# Silly Cox & co Shiprepairers Falmouth



## Roger Griffiths (Feb 10, 2006)

I am trying to locate the company records of Silley Cox & co. shiprepairers 
of Falmouth, Cornwall for the years 1939-1945.
According to the book "The Shipbuilding Industry" by L A Richie they are 
deposited at the successors to Silley Cox, A & P Appledore (Falmouth) ltd. I have contacted them and they referred me to the NMM Greenwich. The NMM do not hold these do***ents. I have also tried the NMM. Falmouth, the Cornish Records office Truro, Falmouth library and the National Archive in Kew, all with negative results.
Has anyone come across these records during the course of their research. Any help would be most appreciated.

regards
Roger.


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## treeve (Nov 15, 2005)

Cornwall records Office have
Falmouth Docks Company.
Catalogue Ref. X 972
Falmouth Docks Company, Falmouth, Cornwall
Interknit Investments (Falmouth) Limited
Trustees of the Silley Cox Workmens Pension Fund

National Archives have
HO 192/1353 Silley Cox and Co Ltd: 5, 6, 7, 8, 10, 21 July 1940 and 19 Feb, 8 Apr, 25 Nov 1941 1941-1943 
LAB 3/292 Award No. 82 Amalgamated Engineering Union v Silley Cox and Co Ltd: overtime rates. 1941 
LAB 3/346 Award No. 264 Amalgamated Engineering Union v Silley, Cox and Company Ltd: application of Award No. 82. 1942 
RAIL 1190/146 Silley, Cox & Co Ltd: overhaul to and installation of "Grinnell" automatic sprinkler and fire alarm system in SS St Patrick 1955 Dec 

All the best, Raymond


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## treeve (Nov 15, 2005)

Having said that, have you explored the google results (66 useful ones)?


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## Roger Griffiths (Feb 10, 2006)

Hello Raymond,
Thanks for the input but none of your links came to anything.
I am looking for details of the damaged to the Tanker TEAKWOOD in Sept.1939. I know she was repaired at Falmouth by Silley Cox.

regards
Roger


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## BillH (Oct 10, 2007)

Roger Griffiths said:


> Hello Raymond,
> Thanks for the input but none of your links came to anything.
> I am looking for details of the damaged to the Tanker TEAKWOOD in Sept.1939. I know she was repaired at Falmouth by Silley Cox.
> 
> ...


21:00 hrs 21st Sept 1939 whilst in convoy OA.7, was damaged by German submarine U 35 under command of Lott with a torpedo at poisition 49.39N 06.39W.

Base details are

TEAKWOOD
O.N. 149878. 6,014g. 3,708n. 415.1 x 54.8 x 31.4 feet.
T.3-cyl. (27", 45" & 75" x 48") engine made by Wallsend Slipway Company Ltd, Newcastle. 515 NHP.
8.1927: Completed by Armstrong, Whitworth & Company Ltd, Newcastle.

In 1939 her owners were given as Molasses & General Transport Company Ltd, (John I. Jacobs & Company Ltd, managers), London.


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## Roger Griffiths (Feb 10, 2006)

Thanks for the input Bill.
My apologies for the typo *Damaged* which should have read *Damage* which maybe confused you.
Over the years, I have done some extensive research on this U-Boat attack and I am familiar with the details you quote.
The only thing which I'm missing is a report from the ship repair yard as to the extent of the damage and the cost of repair. Photographs of the damage would be the iceing on the cake. I live in hope.

regards

Roger


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## BillH (Oct 10, 2007)

Roger,

Don't know where you live but there is a thin chance Lloyd' Register in London could help.

They hold weekly casualty returns going back some years.

Either write and give as much details as possible to limit and refine their search time or phone and ask if they have the info.

A very knowlegable and helpful team of archivists.


Mrs B. Jones
Information Department
Lloyd's Register Of Shipping
71, Fenchurch Street
London
EC3

0207 423 2475 (direct Line to dept)

Good luck.

Bill


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## Bill Forster (Dec 11, 2007)

I too would like to trace the wartime record of ships repaired by Siley Cox & Co at Falmouth in the hope of identifying an Arctic convoy escort my father joined from HMS Forte at Falmouth in late 1943 to early 1944.

Have you tried the Falmouth Branch of he National Maritime Museum in Falmouth? I have asked whether they know if the records still exist & await a reply.

As regards Lloyds Casualty Report I have found that details given of wartime casualties are scant whilst whilst minor damage in peacetime is recorded in detail. I have used the Guildhall Library in London to check these records.

Bill


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## Roger Griffiths (Feb 10, 2006)

Thank you both for your input,
I have previously tried all the links you suggest to no avail. It seems the Silley Cox archives have been lost or destroyed.
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/nra/searches/subjectView.asp?ID=B25323
Attached an Admiralty report concerning the damage to TEAKWOOD


regards
Roger


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## benjidog (Oct 27, 2005)

Whilst researching Adula I discovered that she was converted to a Merchant Aircraft Carrier (MAC) by this company in Feb 1944.


