# Spain sues over shipwreck bonanza (BBC News)



## SN NewsCaster (Mar 5, 2007)

Spain launches legal action against US marine explorers over a wreck they have found laden with treasure.

More from BBC News...


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## Keltic Star (Jan 21, 2006)

How ironic, the Spaniards suing for gold they plundered, stole and killed for from the Americas. Glad to see they are more civilzed these days and limit their thievery to other nations fish.


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## janathull (Aug 31, 2005)

Seems like sour grapes to me, if they wanted the bullion why didnt they dive for it. janathull


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## Split (Jun 25, 2006)

Come on, leave the Spaniards alone! Every Western country has stolen from the undeveloped world and are still doing it. The British call it commerce. That's a laugh!. If that gold is in Spanish waters, it is Spanish and that is that.

On a report I heard about this, in the beginning, the company said that it was near the Cornish coast and yet the the salvage tug operated out of Gibraltar. It seems to me that the company knew what it was doing from the beginning.

Why protect it? I haven't any shares in it---do you?

Split


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## billyboy (Jul 6, 2005)

to my way of thinking. the whole world had the chance to locate and dive for that treasure. But, they didnt. Somebody in Spain must have known about it. why didnt they shout about it earlier. sounds like a case of "let someone else find then we'll claim it" to me.
our ocean floor is littered with wrecks from a bygone age laden with goodies.
It only takes a bit of technology and know how plus an absolute fortune in ready cash to find it.
Be interesting to learn the exact location of it. wonder if it's outside the spanish limits???


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## Split (Jun 25, 2006)

billyboy said:


> to my way of thinking. the whole world had the chance to locate and dive for that treasure. But, they didnt. Somebody in Spain must have known about it. why didnt they shout about it earlier. sounds like a case of "let someone else find then we'll claim it" to me.
> our ocean floor is littered with wrecks from a bygone age laden with goodies.
> It only takes a bit of technology and know how plus an absolute fortune in ready cash to find it.
> Be interesting to learn the exact location of it. wonder if it's outside the spanish limits???


This is a new form of looting. High technology can beat everything and, as usual, this puts the Americans ahead. It does not matter how long it is there, it now belongs to the country who owns that part of the shelf. That was the agreement reached but, as usual, some countries only accept things when it suits them to. If that was not accepted, the British would have had the Americans drilling in the North Sea. Or is mineral wealth not included?

To make the subject more nautical and less political. has anyone read "Ship of Gold" by Gary Kinder? Don't pass it up if you get a chance to read it. It will show how hi-tech finds treasure on the sea bed and is fascinating.

Split


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## billyboy (Jul 6, 2005)

Split. Thanks for that tip. I will try to locate a copy. sounds real interesting.


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## Split (Jun 25, 2006)

Hi Billyboy,

Here's a link to what it's about.

http://www.randomhouse.com/features/shipofgold/excerpt-search.html


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## SN NewsCaster (Mar 5, 2007)

*Spain targets US treasure ships (BBC News)*

A Spanish court orders the capture of two US boats if they leave Gibraltar, amid a row over shipwreck treasure.

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## SeaStoryWriter (Dec 31, 2006)

If we follow the logic that a wreck off Cornwall belongs to Spain, then what about all the wrecks off of Florida? Imagine Mel Fisher and the U.S. Gov't might have something to say about that idea. WILL


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## Split (Jun 25, 2006)

SeaStoryWriter said:


> If we follow the logic that a wreck off Cornwall belongs to Spain, then what about all the wrecks off of Florida? Imagine Mel Fisher and the U.S. Gov't might have something to say about that idea. WILL


I had the impression that the salvage company said that they had found it off Cornwall, not that it was, actually, there. It was one of the first news items to come out on the subject and I can't find it now. In my opinion the position of the wreck will decide the legal ownership of it. Maybe the Irish and Portuguese will lay claim to it--- we might as well give them something to talk about in Brussels! The British haven't said anything, yet, so I suspect that they know that it is in Spanish waters.

Split


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## Gavin Gait (Aug 14, 2005)

Something thats been forgotten is that the salvage company claimed it was a sunken Royal Navy vessel they salvaged the coins from. I thought that ALL RN ships that sunk with loss of life were classified as graves and it was illegal to dive on them let alone do any salvage work without written permission from the Secretary of State for Defence. Not only that the coins were secreted out of the area either thru the UK or more likely Gibraltar without being declared to anyone which is illegal. In the UK you would have to declare it to the reciever of wrecks and hand it over until its fate was decided and I would think it was the same in Gib.

