# Lifeboat transceivers



## Paul Braxton

Just reading a post about the "Gothic" fire, in which it was stated that the Mimco man managed to get to the boat radio and used it to alert somebody about the fire. This got me thinking back to the day I decided to really get to grips with the yellow Marconi "Survivor", I believe it was called, the one with the hand crank and MF 500 khz plus 2182 R/T. I think the earlier model, which was as far as I remember now, cylindrical in shape, only had MF 500khz and no R/T, but I may be wrong there. By the end of the '70's the newer type was a sort of much smaller, more compact and lighter set altogether, housed in a long cube shaped cover with a completely removable lid and a telescopic antenna or mast as well as a wire aerial.

I was on either the "Mayfield" or "Laurentic" (Shaw Savill), crossing the South Pacific, bound either to or from NZ/Panama. A boat/fire drill was notified for one afternoon, so I got the lifeboat transceiver set up properly on the monkey island that morning, intending to do a demo for the crew, which idea went down really well with the Old Man. To set it up I made sure I followed the instructions to the letter and got a good earth using the integral long wire and spool, as well as a good rig for the wire antenna. All was ready for the demo later that day.

I was in MF contact with another ship of the company at the time. We were both on virtually the same course, he being within bridge VHF range, and burning my ears on 500khz, though he wasn't within visual range. I suspect that he probably was no more than some 30 miles off, perhaps, I can't recall now, but I do know that he was so close that it seemed a doddle to contact him even on the low powered lifeboat set.

We set up a sked time for the demo with the crew and at the end of the boat drill everyone trooped up there and we got it going with me doing a great job telling them all how they would have to handle things in the event I was out of action in a real distress situation. We got the set powered up, lots of energy going in to the hand crank and I could hear the other ship booming in on the 'phones, listening out for us. Unfortunately he didn't hear as much as a squeak out of us! Not a sausage. 

This was a bit disconcerting, to say the least, and not to say embarrassing. As far as I could see I had done everything right, there was no obvious fault with the equipment, but that test really made me wonder about how we would have got on had it been for real, in a boat, with a much poorer aerial.

I wonder if anyone else has similar (or worse) recollections?

In a somewhat similar vein is the old one about the MF tx not loading up very well in storm conditions when the tx aerial leadout insulators were coated in spray and salt. At such times you could usually get some sort of output, but the only way to restore normality was to get out there, lean over the edge of the monkey island and manually clean the encrusted salt off the insulators, using fresh water, obviously. 

These conditions happened occasionally, and every time they did I wondered just how badly the output signal was being affected, what range reduction on 500 khz there may have been. Could we have got a decent distress signal out I wondered? Sometimes, if I remember correctly, the transmitter loading characteristics were so bad it was then probably impossible to get the tx tuned at all on MF, using the lower powered sets such as Oceanspan VII or Commandant Tx which is all I ever sailed with (apart from a Crusader on my first trip).

In those days you were more or less on your own. I virtually never met another R/O to discuss this and other anomalies with, so I have no idea how others met with or got round problems like these. Interesting, in hind sight, to see what others may have to say.

Seems to me the only way out of the second problem would've been to have fitted a cover of some sort to prevent the insulators becoming coated like that. Probably something along these lines was routine, but not on the ships I sailed on. 

As far as getting key crew members familiarised with how to use the radio gear in an emergency, (again obviously with the R/O out of action), I did a bit better. Showed them how to tune the tx, etc, use the AKD and emergency tx and so forth. All quite interesting. Most of the mates were singularly disinterested but I found the deck cadets were usually well up for it and some got really interested for its own sake.


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## holland25

I seem to remember the Salvita during my time with Blue Flu,57 to 60. It was the practice, once a trip, to go away with it in a lifeboat and when a distance off contact the ship and get the "come back signal",it always seemed to do the job.The guys cranking were happy if you didn't take too long over it.


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## Tony Selman

I am sure one of the ex Mimco experts on here will have some details on how far you should be able to transmit with a lifeboat transmitter. Rather like Paul I would have thought you could have managed 30 miles with a well set up system on the monkey island as opposed to the less than ideal conditions in a boat. Similar to R651400 when I was a 2R/O I was despatched in the motor boat during a lengthy spell at anchor outside Colombo in 1964. I don't think we went as far as over the horizon but we went some distance and with all the ships there would not have been a clear line of sight. I managed to raise the 'mother ship' (ss Matra/GZYJ) first call and we returned in high spirits having only broken down once. For the life of me I cannot remember what the equipment was. That ship had a complete Redifon installation from not long after the war so it seems reasonable to assume it was a Redifon lifeboat transceiver but the grey cells can't recall ever having sailed, or even seen, one of them. I am more inclined to believe it was a Marconi cylindrical one but am open to correction there. Another Brock's R/O from the same vintage may remember.


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## John Leary

Hi Tony

The Manaar and I believe the Mahseer had the rectangular Marconi Salvita lifeboat equipment. I cannot swear about the Mahseer but the Manaar certainly had MCW (A3) for 8364 KHz because I have a photograph of myself and the Chota Marconi Sahib (manfully turning the handles) testing the equipment on the hatch of the number three hold with me holding a microphone. I doubt we were transmitting into an antenna so must have been using the dummy load that I believe had some sort of visual indicator that allowed you to confirm the TX was being modulated.

The Marine Radio Manual by Danielson and Mayoh states that the Marconi Salvita 3 had A2 (800Hz) modulation only (presumably for 500 kHz). That being the case the equipment fitted to the Manaar must have been a Mk4 or later. I presume that Matra/Mahseer and Manaar had similar equipments.

I never tested the equipment in a lifeboat but it was common to work 4PB (Colombo) during the time we were unloading/loading in the port.

Thanks to Paul for what is for me a very interesting thread.

