# great grandfather search ? (new here/new to this)



## Sarah L (Jun 2, 2021)

hello

I’m wondering if it might be possible to find out from Kew (or anywhere else) what ship my g.grandfather worked on, and/ or any other details at all?

Dad is unsure whether he worked for Blue Funnel Line, Liverpool or White Star Line Liverpool..How could I find out who he worked for please?
I found what I think is a CR10 card type, in findmypast. it contains some info about my g.grandfather, and the first picture of him I’d seen.

Here’s some more details

Number of identity certificate: 105915

MNS Region: W

Region number: 0456107

Name: Robert David Jones

Rating: 2nd Engineer

Date and place of birth: 21/7/1888 Denbighshire Wales

Dis.A number: 847181

Series: BT350

Date range: 1918-1921 

Thank you


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## makko (Jul 20, 2006)

Dear Sarah,
There should be someone along in a while to guide you! Just hold on.
Where are you Rogd, Hugh, et al?
Rgds.
Dave


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## Hugh MacLean (Nov 18, 2005)

Hello Sarah and welcome.
I don't have access to my PC or files at the moment but will check for you later.
Regards
Hugh


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## Sarah L (Jun 2, 2021)

Thank you, I appreciate the replies above


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## Roger Griffiths (Feb 10, 2006)

Hello Sarah,
Let's see what Hugh comes back with but it seems you have found a CR 10 covering the date range 1918 to 1921. Are there any numbers on the back usualy of 6 digits. Doe's it give his Engineers Certificate number?
Further than that you can check him out in the index of Engineers certificates of service and competency. In the British National Archive series Bt141/3 and BT141/4 1862-1921
Engineers Names Fox - Park | The National Archives and Engineers Names F - L | The National Archives
You will need to visit Kew to view. Don't rush there. Wait to see if we can find more background on him first.There may be other files at Kew.
I can find no WW1 records of him and a search of Welsh Mariners comes up blank





Welsh Mariners Index


An on-line index of Welsh merchant masters, mates and engineers from 1845 to 1930



www.welshmariners.org.uk




I understand there are some records on Ancestry. Worth checking.

regards
Roger


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## Sarah L (Jun 2, 2021)

Hello Roger,

Thanks, that could give us a great headstart. 

The CR10 is on findmypast. I’m not sure if I can see any detail on the back of the CR10 there, but if not that is something to enquire about.

At the top of the CR10, it says number of identity certificate: 105915
(Just wondering if an engineers certificate number and number of identity certificate are the same thing..)

Thank you very much for the advice regarding how to search at Kew. 
I was just about to say also no need for haste.

I initially uploaded some info about Robert David Jones into my dad’s ancestry account, yes I have an uncle who’s really good at this kind of research also on ancestry ?

Thank you very much for the checks, the advice and the reply

Regards
Sarah


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## Hugh MacLean (Nov 18, 2005)

Hello Sarah,
Sorry – never got access to my computer until today. If you wish to send your email address via a private conversation, I can send you what I have.

There is no more detail on the back of the CR 10 card or any ship numbers/names. The identity certificate is not the same as the engineers certificate.

Robert David Jones Dis.A 187181, b. 21.7.1888, Denbighshire, Wales.
As well as a CR 10 card he also has a CR2 card which lists a couple of ships and is probably incomplete. I have transcribed the ships names at the bottom of this list.
There is no engineer’s Certificate of Competency number on the CR 10.

I have him possibly a passenger on ss FINLAND - Liverpool to New York 1917 proceeding to join the Blue Funnel Line ss EURYMEDON.
4th engineer on ss EURYMEDON – signs on 1st March 1917 New York.
95407 – PYLADES - 1918 [noted as previous ship on ss CLADDAGH - Irish crew lists].
124086 – CLADDAGH – Embarked Liverpool - 25.6.1918 – 1.7.1918 – discharged Liverpool. [As per Irish crew lists]
124086 – CLADDAGH – Embarked Liverpool - 2.7.1918 – 4.10.1918 – discharged Liverpool [As per Irish crew lists]
115351 – OANFA – 14.10.1922. As per CR2 card.
162324 – BRIGHTSIDE – 19.9.1930. As per CR2 card.
Regards
Hugh


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## Sarah L (Jun 2, 2021)

Hello Hugh,

This is just a quick line, until I post a reply that’s a bit longer...We are all amazed dad, mum, myself and no doubt other family members will be. Thank you ever so much for this, it’s just fantastic. I’ll send my email address. Please just reply if and when you can, please don’t apologise.

