# Falklands veterans honour UK dead (BBC News)



## SN NewsCaster (Mar 5, 2007)

Prince Edward pays tribute to British servicemen killed in the bombing of two troop ships during the Falklands War.

More from BBC News...


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## Derek Roger (Feb 19, 2005)

SN NewsCaster said:


> Prince Edward pays tribute to British servicemen killed in the bombing of two troop ships during the Falklands War.
> 
> More from BBC News...



Would have been nice to include the loss of Capt North and crew.


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## sparkie2182 (May 12, 2007)

overlooked........as ever.............


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## Steve Woodward (Sep 4, 2006)

Wonder why it wasnt Andrew


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## UmbornePirate (Feb 3, 2007)

*Merchant Navy are not forgotten*



Derek Roger said:


> Would have been nice to include the loss of Capt North and crew.


This report is only part of the media reporting of the current memorial events rather than a deliberate slight. The occasion being reported was the laying of a wreath at the Memorial to the Fitzroy incident in the Falklands by Prince Edward, in his capacity as Commodore in Chief of the RFA, as the uniform shows. 

Captain North and the many others who lost their lives at sea are properly remembered at the Falkland Islands Memorial Chapel, details here. The Garden of Remembrance run by the South Atlantic Medal Association (1982) includes Captain North's own memorial recorded here It contains a copy of the citation for the DSC that he was awarded and a moving tribute from the Argentinian CO of the squadron that sank Atlantic Conveyor.

Steve Woodward (post above) might be interested to read Prince Andrew's article on yesterday's leader page of the Daily Telegraph which can be read here.

Today's Royal visit and ceremony at the Falkland Islands Chapel provides the media with an opportunity for some more balanced reporting. Lets hope they take it.

All the best

Pirate


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## K urgess (Aug 14, 2006)

Quite a piece by York.
I suspect the majority of it is personally his with just a few tweaks.
I totally agree with the "loose tongues" in today's world. Doesn't make life easy for anybody's forces in the face of danger.
I've spared several quiet thoughts in remembrance of the Falklands over the last few days.

Kris


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## ernhelenbarrett (Sep 7, 2006)

I sailed with Ian North on the Port Vindex when he was 2nd Mate, we were in Hobart and Beauty Point loading apples during the Wharfies Strike. I remember one Sunday he convinced the "Old Man" Capt Hazelwood we needed
boat drill and took a full lifeboat load of us from Beauty Point to Launceston and into the local pub where he convinced the local cop we were indeed "bona fide" travellers having come the required 25 miles and were therefore allowed to have a drink ( this in the good old days of the 6pm swill)
and the cop let us into the pub...and came in with us for a few bevvies!!!.
We did not get back to Beauty Point till after midnight .. steering a very erratic course.. and Capt. Hazelwood was '"NOT AMUSED"!!!!! Ian North also
played the Northumberland bagpipes which he used to do often on the 12-4
watch much to the amusement of the passengers...A great Man, sadly missed.
Ern Barrett ex R/O


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## Derek Roger (Feb 19, 2005)

UmbornePirate said:


> This report is only part of the media reporting of the current memorial events rather than a deliberate slight. The occasion being reported was the laying of a wreath at the Memorial to the Fitzroy incident in the Falklands by Prince Edward, in his capacity as Commodore in Chief of the RFA, as the uniform shows.
> 
> Captain North and the many others who lost their lives at sea are properly remembered at the Falkland Islands Memorial Chapel, details here. The Garden of Remembrance run by the South Atlantic Medal Association (1982) includes Captain North's own memorial recorded here It contains a copy of the citation for the DSC that he was awarded and a moving tribute from the Argentinian CO of the squadron that sank Atlantic Conveyor.
> 
> ...


Many thanks Pirate . Derek


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## kevhogg (Jul 20, 2005)

much the same said in my local papers all about the services and rightly so, but would be nice to mention the effort and sacrifice of the Merchant Navy lads.


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## BarryM (Jan 19, 2006)

Just curious but will somebody tell me what qualifies Eddie Wessex to be 'RFA Commodore in Chief' and should we tell it to the Marines?


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## John Campbell (Aug 30, 2005)

BarryM said:


> Just curious but will somebody tell me what qualifies Eddie Wessex to be 'RFA Commodore in Chief' and should we tell it to the Marines?


Having watched today's great Falklands Memorial Parade in Whitehall on BBC TV - I waited in vain to hear of the of the great contribution that was made by the Merchant Navy.

