# Helicopter Crash North Sea



## IAINT (Mar 31, 2008)

Just been announced on the news that a Super Puma helicopter with 18 POB on the way to a BP platform ditched close to the installation approx 120 miles east of Aberdeen. Reports that all on board are safe and well.

Iain T


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## bulwark (May 3, 2006)

Excellent news that they are all safe.
Murdo


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## Nick Balls (Apr 5, 2008)

Looks Like the "Caledonian Victory rescued 15 British MN to the rescue !!!!!!


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## gordy (Apr 18, 2008)

A job well done by all concerned(Thumb)


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## Pompeyfan (Aug 9, 2005)

Thermal imaging pictures coming through on Sky News as I type.

David


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## Ron Stringer (Mar 15, 2005)

*Standby Vessels*

In the TV reports they said that Coastguard rescue helicopters had been scrambled to go to the assistance of the survivors in the water, and eventually spoke of the men being rescued by a lifeboat from a supply vessel that happened to be nearby.

No mention of any standby vessel. Is that the usual journalistic ignorance or has the provision of standby vessels been a casualty of the run-down of the North Sea oil industry? Are they no longer a requirement?


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## portree (Dec 4, 2007)

You are quite correct Ron, i work for the RNLI and the number of times the media get it wrong when it comes to mixing up the SAR units is shocking, i guess the dudes in the water dont give a monkies who gets them, but a bit of correct press does a lot at times.


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## JimC (Nov 8, 2007)

I read this and one thing stood out - everyone was congratulating everyone else on a job well done.. and rightly so however before puting this story to bed, it should be remembered that this accident took place in ideal conditions. The aircraft was able to land on a relatively calm sea - the plight was in plain sight etc. 
Most of the time it's not like that on the North Sea. I spent over 25 years flying back and forward from all kinds of barges, ships and platforms and could count on one hand the number of times it was like that. I can remember in the early 70's when 'safety' was a word in the dictionary. I also remember the reluctance of everyone to take part in safety drills and the moans when we had to do our 'water sports' at Robert Gordon's but it has all been worth it - if not for surviving in a force 10..then at least for teaching everyone the 'drill' and turning out the kind of people who were 'in it' and all those dedicated lads and lassies who responded so magnificently. Sadly, it will happen again and again. That 'stuff' in the car or which heats your home does not give itself up easily.


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## Binnacle (Jul 22, 2005)

*Hi-Tech Boat Crucial in Rescue*

from BBC scotland :-

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/north_east/7900394.stm


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## mikeg (Aug 24, 2006)

*Pilots skill saving lives*

I take my hat off to that pilot who managed to keep his helicopter upright on landing, no mean feat (Thumb) it echoes the skill of the pilot and crew flying US Airways Flight 1549, the plane that landed in the Hudson River. (Applause)


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## Blackal (Jan 29, 2008)

I would hold back on the congratulations for the pilot until after the possibility of his dissorientation being the cause - is ruled out.

Everything I've read and heard so far - points toward "the sea coming up to meet them" on approach, with very low forward speed. Some of the passengers are being quoted as saying that they didn't realise that they were in the water, rather than on the helideck. This would indicate that there was no time for any "brace-brace-brace" warning from the flightdeck.

As to the rescue - BP's "Jigsaw" is a very high integrity safety cover system (albeit with ongoing concerns regarding the launch/recovery system for the daughter-craft).

Al


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## Ray Mac (Sep 22, 2007)

Well done to all concerned, my last ship before retirment caledonian Victory.(Thumb)


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## Coastie (Aug 24, 2005)

Binnacle said:


> from BBC scotland :-
> 
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/north_east/7900394.stm



Good to see that boats made in Holyhead are being put to good use.


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## Ray Mac (Sep 22, 2007)

Boat No 7, on C-Victory named Alastair.Launched 2006 Wear Dock & Engineering. Sunderland(Thumb) (Smoke)


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## Santos (Mar 16, 2005)

Blackal said:


> I would hold back on the congratulations for the pilot until after the possibility of his dissorientation being the cause - is ruled out.
> 
> Everything I've read and heard so far - points toward "the sea coming up to meet them" on approach, with very low forward speed. Some of the passengers are being quoted as saying that they didn't realise that they were in the water, rather than on the helideck. This would indicate that there was no time for any "brace-brace-brace" warning from the flightdeck.
> 
> ...


