# New ABB Ice Breaking Tankers



## JoK (Nov 12, 2006)

Anyone seen the Mastera in the Baltic :
http://www.abb.com/cawp/seitp161/335593607ab27354c1256fee001c4463.aspx

I was watching the series "Super Ships" and they featured her. It is quite an engineering marvel, though after going to the Arctic in the heavy breakers, I honestly wonder how the azipod would do in multi-year blue ice conditions.


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## Bearsie (Nov 11, 2006)

I wonder too, although I don't recall the Finns designing stuff that doesn't work. At least not when it comes to ice breaking


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## JoK (Nov 12, 2006)

The azipod is at the icebreaking bow and is designed to pull the ship through ice. The wash of the propeller goes down the hull to keep the ice from sticking to it.

They can turn the azipod to help break up the ice.

I certainly didn't mean to imply that the Finns don't build good icebreakers. (EEK) 
It is just so different from traditional ships that you have to go hmmmm


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## pilot (Jan 8, 2006)

The Finns have been building icebreaking tankers for a few years now. 
Neste Oil Corporation's tankers used be frequent callers on The Tetney Monobuoy. 
Rgds.


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## Bearsie (Nov 11, 2006)

pilot said:


> The Finns have been building icebreaking tankers for a few years now.
> Neste Oil Corporation's tankers used be frequent callers on The Tetney Monobuoy.
> Rgds.


Inoticed that the link JoK gave, while ABB is an international corporation all
activities like engineering and design go back to Finland if its ice related.
Be that Ice- breaking -going, -strengthened, and so on.
Seems that over the years they have become the supplier of choice for anyone wanting to play in the ice.

So I am sure they know what they are doing, but that "thing" does look odd, probably because we aren't used to it, time will tell


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## Frank P (Mar 13, 2005)

If you believe all the stories that are in the news about Climate Change and Global Warming, you would have to be an optimist to invest any money in Ice Breaking ships.

Cheers Frank


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## Bearsie (Nov 11, 2006)

Frank P said:


> If you believe all the stories that are in the news about Climate Change and Global Warming, you would have to be an optimist to invest any money in Ice Breaking ships.
> 
> Cheers Frank


Darn it Frank! you dashed my hopes of a quick profit!
I just invested all my funds into stock of a ice going reefer company to haul
oranges from Novaya Zemla to Spain ... 
I was told Novaya Zemla would be the Florida of the new millenium ...(EEK)


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## Derek Roger (Feb 19, 2005)

Interesting Jok but I doubt these woulkd be much use in Muti year ice ridges of 30 to 40 ft thick .
Baltic is much less severe than the Arctic . 

In the picure we see the pods are not milling the ice ? although there is referance to ice ridges . 
Derek


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## Bearsie (Nov 11, 2006)

Derek Roger said:


> Interesting Jok but I doubt these woulkd be much use in Muti year ice ridges of 30 to 40 ft thick .
> Baltic is much less severe than the Arctic .
> 
> In the picure we see the pods are not milling the ice ? although there is referance to ice ridges .
> Derek


There may be some ridges in the Baltic, but my impression was that they were built for service up north in the white sea?
Murmansk and east?
May have to dig around a bit more...


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## Derek Roger (Feb 19, 2005)

Good Good ! Look forward to anything you find .
Derek


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## Bearsie (Nov 11, 2006)

Derek Roger said:


> Good Good ! Look forward to anything you find .
> Derek


There you go Derek, that's the customer (or one of them)

Sevmorneftegaz, CJSC, Development of oil and gas fields on Russia’s Arctic continental shelf 
Development of oil and gas fields on Russia’s Arctic continental shelf. Guaranteed export supply of crude oil transported in Arctic conditions on all- year-round basis. Development of remote gas-condensate fields (up to 600 kilometres offshore). Design, construction and operation of LNG plants with sea terminal. LNG shipment and marketing.


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## Bearsie (Nov 11, 2006)

Finns seem to think that Azipod drive is the future for all Icebreakers.

