# Was freelance all it was cracked up to be?



## Peter Eccleson

Hi Guys
Quite a few R/O's went freelance throughout the 70's and 80's. what was the pay like? What were conditions like? Was it really worth the effort? 
Find it hard to recall my salary back then, but I know that I started with IMRC on £200 a month in 1971 which I thought was a fortune. Can't remember what I ended up on with Cunard in 1981 but it was a lot better than the £8500 a year ( inc London weighting allowance) working for P&O TQMS ashore as a radio superintendent!


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## athinai

Hi Eric, I did a few trips with GTZM and then went Greek., I needed the money badly and it enabled me to realise some of my ambitions., Went into property and wound up with quite a large property portfolio which to this day is still better than any pension I would have received throughout my seagoing career. Also had a day job in another profession., from which I am retired.
A lot of people are afraid to take chances, I was'nt particularly expert in property but the facts and figures looked so enticing, and it worked for me.


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## James Clarke

Peter Eccleson said:


> Hi Guys
> Quite a few R/O's went freelance throughout the 70's and 80's. what was the pay like? What were conditions like? Was it really worth the effort?
> Find it hard to recall my salary back then, but I know that I started with IMRC on £200 a month in 1971 which I thought was a fortune. Can't remember what I ended up on with Cunard in 1981 but it was a lot better than the £8500 a year ( inc London weighting allowance) working for P&O TQMS ashore as a radio superintendent!


Hi Peter

Wow! Are you sure about the _IMR_ salary you quote at £200/mth? I ask because I know in 1970 when I was due to take my own ship with _Marconi_ the rate was less than £70/mth and you had to buy/pay for all that uniform stuff on top. I can't imagine that another Radio Station provider would be much off the _MIMCO_ rates - otherwise how could they get contracts from shipping companies? I held the BOT Radar Certificate as well as the _PMG_.

I went straight from _MIMCO_ and _British_ ships in early 1970 to work for the _Israeli_ government line _Zim Israel Navigation_ working out of under-siege _Haifa and I felt I was well paid on a similar figure to that you quote - £200/mth. I had to pay-off my "student loan" and would still be so doing if I stayed on British ships. We also got a uniform allowance (which I immediately took to the local tailors in Haifa and used to pay for a made-to-measure suit in best Huddersfield woolen cloth the only m-to-m one I have ever had). The Israeli's didn't go for any "braid and bull****"; rather it was expediency and professionalism and we all worked as a team - because I suppose we were all in the same boat.

I later worked for the Greek tanker company N.J. Goulandris under the Greek flag as well as the US Cargill Corporataion under Liberaian flag and the free-lance rates there were all in the same ball-park - I seem to recall the highest I earned in 1973 being about £230/mth. These were all-in rates to include holiday pay; so you earned as long as you were aboard ship. There were some significant advantages like being tax-free (as long as you met the HM Revenue for UK residents criteria; not being a British resident I was not covered by this). Consequently there was no NI or pension to pay and of course no entitlement as a result.

It wasn't all plain-sailing in that one had to be a very self-reliant type who could cope with being the only English first-language speaker aboard and in the case of the Greeks you could be the only non-Greek amongst the officers. The language of the officers' saloon would be that of the principal nationality: eg. Hebrew or Greek for example. The language of business was English but of course all the family telegrams were in Greek and boy were there lots - because every Greek receives greetings rather like birthday greetings from family ashore on their Name-Day example St. George's Day - for all those named Giorgios and there were many. The use of phoenetics was a bit of a shock - as I had never come across them on British ships - so I had to rapidly find out what they were.

One major faux-pas to avoid was that of appearing to be non-Greek when working Athina Radio/SVA which is something that I luckily, and unknowingly, avoided. I just happened to use the Greek abbreviated salutations like KM for Kalimera instead of GM for Good Morning and so on. That was quite important especially when working them from the mid-Pacific even if I had a 1KW main transmitter to punch-through the clatter. I later heard of other R/Os who were discovered to be non-Greek and found it extremely difficult to get a response from SVA.

I never regretted my decision as a young 20 year-old to go free-lance. I worked with many nationalities and enjoyed the great mix which that provided. The only time I had a first language English-speaking person with me was when my wife Sue joined me just after our 1971 wedding aboard the Goulandris flag-ship Princess Anne-Marie in Honolulu and on subsequent Cargill Corporation ships.

Hopefully, Peter your enquiry will generate many more responses from former free-lance Sparkies.

Best wishes!

James_


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## Varley

Peter Eccleson said:


> Hi Guys
> Quite a few R/O's went freelance throughout the 70's and 80's. what was the pay like? What were conditions like? Was it really worth the effort?
> Find it hard to recall my salary back then, but I know that I started with IMRC on £200 a month in 1971 which I thought was a fortune. Can't remember what I ended up on with Cunard in 1981 but it was a lot better than the £8500 a year ( inc London weighting allowance) working for P&O TQMS ashore as a radio superintendent!


Peter, I am sure my Junior pay in 1971 was around GBP 87 a month was IMR that much better? In the 80's I was down to GCBS relatively often if I'd know you were around I would have looked you up (I did visit one P&O building when we were politely handing over the Adnatco fleet to you in 1981 - just before Ian Denholm was announced as Chairman and then gazumped by the Sterling - ghastly office.


