# PMG Special Certificate



## R651400 (Jun 18, 2005)

Just read on another thread of a member giving up (jacking in was the expression in my time) after failing the theory. 
In the 50's the Special was always available to those who only failed their theory and did not necessitate any need for a further exam. This was an option I would have taken as at least it meant "sparking" at sea on trawlers or tugs etc.
I've met two or three guys who did this and they all had various opinions on life with a Special ticket but one thing I have noticed was most deep-sea trawlers were a lot better kitted out radio-wise than anything I sailed with on Blue Flue.


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## cajef (Feb 8, 2012)

I did a couple of trips to Iceland doing shakedown sea trials on new stern trawlers, not my idea of life at sea they were welcome to it.

The R/O's on those had special tickets and I believe some managed to get jobs on the rigs with those tickets when the deep sea fisheries collapsed after the cod wars.


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## RayL (Apr 16, 2008)

In 1968, some 18 months after ending my sea career, I did a trip on a Grimsby trawler in the belief that it would keep my ticket alive and thus keep my options open. I was horribly seasick due to the 'small ship' motion so it was a terrible experience to have put myself through--and all for nothing too because I later learned that 16 days was not enough and you had to go for not less than a month.

The skipper took advantage of my inexperience and gave away the radio operator's cabin to a friend of his, so I had to make the tricky journey to the ship's extreme stern each time a watch period ended. Here my next-door companion was an antisocial drunken slob who went everywhere with a whisky glass poking out of his jacket top pocket.

Before we sailed, I discovered that it was an accepted fact that the Avo 8 was nicked by somebody and therefore had to be replaced by an inferior meter, which in turn would be expected to go missing and have to be replaced all over again.

I was on the bridge as we sailed back into Grimsby. By the time I reached my cabin to pack up and leave, I had evidently had thieves in there who had stolen some of my belongings and scarpered home.


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## expats (Mar 9, 2013)

RayL said:


> In 1968, some 18 months after ending my sea career, I did a trip on a Grimsby trawler in the belief that it would keep my ticket alive and thus keep my options open. I was horribly seasick due to the 'small ship' motion so it was a terrible experience to have put myself through--and all for nothing too because I later learned that 16 days was not enough and you had to go for not less than a month.
> 
> The skipper took advantage of my inexperience and gave away the radio operator's cabin to a friend of his, so I had to make the tricky journey to the ship's extreme stern each time a watch period ended. Here my next-door companion was an antisocial drunken slob who went everywhere with a whisky glass poking out of his jacket top pocket.
> 
> ...


Between 1972 and 74 I worked as a dock tech. at GY.....The only way I'd've sailed on an Iceland trip was if I'd been 'Shanghaied'


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## trotterdotpom (Apr 29, 2005)

expats said:


> Between 1972 and 74 I worked as a dock tech. at GY.....The only way I'd've sailed on an Iceland trip was if I'd been 'Shanghaied'


Shanghai is in China, Expats.

John T


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## beedeesea (Feb 28, 2006)

Was it the case that blokes who couldn't manage the theory opted for a Special Cert and life on the trawlers, or that blokes who just wanted to go on trawlers didn't bother with 2nd Class PMG?

Brian


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## cajef (Feb 8, 2012)

beedeesea said:


> Was it the case that blokes who couldn't manage the theory opted for a Special Cert and life on the trawlers, or that blokes who just wanted to go on trawlers didn't bother with 2nd Class PMG?
> 
> Brian


Well I knew one trawler RO in Fleetwood that started on trawlers with a special ticket for several years then went back to college and got a 2nd class PMG, went deep sea for four years but ended up coming back onto trawlers for many years, I reckon he was just a glutton for punishment.(EEK)


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## beedeesea (Feb 28, 2006)

Yes, Cajef, I reckon fishing would have to be in the blood to put up with those conditions.

Brian


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## RayL (Apr 16, 2008)

That single voyage I described was quite an eventful one, for we broke down off Iceland and had to be helped by a sister-trawler in the fleet. We used rockets to shoot ropes across to them and they towed us to the Faeroes. A special bolt was flown out to us and the engine was repaired.

Everyone on board was supposed to help gut the fish catch (a horrible stinky job), but to his credit the skipper excused me because the weather had roughened and my seasickness had returned. I was counting the seconds to return home.


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## R651400 (Jun 18, 2005)

Miranda/GULL not the place for you then RayL! There's a SN member who did a stint on her but can't think who Neville?


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## hawkey01 (Mar 15, 2006)

Malcolm,

Sorry cannot remember. However attached Ray's link to the Miranda.

http://www.shipsnostalgia.com/showthread.php?t=4261

Neville - Hawkey01


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## RayL (Apr 16, 2008)

My trawler was the Ross Kashmir, and I gather it later became Rainbow Warrior II.


