# What is this please?



## wightspirit (Feb 15, 2008)

Hi everyone

I put some divers on an unidentified wreck recently, and they reported a very unusual fitting at the foot of the bows, as per the attached illustration. The wreck lies on its port side so this was clearly visible. What I'm asking about is this: what is the hatched area? It was a substantial piece of steelwork the like of which we've not seen before. We think it's a First World War wreck - but does anyone know what the fitting is and if so, roughly what period it might date from?

Dave W


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## ninabaker (May 4, 2012)

I dont know that anyone could offer you any ideas based on that extremely basic sketch. What are we meant to infer from the hatched area? That there is a squared-off plate on the bow beneath the usual curved bow?
Are there any better descriptions or photos to help?


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## wightspirit (Feb 15, 2008)

Yes, that's it - a squared off, substantial plate projecting forward. No photos I'm afraid. The only additional information is that it formed a right angle with the stem and the line of the keel. It might be an extremely basic sketch but that's how it was described to me and drawn as depicted.

Dave W


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## Barrie Youde (May 29, 2006)

I can offer only two suggestions, both of which are guesses and nothing more:-

1. It might be a device to improve the steering of the vessel, by way of directional stability.

2. It might be a device to allow for more efficient use of a particular berth in a harbour, somewhere (i.e. to prevent the forefoot from riding over a particular obstacle somewhere.

Otherwise, your guess is as good as mine! Good luck!


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## ninabaker (May 4, 2012)

Could it be a primitive sort of ice-breaking bow?
Next time someone is down it might be worth seeing if inside the forepeak is structured in any unusual way.
I could imagine this bow plate running into, say, a muddy bank or soft beach and holding fast on the plate but without the suction problem that an embedded round bow might experience?

n


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## david freeman (Jan 26, 2006)

questions : where does the wreck lie? does she have a stern, and rudder.
One thing if this vessel is WWI as suggested, depending where the wreck lies, ? Is she near to a Known port/harbour or lagoon, and was the protrusion on the bow for cutting through a mine field/harbour protected area boom netting that was errected to protect the safe haven???
Answers on a postcard please.
Or is this a foreign ship leading an attack on a boom defence to allow small subs or two man torpedoes to enter the safe enemy port and create havoc, while itself being a sacrificail object.


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## Stephen J. Card (Nov 5, 2006)

Quite it is a vessel with a 'maierform' bow. First came into use in the 1930s. European builders used it. Some vessels, like Blue Star ANDALUCIA STAR had their bow lengthened and given a maierform bow. Speed and seakeeping. It is the opposite of a 'spoon stern'.

The difference is the shetch, It seems to have a maierform bout WITH a modification ie with the flat plate. Quite possible. Barrie things it might be to improve steering. I think it would work like that. Nina think it might be an old icebreaking bow. It starts looking like an icebreaker, but old breakers needed the 'spoon' to rise the hull above the ice and break it. There is a flat piece on the bottom of icebreakers, but not quite as shown in the drawing.

Here are a couple of maierform bows. Used on all kinds of ships, cargo boats, ferries, trawlers. Perhaps an owner didn't like it and added a flat plate to make it 'better'.

Stephen


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## barrypriddis (Oct 3, 2005)

Looks a bit like a skeg to me


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## cueball44 (Feb 15, 2010)

barrypriddis said:


> Looks a bit like a skeg to me


You could be right >


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## wightspirit (Feb 15, 2008)

Thank you all for your replies. I think cueball44's photo is pretty much it. The wreck lies in mid English Channel in 60 metres of water. She appears to have struck the seabed stern first, as the rudder is missing and at least 2 propeller blades have been broken off. If it's the ship I think it is, she's been underwater for the best part of a century and there's no forepeak, as such, left, there being just a large heap of anchor chain at the bows. She was built in Sunderland and lost early in 1918, British owners, so no career to speak of. She has a large stern gun and her state of decay strongly suggests she was a victim in WW1.
Thanks again for all your suggestions.

