# How many R/O's never went to sea, or even qualified ?



## Gareth Jones

The recent thread on "Colleges we went to " reminds me of my time in college during the early sixties - when our course started, we had about twentythree students, by the time it ended only seven actually qualified. Those that fell by the wayside either couldnt do it, lost interest, or got kicked out !

Of the seven that eventually qualified, three never went to sea one of which even had 1st class ticket and BOT radar.

If remember correctly the wastages on courses ahead and behind mine were the same.

Considering the number of colleges there were in the sixties, I am bound to wonder if this appaling wastage went on elsewhere.

Did other members experience similar losses ?


----------



## rknibbs

There were less than ten in my intake at West Norwood Tech, South London, in 1967 and other than one who was kicked off the course, as far as I know, all went to sea as R/O's. Two were ex-nav apps (Caltex & RFA).


----------



## Larry Bennett

In my time at Brunel Tech (Bristol) between 1976-1979 there were 3 classes in the first year, each with around 14-16 students each. At the end of the 2nd year, this had dropped to 2 classes. Come the MRGC I believe only in the region of a dozen or so actually qualified. 

Many found the course too intense, others couldn't get to grips with the morse code, and obviously a few more simply found the course wasn't for them....

Some were excellent electronics technicians and went on to find jobs in the industry.

Of those who did get tickets, I think most found jobs at sea, although I managed to land a job at GKA almost immediately.....

Would be interesting to look at the college records (if they still exist) and find the truth!

Larry +


----------



## sparkie2182

The highly intensive nature of the courses was often too much for many.
I knew a number of former R/O's who later got excellent Electronics degrees at University who said the degree course was a doddle in comparison.


----------



## hawkey01

If I had studied as hard at school as I did at Radio School I reckon I could have been anything I liked.
As we all know it was, as Sparkie2182 says very intense.
Many, many, hours of swotting. 
However I would not have missed my seatime nor my many years at GKA.

Hawkey01


----------



## Shannoner

Larry Bennett said:


> In my time at Brunel Tech (Bristol) between 1976-1979 there were 3 classes in the first year, each with around 14-16 students each. At the end of the 2nd year, this had dropped to 2 classes. Come the MRGC I believe only in the region of a dozen or so actually qualified.
> 
> Many found the course too intense, others couldn't get to grips with the morse code, and obviously a few more simply found the course wasn't for them....
> 
> Some were excellent electronics technicians and went on to find jobs in the industry.
> 
> Of those who did get tickets, I think most found jobs at sea, although I managed to land a job at GKA almost immediately.....
> 
> Would be interesting to look at the college records (if they still exist) and find the truth!
> 
> Larry +


I attended the Ulster Polytechnic, Belfast from 1977 to 80, MRGC followed by Radar. My experience was much the same as Larry. We started with two classes of about 15, and ended up with about 10 or 12 in the Radar class, and everyone who got their MRGC went onto the Radar course. So that's 10 or 12 out of 30 passed the MRGC and about 10 passed the Radar. So overall 10 out of 30 who started left with their MRGC and Radar, me being one of the lucky 10.
Now out of us 10 only 2 managed to get to sea as R/Os. I wrote about 50 letters to every radio company and shipping company that employed R/Os but no one was hiring Junior R/Os so it was impossible to get your 6 months junior time in. So I went offshore with Racal Survey as a Field Engineer, as did a few others. A couple went to GCHQ and the DWS, a couple to the BBC as Transmitter Engineers, and a few others to the RUC as "Wireless Mechanics" as they were called back then. I always found that the MRGC and Radar tickets were well respected by employers in the Radio/Electronics industry, I think they knew that the course was intense and anyone who managed to get their tickets was well worth employing.


----------



## Troppo

I was the only one that passed my MRGC in my year (79), out of about 10, from memory....


----------



## Shipbuilder

I would say over 99% passed at my college (Wray Castle, 1959) and went to sea. Some stayed for many years and others only a few months.

In order to obtain 2nd & 1st class, I had to study very hard indeed (something I never did at school). It was as much as I could do to obtain these certificates. Getting the radar was just as bad and involved 3 months of extremely intensive study for me.

The Advanced Marine Electronics Course (Southamnpton 1973)was totally beyond me though. I could understad virtually nothing of the theory and maths and could not even keep up with writing the notes. After the first three months, I gave up and went back to sea with the principal's words "You have thrown away your career" ringing in my ears.

Fortunately, it was not true and remained a further 19 years having found a company that couldn't care less about qualifications beyond what I already had (Curnow Shipping).

Bob


----------



## keithsparks

I got my ticket in 58 and came ashore in 82 and for the life of me I could never understand why we had to know so much theory and so much maths which incidently I was useless at , I could find and repair faults at sea with the best of them all one had to do was be able to read the manuals or draw on previous repairs or faults as far as the practical side it was an absolute doddle.


----------



## Peter Eccleson

Only one guy failed MRGC in 1971 on my course at Riversdale, Liverpool but a couple dropped out during the course. I agree it was intense and was quite suprised that the MRGC had no 'real value' to employers shoreside when it came to looking for a shore job. There didn't seem to be a comparison between MRGC and any of the 'recognised' industry qualifications.....although one prospective employer who had some sea knowledge considered it equivalent to a HND. Happy days!


----------



## fred watson

fred watson
I was at south Shields Marine college in 53/54. 3 classes with about 20 in each. The course for a second class ticket was 1 year but almost everyone took two. The biggest push for a lot of students was that that if they failed before they were 18 they were conscripted into the army. It was a great incentive. Quite a few ended up in the army. Most of those who got their tickets went straight to sea. I got to sea in 55 and stayed until 68. from 57 on I went freelance and sailed under australian, indonesian. greek, panamanian but mostly the norwegian flag. It was a great time to be at sea as therfe was so much to chose from.


----------



## roger12

Most of my class at Queens Gardens Hull completed the course (PMG 2nd) 1966-68 and went on to sea although a few did the radar first. Most of them dropped out after a year or two disillusioned by the reality of the job. I stayed for 24 years. It suited me in those days (LOF, Bank Line, BSSM, freelance on Greeks, Chinese, Norwegian, Canadian etc). A good life.


----------



## david.hopcroft

I did mine at Riversdale in 1963, in weather conditions very similar to those today. We were advised to stay on for a 1st, and also that C&G Intermediate Telecomms would be a doddle. It was. Some of the theory was intense, and I could never get my head around Foster Seely discriminators, so I cheated a bit and learned a basic answer by heart, and sure enough a question came up. 

