# The best 80's Marconi station I have ever seen...



## Troppo (Feb 18, 2010)

VLCC Brazilian Peace.

From the FB marine radio group...

Two Apollos were not uncommon...but two Conquerors as well?

(EEK)


----------



## Tony Selman (Mar 8, 2006)

Troppo, in the late 1970s P&O used to fit their stations with two main receivers, two main transmitters (at least 1Kw) and one back up fully crystalled redundant old Oceanspan as Emergency transmitter. That was belt, braces and a piece of string.


----------



## DickGraham (Oct 2, 2017)

Cor! Beats a 'spanVI/Atalanta. Looks like test equipment cases in the left hand corner as well.


----------



## Troppo (Feb 18, 2010)

Tony Selman said:


> Troppo, in the late 1970s P&O used to fit their stations with two main receivers, two main transmitters (at least 1Kw) and one back up fully crystalled redundant old Oceanspan as Emergency transmitter. That was belt, braces and a piece of string.


My first ship was a P and O box boat- we had two SRT1600 mtx..and two Collins synthesised mrx...

But, I've never seen two Conquerors...


----------



## Tony Selman (Mar 8, 2006)

Troppo, please refresh my memory, how powerful were Conquerors. I did not sail with one.


----------



## Ron Stringer (Mar 15, 2005)

Tony,

Officially they were 1.5kW transmitters (the GPO/BoT) limit for UK-flag vessels). In reality with a decent antenna it was quite easy to get 2kW (shush, Harry Gilder may be listening).


----------



## Tony Selman (Mar 8, 2006)

Thanks Ron, I had a vague feeling I had heard they were 2kW but I thought it was my memory because I knew GPO regulations were 1.5 or thereabouts.


----------



## sparkie2182 (May 12, 2007)

I joined a Cunard managed bulker with a radio room straight from Startrek. 
Ericsson Marine kit..... The tx and rx derived their fcy I. P. from a common x'tal oven. 

I spent 6 months praying nothing untoward happened to that oven. 

&#55357;&#56833;


----------



## Varley (Oct 1, 2006)

Trekkies know about redundancy. Suggest that was more Red Dwarf.


----------



## sparkie2182 (May 12, 2007)

It didn't exist in the late 70's

&#55358;&#56596;


----------



## R651400 (Jun 18, 2005)

Ron Stringer said:


> ...Officially they were 1.5kW transmitters (the GPO/BoT) limit for UK-flag vessels). In reality with a decent antenna it was quite easy to get 2kw...


Wonder how much of that on an accommodation and aerial aft VLCC ended up as wasteful eddy-current or R/O sterilisation?


----------



## sparkie2182 (May 12, 2007)

Good point.


----------



## trotterdotpom (Apr 29, 2005)

Varley said:


> Trekkies know about redundancy. Suggest that was more Red Dwarf.


"Red Dwarf" was hatched in the Aigburth Arms in Liverpool - plenty of redundancy there at the time!

John T


----------



## Varley (Oct 1, 2006)

Just round the corner from Riversdale (where I took part II, first year being at Colwyn Bay immediately before it closed down).


----------



## trotterdotpom (Apr 29, 2005)

Varley said:


> Just round the corner from Riversdale (where I took part II, first year being at Colwyn Bay immediately before it closed down).


Correctomundo … hic! Full of characters.

John T


----------



## Chris Wordsworth (May 10, 2006)

*On my old tramps we weren't allowed more than 100W.*



Tony Selman said:


> Troppo, in the late 1970s P&O used to fit their stations with two main receivers, two main transmitters (at least 1Kw) and one back up fully crystalled redundant old Oceanspan as Emergency transmitter. That was belt, braces and a piece of string.


In the 60's and 70's we weren't allowed more than 100w. Then I went foreign and had loads of power and synthesised frequencies. That seemed a 'great leap forward' for me.


----------



## Chris Wordsworth (May 10, 2006)

*My old tramps only allowed 100W*

In the 60's and 70's we weren't allowed more than 100w. Then I went foreign and had loads of power and synthesised frequencies. That seemed a 'great leap forward' for me.


