# The Bay of Biscay



## Pam Turner

According to Mum, some time ago I might add, who got this from Dad, even longer ago, the Bay of Biscay could be quite tricky to navigate because of choppy seas. Is there some truth in this?


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## Dickyboy

Very true. It can be a very nasty stretch of water. Much of it because it's fully exposed to the North Atlantic for all of its length. It's often said "Rough in the Bay, calm outside or visa versa" This is often the case.
Not always rough, but very often.
Ships crossing the Bay are generally heading North or South, so usually have a beam sea, which can be uncomfortable even in a moderate sea.
PS I should add that most shipping doesn't actually enter the Bay of Biscay, it crosses the mouth of it.


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## Pam Turner

Completely understand, just from the goeography alone, about exposure to the North Atlantic. Less clear about the reference to the beam sea. Does that mean constant buffeting to port/ starboard sides of the ship depending upon direction of travel? 
How bad could it get?


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## Dickyboy

Pam Turner said:


> Completely understand, just from the goeography alone, about exposure to the North Atlantic. Less clear about the reference to the beam sea. Does that mean constant buffeting to port/ starboard sides of the ship depending upon direction of travel?
> How bad could it get?


A Beam sea is when the waves hit the side of a ship, and makes the ship roll (Rock) from side to side. The Beam is 90 deg between the Bow and the Stern, and is also the width of the ship.


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## Pam Turner

Thank you. Think, respectfully, you have confirmed, what I thought? The sides of the ship took a beating in the Bay of Biscay more often than not?
Did seafarers dread this part of their trip?


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## Stephen J. Card

I just crossed the Bay three weeks ago, Southampton then 3 days down to Ponta Delgada. Very light winds and low swell. Take your chances! Right now we are getting ready to sail from Halifax, seven days all the way to Southampton. Well, whatever is the weather tonight will likely to have the same all the way across. The food is good. The wine of free. I don't think there will be many problems. ;-)

Honestly, if you see heavy weather on the North Atlantic you might catch it, or you might not. If you own your own ship and you can stay I port, just watch the weather. If it is someone else's boat, stay with the boat or stay ashore. 

Stephen


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## Dickyboy

Pam Turner said:


> Thank you. Think, respectfully, you have confirmed, what I thought? The sides of the ship took a beating in the Bay of Biscay more often than not?
> Did seafarers dread this part of their trip?


If you look on YouTube, you should be able to find vid's of ships crossing the Bay of Biscay. 
I was on big ships, so I was never in dread, more uncomfortable. Coastal shipping, smaller ships, would have had a much harder time of it, and I guess that could be scary.

PS


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## Laurie Ridyard

Dickyboy said:


> If you look on YouTube, you should be able to find vid's of ships crossing the Bay of Biscay.
> I was on big ships, so I was never in dread, more uncomfortable. Coastal shipping, smaller ships, would have had a much harder time of it, and I guess that could be scary.
> 
> PS https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2B6y5OfWp0


Ha! That video does not show a a sea on the beam. It is about 2 points on the st'b'd bow.

It's hardly rough , either. I would put the wind at no more than force 4 or 5.

Laurie.


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## Dickyboy

Laurie Ridyard said:


> Ha! That video does not show a a sea on the beam. It is about 2 points on the st'b'd bow.
> 
> It's hardly rough , either. I would put the wind at no more than force 4 or 5.
> 
> Laurie.


I know that.


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## george e mitchell

hi. I took my wife on a 5 month voyage to Australia and back to London, Every
thing went well till We left the Med. right into an Atlantic Storm ( Mid November) then into the Bay of Biscay, The rolling of the ship was so violent that we had to install ropes in the engine room just to get about and not be thrown into the engine. It was impossible to walk anywhere without holding on to something. The Galley just made sandwiches My wife never got out of her bunk for a couple of days and was terrified, In my nine years in M,N, its the worst I had been In . Another storm I was in was so violent the spare engine liner storage cradle started breaking away from the engine room casing, that
was in the Med on route to GENOA Change course and reduce speed into the sea. All hands to secure the engine liner, deck and engine crew
That particular ship, ( AFRIC was designed to carry wool But we had a full load of lead ore in the lower holds, The rolling motion was extremely quick

However when I started off in trawlers going to Iceland in the winter it was much worse , in the smaller ships that why I left trawling for calmer and warmer climes, All the best George


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## Dickyboy

This is a bit more like a ship rolling in a Beam Sea Pam.....


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## saudisid

*Biscay*

Looking at the start of the video you can see the foam of the breaking crests being blown along the line of the wind a bit more than 4 - 5. I would say nearer 7 .

Alan


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## Dickyboy

saudisid said:


> Looking at the start of the video you can see the foam of the breaking crests being blown along the line of the wind a bit more than 4 - 5. I would say nearer 7 .
> 
> Alan


Good roll on her though 
The worst rolling I encountered was in that area. Roughly from the Clyde down to Gib. 30deg either way, and quite slow, like a pendulum. On a tanker flying light, so nothing but a lot of spray coming inboard. Very tiring on the legs, even just keeping lookout. 5 or 6 days of it if I recall correctly. No stress involved though.


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## george e mitchell

hi,Pam There is some really good videos on utube ( TRAWLERS IN BAD WEATHER,)also supply boats entering Aberdeen Harbour,
That will show you how trawlermen work, After I left merchant navy I did two
years on a rig supply boat where 40 ft waves are quite normal in Winter One trip our tug was being towed by the barge, right across the North sea to Norway 
before we got in under control
When I left supply boats and joined the oil rigs one winter we had 120 mph wind and 80 ft waves North of Shetland, Had to disconnect the well and ride it out.We were fortunate not to snap our 3 inch dia chains but others were not so lucky. Shipping forecast Northern North sea Westerly Storm force 10 is quite normal in winter,


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## Pam Turner

*Bay of Biscay*

Think the responses received vindicate the tiny amount of knowledge passed down that the Bay of Biscay was unpredictable and more likely to be rather rough for those traversing her, more often than not. Given that my Dad in the 60s was mainly on Ellerman & Papayanni ships on the Medi run mainly to Oporto, Lisbon and perhaps other Medi destinations on a regular basis, and would have had to negotiate the Bay of Biscay very frequently, would that have taken some kind of toll on him? Or is that impossible to say, or hard to say? 
I love a storm but my experience is seeing a storm from a room in my house, would I feel the same if I was in the engine room of a small cargo vessel?


