# War memorial bronze plaques stolen by scrap metal thieves



## Phill

S*** bags at it again
Plymouth Royal Navy War memorial, has had Bronze plaques stolen by scrap metal thieves, 
Let’s hope the Police catch these low lives.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...ze-plaques-stolen-by-scrap-metal-thieves.html
Phill


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## sandman

Police arrested 3,two released on bail,all other plaques have been found in somerset and being returned to plymouth,but one has been cut in half.


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## Santos

See *here* for full story. One has been cut into four.

Chris.


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## Steve Woodward

Santos said:


> See *here* for full story. One has been cut into four.
> 
> Chris.


I hope we are talking about one of the felons being cut into four - preferably after hanging and drawing (Cloud)


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## Santos

Steve Woodward said:


> I hope we are talking about one of the felons being cut into four - preferably after hanging and drawing (Cloud)


No such luck I am afraid - it appears that the authorities are up to their normal tricks - 2 men have been bailed, no doubt never to be seen again. 

If anyone ever does come to trial I would think they will either be let off because they didnt know what they were doing or given some pathetic sentence suspended for the day, all defended at the tax payers cost of course. (Cloud)


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## GEORDIE LAD

There are times when the return of the Cat-o-Nine would be most warranted,especially for wanton vandalism.It seems that punishment is no longer an option for these low-lives.Very sad.....Doug


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## benjidog

I am not part of the "hang 'em and flog 'em" brigade but this seems like a suitable case for The Stocks. 

No physical punishment but public humiliation by everyone having a chance to show their disgust at these greedy thoughtless morons! (Cloud) 

Brian


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## Nairda59

Sorry Benji I am one of the 'hang em etc' and a sound beating in the privacy of a locked room would do nicely. (For them not me)
Why dont we bring back the stocks in the market square - suitably inspected by the H&S bods, the thought police, and the lets give our hard won freedoms away mob - so that'll be a no then !!


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## benjidog

Nairda59,

I guess I could be persuaded - send me a "Hang 'em and flog 'em" membership form then! 

Brian


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## Peter4447

There are times when you feel ashamed to be a member of the same society.
(Cloud)


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## ROBERT HENDERSON

I think wanton vandalism is despicable at any time, but to do this to a war memorial must rate as the most despicable of all, Whilst I believe in the concept of human rights,but when you carry out a crime against society you forfeit those human rights. I would advocate bringing back the stocks or the birch for public humiliation.
Robert


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## Ryder

I see in the Western Moring News that replacement plaques will cost about £7,000 and the ones they desicrated were for a scrap value of £200.
Can I have a"flog em and hang em" membership form as well !!
Tony


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## Pusser509

I would hope that if they ever come to trial and actually get convicted, that they are required to reimburse all of the costs incurred: plaques, police, punitive damage for the effect on relatives of those named on the plaques, etc.

There is a trend in the West toward not being responsible for one's own actions. That must now change or we are on a slippery slope toward anarchy.

Just my thoughts.

Regards

Don K.


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## Chouan

I seem to be alone here, but I'd rather they were taking bronze plaques than taking stuff from people at knife point, and possibly using the knives. 
I know which crime I think is the more serious!


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## Pompeyfan

Chouan said:


> I seem to be alone here, but I'd rather they were taking bronze plaques than taking stuff from people at knife point, and possibly using the knives.
> I know which crime I think is the more serious!


There is an old saying: Two wrongs don't make a right. As dreadful and indeed worrying knife crime has become, you cannot compare it to the mental anguish this has caused. In the Portsmouth News last night the headlines were: Pensioner Devastated By Theft Of War Plaque. The report explains what happened saying the pensioner was heartbroken after scrap metal thieves stole a memorial plaque which displayed her father-in-laws name. The pensioner, Linda Corpse often used to visit the war memorial with her husband and three young daughters and tell them what a brave man their grandfather was. William Corpse, a navy chief coxswain, died at the age of 35 when he was stabbed with a bayonet in the Second World War while in a Japanese prisoner-of-war camp.

The Japs were knife happy then, so it cannot be said that the knife crime today is any worse in this country or elsewhere. A stab is a stab be it from a knife today or a bayonet in the war. Be it war or peacetime the outcome is the same, injury or death.

This case as others have portrayed is disgusting because it shows the kind of selfish and uncaring society that these people fought for. What would they be thinking now when people back home have become as cruel and uncaring as those they kept them prisoner and then killed them.

Four of the 113 bronze plaques from the memorial in Plymouth have been stolen to sell for scrap metal.

One cannot put into money or any other value what the loss of something like this means to grieving relatives which is why it can in no way be compared to knife crime or indeed any other crime today.

David


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## pete

Having lived in Plymouth for 33 years and always showing due deference to the Memorial every time I passed it I am shocked at the theft of these plates. If indeed they have these persons correctly identified then the removal of spheriods and high piched squeaky voices comes to mind...............pete


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## Chouan

"As dreadful and indeed worrying knife crime has become, you cannot compare it to the mental anguish this has caused."

Of course you can't compare the two. 
Somebody gets upset by the theft of a plaque that is replaceable. 
Somebody is stabbed and seriously injured or killed. Even if not seriously hurt they are mentally scarred for life, and, they, their friends, and their family are seriously traumatised. 
There is, clearly, no comparison.


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## Peter4447

Nobody would argue with you Chouan when you state the obvious that knife crime is a serious problem within society today.
The thread, however, was about the despicable act of some low-lifes who desecrated a memorial erected as a tribute to those who made the ultimate sacrifice in order that we and those morons could enjoy the freedom that we enjoy today.
I fail to understand why you feel the need to raise the subject of knife crime in the same thread.
Peter


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## Pompeyfan

It is very important to remember how something like this can affect people whether it is replaceable or not. So let me quote what Linda Corpse said, and I quote: "If Ron was still here, this would have just about broken him". The man who the plaque was in honour of was her dead husbands father. Her husband died last year aged 79, and would have been devastated.

In my former job I dealt with relatives of people who's loved one was knifed to death, and those who died of a broken heart because something stolen from them was either irreplaceable or able to be replaced. It did not matter because stealing something from them was like stealing their soul and many people were so heartbroken, they died.

That is what I mean by not being able to compare. 

As Peter rightly indicates, although knife crime is a serious problem this thread is about a plaque being stolen that is a tribute to the ultimate sacrifice this man made for all of us, and how stealing it has affected his loved ones. Sorry, but this plaque cannot be replaced because it served as a memory of a loved one. Taking this plaque is no different to taking the person themsleves. That is why in graveyards you will see all kinds of things left at the graveside, something that helps relatives cope with their grief and keeping that person alive if only in their minds. This plaque is no different meaning far more than metal for this s*** to make money out of.

