# FT COCKCHAFER and the 1975 Dorset BW Detection Trials



## linstock (Mar 1, 2010)

Just over one month ago, the US Army (with permission from the MOD and Dstl Porton Down) declassified and released into the public domain a scientific report entitled: *Technical Report ARCSL-TR-77033 US/US/UK Collaborative Tests of Biological Detection Devices - Trials Procedures and Details of the Biological Challenges (1977).*

This newly released do***ent reveals that during September-October 1975, scientists from the US Army and the Microbiological Research Establishment, Porton Down, conducted 24 separate Biological Detection field trials in the South Dorset area of England.

The idea was that the resulting bacterial cloud would be carried onshore by the wind and over the target area. For this particular series of trials the target was the Admiralty Underwater Weapons Establishment (AUWE) compound at Portland Bill. Within this compound the US Army had set up the main device under test - the XM19 Biological Detection Alarm, alongside MRE Porton Down's background sampling units. The MRE mobile laboratory and Trials HQ was located at Crown Property near Sea Barn Farm, Fleet, a few miles west of Weymouth.

Of particular interest is the fact that, the report specifically mentions its gratitude to the crew of FT COCKCHAFER "*for their wholehearted cooperation under difficult conditions".*


The report continues:

"Reducing the distance between the emission line and the sampling site resulted in the spraying vessel having to operate much closer to Portland Bill than originally intended. This meant that the strong tidal streams and rough water found in the area and, for some wind directions, the proximity of the ship to the Shambles Bank and the presence of other shipping restricted the challenges to what could be safely be achieved in the prevailing conditions rather than having the greater flexibility available at longer ranges. *Some of the later challenges were carried out in far from favorable conditions for the personnel operating the spray vessel*."


It appears that the XM19 wasn't quite as sensitive as was first thought, so in later trials the distance between spray-ship (COCKCHAFER) and device was reduced, and the bacterial cloud concentration increased. This resulted in the ship having to operate in very rough seas.

I'm posting this information in the hope that some of the crew of FT COCKCHAFER might be able to add information concerning these 1975 trials. Its all very well reading the scientific reports, but they do leave out the personal touch.

I would add that as a resident of South Dorset I've been researching Porton Down's past use of South Dorset as a BW Trials testing area for over 13 years, and any info offered would be very greatly received.





linstock


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## OLD STRAWBERRY (Jan 20, 2006)

I was in RMAS Cockchafer at that time. There is nothing I can add to your report. I can say that the Agent was neutral but I did at that time suffer some quite heavy Flue Like symptoms. The Agent came aboard in Beer Barrel like containers. Our trial lasted about 2/3 weeks, all over plastic suits where worn . We also had to release weather balloons. I believe trials such as these did occur during earlier years using the trials vessel Icewhale. I would suggest that this topic is perhaps still under the official Secrets Act but I am sure that there is nothing here that is not already in public the domain.


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## Satanic Mechanic (Feb 23, 2009)

I realise this has nothing to do with the thread but that has got to be singularly one of the worst names for a boat I have ever heard.

Anyway that aside - I have never heard of this before but you really do have to wonder sometimes at the sort of minds that go into weapon development.

I have heard it a few times that more than once the military have had to step in stop the scientists getting too carried away. Have you ever heard of the Soviet Unions 'doomsday ship' plan - I'll try and dig out some info.


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## OLD STRAWBERRY (Jan 20, 2006)

Satanic Mechanic said:


> I realise this has nothing to do with the thread but that has got to be singularly one of the worst names for a boat I have ever heard.
> 
> Anyway that aside - I have never heard of this before but you really do have to wonder sometimes at the sort of minds that go into weapon development.
> 
> I have heard it a few times that more than once the military have had to step in stop the scientists getting too carried away. Have you ever heard of the Soviet Unions 'doomsday ship' plan - I'll try and dig out some info.


Maybe but a great little ship with happy memories.


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## Satanic Mechanic (Feb 23, 2009)

OLD STRAWBERRY said:


> Maybe but a great little ship with happy memories.


And in truth, that's all that counts (Thumb)


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## linstock (Mar 1, 2010)

Many thanks, Old Strawberry.

First up, no the 1975 trials aren't subject to the OSA any more - MOD/Dstl Porton declassified them in November 2009. They would have been declassified much earlier, but no-one at Porton knew who in the US to ask! (EEK) 

Absolutely true, I assure you - I had to track down the correct US authority, and then get them to inform Porton that it was OK to declassify.  

Secondly, while its true that one of the two bacteria used in the mixed trials suspension had been inactivated, the second type (Bacillus globigii) hadn't - it was live, and was far from neutral. Although, it must be said that if you were a young fit and healthy person you probably wouldn't have suffered any ill effect. If, on the other hand, you had an underlying illness...well, that's another matter.

Sorry to trouble you further, but do you remember it being especially rough during the trials? I only ask because I have been informed 'off the record' that either during these trials, or on the earlier 1973 VARAN trials (during which the spray ship was the WHIMBREL) the scientists occasionally became too ill to operate the spray gear.

I've also read an account by one of the WHIMBREL's crew (Robert Hall), in which he maintained that crew became unwell after drinking tea which had been carried past the spray equipment.

They all may be apocryphal stories, but I love to put them to rest one way or another.

Btw, in case anyone wonders, all of Porton Down's past South Dorset 'activities' are now fully declassified and in the public domain. These include:

the 1950's Large Area Coverage BW trials using HMS GRAFTON;

the 1960 BW trials involving HMS, CHAPLET, TROUBRIDGE, MURRAY and PETARD;

the 1963 BW trials involving HMS MONKTON & the target ship, HMS LONDONDERRY;

the numerous (50+) BW trials conducted between 1963-1971 by ETV ICEWHALE, often known as 'The Lyme Bay Trials';

and of course those BW trials which used the WHIMBREL and COCKCHAFER as spray ships (Trial VARAN, Trial KOLANUT, and the GALATEA trials).

You might be interested to learn that Porton released the 30 minute 'ICEWHALE years' trials film into the public domain a number of years ago, and very interesting viewing it makes. 

Mention of which brings me to a final question - does anyone know where ETV ICEWHALE ended her days? A former crew member, Colin Hoskins, informed me that he thought she went to Plymouth, but wasn't sure?

Damn, got another question - Colin has mentioned before that he was told that the ICEWHALE was 'spraying bugs'; can you remember if you were ever told what you were spraying?

