# Northern Star troubles



## jeremy colborn (Apr 1, 2016)

New member,long interest in passenger ships. I would be interested to know if anyone can tell me if the Northern Star's engine room and kitchens [gally] were latterly in as poor a condition as you some times read .My parents were on her in June 1975, her last season. As far as I remember they had a good time . It is good to read the many interesting stories on this site. Thank you in hope.


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## A.D.FROST (Sep 1, 2008)

jeremy colborn said:


> New member,long interest in passenger ships. I would be interested to know if anyone can tell me if the Northern Star's engine room and kitchens [gally] were latterly in as poor a condition as you some times read .My parents were on her in June 1975, her last season. As far as I remember they had a good time . It is good to read the many interesting stories on this site. Thank you in hope.


Use the search in top right hand corner and put in northern star(Thumb)


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## jeremy colborn (Apr 1, 2016)

Thank you for information. I am doing this . Am hoping for a bit more detail.


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## fred henderson (Jun 13, 2005)

Firstly a warm welcome to SN Jeremy. 

There are a number of our Members who have first hand experience of Shaw Savill in the 1960s, but to an outsider it seems that Northern Star was a sad white elephant. She was delivered in 1962, seven years after Southern Cross and by then the economics of a two ship round the world passenger only service had been destroyed by the Boeing 707. So Shaw Savill tried to enter the cruise market, by purchasing Canadian Pacific's Empress of England and modifying her, but leaving the Southern Cross and Northern Star largely unchanged. It was a financial disaster. Cammell Laird conversion of the Empress into Ocean Monarch was seriously late and the cost skyrocketed, leading Shaw Savill to attempt to recover by slashing operating costs of the three ships, but this was thwarted by the great 1973 increase in oil prices. 

To add to Northern Star's problems she was fitted with the last generation Parsons steam turbines at a time when they were experiencing severe development troubles. Cunard's QE2 was also afflicted in her early years. Northern Star's machinery needed constant attention, but Shaw Savill deferred maintenance to cut operating costs.

It was a disaster. Southern Cross was laid up in 1971 before being sold in 1973, extensively rebuilt, and embarking on a long cruising career. There was no interest in the other two ships. In spite of Northern Star being only 12 years old her poor mechanical condition made her unattractive to other operators and she was sold for scrapping in 1974.


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## Pompeyfan (Aug 9, 2005)

Jeremy

Welcome to SN.

Please see a story I have just started in the Shaw Savill thread about my voyage on Northern Star, which will be in episodes. The first three here http://www.shipsnostalgia.com/showthread.php?goto=newpost&t=148738

Hopefully, my article will answer some of your questions because she had engine trouble during the entire trip in 1968, and galley not that great either when we visited it.


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## alaric (Feb 27, 2012)

Having just read Pompeyfan's excellent and authentic account of voyage 26 as a Northern Star passenger, it has spurred me to give my account of of the ship's early life from a crew perspective. I wrote these notes a few years ago, originally for the Shaw Savill Society newsletter, but with the continued interest in the ship's history I am giving them a further airing in SN.

Northern Star’s Early Life. An Engineer’s view. Part 1.

