# Radar



## david.hopcroft (Jun 29, 2005)

There is a programme on BBC2 tomorrow - Thursday 4th - called 'Castles in the Sky'. It is a Drama chronicling the invention Radar by Watson Watt. 

The thumbnail is (was) one the masts at Bawdsey Manor at Orfordness that was used by Watson Watt for his development work. This mast was also the site of Orfordness Radio/2OF, the VHF station remotely controlled from GKZ. Bearing in mind what we had at GKZ and other VHF remotes, I was surprised to find it in a neglected portakabin at the foot of the mast, sharing space with Thames Coastguard. At least at Bacton/2BA we had a proper equipment room within the gate house complex at the Shell gas site at Bacton and space on their masts.

I shall be interested to see if there is any resemblance to fact. 

David
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## chadburn (Jun 2, 2008)

The oldest still working RADAR Station in the World is Staxton Wold in Yorkshire, although a shadow of its former self it was part of the High Level Chain Home System.


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## Bill Greig (Jul 4, 2006)

chadburn said:


> The oldest still working RADAR Station in the World is Staxton Wold in Yorkshire, although a shadow of its former self it was part of the High Level Chain Home System.


My brother worked there for a few years when he was in the mob.
Bill


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## chadburn (Jun 2, 2008)

Bill, Your Brother can visit what was the Underground Reserve for Staxton which is to the South at a place called Holmpton on the Coast road to Spurn Point, he may remember the place depending when he was in the Mob. It is now open to the Public as the Reserve is no longer connected to Staxton. An interesting underground Citadel with most of the old equipment still in place.
Chad.


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## RayL (Apr 16, 2008)

This programme promises to be of extraordinary interest to folks like us so we would be well advised to ensure that we don't miss it.

I understand that Sir Robert Watson-Watt felt aggrieved that his country did not adequately acknowledge the contribution he made to winning the war, and he even emigrated in disgust. Did he do something that got up the noses of the Establishment that would explain their ingratitude?


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## trotterdotpom (Apr 29, 2005)

According to Wikipedia, he returned to Scotland and is buried there, so, if he was pissed off, he must have changed his mind later on.

One of the Radar lecturers at Hull Tech, Mr Walker, was in the army and involved in the early days of Radar. He told us they used to open the wave guides and cook sausages in them. He was a little concerned about what may have happened to his genes in those days, but was proud of his contribution to the development of microwave ovens. It's not known if this research contributed in any way to the war effort.

John T


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## Bill Greig (Jul 4, 2006)

chadburn said:


> Bill, Your Brother can visit what was the Underground Reserve for Staxton which is to the South at a place called Holmpton on the Coast road to Spurn Point, he may remember the place depending when he was in the Mob. It is now open to the Public as the Reserve is no longer connected to Staxton. An interesting underground Citadel with most of the old equipment still in place.
> Chad.


Thanks Chad,
I'll pass that on to him, he was there around the mid eighties as far as I remember.
Bill


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## chadburn (Jun 2, 2008)

trotterdotpom said:


> According to Wikipedia, he returned to Scotland and is buried there, so, if he was pissed off, he must have changed his mind later on.
> 
> One of the Radar lecturers at Hull Tech, Mr Walker, was in the army and involved in the early days of Radar. He told us they used to open the wave guides and cook sausages in them. He was a little concerned about what may have happened to his genes in those days, but was proud of his contribution to the development of microwave ovens. It's not known if this research contributed in any way to the war effort.
> 
> John T


The ground below and around the Transmitting Masts at Danby Beacon is dead. Danby Beacon was another High Level Chain Home RADAR the semi underground Operation Rooms were filled with water and the doors Concreted up after the Station was shutdown. Not sure now why W.W. Was unhappy but I would suggest due to shortage of money post War it was left to the Americans to further develop it which was not unusual with many inventions. I will be watching it Ray.(Thumb)


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## King Ratt (Aug 23, 2005)

A statue to R W-W was unveiled in his home town of Brechin just yesterday.
My radar lecturer at Leith Nautical College, Mr Andrew Bogie, was involved with Watson-Watt in early experiments.


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## chadburn (Jun 2, 2008)

The name sounds familiar KR another name was Ron Jones who use to appear on television on a regular basis.
Going to have a try at posting two photos on the Site, one is of the masts at Danby Beacon and the other of a WAAF RADAR Op at the same place.


