# Artemis



## plasma

Received a letter from P&O cruises today to say Artemis will be sold in 2011. Mick.


----------



## shamrock

She is effectively going to be sold as of October 6th this year but chartered back to P&O til after she completes her world voyage in 2011. Artania Shipping will be her owners and they will probably charter her out to Phoenix Reisen, which has been the rumour all the way along. Phoenix Reisen's other ships Albatros & Amadea are owned by Albatros Shipping & Amadea Shipping...so Artemis will likely change her name to Artania to match her new owner, but not til she finishes with P&O of course, til then she stays as Artemis.


----------



## fred henderson

Artemis will be 27 years old in 2011. It is nice to see Carnival selling their oldest ships to the small operators who cannot afford to build new vessels. Royal Caribbean seems to be trying to hang on to their old ships and operate them in their own sub-prime companies.

Fred (Thumb)


----------



## Paul UK

Hi Guys

do we know if Azura is her replacement or do we expect another new build for the UK market with a nice buff funnel.

Paul


----------



## shamrock

There are no more newbuilds this side of 2012 since the yards are still running on loaded orderbooks and the Euro is working against the US dollar in value. Azura is a sort of replacement for Artemis but only in berths not necessarily in style or atmosphere.


----------



## sidsal

Sorry to hear Artemis will go. Did a S America and Meddy cruise on her. Nice size - no outside cabins. Shudder to contemplete going on the very big ships and after last years cruise on Artemis in the Meddy where most ports were inundated with people milling about we have decided not to go again unless on small ships to out of the way places.


----------



## Paul UK

I agree, there must be a place for smaller ships within Carnival.

Paul




sidsal said:


> Sorry to hear Artemis will go. Did a S America and Meddy cruise on her. Nice size - no outside cabins. Shudder to contemplete going on the very big ships and after last years cruise on Artemis in the Meddy where most ports were inundated with people milling about we have decided not to go again unless on small ships to out of the way places.


----------



## Pompeyfan

I wonder if when Artemis goes, Arcadia will be the only adult only ship in the fleet?. 

David


----------



## fred henderson

sidsal said:


> Sorry to hear Artemis will go. Did a S America and Meddy cruise on her. Nice size - no outside cabins. Shudder to contemplete going on the very big ships and after last years cruise on Artemis in the Meddy where most ports were inundated with people milling about we have decided not to go again unless on small ships to out of the way places.


I think that you have a slight typo Sidsal. Artemis has no inside cabins - being one of the very small number of large passenger ships that have been built with all outside cabins.

Fred (Thumb)


----------



## David E

Pompeyfan said:


> I wonder if when Artemis goes, Arcadia will be the only adult only ship in the fleet?.
> 
> David


It looks like it.The Annual Berlitz Guide to "Cruising and Cruise Ships" was published this week.Across the spectrum,there are very few child free ships left.
I'm sure you are familiar with the publication-the analysis this year is quite brutal and details the effect of cost cutting in most of the cruising fleet.The total analysis of all the ships is brilliant

Regards


----------



## sidsal

Fred Henderson
Sorry - of course should have said - no inside cabins !!
When we went around S America we were ( as usual) in the cheapest cabin - obstructed view etc. On boarding at BA there was a note on the dressing table saying we were on the Captain's table. Told the steward some mistake - he said - consult the maitre-d at dinner which I did. He said - no - captain's table OK. We got on very well and he said it was a change to have an old seafarer to chat with - and we had loads of jokes and laughs. He let us go on the bridge whenever we wanted and the 1st officer was an old Conway so we had a great time. We didn't overdo the rpiviledge however.
On investigating I think I found the answer as the occupant of the owner's suite was a Davis ( American) and I am Davies. I imagine someone in the pursers office had told some minion - put the Davis' on the captain's table - and they probably scanned the list and found us by mistake !!


----------



## jAdUwallah

A friend, who works for Carnival, recently told me that Artemis is known as Arthritis, due to the average age of the passengers on her. (?HUH)


----------



## sidsal

Could be appropriate as she is a small ship compared with these floating blocks of flats which probably appeal more to the younger set. Mind you most P&O ships seem to be floating old folks homes.


----------



## Paul UK

Hi Sidsal

Sorry must disagree with you on this all the P and O ships I have been on are far from old peoples homes, maybe not like a fun fair like Carnival or RCCL, but I think sophisticated and I'm 46.

Paul(Thumb) 




sidsal said:


> Could be appropriate as she is a small ship compared with these floating blocks of flats which probably appeal more to the younger set. Mind you most P&O ships seem to be floating old folks homes.


----------



## Pompeyfan

Paul UK said:


> Hi Sidsal
> 
> Sorry must disagree with you on this all the P and O ships I have been on are far from old peoples homes, maybe not like a fun fair like Carnival or RCCL, but I think sophisticated and I'm 46.
> 
> Paul(Thumb)


I think it depends on length of cruise, and time of year etc. Certainly Oriana and Aurora the two I cruised a lot on had loads of elderly people although there are far more of your age group Paul than there used to be when I was working for P&O in the early days of cruising. It was rarity to see younger people on a cruise, but alive with kids and younger people on 'line voyages' all emigrating.

