# The LECKY???



## david freeman

inmy days with BPin the 60's The Lecky was watchkeeper with the 4/e on the motor ships (Old DC units). With the newer vessels with AC power Plant The Lecky became a Day Worker.
IN jo SHELL when I talked to some of their engineers while on ticket leave, I understood that IN joe SHELL made the responsibility of the electrical ships power plant to a 3/E Rank.
I did sail with a couple of BP C/E who started out as a lecky did 10 years sea ticket time before be able to take their 2/e and c/e certificates.They were great guys and knew what was what.(H)(H)(H)


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## Ron Stringer

David,

I saw it somewhat differently. When I sailed with Shell in the 1960s, there was no Electrician, the 3rd Engineer was made responsible for all the electrical work. Rather than being made up to 3rd Engineer status, the lecky was done away with and his job was tacked on to that of the 3rd.


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## LouisB

Ron Stringer said:


> David,
> 
> I saw it somewhat differently. When I sailed with Shell in the 1960s, there was no Electrician, the 3rd Engineer was made responsible for all the electrical work. Rather than being made up to 3rd Engineer status, the lecky was done away with and his job was tacked on to that of the 3rd.


In the sixties, the old Tide class RFA oilers carried three Electricians. The vessels were DC and an absolute nightmare - my lungs never fully recovered from the uptake flue gasses. Later on and with more specialised ships, three Electricians and a wireman were carried. Similarly today on a few of the ships several are carried, bearing in mind the amount of kit on them. From what I gather a day-work engineer is also trained to maintain whatever weapons are carried.


LouisB. (Scribe)


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## ART6

On my first trip we had a daywork lecky, but that was the last time I ever encountered one. From then on it was, as others have said, the 3/e's job. Actually not a bad development for me because, when I assumed that exalted rank, I had to learn about that mysterious aspect of physics and do it fast. It has stood me in good stead for many years ashore designing and building large process plants, including increasingly sophisticated control systems.

Fortunately, in all of those years, no-one has ever asked me for my qualifications to do so (I never went to university and I never got beyond a Chief's steam ticket). A clear example, perhaps, that bullsh*t really can baffle brains!


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## LouisB

ART6 said:


> On my first trip we had a daywork lecky, but that was the last time I ever encountered one. From then on it was, as others have said, the 3/e's job. Actually not a bad development for me because, when I assumed that exalted rank, I had to learn about that mysterious aspect of physics and do it fast. It has stood me in good stead for many years ashore designing and building large process plants, including increasingly sophisticated control systems.
> 
> Fortunately, in all of those years, no-one has ever asked me for my qualifications to do so (I never went to university and I never got beyond a Chief's steam ticket). A clear example, perhaps, that bullsh*t really can baffle brains!


The thing is that learning by, and later applying experience, lets you know the job inside and out. I have known many employers in the past who felt safer and trusted engineers of various disciplines who came up the hard way - based on knowledge and practical application.
Most of the trouble shooters within the marine salvage industry are all engineers with years of hands on hard grafting work - not theoreticians


LouisB. (Scribe).


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## Barrie Youde

#5

It has been said that salvage begins where seamanship ends - and I doubt that a truer word has been spoken!


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## twogrumpy

Most of my time was on daywork, only going on watch if we were an engineer short for whatever reason.
All of my 18 years I sailed as the only Lecky on board, discounting Labuan which was a different matter, and for a couple of weeks handover when I first went on one of the big steamers.
I walked out of college in my second year, preferring the practical side of the job, never did me any harm as remained in employment for the next 40 years, some of it better than others.(Jester)


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## Shipbuilder

I sailed in 19 ships between 1961 and 1992, and only two of them did not have electricans - an Everard short sea trader and a South East Gas flatiron. The 3rd engineers did the electrical work on these two. All the rest, had daywork electricans. The passenger liners had four or five. Then, later on, it seemed that radio officers were dispensed with and replaced by Electro Technical Officers who seemed to be highly qualified electricians! I (R/O) was sent on an Advance Marine Electronics course in 1974, but it was completely beyond me and I quit after the first module. But it never hurt my career at all and I left with voluntary redundancy in late 1992 (from a brand new passenger liner) because by then I was fed up with the whole show! The radio officer in that ship was replaced shortly after by an ETO (ex 3rd electrican) that I had sailed with years before in _Edinburgh Castle_!
Bob


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## jmirvine

As an ex-Leckie, I was mostly on the 8-12 assisting the 4/E. However, I did have a couple of spells being in charge of the watch with a J/E as my assistant.