It was only when the Chinook helicopters were flying down the Mall that the commentator mentioned the helicopters which were lost on the "Atlantic Conveyor" when she sank. I suppose the Earl of Wessex dressed up as a commodore of the RFA was supposed to represent the MN. Where were the crews of the Canberra or the QE2 should not they have been part of the parade? I think we should be told.
JC


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## BarryM (Jan 19, 2006)

I noted that omission as well but put it down to the usual media ignorance. Mind you, having seem his attempts to march in step, I must admit that Andy Windsor has a promising career in the Ministry of Silly Walks.


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## sparkie2182 (May 12, 2007)

did anyone catch the remark by the (so called) expert for the b.b.c, that the only brave man onboard a ship (RN obviously, as the M.N. wasnt mentioned, apart from the aside about the atlantic conveyor)......is the captain?
this gem of wisdom was made by retired colonel john hughes wilson, late of the military INTELLIGENCE corps.

as they used to say in school exams...........please discuss


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## John Campbell (Aug 30, 2005)

sparkie2182 said:


> did anyone catch the remark by the (so called) expert for the b.b.c, that the only brave man onboard a ship (RN obviously, as the M.N. wasnt mentioned, apart from the aside about the atlantic conveyor)......is the captain?
> this gem of wisdom was made by retired colonel john hughes wilson, late of the military INTELLIGENCE corps.
> 
> as they used to say in school exams...........please discuss


I heard that remark as well and I have complained to the BBC for their complete failure to utter the words "Merchant Navy".My wife and I were proud to see the Services etc on the TV broadcast but were quite saddened to see, true to form, complete indifference to the those who served under the Red Ensign. It would have been nice to have heard one word about them in their prayers. After all who took those people out there?


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## sparkie2182 (May 12, 2007)

thats at least two complaints then mate........to the bbc.

mine was posted at 1805........as soon as the programme ended.

galling to know that this old dinosaur of an "expert" (with his elitist views......reminiscent of world war 1 thinking)....is being paid by bbc license payers money.

in my email to the b.b.c........i have invited him to explain the logic underlying his public statement.

i will advise of any reply (fat chance)

my regards to you and your lady wife..........

sparkie2182


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## John Campbell (Aug 30, 2005)

sparkie2182 said:


> thats at least two complaints then mate........to the bbc.
> 
> mine was posted at 1805........as soon as the programme ended.
> 
> ...


Thanks Sparkie, 
here is my blast to the BBC - I too await results but am not hopefull
.
Why did your commentators not mention just once the important role played by the British Merchant Navy. Your ignorance is contemptable to all who served in a role which was vital to the whole operation. Shame on you !


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## sparkie2182 (May 12, 2007)

i suspect there will be others in support john.........


best regards.......


allan


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## Coastie (Aug 24, 2005)

I didn't see the broadcast as I'm on nights, but I too deplore the fact that the BBC did not mention the MN during it.


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## Pompeyfan (Aug 9, 2005)

As usual, the BBC either completely forgets the merchant navy. Or when they do mention the MN, insult it by getting their facts wrong. BarryM was spot on when he wrote media ignorance. I am afraid they are not the only ones when it comes to the merchant navy.

However, for the record BarryM, Prince Edward was in the Falklands to represent Her Majesty the Queen. His role as Commodore in Chief, Royal Fleet Auxillary is recently created. 

It can be argued until the cows come home why a particular member of the Royal Family has such a role. Some such as Prince Andrew have earned their rank, but others take on the roles qualifying because they are members of the Royal Family.

I have no wish to sound biassed, but I think we do what we do very well by having a Royal Family to represent the reigning Monarch. Other countries love all the pomp, and others very jealous. 

Merchant Navy Day will be happening again soon, the 3rd September. Her Majesty may well say a few words again as she did last year, but don't count on the BBC mentioning us however. David


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## R736476 (Jul 2, 2005)

It was indeed a serious omission that the BBC commentators made not one mention of the role of the Merchant Navy in transporting the troops and equipment to the Falklands, providing the hospital ship and repatriating the Argies. One short interview with Chris Locke of the RFA was all we got.
Sadly this has become par for the course.
The BBC deserve to be taken to task over this one.
Alex


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## UmbornePirate (Feb 3, 2007)

*Background to Royal Patronage of Forces of the Crown*



Pompeyfan said:


> ..........However, for the record BarryM, Prince Edward was in the Falklands to represent Her Majesty the Queen. His role as Commodore in Chief, Royal Fleet Auxillary is recently created.
> 
> It can be argued until the cows come home why a particular member of the Royal Family has such a role. Some such as Prince Andrew have earned their rank, but others take on the roles qualifying because they are members of the Royal Family.
> 
> ......... David


David

I agree with your sentiments about the value of Royal patronage. If members wish to take up your invitation to argue until the cows come home they may be interested to start by reading the background to Prince Edward's appointment, which was part of a wider review that took place in 2006 and is described here.

