# QE2 Sold To Dubai World To Begin A New Life At The Palm



## James_C

une 18, 2007

Cunard Line today announced the sale of QE2 to Dubai World, in a US$100 million deal which will turn the iconic liner into a first-class tourism destination at The Palm Jumeirah in Dubai.

QE2 will be delivered to Dubai World in November 2008, where she will cease her role as an ocean-going passenger vessel and be refurbished and adapted for her new home. From 2009, the vessel will be berthed at a specially-constructed pier to create a luxury floating hotel, retail and entertainment destination at The Palm Jumeirah, the world's largest man-made island.

The ship, which was launched by Her Majesty The Queen in September 1967, 40 years ago this year, is the longest-serving ship in Cunard's 168-year history, and was their longest-serving flagship. Since she came into service in 1969, she has undertaken 25 world cruises, has crossed the Atlantic more than 800 times and has carried more than 2.5 million passengers.

QE2 has been purchased by Istithmar, the investment arm of Dubai World, a wholly owned company of the Government of Dubai. Nakheel, developer of The Palm Jumeirah, is also a Dubai World company.

Carol Marlow, president and managing director of Cunard, said:

"We are delighted that when her legendary career as an ocean liner ends there will continue to be a permanent home for her that will enable future generations to continue to experience fully both the ship and her history."

Sultan Ahmed bin Sulayem, chairman of Dubai World, said:

"QE2 is without a doubt one of the wonders of the maritime world, and is easily the most famous serving liner in the world today. I am delighted we will be able to create a home for her on the newest wonder of the world, The Palm Jumeirah."

"QE2 at The Palm Jumeirah will become one of the must-see experiences of Dubai and of the Middle East. We are investing in creating a truly global tourism destination."

"Dubai is a maritime nation and we understand the rich heritage of QE2. She is coming to a home where she will be cherished."

Istithmar said its refurbishment programme will aim to recreate QE2's original interior décor and fittings. QE2 at The Palm Jumeirah will also include a museum celebrating the rich history of the ship.


http://www.cunard.com/AboutCunard/N...wArticle&Mode=News&ContentID=6656&Active=News


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## gdynia

Jim
You just made my day Im working on the Palm Jumeriah at present and we were told last week she was definetely not coming. Now we got to find more bloody sand to build a berth for her.


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## Steve Woodward

Better the sands of the Gulf than the sands of Alang !


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## Tmac1720

gdynia said:


> Jim
> You just made my day Im working on the Palm Jumeriah at present and we were told last week she was definetely not coming. Now we got to find more bloody sand to build a berth for her.


Ahoy Nev, you kept *that* quiet, when you said you were thinking of buying a boat I thought you meant a yacht(Jester) Just wait until Gulpers finds out[=P]


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## gdynia

How right Steve will have to brush up on my English Grammar now


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## gdynia

Tom
Did not want to get Ray jealous in case he tampered with the SV,s


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## Pompeyfan

I bet this was the only way Cunard would sell her. Had another company wanted to buy her to keep her going as a cruise ship, she could have ended up the same way as Canberra. I have always argued that Canberra was scrapped because P&O was concerned that if another company bought her, they would have lost passengers. You only have to go aboard other P&O ships to find out how popular she was. They still prefer her to the new ones, and my reunion shows how popular she still is. After all, ships older than her are still in service. It is a pity a company didn't buy her to convert into a hotel?. Mind you, Oriana went that way, and look what happened to her, and Queen Mary is not doing too well at the moment. Lets hope the QE2 fairs better in her new role. Certainly passengers I have spoken to have said she is not what she was. So lets hope she is done up to her former glory albeit as a hotel?. David


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## gdynia

David
For people who have not been out in this neck of the woods or have visited these Palm Islands there in for a shock . There is a constant sand cloud hovering over them and it feels as if your being sand blasted on a daily basis. The heat is oppresive so unless they spend alot of money on her upkeep she will be a sh--ho--e within months. Its a bad mistake as far as Im concerned.


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## Gavin Gait

From what i've seen on the news David she will be refurbished to her absolute best conditions and used as a Hotel , shopping and business hub and knowing how much money there is in Dubai she won't go the way the Queen Mary has ( I wonder if someone can alert Dubai to the possibility of them buying the QM too... 2 Queens would make one hell of a tourist attraction ).


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## gdynia

Davie
There are already 300 plus hotels being built on this Palm alone. The bubble will burst here one day the normal European family can not take the Summer heat here so for at least 3 to 4 months of the year their is a sharp decline in tourism.


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## SN NewsCaster

*QE2 set to become floating hotel (BBC News)*

Dubai pays $100m to buy the Queen Elizabeth 2 liner which it will turn into a floating hotel.

More from BBC News...


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## R58484956

*QE 2 to be sold*

According to the local rag the QE2 is to be sold for £50 million to Dubai World Co; who also own P&O through their offshoot Istithmar. A special pier will be built at "The Palm Jumeirah" to accomodate her. Carol Marlow President & MD of Cunard said "we are delighted that she will have a permanent home so that future generations can continue to experience fully both the ship and her history. SHE will be sold November 2008. She will become a luxury floating hotel after major refurbishment.

PS sorry did not know another thread had appeared on same subject while I was typing.


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## K urgess

Found three versions so merged them all together.
Cheers
Kris


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## cockerhoop

well no one in the UK will be able to afford her at that price, and not many place could take a new 550+ room hotel


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## fred henderson

*QE2 Retirement*

The writing has been on the wall for QE2 for some time. 

