# Ships GM question.



## jbo

I’d like to know if anyone can tell me the size of GM they can remember from any vessel they have sailed on.
If you could also tell me the type of vessel ie Tanker, Container, General Cargo etc and the condition she was in ie Ballast, part or full load etc etc.
Thanks 
JBO


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## Stephen J. Card

There is one ship that almost everyone here on here in SN.

How many have sailed in M.V. MEXNA ? 

Stephen


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## saudisid

*Gm*

It depended on [ General cargo ] what was loaded . A lot of steel and you were fighting to reduce it. Other times fighting to get a gm. remember when in City of Glasgow having to go into Jeddah homeward for bunkers to keep a + GM. We had about 12 inch gm then. When with UASC it was the other way always had about 1 M [ 39 inches ].
Too big and she was stiff to small and she was so tender.
Alan


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## rothesian

*gm's*

Hustler class container ships (124 TEUs )were best sailing with a GM of .5 of a metre


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## duquesa

Harwich BR train ferries had a C of G somewhere up on the boat deck


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## harry t.

*Trim and Stability*

This lady (see attached) was designed 30 feet shorter, at 431 ft. in length and 27 ft. loaded draft, than her two sisters. This made for a bit of a curse with the ships trim and stability when loading full cargoes from rail cars in St. John NB in the winter months. - Usually, the loading sequence would unexpectedly change on account of the rail cars and paperwork noting cargo weights going adrift. Therefore, if in doubt, i.e. when the final GM was calculated at less than a foot using only provisional figures on departing. We would have the tug stand by after clearing the port until we gathered speed and gave her the "dead man's roll" a couple of times with the wheel hard over each way - just to double check before setting off across the pond. This ship was by far the most tender and could give a new mate or master quite a fright hence a close eye on the weights. The chief would also take care with his daily oil transfers to the settling tanks when on a loaded passage. No one played silly buggers on that lady. Note; if the lady gives a double dip while on her beam-end, and takes about 25 or more seconds from the upright back to an upright position – you’ve got a problem.
The usual rule of thumb to maintain stability on the old tween deck type 10,000-ton cargo ship was to load one third of the weights in the tween decks and two thirds below, to avoid any worries.


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## dannic

jbo said:


> I’d like to know if anyone can tell me the size of GM they can remember from any vessel they have sailed on.
> If you could also tell me the type of vessel ie Tanker, Container, General Cargo etc and the condition she was in ie Ballast, part or full load etc etc.
> Thanks
> JBO


Stena Searunner class vessels, small roll-on roll-off, built in Korea had negative GM as built.
Early ones went in to have sponson tanks fitted, but still rolled like heck! Atlantic Prosper & Project an example. And we went across the Atlantic!
Dannic


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## soccerover

*Ray Harrop*

I sailed with BP Tankers in the 1950's - their 40,000 tonners had a loaded positive GM of about 60 inches if i remember correctly.

China Nav cargo ships 3,000 tonners (Shansi/Fengtien etc) loaded GM was about 16 to 18 inches (I think).

The exciting example I recall of GM and GM change was the long voyage of the famous Ben Line Steamers - their early 1960's vessels (beautiful ships - Ben Cruachan class) - the voyage I refer to was the non stop (except for Suez) Hong Kong fully loaded to London - the vessels left Hong Kong with a positive Gm of about 30 inches but as they were steam turbines and burning about 75 tons per day at 20+ kts (fuel coming out of the double bottoms) the ships, by the time they were going up the English Channel, were as tender as could be with a positive GM reduced to about 4-6 inches.


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## Kevin O'Neill

*Ships data for JB)*

Good morning JBO - just ted your request for information on GM - a Few years ago I managed an FPSO which started life as a tanker - Four Lakes of Premuda Group. I still have copies of the stability manual and from that details:

DWT 94255 on draft of 12.949 m
GM Ballast departure - drafts F5.04 A 10.204 - GM t 14.394m
As an FPSO Lightship GM 35.804m
As an FPSO full ballast ship GM 14.540m
AS an FPSO Fully loaded GM 6.632m (Draft 12.863 - displacement 99295mt)

Hope this is of use/makes sense - feel free to get in touch
Kevin


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## harry t.

