# Yet another WWII question?



## nigelcollett (Oct 26, 2005)

Argos Hill (Mgrs: Counties Ship Management)

She was part of convoy HX214 depart N.Y. 3/11/42 - Does anybody know anything about her history and fate. I believe she was lost during the war but not when, where or how.

The was another Argos Hill (C.S.M) in 1946 which was formally the Empire Torrent (1942) but I'm not sure of any connection

Any info gratefully received.

NigelC


----------



## stevecz (Feb 12, 2005)

Is this the one
ex. "Canadian Constructor", for Montreal-Australia-New Zealand Line, 7,178 gross tons
Sold in 1939 to Ernels Shipping Co. Ltd., managed by Counties Ship Management Co. Ltd., London.
She was reported to have been by bombed & strafed by gunfire from an aircraft on 4th July 1940, but only damaged.

Argos Hill picked up survivor of the Athelcrown on 22nd January 1942, see site 
http://uboat.net/allies/merchants/ship.html?shipID=1283
I found it whilst hunting the fate of the tanker Diala.

Last record in Lloyds is 1945/46.


----------



## Baltic Wal (Jun 27, 2005)

ARGOS HILL of London
British Dry Cargo
Counties Ship Management from 1939 to 1945
Technical data:
Built by Halifax Shipyards Ltd., Halifax (Yard No. 4) January 1922
Engine information:
1 Steam T3Cyl 705 Nhp by Tidewater Shipbuilders Ltd., Three Rivers PQ Original dimensions:
430.00 x 56.20 x 34.80
7,178 Grt 4,413 Net 10,400 Dwt
All dimensions are in Imperial
Completed as CANADIAN CONSTRUCTOR for Canadian Government, Halifax (Canadian Government Merchant marine, managers.) 
1928: Canadian National Steamships appointed managers. 
1936: Transferred to Montreal, Australia New Zeaand Line Ltd. 
1939: Sold to Ernels Shipping Co. Ltd., London (Counties Ship Management Co. Ltd., managers); renamed ARGOS HILL. 
Sailed from Gravesend on passage from London to New York. 
4.7.1940: Bombed in engine room by German air attack in English Channel, off Portland. 
6.7.1940: Arrived at Portland for temporary repairs. 
7.8.1945: Caught fire in engine room in North Atlantic, 33om SbyW CapeRace. 
Crew abandoned ship. 13 survivors rescued by American ship NOAH BROWN and landed at Boston 10.8.1945. 
13 survivors rescued by American ship MONTCLAIR VICTORY and landed at Boston 9.8.1945. 
Three minesweepers attempted to fight fire. 
23.8.1945: Towed into St. John's Nfl., by Rescue tug TENACITY. 
Declared Constructive Total Loss, sold for breaking up.


----------



## stevecz (Feb 12, 2005)

Well done Baltic Wal, this is just the sort of information that is available from someone on SN.
All we need is the source of a picture, but maybe a bit too much to ask in this case.

She was apparently towed to to Sydney, Nova Scotia, in 1947 for scrapping, 

Official Number was 150465


----------



## michael james (Feb 12, 2005)

What a fantastically informative thread. Well done all concerned (Applause)


----------



## nigelcollett (Oct 26, 2005)

Hi all

Many thank's for the information - it's great, much more than I ever expected.

Thanks again

NigelC


----------



## Billy1963 (Jan 4, 2006)

National Maritime Museum has two decent photos of her for sale. Below is the negative numbers and address to order.

ARGOS HILL (Br) 50.1 1922 General cargo ex CANADIAN CONSTRUCTOR Ernels Shipping Co Ltd, (Counties Ship Management Co Ltd, managers)
G3555 (5S) B 1942-1943 At quayside, probably at Liverpool, prior to 11 May 1943.
P21467 (5S) B 1940-1945 At anchor.

Historic Photographs Section, 
National Maritime Museum, 
Greenwich, 
London, 
SE10 9NF
Tel: +44 (0) 20 8312 8600
Fax: +44 (0) 20 8317 0263
E-mail: [email protected]


----------



## Hugo (Nov 29, 2005)

I had a couple of years plus with Conties Ship Management on Empire Austen in 1947 to 1949, ship changed name to Frinton in Sydney. Spent a year on Indian coast lugging coal to anchourage portas, "lovely job", but Oz was great when we got there.
Hugo.


----------



## nigelcollett (Oct 26, 2005)

*Yet another WWII question? (part 2)*

Once again thanks everybody for the info.

