# Man Overboard



## jimthehat

Hi,If someone falls overboard from a balcony or anon deck are they likely to be sucked in to the ships props?

jim


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## signalman

Try it and let us know how you get on.


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## trotterdotpom

I assume the propeller is pushing the water away from itself so think it would do the same thing to a body. That is, of course, assuming that having been dumb enough to fall overboard, the person isn't also dumb enough to land right on top of the propellor and end up like a hamburger.

John T


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## ART6

trotterdotpom said:


> I assume the propeller is pushing the water away from itself so think it would do the same thing to a body. That is, of course, assuming that having been dumb enough to fall overboard, the person isn't also dumb enough to land right on top of the propellor and end up like a hamburger.
> 
> John T


But the prop is essentially "screwing" itself through the water, so the water is flowing through it. Therefore I would think that if someone fell overboard and was not pushed away by the wake then there would be an excellent chance of their ending up in the prop. I suspect that the reason why it doesn't happen when people fall overboard is the latter effect, not the prop pushing them away.


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## trotterdotpom

ART6 said:


> But the prop is essentially "screwing" itself through the water, so the water is flowing through it. Therefore I would think that if someone fell overboard and was not pushed away by the wake then there would be an excellent chance of their ending up in the prop. I suspect that the reason why it doesn't happen when people fall overboard is the latter effect, not the prop pushing them away.


I bow to your superior knowledge Art. Hopefully, next time it happens to me, the wake saves me from the maelstrom in the propellor.

John T


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## BobClay

I've wondered about that myself. Perhaps the prop could be doing you a favour if nobody saw you go over. The thought of treading water as the ship disappears is quite grim.


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## tiachapman

yes grim indeed but it has happened and he was picked up by another cruise ship after 2 hours.


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## BobClay

Well make no mistake I like happy endings.


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## DURANGO

How about the 2nd mate lost overboard the British Monarch in the Pacific in the mid 50,s


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## trotterdotpom

A passenger went overboard from SA Vaal, somewhere around the Canaries, and they back tracked and picked him up several hours later. He was in a bit of a mess. A 2nd Mate I sailed with was there at the time and he told me that when they got him back aboard they had to lock him in the hospital because there were people after him. Funny that.

John T


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## jimthehat

DURANGO said:


> How about the 2nd mate lost overboard the British Monarch in the Pacific in the mid 50,s


Did they ever find him?
The master of my first ship (Maplebank) disappeared overboard mid pacific on passage from panama to brisbane.He was last seen by the 2/0 just after midnight and could not be found by his tiger at about 0630,so the mate organised a search then turned the ship round and as far as i can remember we steamed back for twice the time since he had been last seen,we never found him,
there is quite a little story attached to this plus the result of the coroners enquiry in brisbane,
jim


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## Hugh MacLean

jimthehat said:


> Did they ever find him?
> jim


They did indeed.

On June 9th 1957, second officer Douglas Wardrop fell overboard from his ship BRITISH MONARCH as it sailed across the Pacific towards Japan. He was not missed until 3.5 hours later, when the ship turned and sailed about 100 miles along its former course before rescuing him. He spent 9 hours in the sea. Lucky man indeed.

Regards
Hugh


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## John Rogers

I read last week that a woman fell overboard last week from a cruise ship, she was found two days later by a fishing boat off of Japan.


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## ART6

trotterdotpom said:


> I bow to your superior knowledge Art. Hopefully, next time it happens to me, the wake saves me from the maelstrom in the propellor.
> John T


When the sharks will eat you. If it's any satisfaction it is only the young sharks with healthy teeth that will eat you as you are, because the older ones prefer their meat minced.



John Rogers said:


> I read last week that a woman fell overboard last week from a cruise ship, she was found two days later by a fishing boat off of Japan.


And used for bait?

Sorry. I'll get my coat!


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## Chris Isaac

A lady passenger was overheard asking an officer if sharks would eat you whole if you fell over the side.
"No madam, they bite round that part!" was the reply.


