# Can anyone identify this ship.



## stuart277 (Jun 1, 2015)

Hi all
My friend has a large (undated) panorama picture of Sydney Harbour. We are trying to get an estimate on when it was taken.
There are some large merchant ships in Sydney Cove, near where the Opera House stands today and another at the passenger terminal.
We know nothing about ships, but the picture is before the Harbour Bridge was started and there are some three masted sailing ships in other parts of the harbour.
There are two ships pictures and one ferry.
Any help would be appreciated
Cheers
Stuart


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## Mike Harrison (Jan 7, 2011)

Have you tried Flotilla-Australia.com? Maybe something there.


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## oilkinger (Dec 17, 2008)

Can't help with the ship names but you might be able to get info on the period.
In one of the pics there is a paddlewheel Sydney Harbour ferry.
1. If you Google ; Sydney paddlewheel ferries and click on "images' up will come several pics that look similar.
2. Hit up this website ; dictionaryofsydney.org/entry/ferries
Its an article on these old ferries by Garry Wotherspoon, an historian.
If you can contact him, and forward your pics, he may be able to fill in some gaps.


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## A.D.FROST (Sep 1, 2008)

black hull ORMUZ(Orient Line)


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## stuart277 (Jun 1, 2015)

*Thanks*

Hi All
Thanks for your replies.
I checked out the Orient Line, it could be the Ormuz II.
The ferry info was handy, found a picture of the ferry dated 1900-1910.
Again thanks for you replies.
Stuart


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## Chillytoes (Dec 9, 2006)

I may be about 4 years late here, but I have the same framed image on my wall. According to a label on the back, it was taken by one Melvin Vaniman, from a balloon, in 1904, the subject being Circular Quay, Sydney. The vessels at the old P&O Wharf are not identified, but the fast police launch ‘Argus’ is noted in the foreground. No other vessels are named.


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## JustWin (Sep 21, 2018)

Ormuz >


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## Stephen J. Card (Nov 5, 2006)

Another confirmation.... ORMUZ of 1887.

The middle image... flying a French ensign.

The ferry.... still searching.


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## Stephen J. Card (Nov 5, 2006)

The paddle ferry is the BUNYA BUNYA of 1885. Could carry 671 passengers, more than the 1974 ferry LADY CUTLER Class, lighter and makes the same speed.

Still searching the French vessel.


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## stuart277 (Jun 1, 2015)

Hi All
Thanks for your efforts.
Mike (the owner of the pictute) said the original picture was fold out booklet, published by John Sands.
Interesting that it was taken from a balloon. That blew our theory that it was taken from a chimney stack in that area.
Again, thanks for your efforts
Cheers
Stuart and Mike


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## Alan Rawlinson (Dec 11, 2008)

*turn of the century*

The pictures (ships) shout " turn of the century" to me, give or take a year or two.


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## JustWin (Sep 21, 2018)

The man who took the images. Melvin Vaniman first Engineer on the Hydrogen Airship ''America''. Aboard the SS Trent. >


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## JustWin (Sep 21, 2018)

stuart277 said:


> Hi all
> My friend has a large (undated) panorama picture of Sydney Harbour. We are trying to get an estimate on when it was taken.
> There are some large merchant ships in Sydney Cove, near where the Opera House stands today and another at the passenger terminal.
> We know nothing about ships, but the picture is before the Harbour Bridge was started and there are some three masted sailing ships in other parts of the harbour.
> ...


These images were taken during 1903.


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## stuart277 (Jun 1, 2015)

Hi All
I did a little research for Melvin Vanimon and found a Chester Melvin Vanimon and found a very similar picture but looking south, toward the city rather than east. It was dated 1904.
Panorama of Bennelong Point, Circular Quay and Dawes Point, 1904 by Melvin Vaniman
http://canterburyphotography.blogspot.com/2013/11/vaniman-chester-melvin.html

Cheers
Stuart


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## Stephen J. Card (Nov 5, 2006)

1904.

The vessel at left is one of the P&O 'M' Class... either MOLDAVIA, MANGOLIA, MARMARA or MACEDONIA (all were is service in 1904). MOOLTAN entered service in 1905.

The white vessel at left is very close to the white vessel in the earlier photo. Again, looks like a French ensign. Went through all NZ and Australia Passenger Liners (by Peter Plowman). Not shown in these books.

Stephen


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## JustWin (Sep 21, 2018)

Another image of the white ship >


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## Stephen J. Card (Nov 5, 2006)

Thanks. This is the YARRA.... shown on your photo. It is the same ship shown in the photo of the P&O M class vessel.

It is NOT the same white liner in the first photo. Similar, but not the same. Probably same company. Need to look back.

