# Wrist problems from sending morse?



## rknibbs (Mar 11, 2006)

Have other ex-R/O's suffered from carpal tunnel syndrome or ulnar nerve constriction? I do and I'm not sure whether it is down to sending morse or operating keyboards, typewriters and computers. What do others think?


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## Tai Pan (Mar 24, 2006)

There is no answer to that


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## RayL (Apr 16, 2008)

I didn't detect any such problem when I was an R/O years ago but today, 45 years later, I do get warning signs. My impression is that it can be caused by allowing one's hand to rest on the desk or keyboard for longish periods whilst one's attention is on the screen (pressure and deformation?). I've learned to be aware of it and so have kept out of trouble thus far.


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## teb (May 23, 2008)

rknibbs said:


> Have other ex-R/O's suffered from carpal tunnel syndrome or ulnar nerve constriction? I do and I'm not sure whether it is down to sending morse or operating keyboards, typewriters and computers. What do others think?


Now you got me thinking-- I have had Carpal Tunnel Syndrome surgery- unfortunately for me the surgery went wrong and I,m left with 3 fingers that don't quite belong to me now !!!!!!(Whaaa)


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## RayL (Apr 16, 2008)

No real need to associate it with our old job because LOTS of people get it!


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## charles henry (May 18, 2008)

RayL said:


> No real need to associate it with our old job because LOTS of people get it!


I agree with this, I got it from playing tenor banjo.... very very
painfull afliction.

de Chas


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## Hugh MacLean (Nov 18, 2005)

teb said:


> Now you got me thinking-- I have had Carpal Tunnel Syndrome surgery- unfortunately for me the surgery went wrong and I,m left with 3 fingers that don't quite belong to me now !!!!!!(Whaaa)


I had this surgery done to my left wrist about 7 or 8 years ago thankfully it was successful - I don't know what caused the initial problem although i have continued using computers/keyboards since I left the navy. It wasn't the morse key as I am right handed.
Regards


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## NoMoss (Mar 14, 2007)

I had problems with sending morse after I broke my right wrist in a car accident. It eventually got more or less better but as I get older I find that I get aches in places where I have had injuries in the past. I do a lot of editing on the computer and found that using a normal mouse made my hand ache. I now have a scrolling-thumb mouse which is much better for my wrist. (if I use it too much my thumb aches instead!)


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## sparkie2182 (May 12, 2007)

"I got it from playing tenor banjo.... very very
painfull afliction"


Yes, that IS an affliction.


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## charles henry (May 18, 2008)

sparkie2182 said:


> "I got it from playing tenor banjo.... very very
> painfull afliction"
> 
> 
> Yes, that IS an affliction.


Touche (Applause)(Applause)(Applause)

chas


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## Thats another Story (Mar 4, 2009)

ask your doctor for a cortisone injection i had the same problem in my wrists due to plastering for years it worked a treat hope it helps .john


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## Sister Eleff (Nov 28, 2006)

Any repetitive wrist action, over a long period, can cause this problem. Think of painters, and yes plasterers. It didn't happen so much when using typewriters apparently because the typist needed to shift the carriage at the end of each line, which was enough to change the angle of the wrist momentarily. Nowadays, we just keep typing and forget to do a few wrist exercises. Although the problem occurs mainly in the wrist, it can also be a problem at the elbow and shoulder.


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## John Dryden (Sep 26, 2009)

I know a plasterer who has tennis elbow, but yet to meet a tennis player with plasterers elbow!


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## NoR (Mar 24, 2008)

> Any repetitive wrist action, over a long period,


Careful now.


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## Oz. (Sep 6, 2005)

Sis is quite correct, Carpel Tunnel Syndrome is another name for Repetitive Strain Injury, caused by repetitive movement. I was an Engineer but I can imagine that using a morse key would be very likely to be a cause of CPS. I have had surgery on my left wrist for CTS, and it was very succesful and not at all painful. Now my right wrist is heading the same way which I can only put down to using a mouse for long periods. But, who knows? I also had problems with my right elbow but injections eased that and have had no more problems with it. It may also have been caused by excessive use of a Tennants top end spanner in years gone by.