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## Peter Eccleson

Varley said:


> Peter, I am sure my Junior pay in 1971 was around GBP 87 a month was IMR that much better? In the 80's I was down to GCBS relatively often if I'd know you were around I would have looked you up (I did visit one P&O building when we were politely handing over the Adnatco fleet to you in 1981 - just before Ian Denholm was announced as Chairman and then gazumped by the Sterling - ghastly office.


Dave, I think you are quite correct. I recall my father saying "£25 a week at 17 years old! It was worth going to wireless college!" Perhaps Cunard was £200 in 1973. 
Anyone know the REOU rates of 1980? Can't remember what my final pay scale was then. 

Dave, left TQMS in 1983 and joined Ships Electronic Svcs - closely followed by Vic Oram who I know you know.


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## Peter Eccleson

James Clarke said:


> Hi Peter
> 
> Wow! Are you sure about the _IMR_ salary you quote at £200/mth? I ask because I know in 1970 when I was due to take my own ship with _Marconi_ the rate was less than £70/mth and you had to buy/pay for all that uniform stuff on top. I can't imagine that another Radio Station provider would be much off the _MIMCO_ rates - otherwise how could they get contracts from shipping companies? I held the BOT Radar Certificate as well as the _PMG_.
> 
> I went straight from _MIMCO_ and _British_ ships in early 1970 to work for the _Israeli_ government line _Zim Israel Navigation_ working out of under-siege _Haifa and I felt I was well paid on a similar figure to that you quote - £200/mth. I had to pay-off my "student loan" and would still be so doing if I stayed on British ships. We also got a uniform allowance (which I immediately took to the local tailors in Haifa and used to pay for a made-to-measure suit in best Huddersfield woolen cloth the only m-to-m one I have ever had). The Israeli's didn't go for any "braid and bull****"; rather it was expediency and professionalism and we all worked as a team - because I suppose we were all in the same boat.
> 
> I later worked for the Greek tanker company N.J. Goulandris under the Greek flag as well as the US Cargill Corporataion under Liberaian flag and the free-lance rates there were all in the same ball-park - I seem to recall the highest I earned in 1973 being about £230/mth. These were all-in rates to include holiday pay; so you earned as long as you were aboard ship. There were some significant advantages like being tax-free (as long as you met the HM Revenue for UK residents criteria; not being a British resident I was not covered by this). Consequently there was no NI or pension to pay and of course no entitlement as a result.
> 
> It wasn't all plain-sailing in that one had to be a very self-reliant type who could cope with being the only English first-language speaker aboard and in the case of the Greeks you could be the only non-Greek amongst the officers. The language of the officers' saloon would be that of the principal nationality: eg. Hebrew or Greek for example. The language of business was English but of course all the family telegrams were in Greek and boy were there lots - because every Greek receives greetings rather like birthday greetings from family ashore on their Name-Day example St. George's Day - for all those named Giorgios and there were many. The use of phoenetics was a bit of a shock - as I had never come across them on British ships - so I had to rapidly find out what they were.
> 
> One major faux-pas to avoid was that of appearing to be non-Greek when working Athina Radio/SVA which is something that I luckily, and unknowingly, avoided. I just happened to use the Greek abbreviated salutations like KM for Kalimera instead of GM for Good Morning and so on. That was quite important especially when working them from the mid-Pacific even if I had a 1KW main transmitter to punch-through the clatter. I later heard of other R/Os who were discovered to be non-Greek and found it extremely difficult to get a response from SVA.
> 
> I never regretted my decision as a young 20 year-old to go free-lance. I worked with many nationalities and enjoyed the great mix which that provided. The only time I had a first language English-speaking person with me was when my wife Sue joined me just after our 1971 wedding aboard the Goulandris flag-ship Princess Anne-Marie in Honolulu and on subsequent Cargill Corporation ships.
> 
> Hopefully, Peter your enquiry will generate many more responses from former free-lance Sparkies.
> 
> Best wishes!
> 
> James_


_
James
Thanks. See my response to Dave Varley. Little grey cells but rusty! I had a Zim guy at college with me when I did my radar. We were in same digs in Liverpool. He was much older than me at the time ( most people are when you are 19 years old). His name was Les and he was originally from Manchester but lived in Haifa - guess he was mid 30's back in 1972._


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## James Clarke

Peter Eccleson said:


> James
> Thanks. See my response to Dave Varley. Little grey cells but rusty! I had a Zim guy at college with me when I did my radar. We were in same digs in Liverpool. He was much older than me at the time ( most people are when you are 19 years old). His name was Les and he was originally from Manchester but lived in Haifa - guess he was mid 30's back in 1972.


Peter

I am sure that the rates you mentioned were not paid on UK ships anytime in the 1970s. I was on the grand sum of £60/mth with MIMCO as Junior and that would have risen to £69/mth when I got my own ship and that was with BOT Radar Cert. When I moved to Haifa I trebled the pay that I would have received if I had stayed with MIMCO.

Do you have any contact with Les in Haifa? He would be mid-70s now of still with us.

