# GPS Jamming ?



## cleansweeploch (Nov 13, 2010)

Just seen this. I wonder if there really is a threat, or is it really hot air?
Another sign of technology becoming more obtainable to everyone I suppose.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/02/22/gps_jammers_rife/


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## woodend (Nov 23, 2009)

Quote:'It is really good and practical in my life'.

'teribredlow' could you please explain the 'good and practical' uses of a GPS Jammer.


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## woodend (Nov 23, 2009)

Stranger and stranger: there was a 'post' at #2 from a 'teribredlow' about his purchasing and using a GPS Jammer and then 'poof', it disappeared! I must be dreaming as his active status was 1911 - 1913!!!!!


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## LouisB (Dec 23, 2007)

woodend said:


> Stranger and stranger: there was a 'post' at #2 from a 'teribredlow' about his purchasing and using a GPS Jammer and then 'poof', it disappeared! I must be dreaming as his active status was 1911 - 1913!!!!!


In spite of modern filter manufacture, however steep and narrow, and digital algorithm filteration techniques it is quite possible to build an RF generator working in or around 1575.42 MHz that has the ability to swamp the downlink frequency of satellites. The FM receivers of noisy neighbours could similarly be silenced by generating the 10.7 MHz if frequency. Plenty of circuits and components around plus a piece of Veroboard. Anybody with the ability to read a simple circuit and to be able to solder without damaging components could build a small unit.

LouisB. (Scribe)


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## Varley (Oct 1, 2006)

LouisB said:


> In spite of modern filter manufacture, however steep and narrow, and digital algorithm filteration techniques it is quite possible to build an RF generator working in or around 1575.42 MHz that has the ability to swamp the downlink frequency of satellites. The FM receivers of noisy neighbours could similarly be silenced by generating the 10.7 MHz if frequency. Plenty of circuits and components around plus a piece of Veroboard. Anybody with the ability to read a simple circuit and to be able to solder without damaging components could build a small unit.
> 
> LouisB. (Scribe)


By frequency and by the need to keep power limited for fear of detection any risk must be close-by. Coastal in other words. Perhaps that is a good thing to fear whether real or not. If you are using your (now fully available, or even differentially corrected) GPS in order to sail closer to the dry scenery than you can safely do without then Command of Titanic II should be yours.


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## LouisB (Dec 23, 2007)

Varley said:


> By frequency and by the need to keep power limited for fear of detection any risk must be close-by. Coastal in other words. Perhaps that is a good thing to fear whether real or not. If you are using your (now fully available, or even differentially corrected) GPS in order to sail closer to the dry scenery than you can safely do without then Command of Titanic II should be yours.


Concordia? Although sonar, either forward looking or with a wide footprint, would also have been a huge advantage I imagine. Just a thought.

LouisB. (Scribe)


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## Pilot mac (Jun 28, 2005)

woodend said:


> Quote:'It is really good and practical in my life'.
> 
> 'teribredlow' could you please explain the 'good and practical' uses of a GPS Jammer.


The target market was supposedly drivers of company cars that had a tracker fitted, plug this gizmo into the *** lighter and it blocks the GPS signal thus rendering the tracker useless. Result is that the boss does not know where you are. However there is an alternate market and that is for thieves. You can buy them on ebay.

I believe an experiment was carried out a couple of years ago where a large jammer was constructed and tested off the NE Coast . I believe the effects were wide reaching and affected other applications that have tapped into the gps system to utilise its time function. I will try to find the article.

regards
Dave


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## chadburn (Jun 2, 2008)

Pilot mac said:


> The target market was supposedly drivers of company cars that had a tracker fitted, plug this gizmo into the *** lighter and it blocks the GPS signal thus rendering the tracker useless. Result is that the boss does not know where you are. However there is an alternate market and that is for thieves. You can buy them on ebay.
> 
> I believe an experiment was carried out a couple of years ago where a large jammer was constructed and tested off the NE Coast . I believe the effects were wide reaching and affected other applications that have tapped into the gps system to utilise its time function. I will try to find the article.
> 
> ...


I hope you can David as I stumbled over the bases of a large T shaped aerial? looking out to sea on the Cliffs near Bempton which was alleged to have been used as a remote from Scarborough GCHQ.


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## Varley (Oct 1, 2006)

LouisB said:


> Concordia? Although sonar, either forward looking or with a wide footprint, would also have been a huge advantage I imagine. Just a thought.
> 
> LouisB. (Scribe)


I eagerly looked for any evidence that her stranding was down to electronics alone but could find none. Electronics was part of my business and that gives me the 'right' to warn against relying on it at the expense of the (often underappreciated) rock dodgers' mark I eyeball. If you take a merchant ship through any waters where your chart data was sufficiently uncertain for you to need to electronically 'feel your way' please ensure Mrs. Varley's little boy is not included in her compliment or on her passenger list. Titanic II will happen and it will be down to 'modern technology' (I mean an eye catching disaster not the worthy efforts of the Australian Gentleman).


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## Varley (Oct 1, 2006)

chadburn said:


> I hope you can David as I stumbled over the bases of a large T shaped aerial? looking out to sea on the Cliffs near Bempton which was alleged to have been used as a remote from Scarborough GCHQ.


Large aerial probably precludes this conspiracy theory (frequency) but i think there was an M notice about some sort of trials off Wales some time ago.


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## slick (Mar 31, 2006)

All,
I have read somewhere that some Ferry Companies are switching to a Navigation system eLoran in order to reduce the reliance on GPS.
Apparently lorries on Ferries are leaving their jammers on during the voyage...
Further there is the criminal element.
I am sure we have not heard the last.

