# Funnel Markings



## billblow

I am collecting and recording fishing company funnel markings before they get forgotten and before those who can remember them slip their moorings. I have a good number for the Humber ports but am thin on other ports. Perhaps SN members could tell me if their ports are well recorded and in their local libraries etc. If not could SN members pass on to me information they remember with as much detail as possible added ( name of company colours , broad band, narrow band 5 or 6 pointed star etc). Many of the fishing companies disappeared just prior to universal colour photography so that many trawler photo's show funnel markings but in black and white. There are on this site and else where many such photo's of vessels where this information could be provided by those who know.

Bill Blow


----------



## Peter4447

Hi Bill

The very well-known series of Ian Allan ABC book of ships from the 50's and 60's did an ABC of British Trawlers, which lists the trawlers under their companies and would possibly be invaluable in your search.

Unfortunately I do not have a copy but perhaps a member has one in his collection and could advise you if it contains details of the funnel colours, as it does in the other books in the series.

The books sometimes appear on sale in E Bay etc.

Regards
Peter4447


----------



## aavh

I have a 1963 copy and it does describe some funnel markings. I will forward these to you soon.

Andy


----------



## billblow

Andy

Great just the sort of thing I am after.

Bill


----------



## aavh

Here are the first couple
*Ardrossan Trawling Co Ltd Glasgow*
House flag over blue disc on yellow between maroon base and black top.
House flag I think was blue rectangle with red P.
*Atlas Steam fishing Co Ltd Grimsby*
White A on yellow over blue bands bordered by white rings on black
*Alfred Bannister Ltd Grimsby*
House flag on red with black top
*Boston Deep Sea Fisheries Ltd*
Red with or without black top.
*Boyd Line Ltd Hull*
White with black top and two dark red bands
*West Dock Steam Fishing Co Ltd Hull*
Black with broad red band
*Brandon Fishing Co Ltd Lowestoft*
Black
*William Carnie Ltd Granton*
White C on white edged black disc on grey
*F E Catchpole ( Star Drift Fishing) Co Ltd Lowestoft*
House flag (yellow star on blue ground) on yellow with black top
*Cevic Steam Fishing Co Ltd Fleetwood*
Black with two red bands
*Claridge Trawlers Ltd Lowestoft*
House flag ( Blue C on white background) on blue with black top
*Consolidated Fisheries Grimsby*
Yellow and red crown on white band between grey and black top
*Joseph Craig ( Craig Stores ) Aberdeen*
Black with broad blue band between two narrow aluminium bands
*Crampin Steam Fishing Co Ltd Grimsby*
Yellow C on blue band between yellow and black top
*Joe Croan Ltd Granton*
JC Monogram in green on white disc on red band between two narrow white bands on black

will send more later


----------



## gil mayes

Bill
A very interesting project. I have quite a few details of trawling company funnel markings dating from the late 1940s and I compiled the last Ian Allan combined edition of "British Coastal Ships, Tugs & Trawlers" back in 1974. If your knowledge of the trawling companies is deep then I think a much easier approach would be to specify which company details you require on a port by port basis, otherwise there is bound to be a lot of repetition.
Gil.


----------



## billblow

Gil
You are so right that really is the best way to do it. I could do that now for the Humber ports ( for which I have a couple of 100's with subsiduaries) I have on the other hand only something like 70 for the rest of the country. As I said I only want them to be recorded somewhere before all knowledge goes to the grave but I would like to pull them together and compile as large a data base as possible that can be stored all together in libraries and "Heritage Centres" etc. I have a "Paint" pro-forma that I colour in so they are all in the same format. Please keep them coming in for now (but leaving out the Humber ports) and I will fine tune it if I find too much duplication. Thank you
Bill


----------



## mattarosa

gil mayes said:


> Bill
> A very interesting project. I have quite a few details of trawling company funnel markings dating from the late 1940s and I compiled the last Ian Allan combined edition of "British Coastal Ships, Tugs & Trawlers" back in 1974. If your knowledge of the trawling companies is deep then I think a much easier approach would be to specify which company details you require on a port by port basis, otherwise there is bound to be a lot of repetition.
> Gil.



Hi Gil
I collect books about trawlers and the fishing industry. I have at least one edition, can't tell you which because I have not yet been able to unpack all my books since moving nearly a year ago (sad but true) but I suppose when I saw others for sale, I just mentally noted that I already had the book. 

Is there one book, which was later revised and corrected? or was it a different edition (with different info/pictures) each time? Should a collector aim to get every edition (or as many as humanly possible).

Hope you don't mind me asking. And hope Bill does not mind me sort of hi-jacking his topic in order to do so. Bill - I have seen some postcards of funnels on ebay from time to time. I don't have any myself, maybe you do or maybe someone here does.

Hilary


----------



## tenterden

billblow i have some post cards with the funnell and flag markings, i will post them soon -jerry (tenterden)


----------



## gil mayes

Hello Hilary
The Ian Allan ABC series (merchant ships) covered many years and was supposed to be a statement of the companies and vessels operating at the date of publication. In the ABC series "British Trawlers" there were three small editions, 1957, 1958, 1963 and then trawlers were incorporated in "British Coastal Ships, Tugs & Trawlers", 1972 and 1974. In the 1950s and early 1960s the ABC series of railway, bus and shipping books was very popular but in the mid 1960s interest had started to decline. All the books give company, funnel marking, hull colour and units(with tonnage, dimensions and propulsion type) in the fleet all with PRNs.
There is a big overlap in trawler funnel markings bearing in mind that the big companies operated vessels from several ports(often through subsidiaries) with a common marking. In my funnel marking notes of over 50 years (mainly coasters) I have always included markings specific to an individual ship within the owing company because markings do vary. 
I have yet to check, but I do know that Louis Loughran of the World Ship Society, the Society custodian of the "Flags & Funnel records", does have some trawler firm markings in his records.
Gil.


----------



## aavh

Some more minus Hull + Grimsby
*Dalby Steam fishing Co Ltd Fleetwood*
Black
*Thomas L Devlin Granton*
Yellow D on blue disc on yellow with black top
*Don Fishing Co Ltd Aberdeen*
Houseflag on red with black top
*Aberdeen Motor Trawlers Ltd*
House flag ( white with black AMT in Black circle) on red with black top
*East Anglian Ice & Cold Storage Co Ltd Lowestoft*
Red Cockerel on blue with narrow black top
*Forward Steam Fishing Co Ltd Aberdeen*
Black with house flag
*Friarage Steam fishing Co Ltd ( J Graham & Sons )Hartlepool*
Black with red + or black and red +or black flag seperate.
more to come
Andy


----------



## mattarosa

gil mayes said:


> Hello Hilary
> The Ian Allan ABC series (merchant ships) covered many years and was supposed to be a statement of the companies and vessels operating at the date of publication. In the ABC series "British Trawlers" there were three small editions, 1957, 1958, 1963 and then trawlers were incorporated in "British Coastal Ships, Tugs & Trawlers", 1972 and 1974. In the 1950s and early 1960s the ABC series of railway, bus and shipping books was very popular but in the mid 1960s interest had started to decline. All the books give company, funnel marking, hull colour and units(with tonnage, dimensions and propulsion type) in the fleet all with PRNs.
> There is a big overlap in trawler funnel markings bearing in mind that the big companies operated vessels from several ports(often through subsidiaries) with a common marking. In my funnel marking notes of over 50 years (mainly coasters) I have always included markings specific to an individual ship within the owing company because markings do vary.
> I have yet to check, but I do know that Louis Loughran of the World Ship Society, the Society custodian of the "Flags & Funnel records", does have some trawler firm markings in his records.
> Gil.


Hi Gil
Thanks very much for this comprehensive information. Obviously my collection still has quite a few gaps!
Hilary


----------



## Peter4447

Gents

If you Goole search LLoyds Flags and Funnels it will bring up the American www.mysticseaport site. This will give you access to the complete 1912 edition of the Lloyds flags and Funnels book.

There are several British Trawler Houseflags and funnels shown but you will have to search the pages individually to bring them up - with over a hundred pages and a thousand companies shown it will be a long search but I am sure will be worth it for your research in the end!

Peter4447(Thumb)

PS - For anyone interested in flags and funnels this is an excellent reference work which I highly recommend.


----------



## mattarosa

mattarosa said:


> Hi Gil
> Thanks very much for this comprehensive information. Obviously my collection still has quite a few gaps!
> Hilary


P.S. have dug out my much-in-need-of-updating booklist and find I actually have three in this series, one Le Fleming, one Ridley Chesterton and one Gilbert Mayes, whoever he is  

Hilary


----------



## billblow

Hi all
Here are 3 Grimsby companies from late 40's I require
1/Wembley S.F.Co Ltd
2/Rushcliffe Trawlers Ltd.
3/ H.& F.D. Robinson (which I have only in black/white)
And a general question. The Hull Ice Co Ltd who seemed to hold sway over many of the requisitioned trawlers when they came back into service and had many of the Consol and Northern trawlers whilst re-registered at Grimsby for a while. What would the funnel markings be on them?
Bill


----------



## billblow

Peter4447
I have collected from the LLoyds collection you mention, thank you and we have in Grimsby Library a nice collection of turn of the century (about 7 years before the LLoyds list) coloured plates from the Olsen Company of Almanack fame. They do in some cases vary between the two where the company is on both so I record both.
The Library did have someones previous hard worked collection but would you believe it they have "miss laid" it.
Thanks for your kind help, we have now pushed the numbers up to well over 400 companies, so I do hope members can keep them coming.
Bill


----------



## billblow

CLOVA A 417
There is on this site a colour pic of the Aberdeen trawler Clova posted by japottinger which shows the funnel marking all be it indinstinctly for what I think is the Clova Fishing Co Ltd Aberdeen, I know it's not later when I have it for BUT. Can any one tell me what is in the 3 segments of the flag on the funnel?
Bill Blow


----------



## Steve Woodward

Try this website : http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/x~hf.html


----------



## aavh

Here are a few more
*Alexander Hay Aberdeen*
Yellow with black top seperated by silver band
*Hewitt Fishing Co Ltd London*
Black with blue flag
*Iago Steam Trawling Co Ltd Fleetwood*
Black with narrow red band
*Inshore Trawlers ( WH Podd Ltd) Lowestoft*
Houseflag ( White with blu border and red WHP in blue diamond) on yellow with narrow blue top seperated by broad white band.
*Richard Irvin & Sons North Shields*
Black with two red bands
*P & J Johnstone Aberdeen*
Black
*W H Kerrr Milford Haven*
Black with white band between two blue bands
*A W King Aberdeen now W H Dodds & Co*
Black
*William Liston Newhaven Edinburgh*
Yellow with black top and two blue bands
*Looker Fishing Co ltd Aberdeen (Thomas Davidson)*
Black
*Dinas Steam Trawling Co Ltd *
Black with broad red band
*Merchants Ltd Milford Haven*
Black with red M on broad white band
*Norrard Trawlers Ltd Milford Haven*
Yellow with large five pointed blue star.
*North Eastern Fisheries Ltd Aberdeen*
White NE monogram on red with narrow red top
*Scottish Motor Trawlers Ltd*
Yellow with deep light green top and red & greenthistle on white disc on latter
*Picton Trawlers Ltd Milford Haven*
Yellow with black top
*G R Purdy Trawlers Ltd North Shields*
Black with narrow white band
*George Robb & Sons Ltd Aberdeen*
Yellow with black top seperated by silver over blue bands
*Small & Co Ltd Lowestoft*
Orange with black top and house flag
*Talisman TrawlersLtd West Hartlepool*
Yellow with black G
*Torbay Trawlers Ltd Brixham*
Yellow with black top and houseflag
*Walker Steam Trawling Co Ltd Aberdeen*
Green with black top and white W on red star on blue edged disc

Bill that is all there is except the humber ones which you say you already have.

