# UNIDENTIFIED "Banana Boat" in N.O., La



## Rory

Hi All;

Wonder if any of you can identify this 'ancient' United Fruit "Banana Boat" dockside at New Orleans way back when.

It has to be what was termed "Mosquito Boat". Has Norwegian Flag, and strange to see a Stream Type Anchor on the hawser.

Would be interesting to know more about her.

Cheers,
Rory


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## gdynia

Rory

It could be the Agnella, Norwegian, 1910 chartered for New Orleans - Livingstone - Puerto Cortez route, 1916 out of banana trade renamed Sollund.


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## Bruce Carson

It may be hard to pin her down.
United Fruit at times chartered up to fifty or sixty Norwegian ships a year.
The relationship between United Fruit and Norwegian shipping companies lasted for over fifty years.

Bruce C


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## Rory

*Norwegian Boat*

Thanks Guys;

I found something I thought was on shore, but appears to be on the Bridge of this old timer. It is not English, but does not seem to appear as a "Mosquito". However, let us take a "Wild Shot". There was a Mosquito named OREGON, but it does not appear to be that one although this vessel could date from 1890 also.

I don't know if you can see the caeved wood name, but it is ORIGEN.
Rory


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## gdynia

Rory_P_OConnor said:


> Thanks Guys;
> 
> I found something I thought was on shore, but appears to be on the Bridge of this old timer. It is not English, but does not seem to appear as a "Mosquito". However, let us take a "Wild Shot". There was a Mosquito named OREGON, but it does not appear to be that one although this vessel could date from 1890 also.
> 
> I don't know if you can see the caeved wood name, but it is ORIGEN.
> Rory


Nearest name they had to that Rory was
Oregon 1890 Norwegian, ex-Sama, 1919 chartered to UFC, sold and renamed St. Thomas.


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## Rory

*ORIGEN vs OREGON*

That's the Wild Shot I spoke of, but could it have happened? I believe it could, and probably did. I know this sort of thing happened all the time with other things like locomotives and such.

All of the chartered vessels are supposed to be accounted for in "Going Bananas", and there is no ORIGEN to be found.
Rory


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## Knut

*Banana boat*

We have had many strange names on Norwegian ships, but ORIGEN just does not make sense. (EEK) 
Knut


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## fredkinghorn

Sure it's not " Konigen?" If my limited German serves me--is it "Prince " in English?

ferd

" and down the glen came McAlpine's men "


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## Bruce Carson

Rory_P_OConnor said:


> That's the Wild Shot I spoke of, but could it have happened? I believe it could, and probably did. I know this sort of thing happened all the time with other things like locomotives and such.
> 
> All of the chartered vessels are supposed to be accounted for in "Going Bananas", and there is no ORIGEN to be found.
> Rory


Rory, the 'Origen' is mentioned, in passing, at the bottom of page 275 in "Going Bananas".
Confusingly, in the same paragraph, there is also mention of the 'Oregon'.

A portion of said paragraph reads as follows:
"........The biggest passenger carriers among the "Mosquitoes" were the Norwegian flag ORIGEN, TAUNTON, PRESTON, and ELLIS and the German flag BAKER, BOUND BROOK, BRADFORD and BREWSTER. The OREGON, a liner bought by Hagbart Waage from a British company in 1899 had room for 20 passengers..........."

"Going Bananas" 
Mark H. Goldberg
American Merchant Marine History Series
Volume III
The American Merchant Marine Museum Foundation
Kings Point, New York
1993

Bruce C


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## Rory

*The Riddle Resolved?*

Bruce you are a genius.

I too have Mark Goldberg's book "Going Bananas", but have really only worked in the section regarding the specs for ships in rear of book.

Taking your quote from page 275:
"........The biggest passenger carriers among the "Mosquitoes" were the Norwegian flag *ORIGEN*, TAUNTON, PRESTON, and ELLIS and the German flag BAKER, BOUND BROOK, BRADFORD and BREWSTER. The OREGON, a liner bought by Hagbart Waage from a British company in 1899 had room for 20 passengers..........."

Then looking at the description that begins with Oregon as above we get:
Oregon, Preston, Ellis, Baker, Bound Brook etc. etc in the same exact order as the first part. Except
*ORIGEN has become OREGON*

How do you see it, Bruce?

Cheers,
Rory


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## Knut

*The mystery deepen.*

ORIGEN may have been chartered by UFC, but certainly did not belong to that company. Judging by the funnel and flag it is most likely that ORIGEN`s owners were John P.Pedersen & Son,Christiania. 
Then today I found hanging on the wall of a friend dealing in paintings, antiquities and junk, a painting of SS VERONA. With the exception of few minor details, she`s obviously a sister of ORIGEN. However, it turns out that the houseflag is that of Tropical Fruit S.S Co.Ltd. Glasgow and the funnels of that company are similar to those of J.P.P. What gives? Any ideas?Pic of Verona to large to attach so I\ll put her in the gallery.
Knut. http://www.shipsnostalgia.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5088&stc=1
Funnels & Houseflags.JPG


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## Bruce Carson

Rory, as you say, it's almost certainly an error and the 'Oregon' should read 'Origen'.

