# Marco Polo hit by norovirus



## Pompeyfan (Aug 9, 2005)

*Marco Polo hit by stomach bug*

Marco Polo hit by possible outbreak of norovirus yet to be confirmed. A passenger has died with underlying medical conditions.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/highlands_and_islands/8137387.stm

David


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## SN NewsCaster (Mar 5, 2007)

*Bug probe after man dies on liner (BBC News)*

A post-mortem examination is due to be carried out on a man who died during a suspected outbreak of a virus on a cruise liner.

More from BBC News...


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## Pompeyfan (Aug 9, 2005)

Not sure if norovirus has been confirmed yet, but even if it has it seems that the same bug was on board before the current passengers joined her according to reports.

That would indicate as I have always maintained that a member of crew is a carrier, not passengers.

As some members would know, when I worked aboard Canberra and Arcadia we were forever getting outbreaks of gastroenteritis. Some were bacteria in nature due to the source, and some were viral, again due to the source. Each time we found the source either being crew if viral, and bacteria if food handling related etc. And it was always the same scale as today as to amounts of passengers affected.

We did not know norovirus by name then, but the symptoms of viral outbreaks were exactly the same, D&V etc. The same as Norwalk virus found in 1968, now known as norovirus.

I am surprised that infected passengers were allowed ashore, but people do get into a panic over this, and the Invergordan councillor who has criticised the way the situation was handled is possibly overreacting.

This is a virus, not the plague. And it is not like the flu virus, spread through the air. Although highly infectious, you will only catch this thing if you touch the same thing as a carrier, and put for hand into your mouth or eat something the carrier has touched. When passengers are infected, obviously the cross infection increases, but unless you touch the same thing as they do, and do not put it into your mouth, you will not catch it.

As I have said before, these viruses do not live for long outside of the body unlike bacteria that can survive outside of the body. Ordinary soap will destroy it which is why washing hands is essential.

I still think this thing is carried by a crew member, infects passengers, then spreads. Yes, if in buffet restaurants on cruise ships these days if an infected passenger touches something like a sandwich, then you pick it up, and they have not washed their hands you will get it. But those sandwiches are made in the Galley. The contents is touched by a lot of people before it gets to the restaurant. Blaming passengers totally is passing the buck in my opinion especially is that we always traced it to crew. Why should a problem that we dealt with during my day which is exactly the same today as it was then suddenly find the source changing from crew to passenger?. And of course there were not the help yourself buffets during my era, but it still spread until we found the original source which as I say was never a passenger, so why are they suddenly the major culprit?. 

Also, this is a very common virus far more widespread shore side than aboard cruise ships, so why are cruise ships always targeted?.

The man who died could have well been infected, and could have contributed to his death. The post mortem will reveal this. 

David


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## mikeg (Aug 24, 2006)

Pompeyfan said:


> I am surprised that infected passengers were allowed ashore, but people do get into a panic over this, and the Invergordan councillor who has criticised the way the situation was handled is possibly overreacting.


Time will tell on that! I don't believe it was an over reaction considering
doctors have reported that 200 people on board the Marco Polo are showing symptoms of the norovirus and four are now being treated in hospital.

I don't live far from Invergordon so I shall watch with interest what transpires. Not being too derogatory but it appears fairly consistent with Highland organisation - SNAFU


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## Pompeyfan (Aug 9, 2005)

mikeg said:


> Time will tell on that! I don't believe it was an over reaction considering
> doctors have reported that 200 people on board the Marco Polo are showing symptoms of the norovirus and four are now being treated in hospital.
> 
> I don't live far from Invergordon so I shall watch with interest what transpires. Not being too derogatory but it appears fairly consistent with Highland organisation - SNAFU


Mike

Unless in direct person to person contact with infected passengers you will not catch it. Don't go down there and give them a big hug and kiss to welcome them?!. (Eats) 

I have treated more people than I can remember with viral gastroenteritis as a nurse at sea in my Crew & Isolation Hospital as well as shore side and never caught it, and that includes my pathology job.

