# Steering Gears



## david freeman

Hi out there! What is the modern take on the Hastie's:Brown's and other types of steering gears. Are there any novel but reliable designs, or are they (Ship Designers going for engine prop Pods which are directional? Are they now 100% reliable(Flowers)).
Any thoughts please?(Read)


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## Varley

The Amoco Cadiz debacle steered the makers towards most economical satisfaction of the new IMO requirements and away from the 'Victorian' engineering of proper steering gear with hunting gear.

It remains possible to have proper gear and to satisfy the requirements (the HHI built Conbulkers for CAST had these - the two variable displacement pumps fought a bit when the system divided as the hunting gear link remained a solid coupling between them although delivering to their own isolated ram circuits).

The most common however is to have conventional hydraulic power packs with fixed displacement pumps and the ram/vanes supplied via solenoid. Some would say the elimination of the telemotor reduces the component count to improve reliability - compared with the extra components required of the IMO imposition this is both untrue and not what experience suggest. Bang-Bang control (I like the German transcription of this, black and white control) also imposes dynamic loads which will find defects that might otherwise have lasted the life of the plant - we had the cross-head snap, an unradiused transition in the casting underlying but perhaps many such survived the gentler application of variable displacement systems).


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## R58484956

Both *QM* (1) and* QE *(1) had an engineer permanentally on watch in the steering gear always very noisy and a bit unpleasant in rough weather. (Winter north atlantic)


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## Duncan112

Must admit Dave, I too am an admirer of the swash plate pump and hunting gear principle, sailed with a few rotary vane jobs, a ferry I was on had two, one for each Becker Rudder, all well and good until during a tortured Channel crossing (24 hours Dunkirk to Dunkirk, sadly without making Dover in the interim) a lorry moved slightly and sat on the deck immideately above the Port gear, the deck distorted slightly and took up the minescule clearance between the deck head and feedback pot situated on top of the gear, causing it to fall out of alignment with the actual rudder position. we were very close to becoming a permanent fixture on The Goodwin Sands.

P&O Containers had a couple of rotary vane units where the cap headed screws securing the vane seals loosened and scored the stator unit, the repair involved cutting away the mooring deck to remove the gear for some very fancy welding and machining by Blohm & Voss. (The pump was totally destroyed by the scrap metal circulating in the system but, fortunately could be directly replaced by a disused stabiliser unit from one of the Liverpool Bay Class)

As an aside, if you look at a swashplate pump, or indeed any rotary pump or motor (or aircraft engine come to that) you will find it has an odd number of cylinders, "why?" is a very good question to ask a cadet!!


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## trotterdotpom

When I saw the thread title, I thought it was about oxtail jardinaire.

John T


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## makko

As an aside, we used to let the muslim crew use the steering gear flat for prayer. There was even an arrow indicator to point them to Mecca. 
Rgds.
Dave


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## trotterdotpom

makko said:


> As an aside, we used to let the muslim crew use the steering gear flat for prayer. There was even an arrow indicator to point them to Mecca.
> Rgds.
> Dave


Was that a con trick or was it a Mecca-seeking arrow?

John T


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## price

I remember, when I was sailing inthe British Workman, we were on passage,with a full cargo of crude oil from Bandar Mashur around the Cape to Haifa and had just bunkered in Freetown. When safely clear of the coast, it was decided to test the steering gear. I am not sure now, what exactly happened but the gear was disconnected and in the heavy swell running at the time, the quadrant was free and swung around out of control, causing considerable damage. An emergency steering was rigged, tackles attached to the quadrant with a continuous wire and leading up through the poop deck to the Port mooring steam capstan. The Helmsman was using a lifeboat compass to steer by, the Officer of the watch was on the docking bridge, keeping a check on the standard magnetic compass. NUC shapes and lights were hoisted and we made our way North to Ceuta for repairs. From memory, the Captain was Cpt Sadler, Ch/Off Mr. Houghton 2/o. Mr. Jinkerson and the 3rd/O. was Mr Green.
A memorable experience. Following discharge at Haifa, we had a short mediterranean coastal voyage and then the long monotonous trek around the Cape to Bandar Mashur for another cargo of crude oil. Bruce.


