# Woodward Governor



## romney01

I think the Woodward Governor must be one of the most reliable pieces of equipment in a ships engine room. I was amazed to learn that the UG8 generator governor was developed in the 1940's and still fitted as standard by mane marine engine builders today. 
Did anybody ever dare to try adjusting a governor at sea? Especially the good old PGA main engine unit.


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## Abbeywood.

romney01 said:


> I think the Woodward Governor must be one of the most reliable pieces of equipment in a ships engine room. I was amazed to learn that the UG8 generator governor was developed in the 1940's and still fitted as standard by mane marine engine builders today.
> Did anybody ever dare to try adjusting a governor at sea? Especially the good old PGA main engine unit.


Sailing in a Bibby ship, on a maiden voyage, problems were experienced with a UG8 unit fitted to a 6cyl Mirrlees alternator which developed a 'hunting' problem.
After the Chief had made several adjustments to the controls, to no avail, he suggested that we take the governor off the engine and strip it down. (Alarm and horror on my part). As nothing untoward was found amiss it was 'boxed-up' again and tested with a stand-by man on the fuel shut-off. The Alternator ran ok for about 5-10 mins then started hunting again. Unsolved problem. !
Next move was to contact Woodwards who offered to send a replacement for which the Chief was required to post a surety of $5000 returnable on receipt of the defective unit.
New governor received on arrival in the 'States and fitted. No further problems experienced and Chief got his surety back so it seems that Woodwards found a fault in the original unit though no details ever reached my ears/eyes.

Another mystery mal-function of a Woodward governor, this time with a PGA unit fitted to the Main Eng' of Bibbys 'Wiltshire' when for no apparent reason the engine would slow down and after a while, speed up tp its set speed. 
After much though and deliberation the problem was solved one night, in the ships bar, when 'Sparky' happened to mention that it was strange that every night when he was sending off the weather reports the ship slowed down. Why?.The answer being his transmission frequency was compatible with the electronics responder of the M.E. Bridge control unit fitted to the governor


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## A.D.FROST

There are those who think they know(just read the manual)There are those who have ago(I don't need to read the manual I'm a engineer) and those who have worked on them at collage(potential Chiefs)like me get a expert who knows what they Do Know what they are doing and don't leave it to others to fix it because they have just Bolicked it.(always send it ashore for over haul and let them guarantee it.


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## steamer659

Woodward Governors are ok, have worked with them extensively through varying applications, from the PG to the UG Series on everything from Cat 3516's, Cat 3600 series, Cat 398's, Steam Turbines (Generators, Cargo Pumps)

It is very interesting to note that the torque/speed and fuel ratio controls on many of the engines are compensated for torque rise and turbo lag- I've been into a few of them over the passed 30 odd years- they're ok...

On the USNS Mercury we experienced a Main Switchboard Bus Fault which did considerable damage to the switchboard, at the same time the 2500 kW Steam Genset governor (Woodward Speed Sensing Electronic 2301) attempted to respond to the load!!! The resultant force and quick response severely damaged the Hydraulic Amplifier which was the speed control actuator- also took out the summing junction on the 2301 motherboard... interestingly enough we repaired the electronic part- but had to wait for another actuator...

One amusing story was when I was Chief on the SS Equality State in 1991; we had two Cat 3606's for Crane Generator sets and the Port Engine would not run- the engine had about 1100 hours (brand new)- most of us were steam engineers except for one of the 3 A/E's, who was a "motor head"- I asked him what he thought- he replied "We ALWAYS call for a Tech Rep where Woodward Governors are concerned- Don't touch it"- I of course didn't believe in the widespread use of Tech Reps- so (much to the other engineer's trepidation) dove right in- it was simple- and obvious- the lock nut on the shutdown actuator rod came loose and wouldn't let the rack move- realigned the rod- reattached and then staked the lock nut and voila... No mysteries here!


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## ccurtis1

I do not know if my memory is playing up, but I seem to recall that Woodward Governers fitted on to engines I sailed with were sealed, to prevent opening up. If the seals were broken when the governer was eventually retuned to Woodward for repair, it became a much more costly affair.


