# Dotterel



## garethmoelfre (Jul 21, 2005)

Has anyone a photograph of the Dotterel which was sunk 1941 by a German E boat somwhere by The Wash.
The reason I am looking for it is for the son one of those who lost his life in returning to try and recover the ships papers - when another torpedo hit the ship.
The son himself is now retired (Cox)W.J.Roberts M.B.E.,Ex Moelfre Lifeboat.
He had a photo - but lost it.
To carry on with the family tradition Cap.W.B.Roberts (son of above) is one of Masters for the tug Anglian Earl.

I myself am trying to get more information about the full story of the Hubblestone suhk in Dieppe WW2 - my uncle an my neighbours father (The Master - Cap.W.J.Hughes) and others, of which I have a list, managed to get back to the UK before the German occupation.


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## Billy1963 (Jan 4, 2006)

Cargo ship Dotterel, 1,385grt (British & Continental SS Co.) had been sailing in the coastal convoy from London to Dublin with a general cargo. On the 7th March 1941 off Cromer the convoy was attacked by a number of German E-boats. The Dotterel was damaged by torpedo in approximate position 52' 57 57N 01' 30E. Taken in tow but drifted ashore and ran aground in position 52' 41N 01' 59E with no possibility of salvage.

Commemorated Tower Hill Memorial. Panel 36

BROUGHTON, Second Officer, LOUI DEINIOL, S.S. Dotterel (Liverpool). Merchant Navy. 7th March 1941. Age 29. King's Commendation for Brave Conduct. Husband of Breda R. Broughton, of Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada. 

CARTWRIGHT, Steward, JACK, S.S. Dotterel (Liverpool). Merchant Navy. 7th March 1941. Age 25. King's Commendation for Brave Conduct. Son of George and Annie Cartwright; husband of Jessie Morison Cartwright, of Birkdale, Southport, Lancashire.

FOLLOWS, Able Seaman, ROBERT HAROLD, S.S. Dotterel (Liverpool). Merchant Navy. 7th March 1941. Age 21. Son of Mrs. F. M. Follows, of Forest Hill, London. 

MEAGHER, Steward, DANIEL, S.S. Dotterel (Liverpool). Merchant Navy. 7th March 1941. Age 21. King's Commendation for Brave Conduct. Son of Patrick Meager, and of Bridget Meager, of Deane, Bolton, Lancashire. Awarded Bronze Medal and Laurel Leaf for brave conduct. 

PRITCHARD, Able Seaman, OWEN, S.S. Dotterel (Liverpool). Merchant Navy. 7th March 1941. Age 29. Son of David Pritchard, and of Martha Pritchard, of Amlwch Port, Anglesey.

ROBERTS, Able Seaman, THOMAS, S.S. Dotterel (Liverpool). Merchant Navy. 7th March 1941. Age 29. Son of Thomas and Fanny Roberts, of Llancilian, Anglesey; husband of Nancy S. Roberts, of Moelfre Bay, Anglesey. 

SMITH, Third Engineer Officer, JACK, S.S. Dotterel (Liverpool). Merchant Navy. 7th March 1941. Age 51. Husband of Dorothy Smith, of Didsbury, Manchester. 

Buried Ashore 

COTTER, Chief Officer, HAROLD CECIL KINGS, S.S. Dotterel. Merchant Navy. 7th March 1941. Age 40. Kings Commendation for brave conduct. Son of Alexander and Mary Ellen Cotter; husband of Pauline Cornelia Cotter, of Bromborough. Buried Eastbrookend (Dagenham) Cemetery.

Can't find any free photos on line, but Greenwich Maritime Museum has a few for sale. Details and negative numbers below.