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## Dartskipper

Closer to home, a female passenger was lost overboard in the River Dart from the Pride of Paignton in the late 1960's, possibly '67 or '68. It happened near the Anchor Stone, downstream from Greenway Pier, in the deepest part of the river. She was travelling alone. I don't remember if her body was found, and it was assumed to be a deliberate act. There is a local legend about the "River Dart claims a heart every year," which has an element of truth, sadly.

Roy.


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## ART6

Chris Isaac said:


> A lady passenger was overheard asking an officer if sharks would eat you whole if you fell over the side.
> "No madam, they bite round that part!" was the reply.


Oh FFS I have just spilled three fingers of good whiskey in my lap reading that!

(Applause)(Applause)


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## spongebob

If you went through a rotating propellor , would you get giddy?

Bob


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## John Dryden

Used to fish for shark off the stern with a half inch rope,a meat hook and a chunk of meat while underway.We usually caught something and never lost one in the prop.Having said that you wouldn,t want to go over the side midships and scrape the barnacles straight into the mincer!


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## Stephen J. Card

ART6 said:


> Oh FFS I have just spilled three fingers of good whiskey in my lap reading that!
> 
> (Applause)(Applause)



You want another?

Big Bad Wolf: "Little Red Riding Hood, I'm going to eat you!"

Little Red Riding Hood: @"Eat. Eat. Eat! That is all I ever hear around these days. Doesn't anyone ever F*** any more?"


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## Stephen J. Card

The bad news with the cruise ships... if you fall over the side... from a balcony, you will come down close to the side and you will go down, perhaps several feet down. When you are on the way comming back to the surface the ship will have gone past you will be right in the flow of the screws.

Do you think it would be better to jump off the stern, that is going to HURT! Look at those duck bill sterns. You will land onto hard steel. 

Best stay inside at the bar!


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## spongebob

Look up thread titled "Port line drama" on page 179 of "Ship research " topic and dated 20/12 2007.
This thread started by me mistook the ship for a Port Line vessel but others corrected this to the "British Monarch".
Makes the blood run cold to think of this man overboard situation and the fortitude to wait so long for rescue. Great faith in your fellow crewmen.

Bob


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## BobClay

Great story. You have to wonder about yourself in that situation and how you'd react. Probably best not to test yourself, and like Stephen says, go and have a drink the bar.


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## ART6

John Dryden said:


> Used to fish for shark off the stern with a half inch rope,a meat hook and a chunk of meat while underway.We usually caught something and never lost one in the prop.Having said that you wouldn,t want to go over the side midships and scrape the barnacles straight into the mincer!


Barnacles on the hull of a cruise ship? Never! I am told that the only barnacles inhabit the passenger's lounges!



Stephen J. Card said:


> The bad news with the cruise ships... if you fall over the side... from a balcony, you will come down close to the side and you will go down, perhaps several feet down. When you are on the way comming back to the surface the ship will have gone past you will be right in the flow of the screws.
> 
> Do you think it would be better to jump off the stern, that is going to HURT! Look at those duck bill sterns. You will land onto hard steel.
> 
> Best stay inside at the bar!


If you elect to fall over the side from the balcony of a cruise ship the water will be like concrete, so the screws will be the least of your problems. Your guts will explode under the impact and the sharks will feast upon them while you are still barely alive and vainly attempting to swim. The gutless will admit defeat, drown, and be eaten while those with courage will fight clear of the sharks and consider that their loss at least saved the cost of an appendectomy.

In my time at sea I never considered the question of what I would do if I went overboard, since that would be difficult to do from the engine room and we never went on deck at sea -- we left that sort of thing to our navigator colleagues who were genetically programmed to be wet and cold for most of their trips. So I am not really qualified for this thread. :sweat:


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## quintero

Hi! The turn a ship makes after something like that happens has a name. I do not remember. 
Regards


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## John Rogers

quintero said:


> Hi! The turn a ship makes after something like that happens has a name. I do not remember.
> Regards


180?.....(Jester)


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## 40907

quintero said:


> Hi! The turn a ship makes after something like that happens has a name. I do not remember.
> Regards


I've heard about the Anderson turn, the Williamson turn and the Scharnow turn.

