# Sugar Line



## clive jones

Joined Sugar Line from Gravesend Sea School.

Importer, Refiner, Crystal, Producer, Trader, Carrier.

Remember some great times + good runs.

Would be interested to track down any other crew members.


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## sailor63

*sugar line.*

Hello Clive, refiner, jan-feb 65, sapphire,mar-may, 68, carrier,apr-dec, 68, producer, feb-june 69, sapphire, nov-69-mar 70, producer, apr-may 70. good memories of these ships. Cheers, Colin.K.


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## clive jones

sailor63 said:


> Hello Clive, refiner, jan-feb 65, sapphire,mar-may, 68, carrier,apr-dec, 68, producer, feb-june 69, sapphire, nov-69-mar 70, producer, apr-may 70. good memories of these ships. Cheers, Colin.K.


Thank you Colin, I came along a few years after you approx 1975.
Spending many years then steaming around on most of them
Trinidad and Jamaca regular runs, leaving from Silvertown.
Had some good times with that company.
Best Wishes 
Clive


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## Jimmyebikes

sailor63 said:


> Hello Clive, refiner, jan-feb 65, sapphire,mar-may, 68, carrier,apr-dec, 68, producer, feb-june 69, sapphire, nov-69-mar 70, producer, apr-may 70. good memories of these ships. Cheers, Colin.K.


Hi Sailor63, did you ever sail with my grandfather Jimmy English, from Liverpool,engineroom storekeeper, little fella, joined Sugar Line after he finished on Canadian Pacific ship, Empress of Canada?.
I done a couple of trips on the M.V. Benefactor of T&J Harrisons on the bulk sugar runs,one back to Liverpool from Georgetown, British Guyana,another to Silvertown from Georgetown with a top up at Belize. Always found that if a country could grow sugar or bananas the loading port was guaranteed a brilliant run ashore for us,half days,cheap booze(Rum)cheap women and a bronzy(apart from the rainy season in Guyana).
Many regards Jim English.


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## derek dee

sailed on the producer early 70 ts had a month loading in that lagoon at savana la mer then to salt river a great trip great crowd for some reason the bar was closed but no problem there is plenty of green stuff growing in jamacia [blood clat man] great times we were lucky to say the least


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## chippy58

clive jones said:


> Thank you Colin, I came along a few years after you approx 1975.
> Spending many years then steaming around on most of them
> Trinidad and Jamaca regular runs, leaving from Silvertown.
> Had some good times with that company.
> Best Wishes
> Clive


hi clive i was on sugar trader jan 76 like you savana la mar salt river about 5-6 weeks negril looked different then just a bar at the top of cliffs and american ladies sunbathing nude on the beach i was cattering boy i had a great time


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## clive jones

Thank you for thread,many many years ago now.
But remember clearly weekend's on Negril beach and Island hopping among the rich and famous. People will pay a fortune for that now.


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## chippy58

the one thing i remember obout that trip was the captain getting a dose from one of deffys girls in savana la mar


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## petermc

chippy58 said:


> hi clive i was on sugar trader jan 76 like you savana la mar salt river about 5-6 weeks negril looked different then just a bar at the top of cliffs and american ladies sunbathing nude on the beach i was cattering boy i had a great time


On Sugar Transporter 1958/59 Savannah La Mar and Salt River just anchor ports then no runs ashore.Made up for it at Kingston and Port Royal.


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## Tony the pilot

Producer 76-77, Crystal 77, Refiner & Transporter, back to Refiner and I finished on the last run for the Trader Tilbury grain to Rotterdam. I was apprentice and seem to remember all the company PO's acted as crew for the last trip. About 1979?

Piloting now in Bristol.

All the best,
Tony Anderton


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## Leratty

Sugar exporter two trips, marvellous . Good crew all stayed for next trip think 1st trip was the big Heinz Bake beans strike "we want Heinz" as they marched around the foredeck  We went to Rotterdam for a short run before leaving London on the 2nd trip. 
Chipp58, how the f did you know he got a dose? We would never have known that, it would have been seriously hushed up. Must say never saw the skipper ashore in any of the joints we went too  Wonder what they did, go to dinner with the agent I guess?


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## chippy58

*sugar trader*

the chief steward told us before we got off


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## tiachapman

sailed on the old sugar transporter 1956 A WAR TIME BUILT SHIP / A JEEP / good canteen at plastow and the jubilee pub over the road


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## George Bis

chippy58 said:


> hi clive i was on sugar trader jan 76 like you savana la mar salt river about 5-6 weeks negril looked different then just a bar at the top of cliffs and american ladies sunbathing nude on the beach i was cattering boy i had a great time


Hi Clive,
It was a good trip. I was the 3rd.Mate. How time flies!


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## keith humphreys

*Exporter.*

Hi All 
Sailed on exporter 1974, first trip jnr/eng, joined in Silvertown, to Trinidad and back, cant remember the deck officers,the capt was i believe Welsh like myself, the second was from Hull and was named
Steve Beverage, the 3rd was a scouse named Alf Nelson, and I think the
Chief was called Vincent Guibara if thats the correct spelling long time ago now,one trip only good time,from there went to Geest line.
Regards.
Keith Humphreys.


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## George Bis

I think I was 3nd.Mate that voyage. Did the Electrician glue his teeth with bostick ?


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## George Bis

Sorry that last was rather brief. If I remember the Old Man was Chris Davies, the 2nd. Mate was Mr.McConvill , the Chief and the others were who you said.
She had a Cape Verde deck crew.
I was only on her one trip as I was phoned at home to stand in for someone else. It was for me an enjoyable enough trip with, if I remember were smooth seas. Actually I stayed some time (until 1979) with Sugar Lines and really enjoyed it


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## keith humphreys

*False teeth*

Hi George.
Now you have mentioned teeth I do seem to remember the lecky
doing that caused a bit of a laugh in the bar,I seem to remember 
somebody nearly choking on there pint when he told us, his name
was john and he was from Hull,sailed with him a couple years later
in Common Brothers.
Did you ever sale with anybody else I mentioned in last post.
Regards.
Keith.


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## George Bis

Hi Keith,
It certainly seems that we were shipmates on that voyage. Unfortunately I was only on her for that one voyage and as I joined at the last min. in London and as I did not drink at sea I did not get to do any socialising that voyage. How time flies though. 
I met the 3.rd, Engineer Alf in Dublin in 1978 but otherwise never met anyone from that voyage again.
After we were made redundant in 1979 I went into the road haulage industry with TNT where I stayed for four years and then set up on my own. I can't say that is "swept the nation" but I did make a reasonable living for myself.
I am married and semi-retired these days.
How has life treated you since the Merchant Navy?
Anyway, nice hearing from you and best wishes.
George Bisacre


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## keith humphreys

*Exporter*

Hi George.
Well it's a funny world after what after 40 years we realise we were on
the same ship.
After I left the Merchant Navy, I returned to the fork lift truck industry
and did that till 2005,when my wife and myself moved to Spain had
4 years there until 2009 when we moved back here, so am retired 
now but am thinking about returning to work.
Fancy you meeting old Alfie in Dublin,he seemed a lonely old sort
lived in the mission hotel in Liverpool, I think he had a married Sister
but not sure.
Kind Regards
Keith.


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## George Bis

It is a small world and it is frightening where all these years have gone to.
It really doesn't seem over 40 years since the "Exporter" By the way you must have had quite a hard voyage on her as I seem to remember quite a few breakdowns on the way to Trinidad.
When I met Alf in Dublin he was taking his leave in, if I remember the Flying Angel. I was traveling from Sligo to Liverpool and he hailed me at the bar. We had a beer and that was it.
When I was at sea I never had a camera and have very few pictures of my old ships but lately with the internet I have been digging out all sorts of pictures of them with details of what happened to them after they were sold. The "Exporter" and "Importer" are about the only ones I don't have a full history off.
Any way best regards,
George


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## keith humphreys

*Exporter.*

Hi George.
Yes where has 40 years gone, and how many people that we have sailed with during our time are no longer with us sobering thought.
Yes it was for me a baptism by fire in that engine room not really
understanding what was going on,and all those breakdowns,I seem to 
remember being inside the crankcase a number of times,and chiefy 
shouting and balling when he should not have been in the engine room
and bouncing of the enging cos he could not keep his balance,still we managed to keep the old tub going,do you know I don't think I went outside the accomodation once all that trip,don't even no how old the ship was in 1974,I think if I had not been offered a job with Geest line
I might have stayed with sugar line. 
Who did you say the 2nd mate was,and did you know what the 4th eng was called can't remember his name but I do believe he was quite
tall and wore glasses.
Take care George.
Regards
Keith.


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## George Bis

Hi there,
The 2nd.Mate was a man called McConvill (as near as I can spell it) who was an interesting man. He must have been about 60 and had been a P.O.W. with the Italians in WW2. How I can not recall. He was well qualified with a Masters Certificate and seemed to float from job to job.
The Chief Mate was a Londoner as near as I remember and I simply can not remember his name.
I cant remember the 4th.Engineer I am afraid.
I think you had quite a voyage as I seem to remember the 2nd.Engineer putting you all on watch on/watch off. We had no such problems on the bridge. We sat in the sun!
The "Exporter" was a ship to remember as was her sister the "Importer" They were first designed as tankers for Athol Line and changed to bulk carriers during construction. They had later been jumboized to provide a sixth hold.
After that voyage I went home to finish my leave (and follow Scotland's fortunes in the World Cup in Germany. After that it was off to Trinidad to join the Sugar Carrier, almost brand new and great after the previous two.
Hard to think of where we were 40 years ago.
Sorry all this is a bit rambling.
George


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## keith humphreys

*Exporter*

Hi George.
I do seem to remember now you have said,spending some time on a
couple of watches, I think it was the possibility of a major breakdown,
cant remember if there was another J/Eng on board to cover the other
six hours,i think i was doing 12/6, so maybe thats why i didn't see 
much outside the ship,or for that matter maybe even you.
I did travel back to South Wales on the train with the Capt. He was
a good chap,was he the same with you.
I think I did nearly every voyage with good guys no real old time 
Captains or Chiefs, you now the type,all mine were approachable
and fair, I know I left that ship having actually learnt something, stood me in good stead for my other ships, although they were of a more modern type.
What part of the country are you in.
Keep in touch.Regards
Keith.


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## George Bis

Hi Keith,
I really enjoyed my time at sea and although there were ships like the "Exporter" I don't think we realised just what a good job it was. The only reason I went ashore was that Sugar Lines had closed and I was not keen on working under foreign flags. Also I got quite a good job with T.N.T. where I could walk to work and be home every night of the year! None of this was planned, just how it happened.
According to Sugar Line galley radio life on the" Exporter" did not change after we left her. She went on a lengthy voyage which was described by one person as "worst voyage in history". I know that she went to the South Seas and one of the crew fell asleep under a coconut tree and a coconut fell on him. Before you laugh he had to be hospitalised!
From the deck point of view the big problem with the "Exporter" and her sister the "Importer" (I had just done 6 months on her before the "Exporter") was the hatches which were McGregor bot of a strange design. Each lid had to be pinned to the others which meant that the deck crew had to climb on the hatch comings of an empty hold to do this. Today they would have safety harnesses at the very least. Times change. 
Regards,
George


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## keith humphreys

*Exporter*

Hi George.
There must have been lots of ships like the Exporter,and I'm sure a
lot of them were Foreign Flags,I certainly did not see a bad ship again
but I suppose you have to keep an open mind about bad ships and
probably a lot of good times were had on ships of that ilk.
My time at sea was very good and I have a lot of good memories,
But it was nice on leaving to come ashore to be home at night. 
Kind Regards.
Keith.


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## Tim Davies

George Bis said:


> Sorry that last was rather brief. If I remember the Old Man was Chris Davies, the 2nd. Mate was Mr.McConvill , the Chief and the others were who you said.
> She had a Cape Verde deck crew.
> I was only on her one trip as I was phoned at home to stand in for someone else. It was for me an enjoyable enough trip with, if I remember were smooth seas. Actually I stayed some time (until 1979) with Sugar Lines and really enjoyed it


Chris Davies was my dad and me and my sister did a voyage from Silvertown to Trinidad in the summer of that year, I remember the second mates name being Ken Crow! I Remeber when we got to Trinidad we sailed up a river and docked by some old big wharehouse any idea which river this would have been?


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## George Bis

Tim Davies said:


> Chris Davies was my dad and me and my sister did a voyage from Silvertown to Trinidad in the summer of that year, I remember the second mates name being Ken Crow! I Remeber when we got to Trinidad we sailed up a river and docked by some old big wharehouse any idea which river this would have been?


In my time we always went to Point Lisas for sugar when we went to Trinidad. If I remember it was south of Port of Spain and shipped sugar and ammonia(nice mix)
I enjoyed sailing with Chris. He was well thought off.
Where did he get too after Sugar Line?


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## Tim Davies

Hi George, thanks for your reply so much for my memory as a kid I had a look at Point Lisas on Google Earth more of a lagoon than a river eh! So my dads still about living in Swansea...not up to much nowadays after giving up the tobacco and hard drink. Anyway I thought you might be interested in the following videos I found on youtube you can follow the links https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAOUqGayL2c also in this second one I think my dad appears about half way through.... im sure you will spot people you know! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09FyK4jgiag


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## George Bis

Tim Davies said:


> Hi George, thanks for your reply so much for my memory as a kid I had a look at Point Lisas on Google Earth more of a lagoon than a river eh! So my dads still about living in Swansea...not up to much nowadays after giving up the tobacco and hard drink. Anyway I thought you might be interested in the following videos I found on youtube you can follow the links https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAOUqGayL2c also in this second one I think my dad appears about half way through.... im sure you will spot people you know! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09FyK4jgiag


Thanks Tim,
I agree lagoon describes Point Lisas well. I believe it is hand made and in the 1970's had a wharf with a fixed loader(we had to move the ship every time we changed holds) and also a manifold to load liquid ammonia into tankers. Regards to Chris and tell him that George Bisacre sends his regards. I will watch the videos.


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## Locking Splice

Hi Tim,

Brilliant little films, was on the Producer in 76 and the Refiner in 78, the Officer with the beard looks like the Mate of the two above ships when I sailed on them.
Happy days, great little company.

Best Regards

Yuge.


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## George Bis

George Bis said:


> Thanks Tim,
> I agree lagoon describes Point Lisas well. I believe it is hand made and in the 1970's had a wharf with a fixed loader(we had to move the ship every time we changed holds) and also a manifold to load liquid ammonia into tankers. Regards to Chris and tell him that George Bisacre sends his regards. I will watch the videos.


Have now watched the videos and will watch them again. Felt really strange to be "on board" the Sugar Producer after all this time.
I was on her as 3/M in 1972 when we did a trip to Jamaica i.e. Savana le Mar and Salt River. Discharged in London and then Point Lisas, Trinidad to London. I pay'd off in Shields.

