# British Dredging



## capital3

Anyone have any info on British Dredging and their Ships. I was Chief Engineer of the Bow Queen in the 60s and would love to see some photos of her.

All the Ships in the Fleet started with "Bow=====. The Bow Belle was the Dredger that ran over the Marchioness on the Thames with a great loss of life.


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## Jacktar1

*Bow Queen*

Hello capital3, I remember the Bow Queen running in to Swansea, do you happen to remember a master named Fred or George Pearce ?
Cheers,
Glan


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## awateah2

There is a picture of the 'Susana Cristina' ex 'Bowqueen' posted in the gallery by Yvon on the 30th June. If you Email me I can send a couple more to you. Regards


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## vectiscol

I did several of the drawings - aft end, rudder, deckhouse - for Bowherald and Bowknight when I worked at Ailsa Shipbuilding Co, Troon.


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## booma

Hello capital3 and welcome i have been aboard most of the bow ships unfortunatly non of the bow ships are in service now. i have loads of photos of the bow ships and will be happy to pass them on if u email me 
regards


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## gadgee

Capital3
Enter Gallery on this site and look for "search". Type in a vessels name eg. Bowbelle and you will find there are a few "Bow" dredgers pictured. Unfortunately if you type in just "bow" it will bring up all pics with bow in, most likely refering to a ships bow!!


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## NICK_XACT

capital3 said:


> Anyone have any info on British Dredging and their Ships. I was Chief Engineer of the Bow Queen in the 60s and would love to see some photos of her.
> 
> All the Ships in the Fleet started with "Bow=====. The Bow Belle was the Dredger that ran over the Marchioness on the Thames with a great loss of life.


Hi,
just done a search for the bowqueen with my dad (archie (geoff) Lines) who was also a chief engineer of the queen and on the belle in the 60-70's from Orchard wharf in Battersea.
any info would be great on the Ships or the Crew (hughi gunderson, john Coul, Les Round the list goes on) around that time


Best Regards
Nick Lines


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## sandman

The last new build under British Dredging was the Welsh Piper built in 87,now under cemex ownership.


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## awateah2

Sailed with your dad in the 'Bowqueen',1971 -73, Master was Hughie Gunderson,Chester Le Street R/Master Georgie Peck, Hull later John Jamieson, Hull then Tommy Howe,Hessle who was my best man and Godfather to my daughter, 2nd Mate Davie O'Connor, Fleetwood & myself. The 2nd Engineer was Alan Conroy from Worcester. It was Orchard Wharf on the Isle of Dogs and Nine Elms wharf in Battersea . Other people I remember were John Smith from Findochty (Bowfleet), Les Waugh from Hull,(Instow) Arthur Hounslow (Bowtrader) from the London area. Jimmy Ewing,Scottish but living in Dover (Instow), Ronnie Taylor ,Hull (Instow) & Ronnie Regan.Hull (Moderator) & The Gawthorpes from Hessle Rd and the infamous cook /Steward 'Harry the Hare'. Shore staff I remember were Arthur Thomas (Personnel) & Capt John Bright Marine Superintendent
Regards


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## RayJordandpo

I recall a dredger mate from Hull called Ronnie Gawthorpe. I was with him in Westminster Dredging or South Coast Shipping, I can't remember. He also went on the anchor handling tugs in the North Sea for either Theriot or Seaspan, there again I can't remember which.
Ray Jordan


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## norman.r

As mate I sailed with John Jamieson as master on "Bowknight" in the early 80's and then on "Bowbelle" with John Coull and Tommy Howe as master.
Norman


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## NICK_XACT

awateah2 said:


> Sailed with your dad in the 'Bowqueen', Master was Hughie Gunderson,Chester Le Street R/Master Georgie Peck, Hull later John Jamieson, Hull then Tommy Howe,Hessle who was my best man and Godfather to my daughter, 2nd Mate Davie O'Connor, Fleetwood & myself. The 2nd Engineer was Alan Conroy from Worcester. It was Orchard Wharf on the Isle of Dogs and Nine Elms wharf in Battersea . Other people I remember were John Smith from Findochty (Bowfleet), Les Waugh from Hull,(Instow) Arthur Hounslow (Bowtrader) from the London area. Jimmy Ewing,Scottish but living in Dover (Instow), Ronnie Taylor ,Hull (Instow) & Ronnie Regan.Hull (Moderator) & The Gawthorpes from Hessle Rd and the infamous cook /Steward 'Harry the Hare'
> Regards


 
Hi, you just made the old man's day. sorry did not get you name. if you or anyone has some pics of the crews/ships it would be great if you could send me some _(email address removed as per site policy please use PM to make intial contact)_ as i am trying to put togeather a scrap book type thing for my dad. The only time i see the old (82)fella smile these days is when we are chatting about the times on board and the stuff that went on!

