# Remaining Ocean liners



## Ocean Liner Fanatic (3 mo ago)

I would like to know which ocean liners still exist. The names of these ships will be appreciated. thanks


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## 200328 (8 mo ago)

Ocean Liner Fanatic said:


> I would like to know which ocean liners still exist. The names of these ships will be appreciated. thanks


these are the ones I know there may be more: united states, queen mary, rotterdam, cap san diego, hikawa maru and ns savannah. its interesting how many ocean liner were planned to be preserved but for various reasons it didn't happen.


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## Ocean Liner Fanatic (3 mo ago)

200328 said:


> these are the ones I know there may be more: united states, queen mary, rotterdam, cap san diego, hikawa maru and ns savannah. its interesting how many ocean liner were planned to be preserved but for various reasons it didn't happen.


thank you


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## makko (Jul 20, 2006)

QE2 still extant.


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## shiploversa (Dec 8, 2019)




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## shiploversa (Dec 8, 2019)

doulos and sandnes must be included in the list


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## kohl57 (Jul 29, 2006)

Well, surely Brunel's GREAT BRITAIN should be included!........

Peter Kohler


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## shiploversa (Dec 8, 2019)

kohl57 said:


> Well, surely Brunel's GREAT BRITAIN should be included!........
> 
> Peter Kohler


technically you are right - but the request was for ocean liners ! 😀


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## kohl57 (Jul 29, 2006)

But GREAT BRITAIN was most surely an "ocean liner"... in fact the first modern ocean liner in the world!!

Peter Kohler


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## shiploversa (Dec 8, 2019)

kohl57 said:


> But GREAT BRITAIN was most surely an "ocean liner"... in fact the first modern ocean liner in the world!!
> 
> Peter Kohler


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## kohl57 (Jul 29, 2006)

??? But GREAT BRITAIN _WAS_ engine-powered and not only that, the first screw-driven ocean liner!! She was as modern in concept and design as anything afloat then... or indeed now. Brunel invented the modern Ocean Liner with her. An absolute marvel of British genius, engineering and workmanship. Everything since is merely a variation on the theme. 

Peter Kohler


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## 200328 (8 mo ago)

makko said:


> QE2 still extant.


how did i forget qe2 sorry


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## 200328 (8 mo ago)

shiploversa said:


> doulos and sandnes must be included in the list


i knew about doulos but forgot to mention it but i havent heard about sandnes


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## Ocean Liner Fanatic (3 mo ago)

Thank you all who replied, This helped me a lot, thanks


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## taffe65 (May 27, 2007)

kohl57 said:


> ??? But GREAT BRITAIN _WAS_ engine-powered and not only that, the first screw-driven ocean liner!! She was as modern in concept and design as anything afloat then... or indeed now. Brunel invented the modern Ocean Liner with her. An absolute marvel of British genius, engineering and workmanship. Everything since is merely a variation on the theme.
> 
> Peter Kohler


No surprise he died relatively young ,the man had the DNA of a worker ant .The amount of projects he completed and worked on was superhuman, from an engineering perspective he was a freak but I guess it did for him in the end.


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## Shipwatcher3 (Apr 1, 2017)

I think he actually died of complications from a magic trick that went wrong. Inventing the elevating, turning hospital table in the process of trying to move a stuck penny from the trick.


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## taffe65 (May 27, 2007)

Lost me there mate?


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## Howard W-S (9 mo ago)

Shipwatcher3 said:


> I think he actually died of complications from a magic trick that went wrong. Inventing the elevating, turning hospital table in the process of trying to move a stuck penny from the trick.


Brunel died of a stroke. The rotating turntable worked and the penny was recovered.


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## Stephen J. Card (Nov 5, 2006)

kohl57 said:


> Everything since is merely a variation on the theme.
> 
> Peter Kohler


The 'liner' was the ultimate marine 'machine'. Started to go down hill in the late 70s. To day we have disgusting sludge barges with balconies.

Stephen


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## LTS (Jul 14, 2007)

I suppose that technically a ferry would be a liner


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## kohl57 (Jul 29, 2006)

Brunel would consider today's mass market cruise "ships" to be a marvel, an astonishment and as a Victorian possibly contemplate the value of packing large numbers of badly behaved and dressed people off on ships going vaguely nowhere.

