# Chart Corrections



## John Campbell

In this age of electronic charts etc. I wonder if Navigators correct charts like we did in the good old days.? 

In Caltex it was the 2nd mates job to keep all the charts, light lists etc up to date and it was no easy task . Each officer had his own system and after a few years experience the task got easier and the advent of special"pens" was a great help. Notices to mariners -were kept in bundles below the chart room settee for years.

It was always the first question when boarding a new ship, asw 2nd Mate "Are the charts up to date?"

In Bank Line when we were lucky enough to get to the UK we got a brand new set of up to date corrected chart folios
JC


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## Pilot mac

World wide folios were a nightmare especially when you didnt have the luxury of tracings. The rotring pens would often block or cease to work at the crucial moment! A lot of the ships I pilot these days dont have charts so I suppose the job is a thing of the past.

regards
Dave


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## vasco

Still being done, though light lists are digital we now have radio lists to correct.
With the upcoming ECDIS regs some ships will be able to dispense with paper. Somre are using both.


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## NoR

The trick was to keep an index of all charts held showing permanent and temporary corrections. All that was needed then was to check that the charts in use had been corrected. Of course you needed to hang onto the Notices, but we did that anyway.
I believe that the RFA had a system similar to this.


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## Tony Shaw

The best ship I was on for chart corrections was the sludge boat "Mancunium". The only charts we had were of the Manchester Ship Canal and the Mersey !


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## borderreiver

As 2 mate joined one tanker that had spend over years heavy coasting. started checking the world set of charts one by one each correcting finding the correction number had been put in the bottom right but the correction had not been put on the chart. so turned to re correct a world set of charts which took over 6 months. 
Found lots of charts out of date which were ordered . When we got to dry dock commons bros ordered the charts ashore to the same company who had not done the job before. very angry put the charts on the dock bottom and went and did my master ticket


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## Nick Balls

These days with ECDIS its all done by direct download via E Mail! 
I for one would will not miss that job anyway!! (Don't have to worry these days anyway as I'm well beached)


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## Alistair Macnab

*Chart Corrections....*

On a Bank Boat assigned to the Oriental African Line, as second mate I only kept the appropriate chart folios up-to-date with corrections from "Notices" as we never got any updated charts from Kelvin Hughes - the chart folio providers. 

This was fine except if the ship was suddenly switched to another service or cargo then charts were uncorrected! It was a gamble, I must admit, but as it happened, the "Carronbank" after nearly two years on the Far East service WAS switched to a home run and I was faced with a mammoth task!

Also re-arranged the sequence of the charts in each folio to reflect the port rotations on the O/A route so that the next chart out of the drawer was the appropriate one. Was feeling pleased with myself until the Master noted that the sequences were not the K-H sequences so I had to change them back!

Fun and Games as a 2/O!

But looking back, a 2/Os job was the best one aboard. Everyone down for a siesta in the afternoon and all nicely tucked up in bed in the middle of the night! What could be a nicer feeling of being in complete control than that?


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## oldseamerchant

Alistair Macnab said:


> Fun and Games as a 2/O!
> 
> But looking back, a 2/Os job was the best one aboard. Everyone down for a siesta in the afternoon and all nicely tucked up in bed in the middle of the night! What could be a nicer feeling of being in complete control than that?


Couldn't disagree more Alistair! Chart corrections were a pain and so often the previous 2/O would create a new system peculiar to him and him alone or imported from another company. If you had the benefit of doing your time in one company where, I suspect a well tried and mandatory regime prevailed maybe things would be different.


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## borderreiver

Alistair Macnab said:


> On a Bank Boat assigned to the Oriental African Line, as second mate I only kept the appropriate chart folios up-to-date with corrections from "Notices" as we never got any updated charts from Kelvin Hughes - the chart folio providers.
> 
> This was fine except if the ship was suddenly switched to another service or cargo then charts were uncorrected! It was a gamble, I must admit, but as it happened, the "Carronbank" after nearly two years on the Far East service WAS switched to a home run and I was faced with a mammoth task!
> 
> Also re-arranged the sequence of the charts in each folio to reflect the port rotations on the O/A route so that the next chart out of the drawer was the appropriate one. Was feeling pleased with myself until the Master noted that the sequences were not the K-H sequences so I had to change them back!
> 
> Fun and Games as a 2/O!
> 
> But looking back, a 2/Os job was the best one aboard. Everyone down for a siesta in the afternoon and all nicely tucked up in bed in the middle of the night! What could be a nicer feeling of being in complete control than that?


