# Sagamore



## Fairfield

SAGAMORE and EDENMORE were two medium size ore carriers built at the Blythswood yard for Furness Withy and SAGAMORE is seen here inbound to Glasgow.
She was scrapped in 1992 as CAPETAN ALBERTO.EDENMORE went in 1984 as WELCOME.


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## tanker

Also EDENMORE became Italian ,after WELCOME she became DUGLASIA and
was scrapped a few time later CAPITAN ALBERTO .


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## Fairfield

Also remember a similar ore carrier BEECHWOOD I think becoming an Italian ship,CAPETAN FRANCO V I think and was very colourful.Will look for photo.


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## tanker

Yes you have good memory CAPITANO FRANCO V was BEECHWOOD and had 
a sister build as ALDERSGATE and scapped as DANUBE in middle 80s.


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## Mick quinn

*Sagamore/Aldersgate*

They say you learn a little every day and today it is my turn big-time. I sailed on the Sagamore for BISCO running between Workington and Russia(mostly) in 1972/3. Never realised that it was a near sister to the Aldersgate which I sailed on as a very young cadet in 1967 from South Wales to Rio (of all places!) and back to Rotterdam. The memories don't come flooding back, too much water under the keel for that, but I remember arriving at Rio on a ship almost out of fresh water and enjoying the local "night" life. I believe that the Aldersgate was owned or managed by the Bishopgate Shipping Company. Happy days!


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## BRIAN HERDMAN

FROM THE SUN NEWSPAPER JANUARY 1976
Aship cat has been saved from death by a special clause in a boat bying contract.
Furness Withy the british ship owners,insistthat the Italian buyers should do there best to keep the Siamese cat Princess Truban Tao-Tai,happy in her old age.
And that means the cat who has never left the 15,500-ton Sagamore since she joind the crew in 1959 will continue to have the run of the captains cabin
the Princess has traveld more than 1.5 million miles in the Sagamore and Furness Withy pleaded with the Italians not to have her put down.They eventually agree.A Furness Withy spokesman said "She is coming to the twilight of her life now and we didnt want to see her distroyed


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## Frank P

Good story Brian,

There are two photos of the Sagamore in my gallery, one as the Sagamore in Newport and one as the Capitan Alberto in her Italian colours.

http://www.shipsnostalgia.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=7956

http://www.shipsnostalgia.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=40816

Cheers Frank


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## BRIAN HERDMAN

Im New At This Game Ill Get Back Thanks 

Brian


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## d.mccarthy

does anybody remember the sagamore sailed from dublin in 73, to rio it was my first deep sea trip as a deck boy, the bosun was sandy maccloud would like to here from any crew members from the ship or any photos


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## d.mccarthy

hi mick it must have been about the same time i sailed in her , dublin to rio we had two weeks at anchor in rio nearly lost half the crew what a trip


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## cboots

As a Furness Withy apprentice I got orders to join one of them, the Sagamore I think it was, but the orders were changed before I got there. They seemed to spend most of their time running between Canada and Port Talbot in those days.
CBoots


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## Bill Davies

seem to remember that the 'Beechwood', 'Cherrywood' & 'Silversand' were sisters. Any confirmation.


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## janathull

I seem to remember that the Sagamore caught fire in one of the Welsh ports with the loss of 1 life,the sparkie I seem to recall. Apparently they were having a christmas party for some local kids and the decorations caught fire. I sailed on the Edenmore, lovely job. Cheers Jan.


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## d.mccarthy

sailed on the sagamore in 73 great mixed crew English Irish Scots and welsh the only names i can remember is sandy mcleod bosun from stornoway and a Des jack from Dublin


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## BPCadet

*M.V. Sagamore*

Shipmates,

I have found that information regarding the Sagamore is very hard to come by. Very few books make reference to this particular vessel at all and the internet turns up next to nothing. 

The only information that I have been able to obtain so far is the fact that the Sagamore was owned by FURNESS WITHY & CO LTD and was built in 1957. She was approx. 10,792t, with a total length of 505 ft and breadth of 67 ft.

Any information/photos/stories regarding this particular vessel would be greatly appreciated. I would also be delighted to hear from anyone who actually served on the Sagamore.

Kind Regards,

BPCadet


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## ian d.cameron

Hello BP Cadet
If you put Sagamore in the search forum box you will come across threads like this.
http://www.shipsnostalgia.com/showthread.php?t=791&highlight=Sagamore
once in a thread you can also search that thread.


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## Nigel Withers

*M V Sagamore*

One of 2 ore carriers operated by Furness Withy.Sister ship was M V Edenmore.Both had Johnston Warren type names ending in -more.
Sagamore was built in Glasgow 1957 and Edenmore completed in 1958. Both mainly operated on charter to British Steel Corporation.
Hope this helps.


