# UK to Burma ships - late 1800's early 1900's



## andygibb

Please be patient when reading this as I have to set the background before I ask the question!

My great grandfather, James Gibb was married to Jane Waddell in Rangoon in 1880 ( I have copies of their marraige record) and had four daughters, two of whom were born in Rangoon ( Isabella Gibb in 1881 and Margaret Gibb in 1884), two of his other daughters were born in Polmont, Scotland (Helen in 1882 and Mary in 1886). I know Isabella and Margaret came back to the UK as I have records for their later life.

At some point after Mary's birth the couple split James and Jane having returned to Scotland.

He then met a Jane Younger, and went back to Burma, having my grandad, also James, born there on 27th September 1901. My great grand mother, Jane Younger (known as Gibb but was never married to him as he had never divorced the other Jane!) and my grandad returned to Scotland sometime between 1901 and 1913 but I cant' narrow that down.

My great grandfather, James Gibb died and was buried in Rangoon ( I have copies of his death/burial record), Burma on 8th June 1912.

HERE IS MY PROBLEM: I can find no record of any of them returning to the UK, or indeed any record of any of them going to Burma.

There are many ship journeys that must have been involved in this story and I find it strange that I can not locate ONE ships log for any of them, even those carried out after 1890.

I have posted a query on this site once before and many of you were very helpful, so does anyone know if ships logs for this area exist? What ships took the route? or if not could anyone suggest where I write, or enquire to see if i can get this information?

This whole story has developed from research online about the family, as my own close family never knew that a) my great grandad had not married my grandads mother, or b) that he had infact been married to someone else, and had four girls to them!!!

Families.....who would have them?

All the best 

Andy


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## andygibb

A contact on another site has advised me that many Burma records were "lost" during WW2...anyone else had this problem? 
Andy


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## alastairrussell

Andy

I sailed with Paddy Henderson's on their Rangoon service from Glasgow for a year in 1962. The shipping company was called the British Burmese Steam Navigation Co Ltd and they had passenger ships running a service from Glasgow to Birkenhead to Rangoon way back in the 1800's. P Henderson’s also owned the mighty Irrawaddy Flotilla Company that ran all the paddle steamers on the Irrawaddy river.

Burma was a wee bit of a Scottish colony from its start up with all the main Burma trading companies being registered in Glasgow. I am thinking your James Gibbs would have probably been born in Scotland and James would have been employed in Glasgow by one of the Burma Trading companies. He would just have to have sailed there and back on one of Paddy Henderson's passenger ships. So I am thinking somewhere in Glasgow they must surely have digitalised records of all the passenger and crew lists sailing on all the ships.

Burma was a very wealthy and wonderful country with heaps of teak,oil and precious stones, Rangoon was called Paris of the East ( lovely buildings). The Burmese people are lovely friendly Buddhists and I really liked them and got on well with them, they will always be my favourite crew . 

It really upsets me to see what happened to Burma starting in the early1960's . I was ashore in Rangoon the night the Burmese army attacked the police HQ!! Anyway lets keep our fingers crossed that its now on the mend as I would love to go back to Rangoon for a look see say maybe next year.

The fact that James went back to Rangoon for a second time and did not come back suggests to me he really liked the place too. Have you tried the Scottish census records (they can be sighted online) to find out what occupation he was in when working in Scotland. He would have to be employed by one of the Glasgow Trading companies , P Hendersons, Burma Oil and Denny’s of Dumbarton who built all the paddle steamers that traded up and down the rivers. 

Hope this helps

Alastair


Ps Find out were all Company records are for P Hendersons, they might be in one of the maritime museums


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## andygibb

Alistair,

This is fantastic information and I thank you for taking the time to write.

James Gibb snr was an engineer in Burma, and yes was born in Scotland. His Burma marraige record shows he was born in 1848 and his Burma death record of 1912 states he was 62, suggesting 1850 as a birth date. 
Unfortunatly the number of James Gibb born in Scotland during these years (even Glasgow only) coupled by both the marriage record and the death record not stating both parents names ( wedding states a father of William Gibb) it is near impossible to determine which one is him, so it is a "work in progress".

I will contact Scottish museums, collections to see if I can find these Burma ship records, which was something I did not think of as I assumed they would all be online.

So thank you once again

Best Wishes

Andy Gibb


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## alastairrussell

Andy

I was thinking the only other UK shipping company that carried passengers to Rangoon way back was Bibby Line who are still going. They ran a service from Birkenhead to Burma and in the end in the early 1960's , we ran together doing a fortnightly service from Birkenhead.

In Australia all the passenger lists have been digitilised. Maybe Glasgow is in the same boat, you could make a list of the P Henderson passenger liners that were operating in the years you are interested in (google shipslist). Then have a looksee under the ships name at its passenger list names for that year say sailing from Glasgow. 

regards

Alastair


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## alastairrussell

Andy


*From the National Archives in KEW
*

Looking for records of a passenger



The majority of inward passenger lists from 1878 to 1960 and outward passenger lists from 1890 to 1960 have survived (see below). There are very few records in The National Archives of passengers before 1878. 


What do I need to know before I start?

Try to find out:
•the name and year of birth of the passenger
•the name of the ship they travelled on
•the ports of departure and/or arrival



What records can I see online?

Incoming passenger lists (1878-1960)

Search and download lists of passengers arriving in the UK from ports outside Europe and the Mediterranean between 1878 and 1960 (BT 26) on the Ancestry.co.uk (£) website. 


Outgoing passenger lists (1890-1960)

Search and download (£) lists of passengers leaving from UK and Irish ports and travelling to places such as America, Canada, India, New Zealand and Australia between 1890 and 1960 (BT 27) on the findmypast.co.uk website. 



Certificates of alien arrivals and returns and papers (1810-1869)

Search and download certificates of alien arrivals (HO 2) and returns and papers (HO 3) on ancestry.co.uk (£). The records can be searched by name of alien, date and port of arrival and country/place of origin.



Aliens' entry books (1794-1921)

Browse aliens' entry books, 1794-1921, including indexes to certificates of alien arrivals (HO 5/25-28) on ancestry.co.uk (£).



Hamburg passenger lists 1850-1934

Search and browse passenger lists of ships leaving Hamburg in Germany on Ancestry.com (£). Although most passengers travelled beyond Europe, a significant number sailed to the UK. The records are in German.

Alastair


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## Roger Griffiths

Inward passenger lists are on Ancestry.com
Outgoing passenger lists are on Find My Past.com
These are copies from TNA Kew.
Apart from these very few passenger lists are available from local sources.

Roger


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## TOM ALEXANDER

andygibb said:


> Families.....who would have them?
> 
> All the best
> 
> Andy


Hi! Andy,

Have you tried Glasgow University archives?? A few years ago now I was trying to trace the provenance of an old binnacle and they were most helpful. They had some old records I would never have thought of.


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