A few years back I belonged to another shipping site, rather laid back and friendly, pretty much like this one.
Every so often we'd get an author of maritime books join, and each, without exception, appeared to be jealous of each other's scholarship, somewhat lacking in humor and really touchy when it came to their research.
Mark Goldberg was fun to have onboard, but he was really uptight when it came to historic accuracy, pretty much letting the members know that he dealt in the facts and only the facts.
The book is 600 pages long and I guess a few small errors must be expected. I've others by him in the same series and the research that went into these books is extraordinary. I don't think I'm too mean spirited if I have a very small chuckle over the small slip, knowing his worship of accuracy.

I didn't have a clue as to who or what "Origen" is or was. 
Now I know:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origen

Bruce C


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## Baltic Wal

This confusion shows how there is a reliance by some authors/people on hearsay, they see an item in a book or the internet and take it as gospel. Once it appears a couple of times then it suddenly becomes fact and those of you trying to correct it are pushed to one side. 

An interesting thing supporting this is that there are two sites, one the NMM who are still wrongly identifying a ship that has been put to rights by members of this site. While investigating anything regarding Bolton Steam Shipping two sites gave reference to the ROMANIC, built 1954 for Bolton S S but a photo of the DRINA, that became the ROMANIC. This was identified as wrong by members of this Forum yet still it is displayed. Obviously they think that if the NMM says this is a photo of a particular ship then they are correct, not those of us who sailed on her.


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## Bruce Carson

Knut, they're similar in appearance, but they are not sisters.
The 'Verona' and her sister, 'Vera', were 1903 products of Burmeister & Wain, measuring just over 1,220GT, 220' x 32, single screw, 3exp, 10 knots. Both were owned by A. F. Klaveness, Oslo.
The 'Origen' came from the Cart yard of the Abercorn Shipbuilding Co., Paisley and was a smaller ship. She was built in 1890 as the 'Sama' for Jacob Christensen and went to Pedersen in 1897. Other name and ownership changes followed.
942GT, 185' x 28', single screw, 3exp, 10 knots.

Above from the now well thumbed "Gong Bananas".

Rory, to add confusion to confusion, the facts in the alphabetical listing for the 'Oregon' do not appear to match the facts on page 275 (a liner bought by Hagbart Waage from a British company in 1899)

Bruce C


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## Rory

Hi Bruce and Kurt;

Based on the photo I submitted as an attachment for the UFCo Charter ship. I would like to know where the accommodations for twenty passengers are located, if she ever turned out to be "The Oregon". This vessel does not appear to have too much space in the Main Castle for much of anything. Does seem to carry four lifeboats for that early time [the photo was taken in 1910 New Orleans].

I'm with you, Bruce, in that we seem to have two very different vessels in this instance. Now, I am only vaguely familiar with the highly praised "Starke-Schell Registers". Perhaps someone with access to these registers might be able to set us straight on this or these vessels.

Regarding errors that appear in well researched material, I think this is quite common. There is no doubt that the 600+ pages of Mr. Goldberg’s “Going Bananas” is a great reference work, but there will always be “typos”, and as “Baltic Wal” pointed out, misleading information that appears as fact.

Cheers,
Rory


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## Ian

*Unidentified Banana Boat*

What a lovely old vessel, full of character. Can anyone tell me why there was a "turtle back" on the main deck at the counter stern? was it usual on these ships?


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## Rory

*Tropical Fruit S.S Co.Ltd*

Knut;

Tropical Fruit S.S Co.Ltd was a division of the Parent United Fruit, and they placed many vessels under The Red Ensign through it. At least that is my understanding. There were many subsidiaries of the UFCo, and I have put together some of the known House flags and Funnels.
Rory


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## Bruce Carson

Rory, I found the photograph included in a spectacular 1910(?) panorama of the United Fruit New Orleans docks. Well worth taking a look--Windows Picture & Fax Viewer (XP) blows the scene up nicely and you can get a close up view of the Origen's details, including a clear view of the nameboard.
Looks like two of the Workman, Clark, Glasgow registered Tropical Fruit ships flanking her. [
http://tinyurl.com/frypl
(#13 on the list)

Tropical, I think, was what you could call a flag of convenience, in many ways similar to the American ownership of the White Star and other passenger lines. United Fruit gained the advantage of the largest and best shipbuilding and manning source in the world combined with the lower costs of British yards, operating costs, registry and manpower. 
Later, by special legislation in Washington at the outbreak of the war in Europe in 1914, the ships were able to transfer to United States registry. 

Jock, I think the turtleback was originally to protect the wheelsman from rough or following seas. Probably continued in use to protect crew or passenger from the same conditions.You see it quite often in photos of smaller ships built in the last half of the nineteenth century

Bruce C

Change the URL


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## Rory

*UFCo Ship Identification*

Bruce,
That is a spectacular panorama shot. Do the two other larger vessels look like “5,000 Tonners” by Workman Clark & Co. Belfast, to you? Pity the photographer did not include their names for us.

On another note about UFCo ship identification, I have a question about a much more modern UFC [or whatever they call themselves nowadays] group of ships. They seem to be Honduras or Panama Flagged.vessels, and I have some particulars on a couple of them.

