# Crank case crawls



## spongebob

When the Rangitane reached Panama on voyage Auckland to London the docking awaiting canal transit saw the main engine crankcase access doors removed and the engineers sent in to inspect and check all moving parts, lock tabs, split pins etc to ensure all was well after a 18 day steam from Auckland.
An extremely hot and dirty task that was repeated on the return journey ex UK.
I was on freeezer watches at the time so I escaped the experience but did others often find defects that might have led to failures at sea?

Bob


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## John Rogers

I had the pleasure of doing that job Bob on a Port Boat, even thou I was the Greaser in the Freezer flat I was still available to work in the engine room when all of us were working days in port. I dressed up in a burlap bag and crawled through all the black ****e.


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## Basil

John Rogers said:


> I had the pleasure of doing that job Bob on a Port Boat, even thou I was the Greaser in the Freezer flat I was still available to work in the engine room when all of us were working days in port. I dressed up in a burlap bag and crawled through all the black ****e.


Very thankful to have done only one diesel trip and the rest steam :sweat:


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## G0SLP

On one occasion, having done a pier head jump when joining a ship in Houston, then finding a 28lb flogging hammer resting on one of the frames during a routine crankcase inspection, after an Atlantic crossing from hell, was a thought-provoking moment...


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## A.D.FROST

Favorite was sacks/rags left in the c/c blocking sump drain on twin Doxfords(the only time I was glad to be bunkering)(egg)


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## D1566

G0SLP said:


> On one occasion, having done a pier head jump when joining a ship in Houston, then finding a 28lb flogging hammer resting on one of the frames during a routine crankcase inspection, after an Atlantic crossing from hell, was a thought-provoking moment...


If it was one that small it must have been the 'lecky that left it there!


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## Micky Bodill

A second engineer I sailed with wanted to check the oil supply to the camshaft chain on an 8 cyl. poppet valve B & W. He was used to big doxfords and thought he could stand in the gearbox while the oil was put on. Needless to say he came out like a seal, once you pump a few tons of oil to the top of the engine it has to come down.


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## A.D.FROST

Micky Bodill said:


> A second engineer I sailed with wanted to check the oil supply to the camshaft chain on an 8 cyl. poppet valve B & W. He was used to big doxfords and thought he could stand in the gearbox while the oil was put on. Needless to say he came out like a seal, once you pump a few tons of oil to the top of the engine it has to come down.


Ever checked x-head bearings clearances on a MAN by disconnecting the linkage on the x-head mechanical oil pump and with main oil pump running shoving feeler gauges in the gap while some one hand pumped(that lubed the hairs on the back of your neck)(Sad)


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## Derek Roger

Before a crankcase crawl always remember to ensure the turning gear is ' in " and take the fuses out of the starter and put them in your pocket . We didn't have lockout padlocks in the 60s / 70's . Derek


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## John Paul

*turning gear fuses*

hi 
Used the turning gear to move the crankshaft into more suitable positions while in the crankcase, never found a problem with that provided the engineer operating the gear was on the ball. A wandering lead on the controller was a gods end as it could be taken into the c/c


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## BobClay

I remember my Dad visiting my ship the E.W. Beatty in Port Talbot in the 70's. He was very keen to see the engine room as he'd only ever been to sea once, as a soldier going out to Egypt in 1942 and they hadn't been allowed down the engine room.
I took him down, and the crankcase covers were off. The Third Engineer was inside and I introduced him to my old man through the hole, but they didn't shake hands because the Third was literally drenched in oil. My Old Man was mightily impressed (it was a fairly big ship) but he was a bit concerned that the Third's job seemed a bit 'unhealthy.' (EEK)


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## holmsey

Four happy bunnies following a crank-case crawl on SSA's MV Darro in 1973, 3 white boiler suits and 1 blue one, it's hard to see which.
Regards
Jim H


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## Engine Serang

Am pensionable age with a full head of hair. This I credit to dozens of crankcase inspections, my hair has seen more Shell Melina 30 than Brylcream, often had to use Swarfega to remove lub oil from hair and upper body. H&S my ass!

Never found anything untoward on a crankcase inspection, foreign bodies, loose nuts, tab washers or excessive bearing clearances. Sometimes wondered what it achieved. I think hydraulic tightening of nuts helped in this regard, the flogging spanner and sledge was a wee bit agricultural, the least attractive aspect of the Doxford LBD.

During a 1st Drydocking of a Govan built ship I did an inspection of the Aft Peak Tank and found an amount of lighting strings, a card table and 4 chairs. The nightshift I presume.


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## Varley

I have not heard of a H&S soap, why doesn't it work on one's hair as well?