Quote:
The ice tests dispelled my final remnants
of disbelief. I have never seen any
icebreaker traverse such a huge ridged
ice field as quickly and efficiently as
Botnica did. Though she had to reverse
into the ice field to penetrate it, progress
was really fast and efficient. In smooth fields and slush fields, both forwards and
backwards, the Azipod system performed
reliably and efficiently. I would be very
surprised if future iceworthy vessels built
in Finland were fitted with any propulsion
system other than the ABB Azipod.
At sea, March 21, 1999
Atso Uusiaho, Master MSV Botnica


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## Derek Roger (Feb 19, 2005)

Thanks Bearsie ; Very interesting . I shall have to " Dream On This " Derek


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## jimmys (Jan 5, 2007)

I used to trade in conventional tankers 40000t up to Ventspils which was the major Baltic Russian port and the HQ of their Baltic fleet. Now Latvia.
It was advertised as ice free. You can take it from me that is a joke.
The big Ruski breakers used to break for you 24 hours per day. You could hear them clattering and banging constantly. I think some of them were nuclear. We never went aboard to see.
Its a place to keep away from in the winter and anybody that goes there on any ship is welcome to it.
I have sailed with electric drive but the motors were in the engine room along with the alternators. The shafts were conventional. In the azipod you need drydock to repair the pod. I can write a book about electric motor problems and so can every marine engineer.
The main problem in the Baltic is that they cannot get a VLCC up there with all this oil and the use of small ships means multiple breaking for small ships to fill the VLCC outside.

best regards
jimmys


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## Derek Roger (Feb 19, 2005)

Is the ice Mutli Year Ice and how thick are the ice ridges ??? Derek


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## jimmys (Jan 5, 2007)

Hi Derek

It is clear in the summer and in the winter the Russian breakers were at it continually so it never ridged.
It was always kept clear as it was the major Russian outlet to the Baltic.
That was over 20 years ago, but I dont think things climate wise will have changed much.
As far as I was led to believe that was the limit north for a conventional tanker in the Baltic.

best regards
jimmys


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## Bearsie (Nov 11, 2006)

Hi JimmyS. too bad you don't like the Baltic in the winter 
Some "coasties" like me, enjoyed it immensely.
The term: "ice free" is salesman talk for: with the right ship you can get there! As opposed to: its so thick you can't get there no matter how stubborn you are. It also used to mean that in a normal winter (whatever that is) a ice strengthened ship can get there without a breaker,which at times is another rather optimistic assessment!
The coaster Hein von Bargen (among many others in the baltic trade)
had iceclass and we spent every winter in the baltic, used to change to a forged steel propeller with lower pitch in november/december for the season.
Most other coasters had to stay out and try to make a living in the northsea at lower rates or go home. Not all Baltic ports are open in the winter time.
I recall one time we "rescued" a "big" tanker outside of Stockholm that was stuck in the ice. The darn thing was sooo wide we had to constantly double up on our track or he'd get stuck again... The phone lines went red hot "cutting a deal". ETA for a proper swedish ice breaker was 3 to 4 days, they were all busy somewhere, since this was a winter where all the "icefree" places were covered in it.
HvB made a good penny that winter, even (absolutely, positively icefree) Kiel was totally iced over!

Derek, 
no multi year ice, but ridges from wind and such yes up north it gets rather thick, it is probably somewhat comparable to the Great Lakes ice wise.


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## Bearsie (Nov 11, 2006)

Here a link to the Finnish winter traffic control with all sorts of goodies:

http://www.fma.fi/e/functions/winter_navigation/

http://www.fimr.fi/stc/itamerinyt/attachments/jaakartta.pdf

Derek, you might like the ice chart info, english option is included,
hard to read for me...

Actually I was trying to find an article on test runs for the Otso, they were talking meters of ice not centimeters, alas couldn't find it again...


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## Derek Roger (Feb 19, 2005)

Got your PM but couldnt open the link unfortunatly . Im waiting for Jok to come back with some comments re multiyear blue ice and ridges . 

I know that Kigoriak could proceed easily in 2 or 3 meters of first year ice at about 5 knots . I was on the vessel when she went north and have a movie taken which clearly shows the ice thickness . In multi year ice and ridges of about 7 meters she had to work hard to make a "lead " ( crack ) to get through . I understood that at a later time she had brocken a ridge measured at 10 meters plus . The Azipods would in my view " wipe out " against such ridges . 
Kigoriak had a spoon bow and an ice reamer which meant that the passage through the ice was 1 meter wider than the remainder of the hull therefore there was no ice friction down the side of the hull . It made backing up easier as the hull was water lubricated . Kigoriak also had a system of Hull lubrication provided by large axial flow pumps having about 400 KW capacity ( I dont recollect the volume but it was huge ) . The pumps supplied water through pipes of about 1 meter diameter to cascade down the bow from a series of large openings . This appeared to give her extra speed when progressing in non ridged ice where a continous speed was possible .