David


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## treeve

They know the price of everything and the value of nothing .. was once said by Oscar Wilde .. that ignorant brigade is developing, in society, whether it be in government, multi-nationals and right down to street criminals, thieves and vandals. That has grown proportionately to the "soft touch" which has been advocated by the do-gooders removing punishment. Now, there all manner of excuses and so-called reasons, including everything that everyone has to go through and yet did not follow that path of crime and destuction of other's property, places and objects of reverential consideration. Who amongst us has not suffered loss, or pain, or deprivation, yet how many of us have become social vermin? All we hear are Civil Rights and summations of a psychologically disturbing background that the poor demented offenders have seen as youngsters. Give em something to complain about, lock them up for a year. And none of the usual pandering to standard diversionary pleasures. David, can I be a member? Chouan, I am with you as well, it is all a part of the same problem .. no one is held accountable. Raymond


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## benjidog

Chouan said:


> I seem to be alone here, but I'd rather they were taking bronze plaques than taking stuff from people at knife point, and possibly using the knives.
> I know which crime I think is the more serious!


Choan,

Your summary is apposite - I would wager that, amongst the membership of this site at least, you are alone in your views over this. 

Added to which your lack of sensitivity is in my opinion breathtaking.

Brian


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## ddraigmor

The price for this freedom we enjoy has been paid - in full - by servicemen and women who laid their lives down for it. I am appalled that something like a war memorial can be desecrated by people who will then use the legal system to diminish their crime because they wil use the Humar Rights the men whose names on the plaque fought to give them. 

Stick the ba**ards in a room full of ex servicemen and lock the doors.

Jonty


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## Phill

The Plymouth naval memorial is one of three, the others being Chatham and Portsmouth, between them they hold over 60.000 names of members of the Royal Navy who had no known grave, from the 1st and 2nd world wars, I believe the three memorials all hold different names.
Of particular interest to me is the Chatham memorial, which has the name of one of my relatives who was a chief engine room artificer who perished on the HMS Natal during the 1st world war. 
I’m sorry this should be treated as a serious crime and warrants a serious sentence, cutting off the balls of these s*** bags would be no match for putting them to the public.
Phill


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## Santos

benjidog said:


> Choan,
> 
> Your summary is apposite - I would wager that, amongst the membership of this site at least, you are alone in your views over this.
> 
> Added to which your lack of sensitivity is in my opinion breathtaking.
> 
> Brian


Brian you took the words out of my mouth - its more than breathtaking its bloody unbelievable.

Chris.


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## Ted Else

I certainly agree with most of the outrage being shown here and just to widen this thread a little further - I myself get 'outraged' when seeing medals being sold - the awards to brave men being sold to the highest bidder etc. Our society stinks!


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## Pompeyfan

Ted Else said:


> I certainly agree with most of the outrage being shown here and just to widen this thread a little further - I myself get 'outraged' when seeing medals being sold - the awards to brave men being sold to the highest bidder etc. Our society stinks!


That is a difficult one to answer Ted because it may not be as clear cut as it seems as to why these medals are being sold by families for example. It could be anything from being in serious debt to having total disregard for the medal or plaque, the reason for this thread. I personally would never see any reason to sell a medal, not even if I was skint, but the world is sadly changing to the values most of us were brought up in which is why plaques like this is stolen with no remorse.

It may be a strange thing to say, but has this country has been at peacetime for too long?. Have some people lost respect for those who lost their lives fighting for the freedom we now enjoy because both world wars were so long ago?. Are we not educating younger people enough about the world wars?. Is this why those who steal plaques such as this, or sell medals as Ted has stated have no respect for the meaning of war and freedom of winning. Not freedom to rob, but to respect each other?. Is that why this country in particular has become so violent, why we are becoming afraid to go out, why the law seems on the side of the criminal, and not those who are law abiding?. Or worried that if we go out we will be robbed at knife point, car stolen or house broken into or loved ones mementoes at graveyards and memorials stolen. Do we need wars now and again on the home front to wake a nation up and start respecting each other again?.

Would those who lost their lives fighting for those back home be turning in their graves when they see the way the country has become?.

Few of us would remember the war first hand, what it was like to wonder if our families would be coming home. Every single one of us would have had family serving in the war, parents, grandparents, uncles and aunties etc. And of course not only did we worry about them, we never knew if the next plane overhead would blow us to kingdom come. I don't remember it personally being born in 1944, but was certainly told about it and remember the rations long after the war ended. 

My uncle was with Monty and has medals of course. He has long since died but my cousin would never sell them even if hard up. But what about her children and their children. Will those medals mean as much as they do to my cousins and my generation?

Okay, we still have troops fighting abroad, many families still heavily involved, but not as widespread as when the country is being attacked. 

Tony Blair once said, education, education. Well that also means educating all generations into respecting the two world wars, respecting both plaques and medals as something that should never be sold for personal gain.

And if caught stealing them, send the buggers to the front line in Afghanistan or somewhere so that they can see what it is like to fear for your life every day, rather than sit at home on their idle backsides getting benefit that is only possible due to the bravery of those they are now selling for a few quid.

David


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## Gavin Gait

For those who cannot see why we are all so vexed and disgusted with the theft of these plaques please try to see it as someone stealing the gravestone from a relatives grave in a cemetery. For those directly affected it is every bit as bad as that.


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## Pompeyfan

Davie Tait said:


> For those who cannot see why we are all so vexed and disgusted with the theft of these plaques please try to see it as someone stealing the gravestone from a relatives grave in a cemetery. For those directly affected it is every bit as bad as that.



Exactly what I indicated in an earlier post Davey. Sadly, this is happening all too often, not long ago mementoes were taken from a child's grave not far away, things that could not be replaced because they were sentimental, not monetary value. But thieves have no soul, they would pinch anything whether it be for a few pence or few quid or just mindless vandalism.

David


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## pete

As a friend of mine said a few days ago "They would even take the sugar out of your tea if they were able. As far as I am concerened there is only one word for people like this. B**st**ds...............pete


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## raybnz

The same thing happens on this side of the world too. Low life making a buck or two out of doing this sort of thing. Trouble is the scrap metal merchants must know what the bronze is from but they still pay out.

Here in NZ thieves have taken to pinching copper power lines that supply isolated milking sheds. They wait until they know the cockie has gone home at the end off the day then cut the line down. Next morning when he goes to milk no power. Just wish once in awhile the low lifes make a mistake and get fried.