She is 40 years old. Like Canberra her entire superstructure is made from aluminium that is way past its design life. Every recent annual refit has involved large amounts of crack repair welding and aluminium replacement. The same aluminium problem will effect the future of Saga Rose and Saga Ruby.

Another blow to QE2 is that Cunard has been dropped from the de-luxe class in a number of guides, because many of the cabins in QE2 are regarded as being too small, outdated and lack balconies. In the heat of the Gulf, the lack of balconies will be an advantage!

Marriot had an American liner in Kuwait until the invasion and Windsor Castle was in Jeddah for years. Let us hope QE2 is well cared for in her retirement home.

Fred(Thumb)


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## Pompeyfan

Gdynia

It would seem by your post that my concerns are correct. I was not thinking about the sands, but general upkeep however much money they have. In a way, perhaps Canberra was lucky. Far better remember them as they were, than falling into ruin.

And Davie, there would be more than two Queens?!!. David


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## K urgess

One would assume that if the sand was going to be a problem they'd just put her inside. 
They seem to have a thing about larger than life constructions.[=P]


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## Peter Eccleson

I am sure that we would all agree with the previous comment that the sands of Dubai are far better than the sands (mud!) of Alang. It's a fitting end for QE2 and has to ber preferable to the scrapyard.


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## gdynia

Kris
They are presently building the tallest building in the world in Dubai itself. The Palm we are on today is nearer Jebel Ali and now theirs plans to build an even taller building here so when does it end.These islands are eroding quicker than what they think and they are making them bigger all the time as its a real estate bonanza here - everyone thinks it because people want to live here but the truth is its large cooperates rather than pay tax buy real estate.

I see the condition of the already assembled hotels, homes etc here on a daily base. My home is half a mile from the beach and its one continous battle keeping the sand down everything is stained yellow with it. Theres no way they will be able to keep the QE2 in a pristine condition all it is is a tourist stunt. Check this photo out the Palm Deira is actually 14 kilometers long so it shows the scale of the whole project here built in a desert.

http://www.shipsnostalgia.com/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/58388/cat/500/ppuser/3675


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## cockerhoop

will mean Norway (France) will definately stay at Alang.


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## Paul UK

I have mixed feelings about this new yes it was going to happen that she would leave service, surely the dry atmosphere will be good for her albeit the sand will need to be kept control.

But although I would not want to see her on the beach I just hope she wont look to sad after all she should always be on the high seas ( I know not possible) 

Paul


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## K urgess

Another five minute wonder then, Neville.
They must've done some calculations at some time. As you've mentioned before, the offshore current running along there won't be helping.
Get on the bandwagon and then deny all knowledge when things go belly up or fashions change.
Sounds like trying to keep up with the Jones's. Mine's bigger than yours.[=P]


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## gdynia

Kris
Since we built the original Palm they found the hight calculations wrong. We have been back and raised it from 2 to 2.5 metres above sea level. No one had taken in to account the 100 year storm down here. Records indicate the average blow is 22 knots. These palms are being made bigger by the day as more companies and individuals clamer for properties. The palms will look like footballs before long but it pays the morgage.
We are also building a private island offshore(40 Kms) for a local Sheik to use as a boat haven. Cost 115 Million Dollars. Boat Haven my a--e


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## Gulpers

Tmac1720 said:


> Ahoy Nev, you kept *that* quiet, when you said you were thinking of buying a boat I thought you meant a yacht(Jester) Just wait until Gulpers finds out[=P]


Too true Tmac! 
I'll need to upgrade my yacht again - only trouble is, Nev makes *almost *£2.50 more than me a month! (EEK) 
Still, on the bright side, he'll probably fly you out to the Gulf to give QE2's Sluice Valves the "once over!" (Jester)


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## gdynia

Tom
Ive had 4 new boats delivered so far this month. 2 Pilot Boats and 2 Crew Launches all supposed to do 28 knots minimum. The quayside is full with them all broken down. Old Chinese proverb" Dont Buy Anything From China"


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## trotterdotpom

*Ship of the Desert*

It's hard to believe that QE2 is 40 years old - where did all those years go to?

I thought Dubai was OK when it was a haven for boozers in a largely dry Gulf, but, apart from transit passengers and the Beckhams, does anyone actually go there now? 

Good luck to Cunard for making a few quid, but the idea seems doomed to failure to me. I can't imagine Dubai's resident glitterati bothering to climb the gangway in order to buy a toy camel stuffed with used bandages!

I remember seeing Oriana looking like a floating pachinko parlour in Beppu, Japan - wonder if QE2 will go the same way?

John T.


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## raybnz

Awesome to hear she is going to saved from the cutting torches and gracefully retired.

I remember sitting in front of the tele at the Mother in Laws watching her launch. So many years ago now.


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## K urgess

Let's hope it works and she becomes a popular attraction.
The chippy from my first trip (Baron Wemyss - Hungry Hogarth's), Archie Boyd, was selected to be one of the launching chippies that were employed to ensure a smooth transition from dry land to wet water.

Kris


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## Keltic Star

gdynia said:


> Tom
> Ive had 4 new boats delivered so far this month. 2 Pilot Boats and 2 Crew Launches all supposed to do 28 knots minimum. The quayside is full with them all broken down. Old Chinese proverb" Dont Buy Anything From China"


Music to my ears.


