# Loss of the Ian Crouch



## frank fish

In August 1958 I was on a ship in drydock at Kowloon Docks Hong Kong and in the next dock was a newly built schooner the Ian Crouch she was to my mind beautifull and if the opportunity to sail on her had been available I would have been there like a shot. Fortunately I didn't get the chance and instead sailed on the ship I had just joined the MV Ninella. We went to Australia and after a spell around the coast were heading back to Singapore when we received a radio message to all ships to keep a lookout for auxilliary schooner Ian Crouch overdue on passage Hong Kong to Port Adelaide. I seem to remember subsequent messages concerning a search by an RAF Shackleton out of Singapore which also disappeared somewhere in the South China Sea. What became of her I do not know and wonder if any members have any information, was her wreck ever found and what was the result of any inquiry? She must have been one of the last sailing vessels built purely for the carriage of dry cargo and it is such a shame she did not survive even her maiden voyage also does a photo of her exist


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## paisleymerchant

Found this

http://news.google.com/newspapers?n...qsUAAAAIBAJ&sjid=T7MDAAAAIBAJ&pg=4641,4271805

http://news.google.com/newspapers?n...d6oUAAAAIBAJ&sjid=g7IDAAAAIBAJ&pg=5581,859730


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## Richard Maskiell

IAN CROUCH was approx 500 tons, 160.0 x 30.9 x 10.7, built 1958 by Cheoy Lee Shipyard at Hong Kong for Reginald M Crouch for the South Australian coastal trade. Crouch operated several vessels over the years including Jillian Crouch and Milford Crouch, both of which may still be in existence as Lady Jillian and FD Tologi. A Marine Court of Enquiry in Hong Kong found that she was presumed lost between September 27 and 29, 1958 between 100 and 150 miles SE of Hong Kong on her delivery voyage with 11 crew and one passenger (the owners rep).


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## Alan Maggs

*ian Crouch photos*

Hi Frank
Somewhere in my archives I HAVE 2 PHOTOS OF Ian Crouch
Also have photos of Jillian Crouch and Claire crouch, the last two sailing tankers in the world. Both were laid up for sale in 1967.Alan maggs


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## Cisco

Quite a number of photos of Lady Jillian ( ex Jillian Crouch) in the gallery

one of mine here..http://www.shipsnostalgia.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=164915


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## OldBassStraiter

My Uncle was the skipper of the Ian Crouch when she left HK. His name was Norman Berry. At the time of her building there was a dispute about putting cranes on deck. The builders didn't want to put them on so the owners took her to another yard to have them fitted.
She left HK in ballast and as she was an auxilary ketch he had intended sailing her as much as possible. Norman was a qualified master in motor and sail.
Over the years I have come to the belief that they may have been caught aback and healed over causing the ballast to shift.
The Blyth Star that sank on the SW coast of Tassie rolled over and sank in minutes leaving no wreckage, she was a similar size to the Ian Crouch.
If anybody has a photo of her in HK I would greatly appreciate a copy.


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## SteveT

Would love to see the photos of Ian Crouch if still available?
Steve


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## vmr

Hi Frank, Your Story Of The Ian Crouch Brought Back Memories Of The Crouch Ketches In South Australian Waters, and Yes wondered Why In Modern Times Would They Build Vessels In sail, Used To see Them In Port adelaide, Cheers VMR.


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## RICHARD DAVIES

My father Mervyn Davies had ships built by Cheoy Lee in Hong Kong including the Wongala. She had sails because they allowed non union seaman to be employed to sail her and to save diesel fuel when under sail. Reg Crouch had the same motives. Lo To was the owner of Cheoyl Lee and he refused to install heavy and high cranes on the deck of the Ian Crouch for fear of making th eship top heavey and vulnerable to capsizing. So on near completion she was removed to the dock yard next door where the cranes were installed. She was insured for several times the cost of building.


