# Best Ferry Design



## PeterG

This is sure to trigger fierce arguments but here goes anyway:
What is the best looking ferry in service today? 
This is regardless of where it operates, or how reliable it is - just external visual appearance.


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## treeve

Scillonian III !!!!!!!!


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## newda898

I think the new Maersk Norfolkline trio look quite good as well as Color Fantasy but I really couldn't pick out on single best looking ferry.


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## rushie

Treeve...the Scillonian III may look a lovely vessel....but she is an absolute cow of a ship to sail on. Even on a calm day, when she hits the point where the Atlantic Ocean meets the English Channel...she's a white knuckle ride, due to her flat bottom in getting into St Mary's.

For me it's the Pont l'Abbe...ex Dana Anglia between Plymouth and Francais.

Rushie


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## treeve

*Scillonian III*

Absolutely, Rushie, a ship for real sailors!! 
And, Peter did qualify by saying regardless of reliability (*)) 
That's what I like about Scillonian III, you can feel the water
under you, you can sense the sea. A lot of ships I have been on,
well, I may as well be on a number 9 bus, for all the excitement
it gave me. That area of sea has always been rather splendid;
seven currents meet at the Wolf Rock, so I have been told. (Thumb)


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## Derek Roger

I would suggest the last one I built ; 
the Fairweather which runs at Gondola Point in New Brunswick ! I shall take a sail down there tomrrow and Post a pic , She is a cable ferry and it is of significance that she is at Gondola Point which is where the first cable ferry ever operated . 
The first one was designed and built by William Pitt and powered by horses . At that crossing today there is also a Ferry called the William Pitt which was also built by the company I used to manage before I retired ,
My daughter in law is a decendant of the Pitts .
Derek


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## rushie

Treeve,

That's correct about the seven currents meeting.

I sailed on her last summer in light winds. When we got to that point the crew were inviting people to "rest" in cabins downstairs.! Meanwhile I was at the bar.!

Rushie


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## Matthew

Princess of Scandinavia, DFDS Seaways


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## Pioneer

*bute*

Calmacs got a few contenders m.v Bute though after her first winter sailings she proved her usfulnes another would maybe be the calmac flagship M.v Hebrides who has had no teethingproblems at all but i would need to say the m.v Brenda corllett (ex Pioneer) wins hands down as a maid of all work proved to be the most useful and best designed ship in the west of scotland


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## PeterG

She may be a true workhorse, but is she necessarily the best looking ferry in existence? 
MV Bute looks a versatile vessel, and Hebrides is a very good looker.


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## Pioneer

*best design*

ah but the pioneer was designed with a shallow hull so she could sail up shallow lochs or approach shallow peirs and was also quite a good vessal in heavy swells that would see Bute confined to Rothesay but i do Agree the hebrides is better looking out of the 3


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## agentroadrunner

You're having a laugh? They are all as ugly as sin! 

In profile Bute & Heb are just about ok but thats where it ends.

Hebrides is an excellent ship, In my opinion the best Cal-Mac have produced in a long time but that said she was not my favourite ( I worked on them for 24 years ) and anyway that wasn't the question.

I would say Norfolk Line new builds are about the best looking ferries in service at the moment

p.s. Hebrides is not the flagship...there isn't one! If there were it would be Clansman ( Commanded by Senior Master )


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## Hawkeye

Hi
These are or were my favorites:
Dana Regina
Ionic Ferry (ex Dragon)
The Viking Valiant, Venturer, Viscount & Voyager (pre altered)
Tor Scandinavia
Tor Britannia
Winston Churchill

And for working on:
Europic Ferry
European Trader
Viking Viscount

Regards
Karl


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## sabinecastle

Aurora 2000 imo


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## Manxships

20 Years too late, but still.....Manxman


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## Bruce Carson

Based on visual and sentimental values, not cold hard efficiency and convenience:
Lake Michigan Carferry's coal fired steamship 'Badger' built in 1952. Runs across the Lake in the summer season between Ludington, Michigan and Manitowac, Wisconsin carrying passengers and automobiles.

http://www.greatlakesdigitalimaging.com/badger01.jpg

(Her inactive sistership, 'Spartan', is in the background)

Bruce C


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## Matthew

Bruce Carson said:


> Based on visual and sentimental values, not cold hard efficiency and convenience:
> Lake Michigan Carferry's coal fired steamship 'Badger' built in 1952. Runs across the Lake in the summer season between Ludington, Michigan and Milwaukee, Wisconsin carrying passengers and automobiles.
> 
> http://www.greatlakesdigitalimaging.com/badger01.jpg
> 
> (Her inactive sistership, 'Spartan', is in the background)
> 
> Bruce C


Based on sentimental value I would have chosen Pride of Hampshire (post-rebuild Viking Venturer)

http://www.faktaomfartyg.se/pride_of_hampshire_1975_b_3.htm
http://www.faktaomfartyg.se/pride_of_hampshire_1975_b_2.htm

But for looks it has to be what is now Moby Otta/Drea (ex Tor Scandinavia/Britannia)

http://www.faktaomfartyg.se/princess_of_scandinavia_1976_b_11.htm


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## hhvferry

The last of the 1960s Swedish Lloyd trio that retains her original looks and is still utterly gorgeous, inside and out, the Ancona (ex-Svea) is surely a contender:


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## Stevo

*Best looker*

The Isle of Wight Denny built twins MV Southsea and Brading are by far the most georgeous ships to grace the Island route and a worthy candidates for the title of best lookers.


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## Locking Splice

Morning All,

The Classic Railway Ship " SS Maid of Kent",(1959) looked more like a Mini Liner, in fact was dubbed the Pocket Liner in many articles about her by shipping writers during her long career.