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## Chris Isaac

Yet again Britain fails to preserve its own maritime history.
I remember seeing her on her maiden "shakedown" cruise leaving the Med while I was entering as 3/O on Reina Del Mar. (Where have the years gone?)
The QE2 originates from the 1960s when Britain had the greatest merchant fleet in the world manned by the greatest merchant navy.
We let the original Queens go, we let Canberra go, we let Windsor Castle go.
Should WE not approach English Heritage and get them to preserve at least something of our past. _(I was part of the group that tried to save Windsor Castle, without success)_ I fear it is too late, the QE2 is the last survivor and with her transformation into a boarding house she will become neglected once the cost of repair is beyond economic sense and will end up at Alang with all the others.
There is nothing left to show our children and grandchildren...... we were a great maritime nation!


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## Pompeyfan

Chris

I agree with every word. It bascially proves my point when others try to put this country down. If we are, or were so bad as some make out, why do others want to buy our heritage. David


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## gdynia

Pompeyfan said:


> Chris
> 
> I agree with every word. It bascially proves my point when others try to put this country down. If we are, or were so bad as some make out, why do others want to buy our heritage. David


David
Certainly not for Heritage but to make MONEY and these people here certainly do that


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## kevingillespie

While I would have rather seen her preserved in the UK, I am happy that she is not headed for Alang. This sounds like a win-win for everybody.


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## Chris Isaac

Its not a win win for us....... we have now lost the last British Passenger Liner
I would have preferred that she were either berthed permanently in either Southampton, New York or Glasgow... her birth place


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## Bruce Carson

Chris Isaac said:


> Its not a win win for us....... we have now lost the last British Passenger Liner
> I would have preferred that she were either berthed permanently in either Southampton, New York or Glasgow... her birth place



Oh, Oh, Chris, the Bankies are not going to like that.(Smoke) 
Maybe "or Glasgow, near her birth place."

Bruce C


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## Chris Isaac

My humble appologies to the "Bankies" whatever or whoever they are.


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## Bruce Carson

Chris, "Bankies" are the residents of Clydebank, that City being home to John Brown, builder of the Queens.

Best, 
Bruce C


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## duquesa

*QE2 to leave the cunard fleet*

I would be interested to know if anyone could track down the longest serving member of the QE2's crew. Any department - any rank. Idle curiosity.


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## TedKort

Well like the idea or not, its still part of the British heritage. She has been around all my life, and stood amongst others as a flagship of Great Britain as a ship more so than Cunard as a company ( No disrespect to Cunard intended ).

I was lucky enough to go on a cruise on her last year round the med for my 50th, and yes she may be old, but she is regal, has fine lines, looks like a ship, feels like a ship and can take seas far greater than modern cruise ships.

Im not sure whether its a good idea to let these things live on after their intended purpose, but who knows one day my grandkids may visit her and remember that their grandad once sailed on her.

Three cheers for the QE2 and all those who have sailed on her.


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## jaguar06

Chris Isaac said:


> Its not a win win for us....... we have now lost the last British Passenger Liner
> I would have preferred that she were either berthed permanently in either Southampton, New York or Glasgow... her birth place


And Cunard might not like that "last British Passenger Liner" either. Given the insistence that QM2 is a "liner". [=P] (Maybe I'm desparate. I'm starting to buy into that notion.)

But seriously, I'm sorry to see QE2 withdrawn. She initially seemed an unlikely successor to QE or QM when she debuted, but I learned to appreciate her lines (I guess I got thirsty in the desert). Watching the last of the vintage disappearing with France/Norway followed so closely by QE2 has me eyeing those little dinosaurs Saga Rose and Ruby and thinking "trip", for one last opportunity to do the more traditional ocean travel experience, minus rock climbing and water slides and all that other stuff I could do better on land anyway (if that's what I wanted). 

The real joy of travel for me was always the socializing with people over fine food and conversation--time that reminded me that such *is* the best thing I could ever *choose* to do with time on my hands. Not glitzy casinos, shopping malls and individual sports facilities, and all the rest that merely satisfies personal consumption. The best times of my life were spent traveling with people who had been strangers before meeting but ended up hugging and crying on parting. I've often thought of the profound truth of that old Cunard marketing slogan, "Getting there is half the fun". It was. Sometimes much more than half. The best parties I ever attended lasted a bit over four days and the cabin only got used for showering and changing.

I've yet to get to know anyone on a plane, much less feel like a hug or even a handshake, or to exchange an address for correspondence, so that mode is always my *last* choice. I prefer to travel with people who are not in a hurry to be there "like yesterday" and whose purposeful destination does not preclude them from enjoying the moment. 

I haven't done a cruise, yet, so perhaps I'm selling the experience short, but somehow I can't think I'd have much in common with people who can and do indulge and merely pay to go "nowhere". I hope QM2 *will* do some lining. It's the only way I'd set foot on board.

With this retirement, I'm ready to concede it's Fred's world now. (*)) I never thought it was mine anyway. (Sad)


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## Fairfield

It certainly would have been a coup if someone in this country could have taken the initiative to bring her back. The logistics would be difficult (Erskine Bridge) but the former John Brown basin at Clydebank would have been the ideal spot. But, anywhere in the UK would have been acceptable; Southampton, her port of registry or Liverpool even, Cunard's historic home.
Apathy and disinterest prevail unfortunately. She would have been a great attraction I'm sure wherever she was located. Just look at BRITANNIA at Leith.


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## Jonesy

To be honest whilst it not being the ideal outcome for such an important part of our maritime history it is probably the best result we could have hoped for.
Yes, it would have been great to see her preserved in her own country but do you really think that that was ever a likeliehood? No way, we simply don't have the wealth of (or is it vision?) of places like Dubai. We are far to busy throwing tax payers' money at other fruitless causes.
Whilst there are concerns that the sand may ruin her at least there will in the future be an opportunity perhaps to save her from that fate... if she were to have gone to Alang or suchlike there would be no comeback for sure, at least now there is a 'chance' that we may at some point in the future get our act together and bring her back. But I'm not going to hold my breath waiting.
Regards
John J.