Thanks again as its has made his day

Best Regards
Nick Lines
[email protected]


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## awateah2

Hi Ray,
There were 'The 2 Ronnies', Ronnie senior who was in the 'Instow' as 2nd Engineer. He was an ex Trawler Engineer and his son 'Young' Ronnie who must have been the one you sailed with. There was also Wally Gawthorpe who sailed in the 'Instow' at the same time as cook.He baked fresh 'Busters' every morning and filled them with bacon and Eggs fantastic !!! The family were well known in the Dee St club area for their pugilistic skills. We ran regularly at that time into Old Harbour, just below Ranks Mill. Our watering hole was the 'Bush' although that was only a nickname, I think it was called the 'Waterloo'. I used the 'Manny Arms' and met a lot of people there . Very Happy days !!!!
regards


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## RayJordandpo

awateah2 said:


> Hi Ray,
> There were 'The 2 Ronnies', Ronnie senior who was in the 'Instow' as 2nd Engineer. He was an ex Trawler Engineer and his son 'Young' Ronnie who must have been the one you sailed with. There was also Wally Gawthorpe who sailed in the 'Instow' at the same time as cook.He baked fresh 'Busters' every morning and filled them with bacon and Eggs fantastic !!! The family were well known in the Dee St club area for their pugilistic skills. We ran regularly at that time into Old Harbour, just below Ranks Mill. Our watering hole was the 'Bush' although that was only a nickname, I think it was called the 'Waterloo'. I used the 'Manny Arms' and met a lot of people there . Very Happy days !!!!
> regards


Maybe our paths crossed. I served with United Towing for thirteen years and used 'Manny Arms' regularly in the seventies and eighties. I remember when Terry Gay, Danny Betts and Les Derret (whose brother wrote the stability books) attended Hull Nautical College (I believe you mentioned this in a previous thread) I followed them shortly after. I certainly remember Dee Street club and all the other pubs and clubs used by the local seamen and trawlermen of tha era. I did a couple of trips on dredgers for Westminster and South Coast but it wasn't really to my liking and soon moved on to supply boats then DP in the Offshore game. Ronnie Gawthorpe as I recall was certainly a 'colourful' character to say the least.
Take care
Ray Jordan


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## capital3

Just a quickie to tell you that Orchard Wharf was not at Battersea it was where Canary Wharf now stands at the bottom of Leamouth Road in Poplar.

It was only the Bow Ships built to go under the Bridges on the Thames that went to Battersea. The Bowqueen had no meants of doing so.


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## booma

Hello to all it was the bowtrader bowbelle & the bowsprite that whent to battersea wich was called nine elms. I remember orchard wharf well and yes it is at poplar not well suited for the thips that discharged there too shallow the crain never worked so the likes of the trader and so on could not discharge there. Does any one remember OZZY who used to work there nice chap and I can remember another plant just around the other side of the isle of dogs but cant remember the name.


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## Barry Man

There have been photographs of almost all of these ships in _Coastal Shipping magazine over the last few years._


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## Gareth Jones

Did'nt the Bow Queen sink in the mouth of the Thames during the late 60's ? If I remember correctly with the loss of the Master and his wife and two crew members ? She must have been subsequently salvaged or was she replaced ?


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## kenneth crosby

my greatest memory of british dredging ,i was cook on the Bow Herald and we had skippers that were identical twinsoften worked back to back well i had great crack with one of them but came unstuck one morning when they had relieved each other without my knowledge ,it went a little bit like this , ellom skip you fat baldy bast**d what the F**k would you like for breakfast today is it the usual cholestorel killer and weight watchers special you fat g*t,expecting the usual crack well if your a cook crippen was innocent,i got it the other way ,who the f*****g h**l do you think your talking to so i replied you you , fat c**Tas any body told you youve only got one ars***e so ease up un it you fat get ,well the mouthfull of abuse and the signals i got from the chief engineer were enough to let me know id blew it , after a day or so we both saw the funny side of it and no grudge was held but i had to treat him with a bit more respect p,s, sacked the following trip one more for why i was sacked,


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## capital3

*Bowqueen*



Gareth Jones said:


> Did'nt the Bow Queen sink in the mouth of the Thames during the late 60's ? If I remember correctly with the loss of the Master and his wife and two crew members ? She must have been subsequently salvaged or was she replaced ?



See my Post about the Bowqueen sinking (there was only three people lost Mcgrattan, his wife and a Maltese Seaman who was found in the Galley when she was raised. There were 3 Crew and the Skippers Wife listed as missing but the 4th person was I, who luckily was at home watching the rescue on TV.


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## Gorhol

Hi all.

