# West Bank Dock Widnes England



## nickjaxe

Hi all, 

I'm trying to find some info and pictures of the old West Bank Dock on the upper part of the River Mersey at Widnes in England...the remain of the lock entrance are still to be seen...from what I know the dock closed in 1970,

Love to see some pictures of the dock or and information anybody may have,

Just outside the dock with parts still visible at low water are the remains of a ship scrapped in the river...again love to see some pictures of this ship before it was scrapped.

Nick from Runcorn.


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## Pat Kennedy

There are quite a few photos and some maps at this link.

http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/features/widnes_dock_and_marsh/index.shtml


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## nickjaxe

Hi Pat thank you for your information,

Unfortunately that is a different dock connected to the canal system but interesting though,

Not sure if you familiar with the area but its the old dock on the opposite side of the Runcorn road bridge around 1 mile downstream from Widnes Dock

Nick.


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## Pat Kennedy

Nick,
Sorry, that is the only dock in Widnes that I knew about. I have been there once or twice, and walked through the park at Spike Island a while back.. 
Ive never explored Widnes downstream of the bridge, seems to be all industrial sites and chemical works, a bit like the Land of Mordor!
Cheers, 
Pat


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## nickjaxe

Its an interesting walk over that side Pat....with the remains of what looks to be a fair sized coaster just above the low water mark and very near the area of the old dock and the remains of its lock gates...it was cut up there for scrap there....would be interested in seeing what it was and its size before they got the gas axe on it....only ever seen plesure craft on that part of the river,

The path that runs along side the river is part of trans Pennine way and leads up to Pickerings pasture if you are familiar,

There is a large monolith with a plaque just the other side of the newish footbridge that crosses Ditton Brook with information on it telling of the last commercial traffic the did come that far up river....would love to have seen those comings and goings.

Nick.


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## doncontrols

Try this PHOTO  (Thumb)
Is this the place you mean?


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## Barrie Youde

I made two or three trips to West Bank Dock, but always under the guidance of the redoubtable Captain Vivian Thomas, the up-river pilot; up-river being anywhere upstream of the line from Speke Perch to Eastham Locks.

Captain Thomas would board and leave by launch at a point approximately on the Birkenhead to Liverpool ferry track, or just to the south of it.

The passage upstream through the steep mudbanks was not to be trifled with.

Sorry I have no photographs. Good hunting!

BY


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## nickjaxe

Hi Barrie thats very interesting...what size of vessel would that have been then that you visited Widnes in...I wonder if you would have any photos of the vessels use,

And where from maybe or cargo's carried....was it a tricky dock to enter....I suppose it was a slack water entry....any small bits of info you can remember would be of much interest,

The river does flow like a train up there.

Nick.


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## Barrie Youde

Hi, Nick,

Now you are asking! As to size, it was at a time when a great many coasters were of 499 tons gross, and anything visiting West Bank Dock was substantially smaller than that. Probably about two-thirds of that size.

As I recall (and I might be quite wrong) there was no lock - merely a gateway. The gateway would be open for a short while (say forty five minutes) before high water until high water; and then closed at high water. The dock was, I think, approximately square.

Cargoes? The general merchandise of any small coastal port. For sure, there was no regular liner service that I can recall!

Hope this helps.


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## nickjaxe

It does thanks Barrie...yes just a gateway makes sense,

And your correct it was more or less square....you could still see its out line after bring filled in for many years.

Nick.


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## Barrie Youde

Phew! Thank you, Nick. It's a long time ago!

An occasion which I do remember vividly was a night when I did not go to West Bank Dock .

I had piloted a German coaster from Point Lynas to the Ship Canal at Eastham. At eight knots, it was a long haul and it had been a long day. We arrived at Eastham at about 2200 and I duly went home.

At 0900 there was a telephone call from the Pilot Office. "The Superintendent of Pilotage would like you to come to the office as soon as possible to explain your pilotage of the mv Humpledink (real name forgotten) yesterday."

Oo eck. What has gone wrong?

On arrival at the Pilot Office in Liverpool it became clear that the Superintendent had been known to be of a sunnier disposition than he was that morning.

"Why," he asked "is the Humpledink in the Manchester Ship Canal?"

"Because the Master asked me to take him there."

"The ship is bound for West Bank Dock! The agent is hopping mad!"

"The Master told me that he was bound for Eastham and, I think, Weston Point."

(This was long before VHF communications, when things became easy to confirm at a moment's notice; and many ships went to Weston Point.)

Quaking in my boots, it then dawned on me that my service-note from last night was still in my pocket. I drew it out.