Regards to all
John


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## Shipbuilder

When I was 3rd on the _SA Oranje_ in 1968, when we were in Durban, the chief would make sure there was a cloudless sky, blazing sunshine and intense heat and send the 4th and myself onto the deck outside the radio room window with the lifeboat TX. We were not allowed to come back in until we had contacted ZSC on 8mHz. We couldn't cheat, as he was listening inside radio room! We always managed to QSO in the end and I was quite impressed by this, but I always found ZSC to be a very good station to contact anyway.
Bob


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## Tony Selman

Thanks John. I think you are right in that it was a Salvita, I certainly sailed with that several times and also with the R/T version of same. It seems highly likely Matra had the same kit as other members of the class.
As a variation on the theme mentioned by Bob above when I was on Oronsay/GCNB we were doing a RTW trip in 1971 called Around the World in 80 Days, which as it happens it was. P&O passenger vessels at that time had a covered lifeboat fitted with a permanent radio station which was obviously a much grander affair than the ubiquitous yellow handled jobs as described above. We were on passage from Durban to Perth and a couple of days out from Durban for BOT sports 1R/O Jack Gawley despatched me to the boat and told me not to come back until I had contacted Perth/VIP. I went off muttering thinking I had not got a hope in hell of contacting Perth which was still some good distance away on 8Mhz having just recently worked him on the normal radio equipment on 16 Mhz. To my complete amazement after about 3 attempts VIP came back to GCNB1 with a QSA3. Just goes to show that 1R/O's know more than we gave them credit for!


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## Ron Stringer

The Marconi cylindrical lifeboat transceiver with two very sharp and protrusive handles was the _"Salvita"_. As stated above, this only had W/T transmitting capability - 500kHz and 8364kHz and was fitted with a clockwork automatic keying device for sending the Alarm Signal and the Distress Signal. 

The long rectangular set sold by Marconi which additionally carried 2182kHz R/T facilities was the _"Survivor"_ but it was in fact designed and manufactured by Clifford & Snell - I believe their identity for the original was Type 640. I think the later version (Marconi _"Survivor 3"_ was C&C Type 740 but I stand to be corrected on the C&S identities.

My views on all of those portable lifeboat sets (having only used them in fair weather tests, never under real emergency conditions) was that they were provided mainly for morale purposes, since the overall installation configurations that were achievable in a lifeboat were so inefficient as to be almost useless. We used to joke that the DoT were just being humane in that if you were selected to turn the handles, it could be guaranteed that you would quickly suc***b to exhaustion and so avoid the lingering death from sunburn, exposure and dehydration that would be the lot of your fellow survivors. In wartime, under conditions of general radio silence, it might have been possible to alert another vessel on 5000kHz but in peacetime that was most improbable.

Now the fixed lifeboat installations that had to be provided on large passenger ships were quite a different kettle of fish. They ran off lead-acid batteries and contained a transmitter equivalent to the reserve transmitter fitted in the ship's radio room. Because they had a decent power supply and the boat had sufficient space and stability to allow the rigging of a decent wire antennas, you were able to achieve reasonable ranges on MF.

The last version that Marconi produced was the _"Salvare 3"_included the _"Salvor 4"_ solid-state reserve transmitter (410-525kHz W/T, 2182kHz R/T) and the _"Sentinel"_ receiver (150-535kHz, 1.6-30MHz) as well as the electronic _"Autokey 2"_ and battery-charging facilities.

The COSPAS/SARSAT 406MHz EPIRB is a far more reliable means of alerting others in emergency that costs little or no more than "the dustbin with handles" and does not need any skill or effort to set in action but will contact help from anywhere in the world. I would have total confidence in trusting my life to one of those - none at all to the _"Salvita"_.


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## david.hopcroft

I only had experience of the 'yellow cube' IMR version. I never had any problems running it up on deck. On a cargo ship on the bridge wing to be precise I wound the earth round something handy I think. The crew thought it was a piece of cake till I pressed the key !! I called CQ for a test, got an instant QSL, then went back inside to find out that my QSO was 50 miles away. 

On a tanker whilst waiting at anchor off Port Stanvac, the mate put a boat down so I gave it a test for real - a first for me. I raised VIA easily, but don't know how far it was from Port Stanvac to Adelaide. 

David
+

I just looked on Google Earth and found that Port Stanvac to McLaren Vale is only about 15-20 kms
+


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## holland25

R651400 said:


> Sorry to disagree.. Blue Funnel never in my time 56/60 ever had the Marconi Salvita or installed Marconi equipment on their ships post 1954 preferring Redifon for all their new builds.


Alcinous,Glengyle and Ulysses were all Marconi apart from an Eddystone receiver for the passengers,certainly when I sailed on them.


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## trotterdotpom

I recall a circular coming round castigating ROs for using the Lifeboat Transmitters as a foot rest under the desk - apparently it weakened the lid. 

I also recall doing a demonstration of the lifeboat transmitter for the crew on an Australian ship. I showed them how to fire it up and send a distress call, then jokingly said: "..... and every ship within about 50 yards will be able to hear you."

The looks on some of their faces made me quickly realise that they didn't find it funny. Don't forget, these were the blokes who would refuse to sail if there was a loose tile in the galley - I had to do a lot of quick back-pedaling over that! A valuable lesson for me

John T


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## Troppo

trotterdotpom said:


> The looks on some of their faces made me quickly realise that they didn't find it funny. Don't forget, these were the blokes who would refuse to sail if there was a loose tile in the galley - I had to do a lot of quick back-pedaling over that! A valuable lesson for me
> 
> John T


WE ARE GUNNA JACK HER UP, SKIPPER!


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## Troppo

Ron's post is spot on.

Useless bloody things. Trying to rig the antenna in any kind of seaway would have been a nightmare.

ERP would have been about 10 mW....


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## Paul Braxton

From some dim recess of memory I seem to recall one of them had about 3W O/P but I could be wrong. I had completely forgotten they (or some of them) had 8Mhz. The original Salvita was a heavy beast; at least the Survivor was a lot lighter to lug about.

Having read some of these posts I can only assume I either did something wrong with the rig that day or there was a fault on the tx side. I can't remember what happened about it. I guess it would have been included on a Mimco schedule at the next depot, maybe even by AWA in NZ.

The things were always a nightmare to restow after using, especially in bitter cold or wet conditions. 'Orrible things, all up, but I bet they've come in very useful occasionally, and even saved lives. My wife asked me last night why they weren't kept nearer to the boats instead of in the radio room. Good question.

Reckon a good bet would've been to have taken an Aldis lamp into the boat, with a requisite battery of course. They were very clever things and very good at establishing communication with other ships at night, even when the other was just a faint light on the horizon. There was always something quite magical (at least to me, if not the majority of mates) about getting the gear out and calling up a distant light... .- .- .- I always found deck cadets quite keen to use them.


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## bfraser47

holland25 said:


> Alcinous,Glengyle and Ulysses were all Marconi apart from an Eddystone receiver for the passengers,certainly when I sailed on them.


