# Stavros S Niarchos or Prince William to be sold.



## Pete Legg

I received word today, that the Tall ships Youth Trust is proposing to sell one of its Brigs, iether the Stavros S Niarchos or the Prince William. This is to enable the Trust to settle its debts and also to purchase 4, 22 Metre Ocean going yachts. These 4 yachts were originally built for Chay Blythe's round the world Challenge races, and will accomodate up to 18 crew, which will consist of 12 Voyage crew, and 6 experienced crew (Skipper,Mate,Cook,Maintainer & 2 Watch Leaders). The Challenger yachts lend themselves to sail training and offer new and different opportunities for young people. For example: Voyages dedicated to specific schools/Youth groups. New sail training opportunities and activiies for young people, and Sail training opportunities for young poeple who prefer smaller settings.

Pete


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## Tony Breach

Thanks for that Pete.

Personally I would hate for the brigs to go. (I love the rig of a brig or snow - they are 'pretty' ships). I spent many happy hours just watching the PILGRIM replica at Dana Point & the beautiful LADY WASHINGTON up & down the USWC.

My own feeling is that every kid should be given a Mirror dinghy before puberty & taught the basics & dangers at an early age. They could then qualify & go on to better things.

The epitome of youngster boatmanship is the Atlantic Challenge & I bow to the performance of those skilled youngsters who participate. It is a crying shame that so few people know about. I wear their badge with pride!

Tony


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## Santos

Been on Stavros S Niarchos and sailed on Prince William, a great and once in a lifetime experience. It will be a sad day if one of them has to go.

Stavros is the older one in service only by 12 months, Prince William has slightly different accomodation for the volunteer crew but otherwise both pretty identical and lovely ships, so I guess it will be a difficult choice which one has to go.

I am miffed and feel that this is another nail in the coffin of sailing ships and British maritime history, in favour of modern yachts and yachting by default. I agree that there is skill in yachting but there is an even greater skill and sense of being part of a team, being a crew member of a square rigger and it promotes maritime history, knowledge and pride in ones ability and pride in ones self. How many people can say they climbed the masts, stepped out onto the yards and set the sails of a square rigger, not many I'll be bound, even less in the future, if one of these lovely Brigs has to go.

Money again has proved the undoing of another great idea - where is this countries pride in its maritime history - isnt it about time some help was given on a government basis to Trusts like this, rather than fund inane ideas and projects which put money in the pockets of those already well off and succour the so called minority groups and those that should not legally be in our country. It seems to me skilled tall ship sailors are now in a minority group and will soon cease to exist if ideas like the Trust are scuppered through lack of funds.

Many other maritime countries have sail training ships, countries much poorer than Britain, but here we are, the British, once one of the greatest ever maritime nations of the world,and all it would appear, we are going to have, are modern yachts - what a sad country we are becoming - and whose fault is it. I will tell you whose fault it is, PROPERTY DEVELOPERS who are laughing all the way to the Bank as they fill in docks and try to obliterate anything maritime, and a GOVERNMENT, who couldnt give a toss about maritime matters anyway, or for that matter British maritime history, or in fact any British history and traditions as a whole, thats who.

Chris. (Cloud)


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## Degzie

I see that the Prince William has been sold to the Pakistan Navy and has been renamed PNS RAH NAWARD in late September 2010. She is at present moored in Breast on route to Pakistan,
regards Degzie


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## Dickyboy

That's a crying shame. I used to see one or the other, or both tied up in Gunwharf Quays Portsmouth, and occasionally saw them under sail in the Solent.
Very small compared with some of the sail training ships seen in Portsmouth over the years. I'm not knocking the trust that owned and run them, but I reckon such vessels should be owned and operated by the nation, and not by a charity.
I recall a big Russian tall ship came in 5 or 10 years ago. They were skint, and the Tall ships fraternity had a whip round, gave the crew runs ashore, and did other charitable things for her, yet when it comes to small Brit training ships, they just sell it off.
I don't think it's the ship as such that's important, it's the character building of our youth that's so important.
What a country we live in!


