# ships carpenter



## pierhead jumper (Jan 4, 2006)

Does anyone know what qualifications were required to sign on as ships carpenter.Shipboard duties seemed to have little to do with a shoreside carpenter/They were classed as petty officers along with bosuns.Duties as I recall involved driving the windlass,taking soundings and hammering in hatch wedges.Must have been classed as a semi-skilled job.PJ.


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## Pat Hughes (Sep 23, 2008)

Carpenters were time served men who acquired the Petty Officer role aboard merchant ships. Their utilization on board was always a mystery to me and apart from the duties you have outlined seemed to do little else.


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## K urgess (Aug 14, 2006)

Bankboats with Indian or Pakistani crews carried a Chinese carpenter on the ones I sailed on.
He was a carpenter. Apart from doing any ship repairs he did all the dunnage work, shifting boards, packing cases etc.
And when the dunnage was finished with he was excellent at building ship's bars and cases for your hifi. [=P]


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## stein (Nov 4, 2006)

On Norwegian boats too he sounded the tanks, saw to it that the hatches were secured, secured the cargo in several ways and operated the anchor winch. 
While we're on that subject, I'd like to ask if there was "reparator" on English ships too, and if so, what did you call him? The Carpenter the Electrician and "the Rep" was a trio of "independents" with us. (I always supposed they were educated in their craft the same way as landbased men with the same jobs.) The "rep" had his own shop in the engine room, and was a qualified welder, able to repair most of what was of metal. (We on deck all had him fashion us a "shackle opener," a bent, very solid screw-driver with a pointed end for eyes, so as to have at least one personal "seamannish" tool.) Regards, Stein.


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## joebuckham (Apr 1, 2005)

the carpenters i sailed with were usually timeserved shipwrights(chippies) their job was, as stein said for norwegian ships, with carpentry and general maintenance, if and when required


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## jimmys (Jan 5, 2007)

*chippies*

The reparator we called a mechanic or fitter.

The old chippies did a fair bit of the plumbing work about the accommodation to help the engineers. He also helped us with deck work or winch repairs.

regards
jimmy


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## stein (Nov 4, 2006)

Thanks Jimmy. Regards, Stein.


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## Pat Kennedy (Apr 14, 2007)

Ships carpenters were, as Joe says, time served shipwrights, and that trade is as much about steel work as it is about wood.
A shipyard trained chippie was skilled in all aspects of building a ship, from the keel upwards, and it could be said he was the most versatile member of the crew.
Pat


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## Bill Davies (Sep 5, 2007)

Pat Kennedy said:


> Ships carpenters were, as Joe says, time served shipwrights, and that trade is as much about steel work as it is about wood.
> A shipyard trained chippie was skilled in all aspects of building a ship, from the keel upwards, and it could be said he was the most versatile member of the crew.
> Pat


Versatile to such a degree that he was probably the first to be made redundant in modern ships.


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## jmcg (Apr 20, 2008)

stein said:


> On Norwegian boats too he sounded the tanks, saw to it that the hatches were secured, secured the cargo in several ways and operated the anchor winch.
> While we're on that subject, I'd like to ask if there was "reparator" on English ships too, and if so, what did you call him? The Carpenter the Electrician and "the Rep" was a trio of "independents" with us. (I always supposed they were educated in their craft the same way as landbased men with the same jobs.) The "rep" had his own shop in the engine room, and was a qualified welder, able to repair most of what was of metal. (We on deck all had him fashion us a "shackle opener," a bent, very solid screw-driver with a pointed end for eyes, so as to have at least one personal "seamannish" tool.) Regards, Stein.



We called the "shackle opener" a spike. It was not "round". No self respecting Blue Funnel chap would be seen with a bent or rounded spike. 

He would have a junior engineer make one one up from a generator v/v. Honed to perfection! It might have a chisled end or it might have a pointed end. Always highly polished. Chromium was best. Still have a few in my chest.



The BF carried Chippy's Mate - known as a "tom-olo" . He would be a Chinese chap.

BW

J.


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## pierhead jumper (Jan 4, 2006)

Thank you all.I beleive that Shipwright answers the question nicely.V ery logical.PJ.


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## slick (Mar 31, 2006)

All,
As has been told Chippies were time served shipwrights, one of whom told me his final task at the end of his seven years (?) was to make a propeller mold !!
Yours aye,
Slick


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## oceangoer (Jan 3, 2008)

Bill Davies said:


> Versatile to such a degree that he was probably the first to be made redundant in modern ships.