The biggest threat to cruise ships and anywhere where people are in an enclosed space are airborne viruses. 

Norovrius is not airborne. It is a person to person transmission or contaminated food or water, touching the same things they have if they have not washed their hands. 

Never eat without washing your hands. If food has not been touched by a carrier, you will not be infected unless of course the food itself is contaminated either by poor food handling, or the carrier. And remember, the virus does not survive for long outside of the body.

All of us would be exposed to viruses like this every day in busy town centres, supermarkets and so on. We don't go around kissing everybody, and we don't put our hands in our mouth sucking our thumb after touching the same thing as them (EEK) 

If I had worried about the hundreds of infections I have been in contact with over the years both as a nurse and in my pathology job I would have been dead years ago through stress :sweat: 

We need to put this thing into perspective. I just wish the media would leave cruise ships alone because compared to shore side, the percentages are very low.

On Canberra alone we had cases all the time, so this is by no means a new thing affecting modern cruise ships. I kept a diary during my first four months aboard Canberra in 1971 of patients in my Crew & Isolation Hospital. I have just looked at it and there are quite a few entries of crew with Gastroenteritis.

Therefore, this is nothing new. 

My great grandson could not go to school today because he has the trots. And he not been anywhere near a cruise ship or her passengers [=P] 

David


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## mikeg (Aug 24, 2006)

David,

Blast! That means I can't go on kissing and hugging female passengers and crew - what am I going to do for the rest of the day??
Seriously though now that more people are washing their hands regularly because of the swine flue threat will help. Touching the same things would apply to coins, handshakes, poor washing up of cups, cutlery, beer glasses - but I suppose the thought is worse than the reality of it?

Projectile vomitting over my keyboard and monitor may delay my reply though (==D)

Mike


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## SN NewsCaster (Mar 5, 2007)

*Comments on virus investigation (BBC News)*

Quotes from passengers, health professionals and a councillor on suspected virus outbreak on cruise liner. 

More from BBC News...


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## shamrock (May 16, 2009)

The cruise has been terminated as a result of the outbreak...

http://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/Article.aspx/1298071?UserKey=

There are a couple of passengers who are complaining about the turnaround at Tilbury but since the ship was given the all clear to sail, there is little that Transocean could have done. Noro is as common as the common cold in confined areas like ships, hotels and hospitals etc. Just one of those things that comes with the territory.


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## SN NewsCaster (Mar 5, 2007)

*Passengers to quit virus liner (BBC News)*

All passengers deemed well enough to travel are to leave a ship at the centre of a vomiting bug outbreak.

More from BBC News...


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## Pompeyfan (Aug 9, 2005)

SN NewsCaster said:


> All passengers deemed well enough to travel are to leave a ship at the centre of a vomiting bug outbreak.
> 
> More from BBC News...


Yet again another outbreak of some form of gastroenteritis norovirus or whatever blown way out of proportion as usual just because it happens to affect a cruise ship. There is a 48 hour tummy bug doing its rounds in our neck of the woods, all my family have been affected. Have not heard that on the news?!.(EEK) 

David


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## SN NewsCaster (Mar 5, 2007)

*Bug liner passengers to head home (BBC News)*

Passengers from the ship at the centre of a virus outbreak in the Cromarty Firth are to start their journey home.

More from BBC News...


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## SN NewsCaster (Mar 5, 2007)

*Liner 'like hospital prison ship' (BBC News)*

A passenger says waiting to leave a virus-hit liner was like sitting on death row, while others praise ship staff.

More from BBC News...


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## shamrock (May 16, 2009)

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Noro hits ships every day of the week, what makes this one worse is that the ship in question carries less than 1000 people, so the impact appears worse than on one with a similar number affected on a ship with 3000 passengers on it.

Noro happens in hospitals, hotels, schools...anywhere really. The age of the ship does not enter the equation, it is just one of those things that happens sometimes.