Love the afterpeak discovery. One on which to "dine out" and more wholesome than fossil turds in the FW tanks.


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## chadburn

Varley said:


> I have not heard of a H&S soap, why doesn't it work on one's hair as well
> 
> Did it work on Piles(EEK)


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## george e mitchell

on reading the various posts about crankcase crawls it brought back many memories. Back in 1962 I joined the Shaw Savill ship Waiwera. until that time my work experience was building and repairing trawlers tugs and coasters. I found the main engines and all the other equipment on the Waiwera Awesome.
Three pistons in the one cylinder. never heard of that before.
However we sailed for SUEZ then on to Aden for bunkers. that was my introduction to the crankcase crawl. Firstly I was advised not to wear a boiler suit. just vest pants and boots. I thought they were having me on as a first tripper. However all the other engineers were like that so I just followed. I was shown what to look for,We all had a hammer to test the bolts nuts ect and
look for anything else hanging off.
At finished with engines the lub oil pumps were stopped turning gear put in .
Crankcase doors removed and in we went. The elects had fitted the required lighting outside the crankcase When completed the crankcase was evacuated. everybody accounted for, The doors reinstalled, all the hammers accounted for.
Every body covered from head to toe with hot lub oil.In the two years I was on that ship I never heard of anything being found in the crankcase.but the old expression said if it can happen it will. The other inspection carried out was the scavenge area. that was worse because it was on your stomach in black carbon mud,while we were checking the crankcase the greaser cleaners would be cleaning out the scavenge spaces, They would wear hessian sack and plastic bags if we had any.Upon completion the third engineer would do a liner inspection from inside the scavenge spaces, He was looking for blocked ports or lubricator points, the main check was piston rings (if any ) on the main pistons The engine was turned by the turning gear for this task.
A record was kept of his findings. it gave us an indication what to expect on the second part of the voyage Aden to New Zealand. I don't know what the health and safety would say today.about these things.but to us it was just part of the job. The greaser cleaners all got special payments for scavenge cleaning but the engineers got a free can of beer from the Chief. The reasons for not wearing a 
boilersuit was they became saturated in hot lub oil and became very heavy,
plus we had to wash them ourselves, we couldn't afford to throw them away.
The company never supplied any gear at all. uniforms, boilersuits boots were all supplied by ourselves, Which was quite expensive on a junior engineers salary..
I will close here and continue on another post. have a habit of losing what ive written, 
George




.


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## alaric

The posts on this thread seem to confirm what I had always thought, crankcase inspections were not worth the effort. I don't remenber anyone ever finding a loose nut.
I only sailed deep sea on two motorships, Shaw Savill's Alaric and Megantic, they were relatively new at the time, but the proceedure was as described by George on Waiwera, although the newer ships managed with only two pistons per cylinder, thank goodness, and we wore boilersuits in the crankcase.


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## george e mitchell

hi ALARIC I was nine years in Shaw Savill and the only vessel that did crankcase crawls was the Waiwera. JOINED SSA 1962 1970. I also sailed as 4th eng on the ALARIC NOV 64 till NOV.65. also sailed on the Megantic as 2nd ,Jan 71 till Dec 71. We all got laid off because of container ships. I wrote a rather large posting on the Shaw Savill site Shaw Savill memories and culture, Starting at APRIL 16 I am told its quite good if you wish to read it. George


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## Steve Oatey

In the crankcase of RFA Plumleaf's Doxford we discovered the detuner on the end of the crankshaft was in danger of falling off. Two of the huge nuts holding it on had already fallen off and it was a right b**ta*d getting them up out of the bottom of the pit and screwing them on again as it was a tight space and they were heavy. All the other nuts were also loose.


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## Freo

Have done lots of crankcase inspections, but have never found anything of importance, but, after coming ashore, and working in remote iron ore mines, who operated large medium speed engines in their power stations, the story changes.
Have spent many hours inside the crankcase of Mirrlees KV16 Major engines, hand scraping and bluing the faces of the bedplate, due to fretting of the main bearing cap. Not the most comfortable of jobs in 45°C conditions, and being 6ft 2" in height. And that's with the liners removed.


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## John Paul

crankcase inspections on a tanker found the center pad of No1 piston had squeezed out the white metal, opened up x head bearings, lower halves white metal cracked with a lot missing, canter pad had had it, all hands turned to to renew bearings, these all scraped and blued,so at time faults were found, this was on a P type Doxford


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## D1566

Crankcase inspections on Fiat-GMT engines were a worthwhile exercise given the piston cooling connections and scavenge pump drives. Otherwise I only ever did them on B&Ws or Sulzer RDs; none of which I recall being especially prone to loose bits or being particularly dirty ... just oily, and if the time was available, then the whole thing was allowed to drain down.