When I first went Mate in Bank Line I found the sounding board hadn't been altered for months. The 'old man' (no names no pack drill) told me the carpenter had been laid off and not replaced and soundings were a waste of time anyway, a competent Mate wouldn't need them.
I spent some time (and Scotch) with the Dundee ChEng and we came to a mutually satisfactory arrangement where his lads would do the soundings morning and evening, fill in the sounding board, and I'd guarantee him the ship would be trimmed 1 foot or more by the stern (to give him max. fuel tank drawdown) at all times. My penalty for failure would be a case of Chivas Regal.
ChEng, 2/E and I got on like a house on fire from then on, I never had to pay my penalty and in the subsequent 17 months I never exchanged a "social" word with "God".
Bosun, Lampy, and Chippy were the ties which bound deck crews together, their (generally) older and wiser heads stopped me from getting into the ordure on a number of occasions. Sorry to see 'em go.


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## Chris Isaac (Jul 29, 2006)

In Clan Line with Indian crew the Carpenter had officer status, still dont know what they did other than soundings and drive the windlass, most 1st trip cadets could do that...... well, some 1st trip cadets could do that..... no, a few 1st trip cadets could do that....., no, well that explains why we had chippies!


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## jimmys (Jan 5, 2007)

*Carpenters*

A cargo ship sometimes had six open wooden lifeboats, two with engines in covered boxes. A lot of work on these wooden boats the chippie did all the woodwork. When you went to run engines chippie was always in the boats.

He always had Arkansas oilstones and kept everybodies knife sharp.

No mean task to mould a propeller, the patternmaker only makes the boss pattern and one blade pattern each blade is the same so you move the blade pattern round into each blade position,2,3,4 or 5 times.

Sad to see it all go. I live a bit in the past.

regards
jimmy


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## Bill Davies (Sep 5, 2007)

oceangoer said:


> Bosun, Lampy, and Chippy were the ties which bound deck crews together, their (generally) older and wiser heads stopped me from getting into the ordure on a number of occasions. Sorry to see 'em go.


I think I have said that once or thrice.


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## Derek Roger (Feb 19, 2005)

For Burials at sea it was " Chippy " who had the task of stitching up the canvas and committing to the deep . 

Another task was to make "cement boxes " from time to time .

Regards Derek

As said in earlier threads most were ex "shipwrights " and very skilled .


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## robin (Jun 23, 2005)

Hi,
I was that man,(Thumb) A Petty Officer, Ships Carpenter in the 1960s.
As stated 'Chippies' were trained as Shipwrights, I served a 5 year apprenticeship before joining my first ship, the Union Castle's Warwick Castle as an Assistant Ships Carpenter, one of two working under the Chief P.O Carpenter Sam Grey.
Our days work consisted sounding the ships fresh-water tanks, bilges,ballast-tanks, deep-tanks and fore and aft peaks, reporting our findings before 08.00 to the Chief Officer on the bridge. Checking, greasing and oiling all deck equipement including lifeboat davits, vents watertight doors, gunport-doors etc. Opening and closing of flush-deck hatches usually found on Passenger decks. Clearing scuppers, waste and soil pipes, this was usually done with the dreaded 'Sani-snake'. Taking on fresh water supplies. Opening and closing all Gun-port doors. Lots of plumbing jobs. Operating the anchor windlass for anchoring or when mooring in port. Looking after cargo hatches when covering up with tarpaulings and securing with wedges. Any repairs to ships wooden fittings even making items for the Passengers 'Fancy-Dress' partie's like Britiania's shield and spear !! One odd job I recall was being asked by the Captain on a P.S.N.C ship to construct a very large five pointed star some 15 feet across out of 'dunnage' and covered in white cloth, this was then fitted with lights on all points and one large bulb in the middle and was hoisted up our fore-mast over our Christmas stay in Kingston. 
Chippies were day workers starting at 07.00 and finishing at 16.00 weekdays, half day Saturdays and off apart from soundings on Sundays. This ment that we got lots of overtime on call-outs, in fact I earnt more on one trip than the basic wage of £40 per month(All found). My pay in a shipyard as a Shipwright would have been about £30 per month.

Hope this sheds a little light on this fogotten Rank in the M.N.
Robin (Night)


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## R798780 (Oct 27, 2004)

Chris Isaac said:


> In Clan Line with Indian crew the Carpenter had officer status,
> On Malakand - Brocklebanks - with Indian crew Chippy was the only European non officer. Dave Brewer relished getting showered up and eating in the officers saloon and integrated with everyone with less than three stripes. My next trip on Malakand, Chippy ??? Hibberd was of the old school and aged about 60. He declined to use the saloon but did integrate to a degree.............. I recall the plaster on his head when he did a handstand outside his cabin on the boatdeck to drink a can of beer inverted on Christmas Day transitting the Suez Canal homeward bound. The audience / drinking party was juniors and apprentice. I don't believe he knew why the plaster was there, but had still managed his fo'c'sle standby stint afterwards. Quite a character.


