# Ethnic backgrounds of merchant radio officers



## phdad (Sep 5, 2019)

Wondering the ethnic backgrounds of merchant radio officers From 1940 - 1970 (i.e., Irish, Scottish, English, Welch, American and etc.)?
Also wondering which group had the largest percentage?


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## tunatownshipwreck (Nov 9, 2005)

On the ships I crossed paths with, they were usually of the same origin as the other officers, but I noticed a fair amount of British R/Os on Greek-owned ships, Indians (usually Sikh) on HK and Greek-owned ships, Scandinavians on the ships of neighboring nations. Once met a female R/O from the Philippines on a ship from Taiwan.


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## sparks69 (Dec 18, 2005)

I was English when I started but after 20 years I was a bit of everything !
Wi Eye hinny & KLN to yo all


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## R651400 (Jun 18, 2005)

Niarchos was a big UK and Rep of Ireland RO employer. 
P D Marchessini ships were all Greek flag whence it was mandatory to employ Greek ROs. 
PD would have nothing to do with them (another story) and on one ship Euryalus the RO was apparently a physically handicapped American who through this disability was unable to find US flag employ.


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## Engine Serang (Oct 15, 2012)

They were all Micks.


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## duncs (Sep 8, 2008)

Engine Serang said:


> They were all Micks.


I don't understand that. Can you explain?

An ex RO


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## phdad (Sep 5, 2019)

"mick" was a slang (sometimes derogatory) term for an Irishman.


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## duncs (Sep 8, 2008)

Thanks Dr Jim.
I've been around for a good many years, but have never heard that applied to an Irishman. Paddy, yes, but never Mick!

Just as an aside. I was on a ship and the 3E(Scottish) called me Paddy. I asked him why. Because you're Irish and you're a sparky.
I said I was from the Outer Hebrides.
Reply, that's what I said, you're Irish.

As he was Scottish, I didn't try to explain.


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## phdad (Sep 5, 2019)

As I was told by my grandfather it originated in Ellis Island when Irish immigrated to the US. The border control officers would look at the name on the papers (usually Mc Nally, or Mc Kennedy) see the Mc and say out loud "we got another mick here."


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## holland25 (Nov 21, 2007)

duncs said:


> Thanks Dr Jim.
> I've been around for a good many years, but have never heard that applied to an Irishman. Paddy, yes, but never Mick!
> 
> Just as an aside. I was on a ship and the 3E(Scottish) called me Paddy. I asked him why. Because you're Irish and you're a sparky.
> ...


It seems to be fairly common usage if it is somewhat non PC.


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## Pilot mac (Jun 28, 2005)

duncs said:


> Thanks Dr Jim.
> I've been around for a good many years, but have never heard that applied to an Irishman. Paddy, yes, but never Mick!
> 
> Just as an aside. I was on a ship and the 3E(Scottish) called me Paddy. I asked him why. Because you're Irish and you're a sparky.
> ...


Could he have been an East Coast Chinaman?


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## Engine Serang (Oct 15, 2012)

holland25 said:


> It seems to be fairly common usage if it is somewhat non PC.


Totally non PC but as I is one I feel free to bandy the term about with gay abandon.

Paddy and Mick are interchangeable as dozens of Irish Jokes refer to.
The Irish Guards are fondly known as the Micks as is the Scots Guards known as the Jocks.

But back to reality, in 10 years sailing with Marconi Men 80 to 90% of them were from southern Ireland and strangely none were from Scotland.


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## holland25 (Nov 21, 2007)

My first boss was a Southern Irishman with the name of Sullivan.He lived in Southport. He was a kindly but firm, old gentleman, who didn't have a long retirement. I also had one in the RFA he was from Cork,I was bit older than him, due to my late return to sea. He went home on leave and didn't come back, we thought he had a nervous breakdown. I also sailed with a welshman,who I still get a Christmas card from,but as you say, I cant recall any scotsmen.


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## duncs (Sep 8, 2008)

Before I went to sea, I worked on a building site in Glasgow(I was 16 at the time).
Working beside me was, to me elderly, an Irish guy.
He asked me where I was from. I said the West coast. Yes he said, I thought from your accent, you were from Donegal.
That explains it all.

No wonder an East coast Chinaman could mistake me for being Irish!


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## Larry Bennett (Aug 28, 2005)

Plenty of Scots and Irish at GKA. In fact at one time the overseer's "Wendy House" was known as "Ireland" due to the number of Irish managers. Quite a few Welsh amongst the staff too.

