# Russian Allied Arctic Convoys



## Radiorepairman (Mar 13, 2018)

Hi. I hope that I have come to the correct section to ask this one question?
My late father once worked on the Russian Allied Arctic Convoys as a telegraphist (Morse Code). His dispatch number was R279925 from what I discovered. We eventually received his medal "Arctic Star" from the U.K recently, but it would be great if the Russian side issued their medal in appreciation of his hard graft. A letter to the Embassy brought a reply that this was not issued posthumously (quite unfair). My argument is "If you were in this terrible journey, then you should receive the recognition for it"
There have been various acknowledgements recently in Yorkshire for this medal (the Russian authorities issuing the medal to the families of the former veterans). I asked about this and was informed that the authorities would issue it if details of the convoy and ships were known.
He died in a terrible state in December 1979 aged 53 years, so he would not have known if he had been eligible for any recognition.
I know it will be difficult now to receive it due to the recent problems.
What convoy did my father actually escort to Russia and the names of the ships in the convoy, is there any way of finding this out without spending great amounts of money on research.
Can anyone point me in the right direction, please? It would be interesting to know.
Cheers


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## Hugh MacLean (Nov 18, 2005)

Hi,

I presume the files I have linked to refer to the correct man.
There is a way to find out his ships if you do not have his Discharge Book. You can obtain his CRS 10 - service record from Jan, 1941- if it has survived, from the National Archives, Kew. The file should be held in piece *BT 382/813* 

His Seaman's Pouch is held at Kew in piece *BT 372/570/99*
He also has a medal file in *BT 395/1/45329
*
Only the medal file can be downloaded the rest is best obtained by a visit to Kew or via a researcher.

When you know his ships you can then find out which convoys he was on fairly easily.

I hope that is of some help. Any questions please feel free to ask.

Regards
Hugh


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## Roger Griffiths (Feb 10, 2006)

Hello,
You wrote 
I know it will be difficult now to receive it due to the recent problems.

I don't think even Vladimir Putin would stand in the way on this issue.
More than 3,000 sailors and merchant seamen lost their lives on the convoys to deliver essential supplies and military hardware to the Soviet Union. 
Everyone who served in the Arctic convoys are still held in very high esteem by the Russian people.
Pity you did not post a couple of days earlier. I was at the National Archive on Thursday and would have obtained the do***ents for you. If you can wait 6 weeks or so, I will be visiting again or I can give you details of a good researcher who's charges are very reasonable.
Like Hugh said Feel free to ask.

regards
Roger


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## Radiorepairman (Mar 13, 2018)

Hello Hugh and Roger.
Many thanks for your replies (most helpful). Yes Roger I could wait for the time you stated when you visit the National Archives at Kew and refer me to an archivist there.
He (my father) was Denis Horne. I remember him as a radio and television engineer in the 1950's and early 1960's, first working at Ferranti in Manchester then in various repair centres in Leeds. Also, I remember various remnants of ex M.N artifacts such as loose brass buttons, Morse Code tapper, two large container trunks and so forth. He was also deployed all over the globe on various missions. His favourite tipple was "Lemon Hart" rum (which you do not see anymore in the shops), so obviously he must have seen this in the West Indies.
We do not have anything of his time in the M.N anymore, after a clear out of all his stuff in 1980 after his untimely death in December 1979.
It was all a total mystery of how he became so ill! Between 1964 and 1967 his pen-ultimate job was at Orford Ness in Suffolk (he signed the Official Secrets Act of course), and I often wonder if he was affected by what his job entailed there. It took a long time to find out what that was all about with A.W.R.E research.
In addition to this, my mother (b.1932) had a talent for singing and because of this factor she was encouraged to use her talents during WWII at children's entertainment parties. She remembers singing "Tanks for Russia" with others. There were many engineering companies that built tanks for Russia because of the money from these events.
The words that I said about difficulties in obtaining such a medal is that with the Embassy now closed in London, the contact details in Russia, and who to address?