----------



## CrazySparks (Apr 21, 2008)

Wow! Never saw that before. brilliant station!


----------



## searover (Sep 8, 2007)

Now this ages me. I sailed on RMS Orion in 1954. My responsibilities included the two accident boats, each with spark transmitters. Testing the transmitters was frowned on as the multi-frequency 'raspberry' noises imposed on all receivers on the ship, on all frequencies, were 'disliked'. The morse 'noise' could cut through any opposition, on any frequency. There was a modern invention there too - a receiver using a diode valve - suspended with elastic bands because ANY vibration created a musical sonic warble. Apparently the equipment was tuned for 500 Kc/s but who knows. Good job I wasn't transmitting at 2 kWs but could only reach the horizon.


----------



## P.Arnold (Apr 11, 2013)

*Past & Present ish*

Early 70’s, I had a ‘junior’ who had been an R/O during WW2, he was revalidating his ticket.
Showing him the radio room on the Governor (T J Harrison) which had O’Span VII, and Mercury/Electra rx’s.
“I suppose this is a big change to the gear you sailed with”
“NO not really”


----------



## Devans47 (Apr 24, 2013)

Chris Wordsworth said:


> In the 60's and 70's we weren't allowed more than 100w. Then I went foreign and had loads of power and synthesised frequencies. That seemed a 'great leap forward' for me.


This going to show how ignorant I was, I thought that in the 60's when I was a sparks that all shipping (UK and foreign) was limited on their tx outputs but it looks like foreign companies provided bigger and more powerful equipment. Thought I was in heaven when I finally got a Crusader.


----------



## Bill.B (Oct 19, 2013)

On going on US flag ready reserve vessels andUS flag trading vessels in the late 80s I thought I had walked into a museum. When I took over the SS John Brown surveys her RCA station was same as a lot of the 60/70 era ready reserve fleet. We were so lucky even having Atalanta and Worldspans and then KH Zealand synthesized stations. It was a totally different world.


----------



## Ron Stringer (Mar 15, 2005)

As far as I know there was only the 1.5kW power limit applied to British-flag merchant ship radio stations. (Exceptions were made for some high-profile passenger ships). The 100W used by most UK ships was adequate prior to the shut-down of the Area Scheme, which meant that it was only really necessary to reach the nearest free relay station so shipowners were reluctant to purchase the more powerful (and more expensive) transmitters that were available. Foreign-flag vessels did not have access to the Scheme and had to contact stations at extreme range.

However in respect of frequency allocations the UK authorities allocated only the bare minimum requirements rather than all those available in each band. The initial licence for each new building set down the allocation and the details were passed to the supplying radio company, which crystalled the transmitter accordingly. So in each HF band they allocated only one calling frequency and two working frequencies. 

In the MF band the allocation was 410, 500 and 512kHz plus two others chosen (by the authorities) from 425, 454, 468 and 480kHz. 

This limitation was claimed to ensure a spread of ship calls and working across the band and avoid all the ship's trying to use the same frequency simultaneously.

Extra frequencies could be authorised on request by the shipowner but most had no in-house radio expertise and didn't bother. Ships of companies with radio superintendents often had much better provision.

Whether or not the restrictions were justified is debatable but the advent of synthesised drives made it purely academic.


----------



## Ron Stringer (Mar 15, 2005)

ps Remember that there were plenty of foreign-going British ship's that.only had MF transmitters.


----------



## R651400 (Jun 18, 2005)

With respect to transmitter (DC input) power in the mid 50's to early 60's. I never knew any free-lance ship that had more than 400 to 600w and I think Scandinavian flag of this time were much the same. 
There were British companies that fitted MF only to their new-builds (one I recall tramp outfit Chapmans of Newcastle) but the majority of f-g MF only then and a great favourite of the Greeks were second hand (RCA 300w) WW2 Sam class Liberties where (Blue Funnel as one exemple) the new owners didn't feel it necessary or were too tight to refit with new Mf/HF transmitters.


