# Wooden Bridge Fronts



## Taxonomist (Nov 24, 2016)

Many cargo vessels and tankers built as late as the 1950s had wooden fronts to their bridges, even though the rest of their superstructures were steel. Why was this so? Was the wooden front at these late dates merely a design feature, an echo of past practice, perhaps, or were there practical reasons? All comments are welcome.


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## Barrie Youde (May 29, 2006)

#1 

All of those things: and largely unfortunate.

It was a design feature which has continued to dehumanise much of maritime life.

Many of us here are grateful that we saw things before other things happened.


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## Stephen J. Card (Nov 5, 2006)

Bridge teak front. Sad loss.

Bridge wing teak railings disappeared. Teak wheelhouse doors.


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## Stephen J. Card (Nov 5, 2006)

Taxonomist said:


> Many cargo vessels and tankers built as late as the 1950s had wooden fronts to their bridges, even though the rest of their superstructures were steel. Why was this so? Was the wooden front at these late dates merely a design feature, an echo of past practice, perhaps, or were there practical reasons? All comments are welcome.




Reduce interference of magnetic field around the ship's magnetic compass. This was the reason why most of the wheelhouse is wood construction. When gyro compass cam in then it was not so critical. The wooden bridge front was a hang over from the past and 'bright work' looked very smart.


Stephen


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## Farmer John (Feb 22, 2012)

Marshall Meek states that (at least in some cases) it reduced weight. Since he was Blue Flue's Naval Architect for some time, I'll take his word for it. When I have time, I'll check his book, but I am sure it is one reason.


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## spongebob (Dec 11, 2007)

To give the deck crew some brightwork to varnish?


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## Pat Kennedy (Apr 14, 2007)

spongebob said:


> To I've the deck crew some brightwork to varnish?


In Blud Funnel, that particular jkb was reserved for the middies.
I never touvhed a pot of varnish in my time there.(Thumb)


That's the result when you cant find your reading glasses.
The shame of it!:sweatSad)


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## Robert Hilton (Feb 13, 2011)

Pat Kennedy said:


> In Blud Funnel, that particular jkb was reserved for the middies.
> I never touvhed a pot of varnish in my time there.(Thumb)


Quite right, though other companies called us apprentices. Applying varnish was the easy reward for all that scraping and sanding. Teak rails would be either bare and oiled after vigorous treatment with sand and canvas, or they would be scraped, sanded and varnished, only to be scraped, oiled and sand and canvassed again whenever the a new mate with different ideas arrived.


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## Stephen J. Card (Nov 5, 2006)

In the POLAR URUGUAY built 1960, (Hamburg Sud but as Uiterwijk Lines) the hull and superstructure was steel... as usual. The top of the money island with standard compass was partly aluminium. Partly, a square plated, roughly 5m x 5m was aluminium. Not a welded connection, it was bolted together. The signal mast, quite close to the compass was all of aluminium as well. The reason? To reduce the magnetic interference.


For many ships it was definitely for cosmetic purposes. The two Furness Line ship Monarch of Bermuda and Queen of Bermuda. The wheelhouse was all of steel construction but the bridge front, wind cabs etc was all teak cladded. Served no purpose other than for cosmetic purposes. The ship were built 1931/32 and about five years later the teal was removed. To costly to maintain.

The earlier Furness m.s. Bermuda of 1928. The whole bridge, house, cabs was steel framed and then made from teak. The ship went on fire in 1931 and the whole bridge was burnt... and rest of the superstructure as well. Taken to Belfast for rebuilding the bridge was then all steel. Before completion the whole ship went on fire again!


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## seaman38 (Mar 16, 2016)

Robert Hilton said:


> Quite right, though other companies called us apprentices. Applying varnish was the easy reward for all that scraping and sanding. Teak rails would be either bare and oiled after vigorous treatment with sand and canvas, or they would be scraped, sanded and varnished, only to be scraped, oiled and sand and canvassed again whenever the a new mate with different ideas arrived.


and don't forget the B O T Lime juice to bleach and bring out the grain prior varnishing, and as you say until the new mate arrives with different ideas.

