# Wheelhouse or bridge.



## John Dryden

This might have been done to death on SN already but was surprised looking in the gallery earlier today to see wheelhouse rather than bridge mentioned in a reply.I started off with wheelhouse when I went to sea but it soon became bridge.
So where did the term bridge originate?


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## A.D.FROST

The wheel house is on the Bridge deck (Bridge for short)I assume from sail to steam after the wheel was boxed in and the wings form a bridge.


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## chadburn

When you look at some of the old photo's of Merchant Vessel's the Wheelhouse contained the ships wheel and the Bridge was where the D.O's stood, at some time the Bridge "dropped" into the Wheelhouse and the D.O's mixed with the Crew, however in the Grey Navy the Navigation Bridge was seperate from where the ship's wheel is located even on the little "Ton Class".


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## Barrie Youde

Surely they are two different things? 

On early steamers, particularly paddlers, there was a bridge- between the paddles - with no wheel house. 

A wheelhouse was then placed, usually, on the bridge. Some paddlers survived but most did not. The bridge remained, in any event, with or without a wheelhouse.

Today, the wheelhouse commonly occupies the whole of the bridge.

There are of course variations but, in general terms, isn't that about it?


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## joebuckham

originally the walkway between the paddle boxes on power driven vessels, and when screw driven vessels came on the scene the bridge remained because of the better view of what was going on. the wheelhouse came later placed on the bridge and as the name implies protected the wheel, wheelman and oow,


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## surfaceblow

On American Side Wheel Paddle Vessels a bridge was installed across the two water boxes of the side paddles. The original purpose of the bridge was to provide access for the engineers to inspect the paddles. The Captain's and Mate's started to use the raised platform due to better view and did not have the water box block their side views. The Wheelhouse was still aft from the bridge because the rudder was still being controlled by rope or chain. Once reliable remote control of the rudder was developed the wheelhouse and bridge was combined. Some where along the way the Pilot House was combined with the Wheelhouse and Bridge. 

Joe


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## John Briggs

From what I remember the bridge consisted of , wheelhouse, chart room, wings and if you wish, monkey island.


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## John Dryden

I see that JB but is this a bridge too?
http://www.shipsnostalgia.com/galle...0/title/john-h-field-wear-hopper-no-3/cat/501


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## joebuckham

John Briggs said:


> From what I remember the bridge consisted of , wheelhouse, chart room, wings and if you wish, monkey island.


they were all built on the bridge


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## joebuckham

John Dryden said:


> I see that JB but is this a bridge too?
> http://www.shipsnostalgia.com/galle...0/title/john-h-field-wear-hopper-no-3/cat/501


that is a wheel house built on the bridge


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## John Dryden

*Logic*



joebuckham said:


> that is a wheel house built on the bridge


Sometimes ,Joe, your logic has me beat..still none the wiser!


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## John Briggs

John,
That could certainly be termed the wheelhouse or bridge. The term bridge encompasses everything up there at the conning position.
You can say bridge and everything is included or you can say wheelhouse and that is a specific part of the bridge.
Hope you are now a bit wiser!


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## Cisco

So what about warships where what I would call the bridge was at least on deck above the wheelhouse if not more?


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## joebuckham

hi john, your thread started with a query about the origin of the word bridge not what it has evolved into.of course the present day bridge bears no resemblance to what is was when the steam men started conning the ship from midships on a 'bridge' built between two paddle boxes and so did some of the sailing men who realising the advantage of a more midship position for the conning of the ship and who had a midship housing incorporating the ' bridge', but no paddle boxes, and accommodation including, would you believe it, a 'focsle' for the po's,


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## NoR

chadburn said:


> "..........however in the Grey Navy the Navigation Bridge was seperate from where the ship's wheel is located even on the little "Ton Class".


I have always thought that was a pretty dumb idea. Maybe that's why the grey funnel line keeps running into things.


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## NoR

*Fully enclosed bridges.*

I sailed on a couple of vessels with fully enclosed bridges, didn't like it as I preferred to spend time outside in the good weather and to be able to get outside for a better look under any cir***stances.

IMHO The best arrangement was where the wheelhouse was set back a little on the bridge deck so you had absolutely free access side to side, and it was easy to clean the windows - I only sailed on one ship like this.


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## Stephen J. Card

John Dryden said:


> I see that JB but is this a bridge too?
> http://www.shipsnostalgia.com/galle...0/title/john-h-field-wear-hopper-no-3/cat/501




What is most interesting about this wheelhouse is that the wheel is 'aft facing' ie the helmsman stands in front or to the side of the wheel. Great idea in a small wheelhouse where the wheel can be a real nuisance and get in the way when you are trying to steer, navigate and do a hundred other tasks at the same time!


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## Varley

Stephen, maybe ergonomically superior as you say - your expertise. However I suspect it was still the "hundred other tasks" that was the real hazard, as now!


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## Barrie Youde

#16

NoR

Amen to your second paragraph. All the steam pilot-cutters at Liverpool (except the last one) had that arrangement and it had much to commend it!

Am baffled as to why such a beneficial arrangement was simply chucked away in later designs.


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## NoR

Barrie Youde said:


> #16
> Am baffled as to why such a beneficial arrangement was simply chucked away in later designs.


Because the people in charge of designing stuff usually don't ask those who actually have to use it .


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## Barrie Youde

#20

Yup!


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## Cisco

NoR said:


> Because the people in charge of designing stuff usually don't ask those who actually have to use it .


