# Can You Tell The Differnce in Quality



## Shipbuilder (Jun 30, 2005)

This thread has been started as a continuation of Nearly Fainted and is connected more with what the individual sees in a model.

Here are two models next to each other. The two photographs were taken in 1972 and 2005 respectively when I completed them. I can see a world of difference and improvement between BIDSTON HILL of 1972 and SOMALI of 2005, but I sometimes wonder if all the effort was worth it when 90% of people say they are both as good as each other and can't tell the difference!

To recap, the BIDSTON HILL recently re-appeared on Ebay and sold for £376! I had originally sold it for £16 in 1972!

Bob

PS. This thread dupilicated by mistake whilst correcting spelling mistake!


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## Ian6 (Feb 1, 2006)

Bob
Both look good but your later model 'Somali' looks superior, of course the colour photograph helps.
Your model sea is impressively lifelike let alone the detailing of the ships.
Ian


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## Shipbuilder (Jun 30, 2005)

Ian,
Thanks,
My wife did the sea on SOMALI, so can't claim any credit for that!
Bob


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## 6639 (Apr 20, 2006)

hi bob......the insurmountable question, with no real answer..and similar to "how long is a piece of string"...which only the original poster can answer in all honesty......

as a fellow modeller, you know as well as i do, that you could put a model of a trawler up against a model of a single hatch coaster to a person who doesn't know the difference between a boat and a ship, and they would say they were both the same......two masts, one funnel and a pointy bit at the front and a roundy bit at the back.
and it's just the same with quality of work...you know you have improved vastly since day one, as any model maker would hope to, just as i would...BUT , to the untrained eye, you could put a dog of a model up against a museum piece built by a professional, and to the untrained eye...they would be viewed equally in quality by someone who doesn't know an amateur painting by numbers from a Rembrandt.....so don't loose heart......you know as well as i do.."yer gettin better matey..day by day," lol


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## John Dryden (Sep 26, 2009)

They say beauty is in the eye of the beholder and I have to say your models are fantastic.I,d love to see a model of a Bank line ship,have you ever made one Bob?
If you did I reckon it would attract a lot of interest,especially on SN.
Great story about your Bidston Hill model after all those years.


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## Shipbuilder (Jun 30, 2005)

Thanks for replies.
I don't mind at all that someone got £376 for the BIDSTON HILL when I only got £16, but more and more, I am coming to realise that most people in the UK can't actually tell the difference between models I built years ago and the ones I produce now. Hence the feeling "is it worth bothering" is creeping in more and more of late.

A London auctioneer who has been selling my models for years recently suggested I buid certain models because they would be a sure success. I obliged and without exception, they were flops. On the other hand, several small ones that I produced very quickly in spare moments, and of a very simple nature, went for such vast amounts that my profit was in excess of £25 per hour building time!

I don't want to build soley for profit, but more for love of the subject, but with a reasonable profit involved. Neither am I touting for business, because I largely build whatever I feel like at the time. When I did private commissions years ago, it was like a millstone around my neck with 24 on the waiting list in the year 2000.

John,
Here is the ESKBANK. It sold on Ebay, but was damaged in transit on the way across the Atlantic and cost me dear. The EEC rules say that the seller is 100% responsible for damage or loss. So for that reason, I will never sell overseas again. It would not be so bad if one could obtain genuine transit insurance, but as soon as this law came in, the couriers either charged almost as much as the model for comprehensive cover, or slapped on a £200 excess, meaning that they would not pay for the first £200 of damage or loss!

All my best customers were in the USA, Hong Kong, Ireland and Europe!

Bob


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## jerome morris (May 27, 2008)

Bob, Yes! I know exactly what you are saying too.
I repair models at an Art gallery here on the coast of Maine.
We see a lot of folks in the summer months and 90% of those can't tell the difference from a nicely done model to a piece of *hit.
That 90% also doesn't have a clue about ships and boats either.
Kind of sad in a way, as with out ships we would not be here!


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## John Dryden (Sep 26, 2009)

Thanks for showing us the Eskbank model,very nice .What a shame it was damaged.


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## Shipbuilder (Jun 30, 2005)

Thanks for replies. Jerome, I am glad I am not the only one to notice this.

I built another bank ship years ago, KELVINBANK, but don't have a photograph. I have also built famous Bank Line 4-masted barque OLIVEBANK.

Bob


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## jerome morris (May 27, 2008)

Bob, What ever became of the damaged model?
I repair models and would have loved to have a chance at fixing her.


