# Scuttling Of Ships



## Kaiser Bill (Jun 28, 2006)

Why, during WW2, did the Germans have a propensity to scuttle their ships ? Were any Allied ships ever scuttled by their crews ?


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## stores (Apr 8, 2007)

*Scuttling Ships*

Most German Ships Were Scuttled When Cornered By The Royal Navy, A Few Were Salved, Not Heard Of A British Ship That Scuttled Herself To Evade Capture. Does Not Mean It Did Not Happen. Many Old And Damaged Ships Were Scuttled At Normandy, To Form A Breakwater.


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## Hugh Ferguson (Sep 4, 2006)

Captain Neville Riley of the Brisbane Star (Pedestal Convoy) had a deputation from some of the crew that, rather than leave French Vichy territorial waters, they would like him to scuttle the ship: he declined to do so and made it to Malta without more damage to his ship!


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## Scelerat (Sep 18, 2012)

I recently taught a girl in my bottom set of Year 8, named Lang. She told me that her great-grandfather had scuttled his ship in "one of the world wars". I expressed interest and she told me that her family was originally German, and that her grandfather had changed his surname. I was intrigued, and by next lesson I had looked up a photo of Hans Langsdorff of the "Graf Spee". At the end of the lesson I showed it to her, just the picture, no caption. She responded, "yes that's him, we've got that picture on the wall at home", and off she went.


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## LouisB (Dec 23, 2007)

Scelerat said:


> I recently taught a girl in my bottom set of Year 8, named Lang. She told me that her great-grandfather had scuttled his ship in "one of the world wars". I expressed interest and she told me that her family was originally German, and that her grandfather had changed his surname. I was intrigued, and by next lesson I had looked up a photo of Hans Langsdorff of the "Graf Spee". At the end of the lesson I showed it to her, just the picture, no caption. She responded, "yes that's him, we've got that picture on the wall at home", and off she went.


If the girl was correct and hadn't misunderstood what she was told, then that is an absolutely amazing coincidence and one that would be nice to follow up. The family may however think differently.....nevertheless?

LouisB. (Scribe)


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## sparkie2182 (May 12, 2007)

I would be more than pleased if Langsdorff was my great-grandfather.


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## chadburn (Jun 2, 2008)

I think I would rather have Guy Gibson as my Grandfather then I may be able to cadge a flight on one of the two flying Lancasters or even both as a surviving relative!


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## stan mayes (Jul 22, 2006)

I sailed in the captured German tanker Biscaya renamed Empire Unity.
On 19th October she was seen in Denmark Strait by Armed Merchant Cruiser Scotstoun...Biscaya's Chief Engineer asked permission to scuttle the ship but the Master refused as they risked gunfire from the AMC and also pointed out that she would probably stay afloat on the buoyancy of her empty tanks..
On her next trip after I paid off Empire Unity she was torpedoed near Iceland by U 979 and damaged..She was taken in tow to Scapa Flow.
Stan


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## stan mayes (Jul 22, 2006)

stan mayes said:


> I sailed in the captured German tanker Biscaya renamed Empire Unity.
> On 19th October she was seen in Denmark Strait by Armed Merchant Cruiser Scotstoun...Biscaya's Chief Engineer asked permission to scuttle the ship but the Master refused as they risked gunfire from the AMC and also pointed out that she would probably stay afloat on the buoyancy of her empty tanks..
> On her next trip after I paid off Empire Unity she was torpedoed near Iceland by U 979 and damaged..She was taken in tow to Scapa Flow.
> Stan


I forgot to add dates..Biscaya was captured on 19th october 1939.
My time in her as Empire Unity was 14th Nov 1944 to 29th Feb 1945..Managed by Hunting & Sons Newcastle.
Captain Friskney and his brother was 3rd officer in the ship.
Stan


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## vectiscol (Oct 14, 2006)

The Vichy French fleet was scuttled at Toulon in November, 1942 in order to prevent the ships being seized by the Germans, and probably transferred to the Italian Navy.

One 'technical' scuttling by the Royal Navy was HMS York, which was run aground to prevent her sinking after being attacked and damaged by Italian explosive motor boats at Suda Bay in 1941. When Crete was subsequently evacuated, the main armament of the cruiser was effectively destroyed by demolition charges to render her useless to the invading Germans.


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## Leratty (Jun 3, 2012)

Chadburn post 7, is that correct that if you were a relative of someone akin GG you could-might get a flight on one of the two Lancasters, now that would be something? Can hear the noise now as she belts down the runway. In the Aus war museum in Canberra as well as the Auckland NZ one there are WW2 bombers, unfortunately I am not sure from memory which type.

In regards Capt. Langsdorff, I have been to his grave in B.A., I wonder how his relatives came to live in UK even if changing their name? Why would they do that he was not a Nazi, would have thought with exception of Mr. Hitler he was respected by the German navy as well as the RN? Certainly an interesting but strange coincidence. 