“Omoa-1965” is listed as ex German? “Lemoncore” [by Tanker from SN]
“Condata-1968” [UFC Boat?] is ex “Tangerinecore” [says so in caption of photo image]
“Olancho-1965” I have nothing on this one except it sure looks like a ‘Core Boat’
Then there is a list of ‘Core’ boats with later companies and names, but none I find for “Olancho” or other UFC ownership or charters. Many of these are shown in Sven Salen colors. We were always told when I worked for Salen that “Thing” above and below the S on the funnel was a Banana; and UFCo had something financially to do with Salen.
The other ‘Core Ships’;

AVOCADOCORE-1965
BANANACORE-1965
LEMONCORE-1964
MANDARINCORE-1968
MANGOCORE-1965
PERSIMMONCORE-1968
SABRACORE-1968
TANGERINECORE-1968
GUAVACORE-1969
NECTARINECORE-1970
NAVELINACORE-1970
SULTANACORE-1970

Any info for further UFC ships of this group will be welcomed.
Cheers,
Rory


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## Bruce Carson

Rory, they have to be two of the thirteen 5,000 tonners, ten of which were built by 1910.
I don't think the first three (Cartago, Parismina and Heredia) had lifeboats at the stern as these two do, but that leaves seven to pick from.
Can't find another picture of a GWF vessel with the uptake showing above the funnel casing, as in the forward ship.
The long line of truly handsome United Fruit ships, evolutionary in design, from Workman, Clark must represent a high point in the relationship between an owner and the builders.

Bruce C


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## Jim S

*U F Co ships*

Rory,
Omoa, Olancho, Orica etc are traditional Empressa de Hondurena names.
The extensive list of ships with the suffix "Core" is new to me.
In 1979 the management of Fyffes ships was transferred to Salen UK Ship Management - this arrangement lasted only a couple of years and was not entirely satisfactory. Ship management reverted to Fyffes Ship Management.
United Brands held the purse strings but had no interest in ship owning the relationship between them and subsidiaries such as Fyffes was often strained.


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## Rory

*"5M Tonner" and "Core Boats"*

Hi Bruce.

If you take a gander at page 314 of “Going Bananas” I think we have our ship = SS Heredia. Note the uplift extended beyond the funnel casing in the picture. Also in the ‘second’ image of the Panorama [you do have numero dose?] I feel I can read the first letter of name under the stern “H”. What do you make of it in your large scan?

One item that has just come to my attention while browsing the book was the influence of the Hamburg America Line designs for what became E&F Changuinola and Motagua upon “The Elite Class” of UFCo. Vessels from Workman Clark.

I have another question for someone with knowledge of ship registration, and the country flag that goes with it. Is it possible to have a ship registered in LONDON, UK, but be owned by a Dutch Co. and fly the Dutch Flag? I ask this because I stumbled upon a photo of the Dutch SS Marowijne-1908 by Workman Clark. It is written that this [and her sister] were registered in London. However, in the photo she is proudly flying the Houseflag of W.M.I. and the Royal Dutch Flag at stern.

Hi Jim;

All of these vessels were built in Norway.
This one sure had a strange name while with Chiqueta
BV 19d “CONDATA” (EMPRESA HONDURENA DE VAPORES) 1969

Marcus Berger supplied the following regarding one of them.
LOA: 148,83m. Lpp: 135,31m. B: 20,07m. D: 9,164m. G.T.: 8.134. DWT: 10.023.
1968 AS Bergens Mek. Verksteder -Bergen. Yard No. 464.
EX-TANGERINECORE, 1968 (Nombre Original/Original Name). EX-CONDATA, 1976.
LUCKY, 1988.
Desguazado en Port Alang, India el 12/05/1993 - Broken up in Port Alang, India in 12/05/1993

Lemoncore would have had basically the same specs as above

The other one I mentioned for EMPRESA HONDURENA DE VAPORES from this group [there may have been more] I cannot identify.

Cheers,
Rory


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## Jim S

*Identity of UF Co ship*



Rory_P_OConnor said:


> Hi Bruce.
> 
> If you take a gander at page 314 of “Going Bananas” I think we have our ship = SS Heredia. Note the uplift extended beyond the funnel casing in the picture. Also in the ‘second’ image of the Panorama [you do have numero dose?] I feel I can read the first letter of name under the stern “H”. What do you make of it in your large scan?
> 
> One item that has just come to my attention while browsing the book was the influence of the Hamburg America Line designs for what became E&F Changuinola and Motagua upon “The Elite Class” of UFCo. Vessels from Workman Clark.
> 
> I have another question for someone with knowledge of ship registration, and the country flag that goes with it. Is it possible to have a ship registered in LONDON, UK, but be owned by a Dutch Co. and fly the Dutch Flag? I ask this because I stumbled upon a photo of the Dutch SS Marowijne-1908 by Workman Clark. It is written that this [and her sister] were registered in London. However, in the photo she is proudly flying the Houseflag of W.M.I. and the Royal Dutch Flag at stern.
> 
> Hi Jim;
> 
> All of these vessels were built in Norway.
> This one sure had a strange name while with Chiqueta
> BV 19d “CONDATA” (EMPRESA HONDURENA DE VAPORES) 1969
> 
> Marcus Berger supplied the following regarding one of them.
> LOA: 148,83m. Lpp: 135,31m. B: 20,07m. D: 9,164m. G.T.: 8.134. DWT: 10.023.
> 1968 AS Bergens Mek. Verksteder -Bergen. Yard No. 464.
> EX-TANGERINECORE, 1968 (Nombre Original/Original Name). EX-CONDATA, 1976.
> LUCKY, 1988.
> Desguazado en Port Alang, India el 12/05/1993 - Broken up in Port Alang, India in 12/05/1993
> 
> Lemoncore would have had basically the same specs as above
> 
> The other one I mentioned for EMPRESA HONDURENA DE VAPORES from this group [there may have been more] I cannot identify.
> 
> Cheers,
> Rory


Rory,
Will be interested in identification of fairly large UF Co illustrated. Her style of masts and the rigging arrangement of the derricks (no preventer wire linking derrick head) looks of British origin.