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## makko

trotterdotpom said:


> Was that a con trick or was it a Mecca-seeking arrow?
> 
> John T


No John. It was taken very seriously and it was the 2/M's job to update its position! I didn't know about this, having just joined the ship and was surprised, during one of my rounds, to see the 2/M in the steering flat. That is when I found out. It was, if you will, a relic of the of the Blue Funnel Hadji runs which originated from Penang. They had a big pointer too which was updated regularly

The crews were from Sierra Leone, hard workers and good men all.

Rgds.
Dave


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## makko

price said:


> ..... it was decided to test the steering gear....... Bruce.


We would test/check the steering every watch and had to sign a sheet kept in the SG flat to attest that we had done it. It was done in conjunction with the bridge and involved a couple of helm orders. Collision lever was usually checked during BoT games.

Rgds.
Dave


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## trotterdotpom

makko said:


> No John. It was taken very seriously and it was the 2/M's job to update its position! I didn't know about this, having just joined the ship and was surprised, during one of my rounds, to see the 2/M in the steering flat. That is when I found out. It was, if you will, a relic of the of the Blue Funnel Hadji runs which originated from Penang. They had a big pointer too which was updated regularly
> 
> The crews were from Sierra Leone, hard workers and good men all.
> 
> Rgds.
> Dave


Thanks, Dave. I was just curious because I remember a 2nd Mate getting into a spot of bother when the Somali crew realised he'd told them the wrong direction. 

John T


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## muldonaich

Varley said:


> The Amoco Cadiz debacle steered the makers towards most economical satisfaction of the new IMO requirements and away from the 'Victorian' engineering of proper steering gear with hunting gear.
> 
> It remains possible to have proper gear and to satisfy the requirements (the HHI built Conbulkers for CAST had these - the two variable displacement pumps fought a bit when the system divided as the hunting gear link remained a solid coupling between them although delivering to their own isolated ram circuits).
> 
> The most common however is to have conventional hydraulic power packs with fixed displacement pumps and the ram/vanes supplied via solenoid. Some would say the elimination of the telemotor reduces the component count to improve reliability - compared with the extra components required of the IMO imposition this is both untrue and not what experience suggest. Bang-Bang control (I like the German transcription of this, black and white control) also imposes dynamic loads which will find defects that might otherwise have lasted the life of the plant - we had the cross-head snap, an unradiused transition in the casting underlying but perhaps many such survived the gentler application of variable displacement systems).


i was three years on cast husky from new never had any trouble with the steering gear there might have been on the others brgds kev.


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## tom roberts

Steering the coaster Torwood was hit and miss,a 5ft wheel connected to a chain and quadrent steering rudder ,what a hard watch in bad weather.


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## Varley

muldonaich said:


> i was three years on cast husky from new never had any trouble with the steering gear there might have been on the others brgds kev.


Ah, what you didn't know was the the class came out with the IMO control anus for tit. Had there been a leak the block valves would have operated and both pumps would have been running. As the leaking circuit drained and the level switch in that reservoir operated on low level it would have switched off the pump on the 'healthy' side. The leaking side pump would have continued to run until destruction.

We discovered this when introducing a trainee ETO (whatever you like to call him to 'enplace' an E/O where budget would not otherwise allow). The Chief and I were introducing him to typical routines, one being the testing of the IMO controls. Because the Chief had had to do this job alone (he had cunningly drilled holes allowing him the poke down the floats with a wire to simulate the situation) but because he was clambering around the reservoirs he only heard a motor start and then another stop and assumed reasonably that the motor stopping was on the drained side. All three of class were found to be miswired.

