# 'I beat pirates with a hose and sonic cannon' (BBC News)



## SN NewsCaster (Mar 5, 2007)

A British security officer is awarded an honour for bravery after fending off a pirate attack against a cruise liner.

More from BBC News...


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## benjidog (Oct 27, 2005)

An interesting story and two very brave men. 

They are lucky to be alive and the passengers should be very grateful to them for fending off the pirates.

Regards,

Brian


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## Geoff Garrett (May 2, 2006)

For many decades, hundreds of acts of piracy have occurred and continue with monotonous regularity on the high seas, sometimes with merchant seaman losing their lives or else being hi-jacked and dumped in "other" countries. They have been robbed and valuable cargoes stolen and these crimes do not even rate a paragraph at the bottom of any international newspaper's page. 

It is not until a passenger ship is pirated, with loads of squawking passengers crying out that medals start being handed out, heroes created and banner headlines published. 

When something like a VLCC or other is stranded at some international maritime choke point with subsequent enviromental and economic damage will Authorities wake up and start quite literally kicking some ass with a big boot.


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## Cap'n Pete (Feb 27, 2006)

I was very disappointed to note that this "hero" is now suing the shipping line for negligence over this pirate attack. As far as I am aware, he has not suffered any permanent injuries that preclude him from staying at sea.

Being attacked by pirates is, I'm afraid, part of the dangers faced by seafarers. I was beaten senseless by pirates when they attacked my ship but I never took my employer to the cleaners afterwards for compensation.

By claiming negligence against the shipowner, he will by default also be claiming that the captain of his ship was also negligent in allowing pirates to attack. If he wins, then the captain will probably be sacked.

He may be a hero to some, but to seafarers who have to face the realities of piracy every working day of their lives, he's just a pain in the ass.


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## 12-4 (Oct 5, 2005)

I think he is a very brave man who unfortunately suffered permanent damage to his hearing. Sadly, the only way he can be effectively compensated is to sue the vessel's insurers. To describe him as a pain in the ass because he is trying to protect his future, is a bit unfair


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## benjidog (Oct 27, 2005)

Sorry Cap'n Pete but I do not agree with your views on this. The man has suffered what appears to be permanent injury so why should he not get compensation for that? I guess this is the only way he can get it. If the company offered him decent compensation he would not have to do this.

The fact that you suffered and didn't get compensation is equally unfair. I think this is a case of misplaced loyalty; the man has the rest of his life to live and deafness could affect his ability to earn and almost certainly his private life. 

Good luck to him I say!

Regards,

Brian


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## James_C (Feb 17, 2005)

Why oh why oh why is it the state of affairs in this country that should something befall our person then we feel we're automatically entitled to a lot of money for our trouble? 
He was paid to do the job of Security Officer, if he didn't realise that that may involve an element of risk to himself then he must be naive or just plain daft. As Cap'n Pete says, there are a hell of a lot of men out there who've suffered far worse, and received nothing in return. They took it on the chin and acted like the men they are, why not this chap? THAT'S LIFE.
If he had been using the LRAD properly then perhaps he wouldn't have suffered hearing damage. A degree of personal responsibility there perhaps?
Carnival are a responsible company, and I can't see them not paying out a fair amount in recognition of any injuries suffered, as should be stipulated in his contract of employment. If this chap had been sacked because of some hearing damage then that would be a different matter.
I'm sorry, but I'm one of those stick in the muds who absolutely abhor today's compensation culture and especially those who encourage it. In recent years it's grown to be one of greatest stains on our society.


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## Tony Breach (Jun 15, 2005)

I concur with you on this one Jim. I am a little perplexed as to why Her Majesty should present medals to quasi-seafarers serving on a Bahamas flag vessel whose beneficial owner is apparently resident in the USA. 

Tony


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## Hague (Feb 23, 2007)

Tony Breach said:


> I concur with you on this one Jim. I am a little perplexed as to why Her Majesty should present medals to quasi-seafarers serving on a Bahamas flag vessel whose beneficial owner is apparently resident in the USA.
> 
> Tony


Tony,
You are opening up an 'old chestnut' here that has been well subscribed to.
What's the difference between registering in Nassau with a US owner or London with a Taiwanese owner. They are both FOC.


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## captainchris (Oct 29, 2006)

I am a little concerned about the situation that the men were security people on board a passenger ship. If they have the equipment to counteract the people they are dettering then surely they must have the equipment to prevent loss of hearing etc. I also believe that the vessel was under slow speed to delay arrival in Kenya and knowing the waters quite well you don't go near Somalia, you hang of well to seaward. I might be wrong and I am sure somebody will set me right.
Best regards,
Chris


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## Steve Woodward (Sep 4, 2006)

Difficult one this, if he is genuinly injured mentally or Physically then yes i agreee with compo, but then he was hired to do the job.
Personally I would like to have seen the headline " man beat pirate with baseball bat".
I dont think piracy is in anyway amusing and I dont like films based on it.


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## Cap'n Pete (Feb 27, 2006)

I was not aware that this gentleman had suffered permanent injury. If so, and his employer has failed to offer compensation, then he entitled to seek redress through the courts.

I know the family of a British captain who was murdered in the South China Sea in 1991; they only got the life insurance offered as part of his contract for "death in service". The family of his Filipino chief officer, who was murdered in the same attack, only received 5,000 usd. The families of hundreds of other seafarers who have lost their lives in pirate attacks have also only received very little in compensation.

At the end of the day, this man was employed to protect the ship on which he served from pirate attacks - unlike normal seafarers, that was his job. He was a security guard!


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## benjidog (Oct 27, 2005)

The argument made on several posts seems to be along the lines of "I or someone I know suffered doing their duty but didn't whine about compensation so why should anyone else get any."