I returned to Israel and Haifa last year for the first time since 1971 and I must say that I really felt as if I had returned to home - such was the mark that my time there apparently had on me. Sadly, we only had 2 days since it was part of a cruise - the cheapest way to get there. I only left Zim in 1971 reluctantly because I had to be relieved in Sheerness when my ship the mv Devora was diverted on IDF business to Antwerp. Our wedding (Sue and mine) was arranged in Manchester mid-point of our intended stay in West Indies Dock, London and Zim had the sense to know that wasn't going to change. Then Sue was due to travel back to Israel with me - me still earning and on honeymoon - especially on arrival in Haifa - my then home-port. Sadly, after we had spent several weeks and the rest of my money on a hastily arranged train and bus tour of my native Ireland in February (we were lucky with the weather - although I really felt the cold after the warmth of the Eastern Med) we got back to Manchester to be informed that Zim had been frantically trying to contact me with another ship - which by then had been allocated to someone else. Completely broke I couldn't afford to wait around so I sought and found my first and only Greek ship. I think if that hiccup hadn't happened I would probably have stayed with Zim for the remainder of my sea-time and maybe even after our first child was born - because I might have managed a Haifa to UK regular run like I enjoyed in 1970/71 and later on bring baby with us after the obligatory 2 year wait (before indemnity insurance could be obtained). That wasn't to be and after one more ship in 1973 on the Europe - US/Mexico I gave up the sea for a career in industrial & business management ashore.

I have started to round-up former Zim & 4X** Israeli ship's officers (foreign) in a bid to arrange some sort of a get-together, maybe even in Israel. Anyone who is interested or knows eligible candidates please contact me or pass on my details to them.

Best wishes!

James


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## Peter Eccleson

James

Interesting tale. No contact with Les after we passed our Radar Certs together. He was a very studious and serious guy - not as 'happy go lucky' (pub heads) as the rest of us! Spoke very fondly of Zim and the cargo/pax vessels they operated at that time.
Good luck with your reunion.


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## Varley

Peter Eccleson said:


> Dave, I think you are quite correct. I recall my father saying "£25 a week at 17 years old! It was worth going to wireless college!" Perhaps Cunard was £200 in 1973.
> Anyone know the REOU rates of 1980? Can't remember what my final pay scale was then.
> 
> Dave, left TQMS in 1983 and joined Ships Electronic Svcs - closely followed by Vic Oram who I know you know.


I remember meeting your father I guess in those days he didn't have an easy passing. I must have met Vic too but we mainly dealt by 'phone. James O'Brian represented many under the Ships banner at GCBS and I saw him 'not infrequently' in that bearpit.


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## Varley

R651400 said:


> I left the claustrophobic but well paid direct employ confines of Blue Funnel for Niarchos in 1960 not only for the extra money but a new experience.
> A move to this day I'll never regret.
> As for employment by Mimco/IMR/Siemens at this time? No comment!!


Surely Claustrophobic was White Star?

(I apologise in advance)


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## Peter Eccleson

R651400 said:


> I left the claustrophobic but well paid direct employ confines of Blue Funnel for Niarchos in 1960 not only for the extra money but a new experience.
> A move to this day I'll never regret.
> As for employment by Mimco/IMR/Siemens at this time? No comment!!


But how much better was the pay? What were conditions like? Did you get leave any?


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## expats

I worked ashore (Grimsby) for Marconi between 2002/4 but went back to sea freelance early 2004...
I was initially on British ships and my initial daily rate was £15 per day...Freelance ROs were not popular with 'mates', to say the least, as they were all aware of my pay....
I went with a Liberian in 2005 at £18pd but, by the end of 2005, freelance was getting harder to find so I signed on with SeaLink... magic job!


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## hawkey01

Expats,

surely in 2004 the daily rate would have been more than £15 per day. That equates to about £5475 per year. 

Hawkey01


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## expats

hawkey01 said:


> Expats,
> 
> surely in 2004 the daily rate would have been more than £15 per day. That equates to about £5475 per year.
> 
> Hawkey01


Sorry.....1974...old age


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## Naytikos

*Yes !*


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## Peter Eccleson

expats said:


> Sorry.....1974...old age


....but did you get leave pay or were you only paid from leaving home to getting back home?


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## expats

Peter Eccleson said:


> ....but did you get leave pay or were you only paid from leaving home to getting back home?


4 days paid leave a month; I initially signed on a 3 month contract (at the daily rate). Quite useful as, on one ship, we were strikebound in 'Bring'em and Smash'em' for three weeks and I went home on pay..
The 'Foreign Flag' was home to home plus 4 days paid leave a month...


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## trotterdotpom

Peter Eccleson said:


> ....but did you get leave pay or were you only paid from leaving home to getting back home?


Freelance on British ships didn't last all that long. I did a few trips and 23 quid a day comes to mind. That was all up - got no leave pay. That's what was never mentioned when the "Telegraph" started bleating that ROs, who previously were paid about the same as a Catering Boy, were being paid more than the Mate.

Unfortunately, a lot of ROs didn't have the brains to keep their mouths shut and a lot of Mates got jealous without knowing the full story. The MNAOA got in on the act and the whole Freelance thing finished after a couple of years.