The form of the note was (approximately) "Name of Ship - and then details"
"Where bound from? Where bound to?" and then "Piloted from? Piloted to?"

To my enormous relief, there on the service-note, which Captain Humpledink himself had completed in his own distinctly Germanic handwriting, in answer to the question "Where bound to?" he had written WESTON POINT.

End of story. Superintendent reasonably mollified (although I had the distinct feeling that he was gunning for me) and much relief for me!


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## doncontrols

Since you gents haven't mentioned it, I assume the photo in my last post is not the place you are discussing. In which case, would you recognise where it is so that I can name it correctly? Many thanks.


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## Barrie Youde

#12

My apologies, Don. When last I looked at#6 I did not see the word PHOTO.

Now that I see it, I've no reason at all to suppose that it is not West Bank Dock; although there seems to be a large construction (a coal-tip?) in the middle of the dock which I don't recall in the 1960s, when I was there.

PS On looking again, perhaps it is not a coal-tip but it certainly looks like a timber construction of some kind. My own recollection is that the dock was square, with no obstruction.


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## Robert Hilton

Barrie Youde said:


> I made two or three trips to West Bank Dock, but always under the guidance of the redoubtable Captain Vivian Thomas.
> BY


Woule he be the Vivian who later piloted small coasters up the Weaver canal to Anderton?


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## doncontrols

No problem, Barrie, it was always a link, but I edited it to say 'photo' to make it more obvious. It's just with it saying West Dock on the slide, that is what I always assumed it must be. But, of course, photographers of old were not always correct with their description ...


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## Barrie Youde

#14

The very same, Robert.

Best

BY


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## sidsal

Very interesting. Barrie will have some great memories I'm sure.
On a lighter note I remember when I was at sea (ww2 and after) a Liverpool song about a young lad going to sea with his mother being very concerned about him. It was a poem about storm and tempest but the voyage was from Liverpool to Manchester. I only remember snippets - as follows 
"When we got up to Runcorn Bridge
The rain began to snow
The wind blew out the candle light
And the engine would't go"

Another snippet - "And we set sail

For Walton jail
Along the Ship Canal"

There were many verses and mentioned all the places on the canal - Latchford locks etc.
I wish I had made a record because these pearls get lost and should be preserved for posterity .


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## Barrie Youde

Hi, Sid,

You are stirring memories of a particularly fine vessel named Britannia (no, not that one). 

The Britannia of which I speak was a steam-powered river-craft of great vintage engaged, as far as I can recall, in carrying just about anything between any two points between Manchester and Gladstone Dock. I remember her only from my apprenticeship days. So old was she that the tale was recounted of her being in a near-collision with a coaster one night and Britannia's master was heard to hail from his open wheel-house window, "Can't you see us?? We've got electric effing lights and you still can't see us!!

On another occasion Britannia shared Alfred Lock with the pilot cutter, both inward bound. It was our docking night one winter, after three weeks at sea and spirits were naturally high. When the inner gates opened, Britannia steamed out first, bound for the West Float. As she was getting under way, one of our lot called out, "Give my regards to the Queen Mother!"


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## nickjaxe

doncontrols....I'm sorry but I missed your post altogether....glad you mentioned it as that indeed is the place....the first picture I have ever seen of it...many thanks indeed....where an earth did you find it,

Dont suppose you have any more or for that matter any more info about the operation of West Bank Dock.

Nick.


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## doncontrols

nickjaxe said:


> doncontrols....I'm sorry but I missed your post altogether....glad you mentioned it as that indeed is the place....the first picture I have ever seen of it...many thanks indeed....where an earth did you find it,
> 
> Dont suppose you have any more or for that matter any more info about the operation of West Bank Dock.
> 
> Nick.


Sorry, Nick, I don't have anything else. The picture is from a glass negative I bought some time ago - purely for the picture, not the location!
As you can see from Eddyw's comment, the Assurance was around for a good while, so there is not much help there in dating the picture.
Sorry, I'm not of much help to you, but at least you can see the picture


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## doncontrols

Okay, Nick, this stirred my interest a little - have you seen this?


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## bob2bob

Frank77 has a photo in Ports and Harbours titled "Marsh Lock " which is West Bank dock.


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## nickjaxe

bob2bob can you point me in the right direction to the marsh lock picture...I cant find ports and harbours.

Don that link was very interesting....getting a much better understanding what went on there now.

Nick.

Nick.


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## nickjaxe

Its ok Bob I have found it...unfortunately its not West Bank Dock.

Nick.


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## bob nightingale

Was at Eddarbridge today but could not get all the way to river.
Site is now a massive tesco warehouse,area towards river is a large tesco recycling plant.
Bob.


