# Mtb Daring



## Jeff. J.

As a young lad in the late 1950's I was in the 35th. Westminster Sea Scouts troop in London, meeting weekly in Pimlico.
Our training vessel was the MTB DARING I believe she was formerly a MOTOR TORPEDO BOAT and she was moored just below Lambeth Bridge on the opposite side of the river to the Houses of Parliament.
She was there for many years, one would often see her on TV, newspapers and postcards, in the foreground to shots taken of the H of P and Big Ben.
Does anyone remember this vessel?
If so and if they have any pix of her would they kindly post them on this site I'd be eternally grateful.
Coincidently there are 2 of us former Pommie sea scouts,now living in Hobart, Tasmania who spent many happy hours on board the DARING learning knots and semaphore etc. instilling in us our love of ships and the sea with us both having sea going careers as a result. 
It will give us something more tangible to reminisce about!!
Cheers and Beers from Aussieland.
-------------
Jeff. J.


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## scorcher

...."Our training vessel was the MTB DARING I believe she was formerly a MOTOR TORPEDO BOAT and she was moored just below Lambeth Bridge on the opposite side of the river to the Houses of Parliament."

Hi Jeff I photographed this from a book of the Festival of London 1951.
I know it is not the location of your vessel but thought it may trigger
memories of other members.


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## Jeff. J.

Thanks for that scorcher, it's an interesting old picture, with much water having gone under the bridge since!! Lets hope it does trigger someones memory.
I also contacted the Sea Scouts website in London a while back, but they didn't even have the decency to acknowledge my inquiry!!
I'm keeping my fingers crossed.
Cheers
-------
Jeff


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## Richard Culligan

*MTB Daring*



Jeff. J. said:


> Thanks for that scorcher, it's an interesting old picture, with much water having gone under the bridge since!! Lets hope it does trigger someones memory.
> I also contacted the Sea Scouts website in London a while back, but they didn't even have the decency to acknowledge my inquiry!!
> I'm keeping my fingers crossed.
> Cheers
> -------
> Jeff


Hi 

I have just registered as a member of this website and spotted your message. I was also a member of the 35th Westminster Sea Scouts (1960 - 1967) and remember the MTB we used as a base off the Decca Pier. Like you also went to sea via the Merchant Navy.

I have spoken to another ex 35th member and he said the first boat was MTB136 and the second was an RML. 

I have had no luck researching the internet for pictures but my contact has unfortunately been ill for a couple of weeks and is currently recovering. On his return from recuperation he will (no guarantees) see if he has any photos.

Cheers

Richard


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## Jeff. J.

Many thanks for all your efforts Richard, they're very much appreciated
Will send you an email via the administrator.
Regards
-------
Jeff


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## stein

Maybe this text found on the net might be of interest:
University of Hull, do***ents. November 1952 - September 1955

File. 35th City of Westminster Sea Scouts. MTB [Motor Torpedo Boat]. Correspondence about loan of MTB to Group by The Admiralty


File. 35th City of Westminster Sea Scouts. MTB [Motor Torpedo Boat] 743. Correspondence, including refit programmes


File. 35th City of Westminster Sea Scouts. MTB [Motor Torpedo Boat] 743. Correspondence about MTB's transfer to Chelsea Yacht and Boat Company


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## chadburn

MTB 743 is the ubiquitous Fairmile "D", most but not all were stripped out and loaned to Sea Cadet's/ Sea Scout's throughout England after the War (I remember Scarborough's very well) and they loved them. Unfortunatly by the mid 1950's they were showing problem's with Dry Rot and were scrapped, either chopped up or burnt after their metal fitting's were salvaged. I am "fairly" sure Scarborough's Fairmile D was towed into the South Bay and given a Viking send off, unless someone else know's different of course


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## Ron Stringer

chadburn said:


> MTB 743 is the ubiquitous Fairmile "D", most but not all were stripped out and loaned to Sea Cadet's/ Sea Scout's throughout England after the War (


My wife has fond memories of time spent in the 1950s on a Girl Guide/Sea Rangers MTB at Dartmouth. Apparently the two Princesses also spent time on there.


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## Richard Culligan

stein said:


> Maybe this text found on the net might be of interest:
> University of Hull, do***ents. November 1952 - September 1955
> 
> File. 35th City of Westminster Sea Scouts. MTB [Motor Torpedo Boat]. Correspondence about loan of MTB to Group by The Admiralty
> 
> 
> File. 35th City of Westminster Sea Scouts. MTB [Motor Torpedo Boat] 743. Correspondence, including refit programmes
> 
> 
> File. 35th City of Westminster Sea Scouts. MTB [Motor Torpedo Boat] 743. Correspondence about MTB's transfer to Chelsea Yacht and Boat Company


I did find reference to the 35th Westminster in papers at Hull but could not access them. Did I miss something?


