. *
The question is, if so, which one?
There is nothing in Lloyds losses or more to the point on uboat.net.
She was not requsitioned and her B of T logbook for 1917 is still intact.
I don't know where the Clydeside site got their info but the returns of GY fishing boats confirms this. (attached) I can only assume that Lloyds arbitration committee made a retrospective judgement but I cannot confirm this.
I note you have posted on the Great War forum. Try a post on the WW1 forum at uboat.net or could any one here enlighten us.


Roger


----------



## TSJ59

*S.T. Queenborough GY 658*

Hello Roger,

It is strange I agree. I would have thought the B.of T. date would be the last know sighting / contact but if the CWGC date is correct the loss was over two months earlier and I'd have thought _Queenborough_ would have been posted missing much earlier!

As you probably know there are some resident U-Boat experts on the GWF but they have been quiet on this so far. So one to add to the more to do list!

Thanks for your input.

Cheers, Terry


----------



## billblow

*S.t. Queensborough Gy 658*

Under the heading of Queensborough GY 658 in Cox's " The Steam Trawlers and Liners of Grimsby" it says "missing since 30/05/1917, this vessel does not appear in Loss List, Admiralty Loss List or in the List of Vessels Requisitioned "
Billblow


----------



## Roger Griffiths

Hello Terry/Bill,
I have had discussions on this issue via e-mail. Michael Lowrey's reply seems to sum up the general concensus.
_The CWGC was fairly liberal on including the crews of missing ships -- it seems that as long as there is a presumption of the loss being war related, the crew was included. That Spindler does not include a matching incident is not a problem to the CWGC -- have seen that in other cases where we've recently been able to establish a loss was in fact U-boat related and the crew of the missing vessel was already included in the CWGC database. 

My best guess is the loss is circa March 21, 1917 with a postwar belief (which may or may not be accurate) that the trawler was lost through enemy action._

For my part wether or not the vessel was sunk by enemy action or not the fact is they where out there in hostile waters doing thier bit for Country if not King so as far as I am concerned they are intitled to be on the Tower Hil Memorial.

regards
Roger


----------



## TSJ59

*S.T. Queenborough GY 658*

Thanks Bill/Rodger,

I had seen Cox's _"The Steam Trawlers and Liners of Grimsby"_ and briefly thought _Queensborough_ and _Queenborough_ might be different vessels. I have seen Michael's reply on the GWF and have to agree - perhaps something might turn up after this airing.

Good to see the crew are commemorated by the CWGC.

Cheers, Terry


----------



## davetodd

*Queenborough*

Terry,
today i had a look through back copies of the Grimsby Daily Telegraph for info. re Queenborough.
No luck i'm afraid, but did find the attached for March 1917.
Also looked through the April editions but no luck there either.
I know that the attached does not mention names of vessels but it may be of some interest to members researching that period.
Didn't find any mention of Queenborough in the press cuttings either.
Best Regards
Dave


----------



## TSJ59

*S.T. Queenborough GY 658*

Hello David

Apologies for the slow response - life’s a bit hectic at present. Thanks for your interesting post that eliminates the need to search those papers/dates. 
You might be interested in these details to the clipping you posted: (three PoW skippers):

McGovern Patrick, Skipper (b. 1875) of 242 Wellington Street, Grimsby. 13 Feb. 1917 Vessel _King Alfred GY 217_ Sunk 75 miles S. 16 E. of Fair Isle by UC 44 (Kapitänleutnant Kurt Tebbenjohanns)

Rowson Henry, Skipper (b. 1863) of 132 Grimsby Road, Cleethorpes. 
14 Feb. 1917 Vessel _Belvoir Castle GY 2_ Sunk 25 miles S. E. of Buchan Ness by UC 44 (Kapitänleutnant Kurt Tebbenjohanns)

Broomhead G.H. Skipper (b. 1862) of 8 Arlington Street, Grimsby. 
11 Feb. 1917 Vessel _Ashwold GY 697_ Sunk 130 miles NE by N. of Shields, by UC 44 (Kapitänleutnant Kurt Tebbenjohanns)

All three skippers were taken prisoner and spent the rest of the war in PoW Camp Brandenburg. I cannot find any reports of casualties(deaths) or PoWs associated with the crews of the three vessels but on 4 Aug 1917 the crew of UC 44 were not so fortunate, UC 44 sank on one of her own mines that prematurely deployed 5207N 0659W, 28 dead and 1 survivor. Kapitänleutnant Kurt Tebbenjohanns PoW 5.8.1917.

Cheers, Terry


----------



## Yorvick

Can anyone help with a rough estimate as to what a Smack would cost in 1881 - and also any ideas on whether an 11 year old boy would be apprenticed to a ship owner in 1861 in Grimsby. His occupation is listed as school boy but he is with a Master and his wife not his parents on the vessel "Thomas"


----------



## K urgess

If you look here
http://www.shipsnostalgia.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=37146
You'll see my GGFs indenture papers to the fishing in 1862. He was born in 1849 as far as I can make out so he would have been 12 or 13 when signing.
So it could be possible but he may just have been spending that particular day with family friends if he's listed as a schoolboy.
Sorry, no idea how much a smack would cost but someone else may be able to help.

Cheers
Kris


----------



## mattarosa

Yorvick said:


> Can anyone help with a rough estimate as to what a Smack would cost in 1881 - and also any ideas on whether an 11 year old boy would be apprenticed to a ship owner in 1861 in Grimsby. His occupation is listed as school boy but he is with a Master and his wife not his parents on the vessel "Thomas"



Hello Yorvick
You may find some info on this very nice site, in the section "Smacks"

http://www.betty-ck145.de/docueng/index.html

In a very brief glance (I have to cut my grass before it starts raining) I noticed mention of smacks of 14 to 40 tons built at Brightlingsea and other places costing about £10 per registered ton for the hull, and a 20-ton smack costing about £180 to equip. This is possibly from a slightly earlier period than you are asking about (1857-67) but hopefully of some use. I also noticed a comment that smacks were often supplied on credit and were expected to repay their modest cost of perhaps ten pounds a ton in a few year's work.

Hilary


----------



## mattarosa

Yorvick said:


> any ideas on whether an 11 year old boy would be apprenticed to a ship owner in 1861 in Grimsby.
> 
> Genealogists’ Magazine Vol. 25, No. 3 (September 1995), pp.99-105 had a very good article entitled "Youth migration – The fisher boy apprentices of Grimsby 1870 – 1914" in which the writer says:
> 
> QUOTE
> In the initial stages children as young as eleven or twelve were bound in a few cases, and it was not until 1883 that a statutory minimum recruitment age of thirteen was established.
> UNQUOTE
> 
> so it is quite possible that your boy could be an apprentice. However, I think if that were the case, his occupation would be given as Apprentice. I am inclined to suspect, like Kris, that there was a different relationship in this case.
> 
> Hilary


----------



## Steve Farrow

Yorvick,

When John Guzzwell ordered a sailing smack to be built by John Bell of Grimsby, on 26/9/1885, the cost was agreed at nine hundred and fifty pounds, the first hundred of which to be paid when the keel was laid.

Steve


----------



## Yorvick

Thank you all for your replies - the "school boy" bit threw me as normally the child would be called "scholar". In 1861 only 61 children where registered in England as a "School Boy" and only two are on "Vessels". It would now appear he is with his newly married sister and her husband a Master Kendall on the vessel Thomas, in Yorkshire. To add further to my confusion I have a copy of my GG Grandfathers apprenticeship papers in 1854, so I wandered what was going on. The cost (aprox) of a smack has been very useful as have the links - Thank you all


----------



## davetodd

TSJ59 said:


> Hello David
> 
> Apologies for the slow response - life’s a bit hectic at present. Thanks for your interesting post that eliminates the need to search those papers/dates.
> You might be interested in these details to the clipping you posted: (three PoW skippers):
> 
> McGovern Patrick, Skipper (b. 1875) of 242 Wellington Street, Grimsby. 13 Feb. 1917 Vessel _King Alfred GY 217_ Sunk 75 miles S. 16 E. of Fair Isle by UC 44 (Kapitänleutnant Kurt Tebbenjohanns)
> 
> Rowson Henry, Skipper (b. 1863) of 132 Grimsby Road, Cleethorpes.
> 14 Feb. 1917 Vessel _Belvoir Castle GY 2_ Sunk 25 miles S. E. of Buchan Ness by UC 44 (Kapitänleutnant Kurt Tebbenjohanns)
> 
> Broomhead G.H. Skipper (b. 1862) of 8 Arlington Street, Grimsby.
> 11 Feb. 1917 Vessel _Ashwold GY 697_ Sunk 130 miles NE by N. of Shields, by UC 44 (Kapitänleutnant Kurt Tebbenjohanns)
> 
> All three skippers were taken prisoner and spent the rest of the war in PoW Camp Brandenburg. I cannot find any reports of casualties(deaths) or PoWs associated with the crews of the three vessels but on 4 Aug 1917 the crew of UC 44 were not so fortunate, UC 44 sank on one of her own mines that prematurely deployed 5207N 0659W, 28 dead and 1 survivor. Kapitänleutnant Kurt Tebbenjohanns PoW 5.8.1917.
> 
> Cheers, Terry


Terry, 
Many thanks for the interesting detail to add to the bare bones of the censored newspaper report.
Grimsby Library are presenting a small exhibition regarding Grimsby and WW1 this coming November and with your permission I will let the Librarian have the details you provided.
Best Regards
Dave.


----------



## TSJ59

Dave - No problems with that - Can provide the sources if required and thanks for info. re. the exhibition I will make sure I attend.

Cheers, Terry


----------



## davetodd

TSJ59 said:


> Dave - No problems with that - Can provide the sources if required and thanks for info. re. the exhibition I will make sure I attend.
> 
> Cheers, Terry


Terry,
I would be obliged if you can let me know the source if you can.
Regards
Dave
P.S. Have attached the info. for the WW1 exhibition.


----------



## JRB9019

*Re. Alfred Bannister*



treeve said:


> I
> I found that there was no list of Alfred Bannister’s vessels as such.
> 
> Vessels owned by Alfred Bannister or subsidiaries.
> Period 1900-1919
> Alfred Bannister Trawlers Ltd
> East Anglia Steam Fishing Company Ltd EASFCo
> Forward Steam Fishing Company Ltd. FSFCo
> Spurn Steam Fishing Company SSFCo
> 
> Algoma; SpurnSFCo; GY 6.
> Andes; GY 5.
> Argentina; GY 566. NICA
> Bernicia; EastAngliaSFCo; 1910 GY 473.
> Brittannia; 1910 GY 410.
> Buzzard;II GY 825.
> Camenes; GY 531
> Dee; GY 513.
> Derwent; GY 525.
> Don; GY 517. NICA
> Dovey; GY 425. NICA
> Edinboro Castle; GY 1285
> Ephraim ? GY ????
> Eulalia (Ocana) GY 273
> Ferret; GY 438 NICA
> Frances GY 903
> Irwell; GY 1176 NICA
> Kalso; 1910 GY 725
> Kestrel; GY 831
> Kuno; 1910 GY 1129 NICA
> Mercia; EASFCo; 1910 GY 1212
> Napier; GY 597 NICA
> Northumbria; EASFCo; GY 169 – Charles Forward (Deck Hand) 1911.
> Northward; ForwardSFCo; 1910 GY 110
> Onward II; FSFCo; 1910 GY 87
> Ophir (II); 1910 GY 171
> Orizaba; 1910 GY 356
> Ostero; GY 200
> Othello; 1910 GY 333
> Saxon II (1894); GY 722 NICA
> Sir James Reckitt; GY 1203 NICA
> Southward; GY 288
> Sylvia; GY 1112
> Teuton; 1900 GY 795
> Videro; GY 980 NICA
> Wessex; EASFCo; 1910 GY???? NICA
> 
> Please can anyone confirm this list, add any Registrations.
> NICA = No information currently available (as far as I am concerned!)
> 
> Best Wishes, Raymond


Hello Raymond,

I have just come across your posting re. Bannister Trawlers.
It's a long time ago (2005) don't know if you remember and if you still access this site. If you do - I would also be interested in finding out more about the company, it's trawlers, history etc. (As you now doubt are wondering why - I'm doing some old family research!!)

Can you (or anyone) give advice on any links that could help me??

Thanks in advance

John


----------



## Roger Griffiths

Hello Raymond

WESSEX 113231 GY1231 first registered 20/9/1902 posted missing 15/12/1914
I could not find EPHRAIM. I have EMPYREAN 136986 GY209 first registered 7/7/1914
If you still need them I will check the others out.


regards
Roger


----------



## davetodd

Steam trawler VONOLEL
Can anyone help with a Port Registration Number for Volonel O.N.132100 
built 1911 by Cochranes yard no. 482
In 1913 the owner is given by Grimsby Archives as William Somerville Letten.
Skipper is given as J.Loftis.
I assume that her port of registry is Grimsby.
Many thanks.
Dave


----------



## TSJ59

Hi Dave - GY 628, 1911 ON 133200 according to _Cox's Steam Trawlers and Liners of Grimsby_
Cheers, Terry

ps PM imminent


----------



## sunrisemac

Hi, I have been sitting here trying to find out a bit more of my Grandad's (James Ward MBE) time at sea on the fishing trawlers, firstly as a lad from Lowestoft and ending up as a skipper in Grimsby until he retired. He was on Salacon and Hondo that I know of around the time of ww2, has anyone heard of either of these 2?

Regards Ian


----------



## TSJ59

Hi - For starters both trawlers were hired in the First World War.
_Hondo_ 1914-19, _Salacon_ 1918-19 and was lost 7th Sept. 1940, (Mined 5.3 miles off Spurn Lighthouse.)

Cheers, Terry


----------



## davetodd

Hello Ian,
Here is some information that I have.

1. Salacon a steam trawler built in 1905 at Beverley Yorkshire.
Her Official Number ( O.N.) was 118948 and her Port Register Number was GY55.
A vessel of 211 Gross Tons and 83 Net tons and in 1934 was owned by the Standard Steam Fishing Co. Ltd. of Grimsby.
She was sunk by mine off the River Humber on 7 Sept. 1940

2. Hondo a steam trawler built in 1919 at Beverley in Yorkshire for the Admiralty as a Castle class trawler and named Doninick Addison with an Admiralty Number 4296.
Her O.N. was 139639 . 290 Gross tons 127 net tons.
Sold in 1919 and renamed Tenedos with a P.R.No. CF4 ( CF=Cardiff)
1929 transferred to Milford Haven P.R.No. M24
During WW2 served as a R.N.minesweeper named Gadfly pendant no. FY517
1948 returned to Milford Haven and transferred to Fleetwood P.R.No. FD277
In 1952 she came to Grimsby and was renamed Hondo P.R.No. GY195
Broken up in 1960.

Hope this helps
Best Regards
Dave


----------



## TSJ59

Hi - Just to clarify there was three Grimsby trawlers named _Hondo_:

_Hondo_ GY.668 ON 303273 Built 1961 by GSB(Goole Shipbuilding Co) for Taylors SF.

_Hondo_ GY.701 ON 132132 Built 1912 by CSY(Cochrane, Selby) for HL Taylor.

and the one in the previous post, ON 139639 built by CWGB 1919 Castle Class _Dominick Addison_ which wasn't named _Hondo_ (GY.195) until Feb. 1952.

Cheers, Terry


----------



## davetodd

TSJ59 said:


> Hi - Just to clarify there was three Grimsby trawlers named _Hondo_:
> 
> _Hondo_ GY.668 ON 303273 Built 1961 by GSB(Goole Shipbuilding Co) for Taylors SF.
> 
> _Hondo_ GY.701 ON 132132 Built 1912 by CSY(Cochrane, Selby) for HL Taylor.
> 
> and the one in the previous post, ON 139639 built by CWGB 1919 Castle Class _Dominick Addison_ which wasn't named _Hondo_ (GY.195) until Feb. 1952.
> 
> Cheers, Terry


Quite right Terry,
I missed one out:-
HONDO GY701 O.N.132132.
In August 1914 served as Minesweeper in WW1 Ad.No. 16 returned to commercial use in 1919.
Owner in 1934 was Diamonds S.F.Co.Ltd. of Grimsby ( H.L.Taylor )
Later sold to Boston D.S.F.Co.Ltd
1943 transferred to Hull H565 lost off Barra Head in that year

Regards
Dave


----------



## Steve Farrow

Hi Ian,
I have just posted a photo of the first HONDO in the Gallery, she must have been the one you are looking for.

Regards

Steve


----------



## mattarosa

According to the Times, the Hondo was in collision with the steam trawler Alida on 20 March 1942. The owner then was Boston Deep Sea Fishing & Ice Co Ltd, who admitted liability for the collision, which took place in the North Sea.


----------



## sunrisemac

Thanks all you kind folks who have taken the time and trouble to reply to my vague question. I have been reading two very tatty news clips from what I think was the Grimsby Chronicle, one describing the Hondo towing a missing trawler 'Presage' into Lowestoft and the other telling the tale of how the Salacon was attacked a couple of times by a German aircraft which was apparently brought down by some concerted rifle fire from 'Skipper Ward and his crew'


----------



## sunrisemac

Hi Steve, what should I search in the gallery under? (I can only find your posting of the harbour wall which looks much as I remember it as a wee lad although I guess the ships were oil powered by then)

Cheers Ian


----------



## mattarosa

Ian, if you go to the gallery and click on "Search". Put Hondo in the keyword box. Three pictures come up. Steve's latest picture is the bottom one.

Hilary


----------



## treeve

Roger Griffiths said:


> Hello Raymond
> WESSEX 113231 GY1231 first registered 20/9/1902 posted missing 15/12/1914
> I could not find EPHRAIM. I have EMPYREAN 136986 GY209 first registered 7/7/1914 - If you still need them I will check the others out.
> regards Roger


Hello John (JRB9019 - post #1248) and Roger(post #1249), thanks for the continuing interest in the Bannister fleets; I rarely wonder why queries start (except that it can often frame the reply and - for that matter - it always helps if we know where other enquiries have led); I am always grateful, Roger, for any information that you may be able to offer; I have not of late been able to make much response on SN, because of other pressures (not the least of which is trying to get back on an even keel with Life); I am making some re-assessment and now wish to continue with much of the research. It would be very good of you Roger, if you could offer any assistance with any other names, thank you, I have not yet fully explored the rest of the details for some time, Best Wishes, Raymond


----------



## TSJ59

Ian - A rough idea of your Grandfather's date of birth might help to find more info. There are at least three James Ward's in Grimsby fishing vessel crew lists circa 1911.

Cheers, Terry


----------



## Anchorman

Just a shot in the dark. I did a delivery run from the Clyde to Grimsby in the 70s on a new trawler the SIOUX. Anyone know what became of her? 
Thanks
Neil


----------



## sunrisemac

Terry, my 'Pop', James Frederick Ward was born in Motford, Suffolk 18/8/1892.
He obtained Mates certificate (Board of Trade) 1919, then obtained Skippers certificate 1934 and skippered steam trawlers out of Lowestoft & Grimsby until he retired.
Cheers Ian


----------



## sunrisemac

Hilary, I guess I must be doing something wrong as having followed you instruction I only get one result as listed here : 
'HONDO,BUILT 1966 FOR SWEDISH OWNERS 77 RENAMED SIFNOS 1994 BROKEN UP'

cheers Ian


----------



## mattarosa

Ian
I have't actually tried this before, but I THINK this is a link to where the photo is.

http://www.shipsnostalgia.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=142756

Hilary


----------



## K urgess

Ian you have to enable the fishing vessel gallery to see it.
http://www.shipsnostalgia.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=142756

Instructions are here -
http://www.shipsnostalgia.com/showthread.php?t=10667


----------



## davetodd

Anchorman said:


> Just a shot in the dark. I did a delivery run from the Clyde to Grimsby in the 70s on a new trawler the SIOUX. Anyone know what became of her?
> Thanks
> Neil


Anchorman,
Don't know what became of her but Grimsby Library have 4 photo's of a SIOUX.
Built 1979 at Renfrew.
She shows a PRN of GY311 and owned by DELGA FISHING CO. of Grimsby
Regards
Dave


----------



## Anchorman

davetodd said:


> Anchorman,
> Don't know what became of her but Grimsby Library have 4 photo's of a SIOUX.
> Built 1979 at Renfrew.
> She shows a PRN of GY311 and owned by DELGA FISHING CO. of Grimsby
> Regards
> Dave


Thanks Dave. I was on leave and Reg Greenbury asked me if I fancied a trip through the Caledonian canal delivering her. Smashing trip and paid as well! 
Regards
Neil


----------



## nicolina

Did the Sioux not capsize in the North Sea with the loss of her skipper????
Boston built 3 ships of this type 
Mohave co-owned by Bostons and skipper Derek Brown
Shavnee ------------------------------ Ray Harris
Sioux owned by Bostons
I think the Mohave and Shavnee where sold to France.


----------



## mattarosa

Hi Nicolina
Thanks for all the great pictures you continue to post.

According to the Times, three deckhands and another man (not crew) were killed on board a 56 ton trawler called Sioux in November 1976. This occurred when the trawler was berthed at North Shields. The fire was caused by sausages being cooked in the oven.

In 1977, five men were rescued and one was killed after the Grimsby trawler Sioux sank in a snowstorm off Spurn Head.

This was evidently an earlier incarnation of the trawler Sioux. If I were a trawler owner, I would think twice about calling a new trawler after a former one with such a sad history. I wonder why this was done?

Hilary


----------



## billblow

Hilary
I've thought the same as you, why would you name a trawler after a lost trawler when there is an endless list of other names. There is in the Grimsby loss list many occasions when the namesake has come to a sticky end.
Too many to name here but just in the S catagory and the Steam vessels first we have Sea King, Silanion, Sisapon, Sophron, If you take the sailing vessels and steam together we have Sarah, Scotia, Secret x4, Shamrock (not so lucky) Sparrow Hawk, Speedwell, Spray, Star, Starling, 
Billblow


----------



## gil mayes

These smaller trawlers are not really my part of ship so I stand corrected.
All three vessels were built by Argyle Ship & Boatbuilding Co Ltd, Renfrew for Hull Gates Shipping Co Ltd, Grimsby, a company in the Parkes set-up. As built they were 57grt on dims 22,56 x 6,71 x 3,6 (draught) with a Blackstone 6.cyl 495bhp. They were not given O.Ns.
MOHAVE (LR no.7340655) completed 1974 (Yd.No.5102) regd GY309
SHAWNEE (LR no.7340755) completed 1975 (Yd.No.5103)regd GY310
SIOUX (LR no.7360435) started by Argyle (Yd.No.5104) but after difficulties completed by J. Harker(Shipyards) Ltd (Argyle Yard), Renfrew in 1976 with some modifications and a LOA of 22,86m. Regd GY311.
From the start they were very good fishers under top skippers but could not make the grossings to keep these men in them. SIOUX initially worked out of North Shields with a Portugese skipper in command, while MOHAVE and SHAWNEE later pair trawled. In January 1977, SHAWNEE she was swamped by the incoming tide due to mackerel stowage problems, all the crew escaping. SIOUX (Sk.Norman Howe)went down in gale force winds 36 miles E of Spurn, the crew being rescued after spending the night in the liferaft, but Sk. Howe lost his life. The other two vessels were laid up pending the results of the Inquiry and were subsequently sold to Delga Fishing Co Ltd, Grimsby a Colne subsidiary and transferred to fish out of Lowestoft. I have a note that MOHAVEand SHAWNEE were chartered by William Liston Granton in June 1979 but it appears that this venture did not work out, probably for the same reasons that the Berwick built vessels failed, and they were quickly returned to Lowestoft. In 1980 both vessels were sold to France I only have a note that the SHAWNEE became the PORTHOS II.
For Bill.
As built for Hull Gates they carried that companies funnel marking - Blue with narrow black top and black letters 'FP' on a black bordered white disc.
Gil.


----------



## billblow

Gil,
Many thanks for that, I have in fact had it drawn up for a while and in the pending section due to the fact I could not positively put a company name to it. I did rather assume there was a Fred Parkes connection but because of the lack of accurate dating of the photo I used and the fairly rapid ownership changes of such vessels I had to leave it in pending, so thanks again for coming to my help.
Bill
Edit, Gill just gone to it and find my funnel is red !


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## Anchorman

Thanks for all the information everyone. Sad to hear she had such a sad story. I was working for Hullgates at the time of delivery running Glasson dk to Isle of Man,so it all fits in.
Best regards
Neil


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## Jim Bullough

I worked for Northern in GY on the Northern Coldstreamer and for Ross on the Lynx and Cheetah.I was off Kevlavik Iceland after a force 12 gale had passed,i had just stepped onto the deck by the aft gallows.I looked forward toward the focastle and all the rest of the deck crew was diving into it.I looked to my right and all i could see was a wall of green water,it had to be 20 to 30 ft. high.It crested bounced off the deck picked me up and set me on the boat deck,best part of the ordeal was the glass of rum i was given by the 3rd hand.lol


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## mattarosa

*Golden Deeps*

76 years ago today, on 7 November 1932, The Times and Guardian reported the loss of 13 crew of the Grimsby trawler Golden Deeps when she was wrecked off Breiviksbotn on Soro Island off the north west coast of Norway the night before.

Rest in peace.


----------



## trotterdotpom

Thanks Hilary. Have you any more details?

John T.


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## TSJ59

*Ross Jaguar*

Hello - Just to advise to anyone that may be interested - The former _Ross Jaguar_, now _Jaguar_. This Cat’s globe-trotting third life continues. She sailed on 30th Oct. ‘08 from Port Moresby, Papua New Guinea on a new voyage heading for Langkawi, Malaysia. Position and news will be reported daily on the website:
http://www.tallshipjaguar.com
Cheers, Terry


----------



## Steve Farrow

Thanks Terry,

I thought about the JAGUAR last night and wondered where she was! I had just changed my desk top to this photo of her that I took the day before she sailed from GY.

Steve


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## TSJ59

Steve - That is a great photo of Jaguar. I was on board that night and one of the crew as far as Gibraltar.

Cheers, Terry


----------



## davetodd

TSJ59 said:


> Steve - That is a great photo of Jaguar. I was on board that night and one of the crew as far as Gibraltar.
> 
> Cheers, Terry


Terry
Wasn't Alan Carter engineer on that first voyage?
Dave


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## TSJ59

Dave, Yes he was - then joined by his wife Kristin at Gib. and stayed on as far as Panama.

Cheers, Terry


----------



## TSJ59

*Lord Stanhope GY 401*

Hello.

Can any one help to clarify conflicting details of this Grimsby trawler lost Nov.1914 in a non-war related incident, (collision with Inner Dowsing Light Vessel)?:

S.T. _Lord Stanhope_ GY 401. ON 109820, Built 1898 by CWGH 

Date registered GY 401?

Date of the collision?

Fate of the crew?

Cheers, Terry


----------



## Steve Farrow

Terry,
The best I can tell you is that she was re-named Lord Stanhope in 1914 and sank after a collision with the Inner Dowsing light vessel on 14th of November that year. She was built as the Strephon in 1898 by CWGH. Both Charles Cox and the authors of CWGB have her as being registeredto the Beacon Stean Fishing Co of GY on 10/12/1914.......after the date of her loss???

Steve


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## TSJ59

Thanks Steve - It was the date discrepancy in those two references that prompted the query but I also hoped for some info. on the crew. I guess it is another for my ever growing look-up list.

Cheers, Terry


----------



## gil mayes

Odd Steve, but the dates are correct, perhaps the paperwork did not catch up. LORD STANHOPE (109820) was registered at Grimsby 15.12.1914 as (GY401) - as Cox & CW&G state. The Grimsby registry was closed 28.12.1914 with the notation 'Foundered'. She had been in the ownership of The Port of Blyth Steam Fishing & Ice Co Ltd, Blyth (John E. Rushworth, manager), from 3.1912 renamed LORD STANHOPE (BH95) having been sold from Grimsby as STREPHON with her previous Grimsby registry (GY852) closed on 2.4.1912.
Gil.


----------



## TSJ59

Hello Gil, Does that mean if she was not officially a Grimsby vessel when lost, if the loss was a due to collision with the Inner Dowsing light vessel on 14th of November that year?

Cheers, Terry


----------



## gil mayes

There was a war on at the time and it may well have been the case that the Blyth registration had been closed prior to her loss but not officially recorded as Grimsby registered until the dates shown. It is extraordinary, and while I know of other cases of gaps, the vessel has usually not been at sea in the interval. Sorry I cannot answer your query.
Gil.


----------



## TSJ59

Gil and Steve - Thanks for taking the time to look at this - I thought it might be a case of typos but seems not.

Cheers, Terry


----------



## Rick Garner

Hi 
I believe my father Pete Garner was also on the Ernest Holt in 48.
Rick


----------



## TSJ59

*Alicia*

Hello,

_Alicia_ is listed with this brief entry in David Boswell’s _Lost List of Grimsby Vessels - 1800 to 1960_: 

1 Feb. 1915 ALICIA - Missing since 1.2.1915. 

Can anyone supply any more information on this Grimsby? vessel? 

Cheers, Terry


----------



## MissSki

*Anyone know anything about the Scampton or Ogano?*

Hello all

I am new to the Shipping Nostalgia forum so my apologies if this is in the wrong place!
I have joined to try and find out some information about a skipper from Grimsby who was lost at sea in the 1960s. I was hoping that there may be someone in the Grimsby and wider area who might be able to supply me with some information, the local council and library don't have much on record. 

I would love to hear from anyone who might know anything about the following gentleman (even a tiny bit of information will be helpful):

Harold Chandler, skipper of Scampton.
He was lost from the Ogano, a ship he was guest-skipper of when the acting Skipper was unable to go out that night, on June 6 1962 near the Faroe Islands. He was aged 50 when he died. 
His body was never recovered and so a cause of death was never determined.

I hope there's someone out there who might be able to help!

Thanks all.


----------



## nicolina

Hallo Miski
There was a short notice in the Fishing News about the loss of skipper Harry Chandler from the Grimsby trawler Ogano where he was relieving her regular skipper.
There must have been held an inquire at Grimsby about the cir***stances leading to his loss.
Would suppose that the Grimsby papers should have some informations about this tragic loss.


----------



## Steve Farrow

TSJ59 said:


> Hello,
> 
> _Alicia_ is listed with this brief entry in David Boswell’s _Lost List of Grimsby Vessels - 1800 to 1960_:
> 
> 1 Feb. 1915 ALICIA - Missing since 1.2.1915.
> 
> Can anyone supply any more information on this Grimsby? vessel?
> 
> Cheers, Terry


Terry,

This vessel does not appear in Charles Cox's books of Trawlers and Liners out of Grimsby or his Sailing Trawlers. In Boswell's book, he gives no tonnage which seems rather odd. 
Maybe she was too small to be listed. A copy of Olsen's Almanack of 1914 might give the answer.....Grimsby Library should hold a copy.

Steve


----------



## Yorvick

*Life Aboard Fishing Smacks 1840's*

My ancestors Isaac Brusey b 1780's, his son William Howard Brusey, originally Brixham and then Grimsby, John Forester, his brothers Anthony and Charles, Grimsby and all succeeding generations were smack owners, masters and fishermen in the 1800's and the families continued to fish thru to the 1930's. It would appear that the Brusey's in particular where very hard men, as I have read newspaper reports of hard labour convictions for their apprentices, and a manslaughter charge. 

I have an account written by my father on life aboard whilst fishing the arctic circle in the 30's but I am very keen to find out about the lives of the fishermen in the 1800's. I have read this excellent article (Link below) but I am very keen to learn more.

http://www.welcometohull.co.uk/Abouthull/Do***ents/Trawling in Hull.pdf

As whole families are missing during early census's it would appear their families travelled with them, maybe as deck hands and cooks - cld this be the case?

How far would they go in a smack?

How long could they be out at sea fishing without refrigeration?

In Grimsby what was the fishing season?

Could and would their home port be different from the port they landed their catch? As William Brusey was born Brixham, married Liverpool, fished out of Grimsby, but his children born in Brixham.

As dozens and dozens of families migrated from Brixham to Yorkshire and Linc's was there a decline in fishing in the Devon region mid to late 1800's?

I have so many questions and "googling" as not providing many answers.

So if anyone can help me by describing life on board during these hard times it will be appreciated. Thank you

Yor


----------



## davetodd

Yorvick said:


> My ancestors Isaac Brusey b 1780's, his son William Howard Brusey, originally Brixham and then Grimsby, John Forester, his brothers Anthony and Charles, Grimsby and all succeeding generations were smack owners, masters and fishermen in the 1800's and the families continued to fish thru to the 1930's. It would appear that the Brusey's in particular where very hard men, as I have read newspaper reports of hard labour convictions for their apprentices, and a manslaughter charge.
> 
> I have an account written by my father on life aboard whilst fishing the arctic circle in the 30's but I am very keen to find out about the lives of the fishermen in the 1800's. I have read this excellent article (Link below) but I am very keen to learn more.
> 
> http://www.welcometohull.co.uk/Abouthull/Do***ents/Trawling in Hull.pdf
> 
> As whole families are missing during early census's it would appear their families travelled with them, maybe as deck hands and cooks - cld this be the case?
> 
> How far would they go in a smack?
> 
> How long could they be out at sea fishing without refrigeration?
> 
> In Grimsby what was the fishing season?
> 
> Could and would their home port be different from the port they landed their catch? As William Brusey was born Brixham, married Liverpool, fished out of Grimsby, but his children born in Brixham.
> 
> As dozens and dozens of families migrated from Brixham to Yorkshire and Linc's was there a decline in fishing in the Devon region mid to late 1800's?
> 
> I have so many questions and "googling" as not providing many answers.
> 
> So if anyone can help me by describing life on board during these hard times it will be appreciated. Thank you
> 
> Yor


A book describing the life at sea and at home for a fishing smack family is:-
" OUT OF GRIMSBY " by the late Alf May.
Paperback ISBN 0 902662 87 2

A true account, very well written but keep your tissues handy.

Also, you can contact the Central Library at Grimsby Tel.01472 323603.
I'm sure they can offer suggestions to get you underway.

Best Regards
Dave


----------



## Yorvick

Thank you for that Dave - I will look for the book - but unfortunately being NZ based I am pretty much reliant on the internet and the generousity of the forum contributers.

Thank you

Yor


----------



## davetodd

Yorvick
Perhaps you could try this website:-
www.nelincs.gov.uk/Leisure/Archives
In the top right click ONLINE ARCHIVE CATALOGUES
In the search box ANY TEXT type in your ancestors surname.
Plenty of entries there for Brusey and Forester.
Dave


----------



## Steve Farrow

Yorvick,


Another book dedicated to the sailing smacks is called 'SAILING TRAWLERS' by Edgar J. March. It sometimes crops up on ebay and it isn't cheap (Mine was £45, but well worth it) It was written in 1953 and re-printed in 1970. It gives a good insight to the everyday working life of the smacksmen and their vessels with many photographs and plans of the smacks.
The smacks from Grimsby worked the North Sea grounds and as far away as Iceland and Greenland. Many families came up and settled in Grimsby and Hull from Brixham to be close to the lucrative fishing grounds off the Humber.
Have you looked at Chris Petheridge's excellent web site about Hull trawlers? www.hulltrawler.net 

Steve


----------



## billblow

Yorvick
There are at least 324 entries for Brusey in the North East Lincolnshire Archive that are on line. They date from 1880 to I think they go to around 1908 for Brusey. Alas Yorvick I don’t know how to do you a link but I think Dave could help you there.
To give you a flavour.
There was a J Brusey classed as agent for smacks John and Ann, Vivandiere, Enigma, Sappho, Prince Alfred, Boreta, Angusina, Enchantress, Wilberforce, Cambria, Fearless, Knight Errant, Livonia, Zingra, Hope, Enchanter, Argo, and owner also of Cetonia and Dick Whittington.
W. J. Brusey owner of Florence and H Brusey owner of John Guzzwell.
Like my ancestor smack owners they sold up and moved into skippering steam vessels and between them the skippered vessels Tasmania,Kymric, Caledonia, Zenobia, Rosedale, Columbia, Zarina, Cephalonia, Isernia, Nero, Oleria, Cassoria, Bangkok, St Louis, St Lawrence Battle Abbey,
W Brusey ticket number 12 H Brusey ticket number 954
Billblow


----------



## billblow

Yorvick
I see now Dave beat me to it but any way you should find at least these above
Bill


----------



## Yorvick

Thank you for that Dave - I have spent many a happy hour trawling thru that site, its a good one isn't it - but what I am really after is a descripton of their lives, and details of the fishing industry in the 1800's, if it is all possible.

Thank you for help - it is nice to have people share their knowledge.

Yor


----------



## Yorvick

Thank you all for your speedy responses to my questions, I will check out the web sites you have sent me, and keep an eye out for the books you have mentioned. It must have been a hard life. 

My father spoke of his family - where 6 out of seven brothers or half brothers, all of the same generation, honourably drowned at sea in the 1860's and later. 

Of course the widows normally with young children, remarried, usually into the same social circle, had more children, and the cycle would begin again. 

Margaret Emma Brusey daughter of William Howard Brusey married 3 times before she conceded defeat and married a railway worker. The saddest thing is she gave birth to her 3rd child 8 months after her husband of 5 years drowned in 1863. A new husband a year later, 3 more children and then he drowned also. What a hard life for a comparatively young woman with 6 mouths to feed.

Thank you all

Yor


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## TSJ59

Thanks Steve I'll add _Alicia_ to my growing look-up list!

Cheers, Terry


----------



## mattarosa

*Vessel Bradford*

Can anyone help me to interpret this from the NE Lincs online archives? 

There seem to be too many names (over 30) for one crew and there are two skippers.

I'd be interested in any other information about the Bradford too.

QUOTE
Bradford 
Date 1911 
Description vessel Bradford; owner J D Marsden; skipper John Constantine, certificate 5352 Crew: John Constantine 5352 Aged 37 Liverpool, F R Matthews 7601 2nd Hand 32 Thornham, G Durrane 1st Eng 28 Grimsby, J Ashton 2nd Eng 32 Hull, C H Lawson 3rd Hand 28 Yarmouth, S Gates Deckhand 58 Yarmouth, E v D Filehun Deckhand 20 Finland, J Martin Trimmer 35 Grimsby, W Stubbings Steward 43 London, A George 3rd Hand 23 Grimsby, J Galavin Trimmer 40 London, A Blackburn 6413 Skipper 46 Sheffield, P Goodson Trimmer 22 Yarmouth, L Bartle 3rd Hand 25 Hull, J W Smith Deckhand 58 London, R Greenwood 3584 2nd Hand 44 Grimsby, E Brett 3rd Hand 23 Gorleston, J Mathieson 2nd Eng 27 Glasgow, A Brown Deckhand 21 Grimsby, E G Shaw 2nd Eng 30 Notts, J O White Steward 38 New South Wales, T Headlam Steward 43 Scarboro, S Burns Deckhand 39 Manchester, A Brown Deckhand 21 Grimsby, J Ritson 2nd Eng 42 Greenwich, N Hayles Trimmer 23 Scarboro, J Robinson Trimmer 36 Notts, H Nielsen Trimmer 29 Denmark, Arthur Mooney Spare Hand 18 Grimsby, Jim Burton Spare Hand 17 York, J Sestter Deckhand 28 Filey, W Stevens 2nd Eng 32 Bradford, E Coll Trimmer 31 Liverpool, G Meadows Deckhand 21 Grimsby, A White Deckhand 19 Ashton under Lyme. 
UNQUOTE

Thanks
Hilary


----------



## mattarosa

*Golden Deeps*



trotterdotpom said:


> Thanks Hilary. Have you any more details?
> 
> John T.



Hi John
You have had a long wait for this information, but I hope you will find it of interest.

From the Guardian:
Nov 7, 1932
GRIMSBY TRAWLER AGROUND
Gale off Norway
Tromsoe, Sunday

The British trawler Golden Deeps has gone aground in a violent gale off Breivikbotn, in Western Finmarken, at the extreme North of Norway, according to an urgent telegram received here. It is stated that it is impossible to render assistance to the stricken vessel.
Member's of the trawler's crew could be seen among the breakers, but the rough weather prevented any attempt being made to save them.
The trawler is said to be aground on the open shore. It is difficult to obtain confirmation of the reports owing to the fact that many of the telephone and telegraph lines have been blown down in the gale which has swept over the north of Norway during the day.
The Golden Deeps is owned by The Strand Fishing Company Limited, of Grimsby. She has a tonnage of 368 and is equipped with wireless. She was built in 1930.
The owners of the Golden Deeps had not received any news of the reported accident late last night. The vessel is skippered by a Grimsby man, Norman Rodgers, and carries a crew of thirteen. She left Grimsby a fortnight ago.

STOP PRESS
A Reuter telegram from Oslo says that the captain and three passengers of the Grimsby trawler Golden Deeps wrecked off Norway are reported to have been saved, while the crew of 13 are reported to have been lost.


I believe the captain was not lost because he was not on board when the trawler struck, having gone ashore before the accident. I assume the same goes for the passengers, whoever they were.

Hilary


----------



## mattarosa

*Golden Deeps*

A bit more

From the Times:
Monday, Nov 07, 1932
News in Brief 
The British trawler Golden Deeps went ashore yesterday afternoon on Soro Island, off the north of Norway, in a storm. Up to a late hour last night it had been impossible to save the crew.

Tuesday, Nov 08, 1932
Grimsby Trawler Wrecked Watchers Unable To Help, 12 Bodies Recovered 
Oslo, Nov 7
Thirteen members of the crew of the trawler Golden Deeps of Grimsby, lost their lives when she was wrecked off Breiviksbotn, on Soro Island, off the north-west coast of Norway, yesterday. Her master, Captain Norman, and two passengers, one of whom is the brother in law of her owner and the other a Grimsby fish merchant, are safe, as they were on shore at the time of the wreck.
The trawler anchored at 1 p.m. off Breiviksbotn, and the master and his passengers went ashore. About 3 p.m. the gale increased to hurricane force, making communication with the trawler impossible, and in a squall the anchor chain parted. As the trawler began to drift the crew could be seen working to drop another anchor, and twice the ship was brought up against the wind; but in vain. The heavy seas drove her before them, and when about 150 yards from the shore she struck and disappeared under the surf. Only her masts and funnel were partly visible.
All the inhabitants of the little fishing village gathered on the shore, but were quite unable to help. Some of the crew tried to swim ashore, but perished in the surf; others clung to the masts, and it was not until three hours after the trawler had struck that their cries for help ceased.
During the night 12 bodies were washed ashore. It is supposed that some accident crippled the trawler's engines after the anchor chain parted.

Wednesday, Nov 09, 1932
News in Brief 
The Wreck of the Golden Deeps
It is now known that only 11 bodies were washed ashore from the wreck of the trawler Golden Deeps. Two members of the crew are missing. It is supposed that they were caught in the engine room. One of the men drowned was a young Swedish journalist who was a passenger on board the trawler. It has been estimated that during the gale, in which she was cast away, the wind blew at over 75 miles an hour.

Thursday, Nov 10, 1932
The Loss of the Golden Deeps
Oslo, Nov 9
The bodies of 10 of the crew of the trawler Golden Deeps of Grimsby, which sank near Breiviksbotn, off the north-west coast of Norway, on Sunday, have now been indentified. The names of the men are given as follows:-
Bel (Bill?) Ottlay (mate), Ernest Rogers (boatswain), Belstone (engineer), Eaterson and Ottlay Smith (stokers), Fred James, Gus Benson, Ted Marshall, Blake and Richardson (seamen).
The bodies of Grant (engineer) and the steward, whose name is unknown, have not yet been found.

Wednesday, Nov 16, 1932
The Wreck Of The Golden Deeps 
Oslo, Nov 15
The funeral at Tromso of nine Englishmen and two Swedes who lost their lives when the trawler Golden Deeps was wrecked on November 6 was attended by more than 4,000 people in and round the church, and during it all offices and shops in Tromso were closed for two hours.
The ceremony was also attended by the foreign Consuls, military and municipal authorities, a detachment of officers and men from the Norwegian mon-of-war Fridtjof Nansen, the crew of the British trawler Veresis, and the Master and two passengers of the Golden Deeps. Deputy-Bishop Nissen conducted the service, and master mariners, pilots and other sailors carried the coffins to the churchyard, where they were buried in one grave.


R.I.P.


----------



## mattarosa

*Golden Deeps P.S.*

I can't help contrasting the news of the wreck of the Golden Deeps with this very short news item barely two years earlier.

The Times, Thursday, Aug 28, 1930
British Shipbuilding Four Launches This Week 
The Golden Deeps which was launched at Grimsby this week, is the biggest trawler built for the port since the war. She was launched at the Selby shipyard of Messrs Cochrane and Sons, and has been built to the order of Messrs H Croft Baker and Sons, of Grimsby. She is 150 ft in length with a beam of 25 ft. The vessel will be engaged in the deep-sea fishing grounds at Iceland, Murman Coast, and Bear Island.


For me, the Golden Deeps, probably because of its lovely name, really emphasises the stark contrast between the misplaced romanticism we sometimes attach to the industry, and the harsh reality.

It would be interesting to know how the loss was reported locally in Grimsby.

Hilary


----------



## davetodd

mattarosa said:


> Can anyone help me to interpret this from the NE Lincs online archives?
> 
> There seem to be too many names (over 30) for one crew and there are two skippers.
> 
> I'd be interested in any other information about the Bradford too.
> 
> QUOTE
> Bradford
> Date 1911
> Description vessel Bradford; owner J D Marsden; skipper John Constantine, certificate 5352 Crew: John Constantine 5352 Aged 37 Liverpool, F R Matthews 7601 2nd Hand 32 Thornham, G Durrane 1st Eng 28 Grimsby, J Ashton 2nd Eng 32 Hull, C H Lawson 3rd Hand 28 Yarmouth, S Gates Deckhand 58 Yarmouth, E v D Filehun Deckhand 20 Finland, J Martin Trimmer 35 Grimsby, W Stubbings Steward 43 London, A George 3rd Hand 23 Grimsby, J Galavin Trimmer 40 London, A Blackburn 6413 Skipper 46 Sheffield, P Goodson Trimmer 22 Yarmouth, L Bartle 3rd Hand 25 Hull, J W Smith Deckhand 58 London, R Greenwood 3584 2nd Hand 44 Grimsby, E Brett 3rd Hand 23 Gorleston, J Mathieson 2nd Eng 27 Glasgow, A Brown Deckhand 21 Grimsby, E G Shaw 2nd Eng 30 Notts, J O White Steward 38 New South Wales, T Headlam Steward 43 Scarboro, S Burns Deckhand 39 Manchester, A Brown Deckhand 21 Grimsby, J Ritson 2nd Eng 42 Greenwich, N Hayles Trimmer 23 Scarboro, J Robinson Trimmer 36 Notts, H Nielsen Trimmer 29 Denmark, Arthur Mooney Spare Hand 18 Grimsby, Jim Burton Spare Hand 17 York, J Sestter Deckhand 28 Filey, W Stevens 2nd Eng 32 Bradford, E Coll Trimmer 31 Liverpool, G Meadows Deckhand 21 Grimsby, A White Deckhand 19 Ashton under Lyme.
> UNQUOTE
> 
> Thanks
> Hilary


Hilary
The crew lists shown on the Archives on line catalogue are transcripts from the actual original booklets held at N.E.Lincs. Archives.
These booklets were continuous records which ran for about six months.
Sort of diary for the ship.
Barry Johnson's excellent website " Milford Trawlers " has an example of this Running Agreement.
Go to Gallery and then Do***ents to find Crew List for " Sea Lark ".
Sometimes an entry will read " At sea during census " or enties such as " Failed to sign off " for particular crew member.
Hence, during that period crew changes would occur.
Unfortunately, dates are not given in the transcripts.
Some of these booklets are in poor condition and often difficult to read being handwritten by many different people using various pens, pencils etc.
I'm sure the transcribers have done their best for accuracy, but undoubtably errors will occur.

Also. addresses of crewmembers were sometimes added but not always.
Not included in the transcripts.
These do***ents can be invaluable to anyone researching family history.
As far as I know, none of these booklets written after 1911/12 exist.
Hope this helps.

Regards
Dave


----------



## TSJ59

mattarosa said:


> Can anyone help me to interpret this from the NE Lincs online archives?
> I'd be interested in any other information about the Bradford too.
> Thanks
> Hilary


Hilary,
28 Oct. 1916 H.M.Trawler. BRADFORD No. 829 
163 gt. 104ft x 20.5ft; 1 x 6pdr ON 106677
Skipper William Bruce RNR

Registered 11/1896, (S.T. Bradford GY 132), Built 1896 by Mackie & Thompson, Goven. 

Requisitioned 1914 by the Royal Navy as a Patrol Vessel. 
Disappeared off Old Head of Kinsale, last seen at 4.40pm on 26th October. Presumed to have floundered with the loss of all hands, one officer and eleven ratings, in strong winds and heavy seas that affected the area on the 28th October.
[TNA: PRO ADM 137/455]
I have a list of the casualties if you require it?

Cheers, Terry


----------



## gil mayes

Very minor point Terry, but WW1 requisitioned trawlers were given Admiralty Numbers and they did not carry the prefix 'FY'. 
Gil.


----------



## TSJ59

Gil - Thanks for that correction - I'm not sure where I got the 'FY' from!

Cheers, Terry

Confused now after looking through CW&G Where many of the requisitioned vessels have the FY prefix to their number?


----------



## mattarosa

davetodd said:


> Hilary
> 
> 
> Hope this helps.
> 
> Regards
> Dave



It is a great help, Dave. Thank you.


----------



## mattarosa

TSJ59 said:


> 28 Oct. 1916 H.M.Trawler. BRADFORD No. 829
> 163 gt. 104ft x 20.5ft; 1 x 6pdr ON 106677
> Skipper William Bruce RNR
> 
> Registered 11/1896, (S.T. Bradford GY 132), Built 1896 by Mackie & Thompson, Goven.
> 
> Requisitioned 1914 by the Royal Navy as a Patrol Vessel.
> Disappeared off Old Head of Kinsale, last seen at 4.40pm on 26th October. Presumed to have floundered with the loss of all hands, one officer and eleven ratings, in strong winds and heavy seas that affected the area on the 28th October.
> [TNA: PRO ADM 137/455]
> I have a list of the casualties if you require it?
> 
> Terry
> Many thanks for the information. I don't think the crew member I am interested in was on board when she was lost, but just in case, I would be interested in a list of the casualties. Will you post it here, or should I send you my email address?
> 
> Thanks again.
> Hilary


----------



## TSJ59

Hilary - Here is the list of _Bradford's_ casualties.
Could only find eleven for 28th Oct. 1916 plus one on the 12th Dec. 1914

ANDERSON, Alexander (26) Deck Hand, 9932DA RNR.
Son of William Anderson, of 26 Dalgleish St., Tayport, Fife.

BORMAN, Jack (29) Deck Hand, 2601DA RNR 
Son of John and Mary Ann Borman, of Grimsby; husband of Mary A. Green (formerly Borman), of White Hart, Gayton, King's Lynn, Norfolk.

BRUCE, William (33) D.S.C., Skipper RNR
Son of James and Elizabeth Bruce, of Legg; Husband of Jane Farquhar Bruce, of 7, March St., Auche.

ENGLEFIELD, Percy. Trimmer Cook 174TC RNR

JACOBS, George Richard. Engineman 1239/S(CH) RNR
Husband of Nellie Jacobs, of 168, Patrick St., Grimsby.
(PULLA GRAVEYARD)

JONES, David Ivor. Trimmer 443ST RNR 

LAFFERTY, Edward (22) Seaman 6033A RNR 
Son of John and Elizabeth Lafferty, of 9, Bolgam St., Campbeltown, Argyllshire. 

MEIN, John (23) Second Hand 2359SA RNR 
Son of David and Eliza Mein, of 64, Society St., Nairn.

PETHERICK, David James, (31) Engineman 2485TS RNR 
Son of David James Petherick, of Briton Ferry, Neath, Glam.; husband of the late Rose Petherick. 

SHARP, John Henry (35) Deck Hand 2108DA RNR 
Son of John Henry and Sarah Elizabeth Sharp, of Grimsby; husband of Jessie Sharp, of 32, Ripon St., Grimsby.

WOOD, Andrew William Morrice, Trimmer 65TS RNR

12/12/1914
DAWSON, F. Trimmer 1219/TS RNR
EAST LONDON CEMETERY, PLAISTOW

Cheers, Terry


----------



## mattarosa

TSJ59 said:


> Hilary - Here is the list of _Bradford's_ casualties.
> 
> Terry
> Many thanks for all that typing, and the information.
> Hilary


----------



## helenc

*Mfv Waddington*

Has anyone got a photo or details of MFV Waddington.

Or does anyone have any details of what ships my unlce sailed on. His name Ron Collins, I know that he was on the trawlers but also was sailed out of Saudi.

Appreciate if anyone can provide any details


----------



## davetodd

helenc said:


> Has anyone got a photo or details of MFV Waddington.
> 
> Or does anyone have any details of what ships my unlce sailed on. His name Ron Collins, I know that he was on the trawlers but also was sailed out of Saudi.
> 
> Appreciate if anyone can provide any details


helenc
Waddington was a Motor Trawler built by Richard Dunston Shipyard of Hessle in Yorkshire.
Her Official Number 303286 Gross tonnage 225 and net tonnage 74.
Originally built for Peter Sleight Trawlers Ltd. of Grimsby and had a Port Registration GY680.
In 1975 she was transferred to Lowestoft.
The Central Library at Grimsby have one photograph of Waddington GY680
and four as a standby vessel. ( no P.R.N.)
Regards
Dave


----------



## helenc

Dave.

Thanks very much really appreciated

Helenc


----------



## Jim Bullough

Record Number 2425 
Resource Identifier floh24072006022 
Vessel Name Coldstreamer 
Fishing Number GY10 
Type of Vessel ST 
Year Constructed 1955 
Constructed By Rickmers Werft 
Constructed At Bremerhaven 
Gross Tons 697 
Length 189.5 ft 
Beam 31.8 ft 
Depth 14.5 ft 
Construction Notes Yard No. 273 
Date Scrapped 1976 

The Coldstreamer used to be an oil burner,then she was coverted to diesel.Not sure when she was converted tho.


----------



## Jim Bullough

Coldstreamer GY10


----------



## nicolina

Sorry Jim but the Coldstreamer was an oil fired steam trawler throughout her whole career.
As you mention she went through an big repair/classification in the late 60Thies/Early70Thies and i am not sure if she had new furnaces fitted at that time.


----------



## davetodd

Jim
nicolina is correct regarding the Coldstreamer.
On more than one occasion and in more than one publication, the description has been mistakenly given as "One of the new diesel deep sea trawlers".
Most notable of these is, in my opinion, appears in the "Official Guide" for Grimsby published in 1958/9.
Quite a few steam trawlers were converted to Diesel but not this one, nor as far as I know were any of the "Military" class built in Germany for the group of companies which were known as "Standard S.F.Co.Ltd." "Loyal S.F.Co.Ltd." " Great Grimsby and East Coast S.F.Co.Ltd." ( Butt Group of Companies)

Best Regards
Dave


----------



## Smiffy

Can anyone help with info on a particular ship building company in 1800's Grimsby?
I'm trying to authenticate a company which I believe was called Smith and Stephenson. In several census listings the company was mentioned and the address given was 61 Cleethorpes Rd, however this could have been a private residence.

My GGG Grandfather was a co-owner of this company and employed quite a few men and boys. He was also a Smack owner and I'm wondering how I can find out the name of the boat he owned, all I have is his name... Richard Smith and I believe the the other owner of the company may have been William Stephenson.

Any help you can give would be very much appreciated.

Smiffy


----------



## davetodd

Smiffy said:


> Can anyone help with info on a particular ship building company in 1800's Grimsby?
> I'm trying to authenticate a company which I believe was called Smith and Stephenson. In several census listings the company was mentioned and the address given was 61 Cleethorpes Rd, however this could have been a private residence.
> 
> My GGG Grandfather was a co-owner of this company and employed quite a few men and boys. He was also a Smack owner and I'm wondering how I can find out the name of the boat he owned, all I have is his name... Richard Smith and I believe the the other owner of the company may have been William Stephenson.
> 
> Any help you can give would be very much appreciated.
> 
> Smiffy


Hello Smiffy
You may like to try :-
www.nelincs.gov.uk/Leisure/Archives
At the top right you should see "Online Archives catalogue"
Click on that and in the search box marked "Any Text" enter "stephenson"
That should get a few entries, but the 1888 one could be what you are seeking.
Vessel name TORALIUM Owner Smith and Stephenson Skipper G.Dixon
Unfortunately, the archives are closed due to illness but should re-open in January next year.

The 1911 Grimsby Directory has "W.Stephenson & Co. Ltd. Marine & General Engineers Holme Street Fish Docks Grimsby".
Also in the 1911 Directory 61 Cleethorpe Road is listed as "Ladies Cloakroom, caretaker Mrs.E.Haviland"

Best wishes with your research.
Dave


----------



## Graham Kimber

Hi Clem
I have only just joined and was very pleased to see that you mentioned knowing someone with a list of fishing smacks.
I am trying to locate information on a distant relative "Thomas Strickland" last seen on census of 1881 on board the fishing smack "The Martin" on the Dogger Fishing grounds. "strange that a census should be taken on such a small vessel whilst fishing"
His address around that time was church street Boston, lincs,UK.
we dont know where the Martin was moored, we guess it was in boston but anything could be possible
we are trying to locate the owner/s or any history about the "the martin" 
Do you have any ideas as to where I should begin.
We do have 5 other crew members names

all the best for the moment Graham


----------



## Smiffy

davetodd said:


> Hello Smiffy
> You may like to try :-
> www.nelincs.gov.uk/Leisure/Archives
> At the top right you should see "Online Archives catalogue"
> Click on that and in the search box marked "Any Text" enter "stephenson"
> That should get a few entries, but the 1888 one could be what you are seeking.
> Vessel name TORALIUM Owner Smith and Stephenson Skipper G.Dixon
> Unfortunately, the archives are closed due to illness but should re-open in January next year.
> 
> The 1911 Grimsby Directory has "W.Stephenson & Co. Ltd. Marine & General Engineers Holme Street Fish Docks Grimsby".
> Also in the 1911 Directory 61 Cleethorpe Road is listed as "Ladies Cloakroom, caretaker Mrs.E.Haviland"
> 
> Best wishes with your research.
> Dave



Dave, thankyou so much for this. It's my first lead. Really appreciate your help.

Smiffy


----------



## Steve Farrow

Smiffy said:


> Can anyone help with info on a particular ship building company in 1800's Grimsby?
> I'm trying to authenticate a company which I believe was called Smith and Stephenson. In several census listings the company was mentioned and the address given was 61 Cleethorpes Rd, however this could have been a private residence.
> 
> My GGG Grandfather was a co-owner of this company and employed quite a few men and boys. He was also a Smack owner and I'm wondering how I can find out the name of the boat he owned, all I have is his name... Richard Smith and I believe the the other owner of the company may have been William Stephenson.
> 
> Any help you can give would be very much appreciated.
> 
> Smiffy


If you get hold of a copy of Charles Cox's, "Sailing Trawlers and Liners of Grimsby", it will give you a list of all the smacks that were registered in Grimsby and their builders. 

Steve www.trawlerart.com


----------



## Steve Farrow

Graham Kimber said:


> Hi Clem
> I have only just joined and was very pleased to see that you mentioned knowing someone with a list of fishing smacks.
> I am trying to locate information on a distant relative "Thomas Strickland" last seen on census of 1881 on board the fishing smack "The Martin" on the Dogger Fishing grounds. "strange that a census should be taken on such a small vessel whilst fishing"
> His address around that time was church street Boston, lincs,UK.
> we dont know where the Martin was moored, we guess it was in boston but anything could be possible
> we are trying to locate the owner/s or any history about the "the martin"
> Do you have any ideas as to where I should begin.
> We do have 5 other crew members names
> 
> all the best for the moment Graham


Graham,

The Grimsby smack, MARTIN was lost in 24th August 1882. She was GY 430 and was built by R. Redway in Dartmouth. She was a ketch rigged sailing trawler of 67.6' x 19' x 9.6' and carried 3 men and 2 boys. Her official builders number was 67717. Could this be the vessel you are looking for?

