# Sleuth required - Sir Thomas Brocklebank



## Barrie Youde (May 29, 2006)

Please could any super-sleuth in SN advise me of the career of the Liverpool Pilot Cutter Sir Thomas Brocklebank after 1974?

She was built by Phillip & Sons at Dartmouth in 1950.

I served four years aboard her as an apprentice 1961-65. She was withdrawn from service in 1974 and was sold to Danish interests. That much I know.

I would be most interested to learn what might have become of the old girl!

Many thanks in anticipation,

BY


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## A.D.FROST (Sep 1, 2008)

Barrie Youde said:


> Please could any super-sleuth in SN advise me of the career of the Liverpool Pilot Cutter Sir Thomas Brocklebank after 1974?
> 
> She was built by Phillip & Sons at Dartmouth in 1950.
> 
> ...


1977 r/n ODYSSEUS b/u Vejie 25.10.82


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## Barrie Youde (May 29, 2006)

Very many thanks, Tony.

That was quick - and most helpful!

Repeated thanks,

BY


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## stein (Nov 4, 2006)

Tom Cunliffe, writing in 2001, claims she belongs to the Merseyside Museum. ("Pilotes," Douarnenez 2001)

He should have known, but some googling indicates he had her mixed up with the Edmund Gardner.


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## Barrie Youde (May 29, 2006)

#4

correct!


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## stein (Nov 4, 2006)

Come to think of it, then maybe Tom Cunliffe was right in what he wrote in his original English text and the French translators got it wrong in the caption to a picture. The picture was a painting by Harold Hing, that you may well have seen, but i am posting it anyway. The landscape does not give the impression of this being "a gateway to the world."


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## Barrie Youde (May 29, 2006)

Dear Stein,

Very many thanks indeed!

No I have not previously seen this picture of the dear old tub! Looks asthough it might be at Dartmouth, upon delivery from the builder?

Do you have any further information regarding painting/artist/date?

Repeated thanks!!!


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## stein (Nov 4, 2006)

All it says is that it is painted by Harold Hing and belongs to the Liverpool Pilots Association. I have not so far found any mention of a Harold Hing elsewhere.


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## Barrie Youde (May 29, 2006)

Very many thanks, Stein.

I have seen several photographs of her as new, but have no recollection of seeing a painting before now.

Repeated thanks,

BY


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## Dartskipper (Jan 16, 2015)

Barrie Youde said:


> Dear Stein,
> 
> Very many thanks indeed!
> 
> ...


That does look like the artist's interpretation of Philip & Sons Shipyard over her stern, together with the surrounding hills. It was known locally as Noss Yard, and Noss Point. (Thumb)


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## stein (Nov 4, 2006)

Found the artist: ING, Harold Vivian 1900-1973
Commercial artist who specialised in marine pictures, born in London. Among his commissioned work was that done for P&O Group and for Cable and Wireless.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/arts/yourpaintings/artists/harold-vivian-ing/paintings/slideshow

And I found this:the online edition of Pilot magazine with "Letter from Barrie Youde," including poem "Salute to the four boat men." http://www.pilotmag.co.uk/2009/12/23/liverpool-retirements-letter-from-barrie-youde/


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## Barrie Youde (May 29, 2006)

#10 and # 11

Many thanks to you both!

My real quest is to discover what became of her and what purpose she served when in Danish hands? She would have made a perfect conversion into a private yacht (at some cost)!


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## Barrie Youde (May 29, 2006)

#6

Forbye! She wass the smertest boat in the trade! - as Para Handy might have put it - an' if Dougie wass here himself he wud tell yer!


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## stein (Nov 4, 2006)

It would seem that she was bought by a very radical and secretive Danish socialist school found by one Amdi Petersen, the school sometimes called “Tvind” and sometimes DRH. I believe it started out as DRH, a sort of travelling high-school, and when established in permanent buildings became Tvind.
I actyally have not much beyond this sentence: In 1976 Amdi Petersen resumed his business as shipowner when DRH bought the British motor ship " Sir Thomas Brocklebank. ' It was the beginning of the acquisition of a number of old wooden ships and the creation of ' the little schools" that would become a new educational and economic hub of the group. 

