# Grace Harwar



## pierhead jumper

I would appreciate if anyone knew who the Grace Harwar was named for,also the first owner.She was the last registered full rigged ship on the British register I beleive.Alan Villiers sailed in her when she was owne d by Erricson.There was a film made aboard her rounding the Horn.Ancient history but I'm Interested.Thank you in anticipation.P.J.


----------



## non descript

PJ, from what I see she was a worrying ship and the following account would have hardly made one rush to sign on:

_ “The Grace Harwar developed a reputation as a man-killer. In 1907, under the command of Captain C.S. Hudson, the ship was sailing from Australia to Tocopilla, Chile. Captain Hudson's young wife was on board. Already suffering from tuberculosis, she died off of the coast of Chile. The ship returned empty to Australia with Mrs. Hudson's body in the ballast. Supposedly, Mrs. Hudson put a curse on the ship before dying-- that it would kill one man on every voyage.”_


----------



## benjidog

Brief history can be found here: http://www.bruzelius.info/Nautica/Ships/Merchant/Sail/G/Grace_Harwar(1889).html

Photograph here: http://sailing-ships.oktett.net/11.html

and another on deck here: http://www.nmm.ac.uk/upload//pdf/Publications-catalogue-08.pdf

Can't help with the original name though.


----------



## treeve

This is the first time that I have come across the name of Harwar since researching the almshouses in London built by Samuel Harwar; he was born 1670 died 1704. Since it is possible that there may be a family connection, you can read the story at 
http://freepages.family.rootsweb.com/~treevecwll/samhdc.htm
Best Wishes, Raymond


----------



## stein

She was built by William Hamilton & Co Port Glasgow in 1889 for William Montgomery & Co of London. Other ships owned by Montgomery were the Ladye Doris and the Eva Montgomery, which may indicate that a lady named Grace Harwar existed. (He olso owned the Fitzjames and the beautiful skysail-yarder Lynton.) 
How come Brian can't find any pictures on this site :sweat:? Regards, Stein


----------



## non descript

Stein, I take your point and starting with this one *here* I can see that you have kindly added at least eight pictures of her - thank you (Thumb)


----------



## pierhead jumper

Thank you,Gentlemen.for your replies.On checking the Harwar papers I find no mention of a Grace nor a Montgomery.Further investigation would show that she was indeed an ill-fated vessel,being involved in several collisions and accidents,even on one occasion sailing from Iquique to falmouth minus bowsprit, and a shipmate of Villiers ,Ronald Walker,loosing his life aboard her. Meanwhile Grace remains a ghost. p.j.


----------



## McCloggie

I hve always thought that the _Grace Harwer_ ran aground on the South Coast of the UK? I had a book by Robin Knox-Jhonstone of the last days of sail and am certain she was shown in the photos there on the beach. (Book was leant to someone and never returned!).

As for being the last full rigged ship under the Finnish Flag I again question this. What about_ Moshulu_ that Eric Nemby sailed in in 1938/39? Was she not Finnish Flag?

McC


----------



## stein

Hi McCloggie. A full-rigged ship has square sails on all the masts, as Moshulu had not - she was a 4-m barque - had only fore and aft sails on the last mast. 
The book by Robin Knox-Johnson you refer to must be "The Twilight of Sail" (London 1978); the only photo of her there is taken well out at sea. Regards, Stein.


----------



## McCloggie

Yes Stein you are of course correct - Newby states clearly that Moshulu was a 4-M Barque. My mistake.

I know I can not go and look this up myself but I was convinced that Grace Hawar ran aground somewhwere in/on the UK.

The book again is correct - as I do not have it anymore I can not argue but I am shure there were photos there of one of the last sailors on the rocks off the UK.

Have just remembered! Photos were - I think - of Hezegon Cecile. Would that be right?

McC


----------



## treeve

Cornishman Henry Scott Tuke (1858-1929), of the Newlyn School painted a portrait of Grace Harwar, sold to Mrs. Charlotte Hayward, (nee Genn). 
The 5 other portraits by Tuke held by the Genn family (of Falmouth) were of members of that family. It would appear that she was connected in some way with that family.
Henry Scott Tuke, having studied at the Slade and Paris, returned to his native Falmouth in 1885 (though born in York), painting rocky coast, fishermen and ships. So that gives a rough date for the portrait, as he moved his interest to other subjects in 1895. The Tuke family had moved to Falmouth in 1860. Henry Scott Tuke had moved to Budock by 1891.