Jim S


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## Bruce Carson

Rory, I've been staring at that damned picture till my eyes have crossed.
I think that both ships belong to the second group of three, which were the only ones built, I believe, with two boats on the upper deck, one aft and trees on both masts.
The first group don't appear ever to have an aft lifeboat and the pictures of the third group show no crosstrees on the masts. The other ships were built after 1910.
The ship astern of the 'Origen' has a longish name, so that would leave out the 'Atenas'.
On the forward ship, I can make out "Glasgow" but the name eludes me. I can't even tell how many letters make up the name and it must be an optical allusion, but it doesn't appear to be centered over the port of registry.

I did notice the funnel of the 'Heredia' in the photo and thought that it had what I think was called an "Admiralty Cap". I wondered if some of the earlier ships of the class were originally built with this feature, only to have the funnel changed at an early date in their careers. These ships appear to have had more small alterations made to them over the years than most vessels.

All of the above, is, of course, subject to change. (*)) 

http://www.clydesite.co.uk/clydebuilt/viewship.asp?id=3570
(Admiralty caps (?) on the Anchor liner 'Caledonia' of 1925.)

To hell with United Fruit!
I going to pick the best fruit in the world---the first home grown tomato of the season.

Bruce C


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## Jim S

*Identity of UF Co ship*

Rory,
Like Bruce I have gone cross eyed trying to de-cypher the name on the stern of the UF Co ship with the coaling barge alongside.
Bruce thinks the port of registry is Glasgow - I have almost convinced myself it is Belfast.
I think it is fair to assume that it is one or other that would mean either built at Stephens of Linthouse or Workman Clark Belfast.
The ensign looks like a British Red Ensign. The design of mast and the manner of cargo gear rigging looks Brirish
She is a fair sized ship (for a fruit ship) probably around 6 to 7000 grt.
She has a large amount of accommodation - three decks, probably around 100 passengers.
The two upper decks that are sheeted -in for the coaling operation reminded me of the four "A -Class" of around 1912 CHAGRES, PATIA, BAYANO and PATUCA of which PATUCA was the sole survivor of WW 1. However the profile shown in Duncan Haws book and a photo I have seen in another book shows PATUCA with no ports on hull ("C-Deck") and with rails and not plated bullwarks as in your photo. She also does not show the two ventilators just aft of the accommodation. - I had almost convinced myself that the name on stern was PATUCA too !!
To recap
1/ British built
2/ approx 6000 - 7000 grt
3/ approx 100 passengers
4/ probably twin screw

I dont think that the two levels of accommodation above main deck level "A and B Decks" was repeated on any E & F ships until the Golfito of 1949 and Camito of 1956.

I hope that someone somewhere can solve this mystery

Jim S

ps I even printed your photo at maximum resolution onto photo paper - still no luck in ID


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## Rory

*The 5,000 TONNERS from Workman Clark*

Hi Bruce and Jim;

Good of you to stop in, and do some digging on the UFCo ships from that old New Orleans photo. I sure hope neither of you really got crossed eyes from that image. I cannot seem to be even able to see it anymore, and I give up. The big ships are 5000 Tonners, and we may never know exactly which vessels they are. The little Norwegian ship is different though as we do have a name, and apparently the correct one so I’ll pursue that one up on the Norwegian Site, and see what develops.

I have a side drawing for the 5M Tonners, and have added the basic dimensions for the entire class. I’ll try to attach it here. There a couple of other classes of UFCo ships also with the double decks, and will try to put these up also later on.

Bruce, hope your tomatoes ripen for you, and remember if they don’t put them in a brown paper bag with a Banana Peel, and “Mum’s The Word”.

Thank you both for your continued help.

Cheers,
Rory


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## Jim S

*United Fruit*

Rory,
Good to see your image of the Workman Clark "5000 tonners"
I was certainly surprised that the tonnage was less than the 6 to 7000 grt that I estimated. They must have been pretty cramped little ships - 50 feet shorter and about 12 feet less beamier than the equivalent passenger carrying Golfito/Camito.
May be that contributed to the reduction of passengers to only 12 as listed in Roger Jordan's Merchant Fleets of 1939.
I assume that the transfer to United Fruit parent in 1914 was to afford them the protection of neutrality in WW 1.
Not so fortunate according to the above book, 5 were lost in WW 2
HERIDIA - Torpedoed by U-506 on 19-5-42 with loss of 36 souls, 26 survivors.
METAPAN - Struck mine 1-10-43 ship sunk all 73 survived.
PARISMINA - Torpedoed by U-624 on 18-11-42 with loss of 22 souls, 41 survived.
SIXAOLA - Torpedoed by U-159 on 13-6-42 with loss of 29 souls - 178 survivors - was this a typo or had she still more than accom for 12?
TIVIVES - Torpedoed by aircraft on 21-10-43 with loss of 2 souls, 78 survived.
ABANGAREZ survived the war to be broken up at Oakland, California in 1947
There is no mention of the remainder of the class in this book.
Workman Clark were obviously a very busy yard to turn out so many of the class.


