# East German ship sunk in the Thames



## Cisco (Jan 29, 2007)

Gday, looking for the name of the East German ship that sank in the Thames near Greys in the late 60's. The name Magdalena comes to mind but I don't think that is it.

She had loaded buses for Cuba ( were they new or second hand?).

Salvaged but sank under tow to a repair yard..said to have been scuttled as the cargo ex E Germany was, how you say, of a 'sensitive' nature.

TIA

Cisco


----------



## Bearsie (Nov 11, 2006)

MS Magdeburg IMO 5521702, WARNOWWERFT #1307, 1958, 9656 grt 13 000 tdw, 157m x 20m. Collision off Broadness Point, Thames 27.10.64
I doubt they scuttled it, if the cargo was that sensitive they would have gone straight ....
official german report says: set aground after collision, I suppose a la MSC Napoli


----------



## Bearsie (Nov 11, 2006)

Here a link with picture of a sistership , there were 15 of the type IV ships in the DSR fleet:

http://www.seefunk-fx-intern.de/stamm/stamm239.htm


----------



## Bruce Carson (Jun 14, 2005)

There were 42 new Leyland Olympics.

http://www.busesworldwide.org/uruguayolympic.htm

Bruce C


----------



## trotterdotpom (Apr 29, 2005)

*CIA 42 - Castro 0?*

At the time of Magdeburg's collision in the Thames, the Americans were imposing embargoes on exports to Cuba and there is a suspicion that the CIA had a hand in the event.

Here's an excerpt from a book called "Killing Hope" by William Blum, about Cuba 1959 to 1980.

"One manufacturer who defied the embargo was the British Leyland
Company, which sold a large number of buses to Cuba in 1964. 
Repeated expressions of criticism and protest by Washington
officials and Congressmen failed to stem deliveries of some of
the buses. Then, in October, an East German cargo ship carrying
another 42 buses to Cuba collided in thick fog with a Japanese
vessel in the Thames. The Japanese ship was able to continue on,
but the cargo ship was beached on its side; the buses would have
to be "written off", said the Leyland company. In the leading
British newspapers it was just an accident story.{16} In the
New York Times it was not even reported. A decade was to
pass before the American columnist Jack Anderson disclosed that
his CIA and National Security Agency sources had confirmed that
the collision had been arranged by the CIA with the cooperation
of British intelligence.{17} Subsequently, another CIA officer
stated that he was skeptical about the collision story, although
admitting that "it is true that we were sabotaging the Leyland
buses going to Cuba from England, and that was pretty sensitive
business."{18} "

Anyone waiting for a bus in England in the '60s knew that someone was sabotaging British Leyland!

John T.


----------



## Cisco (Jan 29, 2007)

Thanks everybody for that information ...... well, I was close with the name..of course Magdalena is 'the name that shall not be uttered' esp in RM circles......



Bearsie said:


> official german report says: set aground after collision, I suppose a la MSC Napoli


I recall seeing her on her side on the north (?) bank, looked more like the Grimaldi ship in Antwerp.


----------



## awateah2 (Feb 12, 2005)

Thre is already a thread on this site, type in 'Magdeburg'


----------



## Bearsie (Nov 11, 2006)

The whole CIA Jack Anderson conspiracy stuff sounds like the typical after the fact hyped up american nonsense to me.
Most likely the CIA bribed Churchill to smoke faster to make the fog...


----------



## trotterdotpom (Apr 29, 2005)

Bearsie said:


> The whole CIA Jack Anderson conspiracy stuff sounds like the typical after the fact hyped up american nonsense to me.
> Most likely the CIA bribed Churchill to smoke faster to make the fog...


Good point, Bearsie. I hadn't spotted the obvious link between Churchill and Castro - cigars! Could old Winnie have been a double agent? He "died" just 3 months after the Magdeburg incident. A healthy 90 year old who'd smoked good quality cigars and drank top grade scotch all his life, too much of a coincidence! I bet he's even now living it up in Guantanamo Bay.

