# First ships to transport beer?



## dwhite44 (Oct 8, 2016)

Hi, 

I'm wondering if anyone knows the names of famous ships that used to transport beer, and where I could find more information about these ships?

This is for a project I'm doing at uni about craft beer (Pint)

Thanks, 

David


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## tom roberts (May 4, 2008)

Either I am thick or your article is true either way check out the history of the Guinness boats.


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## dwhite44 (Oct 8, 2016)

tom roberts said:


> Either I am thick or your article is true either way check out the history of the Guinness boats.


Both it would seem (Applause)


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## John Rogers (May 11, 2004)

You are also a very rude student, you will not get answers with your attitude.


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## Dartskipper (Jan 16, 2015)

I don't know if lager qualifies, but around 30 or 40 years ago a coaster would unload barrels of Danish brewed Carlsberg lager at Topsham on the River Exe on a regular service.


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## John Dryden (Sep 26, 2009)

Can't help you myself but I'm fairly certain you will get some information from the site members around the world.
Good luck and I shall watch this thread with interest...being a drinking man!(certainly a finer cargo than crude oil)


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## trotterdotpom (Apr 29, 2005)

There are some photos of Guinness boats in the SN gallery. See "Miranda Guinness" and "Lady Gwendolin". 

John T


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## Derek Roger (Feb 19, 2005)

The Ark ; but that was wine.


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## JoeQ (Jan 8, 2009)

The Lady Gwendolen was a ship used to transport Guinness from Dublin to Liverpool, she was involved in a collision in the Mersey in November 1961. The report can be found here:

http://www.plimsoll.org/images/89039_tcm4-332196.pdf


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## TOM ALEXANDER (Dec 24, 2008)

Beer has been produced for millenia as can be seen at:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_beer

There were all sorts of ships trading in the Indian Ocean, the Red Sea and the Mediteranean at the time, but unfortunately we don't know the names so can't give a specific answer to your question. More recently (1838 or so) the Brits were shipping India Pale Ale to India via the East India Company and others to support the military in India. Perhaps a little more research on your part might produce some ships' names from that era. Good Luck. (Pint)


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## Somerton (Oct 24, 2008)

The Guiness ships that I can remember are , the Clarecastle ,the Lady Patricia , the Lady Gwendolen . I think there was also a sister ship to the Clarecastle . That name I do not remember . They all carried Guiness from Dublin to Liverpool . The Clarecastle was later sold to Arthur S Davidson coal importers in Belffast . 
Alex C .


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## duquesa (Aug 31, 2006)

*First shipsto transport beer*

Quote: I think there was also a sister ship to the Clarecastle 

"Carrowdore" Sailed on her under Davidson management.


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## chadburn (Jun 2, 2008)

Like the move to Container ships Guinness started to ship in bulk containers certainly to the African region, Guinness out and the dreaded weed back courtesy of the unknowing E.D. Lines.


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## woodend (Nov 23, 2009)

In the late 50's, early 60's there were the three 'special' Guiness ships: T5HE LADY GWENDOLEN, THE LADY GRANIA and the s.s. GUINESS. Well remember the cry going round the docks: 'the Guiness bo9ats in!'


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## Dickyboy (May 18, 2009)

Mew Langdon, an Isle of Wight brewer, had their own vessel, the "XXXX" Which carried its products across the Solent to Portsmouth. I think the XXXX went out of service in the 1950s, when ferries became larger and more economical.


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## vinnie05 (Apr 25, 2009)

Charles Hill and sons of Bristol, I think, built the "Miranda Guiness" in 1976 for the transporting of the "black stuff". Brings back a few memories as I worked on some of the drawings at a Tyneside company which was sub-contracted to produce the construction drawings for the vessel.


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## Dartskipper (Jan 16, 2015)

They used to transport sherry across the bar in schooners...(Jester)


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## Lurch (Jul 29, 2011)

Swire were the early shippers to Australia.


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## Duncan112 (Dec 28, 2006)

This is a wonderful book on the carriage of beer by sea - amongst other things

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Hops-Glory-Pete-Brown/dp/0330511866


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## trotterdotpom (Apr 29, 2005)

Dartskipper said:


> They used to transport sherry across the bar in schooners...(Jester)


Like it(Applause)(Applause).

Harvey's (of Bristol Cream fame) used to ship sherry from Spain to Bristol where it was blended to their liking. Think it came in barrels though. Maybe they still do.

Let's hope nothing untoward happened to the empty barrels on the return trip - who'd trust those Jolly Tars in the Llandoger Trow, Jim lad?

John T


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## John Dryden (Sep 26, 2009)

It,s looking good thanks to Dicky...be out you wine and sherry mongers and stick to the ale.


