# New Brighton Tower



## nick olass

I'll bet that hundreds of SN crew have sailed up and down the Mersey and are familiar with the 3 Graces, but how many of you are aware, that over the water at NEW BRIGHTON once stood a tower, similar, if not bigger and better than the one at Blackpool. I don't know all the facts, but that's where you old sea-dogs come in. Tell us all your stories, show us your pictures. Let's get all the facts.

Regards Nick


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## Steve Woodward

I believe it is THIS one


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## non descript

New Brighton Tower was a 567 feet (173 m) lattice-steel observation tower at New Brighton, on the Wirral Peninsula in England. Work began on 22 June 1896 and was completed four years later. Unlike the similar Blackpool Tower, the 1,000 tonne New Brighton tower had an octagonal cross section. The tower had a chequered history, six workmen were killed and another seriously injured during its construction. A young man committed suicide by jumping from the balcony shortly after the Tower's opening. On completion it was the highest building in the country.

A ballroom beneath the tower played host to many famous acts, including Little Richard and The Beatles.[citation needed]

The tower had a relatively short life. During World War I it was closed to the public and a lack of maintenance caused the steel superstructure to rust. Between 1919 and 1921 the tower was dismantled. The ballroom was destroyed by fire in 1969. The area where New Brighton Tower once stood has since been redeveloped as River View Park with a public playground, basketball hoops, football pitch and skate park.


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## non descript

Steve Woodward said:


> I believe it is THIS one


Yours is better Steve (Applause)


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## Bill Davies

Viewed many artists at the Tower in the early 60s. Apart from the Beatles and others, Wallasey had a few home grown artists such as The Undertakers who as a 'live act' were possibly the best on Merseyside. I am sure others might disagree.


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## Santos

No Bill, if you can read this, I cant disagree with you there, the Undertakers were a class act, I knew the drummer Bugs Pemberton very well.

Chris.


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## Scousegit

In the fifties and early sixties, there was the fairground towards the river complete with timber roller coaster, wall of death and a big slide. There was also a zoo, which even then was, to my mind awful, with the animals being confined to small cages with no chance of any exercise. On the prom Tommy Mann ran his steam trains, he was the first to go when it was moved to Southport. From then on the area began to decline rapidly, though in the sixties a cable railway of sorts was constructed to take people to the top of the tower building. I can remember it being quite hairy if there was a breeze and it look an awful long way down if something went wrong.

I was forbidden to go there on my own or with my friends, as my parents considered people there would be a bad influence unfortunately, for me, my Father found out once and that evening I received three whacks from his slipper on my botty and was sent to my room for the rest of the day for disobeying him.

Also in this vain there was large roundabout at the base of the tower building near to the lake, on one occasion, and this time the old man didn’t find out, we lads used to jump on it when it was running, that until I felt a sharp stinging sensation on my bottie, on looking round there was this old man standing there with a thin cane with which he wacked any freeloader on the roundabout.

I walk pass the area on most days and sometimes think about how alive it was, but times move on. The truth is late it had had its day and people wanted something different and certainly didn’t want to paddle in the mucky Mersey, amongst the Mersey trout and other detritus of life

So do I miss it certainly not, especially that bloody zoo!

Scouse.


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## nick olass

Hiya Scouse
Just read your post and smiled all through it; reading your words brought it all back to me, is the open air swimming pool still there? When you dived in, you dived out, even in the summer the water was freezing.
Thanks Steve, you made my day with your input.

Regards Nick


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## Steve Woodward

Tonga said:


> Yours is better Steve (Applause)


Ahh the power of Mr Google (Thumb)


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## Bill Davies

The Tower grounds was sure to hold attractions to young men. First and foremost there was a bar on the grounds 'The Lakeside' ( next to the lake..obviously) which served beer to anyone not wearing a school uniform.
Apart from the Tower Company who owned the grounds the main facility owner was a certain Bill Miller and another, lesser, Peter Catchpoole. Both were Wall of Death riders in their youth.


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## Pat Kennedy

My Father's employers, a local building firm named Gallimores, had a maintenance contract with both the Tower grounds company, and Wilkies indoor fairground further along the prom. Consequently, my Dad, as foreman brickie had lots of friends among the staff in both fairgrounds and me and my brother got loads of free rides of a Saturday morning when my Dad used to take us along to carry out inspections etc. Once, he put us on the big wheel while he discussed some drainage problems, and we happily stayed on it for over an hour! 
The roller skating rink mentioned earlier was a definite no go area as it was frequented by some of the worst elements, teddy boys and suchlike who armed themselves with chains and belts with big brass buckles and engaged in mortal combat.
Pat(Thumb)


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## Bill Davies

Pat,
Wilkie, there is a name I haven't heard of in years.
There was quite a colourfull bunch of people people associated with the fairground. Along the road were my parents lived was two Greek Ch. Engineers, Pastouna (corner Zetland) and Panagakin (lived on conspicuous house on corner Warren Drive and Ennerdale Road. The wives of these two Chiefs ran quite a little empire. Both Ch.Engs would always be home for the Summer season.
It was Panagakin who sowed the NBC seed as early as 62/63.

Bill


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## Pat Kennedy

Bill, 
The indoor fairground is still there and still run by the Wilkie family.
Next door is the rebuilt Floral Pavilion. I was there last night with my son, to see a performance of the Dixie Dean story, and thoroughly enjoyed the whole experience.(It was a Father's Day gift).
Give the Council their due, they have made a very good job of this theatre.
Regards, 
Pat


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## Macphail

*The happy danciing.*

Many a happy time I had in New Brighton, 1955 to 1957, “The birth of rock and roll”.
Trained up on how to dance at the “Greenbank School of Dancing”, then off to the tower, Les Brown and his band of renown, in the photograph attached, all went on to have a seagoing career . Alan Marsh, David Bremner and John Clark, photograph taken at the tower, June 1956.

John.


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## Bill Davies

Macphail said:


> the *“Greenbank School of Dancing”, *
> John.


On 'Strouds Corner' next door to the 'Little Ginny' (Little Brighton)

Bill


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## nick olass

Phew, you lot are brilliant, I'm not too good on my legs these days, but I feel like I've just had an hour of the floor at the tower, happy days.
I used to live on the other side of the water; getting the ferry over there, seemed to make it all the more of an outing.
Is the open air swimming pool still there?

Regards Nick


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## Bill Davies

Anyone remember the 'Kraal' , the Creep. The Witches Cauldron?


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## makko

nick olass said:


> Is the open air swimming pool still there?
> 
> Regards Nick


I believe the New Brighton Baths are no more, nor the Derby pool. I don't know about the Hoylake one either. Come on Pat, info required!
Dave


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## Bill Davies

Last time I was in the New Brighton outdoor baths and the Derby pool was probably early 50s. Lasting memory of the Derby pool was that no matter the ambient temperature the water was cold. And I mean cold!

Bill


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## Santos

Dave,

There is not one outdoor pool left on the Wirral. New Brighton, Derby Pool, Hoylake, ( that site is the new Lifeboathouse ) West Kirby, New Ferry, & Port Sunlight all gone forever. The Council are even try to close the Guinea Gap indoor pool.

Chris.


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## nick olass

Bill Davies said:


> Last time I was in the New Brighton outdoor baths and the Derby pool was probably early 50s. Lasting memory of the Derby pool was that no matter the ambient temperature the water was cold. And I mean cold!
> 
> Bill


Bill
You are wrong, the water was not cold, it was bloody FREEZING.
We used to have a race to get in the water, you know, last one in stinks.
I was crafty, I let them all jump in, then watched them all come out,10 times faster, with their teeth chattering. I'm really smiling now, because it seems like only yesterday. Memories, fantastic. 
Thanks Bill and all you others who have revived wonderful echoes of the past.

Nick


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## makko

Third year at St. Georges, Mr. Gordon's class 3G in the "hut", we, the whole class, used to retire to the Derby pool after school. Great times, but the water was FREEZING! The only warm water was in the cascades (mushrooms) at the shallow end. We used to jump off the 12m board, akin to landing on concrete! With the money left over, you could buy a mini flake or ice cream but not the whole 99. I would often walk home the long way with my mates through Wallasey Village rather than through the dunes and the footpath coming out by Our Lady of Lourdes.
Rgds.
Dave


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## Bill Davies

makko said:


> *Our Lady of Lourdes.*
> Rgds.
> Dave


Is that on the corner Gardenside/Leasowe Road?. 

Brgds

Bill


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## Pat Kennedy

Bill Davies said:


> Is that on the corner Gardenside/Leasowe Road?.
> 
> Brgds
> 
> Bill


Bill, 
Thats correct, it was my parish church when we lived in Leasowe back in the 1970s.
As Santos said, the council are proposing to close Guinea Gap Baths after spending several hundred thousand pounds upgrading it a few years ago. This was where hundreds of Blue Funnel trainees were taught lifesaving techniques. Denis O'Brien marched us over there from Odyssey works every Thursday morning for a two hour session in the pool. I believe catering boys and engineering and deck middies had the same programme.
Pat


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## Bill Davies

Pat,

What I find difficult to understand is the Penny Bridge fiasco. Was it 10 years ago it was closed for quite a while while being 'upgraded'. No sooner was that completed when they filled in the adjacent Bidston Dock . They must be a bunch of 'jokers' in that Town Hall.

Bill


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## makko

Yes, Bill, Gardenside and Leasowe Road. My "hood"! We did our lifesaving at Byrne St. Baths. Advanced Survival with liferaft etc wet drill was at I.M. Marsh.
I am still shivering remembering the Derby water! Captain America is your man for info on the pools.
Rgds.
Dave


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## john g

Santos said:


> No Bill, if you can read this, I cant disagree with you there, the Undertakers were a class act, I knew the drummer Bugs Pemberton very well.
> 
> Chris.


Bugs Pemberton went to school with him in Wallasey....is there a long lost connction here? john g


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## Pat Kennedy

Bill, 
I am convinced that this was a deliberate ploy by the then Mersey Docks and Harbour Authority.
There was some history of animosity between Wirral Borough Council and the MDHC over the dock crossings. Several years ago one of the four bridges was stuck in the 'off' position for over a year while Wirral MBC and the MDHC wrangled over whose responsibility it was to repair. Eventually Wirral councill did the job, but I heard that hard feelings ensued, and when the council proposed to upgrade the Penny Bridge, the MDHC kept quiet about their own plans to fill in Bidston Dock.
Now Peel Holdings own the docks and apparently have a better relationship with the council. 
In the long term the two bodies are working on a very large scale scheme to gentrify the whole dock estate. The scheme is called Wirral Waters and looks good on paper. 
My view is to go for it because as things stand, the docks are barely used any more by commercial shipping.
Regards, 
Pat


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## Santos

John g

Bugs went to the Tech, now Mosslands I went to another school but knew him through other means. His Dad played piano in the Grand Hotel if I remember rightly.

Chris.