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## chadburn (Jun 2, 2008)

Photographs in the Gallery now.


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## Searcher2004 (May 3, 2012)

I thought the programme was well-produced and certainly entertaining, although I had a bad twinge of "rivet-counting" when I saw some of the radio gear they were using, most of which was American and wouldn't have been around in the era they were covering (apart from the HRO receiver, of course). Believe it was largely filmed in Scotland, although the place that was supposed to be Bawdsey Manor looked like Holkham House in Norfolk.

Anyway, a good effort and there's probably a few other WW2 technically-based stories that could be made in the same fashion; "bending the beams" springs to mind or the Bruneval Raid, maybe?


S2004.


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## chadburn (Jun 2, 2008)

I agree I thought it was very entertaining, in today's world of the throw away culture not many think of the blood, sweat and tears that went into the development of the Magnetron when the house Microwave hits the scrap bin.
After Chain Home High and Low came ROTOR a multi million pound fiasco built under G.B. 'Black Budget' funding which produced eventually the Kelvin Hughes photo plot for ships after the system came off the Top Secret list. The larger Military system used 35mm film, the ship system used 16mm?
Then we had the 'Linesman' system G.B.'s first crack at the digital/computer world, this was a complete failure as the system was so large that the Contract had to be split up between different Companies, unfortunately when the system was fired up the different systems installed could not 'Talk' to each other ( a bit like the later National Health Country wide computer system) and 'Linesman' was scrapped.
We now have UKADS.


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## Moulder (Aug 19, 2006)

Eddie Izzard is becoming a very accomplished actor - excellent drama.

(Thumb)


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## King Ratt (Aug 23, 2005)

A most enjoyable programme, I watched it earlier this morning.
Chadburn's #10 post mentions Ron Jones as being involved in radar. I think that will be R.V.Jones who wrote a good book on WW2 electronic technology stuff. I wonder if anyone on here can remember the name of that book, I would love to get my hands on a copy.
Jones eventually ended up lecturing in Aberdeen University.


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## trotterdotpom (Apr 29, 2005)

chadburn said:


> The name sounds familiar KR another name was Ron Jones who use to appear on television on a regular basis.
> Going to have a try at posting two photos on the Site, one is of the masts at Danby Beacon and the other of a WAAF RADAR Op at the same place.


My Aunty Winnie worked at Danby Beacon but I think she was a WAAC rather than a WAAF. I checked with her son and it turns out she was in the Admin side of things - I'm sure she cleared up a lot of clutter (haw haw ... radar joke). Salt of the earth, she only left us a couple of years ago.

John T


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## G4UMW (May 30, 2007)

King Ratt said:


> Chadburn's #10 post mentions Ron Jones as being involved in radar. I think that will be R.V.Jones who wrote a good book on WW2 electronic technology stuff. I wonder if anyone on here can remember the name of that book, I would love to get my hands on a copy.


In the UK it's called "Most Secret War", in the USA "The Wizard War". Available in paperback from the well-known south American riverine retailer.

HTH,
Rob


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## King Ratt (Aug 23, 2005)

Thanks G4UMW I will take that river trip!
For R651400. A perfect description of Mr Bogie. I do remember him saying when I started my studies at LNC for a PMG, you are not here just to get a ticket, lads, you are here for an education. Fine man.


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## david.hopcroft (Jun 29, 2005)

When I first visited, I only saw the gate lodge first time around. It was pretty a unspeakable place at that time with only a security guard attending. Later when the Bawdsey Manor new owners established themselves, the gate lodge was an immaculate new office complex. Unrecognisable. The portakabin though and the mast itself were fast approaching their sell by date. I regret not asking if I could have looked around the Manor on my first visit.

David

I recorded the programme, so look forward to watching it later. It had a good write up in the press.
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## alaric (Feb 27, 2012)

The method of obtaining radio valves from the Navy, as portrayed in the programme.
Was this anywhere near to what really happened?