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## andysk (Jun 16, 2005)

Chris Isaac said:


> In Clan Line with Indian crew the Carpenter had officer status, still dont know what they did other than soundings and drive the windlass, most 1st trip cadets could do that...... well, some 1st trip cadets could do that..... no, a few 1st trip cadets could do that....., no, well that explains why we had chippies!


Georgie Hawks on the Macleod in `1971/2 spent quite a lot of time making new hatch boards as well, using an adze, wearing his PPE of course, a pair of wellies with loads of newspaper stuffed down the front in case the blade ran through. He had some pretty impressive scars on his shins ....

And of course rebuilding the bar while at anchor off Madras for .... weeks !


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## Pat Kennedy (Apr 14, 2007)

I recall on one ship I was in, back in the sixties, someone said that there were 2 and only 2 crew members who were essential, and that a deep sea ship was not allowed to sail without them. These were the cook and the carpenter. It appeared that every other crew member was dispensible as there were others on board who could do their job. Does anyone know if this was indeed the case?
Pat


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## andysk (Jun 16, 2005)

Pat Kennedy said:


> I recall on one ship I was in, back in the sixties, someone said that there were 2 and only 2 crew members who were essential, and that a deep sea ship was not allowed to sail without them. These were the cook and the carpenter. It appeared that every other crew member was dispensible as there were others on board who could do their job. Does anyone know if this was indeed the case?
> Pat


On ships over 1600grt, there had to be a Radio Officer's cert (PMG1, 2, General or MRGC) as well. I believe there had also to be the appropriate Master's cert, FG or HT, but am not really qualified to comment on that.


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## pierhead jumper (Jan 4, 2006)

Some ve ry interesting comments here,but I would like to reply to Pat that I was in an old tramp in the 40s when the carpenter paid off sick.We were at least 6 months without one and the old man had the mate driving the windlass etc..That ship never had a full crew.How that skipper got away with it is a mystery.PJ.


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## jimmys (Jan 5, 2007)

*Carpenters*

British Flag Ships

All Masters and Mates are dispensible at the discretion of a qualified Examiner of Masters and Mates.
All Engineers are dispensible at the discretion of a qualified Examiner of Engineers.

The dispensation is called an exemption now. It is still available to the current examiners.

That takes a few away Pat. You could be right???

regards
jimmy


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## Pat Hughes (Sep 23, 2008)

Pat Kennedy said:


> I recall on one ship I was in, back in the sixties, someone said that there were 2 and only 2 crew members who were essential, and that a deep sea ship was not allowed to sail without them. These were the cook and the carpenter. It appeared that every other crew member was dispensible as there were others on board who could do their job. Does anyone know if this was indeed the case?
> Pat


I heard that on several occasions Pat. Strange, but it was always a Cook or a Carpenter I heard it from.
I think a large pinch is needed with that one.[=P]


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## Pat Hughes (Sep 23, 2008)

jimmys said:


> British Flag Ships
> 
> All Masters and Mates are dispensible at the discretion of a *qualified* Examiner of Masters and Mates.
> All Engineers are dispensible at the discretion of a *qualified* Examiner of Engineers.
> ...


jimmys

Your previous came in minutes apart from my last.
Please explain above where I have emboldened. Examiners nowadays do not seem to require the qualification they did say 30 years ago. The requirement for Command /Chiefs experience long gone. Extra's long gone.
Might be the beginning of a new thread.


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## ROBERT HENDERSON (Apr 11, 2008)

ANDYSK
You are correct in that all vessels in the sixties had to have a certificated sparks on board, if the vessel was on Home Trade articles and not carrying passengers that was the only certificate of comptence that had to be carried. The Masters Home Trade was actually termed Master Home Trade Passenger certificate. After the 1984 shipping act all officers had to be certificated, those too lazy to study and sit the exams were granted a certificate of service provided that they had served a year in that capacity.

Regards Robert


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## jimmys (Jan 5, 2007)

*Carpenters*

I think people are mixing up normal crewing levels with the ranks that are dispensible.
When I started at Glasgow Ted Fields was the Examiner M&M and Dan Doyle was the Examiner Eng. There was a trainee under Ted and I was trainee under Dan. The trainee's did a lot of the work and exams. All the trainee's were fully qualified. Masters /Chiefs plus superior qualifications.
Any dispensation or exemption had to be signed by the Representative of the Secretary of State. That was Ted and Dan the Qualified Examiners. They signed on behalf of the GovUK. It was a legal do***ent an exemption from the law as regards to Shipping. Same power as a judge.
The training was very long and difficult, it is not easy to examine Masters and Chiefs and come to a decision that is fair and proper.
The provision is still there for Exemptions. I have used it in my time.