G`day Holland,
I was on Alcinous in`73, we were on a KNSM charter from Amsterdam to the Indonesian coast. Dunno what she was like when you were there, but she was starting to come apart on my trip. Can't really remember the gear but remember it took a lot of maintenance work to keep it going.
Great run shore in Surabaya.
73`s Brian


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## King Ratt

Stowage of lifeboat transceivers in RFA vessels was never in the radio office. I had the occasional experience of going afloat in a lifeboat during Board of Trade with Salvor/Salvita and flashing it up. No probs rigging aerial when sea was as flat as a Jap's face. Fortunately never needed to use one "in anger".


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## holland25

bfraser47 said:


> G`day Holland,
> I was on Alcinous in`73, we were on a KNSM charter from Amsterdam to the Indonesian coast. Dunno what she was like when you were there, but she was starting to come apart on my trip. Can't really remember the gear but remember it took a lot of maintenance work to keep it going.
> Great run shore in Surabaya.
> 73`s Brian


The Alcinous I am referring to was gnvn which became Polydorus in 1961. She was reasonably new in 57.


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## bfraser47

holland25 said:


> The Alcinous I am referring to was gnvn which became Polydorus in 1961. She was reasonably new in 57.


Oops sorry, waaay before my time... and I thought GMSJ was old, wondered about our 3rd Mate, name of Noah


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## cajef

Ron Stringer said:


> Now the fixed lifeboat installations that had to be provided on large passenger ships were quite a different kettle of fish. They ran off lead-acid batteries and contained a transmitter equivalent to the reserve transmitter fitted in the ship's radio room. Because they had a decent power supply and the boat had sufficient space and stability to allow the rigging of a decent wire antennas, you were able to achieve reasonable ranges on MF.


They were installed in two lifeboats on the Empress of Canada, whenever we had a lifeboat drill we had to run them up and do a test with the ships main radio station, we also tried a CQ for test with any other vessels and nearly always got a reply.


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## johnvvc

*Salvita*

I remember being at anchor off either Puerto Barrios or Puerto Cortez. Glorious day so the OM decided to lower the two lifeboats, one had an engine and get in a bit of practice so the two were hitched up and they motored away from the ship. I'd volunteered the 2nd RO for one of the boats while I sat in the Radio Room. All appeared to be going well when suddenly they found one of the lifeboats was leaking like a sieve! They almost had to use the old Salvita for real! 

Someone mentioned earlier just how inefficient these things were. It was a combination of low power and horrendously enefficient antenna of course and I'm glad I never had to use one in anger.

The Salvita's aerial bag was very handy for storing tins of Capstan which I used to send home to my dad - everything has it's uses...


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## sparks69

On joining a ship I asked the R/O where the lifeboat radio was stowed (it was a midships tanker) to which the reply was "Dunno". The person in question had been on the ship for about 6 months. I eventually found it under the desk in the Engineers aft office, being used as a foot rest.
Happy daze !


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## trotterdotpom

sparks69 said:


> On joining a ship I asked the R/O where the lifeboat radio was stowed (it was a midships tanker) to which the reply was "Dunno". The person in question had been on the ship for about 6 months. I eventually found it under the desk in the Engineers aft office, being used as a foot rest.
> Happy daze !


Good job you weren't up for a survey, Chris!

Just remembered a trick in case you got a surveyor who had nothing better to do and he wanted to dunk the transceiver into water to test its waterproofing. A smear of Vaseline round the rubber seal of the lid kept it nice and dry.

John T

PS Have heard back from Mr Mills. Will be in touch.


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## richardwakeley

All the old Blue Funnel hands here, and also onboard when I was a junior, mention the 2nd R/O having to go out in the boat for testing the l/b transceiver. It seems to have gone out of fashion by the time I joined in 1970. I never did - maybe conditions weren't good enough for the drill when I was 2nd on Protesilaus, and for the next several years I was alone with no junior. Did try to test it with nearby ships. Also remember the radio surveyors with their stopwatch out on the clockwork AKD.


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## Bill Greig

Last trip on the "Heythrop/GRYJ"I decided to test the Survivor lifeboat Tx. There was a handy 24vDC output on the radio room desk and a 24vDC input on the Survivor, great I thought, none of that pesky handle cranking. Do you know there is no reverse voltage protection on that unit....I do!!
Bill


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## david.hopcroft

Getting back to the IMR 'Yellow Cube', there was also a cylindrical bag stowed next to the cube which contained a self assembly pole to support the aerial wire stowed next to the cube. It was usually the Stewards assignment at boat stations. 

David
+


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## Troppo

The GMDSS is by NO means perfect, but lifeboat comms have certainly moved on from hand cranked 500 kHz radios, that's for sure...


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## Varley

Surely the lifeboat set was nothing to do with communications. It kept three people's hands busy instead of going off their heads contemplating their fates with nothing to take their minds off it.


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## Wismajorvik

Paul Braxton said:


> From some dim recess of memory I seem to recall one of them had about 3W O/P but I could be wrong. I had completely forgotten they (or some of them) had 8Mhz. The original Salvita was a heavy beast; at least the Survivor was a lot lighter to lug about.
> 
> Having read some of these posts I can only assume I either did something wrong with the rig that day or there was a fault on the tx side. I can't remember what happened about it. I guess it would have been included on a Mimco schedule at the next depot, maybe even by AWA in NZ.
> 
> The things were always a nightmare to restow after using, especially in bitter cold or wet conditions. 'Orrible things, all up, but I bet they've come in very useful occasionally, and even saved lives. My wife asked me last night why they weren't kept nearer to the boats instead of in the radio room. Good question.
> 
> Reckon a good bet would've been to have taken an Aldis lamp into the boat, with a requisite battery of course. They were very clever things and very good at establishing communication with other ships at night, even when the other was just a faint light on the horizon. There was always something quite magical (at least to me, if not the majority of mates) about getting the gear out and calling up a distant light... .- .- .- I always found deck cadets quite keen to use them.


Recollect that the regulations stated that the lifeboat radio must be on the same deck as the lifeboats. Mobil tankers carried two, one aft one amidships due to the fact that tankers had a habit of breaking in two...They were stowed in a box by the lifeboat. Cadets were the best for turning the handles. Never made a contact with one myself and like I others I understood they were useful for introducing items back to the UK, as you could inform customs that the equipment was "sealed" and had to remain so..