When he said: "We'll fight them on the beaches....", nobody realised he meant in a London bus.

John T.


----------



## ruud (Dec 6, 2004)

Ahoy,
Collision took place on 27-10-1964 with Japanese freighter YAMASHIRO MARU 1963-10,466 tons.Sold for £75,000 to Greece,sunk 20 miles off Brest whilst towing to her final destination.
Courtesy/©Hein Wenzel


----------



## duquesa (Aug 31, 2006)

*East German ship sunk in thames*

Anyone who knew the pilot on board the Yamashiro Maru and the turmoil he went through in the following years would discount immediately any "Arranged Collision" theories. As has been said above, American Hype. We are seeing plenty of it currently on our TVs.


----------



## Tony Crompton (Jul 26, 2005)

Passed her many times while Second Mate on an Esso Dingbat.
-----------------------------------
Tony C


----------



## Tony Crompton (Jul 26, 2005)

Another sad picture of a once fine ship.
------------------------
Tony C


----------



## Santander (Jun 1, 2007)

Cisco said:


> Gday, looking for the name of the East German ship that sank in the Thames near Greys in the late 60's. The name Magdalena comes to mind but I don't think that is it.
> 
> She had loaded buses for Cuba ( were they new or second hand?).
> 
> ...


The name you require is the mv Magdeburg. I have just completed some serious investigations into this incident. There has definitely been a cover up.
If you want a free copy of article please contact me *via PM *

Santander


----------



## Athaz (Oct 20, 2008)

the ship was the Magdeburg, capsized near HMS Worcester, drifted down to tilbury point. I was on watch that night. I remember the jap ship was tokio maru.It took 1 year to right the german ship and tow her away. it was a very fogy night and nearly hit us and the Everard ships on moorings near us (HMS Worcester).
I did have photos of the incident at the time but sadly lost in the intervening 40+ years. I believe it was 1964. (I was a cadet officer 1964-66).
regards

Atha


----------



## non descript (Nov 18, 2005)

Athaz said:


> the ship was the Magdeburg, capsized near HMS Worcester, drifted down to tilbury point. I was on watch that night. I remember the jap ship was tokio maru.It took 1 year to right the german ship and tow her away. it was a very fogy night and nearly hit us and the Everard ships on moorings near us (HMS Worcester).
> I did have photos of the incident at the time but sadly lost in the intervening 40+ years. I believe it was 1964. (I was a cadet officer 1964-66).
> regards
> 
> Atha


Atha, the posting at *# 10* is quite helpful in terms of dates and Japanese ship involved appears *here*.


----------



## Hugh Ferguson (Sep 4, 2006)

The Japanese ship was Yamashiro Maru. I had joined her in Antwerp to pilot her to London. I seem to recall having to wait several days for her arrival as she had been delayed leaving Liverpool on account of bad weather. 
Eventually we got away and the nearer we got to Gravesend the thicker the fog became. However, we arrived Gravesend and I handed over to the river pilot. I adjourned to the Clarendon hotel and as I turned in I can remember listening to the cacophony of sounds of fog signals and anchors being let go in a hurry-I was glad to be out of it.
The report by Jack Anderson in the Washington Post was utter balderdash. I read it with total disbelief: it was the kind of journalism that brings the whole profession into disrepute.


----------



## Tony Crompton (Jul 26, 2005)

I adjourned to the Clarendon
QUOTE said:


> There's a name from the past!! When on "H.M.S. Worcester" we were only allowed three half days per term off. What a treat it was to be taken by parents,relatives or friends to the Clarendon in Gravesend for lunch or tea.
> 
> Tony


----------



## Weemac (Oct 24, 2008)

The salvage company brought a floating crane from East Germany to lift herand ther were jolly boat trips from Worcester to see her and the cross country run went along the shore side.