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## Bruce Carson

Jim, these ships were apparently, for the early twentieth century, exceptionally comfortable. Contemporary writers often remarked on the pleasant cabins and public rooms. 
Passenger numbers varied over the years, but eighty was probably the average: the passengers had the run of the ship, as, in that age of mostly segregated accomodation by class, they were one class
By the mid thirties these ships were well over twenty years old and the depression had cut passenger numbers drastically.
The company had six 7,000GT turbo-electric passenger cargo liners negotiated for about the time of the Wall Street crash but not delivered until the early thirties. They were subsidized with a mail contract, but, with these and the old vessels, there were just too many berths to fill during the depression and the oldest vessel had their accommodation stripped. As passenger ships, they had had a decent life span.
The six 7,000GT ships carried about 112 passenger as built, which, I would guess, is fairly comparable to the 5,000/80 of the old ships. Carrying the same number of passengers, the new ships were slightly smaller (415' x 60') than the last two built by Stephen for E&F, but you would expect a little more spacious passenger quarters on the 'Golfito' and 'Camito', ships that were built about twenty five years after the UF sextette. 
Unfortunately, these six were the last passenger ships built for the American flag services of United Fruit.

Three pictures of the 5,000 ton ships:
http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/images/n10000/n12346.jpg
http://www.esseximages.com/detail.aspx?ID=473
http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/images/i03000/i03269.jpg

The American built turbo-electrics: the evolution of the original Workman, Clark design is obvious:
http://www.timetableimages.com/maritime/images/ufc50b-1.htm
(The deck plans blow Up)
Bruce C


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## Jim S

*United Fruit Company - Elders & Fyffes*

Hi Bruce,
Thanks for the info on the Workman Clark "5000 tonners" and the American built turbo-electric ships of the early 1930's. They certainly ruined the looks of the latter when the passenger accommodation was cut off.
I sailed on E & F's CAMITO and like the earlier ships many passengers commented favourably on the accommodation - all cabins being outside and latterly air-conditioned.
That said the amenities were limited - a far cry from todays floating resorts-although even at that time were pleasing for the type of passengers carried.
Apart from swimming pool and bar entertainment was limited to film shows, quiz nights, dance nights which simply rotated. On one voyage the Bandleader
Henry Hall was a passenger and he was talked into a piano recital which went down well with our elderly clientele.


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## Tony Breach

Noted the references to "CORES": All vessels with this suffix were built for Maritime Fruit Carriers of Haifa & according to my Jewish friends "CORE" is hebrew for cold.

The CORES were an interesting group and evolved over a considerable period as follows:

Standard Cores
Group A. 4 Vessels, LEMON, BANANA, MANGO & AVOCADO all built with Israeli government subsidies & had a limited military capability - no hatch coamings at No.4 hatch in order to provide helipad & reported to have stiffening of the focsle deck for a gun mount.

Group B. 12 vessels, did not have any military capability.

Super Cores were basically an all round enlargement of the design & came in various sub groups.
Basic Super Core, 8 vessels. 6 of these had Hallen derricks at hatches 2 & 3 in addition to normal union purchase derricks. The other 2 built for P&O group as WILD AUK & WILD AVOCET did not have the Hallens.

Super Core Blue Star A. 6 vessels with cranes instead of derricks &, of course, a suitably large funnel to accomodate the star.

Super Core Geest, 2 vessels which were Blue Star options taken up by Geest. These had one less hatch, a combination of cranes & derricks & the usual Geest twin funnels.

Queen Core, 4 vessels which were a further increase in size.


The "CORE" suffix was also used on the 2nd, 4th & 5th Standard Clippers built at Drammen for MFC: ALASKACORE, ANTARCTCORE & BERINGCORE but the suffix was later dropped.

A total of 2 Pre- Clippers, 22 Standard Clippers & 16 Super Clippers were built.


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## Rory

*The "ELITE CLASS"*

Hi Jim;

I am surprised that the other “5,000 Tonners” are not mentioned in the 1939 “Merchant Fleets” book. I can see the Cartago not being found under United Fruit as she was under lease to States Marine Lines from 1933 through 1937, and they may not have noed the return. Then there were all the other names that UF put ships under at one time or another, The Balboa SS of Panama, The Almirante SS Co. of Panama, The Mayan SS Co of Tela, Honduras. Empresa de Vapores, Unifruitco, UK, Tropical Fruit and/or Tropical SS Co. UK. To name a few.

What info I have on the missing vessels is as follows:

*Almirante* - Tropical SS Co UK flag, 1914 Almiranta SS Co (US flag), 1918 sunk in collision with USS HISCO [a naval tanker] off Atlantic City, NJ.

*Atenas* - Tropical SS Co UK flag, 1914 Atenas SS Co (US flag), 1922 UFC, 1936 converted to cargo ship, 1949 scrapped Maryland.