David
+


----------



## Graham P Powell

I went to a Grammar school where I was almost totally ignored. It was only through a lady maths teacher coming in on her day off that I got O level maths which I needed to get to Bristol tech. We were a small class and with several of the other classes people didn't bother with the sea and went into industry.
Some went to GCHQ or Decca, Kelvin Hughes etc as shore techs.
We had quite a fewnon seafarers at GKA inlcuding one ex aircraft r/o and they became excellent operators picking up things quicker than us old b.....s.
Must admit like Neville, if I had put the effort in a school like I did at College I could have done anything I liked. I had a good time at sea and I really enjoyed GKA.


----------



## John David Mair

It is interesting to read other peoples experiences in training for ROs.
Like one other, I went to grammer school and failed dismally, sort of sliding scale really.
Joined the RN in 1958 and started to succeed, but then got discharged in 1961.
I went to Wray Castle in the January 1961 and felt right at home. The subject was difficult but at the end of the third term I learnt how to study and got my Part 1, and in early 62 got my Part 2.
Similar experience here in Australia, going to AMC in 83 for a radar ticket. I failed first time round, but got back into it the second time.
Learning was never easy for me, but I got there eventually.
Morse code was easy for me after RN training.
Of my time at Wray Castle I don't remember anyone actually dropping out. A few had to repeat 'terms', and a few more took longer, but most if not all of those I went there with, did go to sea.


----------



## keithsparks

one thing i always prided myself with was sending and receiving good morse code how some of the ham fisted cowboys i have had to listen to and try to decypher their transmissions ever passed their practical i will never know and some even worked in coast stations but i hasten to add only one or two did they all send with their feet


----------



## Graham P Powell

First day at Bristol tech and one of my former colleagues was asked where he was going?. "Marine Radio Department". "Mate, take a tip from me, turn round, find something else, don't bother with radio, ships or anything."
He didn't listen to the advice but it wasn't a particularly good start.
rgds
Graham Powell


----------



## southwested

Attended Brunel Tech from '86 to '89 there or thereabouts. When I started there were two classes of about 20 students which merged into one in the second year. By the third year we were down to about 25 in total (we picked up four guys from a cource in Manchester which had closed) and from memory only half a dozen or so went on to get the full certificate. I didn't as my morse was not "up to scratch". I think it was regarded as a good course as the BBC, CAA, Foreign and commonwealth office etc would all come in and interview interested candidates.
I actually worked there as a technician for three years on completing the course which was interesting, especially prepping the gear for the onslaught on new students once it had been ravaged by the previous intake. Hours of fun chasing man made faults on the Autokey N etc.
Intake was down on subsequent years as there seemed to be a rise in the "easier" courses.
From memory I dont think anyone in our class ever went to sea as an RO. One guy, Bill Rixon, ended up running the satellite earth station at Port Stanley in the Falklands for Cable and Wireless (he used to "test" the system by calloing me at four in the morning for a chat). If anyone knows his whereabouts please let me know.
Regards and a Happy New year to All
Ed Bennett


----------



## RayL

keithsparks' msg 16 above struck a chord with me because that was how I felt too; I loved being able to produce crisp and technically correct Morse, as good as I was able to manage. At college we had some good influences in that regard - one old guy in particular whose Morse was just as though it was being produced by a machine!

The important thing, of course, was to build up one's speed slowly, and NEVER attempt to send faster than was capable of receiving at that stage. Also, ensure that the action on the key-knob was solidly from the WRIST (to ensure this and also build up wrist-strength, I used to thump Morse out on the mattress as I lay in bed on a Sunday morning).


----------



## mikeg

RayL said:


> keithsparks' I used to thump Morse out on the mattress as I lay in bed on a Sunday morning).


(Thumb)


----------



## Gareth Jones

I suppose in our youth we all did a bit of mattress thumping - don't know about morse though !


----------



## Naytikos

The comments above about the intensity of the course brought home something that had been troubling me: My son went to college in Canada and seemed to spend the whole time having only one or two classes per day. So of course the course took a long time. I asked one of the lecturers why they couldn't condense the whole thing as it appeared to be unnecessarily spread out. The answer was that the staff had to divide their time between different courses.

While a couple of the lecturers at Plymouth Tech. did also teach C & G classes, this was fitted in around the PMG theory sessions and so didn't interfere. I suppose the fact that the staff effectively spent their whole time dealing with one course meant that we got the full 8-hours-a-day 'benefit'.

I still believe that university courses could be better organised and thus completed in half the time.


----------



## 5TT

> I still believe that university courses could be better organised and thus completed in half the time.


Certainly by my time, part of the requirement for the MRGC was a minimum of 3 years full time study, 1st two years on the C & G marine radio technicians course and the final year for the Post Office part II ...

= Adrian +


----------



## Graham P Powell

I believe Buckingham University is the UK's only private one and they do degree courses in 2 years ( so I've been told).
rgds
Graham Powell


----------



## Vital Sparks

I was in college as a BP cadet in the late 70s when the deal was, pass all of your exams first time and you were guaranteed a job at sea, fail anything and you were guaranteed to get fired, 100% of the class passed, simples


----------



## papayanni

Again like rknibbs, I remember Norwood Technical College (1968 -70) warning us to consider getting at the same time other qualifications as the radio officer employment prospects were diminishing. So we all spent a lot of time doing C & G and HNC courses, mainly evening classes in the Co-op hall in West Norwood.

I had already been to sea unqualified and wanted to return with a qualification.... but I never went back after getting the PMG... I joined ICL as a computer engineer instead, largely on the back of the Radar training which was usefully digital, and also because of the various C&G's and HNC's I'd got in the meantime.. (I have to say I wasn't great at Morse... I could read it easily but my wrist would never relax when sending... so I was a bit nervous about being let loose alone on a ship! and I know there were a few like me. However, my training was invaluable and gave me a kick start into a great career, so I guess it wasn't wasted although the MN never saw the result!
Rgds 
Peter Mann


----------



## keithsparks

I am becoming more and more intrigued about work at GKA what qualifications did one require as you say there were quite a few non seagoing R/Os working there. One might as well throw the radar cert in the bin I dont suppose that was needed did you do any maintanance work there i.e. checking aerials and cleaning insulators did you keep a log did you test the lifeboat set weekly did you monitor 500kcs 24/7 did you have visits from radio surveyors asking all sorts of stupid questions did you get dragged out at three in the morning to retune the radar and get frequent requests from members of the crew to have a look at theit Eddistone/halicrafter etc which was a bit wonky did you tumble bleery eyed from your bunk when the auto alarm was activated by static.No I must admit the more I think about it I missed my vocation if nothing else I could have propped the bar up in your club........


----------



## Larry Bennett

Keith

I joined GKA in 1980 after leaving college in July 1979 and a brief spell as an electronics technician with the BBC.