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## John Briggs (Feb 12, 2006)

Sister Eleff said:


> Any repetitive wrist action, over a long period, can cause this problem.



I thought everyone's mothers warned them about this and the growing of hairs on your palm.
It could send you blind too!


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## billyboy (Jul 6, 2005)

yes JB. winding ones automatic watch can cause eye weakness. Now wheres my glasses...LOL


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## ernhelenbarrett (Sep 7, 2006)

Always remember my No.1 R/O on Karanja listening to my morse then widening the gap on the key and telling me I would have a sore wrist if I used a narrow gap, nerve sending he called it and I reckon Nobby Clarke the No.1 was right as my wrist never bothered me, you can get up a nice rythm with a wide gap on the key too.
Ern Barrett


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## NoMoss (Mar 14, 2007)

John Briggs said:


> I thought everyone's mothers warned them about this and the growing of hairs on your palm.
> It could send you blind too!


That must be why I have to wear glasses now!


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## Ivor Lloyd (Jul 18, 2005)

I had Carpal Tunnel surgery last Thursday but mine seems to be connected with my Diabetes !
Too early yet to know result. Stitches come out on Friday.
Typing this with left hand


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## trotterdotpom (Apr 29, 2005)

John Briggs said:


> I thought everyone's mothers warned them about this and the growing of hairs on your palm.
> It could send you blind too!


Oh no, Carpel Tunnel Vision?

John T.


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## NoR (Mar 24, 2008)

*Copper band*

I developed joint pain in my right shoulder and elbow. Then I got one of those copper bracelets been wearing it now for five years. Must work, the problem has gone away.


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## Shipbuilder (Jun 30, 2005)

When I first went in passenger ships in 1965 (went to sea in early 61) I quickly developed problems when sending for long periods became a pain. Alway getting the usual from Portishead "You are slurring your dots get the chief!" Such statements didn't help as I would never dream of disturbing his pipe-smoking and frowning in the R/T section (out of view of passengers) and it only made my morse even worse. Chief objected to bug keys as well. Eventually, chief had a voyage off and 2nd went up to chief. On arrival Cape Town, he told me to get myself up to Hamrad and get a bug key. I did so and after about a week, found that I could send morse again without pain. At the end of voyage, chief returned and his replacement degenerated to 2nd again. By prior arrangement, I was in the W/T section sending a pile of messages when 2nd manouvered chief in and remarked on my improved sending. Chief looked in, saw bug key, listened to morse & just said "mmmh great improvement "and the bug was allowed to remain.
Used one for next 20 years and never had any more pain in wrist. 
Bob


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## jmcg (Apr 20, 2008)

Yes -playing my 5 string banjo for more than 35 years has taking its toll. Can hardly play it at all in the cold weather although the doctor says it is rhumatism. But only in right hand. CTS is a well known injury resulting from use of keyboards without adequate wrist supports and frequent breaks in activity.

BW

J(Gleam)(Gleam)


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## Sister Eleff (Nov 28, 2006)

NoR said:


> I developed joint pain in my right shoulder and elbow. Then I got one of those copper bracelets been wearing it now for five years. Must work, the problem has gone away.


I haven't heard of the copper bracelets working for RSI (repetitive strain injury) but does seem to work for arthritic type of problems. Anything is worth a try though.


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## Rhodri Mawr (Jul 6, 2008)

Never really considered this until this thread appeared. For a while, I did have some trouble sending certain characters on the morse key, in particular the letter L. Unfortunately, at the time, I was on a ship with the callsign GNGL - invariably ended up sending the callsign of our sister ship which was GNGR.

To make matters even worse, the Master of the ship would insist on ending every message sent to the shipping company with the words ALL WELL!!

