# Understanding the terminology - seamen's vernacular



## Pam Turner

I have found the social history learned through reading the posts of so many members in other threads, particularly shipping lines, on this forum really fascinating. However, as just the relative and with nothing more to go on than Dad's seamen's record book, I would find it really useful if there was some kind of glossary to hand (perhaps there is, and if so please direct me towards it) Some of the terms I have come across I have had kindly explained to me by other members, others I have googled or worked out by their context, or by reading more posts. Some I am still a little unsure of are as follows:-

'paid off'
RUN
Home Trade
dog watches
'Copra' ships
Shorthands/abbs used for various ratings
unestablished seafarer/established seafarer
off articles/off contract
standing by

There are, and will be others, of course... not good at keeping a running tally whilst reading posts.
Thought that as just a lay person, others doing family research will have the same issues...


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## tiachapman

logged


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## tiachapman

v n c


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## tsell

Pam Turner said:


> I have found the social history learned through reading the posts of so many members in other threads, particularly shipping lines, on this forum really fascinating. However, as just the relative and with nothing more to go on than Dad's seamen's record book, I would find it really useful if there was some kind of glossary to hand (perhaps there is, and if so please direct me towards it) Some of the terms I have come across I have had kindly explained to me by other members, others I have googled or worked out by their context, or by reading more posts. Some I am still a little unsure of are as follows:-
> 
> 'paid off'
> RUN
> Home Trade
> dog watches
> 'Copra' ships
> Shorthands/abbs used for various ratings
> unestablished seafarer/established seafarer
> off articles/off contract
> standing by
> 
> There are, and will be others, of course... not good at keeping a running tally whilst reading posts.
> Thought that as just a lay person, others doing family research will have the same issues...


Hi Pam, if you click on 'Search Forums' (on right above your heading) and enter 'Nautical Terms', scroll through the pages and you'll find a number of threads from about page 12. There may also be the odd one on earlier pages.

Cheers

Taff


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## Dave McGouldrick

'Going ashore gear'.
A phrase I still use when telling the missus I'm getting changed for going out.


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## tom roberts

How many of us had The Channels.?


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## Barrie Youde

#1 

Pam,

Paid off = termination of contract, with accounts settled.

RUN = distance travelled

Home Trade = Trade between UK ports and ports between the River Elbe and Brest, Brittany.

Dog-watches = 1600 to 1800 and 1800 to 2000 daily (Don't ask why! Some suggest - inaccurately -that the ship's dog might be left on watch at those times.)

Copra ships = Ships carrying a cargo of copra - dried coconut.

Shorthands/shorthanded = too few crew

standing by = In attendance and awaiting instructions to do something (often used when awaiting instructions for entering and leaving port)

Hope this might help.


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## Dave McGouldrick

"Dog-watches = 1600 to 1800 and 1800 to 2000 daily (Don't ask why! Some suggest - inaccurately -that the ship's dog might be left on watch at those times.)"

Patrick O'Brian made a pun that the Dog Watch is so called because it is shorter and thus 'curtailed'


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## Laurie Ridyard

Sh** , shave shampoo , shower and shove off ashore- going ashore.


Nowadays it's Sh** , shave shampoo , shower and shove off shopping ( at least on Wednesdays )

Laurie.


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## John Dryden

http://www.shipsnostalgia.com/guides/Category:Nautical_Terms


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## MikeK

tom roberts said:


> How many of us had The Channels.?


And the £10 channel money, or whatever the amount


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## John Cassels

tom roberts said:


> How many of us had The Channels.?


Every time Tom , it was a weird feeling especially after an eight month trip away.


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## makko

Standing by - Also "standing by" a new build i.e. making sure it conforms to plans.

Working by - On leave, shore work, working on a ship.

Rgds.
Dave


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## trotterdotpom

John Dryden said:


> http://www.shipsnostalgia.com/guides/Category:Nautical_Terms


This section was started by former Moderator, Benjidog, who jumped ship a couple of years ago to start a rival site. Since then it doesn't seem to be possible to add new terms.

John T


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## trotterdotpom

Dave McGouldrick said:


> 'Going ashore gear'.
> A phrase I still use when telling the missus I'm getting changed for going out.


"Back Scuttle"

A phrase that sends my wife rushing for the rolling pin.

John T


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## makko

Ring Bolt, John!!!


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## trotterdotpom

makko said:


> Ring Bolt, John!!!


A downstairs perk, Makko! I used the term not so long ago and it seemed that quite a few folk didn't understand it. 

John T


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## tom roberts

Short arm inspection ? First one I had to endure was in New Orleans,ignorant immigration bods even asked was I a commie hell I wasn't even old enough to vote being only 16 yrs old.


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## E.Martin

Ring Bolt,a new one on me,few more words we use to use.
Smoke O,Tweendecks,Bowsing Line,Guest Warp," 2 in the water Mr Mate,Round Turn,Bow line,Piss Baller,Jumbo,Gooseneck,,Monkey Island,truck,Fore Castle,Centre Castle,After Castle,Jumbo Fleet,Crutch,Farmer,Monkeys Fist,Cowl,
Gunnel,Bailer,Self righting lines,Lizard,Painter,Hawse Pipe,Spurling Pipe,Gypsy,Keel,Holy Stone,Heaving Line Knot,Cross Trees,Iron Mike,Binnacle,Fish Plate,Duck Billed,Head and Heel Blocks,Runner,Bilges,Turks Head,Sugi,and many more.


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## tom roberts

Cunard yank,blimpmerchant,for the uneducated a peeping tom ,tom pepper,a fibber,the Rosie or gashbucet,headworker in other words a lazy bastard,the chocolate rivet,and if you don't know what that is then it's your turn in the barrel,and what more famous character is Dr Ross if you had to visit him then you either had a full house or close to it which leads on to sandy mc nabs a shave and blue unction.Sorry if I am lowering the tone off this thread but it's all seafaring jargon and if you wish to complain I shall use the services of a mess deck lawyer to defend myself.


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## TonyAllen

lasarete.on bluies used the the china crew to bring stuff back from Hong Kong for their eating houses in liver pool


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## John Rogers

Did we miss the Fog locker. Porthole pudding,Golden Rivet. Brothel Creepers.


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## makko

Whammy, over the wall, flotation test. "How's the job?" - "Going up and down and round and round!".


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## Pat Kennedy

Barrie Youde said:


> #1
> 
> Pam,
> 
> Paid off = termination of contract, with accounts settled.
> 
> RUN = distance travelled
> 
> Home Trade = Trade between UK ports and ports between the River Elbe and Brest, Brittany.
> 
> Dog-watches = 1600 to 1800 and 1800 to 2000 daily (Don't ask why! Some suggest - inaccurately -that the ship's dog might be left on watch at those times.)
> 
> Copra ships = Ships carrying a cargo of copra - dried coconut.
> 
> Shorthands/shorthanded = too few crew
> 
> standing by = In attendance and awaiting instructions to do something (often used when awaiting instructions for entering and leaving port)
> 
> Hope this might help.


Barrie, in this context I think RUN could be referring to a run job, in which crew were hired to take a ship from A to B and then leave it and be transported back to their home port.
Pat


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## Barrie Youde

#24 

Hi, Pat,

I agree. Everything depends upon the context in which any of the expressions are used.

To run could also mean to sail with the wind from astern.

No doubt there are other meanings, too.

ps. I never did know the difference between an established rating and an unestablished rating. Presumably this meant proof of at least some sea-time and/or other qualifications. If so, what were the relevant requirements?


