# Over and out!



## DICK SLOAN (Jan 19, 2007)

What was the most important radio message you had to make while serving as a ships radio officer.


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## John Rogers (May 11, 2004)

Isn't Over and Out in-correct, I am no radio man but in the army we were taught its either OVER,while still talking, and OUT when you are finished with transmission,only Hollywood uses Over and Out. Not criticizing Dick just asking.

John.


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## King Ratt (Aug 23, 2005)

Quite correct JR. Only used in films or some do***entaries by non-maritime types. Have a look at various postings on this site under Wick Radio/GKR. Quite a few comments in there.


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## gadgee (Jul 24, 2005)

Well said John. Steam comes out of my ears whenever I hear "over and out". I taught comms in HM Coastguard and said either one or the other, but never both at the same time.


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## Coastie (Aug 24, 2005)

Quite right, Paul! What WOULD they say at the College of Knowledge??(EEK) (EEK) (Jester)


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## James_C (Feb 17, 2005)

Roger isn't technically correct either although everyone uses it in the affirmitive regardless. Of course this harks back to the days of dits and dahs when Sparkies used 'R' to indicate acknowledgement of a message.
However, the Australians teach it as 'Romeo' as that's the corresponding pronunciation for R and they get rather upset when you hint that it's perhaps a bit 'unmanly'....
Colonials, eh?
(Hippy)


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## John Rogers (May 11, 2004)

Jim,another word we were taught not to use on army radios was "REPEAT",the correct words was "SAY AGAIN", "REPEAT" was used for artillery to rain all kinds of steel rain on your position,a hell of a pucker factor.

John.


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## makko (Jul 20, 2006)

Radio etiquette in spanish uses "cambio" (over) and "fuera" (out). The end of the message is always "cambio y fuera", over and out! Then again, I am an engineer and very radio "Un-Sabe"!
Rgds.
Dave


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## DICK SLOAN (Jan 19, 2007)

ROGER THAT? Oooops


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## gadgee (Jul 24, 2005)

John
Yes you and I sing from the same hymn sheet. There is no such word as repeat in maritime and aviation radio procedure.


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## John Rogers (May 11, 2004)

Very true Paul,when your trained well you remember what you were taught and it remains with you forever.

John.


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## Coastie (Aug 24, 2005)

One of the common gaffe's I have noticed and, yes, I HAVE said it myself, is "Roger, that's received"!


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## DICK SLOAN (Jan 19, 2007)

Exactly?


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## Pat bourke (Jun 30, 2007)

Interesting that not too many of us ex R/O's responded to this thread. I wonder why???.Cheers Pat.


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## John Rogers (May 11, 2004)

"ROGER THAT" Pat.

John.


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## trotterdotpom (Apr 29, 2005)

James_C said:


> Roger isn't technically correct either although everyone uses it in the affirmitive regardless. Of course this harks back to the days of dits and dahs when Sparkies used 'R' to indicate acknowledgement of a message.
> However, the Australians teach it as 'Romeo' as that's the corresponding pronunciation for R and they get rather upset when you hint that it's perhaps a bit 'unmanly'....
> Colonials, eh?
> (Hippy)


"ROGER" comes form the oldtime phonetic alphabet "ABLE, BAKER," etc, as used in WW2 films. "ROMEO" is from the current phonetc alphabet for letter "R".

Perusal of a few posts about "Seaspeak", the simplified English for Marine use, imply that the current correct phrase is "Received".

Radio communications are in daily use at my workplace and the words "Roger" and "Copy that", are endemic, usually said in an American accent due their adoption from the DVDs which the users inhabit.

John T.


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## billyboy (Jul 6, 2005)

Thats a big 10/4 good buddy ...LOL


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## dom (Feb 10, 2006)

*dom*

i take it then if your a Romeo you dont get Rogered,over and out


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## Tai Pan (Mar 24, 2006)

Qsl K


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## Mimcoman (May 18, 2008)

To get back to the original question...

"When am I due off?"

--------------------------
Re the maritime radio procedures:
While I appreciate the aim of standard procedures is to ease communciations, I remain to be convinced that the best use of them is exactly as per the book, which can lead to delays while people make sure that everything "looks and sounds correct". I think that procedures should serve as a guide and not be set in stone. Some comms and broadcasts during incidents sound so stilted and pompous that it makes your teeth grind! I have also heard comms - especially with foreign (sorry: people who do not have English as their first language) radio users- where the use of "correct" procedure is not understood and is not helping but is persisted with regardless of the outcome.

My own personal preference is to use the KISS technique in conjuction with well-known prowords (eg: over, out, say again, roger, etc). But you won't pass your exams this way, of course....

This is all in conjunction with speaking clearly, rhythmically and slowly; far too many people seem to feel that it is professional to speak in a quick, clipped, staccato manner. 

As to cringe-making comms: my own bete noir is to hear someone announce that a broadcast will be made on eg vhf channels 23/84/86 and also on "MF 2226 kHz" or whatever - is that as opposed to HF 2226 or LF 2226 or what? 

Rant over - my own radio comms are, of course, peerless and without fault (not).

Mimcoman


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## trotterdotpom (Apr 29, 2005)

dom said:


> i take it then if your a Romeo you dont get Rogered,over and out


Well, it takes two to TANGO.

John T.


