# ST1400 Series Marine Transmitter



## W5JV

Hello to everyone. This is my first post and I am thoroughly enjoying the threads on this reflector. 

I am seeking information on the ITT Marine ST1400A transmitter and its variants such as the ST1400C (with synthesizer). I'd like to learn where these were made and whether anyone might have a manual or schematic set to same. I am studying the transmitter you can see at this file location: 

http://www.w5jv.com/For_Viewing_Only/ITT%20Marine%20ST1400A%20or%20C/ST1400A_Norfolk_2013.jpg

Any comments, memories, nostalgia welcome. I was an RO (AKA RM) during the 1960's and the transmitters I used were much older than this unit; many built during WW2. Any technical details or memories you could pass on just might be very helpful. Cheers, John W5JV


----------



## hawkey01

W5JV,

on behalf of the Moderating team welcome to SN. Glad you found your way to the Radio Room. Enjoy all we have to offer.


Hawkey01


----------



## G4UMW

Hi John,

I believe the ST1400 series of transmitters were designed and built in Sweden by the ITT Marine subsidiary company Standard Radio & Telefon AB. Sorry, but I don't have any manuals or other technical data.

73,

Rob/G4UMW


----------



## W5JV

Thank you sir. I am very happy to have found this reflector. Great information and wonderful people. !


----------



## W5JV

Greetings Rob, yes, I found your comments in another thread and have been researching with it since. I received an email this AM from Charly, DK6AL at algra-funkarchiv.de and he may be able to supply a copy of the ST1400A Operator book and the ST1400C Technical Manual. This is good news! I will let you know if this comes through. Did you ever use one of these transmitters? If so, what length wire antenna did your ship have? There must have been several lengths suggesting you would have had several antennas.


----------



## G4UMW

Hi John,

I was employed by the International Marine Radio Co which was the British ITT Marine subsidiary. As a consequence I used the ST1400A/C transmitters on numerous ships, as well as their big brother the ST1600 series. 

All the ships that I worked on had wire aerials. The general layout for the main aerial was an end-fed wire which ran from the signal mast above the wheelhouse to another mast on the aft corner of the superstructure then across to another mast on the opposite corner. The aerial resembles a "L" shape in plan view and would be (at a guess) about 150-200 feet long. The emergency aerial ran between the signal mast and one of the aft aerial masts and was thus shorter than the main aerial.

Some ships used vertical cage or whip aerials but I have no experience of these.

HTH,

Rob/G4UMW


----------



## sparks69

ST1400C was a beautiful transmitter even though it was b***er for banging out harmonics. Simple to tune and very reliable as long as the PA valve bases remembered they were capacitors as well !
Happy memories


----------



## sven-olof

Here some links. At first to a swedish amatuerspecialist on Standard radio . He runs an entire museum.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6mSif8X0HI

here is a veteranclub for retired Standard radio factory personel

http://www.veteranklubbenalfa.se/veteran/09q4/091205srt25.htm

here is a radiomuseum in Gothenburg. They have technical dokumentations on ST 1400 and retired shipradio engineers on hand.
http://radiomuseet.web.pin.se/wordpress/?page_id=388


----------



## Naytikos

ST1400 was the best transmitter I ever sailed with; only ever had a crystal-controlled version though.
The only drawback was that it needed very very good grounding (earthing) to the steel deck or bulkhead; the higher up from the waterline the better the grounding had to be.

Of it's many attributes, the variable inductance aerial-matching was a delight.
It was an easy transmitter to modify as well; I took off the 2Mc/s power restriction on every one I met, and modified the MF circuitry on one to vastly increase the power output. The ceramic 4CX250B output valves (tubes) would take a lot of mistreatment.

Not widely-known, perhaps, was the ST1401. Amongst other differences, these had a built-in signal-strength probe for fault-finding. So far as I know only two examples were ever produced, by special order from Niarchos for a pair of very nice 80k dwt tankers.


----------



## trotterdotpom

I wouldn't have had the nerve to modify a transmitter. Even if I'd had the nerve, I couldn't have been bothered. I sailed with the ST1400 and it did what the rest of them did - sent messages.

John T


----------



## Bill Greig

Was there an ST1600 also? - big green cabinet, synthesised tuning or is my memory playing tricks.
Bill


----------



## Ron Stringer

See post #6, this thread.


----------



## duncs

trotterdotpom said:


> I wouldn't have had the nerve to modify a transmitter. Even if I'd had the nerve, I couldn't have been bothered. I sailed with the ST1400 and it did what the rest of them did - sent messages.
> 
> John T


I couldn't agree with you more. Have you ever joined a ship, when someone already has?
I have!
D


----------



## Naytikos

One day, when I have nothing else to do, I'll start a thread: "Modifications I have made"

On second thoughts, I fear most SN contributors would be so bored by my initial post that no-one would take it up.


----------



## duncs

Naytikos, just as a matter of interest. After making modifications to tx's, rx's or anything else, did you leave suitable drawings/notes etc for your successors?
It can be a nightmare for your successor, otherwise!
D


----------



## G4UMW

Don't know about green - the ST1600s I worked with all had beige-coloured cabinets which appeared to be ITT Marine's colour of choice for all their equipment after they abandoned the grey-blue colour of the ST1400 vintage gear.


----------



## sven-olof

acc to an expert: Debeg, Mackay and Sailor had ekvivalents to ST 1600.

http://lists.contesting.com/_amps/2002-07/msg00264.html

http://www.seefunknetz.de/

http://www.qsl.net/pe2jeb/Sailor_HF_T1127_Inside.htm


----------



## trotterdotpom

I'd have thought modifying a piece of equipment would have voided its type approval or whatever they called it.

I'm pretty sure that this Transmitter had a large sand filled fuse in the power supply which, was live at the end where you were likely to get hold of it after it had blown - you really had to make sure the supply to the transmitter was turned off before touching anything, none of those "she'll be right" moments.

John T


----------



## Troppo

I sailed with a_ pair_ of ST1600s on my first ship....

It was all downhill from there....


----------



## Troppo

Oh and BTW, GBVC (Canberra) had a ST1600 as her main tx, from memory.


----------



## Ron Stringer

Troppo said:


> Oh and BTW, GBVC (Canberra) had a ST1600 as her main tx, from memory.


According to the Marconi 'Mariner' magazine (July/August 1961) 

"_Canberra _has a high-powered single sideband transmitter with two associated receivers and terminal rack equipment, giving passenger and ship's officers facilities to make a long-distance radiotelephone call to anywhere in the world. Such a call is made with absolute privacy, the use of speech inverters rendering it unintelligible to anyone other than the person for whom it is intended.

Normal telegraph traffic is handled by a 'Globespan' transmitter and three 'Atalanta' receivers. This high-powered, all-purpose transmitter will also be used for radiotelephone calls in addition to the main 'Crusader' single sideband installation."

I don't know if the transmitter referred to in the first line is the 'Crusader' or some other unidentified transmitter. It is a long time ago but I do know that some Marconi NT201 naval SSB transmitters were fitted on passenger ships in the 1950s and early 1960s but I can't recall if _Canberra _was one of them.

There are photos of the W/T room showing a 'Globespan' but the R/T section of the radio room only shows the auxiliary racks containing receivers and terminal equipment, no transmitters.

In the same issue, there are photos of the radio room of the cable ship _Retriever_ with an NT201 in view. In the description it says that, "_Retriever_ employs a single sideband transmitter and a single sideband receiver, affording facilities for world-wide radiotelephone communications. A 'Globespan' transmitter and two 'Atalanta' receivers handle radiotelegraph traffic ... etc."


----------



## Naytikos

Duncs: 
I always kept a book divided up into sections for every piece of equipment (including those not really my responsibility but on which I had worked anyway), with a detailed description of everything that happened to it; in particular a step-by-step account of fault-finding and, where I had made circuit changes, the reasoning behind the same and results before and after.
I also made circuit and, where appropriate, mechanical drawings and inserted them into the manuals.
In addition I noted instances where the manual was plainly wrong in either description or diagram.

On a couple of occasions I actually got feedback from subsequent R/Os thanking me for 'the bible'.

Ron:
Please forgive my nit-picking, but I thought the Crusader came out around 1964/5?


Interesting to see the condescending tone of the 'Mariner' article: "passenger and ship's officers....." Could other members of the crew not make R/T calls on Cunard ships I wonder?


----------



## Ron Stringer

Naytikos said:


> Ron: Please forgive my nit-picking, but I thought the Crusader came out around 1964/5?