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## chadburn (Jun 2, 2008)

trotterdotpom said:


> My Aunty Winnie worked at Danby Beacon but I think she was a WAAC rather than a WAAF. I checked with her son and it turns out she was in the Admin side of things - I'm sure she cleared up a lot of clutter (haw haw ... radar joke). Salt of the earth, she only left us a couple of years ago.
> 
> John T


John T there was all sorts of equipment on the Moors like Searchlights and Anti Aircraft Guns, the Army would have a 'Desk' at the RADAR Station who would inform these Units that aircraft had been picked up by RADAR to put them on Standby as they were manned by the Army. There would be also an Army Admin Section for the usual paperwork.


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## chadburn (Jun 2, 2008)

alaric said:


> The method of obtaining radio valves from the Navy, as portrayed in the programme.
> Was this anywhere near to what really happened?


Don't know is my answer, however, it would not surprise me as the 'liberation' of others equipment did go on. When the Long Range Desert Group was formed in N.Africa they had no tents nothing, when another Army Unit went to do a firing exercise the LRDG pinched their tents and other equipment.


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## RayL (Apr 16, 2008)

G4UMW said:


> In the UK it's called "Most Secret War", in the USA "The Wizard War". Available in paperback from the well-known south American riverine retailer.
> 
> HTH,
> Rob


There was a follow-up book he wrote too. It included the postwar developments, his trip to the U.S. on the Queen Mary, etc. Very readable--he was an accomplished writer. If the title comes to me I will post again (it's on the tip of my tongue now).

Got it!! 'Reflections on Intelligence'.


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## chadburn (Jun 2, 2008)

Searcher2004 said:


> I thought the programme was well-produced and certainly entertaining, although I had a bad twinge of "rivet-counting" when I saw some of the radio gear they were using, most of which was American and wouldn't have been around in the era they were covering (apart from the HRO receiver, of course). Believe it was largely filmed in Scotland, although the place that was supposed to be Bawdsey Manor looked like Holkham House in Norfolk.
> 
> Anyway, a good effort and there's probably a few other WW2 technically-based stories that could be made in the same fashion; "bending the beams" springs to mind or the Bruneval Raid, maybe?
> 
> ...


Beam bending/ signal distortion still goes on nearly everyday over the North Sea when 'Rookie' Fighter Pilots are sent up to intercept a target only to find there is nothing there, another specialist electronics aircraft has bounced/artificially created a Target.


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## A.D.FROST (Sep 1, 2008)

"Castles in the Sky"Eddie Izzard a English man playing Robert Watson Watt a Scot and David Hayman a Scott playing a English man Fredrick Hindemann?Thats show biz


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## chadburn (Jun 2, 2008)

In Sunderland when you drive South along the new road which leads to A19 and Dalton Park Shopping via Cold Heseldon you pass a mound on the left with a Radio Mast on top of it, underneath that mound is the former RAF Cold Heseldon a two storey re-enforced Bunker which in its day was part of the Top Secret ROTOR RADAR system. The Officers Married Quarters are South on the low road past the Pub and on the right hand side(you can't mistake military married quarters build style). The road which passes in front of them off the main road led to the Erks Camp which has now a new build housing estate which can be seen when travelling North on the A19.


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## trotterdotpom (Apr 29, 2005)

This is putting a whole new complexion on the Angel of the North, Chadburn! Could there be a giant scanner motor beneath that rusting hulk?

John T


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## chadburn (Jun 2, 2008)

My understanding is that the Angel is supposed to have the 'rusting' look apparently. The actual scanner for the ROTOR system Bunker RADAR was indeed massive but well balanced. The RADAR itself was very good but the process was let down by the Kelvin Hughes system which was integral to the whole set up. They found that the RADAR was so powerful that they shut most of the Bunkers down stripped the equipment out and abandoned them which left four, Neattishead, Holmpton, Boulmer and Buchan RADARS. Buchan was the last station to retain the massive scanner. Neattishead and Holmpton are now Museums. It was only when they started to shut down most of the Bunkers along the East Coast that it was mentioned in the H.O.P.


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## chadburn (Jun 2, 2008)

To get home early in the War the German Bombers used the Radio Berlin signal, unfortunately for them the RAF had special Signal Stations along the East Coast which bent the signal to draw the Bombers towards our Fighters. The locals to these stations were unaware what was going on as it was all Secret, however, it was commented that the same locals wondered why it was they could receive Radio Berlin better then than Radio London on their wireless sets.
I had a Telefunken reel to reel tape recorder it was a superb piece of kit.