The minimum entry requirement was an MRGC - the radar ticket was desirable but not essential - however if you had aspirations to progress to be a radio surveyor with BT then the radar ticket was needed. The initial interview included a morse test at BT's maritime HQ in London.

However.......once at GKA there was an intensive few months in the training school, getting cw procedures up to speed and also learning to touch-type on both typewriters and telex machines. Also a great deal of 'double-banking' with duty staff to become familiar with every job on the station before being let loose. If your morse or touch-typing skills were not deemed good enough you were either 'invited to leave' or stay on in the training school until you had improved.

Once released, you were on a year's probation, and during this time you had to take another morse test (27 wpm for 5 minutes with no errors), take a station 'walkaround' and describe all aspects of the station including emergency generator start up and the intricacies of the VF room and transmitter selection. A French language exam was also mandatory unless you had an O level qualification.

Again, if you failed any of the above you were kept on a lower salary until the relevant section was passed.

You were not allowed on RT duties until trained, nor on wt 'search point' duties until fully qualified.

Looking back quite a tough regime - there were a few casualties on the way - but most got through relatively unscathed!

All maintenance work was handled by full-time engineers on site, although basic work was handled by one of the maintenance officers (R/Os who volunteered to do more hands-on work).

Larry +


----------



## keithsparks

bloody hell thats opened my eyes mind you all my sea going time was between 58 and 82 so a lot of what you had to do was obviously after when I came ashore but it must have been getting harder and harder month by month as new technolugy really took hold,the more I think about it I am glad I got out when I did I really dont think my brain could have digested it all it was hard enough struggling with A/C theory in the late 50s


----------



## Graham P Powell

Hi Larry, 27wpm for 5 minutes!. Wow! Did I do that?. Couldn't do it now but must have done it at the time. Remember the dreaded French exam though at the time it was conducted by Ernie Croskell who gave us plenty of time and turned a blind eye to dictionaries. We all passed. He was more keen on getting bums on seats than stupid exams. Remember the walk round the VF room and starting the dreaded submarine engine ( GKA's emergency power supply). Later replaced with a superb self starting Rolls Royce machine. Taking down morse on a typewriter was quite difficult but then you got that you never wrote anything down by hand. I never look at a keyboard to type even now which is the proper way I suppose. Remember the ritual of the date stamps?.
regards
Graham Powell


----------



## keithsparks

was this 27 wpm on a conventional key or bug I seem to remember most British coast stations frowned on the use of the bug key and why the French exam again I thought English was the international maritime language who brought in these ideas some suit in an office 25 wpm was good enough for a 1st class PMG what diff did 2 wpm make . On a conventional key 23 to 25 mahes for near perfect morse if sent by a good operator after that ah well enough said .Anyhow its nice to find out these things and like the saying goes we learn something new every day


----------



## Graham P Powell

Hi Keith , I cannot even remember doing it but I would assume a hand key. GKA was run by the Post Office with a Civil Service structure and mentality. I think before the war all the operators were inland telegraphists. They could really send and receive morse. Larry may say more about this as he is writing a much anticipated history of GKA. We had operators from all over including several ex GCHQ, Army, Civil Aviation and of course the RN. I always thought the army guys were pretty good. I must add here that in 99 percent of cases the guys on the other end were good as well. I cannot remember many problems in 20+ years of working there. rgds
Graham Powell


----------



## Larry Bennett

Graham/Keith

T'was 27wpm on a hand key - one of the guys who took the test before me used a bug key and was politely told to resend it on a hand key! I suppose the use of French went back to days of when the ITU rules and regulations ruled supreme - and all their publications were in French first followed by English. Must admit no-one took the qualification seriously and it was quietly dropped a few years later.

As Graham said a lot of the R/Os at GKA were pretty slick - although I recall a couple of staff members being sent back to the school for more practice; overseers had the facility to monitor individual consoles and if they didn't like what they heard a letter would arrive.... (it goes without saying I never received one...)

I've done the history up to the mid-1980s now; managed to get a couple of dozen more pages done over the last few weeks and hope to get a draft finished by the summer......work and kids permitting.

Larry +


----------



## Graham P Powell

I was working on the Post Office Telephones at the time. Having been turned down for promotion , I applied for the Radio service posting the letter off over the weekend. On the following Tuesday my P.O. boss rang up and said they wanted me to start the following week. GKA was very short of staf!f. I cannot remember the interview . I know they checked on my ticket number. 
As Larry said, some of the boys were very slick especially with the keyboard work. Some of the army chaps had been on monitoring duties and could read anything morse wise. Probably the best thing about GKA ( and the thing I miss the most) was the great guys I worked with. Still living near to it ( or where it was) I still see some of them around.
I don't remember the overseers monitoring individuals particularly but I do remember that they tried to get rid of one R/O who they felt was not up to standard. As luck would have it, the Post Office in this instance, did not follow their own procedures and were told by the Union that they didn't have a leg to stand on. The matter was quietly dropped and the chap concerned was there till the end.
rgds
Graham Powell


----------



## keithsparks

I will be the first to admit that all the British c/stations were the most efficient and helpful once one had a connection with them it was getting hold of them which gave me most grief I have heard GKA 5 by 5 and pounded away for what seemed forever with no response I have been observed many times screaming abuse at the rx whilst trying to get areply and many a deck officer has walked away from the radio room doorway shaking their heads saying quietly that Keith has really cracked this time and then a great shout of relief and delight when GKA finally pops up with qry7 as tu and you do a little dance round the radio room and the world is rosy once more have any others had the same feelings or had I really cracked up and didnt know it


----------



## david.hopcroft

Larry

I think French was the universal comms language hence the exam. When trying (operative word) to get calls through to Russia, French was used between the International Exchange in London and 'Miss' Moscow. This was of course before STD never mind ISD

David
+


----------



## Keith Pengelly

When attending a training course with Mercury Communications (C&W) it was usual to all have to introduce yourselves. Lecturer starts with "I trained as an R/O but went straight into lecturing". Four others students then come in with various versions of "I trained as an R/O but never went to sea" finally my turn "and I'm the R/O that went to sea".
We then spent ages discussing what they'd all missed by not going to sea!
Keith


----------



## mikeg

keithsparks said:


> I will be the first to admit that all the British c/stations were the most efficient and helpful once one had a connection with them it was getting hold of them which gave me most grief I have heard GKA 5 by 5 and pounded away for what seemed forever with no response I have been observed many times screaming abuse at the rx whilst trying to get areply and many a deck officer has walked away from the radio room doorway shaking their heads saying quietly that Keith has really cracked this time and then a great shout of relief and delight when GKA finally pops up with qry7 as tu and you do a little dance round the radio room and the world is rosy once more have any others had the same feelings or had I really cracked up and didnt know it


I found occasionally the frustration was of being given a high QRY and just before your turn GKA fades out or QRM does it. Luckily that didn't happen very often. Most times there was no such problems especially on the ships with more powerful transmitters and better more selective receivers. HF comms were on the whole very successful but could be very time consuming especially if you also had some important tech work waiting - I always found having a Jnr R/O generally freed things up somewhat. Happy days [=D]


----------



## hawkey01

When I joined GKA in 1970 we had to take two language exams. 
They were French and German. Unfortunately at that time the powers did take these seriously and failure would have meant being held back on pay and your probation period. All the exams - languages and station equipment - had to be passed before you were given permanent status. You could apply to take them at any time during the 12 months and obviously the sooner the better. 
The languages were supposedly with English the three main international languages for communications.