As a confirmed nit-picker myself (other people's efforts only) I can only defend myself by stating that I was quoting from the 'Mariner' page which was open in front of me as I typed. 



Naytikos said:


> Interesting to see the condescending tone of the 'Mariner' article: "passenger and ship's officers....." Could other members of the crew not make R/T calls on Cunard ships I wonder?


To get back to the nit-picking (other people's variety - specifically yours) you seem to suggest that the article had some relevance to Cunard. In fact _Canberra _ was owned by P & O. 

That 'Mariner' article ran to 5 pages but had relatively little detail about the radio installation, the newly-introduced 'Metron' echo-sounder getting almost as much coverage. The biggest write-up was about the TV facilities, which apart from the reception and distribution of off-air programmes to the standard cabin TV receivers, included a studio equipped with TV cameras and film-TV converters. There were even CCTV cameras on the bridge that were linked in to the system and allowed passengers to see what was going on there. Hot stuff for the time!

Most of the guys in the group that created that system are long dead, but one of them, Les Downes, is only 80 years young and still attends our monthly get together in Chelmsford. Anyone that knew Les at that time will be pleased to hear that he is no fatter than he was then (like No.1 on a door as my granny used to say), is still to be found hanging off the end of a very skinny roll-up and maintains his interest in photography.

Not a lot to do with ST1400 transmitters. (egg)


----------



## Gareth Jones

It's surprising how a simple RQ about a transmitter can develop into an interesting thread.

I wonder if anyone knows when the H/F R/T service of the (then) GPO started up and was it always SSB ? was DSB ever used.?


----------



## G4UMW

There's a picture of the _Canberra's_ ITT-equipped radio room in the Gallery...

http://www.shipsnostalgia.com/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/98863/title/canberra-radio-room/cat/530

The ST1600 main transmitter is obvious, along with the emergency rack and what looks like a 3021 receiver on the right.


----------



## Ron Stringer

G4UMW said:


> There's a picture of the _Canberra's_ ITT-equipped radio room in the Gallery. The ST1600 main transmitter is obvious, along with the emergency rack and what looks like a 3021 receiver on the right.


Perhaps the 20-year time difference explains the anomaly. 'Crusader' to ST1400 in a generation. Progress of a kind.


----------



## les.edgecumbe

According to the Marconi 'Mariner' magazine (July/August 1961) 

"Canberra has a high-powered single sideband transmitter with two associated receivers and terminal rack equipment, giving passenger and ship's officers facilities to make a long-distance radiotelephone call to anywhere in the world. Such a call is made with absolute privacy, the use of speech inverters rendering it unintelligible to anyone other than the person for whom it is intended.

Bit of a claim that...... with a bit of fine foot work with the BFO on a Rx it cud be listened to fairly well. Squirting a 3 Kcs tone into the Tx a.f. inverted the speech, but a bfo could sort that.


----------



## Ron Stringer

les.edge***be said:


> the use of speech inverters rendering it unintelligible to anyone other than the person for whom it is intended.
> Bit of a claim that...... with a bit of fine foot work with the BFO on a Rx it cud be listened to fairly well. Squirting a 3 Kcs tone into the Tx a.f. inverted the speech, but a bfo could sort that.


I used to do that all the time at sea, listening to other people's link calls passed boring watches on ships with little or no traffic to occupy me. As an R/O I never sailed with anything more advanced than an 'Atalanta' but had no trouble unscrambling 'inverted' speech. 

Those speech inverters were a waste of time in my opinion but the Hull and Grimsby trawler owners liked them. Trying to listen to conversations between trawler skippers was more or less a waste of time to me; I couldn't understand what they were saying to each other on a clear circuit, never mind an inverted one. (Jester)


----------



## Troppo

Sorry, I should have clarified. I saw GBVC's STR1600 install right at the end of her career.

She also had a Skanti 801 main rx as well.

I went on board her on her last call to VIS and had a beer with the Chief R/O.


----------



## Naytikos

Posted by Ron:
_To get back to the nit-picking (other people's variety - specifically yours) you seem to suggest that the article had some relevance to Cunard. In fact Canberra was owned by Orient Line, who were long-time customers of Marconi who supplied them not only with equipment but also with R/Os. _

My humble apologies; my personal experience of British companies being limited to Ben-line, GSNC, Bank-line and Bristol-City-line, in very small doses, I can only guess at the ownership of most of the ships mentioned in these hallowed halls.


----------



## Ron Stringer

Naytikos said:


> My humble apologies;


No, my apologies are due, not yours. R651400 is exactly right and (as a fan of Orient Line) in my eagerness to have poke at P & O I cocked up the ownership of the vessel. I will amend that part of my post if that is still possible.

But the rest of the comment was correct - the article in the 'Mariner' described her build as she left the shipyard whereas the photo in the SN Gallery is dated some 20 years later, presumably following some radio refit. 

Sadly by that time MIMCo had lost its way in HF comms development. Having reached a crossroads between continuing to create equipment for old-style radio rooms or taking a lead in offering the identified future route (of remote-controlled HF comms) they failed to make an early decision. They suspended investment while they were dithering and left things too late. As a consequence, when they eventually came down in favour of the future, they did not have any high power transmitters to offer other than the ageing 'Conqueror HS', nor did they have any GMDSS-style comms equipment proven and in production. Having fallen between two stools, they could not have been considered as a candidate to supply the radio room for any large passenger ship.

The transfer of budgetary control from GEC's Stanhope Gate HQ to MWT in Chelmsford shortly afterwards saw the end of MIMCo's business as a major supplier to deep-sea ships. End of an era.


----------



## Troppo

Troppo said:


> Sorry, I should have clarified. I saw GBVC's STR1600 install right at the end of her career.
> 
> She also had a Skanti 801 main rx as well.
> 
> I went on board her on her last call to VIS and had a beer with the Chief R/O.


Yes, and BTW, at the end of her career, GBVC only had one console across the middle of the radio room - the days of the W/T and R/T bays were gone, alas....the R/T bay was full of Inmarsat A equipment. 

The Chief told me that all QRJs were via satcom.

She only was a H16 ship then as well....only 3 R/Os - or ETOs.

A sad end, but inevitable.

I have some pics somewhere. 

I managed to twist the Chief's arm to get them to send a final TR to VIS on 500 when QTO for the last time.


----------



## Naytikos

I do not wish to lead the thread any more off-topic but:

Peninsular & Orient line
Orient line

Two different companies?????


----------



## Troppo

Orient Steam Navigation co.

The Peninsula and Oriental Steam Navigation Co. 

2 different companies.

P and O took over Orient line in 66.

P and O were direct employ (and saw themselves as rather special....one had to go to the right college to get a job with them, so I am told).

Orient was macaroni, until P and O took over, and standards improved.

(*))


----------



## trotterdotpom

I've got an idea that ships with more than 250 passengers had to be H24 and with a minimum of 3 ROs, one of whom had to possess a 1st Class cert. Just a vague memory from the old Handbook.

John T


----------



## richardwakeley

John,

I think that's right. Centaur, on the VIP-9VG run, carried 220 passengers and was only H8 with 1 R/O (me).

Richard


----------



## Naytikos

Troppo:

Many thanks for the clarification: So when my grandmother sailed from Tilbury to Sydney on Orsova in '66 she really was with P & O as she told us!


----------



## trotterdotpom

richardwakeley said:


> John,
> 
> I think that's right. Centaur, on the VIP-9VG run, carried 220 passengers and was only H8 with 1 R/O (me).
> 
> Richard


Nice work if you could get it, Richard. Did you by any chance know the legendary Roger Lindberg who may have also served on Centaur but went to AWA.

John T


----------



## Troppo

Naytikos said:


> Troppo:
> 
> Many thanks for the clarification: So when my grandmother sailed from Tilbury to Sydney on Orsova in '66 she really was with P & O as she told us!


Yep...


----------



## G4UMW

Slight thread drift...

http://www.geocities.ws/metbee/isaac/introen.html


----------



## duncs

Naytikos said:


> Duncs:
> I always kept a book divided up into sections for every piece of equipment (including those not really my responsibility but on which I had worked anyway), with a detailed description of everything that happened to it; in particular a step-by-step account of fault-finding and, where I had made circuit changes, the reasoning behind the same and results before and after.
> I also made circuit and, where appropriate, mechanical drawings and inserted them into the manuals.
> In addition I noted instances where the manual was plainly wrong in either description or diagram.
> 
> On a couple of occasions I actually got feedback from subsequent R/Os thanking me for 'the bible'.
> 
> Ron:
> Please forgive my nit-picking, but I thought the Crusader came out around 1964/5?
> 
> 
> Interesting to see the condescending tone of the 'Mariner' article: "passenger and ship's officers....." Could other members of the crew not make R/T calls on Cunard ships I wonder?


