# Researching Great Grandfather Capt. William Stapledon



## merseyferryfan

Hi folks, I'm trying to research the seafaring life of my GG Grandfather (1829-1902) from North Devon. I'm getting tied in knots now because so much of what I thought was fact, doesn't tie up with the records on Lloyds Register of Shipping. I want to be able to assume the Register is reliable, but things don't tie up.
He was supposed to have gained his Master's Certificate at the age 21 and we know the ships he sailed in. My question is, does anyone know what the regulations were in those times. I assumed that no-one could take command of a vessel unless they had a Master's Certificate, but I keep finding other people named as Master on ships when I was sure he was in command. If anyone out there has any knowledge of this subject, I'd be glad to hear. The time scale I'm dealing with is roughly1850 to 1867.


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## Roger Griffiths

A full name and date of place of birth would be a big help. I have a *William Stapledon* baptised Great Torrington Devon 29/Nov/1829
Do you have a copy of his Masters Certificate?
How do you know what ships he sailed on and where did this information come from?
Do you have the Official Number (post 1855) of any of these vessels?
Do you Know the number of his certificate of competency and service? I have a *William Stapledon* passing his ordinary masters Liverpool 1850 certificate number 4069. This certificate was cancelled some time between 1853 and 1858

Roger


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## merseyferryfan

Roger Griffiths said:


> A full name and date of place of birth would be a big help. I have a *William Stapledon* baptised Great Torrington Devon 29/Nov/1829
> Do you have a copy of his Masters Certificate?
> How do you know what ships he sailed on and where did this information come from?
> Do you have the Official Number (post 1855) of any of these vessels?
> Do you Know the number of his certificate of competency and service? I have a *William Stapledon* passing his ordinary masters Liverpool 1850 certificate number 4069. This certificate was cancelled some time between 1853 and 1858
> 
> Roger


Hi Roger, sorry for the delay in replying, I had the flu over Christmas. My GG Grandfather was born 10th March 1829 in Appledore, North Devon, the son of a sea captain, James Stapledon who was master and part-owner of the Devonshire Lass for many years until the ship was sold. Lloyds register confirms this for most of the years from 1840 to 1866. According to info passed down through the family, William went to sea at the age of 16 and aquired his Master's Cert at 21, and had command of his first ship, the John Patchett at 23. I have, in the family a beautifully written diary, kept alongside the official ship's log, of his first voyage to Australia, Batavia and Ceylon between 1852 and 1854. After his return, the next voyage was to the Pacific, but the ship was lost along with 7 others, and many lives were lost during a terrible storm while at anchor off Mazatlan on the west coast of Mexico. I have a transcript of the event as reported in the Sacramento (California) Union dated 19th July 1855. This was an eye witness account of the event by an officer on board John Patchett, and named William Stapledon as the captain.
A friend helping me with research has supplied the Master's Certificate for William Stapledon issued 23rd August 1855 and registered on the 24th. Unfortunately, this doesn't tie up with him getting his ticket at the age of 21, that would be about 1850, and anyway it's long before he became captain of the John Patchett. To make matters worse, I can't find any record of William as master of the John Patchett on Lloyds Register for any of these years.
Thanks for showing an interest. I'm attaching the Master's Cert that I have, but there's no number on it. I don't know if there could be another William Stapledon because the spelling of our name is unusual with a "don", but he had a cousin, a couple of years younger called William H Stapledon who got his Master's Cert in 1855 and sailed with him as mate on a later ship, The Norwood. Sorry, but the certificate wouldn't upload. Anyway if you can help throw any light on what's going on, I'd be most grateful.
Regards and best wishes for the new Year,

Tom


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## Roger Griffiths

Hello Tom,
On balance, I think the William Stapledon with certificate 4069 stands a good chance of being your man. It would copy with him obtaining a Masters certificate at the age of 21. It needs checking anyhow.
I would not worry too much about the none entries in Lloyds Register, they can be out by a couple of years. He is listed in as master of JOHN PATCHETT in Lloyds register 1855. http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...ns:0Ftz6zT302-gFzEJxA5c6C#v=onepage&q&f=false
I cannot view the Mercantile Navy List 1854-1858. but the previous entries do not say which vessel he was on. That would suggest to me he was not a Master but functioning as Mate or some other capacity. That would not be uncommon given his age
I am away from home at the minute so the only link I can give you is TNA. Kew http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/...4163&SearchInit=4&SearchType=6&CATREF=bt122/6
These records are on microfilm so you would need to visit. He may also have records at NMM Greenwich and London Metropolitan Archives.
I will send more when I get home.


