# CR 10 and Seamans Pouch



## Jon T. (Oct 18, 2011)

I obtained the attached CR 10 from one of the genealogy websites. I have a couple of questions which I hope you can help with please.
This card shows only one ship that he served on, BISN ss Mandala left London 14.11.19 arrived Bombay 10.12.19. He left the ship in Bombay and spent the best part of 4 years, still with BI, on various ships on the Indian coast returning to the UK on ss Naldera to London arriving 06.07.23. to complete his Masters Certificate.
First question? Could there be a record held somewhere of the ships he was on with BI?
Secondly. Is it probable that there would not be any other information held at Kew?


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## Hugh MacLean (Nov 18, 2005)

Jon T.

CR 10s form part of the Central Index Register of Seamen (the Fourth Register) 1918-1941 but the CR 10 only covers a small part of that time period, namely, 1918-21.

He has a medal card for WW2 so obviously served after 1921. Can you tell me when he sailed as Mate or Master?

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/SearchUI/Details?uri=D4355085

Medal card can be downloaded for £3.36.

Regards
Hugh


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## Roger Griffiths (Feb 10, 2006)

Given that you are looking for his service whilst in India. Your best bet is to look at the British India Steam Navigation Co archives held by NMM Greenwich.
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/nra/searches/subjectView.asp?ID=B11004
It may also be advantageous to see if he has any records in Lloyds Captains Register Held by London Metropolitan Archives (until 1947/8)
Apart from selective ships Logbooks and the information given by Hugh I doubt there is little at TNA to assist you.

regards
Roger


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## Jon T. (Oct 18, 2011)

Hugh,
Thanks for your response, informative as ever.
This leads on to the next query. He passed his Masters in 1923 and retired in 1960. I obtained the details of the ships he sailed on, with this certificate, some years ago from the NMM at Greenwich. However, this covers the period 1928 to 1947.
Any suggestions where I might look for the missing years?


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## Jon T. (Oct 18, 2011)

Roger,
Thanks also for your response, great information supplied, unaware of the archive held at Greenwich, will arrange a trip.
You have answered one query re the Lloyds Captains Register ending in 47/48.
He sailed with Alfred Holt/Blue Funnel from 1923 until his retirement, a trip to Liverpool Maritime Museum unfortunately did not provide any information. Would you know if there is any archive held for them?


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## Hugh MacLean (Nov 18, 2005)

Jon T,
Roger has lead you to what was going to be my next advice, namely Lloyd's Captains Register but you have the information contained. As always Roger is a mine of information and what he doesn't know about seamen's records is not worth knowing and his advice is well worth following through.

As I understand it, you only have a record of his service up until 1947. The only other thing that may be worth a punt is to check for the existance of a CRS 10 at Kew. Hit and miss due to the fact that he served as Mate and Master and these records are recorded in Lloyd's Captains Register. However, it would seem that some do have a CRS 10. I recently checked this out for a seaman who started as deckboy and finished as Master and all his ships were recorded on his CRS 10. Roger is certainly more knowledgeable on this than I am but if you are in a position to check this out it can do no harm.

The file would be *BT 382/1421* but it would need a visit to Kew to check out.

Regards
Hugh


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## Jon T. (Oct 18, 2011)

Hugh,
Many thanks for the additional information and link, very helpful. I have been to the NA once, about 5 years ago, will be better prepared on this visit!
Thanks to you and Roger for the help you provide to all.


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## holland25 (Nov 21, 2007)

You could try the Blue Funnel Association, they may have some pointers to his later years.


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## Jon T. (Oct 18, 2011)

Thanks holland25, will give them a try.


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## Roger Griffiths (Feb 10, 2006)

Good suggestion from Holland 25
As far as I am aware the only repository of Alfred Holt Archives is Merseyside Maritime Museum.
I dont know details of your research there but did you look at the Wages Books?
I have yet to find a central index of MN officers service records after 1948, so Hughs suggestion to look at BT382/1421 may help you. I would also look at BT382/2800.
Please keep us updated on your progress.

regards
Roger


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## John Dryden (Sep 26, 2009)

The central index Roger speaks of would be good but time marches on.Thankfully the web is a remarkable source of information of what has been kept.
I have a feeling that so many records were just dumped,simply because of their sheer bulk but you never know what may turn up.


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## Jon T. (Oct 18, 2011)

Roger,
I have checked the Merseyside MM web site and they appear to have a good deal more information available now than on my previous visit. However they advise that the location of records can be problematic, I will contact them to find out what problems I might expect.
Will let you know of any progress.
Thanks again.


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## Jon T. (Oct 18, 2011)

holland25, 
Thanks for your PM.


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## Roger Griffiths (Feb 10, 2006)

Just an after thought.
Before you spend good money visiting archives and the like------------

If you could get hold of the name or the official number of the last ship your man sailed on it may be possible to back track all of his ships via crew agreements which in the main are stored in Newfoundland.

Maybe a good place to start is the Blue Funnel forum on this site
http://www.shipsnostalgia.com/forumdisplay.php?f=149 and no doubt similar forums on the internet, to ask if anyone knew your dad when he retired. I don't know how many Blue Funnel and associated companies ships were still sailing in 1960 but there must be someone out there who knew him.
Coming back to Newfoundland. They hold most of the crew agreements up until 1976 although they are unindexed from 1951. MUN
http://www.mun.ca/mha/holdings/searchcombinedcrews.php
Do have an excellent research service and although the $C40per hour research fee seems a lot, it would probably work out cheaper in the long run.
Sadly I would agree with John Drydens comments.

regards 
Roger


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## Jon T. (Oct 18, 2011)

Thanks to you all for your time and suggestions, I never thought it would be such a task to find out this information. This man was my Great Uncle, his brother spent his whole working life with R S Dalglish but at least I have his discharge book!


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