She also had a CP propeller in a nozzle which gave a very high bollard pull .
The CP in a Nozzle was new for the Artic and worked very well despite early critical opinions . ( I can talk to that subject for ever I one wants to chat )

A simplistic comparison of HP / Deadweight gives an interesting viewpoint .
The powerof Kigoriak was less than the Azipod configuration . 
Kigoriak was approx 10,000 tonnes DWT with 13 Meagawatt power giving a power weight ratio of 1.3 Kw/ tonne . The described Azipod was 70,000 tonnes with 20 Megawatt giving a ratioof 0.285 Kw / tonne . This is 4.56 times the power weight ratio which means that Kigoriak could accelerate very quickly and push the spoon bow up over the ridge to create a lead .

I doubt ( in fact I am certain ) that the other vessel would not ttempt such a manourve as it would demolish the forward Azipods on ridged Atctic Ice .

I wait for Jok to give us his views .
Derek 
Ps For anyone who is interested in ice and its properties there is a very good publication by Professer Pounder ( Toronto ) called " The Physics of Ice " It makes interesting reading ( must try and find my copy as I havnt read it in 20 odd years . )


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## Bearsie (Nov 11, 2006)

Then my little coaster compares favorably in performance.
It had 1000 hp (rated) and at 850 tdw +450 tons hull weight
roughly 0.8 hp/ton. We did ok, Although I am certainly NOT suggesting that we could go were ice breakers go !
Was great fun at nite using a search light and radar to find cracks in the ice to travel along since this was much faster than "crashing" through it.
Although it got a bit cold up there on the wheel house deck!
Worst part was starting the winch diesels and even worse getting the canvass off (and back on) the hatches,

I find all this stuff rather fascinating.
I saw some statistic (prolly finnish) that ice breaking actually adds a lot of ice growth over time, I seem to recall if normal ice growth was (example) 50cm then in a high traffic lane ice breaking and churning can increase that to 2.50 meter !
Anyone else see that ?

Eitherway it boggles the mind to think that one would drive an Azipod into say 3 meter of solid ice and survive...


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## Derek Roger (Feb 19, 2005)

So that one may understand that 1st year ice is ( Soft ) and easy my number 2 son is at this time breaking ice in Charlottetown Prince Edward Island which is about 18 inches thick in a small tug with only 500 HP .


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## JoK (Nov 12, 2006)

I have been reading up on this so more today instead of doing my 'real' job. It is amazing technology though I still can't imagine how the azipod will cope with ridged Arctic ice with multi year thrown in and pressure on. 

Even more fascinating is the 'oblique' icebreaker that moves sideways. 
http://www.akerarctic.fi/picturesetvideos.htm


I wish I could find the very first article I read about these breakers and the fuel savings they were predicting with a regular open sea bow.

OK, I have to go to work......even though this is more fun. I qualify it as research


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## JoK (Nov 12, 2006)

And that soft ice is a real biatch to break due to the slush that chokes the seabays. You can have interesting times quickly if the recirc temperatures drop-right Derek?


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## Derek Roger (Feb 19, 2005)

No probs on the small vessels with keel coolers .

Re Kigoriak I had a lot to do with the cooling system and the air heating system for the engine room ( Dont want sub zero air going into the main engines )

Will be happy to share what I know but perhaps by PM or other means . I spent a lot of time on the sea water system and it worked very well ; extremley well .
There were a few things we had to change which CSI had mandated but didnt work ! We changed them and didnt tell them . 
Derek


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## jimmys (Jan 5, 2007)

I did not like the Baltic in winter at all. The tankers I was on were conventional. By that I mean no ice strengthing at all, single open propellers, steam turbines with steam deck machinery. They were not fit for that trade.
We took supposed winter diesel in UK and it froze up. We were constantly steaming our heavy oil tanks to power the boilers. There was no coils in the diesel tanks. The grease in our deck machinery was not fit for the temperature and we lost bearings.
Bearsie is right "ice free" does not mean ice free. The only thing warming in the place was Russian Vodka.

jimmys


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## Bearsie (Nov 11, 2006)

Derek Roger said:


> So that one may understand that 1st year ice is ( Soft ) and easy my number 2 son is at this time breaking ice in Charlottetown Prince Edward Island which is about 18 inches thick in a small tug with only 500 HP .


