# Live Cattle Trade Halted



## Binnacle (Jul 22, 2005)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-13598243

Four Corner's video not available outwith Australia.


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## Orbitaman (Oct 5, 2007)

But only to specific abbatoirs in Indonesia. It would appear that trade to other destinations in Indonesia and the rest of the world continue and that the greens/independents are only pushing for exports to Indonesia to be halted.


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## Malky Glaister (Nov 2, 2008)

Halul I suppose, bless em

Malky


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## Tony Collins (Aug 29, 2010)

Here is the link for the programme
http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/special_eds/20110530/cattle/


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## reefrat (Nov 4, 2007)

I dont understand us australians,,we lectured the world on global warming and then we have taken sides in a tribal war in afghanistan and now we are trying to tell other people how to slaughter their cattle. Why don't we mind our own blasted business,,maybe it's a result of being ruled by an adulteress who, for political power is in league, (I almost typed 'in bed", but that may be an insult too far) with a pederast


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## david m leadbetter (Dec 12, 2010)

Anyone watching this movie (4 corners) will be horrified. This treatment is not religeous slauhter but impatient cruelty in the name of killing some incapable beast.


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## stein (Nov 4, 2006)

Personally I'm all for ensuring better treatment of animals, but they are not treated that well anywhere: we should not be too hypocritical. '

We have had a recent debate in Norway, where the Labour Party youth organisation wanted to stop the fur business in Norway, and produced some horrific pictures for the television debates. Animals stacked in tiny cages above each other, gnawing at themselves and those they are sharing the cramped cages with. I'd say it is better with a torturous death than a torturous whole life. 

Near to a hundred meat oxen are caged in concrete boxes for their whole life by a farmer near to me. They make a horrendous noise when a slaughter lorry is expected - maybe because they are not fed before being slaughtered? - Or do they know? 

Chickens, pigs, whatever, are treated like dead meat being processed in a factory from birth, and the New Zealanders go ape if a Japanese or a Norwegian shoots a whale in the wild - that puzzles me! (Jester)


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## trotterdotpom (Apr 29, 2005)

reefrat said:


> I dont understand us australians,,we lectured the world on global warming and then we have taken sides in a tribal war in afghanistan and now we are trying to tell other people how to slaughter their cattle. Why don't we mind our own blasted business,,maybe it's a result of being ruled by an adulteress who, for political power is in league, (I almost typed 'in bed", but that may be an insult too far) with a pederast[/QUOTE
> 
> Steady on Reefrat ... you're speaking about the woman Degsy loves.
> 
> ...


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## Oz. (Sep 6, 2005)

Reefrat - adultery is is sexual activity between a married person and someone who is not their spouse. 
Pederasty is sexual activity involving a man and a boy.
I am not aware of the sexual habits of the Prime Minister and/or her man, neither do I care about it, but I doubt that either meaning from Oxford Dictionary On Line refers to them.
I think your comments in Post 5 reveals more about you than it does about them. 
I have spent time in slaughter houses here in Australia - none of it is nice but the outright cruelty shown in the program is unforgivable and totally avoidable. Use of a stun gun which is common practice world wide would go a long way to solving the problem, even allowing for Hal-Al practices.


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## barrinoz (Oct 9, 2006)

It should also be said that some folks are a bit too trigger happy with the Halal reference as if this mis-treatment of animals is commonplace in that ritual. 
It isn't. It is just downright appalling, unnecessary cruelty by ignoramuses, ignored for far too long by people who should have known better.
What Julia Gillard's sex life has to do with anything is a mystery to me. Degsy must be in-consolable.
Whales aren't farmed, Stein. There is no real good reason for their slaughter when there are plenty of alternatives available to Japanese and Norwegians.
Would you go 'ape' if the New Zealanders shot apes for tucker?
barrinoz.


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## James_C (Feb 17, 2005)

barrinoz said:


> Would you go 'ape' if the New Zealanders shot apes for tucker?
> barrinoz.


