# A HOLLAND & CO, shippiing line. any info please



## amanda davies (Apr 3, 2008)

A Holland & co. is listed as the owners of the LOMAS, which my Grand Father sailed on before the WW2. I dont seem to be able to find any info on them.

This was the only ship he sailed on that wasnt owned by Prince line or General Steam Navigation. This company appears on my Grand Fathers College records as being the company he worked for, or who sponsored him ( not sure how it worked) for his "Masters ticket". 

is it possible that it was a smaller company owned by one of the others?

any info on the company would be welcomed, thanks.


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## gdynia (Nov 3, 2005)

Heres abit info on the vessel


http://www.miramarshipindex.org.nz/ship/show/63522

The only other bit of info i can find they were ship managers from London one of their biggest clients being Buenos Ayres Great Southern Railway Co


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## 12548 (Mar 23, 2007)

*SS Lomas*

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/...ils.asp?CATID=-4733876&CATLN=7&accessmethod=5


joller6


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## amanda davies (Apr 3, 2008)

so does that mean that they werent a shipping line as such?


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## Roger Jordan (May 9, 2008)

*Arthur Holland & Co Ltd*

Arthur Holland & Co Ltd (offices at 20 Billiter Street, London EC3) owned its first steamers in 1881 and members of the Holland family ran the business until it gave up its shipowning and management interests in 1935.

Buenos Ayres Great Southern Railway Co Ltd, which was British-owned, had its head offices at River Plate House, Finsbury Circus, London EC2. Arthur Holland & Co Ltd was its “managing agent” in London, and it is possible that Holland had a deeper interest than that (if you do a Google search for Buenos Ayres [note spelling] Great South Railway, you will find numerous references to both the railway and to Holland). The modest-size fleet ran almost a scheduled cargo service from Newport, Monmouthshire, to River Plate ports. The Newport agent of Arthur Holland & Co Ltd was James Heard & Co Ltd. 

The railway company also owned several tugs, dredgers, and various small craft, mainly at Buenos Aires and all of which were under Argentinean registration.

Charles Frederick Holland was the boss-man of Arthur Holland & Co Ltd in the 1930s and in the mid-1930s he joined the board of Lamport & Holt Ltd, Liverpool, and he remained on its board until 1944, when that company was the subject of a takeover.

As for the steamer LOMAS, I have set out below a brief history and some specification details:

History
Builders: Fairfield Shipbuilding & Engineering Co Ltd, Govan (ship number 537)
1919 1 April: Launched as WAR PIONEER for Shipping Controller, London
1919 May: Completed as BRAZILIER for Lloyd Royal Belge Societe Anonyme, Antwerp
1926: sold to Buenos Ayres Great Southern Railway Co Ltd, London, renamed LOMAS
1936 Nov: sold Severn Steamship Co Ltd (manager Mark Whitwill (Shipping) Ltd, Mill Avenue, Queen Square, Bristol 1), renamed AVON CLIFF
1937: sold Societa Anonima Emanuel V Parodi, Genoa, renamed ITALO BALBO
1941 9 Sep 1712 hrs: Torpedoed by Netherlands submarine O-24 (Commander de Booy) in position 42 47N 09 57E; 10 Sep 0400 hrs: sank 10 miles west of Cape Serre

Vessel details
AO standard type general cargo vessel
Official number 143206
5256 tons gross, 3181 tons net, 8150 tons deadweight, 11,405 tons displacement
Length overall 413 ft 9 in, breadth 52 ft 4 in, moulded depth 31 ft, loaded draught 25 ft 3 in
Fitted with Fairfield triple-expansion engine, 2500 indicated horsepower
Speed 10.5–11.0 knots in service


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## amanda davies (Apr 3, 2008)

Thanks, I think that this possibly answers my question. A Holland & co probably sponsored my Grandfathers " first mate ticket ans probably his Extra masters too ( cant be sure , still searching for the confirmation) but I couldnt understand why he then didnt sail with them once he had qualified. But if they were no longer in operation, this would explain it... I think?


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## jbarr (Jul 10, 2017)

*SS Lomas*



Roger Jordan said:


> Arthur Holland & Co Ltd (offices at 20 Billiter Street, London EC3) owned its first steamers in 1881 and members of the Holland family ran the business until it gave up its shipowning and management interests in 1935.
> 
> Buenos Ayres Great Southern Railway Co Ltd, which was British-owned, had its head offices at River Plate House, Finsbury Circus, London EC2. Arthur Holland & Co Ltd was its “managing agent” in London, and it is possible that Holland had a deeper interest than that (if you do a Google search for Buenos Ayres [note spelling] Great South Railway, you will find numerous references to both the railway and to Holland). The modest-size fleet ran almost a scheduled cargo service from Newport, Monmouthshire, to River Plate ports. The Newport agent of Arthur Holland & Co Ltd was James Heard & Co Ltd.
> 
> ...


