# Sunspots



## BobClay (Dec 14, 2007)

As you may know we are about, or just coming off the peak of a solar maximum. This week we've had an absolutely colossal sun spot wonderfully designated as AR2192. Big enough to swallow Jupiter, let alone the Earth. Apparently it has interrupted radio transmissions across the spectrum, and HF in particular (although I'm not sure who or what uses short wave anymore other than Radio Hams.) It is very spectacular:
http://www.spaceweather.com/


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## trotterdotpom (Apr 29, 2005)

Call me old fashioned, but what's a CME?

Aren't there any shortwave broadcast stations ... BBC World Service, etc, anymore?

John T


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## BobClay (Dec 14, 2007)

Damned if I know. And I'm sort of ashamed of that. ... :-(


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## tunatownshipwreck (Nov 9, 2005)

A CME is a coronal mass ejection, the long name for a solar flare.


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## trotterdotpom (Apr 29, 2005)

Thanks Tunatown, I should have guessed. Aren't they worried about the flares zapping out communications satellites and what not?

I remember the 11 year sunspot cycle peaking and causing havoc with kHF communications.

John T


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## RayL (Apr 16, 2008)

We're not quite as helpless as we were a few years ago for there are satellites closely watching the Sun's activity from different angles so that CMEs can be tracked. If the CME is heading our way, sensitive satellites can be switched off in a timely way, and a careful watch kept on power grids, etc., to protect against destructive surges that might be caused by induction.


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## John Briggs (Feb 12, 2006)

As a tramp Master in the 60's I quite enjoyed the interruption to coms due to atmospherics.

When waiting for orders we could at times find a nice spot to anchor and do a bit of fishing without interference from the bloody office.


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## tunatownshipwreck (Nov 9, 2005)

trotterdotpom said:


> Thanks Tunatown, I should have guessed. Aren't they worried about the flares zapping out communications satellites and what not?
> 
> I remember the 11 year sunspot cycle peaking and causing havoc with kHF communications.
> 
> John T


Oh yeah, they're worried. There are a lot more satellites in use for communications since the last sunspot cycle, and the backup shortwave transmitters have been dismantled. We've had a very light sunspot cycle this time, if we get another one like the ones that peaked in 1979 and 1989, we're in for some real trouble. One flare in 1989 knocked out most of the power in Quebec.


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## BobClay (Dec 14, 2007)

The trend for solar activity has been for the intensity to get much lower over the last four or five solar maximums, to the point where some astrophysicists suspect a repeat of the 'Maunder Minimum' of the 17th century. While this might be good for sensitive satellites, it might not be so good for climate change. The jury is still out on that one.


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## RayL (Apr 16, 2008)

tunatownshipwreck said:


> Oh yeah, they're worried. There are a lot more satellites in use for communications since the last sunspot cycle, and the backup shortwave transmitters have been dismantled. We've had a very light sunspot cycle this time, if we get another one like the ones that peaked in 1979 and 1989, we're in for some real trouble. One flare in 1989 knocked out most of the power in Quebec.


As I explained in #6, the situation is not the same now so damage to satellites and power grids should be less likely. True, however, that outages are bound to occur when satellites and systems are switched off for a day or two as a plume arrives and engulfs Earth.


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## BobClay (Dec 14, 2007)

Somebody photoshopped the three largest sunspots onto the Sun together with their date years, including the one that is now passing over the Solar Horizon. Impressive when you consider the size of the Sun.
http://spaceweathergallery.com/indiv_upload.php?upload_id=103547


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## tunatownshipwreck (Nov 9, 2005)

RayL said:


> As I explained in #6, the situation is not the same now so damage to satellites and power grids should be less likely. True, however, that outages are bound to occur when satellites and systems are switched off for a day or two as a plume arrives and engulfs Earth.


I believe you, but I also believe a lot of utility companies will gamble with cost-cutting in protecting their infrastructure. Perhaps we'll see this in the next cycle.


