# Five masted schooner CITY OF PORTLAND



## fourmaster1250

Hello everybody,
some days ago I bought a press photograph on eBay showing the five masted schooner CITY OF PORTLAND. I don't have any information about that ship in my own archive and couldn't find any in the net - very strange for a ship of that size.
Does anybody know more about CITY OF PORTLAND?
Any information will be appreciated.
Reinhard Stadthaus
(fourmaster1250)


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## stein

The robots are not that good at reading old newspapers, but some information might still be gleaned from these two attempts;

Fri 5 Jan 1917
Page 4
AN AUXILIARY SCHOONER.


A_ ATXILIARY SCHOONER.
eecording to cable advices, the new
-Amnerican fxiliary five-masted schooner
City of Portland has soiled from the
Columbia River for Port "irie with a bli
cargo of lumber. The City of Portlan,?
is the first of the new auxiliary schoon
ers built by Messra. :Charles t. McCor
mick and Co., of St. Helena. Oregon, fo
the Australian timber trade, and just.
before the anst mail left San F'nne?lss
the schooner wr? taken for a run up the
Colombia fliver to take on fuel car?e
BIhe lmanated to make the distance of L.
sae. in tbree hours, meeting wlth n
icur-kcnot currenlt. " "The vessel way
deslgned to make eight knots under
power, and her showing during the trial is
etonsidereed remarkable, considering the
current and the stillness of the engine
bearing. The City of Portland is a five
tuasted 'bald-hended" schooner. t'no
jigger mast i? of hollow steel. The lmo.
tor exhaust is connected to it. All
smoeke emerges from the top of the mast.
The galley stove as well Is connected
to the tust. She has a length over all
of 278tt., beam of 4tft.. and depth of
hold ltfCt. Gin. She' Is fitted with two
semi-Diesel engines of 320 h.p, each. The
vessel has a fuel capacity of 1200 barrels
of oll. The ship is electrically lighted,
throughout. Approximately 300,000tt, of
timber for Port Pirle was carried on the
trial trip below deck, and the vessel
after taking fuel dropped back to the
mill of the Charles R. McCortmack Lum
ber Company to resume her loading. Shle
was built to carry a total cargo of.
2,000,000ft., but according to adviccs, she
had exceeded the expectations of hler
builders in tile matter of carrying capa
city, and by the time the decltload was
on it was expected that the total cargo
would be something like 2,400,000ft. A
crew of 20 'is carried.
_____________________________________________
I ALXILl ARA' SC1I0OM ft CITA' Ol' POTITI AND |
MIAVC VKTI L, XAoclnrsclax
I The five-maated auxiliary nehooner, City of Port* I
land. Jurhed in port this morninjr Irom Honolulu, I
via Port Pirie, This vessel waa launched in the «*rly
part of the year, and is the first of seven auxiliary
schooners beinjr built for C. It. MacConnack and
Co,t of San Francisco, to trade with timber cargoes
between the Unite*! States and Australia.

Do not miss this link, and do scroll downwards:

https://books.google.no/books?id=5D...onepage&q=schooner "city of portland"&f=false

There is a picture on page 124 of Jim Gibbs' "West Coast Windjammers", the caption reads as follows:With two million board feet of lumber packed below and on deck, the five masted auxiliary bald-headed schooner City of Portland put to sea for McCormick lumber interests - destination Australia - 1916


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## Stephen J. Card

Loading timber through the two ports low and near the stem. Probably no WT bulkheads either! 

Stephen


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## Basil

Is the other ship careened and the Portland set up to be hauled over?


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## Bootsmann

Looks like the PORTLAND is being used to righten the capsized sailer to the left, lots of wreckage on shore too.