Another popular little gem was the Railways "SS Lord Warden" (1951) the first purpose built drive on drive off car ferry for the Dover cross channel route.

Both the above ships were very popular with their crews, and in the Summer season the Deep Sea lads wanting to have the Summer home and the Hasting's Navy all used to ask for these two ships by name.

Normandy Ferries 1972 Danish built "nf Tiger".compared too many other ferries out of Dover during the late 1970's she was a breath of fresh air. 
This classic old lady is still going strong back up in the waters she origanly was built for.the Baltic, and is still a popular ship.

The "FE5" not the best looking ships but out of the orignal Townsend eight she always looked the best and was another very popular Dover ship.

Townsend/ P&O, 1987 " Pride of Dover" the first Super Ferry on the Channel, built to take on the threat of Channel Tunnel she was nicknamed the Chunnelbeater. Far better looking than the Spirit class vessels, an easy loader and well thought out and still doing the job she was built for with the minumum of fuss. During the night of the Hurricane (October 1987) she was the last ship to get into Dover Harbour and berth alongside undamaged while all the smaller ferries were stuck outside. We steamed into the harbour as the hurricane was beginning to reach its height around two oclock in the morning, our bow tug wire parted at 70 miles an hour and we more or less got blown onto the berth.

I could name a few more oldies but the above are my real favourites, also I am probably biased (I am sure its allowed) because at one time or another in betweeen Deep Water days I was the Bos'un of all the above.

Seasons Greetings to All.

Best Regards

Locking Splice


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## cambria49

Locking Splice, how right you are with the Lord Warden and Maid of Kent. To that list I would also add the Avalon.


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## Locking Splice

Hi Cambria,

Thanks for that, was going to put the Avalon on my list, had forgotten she had been converted to a Car Ferry, so did not want to rock the boat and put a Passenger only in. She was a real lady, only saw her once when she called at Dover in the early Seventies after one of her mini deep water cruises.
If their is ever a thread for pure passenger only design, the Avalon, Blenhiem, Cambria, Hibernia, Maid of Orleans, Canterbury, and the Golden Arrow Steamer SS Invicta would all be on my list, Op's must not forget the Ceasera and Sarnia.

Best Regards

Locking Splice


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## meechingman

Newhaven-Dieppe's Brighton (VI), built by Denny's in 1949/50 has to be high on my list.

Can't go with rushie's Pont L'Abbe - way too much funnel for me!

Andy


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## christopher.ryan1

Locking Splice said:


> Morning All,
> 
> The Classic Railway Ship " SS Maid of Kent",(1959) looked more like a Mini Liner, in fact was dubbed the Pocket Liner in many articles about her by shipping writers during her long career.
> 
> Another popular little gem was the Railways "SS Lord Warden" (1951) the first purpose built drive on drive off car ferry for the Dover cross channel route.
> 
> Both the above ships were very popular with their crews, and in the Summer season the Deep Sea lads wanting to have the Summer home and the Hasting's Navy all used to ask for these two ships by name.
> 
> Normandy Ferries 1972 Danish built "nf Tiger".compared too many other ferries out of Dover during the late 1970's she was a breath of fresh air.
> This classic old lady is still going strong back up in the waters she origanly was built for.the Baltic, and is still a popular ship.
> 
> The "FE5" not the best looking ships but out of the orignal Townsend eight she always looked the best and was another very popular Dover ship.
> 
> Townsend/ P&O, 1987 " Pride of Dover" the first Super Ferry on the Channel, built to take on the threat of Channel Tunnel she was nicknamed the Chunnelbeater. Far better looking than the Spirit class vessels, an easy loader and well thought out and still doing the job she was built for with the minumum of fuss. During the night of the Hurricane (October 1987) she was the last ship to get into Dover Harbour and berth alongside undamaged while all the smaller ferries were stuck outside. We steamed into the harbour as the hurricane was beginning to reach its height around two oclock in the morning, our bow tug wire parted at 70 miles an hour and we more or less got blown onto the berth.
> 
> I could name a few more oldies but the above are my real favourites, also I am probably biased (I am sure its allowed) because at one time or another in betweeen Deep Water days I was the Bos'un of all the above.
> 
> Seasons Greetings to All.
> 
> Best Regards
> 
> Locking Splice


Nice choice's locking splice,My dad was an AB on the Normannia, he said that was his favourite, me personally it was the FE1, She was my first ship before clearing off deep sea.Then when ever i came home i always tried to do the summer on her,8 lorries or coaches,and rest cars what a doddle.Also my last ship was the European Trader all freight no punters even better.I see you mentioned the hurricane I was on the lifeboat at the time we went out at 5 o'clock the wind the was recorded at 116mph before the machine broke.I think of all the present ships the Dover and Calais are the best in any sea.My mate is Bosun on the calais he thinks the same.He thinks the Maid OF Kent is the best ferry.All a matter of personal choice.
cheers Chris Ryan.


