# Manchester Ship Canal



## sheringham

Recently took my grandson to the Lowry gallery in Salford Quays. Among other exhibitions was one relating to the MSC.

It reminded me that as an apprentice with BP Tanker Co in 1959 (British Strength) I had traversed the canal to the Cadishead fuel depot to discharged heavy fuel oil loaded at Old Kilpatrick. I had never stepped and dropped masts before and it was a good lesson learned but true to life...never a single question at ticket exams and never repeated.
Question asked was how did we get out again?
I don't remember going through the Barton Locks so those of you in the know please enlighten me

Ron


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## bob2bob

Depending on size it is possible to swing below Irlam lock, bow into big lock, use the bullnose, stern round into sluiceway, you are then head down. John


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## Tony Shaw

I've been wanting to put a thread out re-the Manchester Ship Canal for some time now but never got round to it. As a young lad I was never away from Latchford Locks, living in Warrington, and when I eventually went to sea I went up and down the canal several times. Leaving deep sea ,I spent a year on the Manchester sludge boat "Mancunium", after which I became lockmaster at Latchford Locks. After 8 years I returned to seagoing and went up and down it yet again on Harrison Line vessels. Unlike the majority of people I thought gthe canal was one of wonders of the world. (I even liked the smell of the water in summer !!!) It would be nice to hear of from those who have experienced the pleasures (or displeasures) of transitting 'the big ditch'


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## Windsor

My first of many canal transits was in 1960, when movement ceased at sunset. One of our choice pilots was Jack Warren, luckily, because he would always press on to a set of dolphins, or whatever else offered for a night berth, that was within striking distance of a pub; albeit usually involving a mile or two's hike across ploughed fields!


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## Trader

*Ship Canal*

Ron,

you must have come up to Salford Docks to turn around unless your vessel was quite small and you swung below Irlam locks as bob2bob says. I joined an iron ore boat, Orelia, at Irlam steel works and had to come all the way to Manchester to turn round. I have also joined ships at Partington coal basin and we were small enough to swing below Irlam locks.

Tony,

I spent over ten years up and down the canal mostly on Manchester Liners from 1956 to 1966. I was also on Prince Line, Robertsons of Glasgow (Gem Line), WM. H. Muller & Co.( Paris & Rouen run on the Somme) and a couple of one offs, s.s."Uskmouth" and Kyle of Lochalsh. The last time I was up there was in 1972 on the Baltic Viking.
One of the AB's on the Viking was Stan Perry who went on to become Bosun on the Mancunium. You may have sailed with him.

Windsor,

I cannot remember stopping navigation at sunset, in fact I remember sailing at midnight on the Manchester Fame in 1964. Don't ask me why I remember it's a long story.(Jester)

Regards..............Alec.


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## bob2bob

The bank navigation lights made night movement possible, if I can recall correctly if you had a light level with your bow the next but one was in the middle of the canal.
Tony the smell from Irlam up could be a bit heavy espcially after a night on the beer, and Irlam lock full of pink foam, I can remember as a tug lad ( tug man from 68 to 84)Latchford was a regular pit stop for food and cigarettes from the shop near to the dairy and you had the time of locking up or down to get there and back. If we were fog bound it was everyone into the Richmonds club.

Most of the ships you mention I would have come into contact with, Jack Warren is a name I have not heard in a long time, No matter where on the canal you moored there was nearly always a pub apart from a few isolated berths I think Moore lane dolphins was about the worst. you could set your watch with the passage time of ore boats Eastham to berth 8hrs berth up swing and down to Eastham 10hrs.

I know it always seemed that the red container boats of Manchester liners always seemed to leave 9dock 1 after 18.00. Tony I bet it was like an office job being on the Manc after being deep sea, start Monday finished Friday morning.
John


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## Tony Shaw

Alec/
I don't remember Stan Perry but I had a friend on the "Baltic Viking", an engineer from Warrington, but I'm having a senior moment and can't remember his name !!

John/
I know what you mean about the pink foam. I remember the Warren brothers, choice pilots for the Prince Line. Lovely chaps and neither of them could drive. I see you were on the tugs. I used to know Jim Nelson very well. I'm afraid it wasn't quite like an office job on the "Manc". I was second mate and I had to doall the steering in the canal. By Friday I was quite a zombie !
Tony


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## janathull

I was on the Carchester which I believe was the biggest ship to go up to Manchester.


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## bob2bob

Hi Tony
I knew Jimmy well sailed with him a few times as deckhand, when I was on the Quest he was on the Rover we worked as a pair till 24hr shift pattern started. Certainly knew his stuff, good bloke all round, I think his son was on the Clyde tugs. 

I bet you loved getting stuck behind a deep tank going to Stanlow,the MSC condition known as swollen ankles.
The Carchester was moored at Old Quay Lock on her first trip up the canal , the day I started (1/1/1968) there was a problem with the draft twenty six and a half feet, loads of fun in Runcorn bridge hole and coming round Weaver Bend. Johnny Law was her appropiated pilot, and could he shift treated ships as power boats. John


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## Tony Shaw

I don't know about getting stuck behind a big tanker John, it was the Manchester Liner container vessels which were the bug bear. If one entered Eastham ahead of us sometimes we never passed her until Latchford, depending, of course, on the pilot's mood !
As a young lad we tried to cadge a lift, with our bikes, to the next lock on any vessel available. I remember the nice skipper of the "Bison" giving us a lift to Irlam, as well as a Harker tanker and a Cooper's sand boat.
On a cheekier note, also as a lad, I was swinging the big weight on the end of the trip wire and the whole thing parted. The lockmaster, Mr McGuiness, chased me on his bike. Several years later, I was Lockmaster at Latchford Locks and he was the telephone operator. I never let on !!
Tony


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## Pat Kennedy

As lads we used to cross Eastham locks to the East bank of the canal and walk as far as Stanlow Island, and have a picnic. The East bank was positively alive with rabbits in those days, they would come as close as three or four foot away and cadge crusts of bread.
Regards, 
Pat


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## jmcg

janathull said:


> I was on the Carchester which I believe was the biggest ship to go up to Manchester.


Jan

Was Ronnie Safe the OM on Carchester. Sailed with Ronnie on Silvershore and Binsnes. The only OM that had a certificate to say he was not mad.

I got on really well with him -others didn't.