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## Strickylad44

Another view >


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## fourmaster1250

stein said:


> The robots are not that good at reading old newspapers, but some information might still be gleaned from these two attempts;
> 
> Fri 5 Jan 1917
> Page 4
> AN AUXILIARY SCHOONER.
> 
> 
> A_ ATXILIARY SCHOONER.
> eecording to cable advices, the new
> -Amnerican fxiliary five-masted schooner
> City of Portland has soiled from the
> Columbia River for Port "irie with a bli
> cargo of lumber. The City of Portlan,?
> is the first of the new auxiliary schoon
> ers built by Messra. :Charles t. McCor
> mick and Co., of St. Helena. Oregon, fo
> the Australian timber trade, and just.
> before the anst mail left San F'nne?lss
> the schooner wr? taken for a run up the
> Colombia fliver to take on fuel car?e
> BIhe lmanated to make the distance of L.
> sae. in tbree hours, meeting wlth n
> icur-kcnot currenlt. " "The vessel way
> deslgned to make eight knots under
> power, and her showing during the trial is
> etonsidereed remarkable, considering the
> current and the stillness of the engine
> bearing. The City of Portland is a five
> tuasted 'bald-hended" schooner. t'no
> jigger mast i? of hollow steel. The lmo.
> tor exhaust is connected to it. All
> smoeke emerges from the top of the mast.
> The galley stove as well Is connected
> to the tust. She has a length over all
> of 278tt., beam of 4tft.. and depth of
> hold ltfCt. Gin. She' Is fitted with two
> semi-Diesel engines of 320 h.p, each. The
> vessel has a fuel capacity of 1200 barrels
> of oll. The ship is electrically lighted,
> throughout. Approximately 300,000tt, of
> timber for Port Pirle was carried on the
> trial trip below deck, and the vessel
> after taking fuel dropped back to the
> mill of the Charles R. McCortmack Lum
> ber Company to resume her loading. Shle
> was built to carry a total cargo of.
> 2,000,000ft., but according to adviccs, she
> had exceeded the expectations of hler
> builders in tile matter of carrying capa
> city, and by the time the decltload was
> on it was expected that the total cargo
> would be something like 2,400,000ft. A
> crew of 20 'is carried.
> _____________________________________________
> I ALXILl ARA' SC1I0OM ft CITA' Ol' POTITI AND |
> MIAVC VKTI L, XAoclnrsclax
> I The five-maated auxiliary nehooner, City of Port* I
> land. Jurhed in port this morninjr Irom Honolulu, I
> via Port Pirie, This vessel waa launched in the «*rly
> part of the year, and is the first of seven auxiliary
> schooners beinjr built for C. It. MacConnack and
> Co,t of San Francisco, to trade with timber cargoes
> between the Unite*! States and Australia.
> 
> Do not miss this link, and do scroll downwards:
> 
> https://books.google.no/books?id=5D...onepage&q=schooner "city of portland"&f=false
> 
> There is a picture on page 124 of Jim Gibbs' "West Coast Windjammers", the caption reads as follows:With two million board feet of lumber packed below and on deck, the five masted auxiliary bald-headed schooner City of Portland put to sea for McCormick lumber interests - destination Australia - 1916


Hello stein,
Thank you very much for the helpful information. That makes it a lot easier to understand the photograph and the story behind!
Regards
Reinhard


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## fourmaster1250

Strickylad44 said:


> Another view >


Hello Strickylad44,
Thank you very much for the helpful information. Now I even know the name of the capsized four-masted barkentine!
Regards
Reinhard


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## Strickylad44

fourmaster1250 said:


> Hello Strickylad44,
> Thank you very much for the helpful information. Now I even know the name of the capsized four-masted barkentine!
> Regards
> Reinhard


 Thank you for your reply. It's nice to help. I do like searching for ships that some can't find. (Thumb)


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## Basil

Bootsmann & Strickylad44, Thanks for the answers. I'm now much better informed. (Thumb)

As was allegedly said in a court:

Judge: "Following your presentation I find myself non the wiser."

Barrister: "No, M'Lud, but doubtless better informed!"


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## Strickylad44

Prinz Valdemar the capsized vessel >


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## Basil

Beautiful vessel.
Even Fyffes old steam turbo-electric 'S' boats still had counter sterns.


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## Strickylad44

The City of Portland shown here as 'The Paradise Show Boat' in Albany, near Madison Ave and Riverside Park.


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## Chillytoes

Wonder what Australian port, or ports, she delivered that timber to?


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## tunatownshipwreck

"St Helena Oregon" would actually be Saint Helens, Oregon.


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## spongebob

tunatownshipwreck said:


> "St Helena Oregon" would actually be Saint Helens, Oregon.


