# Titanic, Magdalena, but what was the third?



## Mjroots (Mar 10, 2009)

Three ships built by Harland & Wolff were lost on their maiden voyages. Titanic in 1912 and Magdalena in 1949, but what was the other ship. All I know is that it was before 1949, as Magdalena was the third of the three.


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## Mjroots (Mar 10, 2009)

OK, panic over! It was RFA Dinsdale in 1942, though that was not an accidental loss as she was torpedoed and sunk by the Italian submarine Cappelini.


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## Mjroots (Mar 10, 2009)

The reason I was asking was that I wanted to incorporate the info into an article I was writing on Wikipedia about Magdalena.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RMS_Magdalena_(1948)


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## Ron Stringer (Mar 15, 2005)

Mjroots said:


> The reason I was asking was that I wanted to incorporate the info into an article I was writing on Wikipedia about Magdalena.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RMS_Magdalena_(1948)


Think you might want to revisit that Wiki item - a little editing is in order. Your statement *"she was then the third-largest ship built in a British shipyard"* is a very long way from the truth. I haven't done any research into the exact number but British yards built many ships larger than the Magdalena before the 1940s.

Perhaps the reference to maiden voyage that appears in your posts above should also be included in your Wiki article?


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## Mjroots (Mar 10, 2009)

I'd come to that realisation independently of your post. Now clarified, the third-biggest being built _at the time of launch_, not the third-biggest ever built.


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## Tmac1720 (Jun 24, 2005)

I'd go back to the drawing board if I was you *Magdalena* wasn't even anywhere near the third biggest vessel built by H&W at the time of her launch... she was well down the H&W size list never mind any other UK shipyard. (POP)


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## gdynia (Nov 3, 2005)

if you dont know bro no one else will
im sad you never got a Oscar


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## Tmac1720 (Jun 24, 2005)

Sorry to be pedantic but I think you will find that RFA Dinsdale was on her third voyage near Freetown when she was torpedoed by the Italian submarine.


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## Mjroots (Mar 10, 2009)

According to Michell & Sawyer, Dinsale was on her maiden voyage. As for Magdalena, we go by what the sources say.


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## Mjroots (Mar 10, 2009)

Tmac, you misread the sentence. She was the third largest ship being built in UK at the time of her launch, not the third largest ever built by H&W.


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## Tmac1720 (Jun 24, 2005)

All I can do is quote the H&W archive records which state:

Launched 21st October 1941 as Empire Norseman transferred to RFA as Dinsdale 29th October 1941 and completed 11th April 1942. Ocean class oil tanker 8214 Gross Tons.

Delayed leaving Belfast due to sand in main engine lub oil system.

Depart Belfast 22nd April 1942 in ballast for Point-A-Pierre Trinidad via Freetown.

21st May 1942 departs Trinidad for Port Elizabeth and Durban

31st May torpedoed off St Paul's Rocks and sank the following day 1st June 1942. 

As for Magdalena being the third largest ship being built during the same period (March '47 - Feb' 49.) In H&W alone Pretoria & Edinburgh Castle, both 28705 gross tons launched August/October '47, Thorshavet 17881 gross tons launched June '47, Bloemfontein Castle 18400 gross tons launched August '49 all exceed Magdalenas' tonnage. I am sure in other UK yards vessels exceeding Magdalena's gross tonnage of 17547 were under construction perhaps another SN member would be able to confirm this.


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## Cisco (Jan 29, 2007)

So how do you define 'maiden voyage'?
In the case of a liner the entire voyage out and back? In Magdalena's case UK to BA and back.
In the case of a tramping tanker 'out and back' could take 10 years or more... if she ever came back at all. 'Dinsdale' was carrying her first cargo and if her call at Freetown counted as the end of her maiden voyage then Titanic's maiden voyage ended at Southampton....

Cisco... pedant in chief...


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## John Dryden (Sep 26, 2009)

Can of worms there Cisco but I,d have thought a maiden voyage is from port A to B as a working ship.


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## Tmac1720 (Jun 24, 2005)

Agreed John a can of worms indeed.. I would tend to agree with you the first voyage as a "working" ship should be her maiden voyage. Just to split hairs in Titanic's case her voyage to Southampton was "in ballast" as it was really a positioning voyage. It's arguable therefore her first "working" voyage was Southampton to Cherbourg which she successfully completed. Second voyage therefore Cherbourg to Queenstown, and so on. We could argue this point ad infinitum but "you pays your money and you takes your choice"


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## stan mayes (Jul 22, 2006)

During the war I sailed in two newly built ships.
Cape Howe Lyle Co - from Glasgow - 5th February 1943 to 10th May 1943.
Neritina - Anglo Saxon Pet.Co -from Glasgow -7th November 1943 to 1st May 1944.. until our return to the UK we regarded them as being on their maiden voyage..
A number of newly built ships were sunk during the war -they are recorded as
'sunk during maiden voyage'.
Stan


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## TommyRob (Nov 14, 2010)

It would be a great shame if the romantic notion of maiden voyage were to be the subject of close scientific specification. I think Stan has it - if the crew believe it to be the maiden voyage then that's what it is!

Tom


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## Tmac1720 (Jun 24, 2005)

Good idea Tom, I think we couldn't do any better than let Stan have the last word. (Thumb)


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## R58484956 (Apr 19, 2004)

Was their some sort of mystery about the fate of the* Magdelana *??
I saw somewhere fate of "M" is best not to discuss !!!!


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## surfaceblow (Jan 16, 2008)

I have to agree with Stan having sailed on a number of new vessels including the Maiden Voyage and having to prepare voyage reports. The voyage number does not change after each leg of the voyage, the same goes for the Articles the crew does not sign off and on again each time the ships enters Port. Most of the time voyage numbers and Articles change when the vessel returns back to its starting point. 

There are always exceptions like Tramping and Coast Wise vessels. I sailed with one company that had continuous articles for a year, but they would break articles after a crew member was injured to stop the maintenance and cure payments. 

Joe


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## Tmac1720 (Jun 24, 2005)

Not really a mystery as such, at the time rumour was rife within H&W that Royal Mail had made an error by insisting that further superstructure be added to the original design giving her a tendency to being top heavy. The cir***stances of her actual loss also gave rise to much speculation that it may have been a rather fortunate accident which rid Royal Mail of a possible "white elephant." The investigation into the loss did not identify any particular cause or individual to blame for the accident but nevertheless it didn't prevent the lurid stories doing the rounds. (Read)


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## R58484956 (Apr 19, 2004)

Thanks Tmac for the explanation.


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