# The Deck Officer



## david freeman

Now u 4 ringers, and your chamber mates the 3 ringers: How are you all? Are we beneath you to engage in chat, unless we are talked at or disciplined by the rules and regs, and Logged? By gad sirs what is your chatter, as you worry about the ships cargo/manifest, those customs officers in far off lands, and of course one mottly crew? How dare we speak to you when not spoken too.
Does the modern ship whether she is the dirty british coaster, luxuary/cruise liner, tramp, tanker, fishing vessel or ferry, boxboat, have such a diverse trading pattern and native tonged crew, that as master one still has that remote and isolated pillar of responsibility, where ones own company is sometimes the best to keep?
Please answers on a postcard, for this past doddery old oily rag to enjoy, and relive the thrill or mundane life of a typical modern seafarer.


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## Chris Isaac

Bet you're glad to have got that off your chest.


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## R58484956

Well said Chris.


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## Varley

Did the Tonge make good crews I wonder, never sailed with them myself.

(Be kind to the lad, C/O Isaac. He's obviously only been in the hardest of engine rooms - not knowing that plumbers have rings too).


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## trotterdotpom

Howay David, how do you say "agent provocateur" in Boro speak?

John T


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## Varley

El Boro would, no doubt, use a classic language. I regret I have lost my Latin and I cannot get a translation of same from the web. How about Hebrew?

סוכן שתול


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## Binnacle

You were indeed fortunate, starting with a little sailors suit complete with brass buttons, an officer's type cabin, carpets, desk, table lamp, stewards serving you. Lucky you, some of us less privileged individuals only achieved this via the BOT examination room. Good luck to you.


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## Chris Isaac

Binnacle said:


> You were indeed fortunate, starting with a little sailors suit complete with brass buttons, an officer's type cabin, carpets, desk, table lamp, stewards serving you. Lucky you, some of us less privileged individuals only achieved this via the BOT examination room. Good luck to you.


Better a bit of braid on the shoulder than a chip.

Is the purpose of this thread to start unnecessary arguments?


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## slick

All,
I always thought of gold braid as my resentment detector, it seems to be working over the airways...
As a Tramp apprentice nothing but nothing was easy for 4 years then off to College and the Examiner...
Only after that did I notice things had eased up somewhat...

Yours aye, 
Slick


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## Barrie Youde

There are many of us here who have graduated from brass buttons and braid to no brass and no braid - and I doubt that there is a single one who has any regret in doing so.

The days when Bobby Shafto went to sea with silver buckles at his knee have long gone; and regrets in that regard help nobody.


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## Varley

Silver buckles. I'll be guide by your experience Barrie (although I didn't think you were quite that experienced!)

(Damn-it. I thought I'd been stoking this little fire more vigorously than has stuck to the thread. I must have pressed the wrong button)


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## China hand

I bet when Slick went to the examiner after 4 years in tramps, he passed his orals first go. Writeens for me were torment, orals:? been there, dunnit, got bowlocks to show apart from a bit of savvy>


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## Barrie Youde

#11

You are quite right David - I missed silver buckles by several decades (somewhere between ten and fifteen decades, at a guess)!

But I well remember collar studs, white scarves, kid gloves and gabardine macintoshes.


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## slick

All,
I too remember the studs white silk scarf( I've still got mine), unlined kid gloves etc.
My father educated me in looking after my gear, pressing, polishing and bulling shoes, he was after all a RAF Flight Sergeant who seemed to me in terrorising National Servicemen.
I still do all my own washing and ironing of shirts, my wife's comments you want that service you can do iot yourself...

Yours aye,

slick


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## Boatman25

The mention of an oilyrag suggests an engineer stirring wooden spoon to cause row between deck and engine room, the orficers still like fighting in retirement how boring


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## Varley

Dear me! I do remember collar studs but only at school. I have to add only for the most favoured scholars (or sporty types on a free pass) and that did not include me. I came across a few grubby neckerchiefs at sea but hardly worn for sartorial effect.

I did take advantage of a willing steward to wash and iron the whites for a few 'bucks' but ashore I have done everything except dry cleaning and ironing myself. I wear nothing frequently that needs dry cleaning and life is too short for the iron. Cleanliness is said (by some) to be next to Godliness no one claims flatness in the same breath.


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## Donald McGhee

Having been possibly one of the scruffiest apprentices in the MN in a past life I now have to say that, as age has finally brought some glimmer of self esteem, that I make every effort to appear smart and well turned out when I take our old paddle steamer onto the swirling waters.