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## mallenyman (Oct 14, 2008)

*Marco Polo*

Re the vomiting virus vessel Marco Polo, can anyone confirm her registry? The owners and the charterer give it as Bahamas, but in the brief shots on TV news reports from Invergordon her flag did not look like that of Bahamas. As far as I could see, it was like the Danish ensign with some sort of design in the upper canton. I am curious - or it just that my sight is failing?


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## shamrock (May 16, 2009)

She is indeed registered in the Bahamas. Owned by Liberian company Story Cruise, Ltd and operated by Transocean of Bremen, Germany.


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## Pompeyfan (Aug 9, 2005)

It has not been confirmed yet that the outbreak is norovirus. As I have said time and time again there are various forms of gastroenteritis both viral and bacteria.

This summer there will be plenty of barbecues where food will not be cooked properly, handled properly, stored properly and so on. The result will be bacterial, *not* viral infection, and all those consuming food not prepared properly or left at room temperature, especially cream fillings, milk processed meats, fish and so on will go down with bacterial gastroenteritis or D&V as we call it, diarrhoea and vomiting *exactly* the same symptoms as norovirus, except that it is caused by bacteria of the staphylococcal, shigella and salmonella groups. In other words, food poisoning.

The media is obsessed with norovirus as if it is the *only* cause of D&V.

And if it is norovirus, it is far more likely that a crew member is the initial carrier when so many people are infected at the same time just as with bacterial infections which will affect *all* who eat contaminated food.

Like I keep saying, viruses cannot live outside the body for very long. You will need to eat what a carrier has touched, or touch the same thing say a hand rail with your hand, then put it in your mouth, or pick up a food item and put it in your mouth without washing your hand or using gel. If you do both, then eat you will *not* catch the virus unless a fellow passenger who is a carrier touched that food item and had not washed their hands *or* that the person preparing the food was a carrier. Soap destroys the virus in seconds because viruses like this are covered in a coating that is dissolved by soap thus killing the virus. The HIV virus for example is not very robust, protected by a coating that is also dissolved by soap thus killing the virus.

And again, virus like noro will *not* affect so many at the same time as a cold or flu virus which is airborne. One sneeze could affect far more people without even touching them. To spread norvirus to affect so many in one go you as a carrier would need to travel around the room and kiss them all (Jester) 

Bacteria can live for years outside of the body, and much harder to get rid of, and of course easier to contaminate food if not stored or cooked properly affecting all those who eat that food. Shell fish and flat fish are well known for being contaminated with sewage etc, however well they are stored and cooked. 

Those who stay aboard should not feel they are on death row. And those who stayed on board are much more sensible especially if old and have underlying health conditions because travelling back to London by train with their luggage will be very tiring and draining. Bad enough for a healthy body. We have all felt drained after a long journey. Well, imagine how an unhealthy body would cope. Well, in my former job, I don't need to imagine, I know. (EEK) Therefore those who are going back to London on the ship are very sensible despite this bug which could well have been contained now. 

The beauty of cruising is that you only unpack the once, much less tiring. Your holiday home goes with you. 

David


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## shamrock (May 16, 2009)

Oh here we go...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/highlands_and_islands/8142398.stm


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## sidsal (Nov 13, 2007)

I read in Sea Breezes soem months ago that Invergordon expecte 47 cruise ships to call in 2009. It has just one cruise berth so I imagine the Marco Polo would have been moved to an anchorage,


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## Pompeyfan (Aug 9, 2005)

shamrock said:


> Oh here we go...
> 
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/highlands_and_islands/8142398.stm


They can't be too worried about the bug if they are staying on board? (EEK) 

And seven people taken to hospital out of over 700 passengers is a drop in the ocean(pardon the pun. 

Also, how can they complain about poor communication when nobody knows yet what the bug is other than they have had a dose of the squirts. 

I wish I could go on a cruise, get the squirts, money back and possibly a free cruise as well (Jester) 

David


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## shamrock (May 16, 2009)

This is an example once again of the litigious times we live in....