On reading it properly however I notice STEVECZ mentioned the tanker Dalia.

This is also a vessel I am interested in so if your still out there Steve I would be grateful for any info you have on her.

Many thanks

NigelC


----------



## Billy1963 (Jan 4, 2006)

The Diala loss can be found at this link:

http://uboat.net/allies/merchants/1467.html

The British Officers lost named below are commemorated on Tower Hill Memorial Panel 35. The 35 Chinese crew lost are commemorated on the Hong Kong War Memorial.

BURGESS, Fourth Engineer Officer, FRANK, M.V. Diala (London). Merchant Navy. 26th February 1941. Age 27. 

DEAN, Second Radio Officer, ALAN, M.V. Diala (London). Merchant Navy. 15th January 1942. Age 28. 

EXTON, Chief Officer, WALTER THOMAS, M.V. Diala (London). Merchant Navy. 15th January 1942. Age 38. Son of Arthur and K. E. Exton; husband of Phyllis Irene Exton, of Isleworth, Middlesex. Master Mariner, Merchant Navy. 

FARRAR, First Radio Officer, RONALD, M.V. Diala (London). Merchant Navy. 15th January 1942. Age 26. 

GREEN, Third Officer, ALBERT EDWARD CHARLES, M.V. Diala (London). Merchant Navy. 15th January 1942. Age 25. Son of Albert Edward and Mary Gertrude Green. 

HULBERT, Apprentice, KENNETH JOHN, M.V. Diala (London). Merchant Navy. 15th January 1942. Age 20. 

KELLY, Third Radio Officer, ALBERT, M.V. Diala (London). Merchant Navy. 15th January 1942. Age 16. Son of John and Jane Watt Kelly, of Dundee. 

METCALF, Apprentice, WILLIAM, M.V. Diala (London). Merchant Navy. 15th January 1942. Age 18. Son of William Henry and Janet Metcalf, of Grindon, Sunderland, Co. Durham. His brothers, John Callum Metcalf and Ernest Gordon Metcalf, also fell. 

PALMER, Chief Engineer Officer, EDGAR CHARLES, M.V. Diala (London). Merchant Navy. 15th January 1942. Age 40. Son of Mrs. E. Palmer; husband of A. Palmer. 

ROBINSON, Fourth Engineer Officer, RICHARD, M.V. Diala (London). Merchant Navy. 15th January 1942. Age 23. Son of Richard and Bell Robinson, of Newbiggin-by-Sea, Northumberland. 

SEAR, Third Engineer Officer, THOMAS JAMES, M.V. Diala (London). Merchant Navy. 15th January 1942. Age 25. Son of Thomas Sear, and of Emma Sear, of Kelso, Roxburghshire. 

STREADER, Second Officer, GEORGE ERNEST, M.V. Diala (London). Merchant Navy. 15th January 1942. Age 27. 

TRESIDDER, Fifth Engineer Officer, HENRY JAMES, M.V. Diala (London). Merchant Navy. 15th January 1942. Age 25. Son of John Vincent Tresidder and Amy Tresidder. 

WITTY, Second Engineer Officer, RICHARD EDWARD, M.V. Diala (London). Merchant Navy. 15th January 1942. Age 29. Son of Richard and Lucy Edith Witty; husband of Cecilia Evelyn Witty, of Spring Bank, Hull.


----------



## Baltic Wal (Jun 27, 2005)

DIALA of London
British Tanker
Anglo Saxon Petroleum from 1938 to 1942
Technical data:
Built by Bremer Vulkan, Vegesack (Yard No. 757) November 1938
Engine information:
1 Oil 8Cyl 4.SCSA 502 Nhpby Shipbuilders Speed 12.0 knots 
Original dimensions:
483.30 x 59.30 x 33.80
8,106 Grt 4,781 Net 11,900 Dwt
All dimensions are in Imperial
Completed as DIALA for Anglo Saxon Petroleum Co. Ltd. 
Sailed from Avonmouth on passage to Curacao in ballast with convoy OB 290. 
25.2.1941: Torpedoed by German submarine U 47 in North Atlantic. 
One crew lost. 
28.2.1941: Arrived in Clyde with damage to No 6 & 7 tanks and pumproom. 
3.4.1941: Sailed from Clyde on passage to Tyne for repairs. 
31.12.1941: Sailed from Mersey on passage from Stanlow to Los Angeles in ballast with convoy OB 52. 
14.1.1942: Convoy dispersed due to heavy weather. 
15.1.1942: Torpedoed by German submarine U 553 in North Atlantic. 
48 crew and nine gunners lost. 
20.1.1942: Seven crew and one gunner rescued by British ship TELESFORA DE LARRINAGA. 
21.2.1942: Found waterlogged with bow missing by HM Ship. 
23.2.1942: Officers and nine ratings boarded hulk and taken in tow by HM Ship but tow parted. 
25.2.1942: Taken in tow by tug. 
26.2.1942: Tow parted and lost in heavy weather. 
19.3.1942: Wreck located. 
Sank between 1st and 5th April 1942.


