# Official log Book - how do trace a specific entry?



## ddraigmor (Sep 13, 2006)

I am wondering whether any member can help.

I would like tio get hold of an entry made during the 1970's from a ship I was on.

Can anyone enlighten me as to how I go about this?

Jonty


----------



## JoK (Nov 12, 2006)

Does the company still exist?

If so, I would sugest checking to see if they archived their logs.


----------



## treeve (Nov 15, 2005)

You could try the Registrar General for Shipping and Seamen.
I am not entirely sure, but other than Shipping Registers and
Fishing Vessel Registers, the last Ship's Logs deposited in Archives
were for 1972. That is not including any company that may have
deposited there own papers in Archive, either locally or in the NA.
You could try the local Records office to ask if any local companies
have been deposited. Also have a look at A2A, and search online.
Search also on the NA search page, noting dates and BT for Board
of Trade and ADM for Admiralty ... or MT for Ministry of Transport,
as a great deal of their records deposited refer to wrecks and so on.
Tell us more (if the situation permits), maybe able to come up with
more ideas.... Best Wishes, Raymond


----------



## Roger Griffiths (Feb 10, 2006)

Hello John,
Have you got the vessels official number?

regards
Roger


----------



## trotterdotpom (Apr 29, 2005)

What did you do, Jonty?
John T.


----------



## Nova Scotian (Jul 2, 2006)

ddraigmor said:


> I am wondering whether any member can help.
> 
> I would like tio get hold of an entry made during the 1970's from a ship I was on.
> 
> ...


I obtained a copy of the OLB entries of a British registered ship I sailed on in 1964. Strangely enough it was provided by the archives at Memorial University in Newfoundland where they have records of many OLBs of British ships. There is a fee attached for search, photocopying and mail etc..

You may wish to try the following:

Paula Marshall
Memorial University of Newfoundland and Labrador
Maritime History Archive
St Johns
Newfoundland and Labrador
Canada
A1C 5S7

http://www.mun.ca/mha/

Cheers.


----------



## treeve (Nov 15, 2005)

That is interesting, I was not aware that Newfoundland had acquired the 
later records as well. Just as well, as our governement were going to
destroy the lot. Uproar encouraged them to offer them out to responsible archives. 
You need the Official Number of the Vessel, so I understand.


----------



## ddraigmor (Sep 13, 2006)

OK.....

I was in conversation last night with an ex Chief Officer I last sailed with in 1977. Long story but basically we were both involved in an accident that culminated in a murder - I hasten to add not our crew but of the ship we were towing! 

However, our workboat capsized. I have written the story for 'Sea Breezes' and without taking up too much thread space, I was under the impression she scended when the passengers began to knock ten bells out of each other for'ad. I distinctly remember going to check the plug (as did the engineer for'ad of me ) and both were in. The boat filled rapidly - as in really rapidly. Both of us recall that.

He recalls checking the plugs before the launch. He wondered whether the keel had split - there was a membrane between the two halves and his thoughts had been that perhaps the membrane was ruptured and suddenly gave up. On the passage to the tow, the boat was dry and when we took the injured and the maimed aboard, the boat was dry (after about an hour aboard trying to get things sorted out on her). En route shoreside, she rapidly filled and then rolled over to port very slowly, depositing us all in the water. We were recovered six hours later.....

Neither of us ever found out what was entered into the official log. He did hear that when the boat was tested back in home port later, she went scudding about the harbour and was fine. But when they came back after lunch, she was full of water and hanging off her painter - so something was very definitely wrong!

It is not a compensation claim - I think we both want to know what happened.

I have the O/N from my discharge book and the date of the incident.

Yes the company still exisit - but we both feel they would be less than helpful!

Any other suggestions?

Jonty


----------



## Billy1963 (Jan 4, 2006)

Log Books and Crew Agreements 1951 to 1976

A 10% sample of all log books from the above period are held at The National Archives at Kew, in classification BT 99 Agreements and Crew Lists, Series 11. 