All my service was on BP's "Birdy Boats", and a couple of 16's.
I Started on the Br Merlin, then the Br Fulmar, which was one of the worst ships I sailed on. Then I went to the Br Crusader, followed by the Br Mallard. My next ship was the Br Patrol, and on all these I was on the 8-12 with the 4/E.

After leave, I went back to the Br Patrol, but this time I was in charge of the 4-8 with a J/E. The 2/E was on day work.

Next trip was on the Br Curlew on the 8-12 with the 4/E. After that, I went to the Br Cygnet, first as assistant to the 4/E on the 8-12, and then in charge of the 4-8 with a J/E.

My final trip was back on the Br Merlin on the 8-12 with the 4/E. After that, I saw the light and transferred to the offshore division on the Forties Field.

I stayed with BP until 1995 when I was made redundant and went to work on the NW Shelf of Australia for a while before coming back to Aberdeen.

I must say that I enjoyed (most of) my time at sea, and it was a wonderful training ground for the offshore oil & gas side.


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## Superlecky

Trident/P&O Bulk always had daywork Leckys, however we also worked what hours were required whenever under pilotage or in fog. I also remember standing watches as J/E to the 3/E or 2/E on a few occasions when one of the juniors or the 4/E were unwell.

Shell definitely didn't carry Lecky's in the 1960's as, although we didn't get many of them in Falmouth when I was serving my time there, whenever one appeared on the drydock list all the yard Leckys used to start talking about new cars, holidays or new furniture, as they were in such a poor state electrically it meant virtually unlimited overtime.


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## Jim Glover

Spent 7 years as 3rd Engineer with Shell on VLCC and Gas Tankers , never had any training at all in marine electrics or fault finding.Its amazing how quickly one learnt and was up to speed with it all.I was working offshore on a cable laying vessel 2 years ago and we had a electrical lay technician who did not know how to meggar motors.funny enough he spent all his time on shift texting on his phone such is life o


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## twogrumpy

I Can see no reason why any competent 3/E should not have be able to make a go of the Leckie work.
After all by the time he had reached that position he would have a good knowledge of the ships equipment and systems, and if he had come through a company scheme he will have done electrics I believe for his ticket, if however basic. 
After all, being told that the T/A circ. pump has packed up, one would look a little silly if one had to ask WTF is that?(Jester)

Not sure if the same would apply today, my experience is pre 86.


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## Varley

I don't argue with that except for practice to keep the skill and the logical processes sharpened. But I don't think you give your ifs sufficient weight.

Should the officer have passed his formal examinations up to second or chief then in theory he should be better qualified than I am (I wager I would still be the Champion of choice for the fair maiden at the tournee de lecky fault- finding).

I also take the point of knowing the plant better. On my first trip E/O (also my first trip on a motor ship on Norvegia Team - bad, it took some later dissabusing to grasp that all stone crushers did not crush stone the Gotaverken way!) I asked the man I was relieving what a certain motor/? aggregate did (it was the yoke lubrication pump). He knew all about the motor and where the starter was but nothing about its duty. Something of an eye-opener.

How does he get the same experience as Lecky in leckying? Does he do twice the tour length, leckying one day and plumbing the next? Does he vie for a job with the other company practitioners?

Perhaps I would be cruel to quote Dr. Johnson's remarks about women preachers.

I have to admit that I did encourage working towards a class III (as it was then) but this was entirely selfish. Less specifically electrical skill onboard, more work for me and in 'my time' no-one was unaware of trigger fingers itching to axe anyone not named on the minimum manning certificate. Having an E/O ETO whatever with a class III too meant he was more flexible and less likely to disappear from the manifest. A mixed experience with little immediate outcome but greed rather than fun took over some who went on to do chiefs and to 'command', including my one 'good' Filipino (at that time, no reflection intended on present stock). Not good for me why should I waste whatever resources I was allowed to lose them to plumbing?


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## twogrumpy

Much to chew on there.
I put in the "If" regarding coming up through a company scheme for fear of upsetting any 3/E's who might have come up through the shore apprenticeship route, many were around in my time as well as a few uncert 3/E's.

It was an interesting situation towards the end of my career where I had more time in than many 2/e's I sailed with, though things on the whole went smoothly.

One thing I did say when BP were seconding in 3/E's to do the job, they should be on daywork the same as Leckies, I thought it only fair.

I point out again, all my experience is pre 86, I have no idea at all on the joys of seagoing today, from what I have picked up I don't feel I am missing anything.