What no bridge cricket in the afternoon. Browns almanac as the wicket. bridge straight edge for the bat and the chart rubber as the 
ball. Making sure you.cadets and other hanger oners are not making a noise over the old mans deck head


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## China hand

Came off the Japan-Africa run and sent to the Great Lakes. Busted my guts correcting years old charts, got them nearly all done (some new editions missing), then the agent shoved a complete set of up to date Yank and Canook charts on board in Montreal. I didn't know whether to laugh or cry. The delights of 2nd Mate'ing in 1968.(egg)


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## gdynia

Ive surveyed sevearal vessels this month for taking on charter about half of them are still chart correcting from Admiralty notices to Mariners so down here in Mexico the electronic age for local vessels has not reached us yet


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## Stephen J. Card

Most Denholm ships carried full world folios. A work up, but not too bad with tracings. The secret was rotring with magenta ink... not the black india ink. The magenta did not clog and looked very professional... almost as good as the corrections made by Kelvin Hughes!.

The easiest ever was a trip in Shaw Savill's ICENIC. Charts for UK south coast to Panama, NY, Australia and return via Suez. I don't think there were more than 150 charts on board. It took longer to sort out the tracings than it did to make the corrections and at end of voyage everything was sent ashore to be check by a chart agency. Wasted money.


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## 5036

The US Navy are all ECDIS now and the resulting Guardian grounding might cause some questioning of the policy.


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## 8575

Most Bank Boats carried 24 Folios so correcting could be a nightmare, particularly when you pitched up on one side of the Pacific having had a leisurely crossing from the US only to be landed with a huge pile of weekly NMs! I soon adopted a system where I kept a book of all the charts and corrections due. When and if we got a charter that required charts not normally used it was just a matter of opening the book, digging out the NMs and bringing them up to date. A visit to a stationers in Philadelphia proved valuable as they had fine nib magenta biros which made life considerably easier than struggling with Rotrings. I bought quite a lot of them!

Occasionally one would strike lucky and get a new edition before correcting was required. Very occasionally one would get really lucky and get a complete new up to date set of 24 folios, which happened to me on Marabank in 1971. She hadn't been back to Europe for years and so when we went to Marseille to discharge sugar lo and behold, new charts, publications and a vast amount of stores!

As you said Alistair, great being 2/0 - lord of all you surveyed - well, for a few hours anyway.


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## paul0510

Second Mate's job was the best ever which is why somebody referred to me after 8 years as a 'Professional 2/O'. I used to carry my own set of Rotrings and inks having been screwed on occasion with bent 'nibs' and empty inkpots.
Coasting proved problematic as the only time I had to update charts was during my 6 hour respite between tanker cargo watches.
Deep sea was less of a problem. If you had an Apprentice on watch he was dispatched to the wheelhouse (vessels with real chartrooms!) for the duration or, on mostly all-aft vessels, the chart table was integrated into the wheelhouse and the Apprentice was given more meaningful tasks as far from the Bridge as possible!
Winding the chronometer at 09:00 was on occasion stressful especially after a 'sesh' with the 3/E in the early hours.
But, in the main, a job that for me brought a whole lot of satisfaction, ink blots or not. (Thumb)


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## lakercapt

*Winding the chronometer*



paul0510 said:


> Second Mate's job was the best ever Winding the chronometer at 09:00 was on occasion stressful (Thumb)


As second mate in port on one occasion I forgot to wind the chronometer for not one day but several.
When I did I found it stopped.
Panic set in.
Got "Sparky" to get a time signal, unscrewed the faceplate and set the hands to the approximate time and as the manual of navigation said give the chronometer a twisting motion to start it.
I did all that but they should have mentioned that you had to wind it first!!!
Turned it over to wind it and the damn thing fell out.
Now I really panicked.
Wound it and started the procedure all over again and to my relief it started ticking away.
When we were back out on the briney the usual time checks indicated that the rate had changed and instead of gaining 1 second a day it was loosing 1 second every two days.
Very strange noted the captain, wonder how that happened.
I did not enlighten him!!!!!!


