# Steam windlass - know of any still existing?



## ianscales (May 17, 2006)

I'm researching details of deck machinery on smaller steamships (coasters, short sea traders). 

Does anyone know of any existing steam windlass? Either working or non-working, but good enough to inspect its details. If so, where is it and who would I contact?

I know of the one on the PS Waverley (UK). I am hoping to find an older one, like the Emerson Walker and Clarke Chapman steam windlasses used c.1890-1939.

I have uploaded for example two photos of a Clarke Chapman & Co steam windlass, from Fisher's "Engineering for Nautical students" (1936). 

Even if you stumble across this thread in months to come, I'll periodically check back for any replies.


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## chadburn (Jun 2, 2008)

Ian, try the Shieldhall and John.H. Amos sites, great pieces of equipment with wooden block brake bands if I remember correctly, Ferodo came in later.


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## ianscales (May 17, 2006)

Great, thanks, I've found those websites and I'll follow up. 

If anyone else knows any other steam windlasses out there I'd be happy to hear of them.


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## Locking Splice (Oct 28, 2006)

Ian,

The old London river Steam Tug Cervia laying in Ramsgate which is in a now some what dangerous state of disrepair, has a nice fow'ard steam windlass.

Best Regards

Yuge


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## Duncan112 (Dec 28, 2006)

SS Robin in London may well have one - according to the web site she is shut at present though.

Duncan


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## Nick Balls (Apr 5, 2008)

What about the Lydia Eva in Lowestoft she was steam driven


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## pete richards (Jan 15, 2009)

*Re-Steam Winches*

Try Bristol Industrial Museum.They have a couple of steam tugs and also
steam trains and a couple of old cranes and numerous other static displays.


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## ianscales (May 17, 2006)

More leads - thank you for your suggestions, I'm following up with emails to these various exhibits. Further suggestions welcome.


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## japottinger (Jun 16, 2004)

I have a shot of a typical cargo winch which was used by Herd & McKenzie to haul boats up the slip, contact me on E-mail add.
japottinger


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## 6639 (Apr 20, 2006)

Hi I have these pics in my archives, might be a little help to you.
From some old articles and adverts I've collected over the years.(Thumb)


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## chadburn (Jun 2, 2008)

Ian, have you got one of these in the back lot for a rebuild? If you have I (like other's) may be able to give you some tip's on how things were done in the "good old day's"


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## gordy (Apr 18, 2008)

http://www.maidoftheloch.com/html/slipway1.html


This place is well worth a visit. Here's some pics I took.

http://gallery.me.com/gordonkbickerton#100304


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## Philip Jones (Jul 26, 2006)

*steam windlass*

Are any of the attachments of use to you. They are from Reed's Light Marine Machinery 1904 edition.


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## chadburn (Jun 2, 2008)

Philip, centre picture is a good one. This and other types of steam winch were very robust, they were built to last the life of a Ship and in some cases beyond that in a shoreside roll, the only real problems there was with them was in regards to the Barrel Nut on the brake band where the thread could be strained due to "over zealous" tightening of the brake handle/screw. Very rarely you had a partly/ broken gear tooth which could be repaired in a particular way (pre-metlok days!!) However the most important thing is that the drains are opened and a decent warm up time is given before operating the Winch


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## ianscales (May 17, 2006)

Well, such interesting material has come in on steam windlasses and winches. I think what I will do is to send a PM or email to follow up on some of these posts. 

I have followed up some of the ships suggested in the earlier posts (not all as yet), and so far ss Robin is looking good from my point of view, with machinery dating from 1898. Its looking like I'll take a trip to UK to see some of this machinery (I have found nothing here in Australia except a couple of CCCo winches). Calling this a research project really helps in rationalising such largesse!

My immediate problem for this thread is that I will be going to Papua New Guinea for work in a couple of days, its a terrible place to do anything web-based and so I'll be effectively absent for 6 weeks. Email works ok though.