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## BobClay (Dec 14, 2007)

Although quieting down for some time now the Sun decided to throw a wobbler yesterday with a UV and X ray flash from huge sunspot that cause HF blackouts over the Far East.
Pretty spectacular picture of the flash .....

http://www.spaceweather.com/


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## J. Davies (Dec 29, 2010)

BobClay said:


> Although quieting down for some time now the Sun decided to throw a wobbler yesterday with a UV and X ray flash from huge sunspot that cause HF blackouts over the Far East.
> Pretty spectacular picture of the flash .....
> 
> http://www.spaceweather.com/


I'm in Singapore operating a ham radio station. Yesterday was really quiet here. All bands were totally dead. Many amateurs are giving up the hobby due to record quiet sunspot activity during the last last solar maximum a few years ago. We have to wait 7 years until the next maximum but many scientists are saying that too will be a disappointment.

There are lots of broadcast stations here, mainly Chinese, Malaysian, Indonesian, Thai, Burmese, Lao, Vietnamese and and Cambodian. BBC has cut down a lot the past few years. Once the internet is well established they will all close one by one. The HF bands are going to be very quiet indeed.


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## BobClay (Dec 14, 2007)

The last few Solar Cycles have showed a marked decline in peak activity. If the trend continues some of the effects could be interesting.


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## tunatownshipwreck (Nov 9, 2005)

I remember the cycle beginning in 1976 was predicted to be at the same level as the preceding one (which wasn't all that spectacular), or lower, instead it was one of the best of the 20th century. In the summer of 1977 I was getting great reception of broadcasts from Europe to Africa on 25 mhz, coming around the south pole to the west coast of the USA (local daytime).


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## D1566 (Sep 7, 2009)

tunatownshipwreck said:


> One flare in 1989 knocked out most of the power in Quebec.


I bet they insisted that the blackout was only available in French


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## BobClay (Dec 14, 2007)

The peaks since 1976 up until the end of June this year .. quite a dramatic decline.

http://www.solen.info/solar/images/comparison_recent_cycles.png


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## BobClay (Dec 14, 2007)

Sliding toward a Solar minimum or not HF might be in for some stick over the next few days as colossal sunspots are bursting out of the Sun.

http://www.spaceweather.com/images2...anim.gif?PHPSESSID=iv748qal17h08j7u7fbf4kdup5

http://www.spaceweather.com/


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## BobClay (Dec 14, 2007)

Quite a bang .... 

http://www.spaceweather.com/


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## tunatownshipwreck (Nov 9, 2005)

BobClay said:


> Quite a bang ....
> 
> http://www.spaceweather.com/


Quite a surprise this close to a solar minimum, especially after such a weak solar cycle. Pity we can't see the aurora, due to forest fires all over the place.


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## BobClay (Dec 14, 2007)

Monster sunspot 2673 which caused strong auroras and HF fadeouts a couple of weeks or so ago has been transiting the far side of the Sun but is now coming around again. 

It looks like it's still active judging by those magnetic field lines ... 

http://www.spaceweather.com/images2...0171.jpg?PHPSESSID=a7g2duno2mk7mnu6bdkhdgkio2


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## tunatownshipwreck (Nov 9, 2005)

Weird.


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## BobClay (Dec 14, 2007)

I've never seen one of these. Got to be top of my bucket list. Who needs psychedelic drugs when you've got something like this to look at ... WOW

http://spaceweathergallery.com/indiv_upload.php?upload_id=139555


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## BobClay (Dec 14, 2007)

This picture on Spaceweather caught my eye. Taken from Invercargill, New Zealand on October 12th it shows the aurora very well, but what impressed me even more is that night sky !!!

WOW !!