Bit hard on the Pilot that, he still put it down softly enough for all to be saved - thought someone was innocent until proved guilty - obviously not. Why be so quick to condem people before the facts are known. Those pilots do a good job but they are only human beings after all - the facts are he still landed gently enough that nobody was injured and all were saved - whether he was dissorientated or not, he still got it down safely - perhaps not where it should have landed - but in my book thats still a great job and he deserves recognition not condemnation or prejudgement and earns my (Applause)

Chris.


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## Lindsay Bremner (Oct 30, 2005)

Blackal said:


> I would hold back on the congratulations for the pilot until after the possibility of his dissorientation being the cause - is ruled out.
> 
> Everything I've read and heard so far - points toward "the sea coming up to meet them" on approach, with very low forward speed. Some of the passengers are being quoted as saying that they didn't realise that they were in the water, rather than on the helideck. This would indicate that there was no time for any "brace-brace-brace" warning from the flightdeck.
> 
> ...




Being an offshore worker myself, I cant for the life of me understand how anybody onboard the chopper did not realise they were in the sea rather than on the helideck, but then again I was not on that chopper. I would still give the pilot lots of praise because all 18 are still alive. None of us know what happened, and I would guess none of us fly EC225s for a living, so all we can do is second guess. In my book, I would buy the pilot a damn good nip of the good stuff and for sure I would shake his hand.


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## Lindsay Bremner (Oct 30, 2005)

Ron Stringer said:


> In the TV reports they said that Coastguard rescue helicopters had been scrambled to go to the assistance of the survivors in the water, and eventually spoke of the men being rescued by a lifeboat from a supply vessel that happened to be nearby.
> 
> No mention of any standby vessel. Is that the usual journalistic ignorance or has the provision of standby vessels been a casualty of the run-down of the North Sea oil industry? Are they no longer a requirement?


Hi Ron

It should be noted that all rigs have standby vessels 24 hours a day. It should also be noted that any supply vessel at the rig site becomes a standby vessel, so there is a very real chance that the rig had 2 standby vessels at that time. We should not forget that journalists are not sailors or offshore workers, and as such report the news as they see / hear it. The one thing that should hit home regarding this event, is that rig workers or sailors we (myself included) make our living at sea, and as such realise the dangers. I know, I live this industry and work it.

Regards
Lindsay


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## Blackal (Jan 29, 2008)

Lindsay Bremner said:


> It should also be noted that any supply vessel at the rig site becomes a standby vessel, so there is a very real chance that the rig had 2 standby vessels at that time.


This is a bit of a misleading statement, Lindsay.

In the case of the BP "Jigsaw" vessels, yes - they are dual-purpose (supply and standby vessels). 

To say that any supply vessel in the field - becomes an additional standby vessel is simply not true.

Al


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## Binnacle (Jul 22, 2005)

Burned Toast said:


> Well done to all concerned, my last ship before retirment caledonian Victory.(Thumb)


A brief TV news picture showed the ship and master. I was rather puzzled as he was in full uniform adorned with five ? medals hanging from his chest. Any idea what the medals are all about ?.


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## duquesa (Aug 31, 2006)

The reporter on GMTV did the usual thing : She managed to get in a plunge and a plummet in the first sentence.


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## Ray Mac (Sep 22, 2007)

Never wore uniforms when I was on board Joined in the yard in Yantia and retired from the vessel, Master was ex fisherman and coastal tankers? No idea on the medal issue(H)


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## Ron Stringer (Mar 15, 2005)

Lindsay Bremner said:


> Hi Ron
> 
> It should be noted that all rigs have standby vessels 24 hours a day.


Well that used to be the situation when I was working but as I have been retired since 2002 I wondered if things had been relaxed with the run-down of North Sea production. By the way, there were special radio (and other) requirements for standby vessels, over and above any requirements for supply vessels, so at least in my time, not just 'any supply vessel' would be acceptable (or qualify for recognition) as a standby vessel.


