# Titanic



## tom e kelso (May 1, 2005)

Reading the (recently?) published book "TITANIC-The real story of the construction of the world's most famous ship" written by Anton Gill, the author refers to the ship having two bower anchors, one port and the other starboard, each weighing just over 7.75 tons.He then goes on to describe her also being equipped with a "central" anchor, weighing 15.75 tons!, which would have been hoisted overside by a heavy-duty davit. This central anchor would , the author quotes, be attached to a wire hawser, 2.7 inches in diameter, 175 fathoms long. This wire would have been led through a hawsepipe situated in the stem(bar).

1. No photos that I have seen show this anchor (though it could have been stowed on deck under the aforesaid davit.)

2. Photos show the "hawsepipe on the stem bar to be more just a fairlead, similar to that often fitted for mooring to buoy

3. Plans seem to indicate that the bower anchors are worked by 2 cable=lifters rather than a windlass

4. My own experience of working heavy wires was confined to occasionally completing alongside mooring (typhoon/cyclone areas) by using the "insurance wire". This was always a time consuming operation using the 4 inch cir***ference wire, and while I may be wrong, I don't remember this wire being put on the windlass drum, but rather hauled tight to the "bits" by a messenger. My mind boggles at the thought of tackling the job of coming to anchor with a wire of 8.5 inches cir***ference. and the consequent outboard wire weight, and turning same up on the bits!.

5. I find the provision of such a large anchor, when what are obviously the working (bower) anchors are half the weight, and as such will have been of a specified weight by Lloyds, very puzzling.

6. This particular book contains a considerable amount of semi-technical information, with details and dimensions variously included, such that I have no reason to doubt the above details.

However, I would be interested in comments from other SN members, including TITANIC "enthusiasts", as to why such an anchor and wire was shipped, and how the anchoring procedure might have been performed when using it

Tom


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## billyboy (Jul 6, 2005)

Over to Tmac i think on this one


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## Duncan112 (Dec 28, 2006)

Central anchor visible here

http://www.kval.com/news/tech/99322269.html

But the davit over the anchor in contemporary photographs does not look man enough to lift a 15 ton anchor and associated wire.


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## Tmac1720 (Jun 24, 2005)

Hope this helps answer your question regarding the anchor arrangement. The central bower anchor could be attached to a steel hawser which had a breaking strain of 290 tons. Each side anchor weighed just under 8 tons (7 tons 19 cwt) otherwise all the dimensions you quote are correct. The anchor windlass gear was provided by Napier Brothers Ltd of Glasgow and are driven by individual engines. One of these engines also drives a large drum through a worm gear and which is located at the extreme forward end of the stem opposite the central opening which can be seen. This drum was grooved to accept the wire cable of the centre anchor when required for operation. The usual clutch and brake arrangements were provided to the windlass gear. A heavy duty crane was installed on the centre line on the forecastle deck for handling the centre anchor which was located in a well immediately behind the stem. The windlass gear engines were steam powered and separate engines were provided to operate the mooring lines.


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## tom e kelso (May 1, 2005)

Many thanks Tmac1720 and Duncan112.

I have located the winch that you mentioned,Tmac, right for'd on C deck (Shelter Deck). It must have been a massive piece of machinery to have stowed 175 fathoms of 8.5 inch cir***ference (2.7 inch dia) wire on its barrel. Mooring winches on present day, Cape-size bulkers, which are also massive and could not have fitted so far forward in TITANIC, , in my ken,I seem to remember, only accommodated 90 fathoms of 10"(circ) hawsers, and 4 inch (circ) mooring wires. (I have no experience of the mooring/anchor handling gear on the specialist vessels attending oil-drills)

I thought the same thing, Duncan about the crane/davit about its apparent ability to cope with the anchor.

I suppose this 3rd anchor complied with the then requirement to carry a spare bower, but why, twice as big as the working anchors? If dragging in foul weather/ or lost anchor, it would have taken too long to lift outboard and walk back. I can't imagine letting such a size wire run free!