A couple of items that may be of interest, Dredger Bowbelle sank off the island of Madeira in 1996, renamed Bom Rei, this may have been covered elsewhere on SN. However this site has some good pictures of the wreck.

http://www.scuba-madeira.com/englisch/wrecks.html

Also, I stumbled across a transcript of the Woolwich radio transmissions from the night of the Marchioness incident.

http://www.marchioness-bowbelle.org.uk/do***ents/pdf's/COR_00410.pdf

Regards
Gor


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## tonya54

now i am on welsh piper i have been on sand kite


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## smartcar

booma said:


> I can remember another plant just around the other side of the isle of dogs but cant remember the name.


Union Wharf, dreadful berth to get on to, almost as bad as Orchard  When I was first made up to Master with South Coast I went on to the Bow Trader (taking over from Eddie Sprunks) then later on to the Bowknight - renamed Sand Kite.

Peter


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## mickconnolley

i did the maiden voyage on the bow knight under ralp story well nice skipper and a good crew.Sailed from cardiff to dordrech via the ship wash bank


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## taffos

My father Graham Sommerfield was mate later Master on Bowstar, BowLine Bowcrest working from Bowles wharf in the late 70's


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## gert2012

capital3 said:


> Anyone have any info on British Dredging and their Ships. I was Chief Engineer of the Bow Queen in the 60s and would love to see some photos of her.
> 
> All the Ships in the Fleet started with "Bow=====. The Bow Belle was the Dredger that ran over the Marchioness on the Thames with a great loss of life.


the video: http://www.isaris.nl/ppm/dredging/index.php?movie=FcuOMMxZHfE


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## Rob Pithers

Tried to watch that. Afraid I couldn't watch such a sad end to a ship I had the 'pleasure' of sailing in (directly pre-Marchioness, there but for the Grace of God go I ). She wasn't a bad ship, or badly crewed, just the wrong place at the wong time.
Rob


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## ixion

Does anyone have any recollection of the Bowherald and Bowknight ? being laid up in the River Blackwater in the late 1970s or early 1980s ? (See http://www.merseamuseum.org.uk/mmshipping.php )


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## NICK_XACT

NICK_XACT said:


> Hi, you just made the old man's day. sorry did not get you name. if you or anyone has some pics of the crews/ships it would be great if you could send me some _(email address removed as per site policy please use PM to make intial contact)_ as i am trying to put togeather a scrap book type thing for my dad. The only time i see the old (82)fella smile these days is when we are chatting about the times on board and the stuff that went on!
> 
> Thanks again as its has made his day
> 
> Best Regards
> Nick Lines
> [email protected]


Well me beloved dad has left port for the last time at the ripe old age of 87 years 11 months - full ahead chief and god bless xxx


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## Dave Hayes

I worked as an engineer mainly at Orchard Wharf back in the 70's. I knew Ossie Osman well and remember the crane drivers Sammy and Bill Bailey, who were based at Orchard Wharf. Ron was the other crane driver based at West Ferry Rd. Had many beers with both who were good card players. The place was ran by an ex copper Jim Barrett and I was still employed when the company was taken over. 

I remember working with three fitters, who worked on all the ships, Pete Baggot, Bob Hobbs and Ron Greenwood. 

The guys in the office were Brian Dunn, Alan Champness and Mr Griffiths.

We was made redundant in 1983 when Thames Ship Repair was formed and we was based in KG5 dock where I saw the first plane land on the road between where the warehouses used to stand.

After about one year the firm moved to a new yard at Chatham docks, where we parted company. I would be interested if anyone has photos of the two wharves.


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## roverj

My grandad billy Patterson was engineer on the bowline 50/60s never at home on school holidays I remember two steam dredgers from bowles delorane & sunfold


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## DURANGO

I was AB in the Bowpride in the late 60,s


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## capital3

*MV Bowqueen*



Gareth Jones said:


> Did'nt the Bow Queen sink in the mouth of the Thames during the late 60's ? If I remember correctly with the loss of the Master and his wife and two crew members ? She must have been subsequently salvaged or was she replaced ?


Hi Gareth. No the Bowqueen sank off Orfordness in the North Sea and not the Mouth of the Thames. The survivors were picked up by the Harwich Lifeboat and taken into Harwich, so were a long way from the Thames. As I explained previously, at the time of this happening I was 2nd Engineer on the Bowquen, but had missed that trip as I was on leave at home in Cardiff. She was on the bottom for about 6 weeks before being lifted and taken to Rotterdam and refitted where I stood by her as Chief Engineer as Cliff Dorman had retired.


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## capital3

*Sunfold*

I don't know how old you are but if you can remember the Sunfold you must be over 90. Sunfold was the founder or Bowles Sand and Gravel Company's first ship ie George Bowles Senior. His house in Lisvane Cardiff was named after this ship. Before he had a dredger he used to row out from Cardiff on the tide towing a Barge. He would wait for the Tide to ebb and then jump overboard and shovel sand into the Barge by hand. Then wait for the flow and row back and then empty the Barge by hand. They don't make them like that any more.