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## Dartskipper (Jan 16, 2015)

#21.

The old Harveys bottling plant in old Bristol was converted into a museum with a fine restaurant. Bottling of the sherries (imported in cask as John says,) was then done out at the modern bottling plant at Whitchurch that was originally built to bottle Whiteways fruit wines and other brands of fortified wines and British Sherries.

More valuable than all the Bristol Cream and Amontillados was a huge stack of Premier Cru Pauillac claret bottled at Chateau LaTour, and cases of Chateau Mouton Rothschild in the stores they showed us when I visited in the early 1990's.

Ale is OK when you're thirsty, but with a medium rare rump steak, or a superb prime rib, only a fine claret will do!


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## John Dryden (Sep 26, 2009)

Interesting as your information is Dartskipper I do believe the drink in question is in fact beer.


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## trotterdotpom (Apr 29, 2005)

dwhite44 said:


> Hi,
> 
> I'm wondering if anyone knows the names of famous ships that used to transport beer, and where I could find more information about these ships?
> 
> ...


I thought your question had been answered but on checking your profile, I found you are actually interested in the transport of beer to India.

I googled India Pale Ale and it turns out that it was transported in East India Company ships in the 18th century. Unfortunately, no ship names are mentioned. Maybe you could investigate the East India Company.

Why not forget about that "craft beer", or, as I like to call it, "home brew" and have an icy cold VB?

Welcome to SN, DW. Are you sure I can't tempt you with a hefty Oloroso?

John T


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## Dartskipper (Jan 16, 2015)

John Dryden said:


> Interesting as your information is Dartskipper I do believe the drink in question is in fact beer.


Quite so John, but as you well know, any thread launched on SN has a tendency to stray from the intended course as soon as the discussion clears the buoyed channel.(Jester)


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## jmbrent (Feb 3, 2010)

I think the vessel that brought beer to the Tyne was called M.V.Lochside which was a small coaster in the 50's. Micky


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## Irvingman (Jan 29, 2006)

We used to carry Harp Lager in 500gallon containers from Dundalk to Castletown in the the Isle of Man. Customs and Excise used to come on board and draw off a pint from each of the 12 containers to check the contents and then to our horror....pour all 12 pints overboard 

http://www.shipsnostalgia.com/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/57787/title/schiestroom/cat/500


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## septiclecky (Mar 11, 2009)

trotterdotpom said:


> I thought your question had been answered but on checking your profile, I found you are actually interested in the transport of beer to India.
> 
> I googled India Pale Ale and it turns out that it was transported in East India Company ships in the 18th century. Unfortunately, no ship names are mentioned. Maybe you could investigate the East India Company.
> 
> ...


I read somewhere about IPA that it had it's first fermentation here in the UK and whilst on the journey to India a second fermantation process took place.


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## beedeesea (Feb 28, 2006)

Irvingman said:


> We used to carry Harp Lager in 500gallon containers from Dundalk to Castletown in the the Isle of Man. Customs and Excise used to come on board and draw off a pint from each of the 12 containers to check the contents and then to our horror....pour all 12 pints overboard
> 
> http://www.shipsnostalgia.com/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/57787/title/schiestroom/cat/500


Nice pic and great description of life on board. Thanks Irvingman.

Brian


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## Ron Stringer (Mar 15, 2005)

Irvingman said:


> We used to carry Harp Lager in 500gallon containers from Dundalk to Castletown in the the Isle of Man. Customs and Excise used to come on board and draw off a pint from each of the 12 containers to check the contents and then to our horror....pour all 12 pints overboard


Very wise of them but not too considerate of the environment - think of the poor fish and crustaceans that had to put up with that stuff!


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## trotterdotpom (Apr 29, 2005)

Is that the origin of the phrase "to drink like a fish"?

John T


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## chadburn (Jun 2, 2008)

Ron Stringer said:


> Very wise of them but not too considerate of the environment - think of the poor fish and crustaceans that had to put up with that stuff!


They will be immune after crawling through this lot.


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## Irvingman (Jan 29, 2006)

beedeesea said:


> Nice pic and great description of life on board. Thanks Irvingman.
> 
> Brian


Glad you enjoyed it, I certainly did at the time (Thumb)
John


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## Irvingman (Jan 29, 2006)

Ron Stringer said:


> Very wise of them but not too considerate of the environment - think of the poor fish and crustaceans that had to put up with that stuff!