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## Dickyboy

If you look in the "Shipping Lines" part of the site you'll find a section on Ellermans, and you might find pictures of his ships in the "Gallery" if you know the names of them.


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## tsell

Pam Turner said:


> According to Mum, some time ago I might add, who got this from Dad, even longer ago, the Bay of Biscay could be quite tricky to navigate because of choppy seas. Is there some truth in this?


Hello, Pam, you have some very apt descriptions from members above, regarding the Bay of Biscay.
The Bay is well-represented in sailors' folklore, it is a magical stretch of water to some, a terrifying potential graveyard to others. There are a number of song versions about the almost ninety thousand square miles of ocean, which has been the connecting sea between French and Spanish ports for centuries. I found the Bay to be much loved by the Basque fishermen from picturesque Saint Jean de Luz. 

I first heard of it through one of the song versions - The Bay of Biscay. O! - as a kid at school in Wales. One version:

http://lyricsplayground.com/alpha/songs/t/thebayofbiscay.shtml

However, my next encounter was to be a little closer when I joined my first ship, 'SS Sheaf Arrow', and upon which, leaving France for Bilbao, we encountered a massive hurricane, not the first I was to experience during the crossing as it turned out.

The threads, 'Flying Enterprise', you will find interesting for the descriptions of the storms, where I have a number of posts and also a poem that I wrote about the encounter with my first hurricane on that voyage, which almost claimed my young life.

Member, Stephen J Card, generously has painted a magnificent picture of the little, 2,000 ton, Sheaf Arrow, with the list which almost claimed us. It is also posted in the thread.

The poem is titled: 'A Young Lad's Initiation to Life at Sea' - My First Trip as Peggy!

Best regards

Taff


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## trotterdotpom

Yep, there are bays all over the world but what is known as "THE Bay" is the Bay of Biscay.

I saw plenty of crap weather there but my last view was of a beautiful sunny day and calm blue sea - pity I was on a bloody train (the Transcantabrico) on the north coast of Spain!

John T


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## Dickyboy

The Bay was seen by me as the gateway to the world of warmer climes, and an escape from NW Europe. Also the final deep sea leg of a voyage before reaching the English Channel and home waters.


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## BobClay

I went round Cape Horn in 1981 and while I'd like to say it was a terrifying experience the fact is it was as flat as a millpond and almost dead calm. I've had far worse crossings of Biscay.

I actually feel guilty about saying I'm a Cape Horner.


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## Engine Serang

My experience of Biscay from VLCC's to 1800 GT Coasters is that it is no worse than many other stretches of water. 
Fable has it that passenger ships generally sailed from Southampton early afternoon and everyone had a few drinks, and a bottle of wine, before Dinner, and a few brandies before turning in.
Next morning Sir and his good Lady Wife were feeling a bit green around the gills and of course the weather was blamed, no brekky or luncheon on Day 2.

By Day 3 all hands had found their sea-legs and rather than admit any weakness or inability to hold drink Biscay was blamed, scape-goated.

How many times has the reader felt unwell after a mighty session and blamed a bad pie on the way home from the pub.


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## tsell

15th December 1950:
Along with a number of other ships not mentioned in the newspaper report, the Sheaf Arrow was listing heavily and half full of water, with a cargo of iron ore, but we made it home - just!

http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/2812702

We hadn't been drinking - it was real!!

Taff


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## D1566

Last time I crossed Biscay was on a semi-sub rig being towed; it was flat calm, after enjoying one of the roughest Mediterranean passages I can remember.


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## BobClay

My old man told me a story once about when he was shipping out to Egypt for the build up to El Alamein. He was on a troop ship packed to the gills and when they turned into Biscay the ship became a nightmare. To avoid the smell and the terrible sound of vomiting he went up on deck. He said he was lucky as he was never bothered by motion and when up in the fresh air he noticed another soldier standing by the rail and also seemingly unbothered.

Glad of somebody to talk to who wasn't trying to puke out his skeleton and went up and said hello. The fellow looked at him for a second than turned to the sea and fired a football sized glob of puke high into the sky.


"After that," he told me. "I didn't say anything to anyone until we'd turned the bloody corner at Finisterre."

:sweat:


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## Pat Kennedy

Pam Turner said:


> Think the responses received vindicate the tiny amount of knowledge passed down that the Bay of Biscay was unpredictable and more likely to be rather rough for those traversing her, more often than not. Given that my Dad in the 60s was mainly on Ellerman & Papayanni ships on the Medi run mainly to Oporto, Lisbon and perhaps other Medi destinations on a regular basis, and would have had to negotiate the Bay of Biscay very frequently, would that have taken some kind of toll on him? Or is that impossible to say, or hard to say?
> I love a storm but my experience is seeing a storm from a room in my house, would I feel the same if I was in the engine room of a small cargo vessel?


I was in a couple of those Papayanni boats, the _Patrician_ and the _Florian_. They were very lively crossing Biscay, but even worse was MacAndrew's _Vives_ which, on the same run practically did cartwheels.
Pat


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## Ron Stringer

As others have said, the sea can be rough in the Bay of Biscay but, like all other sea areas, it can be virtually flat calm at other times. E&F's _Golfito _(and her companion, _Camito_) ran a regular circular run from Southampton to Barbados, Trinidad and Jamaica then back to Southampton four weeks later. 