*Carrillo* - Tropical SS Co UK flag, 1914 Carrillo SS Co (US flag), 1922 UF & SS Co. 1936 converted to cargo ship, 1948 scrapped Baltimore, MD

*Cartago* - Tropical SS Co UK flag, 1914 Cartago SS Co (US flag), 1921 to UF & SS Co. 1933 chartered to States SS Co renamed General Lee, 1937 reverted to Cartago, converted to cargo ship, 1947 scrapped Tacoma, WA

*Santa Marta* - Tropical SS Co UK flag, 1914 Santa Marta SS Co (US flag), 1922 to UF Co. 1948 scrapped Baltimore, MD

*Turrialba* - Tropical SS Co UK flag, 1914 Turrialbo SS Co (US flag), 1922 to UF Co. 1934 reduced to Freighter. 1949 scrapped Baltimore, MD

*Zacapa* - Tropical SS Co UK flag, 1914 Zacapa SS Co (US flag), 1922 to United Fruit Co. 1934 cut down to freighter. 1947 "Refrigerated SS Line" [UFCo]. 1949 scrapped Baltimore, MD

I noticed there is a “TYPO” on page 41 of the E&F Book by Duncan Haws. The ship’s name should be *ERIN*, and not her near sister *EROS* built by H&W.

*ERIN* to E&F *Manistee*-1947
1932 Workman, Clark (1928) Ltd. Belfast, Northern Ireland
Two deck (3rd + 4th decks in holds) steel refrigerated steamer
415' x 54'7"x 30'4" 25' draft. 5,739 grt 2,577 net 15.5 kts. 340 bbls per day. 12 pax.
Built to run between Jamaica/Central America and UK.
1933?Erin SS Co. UK flag.
1934?Standard Fruit & SS Co Belfast.
1936?Chartered at Baltimore by owners Standard Fruit & SS Company of Delaware to Standard Fruit & SSCo, Ltd of Jamaica. Then chartered to Elders & Fyffes when Standard Fruit named that company its importing agent in the UK and Continental Europe.
1937?Erin SS Co. April 1939?Chartered to Elders & Fyffes. From the 10 page charter agreement: "Owner sublets, charter rehires ship up to and including completion of discharge in England on or about April 19, 1939 and thence from round trip to round trip till further notice".
Registered to Morant SS Co. (M. H. Kerwin, mgrs. Kerwin was long UK agent/member of Standard Fruit Co.) for duration of charter. After Sept 3, 1939?under control of MOWT but managed by Morant SS Co.?1940?Now on demise time charterto Elders through Morant. First year's payment £13,706/3/1 payable in monthly installments on the first of each month. Subsequent payments reduced until 1946 when amount was £12,164/4/3. Possibility of loss covered by statement: "If lost hire will be up to the day of loss". 1940 Vessel under demise time charter with purchase option. Retained on charter through the war by Morant SS Co. Dec. 31, 1940?United Fruit tried to get Standard to lower the price because of the War. 1947?purchase option exercised and ship sold to Elders & Fyffes and renamed MANISTEE.
1960 Scrapped at Newport, Mon. England. (near sister: EROS).

The "*Elite Class*" were highly influenced by the ex HAPAG - E&F Changuinola Class.

Hi Tony;

Thanks for that long list of “Core” vessels. Were they all built in Norway? Is there any way to learn how many/and which might have been leased to “*United Brands*” or one of their subsidiaries? Would be appreciated.

Cheers,
Rory


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## Tony Breach

Hi Rory,


Re Haws:
P.41. Confirm your comments that MANISTEE was ERIN.
P.39. Haws states NICOYA III was ex PANTHER however she was ex PONTOS (& EMPIRE MOWDDACH as stated): see Kludas p.93.
P.39, REVETAZON was PANTHER as stated.
P.43, I beleive that the first word of the 3 CH ships when sold should be MARDINA & not MARDINIA as stated. Would appreciate a commment on this.

STANDARDCORES all Norway
Bergens M/V, Bergen:
LEMONCORE #449
BANANACORE #450
MANDARINCORE #463
TANGERINECORE #464
NECTARINECORE #636
SATSUMACORE #637
NAVELINACORE #638
SULTANACORE #639
CLEMENTINACORE #648 
Akers M/V, Oslo:
MANGOCORE #557
AVOCADOCORE #559
SABRACORE #602
Nylands Verksted, Oslo:
PERSIMMONCORE #603
GUAVACORE #608
ANONACORE #609
PECANCORE #647
The hull numbers seem strange & I beleive there was a link between the yards.

SUPERCORES Norway, UK, Denmark/Norway 
Bergens M/V Bergen:
MORILLO #649
WILD AUK #651
WILD AVOCET #653
Nylands Verksted, Oslo:
CHERRY #650
ORANGE #652
MARANGA #654
CANATLOUP #655
TANGELO #656
Smiths Dock, Middlesborough UK:
AFRIC STAR #1328
ANDALUCIA STAR #1329
AVELONA STAR #1330
ALMEDA STAR #1331
ALMERIA STAR #1332
GEESTBAY #1346
GEESTPORT #1347
Naskskovs Skibsvaerft, Nakskov - Akers M/V Bergen
AVILA STAR #208 @ Nakskov: #711 @ Akers.

QUEENCORES all Denmark
Aalborg Vaerft, Aalborg, Denmark
GLADIOLA #195
ORCHIDEA #196
IRIS QUEEN #197
CHRYSANTEMA #198

UB service: The owned vessels, OMOA, OLANCHO, ORICA & CONDATA, info you already have. The 6 Cunard Cores/Supercores: CARMANIA ex ORANGE, CARINTHIA ex CANTALOUP, SAXONIA ex GLADIOLA, SERVIA ex ORCHIDEA, SCYTHIA ex IRIS QUEEN & SAMARIA ex CHRYSANTEMA were all time chartered to UB for some time. With so many vessels in these groups I am sure that many of the others saw some service with UB either on time or voyage charter.

