# Indian ranks



## richies

Many years ago I read a book titled "Valiant Voyaging" the history of 
British India Steam Navigation during WW2 In the appendices in the back 
is a list of all crew who were injured or lost there lives during this time
Indian crew are listed by there rank lascar Bhandary topass etc 
A late friend of mine Capt Peter Cooke transcribed for me the meaning
of these ranks i.e "Seacunny" quartermaster "Tindal" Bosuns Mate 
All except one rank he had not heard of the rank of "Selwale" It states
in the appenices SS GOALPARA Sallihamod Selwale Can any old ex 
Stricks or Brocklebanks or for that matter anyone tell me the meaning 
or rank for this word


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## Keith Pengelly

could it possibly be a bad spelling of Tal walla who was an engine room greaser?


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## richies

*Indian Ranks*

I do not know Keith It clearly states SELWALE mind you though it is the only time in the appendices it is mentioned was it something peculiar
To BI ships Will have to do more research


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## M29

richies said:


> I do not know Keith It clearly states SELWALE mind you though it is the only time in the appendices it is mentioned was it something peculiar
> To BI ships Will have to do more research


Hi
Sailed with Bibby Line and all the Indian Crew Ranks are familiar, however this is a new one on me.
I have checked a number of dictionarys on line and whilst "Serang" "Tindal" etc can all be found, SELWALE gets no hits. Perhaps as you say it was a word used only on BI ships

Best wishes
Alan


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## Michael Taylor

I sailed with Indian crew from Apprentice to Mate with Ellermans and also never heard of that as a rank.....I suspect it was his actual name.


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## M29

Michael Taylor said:


> I sailed with Indian crew from Apprentice to Mate with Ellermans and also never heard of that as a rank.....I suspect it was his actual name.


Hi 
Tried some sites listing Indian First/Surnames and still no hits. Perhaps it was incorrectly recorded.

Alan


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## richies

*Indian Ranks*

Thanks for the effort Alan Well its got me miffed too It is certainly not 
his name as that is given as "Sallihamod"I suppose in those days it may have been different as S.Ferrao is listed as Chief Engineers Boy In other listings many seaman have 2 names I suppose there real name and
there religious name ?? ie Muklesur Rahman X "Umberali" Serang is that correct?
I will check with some of my asian friends see what they know


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## trotterdotpom

I sailed with a few Indian crews and, like everyone else, I've never heard of that rating. You could try this website: http://www.lascars.co.uk/index.html

There is an email address that you can send questions to.

John T


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## richies

*indian Ranks*

Thanks for that John I have already mailed Asif on the Lascar website
so will wait to see what they make of it Could it be a name peculiar
to a type of ship I cannot remember if the GOALPARA was cargo or 
passenger Anyway we will see


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## China hand

This is really what SN is all about isn't it? How many of us old Lascar crew guys are digging into our records and grey matter to find this?Great. Smashing thread.


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## M29

Keith Pengelly said:


> could it possibly be a bad spelling of Tal walla who was an engine room greaser?


Hi All
I would have thought a typical ship of the time would have several engine rooom greasers.

Is there a clue in the fact there is only one of this rank listed?

What was the title of the Guy(untouchable) who went around sweeping all day?

Best Wishes

Alan


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## trotterdotpom

I thought they were all untouchable but I think you mean the "topas".

John T


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## Scelerat

In Ellerman's he was the Jackie, but I'm not sure of the spelling. On the General arrangement his accomadation was referred to as that of the Topass, which simply means "hat-wearer", and was a word used to describe Indian Christians in the 18th Century..


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## richies

*Indian Ranks*

Yes thats correct Topass 

Tindal Bo,suns Mate
Bhandary Cook
Cassab Storekeeper/Lamptrimmer
Half Lascar Calassi
Serang Bosun
Seacunny Quartermaster
Butler Chief Steward


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## M29

Hi guys
spent a lot of time on line in Indian dictionaries, Lascar seafarers sites etc. but no joy. We appear to have hit a brick wall on this one, its a pity to give up. Lets hope some fresh posters come in with an answer

Best Wishes

Alan


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## China hand

A pure shot in the dark. Could it have been one of those "carried over" names, a second cassab or something? Corruption of sailmaker ~ sel walla ~ selwale? only a thought.


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## Pilot mac

Best Wishes

Alan

__________________
BEST BENT WIRE 


Hi Alan,
I thought it was BEST BENT 'BED' WIRE

regards
Dave


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## Pilot mac

I think 'Jackie' was a derogatory nick name for the poor old topaz. We used to have a deck topaz and also a catering topaz. Deck topaz used to sweep the decks to within an inch of there life whilst the catering topaz used to keep those 'costellos' sparkling.

regards
Dave


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## Derek Roger

Without the Topaz our ships would have been a mess The only class who would clean the showers and toilets . 
When it came to dealing with the sewage units and tanks it was normally the duty of apprentices ; nobody else would go near .

Cooks were mostly Christians otherwise we would not get our Roast Beef .