I appreciate that, N. I don't think any of your successors would be complaining.
Rgds D


----------



## richardwakeley

G'day John,

No, I don't know Roger Lindberg. I was the last Blue Funnel (Ocean Fleets) R/O on Centaur, in 1979. I wanted to nail my bags to the deck of that one, but they replaced all junior officers with Straits Shipping guys in late 79. It didn't last much longer anyway.

Richard


----------



## trotterdotpom

Thanks Richard. All good things come to an end. Roger may have been ex P&O, can't remember now, but some great stories about him.

John T


----------



## sparks69

G4UMW said:


> Slight thread drift...
> 
> http://www.geocities.ws/metbee/isaac/introen.html


OOOOOOOOO those pictures of the cute little pa valves - brought it all back.(Wave)
Happy days


----------



## Troppo

trotterdotpom said:


> Thanks Richard. All good things come to an end. Roger may have been ex P&O, can't remember now, but some great stories about him.
> 
> John T



I remember his name....never knew him.


----------



## joe-ei5ge

*st1600a*

i would have to search for manual bear with me, i have pic of radio room showing an Nera txmtr ( EB Nera ) which was beautiful to operator (non -synth) I remember a fan was fitted external to Txmtr adjacent to PA section to keep the 4cx-250b rack cool, happy days. revert later


----------



## Graham P Powell

One day at work I had an enquiry about a Norwegian ferry called the "Prince Harald". We had no information at all at GKA so I rang 
Rogaland for help. The chap there told me that the Prince Harald had a full HF installation plus Satcom but only listened to a European cell net telephone!. on another occasion a Russian vessel gave me a rather unusual telephone number to call so I tried it and much to my surprise it was answered straight away by a Finnish icebreaker. By the 1980's things were changing very rapidly with marine comms. I seem to remember that 
P and O and Orient line were treated as separate companies. P and O
was direct employ and Orient line was MIMCO. One of the guys at GKA who unfortunately died a couple of years ago spent his whole seagoing career on the Orcades. 
Anyway Merry Christmas to one and all
regards
Graham Powell


----------



## Troppo

Merry xmas to you as well, Graham.

There was some really, really dodgy stuff going on during the last days of W/T in the mid/late 90's....all those rules and regs we learnt by heart and took deadly seriously were thrown out the porthole....

Ahh, shipowners....lovely chaps, all....


----------



## Naytikos

Oh dear, Troppo, are you going to leave us all in suspense?


----------



## Troppo

All kinds of dodgy exemptions granted to W/T watches.....

The company operating a very well known British vessel ("the pride of the MN") couldn't wait to get rid of their R/O's.

Ships being allowed to sail through areas with NO GMDSS MSI (weather/nav) broadcasts....

I could go on and on...


----------



## Hugh Wilson

In 95/96 I was ETO for 8 months on one of Denholms managed Alcan vessels. We had no GMDSS equipment but in the radio room there was a small cassette recorder plugged in to the main Rx which was tuned to 500Khz. The auto alarm was left running H24. I was fully occupied with ETO work and only occassionally went into the radio room. The theory was that in the event of a distress on 500Khz, the auto alarm would be activated and I would be called to the bridge to see what the problem was. I could listen to any distress working on the tape recorder. Apparently the ship had been operating like this for several years with an official exemption granted by the Bermuda flag state.


----------



## Troppo

No, a 3rd rate, dodgy Panamanian outfit.....or so one would think.

OK, perhaps the R/O's wages could be counted on a scungy old bulkie, with 2 men and a dog on board, but on a large (and, dare I say famous and glamorous) passenger ship, with hundreds of staff.... the radio dept wages were a proverbial drop in the bucket.


----------



## Troppo

Hugh Wilson said:


> Apparently the ship had been operating like this for several years with an official exemption granted by the Bermuda flag state.



Why am I not surprised....?

Nothing has changed.....I was reading an IMO paper the other day from some passenger ship operator's union (oops, I mean association..) - they were pissing and moaning about having to put a GMDSS VHF radio in the lifeboats of polar-trading passenger ships...FFS....what, 500 quid per boat?

The poor dears...

(MAD)


----------



## Varley

Hugh Wilson said:


> In 95/96 I was ETO for 8 months on one of Denholms managed Alcan vessels. We had no GMDSS equipment but in the radio room there was a small cassette recorder plugged in to the main Rx which was tuned to 500Khz. The auto alarm was left running H24. I was fully occupied with ETO work and only occassionally went into the radio room. The theory was that in the event of a distress on 500Khz, the auto alarm would be activated and I would be called to the bridge to see what the problem was. I could listen to any distress working on the tape recorder. Apparently the ship had been operating like this for several years with an official exemption granted by the Bermuda flag state.


Hugh, It was my insurance to have an electrician onboard (and one who had some greater measure of electrical education than was common amongst 'us'. And, before you get too swollen headed, that does not mean that we did not have excellent men from the time served background it just means that we had the opposite too and no easy way of knowing which at initial employment).

The exemption was not conjured by the Bermuda authorities who, like here, run reputable 'ship' but on the IMO approved North West European Navtex exemption. It was stretched a little to account for your trade.

Other flags used the same excuse to turn WT vessels into R/T vessels and allow vessels to sail without either E/O or R/O. One of the Transpetrol vessel (if I remember) we 'inherited' like this but, because Capt. Naik would not countenance taking a cut in Bombay's earnings by supporting ETOs, it remained fully manned (by Indians, of course - I suppose that must also have worked in favour of the Brits).

Technically there never were two jobs and artificial demarking in order to engineer same was ridiculous. A wire passing out of the RadioRoom would change 'ownership' as it did so, utterly mad. Where the work load was higher then, as a schoolchild could divine, a junior of the same discipline would be the obvious solution - as it was for the operating whilst that remained.

I don't remember you too well which probably means that you were good although your dates suggest you were not one of those 'I' took directly from radio colleges. By and large they took to the task like ducks to water.

GMDSS, of course, destroyed that avenue for sourceing educated electricians and there seems to be no other. This is obviously wrong but the MN cannot have been attractive. 

I was quite enthusiastic at establishing a corps of capable E/Os - not just Brits either. None of this was for your benefit, however, as without you I would have had to try real work.


----------



## Varley

Sorry guys. If all you wanted to do was sit on your ****s and get well paid for it then don't expect the rest of the industry not to 'seek a reduction in their number' as Scrooge might have it. An industry accepts its staff as stake holders (I know, a Blairism but he could not have been a prat all the time) but to expect roles not to evolve as technology moves on would be idiotic. 

The blame is not all yours, of course, it was an 'upfront' observation for those looking for a job in the 60s and acted as the honeypot.

I do probably agree about the LB VHF however but what you don't seem to appreciate is the consequences when a reputable company reports a defect (nor do any GMDSS Maintenance contractors, and altogether absurd and counterproductive concept). It is the administration that goes on around reporting the defect, obtaining an exemption and having the termination of the exemption surveyed by class.

Less and more reliable equipment reduces the number of such 'interventions'. A fixed VHF in a lifeboat - not the most benign of environments. There was a good argument to force GMDSS hand helds to be in general usage in order that they were kept in good condition because they were wanted in normal service and not just 'put up with' in case of emergency.


----------



## Troppo

Varley said:


> I do probably agree about the LB VHF however but what you don't seem to appreciate is the consequences when a reputable company reports a defect (nor do any GMDSS Maintenance contractors, and altogether absurd and counterproductive concept). It is the administration that goes on around reporting the defect, obtaining an exemption and having the termination of the exemption surveyed by class.


Sorry, not sure what you mean here.....


----------



## duncs

Mr Varley,
were you, at some stage, ETO on the 'EB Carrier'?. I notice you are the I.O.M. flag. There was a long unholy relationship between the I.O.M./Bermuda/HongKong and the Glasgow crowd for a long time. I presume you were part of the 'Island trinity'. If you were involved in the 'EBC', then God help any other projects you were involved in!
No offence intended, re the above,
best regards,
Duncs


----------



## Varley

duncs said:


> Mr Varley,
> were you, at some stage, ETO on the 'EB Carrier'?. I notice you are the I.O.M. flag. There was a long unholy relationship between the I.O.M./Bermuda/HongKong and the Glasgow crowd for a long time. I presume you were part of the 'Island trinity'. If you were involved in the 'EBC', then God help any other projects you were involved in!
> No offence intended, re the above,
> best regards,
> Duncs


Duncs, Seeing as I hadn't invented the name yet I couldn't have been ETO on anything. I was E/O on her sister ship Nordic Crusader/Cast Fulmar as my last trip before coming ashore in 1981. Indeed character building and even then about ten years before EB Carrier was so renamed. An excellent example of both British shipbuilding and UK flag administration. (The emergency switchboard burned to the ground, we returned all the way from Dampier to Europe with turbo chargers surging except for a few hours when we tried to exchange the fuel valves in the offending unit - inverted with a lump hammer the couldn't be shifted and other 'adventures'). Anyway I digress. 

