# Classification Society Surveyors



## Binnacle (Jul 22, 2005)

Serving on a Japanese built 'Freedom class' vessel, I was advised by a marine classification society surveyor not to "drive"* the ship. Prior to that I was under the impression that if a surveyor considered that if a vessel's structure was such that it would not be prudent to "drive" a vessel than it's certificate of seaworthiness should be rescinded or restricted. What is the opinion of any marine surveyor members or others ?. (Read). 

* to proceed against adverse weather conditions"


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## OilJiver (Jun 30, 2014)

(Thought I'd already replied to this - apologies if this appears twice).

The certificate of class isn't a certificate of seaworthiness as such. It's a confirmation that a vessel has been built, equipped (propulsion fit etc) and maintained in accordance with the Classification Societies rules, appertaining to the type of vessel and where/how it is to be operated. The vessel will be either "in class" or "out of class".

Surely instruction/advice "not to proceed against adverse weather conditions" would mean a change of notation was on the cards?


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## Cutsplice (May 23, 2008)

Sometimes surveyors at times put a condition of class on a vessel for some reason or other, not normally a serious defect, sometimes it might be a temporary repair to something or other.
I was on a vessel and the next vessel astern of us was being surveyed, when he finished he visited us for a spot check. He found a sea valve in the engine room with a cement box on it, this valve was below the water line (stating the obvious as it was a sea v/v) . If we did not change it we would be out of class, luckily we were a tanker light ship, so we went to anchor ballasted forward to get her down by the head and clear the v/v above the water line. The v/v was changed and we remained in class, I got a bollocking from the Kremlin about the V/v situation, although the C/E kept quiet about it to me, so I then bollocked the C/E, then we had a beer or two no hard feelings between us.


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## OilJiver (Jun 30, 2014)

Similarly, I've knocked around in some old tonnage having multiple conditions of class/memos on both hull and machinery. Dependent upon severity, these would require rectification within a given timescale or possibly subject to monitoring only. I'm sure this will be familiar to many of us here.

However, the advice given about the operation of this vessel in adverse weather would seem to indicate a "Service Area Restriction". (I.e a change in notation - temporary perhaps)


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## Binnacle (Jul 22, 2005)

OilJiver said:


> (Thought I'd already replied to this - apologies if this appears twice).
> 
> The certificate of class isn't a certificate of seaworthiness as such. It's a confirmation that a vessel has been built, equipped (propulsion fit etc) and maintained in accordance with the Classification Societies rules, appertaining to the type of vessel and where/how it is to be operated. The vessel will be either "in class" or "out of class".
> 
> Surely instruction/advice "not to proceed against adverse weather conditions" would mean a change of notation was on the cards?


Sorry -
The surveyor did not advise me "not to proceed against adverse weather conditions", he merely used the words not to "drive the ship". The * was my understanding of the nautical term added in case any SM member questioned the meaning of "drive".


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## OilJiver (Jun 30, 2014)

Well I guess if the vessel was in class and not subject to any condition/restriction etc, it would seem as if he was (inappropriately)offering the master some advice on good seamanship?

Seems strange. I've always got on well with class surveyors and generally regard them highly. (Not _always_ the case with the other guys).


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## Binnacle (Jul 22, 2005)

My respect for classification surveyors was later restored when I called in a classification society surveyor prior to loading in Charleston S.C., he wisely advised me "not to sail the ship" 
After three days of continuous repairs in the for'd deep tank, temporary repairs were completed and a restricted certificate was issued permitting us to load and sail to a UK port. The vessel then proceeded in ballast to a continental port for permanent repairs. I had previously been informed by a director that if the owners of the vessel requested that the master be replaced then they, as personnel managers, would do so. Needless to say I was relieved on arrival back in the UK, as was the chief engineer, who had shared my concerns about the vessels seaworthiness. However we were merely conveniently given leave and reappointed elsewhere. The possibility of my consulting a DTI surveyor regarding my concerns no doubt limited their actions.