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## loco

Holmsey;
Post #12; is the engineer wearing glasses on the right of the photo Dave Graham?
Crankcase explosions in general-didn't DESEADO suffer one not long before she was sold? I think I sailed with the Junior on watch at the time, who did suffer some burns.
Martyn


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## A.D.FROST

(egg)You always tell a Doxford man on a Sulzer c/c inspection.He would take of the aluminum covers rather than the door.


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## holmsey

Martyn, it is indeed Dave Graham, I left SSA shortly after that trip and kept in touch with him for a while, and he visited us when home on leave, then he just stopped making contact, what happened to him I do not know.
regards
Jim H
(I'm the long haired lout on the left, can't remember the other lads names)


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## loco

Jim;
I didn't start with SSA until 1976, so before your time. I sailed with Dave in 1978 on LINDFIELD on the West Indies run, and again in 1982-3 on MANCHESTER CHALLENGE. I left in 1986, and lost contact with most people I sailed with.
Martyn


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## dannic

Oddest item found inside crankcase was 1 boot! 
Dannic


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## BobClay

dannic said:


> Oddest item found inside crankcase was 1 boot!
> Dannic


Makes you wonder where the rest of him went !!! Out through the funnel ? 

(EEK)


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## spongebob

When I first went to sea I heard a unlikely story about a Second Engineer who commited suicide by removing a crank case door and jumping in.
Most likely a story to unnerve green first trippers but was anyone else told it?

Bob


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## Steve Oatey

spongebob said:


> When I first went to sea I heard a unlikely story about a Second Engineer who commited suicide by removing a crank case door and jumping in.
> Most likely a story to unnerve green first trippers but was anyone else told it?
> 
> Bob


I've often heard a similar story.


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## Fergie

Bob, a second engineer on USSCo "Monowai" committed suicide in Auckland just before sailing, probably about 1952. Chuck Walsh was taken from his ship, can't remember whether he was chief or second at the time, to take her to Sydney, a pier head jump. Said he would not sleep in 2/E cabin.


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## spongebob

Thanks for that Fergie, I heard that story 59 years ago and remember it well but I can't be sure that I took my pills this morning.
As for that engineer, it would have been a certain way of death to jump into the open crank case of Monowai's huge reciprocating steam engines.

Bob


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## D1566

spongebob said:


> When I first went to sea I heard a unlikely story about a Second Engineer who commited suicide by removing a crank case door and jumping in.
> Most likely a story to unnerve green first trippers but was anyone else told it?
> 
> Bob


Yes I got told that one too, with lurid detail of teeth being picked out of filters etc.


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## Engine Serang

Nowadays his Prince Albert would be picked up in the filters.


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## Steve Hodges

No one seems to have mentioned taking crankshaft deflection readings. I was a steam man but I did my last trip as 3E on an LB Doxford, and I seem to recall that beside crankcase inspections the CE frequently had me taking crankshaft deflections, with a special dialgauge between the crank webs while the engine was turned over on the gear. And do you know, l cannot now for the life of me remember what the point of the exercise was. Maybe he just didn't like me..............



s


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## Engine Serang

Taking and recording deflections is the easy bit.


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## uisdean mor

Steve Hodges said:


> No one seems to have mentioned taking crankshaft deflection readings. I was a steam man but I did my last trip as 3E on an LB Doxford, and I seem to recall that beside crankcase inspections the CE frequently had me taking crankshaft deflections, with a special dialgauge between the crank webs while the engine was turned over on the gear. And do you know, l cannot now for the life of me remember what the point of the exercise was. Maybe he just didn't like me..............
> 
> 
> 
> s


Steve 
The objective was to compare in a series of readings changes in the deflections over time. This gave an indication of both main and bottom end bearing wear.Specifically main bearing wear.Another critical time was taking readings afloat in drydock - usually just arrived so hot wet and sticky and then taking a separate set of readings when the keel was on the blocks. The deflection readings were also then compared to the wear in the thrust bearing to determine the axial movement of the crankshaft. Nowadays I am sure all these measurements can be achieved remotely by sensors?? 
Rgds


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## A.D.FROST

Steve Hodges said:


> No one seems to have mentioned taking crankshaft deflection readings. I was a steam man but I did my last trip as 3E on an LB Doxford, and I seem to recall that beside crankcase inspections the CE frequently had me taking crankshaft deflections, with a special dialgauge between the crank webs while the engine was turned over on the gear. And do you know, l cannot now for the life of me remember what the point of the exercise was. Maybe he just didn't like me..............
> 
> 
> 
> s


 crankshaft deflection is a way of checking wear down of main bearings('Ruston'' dial indicator)