Hehe, I like that, I class my sons as #1, #2, #3 LOL
I was amazed at the difference when visiting Nova Scotia around easter some years back, open water on the Atlantic side and lots of ice on the coastal west side....
Since I never had anyting with 10 000 hp 500 looks good to me 
Although its obvious that for big ice you need massand that mass needs to have some gumption behind it!
A lot of the baltic coasters (dutch and german) had the nickname: "Arschbackenkreuzer" loosely translated: Full cheeks behind cruisers. they simply had no power for their size and were wide too.


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## Bearsie (Nov 11, 2006)

jimmys said:


> I did not like the Baltic in winter at all. The tankers I was on were conventional. By that I mean no ice strengthing at all, single open propellers, steam turbines with steam deck machinery. They were not fit for that trade.
> We took supposed winter diesel in UK and it froze up. We were constantly steaming our heavy oil tanks to power the boilers. There was no coils in the diesel tanks. The grease in our deck machinery was not fit for the temperature and we lost bearings.
> Bearsie is right "ice free" does not mean ice free. The only thing warming in the place was Russian Vodka.
> 
> jimmys


That is quite understandable Jimmy ! Besides the ability to just get there somehow and back out, there are lots of little things the guys in the office don't seem to think of! Thats the same in other industries too.
Don't try to buy "winterized" Diesel fuel in Tennessee and then drive to Chicago where its -20C. The fuel is "winterized" to their idea of cold, so in that sense they aren't even lying... It will jell on you guaranteed!
Steam deck machinery and such doesn't seem a good choice for the winter in the baltic. There are a lot of little things that go with going into the ice, beyond just breaking it.
We were ice strengthened, we had a forged steel propeller with lower pitch for more power, our cabins and bridge were warm, we could prolly maintain 27C in all area's. Search light, on some ships these were/are remote control so one doesn't have to stand in the cold. We had ways to warm our deck diesels to get them started, about the only trouble was the canvass covers, we dealt with them too, just hard work.
Later coasters had steel hatches and hydraulics, we had bypass valves to circulate the oil to warm it up.
Wodka was a last resort LOL 
Old man didnt allow booze on the bridge, a sip at noon was ok with him.
You can see that we were cheery here: http://www.shipsnostalgia.com/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/52224/cat/500/ppuser/9651
Many ships shouldn't be in the Baltic in winter, but many went there anyways.
I guess nowadays the Finns and others tightened up on the rules for winter travel in specific area's


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## Bearsie (Nov 11, 2006)

Another cool link:

http://www.akerarctic.fi/picturesetvideos.htm


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## JoK (Nov 12, 2006)

Another thread I posted to after Bearsie, but see it is not here (Cloud)


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## Bearsie (Nov 11, 2006)

JoK said:


> Another thread I posted to after Bearsie, but see it is not here (Cloud)


That happens to at times on my other computer, JoK.
On that thing I got smart and do a ctrl C before posting so I can do it twice LOL


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## Derek Roger (Feb 19, 2005)

To Break ice is not a very complicted affair ! 

It is very simple in fact !

The hull form and means of propulsion are however extremly important as is the cooling system both sea water cooilng and engine room air temperature control .

If you go back to basics the Kinetic Energy requied to break ice of varing thicknes is simple to calulate depending on the " strenght of the ice " ( see Pounders " physics of ice ")

Kinetic Energy is WV squared /2G . Ie mass times velocity squared .

The difficulty lies in getting the right hull strength with steel which can operate in minus 40 C and a machninery package which can produce the necessary power at that temperature . 

For muti Year Ice it is necessary to lift the mass of the Vessel above the ice ridge and cause it to "Crack " . The passage is then possible through the " Lead "

Heavy Ice Breakers therfore do not progress along their desired route But tend to take the Route of least resistance .

One should not try to compare the Baltic Operation with the Arctic ; the challenges are significanty different .
Derek


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## JoK (Nov 12, 2006)

> Heavy Ice Breakers therfore do not progress along their desired route But tend to take the Route of least resistance .


Unless it is the USCG, they seem to go straight ahead right thru the pans and ignore the leads. (Or they did 15 years ago)


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## Derek Roger (Feb 19, 2005)

Hi Jok Glad to see you commenting again ; would like some of your input as being one of the few with current experience . 

If you ever get your new Ice Breakers I hope your designers will use the Kigoriak Ice Reamer idea which makes for easy backing up and reduced hull friction . The reamer by its design also helped lift the bow over the ice ridges when encountered which helped in maintaing leads .