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## RayL

I think we had a 'Salvor' on my first ship, the 'Naess Sovereign', in 1965/66. Realising that this yellow box might one day represent our last resort, I took a special interest in it and made sure it was stored in an extremely orderly way - in particular, no tangles in the aerial's support cords.

We did test it once or twice in my time but I can't recall the details. What does stick in my mind, however, is the occasion when I naively asked a passing 'jack the lad' navigation apprentice to please turn the handle whilst I operated the little Morse key. Showing off to his mates, the idiot wound it madly fast and straightaway broke the set! He went off laughing. Later inspection showed that what he had done was break several teeth on the drive sprocket made from a special tough plastic material.

Rather than place a sprocket on order and have no lifeboat radio in the meantime, Captain Mayne decided to revive his old engineering skills and make one himself! His result, though a creditable effort, was far below the quality of the original, so thereafter I never had the same faith in our lifeboat set that I used to have.


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## trotterdotpom

R651400 said:


> Wasn't the Salvor the main station emergency transmitter that took over from Reliance?
> Tested every life-boat transmitter/receiver Blue Funnel thru Freelance and anyone who had the capability of busting the generator crank handles must've been one very strong fellah!


Yes it was, I think he means the "Salvita". 

Correctomundo about the hand cranks - they had a governor to prevent you winding too fast and creating to high a voltage. Wind too fast and they slipped out of gear. Must have been somat wrong with the one mentioned.

John T


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## johnvvc

*Creature from the deep...*

Someone mentioned throwing a Salvita (or something similar) over the side whereupon it promptly disappeared - wonder if this could be the one...

http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?219450-The-world-s-toughest-radio


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## King Ratt

It looks like an old military set similar to what were installed in tanks.


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## chadburn

The old Tank radios were I believe either type 18 or 20 which were very popular with Radio Hams after the War, a small modification and they T&R worldwide. I use to go down to 'Johns Radio' in Leeds who had new ones painted Grey still in their cardboard boxes. Judging by the seal recess the model shown looks though it is built to be watertight.
RBDG.


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## johnvvc

Aha - the jpg wouldn't open for me - kept telling me I needed to register first, so I never saw the picture. 

R651400 - as you say it's obviously not a Salvita, think I had one of those on every ship I sailed on! I read somewhere earlier today that one of the requirements was that an emergency lifeboat set should be portable - makes sense. Thinking back, it was always kept in the Radio Room - well on the ships I sailed on. Dragging it out of the Radio Room and accross the boat deck would be have been a bit of a handful for one person. Maybe with Davy Jones lapping around one's ankles a sudden spurt of energy might suddenly appear! :sweat:

Wouldn't it have made more sense to have it in one of the lifeboats. With lots of the ships then having two lifeboats (or more) having two sets would have made sense - but maybe the tight ****d shipowner might not have been willing to cough up...

Chadburn - I never came across the 18 or 20 set. The 19 set was very popular with hams. I seem to remember it had limited hf coverage and it could be readilly cobbled to cover a couple of the ham bands. It had vhf as well but that was quite a big set.

Maybe someone on here will recognise this one.


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## chadburn

John, I respect your knowledge on the subject and you are most probably correct with the type 19 set, it sounds like the one and readily available in the 1950's at Surplus Shops. My interest at the time and my visits to Johns radio was more to do with a pair of the Walkie Talkie type sets.
RBDG.


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## johnvvc

chadburn said:


> John, I respect your knowledge on the subject and you are most probably correct with the type 19 set, it sounds like the one and readily available in the 1950's at Surplus Shops..RBDG.


My knowledge on these things is pretty limited but a few of my mates had these beasts...

Ah - John's Radio, that brings back memories. I used to get the train up from Anglesey and spend an afternoon there, mooching through boxes. I remember buying an old Class D wavemeter there amongst other things. All the old shops have gone I suspect.


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## chadburn

johnvvc said:


> My knowledge on these things is pretty limited but a few of my mates had these beasts...
> 
> Ah - John's Radio, that brings back memories. I used to get the train up from Anglesey and spend an afternoon there, mooching through boxes. I remember buying an old Class D wavemeter there amongst other things. All the old shops have gone I suspect.


All done via the net these days, surplus radio's like the Clansman Type equipment can be bought via various dealers. I still have an interest in two way radio's (UHF) as we use them on the Eldest Lads Farm. Somewhere in the house I have the instructions for the RAF type Dinghy radio including how to assemble the Box Kite.
RBDG.


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## RayL

trotterdotpom said:


> Yes it was, I think he means the "Salvita".
> 
> Correctomundo about the hand cranks - they had a governor to prevent you winding too fast and creating to high a voltage. Wind too fast and they slipped out of gear. Must have been somat wrong with the one mentioned.
> 
> John T


Thanks for the helpful discussion. All a long time ago for me, of course.

If the IMR 'Solas's case was a yellow plastic box with rounded corners then that's what the one I'm remembering could well have been. The thumbnail picture supplied by R651400 in #37 seems to ring distant bells with me.

Oddly, the set was stored far from the Radio Room, in the aft accommodation of the ship.


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## david.hopcroft

Ref my #10 earlier, I have found this from the 'trip around the bay'. The Mate is in charge with a couple of engineers. The Mobil Astral can be seen behind. No sign of any aerial stays, but I do remember rigging the aerial as it should be. It was a 'first' for me where the boat set was meant for. There was a 'plumb bob' earthing wire that you threw over the side as I remember.

David
+

We had called at Jurong the trip before for some repairs. Looks like one of the engineers got himself a decent camera !!

+


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## trotterdotpom

What's that about fools, firemen and first trippers, David? Good photo though.

John T


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## Ron Stringer

Just to help some memories, the IMR portable lifeboat transceiver was the "_SOLAS_" and not the "_SALVOR_" (which as has been pointed out, was a Marconi reserve ship's W/T transmitter). The Clifford and Snell identity for what Marconi sold as the "_SURVIVOR_" was the type 610 (not 640 as I wrote earlier - memory fading). The "_SURVIVOR_" had a GRP case; the older designs, "_SALVITA_" and "_SOLAS_" had metal cases.