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## Blackal (Jan 29, 2008)

Ron Stringer said:


> Well that used to be the situation when I was working but as I have been retired since 2002 I wondered if things had been relaxed with the run-down of North Sea production. By the way, there were special radio (and other) requirements for standby vessels, over and above any requirements for supply vessels, so at least in my time, not just 'any supply vessel' would be acceptable (or qualify for recognition) as a standby vessel.


 
Guidelines can be found here:

http://www.marinesafetyforum.org/upload-files/guidelines/ves05-errv-survey-guidelines-issue-5.pdf

Al(Thumb)


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## gordy (Apr 18, 2008)

When I left the North Sea in 2003, not all fixed production installations had their own stand by ships.
As a money saving exercise one ship was assigned to more than one installation, much against the wishes of those on board.

When I was on supply ships we took over stand by duties on quite a few cases when the stand by ship developed problems. I think the longest period was 10 days. How the regulations were adhered to I cannot say as I was E/R. This was between 76-78.


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## forthbridge (Jun 28, 2007)

Blackal said:


> I would hold back on the congratulations for the pilot until after the possibility of his dissorientation being the cause - is ruled out.
> 
> Everything I've read and heard so far - points toward "the sea coming up to meet them" on approach, with very low forward speed. Some of the passengers are being quoted as saying that they didn't realise that they were in the water, rather than on the helideck. This would indicate that there was no time for any "brace-brace-brace" warning from the flightdeck.
> 
> ...


I think the thing that worries me is the tail being missing. Together with the fact that there were two helidecks at different levels one on the jack up and one on the platform. I wonder if the lower level was the one in use and if during the approach in fog the tail hit the higher level. I seem to remember that something like that happened on another installation about 20 years ago. In any case the pilot did well to put it down safely.


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## Lindsay Bremner (Oct 30, 2005)

As I recall, the radio op on a production platform told me, any vessel that was on station i.e. (in the field) became a standby vessel when it was stood off. Now I am not a sailor, I can only go by what I am told. but the board in the control room stated 2 standby vessels, 1 was the standby vessel and the other was the supply vessel.


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## Lindsay Bremner (Oct 30, 2005)

forthbridge said:


> I think the thing that worries me is the tail being missing. Together with the fact that there were two helidecks at different levels one on the jack up and one on the platform. I wonder if the lower level was the one in use and if during the approach in fog the tail hit the higher level. I seem to remember that something like that happened on another installation about 20 years ago. In any case the pilot did well to put it down safely.



Well the thing that hits me here is, these pilots fly to these platforms on a regular basis, they land on these platforms more times that the core crew of said platforms. It's just my opinion but I really dont think the flight crew made a mistake, I really do feel that something went wrong very quickly and as a result the crew had no time to shout brace brace brace. My thinking behind that point is, the switch for the PA system on the chopper is located between the pilots and to the rear of the control panel, the pilot has to look behind him to locate the switch. It's just my opinion but whatever went wrong happened so quickly that the crew did not have time to react to anything other than landing the aircraft. This is just my humble opinion, I have not heard anything different from you chaps.


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## Blackal (Jan 29, 2008)

Lindsay Bremner said:


> As I recall, the radio op on a production platform told me, any vessel that was on station i.e. (in the field) became a standby vessel when it was stood off. Now I am not a sailor, I can only go by what I am told. but the board in the control room stated 2 standby vessels, 1 was the standby vessel and the other was the supply vessel.


A supply vessel has none of the equipment to allow it to function as a standby vessel ("standby vessel" being the term given to the HSE requirement for such a vessel). If it is in the area, and can perform any function - all very good, but have a look through the photos in this site's gallery - most only have liferafts to cater for their own emergencies, never mind anyone elses.

As to the possibility that something went wrong with the aircraft (striking the platform etc) - the complete unawareness of the passengers to difficulties is extremely strange. You will recall that the passengers are always wakened 5 minutes out from the platform, and asked to check their seat restaints etc - I've never seen any passenger fall asleep in the subsequent 5 minutes.