The second time on her was in 1979. Joined as 3rd.Mate and promoted 2nd.Mate after two weeks. We went up the Great Lakes with steel from Middlesbrough then a back load of coke breeze for Immingham Then off to Port Cartier on the St Laurence, Canada and loaded iron ore for Glasgow.
Tate & Lyle sold all their ships at that point and the "Sugar Producer" became the "Cape Avanti Due" of Liberia with Greek owners


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## George Bis

George Bis said:


> Thanks Tim,
> I agree lagoon describes Point Lisas well. I believe it is hand made and in the 1970's had a wharf with a fixed loader(we had to move the ship every time we changed holds) and also a manifold to load liquid ammonia into tankers. Regards to Chris and tell him that George Bisacre sends his regards. I will watch the videos.


Amazing to see people that I knew 40 years ago. As well as the Captain I am 90% sure the Pilot was Captain Richardson and the helmsman Ron Butcher or Butler. He was Mud Pilot and the two of them did all the Sugar Line berthing in my time. The 3/M with the beard seems vaguely familiar but I can put a name too him.
Thanks for all this and sorry to be vague with names. It is a long time ago.


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## joebuckham

George Bis said:


> Amazing to see people that I knew 40 years ago. As well as the Captain I am 90% sure the Pilot was Captain Richardson and the helmsman Ron Butcher or Butler. He was Mud Pilot and the two of them did all the Sugar Line berthing in my time. The 3/M with the beard seems vaguely familiar but I can put a name too him.
> Thanks for all this and sorry to be vague with names. It is a long time ago.


hi George I left sugar line 1972. the mud pilot was certainly ron butcher and the pilot was (allowing for42 years of brain cell fatigue)the choice pilot, stafford miller (Thumb)


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## alan ward

Who`s the Old Man,is it Leaver?


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## George Bis

joebuckham said:


> hi George I left sugar line 1972. the mud pilot was certainly ron butcher and the pilot was (allowing for42 years of brain cell fatigue)the choice pilot, stafford miller (Thumb)


You could be correct. I joined Sugar Line in June 1972 and Captain Richardson was the choice pilot whenever I was on the Thames and always worked with Ron. Never heard of any others but perhaps I stand corrected.


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## french47

I sailed on the Exporter joined in 1966 first trip Silvertown to Tampa loaded with Phosphates then through the Panama canal to Australia. Discharged in Cairns then down to Newcastle then upto Bundaberg and Mackay for sugar and a run home.
next time Silvertown to Corpus Christi Texas for grain, down to Port of Spain to Bunker across to Cape town then Durban and Lourenco Marques to bunker and a cross to Discharge in Kandla in India. return trip much the same. Back to the UK discharged in Silvertown the up to South shields for dry dock. Paid off.


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## George Bis

alan ward said:


> Who`s the Old Man,is it Leaver?


We think it is Chris Davies. Sounds awful to be so vague as I sailed with both but I am poor on faces and it is 40 years!


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## George Bis

french47 said:


> I sailed on the Exporter joined in 1966 first trip Silvertown to Tampa loaded with Phosphates then through the Panama canal to Australia. Discharged in Cairns then down to Newcastle then upto Bundaberg and Mackay for sugar and a run home.
> next time Silvertown to Corpus Christi Texas for grain, down to Port of Spain to Bunker across to Cape town then Durban and Lourenco Marques to bunker and a cross to Discharge in Kandla in India. return trip much the same. Back to the UK discharged in Silvertown the up to South shields for dry dock. Paid off.


You seem to have a merry trip on her. I visited Kandla on the "Importer" played a cricket match against the local customs officials. We only had one bat after the Lecky hit the ball too hard and that was the high spot of our visit.


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## french47

Hi George, we played football on an estate of flats, It was a hard game and I don't remember who won. When we left we got bricks and bottles thrown at us. Also half the ships crew went down with gippo guts due to shore made ice that we had used to cool beer cans.


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## alan ward

George Bis said:


> We think it is Chris Davies. Sounds awful to be so vague as I sailed with both but I am poor on faces and it is 40 years!


He just looked familiar,Leaver was so short he always made me sit down in his company or else he remained seated.He once said `I don`t know what`s wrong with the officers on this ship,all they do is play crib and drink rum`


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## George Bis

french47 said:


> Hi George, we played football on an estate of flats, It was a hard game and I don't remember who won. When we left we got bricks and bottles thrown at us. Also half the ships crew went down with gippo guts due to shore made ice that we had used to cool beer cans.


Not a spot for holidays! The people (crowds gathered) were actually quite friendly at the cricket match and we adapted to the cir***stances as best we could (only one set of bales)
To prevent a rout the umpires called "no ball" whenever one of us was out.


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## George Bis

alan ward said:


> He just looked familiar,Leaver was so short he always made me sit down in his company or else he remained seated.He once said `I don`t know what`s wrong with the officers on this ship,all they do is play crib and drink rum`


Sounds like Jef Leaver. Sailed with him twice (Crystal & Carrier) and got on o.k. though he had his ways. Far as I know he was never on the "Producer" What was the name of the Catering Super.?


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## alan ward

George Bis said:


> Sounds like Jef Leaver. Sailed with him twice (Crystal & Carrier) and got on o.k. though he had his ways. Far as I know he was never on the "Producer" What was the name of the Catering Super.?


I can`t remember the supers name,Leaver and I just did not get along at all.One evening I was in my cabin when the Electrician,who ran the officers bar,asked me for a keg of lager which I supplied.Next morning he and I were summoned by the OM,apparantly he`d closed the bar due to misbehaviour and had the keg in use removed and locked away somewhere and thought I`d known about this and deliberately thwarted him.My protestations of innocence fell on deaf ears and he went mental.Our relationship was fragile already as I resented his interference in every aspect of my running of the department.An EDH injured himself and required medical attention,Leaver turned up as I was cleaning the wound,looked at the damage,got very excited and disappeared, when he returned he`d donned the white cotton top from his uniform cap as a makeshift surgical hat and seemed surprised and very angry that I didn`t have all the equipment for suturing ready to hand.I pointed out that he hadn`t asked me to do so before retiring and that calmed him a little,but he was still displeased.It was not easy to keep a straight face when confronted by a man looking like an enraged Belgian dwarf baker.I was not asked back next trip.


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## George Bis

alan ward said:


> I can`t remember the supers name,Leaver and I just did not get along at all.One evening I was in my cabin when the Electrician,who ran the officers bar,asked me for a keg of lager which I supplied.Next morning he and I were summoned by the OM,apparantly he`d closed the bar due to misbehaviour and had the keg in use removed and locked away somewhere and thought I`d known about this and deliberately thwarted him.My protestations of innocence fell on deaf ears and he went mental.Our relationship was fragile already as I resented his interference in every aspect of my running of the department.An EDH injured himself and required medical attention,Leaver turned up as I was cleaning the wound,looked at the damage,got very excited and disappeared, when he returned he`d donned the white cotton top from his uniform cap as a makeshift surgical hat and seemed surprised and very angry that I didn`t have all the equipment for suturing ready to hand.I pointed out that he hadn`t asked me to do so before retiring and that calmed him a little,but he was still displeased.It was not easy to keep a straight face when confronted by a man looking like an enraged Belgian dwarf baker.I was not asked back next trip.[/QUOTE


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## George Bis

George Bis said:


> alan ward said:
> 
> 
> 
> I can`t remember the supers name,Leaver and I just did not get along at all.One evening I was in my cabin when the Electrician,who ran the officers bar,asked me for a keg of lager which I supplied.Next morning he and I were summoned by the OM,apparantly he`d closed the bar due to misbehaviour and had the keg in use removed and locked away somewhere and thought I`d known about this and deliberately thwarted him.My protestations of innocence fell on deaf ears and he went mental.Our relationship was fragile already as I resented his interference in every aspect of my running of the department.An EDH injured himself and required medical attention,Leaver turned up as I was cleaning the wound,looked at the damage,got very excited and disappeared, when he returned he`d donned the white cotton top from his uniform cap as a makeshift surgical hat and seemed surprised and very angry that I didn`t have all the equipment for suturing ready to hand.I pointed out that he hadn`t asked me to do so before retiring and that calmed him a little,but he was still displeased.It was not easy to keep a straight face when confronted by a man looking like an enraged Belgian dwarf baker.I was not asked back next trip.[/QUOTE
> 
> 
> 
> The mind boggles! I suppose I used a certain amount of selective hearing with him but only about once did I have a real argument with him. The rest of the time he just let me get on with what I was doing and personally there were no complaints. Which ship was this on?
Click to expand...


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## alan ward

Sugar Crystal July to December 1972,Silvertown to Sorel Quebec for pig iron then through Panama to the Japanese coast,Australia for sugar then round the Cape home.He spent 4 months in a permanent strop,everything and anything would send him off on one.Not a happy bloke.


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## George Bis

alan ward said:


> Sugar Crystal July to December 1972,Silvertown to Sorel Quebec for pig iron then through Panama to the Japanese coast,Australia for sugar then round the Cape home.He spent 4 months in a permanent strop,everything and anything would send him off on one.Not a happy bloke.


Not a bad run although you certainly had trials. The thought of the "floating operating theatre" amused me greatly. 
On a more general thought when I retired I hunted out all my old ships on the internet and as they were mostly sold abroad it was really interesting to see what had happened to them. It would be just as interesting to find out what happened too the people.


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## alan ward

On another occasion a 4th.Engineer was working on a job down below and the spanner he was using`kicked back`forcing it apparantly up against something,through his palm and out the back of his hand a bit.The OM came down to inspect the damage, after I`d cleaned off most of the grease and blood he decided that as infection was a real problem he would clean the wound right through,and set to work.To the 4th`s great discomfort he tried and tried to get a piece of lint through the wound with increasing frustration until he discovered that it wasn`t a through and through but two wounds,a deep one in the palm and another less serious on the back of his hand.No apology or f**k all he just knobbed off.


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## George Bis

alan ward said:


> On another occasion a 4th.Engineer was working on a job down below and the spanner he was using`kicked back`forcing it apparantly up against something,through his palm and out the back of his hand a bit.The OM came down to inspect the damage, after I`d cleaned off most of the grease and blood he decided that as infection was a real problem he would clean the wound right through,and set to work.To the 4th`s great discomfort he tried and tried to get a piece of lint through the wound with increasing frustration until he discovered that it wasn`t a through and through but two wounds,a deep one in the palm and another less serious on the back of his hand.No apology or f**k all he just knobbed off.


The 4th.Engineer was not Nigel Copps by any chance? Talk about "Dr Quack!" Fortunately when I sailed with him I can not remember any medical issues and if I remember correctly it was "The Ship Captains Medical Guide" in those days. I did the 5 day's medical course myself but happily never had to put it into practice. Would have loved to have been the fly on the bulkhead.
By the way as I joined the "Crystal" in Feb. 1973 so didn't miss you by much and I suppose Leaver re joined her after his leave.


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## alan ward

I can`t recall trhe 4/e`s name but he was a Scot,guitar playing decent bloke.I never did any shoreside training but was shown how to give injections,suture and administer first aid by successive competent Clan Line Pursers.My last 4 years were spent with Whitco and I was lucky in that nothing truly appalling ever happened whilst we were at sea but we have the embarrassment of a R/O`s missus bowels packing up.She hadn`t taken a **** for weeks before she summoned up the courage to visit me,by then she was in pain and must have been stinking the cabin out.I gave her some laxatives but no chance so we contacted the Red Cross in Geneva who sent a questionnaire to be filled in,by radio,so there we were in the Sparkies cabin as she lay in bed having her hand held by Sparks as the Captain and I asked all the hundreds of questions they needed answering. The OM asked`When did you last have a bowel movement``What does he mean?`she plaintively asked her husband`Oh come on woman when did you last empty your bowels?`we strugggled through this interrogation and awaited a reply.Happily before we had to divert she managed to go,she must have filled the bowl.


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## George Bis

alan ward said:


> I can`t recall trhe 4/e`s name but he was a Scot,guitar playing decent bloke.I never did any shoreside training but was shown how to give injections,suture and administer first aid by successive competent Clan Line Pursers.My last 4 years were spent with Whitco and I was lucky in that nothing truly appalling ever happened whilst we were at sea but we have the embarrassment of a R/O`s missus bowels packing up.She hadn`t taken a **** for weeks before she summoned up the courage to visit me,by then she was in pain and must have been stinking the cabin out.I gave her some laxatives but no chance so we contacted the Red Cross in Geneva who sent a questionnaire to be filled in,by radio,so there we were in the Sparkies cabin as she lay in bed having her hand held by Sparks as the Captain and I asked all the hundreds of questions they needed answering. The OM asked`When did you last have a bowel movement``What does he mean?`she plaintively asked her husband`Oh come on woman when did you last empty your bowels?`we strugggled through this interrogation and awaited a reply.Happily before we had to divert she managed to go,she must have filled the bowl.


What happened to "Black Draft"! That solved the stubbornness cases.
When I was with Denholms I sailed with an Indian crew on one ship and although they were an excellent crew in many ways I have never known so many illnesses clamed. I think the Chief Steward dispensed smarties on various occasions and at each port there was a long list for the Doctor.


----------



## alan ward

We weren`t carrying`Black draught`by then,it was far more civilised.Regarding foreign crews and their constant desire to see a doctor.An old Clan Line Purser Jimmy`Mother Harper`had a logical explanation for it.He believed it was to stockpile prescription medication for their families back home.Seems logical and understandable,if they were charged when at home and they knew what was what,why not? I once watched the baggage being winched ashore during a crew change on the Clan McLeod in Birkenhead,the cargo net landed hard on the quay and as it was lifted clear the ghee was running out of someone case,they obviously regarded shipping home a relatively small amount of hoarded cooking oil worthwhile so just how poor were they?


----------



## George Bis

alan ward said:


> We weren`t carrying`Black draught`by then,it was far more civilised.Regarding foreign crews and their constant desire to see a doctor.An old Clan Line Purser Jimmy`Mother Harper`had a logical explanation for it.He believed it was to stockpile prescription medication for their families back home.Seems logical and understandable,if they were charged when at home and they knew what was what,why not? I once watched the baggage being winched ashore during a crew change on the Clan McLeod in Birkenhead,the cargo net landed hard on the quay and as it was lifted clear the ghee was running out of someone case,they obviously regarded shipping home a relatively small amount of hoarded cooking oil worthwhile so just how poor were they?