Many thanks, Old Strawberry - especially for the pics

linstock


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## OLD STRAWBERRY (Jan 20, 2006)

Hi Linstock,
Firstly convey My regards to Colin as I know Him very well. We did sail together in RMAS Auricula.
I certainly don't remember ETV Whimbrel being involved in any spraying, not during My time anyway,that started in 1973 but perhaps it happened before that.
Going back to "cockchafer" as I recall most of the trials occurred overnight and again as far as I recall the weather was reasonably calm but working around the Bill in a 100 ft Fleet tender which was the class of "Cockchafer" She always moved a bit so perhaps some "Boffins" did become a little queasy especially with the smell of the agent as well.
We did work with HMS Galatea but off Plymouth (Daylight hours) I think We put the Landrover down in the hold for passage and back on top of the hatch on arrival at Devonport. No linstock, I don't ever recall being briefed on the substance of the metal kegs We never wore any facemasks either.
The detector vans were out at the Bill about where Quinetic have their buildings now. I have to say though this trial was very lucrative for us as regards overtime. I will attach a pic of ETV Whimbrel.


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## linstock (Mar 1, 2010)

Thanks Old Strawberry, pics of the ships are always very welcome. I've spent years studying the reports but unfortunately they rarely contain photos of the spray ship - except for MRE Field Trial Report No3, which contains a grainy pic of ETV ICEWHALE.

I've checked the dates for the WHIMBREL Trials and discovered they were done in the exercise area off Portland on 8/9/10/11 January 1973, so you probably hadn't joined yet.

The trials procedure was similar to other Naval BW contamination trials: 

A converted Land Rover with 22 spray-heads was secured to the fore-deck of ETV WHIMBREL. The ship sailed upwind of the target ship, HMS ACHILLES, and sprayed massive aerosols of Bacillus globigii which would be carried over the target. On ACHILLES, measurements were made of the resulting bacterial contamination, especially that caused by the movement of crew between contaminated areas and the Citadel. Nine trials were done in total.

I haven't seen Colin for far too long, but I'll pass on your best wishes when I do see him. He too mentioned the overtime generated by Porton's BW Trials.  

All the best,


linstock


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## OLD STRAWBERRY (Jan 20, 2006)

May I ask, were You envolved in these trials at sometime?.


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## linstock (Mar 1, 2010)

Nope, I just grew up in the Littlesea area during the 60's, and used to haunt the Fleet, come winter or summer. So I became intrigued as to why a mysterious group of government people used to fly a Kite balloon (looks like a qurter-size barrage balloon) over some land near where I use to get my conkers.  

In the very early 70's I did an apprenticeship with Post Office Engineers (now BT), during which I came across a circuit going to the former Lyme Bay Range control tower overlooking Moonfleet Hotel -the circuit was labelled 'Microbiological Research Establishment'. I knew that they were the MOD's germ warfare boffins at Porton Down and, having over the years signed the OSA many times, kept my mouth shut until the mid-90's. I just assumed that Porton Down were operating a small out-station down here - similar to, but smaller than, the one at Nancekuke in Cornwall.

In the mid-nineties a friend told me of a cluster of childhood cancer on the Fleet and I wondered whether the 'Porton lab' had anything to do with it. Two years later the Sunday Telegraph revealed just what those men with the Kite balloon had been doing, and I started asking questions.

A few television and radio programmes later, and with an ever expanding archive, I'm still asking questions. Especially as the MOD refuse to rule out conducting large-scale BW field trials over Dorset (similar to the old ICEWHALE long-distance trials) in the future.

As you are probably well aware, this area continues to reveal secrets from the Cold War, many of which are absolutely fascinating.

Like the recently declassified revelation from the Cabinet Office, of the real wartime role of RFA ENGADINE  

All the best,


linstock


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## Lancastrian (Feb 8, 2006)

linstock said:


> Like the recently declassified revelation from the Cabinet Office, of the real wartime role of RFA ENGADINE
> linstock


 Missed that one, do tell!


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## OLD STRAWBERRY (Jan 20, 2006)

Thanks Linstock for Your info. I don't think any of us in RMAS Cockchafer suffered any long term problems. There were 7 crew members aboard at that time 4 of us are still around today but definitely an interesting period. We in the PAS/RMAS were to be a part many trials over the years and yes We also had to sign the OSA even having to re-sign on finally leaving the Dockyard in 1995.


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## linstock (Mar 1, 2010)

Lancastrian said:


> Missed that one, do tell!


Love to, Lancastrian, its an absolutely fascinating story which needs to be told. Sorry for the delay in replying, I've been drafting two versions to post. 

Bear in mind that no operational details have as yet been released, only background information concerning the clandestine organisation in which RFA ENGADINE would have served (as one of only two ships), and confirmation of her secondment to that highly classified organisation:

Which would you like, the short version or the detailed version?




linstock


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## Lancastrian (Feb 8, 2006)

Oh the full works please.


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## linstock (Mar 1, 2010)

OK, here goes...

As I am unaware how much you already know about UK Central Government wartime dispersal plans (not to be confused with the more widely known Regional Government wartime dispersal plans), I’m going to start by going back to the state of play at the time of the Cuba Crisis in 1962.

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At the first sign of an international crisis, the Cabinet Office would have issued, via the Whitehall Teleprinter Network (WTN) the codeword: *MACMORRIS*. This would have notified Departments to arrange for a responsible officer (if a Duty Officer was not available) and a WTN operator to be available to be contacted by telephone at their homes at all times out of working hours. Both would have been ready to go to their Departmental Control Point immediately when *FLUELLEN* was instituted.

If the international situation deteriorated and it was judged that there was a direct or indirect threat to British interests, the JIC might issue the declaration of an Intelligence Alert Stage 2; or there might be the declaration of a NATO Simple Alert by one or more of the NATO Supreme Commanders without the prior approval of Her Majesty's Government.

In either case, or simply because it was ordered by the Secretary of the Cabinet, the codeword: *FLUELLEN* would then be immediately issued to all Government Departments, via the WTN. This would cause them to establish and maintain, on a 24 hour basis, a Departmental Control Point. The Cabinet Office Control Point, codename:* COCKPIT*, would be established immediately for the dissemination of information, and the calling of Ministerial, and other meetings.

If war was thought to be unavoidable, then the Precautionary Stage would be declared; with the issuing, again via the WTN, of the codeword: *SHADWELL*.

That’s when the **** really would have hit the fan, as the whole HMG Transition to War machinery would have rumbled into action. As Spike Milligan put it so well, at times like this you find a lot of people walking quickly with the ****s.