Am I barking up the wrong tree if so can someone point me in the right direction lol [=P] (Thumb)


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## mark m (Jan 27, 2007)

(Thumb) Woof Woof i think your right Davie lol (Jester)


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## Split (Jun 25, 2006)

Davie Tait said:


> Something thats been forgotten is that the salvage company claimed it was a sunken Royal Navy vessel they salvaged the coins from. I thought that ALL RN ships that sunk with loss of life were classified as graves and it was illegal to dive on them let alone do any salvage work without written permission from the Secretary of State for Defence. Not only that the coins were secreted out of the area either thru the UK or more likely Gibraltar without being declared to anyone which is illegal. In the UK you would have to declare it to the reciever of wrecks and hand it over until its fate was decided and I would think it was the same in Gib.
> 
> Am I barking up the wrong tree if so can someone point me in the right direction lol [=P] (Thumb)


Can the illegality of diving for it be backed up if the ship is outside British waters? It could if it is an agreement between friendly nations, perhaps, but what about a British ship in Spanish waters?


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## Gavin Gait (Aug 14, 2005)

Its world wide for the ban on diving on sunken RN vessels considered grave sites. As far as I know the only reason the Mary Rose was lifted was to deepen the approaches to port and thats the only reason anyone was allowed to dive on her. Ships that sunk regardless of date with loss of life should be considered grave sites and permission sought before diving let alone any recovery work done in my opinion.

Just my opinion tho i'm not sure about the exact legallity of it tho.

Davie(Thumb)


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## UmbornePirate (Feb 3, 2007)

*Legality of Diving Bans*



Davie Tait said:


> Its world wide for the ban on diving on sunken RN vessels considered grave sites. As far as I know the only reason the Mary Rose was lifted was to deepen the approaches to port and thats the only reason anyone was allowed to dive on her. Ships that sunk regardless of date with loss of life should be considered grave sites and permission sought before diving let alone any recovery work done in my opinion.
> 
> Just my opinion tho i'm not sure about the exact legallity of it tho.
> 
> Davie(Thumb)


Davie

Sadly I think the legal postion is a still a long way from the ideals you and I would like to see. An unofficial summary of the concerns expressed in 2000 that gives a good idea of the problem is here and it does not make encouraging reading. 

The matter was raised in Parliament in 2001 here and this is not encouraging either. 

I have not heard of any significant progress since then, and as it identified that it would require UNESCO to produce legislation which all nations would have to ratify, my experience of international agreements tells me not to be too surprised at this. I would be delighted to hear if anyone can show I'm wrong on this and give news of international progress on this subject.

All the best

Pirate


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## Gavin Gait (Aug 14, 2005)

Thanks for that pirate as I said in my initial posting I wasn't sure how legal my thoughts were. I do know that the wrecks of the Repulse and Prince of Wales have been attacked by scrap metal companies ( the last I heard the Prince of Wales had only 1 propellor left the others having been blasted off with TNT and salvaged for their valuable bronze ).

I still think the salvors broke the law as far as declaring their finds to the Receiver of Wrecks in either the UK or Gib.

Davie(Thumb)


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## SN NewsCaster (Mar 5, 2007)

*Spain seizes ship in treasure row (BBC News)*

Spain's Civil Guard seizes a boat operated by a US company amid a row over treasure from a shipwreck.

More from BBC News...


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## Coastie (Aug 24, 2005)

Looks like I'm off to Cornwall for my holidays this year!!


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## Keltic Star (Jan 21, 2006)

First the Spaniards steal gold from the America's, then they seize a ship in international waters. Obviously things haven't changed. 
Thought the Brit's beat them at Trafalgar. 
Another cocksure third world nation accorded rights through membership in that clusterf--k known as the EU. Other than olive oil, what can they offer the world?


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## Paul UK (Jun 13, 2005)

Keltic Star said:


> First the Spaniards steal gold from the America's, then they seize a ship in international waters. Obviously things haven't changed.
> Thought the Brit's beat them at Trafalgar.
> Another cocksure third world nation accorded rights through membership in that clusterf--k known as the EU. Other than olive oil, what can they offer the world?


What else can than offer the world Lower fish stocks!!