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## pidgeon

*Search for the Ian Crouch takes deadly toll*

RAF Carrier Pilot Hilly Rostowsky is helicoptered onto Itu Aba and meets with armed Chinese who have recovered the body of one of the downed Shackleton's crew. That aircraft had been searching for the Ian Crouch. Here is the amazing story:
https://youtu.be/PQdeSY33z6g


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## KIBerry

Hi Frank, thank you for your kind words about the Ian Crouch. My Uncle was skipper of her when she disappeared.
When you saw her can you remember if she had had the deck cranes fitted? There was a dispute between the owners and the builders. The builders refused to fit them and she was taken to another yard to have them fitted, I not sure what the dispute was about.
My Uncle had arranged with somebody in HK to keep in radio contact each day but unfortunately after 2 day out there were no more calls.
My Uncle was a certified sailing master and it was his intention to have her under sail as much as possible.
I sailed with Captain Bob Houffe on the Aussie coast and he knew my Uncle and a couple of the other crew members and it was his opinion that she may have been "caught aback" and turned turtle. We do know that she was in ballast and there was some suggestion that it may have shifted. I don't know if you know the story of the Blyth Star, she rolled over and sank on the Tasmanian SW coast, apart from the life raft containing the crew there was never any wreckage found.
There was a suggestion that the Ian Crouch may have been taken by pirates but nothing was ever proven.
There was a ship on the Aussie coast that had the same hull as the Ian she was the Wongalla but she did not have cranes on deck.
I hope this helps, unfortunately I don't have a decent photo only a poor quality newspaper cutting.
Cheers.
sorry guys I didn't realize I had answerd to this thread earlier. but it's same same except the story about the cranes.


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## gregdermody

Any one got any info or pics of the Ian Crouch ? My Dads Brother was one of the crew that disappeared


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## vmr

Greg Just A Longshot, Try The PORT ADELAIDE Maritime Museum As Crouch Ketches Were Often In Port Adelaide Cheers VMR.


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## Alan Maggs

hi All
I sent two photos of vessel to Ian Berry at beginning of May 2018
One broadside shot of port side, the other 3/4 head shot of starboard side
Regards
Alan Maggs


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## Alan Maggs

re BLYTH STAR loss of vessel according to Marine Court of Enquiry due to transfer of contents of tanks at sea. One would have no reason to believe that any such event might have occurred in relation to IAN CROUCH
Regards
Alan Maggs


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## KIBerry

gregdermody said:


> Any one got any info or pics of the Ian Crouch ? My Dads Brother was one of the crew that disappeared


Greg I have a photo of the Ian Crouch taken just before she sailed from HK
I don't seem to manage to do the upload, can anybody help me plz.
Bugger me its appeared
If you can magnify the photo it will surprise you how many people you can see on deck
The guy that was kind enough to give me this photo gave me another that was obviously taken a day or so earlier as she was down by the **** and there weren't any sails bent on so obviously they were getting her ready to sail.
To me she was a beautiful looking vessel and I would have been proud to have sailed with my Uncle.


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## KIBerry

Alan Maggs said:


> re BLYTH STAR loss of vessel according to Marine Court of Enquiry due to transfer of contents of tanks at sea. One would have no reason to believe that any such event might have occurred in relation to IAN CROUCH
> Regards
> Alan Maggs


Alan, I sailed with a guy who was Chief Engineer on the Blyth Star, he was on the other swing at the time and he told me about the time she flopped over on them while sheltering in Sea Elephant Bay on KI. It was only quick action on their part that averted he falling over.


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## Moshulu

Alan Maggs said:


> Hi Frank
> Somewhere in my archives I HAVE 2 PHOTOS OF Ian Crouch
> Also have photos of Jillian Crouch and Claire crouch, the last two sailing tankers in the world. Both were laid up for sale in 1967.Alan maggs


Hi Alan, I sailed on both the Nelcebee and the Falie, which were auxiliary ketches that used working sail right up until 1982. Both vessels had cargo fuel tanks below for the carriage of bulk petrol, diesel and heating oil from Port Adelaide to Kangaroo Island, so they were still working when both of the Crouch ships had stopped carrying bulk liquid. They were owned by R Fricker and Co, who were direct competitors to Crouch in the same trades. Nelcebee carried 40,800 litres and Falie 54,000 litres, as well as dry bulk and general cargo at the same time. The Crouch ships were fitted for the acid trade to Port Pirie. The Claire was sold off in the late 60’s to Darwin and was lost in cyclone Tracy as the Booya, the Jillian became the Lady Jillian and her bulk tanks removed in the 70’s. She is laid up in Launceston, Tasmania. 

