# The loss of Brasilian Navy battleship Sao Paulo



## Stevepaint (Jan 22, 2008)

Hi
I would be interested to receive any information about the loss of the above vessel the activities of The Ensign Rigging Company and any of its staff members whilst in Rio de Janeiro in 1951 whilst preparing the ship for towing to the breakers. I believe there were two salvage tugs involved in towing one was the Buster from memory but I could be wrong any information about this would be of interest also
My father William Charles Painter was in charge of salvage activities aboard the Sao Paulo and I am visiting Rio de Janeiro next month and hope to visit some of the places my father was working at so if the area where the vessel was berthed whilst being worked on is known this would be most welcome information.
Best regards
Steve Painter


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## treeve (Nov 15, 2005)

Hello again Steve, in all seriousness, is it known for certain as to where she was being towed. I have heard two stories. The other is that there were two tugs, that I have read before, but I also read that the three vessels disappeared in a violent storm. It has been one of those tales that I have often wondered about but never fully researched. The reason I say as to the place of intended breakup is the fact of research in Italy or the UK to determine any preparations in either direction. I remember there was a tug named Butser in operation at that time, I think. I would have imagined the authorities would be helpful to you in Rio; have you made preparatory arrangement to meet anyone? Best Wishes, Raymond


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## treeve (Nov 15, 2005)

Have you contacted the International Naval Research Organisation.
http://www.warship.org/


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## ddraigmor (Sep 13, 2006)

The voyage is covered in the book 'Turmoil' by Ewart Brookes. The ship vanished whilst on tow in appaling weather conditions - I don't think anything has ever been heard as to where.

Jonty


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## Geoff_E (Nov 24, 2006)

Alan Villier's book "Posted Missing" [Hodder & Stoughton 1959] has a chapter on the loss of the Sao Paulo. The tugs are named as "Dextrous" & "Bustler".

William Painter is quoted as "Managing Director" of the Ensign Rigging Co. I've just hastily skimmed that chapter; it mentions the tow being close to the Azores on the "presumed" date of loss [4th November 1951] and "Dextrous" slipping the tow because of almost colliding with "Bustler".

Busy now, but I'll read the whole thing through properly later. BTW "posted Missing" is quite a good source of info. on various missing vessels of the '30's, '40's & '50's,


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## gdynia (Nov 3, 2005)

Photo of her on http://www.battleships-cruisers.co.uk/brazilian_navy.htm


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## treeve (Nov 15, 2005)

*Minas Geraes*

Out of parallel interest ....
Minas Geraes, sister to Sao Paolo; photograph c1935.
19,200t; 545ft; built England 1910; refitted USA 1931; 12x12inch, 14 x 4.7inch, 4 x 3 inch AA; 21 knots; complement 850;
modernised 1934-9 and 1937-40.


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## Geoff_E (Nov 24, 2006)

There is an extract from "Lloyds List" quoted as an intro to the "Sao Paulo" chapter. This give the position of the tow parting as, "150 miles NE of the Azores".

Google for "battleship sao paulo" brings up about 198 sites including this one:

http://www.galactic-server.net/rune/battlesh1.htm 

The site itself is gobbledegook but, scroll down the page and there are scanned extracts of a magazine article by Alan Villiers; ["Pageant" magazine, February 1957] This appears to be a partial extract, word-for-word, of the chapter in "Posted Missing", which I mentioned in my previous post. The book itself is quoted as first published, September 1956.

It's a sad story Steve, especially as there hasn't been any "closure", as it were. You have my deep sympathy. Incidentally, a search on http://www.abebooks.co.uk for the Alan Villiers book brings up 116 hits and quotes prices from as low as £2.00. If you feel the need to obtain a copy and I can assist, please let me know?


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## treeve (Nov 15, 2005)

Official Brazilian Navy website at
https://www.mar.mil.br/

also on very low bandwidth - refresh may be necessary
Brazilian maritime history; I have been there before and
it has been fine, but some times of day it is like waiting for paint to dry.
http://biblioteca.sdm.mar.mil.br/internet/navios/inicio.htm


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## treeve (Nov 15, 2005)

Steve - you have my deepest sympathy ... now I have read that article.