*Stability*



harry t. said:


> The usual rule of thumb to maintain stability on the old tween deck type 10,000-ton cargo ship was to load one third of the weights in the tween decks and two thirds below, to avoid any worries.



On one of the few tween decker’s then operating in the 70’s we had been loading at several ports around the coast of Japan and had finally arrived to load at the charterers home port. Requesting an urgent meeting with their senior cargo super who had sent us the loading plans weeks earlier, it was pointed out the 3,000 tons of general cargo he proposed to load in the tween decks was unsatisfactorily as this equated to 50% top deck weight. He begged to differ, explaining the 3,000 tons he proposed to stow in the tween decks was only one third of the 9,000 tons of cargo. The fact 3,000 tons was half, or 50% of the 6,000-ton bottom weight didn’t register, – insisting he must reduce the tween deck weights before we proceeded further. Out came the Abacus/Soroban and in a flash the chap maintained the 30% tween deck weight was correct. It took a little more time to convince the man it was 50% of the lower hold weights and thus, was too dangerous to proceed. He finally redrew the plans. Later, on several occasions we had to shut off power to the winches and the heavy derrick, so as to impress upon the stevedores we had wanted the cargo stowed right out to the ships sides, and not just back against the bulkheads and outwards over the tank tops to the edges of the bilges – they clearly intended shoring everything off to the ships side with thousands of feet of 2x4 inch timbers or heavier – not much good for a Pacific crossing. Otherwise, a great trip, a long trip, later, the wee woman stated - ‘any more trips like that, don’t bother coming home’. Six months earlier, the owner wearing his 1946 demob suit, was pleading poverty on account our daily rate for the charter to south and east Africa was only £530 daily. Now, things had improved somewhat, £1850 daily plus £100 daily for the heavy derrick, until then, just a big ornament. In those days no travelling by land to or from any of the restricted ports by foreigners was permitted. George, the 4th officer was in his element when I met him at the station, relating how after he was stopped from boarding the train bound for Tokyo had found himself surrounded by a large party of giggling schoolchildren. The braver amongst them, just like little fish nibbling, pinching the dark hairs on his arms. He was a hairy curiosity in the land of the smooth skinned and clearly had enjoyed the experience.


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## Avraham Ariel

*Gm*

Do I have a GM story for you!
In 1970, Maritime Fruit Carriers’ (MFC) m/v Alaskacore was on her maiden voyage with full cargo of refrigerated seed potatoes from Saint John (NB) to Montevideo. Just out of Drammen Slip & Verkste of Norway, she was the fourth in a series of abt 10 reefers of ca 4900 GRT. I think MFC later on had acquired 6 of them. Alaskacore was their first, and as I said, it was her maiden voyage.
Soon after departure she was hit my moderate SW’ly winds and although her double bottom (DB) tanks were filled to capacity with bunkers and ballast, she developed a slight port list, which was increasing as a result of the wind and consuming bunkers.
When the list reached about 6 degrees, the (German) master became pretty nervous and ordered to pump ballast out of a port DB tank. The immediate result was a heavy fall to starboard, where the vessel settled at 12 degrees of list. The major casualty was the starboard gangway, which immediately found it’s way to Neptune’s palace. Luckily there were no human casualties. Immediate topping up all DB tanks saved the vessel.
I was Operations Manager for MFC at the time. The master reported the GM on departure from Saint John was 22 cm. I did not bother to ask him if it was positive or negative, I just fired him on the spot.


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## Stephen J. Card

Remember being told about the stability problems with that class. The worst condition was when full load bananas and the No. A Deck was the problem. See the photo. Quite obvious! Funny... in the attached photo shows the ALASKACORE with the missing starboard gangway. How many did she loose? !!!!

Joined LOCH MAREE in Panama after voyage from NZ bound Helsinki. Apples. The mate I was relieving told me that the stability was not that great and that on arrival Cristobal we were bunkering and also drums of lub oil on deck. Next morning the mate left and the boat with the lub oil arrived first. The care picked up the first two drums and the ship went a nice roll. Can't remember how much, it did not feel nice at all! I put the drums back down in the boat and told them to come back when we have full bunkers. No problem after that.


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## harry t.