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## Basil

> always send it ashore for over haul and let them guarantee it.


Wholeheartedly agree, whether specialist machinery or difficult prob with car.


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## steamer659

Some were sealed, some were not.... Mostly in way of the high speed stop... Rather difficult to send governors ashore from the "middle of the pond" when there's no spare aboard.

While Woodward was once highly "proprietary" in their designs and internal workings, I believe that a Chief Engineer would not be giving it their all unless they at least attempted to repair something that was seriously hampering the safe operation of a vessel... But then again, with exception to smaller craft the majority of the Woodward's that I have encountered were limited to auxiliary machinery- Gensets, Cargo Pumps, Blowers and etc...


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## Duncan112

One thing I found out from the Woodward rep is that there is no such thing as a generic UG8, some of the internals are specific to the prime mover it is mounted on - we had some spare UG8s that were for Diahatsu engines and were selling the ship so thought we would be able to send them to other ships in the fleet that ran Yanmars and Holebys - not direct replacements - if you have a friendly Woodward agent if you give him the serial no of the governor he will be able to tell you which engine it was built for and, provided the work was done by a Woodward agent if it has been modified for a different engine.

Speaking of Governors, anyone come across the "Hagenuk" governor fitted to MANs, Regulateurs Europa (Paxman and Ruston in Bank Line) and the "Servodyne" (Never sailed with that one - Bank Line had them on some Doxfords - most unsucessfully apparently)


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## ART6

I never had to adjust any at sea, but when I was deputy chief mechanical engineer at a power station in 1970 the turbines had Woodward mechanical governors that required very careful adjustment to ensure that all the turbines shared load properly. I was the only one in the plant allowed to touch them. Then one day a shift charge engineer who knew everything decided that the control on the No. 3 turbine governor needed adjustment. As a result the turbine started to grab load and the other three started to shed it. Two of them shut down to idle, coincidentally just at the moment that the National Grid called for more load. No. 3 went into overload and promptly tripped, dumping all the load on the others, only one of which was in any condition to do anything about it. It too tripped and the station went off the grid. The relief valves on the five Babcock boilers scared the s**t out of the population for miles around!

Needless to say the Grid was not happy, particularly as we were a base load station. The plant was fined (from memory) £75,000 an hour for every hour we were down, and I was under some pressure to find out what had happened and rebalance all the governors. The shift engineer was summarily dismissed!

Not simple things to fiddle with, them Woodward governors!


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## steamer659

I absolutely agree- While agreeing that any type of superfluous adjustment to ANY governing mechanism is not a wise thing.. One hapless engineer "adjusted" a Woodward on an EMD Genset- nothing but problems- he messed with the stabilization and load limit adjustments, took me a good hour of gentle, minute adjustments... 

In 1987, I worked extensively installing Electronic Woodward Governors on Steam turbine Gensets on the USNS Ponchatoula- originally had GE mechanical-hydraulic turbine governors- was a very interesting experience, learned a lot from this Gent. He was very descriptive on varying governors, his teaching was invaluable; we talked a lot about the "Woodward Culture".

On the subject of governors, I think the worst mess that I have ever seen relating to a governor system was aboard a sister-ship to the one I was sailing Chief on... Standard type GE Cross Compound Geared Turbine Set, had a Gerotor type pump arrangement on the end of each turbine rotor, and went through speed limiting and trip relay type control valves which acted on the Governor Oil to the Maneuvering Valve (Schutte & Koerting), well some "interesting individual" had messed with all of the pilot valve settings, making it nearly impossible to attain more than say 75% of MCR due to the governing system going into speed limiting mode... the end result that the Chief that was aboard her had to remove and shop set all of the speed limiting relay valves and then trim them later at sea, it was a Reserve vessel so that we never knew who "adjusted" them... What a nightmare.... I think much worse than a Woodward "problem".. Cheers


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## berbex

romney01 said:


> I think the Woodward Governor must be one of the most reliable pieces of equipment in a ships engine room. I was amazed to learn that the UG8 generator governor was developed in the 1940's and still fitted as standard by mane marine engine builders today.
> Did anybody ever dare to try adjusting a governor at sea? Especially the good old PGA main engine unit.


