# Glasgow nautical College student.



## Timmo (7 mo ago)

Hi, this is my first post on this forum. I am trying to trace anyone who knew my relative Donald Tracey who attended the Glasgow Nautical College from August 1969 to Jan 1972. He was a junior RO and was employed by Marconi international Marine when he left college.
I have been trying to find out about him but sadly he died at sea, we don’t know when or where.
I obtained a copy of his sea pouch from the National Archives at Kew which contained just a few papers and his picture and his BSC. I have contacted the uk shipping registry but they require the name of the ship he served on when he died which I Don’t have. I was hoping he kept in contact with his RO colleagues. I would appreciate any assistance or Help in trying to find out about his death. Which would be after 1972.


----------



## GM4CAM (Aug 20, 2007)

According to ScotlandsPeople a death of a Scottish person at sea on a British registered merchant ship would be recorded in the Minor Records as a Marine Return. I had a look but could find no mention of Donald Tracey so it's possible it was recorded as English and you might have to grapple with their BMD system(!). I was at GCNS around the same time. The name rings a bell but that's as far as it goes. I can check with a buddy who was in my class... You could also try the Marconi archive at the Bodlean (sp?) Library at Oxford. I acquired the Marconi Service Record for an R/O that I am researching from Marconi at Chelmsford before their records were transferred to the Bodlean. That _might_ get the ship name for starters....

edit : MIMCO archive = Archives of the Marconi International Marine Communication Company Ltd. , 1900-98 | Bodleian Archives & Manuscripts


----------



## Timmo (7 mo ago)

GM4CAM said:


> According to ScotlandsPeople a death of a Scottish person at sea on a British registered merchant ship would be recorded in the Minor Records as a Marine Return. I had a look but could find no mention of Donald Tracey so it's possible it was recorded as English and you might have to grapple with their BMD system(!). I was at GCNS around the same time. The name rings a bell but that's as far as it goes. I can check with a buddy who was in my class... You could also try the Marconi archive at the Bodlean (sp?) Museum in Cambridge. I acquired the Marconi Service Record for an R/O that I am researching from Marconi at Chelmsford before their records were transferred to the Bodlean. That _might_ get the ship name for starters....


GM4CAM, thank you for your reply. I did email Scotlandspeople as Donald was born in Glasgow, but, they have no record of his death or death at sea. I also paid for a search on the GRO website submitting different years, but no luck, if I had a decade of death that would help. Donald was 6 feet tall, brown hair and eyes.
A kind member sent me a link for the Marconi Mariner where it’s mentioned that he joined the company around June 1972. (D.T.Tracey) his middle name was Thompson.You mentioned the Marconi Service Record for an R/O, can I ask you what information exactly would be entered on this card, I was looking at Bodleian website at Oxford yesterday. Having the correct terminology for searches would be a big help.
They also have Staff records but not sure what information would be on them or if the ordinary public can access these.


----------



## BobDixon (Oct 17, 2008)

Hi Don,

Like you I've been having a wee look into Don Tracey and corresponding with Tim. I was at GCNS at around the same time and, if I remember correctly, I think Don Tracey would have been one of the class which transferred from The Watt Memorial College the year GCNS opened. I would have affectively been in the class behind him, one of the first students to go directly to GCNS & into the new MRGC.

For Tim, there is a possible other factor in this hunt which is that Don will not necessarily have remained with Maroni Marine. Because pay was often a bit better elsewhere some RO's chose to change company, sometimes into another radio company such as IMR or Kelvin Hughes, sometimes into shipping company direct employ and sometimes freelance. Again, Maroni records might hold at least clue to whether he remained with the company or resigned at some time.

As we know, Don GM4CAM was spot on in saying that the deaths of Scottish seamen on UK registered vessels would normally get back to the Scottish records one way or another (even if originally recorded elsewhere in UK records). If he was on a foreign registered vessel the route of notification might be very different - I think the norm would be in Consular reports, which should eventually end up in official records, but that might be quite variable depending on flag of registry and the country to where the death was reported. 