I also worked for Oldendorff - all gone to Liberian flag by then. Money was pretty good but it was paid as part ordinary pay and part a monthly lump sum in lieu of overtime. Leave was paid but only at the normal rate - ie the extra lump sum ... forget it. Conditions aboard were similar to any German ship.

Sailed on a German flag company called von Bargen. Good money, about 10 days per month leave, very basic conditions compared with British ships.

Swings and roundabouts.

John T


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## andysk

Peter Eccleson said:


> Hi Guys
> Quite a few R/O's went freelance throughout the 70's and 80's. what was the pay like? What were conditions like? Was it really worth the effort?
> Find it hard to recall my salary back then, but I know that I started with IMRC on £200 a month in 1971 which I thought was a fortune. Can't remember what I ended up on with Cunard in 1981 but it was a lot better than the £8500 a year ( inc London weighting allowance) working for P&O TQMS ashore as a radio superintendent!


I can't remember the exact figures, but what is still clear in the brain is the massive drop in salary, I think about 50%, when I left British & Commonwealth in September 1979 and joined IMRC in Peall Road in their service dept - a real problem as I was planning to get married !
However, it would have been far more difficult later if I'd stayed at sea any longer and got used to the salary and good life !

Somewhere a figure of £69 per month comes to mind when In started with B&C in Jan 1971.
(It's all a long time ago ...)


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## Bill Greig

I joined P & O General Cargo Division in January 1975 as 2 R/O, at the rate of £50 per week (£2500 p.a.) I thought I was minted after struggling by at college.
Bill


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## andysk

R651400 said:


> If this figure is correct Niarchos was paying a flat rate of £75 pm some ten years earlier!


Maybe it was £169, on thinking about it, the £69 was my 1st term grant from Croydon Council at Norwood Tech in 1968.


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## trotterdotpom

Marconi and IMR paid Board of Trade Rates. In '67/68 it was about GBP11 per week plus a payment for Sundays at Sea. We had to fill a form in for the Sundays. I had every Sunday at sea ... those Old Men would sign anything you put in front of them.

John T


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## Bill Greig

R651400 said:


> Are you sure Bill?
> 2nd R/O salary direct-employ was generally equated to 3rd Mate. Have just seen this for acting 3rd Mate on Bank Line for 1972.
> 
> http://www.shipsnostalgia.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=36713&d=1375663077


Yes,
pretty sure that figure was correct. I remember working out the £2,500 pa was approx 50 quid per week. I would like to say I have an old pay slip at home but they are long gone. Perhaps if some of my old college buddies could back this up - WillieG or Jim Anderson if they still log on to the site.
Cheers
Bill


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## Peter Eccleson

Still can't remember what my final salary was with Cunard in 1981..... Thought it was about £13000 but could be wrong. That's why I was looking for REOU rates which Cunard paid slightly better than.


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## JWJ1

Hi guy's, hope everyone is well.

I left MIMCO in 1959 on £32/month, to go freelance on a Hong Kong registered British vessel. I can't remember what the salary was exactly but its wasn't much more. There were 6 British officers and Chinese crew and we were tramping around the Pacific.

The vessel was an old WW2 freighter about 6000 tons and was very severely rat and cockroach infested. Many mornings I woke to find dead cockroaches on my back. 

Whilst sailing up from NZ to Japan we used to have shooting before breakfast each morning. The quartermaster would release rats from the traps onto the foredeck and we would fire at them from the bridge wing with a .22 rifle.

Visited some fabulous places but the conditions were awful.

In 1961 joined Israeli Zim Line on £75/month. I stayed until leaving the sea in 1964. The ships were fantastic, all very new with all the latest kit, and were immaculately clean. Conditions were excellent.

I was paid tax free in US dollars. When I went on leave, the company would phone me at home to ask if I was ready to return. If I was, they just left a plane ticket at EL Al's desk at Heathrow for me to pick up.

Met some wonderful people of many nationalities, enjoyed every minute of it. Never wore uniform, usually shorts and flip flops. Good food, good money, good friends, good life !

So for me yes, it was worth it. If I hadn't left the sea I would have had absolutely no reason to leave Zim.

Cheer's all.


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## Peter Eccleson

Seem to recall that Maersk/AP Moller paid well back in 70's


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## Manchester

R651400 said:


> Just been informed by a friend that Norwegians in 1965 were paying £2000 p.a.


Find that hard to believe!

In 1964 I was on £65 pm (tax free) with Norwegian Company Mowinckels compared to £39 pm with Marconi.


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## jimg0nxx

I am sure Marconi were paying a liitle more than £39 pm in 1964. I was on £38-17-6 when I started in Feb 1962 and there were annual increases in basic pay apart from the increments.


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## Manchester

jimg0nxx said:


> I am sure Marconi were paying a liitle more than £39 pm in 1964. I was on £38-17-6 when I started in Feb 1962 and there were annual increases in basic pay apart from the increments.


Possibly right Jim. I was on my first trip on the Norwegian ship for 4 and a half months (on my own) and so when I joined Marconi I still had 6 weeks to do as a junior - which turned into over 6 months but that is another story. But do remember the pay rates. However, I don't know what my Senior was earning.

An increase of 2/6p over 2 years for Marconi seems about right !!


