# Bigger Cruise Ships May Not Be Better



## dom (Feb 10, 2006)

according to reports,shi builders are capable of building cruise ships even larger than the planed 6,000 passenger genesis vessel.but whether passengers and ports are ready for future behemoths is another question.the hugh ships of the future will be to big for many ports,and will require passengers to be shuttled by boats to and from vessels.the largest cruise ship today has 1,816 cabins the genesis ship will have 2,700 cabins,check in times have doubled or trebled and could take even longer


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## benjidog (Oct 27, 2005)

Dom,

I think they could speed up the loading by adopting a modification of a scheme they are thinking about for aeroplanes - standing up places instead of seats.

All you need to do is have some specially made containers, load the passengers and their luggage in port and hoist them aboard in no time. The containers can be decanted whilst under way with those paying the highest prices being let out first. (LOL) 

I have no answer for getting in to port though. 

Brian


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## John Rogers (May 11, 2004)

The biggest drawback is in the processing in, Passports,Credit Cards,Immigration then security and then luggage,not forgetting the picture taking for the security badge for going ashore. The more passengers capacity the longer the line and the wait.
John


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## dom (Feb 10, 2006)

*dom*

the report stated up to six hours in some cases


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## John Rogers (May 11, 2004)

It took about two hours last year in Miami for a 1400 pass voyage,this week she is a little larger, 1800 pass,but a different port. Will see how long it takes and report back.
John


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## dom (Feb 10, 2006)

*dom*

what about the pride of america and pride of hawaii over on the west coast,they are american crewed are'nt they,whats the difference to the east coast,do they have a number of u.s. nationals on board


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## dom (Feb 10, 2006)

*dom*



dom said:


> the report stated up to six hours in some cases


 boarding passengers will be easy enough,but questions arise about whether cruise lines can successfully evacuate the freedom and other ships in emergencies.cruise lines don't have to prove they can get every passenger off ships within a set time. few testshave been done to see what happens when passengers or stand ins are lowerd in lifeboats
one realistic test took place in england, british authorities evacuated723 passengers and 119 crew from the ferry stena invicta,but the exercise took 65 min.well beyond the I.MO standard of30min.for such ships
but the sheer number of passengers raises new issues, on the fire scarred star princess it was three hours befor crews could verify the names of all 2,690 passengers after they had reported to their muster stations.
are all crew members english speaking seeing that most cruise ships sail from u.s.a. ports


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## Santos (Mar 16, 2005)

*Big Cruise Ships may not be better*

Wouldnt like it myself. Would be a bit like having a holiday in the middle of a city and commuting to places of interest in the rush hour. To crowded, to busy, to noisey, too much.

Chris.


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## Frank P (Mar 13, 2005)

Santos said:


> Wouldnt like it myself. Would be a bit like having a holiday in the middle of a city and commuting to places of interest in the rush hour. To crowded, to busy, to noisey, too much.
> 
> Chris.


Santos, 
I could not agree with you more. I could think of alot of better places to take a holiday.

Frank


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## Alan Hill (Jun 21, 2005)

You know with all of the limitations/negatives that have been listed above, all totally true, what are we sailors and cruisers missing in relation to the cruise lines? I mean it is almost like they are totally ignoring the negatives. 6000 passengers anchored out in St Thomas, give me a break! Alan Hill Bridgeport, Pa. USA


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## Pompeyfan (Aug 9, 2005)

Just booked up on Navigator of the Seas next April on her first visit to Southampton. She is joining Legend of the Seas cruising from Southampton. At 138,000 tons she is certainly the biggest ship I have ever sailed on, twice the size of Oriana which I will be on in a weeks time, the same as last year. So I will let you know what it is like with so many passengers. Navigator of the Seas has 3,114 passengers as opposed to Oriana's 1,822. When I sailed as crew my biggest ship was Canberra at 45,000 and smallest ship Arcadia at 29,000 and not forgetting the even smaller Northern Star when a passenger. So my trip on Navigator of the Seas will be very interesting indeed. But goodness knows what it will be like when ships carry 6,000 passengers?!. David


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## dom (Feb 10, 2006)

*dom*

apart from the passenger no.s the rock climbing and ice skating rink,i see that the f.o.s. has two hot tubs that are cantilevered out 12ft from the sides of the ship,and the musica which makes her maiden trip in the med.with 3013 pass.has a 1300sq.ft foot spa.


