# Any information on the THETIS, constructed in Noorderwerf Groningen



## rfdehaan (Oct 17, 2006)

Any information on the THETIS, constructed in Noorderwerf Groningen, 190 ton, which was sunk in collision by the Austrian steamship TREBISOND on 28 March 1857? The ship was en route to Belfast with "lijnzaad" and "vlas". 

Everyone was rescued other than an ancestor of mine, Hendrik Meppelder, who was the captain on the THETIS.

Any information welcomed.
Roelof


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## Billieboy (May 18, 2009)

Some translations:-

Lijnzaad = Linseed (The seed of the Flax plant in sacks of 50kg)
Vlas = Flax (Usually deseeded, and partially combed in Rolls of about 100kg)


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## joebuckham (Apr 1, 2005)

rfdehaan said:


> Any information on the THETIS, constructed in Noorderwerf Groningen, 190 ton, which was sunk in collision by the Austrian steamship TREBISOND on 28 March 1857? The ship was en route to Belfast with "lijnzaad" and "vlas".
> 
> Everyone was rescued other than an ancestor of mine, Hendrik Meppelder, who was the captain on the THETIS.
> 
> ...


from my recollections of schoolboy geography lessons i seem to remember that flax and linseed oil, a product of flax and also known as flax seed oil, were staple *exports *of northern ireland. 

perhaps the thetis was bound away from northern ireland, or was coastwise and part laden


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## Satanic Mechanic (Feb 23, 2009)

Not diverting the thread here or anything but I could not help but notice it was an *Austrian* steamship - what would the story be there?


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## stein (Nov 4, 2006)

> Not diverting the thread here or anything but I could not help but notice it was an Austrian steamship - what would the story be there?


They owned Trieste at one time. Lost it in WW1. (They occupied Venice a bit futher ago). I got a book on Austrian Lloyd, and one on Austria-Hungary steamships, lots of ships in those two books. 
Stranger that the Swiss should have a merchant navy, but they do. 

Austrian Lloyd had two ships named Trebisonda, which makes me suspect that this is the correct spelling. The first one was built in 1857 in Britain, was of 1100 reg.t. and served Lloyd between 1857 and 1864. Here's a few lines on the brig Thetis from a Dutch site: 
Brik ,,THETIS,, 100 last /bijlbrief nr 165/2-7-1849 /werf Willem Carel van Arnhem te Groningen. Kapitein Folkert Meppeler /vlag D 4 (1804 Groningen/1857 op zee). Het schip ging verloren op 28-3-1857 in de Ierse zee. Het werd overvaren door een stoomschip de kapitein is verdronken. Stein


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## Billieboy (May 18, 2009)

Brik ,,THETIS,, 100 last /bijlbrief nr 165/2-7-1849 /werf Willem Carel van Arnhem te Groningen. Kapitein Folkert Meppeler /vlag D 4 (1804 Groningen/1857 op zee). Het schip ging verloren op 28-3-1857 in de Ierse zee. Het werd overvaren door een stoomschip de kapitein is verdronken. Stein

Translation:-

THETIS 100tons(maximum load)/build #165/02/July/1849/yard Willem Carel vanArnhem of Groningen. Master Capt Folkert Meppeler/ Flag D4{ possibly class of certificate or a Hansa notation}(1804 Groningen to 1857 at sea-{DoB/place - Date of death of master}). 
The ship was lost in the Irish Sea on 28 March 1857. She was run down by a steamship the captain was drowned.


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## stein (Nov 4, 2006)

Thanks for the translation Billieboy. I do wonder whether "last" means load capacity in tons though. We have the same word in Norwegian, and a Norwegian "last" was 12 barrels of grain or 18 barrels of coal; about 12 cubic metres. 
When the size of a ship is measured in Norwegian "lasts," one generally counts one "last" as 2,08 reg. tons. What the Dutch "last" was I don't know, but I would guess it was about the same - much of the old Norwegian nautical terminology originated in the Netherlands. Stein.