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## ddraigmor (Sep 13, 2006)

The book by Ewart Brookes 'Turmoil' (Ch. 12) uses the incident to show the dangers not usually brought to mind of tow jobs.

The Inquiry into the loss of the 'Sao Paulo' was held at 10 Carlton House Terrace. SW1 on 4th / 5th / 6th and 8th of October 1954 before Mr. R F Haywood QC assisted by Captain A M Atkinson and Mr. W J Nutton.

They found no fault with the setting up of the tow nor the towing but arrived at the conclusion that she foundered, possibly capsizing, in a heavy NW gale after both tugs ('Dextrous' and 'Bustler') parted their tow ropes. They put the loss down to 'the failure of the temporary closings of some gunports or other openings' - a job that hjad been entrusted to the Brazilian Navy, though they discretely never pointed any fingers in that direction.

The 'Sao Paulo' had to be ballasted via fire pumps of both tugs before the voyage started, but she left quietly and began her passage to the breakers.

On the fateful night, 'Dextrous' slipped the tow first (on Nov 4th) as the 'Sao Paulo' took a starboatrd sheer and slipped into a trough dragging both tugs with her. 'Dextrous' slipped on the command of Captain Adam of the 'Bustler' (Towing Master) as both tugs would otherwise have been drawn together - with disastrous consequences for all.

'Sao Paulo' was, however, still sheering wildly and 'Bustler''s tow then parted and fouled her prop. This was at 17.30. 'Bustler''s radar and radio calls to the 'Sao Paulo' elicited no response - and it was rapidly conclyuded that she was lost somewhere in the storm. Both tugs started to search - 'Bustler' had cleared her prop by this time - and continued to do so all that night.

The next morning, 'Dextrous' was taking such a battering from the weather and. after she had been swept by a particularly heavy sea, had to return to port due to the damage it caused her. 'Turmoil' - at this time away to the North - reached the sxcene and together with 'Bustler', continued the search.

On Nov 19th, 'Bustler' had to leave for Lisbon for bunkers, leaving 'Turmoil' on scene. Aircraft of the RAF, the USAF and the Portugese Airforce also joined the search - but nothing was ever found and on Nov 20th, the search was called off.

A Court of Inquiry decided that the weight of the wind caused the 'Sao Paulo' to heel over until her gun ports took in sea water whereupon she foundered. She did so 'extremely rapidly'.

The facts above were taken from the book by Brookes and are abridged and re-written to avoid copyright issues!

Hope it helps?

Jonty


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## JohnByde (Mar 22, 2008)

*Sao Paolo*

Yep - as someone says below, Alan Villiers's book, "Posted Missing" has a very interesting chapter on this disappearance. I got it off Amazon recently and I'm sure there are still other copies knocking around.

All the best

John Byde


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## blaamanden (Mar 20, 2008)

Hello, the french book "...et l'océan fût leur tombe" contains an article regarding the SAO PAULO. My english is quite poor, but I'll try to translate it quickly : SAO PAULO was a 20000 tons dreadnoughts built in GB in 1909-10 for brazilian navy. After 40 years without fight, the brazilian goverment decided to sell the old ship to the British Iron & Steel Co for destruction. SAO PAULO was supposed to cross the Atlantic to get GB thanks to the Ensign Rigging Co Ltd, a british company which had in charge the organization of the cruiser before his last travel and managed by M William Painter. The preparation of the ship took more of 3700 hours. 
The cruiser left Brazil with a 8 riggers crew on sept 20th of 1951 with 2 tugs : the Bustler (capt Jonathan Adams) and the Dexterous. During a storm (nov 4th), the cruiser disappeared and despite of all the searches (by british, US and portuguese airplanes), he was declared a total lost on nov 20th.
NB : the Dexterous was damaged during the storm and was replaced by the Turmoil.
All the best


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## melliget (Dec 3, 2006)

*Articles from The Times*

Three articles from The Times covering the inquiry (in 1954) into the loss of the São Paulo: click here, here and here.

