# Signing On



## Burntisland Ship Yard (Aug 2, 2008)

After all my years at sea and ashore, never thought to find out...

Who signs the "old man" on / off a ship?


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## michaelF (May 27, 2007)

Burntisland Ship Yard said:


> After all my years at sea and ashore, never thought to find out...
> 
> Who signs the "old man" on / off a ship?


I always used to sign myself on/off

This thread is sure to cause opposite opinions.

mike


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## Burntisland Ship Yard (Aug 2, 2008)

michaelF said:


> I always used to sign myself on/off
> 
> This thread is sure to cause opposite opinions.
> 
> mike


Cheers Mile, have I opened a can...


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## Binnacle (Jul 22, 2005)

When crew sign on they are signing an agreement with the master (as the owner's representative}. As master I never signed on to sail with myself. A master has no need for a discharge book when articles are opened. My discharge book only shows entries prior to sailing as master. This refers to agreement under the British Merchant Shipping Acts. I have known masters who entered dates and ships in their dis. book but only as a personal record, no signature is obviously required. The crew can prosecute the master if the crew agreement is breached. On British ships a new master's name is entered into the ship's Certificate of Registry often at the Custom House.


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## ninabaker (May 4, 2012)

When I signed on my first ship after getting my 2nd mate's ticket, all the old man said was "I want it strictly understood there will be no sex on my ship"! I was stunned and couldnt think of a good answer to that one - except he was of course deluded if he thought the mere presence of the company's firs female officer was the one thing waiting to trigger sex on board ship for the first time.


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## Duncan112 (Dec 28, 2006)

Binnacle said:


> When crew sign on they are signing an agreement with the master (as the owner's representative}. As master I never signed on to sail with myself. A master has no need for a discharge book when articles are opened. My discharge book only shows entries prior to sailing as master. This refers to agreement under the British Merchant Shipping Acts. I have known masters who entered dates and ships in their dis. book but only as a personal record, no signature is obviously required. The crew can prosecute the master if the crew agreement is breached. On British ships a new master's name is entered into the ship's Certificate of Registry often at the Custom House.


Thought the practise of entering the Master on the Register ceased about 1990 - Sailed with a lot of Masters that had either the R/O or Purser endorse their Discharge Book. Agree entirely that it was a matter of personal record as entering into an agreement with oneself is a legal fiction (unless you're a MP and renting!!)


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## Ray Mac (Sep 22, 2007)

Sailed on a supply vessel registered in Belize,They do not have ships articles so no one signed on, just name and rank entered in log book.

Ray


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## Binnacle (Jul 22, 2005)

Duncan112 said:


> Thought the practise of entering the Master on the Register ceased about 1990 - Sailed with a lot of Masters that had either the R/O or Purser endorse their Discharge Book. Agree entirely that it was a matter of personal record as entering into an agreement with oneself is a legal fiction (unless you're a MP and renting!!)


You are perfectly correct Duncan, after I posted I realised that 36 years have elapsed since I sailed on merchant ships and 22 years since I was put out to grass. There should perhaps be a geriatric icon available for such as I . Things were improving as regards procedure before I left, no longer necessary to attend the MMO to open or close crew engagements etc. Some of it was crazy, berthed at Greenhithe, it was necessary to trail all the way up to the city of London custom house to "report", when Gravesend was much nearer. But the agent reckoned our berth was within the City of London district. All this jazz after you have had little sleep. However I think perhaps some seamen nowadays may prefer the old safeguards under the MSA to some contracts they now sign.


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## Dickyboy (May 18, 2009)

I was talking to a retired ships master a few months ago, and he told me that The Master isn't a member of the crew, nor does he sign articles, as said earlier he is/was the companies rep on board. As such I assume he is an independent arbiter on board, answerable only to the company as far as running the ship was concerned. He of course had a duty of care to the ship and its crew. Hence his independence from everyone else on board. Something like that anyway....


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## randcmackenzie (Aug 31, 2005)

Binnacle is right in #8, but I think the change came in 1972 with the issue of the new Discharge Books and other changes to the Shipping Acts.

Before then the crew signed an agreement with the Master, after that the agreement was with the Company. The Master also signed on and off the articles, with an entry in the Official Log Book on the change in command.

The onsigning master would usually endorse the outgoing master's signing off.

A Discharge Book entry was up to the master concerned, but most used it as a personal record for tax and other purposes.


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