# Coastguard forced to resign



## Pompeyfan (Aug 9, 2005)

A volunteer coastguard who saved a 13 year old girl last January has been forced to resign according to reports.

The man who won two awards locally climbed down 100ft down a crumbling 300ft cliff edge at East Cleveland without safety equipment in the dark to reach the trapped girl who was trying to get off the cliff. A dog walker heard her cries for help and rang 999.

It seems as if the coastguard acted on impulse seeing the need to reach her more important than to wait for support and safety equipment which he clearly did not have. He held onto her for 30 minutes until the RAf helicopter arrived to winch them to safety.

Perhaps others know more about this story than I do?.

However, I was born and bred on a cliff edge, my father in the local LSA. Ships were coming ashore often, and people getting stuck on cliffs. We often used to have to search cliffs in fog, often with no safety gear when locating a ship or person. The LSA came along with all the gear when a person or ship was found. 

These cliffs were also very dangerous, crumbling and very slippery. I climbed them all the time, it was second nature as it was all of us brought up on them. We knew the dangers, what to avoid and how to rescue people.

Quite often in such cir***stamces you do not have time to wait for proper equipment. This would seem the case here. The coastguard involved said he could not have lived with himself if he had waited for more support and safety gear and she had fallen to her death. But his bosses did not see it that way and said he should have waited. 

Therefore, is this health and safety gone mad, or do the MCA have a point in requesting this coastguard resign?. 

David


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## treeve (Nov 15, 2005)

Judgement Calls - a life is saved, we live with these risks on a daily basis.
By the time the HSE cotton wool brigade arrived, it would be too late in
most cases. I am sure the coastguard took every reasonable care, after
all he would be no use if he himself was lost or placed himself in specific
danger, no more than existed ... sounds like the sort of stuff Charles Lewis
was made of. We, here in Cornwall, were plagued by requests to fence off 
the cliffs at one point. It's a cliff, 200 feet down is the sea ... a bit of 
care and respect is needed. If we live with these things, we are used to
the dangers and on those occasions when judgement calls are needed,
extra care is needed, and I am sure was applied in that case. We are
fast entering the Litigious and Do Nothing State. Good on him, and Good
on You, David, as well ..... Best Wishes, Raymond


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## Guest (Jan 12, 2008)

I believe it is and from what I hear he very likeable guy, hailed a hero by the family of the girl and all his 'cliff face' coastie collegues...
Its a medal he should have got not hassle for working outside the box and making quick selfless decision. 

some more on him by the way : http://www.fortwilliamcoastguard.co.uk/Paul Waugh.htm

from what I believe after a year of hassle... he quit.... was his decision.


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## Pompeyfan (Aug 9, 2005)

Many thanks for that report samuel j. It is far better with more detail than the report I saw, and proves even more how wrong it was that he was forced to resign. It may have been his decision to resign, but it seems he was driven to it.

David


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## Bearsie (Nov 11, 2006)

Modern safety nazi's gone mad...
Most likely all office folks that have never been in the field with perfect 20/20 hindsight.

The New Age as it were (Cloud)


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## Hugh MacLean (Nov 18, 2005)

Pompeyfan said:


> Therefore, is this health and safety gone mad, or do the MCA have a point in requesting this coastguard resign?.
> 
> David


Quite frankly and IMHO health and safety has gone mad. We cannot move now before we tick the health and safety box. Nobody can tell how they will react in any life or death situation but he knew the risks and was prepared to risk his life for the girl, I would like to think I would do the same rather than stand watching someone fall to their death and I am sure that the majority of people on here think the same.

The guy should have been given a bravery award not asked for his resignation. In this country, we give overpaid celebrities, sports people and politicians OBE's, CBE's, Knighthoods but we give real heroes the bullet. Makes me sick.

Regards


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## Gavin Gait (Aug 14, 2005)

For my money he is more of a _REAL_ Hero than the bloke that kicked the burning terrorist in the gonads in Glasgow........