Al


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## Lindsay Bremner (Oct 30, 2005)

Blackal said:


> A supply vessel has none of the equipment to allow it to function as a standby vessel ("standby vessel" being the term given to the HSE requirement for such a vessel). If it is in the area, and can perform any function - all very good, but have a look through the photos in this site's gallery - most only have liferafts to cater for their own emergencies, never mind anyone elses.
> 
> As to the possibility that something went wrong with the aircraft (striking the platform etc) - the complete unawareness of the passengers to difficulties is extremely strange. You will recall that the passengers are always wakened 5 minutes out from the platform, and asked to check their seat restaints etc - I've never seen any passenger fall asleep in the subsequent 5 minutes.
> 
> Al


Hi AL

My use of the word “Standby” seems to be causing an issue here. The point I am making is not that a supply ship is a standby vessel, I am well aware that these are 2 different ships with 2 different purposes. 

Now in the case of an emergency any ship in the field will react to the incident because they carry fast rescue craft (FRC) they don’t just have life rafts for there own use. As I said in my earlier post, I am not a sailor, but I have had to go by supply vessel to the rig on 6 occasions and every supply ship I was on had an FRC. The point I am making here is that all ships have the ability to rescue people.

I followed your advice and looked in the gallery and noticed FRCs on all the supply ships I looked at, it should be noted that I did not look at every single photo in the gallery.

Regards
Lindsay


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## Blackal (Jan 29, 2008)

Hey Lindsey,

Thought I better have a trawl through the pics myself (and discovered there are far fewer pics than I had imagined).

I have to admit to getting caught up in the absolute definition of a Standby Vessel. Supply vessels *will* have an MOB boat as standard (man overboard), but this is not classed as an FRC. They may, in addition have an FRC.

A very quick check of a photograph can tell you immediately if a vessel is *not* a Standby Vessel - 

If there is no Helecopter winching area marked out (usually - a 5m solid yellow circle) on a clear deck area - it is definately not a standby vessel. That said - some Supply vessels may have that circle marked.

(Hell! I'm getting myself confused now (EEK) )

Cheers

Al


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## Lindsay Bremner (Oct 30, 2005)

Blackal said:


> Hey Lindsey,
> 
> Thought I better have a trawl through the pics myself (and discovered there are far fewer pics than I had imagined).
> 
> ...



Hi Al

As I said in my last post the confusion is coming from MY use of the term "Standby" and not your interpretation of it.
Regards
Lindsay

P.S. Have a tot on me. (Thumb)


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## Nick Balls (Apr 5, 2008)

Prior to the Piper Alpha disaster many supply boats were marketed as having Standby capability. The requirements on the owners at this point to comply being pretty straight forward. Much stricter requirements after this, along with the diverging requirements of the two types of vessels meant that the vast majority of supply vessels after this date do not have " Standby capability" 
The boat normally carried by a supply vessel is classified as a " Rescue boat" it is not a lifeboat ,nor a fast rescue craft. These boats are normally of a similar construction (Rigid Inflatable Bottom RIB) but are much smaller in size and have much reduced horsepower in comparison to the standby boats FRC. Launching capability is also much reduced. 
As in the long traditions of the Merchant Service we are legally bound to go to the assistance of any distressed persons at sea and will deploy whatever equipment is available to us in any conditions.


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## Ron Stringer (Mar 15, 2005)

Can anyone shed any light on whether or not there was a standby vessel on the scene (as opposed to the 'nearby supply vessels' reported as having assisted in the rescue) when the helicopter crash-landed?


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## Blackal (Jan 29, 2008)

The Caledonian Victory was there - one of the BP Jigsaw vessels.

They do cargo runs out of Aberdeen, and once on station (having discharged cargo) - take the place of the existing vessel, which returns to Aberdeen with backloads. They are fully-fledged Standby vessels, with large "daughter-craft" to cover an entire field.

Al


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## Ron Stringer (Mar 15, 2005)

Thank you for that, Blackal.