The Indian crew I sailed with paid about 1/3 of British wages at the time and I am sure that you are right about stockpiling medications.
The Serang's nephew had to be paid off with medical problems and a drum of silver paint was found in his cabin. All in all though I enjoyed sailing with them and learned a few words of the language. Hindi I think. Strangely seven years later in Iraq I found that I could recognise some of the words the docker's were using (not English) I would welcome information on this


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## Leratty

George, I must be missing something possibly you could explain what "paid off with medical problems and a drum of silver paint was found in his cabin. " Is it being said or implied it was there due to his illness or was it as we used to say being 'borrowed' & he could not due to his illness take it with him?

I have been surprised at learning form the site T&L utilised sub continental crews as when I sailed on the Sugar Exporter it was an all UK crew except for me the one colonial.

My two trips were short but fun the W.I's & Holland. I shall never forget the crew walking the decks one morning with signs stating We want Heinz baked beans." not generic that we were getting at breakfast.

Oh we did not have mud pilots on the wheel when leaving T&L's wharf, yes a Thames pilot. In fact I was on the wheel as we left late one night light ship that is a story I have mentioned before on SN a very funny incident due to over indulgence at the local we used to use.


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## George Bis

Leratty said:


> George, I must be missing something possibly you could explain what "paid off with medical problems and a drum of silver paint was found in his cabin. " Is it being said or implied it was there due to his illness or was it as we used to say being 'borrowed' & he could not due to his illness take it with him?
> 
> I have been surprised at learning form the site T&L utilised sub continental crews as when I sailed on the Sugar Exporter it was an all UK crew except for me the one colonial.
> 
> My two trips were short but fun the W.I's & Holland. I shall never forget the crew walking the decks one morning with signs stating We want Heinz baked beans." not generic that we were getting at breakfast.
> 
> Oh we did not have mud pilots on the wheel when leaving T&L's wharf, yes a Thames pilot. In fact I was on the wheel as we left late one night light ship that is a story I have mentioned before on SN a very funny incident due to over indulgence at the local we used to use.


Sorry to be obscure. The Indian crew I sailed with was on a Denholms tanker and the Serangs nephew was paid off with kidney problems. The drum of paint was found after he had gone.
T & L did occasionally use Rotterdam International Pool crews(the Exporter had a Cape Verde deck crew when I was on her) but that was unusual.
You mentioning "locals" brings back memories. Can you remember which one it was!
Cant remember exactly how Ron Butcher, the Mud Pilot operated but he certainly did some steering


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## DURANGO

french47 said:


> Hi George, we played football on an estate of flats, It was a hard game and I don't remember who won. When we left we got bricks and bottles thrown at us. Also half the ships crew went down with gippo guts due to shore made ice that we had used to cool beer cans.


 i spent a month in hospital back in 1962 due to shore made ice I avoid it all ice in drinks since then


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## George Bis

DURANGO said:


> i spent a month in hospital back in 1962 due to shore made ice I avoid it all ice in drinks since then


Very wise!


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## alan ward

Our deck and catering crowd on the Crystal was London apart from a Geordie cook Brian,they were mainly from Essex the engine room lads were all Aden arabs.One of them came to me after crushing his thumb it looked like a sausage someone had stamped on truly messed up.Luckily we were due in port shortly so I cleaned it up and bandaged it tightly praying I hadn`t damaged it further.A couple of years later I joined the Labrador Clipper in Balboa and on entering the crew mess I saw the same guy sitting at a table.He saw me,gave a big grin and a thumbs up with the scarred but thankfully intact digit.


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## chadburn

DURANGO said:


> i spent a month in hospital back in 1962 due to shore made ice I avoid it all ice in drinks since then


Also keep away from the salted peanuts and the unwrapped Mints on the Bar(Jester)


----------



## George Bis

alan ward said:


> Our deck and catering crowd on the Crystal was London apart from a Geordie cook Brian,they were mainly from Essex the engine room lads were all Aden arabs.One of them came to me after crushing his thumb it looked like a sausage someone had stamped on truly messed up.Luckily we were due in port shortly so I cleaned it up and bandaged it tightly praying I hadn`t damaged it further.A couple of years later I joined the Labrador Clipper in Balboa and on entering the crew mess I saw the same guy sitting at a table.He saw me,gave a big grin and a thumbs up with the scarred but thankfully intact digit.


Apart from one voyage on the "Exporter" with Sugar Line the deck and catering crowd were all from London or if we had been to Shields for dry- dock Newcastle.
You seem to have real medical skills. Glad the thumb healed!


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## Locking Splice

Am sure it was Mr Butcher coming aboard the Sugar Refiner off Gravesend and relieving me on the wheel for the run up to Silvertown and me being sent to help the other Seaman opening the lids ready for the grabs to start lightning her up as soon as we got along side. That was in 78, he was very cheerful and cracked a joke with me as he took the helm, seemed to be getting on in age then.
Took another cargo of Sugar up to Silvertown later that year on the drilling ship Whitethorn, ( we had reverted back to cargo carrying and the Drill gear removed ) but cannot remember him coming out to take her in, probably because she was a lot smaller at 1,513 tonnes.

Regards

Yuge


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## George Bis

Locking Splice said:


> Am sure it was Mr Butcher coming aboard the Sugar Refiner off Gravesend and relieving me on the wheel for the run up to Silvertown and me being sent to help the other Seaman opening the lids ready for the grabs to start lightning her up as soon as we got along side. That was in 78, he was very cheerful and cracked a joke with me as he took the helm, seemed to be getting on in age then.
> Took another cargo of Sugar up to Silvertown later that year on the drilling ship Whitethorn, ( we had reverted back to cargo carrying and the Drill gear removed ) but cannot remember him coming out to take her in, probably because she was a lot smaller at 1,513 tonnes.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Yuge


That is how I remember things being done and he was a likable man. I never knew why that was the system on the Thames i.e. Mud Pilot, and nowhere else? Comments welcome!


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## alan ward

Regarding medical skills I was reminded of a certain ED`s Chief Steward who shall remain nameless as he was exceptionally violent.We had a Sierra Leonian AB who`d picked some anti social disease on our time round the UK coast and were reporting to him every morning for their 250,00 units of penicillin.The C/S had been drinking gin heavily the night before and had a bad case of the shakes.He managed to get the distilled water ampoule opened,get it into the powdered penicillin and syphoned up into the syringe.The AB lowered his pants and the C/S swiped a surgical spirit swab over the chosen site of injection and then froze,his hand was shaking that much he couldn`t possibly complete the process,he tried once,twice and as he failed for the third time smartly slapped the AB`s ****,squirted the solution into the air and said`that`s you done`


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## WilliamH

ED chief stewards, I remember an accident alongside Appa quay. While warping up the quay some crew boys were thrown over the drum end of the windlass, the Chief Steward attended the scene, the injuries were minor except for one, the Chief Steward reported to the Captain who was standing at the bar as follows, " three minor injuries , one has got a broken arm, but I'm sure he had that when he joined in Freetown", so no comeback on the Company.


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## alan ward

We had a bosun trapped between a ventilator and a derrick on the Owerri mada a right mess of his ribs,luckily we were alongside and he was taken ashore immediately,he didn`t rejoin before sailing though.


----------



## George Bis

alan ward said:


> Regarding medical skills I was reminded of a certain ED`s Chief Steward who shall remain nameless as he was exceptionally violent.We had a Sierra Leonian AB who`d picked some anti social disease on our time round the UK coast and were reporting to him every morning for their 250,00 units of penicillin.The C/S had been drinking gin heavily the night before and had a bad case of the shakes.He managed to get the distilled water ampoule opened,get it into the powdered penicillin and syphoned up into the syringe.The AB lowered his pants and the C/S swiped a surgical spirit swab over the chosen site of injection and then froze,his hand was shaking that much he couldn`t possibly complete the process,he tried once,twice and as he failed for the third time smartly slapped the AB`s ****,squirted the solution into the air and said`that`s you done`


I sailed with a Chief Mate(not Sugar Line) who appointed himself the ships "medical expert" He wasn't bad at it but was obsessed with the idea that everyone who called for his services was suffering from an anti social disease no matter what else they complained off. When calling on him with an injured thumb he treated it and then told me "now drop them" It took some time to convince him that the thumb(which was most painful) was really all I was suffering from.
For what it is worth that company had a policy of "volunteering " some of the senior deck officers and C/S's and A & E hospitals.


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## alan ward

One of my favourite medical stories was the enema a Chief Officer once administered to an horrible Hartlepool bosun who hadn`t emptied his bowels for weeks.He,the Chief Officer,got splattered with the results and appeared at the saloon door wailing`It`s my birthday`.What a way to celebrate,sticking a tube up some fellers a**e and pumping gallons of warm soapy water down a funnel.


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## George Bis

alan ward said:


> One of my favourite medical stories was the enema a Chief Officer once administered to an horrible Hartlepool bosun who hadn`t emptied his bowels for weeks.He,the Chief Officer,got splattered with the results and appeared at the saloon door wailing`It`s my birthday`.What a way to celebrate,sticking a tube up some fellers a**e and pumping gallons of warm soapy water down a funnel.


Changing the subject slightly it is funny/pleasant telling these stories so long after we all left the M.N. I am talking about things that I have not thought about in years. Somehow as soon as you stepped off that gangway (or on to it) you went from one world to another and very few people ashore showed any interest in my shipping life. Up S.N.!


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## Stewart J.

Good evening all, haven't checked out this site since retiring over 2 years ago and was pleasantly surprised to see this thread.

I joined Sugar Line in South Shields as a lowly Junior engineer aged 21 in August 1970 joining MV Crystal Sapphire in South Shields, a baptism by fire as I recall. Offered a contact after some months and stayed till September 1979 when I was made redundant on the sale of one of their last vessels. (We were flown home from Bilbao)

Vessels served on, Crystal Sapphire, Sugar Importer, Crystal Diamond, Sugar Refiner, Sugar Transporter, Sugar Carrier, Sugar Exporter, Sugar Crystal and Sugar Trader.

A long time ago.


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## Desbee

Hi all! I have just joined this forum, and am enjoying seeing all your post. I was an AB on Exporter in '61. On the first run I joined in Antwerp where she was in dry dock having gear box repairs. After 3 weeks we sailed but broke down in the Channel and were towed into Falmouth, and eventually left for Cuba. The next trip was to Dominican Republic, and my last was to Gdynia in Poland to pick up sugar that had been sent across Russia by train! I think the Captain was a German by the name of Muller. The Mate had broken his back falling into a hold sometime, and was permanently bent right over. We used to say if he ever fell over he would rock himself to sleep trying to get up! I can say that now as he must be long gone by now as it's over 50 years ago. I would love to hear from anyone left who was on it in those days.
Des


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## George Bis

Stewart J. said:


> Good evening all, haven't checked out this site since retiring over 2 years ago and was pleasantly surprised to see this thread.
> 
> I joined Sugar Line in South Shields as a lowly Junior engineer aged 21 in August 1970 joining MV Crystal Sapphire in South Shields, a baptism by fire as I recall. Offered a contact after some months and stayed till September 1979 when I was made redundant on the sale of one of their last vessels. (We were flown home from Bilbao)
> 
> Vessels served on, Crystal Sapphire, Sugar Importer, Crystal Diamond, Sugar Refiner, Sugar Transporter, Sugar Carrier, Sugar Exporter, Sugar Crystal and Sugar Trader.
> 
> A long time ago.[/QU


----------



## George Bis

Stewart J. said:


> Good evening all, haven't checked out this site since retiring over 2 years ago and was pleasantly surprised to see this thread.
> 
> I joined Sugar Line in South Shields as a lowly Junior engineer aged 21 in August 1970 joining MV Crystal Sapphire in South Shields, a baptism by fire as I recall. Offered a contact after some months and stayed till September 1979 when I was made redundant on the sale of one of their last vessels. (We were flown home from Bilbao)
> 
> Vessels served on, Crystal Sapphire, Sugar Importer, Crystal Diamond, Sugar Refiner, Sugar Transporter, Sugar Carrier, Sugar Exporter, Sugar Crystal and Sugar Trader.
> 
> A long time ago.


Welcome friend! Does the name George Bisacre ring a bell as I was 
3/M on half the ships you mention! I was with Sugar Line from 1972 until the 1979 finish. R.S.V.P.


----------



## George Bis

Stewart J. said:


> Good evening all, haven't checked out this site since retiring over 2 years ago and was pleasantly surprised to see this thread.
> 
> I joined Sugar Line in South Shields as a lowly Junior engineer aged 21 in August 1970 joining MV Crystal Sapphire in South Shields, a baptism by fire as I recall. Offered a contact after some months and stayed till September 1979 when I was made redundant on the sale of one of their last vessels. (We were flown home from Bilbao)
> 
> Vessels served on, Crystal Sapphire, Sugar Importer, Crystal Diamond, Sugar Refiner, Sugar Transporter, Sugar Carrier, Sugar Exporter, Sugar Crystal and Sugar Trader.
> 
> A long time ago.


Welcome friend! Does the name George Bisacre ring a bell as I was 
3/M on half the ships you mention! I was with Sugar Line from 1972 until the 1979 finish. R.S.V.P.


----------



## George Bis

Stewart J. said:


> Good evening all, haven't checked out this site since retiring over 2 years ago and was pleasantly surprised to see this thread.
> 
> I joined Sugar Line in South Shields as a lowly Junior engineer aged 21 in August 1970 joining MV Crystal Sapphire in South Shields, a baptism by fire as I recall. Offered a contact after some months and stayed till September 1979 when I was made redundant on the sale of one of their last vessels. (We were flown home from Bilbao)
> 
> Vessels served on, Crystal Sapphire, Sugar Importer, Crystal Diamond, Sugar Refiner, Sugar Transporter, Sugar Carrier, Sugar Exporter, Sugar Crystal and Sugar Trader.
> 
> A long time ago.


Welcome friend! Does the name George Bisacre ring a bell as I was 
3/M on half the ships you mention! I was with Sugar Line from 1972 until the 1979 finish. R.S.V.P.


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## George Bis

Desbee said:


> Hi all! I have just joined this forum, and am enjoying seeing all your post. I was an AB on Exporter in '61. On the first run I joined in Antwerp where she was in dry dock having gear box repairs. After 3 weeks we sailed but broke down in the Channel and were towed into Falmouth, and eventually left for Cuba. The next trip was to Dominican Republic, and my last was to Gdynia in Poland to pick up sugar that had been sent across Russia by train! I think the Captain was a German by the name of Muller. The Mate had broken his back falling into a hold sometime, and was permanently bent right over. We used to say if he ever fell over he would rock himself to sleep trying to get up! I can say that now as he must be long gone by now as it's over 50 years ago. I would love to hear from anyone left who was on it in those days.
> Des


Sounds quite a trip!


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## Stewart J.

Hi George Bis, your name does seem familiar. (Pint)


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## George Bis

Stewart J. said:


> Hi George Bis, your name does seem familiar. (Pint)


Even if we did not sail together we must have sailed with some of the same people. 
The O/M I sailed with in Sugar Line were George Pirie, Jef Leaver, Griffiths, Brian Evans, Bob Pitts, Peter Sutcliffe, Lancaster, Chris Davis & Dave Thompson. Do any of these sound familiar?