I am fascinated by the Ian Crouch and the fact that she was even built, a gaff rigged auxiliary schooner with a bowsprit, and she was the third schooner built by them in 10 years, the Milford Crouch being the other. She was lost the year before the Ian when she turned over in a gale off Cowell, with the loss of five men. It must have been a blow to lose so many ketch hands and skippers in the space of a year, with 12 being lost off the Ian, and I dont think Crouch and Co really recovered from that. The Milford Crouch was raised and became the Flinders Trader. She is off as a fishing mother ship somewhere now under a different name.

It would be interesting one day if they found her wreck, to see what actually happened to her. She was too distinctive to be taken by pirates and even if altered she would have stood out, as she was virtually unique. The photo of her in this thread shows her with sails bent, and down a bit in the water compared to an earlier photo of her. I suspect she had water ballast but with a capacity of 500 tons she must have had dry ballast or cargo aboard as well. She is similar to Cheoy Lees Wongala, but a lot better looking. Similar concept but the Wongala had a straight raked stem and an open cruiser stern. I had a mate that worked on her to New Zealand with explosives, and he said she was like a half tide rock when loaded. Anyway, cheers for now.


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## Basil

Wiki:
9 December 1958: Shackleton MR.1 VP254 of No. 205 Squadron RAF crashed into the South China Sea. All 10 on board killed.


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## Rod Clarke

Alan Maggs said:


> *ian Crouch photos*
> 
> Hi Frank
> Somewhere in my archives I HAVE 2 PHOTOS OF Ian Crouch
> Also have photos of Jillian Crouch and Claire crouch, the last two sailing tankers in the world. Both were laid up for sale in 1967.Alan maggs


Hi Alan,
I know this is a bit late to reply but I am researching the Crouch schooners for a possible DVD story & came across your comments. I need photos of any of them to complete this project. I have that port side view of Ian at anchor in HK. Would it be possible to get some from you please? I have completed two stories based on Annie Watt,One & All, Nelcebee & Falie using movie film. In the case of the Crouch boats it will have to be mainly stills as there is very little movie film of them. I have two photos of Claire loading in Port Pirie but they are shockers. Also have a few of her in her earlier life as Argosy Lemal.
Regards,
Rod Clarke


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## Alan Maggs

Rod Clarke said:


> Hi Alan,
> I know this is a bit late to reply but I am researching the Crouch schooners for a possible DVD story & came across your comments. I need photos of any of them to complete this project. I have that port side view of Ian at anchor in HK. Would it be possible to get some from you please? I have completed two stories based on Annie Watt,One & All, Nelcebee & Falie using movie film. In the case of the Crouch boats it will have to be mainly stills as there is very little movie film of them. I have two photos of Claire loading in Port Pirie but they are shockers. Also have a few of her in her earlier life as Argosy Lemal.
> Regards,
> Rod Clarke


Hi Rod I am currently in hospital andwont be home till
september. I havecolourshots of both Claire and Jillian taken in Port Adelaide in1967 when they were undergoing survey
These include shots taken from cross trees.Go to Melbourne Herald Archives there are several shots of Argosy Lemal
Reggards
Alan


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## Alan Maggs

Alan Maggs said:


> Hi Rod I am currently in hospital andwont be home till
> september. I havecolourshots of both Claire and Jillian taken in Port Adelaide in1967 when they were undergoing survey
> These include shots taken from cross trees.Go to Melbourne Herald Archives there are several shots of Argosy Lemal
> Reggards
> Alan


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## Rod Clarke

Alan Maggs said:


> Hi Rod I am currently in hospital andwont be home till
> september. I havecolourshots of both Claire and Jillian taken in Port Adelaide in1967 when they were undergoing survey
> These include shots taken from cross trees.Go to Melbourne Herald Archives there are several shots of Argosy Lemal
> Reggards
> Alan


Hi Alan.Thanks for your quick response & sorry to hear about your hospitalisation. I will follow the lead to the Herald archives.
This project will take some time so can I get in touch again later in the year for a look at those photos? Do you still have that other Ian Crouch shot you mentioned?
Bet regards,
Rod


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## Joe S.

