# newcastle wherries



## paddyt. (Jun 18, 2009)

Hi I'm a third year student at newcastle university and I'm doing my dissertation on the wrecks of some Wherries abandoned on the, Ryton side, bank of the Tyne at the Newburn bridge. I think they were cleared to Newburn around 1969. I was hoping that someone out there may have some information on them as the local museums and archives have nothing. Photo's or general information would be greatly appreciated as its a shame that they were just left to rot and decay after a life time of hard work on the Tyne and no one even has the name of even one of these vessels recorded. Thanks for taking the time to read this.


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## tsell (Apr 29, 2008)

Welcome from Australia, Paddy.
I am sure you will find a few Geordies who will be able to help you on this great site.
Good luck,

Taffy R556959


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## billyboy (Jul 6, 2005)

Welcome aboard from the Philippines mate. Enjoy all this great site has to offer.


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## benjidog (Oct 27, 2005)

Welcome from Lancashire.
I hope one of our members will be able to help with your research.


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## paddyt. (Jun 18, 2009)

Thanks for the replys guys. Great site and lots of interesting content. fingers crossed for information(Thumb)


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## danube4 (Aug 20, 2005)

paddyt, have you seen this bit of info? Hope it is of inerest.


http://freespace.virgin.net/l.carter/wherry.htm

Barney.


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## paddyt. (Jun 18, 2009)

Hi Barney, thanks for the link. But alas yea, I have that page already. I told the Discovery museum about my dissertation topic and they kindly let me go to the Beamish Museum to have a look at her. Believe me that small photo does'nt do her justice this is a seriously impressive boat, I tried to upload a few pictures but my computer wouldnt play ball. Just incase your interested the site at Newburn saw 6 boats the same size as the Elswick No2 abandoned after a river clearence by the Tyne Port Authority but now theres just the bare bones of the lower hull and a large scatter field of ribs and strakes left, its a real shame as these shell clinker giants can trace their lineage all the way back to the scandinavian long boats. Thanks again for the link (Thumb)


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## treeve (Nov 15, 2005)

I am in the midst of preparing a 'history' of Wherry Mine (off the shore of Penzance, Mount's Bay), for now I will quote from JS Courtney 1825-1875
_At the west of the Promenade is Wherrytown. In the beginning of this century Captain Curtis started a Mine at this place, but it soon ceased to be worked, and for nearly thirty years was idle, until in 1836 it was resumed by a company. After a year or two it was again stopped; the mine buildings were utilized by Mr. J. J. A. Boase, the owner of the soil and lord of the Wherry Mine. He turned the counting-house into the house which was long the residence of the officer of the coast-guard, and is now occupied by the chief boatman. Mr. Boase afterwards built a row of cottages for the coast-guard men, and within recent years cottages have been built by other people._
The mine was named Wherry Mine because of the boats used to take miners and ore back and forth to the mine, when it was covered by tide.
From the name being a 'wherry' - can I assume that they were vessels of the East Coast type, or similar?


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## Nick Balls (Apr 5, 2008)

Just following the thread and interested.
The Word 'Wherry' and 'Keel' also relate to other types of vessel on the east coast. Most Famously the Norfolk Wherry (Also an earlier type of vessel the Keel ) Also another type of vessel was the Thames Wherry. Edgar J March's book Inshore craft of Great Britain is worth reading for general background information. Unfortunately this does not give specific reference. Still worth looking at. The origins of these types of vessel are always put down as 'Viking' due to the clinker construction. Two good books on Norfolk Wherries are . Wherries & Waterways(Robert Malster) Black Sailed Traders (Roy Kemp) Again this is only of interest if you are interested in the construction of such vessels.


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## treeve (Nov 15, 2005)

That is a line of interest thank you; Thomas Curtis began mining in 1778, he died in 1791. The mine was wrecked by a ship held by a storm in 1798. It tore down the sea tower and the ventilation bridge. The actual engine was on shore, with the ventilating column taken to pneumatics. The only description of the wherry is given as a 'flat bottomed boat known as a wherry'. Thomas Curtis was a Cornshman, a poor farmer; just why and how he decided to dig over 800 feet offshore, I have yet to discover. It is the reference to a wherry and the American brig that was lost in the storm that I have a strong desire to settle. Perhaps he had bought an East Coast vessel, Wherry is an odd word to have used in Cornwall at that time.


