# ‘Umpteen’ and Morse code



## Worldspan (Jan 2, 2012)

One of the clues in today’s Times Concise is ‘Ever so many’, the answer being ‘umpteen’. I became curious about the latter and checked some dictionaries. 

(1) The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language gives:

_[Slang ump(ty), dash in Morse code (of imitative origin) + -teen (as in THIRTEEN).]_

(2) dictionary.com (referring to umpty):

_1905, "of an indefinite number," originally Morse code slang for "dash," influenced by association with numerals such as twenty, thirty, etc.
_
I'd never come across 'ump' used to represent a dash but guess it dates back to the days of sounders; perhaps ‘ty’ was used to represent a dot (?) If so then C would have been “ump-ty-ump-ty” – like the poor old egg!

My father, a WW1 signaller who used flags, always said, “dash-dot-dash-dot” but I remember an aged RAF signaller talking about “dow-di-dow-dit”. Perhaps the old T1154 produced this kind of warble on a dash (?)

So that’s today’s bit of trivia.

W


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## Varley (Oct 1, 2006)

Most amusing. Never heard of it before. Pleased to do so now. Thanks a lot.


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## trotterdotpom (Apr 29, 2005)

Always a lot easier to remember morse in the dah dit dah dit mode rather that "dash dot ...".

As for the "umpteen" bit, surely it was inspired by the "teens" rather than the "twenties, etc". However, I'd say: "Don't believe everything your read in a dictionary" -Journalists read them too.

John T


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## Mad Landsman (Dec 1, 2005)

The OED is somewhat less committed to the idea and uses 'perh' (perhaps) in the etymology: 

*umpty */ʌm(p)ti/ noun & adjective¹. colloq. L19.
[ORIGIN Joc. formation after cardinal numerals twenty, thirty, etc., perh. orig. after military slang repr. of the dash in Morse code.]
► A noun. An indefinite number, usu. fairly large. L19.
► B adjective. Of an indefinite, usu. fairly large, number. E20.

Comb.: Forming combs. in imitation of compound numerals (cardinal and ordinal), as umpty-nine, umpty-seventh, etc. umpty-ump adjective & noun (of) an indefinite largish number.

umptieth adjective E20.

*umpteen* /ʌm(p)ˈti:n, ʌm(p)ti:n/ adjective & noun. colloq. Also umteen. E20.
[ORIGIN formed as umpty noun & adjective¹ + -teen, after thirteen, fourteen, etc.]
► A adjective. Of an indefinite number; many, several, a lot of (freq. with connotation of wearisome repetition). E20.
► B noun. An indefinite number in the abstract; a particular member at an unspecified or indeterminate position in a series. E20.

umpteenth adjective E20.


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## Dartskipper (Jan 16, 2015)

I gave up on the OED when the bloke in Dictionary Corner on Countdown allowed the word "Inlands" as the legitimate plural of "Inland".

I always thought "Inland" was followed by "Region" or "Area".

Now it includes "txt spk" and other modern corruptions of standard English. I don't remember seeing the old telegram abbreviations included in it's day. 

Never to old to learn something new.

Roy.


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## Naytikos (Oct 20, 2008)

A dot is 'iddy'
A dash is 'umpty'

Why?

Well when morse code was taught to potential telegraphists these words approximated to the sound made by a practice key.
You press the key and get a metallic click as the contacts make; release it and the back contacts make a similar noise. Do it quickly for a dot and it sounds like 'iddy'; do it slowly for a dash and you get 'umpty'.

In my uncle's 'Wolf Cubs Handbook' 192? edition, there is no mention of dot, dash, dit or dah, only iddy and umpty.


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## trotterdotpom (Apr 29, 2005)

Good point, Naytikos - I forgot they were listening to key clicks rather than the tone that us youngsters had the benefit of.

Maybe there is an oldster telegraphist around who can translate the song "Do wah diddy diddy down diddy do".

John T


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