Stephen


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## JustWin (Sep 21, 2018)

Bunya Bunya and that mystery white ship >


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## JustWin (Sep 21, 2018)

JustWin said:


> Another image of the white ship >


The image of the YARRA is in the same berth as the French ship in the middle image #1 . So I do think that image is YARRA. Check out the surrounding buildings in both images.


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## Stephen J. Card (Nov 5, 2006)

The BUNYA BUNYA.... definitely it is her.. or he! The pilothouses and also the covers of the paddles are quite distinct and different from other ferries.

However, the photo above with the close-up of BUNYA BUNYA are with the same 'white hulled French liner' in your original photo. The 1904 photo by Vaniman is definite named as YARRA. But the YARRA is NOT the same in your original photo or in your second photo.

The YARRA had six SIMILAR sisterships. The company with these ships all had Australian names and were on the Australian run. Obviously they would be found in Sydney and would have seen with BUNYA BUNYA dozens of times.

Stephen


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## JustWin (Sep 21, 2018)

Here is Le Natal. Pity the image #1 is not clearer. Anyway I think I have done enough damage to my eyes searching. (Thumb)


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## Stephen J. Card (Nov 5, 2006)

Built for Messageries Maritimes in 1882; she was part of a class of seven near-sisters: Yarra, Melbourne, Caledonien, Natal, Oceanien, Salazie, and Sydney. 

Looking at the photo of the NATAL...I can see differences between her and your original photo. First. The position of the hawsepipe. Different position when compared.

Next difference, and may or may not make a differences.... the colour of the masts. NETAL had white painted masts. The other photos show dark colour masts. May or may not any difference. Until we can find photos of EACH of the seven near sisters... you are loosing your eyesight! Good luck.

Stephen


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## Stephen J. Card (Nov 5, 2006)

L'ENCYCLOPEDIEDES MESSAGERIES MARITIMES

Found their collection of all seven sisters and several different views. Take your pick because there are so different versions and over the years the ship's details changed. Impossible task.

Stephen


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## JustWin (Sep 21, 2018)

Stephen J. Card said:


> Built for Messageries Maritimes in 1882; she was part of a class of seven near-sisters: Yarra, Melbourne, Caledonien, Natal, Oceanien, Salazie, and Sydney.
> 
> Looking at the photo of the NATAL...I can see differences between her and your original photo. First. The position of the hawsepipe. Different position when compared.
> 
> ...


 I will be having my left eye cataract operation on the 12th of February. Then my right eye some weeks later. (Thumb)


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## Stephen J. Card (Nov 5, 2006)

Oh dear, I hope this research did not cause the cataracts!

Hope it all goes well for you.

Stephen


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## JustWin (Sep 21, 2018)

Stephen J. Card said:


> Oh dear, I hope this research did not cause the cataracts!
> 
> Hope it all goes well for you.
> 
> Stephen


No it didn't. First noticed the problem early 2017. Did not get referred until November 2018. They are very annoying and will be glad when they are done. (Thumb)


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## Stephen J. Card (Nov 5, 2006)

Whew!

You will be back in harness soon. Meanwhile, best luck from us at Ships Nostalgia.

Stephen


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## JustWin (Sep 21, 2018)

Stephen J. Card said:


> Whew!
> 
> You will be back in harness soon. Meanwhile, best luck from us at Ships Nostalgia.
> 
> Stephen


 Thank you. Now I will get back to looking through my big magnifying glass to see what I can find. (Thumb)


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## Stephen J. Card (Nov 5, 2006)

Here a few more... and NATAL with white and also black livery (1905)


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## JustWin (Sep 21, 2018)

Stephen J. Card said:


> Here a few more... and NATAL with white and also black livery (1905)


 Nice Pics. (Thumb) But non look the same as the one #1 . Could it be a different class ?.


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## Stephen J. Card (Nov 5, 2006)

Same class, but like I said before, the ship are not identical. Go to the MM website and you will find of dozens of photos of each ship and you will find there were changes to the ship over the years. Livery, lifeboat arrangements, steam pipes on the funnels etc. Even changed to the rigging. In some cases the 'channels' for the stays and shrouds are outside the plating and then changed to be onboard.


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## JustWin (Sep 21, 2018)

Stephen J. Card said:


> Same class, but like I said before, the ship are not identical. Go to the MM website and you will find of dozens of photos of each ship and you will find there were changes to the ship over the years. Livery, lifeboat arrangements, steam pipes on the funnels etc. Even changed to the rigging. In some cases the 'channels' for the stays and shrouds are outside the plating and then changed to be onboard.


 That says it all then. Don't think I will spend anymore time searching. I have come across some good images for my puzzles though. (Thumb)


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