# Beams on Merchant Ships?



## Worldspan (Jan 2, 2012)

I've heard of beams having been rigged up on an unofficial basis. Were any ships officially fitted with beams? Is there anyone on the forum who rigged up an unofficial beam?
W


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## spongebob (Dec 11, 2007)

Are you referring to light beams ie searchlights or structural or width?


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## jimthehat (Aug 5, 2006)

spongebob said:


> Are you referring to light beams ie searchlights or structural or width?



or maybe hatch beams,every general cargo ship had them before the advent of steel roller hatch lids,
jim


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## kewl dude (Jun 1, 2008)

Or directional 'Beam' Radio Telegraph antenna's?

Greg Hayden
Vista, CA USA


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## tunatownshipwreck (Nov 9, 2005)

Wasn't the Radio Caroline antenna able to rotate?


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## TOM ALEXANDER (Dec 24, 2008)

Is "Worldespan" referring perhaps to derricks and their various arrangements and capacities??


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## Worldspan (Jan 2, 2012)

Sorry but I'd assumed that my query on the Radio Room forum would have been understood as meaning rotatable antennas that fire a signal in a particular direction. By the same token the received signal is also stronger. Radio amateurs frequently have such aerials mounted on masts.
W


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## tiachapman (Mar 25, 2008)

on a baron boat once 
i used to say BEAM ME UP SCOTTY


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## LouisB (Dec 23, 2007)

Worldspan said:


> I've heard of beams having been rigged up on an unofficial basis. Were any ships officially fitted with beams? Is there anyone on the forum who rigged up an unofficial beam?
> W


 In the early 80's, when crossing the China Sea and as far as Japan, I rigged a random 20/30 metre long wire antenna, which in turn fed an ATU. I was not an R.O. but a keen dx, CB enthusiast and had on board a 26/28 mtz ssb transceiver. Propagation conditions were brilliant for a few hours in the afternoon, so good that irrespective of the antenna alignment I was able to work (voice) Belgium, UK, Italy, Philippines etc on 12 watts pep. I had a 200 watt linear amp but did not use it as it understandably caused some swamping on other crew s.w. receivers. It did not matter whether the long wire was rigged fore and aft or athwartships. as long as it was tuned there was no difference in reception reports. Many QSL cards sent to me (plain envelope) via one of the many companies overseas offices and then forwarded to the ship.


LouisB. (Scribe)


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## trotterdotpom (Apr 29, 2005)

LouisB said:


> In the early 80's, when crossing the China Sea and as far as Japan, I rigged a random 20/30 metre long wire antenna, which in turn fed an ATU. I was not an R.O. but a keen dx, CB enthusiast and had on board a 26/28 mtz ssb transceiver. Propagation conditions were brilliant for a few hours in the afternoon, so good that irrespective of the antenna alignment I was able to work (voice) Belgium, UK, Italy, Philippines etc on 12 watts pep. I had a 200 watt linear amp but did not use it as it understandably caused some swamping on other crew s.w. receivers. It did not matter whether the long wire was rigged fore and aft or athwartships. as long as it was tuned there was no difference in reception reports. Many QSL cards sent to me (plain envelope) via one of the many companies overseas offices and then forwarded to the ship.
> 
> 
> LouisB. (Scribe)


Breaker Breaker.... whatever skips your skywave. Official ship frequencies only went up to 22 mc/s ... wtf is a MTZ? I used to contact UK from Japan quite easily on 12 mc/s at certain times - forget now, maybe late afternoon. MSGs hurtling across the North Pole ... well, I thought it was cool.

I too was confused by the term "beam" - hatch beam, beam trawler, lighthouse beam ... I must have led a sheltered life. I certainly never had any equipment capable of beaming transmissions anywhere ... of course, with my superior knowledge of radio propagation, I managed without it.

John T


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## Varley (Oct 1, 2006)

Scotty?


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## Bill Greig (Jul 4, 2006)

There were of course those whirly things up high on mast that had a directional antenna, radar wasn't it.