That might suggest that she carried US west coast timbers the likes of Oregon pine, Cedar or Redwood to Australia for the joinery industry ?

Bob


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## tunatownshipwreck

spongebob said:


> That might suggest that she carried US west coast timbers the likes of Oregon pine, Cedar or Redwood to Australia for the joinery industry ?
> 
> Bob


Very possible, Redwood mainly grows in southern Oregon and northern California, so that would probably be exported through Eureka or Coos Bay. Pine and cedar have been shipped through the Columbia River for a long time, but the most commonly exported tree was Douglas Fir.


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## spongebob

Tunatown, we call Douglas fir Oregon pine here in Nz .
I have great memories of the Union CO's SS Waitemata steaming into Auckland laden to her marks with North American lumber , mostly cedar that you could smell from 100 yards away. Most of this was for the window joinery trade and for weather boarding, now superseded by alloys and artificial claddings.

Bob


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## Stephen J. Card

Basil said:


> Beautiful vessel.
> Even Fyffes old steam turbo-electric 'S' boats still had counter sterns.



Not quite correct. ;-) These turbo-electric 'S' Class had CRUISER sterns. Where is the rudder? It is hung below a CRUISER stern. The PORTLAND had a COUNTER stern... with the rudder from the rudder post off the COUNTER.

Look at AQUITANIA, MAURETANIA, LUSITANIA.... all cruiser sterns. The OLYMPIC, TITANIC, BRITANNIC had counter sterns.

Stumped me years ago about this. Saw it in a Shipbuilder magazine from that period. The correct definition of the stern is "Cruiser Stern with Counter above".

Old Naval vessels in the 18th Century. Very narrow aft and rather low... the 'cruiser stern'.

I believe the combined cruiser & counter above was to improve of the flow from the propellers. Did the 'S' class have twin screws? I think they were. I don't think you could have a cruiser stern with a single screw.


Great photo, excellent detail. Probably the last passenger with this combined stern was on the INDEPENDENCE and CONSTITUTION.


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## Basil

Stephen J. Card,
Thank you, now much better informed (Thumb)

Anyhoo, they look much better than some of those new fangled boats.


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## spongebob

In ship loving terms, " Nice ****"

Bob


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## tunatownshipwreck

spongebob said:


> Tunatown, we call Douglas fir Oregon pine here in Nz .
> 
> 
> Bob


I still learn something new here.


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## Strickylad44

What kind of stern is this ? >


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## stein

Looks odd indeed. I am reminded of a discussion here a few years back regarding an Egyptian cruise ship that was heightened with a few decks, or else merely increased the passengers to carry. It was given floats welded to the sides to increase initial stability, and most commentators here declared themselves shocked. However, a Swede claiming to be an expert on the matter claimed everything was as it should be - the ship was perfectly safe. It could be something like that, and it could be something to do with the propulsion, something akin to a cavitation plate on an outboard motor. It loks to me more like my first suggestion though, and I still will not see that overall stability has been increased, if the ship is to traverse large oceans.

I have always thought that a cruiser stern was something like the stern on the Stavangerfjord, maybe because the cruisers I knew of had such a stern. However looking up the Norwegian word “krysserhekk” (cruiser stern) I found the definition that Captain Card gives above. I noted though that all the entries spoke solely of yachts, and gave as contrast a double ender with the whole of the rudder outside. Very few ships of any size had this system, and certainly no steamer or diesel driven vessel. So, even if I have come to regret it all the times I have doubted Captain Card's expertize, I cannot declare myself fully convinced that his definition is the only one in use.


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## Stephen J. Card

Hi Stein,

'Cruiser Stern' is definitely the same type as STAVANGERFJORD or QUEEN OF BERMUDA and on many well known vessels. Here is a US Torpedo vessel, also with the cruiser stern. The body at the end of the vessel is very full lines. Compared to the stern... counter stern of TITANIC. Very fine lines. AQUITANIA is a combination, cruiser below, counter above. My description was from the Shipbuilder Souvenir issue. The style of counter of AQUITANIA, MAURETANIA etc was only for 'style'. It neither added or detract from the function of rudders and waterline. That is pure cruiser stern. Even in AQUITANIA the steering gear is completely within the bulb, not high in the stern like TITANIC.