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## non descript

Ian and Nigel, 
Thank you for your good support _(with the gentle and kind reminder that it is good to do a 'search' using the key word) _- BPCadet's thread [which starts at # 15 and then your # 16 and #17] has now been merged with this main *Sagamore* thread, which was started way back on 12th October 2004.
(Thumb) 
Mark


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## Colin Torrie

BPCadet said:


> Shipmates,
> 
> I have found that information regarding the Sagamore is very hard to come by. Very few books make reference to this particular vessel at all and the internet turns up next to nothing.
> 
> The only information that I have been able to obtain so far is the fact that the Sagamore was owned by FURNESS WITHY & CO LTD and was built in 1957. She was approx. 10,792t, with a total length of 505 ft and breadth of 67 ft.
> 
> Any information/photos/stories regarding this particular vessel would be greatly appreciated. I would also be delighted to hear from anyone who actually served on the Sagamore.
> 
> Kind Reg
> 
> BPCadet


Hi Reg
I sailed on the Sagamore. Joined her in 1958 as S.O.S. I believe it was her 3rd voyage, 
Stayed on her until she was laid up in Blackwater Creek in 59. Lack of orders.
I joined her again as A.B. in 1959.
I can only speak highly of the ship. The food was spendid. The Officers and crew mingled very well. The Captain on both occasions was a slightly built man from Wales I believe ,the Ist Officer was Mr Taylor(quite a chatacter)
The Bosun was from Cardiff (Great man)
Did all the Iron Ore Ports...Narvik ....Oslo ....Seven Islands... Belle Isle...Lisbon....Algiers... Casablanca... Monrovia...Vitoria.
Verey happy memories.


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## phcfelix

I remember the good ship "Sagamore"
I was the agent for the Furness Withy Group back in the 70's when the Sagamore called at the West Thurrock Power Station just before she was sold.
I also recall the special clause in the sale contract when the ships Cat had to spend the rest of her natural life onboard the vessel in the masters cabln.

I also have a picture of the cat. I will see if I can find it and upload the picture.


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## non descript

phcfelix said:


> I also have a picture of the cat. I will see if I can find it and upload the picture.


Thanks and it would be good to see a picture of the cat; the saga was given some more airtime by Brian Herdman at* # 6*

(Thumb) 
Mark


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## Shipbuilder

I joined the SAGAMORE in Glasgow on 18th March, '63 as radio officer. I left on 3rd June 1965 in Barry, to join the B & C group. Very happy years in SAGAMORE. Knew ship's cat very well. Went by the nickname of Mouser. During that time, some names I remember were:
Captains Swann & Wiles.
C/O Taylor, Phil Warne, Thorogood, Firth
2/O Usher, Dabbs,
3/0 Hindmarch, Dyson, Bennett, Hodges
Deck cadets Badger, Farge, Kendrick, Blades, Jones, Watkins, Priestley
Eng cadets Hockenhull
C Eng Sunley, Wendt
2/E Pride, Morley
3/E Gee, Morgan
C/Stwd Dutton, Thompson, Foot-Wengler
Elec Binns, Gear
Bosun Bool
Carpenter Macalinden

Am still in touch with Phill Warne (ex C/O).

Several years later, sailed with one of the ABs (Alfie) in the WINDSOR CASTLE. He was tourist deckman & I was 4th R/0


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## Anchorman

I only did a short spell on the EDENMORE in 69 and memory not too good, so could anyone settle an argument . I seem to remember we used boiled oil only in way of the hatches, after chipping and wire brushing. We never painted the deck. If I remember correct it was trial idea on that vessel only.
Thanks
Neil


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## Shipbuilder

During my time aboard SAGAMORE, the foredeck was never painted, but it was coated in fuel oil, that made it a black sticky mess for a while, but it looked very smart when freshly done. I suppose fuel was cheaper than paint in the early 1960s!
Bob


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## Anchorman

Shipbuilder said:


> During my time aboard SAGAMORE, the foredeck was never painted, but it was coated in fuel oil, that made it a black sticky mess for a while, but it looked very smart when freshly done. I suppose fuel was cheaper than paint in the early 1960s!
> Bob



Thanks for that Bob. Seems like it was maybe common practice, not to paint. Never went on another ore carrier after the EDENMORE.

