# Word counting



## odobber6 (Mar 1, 2011)

I am trying to remember how we counted words when sending telegrams.
I do remember companies running words together to save money.
How many letters were considered one word?
Did we use same counting procedure for SLT’s.
I do remember using gold francs for accounting.
What exchange rate did we use and how often did exchange rate change?
Sailed over 50 years ago so memory not as good.
Thanks
Denis n2jjf


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## trotterdotpom (Apr 29, 2005)

Plain language up to 15 letters was one word. In code, I'm pretty sure one word was a five letter/figure group. I've got an idea that one word was 20 characters in an SLT (Ship Letter Telegram for the uninitiated).

I don't recall applying any exchange rate to Gold Francs but I suppose we must have. Recently I was bemused by the initials "GF" next to some items on a restaurant menu. I thought: "Surely they're not using Gold Francs here, it's not even a French restaurant." The waitress set my mind at rest, it stood for "Gluten Free".

John T

i


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## sparkie2182 (May 12, 2007)

Occasionally a dispute could arise between ship and coast station concerning the actual word count.

Unlikely to happen these days.


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## hawkey01 (Mar 15, 2006)

Originally counting of msg's was per word as written and code was five figure/letter groups. As the years progressed and ship owners - particularly Greek, began to join words together the 15 character word came into being. SLT's were always for private use and business traffic was not allowed. 
Then the change came and we went to charging at 15 characters max per word, anything above was charged as two words, in 15 character steps. A contentious agreement was issued from the powers that be to allow companies to use SLT's for business. This resulted in huge SLT's from many companies vessels with stores lists and all types of business traffic. The 15 characters was across the board.
GF - Gold Franc was - I believe variable, from administration to administration subject to the international agreed exchange rate at the time. I sailed with SAIT at one time and did my accounts in GF - I do not remember doing any exchange onboard. This being handled by SAIT shoreside.

Neville


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## sparkie2182 (May 12, 2007)

How many R/Os remember shipmasters sending birthday and anniversary greetings to their wife's using SLT's?

Every little helps.


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## Larry Bennett (Aug 28, 2005)

Certainly when I trained at radio college in the 1970s and again when I was at GKA, words were counted as a maximum of 10 letters - words over 10 letters in length were charged as 2/1 (two words chargeable, one word actual). This resulted in many companies compressing their words into 10-letter groups like PLADVYRETA (Please advise your ETA) or similar. Certainly there were a few occasions where the ship and GKA could not reconcile the word count, so GKA would request a QTB (send first character of each word) in order to agree the charges. Many times the ship would take GKA's word for it and not dispute GKA's version!

From the early 1980s GKA used an electronic messaging system which counted the words automatically which was a great help!

SLTs were charged in the same way, although the costs were considerably cheaper. As noted above, some large shipping companies used the SLT service for non-urgent business matters (stores orders etc) which resulted in SLTs of over 200 words or so....

The automatic radiotelex service signalled the end of the SLT service at GKA around 1983, which was replaced by the Radio Telex Letter (RTL) service (where the message was printed out and put into an envelope and posted) and the Greetings Telex Letter (GTL) service where (for an extra charge) the message would be inserted into a suitable greetings card and then posted.


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## Ron Stringer (Mar 15, 2005)

At college in 1958 and during my time at sea from 1960-66, charging was as per Hawkey's post #4 on this thread. In plain language, words longer than 15 characters were charged as two words and counted as 2/1.


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## trotterdotpom (Apr 29, 2005)

In Grimsby a few newsagents sold code books for use on radiotelegrams and some of the fishermen would buy one for themselves and one for their wives to use on telegram exchanges. You could say a lot on a five letter group using them.

John T


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## John Gowers (Jul 18, 2018)

The early Denholm’s ships were park boats and they were a Greenock based company their ships were named after Greenock and Gourock parks apart from the Wellpark and Mountpark which were named after church’s that the Denholm family frequented in Greenock. They eventually ran out of parks and churches and then called two ships the Denpark and Holmpark, the story goes that they did not name a ship the Denholmpark was that words over ten letters and would treated as two words, typical Denholm’s trying to save a bit of money, not known as the Glasgow Greeks for no reason. I sailed with them for ten years some great trips some not so great.


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## trotterdotpom (Apr 29, 2005)

Ha ha, Denholms ... not tight, just "canny". Did a couple of trips with them, thought they were OK.

John T


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## Varley (Oct 1, 2006)

Thrifty is the preferred description. It much impressed Japanese clients when TDU explained the term. Why, exactly, would one wish to spend more than is necessary? A fine company.


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## jimg0nxx (Sep 1, 2005)

Ref #9
As I recollect the length of the ships name was immaterial. The only words counted were in the address, the text and the signature. Unless of course the name was mentioned in the text it would not be counted.


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## John Gowers (Jul 18, 2018)

OMG so it was just an urban mythe and I have been telling that story for years  

Dave, Yes I had a good time with Denholm only a couple of trips on the Dalma spoiled my ten years with them. I can't complain though they put me through my chief's ticket which set me up for life. That wee bit of paper gave me a comfortable life and a pleasant retirement.


