# Drunken sailor assaulted captain (BBC News)



## SN NewsCaster (Mar 5, 2007)

A sailor who got drunk and assaulted his captain on board a ship in waters off Aberdeen is fined £1,000.

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## James MacDonald (Mar 17, 2006)

Rather than send the accused to jail the judge thinks sending him to sea is more appropiate


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## ddraigmor (Sep 13, 2006)

'Fairly long trip' (What? 28 days?) 

' I will fine you..........' as he may 'lose his position'.

What on earth is wrong with the lot of them? He assaults a Master on the bridge.......reports druink for duty.........kicks a bobby.........and he gets a fine and doesn't lose his job (doing aye long trips away the poor wee lamb!)

How things have changed! For looking sideways at some Old Men you get a rollocking. For reporting drunk to duty, 'logged and flogged'. 

I'm glad I'm out it is all I can say!

Jonty


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## Cap'n Pete (Feb 27, 2006)

I wonder where the MCA are on this. Surely they have a duty to investigate breaches of the Merchant Navy Code of Discipline in such cases.


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## James_C (Feb 17, 2005)

Sounds like quite a normal run shore for some people I've sailed with...


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## lochluichart (Aug 24, 2005)

Know some trawler skippers who would have put him in hospital for even thinking about it.
Remember when drunken crewman demanded to be put ashore to go to hospital who in the opinion of skipper was prefectly healthy had after "words" to be landed with a broken jaw!


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## benjidog (Oct 27, 2005)

A drunken sailor eh?

What shal we do with him? Isn't there a song about that? 

Brian


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## ddraigmor (Sep 13, 2006)

I feel sure one of our poetic members - hint, hint - will come up with an up to date version shortly..........


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## Geoff Garrett (May 2, 2006)

There was a time when Shipmasters were issued with a revolver and all all the crew knew it. If any threatening situation arose all he had to do was wave his gun around and any belligerent would b#gger off smartly, this of course in the not so distant times of extended voyaging and far rougher crews than those of today. These days the Captain has to be quick talking member of the Diplomatic Corps with a very thick skin and an extra lock on his door.

Recall one Skipper I sailed with, he told me it was always better he kept his gun in his safe, it took him about 5-10 minutes to open it, if he kept it in his desk drawer he'd shoot a couple of people on every ship he'd sail on.

In the sixties, during the Cultural Revolution in Hong Kong(China), a Master on a RIL ship had his whole Chinese crew kicking his door in, got a bit frightened and took a shot at the first man coming through it, fortunately it only winged him, but in those politically charged times, made for a major "incident". Henceforth all guns were taken off all Hong Kong based ships.


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## jim brindley (Dec 31, 2006)

*one of mine*



James_C said:


> Sounds like quite a normal run shore for some people I've sailed with...


hi james souds like your one of my mob ,cheers jim[=P]


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## trotterdotpom (Apr 29, 2005)

The BBC report makes it appear that he was fined for kicking the policeman and let off the rest. Good luck to his shipmates in Portugal - one day he'll meet his match.

John T.


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## Pat McCardle (Jun 12, 2005)

When did Ship Master's carry guns? I thought this was just fantasy & romance?


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## wully farquhar (Aug 4, 2005)

Hello Pat,I think every ships master had a gun available on ships, always they were locked in the safe in the master's cabin,think it was some kind of tradition(if that is what you want to call it)from long gone days when mutiny was ongoing,but maybe nowadays is different!!


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## K urgess (Aug 14, 2006)

Mostly they were just lumps of rust, neglected and forgotten at the back of the Old Man's safe.
The only one I saw and actually handled was on a small tanker. This revolver could have belonged to the Old Man. 
There was an oily rag and a box at the back of the safe on a Bankboat that I noticed once while removing the secret code books for an exercise. 
Oops, have I just contravened the Official Secrets Act?(EEK) 

The Memsahib, who was with me on the tanker, swears that the Old Man gave me the gun for protection in some backwoods African port when I had to go ashore on ship's business (I was the only one available at the time). 
This I cannot remember but her grey matter tends to work better than mine these days.[=P]
On several ships us nutty officers purchased Daisy BB guns or blank firing replicas and had gun battles around the deck and accomodation. This behaviour normally resulted in a threat from the Old Man to either join in or to shoot the next person who woke him up.