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## bob2bob

http://www.shipsnostalgia.com/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/366588/title/marsh-lock/cat/505
hope this helps. John


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## nickjaxe

Bob I do apologise...but in fact it prob is West Bank Dock....I had a walk down there this morning and I could see the remains of the dock entrance seen in that picture...

I was thinking there was only one entrance and had forgot about the one in the picture,

Thank for the link...I have copied the picture now. 

Nick.


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## nickjaxe

bob nightingale....That's a coincidence I was down there as well this morning around 8am,

Indeed Stobarts have a very large development but you can still access the river...there is in fact there is a cycle path that runs all the way along the river bank...but without knowing the route to it you may think access is bared....if you drive down the roadway next to the railway viaduct with it on your left to the very end you come to a turning area...park there and walk across the grass to the river...the grass you walk over was in the middle of the dock before it was filled in,

Or you can walk from the Spike Island area along the same cycle way,

The 2 entrances are still there to be seen...along with the remains of what looks to have been a coaster long ago scrapped but at low water the rear end is still visible...love to seen some pictures of that before it was cut up.

Nick.


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## bob nightingale

Nick,
Was in the turning area,but not too good walking any distance.
I thought I was in the dock,wanted to get to river to see entrance and get photo.Will go in summer.
Bob.


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## nickjaxe

Bob an easier route would be to park at the top of Parsonage Rd which is off Mersey Rd which is a continuation of St Mary's Rd in West Bank Widnes...its only about 50 yds to walk then on a proper path.

Nick.


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## bob nightingale

Nick,
Thanks for that,I will use the route you suggest,
Might see you there or on the dock estate.
I am frequently at west Langton.
I have a yard at East Hornby dock.
Bob.


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## nickjaxe

Coincidence...my job takes me to the company right next to Langton Lock (Dong Energy) they are installing the wind generators out in the bay....I just love being around the old dock system,

I see your also in transport like me.

Nick.


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## nickjaxe

Bob don't expect to be able to see much of the old dock...just the remains of the 2 entrances/exits,

Next time I'm out on my bike I will take a few pics of what's left....Pity really would have made a fine marina,

Good views of it and the outline of what remains of the ship on the river bank just outside the old dock on Google Earth...ship seems to have a beam of 10.5mtrs and the entrance is around 11 mtrs using the measuring tool on Google Earth.

Pity really.

Nick.


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## nickjaxe

Not a bad day so I went for a ride on my bike and took my camera,

A few more to follow.

nick.


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## nickjaxe

A few more.

Unfortunatly all that is left of West Bank Dock.


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## nickjaxe

2 more.


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## Runrig

There are two articles about the port of Widnes, fully illustrated with superb photographs, in the Ships in Focus Record series. They are in Record 9 and Record 10.

These two articles will tell you all that you need to know. By the way, one of the photographs shows Vivian Thomas on board a ship. Others show ships in the dock and entering/leaving.

They booklets are available here:
http://www.coastalshipping.co.uk/sh...ships-in-focus-record-no-9-9781901703047.html

http://www.coastalshipping.co.uk/sh...hips-in-focus-record-no-10-9781901703061.html


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## nickjaxe

Many thanks Runrig...its my birthday next month so guess what I'm getting,

Just what I'm looking for...thanks again.

Nick.


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## nickjaxe

Runrig got the 2 books this morning...your right some very good photos...not read the articals yet but very pleased with the quality...many thanks for the tip off,

Barrie Youde nice photo of Vivian...would you be interested in a copy of him.

Nick.


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## Barrie Youde

#39
Thank you, Nick.

He was always Captain Thomas to me. I remember him as a man who was good at his job.


B


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## nickjaxe

A very striking looking guy he is to...leave it with me Barrie.


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## IanAM

Very interesting thread, thank you. I don't know how much help it is but if you visit, 

http://www.old-maps.co.uk/maps.html 

and type Macdermott Road, Widnes into the search box, a list of maps available, with samples, shows to the right of the big map . There's 3 at 1:2500 (different dates) which clearly show the West Bank Dock and its entrances.


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## Barrie Youde

For what it might be worth, my recollection of West Bank Dock is that it was downstream of the railway bridge. This for two reasons:-

1. I have no recollection at all of ever having passed underneath the bridge. Even though some forty-five years have passed since I ever went to the Dock, I'm fairly confident that I would recall something as dramatic as passing underneath the bridge.

2. To the present day it is my habit (reaction?) when travelling to London from Lime Street by train to look out of the starboard side when about to cross the bridge from Widnes to Runcorn, in the hope of seeing some remnant of the dock. Until about 1990, I seem to recall that it was quite clearly visible. My memory is that it was quite close downstream of the bridge - and substantially less than a mile. Less than half a mile would be my guess.


