# City of Swansea 1946-1947



## Paul E (Apr 8, 2021)

I hope that someone on here may be able to help.
I am researching my Grandfather's Merchant Navy service during the war and, while I have made good progress in most of the ships he served on, I am drawn a blank on two ships he was on at the very end of the war and into 1947
These were the "City of Chester", which he joined in july 1946 and left in Sept 1946. He was then on the City of Swansea from October 1946 - July 1947. I know from other do***entation I have that the Swansea went down to Australia/New Zealand, but would love to see details.
His name was Sammy Barker who served as 3rd engineer on these ships and, prior to that, the Empire Bombardier and various Athel line ships 

Many thanks in advance


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## Roger Griffiths (Feb 10, 2006)

Hello and welcome, 
First a couple of Questions. 
Do you have your grandfathers "Seamans Pouch"? Do you have his form CRS10?
Could you tell us what records you do have
With regards to the ships both were owned by Ellerman Lines CITY OF CHESTER official number168876 and CITY OF SWANSEA O/N 181016
A comprehensive archive of Ellerman Lines is held by The University of Glasgow. Among other info there is a Register of Engineers


https://archiveshub.jisc.ac.uk/search/archives/e946538d-e849-36cf-b076-183f21511c42?component=79c606f1-b9f6-321b-80dc-c26021



Logbooks and Crew Agreements are held at The National Archives search with the ships official number.
These will tell you exactly where and when the ships sailed to, and may contain anecdots concerning your man.
.Both archives would require a personal visit to view the do***ents or you could employ a researcher to look for you. Both archives are closed at the moment but are due to reopen in the near future.







(MERCHANT). Official Number: 180979, 180982, 180983, 180987, 180989, 180991, 180995,... | The National Archives


The official archive of the UK government. Our vision is to lead and transform information management, guarantee the survival of today's information for tomorrow and bring history to life for everyone.




discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk









168876; 168877; 168879; 168882; 168883; 168884; 168887; 168889 | The National Archives


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Another useful site Crew List Index Project

Regards
Roger


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## Paul E (Apr 8, 2021)

Roger, firstly many thanks for coming back to me so promptly. it is greatly appreciated.
My mother, Sam Barker's daughter, did a lot of research some years ago and I took that up and now have a large number of records, including the convoy records, of most of the trips he undertook. However, having recently taken early retirement, I now have time to revisit this project and look at the trips he did at the very end of the war and in 1947, when he finished "on the ships".
I am not familiar with the CRS10 form you refer to, but I do have copies of his CRS8, his war medals certificate (My mother still has the medals themselves) and a copy of his continuous certificate of discharge.
I know he was sailing on the "City of Lille", another Ellerman ship from June 1945 to July 46, and I have a copy of the Log book of this ship. However I have very little on the City of Chester, which I suspect he was only on while it was being repaired, nor the "City of Swansea".
I am very keen to get to the National Archives once they are back open, but before go I want to know exactly what I want to look for 

Thanks again
Paul


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## Roger Griffiths (Feb 10, 2006)

Hello again, 
You wrote
I am not familiar with the CRS10 form you refer to, 
The form CRS10 will tell you all the vessels he sailed on from early 1941. Together with dates and place's of engagement and discharge. If you like It's the "office copy" of his discharge book If anywhere it should be here.






Barker L to Barlow E | The National Archives


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If not try here.





Search results: | The National Archives


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You will need to complete a form to obtain these records. 
Together with his Seaman's Pouch if you do not have, It may contain a photograph of your grandad.
It should be one of these.






Search results: "barker s" | The National Archives


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Both these sets of records are stored alphabetically in blocks of 60 names . You will need to view in the invigelation room.
TNA staff will help you if your in doubt as to the protocol.
Apart from the Crew Agreements and Logbooks mentioned in my first post, I cannot think of anything else. If I do I will make another post.

regards
Roger


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## John Gowers (Jul 18, 2018)

Hi Guys,
I have my wife's grandfather discharge book showing all the RN ships he sailed on during WW2. I know from the discharge book where he joined and left these vessels. Is there anyway of finding out which other ports these vessels visited. 
His name was Robert Maclaren DOB 4/11/1909 Discharge book # R227455

Will I be able to find this info if I register using the links above also is it free to register?
Regards
John


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## Roger Griffiths (Feb 10, 2006)

Hello John, 
The only thing I could find on your wifes grandfather is this





Name: MacLaren, Robert . Service number: R227455 . Place of birth: Glasgow . Date of... | The National Archives


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If you have his Discharge Book I doubt there will be any more information other than what you already have. If you could name the ships he sailed on together with dates we may be able to direct you further.
It costs nothing to register with TNA. Idealy it is best to visit as very little is available on line.

regards
Roger


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## John Gowers (Jul 18, 2018)

Hi Roger,
He was a carpenter on the following having signed up in 1940. I think most of the ships had been merchant vessels converted to RN use.

HMS Dunnotter Castle 3/8/40 to 7/9/42
HMS Mersey 8/9/42 to 9/9/42 must be the shortest trip in history one day
HMS Bitter 10/9/42 to 29/1/45 and this must be the longest
HMS Mersey 30/1/45 to 29/3/45
HMS Begum 30/3/45 to 14/4/45 .
HMS Mersey 15/4/45 to 23/4/45
HMS Tasajera 24/4/45 to 13/8/45 
HMS Mersey 14/8/45 to 1/1/46

I have a copy of his release papers date 1/1/1946 Throughout the war he was on a T.124 agreement which meant he was Merchant Navy but employed on Royal Navel vessels. He was always very bitter about this as he was on different conditions from the RN personnel. Can't remember what these differences were (think it was mostly to do with wages) and cannot ask him now as he passed away away about 25 years ago. He appeared to have enjoyed his time in the Navy as he was always telling stories about it, well the good times anyway. He was deaf in one ear and this came about by standing too close to one of the big guns.

