# SS Sagamore--Help Needed



## Ken Berry (Jul 15, 2007)

Have just found out Thomas Edward Lunt 3rd Engineer S.S. Sagamore torpedoed 3rd March 1917 150 miles off Fastnet.Sank in thirty Minutes only 3 lifeboats got away.A gale came up and they were all seperated two of them never seen again.3rd lifeboat with my Grandad in it and 16 others.Weren't picked up till the 12th March,by the Blue Funnel ship Deucalion.10 of the men in the lifeboat had died.Deucalion dropped them off at Capetown.5 of them had to have their feet amputated immediately.My Grandad lasted till 1921 and he was operated on 1921-22-23.Anyone have a photo of ship or seen one anywhere.Also were I might get more information.Liverpool Maritime Museum are going to get shock and here is us the City of Culture and some of our Historyhas gone missing.Understandable mind you.Hope some one might be able to help best Rgards Ken B


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## 12548 (Mar 23, 2007)

*Ships*

Pic of it here. Is this the correct one?

http://www.merchant-navy.net/Pictures/sagamore.html

Also attaching other Pic od a SS Sagamore but not sure of this one?
joller6


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## Hugh MacLean (Nov 18, 2005)

*SAGAMORE official number 102059*

Hi Ken,
There is a photo of ss SAGAMORE official number 102059 built in 1892 for Warren Line in the book *Ships of Our Ancestors*. Hit the link and scroll down the page you will find her. She was sunk by U-49 with the loss of 52 souls.

More info from the *Roots Web Forum*

I have attached a clippng from the Times newspaper dated 1918 below

Regards


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## Ken Berry (Jul 15, 2007)

Hi Joller6 South Africa.Senior Member.
Hi Hugh MacClean.Scotland.Senior Member
Sorry for not Thanking you sooner,but have just pick your email up on Google,with Photographs.Its almost 6 years since I started to Look for "Lunty as every one called him.He actually got back to the UK still with his own feet.Unfortunately they started to remove toes and bits until 1921-1922-1923.When they amputated to just under his knees.I can recall my mother saying he had a terrible time and My Mum and Gran also.He had started to become an Alcoholic.Its a long story.The first clue I got was from the SPVA by chance I thought he would be getting a Pension and they had the name of the ship and when he had ,Had his amputations.This is one "happy old fella"
Two little story's He was off the bottle and Mum ,My Uncle Mums youngest brother (5years older than me) and myself stayed in his Anderson Air Raid ShelterThe following morning Cyril had to tidy the shelter had to do the dishes
while Mum went to the shops.I heard him banging around up stairs and he came down and took to me with his walking sticks,I was crying and screaming,Cyril dached in when he heard the noise and jumped on his Dads back knocking him to the ground and then took his sticks away.A Neighbour came in and a few minutes later Mum arrived.She just grabbed all our clothes with Cyril and the Neeighbour was keeping his ete on Lunty.Mum last words have always been in My Mind "Dad this is the finish MUM died of a broken heart and now your trying to kill your grandson.Reggie is going to get to know this and he'll be down to see you" and we left.Reggie was in the RN and away on Convoy's.When I was almost 18 I was playing for Liverpool "A","B" and a few games for the Reserves and one day he arrived at a game at Fleetwood.After the game he came up and said how I played and he'd see me again.Then it was "I'm a bit short this week lad could you lend me a couple of Bob.So it was 10 shillings ,occasionally a Pound.Only ever saw him at away games,and never knew how he got there.Clitheroe,Wigan Blackpool and Fleetwod plus a couple of others.Jimmy McInnes and Tom Bush were the coaches and I think it was Wigan they ask me is tthat Old Chap Your Grandfather and I said"Yes".Tell him from now on there is always a seat on the Bus for him.Guess where the first stop was first Pub into Liverpool I think it was the Greyhound.Actually Joller there was a big paper cutting my other Grandad had and it was out of a South African Caoetown Newspaper.I went up to Scotland to finish my apprenticeship with B & W and then to Sea.Don't know what happened to it but it was a great write Up for Him.I still Loved him a great deal as from 1935 he lived by himself as Mums brothers and sisters moved in with us.My other Grandad lived with us as well Captain Alfred Edward Berry of the Bramley Moore Tug,Alexander Towing Co.He retired as soon as the war finished he was 76 and he lived to 86.Unfortunately all his records went up in smoke during the Blitzes.Once again Thanks a Million and especially for My 3 Daughters,9 grandchildren and two littlely Greatgrand children,as they have hounded me for years to get some family history on paper and the Computer.My Wife is a New Zealander 5th generation (nee Greer) was MacGregor but the Brits made them change it.Bad lot.She has her family tree back to 869 AD must admit it is fascinating to read.Thanks once again and forgive me rambling on a bit long Ken B


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## Bruce Carson (Jun 14, 2005)

Hello Ken:
The 'Sagamore', pictured in the thumbnail, is definitely not the ship you're looking for. She was a whaleback ship built under license by Doxford in 1893, the only one of that type built in the UK. Refused British registry, she flew the Belgian flag and was sold Italian in 1911, being renamed 'Solideo'. As the 'Ilva' she was torpedoed on May 4, 1917 off Spain.
I think you're looking for a ship of just over 5,000GT, built by H&W in 1892, the ship to which Hugh is referring.

Bruce


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## Tmac1720 (Jun 24, 2005)

If Bruce is correct the details are as follows:

Sagamore built by Harland and Wolff Belfast, yard number 256, launched 8th September 1892 and completed 30th November 1892 as a passenger ship of 5036 gross tons to the order of George Warren & Company (Sagamore Shipping Company) Photographs are available of this ship from the Harland and Wolff Historic Photographic Collection and the person to contact is Mr Ken Anderson, Head of Photographic Department, Ulster Folk and Transport Museum, Cultra Manor, Holywood, Co Down, BT18 0EU. The telephone number is 02890 428428. I hope this information is useful and wish you the best of luck with your research.


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## Ken Berry (Jul 15, 2007)

Thanks once again to Joller 6 and Hugh MacLean and now including Bruce Carson,I Love this a Semi - seasoned moderator.U.S.A. Plus Tmac Brit Oul hand,with the old Harland and Wolff Monogram and address for photo.
Tanks yous lot for der help(trying to get a bit of my old accent back).
Seriously Its so appreciated what information you have given Me.Thanks Guys Best Regards Ken B


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