Leaving Southampton on Tuesday mornings we would head across the Bay to pass through the Azores en route to Bridgetown, Barbados. I did 7 trips on that run (June through to February) and generally we had calm to moderately rough seas while crossing the Bay.

However we had one trip where we sailed out through the Needles into a gale which persisted for two or three days. Out of 110 passengers I was told that only 3 were turning up for meals in the saloon on the first two days. The night steward told me that the cabin stewards were run off their feet meeting the demands for "Just a pot of tea and some toast please, steward."

I have to admit that the _Golfito _did roll quite a lot in seas that were on the beam and the quarter and, since we had a passenger and mail schedule to keep, she was pushed rather hard at times - so much so that pounding was not unusual if the weather was heavy. But most of the time there was never and drama crossing the Bay.


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## TonyAllen

first trip on the ore carrier avistone from bidston midnight .felt rather queasy next morning then hit the bay ,done for 2 days flat on my bunk ,back on my feet still could not eat until we past gib ..she sailed light outward for the 3 trips I did on her always felt the bay trip the worst


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## howardws

After passing through the Bay in a force 12 on P&O Ferries 'Eagle' we took four days to discharge the vehicle deck in Lisbon - mainly using fork lift trucks! That would have been about 1974 or 5.


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## Geoff Gower

*very true*

If traversing across the Bay your heading is roughlySouth West or North East.Prevailing Atlantic storms normally blow from the North West so are beam on to ships which is far from ideal as the vessel will roll excessively. In the years of sail many ships were blown into the bay and wrecked because of this. Biscay is hardly ever a decent passage, and can be termed a rather " lumpy " ride !


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## RHP

I remember crossing the Bay on a car ferry into Santander and the bridge windows were knocked out by the waves. She unloaded, reloaded and went out for more. Rock 'ard.


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## Bill.B

#28 . Wasn't the pilot washed off the ladder boarding the Eagle in 74. I heard a broadcast from Niton radio asking vessels to look out for the pilot. It was a nasty winter that year. I was on RFA Engadine that winter trying to run up and down the Channel for the navy to do their helicopter submarine hunting. Unfortunately they couldn't get a Devonport submarine to work so we just cruised/gyrated up and down for a week doing deck landings. Also that week we fished debris from Ted Heaths sunken yacht out of the channel.


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## slick

All,
There is always the Pentland Firth......

Yours aye,

slick


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## howardws

Bill.B said:


> #28 . Wasn't the pilot washed off the ladder boarding the Eagle in 74. I heard a broadcast from Niton radio asking vessels to look out for the pilot. It was a nasty winter that year. I was on RFA Engadine that winter trying to run up and down the Channel for the navy to do their helicopter submarine hunting. Unfortunately they couldn't get a Devonport submarine to work so we just cruised/gyrated up and down for a week doing deck landings. Also that week we fished debris from Ted Heaths sunken yacht out of the channel.


He was. She was going into Falmouth having had her bridge windows smashed and her steering controls put out of action. She was being steered from the steering flat by an engineer responding to telephone orders - the orders were shouted through the bridge door to the Chief Engineer in his cabin and passed to a telephone in the steering flat, it being the one from the Pig and Whistle fitted with a very long extension lead. The normal sound powered phone having been flooded.


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## Gordon Steel

slick said:


> All,
> There is always the Pentland Firth......
> 
> Yours aye,
> 
> slick


 Especially when the tides were going the wrong way but still not as bad as the Bay!!!! Gordon


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## Farmer John

After the Battle of Trafalgar the destruction of ships damaged in the battle was awful.
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=s...EHxoKHTPUA5YQ9QEIhgEwEw#imgrc=UhHQf3D3NqPFOM:


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## Cutsplice

In my humble opinion the Bay of Biscay had a reputation that was not really warranted, there were many sea areas which had quite rough passages at times just as bad as Biscay.


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## lazyjohn

Pam Turner said:


> Completely understand, just from the goeography alone, about exposure to the North Atlantic. Less clear about the reference to the beam sea. Does that mean constant buffeting to port/ starboard sides of the ship depending upon direction of travel?
> How bad could it get?


Just a bit extra. I recently attended a lecture by an oceanographer lecturing aboard MV Marco Polo. She added that the waves in the Bay of Biscay are also enhanced by the shape of the bay. This tends to make the waves at the north and south ends of the bay more erratic due to current and tides being reflected and rereflected from the French coast. Over the years, on the So'ton to the Cape run, I never noticed.


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## george e mitchell

I have commented with a previous post that in my nine years on the Australia New Zealand run I only had two bad encounters in the bay of Biscay, I also mentioned trawling in ICELAND waters, Then I did thirty odd winters in the northern north sea in rig supply ships, and rigs, In the 1970s the supply ships were something new ,most American built and were not really suitable for bad weather, built for the gulf of Mexico, On three separate vessels we came back
to Shetland with all the bridge windows smashed in, Wiped out bridge control
the lower decks and galley awash with water, steering was manual hydraulic
Quite an effort, Over the years these vessels became larger and larger 
with more power, 1970 anchor handing 8000 bhp now they are in the region
of 16000 hp and giants ,But the worst motion I have ever encountered was on oil rigs West of Shetland winter time, huge Atlantic rollers coming from the west up to 80 ft swell at times, under the main deck the sea white with breakers Noise of the anchor chains was unbelievable All four thrusters 2000 HP each into the wind Plus 8, x 20 ton anchors each on 3000 ft of 3 inch chain which would give the rig a motion of rolling and vertical lift like an elevator. This could go on for weeks.No crew changes, HELICOPTERS could not fly.To make it worse mid winter is perpetual darkness, On many winters never saw daylight for a whole trip one month. That rig was the first rig to drill west of Shetland and we never went back, Maybe with bigger rigs they have gone back.Theres plenty of oil there just hard to get,As mentioned in various posts there are many areas worse than Biscay. The furthest south I ever went was Bluff in New Zealand, sometimes that was bad, I have seen photos on this site with heavy seas breaking over the Gothic on her way back to Wellington after the fire on board,Going back to the rig the daily drilling log was just three letters, W.O.W ( waiting on weather ) thinking BACK would I do it again, Yes
,


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## 5036

Pam, a couple of videos showing the lvely conditions in the Bay.

