# Did you ever have boot laces?



## Ian J. Huckin (Sep 27, 2008)

Seems to me the well dressed marine engineer never wore laces in his ER boots....was that your experience as well?


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## makko (Jul 20, 2006)

Good quality boots and good condition laces - Anything else was a trip hazard. Same with boiler suits - No cut off sleeves/legs, dangling pockets or frayed seams. All dangerous.
Rgds.
Dave


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## surfaceblow (Jan 16, 2008)

I always had laces on my ER boots. Some times they were not tied and the laces were stuck into uppers. It probably has to do with my foot coming out of boots while I was a youngster (most due to being to big to begin with). My parents would buy boots to big so you could grow into them. I had my foot come out of boots in the snow, while tank and bilge diving exercises were the foot came up but the boot was stuck in the mud. 

Joe


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## Ian J. Huckin (Sep 27, 2008)

makko said:


> Good quality boots and good condition laces - Anything else was a trip hazard. Same with boiler suits - No cut off sleeves/legs, dangling pockets or frayed seams. All dangerous.
> Rgds.
> Dave


Crikey Dave, what MN was that? I don't think they would have liked me.....(EEK)


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## JoK (Nov 12, 2006)

makko said:


> Good quality boots and good condition laces - Anything else was a trip hazard. Same with boiler suits - No cut off sleeves/legs, dangling pockets or frayed seams. All dangerous.
> Rgds.
> Dave


Pshaw, my coveralls all were short sleeved, but I also wore an uniform
jacket over it.


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## cubpilot (Aug 18, 2008)

so ian at last you have owned up to being the owner of those manky boots and boiler suits that had us all wondering what the stick was!!!!!!!!!!!


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## R58484956 (Apr 19, 2004)

A wartime sailor told me "do not wear shoelaces as if you have to go overboard the shoes could be a hindrance" never had shoelaces since that advice.


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## Satanic Mechanic (Feb 23, 2009)

Always wore bootlaces - I just hate the feeling of loose boots

Never big on cut offs, but sleeves always rolled up. Prefered to have the option of a sleeve for those more 'intense' steam moments- queen that I am.

Hard hats - just naw

Safety Specs -I started carrying these a few years ago in my breast pocket after getting a chemical splash in my eye. They are there if you need them and the modern ones are can look cool as well. Which is a great tip by the way, if you want people to wear safety equipment(PPE) make them comfortable, attractive and get a selection so they can choose ones they like. Can I recommend the Peltor Metaliks for that 'Engineroom Terminator' look


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## michael charters (Apr 4, 2010)

No boot laces in engine room boots. Slipped on and off, as lecky in and out of ER all watch. The stewards would have linched us if we wandered the alley way in oily boots.Also abandon ship they would have been jetesoned. Called ER slippers.Had trainers/Gym shoes for deck work and in cabins. no toe tectors them days/ nor ear protection.


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## Satanic Mechanic (Feb 23, 2009)

michael charters said:


> No boot laces in engine room boots. Slipped on and off, as lecky in and out of ER all watch. The stewards would have linched us if we wandered the alley way in oily boots.Also abandon ship they would have been jetesoned. Called ER slippers.Had trainers/Gym shoes for deck work and in cabins. no toe tectors them days/ nor ear protection.


Ear protection - no question for me, from day one I have worn it


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## Ian J. Huckin (Sep 27, 2008)

cubpilot said:


> so ian at last you have owned up to being the owner of those manky boots and boiler suits that had us all wondering what the stick was!!!!!!!!!!!


Aw shucks, been sussed! I was calling them to come for ages but the boilies and boots nowadays just don't give a damn.

Never wore laces as when I got called out, either as 2/E or C/E I wanted to hit the plates quickly. Also, a lot of winter NA trade in 50s built ore carriers left you feeling vulnerable.

Got a boot trapped in the crankcase of a 8KZ120/E once so just slipped my foot out and got an oily sock!

Drifting off Christmas Island once (waiting for phossie) and my boots just died of old age and abuse. So we had a proper burial at sea ceremony complete with weights, planks and flag (and the band played Waltzing Matilda!). It was very moving, in that we all moved to the bar afterwards.