Roger


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## merseyferryfan

*GGGrandfather*



Roger Griffiths said:


> Hello Tom,
> On balance, I think the William Stapledon with certificate 4069 stands a good chance of being your man. It would copy with him obtaining a Masters certificate at the age of 21. It needs checking anyhow.
> I would not worry too much about the none entries in Lloyds Register, they can be out by a couple of years. He is listed in as master of JOHN PATCHETT in Lloyds register 1855. http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...ns:0Ftz6zT302-gFzEJxA5c6C#v=onepage&q&f=false
> I cannot view the Mercantile Navy List 1854-1858. but the previous entries do not say which vessel he was on. That would suggest to me he was not a Master but functioning as Mate or some other capacity. That would not be uncommon given his age
> I am away from home at the minute so the only link I can give you is TNA. Kew http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/...4163&SearchInit=4&SearchType=6&CATREF=bt122/6
> These records are on microfilm so you would need to visit. He may also have records at NMM Greenwich and London Metropolitan Archives.
> I will send more when I get home.
> 
> 
> Roger


Hi Roger,
It seems strange to me that the first entry in Lloyds Register where he appears is 1855/6 when the ship had already been lost, and that listing is for J. Stapledon and not W. Stapledon.
I'm interested to know how you come by a certificate number when the certificate I have has no number to it. Is there more information logged that doesn't appear on the certificates, to help pin down an indidvidual, because name only isn't very precise?
I'll wait to see if you can turn up any more info when you get home, but many thanks for your help so far.

Tom


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## Roger Griffiths

Hello Tom,
Like I say do not worry about the entries in Lloyds register.
I suspect the certificate you have is not the same as the one I am refering. Look at pages 180 and 106 in the Mercantile Navy List 1853.
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...03#v=onepage&q="mercantile navy list"&f=false

The Mercantile Navy List is not avialable on line for the years 1854 until 1858. It was not published in 1856. Merseyside Maritime Museum may have copies for 1854-1857

I think you also have to look at the crew agreements of JOHN PATCHETT if they have survived they will be in the series BT98 at TNA

The more I think about the more my belief that he is your man.

Roger


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## merseyferryfan

Roger Griffiths said:


> Hello Tom,
> Like I say do not worry about the entries in Lloyds register.
> I suspect the certificate you have is not the same as the one I am refering. Look at pages 180 and 106 in the Mercantile Navy List 1853.
> http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...03#v=onepage&q="mercantile navy list"&f=false
> 
> The Mercantile Navy List is not avialable on line for the years 1854 until 1858. It was not published in 1856. Merseyside Maritime Museum may have copies for 1854-1857
> 
> I think you also have to look at the crew agreements of JOHN PATCHETT if they have survived they will be in the series BT98 at TNA
> 
> The more I think about the more my belief that he is your man.
> 
> Roger


HI Roger, 
It looks like that Certificate I had been supplied with was the wrong man, although its surprising to me that there would be another with the same name. Thanks for pointing me at the Mercantile Navy List. I found it difficult to find my way around it, but the right info seems to be there confirming he had his Master's ticket, he was master of the John Patchett, and she was destined for Sydney, all of which I wanted to confirm.Great stuff so far!!


Tom


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## Roger Griffiths

merseyferryfan said:


> HI Roger,
> It looks like that Certificate I had been supplied with was the wrong man, although its surprising to me that there would be another with the same name.


Not necessarily. In my first post I said that the certificate 4069 was cancelled some time between 1853 and 1858.
I am back on my own PC and finding it easier to search. 
I have found WILLIAM STAPLEDON with the certificate number 13060 passed Liverpool 1850, up until at least 1864. I believe this is the same man.
This is good news. All things being equal there should be a complete record of his seagoing career (from 1851) in Lloyd's Captains Register. I cannot check it out as there is no on line index for captains whose surname begins with the letter "S"
Lloyds Captains Registers are held at London Metropolitan Archives.
Their research service is good if a bit pricey
http://www.cityoflondon.gov.uk/thin...ry/Pages/Family-History-Research-Service.aspx
I am told Certificates are on line at Ancestry.com
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/search/db.aspx?dbid=2271 May be worth a look.