Andy


----------



## billblow

AAVH Andy
That site you sent for Aberdeen came up with 7 pre first world war crackers.
Many thanks for your help on that and with the longer lists

There must be other depositaries around containing such gems
Bill


----------



## Gavin Gait

Bill here's a black and white photo of the funnel of the David John A169. Red funnel , white strip ( with A169 in Black painted on it ) , black top cover. There is a white circle ( blue surround with blue DJ in the middle ) in the middle of the red both sides of the funnel.

I'm still trying to find my detail photos of the Forward Pride A367 that show her funnel markings ( for the Forward Motor Trawling Company ( Aberdeen Ltd ) ) and trying to find the old accounts that show the pennant flag for the company too.

Davie


----------



## billblow

Can we try to establish these East Anglian fishing company funnel markings thay are a bit more recent. I would like...............
Bloomfields Ltd. fishing out of Gt Yarmouth
Clan S.F.Co (Grimsby) Ltd. fishing out of Lowestoft. Same as Gy marking ?
Colne F.Co Ltd. 
Putford Enterprises Ltd. 
Claridges Trawlers Ltd. 
Small & Co. (Lowestoft) Ltd. 
Drifter Trawlers Ltd. 
Dagon Fishing Co. Ltd. 
Huxley Fishing Co. 

Many thanks
Bill Blow


----------



## billblow

I now have 3 different funnel colours for the Walker Steam Fishing Co Aberdeen all with a 6 pointed star but either amber green or grey. I favour the grey funnel. Anyone got any comments on this company funnel livery?


----------



## KEMO

Hiya Bill Blow,
have you looked in the gallery on this site

www.milfordtrawlers.org.uk/

Keith.


----------



## billblow

Keith
Thanks for the thought but yes I have. The query I mentioned about Walker's is quite common in that various sources show quite different colours at times. Bill


----------



## gil mayes

Bill
The company was Walker Steam Trawl Fishing Co Ltd, Aberdeen. The funnel marking was an odd shade of grey which had a green tinge, therefore many collectors of funnel markings classed the colour as green not grey (the same happened frequently with the descriptions 'yellow' and 'buff'). The only way to collect markings is as you are now doing, by illustration, though achieving the correct match to the shade of paint the company used is often difficult. So the marking of the Walker concern was - grey/green with a black top and a white 'W' on a red sixpointed star on a blue edged white disc. The last vessel to have a truly black top was their last steam trawler STAR OF ORKNEY (A421) while some of the motor trawlers only had a black rim. See the model of STAR OF ORKNEY in www.aberdeenships.com for the shade of grey.
Gil.


----------



## billblow

Gil
Thanks for that. I had come across that model on that web site and it was the "grey" funnel out of the 3 colours I had I would have favoured. There are on that site I'm sure you know 7 or 8 hand painted funnel liveries and house flags. Pity there was not one for each ship built. Gil would you know if the Bon Accord Fishing Co Ltd of Aberdeen was a subsidairy of Walkers and if it was did it use the Walkers funnel livery. I have now quite a few Museums, Libraries, Heritage centres and the like looking to see what they have secreted about. It would be nice to pull all the sources together and get them on disc for everyone to use.
Bill


----------



## gil mayes

Bill
Associated companies of Bon Accord Steam Fishing Co Ltd, were Empire Steam Fishing Co of Aberdeen Ltd, Loch Line Steam Trawling & Fishing Co Ltd, Standard Fishing Co of Aberdeen Ltd and White Star Steam Fishing Co of Aberdeen Ltd all with LOCH ... names. They were managed in the 1920s and '30s by H.A. Holmes who owned LOCH BLAIR and LOCH CARRON in his own right. At the moment I have no idea what marking they carried.
I am no expert on Aberdeen vessels, but a common thread often runs through to Fleetwood.
It would be a superb record if all the trawling firm markings could be collected and available to all, but there were so many one and two ship companies that it is an enormous task. Stick with it.
Gil.


----------



## billblow

This should may be on "where will this thread end" but her goes.
During the turn of the last century the Prince of Wales was visiting Grimsby Fish Docks. One of the flunkies at the tail of the entourage turned to a dock worker and said "tell me my good man where may I find the urinal" the dock worker thought for a short while and said "never heard of her guv, whats she got on her funnel?"
This must be the only trawler funnel joke in existence. (if in fact it is a joke)
Bill


----------



## billblow

I have now through varies sources not the least SN exceeded recording over 600 fishing company funnel colours and now find Fleetwood to be falling behind. 
I need now
Active Steam Fishing Co Ltd
Adam Steam Fishing Co Ltd
Alvis Trawler Ltd
Richard Betness
Clifton Steam Trawlers
H Elliot and Sons Ltd
Jackson and Kelsall
Lune Steam Fishing Co
Mersey Steam Trawlers
Mount Steam Fishing Co
New Dock Steam Fishing Co
Port St Mary Fishing and Curing Co
Sun Steam Trawling Co Ltd
John N Ward
Thank you 
Bill


----------



## billblow

*preview*

If I've managed my first attachment correctly it will show a few of the 635 funnel liveries now recorded. It's only a mock up and when I eventually make it available for all, each livery will stand alone with info for many of the relevant companies or subsidairy. 
I hope the attachment gets SN members to look and think a little deeper and see if more can be found from old photo's paintings and memories. 
750 recorded would be a nice figure to aim for
Bill


----------



## Peter4447

Absolutely first-class Bill. 
Research such as this is so important - how many of those fine old Fishing company funnel markings could so easily be lost forever without dedicated people such as yourself.
Just as a point of interest are you thinking of adding in the few modern day ones that still remain - if so here is an interesting one for you. A few years ago we had a Beam Trawler here in Brixham whose crew decided her funnel would look nice gaily painted in red,yellow and green. Not sure whether they had all became Rastafarians or were Bob Marley fans but she ran like that for a few months so one can only assume the owner gave his permission!
Peter4447(Thumb)


----------



## billblow

Thank you Peter. Yes modern ones are fine I have a good many fairly modern ones and if any one has an individual one for a single vessel they own or sail on I will add it to the data base for posterity. The ones that are 120 years old were modern once remember. Now I've mastered the attachment business I'll add a mock up page from time to time of different era's to keep the interest going.
Bill


----------



## billblow

*Funnel Liveries*

I am adding a second mock up page of trawler company funnel liveries with a slightly more modern feel that should be more familiar to members. These are drawn onto a different funnel shape pro forma than the previous page that is used to indicate the size of the vessels owned by that company and of the period they represent. The next mock up page will be "modern" motor funnels.
Although as said before certain companies went right through from "woodbine" funnels to the mini motor funnel.
Comments invited on the attachment, good or bad !
Magnify for a clearer view


----------



## aavh

Excellent work


----------



## Steve Farrow

Bill,
I think what you are doing is brilliant. Often, when I have been asked to paint trawlers from about the turn of the century it has been quite a task to track down the correct funnel colours for particular ships. You are compiling and preserving what would have been lost as time moves on. Well done!
Regards
Steve


----------



## Kerbtrawler

excellent work Bill,

In my database I often when known comment on the Funnel and Hull colours and markings but it brings a new meaning when you can see them painted on the funnels

cheers


----------



## treeve

*Breach*

Bill - what you are doing is amazing and so very important.

I am writing up the Breach vessels for Roy, please could I ask
if you have a funnel design for the John Breach vessels, I would very much
like to be able to have it on the index page (properly credited).

I have a picture of an LT76, but unsure of her name or fleet.
Does the attached funnel picture ring any bells?

Best Wishes, Raymond


----------



## Kerbtrawler

Hi Raymond,
I suppose you have discounted EASTLEIGH 
I think its probably too new looking at the funnel
its colours were Black Funnel with an Orange band and a Black Hull

cheers


----------



## treeve

Hi Trev,
If it was the Breach vessel, she would be the EXCEL, but
I do not know what her funnel markings should be.
The one on this funnel looks a little like a four petal rose.
Steel ship she is and the Excel was steel. The name is not
showing so the only clue on this poor photo is the funnel mark.
Thanks, Raymond


----------



## Kerbtrawler

The EXCEL
off No 125309
built 1907 for J Downie, Fraserburgh

She was originally FR 235 in 1920 owned by R Bisset
Then R 373 owned by J H Osborn
Then LT 76 when she was sold to Kittiewake Ltd in 1930

When I get home I will check my Database and get back to you

cheers


----------



## treeve

*Lt76*

I have the full history from Roy, if it is the Excel, by the way.
I meant to post the scan that I was sent many moons ago.
It is not that good, but I am grateful for any picture.

There appears to be an LT10 inboard of her.

Best Wishes, Raymond


----------



## billblow

*J Breach Ltd*

Raymond
Afraid J. Breach Ltd as yet has escaped the net and I have nothing at all on their funnel livery. It does go to emphasise how many of them are lost and perhaps never to be known. Silly as it may sound I have some black and white liveries recorded were the logo or colour changes are distinct for future hopeful colouring. Perhaps a b/w section should be started so future researchers could date the the photograph. All it would take would be b/w photographs of say two different vessels that were known at some time in their lives owned by the same company if they match you have the livery albeit in b/w
I did go on the Aberdeen built ships site to see if they had built any for them and whilst they had not they did have mention of J Breach or J V Breach for six vessels that they built that in some time in their live were owned by Breach. Just type Breach in the search box
Bill


----------



## Kerbtrawler

Bill here's a couple more for you for the Fleetwood Vessels

Clifton Steam Trawlers

Funnel Yellow with Black Top Seperated by Silver Band
Funnel Red with or without Black Top

New Dock Steam Fishing Co

Black with House Flag (White N on Blue) 

I will let you have others as I come across them

cheers


----------



## Kerbtrawler

Hi Raymond
Sorry no luck but I'll keep looking

Cheers


----------



## treeve

Thanks Bill ... I have checked back and see that the FEASIBLE
also has a white rose on her funnel on another photograph. 
I need to check overlap ownerships. Thanks for the tip.
Thanks as well to Trev. I will sort the photos a bit more.
Best Wishes, Raymond


----------



## Ian

Dont Know Were These Colors Came From But There Know Were Near Right The Colors Were Black Top White Band Pink Bottom Both Firms I Have 5 Slides 48 Funnels On Of Funnel Colors How Do I Get Them On Sn  So Others Can Share Them Help


----------



## billblow

Hi Trawlerboy
I assume you are talking about Clifton S T Co Ltd and New Dock S F Co Ltd.
Hope your able to get the slides on to SN. Are they commercial slides or something of your own making?
Bill


----------



## Kerbtrawler

Hi Trawler boy
Looks like you are quite correct. I got the colours from Ian Allens British coastal ships book, I have now had chance to look in Fleetwoods fishing Industry book and on page 95 it clearly shows all of the company's colours.

