# National Gas and Oil Engine Company diesels



## jmirvine (Nov 23, 2006)

I sailed on one BP tanker where the generator engines were by the National Gas and Oil Engine Company, but I can't remember which.

The British Merlin, Mallard, and Cygnet were all built by H&W, and as far as I remember, they all had Mirrlees generator engines. The Merlin had 3 generators, while the Mallard & Cygnet had 2.

The British Fulmar and Curlew were built by Stephens, and had Sulzer main engines, but I _think_ the generators were Mirrlees. I remember that the main engines were absolutely crap on both of them, especially the Fulmar. I can't remember how many pistons we changed, but it was certainly well into double figures!

The British Patrol was built by Swan Hunter, and I _think_ the generators were Mirrlees. 

The British Crusader was built by Cammell Laird, but I can't remember what the generators were. Is this the one that had the National Gas and Oil engines??

Anybody know the answer, or where I could find out??


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## david freeman (Jan 26, 2006)

Oh dear ??? Br.vision built in sunderland, and then the br envoy scapped 1968/9 inverkirething. Both 16.000 dwt product tankers.???mabe i am wrong! Nasty gas generators,and steam auxilaries as back up to the electric dc plant.


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## alaric (Feb 27, 2012)

jmirvine said:


> I sailed on one BP tanker where the generator engines were by the National Gas and Oil Engine Company, but I can't remember which.
> 
> The British Merlin, Mallard, and Cygnet were all built by H&W, and as far as I remember, they all had Mirrlees generator engines. The Merlin had 3 generators, while the Mallard & Cygnet had 2.
> 
> ...


In the 1960s National Gas was taken over by Mirrlees and the same engines were marketed as Mirrlees-National for a short period then Mirrlees. Not the 'K's, these were the genuine Mirrlees.
Does this help?


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## makko (Jul 20, 2006)

Myself (BF/Ocean Fleets), Andy Perry (BP) and Dominic Pisani (T&J Harrisons) did our "end of course" (Higher Tech Diploma) project at Riversdale (Phase III) using a National Gas diesel generator. A very simple design of engine which benefitted our needs.

Our project involved making and installing "electronic instrumentation", mainly Piezo cells. The output was to digital read outs and an oscillograph. We were able to make screen captures - freezing the screen and tracing! The main purpose was to prove possible a system for constant performance monitoring and predictive maintenance. This was 1983!!! And I lusted for a PC which was on display in the HP shop by the Victoria monument - Derby Square. Much too much money!


Nowadays, it is all Plug'n Play electronics to measure anything and then integrate in ladder logic. Not so sexy!!!!

Rgds.
Dave


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## Varley (Oct 1, 2006)

They don't all use ladder logic I regret. I can still read that as quickly as I can a 'conventional' circuit diagram. I can read similar using logic symbols but it takes me forever, no fluency which (I am told) those who grow up with them have and can use them as easily as I can the old.

In both cases, of course, they must now use large print!


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## Bill Morrison (May 25, 2013)

jmirvine said:


> I sailed on one BP tanker where the generator engines were by the National Gas and Oil Engine Company, but I can't remember which.
> 
> The British Merlin, Mallard, and Cygnet were all built by H&W, and as far as I remember, they all had Mirrlees generator engines. The Merlin had 3 generators, while the Mallard & Cygnet had 2.
> 
> ...


I don't know which vessel but this advert from The Motor Ship may be your nightmare.


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## JohnBP (Mar 27, 2008)

I sailed on both the Crusader and the Curlew. As far as I remember Crusader had Mirrlees.. and so did the Curlew... BTW I was on the Crusader for 4 months before she had a collision at anchor off the Isle of Grain.. I was on the Curlew for 6 months, both main engines at that time were good no major issues


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## jmirvine (Nov 23, 2006)

JohnBP said:


> I sailed on both the Crusader and the Curlew. As far as I remember Crusader had Mirrlees.. and so did the Curlew... BTW I was on the Crusader for 4 months before she had a collision at anchor off the Isle of Grain.. I was on the Curlew for 6 months, both main engines at that time were good no major issues


I was on the Curlew from August '73 and we had all sorts of bother with the Sulzer main engine, but it wasn't as bad as the Fulmar which was the only other "Birdie" with a 7 cylinder Sulzer. It was a right crock of sh**


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## Andrew147 (Mar 23, 2009)

I was on the Fulmar Feb to July 72. Both the Mirrlees generators crank pins had been worn excessively oval so, just before drydocking at Keppel Singapore, they were being run together along with the Bellis and Morcom steam jenny. If I remember right the Mirrlees were 600kw and the Bellis 350kw. All dc of course. 
The Sulzer was an RSAD type, I remember the chief saying that only a few had been made. One major problem was the semi rotary exhaust valves.
On the plus side it was a bird boat ie good runs and good socially.
According to the internet it left the fleet in 73 being sold to Solamole.


