# MCA madness over flares?



## G0SLP (Sep 4, 2007)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ares-safety-fears-told-use-torch-instead.html

Elfinsaftee at work again...

Madness.


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## Pompeyfan (Aug 9, 2005)

Two questions need to be answered:

1. How many people have been injured by the flares since they have been in use?.

2. Are the alternatives better?.

If the answer is none and no, then on what evidence has the MCA based their decision?. Certainly seems like health and safety gone mad again.

David


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## GRAHAM D (Feb 13, 2007)

David
There have been a number of incidents involving serious injuries with flares, one that I know of resulted in a death.
The problem as far as I know is not so much in the use of the flares by the Coastguard teams, who are well trained, but more in health and safety requirement regarding the storage in vehicles and Coastguard buildings.
I have been a Search Mission Co-ordinator for the Coastguards for a number of years, and on numerous occasions have requested teams to put up flares to indicate to small vessels in distress that rescue teams are in the area, or whilst talking to lost persons on 999 telephone lines asking them if flares set off by search teams are to the north or south of them. I have made my feeling known to our management and understand that this matter is still under discussion at the IMO.
Graham
PS I have enjoyed your posts and photographs, I sailed on Oriana in 1979 and Sea Princess 1980 our paths may have crossed then, happy days!!


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## James_C (Feb 17, 2005)

Graham,
What regulations are there to be met for storage of them ashore? 
As you know, on any boat or ship you walk onto you'll find them in simple plastic bucket with a lid, so if that's ok on constantly moving ship with a large turnover of personnel, then why should there be a problem in a building or vehicle?


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## GRAHAM D (Feb 13, 2007)

Jim
I'm not sure of the ins and outs of the new regulation, but I feel the main difficulties were at the Coastguard team Coast Rescue Equipment bases. Some of these are very remote and are basic building. I work at a MRCC and we have a purpose built small magazine to store Pyros in. I do wonder if part of the problem is security, in the current climate pyros not stored securely could fall into the wrong hands.


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## ROBERT HENDERSON (Apr 11, 2008)

As Jim ststed pyrotechnics on board ships are in a plastic container with a lid, surely they would be more likely to fall into the wrong hands with mixed crewing than in a coastguard facility.

Regards Robert


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## Pompeyfan (Aug 9, 2005)

GRAHAM D said:


> David
> There have been a number of incidents involving serious injuries with flares, one that I know of resulted in a death.
> The problem as far as I know is not so much in the use of the flares by the Coastguard teams, who are well trained, but more in health and safety requirement regarding the storage in vehicles and Coastguard buildings.
> I have been a Search Mission Co-ordinator for the Coastguards for a number of years, and on numerous occasions have requested teams to put up flares to indicate to small vessels in distress that rescue teams are in the area, or whilst talking to lost persons on 999 telephone lines asking them if flares set off by search teams are to the north or south of them. I have made my feeling known to our management and understand that this matter is still under discussion at the IMO.
> ...


Thanks for that Graham. I am aware of amateurs being injured by flares, in fact I am pretty sure we had a death at my place. It certainly rings a bell. But I was not aware that professionals were injured.

I suppose that with current technology, better and safer equipment should be available?. 

My friend was aboard Oriana in 1979. Colin White. He was Assistant Accommodation Steward. He left in 1991. I left P&O in 1975. 

David


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## GRAHAM D (Feb 13, 2007)

I believe that up until recently the MCA had Crown Immunity as far as H&S regulations for storage of flares were concerned. This immunity has now been taken away. This is why storage has become a problem.
As far as storage of flares onboard ships, obviously they need to be available for use in the rafts and lifeboats. The Ship and Port Facility (Security) Regulations 2004, would make it difficult for any unauthorised person to get onboard a vessel in port or to get any flares off the vessel or out of the port facility.


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## Steve Woodward (Sep 4, 2006)

Ahh a serious thread, I opened it expecting Coastie and CED to be complaining about their new uniform strides


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## Coastie (Aug 24, 2005)

Saying nowt!


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## Chief Engineer's Daughter (Sep 17, 2005)

Steve Woodward said:


> Ahh a serious thread, I opened it expecting Coastie and CED to be complaining about their new uniform strides


Well Steve that would be an interesting subject! As for the use of white paraflares by CG teams.....

Like Coastie, am saying nowt!


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