BW(Gleam)(Gleam)

J


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## bob2bob

Thats true of Liners Tony, anything that double slipped was a pain Shell tankers to B.O.B, Carchester just a steady 10-12hour plod especially if you had to go to a laybye or lock dolphins. Still I would go back tomorrow given the chance. 
Till I was 8yrs old we lived about 200 yards from the ship canal down the street and the Bridgewater at the top so play was centred round these. in the summer families used to spend the day down "ferry hut" kids paddling and swimming in what was basically an open sewer which was only flushed out by spring tides, still ignorance was bliss I suppose a lad from our street acuall y caught dysentry or diptheria I can`t remember which.

As you say Pat great spot for rabbits the battermen used to snare them. I can remember walking as far as Manistys mount one day and the skipper started blowing for us as we had been called out, 3 of us got back absolutely knackered after climbing over bracken and pipes rushing to get back, we had to go to the Ferry Hotel that night to get over it, even talked the landlord at the time Malcolm into a stay behind till 01.00.
John


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## Binnacle

janathull said:


> I was on the Carchester which I believe was the biggest ship to go up to Manchester.


Honest poverty forced me to sail on her in 74/75. She was what the pilots referred to as a "slipping job". There wasn't enough room in the locks for the ship and two tugs, so we had to let go the for'd one when we needed it most. Would be interested to know if she was indeed the largest ship to transit the canal ?. First went up the canal on the Polar Maid in 55 to discharge whale oil at Weist. I believe an American master referred to it as an uncovered sewer.


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## callpor

From the innumerable MSC transits I made on Esso tankers between 1972 and 1979 it was my understanding gleaned from our choice pilots and helmsmen that the Carchester was the largest vessel to transit up to Manchester. Invarably it would be a 0200 tide at Eastham to arrive Modewheel for 0900 but if the Carchester was ahead we would not make it until the afternoon? 
Incidentally, we would swing below Modewheel locks using the mole to spring ourselves around. I'm sure we had at least 6 foot of clearance each end - anyway, that's what it felt like from the Bridge.
If you look at my photos in the gallery you will find some with us passing one of the Liners in the canal. You could shake hands from bridge wing to bridge wing! 
Chris


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## kudu

Did'nt mind the MSC,even the smell.It was like comming home,especially if we were not working by,and could go home for a few days.I did a number of trips to Manchester 1965 to 1968,always to Brown and Polsons at Trafford Park.Stag line ships were regular visitors during the sixties,before they invested in larger vessels.There must have been times when it was not possible to transit the canal at night.I


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## kudu

Sorry about the previous message,I must have posted it by accident.I'l continue......I remember laying by at Runcorn one night ,don't know why but we could'nt transit the canal at night.I also remember the cook doing a runner at one of the locks,a trip to many perhaps.I don't think we signed on another cook,so whoever did the cooks job must have done well.A trip where food is not up to scratch is always remembered


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## j.d.robinson

f irst went up canal in late 50s, then occasionally till late 60s. started regularly in late 90s in arklow shipping ships to cerestar elevator ( known to locals as polsons) with grain from france, 22 hours discharge, then load scrap at irwell park or salt at runcorn. with a total crew of 6 this was quite a work up, and i agree with the arklow skipper who thought that the whole canal was prime real estate for land fill.

headland


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## ccurtis1

jmcg said:


> Jan
> 
> Was Ronnie Safe the OM on Carchester. Sailed with Ronnie on Silvershore and Binsnes. The only OM that had a certificate to say he was not mad.
> 
> I got on really well with him -others didn't.
> 
> BW(Gleam)(Gleam)
> 
> J


Ronnie was the OM when I was on the Carchester as C/E. I too got on really well with him. Weren't you the lucky lad, Carchester and Binsnes. What did you do wrong


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## jmcg

Thanks ccurtis1.

Binsnes was a memorable L______________________ONG trip with very many difficult moments for all departments - not least down below. She was GP crewed with only 2 qualified AB's and a bosun. The remainder of the GP crowd were ER chaps; they rarely got out of ER. We were proper short handed on deck and as you know they were complex and "heavy" on deck machinery. Ronnie was good to us though and he also refreshed his AB skills in times of woe. 

Sorry to stray from thread!

BW

J(Gleam)(Gleam)


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## eldersuk

I was delayed in joining a ship in Manchester in the mid 60s because the canal was closed. 
The reason given was that the canal had actually caught fire at Bob's Ferry. It seems that a ship had spilled gas oil into the water which floated down to the ferry where a discarded cigarette set fire to it. As far as I remember there was a report of fatality(s).

Does anyone know anything about this? 

Derek


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## bob2bob

I remember that well Derek, I think I posted it before, I think it was the "Tacoma", discharging at Cadishead and there was a spillage of either gas or oil.
It drifted down stream to below Bobs ferry. Men going on shift on the Partington sideof the canal were waiting to use the ferry asked the ferryman to cross, the details are a bit sketchy in my mind but the result was someone on the ferry lit a cigarette and ignited the gas killing several people on the ferry and the flash charred the bank for approx quarter of a mile, at the time Cadishead handled a lot of low flash cargo, hope that helps

John


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## Tony Shaw

The skipper on the "Tacoma" at the time of the incident was a really nice chap, especially seeing he always 'dropped' the lockgatemen five bob every timehe passed through the locks. I think Colin Broom was the other appropriated pilot n the "Carchester", and, John, I think the "Speedmaster Pilot's Trophy" went to Derek Clulow - he always put himself about 5 miles ahead of where he was when he was reporting his position to me at Latchford !!


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## bob2bob

I had forgotten Clulow as we always called him, your spot on there, a hell of a character as well, we were going down 9 dcok one day to pick a ship up he was with , he was on the wing of the bridgeas we dropped alongside he shouted down to us "hows that for a cloth eared elephant", he`d turned his pants pocket out and whipped his old man out.
Tony when I was on the Sceptre we were runnig light to Manchester with the Sabre, heading for the small lock at Latchfordwe were neck and neck at the railway bridge playing chicken, Lockmen were waving us to slow down, when the skippers of both tugs ran into the wheel houses (we were nearly swapping fender rubber). To say the other deckhand and me got a verbal was an under statement, I can still see Wally Garvey stood there in draws cellular with his skippers cap and me trying not to p##s myself laughing at the sight , to make it worse when we got settled in the lock we copped it again from the Lockmaster.

That Bobs Ferry business was terrible, we went through a day or so after and to see the banks scorched from the water line to the top of the bank and the distance it covered was a bit scarey.