I must have driven the ops at Portishead around the bend trying to send those words during that awkward spell. Got over it I'm pleased to say so it was probably not the same as the Sister is alluding to.

Cheers
Rhodri


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## Rhodri Mawr (Jul 6, 2008)

Shipbuilder said:


> When I first went in passenger ships in 1965 (went to sea in early 61) I quickly developed problems when sending for long periods became a pain. Alway getting the usual from Portishead "You are slurring your dots get the chief!"


Bob
If you were "slurring the dots" did that ship by any chance have the Marconi Globespan transmitter? Whenever I sailed with that piece of kit, I always had the same problem. I got around it by using an electronic bug key and adjusting the dot length control to the minimum setting. That compensated for the keying problem associated with the Globespan which always had a tendency to elongate the dots to the point where they were blurred.

Never got to the bottom of that problem but I believe it was down to a CR time constant problem associated with the keying valve.

Cheers
Rhodri


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## kewl dude (Jun 1, 2008)

Attached a collage of four pictures, of the 327 pictures on my machine saved off SN, dated 2002 showing among other things an R/O sending with his big toe.

Greg Hayden


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## trotterdotpom (Apr 29, 2005)

Digital transmission?


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## Billieboy (May 18, 2009)

trotterdotpom said:


> Digital transmission?


Which one went to Market?


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## billyboy (Jul 6, 2005)

kewl dude said:


> Attached a collage of four pictures, of the 327 pictures on my machine saved off SN, dated 2002 showing among other things an R/O *sending with his big toe.*
> 
> Greg Hayden



So, he maybe suffered with "Metatarsal tunnel syndrome" then


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## NoMoss (Mar 14, 2007)

I have heard of people being told to 'use other foot'.


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## mikeg (Aug 24, 2006)

My wrist used to get a bit 'tired' sending long messages like victualling ones but once I got a fully auto bug key I could send for hours without feeling any strain.
It made sending a breeze especially OBS B\)


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## Shipbuilder (Jun 30, 2005)

Rhodri,
Yes, it was a Globespan aboard the WINDSOR CASTLE. Prior to that aboard RICHMOND CASTLE with Oceanspan, I never had any problems. Several years before with Siemens gear never had any problems either. The fact that Portishead kept carping on with "you are slurring your dots, get the chief," made me even worse and it soon began preying on my mind. Whenever I came across a bad sender, I prided myself that I could read it as long as it vaguely resembled morse and I never complained to them because I knew from experience it would make them even worse! Apart from that, my wrist started hurting as well, but it may have all been in the mind.
Bob


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## roythwa (Jul 15, 2009)

They used to tell us it was Morse wrist and we would get over it so we did sorry old chum if you suffered but I thought that I was just using muscles that weren't used to it and after a bit was OK

Roy


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## roythwa (Jul 15, 2009)

NoMoss said:


> That must be why I have to wear glasses now!


Yeh well I had Lasik Surgery around 1999 cost me 5 grand.

HoHo(Fly)



Roy


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## ernhelenbarrett (Sep 7, 2006)

QFT = Please send with other foot
QAK = You have a duck on your aerial
Ern Barrett


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## billyboy (Jul 6, 2005)

Just out of interest. How many of you RO's who were good at morse were able to read morse sent by aldis from an RN ship?...to me it was just a vibrating light as it was so fast.


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## Gareth Jones (Jul 13, 2007)

billyboy said:


> Just out of interest. How many of you RO's who were good at morse were able to read morse sent by aldis from an RN ship?...to me it was just a vibrating light as it was so fast.


 I only tried it once - an RN ship called us in the Western Approaches and the 2nd mate called me to help.

I had no difficulty reading it and writing it straight onto a pad but oddly I had no idea of the intelligence of the actual words he sent ! (reading by ear I could always read the message as it went along) 

The 2nd mate (who was a fast sender but not so good at receiving ) was reading my copy and sending the replies !