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## tom roberts

Barrie Youde said:


> #24
> 
> Hi, Pat,
> 
> I agree. Everything depends upon the context in which any of the expressions are used.
> 
> To run could also mean to sail with the wind from astern.
> 
> No doubt there are other meanings, too.
> 
> ps. I never did know the difference between an established rating and an unestablished rating. Presumably this meant proof of at least some sea-time and/or other qualifications. If so, what were the relevant requirements?


Established rating was a sailor who signed an agreement with the pool it gave you a payment if there was a shortage of ships a sort of dole but you had to take one of three ships offered I am not positive on this ,I established men could say no to any ship offered but they did not get any pay again I am not sure of this but I am sure our members can put me right.


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## Barrie Youde

My dear and late Mama, as far as I know, lived as pure and unblemished a life as might have been lived. In her seveny-five years on the planet, she was never known to have entered a public house.

It created some shock, therefore, the day when she greeted an old friend into our family home with the words, "Come in. Put your arce to an anchor!"

May God bless you, Mum!


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## Pat Kennedy

tom roberts said:


> Established rating was a sailor who signed an agreement with the pool it gave you a payment if there was a shortage of ships a sort of dole but you had to take one of three ships offered I am not positive on this ,I established men could say no to any ship offered but they did not get any pay again I am not sure of this but I am sure our members can put me right.


That's right Tom, I was established on the pool, but towards the end of my seagoing career I went unestablished because I was able to juggle going to sea and getting casual work in Cammell Lairds and Grayson Rollo and Clovers, usually as a stager or sailor gang. So I had the best of both worlds, carefree and unattached.(Jester)


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## MikeK

Barrie Youde said:


> My dear and late Mama, as far as I know, lived as pure and unblemished a life as might have been lived. In her seveny-five years on the planet, she was never known to have entered a public house.
> 
> It created some shock, therefore, the day when she greeted an old friend into our family home with the words, "Come in. Put your arce to an anchor!"
> 
> May God bless you, Mum!



Lovely story ! Gave me a nice chuckle first thing in the morning 

Mike


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## Barrie Youde

#29 

Good-oh!

Cheers, Mike. Mum would be pleased!

BY


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## Chillytoes

One good source of salty talk is “All Hands And the Cook” by Barry Thompson. The sub-title is ‘The customs and language of the British Merchant Seaman 1875-1975’. It’s bit hard to get now, however, and doesn’t have some of the more fruity terms quoted above!


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## Barrie Youde

Different vernacular terms apply in different ways of life; and their origins are frequently useful in identifying more precisely the different meanings in different cir***stances.

In the sailor's vernacular we use port and starboard for left and right, where a horseman uses nearside and offside to mean the same thing. ("Pass by the head of a horse and the stern of a ship" was a maxim drilled into me at an early age.) In navigating whilst driving a car, when I want to be absolutely certain of something in my own mind, I still think in terms of "Keep point X on the starboard side, etc." or "Somehow, we've got a scratch on the port quarter". It all seems very much more precise and more readily and immediately understandable. 

I haven't yet read "All hands and the Cook" but I look forward to doing so. To any sailor it means "Everybody, without exception". Alternatively, it could mean "The world and his wife". Fascinating stuff!


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## canadian

makko said:


> Whammy, over the wall, flotation test. "How's the job?" - "Going up and down and round and round!".


Double whammy, for me means "a bigger problem"


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## Barrie Youde

"Double whammy" is a term which I first heard used in the late 1970s, long after I had learned on going to sea in 1959 that a whammy is any useful length of rope or cordage of convenient size.

Those who spoke of a double whammy were (and still are, as far as I know) invariably politicians whose knowledge of that which they speak is usually very small. 

My garden shed is full of odd lengths of whammy. Should I chuck 'em all out? Not likely!


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## canadian

Barrie Youde said:


> "Double whammy" is a term which I first heard used in the late 1970s, long after I had learned on going to sea in 1959 that a whammy is any useful length of rope or cordage of convenient size.
> 
> Those who spoke of a double whammy were (and still are, as far as I know) invariably politicians whose knowledge of that which they speak is usually very small.
> 
> My garden shed is full of odd lengths of whammy. Should I chuck 'em all out? Not likely!


Hello Barrie I noticed you answered your own question, so it brings to mind a time when on Hastings beach shoals of white bait were wiggling in the shingle closely followed by Mackerel. and me with no angling gear, however the fisherman had left many whammies scattered amongst their boats from net and other repairs, these were collected and joined with sheet bends. A whitebait was attached to catch a Mackerel, my wife kindly held on to the end of the contraption while I cast, she let go, needless to say the end result was lots of whammies going back to sea.


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## makko

I think "Whammy" may be of Chinese origin. It is indeed a length of thin rope, useful to anchor things so that they don't move.
Rgds.
Dave


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## david freeman

*a little more mist to that cloudy sky??*



Pat Kennedy said:


> Barrie, in this context I think RUN could be referring to a run job, in which crew were hired to take a ship from A to B and then leave it and be transported back to their home port.
> Pat


Off contract of articles- This was the 'bugger' in detail in my shipping days I signed articles-Foriegn Going (Valid for 2 years unless the ship returned to the UK, or Running articles they were valid for six months, regardless of whether a ship traded in and out of the UK, and one was bound for the whole 6 months, unless the articles were broken/scraped by the Captain of shipping master. To confuse the issue my company offered a pension scheme (Company scheme which could be contributory or non contributory,) and one to join to be elligable had to sign a company employment contract which was for two years to sign on any company ship. 
The rub was the contract dates (Termination) may not coinside and the major do***ent was the articles and your commitment to that ship at the time: If your contract ended (It had to be renewed every aniversay every2 years), If you did not do this your were off contract but could be on articles, and then your company pay was adjusted while on articles to MN Terms (The POOL), and your company pension ceased and you were autmatically enrolled on or in the MN Pension fund (Govermnent run/sponsored), until you arrived back in the UK and artlces were closed by the shipping master. If you came back to NW Europe, or were foreign worldwide when aticles ceased the shipping company could ask you to work your passage back to the UK, on MN pension pay and ordinary pay.
If one was wise or fortunate the time your contracted ended you would be on leave in the UK and the problems where halved.


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## E.Martin

I always thought you became established when you signed a contract with the Shipping Federation.


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## Barrie Youde

#38 

That would fit with the way Pat describes it, above.

I remember very well that the Shipping Federation at Mann Island in Liverpool had a large sign above the main entrance saying "ESTABLISHED RATINGS". I always thought that it meant (perhaps) JOS and above, or at least something above Deck Boy. Apparently not. It had nothing to do with experience. and was merely a financial arrangement, like any other.


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## Barrie Youde

Are these terms right- ?:-

Indian Crew:-

Serang = Bosun
Khalassi = Sailor

Chinese Crew:-

Tommaloe = Carpenter

What was the Chinese term for Bosun? Was there such a word?

What about Tindl? Was that an Indian Quartermaster - or have I got that wrong?


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## Bridie

Barrie Youde said:


> I remember very well that the Shipping Federation at Mann Island in Liverpool had a large sign above the main entrance saying "ESTABLISHED RATINGS".


I think there were two doors in Prescott Street as well. *Established *and *Unestablished*.


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## trotterdotpom

#40 . An Indian Quartermaster was a "secunny" but probably not spelled like that.

Pretty sure the Tindal was a bosun's mate.

The term "Lascar" seems to be politically incorrect now but I remember shoreside toilets for "Officers", "Crew" and "Lascars" in London docks. Presumably the latter had holes in the ground.