As electrical superintendent, of course, EB Carrier was in my 'See'. Whilst her ownership did her no favours, particularly his insistence (actually financial necessity) of using Turkish crew, I have to say that no other owner has ever taken my advice with such alacrity. He was inspecting the Sunderland Forge (the archtypical British supplier of self igniting switchboards) group starter panel and I explained to him why the other one was black and crispy. He understood and asked what he should do to prevent it happening again. I told him that we (Denholm) had had long experience of Sunderland Forge withdrawable starters and that had we had a solution it would already have been applied - he could, of course, replace it with a decent Far Eastern built switchboard with 'fixed' starters.

Meant as a facetious comment he agreed immediately and Hyundai Mipo replaced both GSPs not long afterwards.

I can't then remember the nationality hopping that went on but the next major incident was when fine British metalurgy was demonstrated by the failure of a main circ. pump discharge bend resulting in her being towed to Singapore (the emergency generator was unable to maintain the satcom for more than 15 minutes at a time - later found to be due to a hole in one piston!). I am sure you were not there when I arrived as the ETO was Neil Long for the duration of the docking, and beyond.

I don't know why you couple IoM, Bermuda and Hong Kong in that snide fashion. In EB Carrier's day I don't think we had any IoM Flag vessels. There was an IoM Office to liaise with Denholm Bermuda - again nothing to do with the Flag Administration but a set up in order to reduce costs of providing British Officers (and don't think for a minute that the resulting reduction in 'entitlements' did not mean that white men remained in seagoing employment longer than would otherwise have been the case - you don't imagine that technical managers WANTED to employ monkeys do you?).

Regardless of flag and class it is the Owner that makes most difference to the 'quality' of the vessel - even British built piles of C like N. Crusader and N. Commander. IoM Flag administration was at one time more approachable and pro-active than the UK and was for that reason preferred by superintendents - none of whom would willingly have become coupled with Hong Kong. None, however, would allow any regulation to be waived without cause. Like many others it now relies on Class to inspect (initially one always got an Flag surveyor) and the thought of proactivity has become foreign. A pity. In any case decisions upon which flag to fly are seldom decided by superintendents.

Happy New year. David V


----------



## Troppo

Ahhh.....the MCA (UK flag administration).....not the most customer focussed or pro-active organisation I have ever dealt with...


----------



## Varley

Indeed, but MarDep Singapore and the Federal SeaScouts deserve a dishonourable mention too.

I could also suggest that at one time the DTp did try to become 'user friendly' resulting in a vessel sold with full term SEC when in fact they had issued a side letter to the sellers citing major deficiencies (like renew the lifeboats, whistle, fireman's outfits etc.). As the new buyer was to change flag (to 'another' reputable flag and therefore subject to proper scrutiny) DTp were very keen to get their SEC back.

As the least important I was sent to take over her docking in Saudi Shields when her proper Super had a heart attack and so climbed from comfortably warm frying pan to well stocked fire.

I would not make the same criticism of most individual surveyors(including the radio surveyors who, until Class finally ousted them in favour of A.N.Other Radio Company tech. were from the ex-PO/BT school). For those who snipe at the IoM Marine Admin from without (I am licenced!) I would point out that they continued with exclusive surveyors (Inc. Radio) for longer than most before capitulating to Class.


----------



## Troppo

Ahhh, yes....Class Radio Surveys.....

Wonderful.

Very glad I am ashore these days.


----------



## richardwakeley

Hi Troppo,

I'm one of those animals (Radio Surveyor on behalf of class) still!

Rgds,
Richard


----------



## Troppo

Hello Richard,

Just out of curiosity - when were you last audited?

By a fellow radio professional?

And I don't mean a paperwork audit, or a visit by a deck/engine surveyor who knows just enough about GMDSS to be dangerous....


----------



## endure

I did my first trip as a sparklet on a ship with an ST1400. We also had a 400 watt transmitter with auto-tune whose name escapes me. The Sparky decided he was going to 'fettle' the 400 watter as we made our way round the Cape to Europe. Before he started we could raise any stations that the ST1400 could raise easily. By the time he'd finished you couldn't hear it across the other side of the radio room


----------



## endure

Was it the ST1400 that had Ledex motors to change bands? They got sticky and a swift kick had to be applied before they'd move.


----------



## sparks69

I remember that Auto Tune ITT Tx, BP had 'em on the Mitsubushi 270's. Never used it.
Don't remember any ledex in ITT Tx's.
Redifon, EB & Marconi used them.


----------



## endure

Must have been Redifons then - I never sailed with Marconi or EB. The ship was the British Progress in 1975


----------



## richardwakeley

Hi Troppo,

All my survey paperwork is audited by another 'responsible radio inspector', i.e. another tech in the same company who is qualified for radio surveys. This is done at the office after every survey. All the class societies do annual audits at our office. But for actual onboard audit by a radio professional during the survey, it's not since 'nineteen forgotten'.

One thing I notice now is that there are fewer and fewer radio surveyors who have actually been to sea. I'm one of the dinosaurs. All the young guys in our company (mostly Filipino) are very competent techs and know the equipment well, but they are college graduates who have never been seamen. Even so, they know much better how to operate the GMDSS gear than many of the ship's officers we meet.

Brgds. Richard


----------



## Troppo

Thanks Richard,

I'm certainly not having a shot at you, just the system. 

Class society radio surveys have the strong potential to be completely compromised by conflict of interest and commercial motives.

I'm not surprised by your comments. There is no proper audit of class society radio surveys by a professional independent auditor. 

In my days as a Government radio surveyor, I have done PSC inspections on ships that have "passed" class survey....they had serious, gross faults.

So excuse my scepticism.....



Most flag states have sacked all their radio surveyors, given up on radio surveys and passed them to class. 

Australia has done just that - to their eternal shame.

The lack of proper inspection of GMDSS equipment, combined with deck officers who have little knowledge on how to operate the equipment has lead to a serious decline in ship safety radio services.

As touched on earlier, R/O's should have been re-trained/re-utilised as ETOs - but with the maintenance of the comms gear included in their responsibilities. 

Moreover, their emergency station should have been to operate the GMDSS equipment as a traditional professional communicator, leaving the old man and the mates free to fight the fire/plug the leak/launch the boats, etc.

As I am sure you will agree Richard, the GMDSS is a mess. Deck Officers are not interested in using the comms gear, bar the VHF.

Safety at Sea....we really haven't learned much since the Titanic.


----------



## richardwakeley

Thanks Troppo,
As a former R/O, R/E/O and then E/O, who went through those days of taperecording 500kHz and hardly ever going in the radio room, I agree with all your comments. Although I would say that in our company at least we do properly check the GMDSS gear. You are right there may be a commercial conflict, but this can work both ways. The company can benefit from surveyors finding deficiencies, but at the same time I don't like to find deficiencies which I will have to repair (at great expense to the owners). We have to be very strict with our surveys because we are also aware of your point that Port State may find deficiencies which we failed to notice.
With apologies to the 'owners' of this ST1400 thread, I have gone too far off track.
Happy New Year, Richard

PS. Re most flag states giving up on radio surveys. I have attended a couple of ships in Chinese shipyards for 'pre-checking' equipment before government radio surveyors from a large island nation (somewhere between my QTH and yours) did their so-called survey, which consisted only of filling in the forms and having a holiday at shipowners' expense. Sadly, the good old days of the responsible maritime nations have gone for ever, along with our fleets.


----------



## duncs

Varley said:


> I don't know why you couple IoM, Bermuda and Hong Kong in that snide fashion.