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## Varley

I had already appreciated your caveat. I am afraid that could also be applied to many leckys of the era too. Worse than simply incompetents in the population was that, with no compulsory qualification, nothing apart from the usual (and always good, or at their most accurate, non-committal) personnel reports to sort the wheat (three cheers for the mines and the gas board for actually educating their apprentices) and the chafe. 

I'll risk repeating it but a senior Plumber here (former Chief plumber of the marine admin) etc. and ex Shell - I keep getting his oil company wrong might have been BP. Is always proud for their running without lecky even on T2s which he knew well. Perhaps not so well. When I ask if the motor rotor winding was shorted out during the asynchronous run up or whether it was just on the damping bars all I get is that there were two levers and if you advanced one of them a notch before the motor was running fast enough the whole ship started rocking violently from side to side.

A man who has actually heard pole slip but doesn't know it.


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## twogrumpy

Hey, never mind the gas board and the mines, what about the naval dockyards!!(Jester)


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## Nick Jones

Gentlemen,
After serving an apprenticeship in the fringe of the car industry I joined Furness Ship Management, actually PSNC at Canada Dock Liverpool, as a Second Electrician. I had very limited experience with DC equipment, just some time at Tech school. My first ship SS Pizarro had an excellent Chief Electrician Trevor Williams. He taught me a lot about the equipment in particular that maintenance is non-stop. We worked on the winches on the outward journey, in between ports and on the way home. In the year I sailed on that ship, I never got called out to fix a winch out of hours. I always carried out this practice on every subsequent ship. On my first trip for Brocklebanks on the SS Matra the mate asked what I was doing on the way home as none of the other Electricians had bothered. As a Second Electrician, I spent time in the engine room on the move book and as cover for sick junior engineers as required. On my last ship I was on the 12-4 watch with a cadet for a few days between ports and had the unenviable job of phoning the Chief when one of the generators threw a rod in the middle of our watch.
During my time at sea I believed I served a service that allowed others to concentrate on their main duties.
Cheers,
Nick Jones Ex- Chief Electrician.


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## Varley

twogrumpy said:


> Hey, never mind the gas board and the mines, what about the naval dockyards!!(Jester)


I have no idea about naval dockyards (barring, perhaps Portsmouth with Longbow) but in general I can say that outfitting a new ship has precious little to do with supporting her in service. Some aspects of commissioning excluded.

One electrical aspect that may speak for itself is the removal of ACBs that would tolerate only three openings under short circuit level currents from Class type approval. The reason being that in many cases they had had all three 'lives' before sea trials. Were such faults common when under the crew's control this would have been manifest more often (spectacularly, arc unquenchingly, boilersuit browningly manifest).


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## binliner

Served my time with the NCB as an electrician and six months spent with welders, carpenters, turners and blacksmiths to get a grounding in other trades/skills. Then a day a week at Tech. College followed by six months full time (mid 60s) where the lecturer spent one afternoon talking about D.C. as he said it was a thing from the past. Spent the next 10 years on D.C. ships.


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## Varley

I can also make an educated guess that you got no better remuneration for being properly qualified either.

Of course DC ships could show another quality in Lecky (I one under my care briefly but never sailed on one in any capacity). Exercising what must be a true trade skill, only learned by practice, at the many commutators a DC ship (with deck machinery!) could offer. Hard work. Not an alternative to qualification but excused much.

(I chose to avoid hard work AND the need for excuses! It is not that anything that we needed learned was a great deal more difficult than O level physics).


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## Nick Jones

Varley,
My apprenticeship consisted of 6 months in a training school learning how to file a cube 1" all around within so many thou. which I must admit I only accomplished after being machined and all I had to do was remove the machining marks. The instructor was very suspicious, but passed me on to the next was working on lathes and milling machines, which was much more to my liking as we had used them in high school.
Once my 6 months was up I was offered a position as an apprentice electrician, which I jumped at. I spent the next 51/2 years working on all kinds of machines, but not one was a DC machine. The only DC I learned was in Tech College which I attended one day a week and sometimes two nights a week. Troubleshooting and maintenance was the norm and served me well at sea.
Cheers,
Nick Jones Ex- Chief Electrician.


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## macca57

Varley, a merry Christmas.
A rather generalising comment regarding Leckies (or lack of) qualifications.
On the lower Clyde in the sixties all apprentices had to attend day release or night school failure to attend-sacked.
Yes there were bad Leckies as well as good Leckies, similarly there were bad engineers and also good engineers.
My own credentials, I served my apprenticeship with a marine electrical design company, designing ships installations, switchboards and control panels.
Many apprentices from the company. on gaining their journeyman status joined the MN and all were fully qualified to understand an operate the intricacies of shipboard elelectrics.


