# Can anyone recognise this Blue Funnel ship?



## Andrew Craig-Bennett (Mar 13, 2007)

This is a painting by Kenneth Shoesmith, who I think died in 1939, and the title is “Shanghai, 1930”.

It looks to have been painted with care. 

Can anyone tell me the ship or the class of ship in the picture?


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## jmcg (Apr 20, 2008)

Not a traditional Bluie Andrew. 

Those Samson Posts for'ard and aft of the funnel are particularly out of character for a Bluie. Not even the Silver Line ships that entered Alfie's fleet had posts like those. shown

Fine picture though and much like the works of the later Anthony (Tony) Amos. Tony died about 12 years ago and painted with rags. He was an ex seaman and his works now command a tidy fortune.

God luck with the research.

BW
J


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## Andrew Craig-Bennett (Mar 13, 2007)

Thanks. A “made up” ship, then. Right company for the place, wrong ship. Also, I think Blue Funnel’s “mast colour” was more of a dark ochre rather than buff. 

CNCo’s “mast colour” was, rather oddly, never specified, the Fleet Instructions just specified what bits were to be painted “mast colour”. It was generally taken to be dark red.


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## Stephen J. Card (Nov 5, 2006)

She is one of the BELLEPHERON Class c. 1906. Not an 'exact' image. Lots of the detail is ;correct', like the cowl vents between Nos 1 & 2 hatches. Ken Vard's book, 'Liners in Art' included this book. I was involved with the book. At that time Ken did not have enough information to identify the ship. The wonderful photo books by Clarkson and Fenton, Blue Funnel Line, came out years later! This BELLEROPHON class included ten ships. A lot of these ships went right up until the WW2. These ship had the masts/derricks were for special use on the trans-Pacific run with logs.

Brown's Pocket-Books for Merchant Seamen 1949 Pages 265 & 264
MAST COLOUR: Mast colour paint 2 cwts, boiled oil 5 gals, raw oil 1 gal., terebene 1 gal. turps. varnish 1/2 gal.
Unfortunately it does not specify what colour 'mast colour' was actually was supposed to be! If you go for a real wooden mast the colour would be more of a shade of ochre. To my thought the colour of 'mast colour' would be a traditional 'buff' and that would be ochre with white. 

One colour in the book is 'Fawn colour' :- Burnt Sienna, white lead, OR 1 part umber, 2 parts yellow, 8 parts white and 1 part red. If I was mixing the colour for Blue Funnel masts I would use Burnt Sienna with small white lead. It might appear a mixture of brown and red. 

I agree, Shoesmith got the mast colour wrong as buff. Tsk Tsk! Surprise because Shoesmith went as high as Chief Officer with Royal Mail Lines. Royal Mail masts were brown... about same as Blue Funnel!

Stephen

As cadet I was sent out to mix a pot of 'brown' for bunker line valve handles. I thought it looks fine. The bosun saw and said, "Looks same colour as scared woman's ****e!"

Stephen


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## Andrew Craig-Bennett (Mar 13, 2007)

Thank you very much.


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## Stephen J. Card (Nov 5, 2006)

b


BELLEPHERON 1906 First of class of five batch.


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## Stephen J. Card (Nov 5, 2006)

For Blue Funnel colours I go to a good copy of Lawrence of Arabia. The scene as Lawrence arrives at the Canal after crossing Sinai. Good horn blast and then a Blue Funnel passing. The ship is wrong era (1960s). Beautiful.

Stephen


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## kohl57 (Jul 29, 2006)

Stephen J. Card said:


> For Blue Funnel colours I go to a good copy of Lawrence of Arabia. The scene as Lawrence arrives at the Canal after crossing Sinai. Good horn blast and then a Blue Funnel passing. The ship is wrong era (1960s). Beautiful.
> 
> Stephen


There is a rather similar photo of ORIANA (1960) passing through Suez framed by sand dunes. Love this one










Peter Kohler


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## Andrew Craig-Bennett (Mar 13, 2007)

BELLEROPHON had an exceptionally long life - 42 years, all of it with her original owners.


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## BillH (Oct 10, 2007)

There was also the later and larger Calchas Class, also with goalpost masts. Comparison data below. Could the painting have been a combination of both?

BELLEROPHON (2) (1906 - 1948) Bellerophon class steel steamship.
O.N. 120915. 8,918g. 5,729n. 485.3 x 54.4 x 31.0 feet.
Two T.3-cyl. (23", 38½" & 65" x 48") by the shipbuilder, driving twin propeller shafts. 5,700 IHP. 13½ kts.