David, there was no offence intended in my post. At the time, reading the thread, a few 'low flyers' down, I connected you with the above. It was neither sniding nor insinuating, it was more a statement. They all shat on me. I sailed DSM ships with GTZM, no probs. Joined D/Bermuda '83 as R/O, done them favours, for poor wages. Shifted pillar to post amongst the above, then dropped, without notice, when they didn't want me. I joined the EB Carrier as ETO, through an agency, around 90/91. I didn't know D were involved. Worst seagoing wreck I'd come across. It would take pages to describe the gennies, worse the emgcy genie/switchboard(I still have my notebooks). We got the IGS working(or at least passed survey), so the owner wanted to carry oil! Fck that! Get me off; and I did get off. But the final insult was still to come. I'd got part wages in $ aboard and the balance in £ from the agency, later. Then out of the blue, a letter from the taxman saying that D had informed them that I had been working, without paying tax, for x period of time on that vessel. I had no connection with D at that time, nor knew that they had any connection with the vessel. That's my gripe regarding what I thought of as the 'trinity'. Is there a Celtic connection there, somewhere, even HK?

All the best, to you and yours, for the New Year.
You take it easy on the 'Vera Lynn', I'll take it easy on the 'low flyer',

Regards, Duncs


----------



## Troppo

richardwakeley said:


> . We have to be very strict with our surveys because we are also aware of your point that Port State may find deficiencies which we failed to notice.



Happy NY to you too.

Re PSC - don't sweat it...PSCs are done by Deck and Engine Surveyors....


----------



## Varley

duncs said:


> David, there......for poor wages...... Worst seagoing wreck I'd come across. It would take pages to describe the gennies, worse the emgcy genie/switchboard(I still have my notebooks). We got the IGS working.......a letter from the taxman saying that D had informed them that I had been working....nor knew that they had any connection with the vessel. That's my gripe regarding what I thought of as the 'trinity'. Is there a Celtic connection there, somewhere, even HK?
> 
> Duncs,
> 
> You can certainly couple the blame for poor wages as R/O in Denholm Bermuda with me. My intention was to deliberately encourage only those who wanted a 'proper' job. Anyway it didn't last long as Frank McNeilage introduced some ridiculous seniority increment that all but wiped out the difference. I have always considered the right scale (for the right person of course) to be 2.5 rings. He will never (rarely) have the responsibility of department working boss but will (should) always be 3rd in the technical team.
> 
> Snide was perhaps the wrong word. You seemed to be coupling the Marine Administrations in the three jurisdictions with the Diamond D. We certainly had offices in each but no sort of coupling that could influence the rigour with which the Admins applied regulations (and as I said they were all 'pukah'). The friendly relationship with Mr. Sonmez (very well meaning but short of the sort of earnings needed to run the fleet he wanted) varied between full management and management from Turkey with a Denholm technical implant (the brightest and best being a occasional SN'r). Some might also say that the continues ownership of certain OBOs into CAST and then Fairwind and onwards further (I think more than one to Mr. Sonmez) might have had something more to do with expectations of continuing management than 'honest Jock' (those, of course, personal and subjective opinions).
> 
> I don't remember much use of agency workers (you weren't one of Mrs. Roth's were you?). I do know of a later and serious erring with employers NI to satisfy a client. It threatened the Company (rather than individuals) but was much later.
> 
> At least you kept EB Carriers emergency switchboard from burning down. Cast Fulmar's, I didn't.
> 
> David V


----------



## Ian Beattie

The first Crusader from the production line nr 0001 was fitted on the Shell tanker "Serenia" and as stated before this was an upgrade from an NT201. The year would be 1965. Isn't it amazing the amount of useless cr*p that floats around your head.

_______________

useeimbutunoseeim Bass


----------



## trotterdotpom

"You can certainly couple the blame for poor wages as R/O in Denholm Bermuda with me. My intention was to deliberately encourage only those who wanted a 'proper' job."

Huh? Can't quite see the logic there, David? When you got your super Super's job did you validate your presence by giving some of your salary back?

John T


----------



## Varley

(Applause) But, as I spent most of my time in the UK (as opposed to the Isle of Man where I had been domiciled) and unable to escape with the 'days abroad' that you were then getting the answer is probably yes!

I have to say that I only coupled my self with 'poor' wages as it had already been cited. I don't think you can call 4th engineers wages for an R/O who is only interested in sending a 'togo' twice a week and 'doing' the bond and a few crew lists 'poor' - just because we had to be there 'in case' does not mean that the 'in case' time could not have been put to good use too. Those embracing ETO started at 3rd Engineers wages. Far too much of SOLAS is concerned in getting out of trouble. More should be spent on not getting there in the first place!

(And it was a super job too, not quite ECO on the GTVs and not without its drudgery but to be at, prudential, play all one's working life and be paid for it - not many could make that claim. I did do my best to make places and encourage others to join in, unfortunately not while I was at sea. A real ... hit to my juniors especially if I saw them eyeing 'My toys'. It probably hardened them up for their own solo careers quite well, equally that may be me justifying myself).


----------



## duncs

Varley said:


> (Applause) But, as I spent most of my time in the UK (as opposed to the Isle of Man where I had been domiciled) and unable to escape with the 'days abroad' that you were then getting the answer is probably yes!
> 
> I have to say that I only coupled my self with 'poor' wages as it had already been cited. I don't think you can call 4th engineers wages for an R/O who is only interested in sending a 'togo' twice a week and 'doing' the bond and a few crew lists 'poor' - just because we had to be there 'in case' does not mean that the 'in case' time could not have been put to good use too. Those embracing ETO started at 3rd Engineers wages. Far too much of SOLAS is concerned in getting out of trouble. More should be spent on not getting there in the first place!
> 
> (And it was a super job too, not quite ECO on the GTVs and not without its drudgery but to be at, prudential, play all one's working life and be paid for it - not many could make that claim. I did do my best to make places and encourage others to join in, unfortunately not while I was at sea. A real ... hit to my juniors especially if I saw them eyeing 'My toys'. It probably hardened them up for their own solo careers quite well, equally that may be me justifying myself).


Varley,
you are talking absolute sh1te!!!


----------



## G4UMW

Dunno about thread drift - this one's going full ahead!


----------



## duncs

Varley said:


> I have to say that I only coupled my self with 'poor' wages as it had already been cited. I don't think you can call 4th engineers wages for an R/O who is only interested in sending a 'togo' twice a week and 'doing' the bond and a few crew lists 'poor' - just because we had to be there 'in case' does not mean that the 'in case' time could not have been put to good use too.


This is the 'sh1te' I mean. I am furious at Varley, insinuating that the R/O did fck all. He might have posed on the GTV's, shook the 'right' hands, but that is no reason to denigrate the R/O's who kept the job going!!


----------



## trotterdotpom

duncs said:


> Varley,
> you are talking absolute sh1te!!!


Duncs, I think it's the gin talking rather than David. Doesn't make a lot of sense ... I for one have no idea what a "togo" is. The rest of it seems to be him shooting himself in the foot as far as the consciencious former ROs will be concerned.

John T


----------



## duncs

Ach, you're right JT. I just had a blast of indignation there. I'm fairly well qualified as a R/O, the usual MRGC, Radar cert. etc., plus electronics dip. Was on same wages as 4/E and 3/O, first trippers.
I was going to elaborate, but not worth while.

Rgds, D


----------



## Varley

duncs said:


> Varley,
> you are talking absolute sh1te!!!


Now, that is more like it! But you seem to think that I did not spend two years at college amongst many who had no thought other than a decent and comfortable job (as an indicator perhaps out of 30 or so starting when I did passed at first attempt - in my case not quite accurate as I had to take a morse retest) and then four years practicing exactly that. A few weeks camping at the depot at East Ham raised my opinion of my fellow R/Os not a jot further. After another year at college I was then farmed out as ECO. 

ECO! Initially those companies that employed them had no idea how to utilise them or had had any plan before doing so. I am sure they thought they were doing it in the hope (in my case, vane) they were employing an Operator with a lower level of alcohol consumption.

When the industry finally got around to finding us of some use and even generated some demand the majority of the existing 'stock' proved wanting with the first 'flush' of interest mopping up the few capable in short order. 

It was a great pity. We had an electrical education although not perfect, very much better than many E/Os (also talking in generalities). 

Please aim your attempts to kid at others I know better. Why not try Mr Murphy if he is still denying oxygen to the more worthy. Ability apart, our Union did its best to ensure we would have no prepared 'home' following GMDSS. If you see nothing at all in what I opine I recommend you get new spectacles.


----------



## Varley

trotterdotpom said:


> Duncs, I think it's the gin talking rather than David. Doesn't make a lot of sense ... I for one have no idea what a "togo" is. The rest of it seems to be him shooting himself in the foot as far as the consciencious former ROs will be concerned.
> 
> John T


(Distance TO GO, to be on ship manager's desk Mondays and Thursdays, if I remember correctly).

Not a drop!


