# Maria de Larrinaga



## john1941 (Jan 4, 2013)

Anybody remember the ex Liberty ship "ss Maria de Larrinaga"?
I joined her in the Blackwater River after being laid up for some years and then did a round Africa trip lasting about 6 months and back to Antwerp


----------



## A.D.FROST (Sep 1, 2008)

john1941 said:


> Anybody remember the ex Liberty ship "ss Maria de Larrinaga"?
> I joined her in the Blackwater River after being laid up for some years and then did a round Africa trip lasting about 6 months and back to Antwerp


http://www.photoship.co.uk/JAlbum Ships/Old Ships M/slides/Maria de Larrinaga-02.html


----------



## john1941 (Jan 4, 2013)

Thanks for the photo .. best Ive come across so far


----------



## ixion (Mar 7, 2007)

If of interest she is the fourth ship on the left hand row in the photo taken in the Blackwater in 1959 eg displayed by a search of "Blackwater" in photos here


----------



## FILIPVS (Apr 20, 2011)

Curiously, colors in Larrinaga's funnels were the same of those from the flag of the Spanish Merchant Navy in XIX century.


----------



## Oz. (Sep 6, 2005)

Not really curious FILIPVS, I'm sure that when David Wilcoxson see's this post he can explain it all much better than me. David and I sailed on Richard De Larrinaga way back in the sixties. A horrible ship but we did visit some exotic and sometimes erotic places. Old Larrinaga men reffered to the colours as Blood and Sand.


----------



## A.D.FROST (Sep 1, 2008)

FILIPVS said:


> Curiously, colors in Larrinaga's funnels were the same of those from the flag of the Spanish Merchant Navy in XIX century.


The funnel colours which happens to be similar to Spanish Merchant Navy flag is no coincidence, because they depict their Spanish roots when they used to fly the Spanish flag and away of showing their Spainishness when being a British company trading with Spanish owned Philippines etc.Their Houseflag is totaly differant which shows three clapsed hands,depicting the agreement made by the three partners by sending their steamers through the Suez canal on the toss of a coin.


----------



## David Wilcockson (Jul 10, 2005)

House flag colours were chosen because of the family roots in the Basque area, & represent the Province of Bilbao, red & white. The money from the sale of the Maria went towards funding the lengthening of the Niceto in 1964.
Cheers,
David


----------



## FILIPVS (Apr 20, 2011)

A.D.FROST said:


> The funnel colours which happens to be similar to Spanish Merchant Navy flag is no coincidence, because they depict their Spanish roots when they used to fly the Spanish flag and away of showing their Spainishness when being a British company trading with Spanish owned Philippines etc.Their Houseflag is totaly differant which shows three clapsed hands,depicting the agreement made by the three partners by sending their steamers through the Suez canal on the toss of a coin.


Regarding the toss of the coin:
I have been reading some information about this strange anecdote. The legend also includes that, after the toss of a coin and with the future of the company already decided, they (the three founder partners: Olano, Larrinaga and Longa) toasted with champagne and shouting the word BUENAVENTURA (english: good fortune).

And this was the name of their first steam ship: ss BUENAVENTURA (1871).


----------



## A.D.FROST (Sep 1, 2008)

FILIPVS said:


> Regarding the toss of the coin:
> I have been reading some information about this strange anecdote. The legend is that after the toss of a coin and with the future of the comany decided, they (the three founder partners: Olano, Larrinaga and Longa) toasted with champagne and shouting the word BUENAVENTURA (english: good fortune).
> 
> And this was the name of their first steam ship: ss BUENAVENTURA (1871).


Nice photo.not even the history of LARRINAGA LINE has one.Extra special for me because she was built in Sunderland (as were their last)


----------



## FILIPVS (Apr 20, 2011)

The photo attached in my previous post appeared published in 1898. The reason was that ss BUENAVENTURA was the first captured ship by US NAVY in the American-Spanish War (1898). Ship's owners were sited in UK but it is quite evident that, at least for the USA, she was a spanish ship.

Here we can see the USS Nashville during the detention.


----------



## A.D.FROST (Sep 1, 2008)

LARRINAGA LINE byD.Eccles
View attachment 33408


----------



## FILIPVS (Apr 20, 2011)

A.D.FROST said:


> LARRINAGA LINE byD.Eccles
> View attachment 33408


I think that correct name is "BUENAVENTURA" and not "BUENA VENTURA". It depends on books that one is reading but, in the ship's photographs, ship's name seems to be only a word and not two.
Furthermore in spanish lenguage the word BUENAVENTURA (all together) is frequently used referring to the good luck.

Thanks and Regards


----------



## alan ward (Jul 20, 2009)

The missus bought a book called `The Liverpool Basque`I picked it uphoping it might be some male interest and found to my disappointment and suprise it was based on the Liverpool basque community,I didn`t know they existed but,like the Hawaiians it`s true,
dispersed by the blitz apparantly


----------



## FILIPVS (Apr 20, 2011)

A.D.FROST said:


> The funnel colours which happens to be similar to Spanish Merchant Navy flag is no coincidence, because they depict their Spanish roots when they used to fly the Spanish flag and away of showing their Spainishness when being a British company trading with Spanish owned Philippines etc.