It was only meant as a light hearted answer for chippie and cooks.

regards
jimmy


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## surfaceblow (Jan 16, 2008)

In the States the only required crew is listed on the Certificate of Inspection. The COI list the Master, Chief Mate, Second Mate and a Third Mate, 6 AB's and 3 OS's. On the Engine side Chief Engineer, 1 Assistant, 2 Assistant, 3 Assistant and 3 QMED's or Oilers. 

To sail short of any of the crew listed the Captain would have to write a letter to the US Coast Guard stating the condition of the vessel was such that the missing personnel would not effect the safety of the vessel. If the crew member was in the Engine Department then the Chief Engineer would have to write his own letter to the Coast Guard about the condition of the machinery and automation. 

Sorry but there was never any mention of the cook or chippie.


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## Pat Kennedy (Apr 14, 2007)

Pat Hughes said:


> I heard that on several occasions Pat. Strange, but it was always a Cook or a Carpenter I heard it from.
> I think a large pinch is needed with that one.[=P]


Most things discussed in the messroom needed a pinch of salt, particularly exploits ashore!
Pat


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## K urgess (Aug 14, 2006)

Certificates to be held by Officers of Ships were regulated by section 92 as amended by section 56 of the Merchant Shipping Acts of 1906.
"92. (I) Every British foreign going ship and every British home-trade passenger ship, when going to sea from any place in the United Kingdom, and every foreign steamships carrying passengers between places in the United Kingdom, shall be provided with officers duly certificated under this Act according to the following scale:
(a) In any case with a duly certificated master.
(b) If the ship is of one hundred tons burden or upwards with at least one officer besides the master holding a certificate not lower than that of -
(i) mate in the case of a home-trade passenger ship;
(ii) second mate in the case of a foreign-going sailing ship of not more than two hundred tons burden; and
(iii) only mate in the case of any other foreign-going ship.
(c) If the ship is a foreign-going ship, and carries more than one mate, with at least the first and second mate duly certificated;
(d) If the ship is a foreign-going steamship of one hundred nominal horsepower or upwards, with at least two engineers, one of whom shall be first-class or second-class engineer duly certificated;
(e) If the ship is a foreign-going steamship of less than one hundred nominal horse-power or a sea-going home trade passenger steamship, with at least one engineer who is a first-class or second class engineer duly certificated."

These certificates must be produced before signing on.

"Certificated Cooks. - 27. (I) Every British foreign-going ship of a thousand tons and upwards gross tonnage, going to sea from any place in the British Islands, or on the Continent of Europe between the River Elbe and Brest inclusive, shall be provided with and carry a duly certificated cook, who is able to prove one month's service at sea in some capacity."

The fines for non-compliance was £50 in the case of officers and £25 for not carrying the cook.

No specific mention of Carpenters, Bosuns or rating requirements.

Sparkies were carried under a different set of rules called the Wireless and Telegraphs Acts.


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## jimmys (Jan 5, 2007)

*Carpenters*

The exemption could allow a Mate with a Mates Certificate to sail as master on any ship and a 2/e with seconds Ticket to sail as Chief on any ship. It was the discretion of the Examiner. The vessel was exempt from the Merchant Shipping acts in that Category.

As far as I know there was no provision for cooks exemption. Who was going to give it?? Not me!!

Chippies I dont know.

regards
jimmy


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## TonyAllen (Aug 6, 2008)

Dont know if this is relevant but my eldest brother was a chief cook 1951 somewhere if the south pacific and he and a few of the men had a rather long day ashore one night and ended up in the local hoosegow with the ship ready to sail. The captain paid the local police to let them out because without the cook they could not sail.My brother said it was his only claim to fame Tony Allen


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## Pat Kennedy (Apr 14, 2007)

Well, I sailed in a couple of ships without a cook.
Yes, there was a bloke who dressed up like a cook, and appeared in the galley every day, but cook?.... no they couldnt do that.