There have been a number of accounts published, telling of the problems that beset Northern Star during its early life, but they have been incomplete or contained inaccuracies.
This is the story of the early voyages from the horse’s mouth, the horse being me, Junior Engineer ‘B’ (the lowest of the low, there was no Junior Engineer ‘C’).
I served my Apprenticeship with Shaw Savill, the final year being at Swan Hunters, Wallsend. When my time was up, I moved half a mile up the Tyne to Vickers Armstrong’s Walker Yard and stood by Northern Star during the final few weeks of fitting out.
I was very impressed by the company’s pride and joy, but my opinions started to change when the first dock trials of the main engines took place. I just could not believe how noisy the double reduction gears were, in their fabricated steel boxes. The noise was like a machine gun with the trigger permanently held down. As an Apprentice, I had sailed in Persic, and was later to sail in Corinthic and Athenic, all with single reduction gears housed in very old fashioned, massive cast iron boxes. The main engines and gears were so quiet on these ships that it was difficult to tell by ear whether they were stopped , running slow or even full ahead. Not so with Northern Star, it wasn’t necessary to consult the tacho to know how fast the engines were running, after a little experience you just listened. However, I expected that after a bit of ‘running in’ the noise would reduce. I was wrong, it never did, but it wasn’t as bad as some motorships I experienced later.
On 19th June 1962 the main engines started turning for real and we clattered our way down the Tyne, to go to sea for the first time. Although I had spent over a year on Tyneside, I had never sailed into or from the river. So when we were at the breakwaters I went up to the bunkering ports to have a look. I was somewhat surprised to find that we were leaving the river stern first! I never did hear a proper explanation as to why, but I had been with Shaw Savill long enough to know that this wasn’t normal. At this time Northern Star was still owned and operated by Vickers, perhaps they always did this?
With hindsight, starting its sea going life going backwards can be seen as entirely appropriate. Somehow, Northern Star never did get it right. If it could go wrong, it invariably did.
After clearing the Tyne, we sailed via the Pentland Firth and round to the Clyde for trials. These took place without any great drama, the speed runs on the measured mile off the Isle of Arran. One of the ship’s modern innovations was a new type of log, known as SAL, which had a read out in the Engine Room. The Engineers clustered around the instrument were disappointed with the maximum speed achieved. I can’t remember exactly what speed was reached, but it didn’t exceed 22 knots by much of a margin. 
Another of the innovations was the new, compact design of boiler feed pumps by G&J Weirs of Cathcart. They had a single, central bearing lubricated by water tapped off the high pressure pump discharge.
Traditional turbo feed pumps had three, oil lubricated bearings. These pumps were very reliable, but big and expensive to make in comparison to the new design. After trials were completed, Northern Star anchored at Tail of the Bank, and Weirs sent a team down from Glasgow, and at least one of the new pumps was replaced. No problem! More about these pumps later.
On 10th July Northern Star sailed on schedule from Southampton on her maiden voyage. For the next year, the ship never managed to complete a whole voyage on schedule, in marked contrast to Southern Cross’s excellent timekeeping record. The staffing arrangements on Northern Star were based on her sister’s, and were on the generous side in view of the far higher level of automated control. I was mustered on the 4-8 watch, my area of responsibility being the Main Engine Room, shared with 2 other Junior Engineers on the other watches. Three 5th Engineers looked after the Alternator Room, three 3rd Engineers the Boiler Room and three Refrig. Engineers the Refrigeration and Air Conditioning Plant, all
headed by a 2nd Engineer on each watch. ‘Doc’ Lovett was Senior 2nd. Engineer on my 4 to 8 watch. The Chief Engineer was Mr. Brew, who had sailed for many years in that capacity on Dominion Monarch, and he was supported by the Staff Chief, Jack Warden. There were 4 or 5 Electricians on daywork, and last, but not least our two Apprentices. One being Malcolm Vincent, who I’m very pleased to note has just been elected President of The Institute of Marine Engineering, Science and Technology. (IMarEST).
All went well for a week or so, until two days out from Las Palmas on the afternoon watch. 
Until this time we had been running with one oil cooler per engine, but as we headed south, the sea water temperature was gradually increasing, and early in the watch I brought the second coolers for each engine on line to maintain normal oil temperatures. A little later, I was walking along between the two engines when a shower of sparks, just like an oxy-acetylene cutting torch, suddenly shot out of the forward end of the starboard High Pressure Turbine. There were probably some strange noises being generated as well, but they couldn’t be heard over the Gearbox racket. Doc Lovett was standing just a few paces away at the Engine Control panel, enjoying his afternoon mug of tea, when he was rudely interrupted by my agitated shouting and pointing. Doc had a stutter, normally quite minor, but what he was seeing caused the longest “fffffffffffffff----------------ell” he ever uttered! While still only part way through his expletive, Doc grabbed the telegraph and rang ‘Stop’ and we both closed the main ahead steam valve as fast as possible. We also slowed the port engine down to stop the starboard engine rotating. 
This done, the Engine Room soon filled with all the Senior Engineers on board, Jack Warden, Mr. Brew, Jack Foreman from Parsons, the engine makers and Shaw Savill’s Senior Engineer Superintendent, Mr. George Jackson. The starboard HP thrust bearing was quickly opened up, to discover that the white metal lining of the pads had virtually vanished, allowing the turbine rotor to move, causing the rotor blades to contact the fixed blades. As soon as what had happened had been established, attention turned to why. Mr. Brew quickly came to the conclusion that Junior Engineer ‘B’ was the cause, by getting air into the oil system when bringing the second cooler into use. I knew this was not the case, but I know others also had their doubts. However there was much work to be done, and this focused everyone’s attention away from me and onto the job. A job that nobody on board had ever done before, and has only been done at sea on very rare occasions.
All the Engineers and Engine Room crew worked 6 hours on and 6 off, to disconnect and isolate the HP turbine and put main steam directly to the LP turbine. My particular job was to blank off all the HP turbine drains, which meant that everyone else was working at various levels above me, and the first thing they all did was to strip lagging from the turbine and pipework. Most of this landed on me, to the extent that I looked like a snowman. After 24 hours of very hard and hot work the starboard engine was restarted and gradually worked up to its reduced maximum power. We soon resumed normal watches and started to get the Engine Room shipshape again.
Two days later, shortly before 0400 I was called for my watch, with`
the news that the port engine had just been stopped. HP Thrust Bearing failure, a carbon copy of the starboard problem. I was probably the only person on board who wasn’t entirely dismayed with the news, at least it pointed to a cause other than Junior Engineer B’s incompetence. We reverted to the 6 hour watch routine, and having gained a bit of experience on how to do the job, we had the port engine turning again in about 18 hours. I think we all did the same jobs as first time, so I got coated with asbestos lagging and became a snowman again. The ship managed a creditable 16 knots running on just the LP Turbine half engines, and so we eventually arrived at Cape Town where the HP turbine rotors were lifted and placed in packing cases, although they stayed on board until arrival at Fremantle. 
Here, the rotors were put ashore and flown on ahead to Cockatoo Dockyard, Sydney.
Cockatoo resurfaced the thrust bearing faces and dressed up the damaged blading and gland seals. The Dockyard had done the best possible job, but the rotors looked decidedly second hand when they were returned to the turbine casings. I can’t remember if the original thrust pads were re-lined or whether new units were supplied by Parsons, either way, the same spec. white metal was used again.
The theory as to why the failures had occurred had now moved entirely away from Junior Engineer B’s misdeeds, and now centred on the Thrust Block mounting design. Cockatoo made alterations, to a revised Parson’s design which included replacing the rigid oil pipes with flexible hoses. After several days’ work, everything was boxed up, tested and the voyage to New Zealand continued, now back up to normal speed.
The engines behaved themselves until Northern Star was homeward bound, between Tahiti and Panama. It was a case of deja vu. 
The starboard thrust bearing failed again, but this time the job only took 12 hours, and as soon as it was completed and the engine running again, the port engine was stopped and the thrust pads removed before total failure occurred. This proved to be the key in determining the real cause of the troubles. Another 12 hours frantic work followed, during which I became a snowman for the fourth time, and we were back on our trusty two half engines. I totted up the running hours from the Engine Room log, and found that the time from new to the first failures was almost identical to that between the Sydney rebuild and the second round failures. Hardly a coincidence. And so we finally returned to Southampton, 10 days late. Probably the most troublesome maiden voyage by a major passenger liner since Titanic! 