As a 16 year old on £9 a week (1972) I felt that I could put it to better use (Jester)
I did refine my tastes in later years, but you have to start somewhere[=P]
John


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## arthur elletson (Aug 26, 2013)

sailed on the byland abbey (A.H.L.) in 1966 from goole to Copenhagen carried cases of Carlsberg, sailed on the angelo (wilsons ex. byland abbey ) in 1969 to Copenhagen she carried Carlsberg in tanks .sailed on the norwave in the sixties she carried heiniken larger in road tankers.


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## arthur elletson (Aug 26, 2013)

(Pint)when on the potosi in 1969 we carried guiness and grants whisky to Bahamas ,Bermuda and the west coast of s/America


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## RFARoy (Oct 4, 2009)

dwhite44 said:


> Hi,
> 
> I'm wondering if anyone knows the names of famous ships that used to transport beer, and where I could find more information about these ships?
> 
> ...


Hi David,

You could try the London Docklands Museum, the Museum of London and the PLA (Port of London Authority) archives who may have historical records available.

Have you contacted any of the major brewers as they must still have records of shipments and sales transported by sea.

You could also try HM Customs & Excise who had a huge bonded warehouse in the "London Docks" that held wines and spirits in bonded storage, in vast underground vaults filled with thousands of barrels of sherry, port, madeira and spirits with large vats of wine slowly maturing. I suspect they also stored barrels of beer for trans-shipment as well.

As a kid I lived above a shop on the corner of Dock Street, East Smithfield and the Highway, right opposite to the "Blue Anchor", a pub that some may remember, with the view of the dock wall from the front door and the musty, sour aroma of stale wine mixed with the sharp smell of pure alcohol permeating the whole area, which emanated from the warehouse wall will always be with me for the rest of my life. 

In addition the smell of cloves, cinnamon, all spice, anise etc, but, above all the smell of pepper from the spice mills and warehouses clustered around the London Docks area is also part of my childhood as the extract fans from the mill rooms vented at pavement level, so sore eyes and sneezing was a constant problem. Spice and pepper millers seldom saw old age, there was no health, safety and environmental protection for them.

You should also look at Warwick University's Modern Records Centre website and look at the Brewers' Society Records.

I hope this gives you some other avenues to pursue in your quest for information. 

Regards, RFARoy


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## holland25 (Nov 21, 2007)

I sailed with Blue Funnel in the late 50s and part of my job was to survey damaged cargo, a lot of which was bottled Guinness,I think it was more broached than damaged.It was rumoured that it had special properties of fertility, and was much prized by people from the sub continent.


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## chadburn (Jun 2, 2008)

There was one Stout that was given for "medical" purposes which had a blue label, not sure if it was Guinness or another brew?


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## trotterdotpom (Apr 29, 2005)

Years ago I worked in a geriatric hospital in Bristol and they had bottles of Mackeson for the patients. Can't remember the colour of the label.

John T

PS Just Googled it and it was red and white.


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## Ron Stringer (Mar 15, 2005)

Yes, JT, Mackeson's Milk Stout it was. My wife tells me that as a nurse, they gave it out to patients on the orthopaedic wards in the 1950s/60s. When she was a midwife in the 1970s/80s they were still giving it out on the post-natal wards to the Mums.


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## TonyAllen (Aug 6, 2008)

1960 sailed on the catalina star .left liverpool afternoon tide headed for glasgow
started loading after dark .with only about a dozen dockers ??who arrived with the wagons .and worked their ******** off for hours and secured the middle hatches.before the regular guys turned too, sailed on the next tide .was only in the mid atlantic found out the hatch was full of scotch .pints and half pints bottled .seemed to appear now and then ???? never like scotch.when we arrived in frisco we all had our cabins turned over by customs and one found an empty half pint under the mattress of a steward .hauld before the mate and a customs officer ,he simply said would he be so stupid to hide knowing that we were going to be searched .he said he thought the customs man had planted it there .
it was left at that as nothing could be proved .on the way back home it turned out it was the south african baker who put it there .because had forgotten he had it in the bakehouse and stuffed it in the first cabin down the alleyway.anyway the next morning he turns too with a rather large black eye .and simply said he had fell getting out of the shower????/ cheers


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## duquesa (Aug 31, 2006)

*First shipsto transport beer*

Quote: Mackeson's Milk Stout it was.

Eddie Mackeson died this year in Bristol. The company was taken over ages ago. Last I heard it was still available here and there.


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## metallicgreen (Jan 29, 2007)

#39, This was West Africa for sure and the slogan was 'There's a baby in every bottle'


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## trotterdotpom (Apr 29, 2005)

I visited the Guinness place in Dublin last year and asked one of the guides about those West African beliefs. He said: "We choose not to promote those benefits these days." They had prints of old posters for sale but, unfortunately, none from the White Man's Grave.

John T


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