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## Billieboy (May 18, 2009)

A Last could be 2.8 reg tons Stein, but I read it as the modern, "load", which would be weight in tonnes. It would mean of course that the vessel could take double the load. I think we sould have a closer look at some old dictionaries, I'll try to get back to this Wednesday.


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## davidships (Nov 3, 2007)

TREBISOND/TREBIZONDE/TREBISONDE probably the 1060grt steamship built in 1857 for Austrian Lloyd Steam Navigation Co by Robert Napier at Govan (Yd 80).


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## Billieboy (May 18, 2009)

Stein, have been through a few old Flemish books without any luck. Then I started thinking of the old farmer's, "Load", which was about 50cwt(hundredweight) this would give 2.5 tons or about 2.8 short tons(2000lbs). So take "last" to be "load" in English which would give a total dead weight cargo of approx 250.000Kilos. I'm not sure if there was an international load line convention at the time, so the ship could have been over loaded.


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## Frank P (Mar 13, 2005)

stein said:


> Stranger that the Swiss should have a merchant navy, but they do.
> Stein


Stein, 

I have sailed on a couple of Norwegian ships were we had some Swiss seamen, on the tanker M/T Norsk Viking we had a Swiss Electrician and on the Royal Viking Star there were quite a few Swiss people but they were mainly employed in the hotel department.

Cheers Frank(Thumb)


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## Billieboy (May 18, 2009)

I've done some repairs on Swiss flagged vessels, one owner was called, "Swiss Atlantic Line", I think, it was back in '72.


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## rfdehaan (Oct 17, 2006)

Thank you all for your replies !
It has really explained matters. 

More information I have about Thetis is as follows below.
It comes from pages 18 and 19 in a publication about historic houses in Dordrecht.

Hendrik Meppelder, the Master of Thetis owned the properties at Nieuwehaven 39-41 in Dordrecht. The working group was "Werkgroep Het Nieuwe Werck" by Angenetha Balm and Jan Willem Boezeman.

The unexplained bit is that Hendrik was Master of Thetis, the ship that was run down. Folkert Meppelder was Master of the Hendrik Martinus.


Page 18: "Net als zijn schoonvader was Hendrik lid van de vrijmetselarij van Loge La flamboyante in Dordrecht. Lang heeft Hendrik Meppelder niet kunnen genieten van het herbouwde huis, sterker, hij verongelukte in het bouwjaar. In de jaren 1850-1857 was Meppelder gezagvoerder van de brik 'Thetis'. De 'Thetis' is in 1849 gebouwd bij de Noorderwerf in Groningen. Het schip mat 190 ton. Op 10 september 1857 is er een beëdigde verklaring ontvangen van het Hooggerechtshof van de Admiraliteit van Ierland te Dublin. Matroos Jacob Kromme uit Maassluis verklaart dat de brik Fhelix (moet zijn: Thetis) van de heeren Mauritz van Dordrecht ´is overzijlt´ door de stoomboot ‘de Frebis oude van Triest´ en dat H.Meppelder, kapitein van de brik, is verdronken op 28 maart 1857. De brik was op reis naar Belfast met een lading lijnzaad en vlas. "

Page 19:
"De Dordrechtsche Courant van 3 maart 1857 schrijft: “volgens telegrafisch berigt uit Dublin van heden, is het brikschip ‘Thetis’ van Dordrecht, kapitein H.Meppelder, van Donaar Belfast bestemd, door de Oostenrijkse stoomboot ‘Trebisond’ overzeild en onmiddellijk gezonken. Het volk, uitgenomen de kapitein is geret. De stoomboot is te Kingstown binnengeloopen”.