Other nationalities at the station included Canadian, Cypriot, a couple from Jersey and a couple from Mauritius. Think there were some 'dual nationality' staff too.

If the mood takes me I might go through our staff lists to find exact numbers.


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## King Ratt (Aug 23, 2005)

My first boss in RFA in 1963 was a most likeable Southern Irishman. Poor fellow did not get much of a retirement. He didn’t even manage to make it home when he paid off his final ship. RIP Noel.


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## beedeesea (Feb 28, 2006)

phdad said:


> As I was told by my grandfather it originated in Ellis Island when Irish immigrated to the US. The border control officers would look at the name on the papers (usually Mc Nally, or Mc Kennedy) see the Mc and say out loud "we got another mick here."


Yep, "Micks" would tend to be more closely associated with the US.

Brian


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## beedeesea (Feb 28, 2006)

holland25 said:


> My first boss was a Southern Irishman with the name of Sullivan.He lived in Southport. He was a kindly but firm, old gentleman, who didn't have a long retirement. I also had one in the RFA he was from Cork,I was bit older than him, due to my late return to sea. He went home on leave and didn't come back, we thought he had a nervous breakdown. I also sailed with a welshman,who I still get a Christmas card from,but as you say, I cant recall any scotsmen.


You've just reminded me; I once met an RO who was home on leave in West Cork. His name was Dick Organ.

Brian


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## Varley (Oct 1, 2006)

Engine Serang said:


> Totally non PC but as I is one I feel free to bandy the term about with gay abandon.
> 
> Paddy and Mick are interchangeable as dozens of Irish Jokes refer to.
> The Irish Guards are fondly known as the Micks as is the Scots Guards known as the Jocks.
> ...


Wiley Scots know to avoid when there's a wrong'un signed-on below.


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## gordonarfur (May 27, 2018)

Mainly Micks and Jocks with Macs but very few with direct employ firms.


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## Zl2axh (Oct 2, 2016)

beedeesea said:


> Yep, "Micks" would tend to be more closely associated with the US.
> 
> Brian


Most places I've been used the term "Mick" in the descriptive sense (He's a Mick) but Paddy as an individual (How are you Paddy).

Every ship I sailed on had a Scottish R.O


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## reefrat (Nov 4, 2007)

Mick = Irish catholic


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## noelmavisk (Oct 14, 2012)

sparks69 said:


> I was English when I started but after 20 years I was a bit of everything !
> Wi Eye hinny & KLN to yo all


*To come up with 'Why aye hinny' yer either a Geordie or ye've met some.*


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## phdad (Sep 5, 2019)

So, what then is a Northern Irish Protestant called then?


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## Zl2axh (Oct 2, 2016)

reefrat said:


> Mick = Irish catholic


That's True


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## Zl2axh (Oct 2, 2016)

phdad said:


> So, what then is a Northern Irish Protestant called then?


Proddy - Although I have only ever heard it used by Irish Catholics, and it is derogatory.


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## reefrat (Nov 4, 2007)

phdad said:


> So, what then is a Northern Irish Protestant called then?


Depends who is talking I worked with both groups and the words Orange and B*stards were used by one Group and Fenian pape B*stards the other,, Left footer was mentioned but as an ignorant Oz didn't understand that one


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## Stephen J. Card (Nov 5, 2006)

Scots are 'Black Irish'. My dad used the term and it was meant in a friendly way.


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## duncs (Sep 8, 2008)

reefrat said:


> Left footer was mentioned but as an ignorant Oz didn't understand that one


Me too, also! I've heard it used many times, but haven't a clue what it means.
A left handed sparks, perhaps?

Maybe one of our more erudite members could explain.


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## Stephen J. Card (Nov 5, 2006)

Easy one... Left Footed = Catholic.


'Left Footer' is a derogatory term, applied to Roman Catholics, which has military, rather than argricultural, origins. The phrase evolved during the time when the protestant militia, the Ulster Volunteer Force, was in the process of being absorbed into the regular British Army in readiness for the first war.'


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## duncs (Sep 8, 2008)

OK, that's fine Stephen. But, why 'left foot'? What do's it mean?
Is it a marching order, perhaps? One side left foot forward, other side right foot forward?


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## Scotch Boiler (Sep 18, 2011)

duncs said:


> I don't understand that. Can you explain?
> 
> An ex RO



If he had said that they were all Jocks, would you have understood?


