# Wire antennas



## lagerstedt (Oct 16, 2005)

Hi Looking for some info on the type wire antennas used on vessels with accommodation aft. The USSC in NZ and many companies with accommodation aft use a wire antenna that turned back on itself.
I use a 20.336m end feed into an AT 3000 automatic ATU the into a Kenwood TS140s. Its about 3m above house roof then down to the back of the section. About 5m high at the end. Gets me into Japan and the EU and across to Rarotonga. Tried to get into Uruguay one night off the back end. We were both about 4/4. Gave up, he then made contact with RA0 no problems. Now playing with Mr Windoms original windom. Rx ok yet to try TX. I'm a wire antenna fan, however, I have a 1200m2 section and wife so i'm limited in what i do. Always experimenting. Any comments appreciated. I operate IRLP into Ireland, SA and into England form time to time.

Blair Lagerstedt
ZL2BFO.


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## Varley (Oct 1, 2006)

Stonehaven/GYXD.

Radio Room Port fwd. Main to Port Samson post. Reserve to Stbd.


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## R651400 (Jun 18, 2005)

When ship architecture moved from twin masted to an almost aft end zero and retain the priority of outputting a reasonable signal on 500 khz with wire?
It must've been one helluva headache for the designers or as I read in just turn up the wick ie more tx power..


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## Tim Strickland (May 4, 2012)

*Wire aerials*

I use an end fed wire in a horizontal V. Overall length about 40 mts with the V at the half way point. The aerial is fed via an ICOM AH4 auto ATU. It works well and tunes on all HF bands.

Ref long wire aerials on all aft accommodation ships, we usually had some form of inverted L. Crusader/o'span'commandant etc all tuned easily.


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## dannic (Mar 10, 2013)

Tim Strickland said:


> I use an end fed wire in a horizontal V. Overall length about 40 mts with the V at the half way point. The aerial is fed via an ICOM AH4 auto ATU. It works well and tunes on all HF bands.
> 
> Ref long wire aerials on all aft accommodation ships, we usually had some form of inverted L. Crusader/o'span'commandant etc all tuned easily.


Long length of twin core out the cabin, along alleyway and out door to deck - then up to aft of wheelhouse and wrapped around handrails so stood some chance of getting world service!

Don't think I ever sailed with a sparky who bothered with tv/radio antenna. Not that any spares would have been supplied anyhow!
Dannic.


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## lagerstedt (Oct 16, 2005)

I have used the v beam at another QTH with great results. May go back to it.

73 Blair Lagerstedt
ZL2BFO


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## tunatownshipwreck (Nov 9, 2005)

I remember a lot of 12-gauge insulated wire hanging out portholes.


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## Troppo (Feb 18, 2010)

Shipboard antennas were primarily designed for MF (500 kHz) - the aim being to get as much wire in the air as possible....


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## dannic (Mar 10, 2013)

One of the best I saw was aframax tanker, crew tv was a co-ax out the rec room and along alleyway, out thro deck door to a sodium light bulb on a stand. Was left there on purpose for managers visit during cargo discharge to point out some of the deficiencies, and worked. Got spares!
Dannic


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## R651400 (Jun 18, 2005)

Troppo said:


> Shipboard antennas were primarily designed for MF (500 kHz) - the aim being to get as much wire in the air as possible....


And preferably the ubiquitous ' T ' formation for max self-capacitance/artificial length making MF /500 kcs resonance possible. 
HF had to fall in with this but can't understand when the marine bands were harmonically related why there was never a separate HF aerial that took advantage of this. Doesn't sound as if it would break the bank.


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## Troppo (Feb 18, 2010)

R651400 said:


> And preferably the ubiquitous ' T ' formation for max self-capacitance/artificial length making MF /500 kcs resonance possible.
> HF had to fall in with this but can't understand when the marine bands were harmonically related why there was never a separate HF aerial that took advantage of this. Doesn't sound as if it would break the bank.


Indeed - a nice 20m vertical, for instance...

Aahh...shipping companies...


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## R651400 (Jun 18, 2005)

Believe ss United States/KJEH radar and signal mast was pure aluminium and doubled as the ship's main aerial.. 
Be interesting to get some proof of this.


