# Did you ever work ship-to-air using WT?



## Worldspan (Jan 2, 2012)

Some friends on my AEO course at RAF Hullavington were posted to Coastal Command and I'm sure they must have worked ships from their Shackletons. However, I don't know how this was done. On the V-Force our standard equipment was the STR18 - a CW / AM transceiver but I don't remember whether this covered 500 kc/s. I think that 'Orontes' (GBXM) had a small VHF transceiver ... perhaps hand-held ... for use when coming into port. This was kept on the bridge and there was no VHF in the radio room.

How about in the early days, when aircraft used WT and carried R/Os? Did the aircraft equipment cover the marine MF band? Did QSOs take place in mid-Atlantic?

W


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## djringjr (Feb 11, 2008)

I don't know about military aircraft, but commercial transport aircraft kept watch on 500 kc/s (kHz) while over water. I knew several flight radio officers who worked until the 1950s for Pan-Am and Seaboard, World Airlines (now FedEx Airlines), Francis Allan Chapman, wrote the book "Talking to the World from Pan Am's Clippers", Carstens Publications, Inc.1991 who told me this. They are both deceased. They had 500 kc/s (kHz) but they didn't know if they had different working frequencies than ships; their communications usually took place on the 3105, 6210 kHz, and other HF radiotelegraph frequencies allocated to aircraft.


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## Worldspan (Jan 2, 2012)

Thanks for your reply ... the frequency 6210 rings a bell and I suppose I recall it from my training.
All noted about aircraft keeping watch on 500 kc/s when over water.
I do remember that before I went to Norwood, my father and I did the rounds of some private colleges in and around London.
One of these said that they also trained people as Flight R/Os ... in the corner of a room was an TR 1154/1155 combination, which I recognised from the shops in Lisle Street. 
I believe that some Flight R/Os were still working in the late 1950s ... can anyone give chapter and verse? 
In films, the American Flight R/Os were sometimes shown wearing their headphones over the top of their uniform caps! Did they really do this?
We would often fly over the Atlantic en route to Goose Bay and thence to Offut, Nebraska ... but no question of monitoring 500 kc/s.
As I said before, I don't remember whether the STR18 could go down to 500 ... anyway it was crystal controlled. The Vulcan had a cavity HF aerial in the base of the tail fin. I once worked Bomber Command from the ground at Offut but can't remember on which band.
I checked out the book that you mention ... it's pretty expensive now.
W


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## Ron Stringer (Mar 15, 2005)

A lovely guy, Herb Blaker, was a US delegate to CCIR/ITU meetings back in the 1970s/80s. Earlier in his life he had been an R/0 on the PanAm Clipper seaplanes, including on the Hawaii flights. When I knew him he was long-retired and raising horses in Virginia.


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## gwzm (Nov 7, 2005)

Luckily I never had to use it, but our lifeboat transmitters in the 60s had 500kc/s for emergency communication with rescue ships and 8364kc/s for emergency communication with aircraft.
Happy days
gwzm


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## trotterdotpom (Apr 29, 2005)

gwzm said:


> Luckily I never had to use it, but our lifeboat transmitters in the 60s had 500kc/s for emergency communication with rescue ships and 8364kc/s for emergency communication with aircraft.
> Happy days
> gwzm


I think aircraft ROs were long gone by my time but I'm pretty sure that that 8364 kc/s frequency was also selected because it was in the middle of the 8mc/s calling band and coast station ROs would pass it when they were scanning for ships calling them.

John T


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## Troppo (Feb 18, 2010)

trotterdotpom said:


> I think aircraft ROs were long gone by my time but I'm pretty sure that that 8364 kc/s frequency was also selected because it was in the middle of the 8mc/s calling band and coast station ROs would pass it when they were scanning for ships calling them.
> 
> John T


Yep - it was the common calling channel on 8 MHz.


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## Troppo (Feb 18, 2010)

Not CW, but I worked a Cathay Pacific DC10 on 10MHz SSB after a particularly boozy night up the road in Honkers with the pilots...

Would quite often QSO P3 Orions on Ch 16 when they wanted to use us for interception (or something) practice....the mates and I were always amused by the P3's antics - free air show.


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## gwzm (Nov 7, 2005)

Troppo said:


> Yep - it was the common calling channel on 8 MHz.


Just had a look in the PMG h/b, 1961 edition ‘cos I was curious. Section 84: “The centre frequency channel in each ship calling band is not normally assigned to ship stations but is reserved for the use of aircraft desiring to communicate with stations of the maritime mobile service; the centre frequency channel of the 8000 kc/s ship calling band (viz. 8,364 kc/s) is additionally designated for use by survival craft for search and rescue communications.”
As an aside: On one occasion on the SS Mahronda/GDNB, I put the L/B set in a lifeboat and tried calling Colombo Radio/4PB whilst the Ch.Off and 2/0 wound the handles and the lascars rowed us around the harbour. No reply from 4PB but the ship heard us fine.
Happy days
gwzm


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## BobRyder (Feb 10, 2016)

Early 1960's I had the pleasure (?) of accepting a few CW messages from 4YA, Ocean Station Alpha, while on radio watch aboard the USCG seaplane NC1280. Before I could forward them through normal channels, we landed at Washington National Airport, and my Captain was kind enough to take them to the WANAP radio shack for forwarding.