DIOMED (4) (1922 - 1952) Calchas class steel steamship.
O.N. 145930. 10,374g. 6,355n. 491.0 x 62.4 x 39.6 feet.
Four steam turbines by the shipbuilder, reduction geared to twin propeller shafts. 6,500 shp. 14½ kts.


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## jmcg (Apr 20, 2008)

Stephen's picture shows BELLEPHERON without aft Sampson posts (goalposts).. Were these an addition or post build removal? The painting shows her with post aft of funnel. Queries here!

BW
J


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## Andrew Craig-Bennett (Mar 13, 2007)

Calchas class:


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## BillH (Oct 10, 2007)

I have checked all the images I have of BELLEROPHON class and all are same configuration aft the funnel. whereas the Calchas class have the aft goalpost


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## Stephen J. Card (Nov 5, 2006)

OK... we can discount any of the CALCHAS from the painting possibilities.
The CALCHAS class have two differences from the BELLEROPHON The midship house seems to be one long house. The BELEROPHON class have broken houses. Stems of the BELEROPHON class have a vertical bar stem. The CALCHAS class have a slight raked stem and slightly round stem.

Four of the BELEROPHON class, TALTHYBIUS, IXION, TYNDAREUS and ACHILLES have goalposts aft.

Shoesmith was being a bit clever. Rather than have the name on the bow, he had decided to not the name at all. Instead he show a lonely AB hanging over the side on a stage. I think the name would have been IXION. Had the other names... like TALTHTHYBIUS the bosun would have sent TWO AB's over the side to paint the name. Too much work for just one AB.  
Stephen


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## Andrew Craig-Bennett (Mar 13, 2007)

Am I safe in thinking that, judging by the number of boats, these ships carried passengers? Blue Funnel certainly had a Simla Rules trade on the Hadj, but given the weather on the North Pacific would there have been deck passengers on this trade?


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## Stephen J. Card (Nov 5, 2006)

Closer inspection. There is a second person on the stage. Must be a small person... probably the Deck Boy with the pot of paint... and just one AB. I'll stay with IXION.


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## Cisco (Jan 29, 2007)

From Blue Funnel Line/Clarkson&Fenton.
'They also carried up to 200 migrants or temporary workers across the Pacific in rather spartan accomodation - note the portholes along the tween decks'

Samesame no doubt to the steerage accomodation on Anking/Anshun

Also for Tyndareus it notes 'In 1949n she was converted to a piligrim ship----making 2 or 3 voyages annually between South East Asia and Jeddah intially with some 2000 pilgrims' .
Photo shows here with about 20 boats.


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## makko (Jul 20, 2006)

It is either Talthybius or Tyndareus.I go with Tyndareus, having had on my mind Theseus. I have a print of the same picture. Yes, two men on the stage, unloading on the buoys. Both names were associated with the Pacific trade, the most recurring being Ulysses, the ship known as the vessel that never went home. Ixion was always associated with the Oz trade from/to UK. Likewise, Achilles was mainly associated with the Far East trade from/to UK. 

The original "blurb" for the picture ascertained that she was a P&O vessel, coaling and unloading clinker!! Ha ha ha!

Rgds.
Dave


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## Andrew Craig-Bennett (Mar 13, 2007)

There is a lot of good detail in the picture - the yulohs, some men retaining the queue, the indigo dyed trousers and jackets.


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## Stephen J Card (Jan 7, 2022)

Dave,
Where did the print come from and with the P&O blurb? The painting has been around for donkey years and it was well known and captioned as a Blue Funnel vessel.

It is a 'magic' painting. Only a marine artist ( with DoT certificate) could pull this one without knowledge!


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## Cisco (Jan 29, 2007)

makko said:


> It is either Talthybius or Tyndareus.I go with Tyndareus, having had on my mind Theseus. I have a print of the same picture. Yes, two men on the stage, unloading on the buoys. Both names were associated with the Pacific trade, the most recurring being Ulysses, the ship known as the vessel that never went home. Ixion was always associated with the Oz trade from/to UK. Likewise, Achilles was mainly associated with the Far East trade from/to UK.
> 
> The original "blurb" for the picture ascertained that she was a P&O vessel, coaling and unloading clinker!! Ha ha ha!
> 
> ...


I would agree re the first two but would not discount Ixion although the post WW2 Ixion was indeed in the Australian trade. Achilles is out because she had a flush bridgefront and those very tall 'Rugby Posts'.
According to Clarkson, Harvey and Fenton the Bellerophon class were 'constructed for the round-the-world service made possible by the aquisition of China Mutual routes. ( this is contradicted in the forward where it says that the China Mutual purchase give them a west coast US to the Far East trade in 1902, the round the world trade followed in 1914/15 with the purchase of the Indra Line and the opening of the Panama Canal.)
(The mast arrangement) 'reflected their need for derricks which had the necessary reach to handle the logs often carried in the trans-Pacific trade.'


