# Did You Ever Go To The Ice



## hawkey01 (Mar 15, 2006)

We have recently moved house and I was going through lots of old papers and came across an application form for - Senior Radio Operator in South Georgia - and a form which had a list of clothing and other requirements. I was going to copy that and post it as it was quite amusing, of course I cannot now find it. It will come to light soon I am sure. Some of the items I remember were - Thigh length sea boots, Skis and associated equipment, and comments about there being one very rough hard tennis court for exercise. I never did figure why you would need thigh length sea boots and I would have thought they would have supplied the skis. Also included was a salary scale - again lost -. This was being advertised by the Crown Agents.
I know when I received the paperwork I very quickly decided that this was not for me. I have regretted that since as I am sure it would have been a very interesting experience. I seem to remember that the tour was 18 months and had various tax benefits as well.
A couple of my ex colleagues had been on the ICE and they did have a couple of odd characteristics. Did any of you ever work down on the ICE or at any of the other strange Crown Agent posts that came up back in the 60's and if so how did you enjoy the tour.

Hawkey01


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## landoburns (Aug 15, 2006)

I also got the application forms for the Antarctic Survey back in the 60's and likewise did not apply. In my case I got a better offer as freelance R/O on a liberty ship! I seem to recall the wages in the Antarctic were 500 quid p.a. and everyone was on the same money presumably to avoid any animosity during the 2 year contract. The fact that you would come back with 1000 quid tax free after the 2 years was very prominently emphasized in the job description. Many years later on a drillship I worked with George Johnson (ex-BP), who was then Port Steward/Camp Boss, and he had actually done a 2 year contract in the Antarctic. I asked him how it was down there, what was there to see, how did he get around etc. only for him to inform me that he never left the base in those 2 years. He was a very easy going guy, well he would need to be I guess! 
I also got the application forms from the Crown Agents for a similar R/O job but with many "hats" like Postmaster, running the local BC station etc. on Tristan da Cunha and I do regret not applying for that one.


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## NoMoss (Mar 14, 2007)

I remember the forms for that job but I think it was the pay scale that put me off and I was beginning to think I was too old to go off adventuring. I was always 'playing safe' and it seemed a bit too out of the ordinary for me. I lacked a sense of adventure I guess.


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## hawkey01 (Mar 15, 2006)

That is interesting that we all feel that we should have - had a go -. I realise now that although girls and booze were of paramount importance to a 21+ year old there were other important things in life. Having seen many films and read about the Ice and the likes of South Georgia, Falklands etc I would now enjoy the beauty and wildlife. However as I say at a more tender age the girls had more charm! It would probably be difficult in one respect though and that is I hate the cold - difficult when its minus 20C. Probably why I head south to Spain in the later part of the year.
I often look at what is happening on Tristan da Cunha via the web site and also other areas like the Falklands, gives you a good overview of their daily life.

Hawkey01


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## Bob Murdoch (Dec 11, 2004)

Well I did send in the papers but for the New Zealand Antarctic Research Programme in 1966. Applied for the radio officer's job, but missed out as, an unusual occurance, there were two applicants. The other guy was in fact an old mate of mine. Instead, I was offered the job of ionosphericist in the lab. As this had been a source of fascination for me at the Watt Memorial, and as I was working in the frequency management section of the N.Z. Post Office, I was happy to accept. I also did back up R.O. and back up dog man. 
I was fortunate and got around the immediate area of Ross Island quite a lot and also went to the American's Plateau Station at the Pole of Inaccessibility, landing at the South Pole going and returning. Quite a trip, by Hercules.
I enjoyed my year on the ice and have many happy memories of my time their.
Bob


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## trotterdotpom (Apr 29, 2005)

"....I never did figure why you would need thigh length sea boots"

Neville, were there any sheep on South Georgia? 

I remember sending for the bumpf on the Antarctic Survey. At that time it was a two year job but a large part of that was spent getting there and back aboard "Magga Dan" (or one of those ships). I seem to recall reading that the ship spent a bit of time in Buenos Aires for some reason or other. The R/Os were expected to work on the ship while on board. I was tempted like everyone (that's why I sent for the info) but for some reason that I can't recall, I didn't go - probably scared of the two year stint.