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## Santos

Pat,

Re the Penny Bridge - I have heard that in view of the fact it had so much money spent on it, repairs and updates to its machinery, there was a proposal that it was to be removed and taken to Liverpool where it was to replace a similar bridge in the Alexandra Dock complex. A permant land bridge was to replace it in Wallasey Bridge Road. Dont know if this is still on the cards.

Chris.


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## Pat Kennedy

makko said:


> Yes, Bill, Gardenside and Leasowe Road. My "hood"! We did our lifesaving at Byrne St. Baths. Advanced Survival with liferaft etc wet drill was at I.M. Marsh.
> I am still shivering remembering the Derby water! Captain America is your man for info on the pools.
> Rgds.
> Dave


Dave, 
Byrne Avenue baths in Rock Ferry is another casualty, now closed down by our council, a bunch of bean counters who know the cost of everything and the value of nothing.
They recently put a logo on the back of every council vehicle which says, "Wirral has heard the cry of the earth".
Nobody has the faintest idea of what it means, but it was rumoured to have cost about £100.00 per vehicle and they have a couple of hundred vehicles on the road. 
This at the same time as they close down half the baths and libraries in the borough.
You made the right decision by going to live in Mexico,
Regards, 
Pat


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## nick olass

Lads, the thread was about the tower, but I'm chuffed that I've provided a talking shop for you all. I really am enjoying you all reminiscing, carry on.

Nick


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## degsy

I well remember New Brighton baths, although never went there that often, it was a temperature issue. In ones formative years one was constantly aware of, shall we say, male shrinkage caused by immersion in cold water. There was also the matter of the ache. Not a pleasant experience(EEK). Had an experience in Anglesey when the kids where young, now the waters around Anglesey can be Bloody COLD. I waded in up to just below the knees and my ankles started aching, being an ex seafarer hearts of oak and all that. I made the decision that was the only part of my anatomony that would ache that day, and resolutely marched back up the beach. My son Tom, who is reasonably successfull with the fairer sex, would play for hours in the sea. However shrinkage is not a topic I think I could discuss with him(Jester)


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## norman.r

I feel I have to add my own little bit to this thread. In the days when I was young and fancy free in the late forties and early fifties the Tower Ballroom was the place to go on a Saturday night. Also the place for the Wallasey crowd was the Derby Pool at Harrison Drive while the New Brighton baths were for the visitors. I do remember going to the New Brighton baths one time at Easter and I can remember to this day how it was a wee bit chilly.
Norman


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## TonyAllen

On the wall at home we have a large photo of my mum and dad,dad in his best suit and trilby mum with a fox fur on her shoulders both dressed to the nines they had been to New Brighton tower and the photo was on the pier walking back to get the ferry to Liverpool.They loved going to New brighton and would take us kids in the summer time and to save money we would walk from seacome and we were knackered on the way back,not quite about the tower but hey thats the memories that stick Regards Tony Allen


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## Bill Davies

Tony,
Did you ever grace the stage of the Tower to exhibit the guitar skills taught to you by Norman Wong!!

Bill


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## Pat Kennedy

I learned to swim in New Brighton baths when I was seven, and my Dad jumped in the deep end holding me in his arms, then released me and swam right behind me until we reached the shallows. After that I could swim unaided. He would probably have been kicked out of the pool by today's pool attendants, but that was the way most of us learned to swim in those days, and I taught my own kids in much the same way. All are strong swimmers, and love the water.


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## TonyAllen

Bill.yes I did quite a few times with a group called The Blue Mountain Boys and also the floral pavilion and many clubs on the wirral and then on to Butlins in 1961.our claim to fame was that we were the first group to record from liverpool . it was not a great hit here but sold well in ausi and the far east and then we were voted best country band 1962 but at the presention night the beatles did a song called please please me and that was the end of the blue mountain boys as far as I was concerned. they were younger and had a lot going for them,took my career in a different direction and form a double act with my wife and travelled the world working for a german agency and the american forces including the far east while they were at war 
and so on sorry to ramble on a bit all becouse of the tower Regards Tony


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## tom roberts

When on the Empire Halladale 1955 went the tower funfair met a girl who I married in 1959 Margaret OKeefe she lived in Huyton took her home and had to walk back as Imissed the last bus a long way to Bidston dock we were together for seven years when she passed away,so the tower has happy memories for me and the long walk back to the ship was the road to 7yrs of of a wonderfull if so short a happy marriage


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## nick olass

What was that contraption in the fair, you got in, it started revolving, then the sodding floor dissappeared from under your feet, and, we used to pay to get in it, bonkers. I suppose we were all a bit crazy back then, but wasn't it fantastic.

Regards Nick


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## Bill Davies

nick olass said:


> What was that contraption in the fair, you got in, it started revolving, then the sodding floor dissappeared from under your feet, and, we used to pay to get in it, bonkers. I suppose we were all a bit crazy back then, but wasn't it fantastic.
> 
> Regards Nick


On the New Brighton fairground it was known as the 'Rota'.


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## Santos

That *ROTOR* was owned by my Uncle and Grandfather and I worked there as a lad at weekends for my pocket money. Half a crown for Saturday and Sunday inclusive - 10am to 6pm - I was not allowed to work after 6pm becuase it was too rough. (Jester) 

Chris.


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## Pat Kennedy

Bill Davies said:


> Anyone remember the 'Kraal' , the Creep. The Witches Cauldron?


Bill, 
I remember the Kraal, but was never in it. I have no memory of the witches cauldron, but the Creep Inn, that was in the cellars below the indoor fairground mentioned earlier, and I went there often with a good mate Rick Harnott who was the master of a seismic exploration barge the last time I saw him. 
Now that was one good seaman, as were his brothers Brian and Dougie, and before them, their Dad , also Rick, was a Blue Funnel Bosun, pre-war.
Pat


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## Franktheboat

*new brighton tower*

all of whats been said is true .

i myself youst to go dancing in the tower , the band at that time 1959 

was a mr bill gregson i can still hum his signature tune , the local pubs
were the lakeside the r a f pub round the back was the algerian ,
the riverview ,also round the back was the TOWER CLUB, in victoriaroad 
was the FERRY HOTEL , SHIP INN , YORK INN , RAILWAY, PERCH ROCK 
COMMERCIAL and one more wich i forgot


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## Bill Davies

This is all very interesting!
I seem to recall close by the 'Rota' I mentioned in #42 there was a ride called the 'Rock & Roll' - Norman & Ingrid (another former LADY Wall of death rider).
Up the steps and the Ghost train on your right.


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## Thats another Story

Bill Davies said:


> Tony,
> Did you ever grace the stage of the Tower to exhibit the guitar skills taught to you by Norman Wong!!
> 
> Bill


IS THAT THE SAME NORMAN WONG BOUSON FOR BLUE FUNELL BILL?


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## makko

Bill Davies said:


> This is all very interesting!
> I seem to recall close by the 'Rota' I mentioned in #42 there was a ride called the 'Rock & Roll' - Norman & Ingrid (another former LADY Wall of death rider).
> Up the steps and the Ghost train on your right.


Would that be Ingrid Johanssen, Bill? I played rugby at school and New Brighton RUFC with her son, Erik. The elder brother was Adam if I remember correctly. My mother had been at school with Ingrid in Poulton.

Rgds.
Dave


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## Bill Davies

JOHN PRUDEN said:


> IS THAT THE SAME NORMAN WONG BOUSON FOR BLUE FUNELL BILL?


John,

Indeed it is. I sailed with Norman in the late 50s when we were ABs together.
I learned, through this site,that he subsequently changed his surname to Morley in the 70s. Norman was very agile and a superb seaman. I got on well with him.

Brgds

Bill


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## Bill Davies

makko said:


> Would that be Ingrid Johanssen, Bill? I played rugby at school and New Brighton RUFC with her son, Erik. The elder brother was Adam if I remember correctly. My mother had been at school with Ingrid in Poulton.
> 
> Rgds.
> Dave


Dave,

I cannot confirm that. Her married name was McGonigal and they lived around by the Magazines.

Brgds

Bill


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## Santos

Bill Davies said:


> Dave,
> 
> I cannot confirm that. Her married name was McGonigal and they lived around by the Magazines.
> 
> Brgds
> 
> Bill


No they didnt Bill, they lived in a flat in Albion Street, next door to what is now the Beach Patrol HQ.

Norman McGonigal died of a brain tumour in the late 60s and Ingrid left to live in America I think, her real name was Ada Roberts - Ingrid was her Wall of Death name. She had a sister Dorothy who worked for Bill Millar on his kiddies rides. Ingrid returned a couple of years back to visit but has now, as far as I know, left the UK again.

Chris.


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## Pat Kennedy

Santos said:


> No they didnt Bill, they lived in a flat in Albion Street, next door to what is now the Beach Patrol HQ.
> 
> Norman McGonigal died of a brain tumour in the late 60s and Ingrid left to live in America I think, her real name was Ada Roberts - Ingrid was her Wall of Death name. She had a sister Dorothy who worked for Bill Millar on his kiddies rides. Ingrid returned a couple of years back to visit but has now, as far as I know, left the UK again.
> 
> Chris.


Chris, 
Ada Roberts doesn't quite hack it for the Wall of Death! Ingrid is much better.
I remember the Tower fairground very well. When I was about 13, I was a Red Cross cadet, and of a weekend I was stationed at the First Aid Post adjacent to the Lakeside Pub with a couple of adult first aiders. I used to deal with minor cuts and scrapes and so on. Sometimes we would get an influx of black eyes and bloody noses especially on the 12th July when the Liverpool Orange Lodges would have their day out in New Brighton.
I also had a job selling programmes in Vale Park, and the Floral Pavilion for the Brass Band Concerts. So, I was pretty much steeped in New Brighton as a boy.
Regards, 
Pat


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## TonyAllen

Pat My son lives in New Brighton and he loves it ,takes his 4year old to the prom most days, my salt water days must be in his blood he watches ship movements and bells me to let me know whats what.Tony


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## Pat Kennedy

Tony, 
I'm down there myself most days, if work allows, I always try to park up on the Kings Parade and have my lunch while watching whatever is on the River or in the docks. Its a good place to live and to bring up a family.
Regards, 
Pat


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## Santos

Pat Kennedy said:


> Chris,
> Ada Roberts doesn't quite hack it for the Wall of Death! Ingrid is much better.
> I remember the Tower fairground very well. When I was about 13, I was a Red Cross cadet, and of a weekend I was stationed at the First Aid Post adjacent to the Lakeside Pub with a couple of adult first aiders. I used to deal with minor cuts and scrapes and so on. Sometimes we would get an influx of black eyes and bloody noses especially on the 12th July when the Liverpool Orange Lodges would have their day out in New Brighton.
> I also had a job selling programmes in Vale Park, and the Floral Pavilion for the Brass Band Concerts. So, I was pretty much steeped in New Brighton as a boy.
> Regards,
> Pat


Hi Pat,

Yes I earned most of my pocket money there as a lad working for my grandad and uncle. Days of the Teddy Boys and bycycle chains and razors. My Mum didnt like it, and neither did my Dad who was a Bobby in New Brighton, but my Grandad said it would be the making of me and it certainly helped toughened me up, Got in a few fights trying to stop people getting on the ride for free up the back steps, it was 6p for children and a shilling for adults.
Happy days, by the way Ingrid was lovely both in looks and nature.