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## makko (Jul 20, 2006)

Hi Cisco,

A subject close to my heart - I was on the Barber Blue Sea service, in conjunction with Wilh. Wilhelmsen, a continuation of the Blue Sea Service, which was in fact, originally, the round the world service. Always East! It was a great service to be on, many good runs ashore and varied ports/cultures to experience. The only problem, going eastwards at 21 kts. was that we lost an hours sleep every night when on ocean transit. It wrecked your body clock. 

On one Trans Pacific crossing, the weather cleared after a couple of days and we were to go onto daywork/UMS the next day. After coming off watch at 1600 and having the chance for a good sleep that night, I mingled in the bar, had my dinner and promptly turned in early. I awoke refreshed and checked my watch - 08:15. Flock! I was late to go down below! I quickly got dressed, grabbed my shifter and torch and took the lift to the control room. As I entered, the 2/E looked up surprised, asking what I was doing down below. I apologized profusely for being late, to which he replied, "It's 2000, not 0800!" and then, "Well, seeing as you're down here, go and run a round for the log!". When I got back, he had made coffee and we sat down for a bit of a chat before I went back up, quick beer and back to bed.

Rgds.
Dave


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## jmcg (Apr 20, 2008)

You really were mixed up Makko, Coffee and then a beer. Well don sir!🥴

BW
J


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## DontheDiver (Apr 4, 2016)

kohl57 said:


> There is a rather similar photo of ORIANA (1960) passing through Suez framed by sand dunes. Love this one
> 
> View attachment 693863
> 
> ...


A true ship of the dessert! Great photograph.


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## sparkie2182 (May 12, 2007)

"A true ship of the dessert"

In apple pie order.


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## kohl57 (Jul 29, 2006)

Odd that Kenneth Shoesmith never did (to my knowledge) any of these Suez Canal ship of the desert themed scenes which seem right up his alley. 

Here is a screen grab of the "Lawrence of Arabia" Blue Funnel scene










and the clip:





Peter Kohler


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## sparkie2182 (May 12, 2007)

Fitting for the period.
Lucky it wasnt Michelangelo sailing through.


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## kohl57 (Jul 29, 2006)

My one and only transit to date was in M/n ACHILLE LAURO en route to Durban and it was one of those not too atypical quite chilly days totally at odds with what one expects. That was November 1985. A pix of her transiting at this point with those wonderful funnels would have been quite something.

Peter Kohler


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## makko (Jul 20, 2006)

As you say Peter, chilly. On my first trip/transit, we were tasked with repairing the ER ventilation fan inlet louvres and running the lifeboat engines. We had to borrow the winter jackets used to go in the meat fridge! That was the first week of January.
Rgds.
Dave


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## makko (Jul 20, 2006)

Come to think of it, I have never done a S-N transit of the Suez Canal or an E-W of the Panama Canal!
Rgds.
Dave


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## kohl57 (Jul 29, 2006)

Speaking of chilly Suez transits, the two Shoesmith depictions that come to mind were both unusual nighttime passages with the famous big "headlamp" hung over the bows. That for ASTURIUS is, I think, from her fabled East Indies cruise with Clementine Churchill and co. aboard on her annual "get away from Winston for the winter trip" (!).


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## sparkie2182 (May 12, 2007)

Oriana's "headlamp" port.


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## captainconfusion (Aug 13, 2020)

while playing around with memories as POST~#1 and the title blue flue, I just put my pennies in the water? Was there not a total subsidiary of Alfred HOLT Blue Flue sailing under the dutch flag in the 40,s 50,s.. The ship in the painting what flag???


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## makko (Jul 20, 2006)

CC,

Yes, there was a Dutch company, up until 1982 (?) when the Patroclus was returned to Birkenhead and sold:

_Alfred Holt__ founded the business on 16 January 1866.[2] The main operating subsidiary was the Ocean Steam Ship Company, which owned and operated the majority of the company's vessels.
A Dutch subsidiary, the *Nederlandsche Stoomvaart Maatschappij Oceaan*, was founded in 1891, as was the *East India Ocean Steam Ship Company*, operated from Singapore. This latter was sold in 1899 to Norddeutscher Lloyd. The company acquired the competing *China Mutual Steam Navigation Company* in 1902, keeping it as a subsidiary company but operating it as part of Blue Funnel Line. The company's ships connected the major ports of Shanghai and Hong Kong to Liverpool. The ship's crews were Chinese as well as European. As a consequence, some Chinese seamen settled in Liverpool from the 1860s to found the oldest Chinese community in Europe.[3]
Ships of the Blue Funnel fleet all had names from classical Greek legend or history.[4] The majority were cargo ships, but most of the Ocean SS Co cargo ships also had capacity for a few passengers.[4] The line also had a small number of purely passenger vessels_