1) A Russian salvage tug taking a broken down Russian aircraft carrier in tow. The back deck crew are working on the limits, watch for a rocket being fired from the carrier at 01:24 with a messenger line, a fine shot from the carrier but the back deck of the tug is not a happy place to be with a rocket landing beside you.






2) The Abeile Flandre is one of several French Salvage and Emergency Response Vessels based at Brest in the Northern end of the bay of Biscay. It also gives an idea of life on the bridge.


3) A 12000 tonne cargo ship in the Bay of Biscay in a Force 10, it is a building up to the real storm around 04:00.


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## tsell

Cutsplice said:


> In my humble opinion the Bay of Biscay had a reputation that was not really warranted, there were many sea areas which had quite rough passages at times just as bad as Biscay.


I crossed the Bay 19 times, the last voyage, I kept going. 15 or 16 of these crossings were bad, three hurricanes, five or six seriously bad, with loss of lives and shipping, others distressed and badly damaged, as we were on a number of occasions. See my post #22 for a report of one storm which claimed 29 lives, one ship sunk and many others including ourselves, in trouble.
Of the oceans I crossed in my time at sea, although I experienced many bad storms, as we all did, there is only one stretch of water that I often crossed which comes close to the Bay's danger and that is Cook Strait, NZ, scene of the Wahine disaster.
In my experience, the Bay was capable of rapidly falling pressure resulting in fierce storms coming in from the west, where a short time earlier, we were sailing in relatively calm seas. The intensity, steep seas and the days-on-end before the storms blew out, were never as bad on other oceans, in my experience, but maybe I was just lucky.
I lost count of the number of times we were forced to shelter in places such as Bayonne and Saint Jean De Luz as it was just too bad to cross the Bay.

Taff


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## Shipbuilder

I crossed it literally hundreds of times between early 1961 and late 1992, but the only ship that is bothered much was the _Good Hope Castle_. Because she had very fine lines, and a service speed of 23.5 knots, she was often extremly lively in Biscay if it was rough. Eleven years crossing it regularly in a 3,150 gross ton ship, only 300 feet long, never gave it much thought. All in a day's work. It certainly didn't exact any toll on me. The only form of travel that took it out of me something awful was long-haul air travel that I hated, and I never intend to fly, ever again! The big Union-Castle liners seemed to be immune from it, and just passed through Biscay without much trouble (Apart from _Good Hope Castle_). Have also crossed it in general cargo ships, iron ore carriers, and an oil tanker, all of which took it in their stride!
Bob


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## philabos

Interesting discussion. I will be crossing the Bay next week.
Will keep all this in mind. 
Fortunately a mere passenger not running the show.


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## Pat Kennedy

The Great Australian Bight is the Southern hemisphere's version of Biscay. I had a couple of horrendous passages across there.

But the very worst I ever experienced was winter in the Irish sea on a Fisher's of Barrow coaster. trading between Liverpool and Belfast with coal, and coming back empty was guaranteed to instill a deep longing to go and sit under a tree somewhere far from any water. 
Pat(Bounce)


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## stevekelly10

Pat Kennedy said:


> The Great Australian Bight is the Southern hemisphere's version of Biscay. I had a couple of horrendous passages across there.
> 
> But the very worst I ever experienced was winter in the Irish sea on a Fisher's of Barrow coaster. trading between Liverpool and Belfast with coal, and coming back empty was guaranteed to instill a deep longing to go and sit under a tree somewhere far from any water.
> Pat(Bounce)


I too experienced The great Australian Bight and yes it was far worse then the Bay of Biscay ! But the worst I have ever experienced was the North Sea in Winter. I was on BP's Emergency support , semi submersible vessel Iolair. It had the weirdest motion of any vessel I Have ever sailed on. It would roll a bit, stay there, roll a bit more, stay there, roll a bit more, stay there a short while and suddenly shift back to a roll in the opposite direction ! I was thrown out of my bunk, on more than one occasion when this happened! Apparently in model tank test's of the Iolair, It was shown that it would float better upside down, than the way it was supposed too !


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## george e mitchell

,Watching the videos and stories on this thread and participating I remembered
what my father said to me when I said I was going trawling on the Icelanders,
He said if that's all the sense ive got then off you go, My entire family were connected to fishing and my dad had been trawling most of his life, After a couple of horrendous trips weatherwise ( winter time ) I realised what he meant, I changed to the big ships, in the Merchant Navy. The story I tell which ive never forgotten was the BBC did a do***entary about a trawler from Hull, fishing Icelantic waters The film crew and interviewer never knew what hit them, A howling gale , sea breaking over the ship, and the crew Fighting with the ice , horizontal snow Many a ship never returned to port
Became top heavy with ice and turned over losing all hands Triple sinking Hull trawlers in one week, 58 crew lost 1968 (SEE ON UTUBE )
The interviewer asked one of the older deckhands why he did this job, and he answered, To get a break from the wife, Ive never forgotten that statement.