I think that not only the roots were spanish in Olano & Larrinaga during XIX century and part of the XX. The financial resources, the ships, the crews, the routes, the charterers, the cargoes, and the fleet managers were from Spain. All decisions were in spanish hands. There were no British partners beyond mere lenders with no ability to make decisions in matters of the company. 

So I think the funnel's ensign (the spanish flag) it is quite clear about the real nationality of the company and not only about their "roots".


----------



## FILIPVS (Apr 20, 2011)

A.D.FROST said:


> Their Houseflag is totaly differant which shows three clapsed hands,depicting the agreement made by the three partners by sending their steamers through the Suez canal on the toss of a coin.


The logo "three hands together and linked" was actually the work of artist Manuel Salvador Carmona. It was the expression of the three Basque provinces united in the effort to promote the country, on the line and philosophy of Enlightened Despotism.
Many commercial companies in the Spanish Basque Country, based on friendship, used the logo of the three hands. Normally the logo was accompanied by the vasc slogan IRURAC BAT (English: "three to one, one to three", ...as the Three Musketeers, I guess... clear french inspiration).

Interestingly the slogan "IRURAC BAT" was the name of one ship of Olano, Larrinaga and Company (which incidentally had a tragic end).


----------



## A.D.FROST (Sep 1, 2008)

Filipvs,Thank you for enlighten me on the true historical connections of Larrinaga's.


----------



## FILIPVS (Apr 20, 2011)

A.D.FROST said:


> Filipvs,Thank you for enlighten me on the true historical connections of Larrinaga's.


Glad to help. There are not to much people interested in these matters out there!


----------



## FILIPVS (Apr 20, 2011)

Oz. said:


> Not really curious FILIPVS, I'm sure that when David Wilcoxson see's this post he can explain it all much better than me. David and I sailed on Richard De Larrinaga way back in the sixties. A horrible ship but we did visit some exotic and sometimes erotic places. Old Larrinaga men reffered to the colours as Blood and Sand.


Blood, Sand??

Actually the colors of the Spanish flag represent nothing in particular. It is a flag that was used from 1785 only in the sea and was designed to give good visibility at large ranges to the flag of the vessel, to avoid misunderstandings during wartimes. It was later that this naval flag was adopted as the national flag of the Kingdom of Spain.


----------



## FILIPVS (Apr 20, 2011)

alan ward said:


> The missus bought a book called `The Liverpool Basque`I picked it uphoping it might be some male interest and found to my disappointment and suprise it was based on the Liverpool basque community,I didn`t know they existed but,like the Hawaiians it`s true,
> dispersed by the blitz apparantly


Some big spanish names in Liverpool were (in 1860-1914): Arrotegui & Soberon, Dionisio Eizaga, JF Zarza, (these last three were shipchandlers) Juan B. de Abitua (shipbuilder), F. of Oleaga & co (iron merchant), Domingo Ybarrondo (general merchant). And "Olano and Larrinaga" as shipowner.

At the same time, the british presence in Spain was being also very important. Minery, railways, mail services, electrical energy, shipbuilding, shipping and plantations were some of the sectors in Spain that were of interest of british investors.

Regarding shipping:
Elder Dempster had many interests in Canary Islands (fruit traders). MacAndrews & Co (also fruit traders from XVIII century) were the owners of two shipping companies (José Roca & cie, and Miguel Saenz & Cie).
And last but not least: P&O which name and house flag makes direct reference to Iberian Penninsula. This company was in charge of mail services (via Suez and Hong Kong) with spanish and portuguese colonies of Asia. (At the same time Larrinaga &Co was in charge of the cargoes in that same route)


----------



## Cisco (Jan 29, 2007)

back in the dreamtime when I was just a pup my dad told me that Larrinaga put their ships under the Red Ensign during the spanish / american war to get the protection that the British flag offered. Dunno if its true but thats what my dad told me.......


----------



## FILIPVS (Apr 20, 2011)

Cisco said:


> back in the dreamtime when I was just a pup my dad told me that Larrinaga put their ships under the Red Ensign during the spanish / american war to get the protection that the British flag offered. Dunno if its true but thats what my dad told me.......


I think there were other reasons. In fact there were many spanish shipping companies sited in Liverpool, (some of them bigger than Olano and Larrinaga) but at the end all of them came back to Spain. The exception was Larrinaga, which remained in Uk for ever and changed the spanish flag for the british flag.
The reason of this is that the other spanish companies sited in Liverpool were dedicated mainly to short sea trade between ports of Iberian Penninsula and Uk. So, finally was better to move the offices to Spain. But Larrinaga had a quite different business, with the ships engaged in transatlantic/overseas navigation . For this kind of traffic, once Spain lost all overseas territories, UK was a better place (and a better flag) because Uk still had an overseas Empire under control and centralized in ports like Liverpool.


----------



## FILIPVS (Apr 20, 2011)

Interesting photo...
ss BUENAVENTURA in transit in Suez in 1871 towards Manila. I think Lesseps was on borad... May somebody confirm it??


----------