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## Jeff Taylor

Putting aside the obvious concerns about her brittle aluminum superstructure, lack of balconies, and incredibly arcane range of cabin categories, I do have to wonder why Carnival/Cunard went to the trouble of announcing that she would be retrofitted for SOLAS 2010 when it's clear that from the moment they ordered Queen Victoria they had no intention of continuing to run her despite the high loadings she's still experiencing. Perhaps it was the terrible press Norweigian has gotten over the subterfuge surrounding the disposal of France/Norway that they were just trying to avoid discussing the matter until they found a suitable end use for her, but I'd love to know the truth.


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## Lksimcoe

Even tho I'm a "bloody colonial" (as my grandmum used to say), I have mixed feelings about the QE2 going to Dubai.

That being said, Carnival/Cunard is in business to make money for its shareholders. When you count the $100 million they got for her, you have to figure how many passengers would they have had to have carried to earn that much net profit (before taxes), and how long would that have taken. And, would she have lasted that long? 

Also figure that she would have needed an extensive refit to make sure she was 2010 SOLAS compliant. Over the next couple of years, you are going to see a lot of older ships beach in Alang or Bangladesh, as the owners realize that making them compliant just isn't worth it, as well as all of the remaining single hull tankers. And I think you can even count some of the older Carnival ships, built in the early 80's in this as well.

Would I like to have seen her in service for another 10 years? Sure. But given the rating that she has now, and as a previous poster said, that she doesn't even make a deluxe rating anymore, maybe retirement is the best thing. 

And who better than the government of Dubai. They have the money to ensure that nothing is done half assed, as we've seen with the Queen Mary.

I'm hoping that Cunard will replace her with a QE3, but somehow I don't think so. I think with the QM2, and the QV, that will be the last of Cunard.

Hell, my mum came to Canada (from County Durham) on the Aquitania, and my grandparents came over to visit every year on the Sylvania, or one of the other Cunard liners that came to Montreal. My great-grandparents too Cunard to Australia, so my family has a generational attachement to Cunard, but at the end of it, it's a business to make money. And I think the QE2 would not have made enough.


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## Andrew Fisher

You never appreciate what you have till it's gone. When I crossed on QE2 December 2004 we passed a permanantly grounded Concorde as a historical exhibit a couple of piers before pier 90 (QE2 parking slot - middle of Manhattan not some effing suburb like QM2). That was the ultimate aircraft - a regular service at 1300mph, you can do some business in NY but still get back in time to see your football/Rugby League team in UK but of course this is 2007 and everything gets dumbed down and if we want to go to NY by plane now we have to take the slower and technically inferior non supersonic aircraft, or if you're going by ship it takes longer than before World War 1. It's all going backwards. I will personally buy a bottle of scotch for anyone who can convince me that the modern world is better in any way on the following grounds:

1. Can someone please explain how modern cattle truck aircraft are superior to the genius that was Concorde (Mach2 vs can't even get the wine chilled properly even though you have 6 hours to do it)
2. Can someone please explain why marine architects who produced the achingly beautiful and phenomenally strong QE2 have gone backwards (to the extent that Oriana gets structurally breached by 40 ft waves but QE2 maintains 25 knots in those conditions). Just as an aside, QE2 max speed 33.8 knots on 1987 trials, Queen Victoria 23.7 knots
3. Can someone convince me that Arctic Monkeys are superior to Led Zeppelin


I think I can rest my case


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## Chris Isaac

Andrew...... you have got a serious case of nostalgia!
I agree with everything you say about marine and aero transportation and dont even get me started on today's music!
Apart from us here, the rest of Britain neither knows nor cares about our MN heritage. Mainly because it has never seemed important and I guess because the average Brit, unless they lived near some docks had any idea just what the MN was.
As a consequence ships come and they go and are replaced by something BIGGER but definately not better.
If I take my mind back 40 years I can vividly remember entering KGV in London and seeing the rows of BRITISH ships down each side of KGV, Victoria and Albert Docks. Coming up Southampton water to see BRITISH liner after BRITISH liner on the Ocean Terminal and down the Itchen Quay.
I can see the cranes swinging, the tugs scurrying around and I can hear the dockers swearing (or striking).
The great British public never saw that and consequently has no desire to preserve something of that era.
Its very sad and I feel there is little we can do to change this.


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## Pompeyfan

Andrew

No doubt Fred will explain about design.

QE2 was built as a passenger liner to withstand the seas of the North Atlnatic in winter, and indeed seas of the world like Canberra. If I have said it once, I have said it a hundred times, Canberra for example never rolled half as much as the current Oriana in simliar seas, and neither did Arcadia far smaller than either. I never sailed on QE2, but like QE2, Canberra and Arcadia that I worked on were both liners designed for transporting passenger from A to B, not a floating holiday centre.

QM2 was designed to withstand the North Atlantic, a proper liner according to her designer. She has all the balconies demanded of todays cruising passenger. And that is the problem, the demands of todays cruising passenger is affecting design which seem to make them roll more. I have been told by passengers who have travelled on QM2 that she rolls quite a bit in seas they would not expect, so I am wondering if the designer really was able to incorporate the liner design into a cruise ship. I have never sailed on her, so can't compare. Yes, other two Queens rolled, and so did Canberra and Arcadia. But it had to be really rough before. I was aboard Arcadia, 29,000 tons in a force 12 between Vancouver and Honolulu, and the Cyclone that destroyed Darwin. But she ploughed through it just like the grand old lady she was suffering no damage. 

