# TID "Tidworth"



## billyboy (Jul 6, 2005)

Anyone know what became of the Tidworth.she worked at newhaven for many years. still oil fired in my time. once towed a very large floating crane from sheerness to Portsmouth with her. surprising what a little TID can pull!


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## meechingman (Feb 20, 2005)

*Tidworth*

Hi William

Somewhere in the back of my mind is the thought that she was bought by Mike Newton-Smith's Metrec company and became the MNS52, or am I thinking of another 1960's Newhaven TID. I'll try to check this one out at the Museum later in the week.

Andy G


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## billyboy (Jul 6, 2005)

Thanks Andy. dont get confused with the "Metric" though. she was used on the Brighton marina project. my "Older" brother was skipper on tyhat one. she was an ex-rhine barge tug i believe. twin screw, two bladed props 6' diameter running in court nozles. how come John watters died? accident?? He regarded my mother as his mother. we were close . thats why it came as a bit of a shock to me. real nice guy was John. Greatful for your friendship and knowledge andy


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## billyboy (Jul 6, 2005)

could be. in my experience with this TID it meant "towing in darkness" no radar,no radio,no decca navigator.... Gods guidance + my Father at the wheel with a bottle of haigh dimple hidden in the flag locker under "S"... LOL


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## meechingman (Feb 20, 2005)

*Tidowrth*

Hi William

Just did some research. I was right. Tidworth was sold shortly after Meeching arrived, to Mike Newton Smith, of METREC. He enamed her after himself hence M N S 52. (I have a feeling she may have been TID 52 in an earlier life) He re-engined her in 1963, with a 400hp diesel. She was used in the construction of the Severn bridge, then was sold to Belgian owners and renamed Castor in 1966. Lloyds Register of 1975 shows her still going, but there the trail ends.

The tug 'Metrec' looks like another TID conversion, but that was later - late 1960's or early 70's, judging by the photo.

Hope to have some Tidworth photos soon, including ones with Crystal Jewel.

Andrew


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## billyboy (Jul 6, 2005)

Thank you for the information about the "old TID". very greatful for your kind research Meechingman. as for the "Metric" I worked that for a few weeks on the brighton marina project. Two Caterpilar diesels she had. 2 bladed props 6 feet in diameter running in kort nozzles. believe she was used for towing barges on the Rhine before that. on the Brighton Marina project my older brother George was the skipper.
Do you remember an old trawler there called "Pandora" she was a converted french crabber. sank off Peacehaven some years ago. no one saw our flares in the fog. god that water was damn cold, second week of december that was ... LOL. Crazy days they were.


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## BillH (Oct 10, 2007)

Extracted from my book T.I.D. Tugs of WW2 published Nov 2019 by the World Ship Society

*T.I.D. 116 * c/s MDWL 
O.N. 180321. 54g. 0n. 65.0 x 17.0 x 7.4 feet.
C.2-cyl. (12½” and 26” x 18”) by John Dickinson and Sons Ltd., Sunderland. Boiler by Caledon Shipbuilding and Engineering Ltd., Dundee. Oil fuel. 220 IHP. 8½ knots.
Post 196x: Unspecified type diesel.
04.10.1944: (Ministry Job No. A/MS/1033) launched by Richard Dunston Ltd., Thorne (Yard No. 537) for the Ministry of War Transport, London, (Stanley Lancelot Tottle, Hull, manager at the Ministry).
22.11.1944: Registered at Hull, vessel No.134 of 1944. 
12.12.1944: Completed. 
13.12.1944 until 02.01.1945: Not allocated.
03.01.1945 until 30.10.1945: Allocated to miscellaneous naval duties
16.02.1945: Allocated to the Netherlands Royal Marine for duties at Vlissingen (Flushing)
31.10.1945: Allocated to the South East Asia Command, (T. Phelan and Co. Ltd, Liverpool, appointed as lay-up managers).
20.03.1946: Owners restyled as the Ministry of Transport, (Stanley Lancelot Tottle, Hull, manager at the Ministry),
1947: Sold to the James Contracting and Dredging Co. Ltd at London,
18.02.1947: Hull registry closed, consequent of re-registry in London.
24.02.1947: Renamed TIDWORTH.
1947: Sold to the British Transport Commission, Southampton.
1962: Sold to Metal Recoveries Ltd and Associated Bridge Builders Ltd, Newhaven, and re-engined.
1966: Sold to the Liverpool Grain Storage and Transit Co. Ltd., Liverpool, and renamed CASTOR.
1976: Sold to Bradshaw and Weston Marine Services Ltd., Weston-super-Mare, rebuilt in part, and renamed WESTON COUGAR.
1976: Sold to Conteglade and Darlington Ltd., Liverpool.
1976: Reported as sold to Turkey (per Jaap Bijl). Also reported as demolished.