While on the subject of anchors, in the book that I mentioned above,there is a photograph, overlooking the after decks of the brand new OLYMPIC with the TITANIC still on H & W stocks in the background. Adjacent to the H & W yard there is a passenger ship lying at a fitting out wharf. From the dates of OLYMPIC's completion, I have identified this ship as the B I ship EGRA (my old Company) then almost completed by Workman Clark. Coincidentally, I have a postcard photo of EGRA steaming down the Hooghly, showing quite clearly , outboard of her port bow, a stock anchor in the "catted" position ! As far as I know this was the last BI ship to have stock bowers, and I am now awaiting word from a slightly senior contemporary who was sailing on her in her last year (1949) as to whether she retained this anchor arrangement to the end.

Tom


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## Scurdie (Aug 6, 2009)

The book "The Discovery of the Titanic" by Robert D. Ballard has a composite photograph on pp 123-125 which clearly shows the centre stock-type anchor stowed in a well right at the bow, its crown facing aft, as also in the link given above. While size is very hard to estimate from these photographs, it does not look to me as big as the side bower anchors, and I agree with Duncan112's comment that the crane does not look up to lifting 15 tons; I certainly wouldn't like to handle a 15-ton anchor with it on the bow of a pitching and rolling ship! It all makes me speculate whether maybe a "1" has crept in front of the weight, but some expert may know whether the weight is really correct.


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## Tmac1720 (Jun 24, 2005)

The "spare" anchor was indeed 15 tons and the crane was designed by Harland and Bluff to lift it..... honest (LOL)


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## tom e kelso (May 1, 2005)

Scurdie,

With respect, Duncan112's reference to the anchor to be seen on the sunken TITANIC is a stockless anchor. That said,. taking into account perspective and the adjacent rails, I cannot see this particular anchor weighting 15+ tons
and it might just be possible as is suggested, that this a misquoted weight in the various tomes that have joined the TITANIC "band wagon", vide, the numerous repeated photographs and other "facts", many of which are quoted by "nautical ignorami". While I assumed from photographs that if the associated crane/davit had a "solid" topping lift (à la contemporary Alfred Holt usage) this would not have plumbed this anchor, perhaps it had a conventional topping lift, but it then would then have to be "topped" almost to the vertical to plumb the said anchor. Did the crane/davit perhaps plumb a small hatch to forepeak stores instead? After all, in later/latter days, the required third/spare anchor was in numerous, if not most cases, outwith the reach of ship's lifting gear.

Returning to my earlier comments about the quoted very large wire provided presumably for use with this anchor, I, personally, cannot see a winch drum"accommodating" 195 fathoms of 8.5 cir***ference (2.7 dia) wire in the underdeck space in the Shelter (C) deck) so far forward......perhaps the size of this wire is misquoted.
As for your comments re handling such an anchor wire and joining shackle in what presumably would be rather desperate cir***stances, I wholeheartedly agree.

Finally, since presumably, Lloyds assess the appropriate size of the required anchors, the provision of a spare , twice the size of the bowers, to me, is inexplicable

Tom

PS: Re my earlier reference to EGRA (1911) my correspondent who sailed on the ship in 1949, confirms that she then still had a a "stock" anchor !


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## tom e kelso (May 1, 2005)

Tmac1720

Referring to the printed extract you have exhibited in the Gallery Section today, are you sure that this an extract from the official "specification"? 

To me it reads like a description.

A number , if not most of the (BI) and two P & O ships I sailed on, had bound copies of the Hull and Outfit Specifications "on file" in the "Mate's" office, as I presume, were copies of the Machinery Specifications, so filed with the Chief Engineer Officer. The wording in these specifications was in the form of a detailed ""instruction" as to what was required by the shipowner to be provided by the shipbuilder as part of the order contract. Never in the form of what was already fitted!

I find it very difficult to accept the logic quoted for the purpose of the "central" anchor being provided, and this in itself is strange for a shipowner to "explain the reason for his requirements" . I wonder if the White Star Chief Marine Superintendent/Nautical Advisor would stipulate such a reason for the provision of a fairlead on the stem. My personal opinion is that the 8" cir***ference wire was, what was commonly known as the "insurance wire", and the provision of the steam driven winch (pistons of which are visible on the GA plans....rather than worm gear from the cable-lifter/capstans). I would suggest that anyone who has experience of mooring using even a 4" cir***ference, "insurance" wire, would appreciate such an arrangement. Which begs the question, was there such a wire/winch at the after mooring station?

Also, had White Star finally deserted Liverpool for Southampton at this time (1912) having seen pics of Mauritania/Lusitania apparently lying to a buoy midstream off Liverpool Landing Stage. If White Star had a contingency plan,, the provision of the wire/hawsepipe arrangement would have avoided the labour of hanging off a bower anchor with appreciable time-saving..