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## SN NewsCaster (Mar 5, 2007)

*Internet role on bug-hit cruise (BBC News)*

Passengers on a ship hit by norovirus sought and sent information about their situation over the internet.

More from BBC News...


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## mikeg (Aug 24, 2006)

sidsal said:


> I read in Sea Breezes soem months ago that Invergordon expecte 47 cruise ships to call in 2009. It has just one cruise berth so I imagine the Marco Polo would have been moved to an anchorage,



The Marco Polo sailed at 2010 BST yesterday with 600 passengers bound for Tilbury.

Mike


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## mallenyman (Oct 14, 2008)

*Marco Polo*

Thanks for confirmation of registry. Yesterday evening`s STV news showed `Nassau` up clearly, but not her ensign. I must have been mistaken on that. NHS Highland have now confirmed (after the ship sailed for Tilbury) that tests were positive for norovirus. I hope the PLHA throw the book at somebody. Probably, and legally, the master will be the fall guy, but consider his position had he told his owners that the QTR would be impossible if Port Health were informed.


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## mikeg (Aug 24, 2006)

Used to be the Aleksandr Pushkin, sailed as pax on here not long after her refit in 1993. Comfortable ship, good food & crew. Then it was Orient now Transocean - ship still looks good  unlike the pax...


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## Pompeyfan (Aug 9, 2005)

mallenyman said:


> Thanks for confirmation of registry. Yesterday evening`s STV news showed `Nassau` up clearly, but not her ensign. I must have been mistaken on that. NHS Highland have now confirmed (after the ship sailed for Tilbury) that tests were positive for norovirus. I hope the PLHA throw the book at somebody. Probably, and legally, the master will be the fall guy, but consider his position had he told his owners that the QTR would be impossible if Port Health were informed.


In a funny sort of way, the company will no doubt be glad that norovirus has been confirmed because had it been a bacterial form of Gastroenteritis they would have not been able to blame it on passengers as the carriers. 

However, because it is said to have been on board before her current passengers embarked, still suggests it could be a crew member in the galley who is the carrier. If so, it would contaminate the food touched, and because it is so contagious, would spread very quickly as is the nature of it. Raw shellfish such as oysters could also be the source if from contaminated waters.

Whatever, no other passenger seem to have been affected so perhaps they have contained it?.

David


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## Ken Green (Jun 13, 2005)

I have enjoyed reading all your comments about the incident! Unfortunatly my wife and I were aboard the vessel until,( against Pompyfan's advice!!) we left the ship and travelled home by a chartered train yesterday, which was the finest thing we have ever done. After leaving Tilbury on Saturday we had a fantastic day on Sunday, calm and warm. Everything was really good apart from the food which was cold and not to my liking. Monday morning at 03.00 I just made it to the lavatory pan, not knowing which end to put in first! This carried on for approx six hours and then it finished leaving me feeling yucky. I was confined to my room for 24hrs after being seen by a very nice young German lady doctor and an equally lovely German nurse. The reason we decided to jump ship was because I had eaten practically nothing since Sunday night and fancied a bit of good English food! Also I did not want my wife to catch the virus.
The ship itself was quite good and the room was spacious and all the crew I came in contact with were excellent and very hardworking. On monday night at 21.30 our cabin steward arrived and gave the whole place a massive clean, all bulkheads and surfaces etc.
Now I am eagerly awaiting to see if I get my money back!!
Cheers everyone,
Ken


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## Pompeyfan (Aug 9, 2005)

Ken Green said:


> I have enjoyed reading all your comments about the incident! Unfortunatly my wife and I were aboard the vessel until,( against Pompyfan's advice!!) we left the ship and travelled home by a chartered train yesterday, which was the finest thing we have ever done. After leaving Tilbury on Saturday we had a fantastic day on Sunday, calm and warm. Everything was really good apart from the food which was cold and not to my liking. Monday morning at 03.00 I just made it to the lavatory pan, not knowing which end to put in first! This carried on for approx six hours and then it finished leaving me feeling yucky. I was confined to my room for 24hrs after being seen by a very nice young German lady doctor and an equally lovely German nurse. The reason we decided to jump ship was because I had eaten practically nothing since Sunday night and fancied a bit of good English food! Also I did not want my wife to catch the virus.
> The ship itself was quite good and the room was spacious and all the crew I came in contact with were excellent and very hardworking. On monday night at 21.30 our cabin steward arrived and gave the whole place a massive clean, all bulkheads and surfaces etc.
> Now I am eagerly awaiting to see if I get my money back!!
> Cheers everyone,
> Ken