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## tiggy1greengate2 (Sep 4, 2013)

*Silley Cox Falmouth Company Records*

Hello Roger Griffiths,

I may be a few years' late with my reply, but if you are still searching for the Company Records of Silley Cox of Falmouth, then I may have some 'snippets' of information that may be of use to you.
Silley Cox of Falmouth were a (100%?) subsidiary company of the old R & H Green and Silley Weir Ltd whose registered office was at 18 London Street in City of London (in an office block off Fenchurch Street). Accounts of this Company and its Subsidiaries were, however stored / maintained by the Bookkeeping Department in Greengate Street, Plaistow, London, E13 and later moved to offices at the Royal Albert Dock, London, E16. Sadly, this fine old Ship Repairing and Engineering Company ceased trading, I believe, in about 1973 (I left in 1971). The office building has now been demolished and actually stood where the new City Airport runway ends!
One of the senior bookkeepers based at Plaistow/ RAD, used to visit Silley Cox of Falmouth to carry out an annual Audit.
For some years' Green & Silley was virtually a subsidiary of the P & O Company and I suspect you may find some links with them. I do know that a lot of G & SW Company Records can be found at the Greenwich Maritime Museums.
Hope this may be of some use to you.
Regards


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## Roger Griffiths (Feb 10, 2006)

Apoligies, I have only just read your post. I will follow up the P&O connection and try NMM again.
Thanks for posting.
regards
Roger


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## tiggy1greengate2 (Sep 4, 2013)

*Silley Cox, Falmouth*

Hello Roger,

Also forgot to mention...1898-1979 Records including corporate accounting records and of subsidiaries, including those of Silley Cox 
(1890 - 1960) are archived at the National Register, referencing the NMM, Caird Library, Manuscripts section.
Some items also found in The Green Blackwall Collection.
Good luck.


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## Bill Forster (Dec 11, 2007)

The records for ships entering the four dry docks at Silley Cox & Co for repair do still exist. I was in Falmouth for a week in late September 2019 and made some discoveries which will interest you. For details see this page: http://www.holywellhousepublishing.co.uk/Falmouth.html


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## Roger Griffiths (Feb 10, 2006)

Thanks for the information Bill.
I cannot believe my original post was over 11 years ago!
I have e-mailed Royal Cornwall Polytechnic Society and await an answer.

Regards
Roger


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## Kenny Gee (May 18, 2020)

*Silley Cox & Co*

Hello Roger Griffiths,

Like you I'm interested in information about a ship worked on by Silliey Cox & Co - so will be tracking any updates you may post with interest.

I'm trying to find out more about the arrival of HMS Eskimo in Falmouth for a refit on 9/5/42 and her first lieutenant Edward Russell RNVR who died the same day and is buried at Falmouth cemetry with a gravestone that reads "IN LOVING MEMORY OF OUR DARLING SON. HE LAID DOWN HIS LIFE TO SAVE A SHIPMATE."

This may not be the right place to find out more - but, in the absence any access to WW2 service records yet, I'm hoping it may shed more light on Lt. Russell's death.


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## Hugh MacLean (Nov 18, 2005)

Hello Kenny and welcome,
The moderators can move it should they wish to do so.

There are some details here that may help you:

https://www.dnw.co.uk/auction-archive/past-catalogues/lot.php?auction_id=448&lot_uid=284304


Must be more to this story as there were another four ratings from HMS ESKIMO lost overboard that day

HARNDEN, Cecil E, Able Seaman, C/JX 125077, MPK

HODGES, Henry G, Stoker Petty Officer, C/KX 75053, MPK

MOREL, Bernard H, Able Seaman, C/JX 190242, MPK

RUSSELL, Edward P S, Lieutenant, RNVR, killed

WILLIAMS, Cyril, Able Seaman, C/JX 188130, MPK 

Regards
Hugh


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## Roger Griffiths (Feb 10, 2006)

Hello and welcome,
No further forward I am afraid. I contacted The Royal Cornwall Poly. They had nothing but refered me to Bartlett Maritime Research Centre and Library at the National Maritime Museum Cornwall.

That aside. Have you seen this from The British National Archive.

Coupled with the info offered by Hugh. I think the answers you are looking for will be here.
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C12760012
Did he die trying to rescue Commodore J Elliott?

Kew is closed at the moment. I would advise a personal visit when they reopen.

regards
Roger


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## Kenny Gee (May 18, 2020)

*Lt. Edward Russell RNVR*

Thank you Hugh & Roger for the information.

It has answered almost all my questions - but has opened another one... why were so many men lost overboard that day?

Also, the 4 names that Hugh supplied didn't include the name that Roger supplied, Commodore J Elliott - who would seem to be the man Lt. Russell was trying to save.

From where did you get these 4 names Hugh? (I think I still have more research to do!)

By the way, I started my original search after reading an obituary in The Times earlier this year for Lieutenant-Commander John Manners, DSC which contained the following sentence: "In 1942 Manners transferred to the destroyer HMS Eskimo, in urgent need of a first lieutenant after the previous in***bent was swept overboard and drowned."