Christening a new pair of boots was a real *****.......(Cloud)


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## makko (Jul 20, 2006)

Satanic Mechanic said:


> Which is a great tip by the way, if you want people to wear safety equipment(PPE) make them comfortable, attractive and get a selection so they can choose ones they like. Can I recommend the Peltor Metaliks for that 'Engineroom Terminator' look


I agree, a lot of the modern stuff is "attractive". I like the boiler suits with the reflective stripes.

I am sorry if people think I'm a bit stuffy on this theme but I take H&S extremely seriously. As SM has noted, it only takes a minor splash in order to lose your eyesight if you don't have safety glasses.

How many people lament not wearing ear protectors simply because they were "uncomfortable". The same with wearing the same kit day in, day out and then testicular cancer?

I will now bow out gracefully from this thread..............
Dave


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## chadburn (Jun 2, 2008)

Most Engineer's have feet like the platypus which meant keeping boots on without laces was not a problem and like other's have commented getting in and out of them quickly was a priority although I have just read a harrowing story in this Months "Sea Breezes" about a poor chap who left his boots behind and had to run across the deck (which was covered in barbed wire after the torpedo explosion had blown it on to the Deck). His feet were badly cut and he was burning due to the cargo of aviation spirit. It's quite a story of bravery and I would recommend the read of it. Of course the comments are right about Safety Apparel but people have to remember in yesteryear Owner's and the safety welfare of ship's crew's were very distant cousin's which is why most of us "oldies" have some asbestos related problem despite the Owner's knowing all along of the dangers of working with it.


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## gordy (Apr 18, 2008)

Remember being advised to get ER footwear with pegged on soles as the oil would rot the stitching? Well mine lasted only a few weeks before falling apart.
Doing a bit of brazing in the workshop, some of the molten metal fell inside my boot and luckily I had no laces, and managed to kick boot off quickly. Still ended up with a bad burn.
Ear defenders? None aboard in '66, so hear knackered now.
The North Sea safety attitude was a world away from my MN days. Hard hats, totectors, gloves, (hated them), and eventually mandatory safety specs.
Funny comment from drill crew when they were introduced. They said they were a pest because the mud kept getting on them !!!


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## Winebuff (Jan 11, 2010)

Always kept my boots laced up, hated them sloppy. Laces used to rot and usually replaced them with a bit of green/yellow earth wire or twine from the Casab's store.

Sleeves chopped off above the elbow as would not roll up and be uncomfortable and usually undone to the belly button - had a 6 pack in those days rather than todays bulge.

Soft toweling beany hat (sunhat) or cloth bandanna to keep sweat out of eyes.

God I'd forgotten what a sight i must have been.....

Should have taken more care with the ear defenders as now effected (see other threads ER Deafness)

Once got a face full of scavenge cleaning fluid (can't recall what it was but it hurt like H##l )when the pipe split. 

Oh happy days.

Peter Smith
74-84
Bank Line


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## waldziu (Jun 17, 2008)

Engine Room Slippers always loosely back laced after observing what happened when someone's right foot sliped under the bridle conection to the piston of a recip Pp and the toe tec failed.

I am and always will wear my saftey footware loose laced but now they stay parade ground shinny all week.


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## Satanic Mechanic (Feb 23, 2009)

People (read bp) get awfully carried away with PPE. If it actually gets used in anger something has gone very wrong. That not withstanding for me comfort is everything and I used to invest quite a bit in my own kit - until I discovered I could claim the company - anyhoo here is a list of the stuff I use:

Boiler Suit - open to navel, sleeves rolled up but not cut - just in case I need to use them. Company issue with reflective stripes and designed to hold the latest addition to my armoury-

Knee pads - how the hell I lived without these I don't know, guys if you do nothing else get a pair of these

Socks - Nato issue indestructable socks from Army Navy stores

Boxers - and as a martyr to 'The Chaffing' heavily powdered boxers at that. Prefer tighty whities when working with ammonia though!!!!

Hard hat - I only wear these if I really have to i.e lifting or when overhead work is going on - but I discovered this little baby
http://www.abbeypro.co.uk/chainsaw-headware/stein-kask-helmets/[email protected]

Highly ventilated and very light industrial climbing helmet - f-ing expensive but for a born 'leaker' like me a god send.