C'mon! Someone please say "Well done!!" - I so want to be right! (EEK) (Thumb)


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## John Rogers

You are correct Reef Knot "Well Done" I googled what you posted.

A man overboard rescue turn is a sailing maneuver usually implemented immediately upon learning of a man overboard. To maneuver closer to the person's location, implementations of the principles described are: the quick turn (also known as the Q-turn or the figure eight turn), the Anderson turn, the Williamson turn, and the Scharnow turn.


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## DeepSeaDiver

The visuals of this thread can keep a person up at night.


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## Tmac1720

If I tied my aunt to the propeller before it started to revolve would she be my giddy aunt when it did?....... sorry but I appear to have lost my coat. (Smoke)

I recall back in my Harland and Bluff days some painters were working round the stern end of a tanker when the propeller suddenly started to revolve. Their wooden scow was rapidly reduced to matchwood and they were not happy bunnies after their unscheduled dip. The prop rotated very slowly so nobody was hurt.


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## BobClay

It's interesting that when at sea the ship was your insulation from a totally hostile environment. A few centimetres of steel between you and a world that contained unforgiving physics, and all kinds of nasty things that even Hollywood 'alien' animators couldn't top.

Yet we cruised around the oceans of the world without really looking at it like that, because we had faith in the machines we lived in and looked after. It's only on threads like this you realise that horror was just a few seconds away, and on the occasion you did encounter it, albeit if only briefly, your training and job kicked in and took your mind off it.


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## eddyw

Williamson turn? I was a passenger on a liner once when this was carried out as an exercise (was that a BoT requirement of some sort?) Oil can with flag affixed chucked off stern and this reported to bridge. Turn caused substantial heel but seems to have been effective as sure enough can eventually came up dead ahead. Have to say took a worryingly long time to complete retrieval. Moral: keep both feet firmly on deck.


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## jimthehat

ART6 said:


> Barnacles on the hull of a cruise ship? Never! I am told that the only barnacles inhabit the passenger's lounges!
> 
> 
> 
> If you elect to fall over the side from the balcony of a cruise ship the water will be like concrete, so the screws will be the least of your problems. Your guts will explode under the impact and the sharks will feast upon them while you are still barely alive and vainly attempting to swim. The gutless will admit defeat, drown, and be eaten while those with courage will fight clear of the sharks and consider that their loss at least saved the cost of an appendectomy.
> 
> In my time at sea I never considered the question of what I would do if I went overboard, since that would be difficult to do from the engine room and we never went on deck at sea -- we left that sort of thing to our navigator colleagues who were genetically programmed to be wet and cold for most of their trips. So I am not really qualified for this thread. :sweat:


 Do not tell me that E/R staff do not find danger .many years ago whilst in Drydock in calcutta at breakfast time the 2/e decided to take a walk on shore as he walked down the gangway someone called to him from the boatneck,he turned round tripped and fell over the side rails,sad to say he did not survive the fall.
It is a sight that i will never forget i went down to the bottom of the dock with a stretcher but the police would not let us remove the body till about 1600 that afternoon,they had no compassion,
jim


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## Samsette

quintero said:


> Hi! The turn a ship makes after something like that happens has a name. I do not remember.
> Regards


Williamson Turn.


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## McCloggie

We were taught that the first thing to do in a MOB-ex was to turn the ship to kick the stern and screws clear of the man in the water. Admittedly this was on a minesweeper and not a large merchant ship.

The turn Quintero mentions will be a Williamson Turn where you throw the ship so many degrees to port (or starboard) to turn and regain the reciprocal of your original course.

I believe these are still used. Certainly on the most recent Bridge Cards I have seen for FPSOs on passage the manoeuvre is till there.