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## waldziu

*Ovvies.*

"plus we had to wash them ourselves, we couldn't afford to throw them away.
The company never supplied any gear at all. uniforms, boiler suits boots were all supplied by ourselves, Which was quite expensive on a junior engineers salary." 
George




.[/QUOTE]

Reminds me of when I was on HMS Carysfort ( yes I know Steam) Chief stoker detailed me and another morning watchman to dive into the port stern gland space to clean out the bilge pump filter. The water was nearly coming over the top of the shaft and the water was full of Neox turds. Sorry George, after we had completed out task we mad our way to the upper scupper where the chief jack dusty (stores bod) informed us to throw our totally soiled ovvies and steaming bat over the side and he issued us with new. In the RN certain items of clothing were exchanged when they wore out but he did not want our manky kit in his store. What p*&sed me off was they were a comfortable set of engine room slippers and a well faded set of ovvies. This took place whilst crossing the Indian Ocean.


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## Bill Hardy

spongebob said:


> When I first went to sea I heard a unlikely story about a Second Engineer who commited suicide by removing a crank case door and jumping in.
> Most likely a story to unnerve green first trippers but was anyone else told it?
> 
> Bob


I sailed with Common Brothers in the early sixties,on Border Tankers.That story was told by quite a few engineers at that time,but doubt it was true!
Ask heard of a nasty 2nd engineer vanishing off the flying bridge in rough weather,never to be seen again.


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## howardws

Steve Hodges said:


> No one seems to have mentioned taking crankshaft deflection readings. I was a steam man but I did my last trip as 3E on an LB Doxford, and I seem to recall that beside crankcase inspections the CE frequently had me taking crankshaft deflections, with a special dialgauge between the crank webs while the engine was turned over on the gear. And do you know, l cannot now for the life of me remember what the point of the exercise was. Maybe he just didn't like me..............s


The problem with crankshaft deflections on a Doxford is that if the Chief has you take one set on a tanker that is fully loaded, then, some weeks later another when part loaded and then he compares the two it causes him a considerable amount of worry. He jumps up and down, shouts and swears at everyone in range and then goes on the toot. That's my experience anyway!


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## Engine Serang

Most Chiefs I've sailed with could go on the toot long before deflections were mentioned.


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## A.D.FROST

Engine Serang said:


> Most Chiefs I've sailed with could go on the toot long before deflections were mentioned.


Most Chiefs I sailed with couldn't get between the webs including my self now(Pint)


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## chadburn

Steve Hodges said:


> No one seems to have mentioned taking crankshaft deflection readings. I was a steam man but I did my last trip as 3E on an LB Doxford, and I seem to recall that beside crankcase inspections the CE frequently had me taking crankshaft deflections, with a special dialgauge between the crank webs while the engine was turned over on the gear. And do you know, l cannot now for the life of me remember what the point of the exercise was. Maybe he just didn't like me..............
> 
> 
> 
> s


I think you have read the Chief the wrong way, YOU were the "chosen one" to take the readings and he must have trusted you to Log accurate readings rather than 'guesstimates'.
Take it from me there are certain Engineers a Chief will rely on to do that task accurately.


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## Engine Serang

Only a butchers dog would fit between the webs, I never could.
Today I could get into the crankcase but probably not get out. Call the Coastguard or the Mountain Rescue.


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## Clifford Cocker

With Bank Line in the 70s we were issued with Crankcase/tank inspection suits, a bit like a moving Turkish bath in a hot crankcase, most people didn't wear them, just get oily! I always kept the lub oil clean though, that,s what purifiers are for!!
I often used to find nuts a bit slack, but whilst with port line I did find a centre top end bearing squeezing out (quite regular on some of the John Brown LB Doxfords). Main problem was getting the spare off the ships side, been there I think since 1936!!


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## chadburn

Clifford Cocker said:


> With Bank Line in the 70s we were issued with Crankcase/tank inspection suits, a bit like a moving Turkish bath in a hot crankcase, most people didn't wear them, just get oily! I always kept the lub oil clean though, that,s what purifiers are for!!
> I often used to find nuts a bit slack, but whilst with port line I did find a centre top end bearing squeezing out (quite regular on some of the John Brown LB Doxfords). Main problem was getting the spare off the ships side, been there I think since 1936!!


It's a wonder it was not a Wooden Copy.(*))


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## A.D.FROST

Engine Serang said:


> Only a butchers dog would fit between the webs, I never could.
> Today I could get into the crankcase but probably not get out. Call the Coastguard or the Mountain Rescue.