John T


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## tom roberts

When I sailed on a city boat there were two Indian crew that were treated like ****e by the serang and the other deck crowd they were called jackies and they asked to clean our accommodation we payed them £1 a week ,I was a q.m.onthe ship but I only did a round the land on her.The term whammy someone stated it was Chinese for string maybe this is why the only people I sailed with were ex blue flu men who used this term I use to call it hairy string.


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## tom roberts

P.s.on last post re the city of Kahrtoum she was also a lousy feeder Indian cooks and they served up the worst curry I've ever had.


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## Barrie Youde

#42 

Thank you, John.

Am now quite sure that you are right as to both secunni and tindl!

Here in Liverpool the term "The 'ed serang" is often used to the present day to mean "the big cheese" or "the boss blocker" or something equally as contemptuous of authority.


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## saudisid

Barrie Youde said:


> #42
> 
> Thank you, John.
> 
> Am now quite sure that you are right as to both secunni and tindl!
> 
> Here in Liverpool the term "The 'ed serang" is often used to the present day to mean "the big cheese" or "the boss blocker" or something equally as contemptuous of authority.[/quo
> 
> Barrie
> 
> Regarding the " Jackie ". He was the Topaz. One of the untouchables. They change the name to " Utility Hand. They cleaned the toilets and did any other " Dirty " job. With Ellermans we had Deck/ Eng and Saloon Topas [ Sorry Utility hands.] When the deck crew were chipping etc he was the one who cleaned up. I sailed with one in the City of Brisbane and again in the City of Ripon. His dhoby was the best even the boiler suite came back starched.
> 
> One other deck rating was Cassab. Store keeper the Fore Peak Store was his kingdom. He got all the paint ready and made the " Cassabs Mixture " for wire ropes.
> 
> Alan


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## trotterdotpom

Barrie Youde said:


> #42
> 
> Thank you, John.
> 
> Am now quite sure that you are right as to both secunni and tindl!
> 
> Here in Liverpool the term "The 'ed serang" is often used to the present day to mean "the big cheese" or "the boss blocker" or something equally as contemptuous of authority.


Yes, I hear the term used now and then here too. Usually used by people with no idea of its origin.

John T

PS I've never really thought of it as a contemptuous expression though, more in the way of a "nickname".


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## trotterdotpom

tom roberts said:


> P.s.on last post re the city of Kahrtoum she was also a lousy feeder Indian cooks and they served up the worst curry I've ever had.


Haw haw. You are now going to get a barrage of replies from the mugs who used to hang around the bhandari's galley with their begging bowls. Funny thing, after years with Indian crews, they never realised that curry is just foreign muck.

John T


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## Barrie Youde

#47 

Perhaps I exaggerate.

But not much!


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## John Rogers

A Whammy is an Event.

A whammy was originally an evil influence or hex. It originated in the USA in the 1940s and is associated with a variety of events/sports. Journal, October 1939:


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## Dartskipper

Barrie Youde said:


> Are these terms right- ?:-
> 
> Indian Crew:-
> 
> Serang = Bosun
> Khalassi = Sailor
> 
> Chinese Crew:-
> 
> Tommaloe = Carpenter
> 
> What was the Chinese term for Bosun? Was there such a word?
> 
> What about Tindl? Was that an Indian Quartermaster - or have I got that wrong?


My late Dad sailed with a Chinese crew before the War when he was apprenticed to the Anglo Sax. (Shell). He always referred to a "chippy" as a "Tommaloe." Apparently the Tommaloe on the Cardium was an absolute genius with a small hand axe. He would sharpen it and then test its edge by shaving the hairs on his fore arm. He would then use it to shape odd pieces of wood and attach scraps of canvas to make flip-flops for the deck crew. I heard this story countless times as a lad!


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## Barrie Youde

#30 

Dear old Hugh Ferguson joined Blue Flue in 1943.

I have asked Hugh's daughter if whammy meant "Handy length of cordage" at that time!


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## holland25

I seem to remember in Blue Flue the Chinese Chippy being referred to as Tommaloe.


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## dannic

Thought wammy came from wampum, a name for a type of rope.
Indian crew were Deck Serang (Bosun) Tindal (Asst Bosun) Secunny (quartermaster/helmsman) on deck and Engine Serang, Cassab (storekeeper), then fireman or donkeyman (even on motorships). Bhandari and Bhandaris mate in crew galley, the final lowest was the cleaner, an untouchable but cannot recall the title!
Dannic.


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## ChasH

Barrie Youde said:


> #24
> 
> Hi, Pat,
> 
> I agree. Everything depends upon the context in which any of the expressions are used.
> 
> To run could also mean to sail with the wind from astern.
> 
> No doubt there are other meanings, too.
> 
> ps. I never did know the difference between an established rating and an unestablished rating. Presumably this meant proof of at least some sea-time and/or other qualifications. If so, what were the relevant requirements?


hi Barrie i always understood established meant you were pool contract (shipping federation) for 2 years which could be renewed, if you were out of work you drew money from the pool, unistablished you just signed on the dole, but got nothing for 6 weeks just your unemployment stamp, me personally i was always unistablished this gave me the freedom to go where i liked. if you were established and turned down i think 3 ships you went in front of a commitee and could get kicked off of the pool chasH


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## trotterdotpom

dannic said:


> Thought wammy came from wampum, a name for a type of rope.
> Indian crew were Deck Serang (Bosun) Tindal (Asst Bosun) Secunny (quartermaster/helmsman) on deck and Engine Serang, Cassab (storekeeper), then fireman or donkeyman (even on motorships). Bhandari and Bhandaris mate in crew galley, the final lowest was the cleaner, an untouchable but cannot recall the title!
> Dannic.


I think Wampum are beads that the American ****** used for money, Dannic. Time was you could buy Kansas for a bag of it.

Are you perhaps thinking of Oakum, the stringy stuff they caulked the planks of wooden decks with?

"Topas" was the low-downest cleaner - wonder if they stayed at sea long enough, they ever attained touchable status and became a sailor or somat?

John T


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## Barrie Youde

#47 

Hi, John,

I'd agree that Serang might well be used as a nickname, although nicnames are usually used with at least some affection.

Affection and authority are words which are rarely heard together in the same breath, here in the world capital of irreverence!


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## Pat Kennedy

A whammy was simply a length of ropeyarn. very useful for lashing down the top turn of wire springs on the bitts etc. Also used for parcelling up stacks of old cargo mats when hatch cleaning.
The ropeyarn came from lengths of old mooring rope, the lampy always had a load hung up in the focsle on Blueys.


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## Michael Taylor

Topas or Jackie....from the Hindi for a short brush made from reeds called a Jaru. Wampum is made from the purple edges of clam or quahog shells and treaded on a string by length. Used by the Sachems as well as the Pilgrims here in MA for trade purposes.


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## sidsal

Schooner rigged.
meaning nit very well dressed !


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## Barrie Youde

'52

Hugh Ferguson, who served Blue Flue between 1943 and 1957, says that he has heard the word whammy, "but not in the sense used here".

That is not the response which I had expected!

Upon further consideration, I never did hear my own papa (1910-2005) use the expression - and he was a whizz at ropework.


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## Pat Kennedy

The word "whammy" was particular to Blue Funnel I think, I rarely heard it used in other companies. 
It was attributed to a Scottish Bosun, Peter (Jock) Sutherland, who was often referred to, behind his back, as Whammy.
I sailed with Jock many times, he was a character, and a good seaman. sadly, he died a miserable death, falling into Gladsone Dock on his way back to the Jason after a couple of hours in the Caradoc. 
When he didn't show up for stations, a search was instituted and his body was found floating near the head of the dock the following morning.
(Sad)


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## Barrie Youde

#62 

Many thanks, Pat.