You can see what they looked like: scroll down for "_SOLAS_" (to page 24) and "_SALVITA_" (to page 26)

http://www.fists.co.uk/docs/keynotes/kn0311a5.pdf

For "_SURVIVOR_" go to

http://jproc.ca/britishmarconi/survivor.html


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## RayL

Thanks Ron. I think the set I experienced must have been an IMR 'Solas' although I don't recall it having two winding handles. Perhaps it did have two and I have merely forgotten that detail.

'Naess Sovereign' entered service in 1961, so no doubt it was equipped with the model which was current at that time.


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## RayL

R651400 said:


> I recall Solas case and cover were all-metal with the cover complete with water tight gasket attached to the case by turn-buckles.
> Solas had the capability of transmitting r/t (voice) on 500/2182/8634 kcs as well as morse and considering it's shipboard placement on some of the previous postings not such a bad idea as it could be rigged and operated by any non-radio crew member.


Thanks for this. I guess it shows that I was wrong to think that the set I experienced had a plastic case! I feel sure it must have been a 'Solas'.

Interesting point about non-radio crew being able to operate it, but it did mean that the R/Os would have been put at a disadvantage in a sinking, totally reliant on the main gear in the Radio Room. Eggs and baskets, I suppose.


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## duncs

I find this anti 'portable radio equipment' very strange.
On a plus side, I heard a very weak XXX, good wx, but typhoon in the offing, China sea. A Greek tanker, no power, only the portable wind up radio. I QSP'd a lot of tfc fm SVA(in Greek) via my Span/Mercury/Electra to his wind up radio.
We thought we had a tow job there, but a Dutch tug was eavesdropping, and was soon on the scene.
However, don't knock the wind up radios!


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## Ron Stringer

Duncs,

I confess to being one of the "knockers" and although I would have preferred to be in a lifeboat with a portable lifeboat radio transceiver (PLE) than one which did not have one, I have serious doubts about their real value for communication in emergency conditions following an abandonment. 

I too was able to make contact with other ships from the boat deck using the _"SALVITA"_ during "BoT sports" and I suspect that by connecting it to the ship's main aerial (as no doubt did your Greek friend) it would have had even greater abilities, but there is a world of difference between those conditions and the situation in a lifeboat in a seaway. As the one pressing the Morse key I could have gone on for long periods without effort. The poor sods turning the handles always started cheerfully enough but after a very short time were red-faced and sweating. Not many had the upper-body strength needed to sustain the effort needed, even on a stable platform. To do that whilst being tossed around in an open boat would be something else. And all to produce what could only have been a few milliwatts of ERP.

The hand-cranked set was the best that the vast majority of ships were given (passenger ships with their fixed installations were far better provided for) and arguably better than nothing. That didn't make them good nor beyond improvement. They were not the best available, only the cheapest solution acceptable to the authorities. The more expensive installation fitted on passenger ship motor lifeboats offered a far better solution. (Just as your Greek friend would have been far better off clearing traffic via a working reserve transmitter than the portable lifeboat transceiver). 

We shall never know what proportion of instances of abandonment involved portable sets being taken into a lifeboat in an emergency, which were subsequently correctly rigged and operated but whose signals were never picked up. There have been instances (very few) where such signals were received but the failures seem to have been accepted or gone unnoticed (at least I do not know of any official enquiry into why no radio signals were received from a PLE following an abandonment. There have been many abandonments but few rescues recorded as resulting from, or being assisted by, the reception of alerts or other signals from a hand-cranked PLE in a lifeboat.

As I said, I would sooner trust to today's 406MHz/1.6GHz beacons than any hand-cranked W/T transceiver. Things have progressed and this is one of the positive changes adopted by IMO and rolled out across today's merchant shipping.


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## RayL

Further to my #44 and #50 posts, I now think I understand why the lifeboat set was stored so far from we radio personnel. If the ship broke in two and the central accommodation (and we) went down, the crew in the aft accommodation might still hope to survive and be rescued.


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## Cisco

More upmarket steamers had a fancier bit of kit....
Windsor Castle, PE, 1966. Bob Wilson ('shipbuilder' on SN) was 4/R/O at the time ...dunno if he was in the boat....
Wish I had some pix of the actual radio....


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## Ron Stringer

R651400 said:


> Wouldn't we all if such frequencies and technology were available/attainable ....


Maybe, maybe not. The REOU and others opposed the use of such frequencies and technology throughout the latter part of the 1970s, all of the 1980s and part of the 1990s, insisting that the only way to provide safety for shipping was to retain 500kHz and W/T. Everything possible was done to oppose and then (when that position was lost) delay the introduction of the GMDSS.


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## Troppo

Ron Stringer said:


> Maybe, maybe not. The REOU and others opposed the use of such frequencies and technology throughout the latter part of the 1970s, all of the 1980s and part of the 1990s, insisting that the only way to provide safety for shipping was to retain 500kHz and W/T. Everything possible was done to oppose and then (when that position was lost) delay the introduction of the GMDSS.


...and they are still alive and well in the yahoo Radio Officers email list....


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## King Ratt

I hate to be pedantic but the HF frequency was 8364 Khz.


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## david.hopcroft

Getting back to my #10 & #45, I cannot remember if there was another Solas in the aft accommodation. As this view shows, it was quite a distance from midships to aft. 

David
+


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## Paul Braxton

Going back to my original msg and the inability of my Salvita/Survivor (probably the latter) to reach a ship only a very few miles away and listening out on a quiet South Pacific 500khz, I came to the grim conclusion that in the event of any emergency I would damn well do all I could to get to the radio room and get the gear there on air, even if only the 24V setup. Even taking my life into my own hands if it came to that, to do so. Thank God I never had to do it!

The Salvor TX (in its various and especially later incarnations) was quite a nice TX, even using the integral morse key. The main thing would obviously have been to get the msg out there, no how many times repeated. If the radio gear had been irrevocably lost, due to a fire or something like that, then again, the grim realisation, and it most certainly was a particularly grim thought, was that you were probably toast anyway. I've always liked to keep the "what if" sort of thought processes going, even now. That way you probably wouldn't have had such a debilitating shock as you might otherwise have had, having thought about the worst case and what you would do in the event. 

