# Channel ferry doors 'left open' (BBC News)



## SN NewsCaster (Mar 5, 2007)

Watertight doors on a cross-Channel ferry were regularly left open while the vessel was at sea, according to an accident report.

More from BBC News...


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## Coastie (Aug 24, 2005)

Will they never learn?


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## R58484956 (Apr 19, 2004)

For such gross negligence they should take away the masters ticket and sack anybody else who was involved.


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## Ray Mac (Sep 22, 2007)

Better still stop them operating on the cross channel service.(Thumb) (Cloud)


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## Satanic Mechanic (Feb 23, 2009)

Guys - its engine room doors not a bow door. anyone one who has ever worked with them will know just how nervous they make people, in saying that they should be shut but it really is not that big a deal compared to a bow door.


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## Billieboy (May 18, 2009)

*Idiots at Sea!*



R58484956 said:


> For such gross negligence they should take away the masters ticket and sack anybody else who was involved.


100% in agreement!(Thumb) 

I was at sea on the Vlissingen Sheerness ferry returning to Holland, we sailed past the, "Herald", as the local rescue services were busy trying to get the survivors out of the water. One of my worst nights at sea!(Cloud)

SM, fair's fair, but if standing operation orders state, that the door should be closed, then CLOSED it must be!


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## ROBERT HENDERSON (Apr 11, 2008)

Satanic Mechanic said:


> Guys - its engine room doors not a bow door. anyone one who has ever worked with them will know just how nervous they make people, in saying that they should be shut but it really is not that big a deal compared to a bow door.


Once again the voice of reason. I remember them on the Harwich ferries, before the days of ro-ros, and can remeber that if closed they could be opened locally, and you had to dive through pretty quick before you got squashed as they automatically closed. As SM says they are pretty scary.I could stand corrected on this, but I understand that they could be closed from the Bridge in an emergency, so unlike bow or stern doors it was not imperative that they were kept closed all the time.

Regards Robert


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## Satanic Mechanic (Feb 23, 2009)

Billie

Of course they should be closed but not for a second is it like the Herald of Free Enterprise or can ever be construed as such. It is poor reporting from the BBC.

I can fully appreciate why they would be in local control though - they are seriously scary bits of kit


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## Satanic Mechanic (Feb 23, 2009)

ROBERT HENDERSON said:


> Once again the voice of reason. I remember them on the Harwich ferries, before the days of ro-ros, and can remeber that if closed they could be opened locally, and you had to dive through pretty quick before you got squashed as they automatically closed. As SM says they are pretty scary.I could stand corrected on this, but I understand that they could be closed from the Bridge in an emergency, so unlike bow or stern doors it was not imperative that they were kept closed all the time.
> 
> Regards Robert


Absolutely correct Robert, you open them all the time at sea to gain access to compartments, to be on the safe side you have to follow a definite procedure, there are all sorts of horror stories, real and anecdotal about these doors.

Without wanting to appear patronising, just so as we all know what we are talking about here. These are doors between engine room compartments not open to the sea and about the size of an accommodation door


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## Dickyboy (May 18, 2009)

Had them on the passenger ships I was on (Of course) and if I remember on the Andes the lever to operate them locally was on the opposite side to which the door closed too. If trapped between closing door and bulkhead you stood no chance. I might be wrong, but I don't think so, and if the WTD bells started to ring their warnings it was scary. I always used to open the doors fully before stepping through. This was on the working alleyway, a dark and gloomy place on that ship.
Generally they were left open, and only closed for drills or inclement weather.


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## Satanic Mechanic (Feb 23, 2009)

Pretty much the same Dicky I always opened them fully, reached through and held the control handle on the other side of the door in the open position before stepping through. The thought of getting stuck in one of them is horrifying. 

In terms of the report though it would be a pretty wild sequence of events before ships safety was compromised


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## Dickyboy (May 18, 2009)

Satanic Mechanic said:


> Pretty much the same Dicky I always opened them fully, reached through and held the control handle on the other side of the door in the open position before stepping through. The thought of getting stuck in one of them is horrifying.
> 
> In terms of the report though it would be a pretty wild sequence of events before ships safety was compromised


I agree with your last statement, and I don't know if it is a requirement for these doors to always be closed at sea. It wouldn't have worked on the Pazzie boats, in the Working Alleyway, as this area was the main artery through the ship, giving access to virtually all the working parts of the ships.
I see that the BBC report uses the words "Potentially Compromised" That seems to be a bit of a cover all statement, as almost anything can "Potentially" happen.
I do think that the WTDs should have been centrally controlled though, with a local control for over riding when passing through.