Clifton Steam Trawlers Limited (New Docks Steam Trawling Co Ltd)
Black top Broad white band Pinkish bottom ( salmon colour )

I will try to scan it in and post it but not sure how to do that.....

cheers


----------



## Kerbtrawler

Hopefully i have attached the page


----------



## billblow

Hi Kerbtrawler 
Received with thanks. Able to pick off the colour fine. A little hard to read the first one but I assume J Marr and Son but the wording although blurred to me looks a little different. While we are on with Fleetwood does anyone have details of Fleetwood S T Co Ltd as shown on the Float site for Merisia FD 153
Black cap, pale funnel, dark F. Would be nice to record this after such a sad story.


----------



## Ian

Hi The Funnel Markings Slides Were Copied From Pages Of Funnel Images Drawn 48 Per Page Then Colored In 5 Trawler 2tugs As Well


----------



## billblow

*Modern liveries*

As promised with last weeks posting this weeks selection is of a period which some SN members will remember so memories may be jogged to comment about these or others of the same era. As well as accepting older liveries I am still very open to accepting todays funnel liveries as they will be tomorrows memories.
Bill
click magnifier to view the thumbnail at it's best


----------



## billblow

*Fish, Fowl and Animals*

This weeks posting is a collection of fish, fowl and animals. Some of these funnel liveries are 100 years old. Offerings by SN members seems to have dried up so please rack your brains to add to the eventual database that will be available to all.
Use magnifier for best view.
Next week one for Davie


----------



## billblow

*One for Davie*

As promised for this weeks posting there is one for Davie for which Davie I invite your comments. The b/w funnel pic you sent was not too clear for the logo so need to know if OK or needs a tweek also the owner title is from British Coastal Ships, Tugs and Trawlers by SN member Gilbert Mayes and not the one you passed onto me once. Not one offering from any SN member in a whole week (well not on the forum but I do get some other ways). Time is running out to get as many as possible recorded before they are lost for ever. It is pleasing to see the Milford and Fleetwood site using the collection now but I still hope for many more Funnel Liveries so that future researchers will have a useful tool to help them date and identify a photograph. By the way the method I use to get them to thumbnail slightly dulls and changes the colour as in the case of the base colour on the Ardrossan Trawling Co.
Use magnfier for best view.


----------



## Gavin Gait

The one you have as John Bowman and others is in fact the Craig Group Trawlers colours ( John was one of the part owners in a few boats but Craigs had quite a big fleet and they use the same colours to this day on their standby boats sailing under the North Star Shipping subsidiary ). The William Tait one should be David Jack , John Johnstone & Others ( my Grandfather and John owned 3/4 of the boat and thats where the name David John and the funnel markings come from ).

Davie(Thumb)


----------



## billblow

Thanks Davie I take the David John funnel is correct. You had given me the registered owners trading name before but I took the one Gill used in his book so your name was carried forward for posterity. I'll change it back on the database no problem these are only mock up pages for SN and not anything like the end product will be. I have George Craig & Sons Ltd livery under that name but Grampian Cairn A 346 was registered to J S Bowman and Others at one time so I show it as thus for future researchers. As the H K F Trawlers Ltd had Admiral Drake A 514 Admiral Jellicoe A 515 and Boston Hercules A 160I have chosen to show each subsidary while I could have shown a list of subsidairies under the Craig name. Aberdeen is a nightmare towards the end they seem to change Co and funnel liveries like other people change socks and many single ship subsidairies. Anyway thanks for your valued comments. (still waiting for the Forward Motor Trawling Co (Aberdeen) Ltd. hint hint
Bill


----------



## Gavin Gait

There you go Bill , Red with a Black top but there was an insignia. We're not 100% sure but we think it was in the shape of a flag ( narrow end aft ) black outline same red background as funnel with FMT (F slightly higher than M slightly higher than the T )


----------



## Richard John Burton

Stanley Rowden Ramsgate steam trawlers had black funnels with a wide red
band which was fitted a sheet metal blue flag with a white border in the centre of the flag was a white five pointed star


----------



## billblow

Richard 
Many thanks for that. I don't know anything about the owner so could you tell me the approx age of vessels or period they operated. You will see from the pages I've posted 3 type of funnels. I need really to know so a early "woodbine" funnel isn't depicted with a mini motor type funnel. Anyway thanks for breaking the duck with Ramsgate.
Bill
Edit
Richard since I posted I have Googled up info on Stanley Rowden so have the answer thank you


----------



## Lord Hood

Lowestoft Information
In the 1970s members of the Port of Lowestoft Research Society were involved in a project to record as many Lowestoft drifter and trawler funnel markings as possible. There are hundreds of examples now in the Lowestoft Record Office and these are used by local artists for various commissions. Basically Lowestoft is very well covered for liveries and funnel colours of the bygone fleet. If anybody wants to know about Putfords (at one time owner of the preserved Putford Merlin or Mincarlo and not BDSF as some sources state), this is easy. Their ships are at work in the North Sea now. The colour markings on these is the same as that carried by their trawlers, including Mincarlo, just ingnore the "S" if there is one. Go to Yarmouth and you will see many ships operated by Boston Putford, a company now owned by Seacor. The SSVs also visit Lowestoft, sometimes there are three in, but only for about 8 hours (for stores and crew change) then they are off again back on duty near the rigs. The scene when one of these comes in is also the same as when a trawler landed, lots of activity and many taxis on the quayside. I expect many will know that the Boston Putford head office at Lowestoft is the old BDSF and Consolidated office.

Yarmouth Information
Les Hawkins, who many will know through his Yarmouth fishing industry books, complied a detailed list of Yarmouth fishing vessels funnel marking and this is available locally. As with Lowestoft, Yarmouth is well covered. 

Hope this is of interest to somebody!!!
Kind Regards


----------



## billblow

Lord Hood,
This of course is of great interest to me as I had hoped to get as many funnel liveries onto one research source as possible. I envisage a free to all disc or what ever retrieval system at all sites where fishing vessel research may be carried out. Some ports are more comprehensively recorded than others and it would seem from what you say the East Anglian ports are a case in point. There are other ports however were this is certainly not the case and were recorded funnel liveries are at best fragmented around in small collections or more likely not recorded at all. The very welcome offering by R J Burton further up this page of the Stanley Rowden Ramsgate livery shows how perhaps the smaller ports could disappear so easily from memory and sight. The need for one major source is made when researching a vessels history from photographs and finding many changes of ownership within a port or the sale and movement between ports and being able to access that information without travelling the length and breadth of our once great fishing nation. 
Bill


----------



## davetodd

Hello Bill,
The SN website is rapidly becoming a quasi official source for information, particularly with good input coming in from all over, yourself included.
Keep going.
Regards
Dave


----------



## billblow

*Added colour*

This weeks offering takes a 100 year old photograph and identifies the owners of various trawlers within the jumble that was Grimsby fish docks. Whilst the photograph doesn't allow individual trawlers to be identified it doe's show how helpful the database is in respect of research. The funnel carrying the F may well in retrospect be the Fleetwood Steam Fishing Co but the 1912 Lloyds Book of Flags and Funnels shows it buff/yellow funnel, black smoke cap and black F.
Please use magnifier for best results.
Bill


----------



## Richard John Burton

The Eastick family of Gt Yarmouth/ Gorleston has 43 boats between them
starting with the Sailing Vessel Piscator YH105 built in 1858 finishing with
the Motor Trawler Hawkflight A215 built in 1961. They had 2 house flags
both Red & White squares or rectangles in a checkerboard design. Mr H.F.
Eastick, 6 rectangles nearest the mast from top RED, WHITE, RED, outer 
WHITE,RED,WHITE. His son H.J.Eastick had 9 squares in 3 rows of 3 as above
but the outer third row RED,WHITE,RED top to bottom. I am sure the preserved steam drifter Lydia Eva YH89 has H.J Flag
My Grandmother was born in GT Yarmouth her maiden name was Eastick but I
never found a link with the fishing family.


----------



## billblow

Richard Many thanks.
Would like to break my duck with Plymouth.
There were Grimsby trawlers that fished many years from the south coast and kept their GY registry. Owned by W H Chant and then J Chant. The Oakwold GY 948 and Trojan Gy 848 were two to my knowledge and perhaps Atlantic GY 1085 Seahawk GY 1073 and Dereske GY 1144 as well. Any one know the funnel livery of these while on the south coast ?


----------



## mattarosa

*Postcards*

Bill
I am assuming you will have seen these but I have just found among my files four pictures of postcards that I downloaded from ebay. I probably bid on them and lost. They are in a series called House Flags and Funnels and are
Trawlers nos 3, 4, 5, 6. I've attached thumbs because even if you've seen them, others may not have.

Mind you, given your project, you are probably the person who outbid me on ebay!

Hilary


----------



## billblow

Hilary
Thank you but I have seen them, "bought" them same way you did.
They are very colourful but don't be too beguiled by the pretty colours.
Take the first sheet you posted of the four (happens to be Sheet No 3 ) 
F & T Ross Ltd Hull the R should be black.
Charleson Smith Hull both black bands should be same width they show top band narrower
Walker Steam Trawl Fishing Co Aberdeen should be a black smoke cap, funnel body a greyish green or should say a greenish grey more correctly, with a white W on a red star on a white circle with a blue rim.
J Marr & Son a much fuller red and not the pinkish red shown.
I could go on.
They are though a good starting point but we have to make sure we don't just slavishly copy and perpetuate errors which is why I wish for as much input to the collection from everyone and my weekly sheets are there to be shot down by anyone who wishes a pop and it's fine by me.
Bill


----------



## mattarosa

Bill
I admire your attitude and dedication. I have seen many errors perpetuated -from one website to another, for example, or books that have copied errors from earlier books. True research requires not only sources, but checking and cross referencing of sources. All power to you.
Hilary


----------



## Lord Hood

Richard John Burton said:


> The Eastick family of Gt Yarmouth/ Gorleston has 43 boats between them
> starting with the Sailing Vessel Piscator YH105 built in 1858 finishing with
> the Motor Trawler Hawkflight A215 built in 1961. They had 2 house flags
> both Red & White squares or rectangles in a checkerboard design. Mr H.F.
> Eastick, 6 rectangles nearest the mast from top RED, WHITE, RED, outer
> WHITE,RED,WHITE. His son H.J.Eastick had 9 squares in 3 rows of 3 as above
> but the outer third row RED,WHITE,RED top to bottom. I am sure the preserved steam drifter Lydia Eva YH89 has H.J Flag
> My Grandmother was born in GT Yarmouth her maiden name was Eastick but I
> never found a link with the fishing family.


Ken Kent's notes in his book "Herring Heydays" on the Eastick family has very detailed information concerning the family and the house flags used on their drifters, trawlers and longshore boats. If you have a copy of this rare book have a look at page 68. A drifterman all his life, Ken was usually to be found in the summer months on board Lydia Eva showing holiday makers around. He was a member of the Friends of Lydia Eva and also the Port of Lowestoft Research Society. Fortuately he gave me many of his fishing vessel photographs two years before his death, including some of the big Yarmouth steam trawlers.

The funnel of YH89 Lydia Eva now has the Eastick house flag painted up and also the funnel lettering. She is still on Small's slip at Lowestoft. 