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## trotterdotpom (Apr 29, 2005)

How do you "bend" an omnidirectional signal? Did those RAF stations actually do that or did they re-broadcast the Berlin programme?

John T


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## Binnacle (Jul 22, 2005)

More on "Aspidistra" at Crowborough

http://www.yourcrowborough.co.uk/history/the-biggest-aspidistra-in-crowborough


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## chadburn (Jun 2, 2008)

trotterdotpom said:


> How do you "bend" an omnidirectional signal? Did those RAF stations actually do that or did they re-broadcast the Berlin programme?
> 
> John T


You are right John it was a re broadcast which is why the signal was so strong for the locals, the idea was to draw the bombers in like a 'Venus Flytrap" for our Fighters along with the Bombers running out of fuel. The Bombers used Radio Berlin as a homing signal.
There was one of these installations on the hill behind Marske/Saltburn which accounts for a number of German aircraft being shot down in that area both on land and offshore.


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## trotterdotpom (Apr 29, 2005)

Thanks, Chadburn. Another plug for Marske: the WW1 RFC aerodrome at Marske (defunct in WW2) was where WE Johns, author of the Biggles books, learned to fly. Wizard.

John T


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## chadburn (Jun 2, 2008)

John I have posted something in the Gallery you may recognise being a Redcar lad, a Sound Mirror which was our early aircraft detection equipment pre Watson Watts RADAR. All the Mirrors faced to the East, on the Yorkshire Coast as far as I am aware there are three. This one at Redcar(now in the middle of a housing estate) one on the top of Boulby Cliffs and one down Spurn Point. They are now listed structures.


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## chadburn (Jun 2, 2008)

Forget about Redcar and the Sound Mirror, I will look out the information you require after my sojourn to the shops dictated to by she who must be obeyed.


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## sandhopper (Mar 15, 2013)

chadburn said:


> John I have posted something in the Gallery you may recognise being a Redcar lad, a Sound Mirror....


The TV programme Coast referred to sound mirrors. Seems they are still objects of interest:
http://www.andrewgrantham.co.uk/soundmirrors/


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## chadburn (Jun 2, 2008)

Following R6 'request' I have looked out my research papers,blew the dust off them, here we go.
For those who are unfamiliar with the history I will start at the beginning;
The Germans dropped an all mighty clanger in not realising what the tall masts that were sprouting up on the Coast of GB were for, they put them down as the normal radio station masts and not the brilliant invention of W.Watts. Subsequently the Germans suffered far more losses than they had bargained for during the daylight raids of G.B. (Battle of Britain) and decided to abandon them as the aircraft and systems were not up to the job. The Luftwaffe decided on night bombing which was far more dangerous for both German and RAF pilots ( great recommended reading a by an RAF Bomber Pilot titled 'Only Fools and Owls fly at night). The Germans tried to overcome the difficulties of flying at night, the difficulties being flying over the sea and decided on navigation 
beams the previously named Knickebein. This system relied on two beams transmxitted from two separate beacons and where they crossed was the target area. Luftwaffe Bombers were equipped to follow the Master Beam and dropped their bombs when the Slave Beam was picked up. GB realised that there was something going on, enter R.V. Jones whose job it was to find this equipment on those German Bombers that had been shot down by our Night fighters. Unfortunately it could not be found and it was decided to 'bug' the rooms of captured German Bomber Crews and the whereabouts of the secret equipment was found. G.B. Decided first on a programme to jam the German equipment and then to divert, distort the signal by re-transmission so that the bombs were dropped outside the intended area, this was done by Meacon Stations one of which was at Horse Close Farm, Marske. The further development of this system was to confuse the Luftwaffe Bomber Crews who were flying home. It came to light again through intel gathering that if the German Crew realised that the bombing system was being interfered with they switched to Radio Berlin to vector them home and again the Meacon Station re-transmitted the signal to give them a false bearing which lead them to either being shot down or running out of fuel. In the late 1940's the Germans picked up that their bombing system was being adulterated and changed to the more sophisticated X-Gerat.