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## Locking Splice

Hello Chris,

If I say "Orchedia" you will know you are talking to an old mate. Forgot about the FE1, yes indeed a fine little vessel and ahead of her time when built. Also was going to put the European Trader in as she was also a nice design, was on their with Ronnie for a couple of weeks when she was first built.
Glad you think the Pride of Dover still looks good, remember going out as Bosun to Bremerhaven in 1987 to stand by the last 3 weeks of her Building, she was a good ship. Did the makers trials on her steaming up the North Sea too the coast of Norway then back down again under the German Flag.
Never forget it because the Food and Drink laid on by the shipyard was incredible. Spent a happy 8 months on her. however as you know 1988 would would change everything.
Your mate who's Bosun on the Calais, is right about the Maid of Kent she was a classic looker, if his surname starts with S, I think he was Deck Boy on her. I did Bosun of B Crew in the summer of 73, and was on her with my brother Andy when she ran stern first into the end of 13 Berth in Boulogne. She made a right mess of her stern, so much that the stern door could not be opened. On the the long after mooring deck their was a large double hatch, the lids had to be lifted and then all the cars craned off through the hatch, I will have to post a photo that I still have in the picture section. The next day we were towed by a large French Tug up to Dunkerque for inspection. We left her their and she never returned to the Port, shortly after I also left the Railway Boats at Dover. 
Hope you are keeping well Chris. , lots of great guys and laughs back then. 
Best Regards
Locking Splice (Yuge)


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## jimmys

*Ferry design*

There is no good ferry design unless you move to passenger only ships.
The inclusion of a large flat car /truck deck with its height necessity and mezz decks precludes good design. The berthing restricts the draught and the engine room height is invariably restricted which causes maintenance problems. The whole design is a comprimise between the various factors.
The dread of ingress of water in the large flat deck with the resulting stability problems mean overdesign.
Our naval architects tell us that a ferry can stand two feet of water on the car deck as long as the ship is stationary but as sea going engineers we know that it cannot for the simple reason it will never be stationary. When it rolls in damage the water comes back up the freeing ports. The dynamics cause the problems. You cannot design against this, you never know what will happen at sea.
A person sitting on a bog near water level will tell you this but you cannot tell a ship designer they know best.

Best regards
jimmys


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## christopher.ryan1

Locking Splice said:


> Hello Chris,
> 
> If I say "Orchedia" you will know you are talking to an old mate. Forgot about the FE1, yes indeed a fine little vessel and ahead of her time when built. Also was going to put the European Trader in as she was also a nice design, was on their with Ronnie for a couple of weeks when she was first built.
> Glad you think the Pride of Dover still looks good, remember going out as Bosun to Bremerhaven in 1987 to stand by the last 3 weeks of her Building, she was a good ship. Did the makers trials on her steaming up the North Sea too the coast of Norway then back down again under the German Flag.
> Never forget it because the Food and Drink laid on by the shipyard was incredible. Spent a happy 8 months on her. however as you know 1988 would would change everything.
> Your mate who's Bosun on the Calais, is right about the Maid of Kent she was a classic looker, if his surname starts with S, I think he was Deck Boy on her. I did Bosun of B Crew in the summer of 73, and was on her with my brother Andy when she ran stern first into the end of 13 Berth in Boulogne. She made a right mess of her stern, so much that the stern door could not be opened. On the the long after mooring deck their was a large double hatch, the lids had to be lifted and then all the cars craned off through the hatch, I will have to post a photo that I still have in the picture section. The next day we were towed by a large French Tug up to Dunkerque for inspection. We left her their and she never returned to the Port, shortly after I also left the Railway Boats at Dover.
> Hope you are keeping well Chris. , lots of great guys and laughs back then.
> Best Regards
> Locking Splice (Yuge)


I thought that was you,confirmed it with the ORCHEDIA I was out with Soll last night his dads 80th have been telling him about this site and others.Those were the days yuge, great memories will keep in touch. 
happy new year chris.


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## jazz606

I sailed on Avalon's maiden voyage as a passenger Harwich to the Hook in late 1963 I think to join the MV Cape York (Lyles) as a cadet. Came home 14 months later to James Watt Dock Greenock with Fijian sugar.


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## Peter4447

I am very surprised that no one has mentioned the magnificent DFDS ships for good looks. Kronprins Frederik, Winston Churchill, England etc.
Peter4447


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## PeterG

jimmys said:


> There is no good ferry design unless you move to passenger only ships.
> The inclusion of a large flat car /truck deck with its height necessity and mezz decks precludes good design. The berthing restricts the draught and the engine room height is invariably restricted which causes maintenance problems. The whole design is a comprimise between the various factors.
> The dread of ingress of water in the large flat deck with the resulting stability problems mean overdesign.
> Our naval architects tell us that a ferry can stand two feet of water on the car deck as long as the ship is stationary but as sea going engineers we know that it cannot for the simple reason it will never be stationary. When it rolls in damage the water comes back up the freeing ports. The dynamics cause the problems. You cannot design against this, you never know what will happen at sea.
> A person sitting on a bog near water level will tell you this but you cannot tell a ship designer they know best.
> 
> Best regards
> jimmys


I have to disagree there jimmys, there are (in my opinion) plenty of very good looking car ferries. Prince and Princess of Scandinavia are very easy on the eye. 
My personal modern favourite is Ulysses. Although this will be controversial, she is stunning, and is probably the most reliable ferry in existence.


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## Matthew

PeterG said:


> I have to disagree there jimmys, there are (in my opinion) plenty of very good looking car ferries. Prince and Princess of Scandinavia are very easy on the eye.
> My personal modern favourite is Ulysses. Although this will be controversial, she is stunning, and is probably the most reliable ferry in existence.


I agree, the Tor Twins are fantastic looking, Ulysses looks modern and sleek, Stena Danica and her sister are elegant looking - there are plenty of good-looking ferries out there, you just have to find them and seperate them from the less-well-looking ships, eg Moby Freedom and Regina Baltica.


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## jimmys

Awful things, cars and trucks were meant to drive on roads, not go to sea.

They are like container ships they do not look good.

It is only when you get into the design you recognize how bad they are.

best regards
jimmys


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## PeterG

You are of course entitled to your opinion jimmys, and I fully respect that. But I certainly could not imagine a world without car ferries - having to fly everywhere, or get on a passenger only ferry, and get a hire car. It would be such an inconvenience to millions of people worldwide. 
Once again, I cannot agree with you that car ferries look bad. Even if you did not have cars being carried, passenger ferries still need a certain distance between the waterline and the superstructure; just look at cruise ships. Apart from bow and stern doors, they are essentially the same principal as car ferries, simply having passenger berths instead of a car deck. 
It seems only logical to utilise the space inside the hull on passenger vessels for carrying vehicles.


