# Telegraph dials



## Akaroa (Sep 19, 2021)

Have recently seen collection old glass segments for
bridge telegraph dials, full ahead, slow etc.., half
are red , half are blue glass ? 
blue not green.? 
Any reason/ideas ?
John .


----------



## gwzm (Nov 7, 2005)

Akaroa said:


> Have recently seen collection old glass segments for
> bridge telegraph dials, full ahead, slow etc.., half
> are red , half are blue glass ?
> blue not green.?
> ...


Is it possible the dials were illuminated by oil lamp? If so, the combination of yellow flame and blue glass would show as green. The starboard lights on old sailing ships with no electric power were lit this way.
Happy days,
gwzm


----------



## Stephen J. Card (Nov 5, 2006)

Akaroa said:


> Have recently seen collection old glass segments for
> bridge telegraph dials, full ahead, slow etc.., half
> are red , half are blue glass ?
> blue not green.?
> ...


'Traditionally' STOP & ASTERN telegraph segments are RED. The FORWARD segments might be BLUE or BLACK. The letters would show up WHITE. Or if the letters were black or blue, the back ground colour would be 'CLEAR'. The tint of the flame would be of no consequence. Even on modern telegraphs it is the STOP and ASTERN that are coloured RED. I think anyone on the bridge would be able to tell the telegraph was going to be forward or astern even by touch.

Telegraphs segments using RED and GREEN? Yes! Not on Engine Telegraphs, but on Mooring Telegraphs from bridge to bow and from bridge to stern and the segments are for port and starboard purposes. These type telegraphs might be used on large vessels, like large passenger ships. If this type the ship is likely more modern and everything is electric and no oil lamp would be necessary.


----------



## Akaroa (Sep 19, 2021)

gwzm said:


> Is it possible the dials were illuminated by oil lamp? If so, the combination of yellow flame and blue glass would show as green. The starboard lights on old sailing ships with no electric power were lit this way.
> Happy days,
> gwzm


Interesting thought…even into the 1960s traditional bridge
telegraphs often had a clip on oil lamp housing to back up
any electrical fitting?


----------



## Stephen J. Card (Nov 5, 2006)




----------



## Akaroa (Sep 19, 2021)

Stephen J. Card said:


> 'Traditionally' STOP & ASTERN telegraph segments are RED. The FORWARD segments might be BLUE or BLACK. The letters would show up WHITE. Or if the letters were black or blue, the back ground colour would be 'CLEAR'. The tint of the flame would be of no consequence. Even on modern telegraphs it is the STOP and ASTERN that are coloured RED. I think anyone on the bridge would be able to tell the telegraph was going to be forward or astern even by touch.
> 
> Telegraphs segments using RED and GREEN? Yes! Not on Engine Telegraphs, but on Mooring Telegraphs from bridge to bow and from bridge to stern and the segments are for port and starboard purposes. These type telegraphs might be used on large vessels, like large passenger ships. If this type the ship is likely more modern and everything is electric and no oil lamp would be necessary.


Hopefully this image will get through to clarify glass segments..
Yes take all your points with interest, most dials one sees on
bridge telegraphs are white/black on enamel with black/white
lettering…one point would question is that I had in past a heavy
bridge telegraph horizontal dial ,good bells, red, green segments
for full ahead/slow/stop etc, sometimes called a Naval telegraph
but also on liners, so not a docking one..(by Chadburns)


----------



## Stephen J. Card (Nov 5, 2006)

Please name the vessel. That might help. Size of vessel? Why called 'naval' telegraph? When was the ship build... approximate. What is the approximate of the telegraph? Could it be for a small naval vessel?


----------



## Stephen J. Card (Nov 5, 2006)

Ahhhh! I think this likely came from an engine room or bridge DESK mounted telegraph. This might be in addition to a normal telegraph and these were here were used as EMERGENCY TELEGRAPH is all else fails. I don't think it matters what the colours of the segments are. Could be any colour or no colour at all! These could be used today at any control position, central or even out at the bridge wing control system.


----------



## Stephen J. Card (Nov 5, 2006)

More. Naval Telegraph. Royal Naval vessel don't use MN type pedestal telegraph. Naval vessel used to have a telegraph down below and with a 'wheels' that are wind up rather than the handles we see on MN telegraph. More modern vessels have small desk similar as I posted above. You said ocean liners... yes they do, did and most other ships, but they are for emergency purposes. See below, this is emergency telegraph. For this vessel she would have CP propellers.


----------



## Stephen J. Card (Nov 5, 2006)

Again, there is no set rules for bridge/engineroom telegraphs, red, white, yellow, orange, green. Take your pick!


----------



## Stephen J. Card (Nov 5, 2006)

Lastly, the Emergency Steering Gear. This is the only one that MUST be in correct colour and part, Red and Green!


----------



## Akaroa (Sep 19, 2021)

Stephen J. Card said:


> Please name the vessel. That might help. Size of vessel? Why called 'naval' telegraph? When was the ship build... approximate. What is the approximate of the telegraph? Could it be for a small naval vessel?