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## Chouan

Pompeyfan said:


> That is a difficult one to answer Ted because it may not be as clear cut as it seems as to why these medals are being sold by families for example. It could be anything from being in serious debt to having total disregard for the medal or plaque, the reason for this thread. I personally would never see any reason to sell a medal, not even if I was skint, but the world is sadly changing to the values most of us were brought up in which is why plaques like this is stolen with no remorse.
> 
> It may be a strange thing to say, but has this country has been at peacetime for too long?. Have some people lost respect for those who lost their lives fighting for the freedom we now enjoy because both world wars were so long ago?. Are we not educating younger people enough about the world wars?. Is this why those who steal plaques such as this, or sell medals as Ted has stated have no respect for the meaning of war and freedom of winning. Not freedom to rob, but to respect each other?. Is that why this country in particular has become so violent, why we are becoming afraid to go out, why the law seems on the side of the criminal, and not those who are law abiding?. Or worried that if we go out we will be robbed at knife point, car stolen or house broken into or loved ones mementoes at graveyards and memorials stolen. Do we need wars now and again on the home front to wake a nation up and start respecting each other again?.
> 
> Would those who lost their lives fighting for those back home be turning in their graves when they see the way the country has become?.
> 
> Few of us would remember the war first hand, what it was like to wonder if our families would be coming home. Every single one of us would have had family serving in the war, parents, grandparents, uncles and aunties etc. And of course not only did we worry about them, we never knew if the next plane overhead would blow us to kingdom come. I don't remember it personally being born in 1944, but was certainly told about it and remember the rations long after the war ended.
> 
> My uncle was with Monty and has medals of course. He has long since died but my cousin would never sell them even if hard up. But what about her children and their children. Will those medals mean as much as they do to my cousins and my generation?
> 
> Okay, we still have troops fighting abroad, many families still heavily involved, but not as widespread as when the country is being attacked.
> 
> Tony Blair once said, education, education. Well that also means educating all generations into respecting the two world wars, respecting both plaques and medals as something that should never be sold for personal gain.
> 
> And if caught stealing them, send the buggers to the front line in Afghanistan or somewhere so that they can see what it is like to fear for your life every day, rather than sit at home on their idle backsides getting benefit that is only possible due to the bravery of those they are now selling for a few quid.
> 
> David


Of course our History means nothing to them. Education means nothing to them. Education means nothing to their parents. Look at the attitude expressed on this forum at times towards teachers; I've seen "Can't do, teach" quoted several times. This behaviour is one of the results of that attitude.


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## ROBERT HENDERSON

Pompeyfan
In your last posting you say that these young people the cause vandelism and other crimes against society should be sent on the front line in Afghanistan. I have read letters in the media where many people echo the same sentiments. I disagree with this, they have no repect for authority or for other human beings, I for one would like to be in a battle situation with them whereby your own life and safety depends on each other and working as a team. Similarly I would not want them on board ship, either MN or RN, again where we depend on each other working together in an emergency. I lived near Colchester Glasshouse and used to see the wrongdoers from the Army early in the morning with full packs on running before breakfast. I belive correction centre on similar lines may help. No television , no snooker tables, just the bare basics to keep them alive. As I said in a previous post on this thread, when you commit crimes against society then you forfeit your human rights. It come down to ''If you can't do the time, don't commit crime.''


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## Pompeyfan

Robert

I understand exactly what you are saying, and you could be right. But one of these reasons young people cause vandalism and other crimes is because there is no discipline in their lives. There is no discipline at school now, let alone at home. During my era, we were scared of the teacher, now it is the other way around. Part of the problem today is the PC Brigade. When I was at school and did something wrong you would get the cane, or a ruler across the knuckles, or slap around the head. Today you cannot touch a child, and people wonder why they are so out of control. I am not saying that the cane or hitting us was right, but we were not the uncontrolled foul mouthed rabble they are today. So teachers methods in those days must have worked rightly or wrongly?.

I am certain that with the right training vandals of today would make good soldiers and decent people. It would teach them things they are not being taught now. Basically, they are not bad people, they have just been brought up the wrong way. A few youngsters down the road from me were really bad when young, totally out of control. They are all fine young men now, some going into the forces, others starting their own business, all with a purpose in life which they did not have when younger.

When I was at sea there were some very bad characters below decks. It was one of the reasons my father did not want me to go to sea because of the reputation it had. I was always going to patch up people injured in fights, these were very VERY tough people. Survive at sea in those days and you were doing well. There are a few spine chilling stories I could tell, but never will. 

We also had discipline at sea in those days and these characters were weeded out only to be replaced by more. I still think that there is hope for today's youngsters who are out of control if they have proper discipline and something to work for. At the moment they have too much time on their hands and nothing to strive for other than the next act of vandalism or other crime. The level of crime seen today is what the PC brigade have created, but they will never admit to that.

No doubt others will comment much more experienced in the causes of crime and youth crime than I am?. 

David


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## william dillon

Pusser509 said:


> I would hope that if they ever come to trial and actually get convicted, that they are required to reimburse all of the costs incurred: plaques, police, punitive damage for the effect on relatives of those named on the plaques, etc.
> 
> There is a trend in the West toward not being responsible for one's own actions. That must now change or we are on a slippery slope toward anarchy.
> 
> Just my thoughts.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Don K.


Don, you will find that the B******s don't work so you have absolutly no chance of getting any compensation out of them, a severe hiding would do the trick for me !!(Cloud)


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## benjidog

For the record, those arrested are reported to be 31, 37 and 39 years old and not teenagers. Certainly old enough to know better.

I have to say I agree with those who would not want these people working alongside them - at least not until they had joined the human race.

I hope there is a good turn-out for their trial. I would take time off work to go myself it it was anywhere near to where I live. Maybe one of our members can give us some feedback when the time comes?

Brian


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## Chouan

Interesting assumption that they would be kids don't you think?


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## benjidog

I write this post with an equal measures of despair and disgust, as it seems that this is just the latest in a series of acts of this kind. Anyone with high blood pressure is advised to take one of their pills before checking out these links:

Sept 2007 near Sheffield: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/south_yorkshire/7000852.stm

May 2007 at Teeside: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/tees/6683977.stm

Jan 2008 Isle of Mann: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/isle_of_man/7185812.stm

And there are plenty more related to thefts of one-off memorial plaques and bronze works of art.

Brian


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## Chouan

I remember a conversation between my father and my grandmother about a similar crime in Hartlepool, I would guess in the late 60's, involving the theft of a memorial to the Boer War. 
Nothing to do with the "PC brigade" then, I'd have thought.


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## Pompeyfan

No era is free of mindless idiots, when I was at sea, all those causing trouble were brought up in the same era as me. 

Interesting to learn of the age groups of these people, but not a surprise because my sons are 33 and 43 and neither had the same discipline at school that I did but did at home, so one also needs to look at the way these people are brought up whatever their age. It would certainly be wrong to brand all youngsters as vandals but knife crimes of late have certainly involved younger people. And don't forget the Goanese Sailor murdered in Fawley. They were all teenagers. Something is clearly wrong. 