All the best

Pirate


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## Pompeyfan (Aug 9, 2005)

Yes, Pirate, I know all about this review, but thanks for pointing it out to others. It is a case of reading between the lines of my other post. 

We do what we do pretty well in this country with our heritage which is why we are the envy of other countries. Indeed, some Commonwealth countries go further than us. New Zealand and Australia for example celebrate the Queens official birthday with a public holiday, we don't. And it is mid winter Down Under, no other reason reason for a public holiday. And I think Fiji still honours that day despite being a Republic now.

But that is not for this thread. You can be reassured however that Her Majesty is very supportive of the Merchant Navy. David


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## paisleymerchant (Mar 15, 2007)

I too watched the program yesterday on BBC, to say I am disgusted at the treatment of the MN
Is a slight understatement and when the announcer proclaimed that it was a "tri-service" effort it made me see red.
what the BBC has failed to realise that without the MN, the conflict could not have been won.
Lets not forget that all the MN down there were all volunteers I was not there during the conflist but was there for a year after it on the "Tor Caledonia" but I had a mate who sailed down on the QE2 in fact he phoned hid mum half hour before the ship sailed to tell her he was off down the Falklands (probably so his mum could not ban him from going !)
as they say the MN is the forgotten service


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## BarryM (Jan 19, 2006)

UmbornePirate said:


> David
> 
> I agree with your sentiments about the value of Royal patronage. If members wish to take up your invitation to argue until the cows come home they may be interested to start by reading the background to Prince Edward's appointment, which was part of a wider review that took place in 2006 and is described here.
> 
> ...


OK - I've read it. Now tell me how they _earned_ these positions?


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## fred henderson (Jun 13, 2005)

The report in the Daily Telegraph today gives equal honours to the Merchant Navy. After the Royal Navy, but before all of the other services in their list.

Fred


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## Pompeyfan (Aug 9, 2005)

BarryM

Some of the Royals earn the rank they have, others don't. That is what I am trying to say. They take the top role due to their Royal position. You can argue as to whether this is right or wrong, but it is a tradition our country has always followed and admired by other countries. 

I am not saying whether it is right or wrong. David


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## sparkie2182 (May 12, 2007)

good on the daily telegraph fred............however...........


as barrym says............how are these appointments earned?

the one thing that cannot be argued is the fact that the RFA are stuck with a commodore in chief who doesnt know an azimuth mirror from a rear view mirror.........and whose uniformed experience consists of being kicked out of the royal marines while still in training.

is he supposed to be a role model for cadets and junior rates?


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## BarryM (Jan 19, 2006)

David,

I "earned" my MN stripes through graft, ability and examination. How did Eddie (RM Failed), a couple of newly-qualified Army 2nd lieutenants and various females with b***** all naval experience earn theirs? Not to mention the meteoric rise in rank of Charlie and Randy Andy? 

How many of the real navy types watching Eddie in uniform had any respect for him because of his achievements (It's a Royal Knockout etc.) - Precious few I should think

As for these inbred wonders being the envy of the world, plenty of countries have become republics but how many have converted to monarchies?

As Gilbert & Sullivan wrote, "Stick close to your desks and never go to sea and you all can be Admirals of the Queen's Navee...".


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## Pompeyfan (Aug 9, 2005)

Barry M

I undertsand exactly what you are saying, and actually agree. You put up a good argument.

I am neither standing up for the monarchy, or complaining about it, just presenting facts. 

All I can do is say how the system works, a system that has stood this country in good stead throughout history whether you dislike Royalty or not or what they stand for. Luckily we live in a country of free speech where we can say what we think. 

When Prince Charles and got married, I was in the USA. Woman were crying. They loved all the pomp and ceremony wishing they had the same there. 

I know exactly what you mean by earning your stripes. I personally achieved all I did on my own with the help of anybody.