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## Zl2axh (Oct 2, 2016)

duncs said:


> OK, that's fine Stephen. But, why 'left foot'? What do's it mean?
> Is it a marching order, perhaps? One side left foot forward, other side right foot forward?


That's one theory, but another is because the Irish spade, the loy, had a foot rest on one side only, the left side. Another is that the catholics genuflect with the left foot forward.
Probably it is just a term that means 'not like us' as in the term 'kicks with the left foot' or more modern a left-footer is slang for a gay male.


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## spongebob (Dec 11, 2007)

Zl2axh said:


> That's one theory, but another is because the Irish spade, the loy, had a foot rest on one side only, the left side. Another is that the catholics genuflect with the left foot forward.
> Probably it is just a term that means 'not like us' as in the term 'kicks with the left foot' or more modern a left-footer is slang for a gay male.


My spade has the foot rest on the right side but I genuflect with my left foot forward too. What does that make me, a confused Protestant ?

Bob


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## duncs (Sep 8, 2008)

spongebob said:


> My spade has the foot rest on the right side but I genuflect with my left foot forward too. What does that make me, a confused Protestant ?
> 
> Bob



Probably, an atheist, Bob!

(Applause)

(Smoke)


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## orcadiankiwi (Feb 25, 2014)

*Phdad*

Hello PHDAD,

Ethnicity of RO's. I knew a great many ROs from Southern Ireland. A possible connection is that I went to Colwyn Bay Wireless College, (1950 at Age 16, followed at South Shields for Radar Maintenance), which is not too far from Holyhead and the Ferry to Dublin. I heard from several of them that their employment opportunities were, very often, a choice between the United States, the British Army and the British Merchant Navy! (With the MN very often winning!)
Myself: Scot, or perhaps more correctly an Orcadian. Spent six years with Siemens Brothers and two and a half with Union Steamship Company in New Zealand before "Swallowing the Pick" with a NZ Girl.
Any more Orcadian ROs out there?
Thomas Firth, (AKA Tommy, Tom or Tony)


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## Quinny41 (Apr 12, 2005)

*P D Marchessini*



R651400 said:


> Niarchos was a big UK and Rep of Ireland RO employer.
> P D Marchessini ships were all Greek flag whence it was mandatory to employ Greek ROs.
> PD would have nothing to do with them (another story) and on one ship Euryalus the RO was apparently a physically handicapped American who through this disability was unable to find US flag employ.


I am Irish and was employed by PD Marchessini (Excellent Employer) as RO on the Euryalus from October 1965 until December 1966. My friend was also employed as RO on the Eurymedon over approximately the same period so the employment restrictions must have been imposed at an earlier date as we were both approached at later dates by the then Director Mr Pockett offering further employment. Brian Quinn.


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## Liam Moran (May 3, 2012)

Was RO 1953 to 1962.First with Marconi coming from Dublin.Them Saguenay Terminals,Montreal followed by Miarchos serving on Princess Sophie/SWIE and finally Marchessini on "Euryalus"/SXZK.After disagreement with Captain re salary and very poor food walked off vessel in Long Beach,Ca.giving London office adequate notice.Replaced by young American who was physically handicapped.This was September 1962.


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## duncs (Sep 8, 2008)

Scotch Boiler said:


> If he had said that they were all Jocks, would you have understood?


Another one I can't understand. Is it old age?

Is that not an American term(Jocks).


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## Zl2axh (Oct 2, 2016)

duncs said:


> Another one I can't understand. Is it old age?
> 
> Is that not an American term(Jocks).


The American tern 'Jocks' is short for 'Jockstrap' and is referring to sportsmen.
The Scottish term "Jock' is a local variation of John.


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## tunatownshipwreck (Nov 9, 2005)

Zl2axh said:


> The American tern 'Jocks' is short for 'Jockstrap' and is referring to sportsmen.
> The Scottish term "Jock' is a local variation of John.


True, but also in the past, and hardly used now, "jocks" was used at US radio stations for disc jockeys.


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## spongebob (Dec 11, 2007)

Jocks in NZ is the universal term for men's underpants whether made under the Jockey label or any other.


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## spaarks (May 1, 2009)

beedeesea said:


> Yep, "Micks" would tend to be more closely associated with the US.
> 
> Brian


No, it is closely associated with Ireland, the North in particular, where the term "Mick" is considered a highly pejorative term. In GB as well. I wouldn't recommend using it.


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## R651400 (Jun 18, 2005)

Quinny41 said:


> I am Irish and was employed by PD Marchessini (Excellent Employer) as RO on the Euryalus from October 1965 until December 1966. ....


