# Air France plane 'missing' off Brazil with 215 on board



## shamrock (May 16, 2009)

This sort of thing always sends shudders through me...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8076848.stm

Can't imagine what the families of those aboard are going through not knowing if the plane is down or just out of contact for some reason......awful


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## non descript (Nov 18, 2005)

_Air traffic control lost contact with the flight at 0600 GMT shortly after it took off from Rio de Janeiro bound for Charles de Gaulle airport in Paris. 

"The plane was expected in Paris at 11:10 a.m. (0910 GMT)," the spokeswoman said. _


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## shamrock (May 16, 2009)

Numbers on board upped to 228 to include the crew. The plane is now officially 2 hours late arriving at Paris (local time) and searches have started in the approximate area where contact was lost.

The Air France website indictates that it was flight number AF447 and as yet is not giving any further information out regarding the flight other than it left Rio on time last night (local time).


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## exsailor (Dec 18, 2005)

Aircraft reported to be an Airbus 330-200 on Flight 447.


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## non descript (Nov 18, 2005)

Prime Minister Gordon Brown has said he fears British citizens may have been among 228 people on board a French jet which disappeared over the Atlantic. 

Flight AF 447 left Rio de Janeiro in Brazil, bound for Paris, at 1900 local time (2300 BST) on Sunday 31 May. 

The Airbus suffered a short circuit at 0214 GMT caused - Air France officials suspect - by a lightning strike. 

The Foreign Office is "urgently looking into" whether Britons were aboard. The PM promised "all checking necessary". 

"I do fear there may be some British citizens on board," Mr Brown told Sky News. 

"I have been in touch with the Foreign Office. There hasn't been contact with that plane for some time." 

The Brazilian Air Force is searching for the plane, which is reported to have disappeared 300km (186 miles) north-east of the Brazilian city of Natal. 

It was well over the ocean when it disappeared, making search efforts more difficult. 

The Airbus 330-200, with a 12-strong crew and one baby and seven other children among the passengers, had been expected to arrive in Paris at 1110 local time (1010 GMT). 

The French government has ruled out hijacking as a cause of the plane's loss. 

Air France has opened a telephone hotline for friends and relatives of people on the plane - 00 33 1570 21055 for callers outside France and 0800 800812 for inside France. 


Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/1/hi/uk/8077437.stm

Published: 2009/06/01 13:59:30 GMT

© BBC MMIX


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## Tmac1720 (Jun 24, 2005)

Is it just me or is there quite a lot of Airbus aircraft involved in crashes etc in recent years.


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## non descript (Nov 18, 2005)

Tmac, I think that recent crashes – Hudson River being one example – have tended to highlight the name, but I am aware of one in particular that was not made very public – the first one, a brand new Airbus A340-600, in November 2007, that had never flown and never will…

http://markpknowles.com/first-airbus-crash-photos/


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## shamrock (May 16, 2009)

The nationalities of those on board AF447 has now been give by Air France as follows...

This list was made up on the basis of the furnished informations by the Brazilian authorities. * 1 South African * 26 Germans * 2 Americans * 1 Argentinian * 1 Austrian * 1 Belgian * 58 Brazilian * 5 British * 1 Canadian * 9 Chinese * 1 Croat * 1 Dane * 2 Spaniards * 1 Estonian * 61 French * 1 Gambian * 4 Hungarians * 3 Irishmen * 1 Icelander * 9 Italians * 5 Lebanese * 2 Morrocans * 1 Dutch * 3 Norwegians * 1 Filipino * 2 Poles * 1 Romanian * 1 Russian * 3 Slovak * 1 Swede * 6 Swiss * 1 Turk


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## R58484956 (Apr 19, 2004)

Air France A330-203, Registration letters FG-ZCP, Serial Number 660.


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## shamrock (May 16, 2009)

When the news first broke this morning that a plane was missing, there was a worldwide sharp intake of breath. As the day has worn on, speculation as to why this tragedy has happened have been tossed back and forth. The why's, wherefore's and could be's, should be's will no doubt be in the forefront of the investigators minds over the coming days, weeks and months as they sift through what evidence they have.