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## dom (Feb 10, 2006)

*dom*

indubitably


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## mikeg (Aug 24, 2006)

James_C said:


> Roger isn't technically correct either although everyone uses it in the affirmitive regardless. Of course this harks back to the days of dits and dahs when Sparkies used 'R' to indicate acknowledgement of a message.
> However, the Australians teach it as 'Romeo' as that's the corresponding pronunciation for R and they get rather upset when you hint that it's perhaps a bit 'unmanly'....
> Colonials, eh?
> (Hippy)


Rodger remains technically correct in aviation terms to this day _(Quote CAA CAP413)_ though as meaning: " 'I have received all your last transmission' Note: Under no cir***stances to be used in reply to a question requiring a direct answer in the affirmative (AFFIRM) or negative NEGATIVE) "

Could be why its still used elsewhere.


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## DICK SLOAN (Jan 19, 2007)

"Do you copy"


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## RayJordandpo (Feb 23, 2006)

Whe I did my GMDSS course we were told that for the voice that comes over the air as the easiest to understand phonetically is a high pitched voice with an Irish accent (or was the instructor taking the p...)


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## BobDixon (Oct 17, 2008)

trotterdotpom said:


> Perusal of a few posts about "Seaspeak", the simplified English for Marine use, imply that the current correct phrase is "Received".


Certified log extracts always has to show it as "Received"


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## Sister Eleff (Nov 28, 2006)

Teaching younger people to 'slow up', they normally seem to speak in fast shorthand which doesn't help in coms. The best way for them to understand and get the message; when another young newie is on the radio!


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## hughesy (Dec 18, 2007)

Always thought them Norwegian lasses sounded good over the air.

all the best
Hughesy(Thumb)


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## trotterdotpom (Apr 29, 2005)

RayJordandpo said:


> Whe I did my GMDSS course we were told that for the voice that comes over the air as the easiest to understand phonetically is a high pitched voice with an Irish accent (or was the instructor taking the p...)


It doesn't hurt to repeat your message....to be sure, to be sure.

John T.


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## Gareth Jones (Jul 13, 2007)

mikeg said:


> Rodger remains technically correct in aviation terms to this day _(Quote CAA CAP413)_ though as meaning: " 'I have received all your last transmission' Note: Under no cir***stances to be used in reply to a question requiring a direct answer in the affirmative (AFFIRM) or negative NEGATIVE) "
> 
> Could be why its still used elsewhere.


 If you google CAA CAP413 you can see the complete UK aviation R/T manual. I've briefly glanced through it and what stands out is the complete difference in requirements between the aviation and maritime services.

Ships are free agents to come and go (and communicate) as they will - aircraft in the air are rigidly controlled in their movements. The ground controllers are the captains!

Maritime radio traffic is essentially (distress excepted) the exchange of telegrams and telephone calls of relatively low priority end of story.

Aviation radio traffic however is of a much higher priority involving safety of life at almost all times. A misunderstanding can mean a crash or collision. So the need for clearly understood internationally agreed phrases to aid the speed of communications is obvious.

When I trained as a Maritime Radio Officer I was not taught about Roger and Wilco etc, they were not part of the international maritime procedures, and I doubt that they are now. 

I spent 4 years as an operator at Northforeland Radio in the 1960's and R/T traffic was very heavy. Our priority was to connect them as quickly as possible and say goodbye as quickly as possible, and get on the the next one ! If I'd started Wilcoing and Rogering Foreign ships the O/C would have kicked my ass pretty quick !


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## Oz. (Sep 6, 2005)

Dom, your comment #18 is brilliant. Missus came in and asked what was the joke. I explained it to her, she said, 'Oh, but who is Roger?'.


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## Naytikos (Oct 20, 2008)

I believe Post 25 to be correct. On my first greek ship most of the officers told me I was much more difficult to understand than 'an Irish marconi'.


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## DICK SLOAN (Jan 19, 2007)

What language was you talking in...


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## charles henry (May 18, 2008)

Never used RT professionally but visiting remote villages in Labrador found that they used HF RT.
OVER, meant " am listening, you talk"
OVER AND OUT mean, You talk, I am finished and will not reply except in answer to a specific question.
Sorry to return to the original point of the thread and didnt mean to pontificate, but as someone said once, "It had to be said!!"

de chas


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## Sister Eleff (Nov 28, 2006)

I stilll have to meet 'Roger Wilco'!


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## billyboy (Jul 6, 2005)

Anyone know what a "willdowover is ? used to hear it often on a taxi radio ...LOL


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## dom (Feb 10, 2006)

*dom*



Sister Eleff said:


> I stilll have to meet 'Roger Wilco'!


pick you up tonight for a drink


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## spongebob (Dec 11, 2007)

Naytikos, was that an Irish Macaroni ?


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## Naytikos (Oct 20, 2008)

Dick: I thought it was English without a regional accent - perhaps that was the problem....! I learnt Greek PDQ and then all was fine.
Bob: On Greek ships macaroni is always served as the first course for lunch on Thursdays and Sundays, that's the law. So at 1200 hours Marconi goes to eat Macaroni (without having to flog the log as discussed on another thread).


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## DICK SLOAN (Jan 19, 2007)

Understood....Over


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## RayJordandpo (Feb 23, 2006)

I sailed with an ex RN surveyor, he had us all in stitches when he told a story about a survey they where doing on a beach near Dover. They had a landrover at their disposal and had to keep in contact with their base, the quickest way back to base being to go under a bridge but had to get permission from HQ, he said the conversation went something like "Shall we bring the landrover back to Dover over" the reply was "yes bring the rover back to Dover over but don't go under the bridge go over over" "Roger wilco, bringing the rover back to Dover over, but not going under over going over over"

A friend of mine was in the fire brigade, they once went to a farm to put out a fire in a stable and make it safe. He said the report over the radio was "The stable that was unstable has now been made stable"


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