# SeaTrains - Railway Rolling Stock Cargo into Vietnam in 1963-1971



## Janez (Aug 2, 2021)

Greetings from Saigon,

Working on a website dedicated to the history of railways in Vietnam and are looking for photographs or descriptions or maybe even cargo lists (just dreaming) for USAID sponsored railway rolling stock that was brought into Vietnam (Saigon port & Cam Ranh port) during 1963-71 on several Seatrain (and other) voyages.

All together about 200 railcars and 50 locomotives.

Trying to figure out where were the railcars (narrow gauge) actually made (Japan,as some Army do***ents suggest ?)

So far found photos:
1970/71
Railroad locomotives off-loaded at Newport

1967
Unloading SeaTrain New Jersey in Cam Ranh Bay
Unloading Seatrain Florida, Saigon port , 8-1967

Earlier probably non-Seatrain vessels - could anybody identify them ?

1963
Aircraft carrier

__
https://flic.kr/p/2jtaGy5

SS President xxxxx

__
https://flic.kr/p/2jtduSw


Thanks for leads , infos & links

Railways and Tramways of Việt Nam


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## kewl dude (Jun 1, 2008)

Janez said:


> Greetings from Saigon,
> 
> Working on a website dedicated to the history of railways in Vietnam and are looking for photographs or descriptions or maybe even cargo lists (just dreaming) for USAID sponsored railway rolling stock that was brought into Vietnam (Saigon port & Cam Ranh port) during 1963-71 on several Seatrain (and other) voyages.
> 
> ...





Janez said:


> Greetings from Saigon,
> 
> Working on a website dedicated to the history of railways in Vietnam and are looking for photographs or descriptions or maybe even cargo lists (just dreaming) for USAID sponsored railway rolling stock that was brought into Vietnam (Saigon port & Cam Ranh port) during 1963-71 on several Seatrain (and other) voyages.
> 
> ...


1971 I made two round trips as 1 A/E on Seatrain Maine San Francisco to 'Nam the first May 5 to July 15, the second July 30 to November 6th with two weeks of Conus Coastal in between. The first voyage we loaded a pair of narrow gauge steam locomotives and tenders in Kaohsiung, Taiwan, delivered to barges at Newport - upriver from Saigon.


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## Janez (Aug 2, 2021)

geez dude,

Steam in 71 ?
They had so many abandoned (ie not fixed) sitting around the stations..
Great tip, thanks !
It will just make my life more complicated !
Btw I am trying to untangle the mess not to sink deeper into another mystery.

Pls don't tell me that you didn't take a photo or ten !!!

But since we are talking about unloading steam locos in Saigon, I would love to see the cargo list or get ports of call for MM Bir Hakeim on her maiden voyage from couple of years earlier - there were 8 locos apparently, but they don't really fit into the loco roster from those times.

le cargo BIR-HAKEIM des Messageries Maritimes
http://www.messageries-maritimes.org/bir-hakeim16-1.jpg
http://www.messageries-maritimes.org/bir-hakeim15-1.jpg
http://www.messageries-maritimes.org/bir-hakeim14-1.jpg
http://www.messageries-maritimes.org/bir-hakeim-1.jpg


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## DHendrickson (Dec 29, 2013)

With regards to the photos attached to your original post, the aircraft carrier looks to be either USNS Card or USNS Core. The 'President ship" is the President Adams, one of American President Lines' four Deluxe Mariners used on their Round the World service from circa 1956 to1974. The Seatrain in the 1967 photos link is Seatrain Florida, a sister of Seatrain Maine. Several interesting photos of the Main and Spar Decks there, by the way. The one in the 1970-71 photo link is a sister of the Seatrains Florida/Maine - possibly Seatrain Washington. (The seven Seatrain T2 tanker conversions were the Seatrains Maryland, Carolina, Puerto Rico, Florida, Washington, Maine, and Ohio.)
I was at Da Nang in 1966-67 and saw 7 Seatrain Lines ships there including 5 of the Seatrain Puerto Rico class ships. None, however, was carrying railroad rolling stock. Rather, they were loaded with vehicles, trailers, tanks and the like.
It might be worth your while to do an internet search for Sealift Magazine which was published for many years by the Military Sea Transportation Service/Military Sealift Command. The issues published during the Vietnam War years had many articles about the Vietnam Sealift.
Hope this is of interest.
David


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## Janez (Aug 2, 2021)

David,

Thanks a lot for the detailed explanation and great tip.
Yeah, Seatrain Florida 1967 photos are the best so far.
Made by a railway guy.
Btw why didn't sailors take more photos of the action on board ?
I mean one doesn't load & carry locos across the ocean everyday.

p.s.
Re."The one in the 1970-71 photo link is a sister of the Seatrains Florida/Maine - possibly Seatrain Washington."

But could it be Maine ?