We were lucky that the ship never actually stopped at sea, and the ship’s Engineers can be proud of isolating a main engine turbine four times in a single voyage. It is fairly certain that this had never happened before, and with the few remaining steam ships left at sea today, it is certainly a record that will never be equalled. 
While the ship had been making its way home at 16 knots, the salvaged thrust pads were flown home and subjected to exhaustive tests and investigations. The primary cause of the failures was finally tracked down, and proved to be a chemical reaction that deposited a hard carbonised iron coating onto the thrust disc. This scored the machined steel face of the disc, which was an integral part of the turbine rotor. Eventually the soft white metal of the pads was ground away, allowing the turbine shaft to move forward by the thickness of the missing white metal. Builder’s dirt in the oil system was also thought to be a contributing factor. Certainly, a lot of rubbish was removed from the oil filters in the early days. I did not learn some of these detailed reasons until two years or so later when I received a copy of the paper that George Jackson presented to The Institute of Marine Engineers (now IMarEST) in Mark Lane. Surprisingly, no previous ship had been built and run with the combination of the particular steel for the turbine rotor and white metal for the thrust pads, together with the grade of oil to lubricate the turbine bearings and gearing. All three elements were widely used in many naval and merchant ship applications, but never together in combination.
The cure proved to be very straightforward. Before setting off on V2, the original “Extreme Pressure” grade oil, which was usually only used on high powered naval ships, was removed, the system cleaned and flushed and refilled by a fresh charge of straight mineral oil, without the EP additives. Parsons did extensive work to the rotors and blading, restoring them to near new condition.
I seem to remember that the grade of white metal was also changed. Certainly the pads themselves were new, and where supported by a hydraulic self aligning arrangement, and every pad incorporated a thermocouple, to continually monitor and record operating temperatures.
For the next 3 voyages at least, the Thrust Bearings were opened up regularly for inspection.
As far as I know, no other problems with the Thrust Bearings were experienced for the remainder of Northern Star’s short but eventful life.
To be continued