Not only in the ship's engine room but also in land based power stations for emergency gens. 

We had one fitted to the only black-start emergency gen, a Fairbanks Morse aquired thru marshall aid the same year I was born. Had to dismantle it to replace drive shaft seal because it was losing oil fast-emptied within a week. The hunting on startup was terrible, I was instantly declared the station idiot for touching it, and which sent me back to study the drawings-and control theory-a damping problem. One hour later when no one was around I unlinked the comp piston and manually pulled it up and down to clear all the trapped air. Started up nicely then, adjusted the comp needle, and that was it.

Some of the best engineering I have 'fiddled' that ug8. It taught me a lot, in many ways.

That experience came handy on another job. A steam turboset started floating about from its load set-point, and since it was in parallel with others it was very disquieting. Spent a day fixing little things but nothing that explained what was happening. The system was a Westinghouse, hydraulic governing. The ug8 exp and a study of the drawing gave an answer. A 3/8" plug with a 1/16" hole for air bleed was blocked. That solved it.

You have to be careful fiddling with gov's. This time it was a bigger unit, improved westinghouse gov. Same air bleed system but different layout. Clambering up on the front pedestal to the uncovered gov I grabbed on to the pipe with air bleed hole, unthinking. There was a scream from the machine which tripped instantly-overspeed. Thankfully I, and the machine were still in one piece. Lesson learnt with no burnt hands.


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## makko

berbex said:


> Not only in the ship's engine room but also in land based power stations for emergency gens.
> 
> You have to be careful fiddling with gov's. This time it was a bigger unit, improved westinghouse gov. Same air bleed system but different layout. Clambering up on the front pedestal to the uncovered gov I grabbed on to *the pipe with air bleed hole, unthinking. There was a scream from the machine which tripped instantly-overspeed.* Thankfully I, and the machine were still in one piece. Lesson learnt with no burnt hands.


Berbex,

A very interesting account. As all have alluded, a governor is a magical piece of kit and almost never touched!

The part I highlighted from tour account interests me - would you possibly have a drawing to demonstrate the air bleed and describe what it's function is.

I ask because I had a case about two years ago where the engine, a Hyundai MAN-B&W 18V28/32H rated at 3.6 MW, which entered service in July 2004 could not be raised above 67% power. Whilst attempting to stop the unit to revise the governor controls, at 250KW when the load was taken off the engine it went into serious overspeed and the trip did not operate. They stopped the engine by closing the fuel valve. The engine and generator were quite badly damaged, suffice to say a new crankshaft was needed!

The governor was taken away by Woodward and tested which revealed no anomalies - Obviously, they were unable to replicate the fault and there was nothing mechanically or electronically wrong with the unit. I have always had a "bee in my bonnet" about what went wrong with the governor! 

Regards,
Dave


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## berbex

Hi Makko,

The two governors, the ug8 and the westinghouse are completely different, no comparison structure wise. But the effect of air in the system is quite the same.

In the UG8, once emptied of oil, or leaked out, the compensating damper empties slowly. Oil is viscous-air is not, ergo wild oscillations if you have trapped air -no damping. In fact start the engine always at the lowest load limit setting.

The westinghouse has pilot control oil, delivered like in many turbogens from pump, main or aux, with entrained air bubbles. If unbled hunting and load drifting occurs. When i grabbed the pipe i interfered with the bleed oil sending a pressure surge in the system, enough to send it to overspeed. 

What you describe is familiar. I have experienced 'stuck' governors. On turbogen after weeks at same load the pilot relay got stuck. Dirt in oil, many times from excess jointing compound ending up in the relay. Stopped the unit by slowly closing throttle valve-TO ZERO LOAD or start of motoring-or it overspeeds once you disconnect. I very foolishly inserted my finger to check when we removed the assembly. It was stuck open, but slammed shut about 30 sec later. Had it caught my finger it would have been a 48hour job to clean the finger tip out. We had the unit back on line for the evening load.