The last two posts Re the gangways, brought to mind an incident on a loaded passage from Belle Isle in Labrador to Inistrahul in the north of Ireland. The mate had arrived on the bridge to relieve the 2nd mate to find the weather freshening fast and her awash in a following quarterly sea. Altering course, another point off, riding it nicely, he left her there until relieved by the 3rd mate at 8 am. But, whatever possessed the 3rd mate, before the old man got to the bridge, he decided to bring the lady back onto the original course. In doing so a couple of big seas caught her coming around, taking away the amidships gangway, stove in the surrounding fashion plates and carried away all of the port side hand rails on the prom deck. The ships main gangway stowed on the after deck beside a submarine periscope being returned to the Clyde for repair, both went overboard along with four refrigerated containers. All of this after-deck paraphernalia taking a passage caused considerable damage to the hatch coamings and bulwarks abreast Nos.4 & 5 hatches – all, in less than a minute. In the cold weather conditions in those latitudes, mild steel becomes brittle, hence so much structural damage.


This lady (see below) ‘took the biscuit’ stability wise, and boy, could she roll after being lengthened by 60 feet. She then went on to take her first cargo of newsprint and paper products homewards from Port Alfred to Glasgow. The resulting damage and subsequent claims after discharge took the wind out of everyone’s sails, tho’ fortunately, the owner held onto newsprint contract. With the deep tank ballast in No.1 hold, trim was always a problem, nor was it unusual to have to stop loading, when she’d suddenly fall over to be held-up, fortunately, by the quay. On more than one occasion the Technical Director had showed his displeasure with the master for the anticipated ‘unnecessary expenditure’, i.e., tank cleaning, that would be incurred, because he’d instructed the chief, against his wishes, to harden up his oil tanks and flood those empty, with sea water ballast. Of course, there never was any need to clean the tanks afterwards, the man had somehow conveniently forgotten oil and water don’t mix.


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## 8575

Stephen J. Card said:


> There is one ship that almost everyone here on here in SN.
> 
> How many have sailed in M.V. MEXNA ?
> 
> Stephen


Or for us oldies - mv Exna! All downhill after it went metric!


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## IRW

|After loading various lumber products from shingles to long 12x12s around Vancouver and Vancouver island. We Finished off at Crofton.. Deck timber was loaded to just under crane bases. When completed the stevedore had on a whistle all (4) cranes lift a load then land same. the time of the roll gave a GM. Mind you the sailing pilot had a a good laugh at our expressions as we left.


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## Stephen J. Card

Waighty said:


> Or for us oldies - mv Exna! All downhill after it went metric!



She was renamed MEXNA! 

I sat Masters up at Glasgow, but I could not do orals because I still needed another nine months sea time. I was thinking about joining Uiterwyk Line and their vessels were Liberian flag. I went to Reston Va, to sit their ticket and my sea time was good for them. I had done the Glasgow ticket and it was only about three weeks before the Liberian exam. I thought it would be breeze. The problems started when doing the stability papers. Everything was in Imperial! Oops! I told the examiner with the problem. He told me to 'convert' the measurements metric, do the calculations and then give the answer back in Imperial. No problem. 

Next problem was the Business & Law. Most was 'normal', but the Liberian Law was a bit different. No problem, you are not expected to know their rules. A copy of the book was on your table.


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## Engine Serang

Stephen, are you qualified?
I've always had my suspicions.


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## Stephen J. Card

Engine Serang said:


> Stephen, are you qualified?
> I've always had my suspicions.



Yes.  

Master Class 1. Class of Glasgow College of Nautical Studies. Best in the UK!


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## Engine Serang

Stephen J. Card said:


> Yes.
> 
> Master Class 1. Class of Glasgow College of Nautical Studies. Best in the UK!


Best indeed!
Could you say which other Colleges you compared Glasgow with and what criteria did you use to come up with your conclusion.


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## howardang

Engine Serang said:


> Best indeed!
> Could you say which other Colleges you compared Glasgow with and what criteria did you use to come up with your conclusion.


Hear Hear! Stephen, I suspect many people will give you an argument - me included! (Warsash Cadet and Certificates at Hull Nautical College).(Whaaa)

Howard


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## Varley

I am impressed E-S is agreeing with you Stephen although asking you for you data suggest he is bound on plagiarising.

Of course you are both wrong, despite my allegiances to Glasgow, Saudi Shields takes all biscuits.


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## Stephen J. Card

Engine Serang said:


> Best indeed!
> Could you say which other Colleges you compared Glasgow with and what criteria did you use to come up with your conclusion.