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## trotterdotpom (Apr 29, 2005)

Found this info about Horse Close Farm:

Former RAF Radio Station, Horse Close Farm
This innocuous field was once part of a very secret RAF radio station. During WW2 the Germans were using a form of radio guidance using signals encoded within their Radio Bremmen transmissions. The barn is one of the few remaining features of this radio station which resubmitted Radio Bremen in order to confuse the German navigational system. Even the farmer at Horse Close Farm (the farm in the distance) didn't know what was going on at the station although he did notice he could pick up Radio Bremen better than the Home Service. Perhaps it wasn't so secret, the story goes that Lord Haw-Haw telephoned the farmer and told him that his farm was going to be bombed that night. Which it was.
© Copyright Mick Garratt and licensed for reuse under this Creative Commons Licence.

See photo.

I've wandered through Errington Woods in the background many times, including a few weeks ago, and never knew the history of what I was looking at. Thanks for bringing it up, Chadburn.

John T


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## chadburn (Jun 2, 2008)

There is more John, Yorkshire is full of what were WW2 Secrets. On the other side of the river on the Coast road to Seaton Canoe opposite the old Willy Grays Yard is the Camp for RAF Greatham Creek. On the other side of Brenda Road, a wartime Chain Home Low Level RADAR Station, Post War became one of the ROTOR System Underground Bunkers now buried under Tons of Earth/Rubbish.


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## John Dryden (Sep 26, 2009)

Seaton Canoe..very funny!


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## chadburn (Jun 2, 2008)

John, he is back in residence apparently but not in the same property, his Wife is out and living in York. As far as I am aware they have not been able to seize their assets in Panama.


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## sparks69 (Dec 18, 2005)

If you want to see the last one of the many Chain Home Radar Aerials then look at the _RAF Stenigot _ web site.
The concrete Tx & Rx buildings are still there rotting away slowly.
The aerial itself is still in use as an excellent mast for many commercial aerials.


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## RayL (Apr 16, 2008)

chadburn said:


> There is more John, Yorkshire is full of what were WW2 Secrets. On the other side of the river on the Coast road to Seaton Canoe opposite the old Willy Grays Yard is the Camp for RAF Greatham Creek. On the other side of Brenda Road, a wartime Chain Home Low Level RADAR Station, Post War became one of the ROTOR System Underground Bunkers now buried under Tons of Earth/Rubbish.


I am reminded of the debt we owe to Neville Chamberlain. All these preparations, including radar, had to be made before we could dare to face up to the threat Hitler posed. We simply wouldn't have been ready in 1938 so he bought us time.


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## chadburn (Jun 2, 2008)

sparks69 said:


> If you want to see the last one of the many Chain Home Radar Aerials then look at the _RAF Stenigot _ web site.
> The concrete Tx & Rx buildings are still there rotting away slowly.
> The aerial itself is still in use as an excellent mast for many commercial aerials.


Most of the disused Bunkers seem to have sprouted mobile phone and other aerials. Stenigot was one of the places used for the ill fated Linesman system, the aerial looked like a large dustbin lid.


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## trotterdotpom (Apr 29, 2005)

RayL said:


> I am reminded of the debt we owe to Neville Chamberlain. All these preparations, including radar, had to be made before we could dare to face up to the threat Hitler posed. We simply wouldn't have been ready in 1938 so he bought us time.


That's a new take on the "Peace in our time" speech. Is that just an opinion or was it really a delaying tactic deliberately adopted by Chamberlain?

John T


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## chadburn (Jun 2, 2008)

Indeed there are still anti parachutist Pit Props on the Coast Road to Seaton Canoe. These were amongst the many measures to protect Tees Bay including 4.5 inch Guns inland which were also used for A.A. due to their high muzzle velocity.


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## Wismajorvik (Dec 29, 2011)

Binnacle said:


> More on "Aspidistra" at Crowborough
> 
> http://www.yourcrowborough.co.uk/history/the-biggest-aspidistra-in-crowborough


I recollect that the radio station in Ottringham, (east Yorkshire) had some connection with aspidistra or some other similar operation but 
I cannot now locate that information. It definitely had some very powerful transmitters.


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## chadburn (Jun 2, 2008)

Wismajorvik said:


> I recollect that the radio station in Ottringham, (east Yorkshire) had some connection with aspidistra or some other similar operation but
> I cannot now locate that information. It definitely had some very powerful transmitters.