Even where I am in North Cornwall I'd have to drive out of the village to get away from the street lights to see anything like that. 

http://spaceweathergallery.com/full...9205.jpg&PHPSESSID=8uamiv367bhuv8c9gibul4qu45


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## tunatownshipwreck (Nov 9, 2005)

BobClay said:


> This picture on Spaceweather caught my eye. Taken from Invercargill, New Zealand on October 12th it shows the aurora very well, but what impressed me even more is that night sky !!!
> 
> WOW !!
> 
> ...


Awe inspiring.


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## BobClay (Dec 14, 2007)

It's been a while since I've seen the southern skies (and a ship provided a wonderful view from the bridge wing) but I think those two star clusters to the left of the Milky Way are the Magellanic Clounds which sadly we can't see from the UK.

Two small satellite galaxies of our own and do they ever make for a view ! (Gleam)


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## BobClay (Dec 14, 2007)

The Sun might be approaching its quiet time, but it appears to be going out like James Cagney in 'Angels with Dirty Faces' if the auroras are anything to go by.

I haven't seen the Sun for three days now, just wind and rain. If it comes out tomorrow, I'll have to report it as a UFO and hope the RAF shoots it down. :sweat:

http://www.spaceweather.com/


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## 5036 (Jan 23, 2006)

A great website about it all here. Sunpot activity has been continuously recorded since the early 1600s.

https://www.windows2universe.org/sun/activity/sunspot_history.html


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## 5036 (Jan 23, 2006)

BobClay said:


> The Sun might be approaching its quiet time, but it appears to be going out like James Cagney in 'Angels with Dirty Faces' if the auroras are anything to go by.
> 
> I haven't seen the Sun for three days now, just wind and rain. If it comes out tomorrow, I'll have to report it as a UFO and hope the RAF shoots it down. :sweat:
> 
> http://www.spaceweather.com/


Many years ago a local wag ran into the canteen shouting "Aaaargh! Big yellow ball in sky!"


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## BobClay (Dec 14, 2007)

Believe me I know the feeling. If it doesn't come out tomorrow, I'm going to write to my MP !!! (Although he's about as useful as a pogo stick in a minefield.) [=P]


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## BobClay (Dec 14, 2007)

WOW, ... the Sun maybe spotless, but it's still able to generate amazing auroras ... 

http://spaceweathergallery.com/indiv_upload.php?upload_id=140843

http://www.spaceweather.com/


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## sparks69 (Dec 18, 2005)

We are all doomed !


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## J. Davies (Dec 29, 2010)

It does appear that we are entering another fifty year period of sunspot inactivity with massive solar flares. The last recorded was late 16th to early 17th century known as the Maunder minimum. 
We amateur radio operators are struggling. Compounded by rising levels of ambient noise from electrical devices, signals on HF are sinking lower and lower below the noise floor. The death of ham radio on HF seems imminent.


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## trotterdotpom (Apr 29, 2005)

BobClay said:


> WOW, ... the Sun maybe spotless, but it's still able to generate amazing auroras ...
> 
> http://spaceweathergallery.com/indiv_upload.php?upload_id=140843
> 
> http://www.spaceweather.com/


A trawler skipper told me that the Northern Lights were a sign of bad weather. I never worked out if he was right cos the weather was always crap.

I heard they had a few auroras down in Tasmania a few weeks back - don't think they're that common there.

John T


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## trotterdotpom (Apr 29, 2005)

J. Davies said:


> It does appear that we are entering another fifty year period of sunspot inactivity with massive solar flares. The last recorded was late 16th to early 17th century known as the Maunder minimum.
> We amateur radio operators are struggling. Compounded by rising levels of ambient noise from electrical devices, signals on HF are sinking lower and lower below the noise floor. The death of ham radio on HF seems imminent.


There's always trainspotting.

John T


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## BobClay (Dec 14, 2007)

Alas Train Spotting suffered from the _'Beeching Minimum'_ some years back. (egg)


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## Samsette (Sep 3, 2005)

trotterdotpom said:


> There's always trainspotting.John T


I would have thought that TGV and Bullet trains had lessened the popularity of that hobby. Unless you live on the Manchester to Southport line. You could get to know the crew on that one.