Well, they must have been good to get me through! 

We know that results from the examinations are either PASS or FAIL. You don't know if you had 70% or 100% or in the 69% or 0%. What I did not know was that DoT does give one result, they tell which college had the highest marks for Master's for the whole year and through the country. 1980, I won a prize from GCNS. I had the highest marks for that year. The prize? Two £10 vouchers from Boots.

Sure, unless you tried every college in the country you have no idea which is the best. I only went to two of them. I made a mistake to start Master's at the Tower Bridge Poly. I stayed for three weeks. Walked in the first day and the lecturer sat reading his Telegraph or Sun. Completely confused. The lecturer says your timetable was 'Tutorial'. So first day, nothing to do. You never saw a printed piece of paper. Everything had to be taken down in longhand from dictation. Took a whole hour to get one paragraph done! If you were checking for say, a stability calculation, go to the huge 'STABILITY'.... find your question number 1/78/65/7654. Then check your own work until you could see the result. Too ages and if any of the other 24 students, you had no chance. Three weeks were wasted. I called J&J and asked to go back on the ship. Eight months later, back to GCNS. 8 of us in the class. The course was 6 months. Two of us wanted to sit earlier so we stepped up the pace. The lecturers bombarded us with paper. Anyhow, we went up after 3 1/2 months and went up for the exam. So, for my experience, GCNS was a fine establishment and the lecturers were outstanding. Fine gentlemen. As far as Glasgow, well, I lived a total of almost 3 years there and loved every moment. Beautiful city and great people.


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## MMA

Stephen J. Card said:


> She was renamed MEXNA!
> 
> I sat Masters up at Glasgow, but I could not do orals because I still needed another nine months sea time. I was thinking about joining Uiterwyk Line and their vessels were Liberian flag. I went to Reston Va, to sit their ticket and my sea time was good for them. I had done the Glasgow ticket and it was only about three weeks before the Liberian exam. I thought it would be breeze. The problems started when doing the stability papers. Everything was in Imperial! Oops! I told the examiner with the problem. He told me to 'convert' the measurements metric, do the calculations and then give the answer back in Imperial. No problem.
> 
> Next problem was the Business & Law. Most was 'normal', but the Liberian Law was a bit different. No problem, you are not expected to know their rules. A copy of the book was on your table.


I did Masters at Ashley Down Tech College, Nav Dept in Bristol (exam in Cardiff) and one of my fellow 'students' worked for Tradax under Liberian flag. He too sat the Liberian Master's ticket at Lloyd's Register head office in London, then followed that with sitting the UK version. Tradax said he'd get the Master's job whichever one he passed - he passed both but the Liberian one seemed to consist entirely of written papers with some multi-choice thrown in, including Rule of the Road. He never mentioned the law side of things though.


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## Stephen J. Card

MMA said:


> I did Masters at Ashley Down Tech College, Nav Dept in Bristol (exam in Cardiff) and one of my fellow 'students' worked for Tradax under Liberian flag. He too sat the Liberian Master's ticket at Lloyd's Register head office in London, then followed that with sitting the UK version. Tradax said he'd get the Master's job whichever one he passed - he passed both but the Liberian one seemed to consist entirely of written papers with some multi-choice thrown in, including Rule of the Road. He never mentioned the law side of things though.


 
Right. All written answers with some multiple choice. The thing is the vast amount of questions. On a DOT paper you might have seven or eight questions and you must answer four or five. The Liberian 'paper' might only one question on the paper. If multiple choice there have several questions. The big difference, there were a stack of papers.... about 150 papers and you had to answer all. There was no time limit. The stack of papers were mixed between subjects. The papers sat on the examiners desk. You could no look through them. Go to the desk, pick up the paper, turn it over and proceed to answering. After three our four hours you might want to take a break, your choice. Finish the paper and you could leave. Come back an hour or more or even come back tomorrow. Your choice. I was told that the usual exam might take five days. If you wanted three weeks, that was fine too. I started in the morning at 9 and I stopped at 5. Back to the hotel, right next door, and bright in the morning to start again. I finished the work at the end of the second day. Three would have been easier, but I wanted to get away and fly home.