I had a look at Ottringham many years ago, besides some of the bases for the Masts being still in place there is also an underground reserve which I was allowed to have a look around, there was some interesting photographs of the equipment used including some very large Valves for this powerful transmitter which was used to beam the BBC Radio Broadcasts over to the Low Countries these included the covert messages to the resistance under 'V'. The station was used as the Northern Arm of BBC London. All of that area down to Spurn Point has some interesting history when it comes to Radio/ RADAR because of the landscape. The Holiday Camp/ Caravan Park further along was the living quarters for the various RADAR Stations in that area. The Low Level Chain Home RADAR Station is buried under the Easington Gas Plant.


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## RayL (Apr 16, 2008)

trotterdotpom said:


> That's a new take on the "Peace in our time" speech. Is that just an opinion or was it really a delaying tactic deliberately adopted by Chamberlain?
> 
> John T


My opinion. I feel that Chamberlain's contribution has been maligned. Think of what would have happened if we had confronted Hitler before we were ready.


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## Cisco (Jan 29, 2007)

I think Chamberlain suffered from a bit of 'revisionist history' early on....

Some interesting stuff here.. http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/58806042


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## RayL (Apr 16, 2008)

Perhaps it is too strong to claim that Chamberlain's actions were a conscious attempt to buy time. I admit they could have just been a good man's desperate attempt to try and avoid another disastrous war and thus save millions of lives; but as things turned out, the delay was just what we needed to organise ourselves and prepare, so I still give him credit. Taking the Battle of Britain as an example, we only just won it as it was, so if we had not been so prepared we can well imagine that the Luftwaffe would have been the victor and invasion might have followed.


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## RayL (Apr 16, 2008)

alaric said:


> The method of obtaining radio valves from the Navy, as portrayed in the programme.
> Was this anywhere near to what really happened?


Generally speaking, you got the impression watching the programme that it was a sincere attempt to tell the tale as accurately and as fully as possible, within the time limits of a 90-mins telling of it. This would also explain the unevenness of the programme, it being so important to include this fact or that crisis so that the viewer would miss nothing of importance.

The pressure on them to complete their development of a radio locator system and create five stations for demonstration must have been absolutely enormous, and as we saw, it cost WW his marriage.

They were consciously working to save their country if and when it was attacked by Hitler's superior force, and this was depicted too.

We'll never know whether Lindemann's Oxbridge scientists could have achieved what they achieved, which is a pity, for if the answer was 'no', it would heap even more massive glory on the heads of WW and his men.


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## david.hopcroft (Jun 29, 2005)

I thought that Lindemann's character was played well. Discouraging WW's efforts in favour of his team, but when it was shown that WW's system would actually work, he jumped ship and tried to take all the credit. Or have I got that wrong ??

David

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## Ancient-Mariner (Mar 30, 2009)

My maternal grandfather was involved with installing radar around the UK during WW2. In fact that is how my mother from south London met her husband and my father in north Wales - my grandfather being based locally at the time at RAF Sealand. Previously he had worked for some time at RAF Kidbrooke as an electrical engineer.

Looking to dig into some family history, a few weeks ago I contacted the MoD to enquire into what my grandfather actually did. Their reply was not very helpful: "Records relating to civilian employees are only retained for 100 years from date of birth (following guidance from The National Archives). I am sorry therefore to have to inform you that no records are held by the Department." 

So, seeing that my grandfather was born in 1885 his file there has long since gone. (Heck, my MoD file for when I too worked at RAF Sealand will be shredded in 35 years time!)

However, there are a few loose ends relating to my grandfather, such as so far being able to obtain a copy of his birth certificate despite me having an official copy which is falling apart.... So I am currently pursuing enquiries.

Cheers!

Clive


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## RayL (Apr 16, 2008)

I agree that Lindemann was well played. Lindemann just wanted his country to win the war if it broke out, and he knew via his spy ('Higgy') that Watson Watt's efforts were floundering. WW probably just seemed too slow and amateurish to him, so he wanted to hand the project over to the clever Oxbridge academics who he had more confidence in. As soon as WW demonstrated that he had built a viable system, Lindemann stopped actively opposing him although he still urged him to consider handing the project over so that it could be finished off by his academics. Later on, Lindemann proved his worth by obtaining the new small valves for WW; without them the Chain Home system wouldn't have been effective. This, at least, is the story that the programme told.