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## George Speis (Nov 24, 2010)

*clarke chapman*

This picture is taken at a coal bunkering station, not used since 1940. Does anybody know something about it?
It is a steam windlass for coal barges.
I need at least the date of construction. It has to be sometime between 1915-1935.
Clarke Chapman cannot provide any information.


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## Billieboy (May 18, 2009)

George Speis said:


> This picture is taken at a coal bunkering station, not used since 1940. Does anybody know something about it?
> It is a steam windlass for coal barges.
> I need at least the date of construction. It has to be sometime between 1915-1935.
> Clarke Chapman cannot provide any information.


So far as I can see from both photos, it's a standard warping winch dated about 1930 or there abouts, from the condition of the foot pad,(which usually operated a throttle valve), it hasn't been used very much, a strip down clean and grease should get it back into operating condition, probably after new piston rings are fitted in newly honed cylinders. I expect that the haul/lift capacity is around 5 tonnes on a proper rig with about 125ppsi, (say 9 Bar), steam pressure.


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## George Speis (Nov 24, 2010)

Billieboy said:


> So far as I can see from both photos, it's a standard warping winch dated about 1930 or there abouts, from the condition of the foot pad,(which usually operated a throttle valve), it hasn't been used very much, a strip down clean and grease should get it back into operating condition, probably after new piston rings are fitted in newly honed cylinders. I expect that the haul/lift capacity is around 5 tonnes on a proper rig with about 125ppsi, (say 9 Bar), steam pressure.


Thanks a lot. 
For more information I am attaching the pictures of the barges at the bottom of the sea. They were sunk by the Germans. From the car you can tell the scale. Is it possible with this capacity to tow barges like that?
Also since it seems you come from Wales, the coal they were using most probably came from Cardiff, do you know any archive having relative information. The island with this station is Kea.


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## Billieboy (May 18, 2009)

George Speis said:


> Thanks a lot.
> For more information I am attaching the pictures of the barges at the bottom of the sea. They were sunk by the Germans. From the car you can tell the scale. Is it possible with this capacity to tow barges like that?
> Also since it seems you come from Wales, the coal they were using most probably came from Cardiff, do you know any archive having relative information. The island with this station is Kea.


Towing a floating barge fully loaded would be easy for this warping winch, all that is needed is a drum full of wire and a couple of snatch blocks with possibly a few shackles too. The one winch could marshall,(shunt in railway terms), any barge, anywhere around the bay, as long as the drum wire was long enough. I don't know of any specific bunkering archives, but someone else, may be able to help you with that query.


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## chadburn (Jun 2, 2008)

There's memories Billieboy, from an age of fixing/renewing broken teeth before the age of "Metlock". Mind you "Metlock" was a Chief Engineer's saviour especially on cracked up and over sea valve cover's.


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## Billieboy (May 18, 2009)

I once saw a caird and Rainer evaporator door metalocked in Rotterdam one trip, just as I was joining after a sport of leave. For some reason, there were no engineers left on board for us to relieve! Later, after I'd come ashore and was just starting up a repair business, I met the General Manager of Metalock (NL), who had actually carried out the repair on the vap door! The repaired door was still in good order on the vap after about 18 months, before the element was changed in a major modification.


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## Dickyboy (May 18, 2009)

All Winches and windlesses on oil tankers were/are steam powered. No sparks! Perhaps there are some small tankers that you could have a look at.
This windless was steam powered. On a 250,000 ton BP tanker in the 70s


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## chadburn (Jun 2, 2008)

George, having another look at the winch it does look as though it has had little use if any at all. What do you think the derelict structure was, is there any sign of a boiler or it's old footing's nearby?


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## NoR (Mar 24, 2008)

*Small steam windlass on P S Waverley*

Pic here of Fo'csle on PS Waverley incl steam windlass which is in regular use.


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## George Speis (Nov 24, 2010)

chadburn said:


> George, having another look at the winch it does look as though it has had little use if any at all. What do you think the derelict structure was, is there any sign of a boiler or it's old footing's nearby?


Old people remember the boiler working and whistling from steam.


