# R/O to Master



## Bill.B (Oct 19, 2013)

Was on the new maxi, for the time being, container ship Aisopos yesterday in Norfolk upgrading the Ecdis software. On getting the old man to sign off on my paperwork he asked if I had been an RO. When I replied yes he said he had graduated from Manchester as a sparkie in 85. In 95 he went to his native Indian maritime school and got his 2nd mates. He has had 19 trips as old man. Quite an achievements. I always knew we were under rated. Maybe the new proposed future fully automated ships only need one sparkie as crew?


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## Stephen J. Card (Nov 5, 2006)

At anchorage Eleusis Bay.... 3 months! 1975. Another tanker was there also the Salen vessel SEVEN STARS. Went over to exchange Walport films... and have a beer or several.

The Swedish Master and wife were on board. He had started as R/O back in the early 60s. He had an eye on the daughter of the master on board and the OM told him, "No damn R/O is going to marry daughter!" So.. the R/O went back to school, got his tickets and the girlfriend... and of course became master on the SEVEN STARS.

The SEVEN STARS was nothing special but there were several wives and children on board. Excellent atmosphere and looked like a real 'home'. Nice and friendly... and the beers were good too!


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## Barrie Youde (May 29, 2006)

#3

What a wonderful story!

Truth will out.


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## Varley (Oct 1, 2006)

If you move to the Bridge forum you'll find I have set up a subgroup for them - "Failed Sparkies".

The engineroom has one as well for those that didn't find leckying dirty enough for them and swapped to plumbing instead "Failed Leckies".


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## trotterdotpom (Apr 29, 2005)

I knew a former RO who became an Old Man. He was helped along by seatime gained as an AB on Norwegian ships.

John T


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## Aberdonian (Apr 7, 2011)

R651400 said:


> I remember vaguely at least two who chose the RO path after failing what must have been one helluva eye-sight test in the 1950's to get into Leith Nautical's cadet training ship Dolphin..


My brother-in-law attended Aberdeen Wireless College and became a Radio Officer around '64 after failing his eyesight test.

Keith


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## Stephen J. Card (Nov 5, 2006)

Captain Olaf Paulson Denholm Line Steamers 1910 to 1940


Part of the story... from Denholm News Xmas 1976


Whilst serving as an Assistant Steward he had, one afternoon taken to the Second Officer's tea to the bridge and on passing through the chartroom paused to gaze at the chart, The Second Officer appeared at the doorway and brusquely ordered him out, adding words that chartwork was not the business of a catering staff member. Stung by this, Paulson was determined to make chartwork his business and on return to Leith he changed departments, shipping out as a deck Boy.

In due course he passed his examinations and in fairly late in life he joined the Denholm Line as Chief Officer serving on our small ships of the 'Myrtlepark', 'Briarpark' class. He was eventually promoted to Master.



Another gem from this story......


There was little change of personnel in ships in those days as there was no organised holidays and Masters became identified with their ships. Most were horrified at the thought of Paulson even taken command of their vessel as he did not believe in the industry required to maintain varnished teak bridges. White zinc paint, yellow ochre and purple brown were his stock in trade and he was known to state that is he ever gained command of the best ship in the fleet, the 'Holmpark', with an all teak bridge, he would paint it all white - which he eventually did. Captain Rickard who followed him, personally spent two Far East voyages on a stage cleaning it all off again.


This was written by Captain J. M. Henderson, Director, Denholm Ship Management.


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## Troppo (Feb 18, 2010)

I know of an ex R/O on the Aussie coast who was mate when I last heard - he would be OM by now.

I remember when we were offered the option of either a golden handshake or retraining as 3rd mates, an R/O friend of mine took the gold, and then went and got his sea time overseas....much to the chagrin of Aussie shipping companies..


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## trotterdotpom (Apr 29, 2005)

Troppo said:


> I know of an ex R/O on the Aussie coast who was mate when I last heard - he would be OM by now.
> 
> I remember when we were offered the option of either a golden handshake or retraining as 3rd mates, an R/O friend of mine took the gold, and then went and got his sea time overseas....much to the chagrin of Aussie shipping companies..


Could be the same one I know - he was Mate long before we were made redundant.

The way things were going with Australian shipping when we were dispensed with, although I would have happily stayed at sea, I thought re-training as a 3rd Mate would have been re-training for the dole queue. I only knew of one RO who accepted the re-training. He was on the Stolt tanker and I think he was quite well in, so I hope it worked out for him.