Paul


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## fred henderson (Jun 13, 2005)

Gentlemen

Reading the BBC reports the true situation is far from clear and it is the subject of a court case. The salvage company seems to be acting in a very obstructive manner, which naturally arouses suspicion. As I understand things anyone acting illegally can be arrested on the high seas. Drug runners, for example can be arrested in international waters. The Spanish case seems to be that the salvage company was acting illegally, so the coastguard action is appropriate. 
Under normal international law the company has no right to keep the salvage, only a right to payment for their services in recovering the goods. (Remember the BMW motorbikes on the beach earlier this year?) The company has apparently flown the treasure from Gibraltar to the US because there is a possibility that they may get a more favourable judgement there.
The treasure is said to be worth $500, but there will not be much left after the US lawyers have had their fees out of the case!
In any event, there is absolutely no justification for an OTT Canadian rant about the EEC and its member states. We Europeans can manage that ourselves and have no need of outside assistance, thank you!

Fred


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## PollY Anna (Sep 4, 2006)

Steady guys lets not make this personal 

Ron


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## benjidog (Oct 27, 2005)

Keltic Star said:


> First the Spaniards steal gold from the America's, then they seize a ship in international waters. Obviously things haven't changed.
> Thought the Brit's beat them at Trafalgar.
> Another cocksure third world nation accorded rights through membership in that clusterf--k known as the EU. Other than olive oil, what can they offer the world?


Keltic,

I think your first point about stealing gold from the Americas is valid though a few hundred years out of date. Not sure what our success at Trafalgar 202 years ago has to do with this case either really.

I take it from your last sentence that you are less than enthusiastic about the European Union as well. A lot of us who live here actually find some advantages in it as evidenced by the number of UK people with homes in Spain and France (also beaten at Trafalgar of course!). And of course the EU laws protect us all from bent bananas and suchlike. (Jester) 

As to "what have the Spaniards ever done for us" question....

Apart from elegant building design, art, music, food, literature, science ... I guess not a lot.

Regards,

Brian


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## billyboy (Jul 6, 2005)

missed out the slow agonising death they cause to bulls there Brian...LOL
And of course their country is filled with the excrement from the aforesaid bulls...LOL


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## Keltic Star (Jan 21, 2006)

fred henderson said:


> Gentlemen
> 
> Reading the BBC reports the true situation is far from clear and it is the subject of a court case. The salvage company seems to be acting in a very obstructive manner, which naturally arouses suspicion. As I understand things anyone acting illegally can be arrested on the high seas. Drug runners, for example can be arrested in international waters. The Spanish case seems to be that the salvage company was acting illegally, so the coastguard action is appropriate.
> Under normal international law the company has no right to keep the salvage, only a right to payment for their services in recovering the goods. (Remember the BMW motorbikes on the beach earlier this year?) The company has apparently flown the treasure from Gibraltar to the US because there is a possibility that they may get a more favourable judgement there.
> ...


My comments were my opinion, I did not bring Canada into the picture but for the record, the Spanish are one of the biggest plunderers of the Canadian Continental Shelf. It costs a fortune to have our Navy chasing their floating vacuum cleaners away.

The laws of treasure trove apply equally this side of the Atlantic. Flying the treasure to the States at least gets it back on the right continent although I agree very little will flow back to the rightful owners after the lawyers get paid but for once it pleases me to see lawyers pocket the money rather than the original thieves. 

As far as nationality goes, have no idea what "OTT" refers to but I happen to have dual citizenship, have property in the UK, have a company in the UK and pay taxes there, I also have a British passport, unfortunately it's a red Mickey Mouse European Community one, hardly a do***ent to instill national pride. No I am not European, never will be, I'm British, thank you.


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## Ron Stringer (Mar 15, 2005)

Must check my PC. I thought I logged on to Ships Nostalgia this morning but seem to have connected with Xenophobia Central.


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## SN NewsCaster (Mar 5, 2007)

*Spain releases treasure-hunt ship (BBC News)*

A US ship held by Spanish police investigating a mysterious treasure haul is cleared to leave.

More from BBC News...


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## SN NewsCaster (Mar 5, 2007)

*US treasure ship captain is freed (BBC News)*

The US captain of a boat seized by a Spanish warship this week in a row over shipwreck treasure is released.

More from BBC News...


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## SN NewsCaster (Mar 5, 2007)

*Treasure ship leaves Spanish port (BBC News)*

A US treasure-hunting boat is allowed to leave Algeciras port in Spain following a dispute with authorities.

More from BBC News...


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## Gavin Gait (Aug 14, 2005)

Spain claims shipwreck treasure ( BBC )

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7390424.stm


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## James MacDonald (Mar 17, 2006)

Lots of Canadians on British ships these days getting their sea time over here. Spain is still waiting for compensation from the oil leak from the ill fated New Flame which sunk off Gibraltar causing considerable damage to the beautiful playas of Algeciras Bay. Dont hear much incoming about that.


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