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## oldseamerchant

Above two posts mention mention 0900 for winding the chronometer. In all the ships I sailed in it was the first job as soon after midnight when the 3/o cleared off. How many recall the notice found in all Second Mates bathrooms reminding you of this duty. *'CHRONOMETER!!!'* (usually over the mirror)


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## Varley

Funny isn't it. It's only the navigating fraternity that have the knack of starting a proper chronometer. Practice?


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## 5036

Pal of mine was taking the noon sight on a P&O liner. No smoking on the bridge so he had a habit of taking a sly smoko as he aligned the sextant. One occasion the old man appeared in his peripheral vision and he instinctively threw the *** over the side except he threw the sextant instead and as the old man came out he was standing sheepishly with *** in hand. Bill for a sextant and a real reaming out followed.


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## ernhelenbarrett

can any old Bankliners remember the tissue paper chart for Kavieng? On Tweedbank/GBYC we picked it up in Sydney and after sailing from Kavieng to Rabaul posted it back to Sydney. It was a hand made job with notations such as"when green painted tin shed is abeam go 5 degrees to port" and things like
"green shed now painted red". We even managed to pick up part of a Japanese Zero when heaving in the anchor!
Ern Barrett


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## Clanline

As second mate I had a note on the mirror in my cabin FEED THE CROWS to remind me to wind the chronometers!


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## vasco

One Master I was with insisted I was on the Bridge at 0900 every morning. I thought it was to take sights and it made little sense to me as some morns the sun was low.
After about a week coasting I was called by the 3/O and told to report to the Masters cabin at 0900 and he was not happy with me.
I got there and took a 5 minute ear bashing about how 2/Os should be on the bridge at 09:00 it is imperative that the routine tasks are carried out. This guy was a well known bully but now I had had enough. I asked him what routine duty as the vessel is costing and a sight was not required. He then gave me another ear bashing about having to wind the chron at the same time every day and I should know better having been 2/O for a trip and a bit. When he finished I asked him how many trips he had done on this vessel. His reply was many. I then informed him, in as polite a voice I could muster, that he should know better as the chron was battery operated. He did not believe me until we went on the bridge and he could not show me how to wind it up. The rest of the trip was peaceful


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## borderreiver

vasco said:


> One Master I was with insisted I was on the Bridge at 0900 every morning. I thought it was to take sights and it made little sense to me as some morns the sun was low.
> After about a week coasting I was called by the 3/O and told to report to the Masters cabin at 0900 and he was not happy with me.
> I got there and took a 5 minute ear bashing about how 2/Os should be on the bridge at 09:00 it is imperative that the routine tasks are carried out. This guy was a well known bully but now I had had enough. I asked him what routine duty as the vessel is costing and a sight was not required. He then gave me another ear bashing about having to wind the chron at the same time every day and I should know better having been 2/O for a trip and a bit. When he finished I asked him how many trips he had done on this vessel. His reply was many. I then informed him, in as polite a voice I could muster, that he should know better as the chron was battery operated. He did not believe me until we went on the bridge and he could not show me how to wind it up. The rest of the trip was peaceful


That sounds like me as old man. Today you never see the 2 nd mate until he/she has to go on watch. saying that our turns rounds are faster and going in and out of ports mores deck officers required on bridge to keep vetting inspectors happy.


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## RayJordandpo

vasco said:


> One Master I was with insisted I was on the Bridge at 0900 every morning. I thought it was to take sights and it made little sense to me as some morns the sun was low.
> After about a week coasting I was called by the 3/O and told to report to the Masters cabin at 0900 and he was not happy with me.
> I got there and took a 5 minute ear bashing about how 2/Os should be on the bridge at 09:00 it is imperative that the routine tasks are carried out. This guy was a well known bully but now I had had enough. I asked him what routine duty as the vessel is costing and a sight was not required. He then gave me another ear bashing about having to wind the chron at the same time every day and I should know better having been 2/O for a trip and a bit. When he finished I asked him how many trips he had done on this vessel. His reply was many. I then informed him, in as polite a voice I could muster, that he should know better as the chron was battery operated. He did not believe me until we went on the bridge and he could not show me how to wind it up. The rest of the trip was peaceful


Brilliant! Love it!


