# A print .Lusitania or Mauritania?



## eyore (Oct 16, 2007)

Just bought two prints today, both are by well known ship artist Sam JM Brown and are of Liverpool.

I am trying to identify the Cunard ship and it seems to me to be either Lusitania or Mauritania. Is it possible from the photo to differentiate between the two assuming of course I am correct in thinking its one of these two Cunarders,


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## TOM ALEXANDER (Dec 24, 2008)

I can't tell you the identity of the ship, but I can say that the artist appears to have made a presumption about the function of the funnels. I believe that on all those Cunard/White star liners, the aft funnel was a dummy one, so boiler smoke would not be seen coming from it. I do stand to be corrected, however, should anyone have more inside knowledge? (POP)


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## cueball44 (Feb 15, 2010)

eyore said:


> Just bought two prints today, both are by well known ship artist Sam JM Brown and are of Liverpool.
> 
> I am trying to identify the Cunard ship and it seems to me to be either Lusitania or Mauritania. Is it possible from the photo to differentiate between the two assuming of course I am correct in thinking its one of these two Cunarders,
> 
> ...


Just had a look in the gallery, and I would say it is the "Mauretania". Have a look and see what you think. It's the bottom left hand photograph.


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## eyore (Oct 16, 2007)

TOM ALEXANDER said:


> I can't tell you the identity of the ship, but I can say that the artist appears to have made a presumption about the function of the funnels. I believe that on all those Cunard/White star liners, the aft funnel was a dummy one, so boiler smoke would not be seen coming from it. I do stand to be corrected, however, should anyone have more inside knowledge? (POP)


Well apparently it was originally designed with three funnels as you rightly say, but the turbine design was subsequently changed which necessitated a fourth which was indeed a real funnel as per this photo.

http://digitalcollections.smu.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/eaa/id/106/rec/4

Incidentally I do think it is the Mauritania as Cueball suggests,Mauritania had different cowl ventilators to the Lusitania's barrel shaped ones.


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## cueball44 (Feb 15, 2010)

It looks like your print was created from the photo I mentioned, but the artist changed the background image. The walkway/observation/viewing platform on the stern is different from the Lusitania and Aquitania.


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## eddyw (Nov 6, 2007)

I think definitely meant to be Mauretania give the size of the ventilators. (Lusitania's were markedly smaller).
Comparison pics -
Mauretania :http://www.photoship.co.uk/JAlbum Ships/Old Ships M/slides/Mauretania-64.jpg
Lusitania: http://www.photoship.co.uk/JAlbum Ships/Old Ships L/slides/Lusitania-34.jpg


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## eyore (Oct 16, 2007)

eddyw said:


> I think definitely meant to be Mauretania give the size of the ventilators. (Lusitania's were markedly smaller).
> Comparison pics -
> Mauretania :http://www.photoship.co.uk/JAlbum Ships/Old Ships M/slides/Mauretania-64.jpg
> Lusitania: http://www.photoship.co.uk/JAlbum Ships/Old Ships L/slides/Lusitania-34.jpg


Indeed,Eddy. Fascinating what details get thrown up when you look into something closely. Anyway I am really delighted to have a definitive id on the print, thanks for the responses(Thumb)


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## Leratty (Jun 3, 2012)

was it the Mauretania or Aquitania that was sunk in the Med during WW1 I think by mine or could have been torpedo? I recall seeing a wonderful doco on the finding of her & the exploration there of I think by a French team?


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## eyore (Oct 16, 2007)

Presumably the Aquatania, as the Mauritania had a long and successful career before being retired in 1934 and scrapped in 1935.


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## Tmac1720 (Jun 24, 2005)

Leratty said:


> was it the Mauretania or Aquitania that was sunk in the Med during WW1 I think by mine or could have been torpedo? I recall seeing a wonderful doco on the finding of her & the exploration there of I think by a French team?


That was HMHS Britannic, sunk of Kea Island in Greece. She was a sister ship of Titanic and Olympic.


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## Keith Adams (Nov 5, 2006)

Hi Guys, sorry to be pain but she is the "Aquitania" which vessel resumed liner service in peace time colours Liverpool/New York service after WWII in conjunction with the new "Mauretania", "Franconia" etc. saw her many times as she maintained a regular service ... she had the most beautiful ornate counter ... never tired of seeing it from the Wallasey Ferry boats. Think she went to scrap when the new "Caronia" came into service. Cheers, keith.