Something in English about Tvind: http://tvindnewsupdate.blogspot.no/2010_01_01_archive.html
_______________________________
And I have found she was renamed M/S "Odysseus” in 1977. The reason the first line below is a bit difficult to read is because someone had tried to make the “Sir” unreadable with a ball-point pen. It may have been that her first name change was just losing that word.

l/§jfg|f^ThomasJ3r^cklebank» - OYFD - B/264,
659,78 brt - 245,12 net - dw.
LR:
53,52 x 9,63 x 3,871 m
50,30 x 9,61 x 4,42
955 kW/1280 ihk National Gas & Oil Eng.Co.,
Ashton/Lyne - 2/6-cyl. 4SA (305 x 380) driv,
2 generatorer a 375 kW forbundet med 1 elektromotor
686 kW/920 AHK gearet t. 1 aksel -
12 kn.
Passagerskib - 2 dæk uden for maskinrum -
4BH -
Philip & Son Ltd., Dartmouth
Bg. 1189 - S. L. .10.1950.
Bg. som lodsskib (pilot Tender) til
Mersey Docks & Harbour Co., Liverpool:
M/S "Sir Thomas Brocklebank" - Reg.183.7794.
Juni-11/1977 reg. s.t.
Thomas Brocklebank A.m.b.A., Tvind pr.Ulfborg!
M/S "Thomas Brocklebank" af Lemvig.
Juni-ll/1977 reg. omdøbt til
M/S "Odysseus" -
KR: Henning Bjørnlund.
Sept-Il/1979 reg. s.t. disponent Keld A. Jørgensen, Svendborg - hjst. Svendborg
___________________________________
And I found a line from a German book about her sale by Tvind (unless it concerns a later Odysseus, which they had, but that would not suit an around the world trip)
_da er in Odense blieb und das Praktische ordnete, u.a. den Verkauf der "Odysseus", als die Weltumsegelung aufgegeben wurde_. (because he stayed in Odense and saw to a few practical things, inter alia, the sale of "Ulysses", as the cir***navigation was abandoned.)

I know they stood accused in Odense court at one time, and that might well have been for some tax reason making them a bit short of money
____________________________________

And here is a job searcher with experience:

Hans Jørgen Lausten
Active Captain/Crew 
Qualifications
Co-Founder and headmaster of Nyborg Seaman School. Denmark 1977 Navigation School teacher at Svendborg Navigationsskole (Seamac) Denmark. 1976 Delivery 130' Pilot Tender "Sir Thomas Brocklebank" Liverpool - Denmark.
__________________________________

So then she lasted as some kind of school at least from 1977 to 79, and there must be someone on the net who received some instruction in something aboard her in those years.


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## Barrie Youde (May 29, 2006)

Very many thanks, Stein.

Am hugely grateful. Sounds as though somebody chopped 40-odd feet off her length, as she was 176' LOA when built. And that she didn't go very far, either!

A very cheap way of altering a name, too.

Repeated thanks for the information.

B


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## stein (Nov 4, 2006)

Danish ships-list 1979

OYFD Odysseus M.-Pa.-Stl.1280 1950 170 659 245 Thomas Brocklebank, (B 264) Lemvig Rtf.-Rtg.31A.m.b.A., Tvind

Danish ships-list 1980

OYFD Odysseus M.-Pa.-Stl. 720 1950 52 659 245 K. A. Jørgensen, (B 264) Svendborg Rtf.-Rtg. 10 Svendborg.

The information given for1981 are identical to those for 1980

Danish ships-list 1982. (The owners are now the Danish state through the municipality of Nyborg)

OYFD Odysseus M.-Pa.-Stl. 720 1950 52 659 245 Nyborg Kommune, (B 264) Nyborg 10 Nyborg.