We live and learn!


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## dannic

trotterdotpom said:


> I think Wampum are beads that the American ****** used for money, Dannic. Time was you could buy Kansas for a bag of it.
> 
> Are you perhaps thinking of Oakum, the stringy stuff they caulked the planks of wooden decks with?
> 
> "Topas" was the low-downest cleaner - wonder if they stayed at sea long enough, they ever attained touchable status and became a sailor or somat?
> 
> John T


Ok and thanks for remembering Topaz, John.
Dannic.


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## david freeman

trotterdotpom said:


> #40 . An Indian Quartermaster was a "secunny" but probably not spelled like that.
> 
> Pretty sure the Tindal was a bosun's mate.
> 
> The term "Lascar" seems to be politically incorrect now but I remember shoreside toilets for "Officers", "Crew" and "Lascars" in London docks. Presumably the latter had holes in the ground.
> 
> John T


I understood secunny was a/the helms man with a steering certificate.


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## david freeman

dannic said:


> Ok and thanks for remembering Topaz, John.
> Dannic.


Topaz was an ''untouchable!!''


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## david freeman

tom roberts said:


> How many of us had The Channels.?


it was great to get ''LEFO'!


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## david freeman

*kharchii and Bombay Crews*

In the experience I had at sea the Asiatic crews could be Pakistani (Karachi) or Indian (Bombay)- The company agent or so the story goes would for thie 2 year contract sign on the serangs and Tindals from the same local villages/towns with they would employ there other local seafaring friends, so it could be arather large 'FAMILY affair'?
I did have the joy of sailing with asiatic crews and two things I noted:
1 -The issue of rations was by the butler to each man for dried and tinned goods, once a week wieghed out according to BOT scales for Indian/asiactic Crews- the men would pool their rations and give then to the Bandari for consumption, any excess they would gather together and on an or at an appropriate time (Ration sesssion-Hand back in weight the correct amount for their goods and recieve a chit for that weight of food bagged and sealed.) Now the handed back stores were reissued and the cycle began again until payoff.
Now then amongst the sewing machines, bicycles, and mopeds as I watched one crew pay off in Dubai for Bombay were the items- remeber the chits? per man of GHee, flour, sugar, etc. and any other cosumable from the galley drystores. It was a pictue to behold.
The original crew most proberbly flew into the UK and stayed at Simpsons in Hebburn, or the north side of the Tyne joined the ship with the then thought of good gear; Flip flops, plastic shopping bag and a few reefers (Biddies) with matches ready to start the voyage and pay off in style some 2 years later. It was a world to behold, and a long way from ''ealth and safety''- you had to be their guardians in this respect. That was the crew. The catering crews were all from Goa (Portuguese Christains) for the officers.
The crew had bandarahi's and feast days aboard if one went into the upper boiler room/funnel or on the poop there could be meat from shark/fish drying of other morsels and live chickens clucking around the deck-I never saw a goat though! That may have been me?
One pleasure on the 12/4 morning watch was to pass the port holes of the bandarhi's galley, and duck- one would hear the bowls of a throat being cleared and a dollop of 'goss' would ricochi through the porthole and fly around the appropite handrail, then a friendly hand would follow with a ghee japappi in hand for 'Sharb' all great as one ensured the fridges were at the correct temperature and there were no problems in the galley's with the stoves. The crew gally was manned from early morning to late at night, and the christain/officers galley from say 7 -7.
All in a days routine at sea.


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## canadian

Pat Kennedy said:


> The word "whammy" was particular to Blue Funnel I think, I rarely heard it used in other companies.
> It was attributed to a Scottish Bosun, Peter (Jock) Sutherland, who was often referred to, behind his back, as Whammy.
> I sailed with Jock many times, he was a character, and a good seaman. sadly, he died a miserable death, falling into Gladsone Dock on his way back to the Jason after a couple of hours in the Caradoc.
> When he didn't show up for stations, a search was instituted and his body was found floating near the head of the dock the following morning.
> (Sad)


The word Whammy is an idiom for negative expression, it doesn't surprise me that seaman use it as the opposite, after all our skills taught us to improvise, for example the Spanish windless to name but a few. Idioms are classified as figurative language, which is the use of words in an unusual or imaginative manner.


----------



## jmcg

Bridie said:


> I think there were two doors in Prescott Street as well. *Established *and *Unestablished*.


You are quite correct Bridie - there was indeed an Established and Un--established entrance. Like Prescott St , Liverpool Mann island was the same.
Cannot for the life of me remember the distinction. When I left the China to go on the "Pool" I do however recall using the "Established" entrance.

Once inside one faced a slim bald headed man who was known as Stirling Moss (after the racing driver).

He had the ability to ship you out on a bummer for 12 months or sweeten you with a good runner down the Med . I had one of each!

BW

J(Gleam)(Gleam)


----------



## tom roberts

*Seafaring venachular*

Parcelling,wrapping hessian around an eye splice and whipping it,this is where the word for a parcel originated so I was told,anymore terms in every day life originated in the same way?let us know.


----------



## Barrie Youde

The Concise Oxford Dictionary (Seventh Edition,1982) defines Whammy as a noun, "(thing with) supernatural power, esp. one bringing bad luck. [20th Century, of unknown origin]"

Fascinating stuff indeed. We now know from Hugh Ferguson and Pat Kennedy that there is good reason to think that the word was not used to refer to rope, cordage or rope yarn before WWII. Pat even provides a possible origin for that use (and probably after WWII). The C.O.D. of 1982, on the other hand, admits and agrees that it is probably a 20th century word of unknown origin.

I wonder if any reader might have to hand a pre-1982 dictionary of equal standing with the C.O.D. - and, if so, what it might have to say? When did the word first enter any dictionary? ( We heard politicians use "double-whammy" in the 1970s.)

Really, I should get out more!


----------



## sibby

Then there was the board of trade suit. Denim shirt, denim Jacket and levi jeans.


----------



## trotterdotpom

david freeman said:


> I understood secunny was a/the helms man with a steering certificate.


Yes and he also did all sorts of other jobs round the bridge and monkey island, i.e. a Quartermaster.

John T


----------



## Mariner44

Barrie Youde said:


> #24
> 
> Hi, Pat,
> 
> I agree. Everything depends upon the context in which any of the expressions are used.
> 
> To run could also mean to sail with the wind from astern.
> 
> No doubt there are other meanings, too.
> 
> ps. I never did know the difference between an established rating and an unestablished rating. Presumably this meant proof of at least some sea-time and/or other qualifications. If so, what were the relevant requirements?


Established: having a contract with the British Shipping Federation, and therefore better pay and conditions than those who were "unestablished"


----------



## tom roberts

*Established samen*



Mariner44 said:


> Established: having a contract with the British Shipping Federation, and therefore better pay and conditions than those who were "unestablished"


Sorry Mariner but established or not pay and conditions were the same as non established.


----------



## Mad Landsman

tom roberts said:


> Parcelling,wrapping hessian around an eye splice and whipping it,this is where the word for a parcel originated so I was told,anymore terms in every day life originated in the same way?let us know.


The original meaning of parcel was a small part or a division of some larger part - 'parcel of land' is still in use. 
By convention it became to mean a small piece of material etc, hence by the early 17th century it was used in the nautical sense because small pieces of canvas were so used. 

The later use (late 17th century) of a 'package' probably came, as you say, from the nautical.