73 de Bob GM3ZDH


----------



## Michael Kirwan (Mar 18, 2006)

Timmo said:


> Hi, this is my first post on this forum. I am trying to trace anyone who knew my relative Donald Tracey who attended the Glasgow Nautical College from August 1969 to Jan 1972. He was a junior RO and was employed by Marconi international Marine when he left college.
> I have been trying to find out about him but sadly he died at sea, we don’t know when or where.
> I obtained a copy of his sea pouch from the National Archives at Kew which contained just a few papers and his picture and his BSC. I have contacted the uk shipping registry but they require the name of the ship he served on when he died which I Don’t have. I was hoping he kept in contact with his RO colleagues. I would appreciate any assistance or Help in trying to find out about his death. Which would be after 1972.


As mentioned by someone else I see D. T. Tracey mentioned in the Marconi Mariner of May/June 1972 under appointments. These magazines are all on line https://themarconifamily.pbworks.com/w/page/130372746/Mariner Volumes 2 
You should e mail the Bodleian library for his Marconi record. It will give his date of joining and the ships he served on.
I will check a few ship lists and get back.
Regards
Michael


----------



## Timmo (7 mo ago)

Hi Michael,

Thank you for this information, sorry about the delay in getting back to you as I got struck down with COVID. Michael, I have been in communication with the Bodleian Library at Oxford who have informed me that I must first apply for a Card Reader. I am in the process of doing this, not as easier than I thought it would be. You state that his Marconi record will show what ships he served on, I believe they are called radio officers cards and are in alphabetical order. Do you know or any other person on this forum know, if there is any other do***entation I should be searching for while at the library that may give me any details of his death Or other information.
regards,

Tim


----------



## John Gowers (Jul 18, 2018)

Timmo,
Try on 'Merchant Navy old friends' there are also a few guys on there who are great at researching MN history.






The British Merchant Navy - Old Friends Plus


This is a discussion forum and picture gallery for those interested in the British Merchant Navy and all things nautical



www.merchant-navy.net


----------



## Timmo (7 mo ago)

Hi John,

Thank you, I took your advice and put a post on that forum with Amazing results which are still developing.

Donald was employed by Marconi Marine international around May/June 1972 In the U.K. In December 1972 he arrived by plane at Sydney airport giving a location of Sydney as where he will be staying for the next 12 months. But what surprised me was he ticked the box to stay permanently in Australia.

I don’t know if he left Marconi or would he have be posted there? I have emailed the Marconi school of wireless Association to see if he attended there.

I should have some more information next week. I still intend to go to the Bodleian Library in Oxford to do a search of the Marconi Radio Officers Cards.

I have also been given a reference at the National Archives for another search for a form called CSR10 .This search will be a few weeks for I know if any paperwork was filed there

be in touch and thank you everybody for your help to-date


----------



## Timmo (7 mo ago)

Here is an update, it would appear that although Donald Travelled to Australia in December 1972 according to the NSW records he died sometime in 1974. Hope to have further information about his death on Monday 18th. 

So sad to think his dream was to become a Radio Officer and see the world, so young to die.


----------



## Timmo (7 mo ago)

I have ordered the death details for Donald from the NSW Australian bmd government dept, cost $35 for an electronic copy to be emailed, this process takes 2 weeks, will
update the forum when I have any new information, may search for any details on the NSW burial index in the meantime.


----------



## Michael Kirwan (Mar 18, 2006)

Timmo said:


> Hi Michael,
> 
> Thank you for this information, sorry about the delay in getting back to you as I got struck down with COVID. Michael, I have been in communication with the Bodleian Library at Oxford who have informed me that I must first apply for a Card Reader. I am in the process of doing this, not as easier than I thought it would be. You state that his Marconi record will show what ships he served on, I believe they are called radio officers cards and are in alphabetical order. Do you know or any other person on this forum know, if there is any other do***entation I should be searching for while at the library that may give me any details of his death Or other information.
> regards,
> ...