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## Ian Beattie

Ah but guys remember there was 12.5% if you were on tankers and wasn't it another amount similar if you were East of Suez (12.5%) and dont forget before everything was amalgamated extra for weekends at sea at some princely sum which probably paid for a couple of duty free beers or maybe not
Cheers Ian


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## Varley

Ian Beattie said:


> Ah but guys remember there was 12.5% if you were on tankers and wasn't it another amount similar if you were East of Suez (12.5%) and dont forget before everything was amalgamated extra for weekends at sea at some princely sum which probably paid for a couple of duty free beers or maybe not
> Cheers Ian


Was it not only Sundays at sea?


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## Troppo

What leave ratio and salary were UK flag R/O's getting in the mid 80's?

In Oz, we were 6 weeks on, 6 weeks off on tankers in the 80's.


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## trotterdotpom

Varley said:


> Was it not only Sundays at sea?


There was also Half Day Saturdays but I think they gave you that just for being on articles - can't quite remember. It was different to Sundays at Sea though.

John T


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## James Clarke

(Bounce)


JWJ1 said:


> Hi guy's, hope everyone is well.
> 
> In 1961 joined Israeli Zim Line on £75/month. I stayed until leaving the sea in 1964. The ships were fantastic, all very new with all the latest kit, and were immaculately clean. Conditions were excellent.
> 
> I was paid tax free in US dollars. When I went on leave, the company would phone me at home to ask if I was ready to return. If I was, they just left a plane ticket at EL Al's desk at Heathrow for me to pick up.
> 
> Met some wonderful people of many nationalities, enjoyed every minute of it. Never wore uniform, usually shorts and flip flops. Good food, good money, good friends, good life !
> 
> So for me yes, it was worth it. If I hadn't left the sea I would have had absolutely no reason to leave Zim.
> 
> Cheer's all.


I agree with JWJ1 in that like him I would have stayed for the duration of my sea-career with Zim as R/O not just because of the excellent pay and modern ships and equipment, but also for the great sense of camararderie and doing something good (little David v Goliath). I was so lucky to have spent most of my time on the Haifa - London/North Europe run with the citrus harvest which meant that I was able to see my fiance every 6 weeks or so. In fact I arranged our wedding to take place mid-discharging in London's West Indies Dock so that our honeymoon would be in Israel - with my wife accompanying me aboard our ship back to Haifa. Unfortunately, the needs of the IDF caused the ship to be diverted at short notice and I had to pay-off in order to proceed with the wedding. I regretted that very much not least because I had only just paid off my student loan and didn't expect to have to pay for a hastily arranged alternative honeymoon and of course I would have been earning all the way to and in Israel.

Interestingly, unlike UK ships, we were paid a uniform allowance (vouchers) which I, like most, used it to pay for a made-to-measure suit at the outfitters in Haifa; we never wore uniform aboard and yet there were never problems with discipline that I knew of. Everyone knew their job and attended to it without the need for braid-and-bull****.

Like JWJ1's experience of shooting rats aboard his WW2 hulk we had regular target practice aboard ship - except our weapon was a machine gun and it was an important part of our anti-boarding drill which we conducted every trip in place of lifeboat drill. We were vulnerable whilst traversing 3,500 km of hostile Arab coastline from Haifa to Gibraltar and again on return voyage - every trip.

James


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## Ian Beattie

Hi David V and John T I seem to remember it was half a day for Saturdays and there was an arrangement on some vessels if you helped the mates when loading or discharging cargo on freighters - which did pay for a run ashore but it didn't go through the books. Even latterly in the early 70's there was payment if you had to work in port over the weekends which had to be endorsed by the captain but I haven't the foggiest notion what the cash was from this time and distance away.
Cheers Ian


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## johnball59

Hi
I went not exactly freelance but foreign flag late on in my career worked for Mimco for abt 11 years ended up I think on abt 12k per year with rad cert and elect cert. went foreign flag with wallems and was paid to start 1800 USD then ended up with BP and wham onto 1800 pounds finished in 1991 and think was prob on abt 23k with 2:1 leave much the same as with Mimco enjoyed every minute being foreign flag did 6 tax years so made a shed loada money


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## Ian Beattie

Johnball59
Bleedin Nora I'm drooling at that dough obviously I made a good mistake and went to GCHQ = the blessed Margaret tripled my dough may she rest in piece
or summatt. Laughing all the way to the bank - He He He
Cheers Ian


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## Peter Eccleson

Troppo said:


> What leave ratio and salary were UK flag R/O's getting in the mid 80's?
> 
> In Oz, we were 6 weeks on, 6 weeks off on tankers in the 80's.


Cunard passenger ships were 8 weeks on ad 4 weeks off on smaller Caribbean based vessels, with QE2 6 weeks on and 3 weeks off.