----------



## duncs

Varley said:


> If you see nothing at all in what I opine I recommend you get new spectacles.


Yes, You're right, and your above suggestion is quite apt. I didn't get new spectacles, I got implants in both eyes. Why?, cataracts on both eyes. Reason(for cataracts)? Probable cause?, micro waves. I went virtually blind, in the space of 3 months. Had it anything to do with my occupation?. I don't know. It finished off my career at sea.
Never mind, David, sit back and relax, I'll do the same.

Rgds,
Duncs


----------



## Ian Beattie

Re #86 David what a foul calumny to even think a drop of alcohol would pass through the lips of a communications expert, Fie sirree I will see thee in the field of combat at dawn - or errr perhaps a little later when the thumping goes out me head - on second thoughts sod it !!

___________________

useeimbutunoseeim Bass


----------



## duncs

Ian Beattie said:


> Re #86 David what a foul calumny to even think a drop of alcohol would pass through the lips of a communications expert, Fie sirree I will see thee in the field of combat at dawn - or errr perhaps a little later when the thumping goes out me head - on second thoughts sod it !!
> 
> ___________________
> 
> useeimbutunoseeim Bass


Methinks someone else is testing out the altitude of the low flyer?


----------



## Troppo

This is the thread that keeps on giving!

Pissed R/O's?

What!



Full ahead both!


----------



## Varley

R651400 said:


> Maybe so but if I get DV's drift and being more of a former Duncs style R/O ie well off the park by the time of all these happenings, do I understand ETO would have extended our metier into GMDSS and beyond?


In my opinion absolutely. Look at those holding senior technical positions afloat and ashore, education as opposed to time served must (please God) be in the majority (the best of these will also have been time served - unfortunately the industry could not afford to do both itself - experience is easy enough to provide but education was always expected as part of the package provided by the state, cost shared across the board - just as it is for anyone in further education).


----------



## Varley

duncs said:


> Yes, You're right, and your above suggestion is quite apt. I didn't get new spectacles, I got implants in both eyes. Why?, cataracts on both eyes. Reason(for cataracts)? Probable cause?, micro waves. I went virtually blind, in the space of 3 months. Had it anything to do with my occupation?. I don't know. It finished off my career at sea.
> Never mind, David, sit back and relax, I'll do the same.
> 
> Rgds,
> Duncs


Duncs, that is a disgrace. Even I, without he benefit of RMC knew (by 1975 anyway) that looking directly into waveguide might cause cataracts. Did you take known risks or were you denied earlier access to RMC/adequate alternative education? If you took a known risk (as I am sure we all did) that is one thing. To be 'thrust' in to the fray unarmed is quite another. Did you have to contribute to your treatment?

Don't worry about me, relaxation is about all I have to do these days and I hope to become time served in due course.


----------



## Varley

Just two comments.

Please note any commentary I have on this topic is 'published' only to this forum.

And a quote from a bard popular in the present season:

O wad some Power the giftie gie us 
To see oursels as ithers see us!


----------



## Varley

Ian Beattie said:


> Re #86 David what a foul calumny to even think a drop of alcohol would pass through the lips of a communications expert, Fie sirree I will see thee in the field of combat at dawn - or errr perhaps a little later when the thumping goes out me head - on second thoughts sod it !!
> 
> ___________________
> 
> useeimbutunoseeim Bass


You are no expert Sir, I wasted not a drop on moistening the lips!


----------



## Varley

Troppo said:


> This is the thread that keeps on giving!
> 
> Pissed R/O's?
> 
> What!
> 
> 
> 
> Full ahead both!


Only the amateurs got pissed the rest of us were too practiced.


----------



## duncs

Varley said:


> Duncs, that is a disgrace. Even I, without he benefit of RMC knew (by 1975 anyway) that looking directly into waveguide might cause cataracts. Did you take known risks or were you denied earlier access to RMC/adequate alternative education? If you took a known risk (as I am sure we all did) that is one thing. To be 'thrust' in to the fray unarmed is quite another.



David, silly as I am, I've always been aware of the dangers of radiation. I can only remember, once, having to open the WG, with water in it. I think it's insulting of you, to suggest I'd be so stupid, as to look into a live WG. Did you switch off the radar, before fault-finding on it? Did you black out the ship before fault-finding on the main S/B?
Bi for now,
D


----------



## duncs

David, re radars, I forgot this one. See....http://www.shipsnostalgia.com/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/202273/title/nordic-chieftainfitting-out/cat/510
I'm not sure if I inserted the link correctly, but if you can view the photo(thanks to whoever contributed it), I removed that ADU/scanner at the top of the mast, to replace the rotating joint in the WG.


----------



## Varley

duncs said:


> David, silly as I am, I've always been aware of the dangers of radiation. I can only remember, once, having to open the WG, with water in it. I think it's insulting of you, to suggest I'd be so stupid, as to look into a live WG. Did you switch off the radar, before fault-finding on it? Did you black out the ship before fault-finding on the main S/B?
> Bi for now,
> D


I'd never (rarely) criticise an individual and sorry if you thought my clumsy English was attempting to do so. I wanted to know if you knew if the condition was certainly caused by proximity to radar. I have several friends who have had cataracts, none (until now) associated with microwave 'stuff' although the youngest is late 50s or so.

Of course we didn't look down active waveguide - that was just telling you how I was told about it. There is nothing different about a switchboard. Fault finding often needed to be live. Doing anything more than that with the juice on was simply unnecessary risk taking and not permitted by IEC 60092-509 (interestingly enough not so ashore where linesmen have one set of operational procedures which ensure they can carry out live work safely and do so even when this is not necessary. I watched them temporarily bridge two phases of my domestic supply, following the failure of one, Instead of pulling the fuses and putting the bridge downstream they did it on the supply side).


----------



## Ian Beattie

Just as a thought I never touched a drop of alcohol whist at sea and I'm sure I'm not the only one, however, once in port , that indeed was a very diffent kettle of fish, but nothing to do with the ST1400 transmitter, oops ! pass

________________

useeimbutunoseeim Bass


----------



## david.hopcroft

I see that this thread has digressed yet again !

Let us go back to the point in this thread where RO's were about to become extinct. My last trip was in late 1967 on what was then a super tanker - 89,000 tons. The ST1400 was then but a dream ! The conflicts of the period saw us diverted from a loaded passage from the Gulf to Oz to the Mediterranean. Though we had a brief stop to top up bunkers, one day was very much like another. The return light ship to the Gulf was 32 mind-numbing non-stop days which required me to look at yesterdays log to write what todays date was. I would hardly say that any of the departments worked any harder than another during that boring time - just had different responsibilities. 

But leap forward to today and we have live video of the rescue of the passengers from a ship stuck in Antarctic ice. A very long way from bashing two bits of brass together, and not in all that a long time scale !!

Times do change don't they ? or should that be evolution ?

David

+


----------



## endure

My first trip as an R/O was in 1975 on the British Progress (225,000dwt). The combination of slow steaming because of the 1973 oil crisis and a draft too deep for Suez meant that we took 58 days to get from Ras Al Khaimah to Wilhelmshaven. The only break we had was a helicopter mail and stores drop at Cape Town. After we'd discharged at Wilhelmshaven we turned around and did it all again - twice. Then they let me go home for a while. (Applause)


----------



## Peter Eccleson

What a 'roller coaster thread' this one has been!
I see that there are attempts to get it back to the ST1400......

From my part, sailed with any St1200's through St1400's and one ST1600 .... Great transmitters and a lot better and more reliable than the Mimco stuff or the Redifon rubbish - RMT1500. The nearest quality transmitter was the Ericsson stuff from EB Marine. Interesting that both the ITT and the EB were Scandinavian design/build. Quality! 

Now back in the loop ..... Quality seems an issue with the deviation from this thread about Denholm managed vessels and equipment fitted there albeit switchboards! 
Over to you guys..... (Jester)


----------



## duncs

Best gear I sailed with, EB stuff. The Norsks knew how to look after their own.


----------



## duncs

david.hopcroft said:


> I see that this thread has digressed yet again.
> 
> Times do change don't they ? or should that be evolution ?
> 
> David
> 
> +


Your pose is very familiar to me. 'Evolution'? Is that a R50M I see there?


----------



## endure

I have a picture of a Redifon radio room somewhere. I must scan and upload it. Anyone sail with the Mackay Marine 3021? Lovely!