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## Matthew

jimmys said:


> Awful things, cars and trucks were meant to drive on roads, not go to sea.
> 
> They are like container ships they do not look good.
> 
> It is only when you get into the design you recognize how bad they are.
> 
> best regards
> jimmys


Your principal works against you - it can also be said that people were supposed to stay on land, not go to sea...


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## jimmys

I only went to sea because I did not know any better, It took 25 years to knock some sense into my head, now I know better.
The young of today do not want to go to sea, they know better.

When you have been deeply involved, in the building,surveying and inspection of ferries a person grows a very jaundiced view. When I look at a ferry, any ferry my thoughts are " what a bloody mess". When I go aboard invariably it is worse than I initially thought.

A modern passenger ship is the same, when you see it coming with the 150 person lifeboats and the embarkation shutes that blow away in Garvel Dock, the A60 bulkheads and doors a fire walks through. They do not look good either, I worry about stability.

Tankers I just do not like.

I did not have much opinion up to recently about box boats, I had not had much to do with them. Now after some education by the members here, I do not like them either.

Do not pay any attention to me I have now retired and it is the prerogative of the retired man to moan. The young have to listen to it.

best regards
jimmys

ps I have a special dislike for CalMac ferries


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## James_C

Jimmy,
Things have never been the same with Macbraynes since the got rid of the old Loch Seaforth, eh?


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## DICK SLOAN

I would love to answer this, but what makes a ferry the best looking, is it the modern design, the sleek appearance...what colour she is, i reckon we all have a favourite, is it fair to choose one' we have'nt sailed on...it goes on..but i will choose the Caesarea...you cant beat wood decks. and as it happened' no car deck....


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## Coastie

PeterG said:


> This is sure to trigger fierce arguments but here goes anyway:
> What is the best looking ferry in service today?
> This is regardless of where it operates, or how reliable it is - just external visual appearance.


The Ulysses, without a doubt.(==D)


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## duquesa

*best ferry design*

Bit confused here as to whether we are talking "Best Design or "Best Looking".
The design I am not qualified to discuss but if we are in the area of Best Looking then the "Ulysses" doesn't even rate a mention. She is a typical example of the slab sided monstrosity we now have to accept as the modern ferry. Naval architecture at it's worst.


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## Coastie

duquesa said:


> Bit confused here as to whether we are talking "Best Design or "Best Looking".
> The design I am not qualified to discuss but if we are in the area of Best Looking then the "Ulysses" doesn't even rate a mention. She is a typical example of the slab sided monstrosity we now have to accept as the modern ferry. Naval architecture at it's worst.


Perhaps I'm slightly biased!


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## Coastie

Had this thread included ferries which are out of service, even if they are in service in another country, I would have put the St Columba. (Think Cambers 21 might just agree with me there.)


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## James_C

Lady of Mann (the most recent) was quite a good looker, she isn't now mind, with her recent alterations.


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## duquesa

Coastie, you're allowed to be biased. Years ago there were some very fine looking ferries and to be honest, there are still a few about.


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## PeterG

duquesa said:


> Bit confused here as to whether we are talking "Best Design or "Best Looking".
> The design I am not qualified to discuss but if we are in the area of Best Looking then the "Ulysses" doesn't even rate a mention. She is a typical example of the slab sided monstrosity we now have to accept as the modern ferry. Naval architecture at it's worst.


A slab-sided monstrosity? I don't know which Ulysses you are talking about, but it can't be Irish Ferries'. Her bow profile is perfect; head on she looks brilliant. 
And her stern area is still good looking, if not as much so as the forward section.
Irish Ferries, instead of a smaller, less expensive ferry, which looks like all of the others, took a risk and built a stunning superferry that would serve their capacity needs for many, many years to come. 
They have, in my opinion, built the best looking and overall THE best, car ferry ever. 
Naval Architecture at its best!!


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## duquesa

*Best ferry design*

Whatever turns you on my friend. I stick with my opinion. Having served on older "real" ferries, I am probably a bit old fashioned in my outlook. I shuttle to and fro between Dublin and Holyhead quite frequently nowadays, admittedly using the HSS out of pure convenience. Every time I spot the Ulysses heading in the other direction, I think, Oh Lord, what a heap. We're all allowed to live in the past from time to time. Bye.


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## jimmys

The Loch Seaforth was a nice boat, I think she was a loss
The Lochmor around the small isles. Really nice.
The Keppel an ex London boat was a beauty, Largs/Millport.
All these boats had something in common they carried a lot of cars ie none.

The old ferries that were " running doon the watter " ie sailing down the Clyde took a bit of beating. At the fair holidays it was like a convoy from Friday night till Sunday. They all had proper lines and looked like they could fly.
When you see these it spoils you for the herring boxes with flags of today.

best regards
jimmys


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## James_C

Aye Jimmy, you're right there.
Now I think of it, the Seaforth struck a rock and sank next to the pier at Tiree.
A time where looks really were looks, right down to the smallest detail. At least we've still got two left, the Paddler and QM (the real one, not the imposter from John Browns!). It would have been nice to see KGV preserved though, to me she really was "it".
You're right about cars, they really are the scourge of modern living.


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## Coastie

James_C said:


> ..................You're right about cars, they really are the scourge of modern living.


I thought that was mobile phones, James.


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## Peter4447

Coastie said:


> I thought that was mobile phones, James.