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## LouisB (Dec 23, 2007)

trotterdotpom said:


> Breaker Breaker.... whatever skips your skywave. Official ship frequencies only went up to 22 mc/s ... wtf is a* MTZ?* I used to contact UK from Japan quite easily on 12 mc/s at certain times - forget now, maybe late afternoon. MSGs hurtling across the North Pole ... well, I thought it was cool.
> 
> I too was confused by the term "beam" - hatch beam, beam trawler, lighthouse beam ... I must have led a sheltered life. I certainly never had any equipment capable of beaming transmissions anywhere ... of course, with my superior knowledge of radio propagation, I managed without it.
> 
> John T


*Megahertz* I meant - many moons since I practiced any dodgy radiation (Bounce) Usually operated with a made up fictional Panamanian prefix followed by MM (maritime mobile). This was to confuse the Italian stations who were calling cq - quite often running 2Kw with rather unstable frequency characteristics. Was also learning morse in those days - quite often listening on Portishead's traffic list for our vessel - gave Sparky a few more minutes playing darts. .

Not made up John - this was just the surface - happy days indeed.


LouisB. (Scribe)


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## tsell (Apr 29, 2008)

I thought it meant the beam on the OM's face as he cracked open his first bottle of Johnny Walker from the bond, as soon as we dropped the pilot! [=P]

Taff


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## woodend (Nov 23, 2009)

I thought this was going to refer to the lack of cross beams on the latest passenger ships when looking up or down in the decks deep atrium. What the hell holds them together always worries me. Always think back to the ship construction lecturer at Pre-sea(1954). If I remember rightly his name was Capt. Ferryman, his stressing the need for athwartship and longditudinal strength.[=P]


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## johnvvc (Feb 8, 2008)

tunatownshipwreck said:


> Wasn't the Radio Caroline antenna able to rotate?


I seem to remember the Pirate Radio ships mostly had vertical antennas so they were non-directional. Had they been directional it could have been a pain when the ships swung at anchor...

Here's a youtube video of Caroline doing some antenna work, 'elf and safety hadn't been invented then !!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RA6dw7a_MEU

and a few pictures of the antennas...

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=R...X&ved=0ahUKEwigq4K4rpvNAhUkBcAKHaf8CsIQsAQIQQ

Apologies if you've seen these before...(Ouch)


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## King Ratt (Aug 23, 2005)

Hello again LB. I always knew you were a frustrated sparks.

73

Rab T


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## King Ratt (Aug 23, 2005)

johnvvc said:


> I seem to remember the Pirate Radio ships mostly had vertical antennas so they were non-directional. Had they been directional it could have been a pain when the ships swung at anchor...
> 
> Here's a youtube video of Caroline doing some antenna work, 'elf and safety hadn't been invented then !!!
> 
> ...


Radio Caroline North fitted with two xtal controlled 10 Kw 
Continental Electronic transmitters. They fed via a combining unit to a 168 foot high aerial of quarter wave folded dipole construction witha sausage aerial forming the other leg. These details taken from the book "When Pirates Ruled the Waves" by Paul Harris. I have no idea what constitutes a sausage aerial.


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## trotterdotpom (Apr 29, 2005)

#13. Sorry if you thought I was inferring that you were making things up Louis, that wasn't my intention. Just never understood what folk got out of CB.

John T


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## LouisB (Dec 23, 2007)

trotterdotpom said:


> #13. Sorry if you thought I was inferring that you were making things up Louis, that wasn't my intention. Just never understood what folk got out of CB.
> 
> John T


No problem John. I was never a CB'er in the old Breaker, breaker style and only really used the kit for DXing internationally. I also did the same with television transmissions and getting reception originating over 2000 miles away. The 26/28 system did come in handy on occasion. The R.O. we carried (from somewhere overseas)  was rather strange and as soon as we were deep sea he told the OM that the "radio was broken". Seemingly he could only use MF and we were out of range at that time. The OM went spare as he was desperate to get the Gulf port rotation. I contacted a friend in Belgium who contacted our company office and relayed over to me the correct rotation. I let the Mate know who passed it on to the OM (No questions asked) and everything worked out fine. The RO? departed on arrival!. Turned out he was using his Brothers ticket to get the job.

@Rab (KR)

Yes Rab, you are probably right - different world these days, too many prying eyes who wish to know the ins and outs of a cats backside instead of just (somehow) getting the job done irrespective of how you do it.