Hi Ken

Sorry to hear of your plight. You did what you thought the right thing for yourselves. I personally would have stayed on board especially if already picking the thing up, but that is because I dislike train travel with luggage etc. 

Apart from the bug, what was the food like(you mentioned missing good English food), the general cleanliness, and so on before they cleaned everything?. Did they use hand gels as standard in the restaurants. And did she have a buffet restaurant?. It is the latter where cross contamination is very high from passenger to passenger if the food is not already contaminated. And is the main restaurant silver service, or vegetables already on the plate?. 

You had a bad experience unfortunately but something we dealt with on a regular basis even on the 'line voyages'. 

With a bit of luck you will get your money back *and* another cruise?!!. Just don't kiss those nice German nurses next time? (Jester) 

David


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## SN NewsCaster (Mar 5, 2007)

*Virus ship passengers win refund (BBC News)*

Passengers on a cruise ship hit by an outbreak of a vomiting bug are promised a full refund of their fare and their bar bill paid.

More from BBC News...


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## SN NewsCaster (Mar 5, 2007)

*Virus cruise makes refund pledge (BBC News)*

Passengers on a cruise ship struck down by a vomiting bug outbreak are due to disembark in Essex. 

More from BBC News...


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## Ken Green (Jun 13, 2005)

Pompeyfan said:


> Hi Ken
> 
> Sorry to hear of your plight. You did what you thought the right thing for yourselves. I personally would have stayed on board especially if already picking the thing up, but that is because I dislike train travel with luggage etc.
> 
> ...


Hi David, Here we go with the second episode!
To answer your questions, the food was very unappetizing and served in small quantities with veg included on the plate. Maybe it was to some people's liking but not my wife's or mine. Yes, there was a buffet restaurant next to the swimming pool, which was never filled! The ship was very clean and in my opinion could not be faulted, hand gel posts were outside every restaurant and a crew member was stationed there to ensure they were used. I cannot say it enough, the crew were excellent,hardworking and cheerful considering that some of their members were also ill and they all had extra work.
08.30 this morning, my day was made,I received a cheque in the post for the entire amout I had paid for the cruise!
Cheers, Ken


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## SN NewsCaster (Mar 5, 2007)

*Ill passengers stay on virus ship (BBC News)*

A number of passengers on a cruise ship struck down by a vomiting bug remain on board after the vessel docked at Essex. 

More from BBC News...


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## Pompeyfan (Aug 9, 2005)

Ken

Many thanks for the on board report, nothing like a first hand report from a person on board.

I too dislike it on cruise ships who do not have silver service.

What you have told me suggests as I have always suspected that the carrier of this bug was a crew member in the galley. It was a regular occurrence on my ships where we traced the source, so why any different now?!. You can have the best hygiene in the world, infection control of the highest standard, but if the bug has already contaminated food or water or that a crew member handling it is a carrier, you stand no chance. 

It is also worth noting what other people ate such as did those who ate the same thing catch the bug but not others. We always did a Sherlock Holmes search asking people what they ate in order to help us locate the source. This should have been easier in a smaller ship like Marco Polo. For example, we found it easier to trace the source in a smaller ship like Arcadia than the larger Canberra with more passengers and crew. 

Nice to have your money back. Will you spend it on another cruise?!. 

David


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## Phill (Jun 17, 2005)

Marco Polo seen at Tilbury on Sat the 11th of July, most notable was the extremely loud generator operating in her vicinity, pictures taken from the Balmoral morning and evening.

Phill (Thumb)


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