Steve


----------



## davetodd

Smiffy said:


> Dave, thankyou so much for this. It's my first lead. Really appreciate your help.
> 
> Smiffy


Bit more info. for you Smiffy.
TORALIUM was built in 1877 and had a Port Registration Number(PRN) GY609.
Her Official Number(ON) was76689.
This vessel was removed from the Grimsby Register in 1897.
It is most likely, but not definite, that she was broken up or sold as the steam trawlers began to make the sailing smacks uneconomical.

Best Regards
Dave


----------



## Smiffy

davetodd said:


> Bit more info. for you Smiffy.
> TORALIUM was built in 1877 and had a Port Registration Number(PRN) GY609.
> Her Official Number(ON) was76689.
> This vessel was removed from the Grimsby Register in 1897.
> It is most likely, but not definite, that she was broken up or sold as the steam trawlers began to make the sailing smacks uneconomical.
> 
> Best Regards
> Dave


Excellent, thanks. I noticed a lot of entries on the NE Lincs Archives site, showing the different skippers etc. Also found it on the mariners mailing list. Really chuffed as I've only been looking for 1 day. Just got to find a pic now if I can.

many thanks to you and Steve.


----------



## grahamtowa

Am doing a wee bit research into the Fife yard of Walter Reekie. In 1916 he built a pair of 45 footers for GY, Challenger GY846 and Chancellor GY959. Does anyone have any info on this pair?


----------



## davetodd

grahamtowa said:


> Am doing a wee bit research into the Fife yard of Walter Reekie. In 1916 he built a pair of 45 footers for GY, Challenger GY846 and Chancellor GY959. Does anyone have any info on this pair?


grahamtowa
Not much info. I'm afraid.
Chancellor GY959 is in the Grimsby Register from 1916 to 1947 but other info. gives her lost 1943.
Built 1916 at St.Monans. Owner S.Chapman Jnr.
Grimsby Central Library have one photograph of Chancellor GY959.
Challenger GY846 is in the Grimsby Register from 1916 to 1919. No more info.

I could not find either of these two in my Cox's list.
Regards
Dave


----------



## davetodd

Bit more on Challenger GY846 Built 1916 St.Monans 25 tons net Owner S.Chapman Jnr.
Dave


----------



## TSJ59

*S.T. Campina GY 214*

S.T. Campina GY 214 (O.N.133143)

I have details (Cox's) Built 1913 by Cochrane, Selby, for Hull owners and named _Emerald_ either H157 or H910 (or each in turn). *Can anyone tell me who the Hull owners were?*
I believed she was requistioned 1915 -1919 by Royal Navy, and again in Sept. 1939 As a A/P vessel. Purchased June 1940. 22nd Jul. 1940 Mined off Holyhead and lost with all hands (11).

Help with this would be appreciated.

Cheers, Terry


----------



## birgir

This is not positive identification, but Emerald was a name typical to the Kingston STFC, which named their ships after jewels. From 1925 onwards, they prefixed it with the name Kingston.

Birgir Thorisson


----------



## Kerbtrawler

*Acceptor GY 98 / GY 72*

I have the information supplied by the Cox lists on the Acceptor but wanted to know if anyone knew Who was the original Owner,the Yard number and who owned it when it went to Fleetwood
Finally what happened to it
Cheers


----------



## osta

Hi Built For Kingston S T Co Osta


----------



## gil mayes

Interested in ACCEPTOR (GY98). Can you give any further details?
Gil.


----------



## billblow

Hello Gil
ACCEPTOR was a Dandy rigged trawl built 1861 by Smith and Stephenson of Grimsby. For R. Roberts. ( wonder if that the Roberts of Roberts and Ruthven )
ON 29810.
Started life as GY 98 and changed to GY 72 in 1869.
Various other owners and then to Fleetwood in October 1888, last Grimsby owner F W Moody, could he be father of G E Moody I wonder.
Bill


----------



## TSJ59

birgir said:


> This is not positive identification, but Emerald was a name typical to the Kingston STFC, which named their ships after jewels. From 1925 onwards, they prefixed it with the name Kingston.
> Birgir Thorisson


Hi - Thanks for this. I've since found on the Hull Trawler site that _Emerald_ H.157 was a trawler built earlier (1891) by Mackie & Thomson Govan, for Gt Northern Steam Ship Fishing Co Ltd, which eliminates that port registration No. - but found another _Emerald_ H1102!

Cheers, Terry


----------



## gil mayes

Thanks for that Bill. At the moment I cannot trace her in Fleetwood, but in that period there was a lot of activity in the sailing trawlers at the port. I will check further.
Gil.
PS. What we need in FMHT is a copy of Cox Grimsby Sailing Trawlers & Drifters.


----------



## Kerbtrawler

Hi Gil 
I have the cox lists on digital (Scanned) if that helps.

Tonight I will check the Olsens from the late 1800's to see if I can get further Info on the Acceptor

cheers


----------



## Steve Farrow

Hi Terry,
I have just posted a photo of the EMERALD in the Gallery. She was built by Cochranes in 1913 for Kingstons and requisitioned in November 1914 as a mine-sweeper. In April 1919 she was bought by the Amaranth Fishing Company GY 214. sold in Feb 1920 to H. Bacon, again in March to Trawlers White Sea, Re-named Campina in March 1922 and sold again in Nov 1927 to the Crampin Steam Fishing Co Ltd. In October 1933 sold to G. Dixon (under Crampins) and in March 1937 sold to A. Smith. Finally she was sold to the Vinur St Fg Co Ltd. She was requisitioned by the Admiralty in September 1939 and converted into an Auxilliary Patrol Vessel. She was mined off Holyhead, North Wales on July 22nd 1940.

Steve


----------



## TSJ59

Hello Steve - Happy New Year.

Thanks for the post

Great photo which sorted the port registration query. Also for confirming Hull owners.

Thanks again.

Cheers, Terry


----------



## gil mayes

Hello Trevor. We have the Cox Steam Trawlers and liners of Grimsby, is it possible to get a disc copy of the sailing trawlers/drifters. I cannot remember if you have my address but contact via PM please if not. I have been through the Fleetwood records and cannot see anything with that name the only Grimsby registered smack comes up as ASHBY (99174) (GY359).
Gil.


----------



## grahamtowa

davetodd said:


> Bit more on Challenger GY846 Built 1916 St.Monans 25 tons net Owner S.Chapman Jnr.
> Dave


Thanks for your help, Dave. Does anyone know if these pair were motorised or sail only? My guess is that they would have early Kelvin petrol paraffin 26/30 in them, but it is only a guess. Reekie also built another forty footer for GY in 1915, Progress GY614, and it was fitted with one of the Kelvins. Premier II GY629 came from the yard in about 1920, again unsure if it was engined.....
2 bigger builds, 60 footers, in 1948, Airdrie GY565 and Arran Lad GY585. Were they seiners? Any help really appreciated, cheers, Graham


----------



## davetodd

graham,
Don't know if they were fitted with motors, sorry.
Here is some info. on the others:-
AIRDRIE GY565 ON 166674 Call MAXV 120HP Wood construct 40/17 tons Built Anstruther 1948 Owner David Flett Aberdeen
ARRAN LAD GY584? ON182620 Call???? 120HP Wood constuct 40/17 tons Built Anstruthe 1948 Owner P.Reid Clee. in 1960 has moved to BF136 Owner James N.Tait Fraserburgh.
PROGRESS GY614 on Grimsby register from 1915 to 1917. no more on this one.
PREMIER II GY629 (motor) 28 tons net Owner C.F.W.Bilton Hull on Grimsby register from 1919 to 1934.no more on this one.
Best Regards
Dave


----------



## Steve Farrow

Graham, 

The Airdrie and Aran Lad were both anchor seiners and were managed by Harry Franlin's company in GY.

Steve


----------



## grahamtowa

Many thanks, Dave and Steve. Really appreciated!


----------



## sunrisemac

davetodd said:


> Hello Ian,
> Here is some information that I have.
> 
> 1. Salacon a steam trawler built in 1905 at Beverley Yorkshire.
> Her Official Number ( O.N.) was 118948 and her Port Register Number was GY55.
> A vessel of 211 Gross Tons and 83 Net tons and in 1934 was owned by the Standard Steam Fishing Co. Ltd. of Grimsby.
> She was sunk by mine off the River Humber on 7 Sept. 1940
> 
> 2. Hondo a steam trawler built in 1919 at Beverley in Yorkshire for the Admiralty as a Castle class trawler and named Doninick Addison with an Admiralty Number 4296.
> Her O.N. was 139639 . 290 Gross tons 127 net tons.
> Sold in 1919 and renamed Tenedos with a P.R.No. CF4 ( CF=Cardiff)
> 1929 transferred to Milford Haven P.R.No. M24
> During WW2 served as a R.N.minesweeper named Gadfly pendant no. FY517
> 1948 returned to Milford Haven and transferred to Fleetwood P.R.No. FD277
> In 1952 she came to Grimsby and was renamed Hondo P.R.No. GY195
> Broken up in 1960.
> 
> Hope this helps
> Best Regards
> Dave


Hi Dave,

I have been talking to my Dad regarding my Grandad and he remembers going on a trip just after WW2 in a trawler named Frascati that Pop was skippering at the time, I was wondering if you might have heard of that one?

Regards Ian


----------



## Steve Farrow

Hi Ian,

Here is a photo of the Grimsby trawler FRASCATI

Regards

Steve


----------



## davetodd

Ian,
To accompany the photograph that Steve has posted, some information:-
Steam trawler FRASCATI GY315
Built by Cochranes of Selby in 1914 for Strand S.F.Co.Ltd
O.N.137006 220 grt 98 nt 70 NHP.
Served in WW1 from Nov. 1914 to 1919 as a minesweeper. Armed with a 12pdr gun.
Admiralty Number 49.
The 1934 Olsen's Almanac has the owner as Strand S.F.Co.Ltd.
Cox's list has her owners/managers as follows,
1933 H.Markham Cook.
1933 Aldred S.F.Co. Ltd.
1941 J.Bennett Ltd. (Wholesale)
1945 London owner
1947 Elkington estates Ltd.
1952 Scrapped.
If Bill Blow sees this, he may know the funnel markings.

Regards
Dave


----------



## billblow

*frascati funnel*

Dave / Ian
Looking at the dress of the crew I would say the photograph is taken while in the ownership of Elkington Estates Ltd. 
Theirs was a black funnel with a pale blue D on a white flag.
Elkington Estates Ltd was a subsidiary of Charles Dobson. The family still own and farm the Elkington Estates, a 2000 odd acre holding just north of Louth.
You'll know it Dave it starts opposite where the ice cream van stands at Cordeux Corner just before you get to Louth.
If by chance the photograph is in the 30's the funnel livery could look almost the same in b/w for the Strand Steam Fishing Co (H.Croft Baker) with black funnel with a white S on a pale blue flag. One of their styles had their blue flag on broad white band. As we can't see a clear D or S I'll go by the crew's dress to date it.
Bill


----------



## billblow

Dave
Another almost foolproof way I have found for dating pre or post war photo's is the derrick attached to the mast. It is most definatly a post war feature on these smaller vessels, forgot to mention that.
Bill


----------



## birgir

What kind of business was Dobson running?

I have noticed a company called Dobson´s ship repair, that seems on occasions, not just have been doing maintenance, but also running active trawlers. 
On other occasions, that company seems to have been a transitory owner of old trawlers.

On a totally different issue. Does anyone have a picture of the trawlers Ceresio (ex Jellicoe) or Kings Grey, preferably from their Grimsby days? Both were very long serving, and it is a bit odd that no pic has popped of either.

Birgir Thorisson


----------



## davetodd

billblow said:


> Dave
> Another almost foolproof way I have found for dating pre or post war photo's is the derrick attached to the mast. It is most definatly a post war feature on these smaller vessels, forgot to mention that.
> Bill


Thanks for that Bill.
Appreciated.
Dave(Thumb)


----------



## TSJ59

*S.T. Reverto GY 104*

Hello,

Steam Trawler _Reverto_ GY 104 (Port Reg. No. changed from GY 13, as 13 was considered to be unlucky)!

Looking back on this thread (Grimsby Fishing Vessels - 2007), I see that enquiries about this trawlers fate didn't produce any answers but here goes anyway.

18th Sept. 1916 (was this the day she sailed?) Vessel posted missing, lost with all hands whilst fishing in the North Sea. 

Loss is not recorded in British Vessels Lost at Sea 1914 -1918, and as far as I can see, none of the crew are commemorated. 

Just wonder if anyone has knowledge of evidence that may have emerged later to single out the loss of this ship as none war related from the other 35 fishing vessels lost in the second half of September 1916?

If the loss has been thoroughly considered, so be it. I just want to make sure it hasn't slipped out of the the system at some stage!

As always any info. on this would be appreciated.

Cheers, Terry


----------



## Steve Farrow

Terry,
I have just uploaded a photo of the REVERTO in the Gallery. Many trawlers did not return.......some hit mines, others were shelled by u-boats and the weather also took its toll. Unless other ships witnessed what happened then these losses will always remain a mystery!

Steve


----------



## sunrisemac

Hi Steve,

Re: Frascati

The photo is fantastic, apparently my dad did his demob leave on that ship, I can't wait to show him. You don't happen to know if I could get a hard copy of the photo as it would go nicely with the other couple of photos I have of my 'Pop' during his time at sea

Thanks so much for taking the time to look it up.

Ian


----------



## sunrisemac

Hi Dave,

Re: Frascati

the information you have given me is far more than I could have hoped for, after my Dad went for a couple of weeks fishing aboard Frascati it left such an impression that he named the house I grew up in after it.

You guys on this site obviously know your stuff.

Thanks again Ian


----------



## sunrisemac

Hi Bill

Thanks for the added information regarding Frascati, my Dad went on her shortly after the second world war, so it could have been during the time of the paint markings in the photo or when it was owned by the previous London owner,

Thanks for taking the time to reply, I am truly grateful to you guys on this site.

Ian


----------



## TSJ59

Thanks Steve - Another great photo.

18th Sept.1916 date could be crucial if it was the day that _Reverto_ sailed - Michael Lowery (GWF and U-boat.net) advises UC 26 laid mines north of the Outer Dowsing LV on Sept. 19th.

Cheers, Terry


----------



## gkh151

Hi Everyone,

I asked a question in a separate thread a few days ago with regard to a ship called Meggies as I am trying to get some info on her. Steve Farrow sent me a reply with some info and was kind enough to attach a photo.

I was wondering if any of you had any more information, for example when she was built and the name of the builders and also what happened to her.

I am trying to find out for a friend of mine who is doing some family research and he say's his Grandad was on her. His name was Solomen Broughton.

If any of you can come up with any more information for me it would be greatly appreciated.

Graham


----------



## mattarosa

*Meggies*

Graham
There is a reference in the Times of Jul 29, 1936 to Meggies as follows:

MEGGIES - Bridlington, July 28. Motor fishing vessel Meggies caught fire in Bridlington as engine was started to proceed to sea. Fire extinguished by fire extinguishers and hose from pier. Damage unknown but does not appear heavy.

The Guardian of Jan 12, 1934 has a mention:

The Bridlington lifeboat, Stanhope Smart, went out in search of four missing vessels during the gale. While the lifeboat was being launched Frank Broadbent, one of the crew, was swept overboard at the entrance to the harbour. 
He was able to grasp the lifeline and Richard Crawford grabbed his lifebelt and dragged him into the lifeboat.
The four boats missing were Excelsior, Protect M II, Victory and Meggies. They had left for the fishing grounds earlier in the day. 
A north-easterly gale was blowing and waves were sweeping over the pier when the lifeboat was launched.
She was seen an hour later escorting two of the missing boats home in huge seas. The lifeboat vanished at times, and then could be seen with her stern high in the air, her rudder out of the water, and her propeller racing, while her bows were under the waves.
She was swept by the waves as she went to windward of the fishing boats, pouring oil on the water. Victory and Meggies arrived in harbour first and the lifeboat returned on her search, bringing back Protect Me II and Excelsior at dusk.

Guardian, Jul 29, 1936
When a fire occurred on board the fishing vessel Meggies, moored off South Pier end among other craft at Bridlington, yesterday, an engineer, George Taylor, was trapped in the engine room but managed to escape uninjured.

Guardian, Nov 18, 1936
[In another story about the Bridlington lifeboat putting out in a gale and rough seas, there is the following mention]

...Mr Ralph Sanderson took the motor-boat Meggies out, but was driven back by the heavy seas.

None of this answers your questions about builder and fate, but hope it is of interest anyway.

Hilary


----------



## gkh151

Thanks for that Hilary.
That will be of great interest to my friend, I will pass it on to him.

In the meantime if anyone else can help with any of my other queries it would be appreciated.

Graham


----------



## billblow

Graham
The information you require for the Meggies will almost certainly be available in the BOT Ships Registers at the N.E.Lincs Archives. Unfortunately the Archives are closed to visitors due to staffing problems until sometime in February.
Bill


----------



## Steve Farrow

Graham,

An elderly friend of mine with a memory superior to an elephant, recalls that the MEGGIES was built at Anstruther by a Mr. Atkin in 1932. She worked mainly from Bridlington pre-war and from GY post war. Her dimensions were 50.5' x 15.6' x 6.4'. She ended her days catching dogfish based out of Lowestoft until she was scuttled off that port about 1980.
This is from an ex-fisherman called Malcolm Stockdale (Dave's friend also!) who really does know his fishing history and I think it was Charles Darwin who said he was "A millionaire in odds and facts." So is Malcolm!

Steve


----------



## davetodd

Steve
A good description of Meggies and an even better description of the Encyclopedia Grimbarian also known as Mally!!!
Regards
Dave


----------



## trotterdotpom

Steve Farrow: ".....She ended her days catching dogfish based out of Lowestoft until she was scuttled off that port about 1980....."

Steve, you and all the fellows on this thread are a mine of information, well done to all. Just wondering if the "dogfish" you mention was a small shark sold as "rock salmon" in the London area? Cheap as chips and the best thing in the fishshop. Why didn't we get it up north?

John T.


----------



## Steve Farrow

Yes John.....the very same dogfish! Until recently I don't think there was a quota on the amount you could catch, but I think that has changed now. Perhaps someone can update us on this now?

Steve


----------



## gkh151

Hi Guy's,

Many thanks to you all for taking the time to find this info for me it's great. I will let my friend see it all he will be made up.

Incidentally the name I said was Solomen Broughton thats inncorect it should be Samuel. I will put that down to my age and a rubbish memory.

Once again many thanks.

Graham


----------



## dickjburton

Fame ON 109566-LT754/YH854/GY352 


FAME GY352
Wooden, 2 masted, Sailing Drifter, Elliptical stern,(Carvel built, Ketch)
Built : H.Reynolds, Lowestoft. 1898.
Dimensions : 62.0 x 17.15 x 8.0ft
Tonnage : 38.79 n.t. 38.79 g.t. 38.56 udk.
O.N.109566. Became YH 854 GY
Built for John Breach (16) mg owner 13.7.98.

J.Harrington (32) dated 21.7.1898.
W.Allerton. (16)

Wm Burrell. (64) 19.8.1905. mg owner 18.8.05

Emma Bishop.(Haverford West) 1912 – 18

W.Greaves.(Lowestoft) 1918 – 19

R.C.Maynard.(Cleethorpes)

1905. Sold to Wm Burrell and re-registered YH 854. A 8 h.p (40 i.h.p.) Compound
engine was installed by the owner. Also installed was an Elliot & Garrood
boiler and a Burrell capstan. 17 n.t. as steamer.
1907. Engine removed.
1920. Reduced to a hulk.

25/1898 Lowestoft.

Registry closed 19.8.1905. Vessel transferred to Yarmouth.
Certificate delivered up and cancelled. Advice received from owner. 

Does anyone have any imfomation/photographs of the Fame as GY352


----------



## davetodd

birgir said:


> What kind of business was Dobson running?
> 
> I have noticed a company called Dobson´s ship repair, that seems on occasions, not just have been doing maintenance, but also running active trawlers.
> On other occasions, that company seems to have been a transitory owner of old trawlers.
> 
> On a totally different issue. Does anyone have a picture of the trawlers Ceresio (ex Jellicoe) or Kings Grey, preferably from their Grimsby days? Both were very long serving, and it is a bit odd that no pic has popped of either.
> 
> Birgir Thorisson


Birgir
I carried out some limited research today at Grimsby Library regarding Dobson.
From a non-continous collection of local Directories the following:-
1911 Nothing found
1923 Dobson Steam Fishing Co.Ltd. Fish Dock Road Grimsby.
1923 Dobson Trading Syndicate. Fish Dock Road Grimsby.
1935 Dobson Charles. Steam Fishing vessel owner and fish merchant, 
Robinson Lane Fish Dock Grimsby.
1935 Dobson Ship Repair Co.Ltd. Robinson Lane Fish Dock Grimsby.
1958 Dobson Charles.Ltd. Fishing vessel owners Fish Dock Road Grimsby.
1960 " " " " " " " " "
1960 Dobson Ship Repair Co.Ltd. Fish Dock Road Grimsby.
Both of the entries for 1960 appear in the Directories for 1962,1965 and 1967.
None found in 1970.1971 or 1972.

There would seem to me to be more than one Dobson.
Only Charles Dobson has his first name mentioned.
The entries for 1935 at Robinson Lane coincide with the opening of the "new" Fish Dock No.3 in 1934.

I don't remember the Dobson vessels as such, but do recall a fisherman's supply store on the North Wall of Fish Dock No.3 from about 1946. It was named "Red House"! Still in business in the 1980's I think.
The store would provide trawler crews with mainly work gear and other items 
on credit.
The amount owed would be deducted from the man's "settling" by the trawler owner at the end of each voyage. Clearly, trawler owners had some agreement with Dobson's.
Also on the Fish Dock ( old part ) was "Dobbies" canteen which sold food and drink to all comers. I believe this was on a strictly cash basis. Although I am not sure if this was connected to Dobson Sip Repair Co.

Dobson's may have been active before 1923, but unfortunately I could not discover anything in the limited time I had.
They may also have operated under more than one name.
A commobn practice as I'm sure you know.

The title "Dobson Trading Syndicate" may indicate that there were many "fingers in many pies" ( A British way of saying spreading your risk and increasing your return.)

Best Regards
Dave


----------



## gil mayes

Dave
Can you confirm that it was Dobson Ship Repair Co Ltd 1935-WW2? Admiralty records (Folio MT65) show the owner of KENNYMORE (136000)(GY38) requisitioned 27.11.1939 (Hire rate £60.0.0d/per month) as Dobson Ship Repairing Co Ltd.
Gil.


----------



## billblow

Gil
The Lloyds registers on plimsollshipdata.org shows Kennymore GY 38 ON 136000 with the Dobson Ship Repairing Co Ltd. Charles Dobson manager.
Elkington Estates were one of my growers with Unilever and when I went the first time to sign them up his grandson also Charles Dobson said his grandfather drove out to Elkington Estates rode around and said it looked a lot for the money and bought there and then
Bill


----------



## BillH

gil mayes said:


> Dave
> Can you confirm that it was Dobson Ship Repair Co Ltd 1935-WW2? Admiralty records (Folio MT65) show the owner of KENNYMORE (136000)(GY38) requisitioned 27.11.1939 (Hire rate £60.0.0d/per month) as Dobson Ship Repairing Co Ltd.
> Gil.


If any help LLoyd's Register Shipowners 1940-41 gives

Dobson, Charles Robinson Lane Fish Docks, Grimsby (10 vessels listed) with two sub-titles being Dobson Ship Repairing Co. Ltd (8 vessels listed) and Dobson Steam Fishing Co.Ltd (1 vessel).


----------



## davetodd

gil mayes said:


> Dave
> Can you confirm that it was Dobson Ship Repair Co Ltd 1935-WW2? Admiralty records (Folio MT65) show the owner of KENNYMORE (136000)(GY38) requisitioned 27.11.1939 (Hire rate £60.0.0d/per month) as Dobson Ship Repairing Co Ltd.
> Gil.


Gil,
Looks like the two bills have answered your query.
As you probably know, N.E.Lincs. archives are currently closed.
When they re-open I can check the Kennymore (WW1 1373 WW2 FY857 mined,sunk Thames estuary 1940) after I have tried to solve the anomoly of the Grimsby Town i.e. GY81 when she stranded!
Regards
Dave


----------



## Steve Farrow

Dave,

I have a photo of the Grimsby Town when she was lost at Iceland in April 1946 and her port registration is clearly visable as GY 81, yet as I was given to understand, ishe was registered as GY 136 that year. 

Steve


----------



## davetodd

Steve Farrow said:


> Dave,
> 
> I have a photo of the Grimsby Town when she was lost at Iceland in April 1946 and her port registration is clearly visable as GY 81, yet as I was given to understand, ishe was registered as GY 136 that year.
> 
> Steve


Hello Steve
Thanks for that.
I have seen this one before and believe that GY136 was issued quite a few months before the stranding.
I'm trying to verify the date when GY136 was issued or when the owners were notified of this.
Question has been asked "Was Grimsby Town fishing ILLEGALY" by using GY81?
Dave


----------



## gil mayes

I believe it was Dobson Ship Repairing Co Ltd, but as Dave mentions the only sure way is to check with NE Lincs and Customs House Registers.
GRIMSBY TOWN(GY81). I am looking at three photographs of her stranding and the the PLN is clear. Again it needs the Customs House Register to confirm that (GY81) was allowed even though she might well have been issued with (GY136). Unfortunately the photographs are not mine to reproduce.
Gil.


----------



## Peter Webb

GY598 Resono, mined 26th Dec 1915, anybody any info on her, my GGrandfather was Engineer, Robert Cook, 44 Clerke St


----------



## Peter Webb

Sorry can't type, should have been GY508


----------



## Kerbtrawler

The Resono was built for G F Sleight by Cook Welton & Gemmel Beverley
Details 
Yard No 194
Launched 12/03/1910
Registered 23/04/1910
230 GT 105 NT
117.3 x 22 x 11.7
Q 59' F 18'
Engines 63 hp giving top speed of 10 knots by C D Holmes
Official Number 127856
She was Requistioned 01/1915 as a minesweeper FY 1042
26/12/1915 she was sunk by a mine near Light vessel Thames Estuary
the mine was laid by UC5 on 17/12/1915

cheers


----------



## Kerbtrawler

Cox has the Grimsby Town as holding the Reg 136 from 01/1946 until 05/1947

Do we know where this information might have come from?


----------



## peter drake

Hi Clem

Not sure if these are the same ships but

Kingston Peridot H55 transfered to Grimsby 1946 as Storkham GY89 scrapped 1954
Stella Rigel H14 Transfered to Grimsby 1955 as Cradock GY11 scrapped 1960

Best of luck
Pete


----------



## Peter Webb

Thanks for that, learnt more in the last month, about GGrandfather, than was told, I though he had died in the Humber, as I could not find a death cert, in Records. But from which class was the Resono, are there any pics of Her or her sister ships.

From a former mech fitter, who's last marine engines, i stripped where the on the Autoroute. (Holed piston)


----------



## billblow

Peter
Sister ships to the Resono
Recordo GY 507
Renco GY 512
Repro GY 510
I have no pics of these
Bill


----------



## Kerbtrawler

I will have a look tonight to see what I have for either the Resono or her sister ships

cheers


----------



## Steve Farrow

This the only photo I have of the Renco. She had several sister-ships, including the REPORTO, REVELLO, RIVIGO, REPERIO, and RIDIO. If you look in the Gallery, some of these may be there.

Steve


----------



## Kerbtrawler

The photo's I have are the following 
RENZO GY 826
REPORTO GY 380
RODOSTO GY 839
ROLLO GY 647
RONSO GY 605
ROSANENO GY 1233
RECTO GY 16
RESTRIVO GY 265
REHEARO GY 829
RETURNO GY 264
REGARDO GY 623
RIZZIO GY 313
REVELLO GY 373
RIGHTO GY 1267
RIGELETTO GY 185
RALCO GY 663
ROXANO GY 320
RUBATO GY 84
RISKATO GY 914
REMAGIO GY 843
RENCO GY 512
RIANO GY 181
RECEPTO GY 254
REPERIO GY 298
REMEXO GY 721
ROTO GY 22
RETAKO GY 253
RETRUDO GY 952
REPALLO GY 80

There are a lot of other vessels in the fleet but if any of the above are useful please PM me and I will send you a copy

cheers


----------



## billblow

Steve
Whilst I would guess the Reporto Revello Revigo Reperio and Rideo would look identical to the Resono only Resono Recordo Renco and Repro have identical statistics albiet only marginally different to the rest. I would suggest it would be a very clever man who could tell the difference and so all could be called sisters.
Bill


----------



## Peter Webb

Thanks, Krebtrawler, & billblow, I think poss Renco maybe the best match, with a GY number 512 to Resono's number 508, Is Renco a good pic?

Pete


----------



## Peter Webb

Another enquity my wife's ggranddad sailed on the following; little Samuel, Freedom, Kitty Meadows, Excel, Spirit of the Deep, Kitty Read, Fertile, Ellen, Oceana, Souvenir, Doctor Lees, Amy, Henry Freeman, Robin Hood, Express, Alfred Trower & True Love, how many different owner are there here?
got the names from fishing registers.

pete


----------



## billblow

Pete
The vessels you mention are I think all Grimsby sailing vessels engaged in the trawling trade and as such can be searched on the online site for the North East Lincolnshire Archives web site.
It will tell you owner, skipper and skippers ticket no.
The link is on this forum somewhere I reckon posted by Dave Todd
Bill


----------



## davetodd

Address for Archives is:-
www.nelincs.gov.uk/Leisure/Archives

Click on "Online Archives Catalogue" top right, then type in the "Any Text" box your search name.
Best Regards
Dave
P.S. Spoke to the assistant archivist today, the N.E.Lincs archives will re-open next Monday normal times.


----------



## Kerbtrawler

Pete,
Little Samuel GY 687 she was a Dandy Trawl
Originally owned by A Forester
Official Number 79072
Built 01/1878
77 T
04/1888 sold to the Great Grimsby Ice Co
03/1896 She went to Great Yarmouth


----------



## Kerbtrawler

Freedom GY 511 Dandy Trawl again
Built 07/1875
Original Owner W Ashford
Official Number 73208
09/1889 She was sold to The Great Grimsby Ice Co

03/1896 She went to Great Yarmouth


----------



## Kerbtrawler

Kitty Meadows was a Ketch Trawl
Built 11/1887 GY 133
Official Number 94072
10/1898 Sold to Dutchmen

If you want the details on the rest of the boats let me know

cheers


----------



## davlow4

*Just a question*



Clem said:


> Hi everyone, here is a list of vessels I'm currently researching. So if anyone reading this has any information of any kind relating to these vessels (including pics), please let me know by posting here or by PM.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Clem
> 
> GY6	Ross Kelly
> GY19	Stockham
> GY22	Northern Eagle
> GY65	Lancer
> GY68	Tagalie
> GY110	Northern Princess
> GY121	Northern Prince
> GY142	Northern Sea
> GY148	Spurs
> GY190	Northern Spray
> GY204	Northern Gem
> GY245	Euryalus
> GY249	British
> GY263	Cradock
> GY280	Mildenhall
> GY289	Northern Dawn
> GY333	Boston Valetta
> GY354	Peken
> GY389	Taipo
> GY395	Lifeguard
> GY427	Northern Sky
> GY440	Northern Sun
> GY453	Kyoto
> GY457	Clixby
> GY467 Digby
> GY484	Port Vale
> GY507	Recordo
> GY511	Varanis
> GY596	Boston Coronet
> GY600	Osako
> GY625	Recono
> GY661	Tokio
> GY664	Lemberg
> GY679	Garola
> GY689	Okino
> GY810	Strephon
> GY1037	War Duke
> GY1306	Xylopia
> GY1367	Kirmington
> GY	Katie Louise
> GY	Efficient


Sorry, but I am unable to help you with your research as most of the vessels are Northerns, I sailed with Ross. Which brings me to my question:- in the 'K' class I can only remember Kandahar, Kipling, and Khartoum. When was the Kelly added to the fleet, or was it already there and age is making my memory play tricks on me? And could you please let me know if you have any idea what happened to the Ross Daring and Ross Darling? Many Thanks, David


----------



## mickey D

Hello My name is mickey D and I am doing the family tree in the lowestoft
area and my g-g-Uncle Mr C T Day had about 33 drifters & Trawlers I have
the names & numbers if any one can help please. With regards to the 
Meggies Lt406 she was owen by my G-Uncle Mr W A Day from 1963
but I do-not know when he sold her but I can find out 
I hope this is of interest to some one p-s I am new to this so I do-not
know the right way of doing things dut I will learn I hope 
Regards Mickey D


----------



## Kerbtrawler

davlow4 said:


> Sorry, but I am unable to help you with your research as most of the vessels are Northerns, I sailed with Ross. Which brings me to my question:- in the 'K' class I can only remember Kandahar, Kipling, and Khartoum. When was the Kelly added to the fleet, or was it already there and age is making my memory play tricks on me? And could you please let me know if you have any idea what happened to the Ross Daring and Ross Darling? Many Thanks, David


Hi
the Kelly went to Ross's 01/1959 according to the Cox Lists
the other K class where
Kashmir, Kelvin, Kestrel and Kittiwake

Cheers


----------



## Steve Farrow

The 'K' Class consisted of two diesel powered trawlers, KHARTOUM and KANDAHAR, plus four steam powered vessels that were convertes to diesels in 1967. These were the KELLY, KASHMIR, KIPLING and KELVIN. A very similad ship to these was the JOSEPH KNIBB which became the KENILWORTH. All were given the ROSS prefix in 1962.
The ROSS KESTREL AND ROSS KITTIWAKE were in fact much smaller Bird Class trawlers.

Regards

Steve


----------



## Kerbtrawler

Well spotted Steve

You passed the test....

I tend to come out with silly mistakes...


----------



## Kerbtrawler

gil mayes said:


> I believe it was Dobson Ship Repairing Co Ltd, but as Dave mentions the only sure way is to check with NE Lincs and Customs House Registers.
> GRIMSBY TOWN(GY81). I am looking at three photographs of her stranding and the the PLN is clear. Again it needs the Customs House Register to confirm that (GY81) was allowed even though she might well have been issued with (GY136). Unfortunately the photographs are not mine to reproduce.
> Gil.


Hi Gil,
I was looking through some old copies of the Evening Telegraph Bygone series and came across an article in the 1996 copy that shows 3 photos of the Grimsby Town The article mentions that the Grimsby Town GY 81 Changed the Registry to GY 136 after under going her refit having being Requisitioned by the Navy 01/1940 and returned 01/1946 before being returned to Grimsby.

I can Scan the Copy and send it on if you wish

Let me know

cheers


----------



## gil mayes

Interesting. Most grateful for that if you scan it for me.
Gil.


----------



## comet

hello do you have any info on the fiona thomsen gy204 danish anchor seiner i have got her on west coast thanks mark


----------



## Julia Simmons

storybooks said:


> Well, I’m amazed.
> This is the only other place in the world that I have found mention of the “Ross Keletchekis”
> I actually sailed her out to the Persian Gulf in Jan/Feb 1967 and left her in Cape Town in May of 1968.
> She was indeed the “Tell” and already well past her sail by date even when acquired by Ross Group. I believe that she was previously used to transport wine around the Mediterranean – hence the need for her “ice breaker” bow!
> She was converted in Grimsby into a freezer factory/fridge storage/supply ship and when we arrived in the Gulf (after a few delaying adventures in Algeria, Malta and Suez), we were joined by a fleet of fifteen brand new Mexican Gulf type boom trawlers all named after Iranian girls and a number. Miriam 1, Gadam 3 etc.
> The whole enterprise, “Ross Persian Seafoods Corporation” was a joint venture between Ross Group, Mr Keletchekis (a Greek tycoon) and, I think, the Shah of Iran! The name was, of course, always shortened to “Ross K” which infuriated Mr Keletchekis.
> The fishing boats were mostly skippered by Panamanians with a few Greeks thrown in and the labour was supplied locally.
> The fleet captain was a larger that life Texan “Eddie” Edmunds and some of the Panamanian’s names were amazing, “Edwin Winslow MacTaggart “ springs to mind!
> The boats caught the prawns, they were headed and tailed alongside and then we sucked them up, mechanically graded them and then froze them into five pound blocks which were boxed with the Ross logo.
> When we had sufficient on board, we would go alongside either an American or Japanese reefer and transship at sea. The prawns were not caught for the UK market. In those days, we neither ate them nor could we afford them.
> If I remember rightly, the block freezers were not all that reliable and we actually sailed from Grimsby with engineers on board trying to get then working before we arrived on station. I don’t remember that they were very successful (a difficult task out at sea!) so much so that after a year in the Gulf, we steamed all the way to Cape Town for a complete refit.
> I didn’t know what had become of her after that as I left from there and didn’t revert to my old job in Ross Group but I am amazed that she lasted until 1981.
> I have some photos of her in the Gulf if anyone is interested.


How interesting. I was Mr. Keletchekis freind from 1971 to 1975. Please read my profile to see more. I would love to hear more. Constantine Keletchekis is a man dear to my heart and I often wonder if he still lives. I have tried several times to find him. If you know anything, please let me know. [email protected]. I am 62 now. It seems like yesterday that i met Constantine in Tehran. That was a different time era. He was a great man, a great leader and a wonderful friend. Julia in Port Orford. Oregon


----------



## BROWN

I worked as a dragger in one of the fish factories on the north wall Pandalus before getting a start as a scaffolder,my gaffer was a barrow boy on the pontoon in his early youth and he told me a yarn that if you required assistance pushing a barrow up slope you would shout out "Hi Bob" anybody else heard of this?


----------



## Per Clausen

*Gy 617, Binks*

Hallo everybody.

Can somebody help me with any kinds of information about GY 617, Binks and the skipper Harry Clausen?

The ship was lounced 1960 at Bukie. 

I would also like to ask if anybody knows a man called Margon Hansen from Grimsby.

Thanks


----------



## grahamrichard

*port vale*

i spent a great deal of time in the port vale and many other trawlers sailing out of gy born and bread from a long fishing family last sailed in the roo revenge graham


----------



## Kerbtrawler

*Northern Boats*

Hi Everyone,
Looking for some help in tracking down photo's of the following vessels to go on the web site

Northern Chief GY 455
Northern Duke GY 442
Northern Reward GY 431
Northern Spray GY 190

Any idea's gratfully recieved

cheers


----------



## Kerbtrawler

*Ross Cat and Bird Class*

Hi 
Just to let everyone know I have started to upload the photo's of the Cat and Bird class Ross Boats

I am a couple short of the full set but I hope to have these available shortly

Cheers
(Thumb)


----------



## michael john debnam

*ex grimsby radio operator*

hi
i have just joined the forum and would like to get in touch

regards mike debnam


----------



## Steve Farrow

Hi Mike,

Which trawlers did you sail on from GY?

Regards

Steve


----------



## michael john debnam

Steve Farrow said:


> Hi Mike,
> 
> Which trawlers did you sail on from GY?
> 
> Regards
> 
> 
> Steve


hi steve we have been in touch before and has taken me a long time to get onto this web sight i sailed in the pataudi,barnett,wellard,yardleyalso i was loaned by crampins to the boston weelsby and the northern reward and the ross hunterbefore going to rejoin the trueman and the padgett, i will meet you sometime in the cons club i promiss regards
mike deb


----------



## Kerbtrawler

*S.T. Chiminix GY 717*

I am after some help please

I have in the Cox lists the Chamonix GY 717 official number 140801
is this a spelling error and should it be the ST Chiminix both were lost 1921


can anyone help

cheers


----------



## davetodd

Kerbtrawler
Don't know if this will help.
From a list of vessels registered in Grimsby ( from n.e.lincs.archives )
the following vessels were issued with GY717
FAIRY 1878-1898 ON 79097
VENUS 1912 2nd Class
CHAMONIX 1919-1921 ON 140801
HOFFMAN 1922 ON 140829
CONISBRO CASTLE 1922-1952 ex HOFFMAN

Chiminix not listed.

Regards
Dave


----------



## Kerbtrawler

Thanks for that 
It looks like it is a spelling error

Thanks for the help


----------



## mattarosa

*Gy25*

Good morning everyone

Hope it is fine and sunny where you are, as it is where I am.

Could anyone clarify for me whether it is CATOOMA or GATOOMA (GY25) as I have seen both and I am not sure which one is correct.

Thank you!

Hilary


----------



## mattarosa

*Hargood*

Another query, please, if I may.

Is Hargood GY7 or GY8? I have a note of both numbers and do now know which is correct.

Many thanks.
Hilary


----------



## Steve Farrow

mattarosa said:


> Good morning everyone
> 
> Hope it is fine and sunny where you are, as it is where I am.
> 
> Could anyone clarify for me whether it is CATOOMA or GATOOMA (GY25) as I have seen both and I am not sure which one is correct.
> 
> Thank you!
> 
> Hilary


Hi Hilary,

Sunshine and showers here in Cleethorpes.....cooler on the coast! (As always)

The name was GATOOMA and GY 7 was the HARGOOD (ex-Prince Philip of Hull)
Sept 1955-Aug 1958. Became STELLA RIGEL and lost in 1962.

GY 8 was HARGOOD ex- SOLLUM Hull, Feb 1949-June 1955, became Red Sabre.

Regards

Steve


----------



## Per Clausen

Good afternoon everyone!

Has there ever been a Grimsby fishing vessel with the name "Brigs"? I think the vessel was fishing in the beginning of the 50's but don't know its number etc.

Hope to get som help.

Regards Per


----------



## davetodd

Hello Per
Cannot find "BRIGS" as a Grimsby Fishing Vessel but there was one named "BRIGG"
Her PRN was GY475.
Built at Barton-on-Humber in 1947.
Wood construction, 23 tons and owned by Aston Fishing Company of Grimsby.
Regards
Dave


----------



## Steve Farrow

Per Clausen said:


> Good afternoon everyone!
> 
> Has there ever been a Grimsby fishing vessel with the name "Brigs"? I think the vessel was fishing in the beginning of the 50's but don't know its number etc.
> 
> Hope to get som help.
> 
> Regards Per


Hi Per

You maybe thinking about the BINKS, a seine net vessel owned by the Causen Fishing Co Ltd. & Loumand Fishing Co Ltd. She was GY 617 and built in Peterhead 1960.

Steve


----------



## Per Clausen

Hallo Steve

Thanks for the reply.

It is not the Binks GY 617, which I know very well.

I have an old photo of a fishing vessel probably from Grimsby. I can see the name "Brigs" on the lifering. But I can not find the name and nymber in any of the list's of the old Grimsby Vessels which are avalible on the internet.

My uncle was fishing from Grimsby and it is one of his old photos. 

/Per


----------



## Per Clausen

Thanks Dave

Did not see your reply. 

I think you are right. The last "G" that is on the lifering on my picture looks like an "S" because the gear that holds the lifering covers most of the last letter in the name.

So you are right. It must be the Brigg, GY475.

Thank you very much.

/Per


----------



## davetodd

davetodd said:


> Hello Per
> Cannot find "BRIGS" as a Grimsby Fishing Vessel but there was one named "BRIGG"
> Her PRN was GY475.
> Built at Barton-on-Humber in 1947.
> Wood construction, 23 tons and owned by Aston Fishing Company of Grimsby.
> Regards
> Dave


The attachment is from the 1961 Olsen's Almanac.
Regards
Dave


----------



## mattarosa

Steve Farrow said:


> Hi Hilary,
> 
> Sunshine and showers here in Cleethorpes.....cooler on the coast! (As always)
> 
> The name was GATOOMA and GY 7 was the HARGOOD (ex-Prince Philip of Hull)
> Sept 1955-Aug 1958. Became STELLA RIGEL and lost in 1962.
> 
> GY 8 was HARGOOD ex- SOLLUM Hull, Feb 1949-June 1955, became Red Sabre.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Steve



Very helpful, Steve, thank you.


----------



## mattarosa

*Acuba*

I found this small item in the Times of 29 Apr 1913

LOSS OF A GERMAN STEAMER
The Grimsby trawler Acuba brought into Grimsby on Sunday night the captain and five of the crew of the German steamer KATE. The KATE was bound for Bosum, near Hamburg, when she sprang a leak in the North Sea on Saturday. Her distress was noticed by the ACUBA,which took her in tow, but she was gradually sinking, and the captain and crew boarded the trawler in their own boat. The KATE foundered shortly afterwards. She was a vessel of 448 tons, built at Grabow in 1899, and owned at Kiel.

I don't have the Acuba on my list of Grimsby trawlers. Does anyone know anything about her, including the registration number?

Hilary


----------



## davetodd

mattarosa said:


> I found this small item in the Times of 29 Apr 1913
> 
> LOSS OF A GERMAN STEAMER
> The Grimsby trawler Acuba brought into Grimsby on Sunday night the captain and five of the crew of the German steamer KATE. The KATE was bound for Bosum, near Hamburg, when she sprang a leak in the North Sea on Saturday. Her distress was noticed by the ACUBA,which took her in tow, but she was gradually sinking, and the captain and crew boarded the trawler in their own boat. The KATE foundered shortly afterwards. She was a vessel of 448 tons, built at Grabow in 1899, and owned at Kiel.
> 
> I don't have the Acuba on my list of Grimsby trawlers. Does anyone know anything about her, including the registration number?
> 
> Hilary


Hilary
Might be this one:-
AUCUBA GY117 ON 123561 Built 1906 at Beverley 211/87 tons
Regards
Dave


----------



## trotterdotpom

The above story brought to mind the expression "hovel" - meaning a salvage job or wreck. I never heard the word used in that context except on trawlers. I just looked it up and could not find "hovel" but I did find "hoveler" meaning "n. 1. One who assists in saving life and property from a wreck; a coast boatman" in Webster's Dictionary of 1913 (according to "The Free Dictionary"). There is no information about the word's origin. Anybody got any idea? Has anyone heard it used anywhere except in the fishing industry?

John T.


----------



## Steve Farrow

Hilary,

The AUCUBA was run down by the Italian steamer Maria BIBOLINI while trawling off Robin Hoods Bay, on 5/9/1951. All ten crew were rescued. The skipper of the AUCUBA, Tom Darwood told me that he went into his cabin to retrieve his gold watch, but the water was coming up to his waist so he gave up and went on deck to be rescued!
The bell was later brought to the surface by members of the Scarborough Sub Aqua Club.

Steve


----------



## billblow

Aucuba photograph shows the funnel livery of the Filey United Steam Fishing Co. Ltd. manager R.F.Cammish. Red funnel, broad white band, black smoke cap.
Bill


----------



## mattarosa

davetodd said:


> Hilary
> Might be this one:-
> AUCUBA GY117 ON 123561 Built 1906 at Beverley 211/87 tons
> Regards
> Dave


Thank you, Dave. I think that is quite likely.

Hilary


----------



## mattarosa

Steve Farrow said:


> Hilary,
> 
> The AUCUBA was run down by the Italian steamer Maria BIBOLINI while trawling off Robin Hoods Bay, on 5/9/1951. All ten crew were rescued. The skipper of the AUCUBA, Tom Darwood told me that he went into his cabin to retrieve his gold watch, but the water was coming up to his waist so he gave up and went on deck to be rescued!
> The bell was later brought to the surface by members of the Scarborough Sub Aqua Club.
> 
> Steve


... but not the gold watch, I take it?

Thanks, Steve, very interesting information.


----------



## mattarosa

billblow said:


> Aucuba photograph shows the funnel livery of the Filey United Steam Fishing Co. Ltd. manager R.F.Cammish. Red funnel, broad white band, black smoke cap.
> Bill


Keep up the good work, Bill, your funnel identifications are always very useful.
Hilary


----------



## trucker

*quotas*

just watched on the local news all whitby trawlers are up for sale.because of the whiting quota.whitby trawlermen aren,t allowed to land the whiting because they have used up their quota.but the fish wholesaler,s need the whiting.so they are driving down to grimbsy to buy the whiting landed by icelandic trawlers.crazy world.(Cloud)


----------



## grahamtowa

Do the names Libra and Corona mean anything to you GY lads? Built 1912 at Dundee,, Libra was for the Grimsby North Sea Fishing Co, Corona may have been for the same firm, unsure. Looking for reg nos and any other info. Thanks, Graham


----------



## davetodd

Graham
LIBRA
GY687 ON132134 built 1912 Dundee 211/82 tons Owners Trawlers White Sea Grimsby.
WW1 Admiralty No. 29
WW2 Pennant No. FY593
1956 Broken up

CORONA
Two entries 
First Corona ON 109806 on Grimsby register from 1898 to 1908
Second Corona ON 132137 GY684 built 1912 212tons 
WW1 Admiralty No. 1137 Mined 23/6/1916 near Ramsgate.
Regards
Dave


----------



## grahamtowa

Thanks, Dave. It was the 2nd Corona.


----------



## Kerbtrawler

*Steam Trawler GALL*

Can anyone help me 
The trawler GALL lost 7 of her crew 30/03/1926

I can't seem to find any information concerning the ship or the loss of the crew

Is it a typo on the name?

cheers


----------



## mattarosa

The following, from the Manchester Guardian of 31 March 1926, throws some light, I hope.

TRAWLER WRECKED
Seven Men Lost Out of Crew of Nine
Seven men lost their lives owing to the overturning of a small boat belonging to the Fleetwood trawler Gaul, which was wrecked yesterday on the north side of Tiree, in the Inner Hebrides, off the coast of Argyllshire. Two of the crew of nine - a trimmer named Edward Thomson, and a deckhand named George Pratt - managed to swim to the shore after a struggle that greatly exhausted them.
The body of the cook, Amos Beard, has been washed ashore. The bodies of the other men could be seen at times, but owing to the roughness of the sea no rescue could be effected.
The two survivors are at present too exhausted to give an account of what happened.
Our Fleetwood correspondent says the Gaul was returning to Fleetwood after being on charter for Icelandic fishing and was due to arrive in Fleetwood last night.
The Gaul is one of Fleetwood's largest fishing steamers and belongs the the New Docks Steam Fishing Company, to whom it was being returned on completion of a charter with Grimsby managers.
None of the crew belongs to Fleetwood.
All the crew were Grimsby men. Apart from Thompson and Platt there were the skipper (Karl Johnson), the mater (W Robinson), the third hand (R Dean), a deckhand (T Moon), the chief engineer ( A Keightley), the second engineer (R Kershaw), and the cook (Beard).


Note that the spelling of the names of the two survivors is inconsistent in both cases (Thomson/Thompson and Pratt/Platt) but I have copied the article as it appeared in the newspaper.

Hope this is of help.
Hilary


----------



## davetodd

A little bit more to add to Hilary's excellent information.
Gaul H761 built for Imperial Steam Fishing Co. of Hull, in 1905 at Beverley.
ON 121030 270Gt 74Nt
Regards
Dave


----------



## Kerbtrawler

Thanks to both of you for this information

The information I had came from the Fishermans Mission and it lists the same crew names 

Thanks again for your help


----------



## Steve Farrow

There's a decent photo of her in the Gallery.

Regards

Steve


----------



## ian potterton

*Brigg*



Per Clausen said:


> Good afternoon everyone!
> 
> Has there ever been a Grimsby fishing vessel with the name "Brigs"? I think the vessel was fishing in the beginning of the 50's but don't know its number etc.
> 
> Hope to get som help.
> 
> Regards Per


Brigg was one of 5 vessels built at Barton in the late 1940s,all anchor seiners built to the Danish wooden design,3 over 60ft.were
'Fourseas'
'Denston'
'De Aston'
2 under 60ft.were 'Brigg' and'Scanboy'
'Denston' was built with a 2 cyl.Danish Hundested motor and was owened by Rikard Johanesen
'Fourseas' was Skippered for many years by a Dane Carlo Andersen
All exept 'Brigg were still fishing untill late 1980s,
'Scanboy' untill 1990s from Hartlepool,
'Brigg' if I remember was sold in the early 1970s and fished from the beach on Englands south coast from Hastings or Rye.
I believe only 1 remains which is 'De Aston' although it has not fished for several years it is now a house boat in Grimsby and is renamed 'Impulsive'


----------



## Kerbtrawler

Thanks Steve 
Keep forgetting to look in the gallery

nice photo
(Thumb)


----------



## Martyn J Halman

*Rapio Reported missing 08/02/1915*

Anyone know why and where the GY400, Rapio, sank/was lost? I understand this may answer at least a part of one of the earlier questions on the thread about her final fate. Reported missing all hands 08/02/1915. 

There is no record in the lost shipping lists 1914-1918. My great uncle was aboard, Frederick William Halman, Mill Road, Cleethorpes- deck hand.

The second hand was Frederick Bell, Columbia Road Gy. That's all I have so far; apart from when and where she was built etc and she belonged to GF Sleight.

Both crew members' names appear on the Tower Hill Memorial, therefore one assumes loss highly likely due to German Naval activity in some form. 

When my Grandfather's ship Resolute was sunk [6 Feb 1917] the record gives a position and that she was sunk by the sub's deck gun [64 miles E by S from St Abbs Head]. Any assistance on the Rapio appreciated.

Martyn


----------



## Per Clausen

*GY 186, Dorny*

Hallo

Does anyone know anything about the Dorny, GY186, dimensions, owner etc?

I attach an old photo from the Dorny.

Thanks in advance.

/Per


----------



## davetodd

Hello Per
1960 Olsen's has:-
DORNY GY186 O.N. 184906 Call Letters GMWX Wood Construction 19 net tons 62 HP Built 1941 at Esbjerg 
Owner Nyborg Fishing Co.Ltd.
Regards
Dave


----------



## ian potterton

Per Clausen said:


> Hallo
> 
> Does anyone know anything about the Dorny, GY186, dimensions, owner etc?
> 
> I attach an old photo from the Dorny.
> 
> Thanks in advance.
> 
> /Per


Per,
The Dorny was origionally owened by a Dane named Peder Nyborg,the vessels name is an anogram of his wifes name Dorothy,when Peder retiered she was owned by Poul Sorensen who Skippered her very successfully for a number of years.
Poul bought a bigger vessel 'Sorrento',GY417,and Dorny was sold to Danbrit fishing co.
I think the year was 1984 she caught fire in the North sea and was towed to Esbjerg by an industri trawler.
she was declared a total loss by the insurance,but I heared that the hull was saved and eventually refurbished and she became a shrimp trawler.
I have the ships wheel of this vessel.


----------



## Per Clausen

*GY186, Dorny*

Thanks Dave and Ian

I have heard about Peder Nyborg. My uncle joined him to England from Esbjerg.

I have found a picture on the net showing Dorny after it burned.

Ian do you know any of the people on the picture I posted before and do you know Poul Sorensen? Sorry for asking so directly.

/Per


----------



## ian potterton

Per....the picture is errrrm a little before my time ,I do not recognise any of the guys, great picture though.
Yes I know Poul very well,it was he who gave the Dornys wheel to me.


----------



## Per Clausen

OOOHH I'm sorry.

The picture is from the beginning of the 50's. So quite old. Also before my time.

So "Senior member" does not automatically lead to old people .

Somebody told me to phone Poul for information about old Grimsby fishing vessels. Poul has accepted that through the person i have talked to. But I have not phoned him yet. Want to collect some detailed informations first.

Do not want to waste to much of his time.

Per


----------



## Per Clausen

*Dorny*

Hi Ian

Here is the picture of the Dorny after it has caught fire.

/Per


----------



## ian potterton

Poul is now retiered and also a very nice gentleman I am sure he will be very happy to give you information,he can tell you much more than me.
the picture is when she was working from Grimsby I recognise the baskets,cor or kor in danish,not the type used by Danish vessels,they were oval shaped the danes refered to them as 100 pound capacity(wieght),the Grimsby baskets contained about 50 pound


----------



## Per Clausen

*Dorny*

Hi again Ian

Shall I try to find some informations about the Dorny at our town arcive here in Esbjerg?

Is Poul able to speak danish.


----------



## ian potterton

Hello Per,
I would like to kow the origional name and number.
the inscription on the wheel reads,
SI KJELDSEN SKIBSVAERFT ESBJERG,BG.No. 39,1941.
Oh yes Poul speaks Danish as well as you.....because he is Danish 
PS.there was an Esbjerg vessel owned by Borge Molgaard named 'Dormy',not the same boat.


----------



## Per Clausen

OK, Ian

I will try to find out. I know that the archive has a nearly complete list of the Esbjerg Vessels from 1900 and forward.

And with the number and shipyard it should be no problem.

You will hear from me.

/Per


----------



## Per Clausen

Hallo again Ian

I've found some very interesting informations about the Dorny.
It's name was E460 "Peder Nyborg" built in 1941 by Søren I Kjeldsens shipyard in Esbjerg. It's signal was OZIY. Motor power 67 hp, 37 BRT, In feet Length 56,3, breath 16,8, Dept 7,6. Owner was Søren S. Nyborg, Esbjerg.

It came to England back in 1941 and became a part of the air defence with armour around the steerhouse. It sailed around with balloons high in the air. In a danish book "Det er nødvendigt at sejle" by Allan Hjort Rasmussen is mentioned that the ship was nearly a wreak, because of gunfire.

In 1951 it disappears from the danish ship register and the name is changed to Dorny, GY 186.

The informations is from the fishing museum in Esbjerg who has all the papers from Peter Nyborg.

That was quite a story?

/Per


----------



## ian potterton

Qiute a story indeed Per,
It appears a lot of fishing vessels were requisitioned by the war office for this type of work,they were called 'barrage baloons',and were meant to discourage attack by German low level dive bombers Junkers 88,most were deployed around London,Rver Thames area I guess,also stratigic naval ports on the south coast of England,Plymouth and Portsmouth,they were also used on the French beaches during the Normany landings.
Is there any mention how the vessel escaped the German occupation of Denmark to come to the UK?
I am guessing that Soren Nyborg was Peders farther and Peder inherited the vessel from his farther?


----------



## Per Clausen

The answer from the museum do not write anything about how it escaped.

But I know that the fishing from the port of Esbjerg went on during the occupation. It was a very dangerous job and a lot of fishermen lost their lives because of mines and German attacks with boat and U-boot. The Germans rammed several of the fishing vessels with their warships and left the crews drowning.

At the ending of the war the fishermen feared to be ordered to sail the German troops from Norway to Germany. So the skippers held a meeting and it was agreed to sink the boots with their load of German troops on their way from Norway, if the were ordered to go. 

My grandfather was a close friend to Peter Nyborg and my father can clearly remember him coming in their home. He was a very big guy and had no fear. He died in 1992 in Grimsby.

I think he just left Denmark because of the German occupation and the way the treated the danish population and fishermen.

I think that you are right about Soren and Peter Nyborg

I can send you the answer from the museum if you want.

/Per


----------



## birgir

E.C. Grant 
Trawlerowner in Grimsby, before and after WW1.

Does anyone know anything about this fellow? Was he a member of the Letten family?

Birgir Thorisson


----------



## davetodd

birgir said:


> E.C. Grant
> Trawlerowner in Grimsby, before and after WW1.
> 
> Does anyone know anything about this fellow? Was he a member of the Letten family?
> 
> Birgir Thorisson


Not much found about E.C.Grant, but here it is,
Edward C. Grant Trawler owner. Fish Docks Grimsby
Only two vessels found.
RELIANCE GY30 ON 118936 built 1904 Skipper J.W.Little cert.no. 01896
WW1 Adm.No.999
Owner in 1911 given as T.W.Basckomb.
SIALKOT GY780 ON 134751 built 1912 Skipper J.W.Little cert.no. 01896
WW1 Adm.No.1660
Do not know of any connection with Letten, sorry.

Regards
Dave


----------



## birgir

Thanks Dave Todd.

Grant and Little (skipper Joe Little sr.) also owned the Great Admiral.