Tim,
Sorry to hear you got Covid and I hope you have made a full recovery. 
Sad to hear Donald died so young. I got a few Marconi records over the years from the Bodleian library for a small fee. You shouldn't have to go there as you should be able to order on line.
I checked the British Newspaper Archives for a death notice without success. Such a pity the ship appointments page is missing from the Marconi Marine after he was appointed. 
I will look for my father's record and upload it in the coming days
Michael/EI3KO


----------



## Michael Kirwan (Mar 18, 2006)

Michael Kirwan said:


> Tim,
> Sorry to hear you got Covid and I hope you have made a full recovery.
> Sad to hear Donald died so young. I got a few Marconi records over the years from the Bodleian library for a small fee. You shouldn't have to go there as you should be able to order on line.
> I checked the British Newspaper Archives for a death notice without success. Such a pity the ship appointments page is missing from the Marconi Marine after he was appointed.
> ...


Tim,
Attached is page 1 of my father's Marconi record. It shows the ships he served on.
Also, I suggest you contact the Radio Officers Association as they publish a journal four times a year and will put details out to members 
The Radio Officers' Association – Marine, Aeronautical and Coast Station Radio Officers 
Best of luck with your research
Michael


----------



## Timmo (7 mo ago)

Hi Michael, Thank you so much for your assistance on this matter. The attachment of your father’s record with Marconi was very interesting. I note it had detail's like dob, ships served,
start date and date of termination. I will certainly track down Donald’s Radio officer service card at the Bodleian Library. I have been in contact with them as they do a copying service, but this service is done on a case by case basis which takes 2 to 3 weeks, so I have been told. This is not a problem for me as I am only a 15 minute journey by local train from the Bodleian Library. I have searched the Marconi index on line and have singled out the Radio officers cards and resignations files for my research. I am waiting to hear from the National Archives at Kew to see if Donald had a CRS 10 filed there. I will keep you updated, thank you again.


----------



## Michael Kirwan (Mar 18, 2006)

Tim,
Good to hear you are making progress and that the Bodleian Library is near to you.
I suggest you contact the Radio Officers Association as well via the contact link on their webpage.
They have members in Glasgow that may have gone to college with him.


The Radio Officers' Association – Marine, Aeronautical and Coast Station Radio Officers


Attached is a copy of the appointments page on the Marconi Mariner May/June 1972.
Best of luck
Mike


----------



## Timmo (7 mo ago)

Further update, I have just received an email from the National Archives at Kew, the 2nd search that I have paid for has produced further do***ents that can be copied. There are 2 A3 pages. This might be the CRS 10 form. This should show details from the date of Donald’s employment with Marconi from May1972 to Dec1972. Should hear something no later than the 15th August.


----------



## Timmo (7 mo ago)

Further update, I have just received an email from the National Archives at Kew, the 2nd search that I have paid for has produced further do***ent's that can be copied. There are 2 A3 pages. This might be the CRS 10 form. This should show details from the date of Donald’s employment with Marconi from May1972 to Dec1972. Should hear something no later than the 15th August.


----------



## Timmo (7 mo ago)

Are there any Radio Officers who can tell me what the MPT M/243 certificate stands for and what was involved. Did you have to any qualifications to sit this course? Donald took this two year course and finished in 1972 with the above certificate.


----------



## BobDixon (Oct 17, 2008)

Timmo said:


> Are there any Radio Officers who can tell me what the MPT M/243 certificate stands for and what was involved. Did you have to any qualifications to sit this course? Donald took this two year course and finished in 1972 with the above certificate.