Was on Eurylochus./SWBF 60/61 and owner P D Marchessini was a regular visitor when alongside at Newark NJ. L E Pockett London office a true gentleman who offered me my old ship back in 1965. Was sorely tempted but memsahib and first born daughter had other ideas.


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## R651400 (Jun 18, 2005)

Liam Moran said:


> ....Replaced by young American who was physically handicapped.This was September 1962.


Wasn't too sure of my #4 facts on this as I only met the lad on the daily HF sched and if I recall correctly he was very proficient on the key..
Should Saguenay to Niarchos not have been the other way round?


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## duncs (Sep 8, 2008)

Zl2axh said:


> The American tern 'Jocks' is short for 'Jockstrap' and is referring to sportsmen.
> The Scottish term "Jock' is a local variation of John.


Here, the term for John is Iain, or more familiar, Iagan.

Maybe, Jock is the Scots, Anglified, term for Iagan?


Iagan is pronounced like eye can.


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## phdad (Sep 5, 2019)

Left footer because Catholics place the left foot and kneel on the right nee before the alter.


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## Liam Moran (May 3, 2012)

Saguenay in early 1959 had to lay up most of their ships because of the world shipping slump.They had committed to so many long-term charters that they had to shoot their own!!!.A number of them,including mine,ss "Sunwhit" ended up in Hoellen,Norway. Hence the reason for Saguenay to Niarchos!.


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## Mad Landsman (Dec 1, 2005)

duncs said:


> OK, that's fine Stephen. But, why 'left foot'? What do's it mean?
> Is it a marching order, perhaps? One side left foot forward, other side right foot forward?


Not marching for sure - When you learn to march you first learn to lead off with the left foot. 
Exceptions include coffin bearers where the right side bearers lead with the right foot.


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## duncs (Sep 8, 2008)

I think phdad's explanation is the more likely.
Although a right footer will probably kneel left knee down.
Mind you, when you see, on TV, the luvvies getting a knighthood, it's their starboard knee on the deck. So maybe they're all left footers.


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## duncs (Sep 8, 2008)

Going back to ROs ethnicity. Jim Fitzgerald, from Cork, was CRO. I had just joi Muned as 2RO. I did the night watch. Arrived Bombay. He put me on the shake, in the morning, said it was Sunday, there was a Mass on in the 2nd class dining saloon, for the Goanese catering staff. Get showered and get clean whites on. In a bit of a daze, I did that. I muttered a bit, ie, how did he know I was a Catholic. He was elderly and probably knew, that coming from Barra, he guessed it.
But, worse was to come. I'd had my early morning beers/rum prior to going to my bunk, so was still drowsy, dazy.
I was showered, in clean whites, and attended.
At the end of the Mass, a collection plate was passed round.
I hadn't thought of it, I hadn't a ****** in my pocket.
Embarassment? 
That was a bad one!


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## duncs (Sep 8, 2008)

Going back to ROs ethnicity. Jim Fitzgerald, from Cork, was CRO. I had just joi Muned as 2RO. I did the night watch. Arrived Bombay. He put me on the shake, in the morning, said it was Sunday, there was a Mass on in the 2nd class dining saloon, for the Goanese catering staff. Get showered and get clean whites on. In a bit of a daze, I did that. I muttered a bit, ie, how did he know I was a Catholic. He was elderly and probably knew, that coming from Barra, he guessed it.
But, worse was to come. I'd had my early morning beers/rum prior to going to my bunk, so was still drowsy, dazy.
I was showered, in clean whites, and attended.
At the end of the Mass, a collection plate was passed round.
I hadn't thought of it, I hadn't a ****** in my pocket.
Embarassment? 
That was a bad one!


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## duncs (Sep 8, 2008)

I don't know why my post was repeated!


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## Stephen J. Card (Nov 5, 2006)

duncs said:


> At the end of the Mass, a collection plate was passed round.
> I hadn't thought of it, I hadn't a ****** in my pocket.
> Embarassment?
> That was a bad one!




shilling? sixpence? thruppence? penny? farthing? RUPPEE!!!!


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## duncs (Sep 8, 2008)

Not even a Paise!

Mind you, later, I gave the Steward a few Rupees.


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## Zl2axh (Oct 2, 2016)

duncs said:


> Here, the term for John is Iain, or more familiar, Iagan.
> 
> Maybe, Jock is the Scots, Anglified, term for Iagan?
> 
> ...