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## Dick S (Feb 10, 2007)

Remember one ship in the early 1970s 'Vulcain' ex French job, converted wine carrier to Bulk, and the French had left a pistol on board, Automatic I think as don't remember any round bit for the bullets. Sparkie threw an old cathode ray tube over the wall and the captain was about to use it as target practise but thought better of it!! He brought it on the Bridge on 2000- 2400 to clean and scared the brown stuff out of me!


Dick


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## Pat McCardle (Jun 12, 2005)

I imagined ships of old, pre 20's, might have had a gun on board but never knew they had them in the 70's. You live & learn.


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## K urgess (Aug 14, 2006)

This, of course can no longer be the case since all possession of "working" handguns is now totally banned in the UK except for official/armed forces/police business.
This just means that all the bad boys have got them instead.
It probably would not be a good idea anyway in today's world. I believe the latest orders about what to do when boarded by pirates is to lie down and kiss butt. This strikes one as being very sensible since any handgun is no match for freely available Kalashnikov firepower.
To go back to the original post. I was once on a ship where a crew member struck the Mate and then went on the bridge and thumped the Old Man. This was during a Panama Canal transit and he was removed by the American Police at the next set of locks. I believe he spent some time in jail for assault. He was not thumped back by the Old Man but was restrained and removed from the bridge by his own shipmates.


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## ddraigmor (Sep 13, 2006)

I well recall Terry Gay, a Mate from Hull - well known to the ex tuggies on here who sailed with United Towing - was a fair old match for any 'beer fuelled bravado' boys who came back from ashore filled with carbonated courage.

On the 'Sealion Columbia' one particularly mouthy AB kept having a verbal 'pop' at Terry for everything from A to Z.......this was in the galley. Terry, after repeated warnings about the issue, picked the said AB up and deposited him bottom down on the hot plate - which the cook always kept on for some strange culinary reason.

Result? No more back chat from that AB! Oh peaceful days!

BTW,. the Old Man just shrugged when it was reported to him, muttering something along the lines of 'He had been warned.......'!

I did see an AB on another Sealion boat take the fire axe to the Old Man's door when he refused him a sub........arrested, charged. Oh and a cook getting ectioned under the Mental Health Act in Great Yarmouth after threatening to 'skin' an AB alive - and meant it. Turned out he was being sought for not reporting back off his hospital leave. 

Drink - the source of many bad incidents!

Jonty


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## tunatownshipwreck (Nov 9, 2005)

On the subject of guns on ships, a US customs officer told me that at least half of the ships they inspected in the 1960s and 1970s had a pistol in the captain's cabin, and those Liberian or Panamanian ships with crews from all over often had rifles.


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## Binnacle (Jul 22, 2005)

There was a Colt .45 in the master's safe on the Polar Maid in 1953. The Carchester trading US/Manchester had a 6.35mm automatic in early seventies. I never declared it to US or UK Customs as it was not my property. Other ships I sailed on, where I wasn't privy to safe contents, may have carried a weapon.


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## Geoff Garrett (May 2, 2006)

What I always find intriguing are the statistics for ships being pirated whilst transiting Mallaca Strait. Of the dozens of ships of all nationalities that have been boarded (and I can include myself here), never to my knowledge has a Russian ship appeared in this statistic. Why never a Russian, are these ships armed? I reckon they might be and the pirates are aware of this and always give them a wide berth.

I must admit that the night the b#ggers boarded me was the one time in my career that I wished I had, had a crew of half-pissed Glaswegians(no disparagement intended, lol).


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## Cap'n Pete (Feb 27, 2006)

I must admit that the night the b#ggers boarded me was the one time in my career that I wished I had, had a crew of half-pissed Glaswegians(no disparagement intended, lol).[/QUOTE]


I could not agree more. However, it is because we no longer carry British rating that we are now targeted by pirates. It is the huge amounts of cash we now have to carry to pay our Eastern European and Asian crew which attract the pirates.

I remember when we had British crews on our ships. You had to order your cash advance 2 weeks before arrival the next port of call, and that's what the captain ordered from the agents. No good asking him the next day if you could have another another sub because his safe would be empty.

When pirates boarded me in the South China Sea they made off with 24,000.00 dollars, all of which was destined to be paid out to my Filipino crew at the end of the month. Even though they knew we'd been attacked, they still came and asked me for their pay at the end of the month.