(The OBO class from HHI Bluewhale had similar gear but were wired correctly. This didn't stop a gasket failure from causing a complete steering failure on trials).

The grounding of Cast Muskox in the St Lawrence (wasn't it?) is also quite interesting:

Compulsory under IMO one steering gear motor was fed from the emergency switchboard. The regulations also stated that the rudder angle indicator had to be capable of being fed from the emergency board (and therefore, for cheapness, they were always connected to it with no form of changeover - different now and maybe she was the cause). A fault caused the emergency switchboard alone to go black. Of course this caused much flashing of lights and buzzing of alarms on the bridge. The helmsman reported that the rudder was not answering. In fact it was answering fine it was only the indicator that wasn't. It was assumed the the vessel had suffered a 'conventional' blackout and steering system was switched over so only the emergency fed motor was 'connected'. At this point the vessel did, indeed, stop answering and promptly went aground.

David V


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## chadburn

tom roberts said:


> Steering the coaster Torwood was hit and miss,a 5ft wheel connected to a chain and quadrent steering rudder ,what a hard watch in bad weather.


Never had any problems with the rod/chain and quadrant as long as there was plenty of black oil around as with steam driven on either Bridge or in the Steering Flat(LOL)


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## muldonaich

Varley said:


> Ah, what you didn't know was the the class came out with the IMO control anus for tit. Had there been a leak the block valves would have operated and both pumps would have been running. As the leaking circuit drained and the level switch in that reservoir operated on low level it would have switched off the pump on the 'healthy' side. The leaking side pump would have continued to run until destruction.
> 
> We discovered this when introducing a trainee ETO (whatever you like to call him to 'enplace' an E/O where budget would not otherwise allow). The Chief and I were introducing him to typical routines, one being the testing of the IMO controls. Because the Chief had had to do this job alone (he had cunningly drilled holes allowing him the poke down the floats with a wire to simulate the situation) but because he was clambering around the reservoirs he only heard a motor start and then another stop and assumed reasonably that the motor stopping was on the drained side. All three of class were found to be miswired.
> 
> (The OBO class from HHI Bluewhale had similar gear but were wired correctly. This didn't stop a gasket failure from causing a complete steering failure on trials).
> 
> The grounding of Cast Muskox in the St Lawrence (wasn't it?) is also quite interesting:
> 
> Compulsory under IMO one steering gear motor was fed from the emergency switchboard. The regulations also stated that the rudder angle indicator had to be capable of being fed from the emergency board (and therefore, for cheapness, they were always connected to it with no form of changeover - different now and maybe she was the cause). A fault caused the emergency switchboard alone to go black. Of course this caused much flashing of lights and buzzing of alarms on the bridge. The helmsman reported that the rudder was not answering. In fact it was answering fine it was only the indicator that wasn't. It was assumed the the vessel had suffered a 'conventional' blackout and steering system was switched over so only the emergency fed motor was 'connected'. At this point the vessel did, indeed, stop answering and promptly went aground.
> 
> David V


 thanks david brgds kev.


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## Varley

You're very welcome, Kev.

Have you every thought that if we had got everything right first time (the Emergency switchboard failure is one that I should have avoided) we wouldn't have anything to post on SN?

David V


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## Abbeywood.

*Tjenfjord Steering gears*

Has any body had any experience with Tjenfjord Steering-gears
They are enclosed hydraulic units with quarter-circle rams, totally enclosed in an oil-bath, operating on a short stubby tiller bar.
In my experience the unit operated almost faultlessly until one day one of the hydraulic external pipes sprang a leak and flooded the steering flat with oil . Fortunately its only 'blip' during my time, but what a mess to clear up, and luckily we carried sufficient reserves to top up again.