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## R651400 (Jun 18, 2005)

ps Only British company I recall dabbling with verticals was Brocklebanks who mounted them on the funnel.


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## Troppo (Feb 18, 2010)

Probably the most innovative install (for her time) I have ever seen was Queen Mary 1.

She had separate LF, MF and HF tx antennas......and 7 separate rx antennas, including dipoles and crossed dipoles...


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## R651400 (Jun 18, 2005)

GBTT/1 aerial info *here*


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## sparks69 (Dec 18, 2005)

R651400 said:


> GBTT/1 aerial info *here*


Absolutely fascinating - thanks for that.


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## lagerstedt (Oct 16, 2005)

Thanks for the response. Lots to think about.

Blair Lagerstedt


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## sparks69 (Dec 18, 2005)

BP Tankers had a variety of aerial types mostly wires but we had Funnel Whips, Dekmann Klappers (?) vertical tower types but the best ones I came across were on the old 16's 110 ft high masts with a centre fed T arrangement with a 'Span in the radio Room. They all seemed to work OK.


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## Troppo (Feb 18, 2010)

The difference in signal strength on 5 ton between the typical short wire antenna found on modern ships and a ship with a decent long wire was very noticeable...


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## BobMac123 (Sep 29, 2014)

sparks69 said:


> BP Tankers had a variety of aerial types mostly wires but we had Funnel Whips, Dekmann Klappers (?) vertical tower types but the best ones I came across were on the old 16's 110 ft high masts with a centre fed T arrangement with a 'Span in the radio Room. They all seemed to work OK.


Hi - the BIDFORD PRIORY the typical L shaped aerial & was OK - mind you she mainly did the Persian / Med run like a pipe line picking up the line off lebinen ..you could get GLD in most evenings !!..
She had the new TRUE MOTION RADAR without the outer casing while testing & wheelhouse doors closed preventing weather ./ sand storms attacking it !! - the mates hated it !!!


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## Dimples82 (Aug 24, 2014)

lagerstedt said:


> Hi Looking for some info on the type wire antennas used on vessels with accommodation aft. The USSC in NZ and many companies with accommodation aft use a wire antenna that turned back on itself.
> I use a 20.336m end feed into an AT 3000 automatic ATU the into a Kenwood TS140s. Its about 3m above house roof then down to the back of the section. About 5m high at the end. Gets me into Japan and the EU and across to Rarotonga. Tried to get into Uruguay one night off the back end. We were both about 4/4. Gave up, he then made contact with RA0 no problems. Now playing with Mr Windoms original windom. Rx ok yet to try TX. I'm a wire antenna fan, however, I have a 1200m2 section and wife so i'm limited in what i do. Always experimenting. Any comments appreciated. I operate IRLP into Ireland, SA and into England form time to time.
> 
> Blair Lagerstedt
> ZL2BFO.


Aerials, that was the 2nd thing I did when joining a ship. I usually got rid of the rusted U clamps (because they were rotting anyway), then I set about refurbishing all the aerial joints and junctions and replacing insulators but not using U clamps, I had learnt how to splice and join copper wire/bus-bars (when I had been apprenticed to GPO Telephones (where these skills were needed) before I trained as an R/O), I found this paid helped antenna performance a lot be it an invert L or T configuration, this kept aerial current down a lot . . . memories


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## Ric RO (Dec 5, 2020)

R651400 said:


> Believe ss United States/KJEH radar and signal mast was pure aluminium and doubled as the ship's main aerial..
> Be interesting to get some proof of this.


The only proof I can add is a remark from the Chief Engineer John Louge. During the long layover in Norfolk, he told me that the 
hull to deck insulation was badly crowded. The deck was referred to as aluminum. This of course would include the main mast.
As I remember the antennas were connected to the stack fins. Perhaps a picture closeup would revel the setup. Been over 50 years
since departing...


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## djringjr (Feb 11, 2008)

Ric RO







www.shipsnostalgia.com





Ric RO above is the only remaining radio officer assigned to the SS UNITED STATES/KJEH.