I have all ready written on this thread about conditions on the North sea and further north Iceland and Norway, But the thing most prevalent was the total darkness 24 hours a day in winter, The horrendous noise of 50 ft of breaking water coming down on you and no sleep, I have been in many storms in
the 30 odd years.in the north sea but the worst was on a Sedco oil rig Well north of Shetland,Recorded wind westerly 120 mph Sea height recorded 80 ft, Drill string disconnect Being anchored we couldn't go anywhere
Waves over the main deck 50 feet up, Our rig had four 2000 hp thrusters on full power into the waves plus anchors, Several other rigs with no thrusters in the area had broken anchor chains, Why did I do it, It certainly wasn't to get away from the wife but over the years it just become a way of life, Just like the deep sea trawler men


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## BobClay

I remember coming up the Atlantic from Tubarao on the E.W Beatty, a big ore carrier loaded with iron ore. We were playing 'Solo' in the bar and the ship was rolling heavily. One roll started going over, it went so far and as we contemplated our cards we reached out and grabbed our glasses with one hand pretty much automatically. The roll went further over, and all banter stopped. Then it went further and the drawers in the bar jumped over their stops and careened across the deck, spilling out Monopoly money, Risk armies, (small wooden blocks) and dozens of playing cards. We started to look at each other. Then the roll went further still and it was clear we were all thinking of jumping up and running to our stations, but with a creak and a groan the roll finished and the ship rolled back.

I had honestly thought the ship was going to keep on going and roll over into oblivion just for a few seconds.

Then one of the others said: "On the basis of that [email protected]@rd, I think I'll call Misère Ouverte." (In Solo, a pretty hard call.)

We played on.

Before turning in we did gather up all the [email protected] from the deck and put the drawers back in their slots. 

It was all out again next morning.


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## holland25

Lot of lamp swinging going on here,next you will be telling us that the stokers were falling out of the funnel.


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## trotterdotpom

#46 . ""On the basis of that [email protected]@rd, I think I'll call Misère Ouverte." "

Obviously he thought he had no tricks left up his sleeve. If he'd been hoping for some trumps, these days we'd say "Be careful what you wish fore!"

John T


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## george e mitchell

Holland 25, Having been at sea for thirty nine years in total, Thirty of them on rigs trawlers and supply boats. I believe I have seen and been in some of the worst storms, ESPECIALLY in Northern waters. I have never seen stokers falling out of the funnel but I have on two occasions seen men jumping off a supply vessel as it was capsizing, Once when the rig anchor jumped the bollard rode up the side of the deck, the weight of anchor chain pulled her over and another time a full deck load of pipes filled with sea water. and turned her over 
Loading rules for pipes was changed ,Pipe cargo had to be blanked,When that happens you only have seconds to get off , one rule with me nobody in the engine room when handling anchors. or discharging or loading pipes. 
I was in at the start of the oil boom in Uk. and in 1969 most of the supply boats
were American built and the two funnels, ( exhaust pipes ) were situated port and starbd aft decks, In storm conditions the sea would come over the deck and block the exhaust pipes stopping the engines, filling the engine cylinders with water Not a nice situation to be in, The other favourite was all the bridge windows getting stove in. These ships were banned and new designs putting exhaust behind the bridge up high, the rigs were also American built for the gulf of mexico, the design was the main engine exhaust pipes were under the rig.again the height of the waves could block the exhausts stopping the engines. Lucky if you didn't damage the turbo chargers. so that had to be changed also, In the original design the rig would have to be deballasted 
Being on a rig high in the water is no picnic Today most rigs ballast down in bad weather. I think you may be a radio operator so you would not have experienced a rig supply boat, only the largest Hull trawlers had one and the rigs, Its quite normal to scoff at the stories, hard to believe if you've not experienced it. There must be many people on this site that could confirm what I have written is accurate, IF you go on to u tube, select oil rig supply boats in bad weather you can see rigs and supply ships,, and you will see what I would say could be a normal winters day with the smaller 50 foot waves.
Todays supply boats and rigs in the north sea are massive compared to the original pioneers of the late 60s Any oil men out there to confirm.,There are posts on this thread from others regarding bad weather on rigs,


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## holland25

Well I did a spell during the winter on the North Atlantic Weather Ships which were converted WW2 frigates, and we did get a recommend from the Met Office for staying on station and reporting on a nasty event which developed around us.


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## george e mitchell

Hi AGAIN. In my early days the first nine Years at sea, I crossed the Atlantic 
many times, UK TO NEW YORK, I found the bad weather more comfortable
because of the long Atlantic rollers.when that gets to the North Sea the water piles up, all different direction Being on a ship you can go with the flow as they
say, on a rig your anchored to the sea bed , The weight of 8 anchors and chains
stopped the rig heaving,The sea can only go one way, over the top.
do realise being on station on a converted ww2 FRIGATE Mid Atlantic mid winter wouldn't be a picnic either All the best GEORGE


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## BobClay

holland25 said:


> Lot of lamp swinging going on here,next you will be telling us that the stokers were falling out of the funnel.


Well what can I say ? ... the waves were so high, and the troughs so deep, you could actually see exposed strips of the seabed in between. (cough) (Whaaa)(Gleam)


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## trotterdotpom

#51 . Nab Tower Lt Ho in Spithead sits on top of a concrete block full of water ballast. During storms the whole box and dice used to lift up. Sometimes my teacup moved across the table.

John T


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## Pat Kennedy

stevekelly10 said:


> I too experienced The great Australian Bight and yes it was far worse then the Bay of Biscay ! But the worst I have ever experienced was the North Sea in Winter. I was on BP's Emergency support , semi submersible vessel Iolair. It had the weirdest motion of any vessel I Have ever sailed on. It would roll a bit, stay there, roll a bit more, stay there, roll a bit more, stay there a short while and suddenly shift back to a roll in the opposite direction ! I was thrown out of my bunk, on more than one occasion when this happened! Apparently in model tank test's of the Iolair, It was shown that it would float better upside down, than the way it was supposed too !