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## Richard Culligan

chadburn said:


> MTB 743 is the ubiquitous Fairmile "D", most but not all were stripped out and loaned to Sea Cadet's/ Sea Scout's throughout England after the War (I remember Scarborough's very well) and they loved them. Unfortunatly by the mid 1950's they were showing problem's with Dry Rot and were scrapped, either chopped up or burnt after their metal fitting's were salvaged. I am "fairly" sure Scarborough's Fairmile D was towed into the South Bay and given a Viking send off, unless someone else know's different of course


There is still at least one MTB seaworthy that is MTB 102 an ex Dunkirk vessel. I was involved with it until about the year 2000 then had to give up due to eyesight issues. It is now based at Oulton Broad near Lowestoft.


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## chadburn

MTB 102 is a superb boat and well looked after from what I have seen, she was built in the "old fashioned" way of boat building. Fairmile D's were built in the pre-fabricated Wartime way like Mosquito's when a lot of plywood and glue was used which led to their early demise due to poor bilge ventilation.


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## Richard Culligan

Jeff. J. said:


> Many thanks for all your efforts Richard, they're very much appreciated
> Will send you an email via the administrator.
> Regards
> -------
> Jeff


Have you sent an e-mail. Not quite used to the website yet so am wondering if I missed it?

Regards

Richard


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## Richard Culligan

chadburn said:


> MTB 102 is a superb boat and well looked after from what I have seen, she was built in the "old fashioned" way of boat building. Fairmile D's were built in the pre-fabricated Wartime way like Mosquito's when a lot of plywood and glue was used which led to their early demise due to poor bilge ventilation.


She was always maintained by the 'traditional' shipwrights. In the last few years she has been 'put back ' to the way she was designed back in 1937.

Regards

Richard


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## Richard Culligan

Jeff. J. said:


> Many thanks for all your efforts Richard, they're very much appreciated
> Will send you an email via the administrator.
> Regards
> -------
> Jeff


Jeff

Have had an update from my friend (Mike Nadin) he does not have any photos but did give me a couple of e-mail contacts. He also gave me a bit more info which I had forgotten.

The 35th took over MTB136 from the 4th Streatham in about 1953 until rot set in during, he thinks 1957/59 and then we were given the RML. The 35th left the RML, as a base, I think 1960/62, as I remember it when I joined late 1960.

The reason the 35th moved on was due to Pat Wall becoming an MP and the local SCC Daring unit no longer wanting the sea scouts around.

Regarding further photos he (Mike) has given me (1) Paul Burg - [email protected] -who was our Senior Scout Leader and and who has a lot of history and photos plus (2) Roy Masini - [email protected] - who has written a book on the history of Sea Scouting and is still a member of the 4th Steatham Sea Scout troop. 

Sorry its a long message please let me know your thoughts.

Regards

Richard (R846959)


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## Jeff. J.

Hi Richard
Thanks for the above information, it's much appreciated. I'll try and contact the people your friend Mike Nadin suggested.
Have you received the 2 emails I sent you? (via the SN administrator) in response to contacting one another, I don't know whether they are getting through or not!
Cheers
------
Jeff


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## Richard Culligan

Jeff. J. said:


> Hi Richard
> Thanks for the above information, it's much appreciated. I'll try and contact the people your friend Mike Nadin suggested.
> Have you received the 2 emails I sent you? (via the SN administrator) in response to contacting one another, I don't know whether they are getting through or not!
> Cheers
> ------
> Jeff


Hi Jeff.

No have not rec'd any e-mails. Have had a look on the web for the book but nothing found. Happy to contact either party, would like a couple of photos myself, if you have no luck.

Thinking on further the only name I could remember from those days rowing around in the gig was Alan Richardson who worked for Bowater plus a trip to Germany with the 35th in, I think, either 1960 or 1961.
Cheers

Richard


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## Jeff. J.

Hi again Richard
I'll try and find the emails that I thought I was sending you and re-send them again as "Private Messages" Hopefully you'll get them that way ...... if not (shoulder shrug!!) I don't know what else to do!
Cheers
--------
Jeff


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## Richard Culligan

Jeff. J. said:


> Hi again Richard
> I'll try and find the emails that I thought I was sending you and re-send them again as "Private Messages" Hopefully you'll get them that way ...... if not (shoulder shrug!!) I don't know what else to do!
> Cheers
> --------
> Jeff


Jeff

Just sent you a 'test' from my email.

Cheers

Richard


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## Jeff. J.