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## Geoff Gower

Was 3 Mate and relief 2nd on Refiner 1959-1961


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## Stewart J.

Sailed with all of them George


QUOTE=George Bis;1183626]Even if we did not sail together we must have sailed with some of the same people. 
The O/M I sailed with in Sugar Line were George Pirie, Jef Leaver, Griffiths, Brian Evans, Bob Pitts, Peter Sutcliffe, Lancaster, Chris Davis & Dave Thompson. Do any of these sound familiar?[/QUOTE]


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## George Bis

Stewart J. said:


> Sailed with all of them George
> 
> 
> QUOTE=George Bis;1183626]Even if we did not sail together we must have sailed with some of the same people.
> The O/M I sailed with in Sugar Line were George Pirie, Jef Leaver, Griffiths, Brian Evans, Bob Pitts, Peter Sutcliffe, Lancaster, Chris Davis & Dave Thompson. Do any of these sound familiar?


[/QUOTE]

Does 1974, Sugar Carrier running bauxite from Surinam and Trinidad to Port Alfred sound familiar? I was 3/M


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## Cadet Adams

Hi. Am greatly enjoying this thread.
I sailed as deck cadet on the Transporter, Crystal, Exporter, Refiner and Sapphire between 72 & 74. Particularly remember Capt. Lancaster - Lanc the Tank - he had a great influence on a young innocent on his first trip! Also remember Leaver, who was a very odd little guy. Came to my cabin as we approached Savanna La Mar, saying 'I hope you don't, and I dont think you will, but just in case you do....', and handed me three packs of Durex. Not sure which of us was most embarrassed!
Many other Officers and crew remembered, but sadly the names have largely left me. I may have a journal somewhere in an attic. A 3rd mate called Crow perhaps, played guitar, was from Beverley or nearby. 
Can still see many faces, perhaps some reminders on here would help with the names?


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## George Bis

Cadet Adams said:


> Hi. Am greatly enjoying this thread.
> I sailed as deck cadet on the Transporter, Crystal, Exporter, Refiner and Sapphire between 72 & 74. Particularly remember Capt. Lancaster - Lanc the Tank - he had a great influence on a young innocent on his first trip! Also remember Leaver, who was a very odd little guy. Came to my cabin as we approached Savanna La Mar, saying 'I hope you don't, and I dont think you will, but just in case you do....', and handed me three packs of Durex. Not sure which of us was most embarrassed!
> Many other Officers and crew remembered, but sadly the names have largely left me. I may have a journal somewhere in an attic. A 3rd mate called Crow perhaps, played guitar, was from Beverley or nearby.
> Can still see many faces, perhaps some reminders on here would help with the names?


Sounds like Jef Leaver. He did mean well although it did not always come out as he intended! Actually, in those days I seem to remember that the O/M/ became the legal guardian of anyone on the ship under 18. Anyone know anything on this subject?
Glad you enjoy this thread. It is surprising what one remembers although like you I really can't remember everyone.


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## DURANGO

George Bis said:


> Even if we did not sail together we must have sailed with some of the same people.
> The O/M I sailed with in Sugar Line were George Pirie, Jef Leaver, Griffiths, Brian Evans, Bob Pitts, Peter Sutcliffe, Lancaster, Chris Davis & Dave Thompson. Do any of these sound familiar?


I was SOS in the Sugar Refiner in 1960 George Pirie was the master it,s a lifetime ago regards to all hands .


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## DURANGO

Cadet Adams said:


> Hi. Am greatly enjoying this thread.
> I sailed as deck cadet on the Transporter, Crystal, Exporter, Refiner and Sapphire between 72 & 74. Particularly remember Capt. Lancaster - Lanc the Tank - he had a great influence on a young innocent on his first trip! Also remember Leaver, who was a very odd little guy. Came to my cabin as we approached Savanna La Mar, saying 'I hope you don't, and I dont think you will, but just in case you do....', and handed me three packs of Durex. Not sure which of us was most embarrassed!
> Many other Officers and crew remembered, but sadly the names have largely left me. I may have a journal somewhere in an attic. A 3rd mate called Crow perhaps, played guitar, was from Beverley or nearby.
> Can still see many faces, perhaps some reminders on here would help with the names?


 I,m looking at my discharge book I was AB in the Crystal Gem in 1967 it looks like the masters signature is Lancaster quite a big man from what I recall and a decent enough fella best regards to all hands .


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## DURANGO

I was also AB in the Crystal. Gem previously in 1962 the masters initials look like E.R.O... I can't make out the surname maybe someone will recall regards to all hands .


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## George Bis

DURANGO said:


> I,m looking at my discharge book I was AB in the Crystal Gem in 1967 it looks like the masters signature is Lancaster quite a big man from what I recall and a decent enough fella best regards to all hands .


Sounds like Neil Lancaster a.k.a. "Lanc the tank" I didn't realise that he was master that far back. Where does the time go too!


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## DURANGO

George Bis said:


> Sounds like Neil Lancaster a.k.a. "Lanc the tank" I didn't realise that he was master that far back. Where does the time go too!


 Do you have his signature in your book if so I could try to copy and post so that you could compare them best regards . I have tried to put the page on the site but no joy I have sent you a message George regards .


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## George Bis

DURANGO said:


> Do you have his signature in your book if so I could try to copy and post so that you could compare them best regards . I have tried to put the page on the site but no joy I have sent you a message George regards .


Unfortunately I am not in the U.K. at the moment but I should be able to do something in April. Sounds like him though! He was from Liverpool.


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## Silver101

No one on the Sugar Carrier then?

This was my first trip in the merchant navy and in some ways frightening as well as a good laugh.
One was sleeping on the side of a lighter for the trip back out to the ship thinking I would wake up as we started to move, only to wake up when we were a mile out to sea. Just a few inches on the side and if I had turned over would have likely ended up in the sea. Good or bad, who knows

I only lasted 5 years but I do remember it we had some great times.


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## Polar

Sailed on Sugar Transporter in 1977-78 as a kid. Went to Jamaica, Barbados , Canada, Dad was Jimmy Kelly Chief Engineer. Anybody remember him.


----------



## George Bis

Polar said:


> Sailed on Sugar Transporter in 1977-78 as a kid. Went to Jamaica, Barbados , Canada, Dad was Jimmy Kelly Chief Engineer. Anybody remember him.


Yes. I sailed with him 2/3 times. If I remember correctly he was Chief on the Sugar Producer when it all finished and the company sold up.


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## Polar

Hi George,

Thanks for the response. 

Roy


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## George Bis

Polar said:


> Hi George,
> 
> Thanks for the response.
> 
> Roy


He and Mike Seaman were the companies two top Chief's Where did Jim get to after Sugar Line closed?


----------



## Polar

After Sugar Line he went coastal with Stephenson Clarke. I did a few trips with him but he always felt leaving deep sea was a mistake. I saw a big difference in the way the ships were managed, sadly he died in 2001 at 61.
All in all I did 5 trips on Transporter Producer and Refiner. The days at Negril are a real but distant memory. I would love to catch up with anyone who worked on the ships during my time on board.


----------



## George Bis

Polar said:


> After Sugar Line he went coastal with Stephenson Clarke. I did a few trips with him but he always felt leaving deep sea was a mistake. I saw a big difference in the way the ships were managed, sadly he died in 2001 at 61.
> All in all I did 5 trips on Transporter Producer and Refiner. The days at Negril are a real but distant memory. I would love to catch up with anyone who worked on the ships during my time on board.


Sorry to hear that he is no longer with us. He was a likable guy and a good Chief. a real leader.
Unfortunately "nostalgia" does bring this. 
I was never on the Transporter or Refiner but was on the Producer as 3/m from June to Sept. 1972 and 2/m on her from May to Nov. 1979
Jim was Chief on her first time round. I sailed with him on the Carrier in 1974 (bauxite to Canada) and then in 1979 Jim joined the Producer in Shields and was there until the finish. 
I don't think any of us who were at sea at that time realised what a good job we had. That is life I suppose.


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## Stu01234

I was a cadet and then 3rd Mate all between 74 and 79. 

This thread makes interesting reading. I sailed on all the ships at some point. My first trip was the Refiner, Captain was Lancaster, Mate was Ozzie Stephenson. 2 very memorable characters, although I might have spelt Ozzies name wrong. 

I didn't know what to make of Ozzie to begin with, but got used to it all after a while. 

One of the trips, the Chief Engineer had his son Royston on the trip. They were from the North East I think. Forgive my memory.

I remember getting good at the table football, sometimes being dragged out of bed to partner Capt Lancaster in doubles, as he was quite competetive, and then when we won usually, I got sent back to bed again, as I was only 17 on my first trip and he thought I was drinking too much and in the bar too much.


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## Polar

Hi Stu01234,

I do remember you and I think i remember the trip, was it to Jamaica and we went to pigeon island when we were in Jamaica? If you remember the island then it is probable that I have a photo. It seems a very very long time ago now but they were undoubtably the best days of my life and I had a wonderful time. Ozzie made me a cap (he made a lot of caps) and I have a great photo of myself wearing it sitting on a tug boat on the way to savanna la mar. Captain Lancaster was a larger than life character, I remember him well.

Did you stay on the ships for long?


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## Stu01234

Hi Polar,

I remember you on the ship, but I can't remember which trip it was on. I don't think I went to Pigeon Island when we were in Jamaica, although it is a long time ago. 

Sorry to hear about your Dad. I remember him being a good bloke, and you a good lad as well. 

Ozzie was mad on making hats from bits out of the rag boxes. He was quite good at them. I remember him getting really annoyed with me when mine blew off my head into the sea. He threatened to never make me another one, then made me one anyway. 

I left Tate and Lyle in 79 and went to Manchester Liners for a year, then packed it all in and got a job ashore in 1980. I have been in jobs ashore ever since, but recently got made redundant, so i am looking for something else to keep me going till my pension kicks in. 

I have lost touch with all the people I sailed with, so a thread like this is good to remember some of the old names.

Glad you enjoyed the trips. A great part of your life. 

Stu


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## Portisheadcanyouhearme

Stumbled across this site while trying to look up some info on Leith Nautical.

I sailed (first trip) as a Marconi junior sparkie on Sugar Transporter in 1975/76. Quite a few names leaping out of the page. I had a good trip on her initially starting in Immingham, Le Harve and then light ship to Duluth just before the seaway froze over but then ended up on anchor off Algeria (Oran) for about 2 months with a load of grain which the Algerians were selling to the Ruskies as this was the time of American grain embargos etc. We spent a fairly miserable Christmas there with not much left in the bond and the food they sent out to us by tug was bloomin terrible.

Think the first OM was Brian Evans (whom I don't think liked Junior R/O's), followed by Neil Lancaster who was a great guy. Ozzie was there too and yes he did indeed make me a cap (think it may still be in a box in the loft). Jim Purcell was either 2nd or 3rd engineer. Archie was a rather likeable large electrician from about Inverness somewhere who was always good at keeping me right as far as etiquette in the bar and mess was concerned..... he could also recite Daniel Morgan non stop no matter how pissed he was. Peter "somebody" was 2nd engineer I think. Andy Goodchild was a junior deck officer and was always up for a game of table tennis which helped keep us sane. I can always remember Ozzie shouting "Where the F**k are you going Andy !" when Andy has notched the autopilot a few degrees too many.

Sad to see the Transporter sank in 1991 off Socotra.

Unfortunately my deep sea career was short lived as the late 70's were the time of the oil boom off Scotland and I got hijacked off to a French flagged survey ship and then to various oil platforms and rigs. Left Marconi to join a Norwegian outfit (Whillemsens) who lost the contract with Shell after I had been there 2 years and we were all made redundant in '86 I think. Did a couple of non R/O things and eventually set up my own Locksmiths business in Edinburgh .... been doing it for 24 years now ! Jeeez where does the time go !


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## Paul Braxton

Hi Portishead... I didn't know the "Transporter" was lost. What happened to her, do you know?

I did two trips with Sugar Line as R/O; first was on the "Crystal Diamond" in '73, the other (with Captain Lancaster, who was indeed a great guy) on the "Sugar Refiner" in '79 I think it was. Both ships great to sail on and loved the runs to Jamaica, especially to the port of Bowden, or Morant Bay on the SE coast, loading sugar there. Went to Botwood, NewFoundland on the "Refiner". So cold there (down to -25C) that the captain's deck area was frozen, all his plumbing inoperable, etc. He had to relocate somewhere down in a spare crew cabin to keep warm. Even with the steam heating on 24/7, blowers on max the whole time, it was incredibly cold, ice built up on the inside of my port to two or three inches at the bottom.

Absolutely brilliant! The ship had two radars, as far as I recall. One had its transmitter mounted on the short mast up on the foc'sle. Just before we arrived in Botwood (in October), there was a fire inside the steel cabinet and the whole lot was destroyed. I ventured up there to have a look, with a screwdriver, shifter and AVO in hand. Couldn't open the steel door to the TX cabinet, the bolts were solid, but when it was finally opened the interior was just a black mess of hanging wires and bits of metal which had once been a radar.

I never had experience of such bitter cold before or since. It was a real eye-opener. Great times up the road though. Snow banked up each side of the main street, frozen solid, and all so early in the season, not even real winter at that time of year.

The locals, working cargo, looked at us as though we were aliens when we stepped ashore, wrapped in thick duffel coats, heavy gloves and the hood of the coat pulled firmly over the head with a part which went over the mouth and nose. They were dressed in just jackets. Absolutely amazing. Lots of stories from that place.


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## Portisheadcanyouhearme

Don't know what happened to her. I was trying to find a photo of her online and came across some info saying she had sunk. Presumably by that time she had been sold off .. There was mention of a Cypriot flag. 

Your Newfounland trip sounds similar to our trip up to Duluth on Lake Superior. Absolutely freezing. Think it was the end of October but there was already a couple of foot of snow and ice formed round the ship when we were at the grain Silos. Capt. Lancaster stopped the AB's tap until we were at the silos in case of any accidents coming up through the locks on the Seaway. 

Sadly I never saw any sugar. When I signed on we were supposed to be off to Oz for iron ore and I couldn't believe my luck but that all changed. After 2 months possibly almost 3 months out in the bay at Oran I was more than happy to take my first ever flight from Oran to Paris and then back up to Scotland.


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## Portisheadcanyouhearme

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/MV_Sugar_Transporter


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## Paul Braxton

I saw lots of sugar! Used to bring large bags of it home to give out to neighbours. The locals working cargo in Jamaica used to fill half a glass with the stuff and top it up with rum. Blackened stumps where their teeth had once been... They'd sit at the winch controls, swigging the concoction. That, or smoking ganja. How the other half live!