DOTTEREL (Br) 50.3 1936 General cargo, short sea British & Continental Steamship Co Ltd
G5928 (2S) B 22 Nov. l939 Alongside berth at Southampton with damaged bow.
G5929 (2S) B 22 Nov. 1939 Alongside berth at Southampton with damaged bow. Slightly distant. The paddle steamer PORTSDOWN (l928) is berthed close by.
G5930 (2S) B 22 Nov. 1939 Very similar to G5929.
G5931 (1S) B 30 Nov. 1939 Close up of bow in dry dock at Southampton showing damage.
G5932 (1) B 30 Nov. 1939 Close up of bow showing welders removing damaged plates.
G5933 (1) B 30 Nov. 1939 In dry dock at Southampton.
G5934 (1) B 30 Nov. 1939 Similar to G5933.

Historic Photographs Section, 
National Maritime Museum, 
Greenwich, 
London, 
SE10 9NF
Tel: +44 (0) 20 8312 8600
Fax: +44 (0) 20 8317 0263
E-mail: [email protected]

Cargo ship Hubbastone, 873grt, (Stone & Rolfe Ltd) had sailed from Swansea to Dieppe and had discharged her cargo of coal when the port was attacked by German bombers on 21st May 1940. Two days later the ship was again attacked and damaged and was abandoned in a sinking condition. When the port finally fell into German hands the Hubbastone was raised and repaired and put into service as the Jurgensby. The ship was sunk in June 1943 while in the Baltic.


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## Ron Dean (Aug 11, 2010)

garethmoelfre said:


> Has anyone a photograph of the Dotterel which was sunk 1941 by a German E boat somwhere by The Wash.
> The reason I am looking for it is for the son one of those who lost his life in returning to try and recover the ships papers - when another torpedo hit the ship.
> The son himself is now retired (Cox)W.J.Roberts M.B.E.,Ex Moelfre Lifeboat.
> He had a photo - but lost it.
> ...


My wife & I sailed on the SS Dotterel from Liverpool to Amsterdam & Rotterdam as fare paying passengers (£28 each for 10 days).
In 2003 I wrote to Alan Mallet of "Mallet & Bell, Publications & Ship Pictorial Publications" asking for the ships history & where she was laid to rest. I received a fairly comprehensive reply which included Built 1934, Broken up 1962/63. No mention of Dotterel sunk in 1941 or of any ship's renaming.
Whilst on the Dotterel we were given a postcard photograph of the ship (printed in Holland) which states: -
ss DOTTEREL D.W.Tons 1900 Owners British & Continental Steamship Co. Ltd. LIVERPOOL.
I still have the photograph. Is it possible she was a renamed sister ship? I could easily get my photograph copied & send you the original if it is of interest.

Regards, Ron Dean.


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## Ron Dean (Aug 11, 2010)

*Dotterel.*

Since this site is all about nostalgia, I thought I'd enlarge a little on my previous posting.
We booked our passages on the Dotterel in 1958 through the agent Pitt & Scott, to sail from Manchester down the Ship Canal to Liverpool then to Antwerp & Ghent.
It was our intention to visit the Brussels World Fair of that year.
2 days before we were due to sail we received a telegram (delivered by a boy on a bike of course) which informed us that "due to cargo commitments" we would now be sailing from Liverpool & our ports of call would now be Amsterdam & Rotterdam.
I remember that on entering the port of Rotterdam, we jumped the queue ahead of the "Nieuw Amsterdam" (the Dutch flagship at that time) and the "Johan van Oldenbarnveldt" - an immigrant ship which was later sold to Greece and renamed the "Lakonia". The Lakonia caught fire & sank with the loss of 117 lives in the Atlantic 250 miles west of Gibraltar whilst on a Christmas Cruise in 1963.
I remember comparing the pictures blazoned on the front page of the newspaper, with one I had taken 5 years previously of the J.v.O. and subsequently reading that it was the same ship.
I also remember on our voyage, being mildly chastised for whistling on the Bridge (we later battled thro' a force 8 in the Channel).
I was more seriously taken to task for nearly emptying the fresh water tank, by leaving the tap running in an effort to keep our cabin drinks cool.
If anyone is still awake after these ramblings - Yes we did make it to the World Fair (by train from Amsterdam) on the day that Prince Philip officially opened the British exhibit which was a typical English pub - "The Fox & Hounds".
Forgot to mention why we got priority to enter the port of Rotterdam, apparently we were carrying some product of an explosive nature manufactured by I.C.I.


