# Kitchens



## Herb Convery

I notice that there is never a mention of the kitchens on Liners. I sailed on nearly all the Cunarders, the Mary, Lizzie, Caronia, saxonia, Ivernia, Carinthia, and when they changed their names I was there. I held various positions from KP to Leading cook. As a change of pace Fish Cook on the Northern Star one trip. I never ever thought about tramping, and my one experience was a Shell tanker, Helisoma, as 2nd cook and baker I think I lasted about 3 weeks and paid off in Sweden.
Couldn't wait to get back to the big C's. I suppose this will raise some hackles of the die hard trampers. Thanks


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## Sister Eleff

Being a non professional sea farer, I always thought the kitchen on a ship was called the galley! Is this not the case on larger passenger ships?

By the way Herb, did you manage to track down your friend, Leslie Ashby?


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## Ray Mac

Sister Eleff said:


> Being a non professional sea farer, I always thought the kitchen on a ship was called the galley! Is this not the case on larger passenger ships?
> 
> By the way Herb, did you manage to track down your friend, Leslie Ashby?


Galley!! never heard of kitchen onboard a ship, next we will have Chimney instead of funnel.(Pint)(Applause)(Whaaa) Stairs not Gangway.

Ray


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## jg grant

Galley indeed! I heard that one of the Q'nard Clyde built boats was minus a galley and not discovered until sign on day ??. Dunno,but the nearest I ever got to one of them(thank Christ) was mid Atlantic on Charlie Hills Toronto City when I got blood poisoning and a transfer at sea was considered but conditions were too rough, for them I suspect , so I got dealt to by radio through the chief steward and skipper who stuck needles in me here and there. Happy days!


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## ALAN TYLER

When I sailed on the Carinthia a Cunarder the main passenger galley was called a "Kitchen" only the crew "Kitchen" was called a Galley!!! In the kitchen they had chefs in the crew galley it was cooks. Enjoyed all my time at sea regardless of what type of ship.


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## Mad Landsman

It seems that the Passenger accommodation and feeding and all that is involved is now called 'The Hotel' on Cruise ships.
As Hotels, shoreside, have kitchens then it follows that the place where food is prepared is called the Kitchen, so that the punter is not confused. 

And - In my opinion the only person entitled to be called a Chef (de Cuisine) is the boss. Anyone else is a cook, or lower.


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## ALAN TYLER

Mad Landsman said:


> It seems that the Passenger accommodation and feeding and all that is involved is now called 'The Hotel' on Cruise ships.
> As Hotels, shoreside, have kitchens then it follows that the place where food is prepared is called the Kitchen, so that the punter is not confused.
> 
> And - In my opinion the only person entitled to be called a Chef (de Cuisine) is the boss. Anyone else is a cook, or lower.


So if theres only one cook in the kitchen they,re a chef!!!


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## jg grant

Well said Alan! The word translates literally to chief but a kitchen is or was run along very strict lines and was called a brigade. So you would have chef de cuisine and then sous or second chef, this was followed by chef de parties who were in charge of there own departments, larder, saucier, patisierre, entremetier, rotissierre and so on . In big hotels it got a bit silly, everyone thinking they were superior to the next department so it took a strong hand to keep all these egos in check. In smaller places you had to be more of a bit allrounder and double up on positions. The point I am making is that the head chef is entirely responsible for everything that goes out on a plate and he cannot be there 24/7 so he must know that in his absence what goes out is to his standard because his name is tied to it. Today has seen a complete turnaround, traditional food has gone, and kitchen French is obsolete. We have got over the French inferiority complex. All good!


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## Ray Mac

jg grant said:


> Well said Alan! The word translates literally to chief but a kitchen is or was run along very strict lines and was called a brigade. So you would have chef de cuisine and then sous or second chef, this was followed by chef de parties who were in charge of there own departments, larder, saucier, patisierre, entremetier, rotissierre and so on . In big hotels it got a bit silly, everyone thinking they were superior to the next department so it took a strong hand to keep all these egos in check. In smaller places you had to be more of a bit allrounder and double up on positions. The point I am making is that the head chef is entirely responsible for everything that goes out on a plate and he cannot be there 24/7 so he must know that in his absence what goes out is to his standard because his name is tied to it. Today has seen a complete turnaround, traditional food has gone, and kitchen French is obsolete. We have got over the French inferiority complex. All good!


My sons a exec Head chef on a cruise liner with a brigade of 48.