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## BobClay (Dec 14, 2007)

I think I'm going to have to go up North sometime and see one of these things, they seem to be getting more spectacular.

https://youtu.be/as6foAVe4-I


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## J. Davies (Dec 29, 2010)

Bob, I have seen the southern lights in the Antarctic south of New Zealand ("Lindblad Explorer)". They are visible as far north as Lyttelton. You-Tube doesn't do it justice, nor any big screen do***entary. It has to be seen to be believed. Good Luck !


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## BobClay (Dec 14, 2007)

Yes I've come to that conclusion … gotta seem them for real. (Thumb)


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## jimg0nxx (Sep 1, 2005)

Agree with that, saw them only once whilst at sea, on a trip from Canada to Hull north about. Unbelievably beautiful!


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## Dimples82 (Aug 24, 2014)

Thanks for posting - I was wondering what had been going on with the ionosphere (the TV getting regular head pains) in the morning and evenings, thanks for jogging my memory about sun spots etc :0))


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## sparks69 (Dec 18, 2005)

Amazing !


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## BobClay (Dec 14, 2007)

Since the weather today is pretty damn _Springlike,_ worth a look after the Sunset for the crescent Moon. It is very close to the red giant star _Aldebaran._ Find the Moon (very thin crescent) and look along toward 11 O Clock.

Interesting red giant star which is very BIG. And I mean *BIG.* (See pix below.)


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## BobClay (Dec 14, 2007)

With all this good weather and clear skies you can get an eyeful of planets of an evening. Just after Sunset Venus is very bright in the west, and Mercury is observable but not easy.

By midnight you have Jupiter in the southwest, followed by a bright Saturn and the Moon quite close together, then Mars rising in the southeast. 

All the inner planets and the two big ones of the outers. 

Quite a show.(LOL)


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## tsell (Apr 29, 2008)

BobClay said:


> With all this good weather and clear skies you can get an eyeful of planets of an evening. Just after Sunset Venus is very bright in the west, and Mercury is observable but not easy.
> 
> By midnight you have Jupiter in the southwest, followed by a bright Saturn and the Moon quite close together, then Mars rising in the southeast.
> 
> ...


Will I see 'em down 'ere, if I stands on me 'ead? 

Taff


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## BobClay (Dec 14, 2007)

tsell said:


> Will I see 'em down 'ere, if I stands on me 'ead?
> 
> Taff


That sounds like more spherical heresy to me !! 

But this might help:

https://in-the-sky.org/location.php


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## tsell (Apr 29, 2008)

BobClay said:


> That sounds like more spherical heresy to me !!
> 
> But this might help:
> 
> https://in-the-sky.org/location.php


Thanks, Bob, that's fantastic, I've been studying the link for the past hour and now I'm going to brave the freezing 15c temp outside to study the heavens. Hope the ants are in bed, but the cane toads will be out!! (Frogger)

Cheers,

Taff


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## Farmer John (Feb 22, 2012)

Can't see a blooming thing round here for the clouds of bats fuelling up after a bad start.

(This may be a slight exaggeration.)


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## BobClay (Dec 14, 2007)

Farmer John said:


> Can't see a blooming thing round here for the clouds of bats fuelling up after a bad start.
> 
> (This may be a slight exaggeration.)


Could have been the Bat Nebula …. :sweat:

http://eapod.eu/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/09_Bat_EAPOD_sRGB.jpg


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## tunatownshipwreck (Nov 9, 2005)

By the way, the first signs of the next solar cycle (#25) have begun to appear. New regions of reverse polarity, not yet forming as countable sun spots, have started appearing on the sun, and we should know later this year if sunspot minimum has occurred.


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## BobClay (Dec 14, 2007)

There's some thinking that the Sun might be entering another _Maunder_ style minimum as over the last few cycles the spot count has fallen quite dramatically.