Peter Kohler


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## Johnster (Aug 5, 2016)

Duke of Lancaster


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## SS City of Benares (11 mo ago)

The MS _Stockholm_ ocean liner is still in existence (however, she is no longer an ocean liner). The _Stockholm_ was the ship that rammed and sank the SS _Andrea Doria_ in 1956, killing 51 people. The _Stockholm_ went through several owners and is now the MS _Astoria_, a modern cruise ship. 

Regards,
William


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## davidwheeler (6 mo ago)

The Stockholm, now Astoria, surely does deserve inclusion. It is sad, isn't it, that she is remembered as the ship which sank the pride of the Italian passenger fleet. But it is far from that simple. It was human beings, not the ship, that caused the Andrea Doria/ Stockholm collision. Albeit much changed in the 1990s, the Astoria is still an ocean liner, she still has the lines and, given that the Marco Polo has been broken up, for many she was a chance to sail on a real ship. Apart from the QM2, the only one which actually moves, I think. My absolute favourite. I believe she remains in Rotterdam, facing a very uncertain future. Unless that has already been decided. So perhaps she has had it as well as the other former liners. I hope not.


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## R651400 (Jun 18, 2005)

Johnster said:


> Duke of Lancaster


And a hell of a lot more sad-looking than ss United States !


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## poseidon9 (Aug 13, 2010)

MS Funchal


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## poseidon9 (Aug 13, 2010)

The following two ships are now landlocked tourist attractions, but qualify as "remaining ocean liners":
MS Minghua, ex. Ancerville, located in Shenzen, China
MS Lydia, ex. Moonta, located in Port Barcares, France


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## poseidon9 (Aug 13, 2010)

Aranui 3 (now renamed M2), sailed in French Polynesia, the same service is provided now by Aranui 5
RMS St. Helena (now renamed MNG Tahiti), the vessel sailing to St. Helena island


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## poseidon9 (Aug 13, 2010)

MV Logos Hope was built as Gustav Vasa for a Baltic ferry service. Later renamed Norröna she was used also for sailings from Continental Europe to Iceland. Although a ferry service, a sailing to Iceland is in my opinion also an Atlantic crossing and an ocean voyage. So, she would qualify as an ocean liner. The owner Smyril line has probably used other vessels also on the route to Iceland.


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## gjgeracci846 (8 mo ago)

I really don't think a Ferry could be called a liner. After all, they are short trip ships .Whereas, the Liner did Multiple day(5 to 7) or longer trips each way.In ultimate luxury and style! On open ocean waters transcontinentally! ferries are more in the class of long distance Busses.


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## Stephen J. Card (Nov 5, 2006)

If Brunel say THIS thing I suspect he would run to taffrail and 'hurl' his lunch. I took the photo and I did!
This thing was at Bermuda on Thursday. First passenger revenue cruise. CARNIVAL LEGEND sailed first. Caught her powering up as she passed NORWEGIAN PRIMA.

Stephen


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## poseidon9 (Aug 13, 2010)

When speaking about ultimate luxury and style, one refers probably to the "luxury liner". There were, however, many liners without exceptional luxuries - to mention for instance many so-called emigrant liners with large tourist or economy classes (sometimes without first class).

Merriam-Webster Dictionary defines simply liner as (2a) "a ship belonging to a regular line".

Even with large recognized liners the "ultimate luxury and style" could only be found in the 1st class (speaking of the era prior to WW2 and even after that).

Nowadays one speaks of cruise liners and of cruise ferries. The cruise ferries have many of the luxuries typical of cruise liners and they often take passengers on multiple day trips. Although the cabins are mostly not as large and comfortable as on modern cruise liners, they are still mostly better than 2nd/3rd class accommodation on liners before the World Wars. On a cruise ferry each cabin has as a rule the private own shower - prior to 1970s many ocean-going liners did not have these amenities in tourist or 2nd/3rd class unless they were converted to cruising role.


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## davidwheeler (6 mo ago)

The person who started this used the words 'ocean liners'. So how does one define that? Not, surely, the Duke of Lancaster. Would it include the ships which ran the London/Rostock/Helsinki/Leningrad/ Stockholm/Riga/London service? That is not an ocean run. Although at least one of those ships crossed the Atlantic several times.
My Larousse encyclopedia defines ocean as a vast single area of salt water, and admits to only three - Atlantic, Pacific and Indian. So, according to that, any ship not operating in those areas is out.
Or is it just a matter of personal preference?