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## Stephen J. Card (Nov 5, 2006)

Nope.. definitely it is MAURETANIA.


1. LUSITANIA did not have the tall white cowl vents - MAURETANIA did.


2. The AQUITANIA had two open promenades midships... and a wide white band of portholes below the promenade decks. This is Mauretania.



Definitely a bit of artistic license... but has to be Mauretania.


Stephen


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## Keith Adams (Nov 5, 2006)

Hi Stephen ! I yield ... no artist would have left off the gold painted heavy scroll work the "Aquitania" had, besides ... I do not recall seeing such an unsightly Docking Bridge ! A question arises ... did we have Blue RNR Ensigns before WWII ? Artistic license abounds as the distance between the Cunard Building situated between the Liver Building and the Mersey Docks and Harbour Building was not that wide. Terrific painting showing a typical Half to High Tide river activity that came to an end in the late 1960's... great pity. Keith.


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## Stephen J. Card (Nov 5, 2006)

Hi Keith,

Just saw your message from about month ago. I meant to get back to you.

Lots of photos in the SN Gallery for Aquitania. Here is one of the photos from one of Clyde's collection... sorry cropping.

Sorry mate... no scroll work on counter stern of AQUITANIA. She also had the docking bridge similar to MAURTANIA and LUSITANIA.

Only ship I can think of that had scroll work as you describe was MAJESTIC (White Star) and LIVIATHAN (United States Lines).... both up to late 30s.

Blue Ensign.... goes back a few centuries... back in the days of the colours of the fleets... the Red, White and Blue. Eventually whit was used by the RN, red was for the Merchant Marine and the blue for the RNR... and other purposes.

Hope helpful?

Stephen


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## fred henderson (Jun 13, 2005)

Going back to an earlier post - all ships built for Cunard had fully working funnels. Most White Star ships had a dummy funnel. During the period 1910 to 1930 Harland & Wolff seemed to suffer from a dummy funnel addiction and could not build a passenger ship without one. (Jester)


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## Stephen J. Card (Nov 5, 2006)

So true! 

;-)


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## david freeman (Jan 26, 2006)

was it either the sister ships Olypic or majestic??


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## Stephen J. Card (Nov 5, 2006)

OLYMPIC had a 'dummy' funnel. Of course for asthetic purposes but was also a vent for engineroom... I'll bet it made engineroom made cooler in summer. 

MAJESTIC... was built at BISMARCK for HAPAG and in Blohm & Voss. Three funnels but the no. 3 was a dummy... again asthetic purposes... but also for flue for galley abd as a vent.


BRITANNIC AND GEORGIC. Two funnels, the forward one was a dummy. Motor ship and needed only one. As before, asthetic purposes.... but on these ships it was the Radio Room and in postwar... the radar 'thingy' was on top of the funnel.

Stephen


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## Paul_Lee (May 2, 2008)

Just a few points: the Olympic/Titanic/Britannic's fourth funnel wasn't technically a dummy - it did have a function albeit ventilation and venting smoke from the fireplace in the 1st class smoking room directly below: http://www.paullee.com/Ship_Pictures/1923-liner32.jpg

Also, I've been trawling through journals and newspapers in my local University library and am starting to put up photos of the Mauretania, Lusitania and Aquitania. Theres a a fair number of the first and I've just started on the other two, some are quite rare and unfortunately I've had to watermark some of them due to the antics of Facebook groups.

http://www.paullee.com/photoalbum/


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## chadburn (Jun 2, 2008)

Stephen J. Card said:


> OLYMPIC had a 'dummy' funnel. Of course for asthetic purposes but was also a vent for engineroom... I'll bet it made engineroom made cooler in summer.
> 
> MAJESTIC... was built at BISMARCK for HAPAG and in Blohm & Voss. Three funnels but the no. 3 was a dummy... again asthetic purposes... but also for flue for galley abd as a vent.
> 
> ...


There is no doubt that the number of Funnels in those years was a matter of prestige, this thinking went down the line to the smaller coastal day trip vessels like the first 'Caronia' built for Jack Ellis of Scarborough which had two Funnels but in reality only required the one.
FYI, the interior of the 'Majestic', she was designed to be Coal fired.


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