Information concerning the dispersal of Central Government to protected accommodation is only just entering the public domain. While details are still somewhat sketchy, the following is an accurate account of the relevant Home Defence plans at the time of the Cuba crisis. All information is taken from recently declassified (but not all as yet available in TNA) Government docs.

Once the Precautionary Stage had been declared, the Cabinet Office would have set up a BURLINGTON Unit. This unit would have dealt with all enquiries related to the activation of the Alternative Central Government Wartime Headquarters (the Central Government wartime HQ located at Corsham Underground Site No 3, North Wiltshire (then codenamed - *BURLINGTON*). 

Once the decision to man BURLINGTON had been taken, the codeword *OCEANUS* (soon to be changed to *ORANGEADE*) would have been given, presumably by telephone, to the BURLINGTON Camp Commandant - a part-time Lt Col, H.C. Gregory MC. Although Lt Col Gregory maintained a small office as cover at the Warminster School of Infantry, in reality he worked from his home, which presumably included a very secure safe!

Upon receiving codeword: *OCEANUS*, Gregory and a very small team would have immediately made BURLINGTON ready for occupation - setting up office furniture, readying the supplies, positioning the numerous (and very necessary) signposts in the cavernous underground HQ.

Meanwhile in Whitehall, all Government Department Establishment Officers would have consulted their list of BURLINGTON nominees, and immediately issue 'Information Slips' to those unsuspecting 'volunteers'. The Informarion Slips would inform them, for the first time, of their wartime duties.

They would have been instructed to draw an advance of pay, and then to make their way home to inform their families that they would be leaving for an unknown destination, to perform wartime duties. They would then gather a small number of personal effects, return to their Department, and await further instructions.

Over at a 'certain railway station' (Kensington Olympia), arrangements were being made to facilitate the massive evacuation of BURLINGTON nominees from Whitehall to a classified rendezvous, known only by the codeword: *CHECKPOINT*. 

At this stage, 'nominees' are by now collecting outside their Government Department buildings, awaiting transport by chartered London Transport buses to the 'certain railway station'.

Upon arrival at Kensington Olympia station they would have embarked aboard one of seven railway trains which were to be chartered by the War Office. These trains would, over the next 14 hours, transport virtually all of the 3,760 BURLINGTON 'nominees' to the mysterious location known only as - *CHECKPOINT*.

Once at *CHECKPOINT* (the Warminster School of Infantry), they would be fed, watered and await the arrival of the complete BURLINGTON contingent. Only once the entire group had gathered would they embark on to military vehicles, and leave in one enormous convoy to their final destination - the massive BURLINGTON bunker.

Very few nominees were ever permitted to go direct to BURLINGTON - the purpose of CHECKPOINT was to protect the location of BURLINGTON until the last moment. It was recognised at the time that once manned, BURLINGTON could never be again used as its security would have been irretrievably compromised

The last arrivals at BURLINGTON were to be the Prime Minister's Helicopter Party, which numbered circa 25 (including 12 senior Ministers). This party would leave Whitehall at the last possible minute, when it was judged that nuclear attack was imminent (see attachment). The codeword for this last minute flight from London was *Operation VISITATION*. Helicopters from the Central Flying School, and under command of HQ Flying Training Command, would have flown to RAF NORTHOLT, where they would have refuelled and would have awaited further instructions. A decision would then have been made to either: embark the Prime Minister’s Party at RAF Northolt; or, to send the ‘VISITATION’ force into London, to any suitable landing ground e.g. Horseguards Parade. Either way, the Prime Ministers Helicopter Party would have then proceeded directly to the BURLINGTON bunker at Corsham. As a precaution against the Prime Minister’s Party failing to arrive at BURLINGTON, one of the Prime Minister’s two ‘nuclear deputies’ (codenamed by Macmillan as *'Gravedigger 1’ *and *'Gravedigger 2’*) would have already travelled to the BURLINGTON bunker, where he would have been ready to take over should the Prime Minister become incapacitated en route. At the time of the 1961 Berlin Crisis, the *First Gravedigger* was ‘Rab’ Butler, the *Second Gravedigger *was Selwyn Lloyd.

As you can imagine, the evacuation of 3,760 personnel from Whitehall to Corsham was a logistical nightmare, which was further compounded by the vital need to adhere to strict security procedures. 

Which is why, immediately after the Cuba Crisis had passed, an extremely small group of Cabinet Office staff started work on a new alternative Central Government wartime dispersal concept.

Over the following years, this radical new plan was developed in utmost secrecy, under the codename – *PYTHON*....


*The PYTHON concept*

* “...the details of these dispersal plans [PYTHON] are among the most vital of Britain’s state secrets, their success being dependent on their total security. BOA’s [British Overseas Authorities] need only know that in the event of Whitehall being destroyed it is planned that the Government of the United Kingdom shall continue to function constitutionally but at a survival scale only until the gathering of the remnants permits a build-up of capacity in the reconstruction phase.” *
[Declassified FCO Memorandum – *The Organisation of Overseas Authorities in General War* 1968]

A good brief description of the radical PYTHON concept can be found in the following recently declassified MAFF do***ent.

A very recent do***ent release – MAF 250/315 Nominations for special duties in war 1967-1982 – contains a remarkable briefing note which describes, in some detail, the entire PYTHON concept.

*MACHINERY OF GOVERNMENT IN WAR – HDC(67)5*
Note for Mr Engholm

Revised Plans for central Government in war, based on current strategic assumptions, will be introduced early in 1968. The existing TURNSTILE concept (about 3,700 staff in a purpose-built relocation site) will be abandoned in favour of the PYTHON concept. This is a diffuse arrangement consisting of the following elements –

*(i) [redacted] separately located PYTHON groups

(ii) Three United Kingdom Supply Agency sections (UKSA) of about 130 staff each, including trade advisers, headed by a Permanent Secretary; and

(iii) Three National Air Transport Agency sections (NATA) each of about 50 personnel.*

*Survivors of these dispersed elements would link up as soon as the attack was over and movement could take place. Supporting departmental “shadow” headquarters are regarded as inconsistent with the PYTHON concept of integrated non-departmental central Government.*

*The PYTHON concept’s immediate objective is the union of two PYTHON groups by about D+7 and the survival of at least one UKSA and one NATA section.*

Such functions of PYTHON groups, UKSA and NATA as can be foreseen are described in annexes A, B and C. The concept acknowledges that in some respects, the provision of adequate arrangements for the procurement and allocation of supplies is the most important single aspect of PYTHON planning. The viability of the concept hinges upon communications within the United Kingdom and to certain points overseas. Some special peacetime provision will be made having regard to technical and financial considerations.