Roger


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## merseyferryfan

Roger Griffiths said:


> Not necessarily. In my first post I said that the certificate 4069 was cancelled some time between 1853 and 1858.
> I am back on my own PC and finding it easier to search.
> I have found WILLIAM STAPLEDON with the certificate number 13060 passed Liverpool 1850, up until at least 1864. I believe this is the same man.
> This is good news. All things being equal there should be a complete record of his seagoing career (from 1851) in Lloyd's Captains Register. I cannot check it out as there is no on line index for captains whose surname begins with the letter "S"
> Lloyds Captains Registers are held at London Metropolitan Archives.
> Their research service is good if a bit pricey
> http://www.cityoflondon.gov.uk/thin...ry/Pages/Family-History-Research-Service.aspx
> I am told Certificates are on line at Ancestry.com
> http://search.ancestry.co.uk/search/db.aspx?dbid=2271 May be worth a look.
> 
> Roger


Hi again,
Yes that was a bit disappointing that the letter "S" hasn't been scanned in yet on the Lloyds Captain's Register, as that's available for free! I had a look on Ancestry and it lists seven entries, three of them for William H Stapledon who was his cousin and sailed with him as Mate at one time. I can't access the details of course because I don't subscribe and can't afford to. I'll have to ask the friend who got the Certificate for me, to access it for again and get all the associated information and not just a photo of the certificate.
There was lots of interesting information on Lloyds Masters and Mates list about the process of the examinations for masters and mates certificates and everything they have to learn to pass the exam. Seems amazing to me that a young man of 21 can learn all that, and be regarded as mature enough to be in command of an ocean-going vessel, it's crew, and cargo at such a young age. Interesting reading, thanks very much for pointing me in the right direction.

Tom


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## Roger Griffiths

Hello Tom,
I have a William Henry Stapledon. Certificate number 10782 passed Plymouth 1860. I guess this is/was his cousin and sailed with him as Mate.

Roger


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## merseyferryfan

Roger Griffiths said:


> Hello Tom,
> I have a William Henry Stapledon. Certificate number 10782 passed Plymouth 1860. I guess this is/was his cousin and sailed with him as Mate.
> 
> Roger


Hello Roger,
Yes, I have photos of a First Mate's certificate dated 19/2/1858 and a Master's Certificate dated 6/7/1860 for William H, who was my GGGrandfather's cousin and who was two years younger than him. I have a record of him being listed on a crew list as Second Mate on the ship Norwood while William was Master for a voyage To Melbourne and Callao, Dec 1856 to Jan 1858. These certificate dates seem to tie up with William H being second mate on that voyage and getting his First Mate and Masters later, but I still have this discrepancy with the photo I have of William's Maser's Cert dated Aug 1855. I'm going to email the lady who found this for me to see if she has any other info to go with that certificate, because it doesn't fit with the information you've found for me. Is there any more information about the fact you thought the certificate was withdrawn at some time? How does that come about?

Tom


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## Roger Griffiths

Hello Tom,
The certificate 4069 was withdrawn between 1853 and 1857. I do not have copies of the MNL for these years so I cannot tell you exactly when but 1857 is the best bet.
Why was it withdrawn?
Your guess is as good as mine. I would suggest the loss of the JOHN PATCHETT may be the catalyst. Maybe his certificate was lost in the general confusion. Who knows

regards
Roger


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## merseyferryfan

Roger Griffiths said:


> Hello Tom,
> The certificate 4069 was withdrawn between 1853 and 1857. I do not have copies of the MNL for these years so I cannot tell you exactly when but 1857 is the best bet.
> Why was it withdrawn?
> Your guess is as good as mine. I would suggest the loss of the JOHN PATCHETT may be the catalyst. Maybe his certificate was lost in the general confusion. Who knows
> 
> regards
> Roger


Hi Roger,

That sounds like a sensible guess. Perhaps his certificate was withdrawn while an investigation was undertaken to decide if there was a case to answer for the loss of John Patchett. Or merely because the certificate was lost at sea. I must try to get over to the Liverpool Maritime Museum to see if they hold any records.

Regards, 
Tom


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## John Rogers

I have been following this thread to see what the outcome would be. I big pat on the back for Roger Griffith for all the research he did.


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## Roger Griffiths

Thanks John,
It's not often I get a pat on the back or anywhere else these days!
rgds
Roger


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## merseyferryfan

Roger Griffiths said:


> Thanks John,
> It's not often I get a pat on the back or anywhere else these days!
> rgds
> Roger


Yes, many thanks Roger, your help has been much appreciated. I've had to put my research on hold for now with both elderly parents ill and in hospital. My next step must be a visit to the Liverpool Maritime Museum when I can Thanks once again for your efforts.

Tom


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