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## Ron Stringer

Nick Jones said:


> .... how to file a cube 1" all around ...


If it was all around, doesn't that make it a sphere and not a cube? (Jester)


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## Nick Jones

Ron,
All right between faces then.
Merry Christmas to all extant Leckies, who sailed the oceans wide.
Cheers, 
Nick Jones.


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## John Dryden

And a thank you to the leckies who kept five hatches working,with derricks, for days on end in every port in the world.


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## spongebob

John Dryden said:


> And a thank you to the leckies who kept five hatches working,with derricks, for days on end in every port in the world.


Especially those that maintained the electro-hydraulic winches that were the 1950's alternatives to the reliable Clark-Chapmen units. 
I cannot remember the name but we had them on all the Union Co colliers and they kept the Leckies constantly occupied.
They seemed to be tarred with the same brush as the British Polar main engines on the same ships.

Bob


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## clarkie59

On leaving the sea as2/E with a Combined 1st Class Cert I went into the maintenance and operation of Building Engineering Services. The people I worked with were surprised at my electrical knowledge all of which was gained from theory in my tickets, practical experience and from instruction over the years at sea by some very good Leckies that I sailed within BP.That knowledge was in my opinion not that great,how ever it was better than a lot of "qualified" electricians I had working for me or came accross. I was and still am amazed at how few can read read control circuit drawings unless they are specialist controls engineers.


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## Nick Jones

John,
Your very welcome after all that was our job anyway. 
By the way we liked to sleep at nights even when cargo was being worked.
Cheers,
Nick Jones Ex chief electrician.


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## twogrumpy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcsoqIylmDI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmWNT9G99Sc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=du6nYwPLBsw

This is quite entertaining.LOL


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## sternchallis

twogrumpy said:


> I Can see no reason why any competent 3/E should not have be able to make a go of the Leckie work.
> After all by the time he had reached that position he would have a good knowledge of the ships equipment and systems, and if he had come through a company scheme he will have done electrics I believe for his ticket, if however basic.
> After all, being told that the T/A circ. pump has packed up, one would look a little silly if one had to ask WTF is that?(Jester)
> 
> Not sure if the same would apply today, my experience is pre 86.


Despite having got my Chief's Motor and taking the two Electrotechnology exams on the way ,( and being the son of a factory maintenance electrician, nothing rubbed off) it did not teach you to be an electrician, lots of ac, dc, magnetism theory, BH curves and looking at different electrical components you might find on a ship, to give an understanding, but certainly not to fault find say dc starter and control gear for a deck winch or a main circ pump. 
If it takes a 4 year apprenticeship to train an electrician working on nothing but electrical work, to throw in a mains engineer that may not have an interest in at the deep end was maybe asking a lot by shipping companies.
We always said , "If its got a wire running to it , get the electrician".

As we always carried one and sometimes two electricians, some of the older ones liked to get into the sauce and were not really into paperwork. When it came to meggar readings one particular lecky tended to flog his readings, until an extra item was added to the list, a chainlocker pump, which he duly put a reading in for. The chainlocker pump was hand semi rotary and he was found out.


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## LouisB

sternchallis said:


> Despite having got my Chief's Motor and taking the two Electrotechnology exams on the way ,( and being the son of a factory maintenance electrician, nothing rubbed off) it did not teach you to be an electrician, lots of ac, dc, magnetism theory, BH curves and looking at different electrical components you might find on a ship, to give an understanding, but certainly not to fault find say dc starter and control gear for a deck winch or a main circ pump.
> If it takes a 4 year apprenticeship to train an electrician working on nothing but electrical work, to throw in a mains engineer that may not have an interest in at the deep end was maybe asking a lot by shipping companies.
> We always said , "If its got a wire running to it , get the electrician".
> 
> As we always carried one and sometimes two electricians, some of the older ones liked to get into the sauce and were not really into paperwork. When it came to meggar readings one particular lecky tended to flog his readings, until an extra item was added to the list, a chainlocker pump, which he duly put a reading in for. The chainlocker pump was hand semi rotary and he was found out.


As a marine electrician for 30 odd years, I can only but agree with what you state. I had initially a four and a half year initiation, age 15 to 20 years in a fairly large factory in Liverpool. This place had everything from AC to DC, small and large, simple to complex and everything in between. I went to day release but never caught onto the more esoteric/theoretical side of electrical equipment - I understood how things worked (or didn't) and found I could successfully function without a profound knowledge of mathematics.