I also liked the utilisation of the Kort Nozzle in the ice as it does protect the prop very well ; sometimes plugs a little but easy to blow clean with a CP Propeller .

I spent a lot of time with the control people ( ASEA) in writing the logic so that max bollard pull was achieved when Ice Breaking and also that if plugging with ice in the nozzel ocurred the system would automatically reverse very quickly and blow clean then return to full thrust forward .
I am trying to remember if she had a locking device pin on the rudder to " lock " at midships when going astern in heay ice ?? I know we taked about it as a feature but cant remember installing such a system ?? 
I know we had very heavy rudder stops at hard over to protect the hydraulics and also extemley large relief valves on the steering gear cylinders to allow a high flow to protect the hyrdaulic lines and cylinders .

After Kigoriak Dome engineers "played " with the idea of using very large flywheels on the shaft with a CP propeller to improve the torque curve of a diesel installation . This allowed a lot of Kinetic energy to be "stored " in the line of shafting and with a CP Prop running at full revs it is able to keep up the speed of the prop in milling ice . 

Regards Derek


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## JoK (Nov 12, 2006)

The Henry Larsen has or had a locking pin of the rudder at amidship for backing in ice. I am not aware of it being used because I was told it was difficult to get the rudder in the exact loction for the pin to engage. In fact, the Larsen suffered a 12 degree twist in the rudder stock when backing in multi-year ice and having the rudder jammed full over. The Wagner steering gear fitted had hi-lift safeties dumping into seperate tanks for just a situation. 

The Terry Fox has flywheels fitted on the propeller shafts for in exactly the reason you describe. A friend of mine told me that two of the Husky boats also had them fitted. The Beaudril owners of the Terry Fox were very emphatic when they told CG that the propellers shouldn't be stopped in moving ice as they could get jammed with ice. The Captain subsequently proved them right when he shut down in the Bay of Islands. The ice had to be turned out with the shaft turning gear before the clutches engaged.

CCG seems to have stayed away from the CP props on conventional icebreakers. But given how old their ships are, CP props on icebreakers was probably in their infancy and relatively unproven in Canada. 

The breakers I worked on didn't have keel coolers. All seabay recirc to keep the temps up. One class of ship I worked on had all the vents tied into a large vent pipe that went up to the main deck and through the bulwark to vent over the side. Neat little idea to keep slush off the deck, you would think, but what would happen was the slush would be vented with the air and the vent would eventually freeze over. There would be a huge mound of ice on the ships side. Those ships have a central cooling system with everything tied into it. The air would gradually build up in the main seabay until the main sea water pump lost suction and trip. The 2nd pump would then start up and the same thing would happen. There'd be some running then!! The watch engineer would come charging out of the control room, first stop was the refrigeration compressors and isolate the condensor cooling. The central cooler temperature gets so high that it would cause the safety to lift and you would dump the freon. Then it was the the engineroom and all strainer vents open, and start bleeding pumps. The aux boiler hotwell would be jetting steam everywhere. 
The oiler would be sent up to beat the ice off the ships side to clear the vent.
If you were really fast, you could get the plant back. If not you'd start losing diesels one by one. Personally, I've never been in the position of having to pull strainer covers off to shovel slush out of them, but some of the older fellows that had worked on the older ships talk about it. 
It has been many the times I have been out in the middle of the night with a 6 foot bar, hanging over the side, beating the ice of the vent as I was heading off watch or shovelling slush out from under vent pipes to keep them from being plugged.

Seeing some of the ships that transited the Gulf of Saint Lawrence in winter and the crew not having appropriate clothing to work on deck, I have to wonder what the conditions were like in the engineroom when they hit the icepack.


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## Derek Roger (Feb 19, 2005)

In Kigoriaks design we used Cats for Generators with radiator air cooling which helped to keep the engine room temerature up ; also this kept the possibility of the " black lamps coming on " to a minimum if porblems with sea cooling were ever encountered ..

The sea water cooling was quite unique with a complete double bottom section used for the sea suctions to the engines and also recieving the warm sea water discharge ( The double bottom acted to a degree like a keelcooler ) The system was contoled automatically to maintain a sea water temp in the DB to around 10 degrees C ( if I remember correctly ) when this temperature was achived then warm sea water was diverted to the port and Stbd sea bays at the hull water line to deal with any slush or small particles of brocken ice which might enter the sea bays and rise to the surface .. 

