# Early WWII Convoy



## treeve (Nov 15, 2005)

This is an unusual search in that all I have been told is that
it was at the outbreak of war, in the middle of the Atlantic,
there were *11 ships in the convoy.
10 ships had been sunk on voyage. Only one ship reached destination port*.
Please can anyone give me any ideas as to how to follow up this one?
I have an idea to look for a series of losses in the 1939 list of ships sunk,
and then to work out which convoy, if any, they were in.
Unsure if Warsailors or Convoyweb have a searchable database for such vague information.
Any suggestions, please?


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## stan mayes (Jul 22, 2006)

treeve said:


> This is an unusual search in that all I have been told is that
> it was at the outbreak of war, in the middle of the Atlantic,
> there were *11 ships in the convoy.
> 10 ships had been sunk on voyage. Only one ship reached destination port*.
> ...


I don't recall any sad incident as that early in the war but during January 1943 Convoy TM1 of 9 tankers was attacked by 10 U boats..7 of the tankers were sunk with a total of 56,453 tons.
The convoy was Trinidad to the Medi for the North African campaign.
Stan


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## Tom Inglis (May 3, 2007)

stan mayes said:


> I don't recall any sad incident as that early in the war but during January 1943 Convoy TM1 of 9 tankers was attacked by 10 U boats..7 of the tankers were sunk with a total of 56,453 tons.
> The convoy was Trinidad to the Medi for the North African campaign.
> Stan


Hi Stan, try to get a hold of the book called "The real Cruel sea" by Richard Woodman. It details about every convoy of the 2nd World War. I had a copy but lent to someone and it has not been returned yet, so tht's as far as I can help 
Tom inglis


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## treeve (Nov 15, 2005)

Thank you for that information. It is just that this is the recollection of a man that I have no doubt would have had total recall, he was on voyage with his wife. It may be possible that it was 'a convoy' in terms of convenience rather than in terms of military significance. The event made an impression upon them both as in arriving at the port of destination, it was realised how close to death they had been. With such significance, I am asking the living relative for more information as to date, voyage and even any names of ship. It is just that his recollection opens with 'at the outbreak of war, we were in mid Atlantic'. I was minded to think of the crews and what had happened to them.


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## davetodd (Jul 8, 2007)

treeve said:


> This is an unusual search in that all I have been told is that
> it was at the outbreak of war, in the middle of the Atlantic,
> there were *11 ships in the convoy.
> 10 ships had been sunk on voyage. Only one ship reached destination port*.
> ...


Treeve,
You might find the website attached of interest.
Lots of information regarding WW2 convoys.
The BC series listed there covers convoys from September 1939 to June 1940.
Regards
Dave

http://www.convoyweb.org.uk/hague/index.html


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## treeve (Nov 15, 2005)

Thanks for the tip on the book, just ordered it from Amazon (Thumb)


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## james killen (Sep 22, 2009)

'Fella by the name of Richard Woodman wrote a book awhile ago; "The Real Cruel Sea" - contains an infinite ammount of detail about merchant ship losses during WW2. Well worth perusing regarding Atlantic convoys.
He wrote a number of other books as well. If you read "The Real Cruel Sea" , "The Arctic Convoys" may also be of interest.
Regards,

J. KIllen


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## treeve (Nov 15, 2005)

Thanks Dave, I will have a look through that. The couple had travelled through Germany and Austria by kayak during 1936 to 1938 and were on their way in 1939 across the Atlantic. I find the whole 'episode' fascinating. All the best, Raymond


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## treeve (Nov 15, 2005)

In case you ever want to read about that kayak .. it is in the book Kingfisher abroad, Thomas Craske Rising and Ethel Julia Rodway-Barnes Rising.


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## stan mayes (Jul 22, 2006)

Treeve -
I have received confirmation from Billy McGee that there was no convoy with loss statistics as you are searching for.
Billy has many authentic books and do***ents covering all convoys of WW2.

Tom and James -
I have Richard Woodman's 'The Real Cruel Sea' and have just read the " Battle of Convoy TM1' - I had forgotten to refer to it..
One of the tankers torpedoed by U 514 was British Vigilance. Her Master and 26 of crew abandoned the blazing ship and were rescued by a corvette.
Three weeks later U 105 sighted the burnt out hulk and torpedoed her -
she sank with 27 incinerated corpses.
Stan


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## treeve (Nov 15, 2005)

Hello Stan and thank you, indeed I know Billy McGee and his untiring work; he has helped me on occasion already for which I am eternally grateful. All I can assume is that Mr & Mrs Rising were in a loose group of vessels, that he had thought of as a convoy. I am only hoping that amongst the 200 or so journals that he kept that there will be some account of that time. All the best, Raymond


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## treeve (Nov 15, 2005)

I have now been passed details of the vessel and date, from the journals. It was in 1940 (not 1939). They sailed from Montreal Quebec, arriving in Liverpool, where the other ships were headed but did not make it. 
It could well be that they were not headed for Liverpool and it had been assumed they had not made it? 
But he appears adamant that ships were sunk.
From Canada on board the "Duchess of Richmond" arriving Liverpool 26th October 1940 - Shipping line-Canadian Pacific Official No 160651.
I have found the following 
http://www.clydesite.co.uk/clydebuilt/viewship.asp?id=2248
and on The National Archives arriving passenger lists
BT 26/1190/4 arriving 26 Oct 1940.


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## stan mayes (Jul 22, 2006)

Treeve- I have found a report of a convoy of 22 ships losing 18 of them to U boat attacks during October 1940.
I will post details in morning.
Stan


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## treeve (Nov 15, 2005)

Thank you very much Stan. That is severe loss. A terrible month.
Looking down the list of losses for October 1940, it looks as if he crossed the Atlantic in HX79.


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## stan mayes (Jul 22, 2006)

Treeve- an error in my last posting.
There were 18 losses from 36 ships in convoy SC7.
Sailed from Sydney Cape Breton 5th October 1940 and arrived Liverpool 21st.
More details in Warsailors site for SC7.
From Convoyweb - Duchess of Richmond sailed independently from Montreal on 17th October 1940 and arrived Liverpool 25th...
HX 79 did suffer some losses but Duchess of Richmond is not recorded as having sailed in that convoy.
It is possible that Mr Rising heard of the terrible losses in SC7 [both ships were in the same area ] and thought how lucky they were not to be in that convoy.


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## treeve (Nov 15, 2005)

Thank you again, that will help to tie it together for the family, as it was a strong tradition in his memory and in family discussions that he and his wife saw ships going down. I am hoping eventually that the full account will be found amongst his well written journals. It was the very worst of losses during the war so I read. Woodman's book will be arriving in a day, I can check ship losses and the excellent Convoyweb and Warsailors; I am unsure if logs are available for the Duchess of Richmond, I believe she operated as a troopship at that time, as well?


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