Regards
Neil


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## phcfelix

phcfelix said:


> I remember the good ship "Sagamore"
> I was the agent for the Furness Withy Group back in the 70's when the Sagamore called at the West Thurrock Power Station just before she was sold.
> I also recall the special clause in the sale contract when the ships Cat had to spend the rest of her natural life onboard the vessel in the masters cabln.
> 
> I also have a picture of the cat. I will see if I can find it and upload the picture.


I have now uploaded pictures of the Sagamore and cat Princess


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## Colin Torrie

*Sagamore memories*



Shipbuilder said:


> During my time aboard SAGAMORE, the foredeck was never painted, but it was coated in fuel oil, that made it a black sticky mess for a while, but it looked very smart when freshly done. I suppose fuel was cheaper than paint in the early 1960s!
> Bob


When I was on the Sagamore the foredeck was scraped and then coated with a cocktail of fish oil and black paint. Slippy for a while but kept the deck in good condition.


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## styne

My father..Davey Hill was chippy on both the Sagamore and Edenmore...knew the other chippy very well..Harry Macalindon..and remember the bosun Ivor Boole..seems a long time ago..


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## Shipbuilder

When the Italians got the ship, they joined up Nrs 2 & 3 hatces together to make the longest hatch I have ever seen on a ship! Here is the SAGAMORE shipping a green one in the North Atlantic in the early 60s. In the same storm, the forward goalposts were engulfed in a huge wave that tore both derricks out of their fixings and bent the heels through 90 degrees. One of the goalposts was knocked about two feet out of true at the top. Lot of rails went and some cracked frames. We had 4,000 tons of coiled steel aboard in an experiment in taking cargo out insteaf of ballast. It all shifted and was a terrible mess to get out.
Bob


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## Vindi65

Mick quinn said:


> the Aldersgate which I sailed on as a very young cadet in 1967 from South Wales to Rio (of all places!) and back to Rotterdam. The memories don't come flooding back, too much water under the keel for that, but I remember arriving at Rio on a ship almost out of fresh water and enjoying the local "night" life. I believe that the Aldersgate was owned or managed by the Bishopgate Shipping Company. Happy days!


Hi Mick, I was on the Aldersgate in 1967. I remember we had to anchor in Rio for a few weeks. On the way back to the UK we had to help out a Maersk ship that was on fire in the middle of the Atlantic. We hung around there for 4-5 days as I remember. Received some salvage money about 10 years later.

See discharge book entry.


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## KenM

d.mccarthy said:


> sailed on the sagamore in 73 great mixed crew English Irish Scots and welsh the only names i can remember is sandy mcleod bosun from stornoway and a Des jack from Dublin


I sailed on the Sagamore in 1973 as the Sparks. Did a 6 monther on her. Joined in Rotterdam. She was still on the Bristish Steel contract then but that was not renewed and she started tramping. One of the trips was to Rio arrived just before Carnival, which had been delayed that year because of some epidemic. Couldnt berth so swung on the hook for nearly 3 weeks. Got to see all the carnival. Thought the ship wouldn't move resting on all the beer cans. Sandy Mcleod was the bosun when I was aboard must have been the same trip.


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## KenM

d.mccarthy said:


> hi mick it must have been about the same time i sailed in her , dublin to rio we had two weeks at anchor in rio nearly lost half the crew what a trip


Just read back through the posts.It was the same trip!


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## jonnyingram

*Edenmore*

Sailed on the Edenmore in the late 50s as apprentice,Wabana,Sept Iles,Vitora twice.Ch.Off.Rutherford,Got a few pics which i will post after Christmas.


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## nigeljh

Fairfield said:


> SAGAMORE and EDENMORE were two medium size ore carriers built at the Blythswood yard for Furness Withy and SAGAMORE is seen here inbound to Glasgow.
> She was scrapped in 1992 as CAPETAN ALBERTO.EDENMORE went in 1984 as WELCOME.


my grandfather sailed on sagamore william swann


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## Shipbuilder

Hi,
If your grandfather was Captain W F Swann, I knew him very well, also your grandmother, who often sailed with us. I joined SAGAMORE in 1962 and left in 1964. I kept in touch with them and visited them in Barrow-in -Furness some time after Captain Swann retired, but sadly he died shortly after. I remained in touch with Mrs. Swann until her death in about 1982 or '83.
Best wishes
Bob


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## michael charters

Was Elect on Sagamore 69-70 about; sailed with Massher Morley and C/E Wendt.
Great time. always donating to charities. Generous crew. Well kept. Magregor hatches occasionally leaked. Had to weld the wedges often. Large space in ER. Low in the water when loaded. have a photo of AB oiling fore deck. will try and post it to SN. used the tunnel to go forward many time. I think I installed beer pumps to the pig and whistle during my spell aboard. Easy job no winches. Even the ER hand rail were polished.
I remember Abbey Road was in the charts.