As for yachts etc using the name of 'cruiser stern', well they can call it anything they like but the true cruiser stern was the type that was used for fast naval vessels. Even some canal barge types call the stern a 'cruiser stern'.

Combination stern types? Look at Queen Mary 2. Appear to be with a well rounded cruiser stern. Look closer, at the waterline she actually has a flat transom stern.

Stephen


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## stein

We seem to have aggreed without me noticing it then. I am perhaps a bt dyslectic when there is no illustration present. What souvenir issue of the shipbuilder? I have got the one on Mauretania and the one on Aquitania (somewhere).

Here is a page from John H. Ladage: "Merchant ships: a pictorial study" Cambridge, Maryland 1955.


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## Stephen J. Card

Hi Stein,

I can't read my Shipbuilders right now. I am in North Atlantic at the moment, m.s. Spirit of Discovery on passage from Bermuda to Southampton. I'll dig for them as soon as I get back.

Back to definitions. I find that definitions for 'parts of ship' are sometimes incorrectly names... compared to old books as in 'merchant ship construction'. A bit like calling a ship 'it' instead of 'she'. Grrrrrr!

Did you find the photos I attached to No. 25?

Just in case.... All Best Wishes for the NEW YEAR!

Stephen


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## stein

Yes, thank you, I found them, and they are instructive. And a Happy New Year to you as well. And do have a good trip!


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## stein

Strickylad44 said:


> What kind of stern is this ? >


"A ducktail sponson is added to the stern of a vessel to increase waterline, add buoyancy and improve water flow." I read on the net. In addition, it shifts the longitudinal center of buoyancy aft reducing dynamic squat, and reduces pitch motion due to increased longitudinal moment of inertia, it is claimed. By those who perform this plastic operation on old hulls. It still looks odd to me, but I am not a naval architect, or even a cruise ship aficionado - I did not even know this was the ex Stockholm...:sweat: 

And by the way, what will you call the stern of a modern "block of flats" cruise ship? "A square cut off transom with a sponson ducktail underneath"?


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## Stephen J. Card

stein said:


> "A ducktail sponson is added to the stern of a vessel to increase waterline, add buoyancy and improve water flow." I read on the net. In addition, it shifts the longitudinal center of buoyancy aft reducing dynamic squat, and reduces pitch motion due to increased longitudinal moment of inertia, it is claimed. By those who perform this plastic operation on old hulls. It still looks odd to me, but I am not a naval architect, or even a cruise ship aficionada - I did not even know this was the ex Stockholm...:sweat:
> 
> And by the way, what will you call the stern of a modern "block of flats" cruise ship? "A square cut off transom with a sponson ducktail underneath"?



That is exactly what it is, but is usually called " a damn ugly boat".

Sad that STOCKHOLM her lost good looks.


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## Stephen J. Card

STERN OF LUSITANIA (Similar MAURETANIA and AQUITANIA)

"Lusitania ….. The admiralty demanded certain design choices, such as mandating the rudder be entirely below the waterline so it was not vulnerable to gunfire. Because of this, all of her steering machinery also had to be below the waterline, making it more difficult and expensive to maintain." 


This is what is about, the combination of cruiser stern with counter above. 'combined function and style'. Rather beautiful too!


Stephen


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## John Jarman

Just found this. A great informative thread - thanks all.

JJ.


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## aussiesparks

As the timber was destined for Port Pirie in South Australia it would suggest that it was a cargo of pit props for the mining industry which was large in that area and still is. There would not have been much furniture building but the timber may also have been used for house building.


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## spongebob

I would have thought that Australia would be well endowed with pit prop timber from the vast forests of eucalyptus trees that seem to thrive over much of the land.
Years ago before reinforced concrete or lattice steel structures became common place for power line transmission poles the port of Coffs Harbour in northern NSW was a big exporter of gum trees for the power industry and the Union co owned a specially built ship with a single very long hatch to carry same.
The ship was the Tauranga if I recall correctly.
In recent times I have driven inland near Coffs and have seen the vast man planted forests of huge gums as straight as a dye and reaching for the sky and no longer in demand as before.

Bob

Bob


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