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## meechingman (Feb 20, 2005)

You've corrected my earlier 2005 error, thanks! Tidworth kept that name after METREC bought her and ran her here at Newhaven until 1966. It was TID52 that became MNS52. Mind you, METREC bought lot of TIDs, some to scrap and some to rebuild. Sunnyside was another of his that operated here in the early 1960s, not sure of her original TID number, but I have it on file somewhere here.

With respect, I think there may possible be an error or two in the data that you've posted, Bill. My own records show her being sold to James Contracting in 1947, and also to BTC in the same year. There does seem to be a close tie-up between the two companies at Newhaven, as Newhaven's other tug Foremost 22, was also sold to both James Contracting and BTC, hence her 'Foremost' name and number.

METREC bought Tidworth from British Rail when Meeching had proven that the port only needed one tug and I have both 1961 and 1962 as the date, based on the local records I found! As for Associated Bridge Builders, I always thought that this may have come later, when she was working on the construction of the Severn Bridge. I'll ask some of my local contacts, some of whom worked for Mike Newton-Smith's METREC organisation.

As always, research can be tricky, especially when there's often no-one left around to ask.


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## BillH (Oct 10, 2007)

Morning Andrew,
Thanks for your post on the 1947 changes. If you look again both those changes are detailed as such.
Here are other T.I.Ds with a Newhaven connection

*T.I.D. 59 * c/s MJVN
O.N. 169359. 54g. 0n. 
65.0 x17.0 x 7.4 feet
C.2-cyl. (12½” and 26” x 18”) by John Dickinson and Sons Ltd., Sunderland. Boiler by Alexander Anderson and Co, Motherwell. Coal fuel. 220 IHP. 8½ knots.
Post 1962: Unspecified Petter type diesel.
Post 1965: Unspecified Ruston type diesel. 350bhp.
Pre 2001: 6-cyl. 4 SCSA type Volvo diesel.
23.12.1943: (Ministry Job No. A/MS/835) launched by Richard Dunston at Thorne (Yard No. 468) for the Ministry of War Transport, London, (Stanley Lancelot Tottle, Hull, manager at the Ministry).
28.01.1944: Registered at Hull, vessel No.13 of 1944. 
07.02.1944: Completed. Allocated to War Department duties.
10.11.1944: Allocated to Boulogne, with the 21st Army Group.
03.02.1945: Having been replaced by T.I.D. 105, sailed from Boulogne bound for Nore.
05.02.1945: Allocated to Calais.
18.06.1945: Ordered to Southampton by the Director of Sea Transport, for tropicalisation and refit for Far East Theatre.
29.06.1945: Arrived Southampton and reallocated to miscellaneous naval duties at Portland.
10.10.1945: Returned to the control of the Ministry of War Transport.
17.10.1945 until 12.12.1945: Placed in lay-up, under care and maintenance of W. D. Tamlyn and Co. Ltd., Plymouth.
13.12.1945 until 10.1946: Allocated to miscellaneous naval duties at Falmouth, during which time;
20.03.1946: Owners restyled as the Ministry of Transport, (Stanley Lancelot Tottle, Hull, manager at the Ministry).
09.07.1946: Collided with MFV 1005 at Falmouth
11.09.1946: Allocated for handing over to the Director of Sea Transport.
10.1946: Placed in lay-up, under care and maintenance of W.D.Tamlyn and Co. Ltd., Plymouth.
1947: Sold to Percival Carney and Sons Ltd., Sunderland, converted to oil fuel, and renamed SUNNYSIDE.
08.09.1947: Hull register closed, consequent of re-registry at Sunderland.
1957: Owners restyled as Joseph Carney and Sons Ltd., Sunderland
1960: Sold to Fenchurch Shipping Co. Ltd., London.
1962: Sold to Metal Recoveries Ltd at Newhaven, re-engined.
(unclear if motorised by Fenchurch or Metrec as the Mercantile Navy List has steam to the 1963 edition).
1965: Sold to Britannia Steam Towing Co. Ltd., (L. Barber) Swansea, and renamed TROVER.
1965: Re-engined.
1965: Owners acquired by the Alexandra Towing Co. Ltd., Liverpool, becoming a subsidiary.
1972: Sold to Bulk Cargo Handling Services Ltd., Liverpool.
1973: Sold to the Carmet Tug Co. Ltd (Carrier and Metcalfe), Bromborough.
197x: Renamed LADY MENAI.
1980: Sold to Clive Evans, Anglesey, and renamed LADY OF MENAI. 
198x: Sold to Marev Tugs (C. Williams), Port Penryn, re-engined and converted into a houseboat.
13.09.2003: Seen at Fleetwood.
2005: Advertised for sale
1.2016: Still at Fleetwood.
No further details.

