# General Average? - MSC Napoli



## glitterpunk (Jan 24, 2007)

Hi, I've been reading these forums for quite some time. Has a general average been declared, or will it not now that it has been beached? Can someone explain this to me.

Thanks!


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## benjidog (Oct 27, 2005)

Welcome to SN Glitterpunk.

Sorry but what is a "general average" in this context please? Not a term I have come across before.

Regards,

Brian


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## non descript (Nov 18, 2005)

benjidog said:


> Welcome to SN Glitterpunk.
> 
> Sorry but what is a "general average" in this context please? Not a term I have come across before.
> 
> ...


Brian, you really don't want to know.....

GA is a mystery to us all, well working it out is !

Kind regards
(Thumb)


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## Tmac1720 (Jun 24, 2005)

Mark, MSC should join a good P&I club..........H&W did and look what happened to them(Jester) (Brian must be well confused by now)


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## non descript (Nov 18, 2005)

Brian,

GA is a bit like a *Mince Pie*.... very easy to spell, appears normal, and made of logical things, but once you get to know it, then very odd things happen..

(Jester)


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## makko (Jul 20, 2006)

Although pronounced as average, it might be easier to think of it as "a-ver-ridge" (ver as in version) in this sense. There are two types of average - particular and general. Particular average is a partial loss to the insured object by a cause covered in the insurance policy. Think of a crane damaged by heavy seas.
General average deals with "loss of the insured object", the results of which can result in a Constructive Total Loss (cost of repair exceeds the value of the object) or Real Total Loss (the insured object is destroyed or lost resulting in something that cannot be insured). Here the waters muddy. The Adjuster may have to decide whether to apply General Average or Sue and Labour. In a nutshell, General Average is borne by the insured and the costs cannot be recovered by Sue and Labour. Sue and Labour on the other hand refers to the costs incurred by or in the name of the Insured for the security and preservation of the insured object, these being apart from the costs of General Average or Salvage. Sue and Labour costs are to minimise or diminish the loss and is a shared responsibility between the insured and the insurance company. Sue and Labour costs are additional to the payment for a Total Loss. I think that's enough for now!

Regards,

Dave


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## makko (Jul 20, 2006)

Brian, may I suggest York Antwerp 1950 or 1974 or 1974 amended in 1990 as a touch of light reading!


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## glitterpunk (Jan 24, 2007)

I understand the concept of general average (heh) but I've heard that it may be declared soon, but not now since MSC napoli is beached. I guess I'm just searching for the truth in this whole mess.


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## R58484956 (Apr 19, 2004)

Welcome glitterpunk to the site enjoy it and all it has to offer any more easy questions ? Bon voyage.


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## benjidog (Oct 27, 2005)

Thanks gentlemen.

Tonga makes an astute observation - I really don't want to know now - my brain is hurting already.

I guess the bottom line is it is all about insurance companies trying to pay up as little as possible - as per usual. (Cloud) 

Brian


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## makko (Jul 20, 2006)

Brian,

I actually work as an Adjuster. It is not a question of when or how much to pay. The first question is "Is it covered by the policy?". The second action is to get all the relevant do***entation to support the case. After that, the sum owing for the loss will be liquidated. The biggest problem at times is getting the do***entation off the client! In the office, we attend large scale industrial losses and marine losses (my bailiwick). 

Having said that and sticking my head above the parapet, there are two events in this loss, cargo and hull & machinery. Without having read the policy, I will say that the damage to the vessel is probably covered, however do***ents need to be forthcoming particularly the previous event (grounding) and the repairs effected (return to class, etc.). The cargo loss will come from the bills of lading, invoices etc. You have to remember that the onus is on the affected (Insured) party to prove his loss, the adjuster will collate the information and make policy comments and recommendations to the insurer. The Insurer basically only wants to know if he has to pay and how much. Any contamination clean up costs should also be covered in the policy.

Or then again, as Tonga says, you really don't want to know!!!!!

Regards,

Dave


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## non descript (Nov 18, 2005)

makko said:


> Brian,
> 
> I actually work as an Adjuster. ......
> 
> ...



Dave,

I am hugely impressed; anyone who either understands or works with *General Average* is a giant among men in my book, and you do both. 

Frankly, I struggle to work out whether to amend Line 132 of the NYPE to read either _“Hire not to contribute...” _or to read _“Hire to contribute..... _

Mind you there are days when all of the 175 lines appear beyond me. (Jester) 

Regards
Mark


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