But the reason for the question is the trawler Walpole. A trawler Walpole was built in 1914. The owners were old William Letten, two unnamed nephews, and a young skipper, Jón Oddsson. (This is from Oddson´s biography.) Miramar has E.C. Grant as principal owner of that ship. He also had another Walpole built later. That is why I deduced that he was one of the two nephews, and am seeking confirmation of that deduction.

Birgir Thorisson


----------



## gil mayes

Dave & Birgir
This is what I have for GREAT ADMIRAL (127825) which had input from yourself Birgir.

10.1912: Sold to Thorarinn Olgeirsson, Reykjavik for £7000 (never paid as this was probably to secure his services). 4.10.1912: Grimsby registry closed. 10.1912: Registered at Reykjavik (RE152). 10.1915: Reclaimed by Edward C. Grant, Grimsby. 28.10.1915: Registered at Grimsby (GY733).
Should I now add 'Edward C. Grant, Grimsby (Edward C. Grant & Sk. Joe Little Snr)?
Gil.


----------



## davetodd

Cox's list gives
Great Admiral 127825 owners as Grant E & Little J. from 1908 to 1912.
However the Grimsby Archives has some different information as follows:-
1908 Owner Edward Cyril Grant Skipper Joseph William Little
1909 same as 1908
1910 ownership changes to W.Somerville Letten, J.W.Little as skipper.
1911 ownership changes back to E.C.Grant J.W.Little as skipper
1911 owner Cyril Grant! skipper John Dennison cert no.1193
1912 owner W.S.Letten skipper J.W.Little.
Will try to find more about E.C.Grant on my next library visit.
Regards
Dave


----------



## birgir

The source for Joe Little´s sr part ownership in Great Admiral is Thorarinn Olgeirsson´s autobiography. He became his son-in-law, and was a long time business partner of Joe Little jnr. (later of the Rinovia group). So he should be a reliable witness on that score.

Thorarinn Olgeirsson started out in 1907, as a teenager, as a deckhand on one of the first Icelandic trawlers, Marz, (ex-Seagull of Hull). By 1911 he was skipper, and immediately showed his ability, doing better than his mentor, skipper Hjalti Jonsson, who had a bigger and better ship, The Lord Nelson, (ex GY 194). However, according to his biography, the position of skipper of Marz was claimed in 1912 by another experienced skipper, Thorsteinn Thorsteinsson, (who was then skipper of Alec Black´s Belovar) who was a bigger shareholder than Thorarinn and his family, and because he had the offer from Joe Little, he gave up Marz and took the Great Admiral. The registration was pure formality, but it should be noted that the Great Admiral was operated in the normal Icelandic cycle, (salting feb-june, herring june-sept, and fresh fish for the british market; sept-feb), during the period it was registered to Thorarinn. It was also managed by Jes Zimsen, the manager of the company (Hf. Island) which owned Marz, Lord Nelson, and later April and Mai. He was also later the manager (and small shareholder) in Thorarinn Olgeirssons (and Joe Little jnr) trawler Belgaum. As result, these ships were sometimes recorded, e.g. by Lloyds, as belonging to Jes Zimsen.

There is obviously some connection between E.C.Grant and William Somerwille Letten. Jon Oddsson, who was William Letten´s protege, makes no mention of Grant. (Oddson, as he was called in Britain, left Iceland as teenager in 1908, as a deckhand (replacement for an injured seaman) on Letten´s trawler Volante, speaking no English. By 1912, Oddson was skipper of Volante. By 1914, he was a 1/4 owner of new ship, Walpole. Speaking of social mobility, and advancement opportunities...)

Birgir Thorisson


----------



## davetodd

Birgir,
The revised spelling from Oddsson to Oddson brings up two entries from the Grimsby Archives.
1911 vessel Tokio Owner H.L.Taylor among the crew list is J.Oddson Deckhand age 26 from Iceland.
and
1911 vessel Heron Owner T.Basckomb among crew list is J.Oddson
Mate age 23 from Iceland cert. no. 10438

Regards
Dave
p.s a note of caution here.
The information regarding crew lists on the GY archives website is taken from actual crew list record books and in my own experience, the ages and place of birth which is written in the books can not always be taken as accurate.
In general, the crew list books are in reasonable condition and readable. many entries, however, are clearly not written by the hand of the crew member.
Some in fact could not read or write English, so it would have been left to the "Ship's Hisband" or "Runner" to make the best entry he could.


----------



## birgir

On both occasions, you probably have Jon Oddsson. He was born on dec. 12 1887, so his age is correctly recorded onboard the Heron. However, his older brother, Gisli Oddsson was also in Britain at the same time, following largely a parallel course, e.g. Gisli succeeded Jon as deckhand on the Ugadale in 1908, and as mate on the Premier in 1912.

According to his biography, he did 3 trips as mate on two non-Letten ships, after receiving his mate-certificate, before becoming mate to Peter Jensen (Danish-Peter) on the Volante. Neither is mentioned by name. One was old and run down ship, with an equally old and run down skipper, who lost his command after the just two trips, one to the faroese grounds, and another to Iceland. The other he left after just one trip, because he found the skipper to be a nutcase. I wonder which is the Heron.



There is a problem with Oddson´s biography. He got a prolific writer, (and a close relative) to record his memoires. That fellow could never resist a good yarn, but was not particularly interested in details. Thus he makes him younger than he was, when he left Iceland. (He was 20.) Also, he makes Volante "one of britains biggest trawlers 350 tons", (instead of 250), thus making Oddson´s rise all the more noteworthy.

Birgir Thorisson


----------



## birgir

Dave Todd.

I had a look at the Lincolnshire archives, which seem to be the same as you have been quoting. For some reason, they only seem to have crew lists for 1911 online. Maybe a sample.
Owners listed seem to be questionable. Fred Coulson is listed with many trawlers, so is Sir George Doughty. I find neither in Cox. So, isn´t it just the name of the managing agent that handles the crew registration? Or were the ships changing hands much more rapidly than is reflected in such publications as Cox, or the Cook, Welton & Gemmel book?

Birgir Thorisson


----------



## davetodd

birgir said:


> Dave Todd.
> 
> I had a look at the Lincolnshire archives, which seem to be the same as you have been quoting. For some reason, they only seem to have crew lists for 1911 online. Maybe a sample.
> Owners listed seem to be questionable. Fred Coulson is listed with many trawlers, so is Sir George Doughty. I find neither in Cox. So, isn´t it just the name of the managing agent that handles the crew registration? Or were the ships changing hands much more rapidly than is reflected in such publications as Cox, or the Cook, Welton & Gemmel book?
> 
> Birgir Thorisson


Birgir
I visited the Grimsby Archives today and spoke to the Archivist regarding the online information.
The crew lists for 1911 are about 85 percent complete. The information shown on the website is taken directly from the original crew list books ( now nearly 100 years old ). The owner in the crew lists is in fact the Manager as you suggested.
More will be added in due time.
While there, I took some digital photo's of the registry entries for Walpole.
Although the pic's are not of the best quality ( due to my inexperience with digital cameras and old age!) some are clear enough to read Oddsson's name and signature.
12 pic's in all.
Also ( from the Grimsby Library ) copies of the funeral report for William Somerville Letten in 1916.
If you send me your e-mail address via a PM then I will send them off to you, should you wish.
Regards
Dave


----------



## wally

*grimsby pair trawlers*



willowbankbear said:


> Has anyone got any info on the pair teams that operated from GY back in the 70`s & 80`s?
> Particularly The Leanda, it was BCK registered & paired with the Carl Borum . The skipper of Carl Borum was Riley & the other skipper was Steve ?
> 
> The Pairs I remember landing into Wick were Lochearn & Falkenborg, Kronborg & Jasarann, Delvan + Carol Ann, Sarah Thinnesen + Pickering, Wendy Pulfrey + Janet Sate, Coromandel + Frances Bojen, Jean Scott + Sharronelle, Leanda + Carl Borum, Jaqueline Borum+ Trendsetter, Andrew Borum + ?? , Tino + Samantha, Im sure there were a few others .... can anybody remember??
> 
> Is Melvin Cox from the Lochearn still alive, he was quite a character


Hi there,
The Leanda was skippered by steve Bryan at that time & the Carl Borum by Graham Riley,I know she ended up being decommisioned in about 1990 (leanda),she was stripped down in Grimsby but don't know where she was scrapped.the andrew borum was paired with the christian borum until the phillip borum was launched,wendy pulfrey was converted to long lining,coromandel still fishing from peterhead,all others decommissioned at various stages sharonelle & jean scott was in 2001 jean scott scrapped at north killingholme near grimsby,sharonelle was at same time scrapped in Grenaa in Denmark.I was on the sharonelle for 20 years ,14 years as skipper/part owner.Melvin Cox died about 3years ago,his brother des cox who skippered the jasarann is still fishing from Grimsby in the Edlei.


----------



## shaggy

Is that the famous Wally Kirwin from the IOT?


----------



## Kerbtrawler

*B.U.T Vessels*

Would anyone have a list of all of the vessels owned and operated by B.U.T?

cheers


----------



## temptage

*GY1 - Framlingham and GY3 - Lavenham*

Am looking for photos of these trawlers. Both were owned, so im led to believe by Charles Dobson just after WW2.

Any info or fotos would be very gratefully received.(==D)


----------



## davetodd

temptage said:


> Am looking for photos of these trawlers. Both were owned, so im led to believe by Charles Dobson just after WW2.
> 
> Any info or fotos would be very gratefully received.(==D)


Hello temptage
Framlingham GY1 was built as Rodrigo GY1208 for G.F.Sleight of Grimsby.
Official number was 113214, built in 1900 at Selby. In 1938 trabsferred to Lowestoft for Consolidated Fisheries Ltd. and renamed Framlingham.
After WW2 was returned to Grimsby and re-registered as GY1 Owner C.Dobson. In 1947 she is owned by Elkington Estates Ltd. Grimsby Manager C.Dobson.
Broken up in 1952.
Grimsby Reference Library have one photograph of this vessel as Rodrigo and one photo. as Framlingham.

Lavenham GY3 was built as Rosco GY1232 for G.F.Sleight of Grimsby.
Official number was 113232, built in Beverley in 1902.
After WW2 returned to Grimsby and re-registered as GY3 Lavenham.
Owner Elkington Estates Ltd. Grimsby. Manager C.Dobson.

No photo's at Grimsby Reference Library.

Regards
Dave


----------



## TSJ59

Hi - As it happens there is a photo of _Framlingham_ in todays (Sat.Jul 11th) Grimsby Telegraph. Here's a link to a watermarked image: _LINK_

Cheers, Terry


----------



## birgir

Belgaum GY 821.

Graham Abbey´s Cochrane building list has an entry for this ship as Belgaum GY 821 Yard no. 649, recorded as built for J.C. Little Grimsby. It is given the number IMO 5603987. Launched 11/09/1915.

This ship is not recorded in Cox.

The ship is recorded as transferred 1916 to Hf. Island, Reykjavik, Iceland. 

The history of the ship, as I had previously known it, was that it was on order at the outbreak of ww1 for skipper Thorarinn Olgeirsson, Iceland, but was retained for war service until 1919 when it was returned. The source is Olgeirsson´s autobiography. 

Thorarinn Olgeirsson was the son-law of skipper/trawler part-owner Joe Little snr. Skipper Joe Little jnr, (later of Rinovia company) was Olgeirsson´s partner, post-war, and may have owned 1/4 or 1/8 in Belgaum. (Olgeirsson minimizes their association in his autobiography, which was written during the first Cod war, when the issue was sensitive.)

Can anyone verify the registration, GY 821, and what it records about the ownership of the ship?

Birgir Thorisson


----------



## aavh

Birgir, She is not in the 1917 Olsens, Toghill has her as owned by Abunda Fishing Co Grimsby Registered at Reykjavik RE 161.

Hope this helps 

Andy


----------



## gil mayes

BELGAUM (RE161) was requisitioned for war service Mar 1916 under that PLN. GY821 was occupied by a 2nd Class fishing boat (AM) LILLIE FRANCIS from 4.3.1913 to 6.10.1928.
Gil.


----------



## billblow

Why in the 1960's did Grimsby once again have a Belgaum owned by an Abunda Fishing Co. What connection if any with the earlier combination of Belgaum / Abunda, as I find it difficult to see one?
Billblow


----------



## gil mayes

I am not really the one to respond, Bill, but as I understand Abunda Fishing Co Ltd, Murray Street, Fish Docks, Grimsby was a 1960s creation and a skipper's co-op.
Cox. He did miss one, or maybe more, LAPWING(102966) was allocated (GY317) on 24.8.1925 and the registration was closed 12.11.1925.
Gil.


----------



## billblow

Thanks Gil, I did know the cir***stances of the 60's Abunda / Belgaum but what intrigues me was why pick the same combination of company and vessel name so many years later. 
Bill


----------



## gil mayes

What I meant Bill was that I did not think that Abunda was established in another form in 1916. 
Gil.


----------



## nicolina

The Abunda Fishing Co was formed by 3 Grimsby skippers Jim Nunn Bil Ball junior and Paul Adelsteinsson.
They bougth from Boston D S F the trawlers Prince Philip Boston Fury and St Cristopher.
They did choose and R/N the ships of their choice and Icelandic born Paul Adelsteinsson took the Prince Philip and R/N her Belgaum after the Icelandic trawler once skippered and co-owned once by his father and where he probabely started his career.
The name Belgaum is from an district/city in India.
Skipper Bill Ball took the Boston Fury and R/N her Abunda
Cant find the name Abunda but it migth have an connection to abundance of fish wich Bill Ball was used to.
Skipper Jim Nunn yook the St Chrisstopher and R/N her Oratava
The name Oratava is on the island Tenerife on the Canarys.
The Abunda Fishing Co did get a 4 partner later in skipper Tommy Whitcomb who was skipper on the Belgaum for around 16 years.
The Abunda Fishing Co was managed by Boston DSF.


----------



## davetodd

The name ABUNDA as far as I know was constructed from the the first two intials of three surnames but reversed:-
AB from Balls
UN from Nunn
DA from Adelsteinsson.
Sort of back to front acronym if you will(EEK) 
Regards
Dave


----------



## gil mayes

So BELGUAM (RE161) association with Abunda Fishing Co Ltd in WW1 is a Toghill mix-up?
Gil.


----------



## Eddy Blackmore

Hi all,
Does anyone remember MFV Scarthoe from Grimsby fish docks? My parents bought it in 1989 and we lived onboard for one year before we took it to Goole and then on to North Shields. I don't have any information on the couple that we bought it from, but perhaps some of you may be able to provide a bit more background...?
Scarthoe is a 60-footer and was converted to a houseboat before we bought it. To the best of my knowledge the work was carried out in Grimsby.
Anyone with any info please let me know.
Eddy


----------



## Steve Farrow

Eddy,

All I can tell you is that the Scarthoe, GY 568 was built in Demark in 1942 and worked out of Grimsby as an anchor seiner. In 1977 she was owned by the Arcona Fishing Company Ltd. GY. I have a photo of her...attached, but Grimsby reference library may well have more information.

Regards

Steve


----------



## Eddy Blackmore

Steve,
Thanks for the picture and the background. I'll do some digging at the Reference library but it doesn't look as though they have a website at first glance.
Would you be able to point me towards your source for this photo and information... i've been searching through the various websites for anything I can find on Scarthoe for some time now but with no joy whatsoever.
Thanks again.
Kind regards,
Eddy


----------



## davetodd

Hello Eddy
Just to add a little more to Steve's information.
Scarthoe GY568 Official Number 166672 built 1942 in Denmark Tonnages 44 and 24 Owner Arcona Fishing Co. in 1960
Grimsby Central Library has 17 photographs of this vessel, most are black/white and some are "snaps" of the crew.
Two of the photographs are colour and it is seen that the hull is painted Green and that the fishing number GY568 has been removed.
Further information regarding ownership may be found by contacting the Grimsby Archives.
I have added a small image of one of the press cuttings from the Grimsby Central Library (Reference Library)
Regards
Dave


----------



## donald mckay

Scarthoe used to land in Wick often Skipper if memory serves me well was "Tago" Larsson


----------



## Kerbtrawler

*Kyoto GY 453*

Hi,
I have been asked to ask if anyone knows where I can get a photo of the Kyoto GY 453 official number 139319
would GY Library have a copy or the telegraph?

thanks


----------



## davetodd

Kerbtrawler said:


> Hi,
> I have been asked to ask if anyone knows where I can get a photo of the Kyoto GY 453 official number 139319
> would GY Library have a copy or the telegraph?
> 
> thanks


Kyoto GY453 ON 139319 built 1917 Selby Owner H.L.Taylor B.U.1962
Grimsby Reference Library have 5 photo's.
Not sure if any are repeats.
Regards
Dave


----------



## Kerbtrawler

Thanks for that dave

I'll send them over there to get the copy

cheers


----------



## rezmopups

*Re the SS Queenborough*



TSJ59 said:


> Hi All
> 
> The fate of Grimsby’s Steam Trawler _Queenborough_ GY 658 is shown by Clydebuilt Ships Database and other sources as:_ “Went Missing After - 30/05/1917”_ but CWGC lists nine casualties remembered on Tower Hill Memorial with the date of death 21/03/1917. Just wondering if anyone knows of any subsequent details of her loss that may have emerged to convince CWGC the loss was war related and on that date?
> 
> Cheers, Terry


Hi Terry
Just found your posting re the Queenborough. My great grandfather was Charles Collett, a Trimmer onboard that was lost in 1917. I was just wondering what your interest is in the ship. My uncle and I have been trying to find out what exactly happened to her for several years now. The conflicting dates are not helping either. I only have the crew agreement for the ship for 30th Dec 1916 and the details from the CWGC etc. Always wondered why it didn't appear in any loss books. Did you manage to find out any further info? It would be good to hear from you when you have a minute.

Regards
Debbie Collett


----------



## wally

*marine operator*



shaggy said:


> Is that the famous Wally Kirwin from the IOT?


YES IT'S THE VERY SAME ONE,HOW YOU DOING DAVE.


----------



## Roger Griffiths

rezmopups said:


> Hi Terry
> Just found your posting re the Queenborough. My great grandfather was Charles Collett, a Trimmer onboard that was lost in 1917. I was just wondering what your interest is in the ship. My uncle and I have been trying to find out what exactly happened to her for several years now. The conflicting dates are not helping either. I only have the crew agreement for the ship for 30th Dec 1916 and the details from the CWGC etc. Always wondered why it didn't appear in any loss books. Did you manage to find out any further info? It would be good to hear from you when you have a minute.
> 
> Regards
> Debbie Collett


QUEENBOROUGH was stopped and sunk by the German submarine U86 on 23/March/1917. I assume that the fishermen got into the lifeboat but this was subsequently lost and that they were posted missing on 30/May/1917.
Again I assume that the CWGC have followed there own rules to the letter and ruled that because the lifeboat was lost then this was not a *direct* result of enemy action. Therefor the fishermen would not be entitled to War Grave status.
Maybe Billy McGee could give us his expert opinion.

Roger


----------



## Billy1963

The unrestricted submarine warfare was again declared by Germany on the 1st February 1917, so the Queenborough was probably sunk without warning.

All 9 crew are commemorated by the CWGC as being lost 21st March 1917.

ALLARD, Skipper, JOHN, "Queenborough.". Mercantile Marine. Drowned 21st March 1917. Age 27. Husband of Clara Harris (formerly Allard), of 146, Barcroft St., Cleethorpes. 

COLLETT, Trimmer, CHARLES, Steam Trawler "Queenborough" (Grimsby). Mercantile Marine. Drowned, as a result of an attack by an enemy submarine, 21st March 1917. Age 42. Husband of Mrs. Collett, of 47, Rutland St., Grimsby. Born in London. 

CROSSMAN, Second Engineer, SAMUEL CARTER, Steam Trawler "Queenborough" (Grimsby). Mercantile Marine. Drowned, as a result of an attack by an enemy submarine, 21st March 1917. Age 58. Born at Tavistock. 

DENNIS, Steward, EDWARD OVERTON, Steam Trawler "Queenborough" (Grimsby). Mercantile Marine. Drowned, as a result of an attack by an enemy submarine, 21st March 1917. Age 29. Husband of Mrs. Dennis, of 121, Thorold St., Grimsby. Born at Grimsby. 

EVARDSON, Third Hand, EMIL ROBERT, Steam Trawler "Queenborough" (Grimsby). Mercantile Marine. Drowned, as a result of an attack by an enemy submarine, 21st March 1917. Age 20. Son of Mrs. Evardson, of 56, Grafton St., Grimsby. Born at Grimsby. 

GREEN, Second Hand, WILLIAM JOHN, Steam Trawler "Queenborough" (Grimsby). Mercantile Marine. Drowned, as a result of an attack by an enemy submarine, 21st March 1917. Age 29. Son of James and Emma Green; husband of Lillie Green, of 170, Weelsby St., Grimsby. Born at Wivenhoe, Essex. 

JACKSON, First Engineer, JOHN, Steam Trawler "Queenborough" (Grimsby). Mercantile Marine. Drowned, as a result of an attack by an enemy submarine, 21st March 1917. Age 54. Husband of Mrs. Jackson, of 162 Back, Albion St., Grimsby. Born at Hull. 

SHARE, Deck Hand, ARTHUR ERNEST, Steam Trawler "Queenborough" (Grimsby). Mercantile Marine. Drowned, as a result of an attack by an enemy submarine, 21st March 1917. Age 18. Son of Mrs. Share, of 20, Trinity St., Grimsby. Born at Grimsby. 

TABER, Deck Hand, E, Steam Trawler "Queenborough" (Grimsby). Mercantile Marine. Drowned, as a result of an attack by an enemy submarine, 21st March 1917. Age 52. Son of Mr. and Mrs. Taber, of 57, Stanley St., Grimsby. Born in London.


----------



## perduda

*GY1029 Resto*

Hi,
Does anyone have any details on the "Resto", Lost at sea Feb 1915.
Regards
Carolyn


----------



## gkh151

Hi Carolyn.

She was numbered GY1209. As far as I know there where nine people lost.

Sorry its not much but I am sure there will be some one who will give you a lot more detail.

Graham


----------



## TSJ59

Hello - Here's a bit more detail on _Resto_.

Cheers, Terry

25 Feb. 1915 S.T. RESTO GY 1209
169 gt. 101ft. x 21ft. O.N. 113215
Built 1900 by Cochrane & Cooper, Selby for G.F. Sleight, Grimsby.
Jan.1901, Registered Resto GY 1209 (G.F. Sleight, Grimsby).
Posted missing since 25/2/1915: Lost with all hands.
Casualties (Commemorated By CWGC):

ABREHART, Victor Arthur (28) Deck Hand 
Husband of Rose Emma Abrehart, of 5, Wesley St., Lowestoft.
Born at Mitcham.
BISHOP, Christopher Skipper 
CARRATT, Joseph (39) Cook 
Husband of Annie Carratt, of 4, George St., Cleethorpes.
Born at Louth.
COLE, Albert Edward (27) Third hand 
Husband of Caroline Annie Cole, of 162, Victor St., Grimsby.
Born in London.
GEAR, John William (49) Second Hand 
Husband of Rose Gear, of 110, Thorold St., Grimsby.
Born at Greenwich.
GILL, William Matthew (39) Second Engineer 
Son of Mrs. Johnson, of 630, Hessle Rd., Dairycoates, Hull.
Born at Hull.
McPHUN, John (50) First Engineer 
Husband of Maggie McPhun, of 30, Coombe St., New Cleethorpes.
Born at Glasgow.
NORGATE, John Samuel (21) Fourth Hand 
Son of Mrs. Mary Ann Eliza Norgate, of 58, College St., Cleethorpes.
Born at Gorleston.
PALMER, Charles Alexander (18) Trimmer 
Born in London.


----------



## Peter Webb

*Missing Crew lists*

Hi Carolyn,

My GG Grandfather R Cook was lost on the Resono, 26th Dec 1915, also a GY sleights trawler, (details found on this forum) 

However now that the national archives, have catalogued most of their archives, try searching by surname or ship (This is where I got the lost crew list for Resono from) You can now order a set of do***ents up to 10 pages, for £ 8.50, and they will email you a link. Or they will quote for a set of do***ents 
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue, i got the do***ents for R Cook & a list of crew, (and if graves etc)

Pete


----------



## perduda

Thanks so much to you all for the information.
I appreciate it.
Carolyn


----------



## Peter Webb

Hi Carolyn,

Don't know if it will help, but some of the RNR (Royal Naval Reserve) which the trawler crew were, are named on the Chatham Naval Memorial, I went there on Sunday and took photos, including panel 14, which names my great granddad Daniel Robert Cook, had I not got the NA report into his death, by looking for the missing crew list for Resono, sunk 26th Dec 1915, I would have been looking for Robert Cook, as he was known to the family, panel 14 lists the missing men for 1915, the war memorial was erected in 1924, and does not name the ship, only rank or trade, then alphabetic lists the names 

I only took panel 14, as a close up and some general layout pics. Send me a PM 
Pete

(Email address removed as per site policy - please see the *guidelines* )


----------



## codex47

Clem said:


> Hi everyone, I've started this thread to discuss Grimsby fishing vessels. I'm in the process of compiling a database of the above and, would welcome any contributions on this theme. ie. photo's, stories of life on board, histories of the vessels etc.
> 
> Hopefully as this thread develops, it can become a reference point for people with similar interests.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Clem


Hi Clem,nice thing youve got going here,im a local lad who fished from the late 60s to the end,i did my second trip to sea aged 13 on the Port Vale,i still have the insurance certificate that was issued to me to allow me on board as a plesure tripper(we used to make trips in the school summer holidays to see if we liked the job)That class of ship was known as "Beatle Boats"any info?


----------



## K urgess

Welcome aboard from the other side of the river and up a bit, Codex.
I'm sure someone in the crew will recognise the phrase "Beatle Boats" and reply.
Meanwhile find your way around and have a good trip.


----------



## trotterdotpom

Welcome Codex. I did a couple of trips on Port Vale too (also "beetled about" on Spurs, Real Madrid and Crystal Palace).

Ray Richardson's "Sidewinder" website seems to have disappeared but there are still bits and pieces on the web and you will find all you want to know about Consolidated Fisheries at: http://web.ukonline.co.uk/rayricho/

There are even newspaper clippings for each ship from the year dot. Enjoy.

John T.


----------



## codex47

trotterdotpom said:


> Welcome Codex. I did a couple of trips on Port Vale too (also "beetled about" on Spurs, Real Madrid and Crystal Palace).
> 
> Ray Richardson's "Sidewinder" website seems to have disappeared but there are still bits and pieces on the web and you will find all you want to know about Consolidated Fisheries at: http://web.ukonline.co.uk/rayricho/
> 
> There are even newspaper clippings for each ship from the year dot. Enjoy.
> 
> John T.


Thanks Guys,i think it came about because they were built during the Beatles era


----------



## aavh

*Sidewinder*

Ray Richardson's site can be found here
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/grimsby.trawlers/main.htm

Andy
www.grantontrawlers.com


----------



## trotterdotpom

Thanks AAVH, wondered where Ray was "laid dodging".

John T.


----------



## wahwerit

*Hello I am after any information or pictures film footage on the Sargon from 1948*



mattarosa said:


> Here is what the Times said in 1948
> 
> The Times, Saturday, Mar 20, 1937
> GRIMSBY TRAWLER WRECKED
> ELEVEN LIVES LOST
> Reykjavik, Dec 3 – The six survivors of the crew of the Grimsby trawler Sargon, which was wrecked in Patreksfjord, are being cared for at farms. Ten others of the crew died of exposure and another was washed overboard.
> The Sargon, which left Hull for Iceland on November 24, was caught by a gale miles from shore. Her captain and crew made a great fight to reach the relative shelter of the fjord and succeeded in reaching the outer stretches, but strong winds and high seas prevented their gaining the harbour.
> Coastguards and farmers from the scattered villages near the fjord went to help, in answer to a radioed S.O.S. as the Sargon began to founder. For hours they struggled to reach a point where they could get a lifeline to the trawler. After rigging the line they hauled in, in a bosun’s chair, those of the crew who had sufficient strength left to clamber into it. Mountainous seas and a 70-mile-an-hour gale made it impossible for either the Sargon’s lifeboats or rescue vessels from the shore to be launched.
> The Sargon is a complete wreck. Rescue parties were standing by today to try, at the first favourable opportunity, to recover the bodies.
> 
> The Times, Monday, Dec 06, 1948
> TRAWLER SURVIVORS WELL CARED FOR
> Reykjavik, Dec 5
> The six survivors from the Grimsby trawler Sargon, which was wrecked on the west coast of Iceland on the evening of November 30, are being well cared for and should soon recover. The news of the rescue was delayed because of storm damage to communications on the west coast.
> 
> The Times, Wednesday, May 11, 1949
> LOSS OF THE SARGON
> COURT’S TRIBUTE
> Hull, May 10
> The findings were delivered today of an investigation ordered by the Ministry of Transport and held at Hull Guildhall before Mr K S Carpmael, K.C., into the loss of the steam trawler Sargon. This vessel was wrecked off the west coast of Iceland on December 1 last. Eleven lives were lost. Six men were rescued by lifeline.
> The court of inquiry found that very bad weather was the cause and that there was no question of any wrongful act by the owners, skipper or any other person. No blame could be attached to the skipper, Mr A. E. Jenner, of Hull, who lost his life, for seeking the shelter of Patreksfjord or for dodging about on various courses after finding that his anchor would not hold. The court of inquiry also found that that the Sargon was seaworthy when she left her home port and that the lifesaving appliances complied fully with the regulations.
> The court paid tribute to the fortitude of the skipper and the crew, most of whom perished from exposure in a severe gale and snowstorm, and to the efforts made by the rescue party on shore.


Hello Im after any pictures , film footage , information on the Sargon . I am the grandson of the late Sydney Wahwerit who was the 2nd mate I think on the Sargon in 1948 and survived , Ive tried e mailing the museum at patreksfjordur but only recievd sketchy information back. I know that somewhere out there is information and I was told that my grandfather recieved a bravery award . He sailed out of Hull and finished his time on light boats like the Upper and Lower Whitton . I grateful of any information as I was only young when he passed and memories fade


----------



## Jasper Goedbloed

*The Guava lost after 31 January 1953*



willie_howe said:


> any information on this trawler i believe my grandfather was on her when she was lost


The Lowestoft trawler Guava that was lost during the disastrous storm of 31 January and 1 Februari 1953 is most likely not the Guava originally called British Columbia and built in 1935, as mentioned by Roger Griffith. The site ‘Fleetwood Online Archive of Trawlers’ reports as Date Sunk: 29/09/1957, 4 years later.

During the storm 9 vessels disappeared and on 4 March 1953 Lloyd’s London dispatched in the Lloyd’s List and Shipping Gazette a ‘Vessel for Inquiry’ message for 8 of these vessels, among these the Guava. The message states (translated back from Dutch to English): “Guava, motor trawler from Lowestoft, registration number 166722, gross tons 285 [personal comment: in contrast to the 134 of the British Columbia], skipper Fisher. Departed from Lowestoft on 30 January 1953. Was reported on 31 January as sailing on 54 20 N, 4 40 E.”

The book ‘Posted Missing’ by Alan Villiers (Hodder and Stoughton, London, 1956, so 3 years after the disaster) pays due attention to these 9 missing ships. It states that the Guava was built in 1945 in Pembroke and served for some time as a mine-sweeper in the Mediterranean. The ship was sold after WW II and converted into a motor trawler for fishing in the North Sea only. The crew total during its fatal trip was 11.

Jasper


----------



## gil mayes

GUAVA (166722), 285g 100n 127.9 x 26.0 x 12.4 ft was built by Hancock & Co, Pembroke Dock in 1945 as a composite constructed minesweeper, with a 6-cyl National Gas & Oil Engine. At the time of her loss she was owned by Claridge Trawlers Ltd, Lowestoft (G.D. Claridge, manager).
Gil.


----------



## crazy viking

good idea clem was u a fisherman yourself or just something you intrested in
all my family was fishermen and now i the only one who still goes to sea, i have seen your list of trawlers u want imfo on i was on the ross kelly for a time and the northern sky when i get me thinking cap on i can tell u a few things about the ships


----------



## birgir

WAHWERIT, SARGON.

I should reply to your inquiry, because the Sargon was wrecked close to my childhood home, and the event was in living memory, when I was a child.

There exists a film that shows the last survivors being hauled ashore from the ship. Among them must be the last two, Fred Collins (then aged 17), and your grandfather. It is Fred Collins that presumably is still alive.
The film-maker was there, because a year earlier, the trawler Dhoon from Fleetwood had run aground, under the high cliffs of Latrabjarg, The westernmost point in Europe. 12 of the crew of 15 were saved after a four days rescue operation mounted by the people from the neighbouring farms in the most difficult conditions. 
Those who stayed in the wheelhouse, and resorted to alchohol died. Those who sought shelter forward were rescued. They were very ably led by the boatswain, Albert Head. 
In december 1948, a filmmaker was in the visinity, making a re-enacted do***entary, when the news of the stranding of the Sargon was received. The re-enactors set course for the location of the stranding, and rescued the survivors. The film-maker, Oskar Gislason, followed them as fast as he could, carrying his camera, and managed to catch the end of the rescue operation, which is a very impressive and memorable footage.
The Sargon-tragedy was completely unneccary. 11 died, 6 were rescued. The ship did not break up. The wheelhouse was not swept overboard. Those who sought shelter forward, were rescued, but only one of those who stayed in the wheelhouse, and put their faith in alchohol to keep them warm.
There are discrepances in the accounts of the survivors, both at the time, at both the Icelandic and British inquests, and when a journalist interviewed those surviving 24 years later. A man who was one of those who boarded the trawler after the storm to recover the bodies, told me that all published accounts are wrong, but he refused to tell me what it was that was omitted. 

Birgir Thorisson


----------



## marg29

I'm also interested in the ''Resto''; but can't find out where or how she was sunk. Has anyone got that info' please


----------



## gil mayes

RESTO (113215),Cochrane & Cooper Ltd, Selby 14.12.1900. All I have is,
03.01.1901: Registered at Grimsby (GY1209). 25.02.1915: Posted missing whilst on a North Sea trip. No survivors. 17.05.1915: Grimsby registry closed 'Missing'.
Grateful if anyone has any more detail.
Gil.


----------



## mattarosa

gil mayes said:


> RESTO - Grateful if anyone has any more detail.
> Gil.


Gil
A brief note from the Times:

Saturday, Jul 10, 1915
Submarine Victims. More Loss Of Life Among Fishermen. 

The Grimsby trawler Resto, owned by Mr G F Sleight, has been officially given up as lost with all hands. She sailed on a fishing voyage on February 25 and has not been seen or heard of since. Mr Sleight has lost close on a dozen vessels since the outbreak of war.

Hilary


----------



## Irwing

My great-grandfather John Abel Job Woods (b 1878) was an engineer on Grimsby trawlers. I have recently been told by a family member that he served as an engineer on minesweepers (RNR) in WWI but I have no do***entary evidence to support that (although medals were issued). I would like to find out about the fishing vessels on which he served.


----------



## mattarosa

Irwing said:


> My great-grandfather John Abel Job Woods (b 1878) was an engineer on Grimsby trawlers. I have recently been told by a family member that he served as an engineer on minesweepers (RNR) in WWI but I have no do***entary evidence to support that (although medals were issued). I would like to find out about the fishing vessels on which he served.




Although it concentrates more on WW2, this website may be of some assistance to you.

http://www.royal-naval-reserve.co.uk/research.htm


----------



## Irwing

mattarosa said:


> Although it concentrates more on WW2, this website may be of some assistance to you.
> 
> http://www.royal-naval-reserve.co.uk/research.htm


Thank you very much for the link.


----------



## tollers

Hi everyone,

I've been searching for a photo of a Hull trawler that my uncle sailed on just after WW2, the trawler was the Lady Elsa, can anyone help me.

Cheers
Tollers


----------



## trotterdotpom

tollers said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> I've been searching for a photo of a Hull trawler that my uncle sailed on just after WW2, the trawler was the Lady Elsa, can anyone help me.
> 
> Cheers
> Tollers


Hull Heritage Prints have a photo of sidewinder Lady Elsa (H287) owned by Jutland Amalgamated. See www.hullheritageprints.co.uk

Good luck.

John T.


----------



## Steve Farrow

I am looking for information regarding the loss of the Grimsby trawler LISMORE GY 1186, sunk after a collission in 1907. Any help would be appreciated.

Regards

Steve


----------



## aavh

Steve, According to Larn's Shipwreck Index of the British Isles she foundered following a collision with the Norwegian S.S. "EVA" 20 miles N1/2E from Spurn Head. Wind conditions SSE force 1. It appears that all nine crew were rescued.11.05.1907.

Andy
www.Grantontrawlers.com


----------



## Steve Farrow

aavh said:


> Steve, According to Larn's Shipwreck Index of the British Isles she foundered following a collision with the Norwegian S.S. "EVA" 20 miles N1/2E from Spurn Head. Wind conditions SSE force 1. It appears that all nine crew were rescued.11.05.1907.
> 
> Andy
> www.Grantontrawlers.com


Thanks for that Andy.......I'm trying to put some history to her ships bell that has just been recovered by a team of divers.

Regards Steve


----------



## mattarosa

Steve Farrow said:


> I am looking for information regarding the loss of the Grimsby trawler LISMORE GY 1186, sunk after a collission in 1907.
> 
> Hi Steve
> Hope you are well. By a curious coincidence, I just came across this in the archive of the Scotsman newspaper:
> 
> May 21, 1904
> A SALVAGE CASE
> Sheriff Stuart, Wick, has issued his decision in a claim for salvage by the Lindsay Steam Fishing Company, Grimsby, against the Steam Herring Fleet Company, Aberdeen. An accident befel the steam drifter Glenlivet belonging to the Aberdeen company and she was towed about sixty miles to Wick by the Grimsby company's trawler, Lismore. The Sheriff finds the latter company entitled to £45 for salvage, increased by other items to £50.7s, with modified expenses.
> 
> Hilary


----------



## Steve Farrow

mattarosa said:


> Steve Farrow said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am looking for information regarding the loss of the Grimsby trawler LISMORE GY 1186, sunk after a collission in 1907.
> 
> Hi Steve
> Hope you are well. By a curious coincidence, I just came across this in the archive of the Scotsman newspaper:
> 
> May 21, 1904
> A SALVAGE CASE
> Sheriff Stuart, Wick, has issued his decision in a claim for salvage by the Lindsay Steam Fishing Company, Grimsby, against the Steam Herring Fleet Company, Aberdeen. An accident befel the steam drifter Glenlivet belonging to the Aberdeen company and she was towed about sixty miles to Wick by the Grimsby company's trawler, Lismore. The Sheriff finds the latter company entitled to £45 for salvage, increased by other items to £50.7s, with modified expenses.
> 
> Hilary
> 
> 
> 
> Hi Hilary,
> 
> Thank you for the above information which I have just passed on to the divers that found the wreck!
> 
> Regards
> 
> Steve
Click to expand...


----------



## appleby

I am looking for information about a GY smack LIZZIE THORPE (85tons, built Grimsby 1884). She was owned by W. Toogood, and is mentioned in "sailing trawlers" as "being loaned to a firm to convert her into a self moving vessel".


----------



## Kerbtrawler

Hi there
the Lizzie Thorpe GY 955 Owned by W J P Hood in 1885
1886 owned by Geo Dobson, same in 1887
1888 same owners
1890 same
1889 owned by Henry Bell
Then I loose track

hope this helps


----------



## davetodd

To add a little to kerbtrawler's data:-

Lizzie Thorpe O.N.90366 appears in the 1892 Mercantile Navy List Sailing Vessels.
Type "Dandy" built 1884 Owner George Dobson of 324 Victoria Street Grimsby.
Regards
Dave


----------



## appleby

thank you fellers.
I was using the information from the book "sailing trawlers".
Another thing I found on the internet regarding the lizzie thorpe is, that there was an attempted murder aboard in 1890, though I have not been able to substantiate this.


----------



## aavh

Look here

http://find.galegroup.com/bncn/retr...listoContentSet=BNCN&docPage=article&hilite=y


----------



## nicolina

I am lookin for informations on a Grimsby seine netter the Liberade GY 105.
Any input welcome.
Nicolina


----------



## aavh

Should it not be "LIBERDADE". According to Olsens 1951: She was built of wood in Buckie in 1950. 21net, 23hp motor. Owned by Leonard M. Norton & Haldane N. Isaksen Cleethorpes.
Not in 1961 under this name

Andy


----------



## ian potterton

I think the origional name was Liberdale,GY105,Captain Isaksen became a tutor at the Grimsby collage of fisheries,I remember him showing us cine film of her anchor seining at faxe foi bay,Iceland for Plaice in the 1950's.
This vessel was remamed 'Thor',as a kid I remember in Grimsby in the mid 1970's,she was at that time rigged for trawling and in very poor condition,I do not know what became of her.
She was wood construction and the hull was painted white.
She had aft accomadation as opposed to the traditional fwd accomadation,the fishroom extended right fwd and she had a reputation of being a poor sea ship,heavy in the bow with any bulk of fish on board and was said to ship heavy water fwd.


----------



## aavh

Olsens 1968: Owned by Thor Steam Fishing Co Ltd Grimsby. As does 1971. 
1978: Owned by Raymond Maltby Boston. 180 hp. Not in 1981 Olsens under "Thor"
Andy
www.grantontrawlers.com


----------



## BRIAN STONEMAN

clem
looking for any info on Northern Crown ,as my father was a deckie learner when it ran aground, also the Laforey sinking off the Norweigen coast in 1954, as my uncle was lost on it. 
I believe the Northern Crown when she ran aground ,used the inflatable life rafts for the first time,(i maybe wrong)
But do you have any info on where she hit the rocks .
Brian Stoneman


----------



## Steve Farrow

BRIAN STONEMAN said:


> clem
> looking for any info on Northern Crown ,as my father was a deckie learner when it ran aground, also the Laforey sinking off the Norweigen coast in 1954, as my uncle was lost on it.
> I believe the Northern Crown when she ran aground ,used the inflatable life rafts for the first time,(i maybe wrong)
> But do you have any info on where she hit the rocks .
> Brian Stoneman


Hi Brian,

Here is a brief account of the loss of the Northern Crown.........

The NORTHERN CROWN

On October 11th 1956, the steam trawler NORTHERN CROWN was wrecked after stranding on the rocky islet of Eldey, eight miles South West of Reykjanes Point off Iceland’s West coast.
Her lifeboats were washed away and the twenty man crew had only inflatable life-rafts to carry them to safety under the watchful eyes of Skipper Colin Newton.
These new rubber dinghies proved to be very reliable and aided by the Icelandic gunboat THOR, all of the men survived the ordeal.
57 men had been saved by these rubber dinghies over a period of one year with four Humber trawlers being lost; the OSAKO, JANE JORGENSEN, and St. CELESTIN.
The NORTHERN CROWN’S SOS was picked up in Iceland at 6.45 am that morning, and the gun-boat THOR sailed immediately reaching the stricken trawler at 9.20 am. Her engine-room was completely flooded by 8 am, for during the night the weather had been really atrocious with a howling South West gale.
Skipper Colin Newton was acting as relief skipper so her regular skipper August Ebernezersson could take two trips off for a holiday.
As the THOR left the scene with the rescued fishermen the NORTHERN CROWN disappeared beneath the waves.
The following day news reached Grimsby that the trawler had sunk in 60 fathoms of water, but all the men had survived thanks to the gun-boat THOR.
The men were taken to Reykjavik and were soon on their way home.
The story of one mans heroism soon became clear, the Chief Engineer Mr. A. E. Horsley of Daunbney St. Cleethorpes, had been on watch when the ship struck the rocks. Immediately he switched off the three oil- burners as the engine-room began to fill with sea water and oil.
He said “The skipper rang down to go astern and my second engineer Mr. A. Letch managed to pull the lever over. The skipper then rang to go ahead and with a little trouble I had managed to manipulate the stop valve.”
That action almost certainly saved the trawler from hitting the rocks again.
Fireman Mr. Frank Mitchell went so far as to declare of the Chief “If it had not been for him I don’t think we would have been here now.”
He claimed that with the engine-room flooded to a depth of four feet, Mr. Horsley turned the trawler ahead after she had struck the reef. “To do that he had to lie down almost on top of the oil with one hand holding a rail and the other trying to turn the wheel. This by some miracle he managed to do. I think only one man in 1,000 would have attempted to do what our Chief Engineer did.” He told a Grimsby Evening Telegraph reporter.
Even when the men were in the life-rafts their problems weren’t over. Once over the side, the rafts began to drift alongside and very close to the crippled trawler. With a lot of wooden planking hanging down from the damaged trawler, there was a danger of it splitting and puncturing the rubber boats. The crew frantically pushed themselves away from the ship and eventually broke free of her. 
One of the life-rafts capsized and deckhands Douglas Stoneman and John Andrews of Grimsby, were trapped inside the upturned inflatable. Other men who had been thrown into the water, quickly righted the dinghy.
All of the survivors gave glowing praise for these inflatables and stated that without these they would have probably perished.
A reception in Iceland was attended by Captain Kristofersson of the THOR and her other crew members. He was presented with an inscribed silver cigarette box and the Icelandic Life Saving Association received a cheque for £300.
Also there were representatives of the Reykjavikian Skymaster aircraft which led the search, the crew of the MUNINN, which also helped in the search and other officials.
The NORTHERN CROWN was launched on March 17th 1953 at the yard of Cochranes in Selby. She was 180 feet long and had a gross tonnage of 750.
Her only sister-ship was the NORTHERN SCEPTRE

A thumbnail of her is attached.

Hope this helps....

Regards

Steve


----------



## BRIAN STONEMAN

Steve Farrow said:


> Hi Brian,
> 
> Here is a brief account of the loss of the Northern Crown.........
> 
> The NORTHERN CROWN
> 
> On October 11th 1956, the steam trawler NORTHERN CROWN was wrecked after stranding on the rocky islet of Eldey, eight miles South West of Reykjanes Point off Iceland’s West coast.
> Her lifeboats were washed away and the twenty man crew had only inflatable life-rafts to carry them to safety under the watchful eyes of Skipper Colin Newton.
> These new rubber dinghies proved to be very reliable and aided by the Icelandic gunboat THOR, all of the men survived the ordeal.
> 57 men had been saved by these rubber dinghies over a period of one year with four Humber trawlers being lost; the OSAKO, JANE JORGENSEN, and St. CELESTIN.
> The NORTHERN CROWN’S SOS was picked up in Iceland at 6.45 am that morning, and the gun-boat THOR sailed immediately reaching the stricken trawler at 9.20 am. Her engine-room was completely flooded by 8 am, for during the night the weather had been really atrocious with a howling South West gale.
> Skipper Colin Newton was acting as relief skipper so her regular skipper August Ebernezersson could take two trips off for a holiday.
> As the THOR left the scene with the rescued fishermen the NORTHERN CROWN disappeared beneath the waves.
> The following day news reached Grimsby that the trawler had sunk in 60 fathoms of water, but all the men had survived thanks to the gun-boat THOR.
> The men were taken to Reykjavik and were soon on their way home.
> The story of one mans heroism soon became clear, the Chief Engineer Mr. A. E. Horsley of Daunbney St. Cleethorpes, had been on watch when the ship struck the rocks. Immediately he switched off the three oil- burners as the engine-room began to fill with sea water and oil.
> He said “The skipper rang down to go astern and my second engineer Mr. A. Letch managed to pull the lever over. The skipper then rang to go ahead and with a little trouble I had managed to manipulate the stop valve.”
> That action almost certainly saved the trawler from hitting the rocks again.
> Fireman Mr. Frank Mitchell went so far as to declare of the Chief “If it had not been for him I don’t think we would have been here now.”
> He claimed that with the engine-room flooded to a depth of four feet, Mr. Horsley turned the trawler ahead after she had struck the reef. “To do that he had to lie down almost on top of the oil with one hand holding a rail and the other trying to turn the wheel. This by some miracle he managed to do. I think only one man in 1,000 would have attempted to do what our Chief Engineer did.” He told a Grimsby Evening Telegraph reporter.
> Even when the men were in the life-rafts their problems weren’t over. Once over the side, the rafts began to drift alongside and very close to the crippled trawler. With a lot of wooden planking hanging down from the damaged trawler, there was a danger of it splitting and puncturing the rubber boats. The crew frantically pushed themselves away from the ship and eventually broke free of her.
> One of the life-rafts capsized and deckhands Douglas Stoneman and John Andrews of Grimsby, were trapped inside the upturned inflatable. Other men who had been thrown into the water, quickly righted the dinghy.
> All of the survivors gave glowing praise for these inflatables and stated that without these they would have probably perished.
> A reception in Iceland was attended by Captain Kristofersson of the THOR and her other crew members. He was presented with an inscribed silver cigarette box and the Icelandic Life Saving Association received a cheque for £300.
> Also there were representatives of the Reykjavikian Skymaster aircraft which led the search, the crew of the MUNINN, which also helped in the search and other officials.
> The NORTHERN CROWN was launched on March 17th 1953 at the yard of Cochranes in Selby. She was 180 feet long and had a gross tonnage of 750.
> Her only sister-ship was the NORTHERN SCEPTRE
> 
> A thumbnail of her is attached.
> 
> Hope this helps....
> 
> Regards
> 
> Steve


Steve
many thanks for that , it was interesting reading.
Brian


----------



## leewalsh

Hi Steve my name is Lee Walsh from Grimsby do you no any infomation about the ship ZANTO GY106 she sailed out of Grimsby. My brother was on her when see sank his name was Paddy Walsh


----------



## mattarosa

leewalsh said:


> Hi Steve my name is Lee Walsh from Grimsby do you no any infomation about the ship ZANTO GY106 she sailed out of Grimsby. My brother was on her when see sank his name was Paddy Walsh


Hello Lee
I found mention of the Zanto and your brother in the archives of the Guardian newspaper:

Jan 24, 1983
Search for fishing vessel called off
A six-day search for the Grimsby fishing vessel Zanto, missing in the North Sea, has been called off, it was confirmed yesterday.
Aboard the smack were the owner Lars Bunk, aged 33, the mate, Patrick Walsh, aged 25, and deckhand Steven Cooper, 18. The last contact with the boat was when Mr Bunk called his wife on the radio last Monday.

also in the archives of the Times:

Jan 24, 1983
A three-day search for Mr Lars Bunk, age 32, skipper of the 60ft smack Zanto, and Mr Paddy Walsh, age 25, and Mr Steve Cooper, age 18, the crew, all of Grimsby, ended yesterday after a lifebuoy was washed ashore in Denmark.

Jan 29, 1983
A liferaft from the Grimsby fishing vessel Zanto, missing since January 19, has been found drifting off Demark's Jutland coast.

I hope you find this information helpful, and not too upsetting. It is very sad that your brother was lost when he was so young.

Hilary


----------



## davetodd

Lee
I think you will find that Zanto had the number GY306.
Her Official Number was 342752. built in Denmark 1961 42 gross and 27 net tons.
Owned by Delga Fishing Co. Grimsby.
Steve Farrow has posted a photograph of the Zanto.
Go to the Gallery tab then search for Zanto in the Fishing Vessels section.
Grimsby Library (Reference) have one photograph of Zanto.
Regards
Dave


----------



## leewalsh

Thanks very much guys it has been a great help


----------



## Steve Farrow

I am looking for information about a Grimsby seiner, EJLENA GY627 built at Whitby in 1960. On september 18th 1961 a gas explosion blew her bows open, killing the watchman. She was rebuilt and returned fishing. I seem to recall either another explosion or a collision with the Ross Cheetah in the late 1960's or early 70's in the fish docks which almost sunk her. Does anybody have anything on this incident? In August 1970 she collided with the Tor Mercia in the Humber and suffered extensive damage once again!

Steve


----------



## spongebob

Is someone trying to sell something?


----------



## tunatownshipwreck

bob jenkins said:


> Is someone trying to sell something?


Another spammer has been shot down. (K)


----------



## mattarosa

*Chilian*

Good morning everyone, hope your weekend has started well.

Does anyone have any details of the Grimsby steam trawler Chilian please? I have got a note that Chilian was wrecked on Filey Brigg in 1894 but I don't have the trawler on my list.

Hilary


----------



## aavh

Hope this helps, can give some details of loss if required.
Andy

*Chilian: (*GY 564) (1894 – 1894)
O.N. 99719: 161g 59n 101.0 x 20.5 x 10.9 feet
T.3-cyl

1894: Launched by Edwards Bros North Shields (Yd. No 485) for Co op Box & Fishing Carrying Co Ltd Grimsby as *“Chilian”* GY 564. 01.1894: Completed.01.1894: Registered at Grimsby GY 564.27.01.1894: Ran trials. 08.04.1894: Lost wrecked on Filey Brigg. Skipper J W Little & 5 crewmen lost.


----------



## mattarosa

aavh said:


> Hope this helps, can give some details of loss if required.
> Andy
> 
> *Chilian: (*GY 564) (1894 – 1894)
> O.N. 99719: 161g 59n 101.0 x 20.5 x 10.9 feet
> T.3-cyl
> 
> 1894: Launched by Edwards Bros North Shields (Yd. No 485) for Co op Box & Fishing Carrying Co Ltd Grimsby as *“Chilian”* GY 564. 01.1894: Completed.01.1894: Registered at Grimsby GY 564.27.01.1894: Ran trials. 08.04.1894: Lost wrecked on Filey Brigg. Skipper J W Little & 5 crewmen lost.



Thanks, Andy. I read about the loss in the Guardian archive. I suppose I did not have Chilian on my list because of the very brief life of the trawler. It is sad that what must have taken many many manhours to build came to such a tragic end so soon after the launch.
Hilary


----------



## mattarosa

*Gy216*

I'm having a bit of a sort out today of things I have noted in passing but not been sure what to do with. 

I must have seen this postcard on ebay but did not make a note of the date. Do you think this is Cineraria built 1889? If not, what.

Any help gratefully received.

Hilary


----------



## mattarosa

*Yet another query - GY440*

I don't know where this photo came from, I must have noted it because it was a mystery (to me). Clearly the number is GY440 but I made a note of the name Leason. Is there such a trawler? If not, does anyone know what trawler this is, please?

Time for a tea-break, I think!
Hilary


----------



## davetodd

GY 440
Two options I have found.
First one is Cepheus O.N.9947 on Grimsby register from 1892 to 1916. ( Unlikely)
Second is Leason built 1931 Esbjerg Denmark 30 tons Owner Sonborg Fishing Co. Looks like a probable.

GY216
Three with this number. None seem probable.
Martin Luther built 1867 59 tons
Sir Henry Havelock on Grimsby register from 1869 to 1886
and finally Cineraria O.N.96201 on Grimsby register from 1889 to 1915
built Beverley 1889 of iron 81 tons net. Owner North Eastern S.F.Co.Ltd Grimsby.
Lost 1915

regards
Dave


----------



## mattarosa

davetodd said:


> GY 440
> Two options I have found.
> First one is Cepheus O.N.9947 on Grimsby register from 1892 to 1916. ( Unlikely)
> Second is Leason built 1931 Esbjerg Denmark 30 tons Owner Sonborg Fishing Co. Looks like a probable.
> 
> GY216
> Three with this number. None seem probable.
> Martin Luther built 1867 59 tons
> Sir Henry Havelock on Grimsby register from 1869 to 1886
> and finally Cineraria O.N.96201 on Grimsby register from 1889 to 1915
> built Beverley 1889 of iron 81 tons net. Owner North Eastern S.F.Co.Ltd Grimsby.
> Lost 1915
> 
> regards
> Dave


Many thanks, Dave, you are always very helpful. Leason wasn't on my list, so that's two new ones (to me) today!

I'll leave a question mark on the GY216. I used to Mablethorpe for days out when I was a kid. I wonder why GY216 (whoever she is) is lying on the beach?

Hilary


----------



## billblow

Hilary
GY 216 North Star (AMV) 
Owner in 1947 John H. Huxley and Other
1.58 tons
Sorry don’t know anything else about her.
Billblow


----------



## mattarosa

billblow said:


> Hilary
> GY 216 North Star (AMV)
> Owner in 1947 John H. Huxley and Other
> 1.58 tons
> Sorry don’t know anything else about her.
> Billblow


Thanks, Bill. At least she isn't a nameless foundling any more!

Hilary


----------



## Roger Griffiths

Hilary,
GY216 GRACE DARLING (AMV) on GY register 5/10/1935 1.58 tons.

Suggest renamed NORTH STAR as posted by Bill. Date unknown.

GY440 SANTORA 132347 ex YH837 on GY register 1/6/1927 sold Belgium 21/1/1936 90.32 tons Very doubtful as the vessel pictured appears to have radar.

I have CEPHEUS as O/N 99667

regards
Roger


----------



## davetodd

"I have CEPHEUS as O/N 99667"

regards
Roger

Quite right Roger, Cepheus O.N.99667.
My apologies for my error and thanks for the correction.
Regards
Dave


----------



## mattarosa

Roger Griffiths said:


> Hilary,
> GY216 GRACE DARLING (AMV) on GY register 5/10/1935 1.58 tons.
> 
> Suggest renamed NORTH STAR as posted by Bill. Date unknown.
> 
> GY440 SANTORA 132347 ex YH837 on GY register 1/6/1927 sold Belgium 21/1/1936 90.32 tons Very doubtful as the vessel pictured appears to have radar.
> 
> I have CEPHEUS as O/N 99667
> 
> regards
> Roger


Thanks for the info, Roger, much appreciated.
Hilary


----------



## David Paterson

Dear Clem
Hi There my name is David Paterson and was the R/O on the Aldershot in the mid 1960s...I was there for about 16 months...The skipper was Les ***by who was the son in law of the famous skipper Tubby Norton ....The mate was Alfie Dales... and Chief Engineer was called Gibbons I thing...better known as Dr Diesel...I organised the exchange of plaque / and presentation of an oil painting od the ship with Aldershot Football Club .
I was on the Aldershot when we were arrested for illegal fishing off the west coast of Iceland...The skipper was jailed for 6 months working on the farm ...les.s Zodiac car had its spot and fog lamps pinched at Glasgow airport whiest his wife went over to see him that really annoyed him.....The Aldershot was had a good crew and made some very good trips ....I wanted a change and Marconi sent me up to Aberdeen to do some releif trips ...I sailed on the Ben Heilem and the Ben Gairn and also the Admiral Burnett known as the submarine .....going through the Pentland it spent more time under the water than on it ... It was the worst sea ship I ever saled on.

Best Regards......David Paterson


----------



## codex47

*Guava*

Does anybody have any info on the guava/h m s guave,full history and if possable crew lists[=P]


----------



## TSJ59

Hello - Some info/history for starters but alas no crew lists:

_M.T. British Columbia GY 153_
134 gt. 100.8ft. x 21.1ft. O.N. 162901
Built 1935 by Richardsons, Lowestoft. for Grimsby Motor Trawlers. 
Jun.1935 Registered _British Columbia GY 153_ (Gy Motor Twlrs.)
Nov.1939 Purchased by Royal Navy - renamed _*Guarva*_ and fitted out as an 
anti-submarine trawler, 1 x 6 pounder, 1 x Machine gun.
Sold 1945 and reverted to _British Columbia_.

Cheers, Terry


----------



## Roger Griffiths

Theres an old thread on this subject
http://www.shipsnostalgia.com/showthread.php?p=130124&highlight=british+columbia#post130124

Crew agreements are in National archives at Kew or the Memorial University of Newfoundland depending on date. If you are looking for a crewlist whilst she was RN forget it.

Roger


----------



## mattarosa

*Worlds largest trawler in 1913*

Attached is a snippet from a New Zealand newspaper reporting the arrival in May 1913 of the "worlds largest trawler" at Grimsby.

Does anyone know what trawler this was?