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## Nick Balls (Apr 5, 2008)

Strictly speaking the 3 Caledonian vessels are referred to as "Regional Support Vessels" and carry specialist large Rescue vessels on them which can be operated entirely independently from the mother Ship itself. A lot bigger than the original daughter craft concept used in the southern North Sea. These are the latest development of the original "Standby boat" concept. A far cry from the old days. 
I was sorry that not more understanding of this was shown by the press or others in the offshore game.
A lot of people have worked very hard since the introduction of this new concept in offshore safety. successful implementation of this system has not been without criticism. Merchant Navy personnel who man these ships are also extremely experienced and highly qualified. A fact that is not reflected in the remuneration for the job.


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## IAINT (Mar 31, 2008)

The tail rotor of the ditched chopper has now been found and on its way in to Aberdeen, should arrive sometime this evening.

Iain T


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## Blackal (Jan 29, 2008)

Nick Balls said:


> Strictly speaking the 3 Caledonian vessels are referred to as "Regional Support Vessels" and carry specialist large Rescue vessels on them which can be operated entirely independently from the mother Ship itself. A lot bigger than the original daughter craft concept used in the southern North Sea. These are the latest development of the original "Standby boat" concept. A far cry from the old days.
> I was sorry that not more understanding of this was shown by the press or others in the offshore game.
> A lot of people have worked very hard since the introduction of this new concept in offshore safety. successful implementation of this system has not been without criticism. Merchant Navy personnel who man these ships are also extremely experienced and highly qualified. A fact that is not reflected in the remuneration for the job.


While I am an overall suporter of the BP Jigsaw regime - it appears that the Mother Ship was 3 miles away from the Etap, so the daughter craft took several minutes to arrive on-scene. In this instance (benign conditions, personnel fully enclosed in immersion suits/layered underclothes, stepped straight from helicopter to raft - the delay was not critical, but ...... I feel that the preparedness is not as good as having resources on location.

Admittedly - the daughtercraft arrived in very quick time - possibly equal to the deployment of an FRC from a dedicated Standby vessel at say - a remote drilling rig - but a Standby Vessel, on close standby for helicopter operations in this instance, I feel - would have been on top of the situation instantly.

I believe the tail module of the helicopter was discovered on the seabed 700m out from the platform - dispelling any notion that the aircraft struck the main installation or that it was lost mid-flight.

Al


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## Ray Mac (Sep 22, 2007)

Post 36 = 4 C- Boats, Vanguard - Victory -Vision - Vigilance.


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## JimC (Nov 8, 2007)

"A far cry from the old days " indeed. I remember when a 'stand-by' or 'safety' boat was merely a Fraserburgh trawler which sat on station near the barge or platform for weeks on end without relief. In the northern areas, the seas dwarfed these tiny wee boats. They very often disappeared from sight in the troughs. Things have certainly progressed since then.
I even remember giving permission for such avessel to divert to Lerwick so the mate could get his artificial leg seen-to. he fell overboard from the RIB trying to negotiate the surf round Fair Isle. (A trawler had run aground in a storm).
Happy days?


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## RayJordandpo (Feb 23, 2006)

Personally I think the standby vessels were always taken for granted and never really treated with the respect they deserved. I'm talking in the past tense here as I'm not familiar with the up to date 'Jigsaw' and 'daughter craft' methods. Some years ago I was on a drlling rig West of Shetlands. The weather was atrocious with gale force winds and a very high swell, the standy by vessel skipper warned our OIM that due to the adverse weather he could not provide close in cover or launch his FRC if we land a helicopter. It was crew change day on the rig and as the OIM was due off nothing was going to interfere with heli-ops. I believe that skipper was put in a very difficult and unfair position. Would he have launched his rescue craft if there had been an accident? and maybe putting the lives of his own crew in danger, I rather think he would have. We all want to go on leave but I believe that stand by boat skipper was unnecessarily put in a no win situation


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## Blackal (Jan 29, 2008)

Still no official statement from the companies involved................

One of the pilots' websites is well-populated with posts by NS pilots saying that they are getting inundated with queries from passengers - and have nothing to tell them.

I'm sticking with my original prediction.

Al


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