Regarding the question , I have never heard of it .
The lowest rank on Brocklebank ships in the Engine Room Department was that of " Coal Trimmer "


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## John Callon

Have to disagree with you there Derek regarding the Cooks being mainly Christian on Lascar crewed ships.I spent a long time with Bibby's on Indian Crewed ships with British Officers and with one or two minor exceptions nearly all of the galley staff were Muslims. Whether they were handling beef, lamb, mutton, ox tails, kidneys, pork, chicken, turkey or offal, it was all in a days work to them. In fact most of the Chief Cooks looked forward to the ration of 4 Bells Rum issued after spending a considerable time in the freezer rooms.
I was the Purser/Catering Officer.
Regards
John


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## Ron Stringer

When I was with Ellerman's, crews were provided either from Bombay (in which case the catering crew were Goanese Catholic Christians, with Portuguese-sounding names) or from Calcutta where the catering crew were largely Bengali Muslims. It was a matter of chance whether or not you got a Bombay or a Calcutta crew when it came to crew changes and I sailed with both. I don't recall ever sailing with a Hindu cook.

Personally I preferred the culinary skills and recipes of the Goanese cooks but I know that some others aboard had different views.


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## Scelerat

I too preferred the Goanese catering, although the Bombay crews usually tended to be very old and very slow.


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## richies

*Indian Ranks*

Well lads !! I am glad I posted this thread no one has an answer yet

but reading the replys we are getting a good insight into life aboard

and the culinary preferences of some members What about the 

Ali Shan down the high street any good???????


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## M29

Pilot mac said:


> Best Wishes
> 
> Alan
> 
> __________________
> BEST BENT WIRE
> 
> 
> Hi Alan,
> I thought it was BEST BENT 'BED' WIRE
> 
> regards
> Dave


Dave
No its BEST BENT WIRE. One of the most rythmic patterns you can send in morse.

However, I must agree it was good to have the opportunity to bend the odd bed wire when possible(Thumb)

Best Wishes

Alan


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## richies

*Indian Ranks*

Here is a copy of the original page from the book "Valiant Voyaging"
Just as a reminder Left hand page six names down


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## richies

*Indian Ranks*

Furthur to my last post .Having looked at a dictionary site named

dict.hinkhoj.com The translation of the word SELWALE from Hindi to 
English which does appear in there list is that the word is related to
SEWAGE in various forms Does that spark anything up ????

Sewage wallha???


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## M29

richies said:


> Furthur to my last post .Having looked at a dictionary site named
> 
> dict.hinkhoj.com The translation of the word SELWALE from Hindi to
> English which does appear in there list is that the word is related to
> SEWAGE in various forms Does that spark anything up ????
> 
> Sewage wallha???


Yes I found that as well but I thought the dictionary didn't have SELWALE so gave Sewage as the nearest match, perhaps I read it wrong. You could be onto something there, lets keep digging!!

Best Wishes
Alan


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## Alistair Macnab

*Selwale/Topas....*

Perhaps someone was trying to be posh and christened topass as selwale? I don't see a galley topass in the full crew list and there would have to be a native crew member to sweep and clean although there is a deck topass mentioned.


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## richies

*Indian Ranks*

Yes Alistair but that is not the complete crew list of the Goalpara
in other ships listed in the appendices there are ranks such as 

Scullion , Half General Servant ,On the SS Chilka 

there is a Saloon Topass If thats what you mean?


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## richies

*Indian Ranks*

Hi Alan Yes I will keep digging No reply from the Lascar Seamen web
site Sent mail to Asif but not heard anything last time website was updated was 2003 so maybe not "live" now But I have other leads to follow Will keep all posted of develpoments


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## duncs

Just guessing, but could 'selwale' be a Sri Lankan name/rating. It's just that it sounds like a Sri Lankan name to me. (Only a thought).


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## M29

duncs said:


> Just guessing, but could 'selwale' be a Sri Lankan name/rating. It's just that it sounds like a Sri Lankan name to me. (Only a thought).


Hi
Tried Sri Lankan dictionary without success. No luck with person names either. (Cloud)

Best Wishes

Alan


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## duncs

It was just a thought, Alan/Richies. Someone might still come up with an answer.
Rgds, Duncs


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## richies

Well Duncs I have not given up yet !!! Don,t suppose I will Must be an answer
I still have a few more leads but its just trying catch him !!


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## bugga divino

*Selwale*

Sel Wale = Sail Walla?
(A)


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## JKB

*Another mystery rank.*

Hello all:
A friend was talking to his taxi driver last night and came away with a photo of the driver's great-grandfather's discharge book. With the help of this thread I've been able to explain some of the terms but one remains a puzzle: Dyman (or possibly Wyman). The full progression goes like this:

Fireman
Oilman
Dyman (or Wyman)
3rd Tindal
Tindal
1st Tindal
F. Serang.

If anyone can shed any light I'd be most grateful.


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## JKB

It's been suggested to me that Dyman could be an abbreviation of Donkeyman, which makes sense based on the other ranks listed. I'm disappointed I didn't think of that myself!


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## marbles

Hi ...New here..Saw this thread...Deck Officer from India.

Have used these terms onboard Calcutta crew ships in the 1990's too.
Serang, Tindal, Cassab (or Kassab), Sukhani, Telwala, Bhandari, Maharaj were commonly used.

I reckon the Selwale could be a typo for Tel-wala or Oil-man/Oiler/greaser.


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