My trousers have a sewn in crease, my shirt shows no wrinkles and my shoes positively glow! I am trying to set the example to the crew, some of whom seem determined to remain in a state of semi dishevelment, one giving the appearance of an avalanche with clothes!
They are though, a good bunch of people and I love 'em dearly.

I will persevere and for our training day I intend to spend some time teaching those barbarians the rudiments of ironing. For those of you SN members who are fortunate enough to live in Godzone please come for a trip and be prepared to be amazed at the splendour of the Skipper. Should anything unforeseen occur at least I will have gone down in a neat and highly pressed condition. Our season starts on Labour weekend in October. Not that I'm advertising!


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## Engine Serang

Cleanliness is said (by some) to be next to Godliness.

Cleanliness is next to Godliness, but not on my ship.


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## Barrie Youde

#15

There is no question of a fight here, Boatman.

There are merely numerous responses to a request for answers.


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## Barrie Youde

It seems probable that white britches with silver buckles at the knee were abandoned quite quickly when it was realised that a coal-burning steam-engine could be a useful thing in any ship.


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## Varley

Was it not Napoleon who ridiculed the concept of his warships ever being propelled by underdeck bonfires? Silver buckles were surely on their way out in his heyday, before one of his got in that lucky shot and downed that diminutive Admirable that we had so unsportingly put up against him. More sporting at Camperdown, we gave his Dutch allies a more handsome target (has anyone a clue as to why the Dutch were his allies?).


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## Dartskipper

I don't know if the Dutch signed a treaty with Napoleon. I think they just fancied a punch up with us and joined in the party. They may have felt aggrieved over some territorial dispute in a distant colony.


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## Engine Serang

I remember collar studs but only when my father put them in on a sunday morning. Not only did we go to church in the 60's but we dressed up to do so.
My gabardine macintosh was a very dressy garment but not designed for other than a light shower, ok on the bridge and the occasional walk out the bridge wings. A pair of oilskins and a sou'wester was your only man for the foc'sle.
Wouldn't we have loved gore-tex, warm, comfortable and dry. One wonders if H&S and PPE was an EU idea. (Don't mention the "B" word).


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## Split

david freeman said:


> Now u 4 ringers, and your chamber mates the 3 ringers: How are you all? Are we beneath you to engage in chat, unless we are talked at or disciplined by the rules and regs, and Logged? By gad sirs what is your chatter, as you worry about the ships cargo/manifest, those customs officers in far off lands, and of course one mottly crew? How dare we speak to you when not spoken too.
> Does the modern ship whether she is the dirty british coaster, luxuary/cruise liner, tramp, tanker, fishing vessel or ferry, boxboat, have such a diverse trading pattern and native tonged crew, that as master one still has that remote and isolated pillar of responsibility, where ones own company is sometimes the best to keep?
> Please answers on a postcard, for this past doddery old oily rag to enjoy, and relive the thrill or mundane life of a typical modern seafarer.


The Old Man Chief, 2nd engineer and Yours Truly, as mate, talked about other ships and the officers who sailed in them.

The rest of the crowd? That would have put us off our gin and tonics.
Don't forget the wives, there were, always, some of them with us and they did not like us knowing anyone, who was not an officer.


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## lakercapt

As Slick mentioned as a tramp ship apprentice we were far from being treated with the silver spoon and used to be allocated the worst jobs on board.
Only ate in the saloon on Christmas day except for my last three months.
It was only after attaining my Second Mates certificate of competency that was allowed to eat in the saloon and be served.
As master I did keep my own council and it was a lonely position though on Canadian ships it was a much more relaxed relationship with the crew


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## david freeman

Thank you all, what a nice collection of readers we have On SN. The deck section has been quiet for quite a while? Me that Engineer? No Sir just your motley servant, who made things tick, in the holy of holies, like others in a hole?. I enjoyed reading all the postcards duly returned.
Regards.
ps I am still that Oily rag! But not much sense!


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## Binnacle

Thank you David for giving us our correct title, some marine engineers (gingerbeers) referred to us as "*navvies*".


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## Engine Serang

David, you do indeed deserve praise for not referring to them as Deck Ornaments.


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## Varley

Come along chaps and let them have their thread back. Its beginning to get all over with dirty finger marks.


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## Engine Serang

A bit of shuttle diplomacy never goes wrong.