Thinking back, DOT papers might be hit or miss. If you could not answer a question you would loose a lot of marks. Liberian exam, when you went over perhaps 400 questions, the examiner could tell if you were good or just wasting time. Orals... say for Rules of the Road, you make a mess on one question and you might get thrown out. The Liberian method might be the most useful way to test your knowledge. 

Have a look at the US Coat Guard examinations. They are all multiple choice and by LAW, ALL of the questions that might be asked in the exams MUST be published! You can find a huge book with all of the questions. You can study the book and then take a chance. I am not certain is the system work well or not. Perhaps some of the SN gang will tell what they did.

Stephen


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## Stephen J. Card

My Liberian Cert shows the EXAM number. If you had a UK cert and you want to have a Liberian you could and their certs are required on their ships. Everyone knows this. Say if, and I sure hope not, have a mishap, grounding or collision. It is come to an inquest and you have a UK certificate, the DOT will be advised and you might end up loosing BOTH tickets.

If you have done your Liberian ticket by Liberian examination, you might loose the Liberian ticket but they will not search you out from the DOT. 

Didn't the Second Mate in the ELWOOD MEAD loose his Liberian ticket (with Liberian exam) and was able to go back to sea with his UK ticket? Or something along these lines.


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## Pilot mac

To get my Panama ticket I just had to have my British ticket witnessed by a 'Notary Public' and then the difficult bit, the medical. I had only ever had the old pool medical which was pretty basic to say the least, the Panama version was pages long and asked for xrays, samples etc etc etc. Took it to my GP and he filled it in in about 10 minutes which was good enough for them.

regards
Dave


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## John Cassels

For joining the Burmah Legacy 1980 , needed a Liberian Master's ticket but don't remember any exams , medicals etc. Company ( Denholms) arranged ecerything
and ticket arrived in the post just before I left home.


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## Stephen J. Card

John, yes if you have a ticket the Liberians will give you on of theirs. So no problem. In my case I had a Mate FG and Masters written part. No enough sea time to do the orals. However, my sea time was good for Liberian cert so I sat for their exams. A year later I did UK Master's orals and it all finished. Yes, the Liberian do require the medical. Not that strict at all.

Good friend needed a Panamanian Master's ticket. Went to New York, paid the fee etc. A few days he had the ticket. Back in his hotel he found he has a Panamanian CHIEF ENGINEER's ticket. Went back to get the correct ticket. He had to pay another fee to get Master's ticket, but he was able to keep the CHENG's ticket!


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## harry t.

John Cassels said:


> needed a Liberian Master's ticket but don't remember any exams ,


The owner arranged for me to meet the examiner in Dubai. Over a coffee we discussed current affairs, when on my way, he got me to sign a form, produced a Panamanian certificate, and that was that.


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## duquesa

*Ships GM question*



Stephen J. Card said:


> John, yes if you have a ticket the Liberians will give you on of theirs. So no problem. In my case I had a Mate FG and Masters written part. No enough sea time to do the orals. However, my sea time was good for Liberian cert so I sat for their exams. A year later I did UK Master's orals and it all finished. Yes, the Liberian do require the medical. Not that strict at all.
> 
> Good friend needed a Panamanian Master's ticket. Went to New York, paid the fee etc. A few days he had the ticket. Back in his hotel he found he has a Panamanian CHIEF ENGINEER's ticket. Went back to get the correct ticket. He had to pay another fee to get Master's ticket, but he was able to keep the CHENG's ticket!


Many moons ago I went along to the Panamanian embassy in Manhattan to get my Panamanian ticket ($10). I went with the Ch.Engineer and the Ch.Steward. Back on board and checking our new tickets over a beer, found that the Ch.Steward's was "Chief Steward (Steam & Diesel)".


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## Varley

Perhaps they had tasted his fare?


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## Engine Serang

Probably we all have sailed with Mates who were not sound on GM, BM, GZ and TPI. Similarly Engineers who were flaky on blowing down a gauge glass or the finer points of the 15ppm meter, but these were the exception.

I still get the sweats, 43 years later, sitting in the waiting room waiting to be called in for Orals by the Examiner, Bob Barr. Very few Engineers breezed through the written exams and the Orals, bullsh1t baffles brains but not in BOT/DTI examinations.


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## OilJiver

Almost 40 years since similar sweats when up for Orals @ Hull. Though DTI Examiner there had a reputation for being even handed. (Unlike his allegedly fearsome colleague on the Tyne).