Richard
Received it and will reply very soon ...... well done!
Cheers
------
Jeff


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## borderreiver

As a young child used to be marched passed the MTB Daring. When I come of age Joined the 3 Hillingdon sea scouts. We used to meet up a lot with the 35 westminster sea scouts mainly at Longridrige . This was mid 50 to the late 70s.
also national events. Chris James


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## Richard Culligan

borderreiver said:


> As a young child used to be marched passed the MTB Daring. When I come of age Joined the 3 Hillingdon sea scouts. We used to meet up a lot with the 35 westminster sea scouts mainly at Longridrige . This was mid 50 to the late 70s.
> also national events. Chris James


We (the 35th) also used to meet up with other sea scouts every Easter on the Arethusa, Lower Upnor, (I remember the cross country runs!!!!) and on St Mary's Island, Chatham every Whitsun. 

Richard (R846959)


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## borderreiver

Went to a couple of the Chatham meets I believe we joined up with the 35 . In front of TV cameras we lost our main sail halyard on a RNSA18 .


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## cdsc123

Here's a couple of the views you are after, a bit distant I'm afraid.


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## Richard Culligan

Many thanks for the pictures. I do not remember 'Daring' being upstream of Lambeth Bridge. When I joined the 35th she was moored between the Decca Pier and Lambeth Bridge.

Richard (R846959)


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## Richard Culligan

Further to my message above have been told, from the colour picture, that the boat in view was the MGB belonging to the 56 Westminster Sea Scouts but you can just see the bow of the Daring under Lambeth Bridge.

I did not know that an MGB had ever been moored by the bridge and in fact cannot remember a 56th Westminster Sea Scout Group.

Richard (A846959)


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## chadburn

The vessel shown is not as you say "743" which was a Fairmile D, this vessel appear's to be a Vosper Type


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## Jeff. J.

Thanks for posting the pix cdsc123
I'm with you Richard, I can't remember the 56th Westminster Sea Scouts either.
The vessel that I'm referring to was just downstream of Lambeth Bridge, the bow of which can just be seen as you quite correctly point out.
Regards 
-------
Jeff


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## les4736

The 56th MGB was one side of the bridge and the35th RML the other between the Bridge and landing stage. The two sea scout troops did a lot together sailing on the Thames and meeting up on the two boats at Lambeth bridgeI joined the Navy in1958 and Ian Allan joined the RAF in 1959, ian belonged to the 35th. The scout master for the 35th was Dennis Besant at the time and Jack Seaton for the 56th. Bring any memories


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## Jeff. J.

Hi les4736
Thanks for your response to my original query, the thread has been going for some time now!!
I still don't have any pix of the vessel, so if you should come across any please post ...... !!
As mentioned before I don't remember the other vessel, the MGB belonging to the 56th. and I don't recall sailing in company with them either, that's not to say we didn't, I just don't remember the occasion.
Yes, I do remember Dennis Besant, he was our scout master at the 35th. and took us sailing in our cutter (or perhaps it was a whaler?) on one occasion to the Thames estuary where I remember one of our lads broke his finger whilst coming alongside a moored barge in the fog!! I think his name was Carl ?
I believe Dennis lived near Olympia in West London and I lived not too far away in Earls Court and would occasionally get a lift home with him following scout meeting nights.
I joined the Arethusa Training Ship moored on the Medway nr. Chatham in 1961 and finally went to sea in the Merchant Navy in 1962/3 so I guess I'm a few years younger than you. 
I live in Hobart, Tasmania now and have done for some 45 years (almost an Aussie now!!) Residing here in Hobart is another former 35th Westminster sea scout by the name of Alan Marshall whom I only recently met and coincidently was in the cutter/whaler with me during the aforementioned incident in the fog ...... small world indeed!!
He's a little older than I so perhaps you or Ian Allan may remember him. 
Thanks also for rekindling some old memories.
Regards
--------
Jeff


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## Rights of Man

*35th Westminster Sea Scouts*

I have just found this site by chance.
I was the Troop Leader for 35th Westminster. I joined in about 1955 and left probably in 1960 after becoming a Queens Scout. Denis Besant and Jeff Preshner were the Scout masters and I remember also Jack Corner- Halligan.
“Daring “ was moored immediately downstream from Lambeth Bridge between the Bridge and PLA Lambeth Pier opposite Lambeth Palace where Cptn Bligh is buried.
Upsteam of the Bridge was another vessel an MTB used by the 56th Westminster , then there was “Massey Shaw” the LCC fire boat and lastly the landing craft “Hardy”. “Hardy” and “Daring “ were used by both the 35th and the 56th Sea scouts and also the Sea Cadets as Jeff Preshner was also an officer in the SCF.
My memory needs a jolt at the moment. I know at one time “Daring” was replaced with Rescue Motor launch and indeed the interior was fitted out for accommodation and was a very different configuration to the MTB.
I am sure that I have photos of her blue hull with white gunwale and red waterline and large markings “RML 346” although speaking to my brother he thinks it may have been RML thee something else.
I remember booms from the hull to hold the three whalers away from her hull when the wind was against the tide.
I will look through my old photos and see what i can come up with and also read through all the submissions.


