# Cruise woman's body is recovered (BBC News)



## SN NewsCaster (Mar 5, 2007)

*Cruise woman's body is recovered (BBC News) - Merged threads*

The body of a cruise ship passenger is discovered in the sea near Southampton.

More from BBC News...


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## non descript (Nov 18, 2005)

How very very sad for everyone involved.


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## Pompeyfan (Aug 9, 2005)

Just got back from Oceana.

I will open a thread in Mess Deck about the cruise later, and indeed this sad ending after I have had a kip.

The lady who fell overboard was on the same deck as me, A Deck and only a few cabins along. They are all balconies.

We heard about it when at breakfast and were asked to return to our cabins.

David


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## SN NewsCaster (Mar 5, 2007)

*Tests start on cruise ship body (BBC News)*

A post-mortem examination begins on the body of a cruise liner passenger found in the sea.

More from BBC News...


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## Pompeyfan (Aug 9, 2005)

As I have always said, having performed so many myself the autopsy will give a few vital clues as to what happened, and may even solve the mystery. However, I have a feeling they may never know what really happened with only the cause of death as the only thing they should know for certain. And they will know if she was dead before she hit the water which could provide a few more clues.

However, this is even more upsetting for my son and myself because we may have known the lady and indeed her husband. They were only a few cabins away from us, and we often walked along the alleyway past their cabin instead of going another way often speaking to people along that way. But on that morning we went the other way.

Our thoughts go out to her family.

I am still writing my report on this cruise which I should finish some time today.

David


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## SeaStoryWriter (Dec 31, 2006)

Those outside balconies scare the s*** out of me. Pretty easy to go over, and so many of those aboard really aren't sailors and don't have sea legs. One slight unexpected roll and....my heart goes out to her survivors. You go on a cruise to have fun, not lose a loved one.


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## Pompeyfan (Aug 9, 2005)

Hi SeaStoryWriter

We had a balcony on the same deck as the lady who died. I have never had one before, and was a little sceptical. My sister is scared to death of them and would not go out there. She felt too cramped between the large sliding door of the cabin and the railings fearing she may fall in the sea.

However, when I went out there, I did not feel that way at all and could not see what she was so worried about. They are perfectly safe, and would roccomend them to anybody despite this incident. 

I am 5ft 9in and the railing was up to my chest. It would be impossible to accidentially fall over the railing, even if listing heavily. She would have to go over one helluva way for that to happen. And if she rolled that badly, the entire ship would be in danger?!.

On the balcony were two easy chairs and a small table. The easy chairs are normal size placed at each end of the balcony with the table in the middle, and plenty of room to negotiate around despite my sister thinking they were cramped. The table was not much bigger than a stool. It would be possible to stand on it, but even then at my height, falling over the rail would not be that easy. If rolling badly may be, but I doubt it. However, it could be possible I suppose that the lady was standing on this table, but the ship was not listing. The sea was calm. And why stand on it unless to get a better view but it was barely light then. In fact when we passed Cowes, it was dark. Her balcony was on the starboard side. 

Even if she went out onto the balcony and tripped over the small table, she still could not have fallen overboard. 

I don't know the measurements of the balcony but at a rough guess I would say they are around 3ft x 6ft. In the brochure, our cabin with balcony was 178 square feet. The baclony is the width of this cabin.

Results of the autopsy showed that she died of injuries consistent with falling 80ft assuming that it that she fell from her balcony. Our balconies on A deck were the heighest with a passenger deck above us.

I said in an earlier post that they would know if she was dead before she hit the water. Members will notice I did not mention drowning, and neither does the intital cause of death. If a person is dead before they go into the water, or dies on impact, we see different signs and do not give the cause as drowning. I could always demonstrate this to students as to why the cause of death was not drowning alone despite possibly seeming that way to the unqualified eye. I won't say how we know for obvious reasons which is why my job including the forensic stuff was so interesting.