So cannily enough, all the guys who’d studied at Shields, all came down to Hull for Orals. And consequently, local Examiner inundated by numbers.

Solution? Ncl Examiner comes down to help out. Candidates split 50:50 and I was one of those to have a nice chat with the visitor. (Thanks Shields guys!).

Through the wringer alright, but anyway, only went and passed me! Could have kissed him!


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## saudisid

OilJiver said:


> Almost 40 years since similar sweats when up for Orals @ Hull. Though DTI Examiner there had a reputation for being even handed. (Unlike his allegedly fearsome colleague on the Tyne).
> 
> So cannily enough, all the guys who’d studied at Shields, all came down to Hull for Orals. And consequently, local Examiner inundated by numbers.
> 
> Solution? Ncl Examiner comes down to help out. Candidates split 50:50 and I was one of those to have a nice chat with the visitor. (Thanks Shields guys!).
> 
> Through the wringer alright, but anyway, only went and passed me! Could have kissed him!


Could you be on about to Captain Diston. He was a gent. Always opened the door before he threw you out.

One story about him a guy was up for Second Mates after about 15 mins says Diston I am going to close my eyes. If you are still there when I open them the only thing I can do is give you 6 months sea time. Send the next one in.

I had him for Masters Orals twice. First time he passed me but I did not get writens before they ran out. On second time his first comment was when are you going to get writens. Spent the next 30 mins talking about the state of the world. He asked me one question. Told me half the answer then said " Its Beer Time " go on you have passed. When I did pass [ good attendance ] the clerk took my Exn 16 to him to sign. Came back and said he wants to see you. I went in and he is sat his deck pipe blowing smoke. say Diston " Well done for not giving up "


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## OilJiver

Apologies Sid.

I know we should be on the Bridge, but Serang is responsible for deflection elsewhere.

I was referring to Oral exam at Hull for, _Certificate of Competency as Second Class Engineer of a Motorship._

But were you not meaning _Captain Dyson_ (as opposed Diston)? He had a fine reputation and sounds like the man you describe.


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## saudisid

OilJiver said:


> Apologies Sid.
> 
> I know we should be on the Bridge, but Serang is responsible for deflection elsewhere.
> 
> I was referring to Oral exam at Hull for, _Certificate of Competency as Second Class Engineer of a Motorship._
> 
> But were you not meaning _Captain Dyson_ (as opposed Diston)? He had a fine reputation and sounds like the man you describe.


The Examiner for Masters and Mates in Hull in the 70s was John Diston. When I first went up for Masters with him I was an hour late going in as things had happened. i went in and after about an hour the clerk brought in his afternoon cuppa. Diston says to me do you mind if Captain Morgan had his tea here. When Tom Morgan walked in Diston says to him " You were a right B when you were Master. Lad from Ellermans here and hes been telling me all about you. I had never sailed with Tom Morgan. All in all he was gent. Had his ways but if you knew them ok


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## Engine Serang

In the 70's the Examiners Clerk was Cousins, I think Len or Les Cousins and he could work out your sea-time just by looking at you. I was more afraid of him than the Examiner.


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## Varley

I didn't think you were Turkish, E-S, and here you have given the lie to being young.

Written stuff for R/O was a relative breeze after failing A levels, as was fixing the faulted gear (although when faulting one myself during the course clever clogs did manage to fry an important bit he didn't mean to). Morse was different. I was given a retest on the day of the practical. On managing to achieve the required 15/20 words per minute at the second attempt the examiner said "Well why didn't you do that the first time". 

Our tickets were meant to be endorsed at 6 months 1 year and 2 years. Not really important when sailing on a British ship as the Discharge book gave the same information. I got the 6 month signed off (Mr. Jardine in Liverpool) and, when working part of one leave out of the London docks got my 2 years signed off by Harry Guilder, something of a character (as the tea boy I was useful in holding the surveyors hand as Harry insisted on a tech being in attendance. Never bothered with the two year. I cannot presently put my hands on my Liberian certificate to see if I am qualified for both steam and diesel driven radio rooms.


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## saudisid

Engine Serang said:


> In the 70's the Examiners Clerk was Cousins, I think Len or Les Cousins and he could work out your sea-time just by looking at you. I was more afraid of him than the Examiner.


