# Trinder Anderson



## geoff smith 1932 (Apr 12, 2008)

I am seeking information on the history of Trinder Anderson ,managers of the Avenue Line.(NZSCo).
Geoff.


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## gdynia (Nov 3, 2005)

Geoff

You will find alot of info on them at
http://www.theshipslist.com/ships/lines/australind.htm


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## Richard Maskiell (Apr 4, 2007)

OJ Trinder and JR Anderson were clerks for Anderson, Anderson & Co, managers of the Orient Line. They left in 1874 to form Trinder, Anderson & Co. They had interests in the Queensland emigrant trade in the 1870’s and in the 1880’s became interested in the WA trade. They were shareholders in WA SN Co formed in 1886. Trinder Anderson owned the Australind S Sg Co (Federal had a minority stake), formed 1904 for trading between WA and SE Asia (hence the name AUSTRALia-INDies). The Federal-NZS link was expanded when Trinder Anderson managed the NZS ships assigned to the MANZ Line (Montreal-Australia-NZ) from 1936-66. They were also appointed managers of Avenue Sg Co which was registered 4 Sep 1954 as a subsidiary of NZS to operate non-fully reefer ships (4 of them). Avenue was folded into the P & O General Cargo Division from 1 Oct 1971. They also seem to have had connections with companies such as Houlder and Scottish Shire, presumably as loading brokers.


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## geoff smith 1932 (Apr 12, 2008)

*Trinder Anderson.*

Thanks for info.The history of shipping companies is certainly a most convoluted subject.
Regards Geoff.


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## dave beaumont (Jul 2, 2005)

Whats your interest in Line Geoff? I was on Antrim and Donegal for a few trips.Did you sail with Trinders at all? Cheers Dave


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## Locking Splice (Oct 28, 2006)

Hi Geoff,

Excellent full company history and and 24 photos in "Ships in Focus" (Issue number 1).

Best Regards

Yuge


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## J Boyde (Apr 7, 2005)

I went to Wellington thinking I was to join an NZS ship. It was the Galway that I joined. Still NZS by some of the P and O confusing system. Apart from the Galway I sailed on the Ashburton, the Araluen, and coasting in the UK on the Donnegal. Nothing like wondering what colour your next ship will be. ( turned out the USSco, differerent green in NZ, but still P and O)
Jim B


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## dave beaumont (Jul 2, 2005)

Also a good history of fleet and pictures of all the Avenue Ships in Crossed Flags, publication put out by World Ship Society a few years ago on the history of N.Z.S.Co, Federal and their subsidiaries. Dave


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## geoff smith 1932 (Apr 12, 2008)

*Trinder Anderson.*

I was in NZSCo & Federal ,we used to see the "K" boats from time to time but never really understood the connection.Then "Enton" appeared but only for a short time,the next time I saw her she was in Avenue colours and had been renamed.
Regards Geoff.


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## janathull (Aug 31, 2005)

I was on the Antrim when they changed her to P&O colours in Hull. Cheers janathull


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## dave beaumont (Jul 2, 2005)

Thats when her and others lost their own identity and wore those horrible P&O colours. I sailed with Captains Luck and Murray and Bosun Wally Green on Antrim and guy called ? Fraser was Bosun on Donegal. Any names ring a bell janathull? Cheers Dave


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## geoff smith 1932 (Apr 12, 2008)

*Trinder Anderson.*

Birt,Potter,and Hughes established Federal Steam in the 1800s.
They took delivery of "Enton" in the 1950s.
What were they doing for the rest of the time,and who were they?
Geoff.