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## George Bis

Portisheadcanyouhearme said:


> Stumbled across this site while trying to look up some info on Leith Nautical.
> 
> I sailed (first trip) as a Marconi junior sparkie on Sugar Transporter in 1975/76. Quite a few names leaping out of the page. I had a good trip on her initially starting in Immingham, Le Harve and then light ship to Duluth just before the seaway froze over but then ended up on anchor off Algeria (Oran) for about 2 months with a load of grain which the Algerians were selling to the Ruskies as this was the time of American grain embargos etc. We spent a fairly miserable Christmas there with not much left in the bond and the food they sent out to us by tug was bloomin terrible.
> 
> Think the first OM was Brian Evans (whom I don't think liked Junior R/O's), followed by Neil Lancaster who was a great guy. Ozzie was there too and yes he did indeed make me a cap (think it may still be in a box in the loft). Jim Purcell was either 2nd or 3rd engineer. Archie was a rather likeable large electrician from about Inverness somewhere who was always good at keeping me right as far as etiquette in the bar and mess was concerned..... he could also recite Daniel Morgan non stop no matter how pissed he was. Peter "somebody" was 2nd engineer I think. Andy Goodchild was a junior deck officer and was always up for a game of table tennis which helped keep us sane. I can always remember Ozzie shouting "Where the F**k are you going Andy !" when Andy has notched the autopilot a few degrees too many.
> 
> Sad to see the Transporter sank in 1991 off Socotra.
> 
> Unfortunately my deep sea career was short lived as the late 70's were the time of the oil boom off Scotland and I got hijacked off to a French flagged survey ship and then to various oil platforms and rigs. Left Marconi to join a Norwegian outfit (Whillemsens) who lost the contract with Shell after I had been there 2 years and we were all made redundant in '86 I think. Did a couple of non R/O things and eventually set up my own Locksmiths business in Edinburgh .... been doing it for 24 years now ! Jeeez where does the time go !


Some names from the past. I sailed with Brian Evans and the Lecky Archie (Buchanan I think) on the Sugar Importer and Archie was a larger than life character in every way. He lived in Inverness with his mother and aunt although I think he came from Glasgow. The aunt was housekeeper in an Inverness hotel and was my two sisters boss when they did a holiday job there! Small world.


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## NIGEL C

Hi All
The 4th Eng In This Case Was Not Nigel Copps As I Am Sure I Would Remember This Episode As Bad As My Memory Is! First Time On This Site So Do Not Know If It Is Still Ongoing. Like To Hear If Anybody Remembers Me Was With Sugar Line 71-77.
Sailed On Producer, Sugar Crystal, Exporter, Crystal Sapphire, Transporter, Trader, & Refiner. Good Times Had If My Memory Serves Me Well.


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## George Bis

NIGEL C said:


> Hi All
> The 4th Eng In This Case Was Not Nigel Copps As I Am Sure I Would Remember This Episode As Bad As My Memory Is! First Time On This Site So Do Not Know If It Is Still Ongoing. Like To Hear If Anybody Remembers Me Was With Sugar Line 71-77.
> Sailed On Producer, Sugar Crystal, Exporter, Crystal Sapphire, Transporter, Trader, & Refiner. Good Times Had If My Memory Serves Me Well.


Nice to hear from you Nigel. I think we sailed together on the "Producer" C/E Jim Kelly, later on the "Trader" C/E Mike Seaman and we went to the Gulf.


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## NIGEL C

Hi George,
Fancy meeting you here ! You must have one hell of a memory or kept a good log *** diary of your travels. I did two trips to the Gulf on the trader, one ending in July 75 at Khorramshahr and the other April 76 in Kuwait. Did a fair few trips on Producer from Oct 71 to Dec 72. Remember Jim Kelly well and I think Mike Seaman brought his daughter along for the trip.
Trying to put a face to your name. Did you back in the 70's have a strong head of hair with it being long especially at the front ?


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## George Bis

NIGEL C said:


> Hi George,
> Fancy meeting you here ! You must have one hell of a memory or kept a good log *** diary of your travels. I did two trips to the Gulf on the trader, one ending in July 75 at Khorramshahr and the other April 76 in Kuwait. Did a fair few trips on Producer from Oct 71 to Dec 72. Remember Jim Kelly well and I think Mike Seaman brought his daughter along for the trip.
> Trying to put a face to your name. Did you back in the 70's have a strong head of hair with it being long especially at the front ?


Hi Nige,
I don't remember much about my hair (had side-boards) but I was told that I talked a lot.! If it rings any bells Art Longbottom was Mate, Doug Woods from Hull 2/M. We had a Engineering student if you recall. Also Bob Doule was 4/E I think you were 3/E
I stayed with Sugar Line until 1978 when I went on the coast for a bit, then having finally passed my 2/M came back on the "Producer" as 2/M until we were sold up. 
I really enjoyed my time with Sugar Line and after we finished I went into the Road Haulage industry until I retired a couple of years ago.
Look forward to hearing what you have been doing
George


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## NIGEL C

Hi Again
Well I can now see your face from that last bit of information, remember Arthur Longbottom as a rotund sort of gentleman, you've got me and my one braincell working as a team again. Cannot recall Doug Woods unless he was slim with dark hair. The Engineering Student was Andy something or other with a Degree in Engineering but did not know which way to turn a nut in order to tighten it!
From Sugar Line in August '77 having spent so much time swinging on the hook in the Gulf I went foreign to Arya National Shipping Lines of Iran who wanted people to train their Cadets. An experience and a half that was but very well paid. Did a couple of years with them, got my 2/Eng ticket then went on the Ferries out of Dover/Folkestone for a summer seasonal job in '79. Ended up staying with them for thirteen years until Stena took over and made a load of us redundant. From there with a failed medical I went into semi-retirement and marriage in 91/92.
Did a bit on the Range Boats patrolling the Hythe and Dymchurch Ranges on the side but that eventually folded with government cutbacks so went into full retirement at the early age of 44. Beat that!
So much for the Quick Reply, catch you later,
Nige


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## George Bis

NIGEL C said:


> Hi Again
> Well I can now see your face from that last bit of information, remember Arthur Longbottom as a rotund sort of gentleman, you've got me and my one braincell working as a team again. Cannot recall Doug Woods unless he was slim with dark hair. The Engineering Student was Andy something or other with a Degree in Engineering but did not know which way to turn a nut in order to tighten it!
> From Sugar Line in August '77 having spent so much time swinging on the hook in the Gulf I went foreign to Arya National Shipping Lines of Iran who wanted people to train their Cadets. An experience and a half that was but very well paid. Did a couple of years with them, got my 2/Eng ticket then went on the Ferries out of Dover/Folkestone for a summer seasonal job in '79. Ended up staying with them for thirteen years until Stena took over and made a load of us redundant. From there with a failed medical I went into semi-retirement and marriage in 91/92.
> Did a bit on the Range Boats patrolling the Hythe and Dymchurch Ranges on the side but that eventually folded with government cutbacks so went into full retirement at the early age of 44. Beat that!
> So much for the Quick Reply, catch you later,
> Nige


Hi Nige,
You seem to have done well after Sugar Line. I am most impressed!
My route was a little different but not uneventful. When the company folded up I fully expected to go back to sea but having gone on leave I decided to start thinking about my own life and what did I want to do with it. This led to me buying a house and develop outside interests. There wasn't a lot of shipping work at that time so I took a Storemans job with T.N.T. who were just getting started with the Overnite service. It was 10 min. walk from where I lived and really nice to know that I would be home every night!
I set up my own haulage business in 1985, trained as a bookkeeper and got married in 1998 at the merry age of 49!
I am retired now although I do some Auditing work.
Having time on my hands I used the internet to track the historys of all the ships I was on (the Sugar Trader was the hardest to find) They were almost all sold abroad with the exception of one ship sunk by the I.R.A. and some had had numerous owners.
Hasn't technology changed things. I can remember us having a photocopier on the "Trader" and Arther Longbottom astonishing the Iraq officials with it.
Anyway , nice talking and I hope some more of the old gang appear.


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## NIGEL C

Hi George,
Thanks for the info, very interesting. From your thread you work out to be the same age as me, 67ish give or take a year! Also reckon that you have settled down somewhere near Basildon in Essex. Yes technology has changed things, never thought for one moment I would ever be computer literate. Just shows what being sent on an intro course while on the dole does for you.

Thanks again for the chat and will await for further threads.
Nige


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## George Bis

NIGEL C said:


> Hi George,
> Thanks for the info, very interesting. From your thread you work out to be the same age as me, 67ish give or take a year! Also reckon that you have settled down somewhere near Basildon in Essex. Yes technology has changed things, never thought for one moment I would ever be computer literate. Just shows what being sent on an intro course while on the dole does for you.
> 
> Thanks again for the chat and will await for further threads.
> Nige


Hi Nige
The "B" is correct and I now live in Bolton. When I started to work for T.N.T it was in Ramsbottom, Lancs. which was at that time the H.Q. for T.N.T. U.K. You are spot on with my age. 
I do find computing fascinating, although this is the nearest I have come to "social media" How have you found this?


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## andylo

Hi Portishead, I think I was with you on Sugar Transporter in 1975! Just checked my Discharge Book (sad!!) and signed on in 'Ming Ming' as Cadet on 18 August 1975 and I paid off in Oran on 5 March 1976.
Remember this trip very well especially the freezing weather in the Lakes - I think we were the last vessel out in November!
As you say, Brian Evans was the OM until Casablanca (I think) with Ozzie as Mate - he made the caps from scraps from the rag bins in the colurs of your football team! As you say, very much a larger than life character who I think had Burmese Ancestry via the Tyne. I recall being bo**cked by him whilst steering in the Dover Strait! 
I have a photo of you (wearing cap) on the wooden deck aft of the Bar!!
Archie MacPherson was the 'Lecky - another huge character as you note, and I also remember Tim MacGuire was a Cadet on board who also paid off in Casablanca. I sailed with Tim a few times!
As you note, 'Lanc the Tank' joined in Casablanca and was still on board when I paid off in Algeria. I think the vessel remained at anchor for several more months after we left waiting to discharge grain from Duluth which was then shipped to the then USSR.
Amazing when a few names are mentioned the memories come flooding back!
I retired last May and am pulling together some photos and memories of my time at sea - 4 years with Sugar Line and then 30 years with NERC (at sea and ashore) on research ships finishing off with a few years in harbour towage and with Sealion (both ashore).
Great t0 hear your stories, Andy


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## Portisheadcanyouhearme

Hi Andy. Good to hear you're still alive and kicking. 
Think you paid off in Oran before me. I was supposed to take one of the Donkeymen back with me but he was too ill to travel. I ended up at the airport by myself having never flown before. Had a stack of mail to take back mostly from the guys that had just joined the ship. Customs at the airport took exception to my bulging hand luggage and made me open up every single item of mail. Thankfully nobody had put anything stupid in it and Air France kindly held the flight. I was ****ting myself as the agent had pissed off as soon as he dropped me off. 
Ive got quite a few slides of that trip up in the lift (somewhere). I'll try and find them if I get a chance.


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## Stu01234

Been sent an email that this thread has been updated, as I have contributed before, so I have logged in and am reminiscing. 

It got me thinking of names of people that I sailed with when I was cadet then 3rd Mate, from 1974 - 1979 ish. 

Some names already mentioned, the infamous Neil Lancaster and Ozzie Stevenson. 

Memory a bit cloudy nowadays, but other names - 

Cadets - Michael, Simon, Gavin, can't think of the surnames at the moment. 
Another with a surname of Diamond. 

3rd Mates - Rob from Yorkshire, Steve ( long hair ), Roger Shore, 

2nd Mates - Telford Evans, Doug ( with wife Maggie), 

Mates - Bill Brothers, Ian Gravatt, 

Engineers - Clive ( Junior Eng), Jim Kelly (Chief, already mentioned in previous posts, with his son Royston) 


Captain - Thompson. 

Lecky - Vic ( from Canvey Island, I think)

Bosun - Bill ( came back from being a lorry driver)

Chippy - Dave Joryff ( spelling? )

Sparky - Irish lad. 

Stewards - Jim, 

I will try and think of some others.


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## George Bis

Stu01234 said:


> Been sent an email that this thread has been updated, as I have contributed before, so I have logged in and am reminiscing.
> 
> It got me thinking of names of people that I sailed with when I was cadet then 3rd Mate, from 1974 - 1979 ish.
> 
> Some names already mentioned, the infamous Neil Lancaster and Ozzie Stevenson.
> 
> Memory a bit cloudy nowadays, but other names -
> 
> Cadets - Michael, Simon, Gavin, can't think of the surnames at the moment.
> Another with a surname of Diamond.
> 
> 3rd Mates - Rob from Yorkshire, Steve ( long hair ), Roger Shore,
> 
> 2nd Mates - Telford Evans, Doug ( with wife Maggie),
> 
> Mates - Bill Brothers, Ian Gravatt,
> 
> Engineers - Clive ( Junior Eng), Jim Kelly (Chief, already mentioned in previous posts, with his son Royston)
> 
> 
> Captain - Thompson.
> 
> Lecky - Vic ( from Canvey Island, I think)
> 
> Bosun - Bill ( came back from being a lorry driver)
> 
> Chippy - Dave Joryff ( spelling? )
> 
> Sparky - Irish lad.
> 
> Stewards - Jim,
> 
> I will try and think of some others.


2/M Doug Woods & Cadet Graham Diamond I sailed with both on them on the Sugar Trader


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## andylo

Hi Stu, thanks for comments. As you did, I spotted this post a couple of years ago and was reminded of the comments when I found some old photos and decided to put them together in an Aldi photobook! I retired last summer so now have a bit of time to get this project going!!
It's great being reminded of some of the names of old shipmates - George has reminded me of quite a few people I sailed with in my 4 years with Sugar Line. I left them after completing a last 9 month trip on the Carrier once I'd got my Second Mates ticket and the spent 30 years on research ships both afloat and ashore.
Other names I remember (some of whom have already been noted):

Masters; 
George Pirie, Brian Evans, 'Drew Lunn, 'Lanc the tank', Peter Sutcliffe, Bob Pitts, Geoffrey Leaver, Colin Davies

Mates;
John Allen, Ernie Windsor, Ozzie Stephenson, Ian Gravatt, Arthur Longbottom, Al Smith

Second Mates;
Ted Houghton, Steve 'Dynamite' Dixon!, Pat Leach, Mike Carroll

Third Mates;
Glen 'Suarvey' Havey, Dave Sherwin

Cadets;
Willie Graham, Tim McGuire, Andy Stirling, Chris Wright, Eddie Wishart

C/E;
Mike Seaman, Jim Kelly, Ian (?) Beveridge

2/E;
Don Taggart, Stew Hingston

3/E;
Ian Perrott, Les Savage

'Leckies;
Archie Buchanan, Ken Eames

Cat Off;
Frank Gillard, Brian Tierney

Bosun;
Harry Bramley

Chippy;
? Ironsides

I sailed with a second engineer later (ex Blue Star) who kept a notebook with each ship listed, crew names and a note of any 'interesting' anecdotes about the trip including runs ashore! It was a great 'memory jogger' and would have made life a lot easier 40 years on!!
I don't think I would have bothered if I hadn't (in a bored moment at work a few years ago!) Googled Sugar Line!!
VBR Andy


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## George Bis

Some names here that bring back a lot of memories. Would be great to know how some are getting on.
Did anyone sail with Capt. Griffiths.? That was an experience!
Simon Philips 2m is someone else I remember happily.