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## Rights of Man

_I live in Hobart, Tasmania now and have done for some 45 years (almost an Aussie now!!) Residing here in Hobart is another former 35th Westminster sea scout by the name of Alan Marshall whom I only recently met and coincidently was in the cutter/whaler with me during the aforementioned incident in the fog ...... small world indeed!!
He's a little older than I so perhaps you or Ian Allan may remember him. _

It really is a small world. Out of the blue I had a visit from an old school friend ( day before yesterday) He belonged to the 56th. He is over from Australia for a few days. My other half is from Hobart but she would not own up to knowing anyone from Australia just in case she did.n I do believ that i was in the whaler when the lad broke is finger. We had returned from a weekend trip to Erith . We used to tie up to moored dumbe barges and sleep in the forepeak. Some barges had wood stoves and we could usually find a bottle of booze hidden somewhere. Fish and chips never tasted better when eaten with hands soaked in Thames water- Great days - would not be permitted now.

Do any of you remember being towed from Lambeth Bridge to Upper Upnor Arethusa . There was a group of half a dozen whalers and some ex marine canoes and we were towed down by a MFV for Easter. The same MFV that took us to Treport and Fecamp the following year.


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## Richard Culligan

Yes I remember all the names you have mentioned in your first message although I did not join the 35th until late 1960 / early 1961 (can't quite remember actual date) and left at Easter 1967 to join the MN. 
The Massy Shaw kept going for years and as she was a 'Dunkirk Little Ship' I was on a couple of Dunkirk convoys with her when I was involved with the MTB102. 
Don't remember being towed to Lower Upnor at all so assume it was before my time. It would be great if you did have some old photos as I have had no luck at all in finding any.

Richard


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## les4736

Rights of Man said:


> I have just found this site by chance.
> I was the Troop Leader for 35th Westminster. I joined in about 1955 and left probably in 1960 after becoming a Queens Scout. Denis Besant and Jeff Preshner were the Scout masters and I remember also Jack Corner- Halligan.
> “Daring “ was moored immediately downstream from Lambeth Bridge between the Bridge and PLA Lambeth Pier opposite Lambeth Palace where Cptn Bligh is buried.
> Upsteam of the Bridge was another vessel an MTB used by the 56th Westminster , then there was “Massey Shaw” the LCC fire boat and lastly the landing craft “Hardy”. “Hardy” and “Daring “ were used by both the 35th and the 56th Sea scouts and also the Sea Cadets as Jeff Preshner was also an officer in the SCF.
> My memory needs a jolt at the moment. I know at one time “Daring” was replaced with Rescue Motor launch and indeed the interior was fitted out for accommodation and was a very different configuration to the MTB.
> I am sure that I have photos of her blue hull with white gunwale and red waterline and large markings “RML 346” although speaking to my brother he thinks it may have been RML thee something else.
> I remember booms from the hull to hold the three whalers away from her hull when the wind was against the tide.
> I will look through my old photos and see what i can come up with and also read through all the submissions.


I joined the 56th Westminster in 1955 and got my Queens scout February 1957, and spent many a weekend on the MTB and the RML.
We used hardy for our boat repairs, barbecues and as a meeting place for all the scouts at some time or another.
Jeff Preshner also was a scout master with the 56th along with Jack Seaton, and the group scout master was H M Pinnel who had a 75 foot motor yacht at Uppnor, which Jeff myself and a few other used to crew it for him. Ian Allen belonged to the 35th and we used to be together all the time on thames, maybe you remember him.
I will try and find some photos of the old times and put them on.
By7 the way my name is Les Couling you might remember me as we were in the scouts at the same time.


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## Richard Culligan

Les

Have been digging out old papers re the time my family moved into Westminster. I think it was either late 1959 or early 1960 but am not sure when my Mother took me to the 35th to join. I do remember going on a scout trip to Europe (Germany staying in YMCA hostels) but can't remenber when that was. 
I regret to say I can not remember you but do remember Jeff also can you remind me re the connection re the 56th and 35th Westminster did they amalgamate?
I left at Easter 1967 (when I joined the Rovers) during my final stay on the Arethusa to go into the MN.


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## Rights of Man

*35th and 56th*

When I left the 35th they were going strong and had not amalgamated. I remember Jack Seaton as he had a newsagents shop just round the corner from where I lived. He was always more serious than the scout masters of the 35th. Nice guy though.