Janez


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## DHendrickson (Dec 29, 2013)

Janez:
Glad the earlier response was of interest. A little more on the Seatrain Puerto Rico class ships which hopefully does not come under the category of too much irrelevant information. Some years back I wrote an article about Seatrains and learned a lot about them in the process of researching it. Although at a casual glance they looked as alike as peas in a pod, there were several subtle differences in the superstructures and stacks of the Seatrain Puerto Rico class ships. For example, some had round wheelhouse windows and some had square wheelhouse windows. Off the top of my head the ships converted at Baltimore (Washington, Maine, Ohio) had the square wheelhouse windows and that could indeed be the Seatrain Maine.The four converted at Newport News (Puerto Rico, Carolina, Florida, and Maryland) had round wheelhouse windows as best I can recall. 
It's rather sad that more mariners do not take photos of the ships they sail in. Why don't they? Can't answer that one, alas. 
David


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## Janez (Aug 2, 2021)

Cool.

Tks


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## Janez (Aug 2, 2021)

David,

Been checking on Card & Core and came across the Card's morning after photo from May 2, 1964 in Saigon that looks very similar to the photo from earlier with a locomotive in front.

It is assumed that the locomotive was a part of the inbound cargo from the ship behind.

Could it be the same ship ? Photos are not fantastic, but looks pretty much the same.
Unfortunately the opposite bank is hidden behind containers and the photo is taken from a lower angle.

Would appreciate your opinion.

Janez


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## DHendrickson (Dec 29, 2013)

Janez:
I think you are correct. It certainly looks like the USNS Card at the same location.


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## Janez (Aug 2, 2021)

David

Maybe both taken by Charles J. Skiff, USN
Would anybody know him ?

Still no record of the cargo
another photo, low-res again description says 1964
those could be locos & railcars on the deck

btw
SS President Adams became USNS Geiger before VN war. Didnt they repaint the life boats ?


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## DHendrickson (Dec 29, 2013)

Janez:
With regards to Charles Skiff, assuming he was in fact a U.S. Navy Photographer's Mate, then theoretically at least the USN might have custody of the photos/negatives he took as a Navy photographer. An inquiry to the U.S. Navy Historical and Heritage Command might turn up something, if not about him, then possibly more information about the photo(s) he took of USNS Card at Saigon.
In the photo of the Card at Saigon in 1964 it's hard to tell. They could be locos. Could also be buses or trucks.
The President Adams in the photo above is not the ship that became USNS Geiger. The USNS Geiger was launched with President Adams painted on the hull but was taken over by the Navy and completed as a trooper and renamed USNS Geiger. The Geiger sailed until the end of the Vietnam War and was eventually used briefly as a Training Ship by the Massachusetts Maritime Academy. It suffered a fire in the engineering spaces and was eventually scrapped in 1986. The President Adams in the picture above was a Mariner Class freighter built as Palmetto Mariner in 1952 and rebuilt by APL in 1955-56 for its Round the World Service and renamed President Adams. Apart from the names there is no resemblance between the Geiger and President Adams. The freighter President Adams and sisters Presidents Coolidge, Jackson, and Hayes had extraordinarily luxurious passenger accommodations that rivaled those of many contemporary passenger ships.The President Adams (ex Palmetto Mariner) was scrapped in 1974. As an aside. off the top of my head APL had at least 6 ships named President Adams - a 502 class passenger cargo liner built in the early 1920s, a C3 class passenger cargo liner built in 1941 that like the Geiger never sailed for the company, the President Adams/USNS Geiger, the Mariner freighter alluded to above, and after that a former American Mail Line freighter the original name of which does not spring to mind which was renamed President Adams, and last a large (for those days) containership built in 1988 or thereabouts. This may also come under the heading of too much information.
A thought came to mind with regard to the cargo carried by the USNS Card on that particular and other voyages. The U.S. National Archives may have custody of the Card's deck logs and if they have it the log for that particular voyage might have at least some details of the ship's cargo. I'm not sure how deeply you care to go into the subject, but an inquiry to NARA asking for a copy of the log for that voyage (or specific dates from the voyage) might be worth a try. A caveat: having copies of logs made can be expensive depending on the number of pages that are copied.
David


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## Janez (Aug 2, 2021)

Thanks David.
It did puzzle me why would one need such a cruiser for bunch of diesels.
Wasn't aware that there was a shortage of presidents' names.

Thanks for the tips !


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## DHendrickson (Dec 29, 2013)

You're more than welcome.
As for the APL names, some Presidents' names seem to have been more popular than others and APL did have a tendency to rename new ships after previous ships as in the case of Presidents Adams. I have wondered, though, why President Washington was used so seldom as that would seem to have been a very obvious name to use and reuse. 
David


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## Janez (Aug 2, 2021)

sorry dude @ #2  ·  30 d ago  ,

Not even the book writer of Taiwanese railways history from 60/70s knows anything about two steam locs sent to Vietnam.

The only two locs so far is a pair of GE U8b diesels on what could be Seatrain Maine in Newport in 1971.

Railroad locomotives off-loaded at Newport


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## Janez (Aug 2, 2021)

David,

Have managed to get HiRes from the kind folks at www.vietnam.ttu.edu and there are just trailers & trucks on the deck of the inbound USNS Cork in 1964.


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## DHendrickson (Dec 29, 2013)

Janez:
Interesting to be able to resolve one question. 
David


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