----------



## GW3OQK

Peter Eccleson;726014 the Redifon rubbish - RMT1500. )[/QUOTE said:


> Peter, why was the Redifon RMT1500 rubbish? Why not start a new thread about it to avoid confusion, and give us the facts, for I found it great.
> Andrew


----------



## endure

Redifon radio room as promised. ('Scuse the scribbles)


----------



## duncs

endure said:


> Redifon radio room as promised. ('Scuse the scribbles)


Looks like a nice station you had there, Endure. What's the main rx? The metal tuning dial reminds me of the R408, but I think that one's newer.
Rgds, Duncs


----------



## endure

I think it was an R408 but wouldn't swear to it. The Bounty class were owned by Sea Containers when I worked for them. 

They all had the same radio room. They were small box boats with their own gantry crane and stern ramp so we could go to places like Hodeidah, Aqaba and Jeddah which didn't have their own cranes at the time. 

We had two runs Felixstome-Le Havre-Suez-Jeddha-Hodeidah-Aqaba or Geelong-Sharjah-Bandar Shapour-Colombo-Singapore. 

8 officers and 12 crew - Filipino on the Aussie run. The Sparky did 6 on 6 off cargo watches in port driving the crane B\)


----------



## duncs

Sounds like an interesting enough job. I hope you got a night ashore in Geelong!


----------



## endure

We weren't allowed to drive the crane in Oz - the dockers had to do it. They used to send a different gang down every time so we had to spend a day teaching them how to do it. They worked 0800-1700. If you wanted an extra week in port all you had to do was move the crane in the dead of night. When they arrived the next day and saw it had been moved they'd go on strike (Thumb)


----------



## Ian Beattie

Oh yes we all remember the dreaded words "where's the delegate" this is unless you wanted a few extra days in port, as the previous one suggests they were very easy to annoy - thems the daze

___________________

useeimbutunoseeim Bass


----------



## duncs

endure said:


> We weren't allowed to drive the crane in Oz - the dockers had to do it. They used to send a different gang down every time so we had to spend a day teaching them how to do it. They worked 0800-1700. If you wanted an extra week in port all you had to do was move the crane in the dead of night. When they arrived the next day and saw it had been moved they'd go on strike (Thumb)


Yep, that's the Oz dockers that I remember. Was there on a geared bulker, 3 x Leibherr cranes. The vertical ladders up to the cranes were too high, the dockers refused to go up them. Shoreside brought in, ladders split, with a platform put in, halfway up. It must have cost the shipowner a fortune! As for getting an extra day in port, have a 'coldie' and a ciggie with the foreman and suggest, 'fck it, I don't feel like sailing tomorrow!'. Usual response, 'No problem'.
However, I don't want to knock them, too much. They looked after me, when trying to earn a few extra bucks, working on the quay, whilst on a ****ty 'Star boat'.


----------



## david.hopcroft

Yes indeed, R50M it is. We are in early 1967 here. AEI T50MH, separate MF & HF transmitter and matching Safmarine rig. GMOH is the Mobil Astral, and it was the 2nd Mates new polaroid. Quite a happy snappy sort with his new toy !! I seem to remember the selotape was part of a Mobil directive that all gear should have a 'How To...' easy user guide affixed to it !! 

David

+


----------



## Quiney

endure said:


> I have a picture of a Redifon radio room somewhere. I must scan and upload it. Anyone sail with the Mackay Marine 3021? Lovely!


Can't remember the ship, but I had a 3021 as the main rx, with a 3020 as the reserve - nice http://www.shipsnostalgia.com/images/smilies/thumb.gif


----------



## GW3OQK

Endure and Duncs, the RX is the R551, proper synthesized top notch rx. TX is the great RMT 1500S. 
A


----------



## endure

Cheers EXRO.


----------



## duncs

Thanks, EXRO. I recognised(sailed with), the rest of the gear, but was stumped re the rx. Did it actually have the same tuning dial as the R408?
Oh, sorry, am also lost re the bit of kit on port side! Is it a VHF?
Rgds, D


----------



## Moulder

duncs said:


> Thanks, EXRO. I recognised(sailed with), the rest of the gear, but was stumped re the rx. Did it actually have the same tuning dial as the R408?
> Oh, sorry, am also lost re the bit of kit on port side! Is it a VHF?
> Rgds, D


Yes duncs it is a VHF - Sealand 66 if my memory serves me right.

(Thumb)


----------



## Troppo

endure said:


> Redifon radio room as promised. ('Scuse the scribbles)


I sailed with that gear in the Barron Murray/GWES.

Not a bad station.


----------



## GW3OQK

The R551 knob was 2-speed, inner and outer I recall and different to the R408. The reserve rx was an Eddystone rebadged and better on MF, the VHF MRT66. there's a reseve MF tx and autoalarm too. The station looks good but was the minimum regs allowed. I see you brought your own paddle.
73
Andrew


----------



## endure

A Samson ETM-3. 
http://www.radiomuseum.org/r/samson_etm_3c.html

I still have its fancier replacement ETM-8 extended which I bought to replace it
http://www.radiomuseum.org/r/samson_c_mos_memory_keyer_etm_8c_extended_version.html


----------



## endure

Can anyone remember the name of the ITT receiver that used what looked like clear movie film with numbers printed on it to indicate frequency?


----------



## endure

No this was not as tall as the RA17 and was in the Standard Radio & Telefon green finish. Probably about 6 inches high and wide enough to fit in a 19" rack.


----------



## G4UMW

I think the receiver you mean was a re-badged Plessey PR-155. It had an IMR type number that I can't remember. Like the RA-17 you selected MHz with one control then tuned within that 1 MHz range with the main tuning control.

I used one on my first two trips as junior R/O on the Booker Vanguard/MHEM.

Image here: http://www.radiomuseum.org/r/plessey_pr_155pr15.html

Edit: After racking my brain all day, I think that it _might_ have been called the IMR5000.


----------



## endure

IMR 5000 rings a bell.


----------



## Quiney

G4UMW said:


> I think the receiver you mean was a re-badged Plessey PR-155. It had an IMR type number that I can't remember. Like the RA-17 you selected MHz with one control then tuned within that 1 MHz range with the main tuning control.
> 
> I used one on my first two trips as junior R/O on the Booker Vanguard/MHEM.
> 
> Image here: http://www.radiomuseum.org/r/plessey_pr_155pr15.html
> 
> Edit: After racking my brain all day, I think that it _might_ have been called the IMR5000.


Mossy willl never forgive you for not remembering that!


----------



## G4UMW

Quiney said:


> Mossy willl never forgive you for not remembering that!


Ah, Mr Moss - the perfect chief for a first-trip sparky.

As the saying went; "In the beginning God created Mossy, then He built the Booker Vanguard".

Happy days!


----------



## Peter Eccleson

EXRO said:


> Peter, why was the Redifon RMT1500 rubbish? Why not start a new thread about it to avoid confusion, and give us the facts, for I found it great.
> Andrew


EXRO,
Speak as you find. Sailed with three RMT1500's and they all suffered from spurious transmissions at various harmonics and operational faults due to the faults created by the connections between each the modules, particularly in the synthesiser.

Three out of three and all had similar issues......hence my evaluation of it as 'junk'.


----------



## endure

I had two chiefs as a first trip sparky (it was a round the Cape type ship). The first one spent 8 weeks buggering up the auxiliary HF transmitter. The second one (who signed up under age to go to sea in 1940) proved that you can send fluent 20 wpm Morse with a key gap so large that it makes the whole shack vibrate


----------



## duncs

Moulder said:


> Yes duncs it is a VHF - Sealand 66 if my memory serves me right.
> 
> (Thumb)


You should be well able to recognise your gear, Steve. You wo'n't remember me, but I seem to remember you showing me the Russian gear on the Al Ahmadiah. You asked me if I wanted a bug key, out of the radio spares locker! When/where? I recognised you from previous posts and mimco magazine poses. I was on the Ibn Abdoun, just after that. Plus, were you a Union HD?

Regards, Duncs


----------



## trotterdotpom

Duncs, did you ever run into an RO called Geoff Roberts (from Wallsall)? He spent a bit of time on KSC Russkis.

John T


----------



## Moulder

duncs said:


> You should be well able to recognise your gear, Steve. You wo'n't remember me, but I seem to remember you showing me the Russian gear on the Al Ahmadiah. You asked me if I wanted a bug key, out of the radio spares locker! When/where? I recognised you from previous posts and mimco magazine poses. I was on the Ibn Abdoun, just after that. Plus, were you a Union HD?
> 
> Regards, Duncs


Hi duncs - Re the VHF - had a similar console/set up on Jebsens Clydenes and Clarkenes.

Can't say I remember you but, was certainly on the Al Ahmadiah and Al Shamiah. The spares locker on those ships were full of all sorts of goodies - and yep was an HD for the REOU for a time.