Hawkey01


----------



## hawkey01

With reference to the morse test. It was always on a hand key at 27 wpm.
If you wished to use a bug or an auto key in the station you had to sit a test
to make sure that you were proficient. If not you were not allowed to use it.

Hawkey01


----------



## 5TT

> I found occasionally the frustration was of being given a high QRY and just before your turn GKA fades out or QRM does it.


I'd work the next lower band if I thought this might happen, provided I could get through on that band of course .. Other times I'd slip them an OBS and hope that they'd follow straight on with my traffic, but that little ploy was less successful.

= Adrian +


----------



## Moulder

5TT said:


> I'd work the next lower band if I thought this might happen, provided I could get through on that band of course .. Other times I'd slip them an OBS and hope that they'd follow straight on with my traffic, but that little ploy was less successful.
> 
> = Adrian +


Surely offering an OBS would not get you to the top of the QRY list? It would, of course, be the first item of traffic you sent once your turn had come.

Steve. (Thumb)


----------



## hawkey01

Steve,

OBS were considered priority traffic and they did take priority on a QRY. 

Hawkey01


----------



## Moulder

Thanks for that - I knew they were priority traffic but honestly didn't realise that declaring them in your initial call would get you up the QRY list. Well I never.

(Thumb)


----------



## Larry Bennett

But......once the OBS had been sent and there were other vessels waiting you were (depending on the benevolence of the GKA R/O) sometimes sent to the back of the queue if you had further traffic...QSR GKB +

Larry +


----------



## Graham P Powell

So did TPR.........
rgds
Graham Powell


----------



## 5TT

> Surely offering an OBS would not get you to the top of the QRY list?


Yup, to clear the OBS of course, and on occasion you'd get "QTC2 LSN GKI" or whatever and jump the queue ... other times a new QRY, which always seemed much longer than the numbers they were giving out when I originally called with the OBS, so it was a bit of a gamble.

= Adrian +


----------



## Graham P Powell

I have a feeling that RN ships would go to the head of the Q if they indicated ZBO ( naval signal) in their initial call. 
TPR was trawler position report and they were handled urgently as well.
Like Neville and Larry say, OBS were regarded as priority traffic we had a private wire to the Met Office. Oh well, nearly time for 2130 Atlantic weather.
Better go and see what the handyman has done with the tape.....
( It ended up in the bin on one occasions)
rgds
Graham Powell


----------



## Moulder

5TT said:


> Yup, to clear the OBS of course, and on occasion you'd get "QTC2 LSN GKI" or whatever and jump the queue ... other times a new QRY, which always seemed much longer than the numbers they were giving out when I originally called with the OBS, so it was a bit of a gamble.
> 
> = Adrian +


Hmm suppose it was - you just hoped that they would clear your other traffic directly after your OBS. I've been thinking about this and wouldn't have worked GKB with OBS from the Pacific or anywhere else where signals would have faded as I moved up the QRY list - that traffic would have been sent to more local stations either on 5 ton or lower HF band.

Good try though.

Cheers,

Steve. (Thumb)


----------



## trotterdotpom

OBS were supposed to be sent to the nearest station possible - sending OBS (weather report messages to the uninitiated) from the Pacific to Portishead is ridiculous (even if it was a scam to make contact with that station).

I was quite anal retentive about sending OBS messages and only sent them to distant stations when everything else failed. I never ever sent them to "CQ" (calling all stations) as I sometimes heard ships doing - what a waste of time, you might just as well say you'd sent it in the Met book and not bother tuning up.

I was especially keen to send the messages when I heard of Masters on weather reporting ships being awarded golden barographs and what not. It was good to see them being rewarded for their efforts. Does that sound facetious? I hope so.

John T.


----------



## BeerSailor

I remember a visitor from the Met Office to a ship I was on in the Royal Docks saying that NZS was top of the list in numbers of OBS reports sent. I sailed with several Masters who had been awarded Barometers and the Mates were delighted that the R/Os often received very nice books as awards from the Met Office!


trotterdotpom said:


> OBS were supposed to be sent to the nearest station possible - sending OBS (weather report messages to the uninitiated) from the Pacific to Portishead is ridiculous (even if it was a scam to make contact with that station).
> 
> I was quite anal retentive about sending OBS messages and only sent them to distant stations when everything else failed. I never ever sent them to "CQ" (calling all stations) as I sometimes heard ships doing - what a waste of time, you might just as well say you'd sent it in the Met book and not bother tuning up.
> 
> I was especially keen to send the messages when I heard of Masters on weather reporting ships being awarded golden barographs and what not. It was good to see them being rewarded for their efforts. Does that sound facetious? I hope so.
> 
> John T.


----------



## trotterdotpom

BeerSailor said:


> I remember a visitor from the Met Office to a ship I was on in the Royal Docks saying that NZS was top of the list in numbers of OBS reports sent. I sailed with several Masters who had been awarded Barometers and the Mates were delighted that the R/Os often received very nice books as awards from the Met Office!


Those Met Office boys were notorious for pi*sing in people's pockets.

I knew a couple of 2nd Mates who received well deserved awards from the Met Office. I never met an RO who got anything, although I may have heard of one receiving a "Sunny Stories" annual. I met several Masters who received barographs - their contribution to weather reporting was walking out onto the bridge wing and saying: "Bit nippy today, 3rd Mate!".

John T.


----------



## Ron Stringer

BeerSailor said:


> I remember a visitor from the Met Office to a ship I was on in the Royal Docks saying that NZS was top of the list in numbers of OBS reports sent.


Probably a little poetic licence on behalf of the visiting Met Office man. They probably said that to all the ships!

While I was at sea during the 1960s, I was on several observing vessels and remember that the guy said the same thing to the 2nd Mate on both an Elders & Fyffes and on an Ellermans ship. But the company that always seemed to be listed in the Marine Observer as having won the prizes was one that I never sailed with, Manchester Liners.