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## ChasH

*chasH*



RayJordandpo said:


> I recall a dredger mate from Hull called Ronnie Gawthorpe. I was with him in Westminster Dredging or South Coast Shipping, I can't remember. He also went on the anchor handling tugs in the North Sea for either Theriot or Seaspan, there again I can't remember which.
> Ray Jordan


Hi Ray I was with Westminster on the Hamble job, Marchwood & in Sweden chas


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## roverj

Dear capital3 re sunfold I am sure the delorane came before sun fold I was on the bowline aged ten with my grandad billy Patterson towing the delorane to Newport for scrapping the bowcrest was coming down the Usk what a sight bowline and bowcrest heading for the flatholm remember it well by the way only 68


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## capital3

*Sunfold*

I think you have the wrong dates. All the ships names starting with BOW[were not built before the Sunfold. The Sunfold was built in the 1930s at least 20 years before George Bowles started having ships built, He first started buying other Sand and Gravel Companies in Cardiff namely Griffiths Sand and Gravel who at that time had 2 ships the Isca and the Instow both registered in Newport. The only other Sand and Gravel Company in those days was Hoveringham who had one ship the Sand Galore. All the Londoin based ships either worked out of Battersea of Orchard Wharf in Poplar. The only other Bowship to work in London for a short spell was the Bowstar (Ray Smart was the Master) but she worked mostly in the Bristol Channel as did the other smaller ships.
You know the Bowles Family involved hands on with the Company were Mr George Bowles Senior. Mr Richard Bowles and Mr Mostyn Bowles
][/B]


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## Vilis

My father worked with Graham Summerfield - he was a pilot, then a member of Penarth RNLI. I Last saw him when he lived in Lavernock Park. Believe he went into a retirement home a few years back. Great sense of humour!


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## Vilis

Anybody remember my dad, Vilis Kuksa? He was know as Billy Stone 'cos few people could pronounce his name. He worked on many of the Bow ships, mainly Crest, Queen, Pride. Often coasting or away for six weeks, home for two.


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## hoppy 23

There were 4 brothers Fred,Les,George and Tom. Fred and George were both masters, Les was also at sea and ended his days as harbour master in Porthcawl, I sailed with Tom on the Bowstar


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## Steve macsweeney

capital3 said:


> Anyone have any info on British Dredging and their Ships. I was Chief Engineer of the Bow Queen in the 60s and would love to see some photos of her.
> 
> All the Ships in the Fleet started with "Bow=====. The Bow Belle was the Dredger that ran over the Marchioness on the Thames with a great loss of life.


K

I worked


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## Steve macsweeney

capital3 said:


> Anyone have any info on British Dredging and their Ships. I was Chief Engineer of the Bow Queen in the 60s and would love to see some photos of her.
> 
> Aged 18 I worked my passage back from Jersey on this boat in 65.
> I don't recall the skipper as a particularly nice guy, although I stayed on as cook, in reality I only helped Margaret his wife, who went down on the boat 4 weeks after I was sacked( I was no cook!) So maybe he did me a favour as the cook on thar fateful night went down also.
> Was the first engineer called Kent?
> 
> All the Ships in the Fleet started with "Bow=====. The Bow Belle was the Dredger that ran over the Marchioness on the Thames with a great loss of life.


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## Chris23

I am a cousin of Mrs McGrattan - Edna not Margaret? I am interested in the family history. I asked if she often went on voyages with her husband and was told no, that she was very seasick, that it was unusual for her to be aboard and there was maybe a reason for her to be on that trip? Does any of that sound right to you? Regards,

Christine Gatenby


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## Mr P. Kaye’s kid.

PETER KAYE
did you know of a chief engineer called Peter kaye? He was my dad. He worked on Bow Herald which I believe became Sand Kestrel. I have some photos of the dredger. He would have been 73 this year but sadly passed away in 2005. I loved listening to some of his stories about being out at sea. I would love to hear from anyone who knew my dad. He was my hero. Thank you for reading my post.


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## Charles Mattress

saw st giles steam dredger ...north scotland long ago


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## UncleJoe

Steve macsweeney said:


> K
> 
> I worked on British Dredging in 1972 , my first dredger was on the Moderator, then over the years on the Bow Belle, Bow Fleet , Bow Trader , Bow Sprite, Bow Herald, Instow , Peterson.
> I was an A B , I had an Uncle in the fleet , he was a Jordy , his name was Joe Kennedy, he was a Cook , and I had a relation on the Bow Fleet , he was third Mate , if I can be of any service to you , as I have photos of the old dredgers . Regards . Philip


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