# QSMV "Dominion Monarch"



## Fiennesjohn (Jul 14, 2013)

Can anyone suggest where I might find photos of the interiors of the passenger accommodation of this ship? I visited her several times during calls in Melbourne in the early 1950s and thought she was by far the best of the many liners then on the UK-Australia run.


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## holland25 (Nov 21, 2007)

There is quite about her, here ,along with some interiors.

http://www.ssmaritime.com/dominionmonarch.htm


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## Fiennesjohn (Jul 14, 2013)

Many thanks! The ssmaritime site is a real treasure trove as indeed is this site itself. Thanks to you all. John


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## alaric (Feb 27, 2012)

In October 1960 I was an Apprentice Engineer in Persic and we were ratfted alongside Dominion Monarch in the then new Leopolddok Antwerp while her homeward cargo was transferred ship to ship.
There was a Dock Strike in London at the time and the transfer was made in order that DM could maintain her passenger sailing schedule. Persic delivered the cargo, mostly frozen, to London after the strike was called off.
There were no passengers on board DM at the time, I think they had been dropped off at either Southampton or Tilbury so a Junior Purser had time to spare to give Persic's Apprentices a full tour of the public rooms and a couple of the best passenger cabins.
We were impressed to say the least, the comfort and luxury in the very British Country House/Gentlemans Club style was probably unmatched as John states in Post #1 . 
DM only carried just over 500 First Class passengers, so no compromises had to be made to accommodate the Tourist 'hordes'. The space per passenger was very high and is probably matched by only the very best of modern cruise ships.
A wonderful way to travel to the 'Southern Dominions' that only the wealthiest could afford.
Later, I was lucky to sail in Corinthic and Athenic which were smaller, 85 passenger versions on the same theme. A very different age but I remember it fondly.


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## Bill Morrison (May 25, 2013)

Fiennesjohn said:


> Can anyone suggest where I might find photos of the interiors of the passenger accommodation of this ship? I visited her several times during calls in Melbourne in the early 1950s and thought she was by far the best of the many liners then on the UK-Australia run.


There's a small book By Richard P. Kerbrech. The Shaw Savill Line
Images in Mast, Steam and Motor (Ship Pictorial Publications)
Six internal images of the Dominion Monarch.


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## Fiennesjohn (Jul 14, 2013)

Thanks Alaric for that interesting story. Lucky you! She was a beautiful ship, he best that Shaw Savill ever had I think, although the Corinthic and her three sisters were scaled down copies in many ways. I'm jealous of your memories!


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## Fiennesjohn (Jul 14, 2013)

Thanks, Bill: I'll look for Kerbrech's book in the local libraries and bookshops. John


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## jonti (Mar 5, 2008)

*Relative's title.*

I had a family member who I understood was the Staff Captain on Dominion Monarch. I know he sailed on her right through WW2 and later became an Elder of Trinity House and even later something to do with the Maritime Court at the Hague. What was the role of the Staff Captain? jonti


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## Brian Brown (Nov 18, 2007)

*Dm*



alaric said:


> In October 1960 I was an Apprentice Engineer in Persic and we were ratfted alongside Dominion Monarch in the then new Leopolddok Antwerp while her homeward cargo was transferred ship to ship.
> There was a Dock Strike in London at the time and the transfer was made in order that DM could maintain her passenger sailing schedule. Persic delivered the cargo, mostly frozen, to London after the strike was called off.
> There were no passengers on board DM at the time, I think they had been dropped off at either Southampton or Tilbury so a Junior Purser had time to spare to give Persic's Apprentices a full tour of the public rooms and a couple of the best passenger cabins.
> We were impressed to say the least, the comfort and luxury in the very British Country House/Gentlemans Club style was probably unmatched as John states in Post #1 .
> ...


Memories of that situation come back very vividly ... Belfast H and W rushing to prepare Persic for the 'dash' to Antwerp. There seemed to be quite an influx of repair personnel as with sailing staff once the word was given. It was certainly a very carefree few days meeting up with DM Engineersin those so familiar bars.
Memories of the hostility shown by warfies when we finally did start off loading that famous DM cargo
A great trip out to Australasia followed, with Christmas 1960 at sea... yes 'fondly' is very apt ... as usual Dick a great recall

Joe ...


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## alaric (Feb 27, 2012)

Brian Brown said:


> Memories of the hostility shown by warfies when we finally did start off loading that famous DM cargo


They were London Dockers Joe. You really have become an Aussie, even dropped the 'H'!
On my tour of the DM the Purser didn't take us into the Engineroom, just had a quick view of twenty Doxford top pistons from the changing room door. I have always regretted not having a proper look at a truly unique installation.
Did you have a good look at the half Tyne, half Wear engines?