I saw that Iolair when I was in Mull in the mid 1980s. She was heading South in a calm sea and really motoring along. I remember thinking 'I wouldn't mind a job in that' .
By the way Steve, I got your pm and replied to it but my response did not show in my sent messages list. Can you confirm if you received it.
Regards, 
Pat


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## trotterdotpom

Pat Kennedy said:


> The Great Australian Bight is the Southern hemisphere's version of Biscay. I had a couple of horrendous passages across there....)


The Bight is a headache alright, especially if you're westbound. Spectacularly bad is the section between Cape Nelson and the Backstairs Passage on the way up to Adelaide, universally known as " The Horror Stretch".

John T


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## 5036

holland25 said:


> Well I did a spell during the winter on the North Atlantic Weather Ships which were converted WW2 frigates, and we did get a recommend from the Met Office for staying on station and reporting on a nasty event which developed around us.


I think I am right in saying they were Flower Class Corvettes whose designs were based on Canadian whaling ships. "They rolled on wet grass" was the most common comment i heard from crew members who served on them, my father also served on them in WW2. I remember watching them coming in and going out on patrol and thinking about their lonel vigil.


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## 5036

george e mitchell said:


> Holland 25, Having been at sea for thirty nine years in total, Thirty of them on rigs trawlers and supply boats. I believe I have seen and been in some of the worst storms, ESPECIALLY in Northern waters. I have never seen stokers falling out of the funnel but I have on two occasions seen men jumping off a supply vessel as it was capsizing, Once when the rig anchor jumped the bollard rode up the side of the deck, the weight of anchor chain pulled her over and another time a full deck load of pipes filled with sea water. and turned her over
> Loading rules for pipes was changed ,Pipe cargo had to be blanked,When that happens you only have seconds to get off , one rule with me nobody in the engine room when handling anchors. or discharging or loading pipes.
> I was in at the start of the oil boom in Uk. and in 1969 most of the supply boats
> were American built and the two funnels, ( exhaust pipes ) were situated port and starbd aft decks, In storm conditions the sea would come over the deck and block the exhaust pipes stopping the engines, filling the engine cylinders with water Not a nice situation to be in, The other favourite was all the bridge windows getting stove in. These ships were banned and new designs putting exhaust behind the bridge up high, the rigs were also American built for the gulf of mexico, the design was the main engine exhaust pipes were under the rig.again the height of the waves could block the exhausts stopping the engines. Lucky if you didn't damage the turbo chargers. so that had to be changed also, In the original design the rig would have to be deballasted
> Being on a rig high in the water is no picnic Today most rigs ballast down in bad weather. I think you may be a radio operator so you would not have experienced a rig supply boat, only the largest Hull trawlers had one and the rigs, Its quite normal to scoff at the stories, hard to believe if you've not experienced it. There must be many people on this site that could confirm what I have written is accurate, IF you go on to u tube, select oil rig supply boats in bad weather you can see rigs and supply ships,, and you will see what I would say could be a normal winters day with the smaller 50 foot waves.
> Todays supply boats and rigs in the north sea are massive compared to the original pioneers of the late 60s Any oil men out there to confirm.,There are posts on this thread from others regarding bad weather on rigs,


The platforms were designed for the 100 Year Wave which was one 100 foot wave occurring once every 100 years. We had three in a week and one was 110 ft high, we know because it took scaffolding away that was the equivalent height of a 110 ft wave.


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## eddyw

I once crossed the outer Bay in a NW storm as a passenger in a liner. We enjoyed watching the fountains shoot high out of the hawse pipes until the bridge ordered foredecks out of bounds and deadlights were clamped to the forward screen windows. Then it was fascinating to lean over the quarter rail to see the the great brass props breaching. Bathrooms flooded, crockery smashed, almost empty dining saloons, hand lines rigged on outer decks, the exhaustion of bracing and and balancing against the motion. Not surprising that in the days of ocean travel voyagers in the know would give it a miss and go by rail via Paris to embark at Marseilles.


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## george e mitchell

Hi Bob, Ive seen the high peaks and the low troughs but not so low as you suggest. not surprising as we drilled in 600 / 1000 feet of water. Retired 2000
and I would not be bothered if I never saw another wave again.

Thanks Nav for confirming the fact of 110 foot wave does exist,. They say every hundred years but we know different. Don't know how many containers
have been washed over the stern over the years probably still lying on the sea bed somewhere. With the weather patterns now and global warming who
knows how high the waves will get.

All the best for now I spend hours on this site daily, George


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## stevekelly10

Pat Kennedy said:


> I saw that Iolair when I was in Mull in the mid 1980s. She was heading South in a calm sea and really motoring along. I remember thinking 'I wouldn't mind a job in that' .
> By the way Steve, I got your pm and replied to it but my response did not show in my sent messages list. Can you confirm if you received it.
> Regards,
> Pat


Hi Pat Yes I got your PM thanks. I thought you might have been working in Cammell Lairds or western ship repairers as it was then, When the Iolair was in there. It was after my time on her. I believe they had to use two drydocks, one pontoon in each dock and the mid section straddled across the bit in the middle !


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## sibby

I can concur with George. I was on the Lady Brigid, 667G.R.T , and the Lady Fiona 773 G.R.T. The supply ship that took supplies to the rigs stayed there until another boat came out with more supplies. There were no standby boats in those days. This was in1967. We got caught in a force 12 one trip, this was verified by the those on the rig. We did a nine mile corridor up and down the rig. Every time before we turned someone had to go down and warn the cook and engineer so that they could hold on to something. We were stuck out there for a week and ran out of grub just before we were relieved.


