# Wm Cooper & Sons of Widness



## Weyport

Hi

I'm try to establish which of the following William Cooper & Sons vessels were aggregate dredgers and if they were, were they suction or grab loaders? Were any motor ships?

Eric Cooper 
P.M. Cooper
S.E.Cooper
William Cooper built 1909
William Cooper built 1925
William Cooper built 1965
Grinkle acquired 1926 (lost with all hands 1928)
Sandmail
Severn

Thanks for any information.

Take care out there.

Paul


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## danube4

Weyport said:


> Hi
> 
> I'm try to establish which of the following William Cooper & Sons vessels were aggregate dredgers and if they were, were they suction or grab loaders? Were any motor ships?
> 
> Eric Cooper
> P.M. Cooper
> S.E.Cooper
> William Cooper built 1909
> William Cooper built 1925
> William Cooper built 1965
> Grinkle acquired 1926 (lost with all hands 1928)
> Sandmail
> Severn
> 
> Thanks for any information.
> 
> Take care out there.
> 
> Paul




Hi Paul, I was deckhand on the, S.F.PEARCE, & EMILY, William Cooper & son
in 1952.E


S.F.PEARCE was a ex schooner converted to a sand hopper, and loaded by bucket dredger.

EMILY. hopper, loaded by bucket dredger.

MARY P COOPER. hopper loaded by bucket dredge.

ELIZABETH COOPER. hopper loaded by bucket dredger.

WILLIAM COOPER. bucket dredger. Cannot remember which one.

Can't remember the others.

All the best.

Barney.


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## Weyport

*Coopers of Widness*

Very many thanks for that Barney

Can you remember which areas in the Mersey / Liverpool Bay Coopers dredged and which berths / ports their vessels discharged at?

Do you know if any of their berths had a facility to take wet / pump ashore cargoes?

I assume the William Cooper, being a bucket dredger, only worked in the shelter of the Mersey and could not be exposed to the open sea. Correct?

Regards

Paul


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## bob2bob

Coopers I am pretty sure had a berth in Warrington entrance on the MSC, I think, in the 50s or 60s, one of their ships sank after a collision on that stretch of canal, I can`t be sure if it was not the Mary, the canal was closed till it was raised, they also had a berth in West Bank dock Widnes, I worked with one of their ex skippers (1968-69) called Len Johnson real character.


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## KEITH SEVILLE

bOb2bob

Coopers did have a berth at Warrington and they also had berths at Canning Dock, Liverpool where you could see the sand silos from the Mersey. The silos were situated on the north of Caning Dock.
The Mary P.Cooper was involved in a collision with the Foamville.
There was an exclusive in the Sea Breezes Magazine some years ago.

Regards
Keith


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## bob2bob

Try googling "Tales from the old inland waterways" there is a good chapter by an old skipper of mine Tommy Kelly, covering his time on the canal from upper Mersey bouy boat, Coopers( including the Elizabeth Cooper hitting the Mancunian), and TUg Work.


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## Chris B

Hi Paul,
The S E Cooper was the old coaster Broomfield Built 1938. IDNo:5530375.
BU Silloth 15 09 65.I remember as a child doing a trip on her from Manchester Pomona docks to load sand from a bucket dredger off New Brighton and back.Laying in the corner of the dock was the Mary P Cooper, I can see her now looking very muddy awaiting the gas axe.Another interesting sand hopper was the Alpha circa 1890,s same fleet, I did a trip on that too and learnt to steer( steam steering engine) stood on a wooden box.

Regard's
Chris B.


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## danube4

Hi Paul, Mary P Cooper after collision with Foamville. Courtesy of

www.shipspotting.com/modules/myalbum/photo-68245-MARY+P+COOPER

Barney


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## Christoph

Hi Paul,
Coopers boats had the nasty habit of sinking; and sinking fast. My grandfather was lost on one of Coopers boats and my mothers brother was lost on an other. An old work mate was on the Mary P Cooper when she sank in the Manchester Ship Cannal after hitting a coaster. A neighbour of mine lost her brother on a fourth boat lost on the Mersey.
Would you know where I should start looking for details of coopers losses along with crew member details?

Christoph


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## Weyport

bob2bob said:


> Try googling "Tales from the old inland waterways" there is a good chapter by an old skipper of mine Tommy Kelly, covering his time on the canal from upper Mersey bouy boat, Coopers( including the Elizabeth Cooper hitting the Mancunian), and TUg Work.