OK so let's take this argument to its logical conclusion. A British serviceman gets shot and disabled in Iraq. By this argument he is only doing his job and should expect to get shot so why should he expect compensation.

This is balderdash! If this man was injured in pursuit of his job he should be compensated. If others have not been compensated that does not make it right that this man should not either. 

The man prevented the passengers being robbed or worse by pirates - give him some credit for God's sake!

Regards,

Brian


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## John Rogers (May 11, 2004)

A few days ago while cruising a 130 miles off the coast of Tunisia our ship the Westerdam spotted a small rowing boat with people in it waving a life jacket,the ship turned around and went back to investigate what the problem was. The small wooden boat contained 8 men all in their 20s,they had set out from Algeria in an attempt to reach Corsica,the boat started to leak water,they had ran out of food and water and one guy was very sick and laying in the bottom of the boat. They were very lucky as it was about to get dark and we would of never seen them. Now the weird part of the story, the captain lowered a motor launch and went over to the men in the small boat using the size of the Westerdam to shield them from the wind and the waves,a member of the crew asked them where they were from and where they were trying to get to in a leaking boat, they asked if the ship was going to Italy,they were told no she was going to Tunis,they refused to be rescued but asked for food and water which they were given plus a blanket each, the captain radioed Algiers coastguard for help and was told to stand by until help arrived. Well we stood by for two hours and then we were informed by the captain that the Algerian navy said they would not come to the rescue, he informed the eight men that he was taking them on-board and taking them to Tunis. They left the small boat to drift away and we proceeded on our way. Apparently this is not the first account of people paddling out into the meddy hoping for a ship to pass by and then be rescued and taken to the next port, it happened a few weeks ago to a British Cruise line ship who picked up 11 of them and took them to England. Tough luck for them we were going the wrong way. My point being they could of also been pirates or terrorist posing as helpless survivors. I will post a picture of them sitting in their small boat in a day or so.
John.


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## Geoff Garrett (May 2, 2006)

For the couple of centuries when _Pax Britannica_ held sway, International Waters were exactly that, a road where any man may freely travel upon without let or hindrance and the Royal Navy duly enforced that principle.

The menace of piracy escalates annually and today this duty of enforcement now falls upon the USN as the worlds pre-eminent sea power, and what does Uncle Sam do about it, absolutely nothing!


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## James_C (Feb 17, 2005)

Brian,
That's a pretty daft argument regarding soldiers. After all, if you join the Army is it too much to expect you might actually go to war and engage in some less than safe activities? 
I mean, come on, what is the prima face reason for Armed forces?
You join the Army to protect this country, that may involve shooting or being shot at, it's what the army does. If a serviceman is disabled, he gets a lifetime pension from the MoD.
I'm sorry, but if you're not prepared to take the risks that come with your job, then don't sign up. SIMPLE. 
It's not as if we live in an age of conscription, is it? We do live in a free country after all.
Why should someone be given compensation for simply doing their job?


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## Cap'n Pete (Feb 27, 2006)

benjidog said:


> The argument made on several posts seems to be along the lines of "I or someone I know suffered doing their duty but didn't whine about compensation so why should anyone else get any."
> 
> OK so let's take this argument to its logical conclusion. A British serviceman gets shot and disabled in Iraq. By this argument he is only doing his job and should expect to get shot so why should he expect compensation.
> 
> ...


This man has already had his bravery recognised and QUITE RIGHTLY too!

However, the argument is whether or not he is right to sue his employer, and by implication, his former captain for negligence.

To compare servicemen who fight for their country with security guards is really unfair. The families of servicemen, particularly their widows and children, are well catered for in British society, AS THEY SHOULD BE. However, this is not true for merchant seamen, particularly those killed in pirate attacks.

This man has every right to claim compensation for his injuries. However, this is NOT THE SAME as claiming that the ship's captain was negligent.


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## 12-4 (Oct 5, 2005)

Lets put it the otherway round - Lets suggest he (and his colleague) didn't do their duty and the pasengers were robbed and pillaged and whatever else pirates do. Those passengers would be suing in large numbers for large amounts claiming the ship's company had failed in its duty to protect them. In this litigious age nobody would expect otherwise. 

His bravery saved the insurers huge sums of money and if he was injured in this adventure he should be able to claim suitable compensation particularly if his injuries are permanent and prevent him from leading a normal life in future. (PS The Captain isn't being sued)


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## Cap'n Pete (Feb 27, 2006)

Under the Shipping Acts of the United Kingdom, crew AND passengers have a legal duty to repel pirates (check you if you do not believe me). Far from being allowed to sue, passengers who did not assist in repelling boarders are, therefore, liable to prosecution. Hardly likely I know, but that's the law.

The captain is not being sued. However, the action will almost certainly be against "The master and owners" - every other case brought against shipowners for negligence normally is. Again, check if you do not believe me.


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## Hague (Feb 23, 2007)

Pete,
The following well known case comes to mind which expands your ref 'master and owners'.

*Adler v Dickinson [1954]* 
The plaintiff was a passenger on a P & O ship under a contract which excluded the liability of employees for negligence. The plaintiff (Lady Adler) fell off the gangway due to the negligence of employees and sued the captain. It was held by the Court of Appeal that the captain was a third party as regards the contract between the plaintiff and P & O and could not rely on the exclusion clause in the contract.


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## Tony Breach (Jun 15, 2005)

The ship was registered in Nassau. Do the UK Shipping Acts apply?


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## Hague (Feb 23, 2007)

Tony Breach said:


> The ship was registered in Nassau. Do the UK Shipping Acts apply?


Tony,
Nothing to stop you doing 'Jurisdiction shopping'


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