# Tremo



## John Tremelling

Good morning Gentlemen,

Recently clearing my attic I came across some old lead waterline 1/1200:1250 models which I acquired many years ago. Having put them on display my grandchildren have taken a great interest in them, since when I have aquired many more for their interest. They are mainly Treforest Mouldings, Tremo, of 1937-40, and I have taken an especial interest in this make and especially the story behind this short lived company. Consequently I am posting to ask if anyone else on this site has an interest in, or knowledge of this company or Identification Models. I am particularly seeking catalogues to try to ascertain the range of their products, I have a Tremo catalogue of 1940, but would wish to view and copy others, if anyone has such. I also have some others which I believe to be Naval Ship Identification models. I like these models because they have a 'chunky' archaic feel, and are not too delicate thus my grandchildren with their sometimes clumsy fingers can handle them rather than just stare at them in a catalogue, equally they are easier to refit with my ageing eyesight and arthritic hands. 

Such models are of course mainly Grey Funnel Line, but I wish to get some real ships as well, (I never did work out where Grey Funnel Line ships stowed their cargoes?).

Thanks,

John T


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## Billieboy

Welcome aboard John, from the flat bit of Europe. Have a good look around and enjoy the trip.

Treforest moldings; one of the pioneers, in plastic transfer mouldings in the world! If the models are early, then they could be extremely valuable. I remember seeing their works at the Treforest Trading Estate in '48/9, which was itself one of the pioneering industrial park/estates in the immediate postwar period.


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## rickles23

Hi,
These guys might be able to help:
http://www.shipmodels.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/default.htm
Regards


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## John Tremelling

Thanks Rick, that site is one of my sources.

Billie Boy, I did not know that Tremo pioneered plastic. I am particularly interested in the lead models of 1937-40 which was then on Treforest Industrial Estate. One of the founders Freiedrich Winkler, a German Jew escaping from the Nazis, was interned in 1940 and the company then went into liquidation. I have come across suggestions that other employees emigrated to the US and made USN Identification Models. Winkler apparently emigrated to South Africa after the war, although the moulds quite obviously survived as some models were again alledgedly produced after the war. Your suggestion of plastic models is fascinating. Do you have evidence other than personal recollections?

There is apparently one book by an Italian Michele Morciano, Classic Waterline Ship Models, which deals briefly with the company, but otherwise very little, which is why I am sourcing original models, catalogues and personal anecdotes to try to piece something together. Any information most welcome.

Thanks for your interest,

John T


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## Billieboy

John Tremelling said:


> Thanks Rick, that site is one of my sources.
> 
> Billie Boy, I did not know that Tremo pioneered plastic. I am particularly interested in the lead models of 1937-40 which was then on Treforest Industrial Estate. One of the founders Freiedrich Winkler, a German Jew escaping from the Nazis, was interned in 1940 and the company then went into liquidation. I have come across suggestions that other employees emigrated to the US and made USN Identification Models. Winkler apparently emigrated to South Africa after the war, although the moulds quite obviously survived as some models were again alledgedly produced after the war. Your suggestion of plastic models is fascinating. Do you have evidence other than personal recollections?
> 
> There is apparently one book by an Italian Michele Morciano, Classic Waterline Ship Models, which deals briefly with the company, but otherwise very little, which is why I am sourcing original models, catalogues and personal anecdotes to try to piece something together. Any information most welcome.
> 
> Thanks for your interest,
> 
> John T


John,

I remember the lead(Pb) models, they used to be in the window of the Meccano shop on Holton Road Barry, when I was about five or six, always wanted to get a full fleet collection, but could never get enough pocket money together. There were also Zinc models of AA guns and Howitzers from the same makers.

Regarding plastic mouldings, my parents lodged with a Jewish family in Cathedral Road Cardiff for a time with me from birth until I was six months old. The family was called Joseph, who were still friendly after the war, I can remember being given a light blue plastic, (probably similar to Tupperware polyurethane), plate, cup and saucer, I also remember that Mr. Joseph said that it was one of the first sets in the world! The year was about 1946 or early '47. The Company, Treforest Mouldings, which had stopped during the war, was apparently taken over or bought by Mr. Joseph and his associates but keeping the name on the building. 

That's about all I can remember, I do hope that it will be of some assistance in your pursuit of knowledge.


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## John Tremelling

Plastic wares? Yet another puzzle Billie. The metal model ships were indeed expensive at the time, my 1940 catalogue lists HMS Hood, Nelson, Rodney and carriers as being 3/9, most battleships 2/9, cruisers from 1/9 to 2/6, destroyers from 1/- to 1/3, the cheapest being MTB's at 4d. At these prices I had always thought them to be collectors or rich kids toys.

Thanks for your recollections.

