# Ex merchant seaman's pictorial journal.



## scooby do (Mar 4, 2006)

Near my home is a small military museum. The curator is a friend of mine. I had a chance meeting with him . He told me about a collection of photographs, journals. etc that two elderly ladies had given to the museum after the death of thier brother. They just wanted to clear out the deceased home and did'nt know what else to do with it all. The curator took the collection more out of courtesy, It does'nt have a place in the museum he said to me! It's all merchant navy. [keep yu cool like as iff it never existed i thought] I went to the store room to look at it.
It is absolutly amazing what looks like a life times work. A photographic collection of about 2-3000 thats thousands of british merchant ships going back 60 years all indexed and listed by company. P&O. CUNARD. B&I. NZSC. ELLERMAN, BROCKLEBANKS, ELDER DEMPSTER. and many many more. Hand written on the back of every picture the ships name and history. Interestinglly not many are post cards but all personal photos They are all perfectly the same size and quality. Also there was sea breeze magazine boxed collections 20 years worth. A HMSO gazette, listing the names of every merchant ship lost in ww2. loads of merchant navel history to much to list.it realy is a life times dedication to the history merchant fleet. 

I find my self on the horns of a dilema. I can't sit back and see it broken up.
I don't want it to be just left in a damp store room.
On no account should a monetary value be attached to it.
The person that compiled it all i'm sure did it as a labour of love.
I need to think of something to keep it all together for people to see.????


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## David Wilcockson (Jul 10, 2005)

Hey scooby do
That sounds like the mother of all treasures for those with an interest in shipping. Just take your time on deciding what to do with the collection. Maybe a naval museum would be interested. Must admit I would love to see the trove myself.
David


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## Tmac1720 (Jun 24, 2005)

Scooby do that is pure gold you have there, have you thought about approaching a publisher? that way the world can share in the find.


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## scooby do (Mar 4, 2006)

I was realy amazed at the sight of it all. I could have spent the whole day just looking through it . The condition and quality of it all is brilliant.The bloke that put it all together has done a great job it realy must have taken many years.


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## Ron Stringer (Mar 15, 2005)

*MN Historic Collection*

Scooby,

Have you contacted anyone at the National Maritime Museum or the Guildhall Museum Library here in the UK? They may be able to offer suggestions as how to proceed in order to protect this important collection. The Liverpool Maritime Museum is another possiblility.

Ron


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## John Rogers (May 11, 2004)

Just a thought,but one of our members Billy McGee may know some organization that could make copies of it and a place where it could be kept for history.
John


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## Hugh MacLean (Nov 18, 2005)

It sounds like you have quite a find there.

It would be good if they could be preserved someway for the good of Merchant Navy history.

My only worry about the likes of the NMM and others is that once they have their hands on photos of ships they tend to archive them and you have to pay them about £20 a go to get a scan. The result as you can see on this site is loads of folk looking for photos of ships that they or their forebears sailed on but cannot get access to them because of cost.

Rgds


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## Gulpers (Sep 8, 2005)

*Collection*

Scoobs,
Are you in the UK and, if so, which part? There are several maritime museums scattered round the country who would be able to offer advice.

Tell me you are not really in Western Sahara, as your wee flag would suggest! (Thumb)


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## Jim MacIntyre (Mar 11, 2006)

*Collection*

Here's a thought 
Is it possible for shipsnostalgia to acquire the collection formally with a view to posting it somehow in the web-site ? 
Such posting would probably be a big job and might require professional help. (I'm the illiterate part of 'computer illiterate' so if I'm off track here i rely on someone to put me back in line).
Bottom line if it requires hiring someone to do the legwork then I for one (and I'm sure many others) would willingly contribute to any costs involved in order to have access to such a collection. 
Once the information is on our web-site and in the 'public domain' the material could be turned over to a museum for proper preservation and display. 
This way we get the best of all worlds. We all get access to the collection. The collection is properly preserved with respect for the person who put it together.
In going through old threads I read nightmare stories about total destruction of shipping memorabilia in company takeovers etc etc. and the outrage expressed here for such actions.
We need to consider this opportunity carefully and do the right thing.

Jim MacIntyre


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## David Wilcockson (Jul 10, 2005)

I would second Jim MacIntyre as that would get around any copyright infringement, & allow enthusiasts to view whenever they wanted regardless of world time zones, or museum opening hours. If it was on SN available at anytime, anywhere.
David (Thumb)


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## John Rogers (May 11, 2004)

With 6,000 members Im sure we could muster up a few dubloons/dollars/pounds/euros/pieces of eight. Trouble would be the administration of the project,thats if the collection is for sale.
John.


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## billyboy (Jul 6, 2005)

if not for sale could it not be hired for as long as it takes to get it on the web? I have absolutly no idea how one would go about this or what would be involved in getting on site, so, I am prepared for my keelhauling by the seniors of this site should i be out of order on this one.


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## Eric Wallace (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Scooby,what is the guys name?could you post a little bit about him.someone may recognise him.just a thought


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## tunatownshipwreck (Nov 9, 2005)

Jim MacIntyre said:


> Here's a thought
> Is it possible for shipsnostalgia to acquire the collection formally with a view to posting it somehow in the web-site ?
> Such posting would probably be a big job and might require professional help. (I'm the illiterate part of 'computer illiterate' so if I'm off track here i rely on someone to put me back in line).
> Bottom line if it requires hiring someone to do the legwork then I for one (and I'm sure many others) would willingly contribute to any costs involved in order to have access to such a collection.
> ...


Great idea. Good on you, Jim.


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## cheddarnibbles (Feb 12, 2005)

David Wilcockson said:


> I would second Jim MacIntyre as that would get around any copyright infringement, & allow enthusiasts to view whenever they wanted regardless of world time zones, or museum opening hours. If it was on SN available at anytime, anywhere.
> David (Thumb)


David : Here,here. Count me in.
Jim : Great idea.
SN Admin : Okay lads,the ball's in your court.


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## Guest (Apr 4, 2006)

*Leo Hannan*

I'll drink to Jim MacIntrye's idea. This material is to important to lose, and a medal for the member who saved it from what could have been oblivion. We're talking Merchant Navy history here.
Regards Leo (Applause)


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## Guest (Apr 4, 2006)

I forgot to add Scooby, the guy who created all this, could you name the collection after him?


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## Jim MacIntyre (Mar 11, 2006)

*Mechant Navy Collection*

I think since Scooby is the person who has seen the extent of the collection we need to hear his thoughts on what has been dicussed so far.
Posting the photos might not be any problem but I'm sure Sea Breezes and the HMSO gazette will involve copyright hurdles. 
Also to what extent would a project of this magnitude place a burden on the site administrators. 
let's hear from the folks where the rubber meets the road... 