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## Bob S

Changing the subject a bit, do the Mersey Ferries still do the occassional outing along the canal?

Regards

Bob


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## Pat Kennedy

Bob S said:


> Changing the subject a bit, do the Mersey Ferries still do the occassional outing along the canal?
> 
> Regards
> 
> Bob


Yes they do. Starting on April 20th and running until mid October they run every week. A great day out, I did one last year and enjoyed it immensely.
Details are at this link;

http://www.merseyferries.co.uk/Content/Cruises/ManchesterShipCanalCruises.aspx


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## Gareth Jones

I have in my possession a volume of 'The Graphic' Newspaper which covers the inauguration of the Manchester ship canal January 1894.
There are a few sketches of scenes, along the canal. I suppose photography may have been difficult to transpose into newsprint at that time.
I thought members might be interested to see these so I've scanned them and posted them in my gallery.


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## Bob S

Pat Kennedy said:


> Yes they do. Starting on April 20th and running until mid October they run every week. A great day out, I did one last year and enjoyed it immensely.
> Details are at this link;
> 
> http://www.merseyferries.co.uk/Content/Cruises/ManchesterShipCanalCruises.aspx


Wow, every week, I only thought they did a couple of times a year (Thumb). Hopefully be able to fit it in sometime soon.

Thanks Pat

Bob


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## PJG1412

I have recently purchased 2 x DVD's of the Manchester Ship Canel Part1 & 2, these are available from the website below. Each DVD cover has a photo of the Furness Withy ship Pacific Envoy. I sailed on this ship 1962/63, hence my interest in buying. They cover a period from 1955-64 some excellent shots of many ships going up and down the canel. The Envoy is filmed outbound and homeward. Also Pacific Unity/Northwest, Prince Line, Strict, Manchester Liners, Palm and many more. I have requested permission to copy some shots for this site,but had no reply. But worth buying.
Pete


http://www.cinerail.com/


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## Tony Shaw

I too remember the times when only daylight navigation was allowed in the Manchester Ship Canal. As a young lad I used to stand on the island bullnose at Latchford Locks and looking down the canal towards the swing bridges there could be as many as four tug jobs inward bound. They were the days !. When I first married we bought a house at Stockton Heath, Warrington, right on the banks of the canal. Sitting up in bed we were parallel to the bridges of the larger ships and , on occasions, I would be able to give a wave to Ian Colquoun on a Manchester Liner and Brian Pownall on a Clan Liner. In those days all contact between tugs and vessel was by ship's whistle and, even though sounding off during the dark hours was frowned upon, certain of the pilots I knew would give a blast. Of course, I kept my neighbours in the dark !


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## bob2bob

Tony the place for being kept awake, as you will remember was Dukesfield area of Runcorn it is right on the bridge hole if a ship cocked it up it was ships whistle to the stern tug, mouth whistle to the head tug, and the tugs replying on their own whistles especially old liberty ships loadedto 26ft, with no waft to drive itself, it could take ages. A lot of tugmen lived in this area so even of duty they still got bow and quarter orders. John


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## Bart150

This may seem a simple question but I can't find the answer anywhere:
Which was the largest ship ever to go all the way up the Canal, and when did it happen?
Anybody know, or know where the answer may be found?
Thanks
Bart


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## Flixtonian

Bart, as far as I know it was the M.V. Carchester, which used to run up to Brown and Polson's in Trafford Park from the late 1960's to the 1980's.
Photo here: http://www.shipsnostalgia.com/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/284546/title/carchester/cat/510

Regards, Steve F.


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## TOM ALEXANDER

Flixtonian said:


> Bart, as far as I know it was the M.V. Carchester, which used to run up to Brown and Polson's in Trafford Park from the late 1960's to the 1980's.
> Photo here: http://www.shipsnostalgia.com/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/284546/title/carchester/cat/510
> 
> Regards, Steve F.


I joined the s.s. Pacific Northwest as a deck apprentice in Salford one dark and rainy night in 1956. I believe she was built to just transit the canal. In some lock chambers, we had about 3" clearance each side so used 4 x 4 lumber on bridles to span the frames of the ship, all along each side. As we went into the chamber the 4" wood would be compressed to 3". Some of these fenders would break apart, some smoke from the heat generated by the friction, and some even catch fire. Needless to say, no steering needed, just dead slow ahead. Then the rush was on to re-rig serviceable fenders for the next lock. Was down and up the canal for the next 2 years or so. Only one overnight at Runcorn, close to the transporter bridge. Hot nightclub there, but can't remember the name. Never did see Mr. & Mrs. Ramsbotham with Albert their son trying to negotiate on the ferry fare of tuppence per person per trip, or part of per trip. I still remember watching the canal in Salford on a hot summer's day glubbing big fould smelling bubbles from the deep.


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## JET

Nobody has mentioned, as yet, the Bowater ships that were frequent users of the Canal.

John.


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## Bart150

Thanks, everyone. Over on another thread I've just found the statement that ARMAGH and her sister ship NORTHUMBERLAND shared the honour of being the largest vessels ever to transit the entire length of the Manchester Ship Canal.
http://www.shipsnostalgia.com/showthread.php?t=13136
Elsewhere I've found that NORTHUMBERLAND's figures were: length 550' overall, 63' beam, 11,559 tons weight.
I'm wondering how this compares with the ships mentioned above: CARCHESTER, PACIFIC NORTHWEST and the Bowater ships.
Bart


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## tom roberts

Sailed up and down the M.S.C. a few times on the Ardetta and the Dotrell unforunatley it was in summer months .oh my God I never got over the stink ,one time the whole canal lit up it was like watching methylated spirits being ignited,the only good thing was at Salford docks the famous Clewes Hotel one end and the beautifull River Mersey at the other,the last time I ventured onto it was on my narrow boat Chemainus named after a realy lovely port on Vancouver Island,on another ship I was on the Novelist we loaded drums of waste from Octel that we dumped over the side around Las Palmas later I worked at Octel as a rigger a truly awful place toxic as hell never saw a rat or even a seagull that was daft enough to go there.