Hilary


----------



## davetodd

That would be the PASSING GY877 ON 135966 built 1913 at Beverley for Alec Black.
See more at:-

http://www.shipsnostalgia.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=84824

Dave


----------



## codex47

Many Thanks Terry


----------



## Steve Farrow

mattarosa said:


> Good morning everyone, hope your weekend has started well.
> 
> Does anyone have any details of the Grimsby steam trawler Chilian please? I have got a note that Chilian was wrecked on Filey Brigg in 1894 but I don't have the trawler on my list.
> 
> Hilary


Hi Hilary,

I have just spotted your post about the CHILIAN and I have attached photos of the builders model that is in the Doughty Collection in Grimsby, and one of her aground at Filey Brigg.
It seems that her maiden voyage early in 1894, was a success, for she landed 180 boxes of haddock, about 300 score of cod, 60 boxes of plaice besides other fish.

Regards

Steve


----------



## TSJ59

Hi,
_Passing GY 877_ was probably the largest trawler at that date, (Launched 05/06/1913), 160 ft, 459 gt. but the news item has the dimensions (150 ft, 395 gt.) of _Sweeper GY 853_ also built by CW&G for South Western Steam Fishing Co. Ltd. Launched 24/02/1914. Within a few months three more 160 ft. trawlers were launched.
Alec Black’s _Tervani GY 10_, (457 gt.), South Western Steam Fishing Co. Ltd.’s _Ilustra GY127_, (448 gt.) and _The Banyers GY 128_, (448 gt.).

Cheers, Terry


----------



## mattarosa

davetodd said:


> That would be the PASSING GY877 ON 135966 built 1913 at Beverley for Alec Black.
> See more at:-
> 
> http://www.shipsnostalgia.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=84824
> 
> Dave


Many thanks, Dave. You've probably gathered that I like to read old newspaper articles to find out more about the fishing industry in Grimsby. At the moment I am reading extracts that I found on the Internet from New Zealand newspapers. I have found so often that Grimsby led the world in the industry in different ways. I have read about Grimsby trawlermen going to different parts of the globe to deliver trawlers or help establish or enhance the fishing industries of other countries. I have just read of the Grimsby crew who took a trawler called Nora Niven to New Zealand (in 1907, I think). I gather that the fishing industry is all but gone in Grimsby, but I hope its legacy lives on in other places.

Hilary


----------



## mattarosa

davetodd said:


> That would be the PASSING GY877 ON 135966 built 1913 at Beverley for Alec Black.
> See more at:-
> 
> http://www.shipsnostalgia.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=84824
> 
> Dave


I forgot to say thank you for the link to the lovely picture.
Hilary


----------



## mattarosa

Steve Farrow said:


> Hi Hilary,
> 
> I have just spotted your post about the CHILIAN and I have attached photos of the builders model that is in the Doughty Collection in Grimsby, and one of her aground at Filey Brigg.
> It seems that her maiden voyage early in 1894, was a success, for she landed 180 boxes of haddock, about 300 score of cod, 60 boxes of plaice besides other fish.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Steve


Steve
Thank you as always for your generosity in sharing pictures and information. Could you tell me more about the Doughty Collection? I have heard of it and I may even have a booklet about it somewhere in my collection, but a few years ago I asked a friend to go and see what there was and he said the Doughty Museum (I think that was the name) was closed and the collections were inaccessible.
Hilary


----------



## mattarosa

TSJ59 said:


> Hi,
> _Passing GY 877_ was probably the largest trawler at that date, (Launched 05/06/1913), 160 ft, 459 gt. but the news item has the dimensions (150 ft, 395 gt.) of _Sweeper GY 853_ also built by CW&G for South Western Steam Fishing Co. Ltd. Launched 24/02/1914. Within a few months three more 160 ft. trawlers were launched.
> Alec Black’s _Tervani GY 10_, (457 gt.), South Western Steam Fishing Co. Ltd.’s _Ilustra GY127_, (448 gt.) and _The Banyers GY 128_, (448 gt.).
> 
> Cheers, Terry


Terry
Thank you for the info. I'm quite surprised they reported this at all in a NZ newspaper, presumably NZ had a healthy interest in the fishing industry.
Hilary


----------



## davetodd

TSJ59 said:


> Hi,
> _Passing GY 877_ was probably the largest trawler at that date, (Launched 05/06/1913), 160 ft, 459 gt. but the news item has the dimensions (150 ft, 395 gt.) of _Sweeper GY 853_ also built by CW&G for South Western Steam Fishing Co. Ltd. Launched 24/02/1914. Within a few months three more 160 ft. trawlers were launched.
> Alec Black’s _Tervani GY 10_, (457 gt.), South Western Steam Fishing Co. Ltd.’s _Ilustra GY127_, (448 gt.) and _The Banyers GY 128_, (448 gt.).
> 
> Cheers, Terry


Quite right Terry.
The newspaper date 10th June 1913 confirms that it could not be PASSING.
Launched 5th June 1913 completed 21st Aug. 1913.
So it must be SWEEPER launched 24 Feb. 1913 completed 8th May 1913.
Regards
Dave


----------



## Steve Farrow

mattarosa said:


> Steve
> Thank you as always for your generosity in sharing pictures and information. Could you tell me more about the Doughty Collection? I have heard of it and I may even have a booklet about it somewhere in my collection, but a few years ago I asked a friend to go and see what there was and he said the Doughty Museum (I think that was the name) was closed and the collections were inaccessible.
> Hilary


Hi Hilary,

This piece from the Forward in the Doughty......

"The Doughty Museum, situated in Town Hall Square, Grimsby, is named after Wilfred Vere Doughty, its principle benefactor.
Mr. Doughty, who was the son of Sir George Doughty, spent his youth and early years in Grimsby, but later lived in Hertfordshire. When he died at Ikleford Manor, Hitchin, in 1941, he bequeathed to the borough of Grimsby his large collection of ship models, marine paintings and china. For a number of years it was not possible to display this bequest, but during 1958 the old Corporation Grammar School for Girls was converted into a museum and was formally opened on October 2nd 1958 by Mrs. M. V. Doughty, the donor's widow.
As the Doughty Museum is not large enough to contain all the ship models at one time the display is constantly being changed and any of the models mentioned in this catalogue which may not be on view may be examined on application.
This catalogue is largely the result of painstaking research by Mr. D. Boswell, of the staff of the Public Library, and while every attempt has been made to ensure the accuracy of the text, any comments or additional information would be welcomed."

Signed Edward H. Trevitt, Borough Librarian, 

April 1964

...................................

Some years later, this building was closed and the models moved to various locations with little or no access to the public. Eventually some were placed on show in the Welholme Galleries, a dissused church with no controlled heating if any at all. Paintings and models began to fall into disrepair. At one stage, local ship model makers began some restoration work but were basically thrown out. 
Grimsby still has no public art gallery or museum but some of the Doughty Collection are in the Fishing heritage Centre. There is a charge to visit this building. Across the Humber in Hull it is a different story, with free access to the excellent Ferens Art Gallery and the nearby Maritime museum.

One excellent facility that we do have is our main Public Library which houses a very comprehensive Fishing Reference section, containing thousands of photographs and relative articles relating to the industry over the years, and huge credit must go to Dave Todd who beavers away for many hours cataloguing and checking historical facts.

Regards

Steve


----------



## birgir

Is there an error in the C.W.&G. book? It lists the yard no;261A, 261B, and 262 (Sweeper) all completed out of sequence, in 1914, a year late compared to what one would expect. It was not unknown for yard nos being used out of sequence, the most glaring examples being no; 144 (Thuringia) and 146 (Sargon), which were six years late.

Passing was certainly not the largest trawler in the world, when completed. The French had bypassed 160 feet years before, and some of the big french trawlers were built in Britain, e.g. the Canada by Cochrane&sons in 1909.

Steve;
The ship models in the Doughty collection. Are they all models of ships built for Consols, or did he collect models from other companies?

Birgir Thorisson


----------



## Steve Farrow

birgir said:


> Is there an error in the C.W.&G. book? It lists the yard no;261A, 261B, and 262 (Sweeper) all completed out of sequence, in 1914, a year late compared to what one would expect. It was not unknown for yard nos being used out of sequence, the most glaring examples being no; 144 (Thuringia) and 146 (Sargon), which were six years late.
> 
> Passing was certainly not the largest trawler in the world, when completed. The French had bypassed 160 feet years before, and some of the big french trawlers were built in Britain, e.g. the Canada by Cochrane&sons in 1909.
> 
> Steve;
> The ship models in the Doughty collection. Are they all models of ships built for Consols, or did he collect models from other companies?
> 
> Birgir Thorisson


Birgir,

The Doughty Collection consisted of trawlers owned by various companies, also models of sailing smacks, shrimpers, zulu's, herring boats etc. Sailing ships were also in this fine display.....clippers, barques, sailing barges etc.
There are many British and French naval warships some of the later made by French prisoners of war out of bone between 1790-1815.
The largest model in the collection is the 12 feet long P & O liner NARKUNDA, a Harland & Wolff builders model. The ship herself was attacked by aircraft and sunk on the 14th November 1942 near Cape Carbo, North Africa. This model is on display in the Fishing Heritage Centre here in GY.

Regards

Steve


----------



## mattarosa

Steve Farrow said:


> Hi Hilary,
> 
> This piece from the Forward in the Doughty...
> 
> ...Grimsby still has no public art gallery or museum but some of the Doughty Collection are in the Fishing heritage Centre. There is a charge to visit this building. Across the Humber in Hull it is a different story, with free access to the excellent Ferens Art Gallery and the nearby Maritime museum.
> 
> One excellent facility that we do have is our main Public Library which houses a very comprehensive Fishing Reference section, containing thousands of photographs and relative articles relating to the industry over the years, and huge credit must go to Dave Todd who beavers away for many hours cataloguing and checking historical facts.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Steve


Thanks for all the info, Steve. It is a shame that more has not been done to preserve Grimsby's proud past. Thank goodness for people like you and Dave. 

As you know I've got my own little "art gallery" here in my house, my "collection" comprising three of your paintings!


Hilary


----------



## mattarosa

*Salvia?*

Hello everyone

I have been reading about the sinking of the emigrant steamship Norge in 1904 because I saw a photo of some of the survivors on board a Grimsby trawler for sale on ebay.

In the various newspapers and on the various sites that I have read about the Norge, the Grimsby trawler is variously described as Salvia, Silvia and Sylvia.

I think Salvia is correct, but I am not sure. Is anyone able to confirm this please and tell me the registration number and anything else about the trawler?

I have attached the picture of the survivors. The description was Danish ship survivors but I think the Norge was Norwegian.

Hilary


----------



## davetodd

Hilary,
You are probably correct with the name Salvia.
From Olsen's 1903,1904,1912 and 1915 this vessel is given as:-
SALVIA GY1161 ON 113171 Call Letters RPLF built 1900 Grimsby
Owner North Eastern S.F.Co.Ltd. Grimsby
From the N.E.Lincs Archive site the following:-
SALVIA 1904 Owner Sir George Doughty Skipper F.Miles Certificate No. 6442
1905 same skipper 
Grimsby register has her from 1900 to 1914.
Cox's list also from 1900 to 1914 then listed as lost.

Could not find Sylvia as GY registered vessel, but there was a Hull ship SYLVIA H439 ON 109094 built 1898 at Beverley Owner Armitage S.T.Co.Ltd. Hull

No Silvia I'm afraid
Regards
Dave


----------



## mattarosa

davetodd said:


> Hilary,
> You are probably correct with the name Salvia.
> From Olsen's 1903,1904,1912 and 1915 this vessel is given as:-
> SALVIA GY1161 ON 113171 Call Letters RPLF built 1900 Grimsby
> Owner North Eastern S.F.Co.Ltd. Grimsby
> From the N.E.Lincs Archive site the following:-
> SALVIA 1904 Owner Sir George Doughty Skipper F.Miles Certificate No. 6442
> 1905 same skipper
> Grimsby register has her from 1900 to 1914.
> Cox's list also from 1900 to 1914 then listed as lost.
> 
> Could not find Sylvia as GY registered vessel, but there was a Hull ship SYLVIA H439 ON 109094 built 1898 at Beverley Owner Armitage S.T.Co.Ltd. Hull
> 
> No Silvia I'm afraid
> Regards
> Dave


Thanks, again, Dave. I hope no one minds my frequent questions. I read things and get interested.... You and the other members here never fail to shed some light.

Hilary


----------



## davetodd

Hilary
All members are usually helpful I'm sure.
Keep sending your requests and observations.
Some of those press reports can be quite useful to others.
Dave


----------



## mattarosa

*Marylebone*



davetodd said:


> Hilary
> All members are usually helpful I'm sure.
> Keep sending your requests and observations..
> Dave


Thanks Dave. Here's another one then, something else seen on ebay, a picture of the crew of a trawler called Marylebone. Another one not on my list. Any details?

Hilary


----------



## billblow

Hilary
This post card is in the Grimsby Evening Telegraphs Roy Sharkey collection and also called the crew of the Grimsby Trawler Marylebone. ! 
Doesn't look like a trawler to me and to my knowledge no Grimsby steam trawler of that name.
Billblow


----------



## billblow

Hilary
Just Googled up the fact that SS Marylebone of Grimsby was a Great Central Railway Company steamer.
Some one may tell us more
Billblow


----------



## davetodd

Hilary
Bill is correct.
Marylebone was built in 1906 at Cammel Laird Birkenhead for Great Central Railway.
1972 tons O.N.123594.
She operated as passenger/cargo ship between Grimsby and the Continent.
She was registered in Grimsby twice. First fom 1906 to 1911 and then from 1911 to 1934.
This, I think, means a change of ownership in 1911.
Not a trawler and would not have a "GY number"
Interesting photo though!
Dave


----------



## mattarosa

*Marylebone*

Thanks Bill and Dave, another "mystery" solved. You might gather I have seen very few trawlers, in fact only one, I once saw the Lydia Eva at Lowestoft when I went there to visit the RNPS museum

Hilary


----------



## birgir

A thought about pictures.

Was just looking at the Bosun´s watch update section.
Some trawlers have many pictures published online. Others have none. Even ships, like the Great Admiral who had half a century of history in the major ports. I wonder why.

Birgir Thorisson.


----------



## gil mayes

Birgir
Thanks to SN member Angus Mac Kinnon I have been able to up date details of all the Fleetwood vessels broken up at Troon, hence the up date on GREAT ADMIRAL. Sadly photographs of this vessel probably exist but some collectors are reluctant to have them posted on the net. Slowly however we are building up our photographic record and I appeal to anyone who has photographs of vessels that fished from Fleetwood, whether during their time at the port or at other ports, to contact the administrator and Jim will be happy to post with due credit and watermark safeguard if required. The same applies to the FMHT motor trawler site.
Gil.


----------



## birgir

Gil.
What I was really thinking was that the pictures in circulation are a kind of special (abnormal). That there were special reasons (abnormal) for taking pictures of (some) trawlers, and collecting them. Are they the products of a few photographers, who made pics for certain clients? 
(E.g. Marr, or Boston´s ships well covered. Storr´s or Basckomb´s not photographed.) 
To compare with the local situation here in Iceland. The wast majority of published pictures of steam trawlers before WW2 are taken by one father/son team of professional photographers, (Magnús Ólafsson and Ólafur Magnússon) and one amateur photographer, (Guðbjartur Ásgeirsson). Both are copyright by the museums who hold the respective collections. (which is one reason why I do not post pics here. The other is lack of scanning equipment.)

Birgir Thorisson.


----------



## gil mayes

Sorry for the delay in responding, Birgir. I am not really the one to ask about photographers as I have tended to concentrate on the vessel history rather than collect photographs. Others may be able to take up your points.
Gil.


----------



## birgir

That is okay Gil. 
There are many questions that will remain without answer. 

But you may know the answer to this one. The year is 1919, in Grimsby. Two fishing companies; Equitable and Penguin SFC. Who owned them? 
(And does anyone know the name Bookless, among Grimsby, or Fleetwood trawler owners? Bookless is of course Aberdeen, but do they show up in either Grimsby or Fleetwood?).

Birgir Thorisson


----------



## donald mckay

Hi Birgir In the late 1920s Bookless were also involved in smaller scale vessels such as some of the small 40ft seiners that were starting to develop the seine net fishing in such places as Helmsdale The Beatrice Caroline Sykes WK35 was one that comes to mind


----------



## gil mayes

Cannot answer the Grimsby question though Penguin Fishing Co Ltd in 1917 was one of the Scarborough Johnsons companies owning the MAJESTIC (98714)(GY1054).
Graham Atkinson did find a company address for the South Fleetwood Fishing Co Ltd which was associated with Bookless Bros; 13 St. Helens Place, London EC3 with an A. Reid as manager. We have found no Fleetwood connection but the three vessels that Bookless chartered, previously at Fleetwood, MARY WETHERLY (123388)(GN5), VALE OF CLYDE (127143)(A192) and DEWSLAND (127405)(M220) were all three owned by Maurice Wilkins & George Moreland, Manchester, and this may be a lead for future research.
Interesting about the seiner connection, Donald.
Gil.


----------



## birgir

When Bookless declared bankruptcy in Iceland, ( and left) in november 1922, he left behind at least two scottish motor drifters, Midlothian, and Morning Star.
The reason for my question about the Penguin SFC, was that Cox lists it as owner of the Itonian in 1919, which an icelandic newspaper reports that Bookless owned. The trawler operated for a while that year, from the Bookless station in Hafnarfjordur. 
The trawler Bona Dea (Equitable SFC) was also landing it´s catches in Iceland, according to the period newspapers, (which have just become available online). The problem is that the daily accounts of ships coming and leaving are not necessarily based on anything but hearsay about the ownership, or activity. And on occasions, they can get things spectacularly wrong. E.g. In november 1911, the trawler Lord Nelson RE 140 (ex GY 194) sank following a collision with an Aberdeen trawler named Northman. A newspaper reported that the Lord Nelson was run down by a large Norvegian vessel. Confusion understandable.
On that case, there responsibility for the collision went to court, in Scotland. According to a 1913 icelandic newsreport, the Northman was found to be wholly at fault, but was only made to pay 1/5 of the damage caused, because scottish law limited damages to the value of the ship itself. According to that, the Northman was only worth 1500 pounds. This story doesn´t seem credible to me.
Does anyone know what they were talking about?

Birgir Thorisson.


----------



## mattarosa

*Questions*

Hello everyone, it's the weekend again!

A couple more queries from my reading:

What is a pocket trawler? I assume it is a small one, but how small, how many etc?

What is a wreck-netter, please.

Thanks
Hilary


----------



## aavh

If you look here you will see the history of the original pocket trawlers


http://www.berwickshipyard.com/

Andy


----------



## mattarosa

aavh said:


> If you look here you will see the history of the original pocket trawlers
> 
> 
> http://www.berwickshipyard.com/
> 
> Andy


Andy
Thank you for the link to a very interesting site.

Hilary


----------



## mattarosa

*Zebra*

Good morning all

Hope you are enjoying the weekend. It's ark-building weather here where I am.

I have attached a pic of a painting for sale on ebay which is described as the Zebra of Grimsby. Do you think it is the Ross Zebra?

The artist is stated to be G. Murray.

Hilary


----------



## mattarosa

*Jubilee Quest GY900*

I have been reading quite a lot about this, the first new trawler for Grimsby in more than 10 years.

Someone posted this link before and it was fantastic for me to see how a trawler is built from the first delivery of steel to the launch.

http://s109678751.websitehome.co.uk/newbuilds.htm

Did anyone see her recently in Grimsby after she landed her first catch (300 boxes for £29,000+ according to reports) when she was named and blessed?

I do have a question - as always - I read that the existing Jubilee Quest GY900 was to be renamed Jubilee Spirit. Does anyone know what the GY number of Jubilee Spirit is and if/when it happened?

Hilary


----------



## donald mckay

Hilary I see she was built for the "Olbek" fishing company ...Now she was a bonny boat in her original Thomsons configuration !!!


----------



## timo

Mattarosa, the picture of the new Jubilee Quest in my gallery is taken the day after she landed her first trip in Grimsby,(about 2 days before she was named and blessed), the old Jubilee Quest was renamed Jubilee Spirit about 4 weeks before the new Quest arrived in Grimsby, I'm not sure of her reg number, hav'nt seen her in dock for a while.


----------



## davetodd

mattarosa said:


> Good morning all
> 
> Hope you are enjoying the weekend. It's ark-building weather here where I am.
> 
> I have attached a pic of a painting for sale on ebay which is described as the Zebra of Grimsby. Do you think it is the Ross Zebra?
> 
> The artist is stated to be G. Murray.
> 
> Hilary


Hilary
There was a Grimsby fishing vessel named Zebra.
Her O.N. was 92806 and appeared on the GY reigstry from 1886 to 1898.

The Ross Zebra GY653 O.N.301845 built 1960 at Selby.

The choice is yours (Jester) 

Regards 
Dave


----------



## billblow

Hilary
I have had a look on ebay, yes it is supposed to be the Ross Zebra but a poor painting as I am fairly sure she had a square transom stern.
Jimmy Sheader her first skipper has a wonderful painting of her.
Billblow


----------



## Steve Farrow

Hilary,

Bill is right, the Ross Zebra did have a transom stern! I suspect the painting owned by Jimmy Sheader was one of George Wiseman's.......lucky man!

Regards

Steve


----------



## mattarosa

donald mckay said:


> Hilary I see she was built for the "Olbek" fishing company ...Now she was a bonny boat in her original Thomsons configuration !!!


Hi Donald
I'm not familiar with Thomsons, is that a fishing company? I have seen a picture of a trawler called Olbek but it looked as if it had a hard life!

Hilary


----------



## mattarosa

timo said:


> Mattarosa, the picture of the new Jubilee Quest in my gallery is taken the day after she landed her first trip in Grimsby,(about 2 days before she was named and blessed), the old Jubilee Quest was renamed Jubilee Spirit about 4 weeks before the new Quest arrived in Grimsby, I'm not sure of her reg number, hav'nt seen her in dock for a while.


Timo
If you do see her and you have a camera in your hand....

Great pics of the Jubilee Quest. I hope the new trawler does really well, the first trip seems to have gone OK.

Hilary


----------



## mattarosa

davetodd said:


> The choice is yours (Jester)
> 
> Regards
> Dave



Dave
I'm going to defer to the superior knowledge of Bill and Steve. I wouldn't know a transom stern from any other kind, but I guess they are saying the painting is not a very good likeness of the Ross Zebra. I didn't think it was that bad a painting of a trawler, but I wasn't planning on buying it anyway. I'm a Steve Farrow fan, having got three of his in my house.

Hilary


----------



## donald mckay

Hi Hilary Thomsons of Buckie were the builders of the Olbek She was a very nice model of an anchor seiner she fished in the Moray Firth a fair bit in the 60s landing in Wick and Buckie


----------



## davetodd

mattarosa said:


> Dave
> I'm going to defer to the superior knowledge of Bill and Steve. I wouldn't know a transom stern from any other kind, but I guess they are saying the painting is not a very good likeness of the Ross Zebra. I didn't think it was that bad a painting of a trawler, but I wasn't planning on buying it anyway. I'm a Steve Farrow fan, having got three of his in my house.
> 
> Hilary


Hilary
There are a few good photographs in the gallery for Ross Zebra.
There you can see that a "Transom" stern is of a "flat" design as opposed to a rounded stern shape, which were more common.
The photographs will also show that some artistic licence has been applied to the painting but that does not detract from the "atmosphere" of it.
The sky certainly gives an impression of bad weather.

Dave


----------



## davetodd

mattarosa said:


> Hi Donald
> I'm not familiar with Thomsons, is that a fishing company? I have seen a picture of a trawler called Olbek but it looked as if it had a hard life!
> 
> Hilary


Yesterday's Fishing News has a small article on the Jubilee Quest and apparently, the Oblek Fishing Company is a partnership between skippers Graham Hall and Ross Crooks, together with Jubilee Fishing Co.
The newspaper also states:- "Built at Whitby by Parkol Marine Engineering to an S.C.McAllister design."
Regards
Dave


----------



## mattarosa

davetodd said:


> Hilary
> There are a few good photographs in the gallery for Ross Zebra.
> There you can see that a "Transom" stern is of a "flat" design as opposed to a rounded stern shape, which were more common.
> 
> Thanks for that, Dave. I have looked at the photos and can definitely see what you mean. I bet I am the only one among my friends who knows what a transom stern is! I am already regarded as a bit strange because I pin pictures of trawlers and fishermen on my office wall.


----------



## mattarosa

davetodd said:


> Yesterday's Fishing News has a small article on the Jubilee Quest and apparently, the Oblek Fishing Company is a partnership between skippers Graham Hall and Ross Crooks, together with Jubilee Fishing Co.
> The newspaper also states:- "Built at Whitby by Parkol Marine Engineering to an S.C.McAllister design."
> Regards
> Dave


I have attached a pic of the owners who, I gather, have said if JQ is successful, they may consider another new one in a couple of years.

I was surprised no one on here mentioned Jubilee Quest (unless I missed it) as it seems like an exciting development for Grimsby.


----------



## mattarosa

*Gy158*

Does anyone know the name of this one (attached), which appears to be GY158? I don't know the date of the photo.

Thanks
Hilary


----------



## davetodd

mattarosa said:


> Does anyone know the name of this one (attached), which appears to be GY158? I don't know the date of the photo.
> 
> Thanks
> Hilary


Likely to be the Paul Anthony GY158 built 1970 in Denmark. Owner A.Richardson.

Dave


----------



## Steve Farrow

mattarosa said:


> Hi Donald
> I'm not familiar with Thomsons, is that a fishing company? I have seen a picture of a trawler called Olbek but it looked as if it had a hard life!
> 
> Hilary


Hilary, I have posted a photo of the OLBEK in the Gallery.......went under the chain-saw some time ago.

Regards

Steve


----------



## Steve Farrow

*Transom stern*

Hilary,

Here is a good example of a transom stern! The first British trawler to have one...the KELVIN

Steve


----------



## donald mckay

Hi Steve / Hillary I have a pic of the Olbek with original wheelhouse etc somewhere It suited her much better


----------



## wully farquhar

davetodd said:


> Likely to be the Paul Anthony GY158 built 1970 in Denmark. Owner A.Richardson.
> 
> Dave


Dave,The Paul Anthony sunk north of Sule Skerry west of the Orkneys around the seventies sometime(Cloud) she was pairing with the Ocean Reward when the two came together(shall we say with a bang!!)resulting in both vessels sinking,all hands were saved.
Wully,(Thumb)


----------



## davetodd

Wully, thanks for the info.
Would the Ocean Reward be the 1959 Arbroath built boat?
Do you have a PRN for her?
Dave


----------



## mattarosa

Steve Farrow said:


> Hilary, I have posted a photo of the OLBEK in the Gallery.......went under the chain-saw some time ago.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Steve


Thanks for this, Steve. It's a great photograph, and Olbek definitely looks as if it has had a hard life!
Hilary


----------



## mattarosa

Steve Farrow said:


> Hilary,
> 
> Here is a good example of a transom stern! The first British trawler to have one...the KELVIN
> 
> Steve


Steve
Thanks again, that makes everything very clear. An interesting (to me) question arises. Who designs trawlers? I have heard of naval architects so I suppose there are similarly qualified people working on other types of boat/ship? Can you recognise the origin (designer?) of a trawler from its design the way you can with other design areas (building architecture, dress design etc) and are there Frank Lloyd Wrights of trawler design - I mean really influential and famous ones?

Hilary


----------



## mattarosa

davetodd said:


> Likely to be the Paul Anthony GY158 built 1970 in Denmark. Owner A.Richardson.
> 
> Dave


Thanks, Dave. I thought of that one but looking at the name on the side, it looks like a single word, though it is unreadable. Perhaps this is just a factor of the angle the picture was taken from? Certainly none of the other GY158s I am aware of are called by a single word that looks long enough to match this.

Hilary


----------



## wully farquhar

davetodd said:


> Wully, thanks for the info.
> Would the Ocean Reward be the 1959 Arbroath built boat?
> Do you have a PRN for her?
> Dave


Correct Dave,her number KY205


----------



## davetodd

Thanks wully
Dave


----------



## mattarosa

*Hulk*

Does anyone know which Grimsby trawler this newspaper article refers to?

This picture was in the Daily Mirror on 9 August 1932.

Thanks
Hilary


----------



## birgir

Re: SARGON GY 858.

The Sargon from Grimsby ran aground inside Patreksfjordur, west end of Iceland, on december 1. 1948. Eleven crew were lost, six saved. The episode is mostly remembered because the rescue was filmed, and the film used for the re-enactment of the rescue of 12 of 15 crewmembers of the trawler Dhoon from Fleetwood, a year earlier.
There has always been a shadow over the Sargon-affair. I was born in the area in 1963, and as a youngster, I learned that there was some secret associeted with the event, that was not spoken about.
A few days ago, a new book was published about the Dhoon-rescue here in Iceland. In passing, the secret of the Sargon was divulged. And the secret is, that the rescuers were certain, after boarding the vessel to collect the bodies, that at least one, maybe more, of the crew were left onboard the ship, alive, despite the assurance by the last man rescued, that he had made sure that there was no-one left alive onboard.

Birgir Thorisson


----------



## Don Armour

mattarosa said:


> Good morning all
> 
> Hope you are enjoying the weekend. It's ark-building weather here where I am.
> 
> I have attached a pic of a painting for sale on ebay which is described as the Zebra of Grimsby. Do you think it is the Ross Zebra?
> 
> The artist is stated to be G. Murray.
> 
> Hilary


The painting is almost certainly a representation of the Ross Zebra, the funnel marking is the "house" flag of Ross Group.


----------



## camerabridge

*Sargon GY858*



birgir said:


> Re: SARGON GY 858.
> 
> The Sargon from Grimsby ran aground inside Patreksfjordur, west end of Iceland, on december 1. 1948. Eleven crew were lost, six saved. The episode is mostly remembered because the rescue was filmed, and the film used for the re-enactment of the rescue of 12 of 15 crewmembers of the trawler Dhoon from Fleetwood, a year earlier.
> There has always been a shadow over the Sargon-affair. I was born in the area in 1963, and as a youngster, I learned that there was some secret associeted with the event, that was not spoken about.
> A few days ago, a new book was published about the Dhoon-rescue here in Iceland. In passing, the secret of the Sargon was divulged. And the secret is, that the rescuers were certain, after boarding the vessel to collect the bodies, that at least one, maybe more, of the crew were left onboard the ship, alive, despite the assurance by the last man rescued, that he had made sure that there was no-one left alive onboard.
> 
> Birgir Thorisson


Hi Birgir
I wonder if you could let me know if there was an Icelandic report in your press about the earlier incident of the Sargon in 1923 when she was towed into Reykjavik about the 2nd March. If there is a record in your libraries I would appreciate some help in obtaining a copy.

My father was John Bell who was a crew member of the Ethel Nutten and replaced the Sargon's crew member (*******) who was ijured during the rescue of the Ethel Nutten. He also sailed further trips on the Sargon before returning to Granton his home port.

Best regards

Mel


----------



## Geoff Clode

Hi Clem, You might be able to help me? I once did a trip out of Hartlepool on a trawler called the Cleveland. I think they used to call it the Valiant Star, she was originally from Grimsby I think. I live in Grimsby now so Ive probably passed you in the pubs!


----------



## birgir

Camerabridge.

There is no mentioning of the Sargon around March 1923 in the Icelandic papers, all of which are now searchable online for that period. The only things appearing to maybe relate to it, is that it is mentioned in the daily journal of comings and goings of ships, in the newspaper published by the Icelandic labour party, that an unnamed english trawler entered Reykjavik on March 2. for engine repair. But it is treated as absolutely trivial, the ships name not even mentioned.

Birgir Thorisson.


----------



## mattarosa

camerabridge said:


> Hi Birgir
> I wonder if you could let me know if there was an Icelandic report in your press about the earlier incident of the Sargon in 1923 when she was towed into Reykjavik about the 2nd March. If there is a record in your libraries I would appreciate some help in obtaining a copy.
> 
> My father was John Bell who was a crew member of the Ethel Nutten and replaced the Sargon's crew member (*******) who was ijured during the rescue of the Ethel Nutten. He also sailed further trips on the Sargon before returning to Granton his home port.
> 
> Best regards
> 
> Mel


Mel
I am attaching a few cuttings which may be of interest to you if you are not already aware of them. There are six and I can only upload 5 so will send the final one in a separate message.
Hilary


----------



## mattarosa

*Last cutting*

Here is the last one - there were only five after all, I seem to have posted one twice in the last message, but have now deleted.

Hilary


----------



## mattarosa

*Sargon*

This link is to another article about the Sargon in 1923.

http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article1882252


----------



## birgir

Although the Sargon´s name is nowhere mentioned, one paper reports on the incident, naming the Schlesvig-Holstein. The ships arrived in Reykjavík on march 1. 1923. There are some details in the article, but since it is in Icelandic, I do not know whether it is of any use. The following string MAY take you to the story, but I do not guarantee it. http://timarit.is/view_page_init.jsp?issId=99851&lang=is

Birgir Thorisson


----------



## birgir

No, it won´t. It takes you to the right paper, but wrong date. But you can select mars 4 issue, on the left of the screen, and go to page 2. The article is in the rightmost column, under the heading "Hrakningar".

Birgir Thorisson


----------



## mattarosa

birgir said:


> No, it won´t. It takes you to the right paper, but wrong date. But you can select mars 4 issue, on the left of the screen, and go to page 2. The article is in the rightmost column, under the heading "Hrakningar".
> 
> Birgir Thorisson


Birgir
This is an impressive looking archive and makes me wish I could speak your language. I love reading about the fishing industry in old newspapers and I am gradually trawling (ha ha) through what newspaper archives are available at my library or via the Internet.
Hilary


----------



## camerabridge

*Sargon GY858*

Birgir 

Many thanks for the article, very much appreciated.
Mel

( Now to get a translation)


----------



## camerabridge

Hilary

seems I have been drifting along but with your help I can change tack and trawl the archives of the Express and Mirror. I suspect there is bound to be a lot of info. in the Grimsby newspapersand I wonder if someone can ppoint me in the right direction

Many thanks
Mel


----------



## mattarosa

*Gy502*

Hello everyone

Any help appreciated to identify this one.

It is described as Seanetter GY502. I wonder if Seanetter means seine netter? 

Hilary


----------



## davetodd

Hilary
The vessel is Kevan GY502 ON 181377 built 1857 at Whitby and owned by Gull F.Co.Ltd. of Grimsby.
Photo in the SN Gallery at:-

http://www.shipsnostalgia.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=136220

Regards
Dave
p.s. Seine netter is probably right, rather than Seannetter.
Depends on the pronunciation of the word Seine ( "seen" or "sane" , more correctly,I would say that "Danish" Seine Netter is the correct term.)


----------



## mvprincessanne

*andromarche*



Kerbtrawler said:


> Hi Birgir Happy New Year
> Here's the info on the trawler
> 
> Built 02/1914 by Cochranes of Selby
> GY 31
> Official No 135997
> 313Gt 160Nt
> 140 x 24 x 12.5
> Quarter Deck 77'
> Foc'sle 20'
> Original Owners Buckworth & Mumby of Cork
> 04/1916 went to Leith Owners
> 
> The Andromarche Skipper was made Prisoner when the vessel was captured
> The vessel was then Sunk
> This all Happened off Portland nr Iceland. The vessel was on its way from Hull to Iceland according to Lloyds War losses
> 
> regards
> Trevor


My great grandfather was chief engineer on andromarche when it was sunk,the story i was told via my grandfather was that the u boat wanted just the officers taken off before the boat was sunk with the rest of the crew aboard.As his son was the trimmer he would not leave him and went down with the ship.I know grandfather was very bitter with anything german he also was chief engineer on trawlers and in the RNVR during the ww2 and also sunk via a u boat ,but came home to tell the tail. Stuart postle


----------



## Kerbtrawler

Thats absolutely fascinating and certainley adds the human side of things that took place during the conflict.

Thanks


----------



## mattarosa

davetodd said:


> Hilary
> The vessel is Kevan GY502


Thanks, Dave.


----------



## birgir

Re; Andromache.
Stuart postle
The account by your grandfather does not look quite credible to me.
WW1 was much less a total war than WW2. German submariners were reluctant to kill just for the sake of killing, even after the declaration of unrestricted submarine warfare. Taking the skipper prisoner was normal procedure. So was to leave the crew in the lifeboats. Often they did not make it to safety. But that is a different cup of tea, than deliberatly kill them while sinking the ship. Torpedoing without warning often resulted in the whole crew perishing. But in this instance, the ship was stopped, the skipper taken prisoner, and the ship presumably sunk with a bomb.
So, who told your grandfather what transpired? The surviving officers? 
According to the records on uboatnet, the Andromache was sunk west of the Shetlands, so in open sea. 11 casualties, but the skipper made prisoner. Looks to me more likely that the lifeboat did not make it to the shore. Looking at the record of U-78, there doesn´t seem to be a pattern of killing the crew.


Birgir Thorisson.


----------



## Roger Griffiths

Stuart,

I would totally agree with Birgir. 
The scenario you relate, would, in my opinion, constitute a War Crime. Search the archives. Was there any sort of inquiry or trial? Answer. No. I suggest that family folklaw has distorted the truth somewhat.

The skipper, J.W. CUTSFORTH, was indeed taken prisoner. There is a difference of opinion on the date when ANDROMACHE was sunk. CWGC give 12/4/1917, The historian, Spindler, says she was sunk on the 14th. Michael Lowry is checking the KTB of U-78 to try and establish the correct date. Thanks to Michael for his input.

That said, 11 fishermen lost their lives.

James BRAY: http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=2979856
Walter EDGAR: http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=2886233
Wiliam Arthur GREGORY: http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=2887346
Charles Frederick GROSNECK: http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=2887401
George Henry HOMANS: http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=2887401
A E LAMMIMAN: http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=3059348
Francis POSTLE: http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=2973518
Frncis Robert POSTLE: http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=2973519
George William RYALL: http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=3032381
Thomas SMITH: http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=3032779
John James WATTLEY: http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=2969809

Lest we forget.

Roger


----------



## mvprincessanne

*andromarche*



Roger Griffiths said:


> Stuart,
> 
> I would totally agree with Birgir.
> The scenario you relate, would, in my opinion, constitute a War Crime. Search the archives. Was there any sort of inquiry or trial? Answer. No. I suggest that family folklaw has distorted the truth somewhat.
> 
> The skipper, J.W. CUTSFORTH, was indeed taken prisoner. There is a difference of opinion on the date when ANDROMACHE was sunk. CWGC give 12/4/1917, The historian, Spindler, says she was sunk on the 14th. Michael Lowry is checking the KTB of U-78 to try and establish the correct date. Thanks to Michael for his input.
> 
> That said, 11 fishermen lost their lives.
> 
> James BRAY: http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=2979856
> Walter EDGAR: http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=2886233
> Wiliam Arthur GREGORY: http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=2887346
> Charles Frederick GROSNECK: http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=2887401
> George Henry HOMANS: http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=2887401
> A E LAMMIMAN: http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=3059348
> Francis POSTLE: http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=2973518
> Frncis Robert POSTLE: http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=2973519
> George William RYALL: http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=3032381
> Thomas SMITH: http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=3032779
> John James WATTLEY: http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=2969809
> 
> Lest we forget.
> 
> Roger


Think what you will i dont think its the type of story you just make up.


----------



## aavh

Owned by Owners from Leith, but after looking at the casualty list still manned by a Humberside crew one year after the transfer. I also wonder why such a new vessel was not requisitioned... does anyone know


----------



## TSJ59

aavh said:


> Owned by Owners from Leith, but after looking at the casualty list still manned by a Humberside crew one year after the transfer. I also wonder why such a new vessel was not requisitioned... does anyone know


Possibly because it was built for (Cork) Irish owners but registered at Grimsby. Fact is that it is not know how she was sunk, that seems to indicate that Skipper Cutsforth didn't witness her demise. I will be interested to see if Michael finds more info. from U 78's KTB.

Even so I can understand mvprincessann (Stuart) defending his Grandfather's
recollections on this.

Cheers, Terry


----------



## birgir

According to the Uboat.net website record, the Andromache was owned (or managed) by A.& M. Smith. IIRC they were shipowners in Hull, with interests in other ports.
About the family story; There was a ship captured by the U-78 a few days later, where they took the chief engineer prisoner, as well as the captain, (+ one other, whose title I have forgot). The part about the great-grandfather wanting to stay with his son, is easily reconcilable with my and Rogers doubts about a war-crime being committed. The Uboat.net website has the loss on april 14th. This website is the top reference in the world, when it comes to U-boats, in both world wars, but the references and source material is not directly given.

Birgir Thorisson.


----------



## TSJ59

According to Charles B. Cox, _ANDROMACHE_ was built by Cochrane, Selby.
Registered Feb.1914 as _Andromache GY 31_ by Buckworth & Mumby, Cork.
and went to Leith owners April 1916. Lost 1917.

Extracted from "British Vessels Lost at Sea 1914-1918" by HMSO, 1919.
_ANDROMACHE_, 313grt, April 1917, North Sea, captured by submarine, but not known how sunk. Date not known, listed in April, Skipper made prisoner,

I also have a high regard for uboat.net

Cheers, Terry


----------



## Michael Lowrey

I handle much of the WWI material for uboat.net. 

As for our sources, it’s about what you’d suspect. Admiral Arno Spindler’s official history of German submarine operations against merchant shipping is the single most important source. Builder and owner information for steamers (including trawlers) of 300+ grt built from 1872 on comes from the Starke-Schell lists. Beyond that we use national loss lists if available (_British Vessels Lost at Sea 1914-18_ etc.), plus Lloyd's War Losses. Have downloaded a couple of older copies of _Lloyd’s Register of Shipping_ as well. 

And, of course, primary source do***ents from various nations, including the KTBs (war daiaries) of U-boats.

What we have on the website so far is based upon Spindler, CWGC data, _BVLAS_, and a online list ofBritish sailors taken captive I found. I have, however, had a look at _U 78_'s KTB describing the sinking (see attached).

A rough, quick translation:

"To port, smoke in sight. Steered towards and fired upon. Steamer stops. Crew climbs in the lifeboats. Steamer sunk by scuttling charges. Shipper taken on board. Name: Andromache, 313 grt, fishing trawler from Grimsby. Steamer had spend three weeks off Iceland fishing and was on the way home. Skipper explians that he had orders from the government to fish off Iceland and not off the (English) east coast."

Best wishes,
Michael


----------



## K urgess

Welcome aboard from northern England, Michael, and thanks for the added information.
We all regularly refer to uboat.net, an excellent resource. (Thumb)
Find your way around and get to know the crew.
Have a good voyage.


----------



## TSJ59

Michael - Welcome also and thanks for posting the scan and the translation. very interesting and useful information.

Cheers, Terry


----------



## michael john debnam

*re call signs*



glenn said:


> Call Sign Northern Sceptre was MQTQ


hi as an ex radio opertor i was wandering had you something to do with being an operator thanks mike debnam


----------



## S-Drever

*Hello and new site announcement*

Just found this discussion forum and had to subscibe so firstly I'd like to say 'hello'! I'm setting up a new site dedicated to Grimsby fishing heritage at www.fishingheritage.org I come from a Grimsby family with a long fishing tradition, hence the interest. 
There's an amazing amount of knowledge in this forum so it would be great if members could contribute a story or any information I could attach to anything in the collection. New images or videos are always welcome.

I'm really keen to see the collection used in schools and universities where the importance of industrial heritage can be overlooked.

Cheers,
Steve


----------



## Kerbtrawler

Welcome S-Drever, you are more than welcome to use any info on my site thats of use to you

cheers


----------



## gil mayes

Welcome. Be interested to see how your new site develops.
Gil.


----------



## mattarosa

*Seasonal message*

I won't have access to a computer for a few days, so I just wanted to thank everyone for all their help whenever I have a question and to wish you all a very happy Christmas.

Hilary


----------



## Magnus Ganson

same to you Hilary, and I hope you're on that 'list'


----------



## Per Clausen

Hello!
Does anyone have any information or pictures showing a Grimsby fishing vessel called Gladson? I would also like to ask for the vessel Gladeto?

Think the were fishing out of Grimsby in the 50's and 60's.

Thanks in advance!!

Greetings

Per


----------



## Steve Farrow

Per Clausen said:


> Hello!
> Does anyone have any information or pictures showing a Grimsby fishing vessel called Gladson? I would also like to ask for the vessel Gladeto?
> 
> Think the were fishing out of Grimsby in the 50's and 60's.
> 
> Thanks in advance!!
> 
> Greetings
> 
> Per


Per,

If you do a search in the Gallery under Fishing Vessels, you will find three photo's of the Gladson. Two taken by me and one by Ian Potterton.

Send me a P/M withe your email address and I will forward a photo of the Gladeto!

Steve


----------



## davetodd

Per Clausen said:


> Hello!
> Does anyone have any information or pictures showing a Grimsby fishing vessel called Gladson? I would also like to ask for the vessel Gladeto?
> 
> Think the were fishing out of Grimsby in the 50's and 60's.
> 
> Thanks in advance!!
> 
> Greetings
> 
> Per


Hello Per
In addition to Steve's information:-
Gladeto GY154 ON 182664 built 1939 Esbjerg Owner Eskesen Ltd
Gladson GY631 ON 301836 built 1960 Buckie Owner Gladeto F.Co.Ltd.
You may also be interested in :-
Gladnes GY581 ON 168608 built 1958 Buckie Owner Eskesen Ltd.

Regards
Dave


----------



## Per Clausen

Thanks a lot Steve and Dave!!

Gladeto was owned by two brothers called Eskesen as far as I know. Gladeto means two happy people in danish. Gladeto was later sold to Lemvig in Denmark and was sunk by a steel trawler.

I've have just seen the photo's of Gladson. Looks like a very strong and very well maintained ship.

I did'nt know the "Gladnes".

Thanks for the quick reply to You both.

/Per


----------



## Steve Farrow

Per Clausen said:


> Thanks a lot Steve and Dave!!
> 
> Gladeto was owned by two brothers called Eskesen as far as I know. Gladeto means two happy people in danish. Gladeto was later sold to Lemvig in Denmark and was sunk by a steel trawler.
> 
> I've have just seen the photo's of Gladson. Looks like a very strong and very well maintained ship.
> 
> I did'nt know the "Gladnes".
> 
> Thanks for the quick reply to You both.
> 
> /Per


Per,

Because of unknown copyright, I have sent a photo of the GLADETO by email rather than post it in the Gallery. I fear that many interesting photographs will now have to remain within private albums and shoe-boxes after the delicate subject of copyright has been discussed at length on this site. 
I find this very sad while fully understanding the worries of a legal backlash. As a marine artist, I willingly post my paintings in the Gallery with the full knowlege that they can be downloaded and copied. That does not mean they can then be sold on for gain. There lies the difference!

Regards

Steve


----------



## ian potterton

Per,
This must have been a different Gladeto,GY154 forgot to turn left at spurn lightship and ran ashore on Cleethorpes beach and was a total loss,no persons were injured,I think in 1976,Derick Ireland was the Skipper and was owened by Aage Christensen.
Gladson was owned by Erling Pedersen,also a good friend to uncle Harry.
Gladnes sunk in the central North sea I think 1986,the Skipper was Ole Pedersen


----------



## Per Clausen

Dear Steve
Thanks for the photo You send to me. I will keep it in my personal files.
Hi again Ian
You are right there must have been two ships with the rare and very unusual name Gladeto. The danish ship I mentioned with the name was L450 and sunk 28. maj 1989. I thought that was the GY154, because of the name.
Thanks for the informations about persons involved with the ships I was asking for. All the names you mention are danish and will probaly help me with my further investigations about my uncle Harry.
/per


----------



## Kerbtrawler

*GY 88 Tubal Cain*

Happy new year to everyone

GY 88 is shown as being issued to the Tubal Cain in the Cox lists
However I also have GY 88 being issued to the Whitenight but cannot find this in the cox lists
The Whitenight can be found in various Olsens as being built 1920 at Barton upon Humber Official number 146867 
Can anyone advise or explain please as I was under the imnpression the cox lists were very comprehensive

cheers


----------



## billblow

Kerbtrawler.
Some say size is not important but my guess would be it is to do with the vessels tonnage and would have come under the smaller vessel list that Cox did not complete.
billblow


----------



## gil mayes

TUBAL CAIN (122709) was registered (GY88) on 21.11.1906 and registry was closed 8.9.1914 with notation 'Sunk by German cruiser'. The line was vacant until 18.7.1922 when WHITE KNIGHT (146867) was allocated (GY88). At 95grt WHITE KNIGHT was perhaps too small for Cox as Bill suggests.
Gil.


----------



## davetodd

Just a small point regarding spelling.
Both Olsen's and Grimsby ship index have the spelling as:-
WHITENIGHT..... one word without the K.
Regards
Dave
And a happy new year to all.


----------



## billblow

After Gil's mention of the vessels tonnage I revisited Cox and found 20 maybe30 vessels of similar or less tonnage so I believe the reason for the absence in Cox is due to the method of fishing employed by the White(k)night.
You will note the title is The Steam Trawlers and Liners of Grimsby.
Best wishes
Bill


----------



## gil mayes

As you know she was a wood built Admiralty Standard Drifter by Clapson & Son, Barton and completed as a fishing vessel under the name FOUNTAIN. Throughout the Grimsby Returns she is listed as WHITE KNIGHT. Only her Registration Docs will answer this query.
Thinking on, Cox lists 'Steam Trawlers & Liners', these ex Admiralty Drifters and other Grimsby registered steam drifter/netters(seine), do not fall in to that category. Without looking too far the BOY JERMYN(ex ***ulus) (140015)(GY105), 97grt and BRASH (ex Borealis)(146038)(GY119), 98grt fall into that group; there are many others.
Gil.


----------



## Steve Farrow

With regard WHITE NIGHT, I remember her being used as the club house for what is now the Grimsby & Cleethorpes Yacht Club in the early 60’s when I started dinghy sailing in my uncle’s boat, which we moored close to her stern. Her bows were aground in the shallow water but her stern flooded each time the dock water rose! 
That part of the Alexandra Dock was known locally as Winnipeg, and is now the car import berth. I believe the White Night was broken up were she laid and is now buried under the concrete.

Steve


----------



## Kerbtrawler

Thanks everyone for the information, it hadn't occured to me about that type of vessel 

cheers


----------



## gkh151

Hi to all,

Does anyone have any info on a ship named Salacon I believe from info I have managed to find that her number was GY 55 and that she was lost on September 8th 1940 about 5 miles outside the Humber can anyone provide any more info on her I am also interested in finding out where she was built and who for and her official number. Also if anyone has a photo I would be most gratefull. I have looked in the gallery without result. Thanks in advance.

Graham


----------



## donald mckay

Salacon GY55 ......on 118948 built in Beverley 1905 Callsign JPNH 83 Tonnes 63 SHP owned in 1927 by Standard Steam Fishing Co Grimsby


----------



## aavh

Built by Cook,Welton & Gemmell foer the Standard Steam Fishing Co Ltd Grimsby. 02.1937: Owned by H. G. Hopwood & C. Taylor Grimsby. 05.1937: Owned by Japan Steam fishing Co Ltd Grimsby. 211gt 76nt 115.4 x 21.6 x 11.4 ft. Dtonated a mine 5 miles east of the Spurn Lighthouse, eight crew lost.


----------



## gkh151

Hi Donald and aavh Thanks for that info I am most gratefull if there is anyone who has any further info or a photo it will be most appreciated.

Graham


----------



## mattarosa

*Gy104*

Could anyone help me to identify this trawler, please. It is GY104. I have a number of trawlers with that number, including Reverto and Pataudi, but the name in the photograph does not seem to be either of those, though perhaps it is.

Any help appreciated.

Hilary


----------



## birgir

This is the Pataudi, under her first name, Jean Eva. She was renamed Wolves in 1938, then Pataudi in 1947. A detailed "biography" is on the sidewinder website.

Birgir Thorisson


----------



## Steve Farrow

Hilary,

Last week I was talking to a woman I know who explained that the JEAN EVA was named after her mother! It seems that because her husband the skipper, who was to take her to sea from new, was a very successful man and Consolidated Fisheries let him choose the name! Sister-ship to the first GRIMSBY TOWN.

Regards

Steve


----------



## mattarosa

Steve Farrow said:


> Hilary,
> 
> Last week I was talking to a woman I know who explained that the JEAN EVA was named after her mother! It seems that because her husband the skipper, who was to take her to sea from new, was a very successful man and Consolidated Fisheries let him choose the name! Sister-ship to the first GRIMSBY TOWN.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Steve


Thanks to both Steve and Birgir. Where else could I find out this sort of information so quickly. You guys are brilliant.

Having been marooned at home today waiting for a parcel that the Royal Mail promised to deliver, but didn't, I have been looking at my list and there is another mystery/mix-up I would like to solve, as follows:

I have GY36 as both Silver Line and Sparkling Line.
I also have Sparkling Line GY364.

There is also a K364 that might be the same as GY364.

Also an Eyrun AR66 that might be either GY36 or GY364, or both.

How many trawlers are here and in what order do the names come.

What ports are AR and K?

As always, any help appreciated.

Hilary

PS - in case my comment about the Royal Mail causes any of our Icelandic, Norwegian, Danish etc friends to conclude that we Brits are all wimps because nothing works here whenever a few snowflakes fall, I would like to mention that I walked an hour and a half through foot-deep snow and treacherous ice to get to work one day last week because my car was buried and frozen!


----------



## aavh

Hilary, AR is Ayr & K is Kirkwall assuming that they a British


----------



## Steve Farrow

Hilary,

John Hancock had the Sparkling Line built in 1989 as an auto-liner, to fish mainly for dogs and was registered as GY 36. He later bought the Wendy Pulfrey BCK 198 and re-named her the Silver Line. The Sparling Line was sold (about 1996) and re-registered as K 364 to an owner in Lerwick, LHD Ltd. The Silver Line then became GY 36. Both of these vessels were very successful at the time, but the Silver Line eventually was saw-up with a chain saw. He also had the Apollo after the latter, and she was also GY 36!

Not much snow here in Cleethorpes yet, but ice is causing problems!

Regards

Steve


----------



## davetodd

Steve Farrow said:


> Hilary,
> 
> John Hancock had the Sparkling Line built in 1989 as an auto-liner, to fish mainly for dogs and was registered as GY 36. He later bought the Wendy Pulfrey BCK 198 and re-named her the Silver Line. The Sparling Line was sold (about 1996) and re-registered as K 364 to an owner in Lerwick, LHD Ltd. The Silver Line then became GY 36. Both of these vessels were very successful at the time, but the Silver Line eventually was saw-up with a chain saw.
> 
> Not much snow here in Cleethorpes yet, but ice is causing problems!
> 
> Regards
> 
> Steve


Steve, was there an earlier Silver Line GY36 ? built 1979 at Buckie.
Also owned by J.Hancock.
Regardfs
Dave


----------



## Steve Farrow

davetodd said:


> Steve, was there an earlier Silver Line GY36 ? built 1979 at Buckie.
> Also owned by J.Hancock.
> Regardfs
> Dave


Dave,

The vessels owned by John Hancock, were, the Lead Us WY 36, Sarah H GY 377, Sparkling Line GY 36, Silver Line GY 36, Silver Stream GY 386, Apollo GY 36 and Genesis BCK 19.

I am not aware of any other GY 36 apart from the steam trawler Leo.

Regards

Steve


----------



## Shane Johnson

Steve, I remember John having the Lillian for a while bit I am not sure if that was renamed to Sarah H after his daughter.
I know when he was skippering the Lillian, he took a short cut across the binks and nearly broke her back, lucky escape.

EDIT,

Just done a search and found the Lillian GY377...renamed to Sarah H so answered my own question.


----------



## birgir

Hilary, and others in Britain:

Enjoy the snowstorm. You don´t know how long it will last, and in view of the vicissitude of the weather in recent years, you might not experience another one in your lifetime!!
Up here in Iceland, the weather is unbelievable. I can hardly recall a decent winter over the past decades, (1968, was, I believe, the last "real" winter, and that is almost before my memory).

Eyrun AR 66 is an Icelandic boat.

Birgir Thorisson


----------



## mattarosa

*Gy36*

Thanks to everyone who has contributed to this discussion - Steve and aavh and Dave and Birgir (hope I didn't forget anyone). I am still totally confused though.

As Birgir says Eyrun AR-66 is an Icelandic boat, but I found on this page

http://www.alasund.is/deliveries.htm

that Eyrun AR-66 was ex-Sparkling Line of GY. So far so good, but it says Eyrun was "Sold to Crab fishermen in Portsmouth, England" and was to be named Sparkling Line. Re the ex-Sparkling Line of GY, I assume that was Sparkling Line GY36, but there was (I think) another Sparkling Line that was GY364, which was also K364. I am not sure that this is right because it seems very curious that a trawler would get the same registration number in two different ports, so perhaps the K364 was also GY36? If so, when was 
K364 registered. Could the crab fishermen in Portsmouth have registered the boat in Kirkwall (I think that is where aavh said K was). This would give us:

Sparkling Line GY36
Eyrun AR-66
Sparkling Line K364

but I have no idea if this is the right sequence.

Then there is the Silver Line, also GY36. This is (I think) ex-Wendy Pulfrey, Buckie registered (was she ever registered at Grimsby?).

I also have an Apollo GY36 but my brain is already hurting, so I think I'll leave it at that for now. Someone bought me a book of Codewords for Christmas and I have been puzzling them out. They are much easier than trying to unravel this!

Hilary


----------



## mattarosa

Steve - sorry, I completely missed your message that answered a lot of my questions! Thanks for the info.

Hilary


----------



## Steve Farrow

Hilary,

I had no idea that the Sparkling Line became the Ayrun Ar-66! Thank you for the link.

Regards

Steve


----------



## davetodd

gkh151 said:


> Hi Donald and aavh Thanks for that info I am most gratefull if there is anyone who has any further info or a photo it will be most appreciated.
> 
> Graham


Graham,
Grimsby Library have one photograph of Salacon ON 118948.
It is a fairly good image but slightly grey.
If you would like a copy, contact Jennie Mooney at [email protected]
She will be able to let you know cost etc.
Regards
Dave


----------



## gkh151

Dave,

Thanks very much for that link I will send her an e-mail.
Once again thanks so much for the others that have provide info, I am most gratefull.

Graham


----------



## jeffsmith

Charles Madsen said:


> Has anybody heard of the fishing boat LA Madsen that was lost off Iceland in 1949 with the loss of all hands. The skippers name was Ivar Kristian Madsen


Dear Charles,

I understand from my mother that Ivar Madsen was a close friend to her father, Olga Jensen and that Ivar had given her father the job as watchman onboard the ‘L A Madsen’ during the winter lay-up period in 1949. Olga was a Danish Fisherman too who married an English woman and had lived in Grimsby since the late twenties. At that time Olga was convalescing following a head injury at sea onboard another seine net vessel either, ‘De Aston’ or ‘Denston’ and this job meant he could keep an income going until he was fit for sea again. 

Over the winter of 1949 my mother and her two brothers, paid regular visits to see their father onboard the ‘L A Madsen’ in Grimsby Dock. They too became friendly with Ivar whist he worked onboard preparing his ship for sea. On some occasions Olga’s two lads, Ray and Philip, would sleep onboard the ship with their dad overnight. 

Apparently, the ‘L A Madsen’ was a relatively large seine net vessel and it was not unusual for her to fish Icelandic waters from Grimsby during the summer months. I understand that on this occasion Ivar Madsen had decided to fish Icelandic grounds on his first trip of the year in March 1949. Amongst her crew of four, including Ivar, was two other Danes and a young English lad of 15 on his first trip to sea, names not known. 

My grandfather, as watchman, was with the ship and her crew right up to the moment she sailed from Grimsby and probably the last person to see any of them alive on that fateful voyage.

My mother, Sheila and her brother Ray, are still alive and both live in Grimsby. They have often referred to the ‘L A Madsen’ over the years and the sad event which followed. I assume you to be the son or grandson of Ivar Madsen and it will be nice for them to hear of you. 

Best regards,
Jeff.