Name the vessel..?! , obviously not from a particular vessel,
there is a whole box of them !…not my stock but perhaps
from a manufacturers leftover..have some age and because
of shapes would imagine intended for a round dial not as
per your later images of more recent console units.
Over the years have sold many telegraphs from my shop,
all genuine ones ,but never come across blue segments,
that’s the interesting part always something new!
The large bridge telegraphs,,often Chadburns, side wheel ,
flat top dial with pointer and bell were often known as Admiralty 
type from about 1910-20 ish as seen on views of the time on
battleships etc but also much used on Atlantic liners etc.


----------



## Stephen J. Card (Nov 5, 2006)

Akaroa said:


> The large bridge telegraphs,,often Chadburns, side wheel ,
> flat top dial with pointer and bell were often known as Admiralty
> type from about 1910-20 ish as seen on views of the time on
> battleships etc but also much used on Atlantic liners etc.



Why did you use the term 'naval' ? Had you said 'Admiralty Type' I would have known right off what you were talking about. These were used right up to the 90s . Good example can be seen on board HMY BRITANNIA>

OK, they came from a manufacturer's leftover. Where did you get them from? Foreign? UK? Scotland? North or South? Pretty hard to work out these things if you are not giving information. What about the dimensions of the pieces? Are the 1" or 6"? What about the pieces that has 'degrees'.... 5, 10, 15 etc? Why not put the pieces together on a table and then take a photo?


----------



## Stephen J. Card (Nov 5, 2006)

How the pieces would be fitted into the face of a telegraph and why they are made into pieces rather that one large piece in most telegraphs. Here is the telegraph from HMS DISCOVERY. Good solid brass face of the telegraph with glass pieces that could be fitted. Perhaps the pieces are older than you might assume.










Admiralty telegraphs on 'North Atlantic Liners;? Are you thinking about the Cunarders LUSITANIA, MAURETANIA, AQUITANIA? These ships had these fitted. Good reason, these vessels were built to Admiralty requirements for use as Armed Merchant Cruisers.


----------



## Stephen J. Card (Nov 5, 2006)

More.... The use of the 'blue' glass. If these pieces were used as in the telegraph on DISCOVERY then it might indicate that the pieces are older as John pointed out. The glass was 'cobalt' colour.


----------



## Akaroa (Sep 19, 2021)

Stephen J. Card said:


> Why did you use the term 'naval' ? Had you said 'Admiralty Type' I would have known right off what you were talking about. These were used right up to the 90s . Good example can be seen on board HMY BRITANNIA>
> 
> OK, they came from a manufacturer's leftover. Where did you get them from? Foreign? UK? Scotland? North or South? Pretty hard to work out these things if you are not giving information. What about the dimensions of the pieces? Are the 1" or 6"? What about the pieces that has 'degrees'.... 5, 10, 15 etc? Why not put the pieces together on a table and then take a photo?





Stephen J. Card said:


> Why did you use the term 'naval' ? Had you said 'Admiralty Type' I would have known right off what you were talking about. These were used right up to the 90s . Good example can be seen on board HMY BRITANNIA>
> 
> OK, they came from a manufacturer's leftover. Where did you get them from? Foreign? UK? Scotland? North or South? Pretty hard to work out these things if you are not giving information. What about the dimensions of the pieces? Are the 1" or 6"? What about the pieces that has 'degrees'.... 5, 10, 15 etc? Why not put the pieces together on a table and then take a photo?


Think most people understood that the Admiralty were known to
operate naval ships.! …yes ,Admiralty pattern for those telegraphs as
I have stated before..
As already stated they are not my stock so haven’t seen them, was
just interested before they put into a Maritime auction in June in
Exeter cannot comment where from as they not mine!
Again as already said ,yes they are older than modern ones you
have shown…glass sizes approx 3 1/4” x 2. and Ahead/Astern 
ones 4” x 2” 
Cannot say more, off end of week to maybe buy a Bloctube one etc…
John


----------



## Stephen J. Card (Nov 5, 2006)

Akaroa said:


> Think most people understood that the Admiralty were known to
> operate naval ships.! …yes ,Admiralty pattern for those telegraphs as
> I have stated before..
> John


Of course people know that the Admiralty operates ships, but I dobt a fraction of people know what a Admiralty Pattern Telegraph even is!

Stephen


----------



## tdg1943 (Dec 6, 2021)

A bit off-topic but it does contain the word _Telegraph; _More years ago than I really care to remember I was on watch preparing to leave port when the bridge phoned down asking to test the telegraph - usually a very boring and routine event. So it was a bit of shock to find the 1960s Chadburns electric telegraph now showing 180 degrees out of phase from the required position. After much chasing around for a couple of hours we found a broken wire shorting onto a terminal. An easy fix this time compared with my previous telegraph incident when the chain broke on a 1948 Chadburns chain telegraph.
\


----------