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## IanAM

Check out this old OS map...

http://wtp2.appspot.com/wheresthepa...81945&lon=-2.7422029370501195&gz=14&oz=9&gt=6

alongside the current map.


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## nickjaxe

I would say within 200 mtrs of the rail bridge Barrie...only the entrance exit gates remain,

Love the terminology starboard side of the train...I bet you will never loose it.

Nick.


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## Barrie Youde

#45

Thank you, Nick.

200 metres. Yes, I'll buy that.

B


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## Runrig

OK, Nick. I thought these booklets would be ideal for you.


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## nickjaxe

Here you go Barrie..photo for you...had to downgrade the quality to be able to post it on here.

Nick.


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## Barrie Youde

Many thanks, Nick.

That is certainly Vivian Thomas as I remember him.

The photograph on the left, however, does not show West Bank Dock as I knew it. Perhaps the photograph is at the locks etc at the upstream side of Runcorn Bridge, also called "West Bank" on some charts/maps? Or somewhere else altogether? Were the photographs taken in 1999? Surely not? If so, Captain Thomas certainly weathered well! And there were not many coasters of that design left by 1999. My guess is that the photographs were taken much earlier.

Also, are you sure that the Donau was a Dutchman? It is a very German name. Although the ship certainly looks Dutch-built. Similarly, the Master and the Mate look quite extraordinarily smart for trade in that part of the world!

Any further information as to the photographs would be greatly appreciated.

B


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## nickjaxe

Barrie that picture is I'm pretty sure one of the 2 the entrance to west Bank Dock...the way I read it...in 1999 Viv was the only pilot certified to take vessels up the River Weaver not sure why the mention that,

But that picture must have been take prior to 1970 when the dock closed....indeed the Donau unfortunately sank in 1969 according to this web site,

http://www.wrecksite.eu/wreck.aspx?716 

looks like the same ship in the photo,

I can scan some more of the pictures for you if you like...lots more in this book....maybe better sending them direct to you...don't want to upset the Author....but that's the only one of Vivian I'm afraid.

Nick.


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## Barrie Youde

Very many thanks, Nick!

All now makes sense, except for the location of the photograph on the left, which doesn't seem to fit with anything at Widnes, 200 metres downstream of Runcorn Bridge?

B


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## nickjaxe

The remnants of that entrance in the picture are still there Barrie along with another entrance 100mts away...if you have a look at one of my earlier posts I attached some pictures showing the one in the photo.

Nick.


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## Barrie Youde

Many thanks, Nick.

I can understand that the photograph might show the scene at Widnes on the upstream side of the Bridge. Is that what it is?


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## Runrig

Barrie Youde said:


> Many thanks, Nick.
> 
> That is certainly Vivian Thomas as I remember him.
> 
> The photograph on the left, however, does not show West Bank Dock as I knew it. Perhaps the photograph is at the locks etc at the upstream side of Runcorn Bridge, also called "West Bank" on some charts/maps? Or somewhere else altogether? Were the photographs taken in 1999? Surely not? If so, Captain Thomas certainly weathered well! And there were not many coasters of that design left by 1999. My guess is that the photographs were taken much earlier.
> 
> Also, are you sure that the Donau was a Dutchman? It is a very German name. Although the ship certainly looks Dutch-built. Similarly, the Master and the Mate look quite extraordinarily smart for trade in that part of the world!
> 
> Any further information as to the photographs would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> B


The Donau was built in 1953 by A. Apol at Wirdum in Holland, owned by F & T Drijfhout of Delfzijl and managed by Wagenborg. So most definitely a Dutch coaster.


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## Robert Hilton

I also remember Vivian Thomas piloting to Anderton. Thanks for the confirmatory photograph.


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## Neilb

*Capt. Viv Thomas* Contrary to reports I remember in another forum, I am pleased to say that Capt Thomas is still with us, I spoke to him today (Jan. 10th 2014). I shall be meeting him on Monday (Jan 13th) - if anybody would like me to pass on their regards I am sure he would be happy to receive them ! Cheers, Neil


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## Barrie Youde

Hi, Neil,

Yes, do please give my best wishes to Captain Thomas!

He probably won't remember me but I remember him very well indeed!

Happy days! I hope that he is in good health.

Best wishes,

BY


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## Neilb

Thanks Barrie,

It will be my pleasure to do that. Wandering a couple of miles off topic, you haven't got any photos of ships in / off Weston Mersey Lock or any of the other river locks off the MSC have you ? I've never seen such a photo yet and am beginning to wonder if one was ever taken !