Someone once told me a true story about an incident that happened to them whilst out driving on a dark, isolated, narrow country road here in NZ many years ago. They came round a bend and their headlights fell on, of all things, a pram right in the middle of the road, blocking the way and with what appeared to have been a baby inside. In a sudden unexpected situation like that you aren't necessarily on the ball enough to react in a positive way, especially with regard to your own safety or even life. (It turned out that it wasn't a baby, only a doll. The lady in question didn't actually get out of her car, just edged close enough to be able to see, then used the car to shove said pram and weird contents far enough off the road in order to be able to drive on.) She thought she saw a movement in the bushes in her rear vision mirror and floored the gas pedal. I reckon a lot of people would have got out to look and then push the thing out of the way, setting themselves up for a possible nasty attack. You just have to have the 'what if' thing in mind to keep you sharp. We seem nowadays to be far too 'soft' and trusting for our own good sometimes. 

There's a story for you. I bet there's lots of others waiting to be told in a similar vein (and some others that will never be told, for obviious reasons).

Anyway, thank goodness for EPIRBs and the like!

Interesting to see everybody's take on the subject. Thanks for all the reminiscences.


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## duncs

Ron Stringer said:


> Duncs,
> 
> I confess to being one of the "knockers" and although I would have preferred to be in a lifeboat with a portable lifeboat radio transceiver (PLE) than one which did not have one, I have serious doubts about their real value for communication in emergency conditions following an abandonment.
> 
> I too was able to make contact with other ships from the boat deck using the _"SALVITA"_ during "BoT sports" and I suspect that by connecting it to the ship's main aerial (as no doubt did your Greek friend) it would have had even greater abilities, but there is a world of difference between those conditions and the situation in a lifeboat in a seaway. As the one pressing the Morse key I could have gone on for long periods without effort. The poor sods turning the handles always started cheerfully enough but after a very short time were red-faced and sweating. Not many had the upper-body strength needed to sustain the effort needed, even on a stable platform. To do that whilst being tossed around in an open boat would be something else. And all to produce what could only have been a few milliwatts of ERP.
> 
> The hand-cranked set was the best that the vast majority of ships were given (passenger ships with their fixed installations were far better provided for) and arguably better than nothing. That didn't make them good nor beyond improvement. They were not the best available, only the cheapest solution acceptable to the authorities. The more expensive installation fitted on passenger ship motor lifeboats offered a far better solution. (Just as your Greek friend would have been far better off clearing traffic via a working reserve transmitter than the portable lifeboat transceiver).
> 
> We shall never know what proportion of instances of abandonment involved portable sets being taken into a lifeboat in an emergency, which were subsequently correctly rigged and operated but whose signals were never picked up. There have been instances (very few) where such signals were received but the failures seem to have been accepted or gone unnoticed (at least I do not know of any official enquiry into why no radio signals were received from a PLE following an abandonment. There have been many abandonments but few rescues recorded as resulting from, or being assisted by, the reception of alerts or other signals from a hand-cranked PLE in a lifeboat.
> 
> As I said, I would sooner trust to today's 406MHz/1.6GHz beacons than any hand-cranked W/T transceiver. Things have progressed and this is one of the positive changes adopted by IMO and rolled out across today's merchant shipping.


Ron,
early 70's I had surveyor on board in Cape Town. He was really strict on the portable tx/rx. I had no probs with my radio gear, and after the survey he told me about receiving a distress from a L/B radio, during the war, hence why so strict.
Also, fyi, I cooperated with FGMDSS, to do certain trials, early 80,s using satcom. Also real tests with the portable tx/rx. Using it's own antenna, on the bridge wing, over a few days testing, 300 miles was the best I obtained. Mind you, this was West of Africa.

Duncs


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## David Fyfe

Guys, I've been really interested to read your comments & remeniscences. Back on 12/4/2013 I put out a thread post about a Scanti Marinette(Marinetta) Type TRP1. And posted a picture on 19/4.
So all this recent info has enlightened me regarding Lifeboat equipment in general.
My own experiences had only ever really been with SARAH & SARBE emergency equipment back in the 60's when I served on 202 S&R Sqdn.

Regards, David


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## david.hopcroft

I have just bought myself a slide scanner and have been looking at old slides. Ref my earlier #10, #45 & 60, I found this one which would appear to show we used the aft motor lifeboat, so maybe there was a lifeboat set down aft ??

David
+


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## trotterdotpom

I only ever sailed with one Lifeboat set and it was usually in the radio room, occasionally on the bridge. They used to delegate someone to pick it up and take it to the boat while the Old Man and I were playing "Abide with Me" on our violins.

John T


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## Moulder

On my last ship - Jebsen's 'Telnes' - we had 4 lifeboats sets - one in each lifeboat connected to the 24 volt supply - one in the radio room and one in the fo'csle head.

(Thumb)


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## Troppo

trotterdotpom said:


> I only ever sailed with one Lifeboat set and it was usually in the radio room, occasionally on the bridge. They used to delegate someone to pick it up and take it to the boat while the Old Man and I were playing "Abide with Me" on our violins.
> 
> John T



While the water washed about your feet in the radio room...

(Thumb)


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## trotterdotpom

Troppo said:


> While the water washed about your feet in the radio room...
> 
> (Thumb)


Suitably tranquilised, hopefully.

John T


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## Wismajorvik

david.hopcroft said:


> I have just bought myself a slide scanner and have been looking at old slides. Ref my earlier #10, #45 & 60, I found this one which would appear to show we used the aft motor lifeboat, so maybe there was a lifeboat set down aft ??
> 
> David
> +


I'm pretty sure it was a Mobil Oil Co.regulation to have l/b sets mid ships and aft. Recollect also the 'spark free' chipping hammers, discharge pipelines continuity to be checked with a 1kv Megger and of course the three cans of beer per week,(gratis).


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## Varley

Very strange for a megger to be used here. The expected intention is to ensure that cargo pipework is electrically continuous with the ship's structure (with Butterworth hoses that the 'bonding' is continuous flange to flange) and so a low voltage ohmmeter is usually prescribed.

There is a minimum conductivity set for non-metallic pipes which could not be checked like this but I have never come across them.

It also begs the question of what meter would be used in either case. It should only be of an approved safe type (as determined by Flag not Class as they are portable devices!). Rare to find an Ex i low voltage Ohmmeter impossible to find one at high voltage.