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## JoK (Nov 12, 2006)

One thing I do not miss about going to sea-dealing with drunken oilers and crew 
In fact, one of the best I was on was a dry ship. The only problem was my oiler was an alcoholic and would run out of booze about 2 weeks into the trip and start drying out. Good thing we were there for only 28 days. I let him off a watch to go ashore and tank up to 99% full. Too bad, because he was an excellent oiler.


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## Binnacle (Jul 22, 2005)

What may be an even worse scenario is sailing as mate with a drunken/alcoholic master. One, I had to remove the fire axe from outside my door, having shifted bonded stores outwith his reach may have unsettled him. I also removed the R/T fuses as the transmitter seemed to attract him when he had the DTs. He settled for sitting on the chartroom setee and rambling into the lifeboat aerial case. I hadn't seen him for a few days when he appeared on the bridge when we were pushing our way through thin ice, he told the pilot he was breaking the ship up. After he departed back to his cabin, the pilot asked me if the captain knew which port we were bound for. I hadn't seen him since we left Dublin and this was now our second port in Norway. One time when we were working cargo, he gave orders to stand by fore and aft, I asked him if he intended to put the dockers ashore in the pilot boat. Happy days.


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## Geoff Garrett (May 2, 2006)

Some of you out there may recall the American LIFE magazine article of some years ago, in the early days of a FOC shipping, of a ship that arrived in Honolulu with a murdered Captain aboard.

The Captain, an alchoholic Norwegian, was in the habit of occasionally locking himself in his cabin for a few days at a time for drinkies.
Whilst on passage across the Pacific, he locked himself in and the Mate got a bit worried after the fourth day, especially after detecting a bad smell coming out from under the door so he forced it and to find the Captain cut up into many pieces, apparently the victim of an axe attack. 

The Mate then took the ship, I think a Panamanian Flag, to the nearest port which was Honolulu, to get police assistance. On arrival there he found that the police were not in the least interested as this incident since it had happened outside their jurisdiction, in International Waters and no US Citizens were involved. As the Captain was a Norwegian, the Norwegian Goverment felt obliged to do something so they sent out a couple of coppers to investigate.

LIFE did a photo shoot of the crew members, a regular rogues gallery of undesirables from all over the planet but principally from Central America. The coppers were no use at all of course, this being a case totally outside of their cultural experience and went back home unable to achieve anything. The Port Authority then ordered the ship off, how she sailed or who sailed aboard her I don't recall but possibly the Mate got some promotion. 

But here there is a moral to this tale, if you want to murder somebody, and get away with it, do it out in International Waters and on an obscure FOC ship.


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## JoK (Nov 12, 2006)

Amazing.


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## tunatownshipwreck (Nov 9, 2005)

Geoff Garrett said:


> Some of you out there may recall the American LIFE magazine article of some years ago, in the early days of a FOC shipping, of a ship that arrived in Honolulu with a murdered Captain aboard.
> 
> The Captain, an alchoholic Norwegian, was in the habit of occasionally locking himself in his cabin for a few days at a time for drinkies.
> Whilst on passage across the Pacific, he locked himself in and the Mate got a bit worried after the fourth day, especially after detecting a bad smell coming out from under the door so he forced it and to find the Captain cut up into many pieces, apparently the victim of an axe attack.
> ...


But if your ship is found with drugs anywhere in international waters, you can and will be tried in a US court.


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## Binnacle (Jul 22, 2005)

An "old man" I sailed with many years ago, had on a previous trip, answered a knock on his door, the chief steward fell in, dead, with a knife in his back. On making inquiries it transpired the galley boy had done the deed. The boy had been busy doing his normal duties before breakfast when the steward appeared and immediately started berating him in a loud and aggressive manner. It transpired that the boy had been bullied by the steward from day one. Unfortunately for the steward the boy's limit of tolerance had been tested one time too many. The ship deviated to the Seychelles, a Crown Colony, where British legal systems operated. The master and other crew members spoke highly of the boy's good character and the extenuating cir***stances related to his behaviour. Justice was done, the boy was given a relatively light prison sentence. He seems to have been well treated by the authorities and locals, as latterly he spent most of his time outwith the prison walls, and on his release he went home to the UK for a visit and returned to live in the Seychelles, hopefully, happily ever after.