Finally, back to the quoted" specification". Can any reader prove, one way or the other, that TITANIC (or OLYMPIC/BRITANNIC) had a "keelbar""! If not, as I suspect, then the whole "specification" is suspect, (to me, at least!)

Tom.



Tom


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## John Dryden (Sep 26, 2009)

If it was a spare anchor then surely it was there to be used when the other two were not holding the ship in an anchorage or had been lost?


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## tom e kelso (May 1, 2005)

John,

I think there is little doubt that the requirement that a spare anchor was part of the ship's outfit, was provision for replacing a lost anchor.....such being not handily available "off the shelf " in many parts of the world! Connecting such a spare anchor, in many cases could not have been handled by the ship's gear, particularly tankers and bulkers, but I also think of two vessels on which I sailed (KENYA and NEVASA) where the spare anchor was stowed in a vertical position against the bulkhead at the break of the fo'c'sle ......No.1 derricks would have been virtually horizontal to plumb this stow, and in any case, if my memory serves me correctly, the spare anchor, in both cases exceeded the 5 ton SWL. of the derricks. (To shut one's eye to such a SWL restriction with a horizontal derrick would I think have brought the whole caboodle down) .... Incidentally, the BI had an instruction that the spare anchor had to be "freed" every 6 months....this was done with two wire runners secured to the anchor shackle led from winches thus rocking the stalk while the crown remained secured in its seat.
A similar analogy, was the provision of the spare propeller, in many ships stowed atop, or against the poop house outwith the reach of the derricks! A shore or floating crane would be necessary for such a job, unless of course a "skyhook" could be found.

As for using the spare anchor to augment two anchors with the ship dragging, it reminds me of the (apocriphal) story where a candidate was being orally examined for his ticket. Asked what he would do if on an anchored vessel, the wind increased and the vessel started to drag, he answered, "put out another anchor" The BOT examiner then asked what action the candidate would carry out , if the wind further increased and the ship continued to drag. The latter replied "put out another anchor! And so on, until the examiner asked "Where are you getting all these anchors?" to which the candidate is supposed to have replied "From the same place as you are getting all the wind!" End of story (and candidate!)

Tom


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## joebuckham (Apr 1, 2005)

http://www.titanic-theshipmagnificent.com/TitanicRiggingPlan/

this site claims to be using the original h&w plans and confirm size of spare anchor, anchors fitted as ships equipment and shows a substantial crane / davit


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## Tmac1720 (Jun 24, 2005)

Tom, the extract I posted was from the official White Star technical publication announcing the entry into service and outlining the design of the Olympic class vessels. Certainly it was NOT the building specification which was produced by Harland and Wolff and formed part of the contract. The White Star do***ent was intended for the general public and so the wording reflects this. Of course if you wish to continue querying White Star and Harland and Wolff that is entirely up to you, I was simply attempting to be helpful in providing you with some relevant information.


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## tom e kelso (May 1, 2005)

To Tmac and all others who have contributed to this "debate", my thanks. It seems that I shall have to be satisfied that the very large (8"+ circ) wire hawser provided was for "anchoring purposes, as well as for "towing"...this latter description from the rigging plan. So it seems that this wire was in fact the "insurance wire", which from various other references, has, along with a similar wire provision aft, was, and maybe still is, a requirement (Lloyds?) for "towing".
It wonder whether, during the lifetime of OLYMPIC and BRITANNIC, the central anchor was ever lifted by the anchor davit/crane and "insurance" wire buckled on.....I would imagine the air would be pretty blue from the sailor suspended overside in a bosun's chair trying to manipulate a supra-large joining shackle and its pin!!! I have also learned when a "specification" is not a specification.
Anyway, my best wishes for the New Year to you all

Tom


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## surfaceblow (Jan 16, 2008)

tom e kelso said:


> To Tmac and all others who have contributed to this "debate", my thanks. It seems that I shall have to be satisfied that the very large (8"+ circ) wire hawser provided was for "anchoring purposes, as well as for "towing"...this latter description from the rigging plan. So it seems that this wire was in fact the "insurance wire", which from various other references, has, along with a similar wire provision aft, was, and maybe still is, a requirement (Lloyds?) for "towing".
> It wonder whether, during the lifetime of OLYMPIC and BRITANNIC, the central anchor was ever lifted by the anchor davit/crane and "insurance" wire buckled on.....I would imagine the air would be pretty blue from the sailor suspended over-side in a bosun's chair trying to manipulate a supra-large joining shackle and its pin!!! I have also learned when a "specification" is not a specification.
> Anyway, my best wishes for the New Year to you all
> 
> Tom


The "insurance wire"s still a requirement. On tankers the wires put on bits and left hanging over the side in port so the ship can be pulled off the dock in case of an emergency at the oil terminal. 