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## Pat Kennedy

Tom, 
I was tied up at Octel once on a Blue Funnel ship, the Theseus, discharging lead ingots. We used to walk through the plant to go for a pint in Ellesmere Port every evening and what an eerie, strange place that was. They used to take your tobacco and matches off you before you could go ashore, or re-enter the plant, and warn you to stay well clear of certain reactors which contained a substance which could apparently kill an elephant at 200 yards.
A friend of mine worked in there and every few months was given a few weeks sick leave to get the lead out of his system, his gums used to turn blue!
He died in his fifties of lead poisoning.
Regards, 
Pat


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## Tony Shaw

As I've mentioned earlier in this thread, the smell of the canal in mid-summer was like Chanel No.5 to me, but imagine what it was like if you were on the sludge vessel "Mancunium" loading sewage (industrial waste !!) at Davyhulme. Two aromas for the price of one. Did this for a year. Classic !!


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## TOM ALEXANDER

Bart150 said:


> Thanks, everyone. Over on another thread I've just found the statement that ARMAGH and her sister ship NORTHUMBERLAND shared the honour of being the largest vessels ever to transit the entire length of the Manchester Ship Canal.
> http://www.shipsnostalgia.com/showthread.php?t=13136
> Elsewhere I've found that NORTHUMBERLAND's figures were: length 550' overall, 63' beam, 11,559 tons weight.
> I'm wondering how this compares with the ships mentioned above: CARCHESTER, PACIFIC NORTHWEST and the Bowater ships.
> Bart


Can't tell you the numbers on the beam of the Pacific Northwest, but memory recalls 60+ feet. She was only about 515 - 520 feet in length though, so it seems the "Northumberland" fits the bill for biggest. The "Pacific No-rest" was just a little under 10,000 GRT if I remember rightly. Needless to say we were in a very light loading condition for both up and down the canal. She drew somewhere around 30 ft when down to he marks. (When leaving Glasgow with 120,000 cases of whisky aboard plus a whole bunch of other stuff like Rolls Royces, steel plate, nails, cotton waste, etc.)


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## Jim S

Lloyd's Register of Ships has Pacific Northwest as :-
Length Overall 501 ft - 2 in. Breadth Extreme (beam) 63 ft - 5 in.
The same dimensions are given for Pacific Reliance, Envoy and Stronghold.
The same dimension for beam at 63 ft - 5 inches is also listed for Pacific Fortune and Unity with a slightly less Length Overall of 498 ft - 6 in.
Ted Gray's book "A Hundred Years of the Manchester Ship Canal" gives the width of the canal locks as 65 feet and Furness Withy's Pacific Class were the widest vessels to negotiate the locks beyond the 80 feet Eastham Lock.
In 1954 Ropner's Swiftpool at 63 ft - 7 in. became the widest to transit the canal until surpassed in 1966 by Strick's Serbistan at 63 ft - 10 in. - I guess all give or take a coat of paint or three !


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## waldziu

A lot of folk mention the smell.

Early 70's HMS Dundas or was it the Hardy? (Having a Craft Moment) We sailed from Portland with a Sargent Rowe and 6 Manchester Police cadets for a over night passage to you guessed Manchester. We had commenced our transist some time during the night. I awoke to Call the Hands and after morning ablutions stated to make my way to the galley to collect my breakfast. This required going to the upper deck where Sargent Rowe was stood. "Sorry about the smell boys, not the best approach to Manchester." said he.

"Can't smell a thing Sarge" said I, "I've just come out of the stokers mess mayhap I should be apologising to you"

Berthed in Trafford Wharf for four days and my introduction to Yattes Wine Lodge. 

I nearly forgot we had to take the top part of the mast off prior to leaving Portland so that we could get under the Barton Bridge. Well she was a light weight single engined war canoe.


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## Bart150

Thanks, everyone.
Bart


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## tom roberts

Any one remember the big shoreside crane that used to take of the top of the funnel that was just up the canal from Eastham locks it was there for years when was it dismanteld?


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## Tony Shaw

Yes, Tom, I remember it well, but not with affection !! I was down aft as second mate on the Harrison vessel "Dalesman", preparing to leave the crane berth after having used the crane, The after tug was pulling the stern off the quay, but, unfortunately, we still had a stern rope made fast. As quick aswe were trying to slack it off, it was getting tight again. The result was a parted stern rope and a broken femur for me landing me in hospital for 4 months and off work for eleven months. This happened on Dec.22nd !!!


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## Pat Kennedy

tom roberts said:


> Any one remember the big shoreside crane that used to take of the top of the funnel that was just up the canal from Eastham locks it was there for years when was it dismanteld?


There were thousands of names painted on that crane berth Tom, not just on the quay wall, but all over the buildings and the crasne and the rear wall. I added mine when on the Tactician. 
regards, 
Pat


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## alan ward

The ferry accident was at Thelwall,I lived nearby at Grappenhall,locally it was known as the Penny Ferry.The explosion killed the ferryman amongst others,it often smelt odd down there,mind you it was also a notorious courting spot so we must have been determined to use it!


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## alan ward

This site revives so many forotten memories.Durin one of those romanticall related spells ashore I was working at Fords in Halewood and my lift from home used to pick me up at Latchford.It was dark,cold and miserable as I stood waiting,then like a vision a Manchester Liner cruised by,her saloon brightly lit and being laid up by white jacketed stewards.It looked so warm and cosy I thought of all the lads getting ready to go home on leave and I said to myself`I`m going back`and I did.


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## liverbob

sailed out of the man canal twice at nite time.once on the
pacific liberty nov 53. and the other on the javenese prince
jan 60.the mersey ferries still do trips up the canal/when
i went back to liverpool to see our families .i done a trip
up the canal.it was great.


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## John Arton

In the 80's my sister lived on the Hill in Frodsham and when I used to visit her I would often wonder what it would be like to go up the MSC. Forward to the 90's and the MSC becomes almost my 2nd home, trotting up as far as Cadishead with Stolt's.
I found the whole canal an experience not to be forgotten and every trip found out more about what a fantastic piece of engineering it was. I had Latvian Officers under me and a number of them too became quite interested in the Canal and its history.
Sure, it was a long drag from the Bar all the way up to Cadishead, especially as the Liverpool pilots seemed to insist on boarding far too early at the Bar so you would have to creep up the Mersey and dodge around off the Bar at Eastham channel, etc. But the MSC pilots with their knowledge and friendliness made up for it and the passage from Eastham onwards was invariably a pleasure.
rgds
Capt. John Arton (ret'd)


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## Blackal

I occasionally travelled up the ship canal on my summer holidays with my father on the Denholms ore carriers.