John T

PS I did mention to an SUA rep that I was thinking of taking the money and then coming back as a steward - he ran away from me.


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## Troppo (Feb 18, 2010)

In retrospect, I wouldn't have minded retraining as a Syd harbour ferry driver, or a tug driver...


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## trotterdotpom (Apr 29, 2005)

Troppo said:


> In retrospect, I wouldn't have minded retraining as a Syd harbour ferry driver, or a tug driver...


Harbour Ferries .... a dream job. Tug driver ... big MSG stumbling block beginning with F and R.

John T

PS I don't mean monosodium glutimate.


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## expats (Mar 9, 2013)

R651400 said:


> I remember vaguely at least two who chose the RO path after failing what must have been one helluva eye-sight test in the 1950's to get into Leith Nautical's cadet training ship Dolphin..


I just passed the eyesight test at Southampton but the examiner told me that my eyesight would almost certainly deteriorate prior to sea time...

I went as an R/O and never,ever regretted it....


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## Troppo (Feb 18, 2010)

trotterdotpom said:


> Harbour Ferries .... a dream job. Tug driver ... big MSG stumbling block beginning with F and R.
> 
> John T
> 
> PS I don't mean monosodium glutimate.


Ha! That *****...


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## Stephen J. Card (Nov 5, 2006)

Went up to see the eye test at Glasgow. Another lad went in with the examiner at the same time. After I was told everything OK.... he told the other lad was borderline and to come and have another test for another week. Wished him well and away we went. Three years I was joining a ship as 3rd Mate... and the lad that I seen before at Glasgow joining the ship as well... as Eng. Cadet. Last time I saw him he was 2/E but his wished he been able to stay on deck.

Funny old things happen.


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## cajef (Feb 8, 2012)

As a youngster in my early teens I always wanted to go to sea as a deck officer, one of my best friends father was a Captain and he used to take us on board his ship when it was in port, unfortunately as I thought at he time I wore glasses and it was not to be, that is how I ended up as an R/O which in later life I never regretted as it gave me the opportunity for a career ashore when I left the sea.


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## Wismajorvik (Dec 29, 2011)

cajef said:


> As a youngster in my early teens I always wanted to go to sea as a deck officer, one of my best friends father was a Captain and he used to take us on board his ship when it was in port, unfortunately as I thought at he time I wore glasses and it was not to be, that is how I ended up as an R/O which in later life I never regretted as it gave me the opportunity for a career ashore when I left the sea.


I wanted to run away to sea when I was six years of age. I passed the MoT eye sight tests when I was 13, prior to attending a pre-sea training school. To my dismay at the age of 16 I failed the MoT Lantern test and could not take up a deck apprenticeship.With stars in my eyes I looked at the remaining maritime careers and selected R/O as being the quickest to get to sea. Off to college alongside guys who had been building radio sets from the cradle. My only advantage was having learned morse on lamp. No regrets, as coming ashore my initial training allowed me to develop and I worked in SE Asia, the Middle 
East and Africa. I have always passed eye sight colour tests, including military standards. It was just the MoT paraffin lamps with the coloured lens projected into a mirror that I failed twice.....


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## david.hopcroft (Jun 29, 2005)

Ref #6 John

I was at Riversdale Tech in 1962 with a chap who had been an AB on Norwegian ships, but sadly I can't remember his name. He left as soon as he got his 2nd Class to go back to Norwegian swhips.

David
+


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## Barrie Youde (May 29, 2006)

As a matter of interest, did service as a Sparks qualify for any remission of the standard four-years on deck requirement for Second Mate's Certificate?

It seems unlikely. Can anybody confirm either way?


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## Stephen J. Card (Nov 5, 2006)

Barrie Youde said:


> As a matter of interest, did service as a Sparks qualify for any remission of the standard four-years on deck requirement for Second Mate's Certificate?
> 
> It seems unlikely. Can anybody confirm either way?




You might get a free pass for Signals exam when going up for Second Mate. 

Worst situation.... it would be easy for sure!


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## Barrie Youde (May 29, 2006)

#20

Even on semaphore?!?!


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## Varley (Oct 1, 2006)

Sending morse by semaphore is easy (or it was prior to arthritis). Not sure about reading it 'though.


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## Troppo (Feb 18, 2010)

Barrie Youde said:


> As a matter of interest, did service as a Sparks qualify for any remission of the standard four-years on deck requirement for Second Mate's Certificate?
> 
> It seems unlikely. Can anybody confirm either way?