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## 5036

george e mitchell said:


> Hi Bob, Ive seen the high peaks and the low troughs but not so low as you suggest. not surprising as we drilled in 600 / 1000 feet of water. Retired 2000
> and I would not be bothered if I never saw another wave again.
> 
> Thanks Nav for confirming the fact of 110 foot wave does exist,. They say every hundred years but we know different. Don't know how many containers
> have been washed over the stern over the years probably still lying on the sea bed somewhere. With the weather patterns now and global warming who
> knows how high the waves will get.
> 
> All the best for now I spend hours on this site daily, George


I was on Treasure Finder, a flotel with 500 PAX onboard in December 1986 when the lowest low was recorded, 914 just south of Greenland and the German weather agency reckoned it to be 912 at its centre. We had 100+mph winds and 100 foot seas and just to make it interesting we were in the weather standby position 350 metres to the south-east and windward of Brent Charlie platform. There were three windward anchors that would hold us but the No 1 anchor chain had broken and the No7 was dragging so we were depending on the No 8 holding. I was charged with monitoring our position on the bridge through the night, ships crew were at the winches with gas axes ready to cut anchors if the No 8 started dragging the plan being to cut all anchors and use the No 6 to swing us away from the line of Brent Charlie but it would then have to be cut because of the live production lines below the anchor chains. At that point we would have been a dumb barge praying that we missed the Brent Bravo and Alpha platforms to leeward of us not to mention the Dunlin, Magnus, Thistle etc. 

We depended on coffee to keep us sharp in the early hours and after opening a new can of Nescafe I was berated for not making it strong enough and so made another which had the same effect. It was then I noticed that the can was the new fangled "decaffinated" and said can was hurled through an open wheelhouse window by the unhappy skipper into the hurricane before demanding a replacement was sent up ASAP from the galley with orders not to let such crap onto the bridge again.

The No 8 held and the PAX awoke next morning as the storm abated none the wiser of the precarious position that they had been in the night before.

A standby boat was off station due to weather and was ordered to turn around to get back to his station by staff on the platform. We listened to the conversation on the VHF and the standby skipper doubted he could do it, "I don't know what will happen!" he said but the demands were repeated. He turned around and ended up with his wheelhouse windows smashed by a broadside wave. He then headed for shelter at Shetland escorted by another standby vessel so the field ended up two standby vessels short.

Just another day at the office.

Happy days.


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## Bill.B

There was a story in CP Ships that CP Voyageur saw sand coming down a wave coming up channel on her way to Tilbury one winter. Think she had hull damage because of it.


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## george e mitchell

Hi SIBBY. reading your post brought back a memory about the Lady boats this is nothing to do with weather, When my youngest daughter was born I was home on leave, and was given the job of getting her registered, We had decided a name and off I went. On the way to the registry office I was walking through the harbour in Aberdeen Scotland when I saw the rig supply boat Lady Alison
When the forms were being completed I couldn't remember what the name was, so I called her Alison. When I got home I told my wife the new name,
I think it was a storm force 15 but I survived . my daughter is now 43 and has always liked her name 
.All the best to all George


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## BobClay

Now those CP boxboats could roll. I did a relieving trip on the CP Trader in late 1976. The radio room was abaft the bridge, a sort of long thin room with the operating position at the far end. I remember we were rolling our guts out in the North Atlantic and on one roll the chain on my chair broke and I set off down the length of the shack like Louis Hamilton on Steroids.

Compounding this I had headphones on with one of those telephone type coily leads and as I got further from the receiver this lead stretched out to high tension. The receiver was slightly angled and it seemed to me if that jack plug pulled out it would go up my nose like a .357 magnum hollow point !! Fortunately it held until I rolled back.

When I got back to Tilbury the regular RO re-joined and told me he was afraid I might try to 'steal' his ship !! (The regulars seemed to like this sh1t !!) I smiled thinly and wandered off toward the product tankers that worked the Caribbean. (LOL)


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## Pat Kennedy

stevekelly10 said:


> Hi Pat Yes I got your PM thanks. I thought you might have been working in Cammell Lairds or western ship repairers as it was then, When the Iolair was in there. It was after my time on her. I believe they had to use two drydocks, one pontoon in each dock and the mid section straddled across the bit in the middle !


Hi Steve. Yes I remember Iolair in Lairds, they put her in 6 and 7 docks.
I wasn't working in the yard then, and could only see her from the New Chester Rd, but still an impressive structure.
regards, 
Pat


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## Bill Morrison

george e mitchell said:


> Hi SIBBY. reading your post brought back a memory about the Lady boats this is nothing to do with weather, When my youngest daughter was born I was home on leave, and was given the job of getting her registered, We had decided a name and off I went. On the way to the registry office I was walking through the harbour in Aberdeen Scotland when I saw the rig supply boat Lady Alison
> When the forms were being completed I couldn't remember what the name was, so I called her Alison. When I got home I told my wife the new name,
> I think it was a storm force 15 but I survived . my daughter is now 43 and has always liked her name
> .All the best to all George


Hi George. I went to I.O.S. the Lady boats after I left Shaw Savill in 1970. I have posted this before in the Offshore Thread. 2nd Eng. on the Lady Alison when coming in to Great Yarmouth which was a hard turn to Starboard at the mouth of the river she wouldn't answer the helm and we hit the wharf on the far side punching a hole in the bow. After a quick patch job went to dry dock in South Shields where one of the rudders can't remember which had sheared off. She was built by Hall Russell's so nothing to do with your outfit!!
Bill


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## holland25

nav said:


> I think I am right in saying they were Flower Class Corvettes whose designs were based on Canadian whaling ships. "They rolled on wet grass" was the most common comment i heard from crew members who served on them, my father also served on them in WW2. I remember watching them coming in and going out on patrol and thinking about their lonel vigil.


The Flower class corvettes were used for the original WX ships but they were eventually retired, and by the time I was talking about they had been replaced by Castle class corvettes which were eventually re rated as frigates.


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## 5036

holland25 said:


> The Flower class corvettes were used for the original WX ships but they were eventually retired, and by the time I was talking about they had been replaced by Castle class corvettes which were eventually re rated as frigates.