In later years I knew Gordon Mackie, who was in charge of the liaison between the Met Office at Bracknell and the ships in port. He was also their representative at IMO and on various UK marine radio committees.


----------



## sandhopper

Graham P Powell said:


> First day at Bristol tech and one of my former colleagues was asked where he was going?. "Marine Radio Department". "Mate, take a tip from me, turn round, find something else, don't bother with radio, ships or anything."
> He didn't listen to the advice but it wasn't a particularly good start.
> rgds
> Graham Powell



That seemed like very good advice. Pity I didn't get the same when I went through MRGC, DOT radar, MRRT and C & G telecomms. The drop out rate was phenomenal. The chance of seagoing employment in the mid 70s close to zero. I met some that ended up in the RAF or worked for large defence contractors. never met any that joined the RN, although a few tried but received a frosty reception as I recall.

To all those youngsters; avoid the sea. Avoid engineering, get a cushy local government or university job. The type that will pay 18% of salary into your pension. 
A wise individual I once met advised his staff to ignore glossy recruiting booklets. Look at the staff car park and if it resembled a scrap yard then walk away. Next find out when the earliest you could retire at. Also, if the redundancy pay was above government minimum. Meet the above 4 criteria and you have an employer worth sticking with.


----------



## sparkie2182

Good advice.


----------



## alan ward

I failed,after 6 months at Riversdale struggling with the maths.The morse,regulations and fault finding etc.was a breeze and I loved it.Changed direction and spent 10 very happy years away.


----------



## sparkie2182

Considering the amount of maths involved, i often wonder if it was all really required....................i never used much in practice.


----------



## expats

sandhopper said:


> To all those youngsters; avoid the sea. Avoid engineering, get a cushy local government or university job. The type that will pay 18% of salary into your pension..


Bad advice...My MNOPF is a good pension...I enjoyed my time at sea. After coming ashore, I got a degree and moved into Management... After being 'headhunted' into a company, which met all your criteria, it was taken over by xxxxx and within 4 years went, suddenly, into receivership....Minimum redundancy and, at 55, no chance of an equivalent position elsewhere....Luckily my pensions enabled me to retire in reasonable comfort...
As for a 'cushy' local government job?????? A sure way to join the unemployed....


----------



## sandhopper

expats said:


> Bad advice...My MNOPF is a good pension..
> 
> Didn't the MNOPF go from a 1/30th to a 1/60th scheme about the time you left?


----------



## expats

I left in 1981 and, if memory serves, it had just gone down to 1/40th....


----------



## trotterdotpom

It was a sin the way those colleges kept sucking people into the Marine Radio course when the writing was already on the wall.

However, I'm glad I never received advice like the above - I always wanted to go to sea and was lucky enough to get away, but who would want to start their working lives working out a redundancy package? Is that what we've got down to? Hope things worked out for you Sandhopper.

John T


----------



## jaydeeare

After failing my PMG twice and my parents couldn't keep me at college any more, I joined the RAF on Ground Radar. OK, the bulls**t was something I had to put up with, but on the whole it gave me plenty of practical experience and Day Release to complete my c&G's.

Once out, getting a job in Civvy St. proved a bit of a task, but the Company that took me on used my previous RAF experience to it's best.

Not looked back since, and been in full employment since leaving College. Not bad, eh?

Everything just seemed to be stepping stones to where I am now.


----------



## sparkie2182

Just out of interest Johnny, how hot were the R.A.F on the maths for radar tech
training?


----------



## trotterdotpom

Sorry you didn't make it to sea Jaydeeare, I'm sure you would have loved it, but you got on with things and made a success of your life despite the disappointment. I've been made redundant a couple of times and had a few difficulties but you just have to tough it out. Luckily for me, I was always able to fall back on my Gigolo expertise. Normally I keep that quiet but now that it's out, I'm clearing my PM inbox.

John T


----------



## jaydeeare

The RAF were quite hot on maths as this was part of the curriculum on a Fitters' Course (12 month course ending with the exalted rank of Junior Technician). With this rank we were expected to fault find to component level, whereas before (Mechanic) was only to Unit level.

On enlisting, I was offered the possibility of Marine Craft, but I declined as I felt electronics of some form would be better for me when I came to leave. A good call as it happened.

Yes, John T., I have been very fortunate where the only redundancy was my role, but I was transferred into another Dept., so I got away with it.

I often wonder what I may have been doing had I not joined the RAF. 

The Grey Funnel Line by the way, was NOT an option for me! Never fancied being on a grey hulled 'target'!

As you say, we get hit with disappointment, but we just have a cry in our beer for a little while and then play the hand we've been given. Then make the most of it.

In fact that's pretty much what life's about, isn't it?

Although I do get a bit miffed when I see programs with Deck Officers wearing specs!


----------



## sandhopper

trotterdotpom said:


> ... Hope things worked out for you Sandhopper.
> 
> Thanks trotterdotpom.
> 
> Things went ok after I threw the MRGC in the bin. Pity though, as it was the hardest thing I ever studied and I have studied BSc to MSc. I was in the merch as a deckie but rather fancied the laid back lifestyle of sparkey.
> With hindsight I should have joined the RAF as I found my association with them to be better than my MN experiences. I failed the RAAF test for a radio tech, conducted at Australia House in London. They gave me an audiometry test which I failed. I failed because, during the explanation of how the test was to be conducted I was too busy staring at the nurse's rather large endowments. They offered me a general hands position but I turned it down.


----------



## sparkie2182

"but rather fancied the laid back lifestyle of sparkey."

Right on................Daddyo.

Hit me with some skin baby...................Far out, far out!!!!!!!!


----------



## Bill Greig

My younger brother Alan almost got through his MRGC at Aberdeen. He had passed the first year exam (FEC) no probs. ( I did not!) but he flunked the second year theory (radio communications), the stupid rule was you had to pass both exams within 12 months of each other, and so was kicked off the course. Rather harsh I thought after nearly two years work. And so joined the RAF in ground radar and eventually got his Sargents stripes, took the golden handshake from the RAF some years back and now working for Asda in the Wirral (or Birkenhead as it was known).
Bill


----------



## sparkie2182

It was a bit of an obstacle course, in truth.

At FNC we had maths lessons which,looking back on it, seemed to keep maths teachers in work and not much else.

Quadratic and simultaneous equations et al............. no use in practical terms or for the MRGC or DTI radar exams.

Oddly, I don't recall anyone pointing this out at the time, but it was a hell of a waste of time and effort.


----------



## jaydeeare

sparkie2182 said:


> It was a bit of an obstacle course, in truth.
> 
> At FNC we had maths lessons which,looking back on it, seemed to keep maths teachers in work and not much else.
> 
> Quadratic and simultaneous equations et al............. no use in practical terms or for the MRGC or DTI radar exams.
> 
> Oddly, I don't recall anyone pointing this out at the time, but it was a hell of a waste of time and effort.