----------



## Troppo (Feb 18, 2010)

Ahhh, shipping companies....I just shake my head.


----------



## R651400 (Jun 18, 2005)

Let's put it this way good or bad most UK shipping outfits never had to worry on their supply of RO's. radio equipment, technical back-up/spares etc all courtesy of radio companies whereas if they had been direct-employ and of ill-repute they'd have had little choice but to up the salary ante or their ships would remain alongside..


----------



## Troppo (Feb 18, 2010)

Indeed....but what was the cost increase from fitting two main tx and two main rx compared to the cost of a new ship...nothing!

AND, they would have got improved comms with their ship.

At least P and O had the right idea.


----------



## Varley (Oct 1, 2006)

I don't know that improved redundancy equals better communications unless one is considering only periods where breakdown prevented use of the 'Main' equipment. Addition of TOR did (if we ignore the indiscipline now allowed in drafting the information, if any, in the transmitted message). Addition of Satcom WRT R/T did too (but then who does not remember the closing phrase of every business conversation "Now Chief/Captain you will summarise all that in a telex as soon as you can please".


----------



## P.Arnold (Apr 11, 2013)

Mid 80’s, a new build (Liberian flag) came in with MF station only, and Satcom. 

She was to be Aussie flagged. Aussie rules, I was told, dictated that an alternative means of comms was required for the crew to make R/T calls, as these were cheaper at the time than Satcom. A “conqueror” was fitted.
I was later informed by the attending Super’ that the TX would not be used as the crew would not be bothered with all the faffing about with link calls etc.


----------



## trotterdotpom (Apr 29, 2005)

P.Arnold said:


> Mid 80’s, a new build (Liberian flag) came in with MF station only, and Satcom.
> 
> She was to be Aussie flagged. Aussie rules, I was told, dictated that an alternative means of comms was required for the crew to make R/T calls, as these were cheaper at the time than Satcom. A “conqueror” was fitted.
> I was later informed by the attending Super’ that the TX would not be used as the crew would not be bothered with all the faffing about with link calls etc.


Was this ship Liberian flag or Australian flag? In the mid-80s Australian ships still had conventional radio stations by regulation. They didn't go to Satcom until 1992. Highly unlikely that the Australian Unions would have agreed either (even though they were in the process of selling out at the time). I think that any ship that showed up in Australia with those conditions would have been breaking the law and wouldn't have left until they rectified the situation.

John T


----------



## P.Arnold (Apr 11, 2013)

John

The ship was the Irene Greenwood. She came into HK as Liberian flag.

Even though she was a new build, the accommodation was being ripped out. Bunks/beds were being lowered/widened, to satisfy, whoever. I thought my memory was reasonable but at this time in life!! , I assumed with the amount of Aussies and talking with Super and R/O that she would fly the nations flag on departure.

I apologise if any of the information I related, remembered is incorrect.

Peter


----------



## trotterdotpom (Apr 29, 2005)

No worries, Peter. Irene Greenwood was with West Australian Stateships. In latter days they named all the ships after lesbians.

She definitely had an RO until 1992, there was no way that anyone other than an RO would have ever got a squeak out of a Conqueror. In the mid-80s a lot of Eng. Superintendents used to spruik about ROs getting the boot. For some reason some of them thought that was a good idea.Turned out they were right in the end, but we all knew that.As it happens, with the Australian shipping industry, I suspect Eng. Supers have gone down the same track.

John T


----------



## P.Arnold (Apr 11, 2013)

John, thanks.

Not mentioned in my previous post.
Being an ex R/O myself, I did detect a degree of mild hostility, if that’s the word, between R/O and Super’, when we had to go shopping for Oscilloscope, those multi tool things with croc clips and magnifying glass and other bibs and bobs, a list put together by the R/O to meet survey. We had to get the Super’ to sign off the invoice. 

I digress, but I remember the R/O bought a sports car to take back home.

Peter


----------



## trotterdotpom (Apr 29, 2005)

#34 . "I digress, but I remember the R/O bought a sports car to take back home."