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## Binnacle

Recently on another thread a member stated that he had to report to the master when the chronometer had been wound. I presume it was a wind up ?. The thought of a mature adult holding a certificate of competency being required to engage in this ritual beggars belief.


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## Stephen J. Card

One OM I sailed with let it be known that he didn't trust any 2nd Mate that didn't get up for breakfast. Grrrrr.
Best thing about the job was basically being left alone by everyone else. For the most part you were your own boss. Top of the list was probably job satisfaction.

Negatives.... Chief Engineers that made the claim that the 2/M owed them a beer if there was negative slip on the noon to noon run!


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## oldseamerchant

It would appear that many of the posts refer to characteristics of old time ship masters. Some, it must be conceded, did have some old fashioned and eccentric ways about going about things but, when the going gets tough and seamanship is required they may have been a better alternative to what is around now.


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## slick

All,
One OM in Hains would make the Second Mate and the Third Mate give him their calculations ( he would only accept Long. By Chron.)for Noon separately he would then plot them himself.
Obviously to prevent collusion name to the best of my recall was G------, AKA 'One Eye"
I have probably repeated myself.

Yours aye,

slick


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## IRW

On several Bank boats before the advent of chart folio indexes use the back of a clean chart then from left list chart number,folio,consecutive number and finally corrections. On one of the copra ships the pacific folio was huge,containing Aus,NZ,USA as well as home made charts of the out of the way places the ship had visited over the years. Kelvin Hughes place new uptodate folios onboard in London and that folio was reduced to the bog standard KH collection. At the bouys in Calcutta a mavelous place to cath up on corrections.


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## Clanline

Stephen I had forgotton the 'lies' the C/E used to put in the log to claim a beer!

Nice one!

Remember sitting off Bombay at anchor for many weeks catching up with chart corrections too!


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## James_C

To answer an earlier question as to what happens today, on my ship, whilst we have an electronic chart system onboard, our primary means of navigation is still by paper chart. Head office inform me that this will remain the case even after it becomes mandatory to fit ECDIS in 2017.
We receive our chart tracings on a weekly basis via email, these being ship/folio specific so that we only receive those tracings/NTMs for the charts we hold onboard, these are then printed out by the 2/O and the charts/publications corrected accordingly. Should we receive a chart onboard which requires correction, then an email is sent to the chart outfitter who will update our details on his computer ashore. He will then send all the relevant NTM's for that chart with the next weekly update so that it can be brought upto date.
Rather ironically, our electronic charts are updated by CD (we have a worldwide folio) which is received by post, this is because of the cost of transmitting/receiving via satellite the large amounts of data required to update the electronic system. 
Like many, I really enjoyed the 2/O's job. More trust and freedom than being 3/O and without the grief/graft of being C/O. Chart corrections were a small sacrifice for the (relative) watchkeeping freedom enjoyed, and whilst this might sound somewhat masochistic, I always enjoyed the practical navigation side of things too, e.g. passage planning, working out sailings, forenoon/noon/afternoon sights etc. 
As part of my 'kit', as well as the aforementioned Rotring pens, spare knibs and a jar of magenta ink, I always took an 18'' rolling parallel ruler to sea with me, as I much preferred using that style to conventional parallel rules. Rolling rulers seem to have been something of a BP/RN convention, as I can't recall sailing on any other ships which carried them, or at least they didn't until I came onboard and ordered one!
Regarding eccentrics, a lot of my contemporaries and subordinates certainly regard me as one, as it seems I'm somewhat 'out of time' compared to the youngsters who are coming through now. For example, whilst they often understand, if not necessarily agree with my passion for regular use of the 'sun gun', my insistence on some semblance of flag etiquette completely mystifies them!