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## fred henderson (Jun 13, 2005)

*Giant Cruise Ships*

We are at an interesting point in the development of the cruise industry. Carnival is the industry leader with about 52.5% of the world market. Royal Caribbean is second with about 25%. Star is third with about 12.5%. That leaves about 10% to be shared by over 60 smaller companies. In my view the future for the small companies is bleak and Star is having a hard time. 
Royal Caribbean cannot catch Carnival by building standard-size 110,000 grt ships, so it has decided to fight for its market share by building the biggest passenger ships in the world. Like many SN members, Carnival is not yet sure that these giants are a sound investment. 
Royal Caribbean is moving towards the philosophy that the ship itself is the cruise passengers’ destination. This is why so many on board activities are provided. Yes there are the logistical problems at Miami to overcome but after that it is hoped that most passengers will remain on board for the week. This is not the conventional approach to cruising today, but it is what happens on the Cunard Transatlantic voyages.

Fred


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## Keltic Star (Jan 21, 2006)

fred henderson said:


> ...
> Royal Caribbean is moving towards the philosophy that the ship itself is the cruise passengers’ destination. This is why so many on board activities are provided. Yes there are the logistical problems at Miami to overcome but after that it is hoped that most passengers will remain on board for the week. This is not the conventional approach to cruising today, but it is what happens on the Cunard Transatlantic voyages.
> 
> Fred


I can understand the ship being the destination in the Caribbean, how many straw markets do you want to visit? Don't think it would work in the Med whose ports have so much to offer inj history, culture and entertainment and where four thousand extra tourists per day won't stain the infrastucture or environment. But I wonder if this concept for a cruise ship will be sound in the long run. 

All it becomes is an all inclusive floating theme park. For a lot less capital and operational investment, one could establish a land based operation with similar facilities and entertainment, the Atlantis Resort in Nassau comes to mind. Creating Disneyland at sea hasn't been the greatest success for the Micky Mouse boats. 

I also don't think that keeping the bloods onboard is going to increase the passenger spend significantly, unlike most of us on SN, there is only so much a punter can drink in a day and the cruise line has lost the 40% mark-up on shore excursion sales.

In my opinion, the trans-Atlantic run is a bit different because the objective is to get from ponit A to B, but for my money, I would prefer the traditional hospitality and entertainment given on the liners of the past. I don't want to be called for rock climbing contests at 0630.


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## fred henderson (Jun 13, 2005)

*Resorts*

Keltic Star raises some interesting points. Of course if we could accurately foretell the financial future, we could greatly enhance our pension pot, but so far, the cruise industry has far outshone land based resorts. The main factor being that cruise ships are mobile assets and can avoid operating in the off-season in any area. 

I am not sure if members appreciate the size and financial concentration of the cruise business today? Very roughly Carnival is about twice the size of Royal Caribbean, which in turn is about twice the size of Star. If you combine all of the figures for the remaining 60 or so cruise companies, the resultant total is about the same as Star on its own.

Carnival has 12 distinct brands, operating 80 passenger ships with a total of 139,000 lower berths. The group have a further 15 passenger ships on order. Carnival is not yet convinced that Royal Caribbean’s Genesis mega-ship makes economic sense. That is significant, because Carnival is a very efficient operator.

In 2005 Carnival generated total revenues of $11 billion, with an operating profit of $2.6 billion (up 23% on 2004). Average occupancy throughout 2005 was 105.6 % of lower berths.

By contrast Disney Corporation, the world’s largest land based resort operator, generated total revenues of $9 billion in its Parks and Resorts Division in 2005. The Division’s operating profit was $1.2 billion, up 5% on 2004. Average room occupancy was 83%. 

Fred


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