Basil said:


> Wiki:
> 9 December 1958: Shackleton MR.1 VP254 of No. 205 Squadron RAF crashed into the South China Sea. All 10 on board killed.


As a 6 yr old child back in 1958, in a northern Ireland village - location of a wartime RAF Coastal Command airfield that much later was named the Shackleton Base when the British Army took it over in the 1970s - I remember once meeting a very young RAF air signaller called Peter Marshall on National Service from England. Shackletons regularly flew North Atlantic Cold War reconnaissance missions in those days, and were a familiar sight flying low over our small coastal village. Peter had just married Hester, a young woman raised in the village. Both must have been in their later teens at most. Soon afterwards Peter, of whom I have a fuzzy childhood memory as a slim, fair-haired, polite young man in His grey-blue RAF uniform, was posted overseas. Just before Christmas 1958, the village was shaken by the news that Hester’s husband Peter was among the air crew lost when the Shackleton aircraft he was on board, had utterly disappeared on a mission over the South China Sea. At the time nothing more was revealed to the wife’s family in N. Ireland - Cold War-era secrecy then being the norm - and my father, their local church minister, ran into a “cone of silence” when he tried to find out more from the RAF authorities on behalf of Peter’s widow, Hester, who soon afterwards gave birth to their only child, a daughter she named Lorna. Hester is long gone, but her daughter still lives in the local area, long married and now in her sixties. Over the decades, now long resident in Pacific Canada, I have often thought of Peter, Hester and Lorna, and wondered what really happened to him. In recent days I’ve stumbled on the online mentions of the December 1958 Shackleton tragic loss, with all her 10 young crew, and the concurrent unsuccessful search off N. Borneo for the missing auxiliary cargo schooner, the Ian Crouch. This website chain has been a revelation too. I gather from one of the comments that a body of a crew member was recovered from the ocean. Online I have just found mention of a memorial to that lost Shackleton crew, including Peter, in a small English church. I’m feeling saddened but appreciative of finding out answers to at least some of the questions that I’ve had in my mind for these past sixty-plus years. Per Ardua Ad Astra.


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## Rod Clarke

Joe S. said:


> As a 6 yr old child back in 1958, in a northern Ireland village - location of a wartime RAF Coastal Command airfield that much later was named the Shackleton Base when the British Army took it over in the 1970s - I remember once meeting a very young RAF air signaller called Peter Marshall on National Service from England. Shackletons regularly flew North Atlantic Cold War reconnaissance missions in those days, and were a familiar sight flying low over our small coastal village. Peter had just married Hester, a young woman raised in the village. Both must have been in their later teens at most. Soon afterwards Peter, of whom I have a fuzzy childhood memory as a slim, fair-haired, polite young man in His grey-blue RAF uniform, was posted overseas. Just before Christmas 1958, the village was shaken by the news that Hester’s husband Peter was among the air crew lost when the Shackleton aircraft he was on board, had utterly disappeared on a mission over the South China Sea. At the time nothing more was revealed to the wife’s family in N. Ireland - Cold War-era secrecy then being the norm - and my father, their local church minister, ran into a “cone of silence” when he tried to find out more from the RAF authorities on behalf of Peter’s widow, Hester, who soon afterwards gave birth to their only child, a daughter she named Lorna. Hester is long gone, but her daughter still lives in the local area, long married and now in her sixties. Over the decades, now long resident in Pacific Canada, I have often thought of Peter, Hester and Lorna, and wondered what really happened to him. In recent days I’ve stumbled on the online mentions of the December 1958 Shackleton tragic loss, with all her 10 young crew, and the concurrent unsuccessful search off N. Borneo for the missing auxiliary cargo schooner, the Ian Crouch. This website chain has been a revelation too. I gather from one of the comments that a body of a crew member was recovered from the ocean. Online I have just found mention of a memorial to that lost Shackleton crew, including Peter, in a small English church. I’m feeling saddened but appreciative of finding out answers to at least some of the questions that I’ve had in my mind for these past sixty-plus years. Per Ardua Ad Astra.


