# Grovehill a fishing smack, then a ketch ? owned by Craven



## Wendy Owen (Jun 15, 2010)

Hello Everyone
I am new to this website, so Hello.

I have been researching the *Craven family* history of Goole and Hull for some months now on behalf of a Craven relative in Australia. Some interesting facts have been found, but I am stuck on a big query and that is their vessel the *Grovehill *which was a ketch/schooner. Now it is believed that this Grovehill could have been a *fishing smack* then sold to Craven and re-rigged.
The Grovehill under the master of JW Craven was a Merchant Vessel and their is a good painting on line held at Goole Library and Museum by Reuben Chappell and she is flying the Red Ensign.

http://www.eastriding.gov.uk/cultur...hp?t=objects&type=all&f=&s=grovehill&record=2

There is also a painting by TG Purvis of a Grovehill in a private collection (no image) believed to be the same vessel and painted in London again with Master JW Craven.

The Craven family of Hull donated a large amount of photos and the painting to Goole Library of the Craven clan of Hull and Goole but with no written details.


"Members of the Craven family on board the ketch GROVEHILL. Back John Craven"

http://www.web-exhibition.net/details.aspx?id=1038

Crewmen onboard the ketch GROVEHILL - J W Craven (L) with crewman, thought to be ketch GROVEHILL

http://www.web-exhibition.net/details.aspx?id=1039

Here too is brief details of the letter from Lily Craven to her father John W Craven

http://www.eastriding.gov.uk/cultur...?t=objects&type=all&f=&s=lily+craven&record=0


Can anyone shed any light on a Grovehill fishing vessel or the Grovehill ketch/schooner please.

Kind Regards
Wendy Owen


----------



## riversea (Jul 19, 2007)

This sounds like the GROVEHILL built at the Grovehill shipyard, Beverley by Cochrane, Hamilton & Cooper under yard number 4 in 1894 for John Hellyer, Hull. I presume this was the Hellyer family engaged in fishing and indeed she appears in LR 1905 still noted as a trawler but owned by J.W.Craven, Hull ... possibly she had as you say been re-rigged as a ketch for commercial use but LR had not made an amendment.
Length 79.4ft, beam 20.3ft, depth to keel 10.1ft, 90grt, iron hull.
I don't have anything for her later that this 1905 reference.


----------



## Wendy Owen (Jun 15, 2010)

Hello Riversea
Thank you greatly for the info, looks certain to be the Grovehill I am searching for and her measurements too, fantastic. (==D)
I did wonder if she had been built at Grovehill Shipyard, crossed my mind several times, but could not find anything to confirm it.
Once all the info is gleaned of her I will download onto here. She did become a Merchant Vessel along with her crew some of which I have found WW1 Merchant Shipping Medal Cards for, as yet I have not paid to obtain the details, again when I do I will put the info on here for the benefit of others.
After months of trawling the web, eventually she has been found, thank you very much. (Thumb)
Wendy


----------



## Roger Griffiths (Feb 10, 2006)

Hello,
GROVEHILL official number 91397 left the British register in 1912. Her registration do***ents can be obtained from the National archive at Kew. These will tell you all the details of her owners and changes of use together with any alterations of tonnage etc. It will also tell you why she was no longer on the British register. Sinking, scrapping, sold to foreign interests etc.
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/...2&CATLN=7&Highlight=,GROVEHILL&accessmethod=0

Her crew lists for the period can be obtained from the Memorial University of Newfoundland. Years 1909 and 1907 are at Kew. Search via official number.
Attached her details 1888/89.

I suspect the GROVEHILL you have medal cards for is a different vessel. Possibly GROVEHILL O/N123158 built in 1908


Roger


----------



## Wendy Owen (Jun 15, 2010)

Hello Roger
Many thanks for providing such valuable information. (==D)
I was looking at the website for the Newfoundland doc's yesterday, I told someone, I bet her records are there.
Although I did search the NA, nothing came up for Grovehill, perhaps I had not accessed the correct site initially.
Thank you (Thumb)
Wendy


----------



## riversea (Jul 19, 2007)

p.s. yes the build date was 1884 not 1894 as previous reply. The Craven connections suggests this is the right vessel?


----------



## Wendy Owen (Jun 15, 2010)

Hi Riversea
Thank you.