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## Gulpers (Sep 8, 2005)

There is a photograph of a *DOTTEREL* *here* - I don't know if she's the one you are looking for though. (?HUH)


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## Jean H (Dec 3, 2010)

Can't help with an image, but there is an interesting article in the Daily Express, Wednesday May 14, 1940. Dotterel evacuated from Amsterdam the Polish, British and French consular staff as well as civilians and press correspondents. The civilians included a chap called Sam Wadsworth who was said to be a former football international. Morley Richards was the Express's Staff Reporter in Amsterdam and he describes how 300 people crept out of Amsterdam by ferry as the German paratroopers were landing, boarded darkened coaches and then went aboard the Dotterel. Richards and many others slept on a straw mattress in the forepeak hatch. Richards said than five on the crew were youngsters on their maiden voyage. The journey could have been a disaster, but an RN ship saved them from a German aircraft attack.

Hope it is of use, unless you already know about it.


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## Tom(Tucker)Kirby (Nov 22, 2009)

Hi If you got no response to your request about the Dotterel, Go to "old ship thumb nails" with any search engine, click on old ships lists, then click on D.and scan down the list of ships, you will find your picture there, let me know how you get on. Tom.


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## UmtaliArgentinaStar (Nov 3, 2020)

Jean H said:


> Can't help with an image, but there is an interesting article in the Daily Express, Wednesday May 14, 1940. Dotterel evacuated from Amsterdam the Polish, British and French consular staff as well as civilians and press correspondents. The civilians included a chap called Sam Wadsworth who was said to be a former football international. Morley Richards was the Express's Staff Reporter in Amsterdam and he describes how 300 people crept out of Amsterdam by ferry as the German paratroopers were landing, boarded darkened coaches and then went aboard the Dotterel. Richards and many others slept on a straw mattress in the forepeak hatch. Richards said than five on the crew were youngsters on their maiden voyage. The journey could have been a disaster, but an RN ship saved them from a German aircraft attack.
> 
> Hope it is of use, unless you already know about it.


My teenage father and his parents & sister were British subjects evacuated on S.S. Dotteral with Royal Navy escort from Ymuiden, Netherlands on 13th May 1940 during the German invasion/advance. I attach a news article from a reporter that was on the same boat (and buses to Ymuiden). It isn't a photograph of the ship, but it is interesting history.


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## CH62 (Feb 14, 2021)

UmtaliArgentinaStar said:


> My teenage father and his parents & sister were British subjects evacuated on S.S. Dotteral with Royal Navy escort from Ymuiden, Netherlands on 13th May 1940 during the German invasion/advance. I attach a news article from a reporter that was on the same boat (and buses to Ymuiden). It isn't a photograph of the ship, but it is interesting history.
> View attachment 683822


I've sent you a direct message through this site. Please get in touch.


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## DiamondsfromAmsterdam1940 (Mar 7, 2021)

UmtaliArgentinaStar said:


> My teenage father and his parents & sister were British subjects evacuated on S.S. Dotteral with Royal Navy escort from Ymuiden, Netherlands on 13th May 1940 during the German invasion/advance. I attach a news article from a reporter that was on the same boat (and buses to Ymuiden)...


Thanks for this, it is very interesting. If you have other stories from your family regarding this trip, I would be most interested to hear them.

If I may, I will add some extra to _Dotterel's_ activities in those few days in May 1940. 

It was originally in Rotterdam when the Germans invaded, and managed to leave, despite the air raids, and sail to IJmuiden where it was to indeed collect refugees. 

The press story from the Express seems to relate the fear, confusion and suspicion of the time. Viz., whilst I do not doubt that (twitchy) Dutch soldiers fired shots, they would not have been at Germans. German paratroopers were dropped in The Hague, Rotterdam and towns in between, way to the south of IJmuiden. Further, reports from the Dutch army commanders on the scene in IJmuiden confirm many patrols sent out to find Germans, or investigte reports of same, but none were actually found. The Germans only entered Velsen/IJmiuiden on 15MAY40 the day after capitulation, and therefore more two days after _Dotterel's _departure in the early morning (0100 or so) of 13MAY. 