----------



## stevecz (Feb 12, 2005)

The first Diala, built 1938 by Bremer Vulkan Schiffbau, Vegesack, Germany for Anglo Saxon Petroleum Co Ltd, London.
Length 165 ft, beam 59 ft, 8,106 Gross tons.
History,
Diala (1), (1938-1942 for Anglo Saxon Petroleum Co Ltd, London). 
Damaged 26/02/1941, torpedoed by U-47 W of Ireland, at position 55°50'N, 14°00'W, in convoy convoy OB-290. 
Damaged 16/01/42, torpedoed by U-553, 300 miles ESE of Cape Race, at position 44°50'N 46°50'W. On passage with convoy ON-52 from Stanlow to Panama and Los Angeles in ballast. 57 lost 8 survivors. Survivors picked up by the British merchant Telefora de Larrinaga and landed at New York. With the bow blown off she remained afloat and was reported drifting northeast. Four crew members from the British tanker Athelcrown (sunk by U-82 on 22/01/1942) found the abandoned, drifting wreck of the Diala and they remained on board for eight days before they were rescued by the Swedish merchant Saturnus and landed on the Faroes Isles. The wreck was finally sunk by U-587 on 23/03/1942, at position, approx., 47°N, 37°W.


----------



## nigelcollett (Oct 26, 2005)

Yet again I am flumuxed by the response - Great super

Many thanks everybody

I hope I can repay sometime

NigelC


----------



## wmeek (Jan 24, 2007)

*Canadian Constructor?*



stevecz said:


> Is this the one
> ex. "Canadian Constructor", for Montreal-Australia-New Zealand Line, 7,178 gross tons
> Sold in 1939 to Ernels Shipping Co. Ltd., managed by Counties Ship Management Co. Ltd., London.
> She was reported to have been by bombed & strafed by gunfire from an aircraft on 4th July 1940, but only damaged.
> ...


Hi folks. This photo was given to me years ago. Titled Canadian Constructor in Melbourne.


----------



## nigelcollett (Oct 26, 2005)

Hi Wmeek

Thanks for the pictures - interesting style of framing. Not one I have come across before.

Regards

NigelC


----------



## R58484956 (Apr 19, 2004)

A naive question. If ships were painted overall grey and I presume had no names painted on them in convoys, how is that people seemed to know the names of ships in their convoys.


----------



## nigelcollett (Oct 26, 2005)

Hi R58484956

A very good question which I was pondering on just this morning.

'Fraid just a bit before my time but I'm sure someone out there can help with an answer.

Regards

NigelC


----------



## vic pitcher (Oct 20, 2004)

nigelcollett said:


> Hi R58484956
> 
> A very good question which I was pondering on just this morning.
> 
> ...


Nigel
They all had painted name boards at bridge level


----------



## nigelcollett (Oct 26, 2005)

Hi Vic

Many thanks

nuther bit in the puzzle

Regards

NigelC


----------



## stan mayes (Jul 22, 2006)

As Vic states, names were on painted boards..
The boards were black painted with 18 inch high white lettering and were usually attached to each side of monkey island..
During the war I often saw two Dutch troopships JOHAN VAN OLDENBARNEVELT and MARNIX VAN SINT ALDEGONDE this ship sunk in 1943.. I think their names must have been considerably shortened on the nameboards...
Of convoys - All ships had an Official No. and a four lettered call sign.
If the Commodore ship wanted to contact a particular ship in the convoy,it would hoist code flags denoting the name of that ship followed by another hoist of code flags with a message... A frequent message to old rust bucket coal burners would be - Make less smoke ...


----------



## R58484956 (Apr 19, 2004)

Had a race once with the JVO whilst on the P&O Canton, both left Suez at same time making for Aden, it took us 3 1/2 days to overtake her and being on the 12/4 we used to open her up, at least on the midnight one. We eventually passed her and sent a message over to the 12/4 engineers which said " anything you can do we can do better" back came an answer" we are not overloading our engines"


----------