80% of the records are now held at:

Maritime History Archive,
Memorial University of Newfoundland, 
St. John's, 
Newfoundland, 
Canada, 
A1C 5S7. 

The remaining 10% of these log books and crew agreements are kept at:

National Maritime Museum, 
Greenwich, 
London, 
SE10 9NF. 

This last address keeps the years ending in "5", i.e. 1955, 1965, 1975.

I believe the records were originally sent to Canada to be put on microfilm. Turned out to be to expensive to do, and to expensive to return them.


----------



## ddraigmor (Sep 13, 2006)

Have contacted Canada tonight by e.mail to see whether they can throw light on the entry. Will keep you posted - and thanks!

Jonty


----------



## PollY Anna (Sep 4, 2006)

Paula Marshall is the lady to talk to in Canada, get in touch and I will give you her email address. * Billy 1963 *has it about right, but Kew has all those ending in 0 ie 1950 60 70. I believe that the Guildhall in the City of London also has some log books. It's very easy if you have your discharge book as this gives you the exact dates + the ships Reg. No which is important. Anyway GOOD LUCK

Ron


----------



## Roger Bentley (Nov 15, 2005)

Re the records I suggest that a useful publication is the Public Record Office Readers Guide N0. 20. Titled RECORDS OF MERCHANT SHIPPING AND SEAMEN. This contains a lot information. Recently using a researcher at Kew I got detailed information but it does come at a cost and on my advice a former shipmate using the same source got details of his career and a log entry. Regards, Roger B


----------



## tacho (Oct 13, 2007)

If someone died in this incident I would be surprise if a copy of the OL entry doesn't exist somewhere.


----------



## JoK (Nov 12, 2006)

Are the deck and ER logs archived or just deck?


----------



## ddraigmor (Sep 13, 2006)

Well, I have started to draw the inevitable problems! This back from Paula Marshall in Canada.

Dear Mr. Griffiths:

I am sorry, but we do not hold any crew agreements for the year 1977.

The MHA’s Crew Agreement Collection

The Maritime History Archive holds approximately 80 percent of the surviving crew agreements and official log books of British registered vessels for the periods 1863-1938 and 1951-1976. The National Archives, Kew, has retained all surviving do***ents prior to 1861, and for 1939-1950, as well as a 10 percent sample in the 1861-1938 and 1951-1976 periods. All surviving do***ents for 1861-1862 and years ending in '5' (e.g. 1925 ) are held at the National Maritime Museum, Greenwich

The man who died was not one of our crew, but crew from the coaster we were salvaging. The log book entry I want is the Deck Log Book.......any further ideas as to where next?

Jonty


----------



## treeve (Nov 15, 2005)

Not to put too fine a point on it, you just cannot appear in harbour
and say, we've got a dead body; surely it has to be reported and
investigated by police and marine authorities, at least? Doesn't it
have to go in the harbourmasters diary? What about the records of
the ship that was being salved. Isn't there a procedure to be followed
when salving a ship on a legal basis? There surely is a paper trail a
mile wide on something like that. Beyond maritime records. Then there
is the matter of civil records for the Registrar of Births Deaths & Marriages.
Was there not an item in a newspaper? 
Just mulling some ideas .... Best Wishes, Raymond


----------



## ddraigmor (Sep 13, 2006)

Treeve,

How right you are - it was in Southern Ireland and there was no harbourmaster. Just the Garda. The assaulted was Greek, the assaulter Egyptian.

Any investigation or cause was not disclosed to us - statements were taken and at the enquiry we heard death was caused by a blow to the head (from afire axe) resulting in trauma. However, being immersed in sea water didn't help. As far as I know - and this is only hearsay - the man responsible was extradited. Second hand info....

Part of the issue is that I now have reason to believe that there was a serious fault with the workboat. In conversation with a fellow survivor, the idea that the neoprene seal between the hull parts defaulted. One minute the boat was dry, the next she is half filled with water - we both recall it was that fast. Then it over turned. The cvompany wanted it kept low key so I am now suspecting I was told what I was decided should be told. I was young, it was an adventure. Now I am older and I want answers....