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## Derek Roger (Feb 19, 2005)

Whatever ; the Lad Did Good ! 
And he can be well pleased with his effort .
Im sure that now he has left his position he will still be able to and no doubt will do his best if ever given a similar situation . At least he will not be tormented by others for his actions . 

Derek


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## Pompeyfan (Aug 9, 2005)

I would like to point out to MCA that when two Police Support Officers stood around doing nothing a few months ago a child drowned. They stuck by the rules with drastic results. This Coastguard ignored the rules, and the person survived. Yet he lost his job, and the Police Support Officers didn't. What a crazy world be live in?.

Yes, the Coastguard resigned, but he is reported to have said he was under intense pressure.

So we have two examples. One ignored safety regualations by not waiting thus saving the person, the others adhered to regulations and the person drowned.

Rules and regulations should be there as a guide, not to be adhered to at all costs. At the end of the day the success or failure of a life saving operation is often quick thinking. Quite often all the rules and training in the world do not prepare you for every situation and many rescues has been down to split second thinking, and throwing away the rule book. 

If my job taught me anything is that our bodies are very delicate. I have seen so many accidents where survival or death is a fraction either way. 

We need rules, but we also need common sense because the latter is often that fine line between success and failure. But if we are going to be bogged down by more rules and regulations, fear to help others due to the litigation culture, expect our nanny state to kill more people than it saves.

David


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## Santos (Mar 16, 2005)

Hugh MacLean said:


> .
> 
> The guy should have been given a bravery award not asked for his resignation. In this country, we give overpaid celebrities, sports people and politicians OBE's, CBE's, Knighthoods but we give real heroes the bullet. Makes me sick.
> 
> Regards


Hugh,

You are so right, this country's gone mad and people are making some very foolish decisions.

Chris.


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## Bill Davies (Sep 5, 2007)

The MCA is currently headed by an individual who would not know a propeller from a windlass and surrounded by individuals with questionable background.
My sympathy to the Coastguards who have to work with these people.

Bill


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## derekhore (Sep 21, 2007)

If my memory serves me .. didn't much the same happen last year around London?

A girl fell into the river and a policeman jumped in to rescue her and thus prevent her from drowning, which he managed to do.
He was then 'sacked' for failing to comply with police regulations, ie. the wearing of lifebelts, buoyancy aids, carrying of rope etc-etc.


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## Guest (Jan 13, 2008)

He has gotten a lot of support from his collegues and it all is now out in the public domain....
In Daily mail http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/li...770&in_page_id=1770&expand=true#StartComments

and he will be on GMTV tomorrow


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## Chouan (Apr 20, 2006)

In the comment section of the Mail on line was this:

"I know the area that the 'rescue' took place. I walk it frequently with my dogs, I think it may be possible that the whole thing has been milked for personal gain and publicity. Other coastguards carry out far more dangerous rescues without the publicity circus that Mr W has, he is never out ofthe media in the north east whilst other rescue services involved are ignored. Mr Waugh brought this on himself."

Perhaps there was more to it than meets the eye?


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## Pompeyfan (Aug 9, 2005)

Chouan

This happened a year ago. I find it hard to believe that a man would join the Coastguard or any rescue service especially a volunteer for personal gain and publicity. I think for that dog walker to even suggest this is quite scandalous.

Yes, more dangerous rescues would be carried out, and without the media circus. But this has come to the attention of the media because of crazy rules that he was supposed to follow when his number one priority was to save the girl, not his own safety.

The fact that he was awarded locally for bravery proves he didn't do it for publicity.

From the information I have, he did nothing wrong. Yes, ignored the regulations but his decision seems to have been based on the situation in hand which any decent person would do in similar cir***stances.

Lots of people walk there dogs on our cliffs, but they are not all experts on those cliffs or skilled at rescue. 

More information will surely come out now, some trying to discredit this man further, but I reckon more will be on his side putting pressure perhaps on the MCA to take him back?. They are the ones at real fault here. They should have had a quiet word with him, reminded him of the rules, but at the same time patting him on the back drawing a line under it rather than letting it fester for a year putting this man under huge strain. 