Kind Regards


----------



## billblow

Thanks
I have an East Anglian holiday planned as these ports are poorly represented among the major fishing ports of the UK on my data base. (687 in total to date)
This weeks offering is three funnels that I wish you to look at and comment on. They are just first worked roughs that need verification before a final work over. I have also tried a different way of getting to a thumbnail to avoid printing (which is costly in coloured inks) and scanning prior to getting them onto the forum
So lets see how they turn out and have comments on them as to their correctness
Bill


----------



## billblow

*To Confirm*

Well we didn't do very well with the last posting did we. 
Can we try with this next posting. Can any SN member confirm any of these Fleetwood roughs so I can add them to the list. We are now teetering around the 700 mark but still a long way to go to the end. Please feel free to save the funnel liveries into a folder for your own use if you wish to.


----------



## nicolina

Hello Billblow:
Some of the early post war built trawlers for the Fred Parkes North Cape Fishing Co had a different hull color from other Bostons/stAndrews as well as a different 
funnell color.
Did they have other companys under their owner ship who did not carry their usual colors/funnell colors.


----------



## billblow

Nicolina
I find the whole question of multiple companies held by one company very confusing. It seems when you look hard that they chopped and changed about either with paper movements or just whims that took them during various times in their ownwership. Just when you think you have come up with the answer you find a photograph albiet mostly in black and white that makes you uncertain again partly because the precise date is missing.
But please everyone don't be affraid to offer them up as we still have 100's out there between us to record.
Bill


----------



## Steve Farrow

Bill,
It's always been a major problem when painting these trawlers from black & white photo's....especially the earlier ships! You are filling a huge void in this department, and a thank you from me will not be amiss!

Steve


----------



## billblow

To follow up Nicolina's posting of GY 135 Anacoana photo on the gallery and my early "panic" that it was sporting yet another J & G Alward funnel livery, calm returned when a close look showed it to be one on the attached sheet. The white band on my representation may well be a little too wide for the one in the pic but is based on other pics where the band was wider.
Their other companies shown carried the first letter of the vessels name as also show on the examples on the attachment. 
I'm fairly certain they all settled down into the black funnel red over white bands carrying a black A over.
Use magnifier facility for best viewing.


----------



## billblow

Steve
The Kottingham I favour is same as your wonderful painting.
Bill


----------



## billblow

*Dutch Treat !*

This weeks offering of early Dutch funnel liveries is as a huge thank you to SN member Jan H who single handedly provided me with 26 early British funnel liveries I had not previously recorded plus 17 from the Nederlands 6 from Belgian and 27 from France.
It occured to me as so many British vessels were bought or sold with these countries that perhaps an appendix at the rear of the British contingent may be in order. For that reason I redrew them into the database.
Pleae note in getting my originals onto the thumbnail shown, there is a great deal of distortion of colour and lines from those originals.
Anyway the Jan H superb offering shows that coloured funnel liveries are still out there somewhere waiting to be recorded so please keep looking.
Bill
use magnifier for best result when viewing attachments


----------



## billblow

*French Stars*

This weeks offering shows pre WW1 French fishing companies funnel liveries.
They all include stars and it would appear the further south you go the more colourful they seem to get. Full of Gallic flair one would say. Not one addition from SN members this week, what are you playing at?


----------



## billblow

*Man o War H 181*

Trawler Man o War H 181 ON 164423 when scrapped in1963 was registered in Olsen's to the Devon Fishing Co Ltd. Was this an Hellyer Brothers Ltd "paper" company and so had the Hellyer funnel livery of yellow funnel, black cap with a blue flag with a white H or did it have something else on it's funnel ?
What if anything did the Devon Fishing Co of Hull have to do with the Devon Steam Trawling Co Ltd of Fleetwood ?


----------



## osta

Devon Fg Co Fwd Colors Black/black/white/cheque/band/green Bottom River Dart One Of There Ships


----------



## billblow

*Devon S.T. Co Fleetwood*

Osta
This is the Devon S T Co Ltd Fleetwood funnel livery. Sounds similar.
Are you saying Man o War ever had this or something similar ie black and white squares ?
Would seem some tie up between Hull and Fleetwood if so.

Edit Osta I realise now River Dart was a Fleetwood vessel so now I think you are saying the Fleetwood Devon is black and white cheques and not green and white. The funnel livery I am showing is from the colour plates of Olsens 1912/14


----------



## gil mayes

Bill,
Devon Steam Trawling Co Ltd, Fleetwood was an independent company until absorbed by J. Marr & Son Ltd pre WW1, shortly after they absorbed the Tettenhall Steam Fishing Co Ltd and the Norbreck Steam Fishing Co Ltd.

RIVER DART (FD227) (1908-1913)
O.N. 127568. 338g 130n 141.0 x 24.1 x 12.6 feet
T.3-cyl by Earle’s Shipbuilding & Engineering Co Ltd, Hull

28.9.1908: Launched by Goole Shipbuilding & Repairing Co Ltd, Goole (Yd.No.125) for Devon Steam Trawling Co Ltd, Fleetwood. as River Dart. 11.1908: Completed. 14.11.1908: Registered at Fleetwood (FD227). 1913: Sold to C. J. Spahde, Riga, Russia. 9.5.1913: Fleetwood registry closed. 1913: Renamed Sapad. Registered at Archangel. post1913. Renamed Zapad. 7.1915: Requisitioned by Russian Naval Authorities and converted for minesweeping duties. 12.1916: Renamed T.12. 3.8.1918: Seized in WhiteSea and subsequently renamed Steamaxe (Ad.No.4342). 1.11.1919: Inward from Murmansk to Rosyth, stranded on rocks off Inchkeith Island, Firth of Forth . 1921: Salved and cut up.
Gil.


----------



## billblow

*Owners Names Required*

This weeks question, can anyone name the owners of these two funnel liveries ? There both pretty unremarkable but non the less important in our fishing heritage and it would be very nice to be able to add them to the database that now numbers 802 companies or variations of those companies. Even if your not 100% sure of the owners a stab may be of use and point us in the right direction.
Please use the magnifing facility for best view.
Bill


----------



## aavh

Bill, Here is the history of the South Tyne ON 119901 as I have it with all except her first owner in South Shields (Possibly J Wilson ?)
*South Tyne**: *(SSS 1) (1903 – 1933)
O.N. 119901: 79g 15n 80.0 x 18.1 x 8.5 feet
35 hp T.3-cyl by Shields Engineering & Dry Dock Co Ltd North Shields

1903: Launched by J T Eltringham & Co Ltd South Shields (Yd. No 245) for? as *“**South Tyne**”*. 1903: Completed. 1903: Registered at South Shields SSS 1. 1908: Owned by J Cameron & A. Irwin St Monance Fife registered at Methil ML 83. 15.09.1910: Owned by James Hellings Milford Haven registered at Milford Haven M 60. 10.06.1912: Owned by William Evans & Sarah Jane Hellings Milford Haven. 10.12.1914: Owned by Edward James Hellings & Sarah James Hellings Milford Haven. 12.1915: Requisitioned as a Net Laying Vessel (Ad No. 2721). 22.01.1917: Owned by Sarah Jane Hellings & William Evans Milford Haven. 1919: Returned to Owners._Undated_: Sarah Jane Hellings, John Brown & Francis Percival Locke Milford Haven. Undated: Owned by Edward James Milford Haven. 11.07.1933: Foundered in the Rosehearty Fairway Moray Firth.

Here is Perverus ON 137373

*Lanercost:* (SN 248) (1915-1955) 
O.N. 137373. 227g 87n 117.0 x 22.5 x 13.0 feet
80 hp T.3-cyl by Smith’s Dock Co Ltd Middlesbrough

07.12.1915: Launched by Smith’s Dock Co Ltd Middlesbrough (Yd.No.607) for? North Shields as *“Lanercost” **SN 248.*1.1927: Completed. 21.01.1916: Registered at North Shields SN 248. 01.1916 Requisitioned from the stocks and converted to minesweeper (Ad No 3254). 27.12.1916: North Shields registry closed. 12.1916: Owned by Palatine Steam Trawling Co Ltd Fleetwood (J N Ward & Son managers). 29.12.1916: Registered at Fleetwood FD 292. 1919: Returned to Owners. 27.09.1921: Renamed *“DARWEN”*. 06.10.1928: Stranded in Druridge Bay Northumberland. Later refloated and repaired. 1934: Owned by Thomas M Reed Tynemouth. 11.1939: Requisitioned as an Auxiliary Patrol Vessel (P.No. FY 1859). 1940: Converted to minesweeper. 1946: Returned to Owners. 1948: Owned by Mrs C M Reed (Tynemouth) & W F Reed (Crail Fife) Grimsby (H. Markham Cook, manager). 1951: Fleetwood registry closed. 1951: Owned by Goodleigh Fisheries Ltd Milford Haven renamed *“WESTLEIGH”* (Henry J. Richards manager) 20.07.1951: Registered at Milford Haven M 169. 24.07.1952: Milford registry closed. 1952: Owned by Percy Turner & Sons Plymouth. 07.1952: Renamed *“PERVERSUS”* registered at Plymouth PH 116. 1955: Scrapped

Regards

Andy


----------



## billblow

By Jove Andy that was quick. I'm happy with the Pervesus with owner Percy Turner & Sons Plymouth.
I feel uneasy with South Tyne although she had the Methil reg when I see the previous owner was J T Eltringham & Co Ltd of South Shields that thumping big E slap bang in the middle of the funnel could well belong to them and not the Cameron & Irwin lads although having the Methil reg. at the time. I'll just put that one in the pending file and look for some more Eltringham vessels if they had any before I put that one on the master database.
Any way 1 out of 2 ain't that bad
Many Thanks 
Bill
Andy just thought are you saying Eltingham are the builders? yep I bet you are. silly me


----------



## osta

Sorry About The Dfvon Firm It Was Green/white Squares


----------



## gil mayes

PERVERUS (137373) as PH116 was owned by Percy V. Turner, Percy V. Turner Jnr & Charles R. Turner, Plymouth. Apart from Chant & Paddon with their Green and Black top funnels (Argyle supporters), Plymouth trawlers tended to modify previous markings and there was not a lot of consistancy.

Osta. The only trawler that Devon Steam Fishing Co Ltd, Fleetwood owned as an independent company was RIVER DART (127568) as we have mentioned before. They owned her 1908 to 1913. Do you have a sketch of the marking or is it related to other Devon vessels when they were in the Marr set-up?
Gil.


----------



## osta

I Have A Pic Of River Dart B/w But Have Just Found My Book With Some Sketches In That I Did Some Time Ago All In Color The Devon Colors Were Black/green/white Squares Black Band Green Bottom House Flag Green/white Squares Hope This Is Ok For Your Files I Have 6/7 Slides With Loads Of Funnel Colors Plus 2 With Tugs Also


----------



## billblow

*consistency*

Gil and osta thanks for your continued help and intrest. Gil you talk of consistency, 3 of my major large sources of pre WW1 funnel liveries are the 1906 Olsen's colour plates the 1912 Lloyds Flags and Funnels and the 1914 Olsen's colour plates. The variations of the same companies and even liveries that are so different from one another as to appear different companies. I do record them all and list them as style 1 2 3 etc and from what source. It's the only thing one can do after 100 years, but I also record similar more recent variations that I come across. Only this morning I added the funnel livery of Hudson's of Hull as style 1 and 2 after looking at one of Nicolina's pics I realised that the motor funnels have a much narrower white band than those on the steam funnels which is very broad white band. I believe these need to be shown and not just to say and show black funnel white band.
Osta if you feel you can share your colour drawings I would be very pleased to accept them I may already have them but there may again be variations that occured that I could use. 
Gil the Devon livery I am showing on this forum is from the Lloyds 1912 info which also shows houseflag green/white checks.
I look forward to both your further inputs and those of others also

Gil are you saying if I google up a Plymouth Argyle shirt colour I will have the correct green for Chant and Paddon funnel livery ? and what about the Chant who had the Grimsby registered trawlers any ideas ?