We now know the cause of death, but not how it happened. More information may come to light, but it could remain a mystery.

However, I think it almost impossible to fall overboard accidentially especially taken the sea conditions into consideration and the design of the balcony, but I guess we will never know.

David


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## SeaStoryWriter (Dec 31, 2006)

Still concerned, I've seen brochures showing railings not that high according to how the people were posed, so it sounds as if you were on a ship of better design, although I'm a bit taller, so if it hit you in the chest at 5'9", it would be just about my waist level. Seems as if the tox may tell all, and those things are private enough to get rid of of an "unloved" loved one in the dark of night. Sad no matter how you slice it-people cruise for fun (booze and gambling), they don't go to come home in mourning black. WILL


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## Pompeyfan (Aug 9, 2005)

My son is 6ft and the railing was up to his chest. This is very approximate measurements as to what part of the chest it comes up to on each of us. But the bottom line is that there is no way in a million years that a six foot and 5ft 9 man could accidentially fall over those railings. And working at sea, had my own deck(Hospital Deck)on two ships the height of these railings seemed no different. 

I remember going back to my hospital on Arcadia in 1973 when we were in a force 12 gale. I had to walk along a narrow passenger deck to my hospital. I was carrying my breakfast on a tray to eat in my cabin. To get to my hospital/deck I had to open a heavy door. So I rested my tray on the railing which I reckon was the same or similar height to the balcony rail on Oceana. The ship rolled heavily to starboard and my breakfast slid into the sea, but I held onto the tray. At no stage did I feel I may go overboard along with my breakfast being so close to the railing. I was just a mad as a snake having to go back for more!. The deck below me, D deck was under water which if course is a different matter. And of course Arcadia was 29,000 tons, not 77,000. For those who prefer actual tonnage, I have just used round figures off the top of my head!.

The bottom line is that as a former seaman, I do not think that anybody could accidentially fall over the side on any ship, not even when drunk unless of course in very rough conditions on smaller cargo or fishing vessels for example when working in such extreme conditions on deck. Yes, of course it can happen then and sadly does if not wearing safety equipment etc. But not on a large cruise ship. The only way this could be possible is if they stood on something or even worse if they sat on the railing, or of course climbed the railing. However, at normal height you would either have to be very tall, and also very clumsy!. And I repeat, the conditions when the lady fell into the sea was calm, and no list.

Perhaps Fred could help here because I would think that all railings on all ships including balconies are the same height.

We called it going over the wall when I was at sea. I remember a few people doing that, but not by accident. But that is another story.

For all those reading this and thinking of going on a cruise, please don't be put off by the story of this poor lady. These balconies and ships railings are perfectly safe. But remember, like anything in life it is down to common sense. Don't climb the railings or sit on them or stand on something to get a better view. And in a heavy sea when the ship is rolling badly, again use common sense. But even then, if only standing on the deck the ship would have to list very badly indeed for anybody of any height to fall over the wall.

David


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## graham (Apr 15, 2005)

i was on the oceana last 2 weeks in may and had a balcony cabin no chance of going over accidentially unless you stand on the small table or one of the chairs regards graham


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## SeaStoryWriter (Dec 31, 2006)

I'll bow to your wisdom. My experience was on a commercial fishing boat. My great uncle (A USN vet-WWII) was the skipper. Heck, he made you want to jump! Still, leaves quite a few questions doesn't it-hopefully time will tell. Greetings from sunny CA. WILL


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## Pompeyfan (Aug 9, 2005)

Not too sunny here WILL.

When we were in Zeebrugge aboard Oceana, it rained all morning.

I don't think we will ever know exactly what happened. My son is still shocked simply because the lady was aboard the same ship, and same deck. He cannot get his head around the fact that she fell 80 feet to her death.

A truly terrible way to end ones life. It certainly took the shine off two great days aboard the ship and I am sure other passengers felt the same. We cannot imagine how her husband must be feeling.

David


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