# Navigation light?



## GRHH (Feb 27, 2007)

My late father left me a light that is similar in size and shape to a small ship's navigation light. It is copper and at the moment has plain glass instead of a lens. It has a brass hinged lid kept in place with two dogs and a brass name plate which says "METEORITE" and the number 25372. The odd thing about it is that its arc of visibility is 180 degrees. There are no vents which would indicate that it was not made for oil burning. It is portable in that it has a handle on the top and a brass fixing plate on the back.

Are there or were there any rivers or inland waterways that required a light with 180 degree arc of visibility. Could this light have come from a tug?

Is there anyone out there who can shed some light on this lamp? (no pun intended)


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## Pat McCardle (Jun 12, 2005)

GRHH said:


> My late father left me a light that is similar in size and shape to a small ship's navigation light. It is copper and at the moment has plain glass instead of a lens. It has a brass hinged lid kept in place with two dogs and a brass name plate which says "METEORITE" and the number 25372. The odd thing about it is that its arc of visibility is 180 degrees. There are no vents which would indicate that it was not made for oil burning. It is portable in that it has a handle on the top and a brass fixing plate on the back.
> 
> Are there or were there any rivers or inland waterways that required a light with 180 degree arc of visibility. Could this light have come from a tug?
> 
> Is there anyone out there who can shed some light on this lamp? (no pun intended)



Maybe it is from a locomotive?


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## lakercapt (Jul 19, 2005)

There were no ships navigation lights that had an arc of visibility of 180 degrees and they also had dioptic lenses.
Maybe made as an ornament!
Bill


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## Steve Birkenhead (Mar 9, 2007)

Anchor Light Maybe?


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## lakercapt (Jul 19, 2005)

Steve Birkenhead said:


> Anchor Light Maybe?


Anchor lights must have 360 degree's of visibility.
Bill


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## GRHH (Feb 27, 2007)

Thank you for your suggestions. The lamp was not made as an ornament and I think the glass at present was not original. I have checked with a local train buff and railway collector and as it was not orginally made for oil burning he does not think it is railway. I am aware that there are no navigation lights with a 180 degree arc but does anyone know if the are requirements for a 180 degree arc light in some other water way? Suez or an European inland waterway perhaps?


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## capkelly (Feb 13, 2006)

Its probably a stern Light, but without the dioptic lens and internal shades to give it the 135 degree regulation arc. The makers name "Meteorite" was certainly very common at sea


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## Tony Breach (Jun 15, 2005)

The 1960 Collision Regulations:
Rule 7: Power driven vessels of less than 65 feet in length
(b): when engaged in towing or pushing another vessel shall carry.
(ii): Either a stern light as prescribed in Rule 10 or in lieu of that light a small white light abaft the funnel or aftermast for the tow to steer by, but such light shall not be visible forward of the beam.

Maybe a bit obscure but nevertheless a legal 180 degree navigation light.

Nothing wrong with long term memory but don't ask about yesterday.
Tony


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## GALTRA (Mar 7, 2006)

I think Capkelly is right, the dioptic lens would bend the light to 135 degrees , I attach examples of Meteorite navagation lights, Charley.


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## GRHH (Feb 27, 2007)

To all of you who replied I thank you very much. (My edcuation is one step nearer to completion!). I wasn't aware that Meteorite was the name of a navigation light maker and from the photographs supplied I would hazard a guess that my light was indeed made by Meteorite although mine would appear to be an older model and slightly more 'used'. The number on the light could be a serial number as the quality of stamping on the brass plate is similar to that of the name.

I do think it could have been used for a tow to steer by as the light is smaller than those I was used to. Most of my ships had plastic lights with any spare or portable copper/brass ones being much larger.

Once again I appreciate the efforts of those who replied. Thank you.


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## Chris Woods (Nov 23, 2006)

*180º Navigation Lamp*

Hi,

In the '50s, before I went to sea, I was given a strange navigation light.
At first I thought it was a bulkhead lamp because it had a flat back (painted navy blue/grey) but it has a dioptric lens.