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## mikeg (Aug 24, 2006)

In the early days I got on fine as I got quite a bit of Aldis practice. My brain seemed to convert light to sound in my head, so it was usually fairly easy, dependent on the quality of the sent morse. Latterly some mates just signalled back VHF which defeated the whole object.


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## Naytikos (Oct 20, 2008)

Like R651400 I used to do it at every opportunity (use the aldis, I mean!). There were some ports where the harbourmaster/pilot station only used aldis (whether because they had no VHF or to avoid language difficulties, I don't know), Genova and Marmagao come immediately to mind. 
Of course just about everyone will have spoken the Lloyds signal station at Gib. on the light.
I only ever met one second mate who was comfortable with morse, and he had been an assistant scout-master.


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## BOB GARROCH (Oct 10, 2008)

I have the same problem with my feet. I think it was being on watch with my feet on the desk, reading lois lamour cowboy books.


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## BOB GARROCH (Oct 10, 2008)

i could read navy Aldis. One very dark night coming out of Danang during the Vietnam War. A ship about 1.5 miles away (Radar) called with a message. We did not understand the code. International signals book indicated it Was "alter course you are sailing into danger". Bull**** was the Captains response. Too Late. USS Battelship New Jersey fired many times through the bridge into targets in Southern Vietnam. I will never forget the awsome power and sound of those 16" shells going through my brain. and the flames that singed my eyebrows. We crept away with our tails behind our legs.


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## Rhodri Mawr (Jul 6, 2008)

ernhelenbarrett said:


> QFT = Please send with other foot
> QAK = You have a duck on your aerial
> Ern Barrett


QLF = stop sending with your left foot

Cheers
Rhodri (Jester)


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## trotterdotpom (Apr 29, 2005)

R651400 said:


> Did all the aldis work when freelance and never found it a problem except receiving an acknowledging "dit" at the end of each and every word (or was it each letter) instead of at the end the entire message as in radio.


Pretty sure it was a dash (letter T) that was sent as acknowledgement of each word.

For long messages, it was handy to have two people one to read and call out the letter and another to write it down. I believe that's what happened in the navy.

John T.


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## Duncan112 (Dec 28, 2006)

trotterdotpom said:


> Pretty sure it was a dash (letter T) that was sent as acknowledgement of each word.
> 
> For long messages, it was handy to have two people one to read and call out the letter and another to write it down. I believe that's what happened in the navy.
> 
> John T.


The receiving dash was the signal for the sending ship to transmit the next group. Heard one tale that some RN signalmen used to leave their lantern continiously lit implying that they could receive as fast as the other ship could send


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## RayL (Apr 16, 2008)

I can only recall one occasion when I used the Aldis lamp to communicate with a passing vessel (egged on by my pal the 3/O). Unfortunately the navigating officer I was sending to could not keep up with my speed despite efforts to slow down madly on my part. This will be why I never picked the d***n thing up again, no doubt.


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## keithsparks (Sep 1, 2009)

I have heard it all now blaming the transmitter for ones bad morse how the hell did you pass your practical in the first place ha ha.You should only send as fast as you can receive then there is no prob as for the aldis i too liked using it but not in a force ten on the wing of a tugs bridge in the middle of the western ocean.


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## Jack Lynch (Apr 12, 2006)

To avoid this problem use "Morse code translator" on web. You can send as fast as you like and beautiful morse. All U got you got to do is use computer keyboard and now just sit back and remember your code!


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## charles henry (May 18, 2008)

*High speed point to point morse*

Anyone work with high speed (about 300/500 wpm) morse using punched tape for sending and an "undulater" for receiving.

Strangely you could read the message heading (By memory government msgs were F) and the serial number of the message by ear even at those speeds. The sending operators used the Z code (ZST send slips twice etc) along with "word" codes, only remember DADRO but forget what it meant.

It was tedious, tiresome work sitting with the tape being pulled through a guide rail on the typewriter with you sitting typing like fury trying to beat the tape piling up on the floor.

The only really unhappy period of my life....
de Chas


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