# Three Green Lights



## John Campbell (Aug 30, 2005)

Members may be interested in the proposed amendments to the COLREGS which are now being debated in high places as we speak. 

They are:- that vessels when crossing the TSS in the Singapore Straits display three green lights.

There is some debate on how effective this will be but clearly there is need for some thing to indicate vessels who are crossing the TSS to enter or exit the port of Singapore at night.

Those who have been through that area in charge of the ships can well testify that navigation can be stressful at times and traffic volume is heavy.

JC


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## david freeman (Jan 26, 2006)

I am a little rusty on collision regs: But Two Green lights on a christmas tree-One above the other mean A Fishing vessel with nets out? This would I think be confusing in the straits. Why not employ something similar to a cable laying vessel or guard vessel laying Pipes/cables- Where a neon signal flashing in white. This would be I feel more effective and as it would apply chiefly to local vessels then a more unique system of lights would be more effective for the larger vessel, But I would think it would be the small vessels under 200' long which would cause the major hazard? Why not a combined light, audio signal and radar signal in sequence with each other: and sensitive to audio light and radar sensitivity all at the same instant; and of a unique signature for that local area.


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## elloyd (May 16, 2006)

Final check, three greens cleared to land.!(Jester)


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## Jacktar1 (Jul 17, 2005)

spot on....'gear down', we have three greens...clear to land !!!(K)


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## mikeg (Aug 24, 2006)

Just lets you know landing gear is down and locked, you are not cleared to land until ATC tells you, _ATC: "Gxx clear to land runway xx Surface wind xx/xxx"_

[=P]


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## Jacktar1 (Jul 17, 2005)

dead right...I stand corrected (been flying since 1967 ! )
Cheers...Glan...R397279...(K)


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## chadburn (Jun 2, 2008)

Jacktar1 said:


> dead right...I stand corrected (been flying since 1967 ! )
> Cheers...Glan...R397279...(K)


Crash Barrier to be raised?(Jester)


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## RayJordandpo (Feb 23, 2006)

Two horizontal green lights over the stern.
Ships cat reading the log! (Jester)


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## Ron Dean (Aug 11, 2010)

mikeg said:


> Just lets you know landing gear is down and locked, you are not cleared to land until ATC tells you, _ATC: "Gxx clear to land runway xx Surface wind xx/xxx"_
> 
> [=P]


I was in the RAF in 1956 and the Hastings pilots were having their first outings on Blackburn Beverleys.
One pilot had circled 3 times looking for the 3 greens.
I think he'd have run out of fuel circling if the ATC hadn't told him (none too politely) that the Beverley had a fixed undercarriage. (Ouch)


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## chadburn (Jun 2, 2008)

Ron Dean said:


> I was in the RAF in 1956 and the Hastings pilots were having their first outings on Blackburn Beverleys.
> One pilot had circled 3 times looking for the 3 greens.
> I think he'd have run out of fuel circling if the ATC hadn't told him (none too politely) that the Beverley had a fixed undercarriage. (Ouch)


Strange world is it not, 70yrs ago a large number of Spitfire's were damaged on landing due to the new Pilot's forgetting to lower their undercarriages as they had trained on fixed undercarriage aircraft. A warning horn was fitted quick sharpish.


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## sidsal (Nov 13, 2007)

You should always run thru your checklist before takeoff.
Many years ago a friend and I hired a Cessna 150 in Manchester to take some aerial photos to try and flog.. He was a flying instructor. We started up, released the brakes and opened the throttle to taxi. It wouldn't move so I got out to see what was up. There was a large concrete block tied to the tail to anchor the plane.
Happy days


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## sidsal (Nov 13, 2007)

Anyone remember DanAir ?
Same friend invited me to go to Leeds/Bradford airport to collect an Avro 748 and fly it to Manchester for routine maintenance. In order to save having to jack the plane up at Manchester we had been asked to put down the landing gear "handraulically" so en route we tried to wind it down - meant opening a trapdoor and using a handle to wind it down. It wouldn't shift so there followed a series of violent manouvers to try and make it go down. No luck - we were at Manchester and had to give up trying.


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## mikeg (Aug 24, 2006)

Even with a fixed undercarriage you still have to include 'undercarriage - fixed' in our pre-landing checklist because next time you may be flying a plane with retractable gear. Saves you a lot of embarrassment, thousands of pounds and needing full power to taxi (Jester)
The checklist I use is BUMFITCHH which was drummed into me when I was doing endless airport circuit flying:
Brakes
Undercarriage - Fixed
Mixture
Fuel (Pump)
Instruments (Is QFE dialled in?)
Temperatures & Pressures
Carb heat on
Harnesses & Hatches
(Carb Heat Off)


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## Naytikos (Oct 20, 2008)

_Posted by Sidsal_


> ...meant opening a trapdoor and using a handle to wind it down.


On my wife's first trip, we disembarked in Porto Salazar (Mocammedes) and, having changed 'planes in Lisbon were on a TAP 707 on final approach into Heathrow when the flight engineer appeared, knelt beside our row of seats, lifted a small hatch in the floor, and wound down the starboard rear undercarriage manually.
There was no announcement and except for those passengers in the adjacent rows the rest were probably completely unaware that there was a problem.

We did not take the advice inherent in the airline's mnemonic and again found ourselves on a TAP 707 when taking a quick trip to the UK whilst another ship was in drydock at Setubal. This time there was an announcement and the hostesses went around collecting all of the hand baggage to stow in the bathrooms. We were rather concerned at this aspect, since we had $10,000 in notes in one of the bags. There were fire engines lining the runway but nothing happened and we never heard exactly what the problem was.
Ever since, however, we have avoided that particular carrier:
*T*ake *A*nother *P*lane!


