# Gourock and James Adams Yacht Yard



## Gollywobbler

Hi All

Mods - I am not sure which section to use for my enquiry. If you think there is a better place for the thread, please move it.

I am trying to piece together the history of a yacht that was built by J.Adam in Gourock in 1938. She was called Bethamar originally but her name was later changed to Shianne and she was registered n Goole in about the 1950s.

I've seen Shianne. She is about 43 ft LOA and I'd say that she was built to be a Gentlemans Motor Yacht, with a couple of short masts that would carry steadying sails. (The recent buyer (an American) says she is a "motor sailer" but the surveyor says she is a motor boat with steadying sails.) 

She is very strong, beautifully built with some lovely attention to detail inside. She is very similar to the boat in the link below:

http://www.adls.org.uk/t1/content/white-heather-now-riis-i-3

Like RIIS I, Shianne was designed by WG McBryde but Shianne was definitely built in Gourock, by J. Adam. 

From the research that I've done on the Web, it seems that J. Adam was a yacht builder, not a ship builder. What happened to the yard? 

Shianne was built for a man called Eric MacLeod Gardiner, whose address was Barrhead, Renfrew.

She is such a good quality boat that I wouldn't be surprised if Mr Gardiner was a big wheel in the Royal Gourock Yacht Club. Does anyone who knows Gourock think this is likely, please?

I have not been able to discover anything about WG McBryde. Is anyone able to tell me anything about him, please? 

I am told that Shianne was "on the Mersea" by 1940. Would this be likely to be the River Mersea or the Trent & Mersea Canal, do we think? I discovered that Goole is near Hull (when I had thought it was near Glasgow) so I am wondering whether the boat made her way through the Trent & Mersea Canal to the East Coast? The draught is shallow enough for this to have been possible. 

Apparently Shianne is probably built of mahogany and she is definitely splined according to the surveyor. I don't know whether that is important to anything. 

What we know is very patchy because the American chap who owns her now bought her from the personal representative of a man who had owned her for 25 years before his death in 2010. The PR doesn't really know very much about her - he has only been able to mention bits and pieces that he thinks the previous owner told him but we don't know how much of the previous owner's memory was based on hard facts about the boat.

Would it be worth the American's while to go to Gourock for a week to poke around, or has the area changed immeasurably since the end of WWII, please?

Any information at all - no matter how trivial it might seem - would be enormously welcome because it is usually possible to discover a great deal about a unique boat like Shianne. It is just a matter of finding out how and where to start looking, I reckon. 

Many thanks

Gill


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## Scurdie

J. Adam Gourock is listed as a builder in Clydesite http://www.clydesite.co.uk/clydebuilt/search.asp, but only six vessels are recorded. Of those, only one is a motor yacht: Musette (1934). The last build listed was 1947. (Small vessels may not be fully recorded on Clydesite though).
While the Gourock Library may have some local information, I doubt if a visit to the town now would reveal much else of relevance.
A possible route from the Clyde to Goole for a small vessel in the 1940's would have been through the Forth & Clyde Canal, then down the east coast.


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## Gulpers

*Adams' - Cove Road, Gourock*

Hi Gill,

What a coincidence, my childhood home was in Steel Street, a couple of hundred yards to the east of Adams' Boatyard. I suspect that the Yard closed down in the 70's although I can't be sure of that. It's difficult to find any photographs however, I will keep my eyes open for you. In the meantime, the following may be of some interest:

This shot *here* shows the Yard in it's heyday and certainly a good time before my childhood recollections from the late 50's and early 60's.

The photograph of the slipway *here* shows all that is left of the Yard nowadays.

Adams' Boatyard was located by the tree in the bottom right of *this* photograph.

Another present day shot of the slipway *here* with the remains of the Admiralty Jetty in the middle distance.

*This* Google Maps view shows the position of the Boatyard. "John Campbell Street" is where the Yard was located - in fact, the road running into "John Campbell Street" was the landward entrance to Yard and is still known as "Adam Street." The area immediately to the right of "John Campbell Street" was part of the Yard and the slipway shown in the earlier links can be clearly seen running into Cardwell Bay from "Cove Road."

Finally, it appears that the McLean Museum and Art Gallery in Greenock may hold some information on Adams' Yard. Their contact details are available *here*.

Cheers (Thumb)


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## John Cassels

At least the "Vic " is still going strong !.


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## Gollywobbler

Hi Scurdie and Ray

Thank you so, so much - both of you - for the information and the photos you have provided. 

It is fascinating to see the slipway and to know that Shianne must have been launched down that slip. It is also very interesting to know exactly where the boatyard was.

I intend to pass on all of the information that you have so kindly provided to Phil, the American guy who bought the boat recently and has had her moved to the Thames, since he lives near London. The boat is now 72 years old but she doesn't look it at all. She has the air of a boat that has been very well maintained all her life and she's still going strong, which is a real credit to her builders. 