Ray


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## Peter Fielding

Burned Toast said:


> My sons a exec Head chef on a cruise liner with a brigade of 48.
> 
> Imagine that!!! With a dad called Burned Toast!!!


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## Ray Mac

Peter Fielding said:


> Burned Toast said:
> 
> 
> 
> My sons a exec Head chef on a cruise liner with a brigade of 48.
> 
> Imagine that!!! With a dad called Burned Toast!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nice one(Applause)(Pint)(Bounce)(Whaaa)
> 
> Ray(Eat)
Click to expand...


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## Mad Landsman

ALAN TYLER said:


> So if there's only one cook in the kitchen they're a chef!!!


If you are the only cook in the galley or kitchen then you can call yourself anything you like - Who's going to argue?



jg grant said:


> ...and kitchen French is obsolete. We have got over the French inferiority complex. All good!


But the job descriptions are still in French.


On cruise ships nowadays there are very little opportunities for visiting operational parts of the ship, apart from the galley, which they tend to describe as a 'kitchen visit' when one can 'meet all the chefs' - not kitchen staff, but chefs.


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## jg grant

Hi ML. you are correct , it is still in use but it does not have the importance attached to it that it once had. We use French terminology in the same way that we use Italian in music and that is because they developed their respective fields long before anyone else in the West at least. Today we can see blends of dishes from Europe and the Med to Asia and everywhere in fact. So when I did my time it was essential to know Escoffiere, Larouse and Careme. The repertoire de la cuisine by Saulniere was vital. Now a new wave of chefs have arrived and we have the same percentage of good, talented, showmen, egomaniacs, ******s and TV crossover entrtainers. I'm out of it and I wish all those who are still in the biz the very best of luck.


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## kewl dude

"And - In my opinion the only person entitled to be called a Chef (de Cuisine) is the boss. Anyone else is a cook, or lower."

A person has to have a measurable target to strive for as an incentive to improve their job skills.

Aboard ship I began as a Coal Passer, then a Wiper, Fireman/Watertender, Oiler, 3 A/E, 2 A/E, 1 A/E. My framed Chiefs License hangs on my office wall above my monitor, but when I was sailing 1 A/E I routinely earned twice what the C/E did, and I was too young to be interested in an office job.

I worked maintenance management @ two Westin Hotels and all staff have clearly defined titles. In the kitchens there are different levels of chefs and chefs who specialize in one type of food, or process, all under the eye of the Executive Chef. 

Traditionally the Executive Chefs Office (aka The Fish Bowl) is in the center of the Main Kitchen, raised a few steps above kitchen floor level, large windows on all walls and includes a small dining room. 

When a chef is working on something new they bring it to the Chef's office to be tasted. Upper level day shift assistant chefs typically take turns preparing lunch for them all that they share together in the Chef's Dining room.

The Chef's dining room is a good PR tool. When a large group is shopping their event around to all venue's, sitting in the Chef's Office with the Executive Chef one evening watching a banquet like they are planning, being executed, while dining on their chosen menu, sells a lot of large events. There is the "back of the house visit" that adds to the cachet. 

Each food outlet has their own kitchen. Each kitchen has their own Head Chef, and assistant Chefs. Although typically all the kitchens are clustered together in one large space, there is a sound proof wall with a pair of 180 degree swing doors from the main kitchen to another. The main kitchen is Banquet Food Preparation. The kitchens share things like fully automatic flight dishwashers, and other large appliances like rotary ovens. 

I knew individuals who started as a dish washer at a Westin Hotel and years later were Executive Chef. Westin has a grueling many years Chef's training program in the Traditional French Style. As one moves up the ladder they return to corporate usually annually for additional schooling.

Everyone who was accepted into the Westin training programs, regardless of their track, work weeks in EVERY department, to acclimate them with what every staff person does. So I had up close and personal contact with each trainee. Trainee's wear the uniform of the department they are working and are expected to be exposed to everything hourly employees do.

Greg Hayden


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## Mad Landsman

OK, let me clarify my comment:

On the television we have numerous programmes involving preparation, cooking and presentation of food; Many of them quite interesting, some amusing, some puerile. 
The common feature of all these people is that they are referred as to 'Chefs', we have celebrity 'chefs', amateur(?) 'chefs', 'chefs' who are really food journalists, and we also have some people who are really Chefs who earn their living in a real kitchen. 
In many restaurants and on many ships anyone who puts on whites and works in a kitchen or galley seems to be called a 'chef'. 