I sailed with a Mate (P.H.)in ANL who went down there on the ship as a 2nd Mate and got Shanghaied into staying as a Meteorological Officer. He loved it and I remember he told me, when the cruise ships started showing up, the station "hands" made a point of running around outside without shirts on, just to spoil the tourists photos.

John T.


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## hawkey01 (Mar 15, 2006)

Bob, what a wonderful title - Ionospheriscist - those that like to make ordinary jobs sound so exotic these days would love to use that one. Did you have a camera with you and if so we would love to see some of your photos.
Now John behave! think it was only the odd sealion or thousands of penguins!
Seem to remember a radio station somewhere way down south in the Indian Ocean which occasionally appeared on 500 with a Z callsign. 
I-spell was confused with Ionospheriscist.

Neville - Hawkey01


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## trotterdotpom (Apr 29, 2005)

Think Amsterdam Island had a radio station but its callsign began with "F". Chatham Islands had a "Z" callsign as it's a NZ possession - your old pal Graham Turner worked there, Neville.

John T.


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## Bob Murdoch (Dec 11, 2004)

Hi Hawkeye.
Here are a few attached. Of course the better ones are all in colour but on slides.
1. Norm White the R.O, left, me right.
2. Norm in the radio room. A good old Racal rx. 
3. The lab with my ionosonde in the corner, the big beastie with the clock facing the camera and the Bell and Howels(?) movie camera on the front.
4. The group is of the 12 true and bold (cold) a week before the relief arrived in.
5. An example of an ionogaram. Frequency across the bottom, height up (of course!).
Have lots more in B and W.
When we got back to N.Z. in October 1967, two wonderful things had happened;
1. Pubs opened to 10 pm
2. Mini skirts had arrived. 
After 12 months completely women free, my breakfast at the White Heron at ChCh airport was a real eye-opener. 
Cheers Bob


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## Gareth Jones (Jul 13, 2007)

I sat my PMG2 Practical exam with anther student named John Noel - this would have been 1964ish - I subsequently heard that John had gone to the Antarctic survey and been killed. Would anyone remember, or have any info on this ?
Thanks.


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## hawkey01 (Mar 15, 2006)

Bob,

great photos - the ones of radio equip and the like would be good in the Maritime Radio Navaids and Electonics gallery if you felt so inclined. The photo of you and the RO - who was the - In Memory stone for? - A good selection of beards.
Now I am going to show my lack of knowledge - what is an Ionogram used for? I see the height and frequency. Is it in relation to skip distances or the refraction levels of radio transmissions.

Gareth maybe this thread will come up with the info you seek.

Hawkey01


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## Bob Murdoch (Dec 11, 2004)

Hawkeye,
Remember your radio theory about the layers of ionised gasses which by returning radiowaves to earth instead of them going off out to space, enabled long distance radio comms.
Although at sea we could try 12 mc/s oops sorry MHz if 8 was not getting through, point to point services had to use a more scientific approach to plan comms. This could only be done by establishing some knowledge of how these layers worked. 
Remember, pre satelites scanning every square mm.
An ionosonde had a transmitter and receiver both with very broad tuning front ends. A signal was transmitted to a directional antenna pointing straight up. The receiver was tuned by the same mechanical tuning system to keep in step with the transmitted frequency and connected to another directional antenna pointing up. OK, we are now looking at a sort of radar. With the time taken to receive the return signal being translated into height instead of distance from the ship. This is plotted against the frequency and you have an ionogram. From the return, the density of the ionised layers could be computed and obviously, the heights. As the frequency increased, the signal started to penetrate the layer until it finally passed through, to hit the next layer if present and repeat the reflection process till finally it vanished out to space. A very simple explanation, but I hope it explains it more or less.
These ionograms were used to get an idea of the effect of the Sun on the gasses and as Scott Base, my beastie, and the South Pole Station, Christchurch in NZ and Rarotonga, were all more or less on the same longitude, we were able to provide the physicists with a useful slice of what was happening up there. Couple this with the ongoing magnetics and Earth Currents records and hopefully, they could provide a reasonably reliable method of setting frequency forecasts for radio comms. Woof, hope that is OK. a bit long winded!
In NZ I was in the frequency management section of the NZPO and we used the output of the scientists as well as the experience gained at sea to set up the primary and secondary frequencies for NZ to UK,Australia, Canada, Scott Base itself and the Pacific Islands. Amongst other work I may add.
The cross is in memory of the three now largely forgotten men who lost their lives on the Ross Island side when Shackleton was drifting in the pack ice on the Endurance. Shackleton's Forgotten Men, Lennard Bickel, tells the story very well and is in print now I believe.
Another couple of photographs.
1. Returning through the pressure ridges from a survey up Mt Erebus. The other team was ahead of us and ran into the melt pool. Rather than warn us, they got the camera out.
2. Normally, Scott Base did the first run in the autumn up to Cape Royds, where there was a summer scientific station. However the American Base wanted to make a quick start to the season and the almost brand new tractor got all of 100 yards on to the new sea ice with the result shown. No one badly injured.
3. On the way up Mt Erebus to about 3000 feet. Soft snow all the way. Very tiring on man and dogs.
4. Scott Base looking across the Ross Ice Shelf to White and Black Islands.
We did not need thigh boots. The Weddel seals were pretty slow movers usually, even when being approached by a 12 month celibate Scott Base man.
Cheers, Bob