People who design cars travel in cars every day, people who design aircraft travel in them quite frequently... people who design ships rarely if ever go to sea in them...


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## 5036

Originally Posted by chadburn 
"..........however in the Grey Navy the Navigation Bridge was seperate from where the ship's wheel is located even on the little "Ton Class".



NoR said:


> I have always thought that was a pretty dumb idea. Maybe that's why the grey funnel line keeps running into things.


The con on most fighting naval vessels was in an enclosed separate housing which I believe that was to protect the helmsman from incoming fire as it was reckoned he was quite important.


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## Union Jack

*People who design cars travel in cars every day, people who design aircraft travel in them quite frequently... people who design ships rarely if ever go to sea in them .... *

You can say that again, Cisco. I'll never forget showing a senior marine architect from the Royal Corps of Naval Constructors round a nuclear submarine. He asked if he could see a particular highly classified compartment and, once I had established that he had the necessary security clearance, I duly escorted him there. He showed such great enthusiasm that I had to ask if he had a special interest in it. "Yes", he said, "I designed this compartment, but it's the first time I've seen it."

*I have always thought that was a pretty dumb idea. Maybe that's why the grey funnel line keeps running into things. *

Now, now, NoR - I wonder when was the last time that happened, NOTTINGHAM excepted since she hit an underwater obstruction. 

In any case, I'm sure you appreciate perfectly well that the reason for this was far from dumb, but simply to ensure that, in the event that the bridge was put out of action for any reason such as enemy action or a fire, a warship could still be safely conned from the secondary steering position via a wheelhouse, or forward steering position, located one or more decks safely below 

That said, all recent HM surface ships have their steering controlled directly on the bridge, so you should be happy now!(*))

Jack


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## chadburn

In regard's to Paddler's which were usually passenger carrying the platform on top of the paddle boxes allowed passenger's (in particular the Ladies) to disembark at another level beside's Deck Level depending on the tide.
The Grey Navy alway's had the reasoning that having the Deck Watchkeeper's in an enclosed wheelhouse would interfere with their vision ability and stuck with the open Navigation Bridge. This view changed when the first Nuclear Bomb was exploded by the Russiain's and the open Navigation Bridge was enclosed as an NBC measure in the 1950's. The design appear's to have been done by the same man whether it was on the old Sheffield or a Ton Class!!


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## A.D.FROST

Cisco said:


> People who design cars travel in cars every day, people who design aircraft travel in them quite frequently... people who design ships rarely if ever go to sea in them...


What about Space Ships (never left anybody on the moon yet?)(Pint)


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## E.Martin

As far as I remember it was wheelhouse on fishing boats and coasters but always bridge deep water.


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## A.D.FROST

Flying Bridge/Docking bridge aft,wheel but no housing.


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## Robert Bush

An arrangement I liked but have only seen on two large tankers had the Engine control and monitoring arrangement in or on the Bridge/Wheelhouse. This brought the mates and engineers together and allowed each group to have a better idea of their respective problems. 

At the after end of this space was a large room with coffee/tea etc plus files and drawings a large table and comfortable chairs.

Forward and amidships was a fold down table large enough to take an admiralty chart equipped with a blue light. No going behind a curtain necessary. great for port entry.

Most of the engineers and nearly all the mates liked this arrangement. It also combined cargo and pump control with TV monitors.

I liked it especially as the A/C worked and the coffee was good.

There was a railed walkaround for cleaning the bridge windows and good sunscreens.

The wing gyro repeaters were well placed and the nav equipment first class.

Good well kept ship with good grub and accom. Good people too.


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## John Dryden

Strangely enough Robert,I was thinking about the details of turning the rudder in the said wheel house without the benefit of tech.ER was just there in my day so we took it for granted .I bet it,s the same now!


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## Robert Bush

*yours*

Thanks John,

 Probably shipmanagers will be doing everything by remote control from their offices in a few more years. Wish them luck.


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## vasco

My definition:;

A wheelhouse had a chartroom attached.

A Bridge has a chartroom in it.


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## spongebob

I would have thought that the name was relative to the ship size. 
A trawler, a tug, or the like might have a wheelhouse while a bigger ship with the conning point mounted high in the superstructure would earn or suit the name of Bridge.

bob


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## chadburn

I think you have to go back to it's full title of "Navigation Bridge" where the Navigation Officer's held Court and it was certainly the opinion for many year's that being in an enclosed structure was not good for 360 Deg navigational purpose's. The Wheelhouse was were the ship's wheel was located and on Merchant Vessel usually on the level below, on the Grey Funnel it could be a number of Deck's below. With the coming of improved Navigation System's Navigation Officer's went undercover and the old Navigation Bridge became the "Monkey Bridge" although the R.N. still believed strongly in the open Navigation Bridge concept up till the late 1950's, it was only the concern's about Nuclear Bomb fallout that they finally went undercover otherwise they would still be out in the open. As far as Bridge Control is concerned, well, when both the M.N. and the R.N. tried the "Evolution" concept they both found that it was easier to train Engineer's to Navigate than it was to train Navigation Officer's Marine Engineering.


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## Fred Field

NoR said:


> I have always thought that was a pretty dumb idea. Maybe that's why the grey funnel line keeps running into things.


I was told, many years ago, shortly after the Ark grounded, that the Grey Funnel Mob did it that way to give some protection to the guy actually turning the wheel. I understand that in the 'Capital Ships' the wheel house was 'way down' together with the telephone exchange.


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