Jim MacIntyre


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## scooby do (Mar 4, 2006)

A summary of events thus far and reply to above comments. This morning I spoke with the museum curator about the photographic archive in his possession. It took a bit of persuading but after some time he agreed to allow the archive to be put on a web site for all to see. He would require some assurances regards the safe return and protection of it's contents. He then told me i had not seen the entire collection there are six thousand photos in all. The other three thousand are at another location. It appears 
to be the work of two men. Father and son over a period of many years W. Allen and Frank Allen his son. The latter had no connection with the merchant navy other than this archive. The father did, but to what extent i don't know. To find out this information I Knocked on doors in the the street where they lived so it's all a bit vague at the moment. One of the neighbours mentioned that Frank did talk about publishing the work but did'nt get around to it. He died suddenly followed by his wife shortly after.

Jim MacIntyre seems to have the best idea.Put the archive on a web site. This one would be perfect. Advice from those concerned and obviously permission would be required.
The work required to get the archive on to a site like this is huge. 
It would have to be searchable indexes etc.etc. I'm not able to.
Out of interest I live in Pembroke Dock West Wales.
Thank you all very much for your comments 
I'll try to figure out the next move and will appreciate any advice.


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## Andy (Jan 25, 2004)

We'll certainly give it an online home.
cheers,
Andy


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## KIWI (Jul 27, 2005)

Would be more than happy to contribute to any fund raising.Don't leave it too long our dollar is dropping. KIWI


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## benjidog (Oct 27, 2005)

Scooby,

This is a fascinating find and the approach to dealing with this must be carefully considered. Here are my thoughts on how this could be taken forward.

1. Ownership and copyright needs to be determined and written permission given to put this material on-line. If the photographs are originals and have been given to the musuem and they give the OK that should not be an issue.

2. Management of the archive material. This is someone else's property and must be treated with great care. That means keeping records of what is loaned from the musuem and getting the material signed in and out so that nothing gets lost and there is no residual bad feeling about what happened to the source material.

3. Scanning the archive material. Scanning this number of photographs is a huge task as many of us will realise. I am in the process of scanning 40 years of my own photos so realise just how long this takes. We would need to agree how this could be accomplished. 

There are two main alternatives - both have problems:
(a) Pay someone to scan all the photos - the main advantage would be that it should be possible to get it done relatively quickly - main disadvantage would be cost and the need to fund raise and manage the finances of this work.

(b) Use a set of volunteers from SN members to do this in batches unless someone really has a lot of time on their hands and is prepared to do the lot - not easy I think.

Main advantage would be that it would be cheaper, main disadvantage that it would take a significant amount of project management (see following notes on this).

We would also need to agree a standard of scanning definition so that the quality is good enough to make any downloads people do worthwhile. I personally scan photos at 600 dots per inch but that is likely to put excessive demands on the SN capacity. We would need to get advice from the site owners about what they would recommend. 240 dpi may be an acceptable compromise but perhaps we should try a small sample and take a view of the quality this provides.

4. Each photo will have to be uploaded - presumably one at a time - and the information available from the notes kept by the original collectors added. Again this will be a lengthy process. If the "pay someone to do it" approach was possible it may be possible to find a way to do a bulk upload - we would need advice from the SN owners/administrators about what is possible here.

5. Project management. This may sound over the top but if the photos are as good as they sound, getting the above done will be a lengthy undertaking and will take a lot of management, involve postal costs in sending photos to members to scan etc. and keeping things on track. Without keeping a firm control over who is doing what, it is likely that pictures will go missing, be left hanging around unscanned etc. it will need someone chasing volunteers up over a significant period of time.

I would certainly be prepared to volunteer some of my time to this undertaking in some shape of form if it goes ahead.

Regards,

Brian


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## Jim MacIntyre (Mar 11, 2006)

*The Allen Collection*

Thanks to both Scooby and Brian for bringing some sobering thoughts to the project. There are some huge issues involved and their input has brought a better perspective to what we may be getting into.
I'm sure many members would gladly give time and participate but we are scattered to the four winds and probably some (myself) not qualified to do the type of work required. 
My preference, for reasons stated above, would be to go the professional route which, as pointed out, will be expensive. The question is 'how expensive'? I personally have not a clue so if anyone can shed some light at least we would know what is needed financially. 
Once we know 'how much' we can talk about fund raising. We can at least test the water with a pledge drive among the members to see if we even come close to meeting the financial requirements. Could this be done to a central location on a PM basis allowing some privacy ???
If we can make some headway to this point we could consider keeping everything local. Possibly have it done at the museum ?? No shipping, no lost material , no recriminations.
Having said all that a couple of additional thoughts come to mind (who is the member that is always in this unfamiliar territory ??? now I know what he means).....
IF we get access to the material could it be set up as a separate but linked web-site dedicated to The Allen Collection. That way it would be a stand alone with no effect on our site. 
Scooby mentioned something about the original owners desire to publish the material - dare I wander into another minefield by suggesting we might publish a book either on this collection or centered around it and incorporating some of our own suitable material. That could represent a lasting tribute to the Allens and possibly allow us our small gesture of defiance to the 'establishment' on behalf of the "Merch"!

Jim MacIntyre


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## benjidog (Oct 27, 2005)

Scooby and other interested parties,

Another couple of few thoughts on this:

Before we start getting too excited:

(a) Just what sort of quality are these pictures and what size are they? I know you said they were pretty good but I wondered how good. Is there any chance you could scan a couple of samples and upload them so we can get an idea of what we are dealing with?

(b) I presume they are mainly black and white - if so this will reduce the size of the files to some extent as colour pictures take more disk space. Is this correct?

Regarding your suggestions about separate websites and publishing books, both of these are even more complex undertakings. I don't want to pour cold water on your suggestions but we must go into these kind of things with our eyes open.

Although the idea of a website dedicated to this collection is a good one, it requires a really dedicated person to set this up, run it and maintain it. Many people have done this for special collections, but over time it depends on the continuing interest and availability of the enthusiast that takes it on (assuming one can be found). Most sites of this kind start well and with good intentions but wither on the vine - one of the attractions of SN in that it has good infrastructure and support and a better chance of lasting for at least a fair number of years - hopefully a lot longer.

Other members are better placed to advise what is involved in publishing a book (TMac for one) but anyone taking this on has a long road to go down. You need a publisher, an author (you can't just stuff this lot in without explanation and comment). A publisher would need to feel he is going to get a return on his investment and the copyright issues become even more complicated.

My gut feel is that the best way of dealing with this is as a SN project with scanning done by a small and committed number of members over time. The scanned images could be uploaded to SN - maybe in a special area - don't know if that would be possible - and I would suggest returned to the museum in original and scanned format with the hope of finding a permanent home for the originals in a nautical museum somewhere.

I have also sent an enquiry to a company called Do***ent Scanning.net to get an indicative cost to give us some idea of what we are up against if we go down that track.

Regards,

Brian (sitting board in Heathrow Airport waiting for flight) :-(


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## scooby do (Mar 4, 2006)

Thank you for your comments so far. 
I will give an outline of events to date.
Curator and custodian of archive has given permission copy works. Aprox 6000 photos. All are in first class condition, mostly black&white about post card size. On the back of each a hand written history of the ship.