Not sure where 'here' is Duncs, but certainly Ian , Iain or Sean are accepted variants of John of biblical origins, as are Jan, Jean and Johan (as well as others).

Jock is used extensively in the SE of Scotland, and is equivalent to the English Jack.

Iagan (for those with Arial text, note that the first character is a capital (i for India, not (L for Lima), is not the same source as John.

In SE Scotland Jock is just a name like Jack, Bill, Jim that originate as a 'junior' form to differentiate between father and son but became generic alternatives. Jock as a 'group' label probably originated in the military because John was considered a bit formal (poncy!) and spread to the colonies.


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## duncs (Sep 8, 2008)

Sorry Zl, I should have said that these names were Gaelic. Iagan is just a more familiar name(Gaelic), for Iain. Same same Jan etc.
You could have the same name in the family. EG: Iagan ruadh(brown John), Iain dubh(black John), brothers.
In Gaelic 'the' was often attached. Hence, The Donald.


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## Scotch Boiler (Sep 18, 2011)

And on a quiet day with time on my hands......the Union Steamship Coy of NZ was "down at the head" with Canadian sparkies in the 60's.


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## Zl2axh (Oct 2, 2016)

No Problems Duncs, I understood them to be Gaelic. And if in your area they are used as familiar names for Ian, can't argue with that.

John and its variants have religious derivation, through Johannes (Iohannes - greek for God)
However, Iagan (also Egan) is a diminutive of Aodhagán which is of Celtic origin with no religious history but is related to Aodh which means fire, typical of the Celtic Nordic origins for names.


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## Scotch Boiler (Sep 18, 2011)

Going off topic Duncs, I have never known a Highlander or Islander well enough to ask this question. The nick name for someone from the north west of Scotland is Teuchter or choochter. Is that a perjorative or derogatory term? Would you be offended by that description or is it like Jock,Mick, or Paddy?


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## Engine Serang (Oct 15, 2012)

duncs said:


> I muttered a bit, ie, how did he know I was a Catholic. He was elderly and probably knew, that coming from Barra, he guessed it.


He didn't know what religion you were but felt a bit of it would do you no harm. A wise man indeed.


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## Varley (Oct 1, 2006)

Ethnic? I wasn't when I last looked.


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## Engine Serang (Oct 15, 2012)

I regard IOM as a cooler version of Malta or Cyprus. Of course you're ethnic, pay UK income tax if you want to come into the fold. And I don't want to listen to any twaddle about Passports, or their colour. QED.


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## Varley (Oct 1, 2006)

That's the pot calling the kettle green.


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## Stephen J. Card (Nov 5, 2006)

Engine Serang said:


> He didn't know what religion you were but felt a bit of it would do you no harm. A wise man indeed.


Amen!


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## Ternahan (Feb 14, 2016)

We had 2 radio schools in Belfast - so a reasonable contribution to the stats. My sac 1960 - 64


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## Zl2axh (Oct 2, 2016)

Varley said:


> Ethnic? I wasn't when I last looked.


Sorry Varley, you look as ethic as they come


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## Engine Serang (Oct 15, 2012)

Ternahan said:


> We had 2 radio schools in Belfast - so a reasonable contribution to the stats. My sac 1960 - 64


Only 2?
None for Jews or Blacks?
(Cloud)


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## Varley (Oct 1, 2006)

No, there is no need as they use a right handed key too.

(Z12... I am cut to the quick!)


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## duncs (Sep 8, 2008)

Scotch Boiler said:


> Going off topic Duncs, I have never known a Highlander or Islander well enough to ask this question. The nick name for someone from the north west of Scotland is Teuchter or choochter. Is that a perjorative or derogatory term? Would you be offended by that description or is it like Jock,Mick, or Paddy?


Sorry for the delay in replying Gordon, I was hors de combat for a few days. I wrote a reply last night, but when posting, it went dud, with the usual Korean sh1t coming up. P1ssed me off. I'll try again, FYI.

As far as I am aware, teuchter is Scots for coward, so is a derogatory term, used by lowlanders, against the Highlander/Islemen. I think maybe after the 45.
When I first went to the mainland, I was called that, but I took no offence, they didn't know the significance of it.
It's the same as the Scots think Sassenach is a derogatory term for an English person. It's not, it's the gaelic for someone from England.

Rgds Duncs


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## Zl2axh (Oct 2, 2016)

As a lowland Scot I, and those I knew, used the term teuchter in much the same way that the English used the term 'bumpkin'. So, somewhat derogatory. My mother used it for catholics. I had an aunt who affectionately called me 'a wee teuchter'. No sense of it being used as 'coward' but i can imagine that someone may use the term for someone who was cowardly. Retrospectively, I understand the origin was used to mean Gaelic speakers.