----------



## Kerbtrawler

*Brucklay GY 1052*

I am looking for some help concerning the Brucklay GY 1052

I know her history before she came to Grimsby and during her time at Grimsby 
but I can only trace her up to 1936 she was owned by E J Walker Edinburgh A 489
I have checked Olsens and there is no mention in 1947

anyone know what happened to her

cheers


----------



## mattarosa

Kerbtrawler said:


> I am looking for some help concerning the Brucklay GY 1052
> 
> I know her history before she came to Grimsby and during her time at Grimsby
> but I can only trace her up to 1946 she was owned by E J Walker Edinburgh A 489
> I have checked Olsens and there is no mention in 1947
> 
> anyone know what happened to her
> 
> cheers


According to the site "Aberdeen built ships" this trawler was scrapped in 1934/5. Here is the link:

http://www.aberdeenships.com/single.asp?offset=410&index=101044

I have no idea whether or not this info is correct, I'm just passing on the link in case it is useful.

By the way, just looked at your profile and you live very close to me (or I live very close to you!)

Hilary


----------



## mattarosa

Another trawler mentioned on the Aberdeen built ships site is the Bernard Boyle or Dulcibelle. It says this trawler was owned by Consolidated, Grimsby. Was this one ever registered at Grimsby? If so, under what number?

http://www.aberdeenships.com/single.asp?searchFor=Grimsby&index=101373

Hilary


----------



## aavh

Hilary, here is what I have on both of these, all additions/changes welcomed

Andy

*Brucklay**:* (FR 835) (1900-1934) (Steel) 
O.N. 110859. 182g 77n 110.2 x 21.2 x 11.4 feet
59 hp T.3-cyl by Hall Russell & Co Ltd Aberdeen

08.11.1900: Launched by Hall Russell & Co Ltd, Aberdeen (Yd.No.342) for Fraserburgh & North of Scotland Steam Trawling Co Ltd Fraserburgh as *“Brucklay” *FR 835. 1900: Completed: 1900: Registered at Fraserburgh FR 835. 1909: Owned byDundee Steam Trawling Co. Ltd, Dundee. Undated: Registered at DundeeDE 5. 05.1917: Owned by G. F. Sleight Grimsby. 05.1917: Registered at Grimsby GY 1052.
29.05.1917: Requsitioned as a Fishery Reserve Vessel. 1919: Returned to Owners. 12.1920: Owned by Walker Steam Trawl Fishing Co Ltd Aberdeen (Andrew Walker manager). 12.1920: Grimsby Registry closed. 21.12.1920: Registered at Aberdeen A.489. 1929: Owned by E. J. Walker Edinburgh. 1934: Scrapped.


*Barnard Boyle:* () (1918-1961) (Steel)
O.N. 143904: 203g 81n 115.4 x 22.1 x 12.1 feet
75 hp T.3-cyl by Hall Russell & Co Ltd, Aberdeen

13.06.1918: Launched by Hall Russell & Co Ltd Aberdeen (Yd.No.632) for the Admiralty as *“Barnard Boyle”* (Ad.No.3642). 04.07.1918: Completed. 23.08.1920: Registered at London LO 399. 13.06.1921: Sold to the Mercantile. 13.06.1921: Owned by E.C. Matheson, Macduff Banffshire. 1921: Owned by Consolidated Steam Fishing & Ice Co Ltd Grimsby (John D. Marsden manager). 28.11.1921: London registry closed. 12.1921: Renamed *“DULCIBELLE”*. 1921: Registered at Swansea SA 85. 09.1927: Owned by Consolidated Fisheries Ltd Grimsby (Sir John D Marsden Bart manager). 1928: Owned by Alexander Bruce Aberdeen. 02.08.1928: Registered at Aberdeen A.358. 05.1933: Fitted with wireless and echo sounder. 11.1939: Requisitioned and converted to an Auxiliary Patrol Vessel (P.No.FY.826). 1942: Owned by A.A. Davidson Aberdeen. 11.1944: Returned to Owners.1946: Owned by Looker Fishing Co Ltd Aberdeen (A.A. Davidson manager). 12.1950: Lloyd’s class withdrawn. 1959: Owned by W.H. Dodds & Co Ltd Aberdeen (A.W. King manager).
1961: Scrapped in Holland.


----------



## mattarosa

Andy
Many thanks. It is interesting to discover where trawlers were registered and a reminder that even if a company's registered office was in one port, it did not mean all their trawlers fished out of that port.
Hilary


----------



## Kerbtrawler

Hilary, Andy,
Thanks for the information, It lets me close at least the file on this trawler

cheers

Hilary you will have to PM me your where abouts

have a good evening


----------



## andrew.j

*gy.23-black watch*



Clem said:


> Hi everyone, I've started this thread to discuss Grimsby fishing vessels. I'm in the process of compiling a database of the above and, would welcome any contributions on this theme. ie. photo's, stories of life on board, histories of the vessels etc.
> 
> Hopefully as this thread develops, it can become a reference point for people with similar interests.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Clem


hello clem,and all.iam jack from belgium,ive have a question iff anyone have
more info and pics.from gy.23-black watch.
i have seen here going,long time ago to brugge here in belgium to the breakers.iam very intrestet in her live as sidewinder.thank you.


----------



## gkh151

Hi Andrew,

this is some info I have found about the Black Watch, hope it helps you.

Black Watch GY.23 
Built: 1956. Builders: Rickmers Werft, Bremerhaven, Germany. Yard No: 284. Launched: Sunday 15th April 1956. Completed: 1956. Registered: May 1956. Gross Tons: 697. Nett Tons: 238. Length: 185.2 feet. Beam: 31.5 feet. Depth: 17 feet. Forecastle: 38 feet. Official Number: 184941.
Original owners: Loyal Steam Fishing Co Ltd, Grimsby.
January 1966
Bought by Northern Trawlers Ltd, Grimsby.
Fate: Scrapped in August 1976.

Graham


----------



## Kerbtrawler

andrew.j said:


> hello clem,and all.iam jack from belgium,ive have a question iff anyone have
> more info and pics.from gy.23-black watch.
> i have seen here going,long time ago to brugge here in belgium to the breakers.iam very intrestet in her live as sidewinder.thank you.


Send me your email and I will send you some photo's
copyright is unknown

cheers


----------



## steven simpson

does anyone have pics of onward eagle? my dad was skipper on most of terry taylors boats. and i can find them all but the eagle.


----------



## steven simpson

Kerbtrawler said:


> Send me your email and I will send you some photo's
> copyright is unknown
> 
> cheers


[email protected]

thanks mate(Thumb)


----------



## steven simpson

[email protected]

thanks


----------



## mattarosa

Kerbtrawler said:


> copyright is unknown


It's very sad that everyone is too cautious to post any pictures now. It is quite understandable, but the site is the poorer for it. 

Has anyone heard from Nicolina?

Hilary


----------



## mattarosa

*Girl Pat*

I've been reading newspapers again!

In the Daily Express of 4 December 1936 is a very small article about what sort of toys were available inthe shops for children for Christmas. On the list was "models of the notorious Grimsby trawler Girl Pat". Does anyone know whether any of these models has survived? 

The story of the Girl Pat is obviously a very famous one - I heard it long, long ago (my mum came from Grimsby) and it seems to have had quite an influence. Another story in the papers was about a 9 year old boy who ran away to be a pirate after reading about the Girl Pat. Luckily he was found safe and well.

Hope everyone is having a peaceful, relaxed Sunday.

Hilary


----------



## Steve Farrow

(Thumb)


mattarosa said:


> It's very sad that everyone is too cautious to post any pictures now. It is quite understandable, but the site is the poorer for it.
> 
> Has anyone heard from Nicolina?
> 
> Hilary


Hilary,

I could not agree more. I have sent some photographs to members of this site through emails, just to be on the safe side, even though they are probably alright to post on here. It's just that nagging doubt! It defeats the whole purpose really, but the fear of litigation is everywhere, not just here. 

I haven't heard from Nicolina but he wrote to a friend of mine last week regarding a trawling issue. Nothing from Birgir either!

The sun just popped out for five minutes and now it's gone again....role on spring!!!

Steve


----------



## billblow

Hilary / Steve
Nicolina has contacted me with new year greetings and to say a new Icelandic trawler fishing site starting up 22nd of January.
billblow


----------



## mattarosa

Steve Farrow said:


> (Thumb)
> 
> I could not agree more. I have sent some photographs to members of this site through emails, just to be on the safe side, even though they are probably alright to post on here. It's just that nagging doubt! It defeats the whole purpose really, but the fear of litigation is everywhere, not just here.


 
I've never heard of any litigation against individuals but I can understand the concern of site managements. No sun here, but no rain either.


----------



## mattarosa

billblow said:


> Hilary / Steve
> Nicolina has contacted me with new year greetings and to say a new Icelandic trawler fishing site starting up 22nd of January.
> billblow


Bill
Please pass on my best wishes if you get the chance. I tried to send him an email through SN but he probably never got it. I learned a lot from Nicolina as I do from you all and I miss him.
Hilary


----------



## Michael Lowrey

gil mayes said:


> From FMHT database. As always, grateful for any corrections/additions, particularly her fate.
> EPHRAIM (FD218) (1908-1911)
> O.N. 127564. 260g (246g) 101n (94n) 125.0 x 22.0 x 12.2 feet
> T.3-cyl by Shields Engineering Co Ltd, North Shields
> 
> 30.6.1908: Launched by Smith’s Dock Co Ltd, North Shields (Yd.No.381) for West Coast Steam Fishing Co Ltd, Fleetwood (J. E. Rushworth, Grimsby, manager) as Ephraim . 22.8.1908: Registered at Fleetwood(FD218). 8.1908: Completed. 1911: Sold to Alfred Bannister (Trawlers) Ltd, Grimsby. 1913: Sold to Soc. de Pécheries de la Mediterranée, Marseilles (J. Arman, manager). 6.8.1913: Fleetwood registry closed. 1913: Renamed Marie Frédéric. Registered at Marseilles. FATE pre 1924.
> Gil.


Gil,

_Marie Frédéric_ -- I've also seen it spelled _Marie Frédérique_ -- was taken into French naval service during the war. On May 16, 1918 she sank on a mine north of Cap de Garde (37°02'N, 07°52'E) with the loss of 18 lives. The mine had been laid on May 6, 1918 by the Germine submarine minelayer _UC 54_.

Best wishes,
Michael


----------



## gil mayes

Excellent Michael, very many thanks.
Gil.


----------



## mattarosa

*GY192 (possibly)*

Hello everyone
You are all very quiet.

Can anyone help me to identify this trawler please? Is it GY192? If so, do you think it is Russell?

Thanks, as always.
Hilary


----------



## billblow

Hilary
I think Russell 11 which became Russell but it has Arthur Grant & Son funnel livery so I go for Russell 11 which was her full name when owned by Arthur Grant's

Edit.... yes was Russell changed to Russell 11 in WW1 then eventually back to Russell. I would date photograph between 6/1927 and 3/1930. 

billblow


----------



## mattarosa

billblow said:


> Hilary
> I think Russell 11 which became Russell but it has Arthur Grant & Son funnel livery so I go for Russell 11 which was her full name when owned by Arthur Grant's
> 
> Edit.... yes was Russell changed to Russell 11 in WW1 then eventually back to Russell. I would date photograph between 6/1927 and 3/1930.
> 
> billblow


Many thanks, billblow. I think that is a good demonstration of how useful the work you are doing is.

Hilary


----------



## gil mayes

Interesting one this. RUSSELL (123585) was registered at Grimsby as (GY192) on 29.9.1906 but was requisitioned as RUSSELL II on 5.1915 and returned with that name. The name RUSSELL II was not re-registered and she appears throughout as RUSSELL. But in the 1924 - 1928 Return of Fishing Boats she is recorded as RUSSELL II (123585) (GY192), ie at the time of Grant ownership, however, at the next Return she has reverted to RUSSELL. You will need to see her registration do***ent or the Grimsby Custom House Register to see just what did happen.
Also of interest is that the 1913 MNL shows William Grant as managing owner. Similarly Olsen's for the pre WW1 and during the war give owners as W; H; C and C A Grant. This does not fit in with Cox or CW&G.
Gil.


----------



## mattarosa

gil mayes said:


> Interesting one this.


Many thanks for the info on the Russell, Gil - and the puzzle!

Now, can anyone help me with another query? I have the Saxon Forward as both GY618 and GY688. Are there two or is one of the numbers a typo? And, if so, which number is right?

Hope you are all fine. It's oh-so-quiet here!

Hilary


----------



## davetodd

mattarosa said:


> Many thanks for the info on the Russell, Gil - and the puzzle!
> 
> Now, can anyone help me with another query? I have the Saxon Forward as both GY618 and GY688. Are there two or is one of the numbers a typo? And, if so, which number is right?
> 
> Hope you are all fine. It's oh-so-quiet here!
> 
> Hilary


Morning Hilary
The Saxon Forward was GY688.
GY618 was Saxon Onward, so perhaps a mis-reading has occurred.
Other Saxon vessels were:-
Progress GY655
Ranger GY1396
Venture GY616.
Regards
Dave


----------



## mattarosa

davetodd said:


> Morning Hilary
> The Saxon Forward was GY688.
> GY618 was Saxon Onward, so perhaps a mis-reading has occurred.
> Other Saxon vessels were:-
> Progress GY655
> Ranger GY1396
> Venture GY616.
> Regards
> Dave


You are absolutely right, Dave. I have looked again at the picture which caused the confusion and I have seen Onward and assumed Forward.

I have a terrific painting of Saxon Ranger GY1396 on my living room wall painted by our fellow member and good friend, Steve Farrow. I asked him to paint this one because it was the ex-Atlantic Seal and he had already painted the Atlantic Dolphin for me. Both, as I am sure you know were built in Grimsby by Doigs.

Hilary


----------



## mattarosa

mattarosa said:


> I have a terrific painting of Saxon Ranger GY1396 on my living room wall painted by our fellow member and good friend, Steve Farrow. I asked him to paint this one because it was the ex-Atlantic Seal and he had already painted the Atlantic Dolphin for me.


Steve has posted pics of both of these paintings in the Fishing Gallery in case anyone wants to see them.

Hilary


----------



## mattarosa

*Forward or Onward*

I'm a bit confused now about whether this is Saxon Forward or Saxon Onward. I favour Forward, but would appreciate confirmation or correction.

Thanks
Hilary


----------



## davetodd

mattarosa said:


> I'm a bit confused now about whether this is Saxon Forward or Saxon Onward. I favour Forward, but would appreciate confirmation or correction.
> 
> Thanks
> Hilary


The confusion is understandable, Hilary.
I have reversed the colours of the image and I am not sure if the number is GY618 or GY688.
Hopefully, Steve will be able to clear this up.
Regards
Dave


----------



## Steve Farrow

My mistake Hilary! I posted the title as SAXON FORWARD and it should of course been the SAXON ONWARD. There are some obvious differences in the design of the superstructure. I took this photo with a poor quality Instamatic, oh! to re-visit old times with my digital camera!

Steve


----------



## mattarosa

Steve Farrow said:


> My mistake Hilary! I posted the title as SAXON FORWARD and it should of course been the SAXON ONWARD. There are some obvious differences in the design of the superstructure. I took this photo with a poor quality Instamatic, oh! to re-visit old times with my digital camera!
> 
> Steve


I didn't even realise it was one of your pics, Steve, sorry I should have given you credit. So it is Saxon Onward. Please don't apologise about the quality of your pics, you have posted some terrific ones, and without people like you, there wouldn't be pictures at all, Instamatic or not.

This is "thread crossover" and I don't know if that is allowed, but you offered someone a pic of Delphinus, and I wondered if I might see it as that is a trawler I have never seen.

Enjoy what is left of the weekend. I'm just off to work now, more's the pity.

Hilary


----------



## mattarosa

mattarosa said:


> I didn't even realise it was one of your pics, Steve, sorry I should have given you credit. So it is Saxon Onward.
> 
> It might be a good idea to make a correction in the gallery? Otherwise, I am quite capable of getting re-confused on a later occasion


----------



## Steve Farrow

Hilary,

I've made the correction and altered her name accordingly. If it hadn't been for your 'Eagle eye' it would have remained misnamed!!!

I have posted the DELPHINUS in the Gallery with a brief history. Her funnel at the time appears to be that of Trawlers White Sea & Grimsby Ltd. That is, a red base, black top divided by two white bands seperated by a black band.

Regards

Steve


----------



## mattarosa

Steve Farrow said:


> Hilary,
> 
> I have posted the DELPHINUS in the Gallery with a brief history.
> 
> Thank you, Steve. It is lovely to see a Grimsby trawler in the gallery again.
> 
> Hilary


----------



## Will Grant

*E C Grant*

Hi, 

This is a message for Dave Todd. I saw in an earlier posting you said you might do some further research on Edward Cyril Grant during your next trip to the library.

I'd be fascinated to hear anything you may have discovered. He's my grandfather, who died before I was born, and I'm doing a little research ahead of my Dad's 70th birthday.

Anything you might know would be much appreciated.

All the very best,
Will Grant


----------



## mattarosa

*E C Grant*

Will
I can provide a tiny bit of genealogical information about an Edward Cyril Grant, although I have no way of knowing if it is your grandfather and, if it is, you may well have the information already.

BAPTISMS AT ST JOHN'S CHURCH, NEW CLEE 

Born 28 July Baptised 9 September 1883
Edward Cyril 
son of John Grant, engineer & Annie Elizabeth, Sheffield.
Ceremony performed by H Hutchinson.

Born 27 January Baptised 25 April 1886 Florence Mary
Dau of ...
other details same

Born 27 September Baptised 29 October 1889 
Constance Neville 
Dau of ... 
other details same

MARRIAGE AT OLD CLEE PARISH CHURCH 

22 October 1879
John Grant, 29, mechanical engineer, 15 Spurn View Terrace, Old Clee, son of Daniel Grant farmer 
Ann Elizabeth Chapman, 27, Humber Hotel, Grimsby, daughter of Levi Chapman, innkeeper
Witnesses - Levi Chapman, Matilda White

I don't have any connection with this family. The above entries just happen to be among a few transcriptions I made some years ago from Grimsby parish registers.

Hilary


----------



## davetodd

Will Grant said:


> Hi,
> 
> This is a message for Dave Todd. I saw in an earlier posting you said you might do some further research on Edward Cyril Grant during your next trip to the library.
> 
> I'd be fascinated to hear anything you may have discovered. He's my grandfather, who died before I was born, and I'm doing a little research ahead of my Dad's 70th birthday.
> 
> Anything you might know would be much appreciated.
> 
> All the very best,
> Will Grant


Hello Will
I have not been to the library recently but here is some information which may help.
In 1907
Steam trawler Forward GY98 the owner was listed as Edward Cyril Grant Skipper J.Little Cert. no.1896
In 1908 same owner Skipper Thomas W.Kew Cert.no.1830
In 1911 same owner Skipper George Garland Cert.no.3602

In 1908
Steam trawler Great Admiral GY733 owner listed as Edward Cyril Grant Skipper J.Little Cert.no.1896
In 1911 same owner same skipper.
In 1912 owner now listed as William Somerville Letten Skipper J.Little Cert.no.1896

In 1932 
Steam trawler Wardour GY523 owner listed as Edward C. Grant
In 1935 ownership named as Clan Steam Fishing Co.Ltd. Grimsby.

If I find any more information I will let you know via this website.
Regards
Dave


----------



## gil mayes

Will
If you send me a PM I will give you the history profiles of GREAT ADMIRAL and WARDOUR. The share ownership and mortgages of the former fleshes out a lot of what Dave has written above.
Gil.


----------



## corky2

Roger Griffiths said:


> Hello Trevor,
> Thank you for your continued interest. I look forward to the info from Grimsby archives.
> Another vessel sunk by UC63
> FRANCES GY903, 20 grt, sunk 28/June/1917 10 miles NE Spurn Point. She seem very small to me. Was she a liner or what? any details appreciated.
> 
> regards
> Roger


She would be Summer line fishing.Which a lot of small boats were sunk on this day 28/6 1917. My grandfather was on the Rose of June.
regards
corky2


----------



## oddeid

Just became wiever No 100000 of the traed Grimsby fishing vessel.

Any winning price for me ????


----------



## trotterdotpom

oddeid said:


> Just became wiever No 100000 of the traed Grimsby fishing vessel.
> 
> Any winning price for me ????


Bad luck. If it had been Hull Fishing Vessels you could have had the Silver Cod Trophy.

John T.


----------



## philh

*Saxon Onward*

Saxon Onward (now A182) is alive and well - currently operating out of Hobart, Tasmania -fishing in the South East Trawl Sector of Australia for deep sea species and market fish.Phil


----------



## Shipinfo

Saxon Onward and Saxon Progress are regular visitors to Portland (Victoria), I have lots of photos of both in the gallery.

Joy


----------



## Jeff. J.

Hi Clem
The SAXON ONWARD is a former Grimsby trawler (GY 618) built 1960, and came to Australia in 1976 converted to stern trawler and has been registered in Hobart (Tasmania, Australia) for a number of years, she operates frequently between there and Portland, Victoria. See various pix of her in my gallery (when it's back on line!!)
Cheers from Aussie
-------
Jeff


----------



## Jeff. J.

I never reached the end of the thread before I posted my comments re the SAXON PROGRESS (above). 
So I'm sorry Philh and Joy for repeating some of the info. that you had already posted regarding this vessel.
Regards
----
Jeff


----------



## trotterdotpom

Just to muddy the waters, Saxon Onward is actually registered in Port Adelaide.

John T.


----------



## Supern

I was born in Grimsby as were my Mum and my grandparents and we are trying to find crew list of my great grandfather from about 1900. Why we did not think to ask when family was still with us is beyond me but that is what we do when we are young.

My uncle went to sea on trawlers all his working life and my great Grandfather did and his brothers did one was a skipper. My aunt married into a family that owned first freezing works there and we have a long association with fish.

We are going to UK shortly and want to know where we can go go look up the crew lists etc. 

Also some of my family were on trawlers from Yarmouth.


----------



## davetodd

Supern said:


> I was born in Grimsby as were my Mum and my grandparents and we are trying to find crew list of my great grandfather from about 1900. Why we did not think to ask when family was still with us is beyond me but that is what we do when we are young.
> 
> My uncle went to sea on trawlers all his working life and my great Grandfather did and his brothers did one was a skipper. My aunt married into a family that owned first freezing works there and we have a long association with fish.
> 
> We are going to UK shortly and want to know where we can go go look up the crew lists etc.
> 
> Also some of my family were on trawlers from Yarmouth.




Hello Supern
With the year 1900 you may be in luck with the Grimsby Archives on-line search.
http://80.6.94.208/DServe/DServe.exe?dsqApp=Archive&dsqDb=Catalog&dsqCmd=Search.tcl
Type your ancestors name in the Any Text box.
There are some crew lists digitised for the census year of 1911.
The archives have the original crew lists for Grimsby vessels from the early 1800's to about 1912.
Best regards
Dave
p.s. If you need any more help, just ask!


----------



## donald h

Just a general question guys.
I am looking for info on behalf of a fellow Harrisman who`s father Murdo Campbell (long deceased) was a crewman onboard the requisitioned trawler WYOMING, FY1862, during ww2.
A potted history has her as being completed in 1915 as the VERESIS, GY483.
I have discovered that (as the Wyoming) she was sunk on the 20th May 1944, twenty nautical miles ENE of Harwich. There is also a list of the crew who were killed when she was mined available on the internet.
However, I am looking to see if there is a photo of her available anywhere, and a list of crew onboard at the time of her sinking, and any other info about the trawler itself.
I am presuming that as a requisitioned trawler, the crew would have been Patrol Service personnel. Would the RN have a record of service for his dad during this period? He does not know if his dad was MN or RN and he does not have any records whatsoever about his dad`s sea service. I would be very grateful for any help or information regarding the above vessel and crew. Thank you.
Donald


----------



## davetodd

Hello Donald
Don't know of any photographs of Wyoming but Grimsby Library have one of the Veresis.
I can have a look at it for you on my next visit there if you wish.
It may or may not be suitable for you.
In the meantime, it may be helpful to look at the website below.

http://www.fleetwood-trawlers.info/index.php/page/97/?s

Regards
Dave


----------



## donald h

Dave, that would be wonderful if you could. I will also check the website you mention.
Thanks for your help. Donald


----------



## davetodd

donald h said:


> Dave, that would be wonderful if you could. I will also check the website you mention.
> Thanks for your help. Donald


Donald
I had a look at the photograph of the Veresis GY483 at the Grimsby library.
It is about 5"x7" monochrome.
Taken from some distance at sea near a coastline.
The full length view shows the starboard side but is not clear.
The name or number could not be distinguished by me so it may not suit your purpose.
The general outline of the vessel does of course offer some general idea of the build.
If you think a copy may be useful, contact Derek O'Connell at:-
[email protected]
He can give you alternatives how to obtain a copy.
Best Regards
Dave


----------



## donald h

Dave, the website is excellent and I had a good "trawl" through there.
I came across a photo of her for sale on e-bay originally, but when I went back there to view it again, it had been taken off site after being already sold and nothing further has come up anywhere when I`ve googled her name either.
Since I was last on site, by chance I also discovered on my travels around Harris, an old photo of another Harrisman elsewhere who had HMS Wyoming on his cap tally so I am wondering if any further crew were west coasters. Meantime, I will get in touch with Derek however and see whether he can provide a photo.
Thanks very much for your assistance Dave.
best regards, Donald


----------



## davetodd

Donald
Glad to be of help.
Another suggestion is that you might try searching for HMT Wyoming instead of HMS.
That should bring up a site related to "Lossiefowk".
Also you could try http://www.rnps.lowestoft.org.uk/index.htm
Search in the memorial section for Wyoming.
That should find five crew members lost on the date you mentioned.
There is a link on that website to "Harry Tate's" navy which may help your research.
Best of luck
Dave


----------



## donald h

Dave, Thank you for all the new suggestions. I will also have a look at the sites you mention here. Many thanks once again.
Donald


----------



## gil mayes

WYOMING (GY483) (1942-1944)
O.N. 137027. 302g 157n 135.0 x 23.5 x 12.3 feet
T.3-cyl by C.D. Holmes & Co Ltd, Hull

1915: Launched by Cochrane & Sons Ltd, Selby (Yd.No.628) for Atlas Steam Fishing Co Ltd, Grimsby (Letten Bros, managers) as Veresis. 14.4.1915: Registered at Grimsby (GY483). 4.1915: Completed. Requisitioned from the builders for war service (1-6pdr) (Ad.No.1616). 11.1915: Registered at Grimsby (GY483). 1920: Returned. 16.1.1932: Left Icelandic grounds for Grimsby. 16.1.1932: In hurricane swept clean by seas and lost wheelhouse and two compasses. 19.1.1932: Made radio contact and monitored by Merisia (FD153) requested any vessel to give bearing and supply a compass,. Dodging for 36 hours, believed in vicinity of Faroe Islands and then steering by wind. 20.1.1932: Contact made with Lune (FD59) which supplied bearing and confirmed crew safe and no assistance required. 20.1.1932: Arrived Scrabster at 1.20 pm. Took compass and food and sailed 4.10pm. for Grimsby. 22.1.1932: Arrived Grimsby. 9.1936: Sold to Earl Steam Fishing Co, Grimsby (Sir Alec Black Bart, manager). 20.4.1937: Renamed Wyoming (GY483). <?4.1940: Employed on Fishery Protection. 2.6.1940: Requisitioned for war service and employed on auxiliary patrol duties (Hire rate £83.1.0d/month). 12.1940: Sold to Sir Alec Black Bart, Grimsby. 6.1941: Fitted out for minesweeping duties (P.No.FY.1862). 22.4.1942: Sold to Active Steam Fishing Co Ltd, Fleetwood (J. Marr & Son Ltd) for £8100. 20.5.1944: Mined near 54 Buoy, 20 miles ENE of Harwich. Five crew MPK.
(MPK - Alexander Mitchell, 2nd Hand; Bernard McQue Humble, Engineman; John Jordan, stoker; George Sutherland, Ldg Cook; Joseph S. Tester, seaman) 
Gil.


----------



## donald h

Gil, that is pretty impressive info you have trawled out there. It certainly puts a bit more life into the information I can now pass on to TWO Harris families.
Thanks to yourself and Dave for all your very much appreciated assistance.
I have e-mailed Derek O`Connell re: a photograph, but haven`t heard back from him as yet. Would either of you know where I could access a crew list onboard her at the time of her sinking?
Thanks once again for the excellent help given to me.
regards, Donald


----------



## davetodd

Donald
Regarding the crew list of Wyoming at the time of her sinking.
If you check the RNPS website and go to "Further Information" you will see that crew do***ents were handed to each individual when discharged from the service.
Next of kin are allowed to request information from the M.O.D. but it is my experience that very few if any are held.
I suggest that you join the www.harry-tates.org.uk community and pose your questions in the Forum.
I recommend the site to anyone researching WW2 minesweepers etc.
Gil may have other suggestions, such as local newspapers etc.
Regards
Dave


----------



## donald h

Thanks for following up on this Dave. I will do as you suggest and see where that leads.
kind regards,
Donald


----------



## Steve Farrow

donald h said:


> Just a general question guys.
> I am looking for info on behalf of a fellow Harrisman who`s father Murdo Campbell (long deceased) was a crewman onboard the requisitioned trawler WYOMING, FY1862, during ww2.
> A potted history has her as being completed in 1915 as the VERESIS, GY483.
> I have discovered that (as the Wyoming) she was sunk on the 20th May 1944, twenty nautical miles ENE of Harwich. There is also a list of the crew who were killed when she was mined available on the internet.
> However, I am looking to see if there is a photo of her available anywhere, and a list of crew onboard at the time of her sinking, and any other info about the trawler itself.
> I am presuming that as a requisitioned trawler, the crew would have been Patrol Service personnel. Would the RN have a record of service for his dad during this period? He does not know if his dad was MN or RN and he does not have any records whatsoever about his dad`s sea service. I would be very grateful for any help or information regarding the above vessel and crew. Thank you.
> Donald


Donald,

I have only just managed to log back on to S/N after a few computer issues, but thanks to the superb guys that manage this site, the problems have been resolved!
If you send me a PM with your email address I will send some history and a photo of the Veresis.

Regards

Steve


----------



## davetodd

Welcome back Steve.
Have you any hair left?
Dave


----------



## donald h

Hi Dave. I got a copy of the photo in Grimsby library e-mailed from Derek today. It is a bit more distant than I hoped and generally a silhouette type view, but nevertheless gives me a bit of history to pass on where there was none before. Thanks very much for your help.
It is much appreciated.
Donald

btw. pm been sent, Steve.


----------



## Steve Farrow

davetodd said:


> Welcome back Steve.
> Have you any hair left?
> Dave


Dave,

Less hair than a snooker ball, but it's great to be back again! lol.

Steve


----------



## Billrot

Are there any old fisherman left who sailed on the Brandur when we were arrested for illegal fishing


----------



## Jim Sheader

Very interested in this thread Clem I was Skipper of a number of GF Sieights ships in the Fifties Renco Recono Riskato & Righto. When Ross Group took over I took Ross Jaguar in 1957 & Ross Zebra in 1960 Happy Days Keep up the good work Jim Sheader


----------



## Steve Farrow

Hi Jim,

I remember being on a pleasure trip in 1960 with Tom Darwood on the REGARDO, aged just 13, when you were skipper of the ROSS ZEBRA. Both trawlers came up close enough for you both to hold a conversation! Tom was a family friend and I did quite a few trips with him in the school holidays.

Steve


----------



## BBlaikie

*GY 934 Balgownie built 1916 missing 1919*

Is anyone able to help me find out more information on the GY 934 Balgownie official number 115586.

The Balgownie was build in Aberdeen in 1902 and registered at Grimsby 1916.

The Balgownie was requisitioned into the Fishery Reserve in 1917.

My Great Grandfather and Great Uncle were aboard the ship when it went missing and I would like to know if a search was carried out or was it just considered a fatality of war?

The Balgownie went missing Monday, 22 September 1919. We believe the Balgownie was involved in post war minesweeping as both my Great Grandfather and Great Uncle are recorded in the Commonwealth War Graves website.

Thank you to anyone who can provide any information.

My email address is [email protected]

Brenda Blaikie
(Great Grand-daughter of Thomas James Robinson (Skipper) and Great Niece of Christopher Robinson (Steward) of the Balgownie)


----------



## Michael Lowrey

Brenda,

I don't see any evidence that _Balgownie_ was in RN service when she disappeared. Your relations are commemorated on the Tower Hill Memorial, which is for merchant marine, including fishing fleet, who have no known grave. They are listed as "Mercantile Marine", not RNR.

T. Robinson: http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=3032183
R. Robinson: http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=3032160

The RN and CWGC were liberal in granting war-grave status to the crews of missing merchant ships. There were still lots of mines in teh North Ses when _Balgownie_ disappeared, and it apparently was felt that she likely sank on one of them.

Best wishes,
Michael


----------



## Jim Sheader

Steve Farrow said:


> Hi Jim,
> 
> I remember being on a pleasure trip in 1960 with Tom Darwood on the REGARDO, aged just 13, when you were skipper of the ROSS ZEBRA. Both trawlers came up close enough for you both to hold a conversation! Tom was a family friend and I did quite a few trips with him in the school holidays.
> 
> Steve


Good to see your message Steve I have just had a word with Bill Blow I hope you & I will be able to have a yarn on the phone I am sure we will have plenty to talk about


----------



## RayL

Readers of this thread may remember that I did a single voyage on a Ross trawler in the summer of 1968, just for the purpose of keeping my R/O 'ticket' valid.

Yesterday I received notification from the big insurance company that has charge of the Fishermen's Pension Fund that I am now entitled to draw my occupational pension! Every year I will receive £1.

I just thought you might all like to share my joy!


----------



## BBlaikie

*Thank you.*

Thank you Michael.



Michael Lowrey said:


> Brenda,
> 
> I don't see any evidence that _Balgownie_ was in RN service when she disappeared. Your relations are commemorated on the Tower Hill Memorial, which is for merchant marine, including fishing fleet, who have no known grave. They are listed as "Mercantile Marine", not RNR.
> 
> T. Robinson: http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=3032183
> R. Robinson: http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=3032160
> 
> The RN and CWGC were liberal in granting war-grave status to the crews of missing merchant ships. There were still lots of mines in teh North Ses when _Balgownie_ disappeared, and it apparently was felt that she likely sank on one of them.
> 
> Best wishes,
> Michael


----------



## jack barker 53

i would like to thank steve farrow for the picture he did for me regarding the fisherman from freeman street 
cheers jack barker


----------



## Steve Farrow

jack barker 53 said:


> i would like to thank steve farrow for the picture he did for me regarding the fisherman from freeman street
> cheers jack barker


Hello Jack,

If it's the montage of all the people who used the White Bear, then it was probably Dave Allen who did all the work.......I just photographed it and made it into a print! I'm pleased that you liked it, I thought the original spoke volumes about the characters in the frame! 
And thanks to my pal Bryn Jones, your old shipmate.

Regards

Steve


----------



## Capt Flint

*The Tokyo*

I sailed on the Tokyo. Pier head jump well pushed in fact nobody else wanted her. Forrard accommodation. Coal burner. Cook was always drunk. We lived on cold fried fish, cheese and pickled onions, and bread. My first trawler, triple expansion, Taylors, Sailed in, in debt, owing the company money, so had to go back for another trip. She was a wreck. The toilet faced the bridge and had lost its door many years back, so you either pooped and waved to the skipper or went over the stern.


----------



## GolfSierra

This year is the 70th anniversary of the Sinking of the *Salacon GY55* by a mine off Spurn Head. My father was the skipper, Tom Salt, and I am researching for a piece in the Grimsby Evening Telegraph to commemorate the anniversary. I have details of where the trawler was built, the crew when it sank and the article from the Telegraph a couple of days after it sank. I was wondering if anyone could suggest further possible sources of material. 

Also, does anyone have a photo of the Salacon in their archive? Or know of the existence of such a photo. Thanks in advance. 

GS


----------



## davetodd

Hello GS
There is already a thread on this vessel in the Grimsby Fishing vessels forum.
Go to post #1252.
Grimsby Central Library have one photograph of Salacon GY55.
Contact there is Derek O'Connell at:-
[email protected]
He can inform you of options to purchase etc.
The library has a large collection of filmed copies of the local newspaper which may contain further information regarding the loss of this vessel, but it could of course have been censored at the time.
Also some info. at:-
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/grimsby.trawlers/losts.htm
http://www.naval-history.net/xDKWW2-4009-22SEP01.htm
Good Luck with your research.
Dave


----------



## mattarosa

GolfSierra said:


> This year is the 70th anniversary of the Sinking of the *Salacon GY55* by a mine off Spurn Head. My father was the skipper, Tom Salt, and I am researching for a piece in the Grimsby Evening Telegraph to commemorate the anniversary. I have details of where the trawler was built, the crew when it sank and the article from the Telegraph a couple of days after it sank. I was wondering if anyone could suggest further possible sources of material.
> GS



I have a note from the Table of Contents of the Manchester Guardian of 10 September 1940 which says:

"The Grimsby trawler Salesoon has been mined and sunk. Eight of her crew of 12 are missing, four were saved by a boat from another ship".

Could this be the Salacon? If so, there is a short article (172 words) in this edition of the paper but unfortunately, I don't seem to have made a note of it.

You can access the Guardian archive online with a 24 hour subscription (costing £7.95, I think) but you could try your local library in case they have a subscription which you could access for free.

Hilary


----------



## mattarosa

*Salacon*

The following is from the Scotsman newspaper of 9 September 1940:

TRAWLER SUNK BY MINE
Eight Grimsby Men Missing
The Grimsby trawler Salacon was sunk by a mine in the North Sea on Saturday morning. Eight men are missing. 
Shortly after leaving port four survivors returned, having been picked up by another ship's boat. Walter Johnson said, "When we got on deck the water was up to the winch, and the stern was on fire. I cannot swim a stroke, but I grabbed a lifebelt and was picked up with the other survivors 20 minutes later."

Hilary


----------



## Ken Berry

Hi All,
I'm trying to find photos of Hired and Admiralty Trawler Minesweepers.WW1.My Grandad served on them.He never said to me anything more than he loved the Mornings and Evenings when it was a flat sea not to cloudy and watch the Sunrises and Sunsets off the Irish and English Channel Coastline.When he was on Mine sweepers. He couldn't have mentioned much about his war service as my Mum and Dad never said a thing to me either. Him and I were the best mates. My saddest ,moment was I missed his funeral in 1955 as I was at sea. He didn't mind me being down below as long as I promised to get my combined tickets,which I did. He was master on a Tug Waterloo in Liverpool 1911 census,Then Captain on the "Bramley Moore" Tug from 26th August 1926 till he retired one month after the end of WW2 he was 76 years old and as I said he died in 1955.
The names of the trawlers if some one could help or point me in the right direction are:-
"Frascati", "Sesostris", "Touraco", "Pitfour", "Electra II", and "James Pond". Any help would be most appreciated as my Daughters NZer's as are the 9 G/children and 2 G/G/Children (only littlies).I'm beginning to think I'm getting to "'my best used by date"
as they are giving a bit of the old Heave Ho, Best Regards Ken Berry


----------



## rezmopups

*Fisherman lost at sea*

Hi, Hoping someone can offer any info on what happened when a fisherman was lost at sea with the trawler and all hands. As there would be no body, I presume a death certificate couldn't be issued....so would there have been a record of the death anywhere.

I am trying to find dates relating to my Great Grandfather, Charles Collett who was lost aboard the SS Queenborough GY 658 during WW1. He's listed on the Memorial at Tower Hill as the ship was sunk by a u-boat, (U 86), 23/3/1917 according to the u-boat log, although ship listed as missing 30/5/1917......and thanks to all who helped solve the mystery of that one.

Also, can anyone point me in the right direction of what records would hold my Gt Grandfathers date of birth.....I know alot of records, (seaman's pouches), have been lost and I have tried everything I can think of. I only know he was born in abt 1875 somewhere in London. He's not listed in the Grimsby Fishing Apprentices so any ideas on how he would have come to Grimsby seeing as his father was a shoemaker!....although we think Gt Grandfather could have been orphaned at some stage. 

Any help greatly appreciated as always.

Thanks
Debbie


----------



## gkh151

Hi Rezmopups,

Try this link there is info on the crew list of the Queensboro.

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/grimsby.trawlers/index.htm

It may be worth you sendin an e mail to them they may know where to source more info.

Regards.
Graham


----------



## rezmopups

Thanks Graham, will give it a try.
regards
Debbie


----------



## gkh151

Hi Debbie,

There is also some more info on this link.

http://web.ukonline.co.uk/rayricho/1898.htm

Regards
Graham.


----------



## Dave 123

Hi Clem,,, Very new to the site and still finding my way around,,,, got a few nice pics of GY fishing vessels you might like to see,,, Having a bit of trouble up loading them,HELP ,, ,,,,, Regards.... Dave


----------



## mattarosa

Dave 123 said:


> Hi Clem,,, Very new to the site and still finding my way around,,,, got a few nice pics of GY fishing vessels you might like to see,,, Having a bit of trouble up loading them,HELP ,, ,,,,, Regards.... Dave


Hi Dave
Welcome to the Grimsby Trawlers forum on SN. I'm sure we would all love to see your pics. I am not very technical, but if you go to "Gallery" (tab at the top of the page) and then "Upload Photos" you can get a page where you choose which section to put them in (Fishing Vessels) and you can browse your own directory and upload the photos.

If this doesn't help, I am sure one of the guys can explain it to you better.

Hilary


----------



## Per Clausen

*Grimsby Fishing vessel Cle?*

Hello

Can anybody help me with the name and number etc. of a Grimsby fishing vessel with a name beginning with Cle.... I can not see the rest on the photo.

I think the photo is from the late 40's or beginning of the 50's.

Thanks in advance

/Per Clausen


----------



## aavh

Olsen's 1951 has a CLEE on 166669 GY 570. Built Barton on Humber of wood in 1948. 21t nett and 120 hp motor. Owned by Aston Steam Fishing Co Ltd Grimsby. 1961 same info.
1965 Owned by Caledonian Motor Boats (Peterhead) Ltd Grimsby. 1978 same info. 1981 Owned by John D. Salmon & I. B. vase Grimsby 45gt, 21net, 59ft. 1985 Owned by Salfish Ltd Grimsby.


----------



## Per Clausen

Thanks aavh!

Super informations.

Must be the right informations. Fits with the compagny and year i think.

Furthermore I can se on the lifering that the name is very short after the "Cle.."

So Clee must be the one!

/Per


----------



## daveblackham

I don't know where this photo came from, I must have noted it because it was a mystery (to me). Clearly the number is GY440 but I made a note of the name Leason. Is there such a trawler? If not, does anyone know what trawler this is, please?

Time for a tea-break, I think!
Hilary


GY 440
Two options I have found.
First one is Cepheus O.N.9947 on Grimsby register from 1892 to 1916. ( Unlikely)
Second is Leason built 1931 Esbjerg Denmark 30 tons Owner Sonborg Fishing Co. Looks like a probable.


Hi,

I was the part owner of Leason GY440 when she was purchased out of Fishing from Grimsby. Id be happy to respond to any questions about her. She is in Bristol now almost totaly rebuilt. 3 Owners after I had part owned her.

Dave


----------



## mattarosa

davebl said:


> Hi,
> 
> I was the part owner of Leason GY440 when she was purchased out of Fishing from Grimsby. Id be happy to respond to any questions about her. She is in Bristol now almost totaly rebuilt. 3 Owners after I had part owned her.
> 
> Dave



Hello Dave
Thanks for this, and your PM. It's always interesting to hear the fate of ex-Grimsby trawlers, there are so few left. Is Leason still called Leason? I guess she is not fishing any more, what was/is she being used for since you and your co-owners bought her?

Hilary


----------



## Steve Farrow

Hi Hilary & Dave,

I have posted a photo of the anchor seiner LEASON in the Fishing Gallery.

Regards

Steve


----------



## daveblackham

Steve Farrow said:


> Hi Hilary & Dave,
> 
> I have posted a photo of the anchor seiner LEASON in the Fishing Gallery.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Steve


Thanks very much for this.

I can log on but I don't have permission to access the Fishing boat gallery, I can see the thumbnails when not logged on but not then i am logged on. Any Ide how i can get this fixed ?

thanks,

Dave


----------



## GALVIN 2

*S.S. Russell*



mattarosa said:


> Hello everyone
> You are all very quiet.
> 
> Can anyone help me to identify this trawler please? Is it GY192? If so, do you think it is Russell?
> 
> Thanks, as always.
> Hilary


Hello,
I am a new member (just).
The Russell was launched on the 25th of July 1906 (by my Grandmother, Edith Redshaw).
The first owner, according to "National Fishing Research Centre" was W. Garrett. I know nothing of Garrett yet but it is possible my Grandfather worked for them. I know he was the Manager of Geo. F. Sleight Ltd by the 1950's.
I would like to obtain a better copy of the photograph. The one I hoped to obtain from Grimsby Library is missing from its envelope.
Can you please help.


----------



## davetodd

Hello Galvin 2 and Hilary
Steam trawler Russell GY192
Official Number 123585 built 1906 at Beverley. 248/100 tons
Owner 1906 to 1915 W.Garrett. Grimsby
Owner 1915 to 1930 A.Grant & Son. Grimsby
Owner 1930 to 1934 Rugby S.F.Co.Ltd. Grimsby
Owner 1934 to 1957 Taylor S.F.Co.Ltd. Grimsby
1957 Broken up.
During WW1 ( from May 1915 to 1920 ) she had the Admiralty Number N3A and the name Russell II Armament 1- 6 pounder AA gun.
Regards
Dave 
p.s. You are quite correct regarding the missing photograph.
Sadly, this is not an isolated incident as many others are missing from the files.


----------



## GALVIN 2

*Russel*



davetodd said:


> Hello Galvin 2 and Hilary
> Steam trawler Russell GY192
> Official Number 123585 built 1906 at Beverley. 248/100 tons
> Owner 1906 to 1915 W.Garrett. Grimsby
> Owner 1915 to 1930 A.Grant & Son. Grimsby
> Owner 1930 to 1934 Rugby S.F.Co.Ltd. Grimsby
> Owner 1934 to 1957 Taylor S.F.Co.Ltd. Grimsby
> 1957 Broken up.
> During WW1 ( from May 1915 to 1920 ) she had the Admiralty Number N3A and the name Russell II Armament 1- 6 pounder AA gun.
> Regards
> Dave
> p.s. You are quite correct regarding the missing photograph.
> Sadly, this is not an isolated incident as many others are missing from the files.


Many thanks for the detail Dave.
I shall go and look at contemporary Grimsby newspaper archives to see if there is any coverage of this launch.
Patrick.


----------



## Steve Farrow

Hi Patrick,

I only have one photograph of the RUSSELL.......attached here.

Regards

Steve


----------



## GALVIN 2

*The Russell*



Steve Farrow said:


> Hi Patrick,
> 
> I only have one photograph of the RUSSELL.......attached here.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Steve


Hi Steve,
I'm most grateful for the photograph. 
Any chance you could email a larger file to "[email protected]" ?

(I will post anymore stuff I find about Russell, the builder Cook, Welton, Gemmell and the owner Garrett).

Kind Regards,

Patrick


----------



## Steve Farrow

Patrick

I have just emailed the RUSSELL to you

regards

Steve


----------



## GALVIN 2

*Russell*



Steve Farrow said:


> Patrick
> 
> I have just emailed the RUSSELL to you
> 
> regards
> 
> Steve


Many thanks for your trouble. Excellent picture.

Regards,

Patrick.


----------



## Rafal Zahorski

*a contact to attached web site*

Hello,

Sorry for my coming into a discussion but I have been today on quoted here several times place, so:

http://web.ukonline.co.uk/rayricho/index.htm

and I was trying to contact admin by mail:

[email protected]

But e-mail address is wrong. If anybody can give me an actual contact to ray?

Great thanks in advance

Rafal


----------



## Douglas John Gill

I am Edward Cyril Grant's eldest grandson. 
Please can anyone give me a list of his ships and any pictures would be a huge bonus. Also the eventual fate of these ships, most of which I believe were lost during the war.
if anyone knew Cyril I would love to make contact, he died when I was barely 14 years old, though I knew him very well.


----------



## davetodd

Hello Douglas
I will help if I can, some time ago a similar request was made by Will Grant.
Go to post #1735 in the Grimsby Fishing Vessels thread and after reading the replies let me know if you have found what you are looking for.
Regards
Dave


----------



## Douglas John Gill

gil mayes said:


> Will
> If you send me a PM I will give you the history profiles of GREAT ADMIRAL and WARDOUR. The share ownership and mortgages of the former fleshes out a lot of what Dave has written above.
> Gil.


Hi Gil

I would be very grateful if you could send me any info on trawlers owned by Edward Cyril Grant, my late Grandfather.

do you need an email address for me?


----------



## Kerbtrawler

Rafal Zahorski said:


> Hello,
> 
> Sorry for my coming into a discussion but I have been today on quoted here several times place, so:
> 
> http://web.ukonline.co.uk/rayricho/index.htm
> 
> and I was trying to contact admin by mail:
> 
> [email protected]
> 
> But e-mail address is wrong. If anybody can give me an actual contact to ray?
> 
> Great thanks in advance
> 
> Rafal


Try this link http://homepage.ntlworld.com/grimsby.trawlers/

cheers


----------



## GALVIN 2

Steve Farrow said:


> Patrick
> 
> I have just emailed the RUSSELL to you
> 
> regards
> 
> Steve


Hi Steve,
Quite by chance showed the Russell photograph to Nick Taylor (Grimsby) yesterday. He says the funnel livery is Taylor so that would date the photograph to 1934-1957.
Little research progress to date. Grimsby Library have "National Fishing Research Centre: Trawler History" sheets. but on trying to find the "Fisheries Historian: Craig Lazenby" mentioned at the bottom, discovered the summaries are quite old as the NFRC handed over all their stuff to the Library and Lazenby left NFRC 10 years ago.
Must try this librarian "Derek O'Connel" mentioned earlier.

Patrick.


----------



## Ahoy Aussie

Hi,

I just joined the site after a friend informed me that there was a picture of the trawler Russell. I recently started doing my family tree and was always wanting to find out about my Great Grandad arthur Albert Lilly who unfortunately was lost overboard whislt on the Russell in 1908 around the Gorleston coastline.

I contacted the Yarmouth Mercury to see if they had any reference to that incident but apparently not. Does anyone have any suggestions as to where I may be able to obtain any other possible information pertaining this incident? Any advice would be much appreciated.

Btw, does W Garrett still operate in the Grimsby area? They apparently were the owners at the time he was lost. Thank you to Steve Farrow for the picture and Gavin 2 for the boat information - much appreciated.

Regards
David (Ahoy Aussie)


----------



## mattarosa

Ahoy Aussie said:


> Hi,
> 
> 
> I contacted the Yarmouth Mercury to see if they had any reference to that incident but apparently not.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Have you tried the Grimsby Telegraph? They may have reported the incident as Russell was registered at Grimsby.
> 
> Good luck.
> Hilary


----------



## mattarosa

*Gy165*

Good morning everyone

Does anyone know what trawler this is and where the picture was taken?

Any help appreciated.

Hilary


----------



## davetodd

Morning Hilary,
Looks like she could be PACEMAKER GY165.
Built at Buckie in 1970. 25/25 tons.
But I don't know where the location is, or when, sorry.
Regards
Dave


----------



## Steve Farrow

Spot on Dave.....and Hi Hilary, there are two or three photo's of this anchor-seiner in the Fishing Gallery.

Regards

Steve


----------



## cueball44

Does anyone know the fate of the seiners 'Tarrnborg' 'Nordborg' 'Fredricksborg' That sailed from HULL, I did my first trip to sea on the 'Tarrnborg' in 1959, The skipper a Dane was named Harris.


----------



## mattarosa

Steve Farrow said:


> Spot on Dave.....
> 
> Thanks to you both (Dave and Steve).
> Hilary


----------



## Steve Farrow

Hilary,

If you look on the Grimsby Telegraph website today, the headlines are about Norwegian divers finding the wreck of the LAFOREY that was lost with all hands in 1953.

Regards

Steve


----------



## rettopi

*HMT ARCTIC TRAPPER - ex GRIMSBY TRAWLER*



mattarosa said:


> Another ebay mystery to exercise the little grey cells.
> 
> On sale today, a WW2 magazine, dated 1940, including an article entitled:
> 
> Grimsby Trawler Downs 2 Nazi Aircraft
> 
> I have attached a thumbnail.
> 
> Was there really such a ship as the Arctic Trapper? And, if not, is this just wartime censorship concealing the real name of the trawler, or is it hokum?
> 
> Hilary


Hi There
Have just seen this article, yes there was actually a trawler named "ARCTIC TRAPPER" my late father was the "sparkie" RADIO OPERATOR on her when she was still fishing out of GY in 1939, and then when she was taken over by the Admiralty (1939) and sent down to Ramsgate where this incident occurred, my father was still onboard, but was move to another vessel before the HMT ARCTIC TRAPPER was sunl by hitting a mine in the Firth of Forth later in 1940.
I would really appreciate a proper scanned copy of the article that's in the pdf. file, so that I can read it or, could someone point me in the right direction so that I can do this for myself?
Thanks and I hope that this helps everyone
Ian


----------



## ian potterton

cueball44 said:


> Does anyone know the fate of the seiners 'Tarrnborg' 'Nordborg' 'Fredricksborg' That sailed from HULL, I did my first trip to sea on the 'Tarrnborg' in 1959, The skipper a Dane was named Harris.


Taarnborg sailed to the Falkland Islands after the war and did some exploritory fishing there for a period,returned to the UK and fished from North Shields as Coastal Pioneer,scrapped a few years ago.
Nordborg or Nyborg(i forget which),was sold to Grimsby and became Marylin Olesen,scrapped 1994,Fredricksborg was sold to Grimsby and was owened by local shipwrights Brydges and Salmon and foundered in a storm in the North sea 1987


----------



## cueball44

ian potterton said:


> Taarnborg sailed to the Falkland Islands after the war and did some exploritory fishing there for a period,returned to the UK and fished from North Shields as Coastal Pioneer,scrapped a few years ago.
> Nordborg or Nyborg(i forget which),was sold to Grimsby and became Marylin Olesen,scrapped 1994,Fredricksborg was sold to Grimsby and was owened by local shipwrights Brydges and Salmon and foundered in a storm in the North sea 1987


Thank's for the info on the Taarnborg my first trip to sea aged 15, It makes me happy to know she lasted more than 20 years after i sailed on her, longer than the sidewinders which were scrapped after the cod wars,(Thumb)'cueball44'.


----------



## mattarosa

Steve Farrow said:


> Hilary,
> 
> If you look on the Grimsby Telegraph website today, the headlines are about Norwegian divers finding the wreck of the LAFOREY that was lost with all hands in 1953.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Steve


Steve
Sorry I didn't acknowledge your message, I was away for a few days. Thanks for letting me know about this.
Hilary


----------



## mattarosa

rettopi said:


> Hi There
> Have just seen this article, yes there was actually a trawler named "ARCTIC TRAPPER" my late father was the "sparkie" RADIO OPERATOR on her when she was still fishing out of GY in 1939, and then when she was taken over by the Admiralty (1939) and sent down to Ramsgate where this incident occurred, my father was still onboard, but was move to another vessel before the HMT ARCTIC TRAPPER was sunl by hitting a mine in the Firth of Forth later in 1940.
> I would really appreciate a proper scanned copy of the article that's in the pdf. file, so that I can read it or, could someone point me in the right direction so that I can do this for myself?
> Thanks and I hope that this helps everyone
> Ian



Hi Ian
Thanks for the reply to my earlier post. Unfortunately, I did not keep a record of the date of the article nor the publication. If I had, you would possibly have been able to ask your library to request a copy from the British Library.

Have you seen the discussion about Arctic Trapper on this forum? Some of the people contributing here may know of the article, or will certainly know more about Arctic Trapper than I do.

http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthread.php?t=6416

Kind regards
Hilary


----------



## mattarosa

mattarosa said:


> Hi Ian
> 
> Have you seen the discussion about Arctic Trapper on this forum? Some of the people contributing here may know of the article, or will certainly know more about Arctic Trapper than I do.
> 
> Oops, have just noticed you have actually contributed to the discussion so already know about it.
> 
> Hilary


----------



## johngrant

*William Grant*

My great grandfather was William Grant (1853 - 1926) and my grandson is William Grant Laird. It would be thrilling for the young lad (and me) if anyone had a picture of GY25 showing the name William Grant.
Regards John


----------



## johngrant

Post 1820 is my first post, so I was surprised to see that I was in the Merchant Navy and probably about 120 years old! I apologise for this incorrect information - I will try to enter my profile and amend the details which seem to have appeared by default. Not a good start---
Regards John


----------



## cueball44

Could anyone help me find some information on the S.T VARANIS GY 511, My father sailed on her between 10-1-45 and 2-4-45, He also sailed on the WILLIAM PURDY between those dates.'cueball44'


----------



## davetodd

cueball44 said:


> Could anyone help me find some information on the S.T VARANIS GY 511, My father sailed on her between 10-1-45 and 2-4-45, He also sailed on the WILLIAM PURDY between those dates.'cueball44'


cueball44
VARANIS GY511 O.N.127853 built 1909/10 at Selby 258/107 tons.
Owner Arctic S.F.Co.Ltd. Grimsby
WW1 Adm.No. 5 from march 1914 to 1919
WW2 Adm.No. FY1613
Broken up in 1961.
Grimsby Library have two or three photographs of VARANIS.

WILLIAM PURDY SN92 O.N.137361 
Built 1914 at Willington 194/83 tons
Owner Purdy S.F.Co.Ltd. North Shields.
WW1 Adm.No. 801 from November 1914 to 1919.

Regards
Dave


----------



## cueball44

davetodd said:


> cueball44
> VARANIS GY511 O.N.127853 built 1909/10 at Selby 258/107 tons.
> Owner Arctic S.F.Co.Ltd. Grimsby
> WW1 Adm.No. 5 from march 1914 to 1919
> WW2 Adm.No. FY1613
> Broken up in 1961.
> Grimsby Library have two or three photographs of VARANIS.
> 
> WILLIAM PURDY SN92 O.N.137361
> Built 1914 at Willington 194/83 tons
> Owner Purdy S.F.Co.Ltd. North Shields.
> WW1 Adm.No. 801 from November 1914 to 1919.
> 
> Regards
> Dave


Thanks for that Dave, I will write it all down and see if i can find out some more.(Thumb) Regards 'cueball44'.


----------



## davetodd

cueball44 said:


> Thanks for that Dave, I will write it all down and see if i can find out some more.(Thumb) Regards 'cueball44'.


You are welcome cueball44.
Photo of WILLIAM PURDY at:-

http://www.trawlerphotos.co.uk/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=111505&ppuser=16814

Regards
Dave


----------



## cueball44

davetodd said:


> You are welcome cueball44.
> Photo of WILLIAM PURDY at:-
> 
> http://www.trawlerphotos.co.uk/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=111505&ppuser=16814
> 
> Regards
> Dave


Ok got it, Nice little sidewinder, Bet she looked good with a lick of paint, Will i be able to make a photo copy?, thanks again(Thumb)'cueball44'.


----------



## japottinger

Hallo Clem, I have a few GY trawlers around Aberdeen in the 1970's give me time and will did out some.
Jim


----------



## Navn

Hello,

I have just discovered my great grandfather was on the 'Brisbane' out of Grimsby, in c1919. Details below.

I was wondering if anyone could point me to photos of it, or photos of vessels of the same class (sister vessels etc)? Also is there anywhere I could access crew lists for this vessel or others of the same period?