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## poseidon9 (Aug 13, 2010)

What is a liner?

I think there is the popular perception of a "liner" meaning just those large and often sumptuous transatlantic passenger ships, seen in old photos of New York luxury liner rows of pre-WW2 and post-WW2 eras. One has to add large vessels serving other continents, like Australasia, Africa and South America. That definition may be a bit vague as one can't clearly accept only the most "iconic" liners for real liners.

When following the dictionaries, all ships making some sort of "ocean crossings" would qualify as liners. Then one gets many smaller vessels and quite a few ferries, too, just remember Fred Olsen's cruiseferries operating from Britain to Canary Islands. There were some pretty small passenger vessels on some emigrant trades, for instance to Australia or South America after WW2, many crowded vessels lacking obviously any larger luxuries. However, I think these vessels were also ocean liners.

How about the earlier Soviet ships running from Leningrad to London via stops in diverse Baltic ports? The vessels of Mikhail Kalinin -class made occasional trips to Cuba (as did Baltika) and I have understood that these vessels served also ports in Asia and made cruises extending to how far, I don't know. They were probably full ocean-going even though built probably more for the so-called "short-sea" services on Baltic, North Sea, Mediterranean, Black Sea, the Far East and Arctic Ocean.

And Duke of Lancaster? Basically a ferry rather for short-sea crossings (to Ireland originally?). But didn't Sealink operate also cruises (at least seasonally) with those ferries, which had the necessary overnight cabin capacity? These cruises went further away to Norway, the Baltic, Madeira, etc. So they were partly ocean trips and the vessels fully ocean-going.

Maybe a definition should be searced for from the domain of naval architecture. There are probably regulations, when a passenger vessel may be used on a longer commercial ocean sailings. Is anyone able to help with definitions from that domain?

Does a short-sea cruiseferry meet generally the technical requirements of being shifted on an ocean ferry service? For instance, can you put (technically) a European overnight service cruiseferry on New York to Bermuda run or are there some extra technical requirements (not thinking flag, ship decoration taste, etc. factors).


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## makko (Jul 20, 2006)

When in doubt, take the plain language meaning! For many people, "ocean liner" means, for example, those that sailed on a fixed timetable from Liverpool or Southampton and maybe a better definition is "Passenger Liner", which I think solves it! You must remember that, in their heyday, there was no other way to cross the oceans to other continents. That is where the "luxury" comes in, catering for new-made or "old money" people who could afford and demanded the best. Then there were the run-of-the-mill emigrants, making a one-way journey, just enough money for the passage, maybe they had never known "luxury".

So, in a nutshell, we should get into era! There were no other alternatives but sea! 

Rgds.
Dave


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## makko (Jul 20, 2006)

BTW: The transition to air travel led to the demise of the Hadj vessels. The urban rumour is that the hadj would set up stoves on aircraft to make tea. That is why, after several accidents, all sorts of flamable materials are banned from the cabins of aircraft. Haven't you often wondered why it shows a Calor gas cylinder on the banned items list pictures!

Rgds.
Dave


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## Stephen J. Card (Nov 5, 2006)

There is no thing such as 'passenger liner' and definitely no such thing as an 'emigrant ship', not even 'cargo liner'. ; 'Luxury Passenger Liner' is just an advertising term. Very nice, but just that. Ever the term 'ferry' is misleading.

*Passenger ships: classification and certification*
Passenger-carrying ships are classified primarily on whether they operate inshore or on short or long international voyages.

The classes of passenger ships are as follows:


Class I - ships engaged on voyages any of which are long international voyages.
Class II - ships engaged only on voyages any of which are short international voyages.
Class II(A) - ships engaged on voyages of any kind other than international voyages, which are not ships of Classes III to VI(A).
Class III - ships engaged only on voyages in the course of which they are at no time more than 70 miles by sea from their point of departure and not more than 18 miles from the coast of the UK and which are at sea only in favourable weather and during restricted periods.
Class VI - ships engaged only on voyages with not more than 250 passengers on board. In favourable weather and during restricted periods, in the course of which the ships are at no time more than 15 miles from their point of departure, nor more than 3 miles from land.
Class VI (A) - ships carrying not more than 50 passengers for a distance of not more than 6 miles. Voyages to or from isolated communities on the islands or coast of the UK and which do not proceed for a distance of more than 3 miles from land - this is subject to any conditions which the Secretary of State may impose.