I joined when the 35th met at Milbank School then moved to Tintagel House basement near Ebury Bridge and the BOAC building in Victoria. I am surprised and disappointed that I cannot remember more names. Does anyone remember sailing on Heathcoat Amory's yacht "Atlantis" I believe it was called.

It was sailing with the scouts that got me into owning a wooden schooner, sail training and being always poor and short of money. Would not have swapped it for the world.


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## Richard Culligan

I remember Milbank School and Tintagel House (bingo sessions each week?). In fact many years later when at sea I received a telegram from my parents saying thay had moved from Stillington Street (Army Quarters) to Dryburgh House which was next to Tintagel House.

Also didn't we also used to met above a swimming pool opposite Victoria Station where the band used to practice (I had a go at playing a side drum).

I think remember the name 'Atlantis' but not sure if I sailed on her - though did sail on one yacht on a weeks trip to the Channel Isles (Alderney?).


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## cdsc123

Jeff

I hope these views are useful;


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## Jeff. J.

Hi cdsc123
Thanks for your response by sending these views.
I presume that these are of Lambeth Bridge and the former sea scout training vessel the former MTB DARING.
Memory is a strange thing, I always thought that the DARING was painted black and that she was alongside the pontoon? 
Mind you my memories go back to the late 50's/early 60's. and time does warp ones memory!!
When were these pix taken?
Sorry for my late reply to you, I haven't been near my emails for ages.
Kind regards and wish you a happy New Year
-------
Jeff (Thumb)


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## Richard Culligan

Jeff. J. said:


> Hi cdsc123
> Thanks for your response by sending these views.
> I presume that these are of Lambeth Bridge and the former sea scout training vessel the former MTB DARING.
> Memory is a strange thing, I always thought that the DARING was painted black and that she was alongside the pontoon?
> Mind you my memories go back to the late 50's/early 60's. and time does warp ones memory!!
> When were these pix taken?
> Sorry for my late reply to you, I haven't been near my emails for ages.
> Kind regards and wish you a happy New Year
> -------
> Jeff (Thumb)


Jeff

Yes believe they are of Westminster Bridge and the Daring. Ah memories - I don't remember her being alongside the pontoon (Decca Pier) as the Decca Navigator vessel was usually there. Didn't we have to use a gig to get on board?

Regards and belated Happy New Year to you.

Richard


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## Jeff. J.

Hi again Richard
Regarding the Decca Pier, I think you're right in the use of the gig to get aboard, I now vaguely remember!! (now that the memory has been jogged)
Are you sure that that is Westminster Bridge?
I still believe that the pier was almost at Lambeth Bridge on the south side of the river.
Regards & thanks again.
------
Jeff (Thumb)


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## Richard Culligan

Jeff. J. said:


> Hi again Richard
> Regarding the Decca Pier, I think you're right in the use of the gig to get aboard, I now vaguely remember!! (now that the memory has been jogged)
> Are you sure that that is Westminster Bridge?
> I still believe that the pier was almost at Lambeth Bridge on the south side of the river.
> Regards & thanks again.
> ------
> Jeff (Thumb)


Jeff

Your right it is Lambeth Bridge - it's my brain that is not functioning properly today!!

Regards

Richard


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## Mick2150

I'm coming in late to this thread, but it has brought back memories. In Sept '58 I arrived in London to start work. I had been in the 29th Newport, Mon Sea Scouts for some years & in order to find some friends, went to Scout HQ on Buckingham Palace Rd to get an introduction; and thus ended up in the 35th. Dennis B was the SM. Does anyone else recall that the 35th was so large that it had to split into 3 troops? At the time we were meeting under Tintagel House; I became an ASM but I can't remember to which troop. BTW, I do certainly recall Mike Nadin.

I clearly remember taking a crew of 3 or 4 scouts to crew Heathcote Amory's Atlantis (cld that be spelt Ailanthus?). Cmdr Walter Scott was the liaison and we sailed out of the Medway. Walter Scott was also instrumental in allowing us to have w/end sleepovers on HMS Discovery, which at the time was the Flagship of the Admiral Commanding Reserve, London.

It is interesting to note that as a result of scouts being asked to crew Atlantis, the key players - Amory, Scott, Major Pat Wall & later 'Tiny' Mathews - got together to initiate what became the London Sailing Project. It was at the same time, July 1960 that for the 1st time, the UK Sea Scouts chose to enter the Tall Ships Race, Oslo to Ostende. I ended up being the reserve 'watch leader' & took a group of 6 scout reserves to Oslo as stand by crew. Were any of the 35th involved in that Tall Ships? 