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## Stu01234

Of course, Doug Woods and Graham Diamond. Thanks George. Good lads. 

Andy's list is interesting as well. Some names that bring back memories. I was trying to think of Andy Stirling's name. He was a good lad as well. He was 3rd mate when I sailed with him, we went to Disneyland when we were in the States. Great day. 

I have remembered a couple of surnames of the one that I listed., both 3rd mates - Rob Hales , Steve Hill 

Some others - Mick Sellars (cadet ), Paul Mason ( 3rd mate)


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## George Bis

Andy Stirling I think I sailed with as Cadet, the same with Robbie Hales.
Steve Hill and Paul Mason sound familiar but I can't remember where.
Come to that does George Bisacre 2&3 Mate ring any bell!


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## Stu01234

George, the name does sound familiar, but I am trying to think if we sailed together, or if it is just familiar through this thread. We certainly seem to know some of the same people. 

I was Stuart McCrea, in fact I still am. 

A couple of other names I have thought of, Cadet Eric Froud and a lecky from Wales called Dave I think. Also an engineer, I think he was called Rich, we flew home from the Gulf, a group of us, and we all stayed the night in London at Rich's sisters flat, 14 floors up. Went out on the balcony in the morning for a breath of air, didn't realise we were that high up. It sobered me up pretty quick.


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## Stewart J.

Had forgotten all about this thread, nice to see a few names I recognise (and some I'd forgotten and nice to be reminded of) what a long time ago it all seems and of course is. I remained at sea till retiring in 2012 (redundancy aged 62) After Sugar Line I went into the oil industry, dive boats, seismic survey. supply as Chief Engineer, then into the Caspian for three years with BUE. From there Serco Denholm based on the Clyde for the last 12 years, most enjoyable and almost day working, small vessels 8 - 5pm working usually on shore power overnight. Great way to end a career. My name for those who may remember is Stewart Hingston, (a Geordie) a keen birdwatcher so I was always wandering around the decks when weather allowed binoculars around my neck and a camera with telephoto lense which may help some remember me.


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## andylo

Hello Stewart J., yes we sailed together on Sugar Carrier (my last trip with the Company) and I remember your birdwatching exploits! In fact, you encouraged me to get interested and I later joined the RNBWS when I moved to NERC!
I seem to remember you climbing up one of the deck cranes to get closer to Lanner Falcon when we were anchored in the Gulf somewhere!
I was at sea with NERC until 1994 then ashore with them until 2008 and finally shore jobs with Svitzer Towage and Sealion. Took early retirement last year!


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## Ian Lawson

Stu01234 said:


> Of course, Doug Woods and Graham Diamond. Thanks George. Good lads.
> 
> Andy's list is interesting as well. Some names that bring back memories. I was trying to think of Andy Stirling's name. He was a good lad as well. He was 3rd mate when I sailed with him, we went to Disneyland when we were in the States. Great day.
> 
> I have remembered a couple of surnames of the one that I listed., both 3rd mates - Rob Hales , Steve Hill
> 
> Some others - Mick Sellars (cadet ), Paul Mason ( 3rd mate)


What year are we talking about Stu? as I recall a Mike Sellars (a Geordie) who was Master in Mobil in the 70s & 80s. He would be around 75 now.


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## George Bis

andylo said:


> Hello Stewart J., yes we sailed together on Sugar Carrier (my last trip with the Company) and I remember your birdwatching exploits! In fact, you encouraged me to get interested and I later joined the RNBWS when I moved to NERC!
> I seem to remember you climbing up one of the deck cranes to get closer to Lanner Falcon when we were anchored in the Gulf somewhere!
> I was at sea with NERC until 1994 then ashore with them until 2008 and finally shore jobs with Svitzer Towage and Sealion. Took early retirement last year!


Was that the voyage when the Sugar Carrier had a cargo of Leyland Busses from the Tyne to the Gulf?


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## andylo

George Bis said:


> Was that the voyage when the Sugar Carrier had a cargo of Leyland Busses from the Tyne to the Gulf?


Hi George, yes, that was the trip! Loaded 19 Leyland double deckers at Tyne Dock for Basrah. Managed to drop one onto the quay when ships crane was 'two-blocked' and runner parted - oops!!


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## George Bis

andylo said:


> Hi George, yes, that was the trip! Loaded 19 Leyland double deckers at Tyne Dock for Basrah. Managed to drop one onto the quay when ships crane was 'two-blocked' and runner parted - oops!!


, 
And a good time was had by all! I first heard about this cargo about a year earlier (1976) when in the Gulf for, if I remember right Cast Shipping.
We had an Egyptian Supercargo, a Captain Husain Barrady who kept telling us that if we obtained good discharge rates(we did) the bus cargo was in the wings. Nice that it wasn't just "hot air"
The Supercargo was certainly worth his wait in gold. He spoke six languages, married to a Swiss lady and had vast powers in moving the Sugar Trader to the top of the list!


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## cassas

Searched through all of these threads looking for someone I sailed with on Sugar Line. No chance I was Chief Steward on Sugar Line From 1956 t0 1960 when it was only the Crystal boats. IE before the amalgamation with Silvertown services I am 82 now and remember the Crystal boats with great fondness especially the Diamond that I took out new from Hawthorn Leslies Yard at Hebburn If there is anybody still alive from these I would love to here from them Ron Wilson


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## Stu01234

Ian Lawson said:


> What year are we talking about Stu? as I recall a Mike Sellars (a Geordie) who was Master in Mobil in the 70s & 80s. He would be around 75 now.


Hello Ian. The Mick Sellars that I knew was a cadet at the same time as me in about 1975-76, similar age to me, so he would be about 60 now.


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## DURANGO

I sailed with captain Lancaster in the Crystal Gem , also with captain Pirie in the Sugar Refiner in 1960 I was SOS at the time , I was AB in the Gem , if memory serves was captain Lancaster quite a big man I found him to be a good captain myself ,best regards to all hands Dave


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## squashman

I sailed on the Transporter and Trader in 74 the producer 75, the Importer and again the Transporter in 76, the Carrier in 77-78, and the Producer again 77-78. I much preferred the Producer although the last trip on the Importer was good.


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## squashman

Anyone remember Frank Gillard Purser


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## George Bis

I sailed with Frank Gillard on the Importer in Jan 1974.I think that he was coming back to sea after heart trouble. His wife was there but I can't remember if she sailed with us. Also was on the Carrier, Trader and Producer. I was on the Producer when she was sold to the Greeks and that was the end of sea going for me!


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## squashman

Frank was my father-in-law, I only sailed with him once


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## andylo

Hi squashman, I too sailed with Frank - I was first trip cadet on the Importer in April 1974 (if I remember correctly!) I may have sailed with you on Sugar Transporter in 1976 (I think). Andy


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## squashman

That is quite possible do you re call who the capt. was


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## andylo

Hi Squashman, I sailed with George Pirie and Brian Evans on Importer, Drew Lunn on Transporter, Peter Sutcliffe on Trader, Neil 'Lanc the Tank' on Transporter, Colin Davies on Producer and Bobbie Pitts and Jeffrey Lever between April 1974 and February 1978. Cheers, Andy


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## George Bis

Drew Lunn is the only one of the Masters I didn't sail with.
The only other one I sailed with was "El Griff" Griffiths. He certainly was someone to remember.


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## squashman

Hi Clive 
What years were you on the Producer, Importer and Carrier. I was on these as Ch. Cook and catering Officer.


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## andylo

Hi all, just found this link to Captain George Pirie! 
http://toonloon.bizland.com/ppap/?page_id=2951


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## George Bis

Great to see the link for George Pirie. I sailed with him twice and he certainly knew his business.
Anyone know where he got to after Sugar Line finished?


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## andylo

Hi all, does anyone recognise any of the attached people please? Found a load of old photos and memory struggling a bit! 
3 whilst on board SUGAR CARRIER 1977-1978 and one from SUGAR PRODUCER 1976 - I recognise Glenn Harvey!! Cheers, Andy


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## NIGEL C

Hi Andy The engineer in the duty mess with the hat on I think is Paul somebody, was 4/eng when I sailed with him.Maybe somebody else can come up with his surname.


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## andylo

NIGEL C said:


> Hi Andy The engineer in the duty mess with the hat on I think is Paul somebody, was 4/eng when I sailed with him.Maybe somebody else can come up with his surname.


Hello Nigel, thanks, yes, Paul XXX certainly rings a bell with me! I think I also sailed with him on SUGAR IMPORTER a couple of year previously.
Cheers, Andy


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## George Bis

Paul Mills? Can't say I recognise any of them after so long. I should know Glenn Harvey but am afraid I don't.!


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## andylo

Hello George, Paul Mills, yes I'm sure you're correct. I sailed with him on SUGAR IMPORTER and then on CARRIER on my last trip with the company.
If I remember correctly, Glenn Harvey was working in the office when I joined Sugar Line and he signed me on IMPORTER in Silvertown! I think his wife was about to give birth and the company found him a short term post as, presumably he was local to the offices in Plaistow? I then sailed with him when he was 3rd Mate before I went back to Fleetwood College for Phase III.
I wish I'd made a note of the crews on board at the time!!
Thanks, Andy


----------



## George Bis

You are right about Glynn Harvey but I remember hearing that he got his 2m Certificate not long before Sugar Line folded. Bit like me!
Funny how I can remember all this but not the faces!


----------



## Stu01234

andylo said:


> Hello George, Paul Mills, yes I'm sure you're correct. I sailed with him on SUGAR IMPORTER and then on CARRIER on my last trip with the company.
> If I remember correctly, Glenn Harvey was working in the office when I joined Sugar Line and he signed me on IMPORTER in Silvertown! I think his wife was about to give birth and the company found him a short term post as, presumably he was local to the offices in Plaistow? I then sailed with him when he was 3rd Mate before I went back to Fleetwood College for Phase III.
> I wish I'd made a note of the crews on board at the time!!
> Thanks, Andy


I wish I could help with the photos, but alas not. I think I recognise the engineer, and the hat, but I wouldn't have got his name. 

It is interesting to see the photos anyway. 

Also the mention of Fleetwood nautical college. I lived a few miles away in Thornton at the time, but stayed in digs as part of the phases, before they built the onsite accommodation. First phase, The Del Rita, Pleasant Street, Blackpool, then a place in Cleveleys, both not there anymore. 

Trying to remember some college tutors. Knocker Finch immediately comes to mind. Good bloke, I think he passed away a few years ago.


----------



## andylo

Good day to you! Well, this is really weird...! Now I'm retired (best job I've ever had!!) I'm writing down some of my seagoing memories since the 1970's seems such a long time ago now! I was today jotting a few notes down about my time at Fleetwood where I studied both Second Mates and Mates! The 'Del Ritz' has loads of memories and I stayed there for both college phases for 2nd Mates. What a dump it was although we had some brilliant times there in spite of the place! Cold, damp and the food was appalling! I remember we got a coach to take us/return us to/from college every day, although during Phase III I had a mate (Texaco cadet!) who had a 'suped-up' Mini Cooper which we used most days although it nearly always needed to be bump started as he could afford a new battery/alternator!
If I remember correctly a Mr Rowlie was the college warden there and I had to call him early one morning since I was stranded in Burnley without the bus fare to get back to Blackpool! A long story involving a local lass and a walk up Pendle Hill at Halloween which ended in A&E in Burnley - I never went out with her again!
Yes, Knocker Finch was a real character. Other lecturers I remember were; Captain Lahiri, Captain (Spiny) Norman, Mr Rivers-Bland, Mr Hunt and or weekly trip to Cleveleys College as we had to do a lesson which I guess was the equivalent of General Studies today - we tried to learn the guitar. A complete waste of time! 
Did you do your time with Sugar Line? I'm trying to remember cadets names without much success!
Cheers, Andy


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## George Bis

Hi Andy,
Good luck with the seagoing memories. I did mine a couple of years ago and it certainly brought back memories. When I went ashore I felt that I should look forward, not backwards and it is only now that I am retired, with the aid of the internet that I can delve into the past. I found it fascinating what happened to my old ships after they were sold. For example the Sugar Importer became the Lucky Importer of Panama. Owners Inter Bulk Inc. At least they only had to change "Sugar" to "Lucky"
I have never managed to get much interest in this from my family. Perhaps we should start a "Writers Club " thread on S.N. It might work quite well as many of the members can really write !


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## andylo

Hi George, thanks for response. Yes, I think you get to an age when you start looking back over what has happened in your earlier life! I feel that we were really lucky to have been at sea in what was the final days of the 'old' more 'traditional' seagoing industry! I stayed at sea until the mid-1990's and was lucky enough to have a go at being in command of a vessel before coming ashore and remaining in shipping for the whole of my working life.
My final role involved visiting ships and working with seafarers on board hence I still got a 'buzz' from being involved but was able to return to my family after a short time so I fell got the both of both worlds!
My jottings are primarily for my own enjoyment and it's great to try to remember and, in particular, the characters I was fortunate to sail with.
Happy days. Andy


----------



## Stu01234

andylo said:


> Good day to you! Well, this is really weird...! Now I'm retired (best job I've ever had!!) I'm writing down some of my seagoing memories since the 1970's seems such a long time ago now! I was today jotting a few notes down about my time at Fleetwood where I studied both Second Mates and Mates! The 'Del Ritz' has loads of memories and I stayed there for both college phases for 2nd Mates. What a dump it was although we had some brilliant times there in spite of the place! Cold, damp and the food was appalling! I remember we got a coach to take us/return us to/from college every day, although during Phase III I had a mate (Texaco cadet!) who had a 'suped-up' Mini Cooper which we used most days although it nearly always needed to be bump started as he could afford a new battery/alternator!
> If I remember correctly a Mr Rowlie was the college warden there and I had to call him early one morning since I was stranded in Burnley without the bus fare to get back to Blackpool! A long story involving a local lass and a walk up Pendle Hill at Halloween which ended in A&E in Burnley - I never went out with her again!
> Yes, Knocker Finch was a real character. Other lecturers I remember were; Captain Lahiri, Captain (Spiny) Norman, Mr Rivers-Bland, Mr Hunt and or weekly trip to Cleveleys College as we had to do a lesson which I guess was the equivalent of General Studies today - we tried to learn the guitar. A complete waste of time!
> Did you do your time with Sugar Line? I'm trying to remember cadets names without much success!
> Cheers, Andy



Its funny how some memories come back easy, but many others forgotten. Those names you mentioned all familiar, but I can't put a face to some. I can't think what Rivers Bland looked like. I can picture Hunt a bit though. Another one we used to have for Navigation, I can picture him a bit, but no name yet. 