Fred will say that these giant cruise ships are safe, and I would agree. But they are not as good sea ships as the smaller purpose built passenger liner. On one cruise Oriana was rolling off Ryde on the Isle of Wight where I live. The ferry tiny in comparison, was as smooth as a rock on my way over. Yes, they often roll like mad, but it was not that rough on the way over on that day. But Oriana had not read the script when I came back out on her in the same conditions.

On her world cruise, she rolled in seas that was not that bad. So I am in a position to compare the old with the new. For facilities, Oriana and other modern cruise ships are streets ahead of the old Arcadia and Canberra. Another world in fact. But when it comes to being sea ships, they will never compare to purpose built passenger liners. David


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## Jeff Taylor

Regarding QM2, I've never done the North Atlantic in her, but I have cruised on her in the Caribbean (yes, a mill pond), and in the Pacific from LA to Hawaii, and that was not a mill pond. The seas were rough, and between that and the wind they locked off the weather decks for two days. Did she have some movement, yes, but she is NOT a roller, even pushing at 26-27 kts. Frankly I was very impresed with her seakeeping. By comparison, I can tell you that on a mid-summer westbound transatlantic crossing on QE back in '68, we had both severe pitching and heavy rolling, and one day they strung out the lifelines in the large public rooms. As a fairly young man I thought it was exciting, but even with two sets of stabilizers out she rolled like a pig.


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## Pompeyfan

Jeff

Very glad to hear it. Stephen Payne who designed her will be delighted because he designed her as a trans-Atlantic liner plus to cater for the modern cruise passenger. So it is very good to hear that he has achieved both.

Yes, of course QE2 will roll badly in heavy seas. They all do, even purpose built liners if it is really rough. The seas I am talking are seas that not even the Isle of Wight ferry rolled in let alone a cruise ship. And even when slightly choppier Canberra or Arcadia would not have rolled where cruise ships would. Even Navigator of the Seas, twice as big as Oriana moved a bit going across the english Channel in calm seas. 

I am not putting Oriana for example down. She is a wonderful cruise ship, I love her to bits. I am just saying that she rolls in seas that Arcadia and Canberra didn't, and I put that down purely on design. I can think of nothing else. David


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## Ian

This thread has me feeling VERY OLD. I have now seen in my working lifetime the demise of two Queen Elizabeths....I don,t know about the rest of you but I feel a great sense of LOSS. ...............................
best regards 
Derbyroy


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## sparkie2182

i always approach this subject of ship preservation with mixed emotions.
IF the will and money is there to do a good job, keep her in fine fettle.......then by all means........a great thing to do.
BUT.......the cost of this is so high,and if the fate of my first, and lifelong love, the oriana is anything to go by.......i would prefer her to be turned into razorblades.


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## fred henderson

*Nostalgia*

Dave

Answers to two of your questions:

Concord was built entirely at the cost of the British and French taxpayers and given to BA and Air France for free, yet it still failed to make money for the airlines. Tony Benn thought it was a wonderful idea, but then Filton was in his constituancy. Gordon Brown thinks promising to assemble the RN's future aircraft carriers at Rosyth, in his constituancy is a good idea and the longer it can be put off the better. If the government is footing the bill, the answer is rarely sound economics.

The cost of building the first Queens was met by a government loan and the mail carrying subsidy was increased to cover the cost of repaying the loans and the interest. QE2 was also funded by low interest government loans, but Cunard had to repay the cost, which is why she was a more viable proposition. Even so, she would not have been here today if Cunard had not sent her to Germany to remove her gas-guzzling steam turbines and replace them with a diesel-electric power station plant, thereby saving over 200 tons of fuel a day.

All of the present day cruise ships are entirely funded by their owners on a commercial basis and they make money. They are built to meet far more stringent standards than the classic liners. These standards are why many of the old ladies will need to retire by 2010.

Fred(Thumb)


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## non descript

With due resepct to the headline writers of the Sun... Did the *"Owners of QE2 Desert her or just Palm her off"* (Jester)


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## Geoff Garrett

A wonderful thing nostalgia, only one problem with it - you can't eat it.


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## Mark Chirnside

fred henderson said:


> She is 40 years old. Like Canberra her entire superstructure is made from aluminium that is way past its design life. Every recent annual refit has involved large amounts of crack repair welding and aluminium replacement. The same aluminium problem will effect the future of Saga Rose and Saga Ruby.


Interesting you should say that, Fred. This is an interesting aspect. I understand QE2's hull in general is extremely strong and well built, and remains in good condition, but as you rightly say the same does not seem to be true for the superstructure.

As I understand from information that Bill Sauder (ocean liner historian and a Queen Mary tour guide some years ago) posted in August 2002, he said that:

'The omission of the expansion joints, however mean that all those fabulously beautiful square windows right under boat deck all have fabulously beautiful steel patches to cover the HUNDREDS of cracks that spring from each and every corner of each and every window. 

Alas, Cunard forgot the old rule, "don't put square windows under your strength deck." '

Looks like these problems were there from the start?

Thanks for sharing this interesting information.

Best wishes,

Mark.


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## RayJordandpo

What happens when they get a really strong "Shamal"? I've seen more than fifty knots on occasion, blew the roofs off quayside wharehouses. 
I agree with Benjidog, it looks the bones of a kipper.
Ray Jordan


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## gdynia

Ray
The same as everything else down here it gets damaged. The islands are to low to protect it


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## Trevor George

*QE2 Conversion to Hotel*

Does anyone know the exact reason for this? It's a shame that this is the last great British built ship still in service.