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## michael charters

found this of Sagamore. AB oiling fordeck some more if you want them. We had a Photo enlarger in the hospital cabin of sagamore. developed on board


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## CAPT.BOB

I've not been on ShipsNostalgia for some time and find some chat about the Sagamore.
I was 3/0 on her 1967/68 and it may interest you to know she visited some strange places.Phillydelphia USA,An ore port some hundreds of miles up the Oronoco River and Mocamedes in Angola where some of us had a day in the bush with a guide hunting.
Capt Coyle ,Duggie Aitchison ,Mate and John Bletsoe 2/o.


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## calvin

same with souters ships mossemdes pepe l belem baltimore sparrow piont rio de jananero and angra dos rios sound very exotuc till you got there


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## desperate

BPCadet said:


> Shipmates,
> 
> I have found that information regarding the Sagamore is very hard to come by. Very few books make reference to this particular vessel at all and the internet turns up next to nothing.
> 
> The only information that I have been able to obtain so far is the fact that the Sagamore was owned by FURNESS WITHY & CO LTD and was built in 1957. She was approx. 10,792t, with a total length of 505 ft and breadth of 67 ft.
> 
> Any information/photos/stories regarding this particular vessel would be greatly appreciated. I would also be delighted to hear from anyone who actually served on the Sagamore.
> 
> Kind Regards,
> 
> BPCadet


i sailed on her in the late 60's carrying ore from canada to russia and the west coast of africa, was a beautiful ship and only left when she drydocked.


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## michael charters

was on Sagamore drydock Immingham. Ithink this was thetime Masher Morley slipped on gangway and broke his leg. See #37 that is me on deck chatting to deck hand. The engine room was immaculate and plenty of space. she used to skim over the water like astone when loaded.


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## Shipbuilder

Dinner menu
Bob


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## michael charters

*The galley crew who creted the menu*

Photo of the Chief Cook Sagamore


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## michael charters

If you need to take a trip back in time visit Utube MV Oakwood. Just like the voyage on Sagamore. The music is great aswell. The movie is in three parts.


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## desperate

michael charters said:


> If you need to take a trip back in time visit Utube MV Oakwood. Just like the voyage on Sagamore. The music is great aswell. The movie is in three parts.


many thanks michael, i watched all 3 vids, brought back some good memories,


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## michael charters

My lad says we never sailed in sea like that. Remember welding the wedges on the Magregor hatches to keep the big sea out.

*Remember the MV Derbyshire families tomorrow*.
We all came home.
Great movie on utube. Relived the times. Wish it could have lasted.
Were you on the Sagamore? (desperate)


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## desperate

michael charters said:


> My lad says we never sailed in sea like that. Remember welding the wedges on the Magregor hatches to keep the big sea out.
> 
> *Remember the MV Derbyshire families tomorrow*.
> We all came home.
> Great movie on utube. Relived the times. Wish it could have lasted.
> Were you on the Sagamore? (desperate)


i was michael,as EDH, with Capt. Swann, march '67 to july'67 then she went in dry dock near hull i thik it was, beautiful ship all round,


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## michael charters

*Photo of The Crowd Sagamore*



desperate said:


> i was michael,as EDH, with Capt. Swann, march '67 to july'67 then she went in dry dock near hull i thik it was, beautiful ship all round,


Do you recognise anyone


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## michael charters

*Sagamore in dry dock Immigham*



desperate said:


> i was michael,as EDH, with Capt. Swann, march '67 to july'67 then she went in dry dock near hull i thik it was, beautiful ship all round,


Sagamore's screw


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## michael charters

CAPT.BOB said:


> I've not been on ShipsNostalgia for some time and find some chat about the Sagamore.
> I was 3/0 on her 1967/68 and it may interest you to know she visited some strange places.Phillydelphia USA,An ore port some hundreds of miles up the Oronoco River and Mocamedes in Angola where some of us had a day in the bush with a guide hunting.
> Capt Coyle ,Duggie Aitchison ,Mate and John Bletsoe 2/o.


I do remember Duggie Aitchison, Why? because I think he listened to what you had to say. Great fellow. I think he was on the Picardy as well. If not he was on the Lock Ryan? Did he beome Master?


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## Ginger John

Michael, The chap with the glasses at the rear is Dick ? who was 4th eng and then up to 3rd after a few trips. The older white haired chap at the rear was a donkeyman. The guy in the dry dock beside the prop was one of the deck cadets.