Another on a diesel gen that had the power lever gummed in full open. Overspeeds and trips the moment it starts. Brand new unit that rarely worked. There will be no tell-tale damage in the gov once released from stuck position. Similar on old fullagar.

Gumming of gov parts in FR6 gas turbines is very common.

Note on the ug8 (and on GE turbo govs) the pilot valve bushing rotates (see drawg in earlier post) so no gumming occurs, but elsewhere it may be a different story.

If you have an electronic/mechanical interface gumming could be a problem (same as fr6)


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## makko

Thanks, Berbex. As you have said, I expected what you describe as gumming, maybe even "aided" by thermal expansion. In the end, as it was a claim, no problem as damage occurred.

An amusing story regarding a steam turbine generator - A new control valve was installed for the hydrogen cooling circuit. As no one was around, the technician press ganged someone from the plant to report operation of the valve. As he sent signals, the helper reported movement but NOT WHICH WAY! The valve was in backwards and as the temperature in the generator rose, the valve starved it of cooling water resulting in a very well cooked generator which required rewinding!

Rgds.
Dave


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## berbex

Mercifully we seem to remember these episodes with nostalgia, quite forgetting the anxiety and the following days of unease, not sure what next to happen. These problems don't usually come singly, they seem to breed like mice before they strike.

Much of my experience is on 100% mechanical, and today I would say its best. Gumming on the electronic/mech interface eventually meant relpacing all, changing the lubricant brand, still having to every so often have the parts replaced, flushed and reset, plus other chores. And it took months before they seem to settle for a while.

The mechanical units, like the UG8 die still on their feet. Having said that I was told once by an engine salesman who was surprised I did not have a spare, that in Libya they had rooms full of them. Never bother to check what could be wrong, just replace.


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## Abbeywood.

berbex said:


> Mercifully we seem to remember these episodes with nostalgia, quite forgetting the anxiety and the following days of unease, not sure what next to happen. These problems don't usually come singly, they seem to breed like mice before they strike.
> 
> Much of my experience is on 100% mechanical, and today I would say its best. Gumming on the electronic/mech interface eventually meant relpacing all, changing the lubricant brand, still having to every so often have the parts replaced, flushed and reset, plus other chores. And it took months before they seem to settle for a while.
> 
> The mechanical units, like the UG8 die still on their feet. Having said that I was told once by an engine salesman who was surprised I did not have a spare, that in Libya they had rooms full of them. Never bother to check what could be wrong, just replace.


Some interesting feed-back from all responders.
Many thanks to you all.
regards, Pete'


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## retfordmackem

Abbeywood. said:


> Sailing in a Bibby ship, on a maiden voyage, problems were experienced with a UG8 unit fitted to a 6cyl Mirrlees alternator which developed a 'hunting' problem.
> After the Chief had made several adjustments to the controls, to no avail, he suggested that we take the governor off the engine and strip it down. (Alarm and horror on my part). As nothing untoward was found amiss it was 'boxed-up' again and tested with a stand-by man on the fuel shut-off. The Alternator ran ok for about 5-10 mins then started hunting again. Unsolved problem. !
> Next move was to contact Woodwards who offered to send a replacement for which the Chief was required to post a surety of $5000 returnable on receipt of the defective unit.
> New governor received on arrival in the 'States and fitted. No further problems experienced and Chief got his surety back so it seems that Woodwards found a fault in the original unit though no details ever reached my ears/eyes.
> 
> Another mystery mal-function of a Woodward governor, this time with a PGA unit fitted to the Main Eng' of Bibbys 'Wiltshire' when for no apparent reason the engine would slow down and after a while, speed up tp its set speed.
> After much though and deliberation the problem was solved one night, in the ships bar, when 'Sparky' happened to mention that it was strange that every night when he was sending off the weather reports the ship slowed down. Why?.The answer being his transmission frequency was compatible with the electronics responder of the M.E. Bridge control unit fitted to the governor


Velly interesting read.(Thumb)(Thumb)


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## makko

When governors turn rogue...................!