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## alaric (Feb 27, 2012)

jonti said:


> I had a family member who I understood was the Staff Captain on Dominion Monarch. I know he sailed on her right through WW2 and later became an Elder of Trinity House and even later something to do with the Maritime Court at the Hague. What was the role of the Staff Captain? jonti


In my time SS&A had Staff Captains, and Staff Chief Engineers on their 3 large passenger ships, Dominion Monarch, Southern Cross and Northern Star. They had usually sailed as Captains or Chiefs on smaller cargo ships before becoming 'Staffs'. As an example, when I was an Apprentice in Alaric I sailed with Jack Worden on his first trip as Chief, he then went to stand-by Northern Star during her building and sailed as Staff Chief for her first year. I was Junior Engineer during those four voyages.
The 'Staffs' looked after the routine inspections and paperwork, leaving their boss to socialise with the cargo. I think in practice it was left to the individuals to share out the workload to suit themselves. I don't recall seeing a written Job Description for any rank while I was at sea. Did they exist?


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## Brian Brown (Nov 18, 2007)

*Dm*



alaric said:


> They were London Dockers Joe. You really have become an Aussie, even dropped the 'H'!
> On my tour of the DM the Purser didn't take us into the Engineroom, just had a quick view of twenty Doxford top pistons from the changing room door. I have always regretted not having a proper look at a truly unique installation.
> Did you have a good look at the half Tyne, half Wear engines?


Did get on board DM a couple of times and was very fortunate to see her leaving Wellington for the last time 'all decked out'.
Always pleased to get back to 'my own ship' after such a visit I must say.
How did your 'hobby' (Alaric) finally turn out?
So ... When is w(h)arfie not a docker?

As usual Dick once a steam man always a critic ...


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## alaric (Feb 27, 2012)

#12 . Totally off message.
Just for you Joe I have posted a photo of my 'ship' in the Gallery today.
I am still waiting for DJ to join me on a voyage.
I posted your NStar passing Percy Main photo on June 5th, just before the Gallery took a wobbly. Now viewable again.


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## jonti (Mar 5, 2008)

alaric said:


> In my time SS&A had Staff Captains, and Staff Chief Engineers on their 3 large passenger ships, Dominion Monarch, Southern Cross and Northern Star. They had usually sailed as Captains or Chiefs on smaller cargo ships before becoming 'Staffs'. As an example, when I was an Apprentice in Alaric I sailed with Jack Worden on his first trip as Chief, he then went to stand-by Northern Star during her building and sailed as Staff Chief for her first year. I was Junior Engineer during those four voyages.
> The 'Staffs' looked after the routine inspections and paperwork, leaving their boss to socialise with the cargo. I think in practice it was left to the individuals to share out the workload to suit themselves. I don't recall seeing a written Job Description for any rank while I was at sea. Did they exist?


Who was in control of the ship, Captain or Staff C ?


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## Brian Brown (Nov 18, 2007)

*Dm*



alaric said:


> #12 . Totally off message.
> Just for you Joe I have posted a photo of my 'ship' in the Gallery today.
> I am still waiting for DJ to join me on a voyage.
> I posted your NStar passing Percy Main photo on June 5th, just before the Gallery took a wobbly. Now viewable again.


Thank you Dick 
How many remain from that 1960 team?
Say hi to DJ


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## gleniffer (Jan 9, 2014)

Does anyone have any details or a picture of the lifeboats on the DM.

I've recently learnt that the 1938 engine I've had in my British narrow boat since 1976 have come from a DM lifeboat.


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## alaric (Feb 27, 2012)

Thanks for bringing this thread alive again Glennifer, I presume your engine is a Glennifer?
At the end of DM's Shaw Savill service she was used as an accommodation ship at the 1962 Seattle Worlds Fair. There is a photo of DM at Seattle on the site www.cruiselinehistory.com/the-dominion-monarch
All the lifeboats seem to be in position, and although it is possible that your engine was removed before the ship left UK for the last time I think this unlikely.
After Seattle DM sailed to Osaka, arriving on 25th November 1962 for scrapping. Perhaps a Glennifer enthusiast bought your engine from the scrappers and had it shipped back to UK?
Not all of the boats would be powered by engines, 2 or 4 most likely.
If you manage to get more history on your engine, built 1938 and still going, please post it here.
There are a few photographs of DM's interior on the quoted website which may interest Fiennesjohn who started this thread.