Sailing remains a hobby; in fact this past Xmas I chartered in the British Virgins .... 

And, to Jeff - Thanks, it worked!

Michael Ford.


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## Richard Culligan

Mick2150 said:


> I'm coming in late to this thread, but it has brought back memories. In Sept '58 I arrived in London to start work. I had been in the 29th Newport, Mon Sea Scouts for some years & in order to find some friends, went to Scout HQ on Buckingham Palace Rd to get an introduction; and thus ended up in the 35th. Dennis B was the SM. Does anyone else recall that the 35th was so large that it had to split into 3 troops? At the time we were meeting under Tintagel House; I became an ASM but I can't remember to which troop. BTW, I do certainly recall Mike Nadin.
> 
> I clearly remember taking a crew of 3 or 4 scouts to crew Heathcote Amory's Atlantis (cld that be spelt Ailanthus?). Cmdr Walter Scott was the liaison and we sailed out of the Medway. Walter Scott was also instrumental in allowing us to have w/end sleepovers on HMS Discovery, which at the time was the Flagship of the Admiral Commanding Reserve, London.
> 
> It is interesting to note that as a result of scouts being asked to crew Atlantis, the key players - Amory, Scott, Major Pat Wall & later 'Tiny' Mathews - got together to initiate what became the London Sailing Project. It was at the same time, July 1960 that for the 1st time, the UK Sea Scouts chose to enter the Tall Ships Race, Oslo to Ostende. I ended up being the reserve 'watch leader' & took a group of 6 scout reserves to Oslo as stand by crew. Were any of the 35th involved in that Tall Ships?
> 
> Sailing remains a hobby; in fact this past Xmas I chartered in the British Virgins ....
> 
> And, to Jeff - Thanks, it worked!
> 
> Michael Ford.


Michael - I didn't join the 35th until either late 1960 or most likely 1961 (leaving to go to sea in 1967) so don't recall anything about Atlantis or being split into 3 troops - will ask Mike Nadin. I do remember Dennis B plus another name Alan Richardson. I was involved in the London Sailing Project (Rhuna of Stone) when the yacht was moored at Lower Upnor after I left the Merchant Navy. 

Regards

Richard


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## Richard Culligan

Richard Culligan said:


> Michael - I didn't join the 35th until either late 1960 or most likely 1961 (leaving to go to sea in 1967) so don't recall anything about Atlantis or being split into 3 troops - will ask Mike Nadin. I do remember Dennis B plus another name Alan Richardson. I was involved in the London Sailing Project (Rhuna of Stone) when the yacht was moored at Lower Upnor after I left the Merchant Navy.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Richard


Michael further to your message Mike Nadin confirmed Dennis B did split the 35th into A, B & C troops. Mike Nadin ran one, along with John Brench & Tom Dommett at St Gabriels School, Churchill Gardens. I remember meeting at St Gabriels. 

Regards

Richard


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## Stanventura

Jeff. J. said:


> Hi les4736
> Thanks for your response to my original query, the thread has been going for some time now!!
> I still don't have any pix of the vessel, so if you should come across any please post ...... !!
> As mentioned before I don't remember the other vessel, the MGB belonging to the 56th. and I don't recall sailing in company with them either, that's not to say we didn't, I just don't remember the occasion.
> Yes, I do remember Dennis Besant, he was our scout master at the 35th. and took us sailing in our cutter (or perhaps it was a whaler?) on one occasion to the Thames estuary where I remember one of our lads broke his finger whilst coming alongside a moored barge in the fog!! I think his name was Carl ?
> I believe Dennis lived near Olympia in West London and I lived not too far away in Earls Court and would occasionally get a lift home with him following scout meeting nights.
> I joined the Arethusa Training Ship moored on the Medway nr. Chatham in 1961 and finally went to sea in the Merchant Navy in 1962/3 so I guess I'm a few years younger than you.
> I live in Hobart, Tasmania now and have done for some 45 years (almost an Aussie now!!) Residing here in Hobart is another former 35th Westminster sea scout by the name of Alan Marshall whom I only recently met and coincidently was in the cutter/whaler with me during the aforementioned incident in the fog ...... small world indeed!!
> He's a little older than I so perhaps you or Ian Allan may remember him.
> Thanks also for rekindling some old memories.
> Regards
> --------
> Jeff


Hi Jeff, I was reading your post with great interest, as I too was a member of the 35th city of Westminster Scouts. I first joined in 1959 until I joined the Royal Marines in 1966. I too had some good times on board H.M.S. Daring and
Hardy the work vessel. My scout leader was Barrie Watson and Dennis Bessant
was chief scout I think,Plus Geoff P and Mike Nadin.
I am sorry that I do not have any pictures to show you of Daring, but I do have lots of memories


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## Richard Culligan

Stan

Seeing your comment about joining the Marines weren't you and I entered into a sailing competition in the Midlands (1966) somewhere but were unable to participate because your 'joining up date' clashed?