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## slick (Mar 31, 2006)

All,
The RFA were fortunate to have had a Carpenter ex- RN who had been the Carpenter on the HMY Britannia, I met him in the Engadine in the late eighties, nothing was ever wasted by him, one snowy winter he made the ship a sled steel runners the lot from the remains of a Bunk bed etc, it still works it's in my garage, could someone help and tell me his name?, John -----, I think.
Thanks in anticipation.
Yours aye,
John Kelly


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## Susan Richmond (Oct 9, 2008)

*Ships' Carpenters*

I was really interested to read all your postings about the work of a ship's carpenter as my ancestor from the Aland Islands who was shipwrecked off the Scottish Hebrides in c.1790 was said to be a ship's turner (carpenter) and many of his descendants in the Western Isles were carpenters until very recently. I was told they used to make spinning wheels.
Obviously the ship's carpenter was quite vital and possibly had some far -ranging tasks. Fascinating!

Regards
Sue


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## K urgess (Aug 14, 2006)

The carpenter on my first trip as a junior sparkie was Archie Boyd whose next job was as a picked chippy for the launching of QE2.
Apparently quite a high honour among chippies.
Needless to say he was from the outer isles.


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## jimmys (Jan 5, 2007)

*Chippies*

When a vessel is nearing launch the chippies move the ship from the building blocks on to the launch cradle so that at the launch it can slip down the way.
The declivity for it to launch is set up by these tradesmen. If it is a stern first launch, as the stern lifts and floats the bow does not hit the slipway. The other way vice versa. Its not so easy

They still carry out this task on slipway builds.

regards
jimmy


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## ROBERT HENDERSON (Apr 11, 2008)

jimmys said:


> When a vessel is nearing launch the chippies move the ship from the building blocks on to the launch cradle so that at the launch it can slip down the way.
> The declivity for it to launch is set up by these tradesmen. If it is a stern first launch, as the stern lifts and floats the bow does not hit the slipway. The other way vice versa. Its not so easy
> 
> They still carry out this task on slipway builds.
> ...


Jimmy
Pardon my ignorance regarding new launchings, doesn't the chippies carry out the knocking out of the chocks for a sideways launching such as places like Selby or is that a different trade?

I remember being near that area when the Astraman was launched sideways, as she was the largest vessel ever built at Selby shipyard there were lots of sightseers, the local press and dignitaries in a field opposite waiting for this momentous occasion. The wave set up as she hit the water was so large it crossed over into the field where all these people were watching, as well as people being bowled over it also overturned cars, oh how I wish I was there instead of seeing it on local television.

Regards Robert


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## jimmys (Jan 5, 2007)

Hi Robert

Same trade same thing, the launch cradles slip the ship sideways into the water. Chippie does it just the same. The ship is built on blocks and transferred on to the cradles. The cradles are held with wedges. The chippies knock them out to launch.

Not much of it around now just yuppie flats.

They made ships steering wheels as well with eight spokes and it was not butts in the centre, but an eight spoked special joint . Worth a lot of money now I dont know who can make that joint nowadays.

regards
jimmy


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## ROBERT HENDERSON (Apr 11, 2008)

Jimmy
Thanks for your reply and explanation.

Regards Robert


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## John Williams 56-65 (Feb 12, 2008)

Mention has been made of the shipwrights [Chippies] being connected to the launch of ships. On Merseyside they were also involved in the dry docking of ships. They took the mooring lines and it was the foreman shipwright who plumbed the ship vertically on the blocks. As the ship settled on the blocks and the water was pumped out ,they were the ones who installed the shores which had to be done fairly precisely as the ship needed to by completely upright because that was the vertical line needed by other trades to make their work fit correctly. The only occasion I can recall when a plumb line was used aboard a ship.
Carpenters at sea also did all sorts of other jobs including my own trade if there was no plumber carried. I had first hand experience of this before I went to sea myself. I was returning to UK as a demob happy serviceman travelling on the troopdecks on the Lancashire. I walked into one of the troopdeck washrooms one day to find the Chippie sitting on the deck struggling with a wastepipe under a sink. I asked him if he needed a hand as I knew a bit about these things. I should do as I was the one who had installed the pipe originally some four years earlier.
When I eventually joined the MN myself in 56 I was ships plumber on the Cheshire. There for some unknown reason it turned out to be my job to ensure the fresh water tanks were filled at each port where we could fill up. The carpenters only involvement was to take the soundings twice a day and enter them into the log on the bridge. This had its drawbacks and its compensations. Unless we were in port for a fairly long stay I was prevented from going ashore due to having to be there to fill the tanks, which left me very little time to go sight seeing. On the other hand there was money to be made in places like Malta and Aden because water in places like that was expensive,and with the right shore people and the collusion of the carpenter massaging the soundings you could make a few pounds.
Later on when I joined the Devonshire the tank filling was done by the chippies as was more usual.
Mention has also been made of the ability of some chippies to make things for the ships crews. One of the jobs the chippy did for us was to make a Kayak for the enjoyment of the crew when in sheltered waters such as Malta. We all took turns to have a go and I know I spent many a happy hour or two paddling round various places.