Chris.


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## Pat Kennedy

Chris, 
It was a marvellous childhood, having all the fun of the fair on your doorstep plus having ocean liners steaming past every day, plus the beach, the donkey rides, the boat trips, and the huge influx of visitors every summer.
My parents had a boarding house and we had people staying every week of the summer from far off places like Walsall and Leeds and Sheffield. All were generous to my brother and me, taking us out with them to keep their own kids company, and giving us 'spends'. 
An idyllic time.
Do you remember the Festival of Britain celebrations in 1950? They had a squadron of MTBs come roaring up the river at full sea speed and we are all on the beach! Everyone was swamped by the wash, it was brilliant! 

Regards, 
Pat


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## Santos

Hi Pat,

I remember all the ships in the River lit up at night and coloured lights everywhere - going along New Brighton promenade and everyone was happy and laughing including my parents. Pity it cant be like that today, everyone enjoying themselves without drunkeness and violence.

Chris.


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## Pat Kennedy

Very true Chris, 
Although I suppose distance lends enchantment to the view.
Regards, 
Pat(Smoke)


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## nick olass

Santos said:


> Hi Pat,
> 
> I remember all the ships in the River lit up at night and coloured lights everywhere - going along New Brighton promenade and everyone was happy and laughing including my parents. Pity it cant be like that today, everyone enjoying themselves without drunkeness and violence.
> 
> Chris.


It seems to be, kareoki, kareoki everywhere you go now; it would not be so bad if the people 'singing' could actually sing, but this mostly is not the case. Where have all the upright pianos gone. There was a time, when it seemed every front parlour had one. We all knew we were rubbish singers, but somehow, infinately better than the kareoki set of today.

Nick.


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## Bill Davies

Scousegit said:


> Also in this vain there was large roundabout at the base of the tower building near to the lake, on one occasion, and this time the old man didn’t find out, we lads used to jump on it when it was running, that until I felt a sharp stinging sensation on my bottie, on looking round there was *this old man *standing there with a thin cane with which he wacked any freeloader on the roundabout.
> 
> 
> Scouse.


I think you are describing Stanley Crighton. Supposedly born on that ride when owned by his mother and subsequently passed into Bill Miller ownership.


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## Scousegit

I was in a certain supermarket four miles distant, this morning reading the papers and magazines as I do, when I came across a new illustrated book on Wallasey and New Brighton by my good friend Ian Collard. It is mainly pictures but there are a good few of the New Brighton and the Tower area.

It has also been mention about the baths. The New Brighton pool was eventually destroyed in the storm of February 1990, when a drain became blocked and burst. This undermined the wall around the pool resulting in many thousands of tons of sand filling the pool area to one side, The Riverside cafe and ballroom were also totally destroyed that afternoon with seas flowing through it into the pool.

I was standing on the other side of the promenade next to the lifeboat station taking pictures of all the destruction and the amazing sight of the tide flowing along the prom filling all the dips and the car park next to the baths as it went, by this time it was a force 11 going on 12 I should think. The Mona’s Queen still made the crossing though but was a couple of hours late. At this point the lifeboat was brought out on its trailer and taken to the front of the bath so the caretaker and his family could be evacuated from their flat above the front entrance to the baths. At the same time they were also trying to pull the shutter's off the entrance, I did not know that at point the water level inside the baths was some 5 to 6 feet above the road level, indeed, I was latter shown some pictures taken by the caretaker and all that could be seen above the water level were the tops of the hand rails to the water slides.
The baths were eventually demolished and the site has been left vacant until now anyway. This autumn I hope work will start on new facilities much to the chagrin of some, dare I say it, selfish locals who seem to want the mess, nay pigsty, that has been New Brighton for the last twenty or thirty years, to remain. 

Scouse.


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## Roger Harrison

Mention of New Brighton Wall of Death sparked the increasing failing memory. Before I left Oldershaw at 16 and joined Athel Line, used to visit the Tower Grounds - I seem to recall (and I'm not inferring anything) that the girl rider was always called "Dirty Ada". I also recall that the Owner was a guy called Catchpole (I think) and a few years later got involved in (trying to) buy New Brighton FC.

Mention was also made of a few jazz players - a couple of my class-mates at Oldershaw attained some fame in jazz - Roy Penney (he with the stutter) and Alan Williams (think that was his christian name) No idea what happened to them both. 

Roger Harrison


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## Bill Davies

Roger,
The name of Peter Catchpole has been mentioned previously. The only woman Wall of death rider i remember was a certain Ingrid who was married to a Norman McGonigal.
As for music and the school you mention, I remember an excellent instrumental band from that school by the name of 'The Matadors' who were regulars about town. They were supposedly the youngest band on merseyside 12-15, unbelievable! A little aside, I heard Ringo Starr was still taking drum lessons from a Wallasey lady drummer (Ivy Benson) as late as 64.


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## Santos

Bill Davies said:


> Roger,
> The only woman Wall of death rider i remember was a certain Ingrid who was married to a Norman McGonigal.





> =Santos Norman McGonigal died of a brain tumour in the late 60s and Ingrid left to live in America I think, her real name was* Ada Roberts *- *Ingrid was her Wall of Death name.* She had a sister Dorothy who worked for Bill Millar on his kiddies rides. Ingrid returned a couple of years back to visit but has now, as far as I know, left the UK again.




Yes Roger, Ingrids real name was *Ada *as I previously posted, I dont know where the prefix came from, because visually and in person, she was far from it and a very nice girl.

The one big problem that Bill Davies has by using his ' ignore button ' is that he cannot see the replies of those he is ignoring, therefore he goes on to make such posts as the one above having totally missed my above reply in blue and other replies, made a lot earlier, which dosnt do him any favours, mind you he wont know about this as he wont be reading this post. This just goes to show the pointlessness of using the ignore button, it makes you look stupid, unless of course, you cant stand people disagreeing with you. It just negates the whole point and purpose of SN.


Chris


----------



## Bill Davies

Roger,
Excuse these installments but I was thinking more about Peter Catchpole (poole) and although I have no memory of the FC business he did develop a night club adjacent to the Tower called the 'Pink Elephant' (in partnership with Bill Miller). I think it was under the auspices of Millpoole Enterprises. Which, as I right seems to have sorted out the pole - poole ambiguity.
I had a lot of time for Bill Miller.

Bill


----------



## Pat Kennedy

Peter Catchpoole became a Wall of Death entrepreneur. He went into partnership with Ken Fox who is owner of one of only two surviving wall of death shows in the UK. 
They built a new 'wall' in the shipbuilding hall in Cammell Laird's in 1995 and took it on a world tour. The partnership lasted until Peter Catchpoole died in 2002. 
The Ken Fox wall of death is based near Ely in Cambridgeshire.


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## Bill Davies

Well Pat,

Is there no end of your knowledge and well known memory.

I seem to remeber Peters parner was called Ursula, subsequently took a pub in Moreton called the Farmers Arms

Brgds
Bill


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## Pat Kennedy

Roger Harrison said:


> Mention of New Brighton Wall of Death sparked the increasing failing memory. Before I left Oldershaw at 16 and joined Athel Line, used to visit the Tower Grounds - I seem to recall (and I'm not inferring anything) that the girl rider was always called "Dirty Ada". I also recall that the Owner was a guy called Catchpole (I think) and a few years later got involved in (trying to) buy New Brighton FC.
> 
> Mention was also made of a few jazz players - a couple of my class-mates at Oldershaw attained some fame in jazz - Roy Penney (he with the stutter) and Alan Williams (think that was his christian name) No idea what happened to them both.
> 
> Roger Harrison


Roger, 
Oldershaw school seemed to have been a hotbed of musical talent at that time.
You will probably remember Ray Woods and Dave Jeacock who formed a band which had some success locally. They had a permanent gig at the Temple Bar in Dale St during the sixties. Dave lived in Valkyrie Road just by the school gates.
Sadly both Ray and Dave died tragically young
Regards, 
Pat(Thumb)


----------



## Bill Davies

Returning to the musical theme. I travelled up to Birkenhead about 18 months ago to see a band at Pacific Road. The band was 'Night Train' and the saxophonist was Brian Jones (Undertakers) and the Guitarist was Ian Hunter ( ex Valkyries) St Anselms band of around 59/60. Ian was probably in your class Pat.

PS: Pat, It was your mention of Valkyry Road that prompted this post


----------



## Pat Kennedy

Bill Davies said:


> Returning to the musical theme. I travelled up to Birkenhead about 18 months ago to see a band at Pacific Road. The band was 'Night Train' and the saxophonist was Brian Jones (Undertakers) and the Guitarist was Ian Hunter ( ex Valkyries) St Anselms band of around 59/60. Ian was probably in your class Pat.
> 
> PS: Pat, It was your mention of Valkyry Road that prompted this post


Bill, 
Now this is where my fabled memory has gone absent without leave.
Brian Jones of course, I remember him and the Undertakers well, particularly Chris Houston who I knocked around with. But Ian Hunter... I have no memory of the name at all.
BTW I believe the Council are proposing to dispose of the Pacific Rd theatre.
Pacific Rd is apparently so called because PSNC used to load their ships there pre-war.
Regards, 
Pat


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## Bill Davies

That is not good news as they have had a few good acts in recent years such as John Williams and Germaine Greer.


----------



## Pat Kennedy

Bill, 
Germaine Greer?
What does her act consist of?
Is she something like Dame Edna without the jokes?
Pat


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## Bill Davies

Following the release of the book Captain and Commander (I think a movie was made of same -Mel Gibson) she toured using that book as a theme for her chat. Continually referring to the foc'sle as a fossle. She was corrected very quickly!


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## Pat Kennedy

Bill, 
I remember she was very scathing about some other literary woman a few years ago, referring to her "f*** me shoes", the first time I have ever heard that expression. 
I did file it away for future use but to date have had no occasion to do so, mores the pity.
Pat


----------



## peter johnston

hi guys! good memories .....the little cafe at the end of new brighton ,opposite the old outside baths .has a lovely pic of cunards "Carinthia" on one of its walls..not much of a reminder of the hey days of one of the busiest ports in the world..sad to say! but at least new brighton is getting the "Coney Island" spruce up treatment ! regards


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## Bill Davies

I believe the cafe you refer to was owned by a Mrs Farrell whose three sons all went to sea and all tragically died in their 50s.


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## K urgess

I think you mean "Master and Commander - The far side of the World" filmed with Russell Crowe, Bill.
I have great difficulty in picturing Germaine Greer understanding the last thing about Jack Aubreys' world. (?HUH)


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## Bill Davies

Exactly. She was using the feminine arguement with that book as the basis.
I knew the actor was from Aussie.