As to copying the work to cd or dvd indexed in alphabetic order for easy access. there are a number of options 1. Find a willing computer geek. Better to find half a dozen.! They are out there. Ive made enquiries may need to give them a few Quid.
Second option.Give the job to a company. I'v made two enquiries so far
they estimate. 40 pence per scan plus £6.50 per thousand key strokes this equates to about £6000. Second company refused to quote said it would take to long [ i asked if his press was a Doxford but it went over his head] All things considerd it seems doable. 

As to copyright. A complexed and vague subject to the lay person. I thought it prudent to seek advice. [thats why im talking like a frigin lawyer] In law two bodies own a photograph. Most important is the copyright owner thats usualy the person who took the photo. likewise commissioners of a photo. It remains in the ownership of eitherr. for 70 Years after their death as benefit to their estate. In the event of non beqeathal it is still a part of the residual estate and heirs can lay claim.
It is obvious that not many people sue for copyright regarding internet publications. The practice is far to widespread. 
Never the less steps should be taken to reduce risk. 
One should obtain a letter of comfort from the archive owner and the heirs of the original owner. Or one could state on the web site displaying the photo that in the event of any objection the said image will be removed immediatly
Judgment in most cases is the work of the copyright tribunaral. If it can be seen you did every thing reasonably possible to avoid infringement and not profit from the photo. they are not likely to take a dim view.

Thank you Benji for making enquiries regards scanning let me know what you find out
And thanks all for your input so far. At this point it all looks quite encouraging.


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## Jeff Egan (Jul 25, 2005)

If you are looking for voluteers to do some of the scanning I would like to help.


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## benjidog (Oct 27, 2005)

*Cost of Scanning by a Scanning Company*

I have had an outline quote of 8p per photo from a firm specialising in scanning do***ents. They were very much on the ball and got back to me within 5 minutes of my emailing them - I was very impressed with their response. For this price they said they could provide a scan in colour (even if the original is black and white they say this provides a better result). They also would also provide thumbnails for each scan at no additional charge.

However we should not get carried away with this price as we only discussed this in general terms and I did not have any real details of the material - the actual cost would depend on the source material. I also don't know what small print and extras there may be - the company has promised to send me more information.

The outline cost quoted to me was based on the assumption that the photos were not mounted in an album - if they were this would obviously be a greater task as the process could not be automated. I think for loose picture they can just feed a stack of them into the machine and it just does it. 

As as starting point I would think we should be looking at at least 10p per picture - so if there are 6,000 of them my abacus says that is about £600. No doubt we would have to add postage, VAT etc.

To take this forward we need to have a much clearer picture of the material - exact number, sizes, whether in an album or not etc etc. We could then get a more realistic quote we could work with to decide whether to go for fund raising or a do-it-yourself by members job.

Scooby,

If you can send me more details I will ask for a quote - or I can provide you with the contact details of the company if you would prefer to handle this yourself.

Regards,

Brian


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## scooby do (Mar 4, 2006)

*photos*

Thank you all for your input so far. here is how we stand.
Leo suggests calling the collection. The Allen archive I thought a great idea 
as i think most would. Problem is that the very title could wave a red flag regards copyright. We need to take more advice on that one.

Brian. thank you for your research regards costs of scanning and i suppose it could be called digitization, . 8 pence per unit is fantastic the chap i spoke to yeterday wanted 40 pence.As you say one should be cautious regards the 8 pence estimate until the person your dealing with has a clearer picture [ excuse the pun].If his estimate stands he's got the job.

Jeff Egan 140/80 hopefully. Thank you for your offer of help Even though we may have things sorted it's good to know there are people standing to.

I spoke to a chap last night about scanning this archive. I sought his advice about format, dpi . cd.dvd. all that sort of thing he is very knowledgeable about the subject. He then offerd his services to do the job. He seemed happy with £500 and a new scanner. saying his would be worn out by the end of the job. He did say it would take about three months to complete.

Brian I think the way forward is for me to get one photo and put it in the gallery so you can to see what we've got. if that is not acceptable then i could mail it to you for closer inspection. Afterwards we can take one option or the other.

If this venture gets of the ground, infact i'm sure it will, we're going to need about £6-700.00 This does not include secure shipping to and from place of work. The good people on this site [including KIWI with the sinking currency] may be kind enough to make a donation. the logistics of that side of the equation we'll discuss later. There are bound to be problems there always is. By the feel of things the telegraph is ringing ''STAND BY'' Time to put air on the engine. 

If any body wants to comment your input would be appreciated.


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## Jeff Egan (Jul 25, 2005)

It's begining to sound as if 200 members at a fiver each would see the job done, you can put me down as a start.


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## scooby do (Mar 4, 2006)

I have put two sample photos in the gallery. First the immage, second the write up. look in scooby do gallery to find them. There are 4500 like these. 250 B.p tankers alone


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## Gulpers (Sep 8, 2005)

scooby do said:


> I have put two sample photos in the gallery. First the immage, second the write up. look in scooby do gallery to find them. There are 4500 like these. 250 B.p tankers alone


Thanks scooby do,

Links to scooby do's Gallery are =>

http://www.shipsnostalgia.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=21548

http://www.shipsnostalgia.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=21547 (Applause)


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## scooby do (Mar 4, 2006)

Thanks Ray I'm a slow learner with all this stuff. Give me a14lb hammer & a flogging spanner, I,m OK with that sort of technology.


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## Jim MacIntyre (Mar 11, 2006)

*The Allen Collection*

I can probably speak for all of the members who are sitting miles away from the action in expressing gratitude for what Scooby and Brian are doing. 
The news so far is encouraging.. as Jeff says - steady as she goes... 

Scooby - assume the museum curator wants to physically retain all this material when all is said and done ??

I for one will be watching developments and like many others will be doing what I can fiinancially to keep it going.. 

Good luck 
Jim MacIntyre


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## eldersuk (Oct 24, 2005)

Put me down for any help I may be able to give, including a few bob. 

I'm certainly not trying to put difficulties in the way of the project, but, as the pictures all have notations on the back, has it been considered that it may be necessary to scan them TWICE (front & back)? Even if the backs are not scanned the notes would have to be transcribed in some way to tally with the pictures, this may prove to be the hardest part of the exercise. 

Once everything has been scanned and collated what about putting the results on a disc (or discs) and offer them for sale to SN members and shipping enthusiasts generally through "Sea Breezes" or similar which may go some way to defray the costs.

I'm getting way ahead of myself here - as my old mother used to say, "don't try to pee before your water comes", I'd better shut up now.