This one here puzzles me. A reported sighting 11 days after the ship was said to have been lost. A case of mistaken identity or a hoax perhaps?

regards,
Martin

p.s. Though these articles will stay here for a while, they will eventually be removed so please copy if interested.


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## melliget (Dec 3, 2006)

*National Archives do***ents*

A couple of do***ents held by the National Archives:

FO 128/476, Loss of the battleship Sao Paulo, 1953
FO 371/108852, Formal investigation into loss of ex-Brazilian battleship Sao Paulo: requests for do***ents, 1954


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## Stevepaint (Jan 22, 2008)

*Many thanks*

Hi to all of those of you who replied to my first post. I have to admit I was unaware of your posts as there was not any notification to my email. However I have seen all the information you have kindly passed on I shall print it off ad read it in bed tonight (K) 
The reason I came back to the site was I am now in fact living in Brasil and the weekend coming I am visiting the National Maritime Museum in Sao Francisco du Sul and had poked around on the web to see what other info I could dig up prior to the visit.
My elder brother had forwarded me the court of enquiry details and extracts from Alan Villiers book.
I visited Rio as mentioned in my original post last year and had a look around, notably visiting the Defence Building which was the picture on the last post card my father sent home, also Corcovado. There is a small Naval dockyard and I guess this would have been the area where the Sao Paulo was berthed prior to sailing.
Not sure if this is spooky or not but my wife is from Sao Paulo and my sister in law now lives in Minas Gerais.
Once again may thanks for the info.
Steve
PS the link is now in my menu bar


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## WarrenA (Sep 23, 2012)

Stevepaint said:


> Hi to all of those of you who replied to my first post. I have to admit I was unaware of your posts as there was not any notification to my email. However I have seen all the information you have kindly passed on I shall print it off ad read it in bed tonight (K)
> The reason I came back to the site was I am now in fact living in Brasil and the weekend coming I am visiting the National Maritime Museum in Sao Francisco du Sul and had poked around on the web to see what other info I could dig up prior to the visit.
> My elder brother had forwarded me the court of enquiry details and extracts from Alan Villiers book.
> I visited Rio as mentioned in my original post last year and had a look around, notably visiting the Defence Building which was the picture on the last post card my father sent home, also Corcovado. There is a small Naval dockyard and I guess this would have been the area where the Sao Paulo was berthed prior to sailing.
> ...


Hi Steve - curious to know if you've located any further information about the loss of the Sao Paolo since your last post here?
warren


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## turjus (Nov 27, 2013)

*The aliens took it*

This link says they were looking for an Earth battleship for their museum, and this one being towed across the Atlantic was too good an opportunity to miss (Fly)

http://galactic.no/rune/battlesh1.htm


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## EBONY130 (May 31, 2014)

my granddad was FRANK JAMES CORNISH he was lost with the crew of the Sao Paula his son William Malcolm James Cornish was my dad we have been trying to get more info on the ship my dad was 14yrs old on the 15th nov and lied about his age so he could board a ship as crew to search for his father


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## EBONY130 (May 31, 2014)

*grandad lost on sao paulo*



EBONY130 said:


> my granddad was FRANK JAMES CORNISH he was lost with the crew of the Sao Paula his son William Malcolm James Cornish was my dad we have been trying to get more info on the ship my dad was 14yrs old on the 15th nov and lied about his age so he could board a ship as crew to search for his father any info will be a great help also how would i find out if insurance/payments of any kind was paid to the families of the lost seaman


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## Stevepaint (Jan 22, 2008)

*Insurance payout*

Hi Ebony
Sorry to disappoint you but there was no pot of gold in the form of an insurance payout. Our family lived on the very meager government widows pension only for 4 years till I was old enough for school and my mother was then able to go out to work full time.

I have not discovered anything further than what has been posted here already. I did in fact visit Rio again in June and took a ferry over to Niteroi. The ferry passes the Naval Dockyard and I imagine this would have been the last view of Rio for the crew, when we were a short distance out into the bay an old steam launch came into view; it was quite an emotional moment.

By way of apology to yourself and others whose posts I have not responded to, I have only just discovered the tab for email notifications.


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