Sounds like his bosses could not organise a crap in a lavatory?!.

David


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## ddraigmor (Sep 13, 2006)

David,

You would be surprised how many people join organisations - volunteer ones like the RNLI and HMCG CRT's - for the 'kudos'. 

Fortunately, they either leave or are weeded out!

OD


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## benjidog (Oct 27, 2005)

Chouan said:


> In the comment section of the Mail on line was this:
> 
> "I know the area that the 'rescue' took place. I walk it frequently with my dogs, I think it may be possible that the whole thing has been milked for personal gain and publicity. Other coastguards carry out far more dangerous rescues without the publicity circus that Mr W has, he is never out ofthe media in the north east whilst other rescue services involved are ignored. Mr Waugh brought this on himself."
> 
> Perhaps there was more to it than meets the eye?


You are right - there could be more to it than meets the eye, but it is also possible that the person adding that anonymous comment just didn't like the bloke and wanted to kick him while he was down. 

It will be interesting to hear the results of any tribunal on constructive dismissal that may be held. I think whatever has happened here MCA has shot itself in the foot. If they had other reasons to try and get rid of this person their timing was abysmal.

Regards,

Brian


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## Chouan (Apr 20, 2006)

"The fact that he was awarded locally for bravery proves he didn't do it for publicity."
Does it?
I know no more about this case than the news items on the links here. I DO know the coast in question very well, and the cliffs in the incident, which are a fairly soft shale.
I'm just suggesting that, as the poster of the comment remarks, perhaps there is more to it, in either direction?


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## Guest (Jan 13, 2008)

Pompeyfan said:


> They should have had a quiet word with him, reminded him of the rules, but at the same time patting him on the back drawing a line under it rather than letting it fester for a year putting this man under huge strain.
> 
> David


This would have been the best solution and from what I hear from his 'Coastie' collegues all over the UK, what should have been done.
we may not be hearing the full story but from what I gather he has the backing of coasties from all over the uk... in fact more cases may now come to light as a result ... The MCA have handled this very badly and about to explode in their faces.

Some comments I thought you might like to get the gist of from his collegues all over the UK and beyond - from a SARs forum

"Honistly, how meny of us would have walked away from a 13 year old hanging off a cliff with an "Its alright dear....we'll be back in ten minites with the correct equipment!" This ****s in suits just don't have a clue. 
Give that man a medal. Hes a true hero"

"I say well done that man, I am 100% behind what he did and I salute him. I would have done the same if in the same situation"

"Imagine the what the family might have done if the poor girl had fallen. 
Enough said!! "

"I know paul and he is a genuine guy who takes his job seriously and he did what he had to do, I would have done the same"

"Having suffered a similiar fate, but stuck it out til the end, when they dismissed me I can only be saddend by yet another case of the MCA dealing with internal matters the only way they seem to know how....with threats, intimidation and investigations which have more to do with settling scores than finding the truth"

"Or maybe if the full story got to the press along with a few other snippets from coasties who have been reprimanded, or bullied out of the service by the high ups then the MCA may be forced to do something by recognising the valuable work the CROs do"


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## Pompeyfan (Aug 9, 2005)

I find it hard to understand why some people seem to think this man is looking for publicity.

How can there be more tham meets the eye when all the man did was rescue a person. This is not an episode from Eastenders but a real life situation. Why must people be so suspicious of the actions of others. Many of these doubters would most likely not have the guts to do anything brave. All they do is sit behind their computer and typewriter and criticise.

I live on the coast, about half a miles from the edge of a cliff when our house, now long gone into the sea perched a few feet from the edge with nothing to protect us from the elements.

On windy days dad had to put shutters up on the sea side of the house because pebbles on the beach 100ft below would hit the house like the shot out of a gun.

The cliff were, and still are very dangerous, crumbling and slippery much as it is around the coasts of the UK. We were all in the local LSA at one stage. It is one thing walking along, and scaling the cliffs in good weather, even experienced people like we were. But it is entirely different in gales, driving rain and fog. That was when ships came ashore, or people got cut off from the tide etc. It was almost always in bad weather.