Many thanks,
Alan

*GY.1281 Brisbane*

*Built*: 1903. *Builders*: Cook, Welton & Gemmell, Beverley. *Yard No*: 355. *Launched*: Saturday 10th October 1903. *Completed*: 1903. *Registered*: Monday 9th November 1903. *Gross Tons*: 207. *Nett Tons*: 66. *Length*: 113.8 feet. *Beam*: 21.5 feet. *Depth*: 11.5 feet. *Quarterdeck*: 58 feet. *Forecastle*: 19 feet. *Engines*: C. D. Holmes. 60 NHP. *Speed*: 10½ knots. *Official Number*: 118915.
*Original owners*: William Grant & Henry Croft Baker, Grimsby. 
*1918*
Requisitioned by the Admiralty into the Fishery Reserve.
*Saturday 22nd June 1918*
Sold to A. Grant, Grimsby.
*1919*
Returned to owners.
*Thursday 15th January 1920*
Bought by the Sylvia Steam Fishing Co Ltd, Grimsby.
*Monday 13th March 1922*
Sold to the Dobson Steam Fishing Co Ltd, Grimsby.
*Wednesday 25th February 1931*
To C. Dobson, Grimsby.
*Monday 29th December 1941*
Bought by the Dinas Steam Trawling Co Ltd, Fleetwood.
*Thursday 1st March 1945*
Sold to the Great Grimsby & East Coast Steam Fishing Co Ltd, Grimsby.
*Fate*: Sold for scrap to J. W. Draper & Sons Ltd, Grimsby, on Saturday 22nd May 1954.



From Register of Grimsby Ship Names: 

BRISBANE	118915	1903	1/11	20/1903
BRISBANE	118915	1903-54	1/11	tr folio 282


----------



## davetodd

Navn
The website below have a photograph of BRISBANE GY1281

http://www.float-trawlers.lancashire.gov.uk/index.php?a=wordsearch&s=gallery&w=brisbane

Alternatively, you could ask at the Reference Library, Grimsby, to view the copy they have.
Regards
Dave


----------



## Steve Farrow

Navn,

I've just posted a photo of the Brisbane in the Fishing Gallery.

Steve


----------



## Navn

davetodd said:


> Navn
> The website below have a photograph of BRISBANE GY1281
> 
> http://www.float-trawlers.lancashire.gov.uk/index.php?a=wordsearch&s=gallery&w=brisbane
> 
> Alternatively, you could ask at the Reference Library, Grimsby, to view the copy they have.
> Regards
> Dave


Thanks, Dave

I intend to visit the Library next week. Just checking to see what may be online first.

Alan


----------



## Navn

Steve Farrow said:


> Navn,
> 
> I've just posted a photo of the Brisbane in the Fishing Gallery.
> 
> Steve


Hi Steve,

I tried viewing the image but it say's I don't have permission to view that gallery, and the gallery only shows up when I'm not signed in.

Edited to add: Scrub that, I worked out I had to subscribe to the gallery group in my user control panel.

Many thanks, Steve

Alan


----------



## Navn

*Courser*

I believe there may have been 2 vessels out of Grimsby with the name Courser:

1. Courser, official no: 118921, register date:1904-05. This ship apparently ran aground on Orkney, 1905. It looks like the Elk/Enderby may have taken its number as all three are listed as GY1287 at: http://homepage.ntlworld.com/grimsby.trawlers/

2. Courser, official no: 122698, registered: 1905-47.

It looks like my great grandfather (again) was listed on the crew of the Courser, 1911. This is from a Grimsby Archives website search, but a port number isn't listed, just the name and official no. I'm assuming this relates to the second vessel above but can find much more info.

I plan to visit the GY Archives soon, but would welcome any thoughts. Thanks.


----------



## davetodd

There were two vessels as you have said.
1. GY1287 O.N.118921 LOST 1905
2. GY79 O.N.122698 to Granton as GN33 broken up 1952
More info. at the website below. 
http://www.grantontrawlers.com/Trawlers/Courser GN 33.htm
Regards
Dave


----------



## Navn

davetodd said:


> There were two vessels as you have said.
> 1. GY1287 O.N.118921 LOST 1905
> 2. GY79 O.N.122698 to Granton as GN33 broken up 1952
> More info. at the website below.
> http://www.grantontrawlers.com/Trawlers/Courser GN 33.htm
> Regards
> Dave


That's brilliant, Dave

Another good site to bookmark!

Many thanks,
Alan

ps: if anyone comes across a photo of this vessel (GY 79), I'd be very pleased to know!


----------



## cueball44

Navn said:


> That's brilliant, Dave
> 
> Another good site to bookmark!
> 
> Many thanks,
> Alan
> 
> ps: if anyone comes across a photo of this vessel (GY 79), I'd be very pleased to know!


Would this be the (GY 79 Gordons Charge)? 'cueball44'.


----------



## Navn

cueball44 said:


> Would this be the (GY 79 Gordons Charge)? 'cueball44'.


Hi cueball44

I can't see the 'Gordans Charge' mentioned on the link Dave gave:
http://www.grantontrawlers.com/Trawlers/Courser GN 33.htm

Only the 'Courser' and 'Cavalcade' are listed.

I'd be interested in a pic whatever it was named at the time though.


----------



## cueball44

Navn said:


> Hi cueball44
> 
> I can't see the 'Gordans Charge' mentioned on the link Dave gave:
> http://www.grantontrawlers.com/Trawlers/Courser GN 33.htm
> 
> Only the 'Courser' and 'Cavalcade' are listed.
> 
> I'd be interested in a pic whatever it was named at the time though.


It was included on a list of all Grimsby fishing vessells. That one was from the year 1887. It did not say what kind of vessell it was though. It was owned by W.J. SCOTT HOOD.'cueball44'.


----------



## Navn

cueball44 said:


> It was included on a list of all Grimsby fishing vessells. That one was from the year 1887. It did not say what kind of vessell it was though. It was owned by W.J. SCOTT HOOD.'cueball44'.


Found the list (or similar ones) from the Grimsby Archives site: http://www.nelincs.gov.uk/art-culture-and-leisure/records-and-archives/free-indexes-topic-guides/ . It was obviously an earlier vessel. Listed for GY79 are:

79 MARS 30 Aug 1860 

79 GORDON’S CHARGE 1887-96 

79 COURSER 1905-47


----------



## Bob S

*Vessel identity required*

Hi, 

Anyone know the identity of the wooden hulled vessel alongside the ROSS TIGER thats preserved in Grimsby by the Fishing Heritage Centre?

Regards

Bob


----------



## davetodd

Bob S said:


> Hi,
> 
> Anyone know the identity of the wooden hulled vessel alongside the ROSS TIGER thats preserved in Grimsby by the Fishing Heritage Centre?
> 
> Regards
> 
> Bob


Bob
That would be the ex ESTHER ex G.I.C. built Grimsby 1880's.
More info. at the website below.
Regards
Dave
http://www.nationalhistoricships.org.uk/ships_register.php?action=ship&id=170


----------



## Bob S

Many thanks Dave for the info & website link.

Cheers

Bob


----------



## grahamhussey

Hi 
could someone let me know how the ON works please is it to do with the length or weight or even where it was built seems it bit confusing when a vessel has a ON in one olsens and not in another or is this just a typo
thanks 

Gray


----------



## davetodd

A good question Gray.
As a start, it may help to read the intro. at the following website:-

http://www.mariners-l.co.uk/ON1.htm

Regards
Dave


----------



## grahamhussey

Cheers Dave i have emailed them and i'll let yo know what the outcome is 
regards 
Gray


----------



## mattarosa

I read recently that some photographs had been found in Lincoln showing some of the first diesel trawlers to be built for the Grimsby fishing fleet. I have attached the article, which may have been in the Grimsby Telegraph.

The photographs were sold at auction in Brigg in September, and I think someone paid quite a lot for them. I wonder whether they will now be hidden away in another wardrobe or whether we will ever get the chance to see them.

Does anyone know anything about them?

Hilary


----------



## mikeymikey

*gy14*

Is there anyone who knows whether there exist a photo of the ship or even better the ships crew of the riviere (gy14). The ship sank in 1953 with my grandfather on board. Samuel Dobson. I know quite alot now about the ship itself and the other crew members but have been unable to find any photos. Maybe there are relatives of the other crew members out there?. It is even possible that the 3 surviving crew members are still alive? Any help would be greatly appreciated even if it is just a point in the right direction.

Many thanks

Mike


----------



## Steve Farrow

Mike,

I've been trying to get a photo of her for years but I spoke to John Dunham, the skippers son, and he said he has a good photo of her. The next time I see him I'll pursue it.

Regards

Steve


----------



## mikeymikey

*Thanks*

Many thanks steve, i have been trying to put together a portfolio of his life for my father. It is amazing how much information is out there if you know where to look or in this case who to ask. It is easy to see why there is so much interest i have found it completely absorbing going through the old photos knowing that this was what grimsby and my own family, all fishermen or merchant navy, was all about for a good many years

Many thanks 

Mike


----------



## Steve Farrow

Mike,

Did you read the series that became a book, 'Grand Old Ladies' by Steve Richards? He wrote an article in 1983 about the sinking of the Reviere. I have a copy if you'd like me to email it to you. I have some good photo's of her sister-ships if you need any.

Steve


----------



## mikeymikey

Thanks for that steve, ive just been on amazon and managed to order a copy of the book. Should be here by the weekend. Would like to see pictures of sister ship will try and send you my email address. Again many thanks
Mike


----------



## billblow

An editorial published in the Grimsby Evening Telegraph under the heading of “THIS IS A BITTER PRICE TO PAY” printed a few months after the loss of the Riviere gives this list of 12 months of losses.
February 18th 1953 the Sheldon given up lost with all 14 hands.
March 23rd 1953 the Leicester City wrecked on the Island of Hoy 7 men lost.
June 10th 1953 the Reviere sunk in collision with 9 lives lost.
September 18th 1953 the Hassett wrecked near Wick with the loss of 5 lives
February 8th 1954 the Laforey wrecked on the Norwegian coast all of her crew of 20 lost.
A total of 55 lives lost in a year not counting the odd man lost every few months which would bring the total nearer 60
A hard and bitter price to pay
billblow.


----------



## wahwerit

Birgir
I am Mark Wahwerit grandson of Sydney Wahwerit the mate on GY858 the Sargon I am and have been trying for some time to find out any and all information on what happened. I know theres footage and pictures but havent been able to get hold of any. My grandfather died in 1974 when I was 5 years old , my father is also called Sydney and also was a fisherman from Hull and Grimsby . If you know of anything that could help please let me know. Ive been e mailing the museum but they didnt give much help . There was talk of my grandfather recieving an award in the shape of a book from the Icelandic government and they asked his permission for a film to be made and thats all I know except that everyone died on the bridge and he couldnt rescue his friend as he was frozen to the whaleback and Sydney had collapsed with the cold and exposure when he came to he set fire to the wheelhouse as a signal and to keep everyone warm and he set the bosuns chair up and made sure the older men went first he also spent the night on the cliff with the cabin boy who had a serious head injury and kept him warm and sheltered him from the wind kept him alive . This man meet my father and told him and wept but he was the last survivor and has since died so i cannot find out any more


----------



## gkh151

Hi Mark,

You may find the links below to be of interest.

http://www.timegun.org/tough_trawler.html

http://www.plimsoll.org/resources/SCCLibraries/WreckReports/14176.asp

Graham


----------



## gkh151

Mark,

The following contain a video clip,pictures and more infomation. I hope you find it of interest.

http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=19850

http://www.fleetwood-trawlers.info/?p=8550

http://hulltrawler.net/Sidewinder/Vessel - S/SARGON GY 858.htm

Graham


----------



## wahwerit

*Sargon*



mattarosa said:


> Now I am wondering whether there was only one Sargon after all because I found this little piece in the Times in 1953.
> 
> The Times, Tuesday, Feb 17, 1953
> Grimsby, Feb 16
> No news has been received of the Grimsby trawler Sheldon, of 278 tons, which was last heard of on January 30 and was due back today from a voyage to the Faroes. The owners, Sir Thomas Robinson and Son, state that they have not yet abandoned hope, and that the Sheldon is presumed to be drifting helplessly, as was her sister ship, the Sargon, missing for seven weeks in 1923.
> 
> So it looks as if the Sargon presumed lost in 1923 was found, but for some reason, the Times is silent about this good news.
> 
> Anyone know more about this story?
> 
> Hilary


There was only one sargon GY858 she sailed from Grimsby and was reported lost in 1923 but managed to limp home some weeks later. Then she was used by the navy in the war and then sailed out of Hull My grandfather Sydney Wahwerit was mate when she was finally lost in patreksfjord Iceland 1/12/1948


----------



## gkh151

Hi Mark Wahwerit,

As you say there was only one Sargon GY858. The Sheldon mentioned in the quote of Hilary's was GY 696 and the dates they where lost is five years apart.

Did you look at the links I find you hope they where of interest.

Graham


----------



## wahwerit

Yes thanks there s a film of her sat in grimsby dock in 1923 . Makes you think how theyd travel all the way to Iceland in a boat that small. My grandad Syd Wahwerit did get a bravery award but it was lost after he passed away it was an embossed book with an inscription . My dad also called Syd works at the fishing heritage center on the Ross Tiger he was a fisherman to.Theres supposed to be a german film of the rescue but I cant get hold of it . I just want it for my dad and my son and also to piece together what happened I know Fred Collins the youngest member of the crew told my dad how brave my grandad was when they met a few years ago and if it wasnt for him him and the rest of the crew wouldnt have made it. Its a puzzler. Thanks for the links Graham


----------



## Steve Farrow

I had a copy of the filming of the Sargon coming ashore. It was filmed by a German camera crew who were about to re-enact the loss of the Dhoon, when the Sargon appeared out of the snowstorm. My tape was lent out and never returned but I shall make enquiries. I met Fred Collins when he came over to Cleethorpes a few years ago to see the film for the first time and it reduced the poor man to tears. I thought the Fishing Heritage Centre in Grimsby had some copies but I could be mistaken.

Steve


----------



## Andrew Hicks

I've just joined this forum as I am researching the life of a man who 'ran away to sea' and worked as a trimmer on Grimbsby trawlers in the early thirties.

'Jack' Jones (Emrys Reynolds Jones) was born in 1913, the son of a preacher against whom he rebelled. He was a published poet, rode speedway and in 1940 registered as a conscientious objector and sailed off to China where he did relief work for the Quakers. In 1956 he became world famous for his novel, "A Woman of Bangkok", a saucy Suzie Wong story.

So what can I learn about the Grimbsby interlude? Are there archives of seamen that can be accessed? And how can I research his life at sea?

I have no idea where to start and hope someone can help.

Andrew


----------



## johnblack5

Andrew Hicks said:


> I've just joined this forum as I am researching the life of a man who 'ran away to sea' and worked as a trimmer on Grimbsby trawlers in the early thirties.
> 
> 'Jack' Jones (Emrys Reynolds Jones) was born in 1913, the son of a preacher against whom he rebelled. He was a published poet, rode speedway and in 1940 registered as a conscientious objector and sailed off to China where he did relief work for the Quakers. In 1956 he became world famous for his novel, "A Woman of Bangkok", a saucy Suzie Wong story.
> 
> So what can I learn about the Grimbsby interlude? Are there archives of seamen that can be accessed? And how can I research his life at sea?
> 
> I have no idea where to start and hope someone can help.
> 
> Andrew


The best source is to talk to the ladies in the Libary in Grimsby, they really are most helpful. I would suggest you search for his name in the crew lists. If you read my notes where I searched for my Grandfather John Smith a Grimsby Skipper you will find other sources of information.
Good luck

John


----------



## Andrew Hicks

johnblack5 said:


> The best source is to talk to the ladies in the Libary in Grimsby, they really are most helpful. I would suggest you search for his name in the crew lists. If you read my notes where I searched for my Grandfather John Smith a Grimsby Skipper you will find other sources of information.
> Good luck
> 
> John


John, 

Thanks so much. 

Can you give me details on how to contact the library and where do I find the notes you wrote about your grandfather?

I think we are getting warm and quickly too!

Andrew


----------



## johnblack5

johnblack5 said:


> The best source is to talk to the ladies in the Libary in Grimsby, they really are most helpful. I would suggest you search for his name in the crew lists. If you read my notes where I searched for my Grandfather John Smith a Grimsby Skipper you will find other sources of information.
> Good luck
> 
> John


Forum is Grimsby Fishing Vessels, look for "johnblack5". Use Google for Libary and crew lists.

John


----------



## johnblack5

johnblack5 said:


> Forum is Grimsby Fishing Vessels, look for "johnblack5". Use Google for Libary and crew lists.
> 
> John


Have a look on this site for crew lists

http://www.crewlist.org.uk/findingonindexes.html#online

John


----------



## Andrew Hicks

johnblack5 said:


> Have a look on this site for crew lists
> 
> http://www.crewlist.org.uk/findingonindexes.html#online
> 
> John


Thanks for this. 

I had a very prompt and helpful email reply from NE Lincs Council library and have had a look at the crewlist site. The obstacle seems to be that archives are listed by ship's name or number not the man, and I have no name for Jack's fishing boat.

I'll have another look at the crew list link, but I think I am stuck unless anyone has any ideas how to find the man.

He was Emrys Reynolds Jones, a hand on a Grimsby trawler in the early thirties.

Thanks again,

Andrew


----------



## cueball44

Andrew Hicks said:


> Thanks for this.
> 
> I had a very prompt and helpful email reply from NE Lincs Council library and have had a look at the crewlist site. The obstacle seems to be that archives are listed by ship's name or number not the man, and I have no name for Jack's fishing boat.
> 
> I'll have another look at the crew list link, but I think I am stuck unless anyone has any ideas how to find the man.
> 
> He was Emrys Reynolds Jones, a hand on a Grimsby trawler in the early thirties.
> 
> Thanks again,
> 
> Andrew


It will be nearly impossible to find a site where they list ALL trawler crews, the only list's that i have come accross are the one's for the lost trawlermen.(Read)'cueball44'


----------



## johnblack5

Andrew Hicks said:


> John,
> 
> Thanks so much.
> 
> Can you give me details on how to contact the library and where do I find the notes you wrote about your grandfather?
> 
> I think we are getting warm and quickly too!
> 
> Andrew


Andrew

This site may help you. If you can just find his name in a crew list it may well give you an address and the name of the Trawler.

John


----------



## johnblack5

johnblack5 said:


> Andrew
> 
> This site may help you. If you can just find his name in a crew list it may well give you an address and the name of the Trawler.
> 
> John


Sorry, forgot the site.

http://www.crewlist.org.uk/findingonindexes.html#online


John


----------



## Andrew Hicks

johnblack5 said:


> Sorry, forgot the site.
> 
> http://www.crewlist.org.uk/findingonindexes.html#online
> 
> 
> John


Thanks for this.

It's a remarkable resource but I've now gone through it without coming up with anything.

I now need a small miracle to find Emrys Reynolds Jones, the Grimsby poet and trimmer.

Andrew


----------



## Andrew Hicks

Andrew Hicks said:


> Thanks for this.
> 
> It's a remarkable resource but I've now gone through it without coming up with anything.
> 
> I now need a small miracle to find Emrys Reynolds Jones, the Grimsby poet and trimmer.
> 
> Andrew


A small miracle has now happened.

Reading one of Jack's short stories, one of the characters sails on the Grimsby trawler, Helios. As much of what he writes is auto-biographical, this has to be his real fishing boat.

I checked with the library archivist in Grimsby who was more than helpful and, yes, the Helios sailed from 1903 to 1952 (good innings) under port number GY784 and on official number 113238.

They cannot help further so I have been on an unmagical mystery tour of web records in Kew, Greenwich, Southampton and Newfoundland. Each time I hit a brick wall, wondering whether these records really relate to a small fishing boat. I have found nothing here nor from following the link to www.crewlist.org.uk.

So now I need the big miracle, or a reader on this forum, to help me find Emrys Reynolds Jones who sailed out of Grimsby in the early thirties.

I'd be really grateful if anyone can help further.

Andrew


----------



## johnblack5

Andrew Hicks said:


> A small miracle has now happened.
> 
> Reading one of Jack's short stories, one of the characters sails on the Grimsby trawler, Helios. As much of what he writes is auto-biographical, this has to be his real fishing boat.
> 
> I checked with the library archivist in Grimsby who was more than helpful and, yes, the Helios sailed from 1903 to 1952 (good innings) under port number GY784 and on official number 113238.
> 
> They cannot help further so I have been on an unmagical mystery tour of web records in Kew, Greenwich, Southampton and Newfoundland. Each time I hit a brick wall, wondering whether these records really relate to a small fishing boat. I have found nothing here nor from following the link to www.crewlist.org.uk.
> 
> So now I need the big miracle, or a reader on this forum, to help me find Emrys Reynolds Jones who sailed out of Grimsby in the early thirties.
> 
> I'd be really grateful if anyone can help further.
> 
> Andrew


Enter GY784 into Google, bags of info.


John


----------



## johnblack5

johnblack5 said:


> Enter GY784 into Google, bags of info.
> 
> 
> John


I had a minute so I quickly found that in the period you are looking at the boat was owned by "Thomas Robinson & Sons Ltd (Grimsby). If you enter that name into Google it shows that the records of this company are held in the North Lincs Archives, they include crew lists.

I think you are on your way now. There are also some organisations in Grimsby who meet to discuss olkd times, do not be afraid to ask them for help, I cannot remember the names but Google may bring results.

Good luck


John


----------



## gkh151

Hi Andrew,

If you take a look at the following link there is information about the history of the helios there.

http://www.fleetwood-trawlers.info/?p=1342

Hope this is of help.

Regards
Graham


----------



## davetodd

Looks like you are getting there Andrew. Some helpful advice already given by members.
Grimsby Central Library have a photograph of HELIOS GY784.
Contact either:-
[email protected]
or
[email protected]

Crew lists ( partial ) for Grimsby vessels can be found at:-

http://80.6.94.208/DServe/DServe.exe?dsqApp=Archive&dsqDb=Catalog&dsqCmd=Search.tcl

Type Helios in the any text box for a try, unfortunately, these crew lists only run up tp 1911 or so.
Many records were destroyed some time back during a fire.
Progress is being made to digitise the existing records but will take quite a few years I would imagine.

Best of luck 
Regards
Dave


----------



## Steve Farrow

Dave,

The Grimsby Library published a small book about 35? years ago called "The Lock Pit Jump" the story of a trimmer and his amusing escapades during the trip. It was lavishly filled with cartoons by the writer. Can you recall his name?

Steve


----------



## davetodd

Steve Farrow said:


> Dave,
> 
> The Grimsby Library published a small book about 35? years ago called "The Lock Pit Jump" the story of a trimmer and his amusing escapades during the trip. It was lavishly filled with cartoons by the writer. Can you recall his name?
> 
> Steve


Sorry Steve, don't know it, but will enquire on my next visit.
A phone call to 01472 323628 might bear fruit, if you are reading this Andrew
Regards
Dave


----------



## Ullaholm

Hello!

Is there anybody out there, who knows anything about Gypsy Love, build in 1935, Marstrand in Sweden.
The boat was owned by the Marstrand Fishing Company in Grimsby ( the same company that owned Girl Pat), until 1937/38, when they sold it back to Sweden. to a little shippingcompany called Richard Eliasson. Back in Sweden, the boat got the name Zenit.

I have a reason to believe that Gypsy Love is the same boat that are mentioned in the history of Dod Orsbourne about Girl Pat. Gypsy Love was the boat they took/stoled first, but when they realised that the engine was bad, they prefered to take Girl Pat instead. ( as I have understood the story/ the book) From the swedish story of the boat, it's mentioned that in 1937 they changed the engine, to a new and a bigger one. Which cleares up the fact that the engine WAS bad, and they needed a new one.

The case is that me and my friends, are the lucky owner of Gypsy Love, now called Ullaholm, and has been a fishboat in Norway for over 40 years. Now the boat is just an antique old boat, which is in use of vacation, trips and fun.

You see, my biggest wish of the earth, is a picture of Gypsy Love, a.k.a Ullaholm, with the name Gypsy Love at the front, or maybe a picture of Girl Pat and Gypsy Love lying together in the harbor. Maybe there also information about Gypsy Love. Anything really!

We have a lots of information, about the boat, when it was in Sweden and Norway. But very little of the story, when it was in Grimsby. Exept for the few words in the story about Girl Pat.

I would be preciated if anyone had just a sentence information about Gipsy Love, when it was owned by the Marstrand fishing company in Grimsby, England.

Thanks

Tom Henrik Muggerud, Ulsteinvik - Norway
http://www.ullaholm.no
Reply With Quote


----------



## mattarosa

Steve Farrow said:


> Dave,
> 
> The Grimsby Library published a small book about 35? years ago called "The Lock Pit Jump" the story of a trimmer and his amusing escapades during the trip. It was lavishly filled with cartoons by the writer. Can you recall his name?
> 
> Steve


Steve
The author was called Frederick Griffiths. It was published in 1984.
Hilary


----------



## Steve Farrow

mattarosa said:


> Steve
> The author was called Frederick Griffiths. It was published in 1984.
> Hilary


Hilary,

Thanks for that.......I will keep an eye out for another copy but I doubt if I'll manage to find one!

Regards

Steve


----------



## Steve Farrow

Does anyone know which was the last Grimsby trawler to fish at Iceland?


----------



## gkh151

Hi Steve,

I seem to recall that somewhere I read that it was one of consolidated beetle boats either the carlisle or crystal palace and then sold to Colne Shipping.Don't take this as 100% reliable though.

Regards
Graham


----------



## Steve Farrow

Thanks Graham, I agree........a beetle boat, just can't say for definate bur it must be recorded somewhere!
What sort of photography are you interested in?

Regards

Steve


----------



## gkh151

Hi Steve,

I will see if I can find any more info regarding the beetle boats and will let you know what I find.

My photography interests are mainly nature and landsacpe but I do spend some time photographing the ships that are in the humber,just a shame there not trawlers(real ships)


regards
Graham


----------



## clearway1

hi does anybody know history of the trawler hm james ludford my father was only surviver from sunk off tyne 14/12/1939 and any pics of her?she was a mersea class minesweeper any help? regards clearway1


----------



## gkh151

Clearway 1

Ther are details of the wreck here

http://www.wrecksite.eu/wreck.aspx?64054

And a list of the crew that where lost here

http://www.naval-history.net/xDKCas1939-12DEC.htm

Hope this helps you.

Regards.
Graham


----------



## gkh151

Clearway 1,

I have also found this

http://www.rnps.lowestoft.org.uk/memorial/memorial_date1.htm

Look down the list then next to the ships crew list click panel 1 column 1 and it brings up a photo of the memorial

Graham


----------



## gkh151

Clearway1

Navy trawler James Ludford

Built Cochrane and Sons (Selby)

Launched june 1918

Commisioned 1st May 1919

Mersey class 

Pennant Number T16.

Graham


----------



## clearway1

thanks for the information on the james ludford, as my father was sole survivor his name is not mentioned,I know he was mentioned in dispatches his name was william sutherland rnr would it have been mentioned in local paper at the time? also sadly my uncle andrew sutherland perished on the trawler hmt myrtle thames estuary 1940/41? was that a grimsby trawler as well, I know they all trained in lowestoft,all being fishermen from north scotland they where quickly put into the patrol service regards neil


----------



## Steve Farrow

clearway1 said:


> hi does anybody know history of the trawler hm james ludford my father was only surviver from sunk off tyne 14/12/1939 and any pics of her?she was a mersea class minesweeper any help? regards clearway1


Here is a photo of one her sister ships the JAMES JONES as the CHERWELL. 

Hope this helps!

Steve


----------



## clearway1

*trawler james ludford*



Steve Farrow said:


> Here is a photo of one her sister ships the JAMES JONES as the CHERWELL.
> 
> Hope this helps!
> 
> Steve


hi steve was she a mersey class trawler as well then ,did they all start with james?regards neil


----------



## gkh151

Clearway1

There where 11 Mersey class and only 2 of them where lost 1 being the James Ludford the other being the ouse. Look here for full list including another photo and and info about there armament.

http://www.uboat.net/allies/warships/class.html?ID=335

Regards.

Graham


----------



## clearway1

Steve Farrow said:


> Here is a photo of one her sister ships the JAMES JONES as the CHERWELL.
> 
> Hope this helps!
> 
> Steve


many thanks,regards neil


----------



## clearway1

gkh151 said:


> Clearway1
> 
> There where 11 Mersey class and only 2 of them where lost 1 being the James Ludford the other being the ouse. Look here for full list including another photo and and info about there armament.
> 
> http://www.uboat.net/allies/warships/class.html?ID=335
> 
> Regards.
> 
> Graham


great info found both trawlers ie,james ludford& my uncles trawler the myrtle,but trying to find mentiond in dipatches any ideas? regards neil


----------



## gkh151

Clearway 1

Hi Neil,

You may well find more info on the link below. It has loads about the naval battles of world wars 1 & 2. Be warned you have to be prepared to do a lot of reading but it is often worth it. Good Luck.

http://www.naval-history.net/

Graham


----------



## davetodd

Ullaholm said:


> Hello!
> 
> Is there anybody out there, who knows anything about Gypsy Love, build in 1935, Marstrand in Sweden.
> The boat was owned by the Marstrand Fishing Company in Grimsby ( the same company that owned Girl Pat), until 1937/38, when they sold it back to Sweden. to a little shippingcompany called Richard Eliasson. Back in Sweden, the boat got the name Zenit.
> 
> I have a reason to believe that Gypsy Love is the same boat that are mentioned in the history of Dod Orsbourne about Girl Pat. Gypsy Love was the boat they took/stoled first, but when they realised that the engine was bad, they prefered to take Girl Pat instead. ( as I have understood the story/ the book) From the swedish story of the boat, it's mentioned that in 1937 they changed the engine, to a new and a bigger one. Which cleares up the fact that the engine WAS bad, and they needed a new one.
> 
> The case is that me and my friends, are the lucky owner of Gypsy Love, now called Ullaholm, and has been a fishboat in Norway for over 40 years. Now the boat is just an antique old boat, which is in use of vacation, trips and fun.
> 
> You see, my biggest wish of the earth, is a picture of Gypsy Love, a.k.a Ullaholm, with the name Gypsy Love at the front, or maybe a picture of Girl Pat and Gypsy Love lying together in the harbor. Maybe there also information about Gypsy Love. Anything really!
> 
> We have a lots of information, about the boat, when it was in Sweden and Norway. But very little of the story, when it was in Grimsby. Exept for the few words in the story about Girl Pat.
> 
> I would be preciated if anyone had just a sentence information about Gipsy Love, when it was owned by the Marstrand fishing company in Grimsby, England.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Tom Henrik Muggerud, Ulsteinvik - Norway
> http://www.ullaholm.no
> Reply With Quote


Tom
I have sent an e-mail to you with some information, but have not found any photographs.
Regards
Dave


----------



## Steve Farrow

A new book is in the shops.....TRAWLER DISASTERS 1946- 75 From Aberdeen, Fleetwood, Hull & Grimsby. John Nicklin and Patricia O'Driscoll. £17.99

Steve


----------



## gkh151

Steve

You can buy it on amazon from £9.23

regards
Graham


----------



## Ullaholm

*Ullaholm/Gypsy Love, Grimsby 1935*



davetodd said:


> Tom
> I have sent an e-mail to you with some information, but have not found any photographs.
> Regards
> Dave



Hello Dave!

I can't see that I have recevied an e-mail from you, about the information about our boat "Ullaholm" a.k.a Gypsy Love from Grimsby. 
I hope you can send it to me once again.

Regards

Tom Henrik Muggerud
Ullaholm


----------



## gkh151

Hi Tom

is this the ship you are looking for

http://www.marinetraffic.com/ais/no/showallphotos.aspx?mmsi=257106740

Regards
Graham


----------



## Ullaholm

*Ullaholm/Gypsy Love, Grimsby 1935*



gkh151 said:


> Hi Tom
> 
> is this the ship you are looking for
> 
> http://www.marinetraffic.com/ais/no/showallphotos.aspx?mmsi=257106740
> 
> Regards
> Graham


Yes, this is the ship. This is from July this year, when we were leaving Molde City, in Norway, after the traditionally festival Moldejazz.It is my girlfriend who's sitting on deck. If you have any information about the boat l would be preciated! 

The boat was knowned as "Gipsy Love" or "Gypsy Love", owned by Marstrand Fishing Co. in Grimsby in the mid' thirties. 

Regards

Tom Henrik
Ullaholm


----------



## gkh151

Hi Tom

I knew I had seen something about this and I have realised I have some publications from the local newspaper called trawler years. In issue No1 there are two stories about the seiners and one is the story of the girl pat and gypsy love is mentioned it seems that Steve Farrow wrote the article so he may be the one to contact. You may wish to PM him.
If you send an e-mail to bygones at grimsbytelegraph.co.uk you should be able to find out if they still have a copy.
You want Trawler years issue No1 published 3rd December 2007.

Regards

Graham


----------



## gkh151

Tom

This may also be of interest to you. Taken from the Grimsby port register.

Gypsy Love official No 16494 years in register 1935-1938 NELA ref365/1/17 Entry No 18/1935.

Girl Pat official no 162904 years in register 1935-1939 NELA ref 365/1/17 Entry No 13/1935

http://redirect.nelincs.gov.uk/leisure/archives/registeredandlostships.htm

Full details about the register are in the above link along with their contact details. You may have some luck there.

Regards

Graham


----------



## davetodd

Ullaholm said:


> Hello Dave!
> 
> I can't see that I have recevied an e-mail from you, about the information about our boat "Ullaholm" a.k.a Gypsy Love from Grimsby.
> I hope you can send it to me once again.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Tom Henrik Muggerud
> Ullaholm


hello Tom,
I used the kontact address on your Ullaholm website....
[email protected]....
if this is wrong can you give a correct address for e-mail ?
Regards
Dave


----------



## trevpotter

*trevor potter*

hi has anyone got a pic of ross eagle


----------



## gkh151

Hi Trevor,

You will find a photo on the link below

http://deepseatrawlers.co.uk/page_1230993958708.html

regards

Graham


----------



## AWoods

*John Abel Job Woods*



Irwing said:


> My great-grandfather John Abel Job Woods (b 1878) was an engineer on Grimsby trawlers. I have recently been told by a family member that he served as an engineer on minesweepers (RNR) in WWI but I have no do***entary evidence to support that (although medals were issued). I would like to find out about the fishing vessels on which he served.


Hello - I think my grandfather Arthur Frederick Woods (b1880ish) was John Abel Job Woods brother. Arthur Woods was an electrical fitter of trams. Their father was John Abel Woods and their mother was Martha. I don't know anything much at all about Job or their family and would love to find out more and see photographs of the family if possible.


----------



## Steve Farrow

*Ross Eagle*



trevpotter said:


> hi has anyone got a pic of ross eagle


I have just posted a photo of the ROSS EAGLE in the Fishing Gallery

regards

Steve


----------



## linzandkev

Hi, I come from a Grimsby fishing family, my ancesters were from Grimsby. I know my great grandad Stephen Stiff used to live at Castle Street my grandma was born there. I know her brothers also went to work on the trawlers aswell. My great great grandad was Edwin Green Smith from Grimsby, his fishing log from 1884-1888 was published in the 60's my dad used to have a copy but dont know what happened to it. How can i find out what trawlers my ancesters worked on or if theres any photo's. I've been on Ancestry for a few years but cant seem to find anything apart from census. Any help would be most greatful, thank you.

Kind regards 

Lindsey


----------



## gkh151

Hi Lindsey,

If you look at this link there is a referance to him may be worth a look.

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/bfchester/gyfh/librarylist.html

Regards 
Graham


----------



## davetodd

Hello Lindsey
If you go to the N.E.Lincs website below and type in the name (stiff) in the "Any text" box you should be able to find :-

Edwin Stiff skipper cert. no.4929 Trawler Newcastle 1895, Trawler Josephine 1897/8,Trawler Hellenic 1911 Mate.

F.A.Stiff Skipper cert. no.7644 Trawler Ivanhoe 1907, Trawler Royallieu 1905

J.C.Stiff age 28 deckhand Trawler Rajah 1911
J.Stiff age 29 trimmer Trawler Liberia 1911
J.Stiff age 29 trimmer Trawler Courtier 1911
J.Stiff age 45 2nd Eng. Trawler King Canute 1911
Regards
Dave
http://80.6.94.208/DServe/DServe.exe?dsqApp=Archive&dsqDb=Catalog&dsqCmd=Search.tcl


----------



## linzandkev

davetodd said:


> Hello Lindsey
> If you go to the N.E.Lincs website below and type in the name (stiff) in the "Any text" box you should be able to find :-
> 
> Edwin Stiff skipper cert. no.4929 Trawler Newcastle 1895, Trawler Josephine 1897/8,Trawler Hellenic 1911 Mate.
> 
> F.A.Stiff Skipper cert. no.7644 Trawler Ivanhoe 1907, Trawler Royallieu 1905
> 
> J.C.Stiff age 28 deckhand Trawler Rajah 1911
> J.Stiff age 29 trimmer Trawler Liberia 1911
> J.Stiff age 29 trimmer Trawler Courtier 1911
> J.Stiff age 45 2nd Eng. Trawler King Canute 1911
> Regards
> Dave
> http://80.6.94.208/DServe/DServe.exe?dsqApp=Archive&dsqDb=Catalog&dsqCmd=Search.tcl


I think F.A Stiff could be my great great uncle Fredrick Arthur Stiff
regards 
Lindsey


----------



## linzandkev

linzandkev said:


> I think F.A Stiff could be my great great uncle Fredrick Arthur Stiff
> regards
> Lindsey


Edwin Stiff was my great great great uncle.
Thank you
Lindsey


----------



## joanofacre

ahoy all!

Can anyone provide me with more information on the following Grimsby trawlers [?] and fishermen...

1901 *Richmond* - owner Fred.E.Hagerup Skipper Robert E Cubitt certificate 5317 lived 60 Rutland st Grimsby 

1902 *Vetnor* - owner Fred.E.Hagerup, skipper Robert Cubitt Golding cert 5317

1910 *Bradford* -owner J D Marsden, skipper Robert Cubitt Golding cert 5317

1911 *Bradford* -owner J D Marsden, skipper Robert Cubitt Golding cert 5317,also as crew his father inlaw Samuel Gates Deck hand [b 1848 Great Yarmouth] 

1911 *King George* - owner J D Marsden, skipper R Cubitt Golding cert 5317 [aged 43, Yarmouth] also as R C Golding 2nd hand, listed as Apprentices: Herbert Robert Cubitt Spare Hand [his son]

During WW1 
1915 "born additional" *Royal Arthur*
1916 Skipper Hired Trawler *The Tetrarch*
1917-1918 Skipper Hired Trawler *Dale Castle*

WW1 Absentee Voters Grimsby

Golding, Robert Cubitt 60 Rutland st W.S.A 124 Skipr.,N.R.R.,*HMS Zaria* [

Cubitt,Herbert Robert 60 Rutland st, Gunner Minesweeper [mentioned in despatches]

Cubitt, Samuel WO 60 Rutland st, Steward Minesweeper

Nelson,Walter 53 Yarborough st [brother in law] Writer *HMS Woolwich*

any info on these vessels or fishermen would be greatly appriciated

kind regards joanofacre


----------



## davetodd

joanofacre
Some information for you regarding the vessels:-
BRADFORD GY132 Official Number 106677 built 1896 on Grimsby register until 1917. served in WW1, Admiralty Number 829
DALE CASTLE SA99 ( Swansea register) O.N.128905 served in WW1 Ad.No.976
KING GEORGE GY1214 O.N.113219 built 1901 on Grimsby Register until 1919
1917 part of the Fishery Reserve under Admiralty control.
RICHMOND GY233 O.N.108455 built 1897 on Grimsby Register until 1925
Part of the Fishery Reserve.under Admiralty control.
HMS ROYAL ARTHUR ex cruiser built 1896. Depot ship during WW1 for submarines?
Based at Scapa Flow and Rosyth.
THE TETRARCH GY945 O.N.135975 built 1913 on Grimsby Register until 1942
Served in WW1 Ad.No.254 Vessel lost in 1941 after collision.

Regards
Dave


----------



## jsoulsmith

My first post here so I'm a novice on Grimsby Trawler facts PLUS I'm a bit of a novice on Family history issues too .... so maybe just about everything I'm about to post will already be known here ......
ANYWAY, I'm researching the Grant family history as my mother is a Grant.
She is the daughter of Frank Grant (a fisherman & trawler owner) born around 1882; died 1936.
My mother was very young when her father (Frank) died but she tells me he owned / captained 3 trawlers from around 1900 to the early 1930's ..... she says that their names were the Weelsby, Claire (or Clara) & Sidney Frank.
He was involved in Royal Navy duties in WW1 and this ties in with what the Weelsby was doing at that time.
The Weelsby (GY299) is shown as a steam trawler (built in Hull in 1891) that 
on the 23 September 1916 was stopped and scuttled, 40 miles SExE of Spurn Light Vessel, by UC-16. At that time, the WEELSBY is shown as being owned by John Grant of Weelsby, Lincolnshire. No lives were lost in the incident.
I also found a record for the trawler in the 1901 census: it was in Grimsby Docks & crewed on 1901 census day -- The captain was Fred Grant (age 41) and the mate Benjamin Grant (age 47 - his older brother). These 2 were sons of Robert & Ann Grant. The rest of the crew are also listed on the census but I didn't take down their details.
I have checked through many old posts on here & have found the info on Edward Cyril Grant.
However if anyone has info on the other 2 trawlers that my mother named --- the Claire (that may have been the Clara) & the Sidney Frank I would be most obliged .... OR .... on any trawlers owned by Frank Grant or his father John Grant (born around 1850 & I assume died around 1910). 
MANY THANKS John Smith


----------



## jsoulsmith

Using another lead I found earlier in this thread, I have done a search of the Grimsby archives (Nth E Lincs Council) and have found the following info ......
1907: vessel Nelson; owner John Grant; skipper Frank Grant - certificate 7736
1909: vessel Pearl; owner T C Moss; skipper Frank Grant - certificate 7736
1910: vessel Weelsby; owner John Grant; skipper Frank Grant #7736
1913: vessel Weelsby; owner John Grant; skipper Frank Grant #7736
1913: vessel Nelson; owner G Grant; skipper Frank Grant # 7736

The above Frank Grant must be my grandfather but it seems that up to 1913 he was only a skipper NOT an owner.
Maybe it was after WW1 that he became an actual owner.
... ALSO anyone know what became of my other relations Fred Grant (captain of the Weelsby in 1901) and the mate Benjamin Grant (his older brother) between 1901 and 1910 (I guess that they retired from going to sea by 1910). 
Any help that the Grimsby Trawler experts can give me (pointers on where to search next, etc) would be much appreciated. JS


----------



## jsoulsmith

RE: 1907: vessel Nelson; owner John Grant; skipper Frank Grant - certificate # 7736
Is there anywhere where I can look up the details connected to a skipper's certificate ....... I.E. # 7736.
If so, I will also need to look up the following .....
John Grant # 371 
Fred Grant # 1172 
John Grant # 6576 
Chas A Grant # 5381 
Herbert Grant # 5089


----------



## Michelle2909

jsoulsmith said:


> I'm researching the Grant family history as my mother is a Grant.
> She is the daughter of Frank Grant (a fisherman & trawler owner) born around 1882; died 1936.
> My mother was very young when her father (Frank) died but she tells me he owned / captained 3 trawlers from around 1900 to the early 1930's ..... she says that their names were the Weelsby, Claire (or Clara) & Sidney Frank.
> He was involved in Royal Navy duties in WW1 and this ties in with what the Weelsby was doing at that time.
> The Weelsby (GY299) is shown as a steam trawler (built in Hull in 1891) that
> on the 23 September 1916 was stopped and scuttled, 40 miles SExE of Spurn Light Vessel, by UC-16. At that time, the WEELSBY is shown as being owned by John Grant of Weelsby, Lincolnshire. No lives were lost in the incident.
> I also found a record for the trawler in the 1901 census: it was in Grimsby Docks & crewed on 1901 census day -- The captain was Fred Grant (age 41) and the mate Benjamin Grant (age 47 - his older brother). These 2 were sons of Robert & Ann Grant. The rest of the crew are also listed on the census but I didn't take down their details.
> I have checked through many old posts on here & have found the info on Edward Cyril Grant.
> However if anyone has info on the other 2 trawlers that my mother named --- the Claire (that may have been the Clara) & the Sidney Frank I would be most obliged .... OR .... on any trawlers owned by Frank Grant or his father John Grant (born around 1850 & I assume died around 1910).
> MANY THANKS John Smith


Hi jsoulsmith
do these look like the Grants you are reseaching.
----------------------------
Robert Gardiner Grant Born 1822 Died 04/10/1898 Married 23/05/1842 Wife Ann Elvidge (My Great Great Grandparents)

SONS

Robert Grant Born 01/19/1843 Died 9/11/1912 Married 28/5/1866 Wife Charlotte Lingard

John Grant Born 1845 Died 30/10/1911 Married 12/11/1867 Wife Thirza Croskill (My Great Grandparents)

Henry Grant Born 1848

Benjamin Grant Born 1853 Died 1905 Wife Jane Odin

Frederick Grant Born 1860 Died 1932 Wife Alice Taylor

Elvidge Grant Born 1863 Died 1940 Wife Charlotte Underhill

Edward Grant Born 1866
--------------------------------------
if so are you on Genes Reunited as they are a small part of my family Tree on their
NB I do not have a frank in my tree as yet though, have lot John grants in my tree not sure if or were your john might fit

The Grants in My Tree go back to Thomas Grant 1732 Married to Elizabeth Mathinson.

Most of my Grants lived in the Old Clee/ Cleethorpes and outlying area they were mostly in the fishing industry (fishermen ect).


----------



## davetodd

jsoulsmith said:


> Using another lead I found earlier in this thread, I have done a search of the Grimsby archives (Nth E Lincs Council) and have found the following info ......
> 1907: vessel Nelson; owner John Grant; skipper Frank Grant - certificate 7736
> 1909: vessel Pearl; owner T C Moss; skipper Frank Grant - certificate 7736
> 1910: vessel Weelsby; owner John Grant; skipper Frank Grant #7736
> 1913: vessel Weelsby; owner John Grant; skipper Frank Grant #7736
> 1913: vessel Nelson; owner G Grant; skipper Frank Grant # 7736
> 
> The above Frank Grant must be my grandfather but it seems that up to 1913 he was only a skipper NOT an owner.
> Maybe it was after WW1 that he became an actual owner.
> ... ALSO anyone know what became of my other relations Fred Grant (captain of the Weelsby in 1901) and the mate Benjamin Grant (his older brother) between 1901 and 1910 (I guess that they retired from going to sea by 1910).
> Any help that the Grimsby Trawler experts can give me (pointers on where to search next, etc) would be much appreciated. JS


Hello JS
You state that Frank Grant was "only" a skipper NOT an owner.
As is the case for many vessels, the ownership was divided into shares. There were 64 shares in total and individuals could purchase shares in that vessel
Where the owner is given as G.Grant or some other name, this probably means that the named person or company was the majority share-holder. The skipper may also hold shares in the same vessel.
The shares could have been purchased via a mortgage with a bank or other loan.
All of the details regarding this can be found within the ship's registers held at the Grimsby Archives.If you are unable to visit the archives at the Town Hall in Grimsby, perhaps you could ask for a look-up via an e-mail to:-
[email protected]
But they are usually busy, so I would suggest a one request at a time.
They may also be able to help regarding the Skipper Certificate numbers.

By the way, Grimsby Central Library Reference section, have photographs of CLAIRE GY318 O.N.125073 and WEELSBY GY299 O.N.96239.
Contact there is:-
[email protected]

Regards
Dave


----------



## jsoulsmith

Michelle & davetodd, many thanks for your replies.
Both are very helpful. I will do some more checking.
The addresses of the 'Grant' related fishing companies was as follows :-
Arthur Grant & Sons -- address ?
William Grant Steam Fishing Co. Ltd. Wharncliffe Road South.
William Grant; Fish Dock Road.
William Grant & Henry Croft Baker -- Grant & Baker Steam Fishing Co. Ltd; Fish Dock Road.
J. Grant; Fish Dock Road. (I assume this was John Grant)
Edward Cyril Grant; Fish Dock Road.
... both Wharncliffe Road & Fish Dock Rd are located in the heart of the docks area of Grimsby (post code area DN31).


----------



## jsoulsmith

Fish Dock Rd, Grimsby (about 100 yrs ago) .....


----------



## Michelle2909

During 1700s/1800s & 1900s did (old Clee) Cleethorpes have its its own fishing fleet or as Cleethorpes has no harbour Did the fisheremen of (old Clee) Cleethorpes Operate out of Grimsby.
If they did operate out of Clee I would be interested in any information on vesels and Fishermen operating from their, especially with surnames Grant and Croft.

"Thank You"
Michelle


----------



## lisamarie2011

*any information appreciated.*

hi all,
i am trying to find any one who sailed with my father JohnEdward Beardsley, from approx 1960 to when he died in march 1979, he was an icelandic fisherman, sailed on many of the ross vessels, and i believe the rhodeshian also, i have only ever seen one picture of him, and have nothing to tell my children, as his life was never spoken of by my late mother, i hope to hear something, 
thenkyou for reading,
regards
lisamarie beardsley


----------



## Historyman

Stockham
Built: 1948. Builders: John Lewis & Sons Ltd, Aberdeen & Montrose. Yard No: 213. Launched: Thursday 2nd December 1948. Completed: 1949. Registered: March 1949. Gross Tons: 609. Nett Tons: 223. Length: 170.4 feet. Beam: 29.2 feet. Draught: 14.3 feet. Quarterdeck: 88 feet. Forecastle: 30 feet. Official Number: 182632. Original Owners: Trawlers Grimsby Ltd, Grimsby.
April 1953
Registered to Derwent Trawlers, Grimsby.
January 1959
Registered to Ross Trawlers, Grimsby.
August 1961
Renamed Ross Battler.
Fate: Scrapped in January 1964.

Hi I sailed on the Stockham just after her super structure was altered and she still seemed top heavy. even on a calm day her decks where awash. Also she was reputed to be haunted.......Ron


----------



## trotterdotpom

Welcome to SN, Ron. My friend Barney Warman was sparks on Stockham for quite a few years, did you know him? He was there the night the Laforey went down on the Norwegian coast and was the last one to communicate with her. He is in his mid-80's now.

John T.


----------



## Historyman

Hi John,
It was a bit before my time as I'm just touching 70.......Ron


----------



## trotterdotpom

Thanks Ron, just wondered. Barney worked ashore for Ross's for quite a few years after coming ashore. After he left, he ran the Palace Buffet which you may remember near Riby Square. I'll have to ask him about the haunting on Stockham.

John T.


----------



## Historyman

trotterdotpom said:


> Thanks Ron, just wondered. Barney worked ashore for Ross's for quite a few years after coming ashore. After he left, he ran the Palace Buffet which you may remember near Riby Square. I'll have to ask him about the haunting on Stockham.
> 
> John T.


There was a deckie on her called Fred and I was on watch with him on the bridge. We had a good view of our sleeping quarters in the Forcastle so we new nobody was playing pranks on us.
Fred went to stoke up the stove for when we turned in and has he did so he heard some one cough so he turned round and saw a figure watching him. He ran back up to the bridge looking very pale and frightened. Also the lights used to turn them selves on for no apparent reason. Also the winch would start up on its own and you had to run down and turn it off.........Ron


----------



## bob collie

*crathie top*

hi all just stumbled onto this thread (which i think is great) and would like some help in gleaning some information on a grimsby siener by the name of "crathie top" she was registered as GY 394. and was owned by delga fishing co. any information will be welcomed an image would be even better.
thanks in advance and keep up the good work

bob


----------



## davetodd

bob collie said:


> hi all just stumbled onto this thread (which i think is great) and would like some help in gleaning some information on a grimsby siener by the name of "crathie top" she was registered as GY 394. and was owned by delga fishing co. any information will be welcomed an image would be even better.
> thanks in advance and keep up the good work
> 
> bob


Evening Bob
CRAITHIE TOP GY394 was built in 1941 24 tons net.
1961 Olsen's has her owner as Tom Sleight of Grimsby
1965 Olsen's same.
Grimsby Central Library have two photographs of this vessel.
Contacts there are:-
Derek O'Connell .... [email protected]
Jennie Mooney .... [email protected]


Regards
Dave


----------



## bob collie

thanks dave great stuff 
in seventy four she was owned by delgas they must have bought them from sleights 
i will contact the library and see what they have got
thanks again

bob


----------



## eriskay

mattarosa said:


> The following, from the Manchester Guardian of 31 March 1926, throws some light, I hope.
> 
> TRAWLER WRECKED
> Seven Men Lost Out of Crew of Nine
> Seven men lost their lives owing to the overturning of a small boat belonging to the Fleetwood trawler Gaul, which was wrecked yesterday on the north side of Tiree, in the Inner Hebrides, off the coast of Argyllshire. Two of the crew of nine - a trimmer named Edward Thomson, and a deckhand named George Pratt - managed to swim to the shore after a struggle that greatly exhausted them.
> The body of the cook, Amos Beard, has been washed ashore. The bodies of the other men could be seen at times, but owing to the roughness of the sea no rescue could be effected.
> The two survivors are at present too exhausted to give an account of what happened.
> Our Fleetwood correspondent says the Gaul was returning to Fleetwood after being on charter for Icelandic fishing and was due to arrive in Fleetwood last night.
> The Gaul is one of Fleetwood's largest fishing steamers and belongs the the New Docks Steam Fishing Company, to whom it was being returned on completion of a charter with Grimsby managers.
> None of the crew belongs to Fleetwood.
> All the crew were Grimsby men. Apart from Thompson and Platt there were the skipper (Karl Johnson), the mater (W Robinson), the third hand (R Dean), a deckhand (T Moon), the chief engineer ( A Keightley), the second engineer (R Kershaw), and the cook (Beard).
> 
> 
> Note that the spelling of the names of the two survivors is inconsistent in both cases (Thomson/Thompson and Pratt/Platt) but I have copied the article as it appeared in the newspaper.
> 
> Hope this is of help.
> Hilary



The body of the S.S. Gaul's Deckhand, Thomas Albert Moon, one of the seven who perished, was washed up on the Island of Wiay in the Western Isles (small island on the East side of Benbecula).

It was found by my maternal-side great grandfather who reported the fact to the authorities on Benbecula. Thomas Albert Moon, a Grimsby man, was buried in Nunton Cemetery, Benbecula and in fact I visited the graveside just two weeks ago whilst on holiday.


----------



## Kerbtrawler

*Lists of Trawlers*

Just to let everyone know, I have just finished listing all of the trawlers with an official number that were ever registered at Grimsby, the list is alphabetical and then states the GY reg

they cover the years from 1876 to 1976

wouldbe grateful if any of you can cast your eye over the lists and let me know if I have missed any

many thanks


----------



## hari kari garry

*Cradock.*



Clem said:


> Welcome to you Roy, thanks for posting the info. on your old ship, Cradock. One of my relatives worked on her from '47, till he was called up for National Service. The skipper then was Bill Mogg and his son-in-law, Tommy Evans, was Mate. Bill's son Ken was deckie at that time. They were fishing the White Sea, and getting some good trips in.
> 
> What was the old girl like when you were on her, were you still going far afield?
> 
> Nice of you to join us here, hope you enjoy this site and tell us all a few yarns.
> 
> Best wishes
> 
> Clem


The message above made me look at my Father Tommy Evans's old Port Record Book.
The very first entry shows Dad as Mate of the Cradock from 04 04 1946 to 24 04 1948 and then he took the Filey Bay as Skipper for two trips relief, before returning as Mate to Cradock from 16 07 1948 till 13 05 1949. 
Dad may have been Mate with Granddad Billy Mogg in the Cradock before this log book starts but Dad gained his skippers ticket on 16 December 1946 in Grimsby.


----------



## Steve Farrow

hari kari garry said:


> The message above made me look at my Father Tommy Evans's old Port Record Book.
> The very first entry shows Dad as Mate of the Cradock from 04 04 1946 to 24 04 1948 and then he took the Filey Bay as Skipper for two trips relief, before returning as Mate to Cradock from 16 07 1948 till 13 05 1949.
> Dad may have been Mate with Granddad Billy Mogg in the Cradock before this log book starts but Dad gained his skippers ticket on 16 December 1946 in Grimsby.


I've just posted a photo of the CRADOCK in the Fishing Gallery Gary.

Steve


----------



## mann s

hi my wifes grandad was on the northern crown when it ran aground and sunk


----------



## Kerbtrawler

*Imperial Queen GY 502*

Just wondered if anyone can help with the history of the Imperial Queen GY 502
I have some details but was interested in how she was lost

Regards


----------



## Steve Farrow

Kerbtrawler said:


> Just wondered if anyone can help with the history of the Imperial Queen GY 502
> I have some details but was interested in how she was lost
> 
> Regards


She was just listed as missing.......probably we'll never know.

Regards

Steve


----------



## Michael Lowrey

Agree that we're unlikely to ever know Imperial Queen was lost. I looked at the weather charts for the days after she was listed as missing. There was a big low over Iceland on the 29th and 30th but I'm not sure that was enough to make weather a favorite as a cause of loss. She could also eaily have hit or trawled up a mine.

Best wishes,
Michael


----------



## Kerbtrawler

*Imperial Queen*



Michael Lowrey said:


> Agree that we're unlikely to ever know Imperial Queen was lost. I looked at the weather charts for the days after she was listed as missing. There was a big low over Iceland on the 29th and 30th but I'm not sure that was enough to make weather a favorite as a cause of loss. She could also eaily have hit or trawled up a mine.
> 
> Best wishes,
> Michael


I have just been talking to the grandson of the skipper of the Imperial Queen and he is under the impression that the trawler was lost off Scarborough after hitting a mine? but he has no records of the event just the skippers papers.

cheers


----------



## Kerbtrawler

*change of port registry*

I have been looking into mostly the older fishing trawlers and it appears to be a common practise that when a new owner took over a vessel it would be reregistered, why did they do this? what was if any the benefit, for example
GY 91 Challenger, then GY 33 and then GY 37

thanks


----------



## ingiemorgan

trawlercook said:


> Clem Whats His Name I Fished From 1965 To The End Thats When I Ended Up In Lowestoft But I Did Quite A Long Time In G.y.in Many Firms We May Have Come Across One And Other In Cotties White Knight Albion Many Other Watering Holes I Often Missed The Last Ferry Home
> Regards Colin


my dad was a danish skipper out of gy if i can be of any help xx


----------



## peter green 95

Hi Colin I was fishing From Grimsby 1964 To 1980 I was In a Lot of Ships When was he Born I was with a lot Danish Men At sea & Signed on as Skipper for them & Yes The best Watering Holes was Cotties White Night & The Prince of Wales & More A lot Of Danish Men had Nick Names My Email [email protected] All the Best In Your Research ,Peter Green.


----------



## hookie

I am trying to find out details of the Grimsby seine netter Marcia which foundered in the North Sea in, I believe, 1957. Skipper was Carl Jorgensen and the mate was his son, Johnnie. Does anyone know what happened? Tony


----------



## rachel1981

hello am new to this so bear with me am trying to find anything out about my dad his name was frank tuson he was a grimsby fishermen from 1967 and passed away in the 1980s can any one remember him at all


----------



## peter green 95

rachel1981 said:


> hello am new to this so bear with me am trying to find anything out about my dad his name was frank tuson he was a grimsby fishermen from 1967 and passed away in the 1980s can any one remember him at all


Hi My Name Is Peter green I Was Fishing From Grimsby From 1964 To 1984 The Tuson i Remermber Wot Ship's Was he In it will Hlep me Remerber & was he from Grimsby ,


----------



## Steve Farrow

hookie said:


> I am trying to find out details of the Grimsby seine netter Marcia which foundered in the North Sea in, I believe, 1957. Skipper was Carl Jorgensen and the mate was his son, Johnnie. Does anyone know what happened? Tony


Hi,
The Marcia was lost on the 29th March 1957 and I believe Carl Jorgensen was lost when the Ferriby foundered in the the North Sea in the late 1960's or early 1970's.

Steve


----------



## emmalou

*Sheldon*

Hi

Does anyone have or know where i can get a photograph or picture of the Sheldon GY 696?