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## stoker (Jul 18, 2005)

*Northern Star*

Thanks Aleric, can't wait for part 2.


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## jeremy colborn (Apr 1, 2016)

Thanks for all replies . I could never understand why the money wasn't spent on N.S . and S.X. INSTEAD of buying Empress of England . I wonder if the empress had problems with c.p. lines. Thanks again , jeremy


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## alaric (Feb 27, 2012)

stoker said:


> Thanks Aleric, can't wait for part 2.


In spite of getting my (ships) name wrong Stoker, this is for you, although extracts have appeared before on SN.

Northern Star’s Early Life. An Engineer’s view. Part 2.

While the concept and overall design of Southern Cross had been revolutionary, the machinery specification and design were conservative, to limit the overall risks being taken. This was a wise strategy, as the ship proved to be very reliable in service and was still going strong when finally scrapped in 2003.
With the overall principal proven to be correct, the company was more adventurous with the specification of Northern Star’s machinery. With hindsight, it can be seen that in some respects they were too adventurous.

One of the innovations was the new, compact design of boiler feed pumps by G&J Weirs of Cathcart. They had a single, central bearing lubricated by water tapped off the high pressure pump discharge.
Traditional turbo feed pumps had three, oil lubricated bearings. These traditional pumps were very reliable, but big and expensive to make in comparison to the new design. I believe that Northern Star was the first ship to rely entirely on the new pumps. With the space available, there was simply no space for traditional pumps, even if it would have been preferred. There were two main pumps, only one of which was required for full power, plus a smaller Harbour Pump, and this would probably have had capacity to steam the ship at 15 knots on its own. The risk of relying totally on the new pumps was probably considered to be small and acceptable. After Clyde trials, Northern Star anchored at Tail of the Bank, and Weirs sent a team on board, and at least one of the pumps was replaced, as mentioned in part1.

The pumps proved to be problematic to start. Once they were up and running they were OK, but if run up to speed too fast, it was liable to seize because the bearing was running too fast before a proper water lubricating film was established. On the other hand, if it was run up to speed too slowly, it was liable to seize because the bearing was running for too long before a proper water lubricating film was established. The window between what was too fast and too slow was very small, and could only be determined by “feel”. Not surprisingly, a number of pump seizures had occurred, some on V1, but these had occurred singularly, so were not critical to the overall operation of the ship. This all changed outward bound on V2 at Cape Town.

At ports where the ship stayed at the berth only 12 hours or less, a main boiler was maintained under steam and the turbo alternators were kept on load for electric power. At Cape Town, a 24hr port, it was usual for the diesel generators to be run for electric power, with the main boilers and steam systems totally shut down. Your writer was still the Junior Engineer on Doc Lovatt’s 4 to 8 watch, so it fell to me to run up and warm through the machinery for the morning departure. All was going well until I attempted to start the Harbour Pump. I think I tried the fast start, but it was too fast and the pump seized up. Doc was not impressed when I told him, so personally took over the job of getting a main pump running. He tried the slow approach, but was too slow, resulting in two of our three pumps now being u/s. Staff Chief Jack Warden was now called from his bed. I can’t now be sure what approach he tried, and he had probably not ever personally started one of these pumps before, so we soon had a hat trick of dud pumps.
Sailing had to be put back 24 hours. All the Engineers worked 6 on 6 off watches to provide the manpower to strip and repair the three pumps. In the limited space available around the pumps we were virtually working on top of each other, and I was mortified when I hit Jack Warden a mighty blow on his hand with my large hammer. I have always held Jack in the highest regard, having first sailed with him as an Apprentice on Alaric on his first trip as Chief. I think he forgave me, but he never let me forget what pain I had inflicted. Every time we subsequently met he reminded me of how dangerous I was with a big hammer! Indeed, it was mentioned at our very last meeting, at the Southampton Reunion about 10 years ago. Sorry, Jack.
I can’t be sure who was brave enough to start the feed pumps after the repairs, it wasn’t me. The problem was overcome, I think at the end of V2 by simply fitting a small electrically powered pump to provide lubricating water during the start up phase. We live and learn.

