# Tramp coal steamer Clan Stuart II



## CarlW (May 26, 2013)

Hi all 

I have just joined the forum and was wondering if anyone could assist my son and myself with a volunteer do***entary were are doing concerning the background and any othe info of the Tramp coal steamer the Clan Stuart II, other than what is commonly available on the internet. Unfortunately we do nove a budget, so all we can offer is acknowledgement of the source of the information and a copy of the final product perhaps. 

The unfortunate ships ran aground in False Bay South Africa in Novemebr 1914 and alony some snippits in the local Simon's Town museam are available. 

We have already undertaken many dives on the wreck to familiarise ourselves with it. Recently a comercial company kindly undertook a multibeam bathymetric survey of the site. Our script is at an advanced stage and we are currently busy with the storyboard process.

We are keen to get:

1. Any archive footage
2. Stories of the ship
3. Ships plan drawings
4. Related ship info that we could utilise in the story

Any asssitsance or further leads would be most welcome


----------



## Pompeyfan (Aug 9, 2005)

On behalf of the 'SN Moderating Team', welcome aboard CarlW.

I have moved your thread to here where you are more like to receive replies. Good luck.


----------



## hawkey01 (Mar 15, 2006)

Carlw,

welcome to SN. Good luck with your research.

Hawkey01


----------



## BillH (Oct 10, 2007)

Not sure where the II comes from but I believe the following to be the vessel.

She was the second vessel of the name in the company fleet so perhaps what is meant by the II which was not part of her namee

CLAN STUART (1900 - 1914) "turretdeck" type steamer.
O.N. 113911. 3,494gross tons. 2,285nett tons. 
355.0 x 45.6 x 24.7 feet and tenths of feet .
riple expansion 3-Cyl. (25½", 42"& 69"x 48") engine made by the shipbuilder. 330 Nominal Horse Power.
8.9.1900: Launched by Wm. Doxford & Sons, Sunderland (Yard No. 280), for The Clan Line Steamers Ltd., (Cayzer, Irvine & Company, managers). 
10.1900: Completed. 
1900: Sold to Sir Charles W Cayzer, David Rennie and James MacKenzie, (same managers). 
1.7.1907: Managers restyled as Cayzer, Irvine & Company Ltd. 
1913: Sold to The Clan Line Steamers Ltd, (same managers). 
3.8.1914 until 21.11.1914: Collier Transport. 
21.11.1914: Whilst on a voyage from U.K. to Cape Town, wrecked at Simons Bay, Cape Colony, S. Africa.


----------



## CarlW (May 26, 2013)

*Thanks for info*

Hi Bill and others

What a neat forum, and thanks for the welcome notes.

Thanks also for the update, some of the info you provided certainly added to my list of facts. Yes you are correct the II is from the fact she was the second vessel, or so my sources show. It is helpful to now know that the II was indeed not part of her namee. 

Really hoping someone can build on this for us since our info is quite sketchy or uncertain concerning which port exactly she came from on her final fatelful voyage and whether she was collecting or delivering coal to Simon's Town. Although one account was that she was 'light'.

The other bit of missing info is where the ships bell is today?

No drawings or photos appear to published or available on when the ships broke apart and sank.

We do however have a sinficant amount of info to have developed the script.

Really hoping the SN forum will shed more 'material'


----------



## Hugh MacLean (Nov 18, 2005)

CarlW said:


> Really hoping someone can build on this for us since our info is quite sketchy or uncertain concerning which port exactly she came from on her final fatelful voyage and whether she was collecting or delivering coal to Simon's Town. Although one account was that she was 'light'.


Hello Carl and welcome,
CLAN STUART was carrying a cargo of coal from Walfisch Bay to Simonstown.

Regards
Hugh


----------



## Cisco (Jan 29, 2007)

Some more info here http://www.wrecksite.eu/wreck.aspx?58807... seems she dragged anchor in a SE gale.