The sea bays were huge utilising wing tanks which went from the ships bottom to the main deck . Water passed into the bays through 1 inch holes drilled and reamed through the side shell ( Literally thousands of holes ). They were effectivly ballast tanks open at all times to the sea and the water flowed from the bays through internal pipes with double shut off .
The only flow through the pipes was the "make up water " equal to the amount discharged to the sea bays after the main sea suction double bottom came up to its control temperature .
The double bottom vents passed through the warm engine room and were not subject to freezing . The "sea bays as described were at all times self venting and not subject to freese up .
On my voyage up to Tuk in September 1979 we never had a problem once with cooling and there were no warranry reports of any such problems .


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## JoK (Nov 12, 2006)

Problems of slushing up were more common in the Gulf of St Lawrence. I always run my seabay temps around 20-24*C, I found 10 was too low.
I was in a meeting last week and one of the participants said there is a lot of ice moving up North. Apparently the scientist have buoys embedded in the floes and can track them.
There have been some amzing breakers built in Canada, hopefully there will be again.
The Henry Larsen is a beautiful ship, AC/AC drive, Wartsila engines, wartsila bubblers. She originally had ASEA controls but in the 90's that was changed out to Siemens. That's probably obsolete now as well. Not hard to see why companies don't keep a ship after 20 years-all the electronic systems are obsolete and require a big investment to upgrade.
I think Dartmouth Region of the CG must have went into mourning when she was transferred to Newfoundland. Hard to believe the ship is going to be 20 years old soon. I don't think CG has that knowledge anymore to develop a ship like that everyone has retired and DND double dippers are running the shop.

When I was on the OBO,we were into Dalhousie in November to offload lead ore. We were there for a week. When we sailed on my watch, I noticed temperatures were going haywire and told the 2nd who was with me in the MCR. We bailed out to the engineroom to try to figure out what was going on before the seabays froze up. I was going by the turbos when they started barking-the cooling to the charge air coolers went too high. Nothing like having a big turbo do that when you are beside it, I think the pressure wave cleared my sinuses as well as almost give me a heart failure. 
It turned out that a discharge line had frozen as well as the automatic change over valve. We were very lucky not to lose the plant. Oh yeh, on that ship, I wore insulated coveralls on watch, 10-11*C in the engineroom was not uncommon.


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## Derek Roger (Feb 19, 2005)

Re sea bay temperature you are correct in that it was around 20 to 25 as I recollect it was to make sure the turbo charger air cooler kept the temperature up at a level that was good for the engine ( Most of my time at sea was in the tropics where the problem was to keep the air temp as low as possible ; difficult with sea temps of 90 + F .)

An interesting thing was that CSI ( now ship saftey ) did not want us to draw water for the fresh water generator from the DB "warm water " ( The FW Generator was reverse Osmosis ) and in their approval of drawings / systems required that we drew directly from the sea ( minus 2 degrees C )

This was provided but as project Manager I also had a suction line connected to he " warm " sea bay ( at no cost to the owners and not shown on the diagrams /drawings )

You Know what happened when we got North !!! sea water at minus 2 C once it passed through the R everse Osmosis Daiphragm ( became fresh ) instantly froze and the system plugged up .

We allowed it to thaw and changed over the suction to the " warm " DB Sea bay and everyting was fine . 

CSI had applied the rules correctly "as written " as at one time it was common for conventional ships to inject Toxins into the sea bay to prevent marine organisim build up in the piping and cooler systems . This caused some real problems for the Fresh Water Generatos if they were using the same water ( Hence their requirment to have a direct supply to the FW Generator )

They applied the rule correctly but only because they did not understand the system prented to them for approval .

In their defence CSI were very quick in their approvals ( compared to their normal time frame ) However I can tell you that we sailed the vessel on trials and the trip North with many drawings and diagrams Not Approved particularily the control systems and engine room air warming systems which frankly they did not seem to understand .

Regards Derek


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## JoK (Nov 12, 2006)

We had trhat same problem with vap/ RO seabays. Paint coating were changed in the seabays.
The other issue with TC was the bubbler systems. A lot of discussion what would happen if a pipe blasting that volume of air developed a leak in a tank and would the tank venting system deal with it.
They totally missed the consequences, however, of a bubbler pipe passing thru a fuel tank and developing a leak. Not good in the Arctic in this day and age.
Or a rigid piece of mechanical tubing with 1" walls being attached to a flexing hull,as in the case of the OBO. It seemed always leak around the tubes-but I am fuzzy about those details as I wasn't involved only a bystander.


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