# Union Calls for MCA probe of foreign crew conditions onboard Waverley



## James_C (Feb 17, 2005)

Found this in my copy of the Nautilus (formerly NUMAST) Telegraph which dropped through the door today. It hasn't appeared on the union website yet.

"Union Calls for MCA probe of foreign crew conditions onboard Waverley"

Nautilus UK has urged the Maritime & Coastguard Agency to investigate the conditions of foreign crew employed on the passenger excursion vessel Waverley.
The Union asked the Agency to step in after raising concerns that a contract covering a Latvian seafarer working on the historic vessel failed to meet UK employment standards.
Assistant general secretary Mark Dickinson said he considered foreign crew on the ship should be covered by the UK National Minimum Wage - currently £5.52 per hour for an adult.
However, under the contract obtained by the Union it would appear that the hourly rate was £4.50 for a seven-day week, working 84 hours a week and no overtime.
Mr Dickinson said the contract made no mention of paid annual leave of four weeks, and it was unacceptable that the owners had sought to make the Latvian seafarer pay her own repatriation and that of her replacement.
The Union has asked the MCA to inspect the Waverley and Balmoral to check that they are operating to the required standard, and to ensure that all crew contracts are in compliance with UK regulations.


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## John N MacDonald (Apr 1, 2008)

I'm sure anyone that has given any sort of donation to the Waverly will not be happy they are employing foreign besides treating them nearly as slave labour(MAD)


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## Pompeyfan (Aug 9, 2005)

When I was aboard her last year the chap in the shop, and a number of other jobs was from Poland I think. 

David


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## captainchris (Oct 29, 2006)

I heard last year that both vessels were employing Eastern Europeans, and this made me think that with quite a number of UK seafarers, especially in the Bristol area for Balmoral, who would quite willingly work the summer period, why can't they employ locals?

Best regards,

Chris


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## StewartM (Jun 29, 2005)

I was under the impression they had trouble getting enough locals who would work for them.


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## JimC (Nov 8, 2007)

When I was an HM in the west of Scotland, Waverley used to dock very wek during the summer. She paid token harbour dues as she was a charity but boy! could they charge for short hour and a half trip. It was extortionate. I saw a young mother leading her two weeping children away from the gangway. She could not afford to pay the fare for both her kids - only one of them so she cancelled the trip.


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## Chouan (Apr 20, 2006)

Well, I'm astonished! A British shipowner exploiting their crew! Whatever next!?


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## Chouan (Apr 20, 2006)

StewartM said:


> I was under the impression they had trouble getting enough locals who would work for them.


Hardly surprising on illegal wages! Oh, but of course, the minimum wage doesn't apply to seafarers.


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## Chouan (Apr 20, 2006)

I've asked the people who run the Waverley about this. I won't hold my breath waiting for a reply.....


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## Binnacle (Jul 22, 2005)

*Waverley - Shame on Scotland*

Good on you Chouan. If this information is correct it is disgraceful and unacceptable behaviour. I hope the media latch on to this and expose this exploitation of the crew. Some charity.


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## Dave Wilson (Feb 6, 2008)

What do you expect from the MCA? This organisation is responsible for turning the British Flag into the FOC that it is today.
MCA involvement is akin to giving Dracula the keys to the Blood Bank!


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## Chouan (Apr 20, 2006)

So having the Waverley's crew working for below the minimum wage is ok then?


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## billyboy (Jul 6, 2005)

Why not ask one of her Captains? ... "Agentroadrunner" is a member of this siter and serves on the Waverley and the Balmoral. Over to you Andy!


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## Chouan (Apr 20, 2006)

billyboy said:


> Why not ask one of her Captains? ... "Agentroadrunner" is a member of this siter and serves on the Waverley and the Balmoral. Over to you Andy!


Has anybody asked him? I didn't start the thread and wouldn't want to step on any toes, but if nobody else is willing to I will ......


