# Looking for images of a Victory ship & a T2 tanker



## Shipbuilder (Jun 30, 2005)

The title says it all (or most of it). I am looking for these for my next book, but in order to keep out of copyright trouble I am looking for images of these two types of ship that you took yourself and would be happy to give me permission to use. High Resolution jpegs woule be fine, sent by e-mail (about 500kb is normally OK).

As long as the ships no longer exist, it does not matter which ones they are. Don't particularly want any of the preserved vessels of which there are thousands of pictures about. 

Can be colour or B & W. 

I have images of Liberties, also C1 C2 & C3 types that I took myself. Just lacking a Victory and a T2.

Bob


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## stores (Apr 8, 2007)

*re victory and t2 types*

there are hundreds on photoship. all can be downloaded.(Scribe)


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## Shipbuilder (Jun 30, 2005)

Hi Stores,
I know about Photoship thanks. The problem is that not a single one of them gives the copyright holder's name. That is why I asked for photographs where the copyright is known and the owner is happy to give me permission to use the images.
Bob


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## Mike Hemmington (Jan 22, 2012)

Hi Bob,
If you can get a photograph of "Esso Glasgow" she was a T2, I served on her as 4th Eng 1969.
Regards
Mike


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## Shipbuilder (Jun 30, 2005)

I am now coming to the end of that chapter, but it seems no-one has any photos that I can use, so will just have to describe them, as I have plans of both a Victory and a T2. I do have lots of photographs as well, but have no idea who took them!
Bob


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## stores (Apr 8, 2007)

*re photos*

cant u use them and state copyright unknown, if over 50 years old i think most copyright is expired. ?(Scribe)


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## stores (Apr 8, 2007)

*re photos*

someone on here published a book called LIFE ABOARD A LIBERTY SHIP, maybe have a word with him for advice ? (Scribe) his name is Ian M. senior member.


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## Shipbuilder (Jun 30, 2005)

They have now extended the copyright term from 50 years to 70 years from the death of the creator of the work. Usually very difficult or impossible to determine anyway. One can take a chance and probably no-pne would say anything. But I like to exhaust all other avenues first. I took some photographs myself years ago of what I thought were a Victory & a T2, but when I look them up, they were built in the early 1950s - not sure when they stopped building these two classes of ship. 
Bob


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## stores (Apr 8, 2007)

*first victory ship*

hi first victory was built feb 1944, 68 years ago. (Scribe)


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## stores (Apr 8, 2007)

*T2*

T2 Type T2sea1 First Built 1940


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## Shipbuilder (Jun 30, 2005)

Thanks,
I suppose it depends on when they stopped building them. Here are the two I took. The JOHN TYLER was taken a Hosuton in 1977 and at the time, I thought it was a WWII standard, possibly a Victory, but I really don't think so on closer inspection and she was built long after the war finished! The tanker is the SABINE, taken about the same time. I also though she had a look of a WWII standard, but now I don't think so - bow not sharp enough and also built after the war.
Bob


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## stores (Apr 8, 2007)

*sabine*

there was 2 Sabines i a t2 one a t3


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## stores (Apr 8, 2007)

*victory ships*

John Tyler Is C4s1a Class


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## Shipbuilder (Jun 30, 2005)

Thanks - I live and learn - I never knew they did a C4. Assume they came after the war.

I have no idea which SABINE my picture is. I took it in 1977, probably in Houston or Philadelphia, but more likely to have been Houston.

Bob


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## stores (Apr 8, 2007)

*Photos*

Would suggest you contact the member who wrote life aboard a wartime liberty ship, he gave me lots of advice, i was thinking of publishing a book , a photo history of WATTS WATTS SHIPS, found him most helpful, regards, STORES.(Scribe)


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## Shipbuilder (Jun 30, 2005)

It is really only the photographs I need. My book is not esecially about WWII, but covers 1939 to 1999 and the war era in it is more on types of ship than life aboard during the war as I didn't go to sea until early 1961. The remainder of the chapters have largely been written and I have most of the photographs for them. I had been putting the 1939 - 1949 section off for some time as I couldn't decide what angle to take, but it is shaping up now. My first ship was a C3, and that decided me on ship technicalities rather than the war itself. I do have an "exploded drawing" of a Victory ship, with permission to use. 
Production of the book itself is no problem as I brought one out in December, all done over the internet and the printer made a very fine job of it for a very reasonable price and I got bitten by the "writing" bug. 
Bob


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## stores (Apr 8, 2007)

*Esso Glasgow*

(Scribe)Found these on Photoship


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## stores (Apr 8, 2007)

*re jon tyler*

she was completed 15/08/52(Scribe)


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## Shipbuilder (Jun 30, 2005)

Thanks,

But as I said, the Photoship photographs give no indication of who is the copyright owner! I only want to use photographs that either I took myself, or I have obtained permission to use!