The last time on Aurora there were over 50 wheel chairs, and due to the time of year, hardly any children. I personally do not agree with child free ships. Even on ships that allowed children older passengers were moaning about them, and none of the kids were a problem, they just disliked children and I asked why they did not go aboard Arcadia or Artemis instead. These passengers were as miserable as sin anyway, always moaning. The world cruise on Oriana was the same, hardly any kids or younger people, but people of advanced years constantly moaning, arguing over deck chairs, pushing people out of the way in the buffet, almost getting into fights in the laundrette, acting far worse than any child. So I would certainly not want to go on an adult only ship if all adults act like that?!.

On Black Watch and Bouddica was the same, few children but plenty of moaning adults or some turning their nose up thinking they were superior to us, or woman getting catty eyeing up each others dress or blokes trying to out dress each other. All part of the fun of cruising (Jester) 

David


----------



## Paul UK

Hi David

I'm sure it depends on the length of the cruise due to affordability, but I always find whingers amd moaners fair game so that's why I have fun I suppose.

Paul(==D) 


Pompeyfan said:


> I think it depends on length of cruise, and time of year etc. Certainly Oriana and Aurora the two I cruised a lot on had loads of elderly people although there are far more of your age group Paul than there used to be when I was working for P&O in the early days of cruising. It was rarity to see younger people on a cruise, but alive with kids and younger people on 'line voyages' all emigrating.
> 
> The last time on Aurora there were over 50 wheel chairs, and due to the time of year, hardly any children. I personally do not agree with child free ships. Even on ships that allowed children older passengers were moaning about them, and none of the kids were a problem, they just disliked children and I asked why they did not go aboard Arcadia or Artemis instead. These passengers were as miserable as sin anyway, always moaning. The world cruise on Oriana was the same, hardly any kids or younger people, but people of advanced years constantly moaning, arguing over deck chairs, pushing people out of the way in the buffet, almost getting into fights in the laundrette, acting far worse than any child. So I would certainly not want to go on an adult only ship if all adults act like that?!.
> 
> On Black Watch and Bouddica was the same, few children but plenty of moaning adults or some turning their nose up thinking they were superior to us, or woman getting catty eyeing up each others dress or blokes trying to out dress each other. All part of the fun of cruising (Jester)
> 
> David


----------



## sidsal

Pomeyfan will know more about P&O and the age groups no doubt. I n my experience though, the average age seems to have got older. We cruised on ships like Chusan and Canberra years ago and there were lots of youngish folk with children. However, Oriana ( the present one) in which we cruised on her first year, had lots of geriatrics - zimmer frames and wheelchairs abounded. Artemis, last year had a very fair number of old folk ( us included) and, we did not enjoy the overcrowded ports. We will look out for offers on small ships such as those chartered by Noble Caledonia.
Seems to me that , as with so many good things, everyone piles in and in the end it ceases to be good.


----------



## Pompeyfan

sidsal said:


> Pomeyfan will know more about P&O and the age groups no doubt. I n my experience though, the average age seems to have got older. We cruised on ships like Chusan and Canberra years ago and there were lots of youngish folk with children. However, Oriana ( the present one) in which we cruised on her first year, had lots of geriatrics - zimmer frames and wheelchairs abounded. Artemis, last year had a very fair number of old folk ( us included) and, we did not enjoy the overcrowded ports. We will look out for offers on small ships such as those chartered by Noble Caledonia.
> Seems to me that , as with so many good things, everyone piles in and in the end it ceases to be good.


Hi Sidsal

I assume that hhen you cruised on Canberra, and Chusan it was between 'line voyages'?. Certainly during the 70s, when Canberra was still a liner, still first class and tourist, and cruising in between 'line voyages', to the Med during our summer, and from Sydney during our winter, the passengers were much older. There were a few families with children, but nothing like on the 'line voyages'. On 'line voyages', it was mainly families emigrating because her trade was transport, not cruising. Having said that, we did have older passengers on 'line voyages' some going out to live with family, or using the voyage as a cruise, those who could afford to do so. When Canberra went cruising proper, I had moved over the old Arcadia who was also cruising proper, from the west coast of America, but our passengers were just about all elderly. On a cruise from Vancouver to the Caribbean, one passenger spent the entire cruise in our hospital!. 

Cruises I have been on latterly as a passenger especially the Oriana world cruise had a large amount of elderly people, but also more younger people than during my day. There is certainly a wider age group than ever before going on cruises, especially the monsters. I was aboard the Navigator and Independence of the Seas, and both were alive with children because they are superb ships for families, not so good for me when alone, but would have loved to have taken my grandchildren. I prefer the tradition of P&O finding Oriana and Aurora at least provide that tradition. On Oriana and Aurora they have children, but you do not always notice because they cleverly arrange the ship that the smaller kids have their own area, the teenagers and so on, but you do not really notice, although I didn't usually cruise during school holidays so may have missed the rush?!.

The smaller ships are certainly better for being friendlier, could be better sailors if originally built as liners, and can get into smaller ports. But many of the older ships are sadly showing their age, even if they meet modern requirements. 