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## Stephen J. Card (Nov 5, 2006)

Here is a colour photo showing the 'launch'... No. 4 boat, in Seattle in 1962. There is another colour showing starboard boat No. 3 so the boats were with the ship to the end.

Last, an old B&W photo showing closeup of launch No. 3.


Perhaps SS&A kept a spare Gleniffer kept in KVG Dock?

Stephen


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## Stephen J. Card (Nov 5, 2006)

The MOTOR SHIP. Issue MARCH 1939. Page 470

Quote:

"Two 30 ft boats, 24hp Gleniffer Diesel engines carrying 40 persons...."

All other boats were rowing boats..


Stephen


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## Stephen J. Card (Nov 5, 2006)

There are two threads running on SN DOMINION MONARCH! 


Stephen


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## alaric (Feb 27, 2012)

Stephen J. Card said:


> The MOTOR SHIP. Issue MARCH 1939. Page 470
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


You beat me to it Stephen, I was going to consult The MOTORSHIP this morning.
Shaw Savill kept a lot of stuff in the Shore Store, but it would not have run to a whole Gleniffer engine. However, the passenger ships, including DM took on a supply of fire bars every voyage whether they were ordered or not. They were used as ballast in the event of burials at sea. The firebars were originally used in coal fired boilers, the last of which were scrapped in 1950.
Not many ships powered by four Doxfords carried firebars in their engineroom stores!


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## Stephen J. Card (Nov 5, 2006)

alaric said:


> You beat me to it Stephen, I was going to consult The MOTORSHIP this morning.
> Shaw Savill kept a lot of stuff in the Shore Store, but it would not have run to a whole Gleniffer engine. However, the passenger ships, including DM took on a supply of fire bars every voyage whether they were ordered or not. They were used as ballast in the event of burials at sea. The firebars were originally used in coal fired boilers, the last of which were scrapped in 1950.
> Not many ships powered by four Doxfords carried firebars in their engineroom stores!



Years ago I bought the set of The Motor Ship.... 1924 to 1960. All leather bound volumes. Beautiful! Books v. www Books will win by a mile! 

Do you remember two small motor lifeboats being taken off NORTHERN STAR before she went to scrapping? 

Stephen


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## alaric (Feb 27, 2012)

If you ever think those volumes need to go to a new home Stephen, let me know.
I was on the Northern Star for her first four voyages only so didn't see her two boats go.
Not unusual for SSA. I was in Corinthic on the final passenger voyage in 1965 and two of the boats went ashore along with the passengers in London. We then went round to Liverpool to complete discharging and Skyfotos took a good photograph of the ship in the Channel, still with all the passenger accommodation in place but with two boats missing. Much of the passenger accommodation was then removed by Wilton Fijenoord in Schiedam. Photo posted in Gallery, but is it a passenger ship?


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## Barrie Youde (May 29, 2006)

#18 

A splendid photograph of DM, apparently at Liverpool - and clearly on some special occasion. I wonder when? And which dock? Is she at Sandon? Might well be, although Gladstone was the more usual for SS&A. The alignment/orientation looks wrong for Gladstone. Further information will be much appreciated.

I was an 8-year-old child aboard Persic at Gladstone for the Festival of Britain Grand Firework display in 1951. Was that the occasion?

PS. On looking more closely I see that she is alongside a quay. North Gladstone 1? That would fit.


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## norm.h (Dec 8, 2009)

Fans of Call The Midwife programme will recognise this pic.

"Call the Midwife" takes place in Poplar, East London, so it isn't unreasonable to assume that the opening images are of Poplar, but I've always been apprehensive about such a large liner getting near Poplar.

The pic [which I came across while browsing Ship's Nostalgia] is of the Dominion Monarch in the King George 5th dock, which is quite away from Poplar as shown in the screenshot map.


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## Stephen J. Card (Nov 5, 2006)

alaric said:


> If you ever think those volumes need to go to a new home Stephen, let me know.
> I was on the Northern Star for her first four voyages only so didn't see her two boats go.
> QUOTE]
> 
> ...


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## alaric (Feb 27, 2012)

Come the day that 'might' turns to a 'maybe' it will be too late for both of us!
But good to be on your list Stephen.
Northern Star's boats had Lister engines as did most of SSAs fleet.


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## alaric (Feb 27, 2012)

Barrie Youde said:


> #18
> 
> A splendid photograph of DM, apparently at Liverpool - and clearly on some special occasion. I wonder when? And which dock? Is she at Sandon? Might well be, although Gladstone was the more usual for SS&A. The alignment/orientation looks wrong for Gladstone. Further information will be much appreciated.
> 
> ...


