# Venture tug, Exeter, 1940s.



## Franek Grabowski (Aug 21, 2016)

Gents
I came across a mention of Venture tug based at Exeter in the late 1940s. I cannot find more about the ship, though. Can anyone help?
TIA


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## eddyw (Nov 6, 2007)

There was a wooden hulled steam tug "Venture" built 1909, 42grt, dimensions 62'x14.5' Official Number 124620 and registered at Exeter in 1925. She was still in existence in 1940 and owned by John N Philip of Torquay. Listed as having been built at Dartmouth, so very possibly by Philip and Son of Sandquay.


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## Franek Grabowski (Aug 21, 2016)

Many thanks! That must be the ship. It was still working in 1948, when arrested by French customs. I do not know, what hadhappened to it later. Do you know, where to find such information or ownership at the time? She may have been sold in 1947/48 to a new owner.


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## eddyw (Nov 6, 2007)

If still British registered she would be listed in the annual Mercantile Navy List which gives name and address of owners/managers. Nothing on-line past 1940. The National Maritime Museum and the British Library have almost complete sets but if you can't visit yourself you would need to meet researchers' charges.


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## Roger Griffiths (Feb 10, 2006)

Hello Franek,
If she was built by Philip and Son Ltd., and I think she probably was. This publication may give the answers you seek.
https://www.abebooks.co.uk/servlet/...&n=100121501&pt=book&cm_sp=pan-_-srp-_-ptbook
I can only find her last Logbook in 1946, so I reckon your reasoning that she left the British Register in 1947/48 could be the correct assumption.
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C11079942

regards
Roger.


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## Franek Grabowski (Aug 21, 2016)

Thank you gents!
Regarding log books, is it possible that for some reason a later log book or log books were lost and not added to the archive? Do I understand correctly the Mercantile Navy List shall provide a definite answer to my querry?
All I know is, that the ship was seized in mid-1948, and the crew spend a few months in French prison, but I do not know if there was any trial. The ship was reputedly sold in instalments, but as the information comes from an account, which often is not very accurate, and I am trying to verify it. The new management would be no earlier than late 1947, but I rather lean towards spring of 1948. Apparently the old owner wanted to rid off the ship, perhaps that would explain lack of logs?


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## Roger Griffiths (Feb 10, 2006)

Hello Franek,
When a vessel is deleted from the British Register, her registration papers are lodged in the BT110 series at the British National Archives. In this case they seem to have been lost or destroyed.
The British archive holds all surviving logbooks of British registered ships from 1939-1950.
It could well be that the ones for 1947/48 have been lost or destroyed,
or the vessel may have been laid up awaiting disposal.
The Mercantile Navy List, like most other similar publications, Lloyd's Register etc. is only printed yearly so cannot be relied upon to give a totally accurate picture.
It may pay you to contact Devon Record office and ask them to look at the following reference's
3289 S add 2/7 Annual account of vessels registered at Port of Exeter 1869 -1981

6274-2 Exeter shipping registers: ships' papers 1901 - 1994

6274 Shipping registers rel. to Exeter, Brixham, Dartmouth, Salcombe and Teignmouth 1902 - 1989

http://humanities.exeter.ac.uk/includes/centres/cmhs/ELMAP/location.php?loc_id=83

regards
Roger


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## Roger Griffiths (Feb 10, 2006)

Did a little more digging on this one. Asked the question on a couple of other forums.
This was the reply from David Asprey among others. 

"This VENTURE (ON 124620) was the third of three small tugs of that name built by Philip & Son Ltd 1902-1909, registered in the names of members of the Philip family and used as yard tugs until sold. The first two went to Spain and Argentina, but this third (Yd 367) stayed with the family off-and-on for many years (a fourth VENTURE was purchased second-hand, and was Dutch-built):

1909 completed for London shipbroker Joseph Constant
3/3/1910 registered at Dartmouth to George Nowell Philip and his three married sisters (Alice Sautter, Laura Arscott and Sarah Williams)
9/1915 sold to Joseph Crosfield & Sons Ltd, Warrington, though registration not moved to Liverpool until 1920.
4/1924 repurchased by G N Philip
10/1924 sold to the City of Exeter, and registered there 1/1925
7/1928 repurchased by G N Philip
1934 on his death, transferred to his younger brother John Nowell Philip (who was, though, by then not active in the running of the company - so may have been used more as a family yacht).
1948 sold to Douglas Barton Perry, an engineer of East Molesey, Surrey.
Then the trail goes cold - no further transactions were recorded in the Exeter register book and the registration expired in the 1980s."