From experience the shackle and pin is put on while it is on the deck or barge. The wire or chain is pass through the opening placed back aboard shackled and picked up and then lowered. If a barge is used then the anchor and its fittings are placed on the barge and the chain is lowered down to the barge. You just have to remember to record the numbers on the anchor and fittings for the classification societies before connecting them. It's easier to turn them over and use a power brush to read the serial numbers and find the stamp of approval.

Joe


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## 6639 (Apr 20, 2006)

tom, have a look here and the subsidiary videos.they might be of interest to you.
neil

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KuoqgqqvnMI


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## dom (Feb 10, 2006)

*dom*

The "insurance wire"s still a requirement. On tankers the wires put on bits and left hanging over the side in port so the ship can be pulled off the dock in case of an emergency at the oil terminal. 

the Isle of Grain tie up used the insurance wire as a mooring line,the wire hung over the side was known as a fire wire,well on any BP ships i was on


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## tom e kelso (May 1, 2005)

nhp651

Many thanks for the lead. I have seen some "stills" from event in publications but unfortunately didn't manage to follow the series on TV.

Tom


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## tom e kelso (May 1, 2005)

dom

Thanks. Did the Isle of Grain berth have winches for for hauling ashore the "insurance wire" when mooring, or did you have to heave it to the shore bollard by a wire runner from the ship?. Perhaps modern day insurance wires are more flexible than the 4" circ "FSWR" of my day! I note that from the TITANIC Rigging Plan the wire in question is described as GWR, presumably meaning Galvanised Wire Rope.

Having sailed with BP, you might be interested in an occasion where in CHANTALA, I (and 30 other cadets) felt cheated out of untold riches!. Homeward bound, off the northern coast of Portugal, a radio message from P&O/BI in London, instructed us to give towage assistance to DEVANHA or DONGOLA (I forget which) which had been in collision in the Villano/Finisterre area. As we sped north, already mentally spending our potential salvage money, we laboured, (manhandling, mostly with chain hooks) moving 2 shackles of anchor cable from the the fo'c'slehead to the poop in "textbook" preparation for towing. I think we were within an hour of arrival, when another radio message was received that arrangements had been changed and a BTC (as it then was) tanker, already on the scene, would carry out the tow to La Curana. Much chagrin in the half-deck!
We arrived and "stood by" for a an hour or two watching the connecting operation. Almost certainly the job was transferred to BTC because the tanker in question was fitted with a purpose-made towing winch aft. Apparently, as well as having the company's own tugs based at Abadan, so-fitted tankers of that particular class occasionally towed barges from Abadan to Bandar Abbas, and other Gulf ports.

There is no record of this August 1950 casualty in Rabson's P &O Fleet History, but the ship in question was lucky to survive. In fog, a large tanker had ran into the cargo ship in way of No.3 hold (I seem to remember the Chief Steward was killed in his cabin). The structure was massively open from (below the) water level to the boat deck. with hundreds of teachests awash in the vicinity Luckily, the ship, originally a Canadian-built Fort, had its No.3 lower hold divided by a longitudinal bulkhead on the centre-line, and this undoubtably saved the vessel..

Tom


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## david freeman (Jan 26, 2006)

*Titanic 'Run Crew'*

Are any of you officianardos' out there aware of any information as to the where and when, and whatever happened to the names lists held by H&W or White Star, with regards to the total named persons on board the TITANIC as she completed builders trials at H&W, the run to Southampton and the owners acceptance Trails/shake down off Southampton before the fatal voyage to COBH and New York.
I suspect the list will comprise of pool men, company men, and workers and reps from H&W during the period I am asking about?
Any ideas any help Please. I have trawled the TITANIC WEB site but it is alledged these record have been lost?
I assume when the vessel sailed out of Southampton she would have had to have some form of official articles, as on her fatal voyage? but alas no info available, only that on the TITANIC WEb site(Wave).