Safety specs: in my top pocket - Peltor Metaliks iridium blue 

Boots - I am using De Walts at the moment - I like ankle protection and a heel for use on ladders. Always laced tight.

Belt - military issue webbing belt with two carbiners and a torch holder attached and sometimes a small tool pack (hangover from days as a Cargo engineer when sheer laziness turned me into a walking tool kit)

Ear Muffs - peltor black and reds - nothing but the top protection for my lugs

In my pockets I always have - two 'vessel' terminal screwdrivers - slot and cross, one cabinet key, one whistle, 6" rule and taper gauge, note book , pen, 8" and 6" Ergo Bahco, Credit Card multimeter, LED lenser torch, extendable magnet, inspection mirror and a small set of lockpicks (only for shipbuilding yards - where they have a habit of locking there mistakes up)

Now that I have written all that down - its no bloody wonder my knees are bad(Jester)


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## MARINEJOCKY (Nov 25, 2007)

1st trip, 

full blue uniform worn from Northumberland to Skaramanga (greece) thanks to Mr. Ling in the head office. 

Then full white uniform including the white shoes in the first week thanks to the rather "witty" engineers who said I had to wear that to go visit a BP tanker in the other dry dock. cat whistles etc followed.

then found my home on the fiery kipper (gas tankers) and never looked back, everything from platform soled shoes painted with a big L & R on what turned out to be the wrong foot, Doctor Martins which started off real good but laces did not last long and remaining 4 months with no laces. 

Boiler suits, as light as possible, cut off at the knees and above the elbow, not bothered about buttons (never zippers and never elastic in the back) but a must have was a top breast pocket for the cig's and a back pocket for shifter and torch. Hong Kong made to measure were excellent for the first week and once that lesson was learnt I tried to keep one of those just for the super' coming onboard and later for when the owner surprised us. 

SM, yes it is no wonder you have sore knees, I bet you look like one of those American SWAT police officers with all of that gear, did nobody ever tell you about a whistle and a gofa, you whistle - they come, they go, they bring and they carry. 

Safety glasses, ear muff's and knee pads, what has the world come too. 

the best bit of gear we had were pink tee shirts with "I survived the Black Max" on the front and "I am one of Harry's Boy's" which only those from Houlders gas tankers will know what it means. 

... and one last thing SM, when with Ammonia have nothing tight on especially around the lower regions and make sure you have plenty of sea water around you, thankfully we had a very attractive female deck cadet who was very good at washing you down when purging the compressors and she will remain nameless as will the ship (*))

I had to laugh yesterday, there was a program on about the Queen Mary II and an engineer left the control room with a camera on him and yes he had a shifter in his back pocket and a torch in the pocket on the side of his leg. I guess nothing much changes


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## Satanic Mechanic (Feb 23, 2009)

MARINEJOCKY said:


> SM, yes it is no wonder you have sore knees, I bet you look like one of those American SWAT police officers with all of that gear, did nobody ever tell you about a whistle and a gofa, you whistle - they come, they go, they bring and they carry.
> 
> Safety glasses, ear muff's and knee pads, what has the world come too.
> 
> ...


SWAT team (Jester) I was actually thinking that as I wrote it or one of those equipment nuts you see in American militias. Its really not as bad as it sounds and the actual tools do vary depending on the job, the above is for shipyard inspections and it all fits in the pockets, I haven't quite reached the tactical vest stage - I have seen it though(EEK). 

The knee pads are entirely due to block inspections and the like - I discovered these pockets for them in my boiler suit knees and thought I would give them a go........ seriously MJ I don't know how I lived without them.

Whistle - again only really for yards and to get someones attention, I wouldn't say as an absolute fact but I think I have saved a few people some pretty nasty accidents with its use.

Earmuffs - its just a no brainer for me - I like my hearing, same safety glasses. Thing is though that I have them available - I don't actually wear them all the time, its when I judge them to be required, this is quite an important point as it means I actually judge each cir***stance rather than going in like as you say a SWAT team.