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## sidsal (Nov 13, 2007)

They say the Belgian airlaine SABENA meant
Such A Bloodyawful Experience - Never Again !


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## Derek Roger (Feb 19, 2005)

sidsal said:


> Anyone remember DanAir ?
> Same friend invited me to go to Leeds/Bradford airport to collect an Avro 748 and fly it to Manchester for routine maintenance. In order to save having to jack the plane up at Manchester we had been asked to put down the landing gear "handraulically" so en route we tried to wind it down - meant opening a trapdoor and using a handle to wind it down. It wouldn't shift so there followed a series of violent manouvers to try and make it go down. No luck - we were at Manchester and had to give up trying.


On leaving the Markhor from Dakar we were all transported back to UK by Dan Air (charter ) I still remeber the name of the plane "Spirit of Inverness " Which I took to be a good omen as that is where I was heading for .
I had been bunkering before we signed off so was one of the few if not only sober member of the crew .
I sat at the back of the plane and had the pleasure of a ( Flight Attendent as I think they are now called ) sitting beside me .

When daylight came I looked out and saw one of the Stbd Props feathering . Upon looking out to the port side I saw a similar view .

Being somewhat ignorant of such things at that time I asked the young lady if that was normal ? perhaps to conserve fuel ?

She advised " No it was not and dont alam the others "

2 of 4 enginges had quit . We did arrive OK but it was the first and last time I flew with Dan Air .

Happy Days Derek


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## mikeg (Aug 24, 2006)

I few Dan Air quite a few times from Inverness in the early days (circa 1983ish). I remember a time when my suitcase was the only bag on the luggage transporter to the aircraft - how things have changed!
Not many folk know that Dan Air is a contraction of Davis & Newman, started by Fred Newman, many will remember their branches as Shipping Agents.
Their aircraft were basic but to my knowledge didn't have any engine failures whilst I was on (Thumb), they say that one remaining engine will take you all the way to the crash site (Smoke)

Mike


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## mikeg (Aug 24, 2006)

sidsal said:


> They say the Belgian airlaine SABENA meant
> Such A Bloodyawful Experience - Never Again !


The old BOAC = Better On A Camel


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## Ron Stringer (Mar 15, 2005)

Before there were any direct flights from London to Shetland, DanAir (or Dan Dare as they were sometimes referred to) flew the shuttle for Shell between Aberdeen and Sumburgh when exploratory drilling began off Shetland around 1970. The aircraft were Douglas DC-3 types (1930s design, famous as the paratrooping C-47) and to arrive off the Trident, BAC-111 or similar from London and board the DC-3 could be something of a culture shock. 

As an early reminder that you had stepped back in time, you had a steep walk uphill through the cabin from the rear door to your seat. (No tricycle undercarriage on the DC-3).


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## pete (Mar 13, 2005)

Left H.E.Moss's Lumen in Hong Kong to fly to Speke in 1962. That was a DC3 Dakota and 2½ Days later arrived in one piece. 5 stops on the way (nobody said why) including nightime stopovers. What a nightmare...........pete


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## AGAMEMNON (Nov 29, 2008)

Recall flying Dan Dare charter from Speke (Liverpool) to Rotterdam to join an ED ship in the mid 60s. Soon after take off the main door fell off. Land? Never. Issued blankets......


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## mikeg (Aug 24, 2006)

You were very lucky because a Dan Air Hawker Siddeley 748 (series 2) G-ASPL crashed on a postal flight from Gatwick to East Midlands Airport in 1981. The right rear door opened in mid-air and came away hitting the tailplane and got stuck on the leading edge causing loss of control, the aircraft to enter a steep dive during which its wings and tailplane failed as a result of overstressing. Both pilots lost their lives.


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## Chief Engineer's Daughter (Sep 17, 2005)

Ron Stringer said:


> Before there were any direct flights from London to Shetland, DanAir (or Dan Dare as they were sometimes referred to) flew the shuttle for Shell between Aberdeen and Sumburgh when exploratory drilling began off Shetland around 1970. The aircraft were Douglas DC-3 types (1930s design, famous as the paratrooping C-47) and to arrive off the Trident, BAC-111 or similar from London and board the DC-3 could be something of a culture shock.
> 
> As an early reminder that you had stepped back in time, you had a steep walk uphill through the cabin from the rear door to your seat. (No tricycle undercarriage on the DC-3).


Known as Damned Air.

On the 31st July 1979 HS748 G-BEKF crashed at Sumburgh. 17 people died. 

http://shetlopedia.com/Sumburgh_Airport


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## RayJordandpo (Feb 23, 2006)

Chief Engineer's Daughter said:


> Known as Damned Air.
> 
> On the 31st July 1979 HS748 G-BEKF crashed at Sumburgh. 17 people died.
> 
> http://shetlopedia.com/Sumburgh_Airport


I've used that Dan Air flight to Sumburgh in the seventies. I have also flown to and from Tingwall at Lerwick. I spent many months in Shetland on a tug ("Scotsman") weather bound during the winter months with barges loaded with modules for offshore platforms. United Towing had their own aircraft for crew changes and according to the agent our plane was the first commercial aircraft to use Tingwall. That would be around 1976. Does that sound right?


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## Chief Engineer's Daughter (Sep 17, 2005)

Read all about Tingwall Airport.

http://shetlopedia.com/Tingwall_Airport


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