Nice work if you can get it but he might have had a bit of bother with the car's compliance when he got it to Australia. I bet the car didn't go on the drydock bill like it might have for some people.

John T


----------



## Troppo (Feb 18, 2010)

P.Arnold said:


> Mid 80’s, a new build (Liberian flag) came in with MF station only, and Satcom.
> 
> She was to be Aussie flagged. Aussie rules, I was told, dictated that an alternative means of comms was required for the crew to make R/T calls, as these were cheaper at the time than Satcom. A “conqueror” was fitted.
> I was later informed by the attending Super’ that the TX would not be used as the crew would not be bothered with all the faffing about with link calls etc.


The super had no idea what he was talking about (per radio), as usual.


----------



## Varley (Oct 1, 2006)

trotterdotpom said:


> Was this ship Liberian flag or Australian flag? In the mid-80s Australian ships still had conventional radio stations by regulation. They didn't go to Satcom until 1992. Highly unlikely that the Australian Unions would have agreed either (even though they were in the process of selling out at the time). I think that any ship that showed up in Australia with those conditions would have been breaking the law and wouldn't have left until they rectified the situation.
> 
> John T


Breaking the law with an MF only station? I don't think so unless there were Australia specific requirements to carry HF.

I Saw Marisat long before 92 but in terms of safety radio (as distinct from ITU and radio regulations) it only became relevant when the NW European Navtex exemption (which used to promote the use of capable R/Os towards a more useful existence).

Still as many Ship Superintendents about and most still plumbers although some now stepping ashore before getting 'command' due to shortage. started the 

(Very usual for yards to build to Liberian/Panamanian flag for Owners intending to change it on delivery)


----------



## trotterdotpom (Apr 29, 2005)

#37 . "Breaking the law with an MF only station? I don't think so unless there were Australia specific requirements to carry HF."

Peter didn't say the ship only had an MF station, he said they fitted a Conqueror, which had the full range of frequencies. There was a "specific requirement" for Australian ships to carry an RO at that time.

I can't recall the rules about carriage of HF in the UK or the UK. Maybe only MF was compulsory, if not much use. Must check in the Handbook that I downloaded from a bloke on SN.

Can't see there being too many Engineer Supers around in Australia, seeing as there are hardly any ships thanks to the National Farmers Federation and others. Those Supers never saw that coming either.

I agree with Troppo #36 .

John T


----------



## Troppo (Feb 18, 2010)

Only MF was actually compulsory...but all Oz ships fitted HF, otherwise there would have been no comms.


----------



## P.Arnold (Apr 11, 2013)

Troppo said:


> Only MF was actually compulsory...but all Oz ships fitted HF, otherwise there would have been no comms.


But she had Satcom

Peter


----------



## Varley (Oct 1, 2006)

trotterdotpom said:


> #37 . "Breaking the law with an MF only station? I don't think so unless there were Australia specific requirements to carry HF."
> John T


Sorry John T. I must have been mixing my references with Ron's earlier comment.


----------



## trotterdotpom (Apr 29, 2005)

P.Arnold said:


> But she had Satcom
> 
> Peter


Yes but at that time, Satcom was only a frill, the radio regulations still applied. I can't see an AB making a phone call using a Conqueror, it was an uphill battle trying to explain the lifeboat transceiver to them.

For that matter, I can't see an Engineer Superintendent using it either.

John T


----------



## P.Arnold (Apr 11, 2013)

Which really goes back to my comments in #30 .

The use of the Satcom would be used as a preference to HF working, even with an R/O. much as the Super said.

I was sailing with Denholms GTV’s 75 to 77. Whilst in New York, Comsat General came on board to get a feel as to whether Denholms would agree to a Satcom being put on board for evaluation purposes.
It didn’t happen when I was there but I did think
Ugh ugh, here comes trouble. For the future of R/Os, that is.

Peter


----------



## Varley (Oct 1, 2006)

#43 .

