# Name of ship lost by enemy action 4 11 42



## richard jarvis (Jun 22, 2009)

Hi, it is the first time I have posted on here so I hope you will forgive me if I dont do it right!
I am following up the war service of a father of a family friend. We have found his discharge record and it includes a reference to a discharge as a result of 'enemy action' on 4.11.42. Unfortunately the name of the ship is very badly written and I haven't, so far, been able to trace it. It appears to read Gued Gron. Does that mean anything to anybody, or can you suggest how best to pursue this further? Regards, Richard


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## non descript (Nov 18, 2005)

Richard, a warm welcome to you. Thank you for joining the community and thank you for your first posting - there are plenty of folk on here who should be able to help you and we will keep a watch for you; do enjoy the site and all it has to offer, and we very much look forward to your postings. Bon Voyage. (Thumb)


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## eriskay (Mar 26, 2006)

The 'Oued Grou', Elder Dempster for MOWT service, sunk by German submarine U-126 on the date you give whilst on a passage from Lagos to West African ports. Five of her complement lost their lives in the incident. Master was Captain S. Dodgshon.

O.N. 168263, she had been acquired by the MOWT in 1942 and put under the management of Elder Dempster. She was a small cargo ship, just under 800 tons gross, built at Elmshorn in 1921.

NB : Have just checked the ED Fleet History book by J.E. Cowden & J.O.C. Duffy and further details on Page 434 including a photograph of the ship and of Kapitanleutnant Ernst Bauer who was in command of U-126 at that time


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## eriskay (Mar 26, 2006)

Richard :

The U-boat that destroyed 'Oued Grou' was herself destroyed on 3rd July 1943 whilst heading for the Bay of Biscay, homeward bound after her sixth and last war patrol, having been caught in darkness on the surface by searchlight by an aircraft (Leigh Light Wellington) of 172nd Squadron, who successfully depth-charged the submarine as she dived. No survivors - all 55 crew perished. During her active 2-year war service, this U-boat sank 25 Allied ships amounting to in excess of 125,000 tons, and damaged 5 others in a total of six patrols.


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## John Rogers (May 11, 2004)

It never ceases to amaze me about the information provided to the layman who come to our site for help tracing the stories of family members lost at sea,these members do an outstanding job. I would like to submit a recommendation to these gallant men and women,and that is please spell out the the words like MOWT and other weird acronyms for the people doing the inquiring,the people have no idea what it means. Just a thought.
Thanks.

John.


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## Satanic Mechanic (Feb 23, 2009)

Ok Eriskay I´ll admit it - that was impressive (Thumb)


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## eriskay (Mar 26, 2006)

John :
Sorry - you are correct - herewith amends :

MOWT = Ministry of War Transport
ED = Elder Dempster
U (Boat) = Unterseeboot
O.N. = Official Number

Satanic Mechanic : (oops ... nearly called you SM !)
Just collating information from published works by those who really did the work - so, no credit due to me, but thanks for the compliment.

Angus.


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## non descript (Nov 18, 2005)

Angus, you are a gentleman, many thanks for your excellent support of Richard with such a quality answer. (Thumb) 
Mark


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## Fieldsy (Nov 3, 2008)

eriskay said:


> Just collating information from published works by those who really did the work - so, no credit due to me, but thanks for the compliment.
> 
> Angus.


Knowing how to find information is as important as generating that information in the first place. Otherwise, it would exist in a vacuum!
(Thumb)


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## DAVIDJM (Sep 17, 2005)

Built in 1922 for Aug. Bolten, Hamburg as PETER

Sold 1925 to Compagnie de Navigation Paquet, Marseille renamed OUED GROU

1941 captured by HMS VANSITTART off Senegal


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## yvon (Oct 17, 2005)

Hi,
Photo of OUED GROU now posted : http://www.shipsnostalgia.com/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/183132
Regards, Yvon.


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## John Rogers (May 11, 2004)

eriskay,thanks for taking my post in the manner it was sent.
We all learn from the information,many thanks to all that do the research and post it.

John.


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## richard jarvis (Jun 22, 2009)

*Oued Gron*

I am very impressed and grateful for the information provided and the speed of response. My friends father, Thomas Carey, was radio operator of the Oued Gron. He had mentioned being sunk but never gave her any details before his death 4 years ago.
He had been a trawlerman before the war and returned to that after 1947.
The Oued Gron appears to have been his first MOWT posting. He subsequently served as a radio operator on the Fort ***berland (I do not have her ship number) the Empire Grebe (168174), MV Sarmiento (168866), and finally the HMHS Karapara (137801). His discharge was on 21 3 1947.
Couple of further points interest me:

The Oued Grou was sunk on 4 11 42, there then appears (the dates are proving difficult to decipher) a gap of quite a few months before he started service on the Fort ***berland. I wonder whether there was any delay in picking up survivors or in bringing them back to the UK (he joined Fort ***berland in Liverpool). Was the Oued Grou in convoy or alone?