----------



## makko

More music trivia - Elvis Costello also went to Oldershaw.
Rgds.
Dave


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## Pat Kennedy

Makko, 
Did he really?
I had no idea he was from round here. I saw him once, he was touring with Santana, but I didnt pay him much attention. Somehow I thought he was Irish.
Regards, 
Pat


----------



## sidsal

My brother is in the fur trade 
What - fur coats and all that ?
No - New Brighton fur ground
This was bandied about to illustrate the Scouse accent !!

I have a photo from the Nat Maritime Museum of Brocklebanks MAIHAR anchored in the Mersey , heavily laden and rust stained. It was taken on D-day 1945 having just arrived from the US. In the background is the mass of Mew Brighton's Tower Ballroom.


----------



## Bill Davies

sidsal said:


> My brother is in the fur trade
> 
> I have a photo from the Nat Maritime Museum of *Brocklebanks MAIHAR anchored in the Mersey , heavily laden and rust stained*. It was taken on D-day 1945 having just arrived from the US. In the background is the mass of Mew Brighton's Tower Ballroom.


So no change from when I started noticing them from 55 onwards1


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## Pat Kennedy

Bill, 
I always thought Brocks looked rather smart. For me, the epitome of rusting ships was Caltex, I never saw one that wasn't rotting away quietly, undisturbed by chipping hammers, scrapers and paint.
Regards, 
Pat


----------



## Bill Davies

Pat,

Of all the Liverpool companies Brocks was the one whose ships just did not appeal. I can remember nothing special about them. Maybe if I would have taken the trouble to walk aboard and look around things may well have been different. Everyone to their own!

Brgds

Bill


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## Roger Harrison

Elvis Costello is a big Tranmere fan - seen him there more than once.

Another snippet about Oldershaw - George Clooney is listed as a former pupil. Yes - the real one - apparently he was an exchange student for several months. Seems he was a bit of a "wush" at that age - according to a school web-site posting. 

Roger Harrison


----------



## sidsal

Bill and Pat:
Brock ships in my day were well maintained but pretty basic. The MAIHAR for instance had no running water - you fetched water for washing yourself from the galley. There were no fridges either - just ice boxes. The officers had a "Compenium" in their cabin - a basin that folded away and there was a tin can underneath to accept the dirty water. You then emptied it over the side and had to be careful to go the the lee side. 
When after ww2 some of the ships had a "punk-louvre" blown air system fitted it was considered sheer luxury. 
However there was a great camaraderie among the staff which was disipated when the "efficiency experts" and accountants arrived. Happy days !
Everything is relative, in those far off days I sailed with older chaps who had to provide their own bedding - and there were sellers on the docks of "donkey's breakfasts" as they were known - sacks filled with straw.
Despite the modern comforts I think those days had more going for them than the souless industry that appears to be with us now.


----------



## Bill Davies

Sid,

Well understood. However, you have to undrstand I was comparing them to China Boats of my day (55-61) and in hindsight I suppose that was a little unfair. On reflection I am sure they were OK.

Brgds

Bill


----------



## Bill Davies

Roger Harrison said:


> Elvis Costello is a big Tranmere fan - seen him there more than once.
> 
> Another snippet about Oldershaw - George Clooney is listed as a former pupil. Yes - the real one - apparently he was an exchange student for several months. Seems he was a bit of a "wush" at that age - according to a school web-site posting.
> 
> Roger Harrison


Roger,

I do not recall Oldershaw having a Rugby team of any note but as in other areas they obviously excelled. That Instrumental band from Oldershaw i referred to in an earlier post were something else. Close your eyes and you would think they were The Shadows.
Was Oldershaw a mixed school??


----------



## makko

Yes, Bill. Oldershaw was mixed. Their rugby team was not very good (we beat them 54 - nil in about 77 or 78). However, a couple of good lads from Oldershaw joined NB RUFC Colts. Then again, Anselm's weren't much to write home about either!! Ha-Ha! I do remember that Oldershaw did have a good music department - Several good musicians in the Wirral Youth Orchestra. We used to play jazz with Mr. Scott (trumpet player) after rehearsals. I studied piano to Grade 8 and played double bass at school and in the Orchestra. Unfortunately, when studying for my O-Levels, there were conflicts in scheduling and I concentrated on rugby and judo as extracurricular activities: My musical days were over! I played rugby until I was 39 here in Mexico. I practiced judo until I was 44. I am now nearly 47. My daughters mean that I cannot "grow old", retirement does not look like it will be an option!!
Regards,
Dave


----------



## Roger Harrison

Dave (Makko) 

We seem to be going way off topic here but what the hell. 

Maybe by late 70s Oldershaw Rugby was on the slide - but in 50s there were some good sides - even though the school only comprised 320 boys overall - up against some schools with 1200-1500 to choose from.

The team of 1951 took all before them. I got my Rugby 1st.XV colours in 1956
before toddling off round the world. We were taught from 1st.Year never to be overawed by size as invariably all opponents were bigger with their greater population. It was hard work in my position as Hooker. Good camaraderie within the Oldershaw Rugby crowd which exists to this day. Several times a season the Club put on a free lunch buffet at Belvidere for the "oldies". 

By the way, the school was not mixed as such - Boys and Girls attended morning assembly several times a week - together (but well segregated !) but all lessons etc. were then fully independent of each other. Up until late 50s at least. Married one of them ! 

Roger Harrison


----------



## makko

Hi Roger,
Great nostalgia here! Yes, totally off thread! I started playing rugby at St. Georges. Being a "big lad" (tall) I was a first choice for the second year team in first year. I even played a few times with my brother in the third year team. It was Colin Bruce that got me into rugby and set me on my way to weight training (He used to complain about my "sparrow chest"!). No harm done, I owe a lot to Brucie. My brother was a disciple of Mr. Sanderson who eventually found his place at Henry Meols (Wallasey Grammar) whom we regularly trounced!!!! 
I was never fast off the blocks but ran a mean 200m. St. Georges cleaned up at the Oval in about 75-76. I was accused and cleared of being over age!! When I met Erik Cox (Ex Oldershaw) at Mosslands (Wallasey Tech.) I was blown away by his speed (below 11 secs. for 100m). A great team mate and a great guy! 
Just a thought, we might finally be back on thread.
Regards,
Dave


----------



## Bill Davies

If we are talking rugby there was perhaps, no better than John Lander (x Anselmian) and I have my suspicion he ended up teaching at Henry Meols in the late 70s/early 80s?


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## Pat Kennedy

I remember Jim Harty as being a rugger player of note at St Anselms, I believe he played for New Brighton RFC as an adult.
I played rugby at St Anselms, but without any notable distinction, I disliked the game, preferring soccer, but St Anselms did not countenance that particular sport.
We played against Wallasey Grammar School, Birkenhead School, Calday Grange, St Edwards, SFX, West Park, and St Mary's in Crosby, but I do not remember playing against Oldershaw. 
Regards, 
Pat


----------



## Peter (Pat) Baker

When I was at Oldershaw Grammar School, Wallasey, it was certainly not "mixed" in the true sense of the word.
In those days it was Oldershaw High School for Girls and Oldershaw Grammar School for Boys.
We where in the same building but strongly segregated.
As for the rugby team, as it was wartime we could not buy a strip but had to use whatever clothes we had.
We did have a RAF Cadet corps, which most of us joined.
Peter (Pat) Baker.


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## Bill Davies

Pat Kennedy said:


> *I remember Jim Harty as being a rugger player of note* at St Anselms, We played against Wallasey Grammar School, Birkenhead School, Calday Grange, *St Edwards,* SFX, West Park, and St Mary's in Crosby, but I do not remember playing against Oldershaw.
> Regards,
> Pat


Well regarded player. St.Teds were always formiddable. Must have been all that scouse they ate.

Brgds

Bill


----------



## eldersuk

Remember playing against both Oldershaw and St. Anselm's while at Rock Ferry High in the 40s.

It should be remembered that St. Anselm's was where Austin Healey first played rugby.

Derek


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## Roger Harrison

Pretty sure Jim Harty played for England when New Brighton were a 1st.Class Side and Cheshire won the Counties Cup. Nearest to an England cap after Harty was Don Staniford but think he only made the Trials. Did his cartilage same day as me at Reeds Lane and both ended up at Bhead General. I recovered and subsequently played again. Don was finished. Knew him from Barnston Lane, and then used to see him regularly Friday nights in Alacadoo, West Kirby.

Roger Harrison


----------



## Bill Davies

Does the name Rudd (Old Anselmian) ring any bells to you 'rugga types'?


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## Bill Davies

There used to be a small mock Tudor (memory) building located on the front between the Tower Grounds and the Magazines called Mother Redcaps.
I can never remember it actually functioning and wonder does it still stand.
I believe it had some history wrt pirates, lanterns on donkeys tails etc.


----------



## makko

Mother Redcaps burnt down. Something else was built on the site. We went in with the Old Phoge in the seventies. There was a large stone compass rose in the garden. We also toured Vyners on Bidston Hill and Leasowe Castle where we found a priest hole and passage behind a mirror.
Regards,
Dave


----------



## Pat Kennedy

Mother Redcaps was a cafe when I was a kid, but as Makko stated it burned to the ground sometime in the 70's.(A New Brighton curse, all these fires in business premises)
The site was derelict for a while,then a nursing home was built there, also named Mother Redcaps. By all accounts a pleasant, well run place.
There were supposed to be tunnels running from Mother Redcaps to the Red Noses, the sandstone rock formation to the West of New Brighton, and to a location near Guinea Gap to the South East. These tunnels were said to have been constructed by smugglers and wreckers in the 17th century.
Whether or not these tunnels ever existed is a moot point, but the stories added to the fascination of the place which I felt as a young boy.
Pat


----------



## nick olass

Hi Pat

You've added some spice to this thread, smugglers tunnels, I love it.
It seems that smugglers caves and tunnels are reserved only for Cornwall and the like, but the Mersey, brilliant, I can't wait to see where this will take us.

Nick


----------



## makko

Hi Nick,
Wallasey was famed for its "wreckers", infamously led by one vicar of St Hilary's. It is interesting to read the names of american sailors and their fate in storms of Mockbeggar wharf in St. Hilary graveyard. Then there is the Bidston Moss, reputedly with a footpath across marked by whale ribs. My Nan (RIP) was born in Stone Cottages in Wallasey Village and was aware of all the myths! BTW, Wallasey comes from "Island of the Welsh or Foreigners" as before the docks were built, the sandstone ridge would be cut off by the Wallasey Pool, Bidston Moss and Leasowe Leas becoming waterbound. Denizens of Wallasey still (as far as I know!) have the right to graze livestock on Moreton Common! You can take the man out of Wallasey but not Wallasey out of the man!
Regards,
Dave
In Mexico City!


----------



## nick olass

Makko 
Thank you for that; you and all the other lads have painted such a graphical picture of the Wirral Peninsular, I don't recognise the map anymore. Keep it coming, smugglers, pirates, dubloons, brilliant.