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## Deepankar Choudhury (Jul 9, 2018)

The National Gas & Oil Engine Company, Ltd., was founded by Mr. H. N. Bickerton who after being in the company for some time as an engineer, stepped into the areas of the horizontal gas engine manufacturer. The engines were designed originally to run on town's gas and a later development was the gas manufacturing plant using anthracite, coke and waste fuels such as wood, cotton seed etc. The introduction of the gas plant increased substantially the demand for gas engines, as they not only proved to be the most economical power available at the time but combined engines and gas plants could be installed anywhere in the world where solid fuel was available from which the gas could be extracted.


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## JKB (Jul 6, 2007)

While we're on the subject of the National Gas & Oil Engine Company, it may be interesting to note that, despite production being transferred to the Mirrlees factory at Stockport in the 1960s, much of the Ashton-Under-Lyne factory still stands. In contrast, the Stockport plant has now been completely demolished with houses and a warehouse for spares distribution built in its place.
The lettering on the gable ends of the Ashton plant made more sense before the name "Mirrlees" was shoehorned in after the merger of the two companies, but the old lettering can be made out in places.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/29672830577/in/photolist-Md61Kc-2aTH2Zj/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/44561051032/in/photolist-Md61Kc-2aTH2Zj/


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## Long gone (Jun 20, 2009)

JKB said:


> While we're on the subject of the National Gas & Oil Engine Company, it may be interesting to note that, despite production being transferred to the Mirrlees factory at Stockport in the 1960s, much of the Ashton-Under-Lyne factory still stands. In contrast, the Stockport plant has now been completely demolished with houses and a warehouse for spares distribution built in its place.
> The lettering on the gable ends of the Ashton plant made more sense before the name "Mirrlees" was shoehorned in after the merger of the two companies, but the old lettering can be made out in places.
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/29672830577/in/photolist-Md61Kc-2aTH2Zj/
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/44561051032/in/photolist-Md61Kc-2aTH2Zj/


The remaining part of Mirrlees, in Hazel Grove, was bought out and closed by MAN in 2006-ish. A CHP design and installation company in Salford I did some work for took several of their engineers and drawing office staff on.


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## JKB (Jul 6, 2007)

Long gone said:


> The remaining part of Mirrlees, in Hazel Grove, was bought out and closed by MAN in 2006-ish. A CHP design and installation company in Salford I did some work for took several of their engineers and drawing office staff on.


Not quite closed; the new spares warehouse and the new office block are still there under the MAN Primeserve banner. The whole of the original 1903 factory has been flattened and there are new houses on much of the site. A sad sight for me in particular, three generations of my family worked there.
You'll have worked with a number of my old colleagues at Ener-G, no doubt.


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## Long gone (Jun 20, 2009)

JKB said:


> Not quite closed; the new spares warehouse and the new office block are still there under the MAN Primeserve banner. The whole of the original 1903 factory has been flattened and there are new houses on much of the site. A sad sight for me in particular, three generations of my family worked there.
> You'll have worked with a number of my old colleagues at Ener-G, no doubt.


Indeed; Ken Stansfield and David Farrington to name but two. I did several stints there between 2006 and 2016, so they must have thought I was O.K.! The owner sold the company to Centrica around Easter 2016.


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## roboted (Sep 4, 2008)

Another incarnation.


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## jep1916 (Jan 31, 2014)

david freeman said:


> Oh dear ??? Br.vision built in sunderland, and then the br envoy scapped 1968/9 inverkirething. Both 16.000 dwt product tankers.???mabe i am wrong! Nasty gas generators,and steam auxilaries as back up to the electric dc plant.


I was J/E on the Clyde Envoy in 1961. I'm sure the Generators were Mirlees with a funny little Steam driven Genny as back up.


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## Andrew147 (Mar 23, 2009)

jep1916 said:


> I was J/E on the Clyde Envoy in 1961. I'm sure the Generators were Mirlees with a funny little Steam driven Genny as back up.


I think, on the Fulmar at least, the steam genny was a Bellis & Morcom.
I met them ashore as compressors in factories. Would run for years virtually without any maintenance.


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## Tim Gibbs (Apr 4, 2012)

Sorry not a direct answer to questions but my recent post on ER explosions actually is referring to those same Nasty Gas engines which may give pause for thought!


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## sternchallis (Nov 15, 2015)

JohnBP said:


> I sailed on both the Crusader and the Curlew. As far as I remember Crusader had Mirrlees.. and so did the Curlew... BTW I was on the Crusader for 4 months before she had a collision at anchor off the Isle of Grain.. I was on the Curlew for 6 months, both main engines at that time were good no major issues


I suppose having a collision at anchor takes a bit of doing unless she swung on her anchor or somebody hit her whilst anchored.

Watercooled box sections sound a bit novel, hope it was fresh water, though if the box section cracks or a weld starts to go you have a sump full of water. If it was salt water then 'cockles and mussels alive alive oh'. A variation of the keel cooler perhaps.


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