I also sailed with a few C/Eng's who insisted that I tell them exactly the cause of some electrical failure or other - usually with semi conductor control gear or some such none mechanical electronic controls. The simple answer of, for example, a thyrystor failure and replacement after checking input voltages was not accepted. I was then subjected to a tirade of electronic theory from the Chief. This of course had no relationship to finding and curing the fault in the first place. But it made that particular person feel he was earning his salary??

A breath of fresh air to me regarding my job was working for a marine salvage company on the Western Cape of S. Africa. Totally different culture. Although liaising with the C/Eng I dealt directly on many occasions with the companies head office. Although prior to SA I was fairly happy on most appointments to ships various, perhaps I was sorry that I had not worked under these conditions earlier in my seagoing career - who knows??


(Scribe)


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## spongebob

All four Leckies on board Rangitane in 1957 were from Stornaway .
Did the island specialise in Electricians ?
Just wondering

Bob


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## hibberd

When I was in Shell as 3rd we didnt get any training even on things like the lift which was a part of our packet to maintain and all galley equipment including washing machines etc. I did later have a two week electronics course as they started to build flashing lights and buzzers into the ships in the late 1970's. It was often an amazement when the lights go out hiow quickly you can learn how electickery works


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## Varley

How much better it would have been to learn the electrickery before the lights went out.

(Not that that is usually caused by failed electrickery but by insufficient polishing of pig iron - pig iron, him go round, him make light. Pig iron, him not go round, light him go out. Some old type pig iron still go round when him dark, then often much pig iron, buggered pig iron. Much better aeroderivative pig iron. When light go out turbine run but Lipps stuff creep astern and bugger mooring ropes. Work for lookout peoples, much bad language. Pig iron polishers put on ear protectors, sip Skol).


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## Nick Jones

I have what may seem a dumb question for the Lecky's, but my mind is drawing a blank at the moment. Who where the manufacturers of the winches on most British ships? The only one that comes to mind is Clarke Chapman, but I know I worked on at least one other major brand made in the U.K.
It's amazing what goes through ones mind when you can't sleep some nights. 
Cheers,
Nick Jones


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## Don A.Macleod

Nick Jones said:


> I have what may seem a dumb question for the Lecky's, but my mind is drawing a blank at the moment. Who where the manufacturers of the winches on most British ships? The only one that comes to mind is Clarke Chapman, but I know I worked on at least one other major brand made in the U.K.
> It's amazing what goes through ones mind when you can't sleep some nights.
> Cheers,
> Nick Jones


I'm sure you're thinking of "Lawrence Scott" Nick. You would have had them on the Matra (my first ship in 1963) good machines once you got to know them. They and Clarke Chapman were the better known ones. Sunderland Forge also built winches. Don


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## uisdean mor

Don A.Macleod said:


> I'm sure you're thinking of "Lawrence Scott" Nick. You would have had them on the Matra (my first ship in 1963) good machines once you got to know them. They and Clarke Chapman were the better known ones. Sunderland Forge also built winches. Don


Hi Don 
What/who was the company in Finnieston ( round about where the new Hydro is now) which manufactured all he winch control gear. memory fails but pretty sure they had an excellent reputation. 
Rgds 
Uisdean


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## k.atkinson

When my father was 3E & or Electrician on the RFA Brambleleaf they were selected to participate in the 1937 Fleet Review. He had to collect enough cable and lamps from the dockyard stores then install to dress the ship overall. He must have impressed as a telegram praised their appearance was received. 

I was trained as a cadet and must have had a sufficient understanding of electrotrickery that I assisted the electrician on cabin electrics where I learnt not to trust fuse-box labels. When cargo was discharged using the derricks I assisted the electrician again fixing coils and contactors as fast as stevedores could break them. One Irish lecky had hands like shovels so anything confined devolved to me. Much later when we had a visiting electrician I had to keep things going until his scheduled visit. I was experienced on 110v & 220v DC then 440V AC.


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## Jim Glover

hibberd said:


> When I was in Shell as 3rd we didnt get any training even on things like the lift which was a part of our packet to maintain and all galley equipment including washing machines etc. I did later have a two week electronics course as they started to build flashing lights and buzzers into the ships in the late 1970's. It was often an amazement when the lights go out hiow quickly you can learn how electickery works


Had the same experience with Shell Tankers back in the Seventies, spent many a field day trying to understand electrical circuits for the lift all in French.


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