There was some talk of an accelerated scheme in Australia.

At one stage, I intended to retrain, so I did my steering ticket and used to do bridge watches with the mate as a makey-learnie. 

I think you had to do 500 hrs (?) understudy on the bridge...or maybe 100 for 2nd mates. Anyway, at the end, I was doing meal reliefs and anchor watches.

BUT, when they dangled the golden handshake in front of me, it was too good to resist with a young family...so down the gangway I ran.



My Dad was mate in ANL post WW2, and I had always mucked about in boats as a kid. I spent most weekends as a kid on Sydney harbour, and I had my boat licence at 16.

Do I regret my decision? No.


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## vasco (Dec 27, 2007)

Bill.B said:


> Was on the new maxi, for the time being, container ship Aisopos yesterday in Norfolk upgrading the Ecdis software. On getting the old man to sign off on my paperwork he asked if I had been an RO. When I replied yes he said he had graduated from Manchester as a sparkie in 85. In 95 he went to his native Indian maritime school and got his 2nd mates. He has had 19 trips as old man. Quite an achievements. I always knew we were under rated. Maybe the new proposed future fully automated ships only need one sparkie as crew?


Recently I have sailed with a Polish R/O that is now a 2/O. Don't get too excited, also sailed with an ex-cook that is now a 2/O.


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## James_C (Feb 17, 2005)

vasco said:


> Recently I have sailed with a Polish R/O that is now a 2/O. Don't get too excited, also sailed with an ex-cook that is now a 2/O.


I know of an ex cook now sailing as Master in tankers.
Also know of another bloke who started off as a steward, got to Purser, then saw the writing on the wall for that profession and so went on deck and also worked his way upto Master.


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## trotterdotpom (Apr 29, 2005)

david.hopcroft said:


> Ref #6 John
> 
> I was at Riversdale Tech in 1962 with a chap who had been an AB on Norwegian ships, but sadly I can't remember his name. He left as soon as he got his 2nd Class to go back to Norwegian swhips.
> 
> ...


Thanks David. The bloke I was talking about is Australian. He got his start by walking aboard a Norwegian ship in Australia and asking for a job ... the rest is history. I think his RO time may have been on Norwegian ships too but not sure. You definitely get the impression that Norski rules were more flexible than Those in the UK.

John T


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## trotterdotpom (Apr 29, 2005)

#23

I remember that stuff about bridge time - I thought it was a snow job. I'm sure you made the right decision. Not sure about the steering ticket - did they give you a piece of paper? As far as I know, even ABs in Australia didn't have "steering tickets", they just got appointed on seatime. Not that they couldn't steer, I just don't think there was an official certificate as in the UK.

John T

PS I was a cook who became an RO.


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## Varley (Oct 1, 2006)

Oh no ! We''ll now I have to allow the Galley to have a slot here - "Failed Cooks".

I take it that you mainly used the microwave?


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## trotterdotpom (Apr 29, 2005)

Varley said:


> Oh no ! We''ll now I have to allow the Galley to have a slot here - "Failed Cooks".
> 
> I take it that you mainly used the microwave?


In days of old when knights were bold and microwaves weren't invented .... a long story. 

Even now I only use a microwave for my low GI porridge which I definitely don't eat in the bath.

John T


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## Stephen J. Card (Nov 5, 2006)

Years ago I met a fellow who was Chief Officer in Holland America Line.... in the early 1970s. Passenger ships dwindling and the cargo fleet was almost finished. So... he went to Hotel College... and shifted to the few remaining passenger ships... in Holland America Line... and became a Hotel Manager. Eventually went into the Head Office. He told me about his time at sea. Said he knew both departments.... everyone hated him... he knew too much! Last time I saw him.... about twenty years ago, he and his wife were sailing in their yacht around the Caribbean. Whenever he saw a HAL ship in port he could pick up a few bit of 'stores'. ;-)


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## Troppo (Feb 18, 2010)

trotterdotpom said:


> #23
> 
> I remember that stuff about bridge time - I thought it was a snow job. I'm sure you made the right decision. Not sure about the steering ticket - did they give you a piece of paper? As far as I know, even ABs in Australia didn't have "steering tickets", they just got appointed on seatime. Not that they couldn't steer, I just don't think there was an official certificate as in the UK.
> 
> ...


There was an actual cert with defined requirements.

You had to do a set number of hrs on the wheel (can't remember how many, but it took a while...), as well as an entry and exit from a port.