The colour photo was taken in Seattle Barrie, not Liverpool. Did DM ever visit Liverpool in normal SS&A service? Would have been there during WW2 no doubt.
Persic, my first SS&A steamer of fond memories.


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## Barrie Youde (May 29, 2006)

#28 

Very many thanks, Alaric!

I had no idea, until now, that Seattle might look so similar to the Mersey, seen from a certain angle!

As to DM at Liverpool, I based my thoughts on a conversation which I overheard in childhood between my Dad and a Blue Flue Pilot, O.G. Small, regarding the Blue Flue/SS&A joint Australian Service from Liverpool, then in full swing. In my own mind I am confident that OGS was recounting his experience of having piloted the Dominion Monarch at Liverpool. I accept that I might of course be wrong. But I certainly recall DM featuring strongly in their conversation, as I hung onto every word.

Repeated thanks!

BY


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## Stephen J. Card (Nov 5, 2006)

alaric said:


> Come the day that 'might' turns to a 'maybe' it will be too late for both of us!
> But good to be on your list Stephen.
> Northern Star's boats had Lister engines as did most of SSAs fleet.



LOL. 

I thought ALL lifeboats from every ship in the world had Lister engines!!!

First time I started on was when I was 11. Told me how to keep my thumb to avoid a broken one! Bert Litherland at tiller. MARINIA 1964.

Stephen


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## Barrie Youde (May 29, 2006)

#29 

Google confirms that DM was at Liverpool at least once during WWII, in 1940.


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## alaric (Feb 27, 2012)

Much more than once Barrie. It seems that Liverpool became DMs home port for most of the war years when London was closed to large ships.
Attached is the DM chapter of SS&As 'The Flag of the Southern Cross. 1939-1945' by Frank Bowen.


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## alaric (Feb 27, 2012)

DMs war, part 2. Written in 1945


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## Barrie Youde (May 29, 2006)

Very many thanks, Alaric!

That is much appreciated.

B


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## Barrie Youde (May 29, 2006)

I hope that I might be forgiven for this re-run, below.

Mention of the Australian passenger service from Liverpool and Pilot Ovey Small (#29) brings it all back!

INSPIRATION OF YOUTH
“Give her the works, Sidney” barked the Master, down the blower,
The Pilot wants full speed! And not one revolution slower!”
Our ship, a liner steamship in UK/Australia trade
Was powerful and elegant, all of the highest grade.
A four month trip: A dozen ports: Antipodes and back:
We were an ocean greyhound, keeping schedule, keeping track.
Wool: fridge cargo, meat and butter: Passengers First Class.
No stain was there upon her decks, nor tarnish on her brass.

The Master was a martinet: a formalist: a terror.
No slack was tolerated. Not the slightest human error.
The Officers would stand aside through more than courtesy.
Through iron will he ruled us all, as Neptune rules the Sea.
And I, an humble Midshipmite, an awkward, gangling youth,
Was terrified of every bark. That is the simple truth.
Four months I listened to this man. I heeded every warning.
He frightened me at dead of night, at noon and in the morning.
The only civil words I heard, throughout the voyage made
Were spoken to the passengers. But they, of course, had paid.

Nearly home. Gibraltar passed and entered in the log:
Double watches soon for meeting European fog.
The Master on the bridge: chain smoking: peering through the murk.
Radar in its infancy. Barked he, “Does that thing work?”
Other ships approaching were detected through the ears.
The martinet relied upon experience of years.
And who was at the Radar, no more trusted than the set?
‘Twas I, the first-trip novice hand. So much could go wrong yet.

St George’s Channel: Bardsey: What a foul and fearful night.
Off Holyhead at last the look-out saw the Pilot-light.
All was ready, ladder rigged, the speed reduced and dropped.
The Master, barking, paced the bridge. The smoking never stopped.
The Pilot came on board. The Master shook him by the hand.
“Dear Boy, how good to see you! You have all arrangements planned?
Middy! Take the Pilot’s coat and hang it up for drying!
Middy! Make some tea! Can you do that for want of trying?”

The tension since Gibraltar showed that it had greatly eased.
The Pilot had the con: the Master very clearly pleased.
“How are things, now, Mister Pilot? Tell me what you need?
For docking time at Liverpool, how do you rate our speed?”
(Now, Sidney was the Engineer, the Chief of All his Ilk.
Relations with the Master, formal, not quite smooth as silk.)
The Pilot spoke. The Master strode unto the telephone.
“Keep her going, Sidney, if you stoke her on your own!
Give her the works, now, Sidney! The Pilot wants full speed!”
The martinet a messenger. My heart began to bleed!
“Give her the works, Sidney!” barked the Master down the blower.
“The Pilot wants full speed and not a revolution slower!”
The moment thus confirmed a thought which I had long possessed:-
To be a Pilot’s son I was most fortunate and blessed.
For I had seen a martinet most pleased to recognise
The worth of any Pilot, now, before my very eyes,
At highest standards operating in the Merchant Fleet.
A Pilot stands in independence. On his own two feet.
And I would be a Pilot if I might be good enough,
To satisfy the martinet. If I could learn my stuff.