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## hawkey01 (Mar 15, 2006)

Bob,

Thank you for the explanation, after reading it a couple of times I understand the theory and its uses. 
It is so easy to loose ones theoretical knowledge if you don't keep up with it, that is for certain. I found a couple of my exam papers from my PMG exams the other day. I have to say I was a little mystified that I ever knew the answers to the questions. Once upon a time when I worked for HMG I could do just about anything repairing and fixing radio gear. Using all kinds of equipment. Now I would not have a clue where to start.
The photos are great and most interesting. Did you ever hear what happened to the tractor - was is recovered or did it sink quietly below. 
The American team must have been pretty unhappy seeing it vanishing below the ice. 
I will have a look and see if that book is on Amazon later.

Hawkey01


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## Graham P Powell (Jun 2, 2007)

Hi Neville, John Lamb, Maclaren and Fraser White were all in the Antartic. I nearly applied for a job on Tristan. My wife would have been a teacher and I manned the radio and post office. Nothing came of it as eldest son came along.........
I was offered jobs in S.Africa and Fiji purely on the strength of having a 1st Class PMG.
regards
Graham


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## Bob Murdoch (Dec 11, 2004)

Hawkeye,
Nope, it sank to the bottom, in total about 20000 dollars in 1967. Up until then, a team from Scott Base using dogs had gone up to prove the new ice. However that year the USARP wanted to get an early start. One of the scientists got a damaged back and everyone else got a hellofa fright, understandable. It was only a few hundred yards onto the new ice from Hut Point, Scotts first base. I was very fortunate and was one of the four from Scott Base who went up with two dog teams a couple of weeks later. We, as had been usual, took a hand drill to measure the thickness of the ice every couple of miles. At one stage we put the drill down and started working it and it had only gone less than a foot when water poured up. We got out towards the shore, very quickly and very gently. We saw some strange clouds appearing on the horizon and then rapidly disappearing. When we got closer, we saw that it was open water and the clouds were from whales snorting. Again, a quick run into the shore. 
Exciting and great fun when you are young. I consider myself to be very lucky to have had the opportunity to do these trips. However, we had a great leader, Colin Clarke, now gone, who read his team members and as my job really involved a fair amount of tedious interpretation work gave me every chance to get out on any trip going. 
Pic 1 is Scotts Hut at Cape Evans, prior to our digging it out. 
Pic 3. Is a portrait of me taken on our trip to Cape Crozier in late August to do a check on the Emperor Penguin colony, which lays and hatches the egg during the winter. We hit very bad weather and could not get down to the actual ice at Crozier. However, from what we could see from the cliff tops, picture 2, the Emperor chicks had been largely lost that year as late winter storms had broken out the fresh sea ice with the chicks. The flat low white, with the black dots is the new sea ice with penguins as black dots. The more rugged, higher ice behind is the Ross Ice Shelf. Incidentally, temps were down to the minus 40 C during the night. I do not recomend holding morse scheds in a half erected tent at those temperatures. I can tell you that ten months celibate or not, the tent was the only thing getting anywhere near erect!
Would be interested in your exam papers. I saw some others from the 60's and could not underestand some of the questions never mind try to answer them.
OK hope these are of interest
cheers Bob