Anyway, the old grey cells began working a bit faster today and I dredged up from my mind taking a picture of a vessel called the MERRIMAC in Durban in 1972 and my memory suggested it had a look of a T2.

I found the negative and scanned it and here it is. I have now confirmed that this ship was a T2, completed as PHANTOM HILL in 1945.

A pity that by the time I took the photograph, she appears to have been converted into a general cargo ship, but the general outline is more-or-less the same, so I suppose this will have to suffice.
Bob


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## kewl dude (Jun 1, 2008)

Merrimac was a jumboized T2 converted to a bulk carrier owned by Oriental Exporters/Ogden Marine. I sailed a sister ship Columbia 2 A/E August 14, 1968 to May 18, 1969. I attach two Columbia pictures I found online in 2010 and have no idea who took the pictures.

You can easily see in the light ship picture that the main deck has been raised, what used to be the poop is now the main deck and back aft the engineers quarters were enlarged out to the skin eliminating the original exterior walkways on both sides. They also were lengthened with a new construction mid body.

Ogden Corporation owned Oriental Exporters then later changed to Ogden Marine. These ships were on the bartering coal run, loading in Philadelphia or Norfolk for Amsterdam or Antwerp. 

Prior to the John Kennedy administration the US paid US currency for electricity for European US military bases. Kennedy figured it made more sense to employ Americans with that money and bartered US low sulfur coal with European electric utilities.

Greg Hayden


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## Shipbuilder (Jun 30, 2005)

Greg,
Thanks for that further info. I wasn't really sure if MERRIMAC was converted to general cargo or bulk carrier, but on that berth in Durban, it was usually general cargo.

At that time, I was in the habit of taking harbour cruises whilst we were in port and photographing everything that was there and the MERRIMAC stuck in my mind for some reason.

Bob


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## kewl dude (Jun 1, 2008)

I took these three Polaroid pictures of the TAO-65 USNS Pecos at Guantanamo – Gitmo -- Bay Naval Base oil pier while I was 1 A//E during the July 12, 1973 – April 4, 1974 I sailed her. The Pecos was an original T2, meaning never altered in any major way, although the Pecos was the only ship I sailed with a scoop main condenser cooling, sea water injection for use at sea.

Ooops I just noticed that I took the third one at Todds Tampa, Florida Shipyard. I bought my brand new Polaroid SX-70 at the Gitmo exchange the day I took those first two pictures. Later we went in for an overhaul at Todds.

Greg Hayden


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## Shipbuilder (Jun 30, 2005)

I eventually found a photo of VERGELEGEN (Safmarine) ex _Westbrook Victory_ in my own collection that takes care of the Victory ship, as well as obtaining an "exploded" drawing and key for a Victory class. As far as T2 tanker goes, I will have to use my own MERRIMAC photo and explain about the posts & derricks being added during conversion.

I am now moving on to the Oceans, Forts, Parks & Liberties, but I have a number of images to cover them. 

I found an internet photo allegedly of the after half of SAN ALBERTO (Eagle Oil) just before she sank whilst attempting to return home by going astern (Forward half had sunk following torpedo attack). I would have asked for permission to use the image, but I have the plans of SAN ALBERTO and they didn't match up at all with the sinking image, although I am pretty sure she was another Eagle Oiler - mast in wrong position!

Bob

Thanks for all the replies


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## Ian6 (Feb 1, 2006)

The 'give away' identification of an original T2 are the three large portholes or scuttles as bridge windows. I sailed on 6 'as built' T2's in the 1950's with Caltex but the odd photo I took is not of adequate quality for Shipbuilder's purpose.

However any ship that is described as a T2 and has bridge windows other than the 3 circular jobs either isn't or has been modified since original construction.
Ian


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