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## BeerSailor (Oct 18, 2006)

Geoff - I have on occasion tried to find out more about Birt, Potter & Hughes with little success. As you say, they were behind the formation of Federal in the late 1800's and their name does reappear in 1924-1934 as the owners of the old Avenue Shipping Company, although they only had two ships, the old Enton and the Winton. Allan Hughes was Managing director and a large shareholder in Federal and in 1912 Federal's fleet of 10 ships was absorbed into NZS by an exchange of shares. He joined the board of NZS and became Chairman in 1920, a position that he retained until his death in 1928. He played a leading part in the development of the Australian and NZ shipping trade and under his chairmanship NZS expanded and progressed. The only other mention I can find for Birt, Potter and Hughes is as owners of Enton 1952-55 but by then P & O had a shareholding in them. I have been unable to find out the part played by Birt and Potter, perhaps they disappeared from the scene at a very early stage and Allan Hughes retained the company name.
regards, Brian


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## janathull (Aug 31, 2005)

Hi Dave, Had a look in my book bu its signed by the chief steward called Stevens. Cant remember who was there but the bosun was a geordie. Cheers janathull


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## Richard Maskiell (Apr 4, 2007)

Brian,
Birt Potter & Hughes was an amalgamation of 3 companies--J Gavin Birt & Co, John Potter & Co and Allport & Hughes (of which Allan Hughes was a partner)--in 1895. Incorporated as Birt Potter & Hughes Ltd. on 25 Feb 1898. Other than the limited shipowning you mention my guess is that they acted primarily as agents. Certainly Birt & Co. the Australian arm was a major agent for many years. (Info derived from "Crossed Flags" referenced in an earlier post)


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## murty (Feb 3, 2008)

*Antrim*



janathull said:


> I was on the Antrim when they changed her to P&O colours in Hull. Cheers janathull


I joined the Antrim as an EDH 14/4/75 in Sunderland payed off Tilbury 19/5/75 rejoined her as the Strathinch 27/5/75 and was on board her at the changeing of the colours,payed off Avonmouth 22/10/75,so maybe we sailed on her the same time Janathull.


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## Ray Mac (Sep 22, 2007)

Joined the Australind in Sunderland Nove 61 out to Kiwi and back june 62, Nice ships.


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## averheijden (Jan 23, 2007)

L.S.

Who has information on the "mv WESTMEATH", built in 1939 by "Stephen", Linthouse yard, under the name KAIPAKI

1955 Westmeath, (Trinder Anderson) B.U.: Antwerp 8.11.1962 by J. de Smedt

Who was bulding the DOXFORD Engine with how many cylinders?

regards
Alfons


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## averheijden (Jan 23, 2007)

L.S.

Not long ago I got a letter from an *94 years Australian engineer*
Yes, 94 years of age and still in a very good shape, perhaps from the “sea breeze” 

He had made a trip with the *mv WESTMEATH * (Trinder Anderson) with a lot of trouble with fuel, which was all *“mousse”*

I will come back later what the reason was from that “mousse” (Chocolate color of the Fuel)
Perhaps, meanwhile, one of the engineers on this forum has experience with this “mousse”
I hope that they will react with their experience ! 

His letter:
<quote> _I was fortunate enough in the early days of qualifying for my Certificates
to have sailed in several ships with older type Doxford engines. 
Firstly I spent several years on the so called "economy" ships powered by
three cylinder units. These engines built on cast iron columns and
entablatures were the quietest I have ever encountered if not for the thump
thump thump of the scavenge pump. They were also most reliable.
Then they started to build fully welded engines and fitted them into fully
welded hulls and they became as noisy as any other make of engine.
The only complaint I have regarding all of these engines is that when they
age and wear takes place particularly on camshaft bearings the shaft drops
below design height and you can no longer set the fuel valves to the maker's
manual and must resort to indicator cards.
I must confess that I was never really comfortable manoeuvring these engines
as to turn the fuel pressure wheel and push the fuel lever to and fro is
somewhat similar to patting your head and rubbing your belly and at 94 I am
still not proficient in doing that!
I have been looking for some time for somewhere to make these simple
observations and trust this happens to be the right place _</quote>

Regards
*Alfons*


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## dave beaumont (Jul 2, 2005)