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## david_crosby (Oct 1, 2009)

hawkey01 said:


> Did any of you ever work down on the ICE or at any of the other strange Crown Agent posts that came up back in the 60's and if so how did you enjoy the tour.Hawkey01


I spent all of '68 and a lump of '69 at the Australian Base Mawson as a Met. Man. Best 18 months I've spent anywhere. Dog sledding on the sea-ice in mid-Winter checking Emperor Penguin rookeries, driving the Volkswagen up to Rumdoodle in the Summer for a BBQ. and 12 a hours a day job in between


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## hawkey01 (Mar 15, 2006)

Bob, 
Thanks for the photos and the stories. I will look out the old exam papers in due course and post them - see who can still answer the questions. I know there will be quite a few who can.

Afternoon Graham - yes two of those were the ones I was thinking about. I did not know that J L had been on the Ice. Amazing how many of us thought of going to the far away places but just did not have that little push necessary. As I mentioned above there is a good web site for Tristan, most enlightening.

David,
thank you for your reply. If you have photos or stories we would be pleased to see them or hear them

Neville - Hawkey01


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## Graham P Powell (Jun 2, 2007)

Hi Neville, Met Fraser this morning. He was down there for three years. JL was R/O on the
Shackleton. Maclaren was on a base which was an extinct volcano except it decided to erupt and he had to be evacutated. I have a feeling one or two others were down there as well.


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## Graham P Powell (Jun 2, 2007)

PS Neville, Tony Winterburn was R/O on a whale catcher out of South Georgia
and Jumping Jack was R/O on whale oil tanker belonging to Salvesens of Leith.
I remember the old boys talking about the Southern Harvester and working her on w/t from 8 in the evening till 8 the following morning. All with traffic. Good operators those guys..........


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## Duncan112 (Dec 28, 2006)

Bob Murdoch said:


> Hawkeye,
> 
> The cross is in memory of the three now largely forgotten men who lost their lives on the Ross Island side when Shackleton was drifting in the pack ice on the Endurance. Shackleton's Forgotten Men, Lennard Bickel, tells the story very well and is in print now I believe.


The book is absolutely fascinating - my copy came from Amazon.

Leonard Hussey, the Meterologist on the expedition presented a lantern slide lecture on it - this lecture has been handed down and is still presented in its original format by a Mr Geoff Selley - if you get the chance to see it GO!! THere is also the opportunity to view and handle a couple of the pannikins that accompanied Shackleton on his epic boat voyage to South Georgia. A quick Google showed the lecture on tour in NZ earlier this year but no UK dates - perhaps the Scott Polar Research Institute might have details.

Duncan


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## hawkey01 (Mar 15, 2006)

Graham,

Glad to hear Fraser is up and about. Last I heard was he was in the home on Berrow Road.
Also I had forgotten about our old sea dogs TW and JT. I can still see JT working traffic on a night shift on his console - he loved it. 
The smell on those vessels must have been just terrible.
You have gazumped me with the QRY!

Neville


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## Cisco (Jan 29, 2007)

hawkey01 said:


> Seem to remember a radio station somewhere way down south in the Indian Ocean which occasionally appeared on 500 with a Z callsign.
> 
> Neville - Hawkey01


That may have been Marion Island...
just googled this up...
'Marion is home to a weather and research station. It is manned year-round, with crews staying for a year. The annual supply ship comes around April and stays for a few weeks to take care of resupply and base refurbishment.

The island is administered by the Department of Environmental Affairs and Tourism, the agency responsible for weather services in South Africa.'


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## Andy (Jan 25, 2004)

Cisco said:


> That may have been Marion Island...
> just googled this up...
> 'Marion is home to a weather and research station. It is manned year-round, with crews staying for a year. The annual supply ship comes around April and stays for a few weeks to take care of resupply and base refurbishment.
> 
> The island is administered by the Department of Environmental Affairs and Tourism, the agency responsible for weather services in South Africa.'


Marion Is. is very big and current news with the amateur radio fraternity... As of late April, the met/research station has a new radio/electronics technician staying for a year who will be active as ZS8M on the amateur bands. 