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## Ian Beattie

Peter I remember that Shell were doing 4 months on and 2 off for 3/0s 4/Es
and lower in the mid sixties I would think it would be a lot better for the senior grades
Cheers Ian


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## ex ro

HI was with GTZM in 1973 on about £140 per month went Freelance on FOC Greek tramp on £280 per month on six month contract with 10 percent bonus of total wages after 6 months no leave , no bar or booze except fo 2 beers a week on Tuesdays and Sundays Oceanspan 6 and Atalanta was on for 9 months sending and receiving QTCs in Greek via SVA and GKB certainly made me able to stand up for myself. After this was Freelance mainly UK flag and working for UK radio companies as my employer as they must have been very short between 1974 and 1976 was on £15 a day UK coastal Tanker GZZL Pointsman then on a JI Jacobs Bulker Rosewood /GOST this was a GTZM ship I was employed by Kelvin Hughes on a strictly "keep you mouth shut" basis I think i was on £23 a day on this. Then I went direct employ with Unicorn for a year crap money but a good laugh. I was then offered a choice of two jobs in April 77 either Sanko Line or Sealink I chose Sealink and stayed there for 16 years until I couldnt stomach Stena anymore took a drop of pay of £7k to work as an ETO then they were going to change the contracts so it was time to move on at my highest pay point was on £30 k a year.
Was freelance all it was cracked up to be ? In my opinion it was OK for a short time for a single man wanting to see the world and maybe save some dosh,stay too long and you ran the risk of turning into a Sea Gypsy, but if you were going to make a career of the job then direct employment or Radio Company was better, and the Ferries were the best of all IMHO
Really it was a matter of potluck and being in the right place at the right time, and also there was some bad feeling caused by the press running stories on how much the RO was earning on freelance ships compared to the mate


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## trotterdotpom

Yes, ex RO ... GBP 23 per day. See my post #22 re navigational sour grapes. The money was ok but, considering there was no leave or other entitlements, it wasn't that great. 

I did a couple with Kelvin Hughes ... Esso Mersey comes to mind. They seemed to be quite a good outfit, certainly not as hardnosed as Marconi.

On one IMR ship I was supposed to do cargo watches down the hold. They paid a couple of quid for about 8 hours (approximately). I wasn't particularly interested but was willing to do it until the Mate said he wouldbump up the hours and we would split the extra money. Thanks but no thanks, tight ar*e.

John T


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## rhodesian ridgeback

*Freelance Radio Officers*

In 1969 I left GTZM, my salary was 76 GBP pm (includes 12GBP North American bonus) and I was taxed with all the usual deductions even though I did not live in the UK.
After BOT radar in April 1970 joined a tanker owned by U.S.greeks and my salary was 195.00GBP pm no tax.We had I think 15 days vacation a year and contract was one year.
My second vessel under Liberian flag I earned 240GBP pm,multinational crew,fantastic ship ex P&O Trident tanker with the piano in the officers lounge!!!!much to the amusement of the "foreign " officers....
I think it was the Sunek that spoiled me when I realised what money could be made.GTZM always said that the foreign flag vessels sank,you never got paid,you worked with a bunch of people that you couldnt understand etc etc,My reply was.."I have been working with a bunch of Geordies, Scotsmen,Welshmen,Irishmen,Scouses,etc


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## expats

ex ro said:


> HI was with GTZM in 1973 on about £140 per month went Freelance on FOC Greek tramp on £280 per month on six month contract with 10 percent bonus of total wages after 6 months no leave , no bar or booze except fo 2 beers a week on Tuesdays and Sundays Oceanspan 6 and Atalanta was on for 9 months sending and receiving QTCs in Greek via SVA and GKB certainly made me able to stand up for myself. After this was Freelance mainly UK flag and working for UK radio companies as my employer as they must have been very short between 1974 and 1976 was on £15 a day UK coastal Tanker GZZL Pointsman then on a JI Jacobs Bulker Rosewood /GOST this was a GTZM ship I was employed by Kelvin Hughes on a strictly "keep you mouth shut" basis I think i was on £23 a day on this. Then I went direct employ with Unicorn for a year crap money but a good laugh. I was then offered a choice of two jobs in April 77 either Sanko Line or Sealink I chose Sealink and stayed there for 16 years until I couldnt stomach Stena anymore took a drop of pay of £7k to work as an ETO then they were going to change the contracts so it was time to move on at my highest pay point was on £30 k a year.
> Was freelance all it was cracked up to be ? In my opinion it was OK for a short time for a single man wanting to see the world and maybe save some dosh,stay too long and you ran the risk of turning into a Sea Gypsy, but if you were going to make a career of the job then direct employment or Radio Company was better, and the Ferries were the best of all IMHO
> Really it was a matter of potluck and being in the right place at the right time, and also there was some bad feeling caused by the press running stories on how much the RO was earning on freelance ships compared to the mate


Looks like we followed each other about

1974 and 1976 was on £15 a day UK coastal Tanker GZZL Pointsman ..... *I was on the 'Pointsman' between August- December 1974 
*
April 77 I chose Sealink and stayed there for 16 years......*I joined Sealink 1975 and stayed 7 years (One of the best jobs ever!).... *


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## Ian Beattie

£39 sounds about right for 65 too but there was a pay rise later that year to around £48 I think but it is for sure a long time ago and memory does play tricks.
Cheers Ian


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## hawkey01

Looking through old papers I came across my contract with Goulandris. Copy attached and also the necessary Liberian License.
You will see I was signed on at £125 per month in 1968. I have to admit that after a couple of trips around Europe and DD in Piraeus this was followed by a trip to the PG of course then via the Cape. By the time I was back near UK I was slightly stir crazy and decided - as in Europe - I would resign. They then offered me £145 per month if I stayed but I still went. Probably a bad move but then it seemed a good idea. My entertainment in the PG was an evening on one of the large tugs - UK crew - who gave me books etc. this was the exciting port of Das Island. The pilot arranged this for me. The crew on my ship were A1 but we were then told that we were going on some obscure run - something like PG to US so I thought its time to get out.