I doubt that unless you are or were a Design Engineer, the amount of maths learnt was of much practical use outside the Academic Environment. I know that of all the maths I had to learn, very little was of any practical use.

The most I ever used maths in a practical sense was was during my Navigation Cadet training at FNC. I then found out just how important it was!


----------



## King Ratt

"You are not just here to get a PMG ticket. You are here to get an education". These were the words of the late Andrew Bogie, Head of the Radio Dept at Leith Nautical College when I went there in 1960. Some students did actually go onto University after LNC and never did go to sea. I was offered entry into University but did go to sea and never regretted it.


----------



## sparkie2182

"I doubt that unless you are or were a Design Engineer"..............Exactly the words of a friend of mine..............a design engineer.

An example.........

Transposition of formula used to be high on the agenda during the first year..............Tech Elec (Fundementals).

Fiddling with the X-sectional area of a copper wire to conform to it's electrical resistance given it's length..............

Working out how long it would have to be to equal the resistance of a given carbon ballast resistor.

.............almost comical, looking back on it.

No doubt, a very sound basis for advanced learning though, but that there was no recognition outside of the business or the Post Office.

Hysteresis loops live long in my memory............... i never actually sailed with one though.

Permitivity,permeability,depletion layers,inter-electrode capacitance,mu factor, cardioid diagrams, inductive reactance.......................it all comes back to me.................

Bits of it.


----------



## trotterdotpom

I can remember actually solving some real life problem using simultaneous equations, I can't remember whether it was anything to do with radio or something else. I do recall thinking I've actually used some maths that I learned in school! Never did it again though. I wonder if anyone else in my class ever benefited from those interminable lessons.

I used Ohms Law a couple of times, but apart from that none of it was much use except for adding up the bar bill.

John T


----------



## J. Davies

I was at Brunel Tech the same time as Larry Bennet. During my last year (1979) British Telecom visited the college and recruited several guys. We were in the middle of a shipping slump and the UK companies were simply not hiring. It semed such a waste. 

I was lucky and got a start with Unicorn Lines in South Africa and never looked back. It was crap money but at least they gave me the sea-time before I moved on to other companies. 

There were several Nigerians on the course. One of them, Crown Prince Amos Adekunle was royalty. He passed his MRGC and T5 with flying colours and went straight back to Nigeria as Head of National Telecommunications !

I remember we had one lovely young lady from Cheltenham in the class. She passed the course but would have lasted 5 minutes at sea. I often wonder what became of her.

Yeah the maths theory was far too much but I enjoyed it. The irony is that now if we need to calculate the resonant frequency of a parallel tuned circuit we do a Google and Bob's your uncle.


----------



## sparkie2182

Calculate the capacitance of an oil filled capacitor of given dimensions, then calculate the capacitance if the oil leaks out.

Jeez.


----------



## expats

sparkie2182 said:


> Calculate the capacitance of an oil filled capacitor of given dimensions, then calculate the capacitance if the oil leaks out.
> 
> Jeez.


Then put it back in the 'spares' cupboard with a 'tiny smudged label' reading, 'suspect but might be OK in an emergency"*....(Cloud)

*I seemed to follow an R/O who did this with valves....


----------



## Paul Braxton

Regarding maths for college, I went for the acceptance interview at Norwood Tech in Sept '67 with no pass at GCE. In fact my maths abilities at school were appalling, laughable. I was very fortunate to have had a wonderful and brilliant physics master in my final school year (aged 16), who managed to convince me to get physics at GCE at least. In fact, oneday I came home from school to find him sitting in the front room talking to my Mum. I was horrified and mortified. It turned out he had come (unbidden and unpaid) to give my Mum the lowdown on how I should work really hard and pass physics, then do some simple maths swotting (mainly in formulae transpositioning) to get me through the interview. It also turned out that he had been a 2/0 at sea at one time, which was a revelation and a wonderful synchronicity.
'Basher' Hills! If you're still out there: good on you, mate!
I did pass the physics, working like crazy to do it, then on the college interview day I was given an impromptu maths test made up by the interviewer (Mr. Walker) on the spot, and containing about half a dozen questions. I couldn't believe it; all the questions were of stuff I'd been swotting through for weeks! I passed, and then was able to spend the next 14 years in the R/O game. 
I owe a lot to 'Basher'. Most of the other guys in my final year at school were not at all into passing exams. In fact they just used to have an endless series of laughs and practical jokes, not to mention the usual fighting, etc. Hard not to be influenced by that sort of thing. In woodwork lessons, whenever the teacher went out of the shop for a few minutes, all hell would break loose, with chisels and marking knives being used as knife throwing practice into the wooden walls and complete mayhem. How I ever managed to get anywhere with woodwork either was a mystery. But I did and the experience in that area has served me so well to this day. I reckon having a practical skill in that area helped a lot with the job at sea; sort of confidence building et al.
Funny how things work themselves out. Sort of seems pre-destined, somehow. I'll never forget the sight of that list of math questions when I realised I could actually do them and have a chance at getting on the course.


----------



## Naytikos

I hated mathematics at school, but rather enjoyed it on the PMG course: resonance calculations and imaginary numbers made sense because there was an obvious purpose to it all. How much easier it would have been if calculators had been invented instead of using logarithms.

Was there any use for the maths afterwards? Calculating powers factors in an electricity generating plant and, more significantly, understanding and trouble-shooting QAM and MPEG2/4 encoding are just two of the applications that come to mind.


----------



## Hugh Wilson

There were 32 of us who started the R/O course at NCRS Preston in September 1965. Only 7 of us finished the course and were awarded PMG2 certficates. All 7 of us had been refused local education authority grants and had to pay our own fees (or at least our parents did). The other 25, for whom the state was paying, dropped out one by one and I never did see any of them again.


----------



## Duncan112

Hugh Wilson said:


> There were 32 of us who started the R/O course at NCRS Preston in September 1965. Only 7 of us finished the course and were awarded PMG2 certficates. All 7 of us had been refused local education authority grants and had to pay our own fees (or at least our parents did). The other 25, for whom the state was paying, dropped out one by one and I never did see any of them again.


Hugh, was David Gibbons on your course?


----------



## Hugh Wilson

Yes, he was, but I've no idea where he is these days.

H


----------



## Duncan112

Thanks Hugh, David was very friendly with my father - they used to walk and youth hostel together - last he heard he was in Athens with his wife Toula (Spelling) but we've not heard from him for a few years.