People who criticise others often do not have a clue as to the dangers others put themselves in to rescue another.

If this man was looking for publicity, he will be found out. But I would be very VERY surprised because my experience is that all coastguards are tarred with the same brush.

And by the way, please take note of what has not been said on this thread. Think about it?!!.

David


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## Chouan (Apr 20, 2006)

samuel j said:


> This would have been the best solution and from what I hear from his 'Coastie' collegues all over the UK, what should have been done.
> we may not be hearing the full story but from what I gather he has the backing of coasties from all over the uk... in fact more cases may now come to light as a result ... The MCA have handled this very badly and about to explode in their faces.
> 
> Some comments I thought you might like to get the gist of from his collegues all over the UK and beyond - from a SARs forum
> ...


On the other hand, they would support him, wouldn't they.
By the way, please don't think that I'm criticising him, I'm not. I'm just suggesting that perhaps, just perhaps, its not quite as clear cut as it looks.


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## Pompeyfan (Aug 9, 2005)

Chouan

It could well turn out to not being as clear cut as it looks.

However, would a man risk his life by climbing down a crumbling cliff that he would know is dangerous, to rescue a young girl in distress do so for publicity?.

David


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## Hugh MacLean (Nov 18, 2005)

I am sure the parents of that girl where grateful that he did what he did. As a parent myself I would hate to think that a tick sheet would get in the way of anyone attempting to save my own son or daughter. What a world we now live in!

Regards


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## Guest (Jan 13, 2008)

http://videos.icnetwork.co.uk/gazettelive/saltburn-cliffs-rescue.wmv

Found this footage of rescue on web


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## Ian (Mar 27, 2004)

Publicity did not come into it, Human instinct did, a life was saved, I agree with Hugh, Yes what a world we live in, thank the lord we have all witnessed a sane world, wonder if any Pol------n would have attempted the rescue, doubt it.
Rgds Bill


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## Santos (Mar 16, 2005)

wa002f0328 said:


> wonder if any Pol------n would have attempted the rescue, doubt it.
> Rgds Bill


Remark not necessary Bill, I might remind you that it was not professional policemen that stood by without helping when that boy drowned ( I believe that this is what you are hinting ) it was Plastic Community Support Officers, when the professional Police Officer arrived he went into the water immediately and attempted to find the lad.

That remark is a slur on professional police officers who have given their lives many times to save people. ( May I remind you of Blackpool when 3 died trying to save someone ) I notice you havnt the courage to actually say Policemen.

Chris(Cloud)


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## Guest (Jan 13, 2008)

Someone had put it on U-bend aka youtube : http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=mkP8UYjqA_I


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## Ron Stringer (Mar 15, 2005)

Chris,
I think you may be shooting from the hip. I read that 'dirty' word, spelled out with asterisks, as politician and not as policemen. And he is dead right there; the only risks they take is trying to get away with ever-bigger bribes, salary and pension increases and - of course, not forgetting expense claims.


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## Gavin Gait (Aug 14, 2005)

Chris it was Politicians he was meaning _NOT_ Policemen.


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## Santos (Mar 16, 2005)

OK Gents, I apologise but why didnt he say politician - nothing to be worried about there, we all know what they are like. 

I am a 30 year PC, after my MN service and nearly lost a very dear friend and colleague to a seaside rescue that went wrong but thanks to the local RNLI Station of which I am a member he lived, thankfully to see me regularly now for a pie and a pint in our retirement.

Chris.


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## ddraigmor (Sep 13, 2006)

I think that situations like this are a bit dodgy now that the Elfin Safety folk are in power.

They will justify their reasons by using terms like 'unneccesary risk to the individual' and 'acting on impulse when there was a dangerous situation that could have been made worse by impulsive action' and so on et al - and they will be justified, in their little bubble worlds where manuals and Group Planning Meetings, Incident Evaluations etc are the order of the day.

The fact is, she was in danger and he risked life and limb to make her safe and get her back. No matter whether he was the village bloody idiot - he put his life on the line to rescue someone in dire straits and whatever his community think of him as an individual, he did what he did and as a result someone is alive. That makes him a hero in my book. I'd buy him a pint!