I felt this anonymous first lieutenant deserved more than this brief mention so started my search. Fortunately, I was able to find his name and date of death (9th May 1942) a few days before 9th May this year, so was able to place a Remembrance Cross for him at our local memorial on that day.


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## Hugh MacLean (Nov 18, 2005)

Hi Kenny,
I got the names from the Deaths at Sea Register but they are also listed on the NavalHistory site - scroll down to 9th May 1942

https://www.naval-history.net/xDKCas1942-05MAY.htm

I cannot find anything on Commodore J. Elliott at the moment that ties him in to HMS ESKIMO and the 9th May 1942 - no death, no commemoration unless of course he was saved. Will have a check later on some of my other sources, but no doubt that file at Kew that Roger has pointed you to will have all you need.

Regards
Hugh


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## Kenny Gee (May 18, 2020)

Thanks Hugh.


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## Roger Griffiths (Feb 10, 2006)

Hello Kenny,
You seem a genuine bloke. If it's a problem for you to visit Kew, just let me know via personal message and I will atempt to take a look and copy ADM358/695. Next time I am there. Whenever that may be.

Further "mooching" suggests that-------Captain (Acting Commodore, 2nd Class) Jeffery Elliott, RNR: missing presumed dead was unconected with the incident on board HMS ESKIMO on 9/May/1942.

It would seem that he was "Missing presumed dead" sometime in 1943 and is commemorated on the Liverpool Naval Memorial

https://www.cwgc.org/find/find-war-...liott&cemetery=Liverpool+Naval+Memorial&war=2

See also

https://www.unithistories.com/officers/RNR_officersE.html

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C13162829

https://www.warsailors.com/convoys/ons3.html

https://uboat.net/allies/merchants/crews/person/26471.html

regards
Roger


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## Kenny Gee (May 18, 2020)

Hello Roger,

Thanks for clearing up the confusion surrounding Commodore Jeffrey Elliott - and for your kind offer to rummage thru the Kew records for me.

I feel I've achieved what I originally set out to do - identify, honour and remember the anonymous first lieutenant mentioned in that Times obituary. In doing so, I have been privileged to discover his name was Lt. Edward Russell and that he wasn't "swept overboard", but risked and gave his life for a shipmate in trouble - and was posthumously awarded the Albert Medal for his bravery.

In doing so, I feel I have brought his story back to life amongst my circle of WW2 buffs - including, now, yourself and Hugh. I have also sent my findings to Nigel Farndale in the Obituaries section of The Times - who replied: "Thank you for this, I thought I might use this as a peg for a column at some point..." It would be nice if he did.

So, I may be at the end of my search... but I suspect I'll probably try to find out more about what happened to HMS Eskimo "in heavy weather... off the coast at Falmouth, Cornwall, on 9 May 1942" to cause the death of 5 seamen.


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## Hugh MacLean (Nov 18, 2005)

Hi Kenny, Roger,
I am pretty sure that file ADM 358/695 will cover both of the indivduals concerned but for seperate events - one for 1942 and the other 1943. I think the heading of the file is misleading and probably refers to Acting Commodore Jeffrey Elliott who was lost on ASHANTIAN in 1943. The other file that Roger linked to ADM 358/1537 will overlap with the first file but will be concerned directly with the missing presumed killed Commodore Elliott on ASHANTIAN. 

The story is certainly worth investigating further not least because there appears to be five who have lost their lives and only one award. The citation for Lt Russell mentions only one man who went overboard and Lt Russell attempted to save him and one other who tried in vain to save Lt Russell. 

Regards
Hugh


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## Roger Griffiths (Feb 10, 2006)

Hello Hugh,
Yes. I agree with your sentiments, the incident certainly needs further investigation.
As already stated, I will take a look at both pieces when TNA eventually reopens.

regards
Roger


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## Kenny Gee (May 18, 2020)

Hello Hugh & Roger,

I see you've both been bitten by the same "inquisitive bug" as me! 

As I'm running out of ideas of how/where to search (pending Roger's visit to TNA), I'll see if any of the WW2 buffs I know have any thoughts.

Until then, many thanks for your interest and support in this.

Regards, 

Kenny


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## Laurie Ridyard (Apr 16, 2014)

tiggy1greengate2 said:


> Hello Roger Griffiths,
> 
> I may be a few years' late with my reply, but if you are still searching for the Company Records of Silley Cox of Falmouth, then I may have some 'snippets' of information that may be of use to you.
> Silley Cox of Falmouth were a (100%?) subsidiary company of the old R & H Green and Silley Weir Ltd whose registered office was at 18 London Street in City of London (in an office block off Fenchurch Street). Accounts of this Company and its Subsidiaries were, however stored / maintained by the Bookkeeping Department in Greengate Street, Plaistow, London, E13 and later moved to offices at the Royal Albert Dock, London, E16. Sadly, this fine old Ship Repairing and Engineering Company ceased trading, I believe, in about 1973 (I left in 1971). The office building has now been demolished and actually stood where the new City Airport runway ends!
> ...


I understand Green and Silley Weir (Falmouth Dry Docks and Cardiff Dry Docks ) were owned by Hains , which is how they became part of P & O in 1917.

ATB

Laurie.


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