Thank you again and best wishes

Sarah


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## BillH (Oct 10, 2007)

The following are the careers of the four vessels mentioned earlier by Hugh

*EURYMEDON (1915 - 1922) * Eurymedon class steel steamship.
O.N. 115294. 5,194g. 3,361n. 410.3 x 49.3 x 29.5 feet.
T.3-cyl. (26", 44" & 73" x 48") engine by D. Rowan & Company, Glasgow. 2,000 IHP. 10½ kts.
20.5.1902: Launched as INDRAWADI by C. Connell & Company, Glasgow (Yard No. 268) for the Indra Line Ltd., (T. B. Royden, manager), Liverpool. 
19.6.1902: Registered at Liverpool. 
6.1902: Completed. 
30.8.1915: Purchased by the Ocean Steamship Company Ltd., and later renamed EURYMEDON.
24.2.1918 until 7.5.1918: Royal Navy collier No. 2031. 
8.5.1918 until 4.7.1918: Wheat to Karachi. 
5.7.1918 until 18.9.1918: Wheat from Canada. 
19.9.1918 until 19.11.1918: Royal Navy collier No. 2031. 
1922: Sold to the Southern Sealing & Whaling Company,(N. C. Watt, manager), London.
1922: Sold to Skibsrederi AS Southern Queen, (Thor Thoresen, manager), Norway, converted into a tanker, and renamed SOUTHERN QUEEN. 
24.2.1928: Sustained severe damage by ice flows off South Orkney, and sank.* 

OANFA (1903 - 1931)* Keemun class steel steamship.
O.N. 115351. 8,819g. 5,676n. 480.0 x 58.3 x 32.7 feet.
Two, T.3-cyl. (23½", 38½" & 65¼" x 48") engines by the shipbuilder, driving twin propeller shafts. 5,870 IHP. 13½ kts.
13.11.1902: Launched by D. & W. Henderson & Company Ltd., Glasgow (Yard No.430) for the China Mutual Steam Navigation Company Ltd., Liverpool. 
20.12.1902: Trials.
13.1.1903: Registered at Liverpool. 
1.1903: Completed. 
18/20.9.1920: Suffered a fire in her cargo. 
25.12.1931: Arrived at Osaka for demolition.
* 

CLADDAGH (1916 – 1924)*
O.N. 124086. 640g. 280n. 180.0 x 28.5 x 12.6 feet
T.3-cyl. (16”, 27” & 44” x 30”) engine by Blair & Co. Ltd., Stockton on Tees. 90nhp
8.8.1907: Launched as SUSSEX COAST by William Harkess & Son Ltd., Middlesbrough (Yard No. 170)
9.1907: Completed for F. H. Powell & Co., Liverpool
1908: Sold to Watchful S.S. Co. Ltd. (F. H. Powell & Co.), Liverpool and renamed TRUTHFUL
1913: Sold to Powell, Bacon & Hough Lines Ltd., Liverpool and renamed WIRRAL COAST
1916: Sold to Limerick S.S. Co. Ltd., Limerick and renamed CLADDAGH
1917: Sold to Claddagh S.S. Co. Ltd (Kater & Robinson), London
1922: Sold to City of Cork Steam Packet Co. Ltd., Cork
1924: Sold to Ellerman's Wilson Line Ltd., Hull and renamed NERO
1928: Sold to Ada Cristina Piazza in D'Arrigo, Catania and renamed CRISTINA
1930: Sold to A. Patane & Co., Trieste and renamed GAGLIARDO
1931: Sold to Ivo Vacchi Suzzi, Trieste IMOLA
1933: Sold to Dante Pompei, Ancona MARCHIGIANO
1935: Sold to Soc. Italaiana A.T.I.L., Genoa
13.3.1936: Whilst on passage Genoa with benzine for Assab suffered an explosion off Cape Elba in the Red Sea, and sank