And so did we in the Falklands. We did it alone just as we did at the beginning of World War 2. Our own Queen was in that. So don't put the Royals down too much. When the going gets tough, they get stuck in like the rest of us. They do far more than is ever made public. That is why our tiny islands have never been deafted. We once had the biggest navy in the world, built the best merchant ships, the best aircraft and just about ruled the world. Some people still despise the British Empire. But without it, some countries would not be what they are today. And what do we get as thanks?. A kick in the teeth. 

The Royal Family may be disliked by some out of jealousy or whatever, but with them throughout our history we have achieved the almost impossible from our small islands. Now, Europe wants to take our powers away, do what Hitler or others could never do, bring this country down. Well, just as with the Falklands, we won't let them. Prince Harry wanted to fight in Iraq, but was not allowed to. Please don't put the Royals down too much, they have more guts than many people think. David


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## M29 (Apr 20, 2007)

If a similar war to the Falklands broke out now, would there be British Merchant Navy ships, manned by British seafarers, to ferry the troops, kit, supplies etc.
I somehow doubt it. Perhaps then, someone will notice the Merchant Navy (or its absence) and wonder where it went! The "Fourth Service" would probably make it onto the BBC then.

Alan


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## sparkie2182 (May 12, 2007)

any truth to the story of overseas crews being paid off the canberra/qe2/uganda before falkland hostilities, being repalced by u.k...............
only to have the u.k. lads paid off after the war......oversea crew reinstated when they were no longer "needed"?

it was a long running story in the marine neck if the woods where i was working at the time

best regards to all...........

sparkie2182


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## sparkie2182 (May 12, 2007)

in reply to m29........

they would have to (A) build the appropriate ships (B) train the exclusively british crew in bloody double quick time.
i was told recently by a senior mca official.....that the disney corporation employ more seagoing staff than the british m.n. has on its books.

a true mickey mouse merchant fleet........ and i mean absolutely no disrespect to any serving british crewman........just to the system that has existed here for so long


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## Pompeyfan (Aug 9, 2005)

Sparkie2182

I don't think so. I was not aboard Canberra when they received a message from London, but I think she was around Gibralta at the time, and was the first the Captain knew of it. I will be speaking to a few of her crew in September, so will try to remember to ask them.

As for another Falklands now. Yes, it would certainly alert people to the absense of the Merchant Navy. When I go aboard cruise ships, I always make a point of telling a person how odd it is to see a European. They quickly say they are not European. That is how much things have changed. When we mentioned European in the past, we usually meant British Seamen. It is as hard to find one now as it is a British built or registered ship?!. David


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## sparkie2182 (May 12, 2007)

hi pompeyfan..........

as you say........one minute cruising off gib.........next minute heading for a war.....no special family farewells....no great expectation of fame or glory or gleaming medals.....just merchantmen doing the job they always have done so well.

the forces were well remembered and VERY RIGHTLY so, but i do ask for recognition for the m.n; and whatever our relative views on monarchy, meritocracy, or whatever, i think all s.n. members can agree on that 

regards.

sparkie2182


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## Philthechill (May 8, 2007)

*Phil Roe (Philthechill)*

We can ALL take some comfort in the fact that The Falkland Islands Government DID appreciate the role played by the MN. Charlie Drought, who was 3rd E/O on "Conveyor" when she was sunk, was invited to be part of the official party led by Prince Edward and having Lord Carrington and several other ex-Government Minister in it. Charlie rang me when he received the invitation and let me know he was going to The Falklands. Amongst obviously wanting to be there as a representative of the MN he was hoping it would help him lay a few ghosts to rest too. Salaams Phil Roe


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## David Byrne (Mar 18, 2006)

*Oxymoron*

I sailed with Charlie Drought on some Brocklebank ship or other and am delighted that he was able to be present to represent the best of the MN.

As for Military Intelligence - it has correctly been described as an oxymoron (could also be a blue flue ship, I think).

DB


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## sparkie2182 (May 12, 2007)

thanks phil..........

nice touch.........

salaams to you


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## sparkie2182 (May 12, 2007)

thanks david.......

over the years.....ex servicemen have told me of the expertise of this branch.
untill yesterday, listening to the "expert".......i never actually believed them.

i do now


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## Coastie (Aug 24, 2005)

sparkie2182 said:


> hi pompeyfan..........
> 
> as you say........one minute cruising off gib.........next minute heading for a war.....no special family farewells....no great expectation of fame or glory or gleaming medals.....just merchantmen doing the job they always have done so well.
> 
> ...



Hear, hear, Sparkie 2182.(Applause)


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