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## ddraigmor (Sep 13, 2006)

Binnacle,

I wonder how many people have 'vanished' and the matter put down to poor mental health / stress / end of tolerance / letter from home (etc) when in fact they have been murdered?

Must have gone on.

Jonty


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## trotterdotpom (Apr 29, 2005)

This story was related to me by the Master of 'Overseas Argonaut', an LOF 100,000ton tanker. 

In the late '70s the ship was anchored off Port Gentil, Gabon, on Christmas Day. One of the Goanese stewards almost decapitated the Chief Cook then presented himself to the Captain and apologised for spoiling his Christmas!

The steward was handed over to the local authorities who apparently kept him in the local lockup for a few months then, not knowing what to do with him (foreign ship outside territorial waters), sent him back to India. 

Seems a bit lenient, topping someone and getting away with a "VNC"!

John T.


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## Cap'n Pete (Feb 27, 2006)

Captains getting murdered on foc's with mixed nationality crews is more common than you may think. A friend of mine disappeared over the side a few years ago, even though the weather was good at the time and the sea calm.

Of course, Maxwell disappeared over the side as well as a result of what most people assume was suicide. A had a mate who was one of his crew at the time and he told me that none of them had been paid for months. As good an excuse as I've ever heard to take a long walk on a small ship.

As the captain of a ship with a mixed nationality crew, I try and make sure I do not make any enemies.


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## K urgess (Aug 14, 2006)

This is frightening.
Makes me glad I'm no longer at sea, no longer hold a valid qualification and am just too damn old to put myself in harm's way.
Having said that, nothing changes and if one dredges through the old grey cells one can come up with examples current when we were at sea.


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## John Campbell (Aug 30, 2005)

There was a case in a Bank Line ship from south Seas to London via Panama when the Captain's steward cut the penis off the Tndian Chief Steward who then bled to death. The offender was kept locked in the ship,s hospital and subsequently tried at the Old Bailey. I can not recall the name of the ship but this took placein the late 50,s. It was a traumatic time for all onboard.


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## Pat McCardle (Jun 12, 2005)

Again, the crew are to blame. Some men can only be driven so far, I am afraid that there are some 'Bullies' out there that over step their rank, as what has been said in earlier replies.


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## Geoff Garrett (May 2, 2006)

How many of you are the real 'Bullies' & you over step your rank? Feel free to comment!

No comment.


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## trotterdotpom (Apr 29, 2005)

John Campbell said:


> There was a case in a Bank Line ship from south Seas to London via Panama when the Captain's steward cut the penis off the Tndian Chief Steward who then bled to death. The offender was kept locked in the ship,s hospital and subsequently tried at the Old Bailey. I can not recall the name of the ship but this took placein the late 50,s. It was a traumatic time for all onboard.


Now that's what I call a "Tiger".

John T.


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## John Campbell (Aug 30, 2005)

Pat McCardle said:


> I imagined ships of old, pre 20's, might have had a gun on board but never knew they had them in the 70's. You live & learn.


Pat,
When I sailed on the last trip of the Texaco Calcutta in 1973 we took 3 Colt 45s from Singapore ,where they had been collected from other Texaco Tankers, to deposit them with the UK High Commision in Port of Spain Trinidad. All the British flagged Texaco Tankers were required at that time to deposit their weapons at suitable places for destruction presumably.
That year Texaco ceased providing Colt 45s on their ships.
Caltex had a Master in the early 50s who legend has it shot a bum boat man oin the backside at the anchorage off Singapore. He was nick named "two gun Scott". 
Guns were always a menace on board as they always had to declared to Customs etc and kept in the safe. A colt 45 is a heavy weapon and would take some practice to use. I never ever saw a master practice and they were gone by the time I was "old man". 
We still kept the hand cuffs and leg irons and I never saw them used


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## JoK (Nov 12, 2006)

The ships I sailed on carried rifles for polar bears. They would probably piss them off more then hurt them.


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## waimea (Dec 21, 2005)

The best story I heard and it is true, I knew the A/B involved. He had a dislike of the mate. One night he put a bag over his head, ran up to the bridge, king hit the mate and ran out. Fell down the ladder and broke his leg.