Her last port was Walvis Bay but I think it would be a coal cargo ex UK. Given the date and the port I would suggest that it was an Admiralty cargo as Simonstown wasn't a normal port of call for Clan Line.

She was one of a considerable class of Clan Line turret steamers.... there should be quite a bit of info out there, plans etc, on her and her sisters even if not specificaly about her.
Good luck with your research.


----------



## Cisco (Jan 29, 2007)

Some Clan Line turrets here.... http://www.shipsnostalgia.com/gallery/search.php?searchid=1429000


----------



## Chris Isaac (Jul 29, 2006)

Try here:
http://www.bandcstaffregister.co.uk/page558.html


----------



## CarlW (May 26, 2013)

*Clan Stuart 1, 2 an 3*

Well now its been confirmed, the ships we are looking at is Clan Stuart number 2 of 3 thanks to the website kindly recommended by Chris Isaac. The attached image was also found on that site and is the best one we have been able to get so far. Can anyone perhaps translate the french or indicate where we could get the original maybe?


----------



## CarlW (May 26, 2013)

*Sister ships?*

Thanks Cisco, this is the first I hear of sister ships of the Clan Stuart, is it possible that you may have a list of them or direct me to a site?

Much appreciated. If we could lay our hands on such plans then a rough model for our do***entary is an option worth considering.


----------



## Cisco (Jan 29, 2007)

Some more info in an SN thread last year, seems there may be a model of a Clan Line one at Durban University, http://www.shipsnostalgia.com/showthread.php?t=43772

There was also a World Ship Society book about turret ships which you may be able to find.

Because they were a very distinctive type there is a lot of information available on the internet about them.


----------



## CarlW (May 26, 2013)

Can one assume that a sister ship is one with the same dimensions? Or are there other criteria?


----------



## Cisco (Jan 29, 2007)

Beware the bold assumption!

Other Clan Line turrets of the same tonnage built at or near the same time probably were nearly identical sister ships with only very slight differences. 

However if you look at the Clan Line ships built through the 1950s , the 'S', 'M' and 'R' classes together with the slightly earlier MacTaggart and MacTavish on paper they may all look like sisters at first glance. However while all had the same beam (66') and the lengths were very similar ( between 503 and 513 feet) they varied considerably both in appearance, cargo gear, and engines ( motor, steam turbine and twin screw steam turbine) .
So as you can see some care has to be exercised.

There is another Clan Line turret ship wrecked in South Australian waters and you may find some interesting information here... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_Clan_Ranald_(1900)
Cheers


----------



## Chris Isaac (Jul 29, 2006)

Details of the wreck of Clan Ranald can be found here:
http://www.bandcstaffregister.co.uk/page550.html
Cheers


----------



## Bob Murdoch (Dec 11, 2004)

Hi,
Clan Stuart was a Batch 3 Turret ship.
From the book"Clan Line" ISBN 978 1 901703 47 4 published 2007 by Amadeus Press, I can confirm that she was carrying an Admiralty cargo of coal for Simonstown in November 1914 when she went aground. The prospects of refloating was good, but in April, 1915 a heavy swell further damaged her and the refloating was abandoned. There are three photographs of her in the book, including one of her high and dry (almost). In that one her funnel colours had been painted out.
There were six different batches of tunnel ships. From my counting, thirty ships in total plus two which were bare boat chartered from Doxford. At the end of the two year charter, they were purchased by Clan Line but were 'non standard' to the others and were sold on very quickly to Ritsons of Sunderland.
Hope this helps a wee bit. Clan Line attempted to get some of the loss from the Admiralty, fat chance.
Cheers Bob


----------



## CarlW (May 26, 2013)

Thanks Cisco and Bob
Sister ship dimensions will be considered with caution. The link to the Clan Ranald was interesting.

Thanks Bob, you certainly shed a little more light on the grounding etc. I did a brief internet search of the book you mentioned, but no luck, so will try our local library for a possible inter-library loan.

Great info.