It certainly did and Marisat was already fitted when I joined my first, Asialiner in late 77 early 78. Very little to do with DSM and even less to do with Marconi (although much interested no doubt) unbudgeted capital expenditure like that was and generally is down to owners.


----------



## Troppo (Feb 18, 2010)

P.Arnold said:


> Which really goes back to my comments in #30 .
> 
> The use of the Satcom would be used as a preference to HF working, even with an R/O. much as the Super said.
> 
> ...


Satcom A telephone calls were 12 dollars A MINUTE.....nope...


----------



## trotterdotpom (Apr 29, 2005)

P.Arnold said:


> Which really goes back to my comments in #30 .
> 
> The use of the Satcom would be used as a preference to HF working, even with an R/O. much as the Super said.
> 
> ...


... what Troppo said! Even when Satcom was fitted, I never made a phone call through it for a crewmember. If you were that keen, a lot of the time it was cheaper to use local VHF if one was available.

Around 1971, the dawn of the container ship, I remember seeing a ship in the misty distance in the north Atlantic - we thought it was an aircraft carrier. Turned out to be Euroliner!

John T


----------



## P.Arnold (Apr 11, 2013)

Troppo said:


> Satcom A telephone calls were 12 dollars A MINUTE.....nope...


Takes me back to #30 .

We seem to agree that HF was a mandatory requirement by regulations.

In the eyes of the Super it was seen as a mandatory requirement by the Unions, (not regulations) as a cheaper alternative to Satcom for the crew.

It may have been his past experience with ‘low powered’ HF R/T as it has been mine. Waiting on a QRY, and then QSA 5 goes to 1. And the times of simplex. His expression , faffing around.

To the shipowner, telegraph charges per word were also increasing.
It didn’t take many ‘words’ to equal a minimum Satcom call. A fact I used when selling Satcoms in 86.

Ps I sailed on the 4 GTV’s advertised as the “Weekly Jet Service to America” very impressive.


----------



## Ron Stringer (Mar 15, 2005)

Varley said:


> Very little to do with DSM and even less to do with Marconi (although much interested no doubt).....


Sad to say David that MIMCo were not in the least interested. Market research was never its strong point.

Under MIMCo's then MD, David Furneaux, we received a delegation from Scientific Atlanta (then the sole manufacturer) who offered us the sole European distribution rights for Marisat terminals in late 1976, shortly after the Comsat-General service went live. The offer was rejected as something that would never catch on because of the terminal's high initial cost and the very high call charges. It was viewed as a niche product for large passenger vessels only.

MIMCo didn't show any interest until Iain Dick took over in 1981 and after looking at several alternatives, decided to go ahead and develop our own product. That came on the market almost a decade after the initial approach.


----------



## Varley (Oct 1, 2006)

The lack of interest does, indeed, surprise me, Ron. They came rather late to the S band radar too, didn't they? I think I had the only one on Eurofreighter (I remember the ATU employed a motor with brushes and the waveguide/coax was pressurised). As I type this post a question springs to mind. Surely lower frequency, even at microwavelengths were easier to process than higher. Did no early radar favour S band?

I remember the Oceanray and visiting Mal Philips at Chelmsford when we were in the early (for DSM anyway) stages of Email. I still think the fault database that could be interrogated by telex (I have forgotten the acronym) was a good implementation of sharing operational technical events. Even now computer '(&un)planned maintenance' concentrates on the job to do (and on ticking the box that it was done) rather than what was found.


----------



## Ron Stringer (Mar 15, 2005)

David,

The carriage rules for British ships only required 3cm radar and for most of its existence, MIMCo looked no further than the UK requirements for design criteria for any of its products.

Because of the major UK shipowners' predilection for minimum compliance with the rules, few were prepared to consider a second radar until IMO (and the UK) started to require it on certain classes of ship. Then MIMCo decided to get in on the act. Too little, too late again.


----------



## Varley (Oct 1, 2006)

I think you meant 3 cm Ron but I accept the rest.


----------



## Ron Stringer (Mar 15, 2005)

Correct as always, David. Sorry for that - I'll change it now.


----------