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## gordonarfur (May 27, 2018)

Scotch Boiler said:


> And on a quiet day with time on my hands......the Union Steamship Coy of NZ was "down at the head" with Canadian sparkies in the 60's.



the unions in Canada eliminated their MN rather like the Brits, Kiwis and Ozzies a little later that is the reason why they joined USS. Don,t know where they got their tickets but their knowledge of the Dominion radio HF system was non existent and their morse was,nt much better.


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## Scotch Boiler (Sep 18, 2011)

duncs said:


> Sorry for the delay in replying Gordon, I was hors de combat for a few days. I wrote a reply last night, but when posting, it went dud, with the usual Korean sh1t coming up. P1ssed me off. I'll try again, FYI.
> 
> As far as I am aware, teuchter is Scots for coward, so is a derogatory term, used by lowlanders, against the Highlander/Islemen. I think maybe after the 45.
> When I first went to the mainland, I was called that, but I took no offence, they didn't know the significance of it.
> ...


Thanks Duncs, I think that as in any vernacular term a lot depends on the tone of voice of the speaker. An otherwise common insult can be made to sound endearing or affectionate among friends with the right emphasis and tone of voice. I had a couple of uncles{now deceased} who came from Barra.


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## duncs (Sep 8, 2008)

Zl2, I can't argue against any of your theories. Until I went to school on the mainland, I had never heard the term. It was an older boy who explained it to me. So maybe he just made it up. I don't think so, but, what the Hell, no offence was taken.


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## duncs (Sep 8, 2008)

Scotch Boiler said:


> Thanks Duncs, I think that as in any vernacular term a lot depends on the tone of voice of the speaker. An otherwise common insult can be made to sound endearing or affectionate among friends with the right emphasis and tone of voice. I had a couple of uncles{now deceased} who came from Barra.


I agree Gordon.
Re uncles, any names or patronymics that I might recognise?

Duncs


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## phdad (Sep 5, 2019)

I do not want to start a turf war, but there seems to be a suggestion that Canadian sparks (at least in the 1960s) were not as well trained and had somewhat lessened operating skills. 1. Do others think that way? and 2. What country is believed to have had the best radio schools and thus graduated the best trained the radio officers?


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## Ron Stringer (Mar 15, 2005)

Impossible. There is no way that you could make any general assessment. Which aspects of the job would you compare? Morse communication, equipment maintenance and repair, etc., etc.?

The job descriptions differed widely between employing companies, let alone countries. Who would will be familiar with the different practices in the various countries, the different performance of each of the R/Os in any one country?

No such person exists.


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## Troppo (Feb 18, 2010)

I am happy to stand up and say that the UK training was probably the best of the Commonwealth countries...

It was certainly better than Australia.


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## sparks69 (Dec 18, 2005)

Six of one and half a dozen of the other IMHO
There were quite a few who sent with their feet regardless of nationality !
Even a few Coast Stations too.
Made life interesting.


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## Dimples82 (Aug 24, 2014)

Yes, I can remember known and worki


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## gordonarfur (May 27, 2018)

The two canadian guys I heard during my time in USS Co did,nt seem to know much about operating systems and they almost always seemed to prefer R/T over morse. having said that they may have been red hot technical guys which for the crap gear of the USS Co would have been a great asset.


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## Zl2axh (Oct 2, 2016)

Troppo said:


> I am happy to stand up and say that the UK training was probably the best of the Commonwealth countries...
> 
> It was certainly better than Australia.


When I sat my 1st class PMG in '58 the examiner was an ex r/o just come ashore. There were four of us, three had gone through from the start straight on from passing 2nd class and one who had been at sea and come back to get 1st. After the morse test the experienced guy said 'great stuff, good commercial code.' The other three of us just looked at each other in astonishment. We had hardly copied anything.
After the examiner left we asked the other guy 'did you copy all that?'
"Well, I got the gist and could guess most of the words."
"How about the five character code section?" I asked.
What five character code section he asked?"
We all failed.
They brought in another examiner and we all passed.
When I shipped out I found that the first examiner was in no way unique. Maybe that's the test we should have passed(LOL)


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## trotterdotpom (Apr 29, 2005)

#82 . Where did you sit that? In the UK the last 1st Class PMGs were done in about 1972, replaced by the General Cert. I took 1st Class and the examiner told me it would be the last one ever issued but I've since found out that there was at least one more after mine.