If you watch the film "Sand Pebbles" Steve Mcqueen,Whilst the M/E was running (Steam Resip) with a rope tied round his waist went in the c/c to retrieve a sack and came up the other side.Thats show biz


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## greektoon

Related to the topic, this has recently been released by the UK P&I Club

http://www.ukpandi.com/knowledge/ar...s-in-scavenge-air-receivers-worldwide-136215/


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## greektoon

This is a particularly grim report.

http://www.ukpandi.com/knowledge/ar...ed-spaces-a-reminder-of-the-dangers-usa-1597/


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## greektoon

I seem to remember the engineers wearing special rope sole crankcase shoes for the job??


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## Duncan112

greektoon said:


> This is a particularly grim report.
> 
> http://www.ukpandi.com/knowledge/ar...ed-spaces-a-reminder-of-the-dangers-usa-1597/


A slightly more graphic version - can I commend the Marine Accident Casebook to your attention, worth a browse

http://maritimeaccident.org/2016/01/safespace-replay-the-case-of-the-one-way-assassin/


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## Engine Serang

Sobering reports indeed, their colleagues will take some time to get over the incidents. 
I sometimes take a poke at the ISM and H&S when they become bogged down in trivial detail but when the most experienced of engineers are maimed or loose their life it hammers home that no-one can become complacent when working onboard a ship. Safety first, second and third.


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## zebedee

Further to GOSLP in post number 4, I have always had the impression that a fliogging hammer weighed about 7 pounds while a 28 pound one was nicknamed a Monday (often pronounced Mundy) hammer as it could only be used on that day. Clearly I adhere to the good old Imperial system of weights and measures. To Alar, post 17 a routine inspection on the MV Trelyon revealed water dripping from the bottom of number four cylinder jacket. This necessitated "only" renewing the "O" ring but the liner was changed anyway as it was so near the end of its life. (Jester) Zebedee.


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## spongebob

zebedee said:


> Further to GOSLP in post number 4, I have always had the impression that a fliogging hammer weighed about 7 pounds while a 28 pound one was nicknamed a Monday (often pronounced Mundy) hammer as it could only be used on that day. (Jester) Zebedee.


The 28 pound hammer was mostly used in the dry dock for loosening or tightening the propellor nuts on the naval cruisers and frigates .When working on a planked staging above the dry dock floor each man was limited to three or four swings at a time. There was always a smart **** apprentice that tries to do more

Bob


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## funnelstays

I was lucky on one ship that the clever chaps at Dae Woo actually supplied a Bluetooth active deflection gauge which proved very handy.
No need to get in the C/C or stop the turning gear when taking a set of readings as you dont have to worry about oil dripping on the face.
Just make sure you put new batteries in the device before starting out and the only time that anybody has to get in is to attach and remove said apparatus.(Thumb)


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## spongebob

Talking about confined spaces, claustrophobia is a long time demon of mine and I posted on SN 20/6/2008 under the subject.
This crankcase and engine maintenance now brings to mind the day we had pulled a piston on a British Polar main engine and it was my job to measure the cylinder bore with an inside micrometer. I laid a piece of dunnage and some old rags across the cylinder head studs to give a bit of comfort as I hung head down into the narrow bore to take the readings and all of a sudden the dunnage broke and pitched me forward further into the cylinder. The second and third engineers were standing by while I was on the job and as I started to flail my legs in panic they saw fit to poke me with a spanner where the sun did not shine before pulling me up . I came up red faced and swinging but calmed down before any damage was done but I backed off doing any more bore measurements that day

Bob


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## Engine Serang

Does this Bluetooth device still need a bit of string tied to it to pull it out when it falls into the sump.
Oh yes it will.
It always does.


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## Tony Morris

funnelstays said:


> I was lucky on one ship that the clever chaps at Dae Woo actually supplied a Bluetooth active deflection gauge which proved very handy.
> No need to get in the C/C or stop the turning gear when taking a set of readings as you dont have to worry about oil dripping on the face.
> Just make sure you put new batteries in the device before starting out and the only time that anybody has to get in is to attach and remove said apparatus.(Thumb)


Cap Jackson? Wonderful little toy.

Tony


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## Steve Hodges

Clifford Cocker said:


> With Bank Line in the 70s we were issued with Crankcase/tank inspection suits, a bit like a moving Turkish bath in a hot crankcase, most people didn't wear them, just get oily!


OhGod yes, its coming back to me now. BP supplied green plastic boilys for working in the crankcase, but I only tried wearing one once even though we were coasting Northern Europe in winter. The main function of the plastic boily seemed to be to channel all your sweat into your boots, which you had to empty out as you emerged from each crankcase door.