In regards to Trinder, Anderson, Avenue Shipping, does anyone know when P&O painted out the Avenue colours on the funnels. In Crossed Flags book it states that in 1971 the Antrim, Donegal and Galway passed into P&O management and that by March 1972 the new P&O livery was complete. I was on Antrim and Donegal from October 1971 to March 1973 and we flew the P&O flag along with Avenue flag but still retained Avenue colours. I know they got the full P&O paint job when they where renamed with Strath- names in 1976 but have never been able to find out when or if they did get colour change while still sailing with their Avenue names. Thanks Dave


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## averheijden (Jan 23, 2007)

averheijden said:


> L.S.
> 
> Who has information on the "mv WESTMEATH", built in 1939 by "Stephen", Linthouse yard, under the name KAIPAKI
> 
> ...




*mv Westmeath* built as Kaipaki, with a 4 Cylinder Doxford LB type, built by *BARCLAY Curle & Co Ltd,* Glasgow


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## woodig (Jun 20, 2006)

Hello, I have just found this site , my father was Capt John Wood ( Arran, Scotland ) who as far as I can find out / remember, he was chief officer on the Kiamata during the war and Master of the Australind 3 and the Armagh he did his last voyage on the Roscommon just before he died in Liverpool in 1961 aged 49 when I was 10. As far as I can remember he did most of his work for Trinder Anderson.
Ian Wood


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## Tonykshaw (Mar 5, 2015)

I'm glad I left Stricks when the ships were still adorned with red and blue chevrons. They were a good company as well, despite the initial voyages to the Persian Gulf, which I didn't mind. It allowed me to save up for better places like Mauritius and South Africa ! It would be interesting to know how Strick Line stalwarts fared when P & O took them over.


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## granty (Mar 17, 2008)

Hi
My brother Peter Grant joined Trinders in 56 and his last trip ended in 64 he was in the Ajana,Donegal,Australind and Limerick
Granty


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## judith george (Sep 5, 2014)

Hi Granty do you know when your brother was on the Donegal my Dad was on her 58/59


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## granty (Mar 17, 2008)

Hi
My brother was in her 08.60 to 02.62
Granty


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## judith george (Sep 5, 2014)

thank you Granty for getting back to me this was Dad's last deep sea trip before he left the Merchant Navy he was the taffy Bosun on her 

judith


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## Cutsplice (May 23, 2008)

The mention of Stricks brings back a memory of being in Greece on holiday some years ago. I briefly had contact with a lady who apparently was a personal secretary in Stricks, she told me that when new ships came on the scene they were divided between the brothers. Now that statement seems strange to me as P&O had quite a stake in the company, so how did it work sharing ownership between brothers with a large company in the fray also, was the brothers surnames Strick. I am sure someone will know the answers.


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## wearuk58 (Feb 6, 2016)

I was galley boy on the Australind in 73 sailed with Jim Nesbitt assist steward (recently passed) other names i remember are lad called Billy from Sunderland, Naggi donkey greaser from shields, Dennis moralis my cabin mate a lad called Shamus from newry (deck hand)


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## patnalordjim (Feb 25, 2016)

just seen this forum...I joined the Antrim Oct 1971, 3rd Mate, loaded Europe and discharged in Madagascar and Reunion. Great time in the Islands, Murray was Captain with his windjammer shorts, cant remember names....we then loaded copper ingots in Townsville and on the return voyage to the UK the cargo started shifting in #3 upper T/D bad weather of west Africa....long story but got it sorted. This was my last British ship before going out to Jardines HK....good times...Tudor Palmer


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## dave beaumont (Jul 2, 2005)