John T


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## Zl2axh (Oct 2, 2016)

trotterdotpom said:


> #82 . Where did you sit that? In the UK the last 1st Class PMGs were done in about 1972, replaced by the General Cert. I took 1st Class and the examiner told me it would be the last one ever issued but I've since found out that there was at least one more after mine.
> 
> John T


I can't type!! Have edited the entry. Sat at Leith Nautical College. 2nd class, 1st class and MoT radar all in one string. Finished MoT early 59.


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## trotterdotpom (Apr 29, 2005)

Zl2axh said:


> I can't type!! Have edited the entry. Sat at Leith Nautical College. 2nd class, 1st class and MoT radar all in one string. Finished MoT early 59.


Thanks for that Z12 - thought something must have gone wrong there. I can't find my 1st Class, could have been 1971.

By the way, your mate's way of copying morse by guessing the words sounds fraught with danger!

Hope all's well across the Ditch.

John T


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## Zl2axh (Oct 2, 2016)

Spoke to guy on this site I think who went to sea after PMG days. He said he could not read morse live and had to tape it and play it back

In serious lockdown over here. Have not been off the property for 25 days. Hoping that things are going to free up a little soon.


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## trotterdotpom (Apr 29, 2005)

Zl2axh said:


> Spoke to guy on this site I think who went to sea after PMG days. He said he could not read morse live and had to tape it and play it back
> 
> In serious lockdown over here. Have not been off the property for 25 days. Hoping that things are going to free up a little soon.


That must have made for some long days for him!

More or less the same over here, staying inside. Some bloke in Perth was doing 14 days isolation in a hotel and sneaked out to see his girlfriend. Could have been a case of sexually transmitted virus. He got a month in gaol for that. I bet he wishes he was still doing the 14 days, smashing the minibar!

John T


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## R651400 (Jun 18, 2005)

Zl2axh said:


> ......I found that the first examiner was in no way unique...


 Interesting account for its time Z12. 
I took my 2nd Class PMG at LNC in '56 and no doubt your morse instrucfor would have been the flamboyant Ted Whitehead. 
Most PMG examiners of the time were old hands with their individual style of morse though your man does sound aan exception for its poor quality.


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## Zl2axh (Oct 2, 2016)

R651400 said:


> Interesting account for its time Z12.
> I took my 2nd Class PMG at LNC in '56 and no doubt your morse instrucfor would have been the flamboyant Ted Whitehead.
> Most PMG examiners of the time were old hands with their individual style of morse though your man does sound aan exception for its poor quality.


Ted Whitehead it was. Crisp clear code. Our problem may have been that Ted's code was so crisp.


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## R651400 (Jun 18, 2005)

Indeed. Ted joined towards the end of '55 or beginning of '[56 and knew how to handle a morse key as did Fred Boetcher before who would have taken you for practical. Happy memories with a happier conclusion.


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## expats (Mar 9, 2013)

I took mine at 'Soton..Moody?'s morse was tthe best I heard afloat or ashore


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## Dimples82 (Aug 24, 2014)

*R/O's countries of origin*



Dimples82 said:


> Yes, I can remember known and worki


Sorry about that, computer/finger trouble. I have worked with R/O's from different countries, England, Wale, Scotland, Ireland, Canada, South Africa, Sweden Germany, Malaya, Indonesia, Singapore Saudi Arabia Oman, Japan, et. All. . . . . and many more, I think what it boiled down to was that if a country needed an R/O to continue trade/commerce over the sea and in the air, people were trained to do the job.


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## sparkie2182 (May 12, 2007)

I long since lost count of the number of overseas R/O's who complimented Portishead Radio and UK MF Coast Station operators when the topic arose over a beer.


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## King Ratt (Aug 23, 2005)

R651400 said:


> Indeed. Ted joined towards the end of '55 or beginning of '[56 and knew how to handle a morse key as did Fred Boetcher before who would have taken you for practical. Happy memories with a happier conclusion.



Ted always used the ship name Clan McIver when we were doing commercial working at LNC. Only once had Butch when Ted was ill.Butch ran a tight ship. I liked his practical classes. I also liked old Harry Watson in theory class, a man with a real dry sense of humour.


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## Zl2axh (Oct 2, 2016)

King Ratt said:


> Ted always used the ship name Clan McIver when we were doing commercial working at LNC. Only once had Butch when Ted was ill.Butch ran a tight ship. I liked his practical classes. I also liked old Harry Watson in theory class, a man with a real dry sense of humour.