Hawkey01


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## gordon bryson

In 1971 I joined Marconi and was paid £84.45 a month as a junior. That went up to £116 when I was on my own.
My last 2 years at sea I was freelance with Sanko, we were paid in U.S. dollars but it was about £23 a day but if you stayed on your ship beyond your 5 month contract on a tanker (8 month on cargo) your money increased to about £29 a day or £200 a week tax free.(That was 1978-80)
The conditions were excellent and we were paid either 2 or 5 days leave for every month worked - that detail I'm not sure about.
All in all I did freelancing for Sanko, U.M.E. (united marine electronics ltd) and Redifon, they all paid well, never any hassles and with Sanko when travelling to and from ships my UK train travel was always first class, probably because in the Rotterdam office they didn't worry about it as long as the expenses balanced.


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## CrazySparks

I freelanced with the Italians in about 1980 - 900 pounds per month and tax free the way I worked it. I did a Dutch cargo vessel, Italian supertanker, Italian OBO, Hong Kong registered bulk carrier, reefers and so on. Without doubt, going freelance was a great move financially. Conditions were excellent and the food was better than on British ships. There was also a lot less BS - no uniforms with the Italians for instance. By the end though - I did my last trip in 86 - cabin service was reduced and pay had not risen! I had a great time and earned good money but it was time to go!


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## Naytikos

In my experience freelance R/Os were always happy to exchange information about companies where jobs were available. Sanko, as mentioned by Gordon, and Universe Tankships (Ludwig) were often mentioned as places to go if one wanted a change from greek food.
The captain of a Ludwig tanker I met in Fos tried his best to persuade me to cross the dock and join his ship, saying he would send his present R/O to the New York office for re-assignment the next day.

Something not quite right about this, I thought, and my wife didn't want to give up her cook's job on our existing ship anyway, so that was that. But the money on offer was 25% over what I was getting already!


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## trotterdotpom

Naytikos said:


> In my experience freelance R/Os were always happy to exchange information about companies where jobs were available. Sanko, as mentioned by Gordon, and Universe Tankships (Ludwig) were often mentioned as places to go if one wanted a change from greek food.
> The captain of a Ludwig tanker I met in Fos tried his best to persuade me to cross the dock and join his ship, saying he would send his present R/O to the New York office for re-assignment the next day.
> 
> Something not quite right about this, I thought, and my wife didn't want to give up her cook's job on our existing ship anyway, so that was that. But the money on offer was 25% over what I was getting already!


He wasn't called Bill D, was he?

John T


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## Naytikos

OK John, I'll bite: I don't actually remember his name, but that doesn't sound familiar.

I think I'm missing something here.....?


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## Roger Bentley

*M'mm*



trotterdotpom said:


> He wasn't called Bill D, was he?
> 
> John T


John, Sounded like him did'nt it! Cheers Roger


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## chadburn

Naytikos said:


> OK John, I'll bite: I don't actually remember his name, but that doesn't sound familiar.
> 
> I think I'm missing something here.....?


Working under another name on this Site "he" informed us all that in the past that "he" communicated with his Head Office and had a Chief Engineer transferred when "he" had a disagreement with him which sounds about right and in line with John T's thinking, possibly. It seems this nasty habit of complaining about people who disagree with him has not left him even in todays world.(*))


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## Quiney

I started with IMRC in the spring of 1974 and from memory my first months salary was £91.


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## Varley

About in line with my memory of first trip in 1971. GBP 82-00/month maybe 84.


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## Tom Foote

Went freelance in 1958 with Rythemnis & Kulukundis. Liberian flag "Cassiopeia" 5LJC ex "Wembley Hill" Round the world tramping voyage at £75 per month. Greek crew


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## hawkey01

Big money in 1958 Tom. £900 a year a Kings Ransom. 

Hawkey01


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## Ian Beattie

Nevertheless £900 a year thats nearly £20 a week that was MEGA money at that time WOW

___________________

iseeimbutineceeim bass


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## Ron Stringer

hawkey01 said:


> Big money in 1958 Tom. £900 a year a Kings Ransom.
> 
> Hawkey01


Ease off a bit, there. In 1959 I was earning more than that as a labourer in a sausage and pie factory. Mind you, I was working a 72-hour week, 5s 3d/hour on nights (time-and-a-half at 4s 6d/hour normal time)! And I had to provide my own accommodation and food. But I did get holiday pay. Took a pay cut in 1960 of more than 50% to go to sea as an R/O at £36 *a month*.


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## Ian Beattie

I remenber a lad on an Inchcape Bulker/Tanker in Rotterdam about 68 and he was pleading with me to join - but maybe the money was good but American style steel everywhere even your bunk -- ugh I would have to wear carpet slippers to go to the bog -- no thank you -- and at the time I was on a Bank boat and it was paradise compared to that vessel - so I ventureds into the copra trade with Andrew Weir Fantastico

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useeimbutunoseeim Bass


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## Ian Beattie

Ref #74 Me too but I didn't have that option but it was a very good trip and places that I hadn't heard of I saw first hand and we killed all the copra bugs in the N Atlantic going on a rhum line and hatches open - there was a really good crowd and I would do it again -- but I wouldn't mind 2 years on the west and east coasts of South America either.