It is the misuse of the word to which I object - The word has been adopted from the French and should have a real meaning close to its original meaning.


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## Jeff Taylor

Herb: Did you ever work with John Bainbridge? As an aside, I knew Commodore Marr and sailed on QE(1) near the end. Even got a bridge, working alleyway, kitchen, and engine room tour. He even let me take the helm for a very brief time (despite my best efforts I was terrible and overcorrected causing the ship to hunt port to starboard constantly!).


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## Old Janner

*Galley's and Chief Cooks*

Having read the kitchen thread and other comments on Chefs etc.
Some of you will be surprised to know that in the early 60's the Chief & Ships Cook, "as signed on" was known as the "Doc"
Seemingly going back to the early days when the cook was the best person to Lob off a Damaged foot or Hand, with further treatment from the tar bucket.
My last trip as Chief Cook I was still referred to as "Doc"
Trying to keep your Galley together, with Storm bars, only half filled pots and one hand for yourself on a tramp in the Western Ocean, was a work of art and a profession, (keeping fried eggs round and not joined together sliding around in fat or oil, was done with Beer Cans cut down with bottoms cut out wedged into the frying pan and the egg's would sit nicely, work of art!

Old Janner.


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## jg grant

Hi ML #15 you're technically correct but in common useage we have everything from exec chefs down to commis chefs and nobody gets too worried about terminology. Old Janner #17 , mate, been there, done that , Toronto City , Winter North Atlantic, we called it character building.


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## Old Janner

*Galley's*

Hi JG,

So in your character building did you have the famous 'Storm Pie' ?

Biggest pot in the galley half filled with a Irish stew mixture (not to sloppy) and covered with a suet pastry top used as the lid, pot well wedged in even straps over the top, then sit in a corner hold on and have another mug of Tea. No change in the weather same Menu for the Tea time.
All the old timers always had room for food, just some of the youngsters could not take it.

Another meal you could knock up fast, 2 pieces of Silverside in a vegetable stew Runny! and simmer for three hours, lash down and leave, was American Pot Roast beef, Used to serve this as sliced beef on the plate gravy sauce and two pieces of bread. 'Pure Luxury'
I mush admit the crews had good characters as nobody moaned.

Old Janner.


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## jg grant

No OJ I don't remember storm pie but I do remember pot roast which was a way to cook dinner and keep it off the deck by way of fiddles and wedges. Also Toronto City was the only ship I sailed on that put out a blackpan. Any takers on that expression?


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## Old Janner

JG,
Last black pans I saw was on the old BP tankers when on the Baltic coasts, left out for the 12-4 watch anything left was for the 4-8 who would keep the gelley burners going and fry up anything we had left, including curry!

I wonder how todays executive chefs would handle a force 8 or 9 in a small dimlit galley, no stabilizers and only 6000 tons or so ?

OJ


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## sidsal

On the western ocean run there used to be a stewpot on the galley stove where veg and meat were added as required. Those coming off watch would go to the galley and ladle some stew into a mug and slurp it down - delicious after a four hour watch in the cold 9no hiding in the weheelhouse then).
On one occasion a quartenmaster came into the galley with me, ladled some stew into his mug - big plop> Mouse had fallen into it form the grating above.
Fished it out by its tail and flung it- the carried on as before !


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## Ray Mac

Old Janner said:


> JG,
> Last black pans I saw was on the old BP tankers when on the Baltic coasts, left out for the 12-4 watch anything left was for the 4-8 who would keep the gelley burners going and fry up anything we had left, including curry!
> 
> I wonder how todays executive chefs would handle a force 8 or 9 in a small dimlit galley, no stabilizers and only 6000 tons or so ?
> 
> OJ


Try a small supply boat:sweat: they can jump around a bit....!

Ray(Smoke)


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## Ray Mac

jg grant said:


> No OJ I don't remember storm pie but I do remember pot roast which was a way to cook dinner and keep it off the deck by way of fiddles and wedges. Also Toronto City was the only ship I sailed on that put out a blackpan. Any takers on that expression?


Storm Pie big pan of beef stew with a suet crust paste [=P] and lid on pan yum yum.

Ray(Ouch)


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## kevjacko

Don't ever remember having to knock menu's back on BP ships whatever the weather, and later days in the North Sea doing dive and supply. We managed come what may with the help of roll bars, wet tea towels, or muslin, you name it if it stuck to the bench it got used. Yep we had some misshaps but in general still managed to turn the menu out.