At the end of the day it is the way people are brought up, and in general with the amount of violence on our streets with even the Home Secretary scared to go out alone at night something is clearly wrong with today's society. 

I don't need to take any more blood pressure pills Brian, I already rattle as it is with taking so many different types (EEK) 

David


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## ROBERT HENDERSON

Hi Pompeyfan
I noticed on another posting you give your date of birth as 1944. I actually went to school during the war years. There were no comprehensives it was called elementary school, or high school or grammer. To get the higher education your parents had to pay or you passed a scholarship as I did. At the High school I went to we had to wear school uniform to and from school.Right from the beginning we were taught to take pride in our school and ourselves. During the war a lot of younger policemen were called up, so with the doddery old men we had we could have really got up to wrongdoing, we never did because if caught we got a clip round the ear from the copper, if my father saw I had been crying I would get smacked again, we got up to mischief, some things in retrospect were silly and could have caused some people to have a heart attack, things like using caps to cause to cause a bang as people walked past, but it was never done with malicious intent. One problem now is parents don't disipline their kids and teacher are frightened too. When the s*** that stole those plaques from the war memorial get charged and get a prison sentence, they will probably end up with more than they get at home.
Robert


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## Pompeyfan

ROBERT HENDERSON said:


> Hi Pompeyfan
> I noticed on another posting you give your date of birth as 1944. I actually went to school during the war years. There were no comprehensives it was called elementary school, or high school or grammer. To get the higher education your parents had to pay or you passed a scholarship as I did. At the High school I went to we had to wear school uniform to and from school.Right from the beginning we were taught to take pride in our school and ourselves. During the war a lot of younger policemen were called up, so with the doddery old men we had we could have really got up to wrongdoing, we never did because if caught we got a clip round the ear from the copper, if my father saw I had been crying I would get smacked again, we got up to mischief, some things in retrospect were silly and could have caused some people to have a heart attack, things like using caps to cause to cause a bang as people walked past, but it was never done with malicious intent. One problem now is parents don't disipline their kids and teacher are frightened too. When the s*** that stole those plaques from the war memorial get charged and get a prison sentence, they will probably end up with more than they get at home.
> Robert


Great post Robert, if the discipline today was as in your day, our streets would be far safer.

I went to Infant school 5 to 11 then Secondary School, both very strict and a local bobby who would clip you round the ear. 

If the s*** who stole the plaques are charged and receive a jail sentence I doubt if they will be in there long. The is no discipline these days and little to no deterrent either with soft sentences. 

David


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## Chouan

I assume that your knowledge of what prison life is like is based on the Daily Mail and Daily Express. If you saw "Criminal Justice" on the BBC last week, you'll have got a far more realistic view. It isn't pleasant. Soft sentences, my @rse. My wife occasionally has to visit prisons through her work; she thought the deadful conditions portrayed in this were very realistic.

The lack of respect that we all decry is nothing to do with the "PC Brigade" that some of you blame for every thing, it is more to do with the increase in selfishness that was developed in the 1980's, when the government of the time told us that there was no such thing as society and that money was everything and that we had to look after ourselves. Council Houses were sold off, communities were broken up, and we became a Nation of self-seekers. These people that you think, rightly, as s***, are simply the product of that new society that was created then. Other peoples' feelings mean nothing to them, not because it is PC to encourage this, actually, the "PC Brigade" encourage people to do the opposite, to consider other peoples' feelings.


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## Peter4447

Chouan
Life in any penal institution is never pleasant but prisoners go to prison as a punishment and not for punishment.
I am being perfectly serious over this and would suggest that if you really want a realistic view of daily life inside, then watch the old TV comedy programme 'Porridge' with Ronnie Barker as Norman Stanley Fletcher!
Peter(Thumb) 
PS - I spent 13 years working as a Discipline Officer in both a Maximum Security and a Young Offenders Institution.


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## Chouan

I'm sure that your experience was valid for the time that you worked there. My wife works there now. She finds that the horrors of the current set up is as much a deterrent as one could imagine.

The short sentences are again, nothing to do with what is described as the "PC Brigade", but everything to do with our current government's failed criminal justice system, with too many people in prison, hence no room for prisoners, so minimal sentences. A violent assault by a Premier League footballer gets a 6 Month sentence and he's out after less than 6 weeks, despite a concurrent suspended sentence for a similar offence. Nothing to do with "PC" everything to do with a lack of joined up thinking in the system.


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## ssr481

Steve Woodward said:


> I hope we are talking about one of the felons being cut into four - preferably after hanging and drawing (Cloud)


They oughta shoot the s***bag SOBs... to descecrate any memorial to any who served their country is a crime of the highest order. 

Some time ago, somebody caused substantial damage to the memorial to the 74th Pennsylvania Infantry at Gettysburg.. the driver of the car who damaged the memorial was charged, convicted of drunk driving, sentenced and also forced to cover the costs of restoring the memorial.


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## Pompeyfan

Chouan

I read what you say with interest, but I never read the Daily Mail or Daily Express. 

David


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## Peter4447

Chouan
You have asked us to accept your view that life in prison isn't pleasant which you apparently base on watching the BBC TV programme 'Criminal Justice' and the views held by good lady who "occasionally has to visit prisons through her work".
In order for any penal establishment to function the basic 24/7 routines do not change, any more than the 'horrors' such as the stabbings, fights, drug abuse, riots etc that as a Prison Officer I had to deal with on a daily basis, that were part and parcel of the sub-culture of prison life during my service and which are no different today (this is according to a number of friends who are still serving officers).
During my service and I don't think this will have changed, it was the duty for all Prison Officers to escort (for their safety) outside visitors such as Probabtion officers, teachers, Penal reformers, Ministers of Religion and members of the laity, solicitors, health professionals and various tradesman on a daily basis. The difference between these people entering a prison and officers is, of course, that they saw only a small part of the daily life upon which they then based their opinion of life inside. 
One Governor I served under actually encouraged officers to take their wives around the Prison to let them see what life was like inside. My Wife actually found it a frightening experience and even though the inmates were all safely locked in their cells she asked to leave long before we had seen all round. As a result of her visit do I accept her view of what life is like inside?
Peter


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## Chouan

"In order for any penal establishment to function the basic 24/7 routines do not change, any more than the 'horrors' such as the stabbings, fights, drug abuse, riots etc that as a Prison Officer I had to deal with on a daily basis, that were part and parcel of the sub-culture of prison life during my service and which are no different today (this is according to a number of friends who are still serving officers)."

I'm sorry, I thought that you suggested that a realistic view could be gained by watching "Porridge". 