*TURNSTILE [formerly BURLINGTON] would involve the movement of 3,700 staff to a purpose-built relocation site. The PYTHON concept requires the movement of about 1,200 staff, some of whom might be found from outside London. Consequently, PYTHON is the more realistic of the two concepts not only in terms of survival, but also in its demands on departments for suitable staff and in relation to mobilisation in a short precautionary stage of 2 0r 3 days*.

*Staff for PYTHON groups and agency sections will be selected in peacetime. Civil servants will not be told of their selection (unless they are scientists); industrialists, trade advisers and scientists will be informed of their selection for “home defence duties in war, related to dispersed Government service out of London” and of the general nature of their duties (but not of the PYTHON concept. The Home Defence Committee have agreed to review not later than one year hence the policy for informing in peacetime those senior staff selected for PYTHON duties.*

EMERGENCY SERVICES AND DEFENCE DIVISION
06 November 1967

By 1978, each PYTHON Group (now renamed PEBBLE Groups) comprised of about 134 personnel. It is thought that there were between 5-8 PYTHON/PEBBLE Groups in total.

An indication of just how confident were the Cabinet Office, that the location of these locations (known as ‘P’ sites) would remain undiscovered by unauthorised persons ,can be found in a side-note, written by a Cabinet Office official on a letter from the Security Service (aka Box 500). 

While discussing the past and current (1976) security of Site 3 Corsham (then known as CHANTICLEER), the Security Service official states:

“Clearly a lot of individuals who do not have a ”need to know”, know or have a very good idea of the original purpose of CHANTICLEER but whether this warrants the abandonment of the CHANTICLEER story is another matter....
...On the security side the major consideration is whether the abandonment of the CHANTICLEER cover story would result in a greater effort to pinpoint the new “selected areas” by those interested in obtaining such information.”

In the margin, next to this sentence, is written:

“Effort maybe, result no. Too few know the answers and it should be kept that way.”


*All very interesting you may say, but what's this all got to do with RFA ENGADINE?*


Last year the I obtained a Home Office file via the FOIA. Before it could be released it underwent a Cabinet Office sensitivity review. They permitted the release of the file, even though it contained the following intriguing paragraph:

“21. *The paper for this item (HDC(MG)(67)28) is classified TOP SECRET - ACID, but so far as I can see the only ACID information is the names of the ships under item 5. Nothing would be lost if these names were omitted and the sentence referred simply to “Ships for PYTHON purposes”, and the special classification might no longer be necessary.* The Secretaries might be asked to bear the point in mind for future papers of this kind (they are issued three or four times a year).”

Last year I sent a request to the Cabinet Office, which asked for the names of the vessels referred to in the HO brief as “Ships for PYTHON purposes”. I did wonder at the time whether I would get a blank refusal but, seeing as the ships in question were no doubt by now retired from service (something I pointed out in my request), I was hopeful of a good result. 

At this point I must make it clear that I suspected the vessels mentioned as being ‘PYTHON related’ were the three mysterious CalMac ferries - the HEBRIDES, CLANSMAN, and COLUMBA – all three of which had been purpose-built in 1964-65 for the Secretary of State for Scotland. These three CalMac ferries (now retired) have been the subject of much speculation in recent years, as among their unusual specifications were: a guillotine-door which sealed the car deck air-tight; a large amount of unused and highly sophisticated communications gear; and, uniquely for a civilian ship –an air-tight NBC proof ‘citadel’, and anti-fall-out pre-wetting spraying equipment! Obviously, when I first heard of the term ‘Ships for PYTHON purposes”, I immediately thought that this was a reference to the three CalMac ships.

I was very wrong!

I received a reply from the Cabinet Office which, much to my surprise confirmed that they could comply with my request in full. They informed me that "the ships allocated for PYTHON purposes in 1967 were":

*HMS ENGADINE

HMS BRITANNIA*

As you may imagine, this reply rather threw me. 

Instead of the expected reference to the CalMac ships, the Cabinet Office reply contained an admission that the Royal Yacht had a wartime role which was somewhat at odds with the ‘official line’- that in wartime HMY BRITANNIA would have become a hospital ship

The decision to include the Royal Yacht within the PYTHON concept (which became operational on 01 May 1968), could be the reason why the Palace offered (also in 1968) to make HMY BRITANNIA much more available to the Royal Navy. This enabled the RN to include the Royal Yacht in a far greater number of War Exercises than had previously been possible. At the time, the Palace's offer had been seen as an offer of help in difficult economic times – in hindsight this offer appears to have been a remarkable smoke-screen, which provided cover for the RN to secretly exercise BRITANNIA in her new wartime Home Defence role!

Obviously, given the level of public interest which still surrounds BRITANNIA, this Cabinet Office reply required further clarification. 

On 10 June 2009, I made a FOIA request to the Cabinet Office, seeking further information of HMY BRITANNIA’s wartime role within the PYTHON concept during the years 1964-1975 inclusive.

On 06 July 2009 I received a reply, which informed me that although the Cabinet Office do hold the requested information, they were withholding it all as they deemed it exempt under section 26 (i) of the FOIA.

While the specific post-strike role of HMY BRITANNIA and RFA ENGADINE within the PYTHON concept remains classified, we may speculate that the former would have provided PYTHON with a much needed post-strike hospital facility, and the latter would have provided PYTHON with an equally rare post-strike air transport capability, which would enable the accretion of surviving PYTHON Groups and UKSA sections to Central Government accretion sites such as Corsham Underground Site No 3, etc.

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*The short version* -

• The PYTHON concept concerned the wartime dispersal of small teams of Central Government staff to a number of separate, highly classified locations.

• The PYTHON concept, which involved the wartime relocation of 1,200 staff, replaced the TURNSTILE concept, which had planned to relocate 3,770 Whitehall staff from London to Site 3 Corsham (aka BURLINGTON, later to become TURNSTILE). The TURNSTILE concept was maintained until recently (2005) as a cover story for the PYTHON concept. Even the Government War Book of 1970 maintained the fiction that the TURNSTILE concept was still operational. Last June, the Cabinet Office informed me "Knowledge of the PYTHON etc concept was limited to a small circle of ministers and officials; *a wider circle of individuals with limited access to machinery of government in war plans remained under the impression that the plan to activate the CGWHQ at Corsham during transition to war was still current. This reflected a deliberate policy to provide cover for the PYTHON etc concept. Maintenance of communications and administrative facilities at Corsham continued. From 1979 the codeword FLEX was allocated to protect those aspects of the arrangements at Corsham that might reveal that Corsham no longer hosted the CGWHQ*"

• The PYTHON concept became operational on 01 May 1968.