Danish ships-list 1983 (and the state seem to have found a buyer)

OYFD (B 264) Odysseus Nyborg M.-Pa.-Stl. 720 1950 52 10 4 659 245 E. E. Andersen, Nørresundby.

She is not in the list as Odysseus for 1984, and not in the list for ships having changed names
___________________________________

From a book:

… was an ordinary happening during our time in South Africa with Odysseus of Lemvig (an old pilot boat from Liverpool, bought and restored by the Tvind Schools) as we rounded the horn of Africa at the end of November 1977… on our voyage home 2-1/2 month later… at the end of the 9 month course on June 1st 1978…

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id...onepage&q=tvind skolens skib odysseus&f=false
_________________________________________

More onTvind and their dubious affairs: http://www.humana-alert.org.uk/whoswho.htm


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## Maurice Fischer (Sep 12, 2016)

*Sir Thomas Brocklebank converted to Odysseus in 1977*

I worked for around three months on this ship in the summer of 1977 as volunteer together with 30 other volunteers from 5 different countries and around 10 teachers of the Tvind school, when it was converted to "Odysseus". 

The plan was to allow 50 students of the so called "travelling highschool" to live on this ship while exploring foreign countries around the world and collecting information for later presentation in Denmark. The "students" where mainly young people in a period of disorientation because of unemployment, drugs or social problems. I liked this concept very much although we Germans had some conflicts with the teachers due to general different political views. 

The danish ship authorities requested renovation of the whole electricity system, additional bulkheads, completely new fire extinguishing system and substitution of all very nice old wooden doors by ugly steel doors. I welded parts of the new partitions, worked for the electricity system and polished the valves of the large engine. It was a great experience for me as I was at that time a student of science of education. 

By the way: this ship worked with a concept which in our days is called "hybrid": A diesel engine actuated a generator which supplied a electric motor for turning the propeller. 

After completion of the work we transferred the ship to San Sebastian in northern Spain. I will never forget the night when we crossed the english channel in a heavy storm, me alone, completely unexperienced at the steering wheel, 80% of the team seasick, dishes falling out of closed cupboards. 

At misty sunrise I was very surprised and irritated when a small point on the radar was moving so much faster than all others I saw before: it was the hoovercraft and it drove around us. Until today I have no idea, who had the right of way. It was a great adventure for me but I wonder, if it was a good idea to let a landlubber as me steer this ship all on one's tod in this storm through the channel. 

I left the ship in San Sebastian and hitch-hiked home. 

It is good to read here, that the ship circled Africa and achieved to return to Denmark. 

I'm curious to hear what happened afterwards, if more journeys happened, if it was sold once more or broken up, because I have a special relation to it. I will try to google it.


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## Maurice Fischer (Sep 12, 2016)

*Sir Thomas Brocklebank in 1980*

I found in http://www.kustvaartforum.com a picture of this ship with the following comment (translated from dutch by google translator): "This is a slide that I took in the summer of 1980 at the Funen ( Fyn) island in Knudshoved , at Nyborg . Why that is I do not know the ferry Ulysses from Lemvig. It seems unlikely that goes a ferry to Nyborg from Lemvig on the west side of the Limfjord . It could be that Odysseus is chartered to ferry Knudshoved - Halskov on the island of Zealand .
That text this morning I adapted to not make it too easy .

Flip and found out that it was not the Edmund Gardner from Liverpool, but the former Liverpool Pilot Cutter Sir Thomas Brocklebank"


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## Barrie Youde (May 29, 2006)

#6 

Dear Stein,

Have sent you a PM asking if you could kindly email me a copy of the Harold Hing painting as shown, but it doues not show in my "outbox" as having been sent.

Please could you kindly confirm receipt? Many thanks.


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## Barrie Youde (May 29, 2006)

#18 

Very many thanks, Maurice, for this splendid photograph which I had not seen until today. Without a doubt that is the dear old Sir Thomas Brocklebank in which I served four years as an apprentice between the ages of 18 & 22. (1961 -65)

Very many thanks indeed!


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