MPT is Minister of Posts and Telecommunications.
This would be Don's MRGC - Maritime Radiocommunications General Certificate - which was the certificate which enabled him to become a Radio Officer (at the back of the certificate was his Authority to Operate which could be updated from time to time - or could be revoked!)
M is the telecommunications conference under which the certificate was issued, the letter representing the place it was held this one being the Plenipotentiary Conference in Montreux,1965 I think. This, together with the figures, is the number of his operating certificate.

His certificate details would be recorded on official ships do***ents.

The certificate was the qualification obtained after two years study at the college.


----------



## Timmo (7 mo ago)

Hi Bob & Michael, thank you both for the information you sent. I have been away for a couple of weeks, on my return I had an email from the National Archives with my search results for Donald’s CRS. After qualifying at the Glasgow Nautical college in January 1972 he was employed by Marconi. According to CRS he served on 3 ships.

Graigallian 300498, engagement 1-5-72 place B-head, discharge 11-7-72 M-bro.
Graigallian 300498, engagement 11-7-72 place B- head, discharge 22-8-72 M-bro.
Asia Freighter 343235, engagement 13-1072, place Clyde, discharge 11-11-72.

all of the above signed off with Very good Character. The following month he went to Australia and died 18 months later. I will be making a call this evening about his death to a very distant relative who has some more info about Donald. 

I will still go to the Bodeleian Library in Oxford and search the Marconi radio officers employment cards to see if any reason is given for him leaving or going to Australia.

will keep you all updated.


----------



## John Gowers (Jul 18, 2018)

You have a misprint there it is Craigallian not Graigallian both ships were managed by J&J Denholm of Glasgow






Motor Vessel CRAIGALLIAN built by Charles Connell & Company in 1959 for Scottish Ore Carriers Ltd. - J. & J. Denholm Management Ltd., Greenock, Bulk Carrier


Motor Vessel CRAIGALLIAN built by Charles Connell & Company in 1959 for Scottish Ore Carriers Ltd. - J. & J. Denholm Management Ltd., Greenock, Bulk Carrier Arrived at Inchon for breaking by Sang Yong Trading Co.Ltd.



www.clydeships.co.uk


----------



## Timmo (7 mo ago)

John Gowers said:


> You have a misprint there it is Craigallian not Graigallian both ships were managed by J&J Denholm of Glasgow
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you for pointing that out John


----------



## Timmo (7 mo ago)

Update as promised. Latest information, having been in contact with a distant relative it was stated at the time, that Donald had Drowned at Sea, in fact this was incorrect. Donald had taken his own life in the North Ryde Psychiatric hospital in North Ryde Sydney NSW Australia. It is conjecture that he was being accused for something he didn’t do, This is very sad. If anyone has any information about Donald’s situation in Sydney from Dec 1972 to Oct 1974 please could you let us know.


----------



## BobDixon (Oct 17, 2008)

Tim,

Received the following on the Ancestry system today

Marian gray
TODAY
MG
www.ipc.nsw.gov.au
www.ipc.nsw.gov.au
British Consulates Abroad - information and addresses of all British Consulates abroad - UK and Britisch Representatives Abroad
www.british-consulate.net

Hello Mr Dixon, Hoping you don't mind relaying a message to your friend Timothy Kay re his relative Donald Thompson Tracey. I was helping him via a British Merchant Navy forum and having read his recent message on Donald's demise today tried to locate further info for Timothy to research. The links below may be of some help in assisting him in his quest. Thank you for taking the trouble to read this.

Kindest Regards, Marian Gray


Freecall: 1800 472 679. from OZ only.
Email: [email protected].
Website: www.ipc.nsw.gov.au.

Patient records are normally only kept for 7yrs after their death....however Timothy could try the links below and have the death cert at the ready.



https://www.ipc.nsw.gov.au/fact-sheet-access-deceased-persons-health-information



The British Consulate in Sydney
British Consulate - British Consulates Abroad › uk › United-Kingdo...
Contact Details: British Consulate General in Sydney, Australia Level 16, The Gateway 1 Macquarie Place Sydney New South Wales 2000 Australia. Website:.