But until those nationalities were released it was all too easy to set aside that all around the world tonight there are families whose loved ones will not be going home. Those families will be mourning their losses long after the ink has dried on the accident report, those families will be forever asking 'why them?'.

Thoughts & prayers go to each and every family, friend and colleague of those who will not be going home tonight or ever again.


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## John Rogers (May 11, 2004)

*Air France*

I was just reading that they have found pieces of the plane that went down.

John.


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## non descript (Nov 18, 2005)

From Bloomberg:

_Brazilian Air Force planes searching for an Air France Airbus that disappeared over the Atlantic Ocean with 228 people on board found floating wreckage including a plane seat, oil and other debris. 

The material was found as searchers focused on an area about 650 kilometers (400 miles) off the coast of Brazil’s Fernando de Noronha island, Colonel Jorge Amaral told reporters in Brasilia. The find came after spotter planes, helicopters and navy vessels were dispatched by Brazil and France to locate the Airbus A330-200, which dropped from radar screens after hitting turbulence as it flew to Paris from Rio de Janeiro yesterday. The French government said there’s no evidence so far that points to terrorism. 

Air France said it isn’t ruling out a lightning strike on the aircraft, which reported an electrical-circuit breakdown and sent 10 automated distress messages before it vanished. Amaral said the wreckage was found away from the flight path and that the plane may have attempted to turn back. 

“That’s the kind of message you receive from a dying, breaking-up airplane,” John Nance, a pilot who runs an aviation-consulting business, said in an interview from Seattle. 

The plane probably ran into a 300-kilometer-wide wall of thunderstorms and broke up before pilots could issue a mayday call, said Denny Fitch, a retired United Airlines pilot and consultant. “Whatever it was, it happened very quickly,” he said. 

The Brazilian Air Force handed over its findings to the French accident investigator, a French Transport Ministry official said in a telephone interview today. The official, who cannot be named because of internal rules, declined to comment further. 

Struck By Lightning 

“Lightning strike is one hypothesis among others, but one can’t imagine that would be the cause of the plane going down,” French Transport Minister Dominique Bussereau said in an interview on French radio station Europe One today. “It could be days, weeks or months” before anything is known about the cause of the crash, he said. 

Terrorism hasn’t been ruled out, Defense Minister Herve Morin said in the same interview, though there’s no evidence to date to suggest it. 

The search effort is focusing on an area of ocean about 1,100 kilometers from the city of Natal and 770 kilometers from Fernando de Noronha, the Brazilian Navy said. 

U.S. Offer 

The French government, meanwhile, has accepted a U.S. offer to supply data gathered by the Pentagon’s network of military satellites that might yield information on where the plane had gone down, Bussereau said. The U.S. Defense Department said it sent a reconnaissance aircraft and search and rescue team to join the effort. 

Flight 447 sent its last distress message from the area, and Tam SA, Brazil’s second-largest airline, said crew members on one of its flights saw flashes of light over the ocean about 1,300 kilometers from the island. A French ship found no sign of the missing aircraft where the flashes of light were reported, Brazil’s air force said. 

The air force said it hasn’t detected an emergency signal from the plane, which had been scheduled to land yesterday at 11:15 a.m. Paris time. 

Emergency locator beacons on the aircraft and “pingers” on the so-called black boxes are of little use when a plane is deep underwater, Nance said, adding it would be like looking for a “needle in the haystack.” 

“Everything depends on the depth” of the ocean, France’s Bussereau said. “Beyond 3,000 meters, it’s more difficult” to locate the black boxes. _


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## Pat bourke (Jun 30, 2007)

This is a very sad occassion, the grief has visited my town. The daughter of a friend of mine is one of three Irish female doctors who perished. Needless to say it has left an air of gloom around the area. Condolences to all who lost loved ones and friends. Regards Pat.


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## RayJordandpo (Feb 23, 2006)

Very sad news indeed. I worked in Brazil for five years and often took the Air France flight from Rio to Paris. It sends shudders up my spine.


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## hughesy (Dec 18, 2007)

Everytime I hear or read about events such as this, such a tragic loss of life.
I think about the tremendous amount of Grief, all those families and people are going though. 
Makes me count my blessings, deepest condolences for those people.

with repect for their loss
Hughesy


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## SN NewsCaster (Mar 5, 2007)

*Deep-sea challenge of Air France debris (BBC News)*

More from BBC News...