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## Pat Kennedy (Apr 14, 2007)

John, 
Regarding dry docking, it was also the shipwrights who prepared the dock ready for the ship. This was called 'regulating' the dock, and involved placing the docking blocks precisely, and adjusting their height with the aid of a water level, according to the plan of the ship's keel. There could be as many as fifty or sixty sets of blocks, each weighing several tons, in for example Lairds no 5 dock, and it was a work of art the way the chippies laid them out.
Pat


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## jmcg (Apr 20, 2008)

Pat Kennedy said:


> I recall on one ship I was in, back in the sixties, someone said that there were 2 and only 2 crew members who were essential, and that a deep sea ship was not allowed to sail without them. These were the cook and the carpenter. It appeared that every other crew member was dispensible as there were others on board who could do their job. Does anyone know if this was indeed the case?
> Pat



Quite correct- various Merchant Shipping Acts from 1894 until I think 1965 (I will look it up) provided for that requirement.

Highly skilled men- yes. On one west african trading vessel a number of the crowd had over the trips profited from the illegal smuggelling of African Grey parrots from Takoradi, Douala (the best type) Monrovia and others. I recall one trip with at least 20 - all aft in the sailors accomodation and hidden away in the after peak every Monday morning for OM's Inspection.

We called at Fernando Po - an island port off West Aftrica. On a trip ashore one AB "bought" a small black monkey with a view to resale in the UK.

This creature was locked in the cabin all day and exercised at night on the poop. A heaving line and running bowline knot was deployed.

We managed to keep this creature and the parrots out of sight of the OM during the two weekly inspections - although the Mate knew there were parrots on board.

We were bound for Liverpool but because of a possible industrial dispute there we were diverted to Hull. Hull was considered by many to have the most destructive "rummagers" or black gang HM Customs & Excise anywhere in the UK.

Shortly after picking the pilot up at Spurn the Mate sent a message down that a specialist black gang would be on board seeking out contraband. The crew accommodation would be blitzed.

The AB who had the monkey **** himself. We had a case conference comprising of all deck crowd, bosun & chippy. Chippy agreed to make a box (he got one almost for the job courtesy of a the engine dept.) and made some additional modifications (1 inch hole drilling.) The box was then placed on a base consisting of 2 long lengths of 2 in thick baulks of timber. To give a skid effect as Chippy opined.

The Chief Steward was consulted. He was a man of much medical knowledge.
After consultation with Chippy and others and to a vow of silence he prescribed a heavy dose of sleeping pills. These were duly dispensed.

As we made our way up the Humber it was agreed that we would administer the pills immediately, wait for the sedative effect to kick in and place the slumbering creature in the crate - all before it became day light. We would set the creature free and hope that it would get ashore .

In the fullness of time shore side was almost within reach and just before stations were called we hoisted the crate over the after rail and gently lowered it (coffin style) to the waters below.

Obviously, I dont know if it made it ashore or not. As for the parrots - we lost the lot to the C&E without owning up to being their owners.

The Mate sacked us all after that trip. By that I mean we were not "asked back" for the next trip.

The above is just a summary of the real events surrounding the monkey.

BW

J


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## GWB (Jul 11, 2007)

We always had a carpenter on board who sounded the fresh water tanks and was charged with keeping them topped up in port, and also did bit of plumbing looking after sewage system blockage on the passenger ships. As to making a pattern for a a prop I doubt that, never saw a chippie with the correct rule for casting shrinkage. Most casting was done outside not many shipyards had foundries big enough to cast large props.

GWB


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## Ron Stringer (Mar 15, 2005)

jmcg said:


> ...We called at Fernando Po - an island port off West Aftrica. On a trip ashore one AB "bought" a small black monkey with a view to resale in the UK.
> 
> Shortly after picking the pilot up at Spurn the Mate sent a message down that a specialist black gang would be on board seeking out contraband. The crew accommodation would be blitzed.
> 
> ...


Wasn't it amazing that such a box could have floated all the way up the East Coast as far a West Hartlepool before it drifted ashore?[=P]


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## ROBERT HENDERSON (Apr 11, 2008)

Ron Stringer said:


> Wasn't it amazing that such a box could have floated all the way up the East Coast as far a West Hartlepool before it drifted ashore?[=P]


What was even more amazing is how it got hold of a French uniform.