*PYLADES *
O.N. 95407. 681g. 222n. 182.8 x 27.9 x 12.3 feet
T.3-cyl. (15”, 25 ½” & 41” x 30”) engine by Ross & Duncan, Glasgow. 85rhp
11.8.1903: Launched by Richard Williamson & Son, Harrington, Workington (Yard No. 187)
9.1903: Completed for Richard & Robert Williamson, Workington
12.1903: Sold to City of Cork Steam Packet Co. Ltd., Cork (reg. Cork)
2.1919: Sold to Matthew Taylor, Methil
12.11.1937: Whilst on a voyage from Havre with zinc for Antwerp developed a list and foundered 12 miles north of Veulettes,


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## Roger Griffiths (Feb 10, 2006)

Hello Sarah,
As expected, Hugh as given us the backbone of your g/grandfathers seagoing career. As he acknowledges, there seems to be omissions, in particular the period 1922 -1930 Of course your man could have left the sea for that period. I suggest you take a look at the Crew Agreement of BRIGHTSIDE O/N 162324 covering the period 19/09/1930. This should tell you his previous ship and hopefully his Engineers Certificate number 
Her 1930 C/A,s are available from here Crew List Index Search Results
Cost around £25. Ask them to try and trace him back as far as possible.MHA have an excellent research service.

Hugh, 
Would I be correct in assuming that Robert Jones would have a WW1 medal entitlement for his service on EURYMEDON, PYLADES and CLADDAGH?

regards
Roger


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## Hugh MacLean (Nov 18, 2005)

Hi Roger,
Yes, you would be correct in that assumption. However, It is Ministry of Defence policy to *not *issue medal replacements for service before 1920, irrespective of entitlement and I am reasonably sure that that would equally apply to the Registry of Shipping & Seamen who are the medal authority for issuing Mercantile Marine medals. However, as always, I would advise checking with the RSS in Cardiff to be sure.
Regards
Hugh


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## BillH (Oct 10, 2007)

*BRIGHTSIDE*
O.N. 162324. 476g. 189n. 142.2. x 25.2 x 11.5 feet
C.2-cyl. (18” & 38” x 27”) by Abdela & Mitchell Ltd.69nhp,
10.6.1930: Launched by Isaac J. Abdela & Mitchell (1925) Ltd., Queensferry (Yard No. 464) Builder also seen as Abdela - Mitchell (Walter Smith)
25.8.1930: Completed for Eltham Shipping Co. Ltd. (George Canning), Wallasey . 
3.1932: Sold to Leslie Knopp, Liverpool
3.1933: Sold to Fortis Steamship Co. Ltd., Liverpool (T. H. Donking & Sons Ltd., Middlesbrough, managers
2.1946:Sold to Robert Taylor & Sons Ltd. (G. T. Gillie & Blair Ltd., managers ) Dundee
24.9.1949: Whilst on a voyage from London with cement for Inverness, wrecked 1.5nm south of Collieston, near Peterhead


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## Sarah L (Jun 2, 2021)

Oh my goodness, thank you so much Bill, Roger and Hugh.

I’ll get stuck into this wealth of information again soon, with dad. 

Just a bit of background, we only knew a couple of anecdotes about Robert Jones’s seafaring. All we knew was he perhaps worked for Blue Funnel, we knew he worked for Abdela & Mitchell, that was a local company, we didn’t know which ship. Nothing else was known from all the information kindly posted. 
Grandad’s dad Robert Jones, passed away when grandad and his siblings were kids, I think around 1940. Robert Jones had married into a maritime family.

(Having recently spent another day near Liverpool waterfront).. I decided to try and find out more information, and there we are..

I am very grateful for the information and advice 

Thank you everyone

Sarah


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## BillH (Oct 10, 2007)

Hi Sarah,

OANFA and EURYMEDON were both Blue Funnel vessels, which is not apparent in my detail as they were registered to participant subsidiary companies.

If you send me your email address via the private conversation method, I ca send you digital images of the above pair and will scour my usual resources for the others, in hope of finding something.

Bill


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## Sarah L (Jun 2, 2021)

Hi Bill 

That is great, that’s excellent research and advice from everyone. Please don’t go to any trouble. I’ll try to get onto sending my email address to yourself and Hugh. This has filled in a lot of important valuable blanks that have been missing for a long time.

Regards
Sarah


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## Sarah L (Jun 2, 2021)

makko said:


> Dear Sarah,
> There should be someone along in a while to guide you! Just hold on.
> Where are you Rogd, Hugh, et al?
> Rgds.
> Dave


many thanks to yourself and everyone ??


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