Roger, please explain the attached passenger list from the SS Lomas in 1898.

Thanks and regards,

John Barr


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## eddyw (Nov 6, 2007)

There were three ships named 'Lomas'
1) 'Lomas' (1890, 2,203 grt) sold foreign 1899
2) 'Lomas' (1898, 3,043 grt) sunk June 1915 by U boat.
3) 'Lomas' (1919, 5,256) (purchased 1926; sold 1935) sunk Sept 1941 by U boat. 
All owned by Buenos Ayres Great Southern Railway Co (Managers:- A Holland & Co Ltd, London )


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## jbarr (Jul 10, 2017)

Thanks, Roger. Do you happen to have a list of A. Holland's fleet? I'm intrigued by the name, because it's the name of one of the main train stations in the suburban section of the mentioned railway company. If so, there should be other ships in the fleet under the names of SS Banfield, SS Temperley, &c.

Thanks and regards,

John Barr


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## eddyw (Nov 6, 2007)

Hi jbar, eddyw here. The BAGSR fleet included at various times vessels with names ALFALFA, AZUL, MANIN, SALADO, TANDIL, ZAPALA. Don't know significance of these names. Roger may have a fleet list. I was intrigued by the story as possibly an example of 'vertical integration' by the railway company (extending their business by offering a complete package to importers/exporters).


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## jbarr (Jul 10, 2017)

Hi eddyw. Yes, it's definitely an early case of vertical integration. Except for Manin, which doesn't ring a bell, all the rest are the names of railway stations that were important at the time and had some particular significance or were a motive of pride for the railway company (large workshops, long bridges, &c.). Most of them were also temporary railheads, as the railway forged its way south over the years. Attached is a picture of Lomas station, back in the day.
Let's hope Roger can come up with some more names of A. Holland's fleet and see if it proves my theory.

Cheers,

John


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## BillH (Oct 10, 2007)

Looking in Lloyd's Register - List of Shipowners 1918-19 edition; Arthur Holland & Company are shown as stated earlier as the managers for Buenos Ayres Gt Southern Railway Co Ltd whose fleet at that time was given as 
ALFALFA (2993/1898); 
DOROTHY (108/1895); 
FRANK PARISH 2893/1900); 
HOPPER No.1 (433/1906); 
HOPPER No.2 (432/1907); 
LYDIA (148/1911)
MARGARITA (2788/1903)

Lloyd's Register had a bottom cut off at 100 gross tons so anything below that would not normally be included


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## BillH (Oct 10, 2007)

There are references at TNA to the company in relations to several other steamers; ZAPALA; SEGURA; SOLA; TANDRIL and SEBEK

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r/1?_q=arthur and holland and company


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## jbarr (Jul 10, 2017)

Just off the cuff, ALFALFA, PARISH, ZAPALA, SOLA and TANDIL were all railway stations belonging to the Buenos Aires Great Southern Railway (BAGS). The other names are a little confusing. Those with girls names could be the names of the daughters of the top brass who were too bashful to have the stations named after them, but this is only speculation. Thanks for the links. I'll do some digging and delving and see what I can unearth.


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## ted nutt (Dec 4, 2008)

*A. Holland & co*

Morning, these are the vessels I have notes on;(time in fleet)
Liscard (1880-1893), Lamport (1882-1887), Linwood (1882-1884),
Darwin (1884-1900), Ruskin (1890-1908), Lomas (1890-1899),
Dolores (1890-1892), Tandil (1890-1899), Alfalfa (1890-1900),
Salado (1890-1897), Sola (1890-1900),Manin (1890-1901),
Franklin (1890-1900), Justin (1891-1892), Calvin (1891-1896),
Azul (1898-1917), Alfalfa (1899-1916), Darwin (1901-1916),
Frank Parish (1900-1922), Lomas (1899-1915), Margarita (1903-1918),
Sola (1899-1912), Tandil (1900-1917), Neuquen (1913-1917),
Segura (1921-1935) Zapala (1924-1935) Salado (1926-1935),
Azul (1926-1935) Lomas (1926-1935) Galvan (1927-1935).
Some minor vessels; Margarita / Dorothy (1895-1934) Hopper No 1
(1906-1928) Hopper No 2 (1907-1919) Lydia (1911-1937)
Nutria (1933-1937). 
Hope the above helps, Ted.


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## jbarr (Jul 10, 2017)

Thanks, Ted. There is a definite pattern. The custom of naming major vessels after railway stations seems to have started around 1890 and went on to the end. Minor vessels don't follow the rule. As I said yesterday, all those girl's names might be in honour of the daughters of the top brass, who knows. Nutria, on the other hand, is Spanish for otter. Fitting for a small tug.
I wonder why they were so insistent in naming three successive vessels Lomas?
Again, thanks for the information.

John


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