Regards Robert


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## jimmys (Jan 5, 2007)

*The Monkey*

Maybe Johns just forgot to tell us @ #44 that the box was lined with an old French Uniform, The monkey must have put it on. Keep him nice and warm.
All being good seafarers they would not leave the monkey without a wee sail and it just coasted along.
Who could pass West Hartlepool a place of beauty and culture.

regards
jimmy


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## jmcg (Apr 20, 2008)

jimmys said:


> Maybe Johns just forgot to tell us @ #44 that the box was lined with an old French Uniform, The monkey must have put it on. Keep him nice and warm.
> All being good seafarers they would not leave the monkey without a wee sail and it just coasted along.
> Who could pass West Hartlepool a place of beauty and culture.
> 
> ...


Not quite- but we did provide adequate sustinence for when he woke up. Chief Steward's instructions. Seem to recall he had copious amounts of Windsor Sausage. 

BW

J


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## jmcg (Apr 20, 2008)

Oh my God - they didn't hang him - did they?

My only solace therefore is that he made it ashore which in itself is testament to the skills of Chippy. 

BW

J


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## John Williams 56-65 (Feb 12, 2008)

GWB said:


> We always had a carpenter on board who sounded the fresh water tanks and was charged with keeping them topped up in port, and also did bit of plumbing looking after sewage system blockage on the passenger ships. As to making a pattern for a a prop I doubt that, never saw a chippie with the correct rule for casting shrinkage. Most casting was done outside not many shipyards had foundries big enough to cast large props.
> 
> GWB


I would echo GWBs comment that ships props were never made in a ship yard, at least to my knowledge. This is a specialised job handled by companies that made little else. There was a big propellor manufacturer on Shore RD on the Seacombe side of the East Float in Birkenhead. Stone Manganese a well known maker. I used to go in there to sell my Sunday papers to the men coming into work on a Sunday morning at 8am. They had usually started work before I left and what a racket they kicked up.


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## Bill Davies (Sep 5, 2007)

I have never come across *any* ship yard which produced there own propellers. In fact Stone Manganese seemed to have cornered the world Market for a time. Exited the Wallasey tunnel recently (Wirral Side) and noted a solitary shed amongst much surrounding demolition. That was Stone Manganese.
I think Shipwrights were conversant with the pitch calculation we all were familiar with for the Stability paper in Second Mates (FG). That is about as much as they would know about propellers.


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## Derek Roger (Feb 19, 2005)

All due respect gents but I think the point has been missed with respect to propellers . 
If a Dry Docked ship had any history of undue vibrations that could be attributed to the Prop the Shipwrights could check the pitch as well as look for obvious damage and if the prop was found to be defective it would go ashore for repair or re pitching .


Anyone with doubts check Mac Gibbons Q and A for engineers .

The process was usually carried out with Shipwrights and the Marine Fitters .


Regards Derek


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## Derek Roger (Feb 19, 2005)

As an aside I would also like to comment on other skills the " Chippy " had . In Moji Japan on MV Mahsud we had an episode where one of the deck cranes ( ASEA ) was damaged when securing in the cradle by the crew causing severe damage to one of the legs .
Shore repair had calculated 6 days to repair ! The Chief Eng and myself thought that was too long as as we were on charter to Mitsui decided to do the repair our self .
We cropped the damaged section out and set the crane in its crotch and between the " Chippy " and ourselves set the Crane in its normal stowed position with the proper bearing clearances . Chippy then made a template of the required piece to be made by shore crew . 
This was made and we fitted it and welded it in position . Our 3rd Eng had a Lloyds welding Certificate . 
The 3 of us Chief ; 3Rd and myself did the welding ( My welding was not up to scratch and had to be cut out ) which ended up with just 2 welders .
The net result was that we did the repair in 2 days and the ship was not delayed . 
The Chief Eng was able to get a 100 Pound Bonus for the 3Rd Eng for his welding and the Chippy got 50 quid for his efforts . 

The Chief and I got some " Brownie Points " which was all we would have wanted or expected .


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## randcmackenzie (Aug 31, 2005)

Susan Richmond said:


> I was really interested to read all your postings about the work of a ship's carpenter as my ancestor from the Aland Islands who was shipwrecked off the Scottish Hebrides in c.1790 was said to be a ship's turner (carpenter) and many of his descendants in the Western Isles were carpenters until very recently. I was told they used to make spinning wheels.
> Obviously the ship's carpenter was quite vital and possibly had some far -ranging tasks. Fascinating!
> 
> Regards
> Sue


The BBC ran a Gaelic radio programme some time ago regarding unusual Hebridean names, and how they came to be there among the MacLeods, MacDonalds, Morrisons, MacNeils, Galbraiths etc etc.

I certainly recall a carpenter with a Nordic name, and again I think another carpenter with a Portuguese name. 

The Portuguese name survives as a firm of Uist builders, and I'm sure the Nordic name survives too.


