# Unconscious man trapped on ship (BBC News)



## SN NewsCaster (Mar 5, 2007)

Fire crews are trying to rescue an unconscious crewman trapped in the hull of a ship in Hampshire.

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## Pompeyfan (Aug 9, 2005)

Just heard about this on BBC Radio Solent, and can report that a man has sadly died.

David


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## jonsea (Sep 16, 2005)

That's right. Sadly one man has died and one was taken to hospital.


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## LizzieNo1 (Sep 13, 2007)

Damn tragic to hear this kind of thing. Saga Rose was the ship.
 Read Here


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## Pompeyfan (Aug 9, 2005)

Saga Rose is still in Southampton on berth 101. She was due to sail yesterday at 1700 but is now expected to leave this afternoon. Boudicca was due to berth at 101 today has gone to 38/9 the QE2 terminal. I am due to join her today fro three days.

David


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## Pompeyfan (Aug 9, 2005)

The dead man was a Filipino in his 40s. One of the Port Chaplin's from the Sailors Society was aboard yesterday who himself is Filipino so could speak to the crew in their own language. He will be back on board today in the crew mess.

David


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## SN NewsCaster (Mar 5, 2007)

*Trapped crewman 'ran out of air' (BBC News)*

A crewman who died after becoming trapped in the hull of a cruise ship "ran out of oxygen", police say.

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## JimC (Nov 8, 2007)

SN NewsCaster said:


> A crewman who died after becoming trapped in the hull of a cruise ship "ran out of oxygen", police say.
> 
> More from BBC News...


It will be interesting to read the official report on this. If these lads were shut-in then heads should roll. As many of us know - manhole covers should be taken into the tank with those working in it to make sure this does not happen. I always thought that's why they are oval in shape. Will this be a case of bad training all round? -ony time will tell.


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## ROBERT HENDERSON (Apr 11, 2008)

Hi JimC
I spent 50 years at sea with the exception of a short time ashore, I never thought of taking manhole covers into a tank with me, knowing that they are oval what you say makes sense.
Because of various toxic fumes in ballast tanks I always insisted that an officer or responsible crew member was stationed outside the tank in case of the men inside the tank being injured or overcome with fumes. This what I find hard to understand in this case, why was no one stationed outside the tank? As you say heads should roll over this .
Regards Robert


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## SN NewsCaster (Mar 5, 2007)

*Dead sailor had no breathing gear (BBC News)*

A crewman who died in a ship's ballast tank did not have the usual breathing apparatus, the BBC learns.

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## JimC (Nov 8, 2007)

ROBERT HENDERSON said:


> Hi JimC
> I spent 50 years at sea with the exception of a short time ashore, I never thought of taking manhole covers into a tank with me, knowing that they are oval what you say makes sense.
> Because of various toxic fumes in ballast tanks I always insisted that an officer or responsible crew member was stationed outside the tank in case of the men inside the tank being injured or overcome with fumes. This what I find hard to understand in this case, why was no one stationed outside the tank? As you say heads should roll over this .
> Regards Robert


Perhaps it was a training thing Robert - I was taught this by Capts. Adams and Pearson at james Watt and later when i was serving my time with Denholms. Anyway we always did have someone outside. Apart from the fact that invariably there were 'cluster' wires galore running through the manhole. (probably totally unacceptable now under HS regs). Another thing later was a 'work notice board' which was arranged for all to see warning of men in the tanks. Blower vents were used as well. I wonder what size the tanks were - i.e what volume of air in them when closed and how long that would have lasted them until exhausted?


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## MikeK (Jul 3, 2007)

I assume that someone tested the air in the tank with the oxymeter (or whatever it's correct name is) before allowing access. 
It was never the practice for everyone to wear BA gear that entered a tank in my experience (On a big job there wouldn't be enough for starters) - but for a responsible person to be stationed at the entrance with a couple of BA sets at the ready for emergencies along with means of communication, following said tests to make certain the atmosphere in the tank was safe
Anyway enough of the armchair experts, my thoughts are with his family in the Philippines who have lost a loved one and probably the main bread winner

Mike


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## SN NewsCaster (Mar 5, 2007)

*Dead cruise ship sailor is named (BBC News)*

A crewman who died after running out of oxygen in a ship's ballast tank is named by police.

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## vasco (Dec 27, 2007)

There are now strict rules about any enclosed space entry. BA Seta would probably not be practicle. However, they should have had escape sets with them. These are just a plastic hood fed by a hose attached to a 10-15 minute bottle, as well as personal monitors. All this is pretty much standard on tankers where enclosed space entry is common. I do not know about passenger ships.


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## tom e kelso (May 1, 2005)

A tragic incident like this is where the Sailors' Society (formerly British & International Sailors' Society) swings into action. It is purely incidental that the SS port chaplain in Southampton is Filippino but a blessing in disguise if for nothing other than the councilling the dead and injured men's shipmates will receive in Telegu. It may well be that the chaplain will.at the behest of Saga, sail with the ship, as happened when the Principal Chaplain sailed on the QE2 following a fatal knifing involving Filippino crew members a number of years ago. The Sailors' Society also has Chaplains stationed in the Philippines and I am confident that they are already involved with the families concerned. We haven't in Britain all that many active seafarers now, and whether we like it or not, the vast majority of ships are manned by such "Third World" crew members. The Sailors Society recognises no frontiers, in its ministering to seafarers irrespective of their religion or creed. 