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## expats (Mar 9, 2013)

trotterdotpom said:


> Shanghai is in China, Expats.
> 
> John T


Shanghaiing refers to the practice of kidnapping people to serve as sailors by coercive techniques such as trickery, intimidation, or violence


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## Varley (Oct 1, 2006)

Or an appealing personnel officer.

(See also pierhead jump)


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## trotterdotpom (Apr 29, 2005)

expats said:


> Shanghaiing refers to the practice of kidnapping people to serve as sailors by coercive techniques such as trickery, intimidation, or violence


Thanks for that.

John T


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## R651400 (Jun 18, 2005)

One of the guys I knew who did the trawler bit said he was always treated with suspicion by the crew as he was the skipper's go between to the Hull/Grimsby office.


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## trotterdotpom (Apr 29, 2005)

R651400 said:


> One of the guys I knew who did the trawler bit said he was always treated with suspicion by the crew as he was the skipper's go between to the Hull/Grimsby office.


To use your own turn of phrase: rubbish.

John T


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## R651400 (Jun 18, 2005)

Can only impart what I was told and the story was a lot worse in this particular case.. 
How about giving us your version if it polarises?


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## trotterdotpom (Apr 29, 2005)

R651400 said:


> Can only impart what I was told and the story was a lot worse in this particular case..
> How about giving us your version if it polarises?


Not sure what that means, but by coincidence my first ship was Ross Polaris and I sailed on about ten trawlers. I never felt as though I was under any suspicion ashore or afloat. I don't think the Deckies gave the owners a second thought, they just concentrated on making a living. Everyone knew how hardnosed the owners were but the Skipper and the crew had the same objective.

Maybe your informant was paranoid.

John T


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## R651400 (Jun 18, 2005)

On the contrary exact opposite in fact a GKA R/O but with your ten trawler experience who can refute.


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## trotterdotpom (Apr 29, 2005)

Well, not you, that's for sure.

John T


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## R651400 (Jun 18, 2005)

Just no answer to that.. 
That's for sure.. 
Now if you don't want to add anything of experience to the thread Special or otherwise.. AR VA


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## expats (Mar 9, 2013)

trotterdotpom said:


> Not sure what that means, but by coincidence my first ship was Ross Polaris and I sailed on about ten trawlers. I never felt as though I was under any suspicion ashore or afloat. I don't think the Deckies gave the owners a second thought, they just concentrated on making a living. Everyone knew how hardnosed the owners were but the Skipper and the crew had the same objective.
> 
> Maybe your informant was paranoid.
> 
> John T


I've probably 'been' on more trawlers than anyone else here; although, thankfully, never sailed on one....
There were more RO 'characters' on trawlers (although I'd prefer the word 'loonies') than anywhere else....
The RO on the 'xxxx xxxxxx' would always write "ALL OK" on his report, but then put on faults....I once visited her and found he'd unsoldered all the components from a transmitter valve base (I found them hidden in the desk drawer)
Sometimes the rest of the crew were little better...I was called to a ship to see to the TV which had 'fallen' from its fittings and had a broken 'window' and CRT...I got it off the ship and took it to our repair shop...At lunch I got a call from the technician to come and have look at 'my' TV. When I went to the workshop he handed me a bottle of HP sauce which he'd found inside the TV (clearly a shipboard critic disapproved of the channel/reception)...Much of the work was replacing loudspeakers torn off the walls, etc...


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## trotterdotpom (Apr 29, 2005)

I'm not supposed to comment further on this thread but .... What the hell?

I can't imagine what would possess an RO to sabotage his own equipment ... as you suggest, definitely only four electrodes in that pentode!

I have seen deckies wind the messroom clock back in an attempt to get a little more sleep before hauling time - pointless exercise since the Skipper and the Mate knew exactly what the time was. Maybe the smashed speakers were an extension of that behaviour.

The owners must have gone soft, I never saw a telly on a trawler ... but who hasn't been tempted to chuck a sauce bottle at the "box" once in a while.

John T

PS Re the Special ticket ... It was the same as 2nd Class but without the theory exams. I think the course lasted 9 months in Grimsby. Holders were only permitted to sail on vessels that were not compulsorily fitted with WT. I knew one bloke who got a Special and thought he could use it to get a Liberian 2nd Class. When he applied, they made him sit an exam and he failed it. Oh well, go straight to Iceland, do not pass go, do not collect 200 Kr.