----------



## Michael Kirwan (Mar 18, 2006)

Timmo said:


> Hi Bob & Michael, thank you both for the information you sent. I have been away for a couple of weeks, on my return I had an email from the National Archives with my search results for Donald’s CRS. After qualifying at the Glasgow Nautical college in January 1972 he was employed by Marconi. According to CRS he served on 3 ships.
> 
> Graigallian 300498, engagement 1-5-72 place B-head, discharge 11-7-72 M-bro.
> Graigallian 300498, engagement 11-7-72 place B- head, discharge 22-8-72 M-bro.
> ...


Tim,

Great work so far.

That is very interesting. When I joined Marconi Marine in 1974 I was sent to the Liverpool office. I was going to be assigned to the Craigallian owned by Denholm Ship Management. It was docked it Workington, ***bria. At the last minute I was sent to join the MV Novelist in Liverpool. Donald seems to have left Marconi Marine after he completed his 6 months training as a Junior Radio Officer.
It will be interesting to hear what he did in Australia.


----------



## Michael Kirwan (Mar 18, 2006)

Michael Kirwan said:


> Tim,
> 
> Great work so far.
> 
> ...


Tim,
I looked up The Sydney Morning Herald newspaper for 1972 and I see there was an advertisement from the Overseas Telecommunications Commission looking for Radio Officers for coast stations. I know of one Radio Officer that left the sea and joined Sydney Radio around that time. Perhaps that is where Donald got work.

Michael


----------



## Timmo (7 mo ago)

Michael, thank you for this information, this is quite possible that he may have applied to the OTC considering he was intending to live in Sidney Australia. I have already sent an email to the OTC veterans association which I found on line after reading your posting, requesting a contact email address. Hopefully they will respond in a few days. Thanks for your efforts.


----------



## Michael Kirwan (Mar 18, 2006)

Timmo said:


> Michael, thank you for this information, this is quite possible that he may have applied to the OTC considering he was intending to live in Sidney Australia. I have already sent an email to the OTC veterans association which I found on line after reading your posting, requesting a contact email address. Hopefully they will respond in a few days. Thanks for your efforts.


Tim,
I sent your request to the archivist in the Radio Officers Association and we will see if he can help.
The Radio Officers' Association – Marine, Aeronautical and Coast Station Radio Officers 

Michael


----------



## Timmo (7 mo ago)

Michael/Bob, I have had a reply from the President of the Overseas Telecommunications Veteran Association, who has informed me that Donald was not on any seniority list for employees. He has passed my email onto an historian of the AWA which I understand is the Australian wireless Association. I will post any updates I receive.


----------



## Michael Kirwan (Mar 18, 2006)

Timmo said:


> Michael/Bob, I have had a reply from the President of the Overseas Telecommunications Veteran Association, who has informed me that Donald was not on any seniority list for employees. He has passed my email onto an historian of the AWA which I understand is the Australian wireless Association. I will post any updates I receive.


Tim,
Thanks for the update and at least you are making progress.
I see elsewhere on this website a few R/O's discussed their time in Glasgow Nautical College.
Perhaps you should try and contact them
Glasgow Nautical College. 
Michael


----------



## Michael Kirwan (Mar 18, 2006)

Timmo said:


> Update as promised. Latest information, having been in contact with a distant relative it was stated at the time, that Donald had Drowned at Sea, in fact this was incorrect. Donald had taken his own life in the North Ryde Psychiatric hospital in North Ryde Sydney NSW Australia. It is conjecture that he was being accused for something he didn’t do, This is very sad. If anyone has any information about Donald’s situation in Sydney from Dec 1972 to Oct 1974 please could you let us know.


Timmo,
I just read over all the posts again and I missed the one about Donald's death in Sydney.
I am so sorry to hear that.
Perhaps the hospital may have some information
Michael


----------