LouisB. (Scribe)


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## David Fyfe (Nov 19, 2011)

Worldspan must be thoroughly disappointed at the several supercilious answers to his query. Guess too many folk have been consuming pusser's rum recently. 
Quite rightly, mentioning 'Beam' on a radio interest forum doesn't mean anything wooden, or structural steel.
Had I received similar responses to my research on Beme Marine RDF equipment last year & earlier, I would've been really pee'd off.

Regards, David


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## Worldspan (Jan 2, 2012)

Thanks.
W


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## John Dryden (Sep 26, 2009)

''supercilious''simply splendid word there David...get back in there.(The radio room).


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## tsell (Apr 29, 2008)

David Fyfe said:


> Worldspan must be thoroughly disappointed at the several supercilious answers to his query. Guess too many folk have been consuming pusser's rum recently.
> Quite rightly, mentioning 'Beam' on a radio interest forum doesn't mean anything wooden, or structural steel.
> Had I received similar responses to my research on Beme Marine RDF equipment last year & earlier, I would've been really pee'd off.
> 
> Regards, David


Lighten up Dai Bach! Most of us on this great site are old sailors who enjoy a bit of levity to brighten up our days. There's no intention to denigrate Worldspan's thread - or anyone else's for that matter.
Many of my threads and posts are often hi-jacked by jocular remarks and I enjoy every one of them.
I don't find any comments on this thread to be superwotsisname, - smart-arced yes, including mine, but then that's life! Enjoy it while you can! (==D)

Taff


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## tiachapman (Mar 25, 2008)

beaming at at that reply


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## spongebob (Dec 11, 2007)

spongebob said:


> Are you referring to light beams ie searchlights or structural or width?


I picked up the thread from the home page which does not designate the topic unless you look at the very small print at the top of the page.
Perhaps the ambiguity and brevity of your query prompted the comments but rest assured that these were meant in levity. I hope that you have got the answers you seek says me beamingly.

Bob


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## richardwakeley (Jan 4, 2010)

Yes, I do remember seeing beams (Yagi) on some US ships. I'm guessing they were useful for phone calls through the US coast stations. Also US amateurs could do phone patching, giving free phone calls. I seem to also recall seeing them on Russsian ships, but never on UK ship. Never seen one in the GMDSS era,
other than TV.


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## tunatownshipwreck (Nov 9, 2005)

David Fyfe said:


> Worldspan must be thoroughly disappointed at the several supercilious answers to his query. Guess too many folk have been consuming pusser's rum recently.
> Quite rightly, mentioning 'Beam' on a radio interest forum doesn't mean anything wooden, or structural steel.
> Had I received similar responses to my research on Beme Marine RDF equipment last year & earlier, I would've been really pee'd off.
> 
> Regards, David


Referring to an American beverage made by a Jim Beam?


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## BobClay (Dec 14, 2007)

I had a beam once .. then the battery went in the torch and it faded away.


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## Varley (Oct 1, 2006)

I have in the back of my mind (not capacious) that high gain aerials were not permitted in the MM service.

Surely we all had a Yagi for TV - and some of that 'us' will have had lashed up to a searchlight or similar so an obliging Mate can aim it (seemingly optimum with no relation to geographic relationship with transmitter) on request from smokeroom by telephone.


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## David Fyfe (Nov 19, 2011)

There is jocularity, and there is sniping. Worldspan submitted a genuine query about radio beams, and no doubt expected an informative technical response. RDF & associated beams have been part of maritime navigation for several generations of radio officers. So perhaps its not too much to ask them to respond politely & in a professional manner.
No one mentioned the old Consol system, no one mentioned the old massive Decca system & its adaption for use by Shipmate. No one mentioned the radio beams to & from vessels used in the past by S & R aircraft - Sarbe, Violet Picture, on 243MHz. Yes, its all satellite orientated these days, but I'm sure Worldspan would appreciate hearing of folks past experiences in a friendly & informative manner. 
'Taking the micky' of non sea-going forum members has no place on Ships Nostalgia, I submit.