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## Pat McCardle (Jun 12, 2005)

I remember an AB who gave the Mate a really bad kicking, in Dunedin, ran round the block & came to assist the Mate.............Who then told said AB that "There were 4 of them". By the look of the bloke you would have thought so.


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## ddraigmor (Sep 13, 2006)

Ah.......two sister ships tied up in Dundee, crew 90% Scots. On our ship, things were OK, everyone got on fine. On the sister there was a bit of bother between the Mate and one of the AB's. 

Eg. one: Mate coming back from a run up the road, three sheets to the wind, found by the nigh****chman with a broken nose, two busted lips. Apparently the result of meeting a bit of 4x2 wielded by 'an unknown assailant' (though the Mate knew who.....

Eg. 2: Six weeks later: AB falls over the wall whilst skylarking on the boat deck.

Mate sees him and rushes to the ship's side, maindeck level. Sees the AB hanging on for dear life to a fender.

Throws him a 25 ton shackle.......

Net result: Old Man had to request they were transferred to other vessels as the situation aboard was getting 'out of hand'.......

Jonty


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## Ron Hamilton (Dec 6, 2006)

*Drunken sailor assaulted captain*

Attending a safety meeting on an Esso tanker ,the skipper was enlightening crew members who had never served on tankers of potential hazards. Talking about tank-cleaning ( an horrific job in the tropics), he said,' If you observe anyone acting in a drunken manner ( we always acted like that down there!) it is because he is being affected by gas! Whereupon a wit piped up 'DONT TELL THEM ALL, THEY'LL ALL WANT TO COME DOWN!' Then a young apprentice'Wilkie', pointed out that he had'n't seen any fire-axes on the bulk-heads . We who had sailed with Esso were all aware of a recent incident on an Esso tanker where the skipper had been found in his cabin, at sea, minus his head , with a fire-axe nearby! The Chief Officer being a meticulous sort of chap had the body put in a frig, had the cabin scrupulously stripped & cleaned ! threw the axe over the side! & was interrogated on return to UK , but never charged ! ( The rumour was ,the skipper had become overfond of the mates missus !) Now when young 'Wilkie' brought up the subject of fire-axes, the skipper exploded,' IF ANYONE EVER NEEDS A FIRE-AXE , HE CAN COME & ASK ME FOR ONE!!!,' Needless to say most of us collapsed in hilarity!


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## Bob Preston (Jan 4, 2007)

I sailed with one Capt. who made a holster and walked about with the gun stapped on him!
On the Reina del Mar I was attacked twice. Once by a Palastinian Syrian, He was chasing me round the engine room with a big piece of wood with big nails thro' the end.The 2nd time a drunken Donkeyman got me by the throat from behind whilst I was writing up the log. I had blacked out before the other two watchkeepers got him off. He went to jail.
On a Gatx tanker we had a Yugoslav mechanic hit a pumpman on the forhead with a 21/2 lb ballpien hammer and blind him. We put into Freetown but they didn't want to know; nor in Genoa or Fos au Mer. We heard several months later the Mechanic was found face down in the habour in Antwerp with head stove in!
We also had several incidents with the ships guns, I seem to remeber we had two guns, I only saw them in the boxes they came in. In one incident the chief & the old man were up in court, in Brixham I think. A sailor had cut a mans mouth open and was generaly running amok. The Old Man and the chief armed them selves and went to restrain him. The chief fired a shot over the wall, because he had never fired a gun before! Thats what he told me afterwards. It made the national papers. This was 1980/81.


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## JoK (Nov 12, 2006)

And I thought I had it bad with being pushed around and threatened.


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## drynet (Apr 19, 2007)

Remember the captain of the Curlew shooting at sharks of Lorenco Marques in 63dryden


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## Charles compass (Sep 6, 2005)

CHINESE PEOPLES REPUBLIC VESSELS :LOADING AT KOOLAN ISLAND YAMPI SND IN THE 70s ALWAYS HAD MACHINE Guns MOunted ON the Bridge Wings
They also declared a veritable ****nal of automatic weapons upon arrival'
Charles Compass


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## lakercapt (Jul 19, 2005)

The firearms in the masters safe!
I never at any time had a firearm on board.
Often wished I had but I did not dispell that myth as it may have acted as a deterrant.
Let it be known on one vessel that should anyone attack me I would blow their head off. Don't think I would but I was never at any time I was master threatened or assulted. (over 35 years)
Bill


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