I was trying to remember the name of the third tutor who took the MoT Radar class. Probably was Harry if he was the senior tutor. On our first day in radar he was explaining the antique unit they had. It was powered off and he opened a little hatch on the front pointed at the (Klystron, Magnetron, can't remember which) and said never touch this, it has 33,000 volts and he touched it. After we picked him up from the far wall and he got his breath back he said "even when it is powered off it may have a huge capacitive charge".


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## R651400 (Jun 18, 2005)

Certainly sounds Harry and not his 55/56 predecessor "Mr Radar" himself Andrew Bogie.


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## King Ratt (Aug 23, 2005)

Good photo. Butch first on the left and Bogie fourth. Andrew Bogie was my radar lecturer in 1963. A clever fellow for certain as was Boettcher.


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## Zl2axh (Oct 2, 2016)

R651400 said:


> Certainly sounds Harry and not his 55/56 predecessor "Mr Radar" himself Andrew Bogie.


It was Andrew Bogie.


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## Loptap (May 2, 2016)

Zl2axh said:


> As a lowland Scot I, and those I knew, used the term teuchter in much the same way that the English used the term 'bumpkin'.


Bells ring! But I don't know why!
I am English, neo-Geordie, but, after getting married, I lived in Scotland (Gourock) for six years, and my best friend during our college years was from Orkney via Aberdeen. At some point in my life, "teuchter" has been part of my vocabulary - more specifically (I think) "highland teuchter" - but I have no idea when or why! I do not believe it was for pejorative or discriminatory use - but who knows?

Memory going - sad innit!

https://www.shipsnostalgia.com/images/smilies/confused.gif


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## hawkey01 (Mar 15, 2006)

Sparkie2182,

In my years at GKA and on the coast there were only 5 RO's who were from overseas - with PMG - 1 Cypriot, 2 from the Indian sub continent, one from West Africa, one Mauritian.

Neville - Hawkey01


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## R651400 (Jun 18, 2005)

King Ratt said:


> Good photo. Butch first on the left and Bogie fourth. Andrew Bogie was my radar lecturer in 1963. A clever fellow for certain as was Boettcher.


 Ted Whitehead is in there as well.


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## King Ratt (Aug 23, 2005)

R651400 said:


> Ted Whitehead is in there as well.



Which one is Ted?


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## Zl2axh (Oct 2, 2016)

R651400 said:


> Certainly sounds Harry and not his 55/56 predecessor "Mr Radar" himself Andrew Bogie.


What is the occassion for the photo?


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## R651400 (Jun 18, 2005)

Ted Whitehead middle 2nd left behind Fred Boettcher and Harry Watson same row 4th left behind Andrew Bogie. 
The photo occasion not sure but it was part of a recently past LNC reunion announcement *here*


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## King Ratt (Aug 23, 2005)

R651400 said:


> Ted Whitehead middle 2nd left behind Fred Boettcher and Harry Watson same row 4th left behind Andrew Bogie.
> The photo occasion not sure but it was part of a recently past LNC reunion announcement *here*


Thanks for that. I did not recognise them. I had a few pints with Ted after I returned from my very long first trip. He was partial to Bass. Sadly crossed the bar far too early. I think Ted was a widower but he had a daughter I met briefly during one of my pub visits with Ted.


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## Peter Curwell (Mar 7, 2014)

*ethnic background of r/o's?*

late response. i had a little knowledge from the period 1970 to 80.
From a check of a few thousand r/o's on UK flag ships only, I did work out that about 25% were from Eire, but of course many Eire r/o's on ferries etc lived in the UK, so they are not included.
I think (I can say it now) from a sample on the REOU executive also about 25% plus secretary were originally from Eire. But didn't matter as never had any problems caused by that.
The only "trouble" was during a meeting with about 60 R/O's in Dublin when a robust and interesting meeting took place. The trouble was at the end I was bought about 30 whiskies and 30 pints of guiness and said I said to drink that or they would be upset. As a pom (then) I did my best but said I couldn't manage and they would have to help me, which was thought to be a good idea. It took me about 2 days to recover. Great night. They really were the days.


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## Engine Serang (Oct 15, 2012)

Its alright Peter, if I drank 30 pints and 30 whiskies I would still be trying to shake the hangover off.

We still have some great pubs in Dublin, but none of them are open! Come PV (post virus) I'm going to fill my boots. Cheers.


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