Stated Source: 1 SAD overlijdensakte anno 1857 no. 580

Twee jaar voor dit ongeluk overkwam een straatgenoot hetzelfde. Reindert Jansz Kranenburg, bewoner van Nieuwehaven 51-52, was in 1854 kapitein op het kofschip de ´Vrouwe Neeltje´ die op 10 januari 1854 in windkracht 10 met hevige sneeuwval verging voor de beruchte Goodwin Sands voor de Engelse kust bij Kent. In tegenstelling tot Meppelder stond Kranenburg als vermist te boek, hij is nooit formeel dood verklaard. Meppelder en Kranenburg waren beiden uit Groningen afkomstige zeelieden en waren lid van de Vrijmetselaars. Zij hebben elkaar dus gekend.

In het adresboeken van 1860 en 1865 wordt de weduwe H. Meppelder geboren Eddes als winkelierster in aardewerk vermeld in het huis aan de Nieuwehaven. Andere inwonenden aan het huis aan de Nieuwehaven waren W. Kouwens, commissionair; A.C. van de Weg, grutter; F.H.Eddes; F. en H. Meppelder.

Op enig moment erft Folkert Meppelder, kapitein koopvaardij wonende te Delfshaven, de huizen. Hij was de zoon van Hendrik Meppelder en Gepke Eddes en werd in Groningen geboren op 25 oktober 1828. Folkert Meppelder trouwt op 9 mei 1851 in Groningen met Fallegien Mooi. Vanaf 1851 was ook hij lid van de vrijmetselarij van Loge La flamboyante in Dordrecht. In 1857 werd Folkert kapitein van de bark 'Jacobus Martinus'. Dit schip werd in 1852 gebouwd bij Gips & zn "de Nijverheid" in Schiedam. Folkert Meppelder was tot 1867 gezagvoerder van de 'Jacobus Martinus'."


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## Billieboy (May 18, 2009)

rfdehaan said:


> Thank you all for your replies !
> It has really explained matters.
> 
> More information I have about Thetis is as follows below.
> ...


++++++
Translation:-

Page 18 
Just as his Father in Law,Hendrik was a member of the, "La Flamboyante" Freemasons Lodge,[which is still in it's founding building in the Wijnstraat], Dordrecht. Hendrik had little enjoyment from the renovated House as he was lost at sea in the building year. In the years 1850-1857Hendrik Meppelder was master of the brig, "Thetis", that was built in 1849, by Noorderwerf in Groningem. The ship was measured 190 ton. A legal statement from the Admiralty High Court in Dublin Ireland dated 10 September 1857 was recieved. "Seaman Jacob Kromme of Maassluis declared that the brig Fhelix, (should read "Thetis"), of the port of Dordrecht, was, "run down", by the steamer, "de Frebis oude van Triest", and that the Master of the brig H. Meppelder was drowned on 28th of March 1857, the brig was on passage to Belfast with a cargo of linseed and flax. 

Page 19
The newspaper "De Dordrechtsche Courant of 3 March 1857" states that: "following todays telegragam from Dublin, the Brig, "Thetis", of Dordrecht, master H.Meppelaar, from Dordrecht to Belfast, was run down by the Austrian steamship "Trebisond", the brig sank immediately, the crew with the exception of the Master were saved. The Steamer proceeded to berth in Kingstown.


Stated Source 1 SAD [not sure what this is but is probably City(Stadt) Archive of Dordrecht book 1] Death Certificate #580 1857

Two years before this accident, a neighbor in the same street, Reindert Janz Kranenberg, living at Nieuwehaven 51-52 was Master of 'Kofschip' the "Vrouwe Neeltje", which was caught in a force 10 Storm with heavy falling snow, on 10th January 1854, was driven onto the notorious Goodwin Sands, off the English coast near Kent and wrecked. Unlike Meppelder, Kranenburg was listed as "Missing", he was never formally declared Dead. Meppelder and Kranenburg were both seafarers originally from Groningen,as well as both being Freemasons. Therefore they must have known each other.