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## skilly57

In answer to the above question on this thread, I was on a ship earlier this year that had two Tenfjord rotary vane steering units. The 690 volt pump motors are controlled by frequency controllers, and the motors only start when a rudder movement is required. And, if the movement is only a couple of degrees, the motor only rotates at barely perceptible rpm, then stops again. If the rudder movement direction needs to be reversed, then the pump motor runs in reverse.
(The pump and motor bearings should last the life of the ship - probably lucky to do 2,000 revs/day!!).
When I took the photos we were running at about 16-17 knots, and the rudders were hardly moving - she steers good!

The rudders are high-angle Becker flap rudders.

The steering flat & steering gear hydraulic pipework was always cold as there was no wastage of energy in running the steering gear pumps at full speed all the time.
Twas the coldest and quietest pair of steering flats I have ever worked in! (except for the props working their magic close beneath my feet).
Skilly


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## chadburn

Look a bit like the Voth Schneider steering gear units.


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## skilly57

Just been thinking back on the various steering gears on the ships I have sailed on during the last 45 years.
The first 3 mini bulkers (all built in Scotland) all had the good old Brown Bros rams, tiller head and cod piece, along with variable delivery pumps. Never any problems with the hydraulic telemotors or systems, as long as the oil levels were kept up.

The next little bulker (the last ship out of Robb Caledon yard in Dundee, 1979) has a Donkin rotary vane unit, along with an 85 degree active rudder unit hung below. So, the rudder can traverse from 82 - 0 - 82 degrees when ship speed is under 6 knots, but is limited to the usual 35 - 0 - 35 degrees when over 6 knots. The rudder has a 400 hp A.C. 'flooded' electric motor (the motor windings are immersed in a 50/50 mixture of antifreeze & distilled water) housed inside the 'bomb', and has a 4-bladed fully feathering CP propeller housed in the rudder nozzle. 
The 6 power cables, three hydraulic hoses, and the antifreeze/water hose from the Pleuger unit all find their way up into the steering flat through the hollow rudder stock.
This unit is the ship's stern thruster, and after 35 years of use is still functioning as intended. When new, the ship could do 4 -5 knots on this unit alone, running it from 2 aux. generators. 
Along with the bow thruster, the old girl is very manoeuvrable, and although now 36 years old, is still going strong (I now work on Chinese-built AHTS vessels in the offshore industry - none of them will last even half the life of the ship above!).

The 2007 photo shows the new Berg CP propeller that replaced the troublesome Stone Manganese Marine item in 2004.

The actual rotary vane unit has given little trouble - just the odd blown contactor, so you steer it with two pegs of wood or a welding rod while someone else changes the contactor. But, it is a very 'Bang Bang' operation - there is nothing smooth about the way it changes angle. Just two gear pumps and electric solenoids to control the oil flow.

Forgot to add - the first three photos I took at the guarantee docking in 1980, and the steering gear photo I took in 2010. The ship has just carried it's ten millionth tonne of bulk cement, so, Jack Reilly, ex yard manager at Robb Caledon, Dundee, in 1979 - if you are still with us and read this - well done mate!!!

When I get a little time I will upload a short video clip of a little trouble-shooting episode on the QE2's steering gear while at sea.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPIYMOV1h3Q

Just wish the camera had been a HiDef model - filmed by my youngest!

Cheers
Skilly


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## Andrew147

The Br Patience had a steering gear failure on its maiden voyage just coming up to its initial discharge port (Milford Haven) in heavy weather. The wrong joint rings had been fitted (copper covered asbestos) and with the pipes flexing were spat out, loosing all the oil and allowing the rams to score on the gland rings. Solid copper rings were cut out of sheet and fitted with amazing speed!. 
A bit hairy with the rudder flopping around in the weather.
We had to stay in St Georges channel and each time we turned the vibration was such that the boiler fires shot out, the control panels were mounted on the firing platforms with soft rubber mounts (which soon got changed).
An intertesting 4/5 hours!.