John T


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## Billieboy

I remember getting, "Warspite", one Christmas, when I was 3 or 4, kept it for years, but I had two younger brothers and it dissapeared when I started reading Biggles.


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## John Tremelling

Warspite seems to have been one of the most popular of their models Billie. Certainly it was a ship with a history, and there seem to be more models about now that any other. I have a couple, both decrepit, but in line for a refit to original 'as sold' condition.

John T


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## stores

*tremo ship models,*

hi from stores, as a restorer and collector of 1/1200 scale ship models that was interesting, i was not aware they made plastiic ships, i dont collect tremo, a lot of people do, i buy most of mine on ebay, type in 1/1200 and u will get ships to that scale, or triang minic ships , they come up now and then, give u an idea of what they sell for, i collect and restore the triang models, as spare funnels and masts are available in white metal, more detailed models, just managed to aquire 2 of cunards Franconia, extremely rare , only 500 made.one from USA and one from Holland, first one in original box worth £500 second no box worth about £300, i sometimes put extra detail on them or repaint them in different colours when the ship was sold and re named, have just done queen mary and elizabeth in wartime grey, best wishes, STORES.


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## John Tremelling

Thanks Q, I refit (reovate) Tremo's. I do monitor Ebay and have had a few bargains from there, however, sometimes they go for silly prices.

Best wishes,

John T


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## stores

*tremo*

website, waterline model ships sometimes has them for sale, worth a look ! STORES.


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## Les Smith

The available Treforest Mouldings (Tremo) catalogues comprise two distinct sets of do***ents – the more general lists of “all the world’s fighting ships” and the partially illustrated list of Royal Navy ships of 1940 vintage. The former is basically a list of the major ships from Janes Fighting Ships 1939.

Two recent photographs on the Vectis auction site (see links below) give a tantalising glimpse of potential Treforest Mouldings Warships not listed in the illustrated 1940 catalogue/list but listed in the general listing for the Royal Navy at a price of 3/9 (3s 9d). In the 1940 list these are shown as “new construction” but it has often been assumed that these were never produced as the company went into liquidation in 1940.

http://www.vectis.co.uk/Page/ViewAuctionLots.aspx?AuctionId=334&DayNo=2&Section=188&Sub=0&Start=20


http://www.vectis.co.uk/Page/ViewLot.aspx?LotId=354145&Section=188&Sub=0


Ship Class Launched	

HMS Illustrious Illustrious 5 April 1939

HMS Victorious Illustrious	19 September 1939

HMS Formidable Illustrious	17 August 1939

HMS Indomitable Illustrious	26 March 1940

I have been collecting Tremo ships from worldwide sources for a number of years and have never seen examples of these. The fact that the company actually produced boxes listing these must indicate that they had produced – or had plans to imminently produce these models.

Does anyone have examples of these? - if so, I would be interested in seeing a photograph.

Other ships in the “new construction” category include:

King George V class battleships

Fiji and Dido class cruisers

U class submarines

Tribal, J, K and I class destroyers were listed as “new construction” but were produced and are commonly encountered.

Uncommon/rare Tremos still crop up from time – I recently obtained the Argentinian cruiser “La Argentina” unexpectedly in a batch of other vessels.

I would be interested to hear of any “unusual” Tremos that people have or have come across.

Regards

Les


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## Robin Wishart

Hello all, I am also very interested in Tremo models, I have a collection of 22 of them which includes set no. 1, set no. 4 plus 13 others. Unusual ones I suspect are the Graf Spee in perfect cond [all three masts], Jean d' arc, USS Astoria and U59. There are 7 HMS cruisers [ Belfast, Kent etc.] Hood, 2 Tribals etc. I am not looking to sell these but would interested to hear what the community thought. They were all bought by my father in 39/40 in West Kilbride Scotland and very carefully played with on the billiards table all during the war. My father was just too young to fight, his big brother was however on 6 destroyers during the war as 'guns' officer, HMS Zulu being his longest serving ship until she was bombed and sank after a failed commando raid at Trobruk. He died on HMS Kite on the last convoy to Russia in 44. These models had a very special place in his heart which is why I do not want to sell them. Robin.


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## Les Smith

Robin Wishart said:


> Hello all, I am also very interested in Tremo models, I have a collection of 22 of them which includes set no. 1, set no. 4 plus 13 others. Unusual ones I suspect are the Graf Spee in perfect cond [all three masts], Jean d' arc, USS Astoria and U59. There are 7 HMS cruisers [ Belfast, Kent etc.] Hood, 2 Tribals etc. I am not looking to sell these but would interested to hear what the community thought. They were all bought by my father in 39/40 in West Kilbride Scotland and very carefully played with on the billiards table all during the war. My father was just too young to fight, his big brother was however on 6 destroyers during the war as 'guns' officer, HMS Zulu being his longest serving ship until she was bombed and sank after a failed commando raid at Trobruk. He died on HMS Kite on the last convoy to Russia in 44. These models had a very special place in his heart which is why I do not want to sell them. Robin.