Many thanks for that info, fascinating.


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## Dickyboy

The Bay was always a subject of speculation for a day or two before arriving there. Will it be rough? Won't it be rough? Tank cleaning could be a miserable job in the Bay as well.


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## holland25

nav said:


> Many thanks for that info, fascinating.


If you are interested you can find out a lot more at,http://www.weatherships.co.uk/.

Cheers.


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## sibby

#81 . George, the Lady Alison was being built as a stern trawler when I.O.S bought her, she was then converted to a supply ship.


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## Bill.B

The joy of a CP box boat Bob. I joined, with wife, Andes Discoverer in Hong Kong to do 6 months of the Pacific round trip. Of course the ship was set up for the North Atlantic and now in the Pacific the AC was kaput and all the ports sealed. Oh joy. It was not fun. Luckily we had a good crowd, white crew, and the trip was ok with no major weather, apart from a typhoon in Kobe. The radio room was as you said a bit like a railway carriage. Best part was catching up the schedule and being "stuck" in Hong Kong for 23 days at anchor.


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## Farmer John

Just forecasting Hurricane force 12 for sea area Fitzroy. Wouldn't want to be there.


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## BobClay

Is that hurricane Ophelia ? Been watching that one as it creeps up a peculiar track toward Europe, now a category 3 according the Storm Tracker.


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## george e mitchell

Hi Bill Morrison. our paths seemed to have criss crossed many times through the
years, You lived in torry, so did I . I joined Shaw Savill, so did you, We both left
Shaw Savill in the same year, WE both moved from Torry to near Cove about the same time. and now with your post ive found out you were 2nd eng on the Lady Alison and I was 2nd on the Saxon Service both in Yarmouth, and to cap it all both ships bounced off the quay in Yarmouth with the same problem, one of the rudders had fallen off, We discharged then went to the Kestrel drydock in Dundee, I left there to join a ship in Drypool shipyard in Hull, I thinkl they made a new rudder in the Caledon shipyard in Dundee.This is may be the wrong thread but I couldnt think of anywhere else, All the best George


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## Dickyboy

Farmer John said:


> Just forecasting Hurricane force 12 for sea area Fitzroy. Wouldn't want to be there.


Is this the one? (Jester)


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## george e mitchell

Reading the various posts regarding the Flower corvettes and the Castle frigates,reminded me of one of my favourite movies, which ive watched many times,
MADE APPROX 1953 when I was 15, Starred Jack Hawkins as Capt Erickson The movie was called The Cruel Sea, A masterpiece in my judgement
He joined his ship just built in 1941 She was a Flower class corvette named Compass Rose for the movie, There are many scenes of the vessel in HEAVY
seas crossing the Atlantic on convoy duty. in the movie she was sunk in 1944, Luckily movie style most of the crew were picked up from rafts, He then took command of a new Frigate called in the movie SALTASH CASTLE, Many of the scenes were filmed on the Murmansk convoys in heavy weather. If these ships are the same as described in earlier posts then they were pretty lively,
I'm just wondering how I can reel of all these names and dates of the 1950s and sometimes struggle to remember where I was last week.
The book was written by Nicholas Monsarrat Early 1950s. . Regards to all. George


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## spongebob

George, that brings back memories. The film The Cruel Sea was released in NZ in 1953, the second year of my apprentiship , and our group of apprentices , about eight in all , wagged night school to see the movie.
We had a special interest in that the RNZ Navy had two Bird Class mine sweepers , Tui and Kiwi, identical to Compass Rose and six Loch class Frigates that were similar though bigger than the Castle class Saltash Castle.

A few of us had already worked in the engine rooms and on the tail shafts of both types and our glib excuse to the Apprentice manager for skipping class was that the movie was part of our education. He wasn't impressed .

Bob


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## BobClay

Some interesting information about that film on the IMDB website.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0045659/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1


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## 5036

Dickyboy said:


> Is this the one? (Jester)


When I saw that small picture I wondered what you were selling Dickyboy!


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## 5036

holland25 said:


> The Flower class corvettes were used for the original WX ships but they were eventually retired, and by the time I was talking about they had been replaced by Castle class corvettes which were eventually re rated as frigates.


It's a small world. Just after reading your reply I was talking to the night watchman at our local marina and it turns out he was on Weather Reporter and Admiral Fitzroy. He described being caught by a 33 metre high wave, he was in his bunk in the early hours of the morning and the ship was totally buried. He jumped out of his bunk into seawater which had come in through the ventilation system. He did not say how the wave height was recorded but I have no doubt such monsters exist.
He also described going from three man to single cabins after Fitzroys conversion in Manchester due to decreased manning requirements. He loved rough weather and described being on the wheel descendinhg into deep dark troughs and then coming onto a crest with clear blue skies.


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## John Jarman

My very first sea trip, in 1948, involved crossing the BofB. The weather was so bad with westerly winds, that I remember the saloon being flooded to about 6". Almost up to the top of my sea boots (wellies)!!.......................I was 4yo at the time aboard the SS Spero. My dad was skipper and my mother and I went on the trip from the Tyne to Bilbao. It was my dad's last trip on the Spero as he was getting his licence for Thames Pilot.

As for heavy weather, only a couple of weeks ago, MrsJJ and I went on a Cruise taking in many ports in Norway. We obviously had the remnants of the Atlantic storms as the weather caused a lot of sea sickness aboard and the stop at Trondheim had to be abandoned altogether 'for safety reasons'. I usually quite like it during such conditions but on this ship (Magellan), the ship seemed to take on a permanent starboard list that lasted until our return from Bergen, (our last port of call), to Tilbury.

JJ.


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## DAR

One of my many rough crossings of the Bay from Bilbao to NWE in a small LPG Tanker.

https://youtu.be/HGTnRsjDMlM


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