# Foundered at sea



## looneylectrics (Nov 17, 2006)

Where would I find what happened to 62476 Her Majesty a Barque out of Sunderland. As far as I can make out she foundered at sea around 16-12-1881 but if she foundered would that mean that the log book went down with her. My Great Grandfather John Matthew Adams was listed as a crew member carrying "Only Mate" certificate. It seems to me that as mate he would be responsible for navigation so I would like to find the full story.

Any help would be much appreciated, Thanks Looneylectrics.


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## wightspirit (Feb 15, 2008)

Here are two newspaper reports: The Times, 21 December 1881. Latest Shipping Intelligence. A telegram from St Kitts states that Her Majesty, British barque, has foundered at sea. Part of the crew were landed at St Kitts. The Her Majesty is a vessel of 370 tons built at Sunderland in 1868 and is owned by Mrs A Lister of Sunderland.

Newcastle Courant, 20 January 1882. Foundering of a Sunderland barque. The barque Her Majesty of Sunderland, from Trinidad to Dieppe, has foundered between the islands of St Kitts and Tortola. The mate and six men were landed at St Croix and the remainder of the crew at St Kitts. 

You might be able to find more from a Sunderland newspaper of the time or probably by contacting a library or archive in St Kitts, where a more detailed report might have been recorded.

Dave W


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## looneylectrics (Nov 17, 2006)

Thanks Dave that's great, I thought she had gone down on the British Coast. Now I'm thinking I should book a holiday in St Kitts, 1 day to look it up in the archives and 6 to sit in the sun on the beach with a rum and coke. 

Would there have been an inquiry and who would keep the results?


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## Roger Griffiths (Feb 10, 2006)

This will give you some info

http://www.plimsoll.org/resources/SCCLibraries/WreckReports/14786.asp 

Roger


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## looneylectrics (Nov 17, 2006)

Fornicate my aged footwear Roger, that is the best.

It explains it all and nobody took a hit for it. I like the last bit where to paraphrase the Wreck Commissioner he said that seamen have to go to sea in vessels with seaworthiness? problems or go to jail. Although in this case we did see crew members being discharged in a foreign port. "elf and Safety" would have a field day with that nowadays (seaworthiness).

Now I've got to look for the story of the 4 days in an open boat before making land. In his application for a Master Mariners Certificate it states that a year later he was shore from 16-12-82 to 26-4-84 sick from the affects of a shipwreck.

Thanks again Roger, and thank you Dave.

Alan.


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## eriskay (Mar 26, 2006)

*Wrecksites - for Roger Griffiths*



Roger Griffiths said:


> This will give you some info
> 
> http://www.plimsoll.org/resources/SCCLibraries/WreckReports/14786.asp
> 
> Roger



Roger - as always your contributions are interesting and of course are very helpful to the enquirer. Could I ask you a question, please? The wrecksite database link you provide only goes as far as 1951, is there an equivalent website that covers up to, say, 1955 ?

Thanks,

Angus


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## Roger Griffiths (Feb 10, 2006)

Hello Angus,
As far as I am aware those are the only wreck reports avaliable online. Southampton Central Library has originals to what date? I don't know. I understand there are some at Liverpool Maritime Museum. There are some individual ones at the National Archives but since they buggered about with the catalogue I cannot give you a link. Southampton Central Library is your best bet.
Maritime Collection

Southampton Central Library

Civic Centre

Southampton SO14 7LW

Tel: 023 8083 2205

Fax: 023 8033 6305

Email: [email protected]

Roger


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## eriskay (Mar 26, 2006)

Many thanks for response, Roger, I will try contacting Southampton Central Library to see how I fare.

Thanks again !

Angus.


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## Roger Griffiths (Feb 10, 2006)

Alan, Do you have a certificate number for your Grandad?
The logbooks of HER MAJESTY 62476 for 1881 have been lost or destroyed. Her Crew agreement for the same date survives and can be ordered at a cost from
http://www.mun.ca/mha/holdings/searchcombinedcrews.php 

Roger


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## looneylectrics (Nov 17, 2006)

Hi Roger,
John Matthew's certificate for Only Mate is 08829 dated 1st Sept 1880. I'm in the middle of getting some things from the Maritime History Archive, I've already got some of my Grandfather Philip Arthur Adams crew lists and some of my Great-grandfather's and am now waiting for my own logging entries.
I saw they had crew lists for Her Majesty from 1881 but I thought the crew list for the last trip would have gone down with the ship but perhaps not. I think John Matthew paid off 14th Jan 1882 so it looks like he paid off when he reached head office.

Alan.