• With the advent of the PYTHON concept on 01 May 1968, TURNSTILE’s wartime role became much reduced. By 1978, the main wartime role for TURNSTILE was to act as the primary post-strike accretion site for the surviving PYTHON concept teams (PYTHON Groups; UKSA sections).

• The number of staff for each PYTHON concept team appears to fluctuate over the years. The 1967 staff complement was: PYTHON Groups – 134 staff; UKSA – 130 (rising to 145 in 1978); NATA – 50

• Although the total number is still classified, it is currently thought that the PYTHON concept planned for between 5-8 PYTHON Groups to be dispersed to classified separate locations across the UK, should war be thought likely. In addition, 3 separate UKSA sections, and 3 separate NATA sections would also be dispersed – each section travelling to their own highly classified protected accommodation.

• The individual protected accommodation facilities provided for each of the PYTHON concept teams (PYTHON Groups; UKSA sections; NATA sections) were known as ‘P’ sites.

• All information relating to any aspect of ‘P’ Sites (location, size, depth, communications facilities, Local Defence, etc) was classified TOP SECRET – ACID. In July 1970, this classification changed to TOP SECRET – FILCH.

• The number of Government staff with exact knowledge of both the location and purpose of ‘P’ sites was extremely small – in all likely-hood within single figures. A handwritten side-note, written in response to a Security Service (Box 500) brief, indicates that the Cabinet Office were extremely confident that the location of ‘P’ sites would not be discovered, as “too few know the answer”.

• Results produced from Exercise BEACHCOMBER 1975 indicated that it would take 7 days to deploy the UKSA teams. Plans were therefore made to deploy, in a worst possible case (WPC) scenario, a 15 person (excluding any military or communications personnel) ‘nucleus’ from each section, with the rest of each section to follow over the next few days. It was recognised that in the worst possible case the follow-up elements might never arrive and therefore only the ‘nucleus’ could survive!

• Although the location of the highly classified land-based ‘P sites’ remain undiscovered, we can with some confidence name two maritime ‘P sites’ – RFA ENGADINE (a helicopter support ship for the Royal Fleet Auxiliary – home port Portland, Dorset), and HMY BRITANNIA.




I hope this is of some interest Lancastrian. 


All the best,



linstock


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## Lancastrian (Feb 8, 2006)

Fascinating. Thanks.


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## chadburn (Jun 2, 2008)

Interesting stuff and thank you, as far as I am aware the "P" sites were updated former Rotor "Filter" Bunkers dotted around the Country that were to be the seat of local Government in the event of a Nuclear War, during the period of tension a nominated Government Mininster and his Staff would be deployed to each of these site's along with member's of the Armed Forces, Ministry of Food and "others". Millions of pounds of "Black budget" money were spent on their refurbishment and in some cases an extra underground floor was added along with 2 new 6cy turbo RR Alt much the same as found aboard ships some of us may have served on. The whole Guardroom come turnstile entrance (like Pitrevie to go below ground) looked as it had always looked from the outside but in the ex Rotor bunker cases covered a re-enforced concrete citidel which had been built inside. Unfortunatly like all things "the Devil is in the Detail", as these were underground bunkers from the old ROTOR system they were built to a standard pattern (the difference being the number of underground floors) and as such they had the same "pattern" of Guardroom entrance, it having the look of an ordinary brick built farm style Bungalow. Once you know the style of Bungalow then it follows that when you see one there is an underground installation nearby.


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## chadburn (Jun 2, 2008)

To add to the above which now includes additional info since first posting the Genny's were first put in the original ROTOR remote building which looked like a small chapel with the exhausts coming out of the "false" belltower, remote being some half mile away from the main bunker however this was changed and they were then placed in a specially re-enforced "room" next to the Bungalow/ Gatehouse. On completion the whole system was tested as part of an Exercise called "Brave Defender" and yes it was "us" who dropped the first Nuclear Device.


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## Lancastrian (Feb 8, 2006)

Just as well WW3 didnt start when Britannia and Engadine were in refit.


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## Ron Stringer (Mar 15, 2005)

linstock said:


> Over at a 'certain railway station' (Kensington Olympia), arrangements were being made to facilitate the massive evacuation of BURLINGTON nominees from Whitehall to a classified rendezvous, known only by the codeword: *CHECKPOINT*.
> 
> At this stage, 'nominees' are by now collecting outside their Government Department buildings, awaiting transport by chartered London Transport buses to the 'certain railway station'.
> 
> Upon arrival at Kensington Olympia station they would have embarked aboard one of seven railway trains which were to be chartered by the War Office. These trains would, over the next 14 hours, transport virtually all of the 3,760 BURLINGTON 'nominees' to the mysterious location known only as - *CHECKPOINT*.


*
Essential staff to be moved within 14 hours but Fylingdales etc. gave only a 4-minute warning of attack. Something of a technology gap there.* (EEK)


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## Lancastrian (Feb 8, 2006)

Ah yes, but there is, in NATO, a period known as "Transition to War", which gives you a couple of weeks notice of the four minute warning!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transition_to_war


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## K urgess (Aug 14, 2006)

Pre-emptive first strikes notwithstanding. (EEK)


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## Lancastrian (Feb 8, 2006)

Thats what "intelligence" is for! (Cloud)


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## K urgess (Aug 14, 2006)

Must've been better in the cold war days than it is now.


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## Ron Stringer (Mar 15, 2005)

Lancastrian said:


> Ah yes, but there is, in NATO, a period known as "Transition to War", which gives you a couple of weeks notice of the four minute warning!
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transition_to_war


Did the Russkis know about that?


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## Lancastrian (Feb 8, 2006)

Probably but it wasn't on Wiki in those days!
And our intelligence services were not hampered by the Yuman Rights Act.


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## linstock (Mar 1, 2010)

chadburn said:


> Interesting stuff and thank you, *as far as I am aware the "P" sites were updated former Rotor "Filter" Bunkers dotted around the Country* that were to be the seat of local Government in the event of a Nuclear War, during the period of tension a nominated Government Mininster and his Staff would be deployed to each of these site's along with member's of the Armed Forces, Ministry of Food and "others".