Regards
Neil


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## alan ward

nickjaxe said:


> Its an interesting walk over that side Pat....with the remains of what looks to be a fair sized coaster just above the low water mark and very near the area of the old dock and the remains of its lock gates...it was cut up there for scrap there....would be interested in seeing what it was and its size before they got the gas axe on it....only ever seen plesure craft on that part of the river,
> 
> The path that runs along side the river is part of trans Pennine way and leads up to Pickerings pasture if you are familiar,
> 
> There is a large monolith with a plaque just the other side of the newish footbridge that crosses Ditton Brook with information on it telling of the last commercial traffic the did come that far up river....would love to have seen those comings and goings.
> 
> Nick.


The most inland point on the river was Bridge Foot in Warrington I belive there was a ship breakers there in the late 18c


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## nickjaxe

Actually been up river to bridge foot Alan when I owned a 15ft inflatable many years ago...an interesting ride it was to....went a bit further than bridge foot...to Howley Weir about 0.5ml further,

Seem to remember reading that there was a packet steamer sailed from bridge foot in the 1800s...that must have taken some navigating up the Mersey.

Nick.


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## alan ward

Howley Weir,that brings back memories! mainly of foam from the detergent run off from Lever Brothers about 5 foot high.One of the brewers we use is on Howley Quay.
Northwestern Farmers Mill was adjacent to that weir and caused the area(Howley)to have one of the highest incidence of lung problems in Lancashire.
My OM and his new wife moved to Warrington for a short disastrous time,he left both her and the town.


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## Ken Glasdir

Happy hunting Nick. I was in West Bank late fifties - Coppack's Normanby Hall with stone dust from the north Wales quarries. Mostly Cooper's barges there then. Remember a pub known as the Sludge Hole - nice time.
Ken Glasdir


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## nickjaxe

Hi Ken,

The Sludge Hole...that sounds nice...did it go by another Name I wonder and where was it in West Bank??

What can you tell me about the opperation of Coopers bardges Ken.

Nick.


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## Oakesy

*Postcard of West Bank Dock*

I found an old postcard of West Bank Dock (apparently the same photographer as the previous one I saw on this thread - B Kelsall). I tried to find the location where the original photographer stood, I took a now picture from close by. Then I merged them to show the scene then and now. I also have an image from a 1907 map overlayed on present day google maps to shoe where the dock was. It is now a Tesco distribution warehouse. Actually, on that map I have put a red dot showing where I stood to take the present day picture, and a green dot to show where the postcard photographer stood. Also, I have attached a picture of the dock gates as they were yesterday 30/8/2014


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## nickjaxe

I know which view I would rather have of the choice in picture 1...very sad little remains,

Did you notice the remains of the coaster that is laying just outside what would have been the dock in the river...scrapped quite some time ago....I would love to know something of it...a photo would be great...I expect Sammy Evans may have cut it up.

Nick.


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## Oakesy

I didn't walk up to the western gate, so I didn't see if the coaster was there still. The western gate must have been constructed after 1907, it isn't shown on the map I have from that time.


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## Waterways

An old thread, but more info. Some aero photos of West Bank Dock, Widnes. The dock was "L" shaped, with two gates. The picture of the Dutch coaster earlier in the thread is not in West Bank Dock. There was a long thin reservoir that followed the curved railway viaduct, to top up the dock. There was also one above the old Widnes Dock on the other side of the bridge on Spike Island that was filled in, in the 1930s. This historic dock was unearthed a few feet and filled with water, showings its original quays.

http://www.britainfromabove.org.uk/image/eaw046911


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## Flintite

Hi Nick,
I have just come across your post and it brought back fond memories of my visits to Westbank in Widnes both during and after the war. My mother was born and raised in the area (Wright Street ) and I used to visit my grand parents , uncle, aunts and cousins. 
Would you believe that was a "holiday" in those times?
A cousin of mine, who was a real dare devil, used to take me into the docks and show off by climbing aboard a vessel, clamber up a mast and then dive into the dock! He later became a rugby league player for Widnes and was team captain one season. His father was I believe, a skipper on one of the coasters using the dock.
Thanks for bring back these memories.


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## nickjaxe

Long time since I last visited this thread...2 posts I have not seen before.

Many thanks to Waterways and Flintite.

Those areial photos are fantastic.

I did enjoy reading all the posts again.

Biggish tide on the river today...from my house on the side of Runcorn hill I can see quite a bit of the river inc they old West Bank Dock Area.

Hope all the contributors are all safe and well.

Nick.

email nickjaxe at ntlworld.com


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