In my younger days it was reckoned to be carbon paper. How things have changed - but for the better?

Peter4447(K)


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## duquesa

I do like "Herring Boxes". Fits perfectly.


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## Tmac1720

Just to throw my hat in the ring how about Duke of Lancaster/Argyll/Rothsea.
Now they looked like ships(Thumb)


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## Anderskane

I have to agree with Tmac1720 , after the height of summer season on Belfast- Heysham, the "Lancaster" would have done a couple of "cruises",to Portugal & Med.


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## duquesa

The "Avalon" mentioned earlier was a very fine looking vessel and one on which I served. She too fitted in service as a small cruise liner with her role on the Harwich-Hook run. I'm referring to her in her original build and not following conversion to a floating garage.


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## Emmanuel Makarios

An opinion from down under would say that the USS CO's RANGATIRA (1972) would have to be one of the worlds best looking roro ferries. Well proportioned and with sleek lines plus she was a very good sea boat.I have to say she didn't look as good out of USS Co colours so it doesn't count after she left our waters.
Regards
Emmanuel


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## Coastie

Coastie said:


> Had this thread included ferries which are out of service, even if they are in service in another country, I would have put the St Columba. (Think Cambers 21 might just agree with me there.)


Damn, I meant Cambers 49, not 21,(EEK) (although I think Cambers 21 would also agree with me)


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## Gulpers

Emmanuel Makarios said:


> An opinion from down under would say that the USS CO's RANGATIRA (1972) would have to be one of the worlds best looking roro ferries. Well proportioned and with sleek lines plus she was a very good sea boat.I have to say she didn't look as good out of USS Co colours so it doesn't count after she left our waters.
> Regards
> Emmanuel


I'm with Emmanuel on RANGATIRA. I saw her when she was new and she was a stunning looking vessel. (==D) 
Sadly, she proved to be uneconomical and when I next saw her she was looking rather sad as an accommodation vessel at the Howard Doris construction yard in Loch Kishorn. (EEK) 

http://www.bluestarline.org/rangatira.html


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## cambria49

Well, I would struggle to name any one ship, the criteria seems to be far and wide. Mention of the Avalon for example; although a beautiful ship her very design was her downfall - a steamer which should have been diesel, a passenger vessel which should have been a car ferry. Five years after her debut she was relegated at Harwich by the car ferry St George. Why? Because she was hopelessly out of date.

Seven years the Avalon's seniors were the Heysham Dukes; again beautiful ships built built in an era on the verge of change.

The St Columba was indeed a fine ship, strong and well-built for her specified task - mixing classic passengers with ro/ro traffic. But again, as was seen when the St David arrived at Holyhead in 1981 she struggled with increasing freight levels.

So, best designed British ferry? For me it would fall to the St David the similar St Anselm, St Christopher and Galloway Princess. 26 years after entering service the St David remains in UK operation as Stena Line's Stena Caledonia.

And of today's world services - gee where to begin? But I would certainly rate:

Stena Adventurer
Ulysses
Superfast vessels


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## Locking Splice

Morning All,

This has been an interesting thread, vearing off in several direction's however, like Cambria, I cannot say what is the best designed ferry, passenger or car. Their have been some excellent examples from all over the globe, the Rangitaria was certianly a stunner, the Tor Britiannia/Scandinavia were also good lookers. Never saw a mention of Normandy Ferries Dragoon and Lepoard (very stylish). Of the newer generation I have no favourites (sorry but they just do not reach the parts that the older ones did).
Best looking passenger Ferry for me is the Avalon, like Cambria said well out of her time, must have been been great for the crew having those mini cruise's to look foward too each season. Also liked the Duke of Lancaster, nice lines, and the crew again very lucky between 1958 and 1966 having 7 short mini cruises, especially the 13 day trip in 1964 and again 1965 that went to Lisbon and Corunna, her other cruises, being mainly the Scottish Islands, continental ports (Amsterdam Antwerp, Ostend) and the Baltic in 1962.
Best RORO design purely personal as I was her Bosun when first built in 1987 and had to work her was the Pride of Dover, easy to load , good sea ship and still doing the job orignily built for.
Best Ro Ro ever worked on purely for great times, atmosphere and crew , would be Shepperton Ferry, Maid of Kent and the NF Tiger.
I am probably biased however I always enjoyed the Railway boats, each port around the UK had their Classics, however like Cambria often wonder what the thinking was behind some of the construction of ships in the mid sixties by BR. When the SS Dover and the Holyhead Ferry 1 were built they entered service as steam ships, no bow doors low cardecks, so only a few high vehicles could be reversed into the stern area. They were not pretty to look at however worked on both and had an enjoyable time, accomadation standards were very high, however well out of date when entering service especially when Townsends FE2 and FE3, came about the same time, yes ugly ducklings, but ready to change the whole concept of ferries on the Dover Straights with their drive through cardecks and better freight carrying facilities.
Well thats my five pennieth.
Best Regards
Yuge


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## cambria49

I have been thinking about this thread and have come to the conclusion that I can't possibly comment. For what is considered as best design? 

Looks?
Sea Keeping (compared with similar vessels)?
Efficiency?
Ability to do the job asked of her?
Popularity with passengers?
Length of career?

And of course, do we talk of "all time"?

But, we can of course discuss some of the old friends mentioned here.

Now Yuge mentions the Holyhead Ferry 1 and Dover, two ships I recall from my childhood and also two ships which feature on my own web site; both in picture and in memory of various former Masters and Officers.

These two are the perfect example of poorly designed ships of the day.

Yuge hits the nail firmly on the head; steam turbines, stern loading, low headroom on the car deck and add to that the fact that they did not have bridge control - electric telegraphs being the order of the day.