Overall probably about 6" high, heavy brass, with domed top to shed water.

No manufacturer's name, and no serial number.

No shades to control the arc.

No regular slot on the back for dropping into a bracket etc.

Not an ornament...definitely a working light, and certainly for navigational purposes because of its lens. 

Would Navy vessels require their navigation lights to have a serial number?

Is the colour of the paint on the flat back significant?

Why 180º?

As a long retired career M.N., this has always intrigued me.
Could add a photo if wanted.
Any thoughts?
Chris


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## david freeman (Jan 26, 2006)

it would be interesting to know the geographical location of where you originally purchased the lamp.
I put forward with respect that maybe the navigation lamp is a stern light, for a vessel on a non tidal waterway, and for a passenger trip boat/party boat trading after the hours of darkness, on say the Thames/Severn or Trent, or other river water way- I would hesitate to mention a british Waterways Canal passenger barge[here BW have requirements for Locks according to by laws?? in the hours of darkness or transit in the hours of darkness.
a BOT Class 5 [V] passenger vessel comes to mind.


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## Chris Woods (Nov 23, 2006)

*Navigation light*

Hi David,

many thanks for your reply. It was given me when I was a school kid but already showing an interest in going to sea. I suspect it was found in a junk/antique shop, and this would most likely have been in Brighton - long before anyone thought of a marina, or one of the boat yards in Shoreham.

I agree - my initial thoughts are that it is a stern lamp but looking at image 2, you may wonder.

It is really quite substantially built, for heavy weather I would assume and the electric lamp is in such a position that is is difficult to estimate the arc but it certainly doesn't look/like feel for a stern lamp, but then, I can't think what else it might be.

I am not aware of any special inland waterways requirements for navigation lights and had assumed their arcs of visibilities would be the same as for offshore

I hope the attached photos come through o.k. 
thanks again for your interest,
Chris


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## david freeman (Jan 26, 2006)

Hi Chris, interesting photos of the said subject light:
I have some questions for you to ponder:
1- the light is well built, but/however the elecrtic flex entry is neither on the side of the light-which I believe is more usual for a working navigation light.
2- should the entry for the electric flex be on the top of the light-not visable from the bottom, then is is definitely NOT a navigation light for a ship???
3/- Is there a fixing bracket on the rear of the light for fixing, it could be headmast light?? as an alternative to a stern light ,but doubtful for a ship??
4- The lamp /bulb as fitted is a ''bastard bulb'' the element is not in the center of the lens[Vertically].

ALL IS NOT LOST, HAVE YOU THOUGHT ABOUT THE LAMP BEING A NAVIGATION LIGHT FOR AN AIRCRAFT OR HOVERCRAFT- BRIGHTON HAS BOTH OR HAS HAD BOTH POSSIBILITIES NEAR TO HAND ??? YES.

If none of these reasons fit then I must draw the conclusion, and if the flex entry is on the back plate? then it is a most pleasant wall fitting for some internal decoration held in place by a bracket plate[not part of the lamp


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## Dickyboy (May 18, 2009)

Surely, if the light bulb was closer to the lens than the centre of the lamp, even with a 180deg angle lens, the light would show more than a 180deg arc? Sort of within the curve of the lens, if you see what I mean?


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## Barrie Youde (May 29, 2006)

Everything seems to point towards its being "a small white light abaft the funnel or aftermast for the tow to steer by, but such light shall not be visible forward of the beam", as identified by Tony at #8 above.

According to my ancient and pocket-sized Munro's Seamanship Primer ("sufficiently small to slip in a jacket pocket so that it can be studied whenever opportunty offers at sea, and in trams and buses when ashore") the same wording was used in Rule 3 (b) of the Colregs "which came into force on 1st January 1954 and replace the previous (1910) regulations".

The wording clearly explains why any navigation light should be constructed with an arc of visibilty of precisely 180 degrees. It serves to warn the vessel towed that the towing vessel is becoming broad on the bow (by allowing sight of her sidelights and masthead lights), before sight of the stern light is lost altogether.