I heard from the fellow survivor - and remember this is something from the distant poast - that when they recovered the boat and the vessel got home they conducted trials. Dry as a bone after scudding about the harbour - yet when they came back from lunch, she was sunk on her painter.....I had left by then. This info was only revealed to me a few days ago. If that is the case, then there was something seriously wrong with the boat and how long had she been like that? Was my life - and the lives of the others - placed at risk due to it? I am not after any form of compensation, I hasten to add, but I would like to know the facts. Not what I was told and have been told any ex employees with a vested interest in toeing the company line. I am not the only one....

Newsparer stories? yes, the local paper headlines 'Six Hour Sea Rescue Drama for Tug Crew'....

It is 31 years ago Treeve! Now I want more answers than what I was given at the time! 

Jonty


----------



## treeve (Nov 15, 2005)

I am not sure as to whether or not the Access to Information Act
covers this situation. The Garda's records will be still in store.
Where was the unfortunate Egyptian taken. What about his family?
The Garda will have his name, it can then be traced back to the 
Egyptian authorities, surely? They may have as much interest in 
this as you do, at this time, if it was not settled to their needs at
the time. Would the Marine Accident Authority have been involved?
I don't know about Garda requirements, but I would have expected
the evidence to be still under seal, and it may be possible for modern
forensic techniques to show more information than was found at the time.
To freight a body requires a lot of paperwork.
To bury a body requires a lot of paperwork
I will keep thinking ... Best Wishes, Raymond


----------



## Billy1963 (Jan 4, 2006)

What was the ships name and official number?

Log Books and Crew Agreements 1977 - 1995

A 10% sample of all log books for the above period 1977 to 1995 are held at The National Archives, in classification BT 99: Agreements and Crew Lists, Series 11.


----------



## ddraigmor (Sep 13, 2006)

Billy,

Don't want to open it up on here until I have my facts 100% correct although I did write about it in the Tugs thread (Tales of a Tugman, I think it's called!).

I like the Garda angle and may well see what I can find on the websitre. The Sargeant in charge was called - I think - Tim Collins and he was based at Dingle so that might narrow it down. I'll keep pushing!

Jonty


----------



## Billy1963 (Jan 4, 2006)

Sorry Jonty,

If you did not want to "open it up on here", I can't understand why you posted it in the first place. You mention an article you had written for publication in SeaBreezes, which I asume the ship would have to be mentioned by name for publication. The Log Book if still available at Kew for 1977 are part of the Public Records Office (now The National Archives) and are avaiable for anyone to view, so no big deal. The 10% chance they may still exist is all you have to go on. If you would like me to send the direct link to the TNA database for you to put the ships Official Number in and check let me know.


----------



## ddraigmor (Sep 13, 2006)

Billy,

The ship was the 'Afon Goch' and her ON was 366498 - you are right. 

It's just something that I heard recently has me asking more questions and I feel like I was fobbed off all those years ago!

Yep, putting the link up would be great!

Jonty


----------



## Billy1963 (Jan 4, 2006)

Jonty,

Ran a search at Kew for her 1977 Log Book using the O.N. you mention, unfortunately it no longer exists.


----------



## ddraigmor (Sep 13, 2006)

Billy,

Ta - you are a star - so it looks lie the sources I need may well be a start with the Garda then.....

Jonty


----------



## treeve (Nov 15, 2005)

I found your page ... first one on the google results. 
and on shipspotting thread ...
Why don't you add the URLs to this thread? Raymond


----------



## ddraigmor (Sep 13, 2006)

They are around if folk seriously want to delve!

E mailed the Garda Reserach Unit to see if they can give me a direction.

Jonty


----------



## ddraigmor (Sep 13, 2006)

Garda responded with an address for the district Commissioner in the area we were involved in. Looks like there may well be some answers!

Jonty


----------



## Jose Nieto (May 20, 2011)

Dear freinds; I was in 1947 Radio-man, of the Texaco Alabama, it was a tanker Liberty type. Today i live in Puerto Rico


----------