As long as it is *sustainable*, why would anyone care? Aside from the touchy feely huggy element of course


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## barrinoz (Oct 9, 2006)

James_C said:


> As long as it is *sustainable*, why would anyone care? Aside from the touchy feely huggy element of course


My point, exactly! Harvesting apes for human consumption would be a step too far though, for me, anyway.
barrinoz.


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## trotterdotpom (Apr 29, 2005)

"Sustainable" is not the same as "cruel".

There is plenty of evidence that people who are cruel to animals are willing to behave the same way with humans.

Let's hope they soon catch those psychos in Manchester who killed the birds and fish in an anmimal sanctuary.

John T


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## Malky Glaister (Nov 2, 2008)

Catch who ever is poisoning dogs at Crosshills, Yorkshire as well.

regards Malky


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## reefrat (Nov 4, 2007)

Oz. said:


> Reefrat - adultery is is sexual activity between a married person and someone who is not their spouse.
> Pederasty is sexual activity involving a man and a boy.
> I am not aware of the sexual habits of the Prime Minister and/or her man, neither do I care about it, but I doubt that either meaning from Oxford Dictionary On Line refers to them.
> I think your comments in Post 5 reveals more about you than it does about them.
> I have spent time in slaughter houses here in Australia - none of it is nice but the outright cruelty shown in the program is unforgivable and totally avoidable. Use of a stun gun which is common practice world wide would go a long way to solving the problem, even allowing for Hal-Al practices.


Check out the ranga's form ;your kindly provided quotation does apply as the man involved was married
You are right about pederast, but I thought that ******** was a bit strong for the leader of the Greens. 

As one who could definitely run guts for slow butcher, beasts were killed with a rifle shot, speared, sledge hammer to the skull, all for cattle, or had their throats cut and left to bleed to death for vealers, pigs and sheep.

The point of my post was not pontificate on the slaughtering practices of over countries,(a couple of tons of captive bolts would solve the problem) but to remark on the predeliction of Oz politicians to lecture others on variety of subjects like an angry bantam cock on his dunghill


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## stein (Nov 4, 2006)

Barrinoz


> Whales aren't farmed, Stein. There is no real good reason for their slaughter when there are plenty of alternatives available to Japanese and Norwegians.


That’s just circular argumentation. Neither the “farming” or the "alternatives available” is anything more than a vague premise interchangeable with the conclusion. I’m actually saying that whales aren’t “farmed” and that that’s good for them. It must be better being a whale, eventually being shot, than spending your life caged up before being slaughtered. 

I see the selective empathy bit again. Some empathy with animals we all got, some enjoy taking degenerated town dogs, bred to look like children, on small evening airings, and take great pleasure waving at more or less demented wild animals in midtown concentration camps. If accused of inhumanity, they will answer that the animals are fed without striving for their food and must be in paradise... doing a bit of self portraiture most likely. 

And some of us consider it likely that freedom, life in the wild, is probably much more important to animals than to beings that can enjoy television entertainment etc; ergo: killing whales in a sustainable hunt is morally superior to the alternatives. (Jester)


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## teb (May 23, 2008)

stein said:


> Barrinoz
> 
> That’s just circular argumentation. Neither the “farming” or the "alternatives available” is anything more than a vague premise interchangeable with the conclusion. I’m actually saying that whales aren’t “farmed” and that that’s good for them. It must be better being a whale, eventually being shot, than spending your life caged up before being slaughtered.
> 
> ...


What pray is " Morally Superior"about shooting a harpoon into whale ?? dont tell me because is always been so. In my mind it is indefensible.(Cloud)


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## Alex Salmond (Mar 7, 2011)

reefrat said:


> I dont understand us australians,,we lectured the world on global warming and then we have taken sides in a tribal war in afghanistan and now we are trying to tell other people how to slaughter their cattle. Why don't we mind our own blasted business,,maybe it's a result of being ruled by an adulteress who, for political power is in league, (I almost typed 'in bed", but that may be an insult too far) with a pederast