Del Rita - Yes a bit of a dump, but some decent memories as well. The sneaking out after lights out. Getting caught. The lectures on getting caught. The girls from the Carlton, the nightclubs, Trader Jacks. Also Brian London's club. 

The Cleveleys phase, 1977, the floods, having to move out for a while. 

Some college things. The Lancastrian. Knott End sailing. Some lake near the college for sailing, and finding a stash of porn photos dumped by the lake. Liverpool for the exams. High rise Seamans mission near Pier Head at Liverpool. 

I ended my time with Tate and Lyle in 1979. Sailed for a while as 3rd mate after cadet, then went with Manchester Liners for a year, then finished completely in 1980.


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## George Bis

andylo said:


> Good day to you! Well, this is really weird...! Now I'm retired (best job I've ever had!!) I'm writing down some of my seagoing memories since the 1970's seems such a long time ago now! I was today jotting a few notes down about my time at Fleetwood where I studied both Second Mates and Mates! The 'Del Ritz' has loads of memories and I stayed there for both college phases for 2nd Mates. What a dump it was although we had some brilliant times there in spite of the place! Cold, damp and the food was appalling! I remember we got a coach to take us/return us to/from college every day, although during Phase III I had a mate (Texaco cadet!) who had a 'suped-up' Mini Cooper which we used most days although it nearly always needed to be bump started as he could afford a new battery/alternator!
> If I remember correctly a Mr Rowlie was the college warden there and I had to call him early one morning since I was stranded in Burnley without the bus fare to get back to Blackpool! A long story involving a local lass and a walk up Pendle Hill at Halloween which ended in A&E in Burnley - I never went out with her again!
> Yes, Knocker Finch was a real character. Other lecturers I remember were; Captain Lahiri, Captain (Spiny) Norman, Mr Rivers-Bland, Mr Hunt and or weekly trip to Cleveleys College as we had to do a lesson which I guess was the equivalent of General Studies today - we tried to learn the guitar. A complete waste of time!
> Did you do your time with Sugar Line? I'm trying to remember cadets names without much success!
> Cheers, Andy


I was at Fleetwood Collage in 1975 for about 6/8 weeks doing a resit for Master H.T.
My strongest memory was when the Master F.G. & H.T. classes were taken out to sea on a training vessel to "swing the ship" and adjust compasses.
Sadly the violent rolling of this former fishing boat had a sad effect on the class and about two third of us were sea sick!


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## andylo

George Bis said:


> I was at Fleetwood Collage in 1975 for about 6/8 weeks doing a resit for Master H.T.
> My strongest memory was when the Master F.G. & H.T. classes were taken out to sea on a training vessel to "swing the ship" and adjust compasses.
> Sadly the violent rolling of this former fishing boat had a sad effect on the class and about two third of us were sea sick!


Hello George, judging by your description I think the vessel may well have been the LANCASTRIAN!
Unless you had a cast iron constitution (or were a serving fisherman!) this vessel had the same effect on just about everyone! We did a 'navigation exercise' to Piel Island off Barrow and we were all sick as dogs whilst in transit to/from the estuary. Stood me in good stead when I joined NERC after leaving Sugar Line - my next vessel after SUGAR CARRIER was RRS JOHN MURRAY - a converted stern trawler at 230GRT!


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## George Bis

andylo said:


> Hello George, judging by your description I think the vessel may well have been the LANCASTRIAN!
> Unless you had a cast iron constitution (or were a serving fisherman!) this vessel had the same effect on just about everyone! We did a 'navigation exercise' to Piel Island off Barrow and we were all sick as dogs whilst in transit to/from the estuary. Stood me in good stead when I joined NERC after leaving Sugar Line - my next vessel after SUGAR CARRIER was RRS JOHN MURRAY - a converted stern trawler at 230GRT!


Lancastrian does ring a bell.
Glad that it wasn't just us that suffered but for a Combined Masters Class it took some living down!
Strangely before I went to sea I did a lot of small boat sailing on the Gareloch/Clyde and never even thought of being sick.


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## kelvan hassan

Was shanghaied on suger Importer 6month cir***navigation in 1971 even sailed through typhoon Trix on the way to Korea, a voyage from hell,if there's anyone reading this who was on that trip I'd love to have a chat,one of my ship mates was a guy called George Bett from Middlesbrough, God we had some fun,,,R888302,Kel,


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## kelvan hassan

Would just like to add a few memories of the voyage from hell on the Sugar Importer, shanghaied from the pool in Middlesbrough,we worked by in South Shields for a week then sailed to Zeebrugge for stores and Bunker's,then off we went thinking our trip was her regular run to Jamaica salt river n Savana lemar,,think that's how it's spelled,,the 1st Port of call was Quebec for a cargo of Asbestos,, yep Asbestos in Hessian cloth sacks,then there was a dock strike for 4 weeks,sad thing was us young'ns couldn't get a beer ashore you had to be 21 to have a drink ,then topped up cargo in Halifax then Port Hawksberry Nova Scotia Scotia,that's when it all went down hill, the 3rd mate stabbed an AB in Halifax then another AB lost a hand when a boom crushed it in a saddle and still we didn't know where we where sailing to,it was agonizing not nowing,so after a jolly through the Panama canal we ended up in the middle of the Pacific and at one point we broke down and drifted for a day and we still weren't told where were going, all in all we ended up in Korea, Pusan then Inchon,so off we go again to Australia Bunderberg then M'cay,now the big problem started,crew men where getting filled in in there cabins all about over time on deck,eventually they ended up in the owners cabin for the rest of the voyage,so the plot thickens having got Stores and bunkers in Cape town we all thought we had got over the I'll fated voyage but that wasn't to be,we run out of food and drinks 2days before docking in Silver town,,when we finally docked at 5.30am we couldn't get off that ship quick enough, we all turned out to help tie up so we got a Minni bus to the local dockside pub,,so by now you can imagine what state of mind the crew where in,,now the plot thickens,, the chief steward organised a collection of food to pick from Tate and Lyle canteen to make breakfast for owners and other guests, so !!!as we were walking down the jetty full of the joys of paying off the lad in front of me tripped on a plank his bread tray immediately ended up on the jetty floor so as all ship mates do we followed his lead then one after another we ditched the whole lot on the jetty,it was a wonderful feeling seeing all that grub ditched,,, you should of seen the faces on the cook,chief Stewart n 2nd steward,,,but alas it back fireer and we all got logged 2days in the pay off queue,I still to this day good thinking of all that grub on the jetty,, I'd love to hear from anyone that was on Sugar Importers voyage from hell,thanks for reading this ship mates,


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## George Bis

Sounds a desperate voyage. I was on her two years later which was interesting but not that bad. 
She Magregor hatches were the strangest/most dangerous I ever met and I was just thankful no one fell down a hold.
Can you remember who the Captain was?


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## jrob7021

just to introduce myself,name is Jim Robertson retired in 2000 after 44 years at sea enjoying every second of it.When I read some of the threads all the memories keep flooding back.My sea career started in 1956 first sailing on the DM Taranaki, Coptic and a few other motor ships in the Shaw Savill fleet until 1966 when Joined
Sugar Line where I had many happy memories and sailed with some great characters.In my twelve years with them I sailed on nearly all their ships starting off on the Sugar Cube and ending up on the newer ones. A lot of the old ships were workhouses for us engineers but they were happy ships.Left them just before all the fleet were sold and joined Everards for the rest of my seagoing.
I would like to send my regards to any Sugar Line survivors who I used to know


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## keith humphreys

Hi Jim
I did my first trip to sea on Sugar Exporter
The Ch/eng was Vincent guibarra thin thats the correct spelling no doubt someone will correct me.
I think we ended up doing 6on 6 off to cope with all the breakdows glad it was only Trinidad and back, 10 years after I had never sailed on a ship that had as many breakdowns ,they say the first trip is make or break experience
Regards Keith.


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## andylo

jrob7021 said:


> just to introduce myself,name is Jim Robertson retired in 2000 after 44 years at sea enjoying every second of it.When I read some of the threads all the memories keep flooding back.My sea career started in 1956 first sailing on the DM Taranaki, Coptic and a few other motor ships in the Shaw Savill fleet until 1966 when Joined
> Sugar Line where I had many happy memories and sailed with some great characters.In my twelve years with them I sailed on nearly all their ships starting off on the Sugar Cube and ending up on the newer ones. A lot of the old ships were workhouses for us engineers but they were happy ships.Left them just before all the fleet were sold and joined Everards for the rest of my seagoing.
> I would like to send my regards to any Sugar Line survivors who I used to know


Hello Jim, I think we may have sailed together at some point! Did my time with Sugar Line between 1974 and 1978 and left them after doing a spell as 2nd Mate on Sugar Carrier which was then about 3 or 4 years old!
I joined as uncert. 3rd Mate having just done second mates and was promoted to 2nd Mate when Ted Houghton paid off sick in Taiwan! As I hadn't got my actual ticket, Sugar Line applied to the then Department of Transport who gave me a dispensation!
Did 10 months on the ship and had a ball! However, the writing was on the wall as far as sugar cargoes went and the Company was trading to a lot of Persian Gulf ports which wasn't for me! 
Cheers, Andy


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## George Bis

Hi Jim, just wondered if you were a 2/E and lived in Chester? If so I was 3/M on the Sugar Trader with you.
George Bisacre


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## Scottsnostalgia

Remember all these names (Old Men). Sailed on Sugar Importer, Producer, Crystal, Transporter, Refiner, Cartier and Trader as Junior through to 2nd Engineer in 70’s. Great times and many memories!


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## Scottsnostalgia

Hi Keith. Think we sailed together a couple times. Sugar Importer or Refiner. I was 3rd Eng at time? I recall this 2nd Eng. Not popular as I recall?


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## George Bis

Scottsnostalgia said:


> Remember all these names (Old Men). Sailed on Sugar Importer, Producer, Crystal, Transporter, Refiner, Cartier and Trader as Junior through to 2nd Engineer in 70’s. Great times and many memories!


That is a fine list of ships! Apart from the Transporter & Refiner I was on all of them.


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## captainpt

I joined Sugar Line in 1972, Sugar Exporter at Dagenham - Brian Evans was Captain. I have just retired having worked on the Great Lakes / St Lawrence Seaway since 1979, lastly for Algoma Central. I was on the Exporter, Refiner, Transporter, Diamond, Carrier. Training was at Greenhithe and Tower Hill, both gone now as well.


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## George Bis

captainpt said:


> I joined Sugar Line in 1972, Sugar Exporter at Dagenham - Brian Evans was Captain. I have just retired having worked on the Great Lakes / St Lawrence Seaway since 1979, lastly for Algoma Central. I was on the Exporter, Refiner, Transporter, Diamond, Carrier. Training was at Greenhithe and Tower Hill, both gone now as well.


I was at Sugar Line about the same time as you but I don't think our paths ever crossed. Brian Evans I sailed with on the Sugar Importer in 1974, an interesting voyage. I met him again five years later when he was paying off the Producer and I was joining. He greeted me like a lost relative which was nice!
When you were on the Diamond was Captain Griffiths in command I sailed with him on the Importer and it was an experience!
Glad you did well on the Great Lakes.
I looked into that in 1979 but got no bites!


----------



## Paul Braxton

George. Cap'n Griffiths was on "Crystal Diamond" in '73 when I was R/O on there. Don't remember much about him now. Was he a bit of a character? It was quite a hard-case ship, the Diamond. We had lots of good times on there, loading sugar in Jamaicy.


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## George Bis

Paul Braxton said:


> George. Cap'n Griffiths was on "Crystal Diamond" in '73 when I was R/O on there. Don't remember much about him now. Was he a bit of a character? It was quite a hard-case ship, the Diamond. We had lots of good times on there, loading sugar in Jamaicy.


Griffiths was said to have practiced shooting by firing his air rifle from the wing of the Diamonds bridge at the bell on the forecastle He must have been a reasonable shot as bullet holes were found by the following owners.
I sailed with him on the Importer in Sept.1973, also Hugh Byrne , a jovial Irish man who was C/O on the Diamond


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## Paul Braxton

Sounds like a good fun to do, shooting at a bell like that.

I remember Hughie Byrne. He was a great bloke. Told me all about Finn somebody or other, who he swore was a real leprechaun. He and I used to hang out in the 3/O's cabin, listening to his Cat Stevens LP's on his stereo and telling stories. 3/O was a great guy, Charlie, somebody. If you're out there, Charlie, I've got some good photos of you and Hughie in your old cabin on the Diamond.


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## Ron Stringer

Some airgun that could punch holes in a fo'c'sle bell when fired from point-blank range, let alone from a bridge wing. A man armed with a weapon like that should be approached with extreme caution.


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## George Bis

Ron Stringer said:


> Some airgun that could punch holes in a fo'c'sle bell when fired from point-blank range, let alone from a bridge wing. A man armed with a weapon like that should be approached with extreme caution.


A strange tale. However if you go to p4 Shipping Nostalgia thread Crystal Diamond/Vanda rochardnm 99 post gives more details of the damaged bell.
Apparently the NUS got involved in this matter and Capt.Griffiths was told to "leave your gun at home"


----------



## captainpt

George Bis said:


> I was at Sugar Line about the same time as you but I don't think our paths ever crossed. Brian Evans I sailed with on the Sugar Importer in 1974, an interesting voyage. I met him again five years later when he was paying off the Producer and I was joining. He greeted me like a lost relative which was nice!
> When you were on the Diamond was Captain Griffiths in command I sailed with him on the Importer and it was an experience!
> Glad you did well on the Great Lakes.
> I looked into that in 1979 but got no bites!


On the Exporter it was Brian Evans and Chris Davies as Captain, the Refiner was Leaver, Transporter was Drew Lunn, Carrier was Leaver again, and again on the Refiner. Also with Patrickson, and Thompson.

If memory serves one had a raft of medals from naval service - Leaver maybe. Anyway, once in a while he'd wear the medals to a supper service. The Chief Steward had been a commando during WW2 and had a much larger collection - well earned no doubt. He'd peek out at supper and see if the Captain had his on, at which point he'd go and get his!

I was lucky enough that when I moved to Canada the next door neighbours son was a 1st mate with a company (Misener) and they were looking for officers, since I was married to a family friend etc...