Holy stoning and sand and canvas certainly built up the muscles, we didn't need on-board gyms in those days


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## stein (Nov 4, 2006)

The interior of plastic and steel yachts are still largely wood, a living material that people deem more pleasant to touch than any man-made material. Why this should be so, I believe nobody has satisfactorily explained.


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## Barrie Youde (May 29, 2006)

#11 

The principle, surely, is that there's no accounting for taste!

Some see beauty in large modern cruise liners and private moror-yachts (generally known as gin palaces); while others, at least equally in pursuit of pleasure, abhor such things. One man's meat is another man's poison.


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## Stephen J. Card (Nov 5, 2006)

stein said:


> The interior of plastic and steel yachts are still largely wood, a living material that people deem more pleasant to touch than any man-made material. Why this should be so, I believe nobody has satisfactorily explained.



How about modern cruise ships. The decks are now cladded made of some plastic composition. It is brown and even comes with black stripes to look like caulking. It might look like a wooden deck but it feels completely false. We are not easily fooled!


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## spongebob (Dec 11, 2007)

It is a connection with nature for some , modernity and expediency for others .
You cannot deny that a warm sheep wool jersey is far more comfortable than a cotton based synthetic yarn . 
Raw timber likewise in the ship, yacht, boat or home its natural richness adds a dimension for me .
Nowadays even the garden lawn is in the firing line as synthetic turf invades the outdoor space .

Bob


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## Stephen J. Card (Nov 5, 2006)

As they used to say...

If we were supposed to have GRP boats we would have GRP trees!


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## spongebob (Dec 11, 2007)

Then again, we are told that it took 100 acres of mature English Oaks to build the Mary Rose, thank goodness for iron and steel .
One of the obvious lacks of marine culture is the use of chrome plate to cover brass !!

Bob


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## david freeman (Jan 26, 2006)

Stephen J. Card said:


> Reduce interference of magnetic field around the ship's magnetic compass. This was the reason why most of the wheelhouse is wood construction. When gyro compass cam in then it was not so critical. The wooden bridge front was a hang over from the past and 'bright work' looked very smart.
> 
> 
> Stephen


This is just about correct. I am suprised no deck cadet/officer has commented on this subject, and the swinging of the compass after drydock or off gibraltra.
If memory serves me correctly the standard marine compass on the ship was in a standard column, and it was cladd in wood. If one removed the outer wood, where there not staves of iron/material which was within the column and surrounding the ''inner pedestal'' and it was when swinging the compass, these rods of ''iron, material'' positionesd to give the compass a true north reading, regardless of the vessels surround steel, and iron?.
Hence the 'swinging of the compass was generally only completed after drydock where a lots of steelwork structure had been repaired/refurbished.
The standard tower/stand was a 'Binnacle' as described in ''wikileaks'' This engineer is fumbling, but still they have pictures of the 'binnacle and its balls of steel, but no internal details beneath the actual compass?? Thats for you? It may be all Balls off course???


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## Pilot mac (Jun 28, 2005)

seaman38 said:


> and don't forget the B O T Lime juice to bleach and bring out the grain prior varnishing, and as you say until the new mate arrives with different ideas.
> 
> Holy stoning and sand and canvas certainly built up the muscles, we didn't need on-board gyms in those days



or Gravy browning to darken the wood!


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## Robert Hilton (Feb 13, 2011)

david freeman said:


> This is just about correct. I am suprised no deck cadet/officer has commented on this subject, and the swinging of the compass after drydock or off gibraltra.
> If memory serves me correctly the standard marine compass on the ship was in a standard column, and it was cladd in wood. If one removed the outer wood, where there not staves of iron/material which was within the column and surrounding the ''inner pedestal'' and it was when swinging the compass, these rods of ''iron, material'' positionesd to give the compass a true north reading, regardless of the vessels surround steel, and iron?.
> Hence the 'swinging of the compass was generally only completed after drydock where a lots of steelwork structure had been repaired/refurbished.
> The standard tower/stand was a 'Binnacle' as described in ''wikileaks'' This engineer is fumbling, but still they have pictures of the 'binnacle and its balls of steel, but no internal details beneath the actual compass?? Thats for you? It may be all Balls off course???


