# Lucania 104191



## BarryJ (May 28, 2007)

Does anyone have information on the trawler LUCANIA 106713 CF11 ? There seems to be confusion over her history.

A previous thread on "Ships Nostalgia" gives the following information from Chris (Hull trawlers):
LUCANIA 106713
Built 1894 / Edwards Bros / Yard No 492 / Launched 12.11.94 / L 101.0 / B 20.5 / Depth 10.8 / 49 Hp / 149 G / 52 N / Engined - N E Marine Engineering Co Ltd Sld.

LUCANIA H332 - HULL Owned 1897 by E J Williams / 1901 Henry West
Sold Renamed 1904 SOLOVON - Norway
renamed 1911 JULIE STREIFF Holland / N.V Sheepsoxpl. Mij,"DeMarezaton" ( J,Polderman & F . C Breitenstein managers ) YMuiden Holland
Scrapped 1938.

The problem with the 1904 sale is that I know she was landing fish at Milford up to 1906. My grandfather was skipper of her when he died in April 1906, and BT334/38 gives LUCANIA ON 106713, Cardiff, in the record of his death.

Cox's "Steam Trawlers and Liners of Grimsby" lists a LUCANIA 104191 GY724, also built 1894 by Edwards Bros, also 148 grt - with the same name changes.

Just to add to the confusion, the record of my grandfather's death gives the LUCANIA's tonnage as 73!

Help!

Barry
Milford Trawlers


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## Steve Farrow (Sep 9, 2006)

In Olsen's Almanack 1908, Lucania....... Built in 1895 at Beverley Off No. 106713. CF 11.
73 nt, 60 hp, Owners, J. J. Neale & H. West, Cardiff Call sign PKRB
Steve


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## treeve (Nov 15, 2005)

The confusion may be over the name as well .. and the ON.
John Stevenson says
From Lloyds Register of Shipping.
LUCIANA . Off No.106713.
Iron screw steamer ketch rigged,(fishing vessel) built Cochrane & Cooper,
Beverley, August 1896.
Triple expansion steam engine, one Scotch boiler , operating at 170lbs/sqin
pressure, supplied and fitted by C.D.Holmes & Co., Hull. Fitted with
electricity.
187 GRT, 112ft length, 21ft beam, 11depth.
Owners : Neale & West, Cardiff.
Skipper in 1911 was F.Hardisky.

From British Vessels Lost at Sea 1914 - 1918.
LUCIANA.
August 3rd 1916 , captured by a German U Boat 7 miles E.N.E. of Coquet
Island .
Vessel was sunk by a bomb placed on board.


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## BarryJ (May 28, 2007)

Treeve -

I assume that LUCIANA is a typo! I'm sure you've got the right one, as Fred Hardisty was skipper of her before my grandfather. So she was still with Neale & West in 1911. But was she H or GY before CF? 

Indeed, when was she CF11? In Olsen's 1897, there were only two CF registrations: SKOMER CF18 and WILLIAM GREEN CF51 (a smack); and in Olsen's 1905 there were still only two: SKOMER and ALERT CF22. (The record of Milford landings certainly give her as CF11 between 1904-06.)

And if the LUCANIA sunk in 1916 is the same one, why is she given as only 92 grt? 

Curiouser and curiouser!

Barry


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## treeve (Nov 15, 2005)

It is just that I have kept copies of a number of answers on Mariners_L,
that was what John Stevenson had written. I know there has been some
confusion over tonnages - as there were entries given as nrt and grt,
alternately - it was only by reference and cross reference between
registers and appropriation books here that I found that there was
confusion. I even found ONs being issued incorrectly until a directive
was sent around to clear up the issuing of numbers. Is there any chance
of anyone getting a look at the Appropriation Books for the period at
Grimsby and Hull. That should clear it up. Best Wishes, Raymond


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## treeve (Nov 15, 2005)

*ON issue*

I know this is like teaching granny how to suck eggs ...
but not everyone picking up this thread will have seen
the way in which Official Numbers were given.
The Port asked for blocks of numbers to be allocated to that particular port.
In that way, it was hoped, that each individual vessel had a specific number
allocated, so whatever her name change or owner change the number was 
carried with her. A letter of approval and allocation was sent out for each
group/block, and they were Appropriated to each vessel as well as the
required entry in the Register of Shipping and/or the Register of Fishing
Vessels. Attached is a letter to the Isles of Scilly, from the Registrar General in 1878.
Best Wishes, Raymond


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## treeve (Nov 15, 2005)

By the way, Barry, I take it you have looked in the Cardiff Registers?
Merchant records 1824-1994 are at Glamorgan Records Office,
King Edward VII Avenue, Cathays Park, Cardiff CF10 3NE.
I believe the URL is www.glamro.gov.uk.