Derek


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## rainbow (Feb 10, 2006)

Hi all,
I would like to make a contribution towards the cost of scanning. Just publish the amount and method of payment. 
It's a peasure to be a member of this global group. Like others, I'm impressed the way members post their thoughts, stories and photos for the pleasure of others, people they have never met, nor will they ever. 
Well done to Scoobi-Doo for his noble gesture 

Tony


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## John Rogers (May 11, 2004)

I have read a lot of good ideas and thoughts,but mailing the photos out to members is not a good idea breaking up the albums.
paying it to be done would be the best way to go,you could even put the pictures on a CD or a DVD and sell each member a copy to help pay for the cost,take orders first for the CDs.to see what happens.
John


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## danube4 (Aug 20, 2005)

I would like to make a contribution to the cost of this project, and thank all concerned for there time and effort in getting it started.
All the best. Barney.


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## Hugh MacLean (Nov 18, 2005)

I would very much like to help as well. The thought of this collection being made available to us all is wonderful.

To Scooby and those who will be doing the spade work on this I say thank you.

Like us all am watching this space.(Thumb) 

Rgds


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## fred henderson (Jun 13, 2005)

*Practical problems*

May I suggest a few problems that need to be thought through: -

1. For this wonderful archieve to be of value on-line, it needs to be user-friendly. Scooby tells us that it is indexed, but we need to get the index on-line and working, as well as getting the photographs on line. The technical experts will tell us how that would be done, but it is clearly a further task to be considered.

2. The sample photographs looked to be good, but if any require cleaning that will greatly add to the cost.

3. This is such an amazing collection, I am concerned about risking the photographs in an automated system.

4. The captions need to be firmly linked to the photographs. Is this possible with hand written captions? Clearly it would be better if they were typed in the comments slot when they are uploaded, but this would be a mammoth task. 

5. Are we sure that the Allens had the rights that will allow us to reproduce the photographs? Your two samples both look like commercial photographs.

Fred (Thumb)


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## scooby do (Mar 4, 2006)

I'v just put a picture into the gallery.From it you can see some of the collection. I counted roughly 4500 it is a huge undertaking. 
Fred. It is time for sober thoughts. Tomorrow I shall make further enquiries. regards copyright. We do not want any trouble. regards copyright. the photos are all perfectly clean [i got to them in time] all photos are pasted to card backing.


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## scooby do (Mar 4, 2006)

I can't help but wonder how F.Allen compiled such a large collection of photos, considering it was pre internet. I imagine he was a member of a ship 
spotters club. A bit like train spotters, He probably traded photos with other enthusiasts all over the world. Looks like it started over forty years ago until he passed away.

I'v looked at the collection closely they appear to be photo prints the sort you'd get back from, say a chemist or drug store years ago. None of them are cut from magazines or books their to thick for that. postcards of ships are usualy mat or orange peel texture. these are glossy like family snapshots.
Nevertheless I'm no expert, a lot of this collection is bound to be subject to copyright.
The former comment about copyright being a bastard is right. However when you look at other web sites you have to wonder if they all comply with copyright law. I doupt that. Ther's a loop hole some where I'm sure.

I spoke with the curator in possession of the archive about placing the
collection on a web site. He said feel free. I asked about copyright, his answer suprised me. He stated that the copyright was passed to the museum 
and he would be happy to sign a letter of comfort regarding copyright.

My own thoughts are. I think the curator may get his museum in trouble and i don't want to be a party to that. Equally I would not want to harm this web site. The old adage may apply....> to be certain you'r miserable than risk being happy. I await your comments, thank you for for your support so far.

Scooby do


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## Guest (Apr 7, 2006)

*The Collection*

Count me in for any assistance I can offer, have all the time in the world. I will even make the sarnies for the Bridge Box.
Regards Leo (Thumb)


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## Tmac1720 (Jun 24, 2005)

If I can help in any way add me to the list, any experience/knowledge I have is there to be used. (Thumb)


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## Tony Selman (Mar 8, 2006)

I own two print and copy franchises and would like to make a couple of, hopefully, relevant comments. Firstly I would like to contribute to this project in any way possible. At first glance you may well think that despatching to volunteers who beaver away free of charge is the obvious way forward. I am not personally convinced this is the way forward and my gut feel is that if the job can be done professionally this is the solution, quality will be consistent, a price and timescale will be quoted and if something goes wrong then we have recourse under commercial law. Based on experience I would almost completely discount the idea of publishing a book. My business produces the quarterly journal of the Radio Officers' Association (QSO), which is quite easy. However, for my sins I volunteered to update the errors in a previously professionally published book written by a former Radio Officer. This was a complete nightmare and it is a salutary warning to anyone considering volunteering to do anything similar. Creating and publishing something of this nature is difficult and despite my desire to fully assist in this venture I would not even consider it for my business.

Equally copyright law can be yet more of a nightmare. I am a voluntary editor for the supporters website of a major rugby club. Last year we became embroiled in a potentially libellous situation concerning certain postings from a board user. Can I summarize it by saying do not even think of going anywhere near an issue where you may be infringing copyright or posting something on the internet where there is some form of legal comeback. Minefield isn't even in it.

That said I think this is potentially a brilliant project and my gut feel at the moment is to get members to contribute financially and get the job done professionally and then legalities permitting post the images on this, or another chosen, website. I also think there is considerable mileage in considering producing a CD or DVD which I am sure many of us would buy.


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## scooby do (Mar 4, 2006)

Thank you for your offers of help and comments. also Tony for your advice.

I examined the photo collection today, spent two hours took my time looking for copyright marks. I found about six. It's clear copyright is an issue.
and so i'v made some enquiries to clarify the situation.

Firstly I tried to contact the copy right holders to seek their consent to copy.
It seems the principals no longer exist. The photos are about 25 years old
and the individuals could be retired or even dead. Nevertheless I carried out a thorough search. Such as. Telephone directories.including 118 enqiries. Photographic copyright directoris. people search, google area search. I found no trace of them.

I then sought advice from the following. Liverpool Merchant Navy Museum. Docuwatch at Reading university. Royal Photographic Society. Greenwich Maritime Museum. photographic publishers Exeter. Variuos others. all enquiries were made to the copyright departments. all were very helpful and interested in the project. 

they were all of the same pinion. 
1/ If reasonable efforts have been made to contact the copyright holder have been fruitless.
2/ No financial gain is made in relation to the photos.
3/ The archive is used for research or educational purpose.
4/ Include a proviso stating. if offence is caused do***ent will be removed.
5/ Obtain letter of comfort from present owner of photos.

Any two of these measures will be enough to avoid offence.
.

Let's consider for a moment the above comment by [Tony Selman]
Say we are unable to put the archive on the site. We go a head with the scanning. sell the discs at cost [no proffit] If there's some cash left over give it to RNLI. 

In that scenario i would prefer some one else to hold the money. I feel a little to involved


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## scooby do (Mar 4, 2006)

Malcolm. The immediate problem is scanning the entire archive 4500-6000 photos is goining to be a huge task. When that is accomplished we can discuss our best options. 
This morning I spoke to a musem curator in Swansea. I was told he was on the lookout for an archive such as this. I described it to him and he seemed quite interested. I then asked how it would be exhibited. Told him I don't want it being locked into storeroom. Or on public display where people could soil the photos.
I said It would be ideal if the archive was put on a cd or dvd. We aranged a meeting after easter. so he can look at the photos. It would be an ideal situation I'd get a copy of the work and see where we go from there. So fingers crossed.
If it does'nt work out what the hell strart again.