----------



## treeve

Only Grace Harwar to be found ....
Grace Margaret Amelia Harwar born 1858 in St Pancras;
Father Henry Harwar of Marylebone; Mother Margaret Woollard

The fact that Henry Tuke, Charlotte Genn and Grace Harwar were born within a few months of each other, and two of them were in Falmouth from 1860, leads me to wonder if they attended the same school and became friends; the fact of Grace Harwar and her parents being unfound in UK census records, could mean that they moved to perhaps Canada, as that was from whence the Genn family had come. It could well be that Grace Harwar had come to Falmouth, who knows? Otherwise, why would the Genn family have wanted this portrait, and why particularly would Charlotte Hayward (nee Genn) have particularly bought the portrait?


----------



## pierhead jumper

Treeve,I would think that you have come up with a very logical explaination here.Very interesting.I think you have laid the ghost.Many thanks for your interest.P.J.


----------



## treeve

You are very welcome ... I also have discovered that William Genn (Charlotte's father) had legal and social connections in Budock, and so would have been able to retain his connection with Henry Tuke. Best Wishes, Raymond


----------



## benjidog

Great contribution Raymond!


----------



## glen238

*glen238*

Have a particular interest in the Grace Hawar sailing ship whilst she was under Swedish ownership.
My step-father sailed from Sydney Australia to Falmouth England back around 1932 with Alan Villiers as signed on Deck crew or 'jungman' His name was Cedric Clemington Constance originally from Auckland New Zealand.
Once in England, Cedric settled down and raised a family. He remained friends with Alan Villiers and also an American friend who sailed with them and who lived in South Carolina.
I hold a letter received from Alan Villiers to Cedric many years later when Captain Villiers sailed the rebuilt 'Mayflower' from Plymouth Devon to Plymouth Conneticut.
I also hold many b&w photographs of his trip from Australia. Cedric later became a member of the Cape Horner Association and was a member of the Little Ships Club in London. I earlier years he was one of several New Zealanders who were first to sail in open sailing vessels in the newly founded Tasman Sea race.
From
glen238 England


----------



## Hugh Ferguson

This thumbnail is of the Grace Harwar becalmed in position 0.48'N:24.03'W.
The photograph was taken from the m.v. Port Gisborne at 11.35 on the 27th May 1934 whilst on-route Lyttelton/London.


----------



## stein

glen238


> Have a particular interest in the Grace Hawar sailing ship whilst she was under Swedish ownership.


You mean Finnish?


----------



## Montgomery Harwar

Right - sorry to revive a long dead thread but I have important information.

I am a descendant of the Grace Amelia Harwar born 1858 in St Pancras mentioned by trevee. Her husband was William Montgomery (1851 -1905) of William Montgomery & Co of London for whom the ship was built. He was a merchant of South American goods and presumably had the ship named after his wife.

Stein says he also owned a boat named Eva Montgomery. This is fascinating to me because William and Grace's daughter (my great grandmother) was named Eva Montgomery. Anyone who knows anything about that boat or the portraits mentioned by trevee, PLEASE get in touch with me!

FYI: Eva married a ship captain - Captain Robert Alven Richards - who was 
Lieutenant on hms Albemarle in 1911.


----------



## stein

Grace A. Montgomery is named as owner or part owner in 1900.

http://www.clydeships.co.uk/view.php?ref=8546

http://www.clydesite.co.uk/clydebuilt/missing-

ships/EVA_MONTGOMERY_157.html

http://digitalcollections.lib.washington.edu/cdm/ref/collection/hester/id/29

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id...pVQBa#v=onepage&q=eva montgomery ship&f=false

http://www.nps.gov/safr/learn/historyculture/maritimewomenhistory.htm

The ship had a sister, the Ladye Doris, also registered with Grace A. M. Montgomery as owner. http://www.clydeships.co.uk/view.php?ref=8546 And was eventually sold to the same shipowners who bought the Eva Montgomery. Both ships sold at the same time.

There was a woman who wrote a book about her time on that ship (Ladye Doris), "I saw a ship a sailing" by Mary Hay http://www.abebooks.co.uk/servlet/SearchResults?kn=saw-ship-sailing-mary-hay&sts=t 

This ship also had an enthusiastic photographer as mate for a while, and quite a number of his photographs of daily life onboard were published in a book by A. A. Hurst. "The medley of Mast and Sail 2" http://www.abebooks.co.uk/servlet/SearchResults?an=hurst&sts=t&tn="The+medley+of+Mast+and+Sail+2"


----------



## Montgomery Harwar

Thanks very much Stein! what fantastic images. I'm glad to have discovered al this.