Thanks


----------



## timo

There's some pics of the Sheldon on trawler photos.co.uk


----------



## emmalou

thank you


----------



## Steve Farrow

Emmalou,

I have just posted a photo of the Sheldon in the Fishing section of the Gallery. There is also a painting of mine in the Maritime Art section.

Regards

Steve


----------



## emmalou

thank you.


----------



## Gazbobs

*The wreck outside the fish dock gates*

Hi there, i've joined the site to try and find an answer to my question. Does anyone know the name of the wreck outside the lock gates to the fish docks in Grimsby? There are actually to hulls, the one down stream is barge like in shape, but the one on the upstream side of the gates looks more trawler/seiner like in shape. if anyone can shed any light on this i'd be most grateful. Thanks.


----------



## storming

Hi all was wondering if anyone could help here ?. A relative of mine from the Faroe Islands sent me this hoping i could help put a name to this vessel as i am an ex GY fisherman. His grandfather lived and sailed with his brother from Grimsby aprox 18-95- 1910 only thing i can assume it could possibly belong to Atlas Steam Fishing Co Grimsby, because of the A on the funnel ? 
cheers everyone 
Norm


----------



## billblow

Storming
You are probably correct in saying it is an Atlas Steam Fishing Co. Ltd. vessel.
White A on broad yellow and blue bands.
Two other Grimsby companies at same time with an A.
An Alward company but with a black A on broad red and white bands and the Grimsby Steam Fishing Co. Ltd with a white A on an all black funnel
But which vessel I don't know.
billblow


----------



## storming

cheers Billbow apreciate the help !


----------



## xeniaanne

*Hi, I am a newbie !!*

Does anyone know where I could see a picture of a Grimsby ship that sank on Jan31st 1953.....it was called the SHELDON....a friend of mine's grandad was on it...and I would love to find out anything I can about it for her. thankyou in advance, annie x x


----------



## billblow

hello xeniaanne try here
http://www.shipsnostalgia.com/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/305637/title/sheldon/cat/522
billblow


----------



## grahamhussey

Gazbobs said:


> Hi there, i've joined the site to try and find an answer to my question. Does anyone know the name of the wreck outside the lock gates to the fish docks in Grimsby? There are actually to hulls, the one down stream is barge like in shape, but the one on the upstream side of the gates looks more trawler/seiner like in shape. if anyone can shed any light on this i'd be most grateful. Thanks.


Hi gazbobs
Steve Farrow posted about this in the gallery 27 July 07 vessel was the Good Tidings 
regards Gray


----------



## Steve Farrow

Can somebody throw some light on the incident on board the LUCERNE in the early 1960's when the mate killed the skipper in the wheelhouse? I can't find anything on the Internet.

Steve


----------



## edi1939

Steve Farrow said:


> Hello Hilary,
> The Atlantic Dolphin was built about 1961 by Doig's in GY and fished out of here for a few years before being sold to Peru. Photo's of her seem scarce.
> I will try and get hold of one. Here is one taken from aft looking for'ard. The wheelhouse is almost the same as that of the Atlantic Seal.
> regards
> Steve


i was second engineer on the seal and the dolphin sailing from gy in early sixties edi


----------



## Steve Farrow

edi1939 said:


> i was second engineer on the seal and the dolphin sailing from gy in early sixties edi


Edi 1939,

Was you on the Atlantic Seal with Tommy Darwood in April 1963? I was a pleasure tripper and remember sheltering in Stornoway from bad weather. She sure was unusual having those three submarine engines!

Steve


----------



## samward

I've just bought GY399, there's a photo of it here which I can't view for some reason:

http://www.shipsnostalgia.com/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/38299/title/harold-john/cat/522


----------



## Steve Farrow

samward said:


> I've just bought GY399, there's a photo of it here which I can't view for some reason:
> 
> http://www.shipsnostalgia.com/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/38299/title/harold-john/cat/522


That's one of the Harold John I took in the 1980's. There's another of her on the crane jetty, just do a search. You must 'Sign up' to view fishing vessels though!

Steve


----------



## Irwing

*Arthur Frederick Woods b September 1880*



AWoods said:


> Hello - I think my grandfather Arthur Frederick Woods (b1880ish) was John Abel Job Woods brother. Arthur Woods was an electrical fitter of trams. Their father was John Abel Woods and their mother was Martha. I don't know anything much at all about Job or their family and would love to find out more and see photographs of the family if possible.


I have tried to contact you via this site without success. If you read this, I would be very grateful if you would send me an e-mail via the site.


----------



## Chris Wynne

bob collie said:


> hi all just stumbled onto this thread (which i think is great) and would like some help in gleaning some information on a grimsby siener by the name of "crathie top" she was registered as GY 394. and was owned by delga fishing co. any information will be welcomed an image would be even better.
> thanks in advance and keep up the good work
> 
> bob


Bob. I just joined this forum and I have some news regarding Crathie Top GY394. I lived and worked several boats (one at once!) from Lochinver from 1984 to 1997. In 1990 the Crathie Top (then BS47) arrived in the harbour and tied up (it was rigged for long-lining for Sprudogs then). It belonged to Messrs Ellis and Edwards of Holyhead and was Beaumaris registered. A writ served by a bank was pinned to it's mast shortly afterwards and it was allowed to deteriorate tied to the Pier for over a year. see http://i1131.photobucket.com/albums/m560/caruthersclooper/CrathieTopBS47beforeweboughther.jpg I could see she was a very strongly built well capable boat and it was more than I could bear to see her deteriorate. I bought her from the bank and set about restoring her and put a deep water net hauler and new line hauler aboard and replaced most of the electronics that had been reposessed. See http://i1131.photobucket.com/albums/m560/caruthersclooper/CrathieTopBS47001.jpg. We renamed her "Lauri Marie" after my daughter who was born at that time (now 21! and is convinced she was named after the boat!) and re-registered UL189. We fished hand-baited long-lines and gill-nets for Spurdogs mostly to the West of Lewis but dodged around the Minch and along the North coast in winter. See http://i1131.photobucket.com/albums/m560/caruthersclooper/LauriMarieUL1891994001.jpg We sold her to Walter McPhee of Scrabster in 1997 and he fished her for scallops. She was subsequently sold again but the licence retained. She was sold to John McMillan and she is now in well deserved retirement and is lying on a mooring at Connell Bridge near Oban and takes Sea anglers and sightseers out. A toilet had been added to the stern and the shelter extended forward. See http://i1131.photobucket.com/albums/m560/caruthersclooper/Charter---Lauri-Marie---Oba.jpg
Contact details http://www.seafishingonline.com/OBAN.htm 
They don’t build boats like that anymore 2.5” Oak planks on double Oak frames. The bigger the sea the happier she was and the more comfortable we were.
Hope this is of interest PM or email ([email protected]) me for more info?
Chris Wynne (now own a Fishery near Carlisle)


----------



## Dave Ibbotson

*Jack Ibbotson*



Sebe said:


> Hi Clem,
> 
> The Ross Hawk was fairly new - I remember her arrival from builders, so I think it must have been the summer 1961 when I did a trip, as I joined the MN October 1962 and had spent the summer months on the docks. Can't remember the rest of crew now (another senior moment!) and unfortunately my uncle 'crossed the bar' some time ago. I do know that he sailed on the Bombardier for some time , and prior to Ross Hawk, he was on Restrivo or one of that class.
> 
> Just checked the Sidewinder site and Jack Ibbotson was skipper on the maiden voyage of Ross Hawk and I think it was still him when I did the trip.
> 
> Sebe (Thumb)


 Jack Ibbotson was my grandad, I am looking for and info on him and my late dad Peter Ibbotson, any help greatfully accepted


----------



## darkie booth

Hello,

Does anyone know where I can find any photographs of the Grimbsy Trawlers my Great Grandfather James Booth served on during the great war please?

HMT Deveron. GY.96
HMT Lord Harding. GY1013
HT Rodney launched 1906. Built at Beverly by CWG. Owned by W.Grant of Grimsby.

Any links or information most welcome.

Thank you.


----------



## Douglas Paterson

The Deveron is on the Bosuns Watch website.
Douglas
www.fishingboatheritage.com


----------



## darkie booth

Douglas Paterson said:


> The Deveron is on the Bosuns Watch website.
> Douglas
> www.fishingboatheritage.com


Hi Douglas,

Thank you for replying, unfortunately I couldn't find the Grimsby Deveron on the website, only Banff vessels, but I did find one of his other ships the Daisy Wood of Banff, so that was really useful thank you.

I found the Deveron GY 96 on www.trawlerphotos.co.uk, but no luck with the Lord Harding or Rodney yet.

Cheers.


----------



## gil mayes

DEVERON, ******, from Fleetwood Steam Trawler Database.

DEVERON (GY96) (1944-1945)
O.N. 122708. 233g 102n 123.6 x 22.0 x 11.5 feet
T.3-cyl and boiler by Earle’s Shipbuilding & Engineering Co Ltd, Hull
7.1920: New boiler fitted

17.10.1905: Launched by Earle’s Shipbuilding & Engineering Co Ltd, Hull (Yd.No.508) for D Line Steam Fishing Co Ltd, Grimsby as Deveron. 11.1905: Completed (Arthur Jeffs, manager). 20.11.1905: Registered at Grimsby (GY96). 11.1914: Requisitioned for war service as a minesweeper (1-6pdr HA) (Ad.No.695). Based Moray Command. 2.7.1918: At Invergordon fitted 1-7.5” A/S Howitzer. Post12.3.1919: Returned to owner at Grimsby. 1.1928: Sold to Walter Garratt, Grimsby (managing owner). 9.1932: Sold to Thomas E. Fisher, Grimsby (managing owner). 4.1935: Sold to Charles Dobson, Grimsby (managing owner. 21.1.1938: In thick fog in the North Sea in collision with Danish steamer Pontus. 22.1.1938: Arrived Lowestoft escorted by Wolseley (LT410). 2.1941: Sold to Perihelion Steam Fishing Co Ltd, Grimsby (Herbert G. Crampin, manager). 4.1944 - 1.1945: Fishing from Fleetwood. 4.1945: Sold to Deveron Steam Fishing Co Ltd, Grimsby (Albert W. Butt, manager). 10.1954: Sold for breaking up. 10.1954: Grimsby registry closed.
Gil.


----------



## david.hopcroft

I wonder if anyone can help me with some ID please.

I have two photographs (copies) of WW1 Fishing Protection vessels, and another of one of their crew. 

One is identified as HMS Whitby GY524, but the other - shown below - is unknown. Can anyone tell me if they are the same vessel ? If not, could it be any of the RONSO, SCOMBER, CUIRASS, WALDORF, GRENADE or DUCHESS. All are the names of vessels shown in the address box of the signal that was transmitted from the Admiralty Radio Station at Grimsby to announce the signing of the Armistice at 1100, 11.11.18

The Admiralty base at Grimsby was I understand HMS PEKIN. The sailor in the foreground holding the shell has a name on his hat band that could be HMS Pekin, but am not sure.

David
+


----------



## darkie booth

Thank you for the information on the Deveron Gil; much appreciated.


----------



## Chris Wynne

Kerbtrawler said:


> Just to let everyone know, I have just finished listing all of the trawlers with an official number that were ever registered at Grimsby, the list is alphabetical and then states the GY reg
> 
> they cover the years from 1876 to 1976
> 
> wouldbe grateful if any of you can cast your eye over the lists and let me know if I have missed any
> 
> many thanks


CRAITHIE TOP GY394 was built in 1941 24 tons net.
1961 Olsen's has her owner as Tom Sleight of Grimsby
1965 Olsen's same.


----------



## Kerbtrawler

Thanks Chris,
I will look into that one

thanks for the help


----------



## davetodd

****** booth said:


> Hello,
> 
> Does anyone know where I can find any photographs of the Grimbsy Trawlers my Great Grandfather James Booth served on during the great war please?
> 
> HMT Deveron. GY.96
> HMT Lord Harding. GY1013
> HT Rodney launched 1906. Built at Beverly by CWG. Owned by W.Grant of Grimsby.
> 
> Any links or information most welcome.
> 
> Thank you.


There is a photograph of the RODNEY GY195 ( probably taken in 1930's)
at the Grimsby Central Library.
The vessel is seen alongside a quay with people working aboard.
On the quay is a man watching the activity. Written on the back of the photo. appears to be the name "Mr.Porter" or "Mr.Potter"
For a copy of this photo. contact:-
[email protected]
for more information.

LORD HARDING I think should be LORD HARDINGE.
More info. here..
http://www.aberdeenships.com/single.asp?searchFor=lord+hardinge&index=100444

Regards
Dave


----------



## Douglas Paterson

Silver Cod Trophy
Can anyone tell me where I would get a list of the boats which won the Silver Cod Trophy. 
Thanks
Douglas
www.fishingboatheritage.com


----------



## trotterdotpom

You'd think that would be easy, but google-ooogling gives up nothing.

Are you in Hull? The pub Silver Cod on Anlaby Road used to have one of the trophies on display (I think). Maybe you could pop in there and ask. A word to the wise, don't ask anyone under 30, they all think the pub was named after the fish and chip shop over the road.

John T


----------



## gkh151

Douglas,

You will find a list of Silver cod trophy winners here.

http://hulltrawler.net/

Look in the archive section.

Regards.
Graham


----------



## Douglas Paterson

Thanks Graham. Thats a huge help to me.
Douglas
www.fishingboatheritage.com


----------



## gkh151

Douglas,

You are more than welcome. I have had a look at your website and it looks very interesting, I will be keeping my eye on its progression. If I can be of further help please ask.

Regards.

Graham


----------



## MAROF

Looking for Mr. Leonard 'Lenny' Wiseman, who sailed on board the 'Galilian' in 1968. According to UK census probably from Grimsby.

Your message has been found! Please contact!


----------



## snacker

The Silver Cod Trophy is on display in the Maritme Museum opposite the City Hall in Hull


----------



## exworthwade

Hi just wondering if i can join this discussion as my grandfathers brother lost his life in this tragedy. I am hoping someone here can help me to understand more about what took place, thank you.
SID




Roger Griffiths said:


> QUEENBOROUGH was stopped and sunk by the German submarine U86 on 23/March/1917. I assume that the fishermen got into the lifeboat but this was subsequently lost and that they were posted missing on 30/May/1917.
> Again I assume that the CWGC have followed there own rules to the letter and ruled that because the lifeboat was lost then this was not a *direct* result of enemy action. Therefor the fishermen would not be entitled to War Grave status.
> Maybe Billy McGee could give us his expert opinion.
> 
> Roger


----------



## TSJ59

Hi - I'm sure the story on Queensborough is explained elsewhere on this site but all nine of her crew are commemorated. There was a error made on the record entered in the uboat's KTB, the Queenborough's port registration number was logged as GY 568 instead of GY 658.

Cheers, Terry


----------



## exworthwade

*Queenborough*

Thanks for your advice. William John Green was aboard on the day and i am trying to find out exactly what happened to let his nephews know , while i can. I am a Gt Nephew.
Is there any pictures of the tower memorial showing this particular commemoration.
Thank you Very Much indeed
Sid


----------



## ray1buck1

exworthwade
there is a list of those commemorated at
http://www.hut-six.co.uk/cgi-bin/sxH4H.php?value=1&pageno=1
Ray


----------



## cappy

*queenborough*

hi exworth. my grandfather was also lost on the Queenborough, C.E. Collet (trimmer), the queenborough is listed on the merchant navy and fishing vessels memorium in London,(tower hill memorial ). My nice has seen the plaque but i havent visited it ( yet ).
As someone has stated it was sunk by U86 according to www.uboat.net it was sunk by gunnery 106 mls East of Peterhead,crew seen to abandon vessel and sail away in lifeboats ( niether where recovered)
If i remember correctly this is the link for info. uboat.net great war forum link 1914-1918.invasionzone.com 
good luck.


----------



## cappy

*queenborough*

hi exworth this link is the tower hill memorial in london.


----------



## exworthwade

Thank you for your help. All help is much appreciated it has saved lots of time on fruitless searches.
Interestingly i read the description on uboat.net and apparantly u86 commander and officers were tried and convicted after the war for sinking hospital ship Llandovery Castle then opening fire on survivors. (any help finding info on the trial would be most welcome). I expect it too dangerous assumption that when my grandfathers brother boarded his lifeboat after u86 sank his vessel Queenborough (A fishing trawler) that they too may have been shot at and all lives lost in this manner? How often did this violation of international law of shooting at hospital and rescue vessels occur?
All help most welcome. Thanks again to all offers of help .


----------



## Douglas Paterson

Queensborough
I've posted a picture of the plaque on Towerhill on my website www.fishingboatheritage.com
If you go to English Boats and Crews Lost to the sea and then to 1917 you'll get it. I have photos of all the plaques from both world wars if anyone wants any others put up. I'm afraid the quality varies because of the difficult angles, shadows and the weathering of the plaques. I may try to retake them the next time I'm in London.
Douglas


----------



## exworthwade

Many Thanks To All For Your Help


----------



## Peter Webb

HI Guys, back in Aug 2009, i was after pictures of Resono, i've found a water colour which shows her and two other trawlers. Saw the picture, in Fishing from the Humber by Arthur Credland, the picture is by Frank Mason, Hull mueuem have a high def pic, does anyone know, who has Frank's copyright (he died in 1965) 
Pete


----------



## petdenken

*Ethelbert Peter Sayers*

hello Clem 

not sure if this item is of any interest ?

my gt grandfather was Ethelbert Peter Sayers who was a Skipper in Grimsby died age 72ys in 1900

he was fishing 1884 - 1893 for the boat owner James Meadows -
his fishing smacks were FROLIC / EMPOROR? KERRY/ ALETHIA

He was also a *diver* working on the new GY Docks and was a popular man in the Town

Do you have any news of the person or boats please?

photos or articles

hoping to hear from you

best wishes
peter dennis 
Gt Grandson


----------



## Linnea LL590

Has any one any information on this trawler GY778 Corona ON 109806 on Grimsby register from 1898 to 1908 Who owned her in Grimsby and where was she sold to?? Many thanks


----------



## billblow

Linnea LL590
The Grimsby owners were the Grimsby & North Sea Steam Trawling Co. Ltd.
She was sold to Swedish owners.
billblow


----------



## gil mayes

CORONA (109806) was registered at Grimsby on 27.7.1898 as (GY778) and the registry was closed on 11.9.1908 with the notation "Sold Swedes". Grimsby owner as Bill quotes above.
Gil.


----------



## Linnea LL590

hi guys thanks for the information.Really appreciated.What took this to my attention other than the wreck is about 3 miles from my house is the registration and how early the wreck happened after her sale. LA is Landskrona and i was not aware there were steam trawlers in that port at the time... I must have a look at the local newspaper archive and the receiver of wreck books..Is there any records of the Grimsby & North Sea Steam Trawling Co. Ltd in existence?? Again thanks gentlemen !!


----------



## raf1387

Mildenhall sailed from Grimsby for Bear Island on 18 October 1948 with a crew of 21 hands under Skipper Harold Edward Brennan. When about 300 miles from Grimsby the skipper received information from the office which made him proceed to the White Sea Grounds. At 11.00 on 1st November he dropped a buoy wityh Cape Nyemetski bearing SE 1/2 S at estimated distance of 3.75 mles in 52 fathoms of water. She commenced fishing until dark at 13.00 hours. About 21.18 hours breakers were sighted bearing about NE on the starboard bow, and although her engines were stopped, she stranded on Laassat Reef. Attempts were made to refloat her but her hull was so badly damaged by the rocks that she was a total loss. n SOS was sent and answered by HMS Romula which arrived on the scene at 13.00 hours on the 2nd. The crew were rescued by motorboat and the trawler's starboard lifeboat, the port boat having been smashed by the sea. The verdict of the Court of Enquiry into the stranding was that her loss was caused by the skipper's failure to check his position froim the time he dropped his buoy until the ship's stranding, and his Certificate was suspended for six months.


----------



## Steve Farrow

*'Rough Seas'*

An ex Grimsby trawler skipper, James Greene has written about his life at sea in a new book called, "ROUGH SEAS" The Life of a Deep-Sea Trawlerman. Jim worked out of GY nearly all of his life but was born in Fleetwood. He was the son of a skipper out of that port who took him away on many 'Pleasure trips' before taking up the job full time. It is both fascinating and captivating.....well worth a read!

Steve


----------



## Kerbtrawler

*crew names*

Morning all
Can anyone point me in the right direction to find the crew names of the Grimsby trawlers in the 1900's to 1920's

thanks


----------



## Roger Griffiths

Morning Trevor,
Depends on the exact year you need. Do you have names of the vessels you are interested in?

regards
Roger


----------



## Kerbtrawler

Hi Roger 

the Braconash GY 747

I am trying to find the name of the cook - died or was swept over board 1912?

But can't be certain of any of the above other than the name of the Trawler

Thanks in advance for any help


----------



## Kerbtrawler

Have a name now - SAMUEL WYNESS - but not how he met his unfortunate end

thanks


----------



## Roger Griffiths

From the RGSS DAS register 1912 page 20. TNA piece BT334/53
Missing presumed drowned

regards 
Roger


----------



## Kerbtrawler

as always many thanks roger, I will go along to the TNA in the morning and have a look

cheers


----------



## briden

Hi Clem.
I have a few photo's of grimsby seine netters,some I know the names of but there are some I don't.
I'll try and send you one as a trial as I'm not sure of how to e'mail them to you.
If you do happen to get the photo,could you let me know.
Cheers Briden.


----------



## briden

Hi Clem.
I have a few photo's of grimsby seine netters,some I know the names of but there are some I don't.
I'll try and send you one as a trial as I'm not sure of how to e'mail them to you.
If you do happen to get the photo,could you let me know.
Cheers Briden.


----------



## trotterdotpom

Hello, Briden and welcome to SN. Unfortunately, Clem, who started this thread, hasn't been heard of for about 4 years. Let's hope everything's ok with him.

Why not post your photos in the SN Gallery.

John T


----------



## looneylectrics

*Osborne 106698*

Hi I'm trying to track down my Great Grandfather John Matthew Adams he held a Master Mariners Certificate C08829 and on Jan 11th 1904 signed on the Osborne 106698 which may have been the GY192 built in Beverly 1896 and registered in Grimsby 1897 owned by Robert Osborne of Grimsby Fish Docks.

Can anyone add anything to that, like what did he Sign on as?Because I'm not sure he had fishing experience or maybe that's where some of his lost years were spent. How long did he last on her? What happened to the Osborne?

Thanks for your help.

Looneylectrics.


----------



## davetodd

looneylectrics said:


> Hi I'm trying to track down my Great Grandfather John Matthew Adams he held a Master Mariners Certificate C08829 and on Jan 11th 1904 signed on the Osborne 106698 which may have been the GY192 built in Beverly 1896 and registered in Grimsby 1897 owned by Robert Osborne of Grimsby Fish Docks.
> 
> Can anyone add anything to that, like what did he Sign on as?Because I'm not sure he had fishing experience or maybe that's where some of his lost years were spent. How long did he last on her? What happened to the Osborne?
> 
> Thanks for your help.
> 
> 
> Looneylectrics.


OSBORNE 106698 was indeed a Grimsby trawler GY192. First registered at Grimsby in 1897, but her registry at Grimsby was closed in 1902.
It could be that she was sold and went to South Africa in 1904?
Regards
Dave


----------



## looneylectrics

Hi Dave, it's funny you should say South Africa because my Grandfather reportedly came from South Africa even though he was born in Southampton. I was always told he ran away to sea from South Africa at 14. So perhaps Great Grandad did sail out of south Africa on the Osborne in 1904 or perhaps he took her there.

Regards
Alan.


----------



## gil mayes

OSBORNE (106698) (GY192) Cochrane Yd.No.179 1897 owned by Arthur & Robert Osborne, Grimsby and registered at Grimsby on 16 Jan 1897. She was sold to Mitchell Cotts & Co Ltd, London (as agents) in June 1902 and her Grimsby registry closed on 10 June; re registered at East London. In 1903 she was sold to Colonial Fisheries Co Ltd, East London but was wrecked near Port Alfred, Eastern Cape on 7 Oct 1904.
Hope that helps.
Gil.


----------



## davetodd

Alan
Some good and interesting information supplied by Gil Mayes, which gives a time frame to search in.
I was wondering if you have any do***entation regarding the Masters certificate ( where and when examination took place )
and where did John Matthew Adams sign on 106698 in January 1904.
Was it Grimsby?
Regards
Dave


----------



## trotterdotpom

I'm sure I was told that when "Princess Elizabeth" was sold to South African interests (1969), she had to have a MN Master on board for the run - something to do with her not doing a fishing trip. Would that be fact? Could they have had the same regulations in 1904?

John T


----------



## looneylectrics

Thanks Gil as Dave says there is some good information there. I spent 5 or 6 hours yesterday trying to find a reference to the Osborne in South Africa and finally came up with www.sashipwrecks.com where I found under their ref number 1718 'Osborne 1904 British Iron Steamer 46(tons) 6.1 nm (nautical miles) W of Port Arthur Grounded'.

Dave, it was not until I found my Grandfathers birth certificate on a visit to Southampton earlier this year that I was sure that John Matthew Adams was my Great Grandfather. He was born in 

Ramsgate, Thanet Kent 1857 Oct Nov Dec 2a 628 and possibly died in 
South Stoneham Southampton Apr May June 2c 41 in 1908 aged 50. 
He passed his Master Mariners C08829 in South Shields 1888 (found on line in Captains Registers of Lloyds of London held at London Metropolitan Archives LMA) 
and Married Sarah Alice Davey in Sunderland 1882 Jan Fed Mar 10a 636. 
They had a son Philip Arthur Adams 19th Feb 1888 in South Stoneham.
He became a ships cook Dis A 549181.

I came up with the Osborne 106698 after a bit of detective work. Last year I went to London and looked at the "Agreement and Crew Lists" index at LMA and was able to find ships and dates and at least one agreement for the Caradoc (which I have a photo of) with him signed on as second Mate.
I found the entry Osborne Jan 11th 1904 but I can't swear that it had a number I may have found that later. I am not sure where he signed on
there are gaps in his records, Lloyds Captains Register
Vol 58 has "No Voyages Listed" 1896 to 1903 
Vol 43 shows Courland 65777 Aug 22nd 1895 at Port Natal. 
Then Vol 73 Osbourne Jan 11th 1904 
then Chesapeake 105720 Oct 18th 1906 in red indicating Mate, and that's it. 

I've most likely put in too much information but I thought it might help.

Cheers Alan.


----------



## gil mayes

COURLAND (65777) 1248grt 760n 250.4 x 30.2 x 21.5 feet 130nhp regd London iron built at Govan 1872 and owned in 1895 by Sir Donald Currie, 3 Fenchurch Street, London.
CHESAPEAKE (105720) 4521grt 2886n 370.0 x 47.1 x 27.8 feet 413nhp regd London, steel built at Port Glasgow 1895 and owned in 1906 by Anglo-American Oil Co Ltd, 22 Billiter Street, London.
Both a far cry from the little OSBORNE.
Gil.


----------



## Roger Griffiths

Hi,
Regarding *John Matthew Adams*. He also has records on Microfilm at the National Archives at Kew piece BT122/87
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/...tails.asp?CATID=344244&CATLN=6&accessmethod=5
It may help fill the gaps.
For Nostalgia. A copy of his original masters certificate can be obtained from NMM Greenwich this may also give you a few clues.
http://www.rmg.co.uk/researchers/library/masters-certificates-request-form
Copies of the crew agreement for CHESAPEAKE 105720 for 1906 can be obtained, at a cost, from the Memorial University of Newfoundland.
http://www.mun.ca/mha/holdings/viewcombinedcrews.php?Official_No=105720
Crew Agreement for COURLAND 65777 for 1895 are available at NMM Greenwich see details in thr previous NMM link. Crew agreements usualy give the name of previous ship, so again may fill in the gaps.

Regarding* Philip Arthur Adams*
I can find details of his seagoing career 1920-1938 including a photograph. I have him as being born 19/02/18*84* but it was not unusual for seamen to lie about there age.

Roger


----------



## looneylectrics

I'm going to get copies of the "Agreement and Crew Lists" for 
Isle of Elba 88742 - Apr 13th 1886
Wickham 73717 - Jan 24th 1887
Cleveland 89719 - Aug 16th 1888
Cheapeake 105720 - Oct 18th 1906
From the Maritime History Archive St John's Newfoundland to find where he has been and what he did.

I've also got to get birth, marriage and death certificates for him and his wife to try and tie all this together. I think his wife Sarah Alice died in wolverhampton in 1904, that seems to be a long way from the sea to me. If a 1904 death certificate is the same as a 1950s it will have the informants name and address on it.

In my Grandfathers 1951 Obit (Hull Daily Mail) there is a mention of 2 sisters in South Africa so there is a definite tie.


----------



## looneylectrics

Hi Roger,
I think perhaps the 1884 date comes from him running away to sea at 14, which would be 1904. The story I got was he was living in South Africa at the time. He married at 20 in 1908 saying he was 24, I guess once he gave his age as 4 yrs older he was stuck with it.

Last year I was in London and got copies of his CR 1 and CR 2 from Microfilm but they are not so good so this year I went to Southampton and got copies of his original CR 1, CR 2, and CR 10 which are much better.

Looking at his list of ships they were mostly Ellermans out of Hull. If I find the Agreement for Ortova 144596 - Mar 1st1922 I may be able to work backwards to find his first ship but I doubt it. I just had a thought when I saw you said you could go back as far as 1920 so I looked through his do***ents and found 2 dates I'd missed on the back of his CR 10 144357 - 6/6/20 and 144058 - 24/8/21 so that's 2 more ships to research.

Thanks Roger.

Alan.


----------



## Roger Griffiths

looneylectrics said:


> Last year I was in London and got copies of his CR 1 and CR 2 from Microfilm but they are not so good so this year I went to Southampton and got copies of his original CR 1, CR 2, and CR 10 which are much better.
> 
> 
> 
> Alan.


For information these do***ents are now online at www.FindmyPast.com

Roger


----------



## davetodd

Allan
You certainly deserve to find your GGrandfather after all the research and travel you have undertaken. 
The input from SN members must also give some encouragement.

In your earlier post you stated an Official Number 106698 which clrearly was the O.N. of OSBORNE.
Was this found on John Matthew Adams do***entation?
I ask this as there seems to be some uncertainty regarding the vessels he served in.
There was another OSBORNE, registered in Liverpool.
A steel four masted barque built in 1892 by W.H.Potter & Sons of Liverpool.
325.0 L 46.0 B 25.2 D.
NRT 29861. Owners were Osbourne Co.Lim. ( MacVicar,Marshall & Co.)
She was renamed in 1910 J.C.VINNEN registered in Bremen. Interned in 1914.

If you are certain that he served in 106698 from 1904, then I can have a look at some old newspaper film at Grimsby Library on my next visit to see if there is any mention of her regarding South Africa.

Regards
Dave


----------



## looneylectrics

Dave,

I got the ships from Lloyds Captains Register and I'm not sure if they come with Official numbers or if I looked the numbers up. I did find he signed on the Courland (65777) in Port Natal South Africa on Aug 22 1895. If his wife was the Sarah Alice that died in Wolverhampton in 1904 then that would bring him back to the UK making the idea of delivering the Osborne to it's new owners in South Africa reasonable.
It looks good on paper but whether that's what really happened we will see.

Regards

Alan.


----------



## Kerbtrawler

*Index of ships registered at Grimsby 1824-1918*

Morning Everyone, does anyone have a copy of the 
Index of Ships registered at the port of Grimsby 1824 - 1918

I don't get back to Grimsby as often as I would like so am looking to get hold of a copy - I am more than prepared to part with a few shackles for it in any format

thanks


----------



## davetodd

Kerbtrawler said:


> Morning Everyone, does anyone have a copy of the
> Index of Ships registered at the port of Grimsby 1824 - 1918
> 
> I don't get back to Grimsby as often as I would like so am looking to get hold of a copy - I am more than prepared to part with a few shackles for it in any format
> 
> thanks


You may find this website of some help.
The list containing ships by name covers vessels registered at Grimsby. Not all of those listed are/were fishing vessels.
http://www.nelincs.gov.uk/resident/...and-family-history/free-indexes-topic-guides/

Regards
Dave


----------



## Kerbtrawler

Thanks for the link Dave


----------



## regint

Hi all,
I was looking for information about a sailing trawler called Lizzie built in Grimsby in 1884 marked 87,71 tons and in this forum I found "Lizzie Thorpe GY 955" also built in Grimsby in 1884. Probably the same vessel. The Lizzie I was looking for was bought to Faroes from Sweden in 1920 and was scuttled in 1975. Can anyone confirm that this is the same sailing trawler?

Best regards
Regin


----------



## gil mayes

There was a LIZZIE (67754) (GY488) but she was built in 1874 and sold to Norway in 1899.
LIZZIE THORPE (90366) (GY955) was built by Smith Brothers, Grimsby in 1884 a dandy rigged 1st Class fishing vessel, 84.7 tons 75.0 x 21.0 x 10.4 feet. Sold to Sweden in Feb 1899. I think that you are correct in assuming this is the vessel that came to Faroe.
Gil.


----------



## davetodd

I agree with Gil.
LIZZIE THORPE GY 955 was on the Grimsby register from 1844 to 1899.
Her owner in 1892 ( Mercantile Navy List ) was George Dobson of 324 Victoria Street, Grimsby.
LIZZIE GY 488 was built at Brixham and was on the Grimsby register from 1874 to 1899 and her owner in 1892 was John S. Bedford of Grimsby.
Regards
Dave


----------



## regint

Thanks a lot. 
If it is do***ented that Lizzie Thorpe GY 955 was sold to Sweden in 1899 then it must be the same that came to Faroes in 1920.

Regards
Regin


----------



## linzandkev

hi, Im looking for any information on a fishing trawler at Grimsby in 1901. trawler is GY259 'jurrasic' my great grandad is on the census as been on this vessel and i cant make out his occupation 'firmoner', dont know what this means. his name was stephen stiff, Grimsby fishing family. any info would be great. Thanks


----------



## trotterdotpom

Sounds like that should be "fireman", a person attending to the fires on a steam powered ship, but I'll defer to the experts. Welcome to SN.

John T


----------



## linzandkev

Thanks John, could be. Writing is really hard to read on the census. My great great great grandad was on the vessel 'Rapid' in 1861 he was A B seaman. Im finding it really interesting.


----------



## davetodd

linzandkev said:


> hi, Im looking for any information on a fishing trawler at Grimsby in 1901. trawler is GY259 'jurrasic' my great grandad is on the census as been on this vessel and i cant make out his occupation 'firmoner', dont know what this means. his name was stephen stiff, Grimsby fishing family. any info would be great. Thanks


JURASSIC GY259 built at Hull in 1890 Official Number was 96225.
Iron construction Length 101.0' Beam 20.6' Depth 10.7' Gross 159 tons and Net 64 tons
Steam engines probably by the builder.
She was on the Grimsby register as GY259 from 1890 until 1915.

Here is a website which may help.
In the "Any Text" box, type in the name stiff and quite a few answers appear.
Seems like there were a few fishermen named Stiff.

http://80.6.94.208/DServe/DServe.exe?dsqApp=Archive&dsqDb=Catalog&dsqCmd=Search.tcl

It may be that your relative was indeed a fireman as part of his duties as JohnT has suggested.
On a small vessel such as the JURASSIC, his duties perhaps were both on deck and in the engine room.
Trimming coal and ice could have been work for him as well.

Hope this is of some help.
Regards
Dave
p.s. Note the spelling of the ship's name


----------



## RayL

Hi Clem. I've only just discovered this thread and I haven't the time to wade through all 51 pages unfortunately, but I'd like to mention the one and only trawler that I sailed on; this was the Grimsby trawler Ross Kashmir. I joined her one Saturday lunchtime in the summer of 1968 - the day that Eisenhower's death was announced and the U.S.S.R invaded Dubcek's Czechoslovakia, I recall.

My reason for being on a trawler was that I had packed up my M.N. Radio Officer job a little over a year earlier and I was anxious to keep my 'ticket' going so that my options for returning to sea would still be kept alive. On a trawler you were described as a Radio Operator, of course.

I was disgusted to find that the ship's Avo 8 meter was absent and a cheap alternative had been provided by Ross at short notice. It was explained to me that such thieving was so normal that it had become the expected thing.

The voyage was a nightmare for I was seasick due to the small vessel's yawing motion - something that doesn't occur on a big ship. Also, unbeknown to me, the skipper had treacherously allowed another crew member to take the cabin that I should have had, so I was in the bilges right next to the propeller. In a seasick state and in rough weather I had to clamber up from there whenever it was time for my watch.

We broke down off Iceland and had to be rescued by another Ross trawler. We fired lines via rockets and they towed us to the Faeroe Islands. Ross flew the engine part out to us and the repair was done.

My seasickness returned later in the voyage because of worsening weather, and to his credit the skipper excused me from cod liver work. Despite this I still remember the horrible stink that filled the ship as that work went on.

I was on the bridge when we sailed back into Grimsby at the end of the 16-day voyage, but after we had docked and I returned to my cabin I found that I had been robbed of some of my belongings.

The final blow came later when I wrote to have my sea time made official so that my 'ticket' kept alive. The reply was that I had only done a 16-day trip and you needed to go for four weeks. It had all been for nothing!


----------



## trotterdotpom

Sounds like a character building trip, Ray. You might be interested to hear that Ross Kashmir became Rainbow Warrior II after her predecessor was sunk in Auckland.

So long and thanks for all the fish.

John T


----------



## cueball44

Nothing like dragging baskets of cod livers aft to get over your sea sickness.(Bounce)


----------



## RayL

Fascinating info! Thanks for that. I wonder who's got my bunk.


----------



## Ole_71

*GARPEN ex CONQUEST G 13*

Hi,
I'm looking for a Grimsby Trawler built by shipyard Jacob Kremer in Elmshorn/Germany in 1887. 
Her last known name was GARPEN.

Here is the data I have:

1887-1900 CONQUEST G 13 Grimsby GB,
1900-1906 # Flatholmen/S-
1906 # Mollösund
1906-1921 # Gullholmen
1921-1939 GULLVAG Gullholmen
1939-1962 # Hönö-
1962-1974 GARPEN- Kalmar-
1974-1981 # Ekenäs
1981- ?? Stockholm

until 1939 trawler
until 1962 cargo transport during wintertime
until 1974 school ship

since 1981 yacht
GARPEN 1982 Mediterranean Sea
1984 sold to the Carribean Sea ??


Does anybody know if this ship still exists?

Regards,
Ole


----------



## hawkey01

Ole-71,

on behalf of the Moderating team welcome to SN. Enjoy all we have to offer.
Good luck with your research.

Hawkey01


----------



## alijangra

clearway1 said:


> hi does anybody know history of the trawler hm james ludford my father was only surviver from sunk off tyne 14/12/1939 and any pics of her?she was a mersea class minesweeper any help? regards clearway1


Hi

My Grandfather was lost on the James Ludford. His name was Malcolm Graham, from the Isle of Lewis. I have a picture of the James Ludford if you have not got one yet. 
Regards
Alison


----------



## SASIG

I have a relation who was lost aboard the FV Alice Isabel (GY480) in December 1894. Details of the ship that I have been able to find are that she was a steam powered fishing trawler of 128 grt built in 1893 by Cochrane & Cooper Ltd., Beverley (Hull). She was listed as missing in the North Sea but I know nothing more about her or how she came to be lost. Can anyone on this forum help me out please?
Thanks
Janet


----------



## gil mayes

Quoting from our new book, Cochrane Shipbuilders Vol.1. ALICE ISABEL (O.N.99686) was built as you correctly state by Cochrane & Cooper, Beverley as Yard No.76, an iron built steam trawler, for James Schofield, Grimsby with engine (compound 2-cyl 40nph 9.5 knots) and boiler by Charles D. Holmes Ltd. Hull. Her dims were 128grt 59net 92.0 x 20.5 x 10.6 feet. She was launched on 4 Feb 1893 and completed on 9 Mar 1893 with Grimsby registration on 19 Mar as (GY480). On 21 Dec 1894 she was posted missing on a North Sea trip; no survivors from her crew of nine. Her Grimsby registry was closed on 17 Jan 1895. 
Gil.


----------



## alb

*GY.88 Whitenight - Alexandra Dock*

Hi, here is a photo of GY.88 Whitenight in her later years being enjoyed as the GCYC clubhouse in Alexandra Dock!


----------



## gil mayes

WHITENIGHT. alb. Could we post this pic on our website www.fleetwood-trawlers.info ? In WW2 she joined up with some of the escaped Danish seiners and was landing into Fleetwood. Do you know what happened to her in the end?
Gil.


----------



## gkh151

Alb and Gil,

Whitenight official number 146867 yard no 18 launched 14/2/1920 at Barton for admiralty as Fountain.

3/2/1922 sold to grimsby seine net company and converted for seine netting renamed Whitenight

1932 sold to Harry Franklin.

1940-45 fishing from Fleetwood.

!949 converted to floating nightclub Grimsby.

Regards.
Graham.


----------



## gil mayes

This is WHITENIGHT as I have her on my Fleetwood Steam Trawler database which is the foundation of Bosun's Watch material. I am interested in her end dates as it is obvious that she moved to Hull as the pic shows.

WHITENIGHT (GY88) (wooden drifter/seiner) (WW2)
O.N.146867. 95g 40n(33n) 86.5 x 20.0 x 9.9 feet
T.3-cyl by W. Beardmore & Co Ltd, Glasgow

14.2.1920: Launched by Clapson & Sons, Barton on Humber (Yd.No.18) (“Admiralty drifter”) for The Admiralty as FOUNTAIN (Ad.No.4161). 3.6.1920: Completed as a fishing vessel. 14.12.1920: Transferred to The Fishery Board for Scotland, Edinburgh for disposal. 3.2.1922: Sold to Grimsby Seine Net Co Ltd, Grimsby (Samuel Franklin, manager). Converted for seine netting. 18.7.1922: Registered at Grimsby as WHITENIGHT (GY88). 3.6.1932: Sold to Harry Franklin Ltd, Grimsby (Harry N. Franklin, manager). 1940-1945: Fishing from Fleetwood. 1949: Converted to a floating nightclub at Grimsby. Grimsby registry closed.

Gil.


----------



## alb

gil mayes said:


> This is WHITENIGHT as I have her on my Fleetwood Steam Trawler database which is the foundation of Bosun's Watch material. I am interested in her end dates as it is obvious that she moved to Hull as the pic shows.
> 
> WHITENIGHT (GY88) (wooden drifter/seiner) (WW2)
> O.N.146867. 95g 40n(33n) 86.5 x 20.0 x 9.9 feet
> T.3-cyl by W. Beardmore & Co Ltd, Glasgow
> 
> 14.2.1920: Launched by Clapson & Sons, Barton on Humber (Yd.No.18) (“Admiralty drifter”) for The Admiralty as FOUNTAIN (Ad.No.4161). 3.6.1920: Completed as a fishing vessel. 14.12.1920: Transferred to The Fishery Board for Scotland, Edinburgh for disposal. 3.2.1922: Sold to Grimsby Seine Net Co Ltd, Grimsby (Samuel Franklin, manager). Converted for seine netting. 18.7.1922: Registered at Grimsby as WHITENIGHT (GY88). 3.6.1932: Sold to Harry Franklin Ltd, Grimsby (Harry N. Franklin, manager). 1940-1945: Fishing from Fleetwood. 1949: Converted to a floating nightclub at Grimsby. Grimsby registry closed.
> 
> Gil.


Hi all, many thanks for the info I'm very interested in her as my family used to sail in the dock and have very fond memories! In fact its fair to say that Grimsby dock produced some of the best dinghy sailors in the country! I have just named my sailing boat GY.88 Whitenight in honour of this! Gil - please feel free to use the photograph on your website with our blessing, I will see if i can get any more info photos from my Grandad... be in touch, alb.


----------



## gil mayes

Much appreciated, alb. Do you know when she ceased to be used by the sailing club?
Gil.


----------



## Steve Farrow

gil mayes said:


> Much appreciated, alb. Do you know when she ceased to be used by the sailing club?
> Gil.


I also used to sail from the Whitenight as my uncles dinghy used to be left on her moorings between the wooden piles just out of picture to the right. She was called TEAL and was one of seven designed to sail in the Humber which we did in 1962-3. The only 'dry' part of the drifter then was down the focs'le! We also sailed the GP 14's that belonged to the nautical school, (As the one in the photograph), Poppy & Buttercup! I believe she was broken up to a degree then was buried in concrete when the new car ferry terminal was constructed. This was the training ground for the likes of Mike MacNamara, Mike Rimmer, Mike Holmes and many others that went on to become national and world champions in Enterprises and Albacores!


----------



## gil mayes

What date would that be Steve?
Gil.


----------



## Steve Farrow

*White Night*



gil mayes said:


> What date would that be Steve?
> Gil.


Gill,

Volkswagen and Audi wanted to import their cars into Grimsby in the early 1970's and BTDB agreed to widen the Union Dock cutting between the Royal Dock and Alexander Dock. Tenders were put out in 1973 to carry out this work and build a new terminal at Winnipeg (Westgate now) and in May 1975 the first vessel, M.V. Ramsgate arrived carrying the first cars. This is as near as I can find for a date when the White Night was 'Buried'

Regards

Steve


----------



## gil mayes

Thanks Steve. In the absence of any further info I will put the date as 1974. Could we post your pic on the Bosun's Watch?
Gil.


----------



## Steve Farrow

gil mayes said:


> Thanks Steve. In the absence of any further info I will put the date as 1974. Could we post your pic on the Bosun's Watch?
> Gil.


Yes Gil, and what an excellent site the Bosun's Watch is!


----------



## Dryden

RayL said:


> Hi Clem. I've only just discovered this thread and I haven't the time to wade through all 51 pages unfortunately, but I'd like to mention the one and only trawler that I sailed on; this was the Grimsby trawler Ross Kashmir. I joined her one Saturday lunchtime in the summer of 1968 - the day that Eisenhower's death was announced and the U.S.S.R invaded Dubcek's Czechoslovakia, I recall.
> 
> My reason for being on a trawler was that I had packed up my M.N. Radio Officer job a little over a year earlier and I was anxious to keep my 'ticket' going so that my options for returning to sea would still be kept alive. On a trawler you were described as a Radio Operator, of course.
> 
> I was disgusted to find that the ship's Avo 8 meter was absent and a cheap alternative had been provided by Ross at short notice. It was explained to me that such thieving was so normal that it had become the expected thing.
> 
> The voyage was a nightmare for I was seasick due to the small vessel's yawing motion - something that doesn't occur on a big ship. Also, unbeknown to me, the skipper had treacherously allowed another crew member to take the cabin that I should have had, so I was in the bilges right next to the propeller. In a seasick state and in rough weather I had to clamber up from there whenever it was time for my watch.
> 
> We broke down off Iceland and had to be rescued by another Ross trawler. We fired lines via rockets and they towed us to the Faeroe Islands. Ross flew the engine part out to us and the repair was done.
> 
> My seasickness returned later in the voyage because of worsening weather, and to his credit the skipper excused me from cod liver work. Despite this I still remember the horrible stink that filled the ship as that work went on.
> 
> I was on the bridge when we sailed back into Grimsby at the end of the 16-day voyage, but after we had docked and I returned to my cabin I found that I had been robbed of some of my belongings.
> 
> The final blow came later when I wrote to have my sea time made official so that my 'ticket' kept alive. The reply was that I had only done a 16-day trip and you needed to go for four weeks. It had all been for nothing!


Hi RayL - Not the best of trips you had there, and I can also remember the delights of sleeping right over the screw shaft (Ross Kipling!).
It's possible we crossed paths in August '68. In the Ross Rodney sailing home between SE Iceland and Faroe we attempted many times to fire rocket lines to another trawler for towing, but pretty sure we gave up and carried on to GY. I don't recall ever going into Faroe. Long shot, but can you recall which ship towed you? Cheers - Dryden


----------



## gkh151

RayL and Dryden,

I think it is possible theat the Rodney did tow the Kashmir into Faroe I was on the Rodney in 68 on a pleasure trip and remember towing a ship into Faroe. The skipper was Bill Balls and My uncle Ken Drury was second engineer. I remember a deckie on her called Aga Cartwright. The Rodney was on its way home and we got a call of a ship in trouble and took her in tow and it was deffinatley one of the K class.

Regards.
Graham


----------



## Dryden

*Ross Kashmir - Ross Rodney*

Hi Graham, many thanks for that - it seems Faroe didn't leave a lasting impression on me! Fantastic that we were probably on the same ship without knowing it. I love the term 'pleasure trip' - a real cruise and that's for sure. Where you on deck when you eventually signed on?
Regards
Dryden


----------



## gkh151

Dryden,

I never went back on the Rodney but when I left school in 69 I did become deckie I sailed on 4 Ross ships including the Renown when she broke the record and the Tiger when she broke the record. I also sailed with Northerns and Thomas Robinsons.

Regards.
Graham.


----------



## Dryden

Thanks for all the info Graham, appreciated.
regards
Dryden


----------



## gkh151

Dryden,

You are more than welcome. If I can ever be of help just ask, ships research is a passion to me.

Regards.
Graham


----------



## Steve Farrow

gkh151 said:


> RayL and Dryden,
> 
> I think it is possible theat the Rodney did tow the Kashmir into Faroe I was on the Rodney in 68 on a pleasure trip and remember towing a ship into Faroe. The skipper was Bill Balls and My uncle Ken Drury was second engineer. I remember a deckie on her called Aga Cartwright. The Rodney was on its way home and we got a call of a ship in trouble and took her in tow and it was deffinatley one of the K class.
> 
> Regards.
> Graham


Aga Cartwright is still about but not in good health to say the least.

Regards

Steve


----------



## gkh151

Steve,

My nephew is married to Agas brothers daughter. I have not seen Aga for years but I think his health has a lot to do with drink. I have in the past seen him in freeman street in some real sorry states. I think its sad that such a good deckie should end up like that, He certainly was one of the best gutters I've seen.

Regards,
Graham.


----------



## linzandkev

*Edwin Green Smith*

After recieving my great great grandfather Edwin Green Smiths fishing log book from Steve Farrow, (thank you) ive been searching endlessly for more info on Edwin as his log ends 14 sept 1888. Tonight i have just found a record thanks to help on Ancestry that he drowned in the North Sea 9 dec 1888, his fishing vessel was called 'British Workman'.

Name:SMITH, Edwin Green

Date of death:9 December 1888

Age:35

Place of death:North Sea

Place of birth:

Port received from:Grimsby

Ship's name:British Workman

Series:BT156 - Monthly Lists of Deaths of Seamen

Box:0003

Page:19

Can anyone tell me anything about this vessell please.

Thank you


----------



## Steve Farrow

linzandkev said:


> After recieving my great great grandfather Edwin Green Smiths fishing log book from Steve Farrow, (thank you) ive been searching endlessly for more info on Edwin as his log ends 14 sept 1888. Tonight i have just found a record thanks to help on Ancestry that he drowned in the North Sea 9 dec 1888, his fishing vessel was called 'British Workman'.
> 
> Name:SMITH, Edwin Green
> 
> Date of death:9 December 1888
> 
> Age:35
> 
> Place of death:North Sea
> 
> Place of birth:
> 
> Port received from:Grimsby
> 
> Ship's name:British Workman
> 
> Series:BT156 - Monthly Lists of Deaths of Seamen
> 
> Box:0003
> 
> Page:19
> 
> Can anyone tell me anything about this vessell please.
> 
> Thank you


The BRITISH WORKMAN was a dandy rigged (ketch) sailing smack, (beam trawler) GY 231. She was first registered in May 1867 after being built by J. Ray of Burton Stather. Her dimensions were, 52.87 x 66.4 x 18.2 x 9.2, Crew....3 men and 2 boys. In March 1869 she became GY 11 owned by W. Lawrence. In April 1873 she was bought by W. Goodfellow (Skippered by J. Butler). In August 1887 bought by T. Campbell. Lost in February , missing from the 9th Feb, 1889 supposed foundered in North Sea.

Regards

Steve


----------



## edi1939

have you any pictures of the trawler royal lincs she the deep water trawler i served on 1950s


----------



## gkh151

edi1939

http://www.shipsnostalgia.com/gallery/search.php?searchid=1377695

Click on the link to see photo's of the royal lincs.

Regards
Graham


----------



## edi1939

hi grahamthanks for the pictures of the royal lincs i was galleyboy on her in the 1950s also can say thanks to all others who replied thanks again edi


----------



## mattarosa

*Mystery do***ent*

Hello everyone
For various reasons, I have not been here for some months, but I am trying to get back to my research by sorting out my files.

In one of my files, I found this do***ent, which appears to be an extract (it says page 9) from a list of Grimsby fishermen lost at sea. Unfortunately, I have not made a note of the source, so I don't know whether someone sent it to me, I photocopied it out of a book, found it on the Internet....?

Does anyone recognise it? It would be interesting to see more of the list if such a thing exists.

Any help much appreciated.

Hilary


----------



## trotterdotpom

I see there is a Bass, lost from Ross Rodney in 1975, so the publication can't be that old, have your tried the Fishing Museum in Grimsby or maybe the Fisherman's mission?

I noticed that there are three fishermen called Bass lost. Bass isn't that common a name, I wonder if they were three generations of the same family. Quite poignant.

John T


----------



## billyballs grandson

Hey up guys n gals. Found this site by chance. 
My grandad was billy balls. Anyone sail with him?
And my wifes dad was dave ferrand lost at sea oct 79 also with billy jones
who was living next door to my parents and jacki jones still lives there. I recall
that nite when they knocked on our door and my dad woke me up. I was 7.


----------



## gkh151

Paul. (billyballs grandson),

I sailed with your grandad. I have sent a reply to your e mail.

Regards
Graham


----------



## ashanti2013

I seem to remember as a small child in the 50's, trawlers being loaded with coal - could anyone please confirm that this was the case? Were coal steam trawlers still regularly fishing?


----------



## gkh151

ashanti2013

Yes your memory serves you well there where still coal burning trawlers sailing from Grimsby in the 50s. I am not sure when they stopped but I think they went on into the early 60s. If you look in the Gallery there are some fine photos of some of the old coal burners.

Regards.
Graham

PS type in google images Grimsby trawlers and you get loads of pictures of the old trawlers and the old fish docks.


----------



## Dryden

billyballs grandson said:


> Hey up guys n gals. Found this site by chance.
> My grandad was billy balls. Anyone sail with him?
> And my wifes dad was dave ferrand lost at sea oct 79 also with billy jones
> who was living next door to my parents and jacki jones still lives there. I recall
> that nite when they knocked on our door and my dad woke me up. I was 7.


Hi, Billy Balls was my skipper on the Ross Rodney on Iceland trips in 1968. I was the radio operator. 
Cheers
Dryden


----------



## stano

Just read in local paper online. Aga Cartwright passed away on Mon April 8th.... Stan


----------



## edi1939

nice pic of the atlantic seal have you any pics of her sister ship atlantic dolphin also what were their registrations regards edi


----------



## expats

I worked on the Docks (for Marconi as a 'Techie'} in the early 1970s...My lasting impression is of the 'Real Madrid'.....The R/O's report always said "All OK" but you had to check everything from scratch as the R/O used to disable various pieces of radio equipment (to make sure someone checked the gear I suppose??)... On one occasion I found he'd unsoldered the connections from the base of a Tx valve and hidden the components in a drawer??????


----------



## trotterdotpom

I did a pierhead jump on Real Madrid (well, a tug jump really) - glad I didn't follow him!

John T


----------



## MButler

Hello,

I'm new to this forum, but am looking for any information and particularly photographs of GY147 "Vascama".

My Grandfather (John William Earle) was a crew member, I believe the cook, in the late 1930s before she was requisitioned into the navy.

My plan is to create a 1/32 scale model of the boat so any help with details would be greatly appreciated. I know of one photo I've found on trawlerphotos.co.uk, but that is all.

Thanks in advance.
Michael


----------



## davetodd

Hello Michael
Here is some information which I hope will be of some help.


VASCAMA Official number 162900. built by Cochranes of Selby in 1935.
On 17th April 1935 she arrived at Grimsby and Skipper Peter C Jensen was in command.
Gross tonnage 447
Net tonnage 200.
Owner when new Atlas Steam Fishing Co.Ltd. Grimsby ( Lettens)
Her Port Registration Number was GY164.
She was sold to the Admiralty in 1939 and underweny conversion.

During WW2 she was in service as an Anti-submarine vessel and had a pennant number FY 185.
During 1943 she was on loan to the Portugese Navy and had a pennant number P3.
Returned to the Admiralty in 1944.
In 1945 she was sold back to her owners ( Atlas S.F.Co.Ltd.) and issued with a new Port registration number GY147.
Commenced fishing in January 1946.
Broken up in Belgium in 1963.

The central library in Grimsby have some photographs (6) of VASCAMA 
but as far as I know, they are all with the P.R.N. of GY147.
If your Grandfather sailed in her in the late 1930's she would have had GY 164 as her mark.
Regards
Dave


----------



## MButler

Hello Dave,

Thank you, that's really helpful. 

I hadn't realised that the PRN changed on the vessel's return from naval service. Any photos my Grandfather had were sadly burned by my Grandmother after his death. My Mother's only recollection was that she believed the Owners were Letten Brothers. My Grandfather took me to see Vascama in the fifties, but I don't remember much detail. I have though the details of the ASFC funnel colours and flag so can model them accurately. 

I would obviously like to build the model as the boat was in his time so will use the earlier number. I'll seek to contact the central library, no doubt her appearance would be the same otherwise?

Regards

Michael


----------



## milmur64

*Genera GY 382*

Hello,

I am trying to find out more about my Grand Father John Murray's fishing vessel called the Genera GY 382. My Grand Father died in 1957 and my Uncle William Murray skippered her until his death in circa 1975.

If anyone has any details about her please let me know.

Regards,

Jonathan


----------



## davetodd

MButler said:


> Hello Dave,
> 
> Thank you, that's really helpful.
> 
> I hadn't realised that the PRN changed on the vessel's return from naval service. Any photos my Grandfather had were sadly burned by my Grandmother after his death. My Mother's only recollection was that she believed the Owners were Letten Brothers. My Grandfather took me to see Vascama in the fifties, but I don't remember much detail. I have though the details of the ASFC funnel colours and flag so can model them accurately.
> 
> I would obviously like to build the model as the boat was in his time so will use the earlier number. I'll seek to contact the central library, no doubt her appearance would be the same otherwise?
> 
> Regards
> 
> Michael


Michael
Here is some more info., hope it is of some help.

When a vessel was purchased by the Admiralty, a condition report would be made which recorded details of all aspects of the vessel.
When the vessel was sold then a conversion back to her purchase condition would be carried out and a further report issued.
With that in mind, I think it would be reasonable to say that VASCAMA would be in her 1939 condition and appearance when she commenced fishing again in 1946, except for her number GY147.

I have recently spoken to a colleague who has told me that there may be some information on the VASCAMA, such as "Line drawings"
etc. at the North Yorkshire Archives. They are based in Northallerton and could have many records of the vessels built at Selby.

Line drawings would be useful if you intend to build a "full-body" model rather than a waterline model.

Regards
Dave
p.s At a scale of 1/32 the model would be about 5 foot long!!
as her real length was about 160 feet.


----------



## MButler

Hello Dave,

Once again I'm very grateful to you for the leads which I can follow up.

Yes, my plan is to create a radio controlled model at 1/32 scale. I've built a number of tugs to this scale and am used to it delivering manageable (if heavy) models which look good on the water. 

My guess is yes, a shade under 5 ft and about 10.5 inches in the beam. It will be heavy when fully ballasted!! 

I might cheat a little though as I know of a commercial hull which is available for the trawler "Thornwick Bay" which I think is not too different from Vascama.