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## Dartskipper

One of the first lessons my Dad learned when he went to sea as a navigating apprentice in 1936 was that "Oil and water don't mix." Dad having a rebellious streak in his character then decided to find out as much as he could about what went on in the engine room. He wasn't very mechanically minded, but he got to appreciate things from the engineers point of view, and when he taught me the dark arts of handling a powered vessel, he said that I had to use as few engine movements as possible. None of this fancy Dan full ahead and full astern stuff for him!

He often reminisced about good times shared with the engineers over a few beers, and never forgot a very junior engineer who was with him when they had to abandon Empire Norseman after she was torpedoed. Jimmy Jesamime from Glasgow, I believe. Long gone now, of course.

Dad taught me well, and I went a bit further and learned to look after the mechanical stuff as well as the navigating and ship handling stuff. All very useful in small power craft.

Roy.


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## jmcg

david freeman said:


> Thank you all, what a nice collection of readers we have On SN. The deck section has been quiet for quite a while? Me that Engineer? No Sir just your motley servant, who made things tick, in the holy of holies, like others in a hole?. I enjoyed reading all the postcards duly returned.
> Regards.
> ps I am still that Oily rag! But not much sense!


The thread is missing a contribution(s) from the one and only Bill Davies - sorry Captain Bill Davies.

Where is he?

BW

J(Gleam)(Gleam)


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## Alistair Macnab

*Apprentice Deck Officers...*

As an Apprentice during the early 1950s the only companions we had aboard ship were the junior engineers who were at least four years older than me but were more friendly and just as raw about seagoing and shipboard protocol.

They were usually time-served fitters from shipyards or heavy industry and at sea instead of the military draft which was in effect at the time. We had lots of fun and common interests in movies, music, beer, girls, etc. which made them natural pals .

I believe this coming together of deck and engine at the time established life-long sympathy and understanding between the two departments which later created a comfortable understanding at subsequent senior ranks which had sometimes not been the case in earlier times.

Of course, air conditioning and multi-ethnic officers eventually drove the departments asunder and towards co-ethnic rather than co-rank companions and the end of sea-going as a serious ambition.
Oil and Water mixed on the best run ships and I do not recall any feelings of superiority or discrimination when I was at sea until 1968 and subsequently shore-side in management until 1981.


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## Binnacle

For many years I have exchanged greeting cards with four former shipmates, all good men to have aboard, fair weather or foul, all former chief engineers. Sadly one died last year, his ashes buried at sea RIP.


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## Chris Isaac

jmcg said:


> The thread is missing a contribution(s) from the one and only Bill Davies - sorry Captain Bill Davies.
> 
> Where is he?
> 
> BW
> 
> J(Gleam)(Gleam)


He walked the plank some time ago.


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## Chris Field

With regard to the items concerning dhobying (washing and ironing for those who didn't do time with Ellermans) I was taught those skills before going away as an apprentice in 1952, and was quite good at it.
The result was that on the "City of London" we had a stewardess who got me to do her ironing (mainly her white uniforms) and rewarded me with an occasional beer at the back door of the passenger saloon....


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## John Briggs

Oh for the innocence of youth!
You should have bargained for a much better reward!


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## Varley

Perhaps "occasional beer" is a euphemism?


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## Engine Serang

Twinned with a swift half.


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## Chris Isaac

"Occasional beer" may not be a euphemism but I bet that "back door of the passenger saloon" certainly is!


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## alan ward

Boatman25 said:


> The mention of an oilyrag suggests an engineer stirring wooden spoon to cause row between deck and engine room, the orficers still like fighting in retirement how boring


Personally I`m just pleased it isn`t the common`Tell us about thieving Chief Steward/Pursers/Cooks/Captains Bonds that starved/fleeced you to line their pockets`thread starters that gratefully seem to have died away.There have been always been moaning,resentful,poor shipmates, luckily I met few.There was little deadwood carried on a Merchant Ship it wasn`t tolerated and if you didn`t do your job properly and efficiently then your head of departments end of voyage report soon saw you off.


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## Engine Serang

The occasional time I heard a shipmate talk about,
" Thieving Chief Steward/Pursers/Cooks/Captains Bonds that starved/fleeced me to line their pockets",
it was always ex Bank Line Officers.

In saying so I risk the wrath of Inverforths Commandos coming down like a wolf on the fold, but there you have it.`


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## endure

Chris Isaac said:


> "Occasional beer" may not be a euphemism but I bet that "back door of the passenger saloon" certainly is!



(Jester)


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