Weirs also supplied another significant piece, of what at the time was cutting edge technology. This was a 20 stage Flash Evaporator for making fresh water from the sea. In spite of being a prototype, this equipment really did work well, the water it produced was virtually pure and of the highest quality, and it made 500 tons/day of the stuff. It was so pure that it was virtually tasteless.
In 1962 it is was the largest capacity marine evaporator ever produced, and would still be regarded as big today, although I believe large modern fresh water generators are now of the reverse osmosis type rather than evaporators.
The evaporator was not brought into use until we were well clear of the coast, and it took quite some time to start up and produce good water, but when it settled down, there was no stopping it. There was virtually no control over how much water was produced, it was either the full 500tons/day or nothing! This was well in excess of the quantity normally used for ballast and hotel services, and even in the hottest weather it almost kept pace with demand. Usually, during the 4 to 8 morning watch, all the water tanks were filled, so the evaporator output was dumped onto the engine room tank tops and bilges until demand for water picked up again at breakfast time. On virtually every other steam ship of the time, the most precious substance (apart from beer of course) was good quality feed water for the boilers, and Northern Star used the highest quality water to keep the bilges clean. No ship afloat could compete with that! 

The Flash Evaporator was one of the success stories of the advanced machinery, and it gave little trouble during the first year of operation, although I do remember on V2 or V3 there was an occasion when due to some malfunction, the shell and tube heater scaled up and had to be cleared out manually.
In fact, had it been known in advance how well the evaporator performed, the boilers would probably have been fitted with steam soot blowers instead of the compressed air units actually installed.
In my experience, partly because of the higher pressures used, steam soot blowers seem to be more effective than air units. The big disadvantage is the quantity of steam, and hence boiler make-up they need. 
On Northern Star, the one problem never experienced was a shortage of feed water. It is ironic that the Boiler troubles which I believe were experienced throughout the life of the ship, could perhaps have been prevented or at least reduced if the ship had been equipped with steam soot blowers.

The publicity given to the Thrust Bearing failures on V1 had the effect of drawing attention away from problems with the Boilers. These started very early on. Shortly after leaving Southampton on V2, a hole developed in one of the superheater tubes. It was probably just an isolated material defect, not linked to subsequent superheater problems. However, it stays in my mind because of the temporary fix carried out at Las Palmas. Doc Lovatt was anxious to get on with the job of plugging off the defective tube in the short time available in port. One of the burners was removed and a couple of timber planks were thrown into the combustion chamber, to give some degree of insulation from the heat still being given off by the furnace floor. 
Doc was just in the act of climbing into the furnace when the timbers burst into flames! He made a swift exit and waited a couple of hours before going back in to finish the job. Little consideration was given to personal health and safety in 1962, but this incident illustrates the dedication and effort the Engineering Staff put into their ships. Was this appreciated in Leadenhall Street? I doubt it. “Bloody Engineers made the ship late again.”
The main problem that affected the Boilers, at least during the first 4 voyages, but probably for the ship’s entire life, was the build up of clinker on and around the superheater tubes. The correct engineering term for this condition is “****ging,” and Northern Star had **** in spades! 
The main cause was a design fault with the Babcock Boilers. The superheater tubes were pitched too close to each other, allowing the **** to build up on the tubes and then bridge the small gap across to the adjacent tubes. The whole superheater became blocked which resulted in a low superheat temperature, eventually we operated at about 800F instead of the design 900F. This was a high figure for a marine boiler of the time, the design temperature on Southern Cross was only 800F. Ironically, had the design temperature been 800F, the tubes could have been more widely spaced and the bridging and blocking would not have occurred to the extent it did. Had the boilers also been fitted with steam instead of air blowers, the whole installation would probably have operated with a lot less trouble. 
Could the ship perhaps have enjoyed as long a life as her illustrious sister? Who can tell, but it is a great shame that Northern Star was scrapped as early as 1975. Essentially a straightforward and well thought out development from Southern Cross, it was indeed unlucky that a few minor design details blighted the operation and reputation of Northern Star. It would be interesting to hear about the machinery problems that persisted after the first four voyages.
It was not just the machinery that caused problems in Northern Star’s first year. Remember, the ship started its seagoing life by leaving the Tyne stern first. But it ended the first year by making a very fast homeward passage on V4. This was because the ship spent an extra 2 days at Wellington having temporary repairs made to a long gash (50ft?) in the side plating just above the water line. The gash was caused while berthing during a gale. Why was it that the company usually did not use tugs to help berthing in Windy Wellington?