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## Wismajorvik

Varley said:


> Very strange for a megger to be used here. The expected intention is to ensure that cargo pipework is electrically continuous with the ship's structure (with Butterworth hoses that the 'bonding' is continuous flange to flange) and so a low voltage ohmmeter is usually prescribed.
> 
> There is a minimum conductivity set for non-metallic pipes which could not be checked like this but I have never come across them.
> 
> It also begs the question of what meter would be used in either case. It should only be of an approved safe type (as determined by Flag not Class as they are portable devices!). Rare to find an Ex i low voltage Ohmmeter impossible to find one at high voltage.


Apologies to all.
Yes,strayed a bit off topic but a reply did result!
I was actually adding a few of the questionable instructions which were brought to my attention by doubters aboard ship. my advice to the lekkie was to use his Simpson meter i.e. Low voltage. I believe the chipping hammers were lost overboard....


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## david.hopcroft

There was a valve tester in the Radio Room. I had never seen one. before let alone knew how to useone. Lekkie used to bring some valves up from a fuel flow metering something, so maybe it had megger capabilities. I don't know, I never used it. 

Digressing slightly, whilst discharging at the buoy berth at Bataan, the 'security' guard with his pump action short barrelled shot gun came around the accommodation from aft with a *** on. The Mate spotted him, yelled out, and the guard stubbed it out in his hand !!!! I think it took all of the '3 beers' some remedial medicine to calm the mate !!

David
+


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## Varley

Wismajorvik said:


> Apologies to all.
> Yes,strayed a bit off topic but a reply did result!
> I was actually adding a few of the questionable instructions which were brought to my attention by doubters aboard ship. my advice to the lekkie was to use his Simpson meter i.e. Low voltage. I believe the chipping hammers were lost overboard....


I did Google an IACS agreement to the effect that the required minimum resistance (to prevent static charge building to dangerous levels) was 10 to the power 6 ohms, 1000 Megohms. My Megger has no graduation between 20 Megohms and "infinity" so not very useful limit to set for making objective tests anyway. Possibly that is the point as it allows the prescribed inspection to be visual (QUITE good! and certainly uncomplicated).

Edit - OOPS! Arithmetic. Only 1 Megohm. Still begs the question of using a megger unless gas free.


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## duncs

Moulder said:


> On my last ship - Jebsen's 'Telnes' - we had 4 lifeboats sets - one in each lifeboat connected to the 24 volt supply - one in the radio room and one in the fo'csle head.
> 
> (Thumb)


Typical Norski, Steve. They were probably Skanti. Was there a toilet in the same position in the lifeboats?(not a joke). I had the same on a tanker built for the N's. I was down by the head with radio gear. All great stuff.

Duncs


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## duncs

Varley said:


> I did Google an IACS agreement to the effect that the required minimum resistance (to prevent static charge building to dangerous levels) was 10 to the power 6 ohms, 1000 Megohms. My Megger has no graduation between 20 Megohms and "infinity" so not very useful limit to set for making objective tests anyway. Possibly that is the point as it allows the prescribed inspection to be visual (QUITE good! and certainly uncomplicated).
> 
> Edit - OOPS! Arithmetic. Only 1 Megohm. Still begs the question of using a megger unless gas free.



I own an 'insulation tester', It is not a 'megger'. I presume the name 'Megger' is a trade name.

Duncs


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## Varley

Bought a new 'Megger', processor controlled, dual high voltage plus low voltage. Digital readout plus an analogue of an analogue indication.

As used seldom it was left batteryless for some time. At a rare time of need the processor had 'forgotten' what type of meter it was, resurrection being about the same cost as purchasing new (of course a professional with need for annual calibration traceable to national standard would avoid such a failure).

Left it at recycling with a note of its defect and Ebayed for a windy-windy, moving coil job.

It is marked MEGGER REGd/TRADE MARK/MADE IN ENGLAND/ PATENT No 400728 and made by EVERSHED and VIGNOLES Ltd. Probably not quite as old as me but I expect it to see me out without re-programming! (the meter that is not me).


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## trotterdotpom

I have no need for a Megger as I don't own a cat.

John T


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## Wismajorvik

R651400 said:


> Wouldn't we all if such frequencies and technology were available/attainable circa 1954 thru maybe the next two decades.
> It beggars belief any ship of duncs era should lose battery powered emergency comms completely but does prove that the Greek tanker's lifeboat transmitter/receivers was no "dodo."


Memory cells depolarised. I understood that the Mobil Light (exStanvac India) was a turbo electric driven vessel. At sea primary power was lost and the stand by diesel genie would not start, the batteries flattened in the attempt. The radio room emergency batteries were taken to the genie and they in turn flattened without the genie starting. Signals were sent on the wind up Salvor lifeboat radio which were intercepted in Singapore and an investigating tug located the tanker.


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## Varley

trotterdotpom said:


> I have no need for a Megger as I don't own a cat.
> 
> John T


Nobody owns a cat!


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## trotterdotpom

Sorry, David, I should have said I don't have an animal prowling round the house sneering at me.

John T


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## Wismajorvik

R651400 said:


> Thought she may have been a T2 with this type of drive unit but see built Cammel Lairds 1953.
> Surely they informed the outside world beforehand their position and not under command msg by TTT on 500 kc/s before attempting something unorthodox and positively scary?


Would have thought so but I am not fully aware of the details. Was on board at Cammel Lairds when the vessel was subject to repairs and testing(including the fitting of new emergency radio batteries). Unfortunately I was taken ill and didn't sail with the ship.


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## Troppo

Wismajorvik said:


> The radio room emergency batteries were taken to the genie and they in turn flattened without the genie starting. .



(EEK)(EEK)(EEK)

Not if I was the R/O....


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## trotterdotpom

Troppo said:


> (EEK)(EEK)(EEK)
> 
> Not if I was the R/O....


Does sound like a dumb thing to do ..... unless the genie could grant three wishes in exchangefor the battery.

John T


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## duncs

I've never seen an emergency genny that was dependant on battery start alone!


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## Troppo

Not exactly the A-team by the sound of it....


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## duncs

Troppo said:


> Not exactly the A-team by the sound of it....


'A' being what?


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## Troppo

Competent.


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## Troppo

Of course.

No worries...I would have put chapter and verse in the radio log, and asked the old man to sign it. Removing the radio batteries is a clear breach of SOLAS.

I would also have reported the whole thing to the Chief Radio Surveyor as soon as I was ashore.

There is no excuse to breach SOLAS. None. The old man was an idiot.


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## Troppo

The prosecution rests, my lord.