We berthed at Irlam, if I remember correctly - and at the age of 8, had never seen rows and rows of red brick terraced houses before. The biggest surprise was getting fish and chips locally........

fish with skin attached! Mushy peas! - couldn't understand that one, especially... 

I remember kids used to drop bricks down the funnel though - from the bridges 

Al


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## Jocko

Many moons ago I paid off in Liverpool. Had a good bevy with my old shipmates in a bar in Lime St station. I then caught a train for Matlock Bath to visit my brother. With all the beer in me I fell asleep on the train. Some time later I woke up and there was a ship in the the middle of a field behind a hedge!!!!!!!! I thought I had the D.T.s.


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## robertpmc

Hi, 
The skipper of the Tacoma then was John Fairclough of Liverpool and his son - also John Fairclough, was mate. I'd left about 6 months or so before the explosion and tragic fatalities. Both John's were nice fellas and had been good old hands to me (13yr old deck boy) but they argued a lot (as families do!) and would put me between them. I'd be wearing out the haliard with hoisting the house flag up and down like a *****s drawers; "Who told you to hoist that flag?" says the Mate, "The skipper" says I. "Take it down" says the Mate. "Why's that flag not up?" says the skipper..and on..and on.....

Robert Setz


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## Barrie Youde

#50

Hi, John,

Getting under way early for Eastham was as much an irritation for Liverpool pilots as for anybody else. The need arose from the limited time available for the docking of largish ships at Eastham (i.e. from high-water until the ebb had fallen to a point where there was insufficient UKC in Eastham Channel). Obviously this was variable on draught, but it was rarely more than about two and a half hours. If several draught-restricted ships were due to dock within that period it was essential not only that the deepest went first, but also that the lesser-draughted ships, in strict turn, were queuing ship-to-ship for the lock, stemming the ebb-tide as closely as possible, in order that no time was then lost.

At less busy times, of course, the problem was less acute; but nobody wasted time in Eastham Channel by choice. And nobody would dare delay the man behind him. Timing was the key to the whole thing.

Hope this might explain it a bit.


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## callpor

Barry, 

Having just finished and enjoyed reading Nick Robin's recent book "The Ships that came to Manchester", I needed to pick up on a few points, so not only searched the Forum for this thread, but also looked back in my own records. Between 1972 and 1979 I made 35 return transits of the canal, generally all the way to Esso at ModeWheel, as 2/0 up to Master, so this book brought back a lot of memories. 

Your post #54 brought back one of these in sharp focus: It was on the Esso Purfleet fully loaded inward and fourth ship on the tide inside the bar on the Eastham Channel with our UKC disappearing at an alarming rate. The Mersey Pilot (If I recall correctly it was John Tebay) and I, as Master, got so concerned when it reduced to 1 foot that we steamed the vessel into QEII lock and waited for the next tide! Caused quite a kurfuffle afterwards and a change in the regulations about vessels crossing Eastham bar into the Channel.

Nick Robin's book quotes the Strick vessel "Serbistan" as the largest to transit the whole canal on a regular basis, she had a beam of 63' 10". I had been led to believe it was the "Carchester", which had the largest DWT at 14625. But apparently these were all beaten by the 'Northumberland' at LOA 550' Beam 63' although her DWT was only 11559. Whichever was really the largest, it was always a grind if one of these monsters was on the tide for Manchester as we would then be stuck with a 12 hour transit to ModeWheel.

Only disappointing thing about Nick Robin's book was his failure to include a chapter about the Pilots and Helmsmen. They could have added a lot more colour to what really is a chronology of facts, clearly elicited from company and MSC records. 

Happy days..... Chris


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## Barrie Youde

Hi, Chris,

You were lucky that QEII Lock was open!!

Sadly, John Tebay is no longer with us. He crossed the Bar in 2002.

Best,

BY


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## tom roberts

Pat Kennedy said:


> Yes they do. Starting on April 20th and running until mid October they run every week. A great day out, I did one last year and enjoyed it immensely.
> Details are at this link;
> 
> http://www.merseyferries.co.uk/Content/Cruises/ManchesterShipCanalCruises.aspx


Pat on the ferries did you see the report in the echo that they are considering closing either the Woodside or Seacome it's beyond all comprehension that the Birkenhead ferries leave its home it's madness.Returning to the canal topic besides the British and Contintnental boats I sailed on the biggest ship l went up the canal was the Hyria paid of her in Stanlow after7months.


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## Pat Kennedy

tom roberts said:


> Pat on the ferries did you see the report in the echo that they are considering closing either the Woodside or Seacome it's beyond all comprehension that the Birkenhead ferries leave its home it's madness.
> 
> Its the bean counters at work again Tom, and no doubt they will get their way eventually.
> If one of the ferry terminals is to close, then logically it should be Woodside, because there is the adjacent Merseyrail station at Hamillton Square, and a couple of bus routes through the nearby tunnel, to take commuters to and from Liverpool.
> Seacombe only has the ferry.
> Possibly Peel Ports could be persuaded to take an interest in the ferry service as part of their vaulting ambition for the arera.
> regards,
> Pat(Thumb)


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## sidsal

In the immediate post war era we used to got to Stanlow to discharge (T2 tankers mainly)> we would normally have called at Avonmouth ( from Aruba usually) to lighten the draft. We used to play tricks in order to satay overnight as no tankers traversed at night. Typical was when pilot cme aboard and master urged us to hurry up and finish the disharge. By craftily cracking open a few vales we would send the oil round and round the ship with little going ashore. A compliant shore chap would loose the disc showing rate of discharge.
In the 60's or 70's I had gone to Trafford wharf to view som timber baulks from some silos which were being demolished and saw a Clan boat depart.. I believe I saw the very last ship depart Manchester docks.
Years ago a little vessel started 2 day cruises up the Weaver from Runcorn and it amused me. I pictured being asked if we were going on a cruise this year and replying in the affirmative. On being asked we were going from Southampton I would say - No- Runcorn. And on being asked if we would call at some exotic ports I would say - Yes - Northwich !!
In ww2 I sailed with a chap who knew loads of sea ditties and one long one was about a young lad going to sea on his first voyage with his mother dead worried. It turned out he was going up the ship canal to Manchester. I can only remember snippets - 
"And we set sail from Walton Jail
Along the ship canal
When we got up to Runcorn Bridge
The rain began to snow
The wind blew out the candle light
And the engines wouldn't go
I have tried unsuccessfully to get the whole words as it was a corker


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## Barrie Youde

#59

There is another brilliant ditty somewhere about putting out to sea from Manchester, the words of which sadly escape me - The Manchester Mariner/Navigator or something similar, largely invoking the perils of the sea between Mode Wheel and Latchford, as Stanley Holloway might have expressed them. Another corker!