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## benjidog (Oct 27, 2005)

Hi Scooby,

Did you get anywhere with the Swansea museum?

Brian


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## scooby do (Mar 4, 2006)

benjidog said:


> Hi Scooby,
> 
> Did you get anywhere with the Swansea museum?
> 
> Brian


Hi Brian hope you had a good easter.
I'm waiting for a call from the Swansea museum, could be any day now.I do sense a lack of enthuseasm though. Never mind I'v still got one more option,
A chap living down the road has volunteered to scan the whole thing to a CD.
He reckons the job will take 2-3 months. I will buy him a new scanner and give him some cash. Interestingly he is ex Marine Engineer retired because of arthritis. He is very good when it comes to PCs & softwear I think he will do a good job. 
Ian.


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## John Rogers (May 11, 2004)

With 6,000 thousand members I am sure we can more that foot the cost of this project.
John


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## Guest (Jun 2, 2006)

*Photo Collection*

Just back on line after a long break, can anyone update me on the position of the photo collection.
Regards
Leo (*))


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## scooby do (Mar 4, 2006)

Helo Leo It's all dragged on a bit has'nt it. I'v been waiting for a chap from a museum in Swansea. I was trying to get him to scan the lot and then give me a copy.
He must have changed his mind because he never returned my call.
Next week I will drop the whole lot into a friends house. He sort of volunteered.
He did tell me it would take him about three months to scan 6000 photos.


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## rushie (Jul 5, 2005)

Scooby,

Great stuff this is...and your time and efforts are greatly appreciated.

Just a thought - if no luck with Swansea, the Liverpool Maritime Museum is excellent, and no doubt there'll be a hell of lot of vessels that frequented the Mersey, within the collection with a lot of history. They have a library, reading rooms etc with tons of info on Microfilm, so they may just bite your hand off to assist in scanning the collection. Unlike the farcically named "National Maritime Museum" in Falmouth (read "sailing boats of the Solomon Islands...and how to build one") the Liverpool people deal with ships....and so Falmouth would be a complete waste of time to approach.

Keep us updated...and best of luck.

When complete I'll be hounding you for the 250 BP ships that feature..!!

Rushie


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## benjidog (Oct 27, 2005)

Hi Scooby,

Thanks for the update. Shame about the Swansea museum - I guess the problem is with the manpower to do the scanning.

I think you are talking about a DVD or more bearing in mind the numbers here.

Based on my experience of scanning piles of family photo, here is some basic advice:

1. Scanning Density

Go for 600 dpi (dots per inch) to provide good quality. It would be a shame to go through that lot and wish later that you had gone for better quality. May as well do it once well - even if it takes longer.

2. File Formats and Names

Save the files in jpg format but with a high level of quality. This will make the images readily accessible to potential users with just basic software.

Use a simple naming convention for the files based on numbers and don't try to be fancy with names. Go for something like 00000.jpg, 00001.jpg, 00002.jpg etc. Don't try to make the names meaningful - this just doesn't work - trust me on this one!

3. Indexing

Create an index on an Excel spreadsheet with the filename in the first column and additional data like subject and other comments in separate columns. This can later be used to search for photos. I would be happy to construct a template for this if you need help.

Include the spreadsheet index on the CD or DVD when you create it. People can then use it to find the photos they want to look at instead of browsing the whole disk (though they will still have the option to do this if they want).

4. Backups

It would be tragic if you lost the work half way through because of a computer failure.

Make sure you take backups as you proceed - preferably by having a second hard disk on the scanning machine - and in any case by copying batches of files to CD regularly - you will soon work out how many you can get on a CD. Take at least two copies of everything and CHECK THE CDs CAN BE READ!

I hope you find these suggestions helpful - please let me know if you need any technical advice relating to any of this - I am only too willing to provide it.

Good luck with this interesting project - I am sure there are many SN members willing to purchase a copy of the DVD when ready and hopefully this will offeset some of your costs. Maybe you could buy your volunteer a new scanner as it will probably be getting knackered after that many scans!

Regards,

Brian


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## Guest (Jun 3, 2006)

*Photo Collection*

Hi Scooby.
Thanks for the reply. You have really got people interested in what could be a worthwhile project. Brian seems very knowledgable about what needs to be done. How about getting a round robin going to see how much we could anticipate collecting to pay for the project. We seem to have lot of interested people on this site of ours.
Regards
Leo (*))


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## redgreggie (Jun 13, 2005)

*photo collection funding*

what a treasure you have unearthed, absolutely magnificent, any financial help needed and you can count me in.
well done to every-one who has got involved, just shows what can be done by willing people when left to get on with things, admirable!


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## scooby do (Mar 4, 2006)

Thans for the encouragement gents. 
I'v been busy the last few weeks, what with work and my daughters wedding and all.

Rushie...... I tried liverpool museum they were very helpful but are to busy with other projects. I do get your point about other maritime museums though. They seem to think merchant navy history ended with square riggers. Every time i go to one there's people singing sea shanties. with a finger in one ear. 

Brian..... Thanks for the advice regarding the scanning, I'll pass it on to Barry the scan. As we say in Wales.
And by the way. thank you very much for the tip on wedding speaches. Hitched.com saved my life.

Leo..... I think the best thing for now is to get things underway. I'll see about the cost later. By the way Barry the scan use to bring supplies to Longbow While she was in the Dock. Small world is'nt it.


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## allenr. (Jan 8, 2006)

*Allen Collection*

Ian, I have had some success using a modern digital camera using my old shipboard photos from fourty years ago, its easy to run off thirty or fourty pictures at a time, then down load onto a computer or spare hard drive and your ready to go again, no cost for film the only cost is for your time, you could easily accomplish the whole task within a matter of weeks, all you need
is a reasonable cost digital camera and a good spare hard drive up to 180 GB.
Some thought is needed when burning to a CD or a DVD because computer tech, is continuing to evolve for instance ten years ago floppy disks were
popular now it's hard to get a new computer that has that tech in use.
it all depends on what sort of machines you are running. Hope you succeed,Rob Allen. ex shell comp second mate. (no connection to the Allen collection)


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## Clem (Apr 27, 2006)

scooby do said:


> My own thoughts are. I think the curator may get his museum in trouble and i don't want to be a party to that. Equally I would not want to harm this web site. The old adage may apply....> to be certain you'r miserable than risk being happy. I await your comments, thank you for for your support so far.
> 
> Scooby do


Perhaps an enquiry to a national archive, regarding clarification of copyright/publishing issues, would answer some questions. I'm sure they have vast experience of dealing with donated photographic collections.