Thanks chadburn...yep quite a number of ROTOR sites were taken over to act as Regional Government wartime HQ's, among them:

Shipton
Skendelby
Bawburgh
Kelvedon Hatch
Anstruther
Bolt Head
Hack Green

Other Regional Goverment HQs were located in disused WW2 "shadow factories", such as Drakelow or Warren Row.

Unfortunately chadburn, these known sites were only Regional Government wartime facilities, *not* *Central Goverment wartime HQs* (aka PYTHON or 'P' sites).

Unlike the former Regional Government wartime HQs, 'P Sites' were not sold off at the end of the Cold War as part of the so-called 'peace dividend'.

According to the Cabinet Office "details of sites which were considered as locations for PYTHON groups are still sensitive and have not been made public."

Lancastrian wrote


> Just as well WW3 didnt start when Britannia and Engadine were in refit.


Or weekends and national holidays...(EEK)

According to a Operation VISITATION do***ent (see pic below):

4. After passengers have been embarked under arrangements outlined in para.(b) or 3(c) above, the force will leave for STOCKWELL and aircraft will land as near the site as possible. "Visitation" force will be at no special state of readiness unless requested by Cabinet Office. The effect of this is that in normal working hours on any day te force could reach RAH Northolt or the Horseguards Parade within a few hours of orders being issued. *During weekends or national holidays, the time would be considerably longer unless here was some general readiness.* The period of readiness can be requested at any time, but it will be appreciated that this is directly related to security requirements. The Air Ministry Operations Centre is manned 24 hours a day throughout the year.

(STOCKWELL was the old codeword for the massive Central Government War HQ, located at Corsham Underground Site No 3, North Wiltshire. Later codewords were: BURLINGTON, TURNSTILE, CHANTICLEER, PERIPHERAL, EYEGLASS). You can see the size of this massive bunker at the BBC website http://www.bbc.co.uk/wiltshire/underground_city/ 

Be aware though, that contrary to a popular myth, this facility *didn't* possess a pub. 

linstock


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## chadburn (Jun 2, 2008)

It was alway's considered that there would be a period of tension first followed by a "normal" War, the period of tension would have been caused by the Russian's who would " interfere with" our Merchant Shipping by illegally stop and search or declaring no go area's (for their Exercise purposes) along known shipping routes, at that juncture "certain" people would already be at their War Stations. Even at this point the Reserve's would have not been called up as full mobilization was considered to be seen as inflammatory in the "period of tension". When the Russians started to build up their forces then full mobilization would take place and once again the Convoy system would come into place, although England at that time was choc-a-bloc with equipment for a War in Europe we would still have to rely on our American friends to ship more equipment across the pond in Convoy's from their vast reserves of equipment, at some point after that a decision would be made as to whether Nuclear battlefield "devices" would be used by "us", Being at sea would be the safest place to be which may be the reason for the 2 ship's. 
Going in first with a nuclear bomb is always an option but how would the Forces Chief's put their cases forward for more money for the Armed Forces, as far as I remember that option was back burnered.
We have always had a BW & CW capability, "chemicals" were also dispersed over England by aircraft under instructions from Porton Down for test purposes.


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## chadburn (Jun 2, 2008)

Just seen your previous after I had typed mine. Python site's may be in the "concrete Submarines" one of which we have in Yorkshire. Our steel making capability has been snuffed out recently(MAD)


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## linstock (Mar 1, 2010)

Thanks for that chadburn, 

sorry for the delay in response to your detailed post, but I've been busy uploading some rather large photos of the recently declassified 1970 Government War Book. You may find these of interest as they detail the measures to be taken once the Transition to War had begun.

And no, they weren't taken in the MOD using a Minox at the dead of night - instead it was broad daylight at The National Archives. 

http://s894.photobucket.com/albums/...of Shipping/?action=view&current=IMG_4479.jpg

http://s894.photobucket.com/albums/...of Shipping/?action=view&current=IMG_4480.jpg

http://s894.photobucket.com/albums/...of Shipping/?action=view&current=IMG_4481.jpg

http://s894.photobucket.com/albums/...of Shipping/?action=view&current=IMG_4482.jpg

http://s894.photobucket.com/albums/...of Shipping/?action=view&current=IMG_4483.jpg

http://s894.photobucket.com/albums/...of Shipping/?action=view&current=IMG_4484.jpg

http://s894.photobucket.com/albums/...of Shipping/?action=view&current=IMG_4485.jpg

http://s894.photobucket.com/albums/...of Shipping/?action=view&current=IMG_4486.jpg

http://s894.photobucket.com/albums/...of Shipping/?action=view&current=IMG_4487.jpg

http://s894.photobucket.com/albums/...of Shipping/?action=view&current=IMG_4488.jpg

http://s894.photobucket.com/albums/...of Shipping/?action=view&current=IMG_4489.jpg

http://s894.photobucket.com/albums/...of Shipping/?action=view&current=IMG_4490.jpg

http://s894.photobucket.com/albums/...of Shipping/?action=view&current=IMG_4491.jpg

http://s894.photobucket.com/albums/...of Shipping/?action=view&current=IMG_4492.jpg

http://s894.photobucket.com/albums/...of Shipping/?action=view&current=IMG_4493.jpg

http://s894.photobucket.com/albums/...of Shipping/?action=view&current=IMG_4494.jpg

http://s894.photobucket.com/albums/...of Shipping/?action=view&current=IMG_4495.jpg

http://s894.photobucket.com/albums/...of Shipping/?action=view&current=IMG_4496.jpg

http://s894.photobucket.com/albums/...of Shipping/?action=view&current=IMG_4497.jpg

http://s894.photobucket.com/albums/...of Shipping/?action=view&current=IMG_4498.jpg

http://s894.photobucket.com/albums/...of Shipping/?action=view&current=IMG_4499.jpg

http://s894.photobucket.com/albums/...of Shipping/?action=view&current=IMG_4500.jpg

http://s894.photobucket.com/albums/...of Shipping/?action=view&current=IMG_4501.jpg

I'm off to upload the GWB extracts which deal with Treatment of Enemy Shipping.



linstock


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## chadburn (Jun 2, 2008)

linstock, interesting uploading I hope members take the time to read them they will find them very interesting. You will see at the top of the pages it say's "Does not need emergency powers" which means as I indicated previously, these measure's would be put in place before general mobilization (G.M.) in order not to inflame the situation. You may not be aware linstock that some Merchant Ships had two Safe's, one was the Company Safe and the other the Admiralty Safe which contained envelope "Y" as well as other "material". When a Merchant vessel (during the Cold War ) was due to ofload at "Certain Ports" the Admiralty Safe was cleared out.


