# Signal



## Dennis Penny (Nov 1, 2012)

The attached photograph shows one of the ferries that operated on the Firth of Forth up to 1964. I have a web site which details the history of these ferries (www.QueensferryPassage.co.uk). I would like to add to the site an explanation regarding the 3 discs/balls (?) that are attached to the mast but it is proving difficult to obtain an explanation regarding this signal. Can anyone please help.
Further photographs which may help are in the gallery section of my web site.
Thank You,
Dennis Penny


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## R58484956 (Apr 19, 2004)

Greetings* Dennis *and welcome to* SN*. Bon voyage.


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## Binnacle (Jul 22, 2005)

Dennis Penny said:


> I would like to add to the site an explanation regarding the 3 discs/balls (?) that are attached to the mast but it is proving difficult to obtain an explanation regarding this signal. Can anyone please help.
> Further photographs which may help are in the gallery section of my web site.
> Thank You,
> Dennis Penny


I may well be wrong Dennis but I suspect it indicates a vessel navigating stern foremost.


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## joebuckham (Apr 1, 2005)

hi dennis welcome aboard, it should signify a vessel aground in or near a fairway but is possible that it means i am proceeding astern a local signal maybe

best regards


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## Mad Landsman (Dec 1, 2005)

I was lead to understand that the visual signal for navigating astern was:
TWO balls, at the same height on each side of the ship, visible from the stern. 
(Two balls vertical is vessel not under command).

Although I have never found it in writing there are examples in the gallery on this site.
See: http://www.shipsnostalgia.com/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/242444/title/caesarea/cat/502
or: http://www.shipsnostalgia.com/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/310741/title/sarnia/cat/502


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## James_C (Feb 17, 2005)

Mad Landsman said:


> I was lead to understand that the visual signal for navigating astern was:
> TWO balls, at the same height on each side of the ship, visible from the stern.
> (Two balls vertical is vessel not under command).


If memory serves they were actually local regulations as opposed to general convention.


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## joebuckham (Apr 1, 2005)

hi dennis cannot find any update on these thumbnails, which confirm jim's memories about the specifics of the signal. whether they have gone by the board with the advent of all the modern propulsion units making them defunct only a troll through the mca archives would tell

rgds

joe


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## cueball44 (Feb 15, 2010)

Rule 11 paragraph (e) three black balls in a vertical line, ship aground.


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## Mad Landsman (Dec 1, 2005)

joebuckham said:


> hi dennis cannot find any update on these thumbnails, which confirm jim's memories about the specifics of the signal. whether they have gone by the board with the advent of all the modern propulsion units making them defunct only a troll through the mca archives would tell
> 
> rgds
> 
> joe


After all these years I have finally seen it in writing - Thanks!


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## Varley (Oct 1, 2006)

IMO will claim progress has been made towards ensuring universal "always afloat or safe aground" but I don't think so succesfully that the warning shapes are no longer required!

Without looking it up does anyone know if AIS has an appropriate 'condition' indicator?


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## david freeman (Jan 26, 2006)

I was wondering if at night this vessel showed an all round blue light, under the fore masthead light. This I belive useually indicated on restricted waters a cross trade (Ferry?), so the three balls maybe is the daylight signal according to local pilotage laws?


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## M29 (Apr 20, 2007)

Hi All
Is following useful?

Admiralty Manual of Navigation 1967.

"Rule 4.

A vessel engaged in laying or picking up cable or a navigation mark, surveying or underwater operations, or avessel engaged in replenishment at sea or in the launching or recovery of aircraft carries, in lieu of her steaming lights, two all-round red lights with an all round white light between them, each visible at least two miles.

If she is stopped she does not show her bow lights or overtaking light.

By day she hoists two round red shapes with a white diamond shape between them.

Theses lights and shapes indicate that she is unable to get out of the way of approaching vessels"

Thought perhaps your photo shows an adaptation of this, the vessel in question having perhaps limited ability to manouver.

Best wishes

Alan


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## 5036 (Jan 23, 2006)

Dennis Penny said:


> The attached photograph shows one of the ferries that operated on the Firth of Forth up to 1964. I have a web site which details the history of these ferries (www.QueensferryPassage.co.uk). I would like to add to the site an explanation regarding the 3 discs/balls (?) that are attached to the mast but it is proving difficult to obtain an explanation regarding this signal. Can anyone please help.
> Further photographs which may help are in the gallery section of my web site.
> Thank You,
> Dennis Penny


Amother view of your signal

http://www.flickr.com/photos/scottishmaritimemuseum/4878627403/


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