"I am being perfectly serious over this and would suggest that if you really want a realistic view of daily life inside, then watch the old TV comedy programme 'Porridge' "

I can't remember seeing any stabbings or drug abuse there, or did I miss it? Perhaps you were being sarcastic. If so, could let us know, so that we know when we can take your comments seriously.

Finally, are you saying that my wife's view was right or wrong? What you've said above rather seems to be agreeing with her.


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## ROBERT HENDERSON

CHOUAN
Does your wife visit Leyhill open prison in Gloustershire? The information I have on this did not come from the Daily Mail or Daily Express but from the local Television news.
In there they have widescreen television, a well stocked library and a pitch and putt golf course.
Many of the prisoners there have commited murder, sex crimes and other violent crimes. Walkouts from there are a regular feature on our local news. If these people have been rehabilitated why are the public warned not to approach them when they go on the run?
The facilities there that were shown are better than a lot of pensioners can afford, pensioners who served this country.
My own politics are left wing as I believe in a fairer world, but, I also consider myself to be a realist and that people who commit crimes forfeit their human rights.
Not so long ago a prisoner sued the prison authorities because his mattress was to hard. You certainly couldn't make that up.
Robert


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## Ted Else

Choan,
I agree whole heartedly with your comments re- the 80's 'revolution' - it was a sea change in the attitudes of this nation. 'We' have become a society of greedy - self seeking people - and we are now reaping some of the 'benefits' with such behaviour. This society stinks!!


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## Chouan

Robert, no, she only visits conventional prisons through her work, and no, I don't know which ones, as she isn't permitted to tell me. They certainly don't enjoy the facilities that you describe.


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## Peter4447

No Chouan I was not being sarcastic over 'Porridge' - take a few examples from some of the episodes.

Fletcher throwing the Chaplain over the balcony through frustration.
A prisoner putting four 'screws' in hospital when he was upset.
McLaren staging a roof top protest over Blanco's parole.
The riot organised to get Barraclough reinstated back to the wing and to get rid of the Senior Officer from Brixton.
Grouty the Tobacco and Drug Baron with his strong armed minders.
Fletcher having to smuggle in a Passport from an outside hospital for an escape.
The theft of food from the Kitchens and the theft of drugs from the Hospital.
The gun made in a prison workshop and used to take hostages.
The constant illegal gambling and the illicit home made booze. 
Although incorporated into a comedy programme these are all situations taken from the harsh reality of prison life and are as applicable now as when the series was made in the 1970's. 

I cannot comment one way or the other on your good lady's views as all I know of her actual experience of life inside is that she "occasionally has to visit prisons through her work"
Peter


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## chadburn

There have always been the "Duckers and Divers" in this world especially when it comes to scrap metal, It use to be Fire Bars off the old coal jobs which even in those days bought a decent price for the "Errant" Fireman and a bit of baccy money, The people that the Police need to focus on are the Scrappies, if they don't buy the missing items there is no market value that is why in the Mag Courts the "Fence" will get the higher sentence that's if it is done correctly. As far as Prison conditions are concerned there are some prisons that do not have a lot of facilities but nevertheless the conditions are far better than my Son had at Junior leaders Reg. In regards to the modern prisons you would not believe the facilities they have any School would be proud to have them and the inmates or as they like to be known "CLIENTS" still trash them when their evening meal is late they even have their own cell door key!. From a Court point of view "Criminal Justice" was well written as it showed some of the "Plea Bargaining" that goes on and it's not about Justice but money which the C.P.S. base on the likelyhood of a Conviction if they prosecute otherwise they will accept a Guilty plea on a lesser charge, it was obviously written by a legal person. The World has gone MAD we now reward people for bad behaviour, even the Duke of Edinburgh Award which use to be for people who did good works is now open to the Criminal Element to try and "Change Their Ways" unfortunatly it is normally a Family Thing to carry on thieving and they do not know any different , it is as previously said a breakdown in discipline, there is one thing for sure they do not want to go back to a Turkish Prison. The punishment IS sending someone to Prison but it has to be a punishing regime for it to be successful , 3,6, to a Cell I don't care, they are not there to enjoy themselves which is what they appear to be doing because they keep wanting to go back!! When The so called "Human Rights Act" came into being sentencing became a nightmare because the Act appears to forget about the "Human Rights of the Victim/s


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## ROBERT HENDERSON

CHADBURN
Well posted.
Robert


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## Chouan

Peter4447 said:


> No Chouan I was not being sarcastic over 'Porridge' - take a few examples from some of the episodes.
> 
> Fletcher throwing the Chaplain over the balcony through frustration.
> A prisoner putting four 'screws' in hospital when he was upset.
> McLaren staging a roof top protest over Blanco's parole.
> The riot organised to get Barraclough reinstated back to the wing and to get rid of the Senior Officer from Brixton.
> Grouty the Tobacco and Drug Baron with his strong armed minders.
> Fletcher having to smuggle in a Passport from an outside hospital for an escape.
> The theft of food from the Kitchens and the theft of drugs from the Hospital.
> The gun made in a prison workshop and used to take hostages.
> The constant illegal gambling and the illicit home made booze.
> Although incorporated into a comedy programme these are all situations taken from the harsh reality of prison life and are as applicable now as when the series was made in the 1970's.
> 
> I cannot comment one way or the other on your good lady's views as all I know of her actual experience of life inside is that she "occasionally has to visit prisons through her work"
> Peter


Sorry, I take your point. I missed most of the series as I was away at sea. I thought it was just a comedy series.


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## ddraigmor

Chouan said:


> I assume that your knowledge of what prison life is like is based on the Daily Mail and Daily Express. If you saw "Criminal Justice" on the BBC last week, you'll have got a far more realistic view. It isn't pleasant. Soft sentences, my @rse. My wife occasionally has to visit prisons through her work; she thought the deadful conditions portrayed in this were very realistic.
> 
> The lack of respect that we all decry is nothing to do with the "PC Brigade" that some of you blame for every thing, it is more to do with the increase in selfishness that was developed in the 1980's, when the government of the time told us that there was no such thing as society and that money was everything and that we had to look after ourselves. Council Houses were sold off, communities were broken up, and we became a Nation of self-seekers. These people that you think, rightly, as s***, are simply the product of that new society that was created then. Other peoples' feelings mean nothing to them, not because it is PC to encourage this, actually, the "PC Brigade" encourage people to do the opposite, to consider other peoples' feelings.