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## Basil

Pat Kennedy said:


> Its the bean counters at work again Tom, and no doubt they will get their way eventually.


I wasn't in the MN long enough to grow old and rail at beancounters in the Merch but we certainly did in civil aviation.
The reality is that if the £ numbers don't add up you're out of business so the beancounters do have a point.
I'm just in from pub where I was chatting to an Easy Jet pilot and we were discussing the business models of Ryan Air and Easy Jet. It's a dog eat dog jungle BUT, esp in this internet world of rapid communication, if you piss off your customers enough you are history. At the moment my money would be on Easy but their pilots work hard.
If you have a job which buys you a house and, more or less, keeps 'er happy then you are well ahead of the game.
Bit under the affluence of incohol so usual caveats apply (POP)


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## Basil

Oh, yes this is about the MSC.
I returned up the canal from my first trip to sea on the MV British Monarch and paid off at the age of 19 on 26MAR1962.
I still recollect trying to start a steam pump to top up some random salt water tank and it appeared that the discharge valve had been closed by someone more experienced than I. I inferred this from the black leakage from the piston rod seal which looked like the urine of the Devil but was, in fact, MSC water.

We docked at Spillers Wharf to discharge grain.

Many years later, in a different life, I stayed at The Copthorne Hotel at Salford Quays close to, but on the other side of the canal from, my first visit.
The lady who ran the local filling station still had a pickaxe handle behind the counter.


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## spongebob

Basil, you mention your ship MV British Monarch. Was she the ship that the Second Mate fell overboard after the midnight to four am watch and was recovered from the sea more than twelve hours later?
I started a thread a few years back referring to such an incident on a Port line ship. But I am sure I was corrected to the above vessel being involved.
Do you know this story?

Bob


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## Basil

spongebob,

That's correct, the 2nd Mate, who had, I think, gone aft to check the log, fell over the stern.
http://www.mrmsw.co.uk/story%202%20story%20of%20a%202nd%20mates%20hell.html

That happened on 9th June 1957 whilst another British Monarch claim to fame was taking place:
Victoria Drummond was, from April to November 1957, her 2/E.
In addition to being the first woman marine engineer in Britain and first woman member of The Institute of Marine Engineers she was also a god-daughter of Queen Victoria.
http://www.shipsnostalgia.com/showthread.php?t=4774&highlight=Drummond
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victoria_Drummond


Bit of further info:
http://www.shipsnostalgia.com/archive/index.php?t-8906.html


> Mick Spear
> 26th October 2011, 11:52
> Coming in a little late on this thread but have just read the posts. I was on British Monarch when this happened and was on 12-4 watch with Doug as apprentice. He went aft to clean the contacts on the log transmitter which was mounted on a bracket attached to the bulwark. Ship took a roll as he was leaning out and over he went. He held on to the log line for a while and shouted but the only people awake were the 4-8 watchkeepers and they were too far away to hear.
> He was missed at breakfast and when he failed to show on the bridge for morning sights, ship was searched and then turned around about 0900 and steamed back along our track. Against all the odds he was spotted about half a mile abeam about 1300 - kicking and splashing to attract attention in the chop. We nearly missed him - he thought we had until he heard our whistle sound. When our boat picked him up, he was still wearing his shoes and climbed up the pilot ladder to the deck without assistance. Apart from being badly sunburned and stung by portuguese man o war's, he was in great shape after nine hours in the water. Doug got a bit religious after that - hardly surprising. He was a good shipmate and a talented guy. Always had a project going - built a dinghy out of scrap dunnage once.
> The old man was Capt Coutts and he was awarded a citation and a sextant for his success in estimating wind and current to bring us back to the position. Even he admitted though that there was a whole lot of luck involved.
> I finished up my time as 3rd. Mate on British Monarch before going on to take my 2nd.Mates ticket and moving on to Denholm's. Lost touch with most of the crew of course including Doug, so would be interested to hear if any of them are still around.
> 
> Fascinating stuff! Great read. Imagine what was going through Doug's mind whilst he was in the water. I'm impressed with the navigational skills that enabled his safe rescue.
> mick S


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## Laurie Ridyard

Tony Shaw said:


> I've been wanting to put a thread out re-the Manchester Ship Canal for some time now but never got round to it. As a young lad I was never away from Latchford Locks, living in Warrington, and when I eventually went to sea I went up and down the canal several times. Leaving deep sea ,I spent a year on the Manchester sludge boat "Mancunium", after which I became lockmaster at Latchford Locks. After 8 years I returned to seagoing and went up and down it yet again on Harrison Line vessels. Unlike the majority of people I thought gthe canal was one of wonders of the world. (I even liked the smell of the water in summer !!!) It would be nice to hear of from those who have experienced the pleasures (or displeasures) of transitting 'the big ditch'


Hi! Tony !
Were you on the sludge boats with Roy Lomas ? He's an ol' mate of mine. We were in the same Scout Troop together [ 2nd/218th Manchester St. Nicholas Burnage.] He tried to join Hain SS Co. a long with our mate Frank Lovegrove. He ventually joined Bank Line.

I am still in contact with him....


Laurie Ridyard.


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## Laurie Ridyard

Ha! 

I went up and down the Canal several times in 1962, whilst 3/0 of M.V. 
" Trevean " At this time the Canal was supposed to be getting healthy, as firms were being stopped from dumping waste water in it.

We had a donkey greaser who used to put a fishing line over the side at practically every port we went to. I don't think I ever saw him catch anything.

We persuaded him that the Canal had so improved that he could fish in it, so he put his line over. I bought a frazen trout and stuck it on the end of his line !!!

I do understand the story made the MEN.


Laurie Ridyard.


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## spongebob

Basil, Mick, it all comes back to me now.
Go to thread Ship Research/ 12/2007/ my thread Port line drama where I mistakenly posted this event under the incorrect ships name. 
It is sad to hear that the second mate passed away relative ly early , especially after surviving the unsurviveable in most men's terms.