Nick


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## Bill Davies

It used to be possible to walk from Seacombe Ferry along the prom to Harrison Drive and a further coastal walk to Hoylake and thence West Kirby and beyond. Is this still possible?


----------



## Scousegit

Indeed it is and cycle as well and to enter or leave Wallasey you also have to cross water at some stage.

Scouse.


----------



## tricky2lu

Great stuff !
I moved to Wallasey around 1962 from London where i had met up with a beat group from wallasey called 'The Vampires' they had come to London to try and make the big time but although very popular around the wirral found the scene in London too tough .....one day they said hey would you like to come back with us and manage us ....so i did .....loved it up there i really did i lived with the family of the lead singer Dave Hughes in Trafalgar Road Wallasey for around two years....and that is how i came to join the merchant navy !
Sitting in the local pubs and hearing all the tales of the fun to be had on passenger ships from the Cunard boys i thought i fancy a piece of that so
applied to Cunard who said no....DEVASTATED 
Back in the local one of the lads who i was friendly with said try P & O !
So i did and they said ...YES 
Joined 'Orcades' at Tilbury docks (what a depressing place) later served on
'Arcadia' my fav such a happy ship and finally 'Orsova' 
Without a doubt the best days of my life 
If anyone remembers 'The Vampires' or Dave Hughes the lead singer would love to hear what happened to them


----------



## Pat Kennedy

tricky2lu said:


> Great stuff !
> I moved to Wallasey around 1962 from London where i had met up with a beat group from wallasey called 'The Vampires' they had come to London to try and make the big time but although very popular around the wirral found the scene in London too tough .....one day they said hey would you like to come back with us and manage us ....so i did .....loved it up there i really did i lived with the family of the lead singer Dave Hughes in Trafalgar Road Wallasey for around two years....and that is how i came to join the merchant navy !
> Sitting in the local pubs and hearing all the tales of the fun to be had on passenger ships from the Cunard boys i thought i fancy a piece of that so
> applied to Cunard who said no....DEVASTATED
> Back in the local one of the lads who i was friendly with said try P & O !
> So i did and they said ...YES
> Joined 'Orcades' at Tilbury docks (what a depressing place) later served on
> 'Arcadia' my fav such a happy ship and finally 'Orsova'
> Without a doubt the best days of my life
> If anyone remembers 'The Vampires' or Dave Hughes the lead singer would love to hear what happened to them


I have heard of the Vampires, and indeed they have been mentioned on another thread on this site, possibly 'Liverpool watering holes'.
I used to drink in the Nelson in Trafalgar Rd, The Primrose, at the top end of that road in Withens Lane, and on a Friday night, the 'Little Welly' at the bottom end. That was a sailor's pub, and the nearest thing to Betty's Bar in Wallasey. So, more than likely our paths have crossed.
Regards, 
Pat(Thumb)


----------



## Bill Davies

I too remember 'The Vampires' (Chris Williams??). They like 'The Matadors' (Coker-Florists) were another band from the Oldershaw school, were they not?

Pat, the 'Little Welly'? Another I never visited but like 'The Saddle' knew of its existance.

Bill


----------



## Bill Davies

Pat,
Here is one for your well known memory.
Half way down Wheatland Land (Gandy Belt) you have St.Pauls Road on left going directly to Seacombe Ferry. There are several roads on the right, Percy, being one. half way down one of these there was a terraced House on the right that used to be a Pub (front living room only). Had a Yates (not the wine) light outside. Forget Catons etc. This was an ordinary terraced house. The land lady was in her80s in the early 60s. I am thinking it may have been licenced in a similar way to a Pub in Leintwardine( Close to me now) which was the last pub of its type in England .


----------



## Pat Kennedy

Bill, 
I do remember that house,but I was never in it. I think it was in Palatine Road, and I believe she only had a licence to sell beer, no wines or spirits, similar to the Lighthouse in Wallasey Village up to about 1964.
As for the Little Welly, well it was a raucous kind of pub and fights would often break out, but I had some good times in there.
Catons, I was only in there once, at eight o clock in the morning and it was jumping! but the clientele left a lot to be desired. One visit was enough.
Pat


----------



## Bill Davies

A little off thread. We have just lost a piece of history down this way Florence Lane 'Flossie' the 94 year old landlady of the Sun Inn at Leintwardine past away a few months back. Now that pub was unique.
An old favourite of mine. Try 'googleing' it.


----------



## Pat Kennedy

Bill Davies said:


> A little off thread. We have just lost a piece of history down this way Florence Lane 'Flossie' the 94 year old landlady of the Sun Inn at Leintwardine past away a few months back. Now that pub was unique.
> An old favourite of mine. Try 'googleing' it.


She sounds a real character Bill, a bit like Nora Batty ? But was the ale any good? the obituary doesnt give that impression.
I have never been to that place, nor heard of it until now, but I have stopped off for a meal at Craven Arms a couple of times. A pleasant part of the world.
Regards, 
Pat


----------



## Bill Davies

The Ale was nothing to write home about but there wre plenty of characters and none knew an anchor from a propeller.

Craven Arms is where I service the Tractors. They know how to write Invoices around there.
Bill


----------



## Bill Davies

Scousegit said:


> Indeed it is and cycle as well and to enter or leave Wallasey *you also have to cross water at some stage.*
> 
> Scouse.


Are you sure?


----------



## Pat Kennedy

Bill Davies said:


> The Ale was nothing to write home about but there wre plenty of characters and none knew an anchor from a propeller.
> 
> Craven Arms is where I service the Tractors. They know how to write Invoices around there.
> Bill


I was at a place yesterday called Cholmondeston, on the Shropshire Union Canal near Nantwich. A very long stretch from the sea, but I had a conversation with a very knowlegeable girl in the marina stores about eye splices in wire, rope fenders constructed with half hitches, and sacrificial anodes. I thought to myself, ' I could live here'. A lovely place.
Regards, 
Pat


----------



## Bill Davies

Was that your narrow boat I noticed in the Gallery?

It is indeed a levely place to live Pat but you know, I still have a soft spot for Wallasey and whenever, I visit my daughter in Caldy I never fail to drive along Warren Drive.


----------



## Pat Kennedy

Bill Davies said:


> Was that your narrow boat I noticed in the Gallery?
> 
> It is indeed a levely place to live Pat but you know, I still have a soft spot for Wallasey and whenever, I visit my daughter in Caldy I never fail to drive along Warren Drive.


Bill, 
I wish; I just took the photo. However, I have the beginnings of a plan to sell the house and buy a narrowboat to live on when I finally do retire. My only caveat is I have a workshop full of woodworking equipment which would have to be abandoned, a hard choice.
Pat


----------



## tricky2lu

Bill Davies said:


> I too remember 'The Vampires' (Chris Williams??). They like 'The Matadors' (Coker-Florists) were another band from the Oldershaw school, were they not?
> 
> Pat, the 'Little Welly'? Another I never visited but like 'The Saddle' knew of its existance.
> 
> Bill


Incredible ! memories of 40 plus years ago !!

Indeed Chris Williams was in the band played Lead Guitar and lived in Marlowe Road the bass player was Dave Cooper formerly with "The Undertakers" who
replaced him with Jackie Lomax and went on to bigger and better things !
The drummer was Ray Clegg who lived in Hoylake and lead singer was
Dave Hughes who i lived with in Trafalgar Road ....Anyone know what happened to these guys ?

We used to have a Sunday night residency at a Club/Pub somewhere 
close to the river mersey in Seacombe anyone remember what the place
might have been called ?

Getting back on topic i used to visit the Tower often and saw all the big
gigs there during 1962 to 1964 when i then left and ran away to sea !

Have great memories and fondness for that part of the world and having 
travelled now all over the world the people there are simply the best

Would love to get back for a visit 

Richard


----------



## Pat Kennedy

Richard,
That club/pub you mention may have been the Navy Club at Egremont Ferry which was a good place but was demolished many years ago.
There was another club in Demesne St closer to Seacombe , the name of which I forget but others here will remember.
Regards, 
Pat


----------



## Bill Davies

Richard,
Memory! How's this. Chris Williams had a Watkins Joker Amp (Red) with an integrated Watkins Copycat Echo. The Matadors had Vox AC30s (there lead guitarist did anyway) with a Binson echo and this was a 'bone of contention' (rivalry). Right or wrong?


----------



## tricky2lu

Bill

When i met up with the Vampires i was working in Soho and had connections with various managers and agents at the time ....they were living in there
minibus in Soho Square and we first met in a cafe nearby

They told me they were down from merseyside and looking for work i said i
think i may have something for you !

I was friendly with Mickie Most at the time and the family had recently arrived
from South Africa and his mother had started a basement club in Carlisle Street called 'The Ready Steady Go Club' after the tv show and that was where the group made there bid for the big time !

They had come with better gear than you mentioned but that was to be expected if you wanted to have a go at being famous

I never knew the Matadors but almost every street in Wallasey had a band when i returned with them to Wallasey after they ran out of money and were feeling a little homesick

They said to me hey you wanna be our manager ....so having wanted to see what life was life was like on merseyside said yes and went back with them in there minibus

And so a couple of years of great times evolved until............

We had been doing regular gigs in Portmadoc in Wales where the Hughes family were from when while returning from Wales one sat night we had dropped the drummer Ray Clegg at his home in Hoylake and were making 
our way back to Wallasey when the minibus skidded on a bend in the road
somewhere near Moreton and rolled over and crashed into a lampstandard
which crashed on top of the van......we were all ok as the equipment packed in the back saved us.....But we had a gig the same night Sunday ! We made it by using my little Ford Popular to collect the gear and take it to the gig

But with no van and no money to buy another sadly that was the begining of the end of the band....and as i was the driver that night .....it soon became time to move on .....hello P & O

It would be nice to here what happened to those guys they were great lads

Richard


----------



## John Williams 56-65

Pat Kennedy said:


> Richard,
> That club/pub you mention may have been the Navy Club at Egremont Ferry which was a good place but was demolished many years ago.
> There was another club in Demesne St closer to Seacombe , the name of which I forget but others here will remember.
> Regards,
> Pat


Pat; Nice that someone else remembers the Navy Club in the old Egremont Ferry Building. I spent many an enjoyable Saturday night in there and remember many of the old Liverpool comedians performing there, some of whom went on to become quite well known. I can`t swear to it but I am almost certain I first saw and heard Ken Dodd in there. This was of course long before he became famous. Happy Times.


----------



## Bill Davies

Richard,
It has just dawned on me that around this time there was a band in Wallasey named 'The Karacters' two girls, blonde and brunette(singers) with the usual guitar line up. They used a hearse, which many people associate with The Undertakers'. The interesting thing here is that the blonde was a certain Bev Fraser whose father was well known and had sea going connections. He was VC or something like that I am really not too sure.


----------



## Santos

In the 'The Karacters' the blonde was Myra Grayson, Bev Fraser was the brunette and unfortunately died a couple of years ago. I knew her pretty well. Her father was Ian Fraser VC -of the midget submarine XE3, he sank the Japenese Cruiser *Takao* and both he and his diver, Leading Seaman James Joseph Magennis were awarded the VC , unfortunately Ian Fraser died last year.