You don't by chance know where i might find out more about william montgomery co of london which the vessels were built for? I know they were intended to carry goods from south america but that's it


----------



## stein

The first do***ent linked to here is an interesting one, a long “Instruction to Masters,” signed with company name: W. Montgomery & Co.
http://fearon.me.uk/drupal/?q=node/34
http://fearon.me.uk/drupal/?q=node/32
Pictures of Fitzjames, Ladye Doris, Eva Montgomery and Lynton.
http://collections.slsa.sa.gov.au/collection/A.D.+Edwardes+Collection/page:6
Company flag: 
http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/gb~hfmo.html#montgomery


----------



## Montgomery Harwar

tusen takk!


----------



## stein

"Bare hyggelig"( A pleasure) as Mr. Montgomery seems to have had an eye for beautiful ships, and to have been quite advanced in the treatment of his crews.

Picture 1 is from Sea Breezes vol 21 1956. Where Gerald N. Jones describes a voyage onboard the Ladye Doris. I hope some of it can be read. Picture 2, from the Ladye Doris, is from "The Medley of Mast and Sail 2" by A. A. Hurst. Picture 3, also from the Ladye, and the enlargement of this, is from "I saw a ship a'sailing" by Mary Hay. The caption is slightly wrong, it should have been officers and apprentices. (The book was published by the National Maritime Museum and they may possess the original photograph.) Picture 4 is from "Pacific Square-riggers" by Jim Gibbs.

That late one could not be very choosey as regards cargo to be carried in sail, I believe the main trade for nearly every sailer was coal out and nitrate and guano home from South America, though wheat or wood home from the Americas was a possibility. But according to what I read of the Lynton, she was on a regular trade between the East coast of the USA and India in her first years for Montgomery. Carrying what I don't know.


----------



## stein

Two more of Wilhelm Hesters' photographs, both from the book "A Pacific Legacy" by Wayne Bonnett. The first shows the cabin of Captain Edward Gates in the ship Lynton in 1904, the second Captain and Mrs Harrison of the Ship Ladye Doris in their salon in 1905.


----------



## DURANGO

stein said:


> The first do***ent linked to here is an interesting one, a long “Instruction to Masters,” signed with company name: W. Montgomery & Co.
> http://fearon.me.uk/drupal/?q=node/34
> http://fearon.me.uk/drupal/?q=node/32
> Pictures of Fitzjames, Ladye Doris, Eva Montgomery and Lynton.
> http://collections.slsa.sa.gov.au/collection/A.D.+Edwardes+Collection/page:6
> Company flag:
> http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/gb~hfmo.html#montgomery


Great set of photos Stein many thanks for putting them up regards Durango


----------



## Montgomery Harwar

Amazing! Any idea when the photo of WM onboard Ladye Doris was taken? I have contacted the museum about the photograph too.


----------



## stein

Apprentice Hay, sitting below Mr. Montgomery, was onboard from 1904 to 1907 (According to A. A. Hurst). If it is the right Mr. Montgomery, owner, and as you say he died in 1905, then the photograph must have been taken in his last year of living.


----------



## stein

DURANGO said:


> Great set of photos Stein many thanks for putting them up regards Durango


Thanks. One really ought to see those Hester photographs printed in some size, as they were amazingly detailed. He must have used very large plates, and he obviously was very fond of getting in a lot of details. Like every water bubble on an oiled teak railing after some rain. He would sometimes make photographs just after a thin layer of snow had fallen, and so having every line stand out in sharp black/white contrast.


----------



## Montgomery Harwar

stein said:


> Apprentice Hay, sitting below Mr. Montgomery, was onboard from 1904 to 1907 (According to A. A. Hurst). If it is the right Mr. Montgomery, owner, and as you say he died in 1905, then the photograph must have been taken in his last year of living.


Yes, I think he was buried 10 April 1905 in St Marylebone Cemetery, Finchley.

There are two men wearing bowler hats in the photo. How can you tell the one on the left is Mr. Montgomery?


----------



## stein

Good question. I now take Mr.Montgomery to be the thinner and younger of the two bowler hat wearer. The picture is reproduced in both Mary Hay's book and that of Alex Hurst, and several of the persons depicted are in other photographs as well. But I will quote Hurst's caption: "Captain Frazer, marine superintendent, standing second on the left next to Captain Wood who is next to Mr. Montgomery, the owner. The second mate Mr. Shippen, is third from the left, sitting, on the left of the apprentice Hay who took these pictures. Mr. Wells, the Mate is holding the dog, and on his left is Mr. Hamilton, the Third Mate.