Many thanks.

regards
Roger


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## Franek Grabowski (Aug 21, 2016)

Many thanks! Just got back to see that nice surprise!
I have rechecked, and Perry was one of the men arrested on board of Venture. He is listed as a part owner only. Do you know, where I can narrow down the date of the transaction, as well as any possible shareholders? Does the fact, the registration was kept until 1980s mean the ship was extant at the time? Perry passed away in 2002, so I cannot ask him anymore.
Once again, many thanks!
Franek


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## davidships (Nov 3, 2007)

Hi - David Asprey here
Some press cuttings on the detention and freeing of the alleged smugglers.

Just to add a couple of details for Franek:
Douglas Barton Perry purchased VENTURE by bill of sale dated 23 April 1948. He was initially the sole owner - if there were other joint-owners, they were not notified to the customs house at Exeter (perhaps they did want any contact with customs officers!). The Registrar-General of Ships' copies of the registration papers are in TNA Kew, at ref BT 340/248, but as I said before, there is no later information there and the registration was closed automatically in the 1980s. The tug is most unlikely still to have been existing in the UK by then.

But it might well be worth looking at the local papers in Exeter mentioned by Roger (6274-2 Exeter shipping registers: ships' papers 1901 - 1994) as sometimes there are additional notes made locally that were not forwarded to London.

Certainly the newspaper reports (see attached) imply that VENTURE was being returned to her owner. I would be interested to hear more of the suggestion that this was "by instalments".

It is possible that there is surviving diplomatic correspondence about the Dieppe events in the Foreign Office records, though whether they would be yet public I do not know.

There is no additional info in the Philip & Sons book, though there is a small photograph taken in 1928 in dry dock.

David


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## Roger Griffiths (Feb 10, 2006)

Many thanks David for the further information, including the newspaper articles. I am not a conspiracy theorist but it seems to me that some kind of "scam" may have been taking place!
Franek.
This piece from the British Archives may shed some light.

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C1788216

Of course it may concern a different ship with the same name but I suspect it is the ship we seek.
See if you can order the do***ents. If the cost is ludicrously expensive, let me know and I will atempt to follow it up next time I visit Kew.

regards
Roger


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## davidships (Nov 3, 2007)

Undoubtedly that file will be interesting (and hopefully will at least indicate more clearly the conditions of release of VENTURE). It's on my Kew list also, though no early visit scheduled.


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## Franek Grabowski (Aug 21, 2016)

A big thank you, gents!
I am not sure when I will be able to get the file, I plan a trip to TNA, when I will have a complete list of files to be checked, but I do not think it will be any earlier than this Autumn. I am still awaiting for the decision to declassify some Metropolitan Police files concerning the general case.
The ship was acquired by a large European smuggling gang, and reputedly it had to carry fruits and vegetables from France to the UK. I am not sure if this part of the story is true, however. I suspect, that the latter was used for another smuggling pattern.
Perry, an ex-RAF seems to fit perfectly, as there were many of the airmen involved in the gang.
Reputedly the ship was seized during its sixth cruise. The information on instalements comes from a book written by one of the men involved. He often mixed facts, no doubt to cover people involved, but plenty of his stories can be positively verified.


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## TOM RAP (Dec 5, 2018)

Hi there

I have recently begun researching my family history and came across this thread. I believe my grandfather - called Douglas Barton Perry - is one and the same as the Douglas Perry you are discussing here. I would love to find out more about the Venture and am particularly interested to find out about the book Franek mentioned. What is the title?

I know a bit about my grandfathers life around this time - where he and his family were living etc. - the timings and his movements all correlate with the story. If you have any specific questions please do ask as I might be able to help.

Tom


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## Franek Grabowski (Aug 21, 2016)

Hello
I would need to check, there was plenty of information in media of the period about the affair. I still have not checked the file on Venture, nonetheless the basic story is more less clear. I wonder if you have anything more in your family archive.
As to the book mentioned, it is long time out of print and reaches ridiculous prices, but it you like I can send you the relevant piece. If so, please give me your email.
Franek


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## TOM RAP (Dec 5, 2018)

Hi Franek

You can reach me at [email protected]. If you could send me info about the book that would be very much appreciated. If I can get a copy it would make my mother very happy indeed!

My grandfather was a larger than life character but that period of his life is a little murky. It was a tricky time after the war and a lot of service men had to find "creative" ways to get by. I have heard - that among other activities - they brought jewels from Europe to the UK for wealthy individuals to stop them from falling in to the wrong hands. This may go some way to explain the source of their bail money?

In the 50-70s Douglas went on to become a successful engineer and raise a family but he never lost his sense of adventure. He loved sports cars and living life to the full!


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