With me being on his ignore list, BD wont see this, perhaps someone would be so kind as to steer him to the correct facts. Many thanks.

Chris.


----------



## Bill Davies

tricky2lu said:


> Bill
> 
> But with no van and no money to buy another sadly that was the begining of the end of the band....and as i was the driver that night .....it soon became time to move on .....hello P & O
> 
> It would be nice to here what happened to those guys they were great lads
> 
> Richard


Richard,

Can't help withe vampires but one of the members of The Matadors was apprentice with me on Kayes (ex Conway and son of a well known Wallasey business man). Only managed six weeks and packed it in.


----------



## Roger Harrison

Back to the Wallasey Music scene I see. How many remember the Empress Club in New Brighton over one of the fun arcades on Victoria Road. Used to go there every Friday and Sunday nights 1960s onwards when I was up for my tickets or on leave. Some good groups on there. We were always first in (free pint) and last out - amazingly used to have 8 pints - then drive home to Moreton in my Triumph Mayflower !!! 
I can't recall the Club Owners name - not the best looking guy in the bunch
and he had a small oil/fuel supply business in Eastham village.

Roger Harrison


----------



## Pat Kennedy

Santos said:


> In the 'The Karacters' the blonde was Myra Grayson, Bev Fraser was the brunette and unfortunately died a couple of years ago. I knew her pretty well. Her father was Ian Fraser VC -of the midget submarine XE3, he sank the Japenese Cruiser *Takao* and both he and his diver, Leading Seaman James Joseph Magennis were awarded the VC , unfortunately Ian Fraser died last year.
> 
> With me being on his ignore list, BD wont see this, perhaps someone would be so kind as to steer him to the correct facts. Many thanks.
> 
> Chris.


Chris, 
I met Ian Fraser many years ago when his company, Universal Divers, were doing some work on a ship in Birkenhead docks. They needed some equipment unloading and he approached me because I was driving a mobile crane at the next berth. I unloaded his stuff and he slipped me a tenner. a very pleasant chap.
Regards, 
Pat(Thumb)


----------



## Bill Davies

Roger Harrison said:


> Back to the Wallasey Music scene I see. How many remember the Empress Club in New Brighton over one of the fun arcades on Victoria Road. Used to go there every Friday and Sunday nights 1960s onwards when I was up for my tickets or on leave. Some good groups on there. We were always first in (free pint) and last out - amazingly used to have 8 pints - then drive home to Moreton in my Triumph Mayflower !!!
> I can't recall the Club Owners name - not the best looking guy in the bunch
> and he had a small oil/fuel supply business in Eastham village.
> 
> Roger Harrison


Empress Club! Was that over what became 'The American Bingo' owned by the Hammer brothers?

Bill


----------



## Bill Davies

*The Sun Inn, Leintwardine*



Bill Davies said:


> A little off thread. We have just lost a piece of history down this way Florence Lane 'Flossie' the 94 year old landlady of the Sun Inn at Leintwardine past away a few months back. Now that pub was unique.
> An old favourite of mine. Try 'googleing' it.


For those members who take the Times you will see an article about this very pub. The men in the photograph in fact ran the pub 'Flossie' was more ornamental although quite vocal if you upset her which I did (surprised!) on a number of occasions.


----------



## jj richards

wasn,t the club called THE CREEP.


----------



## Bill Davies

jj richards said:


> wasn,t the club called THE CREEP.


The Creep was located in the basement of the indoor fairground (Wilkie).
At weekends would often drift along the prom the The Creep after last orders in the Magazines or Sandridge.

Bill


----------



## Pat Kennedy

I just found an excellent site which is the work of Mike Kemble, who is a member of SN. It has ahistory of Mother Redcap's, and photographs, plus New Brighton Tower and tales of the wreckers.
The link is; http://www.mikekemble.com/mside/redcap.html
Regards
Pat


----------



## Santos

Thanks Pat,

Very interesting, I remember Mother Redcaps before it was demolished, wish the Council had restored it, rather than demolish it, could have been a real earner for them and a piece of Wallasey history retained. Oh yee of little foresight.

Chris.


----------



## Pat Kennedy

Chris, 
having worked for the Metropolitan Borough of Wirral for over twenty years, I can safely say that although they may be accused of many things, possessing foresight is not one of them.
The motto of WBC should be 'Expediency Rules'.
Regards, 
Pat(Smoke)


----------



## Bill Davies

Pat,
what was the rationale behind the Penny Bridge renovation!


----------



## Pat Kennedy

Bill, 
As I like to say when anyone asks me a hard question these days,
" Its no good asking me, I'm only a simple plumber"
Regards, 
Pat


----------



## Santos

Bill Davies said:


> Pat,
> what was the rationale behind the Penny Bridge renovation!


The old one was becoming worn out and unsafe - nobody knew of the plans to fill in Bidston Dock when the bridge was earmarked for rebuilding.
Chris.


----------



## Bill Davies

Pat,

Stop putting yourself down. If things are as bad as you say there is probably no one in the WBC who knows.

Brgds

Bill


----------



## Pat Kennedy

Chris, 
What you say is true to a point, but, I heard that MDHC knew, and they didnt tell anyone.
Pat


----------



## ROBERT HENDERSON

Pat
I can recognise some of the landmarks you guys are discussing as we came in and out of the Mersey on the Everard tankers, mainly to Bromborough dock, I find it very interesting thread even though I am not familiar with the shore side of the area. Just onne question, does Moreton Cross come under the Wirral.

Regards Robert


----------



## Pat Kennedy

ROBERT HENDERSON said:


> Pat
> I can recognise some of the landmarks you guys are discussing as we came in and out of the Mersey on the Everard tankers, mainly to Bromborough dock, I find it very interesting thread even though I am not familiar with the shore side of the area. Just onne question, does Moreton Cross come under the Wirral.
> 
> Regards Robert


Robert, 
Yes it does, Moreton is a suburb of Wallasey and Moreton Cross is the junction of four main roads at the centre of it.
Bromborough Dock, by the way, featured in last week's episode of Coast on BBC TV, a very good segment on the history of the dock, clips from its' heyday, and aerial shots of its present incarnation as a landfill site, plus a practical demonstration of how to make soap from palm oil.
Despite what its critics say, there is nobody that can touch the BBC for programmes such as these.
Regards, 
Pat(Thumb)


----------



## ROBERT HENDERSON

Pat
I cannot remember any bars near Bromborough dock, but I am sure we must have visited some, we would sometimes take Palm Oil to Bromborough, discharge (my job as 2nd mate) clean tanks and wait for the whalers to come and anchor in the river, sometimes there were six or seven Everard takers lightening the big ships untill they could dock.
The reason I mentioned Moreton Cross was I sailed with an Everard Master from there who invited me out with him and his family one weekend, we all went to a family pub in Port Sunlight. His name was Mike Carr, he left Everards and I believe bought a small tug or salvage vessel and worked around the Mersey area.

Regards Robert


----------



## Pat Kennedy

Robert, 
This very question came up last year on a thread started by the late (and sadly missed) Arthur Jenner, in which it was stated that there was a pub outside the gate at Bromborough Dock.
Well I didnt recall one, so I drove over there and had a mooch around and found that probably the closest pub is the Bridge Inn in Port Sunlight, about a mile away. It is a large imposing pub and a very pleasant one the last time I was in there. It is in the centre of Port Sunlight village, which was built by Lord Leverhulme for his employees at the nearby soap factory.
Regards, 
Pat


----------



## eldersuk

The nearest pub to Bromborough Dock is the Bridge Inn in Port Sunlight Village, a pub I frequented quite a lot (which means far too much!!) in my teens.

Until sometime in the 60s it only opened six days a week because of the first Lord Leverhulme's religious beliefs.

Derek


----------



## ROBERT HENDERSON

Thanks Pat, that is probably where I went with Mike Carr and family.

Regards Robert


----------



## Bill Davies

Roger Harrison said:


> !!!
> I can't recall the *Club Owners name *- not the best looking guy in the bunch
> and he had a small oil/fuel supply business in Eastham village.
> 
> Roger Harrison


I have the name Ernie in my mind and he drove a large box shaped Rover. The most well known club owner about was a John Stanley (Kraal, et al). I never knew him but his presence was always there (tall bearded). From memory he lived in the Road parallel to Ennerdale. PK will know the name.

Bill


----------



## Bill Davies

Sunningdale Road (I went onto Autoroute)


----------



## Roger Harrison

Bill you may be right - Ernie rings a bell. Yes I can picture John Stanley - I think he was partnered in the Kraal with Don Staniford (who I mentioned in an earlier post about rugby) Don and I had "interests" in 2 sisters - he married one who recently passed away) Don had many interests such as the Greave Dunning in Greasby, Staniford & Gaskell Drum Makers opposite Lairds and also a large newish place Aerocontainers or something similar) near to Park Station. 

I think John Stanley also owned the pub on Seabank Road in Egremont just north of the Town Hall - pretty grotty place I recall. 

Roger


----------



## Bill Davies

Roger Harrison said:


> I think John Stanley also owned the pub on Seabank Road in Egremont just north of the Town Hall - pretty grotty place I recall.
> 
> Roger


Roger,

Brighton Street is hardly the location you would take your mum. When did the Egremont Ferry cease operating?

Bill


----------



## Scousegit

The Eggie Ferry is still going strong and there are no pubs on Seabank Road.

Scouse.


----------



## Bill Davies

Scousegit said:


> The Eggie Ferry is still going strong and there are no pubs on Seabank Road.
> 
> Scouse.


I was referring to the Ferry itself!

Brgds

Bill


----------



## makko

Didn't the Egremont Ferry cease at the end of the 60's? They did attempt to restart it in the mid 70's but it never got past the planning stage.
I stand to be corrected.
Dave


----------



## Bill Davies

Dave,

It must have been pre war. I don't remember it in operation.

Brgds

Bill


----------



## makko

Wasn't it in operation on a seasonal basis, sort of like New Brighton? Wasn't the pub at Egremont Ferry once called "Davey Jones' Locker"?

As eerie as that one near Crewe (where's the Uni?), the "Headless Woman". Prior to returning to Mexico, when we went up to see Nana & Gaga, I would tell the kids to keep a sharp watch for "her"!

Dave


----------



## Bill Davies

Dave,

'The Headless Woman' is on the A51. Closer to Chester (Tarporley??) than Crewe.

Bill


----------



## makko

Thanks Bill. Is it J20 off the M6? Next is Congleton/Holmes Chapel. Another way we would go is M1 to A50, Uttoxeter etc., through Stoke and then M6 or A500.
It is odd, if we went via Holmes Chapel, No.2 daughter would always want to be sick in exactly the same spot just after Northwich on the straight before the Blue truss bridge! (Not far from Ledsham/Taporley).

I always get a "twinge" once I hit the M53! More so once the Anglican Cathedral and St. Hilarys are visible.