Nevertheless the ship only needs swinging, or the compass adjusting, after building or after repair work or alterations. So whatever the material the compass will only be affected by change of the ship's magnetic field after adjustment leading to compass deviation. This can also be caused slightly by the ship's vibration on a long run on the same course and rather more by a cargo of iron or steel. The material of which the ship is built is mainly only a factor in the initial adjustment of the compass.


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## tugger (Nov 28, 2006)

In 2010 I spent weeks sanding, scrapping, and oiling then varnishing the bridges and wheelhouses on the old South Steyne in Darling Harbour in Sydney, then when that was finished the taff rails that where on both decks, lovely sunshine no pressure.
Tugger


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## russellward (Feb 6, 2013)

Many cargo vessels and tankers built as late as the 1950s had wooden fronts to their bridges, even though the rest of their superstructures were steel. Why was this so? 
Was it for style or was it perchance that there was a magnetic compass close to?


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## seaman38 (Mar 16, 2016)

russellward said:


> Many cargo vessels and tankers built as late as the 1950s had wooden fronts to their bridges, even though the rest of their superstructures were steel. Why was this so?
> Was it for style or was it perchance that there was a magnetic compass close to?


See #19 for a logical explanation. Also don't forget British shipbuilders were loathe to change their ways, that's why we lost the industry


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## Frank P (Mar 13, 2005)

Robert Hilton said:


> Quite right, though other companies called us apprentices. Applying varnish was the easy reward for all that scraping and sanding. Teak rails would be either bare and oiled after vigorous treatment with sand and canvas, or they would be scraped, sanded and varnished, only to be scraped, oiled and sand and canvassed again whenever the a new mate with different ideas arrived.


Robert, if it was the apprentices that were doing the sanding and varnishing, what was the carpenter doing with his time. 
As I have said before I only sailed on European ships mainly Norwegian and on the ships that I sailed on it was the carpenter's job to maintain all of the woodwork around the ship and if he had a big job to do he would have another deckie to help him. But there again I have never sailed on a ship with apprentices or cadets.

Cheers Frank


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## seaman38 (Mar 16, 2016)

Frank P said:


> Robert, if it was the apprentices that were doing the sanding and varnishing, what was the carpenter doing with his time.
> As I have said before I only sailed on European ships mainly Norwegian and on the ships that I sailed on it was the carpenter's job to maintain all of the woodwork around the ship and if he had a big job to do he would have another deckie to help him. But there again I have never sailed on a ship with apprentices or cadets.
> 
> Cheers Frank


Apprentices (cadets) were very very cheap labour and you could use them for hours on end without the need to pay them overtime. They were great value to a shipowner at £72 per annum (1950's)


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## duquesa (Aug 31, 2006)

seaman38 said:


> Apprentices (cadets) were very very cheap labour and you could use them for hours on end without the need to pay them overtime. They were great value to a shipowner at £72 per annum (1950's)


I sailed on ships as one of four and sometimes two apprentices. We were happy and well looked after. Good company and much attention was paid to our education although this did depend to a degree on the C/O or 1/O. However, it was part of our voyage routine to maintain the "brightwork" including two large gangways to the highest standard.. We all took huge pleasure in so doing and the results were a delight. No varnish work ever looked better. If the company appeared to be or were gaining cheap labour, it never occurred to any of us at that time. Wonderful days.


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## Stephen J. Card (Nov 5, 2006)

Some apprentices or cadets used to enjoy doing the 'brightwork'. When you enjoy doing something it ceases to be work!


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## genejay2 (Nov 7, 2017)

I was an apprentice on "MT SHELL" sailing out of Durban during either 1978/79 when I did all the weather doors-sanded down, linseed oiled, then several coats of varnish-Thought I had done a marvelous job, only to have the company scrap her about a month later-also did not think that my "labour of love" was slave labour-all that fresh air and sunshine was great-plus it kept the First Mate off my back.


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## OilJiver (Jun 30, 2014)

Heavy wooden weather deck doors do look great when well preserved Genejay. 
Not so great when shipping green stuff though!