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## Stephen J. Card (Nov 5, 2006)

Remember this


poseidon9 said:


> What is a liner?
> 
> I think there is the popular perception of a "liner" meaning just those large and often sumptuous transatlantic passenger ships, seen in old photos of New York luxury liner rows of pre-WW2 and post-WW2 eras. One has to add large vessels serving other continents, like Australasia, Africa and South America. That definition may be a bit vague as one can't clearly accept only the most "iconic" liners for real liners.
> 
> ...


one: 'The Atlantic Ferry' = 'North Atlantic Luxury Liners'.


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## Stephen J. Card (Nov 5, 2006)

Poseidon,

Cruise Ferry on a run NY to Bermuda? No. It is two night crossing, roughly 37 hours. The vessel would have to be 'Class I Passenger ship'. The fastest run Bermuda to NY would be late 1960's... the ss UNITED STATES. Left Bermuda at 0700 and 24 hours later was alongside at Manhattan.

The Furness Bermuda Line was technically a 'ferry service'. The passengers disembarked at Bermuda and would go to hotels. The ship might stay alongside for two days and then return to NY, not necessarily the passengers that had arrived in the ship two days before. The ships were NOT cruise ships. That cruise or 'live aboard' cruises started in the 50s. Before that passenger ships were not allowed to stay in port 'overnight'. It was a 8 hour stay in the port or as anchor. The Furness stayed in port and px did not live on board, the two days would be spent discharging cargo.

Stephen


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## makko (Jul 20, 2006)

Stephen,
Please refer to my post - The "vernacular" turn of phrase. When have youe ever heard a "punter" say,"By Jove! I managed to get a booking on a Class III(A) ship!". BTW, for ship, it should read vessel.........
Rgds.
Dave


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## davidwheeler (6 mo ago)

I am getting a bit lost in all this. In 1962 I went from Tilbury to Leningrad via Rostock and Helsinki on m/v Baltika. It took six days. Baltika crossed the Atlantic with passengers at least twice. On the way back from Leningrad, via Stockholm and Riga, by m/v Estonia. Another six days. Was Baltika a Class 1 passenger ship, and Estonia a Class 11? Were both liners? Ocean liners? Or ferries? Or just passenger ships? Of one thing I am sure. Not luxury liners. Good value though. And good fun.


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## poseidon9 (Aug 13, 2010)

But aren't the cruise ferries always class I passenger ships?

The Fred. Olsen cruiseferries Blenheim, Black Prince and Black Watch sailed regularly from London to Madeira and the Canary Islands. I think that's a longer distance than NYC-Bermuda and the Bay of Biscay can be very stormy. Earlier generation of ferries on route Helsinki-Travemuende/ Germany (it used to take two nights, roughly 36 or more hours ) were used also on ocean voyages, for instance on cruises to Canary Islands and West Africa, one of the vessels ended up in Florida making casino cruises from West Palm Beach. I would expect cruiseferries of the routes Kiel-Oslo (overnight) or Genoa-Barcelona, Venice-Patras, etc. to be class 1 passenger ships. Aren't the largest and best equipped cruise ferries as they are mostly found in European waters generally class 1 passenger ships?

The safety regulations (SOLAS etc.) have of course changed, but I would think that larger overnight ferries and passenger ships (like the Soviet ships on Leningrad-London run) generally met regulations that were applied during their era allowing also ocean-going operations.


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## loco (Dec 10, 2010)

British Railways' Harwich-Hook ferry AVALON did some cruises from Harwich to Iberian Peninsula and Mediterranean ports around 1970, but I don't think she qualifies as 'liner'.

She was, however, a steam turbine ship.

Martyn


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## poseidon9 (Aug 13, 2010)

One can find in the web (various sites) the difference between long- and short international voyages. Short international voyages are those voyages, where the vessel in "not more than 200 miles from a port or place in which the passengers and crew could be placed in safety". A further requirement is that "neither the distance between the last port of call in which the voyage begins and the final port of destination nor the return voyage shall exceed 600 miles."

Long international voyages are then voyages exceeding those distances. Sailings in European waters qualify probably for the short international voyages. What is then the requirement, when shifting from short to long voyages.