Regards,
Dave


----------



## Bill Davies

Dave,

I think it is evident that Wallasey has a great pull on us all. I am in Caldy once a month visiting my daughter, and I nearly always drive along to New Brighton, Bayswater Road, Warren Drive etc and thence drop back down onto the prom and back to Shroppie. One day I'll try a pint of Davenports (if the Nelson is still run by that Brewery) and one in The Sandridge (September 66 was the last time and the place was bursting with 'China boat' men, shore and seagoing).

Brgds

Bill


----------



## Pat Kennedy

Bill and Dave, 
Egremont Ferry I believe stopped operations in 1946 when the pier was hit by a coaster and was deemed to be beyond repair.
The Navy Club on the site of the ferry terminal building became Davy Jones Locker before it was finally demolished sometime in the eighties,( I think)
The Headless Woman... This is a bit weird, I've been in it twice for lunch in the last two weeks, and yes its on the A51 Nantwich Road.
I think the pub Roger referred to on Seabank Rd, could well be the Brighton on Brighton St almost opposite Wallasey Town Hall, and it was indeed a grotty dump the last time I was in it. There are no more pubs along Brighton St/King St/Seabank Rd/Rowson St until you hit the Prom at New Brighton.
Bill, I had a drink in the Sandridge a few months ago, but sadly no evidence of its maritime past. A link to a very informative pub guide which includes the Nelson is ;
http://www.pub-explorer.com/merseyside/pub/nelsonwallasey.htm
Regards, 
Pat


----------



## Bill Davies

Pat,
In the early 60s the Sandridge was run by Bert Mills (RSM ret'd). The Parlour would be the place where the men in Navy trilby's and Gaberdine macks drank whilst other made so with the bar. I remember one evening, 62ish, drinking with Paddy, Billy Carmody, Jack Cleary, Butch Mason and Dennis O'Brian. I was Second Mate but felt very much the AB I was when I sailed with these men. 

Brgds

Bill


----------



## davidrwarwick

Pat
There is a pub at the junction of Tobin St, Brighton St and King St it used to be a bank in fact I think it is called Stanley's Vault and John Stanley did have something to do with it. I have not been in it but it looks a bit rough.

Dave


----------



## Bill Davies

David,
Your not a builder are you?
Back in my Wirral days there was a high profile builder who did much work in Wallasey. 

Bill


----------



## davidrwarwick

Bill,
No I'm not a builder but I know of the firm you are thinking of, I have lived in Wallasey all my life except for a 6 year spell in the Merch.

Dave


----------



## Bill Davies

Dave,
I assumed you were of a MN background as the owner of the firm is a David Parsons. They did that large development facing St.Mary's College , Wallasey Village if memory serves.
Bill


----------



## Pat Kennedy

Dave, 
I missed that pub on the corner of Tobin St on my mental journey from the Town Hall to the prom. It was a bank as you say until a few years ago then became a pub. I've never been in it, but it looks a bit unsavoury. One good thing I noticed while driving past it though is that someone takes the trouble to polish the old night safe, it is always gleaming.
regards, 
Pat


----------



## Bill Davies

Pat,

It is a wonder the night safe has not been 'nicked'.
I know the place you are referring to as they have 'old peoples homes' on the other corner. I seem to know these things.

Bill


----------



## Pat Kennedy

Bill
This John Stanley has one or two other pubs in Wallasey. One of them is called Stanley's Cask and it is in Seaview Rd near to Asda. My son drinks in there and says it is a very pleasant pub. Another one is adjacent to the Nag's Head in Rake Lane, I cant recall the name, but its a short walk from the Sandridge.
Regards, 
Pat


----------



## Roger Harrison

Dave - I was just about to post that the pub I referred previously was on the corner of Tobin Street which leads down to the Eggie Ferry. The memory is getting a bit fuzzy as I await a late-arriving spring in Western Australia. I ought to have remembered Brighton Street etc. as I used to run my ships spares and equipment business from the premises half-way down Tobin Street on the left (before relocating to opposite Hoylake Station). Only went in the referred puib once, but must admit to a few sessions down the bottom of the road - especially when you can watch the ships go by ! 

My 2 sons run the business now but in a newish unit at Bromborough. Although British Owners have albut disappeared, the Ship Management business is alive and kicking, especially in Glasgow. Even TK has relocated at least a couple of dozen ships to be managed from Glasgow instead of Vancouver, OSG (which evolved from Maritime Overseas and also took over the old Souters) run over a hundred ships from just north of Newcastle. Liverpool still lagging, but Bibby/Meridian evolving into bigger Management enterprises. 

Roger


----------



## Bill Davies

Today I noticed a thread re 'Titanic' and thought of the owner of this ship. I was always of the opinion that Ismay lived out Thurstaston way.

Bill


----------



## Pat Kennedy

Bill Davies said:


> Today I noticed a thread re 'Titanic' and thought of the owner of this ship. I was always of the opinion that Ismay lived out Thurstaston way.
> 
> Bill


That is true Bill, 
Ismay lived in a house called Dawpool in Thurstaston, it was demolished in the 1920s.
Regards, 
Pat


----------



## Bill Davies

Facing the Cottage Loaf there is a sandstone wall that goes on forever bordering quite an estate. I always thought there might be a little local 'license' in the story and he had visited there and the visit grew into he lived there. Interesting!
Hope he did not leave any Gas and Electricity bill Pat.


----------



## makko

Pat Kennedy said:


> That is true Bill,
> Ismay lived in a house called Dawpool in Thurstaston, it was demolished in the 1920s.
> Regards,
> Pat


Quite an interesting history: 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Ismay

Rgds.
Dave


----------



## Bill Davies

Thanks for that. 
And to this day I was never sure thinking it was local make believe. And further, I drive past it every month to visit my daughter.


----------



## Pat Kennedy

Bill, 
Heres a link to a site about this house, including a photograph.
http://lh.matthewbeckett.com/houses/lh_cheshire_dawpool.html
I doubt that there was a gas or electricity supply to this isolated spot in those days, they probably had oil lamps and big roaring coal fires, and an army of servants to keep them going.
I believe the house was built on the estate you mention, just adjacent to the church.
It is a vast estate, somebody has a racehorse stud farm down the road from there. At the bottom end of Station Road and off towards Caldy is the Dee Sailing Club. I sometimes go birdwatching down there, and an old plumbing colleague has a caravan there where I can call in for a cup of tea. 
A very pleasant place. 
Pat
.


----------



## Chas York

Well! 

Nostalgia indeed - I came across the name of an ex girlfriend from 1960-61... later singer in Karakters - one Myra Grayson. Silly me finished with her, and she linked up with a mate Mike Jackson, married him. Saw her once with cousin Helen, Angie Plat and others in the Red Cat Greasby back in 1983 that was first time since 1964 when she travelled via Grove Road Station where I worked while waiting to go to sea as Radio Officer.

Anyone know whereabouts of Myra nowadays please? cant find her on facebook - would be nice to say hello to her!

Oh and anyone remember the Kraal???

Cheers!


----------



## john g

Chas York said:


> Well!
> 
> Nostalgia indeed - I came across the name of an ex girlfriend from 1960-61... later singer in Karakters - one Myra Grayson. Silly me finished with her, and she linked up with a mate Mike Jackson, married him. Saw her once with cousin Helen, Angie Plat and others in the Red Cat Greasby back in 1983 that was first time since 1964 when she travelled via Grove Road Station where I worked while waiting to go to sea as Radio Officer.
> 
> Anyone know whereabouts of Myra nowadays please? cant find her on facebook - would be nice to say hello to her!
> 
> Oh and anyone remember the Kraal???
> 
> Cheers!


 Kraal was owned by a guy called John ? Stanley.....it later became the Golden Guinea with a licence ! and gaming upstairs.The Kraal was pretty basic had a soft drinks bar and a "hand bag counter" for the ladies if I'm not mistaken. The big deal with the Golden G was the 2am licence. I think the building is still there but no idea what goes on there.


----------



## Kaituo

john g said:


> Kraal was owned by a guy called John ? Stanley.....it later became the Golden Guinea with a licence ! and gaming upstairs.The Kraal was pretty basic had a soft drinks bar and a "hand bag counter" for the ladies if I'm not mistaken. The big deal with the Golden G was the 2am licence. I think the building is still there but no idea what goes on there.


I seem to remember the Kraal selling booze although at first it was certainly just a 'coffee bar'. Cant believe I would have gone there so frequently if it was 'dry'............ !


----------



## Chas York

Hi! - yeah, John Stanley, he of the deerstalker hat, yellow Triumph Stag and a vintage car too, I remember now it changed to Golden Guinea. Ta for update!

Chas


----------



## tell

remember the little cafe on the main drag where you could get brown bread and oysters? those were the days my friend those were the days!


----------



## Chas York

Ha! I dont remember that cafe - mainly coz I don't like oysters or brown bread! There was a cafe on Egerton St where a brill sausage egg n chips was dirt cheap tho - me and me mates used to get lunch there when we worked at the tower grounds in school / college holidays - also college hols we used to drink at the Perch Rock pub off Vicky Road, - pint and a butty for lunch break. God, a pint of bitter was about 1/5d in old money then, and we got paid £1 a day off old Wilkie!

Once upon a time there was a tavern.... hey!


----------



## Roger Harrison

Perch Rock still there. I am over from Oz for a couple of months staying with my son who lives just up the road from the Perch within 100 yds. 

They drag me down to the Peggy Gadflys for a game of Pool etc. Hmmmmmmm !

Roger Harrison


----------



## Wanstead

Peggy Gadfly's Victoria Road. That's pretty rough Roger!


----------



## Roger Harrison

I agree .....and expensive pint. But then rough bars are like pure nostalgia after visiting bars from the age of 16 in all the hick ports of Cuba, Dominican Republic etc when I was an apprentice with Athel Line. Rum & Cokes for sixpence !!! 

Roger


----------



## Peter Trodden

Roger,your post #126.
I've only just read this fascinating thread,so I am a bit late with this reply. The owners of the Empress club,New Brighton where brothers, Jack and Billy McGhee. They had a club in B-Head,over Burtons the Taylors,in Grange Rd,called the Craftmens. I visited both while on leave in the late 50s&60s 
ttfn Pete.


----------



## Pat Kennedy

Peter Trodden said:


> Roger,your post #126.
> I've only just read this fascinating thread,so I am a bit late with this reply. The owners of the Empress club,New Brighton where brothers, Jack and Billy McGhee. They had a club in B-Head,over Burtons the Taylors,in Grange Rd,called the Craftmens. I visited both while on leave in the late 50s&60s
> ttfn Pete.


Peter, 
I was in the Craftsmans plenty of times during that period,a good night out, also the Starboard Light by the old market.
Did you ever meet Letty Ferns who frequented both clubs, and was a friend of Peter Brabander, Bobby Dooley and that crowd?
Regards, 
Pat(Thumb)


----------



## Chas York

I used to drink in the Perch Rock when George Crockford had it - late 60s early70s, he went there from Black Horse Wallasey Village.