Yours aye,

slick


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## pilot (Jan 8, 2006)

Varley's comment "but i think there was an M notice about some sort of trials off Wales some time ago". 

There was an article in the Numast Telegraph concerning trials off Scotland's East coast a few years ago too. Seem to think a Trinity House vessel was involved? Rgds.


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## Varley (Oct 1, 2006)

eLoran trials started in 2007 (I have heard described as Loran on steroids) in a few locations and I think the channel is one area covered.

I have not attended GCBS since late 90s and the topic of an alternative to GPS/GLONASS was under discussion then. There is some movement of IMO for this as well. Why exactly Gallileo is seen as being in this stable is, to me, strange. Jamming and political control may have been the rationale used by the conspiracy theorists but the reason it must be a good idea is the a solar mass ejection coming earthwards. Such may permanently disable satellites but only temporarily disrupt terrestrial networks.

It still does not mean we should use these systems in order to de-skill the bridge or to make the skilled reckless. High accuracy systems with high repeatability are required for particular applications DP, survey vessels and, with GPS GBAS, for aircraft automatic landing. Not for the average bulker and not to allow you to thrill the locals by sailing a load of passengers passed their bedroom windows.


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## LouisB (Dec 23, 2007)

Varley said:


> eLoran trials started in 2007 (I have heard described as Loran on steroids) in a few locations and I think the channel is one area covered.
> 
> I have not attended GCBS since late 90s and the topic of an alternative to GPS/GLONASS was under discussion then. There is some movement of IMO for this as well. Why exactly Gallileo is seen as being in this stable is, to me, strange. Jamming and political control may have been the rationale used by the conspiracy theorists but the reason it must be a good idea is the a solar mass ejection coming earthwards. Such may permanently disable satellites but only temporarily disrupt terrestrial networks.
> 
> It still does not mean we should use these systems in order to de-skill the bridge or to make the skilled reckless. High accuracy systems with high repeatability are required for particular applications DP, survey vessels and, with GPS GBAS, for aircraft automatic landing. Not for the average bulker and not to allow you to thrill the locals by sailing a load of passengers passed their bedroom windows.


Just the last bit - *allow you to thrill the locals by sailing a load of passengers passed their bedroom windows.* reminds me of landing at Kai Tak in the 70's. You could observe people in their apartments looking at you as the aircraft passed. Definitely not for the nervous or over imaginative. Off subject I know but couldn't resist.

LouisB. (Scribe)


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## King Ratt (Aug 23, 2005)

Hello again LB. And looking down onto the kites being flown from the roofs of the buildings added to the visual experience! 

Regards

Rab T


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## Varley (Oct 1, 2006)

LouisB said:


> Just the last bit - *allow you to thrill the locals by sailing a load of passengers passed their bedroom windows.* reminds me of landing at Kai Tak in the 70's. You could observe people in their apartments looking at you as the aircraft passed. Definitely not for the nervous or over imaginative. Off subject I know but couldn't resist.
> 
> LouisB. (Scribe)


Louis, Rather on topic. It is one thing for a technology to enable. Kai Tak (I am not privileged to have been thrilled like that but heard of it from most of my colleagues) is unlikely to have been viable for modern airliners without modern aids (which would not have included GBAS GPS). It is quite another to make an already viable and safe passage less so by pretending error margins can be eliminated. David V


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## Ron Stringer (Mar 15, 2005)

Most of the times I landed at Kai Tak we approached from the North-West and flew in between the apartment blocks as described. On occasion we had a South-East approach which I found more stressful since lining up with the runway involved a series of wing-tip turns between the high ground (on several islands and promontories), which were outside the normal behaviour of large passenger aircraft. The first time it happened to me I wondered what the Hell was going on as I suddenly got a view of the ground along the wing, which seemed almost vertical, only to be pitched back onto the other wing-tip. Were we under attack? Had something broken (CAAC flew aged Ilyushins and Antonovs)? 

Plus, knowing the layout in advance, the awareness that should we run out of runway we would be heading for a hard stop in a highly built-up area, rather than a splash into the harbour. Not a great choice.

Never complained about flying through Mrs Chan's washing lines again.


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## LouisB (Dec 23, 2007)

King Ratt said:


> Hello again LB. And looking down onto the kites being flown from the roofs of the buildings added to the visual experience!
> 
> Regards
> 
> Rab T


Hi Rab,

Far east station appointment - oh happy days. Always made sure I was mentally well cushioned before landing at Kai Tak. Fortunately mostly civilian flights and not RAF so plenty of medicine on hand. Many memories of waking up on the Star ferry and realising I was back where I had started.

Best regards,

LB.


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## chadburn (Jun 2, 2008)

LouisB said:


> Just the last bit - *allow you to thrill the locals by sailing a load of passengers passed their bedroom windows.* reminds me of landing at Kai Tak in the 70's. You could observe people in their apartments looking at you as the aircraft passed. Definitely not for the nervous or over imaginative. Off subject I know but couldn't resist.
> 
> LouisB. (Scribe)


I would not like to live on the approach to Heathrow when the Super Airbus starts making regular landings.


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## pilot (Jan 8, 2006)

*GPS jamming.*



slick said:


> All,
> I have read somewhere that some Ferry Companies are switching to a Navigation system eLoran in order to reduce the reliance on GPS.
> Apparently lorries on Ferries are leaving their jammers on during the voyage...
> Further there is the criminal element.
> ...


For a while it was common for a GPS to throw it's hand in when adjacent to Immingham Outer Harbour. i.e. in close proximity to Ro Ro ferries. 
The Ferry masters' complained about this too. Could well have been that this was when the lorries fired up prior to disembarking, or when loading.


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