As for what _Dotterel_ helped evacuate, it also took a sizeable portion of the industrial diamond stock held by J.K. Smit & Zonen, probably the largest merchant of same in Amsterdam. They were delivered to Captain Green, master of the _Dotterel_ by Mr. Johan Smit, owner of the company. He was given typed orders by the Dutch army to report to the (British) Royal Navy senior officer in the harbour, Commander Goodenough, who was actually there to supervise demolition work. From there, he was directed to the _Dotterel_.

Mr. Johan Smit was also offered safe passage on the _Dotterel _by the Dutch authorities, given his knowledge and expertise, but declined. Unbeknownst to him, his son, plus two others, were travelling in the opposite direction at the same time in _HMS Walpole_ to collect as much as Amsterdam's industrial diamond stock as possible (see also Ely warship's secret mission at the start of the war to retrieve diamon...). They arrived at dawn on 13MAY, returning in the evening of the same day, with the remainder of J.K. Smit's stock, plus stocks from two other diamond merchants.

It seems that _Dotterel _also helped rescue some other notables, an aspect I am currently researching. _Dotterel_ was escorted out of IJmuiden by a sister ship of _Walpole_, _HMS Windsor_. The stock of industrial diamonds handed over to Capt. Green later made their way to J.K. Smit & Zonen's London office - and Mr. Johan's son - via way of the Admiralty.

Hope you find this of interest. Happy to answer any questions or indeed receive further stories.

Aye,

Darron


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## UmtaliArgentinaStar (Nov 3, 2020)

DiamondsfromAmsterdam1940 said:


> Thanks for this, it is very interesting. If you have other stories from your family regarding this trip, I would be most interested to hear them.
> 
> If I may, I will add some extra to _Dotterel's_ activities in those few days in May 1940.
> 
> ...


It would be good to support with further references to movement of axis forces, because I prefer to dismiss written first hand account (on basis of fear, confusion, suspicion etc) if there is do***ented counter evidence to this account. I suppose there could be 'fear of paratroopers' dropped behind the front line which caused the convoy to stop on several occasions to check, and 'twitchy' soldiers firing rounds, because the reporter only knew convoy halted and heard rounds fired, but on the other had is this not a possibility of a few troops parachuting behind lines? Might there have been any axis support, however limited, already hidden at key points in Netherlands - or is this less likely due to the swiftness of the attack. Was every account do***ented by allied forces? I'm just speculating to consider how easy it is to support or dismiss the reporter's account. I guess we may never know for certain, but I would not dismiss this account so easily without some counter evidence/account. I have an open mind, and there could have been misinterpretation of their cir***stances, or even mild elaboration for propaganda, although my father seemed to think the newspaper account was accurate.


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## DiamondsfromAmsterdam1940 (Mar 7, 2021)

UmtaliArgentinaStar said:


> It would be good to support with further references to movement of axis forces...


_Have sent a personal message as German troop movements are somewhat off topic for a ship nostalgia forum. However, I elaborate upon and lay out the further basis as to why it was highly unlikely that German troops were physically present between Amsterdam and IJmuiden.
Darron _


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## Roger Griffiths (Feb 10, 2006)

Hello and welcome,
Some references for you. I don't know if they will be of any use to you.

From the London Gazette 29/07/1941 the following were commended for there action when DOTTEREL was attacked.
Avilable to view at the British National Archive piece number T335/14
Harry Cecil Cotter RANK Chief Officer AWARD Commendation SHIP Dotterel.
Louis Dienion Broughton RANK Second Officer AWARD Commendation SHIP Dotterel.
Jack Cartwright RANK Chief Steward AWARD Commendation SHIP Dotterel.
Daniel Meagher RANK Mess Room Steward AWARD Commendation SHIP Dotterel. 
Raymond Luther Procter RANK Wireless Operator AWARD Commendation SHIP Dotterel.
Joseph Green RANK Master AWARD Commendation SHIP Dotterel.
You should be able to view via the London Gazette web site.