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## Captain Moki (Jul 12, 2021)

Worldspan said:


> Some friends on my AEO course at RAF Hullavington were posted to Coastal Command and I'm sure they must have worked ships from their Shackletons. However, I don't know how this was done. On the V-Force our standard equipment was the STR18 - a CW / AM transceiver but I don't remember whether this covered 500 kc/s. I think that 'Orontes' (GBXM) had a small VHF transceiver ... perhaps hand-held ... for use when coming into port. This was kept on the bridge and there was no VHF in the radio room.
> 
> How about in the early days, when aircraft used WT and carried R/Os? Did the aircraft equipment cover the marine MF band? Did QSOs take place in mid-Atlantic?
> 
> W


I have worked ship to air when in distress in Antarctic. In my research vessel after being advised by Marine department that a plane would arrive and direct me to the nearest vessel. AS I had been involved in the distress procedures. I would advise that everything went according to plan even though the vessel we went to was Russian. I was pleased to see the international procedures went smoothly and my crew boarding that vessel needed no communication other that the international procedures laid down by International authorities.The rest of my crew proceede home and was shadowed by the russian veselto home base and I appreciated warmly thsi gesture and met the Captain and chief officer in Port. They were top seamen. Ken Middleton


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## majoco (Oct 15, 2008)

When I was starting my final year at grammar school in 1961 and showing a great interest in radio and short waves in particular, my Dad suggested that I might like to train as an aircraft radio operator. I sort of nodded in agreement and as he was working for MWT in New Street, Chelmsford he arranged a meeting with someone up the road at MIMCo. When he came home I was all excitement but hopes were dashed when he said the Flight Radio Officers were on the way out as the new aircraft were being fitted with HF SSB radios controlled from the flight deck. BUT he said "how would you like to go to sea as a radio officer" so my career was sealed for the next ten years or so......


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## holland25 (Nov 21, 2007)

I was on one of the Ocean Stations, either 4YJ or 4YI, at Christmas 1969. A Shackleton from Pitrivie (?) flew out with Christmas goodies. I believe the initial contact, 
when they took off, was on HF W/T. I think it took about 15 hours before they arrived at our position.


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## trotterdotpom (Apr 29, 2005)

Captain Moki said:


> I have worked ship to air when in distress in Antarctic. In my research vessel after being advised by Marine department that a plane would arrive and direct me to the nearest vessel. AS I had been involved in the distress procedures. I would advise that everything went according to plan even though the vessel we went to was Russian. I was pleased to see the international procedures went smoothly and my crew boarding that vessel needed no communication other that the international procedures laid down by International authorities.The rest of my crew proceede home and was shadowed by the russian veselto home base and I appreciated warmly thsi gesture and met the Captain and chief officer in Port. They were top seamen. Ken Middleton


Hello Ken, I sailed with a Ken Middleton on ANL's "Australian Trader", was that you?

John T


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## gwzm (Nov 7, 2005)

In regard to ship - aircraft communication on W/T: Has anyone heard or used QUQ? for real ( Shall I train my searchlight nearly vertical on a cloud, occulting if possible and, if your aircraft is seen, deflect the beam upwind and on the water(or land) to facilitate your landing?)
Happy days,
gwzm


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## Captain Moki (Jul 12, 2021)

trotterdotpom said:


> Hello Ken, I sailed with a Ken Middleton on ANL's "Australian Trader", was that you?
> 
> John T


Hi John Yes it is me and would appreciate your contact. My email address is '[email protected]' Ken!


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## Captain Moki (Jul 12, 2021)

trotterdotpom said:


> Hello Ken, I sailed with a Ken Middleton on ANL's "Australian Trader", was that you?
> 
> John T


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## brianwholmes (Jan 14, 2022)

Worldspan said:


> Some friends on my AEO course at RAF Hullavington were posted to Coastal Command and I'm sure they must have worked ships from their Shackletons. However, I don't know how this was done. On the V-Force our standard equipment was the STR18 - a CW / AM transceiver but I don't remember whether this covered 500 kc/s. I think that 'Orontes' (GBXM) had a small VHF transceiver ... perhaps hand-held ... for use when coming into port. This was kept on the bridge and there was no VHF in the radio room.
> 
> How about in the early days, when aircraft used WT and carried R/Os? Did the aircraft equipment cover the marine MF band? Did QSOs take place in mid-Atlantic?
> 
> W


Radio on Shackletons was also STR18 so comms on MF not possible. Can't recall ever communicating with a merchant ship on HF


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