This would be one of the reasons Artemis is being withdrawn. she was actually built as a cruise ship. But P&O show no sentiments to their ships as age creeps in. 

David


----------



## Ian6

Must agree with Sidsal. Despite a P&O background I cannot associate the modern 'P and O Cruises' giants operated by Carnival with the now sadly dead P and OSN Co'. Noble Caledonia offer cruises in more human sized ships. We went to Alaska some years ago in 'Universe Explorer' with N.C. No glitzy evening entertainment but equally no 'relaxing day at sea' nonsense either, designed to get you spending more money on board. The ports of call came daily and the scenery was the entertainment.
Ian


----------



## sidsal

Very interesting comments by you chaps who have more experience of these cruise ships. 
About ten years ago Noble Caledonia advertised in the Telegraph on a Saturday saying an American party had cancelled and offering an 18 day cruise for about £1300pp. We phoned and booked - all gone on Monday.
Flew to Colombo and then Maldives and joined the Caleldonian Star - about 80 passengers. Went to several of the Maldives and then sailed over to the Seychells and did five or six islands there. Then flew home via Nairobi.
That's the sort of cruise I like - pricewise and itinerywise !!


----------



## R58484956

*P&o*

P&O have announced sail of their smallest and oldest ship Artemis to a German travel company MS Artania Shipping for an undisclosed sum.
P&O will continue to operate the vessel until 12th April 2011 to honour published cruises. The sale was completed on the 6th October 2009.


----------



## sidsal

There goes the only P&O ship which looks vaguley like a ship and is of a size to suit us. I suppose the giants are more profitable for the company.


----------



## PhilColebrook

sidsal said:


> There goes the only P&O ship which looks vaguley like a ship and is of a size to suit us. I suppose the giants are more profitable for the company.


Aww c'mon. The Aurora, whilst slab-sided, looked lovely in the evening light when I last saw her in Southampton, and not too big by modern standards. And with proper screws instead of the dreaded bearing-burning pods. I'm booked on the QM2 for April transatlantic and when I queried with Cunard about the extended sailing (7 nights as opposed to 6) I was told it was by "popular demand". Nonsense. It's because it increases on-board spend and her pod engines need to be run at slower speeds to avoid a trip to the dry-dock. And a naval architect friend of mine told me that they had found cracks in her stairwells. Used to be that French ships just burnt out. Now they throw a cog as well.


----------



## sidsal

Royal Mail liner Andes, Union Castle liners, Blue Funnel ships.
Now - there is true beauty. Curves and sheer and some rake to the masts.
The Aurora and others are not in the same league.
Sorry Phil !!


----------



## Lksimcoe

Phil

I remember reading somewhere last year that the 7 night crossings are to reduce fuel consumption. It also makes sense that theiri staff have no clue what they are talking about, as I've run into before. I met a staff member of the QM2 last year in Miami, who had no idea on the history of the line. I spent a couple of hours in a bar filling him in on what I remembered. I didn't mind doing it, as he was buying the drinks!!


----------



## PhilColebrook

sidsal said:


> Royal Mail liner Andes, Union Castle liners, Blue Funnel ships.
> Now - there is true beauty. Curves and sheer and some rake to the masts.
> The Aurora and others are not in the same league.
> Sorry Phil !!


I could not disagree with this generally, really. I even look back at photos of the ferries my old man worked on in NZ and realise that even they were beauties by comparison. Still, the QM2 looked very purposeful yet quite graceful at sea when I was on the QE2 last westbound. 

Does anyone know why ships were built with sheer? Was it just a continuation of wooden ships and the fact that deck might have been curved? I know the stunning liner "L'Atlantique" dispensed with sheer in the early thirties, making me think that architects and builders just kept sheer for the sake of looks.


----------



## Trevor Clements

Aurora has some of the design (from ashore) pedigree of the liners I grew up admiring, and I do think she is the best looking ship in the P&O fleet.

As to Artemis. We had two nice cruises in her, but my wife sustained a damaged shoulder as a result of a tendering accident which was avoidable had the officer at the top of the ladder had his eye on the ball. She is getting very ancient, the guard rails on the lido deck were rusted through in places, and there is a bit of a smell in the bathrooms. Good sea ship though, unlike Oriana which rolls with a corkscrew motion, in quite slight swells.

We did the Aurora N Atlantic cruise up as far as Quebec in September 2010, and the ship and cruise were excellent, certainly the smoothest crossing both ways that I can remember.


----------



## bluestreak

*P&O Ships*

'er indoors informs me that Adonia, Arcadia and Oriana are designated "kids free". Some kids can be a pain, but we have found that in the main, if you aknowledge them, they are fine. 

Cruised in Artemis a few years ago and basically it was a dead ship after midnight! One night, just after the entertainment had finished in the after lounge, we did a tour of the bars. Up the stbd side and down the Port side. The only people we came across were the staff cleaning up. So we went up to the bar in the stern, and there we found more staff than customers!

Other P&O ships we have sailed on, Oriana, Arcadia and Ventura. Now if you want an "experience", try the latter!! Billy Butlins at sea!!


----------