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## jeremy colborn (Apr 1, 2016)

Thank you for taking the time to post this . It should be in a book rather than some of the badly researched stuff that sometimes makes it into print.


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## jeremy colborn (Apr 1, 2016)

Good morning everyone, re the interesting post by Alaric. A good account of Northern Star leaving the Tyne is in Alan Mitchell's book Splendid Sisters. You can get a second hand copy from marine book shops or Amazon. For me a great read. Hope this is of interest.


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## Brian Brown (Nov 18, 2007)

*Northern Star Troubles*



fred henderson said:


> Firstly a warm welcome to SN Jeremy.
> 
> There are a number of our Members who have first hand experience of Shaw Savill in the 1960s, but to an outsider it seems that Northern Star was a sad white elephant. She was delivered in 1962, seven years after Southern Cross and by then the economics of a two ship round the world passenger only service had been destroyed by the Boeing 707. So Shaw Savill tried to enter the cruise market, by purchasing Canadian Pacific's Empress of England and modifying her, but leaving the Southern Cross and Northern Star largely unchanged. It was a financial disaster. Cammell Laird conversion of the Empress into Ocean Monarch was seriously late and the cost skyrocketed, leading Shaw Savill to attempt to recover by slashing operating costs of the three ships, but this was thwarted by the great 1973 increase in oil prices.
> 
> ...


According to my Discharge Book NS did a trans Tasman crossing between23.01.75 and27.01.75
Regards 
Brian Brown


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## chadburn (Jun 2, 2008)

Your contributions Alaric certainly "put to bed" the comments made by some that a Shipboard Turbine Engineering was a Pumbers job.
When I was doing N.S. in the R.N. I served on the new Y100 Plant which gave a few headaches for us.


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## jeremy colborn (Apr 1, 2016)

*more on northern star*

My wife and I cruised with p and o a few times in the early 1970s and the standard was good. when my parents wanted to try cruising I said try shaw savill .when I saw them off at Southampton it was plain N. Star was not as well looked after as the Pand O ships. They did seem to have a good time though . this was 1975 N Star's last year.Mom and dad did not go on another cruise . perhaps they were saying nice things for my sake. I hope they liked it . I should have recommended P and O but at the time did not know shaw savill were not the line they used to be. Would be interested to hear from others who sailed Shaw S that last year. Kind regards Jeremy


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## Duncan112 (Dec 28, 2006)

Thanks Alaric, those who studied at South Shields may remember Geoff (R G ) Ralph, he was one of the engine builders reps on the maiden voyage and told us the same story - attempt to apportion blame before the fault was diagnosed being a running theme.


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## alaric (Feb 27, 2012)

Duncan112 said:


> Thanks Alaric, those who studied at South Shields may remember Geoff (R G ) Ralph, he was one of the engine builders reps on the maiden voyage and told us the same story - attempt to apportion blame before the fault was diagnosed being a running theme.


Thank you Duncan. To the best of my knowledge and memory the only representative from Parsons Marine on board at the time of the first failures was Jack Foreman, who was I think their Fitting Out Manager.
A knowledgeable, patient and kind man who made time to answer what were probably silly questions from lowly Junior Engineers.
Geoff Ralph may have flown out to South Africa, Australia or NZ but I don't recall him, but may have thought he was from Cockatoo Dockyard rather than Parsons.


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