Regards,

Steve.

(Thumb)


----------



## duncs

trotterdotpom said:


> Duncs, did you ever run into an RO called Geoff Roberts (from Wallsall)? He spent a bit of time on KSC Russkis.
> 
> John T



Sorry, John, no. I didn't sail on the Russkis, my only trip with KSC was on Ibn abdoun, a 'K' class. I sailed out of Bombay for about 19mths(BI) and would often meet ROs off other ships, which is probably where I met Moulder, maybe in the Taj, where we(BI) were regulars. Steve's is probably the only name I remember. Maybe due to MIMCO/KSC/Jebsen/REOU connection, I recognised him from previous SN posts.
Steve, I spent a few years on Rocknes/Rollnes, plus Freenes. I think my last ship at sea was Risnes.

Rgds, Duncs


----------



## Moulder

Duncs - were you on the Dwarka in VWB? Remember visiting and some of us accompanying you regular Bombay lads up the road. 

Steve.

(Thumb)


----------



## duncs

Moulder said:


> Duncs - were you on the Dwarka in VWB? Remember visiting and some of us accompanying you regular Bombay lads up the road.
> 
> Steve.
> 
> (Thumb)


Yes, Steve, I was one of the reprobates on that vessel. I hope we didn't take you 'innocent' lads astray there. They were good times.

Duncs


----------



## trotterdotpom

Thanks, Duncs. 

John T


----------



## Ian Beattie

Steve & Duncs I thought the Dwarka was razor blades by the 70's - memory is a strange beastie ?

_________________

useeimbutunoseeim Bass


----------



## sparks69

endure said:


> IMR 5000 rings a bell.


Blip - blip, blip - blip, Blip - blip........................
The sound of an IMR 5000 with a PLL problem...............
Solution - chew out the lead through capacitors on certain modules....
Get bo******ing from Marine Super for damaging a piece of rented equipment !


----------



## duncs

Ian Beattie said:


> Steve & Duncs I thought the Dwarka was razor blades by the 70's - memory is a strange beastie ?
> 
> _________________
> 
> useeimbutunoseeim Bass


No way Ian. I took the Sirdhana to the razor blade factory in Taiwan, mid '72. I was on the Dwarka for 13mths afterwards. A/C units in each room(officers, that is), bliss. Late '72, the oceanspan/mercury/electra, replaced by commandant/nebula. More bliss! No a/c in radio room, mind you. That horrible 'Hermes' was still there when I left. I think she still sailed for a few years after that.

Rgds, D


----------



## endure

Anyone know who made the headphones that turned your ears into very flat things? Aluminium headband, bakelite earpiece and flat metal plate as a diaphragm?


----------



## G4UMW

S G Brown & Co?


----------



## Moulder

duncs said:


> No way Ian. I took the Sirdhana to the razor blade factory in Taiwan, mid '72. I was on the Dwarka for 13mths afterwards. A/C units in each room(officers, that is), bliss. Late '72, the oceanspan/mercury/electra, replaced by commandant/nebula. More bliss! No a/c in radio room, mind you. That horrible 'Hermes' was still there when I left. I think she still sailed for a few years after that.
> 
> Rgds, D


Well that has got the old memory cells working duncs - how about this then? 

I seem to remember that the morse key in the Dwarka radio room was on a shelf at knee level under the operators desk - am I right?

.......... and ........ did your cabins have stable type doors - ie top portion could open leaving bottom panel closed. Funny what things stick in your mind and that was from one visit. 

Think it was the other way around re leading us astray - we did appreciate you 'local' lads taking us to a few spots but we didn't play fair when we did a 'dead ants' in the foyer of the Taj - hope it didn't get you lads a bad name.

Thanks for the QSO - has brought some nostalgic memories to the fore ...... which really is what this site is all about.

Cheers,

Steve.

(Thumb)

(Hi Ian - Happy New Year mate.)


----------



## endure

G4UMW

Cheers

they're on Ebay at 45 quid a set


----------



## Ian Beattie

Duncs I did one trip with BI on the Waroonga UK-Oz and back but I seem to remember a 3/e got trans-shiped in Cape town on his way to join a real old timer with a name like Rajula ?? anyway I don't think there was an original plate on the vessel (India to Indonesia and back) cargo passengers. The reason being that at that time the Indian government would not allow BI any new tonnage on the coast and if they did the Indian shipping companies replaced the vessel with one or more of their own - nasty trick that. So maybe thats part explanation why the "D" boats lasted so long, always had good paint jobs too !

___________

useeimbutunoseeim Bass


----------



## richardwakeley

G'day Ian,

Rajula was on the Madras-Singapore service. As you say, a real old timer. I saw it at Singapore several times in the 70s. The Indians already had a competing ship on the service by then - Chidaramban (aka Chitty Chitty Bang Bang). Quite a few photos in the Gallery here.

Brgds, Richard


----------



## GW3OQK

Peter, 
your opinion of the RMT1500S being "junk" sounds well founded. 

I was 1R/O on Rajula for 3 years in late 60s.
Andrew


----------



## duncs

Moulder said:


> Well that has got the old memory cells working duncs - how about this then?
> 
> I seem to remember that the morse key in the Dwarka radio room was on a shelf at knee level under the operators desk - am I right?
> 
> .......... and ........ did your cabins have stable type doors - ie top portion could open leaving bottom panel closed. Funny what things stick in your mind and that was from one visit.
> 
> Think it was the other way around re leading us astray - we did appreciate you 'local' lads taking us to a few spots but we didn't play fair when we did a 'dead ants' in the foyer of the Taj - hope it didn't get you lads a bad name.
> 
> Thanks for the QSO - has brought some nostalgic memories to the fore ...... which really is what this site is all about.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Steve.
> 
> (Thumb)
> 
> (Hi Ian - Happy New Year mate.)



Steve, I've been away for a couple of days and just seen this. 
You are absolutely correct! I'm amazed you remember the morse key. It was at a comfortable level, and left a bit of desk space. Maybe that's why you were offering me a Russki bug! Re the cabin doors, they were jalousie doors(slatted). The main door opened into the alloway and hooked back, the jalousie door had a space, top and bottom, and opened inwards.
Re the Taj, no probs, we were good customers, plus they knew us.

73's
Duncs

Ian, I see someone else has responded re the Rajula, she was 20's vintage.
D


----------



## Moulder

duncs said:


> Steve, I've been away for a couple of days and just seen this.
> You are absolutely correct! I'm amazed you remember the morse key. It was at a comfortable level, and left a bit of desk space. Maybe that's why you were offering me a Russki bug! Re the cabin doors, they were jalousie doors(slatted). The main door opened into the alloway and hooked back, the jalousie door had a space, top and bottom, and opened inwards.
> Re the Taj, no probs, we were good customers, plus they knew us.
> 
> 73's
> Duncs
> 
> Ian, I see someone else has responded re the Rajula, she was 20's vintage.
> D


Thanks duncs - I remember that visit well - you and your 2nd RO were very hospitable and it was a pleasure meeting you and having a look around.

(Thumb)


----------



## Ian Beattie

Moulder you old smoothie any excuse for a freebie just like me - but I think there was something about the BI boats late 50's early 60's and I think they all has jalousie slatted doors plus the normal cabin door since most of them didn't possess A/C and it was a cheapskate way out - I also think most were built on the Clyde maybe it would be a design mega boats same style (almost) very good price my boyz ! (all the Best to U and Duncs)
______________

Useeimbutunoseeim Bass


----------



## Varley

The slats were required on most air conditioned vessels as well, as on recirc or total loss there had to be a 'return' from the cabin. I was also told that the louvered panel served as a kick out escape in case the door frame was distorted in a collision and the door proper wouldn't open - never saw this written anywhere subsequently.


----------



## Troppo

Military comcens on warships are required to have a kick out panel.


----------



## Moulder

I seem to recall every ship I sailed on had a 'crash panel' fitted in the lower portion of each cabin door.

(Thumb)


----------



## trotterdotpom

I remember that too. I used to wonder how I would get my beer gut through it if required.

John T


----------



## trotterdotpom

R651400: "At sea in the tropics with just a cabin circulating fan, louvred door and cool air scoops on the portholes what more could one wish for!"

AC.

John T


----------



## trotterdotpom

I know but you got used to it.

I remember my first experience of air conditioning .... The Intercontinental in Monrovia. Fantastic, my shirt dried in about a minute. I loved it ... That's the end of that story.

John T

PS i remember folk kipping out on deck but I couldn't because of the poxy auto alarm.


----------