----------



## Mad Landsman

For whammy, here is what the SOED has to say:

*whammy* noun. colloq. (orig. N. Amer.). M20.
[ORIGIN from wham noun + -y⁶, assoc. with the cartoon strip Li'l Abner, in which the hillbilly Evil-Eye Fleegle could ‘shoot a whammy’ (put a curse on somebody) by pointing a finger with one eye open, and give a ‘double whammy’ with both eyes open.]
An evil or unlucky influence; an unpleasant or problematic effect or situation; double whammy, a twofold blow or setback.



IF the origin was the useof the word by a Scot then perhaps the nautical use might have come from 'whang' that being a leather thong in Scotland..... ?


----------



## Barrie Youde

#78 

Very many thanks, ML.

That certainly gives us an origin of the double-whammy.

Also, as Pat points out, a handy length of old rope-yarn used as a seizing or a mousing might properly be construed as a preventer, to prevent something happening: just as the character in the cartoon sought to prevent something happening. Now it makes complete sense.

What does SOED stand for s.v.p?


----------



## Mad Landsman

SOED = Shorter Oxford English Dictionary. 

Shorter in the sense that it is 'only' two large volumes, but they also supply a disc so that you can load on your PC (very handy!).


----------



## jmcg

Dartskipper said:


> My late Dad sailed with a Chinese crew before the War when he was apprenticed to the Anglo Sax. (Shell). He always referred to a "chippy" as a "Tommaloe." Apparently the Tommaloe on the Cardium was an absolute genius with a small hand axe. He would sharpen it and then test its edge by shaving the hairs on his fore arm. He would then use it to shape odd pieces of wood and attach scraps of canvas to make flip-flops for the deck crew. I heard this story countless times as a lad!


In Blue Funnel the Tommaloe was the chippies mate -not the chippy or carpenter.

The chippie was PO rated whereas the tommoloe was just one of the Chinese chaps with a particular skill on deck

BW

J (Gleam)(Gleam)


----------



## jmcg

What was the term "tiger" meant to convey as the Old Mans steward.


BW

J(Gleam)(Gleam)


----------



## mary75

Has anyone mentioned the term, mug up? I first heard it in the 1940's on the Union Steamship's Lady Cecilia. She called in at all the small coastal villages on the B.C. (Canadian) coast. It meant a short break in the galley, usually for coffee. If you were lucky, there might be some leftover pie.


----------



## Dartskipper

jmcg said:


> In Blue Funnel the Tommaloe was the chippies mate -not the chippy or carpenter.
> 
> The chippie was PO rated whereas the tommoloe was just one of the Chinese chaps with a particular skill on deck
> 
> BW
> 
> J (Gleam)(Gleam)


Thanks for the clarification J. (Thumb)

Roy.


----------



## Barrie Youde

#80 

Many thanks, ML!


----------



## Mariner44

tom roberts said:


> Sorry Mariner but established or not pay and conditions were the same as non established.


I was conned, then, back in 1967


----------



## Aberdonian

Mad Landsman said:


> IF the origin was the use of the word by a Scot then perhaps the nautical use might have come from 'whang' that being a leather thong in Scotland..... ?


A near match: Chambers has: "Whample" _(Scot.)_ a blow; a sudden blow.

Keith


----------



## Pat Kennedy

Mariner44 said:


> I was conned, then, back in 1967


The difference between established and unestablished seaman on the pool was;
Established seamen got preference for any jobs on offer over unestablished seamen, and established seamen were paid a small amount per diem if no work was available whereas unestablished seamen could only claim unemployment benefit.
In practice there was little difference, and there was certainly no difference whatsoever to terms and conditions of employment once you had signed on a ship.

Pat(Smoke)


----------



## Pat Kennedy

jmcg said:


> In Blue Funnel the Tommaloe was the chippies mate -not the chippy or carpenter.
> 
> The chippie was PO rated whereas the tommoloe was just one of the Chinese chaps with a particular skill on deck
> 
> BW
> 
> J (Gleam)(Gleam)


That's right John, and not all Blueys had a tommaloe. In my experience it was the Aussie boats and the 'P' class only.
Pat(Smoke)


----------



## Barrie Youde

#87 

Game, set and match, as Mr Murray might put it!


----------



## Bridie

Mad Landsman said:


> For whammy, here is what the SOED has to say:
> 
> *whammy* noun. colloq. (orig. N. Amer.). M20.
> [ORIGIN from wham noun + -y⁶, assoc. with the cartoon strip Li'l Abner, in which the hillbilly Evil-Eye Fleegle could ‘shoot a whammy’ (put a curse on somebody) by pointing a finger with one eye open, and give a ‘double whammy’ with both eyes open.]
> An evil or unlucky influence; an unpleasant or problematic effect or situation; double whammy, a twofold blow or setback.


As far as I remember it was a *wammy*, not whammy. Often used them when tying up to make sure wire ropes wouldn't jump off the bits, or when coiling up a rope to stop it tuning into a _"bunch of batsards"_ if not stowed away properly. Always lots to hand up in the Lampy's store  .


----------



## lakercapt

Barry I would suggest that Paid off was the termination of the ships agreement and not the contract.


----------



## jmcg

Bridie said:


> As far as I remember it was a *wammy*, not whammy. Often used them when tying up to make sure wire ropes wouldn't jump off the bits, or when coiling up a rope to stop it tuning into a _"bunch of batsards"_ if not stowed away properly. Always lots to hand up in the Lampy's store  .



Same here Bridie - just didn't want to stray from the meaning.

When working the refineries one could always identify ex seamen when they used the word "wammy".

BW

J(Gleam)(Gleam)


----------



## Barrie Youde

#92 

I agree that there are numerous different contexts - as we have seen with much of the terminology!

To revert to the matter of the wammy/whammy - is ropeyarn used to prevent something from happening or to enable a thing to happen?

Do we use our shoelaces to keep our shoes on or to prevent them from falling off?

Hours of contemplation around the camp-fire!


----------



## holland25

That's right John, and not all Blueys had a tommaloe. In my experience it was the Aussie boats and the 'P' class only.
Pat

Whilst admitting it was a long time ago and my memory is not the best, I do recall that on the Ulysses we had a Malayan crew on deck and Chinese in the Engine room and I don't remember having a European Chippy.


----------



## Barrie Youde

"Tommed-off" or "tomming-off"?

An expression used in the stowage of cargo, as I recall it, meaning that it was secured by means of carpentry work, if necessary by either the chippy or the tommaloe.

In Glen Line, with an all-Chinese crew with no European carpenter, I seem to recall also that it was the Chinese carpenter himself who was called the tommaloe; but I'm open to correction on all points.

I agree with Bridie as to the spelling of "wammy" - a word which I had heard often but had not seen written down until seeing it here in SN. "Double-whammy", on the other hand, is often seen in the national press.


----------



## John Jarman

Barrie Youde said:


> "Tommed-off" or "tomming-off"?
> 
> An expression used in the stowage of cargo, as I recall it, meaning that it was secured by means of carpentry work, if necessary by either the chippy or the tommaloe.
> 
> In Glen Line, with an all-Chinese crew with no European carpenter, I seem to recall also that it was the Chinese carpenter himself who was called the tommaloe; but I'm open to correction on all points.
> 
> I agree with Bridie as to the spelling of "wammy" - a word which I had heard often but had not seen written down until seeing it here in SN. "Double-whammy", on the other hand, is often seen in the national press.


Barrie,
In guitar speak, a tremolo mechanism or more correctly, a vibrato system, 'whammy bar' is quoted quite often.
I only mention this as 'tremelo' and 'tommaloe' sounded similar.
Were does 'Tommaloe' come from?