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Robin this is a great collection. -Graf Spee is the most common of the German ships but is still uncommon. Jeanne d'Arc and Astoria and U59 rare and I suspect that the U-boot will be similar to the Wiking models but it will be interesting to see. The sets are extremely rare (even if they contain ships which are individually common).

Regards

Les Smith


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## Nichad

Billieboy said:


> Welcome aboard John, from the flat bit of Europe. Have a good look around and enjoy the trip.
> 
> Treforest moldings; one of the pioneers, in plastic transfer mouldings in the world! If the models are early, then they could be extremely valuable. I remember seeing their works at the Treforest Trading Estate in '48/9, which was itself one of the pioneering industrial park/estates in the immediate postwar period.


Billie, I am new to this site and I realise that this thread is a bit old, but it is very much of interest to me.

Could I ask the following questions?

Do you remember where exactly the Treforest Moulding Factory was on the Trading Estate?

Who were the Jewish family who took over from I assume F. Winkler and associates?

When did the take over, change of ownership take place?

What year were you talking of in seeing the ships on display in Barry and how expensive were they at that time?

Any information you could give would be very much appreciated.

Cheers.


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## tsell

Nichad said:


> Billie, I am new to this site and I realise that this thread is a bit old, but it is very much of interest to me.
> 
> Could I ask the following questions?
> 
> Do you remember where exactly the Treforest Moulding Factory was on the Trading Estate?
> 
> Who were the Jewish family who took over from I assume F. Winkler and associates?
> 
> When did the take over, change of ownership take place?
> 
> What year were you talking of in seeing the ships on display in Barry and how expensive were they at that time?
> 
> Any information you could give would be very much appreciated.
> 
> Cheers.


Nichad, please scroll to one of Billieboy's posts above, click on his name and read his profile.

Best regards,

Taff


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## Nichad

Thank you Taff for identifying my error.

As a Welshman myself, whose family hails from Pontypridd, I would have looked forward to learning from the gentleman, whose passing I must sadly acknowledge.

By chance would you have any information on Treforest Mouldings Limited. location, production or staff?

Thank you again for taking the trouble to inform me.

Best Regards


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## tsell

Nichad said:


> Thank you Taff for identifying my error.
> 
> As a Welshman myself, whose family hails from Pontypridd, I would have looked forward to learning from the gentleman, whose passing I must sadly acknowledge.
> 
> By chance would you have any information on Treforest Mouldings Limited. location, production or staff?
> 
> Thank you again for taking the trouble to inform me.
> 
> Best Regards


Hi, Nichad, I'm sorry I can't help you with your research. I do recall my dad taking me to the estate after the war and telling me that it was begun on my second birthday and I think he had something to do with it, but if so, I have no idea what it could have been. I left home straight after school to go to sea - apart from another visit when around fourteen, which I remember was the last time I saw it.

We were on the way to visit family in Ponty, where we had a lot of relations, some of whom worked on the estate during the war, I was told. I used to go there - Ponty - a lot before I left home and I think dad had some business interest there.

My grandmother's family also came from Ponty and you couldn't find a more Welsh name than Gwenllian Morgan, could you? She was not the first woman mayor in Wales, who was of the same name, she would laughingly point out.

All the best,

Taff


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## Nichad

Thanks again Taff,

I remember, as a boy, going down through the railway bridges onto the trading estate, or cutting across the lines near Treforest as a boy. But then, I was always off down the railways somewhere. Through the Caerphilly tunnel, or down the hill to town and off to Barry, as the scrap graveyard collection grew.

Like yourself, had family who worked at various location on the estate, including the chain works, but it's the Tremo site I would like to have someone confirm. As there appear to be two period where Treforest Mouldings Ltd operated, from 1937 to 1939 when F. Winkler was interned and then post war between 1945 and 1946 when I understand the factory burnt down.

Having spent most of my working life abroad, including at sea, I return to find memories sporadic at best. So as my interest grows, there are increasingly fewer available to feed it.

Gwenllian Morgan lovely name, very Welsh!...But then, I had a Great Grandmother from England, who became a very well respected Welsh teacher, long before the current revival meant anything.

Your recollections are much appreciated.

Best Regards


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## George Burton

I have just joined this forum in the hope that other members may have more information about Tremo/Treforest Mouldings 1/200 scale lead-cast aircraft. Details of the ships seem to be well known and members have mentioned having original catalogues - do any of these have information of other Tremo products, especially aircraft? 
I have a boxed Handley Page Harrow in silver and also an unboxed Bristol Bombay. They also produced a Bristol Blenheim and a Boulton & Paul Defiant I have had for 40+ years was described as Tremo at the time.
Any further information would be gratefully received.


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