*T.I.D. 52* c/s MJPY 
O.N. 169348. 54g. 0n. 
65.0 x 17.0 x 7.4 feet.
C.2-cyl. (12½” and 26” x 18”) by Worsley Mesnes Ironworks Ltd., Wigan. Boiler by David Rowan and Co. Ltd., Glasgow. Coal fuel. 220 IHP. 8½ knots. 
Post 1965: Unspecified type diesel, 400bhp.
09.11.1943: (Ministry Job No. A/MS/828) launched by Richard Dunston Ltd., Thorne (Yard No. 461) for the Ministry of War Transport, London, (Stanley Lancelot Tottle, Hull, manager at the Ministry).
03.01.1944: Registered at Hull, vessel No.1 of 1944. 
05.01.1944: Completed. Allocated to miscellaneous naval duties.
10.11.1944: Operating with the Allied Naval Commander, Expeditionary Force, under Tug Control, Southampton.
16.03.1945: Allocated to Portsmouth pool.
20.03.1946: Owners restyled as the Ministry of Transport, (Stanley Lancelot Tottle, Hull, manager at the Ministry).
04.09.1946: Placed into lay-up, under care and maintenance of Townsend Ferries Ltd., pending disposal.
14.10.1946: Allocated to Chatham A.S. Department.
12.1946: Allocated to the Captain in Charge Nore to replace T.I.D. 62.
31.01.1947: Departed Portsmouth in tow for Chatham.
23.08.1947: Transferred to the Captain of Dockyard, Chatham, for basin duties.
01.06.1948: British Mercantile Registry closed, consequent of transfer to the Admiralty, under the Nore Command.
12.1957: Incorporated into the Port Auxiliary Service, Chatham.
01.05.1961: Declared as being surplus to requirement.
05.09.1961: Instructed to be held in reserve; refitted at Chatham then steamed to Portsmouth for care and maintenance until required to replace T.I.D. 119. However, she remained in reserve at Chatham.
17.05.1963: Instructions issued to de-equip.
12.06.1963: Completed.
09.09.1963: Sold to Lacmots Ltd., Sheerness.
16.09.1963: Removed from Chatham.
1963: Sold to MNS Fishing Ltd (Mike Newton Smith), Newhaven, and renamed MNS 52.
1965: Re-engined.
Final fate unknown.
*T.I.D. 79* c/s MNWN
O.N. 180247. 55g. 0n. 65.0 x 17.0 x 7.4 feet.
C.2-cyl. (12½” and 26” x 18”) by John Dickinson and Sons Ltd., Sunderland. Boiler by John G Kincaid and Co. Ltd., Greenock. Coal fuel. 220 IHP. 8½ knots. 
Post 1967: Unidentified type diesel by Lister, Blackstone and Company Ltd., Dursley.
06.04.1944: (Ministry Job No. A/MS/855) launched by Richard Dunston at Thorne (Yard No. 488) for the Ministry of War Transport, London, (Stanley Lancelot Tottle, Hull, manager at the Ministry).
20.04.1944: Registered at Hull, vessel No.52 of 1944. 
15.05.1944: Completed. 
15.05.1944 until 21.11.1945: Allocated to War Department duties during which time
31.05.1944 until 19.07.1945: Operated by 571 MTB Coy Royal Army Service Corp.
19.07.1945 until 19.09.1945: Operated by 625 MTB Coy Royal Army Service Corp.
22.11.1945 until 04.12.1945: Placed in lay-up.
05.12.1945: Chartered to Risdon Beazley Ltd., Southampton.
20.03.1946: Owners restyled as the Ministry of Transport, (Stanley Lancelot Tottle, Hull, manager at the Ministry).
27.06.1946: Sold to the United Towing Co. Ltd., Hull, and renamed HILLMAN.(This sale/renaming was not entered into the Hull register).
07.08.1946: Hull registry closed consequent of re-registry at Grimsby to J.H. Pigott and Sons Ltd., Grimsby.
30.10.1954: Capsized and sank in Grimsby Fish Dock while towing trawler KIRKNES, subsequently refloated and offered for sale in an “as is” condition.
1955: Sold to the St Andrew's Fisherman's Association at Hull, repaired, and renamed DAGGER.
1956: Sold to the Hull Steam Trawlers Mutual Insurance and Protection Co. Ltd., Hull.
1964: (M.N.S. Fishing Ltd., Newhaven). _See note below._
1967: Sold to Metrec Ltd at Newhaven, and re-engined for towing a non-propelled lighter used for wreck salvage.
1974/5: Beached and demolished together with the lighter by Metal Recoveries Ltd., at Invergordon.