JJ.


----------



## Barrie Youde

#97 

Other than Chinese sailor-speak, I do not know.


----------



## Dave McGouldrick

There was a Blue Funnel chief mate known as 'the flying wammy' by the scouse crowd. It didn't appear to be offered as a compliment.


----------



## tom roberts

*Seamens speak*

a word used by as far as I know by Liverpool seamen was i will mug you meaning he will either lend you a few bob or maybe pay for your ale. Today it's used as you know to rob you or such even today my missus uses she will mug me if I want Allan out of her purse, and she's from Birkenhead.


----------



## tom roberts

P.s.not Allan out of her purse but a loan,just in case any of you get the wrong idea.


----------



## Bridie

Barrie Youde said:


> To revert to the matter of the wammy/whammy - is ropeyarn used to prevent something from happening or to enable a thing to happen?


When tying up, the *wammy* was used to prevent you getting a huge bollocking from the bosun


----------



## Pat Kennedy

Barrie Youde said:


> "Tommed-off" or "tomming-off"?
> 
> An expression used in the stowage of cargo, as I recall it, meaning that it was secured by means of carpentry work, if necessary by either the chippy or the tommaloe.
> 
> In Glen Line, with an all-Chinese crew with no European carpenter, I seem to recall also that it was the Chinese carpenter himself who was called the tommaloe; but I'm open to correction on all points.
> 
> I agree with Bridie as to the spelling of "wammy" - a word which I had heard often but had not seen written down until seeing it here in SN. "Double-whammy", on the other hand, is often seen in the national press.


When I was in the Blue Flu shoregang in Birkenhead, much of our work was helping the Odyssey Works shipwrights tomming off cargo ready for sea. We used stacks of 3 x 3 timber, bags of 4" nails and miles of lashing wire with bulldog grips and of course loads of wammies/whammies.
When we lowered the derricks ready for sailing, all the guys and runners were tied up out of the way using more wammies. They were an indispensable part of the ship's equipment. We even hung bottles of Anchor beer over the side on wammies to keep them cool while in Hong Kong.(No fridge in the sailor's mess in those days)
Regarding the word "tommaloe", I asked a Chinese speaker what was the Chinese word for carpenter/shipwright. It is "Mujiang" , so I guess the origin of the word is not Mandarin Chinese, but could well be "Shanghainese" dialect which is very different.
Regards, 
Pat(Thumb)


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## kauvaka

Advantage note = Advance note = pay advance when signing on, Dockside pubs and shops would cash or "crack" a note at 25% discount. If the donor didn't sail with the vessel the cashier didn't get paid. If he did sail the cashier got the full whack.
Admirality - heard on RFAs referring to the Admiralty


----------



## makko

tom roberts said:


> a word used by as far as I know by Liverpool seamen was i will mug you meaning he will either lend you a few bob or maybe pay for your ale. Today it's used as you know to rob you or such even today my missus uses she will mug me if I want Allan out of her purse, and she's from Birkenhead.


Agreed Tom. My mother still uses the term (and she is eighty). "Here, I'lll mug you a beer!". In other words, I will give you the money. And she is as pure Wallasey as you can get! My Nan was born in the Stone Cottages in Wallasey Village. Pat can comment on the relevance of this!
Rgds.
Dave


----------



## William Clark8

*Strap up*

How did that term originate?


----------



## trotterdotpom

kauvaka said:


> Advantage note = Advance note = pay advance when signing on, Dockside pubs and shops would cash or "crack" a note at 25% discount. If the donor didn't sail with the vessel the cashier didn't get paid. If he did sail the cashier got the full whack.
> Admirality - heard on RFAs referring to the Admiralty


When I worked for Scottish Ship Management I used to do the wages and issued a few "Notes on Owners". This was a facility whereby crewmembers could send money home in an emergency. They were allowed to send as much money as they had in the ship at the time of issue. I just used to type them out on a piece of paper and am struggling to remember if I sent them to the company or gave them to the person concerned. I think it was probably the former.

John T

PS I remember people using the term "Admirality" - a bit like the ones who say "Westminister".


----------



## trotterdotpom

William Clark8 said:


> How did that term originate?


Wasn't "strapping up" what they did in the galley at the end of the day? Presumably securing all the pots and pans and what not.

John T


----------



## TonyAllen

trotterdotpom said:


> Wasn't "strapping up" what they did in the galley at the end of the day? Presumably securing all the pots and pans and what not.
> 
> John T


no.on old ships the plates ect were on racks .slid back in and a leather strap was was secured over the front .and the door shut, so in really heavy the door might open but the strap held the racks in.

in the galley on blue flu the only thing secured at night was the large stock pot ..it was easier to put large to small pots inside each other and put in the large sink .everything else was cooked on hot plates only a few frying pans were use for omelettes ect .plus the large ovens were very well secured from the movement of the ship.the baker would put all his smalll stuff inside the Hobart mixer the first ship I was on the "avistone" 1955 had the strap in the pantry.the store room was under the pantry and the the same system was used then. 
the iron bars were only used in heavy weather while. we were cooking 

with all the slots in the iron bars you could make so many different shapes to fit the pans .of course they di not need many pots in blue flu
soon as it was used the galley boy would have to wash and clean it right away ,to be used again, never ending it seemed .but if you kept up to the mark as the meal when on you could catch up and only have a bit to do at the end .and have your wash down ready when the cooks left the galley .then done.6 am wake up 7.30 ish finish 2.1/0 on your own doing spuds and veg ect in the afternoon make sure ovens back on .put the roast meat in at the time the chef told you too."I was so busy once put the meat in an hour late alf brierly the chef gave me a right boloking." ready for the cooks turn to, then one hour break.then back in the galley again .I think it also the same hours for the Peggy...cheers


----------



## Pam Turner

(Your) Beam end ?

One nautical term I remember my Dad using at home occasionally, and although unintentional, insensitively to a teenage girl in her new jeans, if you get my drift..
Can anyone give the nautical meaning? think I'm thick skinned enough to take it now!!


----------



## Barrie Youde

It refers to a ship which is half-capsized, with her masts lying level with the surface of the sea.

The "beams" are the ship's beams which are an integral part of the construction, and which lie horizontally across the ship and upon which the deck is laid. Hence when a ship is half-capsized - or listing at 90 degrees, she is well and truly on her beam ends - or the ends of her beams - and also in much difficulty.


Any young lady who might once have enjoyed the title "rear of the year" could find herself on her beam ends if she might run into some serious misfortune!


----------



## tom roberts

*Seafaring terms*

A skin boat I.e.fyffes banana boats,skinning out I.e.jumping ship or correctly leaving a ship before completion of articles mostly done in Australia or New Zealand go ashore gear I.e.your best clobber.


----------



## tsell

"Two Blocks!" Had more than one connotation...

Taff


----------



## makko

A forced draught job! Another.........


----------



## tom roberts

Previous post reminded me of another term. Black Draught a potion that would shift tree stumps let alone the problem of constipation,it was said that more than one Kroo boy on the African west coast died of peritonitis when the chief steward diagnosed constipation instead and dished out copious amounts of the draught.


----------



## holland25

Perhaps not pertinent, but one I have always liked is ,"snug in the lee of bum island".


----------



## alan ward

tiachapman said:


> v n c


Very Nice Chap


----------



## alan ward

Chillytoes said:


> One good source of salty talk is “All Hands And the Cook” by Barry Thompson. The sub-title is ‘The customs and language of the British Merchant Seaman 1875-1975’. It’s bit hard to get now, however, and doesn’t have some of the more fruity terms quoted above!