Bill


----------



## gil mayes

Bill
Last week's wind & rain knocked out my telephone line!
As I am led to believe the colour green was very close to the Argyle colour green. As you may know John Chant was skipper and owned the CHANCELLOR(113083)(FD339) in his own right and his brother Herbert owned the OAKWOLD ((105533) ((GY948) and TROJAN (109819)(GY848). Certainly the TROJAN's funnel was plain black and the OAKWOLD had a buff funnel black top and a motif (? ex Grimsby owner Robinson?). The first Plymouth steam trawler was the REGINALD(112453) (PH75) owned by J. H. Luxton and she carried a red funnel with black top. John Chant was also manager of Plymouth Mutual Steam Fishing Co Ltd which bought some of the Kelsall & Beeching vessels around the time of their going into liquidation. Whether their funnel marking was radically changed I do not know.
Gil.


----------



## billblow

Gil yet again many thanks for info.
What I have on Oakwold GY 948 original owners Northwold Steam Fishing Co
owner/manager Thomas Sowerby with funnel livery black funnel with a white W in a white rimmed red disc (Olsen's 1907) or black funnel with white W in a white rimmed black disc (Lloyds 1912) sold to Eddystone Steam Fishing Co 3/1920. Sound like a possible Plymouth Chant Co ? and then various Chant's for a further 10 years.
Trojan GY 848 original owner Thomas Robinson with funnel livery black funnel and house flag the international signal flag of T (tricolour reversed) sold to Eddystone Steam Fishing Co 3/1920 and then various Chant's for the next 10 years. So it would seem some one had a few bob to spend in March 1920
Owner of both vessels according to Plimsoll Ships from 1932 was a J C Wilson
Bill


----------



## billblow

*Hochseefischerei Bremerhaven*

Dave this is why I thought they owned the Burgomeister Smidt.
My data.
Lloyds Funnels
Funnel of Burgermeister Smidt
No mention of that company owning the vessel in that info you put me onto but that doesn't mean they didn't
Bill


----------



## billblow

*C H Smith & Co (hull) Ltd*

Anyone know the true colours of this Hull company from the 30's
Taken from B/W photo with clip shown.
I reckon the diamond may be red !
Thanks
Bill


----------



## billblow

Gil
This is why I still think the Encore funnel as I said
Don't understand it but there is the info on the attachment.
Can't think LLoyds and Olsen so wrong.
What do you think?
Bill


----------



## gil mayes

Bill,
If you look closely at the funnel marking on ENCORE the 'band' is irregular and does not appear to go round the fore end of the funnel. I suspect the second of the two Great Northern, black with yellow band and red fish only the yellow band is deeper than you have depicted.
Gil.


----------



## davetodd

I see what Gil means Bill.
The Grimsby library have photographs of 4 other Great Northern Steam F.Co. vessels.
Effort H274 built 1895 Govan 1916 lost
Elbe H358 built 1897 Govan 1935 B.U.
Evadne H945 built 1907 Govan 1917 lost
Progress H475 built 1899 Leith 1915 lost
as well as a photo. of Encore H523 
I can check these later this week if you wish.
Regards 
Dave


----------



## billblow

Gil
Thanks, I've said thank you also on the fishing gallery under pic with a little grovelling excuse.
There are quite a lot of profound differences of the same companies between Olsen and Lloyd in which case I show both.
I'll modify the band width in line with the photograph which is always the best way to do it.
Dave thank you, if it keeps this miserable weather up I think I'll pop to the library and have a delve in the other port books.
Bill


----------



## gil mayes

Bill,
From my point of view this is what this site is all about, sharing and furthering knowledge, with a touch of nostalgia of course. It would be of use if Dave or yourself looked at the other photographs to see if the yellow band depth corresponded to ENCORE. Also if the pics are dated it might give a clue to when the marking changed. I suspect that the ENCORE funnel was the original mark and was changed to your first illustration later.
Gil.


----------



## davetodd

Bill,
My money is on the funnel markings being that shown in your first option.
Then again, it's not often I'm right so could be wrong this time!
Many of the photographs are bereft of any information.A date or year would have been helpful.
Dave


----------



## gil mayes

Dave,
The ENCORE funnel clearly has a black base.
Gil.


----------



## billblow

*dating*

Gil / Dave
The marvelous Olsen collection Jan H sent to me are dated 1914 edition (used in the attachment). The Lloyds Book of Flags and Funnels is dated 1912(also used in the attachment). This may just account for the very odd difference at times between the two sources but not most.The other major pre WW1 source I have used is the 1907 Olsens collection in the Grimsby Central Library. After that for this period its down to paintings. I don't use tinted postcards as they are very unreliable. There is on the fishing gallery a photo of GY docks showing amongst others G F Sleights Rheno all in black and white. In the collections at GY library which Dave is so admirably putting into order there is a tinted postcard same as the B/W photo in the gallery and the blue bands of Sleights are tinted red !
I show as you can see the source pasted to the illustration. 
Thanks again for your continued help and interest.
Bill


----------



## aavh

*Elbe*

Bill, Dont know if this will help. Elbe H358

Andy


----------



## billblow

*elbe*

Andy
Yes it does help a lot now I know what I'm looking at. I took the dark mark originally on the Encore pic as a black band but when you know you can see more easy the "uneveness" of the band to be a fish. The length of the "yellow" is clear to see and will enable me to come up with a fairly true illustration of a hundred plus year old funnel livery in conjunction with the Olsen and Lloyd plates. It's like Gil said we'll get there with a bit of help from our friends
Thanks again Andy
Bill


----------



## billblow

*Hull Steam Fishing & Ice Co Ltd*

Dave
This is my HULL STEAM FISHING & ICE CO info attached


----------



## gil mayes

Bill,

Correct. There are a few examples where the flag was larger, almost forming a panel the width of the funnel and some where the red cross appears 'wavy'. 
As you know Hull Steam Fishing & Ice Co Ltd, Hull went into voluntary liquidation on 6 Mar 1936 in the wake of the collapse of Kelsall Bros & Beeching.
Gil.


----------



## osta

Ch Smith Funnel Is It Taken From Pic Of Adm Drake H 273 If So I Have This Also Is There Not A Letter In The Marking On White Band


----------



## billblow

*Admiral Drake*

Hi OSTA
Its from Nicolina's b/w pic of the Admiral Drake H 273 thats on the fishing gallery. Find it with search, all I see is a diamond on a white band. You appear to see something different or you have a different pic. I don't think the Charleson Fishing Co or C H Smith & Co (Hull) Ltd existed for long before becoming the Charleson-Smith Trawlers Ltd. Do you know the history? and can you let me know what you have to say the "diamond" I seem to see is in fact a letter.
Thanks
Bill


----------



## gil mayes

We seem to be jumping about a bit. OSTA is correct, there does appear to be something on the diamond, but what? Charleson-Smith Trawlers Ltd was formed in 1938.
Gil.


----------



## billblow

Gil
I see it
I think this confirms I treat myself to a new bigger screen.
I can see it when I transfer it to Picass2 and then open it on paint + 200%
Can't say for positve but it may be a dark diamond outline with a inner white diamond ?
Any way it's in the greyscale pending until more comes to light.
Now off to PC world for a browse
Bill


----------



## osta

Hi Its Me Again Look At Pic Of Stella Orion H 215 The Object In The White Band Shows Up Better


----------



## billblow

*Stella Orion*

Hi OSTA
Thanks for your input on the subject.
I can see it clearer and with my new sooper dooper monitor its tantalizing close to total recognition but not quite. I’m assuming the Charleson Fishing Co who she was registered to between 1935 – 1937 was owned by Charles Hudson for it was he who joined with Cecil Smith in 1938 to form Charleson Smith Trawlers Ltd. (I bet Gil knows) Anyway I now wonder if it is a C or H in the diamond that I see for Charleson or Hudson. But until a positive recognition it’s got to be in the pending file although we all now know a Hull vessel owner when we see it even in b/w
Thanks 
Bill


----------



## billblow

*Owners ?*

Here is a query that the younger SN members can have a go at.
Who are the owners of these funnel liveries.
Bill


----------



## billblow

*Owners*

Well we didn't do any good with my last query with the two modern vessels so lets see if we can do better with this query.
On the gallery these two vessels appear with what appear to be quite different colours.
Any one know the correct company trading name if it is not W. van der Zwan & Zn. B.V. and which if either is the correct colour for this company.
Use maginfier facility for better view.
Bill


----------



## SN21

the irvin trawlers here in north shields were black with two thin red bands 
and the purdy trawlers were black and had a narrow white band.


----------



## billblow

SN21
Thanks for your input.
Do you know if the main North Shields library has any collection of the older and smaller North Shields fishing companies?
Billblow


----------



## billblow

Two items.
1/ have now come across a possible part answer to my AZ query in an owner as AZ Ocean Fisheries 11 BV s'Gravenhage which I think is tied in some way to Visserij Maatschappij W.van der Zwan ? Any comment 
2/ I have been sent a copy of a coloured painting of the Hull trawler Quantock and my query is that the painting distinctly shows the port reg no as H 371. Now Hull Trawler net says pre war H321 owner W. B. Wiley & Son Hull and after the war in 1945 H161 owner East Riding Steam Fishing Co Ltd Hull managed by Hudson Bros. 1946 owned by Hudson Bros same port reg no but R/N Cape Barfleur.
Can some one tell me the what was the correct pre war port reg no ?
Billblow


----------



## billblow

*pic of PRN*

I have decided to send a cut section of the picture of the Quantock query so you will know it's not my poor old eyes playing up.
Billblow


----------



## osta

hi 1937 olsens quantock h 321


----------



## billblow

Osta thanks
pity is if the artist couldn't get the PRN right did he get the funnel right which by the way is a "yellowy" orange with broad white band and black cap.
I would guess it represents the pre war owner W. B. Wiley & Son as the PRN only one didgit out and nothing like the post war PRN.
Billblow


----------



## billblow

*Othello / Cassio*

There appears on the gallery photo's of the Hull stern trawlers Othello and Cassio with the funnel livery shown in the thumbnail. My query is this, is what appears red actually red or is it a querk of the photo colouring and should it appear the Hellyer yellow ? and was the registered owning company Associated Fisheries Ltd or Hellyer Bros ?
Please use the magnifying tool for best view
Bill


----------



## mvprincessanne

Hi,have you had a look at a site called the bosuns watch.Its mostly fleetwood boats but the list of trawlers ,build,company colours.Hope its of help


----------



## gil mayes

Bill
If you look at the photograph of ORSINO (H410)in Mike Thompson's "Hull & Grimsby Stern Trawling Fleet 1961-88" the colour is an odd dirty red, nowhere near red as the light box and ensign. Not a true red but also not a yellow. No help.
Gil.