A web search gives following distances:
New York-Bermuda: 697 nautical miles
London-Madeira: 1490 nautical miles
Helsinki-Travemuende: 611 nautical miles

All of these routes exceed the 600 miles (if it's nautical miles), how about keeping the 200-mile rule (on the Bermuda-run probably not ok). Do one need to meet both the rules or only one of them??

Please correct me, if I'm wrong with the distances...


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## poseidon9 (Aug 13, 2010)

Does anyone know, where do I find the classification and certification for passenger vessels and ferries? Is it part of the IMO database possibly?

I find in web all kinds of infos for large ferries and passenger vessels, ice classes etc. but not the mentioned classification of class 1, 2, etc. long and short voyage, etc.

There is a wikipedia list of largest ferries, all of them probably rather on short distance voyages. Would they be class 2 (or possibly 1)? What kind of procedure is it to turn a vessel of class 2 (short international voyage) to class 1 vessel?


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## davidwheeler (6 mo ago)

I am now completely lost. But, anyone who has done the Helsinki- Travemunde crossing on the Finnjet, flat out through the winter ice, will not waste much time debating whether she was a liner, a ferry or any other type of classification. She was Finnjet.


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## jmcg (Apr 20, 2008)

Stephen J. Card said:


> If Brunel say THIS thing I suspect he would run to taffrail and 'hurl' his lunch. I took the photo and I did!
> This thing was at Bermuda on Thursday. First passenger revenue cruise. CARNIVAL LEGEND sailed first. Caught her powering up as she passed NORWEGIAN PRIMA.
> 
> Stephen


At least the rat guards are of original design.

Ugly indeed.

BW
J


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## poseidon9 (Aug 13, 2010)

Times change. The Hales Trophy (officially the North Atlantic Blue Riband Challenge Trophy) was awarded in 1990s to three highspeed passenger vessels, the last one being Cat-Link V, which is described as an ocean-going catamaran, built by Incat, Australia, measuring 5619 GT, achieving a maximum of 48 knots and with a capacity for 900 passengers and 240 cars, probably with a "bus type" of seating. The vessel is now renamed HSC Fjord Cat. See English Wikipedia for the "Hales Trophy". 

So, the United States is no longer the holder of the Trophy.


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## Stephen J. Card (Nov 5, 2006)

....maximum of 48 knots and with a capacity for 900 passengers.

Did the cat carry 900 pax on the voyage?

Following the retirement of _United States_ in 1969 the award languished, until revived in 1990 for the Incat built passenger/car ferry _Hoverspeed Great Britain_ when she established a new speed record for a commercial vessel on her eastbound delivery voyage without passengers that year.[4] The trophy has been won twice since then, each time by an Incat built vessel.


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## loco (Dec 10, 2010)

OFF TOPIC OFF TOPIC

A claimant for the Hales trophy, but was denied..........

'Virgin Atlantic Challenger' arriving at its builders in Lowestoft, UK, August 1986, after its record breaking run;










Pure luck I was there at the day, swapping pilot launches with the damaged Lowestoft one for a replacement from Trinity House, Harwich.

Martyn.


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## wl745 (Jun 15, 2014)

R651400 said:


> And a hell of a lot more sad-looking than ss United States !
> View attachment 694701


did this sail Heysham/Belfast?


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## thenormandie (Nov 27, 2013)

Stephen J. Card said:


> If Brunel say THIS thing I suspect he would run to taffrail and 'hurl' his lunch. I took the photo and I did!
> This thing was at Bermuda on Thursday. First passenger revenue cruise. CARNIVAL LEGEND sailed first. Caught her powering up as she passed NORWEGIAN PRIMA.
> 
> Stephen


The NORWEGIAN PRIMA-DONNA I'd say!


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## kohl57 (Jul 29, 2006)

Semantics aside for aside for a moment but nice to hear of others who sailed in T.E.V. BALTIKA... I did so in 1984, London-Leningrad after visiting her in Copenhagen (aboard VISTAFJORD) and absolutely falling in love with her. She was totally original 1939 and quite wonderful for it. What a shame she was not preserved and indeed was the last surviving Hero Ship of the Great Patriotic War. The fall of the USSR sealed her fate. 

As Woody Allen said, "such lousy food and such small portions" but BALTIKA was utterly charming and could still manage 19 knots with her remarkably quiet turbo-electric machinery... like a watch. 