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## Fairfield

Money,no doubt. Heritage takes a back seat. It is a shame no-one could have made approaches to have her retained in the UK although that would have had to be done years ago.


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## Mark Chirnside

As I understand it, the deal was 'signed and sealed' before any public consultation. 

If that is right, would not a better practise have been to invite bids for the ship, thereby ensuring other companies or individuals were able to submit their offers?

Best wishes,

Mark.


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## Thamesphil

It was a straighforward sale & purchase (S&P) transaction. She does not comply with SOLAS 2010 and the cost of bringing her into line with this would be prohibitive, so the only option is conversion or scrap.

Phil


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## gdynia

Fairfield said:


> Money,no doubt. Heritage takes a back seat. It is a shame no-one could have made approaches to have her retained in the UK although that would have had to be done years ago.


Paul
Problem is was she British owned for past few years so I think it was inevetable she would go abroad but she will be in good hands we are building her berth here in Dubai


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## Ngaio 62

I hope they treat her better than the Queen Mary has been treated

Martin


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## Mark Chirnside

Thamesphil said:


> It was a straighforward sale & purchase (S&P) transaction. She does not comply with SOLAS 2010 and the cost of bringing her into line with this would be prohibitive, so the only option is conversion or scrap.


Thanks for the information, Phil.

It's strange because I had seen a report somewhere speculating that she would remain in service until 2015+ . Either the report did not account for the 2010 regulations, or mistakenly believed she would be brought into compliance. What were the main problems in bringing her into line? Obivously it's expense but were the issues mainly fire regulation?

Best wishes,

Mark.


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## Mark Chirnside

I found some interesting comments about the superstructure design in John Maxtone-Graham's new book. There's a preview online at: http://www.hachettebookgroupusa.com/books/8/0821228846/chapter_excerpt18434.html 

The book states:



> Nevertheless, in the long term, aluminum involves some disadvantages. Though one-sixth the weight of steel, it is less dense and it hardens with age, changing characteristics. After more than three decades, QE2's superstructure has lost much of its initial resiliency. Panels of the metal around the upper three decks are starting to show wear. Cracking has occurred at stress points—around window frames, in corners, and even where holes have been drilled. Since aluminum cannot be easily strapped or patched, occasional panels have been replaced.


This would seem to be one of the issues that was being discussed on an earlier thread, with regard to stress cracking in the aluminum superstructure. I don't see that stress cracking of some sort is anything unusual on a vessel of this age, but the specific comments were very interesting to me from an engineering viewpoint. This does raise the question as to what modifications will be necessary as part of the conversion, after all she will be in a rather hot atmosphere in her new home. (How humid is Dubai? Is it a hot or a dry heat? I am assuming dry.)

Best wishes,

Mark.


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## RGascoyne

I sailed on QE2 twice in 2001 and she was definately showing her age. In the tropics it was stifling, as the central air could not cope. I also heard about the additons of balcony suites, on her upper decks, that had water ingress problems. (By chance I saw her leave on her maiden voyage, as I was working in Southampton New Docks that day.)


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## Thamesphil

Mark,

There is some interesting references to SOLAS 2010 here:

http://www.ssmaritime.com/SOLAS.htm

It doesn't specifically mention QEII, but just briefly reading through what are some complex issues, it could be that she does not meet the design critera for survivability in the event of an accident. However, that is pure speculation on my part.

Phil


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## Mark Chirnside

RGascoyne said:


> I sailed on QE2 twice in 2001 and she was definately showing her age. In the tropics it was stifling, as the central air could not cope. I also heard about the additons of balcony suites, on her upper decks, that had water ingress problems. (By chance I saw her leave on her maiden voyage, as I was working in Southampton New Docks that day.)


That must have been a wonderful event to witness her leave on her maiden voyage.

I assume they'll need a lot more air con for the hotel! 

Best wishes,

Mark.


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## Mark Chirnside

Hi Phil,

Thanks for the link. It is interesting to read through. I suppose since she's been in service since 1969 she must be heavily modified already, as new SOLAS standards came into force over the previous decades.

Your mention of the name brings up an anecdote I read some time ago. I might get ribbed for this, but it was an amusing aside. It may not be true. A letter was reportedly addressed to the 'QEII' and arrived onboard. It was sent back in the post and marked 'try Buckingham Palace.'

I think I have got this the right way round, but I was told that QE2 uses the Arabic numeral rather than the Roman one, to distinguish her so that she is the second Queen Elizabeth liner rather than a liner named after Queen Elizabeth II. I don't know if that's correct, maybe someone else knows?

Best wishes,

Mark.


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## Thamesphil

Quite right Mark. I should have referrred to her as QE2 and not QEII. Force of habit really in dealing with so many other ships that use the roman numeral system in their names, rather than arabic.

Incidentally, why do so many people write '11' isntead of II......It's so annoying, but I digress..... (Jester) 

Phil


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## Mark Chirnside

Hi Phil,

I know the feeling. I wasn't sure if the story was correct that she was named to be the second Queen Elizabeth liner, though. I understand Queen Mary was named after Queen Mary, and the original Queen Elizabeth after Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother (as she became). So, if it's true that Queen Elizabeth is merely the second liner then I wonder whey they didn't name her after the monarch.