Interesting. Thanks for the comment. Long forgotten actions that are still puzzling those left to ponder on another of the sea's great mysteries. The truth may be locked away in secret London 
files & the minds of the Chinese "fishermen" who saw the plane go down.


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## Joe S.

Rod Clarke said:


> Interesting. Thanks for the comment. Long forgotten actions that are still puzzling those left to ponder on another of the sea's great mysteries. The truth may be locked away in secret London
> files & the minds of the Chinese "fishermen" who saw the plane go down.


Hi Rod,
Thanks for your comments. The atoll where the only body from the lost aircrew that was recovered was first buried by a local fisherman. In fact he did give an account later of being the sole witness from his boat to Shackleton VP254 from 205 Sqdrn (Singapore) crash headling into the ocean near the atoll, and memorizing the plane’s 205 number on the fuselage before it sank below the waves. No sign of any human activity so the 10-strong crew (plus one civilian, a local Labuan-based senior police officer) may well all have been killed on impact. The Anglican parish church of St. Eval, Cornwall, produced a fascinating booklet of some six or seven pages in 2008 about the lost Shackleton to commemorate the 50th anniversary, when a service was held there which some family members (including Flt. Sgt. Peter Marshall from Nottingham’s sister) attended. Mention is made of how little was done by the Air Force authorities at the time (1958) to communicate with bereaved family members or to connect them with each other. Virtually none had never met up until the 2008 service in the church Cornwall, closely acvinexted with the former RAF Coastal Command airbase there (long since closed, just like the CC sister base Ballykelly, NI). I’ll post the link for downloading that fascinating pamphlet which contains S various contemporary Straits Times clippings about the tragic incident. Truth being often stranger than fiction. Peter’s daughter Lorna is now on her early sixties, I gather, still residing near her village birthplace in Co Derry, NI. The owner of a privately-run Royal Air Force museum association in the village tells me she is a paid-up member and has donated copies of some old photos of her dad (whom of course she never met) with Shackletons that he flew in. I’m hoping to visit the museum next year if travel from Canada to UK is feasible (I’m now among the double-vaccinated of course) and see those. Li Link for downloadable pamphlet about VP254 is second one below. Cheers.









Taiping Island - Wikipedia







en.m.wikipedia.org





Story of the Cross

RAF Connections


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## Rod Clarke

Joe S. said:


> Hi Rod,
> Thanks for your comments. The atoll where the only body from the lost aircrew that was recovered was first buried by a local fisherman. In fact he did give an account later of being the sole witness from his boat to Shackleton VP254 from 205 Sqdrn (Singapore) crash headling into the ocean near the atoll, and memorizing the plane’s 205 number on the fuselage before it sank below the waves. No sign of any human activity so the 10-strong crew (plus one civilian, a local Labuan-based senior police officer) may well all have been killed on impact. The Anglican parish church of St. Eval, Cornwall, produced a fascinating booklet of some six or seven pages in 2008 about the lost Shackleton to commemorate the 50th anniversary, when a service was held there which some family members (including Flt. Sgt. Peter Marshall from Nottingham’s sister) attended. Mention is made of how little was done by the Air Force authorities at the time (1958) to communicate with bereaved family members or to connect them with each other. Virtually none had never met up until the 2008 service in the church Cornwall, closely acvinexted with the former RAF Coastal Command airbase there (long since closed, just like the CC sister base Ballykelly, NI). I’ll post the link for downloading that fascinating pamphlet which contains S various contemporary Straits Times clippings about the tragic incident. Truth being often stranger than fiction. Peter’s daughter Lorna is now on her early sixties, I gather, still residing near her village birthplace in Co Derry, NI. The owner of a privately-run Royal Air Force museum association in the village tells me she is a paid-up member and has donated copies of some old photos of her dad (whom of course she never met) with Shackletons that he flew in. I’m hoping to visit the museum next year if travel from Canada to UK is feasible (I’m now among the double-vaccinated of course) and see those. Li Link for downloadable pamphlet about VP254 is second one below. Cheers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Taiping Island - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.m.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Story of the Cross
> 
> RAF Connections