Photos:








1) Radio Officer Richard Ostrowski N2NA on deck between watch on the SS UNITED STATES








2) Paul Mac Carthy (SK) is standing next to where R/O Richard Ostrowski used to be stationed - with his MILL (a MILL is a CW Telegrapher's typewriter - it writes all caps with a slash zero.). At the rear is Bill Walker (SK) who is working the RCA ET-8063 SSB radio which was used to make telephone calls (ship-to-shore).

73
DR


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## pippin (May 13, 2008)

I remember on the Stevie Clarke PULPOROUGH/GPVE in 1969 that the crew Rx Ae had a huge light bulb on the far end.

When I queried this they assured me that it worked wonders on the reception.

I just shook my head in disbelief and didn't argue!


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## sparks69 (Dec 18, 2005)

Reminds me of a workboat VHF aerial made out of a large wire coat hanger in the shape of a large willie etc, beautifully made and worked very well.
We just got fed up with replacing dipoles which got broken on ladders !
Happy daze


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## majoco (Oct 15, 2008)

Dimples82 wrote:


> refurbishing all the aerial joints and junctions and replacing insulators but not using U clamps, I had learnt how to splice and join copper wire/bus-bars


On my/our R/Os course at SE Essex Tech we had a couple of afternoons making up antennas on the roof of the college - 7 strand hard drawn copper making "Post Office" splices at the ends around the thimbles - feeds from a flat top with a "Y" in the centre down to the radio shed insulator with proper weak links at each end and those strange Marconi rubber insulators that were supposed to stretch but the weak link always broke first. You had to remember to roll out the wire along the deck - not just pull it off the end of the drum.


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## Ron Stringer (Mar 15, 2005)

The famed Post Office Splices were also taught during the courses for PMG2 and the Special tickets in the 1980s at Manchester's Brooks Bar college. Always used them in preference to the MIMCo-supplied (and BOT-mandated) bulldog grips.


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## pippin (May 13, 2008)

Even to this day I loathe bulldog grips. 
Fiddly to put together, easy to drop the nuts (ahem!), difficult to get a spanner in position to tighten the nuts (ouch!). Invariably have to be done with freezing cold hands.

Unfortunately aboard GW4XXF heavy stranded wire aerials are impracticable so bulldog grips have to be used.
Stainless steel ones do make life a bit easier when it comes to undoing them. 

I too preferred PO splices although the sharp ends of the wires could inflict wounds to the fingers.
The copper seemed to make them sting somewhat.


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## djringjr (Feb 11, 2008)

djringjr said:


> Ric RO
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Here are some of the other R/O's of SS UNITED STATES/KJEH.









Left to Right

1 – Lesie Greer Chief RO
2 – William Holland
3 - Earl Foster
4 – Robert Theander
5 – Stephen Gray
6 – William Walker
7 – Paul Mac Carthy

2 through 7 were all "1st Assistant Radio Officers"

Richard Ostrowski (photo above earlier post) was R/O #8 and he was taking the photo.

KJEH underway.










Copy of radiogram sent to QUEEN MARY/GBTT in 1967 from SSUNITEDSTATES/KJEH on original RCA radiogram forms. 










Message was sent by by R/O Roy Cattell who was standing the 12 to 4 watch, confirmed by Senior 1st R/O Paul Mac Carthy who was standing next to him as the historic message was sent as confirmed in private correspondence between myself and R/O Richard Ostrowski, N2RO and to the Marine Historical Radio Society / KPH group in correspondence attached.










73
DR


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## Troppo (Feb 18, 2010)

Why not start a separate thread on KJEH?

The info will get lost in here....


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## Worldspan (Jan 2, 2012)

Troppo said:


> Why not start a separate thread on KJEH?
> 
> The info will get lost in here....


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## Worldspan (Jan 2, 2012)

Not really about wire antennas but someone once told me that the flagpole at British embassies was an HF vertical. Was this indeed the case?
W


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## pippin (May 13, 2008)

Dunno abt that but some Church flagpoles are actually mobile/cellular phone masts.

Betws y Coed Church for one.


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