# Heating on Cruise Ships



## jaydeeare (Feb 5, 2008)

I've just been asked this question by a colleague at work who is considering doing a Winter Cruise to the Fjords.

The question is quite simple, but how much more would it cost to heat the ships cabins etc. in Northern areas compared to Tropical areas?


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## A.D.FROST (Sep 1, 2008)

In theory it costs more to cool a ship down ie A/C is powered by electricity were as heating it is normally produce from waste heat ie engine exhaust(just the same as a car)


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## jaydeeare (Feb 5, 2008)

Thanks. This is how we were discussing it, but it seemed that with the size of the cruise ships these days it would take quite a bit to heat them.


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## makko (Jul 20, 2006)

The AC will heat and cool, JDR. Just set the desired temperature and let the system do the rest. Also, as it is essentially a sealed space once the set temperature is in range, the load on the system reduces. What would become critical is the dew point and the possibility of condensation - You don't want mold and the associated smells. The total cost will be factored into the operating budget for the vessel.

I am not au fait with cruise ships but would imagine that there are AC zones with their own discreet plant.

Rgds.
Dave


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## Duncan112 (Dec 28, 2006)

I've sailed with a system on ferries where there is additional heating available in the cabin outlets from electric filament heaters - problem is that, like most electrical systems when first turned on after a bit of disuse it smells as the dust burns off. thinking about it I'm surprised Class approved such a system (Ship was Spanish built, can't remember the Class society but not Lloyds)


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## Erimus (Feb 20, 2012)

Usually felt warm rather than cold on our cruises,including late Autumn Alaska and Spring in Baltic.......secret is keep balcony doors closed and you get what you want.

geoff


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## Mad Landsman (Dec 1, 2005)

It has always appeared to me that the cost (per day/per mile/per port) of cruises in the higher latitudes is always more expensive than like for like in warmer climes. 
I have always put this down to the additional fuel costs involved for heating. 
I also understand that engines tend to be marginally more fuel efficient in warm air than in cold - Anybody have any views on that one?


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## makko (Jul 20, 2006)

ML,
Generalizing, engines like cold air, it is more dense. Here in Mexico City at 7,500 feet above sea level, during these autumn mornings when I take No.1 daughter to school at 0630 when it is about 6-8°C, the additional power is appreciable in the car. When its 30°C and you've got the AC on, you can watch the fuel needle drop. Loss of power is about 3.8% per thousand feet. In Acapulco, my car will have 240HP while here in the city (at thesame ambient temperature) the o/P would be about 171 HP! This why Matiz's Atos etc. cannotget above 50 K.p.h. Going out to Toluca, there is a section where you pass through 10,000 feet and cars just won't accelerate - Even turbos don't function above 10K, you really need a supercharger.

There are various turbogas (gas turbine) generation plants close to Mexico Cityand they have fogging systems to increase the efficiency lost due to altitude and high ambient temperatures.

Where is Swansea Chief when we need him?

Rgds.
Dave


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## bones140 (Jun 16, 2009)

A.D.FROST said:


> In theory it costs more to cool a ship down ie A/C is powered by electricity were as heating it is normally produce from waste heat ie engine exhaust(just the same as a car)


How about an absorption chiller driven from the exhaust waste heat?


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## A.D.FROST (Sep 1, 2008)

bones140 said:


> How about an absorption chiller driven from the exhaust waste heat?


or how about shaft alternators (No such thing as a free lunch I guess)


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## Mad Landsman (Dec 1, 2005)

makko said:


> ML,
> Generalizing, engines like cold air, it is more dense. Here in Mexico City at 7,500 feet above sea level, during these autumn mornings when I take No.1 daughter to school at 0630 when it is about 6-8°C, the additional power is appreciable in the car. When its 30°C and you've got the AC on, you can watch the fuel needle drop. Loss of power is about 3.8% per thousand feet. In Acapulco, my car will have 240HP while here in the city (at thesame ambient temperature) the o/P would be about 171 HP! This why Matiz's Atos etc. cannotget above 50 K.p.h. Going out to Toluca, there is a section where you pass through 10,000 feet and cars just won't accelerate - Even turbos don't function above 10K, you really need a supercharger.
> 
> There are various turbogas (gas turbine) generation plants close to Mexico Cityand they have fogging systems to increase the efficiency lost due to altitude and high ambient temperatures.
> ...


Yes, thanks. That all makes abundant sense and I know that denser air gives more power (as a generalisation) but there is something in the back of my mind about efficiency of the ratio of 'fuel used' to 'pushing a ship though water' that apparently works the opposite way around. 
Maybe the person who said it was referring to the density of the water, although I cannot see that making too much difference.


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## makko (Jul 20, 2006)

Oh dear, ML! Let me see - Denser water i.e. seawater, more buoyancy. Less dense i.e. FW, less buoyancy.

More buoyancy - Less wetted area = Less drag. less fuel consumpt.
Less buoyancy - More wetted area = More drag. more fuel consumpt.

However, would not the prop be more efficient in denser water? Geez, the head is spinning now!

My only consolation is that we are WAY off thread! Ha-Ha!

Rgds.
Dave


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## alaric (Feb 27, 2012)

jaydeeare said:


> I've just been asked this question by a colleague at work who is considering doing a Winter Cruise to the Fjords.
> 
> The question is quite simple, but how much more would it cost to heat the ships cabins etc. in Northern areas compared to Tropical areas?


There are a number different systems available for heating and cooling ship's accommodation.
A widely used simple method, easily envisaged, comprises a heat exchanger in each space (cabin) with separate heating and cooling coils, controlled by the room stat. 
The heating coil is supplied with a flow of hot water which is generated from waste heat given off by the engines. When cabin heating is not required, waste heat from the engine will be absorbed by the sea. Effectively free energy, although there are of course relatively small costs of running pumps and fans to effect the transfers.
The cooling coil on the other hand, is supplied with a flow of chilled water, generated by a conventional refrigeration system powered by electric motors. Virtually all electricity generated on board comes from running generator engines. There is very little scope for generating “free power”, which can be done to a limited extent on land.
The cost of cooling a cruise ship in the tropics is far greater than heating it in the arctic.


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## jaydeeare (Feb 5, 2008)

Thanks for all this information. I'll pass it on to my colleague.


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