Dave W


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## Basil (Feb 4, 2006)

Not, perchance, been a ferry which goes backwards or forwards like the Sydney harbour vessels?
Is there a tailshaft and rudder pintles?


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## Stephen J. Card (Nov 5, 2006)

Please see attached photos...

PARAVANE gear as used in the First War. Photo of the USS Missouri. 27 October 1918. "...showing the PAPAVANE SKEG attached to the forefoot..." 

Early in 1917, then, while the Paravane department at Portsmouth was supplying vessels of war with the mine-protector Paravane gear, Messrs. Vickers in London began to equip the merchant ships of the world with the Otter. 

What must now be done was to manufacture the Otter and its elaborate gear, and to equip with it the British and Allied merchant services. As ships could not be withdrawn from the sea for the purpose, it was necessary to fit them when they were under repair or during their stay in port between voyages. In order that the towing wire should be attached to the forefoot of the vessel, at the point where the bow joins the keel, it was necessary to fit every ship with a shoe, or a saddle-plate or a clump, to which were attached the towing wires of the two Otters. The requisite fitting varied with the particular build of the ship. The type of Otter-fitting required also varied with the particular type of ship, and the variation was practically covered within seven or eight standard types. Ships under construction were, of course, adapted to the Otter as they were built. 

In some ships it was necessary to extend the stem itself to take the saddle-plate or sliding shoe; to others, in which the stem was much cut away, a clump was fitted; to others, a large saddle-plate was fitted. Three-strand towing wire of special design was provided. For dropping and weighing the Otter, the fittings again varied according to the type of ship. If she had no suitable derrick or davit a gallows crane was fitted. An inhaul wire, an easing-out wire, a tripping wire and a tripping hook were provided. 

It was clearly necessary to catch each vessel as she entered port and to fit her there and then. For that purpose, Otters and gear must be ready in the port, with a skilled staff to fit them. When the Otter was fitted to the ship it was necessary to teach the crew how to use it...

..The Paravane fitted to merchant vessels was called the Otter, for convenience in distinction...



Quite possible this vessel was a fishing vessel with a spoon bow. Some odd steam trawlers did have this style bows. The skeg was done for attaching the minesweeping gear. This skeg, bigger or smaller was fitted to whatever stem wwas required. Note the USS Mercher 1919. Even WW2 Liberty Ships had the same skeg and fir this purpose.

So, it is definitely the 'skeg', and likely the reason on this vessel

Stephen


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## wightspirit (Feb 15, 2008)

Stephen, thank you, I think that must be the correct explanation. Hadn't heard of it before. The wreck is of a 3500 ton steamer, fairly typical configuration with machinery amidships, two holds forward and two aft. If it's the wreck I think it is, and seeing as she was completed and lost early in 1918 she was almost certainly built with the skeg as per your illustrations. Basil - no, not a ferry - the wreck has 2 propeller blades broken off and 2 disappearing into the sand and though the rudder is missing the pintles are present.

Thanks again to all for taking an interest.

Dave W


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## oceanmariner (May 23, 2016)

I worked in a shipyard when young and saw several bows with an extending heavy plate at the turn of the bow. All with a hole thru the plate. I also saw many WWII USN pictures of cruisers and others with the same 2 chains. Now I know. Thanks.


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## A.D.FROST (Sep 1, 2008)

oceanmariner said:


> I worked in a shipyard when young and saw several bows with an extending heavy plate at the turn of the bow. All with a hole thru the plate. I also saw many WWII USN pictures of cruisers and others with the same 2 chains. Now I know. Thanks.


Suez Canal Light


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## Keith Adams (Nov 5, 2006)

Not sure if you guys are still looking this up ... If you check the stem foot of any Liberty Ship eg "Jeremiah O'Brien" 1943 in dry dock you will see such a cast steel device but no where near as large as the sketch ... only about 18 to 24 inch protrusion. Never questioned anyone about it but assumed it was to prevent slack mooring ropes/wires or tow ropes from sliding all the way under the hull. Snowy.


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## A.D.FROST (Sep 1, 2008)

Stephen Card #12 is correct.Heres the proof(A picture is worth a thousand words)


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