_Received from Hamish Mackenzie (February 2010):- 'Just a line to let you know what happened to TID79 (Dagger). She ended up in the Cromarty Firth, and was still owned by MNS Fishing then known as Metrec (Orkney) Ltd., towing barges with the salvage metal from the wreck of HMS NATAL to Invergordon and was scrapped 1974 or 75, at Invergordon'_

*T.I.D. 120 *c/s MFFJ 
O.N. 180386. 54g. 0n. 65.0 x 17.0 x 7.4 feet.
C.2-cyl. (12½” and 26” x 18”) by Worsley Mesnes Ironworks Ltd., Wigan. Boiler by Alexander Anderson and Co, Motherwell. Oil fuel. 220 IHP. 8½ knots.
Post 1953: Unspecified type diesel. 336bhp-251kW
Post 1971: Unspecified type diesel.
26.10.1944: (Ministry Job No. A/MS/1037) launched by Richard Dunston Ltd., Thorne (Yard No. 541) for the Ministry of War Transport, London, (Stanley Lancelot Tottle, Hull, manager at the Ministry).
05.12.1944: Registered at Hull, vessel No.139 of 1944. 
09.01.1945: Completed. 
17.01.1945: Allocated to miscellaneous naval duties.
06.1945: Planned to be rebuilt for the Far East, but work not undertaken.
20.03.1946: Owners restyled as the Ministry of Transport, (Stanley Lancelot Tottle, Hull, manager at the Ministry).
11.09.1946: Released from Naval service.
09.1946: Placed in lay-up under care and maintenance of Townsend Bros. (Ferries) Ltd.
1947: Sold to the James Contracting and Shipping Co. Ltd., London, and renamed TIDEWAY.
18.02.1947: Hull registry closed, consequent of re-registry in London.
1950: Sold to the Foremost Dredging Co. Ltd., London.
1960: Re-engined.
1966: Sold to the James Contracting and Shipping Co. Ltd., Southampton
1971: Sold to the Westminster Dredging Co. Ltd., London,
1972: Renamed W.D. TIDERIP.
1981: Sold to Itchen Marine (Towage) Ltd (R.A. and G. A. Wyeth) , Southampton, and renamed WYERIP.
1983: Sold to J. Dinwoodie and Sons,Granton, and renamed TIDERIP
1984: Sold to Subsearch Marine Services Ltd., (David Miller) , Newhaven, Sussex, equipped for tendering and diving.
12.1998: At Denton Creek, Newhaven, Sussex, intact on the quay alongside the old Metrec shed (rebuild planned)
11.1999: Her bow had been removed.
12.2000: Bow back to bridge, and stern to engine room gone.
6.2001: Demolition almost complete when last seen.


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## meechingman (Feb 20, 2005)

Thanks for the extra info. I have one very fuzzy photo of Sunnyside working outside the harbour, taken in 1963, and Our Newhaven has a general 'up-river' photo showing her around the same year. They both show her with a motor tug's funnel, so she had definitely been re-engined by then.

Bonchurch was also here for a while, laid up at what was once Metrec's berth at Denton Island. No local info as to whether or not she was bought by a local company. Dave (Dusty) Miller used Tiderip here for a while a shown in your data - she even got involved in a local salvage - but I guess she became surplus to requirements as he bought bigger and better tugs.


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