The HF1 ended her days in a Spanish scrap yard in 1981, while the Dover ended up static use as a floating nightclub. Today she is idle at Hartlepool.

Now, consider that one year before the Holyhead Ferry 1 and the Dover two new ships entered service at Southampton. The Viking I and Viking II of Thoresen Car Ferries were following in 1965 by the Viking III. All three enjoyed bow and stern loading, ample headroom for trucks, diesel propulsion and also bridge control of the main engines.

Suffice to say, all three ships are still around today. The Viking II became Sealink's well known Earl William and today survives in Trinidad & Tobago. The other two are each in Greece and Norway.

Certainly contenders for superb design.


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## PeterG

My criteria when I started this thread were that the ship has to be in active service today, and I was talking merely about LOOKS - regardless of reliability and operation.
Basically, which of today's ferries looks the most attractive?


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## jimmys

Hi Peter
Everyone " looks " at things differently and an attraction to one could repel another.
What attracts engineers is good design, looks are immaterial.
Thats why the thread diverts

best regards
jimmys


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## cambria49

I concur with Jimmy, beauty is indeed in the eye of the beholder! 

Whether a ferry looks good or not has little to do with design. Rather, good design should be measured against the vessel's success at the job for which she was created.

But, for looks, I do like the Stena Adventurer - inside and out!


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## Coastie

Having been all over the Stena Adventurer, I have to say that she is a good looking ship, however, I still stand by what I said earlier, that the ferry which "floats my boat" is definately the Ulysses. As for the St David??????????? Come on, Cambers, what are you thinking about? She had no shape whatsoever, she was just a box with funells! I think that there was only you and Scottie who liked her. (The previous St David however.............!)


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## cambria49

Ah but Coastie, with the St David I wasn't thinking about looks, rather her design as a ferry - her functionality. That she is still serving the Irish Sea today is testiment to that design.

She was a terrific ship to load; could carry a huge amount of fright (for the time), was easy to turnround and was highly manoeuverable. 

A double decker that was required to operate to ports not equipped with double deck linkspans, she had an ingenious internal ramp system; the whole upper deck being moveable and hinged amidships. To deliver an acceptable ramp gradient both upper and main vehicle decks were slightly raised forward and aft, but sloped away to midships; thus the required ramp gradient was achieved, the ramp being hinged at the low point of the upper deck and meeting the high point of the main vehicle deck forward or aft.

If you look at a photo of the ship, following the belting and also the cabin windows and you will see the slope.

So no, not a particularly good looking ship - but a bloody great design!


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## Coastie

cambria49 said:


> Ah but Coastie, with the St David I wasn't thinking about looks, rather her design as a ferry - her functionality. That she is still serving the Irish Sea today is testiment to that design.


I take your point about her still serving the Irish Sea as opposed to the Columba which was sold on and possibly from an operators point of view she was ideal, but not very pleasing to the eye!


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## cambria49

Actually Coastie (and with apologies for slight topic change), former St Columba handed over to new Owners yesterday; more details on my forum.


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## Bearsie

Bruce Carson said:


> Based on visual and sentimental values, not cold hard efficiency and convenience:
> Lake Michigan Carferry's coal fired steamship 'Badger' built in 1952. Runs across the Lake in the summer season between Ludington, Michigan and Manitowac, Wisconsin carrying passengers and automobiles.
> 
> http://www.greatlakesdigitalimaging.com/badger01.jpg
> 
> (Her inactive sistership, 'Spartan', is in the background)
> 
> Bruce C


Ugly as sin ! I have seen her close up...

By Looks I'd vote for one of the scandinavian ferries


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## Shaun_Donnelly

Aesthetically speaking, I would say the Princess Marie Esmeralda and P M Christine before they was bastardised. Meaty ships, built as Belgian navy reserves and capable of 30 knots, although in ferry service they was governed to 20ish.

The Ostend ships were reknowned for their astern propulsion, which didn't seem to be governed at all. I often witnessed them swinging outside of Dover harbour and running astern at 20 knots (quite phenomenal) towards the pier heads.

Stena Emperor was a mighty fine looking vessel, latterly the Pride Of Provence, she had all the lines of a classic cruise liner but her downfall was her power. Dover/Calais vessels rely heavily on power to maintain their hectic schedules and Emperor/Provence was woefully retarded in this area. A beautiful ship though nevertheless!

Shaun


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## Fred Wood

Considering that most ferries are built for a particular route or line, I think, as an all round design, and for what was a truely multi-purpose design, the Vortigern of 1969 might be the best. She could fit into any of the Dover/Folkestone services - car ferry, passenger ferry (train connections at Boulogne), and train ferry to Dunkirk, and for her era, had as good a payload as any of the ferries. Chartres, her close sister comes second - the "back-to-front" funnel was wonderful, but Saint Eloi lacked the bow door that the other two had.

I agree with Justin that the St. Anselm etc were (and still are) superb carriers - again considering the context for which they were built, they must have the best and most versitile vehicle deck design ever, but were from the next era...and couldn't carry trains!