I have the actual cert somewhere, signed by the OM.

(Thumb)


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## Naytikos (Oct 20, 2008)

I have never heard of a 'steering ticket' but I once drove a 212K DWT VLCC down the Maas from Shiedam to the Maascentre buoy in the dark.
While taking the customary beer before disembarking the pilot made a comment about 'the good helmsman'. The master enquired: can you guess who's steering?
The poor pilot, trying to be polite as dutch pilots always were, looked at me as if he was supposed to recognise the face and was rather embarrassed until the master said, "It's only the Marconi, he had nothing else to do this evening".


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## Stephen J. Card (Nov 5, 2006)

A good test of 'steering' is ability to steer a small vessel in a big sea.... and keep a good course and keep her head without heading all over the ocean. Not that gyro thing.... a real magnetic compass. A Steering Certificate requires 10 hours on the wheel. Small ship... four hours on/four hours off and in one day you have you twelve hours for your certificate!


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## purserjuk (Jul 23, 2005)

I sailed on a German chartered ship where the Master was an ex-R/O. He teased the ship's R/O unmercifully.
Purserjuk


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## trotterdotpom (Apr 29, 2005)

purserjuk said:


> I sailed on a German chartered ship where the Master was an ex-R/O. He teased the ship's R/O unmercifully.
> Purserjuk


Apparently, in the olden days, all the German Captains did some sort of RO ticket - maybe the equivalent of a "Special". I sailed with one in Oldendorff's andhe copied me calling him a **** when I was chatting to a Sanko sparks. That's what happens when you wig into private conversations. He might not have understood "****" but I bet he understood "****".

John T


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## trotterdotpom (Apr 29, 2005)

Troppo said:


> There was an actual cert with defined requirements.
> 
> You had to do a set number of hrs on the wheel (can't remember how many, but it took a while...), as well as an entry and exit from a port.
> 
> ...


Thanks, Troppo, I didn't know that. I seem to remember there was some sort of record book that had to be kept by the ROs doing that seatime thing.

I remember an Aussie AB ****ging that bloke who I mentioned before when he was Mate. He said: "What does a f****** Sparks know about being on deck?" I replied: "Well, he was a sailor on Norwegian ships so I expect he knows as much as you."

John T


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## bbyrne98 (Jun 27, 2007)

Troppo said:


> There was an actual cert with defined requirements.
> 
> You had to do a set number of hrs on the wheel (can't remember how many, but it took a while...), as well as an entry and exit from a port.
> 
> ...


12 hours I believe ... at least that's what my wife told me just now (she still proudly retains her signed certificate). I recall that she wasn't too impressed when completing her time, entering Table Bay under pilotage, just as the dinner chimes rang out. I can still recall the look of panic on her face ..


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## holland25 (Nov 21, 2007)

I sailed with a Captain who claimed to be able to send and receive Morse Code as well as I could. The engine needed a part and he and the Chief Engineer produced a message to send off to arrange for its supply at the next port. It was just a pile of numbers and I duly sent it,only to get a query back from the agents who said they couldn't recognise what was being asked for. When I gave the reply to the old man, he said, "Well it did have brackets hyphens etc but I didn't think they could be sent". They supplied the edited message, I sent it as written and the part was waiting.


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## Troppo (Feb 18, 2010)

trotterdotpom said:


> Thanks, Troppo, I didn't know that. I seem to remember there was some sort of record book that had to be kept by the ROs doing that seatime thing.
> 
> I remember an Aussie AB ****ging that bloke who I mentioned before when he was Mate. He said: "What does a f****** Sparks know about being on deck?" I replied: "Well, he was a sailor on Norwegian ships so I expect he knows as much as you."
> 
> John T


I used to do a trick on the wheel on every ship I sailed in after I got the ticket, just to keep my hand in. Oh, how it used to piss the SUA off....especially when I produced said cert...

I often miss being at sea...dealing with the boyos was not something I looked back on fondly, however...

(Cloud)


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## vasco (Dec 27, 2007)

Troppo said:


> There was an actual cert with defined requirements.
> 
> You had to do a set number of hrs on the wheel (can't remember how many, but it took a while...), as well as an entry and exit from a port.
> 
> ...


There still is, for Cadets at least. 10 hrs plus port entry/leaving.

I think it is now a requirement that the OOW ensures the Helmsman can steer, including changing over to, and using, all emergency modes.

Common sense, I know, but now it is required.