Thamesphil said:


> Incidentally, why do so many people write '11' isntead of II......It's so annoying, but I digress..... (Jester)


(Thumb) Too true! My favourite ship is Olympic and I once saw her down as 'Olympic 11'. White Star once considered using the name Olympic for an aborted sistership of the 1899 Oceanic (II), so the person was referring to Olympic (1911) as the second ship for the line. I don't think that's quite true if the name was not used the first time, but she they had her down as the eleventh! 

Best wishes,

Mark.


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## Ron Stringer

*SOLAS Amendments*



Mark Chirnside said:


> I suppose since she's been in service since 1969 she must be heavily modified already, as new SOLAS standards came into force over the previous decades. Mark.


Generally any SOLAS amendments only apply to new buildings and existing vessels are "grandfathered" and need not comply. Exceptions are made when the amendments involve the supply of additional safety equipment. However even then there is normally a long delay (a decade or so) before the amendments are applied to existing vessels. Where significant structural changes would be involved, existing vessels are normally exempted in the SOLAS amendments themselves, or by the flag state. 

SOLAS regulations are only recommendations to flag states; it is up to the flag state whether or not they are made mandatory on ships registered under their flag.


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## Mark Chirnside

Thanks for the information, Ron.

I guess it can be easier and most practical for changes to be made gradually, in incremental steps.

Best wishes,

Mark.


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## mrcanoehead

*Gulf region then & now.. just a whole lot bigger tourist attraction.*

(K) Was there in dubai back in the early 1990's there on the msc ship siruis, for 4 months & out for two then back again for 4, resuppling us navy in the gulf region, remember Dubai well, stayed many times at the Chicago Beach hotel, now the jumerriah beach hotel , drank at happy hour many at night at Der Kellar, Last time there was winter of 05, not impressed with it all, hate to see it when the lights finnally go out there won't be nice...So do any of you there ever go over to the jumerriah beach hotel for dinner or drinks...The steak house on the top was good is it still.


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## captkenn

trotterdotpom said:


> It's hard to believe that QE2 is 40 years old - where did all those years go to?
> 
> I thought Dubai was OK when it was a haven for boozers in a largely dry Gulf, but, apart from transit passengers and the Beckhams, does anyone actually go there now? John T.


My son lives in a 40 foot container at Sana'a in the Yemen and goes there to cool off!


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## captkenn

jaguar06 said:


> The real joy of travel for me was always the socializing with people over fine food and conversation--time that reminded me that such *is* the best thing I could ever *choose* to do with time on my hands. Not glitzy casinos, shopping malls and individual sports facilities, and all the rest that merely satisfies personal consumption. The best times of my life were spent traveling with people who had been strangers before meeting but ended up hugging and crying on parting. I've often thought of the profound truth of that old Cunard marketing slogan, "Getting there is half the fun". It was. Sometimes much more than half. The best parties I ever attended lasted a bit over four days and the cabin only got used for showering and changing. (Sad)


A friend of ours was enthusing about a 21 day cruise she had done recently and I asked her what ship it was and she had no idea. No, she isn't senile - she is 45.


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## gdynia

Theres now a very strong rumour our Client who owns the Good Lady is seriously thinking of her doing trips around the Gulf and not being permantly moored up. The next few days should tell as we will have to do changes on her berth if it is the case


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## albert.s.i

well quite a lot of comments on this foram but however she ends up like all grand old ladies of the sea she will always be remembered as one of the . 
queens albert s.i


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## billyboy

Got room for the "SS United States" out there Nev...LOl


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## Chouan

Chris Isaac said:


> Yet again Britain fails to preserve its own maritime history.
> I remember seeing her on her maiden "shakedown" cruise leaving the Med while I was entering as 3/O on Reina Del Mar. (Where have the years gone?)
> The QE2 originates from the 1960s when Britain had the greatest merchant fleet in the world manned by the greatest merchant navy.
> We let the original Queens go, we let Canberra go, we let Windsor Castle go.
> Should WE not approach English Heritage and get them to preserve at least something of our past. _(I was part of the group that tried to save Windsor Castle, without success)_ I fear it is too late, the QE2 is the last survivor and with her transformation into a boarding house she will become neglected once the cost of repair is beyond economic sense and will end up at Alang with all the others.
> There is nothing left to show our children and grandchildren...... we were a great maritime nation!


She was little or nothing to do with us being a "Great Maritime Nation", Britain being a "Great Maritime Nation" had everything to do with Britain's general cargo ships, her bulk carriers and her tankers. Britain's passenger ships were always subsidised window dressing; it was the unglamourous commercial fleet that was "Great", but has gone and is forgotten and was too late years ago.


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## John Campbell

gdynia said:


> Theres now a very strong rumour our Client who owns the Good Lady is seriously thinking of her doing trips around the Gulf and not being permantly moored up. The next few days should tell as we will have to do changes on her berth if it is the case


Where are they going to get all the fresh water to supply these hotels etc.? And if the QE2 is to permanently tie up as an hotel they will they have her on shore power? Presumeably she will require an awful lot of pani too. 
JC


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## gdynia

John

Next to all these projects they have built a fresh water making plant so water is not a problem. Generating stations are already built apart from the World project. The money is here so nothing is the matter for them


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## cawky

Andrew Fisher said:


