# ss Palm, Plantain



## paveybe (Jan 6, 2011)

MY grandfather's diary of 1890 records a voyage on the SS Palm, sailing from Liverpool, and records passing the SS Plantain, which sounds like a sister ship. please can anyone tell me anything about these vessels?


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## hawkey01 (Mar 15, 2006)

Paveybe,

firstly welcome to SN.

Palm.
Built 1869 by MacNab Greenock 
Iron Hull.
Brtitish - Passenger/Cargo vessel.
1545 tons.
Launched 12.6.1869.
No more info.

Plantain.
Built 1879 by Royden of Liverpool - Yard No197.
British - Passenger/Cargo vessel.
2117 tons.
Length 96.2m x Beam 10.7m.
Owner G.H Horsfall.
Broken up England 10.1903.
No more info.

Hope this of some help.

Hawkey01


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## paveybe (Jan 6, 2011)

Thank you so much Hawkey01, that is great to know!

Barbara P.


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## erylro (Nov 20, 2012)

My great grandfather, Hilton Casson, in his application to be examined for a Master's Certificate lists in his Statement of Service experience as 3rd Mate on Plantain from 22/3/1882 to 3/7/1884, when he was in charge of the watch. He gives the tonnage of the Plantain as 1359 and the ship number as 81216. His next service was as 2nd Mate on Palm from 16/9/1884 to 6/2/1885, ship number 63185.


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## paveybe (Jan 6, 2011)

Thank you Erylro, that is most interesting. I wonder if they knew each other- did Plantain sail from Liverpool, and do you know what sort of cargo these ships would carry?


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## erylro (Nov 20, 2012)

My grandfather's application gives Liverpool as the Port of Registry for SS Plantain, but has no entry under Port of Registry for SS Palm, just the vessel's Official Number. He passed the examination for his ordinary master's certificate on 8th August 1884, but was found to be short of service, which, in terms of his recent experience, had been on Plantain. He then went on to make good his required service on Palm, serving on her for 4 months and 21 days as 2nd Mate, before being granted his Master's Certificate on 13 February 1885. I am sorry, however, that I have no information about whether the ships operated from Liverpool or what cargo they carried.
Do you know the dates of your grandfather's service on SS Palm?


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## BillH (Oct 10, 2007)

Information to supplement that already provided

PALM Iron hull steamer
O.N. 63185. 1,826grt. 1,379nrt. 299.5 x 31.8 x 25.8 (Feet and tenths)
120HP steam engine
1869: Built at Greenock
Mercantile Navy List 1870 - George Henry Horsfall, 17, James Street, Liverpool
By Mercantile Navy List 1890 - Basilio Papayani, 8 Fenwick Street, Liverpool
1898: British registry closed – sold foreign.

The National Archive, Kew - catalogue reference BT 110/62/75 = closed, ship registration papers



PLANTAIN Iron hull steamer
O.N. 81316. 2,117grt. 1,879nrt. 315.6 x 35.2 x 25.8 (Feet and tenths)
300HP steam engine
1879: Built at Liverpool
Mercantile Navy List 1880 - George Henry Horsfall, 17, James Street, Liverpool
By Mercantile Navy List 1890 - Basilio Papayani, 8 Fenwick Street, Liverpool
1903: Demolished

The National Archive, Kew - catalogue reference BT 110/190/3 = closed, ship registration papers


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## erylro (Nov 20, 2012)

Looking again at my great grandfather's application papers, what I thought was a "2" in the O.N. for SS Palm is quite probably a "3" with the lower half faded away - so 81316! Thanks for the correction, BillH.


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## paveybe (Jan 6, 2011)

Hello BillH and erylro, thank you both for the information, I am sorry I have not posted for a while. Find My Past.co.uk have released merchant seamen crew lists, and there is a record of the Plantain showing Hilton Cassell as 2nd Mate, and my grandfather Ernest Bowden as 3rd steward, it seems they would have known each other, perhaps a little bit upstairs-downstairs? Ernest Bowden recorded his voyage on the SS Palm from November 9th 1890 to Jan 12th 1891 and mentions the Plantain twice. The crew list shows 1891 as a date listed with these names, but perhaps I am interpreting it wrongly if HC got his Masters' cert in 1885...


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## Ron Stringer (Mar 15, 2005)

paveybe said:


> Hello BillH and erylro, thank you both for the information, I am sorry I have not posted for a while. Find My Past.co.uk have released merchant seamen crew lists...


You raised my hopes there, hoping to find details of former shipmates, but on checking the site I can only find the following reference, "23 February 2012. You can now search 359,000 records of Merchant Navy Seamen for the period 1835-1857 on findmypast.co.uk".

Good information but rather early for my uses. (Jester)


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## paveybe (Jan 6, 2011)

Hello Ron, sorry you had no luck. Find My Past has a second set of records, 1918-1941, its not perfect though, I could not find my Pa on there. FYP has a pay as you go system and I bought some credits, I then had notification about the lists from them, presumably because one of my searched names popped up on them, clever stuff


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## erylro (Nov 20, 2012)

Hello Paveybe
Thanks for the information about the availability of the Crew Lists on FindMyPast.co.uk, which will be very useful for my research. Great to learn that my great grandfather, Hilton Casson, and your grandfather, Ernest Bowden, _did_ serve on the same ship together in 1891. 
HC gained his 2nd Mate's Certificate in 1878, his 1st Mate's Certificate in 1880, and his Master's in 1885. Possession of these Certificates did not mean the holder automatically held a corresponding position, of course, only that they were qualified to do so. In 1924, HC, having been Master of at least three Ellerman & Papayanni vessels, was serving as 1st Mate on the _SS Estranello_, according to a C.R. 1 in his name date-stamped 24 March that year. 
I'm not sure whether the 'upstairs, downstairs' divide was very 'water-tight' (excuse the pun) on cargo vessels in those days. After he retired from the sea, I know that HC continued to receive visits in his home in Seaforth from a lady and her son from Manchester, whose only family connection to the sea was an uncle who was a Ship's Steward. HC's daughter was a signatory witness at her wedding, so the friendship must have been real. (Maybe the Crew Lists will confirm that they served together, too - unless, as Ron Stringer says, they are only available from 1835-1857 as yet on the web).


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## paveybe (Jan 6, 2011)

Thank you Erylro, that is most interesting. The Find My Past crew lists are available for 1918-1941 also, that's how I found out about our mutual ancestors, but I could not say how to find them; notification was unsolicited.
Do you know how a seaman signed onto a ship, in those days? Did they pick, or were they allocated?


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