Bob


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## Tonykshaw

Sorry Laurie, I never knew Roy Lomas, was on the "Mancunium" around 1965, before becoming Lockmaster at Latchford Locks a year later. After several years I returned to the Merch., serving with Harrison's, Esso and RMC.


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## CAPT.BOB

I've just returned to Ship's nostalgia after a couple of years absence,so bear with me.
Back in the 60's while working for Furness Withy/Prince Line I made many canal transits on Pacific boats before going up to top off the holds with Whiskey in Glasgow,or returning from the Medi in the Prince Line ships. I joined the Mystic there in 1961,before going to Australia via Glasgow,and in 1960 I spent Christmas transiting on the Pacific Northwest.We sailed from Manchester at I think 1630 on Christmas Eve.Tied up for the night while the Pilot went home and completed the transit on Christmas afternoon.HAPPY DAYS!!


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## para handy clyde

I sailed up the Canal on M.V Oremina(houlders)to berth at Irlam1967.My first Ship.I sailed up again on M.V.Saint Aiden(gardeners) as far as Salford.
It is great having sites like Ships Nostalgia as it brings back some great memories.When ever I am asked if I would have changed my decision to go to sea If I could turn back time,my answer would be no.I loved my time in the Merchant Navy(Good and sometimes Bad)I would do it all again given the Chance.


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## kudu

I sailed up the canal a number of times during the mid1960's,with Stag Line.It was always Brown and Polsons warfe,with wheat from the USA or Canada.There was always the smell of corn oil and glycerine at Brown and Polsons corn processing plant,once smelt,never forgotten.Apart from the odour of the canal itself,I remember the ore ships at Irlam,and tying up at Runcorn for the night(can't remember why),and going for a couple of pints.I remember the Trafford hotel,a good walk through Trafford park,from the warfe,and then a taxi into the city centre,and a few pints in the Long Bar,and an Indian curry in the Kuhinor.We often moaned about our life in the MN,but the memories are good,and remain strong,even after fifty years.


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## George A

tom roberts said:


> Sailed up and down the M.S.C. a few times on the Ardetta and the Dotrell unforunatley it was in summer months .oh my God I never got over the stink ,one time the whole canal lit up it was like watching methylated spirits being ignited,the only good thing was at Salford docks the famous Clewes Hotel one end and the beautifull River Mersey at the other,the last time I ventured onto it was on my narrow boat Chemainus named after a realy lovely port on Vancouver Island,on another ship I was on the Novelist we loaded drums of waste from Octel that we dumped over the side around Las Palmas later I worked at Octel as a rigger a truly awful place toxic as hell never saw a rat or even a seagull that was daft enough to go there.


Did you sail on the Ardetta of British & COntinental, Tom?


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## Tonykshaw

I sailed up the canal on the "Novelist" Tom and on almost every other Harrison Line vessel, mostly whilst with 'Dad's Army'. Sorry, but I loved that smell, but I was brought up on it &#55357;&#56832;&#55357;&#56832;&#55357;&#56832;


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## Waterways

Above Runcorn the MSC is rarely used. From Eastham to Runcorn it is well used, being a linear dock. Peel Ports, the owners, are trying to promote the canal with not much success. They propose Port Warrington and Port Salford but nothing is happening. Tesco take wine up the canal from Seaforth to the wine bottling plant and a few others as well use the canal for other cargoes. But that is 30 miles of deep water canal from Runcorn to near Manchester with locks that need maintaining and manning. I believe the section from Eastham to Runcorn pay for the rest of the canal. 

I read a suggestion for HS3, the Liverpool to Hull high-speed rail line, to fill in the canal, or just drain it and use it for the high-speed railway's trackbed. TfN have recommended a new line into Liverpool to alleviate the rail for freight for the new Superport. The MSC is a straight direct route between the two cities not requiring a landtake and no inconvenience to anybody. No inquires, court cases, etc. Sounds sensible to me. The likes of Tesco can have a railhead built to receive the bulk wine. It will be a nostalgia killer but highly practical. The Runcorn to Manchester section's days are near over. Which prompts the question of why it was ever built in the first place.


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## PeterMoore

Loaded 2x 61t heavy lifts at Irlam on Saturday - see photo.
Discharged in Liverpool on Sunday to connect with a main-line ship to Korea.


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## Jon Vincent

Boy how times change, retired here on the White River in Northern Arkansas, a beautiful blue ribbon trout river, you lose touch, but today looking at the Daily Mail on line there was this picture of people jumping off a bridge and swimming in the Manchester Ship canal. In the mid and early sixties as a cadet on Prince Line three hatchers we were told that you would be rushed to hospital and have your stomach pumped if fell into it, our favorite past time in the locks was counting the Salford Salmon, you got extra points if there no knot tied in them, happy days.


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## Duncan112

Can't remember where I stole this from (Probably here!!):

Captins Log - Brigantine “Phylis Gizzard”, out bound for Salford.

Seventy days out not a hint of a breeze, the bosun reports we are down to a single tin of sea biscuits and a fathom of hard tack, luckily still plenty of rum, but the water situation means we cannot dilute it and have to cut it into cubes and let the men suck their daily tot, this is a grave chore for men have not a cupful of spit betwixt them.

The man in the topgallants reported hearing breakers, could this be the dreaded reefs of Runcorn? Many a poor sailor man had been sent to fiddlers green on those evil spires, or worse, been cast ashore and devoured alive by the Cloggies.
A week since my last log entry, had to hang able seaman Jim Gonad, the sailmaker caught him drinking the last of my ink, nobody had the energy to administer a flogging but discipline must be maintained lest we turn into a rabble and begin to act like French sailors.

Liverpool Bay still fogbound, we feel our way forward using the lead, we must hit the Runcord entrance soon or we are doomed. The Mate Mr Rivet reports the Galley boy in a bad way , "He be losing flesh fast Capin" he said, this is bad news indeed, as we had been feeding young Jim Scuttle extra rations, for as the old sea saying goes, "a lb on the galley boy is a week in the lifeboat"

At last praise be, we are thru the Runcorn entrance and into the Canal, two men died horrible deaths by drinking the canal water in the thirst madness, at least this means there will be stew for tea tonight.

Seventeen day passage to Letchford, howls of the natives can be heard thru the fog, the men are very afraid, had the bosun issue musket and Cutlass, we keep a watch from the ratlines.

Day eighteen, no crew died in the night so it is back to hard tack and biscuit for myself and the crew, the mate says we could take one of young Scuttles kidneys as he is extremis and would probably not miss it, but no, must not give in to temptation , we must set a example.