Rgds.
Dave


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## chadburn

A Gunsmith could not have achieved better bluing if he tried.(EEK)


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## makko

Hi Chad,
I think that they were very, very lucky that a piston didn't go walkabout! And hats off to the brave person that reached the main fuel isolation valve! The crankshaft was beyond repair.
Rgds.
Dave


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## Bradford Electric

romney01 said:


> I think the Woodward Governor must be one of the most reliable pieces of equipment in a ships engine room. I was amazed to learn that the UG8 generator governor was developed in the 1940's and still fitted as standard by mane marine engine builders today.
> Did anybody ever dare to try adjusting a governor at sea? Especially the good old PGA main engine unit.


If you would like to read about the theory of operation for Woodward diesel engine governors, check out my history site at oldwoodward.com. I am an unofficial Woodward Governor Company historian that loves to take apart old Woodward governor contraptions.


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## Bradford Electric

steamer659 said:


> Some were sealed, some were not.... Mostly in way of the high speed stop... Rather difficult to send governors ashore from the "middle of the pond" when there's no spare aboard.
> 
> While Woodward was once highly "proprietary" in their designs and internal workings, I believe that a Chief Engineer would not be giving it their all unless they at least attempted to repair something that was seriously hampering the safe operation of a vessel... But then again, with exception to smaller craft the majority of the Woodward's that I have encountered were limited to auxiliary machinery- Gensets, Cargo Pumps, Blowers and etc...


Today the Woodward Company is the world's oldest and largest designer and manufacturer of Prime Mover Controls. Check out my history site if you like to read about the evolution of Woodward governors(oldwoodward.com). Woodward...At the Heart of the System Since 1870. 150 years of control service!


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## Burntisland Ship Yard

If my memory serves me correctly the governors were fitted to the Hedemora alternators on the Danish class. I don't recall anyone having the need to "play with them ".....


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## Bradford Electric

Burntisland Ship Yard said:


> If my memory serves me correctly the governors were fitted to the Hedemora alternators on the Danish class. I don't recall anyone having the need to "play with them ".....


I like to buy vintage Woodward governors on eBay and take them apart just to see how they are made and what makes them work. Check out my oldwoodward.com history site to see my Woodward governor collection.


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## taffe65

Burntisland Ship Yard said:


> If my memory serves me correctly the governors were fitted to the Hedemora alternators on the Danish class. I don't recall anyone having the need to "play with them ".....





Bradford Electric said:


> I like to buy vintage Woodward governors on eBay and take them apart just to see how they are made and what makes them work. Check out my oldwoodward.com history site to see my Woodward governor collection.


Who is this geezer


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## Varley

What a great hobby. I have set up the two telegraph sets I have and am about to have saturated with odd-spec. meggers. I may have to add Woodward governors to my collection (a bit of a problem having an engine to go with them).


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## captainconfusion

Just one of those pieces of kit on a BP Tanker 28, 32, 35, 42, and 50, and 70.s that was not IT built, and generally had an 'ALLENS OF BEDFORD T/A Set, or a Peter Brotherhood Set. The woodwood governer gave no problems as far as I remember, it was the quality of steam, and water treatment that gave the headaches??


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## geoffu

Not sure if it was a Woodward, but we did have Major  problems with one, I think it was the Strathcarron as it had a CPP. Everything is ready for departure except the engine won't start. Thank goodness I wasn't on watch. Everybody running around like headless chickens but can't find the problem. Then for some reason, somebody checked the governor The g/g glass was showing OK oil level, but he looked inside anyway and found no oil. Apparently a flake of paint had blocked off the hole on the glass.


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## Varley

Bradford E,

I will not look for an engine to play governors on just yet. The Ebay prices for Woodward kit are rather rich for my mean pocket.


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## Bradford Electric

Varley said:


> What a great hobby. I have set up the two telegraph sets I have and am about to have saturated with odd-spec. meggers. I may have to add Woodward governors to my collection (a bit of a problem having an engine to go with them).


Everybody collects someting, I just happen to collect Woodward governor contraption and their operating manuals. They do not make them like they used to. Woodward liked to over engineer and manufacture their governors to out last the ship workers!


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## sternchallis

We had a Woodward man down to rebuild/service a UG8
from an Allen Generator (we always carried a spare UG8).
To see him taking all the parts out was like a woman empyting her hand bag item by item. The sum of the parts was greater than the whole, yet they fitted and worked.