Good luck Scooby


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## John Feltham (Jan 3, 2006)

Hi Scooby Do,
If I can be of help with scanning photographs and placing them on disc I will be pleased to be of service. My own collection of black and white images, on this site, was produced mainly from poor quality small images that needed quite a bit of editing to remove dust marks, etc. Reproducing images from this collection is such a worth while project that I will be pleased to be of help as part of a team. 
Regards,
John


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## scooby do (Mar 4, 2006)

Got possession of the photo collection . Barry started scanning last night.
Putting the lot on to DVD 600 DPI As Brian [Benjidog] suggested,


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## Jeff Egan (Jul 25, 2005)

Great news Scooby, let me know if I can help in any way.


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## Guest (Jun 13, 2006)

Hi Scooby....... Looks like you've got things in hand, dont forget there are plenty people out here ready to help if called upon. Tell Barry the Scan I was the cook on Longbow and there when we de-commisioned her.
Regards
Leo (*))


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## backsplice (May 23, 2005)

well done lads ..........my mate and I have been following this thread with great interest it looks like the home ports have the job well under control unfortunately down here we are a wee bit far to be of assistance so again well done ....keep us all updated yours aye backsplice & aldinga (Thumb) (Applause)


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## John Rogers (May 11, 2004)

Scooby if you need money for supplies don't be bashful asking,we can all muster a few pieces of eight.
John


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## tom e kelso (May 1, 2005)

*The Allen Collection*

In an early response, the suggestion was made that an approach might be made to either of two well known maritime museums.

Sadly, I have personal knowledge of two people, now deceased, who in the past 10 years found both these establishments to be quite disinterested in acquiring impressive photographic collections covering the British ocean-going sailing ships from about 1880 onwards. In the first instance, the lady in question had made the approach with a view to bequeathing the collection which her father, who trained and sailed up to lst Mate in sail, to the museum. She changed her mind after what she regarded as a peremptory and rude response. On her death a couple of years ago, I understand her father's collection went to Vancouver! This museum has I understand many of its gifted collections stored away, unavailable for access, and uncatalogued in seperate and distant warehouses. In the other case, only two years ago, the widow, now deceased, had a similar response to the offer of a massive collection of sailing ship photographs, meticulously compiled voyage records and other ephemera built up over the lifetime of her husband, who had spent most of his working life in Valparaiso and other Chilean port agencies....in days gone by a veritable gold mine of records of the last days of sail. Fortunately, this collection, which is already reasonably well conserved, has found a home with the Scottish Maritime Museum.

From about 1988 to 2003 I was involved at the latter museum identifying and catalogiung a gifted collection of about 23000 ship photographic negatives, dating from about 1912 to 1960. Right from its receipt there has been a constant battle to find finance to conserve these negatives in proper envelopes, etc. etc but at long last, a start has been made in scanning them. (An added complication is that a major proportion are on celluloid film, which of course demands special fire-proof stowage.)

I earnestly hope that with whoever or wherever this Allen collection ends up, it can be made available to those with an interest in our merchant shipping history.

Tom


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## benjidog (Oct 27, 2005)

Interesting comments Tom.

I suppose most of us suffer from the delusion that museums would be only too glad to get their hands on additional exhibits when the reality is that they usually don't have the facilities to display, maintain and make available to the public the stuff they already have. Like most things in life this is down to funding which has been cut and cut.

Maybe Scooby should apply for a National Lottery grant - after all they have made awards like the following: 

£30k to MUFC to provide fitness classes for its staff
£2 million towards the production of Terry Gilliam's film, The Man Who Killed Don Quixote
That's not to mention some of the bizarre "Albino lesbian underwater basket-weaver's cooperative workshop" type awards.

When it comes down to it Scooby is doing the right thing. If you want a job doing properly - do it yourself. Let's hope "Barry the Scan" doesn't go crazy before he gets to the end of this archive.

The Internet is really the best and cheapest way of getting this material to those who are interested in it in this day and age. I think access to the images is actually more important than preservation of the original media - though many would argue with that viewpoint. 


Brian


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## scooby do (Mar 4, 2006)

Helo all. Just to keep you up to date on our progress regarding the photo archive.
Barrie [a new memer to S.N.although I don't know his user name yet.] is well on the way scanning the collection. 1250 to date.
His wife is giving him some awful stick because of the time he's spending on his P.C.
Members of the site beg her forgiveness for distracting Barries attention for so long.

Bian [benjidog]
has spoken with steve the site owner about putting the collection on S.N and it is agreed. It would be the best home for it.
So thank you Barrie for all the work and Brian for the advice. so far so good.
Regards Ian.


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## Guest (Jul 10, 2006)

Hi Scooby.
Trust things are going well and thanks for the update. As one of the other guys said"don't be afraid to ask for some pieces of eight if need be" We dont want you or Barrie to be out of pocket with something a lot of us are going to benefit from.
Regards Leo (*))


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## lamptrimmer (Jun 15, 2005)

*Lamptrimmer*

Count me in for any support needed, I think the C.D/ DVD idea is great
Good luck
Lamptrimmer (Applause)


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## billyboy (Jul 6, 2005)

Most excellent idea. wish you all the best with it. will support where i can


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## dom (Feb 10, 2006)

*dom*

if we can help wth cash please give us an adress,dont be shy


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## benjidog (Oct 27, 2005)

*Scanning marathon update*

Just got an update from Scooby who is tied up with Council red tape (whatever turns you on - bondage has never appealed to me!).(*)) 

He tells me that Barrie the Scan has now scanned over 3,000 of these photos and still going strong. (Applause) 

Scooby will provide another update when he gets a chance.

Regards,

Brian


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## K urgess (Aug 14, 2006)

I've just read this thread thanks to Brian's update and think it's an extremely fine idea whatever you do.
If funds ever become a problem please count me in.

I must say a word in defence of Museums and collections.

I was involved locally with an air museum as archivist and curator. It was before the advent of eBay and the realisation that the junk you were giving away might be worth a bob or two.

As archivist I never turned anything away. At first we had nowhere to store it because we didn't have a museum so I ended up with a loft, garage and wardrobes full of other people's discarded memories.
I can't defend filling the stores up with material that may never be seen again but I can defend the fact that at least it ain't in the bin. I hope that they have completed my cataloguing and made it all available to researchers. I dream that the service is free.

As curator I found that "possession is nine tenths of the law" was the sort of attitude imposed by the trustees. To those who actually run the museum (curator means "keeper of exhibits" and as such is a mere minion) the profit and loss account is everything so I fear my dream was stillborn. At least they were willing to give it storage room.
I left shortly afterwards. I was a volunteer after all and it was becoming a full time job with the usual lack of recognition or thanks. Not that you expect any in that situation because you are an enthusiast.

A lifetime of collecting junk on my behalf or that of others has left me with the same sort of quandary as the people who donated stuff to the museum.
Bin it or give it away never to be seen again. I like to think I'm saving stuff for posterity but one man's junk....If you have a sense of responsibility you certainly can't ignore it. We all remember that feeling of "Damn I should never have thrown that away" or "I should've paid more attention and made more notes"!