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## surfaceblow (Jan 16, 2008)

Did you try the link below ?

http://www.encyclopedia-titanica.org/titanic-delivery-trip-crew/

Joe


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## tom e kelso (May 1, 2005)

Surfacebelow,

In truth, not being really overly interested in the demise of TITANIC, or more particularly, the various controversies which followed, I had a look at the link you indicated, including that of those who sailed from Belfast to Southampton. There I found, as expected, the name David Blair, who sailed from Belfast to Southampton as Second Officer, only to be there, given a "pierhead jump" (to, I think, TEUTONIC) when displaced by Lightoller who, himself had to step down, on the last-minute appointment of Wilde, then C/O OLYMPIC, vice Murdoch, the in***bent C/O. This morale-busting move by the White Star management, at least ensured Blair's onward survival.

About 20 years ago, a friend of mine, the late Miss Betty Reid,had a lifelong friend who was the sister of David Blair, and possessed the TITANIC's binocular box key, a BOT and a Lloyds medal awarded to Blair (for a man-overboard episode in 1913, when 1/0 MAJESTIC), together with a TITANIC postcard posted by Blair in Southampton advising his parents of his transfer out of TITANIC. Both David Blair's sister and Miss Reid, both by then very elderly (and now deceased) were loyal supporters of the Sailors' Society, then known as the British & International Sailors' Society (formerly The British Sailors' Society) and knowing of my connection to this Society I was asked to pass the aforesaid David Blair ephemera together with other mementos of Blair's post-White Star career, to the Society . These gifts were "unrestricted" and the key, postcard and medals were subsequently auctioned several years ago, realising, if I remember correctly, around £70,000 for the Society's funds.

It might be worthwhile mentioning that David Blair, when later, during WW1, as (RNR)Navigator of OCEANIC, by then an AMC , stranded off the Shetland ( or Orkney ?) Isles. Blair was off-watch at the time yet was made an utter scapegoat for the stranding, which politics in the resulting court martial, covered up the animosity and order-countermanding which reigned between the Commanding Officer (RN) and his "deputy" the former master, but RNR!... a story in its own right! After WW!, Blair had the conviction that he had no future with White Star, and followed a varying career involving command of an auxiliary barquentine (ST GEORGE) carrying out scientific research in the South Pacific, and later with a ship agency company in Panama

Incidentally, 1. I understand that , for a year or two after TITANIC's loss, there followed a certain amount of animosity between Lightoller and Blair over the absence of the "key", but this was eventually "patched up". 
2. I also understand, via Miss Reid, that the key was inadvertently oncarried by David Blair, in his reefer jacket pocket when he was given very short notice of his transfer (I'm sure other SN folk have been given similar short notice to pack their bags and move!...I certainly have!)

Tom


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## surfaceblow (Jan 16, 2008)

My interest in the Titanic started as a boy reading A Night to remember for a school assignment. And later it was the stability part of my Marine Engineering classes. It wasn't until I had a problem with the high sulfur steel similar to that was used in the building of the Titanic became an issue on a ship I was on that I started to read more on the Titanic disaster. 

About the same time I was Chief Engineer on a T 2 tanker which was developing hull cracks there was a SNAME paper out describing the material properties steel of the Titanic and the effects of cold water induced hull stress related cracking. I did have a few places in the hull where cracks developed in the riveted areas like on the Titanic. The majority of the cracking was in the older stern section of the ship in the Steering Gear Room were whole sections of welded plates fractured in the welds leaving two to three inch gaps that were two to four feet long where the welds broke. For a temporary measure we welded pad eyes to the deck and fitting chain falls to close the gaps and drilled holes at the ends of the cracks. 

Thank you for human side of the story. 


Joe


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## Stephen J. Card (Nov 5, 2006)

tom e kelso said:


> It wonder whether, during the lifetime of OLYMPIC and BRITANNIC, the central anchor was ever lifted by the anchor davit/crane and "insurance" wire buckled on.....I would imagine the air would be pretty blue from the sailor suspended overside in a bosun's chair trying to manipulate a supra-large joining shackle and its pin!!! I have also learned when a "specification" is not a specification.
> Anyway, my best wishes for the New Year to you all
> 
> Tom


Tom,

I have found a couple of photos of OLYMPIC that clearly show the anchor davit 'in use'..... plus a ladder over the side to the starboard anchor and what appears to be a wire running from the centline hawsepipe. The ship was at Mudros during the Great War. No idea what they were up to though.