Fred


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## Locking Splice

Hi Fred,

Would agree with you very much on the Vortigerns design, sadly however their were a few problems that first year.
I joined her brand new in 1969 and when we entered service British Railways were still using the old number 2 berth, so once the the main car decks and mezzene decks were full, you had to wait while the shore ramp was raised to be able to load the top garage unlike Townsends who could load both decks at the same time over on number 4 berth. At the end of the summer season we changed too the Train Ferry service. however their was a problem on the Train Deck (I forget what the problem was now, think it was to do with Sprinklers or Fire curtains. The Board of Trade refused to allow the ship to run on the service it was origanly intended for the (Night Ferry Wagon Lits London to Paris Sleeping car service) this brand new lady was put on the the dreaded Ghost run, a cinderella service for the rest of the winter. Carrying mostly empty railway wagons, while the old 30's built Shepperton Ferry and Twickenham Ferry and 1950s' built St Germain shared the regular time tabled runs and Sleeper Service.
The origanal Ghost Run on the Hampton and Shepperton were very popular as their was only one crew and you lived aboard the ship and good money could be earnt. However the Vortigan had three crews and on the 12 hours on 24 hour off system which meant you had to join at 0430 in the mornings (not very popular).
The Railways had some funny ways, and even though the Vortigern was the newest ship the lovely old SS Invicta on the Golden Arrow Service remained the Commodore ship for a few more years after.
As a crew member who served in many of the older Steamers she never really captured the great atmosphere that the old Railway Boats were noted for. That said, she was not a bad ship to work on and the Railways certinaly got their moneys worth out of the old Vortigern and with her they tried to catch up with Townsends albeit very slowly. 

Best Regards

Yuge


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## tanker

Very nice for my opinion Was LEOPARDI of 70s. seen at Genoa 1986- and LA SUPERBA 2002.i was on her in 2002 ,here at Barcelona 2002.
Gp


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## rstimaru

Northsea ferries gets my vote.The second would be Cal Mac


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## Coastie

Locking Splice.

From reading your last entry, am I correct in thinking that you worked aboard the Hampton Ferry? I thought she was a great ship and often looked at her when she was up here on lay-up. (I was about 8) I've got a couple of photos of her somewhere in the outer harbour here, when I find them, I'll post them in the gallery.


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## Locking Splice

*Hampton Ferry*

Hi Coastie,

Yes I sailed in the Hampton a couple of times. They were good old Ships however the Shepperton was my favourite. I joined her as a Deck Boy in 1967 she was over 30 years old when I joined her however she had a lot of character and a proud war record. Entering and Departing port my job was up on the Bridge wing working the Engine Room Telegraphs. Sometimes you could be up their hours when the weather was bad especially trying to lock in at Dunkerque. I' ll never forget those old Chadburn Telegrapths, trying to hear the Caprtains orders and the reply bells ringing from the engine room above the howl of the wind. Because we lost an Anchor up in the Downs much of that summer was spent on the Ghost Run fitting in between the service ships during the middle of the night. This was very popular with the lads as we became a one crew ship and plenty of overtime. Our layby berth was out on number 5 berth on the Admirality Pier, now the site of one the Cruise Terminal berths.
They were hard working ships and had good crews. Although many had been in her for some years, they had also served in Cable Ships, Salvage Tugs, Royal Navy, and Deep Sea, before finding their fiddlers green. Many had seen War Service. 
We lived under the Train Deck right foward, and although the accomadation was sparten she was still cosy and comftable.
The smell of steam and oil was everywhere (beutiful) all the mooring gear was steam, she had capstans evervywhere, 4 on the Train Deck ( 2 foward 2 aft) 2 on the foc'sle, 2 on the top mooring deck aft.
As you know she was twin funnelled, and it was my job the polish her whistles, and god help you if they were not gleaming. Captain Bussy was the Master a nice old boy from the old school, he had come up through the hawse pipe to Captain. The Chief Officers I remember were a Mr Mike Bodiam and Mike Bates, and were decent chaps, while waiting in the locks they would often get the compass card out and help and test you for your steering ticket. Mike Forward was Second Mate, I would sail with him many years later when he was Master of the NF Tiger and I Bosun.
My Father after war service with Royal Navy in the Far East, returned home to join the Hampton Ferry in 1946 when she still had the heavy lifting gear fitted over the after end which could lift 84 tons.
Although I served in many ships both Foreign and Home trade, the Shepperton will always stand out as one of my favourites, a good old girl, lots of good memories.

Best Regards

Yuge


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## alibuk

Altho i have limited experience and a bid bias (growing up with calmac) i have to say they have some good looking ships. Its a shme you asked for active ships cos i would have to co with the 1964 trio calmac had Columba (Hebridean princess), Clansman and Hebrides not to mention the Glen Sanox and the Suilven. As for modern ships i would say Caly isles, Loti, Isle of Lewis and my favourite Isle of Mull. Sorry for my my bias.


oh yeah P&O's St Ola quite good lookin too


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## Coastie

Locking Splice said:


> Hi Coastie,
> 
> Yes I sailed in the Hampton a couple of times. They were good old Ships however the Shepperton was my favourite. I joined her as a Deck Boy in 1967 she was over 30 years old when I joined her however she had a lot of character and a proud war record. Entering and Departing port my job was up on the Bridge wing working the Engine Room Telegraphs. Sometimes you could be up their hours when the weather was bad especially trying to lock in at Dunkerque. I' ll never forget those old Chadburn Telegrapths, trying to hear the Caprtains orders and the reply bells ringing from the engine room above the howl of the wind. Because we lost an Anchor up in the Downs much of that summer was spent on the Ghost Run fitting in between the service ships during the middle of the night. This was very popular with the lads as we became a one crew ship and plenty of overtime. Our layby berth was out on number 5 berth on the Admirality Pier, now the site of one the Cruise Terminal berths.
> They were hard working ships and had good crews. Although many had been in her for some years, they had also served in Cable Ships, Salvage Tugs, Royal Navy, and Deep Sea, before finding their fiddlers green. Many had seen War Service.
> We lived under the Train Deck right foward, and although the accomadation was sparten she was still cosy and comftable.
> The smell of steam and oil was everywhere (beutiful) all the mooring gear was steam, she had capstans evervywhere, 4 on the Train Deck ( 2 foward 2 aft) 2 on the foc'sle, 2 on the top mooring deck aft.
> As you know she was twin funnelled, and it was my job the polish her whistles, and god help you if they were not gleaming. Captain Bussy was the Master a nice old boy from the old school, he had come up through the hawse pipe to Captain. The Chief Officers I remember were a Mr Mike Bodiam and Mike Bates, and were decent chaps, while waiting in the locks they would often get the compass card out and help and test you for your steering ticket. Mike Forward was Second Mate, I would sail with him many years later when he was Master of the NF Tiger and I Bosun.
> My Father after war service with Royal Navy in the Far East, returned home to join the Hampton Ferry in 1946 when she still had the heavy lifting gear fitted over the after end which could lift 84 tons.
> Although I served in many ships both Foreign and Home trade, the Shepperton will always stand out as one of my favourites, a good old girl, lots of good memories.
> 
> Best Regards
> 
> Yuge