I defo come from the tight underwear when dealing with ammonia school of thought, but yes a fire hose was essential alas I make do with a west african AB


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## G0SLP (Sep 4, 2007)

On one of my first trips to sea, one of my fellow Engineers didn't wear laces in his boots - as a consequence I witnessed a dance known as the "Gas-Axe Shuffle", when a lump of rather hot (as in white-hot (EEK) ) metal got into his boot whilst he was wielding said gas-axe in anger (Jester)


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## Innes (Aug 9, 2010)

G0SLP said:


> On one of my first trips to sea, one of my fellow Engineers didn't wear laces in his boots - as a consequence I witnessed a dance known as the "Gas-Axe Shuffle", when a lump of rather hot (as in white-hot (EEK) ) metal got into his boot whilst he was wielding said gas-axe in anger (Jester)


Yep I've done that dance


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## johnb42 (Jun 1, 2009)

In my early days as 3rd Mate, whilst serving on a London Greek , I had the misfortune to be given a disciplinary Pool committee. This was at the time, a shameful experience for me and my family.
On the day of the "committee", I dressed in smart suit and tie and presented myself as a contrite young officer who had made a bad mistake whilst under the influence. Filled with trepidation I arrived at the Prescott Street pool to await my fate. 
In the waiting room I struck up a conversation with a felow miscreant (a Houlders engineer) also on a "committee". He, however, was scruffily dressed, wearing engine room boots with seizing wire for laces.


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## Ian J. Huckin (Sep 27, 2008)

In my last year as an Eng App I was "critisized" by the Eng. Super for not wearing boot laces. We were carrying out an emergency dry-docking on a 50s BISCO ore carrier, it was the end of winter and all us ER lads had been doing 6 on 6 off non-stop for over four months in the NA (Sept Isles - Glasgow etc). I was truly pissed off. But not as much as when the C/E tore me a new thingydo for using indicator cord for tying my boots up. So, screw it, never wore laces again. 

I have a picture of three of us down the bottom of the dry-dock. We were in our twenties, we looked 50!(Hippy)

Now I'm a site project manager re-building hydro electric power stations, I still don't wear laces!


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## Satanic Mechanic (Feb 23, 2009)

Having said that I like my boots tied tight, which is true - it has crossed my mind more than once if clogs would pass the safety rules.


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## Don Matheson (Mar 13, 2007)

Have an acid burn on my cheek from a battery explosion, safety glasses are the only reason I can see this today.
Boots for many years have worn nothing but Redwing or Jallotte rig boots as they offer great protection.
Years ago when ear muffs had been introduced to engine rooms I always wore them, stopped recently due to forced retirement, but they were not compulsory and could not get my donkeyman to wear them. Many years later I met him in Glasgow and he was suffering from bleeding in his ears, doctor was sure it was due to noise.

Don


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## Nick Balls (Apr 5, 2008)

Used gallatte work boots for years most excellent after they are broken in.
Knee pads a very good idea ! Too late for me but having tried some out they are brilliant! 
Not being an engineer ( Seemed like I was when I worked at sea) I wonder how many people are now wearing latex/neoprene disposable gloves these days? When I was a safety officer in the offshore world some engineers had started using these all the time. On the deck side the lads found them excellent for painting. The only trouble I used to have was over hard hat use in enclosed spaces. Total waste of time (the ordinary ones) We then got hold of some 'bump caps' that looked like a regular baseball hat . These proved very popular !


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## Ian J. Huckin (Sep 27, 2008)

*Rievaulx - Lloyd - No Laces*

Scanning some pics this morning and came across this one from 1972 on M.V. Rievaulx. Big lad on the right is Lloyd Housely, he was 4th at the time

***Note the boots***


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## Satanic Mechanic (Feb 23, 2009)

Nick Balls said:


> Used gallatte work boots for years most excellent after they are broken in.
> Knee pads a very good idea ! Too late for me but having tried some out they are brilliant!
> Not being an engineer ( Seemed like I was when I worked at sea) I wonder how many people are now wearing latex/neoprene disposable gloves these days? When I was a safety officer in the offshore world some engineers had started using these all the time. On the deck side the lads found them excellent for painting. The only trouble I used to have was over hard hat use in enclosed spaces. Total waste of time (the ordinary ones) We then got hold of some 'bump caps' that looked like a regular baseball hat . These proved very popular !