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## Naytikos (Oct 20, 2008)

It's been quite a few years since I saw a ship actually having a wheel. The tankers which deliver here all have only a small tiller in the 'wheelhouse' and on the wings. Push the lever to one side and watch the rudder angle indicator to see what happens. 
The very concept of a helmsman doesn't arise as the bridge layouts are akin to the cockpit of an airliner, with a large armchair and all the controls grouped within arms-length. There is no place for someone whose only job is to steer.

We get a wide variety of ships from 10 to 60K DWT and assorted flags, so it must be universal practice now.


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## ernhelenbarrett (Sep 7, 2006)

Was also an AB who wanted to go for 2nd Mates but on sitting the BOT Parafin
Light test was told by the examiner I hadn't failed but hadn't passed so my case
would be passed down to London (from Leith) Got word back I hadn't passed
so went back to Leith Nautical for my PMG. Funny thing that cos I had passed the
RAF aircrew eyesight test and could have been on V-Bombers as they 
promoted Flight Sargeant R/O's who had PMG "Tickets" to Flying Officers after 
the usual time spent on square-bashing.
Ern Barrett


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## Rope Locker (Sep 10, 2015)

Entertaining, to say the least! Long held suspicions about Sparkies confirmed.


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## spongebob (Dec 11, 2007)

Naytikos said:


> It's been quite a few years since I saw a ship actually having a wheel. The tankers which deliver here all have only a small tiller in the 'wheelhouse' and on the wings. Push the lever to one side and watch the rudder angle indicator to see what happens.
> The very concept of a helmsman doesn't arise as the bridge layouts are akin to the cockpit of an airliner, with a large armchair and all the controls grouped within arms-length. There is no place for someone whose only job is to steer.
> 
> We get a wide variety of ships from 10 to 60K DWT and assorted flags, so it must be universal practice now.


This promotes an odd ball question as to how big did ships get before they dropped the rack and chain direct steering systems.
I can remember some of the old counter stern steamships of SS&A and NZSco calling at Auckland just after the war that had a big emergency steering wheel on the poop, usually covered with canvas.

Bob


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## david freeman (Jan 26, 2006)

I am always appriative of the deck system for Master mariner, one could achieve with time and experience, and off course the critical eye sight tests, and good vision-colour and without glasses by going through the 'Hawsepipe'
For some reason the initial requirements for a ships engineer were more formal and craft lead, one could not with time aquire the necessary skills, altough in the early days many seagoing personnel sailed on one ship or within one shipping company continuously for their entire working life. Even a profeesional 3/e had at some time had to have had a token knowledge of engineering even if it was at the 'Singer Sewing machine factory in Scotland', or maybe as fishing boat/ ship engine hand. The logic I found sometimes hard to accept.
I must admit a leading engineer had to be able to draw, and make from the sketch a 'bit' part for a pump or other machine part, and be able to talk with meaning, not blastpheme at a drydock manager/repair shop manager, what was fundementally wrong with the piece of plant that was defective? especially in foriegn lands- non english speaking


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## J. Davies (Dec 29, 2010)

Naytikos said:


> It's been quite a few years since I saw a ship actually having a wheel. The tankers which deliver here all have only a small tiller in the 'wheelhouse' and on the wings. Push the lever to one side and watch the rudder angle indicator to see what happens.
> The very concept of a helmsman doesn't arise as the bridge layouts are akin to the cockpit of an airliner, with a large armchair and all the controls grouped within arms-length. There is no place for someone whose only job is to steer.
> 
> We get a wide variety of ships from 10 to 60K DWT and assorted flags, so it must be universal practice now.


Roger that, 

Last time I saw a ship with a wheel was more than 30 years ago. Mind you I have worked in the offshore industry since deep-sea days. Offshore boats have always been a generation ahead of deep sea ships where technology is concerned.

In those ancient times an officer of the watch was not allowed to sit on the hallowed pilot's chair, on pain of a logging. They had to stand up for 4 hours and not complain, even in the middle of the Pacific in flat calm seas, perfect visibility and nothing on the radar for 48 miles. I suppose the only time they could sit down would be for 5 minutes due to a call of nature.

A trained helmsman was required when manoeuvring in and out of port, at the big " Iron Mike" wheel-stand centre wheelhouse. It was a lowly job done by a rating, on the orders of the pilot. The on-watch officer would be twiddling with his dividers in the chart room or have his head in the radar. The old man would be smoking his pipe on the bridge wing exchanging anecdotes with the pilot.

I wonder if deep sea is still like that?

Happy days.


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