# Rest in Peace Captain



## jmcg (Apr 20, 2008)

Very sad indeed. A man of the old school no doubt. 

http://www.ihsmaritime360.com/article/12977

May his god be with him.

J


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## ben27 (Dec 27, 2012)

good day jmcg.sm,today.05:13.re:rest in peace captain.i read your link.it is a sad result if a crew member was using a grinder in all those fumes,as you say,may the captain rest in peace,regards ben27


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## Alistair94 (Jan 16, 2006)

Dare I say - a proper captain


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## bob nightingale (Mar 18, 2007)

Here we go again,
Very sad indeed for loss of life.
But no investigation,no MAIS.Straight away the politition has emerged from the brickwork and has blamed the Peggy.
Bob.


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## McCloggie (Apr 19, 2008)

Yes, very sad and our thoughts go to the families. But this was also negligent if the reports are to be believed.

Why was a man allowed to use a grinder in these conditions?

Why was there no permit to work system in place?

Why did management or indeed charterers not do proper checks?

Where is competency, training and experience?

What about other services putting their lives at risk thanks to someone else's negligence?

I know some people may go on about excessive HSE - look what we did they say, we knew what it was all about. Yes, you are partly correct because people did one job for years, gained experience and learnt. Today people move on or get employed by cheap companies with no training so serious accidents do occur.

That is why there are stricter rules and why people need to stick by them.

I blame management for not maintaining a proper culture and the charterers for not checking. Using a grinder in these cir***stances - if that is what happened - is asking for a disaster.

McC


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## WilliamH (Jul 9, 2007)

McCloggie said:


> Yes, very sad and our thoughts go to the families. But this was also negligent if the reports are to be believed.
> 
> Why was a man allowed to use a grinder in these conditions?
> 
> ...


McCloggie, you are quick at apportioning blame, I think you should wait until you have the facts before you say things you may later regret.


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## McCloggie (Apr 19, 2008)

Well who am I blaming?

The man with the grinder? Yes he should have known better but if nobody tought him properly or stopped him then no, I do not blame him.

The captain/officers? OK they should have stopped it but if they did not know what was happening then I do not blame them either.

The onshore management? Depends on their Safety Management System and how it was run. Did management force the crew to take uneessary risks? Did they maintain and check people's competency and training?

I agree this is very sad, but my experience is that all these incidents are avoidable - from Piper Alpha downwards - and human error either from management or from individuals are normally a major cause.

I am fortunate to work in the offshore business, either for the North Sea or for companies that maintain North Sea standards wherever they work and so I have an attitude towards Quality, Compliance and Safety - that is what I do!

Although I blame the system more than the individual, the system is run by individuals at management level and ultimately they must take some responsibility.

McC


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## WilliamH (Jul 9, 2007)

McCloggie said:


> Well who am I blaming?
> 
> The man with the grinder? Yes he should have known better but if nobody tought him properly or stopped him then no, I do not blame him.
> 
> ...


The key phrase in my post was "wait until you have the facts"


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## McCloggie (Apr 19, 2008)

And the key phrase in my argument is that systems are run by individuals.

Yes, everyone can make a mistake but the system must try and stop these mistakes becoming major incidents.

We are dealing with people and families here. Why should they suffer if management do not implement and maintain a proper system?

There is a responsibility for management to enure the health, safety and wellfare of their employees. That includes training, competency a Safety Managemnt System and a process to ensure that is maintained.

My argument remains the same - somewhere down the line an individual screwed up - could be design, could be maintenance, could be training, could be lack of Quality Management. For whatever reason something was missed or overruled. 

OK. So we wait until the facts come out. What will these prove? The ship was presumably under Class so all was OK? If not then we must ask what the ship designers, charteres, owners and management were up to. If it is crew error we must ask why they were not competent.

I do not need to hear a report to know that this is a human tradegy. My argument is that - in an official report - various factors for the incident will be found and people will try and hide behind their systems. 

At the end of the day,systems and processes are maintained by individuals who must surely have a responsibility to ensure they are properly run, and the buck stops at senior management who must buy into this and support the process.

McC


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## gdynia (Nov 3, 2005)

WilliamH said:


> The key phrase in my post was "wait until you have the facts"


Ive been in this world for to many years you never get the facts you get CYA stories


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