But the lfin safety folk will have their day. They can not. Bloody bureaucrats.

Jonty


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## Peter4447 (Jan 26, 2006)

ddraigmor said:


> The fact is, she was in danger and he risked life and limb to make her safe and get her back. No matter whether he was the village bloody idiot - he put his life on the line to rescue someone in dire straits and whatever his community think of him as an individual, he did what he did and as a result someone is alive. That makes him a hero in my book. I'd buy him a pint!
> 
> Jonty


Thank you Jonty - is there anything more that needs to be said!
Peter4447(Smoke)


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## Guest (Jan 13, 2008)

Yes indeed, not much more needs to be said, lets just await developments that undoubteldy will now be in the public domain.


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## Waddy (Nov 26, 2007)

I'm just a dumb Yank, so please bear with me. This bloke volunteered for the Coast Guard 13 years ago, and has served ever since, so that he could make this rescue and garner lots of undeserved praise? Have I got that right?


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## UmbornePirate (Feb 3, 2007)

*MCA Statement*

I have only just read this thread and it seems appropriate to place the MCA statement on this incident on the record here. It has been posted on the MCA website for some time now (here). As it seems some members skim read these threads without opening links I think in the interests of balance that is worth quoting in full.



> *Paul Waugh CRO *
> 
> Paul Waugh a volunteer Coastguard Rescue Officer, resigned during an interview on 9 January with BBC Radio Tees.  The interview related to a rescue in which he was involved in Jan 07.
> 
> ...


Pirate


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## non descript (Nov 18, 2005)

UmbornePirate said:


> I have only just read this thread and it seems appropriate to place the MCA statement on this incident on the record here. It has been posted on the MCA website for some time now (here). As it seems some members skim read these threads without opening links I think in the interests of balance that is worth quoting in full.
> 
> 
> 
> Pirate


Pirate,

Thank you for taking the time to place a comment that provides access to both sides of the story. Very seldom is what one sees the whole story and it is helpful indeed to have access to the entire picture, or at least a little bit more of it, so that a more informed conclusion can be reached.

Well done Sir. (Thumb) 

Tonga


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## Pompeyfan (Aug 9, 2005)

Knowing what I do from sources I can't divulge, I would take the MCA statement with huge pinch of sea salt.

David


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## Nairda59 (Jul 6, 2005)

You realise of course that its only the Brits that are doing this H&S thing with such vigour.
Go to Greece and Italy and look at the scaffolding and general H&S on site issues and its almost non existant.
Whats actually missing these days is good old fashioned common sense.
You cant get training for that, there are no pretty certificates for your office wall and there are no PHd's in it at Oxford or Cambridge.


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## Bearsie (Nov 11, 2006)

Nairda59 said:


> You realise of course that its only the Brits that are doing this H&S thing with such vigour.
> Go to Greece and Italy and look at the scaffolding and general H&S on site issues and its almost non existant.
> Whats actually missing these days is good old fashioned common sense.
> You cant get training for that, there are no pretty certificates for your office wall and there are no PHd's in it at Oxford or Cambridge.


You haven't visited the US in a while...
We'll out H&S you in a heart beat [=P]


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## Ian (Mar 27, 2004)

Santos said:


> Remark not necessary Bill, I might remind you that it was not professional policemen that stood by without helping when that boy drowned ( I believe that this is what you are hinting ) it was Plastic Community Support Officers, when the professional Police Officer arrived he went into the water immediately and attempted to find the lad.
> 
> That remark is a slur on professional police officers who have given their lives many times to save people. ( May I remind you of Blackpool when 3 died trying to save someone ) I notice you havnt the courage to actually say Policemen.
> 
> Chris(Cloud)


Hi Chris,
Sorry you read message wrong way, I have indeed got the greatest respect for our policemen and women, I did mean of course politicians, should have wrote it in full, we all know what a twisted,crummy lot they are, cheers Bill(Thumb)


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