Chouan,

What prisons would they be then? In my line of work I also get to see inmates in both Young Offenders and Adult prisons and in secure hospitals. 3 square meals a day,education and employment, PlayStations and Pool Tables, time from Counsellors and Occupational Therapists, Gym, 'Personal Choice' sessions. free laundry facilities, medical and dental care - not quite corrective punishment methinks! Personally, I'd rather see them in abyssmal conditions related to their crimes. After all, they are wrong doers and we treat them all with kid gloves as they also have rights - ******** to those they rode roughshod over!

Part 2 of your post, however, is bang on.

I work with some pretty serious s***bags - not all but a few - and recently one is planning a 'day of interest' which he has decided is a day out to Madame Tussauds. Three staff will accompany him, he will have free transport there and back, a full day out and come back to beddy by by's in his little space with its PS3, HD TV and a stereo I can only drool over. Yes, he is likely to serve another 5 years for wehat he has done - but c'mon! Arson with intent (he almost killed a young family) - but he is better off in than he ever was outside!

These barstewards who have done these despicable deeds have affronted all right thinking men and women. They have desecrated a grave site, torn up memory and shown no respect. I stand by what I say: Put the buggers in a room full of ex servicemen and let them get the message across that what they have done is worse than despicable.....

Jonty


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## ROBERT HENDERSON

Just read in a local Bristol newspaper, A teenager was vandalising a War memorial, a 50 year old lady weent to make a citizens arrest by alledgedly catching him by the neck. This lady is now in court charged with assault.

OFF topic, I have just read on local Ceefax pages that Bristol council want to cut back shrubland on Bristol Downs. The gay advisory authority have told them they cannot as it would be discrimanatory againt gays, lesbians and transvestites sex life.
Hard to believe but true.
Robert.


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## Pompeyfan

ROBERT HENDERSON said:


> Just read in a local Bristol newspaper, A teenager was vandalising a War memorial, a 50 year old lady weent to make a citizens arrest by alledgedly catching him by the neck. This lady is now in court charged with assault.
> 
> OFF topic, I have just read on local Ceefax pages that Bristol council want to cut back shrubland on Bristol Downs. The gay advisory authority have told them they cannot as it would be discrimanatory againt gays, lesbians and transvestites sex life.
> Hard to believe but true.
> Robert.



Spot on Robert, what I have been trying to say all along, the law seems to be on the side of the criminal. Call it PC or whatever we like but something is badly wrong with society when you try to stop a crime only to get done yourself or that it would upset a few gays if shrub land is cut back. It would be funny if it were not so serious (Cloud) 

And it is no good blaming the 80s as the cause of all of today's problems and people attitudes as in one post. That was nearly 30 years ago changing an even worse era where we could not even bury our dead because of strikes. We could not provide dignity for any of them in my department. But both are the past, this is today, a Government in power long enough to put things right not keep harking on about the past. Past governments and eras can no longer be blamed for what is happening today, a society becoming so lawless that many people are too frightened to go out or not being able to afford to with the cost of living rocketing. A society where the NHS is in a far worse state than ever before, and I can speak on that matter with great authority, and retired police officers tell me they would not want to be in the force now. It is time to stop blaming the past start finding answers which this government has so far failed to do. 

Forget about the past, this is the here and now where s*** take war plaques and will almost certainly get a soft sentence possibly not even going to jail. 

I was hoping you would comment Jonty. It was you I had in mind in post 33 when I mentioned somebody more experienced than me on this issue. At least the inmates you speak of will not have to worry about the price of petrol and food (MAD) 

I know a couple of people who are in and out of jail all the time. When they get out they offend again because they tell me themselves that they will only get another few months where they don't have to worry about bills or buying food. They put two fingers up to authority and indeed society. Re-offending can be anything from stealing or not paying priority bills. They also see going back inside as a badge of honour. Therefore what you say Jonty confirms everything they tell me. They don't give a four X, not in the least bit concerned about going back inside. Perhaps they are lucky and in good jails  

David


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## ddraigmor

David et al,

I think the biggest irritation for me is the audacity of solicitors and the like who defend the guilty with such elequence and belief, I wonder about reality! I recently had a disciplinary for calling one solicitor 'dippy'. Actually I was thinking more basic but company being present etc......he wanted to move an offender back to his father - who is 85 and who he expected to supervise him initially. Despite the fact that the offender had made a death threat against the neighbours - and frequently talks of revenge! At my disciplinary I said that I stood by what I had said and with the advice of my union wrote a two line apology. I didn't want to but hey ho.....

OK that's off topic but the point is what every right thinking person believes - we are far too soft on offenders. The Citizen's Arrest should have gone ahead and the gay community should stop trying to push their needs on the rest of us - but, oh dear, we can't do that because of equality and Human Rights. I really despiar the way things are going and I know from talking to psychiatrists, police officers etc that they feel the same. In fact one of the senior nurses said the other day it makes her so angry to see offenders being given so much because we can't have them being bored can we? Oh and with raising prices, above inflation MP's salaries and their precious expenses being more than the average wage, what chance have decent folk of doing much more than survive? Not the same for the inmates though......

We should have US style prisons here - and if a few of the inmates riot and get kliled, well that's a saving isn't it? One less on the streets, one less burden on my rising tax demands. Sorry if that offends liberals but I think that I am not alone in believing enough is enough. Crime is crime and it is against society - these people deserve to be punished not mollycoddled. 

Many of my family served in the Army and Navy, my brother and his wife are still in the RAF and my daughter will hopefully be going in later this year. Ours is a tradition of service and duty and what has happened to the memorials shocks us all. This is, alas, a symptom of our age as many have pointed out - but how long can we stand by and allow this slide into anarchy?

Enough is enough - and when Labour are ousted here in a local election by the BNP, surely that is saying something?

Jonty


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## Ted Else

Well David,
If you cannot blame the 'past', who or what, is the reason for this total lack of respect for our war hero's may I ask? I am afraid I am not convinced by your statements. I believe - you DO reap what you sow - and we are certainly 'reaping' now.
Can I have a Form please.


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## Pompeyfan

Ted Else said:


> Well David,
> If you cannot blame the 'past', who or what, is the reason for this total lack of respect for our war hero's may I ask? I am afraid I am not convinced by your statements. I believe - you DO reap what you sow - and we are certainly 'reaping' now.
> Can I have a Form please.


The post I was referring to was blaming the 80s for the problems we now face. My point is that you cannot pluck one decade out as the *only* reason for today's problems. It goes far deeper than that, even if it did leave scars but that can be said for all eras. Yes, plenty of mistakes were made in the 80s. In the NHS it was the Griffith Report 1983. That was a disaster. But equal mistakes have been made by governments of all parties during my lifetime, and you cannot single out any as the *only* reason for today's problems. That is the point I was trying to make, but as I have said before, I am hopeless at getting my point across in print.