I always remember an old AB on a Harrisons boat mentioning that we should make a point of visiting the Seamans Clinic for a check up after we`d been away`When you`ve been shagging all hands and the cook`


----------



## alan ward

I was once in Mann Island when a bloke came in and asked the clerk`Any chance of making a come back?` when told yes but he had to go virtually immediately he said`I`ll just drop me lad off back home pick my gear then`and was gone.Fastest job interview I`ve ever seen.


----------



## William Clark8

*V n c*

Was that not regarded as being worse than a D R?


----------



## Les Gibson

VNC= Voyage not completed. Not necessarily a bad stamp in the book . Could be hospitalisation, but invariably used when someone had 'jumped'


----------



## Pat Kennedy

Les Gibson said:


> VNC= Voyage not completed. Not necessarily a bad stamp in the book . Could be hospitalisation, but invariably used when someone had 'jumped'


I got a VNC when I missed the Anchises in Avonmouth. I was stuck in a doctor's surgery with a bad case of tonsilitis. When I got back there was the Anchises leaving the lock heading for Birkenhead. I jumped a train and got there before her. 
I got a dressing down from Mr Greenwood in Odyssey works, but that was the end of the matter, and I sailed in my next Bluey a couple of weeks later, after I had my tonsils out.(Thumb)


----------



## Pam Turner

What's a D R??


----------



## Pat Kennedy

Pam Turner said:


> What's a D R??


It is an entry in a seaman's discharge book, meaning, "Decline to report"
The discharge book had two columns where the captain entered his report of the seaman's character, first on ability and second on general conduct. Usually the reports were "Very Good, Very Good"
Sometimes a bad guy would get a DR for one of these categories, and a real bad guy would get a "Double DR" It always led to getting sacked from the ship, and the company, and sometimes getting drummed out of the Merchant Navy.(EEK)


----------



## William Clark8

*Dr*



Pam Turner said:


> What's a D R??


Decline to Report


----------



## trotterdotpom

Pam Turner said:


> What's a D R??


"Decline to Report". A "Double DR" was a "DR" for Conduct and Ability. A "DR" was bad.
Eventually new Discharge Books were issued that didn't have the Conduct and Ability columns.

John T


----------



## george e mitchell

My first trip to Australia was 1962, it was a five month trip. nearing the end of the voyage entering the English channel bound for London, It was referred to as the channels as most of us young engineers were excited at the thought of only one watch to go and we would be signing off and on our way home to our family and maybe a girl who was waiting for you. After 10 years it was the same every voyage. except the girl was a wife and the family was my own.
I have a friend now and she asked me why I always talk and write about ships and merchant navy, I tell her the merchant navy was a way of life, fantastic
memories of people and places all over New Zealand and Australia. I don't think we will see the likes again, a different era.The box boats destroyed that.
After the demise of Shaw Saill 1971 I went on the north sea oil rigs, for 33 years
that was only a job. Week on week off. Never had the channels again.
All the best to you all. George


----------



## slick

All,
"Channels" sounds a bit like A.D.H.D. to me well that's what we would probably call today....

Yours aye,

slick


----------



## george e mitchell

Hi Slick. I'm possibly old fashioned now but what does the initial A,D,H,D stand for.


----------



## Ron Stringer

george e mitchell said:


> Hi Slick. I'm possibly old fashioned now but what does the initial A,D,H,D stand for.



Have a look at this link http://www.nhs.uk/conditions/Attention-deficit-hyperactivity-disorder/Pages/Introduction.aspx


----------



## george e mitchell

Hi Ron, thanks for your reply. I would never had made the link between
The channels, (Being excited at being on the home stretch, and a sense of achievement , after a 5 month trip of about 28000 miles. and a lot of hard work, Knowing you would be on your way home within hours of docking to see your loved ones )
Reading , Attention Deficit Hyperactive Disorder , Sounds like a mental disorder,
but as you say today a Shrink would have a name for everything that sane people cannot fathom why.
all the best. George


----------



## Mad Landsman

There is a school of thought that ADHD is that which was previously referred to as 'Naughty child syndrome'. 
The medical profession have named it and then worked backwards to find causes, reasons and, probably most controversially, justification for using medication. 

In the case of 'The Channels' - If today it was as widespread as it once was, I have no doubt that it would be given a fancy name and some form of medication prescribed to treat it.


----------



## John Dryden

I think the medication prescribed for the channels was called a docking bottle(Jester)


----------



## Pat Kennedy

makko said:


> Agreed Tom. My mother still uses the term (and she is eighty). "Here, I'lll mug you a beer!". In other words, I will give you the money. And she is as pure Wallasey as you can get! My Nan was born in the Stone Cottages in Wallasey Village. Pat can comment on the relevance of this!
> Rgds.
> Dave


I know the Stone Cottages Dave, at the top of Beechwood Avenue, I'm not sure if they are still there, it is a good while since I was in that area. Apparently they were built around 1840.
My dad was of the same era as your Nan, born and bred in Windsor St, and he used the term in the same way.
Pat(Thumb)


----------



## TonyAllen

Pat Kennedy said:


> I know the Stone Cottages Dave, at the top of Beechwood Avenue, I'm not sure if they are still there, it is a good while since I was in that area. Apparently they were built around 1840.
> My dad was of the same era as your Nan, born and bred in Windsor St, and he used the term in the same way.
> Pat(Thumb)


hi pat my lad lived in Windsor st until he came to look after me


----------



## chris8527

Chillytoes said:


> One good source of salty talk is “All Hands And the Cook” by Barry Thompson. The sub-title is ‘The customs and language of the British Merchant Seaman 1875-1975’. It’s bit hard to get now, however, and doesn’t have some of the more fruity terms quoted above!


I purchased a copy from Amazon today. If anyone wants it after I have received and read it, PM me.


----------



## trotterdotpom

John Dryden said:


> I think the medication prescribed for the channels was called a docking bottle(Jester)


I like it!

John T


----------



## Freo

Haven't heard "Dreadnought" mentioned as yet. The only time I saw one was on my first trip as a J/E on the Argyllshire. It was tucked away in a drawer. As our Billy would say, it's supposed to prevent "diseases of the willy"


----------



## davidrwarwick

Pat Kennedy and Makko the Stone Cottages are still there as I passed them the other week. Here's a screenshot from Google Earth:-


----------



## Pat Kennedy

davidrwarwick said:


> Pat Kennedy and Makko the Stone Cottages are still there as I passed them the other week. Here's a screenshot from Google Earth:-


Yes that's them, and they look in good nick as well.
There is another "Stone Cottages" in Wallasey, at the Liscard end of Manor Rd adjacent to where the old fire station was. They were built in the 19th century as homes for the firemen and their families.
regards, 
Pat(Pint)


----------



## Pat Kennedy

TonyAllen said:


> hi pat my lad lived in Windsor st until he came to look after me


It's a small world Tony. Maybe they knew each other, sadly we will never know.
My old man used to drink in the Clarence in Albion St when he was a young man, and a few years ago I met some old codgers in there who remembered him with affection.
Best regards
Pat(Pint)


----------



## TonyAllen

Pat Kennedy said:


> It's a small world Tony. Maybe they knew each other, sadly we will never know.
> My old man used to drink in the Clarence in Albion St when he was a young man, and a few years ago I met some old codgers in there who remembered him with affection.
> Best regards
> Pat(Pint)


they do say the you can be connected to one in every 6 th person somehow you know some one that does, cheers pat.


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## jmcg

No mention of oft first tripper Cherry Boy. I was one of those.