I started using latex surgical gloves a few years ago and in time made sure all my workshops were supplied with a box of them for ready use by anyone. Very good indeed. Funnily enough though I detest seeing Engineers wearing leather work gloves all the time,seem to forget how important it is to feel things.

The knee pads are just the greatest thing ever though - I was almost at the stage of refusing work that required me to kneel down such was the pain


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## Ian J. Huckin (Sep 27, 2008)

Satanic Mechanic said:


> I started using latex surgical gloves a few years ago and in time made sure all my workshops were supplied with a box of them for ready use by anyone. Very good indeed. Funnily enough though I detest seeing Engineers wearing leather work gloves all the time,seem to forget how important it is to feel things.
> 
> The knee pads are just the greatest thing ever though - I was almost at the stage of refusing work that required me to kneel down such was the pain


Hmmmmm, personally, the snap of latex gloves always makes my buttocks clench, and if I were to wear knee pads the guys I work with would accuse me of trying for promotion and would tell me to wipe my chin!!!(Jester)


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## Derek Roger (Feb 19, 2005)

Before I joined my first ship deep sea my father loaned me the money for my uniform which included 3 pairs of boiler suits and a pair of Engine room shoes .
The engineers would rib me about my "engine room shoes " all they wore was whatever they had that was oldest .

My shoes were very comfortable and cool wih a cork sole and little brass tacks to give good wear . 

I had them for a few years . Replaced the soles with leather in Calcutta twice and renewd the uppers once ( but they were still the same shoe ??? )


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## PAULD (Sep 6, 2006)

i used charlie band in mine


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## Lloyd Housley (Mar 30, 2008)

*Laces*

Well funny you should mention that but I used to get through them like nobody's business for whatever reason. So, I finally hit on using the strongest cord available and raided Chief Bearpark's indicator box for some cord. There was about 4 feet of it in there which I duly halved and threaded into the boots. Of course the bows stood up like Eric Morecombe' empire shorts and took a bit of hiding when old Chiefy came down to the botom plates and said "4O, hev ya seen ma last piece ay indicator cord, I canna do the kerds wi'out et!"



Ian J. Huckin said:


> Scanning some pics this morning and came across this one from 1972 on M.V. Rievaulx. Big lad on the right is Lloyd Housely, he was 4th at the time
> 
> ***Note the boots***


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## david freeman (Jan 26, 2006)

One 3 eng on a motor ship who became a super always wore dutch clogs for his watch keeping and crankcase inspections. No laces?


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## Ray Mac (Sep 22, 2007)

I believe in the 70s when the Egyptians were fighting the Libyans over some territory that one side did not tie their bootlaces, so they could scarper quicker[=P]:sweat:

Ray


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## chadburn (Jun 2, 2008)

BT, I think it was one of the Arab/ Israeli conflicts when the Egyptian's fled back across the Canal and left all their equipment behind, some of the broken Tanks are still there I believe.


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## submarine (Aug 18, 2008)

As a brand new 7E on ss Bendoran er shoes were a must have. Pegs, strap & buckle if I remember rightly. Lasted me OK. but different from engine works Vibrams with safety toes. You could rest steel plates on your toes to move your fingers. Apprentice logic ! Dave


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## Satanic Mechanic (Feb 23, 2009)

submarine said:


> As a brand new 7E on ss Bendoran er shoes were a must have. Pegs, strap & buckle if I remember rightly. Lasted me OK. but different from engine works Vibrams with safety toes. You could rest steel plates on your toes to move your fingers. Apprentice logic ! Dave



Oh oh that reminds me who can/could do this:

Start moving the valve with a wheel key, once it is free drop the wheelkey and catch it horizontally on you foot and let it balance there thus freeing your hand for valve duties. Once finished - flick your foot up and catch the wheelkey as it comes past. exit area and wink coolly at awestruck apprentices(Thumb)


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## Ray Mac (Sep 22, 2007)

chadburn said:


> BT, I think it was one of the Arab/ Israeli conflicts when the Egyptians fled back across the Canal and left all their equipment behind, some of the broken Tanks are still there I believe.


No it was the Egyptian Libyan conflict we were at anchor off Benghazi(Thumb) on the Lutetian. Transited the canal 2007 yes still their then.

Ray


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