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## BarryJ (May 28, 2007)

I have indeed, Treeve - and they have nothing on her at all, it seems. Certainly no 6-month agreements / log books, and no records of her skippers.

I've also tried Newfie, with the same result.

A mystery ship.

Is there any way of checking on the details of the LUCANIA which was sunk in 1916?

Barry


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## treeve (Nov 15, 2005)

If she had been registered at Cardiff she would have had an entry in the Registry. If she had her ON appropriated in another port, then that is where she will be found. You can't have a port registry CF without a Registry entry in the book. The system was too tight to allow it. I have seen letters of "knuckles rapped" for giving wrong ON, duplicate ON, and I have seen entries crossed out because conditions for registry were not complied with.
I can understand the fact of no papers, as these were carried with the vessel, also of no agreement books, they did get lost, but to lose a Register of some considerable size and weight bound in vellum and stitched with leather was not so easy ... mind you two have gone missing here in Cornwall.
If an entry can be found in any Shipping Register, it will confirm size and ON.
Some of them also give port of origin, previous registry, and most carry next port of de Novo registration. I suspect that you know all of this but I add it in case anyone else follows this thread later. Best Wishes, Raymond


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## treeve (Nov 15, 2005)

David Asprey writes
To fill in the odd gap, and to avoid confusion between two contemporary
LUCANIAs, both fishing vessels:

ON 106713 blt 1896 Cochrane & Cooper, Beverley
iron hull 187grt 73nrt 112.5 x 21.2 x 11.3ft
eng C D Holmes T3cy 60nhp 370ihp 10½knots
1896 E J Williams & Co Ltd, Hull as LUCANIA (reg Hull)
1900 Joshua Neale & Henry West, Cardiff
1904 (reg Cardiff)
1911 Neale & West Ltd, Cardiff
1911 sold to Japanese buyers

ON 113068 blt 1900 J Miller, St Monance
wood hull 92grt 12nrt 92.0 x 19.0 x 9.5ft
eng Shields Engineering Co C2cy 35nhp 210ihp 10knots
1900 The Irvin Steam Fishing Co Ltd, N Shields as LUCANIA (reg N
Shields)
1908 Richard Irvin & Sons Ltd, N Shields
1916 sunk by submarine


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## Roger Griffiths (Feb 10, 2006)

Hello all,
I have LUCANIA 106713 H332 on Hull register 19/8/96 transfered to Cardiff 27/10/1904. 73NRT.
Also transfered to Cardiff on same date MONARCH 106712 H331 

LUCANIA 104191 GY724 48NRT on Grimsby regisrer 20/11/1894 sold to Norwegians 16/3/1904
So two different boats.

regards
Roger


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## treeve (Nov 15, 2005)

Excellent Roger, so that makes three, and that agrees with David Asprey.
Another one tied up, except for the missing Cardiff Registry.
Best Wishes, Raymond


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## Roger Griffiths (Feb 10, 2006)

For the record.
LUCANIA 113068 SN108 34 NRT on North Shields register 25/6/1900 registry closed 19/8/1916 sunk 03/8/1916 by German submarine UB39 Kapitänleutnant Werner Fürbringer.

regards
Roger


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## BarryJ (May 28, 2007)

*Lucania*

Gentlemen - 

Thank you very much indeed for your collective wisdom and knowledge. I'm now confident that I have the details of the "right" LUCANIA, despite various misleading sources.

Very satisfying!

Barry


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## BarryJ (May 28, 2007)

*Cardiff Register*

Treeve -

Sorry - I gave you the wrong impression about the Cardiff Register. I consulted it about 8 years ago in connection with my family history research, well before I'd even thought about setting up a Milford trawlers website.

My purpose in consulting it was to discover more information about my grandfather, and I didn't make notes on the LUCANIA's technical details or ownership before and after the period of his time aboard her, as these weren't relevant to me at the time.

When I came to compile technical/historical details on her for the website this week, I'd forgotten that I'd even seen the register!

Thanks again for your help,
Barry


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