In the adress book[city roll of inhabitants] of 1860 and 1865 the widow of H. Meppeler nee Eddes, is noted as a shopkeeper[or dealer] in pottery and porcelain at the house on the Nieuwehaven. Other inhabitants of the house on the Nieuwehaven were, W.Kouwens commissionaire; A.C. van de Weg, grocer; F.H.Eddes and H.Meppelder.

Folkert Meppelder, Master Mariner, living in Delfshaven, as the son of Hendrik Meppelder and Gepeke Eddes born in Groningen 25 October 1828, inherited the houses. Folkert Meppelder married Fallegien Mooi on 9 May 1851 in Groningen. From 1851 he was also a member of the Freemasons lodge "La Flamboyante" in Dordrecht. In 1857 Folkert became the Master of the Bark "Jacobus Martinus". The ship was built in 1852 by Gips en Zn, at the yard "de Nijverheid"in Schiedam. Folkert was master of her until 1867.

++++

Notes: [comment], are the translator's comments.

de Nijverheid was one of the yards on the river Maas at schiedam which vanished in the early 1900s when Wilton Feyanoord grew up.

Delfshaven, is a small harbour between Schidam and Rotterdam, which is most famous as the place where the Pilgrim Fathers boarded the SPEEDWELL, to sail to Plymouth to join the MAYFLOWER. 

Apologies for any spelling mistakes, the spellchecker is not schitzophrenic!
++++


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## Meppelder (Mar 29, 2010)

Beste Roelof, 
I hope that you stil read duch If not than I have to translate a lot and that is not my dailey job.

Ik ben bezig met de genealogy van het geslacht "Meppelder" uit te zoeken. dus ben ik ook bij de ondergang van de thetis gestuit. Ik heb op het forum gezien dat je al het nodige gevonden hebt. Als dat alles is dan kan ik het nodige aanvullen. Wat ik (nog) niet heb is inzage of een kopie van het origineel dat de Ierse Admiraliteit heeft meegegeven aan de matroos Kromme. Daarvoor moet ik weer het archief in dordrecht of het nationaal archief in Den Haag induiken. Hier volgt wel een vertaling dat ik gevonden heb:

MEPPELDER, Hendrik +28-03-1857 te Iersche Kanaal (Thetis) 53j x Eddes
Ik heb de eer aan Uwe Excellentie hierbij in te zenden; 

[1e.] een acte in de Engelsche taal van de beeedigde verklaringen door den 
matroos Jacob de KROMME op den 28 Maart 1857 voor den daartoen door het Hoog Geregtshof aan Admirabiliteit van Ierland aangewezen Commissaris, aangaande het overvaren van het Nederlandsche koopvaardijbrikschip THETIS, gevoerd geweest door Kapitein H. MEPPELDER, en den vroege ochtend van dien dag door de stoomboot "Fredizonde", van Triest 

[2e.] een translaat in de Nederduitsche taal van bovenvermelde acte door den 
beeedigden vertaler bij de Arrondissements Regtbank te Dordrecht opgemaakt 
uit welke stukken is blijkende dat kapitein H. MEPPELDER bij dit ongeluk 
verdronken is 

[3e.] een extract uit de bij mij berustende monsterrol van het brikschip 
THETIS, waaruit is blijkende dat Jacob de KROMME voor het Brikschip THETIS 
gemonsterd was en als matroos tot de equipage van dat schip behoorde 
En wel om aangezien het verdrinken van den gezagvoerder H. MEPPELDER geen 
acte is opgemaakt zoodanige acht door deze stukken zoude kunnen vervangen 
worden en de inschrijving in de registers van overlijden daarop kunnen 
plaats hebben.

Pas op dat je je niet vergist met Hendrik (vader met vlag D4) en zijn zoon, die ook Kapitein te Dordrecht en Rotterdam was) en de vlag D 69 en R 450 voer.