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## chadburn (Jun 2, 2008)

linstock, after making enquiries of those in the know I would suggest you go to this site http://www.rhydymwynvalleyhistory.co.uk and click on the History section you will find a mention of the "Python Concept", this site may be of interest to the rest of the members especially the Welsh in regards to what went on in the Chemical Warfare scene on "their" land


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## linstock (Mar 1, 2010)

chadburn said:


> linstock, after making enquiries of those in the know I would suggest you go to this site http://www.rhydymwynvalleyhistory.co.uk and click on the History section you will find a mention of the "Python Concept", this site may be of interest to the rest of the members especially the Welsh in regards to what went on in the Chemical Warfare scene on "their" land


Thanks chadburn, it is an interesting site isn't it. At this stage I'd better declare an interest - I've had a hand in supplying http://www.rhydymwynvalleyhistory.co.uk with the MALLARD/WELLBRIGHT/PYTHON (PEBBLE, et al) research material.

You might wish to those who know that its going to get even more interesting soon.  

Right, here is Chapter 15 of the 1970 Government War Book Treament of Enemy Shipping and Aircraft (only 4 pages).





































*Btw Old Strawberry, you mentioned the launching of 'weather balloons' from FT COCKCHAFER. Did they look anything like those being flown from ETV ICEWHALE in this brief 35 second clip?*

 *Zero-lift balloon being launched from ETV ICEWHALE 1965*




linstock


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## chadburn (Jun 2, 2008)

When Exercise " Brave Defender" was running Elder Dempster's offered their vessel "Sokoto" as a target ship, myself and the late "Hoagy" Carmicheal (of Korean War fame) along with an Observer from Norway went aboard. Part One of the Exer was to treat her as an "Allied" independant and to check her paperwork along with "Envelope Tango", Part Two was to treat her as a "Warsaw Pact" vessel acting on behalf of Pitrevie N.I.C. Unfortunatly Part Two did not take place as the vessel was impounded by Custom's when they "found" a Ton of Cannabis in one of a number of Bulk Guinness tank's that had been shipped back from Africa and a rummage took place on the rest of the ship which put a stop to it all. 
I wonder if any of the "Sokoto's" Officer's are on the Site who remember the incident?


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## chadburn (Jun 2, 2008)

If Member's are interested in the huge Burlington Bunker at Corsham type in www. burlingtonbunker.co.uk it is an eye opener for those who have not previously broached the subject of what went on underground in GB, apparently it did have it's own Pub.


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## McCloggie (Apr 19, 2008)

Facinating!

I recognise/remember parts of this - code words, exercise names etc. - but had no idea of the overall picture, and yes, I have been "down the hole" at Pitreavie but had still had no overall picture.

Not far from my home in Fife is what is now called Scotland's Secret Bunker, outside Anstruther. Was this involved as well?

McC


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## Ron Stringer (Mar 15, 2005)

On the A414 outside Ongar in Essex there are brown road signs (of the type used to indicate places of interest to tourists) pointing to ''Secret Nuclear Bunker''.


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## OLD STRAWBERRY (Jan 20, 2006)

linstock said:


> Thanks chadburn, it is an interesting site isn't it. At this stage I'd better declare an interest - I've had a hand in supplying http://www.rhydymwynvalleyhistory.co.uk with the MALLARD/WELLBRIGHT/PYTHON (PEBBLE, et al) research material.
> 
> You might wish to those who know that its going to get even more interesting soon.
> 
> ...


Yes Linstock, the ballons that were used whilst conducting trials in RMAS Cockchafer were identical to the one shown in Your film clip. Apologies for the delay in replying to Your post.


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## chadburn (Jun 2, 2008)

McCloggie said:


> Facinating!
> 
> I recognise/remember parts of this - code words, exercise names etc. - but had no idea of the overall picture, and yes, I have been "down the hole" at Pitreavie but had still had no overall picture.
> 
> ...


McC, as you live in the area you will most probably be aware that "the hole" no longer exist's, I was in the N.I.C. there for 6 mth's(Scribe), some of my ship drawings are still in use today, unfortunatly I do not have the copyright
In regards to the "Secret Bunker's" that you and Ron mention these were former "Rotor" (RADAR) Filter Bunker's which were converted at great expense into the seat's of regional Government in the event of a Nuclear War. Previous to their conversion "Burlington" would have overseen everything during and post Nuclear Stike on GB, it was then decided to regionalise this and the so called "Secret Bunker" system was set up, each one would have a designated Government Minister in charge along with various Military and Civilian Rep's in attendance. Pitrevie was the designated "First Reserve" in the Military Command system. I am still looking for info on "Python" but from what I can gather it was never operational just a concept.
As I indicated previously the SECRET "Rotor" system and therefore the HIGHLY SECRET(Gleam) Seats of Regional Government had a major flaw, the entrance/ turnstile buildings were built to look like farm Bungalow's and they were all built to a standard pattern, if you know what one looked like you knew them all. For those who did not have a place in the Bunker's it was a matter of(Night) as it was considered to expensive to provide protection for Joe/Joan Public


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## linstock (Mar 1, 2010)

chadburn said:


> I am still looking for info on "Python" *but from what I can gather it was never operational just a concept*.


I understand what you mean by the term, but the PYTHON concept could never become truly 'operational' unless the UK was under imminent threat from nuclear attack. 

In order to protect knowledge of the existence of the PYTHON concept, it could never be exercised _in situ_ (the mobilisation of nominees, activation of 'P Sites', etc.). 

Unlike wartime Regional Goverment facilities, which were regularly took part in NATO/National exercises, Central Government wartime concepts (whether the BURLINGTON concept, or the post 1968 PYTHON concept) could not be fully exercised because doing so would give the [highly classified] game away to the Soviets. So Central Government wartime dispersal concepts were considered to be a 'one-shot' deal - once activated, they could never be considered secure enough for reuse in some future event.

I think its best to point out that the Regional Government dispersal system, located in protected accommodation such as former ROTOR bunkers (with ever changing names and functions - RSG's, SRC's, RGHQ's, etc.), were responsible for the 'survival' period and the [rather optimistic] recovery period.