----------



## billblow

mvprincessanne
Thanks for the thought, I had a hand in the Fleetwood funnels so did know about them. Also had a hand in the funnels on Barry Johnson's wonderful Milford Trawlers site, but don't hesitate in the future to contact me if you think you have anything that may be of use to me.
Gil,
Again Gil thanks for your input, it sounds a yukky colour but I don't have the book at hand, will have have to see if one going cheap on e-bay.
Received 6 coloured plates containing 72 old Dutch funnels from Jan H this morning with the small problem of no names to them so a fair bit of detective work needed to make total sense of them by the use of b/w pics plus vessels history. Should keep me off the streets for a few nights.
Bill


----------



## billblow

*owners ?*

The thumbnail depicts four of the more "exotic" of the previously mentioned coloured funnel liveries of the Nederlands without an index that I have re-drawn. Jan H is endeavouring to find the index from wherever but perhaps because these are readily recognisable on a b/w pic some SN member will have seen them on a photograph in their collection or elsewhere. Long shot maybe we will see but seeing that we are working at a distance of 100 years ago finding any and recording any is a long shot.
Use magnifier tool for best view
Thanks
Billblow


----------



## billblow

*F & T Ross Hull*

Both early Olsens and Lloyds show the F & T Ross funnel livery with a red "R" and much later Michael Thompson's Hull Side-Fishing Trawler Fleet 1946-86 shows a black "R"
I don't at this distance doubt that both are correct for their era, so when did the the red "R" turn to a black "R" ?
Bill
use magnifier facility for best view of thumbnail


----------



## billblow

*Scottish Cat Boats !*

These two funnel liveries were taken at Wick by JanH over the Christmas period. It shows there are still modern funnel liveries to be recorded, so keep looking.
Can anybody tell me the registered owners of these two?

Billblow


----------



## Jan H

Sorry Bill for not telling you.
Owner of both vessels: Bremner Fishing Co. Ltd, Wick.
Regards.
Jan.


----------



## garbutt

hi dos any one have the funnel marking of the lowestoft drifters if so may i have a copy best regards nick


----------



## billblow

Nick
I have very few funnel liveries for Lowestoft but am reliably informed that there are very good collections with the Lowestoft Library/Museum service
Billblow


----------



## billblow

*A 513 David Wilson*

Can anyone let me have the registered owner(s) of A 513 David Wilson ?
Thanks 
Billblow


----------



## aavh

Bill,
Olsens 1969 & 1970, has James Wilson Fleetwood. Cannot find her in 1963?
Just found out why she was renamed "David Wilson" in 1968 ex "Admiral Hardy" A.513
Andy


----------



## billblow

Andy
Thanks for that, I was hoping Wilson was going to be one of the names just obtained a very good colour pic of her funnel containing a W
Bill


----------



## billblow

*Ellen*

Are these two funnel liveries "related" to each other ?
I know nothing of either other than the information added with each funnel on the attachment.
Looks to me they could be
Bill


----------



## billblow

*Ellen*

I’ve now found this one in my collection that confirms a connection with the two funnel liveries on the previous attachment.
Still don't know if the vessel named Ellen the same one or two different vessels with same name.
Bill


----------



## 12548

*White with Red!*

Hi Nice Topic this,so am wondering if anyone here would know what Company has this Funnel!
Thanks


----------



## billblow

*Aberdeen Companies*

Masterfrith here is a very small selection of my early Aberdeen companies. There are about 150 companies or styles on my list for Aberdeen but as yet they are all over the place and not so I can zap them all at once. I have to make up these little displays I show from time to time.
I have said before Aberdeen like all ports in the collection has a good show of early companies and a good show of 1950's onwards but is woefully short of companies from 1920 to 1950. Aberdeen also is notorious from the the 50's to the end of fishing for rapid and massive company takeovers and amalgamations which I confess confuses me completely. I would guess you could find photographs of certain trawlers through their life with 5 or 6 different funnel colours shown.
Contact me if you want to see a particular company or have any you would add to the list.
Joller 6. funnel you ask about I would want more detail but would add even with 1800 funnel liveries collected I dont suppose it is a tenth of the total.
Bill


----------



## billblow

The attachment to this posting shows why I feel the work involved in compiling the funnel livery database is worth while, it adds colour to the history of a once great industry.
My thanks to Jan for this one and many thanks to so many for others.
Billblow


----------



## Steve Farrow

Bill,
It was seeing all those colourful funnels years ago that started me thinking about painting them, after all, most of the photographs were in black and white! You are doing a fantastic job for all of us and future generations.

I remember, Tom Wood, who was the local editor of Fishing News telling me when he was a young lad, he would go down dock with his dad who was a customs officer, and sketck and colour the trawler funnels, then paint them in detail on returning home. He gave his collection to the Fishing Heritage Centre with the understanding that they should be on show or at minimum, available to the general public. As far as I can gather, this never happened ( Allegedly)
He is not very happy!

Steve


----------



## billblow

Steve
A little while back I visited the Fishing Heritage Centre to enquire if I could see any of the paintings of trawlers that the Town owns and was told that the only paintings hanging was a exhibition of Henri Matisse’s blue period or some such thing needless to say I went ape with the poor soul who told me. I could not believe a Fishing Heritage Centre would have an exhibition of a French impressionist painter and no paintings of the town fishing heritage it was suppose to represent.
I understand they are now stored on an industrial estate somewhere around the town, a lot of bloody good that is.
Bill


----------



## MASTERFRITH

Like a lot of other things Bill, people like yourself and many other lads ie model makers,artists, photograph collecters that are keeping old of the past in their own way so other people younger than use can see how things where in the old days,and i might say from my own experience the people that have seen my photos of old trawlers and said these are fantastic.You think the time we spend collecting and doing these hobbies,i know we enjoy it but what is going to happen to our collections when we are gone if their is nobody willing to display them, and for them to be locked away in a store room some where or even destroyed.I have a collection of about 7000 photos of fishing vessels and 3/4 of them are old trawlers from the late 70's back to the end of the 19 century,a long time collecting about 40 years in all.

Tony.


----------



## gil mayes

Make them available Tony. We are still short of photographs for many of the vessels on the Fleetwood, Milford and Granton/Leith websites. They will be duly credited and protected as necessary by our watermark.
Gil.


----------



## Steve Farrow

I have had some 'Issues' with the Fishing Heritage Centre (council owned of course). On the opening of this long awaited building, an art exhibition was provided by the well known political cartoonist and satirist, Gerald Scarf. As excellent as he is, I think the general public wanted and rightly expected at least something with a fishing theme. At the same time, many fine works of marine art were stood randomly against the uncontrolled environment of the Welholme Galleries, a one time church and I believe quite a few of these suffered damage through damp conditions.
The Doughty collection of ship models that was bequeathed to the town, (Grimsby), still has no permanant display home, and I wonder what happened to those fine models? As Bill remarks, probably in a store on an industrial estate!
My photos will probably go to the library here........they do an excellent job.

Steve


----------



## gkh151

Hi to All,

I agree with Steve and Billblow on their points about the Fishing heritage centre and their displays. I remember as a lad going to the Doughty Museum and seeing some of the models Steve mentioned and I always used to think the detail in them to be fantastic. They must be worth a fortune today.

I also wonder what happened to the models and pictures at the Nautical School at Lockhill. They could have been used to make a great display at the Heritage centre.

I know Steve is well known in Grimsby for his collection of Photo's and his brilliant paintings ( a gift I wish I had) and I don't blame him when he says they would go to the library. At least they would get the showing they deserve. It Makes you wonder what kind of world we live in when a museum that is supposed to be dedicated to fishing gives it displays to french art and locks the relevant art in a warehouse and probably end up ruined and worthless.

Graham


----------



## MASTERFRITH

I would Gil but not quite sure how i stand with the copyright on them,is their any ships inparticular you are interested in ?

Tony.


----------



## gil mayes

We would be very grateful for your assistance Tony. Perhaps better if you look through the respective sites and see if you have any pics that would fill the gaps. As you are unsure of © this can be cir***vented by reference to your collection; if anyone comes up to claim © we can include them with still your collection or - delete. Please talk, in the case of Fleetwood, with Jim or Alan.
Gil.


----------



## MASTERFRITH

Thanks Gil,have you got a contact email adress that i can get in touch with you if so send me a PM.

Tony.


----------



## gil mayes

I have sent you a PM Tony.
Gil.


----------



## billblow

I think these two attached charts should be used in schools for teaching the alphabet.
Had to go abroad for one or two.
Bill


----------



## davetodd

billblow said:


> I think these two attached charts should be used in schools for teaching the alphabet.
> Had to go abroad for one or two.
> Bill


Excellent work Bill.(Thumb) 
Certainly useful for researchers and educational for many.
Regards
Dave


----------



## gil mayes

Great work once again Bill.
Gil.


----------



## billblow

Dave, Gil
Thank you for your kind replies. 
I like to post something every month or so that is entertaining or interesting but more importantly to keep the subject in members sight in the hope that it may attract an unrecorded funnel either new or old
Bill


----------



## billblow

Is there anyone out there who could name any of the French owners / companies of the funnel liveries shown on the attachment.
In the days of steam French funnels were very colourful and attractive and they appear to have carried the tradition into their modern liveries.
I am still very interested in recording any modern British funnel liveries that may come my way. 
Billblow


----------



## aavh

Wonderful piece of work Bill and extremely colourful


----------



## billblow

This is really one for the Grimmies to hopefully answer.
I am putting funnels on to slightly different templates ready for placing on to a program. 
I would like to add items of interest and dates when in use to at least some of the entries.
I am sure the sequence is correct, so can any one date the useage of these Bacon's funnels and companies more precisely?

Perhaps one for you Dave, you like a good mystery.
Bill


----------



## davetodd

Interesting this one Bill, I'm working on it!
Dave


----------



## billblow

Nice one Dave
I knew you couldn't resist the challenge.
We'll see what you are able to turn up.
Bill


----------



## billblow

I think a little bit of light relief is called for.
So I am taking orders for personalised funnel liveries.
See attachment
billblow


----------



## Steve Farrow

Nice one Bill......always wanted my own funnel colours!!! It will turn a few heads on my Nissan!

Toot Toot.

Steve


----------



## davetodd

billblow said:


> I think a little bit of light relief is called for.
> So I am taking orders for personalised funnel liveries.
> See attachment
> billblow


Excellent Bill.
And a clean exhaust. Must be using Anthracite! That proves it's pure fiction, Trawler Owners might have charged for Anthracite, but never supplied it(EEK) 
Regards
Dave


----------



## aavh

Excellent as always. Will have find a space for it on the Granton trawler website.


----------



## mattarosa

Bill
I think my funnel looks very fetching, thank you. All I need now is a trawler to put it on.

Hilary


----------



## billblow

Hilary
Don't we all
Bill


----------



## gil mayes

Well done Bill.
Gil.


----------



## Paul_Lee

Perhaps the mods can move this if it is in the wrong place....? I've put a large scan (please be patient!) of some ships funnels and flags on my website http://www.paullee.com/titanic/funnels.php


----------



## mattarosa

Bill
I am pretty sure you will have seen these before, but I just came across them and thought I would attach them here just in case they were of any use.

Hilary


----------



## billblow

Hilary
Thanks for the posting.
I have not actually seen that coloured plate before but the funnels themselves are known to me and I see the R in the F. & T. Ross funnel is again shown as red and not black as in some depictions of their funnel.
Bill


----------



## billblow

*Old French*

While they valiantly wrestle with the gallery here is some thing to look at, a few old French funnels and flags
billblow


----------



## davetodd

Tres bon mon pot.
C'est magnifique.


----------



## gil mayes

Very good Bill, keep them coming.
Gil.