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## George.GM

I joined an RFA in Sigapore in May '65 as 2/O.
To my horror I discovered that the world wide folio had not been corrected for
twelve months. The only charts kept up to date were Singapore and the immediate area. When I confronted the guy I was replacing he said "if I was in the RN I would have had a Navigators Yeoman to do chart corrections. Im not, so I haven't, so I didn't. And as I'm leaving here on promotion, I don't care".
The Captain told me to do my best to correct the charts but in Singapore on a ship with no A/C it would have been a mammoth task.
So I persuaded the local Chart Depot to change the outit. Even at the cost of a case of Gordons I thought it was well worth it


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## Windsor

Joined a tramp as 2/O in the sixties. Being shown around by the outgoing in***bent I found every chart drawer groaning under the strain. Later, on passing the hospital, I noticed what looked like chart folios stacked under the bunk. That's the rest of them he said!


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## Derek Roger

The best thing about chart corrections from an engineering standpoint is that the charts were at some time replaced with new ones and then the old ones could be used for various purposes ( making gaskets for "Wee Mack " fresh water pumps being one ) 
I also used them for making big diagrams of various systems on the ship . I still have one of the Mahout bridge control system made in 1966 on the back of an old Singapore Straits chart ( a collectors piece perhaps )


Derek


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## ninabaker

I always loved the beautiful heavy slightly shiny paper the old charts were printed on. And I didnt much care for the new style ones in yellow and blue - the older ones with engravings of mountains and so on were lovely. I always took any gash charts that were being turfed out.

Likewise the older Admiralty Pilot books - always worth a read. Some hadnt been updated since Nelson was a boy. I seem to recall the entry for the Kuria Muria islands maintained that pirates (likely) and cannibals (unlikely) were to be found and to bear as far off land as possible.


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## slick

All,
I still am uncomfortable using H pencils, I feel that 2B are proper pencils and the easiest to use, I have a copy of BA 5000 framed and on the wall, it is a conversation starter.

Yours aye,

slick


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## John Briggs

I never did enjoy doing chart corrections. Particularly on ships with a large number of portfolios.


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## duncs

I love looking at charts, regardless of which part of the world they are for. The information contained on them is incredible. I have a chart folio on the laptop, and its great to go anywhere on the world on it. It certainly was a workup for the 2/O keeping the world wide folios up to date. I often helped where I could. It was great to get old charts off him. (various 2/O's various ships)


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## Robert Bush

Irreverent Chart Notation.

Saw on chart of southern ocean.

Iceberg reported 1905

Believed to have melted 1995


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## Chris Isaac

U-C Mail run.... 1 chart folio
Not quite as easy as Isle of White ferry but not far short of it.


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## BAROONA

When my wife sailed with me, first three years after we married, beside the large sign over my mirror to wind the chronos was another... "Pill"


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## peter3807

The tracings were a godsend. Must admit i quite enjoyed spending peaceful hours on night cargo watch keeping world wide folios up to date. Matter of pride in the job that you handed your relief a fully up to date set of charts,light lists etc. The premis for using magenta ink was that corrections were clearly identifiable. I found that when you received a large number of notices it was best to check through the lot for new editions of charts. I recall as a new 2nd mate working through notices from the earliest, doing many detailed insertions of new seperation zones then finding in the latest notice a new edition and been published with them all included.
Regarding the chronometer I can not remember when I used to wind it. I can however remember putting on the headphones every watch to check the errorewith the time signal.


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## duncs

Re chronometers, I remember mid seventies, on a modern VLCC, I put the time signal through to the bridge for the 2/O, about 1000hrs. A few minutes later the phone rang, the 2/O telling me, "Your time signal is wrong!" On enquiring why, he told me his modern electronic chronometer was always correct to the second, ergo, my time signal was wrong! Later, in the PM, he rang me to apologize, and said the time signal was "probably OK", but that he'd changed the batteries in the chronometer and wanted another T/S to set it up again.