These graphs show the trend:

http://www.solen.info/solar/images/comparison_recent_cycles.png


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## Troppo2 (Jun 25, 2018)

Just use FT8...you can laugh at sunspots...


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## tunatownshipwreck (Nov 9, 2005)

BobClay said:


> There's some thinking that the Sun might be entering another _Maunder_ style minimum as over the last few cycles the spot count has fallen quite dramatically.
> 
> These graphs show the trend:
> 
> http://www.solen.info/solar/images/comparison_recent_cycles.png


That seems to be the consensus, but we've had surprises in the past. Cycle 21, which began in 1976, was expected to be lower than the mild one before it, but turned out to be a strong one. If Cycle 25 is actually starting this year, it will be sooner than expected, and could be a strong one. I won't be placing money on either.


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## BobClay (Dec 14, 2007)

Well the Sun will do what it will do, and the rest of us have only really got one choice in the matter.

Grin and bear it !! … :sweat:


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## BobClay (Dec 14, 2007)

Worth noting that if you see a bright red light in the sky over the next few weeks … it could well be Mars.

On July 27th Mars makes its closest approach to Earth in 15 years. It will be the third brightest thing in the night sky after the Moon and Venus. It will even outshine Jupiter (many many times bigger than Mars … but much further away.)

Things to be careful of if you don't want to end up like Matt Damon growing spuds in sh1t:

Tripod machines.

Silver Locusts. (In reverse ?)

Weirdoes stepping out of old fashioned Police Boxes (he/she always tries to get in on the act.)

Strange cries of despair from lonely robots now roaming about on Mars … and who want to come home.

People who stand outside the pub and try to tell you they've just been abducted and experimented on. (Or at least, try to avoid whatever it was that they were drinking.)

:sweat:


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## sparks69 (Dec 18, 2005)

Talking of Mars. The Chief Steward bought a big box of MARS BARS, put them in the bond to sell once we were all desperate for some nutrition. Forgot all about them and when he did re-discover them when sailing down the Red Sea with very poor A/C sold them off as gooey messes. Still popular though.
Happy Daze !


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## BobClay (Dec 14, 2007)

A Scots cook would have deep fried them …


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## BobClay (Dec 14, 2007)

Friday night you'll not only get Mars in conjunction with the Moon, but also a total eclipse of the Moon at the same time (except you lot in North America, you've been naughty, so you wont see it.) :sweat:

http://www.spaceweather.com/


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## Varley (Oct 1, 2006)

How did you manage that that much dancing naked in the woods around the burning fire and bubbling cauldron? Where do you get your wool of bat?


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## BobClay (Dec 14, 2007)

Wool of bat is overrated, eye of newt gets you into trouble with Greenpeace, I use dripping of freshly slaughtered brontosaurus (not easy to come by I can tell you.) :sweat:


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## Dave McGouldrick (Jan 1, 2007)

Local butcher up here has it every wednesday morning. Usually a queue for it - specially during the school holidays........


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## BobClay (Dec 14, 2007)

Dave McGouldrick said:


> Local butcher up here has it every wednesday morning. Usually a queue for it - specially during the school holidays........


Deep fried of course. (Jester)


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## tunatownshipwreck (Nov 9, 2005)

BobClay said:


> Friday night you'll not only get Mars in conjunction with the Moon, but also a total eclipse of the Moon at the same time (except you lot in North America, you've been naughty, so you wont see it.) :sweat:
> 
> http://www.spaceweather.com/


Just as well, it's too hot here to even go out at night.


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## BobClay (Dec 14, 2007)

Looks like we'll be lucky to see it here also. Despite today being yet another _'burner'_ with wall to wall blue sky and horseflies the size of Lancaster Bombers, tomorrow's forecast looks to be cloudy, perhaps even rain.

Pity, because a close conjunction with Mars and a Lunar Eclipse practically on top of each other has to be a fairly rare event.