----------



## Varley

Hugh Wilson said:


> There were 32 of us who started the R/O course at NCRS Preston in September 1965. Only 7 of us finished the course and were awarded PMG2 certficates. All 7 of us had been refused local education authority grants and had to pay our own fees (or at least our parents did). The other 25, for whom the state was paying, dropped out one by one and I never did see any of them again.


My experience is much the same at Riversdale 1971 although I think the numbers passing first time was even fewer (actually I have never been that good at Morse and had a retest on the same day). I didn't hang about to hear who gave up for good.

You may be right about grants Vs private but I believe it is more fundamental (and insoluble). If you look at the bent of those passing it is clear that we had some enthusiasm for things electrical/electronic - this was learning we wanted to be doing. For many the only encouragement they had was a well paid job with no heavy lifting (the easy life). I venture to suggest that most of us in this forum spent our working life doing something we enjoyed, whether veering to the technical or procedural. Those that managed to pass and simply served their time to a comfortable pension or, less fortunately(less foresightedly) to a premature end, simply wouldn't bother with a site like SN.

(If they would then I am sure this thread will be one to prove me wrong).

The world, unfortunately, is not arranged so that everyone. or even the majority, can be employed at what he likes doing. Lucky us.


----------



## expats

Varley said:


> My experience is much the same at Riversdale 1971 although I think the numbers passing first time was even fewer (actually I have never been that good at Morse and had a retest on the same day). I didn't hang about to hear who gave up for good.
> 
> You may be right about grants Vs private but I believe it is more fundamental (and insoluble). If you look at the bent of those passing it is clear that we had some enthusiasm for things electrical/electronic - this was learning we wanted to be doing. For many the only encouragement they had was a well paid job with no heavy lifting (the easy life). I venture to suggest that most of us in this forum spent our working life doing something we enjoyed, whether veering to the technical or procedural. Those that managed to pass and simply served their time to a comfortable pension or, less fortunately(less foresightedly) to a premature end, simply wouldn't bother with a site like SN.
> 
> (If they would then I am sure this thread will be one to prove me wrong).
> 
> The world, unfortunately, is not arranged so that everyone. or even the majority, can be employed at what he likes doing. Lucky us.


For me the 'incentive' was going to sea...I started wanting 'deck' but was a 'borderline pass' regarding red/green eyesight; the examiner told me that, in a couple of years, I'd probably fail the same test. I never fancied the engine room so I chose R/Oing and I've never regretted it.
I started pre-container and, after my junior days, tried to avoid tankers. I spent my youth visiting exotic (not always pleasant) places in a world that has gone forever...
If I had my time over would I do the same? With a few exceptions, "Bloody right I would"...


----------



## Varley

expats said:


> For me the 'incentive' was going to sea...I started wanting 'deck' but was a 'borderline pass' regarding red/green eyesight; the examiner told me that, in a couple of years, I'd probably fail the same test. I never fancied the engine room so I chose R/Oing and I've never regretted it.
> I started pre-container and, after my junior days, tried to avoid tankers. I spent my youth visiting exotic (not always pleasant) places in a world that has gone forever...
> If I had my time over would I do the same? With a few exceptions, "Bloody right I would"...


I think that must have been an equally good incentive, sorry to have omitted it.


----------



## 5TT

> Then put it back in the 'spares' cupboard with a 'tiny smudged label' reading, 'suspect but might be OK in an emergency"*.


I confess to having done this myself on one occasion. The gear was an all valve JRC console and the audio from the main RX had become very low and distorted, and replacing the a/f output valve restored normal performance, I hadn't realized how far I'd had to advance the a/f gain control over the preceding weeks. My concern at the time was that the new one might fail completely before a replacement spare arrived, so I did the deed, and probably forgot to mention it when I handed the station over ...
Apologies expat if that was you !!

= Adrian +


----------



## expats

5TT said:


> I confess to having done this myself on one occasion. The gear was an all valve JRC console and the audio from the main RX had become very low and distorted, and replacing the a/f output valve restored normal performance, I hadn't realized how far I'd had to advance the a/f gain control over the preceding weeks. My concern at the time was that the new one might fail completely before a replacement spare arrived, so I did the deed, and probably forgot to mention it when I handed the station over ...
> Apologies expat if that was you !!
> 
> = Adrian +


If it was only the one valve then it wasn't you.....


----------



## BobClay

Attended Leith from 1967 to 1970 after two years at sea as an engine room rating (2 weeks training at Pier Head in Liverpool and then off to sea as a Fireman/Fireman Greaser/Wiper depending on which company you work for.) Don't really understand the mention of maths requirement for PMG, it really was not particularly high. But for sure enjoyed my time at college (Edinburgh is a great city, but bloody draughty in Wintertime) watching ships being built in Henry Robb's yard (all gone now) and finding faults on the new fangled Crusader transmitter (boy, did we even know we were born ?) Going to sea was an experience I'm quite happy to have had. I personally think the sparky's job was the best on the ship, because you were pretty much your own boss and were constantly dealing with new problems (particularly after the MED.) Can't deny the pay could have been better ... but hell ... ya can't have everything.


----------



## Paul Braxton

Sparkie's job was definitely the best on board. Film star wages and loads of time off in port! A bit of responsibility, too and lots of fun actually doing all the things that the job entailed. Cool job, that, although not sure about the filmstar wages bit, although I was often accused of earning loads of money for doing nowt. Bit of good natured jealousy there somewhere, I reckon.


----------



## John Briggs

When I was mate I sailed with a Master who said he was resigning from the company and going to train as a Sparks.
He said he was fed up with the problems and worries of being Master and said Sparkie's job was the best on board.
I don't know if he did it or not but he was very serious and he did resign from the company.


----------



## Austinsparks

trotterdotpom said:


> Those Met Office boys were notorious for pi*sing in people's pockets.
> 
> I knew a couple of 2nd Mates who received well deserved awards from the Met Office. I never met an RO who got anything, although I may have heard of one receiving a "Sunny Stories" annual. I met several Masters who received barographs - their contribution to weather reporting was walking out onto the bridge wing and saying: "Bit nippy today, 3rd Mate!".
> 
> John T.


I "won" books from the Met Office twice, but I thought the bigger prizes were mythical.


----------



## Austinsparks

trotterdotpom said:


> It was a sin the way those colleges kept sucking people into the Marine Radio course when the writing was already on the wall.
> 
> However, I'm glad I never received advice like the above - I always wanted to go to sea and was lucky enough to get away, but who would want to start their working lives working out a redundancy package? Is that what we've got down to? Hope things worked out for you Sandhopper.
> 
> John T


I remember a string of letters into newspapers about this, sometime around the beginning of the 1980s. The fleets and jobs were disappearing but colleges were allegedly still actively attracting students. I've thought about that situation fairly recently as kids of my children's generation were encouraged to take degrees which didn't lead to the jobs they hoped for.