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## onestar (Apr 12, 2008)

I sailed on the Shell Tanker Standella, built in 1934 (?). The entire bridge was of wooden construction, the wooden deck forming the deckhead of the Master' s accommodation below. We had only magnetic compasses which was the reason for this form of construction. 
Concerning ships magnetism, permanent magnetism is induced from the Earth's lines of force. Strength and nature of this magnetism depends largely on the direction in which she was orientated whilst under construction and the magnetic latitude.
Deviation is caused by many variable factors which require the compass to be swung annually, or at least that was what it was!
The "balls" referred to earlier are the quadrantal spheres, which can be moved in or out, or even slewed under certain cir***stances while doing compass adjustment.
I was qualified to adjust compasses, but that was a long time ago!


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## Davie M (Apr 17, 2009)

stein said:


> The interior of plastic and steel yachts are still largely wood, a living material that people deem more pleasant to touch than any man-made material. Why this should be so, I believe nobody has satisfactorily explained.


Hi Stein, The reason that lots of different “ linings “ are used on the inside on small grp and steel hulls is not only making the inside more comfortable but it also hides a multitude of cables and pipe work.
It also provides, to either hold insulation in situ or cover the rough foam outer layer depending on which type is used to insulate with.
Having experienced first hand sailing in a small steel yacht over many years the problem with condensation can be a real menace more so that with grp. I solved the grp problem with cork floor tiles glued to the grp.
With the steel I used rockwool so it required an inner lining if only to stop it collecting dust, not good enough said wife so lined with with t&g American white ash. Ended up with a wooden boat inside a steel hull.
Davie


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## Frank P (Mar 13, 2005)

If the apprentices/cadets were doing all this woodwork what was the carpenter doing?

Frank


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## seaman38 (Mar 16, 2016)

duquesa said:


> I sailed on ships as one of four and sometimes two apprentices. We were happy and well looked after. Good company and much attention was paid to our education although this did depend to a degree on the C/O or 1/O. However, it was part of our voyage routine to maintain the "brightwork" including two large gangways to the highest standard.. We all took huge pleasure in so doing and the results were a delight. No varnish work ever looked better. If the company appeared to be or were gaining cheap labour, it never occurred to any of us at that time. Wonderful days.


The 'Liner' company I served my time with (50's) all the C/O's had the same attitude, to get as much work out of the cadets, who were not paid overtime, as possible to save paying the deck crew overtime. Up every morning 0630 hours to wash down the bridge, boat deck and prom deck regardless of weather, so the few passengers had clean places to walk, set out a dozen heavy steamer chairs, all before 0800, change into uniform for an 0800 breakfast and be back on deck in working gear by 0830. No apprentices kept sea watches as that meant they would be considered idle, rather than continuing their education of ship construction by close up work of chipping and painting. No time off for studying, knock off 1800 in the saloon by 1900, back on deck at 2000 to stow steamer chairs, then study if you could keep your eyes open.

In port down WCSA temps 90 -100f down the hatches cargo watching making sure no cargo overstowed or over carried, keeping an eye on 20 - 30 tough stevedores (versus 1 x 16 yr old) to prevent them pilfering pilfering, normal stretch down a hatch 14 -18 hours with 30 minute meal breaks. Then off course there was the derrick and jumbo work, not saying I didn't enjoy it at the time, we knew no better. It was only after joining other companies you saw how it should be done.

After finishing my time my next deep sea ship was one of Ropners, cadets got paid overtime and in the afternoon, I taught them chartwork, semaphore, morse and aldis lamps and other subjects. If they wanted to, in the evenings they would go on the foc'le and I would send them messages on the all round morse lamp, if no ships in the vicinity. The accommodation was good, the food was good and the Masters and C/O's (apart from one) had an interest in their officers and cadets progress.


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## Stephen J. Card (Nov 5, 2006)

I ordered teak to make two gangway rails. The teak arrived the same day Chippy was going away on leave. So, set to work make them. Shaping, fixing onto the gangway. No problem. The Old Man said I was the highest paid Chippy in the fleet!

I did five years in Technical School, The Bermuda Technical Institute. Apart from the usual, maths, physics, Eng language etc we did Metal Work Shop, Metal Technology, Wood Work Ship, Metal Technology and Technical Drawing. I did a little bit of coastal navigation at night school. I did an O Level ART with Distinction.... I didn't do any art classes. 