Just found her Crew Lists on the Newfoundland Maritime site, very expensive to order copies though.

For the benefit of others this is the weblink, 

http://www.mun.ca/mha/holdings/searchcombinedcrews.php
in the box *Official Number type in 91397* then submit, the following will then come up....

http://www.mun.ca/mha/holdings/viewcombinedcrews.php?Official_No=91397

you will see a hyperlink *(Types of Agreements and Accounts)*, click on there to obtain the codes.
you will also read at the bottom* Ordering Crew Agreements*, click on there then click on *Additional Information *weblink at bottom for fees and charges.

Wendy


----------



## Wendy Owen (Jun 15, 2010)

Thank you for your help in locating this vessel for me, greatly appreciated.

For anyone interested in the *Craven* family history you can read this on Rootschat via my thread @

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=424437.msg2893972#msg2893972

Kind Regards
Wendy


----------



## Roger Griffiths (Feb 10, 2006)

Wendy Owen said:


> Hello Riversea
> She did become a Merchant Vessel along with her crew some of which I have found WW1 Merchant Shipping Medal Cards for.
> Wendy


Hello Again,
The cards you mention are for individuals who's surname was Craven. They where not crew members of GROVEHILL 91397. As already mentioned she was removed from the British register in 1912. This would check out with her crew agreements from MUN which only go up until 1911.

I looked at you link to rootsweb. I note you had the following list of vessels there.

Update, information for Vessels and Owned and Registered too:-

Thomas Craven 
Laurel (Schooner - registered to Craven 1856)
Wells (Schooner - registered to Craven 1856)

Sarah Craven nee Burkill of Wakefield
Brothers (Sloop - registered to Craven 1837)

James Craven of Wakefield I think this is the Boat Builder of Wakefield
Admiral (Schooner - registered to Craven 1849)
Sloop (Sloop - registered to Craven 1849)
Caroline & Elizabeth (Sloop - registered to Craven 1843)
Crocus (Schooner - registered to Craven 1851)
Eliza & Mary (Schooner - registered to Craven 1849)
Friends (Schooner - registered 1849)
John & Mary (Sloop - registered to Craven 1853)
Patience (Sloop - registered to Craven 1855)
Samuels & Eliza (Schooner - registered to Craven 1848)
Superior (Sloop - registered to Craven 1850)
William & Mary (Sloop - registered 1843)


May I ask where you obtained this information?
I have looked at the entries for just three of the vessels in Lloyds Register of Shipping for the relevant years, plus and minus a year. The details are at odds with your findings.

Roger


----------



## Wendy Owen (Jun 15, 2010)

Hi Roger
Yes I am aware now that the Medal Cards will not be for the Grovehill, I will correct this on my thread, thank you.

As for the info re the vessels, these came to me from a contact that had the info from various accounts. I will email you the details as I don't want to embarrass the lady or the organisation. I know that if you have correct facts she will amend her details.
I myself have not checked any of those vessels details. I am most intrigued to know what is correct and what is not, so if you want to go ahead and add amendments on here that is fine by me, after all we aim to obtain and confirm the truth.

Wendy


----------



## Roger Griffiths (Feb 10, 2006)

Hello Wendy,
Penny's dropped! Maybe these vessels were inland waterways vessels, Humber Keels etc and would therefore not be listed as seagoing vessels in Lloyds register.
Mabe this website could expand
http://www.waterwaysmuseum.org.uk/ 

Roger


----------



## Wendy Owen (Jun 15, 2010)

Hello again Roger
Most likely keels, I know they travelled both inland and coastal waters but not checked which boats etc did which as yet.

I will contact the lady who gave me the info and ask if she knows what type these boats were.

Kind Regards
Wendy


----------



## riversea (Jul 19, 2007)

The Waterways Museum at Goole does have some 'family' record cards as a result of research, contact the Museum Officer, Rachel Walker via the website mentioned by Roger (I am a former trustee there).
They also hold extracts from the Goole Shipping Register through the 1800's as extracted from the Customs records at Beverley by Ron Gosney of Knottingley.


----------



## Wendy Owen (Jun 15, 2010)

Thanks Riversea, will contact Rachel and ask her.

Wendy


----------