She was, of course, a passenger vessel, indeed an ocean liner and spent winters as a troopship, too on the Havana run. All the regimental crests were displayed on the wood panelling in the main staircase. 

Ships are mostly defined by what they do in my option.

I don't think QM2 has been mentioned... she is surely a liner and passenger ship by utility (May-Nov) and design even if her speed nowadays is more UMBRIA than QUEEN MARY. 

The liner's a lady and a ferry is... well.... a ferry.

Peter Kohler


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## John Gowers (Jul 18, 2018)

#46 David the Finnjet had the same engines (Pratt and Whitney FT4) as the four Denholms GTV containerships, I believe these five ships were the only gas turbine merchant ships ever built? They were designed and built at time when fuel was cheap but as fuel prices increased they became uneconomic, shame I was on them for almost three years great ships and great crews.


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## taffe65 (May 27, 2007)

John could you explain the start up procedure for these marine unit gas turbines, were they warmed through and turned like a steam turbine before going on load? Just inquisitive.


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## John Gowers (Jul 18, 2018)

Taffe no you basically hit the green start button and they would run up on a hydraulic starter once up to a certain speed which I think was was 2000 RPM ( it was around this speed as it was over 40 years ago the old memory is going) fuel was then put through the burners and flashed by basically a big spark plug and the engines then run up to manouvering speed. The exhaust from the jet engine then went through tubing to a free turbine ( called a free turbine as it was not connected to the jet engine) and through a gear box to a CP prop. There were a few other things to do to prepare the engine like putting on cooling water for the gear box oil and opening up fuel valves but it only took a few mins to get the engines ready to run. Great ships but burned about 200 tons of fuel a day going full speed so became uneconomic. FYI you could change out a GG (Gas Generator) as they were called in 6 hours and we carried a spare.


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## taffe65 (May 27, 2007)

Hours notice for standby engines sounds like a doddle then .


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## jimg0nxx (Sep 1, 2005)

Hi John,
Ref the Denholms GTV container ships and Finnjet being the only gas turbine ships ever built. Was not the Denholm ore carrier Morar a much earlier version of this propulsion method, all be it was not a great success.

Cheers,
Jim


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## John Gowers (Jul 18, 2018)

I was never on the Morar but you are right it was the first gas turbine powered ship and a total disaster never heard a good word said about it.


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## poseidon9 (Aug 13, 2010)

Is anyone familiar with the "Super Liner Ogasawara"? According to web sources the vessel is (was) 140 m long, 14500 gt., gas turbine with waterjets, 40 knots speed, intended to carry 725 passengers (in cabins) on the 1000 km open Pacific ocean route from Tokyo to Ogasawara islands in Japan. You find photos and descriptions in web.

The project has been called "the techno superliner", but apparently the vessel was pulled out of service due to too high fuel costs and, as I understood, does no longer exist.


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## poseidon9 (Aug 13, 2010)

How about TS Patricia, built in 1951 for Svenska Lloyd for the route Gothenburg-London, actually as a ferry. Later that vessel was used in ocean-going roles from New York and US ports to the Caribbean, I have understood. I think she was a "liner" although built originally for a short-sea ferry service. There are other ferries or short-sea passenger vessels, which later took ocean-going roles and were fully "ocean-going". By the way, I saw the Baltika once (as a kid), but never got onboard. All the "real liners" are now gone from active services and we have the "mega balcony liners". I wonder what we do have in 20-30 years time, again something different.


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## davidwheeler (6 mo ago)

Kohl57 I shared your enthusiasm for the Baltika. I was 16 when we sailed from Tilbury in August 1962 in atrocious weather. The captain, who was a lovely man, decided that the sea conditions across the top of Denmark were a bit rough for us passengers. That was a kind thought because the ship was full of Finnish students, in very basic accommodation, going home to Helsinki. So he took us through the Kiel Canal, which was exciting. He liked to talk to us passengers. 
When we arrived in Leningrad, there was no room for us in the City, so we had to stay aboard. We were moved to better accommodation. Slightly. But we had the freedom of the ship. I thought it was absolutely wonderful. I think we all did. Nobody complained. 
So the Baltika was a liner. As I remember it she was introduced over the speaker system as 'turbo electric ship Baltika'. In Leningrad at the same time were the Matson Line 'Brasil' and the Bergen Line 'Meteor'. Also liners. Or cruise ships. Or perhaps both. Not relevant, anyway, since none of these fine vessels still exist.