Hi Tudor, I was deck boy on this trip. We joined in Rotterdam. After unloading we went to dry dock for a week then started loading for another week then, Dunkirk, Rouen and Bordeaux, We went to Casablanca to load wine tanks I think then to Tuleur and Tamatave, Madagascar and Ponte del Galetes on Reunion Island. We then sailed to Townsville to load copper and lead ignots and back to Tilbury .We hit bad weather Bay of Biscay and nearly lost one of the lifeboats! I can remember you as I did my steering ticket on this trip and you were on watch some nights while I was steering. Wasn't a fan of Murray. Mate was Dickinson, Bosun Wally Green, Carpenter Frank Barbe . Great trip and great ports especially Tamatave.
Have a few pics in my gallery from trip. Rejoined Antrim next trip in Liverpool for Australian ports. Great to find some one from that trip. Dave (ozzie)


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## patnalordjim (Feb 25, 2016)

*antrim*



dave beaumont said:


> Hi Tudor, I was deck boy on this trip. We joined in Rotterdam. After unloading we went to dry dock for a week then started loading for another week then, Dunkirk, Rouen and Bordeaux, We went to Casablanca to load wine tanks I think then to Tuleur and Tamatave, Madagascar and Ponte del Galetes on Reunion Island. We then sailed to Townsville to load copper and lead ignots and back to Tilbury .We hit bad weather Bay of Biscay and nearly lost one of the lifeboats! I can remember you as I did my steering ticket on this trip and you were on watch some nights while I was steering. Wasn't a fan of Murray. Mate was Dickinson, Bosun Wally Green, Carpenter Frank Barbe . Great trip and great ports especially Tamatave.
> Have a few pics in my gallery from trip. Rejoined Antrim next trip in Liverpool for Australian ports. Great to find some one from that trip. Dave (ozzie)


Do you remember one of the ABs, smart guy, he built up your lounge aft, a Geordie...we went to school together indefatigable...


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## dave beaumont (Jul 2, 2005)

Can you remember his name?


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## patnalordjim (Feb 25, 2016)

dave beaumont said:


> Can you remember his name?


No, sorry that was why I posted....any photos available? I didn't manage any it seems and it was a good voyage too.


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## dave beaumont (Jul 2, 2005)

I remember the bar down aft. We started doing it up on this voyage but never really got it going until next trip to Oz coast. Have a look at pics in gallery of mine of Antrims voyages. Do you remember two of the deck crew getting logged at Tamatave for diving off the ship and swimming to beach other side of harbour after being told sharks where spotted there that morning!! Great trip.


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## D.J.C. (May 28, 2007)

*Kaituna, Kaipaki*



averheijden said:


> L.S.
> 
> Who has information on the "mv WESTMEATH", built in 1939 by "Stephen", Linthouse yard, under the name KAIPAKI
> 
> ...


 Kaipaki ended up as the Ashburton, and the Kaituna was the Armagh. I was on her when she was sold after her last trip to New Zealand. I went coastal on the Ashburton, U/K continent until she left the continent and had all that strife in Fiji. I sailed with Trinders from 1960-1966


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## averheijden (Jan 23, 2007)

D.J.C. said:


> Kaipaki ended up as the Ashburton, and the Kaituna was the Armagh. I was on her when she was sold after her last trip to New Zealand. I went coastal on the Ashburton, U/K continent until she left the continent and had all that strife in Fiji. I sailed with Trinders from 1960-1966


Hi D.J.C.

You conclusion must be a mistake in my opinion
For the Kaipaki see my message from 8 September 2014 as #21 

Regards
Alfons


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## uiuiui (Sep 16, 2016)

*Was aboard the Strathinch*



murty said:


> I joined the Antrim as an EDH 14/4/75 in Sunderland payed off Tilbury 19/5/75 rejoined her as the Strathinch 27/5/75 and was on board her at the changeing of the colours,payed off Avonmouth 22/10/75,so maybe we sailed on her the same time Janathull.


Hi a I joined the Strathinch on 27/05/75 as a first trip deck boy. Wayne. Rember we anchored off Sheerness waiting for a radio officer.


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