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## Susan Richmond (Oct 9, 2008)

I was really interested in what you said as I looked up a distant relative on N. Uist this summer and she said she had taken part in a programme in Gaelic about her family history.I wish I could locate the programme as she said someone had rung in with the name of the ship our ancestor had been a carpenter on but she could not remember it.
The family name is Salmean and there are just a few left on N. Uist.


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## jimmys (Jan 5, 2007)

*Carpenters*

Stone Manganese Bronze were Brass Founders, their main factory was at Yoker on the north bank of the Clyde. In the past I have attended the factory. As far as I know their main base is still in Scotland. The factory is gone.
Most shipyards up to this day finish their propellers themselves. If in West of Scotland they subcontract it to McCalls in Inchinnan. My grandfather farmed the land McCall's stand on. I have attended it often as well.
Any self respecting tradesman on the Clyde including Chippies would know that when you are dealing with any screw thread the importance is lead, we measure lead, pitch is not material they do not teach that to master mariners. The fact of the machining is not in their comprehension.
When you machine you machine to lead. The lathe machines to lead. The lead scew does it.

regards
jimmy


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## slick (Mar 31, 2006)

All,
Reference to Dear jimmys, if its capital letters for Chippys then the same for Master Mariners please, what started out as a generally informative and investigative thread has turned into a bit of a rant, as many threads on this site lately unfortunately do.
Yours aye,
Slick


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## Derek Roger (Feb 19, 2005)

slick said:


> All,
> Reference to Dear jimmys, if its capital letters for Chippys then the same for Master Mariners please, what started out as a generally informative and investigative thread has turned into a bit of a rant, as many threads on this site lately unfortunately do.
> Yours aye,
> Slick


Slick' Chippies were well versed in things Maritime and were a well respected part of the crew.


Cheers Derek


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## jimmys (Jan 5, 2007)

*chippies*

The propeller pattern would normally be made by the patternmaker and the mould by a moulder, but in order to give the chippie a full knowledge of the process he would make the pattern, the mould, and also cast it.
For this he would be given access to patternmakers measurement devices, these are contraction measurement rules. He is working in a whole system of size measurement divorced from the normal. 
No Master Mariner would ever be given access to this system it is dangerous, it can only be used by a serious tradesman. 

For anyone to think this is in any way similar to Second Mates pitch calculations is barely believable. It is not a rant it is someone who knows telling persons who evidently do not.

regards
jimmy


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## surfaceblow (Jan 16, 2008)

I went to a high school that required us to take mechanical drawing, material processes, pattern making, foundry, machine shop besides the normal academic courses. 

The main tool of the pattern maker besides the drawing was knowledge of the intended material to be used for the casting. Once the material was known the correct ruler would be used that would take care of all of the shrinkage calculations. 

One of the school's instructors damaged his boats propeller so the class made a pattern and casted a few new propellers for him. We also ended up machining and polishing the new propellers. 

There are more than few graduates that ended up becoming Mates and Masters.
Joe


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## Pat Hughes (Sep 23, 2008)

jimmys said:


> *No Master Mariner would ever be given access to this system it is dangerous, it can only be used by a serious tradesman*.
> 
> For anyone to think this is in any way similar to Second Mates pitch calculations is barely believable. It is not a rant *it is someone who knows telling persons *who evidently do not.
> 
> ...



Please explain and enlighten all Master Mariners


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## EBenarty (Oct 5, 2005)

I sailed on an anchor handler out of Aberdeen in the 70 's and the cook paid off sick. The captain elected an AB to go cook for the trip, but just before sailing the NUS rep came on board and stopped us sailing as we did not have a qualified cook on board. We did not mind as we got 2 more days in port before a replacement was found !!


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## jimmys (Jan 5, 2007)

*Ships Carpenters*

Hi Surfaceblow,

It must be wonderful to go to a high school. I went to a Senior Secondary in Scotland. And to know so much about engineering. You are now a Chief Engineer. You look so handsome in your picture. Wonderful.
I was an old apprentice in the Clyde. I forgot to put this qualification on my resume, I have enclosed a copy of the CGLI certificate. I never got round to making bits for friends boats they could not afford them. We were too busy making real ones. When I was in University they did not let Masters and Mates into the courses they were not qualified. They kept them in Nautical Studies.



regards
jimmy


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## EBenarty (Oct 5, 2005)

I was on an AHTS in the 70's when the cook paid off sick. The Captain decided to make an AB cook for the trip but down to Torrie arrived the NUS and prevented us from sailing for 2 days until a new cook arrived. Much to the delight of everyone as it was blowing F 10 outside


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