----------



## billblow

Still they struggle with the gallery so more funnels and flags to look at.
This time German from the same period as the previous French ones, that is to say pre WW1.
Interesting to note the distinct lack of colour in the funnels compared to the French funnels of the period, neighbours but very different people.
billblow


----------



## gil mayes

Probably being practical Bill.
Gil.


----------



## PeterDD

Hi All,

This is off your thread, a bit, but is about funnel markings. Please can anyone say which company has a polar bear on the funnel?

Thank you.
Peter


----------



## davetodd

Hello Peter
That would be the trawler Freyr.RE1
An Iceladic fishing vessel which later became the Ross Revenge and subsequently Radio Caroline.
Regards
Dave

http://www.radiowaves.org.uk/ross/freyr-funnel2.jpg


----------



## billblow

Dave
Your correct
See attachment but don't know owners name
Bill
Dave it wasn't until after I sent this I spotted your link
Bill


----------



## PeterDD

Dave,

Thank you very much for your information. Unfortunately I appear not to have realised that the funnel markings in this thread are for fishing vessels.
The reason for my query was that my brother saw a large vessel sailing out of the Humber last week and, though he could not see the name, saw that it had a polar bear on the funnel. I thought it might be one of "ICE ...." names. Looked at some pictures of these but none showed the funnels!

Anyway, very interesting about the vessel that became Radio Caroline.
Thank you for taking the time to reply.

Peter


----------



## davetodd

No problem Peter, at least it prompted me to check the Lloyd's Register for the FREYR.
This will help Bill Blow with his funnel archives!
FREYR Call sign TFXO 987 gt 341 nt 
built 1960 by A.G. "Weser" Seebeck Germany.
Oil Engine N.V.Werkspoor 4SA 10 Cyl. 390x680 mm through hydraulic coupling to controlable pitch propellor.
Class+100A1 Strengthened for navigation in ice.
L273'11" B34'122 D16'10"
Owner Isbjornn H/F Reykjavik.
The entry in the Lloyds register for 1962 did not give an official number, however, the Ross Revenge was issued with the number 304794. probably in 1963 when she was purchased by the Ross Group.
Regards
Dave
p.s. Regarding the vessel your brother saw in the Humber recently, perhaps Steve Woodward can help?


----------



## billblow

I have the funnel livery of PD 337 SHALIMAR but would like to know who the owner was on the 23rd October 1961.
I have in Olsen 1963 Caledonian Fish Selling & Marine Sales Ltd Peterhead but nothing earlier.
billblow


----------



## gkh151

Hi Billblow.

http://www.coasters-remembered.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2844


Found this link on another website.

Shalimar is metioned with 4 different registrations there are also some images. Maybe it will be some use to you.

Regards.

Graham


----------



## billblow

Graham
Thanks for the link but it does not unfortunately answer my original question
billblow


----------



## davetodd

billblow said:


> I have the funnel livery of PD 337 SHALIMAR but would like to know who the owner was on the 23rd October 1961.
> I have in Olsen 1963 Caledonian Fish Selling & Marine Sales Ltd Peterhead but nothing earlier.
> billblow


bill
1961 Olsen's has owner of Shalimar PD337 as Caledonian Fish Sales and Marine Sales Co.Ltd. and others of Petehead.
1964 Olsen's has owner of Shalimar PD337 as Caledonian Fish Selling and Marine Stores Co.Ltd. and others of Peterhead.
A slight change in the name of their operating title.
Wonder why.
Dave
p.s Shalimar does not appear in the 1954 or 1960 editions of Olsen's Almanac.
Do you know when she was built?


----------



## billblow

Can anyone tell me what the red symbol in the centre of the flag for the Stroud's Steam Fishing Co. Ltd. Aberdeen should be?
billblow


----------



## aavh

Bill, 1961 Olsen's has Caledonian Fish Sales and Marine Sales Co.Ltd. and others Peterhead.

Andy


----------



## billblow

*Stars*

A little while since I posted a few funnels so a small collection of funnel liveries that contain a star.
One or two of these have come from old paintings so keep your eyes open and think of me if you see an old painting somewhere.
Bill


----------



## mattarosa

billblow said:


> A little while since I posted a few funnels so a small collection of funnel liveries that contain a star.
> One or two of these have come from old paintings so keep your eyes open and think of me if you see an old painting somewhere.
> Bill


Hi Bill
It is good to see you are still at work, preserving knowledge of funnel liveries. I haven't had much time to post on SN lately, but I still look in regularly. We have all been a bit quiet, so hope that means everyone is having a good summer.

Hilary


----------



## billblow

Hello Hilary
My comment about the "pier head" paintings as a source of early funnels takes me to Scarborough next week to look at 2 or 3 I have had located for me.
Fairly obscure companies like the Dogger Bank Steam Trawling Co. for which this is the only way of obtaining the colours although a b/w photograph of that companies vessels allows you to get the true "pattern" of the marking, band widths etc.
There must still be quite a few of these paintings in pubs, clubs, and houses that the details could be passed onto me.
Bill


----------



## billblow

Can some one tell me the owners both from FR 119 Falcon
billblow


----------



## caswell

billblow said:


> I am collecting and recording fishing company funnel markings before they get forgotten and before those who can remember them slip their moorings. I have a good number for the Humber ports but am thin on other ports. Perhaps SN members could tell me if their ports are well recorded and in their local libraries etc. If not could SN members pass on to me information they remember with as much detail as possible added ( name of company colours , broad band, narrow band 5 or 6 pointed star etc). Many of the fishing companies disappeared just prior to universal colour photography so that many trawler photo's show funnel markings but in black and white. There are on this site and else where many such photo's of vessels where this information could be provided by those who know.
> 
> Bill Blow


 Billblow Consolidated Fisheries Swansea. All " #### Castle"

Funnel Black top narrow white band White castle (Castle same as chess castle) on black.

Best wishes Caswell. ( one was called Caswell Castle).


----------



## billblow

Caswell
Many thanks for that, if any more come to mind please let me know
regards
billblow


----------



## Alan Duggan

Hello Bill, i dont know if you have come across this. http://library.mysticseaport.org/initiative/ImPage.cfm?BibID=11061&ChapterId=4


----------



## billblow

Hello Alan
Yes I have come across it but thank you of thinking about me.
It is very difficult to find funnels in colour as early as this. The other major source are the coloured plates that were in the front of some early Olsen's.
A third smaller source are the pierhead artists offerings that were done for a pound or two for a proud owner or new skipper.(now sell for a bomb)
One point where Olsens and Lloyds show the same company they do not always show a similar funnel some only slightly different but some totally different.
Alan again thank you.
Bill


----------



## Alan Duggan

There are also a few things on ebay, again i do not know if they are of any use, http://shop.ebay.co.uk/?_from=R40&_...3&_nkw=funnel+cards&_sacat=See-All-Categories

Alan


----------



## raf1387

Can anyone help with funnel colours for the Eton St.Tr.Co. of Hull. I have a B/W pic showing an 'E' inside a diamond. The funnel appears to be black top, white bottom.


----------



## billblow

raf 1387
as you say black smoke top and white funnel. The diamond outline and letter E are blue
billblow


----------



## cueball44

Can anyone tell me if the S.T Varanis GY 511 had any sisterships?. 'cueball44'


----------



## billblow

cueball44
can't really see any in Cox that fit the bill for that owner by Cochranes of Selby for around 1909-1910. The Lombard GY 478 launched 3 months earlier for the Lindsey S.F.C.Ltd. (Varanis was Arctic S.F.C.Ltd) both Bacon companies, has all her measurements too different to be called a sister ship I reckon.
Lets see what others come up with.
billblow


----------



## cueball44

billblow said:


> cueball44
> can't really see any in Cox that fit the bill for that owner by Cochranes of Selby for around 1909-1910. The Lombard GY 478 launched 3 months earlier for the Lindsey S.F.C.Ltd. (Varanis was Arctic S.F.C.Ltd) both Bacon companies, has all her measurements too different to be called a sister ship I reckon.
> Lets see what others come up with.
> billblow


Apparently the S.T Varanis was used in mine-sweeping/barrage balloon duties during WW2. PS Does anyone know if that is correct?. 'cueball44'


----------



## gil mayes

Yes cueball44. In WW2 VARANIS (127853) was requisitioned on 4.12.1944 for war service as a minesweeper (Hire rate £64.10.0d/month). From 26.11.1944 she was employed on the balloon barrage (Newton, Tottle & Wilson, managers) and from 24.5.1945 to her return to owner (Arctic Steam Fishing Co Ltd) on 3.11.1945, she was laid up.
Gil.


----------



## cueball44

gil mayes said:


> Yes cueball44. In WW2 VARANIS (127853) was requisitioned on 4.12.1944 for war service as a minesweeper (Hire rate £64.10.0d/month). From 26.11.1944 she was employed on the balloon barrage (Newton, Tottle & Wilson, managers) and from 24.5.1945 to her return to owner (Arctic Steam Fishing Co Ltd) on 3.11.1945, she was laid up.
> Gil.


Thanks for that, my father was master of the ''S.T.Varanis'' from 10-1-1945 to 2-4-1945. 'cueball44'


----------



## gil mayes

Of course cueball44, that should have been requisitioned 4.12.1939 - snow getting to my brain! Could have been that your father paid her off to go into lay up.
Gil.


----------



## cueball44

gil mayes said:


> Of course cueball44, that should have been requisitioned 4.12.1939 - snow getting to my brain! Could have been that your father paid her off to go into lay up.
> Gil.


I am slowly getting bits together in finding out what he was up to in the war years, i still can't find a pic of the ''S.T.Varanis'', thanks anyway. 'cueball44.


----------



## billblow

cueball44
I have a pic of Varanis, fairly poor quality I think out of our newspaper.
Sorry can't post it as I have some sort of log jam on my postings and can't clear it.
I would think think Steve Farrow your man, he has a goodly supply.
Also Dave Todds lisy of GY library trawler photographs shows they have some for sure.
regards
billblow


----------



## cueball44

billblow said:


> cueball44
> I have a pic of Varanis, fairly poor quality I think out of our newspaper.
> Sorry can't post it as I have some sort of log jam on my postings and can't clear it.
> I would think think Steve Farrow your man, he has a goodly supply.
> Also Dave Todds lisy of GY library trawler photographs shows they have some for sure.
> regards
> billblow


Thanks, i shall wait and see if anything comes up. cueball44'


----------



## Steve Farrow

I've just posted a photo of the VARANIS in the Gallery.

Steve


----------



## cueball44

Steve Farrow said:


> I've just posted a photo of the VARANIS in the Gallery.
> 
> Steve


Thanks Steve, it is very good, i am chuffed now and will be able to show my sisters the photo of the ''Varanis''.(Thumb) 'cueball44'


----------



## billblow

T. Baskcomb of Grimsby interest in birds of the feathered variety led him to name his vessels after birds and to record the bird into the funnel livery for that vessel.
A small selection are shown on the attachment.
billblow


----------



## MASTERFRITH

billblow said:


> T. Baskcomb of Grimsby interest in birds of the feathered variety led him to name his vessels after birds and to record the bird into the funnel livery for that vessel.
> A small selection are shown on the attachment.
> billblow


Very interesting Bill.