Give it your support (and dare I say it), legacies will always be welcome and put to good and well-managed use in the best interests and welfare of our brethern still at sea.



Tom


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## Geoff_E (Nov 24, 2006)

Gentlemen,

This is a sad event, our condolences here are only correct. Somewhere relatives and friends will struggle to comprehend what has happened and it is, regretabely, unlikely that the results of any "official enquiry" will afford them solace. 

There has been negligence here!

Entry into confined spaces has long been a hazardous exercise, but the systems to mitigate those hazards are well known (well practised?) and should be in place on every ocean-going vessel, whatever type, large or small. 

ISM, frequently trumpeted by the IMO as the total solution to every safety problem aboard ship, has again failed to protect those who are expected to repose their trust in it!

Fear not, the "Saga Rose" will have shelves groaning under the weight of procedures and manuals (all properly corrected) - it appears not to have had a management structure which acknowledged their importance.

ISM places a very exact requirement on the shipowner/manager to provide a "safe system of work" for its' personnel. Specifically hazardous tasks such as "hot-work" (welding, burning etc.), electrical isolations, working at heights, overside working and yes, entry into confined spaces, are (or should be if the system is valid) covered by very closely defined rules.

Entry into spaces which have contained hazardous materials (oil cargo tanks etc., obviously requires the atmosphere to be both gas-free and breathable (frequently only achieved after long and arduous tank cleaning). Entry into void spaces or other compartments which may have contained ballast or potable water requires these compartments to be tested to ensure that a breathable atmosphere exists. 

When a ship is in port the preferred method of establishing these conditions should be by having the compartments tested by a recognised 3rd party and being appropriately certified. At sea this is not possible, therefore, in the first instance it needs to be established whether entry is actually necessary or whether it might be deferred. In any event the vessel must have available the equipment to make such tests.

Personnel should not be entering confined spaces unless that entry is properly controlled under a PTW (permit too work) system, ensuring that there is an established chain of communication covering the work in progress, and MOST IMPORTANTLY, that their entry and the duration of their work is monitored by trained personnel outside the space, who have appropriate safety and rescue equipment ready for use.

Excuse this, perhaps pedantic, posting gentlemen, but it touches a subject close to the heart as I am, not infrequently, required to inspect the ballast tanks of cargo barges for the offshore oil industry. 

This post is very deliberately aimed at today! I am well aware of the shortcomings and short-cuts of the past. We tell ourselves that these things no longer happen - really?

The buck starts at the top, with the managers/owners of "Saga Rose" and descends from there through the Master, who must bear the immediate responsibility, and down through all of those officers etc. whose responsibilities touch on these events. In this day and age "ignorance" is not a defence!

Yes, this is a rant! A seafarer has died, he wasn't my friend or shipmate, he wasn't yours? He was somebody's and we should, collectively, be angry.


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## JimC (Nov 8, 2007)

Geoff_E said:


> Gentlemen,
> 
> This is a sad event, our condolences here are only correct. Somewhere relatives and friends will struggle to comprehend what has happened and it is, regretabely, unlikely that the results of any "official enquiry" will afford them solace.
> 
> ...


Geoff, I too was, until recently involved in doing the same thing you did. My mind boggles as do probably a lot of other 'old minds' herein when I read of such horrors. I can well remember the old 'seat-of-the-pants' methods we used when I was a callow youth but in all the years I had hands-on involvement, I don't remember too many such incidents. At the risk of being called an old cynic - I believe this is the result of 'flash-Harry' , slick ship management stuff. Whereby, ships are run purely for a profit without proper consideration as to the human element in acheiving that profit. Ships and shipping in the past involved a huge human element . The ever increasing practice is to wherever possible, reduce numbers to a minimum thus de-humanising the job. Where this is not possible, all kinds of fancy rules and regulations have been brought in - not so much to protect the worker but to protect the employer from litigation and satisfy pesky union officials. These rules go under the guise of 'safety at work' etc. Nowhere in them will you see any official or specific reference to 'keep a good look-out for your work mates and those who depend on you'. Such a direction would need to recognise the need for people and the team work necessary to successfuly running ship..


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## ddraigmor (Sep 13, 2006)

I can recall that any tank work carried out aboard any ship I was on, and they were all UK flag - which is neither here nor there - were carried out with an officer testing the tank first, assessing the job, issuing a workingf permit and that would include not just standy-sets but also a lookout posted at the tank entrance.

Some of the cargo carried on supply ships meant noxious / dangerous fumes were very much in evidence, but even for bulk dry cargo like cement, the tanks were de pressurised, the engineers ensuring that and reportng to the bridge, before the lids wereopened. Also, due to the pressures involved, this was done slow enough so that any remaining pressure would be seen before it got too dangerous. Again, one man was posted outside the tank while you were in.

It does sound like this is a lack of training / pressure to maintain schedule issue and whilst my sympathies are with the dead man's family and his crew mates, it as someone else said on here - should never have happened.

Then again,. life is cheap nowadays. Profits before people.......

Jonty


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