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## michael charters

Yes we did call you Mc Arthur or Dick did, My memory seem to name Dick as Reg Moon?? Yes i did know the Cadet was in drydock. I took that Photo, My favorite photo is that one of the Crowd. Typifies all Merchant seamen, We had a wonderful Youth, Hope you still feel Young and beautiful, When I get a moment I;ll post some more photos, We had a Darkroom in the hospital cabin for developing these? is that correct? Which is the Web site On Captain Scott.
Did you sail to Nz on the Cyric? Twin screw? great on Manoevres I bet?


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## michael charters

ok His name is, Richard Moon


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## michael charters

John Go to #44 a view video .on utube/ those were the days


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## tonymorcom

*The Cat on the Sagamore*

Lots of mentions here about Princess Truban Tao-Tai. Personally I sailed on the Sagamore March ~ August 1974 with Capt R F Jackson.
The officer compliment was as follows:-
C.O J Bletsoe
2.0 P Montgomery
3.O K Shears then Larry Shaw
R.O T Slattery
D.C. Me
D.C. Pete Bond
Ch.Stew P Hammond
C.E S Pryde
2.E E Billmoria
3.E R Dowsing
4.E A Rowell
5.E H Rowlands
J.E D Hall
J.E A Fox
Elect D Coggon

Some very interesting copy ref the cat can be found athttp://www.shipsnostalgia.com/gallery/search.php?searchid=691604


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## aitchie53

michael charters said:


> I do remember Duggie Aitchison, Why? because I think he listened to what you had to say. Great fellow. I think he was on the Picardy as well. If not he was on the Lock Ryan? Did he beome Master?


My father was Doug Aitchison, he did become Master on the Chiltern, Mendip and Cheviot Prince. 

I spent many a happy day on the Sagamore as a snot nosed kid. Eventually I served an Apprenticeship in a Drydock and went to sea myself, now working for Lloyds Register.

People I remember - Captains Coyle, Billy Swann, Ivor Bool, Harry Macalinden, John Bletsoe, happy days.


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## TOM ALEXANDER

BPCadet said:


> Shipmates,
> 
> I have found that information regarding the Sagamore is very hard to come by. Very few books make reference to this particular vessel at all and the internet turns up next to nothing.
> 
> The only information that I have been able to obtain so far is the fact that the Sagamore was owned by FURNESS WITHY & CO LTD and was built in 1957. She was approx. 10,792t, with a total length of 505 ft and breadth of 67 ft.
> 
> Any information/photos/stories regarding this particular vessel would be greatly appreciated. I would also be delighted to hear from anyone who actually served on the Sagamore.
> 
> Kind Regards,
> 
> BPCadet


I joined the Sagamore in Newport as a deck apprentice somewhere around Sept/Oct 1958.Can't remember any names, but the skipper often had his wife aboard and held regular parties for the officers when she was.He would impress us with his prodigious memory displays.A good skipper. I did quite a few trips - Wabana/Birkenhead. Seven Islands(Sept Isles), Philadelphia. Wabana again/Birkenhead. Oxelesund, Narvik, South Shields, Monrovia, Casablanca, Bone (twice) and La Goulette (Tunis). On the ship for about 6 months - England 9 times during that time and never got home once due to the quick turn around time. Finally paid off about a week after she was laid up in the Blackwater. Very stiff ship when loaded and the main deck almost completely submerged at times in the North Atlantic. Had a 4 cylinder Doxfod opposed piston engine with direct drive, turning about 104 rpm when full away, although we ran a lot slower at times due to the slow ore trade at the time. I must agree with the rest of the posts - very happy ship with the old man arranging shore trips when time allowed. Bus trip to Stockholm when in Oxelesund and a "special" blue movie trip one evening in Casablanca. I didn't get to go on that latter one as on watch at the time. Crew thought the old man was exceedingly generous as no mention was made of payment until we paid off in the U.K. where all those who did go had a deduction of 5 pounds for "pictures" Obviously no one offered a single word of complaint.


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## Erimus

Mick quinn said:


> They say you learn a little every day and today it is my turn big-time. I sailed on the Sagamore for BISCO running between Workington and Russia(mostly) in 1972/3. Never realised that it was a near sister to the Aldersgate which I sailed on as a very young cadet in 1967 from South Wales to Rio (of all places!) and back to Rotterdam. The memories don't come flooding back, too much water under the keel for that, but I remember arriving at Rio on a ship almost out of fresh water and enjoying the local "night" life. I believe that the Aldersgate was owned or managed by the Bishopgate Shipping Company. Happy days!


Just caught this thread a bit late in the day!