Dan is het ook nog leuk te weten dat de dochter van Hendrik met de zoon van Kranenburg. Dus kende zij elkaar goed. Ook de huizen liggen dicht bij elkaar. 

Laat mij weten hoe de familie verhouding tussen jou en Hendrik zijn dan kan ik je verder helpen.
groet

Herman Meppelder


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## K urgess (Aug 14, 2006)

Welcome aboard from northern England, Herman.

A reminder that the site language is English and all posts should be made in that language.
It's not all that difficult to let Google translate for you.

"I'm doing the genealogy of the genus MEPPELDER "to find out. So I am in the sinking of the Thetis encountered. I've seen on the forum that you have found all needed. If that's all I can take the necessary complement. What I (still) not have access or is a copy of the original that the Irish Admiralty has given to the sailor curve. That should I store it in Dordrecht or the national archives in The Hague vicinity. Here is a translation that I found: 

MEPPELDER, Henry +28-03-1857 to Iersche Channel (Thetis) 53J x Eddes 
I have the honor to transmit to Your Excellency in this; 

[1st.] An act in the English language of the statements by the beeedigde 
CURVE Jacob the sailor on the March 28, 1857 before the tribunal since then by the High Commissioner appointed to Admirabiliteit of Ireland, on the go over the Dutch merchant ship brig Thetis, was conducted by Captain H. MEPPELDER, and the early morning of that day by the steamer "Fredi Sin", from Trieste 

[2nd.] A cross late in the Low German language of the said Act by the 
beeedigden translator at the county Regt Bank Dordrecht made 
is apparent from the do***ents that Captain H. MEPPELDER in this accident 
drowned 

[3rd.] An extract from the muster held me in the brig ship 
Thetis, which Jacob is apparent that the curve for the brick Ship Thetis 
mustered was a sailor and the crew of that ship belonged 
This is for the commander as the drowning of H. MEPPELDER no 
act is made eight such, these do***ents would be replaced 
and the registers of death could then 
place. 

Beware that you do not mistake with Henry (father flag D4) and his son, who also was captain of Dordrecht and Rotterdam) and the flag D 69 and R 450 feed. 

It is also nice to know that the daughter of Henry with the son of Kranenburg. So they knew each other well. The houses are close together. 

Let me know how the family relationship between you and Henry than I can help. 
Regards 

Herman MEPPELDER"


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## Jan Hendrik (Feb 14, 2005)

Coming back to Stein's observation with regard to the word "last".

Then, now going back to my highschool days in The Netherlands: 
One last = 2000 kilos, or 2 tonnes, thus same as in Norwegian Stein. (*)) 
This concerns the weight of ship's cargo.

Yet, "last" was also used as a measurement in volume as follows:
One last is 30 hektolitres of grain
One last is 17 barrels of herring

There are a number of Dutch expressions which includes the name last e.g.
lastig = difficult
een zware last = a heavy load
last geven = to be a nuisance or difficulties 
last dier = animal that carries a weight (like a horse/donkey)

and many more including one typical nautical expression: 
last lijn = last line or these days we call it the load line.
So all relevant.

also in Norwegian: 
laste = bebreide, byrde
lastebil = truck
lasteevne = load capacity.
Good one Stein. (Applause)

Best regards,
Jan


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## Billieboy (May 18, 2009)

Thanks Jan, I was translating a casualty report with "last" in it the other day, it's been niggling me for months!


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## Jan Hendrik (Feb 14, 2005)

Hi Billie,
Good to see you back.

I forgot about the Germans, they call their trucks , an *lkw*
meaning lastkraftwagen, or translated: heavy load vehicle

Surely the name "last" also here has same meaning.
Cheers
Jan


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## Billieboy (May 18, 2009)

Yes Jan, it does look like that, it would be, "A two ton truck", (or in American Army slang "A deuce-and-a-half", a two and a half ton truck the standard US Army transport).

It's one of those words that is heard many times but is only eventually, understood!


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