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## captainconfusion

, , , ?oh dear dearies, are we all like old women full of talk and gas, and professional OLDFARTS


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## Bradford Electric

sternchallis said:


> We had a Woodward man down to rebuild/service a UG8
> from an Allen Generator (we always carried a spare UG8).
> To see him taking all the parts out was like a woman empyting her hand bag item by item. The sum of the parts was greater than the whole, yet they fitted and worked.


Qualified repairmen that do this for a living make it look easy. I have a first generation








1940's UG8 governor in my collection and ony take it apart so far so as to be able to put it back correctly. If you read the service manual for this governor it gets too complicated for the average person because you need special tools and equipment etc.


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## Bradford Electric

Bradford Electric said:


> Qualified repairmen that do this for a living make it look easy. I have a first generation
> View attachment 688926
> 
> 1940's UG8 governor in my collection and ony take it apart so far so as to be able to put it back correctly. If you read the service manual for this governor it gets too complicated for the average person because you need special tools and equipment etc.


My history website is oldwoodward.com for those history buffs out there.


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## sternchallis

Bit like train spotting I suppose.


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## captainconfusion

I am enjoying the play on words, and the puffs of old wind? as a kettles and windmill and whistles engineer, I am most probably not appreciating those mechanically minded mecanno, and up and downers, and computer kids, never mind those flash harry;s on the block, or that person in the fridge with the fare paying cargo. I have been refreshing my years of marine knowledge with Merchant shipping Notice MGM 69[M], and the modern career path at sea, quite a route, and an attack on that 'grey matter;? Never mind- dear sirs, and sisters [now we are non sexists in the er or on board ship} it is all about that day or night when our decisions in command, or policies we follow catch up with us, and King Neptune and God is at hand with some timely experience of how to proceed???
Well I never, we all near our fellow seafarers, and a touch of their guidance in life at sea? What say you????
Here endeth the lesson, just say a Prier, and believe in ones self.


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## Varley

Flying balls, Sir, flying balls. Woodward could govern a turbine as well as a white boiler suited hot foggie at the manoeuvring platform watched by a Cockburns Emergency valve. More modern plant, of course, allows the hot foggie the comfort of a control room and automatic control even if that is more integrated than that achieved with an elegant green casting and whirly bits inside.


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## Bradford Electric

romney01 said:


> I think the Woodward Governor must be one of the most reliable pieces of equipment in a ships engine room. I was amazed to learn that the UG8 generator governor was developed in the 1940's and still fitted as standard by mane marine engine builders today.
> Did anybody ever dare to try adjusting a governor at sea? Especially the good old PGA main engine unit.


If you like Woodward Prime Mover Control history, check out my Oldwoodward.com history site. History in the making!


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## Peter Hewson

I don't remember in 20 years, ever having to do more than check the oil level, although I think we drained and refilled one once because it looked a bit manky. One of the more reliable pieces of kit, as I recall.


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## P.Arnold

Regulateurs Europa (RE) (a division of Paxman Diesels) manufactured *governors* which I think were primarily used on gen sets in the CHP sector, though they were used on the British Rail Intercity 125's with the Paxman 'Valenta' engine.
RE at my time with them 1990's, was developing the Viking series of electronic governors. I left before it went into production.


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## Bradford Electric

P.Arnold said:


> Regulateurs Europa (RE) (a division of Paxman Diesels) manufactured *governors* which I think were primarily used on gen sets in the CHP sector, though they were used on the British Rail Intercity 125's with the Paxman 'Valenta' engine.
> RE at my time with them 1990's, was developing the Viking series of electronic governors. I left before it went into production.


Hi Mister Arnold. Thank you for your story. I am always looking for more history information on companies that manufacture diesel engine governor systems. I have read a little about the Regulateurs Europa governor controls on their website but do not have any catalogs or papers about their controls. Do you have any governor information you could share with me? I have spent years developing my Woodward engine governor history website and it is a fun hobby. Check it out at www.oldwoodward.com. History in the making!


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