I was in early 60's at BISC(Ore)Ltd; Middlesbrough and thereafter HQ in St.Helens Place in London before nationalisation in 1970.....The 2 Furness Withy vessels retained their owners agents in Middlesbrough, one of the few owners that did have them there....when it came to the dirty work,library boxes ships spares etc...we got the job...when it came to post pay-off lunches...they got them!! 

Whilst the design may have similarities both Aldersgate & Bishopsgate were actually substantially larger with a Summer Deadwight about 2400 tons more. Bishopsgate Shipping was at that time a partnership company between Biscore and Silverline....

geoff


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## kypros

Must agree with all the comments in this thread a lovely ship good crew good food and accommodation Ispent 6 months in her 1964.Always remmember the bad weather on the western in winter she seemed like a submarine I always felt uncomfortable and the comments about the leaking mcgregor hatches confirmed my unease huge caverneous space below even when fully loaded with ore.I joined her in BIDSTON must say a very well run vessel did a lot of the ports mentioned being on deck recall in the bad weather the sheltered well deck compartments which ran the full length of the ship only work you could do apart fom your normal watches the deck being out of bounds but had some very happy times on and of course i remember the cat reguards kypros


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## Shipbuilder

Kypros,
We must have sailed together - I was sparks from 1963-65. Had some awful weather in the North Atlantic. Also on one outward voyage Newport - Savona with coiled steel sheet (experimental outward cargo) we got hit by an enormous wave that tore both derrick crutches out of the forecastle and whipped them round the posts, bending the heels at about 90 degrees. The port post was knocked about two feet our of true at the top. The coiled steel shifted and partially unravelled. Lots of damage about the decks. After Savona, we loaded in Bone, came back to Emden, out to Vitoria and back to Barry for drydock, where I left.
Bob


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## kypros

SHIPBUILDER seems odd can remember the cat but very few of the crew names i sailed in various companies in the mn over a 10 year period recall the strange feeling as she dropped alongside the quay when loading the ore from the belts and crunching through the ice on the way into seven islands also very good relationships between the crew of all levels recall a casino roulette wheel on a organised evening happy time.As you say we must have sailed the same voyages Canada north africa norway and the west indies if i recall. Reguards kypros


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## Shipbuilder

Here are some more happy memories.
Boat Drill Savona.
Left to right, 2nd mate, sparks, 2nd steward, Savona 1965.
Shipping a green one.
Bob


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## michael charters

Shipbuilder said:


> Here are some more happy memories.
> Boat Drill Savona.
> Left to right, 2nd mate, sparks, 2nd steward, Savona 1965.
> Shipping a green one.
> Bob


Thanks for the photos of a good old ship.
Spent some time on deck welding the wedges on hatches. She never let in the seas when we were on board. when loaded you could nearly touch the foam leaning over the rail. Plenty of space on engine flats. I think it was sagamore that i installed electric welding equipment and the beer pumps for the 'Pig" Happy MN days loved it.


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## kypros

SHIPBUILDER a small world i do recall the 2ndmate and yourself sorry a bit late getting back to this thread the SAGAMORE was one of only 2 vessels in my MN career that traversed the KIEL canal for me a memorable occasion.I must say a very youthful looking sparks at that. reguards KYPROS


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## Shipbuilder

Yes, I remember going through the Kiel Canal as well. We had been to Oxelosund to load. 
Bob


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## kypros

SHIPBUILDER same voyage i believe we discharged in MIDDLESBOROUGH if my memory is correct. reguards KYPROS


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## Shipbuilder

Kypros,
You are correct. We sailed from Birkenhead on the 9th December, 1964, going north round Scotland. Arrived at Oxelosund at midday on the 14th. The gangway collapsed on the 15th and they had to rig the spare one. Sailed for Kiel on the 16th with 14,124 tons of iron ore. Encountered dense fog on the same night with horn going every five minutes. Arrived at Kiel at midnight on the 17th. Left the canal at 1130 on the 8th and I remember it was very pleasant going through. Remember talking at length to one of ours ABs on the poop as we transitted. He was older than the rest - Fred ???? and he remained in the ship for a couple of years and relieved as bosun.
Passed the wreck of Elder Dempster's ONDO, half submerged with derricks still set up and the port lifeboat still in the davits. She had been driven ashore and wrecked three years before. 
Arrived Middlesbrough 19th December and received orders for La Goulette and back to Birkenhead.
Most of the crew paid off and the only ones immediately available were Spanish. But when they arrived, none of them could speak English, so they were sent away again. Frantic efforts to get a new crew who arrived on Christmas Eve, a few DRs amongst them who wouldnd't normally have been taken on. However, the whole lot turned out to be very good and stayed with the ship for some considerable time after that. We sailed on Christmas Eve and what a miserable day it was - grey and misty with rain.
Subsequent voyages: La Goulette, Savona, Bone, Port Etienne.