There was a U-boat that attempted scuttling but was prevented. It was commissioned into the RN & I think called HMS Seraph? There was a book written on her in the late 50's, can not recall the name. Had quite an interesting period with the RN she did a few clandestine ops. Wonder what the crew thought serving in a U boat?


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## trotterdotpom (Apr 29, 2005)

Kaiser Bill said:


> Why, during WW2, did the Germans a propensity to scuttle their ships ? Were any Allied ships ever scuttled by their crews ?


Presumably so that they couldn't be used by their enemies - as some captured ships were.

See also Operation Regenbogen ... About 200 U Boats scuttled just prior to the German surrender in 1945 (orders of Admiral Donitz).

John T


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## Leratty (Jun 3, 2012)

Correction the U-boats RN name was HMS Graph.


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## chadburn (Jun 2, 2008)

Leratty, for various reasons civilians can get a flight on the BoB Lancaster (as long as they sign a Blood Chit) and I believe the same applies to the Canadian Mk X. There is a non flying Lancaster in a Museum in Australia and possibly a Lancaster which has private Owners here in England could be flying next year, all being well. Money and a Donation is the key to gaining a flight in most Warbirds these days especially in the USA.
As far as Langsdorf and the family name there seems to be a split in how British people felt about the Germans after the War and I can remember the furore in the 1950's when we gave/donated/sold some RN vessels to the "new" German Navy only for the Germans to name them after some of their wartime vessels.


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## Scatari (May 19, 2012)

chadburn said:


> Leratty, for various reasons *civilians can **get a flight* on the BoB Lancaster (as long as they sign a Blood Chit) and *I believe the same applies to the Canadian Mk X*.


Flights are available in several of the vintage aircraft owned by the Canadian Warplane Heritage Museum ... in the case of the Lancaster, a mere $2500 will buy you a one hour flight!

Other prices at the link:

http://www.warplane.com/visit-cwhm/vintage-aircraft-flights.aspx


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## Scelerat (Sep 18, 2012)

Leratty said:


> In regards Capt. Langsdorff, I have been to his grave in B.A., I wonder how his relatives came to live in UK even if changing their name? Why would they do that he was not a Nazi, would have thought with exception of Mr. Hitler he was respected by the German navy as well as the RN? Certainly an interesting but strange coincidence.


Beyond my ability to find out now, as I don't work there any more. However, the girl's parents never attended parents' evening, and appeared unresponsive to any attempts at contact by the school for other reasons, so I doubt if I could have found any more out anyway.


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## Leratty (Jun 3, 2012)

Chadburn thanks for that info appreciated.
Apropos your comment as to Langsdorff & possible local feelings, interestingly my father was RN during the war, a U-boat they sank near the end all but one of the survivors was saved by the ship. He became after the war pretty friendly with the commander, even had his binoculars & pistol in his study which my brother still has. He, the commander would come to my brother & my's school to visit us in the mid 50-late 50's bringing sweets along with other goodies & taking us on exertions. I recall him as very kind along with understanding as to our dislike for boarding school + being 1000's of miles from home all year. We also went to his home in Germany on holidays for a week or so once or twice as he had two sons about five years older than us. Have to say it caused a stir at school most boys were envious & not just of the sweets. 
He & dad dis some business together over the years too. When my father died we had left school & I was at sea sadly we lost touch with him though never communicated with the sons, not sure why.


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## chadburn (Jun 2, 2008)

In reference to the vessels transfer it happened in the mid 1950's, if you look at HMS Sparrow in today's photo section you will see that I have put a list of some of the other vessel's that were transferred over including one which the Germans named "Graf Spee" in 1958 which is possibly? why the family may have wanted to change their name. People then and now feel differently about WW2 Germans depending on how their own time during the War went. Patrick Moore the stargazer and former RAF Aircrew said until his dying day "The only good German was a dead one"


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## Varley (Oct 1, 2006)

Not quite all, there was one, certainly, that did good while still breathing - Blucher!


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## Leratty (Jun 3, 2012)

Schelerat, it is a sad day when parents do not take advantage of those occasions if only for the children's sake. As to non responsive to school missives that too is sad, maybe they were 'once burnt twice shy?'
When at school & uni we had Japanese as well as German parties there with us. Have to say we were in the main not too kind to them, particularly the Japanese. I recall one friend, a huge Hebrides Islander, who when the old 50's B/W British WW2 movies used to come on, Bridge Over The River Kwai etc he would grab them & make them sit & watch, or they would be forced to come to the movie with us. Must have been quite intermediating, yet to us immature, ignorant, cretins at the time we thought funny. I have often thought since then what if any angst they may still have towards us from those days?


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