----------



## BillH (Oct 10, 2007)

Bob Murdoch said:


> Hi,
> Clan Stuart was a Batch 3 Turret ship.
> From the book"Clan Line" ISBN 978 1 901703 47 4 published 2007 by Amadeus Press,


I think you will find that Amadeus Press was the printer and the book was actually published by Ships In Focus Publications.


----------



## Roger Griffiths (Feb 10, 2006)

The last logbooks of the vessel CLAN STUART (2) official number 113911 are lodged with the British National Archives. These may or may not give you the facts regarding her grounding and subsequent total loss.
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/SearchUI/Details?uri=C2480464

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/SearchUI/Details?uri=C2480365

Also her registration do***ents. These may tell you if any compensation was obtained from the Admiralty. As already stated there seems little chance of this eventuality.
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/SearchUI/Details?uri=C10236224

regards
Roger


----------



## Bob Murdoch (Dec 11, 2004)

BillH said:


> I think you will find that Amadeus Press was the printer and the book was actually published by Ships In Focus Publications.


Sorry, you are of course quite correct. Should not try to balance book and tab on knees and enter info at same time. (Scribe)
(Scribe)
Cheers Bob


----------



## CarlW (May 26, 2013)

Well the info is starting to grow now. So little is known, published and available in our part of the world. 

Thanks for the lead to the national archive Roger, I had a look but it appear the info is only available as originals for ordering of a copy, but no detail of what would be in the copy is provided. Will it be the ships original logbook do you think?


----------



## andysk (Jun 16, 2005)

CarlW said:


> Well now its been confirmed, the ships we are looking at is Clan Stuart number 2 of 3 thanks to the website kindly recommended by Chris Isaac. The attached image was also found on that site and is the best one we have been able to get so far. Can anyone perhaps translate the french or indicate where we could get the original maybe?


It's a cracking pic this, I've not seen it before. The text in French reads "Entering port, the English steamer Clan Stuart"
Perhaps Chris Isaac can help us with the original postcard ?
Hope this helps ...
Andy


----------



## Roger Griffiths (Feb 10, 2006)

CarlW said:


> Well the info is starting to grow now. So little is known, published and available in our part of the world.
> 
> Thanks for the lead to the national archive Roger, I had a look but it appear the info is only available as originals for ordering of a copy, but no detail of what would be in the copy is provided. Will it be the ships original logbook do you think?


Files at TNA are like a box of chocolates, you never know whats in there until you look.
Given the cir***stances of the grounding it could well be the original logbook but like I say you will not know until you look. Ask TNA for a quote, be sure to ask for the narritive pages of the last logbook of the CLAN STUART official number 113911. See what they quote, if it's prohibative let me know and I will try and take a look next time I visit Kew.

regards
Roger


----------



## andysk (Jun 16, 2005)

Chris Isaac said:


> Details of the wreck of Clan Ranald can be found here:
> http://www.bandcstaffregister.co.uk/page550.html
> Cheers


And here : http://www.southaustralianhistory.com.au/clanranald.htm


----------



## CarlW (May 26, 2013)

Thanks so much for the advice Roger,I will try the quote option first as recomended. Also checked at out our local library today and the book mentioned earlier but it is not available as an inter-library loan, so will need look at purchasing it. 

It was a big day for our project yesterday, we finished processing the first-ever multibeam bathymetric survey data of the wreck site and georeferncing it on a GIS mapping system.


----------



## CarlW (May 26, 2013)

Our early work on our do***entary is progressing well, with 'buy-in' from 3 martime archeological organisations in South Africa, or at least verbal indications of future support. Incl the ref we were searching for.

The lead from Rodger re the National Archives has been folloed up and a reply awaited.

On a related topic

We are planning a centenary event of the wrecking of the ship during Nov 2014, any ideas, funders, aupporters or leads out there? One option was to contact the "Stuart" clan and drum up some support from them for a special visit at that time (perhaps even bagpipes and all). Thoughts, leads or suggestions most welcome since we will need to raise some funds for this too.


----------