> You never appreciate what you have till it's gone. When I crossed on QE2 December 2004 we passed a permanantly grounded Concorde as a historical exhibit a couple of piers before pier 90 (QE2 parking slot - middle of Manhattan not some effing suburb like QM2). That was the ultimate aircraft - a regular service at 1300mph, you can do some business in NY but still get back in time to see your football/Rugby League team in UK but of course this is 2007 and everything gets dumbed down and if we want to go to NY by plane now we have to take the slower and technically inferior non supersonic aircraft, or if you're going by ship it takes longer than before World War 1. It's all going backwards. I will personally buy a bottle of scotch for anyone who can convince me that the modern world is better in any way on the following grounds:
> 
> 1. Can someone please explain how modern cattle truck aircraft are superior to the genius that was Concorde (Mach2 vs can't even get the wine chilled properly even though you have 6 hours to do it)
> 2. Can someone please explain why marine architects who produced the achingly beautiful and phenomenally strong QE2 have gone backwards (to the extent that Oriana gets structurally breached by 40 ft waves but QE2 maintains 25 knots in those conditions). Just as an aside, QE2 max speed 33.8 knots on 1987 trials, Queen Victoria 23.7 knots
> 3. Can someone convince me that Arctic Monkeys are superior to Led Zeppelin
> 
> 
> I think I can rest my case


If you go on this link:-

http://www.aisliverpool.org.uk/shiptrail.php?mmsi=232089000

and click on 16 th september , at about 10:18 off Flamborough Head the QE2 turned 90 degrees to head straight the coast and had a quite good gallop, she got to just under 26 Knots and the distance she travelled was about 20miles, then she started to follow the coast up to the Tyne.

Cawky


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## Jeff Taylor

In addition to SOLAS 2010 and the issue of the aluminum superstructure, a key reason for the retirement of QE2 was the fact that Carnival is postioning Cunard as their "big ship" luxury brand, and the accommodations on QE2 simply don't qualify for 5-star rating. Add that to the rather handsome price they are getting from Dubai, and the decision makes sense. She is simply functionally obsolescent.


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## whiskey johnny

sir
Queen elizabeth the first was queen of england and this queen is queen of great britain and northern ireland so to avoid sentiment and hard feelingfrom the scots who built herarabic numerals were used

yours jan


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## VLCC

It is a shame but old liners do require more and more money spent on them thier hulls obviously wear engines propellors ect, it would be nice to be an exhibit some where in england but sadly cost is always the problem with many things.


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## Chouan

Trevor George said:


> Does anyone know the exact reason for this? It's a shame that this is the last great British built ship still in service.


I'm sure that there must be other British built ships still sailing?


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## john g

Chouan said:


> I'm sure that there must be other British built ships still sailing?


Yes we sailed on the "Victoria" as was with the P&O (built at John Browns as the Kungsholm) apart for the debateable p&o conversion she was an absolute classic and still sails for a German company. But being realistic she showed serious signs of wear and tear especially with the painted out rust which was very obvious. Carnival I guess are looking to the future, the younger generations will not have any interset in classical ships , they have been brought up with a new philosophy regarding cruising and ocean travel, ships have to be spacious with all the facilities of modern day living. The older vessels (Artemis for example) have a great following with the older generations (average age on our last cruise was 71 !!) We felt very young but the atmospere on board was superb......so a very limited market for the older vessels and of course we Brits will put up with a lot, Americans won't tolerate second best.


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## PhilColebrook

It will be shame to see her go but she will be going to a spot where conditions (and money) will help her to survive. I think that if she had stayed here in Britain, she would have ended up neglected pretty quickly and a sorry shadow of her former self. I'm looking forward to the last westbound crossing next year. She may be a bit tatty but it will be one heck of a party!

Other Brit liners? The Saga Ruby (ex Caronia, Vistafjord) must have been one of the last passenger liners built in Britain and is still sailing (and in excellent condition).


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## fred henderson

About 50 % of Cunard’s passengers are American and as John G states, Americans will not tolerate second best accommodation. On the other hand, neither will the British or other nationalities today. 

With the introduction of modern cruise ships American cruise passenger numbers rose from 570,000 in 1970 to 1,600,000 in 1985. By contrast the UK market was only offered clapped-out old liners and cruise passenger numbers fell from 150,000 in 1974 to only 100,000 in 1981. Since 1995 when Canberra was at long last replaced by Oriana and other new cruise ships arrived in the UK market almost annually, UK cruise have figures followed the American Trend and in 2006 there were about 1,200,000 UK cruise passengers. 

World-wide about 17 million people took a cruise holiday in 2006, of these about 10 million were American. The American cruise trade association, CLIA, carried out a major market research exercise in 2006 and found that the average age of American cruise passengers is now 49 years and that 56% of those surveyed made their first cruise during or after 1999. 

There is a very limited market for nostalgia.

Fred(Thumb)


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## john g

I agree Fred, another aspect which weighs heavily in favour of cruising is the security, we always feel safe on a British vessel with the knowledge that any unacceptable behavior results in removal of the offender(s) from the vessel. It is interesting to note all areas aound the ship in port are now restricted.


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## SN NewsCaster

*QE2 to arrive at new Dubai home (BBC News)*

The world-famous QE2 is set to arrive in Dubai later where the ship will be turned into a floating hotel.

More from BBC News...


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## Peter Eccleson

*QE2 berthed this afternoon*

watched her berth in Dubai this afternon. Didn't have a camera with me (Cloud)


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## Pedro Baptista

... well, she finally finished her last voyage as a self-propulsioned vessel. 

Hope her new life to be as magnificent as her dead one.


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## SN NewsCaster

*QE2 handed over to its new owners (BBC News)*

The QE2 cruise ship is handed over to its new owners in Dubai ready to be turned into a floating hotel.

More from BBC News...


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## R58484956

*Qe 2*

The Dubai royal family have donated the 12 1/2 ton anchor of the QE2 to the port of Southampton.


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