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## John Cassels (Sep 29, 2005)

Dave Wilson said:


> What do you expect from the MCA? This organisation is responsible for turning the British Flag into the FOC that it is today.
> MCA involvement is akin to giving Dracula the keys to the Blood Bank!


I must be missing something here . The MCA has been lambasted frequently
by many members of this site and yet it still appears to function as if
imune to all critisism.
Can someone please explain how this magical orginisation can still operate
despite the various negative remarks. 
How were they responsible for turning the British FLag into the FOC ?.
After all ,the MCA are the ones who said my 1973 Masters FG was no longer
valid >


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## Geoff_E (Nov 24, 2006)

John Cassels said:


> After all ,the MCA are the ones who said my 1973 Masters FG was no longer
> valid >


You might just have answered your own question there John.


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## benjidog (Oct 27, 2005)

Regarding the posts mentioning Agentroadrunner:

It is not reasonable to put a member of this site on the spot and expect him to respond here. This is not a kangaroo court!

Please desist in this line or the thread will have to be closed.

Brian


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## Pat McCardle (Jun 12, 2005)

Hear, Hear.


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## billyboy (Jul 6, 2005)

My Apologies Brian. Just thought that Andy may wish to comment on what has been speculated.
After all he is on the scene and could tell us first hand.
I withdraw my comments now as I can see taht I was totaly out of order there.
Apologies again
Billyboy


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## Chouan (Apr 20, 2006)

I would have asked via PM, not publicy. It is, afterall, not his responsibility.


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## Derek Dunn (Nov 4, 2007)

*Low wages*

How about CalMac? Icrossed over to Mull last year and the shop staff were Latvians?


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## John Cassels (Sep 29, 2005)

kelvinman said:


> How about CalMac? Icrossed over to Mull last year and the shop staff were Latvians?


Sounds difficult to believe but we must accept what you say. How is this
posible............. Calmac of all people. No one can tell me that there were
no locals available. 
KEVIN , any feedback ?.


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## John N MacDonald (Apr 1, 2008)

I was speaking to a Calmac Chief Steward who confirmed that they had a Portugese Steward on the ship for a while last year or the year before.
There are still plenty of young folk who'd work with Calmac if they were given the right encouragement. Conditions are good for the crews working 2 weeks on 2 off and if Iremember rightly twice a year they have 3 weeks off.
Could it be that they are not training catering crew?
I was a bit mad when I saw the post about the Waverley but blew even more steam on hearing the possibility that Calmac were going down that route!(Cloud) (MAD)


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## Peter Wearing (Aug 31, 2005)

Why are we surprised about foreign crew on ferries? i know this thread started about the Waverly, but just for info' Norfolk Line in Dover are employing large numbers of Portuguese stewards on board, get away with it because of the EEC bit, not right but there you go.


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## McCloggie (Apr 19, 2008)

I do not know enough about the regulations but it should be noted that all the foreign crew that have been mentioned so far seem to from member EU states. 

If that is the case then it is hard to see which laws are being broken - apart from the minimum eage.

We may not like it but if the EU rules apply here then you are in the same situation as the football organisations who may want to limit foreign players in clubs but can not stop Europeans working in any country they choose to.

The joys of an integrated Europe I am sorry to say!

McC


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## Chouan (Apr 20, 2006)

Irish Ferries replaced all of their crews from top to bottom with Latvians, I think, a couple of years ago. It caused a big stink in Ireland at the time, but they still did it. The issue with the Waverley is, I think, a British registered charity employing Latvians and paying below the legal minimum wage. Hypocrisy at its best.
PS. They didn't reply to my enquiry, as you all knew they wouldn't. I'll try by phone tomorrow.


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## James T Floyd (Jun 13, 2008)

I recently travelled on the 'Ulysses' and 'Jonathan Swift' and would advise that the Master, Chief Engineer & Purser were of Irish, British extraction. Rest of the crew performed very well. Invited to the Bridge on 'Ulysses' and was much impressed. I thought the crew were Polish.


