# Please help me again!!!!



## Debbie

Hello to one and all, i trust every one has had a Great Xmas and is going to have a Fantastic year ahead.
Well once again i am here to ask for HELP...I am still researchng my Family Tree and have come up with the names of some more ships, used by my ancestors. The last time i asked for help it was granted and i have come a long way since then...So if any one knows where i can get pictures of these ships, please point me in the right direction. The ships are....
1. Barque "British Queen"
2. Barque "Courier"
3. The "Mooltan"
4. The "Northumbria"
Hope some one can help, for now i will say Good Night and Thank you.
Debbie


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## treeve

Hello Debbie ... please can you give an idea of dates?
British Queen was fairly often used.
I have a page on the Mooltan, but it may not be "yours".
Best Wishes, Raymond


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## benjidog

Hi Debbie,

P&O had three ships called Mooltan.


An ironclad passenger liner launched in 1860 which disappeared without trace in the Atlantic in 1891 (though by then named Eleanor Margaret)
A passenger liner launched in 1905 and torpedoed and sunk in 1917.
Another passenger liner launched in 1923 and scrapped in 1954.
You will find photos of all three in the book P&O A Fleet History by Stephen Rabson and Kevin O'Donague - Pub: World Ship Society Kendal.

You will find a photo of the third ship in The Allen Collection at this URL: http://www.benjidog.co.uk

Regards,

Brian


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## Debbie

treeve said:


> Hello Debbie ... please can you give an idea of dates?
> British Queen was fairly often used.
> I have a page on the Mooltan, but it may not be "yours".
> Best Wishes, Raymond


Hello Raymond the only date that i could possibly give you is when my ancestors arrived here in Australia..Which was 1853, 1845 and1849. Hope this helps for my query...thanks Debbie


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## treeve

Ah yes, I was wondering if it was the older Mooltan. I came across her before, I will have a check and get back to you.
There was a barque British Queen that sailed from around my area, here in Cornwall, I will also need to check that one.
Best Wishes, Raymond


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## Debbie

benjidog said:


> Hi Debbie,
> 
> P&O had three ships called Mooltan.
> 
> 
> An ironclad passenger liner launched in 1860 which disappeared without trace in the Atlantic in 1891 (though by then named Eleanor Margaret)
> A passenger liner launched in 1905 and torpedoed and sunk in 1917.
> Another passenger liner launched in 1923 and scrapped in 1954.
> You will find photos of all three in the book P&O A Fleet History by Stephen Rabson and Kevin O'Donague - Pub: World Ship Society Kendal.
> 
> You will find a photo of the third ship in The Allen Collection at this URL: http://www.benjidog.co.uk
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Brian


Hello Brian, your Mooltan is much later than the one i am looking for...The Mooltan i am after was still in service on the 23 April 1853...I know her Port of Departure at that time was Southampton, Eng. That is when my ancestors were onboard and they sailed for Australia...Thank you, Debbie


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## treeve

Mooltan was a 560 ton Ship rig, dates from around 1853.
Specifically an emigrant ship.
Her port was Southampton.
Archives Office in Hobart - 
Ref CB7/12/2B 16 - Descriptive List of Immigrants Ship Mooltan.
Ref CB7/16/3.Register of the Hiring/Disposal of Immigrants on Mooltan.
That is all I had; maybe the Southampton Shipping Registers can be accessed; I will check to see where they are and what is available.
It may be that the Captain is mentioned in the manifests at Hobart;
maybe his records are held at the Guildhall in London. 
All Best, Raymond


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## treeve

There are 5 BRITISH QUEENs at
http://www.reach.net/~sc001198/ShipsB2.htm
I have my doubts that any of them were Australian bound.
More later


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## treeve

Southampton Merchant Shipping Records 1855-1994
Held at Southampton Archives Service
Southampton City Council
Civic Centre
Southampton SO14 7LY

city.archives"AT"southampton.gov.uk


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## Debbie

Hi Raymond, thank you so much for the info. All i have to do now is find out about the other ships and i will be set...Thanks again you are a treasure...
Regards Debbie


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## treeve

Hi Debbie, do you have any idea just where your ancestors lived
at the time before they emigrated? It may give a clue as to where
the departure point was, and it may give a clue as to registered port.
All the Best, Raymond


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## Debbie

Hello again Raymond, most os my ancestors came from, Babcury, West Cam and Somerset...I guess these place are all the same??? Regards Debbie


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## treeve

That is good as it narrows it down to South Coast, probably no further East than Southampton. I doubt also that they travelled further West than Plymouth, although there were departures from Fowey, Falmouth, Penzance and the Isles of Scilly. My paternal ancestors were also Somerset. 
I will have a think ... Best wishes, Raymond


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## Debbie

Thanks again Raymond...Regards Debbie


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## erylro

*British Queen*

Hello Debbie

I have just come across your post enquiring about (among other vessels) the barque _British Queen_, and treeve's reply to you to the effect that "There are 5 BRITISH QUEENS at http://ww.reach.net/-~sc001198/ShipsB2.htm I have my doubts that any of them were Australian bound." 

