# Steam Engines and Stokeholds



## John Rogers (May 11, 2004)

I have a question about the difference in the size of the stoke-holds between a Liberty and a Victory, to the Park,Fort,and Empires ships. I have sailed in the Parks,Forts and Empire ships but never in the Liberty and Victories.The question is the difference in the size of the stoke-hold where the fireboxes are located, especially on the three boiler nine fire set up. Looking at pictures of the American ships they are much smaller,some that appeared to have only two boilers,yet with the same size engine. Is it because of the use of oil fired boilers instead of coal,I happened to work in both coal and oil fired and both stoke-holds were the same size,about 50 feet wide (Beam)and 20 feet from firebox to bulkhead. Any ideas anyone.??

John.


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## Jim S (Jan 21, 2006)

The Victory and Liberty ships had two water tube boilers this would explain the apparent differences in size that you mention. I am not sure if the same type of boiler was fitted in both types of ships but the Liberty ships had Babcock Header Type boilers which were a rugged design. Size for size the water tube boilers were capable of producing more steam than equivalent smoke tube boilers. 
The Liberty ships boilers operated at about 250 psi. I would guess the Victory ships would have operated around 450 psi.


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## jamesgpobog (Feb 18, 2012)

John Rogers said:


> I have a question about the difference in the size of the stoke-holds between a Liberty and a Victory, to the Park,Fort,and Empires ships. I have sailed in the Parks,Forts and Empire ships but never in the Liberty and Victories.The question is the difference in the size of the stoke-hold where the fireboxes are located, especially on the three boiler nine fire set up. Looking at pictures of the American ships they are much smaller,some that appeared to have only two boilers,yet with the same size engine. Is it because of the use of oil fired boilers instead of coal,I happened to work in both coal and oil fired and both stoke-holds were the same size,about 50 feet wide (Beam)and 20 feet from firebox to bulkhead. Any ideas anyone.??
> 
> John.


I have several pix of the engine room of Lane Victory, but few are processed (rotated, etc.). He're's one of the boilers. The other is mirrored to the left, and they are up near the forward bulkhead. Right on the fwd bulkhead between them is the fuel oil heater/manifold. There is a small burner work table right between the boiler fronts. The engine and it's control board is a bit forward and I think a bit starboard, mid line is the reduction gear. Starboard side of the compartment is lots of pumps and motors, port is a few more pumps and stuff and the condenser. The shaft is a stand-up walk all the way back to the stern tube. 

Several catwalk levels go up, there's stuff up there too that I don't remember (there is a small check level catwalk between the boilers), but I seem to remember lots of open space too...


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## Jim S (Jan 21, 2006)

The photo is of a typical Babcock and Wilcox Header Type Boiler.
The Liberty ship boiler front was similar although usually it had four burners in a line. I have not seen before the three burner layout as shown. She certainly looks well maintained. I considered the Babcock Header Type boiler to be superior to the equivalent Foster Wheeler D Type.


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## jamesgpobog (Feb 18, 2012)

Jim S said:


> The photo is of a typical Babcock and Wilcox Header Type Boiler.
> The Liberty ship boiler front was similar although usually it had four burners in a line. I have not seen before the three burner layout as shown. She certainly looks well maintained. I considered the Babcock Header Type boiler to be superior to the equivalent Foster Wheeler D Type.


These really don't seem very large to me. I steamed the same boiler with 4 burners (see below), those seemed about a third/a half again as large. Though my boiler experience is limited to this one ship, I liked them, they seemed simple and easy to operate. Doing watersides was a pain though, all those handhole plugs....yikes. Getting them all sealed could be a lot of work.


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## John Rogers (May 11, 2004)

jamesgpobog said:


> I have several pix of the engine room of Lane Victory, but few are processed (rotated, etc.). He're's one of the boilers. The other is mirrored to the left, and they are up near the forward bulkhead. Right on the fwd bulkhead between them is the fuel oil heater/manifold. There is a small burner work table right between the boiler fronts. The engine and it's control board is a bit forward and I think a bit starboard, mid line is the reduction gear. Starboard side of the compartment is lots of pumps and motors, port is a few more pumps and stuff and the condenser. The shaft is a stand-up walk all the way back to the stern tube.
> 
> Several catwalk levels go up, there's stuff up there too that I don't remember (there is a small check level catwalk between the boilers), but I seem to remember lots of open space too...


Compared to the Fort and Park Boats this boiler and fire door is very small,you could place at least 6 of these in the stoke-holds of the Forts and Parks,yet they were almost the same size ship beam wise.
I guess the design of the boilers was more efficient.
Wish we could find a picture of the Parks and Forts stoke-hold.


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## Jim S (Jan 21, 2006)

James,
I agree with you about the handhole plugs they could be a bit of a nightmare if you needed to take out a lot of them - The economisers of the Foster Wheeler D Type were just as bad. I do concede that in the strive for better economy and higher output the basic simplicity of the Header Type boiler became somewhat compromised and yet although it required more headroom than some other types it occupied less floor space. In my opinion the Header Type boiler was less prone to blockages of the gas flow but with its compact shape care had to be taken to prevent flame impingement on the furnace rear water walls that were fitted on more modern higher rated boilers of the type.


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## kewl dude (Jun 1, 2008)

Attached picture I took of the JOB port boiler September 30, 2006 when she visited San Diego for Fleet Week.

Greg Hayden


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## John Rogers (May 11, 2004)

John Rogers said:


> Compared to the Fort and Park Boats this boiler and fire door is very small,you could place at least 6 of these in the stoke-holds of the Forts and Parks,yet they were almost the same size ship beam wise.
> I guess the design of the boilers was more efficient.
> Wish we could find a picture of the Parks and Forts stoke-hold.


Well I found two photos of the stoke-hold and I can see what Jim meant in the difference in boiler design,there is a lot of space saved with the Liberty and Victory boiler design, and placement. Thinking back to when I shoveled coal into the fires there was only one gauge we had to keep our eye on and that was a large steam pressure gauge. After converting the same boilers to oil we gained two more gauges,to keep our eyes on,they were the oil temp gauge fueling the fires,and the water gauge,hence the name change from Fireman/Trimmer to Fireman/Water-tender.

John


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## jamesgpobog (Feb 18, 2012)

> I agree with you about the handhole plugs they could be a bit of a nightmare if you needed to take out a lot of them...


We had 4 boilers, and when we did the watersides, every plug came out of every boiler every time, and every gasket seat on every plug was wire brushed clean with a bench grinder.

I assume everyone used the same method to seal them, slugging wrenches and 3lb sledges. Just get all the plugs set back in, slugged down, fill the boiler and pressurize it, and go to work beating down all the leaks. I hurt myself once when I was really pounding a leak, taking full swings as hard as I could to the wrench. I was holding it in place with my left hand, and I missed the wrench, the hammer glanced off the header and made me miss. I took the wooden handle of the hammer across the middle bone of my left pinkie, no give, because the finger was resting on the wrench. Didn't break it, but that was some searing, blinding-white pain...


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## jamesgpobog (Feb 18, 2012)

Here's a pic from the LV site of the turbines.


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