Looking at AQUITANIA... she was provided with two bower anchors in their respective port and starboard hawse pipes. In addition the ship waas fitted with an additional hawse pipe on each side of the bow. On the enclosed moorning deck there was a full windlass with enough cable to run out and shackle onto her own dedicated mooring in the Mersey. 

Perhaps the spare anchor and insurance wire was White Star's own version of having a safe mooring.

In one volume I checked today, the weight of TITANIC's spare anchor was given as being 50.5 TONS.... and the length of each link in her anchor cables as being... "the length of a grown man'!!!!!

I'm not convinced that the spare anchor on TITANIC's foredeck was 15 tons. It looks to be the same size as the fitted bow anchors... certainly not twice the size. Photoss of the anchor davit show a substantial piece of equipment. Certainly the 8 ton bow anchors could have been handled... and perhaps the spare... even up to 15 tons.

Stephen


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## tom e kelso (May 1, 2005)

Thanks, Stephen. A lot of very interesting observations. I still have problems as to why a 3rd anchor (spare?) being twice the weight of the working bowers, and the "unhandiness" of connecting an 8" pretty inflexible insurance wire to same ....you wouldn't need to be in a hurry! Anyway, I've enjoyed the reaction.

I have also much enjoyed looking at your SN "gallery", very nostalgic, particularly, Aquitania with the Jeannie Deans, Dwarka at Boat Drill... my first ship....(joined 29/6/47 at the builder's yard), and Atlantique, which as a small boy I remember seeing from the Gourock-bound train which passed very close to the burnt-out hulk then being demolished 

Tom


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## Stephen J. Card (Nov 5, 2006)

tom e kelso said:


> Thanks, Stephen. A lot of very interesting observations. I still have problems as to why a 3rd anchor (spare?) being twice the weight of the working bowers, and the "unhandiness" of connecting an 8" pretty inflexible insurance wire to same ....you wouldn't need to be in a hurry! Anyway, I've enjoyed the reaction.
> 
> I have also much enjoyed looking at your SN "gallery", very nostalgic, particularly, Aquitania with the Jeannie Deans, Dwarka at Boat Drill... my first ship....(joined 29/6/47 at the builder's yard), and Atlantique, which as a small boy I remember seeing from the Gourock-bound train which passed very close to the burnt-out hulk then being demolished
> 
> ...


Thanks your reply.

More on this subject. I don't think the spare anchor was double the weight of the other two bow anchors. It was simply another exactly the same... and stowed on board as a spare... as almost every other ship has. If it were different specs it would surely not fit in either of the side hawse pipes so there would be little point in having it as a spare. 

The so called insurance wire was just that. On its own winch drum... and ready to be used for TOWING. Relatively simple task to bring a messenger on board from a tug or towing vessel... lead through the stem hawse pipe.... not a hawse pipe but a centreline fairlead... make fast and pull out the wire ... either with winch break off or walked out under power. 

I just don't see any point in connecting up such a wire to an large anchor. If you have lost bother anchors the exercise of putting out the spare on the end of a wire would be a waste of time! Better head for the boats! A relatively short length of 8 in wire... with a 15 ton anchor wouldn't hold even a small ship. The holding strength of an anchor depends on the scope of the cable.

Also some confusion here about insurance wires. Such wire is usually on board for towing purposes in event of a major breakdown. The wires put out fore and aft when a vessel is alongside are usually just a mooring wire hanging overside in the event a tug has to pull the vessel off the quay in event of fire etc. Insurance wires would not be used for that purpose.

Does anyone remember the SMIT TOWING BRACKET? Had it fitted on board only one vessel... a VLCC. Very simple to connect up. Bring the tugs wire on board and slip the eye into the bracket and slide the pin accross. Developed by L. Smit and Co back in the mid 1960s..


Glad the paintings bring back good memories.!

Happy New Year!

Stephen


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## david freeman (Jan 26, 2006)

surfaceblow said:


> Did you try the link below ?
> 
> http://www.encyclopedia-titanica.org/titanic-delivery-trip-crew/
> 
> Joe


Thank you very much for the link and information. Regards David Freeman. Happy New Year


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