I have a photograph of my father from his time in the M.N which I could upload if you want to see it?
Regards
Mike


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## Roger Griffiths (Feb 10, 2006)

Hello again,
As far as I am aware the Russian Embassy in London is still open, albeit with less staff.
https://rusemb.org.uk/ushakov/
If you could send me a personal message around the middle of May just to jog my memory, that would be great.
Do you have your dads British medals?

regards
Roger


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## Radiorepairman (Mar 13, 2018)

Many thanks for your reply Roger.
I will send you a message in May, or perhaps you could via p.message the email contact of the researcher at the National Archives, please?
With regards to the U.K medal, I have obtained the Arctic Star a few years back. It was only one medal he was awarded from the U.K wasn't it?
Regards
Mike


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## Hugh MacLean (Nov 18, 2005)

Hi Mike,
He has a medal file at Kew as per my #2 above. From what I can work out he received at least the 1939/45 Star The Atlantic Star and Clasp and the War Medal. This file will not show the recently awarded Arctic Star.

Regards
Hugh


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## Roger Griffiths (Feb 10, 2006)

Hello Mike, 
If you contact my researcher, have sent you a PM, Then there is no point in waiting till May when I next visit. He can start the ball rolling straight away.

regards
Roger


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## Radiorepairman (Mar 13, 2018)

Hi Roger.
Many thanks for the private message, much appreciated.
I only got to hear about the alternative to the "not issued posthumously" reply from the Russian Embassy after the event in Beverley (East Yorkshire) last year, where families of the former veterans from the Arctic Convoys received their "Ushakov" medals from the Russian officials. The event had been mentioned on local BBC Television, but of course I was too late to arrive there. Afterwards I contacted the organizer (Eddie) who told me that what they required was the details of the veteran's "Ships Pouch" in order to process the medal presentation.
Many thanks again for your efforts.
Mike


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## weebobby (Mar 17, 2013)

How do you go about obtaining the Russian medal posthumously?

We did receive the Arctic Star on behalf of my father a couple of years ago.

Bob


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## Roger Griffiths (Feb 10, 2006)

Mike,
I think "Eddie" may be a little confused re "Ships Pouch" 
What you need is the form CRS10 as outlined by Hugh in his post #2 
The "Seaman's Pouch" will only contain minimal information of a personal nature. 
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C14990

Where as form CRS10 gives details of ships sailed on together with details of dates and place's of engagement and discharge.
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C15680

Bob,
In the first instance contact your nearest Russian Embassy or Consulate.
Link to the Russian Embassy in the UK.
https://rusemb.org.uk/ushakov/

regards
Roger


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## Radiorepairman (Mar 13, 2018)

Hi Roger. Many thanks for your reply. I did contact the researcher but no reply as yet, but I did not know about the CRS10 do***entation.
It is not so easy to gain information on this subject as I thought it was going to be.
Regards
Mike


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## Radiorepairman (Mar 13, 2018)

Hugh MacLean said:


> Hi,
> 
> I presume the files I have linked to refer to the correct man.
> There is a way to find out his ships if you do not have his Discharge Book. You can obtain his CRS 10 - service record from Jan, 1941- if it has survived, from the National Archives, Kew. The file should be held in piece *BT 382/813*
> ...


Hi Hugh.
Many thanks for your information. With regards to medals for the M.N sailors on these convoys, were they awarded other medals for these services during WWII, as I am only aware of the Arctic Star from the U.K?
Regards
Mike


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## Hugh MacLean (Nov 18, 2005)

Hi Mike,
Yes, merchant seamen were entitled to medals for war service in the same way as the armed forces. The file I quoted in #2 is your father's medal file *BT 395/1/45329* which lists the medals issued to him or claimed later by his NoK. You can download the file for £3.50. You will probably need it deciphered - easy enough, I can do it for you. 
But I can tell you that the following were issued or claimed - 1939/45 Star, the Atlantic Star and Clasp and the War Medal - they may be in your family possession. He may have another but I cannot make out the whole file.