I have however said more than once that we need to look back at history to help solve problems of today, so I agree totally with you Ted. If we can't learn from the past, what can we learn from?. We were learning every day from the job I did, learning about illness that we would have otherwise not found out. Therefore, the same principle applies to all areas of life. 

David


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## sparkie2182

the solicitors dont argue with belief.........just for money.

take that away and the eloquence would soon dry up


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## benjidog

This thread is about stolen war memorial plaques and the distress caused thereby. If you want a thread about "how Maggie ruined the country" or whatever then have start another thread (on second thought don't!).

Can we get back to the topic please.

And can I remind you all that these plaques were not stolen by kids but by adults.

Brian


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## Pompeyfan

Brian

Do we know if they have been charged yet?. 

I don't think age matters when it comes to those with criminal minds caused by their upbringing or whatever. Some people are always evil.

The lady so emotionally affected by this could well be let down when this s*** are convicted or having to re-live it all again whatever their sentence. Who knows what it may do to her own health, and the health of others affected because many would be elderly and not in the best of health anyway?. 

It is also a worrying time for other people wondering if memorial plaques of their own loved ones could also be stolen. 

I am not sure if members realize or not but one of the plaques stolen was 3ft square. The thieves returned 24 hours later and prised off another three. The stolen plaques were inscribed with a list of more than 400 sailors and Royal Marines who lost their lives in the two world wars. It happened just hours after National Veterans Day took place in the city.

David


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## Gavin Gait

Police target rising metal thefts ( BBC )

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7494044.stm

That story is whats really behind thefts like this. Organised crime looking to make money from scrap metal.


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## pete

benjidog said:


> This thread is about stolen war memorial plaques and the distress caused thereby. If you want a thread about "how Maggie ruined the country" or whatever then have start another thread (on second thought don't!).
> 
> Can we get back to the topic please.
> 
> And can I remind you all that these plaques were not stolen by kids but by adults.
> 
> Brian


 Brian, we have gone off topic I agree, how does this sound to you?? 6 weeks training with the army then put them in the field and use them as cannon fodder, that might save some our highly trained and professional soldiers who, let's face it, are, arguably, the best in the world.

Sorry chaps, had to have my final say on this topic as a friend of mine has just lost his Grandson out there........................pete


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## Pompeyfan

Davey

Thanks for that information, certainly explains the situation a lot better. Still no excuse stealing war memorial plaques, but these thieves have no soul anyway putting profit before emotional values. 

It also explains why an unmarked police car stopped when I was taking a picture of daffodils in our local church yard. It turned out there had been a lot of thefts in churches.

Dreadful time time for your friend Pete. I have grandchildren and would be devastated if I lost them in such a way. Our thoughts are with your friend at this sad time.

David


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## chadburn

In regards to Solicitor's, if they actually believed that their clients were innocent and only "Took Up" those cases they would be bankrupt within a month. As indicated in "Criminal Justice" their advice is to say nothing and let the CPS prove their case which applies whether you are a Motorist or a Criminal, the same advice is giving by your Motor Insurance Company! Today's Justice system is based on money (not the right's and wrongs of the Case). With the CPS. it is based on the cost effectiveness of the Case and whether they are likely get a Guilty verdict. With the Defendents it is for those with money, who can afford the "Mr Loopholes" and for the other's, who in the District has a good reputation amongst the Criminals for getting people off?, this type of Solicitor is seen normally driving a Porsche GT3 paid for by Legal Aid which of course is paid for by you and me. In my first contribution I made a mistake when I said that "Clients have the key to their own Cell" you are not allowed to call them Cells they are now "Rooms". Getting back to the Plaques the answer is in my view is that we remove the Bronze Plaques and use them as the Master to mould Plastic Copies either in Bronze coloured plastic or black plastic painted Bronze. When most of the Plaques were made Plastic was not available as a weatherproof material, the type of material is not important it is the names on the Plaque that we pay Tribute to. The Bronze Plaque can be kept safe elsewhere and used as the Master Mould if they are stupid enough to Vandalise/ Steal the plastic one. Unfortunatly it is going to cost us money but at a lot less cost than having to replace a Bronze one every time or lose the memory of the brave people on them becuase the Plaque is no longer there


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## Peter4447

chadburn said:


> the answer is in my view is that we remove the Bronze Plaques and use them as the Master to mould Plastic Copies either in Bronze coloured plastic or black plastic painted Bronze. When most of the Plaques were made Plastic was not available as a weatherproof material, the type of material is not important it is the names on the Plaque that we pay Tribute to. The Bronze Plaque can be kept safe elsewhere and used as the Master Mould if they are stupid enough to Vandalise/ Steal the plastic one. Unfortunatly it is going to cost us money but at a lot less cost than having to replace a Bronze one every time or lose the memory of the brave people on them becuase the Plaque is no longer there


Obviously I respect your view Geordie Chief but my view is that bronze has long been the traditional tribute and to me the use of plastic smacks of the 'throw away' society in which we live and giving in to these despicable morons. 
The answer surely is that the low-life should never have stolen them in the first place and when they are caught and punished, the sentance should be so severe that neither they or any other common thief would ever want to go anywhere near or lay a finger on these memorials again. 
Those named on those plaques gave their lives and tomorrows so those morons could enjoy living in freedom today and by their despicable act, in my book, they have forfeited the right to that freedom for a very long time indeed - I'll settle for 10 years with no parole and no early release and to hell with the PC Brigade!
Peter4447


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## sparkie2182

if the plaques were made of solid gold i doubt if the likes of the regular contibutors here would even touch them, let alone steal them.
the answer lies elsewhere.


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## chadburn

Thank You for respecting my view Pete and it was no disrespect on my part to use a Plastic Substitute however barring for "Kids" vandalising them and believe me the "kids" are well protected by the P.C. brigade these day's, it is very difficult to give them what you and I would consider to be a realistic punishment for the damage and disrespect shown without some do-gooder sounding off next day in the local paper and their Solicitor taking it to an Appeal where the punishment will be reduced/realigned. The main problem is theft mainly done by a certain sector of the population who after being caught go to Court and are granted Bail to appear on another date (even if they are caught with the Plaque in their hands they will plead Not Guilty and say they found it!!) Under the "Rules" every body has a right to Bail and it is very difficult ( under those damned Human Rights Laws ) to find good reason (which now have to be putdown in a full arguement) to refuse Bail for someone who maintains "he just found it" honestly Your Worships. When he is due to appear in Court for a pre -Trial Reveiw he and his "home" are long gone and the Police cannot trace them so the Case is marked Dis- continued as it is not cost effective to try and find him. This type is not a true Romany but one of the Duckers and Divers of this World which we pick up the Tab for when they move on and the rubbish they leave has to be cleaned up. It is as I feel both Sparkie and Ted have intimated a lack of self discipline which needs correcting either by "Boot Camps" or the style of imprisionment used in S.E. Asia unfortunatly that is not going to happen here because of the Human Right's Act which of course does not apply in S.E. Asia. We are losing the War on Crime thats for sure unless we have more Police like the former Inspector Mallon in the North East whose department took a proactive approach to the Criminals by hounding them at every oppurtunity which meant that they did not dare to leave their homes permanent or mobile (rather than it being the potential victims) instead of the re-active (when we can get around to it) response from the Police the public normally gets. His methods were sometimes "questionable" but sometimes the end justify's the means when dealing with people who have no moral Fibre.