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## SN NewsCaster (Mar 5, 2007)

*Air France jet debris recovered (BBC News)*

Brazilian ships start recovering debris from the Air France plane lost over the Atlantic three days ago, an official says.

More from BBC News...


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## ROBERT HENDERSON (Apr 11, 2008)

Pat bourke said:


> This is a very sad occassion, the grief has visited my town. The daughter of a friend of mine is one of three Irish female doctors who perished. Needless to say it has left an air of gloom around the area. Condolences to all who lost loved ones and friends. Regards Pat.


Pat
Please accept my sincere condolences on behalf of your friend and indeed for all those who have lost loved one on this terrible tragedy.

Regards Robert


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## Richard Green (Apr 9, 2006)

Sad also to report that one of the passengers was a girl I taught English to for a couple of years up to the spring of 2008. She and her husband are both missing presumed dead, leaving a 15 year old daughter. She was really good looking and vivaciaous, loved sport and particularly diving. I believe she was in Brazil on a diving holiday. I'm still actively engaged in training at JVC France where she worked for 11 years and everyone is pretty shocked...


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## benjidog (Oct 27, 2005)

According to a report on the BBC website HERE, the seats etc. discovered in the sea didn't belong to the lost plane. A french nuclear sub is being enlisted to try and discover the black box flight recorder.

It is a bit disconcerting to think there are bits of other aircraft just floating around in the Atlantic - hopefully the stuff they found will be investigated as well.


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## Richard Green (Apr 9, 2006)

It seems, according to the news here, that they haven't actually found anything. No photos of any debris picked up etc etc. Seems like press extrapolation to me. I hope they find the flight recorders...but then that will be a bit like dropping an object the size of a small toolbox from 1000m above the himalayas and asking someone wearing a blindfold to go and fetch...


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## Pompeyfan (Aug 9, 2005)

I understand that at least 6 distress signals were sent automatically from the aircraft's computer indicating electric failures within five minutes of each other, the final one indicating that outside air had got into the cabin.

I also understand that the captain reported strong winds and black clouds charged with electricity. Whatever it was that caused this catastrophe, whether it was blown apart from the fierce storm they seem to have encountered, or a bomb, it happened so quickly that the captain had no time to send a mayday.

From what I have read, this was a very unusual weather related set of catastrophic events.

David


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## Pat bourke (Jun 30, 2007)

Many Thanks Robert for your thoughts. 

Regards Pat.


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## duquesa (Aug 31, 2006)

*Air France Plane*

The French Authorities have just released a statement that they have no evidence this was weather related. In the words of an Airbus pilot last night - "If the reports of failures are true, that aircraft, for some as yet unknown reason, became a flying brick".


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## shamrock (May 16, 2009)

The latest reports suggest that although the pilots said nothing of any problems encountered, the plane sent 24 error messages that effectively spells out that all the computerised systems and the auto pilot shut down within about 4 minutes prior to the plane going off radar.

The 330 has got a past in regards to avionics failures that have caused uncommanded loss of altitude, two of them from Qantas did so last year. They were both the 330-300 variant, the AF plane was a 200 variant. It is too early to say if the three incidents are linked in any way but there is evidence that the same avionics have been shown to be the ones at fault on the latest accident.

There has still been no sign of wreckage of the plane, what was thought to be so has now been proven otherwise.


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## shamrock (May 16, 2009)

It seems that the sea is finally giving up the dead from the plane....

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8087303.stm


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## rstimaru (Jun 15, 2005)

According to the 6 o-clock news they have seen bodies in the water bob


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## Richard Green (Apr 9, 2006)

Press reports today 17 bodies now recovered with photos of debris....Air France are reported to have seen problems with the sensing devices replacing pitot heads, which measure air speed, on this type of aircraft. A recent Quantas flight experienced problems which seem to involve this device which caused injuries to passengers. A French nuclear sub should be in the crash zone now to try to locate the flight recorders with its listening capabilities. They will need a deep diving sub to go and get them even when/if they are located...