Mate Ive got to admit i,m getting a bit concerned about you convicts across the ditch ,not only have you got all this old hoohah going on but now you cant even swear at things when it all becomes a bit too much or the little sisters of the poor AKA the Police will round you up and stick you in the pokie ,pitiful also according to the news today your dollars on a par with the Ecudorean escudo ,and,and you let a poncy crowd of Kiwi basketballers win YOUR championship ,whats that all about ?? its enough to make a grown man weep ,Oh no ive just thought of something thats too horrible to contemplate what if ,Horrors ,the Warriors win the NRL this year .Look ill tell you what i,ll do me and John Key are good mates so when hes finished planking or tweeting or whatever it is "with it"prime ministers" do these days i,ll ask him if you guys can become a province of NZ ,now I cant say fairer than that now can I?.


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## barrinoz (Oct 9, 2006)

Ah, you do like your argumentation, Stein, don't you? "A vague premise interchangeable with the conclusion!" What's vague about it? I don't see that being shot, or harpooned, to use the correct term, is a good conclusion at all and in no way necessary or defensible any more.
If you remove the ,"eventually being shot" bit from the second sentence of your post, then I agree.
I note you included 'sustainable' in your argument for whale killing. Also the word 'hunt'. Interesting. Might go down the supermarket and hunt me a chicken.
barrinoz.


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## Alex Salmond (Mar 7, 2011)

James_C said:


> As long as it is *sustainable*, why would anyone care? Aside from the touchy feely huggy element of course


Mate I dont consider myself either Huggy ,feely,or even particularly touchy but the mistreatment of animals is a blight on all thinking humans apart that is from scavengers who will stick anything into their gobs without a care in the world "sustainable"dont make me laugh another word for you farm them however you want and ill eat them just dont make me look at them suffering and ill be fine,Pitiful.and this constant chasing after the Arab dollar by kowtowing to their halal mythology is enough to make you sick.


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## Alex Salmond (Mar 7, 2011)

stein said:


> Barrinoz
> 
> That’s just circular argumentation. Neither the “farming” or the "alternatives available” is anything more than a vague premise interchangeable with the conclusion. I’m actually saying that whales aren’t “farmed” and that that’s good for them. It must be better being a whale, eventually being shot, than spending your life caged up before being slaughtered.
> 
> ...


Jeez this thread is starting to make my blood boil what is this Cr## ,what are you saying that whales should be grateful to us for allowing them to swim around for a while before we kill them ?? when I say we i mean you Norskies and the Japanese who hunt them for "scientific purposes "please spare us, just say you like to eat them and have done with it,and what is this old cobblers about degenerate town dogs and waving at wild animals in concentration camps ,it sounds mental,lucky for them they are there or people would probably eat them.I hope you think killing whales is sustainable when theres none left cos youve hunted them to extinction ,God and Greenpeace save us from people would can justify the wholesale slaughter of living creatures ,and before you ask yes I practice what I preach.


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## stein (Nov 4, 2006)

teb/barrinoz 
One may discuss the morality of killing as compared with not killing, but, as you will find by reading my postings, I'm not doing that here, I'm rather saying that I would prefer living in freedom and then being shot, to living in torturous imprisonment and also finally being shot, and would expect most animals to agree with me on that. (There the moral superiority.) As for death itself, I would prefer it to be sudden.

barrinoz
I mentioned what were the premises interchangeable with the conclusions, namely what you wrote. The addition now presented as what was intended and not circular, namely being shot, would indeed be relevant within the unacceptability of killing any animal for food, but this has not so far been postulated. 

May I take the word “hunt” to be objectionable because of being slightly analogous to “sport”? (“Might go down the supermarket and hunt me a chicken.”) If so, I’ll put the blame on the vagueness of the word – I actually don’t honour the sport of hunting at all, and meant something close to the word “cull.”

And finally, here is the final sentence of my first posting (#7 - it's still there): "Chickens, pigs, whatever, are treated like dead meat being processed in a factory from birth, and the New Zealanders go ape if a Japanese or a Norwegian shoots a whale in the wild - that puzzles me!" - It will be seen that I do not actually advocate hunting whales, but is rather questioning with which priorities one is lamenting the mistreatment of animals. (This, jokingly, directed at New Zealanders, due to earlier skirmishes here.)


