# Sunderland built TID tugs WW2



## BillH (Oct 10, 2007)

I am currently researching the TID tugs of WW2 with a view to compiling a definitive history.

I have collated all known available sources and also referred to some contemporary records but have found a vast array of discrepencies between sources so for the moment, I am concentrating on the engine builders and have found that in some cases, despite having official engine builders papers detailing for which vessel the engines were destined, in several cases the actual ship registration papers detail an engine by a different builder, so even contemporary records can provide a false steer.

What I am hoping for is that somebody on the site could advise me if the Sunderland Custom House ship registers are still available to access and if possible could inspect the same to confirm that the seven TIDs built by Pickersgill actually had engines built by Dickinson as planned, preferably with the engine number.

I also would appreciate, if possible, the callsign for those missing below

TID 177…….O.N. 181132….Yard No.296…..completed 1946…..C/S..G
TID 178…….O.N. 181135….Yard No.297…..completed 1946…..C/S..G
TID 179…….O.N. 181136….Yard No.298…..completed 1946…..C/S..GBJR
TID 180…….O.N. 181138….Yard No.299…..completed 1946…..C/S..GBJV
TID 181…….O.N. 181133….Yard No.300…..completed 1946…..C/S..G
TID 182…….O.N. 181139….Yard No.301…..completed 1946…..C/S..GBLF
TID 183…….O.N. 181140….Yard No.302…..completed 1946…..C/S..GBNC

Meanwhile I offer my thanks in advance for any assistance rendered.

Bill


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## BillH (Oct 10, 2007)

I should have clarified that the seven vessels detailed above were a second batch the first being of sixteen vessels TID 152 to 167 inclusive.


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## A.D.FROST (Sep 1, 2008)

Sorry I can not help but I thought this might intrest you.
BRENT (TID 157)engine roomand four TID tugs along side Dickinsons receiving their engingines (Palmers Hill)
View attachment 32689
View attachment 32690


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## BillH (Oct 10, 2007)

Thank you sir,

The BRENT photo provides me with confirmation of engine builder and moreso an engine number.

Regards
Bill


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## robin (Jun 23, 2005)

Hi Bill,
I take it that you have checked the Medway Maritime site ? Martin Stevens and I have put a lot of our TID tug infomation collected over many years on this site. I served on TID 172 in the 1970 at Chatham Dockyard and crewed on the private owned TID 164 along with her owner Martin.
Hope that find what you are looking for.
Regards, Robin.


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## BillH (Oct 10, 2007)

Hi Robin,

Yes, I am aware of the site but unfortunately it does not attempt to address the machinery aspect. This is also the case with Empire Ships 2nd edition and 50 Years of Naval Tugs, so really none are of much help. The site also fails to show a bibliography of sources.

I also found a considerable amount of conflict of information between the site, the two books and the downloadable Tuglist database.

This unfortunately, is a problem when data is uploaded to websites without validation and is then considered as fact. "If it's on the web it must be correct" attitude and subsequently others read and quote and so the error permeates across the web and indeed potentially into some printed works.

I'm not in any form, decrying the site but more raising awareness of the hazards of the web in serious research.

Bill


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## RSSteam (Feb 13, 2013)

Bill,

I hope this may be of help.

TID159 aka Brent has a Dickinson engine -no.994
TID172 ex Martello also has a Dickinson engine -no.993

There are subtle differences in the build of the two. One of the most obvious is the oil feed pump for manual cold firing are on opposite sides. Brent - stb and 172 - port.

The Medway MT site has a thanks page, not quite a bibliography though, See: http://www.medwaymaritimetrust.org.uk/tidtugs/pages/thanks.html


I am also doing some research and would welcome any information on the engines, auxiliaries and especially the model of Todd oil burner & register and the operating procedures.

Hope this helps,

Richard


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## A.D.FROST (Sep 1, 2008)

If this helps,from the book 'Building Ships on the 'North East Coast'part 2 by J.F.Clarke.(quote) Doxfords aquired the site of Pallmers Hill of Dickinson's(part of the Richardson Westgarth during the war)Dickinsons final out-put was 15-compound engines 220hp.forTID tugs delivered in 1946.


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## RSSteam (Feb 13, 2013)

Bill,

Just to confirm, this is TID172's engine plate, taken yesterday.


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## chadburn (Jun 2, 2008)

That photo takes me back to the day's when the cylinder insulation was encapsulated by varnished wooden Lath's (rather than tinplate) and the oil syphon box. It was the practice that when the syphons were not in use the metal hook part hung outside the box as an indication. Whilst I was warming through and just before I began movements on the engine I would look through the grating and check that the syphon's had been put back which they usually were by an efficient Greaser. The vessel I was on was built in 1914 and I understand crossed the Atlantic during WW1, they must have been desperate for ship's.


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## tomarack (Apr 30, 2007)

Hi guys,
excuse me.. but I found some another problem too .. Please, can you say which flag hoisted these TID and civilian ships used during the war as a supply ship for the RN (serving RN) ?
* As usual, wore red duster or another flag?
My friend builds VIC puffer too and he wants to know which flag is proper for his vessel in wartime(WWII).
Sorely I didn´t find suitable answer.
thanks Tom


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## BillH (Oct 10, 2007)

Happy to say that I have now tied down all engine builders and boilermakers to each of the 182 vessels, having located and sourced both the Hull and Sunderland Port Registers.

Unfortunately they do not state if coal or oil fired, nor any other equipment detail


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## A.D.FROST (Sep 1, 2008)

I would have thought they were all coal fired and later converted as and when to oil,rather than mix and match to help in mass production along similar lines to the Empire boats.


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## BillH (Oct 10, 2007)

A.D.FROST said:


> I would have thought they were all coal fired and later converted as and when to oil,rather than mix and match to help in mass production along similar lines to the Empire boats.


Hi A.D.,

From records, I know that approximately halfway through the build programme the Ministry Of War Transport decided to henceforth have oil fuel with a longer term view to service in the Med, S E Asian and Far East theatres, where coal was not readily available nor of great quality for steaming.

When the order was given, it proved awkward to implement immediately because many boilers were either under advanced stages of construction or complete and ready for installation, therefore fewer than planned were oil fuelled. 

The earliest I have identified with oil fuel is TID 95. Thereafter it is hit and miss up to TID 150 after which they were oil.


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