Mrs Phil is not that impressed at the moment! She thinks that her hubby has taken leave of his senses. However hopefully she'll cheer up now that the weather has improved so that they can cruise up and down the Thames with Shianne. I'm hoping to get her involved with researching the boat's history so that she'll become "their boat" rather than being "hubby's strange idea of a toy."

Phil will be thrilled with the information that you two people have provided. When I first saw the boat, I asked about her history. He said he didn't know her history and didn't know that it would be possible to find out. I said that although we probably can't discover everything, we can certainly discover more than he knew when he bought her. So far, we're making some good progress and Phil will be enormously encouraged and will want to delve deeper.

It is actually possible to get a professional researcher involved - a woman who has a degree in maritime history and her father is a very well known yachtsman. However she charges £60,000!!! (I am not kidding.) That is more than twice as much as Phil paid for the boat so I've told him that with some effort, he can find out quite a bit by himself. 

He loves his "new" boat so I am confident that he will succeed because I'm sure he'll put in the effort. He just needs a bit of help and encouragement to get started.

Very many thanks, once again.

Gill


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## japottinger

The Cardwell Bay Sailing Club had their dinghy park and winter storage right opposite the yard on the shore side. We used their slipway to haul up and launch our yachts. Certainly from early seventies they never built any boats but operated for repairs only. Biggest job I saw was conversion of a former Inshore Minesweeper in to the yacht Derona for a local owner, unfortunately lost by fire in Greece shortly afterwards.


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## Ajimmy

Very interesting to know that Shianne is still going strong. My late father was probably one of the boatbuilders who built her in 1938. There was a 1930s photo of everyone at James Adam & Sons in the Greenock Telegraph last month.


Here is an extract from a survey undertaken by Kathleen J. Kilbey I.Eng MRINA & Associates

This particular yacht had been lurking in an Inland Waterways Marina for quite a number of years and we therefore took particular care to check on areas of the hull where decay would be most likely. The boat had been built on the Clyde by a well known pre-war (WWll) builder and was found to have been built like the proverbial brick……. Probably one of the best built boats ever surveyed by KJK irrespective of time or place.

The link is:
http://marinesurveying.info/past-marine-surveys/1938-classic-wooden-motor-yacht-marine-survey/


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## JRMacGregor

Gollywobbler said:


> However she charges £60,000!!! (I am not kidding.)


Surely there is some mistake or misunderstanding !

Last year I hired this lady (initials HC) to do some investigation for myself. She charged a rather modest hourly rate.

Nice to hear the old boat is in such good condition. A credit to her builders and owners.


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## Howards

Hi Gill.

I have just come across this web site.
My family owned Shianne from 1963 to apporx 1971.
I think I can answer all your questions if you are still interested?
Howard Sharples


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## Shianne

*Pics*

I've just posted four pictures of Shianne in the Preserved Vessels section.


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## FlikeNoir

Hiya, I'm afraid I can't help with info on the boat but my dad, David Caldwell, was the last owner of James Adam & Sons in Gourock. We left Greenock when I was 4 so I believe the yard closed for good in 1987.


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## roymuir

Name	Official number	Flag	IMO
BETHAMAR 300205 GBR 
Year built	Date launched	Date completed
1938 05/1938 
Vessel type	Vessel description
Yacht Wood Motor Vessel 
Builder	Yard	Yard no
James Adam, Gourock 


Tonnage	Length	Breadth	Depth	Draft
17 grt / 13 nrt / 19 tm	41.0 ft 10.5 ft 3.7 ft 
Engine builder	
Engine detail
Twin paraffin, 2-screw. 
Re-engined 1950, 2 oil engines, each 2cyl, Gardner.
Later re-engined? Newage B.M.C. Commodore 3.4 Litre. 

First owner	First port of register	Registration date
Eric MacLeod Gardiner, Barrhead, Renfrew 
Other names
SHIANNE 
Subsequent owner and registration history
195x ?? - reg Goole
By 1961 owner N. R Sunderland, registered at Glasgow, home port Sandbank.
c1985 ??
2010 ??, USA 
Vessel history
Designed by W G McBryde

2010 on the River Thames

Remarks

End year	Fate / Status
2010 In Service


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## NZSCOTTY

Great to see Gourock mentioned. Even if I cannot help too much regarding the boat yard it is good to see the old home town getting a bit of publicity. Did take a girl out once who lived close to the yard but she dropped me after a few dates!


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## John Cassels

NZSCOTTY said:


> Great to see Gourock mentioned. Even if I cannot help too much regarding the boat yard it is good to see the old home town getting a bit of publicity. Did take a girl out once who lived close to the yard but she dropped me after a few dates!