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## Michal-S

I spent some time bending over charts and pubs, no tracings then-available but too expensive. I have never liked cut-and-paste job with 'Lists of Lights'-boring and messy sometimes. And the most depressing was receiving a pile of ten or so Notices when vessel reached 'convenient port' for owner's post to be sent.
How it is done nowadays? Even if there is no full ECDIS on the bridge then systems exist allowing steady reception of all notices, including tracings, via e-mail or data connection. Very easy to manage with filtering options (only corrections for active charts and publications can be displayed with other safely stored for eventual future reference).
'Lists of Lights', 'Radio Signals vol.6' and "Tide Tables' have been digitalised too, already, allowing for auto-correcting.
Anyway old skills are in retreat, not only in the chartroom...


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## joe732

Michal-S said:


> I spent some time bending over charts and pubs, no tracings then-available but too expensive. I have never liked cut-and-paste job with 'Lists of Lights'-boring and messy sometimes. And the most depressing was receiving a pile of ten or so Notices when vessel reached 'convenient port' for owner's post to be sent.
> How it is done nowadays? Even if there is no full ECDIS on the bridge then systems exist allowing steady reception of all notices, including tracings, via e-mail or data connection. Very easy to manage with filtering options (only corrections for active charts and publications can be displayed with other safely stored for eventual future reference).
> 'Lists of Lights', 'Radio Signals vol.6' and "Tide Tables' have been digitalised too, already, allowing for auto-correcting.
> Anyway old skills are in retreat, not only in the chartroom...


Even without the benefit of digitised LOL's, LRS Vol 6 and Tide Tables (which I must admit are handy, for printing out etc, to add the relevant pages for passage planning), I find that the loose leaf folio system far better than all the Blue Peter badge cut and pasting stuff.

Take out the old pages, add the new.

Whilst old skills may be in retreat, do many of us really have the time these days for cutting out and glueing bits of paper, with the minimal manning scales in place?


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## Michal-S

Referring to retreat of old skills I did not have, actually, in mind the kindergarten job with scissors and glue-sticks but I was thinking more generally about navigation and seamanship-this is material for a book rather than post on the forum.
A real beauty in digitalised publications is that they do not need to be printed at all! Legally, one gets certificate for using them from approved provider and, technically, same as ECDIS-proper back-up does a job. Personally, I prefer passage plan to be concise and would not promote attaching pages from tides, LL or ALRS to them. Looks nice for inspection in port, with pictures and stuff, but practically difficult to use. On the other hand, returning to the beginning of my post, growing number of navigators do not know how to make a proper use of publications, starting with chart symbols.


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## Pat Thompson

Greetings,

Chart corrections...such fun. In Souter's Sheaf Crest, world wide outfit, no support whatsoever other than the NTMs. No tracings, no automatic updates and the starting point only as good as the last Second Off left it, a total bl**dy nightmare. So as I said "Such Fun"


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## joe732

Michal-S said:


> Referring to retreat of old skills I did not have, actually, in mind the kindergarten job with scissors and glue-sticks but I was thinking more generally about navigation and seamanship-this is material for a book rather than post on the forum.
> A real beauty in digitalised publications is that they do not need to be printed at all! Legally, one gets certificate for using them from approved provider and, technically, same as ECDIS-proper back-up does a job. Personally, I prefer passage plan to be concise and would not promote attaching pages from tides, LL or ALRS to them. Looks nice for inspection in port, with pictures and stuff, but practically difficult to use. On the other hand, returning to the beginning of my post, growing number of navigators do not know how to make a proper use of publications, starting with chart symbols.


Without having access to the digital publications at the moment, I don't really see the difficulty in printing off the relevant details of pilot stations, VTS etc rather than scribbling them down, or needing to look at a computer screen that maybe isnt even on the bridge or chart room?

Not exactly a safe watch keeping practise.

Agree with you reference publications such as NP 5011 ( always liked looking up the obscure symbols).


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## Derek Roger

Just a thought ; why did the 2nd mates wife not do the corrections while he was on watch ( one would hope she had no other duties during that time ? ) That would allow him to keep a proper visual watch .

That was what did happen on one ship I sailed on in Brocklebanks . She went on watch with him for a period and did corrections . She also did her steering ticket ( guided by the QM's ). When the weather became foul she was the one selected by the Captain to hold a heading .


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