# A Good Deal For Apprentices



## Nova Scotian (Jul 2, 2006)

In 1966 or 1967, new standards came into force for the pay scales and working and study hours for apprentices and cadets. I was an apprentice at the time and, if I remember correctly, our pay was increased by about 60%. Our working hours were better defined which had the effect of reducing them. Minimum study hours were also introduced.

Can anyone be more specific about the date/year, the particulars and what authority was responsible?

I can remember two afternoons a week being designated for study time. The Mate was a little unhappy with the new arrangement and thought the whole world had gone soft!

Cheers


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## cboots (Aug 16, 2004)

I signed my indentures in March 1965 and the pay was appalling. My memory fades but I am pretty certain we got a pay rise shortly after I joined. We did get quite a substantial payrise later on, '66 would be a good guess and payrates for apprentices, as for others, rose quite a bit.  As to the study time part of it, it made no difference to us whatsoever. Study time was something we grouched about at smokoe - we never got any.
CBoots


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## xrm (Oct 1, 2006)

I signed in mid 1967 - so the pay rise was after that - in the UK anyway - possibly 1969?. Study time - mmmmm. I was a Bank Line apprentice - one after noon per man per week perhaps as we used to say about almost everything. Still better than the world is today with all the bubble wrapped people in it ..... gap years .. bla bla .....


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## K urgess (Aug 14, 2006)

My copy of the National Maritime Board Summary of Agreements, is a bit late in date but the earliest reference for cadets is 1st May 1968 when they suddenly became eligible for North & Central America Coastal Trade Bonus which may indicate the date their conditions were improved.
Cadet's pay effective from June 1st, 1975, ranged from beginners under 17.5yrs old at £987.00pa to £1,888.20pa for cadets over 20yoa who had completed 4 years.
Cheers
Kris


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## Ian (Mar 27, 2004)

Marconi Sahib
You should have been at sea in the 50s, conditions were unheard of, specialy for Apps & Cadets.(Thumb)


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## methc (May 4, 2005)

*Lyle's cadets 1949-53*



Nova Scotian said:


> In 1966 or 1967, new standards came into force for the pay scales and working and study hours for apprentices and cadets. I was an apprentice at the time and, if I remember correctly, our pay was increased by about 60%. Our working hours were better defined which had the effect of reducing them. Minimum study hours were also introduced.
> 
> Can anyone be more specific about the date/year, the particulars and what authority was responsible?
> 
> ...


I joined the SS Cape Howe of the Lyle Shipping Co, Glasgow in S W Husskinson Dock, Liverpool as a first trip cadet, straight from Secondary Grammar School, aged 16 and 7 months,on 25th February 1949. My pay was, for the first year £6 5s per month, the second year £7 10s, third year £8 15s and fourth £10.0s. I was employed as a day-worker for eight hours per day, Sundays off.However in 1953 all seamen had a pay rise and mine went up to £12 1s 8d per month. For any hours worked over eight per day we were paid overtime at 1s 3d per hour,half of the AB's rate.I paid off that ship, with burned hands, almost exactly one year later after three trips to the Pacific West Coast. Joining the SS Cape Corso, after a month's leave. I stayed with that ship until 27th Jun 1953, three years and three months and a week! During all my cadetship I had a total of 59 days leave. As cadets we sat the Merchant Navy Training Board annual exams, designed to encourage us to study, and were allowed a reduction of 20% in the four year sea-time qualification time for Second Mates. Which meant that I was eligble to sit the exam about June 1952 but at that date we were on a voyage that lasted for another year and I wasn't signed off until June 1953. Even after my four years were up in February '53 the Company refused to raise my wages but did raise my overtime rate to that of an A.B. To compensate, the Mate offered the other cadet and I the opportunity of being the ship's nigh****chman whilst in port which earned us 24 hours overtime a week. The outshot of this was that my pay-off from that 15 month trip was £187. Suddenly I was rich! 

As far as Lyle's were concerned, cadets were cheap labour as all other crew members had higher wages. Apart from eating with the Officers I do not remember any advantage of being a cadet.Though as a seaman, I had three good meals a day (when the whole British population was on rations) cheap **** and if I stayed in the M.N. until age 26, avoidance of National Service.


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## Ian (Mar 27, 2004)

Hi Methc,
Were you ever on the Cape Ortigel think she was built in scotland.?


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## mclean (Jul 30, 2005)

Shell apprentice 1957/61. Study time pretty well zero, although Shell provided a correspondence course with King Edward,s. Pay pounds 100 first year, 160 last year. Plenty of overtime,field days etc.all of course without pay. Still, do not regret any of it. Colin


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## cboots (Aug 16, 2004)

I can identify with all of Medc's post above. Things had not improved much by the mid-sixties as I experienced them. I cannot remember my original pay rate as a first trip apprentice but after the first payrise it went up to twelve pounds and ten shillings a month, no paid overtime although you worked plenty of it, and that was Furness Withy, not by any means a tramp outfit. I know I will incur the wrath of some, but I can agree with Medc, we were cheap labour that could be ordered into a uniform when it suited, no pun intended there. I left as a chief mate in 1979 and things had definitely improved for all hands, including apprentices, but we were not brilliantly paid by any standards. If you wanted good money you had to go foreign flag for it.
CBoots


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## methc (May 4, 2005)

wa002f0328 said:


> Hi Methc,
> Were you ever on the Cape Ortigel think she was built in scotland.?


Hi, no - only the two I mentioned. The Cape Howe was built by Lithgows in 1943, as a coal burner and the Cape Corso was originally the Ocean Traveller. I have put a pic of her in the gallery under "Tramp Ships". the only ship of Lyle's that I would have like to be aboad was the Cape Sable, a pre-war vessel, chartred by "Maggie" Booth Line of Liverpool and employed on the Amazon. Probably terrible conditions but an interesting voyage.


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## Nova Scotian (Jul 2, 2006)

*Apprentices and Cadets*

Thanks for the comments and replies to my post. I dont think many of us went to sea for the salary. As apprentices with Houlder Brothers we did not get overtime pay. I always assumed that was the difference between a Cadet and Apprentice. Cadets could earn overtime. 

Toward the end of my time, I did receive a cheque for about twenty pounds from the company for "services beyond the normal call of duty". This recognised a three week stint where the apprentices worked twelve hours a day, with gas masks, running a refridgeration system for the ammonia gas cargo that refused to operate on automatic.

Cheers


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## Keith Adams (Nov 5, 2006)

I was both a Cadet and an Apprentice with PSNC as they weren't sure of a working class boy ... no difference in pay or conditions except being indentured they just couldn't let me go without cause .... it also meant they stopped entries in my Discharge Book after afew trips ... gave me letter at the end of my time that listed the voyages,ships, dates and months and days. Also that same info was typed on the back of my Indentures when I completed my time. 
Was paid 7 pounds and change for the first year and ended up with the Princely sum of 10 pounds and change for my 4th year ... that wasn't per week or month, that was the gross pay for an entire year! A first trip Deck Boy got more than that a month. I was kitted out at the Liverpool Sailor's Home in Liverpool for 10 pounds 10 shillings and it took me all of the 4 years to pay it off. I will add that living just across the river allowed the Company to keep me aboard ship after being paid off whereas those Cadets/Apprentice who lived further afield were allowed to go home ... didn't get home at nights a lot of the time as the Night Duty Officer would keep me aboard on duty so he could get some extra kip ... it was tough but then they must have gone through hell being at sea during the War ... each generation has it better than the one before. Going on holiday now... TTFN. Snowy


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