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## James_C (Feb 17, 2005)

Alex Salmond said:


> Mate I dont consider myself either Huggy ,feely,or even particularly touchy but the mistreatment of animals is a blight on all thinking humans apart that is from scavengers who will stick anything into their gobs without a care in the world "sustainable"dont make me laugh another word for you farm them however you want and ill eat them just dont make me look at them suffering and ill be fine,Pitiful.and this constant chasing after the Arab dollar by kowtowing to their halal mythology is enough to make you sick.


Most people around today would probably throw up if they witnessed how a cow is despatched in a UK slaughterhouse, as "humane" as it is, yet they will still eat meat. The general public simply do not want to know how their food has transformed from animal to plastic packet.
Eating beef is considered socially acceptable because cattle are not cuddly or perceived to be intelligent, and because there are enough cows to go around to satisfy demand without threatening their existence.
If there are enough whales to go round, then logically what issue is there with them being hunted? 
People use the argument that cows are farmed, and yes they are, but for example Cod is not, yet we still find it acceptable to suffocate them to death through fishing for them, simply because they are not deemed to be endangered.
If any animal/fish etc is being hunted to extinction then that is obviously unacceptable and the practice should cease forthwith. 
That applies not only to whales, but to cod, herring, mackerel, monkfish, haddock etc.


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## barrinoz (Oct 9, 2006)

We've gone way, way off track here. To equate cows with cod is,codswallop, really. I think you'll find the stocks of cod are rapidly diminishing, James. It's not the killing of the beasts that are a subject of concern and the point of this thread. It was/is the manner of their despatch. There's slaughtering and there's out and out cruelty. I'm a land-raised boy, so no touchy-feely tree-hugging here. Gouging out their eyes, breaking their legs and brutalising the animals is totally unacceptable and condoning it because we eat caged chickens/eggs is also unacceptable - to me, anyway.
Stein, this is what you get for messing with Kiwis!(Jester)
barrinoz.


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## Klaatu83 (Jan 22, 2009)

What about the transport of Australian livestock to other countries? I once had occasion to speak with some of the crew of a sheep ship docked in Iran. They told me they left Australia with 35,000 head of sheep and arrived with 28,000 still alive. The smell coming from the ship was absolutely appalling, and I saw trucks rolling away from the ship filled with dead sheep (apparently the Iranians accepted the dead ones as well as the live ones). It's always seemed to me that the only reason nothing has ever been said about those sort of ships is simply because most people in developed countries aren't even aware that it goes on. After all, Greenpeace and their ilk have done a whole lot to bring whaling to the attention of the general public, but unless you happen to have worked on ships operating "East of Suez", the chances are that you wouldn't even know that livestock are regularly transported on specialized and overcrowded ships.


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## spongebob (Dec 11, 2007)

Let's face it, death in any form other than peacefully due to old age is repugnant to anyone, any thing, be it human, animal or bird life and where loss of animal or bird life is necessary to provide gastronomic pleasure or to just sustain the lives of the human race the dispatch should be as painless as possible.
I have worked in a Freezing works for a couple of summer holiday periods and on the learners chain where one can witness the act of death to an animal every few seconds as sheep throats are cut and cattle put down with a stun bolt to the head. It is all instantaneous but the animals know what is happening by the smell of blood or fear or whatever senses they have and it shows in their anguished behaviour.
Just imagine ourselves standing in a penned queue while our kind were being put down, albeit in a reasonably quick death way!
Traditionally meat is a part of most human's diet and the least we can do is protest strongly about any undue pre death cruelty that heads this thread.