All this was before the internet and even before computers of the PC variety. Now I would put the stuff in the public domain in the best and most practical way which means internet publication and damn the consequences. An example is the glass slides I am posting. They were quite expensive, if I hadn't coughed up for them some commercial lot would be charging you £20 a pop by now, I don't care, I enjoy looking at them and if I can share them with people of a like interest it gives me pleasure to do so. But what do I do with them now? If it mkust be kept then bury it in a vault as well preserved as possible. Don't let your history disappear on somebody else's bonfire.

Some items must be kept for physical perusal. The handling of physical items or papers is one of the best parts of preservation and always gives me a "buzz". I have a logbook from a sailing vessel on a voyage from India to the UK dated 1841 (I will be making enquiries about this in a future thread). It came as part of a box of books at auction purchased for our part time book business that cost me a tenner. Because it's not "commercial", a bit tatty and falling apart other dealers would have binned it or given it to the kids to scribble on the clean pages. To me it's priceless. Even if I had never been to sea to sit with this in your hands, to touch the actual pages, to smell that old tarry smell and to read it by the light of an oil lamp or a guttering candle is like being there. You can hear the timbers creaking and the person completing the log in a swaying cabin using lamp black for ink is right there in front of you.

Rant over. I always have been a sentimental old SOB.
I promise to now return to my previous clown like utterances. (*)) (Wave)


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## Guest (Aug 21, 2006)

benjidog said:


> Just got an update from Scooby who is tied up with Council red tape (whatever turns you on - bondage has never appealed to me!).(*))
> 
> He tells me that Barrie the Scan has now scanned over 3,000 of these photos and still going strong. (Applause)
> 
> ...


Thanks for the update Brian. Looking forward to the end product.
Regards
Leo (*))


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## scooby do (Mar 4, 2006)

Thank you Brian for posting the update, 
you'r right enough to say I'm tide up in red tape. I was going to add that it's a pain in the a-s but I thougt better not, Benjidog will jump on that remark like ... well !.. a dog on a bone LOL. I'll call on Barrie again next week to see how he's doing. with any luck he could be up to 4000 

Great post from Marconi Sahib I don't think it was a rant and I.m sure you'r not an SOB. sentimntal perhaps but that's a common affliction that i'm sure most people on this site suffer from or perhaps enjoy ?
Ian


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## Tony Selman (Mar 8, 2006)

Put me down for a contribution to costs if required as well.


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## notnila (Apr 26, 2006)

I'm in just to be a small part of saving something so important.


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## scooby do (Mar 4, 2006)

Just met with Barrie the scan and he's just about finished scanning 6000 photos. there's 100 to go. the job has taken him about 500 hours.
I think he's done a great job. The next task is to put the lot on to D.V.D.
he should be finished in a week or so. 
the photos are indexed on a spread sheet listing the shipping company then their ships.


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## Jeff Egan (Jul 25, 2005)

Great news Scooby, well done to all concerned.


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## Tony Selman (Mar 8, 2006)

scooby, for my sins I own a print and copy business. One of the things we do quite regularly is produce covers for dvd's, cd's etc for organisations who need them in comparatively small numbers, ie not multiple thousands. We produce these colour digitally and this is very cost effective for low numbers, tens to hundreds, and it is very easy to run more if necessary whereas by normal print methods a new run is very expensive. I would be delighted to produce the covers for the dvd's at as competitive a price as I can manage. I employ a professional graphic designer and if you have not already done so I am prepared to have him design the cover for you free of charge. It would need you to provide with me some of the images so we can use them and outline to us what you need on the covers. We will of course provide multiple proofs as we go along until the final version.

Please take this as an offer to help and not an advertisement to procure business. If you want us to do anything it will be on a cover our costs basis not as a profit making venture. I think this is a great project and will be prepared to make a contribution even if you do not wish to use our services.


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## Guest (Sep 15, 2006)

Tony Selman said:


> scooby, for my sins I own a print and copy business. One of the things we do quite regularly is produce covers for dvd's, cd's etc for organisations who need them in comparatively small numbers, ie not multiple thousands. We produce these colour digitally and this is very cost effective for low numbers, tens to hundreds, and it is very easy to run more if necessary whereas by normal print methods a new run is very expensive. I would be delighted to produce the covers for the dvd's at as competitive a price as I can manage. I employ a professional graphic designer and if you have not already done so I am prepared to have him design the cover for you free of charge. It would need you to provide with me some of the images so we can use them and outline to us what you need on the covers. We will of course provide multiple proofs as we go along until the final version.
> 
> Please take this as an offer to help and not an advertisement to procure business. If you want us to do anything it will be on a cover our costs basis not as a profit making venture. I think this is a great project and will be prepared to make a contribution even if you do not wish to use our services.


Hi Tony.
What a lovely offer. I for one would contribute to the cost of production as I am sure would others. This has to be a worthwhile production,something saved for posterity.
Regards
Leo(Applause)


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## scooby do (Mar 4, 2006)

Tony Selman said:


> scooby, for my sins I own a print and copy business. One of the things we do quite regularly is produce covers for dvd's, cd's etc for organisations who need them in comparatively small numbers, ie not multiple thousands. We produce these colour digitally and this is very cost effective for low numbers, tens to hundreds, and it is very easy to run more if necessary whereas by normal print methods a new run is very expensive. I would be delighted to produce the covers for the dvd's at as competitive a price as I can manage. I employ a professional graphic designer and if you have not already done so I am prepared to have him design the cover for you free of charge. It would need you to provide with me some of the images so we can use them and outline to us what you need on the covers. We will of course provide multiple proofs as we go along until the final version.
> 
> Please take this as an offer to help and not an advertisement to procure business. If you want us to do anything it will be on a cover our costs basis not as a profit making venture. I think this is a great project and will be prepared to make a contribution even if you do not wish to use our services.


Hi Tony sorry about the late reply.
Thank you very much for your kind offer. I think it's a great idea. Hopefully. next week Barrie will be finished scanning the photos, I will send a copy to Brian [Benjidog] for his opinion regards quality and format, etc. I'v seen some of the work and i was very impressed but I am not an expert in this field. The only thing i have to sort out is raising a few pounds for Barrie for the many hours he's spent doing the work, He did offer his services on a voluntary basis, but it's taken him about 400 hours. There must be something we can do to raise a few pounds to thank him for his efforts. Lots of members have been good enough to make offers but it needs to be organised. Say we give Barrie £200 it would need 40 members to give £5 each. I'll have to put some thought into it, may be the members of S N can give their opinions.


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## danube4 (Aug 20, 2005)

I will gladly send a cheque for five pounds. Just give a address and it will be in the post. Thanks for all the effort you have put into this.
all the best ,Barney.


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## Jeff Egan (Jul 25, 2005)

Scooby, just let me know where to send the cheque.


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## Tony Selman (Mar 8, 2006)

Scooby, either post on here or if there is some sensitive information just send me a PM closer to the time.


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## benjidog (Oct 27, 2005)

Ian,

You can put me down for £25. Barrie will probably need the money to buy some new glasses after all that time staring at the screen. (==D)

Send me your details by PM and the cheque will be in the post.