Happy Days 

http://www.shipsnostalgia.com/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/392493/title/heavy-weather-wna/cat/510


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## OilJiver (Jun 30, 2014)

Quote, "I had previously been informed by a director that if the owners of the vessel requested that the master be replaced then they, as personnel managers, would do so".

I think all such as these would benefit greatly from a trip across the Winter North Atlantic (or similar region) every now and then.


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## Julian Calvin (Feb 2, 2011)

Would appreciate comments on the following.
Recently been involved with inspections of a Jack Up barge in a long term 'jacked up' position.
Vessel is classed as an "Offshore Support Vessel".
Recently, although five year dry docking is due, Class Surveyor renewed for a further two years.
The following comments were made by the surveyor (one of IACS).
1. When jacked up the craft is not a ship/vessel
2. When surveyed for classification purposes Hull and Machinery are inspected and this was done.
3. Jack-up legs do not form part of this survey

Surely, when jacked up, legs are probably the most important part of structure to be examined. (have seen a number of leg failures)
Is there a definitive clarification anywhere re these vessels?
Know that American Coast Guard have completely different rules when these vessels operating in the Gulf. Flag state of vessel does not have clear rules either.
Would appreciate comments.


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## Julian Calvin (Feb 2, 2011)

Re previous post. Forgot to add that, when afloat, vessel is twin screw power driven vessel but does not have lifeboats installed. Surveyor stated that these not required for 'jack-ups'.


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## chadburn (Jun 2, 2008)

Able found to their cost that when legs are involved they are a Marine Structure and not a vessel by High Court Judgement.


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## david freeman (Jan 26, 2006)

*Drive*



Binnacle said:


> Sorry -
> The surveyor did not advise me "not to proceed against adverse weather conditions", he merely used the words not to "drive the ship". The * was my understanding of the nautical term added in case any SM member questioned the meaning of "drive".


This has no time frame are you speaking just after the Vessels rounding the Cape of Good Hope, and recieving stove in bows and forecastle decks due to shipping green water. This caused a stir in the 70's in the shipping world. The actual ships were I think tankers and container Vessels rounding the Cape while Suez was closed in the height of the winter season off South Africa?(H)(Ouch). Uppermost was scheduling of the ship and frieght rates Maybe lead to ships being driven rather than sailed/navigated with the weather in mind?


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## Binnacle (Jul 22, 2005)

(Ouch)(Bounce)


david freeman said:


> This has no time frame are you speaking just after the Vessels rounding the Cape of Good Hope, and recieving stove in bows and forecastle decks due to shipping green water. This caused a stir in the 70's in the shipping world. The actual ships were I think tankers and container Vessels rounding the Cape while Suez was closed in the height of the winter season off South Africa?(H)(Ouch). Uppermost was scheduling of the ship and frieght rates Maybe lead to ships being driven rather than sailed/navigated with the weather in mind?


!974/75. North Atlantic. Trading WCUK- ECUSA. Westward passages in ballast. Bulk grain carrier. Always mindful of the weather, even rigged Spanish Windlasses to support free standing transceiver in radio room. Lost confidence in designers of vibration mountings and ship slamming tables. 

Happy Days (Bounce)


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## OilJiver (Jun 30, 2014)

Yes, the Spanish windlass has restrained many a piece of kit from going walkabout. Not _exactly_ a Class approved repair, but a means to keep you out of the do-do until you can do a proper fix. Happy days indeed (looking back of course).


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## DURANGO (Aug 22, 2005)

I still use a Spanish windlass even to this day I used one to clamp a 4 poster bed that I was making for my daughter when she was 3 years old regards to all hands Dave .


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## Donald McGhee (Apr 5, 2005)

DURANGO said:


> I still use a Spanish windlass even to this day I used one to clamp a 4 poster bed that I was making for my daughter when she was 3 years old regards to all hands Dave .


Spanish windlass was the usual lashing on the wee Donaldson boats in the cargo holds, especially on cars that tended to "shift" on the western ocean run in winter. A most useful piece of gear, easily constructed and very effective.


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