Oh yea , does W know about this ?.


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## NZSCOTTY

John Cassels said:


> Oh yea , does W know about this ?.


Probably before she was born. I loved and left many Gourock girls!


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## Scottykiwi

Not sure if the original poster is still looking for info on Shianne (Bethamar). My father in law is the maternal grandson of the original owner. She was named for his two daughters Elizabeth and Margaret. They also owned the Marabeth which is of a similar vintage. i am currently trying to find any photos we have of her, but we do have an old video with old film of Bethamar being launched. 

let me know if you are interested.


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## Basil

NZSCOTTY said:


> Probably before she was born. I loved and left many Gourock girls!


When I was an apprentice in The Cowal in Tarbet Street my colleagues sent an engagement congratulations card to my Gourock GF. Needless to say, we weren't engaged - barstewards!

Cowal, McLeans, Adams, Davey Jones Locker* - all gone; but The Bluebird and The Cardwell appear to have survived.

* Where a bunch of TEE 'big boys' got a little 16yo v drunk one NY (Pint)


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## NZSCOTTY

Understand 60 odd cruise ship visits passed Gourock to berth at Greenock this summer. What do the passengers do - can't imagine them strolling through tha "mall" if it's still there! No doubt bussed out of town!


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## Basil

The Mall is in trouble. M&S gone to Port Glasgow and Body Shop is closing.
PG? I ask you?! Even in Greenock we used to look down on The Port which is why we put The Gibby at their end of town (Jester)

I guess the liners come into Greenock for the berthing facility - and a coffee at Spella's AKA Twist IIRC 

Would be better if they could berth at Ardrossan giving pax the opportunity to visit Burns Cottage, Dumfries House, Culzean Castle etc.


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## John Cassels

As a former member of the Gourock navy I must advise that enough Gourock
refreshment centres survive to accomodate any number of inmates of the floating concentration camps that visit summertime Greenock. As Bas says , the Cardwell still does the business but also the Vic , Cleats and the Kempock continue to go from strength to strength.


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## inandaship

Not forgetting the Cafe Continental.
The Greenock Ocean Terminal is a staging post for Edinburgh (tattoo) Loch Lomond, Trossachs, Charles Rennie MacIntosh's Hill House, Helensburgh, etc.


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## Basil

inandaship said:


> Not forgetting the Cafe Continental.
> The Greenock Ocean Terminal is a staging post for Edinburgh (tattoo) Loch Lomond, Trossachs, Charles Rennie MacIntosh's Hill House, Helensburgh, etc.


Good point, but Helensburgh? 

Yes, remember hanging out at The Continental with the old bike (motorcycle, that is  )


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## inandaship

The Hill House in Helensburgh Basil, one of Charles Rennie MacIntosh's greatest works, built for Blackie the publisher in 1902 and attracts many visitors although not my cup of tea. Helensburgh the jewel of the Clyde where the sun always shines.


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## Basil

Of course! The Hill House in Helensburgh - sorry, completely forgotten that we visited some years ago.


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## cunamara

Great to hear so many from Gourock on the site. I remember there was a land title dispute concerning Adams. Part of the property had belonged to Ratsey and Lapthorn, sailmakers, at one time. there was no trial of land transfer, I think because it was during WW2. I bought some of the stock, ie screws and copper nails, repacked them and sold them in my Dad's shop, VG Foodstore. My purchases include a book of Dixon Kemp's Yacht and a bunch of old Rudder magazines, sorry to say now all lost.


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## NZSCOTTY

John Cassels said:


> As a former member of the Gourock navy I must advise that enough Gourock
> refreshment centres survive to accomodate any number of inmates of the floating concentration camps that visit summertime Greenock. As Bas says , the Cardwell still does the business but also the Vic , Cleats and the Kempock continue to go from strength to strength.


Good to see John defending his home town especially the pubs!


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## Neil McInnes

What about the Cloch (Davy Jones Locker) and the fairlight many a huf and a Huf
when going to Cragburn and don't forget the chips shops for a fish supper. happy days.


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## 5036

JRMacGregor said:


> Surely there is some mistake or misunderstanding !
> 
> Last year I hired this lady (initials HC) to do some investigation for myself. She charged a rather modest hourly rate.
> 
> Nice to hear the old boat is in such good condition. A credit to her builders and owners.


Some years ago, researchers looking for info on a defunct manufacturers large diesel engine were in Greenock following a bright idea to go round the pubs trying to find any workers who may have been involved in its building. A local worthy directed them to 1 Smith Street where he would find a lot of said workers and, delighted with their coup, they sped off to the given address which is the local cemetery.