----------



## billmaca (Jan 14, 2006)

I'm sure I posted some photos that I took at 3/4 week intervals of this ship (on board North Star running Jamaica from albert dock)showing her from grounding to refloating, did'nt she sink on the way to the scrapyard, still got the photos

Bill


----------



## Santander (Jun 1, 2007)

*Sinking of East German Ship in Thames 1964*

See Sunday Observer article www.guardian.co.uk. October 26th 2008

An Inquiry did take place in the former East German republic to which both Trinity House pilots Greenfield (on the mv Magdeburg) and Johnson (mv Yamashiro Maru) had submitted written evidence. Both confirmed that visibility at time of collison was clear and that both claimed that they could see the each other's vessel across the Boardness peninsular.

The East German inquiry found that the Japanese freighter had sent misleading signals to the the East German vessel and the former ship was travelling in the wrong channel contrary to Port of London Authority and International regulations.

If the Japanese vessel was in the wrong channel what advice did her pilot give? Did he advise the Japanese captain to correct his line of steering or was he ignored?

Did Trinity House and the Japanese shipowners conduct their own inquiries and what were the outcomes?

According to October 1964 Lloyds lists, the Japense freighter arrived in Liverpool on Oct 17th 1964 from Yokohama. There was no mention of her travelling later to Antwerp but Loyds records the vessel as departing from Antwerp directly to Yokohama prior to her travelling to the Thames.
Can anyone shed any light on this inconsistency? Did the ship sail from Liverpool to Antwerp in ballast?

Seems that the fog excuse could be scotch mist?


----------



## Santander (Jun 1, 2007)

You say that you took the vessel over from Antwerp to the Thames and that there was a delay before the vessel finally arrived from Liverpool. Do you know if the vessel had sailed in ballast from Liverpool to Antwerp?

Any information you could provide would be appreciated.


----------



## Hugh Ferguson (Sep 4, 2006)

Santander, I take it your query is directed at me: I was stood off at 0959 on the 23rd October to proceed to Antwerp (from Dover) to pilot the Yamashiro Maru from Antwerp to London. At 1800 the same day I arrived in Antwerp to discover that the ship was still in Liverpool. Next day, 24th., Mr Yvens, the agent told me that she would be leaving Liverpool tonight and would arrive Antwerp at 2200, Sunday 25th Oct. as she did. We sailed next day and I was invited to take charge when the Belgium pilot landed to their cutter at 1945 on the 26th.. 
Her deepest draft at that time was 18ft, speed 20 knots fine and clear weather. Passed the Tongue L/V at 2245 and I disembarked to the Gravesend pilot cutter at 0115 Tuesday 27th Oct., when the Trinity House river pilot took over. It had become increasingly foggy the further we got into the river but I have no idea how the visibility may have been at the position in which the collision occurred.


----------



## mjcoates (Nov 19, 2008)

An analysis by John Clandillon Baker of Pilot Magazine has appeared here: http://www.maritimeaccident.org/magdeburg-vs-yamashiro-maru-plot-and-clots-part-2/


----------



## wood butcher (May 22, 2010)

I was on the drydocking of the Magdeburg in Tilbury Docks,i remember the great gash in her full of Thames mud.Temporary plates were welded to her so she could be towed to buyers,Greeks i think,i heard after that she sank in the Bay of Biscay after the towline parted.


----------



## gary25455 (Jan 22, 2011)

I was only 9 when she went aground and me and my mates used to walk from Greenhithe Village along the sea wall to look at her. If I remember correctly the salvage company filled her with footballs. Every kid along the Thames must have had dozens. I did. They came in on every tide.


----------



## Engineer's daughter (Jun 16, 2011)

*Egineer's daughter*

In going through my father's effects I have found that while working for Green & Silley Weir at Tilbury he worked on the Magdeburg in Dec 1965. I have come across a full list of works done from 3.12.1965 to 13.12.1965 before she left for Piraeus. There are also 13 photos of her (including buses in interesting positions and being towed away). It seems a crime to chuck this lot in the bin. Any suggestions as to a suitable resting place for this lot?


----------



## Dickyboy (May 18, 2009)

May I suggest that you scan and post the pictures to this site?
The lists may be of interest to someone as well.
Just an Idea.....(Thumb)


----------

