# P & O Flag switch



## funnelstays (Nov 19, 2008)

Due to the uncertainty of Brexit the Spirit of Britain is now registered in Cyprus.You can't make this stuff up or can you?


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## Erimus (Feb 20, 2012)

You missed the two previous threads on this...all 6 of the Channel Ferries are being transferred to Cypriot by their owners who are Dubai World,not English or American. The Irish Sea vessels remain unchanged, they are registered in Nassau,Bahamas.

geoff


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## callpor (Jan 31, 2007)

Geoff,

I just noted from LinkedIn that DP World has today announced their purchase of all P&O assets including 21 ferries and Ferrymasters.

Chris


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## Erimus (Feb 20, 2012)

Hey thanks Chris...they are the only ones with brass these days!
Shame but at least the ships will keep on running.

geoff
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-d...ased-po-ferries-for-322-million-idUKKCN1Q90L3


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## funnelstays (Nov 19, 2008)

It"s opportunistic if you ask me.They can now dodge out off NI contributions.
Why an FOC why not the Dutch flag that would make sense.
As the old saying goes "if the shoe fits wear it"!


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## Brian Dobbie (Nov 18, 2005)

funnelstays said:


> It"s opportunistic if you ask me.They can now dodge out off NI contributions.
> Why an FOC why not the Dutch flag that would make sense.
> As the old saying goes "if the shoe fits wear it"!


Are you sure they can stop paying NI Contributions?
If the Sea Staff are still employed by a UK based company then NI must be paid.


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## john fraser (Jul 29, 2005)

Brian Dobbie said:


> Are you sure they can stop paying NI Contributions?
> If the Sea Staff are still employed by a UK based company then NI must be paid.


Sailed with a UK based company. head Office in Uk but their offices in HK Singapore or Isle of Man paid our wages. No NI then paid by company. I used to pay voluntary Class 2 to cover me for my pension.Glad I did.There were others who didn,t


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## Brian Dobbie (Nov 18, 2005)

john fraser said:


> Sailed with a UK based company. head Office in Uk but their offices in HK Singapore or Isle of Man paid our wages. No NI then paid by company. I used to pay voluntary Class 2 to cover me for my pension.Glad I did.There were others who didn,t


I worked for a UK based company and was paid through the UK and NI was paid, ships could be registered anywhere.
The Sea Staff at Dover, are they paid through a foreign company? if they are then they wouldn't pay NI but if they are paid through a UK company then NI is payable.
If your contract of employment is foreign and your ship is foreign registered then Class 2 are not excepted by the UK Pension Service.
I know because I sailed on Liberian Flag with a German based Management Company and all Class 2 were refunded. Even although my contract was written in English law.
Didn't really matter as I had 35years in NI Contributions anyway so I saved a lot of money.


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## TommyRob (Nov 14, 2010)

A flagged out company will undoubtedly view its 12% or so NI employers' contributions as a very worthwhile saving and arrange its affairs accordingly. John Fraser is bang on the mark. You can buy out unfunded years later in life but not many ordinary folk are that well positioned to do so.


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## Biggles Wader (Jul 18, 2013)

callpor said:


> Geoff,
> 
> I just noted from LinkedIn that DP World has today announced their purchase of all P&O assets including 21 ferries and Ferrymasters.
> 
> Chris


This is a bit of creative accounting I think as Dubai owns both companies involved here. P&O ferries has been owned by Dubai for many years. The flagging out is a different issue and keeps the ships registered in the EU which they wont be if they stay British.


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## callpor (Jan 31, 2007)

Biggles Wader said:


> This is a bit of creative accounting I think as Dubai owns both companies involved here. P&O ferries has been owned by Dubai for many years. The flagging out is a different issue and keeps the ships registered in the EU which they wont be if they stay British.


Biggles, as you say, a bit of creative accounting? Quoting Reuters report yesterday:-
"DP World has bought back British ferry and shipping freight operator P&O Ferries for 322 million pounds ($421 million), more than a decade after it sold it.

DP World acquired the British shipping and logistics company in 2006 but soon sold off some assets, including P&O Ferries to its major shareholder, state holding company Dubai World.

DP World announced on Wednesday it was buying the company, and a spokeswoman later told Reuters it had bought it back from Dubai World." Cheers, Chris


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## James_C (Feb 17, 2005)

Brian Dobbie said:


> Are you sure they can stop paying NI Contributions?
> If the Sea Staff are still employed by a UK based company then NI must be paid.


The company may be UK registered and based, but that doesn't mean that the technical employer is so. For the past 13 years the two companies I've worked for have been UK registered with UK flag ships with UK crews, however they then use a subsidiary based on a PO box in Guernsey and it is they who technically employ the crew. 
As Guernsey is not part of the UK that means that the employer is not required to pay national insurance, however the employee is not relieved of that obligation and must continue to pay full class 1 contributions as they are sailing on British flag ships.
Even state owned companies are doing this, e.g. Calmac, SFPA as well as private companies like Northlink (Serco), the former RMAS fleet (also Serco), PNTL, Foreland Shipping etc.


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## Brian Dobbie (Nov 18, 2005)

James_C said:


> The company may be UK registered and based, but that doesn't mean that the technical employer is so. For the past 13 years the two companies I've worked for have been UK registered with UK flag ships with UK crews, however they then use a subsidiary based on a PO box in Guernsey and it is they who technically employ the crew.
> As Guernsey is not part of the UK that means that the employer is not required to pay national insurance, however the employee is not relieved of that obligation and must continue to pay full class 1 contributions as they are sailing on British flag ships.
> Even state owned companies are doing this, e.g. Calmac, SFPA as well as private companies like Northlink (Serco), the former RMAS fleet (also Serco), PNTL, Foreland Shipping etc.


However if the Sea Staff are employed by a UK based company then to employ them offshore the contracts of employment have to be re-written and redundancy paid. 
Sailing on UK flagged ships but employed offshore is a different situation.
Filipinos sailing on UK flagged ships employed through an offshore company pay Class 1 NI ???
To buy extra years for pension purposes voluntary class 3 can be paid but I think you have to be a UK resident, anyhow if you had 30years in before 2016, then it was pointless as 30years earned you a maximum state pension depending on personal cir***stances.
Class 2 and class 4 are usually for self employed depending on salary earned.


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## James_C (Feb 17, 2005)

Brian Dobbie said:


> However if the Sea Staff are employed by a UK based company then to employ them offshore the contracts of employment have to be re-written and redundancy paid.
> Sailing on UK flagged ships but employed offshore is a different situation.
> Filipinos sailing on UK flagged ships employed through an offshore company pay Class 1 NI ???


Shifting contracts offshore doesn't necessarily mean redundancy and re-employment, as TUPE has been used in the past with the terms and conditions remaining the same but with the employer technically changing. In any event, unless there are specified redundancy provisions in a contract then the UK minimum applies: min 2 years service before quallification for redundancy, 1 weeks pay for every year served under the age of 31 and 2 weeks pay for every year served over the age of 31. Even with redundancy, NI savings (amongst others) will more than compensate the employer.
My current mob employ mostly Brits, but also a number of Irish, Europeans and a few other odds and sods some of whom are resident here, some not (we have people who live as far afield as Canada and Thailand and everywhere in between). All pay class 1 NI. 
I don't know if some or all of it can be claimed back for those that live abroad, but some certainly claim their income tax back.


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