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## criley (Jan 2, 2010)

The tender Nomadic of the White Star Line is in Belfast and has a steam windlass, 1911 vintage.


c riley
Cecil Riley


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## NoR (Mar 24, 2008)

chadburn said:


> Philip, centre picture is a good one. This and other types of steam winch were very robust, they were built to last the life of a Ship and in some cases beyond that in a shoreside roll, the only real problems there was with them was in regards to the Barrel Nut on the brake band where the thread could be strained due to "over zealous" tightening of the brake handle/screw. Very rarely you had a partly/ broken gear tooth which could be repaired in a particular way (pre-metlok days!!) However the most important thing is that the drains are opened and a decent warm up time is given before operating the Winch


During a long standby with steam on deck. Would it be necessary to open the drains occasionally, or would you just turn the winch over a few times ?
I


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## surfaceblow (Jan 16, 2008)

The last ship I was on with steam windlass and winches all had traps and orfices on both the supply and exhaust piping. In cold weather the winches and windlass would be kept turning the ends of the drums were painted white so the deck watch see the drum rotating. 

Joe


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## Malky Glaister (Nov 2, 2008)

Steam winches were found, at one time all over the place where there was a supply of steam!
For many years a small winch survived at KING STREET ground frame. Paisley.
This was the towns gas work siding, the winch being used to move wagons. It remained many years after the gas works had gone, hidden in the encroaching bushes. It survived electrification of the line but has now gone.
I doubt that those who removed it knew what it was.

Steam for ever

regards

Malky


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## ardtornish (Nov 24, 2012)

Hello there!

I know this is probably not the right place but there seems to be a lot very knowledgeable lads among you all.

I'm doing some research myself. I'm wondering what kind of activity would take place in the stoke-hold of a coal burner when the order 'Full Astern' from 'Full Ahead' without a 'Stop' order was rung -down from the bridge.

In the dark corners of my mind, there seems to be a memory of outrage from the Chief when such an order was rung down. I think they said they preferred to have a 'Stop' immediately followed by a 'Full Astern'. Would this be something to do with the boiler firing rate?

Ardtornish


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## surfaceblow (Jan 16, 2008)

A good visual of a stoke hold coal burner is Saving the Titanic 

http://www.pbs.org/programs/saving-titanic/

Joe


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## Malky Glaister (Nov 2, 2008)

Steam winches could be run on compressed air and were thus used in spark proof areas without steam.

I think there is a Clarke Chapman thread on this site with some more info on the subject.

regards

Malky


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## chadburn (Jun 2, 2008)

NoR said:


> During a long standby with steam on deck. Would it be necessary to open the drains occasionally, or would you just turn the winch over a few times ?
> I


Just leave the drain's "cracked" open so that when you start the winch you get rid of any condesate on either side of the piston(s), once the winch is away then of course close them.
In regard's to the Chief and the coal fired job going directly from full ahead to full astern, more to do with the operation of the VTE.
AS Malky has indicated winches could be run with compressed air and it was used to test your valve timing expertise on a "Dead Ship".


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## Binnacle (Jul 22, 2005)

The fishery research ship Explorer was steam driven. You might get some info from this site. There is no photograph of the windlass but the trawl winch is shown. She is rusting away at Leith.
http://www.ss-explorer.com/


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## ardtornish (Nov 24, 2012)

surfaceblow said:


> A good visual of a stoke hold coal burner is Saving the Titanic
> 
> http://www.pbs.org/programs/saving-titanic/
> 
> Joe


Hello Joe.

I know about that particular source but thanks anyway. I was more
interested in why engineers would object the the handles being put from full ahead to to full astern without ringing stop.

Perhaps Geordie Chief can help out here?

Ardtornish


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## chadburn (Jun 2, 2008)

In the "good" old day's the Stephenson Reversing Link's were moved over from ahead to astern by a large handwheel which was easier to operate with the engine steam stop closed, later on it was done by a steam/hydraulic arrangement with the handwheel as the man-u-matic back up.


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