# Lloyds List and referring to a ship as she/it



## James_C (Feb 17, 2005)

Back in March 2002 Lloyds List announced that they would no longer be referring to ships as "she" within their newspaper but would instead use the term "it" instead.
Now this did bring them a lot of publicity, but at the back of my mind I'm sure that it was announced afterwards that it was actually a spoof/April fool and that nothing would actually change.
Is my memory of this correct? It came up in conversation in the pub last night but I couldn't find any reference to it online today.


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## Andrew Craig-Bennett (Mar 13, 2007)

I do remember it because I was still writing for Lloyd's List at that time. The Editor then was Julian Bray now Editor of Tradewinds and it was his idea (most certainly NOT Michael Grey's).

It was not an April Fool, alas...*

I stopped writing for Lloyd's List soon afterwards because Julian "spiked" a column I had written, over a policy issue. I still think I was right and fortunately for me some colleagues at the paper thought so too and asked me to write a column for them when they left Informa and started on their own.

* Best maritime April Fool I ever saw was the April 1 edition of the South China Morning Post which led with a New Development Plan for Hong Kong Harbour - it was to be reclaimed in full apart from two parallel canals for the Star Ferries to run in...


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## James_C (Feb 17, 2005)

Andrew,
Thanks for that. It was one of those things which came up in conversation and there then ensued a lot of hard thinking by all concerned to no real result - I blame the beer!


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## Varley (Oct 1, 2006)

I too blame the beer. IMO delegates should lay off it if they are going to spend our money on changing things for the sake of change. Ships ARE one of the few breathless things in Queen's English that are gendered. In many other languages everything is gendered so I suppose we should be pleased that they haven't gone the otherway and demand that we refer to steering gear and generators as hes and shes. Will we use the lady radar today or the gentleman? Is that a male or female rock ahead I wonder?


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## Basil (Feb 4, 2006)

In German it's neuter:
Remember 'Das Boot' ?
Lest you ask, it's also das schiff.

I'd thought that, in German, 'car' was masculine but not according to Google.


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## Varley (Oct 1, 2006)

I suppose it would be worse if genders differed between flags. Any additional tendency for attraction between vessels would be counterproductive.


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## China hand (Sep 11, 2008)

I believe "maru" is neutral.


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## tsell (Apr 29, 2008)

Varley said:


> I too blame the beer. IMO delegates should lay off it if they are going to spend our money on changing things for the sake of change. Ships ARE one of the few breathless things in Queen's English that are gendered. In many other languages everything is gendered so I suppose we should be pleased that they haven't gone the otherway and demand that we refer to steering gear and generators as hes and shes. Will we use the lady radar today or the gentleman? Is that a male or female rock ahead I wonder?


Languages are interesting when it comes to gender. France for instance, 'Le and La'... haven't heard any complaints about that yet.

I now hear that the Sex Discrimination Commissioner has been taken to task for addressing her audience in a speech on Gender Equality: "Good morning ladies and gentlemen"...?

Taff


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## Varley (Oct 1, 2006)

Well, Taff. At such a convention perhaps there were none in the audience.


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## trotterdotpom (Apr 29, 2005)

I rather like the convention of calling ships "she" but it did get a bit confusing when the ship had a man's name ... e.g. "Winston Churchill".

John T


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## Samsette (Sep 3, 2005)

trotterdotpom said:


> I rather like the convention of calling ships "she" but it did get a bit confusing when the ship had a man's name ... e.g. "Winston Churchill".John T


Well, he did like to present himself buck naked, on occassion, when having his war cabinet over to No10. Was he trolling?


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## trotterdotpom (Apr 29, 2005)

Samsette said:


> Well, he did like to present himself buck naked, on occassion, when having his war cabinet over to No10. Was he trolling?


Probably just a quaint Old Harrovian tradition, Samsette. 

John T


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## Day Sailor (Nov 9, 2014)

Also of confusion to me (and perhaps others) is vessels called _Port Somewhere_ or _Suchandsuch Bridge_. I hope the vessels never visit their geographical namesake.


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## chadburn (Jun 2, 2008)

tsell said:


> Languages are interesting when it comes to gender. France for instance, 'Le and La'... haven't heard any complaints about that yet.
> 
> I now hear that the Sex Discrimination Commissioner has been taken to task for addressing her audience in a speech on Gender Equality: "Good morning ladies and gentlemen"...?
> 
> Taff


A lot better in my book than " Good Morning you Guys" when addressing a mixed audience, in the past I have taken people to task for using "You Guys" as in "I guess you Guys" in front of a mixed audience.
Today I suppose I would be in the wrong.


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## sibby (Aug 23, 2010)

My wife and I were called guys by a shop assistant not too long ago, I pointed out that my wife was not a man in drag, my wife agreed with my comment. The shop assistant just looked at us with confusion, needless to say we walked out of the shop in disgust. Unfortunately I think it is a losing battle.


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## Mjroots (Mar 10, 2009)

Varley said:


> I suppose it would be worse if genders differed between flags. Any additional tendency for attraction between vessels would be counterproductive.


In Russia, ships are masculine.


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## Naytikos (Oct 20, 2008)

In Greek a ship is masculine but a lifeboat feminine. A rowing boat is neutral.

In practice though, the terms may be used interchangeably; on the bridge of a VLCC one might refer to a smaller vessel by the feminine term and, say, a tug-boat by the neutral.
It's all relative.


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## tsell (Apr 29, 2008)

sibby said:


> My wife and I were called guys by a shop assistant not too long ago, I pointed out that my wife was not a man in drag, my wife agreed with my comment. The shop assistant just looked at us with confusion, needless to say we walked out of the shop in disgust. Unfortunately I think it is a losing battle.


I'm pushing closer to 83 by the day, so I could use a modi*** of respect from shop assistants, however, here on the Gold Coast, it seems to be the friendly way of addressing old farts: "Yeah, no, g'day mate, what can I getcha!" or: ''Ere, troiy this one mate, it'll fitcha better!" or: "See ya mate!"
I used to bridle at being addressed this way, many years ago, but, I eventually came to accept it as I see it as being too late to change the mindset of these young people, as it is ingrained in many of the older ones as well." 
"Knowwatoimean, granddad?"

Cheers, mate! (Wave)

Taff


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## Samsette (Sep 3, 2005)

That you guys term was never used in bygone Liverpool. Youse was the word then.

Your English is so peppered with Americanisms that I cannot understand why some are taking umbridge at any words a lowly cashier might use. I see one post today using the American term hissey-fit - I just hope no one takes it over my observation.

Ta-ra, la.


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