When I started to research this I had a ship number for what I thought was the Gued Gron; 168263. When I checked this number on the records I could find on the web I found that there was no entry for this number! Assuming the number is correct, and it is written clearly on his record book, should the record be reinstated? If so how?
Many thanks again, Richard


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## Hugh MacLean (Nov 18, 2005)

Hello Richard,
OUED GROU was sailing independently when sunk. The survivors landed in Nigeria so it is possible they had to wait a while for another ship to take them back. It is possible that the ship that repatriated him back to the UK will be shown on his CRS 10 (service record from 1941). If you need advice on this file just ask.

The official number for OUED GRON (168263) is correct.

Details of her sinking here: http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/2366.html

FORT ***BERLAND official number 169575 built 1943 for the Ministry of War Transport (MoWT)
Regads


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## Roger Griffiths (Feb 10, 2006)

Hello, 
To help you fill in some detail. There is a survivors report for OUED GROU in the British national archive.
Reference ADM199/2143 page 41
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/...CATID=5054528&SearchInit=4&CATREF=adm199/2143
You should be able to obtain this by hitting the REQUEST THIS button on the link.
Take the digital express option and be sure to give the ships name and the page number 41. Should cost you £8.50 direct to your PC 24 hr. service, no find, no fee.

Roger


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## eriskay (Mar 26, 2006)

Richard :

As Hugh Mac Lean has indicated, it was often the case, exigencies of warfare prevailing, that surviving seamen took several months to get back to the United Kingdom as they awaited an available berth, or berths, on a homeward-bound vessel, or indeed more than one vessel, as was sometimes the case.

Three seamen from my small Hebridean island were serving on a Buries Marks ship (The 1940 Sunderland-built M.V. La Cordillera) that was torpedoed (U-163) and sunk about 85 miles East of Barbados on 5th November 1942, coincidentally the day before your friend's father was sunk in enemy action. They had been on a passage, lightship, from the Middle East to the USA via Suez and Cape Town and bound for New York via Trinidad.

Two of the three were back on their Island within a month of their ship being sunk. The third one, a good friend and neighbour, who just died last year, took almost five months to reach home and in that time sailed 3/4 way around the world on a variety of ships (including a one month stay in New York during which he was well looked after and provided for as a Distressed British Seaman) but on the various ships he had, of course, to 'work his passage', a normal situation.

When he duly arrived home he was bemused, and not best pleased, that his erstwhile shipmates had been repatriated many months previously! That was not an unusual experience, however, one had to await a suitable berth coming available and just be glad of it, and indeed to be alive. La Cordillera were lucky, Captain John Meneely, 32 officers and crew, and 5 gunners surviving the sinking and getting away in the boats - sadly, one crewman and two gunners lost their lives in the action.

U-163 was herself lost on 13th March of 1943, believed to have been the victim of a depth-charge attack by HMCS Prescott off the Spanish coast in a position North of El Ferrol, with her commander, Korvettekapitan zur See Kurt-Eduard Engelmann and his 56 crew all lost in the action - no survivors.

The 'La Cordillera' survivors, following questioning by the U-Boat Commander, eventually made a landfall at Carlist Bay, Barbados.

Glad you have had some good help and suggestions from the learned members of this great forum.

Good luck with any subsequent research on behalf of your friend. Will separately post some details for the other subsequent vessels he served upon. 

Angus.


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## eriskay (Mar 26, 2006)

Richard :

Some additional details as promised :

****berland : O.N. 169575*
Launched and Built in 1943 by Burrard of Vancouver, Canada
7,134 tons cargo ship for MOWT, Reg London
1950 : Cape Franklin
1956 : African Sky
1966 : Broken up in Yokosuka

*Empire Grebe : O.N. 168174*
Launched and built in 1918 by Northwest Steel, Portland, Orgegon, USA
5,735 tons - cargo ship originally named 'West Wauna' for US Shipping Board
1941 : 'Empire Grebe'
1946 : 'Inchmark'
1949 : Wrecked on 29th May

*M.V. Sarmiento O.N. 168866*
Launched and built in 1943 by Harland & Wolff of Belfast
8,335 tons cargo ship for Pacific S.N. Coy, Reg Port Liverpool
1969 : 'Monomachos'
1970 : 'Gladiator'
1971 : Broken up in Shanghai

*HMHS Karapara : O.N. 137801*
Launched and Built in 1915 by Swan Hunter Wigham Richardson, Low Walker
7,117 tons Passenger/Cargo ship for British India S.N. Coy. Ltd Reg. Glasgow
Broken up in Bombay 1950

Angus


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## richard jarvis (Jun 22, 2009)

A great many thanks again. As I write this Pamela, Thomas Carey's daughter, is sitting with me and she has been amazed by the efforts people have made to provide us with such good information. We haven't been able to get it yet but we will follow up on the National Archives for the report on the survivors experiences. We had absolutely no idea something so poignant about her father would be available. Many thanks again, is there still further information out there somewhere?!


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