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## trotterdotpom

I sailed on some German owned Liberian flag ships and we used German radio logs. Most of the Liberian rules seemed to mimic US ones - I would presume US ships had radio logs.

Wouldn't the sensible thing be to say to the Old Man: "Before you destroy the emergency battery, how about I try and send a message to someone to inform them of our predicament?" Assuming the OM was more than 4 foot tall, he would see the sense in that.

After that it would be all ar*e-covering, as Troppo says.

John T


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## Varley

Strangely the second starting method can also be electric but it must have a separate battery. I don't think SOLAS allows for the complete prat.

Only in a management company is a short Master a budgetary problem. The owning company may have his ships built to allow good bridge and wing visibility if habitually employing those with an altitude challenge - the manager must allow for both an orange box and a rating to strategically move it during standbys.

A short person on the engineering staff is less of a conundrum, especially if also blessed with long arms. Until they become Chief anyway - then they start complaining of sparkie taking showers.


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## trotterdotpom

R651400 said:


> All Niarchos ships were listed as HX (no specific watch keeping hours) in ITU's "List of Ships and Coast Stations."
> Not having any specific Liberian certified log book doesn't mean one was not kept.
> I rest my case.


How do you say "back-pedalling" in Liberian?

John T


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## chadburn

R651400 said:


> No doubt Geordie Chief will fill in the details but am at a bit of a loss in a turbo-electric drive unit where in the great scheme of things this battery flattening gennie lies.
> Oil fired steam from the ships boilers to drive a turbine turning a big beastie gennie whose output then drives wee beastie motor to turn ship's prop.
> Thought when there was loss of main boiler steam, ships relied on something like a donkey boiler?


If they have one available R6, usually whilst at sea the Donkey Boiler is shutdown on a steam job and could be under O/H. The S.T.E. Propulsion was very popular with the Americans. 
What I do know is that a well known O/M would have certainly wrote a letter to H/O and made a complaint about the R/O's non compliance with his order and demand the R/O should be paid off at the next Port(*))(*))


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## chadburn

I have just put a photograph up of an Electric Ships Propulsion diagram


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## Troppo

trotterdotpom said:


> Wouldn't the sensible thing be to say to the Old Man: "Before you destroy the emergency battery, how about I try and send a message to someone to inform them of our predicament?" Assuming the OM was more than 4 foot tall, he would see the sense in that.
> 
> After that it would be all ar*e-covering, as Troppo says.
> 
> John T


Exactly....


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## chadburn

R651400 said:


> Thanks info GC I understand STE design originated in France.
> Do I take it then shipboard auxi gennie start by battery was common practice as opposed to say compressed air start or steam driven?
> Don't think anyone was saying they would not comply with the Master's orders just the fact it was a rather unorthodox if not bizarre way to go about things.


You need to ask Wis on what were the starting options on that particular vessels Gennie.


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## Varley

trotterdotpom said:


> Sorry, David, I should have said I don't have an animal prowling round the house sneering at me.
> 
> John T


A smear of smoked salmon under arm will turn the sneer into a smile. A cupboard loving one I'll grant but definitely not a sneer.


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## chadburn

R651400 said:


> Been down every engine-room Freelance (Liberian/Greek Flag) ship I sailed on and have yet to say (fading memory excepting) never ever seen any bank of lead acid ac***ulators that were there to start the auxiliary generator
> Question GC.. Was 1953 Cammel Laird's built..Stanvac India/Mobil Light/Golden Falcon an exception to the rule or common practice?


During my time I came across electric start, air start, battery start and hand cranked? Take your pick.


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## trotterdotpom

Varley said:


> A smear of smoked salmon under arm will turn the sneer into a smile. A cupboard loving one I'll grant but definitely not a sneer.


I've got a feeling that would be a hit with the bar girls in Ammassalik.

John T


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## Duncan112

Geordie Chief, did you ever come across the hand pumped hydraulic ac***ulator start or the celluloid film start, put politely the hydraulic one might start a very warm generator, the film one worked, if you could get the film in the chamber before it self ignited (To be fair the film was very old and unstable - newer stock might have only ignited with the match!!)


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## chadburn

I would have thought it would have the hand cranked option, Gardner brought out a nice 4cyl unit which was basically a bus/Truck engine unit. There are advantages and disadvantages to most ship propulsion systems but I quite like the flexibility of the multi diesel-electric systems, which are costly. The price of Copper has doubled in the last couple of years.
My old man made a fair bit of money out of the Bombers he scrapped Post War, the screened copper cable was very high quality.
Duncan in answer to your question, not that I remember at this moment.
I missed out cartridge start.


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## Duncan112

Came across the hydraulic system on BP's River Boats - as I recall it was in the same class as the plastic fireguard and chocolate teapot!! The cartridge start is discussed here http://www.shipsnostalgia.com/showthread.php?t=35939


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## GBXZ

All "Front Line" RFAs had a standby emergency generator that was connected directly to the power board in the military radio room to power essential equipment. This was in addition to the BOT batteries. The generator was located on the upper deck for quick access and usually run once a week, starting was hand cranking and always worked first time, well usually first time.


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## Naytikos

How about neat gun-powder to start. I imagine the 12-guage shotgun cartridge method is a variation. On my last ship we had an MTU straight eight with battery or gunpowder start. The biggest problem was getting supplies of gunpowder; in the US one can buy it over the counter but not in most ports a VLCC could visit.

I remember the Inverbank had a, wait for it.......CLOCKWORK starting system. There was a big coil spring which was wound up against a ratchet then clutched to the flywheel and released.

In terms of vertically challenged bridge personnel. Niarchos' World Faith had a nice varnished wooden plinth, about 8 inches high, kept in the wheelhouse. It seems one of the early Masters was unable to see the radar screens with the hoods attached and had it made for the purpose.


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## Varley

I thought the gunpower starts were actually in cartridges rather than loose - what fun one could have had with that. One of the few times I went below on Tilapa was with the Chief, we had become bored with the film and having got a local armed copper to part with a bullet we tried to set it off (vice, nail, hammer etc. failed).

I had only heard of Screaming Willie and the orange box in respect of the bridge wing dodger - perhaps it was used for the radar as well.


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## mike oldfield

The only things i remember about the Gothic transmitter post fire is that it took days before anyone received the signal (i think a ham in Norway) and that we spent endless hours turning the handles that supposedly made it work, and that the RO had his morse finger in a splint for days afterwards.


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