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## phdad (Sep 5, 2019)

Larry Bennett said:


> Certainly when I trained at radio college in the 1970s and again when I was at GKA, words were counted as a maximum of 10 letters - words over 10 letters in length were charged as 2/1 (two words chargeable, one word actual). This resulted in many companies compressing their words into 10-letter groups like PLADVYRETA (Please advise your ETA) or similar. Certainly there were a few occasions where the ship and GKA could not reconcile the word count, so GKA would request a QTB (send first character of each word) in order to agree the charges. Many times the ship would take GKA's word for it and not dispute GKA's version!
> 
> From the early 1980s GKA used an electronic messaging system which counted the words automatically which was a great help!
> 
> ...





odobber6 said:


> I am trying to remember how we counted words when sending telegrams.
> I do remember companies running words together to save money.
> How many letters were considered one word?
> Did we use same counting procedure for SLT’s.
> ...


Words were counted as five characters to a word as I remember.


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## MMYuen (Apr 3, 2011)

odobber6 said:


> I am trying to remember how we counted words when sending telegrams.
> I do remember companies running words together to save money.
> How many letters were considered one word?
> Did we use same counting procedure for SLT’s.
> ...


Hi there, I do recall one word was a group of 5 (five) letters, punctuation included if any. I also recall the R/O charging me in GFs which was then converted to US$ which was deducted from my wages. I do not remember the exchange rate. This was back in the mid-eighties when I began sailing as a 3/O. My mother once sent me a "cable" as it was called back then. It read "happy bday whenu comng home?" Glad that someone else remembers those days.


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## phdad (Sep 5, 2019)

MMYuen said:


> Hi there, I do recall one word was a group of 5 (five) letters, punctuation included if any. I also recall the R/O charging me in GFs which was then converted to US$ which was deducted from my wages. I do not remember the exchange rate. This was back in the mid-eighties when I began sailing as a 3/O. My mother once sent me a "cable" as it was called back then. It read "happy bday whenu comng home?" Glad that someone else remembers those days.


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## zl1bbw (May 27, 2014)

LARRYHASIT CORRECTAS IRECALLITT HEFAVOURIT EWASTOREAD APHONOMSGJ USTASITWAS COPIEDFROM THESHIPBYT HEOPERATOR.


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## trotterdotpom (Apr 29, 2005)

I remain convinced and agree with Hawkey01 and Ron, plain language was counted at a maximum of 15 letters per word - so " Mum" on it's own was one word and so was "happybirthdayMa" but "HappybirthdayMum" was two words. I first learned that at Bridlington in 1964. 

John T


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## Austinsparks (Apr 30, 2013)

On one ship I had issues with word counts when sending someone's regular messages to a place in Clackmannanshire, Scotland. Sometimes the actual village was recognisable to the GKA operator, which meant I could get away with "Clack", while others would respond with "Where is Clack?" calling for explanations and negotiations!


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## Larry Bennett (Aug 28, 2005)

Austinsparks said:


> On one ship I had issues with word counts when sending someone's regular messages to a place in Clackmannanshire, Scotland. Sometimes the actual village was recognisable to the GKA operator, which meant I could get away with "Clack", while others would respond with "Where is Clack?" calling for explanations and negotiations!


When GKA moved to its automatic message handling system in the early 1980s, anything 'untoward' was rejected at the International Telegram Routing Centre (TRC) in Coventry. On a couple of occasions we had messages intended for the city of Tashkent in Uzbekistan being rejected due to there being 'no such place as Tash in Kent'. Such fun.


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## Troppo (Feb 18, 2010)

1 word = 10 letters when I was at sea.


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## Michael Kirwan (Mar 18, 2006)

Attached is page 38 and 39 from Handbook for Radio Operators 1968 edition.

Some companies used the letters LEFO for Lands End for Orders and was counted as one word

Michael


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## ronstringer56 (10 mo ago)

Post #22 - That edition was puublished after I left the sea but confirms that they still counted 15 characters to the word in plain language text and in addresses.


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## P.Arnold (Apr 11, 2013)

I too thought it was 15 characters, but it had to be read as if not in code.
Post #17 (10 letters) explains my understanding, irrespective of the count.
I have sent messages were the text as #17, could be read by the Captain and I, but not by the office, resulting in an msg coming back for the Captain to clarify, thus negating any cost savings.
Shell had code books, 5 letters, covering most subjects and scenarios. Get one letter wrong and it could be meant at C/O leaving with wife , or a mistake, C/O leaving with clap.


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## trotterdotpom (Apr 29, 2005)

Troppo said:


> 1 word = 10 letters when I was at sea.


Oh no, you were robbing everybody! I'm quite sure, plain language was 15 letters per word max in Australia as in the rest of the world. The letter "I" (as in me) was one word as was "notwithstanding" but "notwithstandingyou" was two words. Running words together was OK and still one word as long as they added up to 15 letters. 

John T


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## Troppo (Feb 18, 2010)

trotterdotpom said:


> Oh no, you were robbing everybody! I'm quite sure, plain language was 15 letters per word max in Australia as in the rest of the world. The letter "I" (as in me) was one word as was "notwithstanding" but "notwithstandingyou" was two words. Running words together was OK and still one word as long as they added up to 15 letters.
> 
> John T


Hmmm...my memory is pretty good...I could have sworn it was 10...mind you, my last 8 years at sea were with satcom...so no word counting..


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## P.Arnold (Apr 11, 2013)

When we did our morse sending tests for PMG ther e was a speed for code (5 letters) and another for plain language. What was the letter/space for plain language?


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## Varley (Oct 1, 2006)

Wasn't it 15s for code, 20s for plain language PMG II and MRGC 25s for PMG I (did PMG I have a higher speed for code too?)


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