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## sternchallis

A.D.FROST said:


> Most Chiefs I sailed with couldn't get between the webs including my self now(Pint)


Most of the old chiefs never went further than the duty mess, god forbid entering the changing room and looking down into the ER, that's what 2nd's were invented for.
Though as a first trip 5iver I spoilt the 2nds honeymoon trip with his new wife, we always seemed to have a scavenge fire or some disaster on the 4/8 am just as he was on the vinegar strokes. One scavenge fire lasted 12 hours so it went out on my watch also. The 2nd had bottom eyelids down to his chin when he left the ER.


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## sternchallis

With reference to the scavenge space accident (tragic), I was surprised at some of the terminology 'ship operations forman' bosun or donkeyman? 
2nd Technical officer assume 2nd Engineer, 'a seafarer in the ER' . 

Oiler on watch prepares to start the Main Engine? Has it come down to this?

Nobody thought to get in the scavenge space and look for Kurt, as there appears to be areas that cannot be seen from each end.
Never came across a scavenge space with baffles, presumably long engines surge a bit hence the baffles.


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## Engine Serang

Oiler on watch prepares to start the Main Engine? Has it come down to this?

Yes it has, and your bloody lucky to have an Oiler. Most are AB Oilers who do a bit in the Engine Room up to lunch time, rest off in the afternoon and pick up a night watch on the Bridge as a lookout.
Entering and leaving port he is part of the after party.
If you want the engine started do it yourself.

On many ships the Cook is an AB Cook who also does night watches as lookout and is part of the after party. No slackers in The Modern Merch.


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## Dave Lambert

I was bully beef on a vessel in Vancouver late 90,s. 2/E and 3/E were doing deflections on M.E. I was in my office when the old man called me round to his office. Sitting there was a "gentleman" from the Canadian Coastguard dressed in casual shirt, shorts and jogging shoes who then informed me the vessel was detained because of oily bottom plates in the E.R! He had been in the E.R without notifying anyone dressed in casual gear and gave me a lecture about safety in the E.R. We eventually cleared the problem up - after the old man had restrained me from thumping the "gentleman" whilst I had him against the bulkhead in the cross alleyway!


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## Engine Serang

If a Coastguard guy or a PSC dude gets on board your ship and wanders about willy-nilly, perhaps your gangway security was not perfect. Big ISPS problems there.

Perhaps we could start a thread outlining the deficiencies in Port State Control Officers. Most are dedicated to their task of protecting life and the environment but as in all professions there are the knaves, chancers, liars, bullies and downright dishonest thugs. 
Seagoing personnel rarely take them on as the Manager/Owner wants the ship out ASAP and will accept everything short of a detention.

Comments?


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## Varley

It is not only onboard that industry shies from tackling officialdom or even the customer side organisations, each with its own auditor posses. The diamond D put the shoulder to the GCBS wheel (General Chamber of British Shipping, the British chamber affiliated to the international chamber) quite energetically but when faced with arrest due to 'discovered' deficiencies caused by a blatantly incompetent, else dishonest, arrival on the UK Register immediate capitulation was the order of the day. In my last post I could not even discover if we had representation with any lobby affiliated with the ICS (International Chamber of Shipping). We did have a relatively close relationship with our local Marine Admin. and on one occasion climbed over the garden fence to fetch a newly minted exemption at the weekend, they used to be next door. (Edit: I meant to include that this compared with the urge to simply power the running light of the Shi_plant with a battery to fool the Federal Seascouts)

Having got that out of my craw I have to say that the discoveries made by reputable PSC are usually bona fide and if anything has changed in my culture it is the eagerness to discover 'non conformities' so as to rectify them ASAP or, when excusable to have one, have a nicely polished flag state exemption to hand. It is the earnestness with which they seek to discover those defects that flags them as opposition.


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## sternchallis

Engine Serang said:


> If a Coastguard guy or a PSC dude gets on board your ship and wanders about willy-nilly, perhaps your gangway security was not perfect. Big ISPS problems there.
> Comments?


ISPS did not raise its head until after 9/11, I worked for a company called MUSC ( about 2004/5) editing do***ents and Ship & Port plans to produce these ISPS plans/books, which no doubt once read would gather a layer of dust in the Old Mans bookcase. So prior to that anybody could walk on a ship.