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## sidsal

In 1946 I was mate on rogue tanker F J Wolfe one of 3 German built tankers (1930,s) . They were twin screwed with MAN rogue engines which broke down constantly. German engineers were at Vickers in Barrow to try and sort the engines - they were unsuccessful. They had been taken to Barrow to work on developing hydrogen peroxide propulsion for submarines - superseded by atomic power.
The steering gear was ahead of its time and a nightmare.
In front of the wheel was a box inside of which was a quadrant and as the wheel was turned the quadrant moved across electrical contacts which sent messages to the steering flat. Frequently the quadrant would snag one of the wires causing the rudder to go hard over one way and another.
After 3 months at Barrow we went to B,head to dry dock at Lairds and when we sailed the steering gear went haywire and 2 anchors were dropped and we slid beautifully alongside Woodside ferry pontoon whilst the people on the pontoon scampered up the walkway.
We always had 2 black balls roved ready to hoist and 2 red lights ready to switch on - the "not under command" signals.
Once going thru theGib Straits westbound the steering failed and we went hard a starboard and narrowly missed the Dutch liner Johan vanBarnvelt going eastward.
Happy days


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## JohnD610

skilly57 said:


> Just been thinking back on the various steering gears on the ships I have sailed on during the last 45 years.
> The first 3 mini bulkers (all built in Scotland) all had the good old Brown Bros rams, tiller head and cod piece, along with variable delivery pumps. Never any problems with the hydraulic telemotors or systems, as long as the oil levels were kept up.
> 
> The next little bulker (the last ship out of Robb Caledon yard in Dundee, 1979) has a Donkin rotary vane unit, along with an 85 degree active rudder unit hung below. So, the rudder can traverse from 82 - 0 - 82 degrees when ship speed is under 6 knots, but is limited to the usual 35 - 0 - 35 degrees when over 6 knots. The rudder has a 400 hp A.C. 'flooded' electric motor (the motor windings are immersed in a 50/50 mixture of antifreeze & distilled water) housed inside the 'bomb', and has a 4-bladed fully feathering CP propeller housed in the rudder nozzle.
> The 6 power cables, three hydraulic hoses, and the antifreeze/water hose from the Pleuger unit all find their way up into the steering flat through the hollow rudder stock.
> This unit is the ship's stern thruster, and after 35 years of use is still functioning as intended. When new, the ship could do 4 -5 knots on this unit alone, running it from 2 aux. generators.
> Along with the bow thruster, the old girl is very manoeuvrable, and although now 36 years old, is still going strong (I now work on Chinese-built AHTS vessels in the offshore industry - none of them will last even half the life of the ship above!).
> 
> The 2007 photo shows the new Berg CP propeller that replaced the troublesome Stone Manganese Marine item in 2004.
> 
> The actual rotary vane unit has given little trouble - just the odd blown contactor, so you steer it with two pegs of wood or a welding rod while someone else changes the contactor. But, it is a very 'Bang Bang' operation - there is nothing smooth about the way it changes angle. Just two gear pumps and electric solenoids to control the oil flow.
> 
> Forgot to add - the first three photos I took at the guarantee docking in 1980, and the steering gear photo I took in 2010. The ship has just carried it's ten millionth tonne of bulk cement, so, Jack Reilly, ex yard manager at Robb Caledon, Dundee, in 1979 - if you are still with us and read this - well done mate!!!
> 
> When I get a little time I will upload a short video clip of a little trouble-shooting episode on the QE2's steering gear while at sea.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPIYMOV1h3Q
> 
> Just wish the camera had been a HiDef model - filmed by my youngest!
> 
> Cheers
> Skilly


Never having seen this type of rudder before it is quite the hybrid.