Eng Serang
You may well be right about the Engine Clerk but the Masters and Mates clerk in the early 70's was George. He was relived by a woman mid 70's


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## Basil

Recollect a colleague who'd been a marine architect trying to explain metacentric height etc to me. Don't think I ever actually understood it. (Whaaa)


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## OilJiver

saudisid said:


> The Examiner for Masters and Mates in Hull in the 70s was John Diston. When I first went up for Masters with him I was an hour late going in as things had happened. i went in and after about an hour the clerk brought in his afternoon cuppa. Diston says to me do you mind if Captain Morgan had his tea here. When Tom Morgan walked in Diston says to him " You were a right B when you were Master. Lad from Ellermans here and hes been telling me all about you. I had never sailed with Tom Morgan. All in all he was gent. Had his ways but if you knew them ok


Nice story Sid, thanks.

Your man sounds very much like the same gent I’m thinking of. So maybe I have the name wrong. (Long time since etc).

As a 16 year old when first going to Posterngate to get registered etc, I thought the place a bit foreboding. 
Anyhow, at the time, DB numbering was in transition from R to UK prefix and I was given one of the earlier UK numbers. Was pretty pleased with the allocated number though, & spent about a year after trying to do Sean Connery impersonations.


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## China hand

I saw a TV program a few years back (I think it was BBC) about a lost container ship in heavy weather. The erudite gentleman in front of the board said that the righting lever was something the Captain used to keep the boat straight. If he put it in the wrong place there could be problems. Something to do with GM.


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## Stephen J. Card

Try YouTube. Several good clips 'stability'. Two or three are EXCELLENT. Others are so bad the lecturers should be sacked! Good graphics too.


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## MMA

Stephen J. Card said:


> Right. All written answers with some multiple choice. The thing is the vast amount of questions. On a DOT paper you might have seven or eight questions and you must answer four or five. The Liberian 'paper' might only one question on the paper. If multiple choice there have several questions. The Liberian method might be the most useful way to test your knowledge.
> 
> Have a look at the US Coat Guard examinations. They are all multiple choice and by LAW, ALL of the questions that might be asked in the exams MUST be published! You can find a huge book with all of the questions. You can study the book and then take a chance. I am not certain is the system work well or not. Perhaps some of the SN gang will tell what they did.
> 
> Stephen


Thanks for the information Stephen. I very much doubt I could pass anyone's tickets these days, the old grey matter probably isn't up to it! I shall search out the US Coastguard exam questions and see what sort of questions they get.

Added subsequently - I've found the USCG site for exams and it appears very thorough. Surprisingly I found I could answer most of the 'free' questions, so brain works after all!


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## Stephen J. Card

MMA said:


> Thanks for the information Stephen. I very much doubt I could pass anyone's tickets these days, the old grey matter probably isn't up to it! I shall search out the US Coastguard exam questions and see what sort of questions they get.


Was there a time when your ticket was 'valid' for life, not this revalidation every 5 years.

When you find the Coastguard exam on www, please let us know. We can have a bit of fun!

Stephen


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## Engine Serang

China hand said:


> I saw a TV program a few years back (I think it was BBC) about a lost container ship in heavy weather. The erudite gentleman in front of the board said that the righting lever was something the Captain used to keep the boat straight. If he put it in the wrong place there could be problems. Something to do with GM.


Probably a Sin Theta ( Sin ϑ ) in there somewhere.


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## Stephen J. Card

Engine Serang said:


> Probably a Sin Theta ( Sin ϑ ) in there somewhere.



Yes, and we are happy when that angle of list is LESS than 15 degrees!


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## dannic

OilJiver said:


> Almost 40 years since similar sweats when up for Orals @ Hull. Though DTI Examiner there had a reputation for being even handed. (Unlike his allegedly fearsome colleague on the Tyne).
> 
> So cannily enough, all the guys who’d studied at Shields, all came down to Hull for Orals. And consequently, local Examiner inundated by numbers.
> 
> Solution? Ncl Examiner comes down to help out. Candidates split 50:50 and I was one of those to have a nice chat with the visitor. (Thanks Shields guys!).
> 
> Through the wringer alright, but anyway, only went and passed me! Could have kissed him!