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## Basil

nav said:


> Some years ago, researchers looking for info on a defunct manufacturers large diesel engine were in Greenock following a bright idea to go round the pubs trying to find any workers who may have been involved in its building. A local worthy directed them to 1 Smith Street where he would find a lot of said workers and, delighted with their coup, they sped off to the given address which is the local cemetery.


Almost right:
1, South St.

"following a bright idea to go round the pubs trying to find any workers who may have been involved in its building."
Now there's a contrived mission if I ever saw one!


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## 5036

Basil said:


> Almost right:
> 1, South St.
> 
> "following a bright idea to go round the pubs trying to find any workers who may have been involved in its building."
> Now there's a contrived mission if I ever saw one!


Thanks Basil!


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## NZSCOTTY

Neil McInnes said:


> What about the Cloch (Davy Jones Locker) and the fairlight many a huf and a Huf
> when going to Cragburn and don't forget the chips shops for a fish supper. happy days.


At the cloch on Friday night 8 pints for a pound!


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## Shianne

Yes, Scotty I am very interested. Email is best please on [email protected].


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## gt6pilot

*Motor yacht Musette*

Hello, whilst wandering around a boatyard we came across "Musette".
She looks to be the right period for the Adams built yacht mentioned in one of the early posts of this thread We were wondering if anyone has any information on this once grand lady.
Many thanks,
Andrew


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## Old Engines

Just picked this oval brass plate up today. Reads "James Adam & Sons, Yacht & Boat Builders Cove Yard Docking Slip, GOUROCK.N.B."

Found out here on the West Coast, but could have been picked up anywhere I guess.


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## John Cassels

Old Engines said:


> Just picked this oval brass plate up today. Reads "James Adam & Sons, Yacht & Boat Builders Cove Yard Docking Slip, GOUROCK.N.B."
> 
> Found out here on the West Coast, but could have been picked up anywhere I guess.


What does the N.B. stand for ?.


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## spongebob

New Brunswick ?


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## pitcrew

John Cassels said:


> What does the N.B. stand for ?.


North Britain!


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## Old Engines

John Cassels said:


> What does the N.B. stand for ?.


New Brunswick. One of Canada's maritime provinces.


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## pitcrew

Old Engines said:


> New Brunswick. One of Canada's maritime provinces.


Gourock isn’t in New Brunswick.


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## John Cassels

It's not in North Britain either .


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## Old Engines

pitcrew said:


> Gourock isn’t in New Brunswick.


Was sure I found a reference to them the other day, but looking again I think you must be right about the firm not being in New Brunswick.

When you see an address in Canada that says "N.B." there's only one answer: New Brunswick.

As for "North Britain", is that an Englishman's term for Scotland?(LOL)


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## pitcrew

John Cassels said:


> It's not in North Britain either .


I’m afraid it is. The victorians and earlier referred to Scotland as North Britain. Hopefully I’ve attached a reference and a photo of a safe I picked up years ago when I bought and sold antiques. Falkirk is definitely not in New Brunswick.
Being a Bairn I held on to everything labelled Falkirk, which ultimately led to me packing in the shop. You can’t trade and collect at the same time because you buy what you like and can’t bear to part with it.
When I bought the safe my wife gave me a roasting for spending £20 ( it was a long time ago) on a locked safe, anyhoo I made a key opened it, made another key for the locked drawer and found two gold sovereigns and two half sovereigns. She came round to it then.


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## makko

Thank you, Pitcrew. A nice anecdote and interesting reference.
Rgds.
Dave


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## makko

Thank you, Pitcrew. A nice anecdote and interesting reference.
Rgds.
Dave


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## woodinsight

Andrew (gt6pilot),

Yes I have information on MUSETTE including owners and specifications.
The yacht was last reported in 1982.

Regards,
Malcolm Wood,
Antibes,
France


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## Shianne

Scottykiwi said:


> Not sure if the original poster is still looking for info on Shianne (Bethamar). My father in law is the maternal grandson of the original owner. She was named for his two daughters Elizabeth and Margaret. They also owned the Marabeth which is of a similar vintage. i am currently trying to find any photos we have of her, but we do have an old video with old film of Bethamar being launched.
> 
> let me know if you are interested.


Yes I would love to get a photo or video footage.


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## Shianne

Old Engines said:


> Just picked this oval brass plate up today. Reads "James Adam & Sons, Yacht & Boat Builders Cove Yard Docking Slip, GOUROCK.N.B."
> 
> Found out here on the West Coast, but could have been picked up anywhere I guess.





Old Engines said:


> Just picked this oval brass plate up today. Reads "James Adam & Sons, Yacht & Boat Builders Cove Yard Docking Slip, GOUROCK.N.B."
> 
> Found out here on the West Coast, but could have been picked up anywhere I guess.


Your plate is nearly identical to the one on Bethamar, ex- Shianne.--> Name Bethamar | National Historic Ships


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