McC


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## spongebob

While we are on the subject of propellers, I recall that the screws of twin engined ships that I sailed on revolved inboard, ie the port prop turning clockwise and the starboard anticlockwise when viewed from the stern.
This brings to mind the Bathurst Class WW2 minesweepers built by Australia and gifted to the NZ Navy in the 1950's had twin screw triple expansion reciprocating steam engines that rotated the opposite way. I only went on trials once on the Kiama and at full speed a lot of lube spray etc from the exposed engines was flung into the middles making it rather damp. 
Was this a design mistake or is it sometimes either/or rotation?
Just a thought

Bob


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## trotterdotpom

Samsette said:


> Williamson Turn.


They used to have instruction notices about that on the bridges of most ships. I always thought it meant some scrubber on a Norwegian ship and then I realised that that is a Wilhelmsen Turn.

John T


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## ART6

quintero said:


> Hi! The turn a ship makes after something like that happens has a name. I do not remember.
> Regards


Try this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Man_overboard_rescue_turn

I have a faint recollection that in the UK MN it's referred to as the "Heidlemann Turn" or something like that.


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## ART6

Whoops! This is what you get for responding to something without reading the rest of the thread! Sorry folks! (EEK)


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## Mad Landsman

I have put a question on Cruise ships regarding Mob procedures when the chance arises.

It seems that it depends on how soon reported;
If some minutes have passed then a Williamson turn would be executed and prepare to launch FRB.
If the report is contemporaneous, or seen from the bridge, then a 'crash stop' would be executed with immediate launch of the FRB. 

I gather that it also depends on Company Standing Orders and, of course, sea conditions.


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## Dartskipper

spongebob said:


> While we are on the subject of propellers, I recall that the screws of twin engined ships that I sailed on revolved inboard, ie the port prop turning clockwise and the starboard anticlockwise when viewed from the stern.
> This brings to mind the Bathurst Class WW2 minesweepers built by Australia and gifted to the NZ Navy in the 1950's had twin screw triple expansion reciprocating steam engines that rotated the opposite way. I only went on trials once on the Kiama and at full speed a lot of lube spray etc from the exposed engines was flung into the middles making it rather damp.
> Was this a design mistake or is it sometimes either/or rotation?
> Just a thought
> 
> Bob


Hi Bob,

In answer to your query, twin screws can be in either rotation. The effect on ship handling though is different in each case. This also applies to smaller craft that I am more familiar with.

With inward turning propellers, if one engine is shut down, the vessel will still be easy to keep on course with minimal helm correction needed.
With outward turning propellers, if one engine is shut down, the vessel has a strong tendency to veer in the direction of the stopped engine (i.e if the port engine is stopped, the vessel will naturally try to turn to port.) This means you have to sometimes put on a lot of opposite helm just to keep the vessel on a straight course. The benefits of this though are that if a vessel has outward turning screws, she is much easier to handle in harbour and restricted waters, especially so if she has twin rudders too. This was the set up in the Fairmile launches that I enjoyed handling. By setting one engine ahead, and the other astern, you could turn in the length of the vessel, without making headway or sternway.
Single screw vessels have different characteristics, my launch Our Rosalie was built for inshore trawling, and she would turn to port quite rapidly, but turning to starboard was slower, and needed some bursts of astern if turning in a tight spot, just to kick the stern around.

Cheers,

Roy.


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## price

If I remember correctly, the Williamson turn was always performed at full speed, on a right handed vessel the helm was put hard to port until 60 degrees off course, then hard to starboard until back on a reciprocal course to the original heading, I could be wrong with the right or left handed screw, it was all more than 50 years ago, but the rest I believe to be correct. Bruce.


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## jimg0nxx

Is it a Williamson Turn?


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## tsell

quintero said:


> Hi! The turn a ship makes after something like that happens has a name. I do not remember.
> Regards


Hi, quintero, your question answered here: 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Man_overboard_rescue_turn

Some interesting reading!

Taff


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## tsell

Sorry - should have read the rest of the thread too!!!

Taff


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## Phil Rogers

Williamson Turn


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