----------



## billblow

MASTERFRITH
William H.Burns of Aberdeen in the early 1900's went down a similar road.
His vessels were named after breeds of dogs and he had the head of the dog depicted on an all black funnel.
A 34 Terrier, A 133 Setter, A 666 Retriever, A 57 Pointer.
And of course a few others had individual funnel liveries for each vessel owned based around a common theme or colour, but mostly just by carrying the initial letter of the vessels name on the funnel.
Bill


----------



## mattarosa

billblow said:


> T. Baskcomb of Grimsby interest in birds of the feathered variety led him to name his vessels after birds and to record the bird into the funnel livery for that vessel.
> A small selection are shown on the attachment.
> billblow


They are lovely, Bill. I didn't realise trawlers could have individual funnels, it's a nice idea.


----------



## billblow

Thanks Hilary
When you see the names of some of the most obscure bird names that you can imagine I wonder how good the depiction of them was.
Not for him the common sparrow, wren etc would you know a Corythax, Houbara, Jacamar or Courser, and more no niether would I. 
I would guess they had a template of some kind to paint around.
Bill


----------



## Susan Smith

Bill, as far as I'm aware the Bon Accord Steam Fishing Company was not a subsidiary of Walkers, but one of four fishing companies owned by my husband's family (smith), which had links with the Loch Fishing Company Hull Lltd, and the Kingston Fishing Company. I don't know when it was formed, but it was liquidated in 1939 and the share capital transferred to Malcolm Smith Ltd. Unfortunately, we don't have any pictures of any of the Bon Accord Steam Fishing Company's vessels. 

all the best, susan


----------



## billblow

Susan
Thank you for that info.
I find Aberdeen companies and subsidiaries very confusing as it is a port which doesn't seem to have anyone who you can call a knowledgeable enthusiast able to put me on the right lines when I err.
I have recorded funnels and indications of a tie between Loch Line Steam Trawling & Fishing Co, Empire Steam Fishing Co, White Star Fishing Co, Standard Fishing Co. and I think the Caledonian Fishing Co. 
All of these I assume pre 1939 had black funnels with a white star in which there were various but relevant capital letters usually in red.
The early Bon Accord Steam Fishing Co I have recorded is the same black funnel white star with a red B in it.
Any help would be very gratefully received.
Bill


----------



## Susan Smith

How right you are Bill - no one person in aberdeen seems particuraly interested in the history of the fishing industry - there's nothing much in the reference department of the main library or even the maritime museum. They do have records of the Aberdeen Steam Fishing Vessels Owners association for the period we're interested in and I hope to go in there before too long to see if it throws any light on when the companies were formed. Everything I know so far is gleaned from my huband's grandfather's ledger, recording share purchases, inheritance and dividends. The ledger starts in 1926, and he acquired some shares then, but the companies would have been on the go before then as Aberdeen ship builders built several ships for them before that and several were requisitioned for War Service 1914 - 1918.The Empire, Bon-Accord, White Star and Loch Line Companies were all liquidated in 1939, and share capital "converted" into Malcolm Smith Ltd - the "Loch" names were all kept. There's nothing in his ledger about the Caledonian Company, but the national archives site says it was set up in Aberdeen in the early 1930s. Another possible source is papers of a family memeber who was invovled in the companies at the time, and who never threw anything away.

I guess the details of the funnel markings you've kindly drawn my attention to are on your database
all the best, Susan


----------



## billblow

Richard John Burton said:


> Stanley Rowden Ramsgate steam trawlers had black funnels with a wide red
> band which was fitted a sheet metal blue flag with a white border in the centre of the flag was a white five pointed star


Barry
I was given this info for a Stanley Rowden funnel livery but having looked on your site the pic does not appear to match the info given.
Bill


----------



## osta

hi update to LOCH INVER 1930 sold to Hellyer bros hull H 195 then to Caledonian fg co ltd hull

osta


----------



## Susan Smith

thnks for this latest update, Bill - haven't had time to go to the Maritime museum to see what ( if anything) they've got on aberdeen trawlers.
susan


----------



## billblow

*Cod War Funnel*

I am sure I read somewhere that during various Cod Wars the company funnel livery was painted out and replaced with a plain white funnel to confuse the Icelandic gunboats.
If in fact it did happen can anyone point me in the direction of a photograph in which the company funnel livery is painted out and just a plain "white" colour in it's place.
If no photograph forth coming can anyone confirm this ploy?
Billblow.


----------



## osta

hi yes they did i have one or two with funnels painted over original colors 
ost


----------



## Steve Farrow

billblow said:


> I am sure I read somewhere that during various Cod Wars the company funnel livery was painted out and replaced with a plain white funnel to confuse the Icelandic gunboats.
> If in fact it did happen can anyone point me in the direction of a photograph in which the company funnel livery is painted out and just a plain "white" colour in it's place.
> If no photograph forth coming can anyone confirm this ploy?
> Billblow.


Hi Bill,

Yes I can confirm that painting out the funnel colours during the cod wars definately took place so as to confuse the Icelandic gun-boats! Getting hold of photos is another matter! I'll see what I can find! Here is one of the Northern Chief aground off the North Wall.

Regards

Steve


----------



## trotterdotpom

Missed the tide big time, Steve!

John T


----------



## Cisco

Nope... just dried out for a scrub.....


----------



## billblow

Osta / Steve thanks for the help, confirmation and photo.
I shall add a painted out funnel to each of the major ports as you can see researchers in the future trying to make out why a "white" funnel on a Northern boat or the funnel on the Wyre vessel that Osta posted on the gallery.
thanks.
Bill


----------



## Steve Farrow

trotterdotpom said:


> Missed the tide big time, Steve!
> 
> John T


She tried to make the lock pits on a fast ebbing tide......failed!

Cheers

Steve


----------



## Charlie Lister

billblow, favor required please, have you the funnel livery of *LORD LINE*, Hull. I am making a model of* Lord Lister H484* and wish to make all the detail authentic. This would be prior to the amalgamation with BUT. Many thanks your Aye Charlie.


----------



## Charlie Lister

*Interesting one this?*

Bill Blow, found this one from Milford Haven, political correct until 1939 I think. Funnel livery for Richie and Davis.


----------



## billblow

Charlie
I did answer your question elsewhere but we seem to be together now.
Funnel for The Yorkshire Steam Fishing Co. Ltd. Hull.
Black smoke cap, yellow or more likely buff funnel.
House flag white with a blue narrow border and a red saltaire. White staff.
This is for the photograph you posted against.
If you want Lord Line then black cap red funnel with a broad white band
Charlie don't think Lord Lister H 484 ever Lord Line !
The swastika used as you say until not the done thing. Have it at Milford, Grimsby and Aberdeen when it was just a good luck symbol.
Bill


----------



## gil mayes

LORD LISTER (133402)(H484) was Cochrane (530) built 1912 for The Yorkshire Steam Fishing Co Ltd, Hull (John McCann, manager) as Bill states, never Lord Line.
Gil.


----------



## Charlie Lister

Thanks Bill, Yorkshire Steam Fishing Co Ltd it is then, do not know why I thought it was Lord Line, possibly because I sailed on Lord line ships when they were BUT and all their ships had the Lord titles, I should not assume the obvious. Ones again thanks Bill, Yours Aye Charlie.


----------



## Charlie Lister

Thanks Gil, for the steer in the right direction, much appreciated, Yours Aye Charlie.


----------



## cueball44

Charlie Lister said:


> Thanks Bill, Yorkshire Steam Fishing Co Ltd it is then, do not know why I thought it was Lord Line, possibly because I sailed on Lord line ships when they were BUT and all their ships had the Lord titles, I should not assume the obvious. Ones again thanks Bill, Yours Aye Charlie.


Lord Lister H484 became the Lord Lister FD157. I have just viewed a photo of it, it looks like it had a black smoke top then another colour (which i think would be red) with a saltaire on the side. She ended her days named Santa Teresinha. She foundered.


----------



## gil mayes

Full history profile of LORD LISTER at www.fleetwood-trawlers.info ... and many more.
Gil.


----------



## Farmer John

I visited the Museum in Pannett Park, Whitby today (and what a fantastic museum it is, many many ship models and an assortment of other things), and in one of the cases they have one of the cards you have seen already, but I am not sure which one or if it is a further one. The museum has a small staff, and they seem exceptionally helpful, perhaps a phone cal could check if the card they have is one you have (or if you live anywhere in that area, go, you won't regret it.

You should be able to get a phone number from the site for Whitby Tourist Information.


----------



## billblow

Thanks Farmer John, I and others contributing to the funnel database do visit as many fishing museums and art gallaries as we can and as you say always very helpful staff and always an enjoyable experience.
billblow


----------



## Farmer John

billblow said:


> Thanks Farmer John, I and others contributing to the funnel database do visit as many fishing museums and art gallaries as we can and as you say always very helpful staff and always an enjoyable experience.
> billblow


Well, there is another (inexperienced but alerted) pair of eyes working at it now.


----------



## gil mayes

Thank you, Farmer John. I am sure that Bill will welcome any input that you can provide to add material to his excellent Fishing Vessel Owners' Funnel & Houseflag database. 
Gil.


----------



## 44mlb

I am looking to identify the trawler company which used the funnel marking shown in the two photos below, also the colours used on the markings.

The photo must have been taken between 1922 and 1940 when the trawler sunk. The photos were taken at Ramsgate when the trawler was in for repairs, which were carried out by Claxton & Co. Ltd.

The funnel is from the trawler H963 Iago. 
Built 1907

Known to be owned by:
Ellis Steam Trawling Co., Ltd.
1940 ~ 1940
Torbay Trawlers Ltd.
1936 ~ 1940
Ocean Steam Fishing Co. Ltd.
1928 ~ 1936
Iago Steam Trawling Co. Ltd. (E. D. W. Lawford)
1920 ~ 1928
Great Northern Steam Fishing Co. - Curzon Charles
1918 ~ 1920
British Royal Navy - Admiralty - RN
HMT Iago (FY1364)
1915 ~ 1919
Hull Northern Fishing Co. Ltd. - Hellyer Bros Ltd. - Hellyer Steam Fishing Co. Ltd.
1907 ~ 1915
(before the photos were taken)


----------



## billblow

44mlb
The funnel marking is for the Ocean Steam Fishing Co. Ltd. Hull
billblow


----------



## billblow

44mlb
Sorry I see you want the colours
Black cap
Light grey funnel
Blue flag with white saltire diagonals
Red central O
billblow


----------



## 44mlb

billblow said:


> 44mlb
> Sorry I see you want the colours
> Black cap
> Light grey funnel
> Blue flag with white saltire diagonals
> Red central O
> billblow


Many thanks billblow.
I will try and make a graphic from your description and post it here.


----------



## 44mlb

Hi billblow,
Finally got round to doing graphic of the funnel.
Do the colours look correct?
Clive


----------



## billblow

Clive,
Yes colours correct and the whole graphic looks great.
Much more professional than mine do.
One minor point is my personal preference for the funnel to be shown "full length".
Bill


----------



## 44mlb

Hi Bill,
Many thanks.
I realise it looks a bit strange length wise but it is for my web site at www.claxtonhistory.co.uk and as most of the vessel are tugs, I had to standardise them to fit how most of the boats looked.
Thanks again for your kind help.
Clive.


----------



## 12548

Any ideas on a Funnel 

Amber (or light Yellow) with thin Black Top and letters N H on the funnel!
Thanks


----------



## potenkin

Please, could someone help me to identify by the funnel tag, the ship that appears in this photo ?, or the company to which it belonged ?, This ship was scrapped at Gandía scrapping dock (Valencia-Spain) around the year 1978. Thanks very much.


----------