I am most sorry, I probably watched the picture in Hay's book first, where no one is identified beyond "owner and officers," and decided spontaneously on the older man.


----------



## Montgomery Harwar

Ah, i thought the skinny man bore more a resemblance to Montgomery's son Joseph, who was also an ectomorph.

Thanks for clearing that up stein


----------



## Montgomery Harwar

FYI - the Ladye Doris was named after William's other daughter Doris Montgomery (Born in Hornsey, London about 1891). The book you mentioned says the lady on the figure head was supposed to be Doris which is odd because Doris was only 10 years old at the time the ship was built...


----------



## Montgomery Harwar

pierhead jumper said:


> I would appreciate if anyone knew who the Grace Harwar was named for,also the first owner.She was the last registered full rigged ship on the British register I beleive.Alan Villiers sailed in her when she was owne d by Erricson.There was a film made aboard her rounding the Horn.Ancient history but I'm Interested.Thank you in anticipation.P.J.


I have compiled a lot of the information from this thread on this blog post for anyone interested and have answered your original question. I would like to see the original film too.


You can contact me through this site if you have any info about the film


----------



## Hugh Ferguson

I found this photo in my Port Line archives. It is the Grace Harwar taken from the Port Gisborne on the 27th May 1934. She is becalmed in position 0.48N. 24.03W.
She was on passage Melbourne to Falmouth.


----------



## stein

The film is here. Click on Windjammer Roll 1. 1930. And go on with the subsequent numbers: http://www.britishpathe.com/video/windjammer-roll-1/query/windjammer

The subsequent rolls should be here: http://www.britishpathe.com/search/query/windjammer


----------



## Montgomery Harwar

Thanks. Do i have to pay to see the film with sound or was it always silent?


----------



## stein

Montgomery Harwar said:


> Thanks. Do i have to pay to see the film with sound or was it always silent?


I don't know, but sound or no sound, paying £60 for every little snippet of that movie as a low resolution download, and for which you will have to register as a member, just cannot be worth it. Go for a picture book of that voyage instead. I believe that “By Way of Cape Horn” is a collection of pictures taken aboard Grace Harwar, but I cannot find my copy at the moment. Anyway, for those interested, here are a few photographs by Villiers of the Grace Harwar that I have posted. http://www.shipsnostalgia.com/gallery/search.php?searchid=3770873


----------



## James_C

There's also a number of pictures of GRACE HARWAR, PARMA and a couple of other ships in the Villiers picture book "The Last of the Wind Ships".


----------



## Noel Kreegher

*Ladye Doris*



Montgomery Harwar said:


> Amazing! Any idea when the photo of WM onboard Ladye Doris was taken? I have contacted the museum about the photograph too.


Hello I have other photos taken on board the Ladye Doris in 1909, does anyone have a crew list for this voyage to Chile, I am hoping to identify people in the photos as I am looking for mention of Selwyn Athol CHATFIELD (also known as chattie) he would have been an apprentice on this voyage.
Thank you for your help
Noel
Auckland New Zealand


----------



## Montgomery Harwar

Noel Kreegher said:


> Hello I have other photos taken on board the Ladye Doris in 1909, does anyone have a crew list for this voyage to Chile, I am hoping to identify people in the photos as I am looking for mention of Selwyn Athol CHATFIELD (also known as chattie) he would have been an apprentice on this voyage.
> Thank you for your help
> Noel
> Auckland New Zealand


I only know about crew mentioned in Hay's book and her husband was onboard from 1904 to 1907. 

Mr. William Montgomery died sometime before 1911, but his brother Archie may have lived longer and continued the company...

If you post some of the photos here, then someone could perhaps identify the people in them?


----------



## Andy Ribbens

This is an original photo of the Grace Hawar taken being manoeuvred on the Thames. It is in a photo album that my grandad bought in the early 70s. The only caption is Grace Hawar, broken 1935. I believe the photographer must have worked on the London docks.


----------



## Ben Nicholson

*Grace Harwar: Sailor's log.*

My Uncle Ronald Walker was killed on the Grace Harwar. He was making the film with Alan Villiers. We have Ronald's blanket, his pencil-written log, his sister's memories.


----------



## Ben Nicholson

*Grace Harwar: Sailor's log.*

My Uncle Ronald Walker was killed on the Grace Harwar. He was making the film with Alan Villiers. We have Ronald's blanket, his pencil-written log, and his sister's memories.


----------