----------



## sandhopper

Austinsparks said:


> .......... I've thought about that situation fairly recently as kids of my children's generation were encouraged to take degrees which didn't lead to the jobs they hoped for.


Am I the only one that is horrified by the behaviour of colleges and universities? It would seem to an outsider that their main aim is to fund good salaries and pensions for their management by landing their students in debt. A local college runs various courses in 'Public Services'. One being the BTEC level 2 Diploma in Public Services (Uniformed). Presumably qualifying the holder to work as a lollipop man or woman. I have also met some that have qualifications in veterinary nursing but, rather like the MRGC days, they need a year of working before becoming fully qualified. Poor sods struggle to get a registered vet training practice to take them on, yet still the colleges churn out the glossy career bumf.


----------



## Duncan112

sandhopper said:


> Am I the only one that is horrified by the behaviour of colleges and universities? It would seem to an outsider that their main aim is to fund good salaries and pensions for their management by landing their students in debt. A local college runs various courses in 'Public Services'. One being the BTEC level 2 Diploma in Public Services (Uniformed). Presumably qualifying the holder to work as a lollipop man or woman. I have also met some that have qualifications in veterinary nursing but, rather like the MRGC days, they need a year of working before becoming fully qualified. Poor sods struggle to get a registered vet training practice to take them on, yet still the colleges churn out the glossy career bumf.


Ye Gods!! I have done a quick Google and it seems that the Diploma in Public Services is a one year course to see if you might like to join the Army, Navy, Police or Airforce!! If you're not sure at the end of the course there is a level 3 Diploma available, and also a level 1 Diploma. So, in theory you could spend 3 years deciding if you want a life in uniform. I suspect the Sergeant at the Armed Forces Recruitment Office could assess your suitability in about 20 mins and advise accordingly.

I have thought for a long time that colleges should be made to publish statistics on how many of their students gained a position in the field they were training for - and I'm not regarding a summer job in McDonalds burger flipping as a career in uniform.


----------



## sparkie2182

"could assess your suitability in about 20 mins"

Make that 20 seconds.


----------



## Duncan112

I was being generous and assuming the prospective candidate was not wearing his baseball cap back to front!!

They are referred to as “**** slackass-erectus” created by natural genetic downward evolution through constant spineless posturing and spasmodic upper limb gestures, which new research has shown to cause shorter legs and an inability to ambulate other than in an awkward shuffling gait. The "drag-crotch" shape also seems to effect brain function. Expect no eye contact or intelligent verbal communication. History shows that this species mostly receives food stamps and full government care. Unfortunately most are highly fertile.


----------



## expats

Duncan112 said:


> I was being generous and assuming the prospective candidate was not wearing his baseball cap back to front!!
> .


Well that lets out the UK Foreign Secretary


----------



## jaydeeare

A few days ago, I was watching a Game Show "The Chase". On it was a girl Student who was studying History at University. when asked what she wanted to do when she left University she replied that she wanted to go into something to do with fashion.

WHAT???

She's doing History and won't be using it??? WHY?? Just to get a Degree??

I would like to think that all who did and passed an RO's Course at College actually went to sea as an RO or something similar!


----------



## sparkie2182

George Osborne ............. Chancellor of the Exchequer.

"2nd Class Degree History.............GCSE Maths."


----------



## trotterdotpom

I think the idea of a BA degree is to demonstrate a level of intelligence and discipline sufficient to earn the qualification. Obviously, nobody is going to get a job as a Pikeman at the Battle of Waterloo because it's already over. They end up getting white collar jobs or become prostitutes - a dark and lonely job, but someone has to do it.

John T


----------



## jaydeeare

trotterdotpom said:


> I think the idea of a BA degree is to demonstrate a level of intelligence and discipline sufficient to earn the qualification. Obviously, nobody is going to get a job as a Pikeman at the Battle of Waterloo because it's already over. They end up getting white collar jobs or become prostitutes - a dark and lonely job, but someone has to do it.
> 
> John T


Indeed, but surely something closer to what a future career would be more beneficial?

Just my opinion, of course.


----------



## trotterdotpom

jaydeeare said:


> Indeed, but surely something closer to what a future career would be more beneficial?
> 
> Just my opinion, of course.


Got to agree with that Johnny.

John T


----------



## Varley

I had the impression that all publicly run courses required C&G telecoms with the MRGC as a bolt on (the 'craft' of morse being a fairly substantially part of the bolt on). If so then you can really only target the private establishments for continuing to turn out R/O only qualified alumni in the run out of old SOLAS Ch III/IV. Most therefore will have had 'another string to their bows'. 

That is not to say that those of us C&G Telecoms bereft at the outset necessarily could not use that education we did have to remain in the industry post GMDSS.


----------



## Hugh Wilson

David,

Your last statement is very true. It worked and is still working for me.

Hugh


----------



## expats

sparkie2182 said:


> George Osborne ............. Chancellor of the Exchequer.
> 
> "2nd Class Degree History.............GCSE Maths."


Through 'his own efforts'he reached the dizzy heights of a "Towel Folder".

However, he has another 'qualification' which entitles him to the top table...He attended Eton.


----------



## sparkie2182

" he has another 'qualification' which entitles him to the top table...He attended Eton."

His sole achievement.


----------



## sparkie2182

Vince Cable's C.V.

Job........... Gopher for Osborne

Vince was educated at Nunthorpe Grammar School, York and Fitzwilliam College, Cambridge, where he studied natural science and economics and was President of the Union. He then studied for a PhD Econ at Glasgow University.
After graduating, Vince worked as Treasury Finance Officer for the Kenyan Government between 1966 and 1968. From 1968 to 1974 he lectured in economics at Glasgow University. He then worked in a range of senior economic and foreign policy roles, before becoming Shell International’s Chief Economist in 1995.


----------



## Klaatu83

I don't know for sure if any of the R/Os with whom I sailed ever went to college at all. I was under the impression that a lot of them came out of the military and then studied for their license exams on their own. Apparently, the U.S. Navy stopped using "CW" some years ago, so many of the newer R/Os actually came out of the Coast Guard. Others began as "Ham Radio" hobbyists. The better ones kept up with the new technology and acquired "REO" ratings (Radio-Electronics Officer), or even "MREO" (Master Radio-Electronics Officer). Those were the ones who could operate and maintain all the new electronic equipment, such as radars, COMSAT and computer equipment, which the old "R/O"s could not. One MREO I sailed with cured a computer virus that had infected our ships' computer network. However, he said he was preparing to retire soon, because he didn't enjoy that sort of thing. He was not a "computer geek" and, as he put it, "I got into this work because I was interested in radio, I don't care about computers".


----------