I would like to get the voyage info so I can write up a doc and include numerous photos he left behind. This would be to pass on to his grand kids and great grand kids.

Any help in finding info would be much appreciated.
John


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## Hugh MacLean (Nov 18, 2005)

Hi John,

HMS MERSEY was a T124 base ship at Liverpool – this was not a sea-going draft and would handle the pay and account for T124 ratings. His time there would be for courses etc.

HMS BEGUM was a RULER Class Escort Aircraft Carrier obtained under US/UK Lend Lease Agreement. HMS Begum, British escort carrier, WW2

HMS TASAJERA was a Landing Ship Tank [LST] HMS Tasajera (F 125) of the Royal Navy - British Tank landing ship of the Tasajera class - Allied Warships of WWII - uboat.net

HMS BITER was an ARCHER-Class Escort Aircraft Carrier obtained under US/UK Lend Lease Arrangement. HMS Biter, British escort carrier, WW2

DUNNOTTER CASTLE was requisitioned on 28 August 1939 by the Admiralty for commission as an Armed Merchant Cruiser. Once the ship was commissioned, she was called HMS.





HMS Dunnottar Castle


A Record of The British & Commonwealth Shipping Company. The Companies, the ships and the people that manned them.




www.bandcstaffregister.com





I have attached some cards from the Fourth Register of Seamen denoting he was on T124 agreements at the time.
Regards
Hugh


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## John Gowers (Jul 18, 2018)

Hi Hugh,
Thanks for the info what exactly are the CR1 records cards were they similar to merchant navy articles or were the just employment records.

Rgds
John


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## John Gowers (Jul 18, 2018)

One story I can remember him telling was that the ship , not sure which one, was supplied with cold weather gear which included loads of woolly jumpers, however their next voyage was to the West coast of Africa so they rattled down the jumpers and made woollen rugs out of them to take home. Unfortunately a few weeks later there was a change of orders and they ended up in Murmansk with them all feeling a bit cold.


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## Hugh MacLean (Nov 18, 2005)

John Gowers said:


> Hi Hugh,
> Thanks for the info what exactly are the CR1 records cards were they similar to merchant navy articles or were the just employment records.


Hi John,
No, not really to do with the articles; CR1 cards were were completed in the Mercantile Marine Office [MMO] at the same time that a new discharge book was issued to the seaman or an old one checked.
CR2 cards recorded foreign voyages with one being kept and previous ones discarded. So basically they were employment cards. Not all of these cards survive and there are mistakes and omissions in them. Retrospectively, nothing is better than having completed discharge books as they are the most complete record of his service. The BT 390 pouch linked above by Roger would be a listing of his T124 service probably including some of the cards that I have listed but if you do not already have it, I would suggest it would be something you might wish to obtain at some point. Here is an example of some of the contents but I would stress there are some with very little too so you wont know until you look. The Fourth Service: Cataloguing merchant seamen in the Second World War - The National Archives blog
Regards
Hugh


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## Roger Griffiths (Feb 10, 2006)

Hello John, 
Hugh has covered it in a comprehensive fashion and it would be more than enough information for me. However if you wish to look deeper there are several sources in the National Archive, primarily Logbooks. Be aware that Logbooks of RN ships, below the catagory of Cruiser from 1941 have not survved. Therfore there are logbooks forr the period Oct 1939- Dec 40 for DUNNOTTAR CASTLE. Pluss other ADM records





Search results: "dunnottar castle" | The National Archives


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Nothing at all for TASAJERA. 
BITER 
There are 21 logs together with another 19 ADM records, such as damage reports, convoy reports, awards.





Search results: "biter" | The National Archives


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BEGUM





Search results: "begum" | The National Archives


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Fancy a couple of days in sunny Kew!

regards
Roger


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## John Gowers (Jul 18, 2018)

Hi guys thanks for the info looks like a visit to Kew might be on the cards for next year. I will try to get the info from the pouch. At least I know now the HMS Mersey is not a ship.
Also a visit to the Guildhall to find out about some of my own voyages when in the merchant navy in the 70s and 80s. Although I may try the National Museum of Scotland in Edinburgh first as they hold copies of Lloyds list for the dates I require.

Rgds 
John


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## backsplice (May 23, 2005)

Here are a couple of pics off the net one of the C of Chester (right vintage ) one of the City of Swansea may be a later one but perhaps not


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## Ron Stringer (Mar 15, 2005)

That City of Swansea was one of a batch of six ships of approximately 10,000 tons grt, built in 1946 to replace Ellerman tonnage lost in WW2. 

*ss City of Lucknow/GDSP*
Tonnage: 9,972 gross 181017 May 1946, Denny's, Dumbarton

*ss City of Carlisle/GBJK*
Tonnage: 9,913 gross 180816 1946, Cammell Laird, Birkenhead
* 
ss City of Durham/GBJM*
Tonnage: 10,025 gross 169434 March 1946, Cammell Laird, Birkenhead
* 
mv City of Khartoum/GBZC*
Tonnage: 9,955 gross 181014 January 1946, Barclay Curle, Clydeholm
* 
mv City of Poona/GBJT*
Tonnage: 9,962 gross 181028 July 1946, Swan, Hunter Neptune Yard
* 
mv City of Swansea/GBZT*
Tonnage: 9,959 gross 181016 April 1946, Barclay Curle, Clydeholm

The photo of the City of Chester is from an earlier generation.


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