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## Bob S

I saw her in Hull the day she raised the Pakistan flag

Couple of photos of her 

http://www.shipspotting.com/modules/myalbum/photo.php?lid=1185203

http://www.shipspotting.com/modules/myalbum/photo.php?lid=1186175

Regards

Bob


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## Shibby

I sailed on the Prince William and effectively that was what made me join the merchant navy. It was an amasing experience and it is sad to see either of them go.


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## McCloggie

My initial thoughts on reading this were that it is sad, and then I asked myself how the old STA manage to run the Winston Churchill and Malcolm Miller for so many years?

On reflection, it is till sad but when yu think about it when the STA started out they were almost the only people offering Tall Ships experience in the UK. There were opportunities for people to sail with the Norwegian and other ships but basically, the STA was the only organisation in the UK. Over the years however, there have been more and more groups offering Tall Ships (I use the words carefully as this seems now to include ocean yachts) experience. The one that springs to mind immediately is the Trust that takes disabled people to sea.

There is nothing wrong with this and indeed an industry has grown up supporting and manning these "Tall Ships" but there are undoubtably more sailing vessels taking various groups of people to sea for different sailing experiences than there were 20/30 years ago.

Consequently, sad though it is, if one of the bigger UK ships can not be supported it should not be too surprising. If however the concept is to go for smaller vessels that are more "inclusive" and othe such PC terms then the decision is wrong.

Being supported by the "Nation" is a different arguement. If the RN were to have sail training then the Nation would indeed pay for it and maybe civilians could utilise the ship as well but an RN ship would not support disabled persons. 

It is unlikely that the Merchant Navy companies will provide funds for MN sail training - why should they when there are enough private "Tall Ships" out there that people can choose to go own at their own expence. (See above posting).

There is a battle for heritage funding anyway for all organisations including sail training and if each organisation is separate they are going to split the toal pot for funding.

In the modern FPSO business, I work with many Eastern European marine officers and crew (and they are very good) and most of them have done some time on a major sail training ship.

Where did the UK go wrong?

McC


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## Degzie

In April of this year we took 40 14year old students from the secondary schools on the Wirral, for a six day trip on the Stavros S Niarchos. We took students of different back grounds and behavoural problems. We had no complaints from the students and they all enjoyed sailing on the English channel, the main thing was that the all the students learn't how to work as a team and they all grew in confidence. It was such a success that we hope to take another 40 next April.(of course pending on what funding we can get) From my own experiences as a teenager i sailed on the TS Royalist and the Winston Churchill and this certainly made me more confident. It is a shame that the Prince William has gone but I suppose it is the cost of running these Tallships!
Degzie


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## Pat Kennedy

My niece sailed on the Stavros when she was sixteen.
They flew out to Amsterdam to join her, then returned to Birkenhead via Hamburg, le Havre, and Cork.
She left as a rather shy and reserved girl who had never been out of her own country, and returned a confident and articulate young woman.
Ten years on she still talks of the trip as the turning point in her life.
She reckons she's climbed more masts than me, and she may be right!

Regards, 
Pat


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## Degzie

I see that the tallships Youth Trust now has the Stavros S Niarchos up for sale according to the Youth trust web site, In my earlier post i mentioned we took 40 secondary students on the Stavros S Niarchos, since that post last year In April 2011 we took another 40 more students from Swansea to Liverpool and again this year in April we will be doing the same from cardiff to Liverpool, as i said earlier it is a great experience for young people and I only hope the Stavros will be around next year (if funding available) so we can again take students for a life experience.
regards
Degzie


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## leepenghui

I have just been on a trip on the Stavros. She is above some sort of size limit and therefore has to pay the same harbour dues as a mega cruise ship. The plan is to sell her and replace her with a smaller vessel which will will cost a lot less in harbour. Depending on the outcome this may not be a bad thing especially if the new vessel can go to places where a bigger one could not.


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