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## Shipbuilder (Jun 30, 2005)

Jerome,
The derricks aft of the funnel had all been knocked off (despite being soldered on). I could have fixed it easily enough myself, but the transport costs to return it across the North Atlantic and redelivery were not viable, so we agreed that I would just refund part of the payment and he kept the model. In the end, I did not actually loose out, but it reduced my profit on it to a minimal amount!
Bob


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## jerome morris (May 27, 2008)

So Bob, Did the model ever get repaired?
I'd be willing to help the guy out if he wants it fixed.


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## Shipbuilder (Jun 30, 2005)

He said he was a modelmaker himslef and would fix it. I sent off a few feet of wire and instructions on how to do it, but never heard an more about it. It was several years ago now. The damage was not all that bad, he sent me a photograph. About four of the derricks had come off and some rails were damaged. I could have fixed it in less than an hour, so I would imagine he sorted it out himself long ago.
Bob


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## Don Matheson (Mar 13, 2007)

Bob If it makes you feel any better I can see a huge improvement in your vessels over the years. I think your standing and running rigging has seen a massive improvement and I like the sea and how the ship sits in the sea. The changes in your ships over the years are "to me" well worth watching out for and I enjoy your posts here. 
To help you from your imagined problem, could it be self esteem, I will make an offer of £18 for your Somalia, forget this £16 nonsense!

Wife was with me one day at a club open day and she pointed out a large plastic kit of a motor boat, amongst all the others, saying people would pick that one as they are not "boat people" and see the big shiny speed boat type on TV. A fair point I had never thought about.

Don


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## Shipbuilder (Jun 30, 2005)

Don,

Thanks, your wife got it exactly right. Unfortunately, not many people know anything at all about ships these days. After the amazing sale of ancient and amateurish BIDSTON HILL (by someone else), I entered a fine model of the recently completed barque JAMES A. WRIGHT on Ebay for 7 days. It had 159 views and 14 watchers. It closed a few minutes ago, unsold. It will not be relisted and I really wonder if it is worth carrying on. I am certainly going to be cutting down from now on.

SOMALI went several years ago for a good price or I might have been tempted by your offer of £18(==D).

Bob


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## DURANGO (Aug 22, 2005)

Shipbuilder said:


> Thanks for replies. Jerome, I am glad I am not the only one to notice this.
> 
> I built another bank ship years ago, KELVINBANK, but don't have a photograph. I have also built famous Bank Line 4-masted barque OLIVEBANK.
> 
> Bob


Bob I dont suppose that you have the over the side coulor scheme of the Olivebank by any chance I am in the process of building her in a bottle and I can no longer find my drawings of her which I made from the model of that fine ship in the London office of Bank line some years back best regards Dave .


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## Shipbuilder (Jun 30, 2005)

Hi Dave,
Originally, OLIVEBANK had black bulwarks and below that, 16 black painted ports on a broad white band. Beneath that and down to the red boot topping, it was grey. There was also a narrow black strip directly beneath the broad white band. But in later years, the hull was just black like this.
Bob


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## DURANGO (Aug 22, 2005)

Shipbuilder said:


> Hi Dave,
> Originally, OLIVEBANK had black bulwarks and below that, 16 black painted ports on a broad white band. Beneath that and down to the red boot topping, it was grey. There was also a narrow black strip directly beneath the broad white band. But in later years, the hull was just black like this.
> Bob


 Thanks for that Bob I did think grey came into it somewhere I did the drawing at Bank line office in the city nigh on 15 years ago when I was working on the lifts in their London office at Royal Mint court , by the way Bob I,m sure you would agree that if you are building ship models to make money forget it , I have found that if I wanted to make a profit on my work I would have to lower my standards so much and cut so many corners I just could not bring myself to do it I only build ships for friends or to put in charity raffles for me it,s all about personal satisfaction best regards and many thanks again Dave .


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## Shipbuilder (Jun 30, 2005)

Hi Dave,
Glad to be of assistance. I have made quite a lot of £s over the years building them. I took voluntary redundancy at the age of 48 and built miniature ships full time for some years. The prices varied though, quite often, what I considered my best sold for less than £200, whilst one that I threw together in 33 hours sold for £780! I would not recommend anyone to try making a living at it these days. I stopped sending them to the Maritime auctions in about 2009. Private commissions were OK, but an awful lot of hassle. I am now quitting private commissions altogether and just going to build what I feel like, but they will still be sold. Years ago, I gave quite a few away to friends, but was surprised at how many turned up in shops with heavy price tags on them! One turned up in an Oxfam shop, so the recipient had not placed a great deal of value on it! Result - no freebies any more!
I really do enjoy building them though, when they are of my own choice.

Bob


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