Thanks Bob. I've now read the Kelly account and seen the photo of the William Cooper (one of 3 vessels of the same name owned by Coopers over the years). I now realise that most of the Cooper vessels were in fact simply barges which tied up alongside the dredgers William Cooper (and John Henry Cooper? and others?) which then discharged into them. Tom Kelly mentions "_We used to go alongside them and they had a grab or a sucker, depending on what material you'd to load: if it was fine sand...they'd put a big pipe from the sucker into your hold and it would come in like slurry_" 
Do you know how the William Cooper dredged, grab or suction pipe? and can you better explain how the whole operation worked?

Regards

Paul


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## bob2bob

Hi Paul
I will be going to Runcorn over the holidays, and I will ask my mate if he has any contacts, last I heard Tommy is still alive I will call and see him. Like myself he is an ex MSC tugman. 
John


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## bob2bob

Forgot the last William Cooper was suction, and discharged a Warrington Entrance on the MSC which is close to Chester rd swing bridge (upstream), I worked on Old Quay swing bridge with one of her ex skippers Len Johnson.


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## Weyport

Very many thanks for any additional information you can glean John ..when I volunteered to write a history of the UK's aggregate dredging industry, little did I know what I was taking on..I've already found more than 400 names of aggregate dredgers stretching back over 100 years ( 70+ recently "discovered" in the river Tay trade) and owned by some70 different companies.... surprisingly, the least helpful are companies still engaged in the trade. Regards Paul


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## tell

KEITH SEVILLE said:


> bOb2bob
> 
> Coopers did have a berth at Warrington and they also had berths at Canning Dock, Liverpool where you could see the sand silos from the Mersey. The silos were situated on the north of Caning Dock.
> The Mary P.Cooper was involved in a collision with the Foamville.
> There was an exclusive in the Sea Breezes Magazine some years ago.
> 
> Regards
> Keith


not sure but I think it was carriers dock that they berthed, they used to dredge off new brightoin landing stage


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## bob2bob

Try this link for West Bank Dock Widnes and most of the Mersey docks circa 1910. as West Bank was also a regular berth.
http://maps.cheshire.gov.uk/tithemaps/TwinMaps.aspx
John


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## pauline-ford

danube4 said:


> Hi Paul, I was deckhand on the, S.F.PEARCE, & EMILY, William Cooper & son
> in 1952.E
> 
> 
> S.F.PEARCE was a ex schooner converted to a sand hopper, and loaded by bucket dredger.
> 
> EMILY. hopper, loaded by bucket dredger.
> 
> MARY P COOPER. hopper loaded by bucket dredge.
> 
> ELIZABETH COOPER. hopper loaded by bucket dredger.
> 
> WILLIAM COOPER. bucket dredger. Cannot remember which one.
> 
> Can't remember the others.
> 
> All the best.
> 
> Barney.


hi my dad word on the nora cooper in the 50s


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## jimmybosun

*hi re lizzy cooper,*



pauline-ford said:


> hi my dad word on the nora cooper in the 50s


hi all,my big brother was on the lizzy cooper when she sank,his name was keeny nield,still alive and living in warrington,i started work for the ship canal as a telephone boy on western mersey lock in 1970,and i found a memmo going back yrs asking what instructions were given to the mv mancunian on her outward passage prior to her collision with the lizzy at ince cutting,on that cold winters morn,one of the crew drowned,i think he was actually related to me but not sure,i think his name was wainwright,he could not swim and refused to jump overboard to which r kenny threw him overboard then jumped in himself,


it resulted in r kenny getting perforated eardrums after which refusing to sail again,i used to go with him to warrington cutting and herculanium dock in liverpool while unloaded the eric,the grab could lift 4t at a time and i think were the only fixed jib cranes in the country,he used to tell me they were deathtraps and always crabbing when trying to steer,which is why i joined the msc and ended up working on the tug masc talisman instead,
hope this helps,jimmy,


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## Dogdays

Hello All
I believe my Grandfather, Arthur James Kenney, was with Coopers as company secretary during the 40,s and early 50,s. 
I have a retirement clock bearing the legend, "reminiscence reflects happy memories as time goes by. From the staff of Wm Cooper and Sons Ltd."
I also remember a small vessel called the A.J.K berthed at either Warrington or Widnes. I used to have a very faded photo of the AJK, but alas its been lost over the years. I also have barometer celebrating granddads marriage as gift from the "Widnes Speed Writing Association" . I am told this was the forerunner of shorthand. I also remember the family speaking of an Ida Cooper


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