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## Court Shipper

clive jones said:


> Joined Sugar Line from Gravesend Sea School.
> 
> Importer, Refiner, Crystal, Producer, Trader, Carrier.
> 
> Remember some great times + good runs.
> 
> Would be interested to track down any other crew members.


Hi Clive,
Did you ever sail with my father Alan Keam, who was with sugar Line during the 70s as Ch Eng.?
Tony K


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## Court Shipper

Stewart J. said:


> Good evening all, haven't checked out this site since retiring over 2 years ago and was pleasantly surprised to see this thread.
> 
> I joined Sugar Line in South Shields as a lowly Junior engineer aged 21 in August 1970 joining MV Crystal Sapphire in South Shields, a baptism by fire as I recall. Offered a contact after some months and stayed till September 1979 when I was made redundant on the sale of one of their last vessels. (We were flown home from Bilbao)
> 
> Vessels served on, Crystal Sapphire, Sugar Importer, Crystal Diamond, Sugar Refiner, Sugar Transporter, Sugar Carrier, Sugar Exporter, Sugar Crystal and Sugar Trader.
> 
> A long time ago.


Hi Stewart,
Can you remember ever coming across my father , Alan Keam, who sailed with Sugar Line as Ch.Eng. during the 70s?
tonyK


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## Kelbel

joebuckham said:


> hi George I left sugar line 1972. the mud pilot was certainly ron butcher and the pilot was (allowing for42 years of brain cell fatigue)the choice pilot, stafford miller (Thumb)


Hi I’m trying to find out information about Ron Butcher who was a family member but lost contact. I’m not sure if he is still around but would love to hear from anyone that may have known him?


----------



## George Bis

Kelbel said:


> Hi I’m trying to find out information about Ron Butcher who was a family member but lost contact. I’m not sure if he is still around but would love to hear from anyone that may have known him?





Kelbel said:


> Hi I’m trying to find out information about Ron Butcher who was a family member but lost contact. I’m not sure if he is still around but would love to hear from anyone that may have known him?


If you want to see a very quick glimpse of him go to YouTube, then watch PLA Thames Pilots at work. The Pilot sais "steady as she goes,Ron" to him on the wheel.
Can't say that I really knew him. He was quite formal, always addressed the Officers as "Sir"


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## Kelbel

George Bis said:


> If you want to see a very quick glimpse of him go to YouTube, then watch PLA Thames Pilots at work. The Pilot sais "steady as she goes,Ron" to him on the wheel.
> Can't say that I really knew him. He was quite formal, always addressed the Officers as "Sir"


Thank you so much for replying so quickly. I did watch the clip on YouTube. Didn’t know if you or anyone else may know what happened to him or if there would be any of his family members on here to find out about him after 1960 which is when contact was lost. Again thank you so much for replying


----------



## George Bis

Kelbel said:


> Thank you so much for replying so quickly. I did watch the clip on YouTube. Didn’t know if you or anyone else may know what happened to him or if there would be any of his family members on here to find out about him after 1960 which is when contact was lost. Again thank you so much for replying


Sugar Line


Kelbel said:


> Thank you so much for replying so quickly. I did watch the clip on YouTube. Didn’t know if you or anyone else may know what happened to him or if there would be any of his family members on here to find out about him after 1960 which is when contact was lost. Again thank you so much for replying


The last time I was at Silvertown was in 1977 on the Sugar Carrier and Sugar Line finished at the end of 1979 The only thing I can suggest is to contact the PLA or Trinity House and see if you can find any records.
In my time he always seemed to work with Choice Pilot, Captain Richardson.
I remember Captain Richardson telling the Old Man "Ron is never happier than having a whisky in the Old Mans's cabin after docking. I was 3rd.Mate on these voyages and in 1975 I was on the Sugar Trader when she discharged the largest ever cargo of sugar to the UK There was a picture of her in The Guardian


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## Kelbel

Thank you so much for your help and the information. I’m sure it will help me. Take care.


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## Chewey

derek dee said:


> sailed on the producer early 70 ts had a month loading in that lagoon at savana la mer then to salt river a great trip great crowd for some reason the bar was closed but no problem there is plenty of green stuff growing in jamacia [blood clat man] great times we were lucky to say the least


I sailed on The Sugar Producer , when it was named Cape Avanti Due ( Liberian flag), it was owned by London Greeks associated with NJ Goulandris. This was in 1984 . It was scrapped in 87.


----------



## Fred Bennett

andylo said:


> Hi Squashman, I sailed with George Pirie and Brian Evans on Importer, Drew Lunn on Transporter, Peter Sutcliffe on Trader, Neil 'Lanc the Tank' on Transporter, Colin Davies on Producer and Bobbie Pitts and Jeffrey Lever between April 1974 and February 1978. Cheers, Andy


Hi Andylo, Peter Sutcliffe was my grandfather, unfortunately he passed in 2018. Is it possible you remember anything about him?


----------



## George Bis

Fred Bennett said:


> Hi Andylo, Peter Sutcliffe was my grandfather, unfortunately he passed in 2018. Is it possible you remember anything about him?


If he was Capt.Peter Sutcliffe I sailed with him twice as 3rd.Mate on the Sugar Trader. 
A top man and sorry to hear he is gone although he must have been a good age.


----------



## biggsie

Tim Davies said:


> Chris Davies was my dad and me and my sister did a voyage from Silvertown to Trinidad in the summer of that year, I remember the second mates name being Ken Crow! I Remeber when we got to Trinidad we sailed up a river and docked by some old big wharehouse any idea which river this would have been?


Hi Tim, I am sure I sailed with your Dad. My name is Les Biggs and I was the Chief Steward/Catering Officer. Please pass on my regards and ask if he remembers me.


----------



## biggsie

biggsie said:


> Hi Tim, I am sure I sailed with your Dad. My name is Les Biggs and I was the Chief Steward/Catering Officer. Please pass on my regards and ask if he remembers me.


I have just seen the message that Peter Sutcliffe died in 2018. So sad, he was a great friend, We shared many a whisky and gin and tonics together. I last saw Peter in 1985 when he was living in Orpington and he was working at Thurrock I think something to do with ships.


----------



## biggsie

George Bis said:


> Sounds like Jef Leaver. Sailed with him twice (Crystal & Carrier) and got on o.k. though he had his ways. Far as I know he was never on the "Producer" What was the name of the Catering Super.?


The catering supervisor was I think Bob Bishop


----------



## biggsie

Stewart J. said:


> Had forgotten all about this thread, nice to see a few names I recognise (and some I'd forgotten and nice to be reminded of) what a long time ago it all seems and of course is. I remained at sea till retiring in 2012 (redundancy aged 62) After Sugar Line I went into the oil industry, dive boats, seismic survey. supply as Chief Engineer, then into the Caspian for three years with BUE. From there Serco Denholm based on the Clyde for the last 12 years, most enjoyable and almost day working, small vessels 8 - 5pm working usually on shore power overnight. Great way to end a career. My name for those who may remember is Stewart Hingston, (a Geordie) a keen birdwatcher so I was always wandering around the decks when weather allowed binoculars around my neck and a camera with telephoto lense which may help some remember me.


I remember you Stewart, sailed a few times together, I'm Les Biggs Catering Officer, I played guitar.


----------



## andylo

Fred Bennett said:


> Hi Andylo, Peter Sutcliffe was my grandfather, unfortunately he passed in 2018. Is it possible you remember anything about him?


Hi Fred, just stumbled back onto this thread after a couple of years! Sorry for slow reply. Yes, Peter was a real gentleman and a great shipmaster. I sailed with him on the Sugar Trader which was (I think) her first voyage in about 1977 on my final trip as cadet. I joined in Le Havre and we then went to Poland to load coal and Antwerp to load steel for Argentina.
One really nice memory of Peter is him coming into the saloon for lunch and whispering to us caders 'to avoid the jam ropy-poly'; he'd completed the Masters Inspection that morning and when he'd inspected the galley, he'd noted the 2nd Cook retrieving the tin containing the pudding from under the galley range where it had ended up after a heavy roll! He was just removing the bits of debris from the sticky jam when spotted by Peter! Happy days....!


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## George Bis

andylo said:


> Hi Fred, just stumbled back onto this thread after a couple of years! Sorry for slow reply. Yes, Peter was a real gentleman and a great shipmaster. I sailed with him on the Sugar Trader which was (I think) her first voyage in about 1977 on my final trip as cadet. I joined in Le Havre and we then went to Poland to load coal and Antwerp to load steel for Argentina.
> One really nice memory of Peter is him coming into the saloon for lunch and whispering to us caders 'to avoid the jam ropy-poly'; he'd completed the Masters Inspection that morning and when he'd inspected the galley, he'd noted the 2nd Cook retrieving the tin containing the pudding from under the galley range where it had ended up after a heavy roll! He was just removing the bits of debris from the sticky jam when spotted by Peter! Happy days....!


He was a Top Man
The last time I met him was at Heathrow in 1979 when I was part of a crew going to Oslo’s to join the Sugar Producer He must have been on his way to join another ship and I remember him standing with his back to a wall as we qued up to shake hands with him
Happy Days


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## andylo

Nice one George, couldn't agree more. A really lovely guy. Checked my Discharge Book earlier and it was 1974! Flippin 'eck, 48 years ago! Happy New Year to you, Andy


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## andylo

biggsie said:


> I remember you Stewart, sailed a few times together, I'm Les Biggs Catering Officer, I played guitar.


Hello Les or should I say Biggsie?! Think we sailed together on the 'Carrier in 1977? Went to the Gulf and then Durban and ended up in Kaoishung, Taiwan? I was 3rd the 2nd Mate. I think I have a photo of you with the Leccy, Ken Eames? Blimey, nearly 50 years ago now...Will try to dig the photo out. Happy New Year, Andy.


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## George Bis

andylo said:


> Hello Les or should I say Biggsie?! Think we sailed together on the 'Carrier in 1977? Went to the Gulf and then Durban and ended up in Kaoishung, Taiwan? I was 3rd the 2nd Mate. I think I have a photo of you with the Leccy, Ken Eames? Blimey, nearly 50 years ago now...Will try to dig the photo out. Happy New Year, Andy.


Andy, I paid off the Sugar Imporer in April 1974. Were you joining her then?


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## andylo

George Bis said:


> Andy, I paid off the Sugar Imporer in April 1974. Were you joining her then?


Hi George, yes, first trip! Joined her in Silvertown. Had you been sailing as 3rd Mate? If so, I recall that Dave Sherwin relieved you! He was an Uncert. 3/O and I think he packed in seafaring and became a firefighter not long afterwards!
If I remember correctly, Jonnie Allen was Mate, Steve Dixon 2nd Mate and of course, George Pirie as Master. Willie Graham was the other Cadet! First trip details stick in the mind!!


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## George Bis

andylo said:


> Hi George, yes, first trip! Joined her in Silvertown. Had you been sailing as 3rd Mate? If so, I recall that Dave Sherwin relieved you! He was an Uncert. 3/O and I think he packed in seafaring and became a firefighter not long afterwards!
> If I remember correctly, Jonnie Allen was Mate, Steve Dixon 2nd Mate and of course, George Pirie as Master. Willie Graham was the other Cadet! First trip details stick in the mind!!


Hi there,
Yes, I was 3/O with a Mates HT certificate, We had a 2/O from Newcastle whose name I forget, Hugh Byrne as Mate and Brian Evans Master. This was my second trip on her and we had Roger Shaw and Willie Graham as Cadets and they both did very well. 
Very interesting that you had George Pirie as Master. I sailed with him on the Producer and the Sugar Trader
The Importer was a good, sound ship but I never liked the design of the hatches
The second trip on the Importer was easier than the first with Captain Griffith, we went to Houston, loaded grain for Venezuela Then loaded sugar from Trinidad to London where you joined
You probably know this but if you go to YouTube and look up PLA Thames Pilots at work you can see the Producer being docked at Silvertown
Anyway, nice recalling the “good old days”


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## andylo

Hi George, many thanks for reply. Yes, George relieved Brian for 1 trip, not sure why? We went from London to Trinidad and back. Brian Evans relieved George and went from London out to Puerto Barrios in Guatamala for sugar back to London. PB was pretty 'basic' for loading in comparison to Point Lisas; 50Kg bags of sugar opened individually and 'bled' into the holds. We were alongside for 3 weeks or so!! Wonderful place!!!
As you say, the method of opening/closing the hatch lids was very scary with someone having to climb up on the coaming to secure a bull wire to lower the individual cover one at a time. A really hazardous task especially when the holds were empty! The 'single pull' design of the later vessels was so much safer.
After Guatamala, I thought I was going on leave, however, I transferred across to the Transporter in the Thames off Greenhithe as she sailed for Canada and then Oz so was away for another 4 months! However enjoyed every minute of both trips. Crikey, nearly 50 years ago!!


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## George Bis

andylo said:


> Hi George, many thanks for reply. Yes, George relieved Brian for 1 trip, not sure why? We went from London to Trinidad and back. Brian Evans relieved George and went from London out to Puerto Barrios in Guatamala for sugar back to London. PB was pretty 'basic' for loading in comparison to Point Lisas; 50Kg bags of sugar opened individually and 'bled' into the holds. We were alongside for 3 weeks or so!! Wonderful place!!!
> As you say, the method of opening/closing the hatch lids was very scary with someone having to climb up on the coaming to secure a bull wire to lower the individual cover one at a time. A really hazardous task especially when the holds were empty! The 'single pull' design of the later vessels was so much safer.
> After Guatamala, I thought I was going on leave, however, I transferred across to the Transporter in the Thames off Greenhithe as she sailed for Canada and then Oz so was away for another 4 months! However enjoyed every minute of both trips. Crikey, nearly 50 years ago!!


You relieved Roger Shaw as Cadet on the Importer when He left to do his 2M ticket I sailed with him twice after that, on the Carrier when he was 2M and I was 3M in 1975 Later in 1979 we sailed on the Producer, he a CO and me as 2M. Fortunately we got on well together!
Willie Graham I sailed with later on the Sugar Trader in 1976 and we did a run to the Persian Gulf where we did a really fast discharge. They were two good guys


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## Personnel Off. Rockys

George Bis said:


> We think it is Chris Davies. Sounds awful to be so vague as I sailed with both but I am poor on faces and it is 40 years!


The old was J.E. Leaver, Chris Davies was shaking the pilot's hand just after he boarded- he was Chief Officer then. Thin face, short dark hair. Was Cadet with both, 3/0 and 2/0 with Chris Davies. Total gentleman. Pilot was Stafford Miller. Blotted copy book- long story- Arthur Richardson took over from him. Ron was a permanant fixture!


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## Personnel Off. Rockys

George Bis said:


> We think it is Chris Davies. Sounds awful to be so vague as I sailed with both but I am poor on faces and it is 40 years!


JE Leaver absolutely.


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