Regards, David


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## BobClay (Dec 14, 2007)

Something tells me you'll never be invited to TV's Grumpy Old Men. :sweat:


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## Varley (Oct 1, 2006)

I don't think you can claim hyperbolic navigation systems or consol as using directional aerials onboard ship. Whether their interference techniques using different locations count as beams I will accept under superior instruction but clearly nothing to do with shipborne equipment aerials (as isn't what's on SAR aircraft).

Only DF counts and then I am not sure if it was really high gain or simply had directional gain attributes (gain being capable of 'down' too).


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## meechingman (Feb 20, 2005)

I've seen a photo - on here, I'm sure - of a vessel, possibly Soviet, with a large-ish log periodic antenna on a short, stubby 'tower'. Finding it again would be great fun, no doubt.


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## BobClay (Dec 14, 2007)

Something tells me Soviet ships, Merchant or otherwise, might not just be banging out the Sunday message back in the day. Their Sunday messages might just have been making it as far as Lubyanka. If that's so, a bit of wire strung between the masts might have not been deemed suitable.

:sweat:


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## Wismajorvik (Dec 29, 2011)

*Manhattan*

Recollect the tanker Manhattan had an hf beam installed while attempting the northwest passage. Believe it did not stand up to the weather. Was definitely not there when the vessel was used as a rice barge in Chittagong.


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## Engine Serang (Oct 15, 2012)

In the early part of the thread I thought he was talking about the Beam that the official number was carved into. Nowadays called the IMO Number. A bit of confusion rather than sniping.


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## Troppo (Feb 18, 2010)

Here is a proper reply:

B\)


I remember a friend who was an R/O in SS Canberra/GBVC told me that they trialed a rotatable HF yagi for rx. It was installed on/near the funnels aft with the other rx antennas. 

It worked well, apparently. Alas, it was removed for aesthetic reasons.

This was circa late 60s, as I understand it.


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## tunatownshipwreck (Nov 9, 2005)

Varley said:


> I have in the back of my mind (not capacious) that high gain aerials were not permitted in the MM service.
> 
> Surely we all had a Yagi for TV - and some of that 'us' will have had lashed up to a searchlight or similar so an obliging Mate can aim it (seemingly optimum with no relation to geographic relationship with transmitter) on request from smokeroom by telephone.


I remember most US ships had a remote-controlled motor for their TV yagis, 1960s and later.


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## BobClay (Dec 14, 2007)

When I sailed on the Hudson Friendship in the early 70's (my first supertanker) we had a remote controlled motorised TV antenna. Even though the ship was brand new, I seem to remember it soon suc***bed to the terrors of exposure and corrosion.


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## Farmer John (Feb 22, 2012)

The first thing that came into my mind when the first post went up was
"Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye."

I didn't post it as it seemed open to misinterpretation. My standards have fallen.


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## Troppo (Feb 18, 2010)

I had three rotatable TV yagis on one ship. They worked perfectly for 8 years.

They were proper marinised versions.


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## jimthehat (Aug 5, 2006)

David Fyfe said:


> There is jocularity, and there is sniping. Worldspan submitted a genuine query about radio beams, and no doubt expected an informative technical response. RDF & associated beams have been part of maritime navigation for several generations of radio officers. So perhaps its not too much to ask them to respond politely & in a professional manner.
> No one mentioned the old Consol system, no one mentioned the old massive Decca system & its adaption for use by Shipmate. No one mentioned the radio beams to & from vessels used in the past by S & R aircraft - Sarbe, Violet Picture, on 243MHz. Yes, its all satellite orientated these days, but I'm sure Worldspan would appreciate hearing of folks past experiences in a friendly & informative manner.
> 'Taking the micky' of non sea-going forum members has no place on Ships Nostalgia, I submit.
> 
> Regards, David


DAVID,are you suggesting that only radio officers should have answered the original post?when I (a deck officer)read the post i saw no reference to anything remotely radio,so took it to be about the bane of my apprenticeship namely hatch beams,sorry for appearing to act in a normal way,
jim


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## spongebob (Dec 11, 2007)

Only a very tender footed member could take these replies as sniping, in fact the overall participation revealed a few comedians .
Is beaming anything to do with direction finding (DF) , this was the only extra aid aboard Union Co ships on the NZ coast , those two rings set at 90 degrees to one another that them up stairs fiddled with.