Marion Is. counts as a seperate entity for 'dx' chasers, and is in the top ten rarest list of entities (quasi 'countries').
I just about heard him on 18mhz last sunday.

cheers,
Andy


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## Cisco (Jan 29, 2007)

Thanks Andy, Something to listen out for although where I am just now ( in a marina in BA) has bucket loads of QRM...
Frank VK3JFH/MM


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## M. Moore (Dec 30, 2009)

I applied for and was offered a position on board the antartic exploration vessel sailing from Cape Town several years ago, I was due to leave then discovered my cabin was next to the bar, so declined. i do regret it now as it is the oneplce I have not been.


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## hawkey01 (Mar 15, 2006)

*Exam Papers*

Bob,

as promised here are a couple of PMG - 2nd Class papers I came across recently. Talking about things like valves and other exciting things. There is one question about an NPN transistor - really modern stuff. It was about this time that the syllabus included transistors.
Why I actually kept these I have no idea probably because they the first ones and I passed them!.

Hawkey01


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## trotterdotpom (Apr 29, 2005)

Not sure if I'd pass that now Neville, for one thing my definition of "night effect" has changed.

By the way, weren't you supposed to hand those papers back after the exam?

John T.


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## Bob Murdoch (Dec 11, 2004)

Hawkeye,
Many thanks. As it is now 50 years since I took my first class in Britain, I am astounded that I can still understand the questions, more or less. (less, rather than more).However, I seem to recognise a couple of old chestnuts in there.
Thanks for posting them.
Cheers, Bob


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## geobro (Mar 21, 2008)

Hello Hawkey01.

You would have enjoyed it immensely.

I was SenrOp/Tech 1954/57. (Season/Winter/Season/Winter/Season) Plus one month each way travel.

No info whatsoever from Crown Agents on recommended equipment.

Salary scale was L350 for Junior personnel. L750 for seniors. I was on L500. During my stay I presented a case to the Falkland Islands Government to raise the Sen Op/Tech salary to same level as other seniors. My argument was accepted and the pay was raised to L750; applicable to my successor - not me!
But I was pleased nonetheless.

Highlights of my stay were annual sojourns at sea on whale-catcher for 5 -6 day periods. Exciting to say the least.


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## John Dryden (Sep 26, 2009)

Good stuff you guys,must have been an adventure to say the least!I remember seeing the adverts to sign up but they never enticed me.Have to say though I,m glad I didn,t because a beard is far too dodgy.Horses for courses I guess but give me the tropics!
JD.


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## Larry Bennett (Aug 28, 2005)

One of my work contacts is the Head of Comms and Port Control at Tristan Radio/ZOE - recommend you take a look at www.tristandc.com which has plenty of interesting info.

I knew Fraser and Nick McLaren had spells in the Antarctic but never knew about the others.....fascinating stuff.


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## hawkey01 (Mar 15, 2006)

Thanks everyone for your input.

JT - you are probably right. I didn't though - cannot remember how. Do you think they could be worth something on Ebay!

Bob, I looked but it all sort of went over my head or more to the point I thought - it is not necessary to remember and hurt the brain cell-s trying. To think of all those wonderful equations for working out Induction - capacitance etc. I must have written them out a million times to learn them all.

Larry, thanks for the link I really should have done that earlier but I forgot. I always like the - Annual Rat catching festival.

Hoping David may come up with some info of his time on the Ice and maybe some odd photos.

Neville - Hawkey01


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## hawkey01 (Mar 15, 2006)

Found the paperwork that came with the Crown Agent job for South Georgia.
See attached. 
Even had to take your own ski's. Also the sea boots are on the list, so I was not dreaming. 

Hawkey01


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## keithsparks (Sep 1, 2009)

i remember going to tristan du chuna in the 70s on the tug statesman for a salvage job called the alkis some of us were invited ashore for a couple of hours and i mrt the r/o come postmaqster come dj at the local radio station i forget the guys name now but we were an odd bunch on the statesman but the people wholived on tristan were a really odd crowd i think the main name was Glass we were glad when the boat took us back to the tug i think they wanted to keep us as souveniers oh happy days ha ha


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## hawkey01 (Mar 15, 2006)

Keith,

Ummh! A touch of - Deliverance - this will of course make sense if you have seen the film about the deep heart of USA. Aside from that I don't know if you saw that there is a very interesting web site for Tristan. I pop in occasionally to have a read and see what is going on there. I think things have progressed a fair amount since the 70's.

Hawkey01


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