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## Chouan (Apr 20, 2006)

They must have made a change since last year then, because on the "Swift" the Old Man was very definitely eastern european.


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## benjidog (Oct 27, 2005)

The first point to consider here is whether it is legal to pay people less than the National Minimum Wage. 

This web page gives some legal background:

http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdot...RCES&itemId=1074403806&r.l2=1073876962&r.s=sc

I am sure there is room for interpretation but there are exemptions:

_The UK minimum wage is not applicable to certain groups, including:_

_the genuinely self-employed_
_voluntary workers_
_workers who are based permanently outside the UK or who are based in the Channel Islands or the Isle of Man_
So if this is true the workers from other countries are not protected and can be offered (and may choose to accept) payment less than the minimum wage. The consequence being that, if an employer is driven by a need to reduce costs, or just plain greedy, a foreign worker has a better chance of employment than a local as s/he can accept a rate that undercuts the minimum wage whereas the local can't be offered a lower rate.

My conclusion is that the situation described is probably perfectly legal, though some of us might believe it to be reprehensible.

This may also explain why most of the people working in hotels and restaurants in the London area are from these countries.

But please don't blame the Latvians, Poles etc. - they are just trying to make a living the same as the rest of us.

Brian


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## Chouan (Apr 20, 2006)

I'm certainly not blaming the Latvians etc. I just find it scandalous that a charity based in the UK is behaving less than charitably towards its employees. 
I'd already noted that the minimum wage doesn't apply in the case of the Waverley in any legal sense.


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## JimC (Nov 8, 2007)

benjidog said:


> The first point to consider here is whether it is legal to pay people less than the National Minimum Wage.
> 
> This web page gives some legal background:
> 
> ...


Some simple enquiry will find that lots of fishing boat owner/skippers hire eastern european crews who live on board to save money. This has been going on for at least three years that I know of. In many cases it was nothing to do with 'cheap labour' but more to do with scarcity of labour combined with the attitudes of local lads who did not want to follow in father's footsteps. As for the 'cheap labour' label - who could blame them? Prices paid to skippers for a catch of prawns for instance - up until two years ago- had changed little over the previous 20 years. Not so the prices paid by consumers who have to pay big bucks' to fishmongers, supermarkets or flash restaurant owners! (the very people who employ most of the 'cheap labour!). These fishermen are seamen as well but they did not seem to have anyone fighting their corner for them. 
I don't hear anyone stating that they are willing to pay the extra cost of a service or commodity that complying with the minimum wage inevitably brings - only moans about ever increasing prices. Minimum wage philosophy only works in tandem with resale price maintenance and that went out the window years ago. It's a noble concept to vigorously oppose Dickensian wage strategies but a different 'ball-game' facing-up to what such opposition brings. 'Cake and eat it' comes to mind. The natural process of wealth creation is a continuous one. Heaven help the world when the masses of India and China decide to create a minimum wage strategy. However, who herein can deny them such 'progress'? (Smoke)


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## vchiu (Mar 28, 2006)

Had I been a few years younger with no family to support, I would have welcomed a low-paid job on the Waverley for summer vacations for instance. As a ship enthusiast I would have been very happy to contribute to the preservation of an outstanding piece of Engineering.

One could argue that by working voluntarily, I would pose an unfair competition against fully fledged British crew/employee. But I really think preservation societies must receive some support for the job they do and keep their financials healthy otherwise they can go bust very easily.
I would personally not call those structures charities but rather non profit organization, as I associate the word "charity" much with a state of mind regretfully not much compatible with today's business demands.


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## LEEJ (Mar 25, 2006)

A good test would be to know what the charity administrator is earning.The usual arguement is that they have to be highly paid to retain the best people.I dont know what the case is here but I would be surprised if the top dogs arnt on top wages.

LeeJ


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