It was the five years at the Tech that was most useful for a career at sea.


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## Engine Serang (Oct 15, 2012)

The Bermuda Technical Institute, you couldn't make it up.


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## Stephen J. Card (Nov 5, 2006)

Ah, but you might have been confused if you saw the address.... DEVONSHIRE!

1965. All schools were desegregated. Went from a 100% white school to a 95% black school. We didn't think about race. The only thing that was crammed down our throats was 'O- LEVELS'. Half of the teachers were black and the other were white... all UK.

The Head was from Lancashire. Years later he was retired and I was Harbour Master. The former Head was given a small temp job in the office. One morning he came in late. I went to his little room and said grumpily, "Crawford! YOU ARE LATE!!!!"


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## duquesa (Aug 31, 2006)

seaman38 said:


> The 'Liner' company I served my time with (50's) all the C/O's had the same attitude, to get as much work out of the cadets, who were not paid overtime, as possible to save paying the deck crew overtime. Up every morning 0630 hours to wash down the bridge, boat deck and prom deck regardless of weather, so the few passengers had clean places to walk, set out a dozen heavy steamer chairs, all before 0800, change into uniform for an 0800 breakfast and be back on deck in working gear by 0830. No apprentices kept sea watches as that meant they would be considered idle, rather than continuing their education of ship construction by close up work of chipping and painting. No time off for studying, knock off 1800 in the saloon by 1900, back on deck at 2000 to stow steamer chairs, then study if you could keep your eyes open.
> 
> In port down WCSA temps 90 -100f down the hatches cargo watching making sure no cargo overstowed or over carried, keeping an eye on 20 - 30 tough stevedores (versus 1 x 16 yr old) to prevent them pilfering pilfering, normal stretch down a hatch 14 -18 hours with 30 minute meal breaks. Then off course there was the derrick and jumbo work, not saying I didn't enjoy it at the time, we knew no better. It was only after joining other companies you saw how it should be done.
> 
> After finishing my time my next deep sea ship was one of Ropners, cadets got paid overtime and in the afternoon, I taught them chartwork, semaphore, morse and aldis lamps and other subjects. If they wanted to, in the evenings they would go on the foc'le and I would send them messages on the all round morse lamp, if no ships in the vicinity. The accommodation was good, the food was good and the Masters and C/O's (apart from one) had an interest in their officers and cadets progress.


Always did hear stories of apprentice hardship in a certain company down WCSA!! In my pre sea college we had an officer who had served years there and he was forever saying: If you guys have any idea of going into that outfit, forget it.


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## Ian J. Huckin (Sep 27, 2008)

Barrie Youde said:


> #11
> 
> The principle, surely, is that there's no accounting for taste!
> 
> Some see beauty in large modern cruise liners and private moror-yachts (generally known as gin palaces); while others, at least equally in pursuit of pleasure, abhor such things. One man's meat is another man's poison.


I always worked on the assumption that one man's meat was another man's meat...given half the chance!!!


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## Pat Kennedy (Apr 14, 2007)

Ian J. Huckin said:


> I always worked on the assumption that one man's meat was another man's meat...given half the chance!!!


Or these days, One man's beef is another man's cunningly disguised horse.(EEK)


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## Robert Hilton (Feb 13, 2011)

Barrie Youde said:


> The principle, surely, is that there's no accounting for taste!
> 
> Some see beauty in large modern cruise liners and private moror-yachts (generally known as gin palaces).


Motor yachts are now sex barges. We called them that in the 50's.


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## Davie M (Apr 17, 2009)

Robert Hilton said:


> Motor yachts are now sex barges. We called them that in the 50's.


Coming from Morningside we generally have dinner at sex(Jester)


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## Pat Kennedy (Apr 14, 2007)

Frank P said:


> If the apprentices/cadets were doing all this woodwork what was the carpenter doing?
> 
> Frank



Hardly woodwork Frank.
More like painting and decorating I would have thought, and on some ships it was pure makee workee like polishing the ship's bell on the focsle with cotton waste and Rose's Lime juice, which was favoured by many Blue Flue bosuns to keep the deck boy out of mischief in the afternoons.
Pat(Thumb)


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