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## non descript (Nov 18, 2005)

This *link* is reasonably informative.


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## J Boyde (Apr 7, 2005)

I recent news item in NZ suggested that a submarine may become incolve in the search. A critical part of the search is for the black boxes. I know what it is like to stop rather quickly on an aircraft. Great fan of straps, as much as they hurt. Regardless of how far I fly, I travel with the strap on, although loose for general use. It is important to remember the number of flights there are around the world every day. Compare the numbers with the number killed on car crashes every day. It is when there are many numbers involved that there is a lot of public attention. None the less, I do expend my sorry to the families.
Jim B


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## SN NewsCaster (Mar 5, 2007)

*More bodies found from lost jet (BBC News)*

Search teams recover more human remains from the Atlantic following last week's plane crash, bringing the total to 17 bodies.

More from BBC News...


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## Richard Green (Apr 9, 2006)

News services here reporting 22 bodies now recovered...


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## Pat bourke (Jun 30, 2007)

We had a memorial service tonight for my friends daughter. It was a very moving occasion. Lets hope the sea will give up its dead and let the families have closure. Thanks to the people who are out there doing the clean up. Thanks Pat.


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## Richard Green (Apr 9, 2006)

News today is of 44 bodies recovered. Forensic bods are now taking DNA samples for identification. There is talk of having to work quickly on recovering the maximum of debris and bodies as there will be a change of current around the middle of the month which will disperse any traces even more than they are already. Indications are that there was a partial mid-air disintegartion of the aircraft. No news yet of the nuclear sub Emeraude having heard anything from the flight recorders and comment is that location of these will approach the miraculous even before they try to retrieve them...


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## chadburn (Jun 2, 2008)

One of the Brits lost was a newly promoted Master with Subsea 7 coming home after his first time in Command of one of their Vessels working offshore. Condolences to all the Family's


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## Richard Green (Apr 9, 2006)

News this morning of 50 bodies now recovered. It's also reported that there is no evidence that these victims were wearing life-jackets which seems to support the impression that the aircraft broke up in mid-air...


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## shamrock (May 16, 2009)

Authorities have confirmed that one of the bodies identified is that of Graham Gardner from Gourock...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/glasgow_and_west/8120811.stm

Knowing that a loved one has died in an accident is terrible for those left behind, moreso when there is no body to mourn, least now Mr Gardner's family can finally mourn their loss and lay his body to rest with dignity.


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## Don Matheson (Mar 13, 2007)

Heard on the news last night that Brazil has stopped searching for any further bodies or equipment from the aircraft. The French still have their submarine in the area and France will continue with their search for the aircraft.

Don


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## shamrock (May 16, 2009)

Don Matheson said:


> Heard on the news last night that Brazil has stopped searching for any further bodies or equipment from the aircraft. The French still have their submarine in the area and France will continue with their search for the aircraft.
> 
> Don


Yes, they have stopped body search/collection. Their prime focus now is the blackboxes.

As a side note, I received an email yesterday from the NTSB who are now looking into two incidents with A330's (one TAM & one NWA) that suffered annomolies with pitot related avionics in May and June. Every operator is changing their equipment...but as yet no mandatory airworthiness directive to do so has been issued, they are still acting of their own volition to do so.


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## sidsal (Nov 13, 2007)

As an aviator in my younger days I have a very detailed assessment of the AF disaster. It is several pages long . Being compute illiterate I don't know how to post it here but if anyone would like a copy I can e-mail it if you send me a PM
Sid


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## SN NewsCaster (Mar 5, 2007)

*Air France box search winds down (BBC News)*

French ships with US listening devices are ending their hunt for the black boxes of a jet lost over the Atlantic in June. 

More from BBC News...


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## SN NewsCaster (Mar 5, 2007)

*Air France 'black box' hunt ends (BBC News)*

French investigators abandon the search for the 'black boxes' from the Air France passenger jet which crashed in the Atlantic Ocean.

More from BBC News...


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## SN NewsCaster (Mar 5, 2007)

*Air France jet search 'to resume' (BBC News)*

The search for wreckage of an Air France jet that crashed off the coast of Brazil will resume in March, French officials say.

More from BBC News...


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