Though being Coastguard, had probably never been to sea and was an ex graduate that knew the rule book but had no common sense or knew how a ship worked and had not made his quota of arrests that month. If he was dressed like that he obviously had no idea of Health & Safety, even in those days when it was not an industry or a buzz word, just common sense.
We had some young Coastguard chap down in the States (1980's) wanting to make sure our sewerage was not going over the side. The ship had some ballast tank with a tiny pump on down the tunnel that the C/Eng convinced him was were the sewage was going. But the pump had never worked in years so went over the side. He did not even trace the lines or try the valves which were gate valves, so the spindle was never exposed when open.
On a new ship, attempted to start the Hamworthy sewage unit, but the Grocer complained of smells from a deck vent, so told to shut it down. It was the type you put nasty (rubber glove job) chemical balls in , and had an air pump for agitation.


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## Dave Lambert

ISPS was not implemented until July 2004. In the 90's accommodation ladder controls were a lot less stringent. Having said that he should still have made the Master and myself aware of his presence. Just a different time to nowadays!


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## Dave Lambert

To keep this going - another ship another time in Seattle. Coastguard did an inspection and I took the two ringer round the E.R showed him everything he wanted. Firstly he wanted the Hamworthy sewage machine shut down because it was discharging overboard which was not allowed. Gently explained that the discharge was chlorinated treated water as per the USCG plate on the machine. Then his boss ( a three ringer) got upset when the two ringer had not witnessed the diesel engine driven emergency fire pump. He got in quite a lather and started reading the riot act about failings before I could explain that with an emergency generator we had an electric pump. Once he had calmed down we had a bit of a laugh.


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## sternchallis

Dave Lambert said:


> ISPS was not implemented until July 2004. In the 90's accommodation ladder controls were a lot less stringent. Having said that he should still have made the Master and myself aware of his presence. Just a different time to nowadays!


Yes I aggree, its sort of trespassing, common courtesy to introduce yourself to somebody in authority.

Your follow on post more or less mirrors my comments about them.

Aren't you glad we are out of the game now. No fun anymore going to sea by the sound of it. What with Bridge teams, ER teams, check lists for everything and books of regulations carried as ballast. How did we sail round the world without the office emailing every hour, they could only send telegrams paying by the word, so it had to be important for the supers and owners to send one to the ship.
We had well run, maintained ships that worked hard and partied hard and pretty good feeders. We never had field days like these tanker people did, in fact I had to ask at college what one was when they were talking about them.


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## Farmer John

Bureaucracy can have massive powers. My boss came home one day to find the VAT inspector in his house, checking the contents of his freezer.


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## sternchallis

Farmer John said:


> Bureaucracy can have massive powers. My boss came home one day to find the VAT inspector in his house, checking the contents of his freezer.


Yes , I understand that the HMRC are the only ones that *don't* need a search warrant to search your house, unlike the police.


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## Engine Serang

# 66
" We did have a relatively close relationship with our local Marine Admin. and on one occasion climbed over the garden fence to fetch a newly minted exemption at the weekend"

The only reason to climb the fence of a weekend would be to get to said officials wife or daughters, taking in to account the age of consent. Don't want our collar felt.


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## Varley

1) It was longer by road. 2) No wives taken to work 3) Daughters ugly.


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## Dave Lambert

That was the joy of leaving port. Two position reports a week - Monday and Friday - no emails or bat phone calls. Telegrams too expensive in gold francs. No one bothered you and you ran the vessel the way it had to be. Now the office wants to run ships from ashore. Before my last deep sea trip, I was always in strife for suggesting the office come and do the job onboard seeing they were so good- instead of pestering me! The times I had batphone calls at ungodly hours for some stupid request and when you answered tersely the question was always "oh what time is it with you" - usually 0230 or something similar. God we'd only just got home from the bar!


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## ccurtis1

On a routine inspection of the crankcase on I think a Palm Line Doxford, we found the bottom of the crankcase littered with wood. It would appear that after some crankcase work, the planking had been forgotten about and left in place and the engine started. What slightly amazed us is that there was no fall in the lub oil pressure even though the filters were quite contaminated. It took quite a while for the wood to be cleared away and there was no visible damage to the engine.


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## Ian J. Huckin

Crankcase inspections were ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS worth it. So what if you found nothing? what it did was set a standard of professionalism for all aspects of crankcase work..it led to responsibility and accountability...something so sadly lacking these days.

I have lost count of how many crankcase, scavenge and exhaust inspections I did over 28 years, from apprentice to C/E on Doxfords, Sulzers, Gotaverkens, B&W and MAN. Only ever found broken glass from busted lights and occasionally some lock wire.

The moment you think that they are a waste of time then so is any other inspection that should be carried out...might as well just say "screw it" turn it on at one end and turn it off at the other. A true Marine Engineer is not like that.