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## davidwheeler (6 mo ago)

#54 - Pratt & Whitney engines. Way off the topic now I know, but would it not be interesting to learn more about these engines and the ships in which they were installed? I would like to know more. It seems to have been a significant experiment. Was it just for speed?
The Finnjet might have been a contender for the main topic, since I believe Finland made a determined effort to save the ship from the breakers. On the other hand, the Finnjet stationary would not have been the Finnjet. The real power in this ship, was to see and feal her surging through the ice on a freezing Baltic February day. Unforgettable.


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## John Gowers (Jul 18, 2018)

David 
Here you go a bit of info on the Denholms GTVs. They were designed and built when fuel was cheap also the engines rooms were actually quite small when you think the size of an engine on a steam ship, so small engine room more container space. In later years they did try running on BFO (Blended Fuel Oil) which was cheaper but still expensive and did not do the engines any good. In the description below it says they ran on diesel but it was a modified dissel which was only obtainable in Rotterdam.

IMO 7033795 O.N. 341260
*EUROLINER (1971 – 1979)*
As built: 30,909g. 21,666n. 28,433d. 798’ 6” (BB) x 100’ 3” x 35’ 1¼ “
Post 1980: 30,411g. 11,859n. 31,820d. 243.42(BB) x 30.56 x 10.70 draught in metres

As built: Two, gas turbines by Pratt & Whitney, reduction geared to screw shaft. 58,600 shp
Post 1980: Two, 9-cyl. 4 SCSA (620 x 660mm) 9TM620 type by Stork-Werkspoor Diesel BV, Netherlands. 31,812bhp.

26.3.1970: Keel laid by Rheinstahl Nordseewerke GmbH, Emden (Yard No.419).
24.10.1970: Launched.
22.3.1971: Completed for Scarsdale Shipping Co Ltd (Denholm Ship Management Ltd, managers).
25.3.1971: Registered at London. (O.N. 341260).
1979: Sold to Navifonds Nr. 8 Seeschiffsanlegegesellschaft Engler Beteiligungs GmbH & Co KG, W.Germany.
1980: Re-engined.
1980: Renamed SEAPAC TRENTON
1981: Renamed ORIENTAL GOVERNOR, under Panama flag.
1986: Sold to South Wealth Shipping Ltd , Liberia and renamed YS ARGOSY.
1988: Renamed OOCL BRITAIN.
1988: Renamed OOCL DOMINANCE .
1990: Renamed ATLANTIC SENATOR.
1991: Renamed AL MUHARRAQ.
1993: Sold to Bright River Shipping Ltd, Liberia and renamed BRIGHT RIVER.
1995: Renamed RIGHT RIVER for voyage to breakers.
18.3.1995: Arrived at Alang for demolition.
17.4.1995: A G Scrap Corporation commenced work


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## davidwheeler (6 mo ago)

Thank you. That is a powerful looking ship. Were these aircraft engines - Boeing 707/ DC 8 aircraft used them didn't they? - the only sufficiently powerful engines available in the 1970s? Brittany Ferries faced a similar problem in 2000 when looking for a ferry capable of 27 knots. They chose 4 x MaK12VM43 engines.


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## taffe65 (May 27, 2007)




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## taffe65 (May 27, 2007)

Don't ask me why I posted this here, it's Monday see!


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## poseidon9 (Aug 13, 2010)

A new largest cruise liner of the world is being built. Meyer in Turku, Finland is constructing the Icon of the Seas, 250800 gt, maximum capacity of 7600 passengers, 364,8 metres length, using Lng for propulsion. There are videos in youtube and descriptions in web of the planned liner. The vessel looks slightly different than the earlier "world largest" Oasis -class of the same company Royal Caribbean. 

It's a huge size. Comparing with the earlier ocean liners, there is of course the change of measurement from the earlier grt to gt. Anyway, well around 10 mid-sized cruise vessels of the 1970s would add into the new "Icon".

I wonder what the passenger logistics in Florida ports, like Miami or Ft. Lauderdale, looks like on the day of arrival and departure of these ships. I guess most passengers arrive from outside of Florida, probably most of them want to arrive on the day of departure. Think just the amount of airline seats that one of these vessels fills on a turn-around day on flights to/from Florida, the amount of surface transport needed from airport to port, the need for hotel rooms...


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