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## RayL (Apr 16, 2008)

David, do you remember Mr. Bonner at Riversdale? He had worked at one of the Chain Home stations but I don't know when or where. I recall that he was very keen on a detailed book on radio written by one Sheingold, so that was always how it was referred to ("See what Sheingold has to say about it" was commonly heard in his classroom). It's high time I dug my dusty copy out of its hiding place and dipped into it for old times' sake!


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## trotterdotpom (Apr 29, 2005)

I'm imagining a box of valves received from the navy with "used but good" written on it.

John T


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## RayL (Apr 16, 2008)

I've found my copy of "Sheingold" and I see that it was an American publication, first printed in 1951 (mine is the 1961 edition). Its title is Fundamentals of Radio Communications. Cost me 64 shillings in 1963 so it must have hurt my pocket! Abraham Sheingold was Associate Professor of Electronics U.S. Naval Postgraduate School. All valves of course--and surprisingly transistors are not even mentioned.


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## trotterdotpom (Apr 29, 2005)

R651400 said:


> #69... Don't suppose a CV number rings any bells?


Are you referring to a Curriculum Vitae or a CV valve number. I'm not that anal retentive but Mr Google tells me CV1091.

John T


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## trotterdotpom (Apr 29, 2005)

R651400 said:


> Not sure what anal retentive means..
> Is that apposite from posting incontinence?
> CV as in coefficient of velocity...


I'd say "anal retentive" is opposite of "posting incontinence" rather than "apposite".

The term refers to folk who retain Valve, Train, Washing Machine Numbers, etc. in their back passage for some reason. I hope that helps.

John T


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## Varley (Oct 1, 2006)

My washing machine is by my back entrance. I don't see why that means I lack "digestive finish". Its next to the deep freeze and the gasmeter what additional Freudian load does that add? 

I have to deal with the conservation officer. I know how to define the ailment!


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## M29 (Apr 20, 2007)

RayL said:


> David, do you remember Mr. Bonner at Riversdale? He had worked at one of the Chain Home stations but I don't know when or where. I recall that he was very keen on a detailed book on radio written by one Sheingold, so that was always how it was referred to ("See what Sheingold has to say about it" was commonly heard in his classroom). It's high time I dug my dusty copy out of its hiding place and dipped into it for old times' sake!


Hi Ray, I well remember Mr Bonner during my time at Riversdale (1965-1967). He had a party trick which was to wiggle his ears, very strange! He took us for physical science amongs other things.
Best Wishes
Alan


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## RayL (Apr 16, 2008)

Thanks Alan, I'd quite forgotten about that. Somebody in my class made him angry once because they'd written a message with their finger in the dust on his car and he felt that the paintwork could have been scratched by the grit. I don't think they owned up.

A bit late now, but I wish I'd chatted to him about his experiences in the Chain Home station. It seems you get more inquisitive as you age, but then it's too late.


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## david.hopcroft (Jun 29, 2005)

I was at Riversdale 1961-63, but can't recall Mr Bonner. I don't recall 'physical Science' either.

David
+


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## RayL (Apr 16, 2008)

He must have arrived in 1963--from the R.A.F. I think.

I don't recall a subject called Physical Science either, so I guess it must have commenced 1965 or 1966.


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## chadburn (Jun 2, 2008)

Varley said:


> My washing machine is by my back entrance. I don't see why that means I lack "digestive finish". Its next to the deep freeze and the gasmeter what additional Freudian load does that add?
> 
> I have to deal with the conservation officer. I know how to define the ailment!


An open cage electric motor on the washing machine not far from the gasmeter?


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## Varley (Oct 1, 2006)

You would not worry in this house, the ventilation is fabulous at all times. Anyway, the gas meter is not supposed to leak (although I did have an incident when I lived in Glasgow - meter replaced during ship visit. House smelled strongly of gas on my return. Rude and supercilious twerp who came to resolder the joints declined to put explosimeter underfloor (meter was in cupboard could easily have forced leak downwards).

Why does every tradesman think he knows more about a dwelling than the dweller?


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## Ron Stringer (Mar 15, 2005)

Varley said:


> ...I did have an incident when I lived in Glasgow - meter replaced during ship visit. House smelled strongly of gas on my return. Rude and supercilious twerp who came to resolder the joints declined to put explosimeter underfloor (meter was in cupboard could easily have forced leak downwards).