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## looneylectrics (Nov 17, 2006)

Roger,
when I was at Kew I took copies from their Microfiche of Masters and Mates Index but am having trouble deciphering them. One item is Dis 14-1-82 at 64, I get the discharge bit but what is the 64 all about. Where home ports numbered? Also it seems that an entry was put in the wrong column unless the poor bu**er was shipwrecked twice. The second one was 84544 Morning Star it seems to read "29-10 Dis at Bayonne by total wreck of Vessel C_recd 24-12" there is no year mentioned. On his application for Master Mariners cert it shows he was 2nd mate 16-6-82 to 4-7-82 then 3rd mate 4-7-82 to 30-10-82 but no mention is made of the Morning Star being lost,if it was and I was him I would have given up the sea, 2 ships in a row is a message.
Alan.


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## Roger Griffiths (Feb 10, 2006)

Port number 64 was London UK
Re MORNING STAR
http://www.shipsnostalgia.com/showthread.php?t=11904
She was built May 1882 by Irvine and co. Hartlepool Yard number 40

Have you got the information from Lloyds Captains register?
ADAMS, John Matthew b.Ramsgate 1857 C08829 S Shields 1885
vol.28 1885-1887; vol.43 1888,1895; vol.58 no voyages
listed; vol.73 1904,1906


Roger


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## looneylectrics (Nov 17, 2006)

Hi Roger,
I've been going through all my notes to see if I can find anything more the trouble is I never wrote my sources down so I can no longer go back and check things easily.

The other thread was very interesting. The Morning Star was wrecked on the 27th/28th Oct John Matthew signed off on the 30th Oct and joined the Marion 59788 on the 2nd Nov as Mate. He was very unlucky in his choice of ships as another vessel he was on sank in South Africa. He joined ships and paid off in some strange places. He must have joined the Marion in Bayonne to have signed on so quickly. He joined the Cleveland 89719 in Calcutta India on 26th May 1888 and paid off in Cardiff, how he got to Calcutta I don't know. He joined the Courland 65777 in Port Natal 22nd Aug 1895 again I don't know how he got there. He signed on the Chesapeake 105720 18th Oct 1906 in Gravesend as Mate when the Mate who had signed on in Purfleet the day before did not show at sailing due to injury. On that trip my G-Grandad paid off in Singapore (I think) with Mutual Consent on 3rd May 1907. Seems like he came and went as he pleased.

I did get his details from Lloyds Captains Register, that's how it all started, now I'm trying to fill the gaps. I think his last Pay off was in Singapore as he died 7 months later at home in Southampton, unless he managed to get a ship home from Singapore.

Alan.

P.S. Can any-one get copies of "Lloyds" paper for around 26th May 1888 to see if the Luna docked in Calcutta or anywhere in India and to see if the Chesapeake was in Singapore on 3rd May 1907.


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## dparry606 (Sep 24, 2015)

*Marion 59788*

Alan
I hope this is not too long after the thread but I read with interest your story about John Matthew joining the Marion in Bayonne in Oct 1882.
My great grandfather, Captain Gilbert Berry was the Master. From Bayonne the ship went to Santos where she arrived on 15 December 1882. My grandfather must have had an accident of some sorts because he then caught tetanus and dies in Santos on 1 Feb 1883.
That, of course, would have left the ship without a Master. If John Matthew was the Mate, and he had a master's certificate, it is very likely that he would have taken over in command.
I've yet to trace who owned the ship and if from there I can find anything further. If I do I'll let you know.
Aye
David


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## Roger Griffiths (Feb 10, 2006)

dparry606 said:


> I've yet to trace who owned the ship and if from there I can find anything further. If I do I'll let you know.
> Aye
> David


Hello,
According to the Mercantile Navy List 1882 MARION official number 59788 was owned by`Gordon Mugford of Swansea.


regards
Roger


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## dparry606 (Sep 24, 2015)

*Marion*

Many thanks for that information Roger


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## looneylectrics (Nov 17, 2006)

David,

Sorry about the delay I've been spending my time doing research trying to fix an old vehicle.
I have copies of the Masters and Mates Index from The National Archives but it is a bit hard to read. It is all written by hand in ink which is not always legible. As far as I can make out he signed on the Marion 2/11/1882 possibly in Bordeaux and signed off 16/12/1882 in port 96 wherever that may be. At that time he was carrying an Only Mate ticket and it was not till 1885 that he got his Master Mariner certification.
If he signed off in Santos how did he get home? His next ship was 4379 Acacia on the 26/4/1884 and on his application for a Master Mariners ticket it says he was “Onshore sick through shipwreck.” From 16/12/82 to 26/4/84 that’s 1yr 4months 10days on the beach and then he ships out as Mate on the Acacia for 5 months.
Let me know how your search is going David, it’s all interesting stuff.

Alan.


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