Seems to me that you are an officianado of UFC? I have very much info on the company which is mostly from published material or from internal stuff which I have gkeaned over the years. Also, the Clippers & Cores are hobby of mine & I have my own records of all vessels.

Everyone please keep eating bananas: they pay a lot of peoples' wages!
Tony


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## Rory

*Honduran "CORE" Boats*

Hi Tony;

Thanks for the list of those Core Boats. They sure built a lot of them.

About those that were owned by United Fruit [or United Brands] I can only say I know two of them for sure.
X10 Omoa-1964	Hull 449	ex Lemoncore
X11 Condata-1965	Hull 464	ex Tangerinecore

X12 Olancho-1965 ex ?
X13 Orica-19XX ex ?

About the Mardinia vs Mardina I have no do***entation. However, our fellow SN Member "Meechingman" has images up on site, and he used the Mardinia spelling, and I suspect he read it from the photographs. Also, The Ships List uses the same spelling. Perhaps Meechingman might drop a line here, and let us know for sure.

Cheers,
Rory


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## Bruce Carson

I thought I might mention an interesting sidelight to the 5,000 tonners.
Rory mentioned the 'Cartago' becoming the 'General Lee' when chartered to the States Steamship Co. between 1932 and 1937. Also chartered were her sisters, 'Parismina' (General Sherman') and 'Heredia' ('General Pershing'), all for a passenger, cargo and mail service from Portland and San Francisco to Yokohama, Kobe, Shanghai, Hong Kong and Manila. 
At the time of the charter, Hitler was about to become German Chancellor and there was a growing international reaction against he and the Nazi Party, symbolized by the hakenkreuz, the swastika. Charles Dant, owner of States steamship Company, had taken an old Arizonan American Indian good luck symbol as a funnel and flag emblem for his line of steamships in 1928. It was the same crooked cross that the Nazis used, only on a horizontal/vertical plane rather than tilted and the black,white and red colors were differently utilized, although most most did not notice those fine distinctions. As the thirties wore on, this funnel and flag design on American registered vessels became more and more controversial. The funnel was black with a white swastika on a red band. The company flag was red with a white swastika.
The service lost money, the 'Morro Castle' disaster brought about new safety regulations that the ships could not meet without a rebuild and the government canceled the mail contract effective June 30, 1937.
On that date the 'General Pershing' left for Japan, the last passenger sailing of a States Steamship passenger liner: the ships went back to United Fruit, the company paying for the unused portion of an unbreakable seven year charter.
The company managed to survive on revenue from its cargo ships. Protests over the companies flag and funnel grew and by 1940 the company, after being picketed and having work stoppages by longshoremen, had changed the designs. In 1954 a stylized red seahorse became the funnel symbol and lasted until the company went into voluntary liquidation in late 1979.


States Steamship Company's 'General Sherman' with the swastika funnel:

http://www.shipsnostalgia.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=30194&nocache=1

Bruce C


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## Rory

*'Core' Boats and Swastika*

Hi again Tony;

You mentioned the Hull or Yard Numbers for these various Norwegian ship builders to be very close, and near insequence. In some information provided by Markus Berger of Switzerland I noted the following two Yard numbers for AS Bergens. Note the difference for the 1965 ship against the 1968 vessel [if reported correctly]. One has to wonder if there was some sort of merger between the four Norwegian yards involved with building these "Core" boats.

*BANANACORE*-1965
LOA: 147,83m. Lpp: 135,31m. B: 20,05m. D: 9,165m. G.T.: 8.030. DWT: 8.535.
1965 A/S Bergenske Mekaniske Verksted - Bergen. *Yard # 142*.
EX-BANANACORE, 1965 (Original Name)
CHAITEN, 1976.
Broken up in Kaohsiung, China in 16/06/1984


*MANDARINCORE*-1968
LOA: 147,83m. Lpp: 135,31m. B: 20,07m. D: 8,51m G.T.: 8.069. DWT: 9.866
1968 A/S Bergenske Mekaniske Verksted - Bergen. *Yard # 463*.
EX-MANDARINCORE, 1968 (Original Name)
EX-CEIBA, 1976.
CHILLAN, 1979.
Broken up in 29/04/1993 at Bangladesh
RPO

Hi Bruce;

Nice image of the States Steamship Co. ex UFCo vessel. That swastika is not reversed as I thought it would be. Or is it reversed on the other [Port] side. Some designs do that so the house flag would not have a conflict when viewed from either side.

Are you from up this way, Bruce? Tomorrow 109f, I can hardly wait. Do you know if any of the UF Boats worked into Portland in years past? I have seen a photo of one in Seattle.

Cheers,
Rory


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## Bruce Carson

Rory, I've changed the description of the funnel marking, although I think it still is 
as clear as mud. I was trying to describe the difference in the black, red and white combinations, but that didn't work out. Best to look at the picture.
They faced the same way both on the port and starboard.
I could be wrong but I don't think UF reached Portland: Admiral and the Columbia Pacific (later States Steamship) were about the only American flag ocean going steamship lines out of Portland that I know of. 
I'm not sure where you are, Rory, but here in Michigan we missed the 100 degree mark. Had about four days of the mid nineties, which is not unusual in mid July. Now we're hovering in the mid eighties, which is normal and easily handled. At 109F, it would take a helluva lot of McEwans to slake that thirst.