But you all miss the best part...when you dive in with your buddies you usually have a hang over, reek of garlic and fart like troopers. You moan and whine for a few hours then after the doors are shut you grab a case of beer on deck and just enjoy the camaradie and BS...all missed if you think crankcase inspections are a waste of time...


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## tunatownshipwreck

I don't remember who said it, but I remember: "There is never a job worth doing that is not worth doing well".


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## Micky Bodill

Not the crankcase but nearly. Kept finding sheared 1 1/4" bolt heads on the bottom plates. Traced it to the camshaft couplings on the B + W 8 cylinder engine. Spent a lovely 3 days non stop drilling the old ones out using only a rachet drill. 5 couplings 8 bolts in each. it seems the alignment had been wrong for ages.


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## Phil Randall

*Phil Randall*

We regularly did crankcase inspections at Suez or Panama on our way from UK to Aus or Nz. I once found three of the four bolts on one unit main crosshead slide broken and one loose. Fortunately the Port Sydney had two engines (twin six Doxford). We spent most of the trip up the Red Sea drilling and tapping out the culprits in hot and humid conditions. As to the value of those inspections, priceless!!.
Wonderful years and memorable experiences.
Phil R.


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## sternchallis

Curtis , they didn't call Doxfords rockcrushers for nothing, big Victorian enginering lump as as they were.
PhilRandal, seems like Doxfords are known for guide and xhead bolts going.
I put a post up on the Doxford post on a side rod coming through a cc door and a top piston coming out and crunching the top water jacket . Side rod like a banana.
Not a pretty sight.
Like you we were a twin so could keep going to Panama. Went through on two engines.


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## JohnBP

After some minor issues with # 3, (not really but a long story) we pulled into in Durban then we sailed to the Gulf. While there I was asked to check #3 crankcase for any issues. I found a wrench and part of a small tool box not in the sump but on a ledge in #3 crankcase.... 2nd was impressed.


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## sternchallis

JohnBP said:


> After some minor issues with # 3, (not really but a long story) we pulled into in Durban then we sailed to the Gulf. While there I was asked to check #3 crankcase for any issues. I found a wrench and part of a small tool box not in the sump but on a ledge in #3 crankcase.... 2nd was impressed.


It just shows how well balanced those engines were, no vibration causing said findings to drop in the cc bottom. Did you find the fitter whose tool box it was?


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## Engine Serang

He was in the lub oil suction strainer.


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## A.D.FROST

sternchallis said:


> It just shows how well balanced those engines were, no vibration causing said findings to drop in the cc bottom. Did you find the fitter whose tool box it was?


Thats why you should never mark your gear in case it was found were it shouldn't be.When I was serving my time in maintenance the journey man I was working with was getting sick of repairing other peoples phuk ups so he decided to mark his work,that's until it came back to bite him in the arz(That's what apprentices are for.)(Ouch)


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## Les Gibson

Engine Serang,
that's a cracker! (No.84)


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## k.atkinson

Standing on a plank inside the crankcase to remove the piston rod nut the third and myself took it in turns to slacken the nut using a three-foot long flogging spanner and a 56lb hammer (half an anvil). Usual practice was tighten with a 14 and slacken with a 28. I have only ever seen another sledge hammer of that size and would have liked to have met the man who tightened it and asked him if he had ever heard of metallurgy.


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## sternchallis

k.atkinson said:


> Standing on a plank inside the crankcase to remove the piston rod nut the third and myself took it in turns to slacken the nut using a three-foot long flogging spanner and a 56lb hammer (half an anvil). Usual practice was tighten with a 14 and slacken with a 28. I have only ever seen another sledge hammer of that size and would have liked to have met the man who tightened it and asked him if he had ever heard of metallurgy.


A 56lb (or full hammer) takes a bit of swinging at the best of times, the only time I have seen a 56lb hammer used was as an apprentice when the labourers used to flog off the prop nut on a trawler, which would have been about 24" a/f, brass. They would be up on staging also, set up on large wooden sawhorse type things, none of this scaffolding or cherry pickers, safety harnesses or safety helmets then yet I never heard of an accident.

The 28lb hammer we knew as a Half hammer, 14lb as a 1/4. Some fitters carried a 7lb'er in their tool boxes with a much shortened shaft to use as a hand hammer on steam cylinder cover bolts and an 1-1/4" flogging ring, which is a ring spanner cut in half and shortened a bit more.
As fitters we would carry from 1/8" BSW to at least 3/4" in ring and open open jaw, 2 1/4 or 3 1/2 lb hammer , 1" cold chisels, 12" Bahco plus other odds and ends in a hefty steel tool box with a lock on. It was a labourers job to get them from the quay to the ER or wherever you was working.


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