“Give her the works, Sidney!” How such simple words could mark
The confirmation of a youth, that foggy evening dark.
“Give her the works, Sidney!” Were there ever words so sweet?
Or explanation given for a function more complete?
The Martinet earned his reward, for sailing far and wide.
The Pilot? He did likewise. Why? Let other men decide.
I’d like to ask the Martinet. Perhaps one day I can,
In the knowledge that he proved he was a fellow sailorman.
“Give her the works, Sidney!” How those magic words inspired-
As I became a Pilot, too – Long after they retired!
The moral being, I suppose – to smooth the end of it,
That nothing is more proper than to see the biter bit!

BY
2010

The above verse records the arrival home from Australia of Blue Funnel’s ss Jason on 23rd January 1960, with Captain John Gould of Tyn-y-Gongl, Anglesey, in command. The Chief Engineer was Sidney Smith, of Birkenhead. The Pilot was Overton Gordon Small, a good friend of my own father. On board we carried the Australian Olympic Show Jumping Team, complete with twelve horses, in preparation for the Olympic Games at Rome in June of that year. Privileged? Yes, I was and greatly so. Terrified? Yes, I was that, too!


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## alaric (Feb 27, 2012)

Wonderful Barrie. 
While you were learning your trade in Jason, I was doing the same thing in Persic. www.shipsnostalgia.com/gallery/show.../shaw-savill-and-albion-27s-ss-persic/cat/510


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## gleniffer (Jan 9, 2014)

Stephen J. Card said:


> The MOTOR SHIP. Issue MARCH 1939. Page 470
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


Interesting - I must say I had wondered if that was the case.

In which case, if my engine is 9 away from one of those on the DM, I wonderwhat other ships launched in '39 might have had Gleniffer powered launches (air & hand start like ours) like this :-


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## Barrie Youde (May 29, 2006)

#36 

A

Many thanks!

B


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## alaric (Feb 27, 2012)

gleniffer said:


> Interesting - I must say I had wondered if that was the case.
> 
> In which case, if my engine is 9 away from one of those on the DM, I wonderwhat other ships launched in '39 might have had Gleniffer powered launches (air & hand start like ours) like this :-


9 away? Are you referring to serial numbers Gleniffer? How do you know DMs engine serials?


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## gleniffer (Jan 9, 2014)

alaric said:


> 9 away? Are you referring to serial numbers Gleniffer? How do you know DMs engine serials?


I mean Gleniffer engine numbers - for the DM's launches/lifeboats.

My fellow boater has engine no. 10281 and he has a paper trail showing it came from the DM.

My engine is 10290, and I know its a 1938 build.

Surely both must have been made in the same month.


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## alaric (Feb 27, 2012)

gleniffer said:


> I mean Gleniffer engine numbers - for the DM's launches/lifeboats.
> 
> My fellow boater has engine no. 10281 and he has a paper trail showing it came from the DM.
> 
> ...


Thanks Gleniffer, understood. Pity your engine is not one of the DMs.
I believe the engine was popular at the time, the chance of these two engines being built within a month of each other is high.
Any chance of the owner of 10281 posting his paper trail on this forum? It would be interesting to learn how his engine found it's way back to the UK from Japan. Or is your fellow boater Japanese?
Whatever, well done keeping this venerable engine in use. Is it fitted with an hours run meter by any chance.


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## gleniffer (Jan 9, 2014)

I am in contact with the other owner - I am hoping to see his paperwork sometime.

He certainly isn't Japanese !

No hours run meter I'm afraid. But it did come with the air and hand start kit. Several people have said we should re-fit the air start, but that goes in the same place as the electric starter, and once you run out of air you're snookered. Whereas more 12v batteries are easier to grab.

Plus the positioning of the air cyl is tricky in this little ship. It used to be under the double bunk in the other boat guaranteeing a good nights' sleep ! After 40 years it probably needs an inspection.

The current installation doesn't allow space for the hand start either - and anyway it was all I could do to crank it up 30+ years ago when the engine was stone cold. I'm a bit stiffer now.


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