----------



## Chas York

Dont rememebr Craftsmans, but do remember The Sandpiper(??) and Stairways, both somewhere near the old Essoldo. Also used to have a pint or 3 in the Livingstone, by Livingstone St Baths, my first job was office dogsbody at Wm Marchbanks timber yard in 1961 - at the tender age of 16. Worked there while waiting for place at Riversdale Tech L'pool to get my Radio Officer's Ticket. Happy days!


----------



## Peter Trodden

Pat,
I remember Letitia Ferns very well, with Her beautiful latin looks, She was crazy for Brabs(Hippy)
Chas, 
I drank in the Livio(Livingstone Pub) I was from that neighbourhood. It was demolished about 4months ago,to make way for OAP flats (I'v put my name down) B\)
ttfn Peter.


----------



## tom roberts

Last time I was in the Perch Rock John Gilmore was running it, he of Cunard Yank fame it was the last pub I was in that you got service in the lounge,I think John moved there from the Half Way House Childer Thornton Ellesmere Port kept a good pint .


----------



## Chas York

*Perch Rock*



tom roberts said:


> Last time I was in the Perch Rock John Gilmore was running it, he of Cunard Yank fame it was the last pub I was in that you got service in the lounge,I think John moved there from the Half Way House Childer Thornton Ellesmere Port kept a good pint .


Hmmm - I'm going back to 1968ish... Cheers, I'll have a pint of Old Speckled Hen ta! lol(Jester)


----------



## Pat Kennedy

Peter Trodden said:


> Pat,
> I remember Letitia Ferns very well, with Her beautiful latin looks, She was crazy for Brabs(Hippy)
> Chas,
> I drank in the Livio(Livingstone Pub) I was from that neighbourhood. It was demolished about 4months ago,to make way for OAP flats (I'v put my name down) B\)
> ttfn Peter.


Peter, 
ref the Livingstone, did you know a guy named Brian Cullen who drank in there? 
He was a crane driver in Lairds and was nicknamed the "Landburger" cos he was the spit of the villain in "William Tell"
Brian could put seven pints of Guiness away in his lunch hour and come back and drive the crane with no discernible problem. 
Regards, 
Pat(Thumb)


----------



## Chas York

Pat Kennedy said:


> Peter,
> ref the Livingstone, did you know a guy named Brian Cullen who drank in there?
> He was a crane driver in Lairds and was nicknamed the "Landburger" cos he was the spit of the villain in "William Tell"
> Brian could put seven pints of Guiness away in his lunch hour and come back and drive the crane with no discernible problem.
> Regards,
> Pat(Thumb)


STAR! One pint of Guinness is Instant Liquid Dyno-Rod to me 
I wouldn't remember him, I was only 16 and went for a pint with a lad and couple of girls after work in Wm Marchbanks office before gettin train or cycling home.


----------



## Peter Trodden

Hi Pat,
I know Big Brian well, I seen him 6 months ago, in MacKenzies B-head. He sure could knock the Guinness back.(Pint) I remember him at the Yozzers and he was allways that size, but a nice guy all the same.:sweat:


----------



## Pat Kennedy

Peter Trodden said:


> Hi Pat,
> I know Big Brian well, I seen him 6 months ago, in MacKenzies B-head. He sure could knock the Guinness back.(Pint) I remember him at the Yozzers and he was allways that size, but a nice guy all the same.:sweat:


Peter, 
Yes Brian was OK, he had the smaller crane at Clovers No 1 dock and would, if suitably rewarded, lift you over the wall to freedom.
Do they still call him Landburger Gessler?, not to his face I guess.
regards, 
Pat(Jester)


----------



## Peter Trodden

Pat,
I'v never heard his nickname used in his presence, tho he does resemble Landberger Gessler.:sweat: There's a few ex-C/opps from the "Yard" that drink around Charring Cross you may know, Terry Raffaty,Dennis Kelly,and you will know (Bugle Boy)Suckly.
It's surprising the number of old mates I meet on my walkabouts.
Since having my travel pass,I never use the car (it's left to Herself)
I Like to visit L-Pool a few times a week, and some of the watering holes I useually meet ex,Seamen,Dockers and Offshore guys I Have worked with in the past.(when I was alive)(Jester)

ttfn Peter.


----------



## Pat Kennedy

Peter Trodden said:


> Pat,
> I'v never heard his nickname used in his presence, tho he does resemble Landberger Gessler.:sweat: There's a few ex-C/opps from the "Yard" that drink around Charring Cross you may know, Terry Raffaty,Dennis Kelly,and you will know (Bugle Boy)Suckly.
> It's surprising the number of old mates I meet on my walkabouts.
> Since having my travel pass,I never use the car (it's left to Herself)
> I Like to visit L-Pool a few times a week, and some of the watering holes I useually meet ex,Seamen,Dockers and Offshore guys I Have worked with in the past.(when I was alive)(Jester)
> 
> ttfn Peter.


I'm suprised Billy Suckley is still going, he had the crane between 6 and 7 drydocks when I was there and much later became foreman.
I was mates with his brother Jake, who had a bad fall from a gantry crane and smashed up both his legs. it was Jake who first taught me the crane driver's art.
Did you know Dennis Almond and Fred Goulding? both B'head lads, Dennis was chargehand stager, who had been a buoy jumper on Trinity House vessels, and Fred, also a stager was in RFA ships, and finished up bosun I heard.
Everwhere you go in Birkenhead you bump into ex sailors or dockers or blokes from the yard, in fact, if you say to any guy in a pub, "Didnt you work on the docks or down the yard?", its odds on he will say "Yes, I thought I knew your face."
regards, 
Pat (Thumb)


----------



## Lindseyjl

Santos said:


> No Bill, if you can read this, I cant disagree with you there, the Undertakers were a class act, I knew the drummer Bugs Pemberton very well.
> 
> Chris.


Hello Santos,
I read on your discussion about the Undertakers You mentioned you knew Warren (bugs) Pemberton quite well. I was wandering if you could tell me more about him and Ian his brother if you knew him as well.


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## ibx1

*The Port Light Club*

Someone mentioned the Starboard Light Club by the old market, I could be wrong but I think it was actually called "The Port Light Club". This was above, what eventually became a car show room and was the first night club in Birkenhead (on one of the short streets that joined Hamilton St to Market St West, which ran alongside the market itself). It ended it's days as the Cabin Club and was one of those places were you had to keep moving, or you stuck to the floor! The whole point of the place was you could continue drinking after 23:00 (==http://www.shipsnostalgia.com/images/smilies/jump3.gifD)


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## Pat Kennedy

ibx1 said:


> Someone mentioned the Starboard Light Club by the old market, I could be wrong but I think it was actually called "The Port Light Club". This was above, what eventually became a car show room and was the first night club in Birkenhead (on one of the short streets that joined Hamilton St to Market St West, which ran alongside the market itself). It ended it's days as the Cabin Club and was one of those places were you had to keep moving, or you stuck to the floor! The whole point of the place was you could continue drinking after 23:00 (==http://www.shipsnostalgia.com/images/smilies/jump3.gifD)


No it was definitely called the Starboard light, it even had a green light on the wall over the door.
It did become the cabin club.
see this from the Birkenhead message board;
http://www.knowhere.co.uk/Birkenhead/Merseyside/Northern-England/messages?start=21

*Re: Cabin Club* by jack jones (Member 10030924) on 19-Apr-2001
My brother george owned the Starboard Light ( Cabin Club)upto his sudden death in 1978.
I was in army at the time.
I met my wife Leslie when I joined Gingerbread a single parents thing and we used to hold evenings at the Cabin Club in 1980's.
Ofcours the Land Registry sits on its place. and the whole area has been developed.
There was a Cabin Club in Noctorum but was burnt dawn in 90's
Foward and Upward
jACK 

Regards, 
Pat(Smoke)


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## ibx1

*Thanks for putting me right.*

With regards to the "Starboard Light Club (Cabin Club) thanks for putting me right on the original name (I only ever went there when it was the Cabin). Am I right in thinking it was the first ever licensed club in Birkenhead?


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## josco

*New Brighton Tower ETC etc.....*

In the sixties there were some lads who started a group called The Astronauts they were only in their teens and broke up when the lead guitar fell off the stage (allegedly with more than half a pint inside him) at St Lukes Hall in Poulton! They did a few gigs though and were pretty OK.


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## jess53

*The Eggy ferry*



John Williams 56-65 said:


> Pat; Nice that someone else remembers the Navy Club in the old Egremont Ferry Building. I spent many an enjoyable Saturday night in there and remember many of the old Liverpool comedians performing there, some of whom went on to become quite well known. I can`t swear to it but I am almost certain I first saw and heard Ken Dodd in there. This was of course long before he became famous. Happy Times.


Hi i know this posting was a while back, but I am researching this area and the ferry and wondered if you had any old photos, snippets or stories about what happened in the club, pics of the inside or anything about this area that might help? I am trying to wirte a bit for the residents of Tobin Street about the history of therir area and this would be a great help if you had any info!! Thanks Jess (H)


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## Tom(Tucker)Kirby

This New Brighton nostalgia brings back so many memories, especially the freezing swimming baths, but we all enjoyed it just the same. New Brighton pier was also an Icon. It finally disappeared during 1977, I lifted the last remnants of steel out of the water, before transporting the crane over to Liverpool, I then went on to knock down Bibby's warehouse in Formby Street on the dock road.


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## Chas York

*Hi Tom*



Tom(Tucker)Kirby said:


> This New Brighton nostalgia brings back so many memories, especially the freezing swimming baths, but we all enjoyed it just the same. New Brighton pier was also an Icon. It finally disappeared during 1977, I lifted the last remnants of steel out of the water, before transporting the crane over to Liverpool, I then went on to knock down Bibby's warehouse in Formby Street on the dock road.


You need to look at https://www.facebook.com/groups/22076390964/

Its a group all about New Brighton. Theres akso a mersey ferries group and other Wallasey grouos. Interesting and friendy, all you need is get to the group page and ask to join. I'd add you but I'm nit admin. I'm sure you'll find it interestin!


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## Tom(Tucker)Kirby

Thanks Chas. I'll do that. Tom


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## brianrob1961

*Yet more trivia. OT ;-)*



nick olass said:


> I'll bet that hundreds of SN crew have sailed up and down the Mersey and are familiar with the 3 Graces, but how many of you are aware, that over the water at NEW BRIGHTON once stood a tower, similar, if not bigger and better than the one at Blackpool. I don't know all the facts, but that's where you old sea-dogs come in. Tell us all your stories, show us your pictures. Let's get all the facts.
> 
> Regards Nick


There was also nearly a tower at Wembley, taller than the Eiffel tower. It was the brain child of Sir Edward Watkin, chairman of the Great Central Railway.

Where it almost stood is Wembly Stadium.

And even more OT, drive along the coast road on the Algarve and you will pass over a bridge made out of the steel left over from building the Eiffel tower.

Brian.


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