Bruce C.


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## Tony Breach

Hi Rory

OLANCHO was MANGOCORE
ORICA was AVOCADOCORE

Checked hull numbers again in LR & BANANACORE was 450, not 142.

Yes, I think there was a strong link between all the Norwegian yards which has a bearing on the numbering pattern. Note that the hull of AVILA STAR was built in Denmark & fitted out in Norway - this was possibly due to a deal between Akers & Smiths who had also had a deal on the Clippers which were Drammen designs originally. This ship must have had Norwegian finance as she remained with Norwegian companies for some time after leaving the Blue Star fleet.

We were all waiting for MFC to come up with APPLECORE for a name; praise be that it never happened. 

Keep eating bananas - it's part of my pension!
Tony


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## Rory

*The Mail Boats*

Hi Tony;

Thanks for the other two Empresa Hondurena de Vapores "Core" boats. Now I have the four of them. Do you happen to know the Diesel Engine make/specs for these boats? With the Danish connection I will assume B&W of Copenhagen.

There were also three modern reefers built in Poland by *Stocznia Gdanska im. "Lenina", Gdansk*. These were *United Brands * bought, and under the Panamanian flag. I am curious to know the engine maker, and a few engine specs for these three if possible.

Rio Cuyamel-1978
Rio Sulaco-1978
Rio Sixaola-1979

Always appreciated.
Cheers,
Rory


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## Rory

*A Dutch Boat In The Cut*

Hi Bruce;

That States Steamship Co. seems to have several versions of the funnel markings. In your image it is probably a white swastika on red stripe, black funnel. On a flags site it says/shows black swastika on red band, and mention is made of an earlier version with reverse swastika.

I thought you were up here in the Northwest as the credit to your photo was Oregon Historical Society. I live in Washington State just north of Portland, Oregon. We broke 109 today, and tomorrow is supposed to be hotter. I’m kinda having a good time with *White Яussians * tonight though, and I’ll worry about tomorrow when it gets here.

Cheers,
Rory


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## Tony Breach

Hi Rory,

All Standard Cores had a B&W 7 cylinder 740 x 1600 oil engine of 11,500bhp mostly built by the individual shipbuilders or their close associates.

The 3 UFC Polish built vessels are also very interesting as they were just variants of the class of 20 of Gdanska B437 reefers built between 1974 & 1980.

The first 12, numbered B437/01 - B437/12, were built for the soviets & were completely built in Poland. 

The next 3 were numbered B437/313 - B437/315. These were the 3 RIOs & they were built at Gdansk to the accounts of US based finance houses for demise charter to Empresa Hondurena de Vapores with guarantees from UFC.

The next 2 were numbered B437/441 - 442 & were built for Latvian Shg. Co.

The final 3 were numbered 116 & 117 completed at Gdansk for the Polish Shg. Association but with hulls built by ****nal do Alfiete of Almada, Portugal & 264 also completed at Gdansk for the same owner but with the hull built by Lisnave at Lisbon.

All 20 of these vessels had a Sulzer 8RND68 oil engine of 13,200bhp by H. Cegielski of Poznan.

Always a pleasure,
Tony.


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## Rory

Hi Tony;

Thanks a Bunch for all the info on the big Diesels for these two classes of Reefer Boats.

There is a "Works List" up on the web for that particular ship builder. Not sure exactly how to put the LINK here, but copied the stuff and inserted it herein. Does show the 20 Banana Boats and their names, but not much of anything else.

Stocznia Gdańska - lista referencyjna764, B437/13, REEFER VESSEL, 5600, RIO CUYAMEL, UNITED BRANDS CO. 1978. 765, B466/03, GENERAL CARGO VESSEL, 16800, STRATHEWE, P & O STEAM NAVIGATION CO. ...
www.stocznia.gda.pl/PL/referencjepl.html - 207k - 


I'll get back to you a little later in the week as the early week is a madhouse around here.

Cheers,
Rory


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## Rory

*Test*

Just TESTING something, Rory


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## Rory

*The ORIGEN / OREGON Resolved*

Hi All;

I have just received the news from a good friend in Norway, Arne Sognnes. The results are as I suspected: *Two Different Ships*. I could never see how that ORIGEN based on the photograph could accomodate twenty passengers. Unless, of course, they were "*Boarding the Gang*" to Starboard, and "*Walking The Plank*" to Port. I'll let you read what Arne has to say.

*Dear Rory,

I have tried to check up your OREGON/ORIGEN-vessel, and found out that it is not the same vessel. ORIGEN was built some years earlier than OREGON, in 1886, and was Norwegian-flagged from 1899 until her loss in 1915. I am enclosing the history for each of these two vessels, as they are listed in the Starke/Schell-registers from World Ship Society.*

I have combined, and edited the pages from these wonderful registers to show us the available information.

Cheers,
Rory


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## quogh

Knut said:


> We have had many strange names on Norwegian ships, but ORIGEN just does not make sense. (EEK)
> Knut


Hagb. Waage Oslo had Origen( bought 1899) build as Gloamin in 1866


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## theshipyard

*Verona 1903*

Hi, This is a very old thread that I just came across....a bit late, but if anyone is still interested in the VERONA of 1903, apparently Norwegian and chartered to the United Fruit Co. Attached is a photo of her bell which has been in my collection for some years now. Ran across it on the South Coast of England. 

The Shipyard


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