Was in front of Mr. Clarke in Newcastle, early 80's, Class II Motor, failed as just been made redundant, went next month after much work and good writtens, as soon as I walked in knew had failed again.
So third go down to Hull, examiner noted I had some experience of the exam and I walked out 20 minutes later with my certificate!
.
Dannic


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## Stephen J. Card

Up for Mate's in Glasgow. One candidate was giving us all 'gen' on how to pass writtens and orals. He had lots of experience. Had to have had. He must have failed about half a dozen attempts! Lunch time at the DTI canteen. At least a dozen of us in the line with the tray. 'George' was giving one of his 'lectures' and quite loudly. We were trying to shut him off. The gentleman in front of 'George' was the EXAMINER! We knew who he was but 'George' didn't. Twit. I don't think 'George' passed at the 6th attempt either!


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## OilJiver

dannic said:


> So third go down to Hull, examiner noted I had some experience of the exam and I walked out 20 minutes later with my certificate!
> 
> Dannic


There was a wine bar in/near Posterngate around that time Dannic. Must have been the closest hostelry to the Marine Office, because I went directly in there after being given the same news as you!

Bar run by offhand early 80s posers, begrudgingly serving beer (expensive bottled) in half pint glasses only - would never go in such a place in other cir***stances. But I guess sometimes you can make exceptions. Hope you had time to celebrate a little after your pass also.


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## harry t.

*GM – Theoretical Stability, good practice and carelessness.*



Stephen J. Card said:


> Try YouTube. Several good clips 'stability'. Two or three are EXCELLENT. Others are so bad the lecturers should be sacked! Good graphics too.


On a coastwise passage with relieving deck and engineering officers, the ship had arrived that morning and was expected to sail again that evening, but there was a problem. On the chief officer’s ‘hand over notes’, he had left instructions to insist on full FW, bunkering all of the F.O. DB’S, hardening the settling tanks, ballasting and pressing up the deep tanks before completion of discharge at that port. The technical department was concerned the bunkers and barge would cost more at this port and had got the builders naval architects to double check the chief officer’s calculations. In the meantime, he had been brought back from his leave to further explain these instructions, but the builders two naval architects had already won the argument. The relieving captain then insisted the chief officer stay for the short passage to the next port. He refused, and was told by the owners, menacingly, to ‘go home, and await their further instructions’. That evening he got an urgent telephone call from the owners, - the lady was now on her “beam ends”, in neutral equilibrium. Two tugs ordered on departure were holding her hard to the quay, as she just fell over when they let the after ropes go. As she heeled, one of the mast trucks had crashed through a window of Ranks flour mill. It later transpired the shipbuilder’s men had used the metacentric height from their drawings, on the light ship draft, not from the actual ship draft as per the chief officer’s calculations.


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## Avraham Ariel

*I salute that mate.*

I am told only few like him exist nowadays.
That story reminds me of the poem THE MATE that I framed on my office wall when I was a chief Officer in the 1950s. Colleagues can find it on the web by googling "If the ship begins to roll" in inverted commas.
It was adopted by many individuals and groups.
For example see:
http://pmma2006.blogspot.com/2010/11/call-mate.html

Does anybody know who the author was?


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## harry t.

Avraham Ariel said:


> That story reminds me of the poem THE MATE that I framed on my office wall when I was a chief Officer


Hello Avraham, The poem is the “Fall Guy” (Anonymous Kings Point Alumnus) from a book - A Doghouse Tale, by Bert Oldenhuis. 
- further to the earlier post;

The C/O re-joined in Glasgow, no doubt he was surprised to find his cabin full to busting with dignitaries. The port captain had been deputised to read out the ‘charge sheet’, one item only, two gangs working No.2 hatch paid double time (a minimum of 4 hours pay each) to retrieve a few mail bags that had dropped through the un-butted ends of some bundled coffin boards weeks earlier. After a pause, the mate reminded those present the ship had loaded at seventeen US and Canadian Great Lake ports, not counting diversions on account of a national strike in Canada before arriving in Glasgow, where she discharged a large consignment of precious metals and the largest consignment of mail ever to cross the Atlantic. For by the profit there was the free publicity and not as much as a thank you from the owners – ‘so what’s this *****ing about?’. The port super later admitted it was at the owner’s insistence, he gives the chief officer “a dressing down”, - to put him in his place. The following voyage, the C/O was ‘kicked upstairs’.


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