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## Manchester (Feb 24, 2011)

PS Re the Special ticket ... It was the same as 2nd Class but without the theory exams. I think the course lasted 9 months in Grimsby. Holders were only permitted to sail on vessels that were not compulsorily fitted with WT. I knew one bloke who got a Special and thought he could use it to get a Liberian 2nd Class. When he applied, they made him sit an exam and he failed it. Oh well, go straight to Iceland, do not pass go, do not collect 200 Kr.[/QUOTE]

Ooops! I was Electronics Officer on "Othello" Great job but a bit disconcerting one time when having fixed the steering gear on one trawler when the skipper asked me to check with sparks as to why he could only use r/t on his tx. Found the morse key was completely seized up! Bit of WD40 or equivalent at the time got him back on air!!

Didn't realise he had a special ticket restricted to R/T only


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## Ron Stringer (Mar 15, 2005)

Manchester said:


> Didn't realise he had a special ticket restricted to R/T only


The 'Special' ticket was not restricted to R/T only - it was a combined ticket with W/T and R/T authorisation. The only difference from a 2nd Class PMG was that the holder had not passed the theory papers of that certificate and, in addition to operating R/T stations on vessels that were required to carry them, was also permitted to operate W/T stations which had been voluntarily fitted, i.e. fitted on vessels that were not required to do so by the carriage requirements of the Board of Trade and the SOLAS regulations. 

So, he could operate the W/T station on vessels not on international voyages, vessels on international voyages that were over 300 tons gross but under 1600 tons gross and a few other categories. Deep-sea trawlers and ocean-going tugs were the most common opportunities and when I was at Brooks Bar there were several there who had taken their 2nd-Class theory papers several times without success but had easily passed the practicals and morse tests. (A sort of equivalent to the professional 2nd Mate). They gained a 'Special' ticket and disappeared to the Humber to seek employment in the fishing industry and earn enough to go back to college for re-sit at some later date - sometimes much later, several years in some instances.


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## IAN M (Jan 17, 2009)

The Special Certificate was valid on all merchant ships during the War. The 1st R/O had to have at least a 2nd Class PMG, but almost all 2nd and 3rd R/Os had the Special which remained valid until the end of 1946.

A holder of a Special was certainly not restricted to R/T and I never was on a ship which had it. And only a written two-hour exam had to be passed to obtain a 2nd Class.

During the War, we all went to sea with Specials, as you had to put in six months' sea-time before you could sit for a 2nd Class PMG.


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## trotterdotpom (Apr 29, 2005)

Thanks for that post, Ian. I didn't know that. Presumably they were just churning out operators as fast as they could.

John T


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## alan ward (Jul 20, 2009)

I once got a taxi to Paragon Station and the driver told me he`d been a Skipper on trawlers but left because he couldn`t handle `the reptiles`he`d had to put up with.


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## david.hopcroft (Jun 29, 2005)

Ian - that solves a mystery. A former colleague at GKZ had an AC ticket but yet did quite a few Atlantic convoys during the war - Samuel Bakke as 3rd RO. He must have passed his written test a the first go.

Thanks

David

+

ps. He used to brag that he had hot running water in his cabin !!!.............. Unheard of do I hear anyone say ??


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## teb (May 23, 2008)

trotterdotpom said:


> Thanks for that post, Ian. I didn't know that. Presumably they were just churning out operators as fast as they could.
> 
> John T


To true I was on my first trip within a couple of weeks after getting my special!!!


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## trotterdotpom (Apr 29, 2005)

teb said:


> To true I was on my first trip within a couple of weeks after getting my special!!!


Glad to hear that you and Ian made it through, Teb. Despite our moans and groans, us "youngsters" are the lucky generation.

John T


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## Troppo (Feb 18, 2010)

Indeed!


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## Bernard McIver (Feb 26, 2007)

Like Teb I was at sea two weeks after obtaining my Special Certificate. Probably saved me from National Service as I had just turned 18. First trip lasted 3 months then away for 2 years so no chance to sit for 2nd R/O in that time.
Bernard


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## R651400 (Jun 18, 2005)

trotterdotpom said:


> Glad to hear that you and Ian made it through, Teb....


I'll second that and also to Bernard and every other WW2 R/O and MN Seafarer who gave me the opportunity to see my children and hopefully now my grand-children have a world war free life.


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## cajef (Feb 8, 2012)

trotterdotpom said:


> I can't imagine what would possess an RO to sabotage his own equipment ... as you suggest, definitely only four electrodes in that pentode!


Usually to gain an extra day in port, if it was an evening tide they would try to delay the sailing.

In the days of valve radar I got called to a trawler one morning that should have gone the previous evening but they would not sail because the radar was not working they swore blind that it was ok when they docked and no one had touched it, a few checks and I found two of the valves in the I.F. strip had jumped out and replaced themselves with two neons.(EEK)


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