Day 30, old Enoch Scrote sighted a whale spouting off the weather bow, this means that Lechford cannot be too far ahead, we pray for a breeze and a relief from the stifling heat, the natives were restless again last night, taunting us from the banks, their women folk lifting their dress's in lewd invitation, Harry Bollard and Jack Truss overcome with lust and thirst dove overboard, a shark got one before he made the shore, the other’s screams kept us awake well into the night.

Day fourty, my birthday today, fourty years man and boy at sea, at last my own command it looks like the Brigantine Phylis Gizzard may be my last. Cookie made a effort, he had the crew heave the anchor onto the focsul head, chipped the rust off, and made a pan of soup with it, our spirits were lifted for a while.
Praise the lord we have forced the straights of Irlham and are over halfway now, the heat grows worse as we penetrate the interior.

Had to punish four of the men yesterday, they had been hoarding their rum cubes. I will not allow drunkenness on the Phylis Gizzard, the heat is so great that the ropes are drying out, two of them snapped before the miscreants had finished dancing, had to order the bosun do the honours with a belaying pin.

Day fifty, two more crew to punishment, poor Enoch they had taken the lads right leg, this is ironic for I had issued orders that all men turn over their left shoes to cookie for stew.
The crew hop about the vessel now, as it is impossible to place a bare foot on the red hot decks. Old Dan the bucket maker is having a hard time, he had only one left leg at the start of the voyage, he shrieks in pain with every footstep.

Day sixty, Old Enoch croaked something incomprehensible in the tops, pointed a scrawny hand to the east, and plunged dead into the black swirling waters. But there thru the mists we sighted the black cliffs of Salford.

The men are in high spirits I have warned them of the ladies of Salford and the black pox, but alas in vain.

Day 75, I pay off the ships company, forty three men set sail from Birkenhead before the mast of the Phylis Gizzard, 17 remained on payoff day, thus is the life of a sailor, and those that dare the waters of the Manchester Ship Canal.


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## Farmer John

A Sad, sad tale, that, nevertheless, brought the occasional grimace to my visage.


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## Barrie Youde

#77 


Most stirring stuff!

May God bless the Manchester Mariner, or, as the Rev Canon Bob Evans once observed:-

... And Manchester Liners, from Montreal,
Coming home with bugger all!

There is a splendid painting in the Gallery to that effect, by Colin Jones.

The ship (Manchester Merchant, I think, of late 1950s) is seen in Crosby Channel, inward bound and flying a Q flag, wholly in ballast!


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## BobClay

I once passed through Runcorn on an old BR train, 
Tis a strange looking place, I would say in the main.
But I felt comfort from the sound of the clackety clack
As I moved from the darkness on the railway track.

I'm told there are monsters that roam in that place,
Things you'd not choose to meet face to face.
A mixture of Scouse, and Cheshire, perhaps even Wales, 
Dark things therein, not just old wives tales.

So hear me you travellers if you venture that way,
You'll encounter things that could spoil your whole day.
It's place filled with madness, chaos, disorder,
Tolkien went there once, and named it _Mordor._ :sweat:


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## Farmer John

The Runcorn Ferry By Marriott Edgar

On the banks of the Mersey, o'er on Cheshire side, 
Lies Runcorn that's best known to fame 
By Transporter Bridge as takes folks over t'stream, 
Or else brings them back across same. 

In days afore Transporter Bridge were put up, 
A ferryboat lay in the slip, 
And old Ted the boatman would row folks across 
At per tuppence per person per trip. 

Now Runcorn lay over on one side of stream, 
And Widnes on t'other side stood, 
And, as nobody wanted to go either place, 
Well, the trade wasn't any too good.

One evening, to Ted's superlative surprise, 
Three customers came into view: 
A Mr and Mrs Ramsbottom it were,
And Albert, their little son, too. 

'How much for the three?' Mr Ramsbottom asked,
As his hand to his pocket did dip.
Ted said: 'Same for three as it would be for one, 
Per tuppence per person per trip.'

'You're not charging tuppence for that little lad?' 
Said Mother, her eyes flashing wild. 
'Per tuppence per person per trip', answered Ted, 
'Per woman, per man, or per child'.

'Fivepence for three, that's the most that I'll pay', 
Said Father, 'Don't waste time in talk'. 
'Per tuppence per person per trip', answered Ted, 
'And them, as can't pay, 'as to walk!' 

'We can walk, an' all', said Father. 'Come Mother,
It's none so deep, weather's quite mild'. 
So into the water the three of them stepped: 
The father, the mother, the child. 

The further they paddled, the deeper it got, 
But they wouldn't give in, once begun.
In the spirit that's made Lancashire what she is,
They'd sooner be drownded than done.

Very soon, the old people were up to their necks,
And the little lad clean out of sight. 
Said Father: 'Where's Albert?' And Mother replied:
'I've got hold of his hand, he's all right!'

Well, just at that moment, Pa got an idea 
And, floundering back to old Ted, He said:
'We've walked half-way. Come, tak' us the rest 
For half-price -- that's a penny a head.' 

But Ted wasn't standing for none of that there,
And, making an obstinate lip, 
'Per tuppence per person per trip', Ted replied, 
'Per trip, or per part of per trip'. 

'All right, then', said Father, 'let me tak' the boat, 
And I'll pick up the others half-way. 
I'll row them across, and I'll bring the boat back, 
And thruppence in t'bargain I'll pay'. 

T'were money for nothing. Ted answered: 'Right-ho', 
And Father got hold of the sculls. 
With the sharp end of boat towards middle of stream,
He were there in a couple of pulls. 

He got Mother out -- it were rather a job, 
With the water, she weighed half a ton -- 
Then, pushing the oar down the side of the boat, 
Started fishing around for his son.

When poor little Albert came up to the top, 
His collars were soggy and limp. 
And, with holding his breath at the bottom so long, 
His face were as red as a shrimp. 

Pa took them across, and he brought the boat back, 
And he said to old Ted on the slip:
'Wilt' row me across by me'sen?' Ted said:
'Aye, at per tuppence per person per trip'. 

When they got t'other side, Father laughed fit to bust.
He'd got best of bargain, you see. 
He'd worked it all out, and he'd got his own way,
And he'd paid nobbut fivepence for three!


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## Ron Stringer

As recorded by Stanley Holloway.


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