Richard


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## Stanventura

Hi Richard, 
Yes it might have been, I did a lot of sailing in the scouts and carried on in the marines. When I left the Corp I bought a Feeling 1090 and sailed out of Plymouth, now I live in Spain injoying the winter Sun.
Richard what is your name and were you in the 35th at the same time as me? 
I was the troop leader at that time.


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## Richard Culligan

My surname is Culligan and was with the 35th from 1960 ish until Easter 1967 when I joined the Merchant Navy. I also have some photos of, if you are the right Stan, of us at Baden Powell House with a Bruce Finlayson. Although can't remember the reason why we were there.

I left the MN in the early 70's moved to Norwich settled into Marine Insurance with a Lloyd's Broker but maintained 'sea time' as I stayed involved in yachting and the MTB 102 which was a Dunkirk Little Ship and am now retired.


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## Stanventura

Hi Richard, I am looking at the same pictures as you are. I have about four or five pictures of us at the opening of Baden Powell House, it's good to put a face to a name, have you heard from anyone else from the troop? I do remember both you and Bruce Finlayson, have you heard from him at all.
Where do you keep your MTB? You must have great fun on her, up and down the broads.


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## Richard Culligan

Hi Stan

Have not heard from anyone for many years. There was a 'get together' in Croydon many years ago organised by Mike Nadin, whom I do e-mail every so often. Had many happy years not only sailing with the Discovery Sailing Project but also on the MTB102 which is berthed at Lowestoft. Reluctantly, back in 2000, after the Dunkirk Little Ships Convoy, I had to give up going to sea, as well as my hockey (grass), due to having glaucoma mainly my right eye. So now spend my time doing indoor rowing, school runs for my grandsons & attempting an Open University Degree.


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## Dartskipper

chadburn said:


> MTB 743 is the ubiquitous Fairmile "D", most but not all were stripped out and loaned to Sea Cadet's/ Sea Scout's throughout England after the War (I remember Scarborough's very well) and they loved them. Unfortunatly by the mid 1950's they were showing problem's with Dry Rot and were scrapped, either chopped up or burnt after their metal fitting's were salvaged. I am "fairly" sure Scarborough's Fairmile D was towed into the South Bay and given a Viking send off, unless someone else know's different of course


Fairmile "D's" were built in the same fashion as the "A","B" and "C" class boats. They used plywood in the frames and intercostals, but main bulkheads,and the hull was built with double diagonal mahogany,copper riveted. There was a layer of calico between the skins, which made an excellent wick for damp to spread between the layers of wood. The "B's" certainly had double diagonal decks as well, the earlier boats having the upper layer made from teak. When they were disposed of after the war, their metal fittings were valuable scrap, and a favourite method was to tow them into a tidal creek to burn them. At low tide, layers of corrugated iron or sheet metal were laid on the mud, and when the tide came in, the boats were towed into position and left to settle as the tide went out. They were then burnt, allowing the next tide to flush away the ashes, leaving a tidy pile of copper rivets, brass screws and other sundry scrap. The boats were worth more as scrap, because the fuel tanks were copper, as was most of the pipework. RML537 survives as "The Fairmile", running trips in Torbay and Start Bay.


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## Hamish Mackintosh

A good book on the MTB subject is -The Battle Of The Narrow Seas, by Lt Cdr Peter Scott,sorry no ISBN # it was first published in 1945


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## Richard Culligan

Hamish

The ISBN number is 9781848320352.

Richard


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## Jeff. J.

Many thanks Dartskipper, Hamish and Richard for all your information and for continuing this thread. 
My initial post asked if my memory was correct in assuming the vessel that I alluded to was an MTB by the name of DARING which was used by the 35th. Westminster Sea Scout Troop and asked whether anyone had some photos of her.
Cheers
-------
Jeff


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## Dartskipper

Jeff. J. said:


> Many thanks Dartskipper, Hamish and Richard for all your information and for continuing this thread.
> My initial post asked if my memory was correct in assuming the vessel that I alluded to was an MTB by the name of DARING which was used by the 35th. Westminster Sea Scout Troop and asked whether anyone had some photos of her.
> Cheers
> -------
> Jeff


It's just like a good discussion over a jar or three in a bar somewhere near the docks. You start off with a topic, and it ends up somewhere else!
Cheers indeed!
"Over the lips and round my gums, look out stomach, here it comes."(Pint)


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## The old man

*Rml 529*



Stanventura said:


> Hi Jeff, I was reading your post with great interest, as I too was a member of the 35th city of Westminster Scouts. I first joined in 1959 until I joined the Royal Marines in 1966. I too had some good times on board H.M.S. Daring and
> Hardy the work vessel. My scout leader was Barrie Watson and Dennis Bessant
> was chief scout I think,Plus Geoff P and Mike Nadin.
> I am sorry that I do not have any pictures to show you of Daring, but I do have lots of memories


Hi i was a member of TS Daring sea cadet unit and i knew all the people that have replied and have fond memories of daring and the repair barge Hardy both moored at lambeth and also enjoyed going to Arethusa every easter , Denis Besant was our CO and Jeff Preshner first Lieut .
Daring was RML529 i have a wartime photo of her with the King embarked.
When Denis resigned as our co somewhere around 1959 a new regime took over and our split with the 35th came, a couple of years after that a survey was carried out and rot had set in and daring was scrapped.
I remained in the sea cadets went on to run a unit for 10years the became an area staff officer and was greatly assisted by Mike nadin and some of the old 35th members in running and mooring our London area MFV


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## xdoc

*35th Westminster memories*

Hi Jeff, hi everyone. At last I think I've sorted out how to get onto this Forum. The Website is not the easiest to navigate, I find.....maybe that's because I never got onto a ship that was actually on the water! B\) but being sunk in the s..t before a Wardmaster Officer was not exactly plain-sailing either!
I have not caught up with you in Kingston, Tasmania for the past few years. Hope we do meet again, it will be a pleasure.
I don't know if you remember John Mitchell. He was the one who introduced me to Sea Scouting when I arrive in London to work, mid-1958
Do you remember Pat MacAlister? I think he went into the Merchant Navy and probably became an officer. He was studying hard I believe.
All the other names that have been mentioned here, in regard to the Daring, messing around in 27-foot whalers, the Discovery, etc. bring back fond memories. Especially that skirmish we had with the barge! If it had not been for the quick action of Thames Police and their launch, you and I would not be here now!
I have recently been back in UK, visiting old friends and relatives. How the country has changed! I love the trains....especially getting a Senior's Card and 1/3rd of the fares.

Alan


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## Richard Culligan

I received an e-mail from Mike Nadin attaching some photos of MTB743 (middle 1950's). Hope they are of interest.

Richard


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## Rwilks13

Ron Stringer said:


> My wife has fond memories of time spent in the 1950s on a Girl Guide/Sea Rangers MTB at Dartmouth. Apparently the two Princesses also spent time on there.


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## Rwilks13

Hi Ron, I realise you posted this a long time ago! I am a family historian in Brighton.. I often rescue old photos from flea markets. I have found some lovely snapshots of Dartmouth 1952 and the ladies on at the celebrations..(MTB 630 is written on the back of one) some have names on the back.. if you or your wife are interested please message me..
Best wishes 
Rachel


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## Ron Stringer

Thank you Rachel, my wife would have been thrilled to see the photos but sadly she died in 2018. I am not sure that any of the other girls that made up the crew of Sea Rangers at that time have survived. Happy times.


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## barry john macauley

Very sorry for your loss. This thread however, has been a lovely read. Thank you.


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## Rwilks13

Ron Stringer said:


> Thank you Rachel, my wife would have been thrilled to see the photos but sadly she died in 2018. I am not sure that any of the other girls that made up the crew of Sea Rangers at that time have survived. Happy times.


Hi Ron,
I am so sorry to hear about your wife..would you be happy for me to post the pictures on this forum if I can? ( I haven’t figured that bit out yet)..i don’t know if any of the photos are of her, it was a large event for the Queen’s Croniation I believe . Best wishes Rachel


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## Ron Stringer

Rwilks13 said:


> Hi Ron,
> I am so sorry to hear about your wife..would you be happy for me to post the pictures on this forum if I can? ( I haven’t figured that bit out yet)..i don’t know if any of the photos are of her, it was a large event for the Queen’s Croniation I believe . Best wishes Rachel


By all means, Rachel. I'm sure that there are members who will appreciate more photos of the MTB, even though they may not know any of the people shown.


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## Rwilks13

Hi Ron
I have just posted the photos under a thread *Sea Rangers Dartmouth 1952- photographs*
I am sure your wife would have been having a brilliant time, like the lovely ladies in this photograph!
very best wishes
Rachel


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## Rwilks13

Ron Stringer said:


> By all means, Rachel. I'm sure that there are members who will appreciate more photos of the MTB, even though they may not know any of the people shown.


I Meant 'Coronation' not 'Croniation' 😬.. that's treason I am sure! (and she wasn't crowned until 1953!!)


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