Bob


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## BobClay (Dec 14, 2007)

As I remember those DF loops gave you a figure of 8 polar diagram until you switched in the sense aerial. I suppose technically that's a beamer .... but I prefer the Audi !!! (Oh dear, I should have posted this on the "It's an age thing" thread.)

(Smoke)


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## tsell (Apr 29, 2008)

David Fyfe said:


> There is jocularity, and there is sniping. Worldspan submitted a genuine query about radio beams, and no doubt expected an informative technical response. RDF & associated beams have been part of maritime navigation for several generations of radio officers. So perhaps its not too much to ask them to respond politely & in a professional manner.
> No one mentioned the old Consol system, no one mentioned the old massive Decca system & its adaption for use by Shipmate. No one mentioned the radio beams to & from vessels used in the past by S & R aircraft - Sarbe, Violet Picture, on 243MHz. Yes, its all satellite orientated these days, but I'm sure Worldspan would appreciate hearing of folks past experiences in a friendly & informative manner.
> 'Taking the micky' of non sea-going forum members has no place on Ships Nostalgia, I submit.
> 
> Regards, David


Hi David! Look mate, nobody on this thread is sniping or 'taking the mickey', as you will gather if you spend time looking around the site at the many threads. You will see what we mean by levity and jocularity and come to realise that it's inherent in most of us old farts, so please don't go looking for posts that don't fit in with your own perception of normality, because as many of our members will confirm, a large percentage of us, including myself, are not normal anyway!
Obviously, I don't know you, but you do give me the impression that you have a dour countenance - though I hope it's not so - and I get the thought that if you hooked into our 'Stormy Weather' forum, you might even come to like us.

Best regards

Taff


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## LouisB (Dec 23, 2007)

tsell said:


> Hi David! Look mate, nobody on this thread is sniping or 'taking the mickey', as you will gather if you spend time looking around the site at the many threads. You will see what we mean by levity and jocularity and come to realise that it's inherent in most of us old farts, so please don't go looking for posts that don't fit in with your own perception of normality, because as many of our members will confirm, *a large percentage of us, including myself, are not normal anyway!*
> Obviously, I don't know you, but you do give me the impression that you have a dour countenance - though I hope it's not so - and I get the thought that if you hooked into our 'Stormy Weather' forum, you might even come to like us.
> 
> Best regards
> ...


Like it - about sums us up really. (Hippy)


LouisB. (Scribe)


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## trotterdotpom (Apr 29, 2005)

BobClay said:


> As I remember those DF loops gave you a figure of 8 polar diagram until you switched in the sense aerial. I suppose technically that's a beamer .... but I prefer the Audi !!! (Oh dear, I should have posted this on the "It's an age thing" thread.)
> 
> (Smoke)


When you switched in the "sense aerial", the "figure of 8" diagram became a "Cardioid Diagram" - quite appropriate for a lot of us on SN. Everything old is new again.

John T

PS I got the impression that Worldspan was requesting info about directional transmissions beamed from ships, not reception of navigational systems like Decca. I personally never heard of such a thing (directional transmissions from ships that is).


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## Engine Serang (Oct 15, 2012)

I consider SN to be similar to the BBC, as having a duty to inform, educate and entertain. But as Eric Morecambe would say, not necessarily in that order. 
Sniping would indicate a degree of nastiness which I have never come across on these pages, stupidity occasionally but nastiness never.
Do you remember when you came off Watch at 04.00 hrs and relaxed with the Second Mate over a few cold Tennants (remember the girls on the cans), and had a bit of chit chat about the Company, the Job, MUFC, Stephanie McLean..... Post to SN in a similar vein and all will be well with the world.


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## Wismajorvik (Dec 29, 2011)

Ss Manhattan in the Arctic. HF beam antenna visible in several views:-
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FPoHcpr1jC0


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## tunatownshipwreck (Nov 9, 2005)

Wismajorvik said:


> Ss Manhattan in the Arctic. HF beam antenna visible in several views:-
> https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FPoHcpr1jC0


Probably futile under auroral conditions.


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## GBXZ (Nov 4, 2008)

Worldspan
The USN/US Marine Corps had directional log-periodic HF antennas installed on their command ships, as these were converted aircraft carriers they the space to do so !
We often saw directional VHF/UHF antennas on Soviet AGI (intelligence gathering) trawlers, probably for more gain and for direction finding purposes.