I got all the above from my diary and you may remember some of it!

Bob


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## Erimus

> Subsequent voyages: La Goulette, Savona, Bone, Port Etienne.


By I did you proud then...everyone else was moaning about Murmansk,Narvik & Seven Islands!

rgds
geoff ex Biscore Vessel Scheduler


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## Shipbuilder

I went to Seven Islands several times, but never to Murmansk or Narvik.
The Savona trip was the result of trying to make both halves of the voyage pay, taking coiled steel sheeting out. But bad weather in Biscay smashed it all up and did considerable damage to the ship. 
Our previous coiled steel outward voyage went OK, taking it to La Spezia and then loading in Bone.
Bob


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## doxfordsix

Sailing on the Sagamore in the early sixties gave a taste of the lifestyle to come for todays crews. We sailed to Seven Islands and I, as 3/E had a first trip Junior on watch with me. we arrived in the dark and the C/E (Mr. Wendt) asked if I could manage a few revs movement up the quay without turning out the stand by watch. this we did and by the end of the watch we were ready to go again.On deck after full away my Junior looked at the receding lights and said ' was that Canada, 3/o ? Putting on my Old Man Of The Sea act,I replied 'That was Canada,my boy'. Not much to tell his Mum!


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## kypros

DOXFORDSIX this was the only ore carrier I sailed on in my MN career being on deck I always recall the passages across the western in bad weather she was like a submarine more of her below water than above on the bridge doing wheel and lookout watches I would think if one of the lids went adrift it would be a one way trip to the bottom in quick time and no chance of any emergency calls.But she had a long sea going career and a lovely ship to sail in. KYPROS


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## doxfordsix

Kypros,I still have the scar from one of her semi - submersible crossings! The steward did not fasten the cabin door properly and on her next violent plunge the door swung against the bulkhead and my over bunk lamp crashed down on my face! Result a 1inch gash on my cheekbone. The steward (ex army medical orderly) wanted to stitch it but his boss woudnt let him. At my wedding, six weeks later, I sport a big red weal on the photograps! A happy ship.


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## loganevh

On that particular ship, anyone know how many winches were used to open hatch covers. I am building a model of a similar ship. Where would the winches be placed. thanks.


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## Les Gibson

I was lecky on Afghanistan and Iron Crown (Manged by Common Brothers) 1962-63. Similar design. 2 winches were used. I think the one on the port side opened the 3 fwd. hatches and one on the starboard side the 3 aft hatches. Only the winch drum was exposed outside of the midships deckhouse. The motors and control gear were inside if my memory serves me correctly.


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## loganevh

Les, thank you for the reply. I saw a top view of the ship you mentioned and I see the winch up forward. Did they use that those samson posts to run the cables and pulled from the center of the lids, or was a cable put around the drum and pulled from the sides. I have seen some ships where no samson posts were available. I was not sure if they were pulled from the sides of the hatch cover lids. If you did this, seems like would put unequal stress on the lids.


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## TOM ALEXANDER

Colin Torrie said:


> Hi Reg
> Ist Officer was Mr Taylor(quite a chatacter)
> The Bosun was from Cardiff (Great man)
> Did all the Iron Ore Ports...Narvik ....Oslo ....Seven Islands... Belle Isle...Lisbon....Algiers... Casablanca... Monrovia...Vitoria.
> Verey happy memories.


When we were in Oxelesund 1st. mate Taylor slipped a disc singing "Frankie & Johnnie" at a Christmas party. Senior apprentice (John?) up to watch keeping duty for the trip home to South Shields and yours truly doing paper work for Board of Trade survey under the watchful eye of Taylor as he lay in his bunk in his cabin. (Scribe)


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## Les Gibson

Got me there! I'm sure that the wires would have been run from the samson posts centrally. Maybe someone who worked on deck on these ships would know?


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## Erimus

'Tis a pity that only last year I was ordered to 'get shot' of my collection of old BISC(Ore) ships plans...which included Edenmore, the two Dalgleish carriers, Pennyworth & Ravensworth, Boltons Ripon & Rievaulx & Purvis Avisvale.......they could have been of use to many!

geoff


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## merrymagpie

*Edenmore*

Did my first trip as Cadet on the Edenmore, but after 40 years think I can be forgiven as to not remembering where the wires used to be run from!