There were only a few names constantly used for the NSMO vessels:
ADRASTUS
ALCINOUS
LAERTES
LYCAON
POLYDORUS
POLYPHEMUS
TEIRESIAS
TEUCER

My Dad did his time in Odyssey Works before going to sea and, as a result, worked on almost all classes extant before the arrival of the Super P's: Coal, Oil, steam turbine, steam recip, motor. He also worked by on one of the Scott-Stills vessels, although it was no longer oil+steam! He sailed almost exclusively with the B&W opposed piston engines. While Blue Funnel was known for it's well turned out vessels, both inside and out, my Dad commented that the Dutch vessels were even better, saying that you could eat your dinner off the deck!

All gone now, so it really is a case of Ships Nostalgia!

Rgds.
Dave


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## Cisco (Jan 29, 2007)

I believe they had ships under the Dutch flag so that they could get around cabotage laws in the Dutch East Indies.


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## makko (Jul 20, 2006)

And take on the East Asiatic route which became Blue Sea.
Dave.


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## captainconfusion (Aug 13, 2020)

rattling cages, an uncle {grand pa's brother] was a Liverpool lad and became a seagoing engineer, serving his time with BLUE FLUE, was at some stage involved in the ;;STOP STILL Engine''?? A bold idea but not a success. The Uncle believed in communications between all ranks for the purposes of education and knowledge, and encouraged young engineers to join the Institute Of Marine Engineers, and read their papers from time to time, As an apprentice I personally enjoyed the 'TRANSACTIONS''. in the 50/60,s


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## makko (Jul 20, 2006)

CC,
It was the Scott-Stll engine. There were two versions, both fitted to BF vessels. The first was diesel in the top of the cylinder and steam below. After serious contamination of lub oil, it was decided, for the second prototype, to go with five (?) pure diesel cylinders and three steam cylinders. Neither were a success and were subsequently converted to pure oil engines. The generator prime mover was a steam turbine. At sea, the steam was raised by an exhaust gas economizer. In port, it had it's own donkey boiler. My Dad said it was very finicky and it was a devil to keep "in the blood". If it blacked out, it was a devil of a job to get it going again. Needless to say, working by on nights, there was no danger of Dad nodding off, terrified as he was of the boiler failing. He said that it was a true joy to be relieved in the morning and escape from the engine room!

Do you have a name for your uncle? What years did he sail with BF and at what rank?

Rgds.
Dave


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## captainconfusion (Aug 13, 2020)

makko said:


> CC,
> It was the Scott-Stll engine. There were two versions, both fitted to BF vessels. The first was diesel in the top of the cylinder and steam below. After serious contamination of lub oil, it was decided, for the second prototype, to go with five (?) pure diesel cylinders and three steam cylinders. Neither were a success and were subsequently converted to pure oil engines. The generator prime mover was a steam turbine. At sea, the steam was raised by an exhaust gas economizer. In port, it had it's own donkey boiler. My Dad said it was very finicky and it was a devil to keep "in the blood". If it blacked out, it was a devil of a job to get it going again. Needless to say, working by on nights, there was no danger of Dad nodding off, terrified as he was of the boiler failing. He said that it was a true joy to be relieved in the morning and escape from the engine room!
> 
> Do you have a name for your uncle? What years did he sail with


Sterry Bains Freeman 1930;s


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## makko (Jul 20, 2006)

Thanks, CC.


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## holland25 (Nov 21, 2007)

I sailed on the Alcinous when she was a UK Blue Funnel ship and also returned supernumary from Hongkong, on her ,after she had been transferred to the Dutch part of the company, in 1960. I believe she became the Polydorus. There was another Bluey named Alcinous later on, as I found out when I bought what I thought was a picture of "my " Alcinous. The later one, had, I seem to remember a steel bridge front while the other was teak.


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## thecaptfelix (9 mo ago)

Sailed on the Polydorus and Asphalion in 1974. They were under NSMO the dutch arm of Blue Funnel. Just checked in my Discharge Book but saw that both ships had Liverpool as the Port of Registry. The Asphalion was under Capt. David Easy and the Mate was Nigel Moon. My brother Shanthi was the Senior Second Officer. Very rare to have two brothers serving on the same ship at the same time.I was fourth year cadet going up for my OND phase 3. Had Indonesian crew and used to enjoy the Nasi Gorang which was the standard for Sunday Lunch.


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