Regards
Hugh


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## Radiorepairman (Mar 13, 2018)

Hi Hugh.
Many thanks for your information. I wondered if there were more than just the recently issued Arctic Star medal, so later I will go for obtaining them. 
With regards to the file CRS10 and BT382/813 at the National Archives about the ships names and convoys, I have written to them to see if I can purchase details, and from this I can make more progress in gaining the Ushakov medal.
Regards
Mike


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## Hugh MacLean (Nov 18, 2005)

Hi Mike,
Don't expect too much from the National Archives they deem a search of BT 382 as research and charge accordingly. Much better off if you can use a good researcher. Did Roger's researcher get back to you?

Regards
Hugh


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## excadet (Oct 27, 2006)

Hello

It is possible to obtain CRS 10s and Seamans Pouches online, well sort of

1/ find the appropreat do***ent and " request a copy " this takes you to 
A new page where the process is explaned , there is a fee of £8.40p
2/ After ordering you have to wait for their reply 
3/ When they reply you have the choice of prints or digital download
Again there is a fee £ 2.20p for the download, again a wait,

It does work, as yesterday a CRS 10 arrived by this means cost £ 10.60p
much cheaper than going to Kew.

Ben


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## Hugh MacLean (Nov 18, 2005)

Thanks Ben for the update. It would appear they have improved their process.
I would still recommend Roger's researcher. Cheaper, quicker and less hassle IMHO.
Regards
Hugh


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## Roger Griffiths (Feb 10, 2006)

Thanks for the update Ben,
It seems you caught the right person at TNA or infact they have changed their stance when ordering CRS10's.
I have passed your information to another poster
http://www.shipsnostalgia.com/showthread.php?t=259898
Let us see what transpires.

regards
Roger


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## Radiorepairman (Mar 13, 2018)

Hugh MacLean said:


> Hi Mike,
> Don't expect too much from the National Archives they deem a search of BT 382 as research and charge accordingly. Much better off if you can use a good researcher. Did Roger's researcher get back to you?
> 
> Regards
> Hugh


Hi Hugh.
Many thanks for your reply.
No the researcher that Roger recommended did not reply. I have not got an account with them, but I sent them a message via their contact & message section.
Many thanks
Mike


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## Bill.B (Oct 19, 2013)

Plenty of information on Orfordness test site. Main use after the war was crash testing atomic weapons. In the. 70's the Americans built their "Cobra Mist" over the horizon radar which ended up getting scrapped. You can walk around there and look at the displays they have. Access is by foot ferry from Orford town quay and is a good cheap day out. The distances for walking are quite long and you need to bring food and water as it is a wild place. If you go make sure it's is good weather as it is exposed. Many books have been written on the site "Most Secret" by Paddy Heazell is a good read.


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## Radiorepairman (Mar 13, 2018)

Hi Bill.B
Many thanks for your message. Yes my family have been on Orford Ness on a few occasions since a good portion of it has been opened up for public visitors. It is a very interesting place to walk about. However, at the time he worked there in the 1960's, I vividly remember him mentioning about "never ask me where I work or what my job consists of, because of secrecy". Obviously it had to be so at the time, but it was "quite frightening" for young people during those years 1964 to 1967. The only thing at the time was that the M.O.D gave children of the workers an event at Orford Town Hall,which was a Christmas party (which was quite memorable and enjoyable!). He also joined the "Rod & Gun" Club, so he had fishing rights from part of the Ness. He also appears in a group photograph in the first book about the site called "Orford Ness Secret Site" in front of the Jolly Sailor Pub in Orford.
There was also a Military Police site on the Ness, and they could visit the employee's house at random (so I was once told), to see if the Official Secrets Act had been breached, but we had no idea then what it was all about until much later on, and we certainly did not get a "visit" either at that time.
Radar was also pioneered on the Ness and at Bawdsey Manor in the earlier years. I enjoyed the television programme about that (starring Eddie Izzard as Robert Watson Watt)
Cheers
Mike


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