Regards,

Brian


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## owen69 (Jul 20, 2006)

hi,this is owen69, what a fantastic find, put me down for a donation,i willbe happy to help, hope it all comes to fruition.


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## Guest (Sep 25, 2006)

Hi Scooby.
Just post the address for the cheque and it will be on it's way.
Regards
Leo(Wave)


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## John Rogers (May 11, 2004)

Put my name in the hat also.
John


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## billyboy (Jul 6, 2005)

I will donate as well for this great cause. PM the address where to send the check.


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## robertblack36 (Jul 3, 2006)

More than willing to contribute,post an address & a cheque is on the way.
Robert.


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## dom (Feb 10, 2006)

*dom*

some Oz dollars from here,ok


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## KIWI (Jul 27, 2005)

Happy to get a UK note & post to whereever is advised. Kiwi


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## Jim MacIntyre (Mar 11, 2006)

Definitely contributing to this effort. Please advise details


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## Hugh MacLean (Nov 18, 2005)

Happy to contribute. (Thumb) 

Regards


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## tony_s (Oct 6, 2006)

Any more news on this project? If you're still looking for contributions, count me in. PM the address and I'll send a cheque.


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## Don Sangster (Dec 4, 2005)

Happy to send a donation only need a address
Don S


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## benjidog (Oct 27, 2005)

I know Scooby is very busy so I will give you an update.

The scanning is complete and I am working on software to display the photos in a user-friendly manner. When this is done and tested Scooby will make a further announcement. I would like to complete this quicker but sadly work interferes with pleasure rather too much for my liking but I need the money to keep the credit card companies away from the door (they are far worse than wolves!). (Whaaa) 

I can tell you the "Barrie the Scan" has done an excellent job and deserves a medal. (Thumb) (Thumb) (Thumb) 

Regards,

Brian


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## Guest (Oct 26, 2006)

Thanks for the update Brian, now all we need do is to reimburse people for their effort.
Regards
Leo


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## capkelly (Feb 13, 2006)

Sounds like a fascinating collection and at £6,000 not really too expensive, I would certainly be up for a few quid to acquire this

Regards
Michael


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## benjidog (Oct 27, 2005)

Michael,

I don't know where you got the £6,000 figure from. The photos are owned by a museum and Scooby has got agreement from the owner to publish them on a "no profit" basis. They are not for sale.

Brian


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## PollY Anna (Sep 4, 2006)

Hi Scooby Do 

As a new boy on the block I was not aware of this thread until last night, I would like to give you the benefit of my first reactions.

1) Gold Mine

2) It must be preserved

3) to Hell with copyright (if Her Majesty Government can let 80% of our records go to a Canadian University I don't think HMSO could raise too many objections) as somebody said possession is nine tenths of the law.

4) I am not a legal beagle, but if it is formed into a Charity with the original owners Name it might forestall too many objections.

5) I didn't pick up whether I would be able to purchase the DVD's or I would get access through this site. Either way not only members, but I am sure researchers also, would be prepared to pay say 10p a photo or whatever.

6) The collected monies could be given to the RNLI or maybe other charities that the Allen Family would like to nominate.

7) If we have over 6000 members I am sure the technology exists to send each and everyone a begging E-Mail £5 each I make that £30,000 because I am sure not everyone is aware.

8) We are not the only site so the possibilities are endless we have the strength and power to move this on.

I have expressed my thoughts and would like to hear from members as to what they think

Regards Ron


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## scooby do (Mar 4, 2006)

Hi Ron 
Thank you for your comments. 
You are correct in saying the collection should be preserved. And with the help of some great blokes like Barrie the Scan and just lately Brian [Benji Dog] a member of Ships Nostalgia that task has been accomplished. In a week or two I shall make a full report to the members of this site, who like yourself have been so encouraging. 
Regards Ian.


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## Lefty (Nov 16, 2006)

Hello, I've just read thro' the thread of the Allen Collection. This exercise would be very akin to that done by Genuki and other Genealogy societies. Perhaps the know-how/advice is that way. I believe Genuki especially used a whole big group of people in order to get the masses of Census sheets,parish records etc on-line.
Artists and Writers Year Book (up to date issue in most libraries in UK) has a whole section on Copyright if anyone wishes to check possibilities. I have it in my mind, having dealt within the art world, that providing one-off copies with no profit making takes place, especially with the knowledge of and written permit of the known heirs of the collection all should be acceptable.
In all the previous correspondence we still don't know where this is. Is it close to a large urban settlement where 'bodies' or transport is feasible?
A great scheme in the offing!!! Well done Scooby!!!!!!!!


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## Keith Adams (Nov 5, 2006)

I AM SURE THAT BETWEEN US WE COULD RAISE THE NECCESSARY FUNDS EVEN IF WE HAD TO PAY FOR THE SERVICES OF AN ORGANIZATION TO OVERSEE IT. Snowy


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## benjidog (Oct 27, 2005)

It's all in hand folks. Further news in due course.

Brian


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## Pete Legg (May 8, 2006)

*The Allan photograph collection*

Benjidog. Do we have any further information regarding the Allan photographic collection and the proposed associated CD?. I have'nt seen any mention of this interesting topic recently.

Pete


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## benjidog (Oct 27, 2005)

Hi Pete,

The DVD is completed and well received by a small number of people I have got to review it but we are not sure if selling it is the right way forward. I am waiting for possible developments on SN before we decide how to progess this. 

I will let you know as soon as there is some more concrete news.

I am sorry that it is taking so long to complete this but it is not forgotten.

Regards,

Brian


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## JeffM (Jan 24, 2007)

Just stumbled across this thread. Amazing - particularly the goodwill shown by all. When you are ready to go could you do a broadcast email to all SN members with a short history of how this came about and how members might access whatever (CD?) comes out. If most members reaction to this story is the same as mine then a $10A fee or whatever would be instantly forthcoming. Congrats to all who participated and a bottle of scotch to Scooby do for his intervention.


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## benjidog (Oct 27, 2005)

*Now available on line*

After a great deal of work the photographs described in this thread are now available online. Please see this entry in the SN Directory for more information:

http://www.shipsnostalgia.com/guides/The_Allen_Collection

At some future date it is hoped to make them available in DVD format as well.

I hope you will all enjoy them.

Regards,

Brian


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## avonbank (Feb 10, 2007)

Thank you to everyone involved in saving this collection of ship photographs and for making it available to us.
Happy new year to you all.


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## Riptide (Aug 21, 2007)

(Thumb) Thanks a lot to all those involved,a job well done.


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## JeffM (Jan 24, 2007)

Congrats to all involved in bringing this collection to SN. Just dabbled with the tug collection and that kept me going. Potential divorce material - sooo much of it! JeffM


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## PollY Anna (Sep 4, 2006)

Well done lads, had a quick look can't wait for the DVD. The pic's have given me shots of some of the ships I sailed on from a whole new perspective. Great work.

Regards Ron


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