Many thanks for that, Yuge, a really interesting read. I'm sorry it's taken me so long to read it. I must have lost the thread and forgotten about it.(Cloud) 
When, if, I do manage to find the pictures I will post them in the gallery.


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## Locking Splice

Hi Coastie,

Thanks for that, probably let my pen flow to much about her, especially with the recent photos on the site. Could probably write a load more, not the best looking of ferries but one of my favourites.
Look foward to seeing your photos. Their is a sad photo somewhere on the sight of her being scrapped in Spain, One funnel remains and however their is no mistaking her stern.

Best Regards

Yuge


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## canberra97

No mention of the two superb twin sister ferrys of the Spanish company AZNAR LINE that operated from Southampton to Santander from 1974 to 1977

The beautifull and very ahead of there time 10,500 grt ferrys Monte Toledo and Monte Granada

Those two ferrys along with the two Tor twins have to be my favourites with Swedish Lloyds Patricia, Saga a close third


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## gaelsail

canberra97 said:


> Swedish Lloyds Patricia


My first ever ferry crossing. We were only on the Patricia because a recently built MV Eagle (Southern Ferries) was caught in a storm and a vehicle did some damage to the cabins. Our destination was rapidly changed and resulted in a long drive south through Spain.

I reckon Swedish Lloyd & MS Patricia were a very good introduction to the sea. It is a terrible shame to see how MS Patricia has ended up. http://www.simplonpc.co.uk/SwedLloyd-Patricia.html#anchor15257


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## Dave437

It is a pity that I've missed this thread regarding the best ferry design. I have been lucky enough to have commanded both the "St David" as the Stena Caledonia and one ship which seems to have escaped the contest. To my mind the finest ever car ferry design was the Ailsa Princess, she was delightful to handle, (better than the Stena Caledonia, like a sports car versus a Lorry), and easy to maintain. You could do a thorough inspection of her in 45 minutes, as we had to every evening in Larne between 1645 and 1730. OK so it wasn't perfect, but the ship was kept clean. She looked beautiful and her layout suited the service she was designed for. She was so gratifying to handle that I used to look forward to going to work on her. I just loved that ship, then they took her away............sob....sob. 
OK so they came back with the St David, and she was fairly good, I enjoyed her as well although she was no match for the Ailsa, but they could unload two car decks in 7 minutes!.....well you can't compete with that. So they took my pet boat away, renamed her "Earl Harold" and set her to work on the Channel.. I wonder who is enjoying her now???


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## cos918

hi all. there are several boat that spring to mind.
1. Finnjet
2. Superfast X 10
3.Oleander former Pride of free enterprise.
Il go with Finnjet 

john


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## Sarky Cut

Hawkeye said:


> Hi
> 
> European Trader
> 
> 
> Regards
> Karl


Before or after the fire? That was a bobbies job.


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## Sarky Cut

cos918 said:


> hi all. there are several boat that spring to mind.
> 1. Finnjet
> 2. Superfast X 10
> 3.Oleander former Pride of Free Enterprise
> 
> 
> john


Also known as the Pride of Bruges and just plain Bruges.

May I put for the worst looking the Pride of Sandwich and the Walmer.

Racing greyhounds in looks and performance they were not!!!


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## mossop

I took the 'Monas Queen'(old IOMSP ferry)to the Phillipines where she was sold in 1996.She was a fine looking ship for her year(1972) and the first side loading ferry in the U.K.


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## R58484956

Greetings Mossop and welcome to SN. Enjoy the site and a happy new year to you. Bon voyage.


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## mossop

Cheers,will do.


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## Mill Bay

Now, for a new year, and for something from the other side of the world: I'm a member of a ferry enthusiast group in British Columbia, Canada, and we spend enough time arguing about whether the ships in our own local fleets our pretty, or not. I'd hate to think what would happen if we all got started on the ferries of Europe.

Anyway, if you are looking for a really beautiful series of ships, there is the vessel MV Coho, designed by the late Philip Spaulding of Seattle, Washington. This ship gave rise to entire class of nine vessels operated by the British Columbia ferries fleet, about half of which have now been retired. It was also the basis for the design used in several ferries of the Alaska ferries fleet as well. I feel it is a very elegant, steamship inspired design.

MV Coho
http://www.faktaomfartyg.se/coho_1959.htm

BCFerries first vessel based on MV Coho
http://www.faktaomfartyg.se/sidney_1960.htm

Later sisters to the Sidney followed the same design with successive modifications to more easily suit them to their service roles.
http://www.faktaomfartyg.se/queen_of_vancouver_1962_bild_1.htm
http://www.faktaomfartyg.se/queen_of_saanich_1963_bild_1.htm

MV Taku, MALASPINA and MATANUSKA, all designed after MV Coho for the Alaska Marine Highway Service.
http://www.faktaomfartyg.se/taku_1963.htm


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