I recall a story about a battery type chicken farm growing young pullets for the table and the operator claimed the most tender delicate meat due to the humane way of killing.
He used to grade then into pens and night time roosts according to their market readiness and when in their prime he would walk along the roosts at night when the chickens showed little sign or fear of disturbance and would stroke each bird's neck with a razor edge affixed to a thumb stall on his hand thus cutting the jugular and allowing the chicken to bleed to a sleepy death without undue meat toughening terror!
It was better than other farmers of the time which used to stick the birds head first into a series of funnels with their heads sticking out the bottom and once enough were jammed into position along they would go with a pair of hedge shears and lop off their heads and leave to bleed!

It is all in the name of consumer demand

Bob


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## trotterdotpom (Apr 29, 2005)

Just in case anyone gets the wrong idea, none of those ships in the live sheep trade have ever been Australian manned.

There are regulations regarding the humane carriage of the animals and several of the ships have been banned when cases of non-compliance have come to light. How effective that is, I wouldn't know. It probably isn't too hard to change ownership, flag, name etc - can't escape the facts of life.

John T


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## James_C (Feb 17, 2005)

barrinoz said:


> We've gone way, way off track here. To equate cows with cod is,codswallop, really.


The point I was making is that the human race will quite happily kill animals in large numbers for our own consumption, both of the farmed (cows) and non farmed (cod) variety, simply because there is a socially acceptable demand. 
Ergo to use the argument that because something is wild and not intensively farmed, therefore it should not be harvested, is a logical non starter.



> I think you'll find the stocks of cod are rapidly diminishing, James.


Well that most certainly seems to be a matter of opinion at the moment. But if it makes things easier, how about we stop referring to cod and refer to Haddock or Monkfish instead - the same principle still applies.


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## trotterdotpom (Apr 29, 2005)

Plenty of fish in the sea ..... Climate Change isn't happening and if it is, it's nothing to do with us .... peak oil is a load of rubbish .... 

I've read all this heartening news and more on SN ... how come my glass is three quarters empty?

John T


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## barrinoz (Oct 9, 2006)

James_C said:


> Ergo to use the argument that because something is wild and not intensively farmed, therefore it should not be harvested, is a logical non starter. QUOTE]
> 
> I agree. But you'll 'harvest' that resource to extinction, so pretty damn pointless with a predictable conclusion. You're being a tad selective in quoting me. I did make the distinction between slaughter and cruelty. Cod, haddock, monkfish. All depleting, I'm led to believe.
> barrinoz.


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## Binnacle (Jul 22, 2005)

*Australian Public Revulsion - Beef Sales Down*

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-13692211


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## Mike S (Dec 27, 2005)

On my first voyage to sea we berthed at the Queensland Abbatoirs in Brisbane. The smell was shall we say interesting!
As apprentices on the good ship Durham we were given the "Grand Tour" of the abbatoir.
I did not eat meat for three years................
Just the smell of a roast turned my stomach.
I have never been so fit since!
I have never been so slim since!
If you want to stop the people eating meat take them around an abbatoir. The sight of a cow been slit from neck to crop while hanging by its rear legs has a certain poignant feeling about it.
The sight of a bloke walking along with cow stomachs blown up like balloons on the end of a stick is like something out of Monty Python.
It is however the smell...........the all pervading stench of steam and hot blood and offal.
Have you had enough yet...................(EEK)


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## Alex Salmond (Mar 7, 2011)

Mike S said:


> On my first voyage to sea we berthed at the Queensland Abbatoirs in Brisbane. The smell was shall we say interesting!
> As apprentices on the good ship Durham we were given the "Grand Tour" of the abbatoir.
> I did not eat meat for three years................
> Just the smell of a roast turned my stomach.
> ...


Yes Thank you Mike quite enough my boy has recently decided he wants to be a Vegan and good on him ,I think the kids today are more conscious about things than we were ,but im trying I havent ate bacon for a few years now since watching a program here by a local comedian Mike King who ironically for years was the face on TV off the pork industry until they made the mistake of taking him around a pig farm... hes a man on a mission now the experience horrified him (and me) so ive all but given up meat ,my boy started to get into me about coffee too but got short shrift on that one when i paraphrased poor old doddery Charlton Heston "Theyll have to prise my coffee cup from my cold dead hand"that showed him eh!


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