Mike


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## Shipbuilder

Logan,
What ship are you building? In the meantime, here is a plan of the _Rievaulx_, complete with lead of wires to the winches. If you would like a hi resolution jpeg, just pm your e-mail address to me!
I have plans of _Sagamore_ somewhere, but we are in upheaval of decorating at the moment. I spent couple of years in _Sagamore_.
Bob


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## Shipbuilder

I am just completing an e-book covering two ore carriers, _Sagamore_ and _Silverdon_. I sailed in both of them! Please can anyone supply me with a scan of a photo of either or both of them _Sagamore_ and _Silverdon_ that I can put in this e-book? I do have a number of pictures taken aboard, but the more the merrier, so to speak. I am really looking for images that the donor actually took themselves, together with permission to publish. Although the book is specifically designed for a Nook, it will work in a computer as an Acrobat reader file.
Bob


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## Shipbuilder

Here is a selection of images from the book (now completed) as displayed on U-Tube
Bob
http://youtu.be/2zYzBgHhcgs


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## chadburn

The Sagamore had the look of the all aft BP Tankers that seemed to have a "dip" in their Hull.


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## Shipbuilder

_Sagamore_ had a very pronounced sheer and was quite shapely in a chubby sort of way. Very strong though, and lasted from 1957 until 1992 when scrapped. _Silverdon_ (Completed in 1973) was lost with nearly all hands in the South China sea in1998. I think there were 3 survivors of a company of 34!
Bob


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## johnnybistro

mr taylor was my father, he became captain taylor, left the sea in about 1971, bought a cafe in melton mowbray. died in 1983, aged 61. i also remember tao the cat!


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## Shipbuilder

Hello Johnny,
I remember your father & mother very well. I sailed with Dennis for two or three years in _Sagamore_. Sorry to hear of his early death. I may have met you as well, because when his wife visited in port with two children, I remember making them both small morse code practice sets joined by a long wire. 
Best wishes
Bob (Radio Officer _Sagamore_, 1963 - 1965)


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## johnnybistro

well bob! the joys of the interweb! i remember our morse code tappers well,we had them in our bedrooms! i have also found out an interesting fact as to how dad slipped his disc, he did it singing frankie and johnny at a christmas party! i have many fond memories of our holidays afloat,and the crew always seemed to have a family feel, albeit sometimes a dysfunctional one!i remember tao too, and his plaintive cries at night, as i slept in the ship's hospital....happy days. thanks for replying John.


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## expats

I've just come across this thread and read the bit about damage in a storm....I was junior R/O on the Ripon in late 1964...We were in a real 'hoolie' coming home from Sept Isles (the galley stoves wouldn't stay alight and we were living on corned beef sarnies....I remember chatting to the R/O of another carrier who had sustained serious damage in the same storm.....maybe it was the Sagamore?


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## alex clark

*Edenmore*

Any one still around that was on the edenmore when we where in collision in the English Channel 1964


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## Shipbuilder

Don't you mean _Edenmore_? I was in _Sagamore_ in 1964, finally leaving in the summer of 1965. No collision, but I do remember picking up either a distress or urgency signal from _Edenmore_ after they had a collision in the English Channel. They were badly damaged, but managed to make it to Falmouth.
Bob


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## atlanticbaron

Shipbuilder said:


> I joined the SAGAMORE in Glasgow on 18th March, '63 as radio officer. I left on 3rd June 1965 in Barry, to join the B & C group. Very happy years in SAGAMORE. Knew ship's cat very well. Went by the nickname of Mouser. During that time, some names I remember were:
> Captains Swann & Wiles.
> C/O Taylor, Phil Warne, Thorogood, Firth
> 2/O Usher, Dabbs,
> 3/0 Hindmarch, Dyson, Bennett, Hodges
> Deck cadets Badger, Farge, Kendrick, Blades, Jones, Watkins, Priestley
> Eng cadets Hockenhull
> C Eng Sunley, Wendt
> 2/E Pride, Morley
> 3/E Gee, Morgan
> C/Stwd Dutton, Thompson, Foot-Wengler
> Elec Binns, Gear
> Bosun Bool
> Carpenter Macalinden
> 
> Am still in touch with Phill Warne (ex C/O).
> 
> Several years later, sailed with one of the ABs (Alfie) in the WINDSOR CASTLE. He was tourist deckman & I was 4th R/0


I'm the BLADES on that list. Remember one voyage from Brazil when we cracked a piston ring in one of the lower cylinders. The ship was rolling heavily during the fix which took a good 12 hours to complete.


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## Shipbuilder

Keith, If I remember correctly. I also recall that in Oxelosund, you and I visited the ancient laid-up schooner _Svarto_, ex _Gerda_, built in 1906, that we found in a backwater! In fact, here you are, standing on the poop steps!
Bob Wilson ex R/O, _Sagamore_


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