Regards

Michael


----------



## edi1939

milmur64 said:


> Hello,
> 
> I am trying to find out more about my Grand Father John Murray's fishing vessel called the Genera GY 382. My Grand Father died in 1957 and my Uncle William Murray skippered her until his death in circa 1975.
> 
> If anyone has any details about her please let me know.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Jonathan


as a 15 year old in the early fifties i did a couple of trips on a seinenetter called genara was this the boat you mean


----------



## billblow

milmur64
Correct name as stated by edi1939 is Genara.
GY 382 Genara ON 146899 built Frederickshaven Denmark 1926
billblow


----------



## Shane Johnson

milmur64 said:


> Hello,
> 
> I am trying to find out more about my Grand Father John Murray's fishing vessel called the Genera GY 382. My Grand Father died in 1957 and my Uncle William Murray skippered her until his death in circa 1975.
> 
> If anyone has any details about her please let me know.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Jonathan


She was for sale a few months back down south, as a live aboard vessel. Still recognisable.


----------



## edi1939

*genara*



Shane Johnson said:


> She was for sale a few months back down south, as a live aboard vessel. Still recognisable.


love to see a picture of her ,i was deckiecook aged 16 in 1955 we had docked in hartlepool first time they got me drunk in the ship just off the docks .we had been back at sea 24 hrs when i regained conciousness, oh happy days .


----------



## johnblack5

jsoulsmith said:


> My first post here so I'm a novice on Grimsby Trawler facts PLUS I'm a bit of a novice on Family history issues too .... so maybe just about everything I'm about to post will already be known here ......
> ANYWAY, I'm researching the Grant family history as my mother is a Grant.
> She is the daughter of Frank Grant (a fisherman & trawler owner) born around 1882; died 1936.
> My mother was very young when her father (Frank) died but she tells me he owned / captained 3 trawlers from around 1900 to the early 1930's ..... she says that their names were the Weelsby, Claire (or Clara) & Sidney Frank.
> He was involved in Royal Navy duties in WW1 and this ties in with what the Weelsby was doing at that time.
> The Weelsby (GY299) is shown as a steam trawler (built in Hull in 1891) that
> on the 23 September 1916 was stopped and scuttled, 40 miles SExE of Spurn Light Vessel, by UC-16. At that time, the WEELSBY is shown as being owned by John Grant of Weelsby, Lincolnshire. No lives were lost in the incident.
> I also found a record for the trawler in the 1901 census: it was in Grimsby Docks & crewed on 1901 census day -- The captain was Fred Grant (age 41) and the mate Benjamin Grant (age 47 - his older brother). These 2 were sons of Robert & Ann Grant. The rest of the crew are also listed on the census but I didn't take down their details.
> I have checked through many old posts on here & have found the info on Edward Cyril Grant.
> However if anyone has info on the other 2 trawlers that my mother named --- the Claire (that may have been the Clara) & the Sidney Frank I would be most obliged .... OR .... on any trawlers owned by Frank Grant or his father John Grant (born around 1850 & I assume died around 1910).
> MANY THANKS John Smith


My name is also John Smith as was my Grandfather who was employed by a trawler owner W Grant.
I have a copy of the 28/06/11 Log Book for the SS Russell 123585 N.E Lincolnshire archives 208/5/55/192. My Grandfather was then 1st Mate no 10474 from Northwich, C Grant was the skipper no 5831 and the ship owner was W m Grant. 
I also have the log for the SS Gadra, 7/1/13, the owner is now Arthur Grant and the skipper is my Grandfather John Smith.
I managed to find that my relative had been a Grimsby fishing apprentice but I never managed to find a photograph of him.
In fact the reason I am writing this is that the thought occurred to me that I should try to trace more details using the Grant family.
So if you can help me in my search it would be appreciated..


----------



## mattarosa

*Sindonis GY92 (ex-Sudanese H104)*

Hi everyone
I am trying to find a little time to get back to my research, though it's hard - so much to do, so little time.

Has anyone ever seen a picture of this trawler, please?


----------



## johnblack5

Hello, I have a number of papers relating to my Grandfather, John Smith.
log of the SS ANSON 2/1/11: signature of witness W Grant, W Grant Owner, my Grandfather, John Smith 10474 was the mate.
Log of SS Gadra:, owner Arthur Grant, skipper John Smith 10474
Log of SS Russel; owner W Grant, skipper C A Grant of Daisy Villa, Mill Road, Clethorpes. John Smith was Mate.
John Smith was a Grimsby fishing apprentice on the FVNero.
I had a lot of help from Grimsby Library but have on photos of my Grandfather.
The Grant family was my next port of call just in case they had retained photos of the boats and the people.

Best wishes


John


----------



## mattarosa

*Run to the Clyde*

Hello everyone

I was looking at some crew agreements at the National Archives yesterday. One of them said the trawler was doing "A run to the Clyde". The trip was only four or five days, there was a skeleton crew and the rate of pay was different from a normal fishing trip. There was no "share in fishing profits". Clearly, this was not a fishing trip. The trawler was built in Beverley. My question is - what would this "run" be for. Does anyone know?

The trawler involved was the Sicyon GY376, the year 1939. 

Incidentally, I can't find a picture for the Sicyon. The person I am researching seems to have specialised in serving on trawlers no one took photographs of !! If anyone, knows where I might find a picture, I'd love to hear about it.

Hilary


----------



## cueball44

mattarosa said:


> Hello everyone
> 
> I was looking at some crew agreements at the National Archives yesterday. One of them said the trawler was doing "A run to the Clyde". The trip was only four or five days, there was a skeleton crew and the rate of pay was different from a normal fishing trip. There was no "share in fishing profits". Clearly, this was not a fishing trip. The trawler was built in Beverley. My question is - what would this "run" be for. Does anyone know?
> 
> The trawler involved was the Sicyon GY376, the year 1939.
> 
> Incidentally, I can't find a picture for the Sicyon. The person I am researching seems to have specialised in serving on trawlers no one took photographs of !! If anyone, knows where I might find a picture, I'd love to hear about it.
> 
> Hilary


Could the "A run to the Clyde" have been to prepare her for war service as a minesweeper?. She was a minesweeper from NOVEMBER/1939 to JULY/1946. I was unable to find a photo of her, but there might be one when she was the "Lady Margot". PS I also noticed her number was changed to (FY 669). Or was this a different vessel?.


----------



## billblow

Hello Hilary
According to a list compiled by Dave Todd the Grimsby Central Library have no photo's as GY 376 but one as WW2 vessel FY 669 Sicyon or else H 188 Lady Margot
billblow


----------



## mattarosa

cueball44 said:


> Could the "A run to the Clyde" have been to prepare her for war service as a minesweeper?. She was a minesweeper from NOVEMBER/1939 to JULY/1946.
> 
> That sounds quite likely as the "run" was in September 1939. Thank you.


----------



## mattarosa

billblow said:


> Hello Hilary
> According to a list compiled by Dave Todd the Grimsby Central Library have no photo's as GY 376 but one as WW2 vessel FY 669 Sicyon or else H 188 Lady Margot
> billblow[/QUOTE
> 
> Thank you, Bill. I had heard that Grimsby Central Library was closed for a few months, I am not sure why or whether they are still able to respond to enquiries, but I will try.
> Hilary


----------



## Kerbtrawler

Hi Mattarosa,
its currently closed undergoing structural changes, used to be 5/6 floors now only 2 so a lot of reorgansing going on

cheers


----------



## mattarosa

billblow said:


> Hello Hilary
> According to a list compiled by Dave Todd the Grimsby Central Library have no photo's as GY 376 but one as WW2 vessel FY 669 Sicyon or else H 188 Lady Margot
> billblow


Hi Bill
Just wanted to let you know that Grimsby Library has got a picture of Sicyon as GY 376 and are going to send it to me at a reasonable cost, so thanks very much for the lead.

Is Dave's list available anywhere? I always seem to be looking for trawler pictures.

Hilary


----------



## mattarosa

Kerbtrawler said:


> Hi Mattarosa,
> its currently closed undergoing structural changes, used to be 5/6 floors now only 2 so a lot of reorgansing going on
> 
> cheers


Thanks for the info. It's the second time the library has been closed because I went up there a few months ago and it was closed then. Still, they are still dealing with enquiries. I've always found it a very helpful library, so hope there are no thoughts of closing it, or parts of it, or reducing the service.
Hilary


----------



## billblow

Hilary
I gather Dave not too well at the moment but told he is on the mend.
His list he did when sorting and cataloguing all their trawler photographs.
Bill


----------



## warpo

Hi all,

I'm desperately looking for a photograph of the SS Yarmouth, GY334. Official number 108471.

The Grimsby archives told me they hold records of trawlers up to 1914. Anything after that I would have to take a trip to Cleethorpes while they renovate the Grimsby Library research department. However the image they have is of the "Margaret".

I'm researching as my Great Grandfather apparently commited suicide on it between the 6th and 10th July 1915. However, the ship i'm after was lost at sea in a later voyage in 1915, and I was told that it's number was then given to the "Margaret". A picture of the "Margaret" is here. But that's not the one I want, I want the Yarmouth....! Oh my this is so difficult this family history!

On Mr Roger Griffiths advice I have requested info from the National Maritime Museum and form the crew list index. On the index search I get the following result: 1914: S1 / 1915: S1. I've requested a quote for the full agreement and logbook for 1915. Hope it doesn't cost a lot. Fingers crossed I get somewhere, but i'm losing faith I will find an image of the Yarmouth GY334.

So please, any help would be massively appreciated.
Dean


----------



## gkh151

Warpo,

As far as I know the number GY334 was given to two Trawlers one being the Yarmouth the other was the James Evans. Margaret the trawler was GY1112.

Yarmouth left Grimsby and was reported missing on 8th November 1915. It seems it is not known what happened to her. The photo you have is a seine netter and is much more recent. I will look through my photo's and see if I have one if I do I will PM you.

I hope this helps.
Graham


----------



## warpo

This is the picture I think I linked to, I apologise if I taken picture without permission.

Because it says GY334 and the flag at top of the ship says Margaret, I pressumed this was the case.

I hold my hands up to admit I know nothing of trawlers so don't know what a seine netter is, But I would be so grateful for your help.


----------



## gkh151

Warpo,

I have found that she belonged to Consolidated Fisheries but there seems to be nothing further in the records I have seen for them. The ship in your photo was lost out of Jersey and is nothing to do with your research.

Graham


----------



## warpo

Thanks, i'll keep that in mind.
If of any interest to you all, here is an amazing article I found in the New Zealand paper archive. I photoshop'ed it to make it much smaller as the image was the whole column. Why on earth this got reported that far away is beyond me:

Source is here right at the bottom and carries on to the next page: 
Auckland Star, Volume XLVI, Issue 205, 28 August 1915, Page 14 and 15

http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cg...-------10--121----0COWLEY+and+Timaru-ARTICLE-


----------



## gkh151

Warpo,

The crew list for when she went missing is as follows:-

Missing Register closed December 1915,

J Blyth,
T Postle,
T Marks,
A Ree,
C Critton,
J Gifrig,
J Bray,
B Harris,
J Meek.


It could be Possible that some of the crew where on the ship when your Great Grandfather was on her.

Graham.


----------



## warpo

It would be very likely I assume, maybe on the reports Ive asked for from RMG


----------



## Roger Griffiths

gkh151 said:


> As far as I know the number GY334 was given to two Trawlers one being the Yarmouth the other was the James Evans


My records suggest that there were at least two other vessels who had the port number GY334

PILOT official number 56980 1871-1892

and 

PRINCESS ACTHEEN? a small 32.72 ton vessel from 27/June/1940 until 29/April/1941 

Could anyone confirm and give the correct name for PRINCESS ACTHEEN?

Thanks and regards 

Roger


----------



## gkh151

Roger,

Yes you are correct the registration was given to other vessels but the info I have says they where not trawlers as I have said one was the siene netter in Warpo's photo not sure about the Princess Actheen. I will have a look and see what I can find.

Regards.
Graham.


----------



## gkh151

Warpo,

You may find the attached link of interest.

http://www.a***faegovan.com/shipbuilding/ships/mackieships.php

Graham


----------



## Roger Griffiths

Sorry Graham,
My post was not intended to reflect on Warpo's question. I just wished to clarify my own records. Find attached from returns of GY fishing vessels 1933-1938.
regards
Roger


----------



## Steve Farrow

Hi Warpo,
Here is a painting that I did of the ABERDEEN, a sister-ship to the YARMOUTH. This may give you a good idea of what she looked like.....

Regards

Steve


----------



## warpo

Thanks Graham, very helpful.
And thank you too Steve, amazing artwork. Just wish the yarmouth would've been the subject of your painting.


----------



## mattarosa

billblow said:


> Hilary
> I gather Dave not too well at the moment but told he is on the mend.
> His list he did when sorting and cataloguing all their trawler photographs.
> Bill


Sorry Bill, I have only just seen this message. I was really sorry to hear that Dave was not well, hope he is recovering.

I will try to get up to Grimsby library when it reopens next year. 

So sorry for the delay in responding.

Hilary


----------



## Kerbtrawler

*GY Registrations*

Happy New year all
I have just finished listing all of the GY registrations from GY 1 - 1399
giving the names and dates held by each registry in numerical order

Please have a look and let me know if I have missed any

here is the link 

cheers


----------



## Roger Griffiths

Well done Trevor!
Have sent you a mail with some ammendments. Will get back with others. Would not allow me to attach on the forum.

regards
Roger


----------



## Kerbtrawler

Hi Roger
Many thanks just going through the email now, look forward to hearing from you soon

Very Best regards and a happy new year


----------



## jp1885

Hi,

Does anyone have a photo of GY140 Fortuna?

EDIT: or indeed any vessel that looked similar.

Thanks in advance!


----------



## laurie bartle

Clem, great thread, I have recently found out that my G Grandfather was lost off a Grimsby Fishing Smack in 1882 I wondered if you or others may have a picture of this type of Vessel the actual one was called Adventure GY 181 03/1869 until 08/1882 (thanks to Kerbtrawler's list)
It sank due to a collision with a Steamer called Woodstock out of Leith even a picture of this would be great, fingers crossed, cheers Laurie


----------



## roy barker

Hi Clem iam trying to find out about a fhising boat called LIBYAN built 1913 reg grimsby the reason for this is a friend brought a house in essex and it has the ships bell inside the deeds say the bell must stay in the house do you know anything about this ship thankyou roy


----------



## Kerbtrawler

Hi Roy 
I have a photo of the Libiyan 
let me know if you want a copy

cheers


----------



## Kerbtrawler

Hi Roy 
I have just uploaded the details on the Libyan on my website 

have a look, I will put further details on later tonight

cheers


----------



## Kerbtrawler

Have just finished the 1918 - 1919 lost trawlers section 
it only has the basic information for now 

cheers


----------



## MaxwellGY314

*MFV Grimsby*

Hello

I have pics of Maxwell GY314 and can give you some of her history if you are interested.

I couldn't see her on your list but is worthy of a mention

(Hippy)


----------



## Kerbtrawler

hi maxwell
sounds good send me a PM with you email and I can then get the info uploaded

cheers


----------



## Bill Norman

*GY 499 ('Victoria' or 'Victrix') lost 28 June 1940*

Clem,
I'm an aviation author researching the loss of trawlers due to Luftwaffe activity during WWII. GY 499 ('Victoria' or 'Victrix') seems to be a candidate. Does anyone have ANY information on trawler and/or crew?

Bill Norman
(www.billnorman.co.uk)


----------



## gil mayes

See my post above.
Gil.


----------



## Kerbtrawler

Hi Bill 
The Registry GY 499 was held by the Victory in 1898 changing to the Victrix in 1915 until 1919

I will see if there is any other information concerning the event tonight 

cheers


----------



## NettieB

Hi Clem. I have just discovered your site and am really interested in finding out more about trawlers/tugs etc belonging to Thomas Baskcomb or any of the family. I am his great grand daughter (from Albert) and am doing family tree searches. Any photos you have access to would be great!


----------



## trireme789

*Trawler Nuttallia 1907*

Hell Everyone,
Looking for information on my late mothers father,Joseph Pett GY trawler skipper.In 1907 there was a man lost overboard from the trawler Nuttalia,Joseph was the skipper.I believe it was in January 1907 near the Western Isles,in exceptionally heavy weather.
Would appreciate any information regarding the vessel or the incident,any pictures of the trawler would be a bonus.
Regards
Brian


----------



## Douglas Paterson

I have found a very detailed report of the incident in the newspaper archive in Aberdeen Central Library. I will set up a file for the boat on my website when I get a moment and include a transcript of it.
Douglas
www.fishingboatheritage.com


----------



## Bill Norman

*Gy 449*

Douglas,
Does your response relate to the Nuttalia or the Castelton?

Bill Norman


----------



## Douglas Paterson

The Nuttallia...............sorry I didnt make that clear.
Douglas
www.fishingboatheritage.com


----------



## Douglas Paterson

The detail I have for the Nuttallia
http://www.fishingboatheritage.com/index.php/new-items/9190-gy-1095-nuttallia-1899-1917
Regards


----------



## Bill Norman

Hello all,
You might like to know that the Grimsby Telegraph has agreed to publish the piece I sent re. 'Castleton'. It will appear next Monday, 30 June. I sent a 'shortish' piece (780 words), which gives the basics of the incident but does not include photographs: I am saving those for a much longer (magazine) article and for inclusion in a book.
Thanks for your help, which is much appreciated.

Bill Norman
(Webpage www.billnorman.co.uk)


----------



## trireme789

Douglas Paterson said:


> I have found a very detailed report of the incident in the newspaper archive in Aberdeen Central Library. I will set up a file for the boat on my website when I get a moment and include a transcript of it.
> Douglas
> www.fishingboatheritage.com


Good Morning Douglas,
Thank you for the information,the skippers name was Joesph Pett,my wifes grandfather.She was led to believe that he was given a hard time at the Board of Trade enquiry,so much so that he only sailed as mate thereafter.Not sure how we could establish if that was the case,once more thanks for responding.
Best Regards
Brian Mc inally


----------



## Dave the Vicar

No mention of Northern Trawlers. Lord xxx ? Lord Howe was my first ship, 1965


----------



## Brigsy

Hi ,
I'm looking for information on the former Grimsby fishing vessel Jarvit GY233 believed to have been built in Ostend Belgium in 1960. 
There are a couple of photos on the net of her fishing off Staithes in 1983 but I have been unable to locate any more information. 
I',m interested in details of her former ownership and particularly her gross/net tonnage but any information or leads would be appreciated.
She is currently owned by friends who seek the information and lies in Preston marina where she has been undergoing a lengthy re-fit to prepare her for diving charters.

many thanks, 

David


----------



## billblow

Brigsy
1978 Olsens
Jarvit
GY 233 
Net tonnage 32
Gross tonnage 32 
Built 1961 Ostend
Owner T. Tuplin Cleethorpes and others
billblow


----------



## Brigsy

billblow,
Many thanks for the info on Jarvit. The North East Lincs Archive records and others strangely hold no details whatsoever on this vessel so this information is priceless. 
Just one further question,not being particularly nautical myself is it normal for the gross & net tonnage to be the same?
thanks again,
David.


----------



## billblow

David
I don't know just how it is worked out but a glance at any page in Olsens shows 60% plus of smaller fishing vessels have Net and Gross Tonnage shown as the same figure.
It doesn't seem to apply as vessels get over 100.
It prompts me now to look and see just how this happens.
Bill


----------



## Brigsy

Bill,
Many thanks, I have passed the info that you have supplied on the my friends who now own the vessel and they are extremely grateful. They feel that the figure of 32 seems very low as they had expected a figure of between 50 and 90. They are particularly interested in the tonnage because the boat has to be lifted out of the water in the near future in order that she may be inspected to get the required certificates etc. 
They have advised me that they also have the number "N750" in relation to this vessel which I suspect may be the original Belgian registration number which I think may place it at Nieuwpoort just south of Ostend.
Thanks again,
David


----------



## mattarosa

*Venus 1931/2*

Hello everyone. I have not visited SN for a very long time and feel a bit guilty that I am visiting now because I am looking for help. I used to be a regular contributor but sometimes life sweeps you off in other directions.

For the last year or so, I have been trying to trace the fishing career of one Grimsby fisherman in the period 1930-1940 with some success. I have traced voyages on 40 different trawlers! But there are still gaps and I haven't yet found out what I really want to know, which is the very first trawler the person sailed on. Luckily, I am not a girl for giving up.

I stalled in Jan 1932 when my fisherman did a trip on the Caspian. Unfortunately, the official crew agreement for that trip was lost and a sort of substitute was filed. Unfortunately this did not include the name of the previous ship. Many searches later, I have found the fisherman did a trip on the Hercules GY811 from December 1931 to January 1932. This should have put me back on the trail but instead, it has created another mystery.

The previous ship on the crew agreement seems to me to say VENUS. If you look at the attached, I have left the entry two up, which says Vidette and you can see the V is the same. The squiggle above the name is, I think GY (most ships in this column had this squiggle, but one or two had LT, so I think it's a port designation).

So far, so good. BUT....

I cannot find a trawler called Venus that was sailing in Grimsby in 1931/2. I have checked the Mercantile Navy List and Olsens.

Any ideas anyone? I would be so grateful for any leads to follow up as I don't know where to go from here. 

I don't know if it helps to know that all the trawlers my fishermen sailed on had J N Bacon as the owner (or registered managing owner).

Thanks for listening!

Hilary


----------



## billblow

Hello Hilary,
I think what you are looking for is GY 249 Vinur.
Look at the R in Hercules it is same as what you thought was the S of Venus
Owner at the time Vinur Steam Fishing Co. Ltd. and do not think Bacon involved but not certain.
Bill


----------



## mattarosa

billblow said:


> Hello Hilary,
> I think what you are looking for is GY 249 Vinur.
> 
> Wow Bill, I don't know why I didn't think of that. I was hoping for a lead and I think that's a fantastic one. I will let you know if my fisherman is on the Vinur and, if he is, I owe you big time. Thank you.
> 
> Hilary


----------



## oystersmack

milmur64 said:


> Hello,
> 
> I am trying to find out more about my Grand Father John Murray's fishing vessel called the Genera GY 382. My Grand Father died in 1957 and my Uncle William Murray skippered her until his death in circa 1975.
> 
> If anyone has any details about her please let me know.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Jonathan



Hello Johnathan.............At the end of Genara's fishing life, which seemed to be unusually long , she was saved from the dreadful chainsaw execution that ultimately befell most of these fine vessels, by two partners who became her custodians for a second phase in her life.

If you send me a P.M. I can tell you what I know............


----------



## mattarosa

billblow said:


> Hello Hilary,
> I think what you are looking for is GY 249 Vinur.
> 
> I have let Bill know in a private message that he was absolutely right and I am very grateful for his help.
> 
> Hilary


----------



## Alan Denison

DennisT said:


> I don't know if this is the correct site to ask but I am a genealogist and wish to trace any living relatives of the Denison Family.
> 
> My Great Grandfather was John Denison, a Trawler Captain. known as Hawthorn Jack because of his walking stick. His son Frank was also a Captain and two of his son's, Ivor and Alan also went to sea. Frank's brother, Cyril, was was killed in 1941 on board the OPHIR II.
> 
> I know from an article in the Grimsby Telegraph dated 5 December 2002 that in 1961 Ivor served as mate on the GY48 ****nal.
> 
> Any further information greatly appreciated.


We have the same great grandfather. Alan Denison, Skipper Alan denison son. Any famaily info I can help with. I.E. Frank never made skipper due to colour blindness.


----------



## Alan Denison

DennisT said:


> I don't know if this is the correct site to ask but I am a genealogist and wish to trace any living relatives of the Denison Family.
> 
> My Great Grandfather was John Denison, a Trawler Captain. known as Hawthorn Jack because of his walking stick. His son Frank was also a Captain and two of his son's, Ivor and Alan also went to sea. Frank's brother, Cyril, was was killed in 1941 on board the OPHIR II.
> 
> I know from an article in the Grimsby Telegraph dated 5 December 2002 that in 1961 Ivor served as mate on the GY48 ****nal.
> 
> Any further information greatly appreciated.


We have the same great grandfather. Alan Denison, Skipper Alan Denisons son. Any famaily info I can help with. I.E. Frank never made skipper due to colour blindness.


----------



## mattarosa

*Grimsby Nautical School*

Does anyone know anything about the Grimsby Nautical School, or know where I can find information about it. There are some super pictures of it at Grimsby Library and I have looked at the Admission Registers at the Grimsby Archives, but these only record the admission date and not the leaving date, so what I am particularly interested in is how long the students would have remained at the School and what they would have learnt there. Some of the Admission Registers were for Nets and Netmaking, but either there was more to it, or there were various levels as one fisherman attended 4 times. The Archives didn't have any information at all other than the admission registers, but advanced the theory that he may have gone "between fishing trips". If anyone has any suggestions where I could find out more, I would be very grateful.


----------



## mattarosa

mattarosa said:


> Does anyone know anything about the Grimsby Nautical School, or know where I can find information about it. There are some super pictures of it at Grimsby Library and I have looked at the Admission Registers at the Grimsby Archives, but these only record the admission date and not the leaving date, so what I am particularly interested in is how long the students would have remained at the School and what they would have learnt there. Some of the Admission Registers were for Nets and Netmaking, but either there was more to it, or there were various levels as one fisherman attended 4 times. The Archives didn't have any information at all other than the admission registers, but advanced the theory that he may have gone "between fishing trips". If anyone has any suggestions where I could find out more, I would be very grateful.


I forgot to say, the period I am looking at is the early 1930s.


----------



## Dave the Vicar

mattarosa said:


> Does anyone know anything about the Grimsby Nautical School, or know where I can find information about it. There are some super pictures of it at Grimsby Library and I have looked at the Admission Registers at the Grimsby Archives, but these only record the admission date and not the leaving date, so what I am particularly interested in is how long the students would have remained at the School and what they would have learnt there. Some of the Admission Registers were for Nets and Netmaking, but either there was more to it, or there were various levels as one fisherman attended 4 times. The Archives didn't have any information at all other than the admission registers, but advanced the theory that he may have gone "between fishing trips". If anyone has any suggestions where I could find out more, I would be very grateful.


I attended (what I think was) the Grimsby Nautical school. Twice. in 1964, for (if I remember correctly) some 6 weeks. Location Lock Hill, in an old school. There we learned the basics necessary to serve as a deck hand on the GY trawlers. Netmaking, mending (I can still do it - and did last year!). Very basic navigation, fish identification, knowing the parts of the trawl net, how the boat used it etc. 

The second time, 65-67 I was training as an RO for the MN (though trawler RO's trained there as well). This was at Nuns corner, GY, still there. Alongside this trawler deckhands trained for bosun, mate and skipper qualifications. Likewise MN deck officers trained up to ( I think) Captain level, though I can't swear to that. 

Anything further please ask, if this is useful.


----------



## Kerbtrawler

I went there to take my CSE in Nautical & Navigation studies in the early 70's, we were taught navigation, knots, using a bosuns chair to basic seamanship, this was a prelude to either going into the fishing industry or the Navy

You had every type of person connected to the sea going including the Danish as the school was one of the best for hands on training

cheers


----------



## mattarosa

Dave the Vicar said:


> I attended (what I think was) the Grimsby Nautical school. Twice. in 1964, for (if I remember correctly) some 6 weeks. Location Lock Hill, in an old school. There we learned the basics necessary to serve as a deck hand on the GY trawlers. Netmaking, mending (I can still do it - and did last year!). Very basic navigation, fish identification, knowing the parts of the trawl net, how the boat used it etc.
> 
> The second time, 65-67 I was training as an RO for the MN (though trawler RO's trained there as well). This was at Nuns corner, GY, still there. Alongside this trawler deckhands trained for bosun, mate and skipper qualifications. Likewise MN deck officers trained up to ( I think) Captain level, though I can't swear to that.
> 
> Anything further please ask, if this is useful.



This is very useful, thank you.


----------



## mattarosa

Kerbtrawler said:


> I went there to take my CSE in Nautical & Navigation studies in the early 70's, we were taught navigation, knots, using a bosuns chair to basic seamanship, this was a prelude to either going into the fishing industry or the Navy
> 
> You had every type of person connected to the sea going including the Danish as the school was one of the best for hands on training
> 
> cheers



Thanks for the info. I found a picture on the Internet from about 1939 I think, where one of the boys is in some sort of chair thing. I thought it was a breeches boy (buoy?) but I'll now go and Google what a bosun's chair is.


----------



## mattarosa

*Nautical School*

Here's the picture I found.

http://tinyurl.com/l32oxea


----------



## Kerbtrawler

Hi Hilary,
the bosun's chair was basically a plank of wood that you used to lower yourself down the side of the trawler typically for painting the sides of the boat and so on 
the idea was you could raise and lower yourself using a special Knot but if you got it wrong you went down very very quickly
one exercise taught was in the class room where they hung a rope from the ceiling, you tied the knot onto the bosun's chair and had to raise yourself up to the ceiling and then back down again to prove that you understood how to tie the knot, similar to those used by mountain climbers


----------



## mattarosa

Kerbtrawler said:


> Hi Hilary,
> the bosun's chair was basically a plank of wood that you used to lower yourself down the side of the trawler typically for painting the sides of the boat and so on
> the idea was you could raise and lower yourself using a special Knot but if you got it wrong you went down very very quickly
> one exercise taught was in the class room where they hung a rope from the ceiling, you tied the knot onto the bosun's chair and had to raise yourself up to the ceiling and then back down again to prove that you understood how to tie the knot, similar to those used by mountain climbers


Crikey. Surely Health & Safety will have knocked that on the head these days, unless they put a feather mattress underneath for lads to fall on


----------



## mattarosa

*Greenland*

I have another question, if anyone can help.

Is there a certain size of trawler that could go to Greenland (again thinking late 1920s/early 1930s) or some other way of identifying trawlers that might have gone there as opposed to North Sea fishing? I want to try and figure out what Grimsby trawlers in this time period might have been making fishing trips to Greenland, but I have no idea how.

Thanks for listening!

Hilary


----------



## aavh

If you go through the old newspapers around 1890-1900 they report small 100 to 120 ft boats fishing off Greenland etc. There is a report of an Aberdeen trawlers docking in Boston, USA for coal. I think these were mainly line fishing.


----------



## mattarosa

aavh said:


> If you go through the old newspapers around 1890-1900 they report small 100 to 120 ft boats fishing off Greenland etc. There is a report of an Aberdeen trawlers docking in Boston, USA for coal. I think these were mainly line fishing.


Thank you for the information. I had assumed that the trawlers that went to Greenland would be bigger than the ones which did not go as far. The voyages must have been much longer and they would have had to carry more provisions, fuel etc.


----------



## Maruki

*"SS Lincoln" and "The Belvoir Castle"*

I am trying to trace a member of my family, Christmas Pull, for Family History purposes. He was an apprentice Fisherman on the "SS Lincoln" out of Grimsby according to the 1901 Census return. He does not appear on the 1911 Census return. 

However I have found the following which may be the same person.

From The Lincoln, Rutland and Stamford Mercury newspaper for Friday December 12 1902. I believe him to be working for The Crampin Steam Fishing Company on "The Belvoir Castle" but cannot confirm this.

After this there appears to be no further records of this member of my family and I would like to know what happened to him....was he lost at sea etc. How can I find out any further information or does anyone on this site have information which would be of help to me. If anyone can help me I would be grateful. Thanks.


----------



## TSJ59

Hi, 
PULL, Christmas, signed indentures 23 Aug 1900. NEL Archives Ref 208/1,
Register 11, Page 146. The registers are not on line but I can look him up on my next visit to the archives and send you a photo of his entry (which may provide some answers!), possibly later this week.

Terry


----------



## Maruki

*"SS Lincoln" and "The Belvoir Castle"*

Terry, Thank you very much for the information. That is another little piece to add to the jigsaw. I look forward to anything else that you might find that would be useful in the search for Christmas. I know he was 13 or 14 when he was on the Lincoln and 14 or 15 when on the Belvoir Castle but after that we have nothing. Thank you for your help. When he signed the indentures he was 12 yrs of age which I understand is not uncommon in those days.


----------



## dave bonner

*Prince Leo GY920*

Hi all,I've just discovered this site and wondered if anyone can remember Prince Leo.I was a decky learner for one trip in 1955 but spent more time stoking and trimming coal.The only name I can remember is John Shannon,Ch,Engineer who lived in Cleethorpes.It turned out that I was too young to work "below".Ended up going to MN seaschool and Merchant Navy but vividly remember this old steam trawler,spent 10 days in the north sea.slept on straw filled matresses,think they were known as "donkeys breakfasts",also clatter of clogs in Grimsby fish dock.Any more information ?


----------



## billblow

Dave

photo here
http://www.shipsnostalgia.com/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/244140/title/prince-leo/cat/522

billblow


----------



## joanofacre

Hi All, I am not sure if I am in the correct forum.....I am looking for any information on Steam Trawler "Stirling" which was lost out of Grimsby 24/02/1915. Possibly with all hands, including my Great Great Granddad Samuel Gates (born 1851 Great Yarmouth). He was 63 yo, and living with his wife in Kent st, Grimsby. She was also mother of Robert Cubitt Golding-RN Skipper, and grandson Herbert Cubitt -on mine sweepers. She had lost her first husband, a smack fisherman from Great yarmouth, at sea in early1870's. There is mention of the loss of the Stirling on the Mercantile Monument @ Tower Hill, however I have found very little detail about what did or may have happened. Thanks in advance for your assistance. Joan Note also posted in Hull Trawlers Thread


----------



## Douglas Paterson

Details for Stirling:
http://www.fishingboatheritage.com/index.php/england/111-gy-grimsby/9498-gy-765-stirling-1898-1915


----------



## joanofacre

Thank-you Douglas!


----------



## amble

facebook page coble and keelboat is very very good and page lots of photos of cobles and trawlers


----------



## albertgp

Hi Mattarosa, hi all, i joined yesterday& am feeling my way about,im'e not comp lit, i was 18 yearold deckie aboard "Northern Sceptre" who escorted "Northern Dawn" to Hammerfest from Bear Island with her coal bunkers on fire


----------



## albertgp

*"Grimsby trawler Northern Dawn"*



albertgp said:


> Hi Mattarosa, hi all, i joined yesterday& am feeling my way about,im'e not comp lit, i was 18 yearold deckie aboard "Northern Sceptre" who escorted "Northern Dawn" to Hammerfest from Bear Island with her coal bunkers on fire, Dawn had just arrived Bear Isle direct fom Grimsby a six day steam off useing coal stowed in her fishroom, this supply ended, water tight doors to main bunkers were raised allowing air in and both stb&prt bunkers which exploded causing a serious fire, w/t doors were quickley dropped to starve fire of oxegen, steam smothering valves opened filling bunkers with steam damping downthe fires,Dawn was fired with coal from the "wingbunkers" she steamed to Hammerfest under her own power with "Scepter" in very close company arriving Hammerfest safely without further incident.


----------



## albertgp

*"Grimsby trawler Northern Dawn"*

(Cloud)(Cloud)(Cloud)(Cloud)(Cloud)


albertgp said:


> Hi Mattarosa, hi all, i joined yesterday& am feeling my way about,im'e not comp lit, i was 18 yearold deckie aboard "Northern Sceptre" who escorted "Northern Dawn" to Hammerfest from Bear Island with her coal bunkers on fire, Dawn had just arrived Bear Isle direct fom Grimsby a six day steam off useing coal stowed in her fishroom, this supply ended, water tight doors to main bunkers were raised allowing air in and both stb&prt bunkers exploded causing a serious fire, w/t doors were quickley dropped to starve fire of oxegen, steam smothering valves opened filling bunkers with steam damping downthe fires,Dawn was fired with coal from the "wingbunkers" she steamed to Hammerfest under her own power with "Scepter" in very close company arriving Hammerfest safely without further incident


----------



## joeb

Looking for any information on crew of FV Imperial Queen (GY 502).
Also any ideas on area of sea where lost, last known position.
Family information on one of crew confirms only that it "blew up and sank."


----------



## laurie bartle

She was declared lost so actual date and area difficult to pin down she was last seen by the vesssel "Onward" on 20th Jul 1920 she was 15 days into her voyage aparently according to newspaper she should have only been away for 5 days and was thought to be heading home when spotted if I find anything else will post cheers Laurie


----------



## laurie bartle

Crew of Imperial Queen memorial plaque in tower hill london

Surname	Forename	Age	Honours/Awards	D.O.D	Rank	Cemetery/Memorial	Grave Ref	Additional Information
Boyington	Horace	40 28/07/1920	Engineman	Tower Hill Memorial Husband Of Mrs. Boyington, Of 142, Newmarket St., Grimsby. Born At Grimsby.
Byrne	William	26 28/07/1920	Spare Hand	Tower Hill Memorial Husband Of Mrs. Byrne, Of 93, Castle St., Grimsby. Born In Ireland.
Chapman	Walter Alfred	65 28/07/1920	Mate	Tower Hill Memorial Son Of The Late William And Susan Chapman; Husband Of The Late Mrs. Chapman. Born At Barking, Essex.
Croucher	Dan Geoffrey	17 28/07/1920	Deck Hand	Tower Hill Memorial Son Of Emily Louisa Davies (Formerly Croucher), Of 94, Tunnard St., Grimsby, And The Late Harry Croucher.
Fletcher	Thomas Martin	36 28/07/1920	Trimmer	Tower Hill Memorial Son Of The Late Mr. And Mrs. Fletcher; Husband Of Sarah Jane Fletcher, Of 16, Railway Tea Gardens St., Grimsby. Born At Hull.
Hill	Charles Ernest	50 28/07/1920	Skipper	Tower Hill Memorial Husband Of E. J. Hill, Of 12, Garnett St., Cleethorpes.
Jacobsen	John Thomas	17 28/07/1920	Trimmer	Tower Hill Memorial Son Of Benedictus And Alice Ann Jacobsen, Of 12, Garibaldi St., Grimsby.
McIver	Sidney Ernest	28 28/07/1920	Third Hand	Tower Hill Memorial Son Of The Late Mr. And Mrs. McIver; Husband Of Arabella McIver (Nee Hamilton), Of 4, Barcroft St., New Cleethorpes. Born At Norwich.
Richardson	Francis Morton Titherton	33 28/07/1920	Second Engineman	Tower Hill Memorial Son Of The Late Mr. And Mrs. Richardson. Born At Newark.
Russell	Albert Edward	21 28/07/1920	Deck Hand	Tower Hill Memorial Son Of William And Julia Russell; Husband Of Mabel Russell (Nee Bonner), Of 14, Sussex St., New Cleethorpes. Born At East Barkwith, Lincs.
Williamson	Richard	39 28/07/1920	Cook	Tower Hill Memorial Son Of Christy Williamson, And The Late Mrs. Williamson; Husband Of Sarah Agatha Williamson, Of 77, Neville St., New Cleethorpes. Born In Ireland.


http://www.benjidog.co.uk/Tower Hill/WW1 Ilaro to Industria.html

I am aware of a picture of the vessel and crew but unable to say if the crew featured were any of the sadly lost men


----------



## joeb

*Gy 502*

Thanks Laurie.
Do you have a link to the newspaper article?
I have the Tower Hill Memorial info and the info from Trevors Trawler.
Any other info will be welcomed.


----------



## laurie bartle

Its a subscription service 
http://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/search
all the articles are fairly general if I find anything that increases the understanding will post prob better if I do find anything to email a picture of the article but I would be surprised if you found out where the wreck is such a shame with all those lives lost not knowing where they rest cheers.


----------



## JRB9019

*GY200 Ostero*

Doing some research, I came across GY200 Ostero.

One piece of info points towards this being a Bannister Trawler - so, registered with any of the 4 companies.

However, another source lists:
Name: OSTERO
Type: Fishing Vessel
Launched: 03/12/1896
Completed: 01/1897
Builder: Edwards Brothers
Yard: North Shields
Yard Number: 539
Dimensions: 138grt, 45nrt, 101.0 x 20.6 x 10.8ft
Engines: T3cyl (11, 17 & 30 x 21ins), 44nhp
Engines by: North-Eastern Marine Engineering Co Ltd, Sunderland
Propulsion: 1 x Screw
Construction: Iron
Reg Number: 106700

History: 
01/1897 White Star Steam Fishing Co Ltd, Grimsby
by 1910 Henry Smethurst, Grimsby
by 1918 George Smith, Grimsby
1922 William Would, Grimsby
1924 Walter Garratt, Grimsby
1930 Fred B Jeffs, Grimsby
1931 Thomas W Baskcomb, Grimsby
1935 Broken up

So no connections to Bannister at all.

THe only other info I found was a mention of her in a Dutch report from 11 January 1900. Sadly, my Dutch is not quite good enough to understand all of it.

This extract is from the Scarborough papers dated 1916.... 

Grimsby as well suffered badly at the same time from U-boat attacks. Eleven trawlers were sunk on one night. They were The Andromeda, Mercury, Resino, Restless, Vivella, Rego, Devonshire, Beachwood, Britannia, Welsby and John Grant. The trawlers were stripped of everything useful and sank. Some trawlers escaped. One Hull trawler cut her gear and escaped under fire. The boats containing the crews were picked up by the *Ostero* and towed into Grimsby. 

Any info gratefully received....
John


----------



## IAN M

GRAND OLD LADIES, by Steve Richards and published in 1990 by Archive Publications Ltd. in association with the Grimsby Evening Telegraph, contains what they call 'Grimsby's Great Trawler Stories'.


----------



## LBgum

*Gy49*

Hi all

I wonder if anyone can help me identify the trawler (front, left) in the attached picture?
Its number appears to be GY49, so I think would be either Croton (1914-1920), Larwood (1929-35) or Persian Empire (1945-1954).
Looking at the photo, its about 3.5in by 2in, and the paper seems similar to ones from the 1930's to 50's which makes me think one of the later two. 
However I have seen similar photo-types from WW1, so she could be the Croton.

I'm also interested in the wreck, but I thought if I could identify the trawler, which is perhaps salvaging cargo, it would help narrow down the timeframe for the picture.

Thanks in advance for any comments.


----------



## themacleanfamily

Hello
I'm currently trying to track down a photograph of the Grimsby Registered Steam Trawler Defender (GY1279) which was wrecked at Skerryvore near Tiree on 14/11/1909. She was built in 1903 in Hull and was owned at the time of her loss by 'Alec Black'.
I'm hoping that with all the specialist knowledge of Grimsby boats on this thread that someone might be able to point me in the right direction.
Any help appreciated


----------



## laurie bartle

Have'nt got photo but do have acces to a couple of newspaper reports about wreck if thats any help i.e. WREOK OF A GRIMSBY TRAWLER
“... OF A GRIMSBY TRAWLER. The Grimsby steam trawler Defender, fino steel ... ” 
First match of your search in this article.
Thursday 18 November 1909 , Yorkshire Post and Leeds Intelligencer , West Yorkshire, England 
Type: Article Words: 92 Page: 9 Tags: none
BookmarkView
Aberdeen Journal
TRAWLER WRECKED IN THE PENTLAND FIRTH
“... TRAWLER WRECKED IN THE PENTLAND FIRTH. CREW'S TRYING EXPERIENCE. The stirring story of the wreck of the Grimsby steam ... ” 
First match of your search in this article.
Friday 19 November 1909 , Aberdeen Journal , Aberdeenshire, Scotland 
Type: Article Words: 279 Page: 4 Tags: none


----------



## themacleanfamily

Hi Thanks for that. I've pretty much exhausted all the newspaper reports but thanks for the pointer. I was really hoping that there may still be a photo of her somewhere that might yet pop up!


----------



## Sigridur Hulda

Hi. I know that this is a very old thread, but Jon Oddson was my great grandfather. I am doing some research on my family history, and I was wondering if you have any other information on him.

Thank you.


----------



## petdenken

*jon Oddson*

helloSigridur

I am unable to provide any answer to your query
My GT GT G/father was Ethelbert Peter Sayers from Grimsby UK
he was skipper of the fishing smack EMPORER in 1850
I do not have any crew lists pr ohoos

Sorry unable to say anymore

best wishes

Peter


----------



## Sigridur Hulda

Thank you for your reply. His name has been mentioned in this post, but that was a while ago.


----------



## richi1st

*Ross Khartoum GY120*

Hi guys, just registered on this site, do you have anything on any of the ross boats out of GY. Not sure how this site works yet but will get into it I am sure. I was looking to something from the Ross Khartoum GY120 in particular. I sailed on her as deckie in the late sixties. Would love to see some pictures also if anyone has them. Cheers guys, here from you soon


----------



## trotterdotpom

If you go into the Gallery and put "Ross Khartoum" into Search, there are a few photos of Ross Khartoum - unfortunately most of them show her aground near Aberdeen. There are photos of other Ross ships in the gallery too.

Welcome to SN.

John T


----------



## cueball44

richi1st said:


> Hi guys, just registered on this site, do you have anything on any of the ross boats out of GY. Not sure how this site works yet but will get into it I am sure. I was looking to something from the Ross Khartoum GY120 in particular. I sailed on her as deckie in the late sixties. Would love to see some pictures also if anyone has them. Cheers guys, here from you soon


 Go to the Gallery, scroll down to fishing vessels. Then press DETAILS and follow the instructions. (Thumb)


----------



## richi1st

*Ross Khartoum GY120*



trotterdotpom said:


> If you go into the Gallery and put "Ross Khartoum" into Search, there are a few photos of Ross Khartoum - unfortunately most of them show her aground near Aberdeen. There are photos of other Ross ships in the gallery too.
> 
> Welcome to SN.
> 
> John T


Thanks for the info ohn, will go an trawl for this. Cheers


----------



## Mrs Fub

*GY 94 Lifeguard*

Anyone remember any of the crew on this ship?  My Dad sailed on her in late 40's early 50's. His name was John Bristow, I know he sailed with Johnny Trail too. Attached photo hopefully! He also sailed on th Isernia.


----------



## Stephen L H

Hello folks, does anybody have a photo of GY679 Garola?


----------



## JustWin

Stephen L H said:


> Hello folks, does anybody have a photo of GY679 Garola?


Here is an image of the ship >


----------



## gino

*O.36 Prince Charles - O.35 Alfred-Edith*

I'am looking for two steamers from Oostende that were sold to the firm Dobson Ship Repaireing C°., Grimsby in July 1933.

Both were built by Cook, Welton & Gemmel in Beverley for A. Golder-B. Brickx & co. and sold in 1928 to S.A. Pêchernies Nationales Belges. On 06-07-1933 were both vessels sold to Dobson, and was the Belgian ships registry closed.


O.36 Prince Charles built 1904 - 112 feet - 22 feet - 12.10 feet built 1904 GT 226 - Nt 102,11
O.35 Alfred-Edith built 1908 - Gt 262 - Nt 113.80

I'm special looking for information of the further career of both vessels in England. First picture O.35 Alfred-Edith - 2° O.36 Prince Charles.


----------



## Kerbtrawler

*Armed Grimsby Trawlers WW2*

Hi all 
I am trying to find information on the armed trawlers from Grimsby during WW2
for my website
Basically what convoys they took part in, Log books, Events and so on

any help is appreciated

regards
Trevor


----------



## Roger Griffiths

Hello Trevor,
Long time no speak, I trust you are well.

I guess you have "Grimsby's Fighting Fleet"

As regards to Logbooks. You may find some early ones in ADM 53 but after early 1940 you may find the odd one by ships name but the majority of RN Logbooks for ships smaller than Cruisers appear not to have survived for the remaining war years. 

Movements of HM ships, including Trawlers, are in the series ADM 199, pieces 2545 to 2577, However they are somewhat sketchy and do not contain day to day movements.

Events concerning individual Trawlers, can be found in ADM1 and ADM 199 by ships name such as
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C4793722

Involvement in convoys, you know the usual places uboat.net , Warsailors, convoy.web

regards 
Roger


----------



## Kerbtrawler

Hello Roger, yes its been quite some time, I am finally now looking up and working on the WW1 and WW2 convoys for the trawlers but am finding it frustrating as the records and lists I have looked at only ref to the ships name so I am taking quite some time to cross ref that they are actually Grimsby Boats

Good to hear from you 

Very best regards
Trevor


----------



## trotterdotpom

*Barney Warman - Silent Key*

Any former Grimsby Radio Operators will be saddened to hear of the death of Barney, former R/O and Ross Trawlers Radio Superintendent, on 13th January, just after his 96th birthday. He died of chronic heart failure at his home in Poole, Dorset.

John T


----------



## seaman38

*Tracing Trawler photos*

Can anyone guide me in the right direction in tracing photos of two trawlers I served on in the 1950's.

#1 

*Swanland H402 built 1915 started life as :-

*Kings Grey GY486

HMT Kings Grey 1915 1919 Pennant 1628 Minesweeper

Kings Grey H402

HMT Kings Grey 1940 -1946 Pennant4.87 and FY502

Arctic Rover H402

Swanland H402 scrapped 1954

#2 

*St Benedict GY592 built 1936 started life as *:-

Kirkella H319

HMT Kirkella Pennant FY174 1939 - 1946 Minesweeper

Kirkella H155

St Benedict GY592 sold 1952

Reneva FD7

Scrapped 1960

Any help appreciated, Thanks


----------



## ronald ribbe

Hello,
I am Ronald Ribbe, from Breskens, The Netherlands. 
I found this topic on the Grimsby trawler history.
For my personal research, I am looking for some history on a small beam trawler which was build in 1963 my hometown and sold to Grimsby in 1967.
She was called "Vier Gebroeders" (Four Brothers) ARM-12, from Arnemuiden, The Netherlands. What I found already is her Grimsby name, which was "Birkdale" GY-1401. She was owned by Stenton Trawlers Ltd.
What I would like to know is what became of her... a source says she was lost at sea, but not for 100% certain...
I do have a photo of her, when she conducted her first sea-trails as "Vier Gebroeders" ARM-12
I hope someone can help me out.

With kindest regards,
Ronald Ribbe, Breskens NL
www.rorifocus.nl


----------



## ronald ribbe

Newbuild in progress at Padmos Shipyard in Stellendam Holland. A brand-new flyshoot-twinrig trawler called "Hendrika Jacoba" GY-127.
When delivered, she will replace the old "Hendrika Jacoba" GY-127, build in 1982 as a beam trawler.
The new trawler will be 25 x 8 meters and fitted with a ABC or Mitsubishi main engine.
Due to the Covid-19 crisis, her commissioning will be delayed, but she will be in service before the end of 2020.


----------



## GSB

wully farquhar said:


> Hi Steve,I have a photograph of the Tanana GY 349 lying hard aground on a island in the Westray Firth Orkney,the crew being saved by the Stronsay lifeboat,this happened in 1958.I cannot post the pic.because it is in a book that i have,you know the score with copy-rights.It is definatly the same boat as the funnel at the back of the superstructure stands out clear in the pic.
> Wully.


I took the photo of the Tanana a few days after she went ashore on the Clumps, off the south end of Westray, Orkney, early in the morning of Sunday 05.10.1958.
If anyone wants details of the grounding or copies of my photos please contact me at - [email protected] .
GSB


----------



## RoboRobo

treeve said:


> *GY 263 Sea Lady (?)*
> 
> I am trying to identify just when Sea Lady was GY 263; others with that Port Reg are Agile, Stella Canopus and Cradock but that was all before 1954(?); Sea Lady was a Belgian built vessel, Ostende 1948, became BM 10 Sea Lady in 1972. Headed for Grimsby after that date. Later history is (BA263) (*PZ 582* ) (OB167) (PL 20), but I have as yet found no record of her under the reported subsequent name of Marlene Ellen. Any advice please, I have searched Penzance Registers 1970-1990 and Defra/Maaf lists 1996-2006. Best Wishes, Raymond
> [/QU
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't know if this was the same vessel but hope the info helps.


----------



## Normo

Clem said:


> Hi everyone, here is a list of vessels I'm currently researching. So if anyone reading this has any information of any kind relating to these vessels (including pics), please let me know by posting here or by PM.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Clem
> 
> GY6 Ross Kelly
> GY19 Stockham
> GY22 Northern Eagle
> GY65 Lancer
> GY68 Tagalie
> GY110 Northern Princess
> GY121 Northern Prince
> GY142 Northern Sea
> GY148 Spurs
> GY190 Northern Spray
> GY204 Northern Gem
> GY245 Euryalus
> GY249 British
> GY263 Cradock
> GY280 Mildenhall
> GY289 Northern Dawn
> GY333 Boston Valetta
> GY354 Peken
> GY389 Taipo
> GY395 Lifeguard
> GY427 Northern Sky
> GY440 Northern Sun
> GY453 Kyoto
> GY457 Clixby
> GY467 Digby
> GY484 Port Vale
> GY507 Recordo
> GY511 Varanis
> GY596 Boston Coronet
> GY600 Osako
> GY625 Recono
> GY661 Tokio
> GY664 Lemberg
> GY679 Garola
> GY689 Okino
> GY810 Strephon
> GY1037 War Duke
> GY1306 Xylopia
> GY1367 Kirmington
> GY Katie Louise
> GY Efficient


Hi Clem
How are you getting on with the list of registered vessels. I came across this post from previously looking at vessels my grandfather was skipper on. His name was Henry Norman from Lowestoft and he was Skipper of GY249 Brittish (HMT British) at the outbreak of ww2. He sailed from Lowestoft to Portland in 1939. He was also a skipper of LT97 Wistaria which I think once was registered in Grimsby?, also GY339 (LT170) Bucentaur, also GY23 (LT279) Walsingham and LT252 Framlingham, not sure if this was ever registered in Grimsby or not. I know he worked for Consolidated Fisheries in his earlier years. Regards Tony Norman


----------



## Kerbtrawler

Morning All,
Got a conundrum Aspasia GY 793 or GY 794








This was sent to me by Birgir of Iceland and as he quite rightly states it shows Aspasia as GY 794 but according to Cox it was only ever registered as GY 793 in fact accordinmg to Cox there never was a GY 794 but to complicate things Cox has it as official number 145541, If you look up this official number, its not Aspasia but a drifter called Asparagus LH 248
so Aspasia should have the official number 138949 According to Olsens 1918
The question becomes which is the correct Registry and which is the correct Official number ?
I await your answers
Cheers
Trevor


----------



## Roger Griffiths

Hello Trevor, long time no speak!
*ALL* of my sources say ASPASIA official number 138949 was GY 793. Some sources say she was built in 1910. by Smiths Dock, Southbank on Tees. Others say 1916, My guess 1916 as she is not recorded in the MNL until 1917.
On GY register 28/2/1916 Sold to Scarborough 8/4/20. SH291
Sold to Hull 9/5/1924. H27
Sold to Portugal 19/10/1926
See Ship Aspasia , official number: 138949. When built: 1910. Registry closed: 1926. | The National Archives
Two boats GY 794
LEITH 1881-1899
TWO COUSINS 1915/1916

regards
Roger


----------



## Roger Griffiths

Normo said:


> Hi Clem
> How are you getting on with the list of registered vessels. I came across this post from previously looking at vessels my grandfather was skipper on. His name was Henry Norman from Lowestoft and he was Skipper of GY249 Brittish (HMT British) at the outbreak of ww2. He sailed from Lowestoft to Portland in 1939. He was also a skipper of LT97 Wistaria which I think once was registered in Grimsby?, also GY339 (LT170) Bucentaur, also GY23 (LT279) Walsingham and LT252 Framlingham, not sure if this was ever registered in Grimsby or not. I know he worked for Consolidated Fisheries in his earlier years. Regards Tony Norman


Hello Tony, 
Was your Grandad named Henry Benjamin Norman born 06/12/1907? If so he has records in the British National Archives. You may aready have this info.





NORMAN, Henry Benjamin, born 06/12/1907 | The National Archives


The official archive of the UK government. Our vision is to lead and transform information management, guarantee the survival of today's information for tomorrow and bring history to life for everyone.




discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk





regards
Roger


----------



## Kerbtrawler

Roger Griffiths said:


> Hello Trevor, long time no speak!
> *ALL* of my sources say ASPASIA official number 138949 was GY 793. Some sources say she was built in 1910. by Smiths Dock, Southbank on Tees. Others say 1916, My guess 1916 as she is not recorded in the MNL until 1917.
> On GY register 28/2/1916 Sold to Scarborough 8/4/20. SH291
> Sold to Hull 9/5/1924. H27
> Sold to Portugal 19/10/1926
> See Ship Aspasia , official number: 138949. When built: 1910. Registry closed: 1926. | The National Archives
> Two boats GY 794
> LEITH 1881-1899
> TWO COUSINS 1915/1916
> 
> regards
> Roger


Hi Roger, Hope your keeping safe and well 
Many thanks for confirming what I could find - it looks like they just painted the wrong number on her 
Bet that took some explaining to the new owners.....
Stay safe my friend
regards Trevor


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## Brian Bevan

Jasper Goedbloed said:


> *The Guava lost after 31 January 1953*
> My grandfathers younger brother George Stone was on board and lost when she went down ironically he took the trip from his father who was due to sail on her, George was “hard up “ and needed the money so his father gave him the trip in his place, he never got over the loss and blamed himself for his sons death.....a very sad family story
> 
> 
> The Lowestoft trawler Guava that was lost during the disastrous storm of 31 January and 1 Februari 1953 is most likely not the Guava originally called British Columbia and built in 1935, as mentioned by Roger Griffith. The site ‘Fleetwood Online Archive of Trawlers’ reports as Date Sunk: 29/09/1957, 4 years later.
> 
> During the storm 9 vessels disappeared and on 4 March 1953 Lloyd’s London dispatched in the Lloyd’s List and Shipping Gazette a ‘Vessel for Inquiry’ message for 8 of these vessels, among these the Guava. The message states (translated back from Dutch to English): “Guava, motor trawler from Lowestoft, registration number 166722, gross tons 285 [personal comment: in contrast to the 134 of the British Columbia], skipper Fisher. Departed from Lowestoft on 30 January 1953. Was reported on 31 January as sailing on 54 20 N, 4 40 E.”
> 
> The book ‘Posted Missing’ by Alan Villiers (Hodder and Stoughton, London, 1956, so 3 years after the disaster) pays due attention to these 9 missing ships. It states that the Guava was built in 1945 in Pembroke and served for some time as a mine-sweeper in the Mediterranean. The ship was sold after WW II and converted into a motor trawler for fishing in the North Sea only. The crew total during its fatal trip was 11.
> 
> Jasper


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## barrietheb

trotterdotpom said:


> I did three trips to Iceland in Port Vale in 1969. Pretty sure the Skipper was Bill Hardie Jr ( known as "Wiggy") - a whizz kid in his early 20s at the time.
> 
> The main thing that stands out in my mind is that she was one of, if not the, last distant water trawler in Grimsby without automatic steering. The deckies refused to sail without it and the company hastily installed a mickey mouse system which operated from the magnetic compass - details very hazy now.
> 
> I have a great picture of the ship, painted by Steve Farrow, which, along with others in his collection, was available at the Fishing Museum, Grimsby.
> 
> John T.


G'Day John T. That would be "Young Billy Hardie" - not to be confused with his Father "Old Man Hardie"! Do you remember Dollie Hardie? I was 2nd Engineer on the PV, also a few more of Consols - my first being Blackburn Rovers with Stan Boggis being my Chief. I finished up in 1977 as relieving Chief on Goth, fishing for mackerel - what a bloody comedown!!


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## Sammienielsen1985

mattarosa said:


> *Gy502*
> 
> Hello everyone
> 
> Any help appreciated to identify this one.
> 
> It is described as Seanetter GY502. I wonder if Seanetter means seine netter?
> 
> Hilary


Do you still have this picture please?


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## rustytrawler

Does anybody from Grimsby remember a man named TOMMY FISHER who worked on Grimsby trawlers, he would of started fishing around 1970, "always had a snotty nose did Tommy, if that helps" thanks rusty trawler


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## v-cm

Hello,
I'm looking for information about the boat Genara from Grimsby, now sailing in France. 
I would be more than interested to have info about her previous life.
Thanks for your answer !


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## carlt

Brigsy said:


> billblow,
> Many thanks for the info on Jarvit. The North East Lincs Archive records and others strangely hold no details whatsoever on this vessel so this information is priceless.
> Just one further question,not being particularly nautical myself is it normal for the gross & net tonnage to be the same?
> thanks again,
> David.


Sadly Jarvit is now abandoned at Preston and available free to a good home on Ebay.

She looks worthy of saving but sadly I am no longer able to take on such a big project.

(Tempted though).


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