Whereas, Central Government (i.e. PYTHON Groups), appear to have had little or nothing to do in the survival period, and would probably have limited their recovery period reponsibilities to international diplomacy, the resupply of the UK, and adjudicating Regional Government disputes. It appears that the plan was for these Central Government PYTHON Groups to hunker down and wait out the nuclear exchanges (and resulting fall-out/BW attacks) - possibly for weeks if not months. Eventually surviving groups were to make their way to accretion sites, such as BURLINGTON and other as yet unknown locations (possibly Drakelow or the Valley Works Tunnels, at Mold, North Wales). Their recovery period reponsibilities would probably have been limited to: international diplomacy, the resupply of the UK, and adjudicating Regional Government disputes.

There again, until the PYTHON Leaders Handbook is declassified (at a guess, 2030-ish), we will not know what was really planned. All we can do is gather up what little PYTHON crumbs become available and try to make some sense out of them. 

The few PYTHON do***ents which have come to light indicate that only a very small number of Civil Servants may have been aware of the entire scheme. By small, I mean single figures. Far less than the previous BURLINGTON scheme, which was limited to circa 600 (although the location of BURLINGTON was originally limited to very few personnel - throughout the Cold War visitors to the Corsham site were limited to 6 at any one time)

Although you won't find a large amount of PYTHON related material in circulation, I have discovered that *the PYTHON concept 'came into effect' [operational to you or me] on 01 May 1968*.

A TOP SECRET FCO brief, written on 17 May 1968 and entitled - *Machinery of Government in War: Instructions to diplomatic posts overseas* - states:

*3. These instructions form an integral part of the PYTHON concept of which you are already aware. The new arrangements under this concept for the survival of central government of the United Kingdom in the event of a nuclear attack came into effect, on the Prime Minister's authority, on 1 May, 1968.*

*I've attached jpgs of the two page brief below*.

The brief continues:

4. A vital task in the survival and reconstruction phase would be the re-supply of the United Kingdom with food and raw materials from the Commonwealth and foriegn countries. In PYTHON Groups there would be staff from the Diplomatic Service to conduct overseas affairs and the highest importance is attached to the continued functioning of our posts overseas because on them would depend the success of the re-supply operation.

5. After nuclear attack on the United Kingdom the survivor Government would be able to exercise only minimal control of overseas affairs since communications would be severely disrupted and it would be months before any normality could be restored.

6. In view of this grave situation plans have been made for overseas posts to be grouped regionally thus enabling them to function independently of the United Kingdom if necessary. It is the intention that the attached instructions should provide posts in peacetime with sufficient information about H.M.G.'s wartime plans without prejudicing the security of the PYTHON concept and thus enabling them to preform their wartime role without further orders or the outbreak of general war.

I'll try and dig out some more PYTHON related info and post it up later this week. 

Thanks for the confirmation Old Strawberry. (Thumb) 

I have some footage of ETV ICEWHALE (all declassified and above board) which you may find of interest. I'll PM you later.


linstock


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## chadburn (Jun 2, 2008)

Thanks for the further info linstock, unfortunatly it is more than likely I will miss the 2030 release(A). My 6months at Pitrevie (Draft before Discharge) was in 1960/61 and at that time it was the 1st Reserve in the Military System. After that it depended as to whether I was home on leave or not (barring for 1962) from the M.N. which is how I became involved in Exer "Brave Defender" this was a full blown Exercise up to and including the "We are at War" (DTN R****distribution tape) which my immediate Boss the late "Hoagy" Carmicheal (of Korean War fame) and I decoded, it was certainly an eye opener(EEK), even now I can remember some of the code word's which referred to the Countries we were at War with as they involved another interest of mine.


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## chadburn (Jun 2, 2008)

In recently released paper's the role of the Royal Yacht has come to light, it would have been used as a "Floating Bunker" for the Royal family and would have dodged between the island's off the West Coast of Scotland for RADAR protection, the reason for this move was because the Russian's were aware of the massive Government Bunker at Bath. For those who are interested in the Cold War Bunkers/radar go to www.rafholmpton.com where you will find a photo of the military version of the Kelvin Hughes "picture radar" set, the civil version ran on 16mm film and the military version on 35mm film. Also mentioned is the huge cost of the programme along with the info that one of the RADARS could not be used on full power because it would damage the local populations radio', tele's etc or even "remotely" set them on fire. Sounds like something out of science fiction, fortunatly the RADARS here no longer work if you want to do a visit, it is a very interesting place and well worth it. This is where your "Black Budget" tax contribution went (if you were paying any) and apparently the cost of it all nearly "flattened" GB budget.


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## chadburn (Jun 2, 2008)

Further to my above it stands to "possible" reasoning that if the idea behind the Royal Yacht being a floating bunker for the Royal Family then the two specially kitted out Ferries (previously mentioned by linstock) may well have been used by nominated Government members as floating bunkers to "hide" amongst the Western Isle's.


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## coltaz (May 15, 2010)

I have just noticed this thread and thought that you would be interested in this photo of the Icewhale. I served on her in the late fifties and early sixties.

Kind regards

Colin


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## OLD STRAWBERRY (Jan 20, 2006)

Nice Pic Colin. Hope it's OK I've saved a copy of Her for My Portland Naval Base Collection.


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## coltaz (May 15, 2010)

No problem Tony you are very welcome. I have several other photos of other vessels if you are interested.

Colin


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## OLD STRAWBERRY (Jan 20, 2006)

If I can confirm they are Portland Based PAS/RMAS Vessels I would be delighted Colin.


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## davidships (Nov 3, 2007)

chadburn said:


> Further to my above it stands to "possible" reasoning that if the idea behind the Royal Yacht being a floating bunker for the Royal Family then the two specially kitted out Ferries (previously mentioned by linstock) may well have been used by nominated Government members as floating bunkers to "hide" amongst the Western Isle's.


That neatly brings us to the question I was about to ask Linstock: Did you discover anything about the purpose of the special characteristics of HEBRIDES, CLANSMAN, and COLUMBA?

rgds
davidships


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## davidships (Nov 3, 2007)

Going back to Linstock's original posting:



linstock said:


> Just over one month ago, the US Army (with permission from the MOD and Dstl Porton Down) declassified and released into the public domain a scientific report entitled: *Technical Report ARCSL-TR-77033 US/US/UK Collaborative Tests of Biological Detection Devices - Trials Procedures and Details of the Biological Challenges (1977).*


I see that there are a number of relevant catalogued files at TNA in the DEFE 55 series which are avalable, but that the following two have not yet been released - have you sought these via FOI?

DEFE 55/97 Tests of biological detection devices: volume 2 1977 
DEFE 55/100 Joint US/UK biological detection trials 1977 


davidships


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