Ah well, if it rains at least the farmers will be happy … :sweat:


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## BobClay (Dec 14, 2007)

Interesting sunspot just popped up almost overnight and is now the size of the Earth. But it's polarity suggests it's part of the next Solar Cycle which is quite strange, given we're still approaching the minimum of the current cycle, which has been exceptionally quiet.

http://www.spaceweather.com/


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## Varley (Oct 1, 2006)

Well we struck lucky here. A wonderful day with friends in the garden with food cooked inside, outside. As for the conjunction of Mars and eclipses. It must have boded well as the excuse (croquet against my last boss's team) ended in victory for us.

Or could that have been a day late in arriving. This morning is 9 on the Beaufort scale of Grotty which will do the cars scattered around awaiting sobriety enabled collection no good at all. I have also seen a lone sandal soaking up the precipitation on the drive. At least it is not floating yet and I hope its partner will be able to encourage it to come back inside without me having to get wet.

I have always found the explanation for the Earths magnetic field unconvincing. Spinning ball of iron, fine but the source of the exciting magnetic field some thermally influenced material flow?

Were it not too easily measured to be missed I would have expected the excitation to be external, possibly from or including the Sun.

(I know. Turtles. Turtles all the way down).


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## Dave McGouldrick (Jan 1, 2007)

I've never found magnetic fields exciting. Mind you the way my life is now it makes Marvin look like the life and souls of the party(Cloud)


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## BobClay (Dec 14, 2007)

I haven't the capacity to be induced by electric jokes. (Oh dear, when I'm good, I'm bad ... but when I'm bad, I'm worse.) (Apologies to Mae for paraphrasing her line.) :sweat:

Magnetic turtles ... ? ... now there's a thought. (Smoke)


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## trotterdotpom (Apr 29, 2005)

BobClay said:


> I haven't the capacity to be induced by electric jokes. (Oh dear, when I'm good, I'm bad ... but when I'm bad, I'm worse.) (Apologies to Mae for paraphrasing her line.) :sweat:
> 
> Magnetic turtles ... ? ... now there's a thought. (Smoke)


Is that a gun in your socket?

John T


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## tunatownshipwreck (Nov 9, 2005)

BobClay said:


> Interesting sunspot just popped up almost overnight and is now the size of the Earth. But it's polarity suggests it's part of the next Solar Cycle which is quite strange, given we're still approaching the minimum of the current cycle, which has been exceptionally quiet.
> 
> http://www.spaceweather.com/


As I recall, this is what happened in 1977, that brought a good one.


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## sparks69 (Dec 18, 2005)

I can remember working GKA (I think) on 25 mHz (or was it 26 - can't remember).
QRY 1 was what made it most memorable.
Was that due to sunspots or lack of ?


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## BobClay (Dec 14, 2007)

I can't remember GKA ever working 25Mhz … mind you, I can't remember ever getting QRY 1 either. (Only joking lads … call off the hit men.) :sweat:


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## Ron Stringer (Mar 15, 2005)

Used to work GKI on 22MHz quite frequently during 1960s but never knew of any 25MHz marine band access to Portishead Radio at that time.
Perhaps it came about from the 1969 ITU WARC.


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## duncs (Sep 8, 2008)

Sunspots?, I didn't give a sh!t about them. All I wanted was a QSO with GKA. In the Pacific with O'span tx and R50M rx, who cared about what the sun and the moon were doing.
Re 25mhz, did anyone ever use it?.


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## Dave McGouldrick (Jan 1, 2007)

Used 25Mhz occasionally working Rogaland, usually crossband 22/25. From the Caribbean area if I remember, and once memorably from Great Australian Bight on RT.


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## BobClay (Dec 14, 2007)

Yep the Scandinavian stations were fond of it and remember tuning up to us it with them.

As for the Sun ? … well it pretty much controls HF propagation but you're right in so much you shouldn't care about it. Just grin and bear it.


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