Perhaps I may be able to shed light on the vessel you are interested in. 

My great great grandfather, William Peel Casson, who was born in Liverpool to parents from Whitehaven, went to sea at the age of 13. From his application for the examination for his First Mate's Certificate of Competency, we learn that in April 1847 he joined the _British Queen_, which was registered at Whitehaven by the Jefferson brothers, merchants and shipowners of Whitehaven. The CLIP website (see http://www.crewlist.org.uk/data/vesselsalpha.php) lists no less than 66 vessels which bore the name _British Queen_, but only one of them was registered at Whitehaven, which ties it down to the vessel with Official Number 9360. She was ordered by the Jefferson brothers from the yard of Lumley Kennedy, Whitehaven, immediately after the loss of their vessel Thetis in 1937, and was launched on 24th May 1838. The British Queen was 218 nrt, 300 grt, and was built for the Jeffersons to carry sugar, rum and molasses from their sugar plantations in Antigua, and this she continued to do right up until the very point at which William Peel Casson joined her in 1847. On 28 Feb 1846, command of the British Queen passed from Capt Kennedy to Capt Joseph Wise, who, as David Hollett (From ***berland to Cape Horn: The sailing Fleet of Thomas & John Brocklebank of Whitehaven and Liverpool 1770-1900, London: Fairplay Publications Ltd., 1984, p. 51) notes, began "making record passages across the Atlantic with his new command". Hollett quotes the _***berland Pacquet_ in January 1847 as follows - 
"The _British Queen_, Wise, from Antigua and Belfast at this port on the 2nd instant - 43 days passage to the former port. On the 19th December, in lat 51.11N long 9.54W spoke the barque Ajax for Valparaiso. The _Queen_ under the able seamanship of Capt Wise has performed three West Indies voyages within the twelve months, a feat which reflects great credit on her commander for his perseverance and activity."

In the Preface to his excellent book, Hollett notes that the Jefferson vessels were not exclusively concerned with the Antiguan trade, however. 
"In the year 1818 Robert and Henry Jefferson began to operate a small fleet of ships. These vessels were mainly employed in the West Indies trade, but they also made many other voyages to distant parts of the globe." 

According to Australian Shipping 1788-1968, (Index File 46, Vessels Departing by Year - http://www.blaxland.com/ozships/year/depart/s46.htm), the _British Queen_ departed Port Phillip (i.e. Melbourne) on 17 April, 1847, bound for Gravesend for Sep. 16th. In order to have reached Melbourne by that April, the she must have left England in January 1847, immediately after the record-breaking voyage across the Atlantic to which reference has just been made. My great, great grandfather must have officially joined her at Melbourne, just before his 14th birthday (on 22nd April), which means he must have sailed out to Australia with her in January 1847, whilst still only 13 years old - on what must have been the next voyage after the three to the West Indies just mentioned in the ***berland Pacquet. Most likely, he went out to Port Phillip on the _British Queen_ as an unofficial deck-hand, but his apprenticeship proper could only be counted as commencing from his 14th birthday. According to Alan Villiers, _Square-Rigged Ships: An Introduction_ (National Maritime Museum, p. 11),
"There was in Britain a system of apprenticeship under which boys of 14 and upwards to 16/17 could be bound to an owner, to work for him for four years in his ships for nothing (sometimes a pittance in the fourth year). The usual premium charged was £40 for each lad, which was a lot of money in 1895 or 1915.
For this sum paid by their parents, four, six, or eight hardy lads slept in a steel ‘house’ in the wettest part of the ship, where they had rough bunks, their own sea chests to sit on, and their strict allowance of food like the foremast hands." 

The Jeffersons were perhaps more enlightened in their treatment of their apprentices than some shipowners, for William Peel Casson's service on the British Queen continued for the next five years - from April 1847 to April 1852. 

According to the account of the vessel on the Mighty Seas website (see http://www.mightyseas.co.uk/marhist/whitehaven/british_queen_whitehaven.htm), Capt Wise was still in command in 1858 when the Jeffersons tried to sell the brig, placing an advertisement in the ***berland Pacquet. No buyers were forthcoming, however, and the brig continued to work for the Jeffersons, under the command of Capt. Joseph Ledger. The _British Queen_ was out from Liverpool bound for Greenspond with a salt cargo, but struck ice at 4756' N 4740' W on the 6th May 1861. She sank within a few hours, and the master and crew were picked up next morning by the Transit from Liverpool and landed at St. John's. 

A painting of the _British Queen_ in full sail, and a ship's log are on display at the museum, The Rum Story, Lowther Street, Whitehaven - in what were the old offices of the Jeffersons.

Hope this may be of interest and helps your research forward.

erylro


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