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## Old Janner

Hi Kevjacko,
In this day of strict HSE on ships and work places, working in the galley on a small ship in storm force weather, the matter should be assessed by the HSE officer and he should make risk assessments as to weather it is safe to opperate in the Galley or not, speaclily on BP ships.

I wonder if anybody has asked for a risk Assessmet to cover that subject.

OJ


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## kevjacko

Old Janner said:


> Hi Kevjacko,
> In this day of strict HSE on ships and work places, working in the galley on a small ship in storm force weather, the matter should be assessed by the HSE officer and he should make risk assessments as to weather it is safe to opperate in the Galley or not, speaclily on BP ships.
> 
> I wonder if anybody has asked for a risk Assessmet to cover that subject.
> 
> OJ


Hi Old Janner,
Well that raises a good point. Because you see in my current shoreside occupation we are pretty heavily governed by 'Elf N Safety' and what I find is that some folk practice it to the letter only when it suits them, and at other times practice a 'what the eye doesn't see' sort of thing. Particularly if it's close to knocking off time and using various automated lifting aids will put time on the job and they have the scent of an early finish and beer garden in the nostrils.

I've no idea how you would even start to risk assesing a ships galley during stormy weather, would you go by pitch of the roll, speed of the wind, height of the waves??? so many questions. Think I need a lie down, or a pint(Pint)


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## Klaatu83

ALAN TYLER said:


> When I sailed on the Carinthia a Cunarder the main passenger galley was called a "Kitchen" only the crew "Kitchen" was called a Galley!!! In the kitchen they had chefs in the crew galley it was cooks. Enjoyed all my time at sea regardless of what type of ship.



I suspect that "chefs" who work in "kitchens" get paid more than "cooks" who work in "galleys", in much the same manner that restaurants get to charge more for their food if their menus are printed in French.


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## Rob Shand

Old Janner said:


> Hi Kevjacko,
> In this day of strict HSE on ships and work places, working in the galley on a small ship in storm force weather, the matter should be assessed by the HSE officer and he should make risk assessments as to weather it is safe to opperate in the Galley or not, speaclily on BP ships.
> 
> I wonder if anybody has asked for a risk Assessmet to cover that subject.
> 
> OJ


Can't see old 'Cookie' getting to pull that one..

A basic minimum requirement of doubling up on the bent spoons and forks holding the pots onto the bars, depending of course on the 'Gale Force' and direction of travel.
And also a safety harness to be worn via a bungee type cord secured to the side of the galley extractor fan so you don't get thrown too far...especially on steak night.


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## john fraser

Rob Shand said:


> Can't see old 'Cookie' getting to pull that one..
> 
> A basic minimum requirement of doubling up on the bent spoons and forks holding the pots onto the bars, depending of course on the 'Gale Force' and direction of travel.
> And also a safety harness to be worn via a bungee type cord secured to the side of the galley extractor fan so you don't get thrown too far...especially on steak night.


On DSV.Kestrel we were caught out in the GoM in "Hurricane Ike" about 4 year ago,All ports were closed so we had to ride it out,so to speak.Cooking was carried out as normal in bad weather conditions.After the hurricane passed.the American HSE/Safety Advisor came up to me and told me that the Galley Staff should not have been cooking.Asked him if he had ever been West of Shetland or the Northern North Sea in winter.No reply. Then told him I noticed he had never missed out on a meal.


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## kevjacko

Rob Shand said:


> Can't see old 'Cookie' getting to pull that one..
> 
> A basic minimum requirement of doubling up on the bent spoons and forks holding the pots onto the bars, depending of course on the 'Gale Force' and direction of travel.
> And also a safety harness to be worn via a bungee type cord secured to the side of the galley extractor fan so you don't get thrown too far...especially on steak night.


Hi RobI

n the book Treasure Island, that's how Long John Silver got himself around the galley in a manner of speaking.


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## alan ward

I have a lot in common with Long John,ex-ships cook turned publican I have one leg too many but as I am suffering from ligament damage had I a crutch about me I would be using it,we share so very,very much.Judging by some of the opinions of the less informed on this site Pursers and pirates are interchangeable anyway so here`s to us Long John me old hearty now where`s me buccaneers?


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## Mad Landsman

alan ward said:


> .... now where`s me buccaneers?


Under your buccan 'at? 

Sorry but someone had to say it, I'll shut the door on my way out .


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