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## Nick Balls (Apr 5, 2008)

Treeve
Don't get too confused. 'Wherry' is a general term. It could be described as a cargo barge of a certain type, A 'Lighter' The original "Keel' (Then later) 'Wherry' was distinctive by its construction. This would be constructed in a very ancient manner. In the case of the Norfolk Wherry this was a double ended clinker construction, built without a construction 'frame' ie it was built simply from the keel up letting the planks form the hull in overlapping fashion (Clinker) Fitting the frames in after the planking. Unlike many more modern arrangements. Amazingly in Norfolk these were always built without reference to any plans! Yet the finished vessel would be the correct cargo capacity (Typicaly between 20 to 40 Tonne) http://www.wherryyachtcharter.org/other.html
We are I know talking about your Newcastle Wherry. I know different but the name suggests that the origins are the same.


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## treeve (Nov 15, 2005)

I am trying to discover why a Middle English word, was in use in Cornwall by a 'poor farmer', from a village well away from the sea, particularly at a time of the Cornish dialectic. So, any source, I look at. I have a number of old dictionaries, and have references as to Saxon and Cornish dictionaries. From what I have so far, at that time of the late 18th C it seems to have been applied to large light barges from the Norfolk area. 
Would I be right in assuming that its design stems from the 'Viking' 'long boat' for river and coast, as well as the sea? 
Please can you point me to an illustration of its lower hull/section of its beam?


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## Nick Balls (Apr 5, 2008)

Treeve . If you can find a copy of 'Black sailed Traders by Roy Kemp there are plans of the Wherry 'Gleaner' which were typical. The Wherry 'Albion' line plan is in Robert Malster's book. Wherries and Waterways. 
Cornish Fishing is connected to 'East Coast Fishing 'traditions. I believe this still survives (Just) in Newlyn where a lowestoft accent is still to be heard! 
The Norfolk Wherry was a truly remarkable sailing vessel and survives in the Wherry Maud (Very typical) and not quite so typical the Albion http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxMy3Fo8YZI


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## treeve (Nov 15, 2005)

Thank you very much; I am making great headway with fact gathering. The line of thought of Lowestoft also appeals to me. A linguistic and real connection. The mine was worked first in 1713, but did not get its name Wherry Mine until it was worked 1778, when the flat bottomed boats were used; the actual distance to shore was 820 yards, the mine entrance being under up to 18feet of water most of the time. I can quite well imagine Thomas Curtis sharing a pint, asking how he could best get the ore ashore ... Got just the thing ... a wherry. Thank you ...

Book ordered ..


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## Nick Balls (Apr 5, 2008)

Well Treeve the history of coastal fishing is tied into other activities. My Family fished off the Norfolk coast but were also farming. Branches of this family lived and fished as far south as Whitsable in kent and as far North as Peterhead in NE Scotland. Its very complex. Norfolk Wherries were only really used on the Norfolk Broads (In land) but many other types of vessel existed, each with separate names. Wherry I suppose generally means very heavily constructed, built for cargo and of a certain type of build. 
I do know that in the 19th Cent a couple of Norfolk Wherries did make it down to the west country. (One was also for many years also used as a houseboat in Paris! ) However they were not a seagoing vessel. The Friesians used vessels called 'Ceols' (Similar to the word 'Keel' ) a very similar hull shape. Ceol refered to a duty levied on vessel when they entered port.


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## treeve (Nov 15, 2005)

What an amazing book, complete with lists of vessels and some wonderful constructional drawings. I found the discussion on the origin of the name very stimulating, and after thinking this through, various ideas and the uses, it is obvious to me that the wherry used being precisely to carry large quantities of ore, half a mile to shore, was no passenger carrying Thames wherry. The shore was heavy shingle and there are rocks to be negotiated. The period over which the mine was worked by wherry was 1778-1791. Either a non-seagoing vessel was towed by a fishing vessel to Penzance, or, more likely, a vessel was built here for the purpose, based on the inherited knowledge of a Lowestoft man. Thankyou.


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