_____________

useeimbutunoseeim Bass


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## Ian Beattie

I did say I didn't have that option however, having chatted to a rather nice Brazilian lady a couple of months ago you will need double pay and probably more as its is seriously expensive out there now and she opened my eyes to the fact that everyone is on the "take" which endemic now and she said the most depressing thing is that the children have nothing to look forward to - like you I remember the area from many moons ago but according to what she said every govt says they will change but then big bribes say no you wont and it is just a repeating circle of no change and getting worse. No doubt the returning fans from the footie in 2014 will have tales to tell, the corrupt police force doesn't help matters either, what used to be paradise somehow has altered, but if you see a photo of the beach etc you can still dream.

_____________

useeimbutunoseeim Bass


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## Ian Beattie

You may be right however I took the plunge and married the next year and in 70 sailed on the weather boats in the N. Atlantic for about 4 and a half then GCHQ thereafter did OK 'cos retired at 52 -- but if my fingers and feet would work like they used to ME -- COPACOBANA tout sweet - and the touter the better
__________________

useeimbutunoseeim Bass


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## charles henry

When I came to Canada in the 70's was hired as RO by the Quebec Steamship company in Montreal. (They had three ships). My salary was $500 per month.
The radar on my ship (The Cheticamp) had been recovered from Noah's Arc but I managed to keep it working and two months later was given a raise of $50 for my radar efforts.
Very different from the kind of treatment received in the UK.

No wonder I became a Canook

Chas


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## BobClay

I was a fireman for 2 years from 1965 to 1967, sailing mainly on Shell Tankers. I then did 2.5 years at Leith Nautical to get a PMG 2nd, BOT radar and C & G Techs certificate (with the Radio Hams ticket thrown in for a laugh.) I then got a job with Marconi in 1970 and found I was on slightly less money than when I had been a fireman nearly three years earlier.
So yes, going freelance was by far and away a vast improvement and when I did go direct employ in 1976 I got a comparable wage with other officers, due in no small part I am convinced to the RO shortage that had bought about the freelance situation.
So yes, freelance was definitely a good thing.


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## tony kemp

*Freelancing*

Freelancing - Early sixties, doubled my salary - tax free and voyages of choice. First free lance job - Brand new motor yacht, sea trials and maiden voyage for Greek ship owner. Sailing only at week ends. Five days of sightseeing and sunning myself. (5MJM) Couldn't ask for better. Later offshore in the most challenging oilfield environment, at the cutting edge of technology.(KCUH) No expenses spared. A truly rewarding career and would do it all again if I had my time over. 
Tony


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## david.hopcroft

We used to work a pipe layer in the southern North Sea whose RO always gave his call sign as 'a naughty word spelled backwards' - similar to yours Tony. If the RO on WF9654 was hourly paid then he must have been on to a fortune. Always answered whenever we called with frequent traffic. Rumour had it he worked for Mr Onassis in the summer.

David
+


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## tony kemp

He most certainly was. The pipe layers in the early seventies were Brown and Root and McDermott. KCUF was BAR324 KCUG was BAR323 and KCUH was BAR297 as far as I can remember. We had Jet barges with similar call signs to what you have just quoted. I was the Tech and worked on several barges year round, also winter repairs in Rotterdam or Hamburg. We pioneered SITOR being among the first vessels to be fitted. Also set up sub frequency private channels (VFT) with GCC all based on SSB. It was a 24 Hour watch keeping, back to back 12 hour shifts. Hence the small fortune you mentioned. The LB Meadows was the barge fitted with Mari-sat. I usually worked in Ekofisk but did a season in the Gulf of Mexico. Happy Days. Went on to spend twenty one years in Saudi where the renumeration, though generous, did not match the North Sea in those days. The divers struck it rich. We were way down the totem pole by comparison. I would often spare a thought for you boys on the beach. How things have changed! - Tony


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## david.hopcroft

Yes Tony, they certainly have. It was always said that Brown & Roots & J Ray McDermotts didn't pay you to sleep on the barges. 

I was at GKZ and remember the PW sitor. It used a Racal tape store with about a mile of magnetic tape on a continuous loop inside the door which stored any missed characters thru QRM or whatever and then sent it out the signal locked on again - or at least that was the theory. No-one told the staff at Yarmouth that they shouldn't prepare 5-unit tapes on their teleprinter because it used to go into the magnetic store at GKZ and fill it up. Those offshore could never understand why they got two of everything at first !!!

WF9654 was the Hugh W Gordon and I think the RO was called Francis Hayward - absolutely not Frank !! I remember we made many calls to Houston to Mr Gordon !! I thought the 279 was HOZO, the 265/KCUF, and the Hercules/WK5301, but I can't remember the LB Meaders call sign.

Different times, and not all that long ago. The Post Office as it was then didn't match Freelance money, but the overtime because of the much increased traffic was very welcome !! 

David
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