BW

J(Gleam)(Gleam)


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## Farmer John

TonyAllen said:


> they do say the you can be connected to one in every 6 th person somehow you know some one that does, cheers pat.


I believe there are only about 100 people in the world, the rest are just fill in to make it seem real.


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## Michael Taylor

I have asked successfully for answers before on terminology used in whaleship logbooks which we are transcribing at the Whaling Museum here in New Bedford Massachusetts.
This time the Master has used the term "by the compass". Seems in my day an officer told the QM to steer by the compass meaning to keep to the course but in the 1800's could it have another meaning. It is used a number of times in the particular log book.


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## IAN M

EXTRACTED FROM MY BOOK, OUTWARD BOUND.

On 31st March and 1st April, 1947, what were described as 'the most far-reaching series of agreements ever negotiated by the National Maritime Board on behalf of shipmasters, officers and ratings and shipowners' came into effect. The £10 a month (£5 for those under 18) War Risk Money was incorporated into wages and wages were improved. But, for the majority of merchant seamen, the improved conditions of service were of greater importance. When the Merchant Navy Reserve Pool, a wartime arrangement financed by the taxpayer, ended on 31st March, an Established Service Scheme, offering two-year contracts, came into operation and this gave seamen continuity and security in employment. And leave, or payment in lieu, was given for Sundays spent at sea. 

EXTRACTED FROM MY BOOK, LAST VOYAGE AND BEYOND. (It was January 1951 and I was about to sail for Australia on the Deucalion.

Calverley (the clerk who dealt with Alfred Holt's radio officers) asked me to renew my two-year contract with the Company under the Merchant Navy Established Service Scheme, but I refused on the grounds that I did not intend remaining at sea for that length of time. He tried to persuade me by saying it benefited the Company and that I would be released whenever I wished. But, considering that I could be held by the contract, I remained adamant and he wasn't pleased.


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## trotterdotpom

jmcg said:


> No mention of oft first tripper Cherry Boy. I was one of those.
> 
> BW
> 
> J(Gleam)(Gleam)


I bet it was worth waiting for too!

John T


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## howardang

Michael Taylor said:


> I have asked successfully for answers before on terminology used in whaleship logbooks which we are transcribing at the Whaling Museum here in New Bedford Massachusetts.
> This time the Master has used the term "by the compass". Seems in my day an officer told the QM to steer by the compass meaning to keep to the course but in the 1800's could it have another meaning. It is used a number of times in the particular log book.


It could be an alternative order to differentiate from "Sailing by the wind" - i.e. keeping an accurate course by compass instead of keeping at a constant angle to the wind.

Howard


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## Michael Taylor

Thanks Howard...certainly "fits" with the idea.


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## Mactaf

Barrie Youde said:


> #24
> 
> Hi, Pat,
> 
> I agree. Everything depends upon the context in which any of the expressions are used.
> 
> To run could also mean to sail with the wind from astern.
> 
> No doubt there are other meanings, too.
> 
> ps. I never did know the difference between an established rating and an unestablished rating. Presumably this meant proof of at least some sea-time and/or other qualifications. If so, what were the relevant requirements?


Response to above..An established rating was one who on his leave expiring received what was termed as "Pool Pay" = a small weekly retainer from the Merchant Navy Establishment = "The Pool" which equated approximately to 30% of their very basic wage or less..Those in receipt of such monies would be shipped out ASAP as these payments came from the pot of the Shipowners = The British Shipping Federation..Whereas the unestablished rating would receive no such retainer & had a more relaxed & casual relationship once his leave had expired..With no pressure to ship out so to speak, as opposed to his Established counterpart who was in weekly receipt of funds. Both examples would have had to be members of the National Union Of Seaman as part of the closed-shop & joint supply agreement with the Brittish Shipping Federation..Whilst on articles I can't see any reason why there would be a difference to their terms & conditions.


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## BobClay

'Bag off.' Has that been mentioned ? ... although personally I was always into libraries, museums and culture and stuff. (Smoke)


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## Dave McGouldrick

BobClay said:


> 'Bag off.' Has that been mentioned ? ... although personally I was always into libraries, museums and culture and stuff. (Smoke)


I bet your Handbook was well-thumbed Bob


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## BobClay

I always took my Handbook ashore with me, in case the library wasn't very good. (POP)


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## KIBerry

*Ringbolt*



trotterdotpom said:


> A downstairs perk, Makko! I used the term not so long ago and it seemed that quite a few folk didn't understand it.
> 
> John T


Ringbolt was a term used on the Aussie coast for somebody who was hitching a ride on a ship that they were not official crew of. I used to ringbolt across Bass Strait on the Brambles ships. Things have tightened up these days and ringbolting is a thing of the past.


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## KIBerry

tom roberts said:


> How many of us had The Channels.?


As an Aussie in Blue Flu it was funny watching the Poms get the channels as we crossed the Bay homeward hound.


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## BobClay

On big tanker runs from Europe to the Gulf via the Cape of Good hope I used to get the channels passing Capetown. (Jester)


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## Laurie Ridyard

BobClay said:


> On big tanker runs from Europe to the Gulf via the Cape of Good hope I used to get the channels passing Capetown. (Jester)


The Channels start when leaving the final port on a home run, and last up to six weeks ! They stops when having to go to anchor whilst waiting for a berth ! when 

I always remember when I was an apprentice in Fremantle, I had heard a record by Johnny and the Hurricanes on a jukebox, and just as we came off stations on leaving, it came on the radio as we met the open sea swell. 

The contrarhymthes of that record always remind me of a rolling sea !






Laurie


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## Pat Kennedy

I always got 'The Channels' when returning to Liverpool from a voyage, and sailing north up the Irish sea, various familiar lights would come into view. It was pure bliss to be on lookout on the focsle in the early hours and see the loom of a light first from Tuskar, then Bardsey on the Starboard bow, followed later by South Stack, The Skerries and Point Lynas.


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## TonyAllen

Pat Kennedy said:


> I always got 'The Channels' when returning to Liverpool from a voyage, and sailing north up the Irish sea, various familiar lights would come into view. it was pure bliss to be on lookout on the focsle in the early hours and see the loom of a light first from Tuskar, then Bardsey on the Starboard bow, followed later by South Stack, The Skerries and Point Lynas.


lovely post pat in the galley we were the same knowing we probley had done the last meal .and as soon as we docked the Chinese coasting crew would be aboard.chanels of course started just after gib cheers keep well tony


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## Pat Kennedy

TonyAllen said:


> lovely post pat in the galley we were the same knowing we probley had done the last meal .and as soon as we docked the Chinese coasting crew would be aboard.chanels of course started just after gib cheers keep well tony


Tony, 
When I was a peggy in Blue Flue, there was a long established tradition that after the last meal on board, (it usually seemed to be breakfast, while heading inwards in Formby Channel) instead of washing up, the peggy would gather up all the plates and cutlery and pitch the lot over the wall.
I did this at least four times and saw it happen very often since. I guess if the Channel was dredged there would be a tons of BF tableware and fighting irons recovered.
Regards, 
Pat(Thumb)


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## holland25

Landsend Radio getting stronger everyday,then Ilfracombe, and eventually Seaforth and final Traffic Report and shutdown. The seagulls in the Irish Sea and the derricks rigged for cargo working. Going into London was never quite the same,though a good second best,Niton and North Foreland Radios never had the same welcoming feel as Seaforth,when it was a Seaforth.


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## Farmer John

On a Glen boat (Glenogle), docking in London, all the chaos of the Channel to deal with.


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