The last Logbook and Crew Agreement of DOTTEREL, official number 164306, available from the British National Archive, which is closed at the moment due to the Covid restrictions






164267; 164269; 164270; 164275; 164277; 164280; 164284; 164294; 164297; 164301; 164305;... | The National Archives


The official archive of the UK government. Our vision is to lead and transform information management, guarantee the survival of today's information for tomorrow and bring history to life for everyone.




discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk





Attached a copy of the official Survivors Report.
















regards
Roger


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## Roger Griffiths (Feb 10, 2006)

Forgot this You can download the WW2 Movment Card of DOTTEREL for free after registering.
Not much new info though.





Ship Name: Dotterel Gross Tonnage: 1385 | The National Archives


The official archive of the UK government. Our vision is to lead and transform information management, guarantee the survival of today's information for tomorrow and bring history to life for everyone.




discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk




regards
Roger


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## DiamondsfromAmsterdam1940 (Mar 7, 2021)

Roger Griffiths said:


> Forgot this You can download the WW2 Movment Card of DOTTEREL for free after registering.
> Not much new info though.
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks Roger. Much appreciated. The source for some of _Dotterel_'s activity in NL in May 1940 is a 1947 publication produced by HMSO, "British Coaster 1939-1945". Although only a page or so of many more, it makes reference to the "captain's report" which I hope means the log (?). As such, the pointer to the or a log being located at TNA Kew is much appreciated. Although I am remotely located in NL, hope that when restrictions are lifted I can get across without too much hassle.
Best,
Darron


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## UmtaliArgentinaStar (Nov 3, 2020)

DiamondsfromAmsterdam1940 said:


> _Have sent a personal message as German troop movements are somewhat off topic for a ship nostalgia forum. However, I elaborate upon and lay out the further basis as to why it was highly unlikely that German troops were physically present between Amsterdam and IJmuiden.
> Darron _


Thanks, I am not sure when I will have the time to pursue, but I expect this will be very interesting. Certainly the newspaper clipping attached to this thread mentions paratroopers prior to setting off in convoy, and also of a machine gun firing directly at them, so this is hard to hard to explain away if there was no hostile force encountered, so perhaps they met some sort of resistance (perhaps not even soldiers, or even mistaking each other for the enemy) before their journey and assumed they had been paratroopers because the front line was not that close. The rest of the newspaper account talks of stopping while on coaches on route to check the way was clear and no reference to any problems at those halts, just one reference after that to a driver taking gun and hearing shot, but no mention of hitting anything. I'll take a look at your other thread / message when I get a chance.


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## UmtaliArgentinaStar (Nov 3, 2020)

Roger Griffiths said:


> Hello and welcome,
> Some references for you. I don't know if they will be of any use to you.
> 
> From the London Gazette 29/07/1941 the following were commended for there action when DOTTEREL was attacked.
> ...


Thank you so much for this. Quite an eye-opener.


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## Richard Chetwode (3 mo ago)

DiamondsfromAmsterdam1940 said:


> Thanks for this, it is very interesting. If you have other stories from your family regarding this trip, I would be most interested to hear them.
> 
> If I may, I will add some extra to _Dotterel's_ activities in those few days in May 1940.
> 
> ...


Thanks Darren, really interesting! I am researching the evacuation of diamonds from both Amsterdam in May 1940 and thought that Johan Smit got the diamonds to the Dotterel of his own volition. When you say that he had typed orders from the Dutch army to report to the senior RN officer, it makes complete sense, since there would almost certainly have been roadblocks on the way. Are you very kindly able to help we with a source for that information (typed orders from the Dutch army), or to point me in the direction of where I might find more information. Thanking you in advance, and very interesting post!
Many thanks, Richard


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