The first house that we bought had been fitted with gas at the beginning of the 20th century, using pipes made from something called 'compo'. Since it had gas lighting, pipes ran all over the place and leaks were common. So the second job that I did (the first was to replace the electrics which had been added later, using surface-mounted wiring of frighteningly inadequate rating) was to re-pipe the place using copper pipe and Yorkshire fittings.

Having been trained to run wave-guide for ships' radars, I did the job meticulously, making sure that every joint was carefully squared-off, prepared and cleaned before soldering. The finished job was immaculate, regardless of how difficult it was to work in the restricted spaces under the floorboards. Of course everything then had to be pressure tested before it could go live and Eastern Gas sent a man to do the job. 

He immediately detected a loss of pressure and set off to find the leak. This involved him in sawing through almost every pipe that I had fitted and isolating each branch. Eventually he traced the leak - it was in the meter connections fitted by the gas board.

Having sorted that, he then proceeded to reconnect the cut pipes, without cleaning or preparing any of the joints, just whacking on the straight-through couplings and applying some solder. What a cowboy, I thought; I could have cried. 

We then went on to live there for nearly 30 years and never had a single gas leak.


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## Varley (Oct 1, 2006)

Ron, I don't think we've had one here in 47 years. But then the ventilation is really good!


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## trotterdotpom (Apr 29, 2005)

Our next door neighbours had a shilling in the slot gasmeter. One of their sons broke into the cash box and, prior to clearing off with the money, he put a shilling through the slot lots of times to build up a good supply of gas for his Mam and Dad - he was a good lad who loved his Mam. Mam and Dad assumed that their opposite number was feeding the meter. By the time the gas ran out, The Military Police had already caught up with No. 2 son.

Remember when gas and electricity meter cash boxes were the first port of call for burglars? That would have been in the "good old days" I think.

John T


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## Varley (Oct 1, 2006)

The military? What sort of gas was it?


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## trotterdotpom (Apr 29, 2005)

Varley said:


> The military? What sort of gas was it?


I forgot to mention, he was an absconder from Muenchen Gladbach - remember that? "What's the weather like where you are, Judith?" 

Just common or garden coal gas, David - years before the non- suicidal North Sea stuff appeared.

John T


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## RayL (Apr 16, 2008)

trotterdotpom said:


> I forgot to mention, he was an absconder from Muenchen Gladbach - remember that? "What's the weather like where you are, Judith?"
> 
> Just common or garden coal gas, David - years before the non- suicidal North Sea stuff appeared.
> 
> John T


Doesn't sound like a good lad to me.


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## chadburn (Jun 2, 2008)

When they built the ROTOR RADAR system the Emergency Gennie was placed in a building which looked like a small Chapel with the exhaust going up the Bell Tower to disguise it's true purpose. This type of building was not on the main site but some distance away. When HMG decided to abandon the Bunkers they removed the the RADAR equipment and the Emergency Gennie but left the cable between them because of crops in the fields. They never went back and some of the Farmers made quite a bit of money out of the heavy copper cable.


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## trotterdotpom (Apr 29, 2005)

RayL said:


> Doesn't sound like a good lad to me.


That was meant to be ironic, Ray.

John T


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## RayL (Apr 16, 2008)

trotterdotpom said:


> That was meant to be ironic, Ray.
> 
> John T


Oh gawd - I'm in trouble again! I've already just had to apologise for not recognising a humorous thread.


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## trotterdotpom (Apr 29, 2005)

Relax Ray, after 4000 pages of Satanical Macanical failed political theories we're all a little tired.

Wonder what the next SN Marathon will be?

John

PS whoops, wrong thread! I thought it was one of the Scottish Independence ones. Not to worry, I think James Watt invented Radar.


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## duncs (Sep 8, 2008)

R651400 said:


> Or maybe a bit of genuine radar theory in any shape or form.
> 
> British development in magnetrons anyone?
> 
> Over to you Bob Clay.


No mention of Randall and Boot!!


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## Binnacle (Jul 22, 2005)

duncs said:


> No mention of Randall and Boot!!


http://openplaques.org/plaques/7345


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## Varley (Oct 1, 2006)

I skipped radar-only in favour of the more generalist electronics (so called 'advanced'). I would therefore appreciate such discussion/tutorial. What about the fabulous SharpEye - an idiots' guide to it's MO would be much appreciated.

(My one act of faith was to have successfully specified one of these without knowing how it worked).


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