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## Satanic Mechanic (Feb 23, 2009)

Dickyboy said:


> I agree with your last statement, and I don't know if it is a requirement for these doors to always be closed at sea. It wouldn't have worked on the Pazzie boats, in the Working Alleyway, as this area was the main artery through the ship, giving access to virtually all the working parts of the ships.
> I see that the BBC report uses the words "Potentially Compromised" That seems to be a bit of a cover all statement, as almost anything can "Potentially" happen.
> I do think that the WTDs should have been centrally controlled though, with a local control for over riding when passing through.


I agree if they are fitted then they should be set up to work properly but as you say lets not get carried away with the potential danger here, it really was miniscule


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## Dickyboy (May 18, 2009)

I think there is more danger for an individual passing through a closed door during normal conditions, than by leaving them open.
To close them it should only mean hitting the tit, which would only take a second, and another 30 or so for them to fully close.


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## Satanic Mechanic (Feb 23, 2009)

Sorry should have clarified that, the danger to the vessel was minuscule, danger to anybody using the doors is greater


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## Coastie (Aug 24, 2005)

Satanic Mechanic said:


> Billie
> 
> Of course they should be closed but not for a second is it like the Herald of Free Enterprise or can ever be construed as such. *It is poor reporting from the BBC.*
> 
> I can fully appreciate why they would be in local control though - they are seriously scary bits of kit



Poor reporting by the BBC?????? 

I have never heard such rubbish! Said a Coastguard who works for the RNLI!!(Jester) (Jester)


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## Billieboy (May 18, 2009)

*Watertight doors on ferries.*

One day in the early '70s I took an evening flight to Bremen for engine trials on a BP tanker the next morning, the chap sitting next to me was also going to Bremerhaven, it being his first visit, I gave him a lift in the taxi to the station and we caught the train down to Bremerhaven. Got chatting on the train, he was inspecting the, "Irish Princess", for acceptance and he asked me to drop in the next afternoon if I'd finished trials. 

When trials had been completed and the job signed off, I went down to the Columbus quay and arrived at a quarter to one, The mate was waiting at the gangplank, gave me a boiler suit, hat, gloves and torch, then led me off to where my travelling companion of the night before was waiting, turned out that he was the Irish Govt. Ship Examiner, who was inspecting the ship prior to issuance of a safety/passenger certificate. I did the full survey from ER floor plates to the monkey island binnacle. In the passenger accommodation we inspected the watertight doors and the emergency operation of same, where I was asked to close and open a door, a simple operation for any seafarer, or passenger who could read the instructions in English, German, or French. This was the bit of the survey which I could not agree with, as one had to be able to read in one of the three languages. What, I asked, would happen if someone could only read Chinese, Russian, Spanish or another language? we had a fairly heavy discussion on this point, with the result that a year or so later I received a letter from him saying that door operation was now laid out diagrammatically with NO written instructions! (Thumb)


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## Dickyboy (May 18, 2009)

Billyboy,
On a similar line, I work on a high speed ferry, and no passenger is allowed outside on deck during the crossing. On a few occasions passengers do go outside, and are swiftly told to go back inside. The signage on external doors says either "No exit while at sea" or "No Exit unless authorised" When dragging someone, or a crowd in, I always point out the signs. Often the culprit will say "No speeka da engleesh" I then point out the International diagrammatic sign for No Exit. (Red circle with red diagonal line) That stumps 'em! argument won


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## dondoncarp (Feb 26, 2006)

some ships have category A,And category B below deck watertight doors or similar systems.
Catergory A maybe opened for only long enough to pass through,B can be left opened but un obstructed
It varies between companies but ends with the same objective,to stop more than one compartment flooding in a collision


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## Satanic Mechanic (Feb 23, 2009)

Coastie said:


> Poor reporting by the BBC??????
> 
> I have never heard such rubbish! Said a Coastguard who works for the RNLI!!(Jester) (Jester)


What they done was against the rules but lets not get carried away with implications. It was not an external door or anything. Get a bit of perspective


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