Great post with the photos thanks (Thumb)


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## JohnD610

Andrew147 said:


> The Br Patience had a steering gear failure on its maiden voyage just coming up to its initial discharge port (Milford Haven) in heavy weather. The wrong joint rings had been fitted (copper covered asbestos) and with the pipes flexing were spat out, loosing all the oil and allowing the rams to score on the gland rings. Solid copper rings were cut out of sheet and fitted with amazing speed!.
> A bit hairy with the rudder flopping around in the weather.
> We had to stay in St Georges channel and each time we turned the vibration was such that the boiler fires shot out, the control panels were mounted on the firing platforms with soft rubber mounts (which soon got changed).
> An intertesting 4/5 hours!.


Never heard of this little incident Andrew ... 4/5 hours would be a long time to hold your patience .... sorry could not resist you can make me walk the plank


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## skilly57

Found my photos of the pod steering gear - taken a couple of years ago on a 'Vista' class cruise ship. The pod has 4 hydraulic drive motors arranged around the cir***ference of the unit and driving the ring gear. When the pod direction is changed the motors all sing in unison and the only visible sign of movement is the brake discs going a round. The shiny steel disc near the top of the closest motor casing in the second photo is a brakedisc, with the top of the square calliper block showing on the far side.

The pod rotates 360 degrees when manoeuvring at low speed, but is limited to the normal 35 degrees at passage speed. These are 'tractor pods' and the propeller is at the front of the pod and pulling when steaming Ahead - gives better water flow into the blades.

When in port, access can be made into the pod to check seals, bilge alarm, slip rings, etc via the air trunking door.

Skilly


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## GillB

skilly57 said:


> Just been thinking back on the various steering gears on the ships I have sailed on during the last 45 years.
> The first 3 mini bulkers (all built in Scotland) all had the good old Brown Bros rams, tiller head and cod piece, along with variable delivery pumps. Never any problems with the hydraulic telemotors or systems, as long as the oil levels were kept up.
> 
> The next little bulker (the last ship out of Robb Caledon yard in Dundee, 1979) has a Donkin rotary vane unit, along with an 85 degree active rudder unit hung below. So, the rudder can traverse from 82 - 0 - 82 degrees when ship speed is under 6 knots, but is limited to the usual 35 - 0 - 35 degrees when over 6 knots. The rudder has a 400 hp A.C. 'flooded' electric motor (the motor windings are immersed in a 50/50 mixture of antifreeze & distilled water) housed inside the 'bomb', and has a 4-bladed fully feathering CP propeller housed in the rudder nozzle.
> The 6 power cables, three hydraulic hoses, and the antifreeze/water hose from the Pleuger unit all find their way up into the steering flat through the hollow rudder stock.
> This unit is the ship's stern thruster, and after 35 years of use is still functioning as intended. When new, the ship could do 4 -5 knots on this unit alone, running it from 2 aux. generators.
> Along with the bow thruster, the old girl is very manoeuvrable, and although now 36 years old, is still going strong (I now work on Chinese-built AHTS vessels in the offshore industry - none of them will last even half the life of the ship above!).
> 
> The 2007 photo shows the new Berg CP propeller that replaced the troublesome Stone Manganese Marine item in 2004.
> 
> The actual rotary vane unit has given little trouble - just the odd blown contactor, so you steer it with two pegs of wood or a welding rod while someone else changes the contactor. But, it is a very 'Bang Bang' operation - there is nothing smooth about the way it changes angle. Just two gear pumps and electric solenoids to control the oil flow.
> 
> Forgot to add - the first three photos I took at the guarantee docking in 1980, and the steering gear photo I took in 2010. The ship has just carried it's ten millionth tonne of bulk cement, so, Jack Reilly, ex yard manager at Robb Caledon, Dundee, in 1979 - if you are still with us and read this - well done mate!!!
> 
> When I get a little time I will upload a short video clip of a little trouble-shooting episode on the QE2's steering gear while at sea.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just wish the camera had been a HiDef model - filmed by my youngest!
> 
> Cheers
> Skilly


Jack Reilly is my dad and he would like to contact you regarding ship Golden Bay. His email address is [email protected]
Thanks
Gillian


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