Thanks Joe for these fascinating clips. Just reading the Wikipedia article on the ownership of Itu Aba is bewildering to say the least. None of those newspaper cuttings (story of the cross) seems to mention the helicopter men who were landed on the island from an aircraft carrier, to investigate. I watched a great talk by one of the retired crew landed there trying to explain what they found & saw. None of this really gets to explaining the cause of the Shackleton crash, where it is, or the mystery of Ian crouch. Secrets of the seas! Lovely that those families were able to get together to commemorate the loss of their families....which usually requires a great effort by families against the sluggish authorities. I am talking to decendents of the captains of the Crouch schooners who offer me photos & log book pages of their life in these little ships. History must not be thrown into the bin of passing years.
I hope you do get to visit the museum but I worry about the state of the world & future international travel. My wife & I are fully vaccinated too & love our travel but flights coming in to Australia are causing mayhem with infected air crew & passengers.The new variant is going wild with no one able to control it. C'est la Vie......
Cheers, Rod


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## Joe S.

Rod Clarke said:


> Thanks Joe for these fascinating clips. Just reading the Wikipedia article on the ownership of Itu Aba is bewildering to say the least. None of those newspaper cuttings (story of the cross) seems to mention the helicopter men who were landed on the island from an aircraft carrier, to investigate. I watched a great talk by one of the retired crew landed there trying to explain what they found & saw. None of this really gets to explaining the cause of the Shackleton crash, where it is, or the mystery of Ian crouch. Secrets of the seas! Lovely that those families were able to get together to commemorate the loss of their families....which usually requires a great effort by families against the sluggish authorities. I am talking to decendents of the captains of the Crouch schooners who offer me photos & log book pages of their life in these little ships. History must not be thrown into the bin of passing years.
> I hope you do get to visit the museum but I worry about the state of the world & future international travel. My wife & I are fully vaccinated too & love our travel but flights coming in to Australia are causing mayhem with infected air crew & passengers.The new variant is going wild with no one able to control it. C'est la Vie......
> Cheers, Rod


I do wonder about that helicopter landing omission from the church leaflet too, Rod - perhaps they just didn’t know about it. I think their clippings came from a family member of of one of the lost Shackleton crew who researched the local news reports out there. Maybe the Kew PRO in London which I gather has all the official RAF records now from that era, has done answers. Don’t know when I’ll be back there - as you say, the new Covid variants and the low rate of vax among the younger generation (who remember nothing about the terrible real fear of polio and smallpox) give one pause over long distance travelling. If I find out any more, I’ll post you another message. Haven’t viewed that Spratlys YouTube video yet, eating for a quiet moment to do that. Cheers.


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## Rod Clarke

Rod Clarke said:


> Hi Alan,
> I know this is a bit late to reply but I am researching the Crouch schooners for a possible DVD story & came across your comments. I need photos of any of them to complete this project. I have that port side view of Ian at anchor in HK. Would it be possible to get some from you please? I have completed two stories based on Annie Watt,One & All, Nelcebee & Falie using movie film. In the case of the Crouch boats it will have to be mainly stills as there is very little movie film of them. I have two photos of Claire loading in Port Pirie but they are shockers. Also have a few of her in her earlier life as Argosy Lemal.
> Regards,
> Rod Clarke


Hi Alan,
I trust your hospital stint was successful & that you are home & recovered. Could I follow up on my search for Crouch schooner photos which you mentioned. Ian,Claire & Jillian.
Since getting in touch with you I have found rare 16mm film relating to Claire,Jillian & Milford. Also video lent to me by Jillian's last captain.
I will look forward to hearing from you. Best wishes for the new year.
Regards,
Rod Clarke


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## Tom Maggs

Rod Clarke said:


> Hi Alan,
> I trust your hospital stint was successful & that you are home & recovered. Could I follow up on my search for Crouch schooner photos which you mentioned. Ian,Claire & Jillian.
> Since getting in touch with you I have found rare 16mm film relating to Claire,Jillian & Milford. Also video lent to me by Jillian's last captain.
> I will look forward to hearing from you. Best wishes for the new year.
> Regards,
> Rod Clarke


Hi Rod, and all,

Alan passed away early February just shy of his 79th birthday.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

Regards,
Tom Maggs, son of Alan


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