Marconi Communication Systems supplied the R1760 HF rotatable log-periodic antenna for military applications, judging by the picture it’s about the size of a tennis court and sits on a guyed mast.

Regards


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## ernhelenbarrett (Sep 7, 2006)

Way back when ,in my early days with OTC in Oz it was called the Beam Radio Service as it was directed to the UK and vice versa and we still used it daily to list vessels for PCH
Ern Barrett


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## Ian Hay (May 26, 2013)

This thread has reminded me of an occasion when studying for my MRGC at South Shields. A couple of us students were interested in short-wave listening & Ham radio & were aware of Yagi aerials. So during the course of one lesson on aerials,we asked the lecturer about such things. His reply was quite astonishing. In his rather pompous voice (he was ex-RN Officer) he responded "Yagi aerials? I've never heard of such things,they don't exist!" (Whaaa) We never raised the subject again (LOL)


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## spongebob (Dec 11, 2007)

Now s the time for me to ask, "what s a Yagi aerial?"

Bob


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## King Ratt (Aug 23, 2005)

spongebob said:


> Now s the time for me to ask, "what s a Yagi aerial?"
> 
> Bob


Look at most rooftop TV antennas. They are multi element Yagi types with high gain and directivity.


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## Ian Hay (May 26, 2013)

spongebob said:


> Now s the time for me to ask, "what s a Yagi aerial?"
> 
> Bob


A beam (Jester)


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## holland25 (Nov 21, 2007)

Yagi was a Japanese engineer. If you follow this link you can read all about him.

http://www.radiocomms.com.au/content/industry/article/yagi-the-man-behind-the-antenna-647231587


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## BobClay (Dec 14, 2007)

One of the most famous 'beams' in history. Acres and acres of dipoles that found some of the strangest things in the Universe.
Jocelyn Bell and the aerial that found them.
This would definitely not look good on a ship ....

:sweat:

http://www.sciencemuseum.org.uk/HoMImages/Components/143/14344_3.png


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## Duncan112 (Dec 28, 2006)

Yes, she did all the work but others became Nobel Laureates - still referred to in certain circles as the No Bell prize


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## tunatownshipwreck (Nov 9, 2005)

How noble.


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## BobClay (Dec 14, 2007)

Yes I always thought Jocelyn Bell didn't get a deal on that one, although her work is well recognised in the scientific community. Most everything I've ever read on neutron stars and pulsars gives her a mention.

Another lady, almost forgotten now, was Rosalind Franklin who's work on X-ray crystallography pretty much opened the door to DNA structure and allowed Watson, Crick and Wilkins to get their Nobel Prize.


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## Barrie Youde (May 29, 2006)

#15

Might it have been Captain Twentyman? He was our neighbour in Queens Drive, Prenton, in the 1950s.


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## Duncan112 (Dec 28, 2006)

This is worth a listen http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b016812j I see she's also ben on Desert Island Discs


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## spongebob (Dec 11, 2007)

Once upon a time a beam
Was mistaken for a smile
Until one post on our SN
Deemed it to seem to rile
But the rude were subdued 
In next to no time flat
To enable all those Sparkies
To chat about this and that

Bob


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## Cisco (Jan 29, 2007)

tunatownshipwreck said:


> Referring to an American beverage made by a Jim Beam?


You would need a pretty big ship to rig up a decent Beverage Ant....

I keep planning to set one up in the North 40 down on the Campo but I reckon the cows would do a number on it.....


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## BobClay (Dec 14, 2007)

Rather than get so upset,
Get a neutron star as a pet,
That way when they mention beams,
You'll understand, or so it seems.

Cos when unclear when dropping words,
It's not unlike when dropping turds,
Adjectives, verbs and words that fit
Will spare you dropping in the sh1t.


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## tunatownshipwreck (Nov 9, 2005)

Cisco said:


> You would need a pretty big ship to rig up a decent Beverage Ant....
> 
> I keep planning to set one up in the North 40 down on the Campo but I reckon the cows would do a number on it.....


It's amazing what those pull in at a remote location. On the Oregon coast we heard a lot of AM (MW) stations in the South Pacific.


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