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## Pompeyfan

Both the BBC and Sky News are covering the theft of metal with police across the UK visiting scrap yards and stopping vehicles involving 38 police forces. Experts estimate the illegal metal trade costs the economy nearly £360m per year with theft of metals rising 150% over the last two years. More memorial plaques have been stolen across the country and they reckon the propellers of Britannia was stolen for scrap. 

David


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## ROBERT HENDERSON

Geordie Chief
I was watching Newsnight some months ago when the Human Rights act was being debated. A leading Barrister pointed out that it was not the Human Rights act that was at fault but the implementation and interpretation of the act. He also pointed out that our legistrators could add clauses to prevent it being misused by criminals and their lawyers.
Robert


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## Chouan

Exactly, it isn't the "PC Brigade" as people keep describing it, but the exploitative legal system that are the people to blame.


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## chadburn

Pompey, that's why I elected to go for plastic replacements unfortunatly, hopefully before the Bronze plaques disappear forever, plastic would save Police time and the paperwork that goes with any theft plus when the "scally's" dump the damaged plastic plaque it can be recycled into fence posts or 
decking for the garden! it would not be thrown away.

Robert, in regards to changing parts of the Human Rights Act, in my experience the interpretion of the Human Rights Act by Barristers/Solicitors depends on whether they are Defending or Prosecuting or looking for advancement in the Legal World and hope that the right people are watching!! they are Chameleon's or possibly Comedian's. Most of them should be Actor's as they play to the Public Gallery, you can only apply the Law as it stands. British Law is in a mess as it ranges from where you can tie your horse& carriage to the changes enforced by Brussel's.


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## ddraigmor

A relative of mine has his name on the Portsmouth Memorial - lost due to being blown up by a mine on HMT 'Merse' in 1917.

Now it's personal. I also watched the news item on it and the veteran they spoke to was incandescent with rage, as well he would be.

It's time we made a stand for common sense and justice and started to hand out realistic punishments to fit the crime rather than holidays and re-education courses for them.

Jonty


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## Pompeyfan

Geordie Chief

I understand exactly what you are saying regarding electing for plastic replacements, but it is important to understand the emotions of those affected some of whom are affected in different ways.

I am not in a position to decide whether war memorial plaques should be plastic, bronze or whatever. I am however in a position due to my former job to know how emotion affects those who have lost loved-ones be it through war or peacetime.

They would see the theft of these plaques in the same manner as if thieves stole their loved one. The plaque whatever it is made of at the time would be seen by many people as a permanent reminder of that person. A replacement would simply not be the same, it is like having a limb removed and replaced by an artificial one. We all grieve in our own way but in my job there was certainly a common theme. It is a bit like couples who lose a child. Their favourite toy or something else is sometimes left at the graveside. If some low life steal these or vandalise the grave these items cannot be replaced in the emotions of the parents and family. In truth, identical replacements can be found, or even made, but it is not the same because that child is within that toy, they become the toy in peoples emotions, it is a comfort that allows them to grieve.

These plaques are exactly the same. The original whatever it is made from IS that person, a sense of comfort. NOTHING will replace it, even if made of the worlds finest jewels. 

In the future perhaps plaques for those who die in conflict can be made out of indestructible material that has no value for greedy s***. But they would be valuable emotionally to grieving relatives, a value that low life never will understand. The ideal situation of course would be that none of our troops die in the future, but nothing will ever replace plaques already stolen in the emotions of relatives affected.

David


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## chadburn

I am of the age were I have a number of relatives that are mentioned on Plaques and can remember my Father who was at Belsen and my Uncle who was with the Chindits and the change in character they both had as a result of what they had been involved in so I have lived with the effects of War and I fully understand the upset a missing/damaged plaque can cause and not being able to touch the name of a loved one, but it is the names that we mourn the material is immaterial. As far as a suitable punishment for the toe rags is concerned, as I have said previously we are losing the War on crime, because the Police are now reactive not proactive and the Courts are restricted to sentencing policy by a "Committee" who only today have said that Burglars should not be put in Prison. Justice is all about MONEY the effect it has on the victims has gone out of the window I am sad to say.


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## Santos

I have just seen  *this * story on TV - and I just feel despair for this country - how much lower can people go, with the thefts from the War Memorials and now this which includes soldiers graves.

Chris.


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## Ted Else

Very sad indeed Chris,what is happening to our once proud country?
Locally, to me (East England) our news this evening is that a plaque was taken from a soldier's grave, recently killed in Afghanistan (Anglia Regiment). The family are devestated.


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## Peter4447

Ted Else said:


> Very sad indeed Chris,what is happening to our once proud country?
> Locally, to me (East England) our news this evening is that a plaque was taken from a soldier's grave, recently killed in Afghanistan (Anglia Regiment). The family are devestated.


Just looked it up on the BBC News Site Ted - there are no words to describe these mindless morons who havn't got a single shred of human decency.
Peter


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## Succour

*Lost Pride*

Definately a case for bringing back the Triad of Trinities.

Here in Malaysia they use a 10mm diameter Ratan cane.

Aided by one Burly Indian lad who takes a run up before unleashing the stroke.

Normally after 3 strokes on the buttocks the legs buckle, and that is a young strong male.

A bucket of Linament is produced and is applied with a 3 inch brush as the wounds are very severe. 


Succour


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## Phill

*I thought I’d have a look at this thread again*, 

It took a year but the bastards been jailed. SOME HEAD CASE ??? But not long enough
*Sex offender tried to sell war plaques*

*http://www.thisiswesternmorningnews.co.uk/news/Sex-offender-tried-sell-war-memorial-plaques/article-1074260-detail/article.html*

*phill (Cloud) *


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## Phill

No Balls cut off , No Hanging, No Stocks, No Sticking the ba**ards in a room full of ex servicemen and locking the doors, and definitely not being put to the public. *but not long enough*.
http://www.thisiswesternmorningnews...l-plaques/article-1074260-detail/article.html

Phill (Cloud)


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## Billieboy

They must be really stupid to try this in a Roal Navy town. Would love to hear that they slipped in the shower!


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