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## david freeman (Jan 26, 2006)

Dickyboy said:


> Surely, if the light bulb was closer to the lens than the centre of the lamp, even with a 180 degree angle lens, the light would show more than a 180 degree arc? Sort of within the curve of the lens, if you see what I mean?


i am not sure if we see the position of the bulb in the same way?? in both a vertical and horizontal axis.
The bulb would have an element giving out brightness, and a marine navigation light is designed to project the full brightness of the [Flame-oil lamp] element-electric bulb from the centre curvature of the lens, and not the ribbed sections: further the bulb as you say would be , as the designed light be in such a position as to transmit the beam/ray of light, for the full ''arc'' of the lens as installed.
Bulbs of the electric variety for fittings as I am aware are not shaded, or partial out put of their luminescence, and issue light through a 360 degree arc???
The casing of the lamp, and extremity of the lens would I believe control the transmission of light in a controlled manner: Think and reason Navigation side lights[port and starboard 110 degree arc, anchor light 360 degrees, masthead and stern lights maybe 180 degrees or slightly more, or on a small boat a single light giving out from the same fitting [port-starboard- and masthead light, all controlled not by the bulb or lamp position, but by the overall design of the navigation light fitting.


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## Chris Woods (Nov 23, 2006)

*Navigation Light?*

Hi Guys,

Thank you all for your interest (David & Dick - I was full time B.P.)

Attached is a photo of the rear of the lamp.
No bracket - it was fixed by two bolts just seen vertically above and below the centre aperture. I believe they have been shortened from original

Electric cable passes through a small hole in the rear - no other apertures.

The original bulb would probably have been 12 v. and much smaller, although still proud of the back the lamp.

Looking at the shape of the lens, even though the bulb was relatively close to the lens, the arc projected could not have been greater than 180º 

The dioptric lens makes this sort of lamp unsuitable for decorative purposes providing too narrow a beam of light to be of practical use for general illumination.


So, the prize has to go to Barry for finding his Munro's (mine is buried somewhere in the loft), 
and my apologies to Tony for missing his reply.

Although I have often towed vessel (in emergencies) I have not worked on a vessel built for towing and so had not come across this since college, many decades ago:

"a small white light abaft the funnel or aftermast for the tow to steer by, but such light shall not be visible forward of the beam"

Thank you all for your help, and great to know at last what I have,
all the best,
Chris


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## Chris Woods (Nov 23, 2006)

*Navigation Light?*

David, 
the arc of the stern light is 140º which is 360º - the masthead's arc 220º is (which is the sum of the 2 sidelight),
and why I couldn't work out the 180º of my lamp,
Chris


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## Barrie Youde (May 29, 2006)

#18 

LOL!

Mine is heavily annotated by my girl-friend who later became my wife - and who listened patiently as I recited all!


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## Chris Woods (Nov 23, 2006)

*Navigation Lights?*

My Munroe's was so worn out I had to buy another copy!
It worked


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## Stephen J. Card (Nov 5, 2006)

Here is one of these little 'steering lights'. Shown on the mainmast of MARINIA. This not a normal stern light. The glass is simple and is not a lens. Does not have any screens like on a stern light. Oddly, there is no standard stern light. Can't even see it on the ship's rigging plan.

Yes, I'm the idiot up in the funnel (age 12).

Stephen


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## Chris Woods (Nov 23, 2006)

*Navigation Lights?*

Hi Stephen,

interesting looking ship
Chris


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## Stephen J. Card (Nov 5, 2006)

Chris Woods said:


> Hi Stephen,
> 
> interesting looking ship
> Chris



Overseas Towage & Salvage Co. Ltd. B. 1955. A small version of TURMOIL... and a lot less power! Chartered to Marine Board, Bermuda for harbour work, but did some offshore towing and also some salvage work, 1964 to early 1966. 

To my eyes she is more beautiful that the Queen Mary!

Also another view of the towing light. Slightly off centre line on the mainmast. I suspect is doubled as a stern light as well.

Also a view of her on trials outside the Humber, 1955.

Stephen


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